========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 02:43:22 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Sid Pullinger Subject: Bee space MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 <<<<< Most of us have read enough to know what a 'bee space' is, but I've NEVER= seen it referred to as a 'bee way'. I suspect that lots of knowlegeable beekeepers were wondering what you meant. Maybe it's a difference of terminology between the UK and the US. ???>>>>> I detect a strong note of censure in Michael Reddells' letter. Space or= way, we use either term. From what followed in my letter it was clear th= at way and space meant the same thing. Here we use the term crown board fo= r the american cover board. I was not being sarcastic or unpleasant when I said "If only some people would read a book". I meant just that. Most of the elementary requests for help that appear on this list are already answered in any good book = on bees. Many people treat beekeeping too lightly. It is not a simple hobby. I= t is a craft and a science and needs study. In over sixty years of beekeeping ( I started in 1930) I t have taught and trained a large numbe= r of aspiring beekeepers. I have also seen far too many people fall by the= wayside. They visit a show, are fascinated by the observation hive and t= he masses of honey. They then rush out, buy bees and equipment and get started. Within two years it is all over. Perhaps a severe stinging due= to inexperience, rows with the neighbours, little or no honey, inability = to prevent swarms and so on Then bees and equipment go on the market or worse, are left neglected. All rather sad. When we are approached by someone wanting to start we advise caution. We have an extensive library= so offer reading material, extend membership of a local association (we have them all over the country) and depending on the time of the year, co= me to monthly lectures or join a nearby friendly beekeeper for practical experience in handling and inspecting. After that they are in a much bett= er position to judge whether beekeeping is for them or not. I realise that= in the wide open spaces of America some beginners may be on their own. I= still think it is unwise to go to all the expense of starting without gaining a little practical experience and book knowledge first. = Sidpul@compuserve.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 22:51:16 -0800 Reply-To: beeman@Alaska.NET Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom & Carol Elliott Organization: Home Subject: Re: Acceptance of new queen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit beeman wrote: > Some strains of bees will not accept different Queens from other races. For instance, I have a lot of hybrid bees that will not accept a Buckfast queen if their lives depended on it. It's strange but its true. > Jeff, I have requeened an established laying worker queen, simply by having a queen in a narrow all screen cage which fits between the frames easily for some weeks. If you plan well enough ahead so the queenless time matches a good period to go broodless for a while, I believe you can put any queen in any hive. (Stress "I believe. . .) Once they stop acting agressive to the caged queen they seem to be willing to accept her. Maybe give them a few days longer. Let me know if this works for you, should you try it. -- "Test everything. Hold on to the good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21) Tom Elliott Chugiak, Alaska U.S.A. beeman@alaska.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 01:31:37 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Extractor In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19971001054738.0067b13c@preferred.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT >I am going to motorize my hand cranked extractor. What should the rpm >of the extractor be? I believe that I wrote an article about using a furnace fan motor (2 speed) to convert a 4 frame reversible to power some years ago here. It worked well enough to extract over 100 hives efficiently. Try a search and let me know if you can't find it. Allen --- You can search the BEE-L archives by sending email to LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU saying SEARCH BEE-L topic Substitute a key word or two for the word 'topic' above Try it -- You'll Like it! --- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 10:15:40 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Has anybody on this list ever kept other bee species Hi All Just thought I would ask if anybody on the list has ever kept any other bee species? Apis cerana?? Tried robbing the open nesting species? Also to those in Australia - stingless bees? Just interested to hear about them other than from books. Keep well Garth --- Garth Cambray Kamdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Apis melifera capensis Grahamstown 800ml annual precipitation 6139 Eastern Cape South Africa Phone 27-0461-311663 3rd year Biochemistry/Microbiology Rhodes University In general, generalisations are bad. Interests: Flii's and Bees. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 03:41:05 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Bee Software MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Since a number have requested that I share my MS EXCEL template used for beeyard management for examination, I have taken a look at it, removed personal data, and created a template called yards.xlt, designed to be used with MS Excel 5.0. It is 120K or so in size and *may or may not* be able to be converted to work on other high end spreadsheets. For this reason, please don't request it unless you actually think you have software that might run it, since it will be useless to you if you don't. It is designed for our own use (for about 90 yards) and likely is not of any use to anyone else without alteration. I offer it for free use, alteration, discussion and constructive criticism (please) and, of course totally without warranty or promise of performance. (As you have no doubt recently discovered I am not an infallable genius when it comes to predicting what computers may or may not do ;) so *caveat emptor*). I'd be glad to discuss the uses of this template and answer any questions about it if there are any after consulting the yard.gif ( of which everyone should now have ample copies ) for ideas on how we fill it in. One feature that may not be immediately obvious is the several 'views' that are available from the MS Excel view|view manager menu, resulting in distinctly different printouts. Our field people use the printouts as guides to what has been done in the past and update the information in the field by writing directly over the old. Each crew has a copy. After each round and every yard has been visited, data is updated in the computer and new sheets -- possibly with different columns showing -- is printed in landscape mode in colour on 8-1/2 X 14 paper. Some fiddling is usually required to get it to fit on the page efficiently after column changes. I regret that I shall have to offer this file by a slower method than previous files, since I am now checking the outgoing mail friom the robot rather than having it send in the background, so don't be surprised if it takes a few days to get your files from this location. Please do not keep requesting a copy if one does not come back immediately. To get the template, send email with SEND YARDS.XLT *in the subject line* to allend@internode.net On the matter of Bidata: I have not received any email at all from any users who have actually paid for it or who use it regularly and recommend it. I did however receive several messages from those who have looked at it and not decided to use it for various personal reasons. I have not received any further reports of installation errors -- and in fact have heard about several successful installs along with only one report of a Win95 computer publically demo-ing Bidata at a show having to be rebooted periodically. (also some excuses for that) I now expect that all those who gave me a hard time for making sure it is safe for them will download a copy, use it every day -- and send Jorn $200 US. Keep me posted, Jorn. Allen ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 08:02:53 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Alan Coble Subject: yard maintenance Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII I started beekeeping this year. I didn't have problems keeping the grass cut around the hives in the beginning. I would mow early (7AM) and the bees didn't mind it. However, I now have difficulty cutting the grass with the now established hives. I am aware you shouldn't hit the hive with the mower. Does the sound, vibration or smell of the gasoline lawnmower cause them to become angry? What is the best time and method to cut the grass around hives? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 08:13:00 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "George W.D. Fielder" Subject: Re: basement hives? BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU ++++ Hi Bill You wrote ... >.....use bee therapy for their arthritis. .... question to the list about anyone's >experience with keeping hives indoors during the winter. >Any advice for these good folks? I have done just this with quite good success. Basement area should be kept in complete darkness and as unheated as possible (mine was always above freezing but cool). I fed with sugar syrup all winter. I collected the bees with a bee vacuum I had made that sucked up the bees and deposited them undamaged into a glass jar. I kept the hive screened so that bees would not fly to the flashlight when I entered the room. However I learn that bees do not see red light so will be using an old red photography safelight this winter. You or your colleagues (or anybody) are welcome to email me directly if you have any questions since many on the list may not be very interested in this 'sideline'. Good Luck george.fielder@hydro.on.ca ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 08:34:48 -0400 Reply-To: ajwelk@ibm.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Al Welk Subject: Re: Extractor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit beeman wrote: > > At 03:20 PM 9/28/97 -0400, you wrote: > >I am going to motortize my hand cranked extractor. What should the rpm > >of the extractor be? > >-- > >Ken Coyle > >If you can't fix it with duct tape, why bother? > >kcoyle@hookup.net > >http://www.hookup.net/~kcoyle > > > Dear friend, I'm not sure you are aware of the problems associated with > "home improvement" on your hand cranked extractor. #1 Most motors have only > 1 speed, therefore damaging the frames and combs because of the suddent jolt > given them. I once saw one that a friend did that resembled an air plane. I > was afraid to go near it! > > Jeff > Jeff Barnett > beeman@preferred.com > retired(for now) queen producer. Well I'm glad Jeff wasn't around when Columbus was getting ready to sail !-). PUN INTENDED... Ken Jeff is correct in that you can't just hook a motor up to the extractor. You will need a motor of 1/2 to 1hp at least to handle the torque. I would check you bee equipment supplier catalog to see what size they use on the store bought ones. The hard part is in varing the speed. You can try something like a variable pitch sheave. It is a pully that opens and closes to vary the speed by about 30%. Most of the ones I see in catalogs use a set screw or flange to set the speed one time. You need to find one that can be adjusted while on. Good luck. The next ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 08:44:38 -0400 Reply-To: ajwelk@ibm.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Al Welk Subject: Re: yard maintenance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alan Coble wrote: > > I started beekeeping this year. I didn't have problems keeping the grass > cut around the hives in the beginning. I would mow early (7AM) and the > bees didn't mind it. However, I now have difficulty cutting the grass with > the now established hives. I am aware you shouldn't hit the hive with the > mower. Does the sound, vibration or smell of the gasoline lawnmower cause > them to become angry? What is the best time and method to cut the grass > around hives? I work with a friend 180+/- hives. He used, emphasis on the past tense, a small two cycle line trimmer. He claimed the bees would eat him alive. I wnet to help hime one day and brought a largee 4 cycle line trimmer and the bees didn't care all that much. One hive out of the 200 at the time got a little uspet. We smoked the hives if they started to show signs of getting upset. I don't know for sure but my trimmer has a much lower pitch and is quieter than the small ones. I'm not pushing a brand but it was a ROYBI that has interchangable heads. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 21:35:18 +0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rimantas Zujus Subject: Mediums Vs Deeps Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Halo, everybody I wander if anyone hasn't trouble with wintering using mediums. We = living in latitude 54.5 dg. North (24 dg East ) do have. Last 2 years a = frost almost reached a mark of 30 dg. Celsius. My "bee friend" often = used to lose his bees. The reason was simple. Bees ate honey in low = frames and could not find the upper ones. Maybe, they occurred at the = top of the first frame right while frost? They died with plenty of food = above. He tried to diminish a space among lower and upper frames. = Nothing helped. He refused mediums and now has only deeps. Such a story. Any suggestions? A small bee keeper Rimantas Zujus Lithuania ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 10:15:36 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eunice Wonnacott Subject: Re: Fumidil-B MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Andy: Have we moved to fish stories now......... ------Eunice ---- > From: Andy Nachbar > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Re: Fumidil-B > Date: September 27, 1997 1:24 AM > > > Hello Andy and All: > > The info I typed is taken off the packing list on bottle. I > myself >use it twice a year. Spring and Fall. > > If it works for you use it.... If I had all money I have spent on FUMIDIL-B > I would be able to retire, as it is I do have all the empty bottles I have > used lined up on top a 12 foot block wall inside my wood shop which is > 40x80 and they extend around the building. A very impressive sight to > any beekeeper who knows the cost of this drug. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 22:27:25 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: DThor2b@AOL.COM Subject: Re: record-keeping packages I just received a Beekeeper's Program from Ron Miksha of Calgary, AB. The Mailing address for the software is: Quick Learn Suite 8208 8208, 315 Southampton Dr. SW Calgary, AB T2W 2T6 Web site, where I found the information and ordered the package is: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Beekeeping Haven't had a chance to load and run the program yet so am not sure what all is covered. Will follow up when I have more information ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 14:56:22 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bernard Heymans Subject: Re: Mediums Vs Deeps Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi, In the mountains in France (unfortunatly I don't live there) people used to go twice a month to the hives... And then using a wood stick plyed drums on the hives. They wanted to make some disturbance.... But where very angry if anybody did any. I heard that for a old man living there. Any time you visit the world, search for hives, you will see various beekeeping behaviours. Bzzzzz BZZZ! Bernard. At 21:35 30/09/97 +0300, you wrote: >Halo, everybody > >I wander if anyone hasn't trouble with wintering using mediums. We living in latitude 54.5 dg. North (24 dg East ) do have. Last 2 years a frost almost reached a mark of 30 dg. Celsius. My "bee friend" often used to lose his bees. The reason was simple. Bees ate honey in low frames and could not find the upper ones. Maybe, they occurred at the top of the first frame right while frost? They died with plenty of food above. He tried to diminish a space among lower and upper frames. Nothing helped. He refused mediums and now has only deeps. > >Such a story. Any suggestions? > >A small bee keeper >Rimantas Zujus >Lithuania > > ********************************************************************* * Bernard Heymans bheymans@informix.com * * Informix Bruxelles tel -32-2 - 711 11 30 * * Support Contract Specialist fax -32-2 - 711.11.22 * ********************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 08:11:45 -0500 Reply-To: beeman52@worldnet.att.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ken Lawrence Subject: Re: yard maintenance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alan Coble wrote: > > I started beekeeping this year. I didn't have problems keeping the grass > cut around the hives in the beginning. I would mow early (7AM) and the > bees didn't mind it. However, I now have difficulty cutting the grass with > the now established hives. I am aware you shouldn't hit the hive with the > mower. Does the sound, vibration or smell of the gasoline lawnmower cause > them to become angry? What is the best time and method to cut the grass > around hives? Hello Alan Ken Lawrence here about 25 miles North of Kansas City Mo. I usually keep 6-10 hives in my side yard. I always start mowing on the opposite side of the yard and let the bees get use to the noise. I then mow right up beside the hiives. I do have a 24 inch piece of conveyor belting in front of the hives. Ken ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 09:19:35 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Verville Subject: Re: Extractor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ken Coyle wrote: > > I am going to motortize my hand cranked extractor. What should the rpm > of the extractor be? > -- > Ken Coyle > If you can't fix it with duct tape, why bother? > kcoyle@hookup.net > http://www.hookup.net/~kcoyle According to Rick at Maxant, his extractors max out at approximately 300 rpm (+ -). He also said that some of his more expensive extractors can reach 500 rpm but that speed is not needed. Dave Verville dverville@worldnet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 09:18:18 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Amy Dowd Subject: Re: Best of Bee Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Could someone please send me the Best of Bee-L instructions. I'm afraid I deleted it when I cleaned out my mail a few months ago. Thanks. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 09:44:23 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Debbie Hutchings Subject: Extractor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Everyone! I got this idea when I read your posts about extractors. What if you = put a switch on your motor, kinda like the dimmer switch you use on = lights? Maybe it could cut the power and make the motor run slower, = then as you turn up the switch the motor would increase in speed???? = I'm not electrically inclined, but it might work. Just my thoughts on = it. Debbie from Canada.. p.s. My apiarie now has a name, it's called HoneySuckle Apiaries. Just = regestered it with the government as a buisiness. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 07:13:10 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Extractor In-Reply-To: <34324368.791A@ibm.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT The hard part is in varing the speed. You can try something like a variable pitch sheave. It is a pully that opens and closes to vary the speed by about 30%. Most of the ones I see in catalogs use a set screw or flange to set the speed one time. You need to find one that can be adjusted while on. Good luck. Lovejoy 3410 Spring loaded pulley - 3/4" Bore Ratio is 2.1 -3.8 with and A belt or 2.2-3.7 with B belt. Cost $108.57 Canadian (~$80 US) I built 48 frame radials for use and sale for a few years using them as a transmission. Worked beautifully. Allen ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 10:22:30 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Harker Subject: Re: Extractor In a message dated 97-10-01 09:40:55 EDT, you write: > I got this idea when I read your posts about extractors. What if you put a > switch on your motor, kinda like the dimmer switch you use on lights? Maybe > it could cut the power and make the motor run slower, then as you turn up the > switch the motor would increase in speed???? I'm not electrically inclined, > but it might work. Just my thoughts on it. > CAUTION! Do not use a light dimmer on a motor. The type of dimmer commonly used on lights will burn out and possibly damage the motor. They are not designed for "inductive loads" which is what a motor puts out. You can buy something called a Variac to vary motor speeds. They are large variable transformers and quite expensive when new but have been made for many years. A used Variac to handle a 1/2 HP motor should be $50 to $100 if you can find one. (Try the Web) There are also variable speed motors and controllers both AC and DC but they are usually several hundred dollars. The two speed furnace motor sounds like the most economical idea. Tom Harker (electronics design & hobby beekeeper) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 12:46:10 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Wout Subject: Re: SEND YARDS.GIF MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >I would appreciate if you would send spreadsheet picture. I'm interested= in >what data >you deem important. Is there any explanation for the many instances of yards.gif that now clutter my hard drive? They came from the list and I can't (don't want t= o) believe that this was done intentionally. Ted Wout Red Oak, TX, USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 14:05:25 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rui Carlos Peruquetti Organization: Universidade Federa de Vicosa - Minas Gerais - Brazil Subject: Research MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We are interested in know how the users of Internet get informations through the net and how they use the informations they get. We count on your colaboration and in the future we will publish the results. Please, send the answers to rcarlos@alunos.ufv.br Thank you. -------------------------------------------------- 1. Have you ever heard about: ( ) HTML ( ) PDF ( ) Download ( ) FTP ( ) WWW 2. How do you get information in the net? ( ) e-mail ( ) WWW ( ) others 3. What do you use the information you got in the net for? ( ) work ( ) culture ( ) school ( ) others 4. Are you worried about the quality of the information available in the Internet? ( ) yes ( ) no 5. Are you worried about the problem of virus passed through Internet? ( ) yes ( ) no 6. As a way of obtention and change of informations, you consider the Internet: ( ) great ( ) good ( ) regular ( ) poor 7. Do you consider the problem of copy rights important or do you think it limits the use of Internet as a way of publishing works in the net? ( ) yes ( ) no -- Rui Carlos Peruquetti Universidade Federal de Vicosa Departamento de Biologia Geral 36571-000 - Vicosa - MG - Brazil ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 12:08:07 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Periodic Post: Best of BEE-L MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Want to reduce your incoming email? Want to avoid unpleasantness and irrelevance and still follow BEE-L? Subscribing to the 'Best of Bee' list will bring you only selected and edited posts from BEE-L. This is a reduction of anywhere from 10 to 90% in mail flow (about an 80% reduction in the past week). Best of Bee is best suited to experienced or professional beekeepers and others who wish to avoid very basic discussions, chatter, flames, misdirected posts, long quotes and 'me too' responses but still track the significant activity on the BEE-L mailing list and also be able to participate in discussion by posting to BEE-L when desired. How to receive Best of Bee: 1.) Send email to HoneyBee@systronix.net, saying JOIN BESTOFBEE allend@internode.net (Use your actual email address to which you wish to have the list sent in place of 'allend@internode.net' in the above example). 2.) If you are a BEE-L subscriber and want to turn off BEE-L -- without losing the privilege of posting to BEE-L in response to the messages received on Best of Bee, send email to LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU saying SET BEE-L NOMAIL There are currently over 340 subscribers to Best of Bee. For more information about Best of Bee, send email to bees@systronix.net, saying SEND BESTBEE in the subject line. You will receive a text file in return. For those who want to know more about the selection and editorial policies of Best of Bee, send email to bees@systronix.net, saying SEND CRITERIA in the subject line. Allen ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 13:17:16 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Patrick M. O'Hearn" Subject: Re: Record Keeping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Allen, Since I have turned off Bee-L I tend to forget its there . Yep, you are probably right that I should have sent it to Bee-L rather than directly to Best of Bee through you. Sorry, wont happen again . Hope your honeyflow was good this year. Keep up the good work filtering out all the drivel. thanks Pat ---------- > From: Excerpts from BEE-L > To: Patrick M. O'Hearn > Subject: Re: Record Keeping > Date: Tuesday, September 30, 1997 4:42 PM > > I wonder if you intended to send this to BEE-L? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 15:25:56 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: beeman Subject: Re: Extractor Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:44 AM 10/1/97 -0400, you wrote: >Hi Everyone! > >I got this idea when I read your posts about extractors. What if you put a switch on your motor, kinda like the dimmer switch you use on lights? Maybe it could cut the power and make the motor run slower, then as you turn up the switch the motor would increase in speed???? I'm not electrically inclined, but it might work. Just my thoughts on it. > >Debbie from Canada.. > >p.s. My apiarie now has a name, it's called HoneySuckle Apiaries. Just regestered it with the government as a buisiness. Hello Debbie, I thought of that as well, but when speaking with an older gentleman that was very mechanically inclined about it, he said that would burn out most motors because you must have minimum amount of voltage to run the motor. Does anyone know more about this? Jeff Jeff Barnett beeman@preferred.com retired(for now) queen producer. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 16:27:46 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Mike Swintosky ([330] 471-3128)" Subject: Glass Jars I am looking for a source of 8, 16 and 32 ounce jars that leave adequate room for a label. Canning jars would be okay, but thus far I haven't found the 8 ounce size without quilting or some other pattern or raised lettering that gets in the way. I would like all 3 size jars to have a similar appearance. Does anyone who know a source for all plain jars or jars that leave at least a 3" wide area unobstructed? Thanks, Mike Swintosky Dellroy, Ohio ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 23:44:54 +0200 Reply-To: pimapis@rls.roknet.ro Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: marian pintilie Organization: pimapis Subject: short notice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hello again Jorn maybe you do not noticed , but there are two other problems with MS exchange ( except the annoing attachement), there are no quotes when you quote a message and lines are not wraped. I took a look at Exchange and I suppose that I know how to avoid that. You are a programmer so you could be able to solve that. So if you want to correct these bugs and do not have how tocheck if it worked, youcan send a probe to me, and I'll reply about results. Regards. Costel ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 21:03:01 +1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Organization: Bay of Plenty Polytechnic Subject: Re: Extractor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > According to Rick at Maxant, his extractors max out at approximately > 300 rpm (+ -). He also said that some of his more expensive extractors > can reach 500 rpm but that speed is not needed. My physics can't handle this, but strictly speaking, it may not be the RPM you need (or at least not only). The other factor relates to the radius, the distance from the extractor's centre to the frame. Speed of radial acceleration, or something like that? In practical terms, the larger the extractor's container, the better: if you spin a frames in a small diameter at the same number of RPM they will tear apart... (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- home nickw@wave.co.nz (/ work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz NZ Beekeeping http://www.beekeeping.co.nz Autoresponder info@beekeeping.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 15:04:16 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Patrick M. O'Hearn" Subject: mispost MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello all, My apologies to the list for missending a private message to the list rather than directly to the intended party. Patrick M. O'Hearn ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 22:58:23 +-200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=F8rn_Johanesson?= Subject: SV: Bee Software MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ---------- Fra: Allen Dick[SMTP:allend@internode.net] Sendt: 1. oktober 1997 11:41 Til: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Emne: Re: Bee Software send Jorn $200 US Why not visit the new homepage from EDBi at http://www.wn.com.au/apimo = and se the facts also about the prices and the software ( as example the = multilingual facility) It is not $200 for all of you, and the money is not mine, but goes to = the EDBi foundation, so that It will be possible to go on developing on = this software. Remember EDBi is also host for beekeeping activities in = development countries I will ask on the general meeting, the EDBi to lower the price because I = can not make the decision. best regards Jorn ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 18:50:42 -0400 Reply-To: ajwelk@ibm.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Al Welk Subject: Re: Glass Jars MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mike Swintosky ([330] 471-3128) wrote: > > I am looking for a source of 8, 16 and 32 ounce jars that leave adequate > room for a label. Canning jars would be okay, but thus far I haven't found > the 8 ounce size without quilting or some other pattern or raised lettering > that gets in the way. I would like all 3 size jars to have a similar > appearance. Does anyone who know a source for all plain jars or jars that > leave at least a 3" wide area unobstructed? > > Thanks, > Mike Swintosky > Dellroy, Ohio There are many places that provide such a product. The Walter Kelly Co. is one that come to mind. They have the glass queenline jars at &7.50 to $5.75 per case (502)242-2012. Bushy Moutain also has the honey jars and the hexegon jars 1-800-233-7929. As a credit to many of the vendors in the bee industry. I have tried to beat their prices by going directly to bottle manufactors and suppliers and most bee catalogs are cheaper. Al Welk-Atlanta, GA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 21:33:41 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Verville Subject: Re: Extractor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Woodworker's supply sells a "Router Speed Control" for about $40 US. It says it can handle any 120V DC or universal motor up to 15 amps. Part Number 821-539 1-800-645-9292 Dave Verville dverville@worldnet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 23:27:59 -0700 Reply-To: vcoppola@epix.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Re: Extractor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just a couple comments on the speed control disscussion. Its been suggested that variacs or router speed controllers can be used. They can if the motor is an AC/DC (universal motor) or a DC motor. Some extractors such as certain Dadant models come with DC motors and are equiped with speed control. Most extractors come with the more common, and less expensive induction type motor. To speed regulate an induction motor you must change the frequency of the AC power. There are such regulators available but are quite expensive. Its much cheaper to use a mechanical method such as Allen suggested. Useing the wrong combination of speed control and motor may cause damage to the controller, the motor or both. So before you spend any money, be sure you know what type motor you are dealing with and be sure to select the proper controller. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 22:24:02 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Brenda Wishin Subject: Re: basement hives? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Help - we don't have a basement! We were thinking of something like an observation hive off the kitchen. Any ideas? We live in South Bend Indiana (near Notre Dame). My husband has MS and we are new to bees and Bee Venom Therapy. Everything is going great - so far. A local beekeeper "parked" his pollinator hives here for the winter, but they are getting harder to get since it's colder! ---------- > From: George W.D. Fielder > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Re: basement hives? > Date: Wednesday, October 01, 1997 7:13 AM > > BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > ++++ > > Hi Bill > You wrote ... > >.....use bee therapy for their arthritis. .... question to the list about > anyone's > >experience with keeping hives indoors during the winter. > >Any advice for these good folks? > > I have done just this with quite good success. Basement area should be > kept in complete darkness and as unheated as possible (mine was always > above freezing but cool). I fed with sugar syrup all winter. I collected > the bees with a bee vacuum I had made that sucked up the bees and deposited > them undamaged into a glass jar. I kept the hive screened so that bees > would not fly to the flashlight when I entered the room. However I learn > that bees do not see red light so will be using an old red photography > safelight this winter. You or your colleagues (or anybody) are welcome to > email me directly if you have any questions since many on the list may not > be very interested in this 'sideline'. > > Good Luck > george.fielder@hydro.on.ca ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 22:29:23 -0500 Reply-To: sholisky@winternet.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Scott Holisky Subject: Re: yard maintenance Comments: To: ajwelk@ibm.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Alan - I've found activity and season make a big difference as to the number of bees that "want to meet the lawnmower" or weedwacker. The ones that meet you half way are primed for a new queen...no mean pets in my life.:) Suit-up! Gloves and the whole nine yards! Get those weeds! :) Regards- Scott in warm Minnesota, USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 23:06:23 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave from Scranton Subject: Re: short notice Comments: To: marian pintilie In-Reply-To: <3432C456.3D26@rls.roknet.ro> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 1 Oct 1997, marian pintilie wrote: > > I took a look at Exchange and I suppose that I know how to avoid that. > You are a programmer so you could be able to solve that. The best way to fix the bugs in Exchange is to use Pegasus or Eudora... ****************************************************************************** Dave D. Cawley, Maitre d' | The Internet Cafe | Scranton, Pennsylvania | (717) 344-1969 | dave@scranton.com | ****************************************************************************** URL => http://www.scranton.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 08:17:35 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Trevor Weatherhead Subject: Re: Stingless bees Garth asked about stingless bees in Australia. Our most common one is the Trigona family. It is a social bee that is a little smaller thn a fly. It produces honey but it is not to my liking. The main reason, I believe, is that the Trigona do not have comb as such but honey pots. They make these pots out of a mixture of wax and propolis and I think the strong taste is from the propolis. I am sure that beekeepers who are used to that strawberry clover honey I saw in the Peace River country that went 4 on the pFund (Albertians will probably tell me that was a dark sample) would definitely not like the Trigona honey. There is niche market in Australia for it. The craze at the moment is "bush tucker" i.e. food from native plants and Trigona honey is in this league. The Aboriginals here in Australia used to call the honey from the Trigona "sugar bag". Honey from feral Apis mellifera hives was "white man's sugar bag". People are starting to box the Trigona and then later on split the hive to make two colonies and so on. I have been to several lectures on the Trigona and find them very fascinating. If anyone is interested in the boxing technique, it was published in the Proceedings of the Second Australian and International Bee Congress held in Australia in 1988. Hope this is of interest Garth. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 17:06:19 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jinnah Subject: Re: Extractor Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:22 AM 10/1/97 -0400, you wrote: >In a message dated 97-10-01 09:40:55 EDT, you write: > >> I got this idea when I read your posts about extractors. What if you put a > >> switch on your motor, kinda like the dimmer switch you use on lights? > Maybe >> it could cut the power and make the motor run slower, then as you turn up >the >> switch the motor would increase in speed???? I'm not electrically >inclined, >> but it might work. Just my thoughts on it. >> >CAUTION! Do not use a light dimmer on a motor. The type of dimmer commonly >used on lights will burn out and possibly damage the motor. They are not >designed for "inductive loads" which is what a motor puts out. > >You can buy something called a Variac to vary motor speeds. They are large >variable transformers and quite expensive when new but have been made for >many years. A used Variac to handle a 1/2 HP motor should be $50 to $100 if >you can find one. (Try the Web) > >There are also variable speed motors and controllers both AC and DC but they >are usually several hundred dollars. > >The two speed furnace motor sounds like the most economical idea. > >Tom Harker (electronics design & hobby beekeeper) > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 08:58:42 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jinnah Subject: Re: record-keeping packages Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:27 PM 9/26/97 -0400, you wrote: >I just received a Beekeeper's Program from Ron Miksha of Calgary, AB. >The Mailing address for the software is: > Quick Learn > Suite 8208 > 8208, 315 Southampton Dr. SW > Calgary, AB T2W 2T6 >Web site, where I found the information and ordered the package is: > > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Beekeeping > >Haven't had a chance to load and run the program yet so am not sure what all >is covered. Will follow up when I have more information > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 09:01:26 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jinnah Subject: Re: Mediums Vs Deeps Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:35 PM 9/30/97 +0300, you wrote: >Halo, everybody > >I wander if anyone hasn't trouble with wintering using mediums. We living in latitude 54.5 dg. North (24 dg East ) do have. Last 2 years a frost almost reached a mark of 30 dg. Celsius. My "bee friend" often used to lose his bees. The reason was simple. Bees ate honey in low frames and could not find the upper ones. Maybe, they occurred at the top of the first frame right while frost? They died with plenty of food above. He tried to diminish a space among lower and upper frames. Nothing helped. He refused mediums and now has only deeps. > >Such a story. Any suggestions? > >A small bee keeper >Rimantas Zujus >Lithuania > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 09:02:04 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jinnah Subject: Re: Good Beekeeping Books Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 06:01 PM 9/30/97 -0700, you wrote: >At 06:04 PM 9/29/97 -0400, you wrote: >>Hi All, >> I'm considering starting a few hives in the spring. Could >> you recommend some good beekeeping books? I want >> to learn as much as possible before I start this adventure. ;-) >> >>Thanks >>Sarah >> >>--------------------------- >>Sarah Sund >>ssund@amulet.com >> >Hello Sarah, I would recommend "How to keep Bees and Sell Honey" by Walter >T. Kelley. > and "ABC and XYZ of BEE CULTURE" by The A.I. Root Co. these are proven greats! > >Jeff Barnett >Jeff Barnett >beeman@preferred.com >retired(for now) queen producer. > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 08:59:03 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jinnah Subject: Re: Has anybody on this list ever kept other bee species Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:15 AM 10/1/97 GMT+0200, you wrote: >Hi All > >Just thought I would ask if anybody on the list has ever kept any >other bee species? Apis cerana?? Tried robbing the open nesting >species? > >Also to those in Australia - stingless bees? > >Just interested to hear about them other than from books. > >Keep well > >Garth > >--- >Garth Cambray Kamdini Apiaries >15 Park Road Apis melifera capensis >Grahamstown 800ml annual precipitation >6139 >Eastern Cape >South Africa Phone 27-0461-311663 > >3rd year Biochemistry/Microbiology Rhodes University >In general, generalisations are bad. >Interests: Flii's and Bees. > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 09:01:57 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jinnah Subject: Re: SV: Acceptance of new queen Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At 11:33 PM 9/30/97 +-200, you wrote: > > >---------- >Fra: Computer Software Solutions Ltd[SMTP:cssl@iol.ie] >Sendt: 29. september 1997 22:03 >Til: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU >Emne: Acceptance of new queen > >This is my first year with bees. > > >Afterwards I was told by a beekeeper that I should have stayed away from= the >hive for 6 days, otherwise the bees might reject the queen. > >So now I just have to wait until I return from my vacation on 17Th October >to see have I a problem. > >My question is this: Are the bees not behaving against their own interests >by killing the queen? > >No they are very rational, but introducing a new queen demands some caretaking from your side.(remember, you have disturbed their home, and they have besides accepting a new queen also to start reparing the damage you have done to their home) Your information is not that godd that I can tell you what you did wrong, but I can give you some hints that I use myself, with good results. > >When you get a new queen, you mostly will be adwised in advance that the queen is on its way, so that you will be there to pick the queen up from the post. The day before you want to add the new queen you remove the Old queen by simpel killing her, and let the dead queen left in the hive. The bees will then remove the dead queen from the hive , like they remove any other trash from it. But reardles of in what way,you are reciveing the new queen , this queen killing should be done the day before You want to add the new= queen. > >What now goes on in the hive is that when the feronomon production stops, they get prepared to make a new quen, from one or more eegs in the brood chamber. and of course they get into a kind of panic. > >the next day uou intoduce the new queen. > >Some people are using a kind of a queen introducer. I am crafting a little cornet out of a little peace of newspaper about =D8 3/4 inch and length 2= inches. >in here i with a neadle put some holes. Now When you recive the new queen, you put her into this little cornet and close it, by folding the opening. If you get the queen by mail you can use the little box the queens are shipped= in. > >Now cover the cornet with honey and place it in the top of the Brood chamber between to frames with a lot of eggs and young larvae. Here you also will find the most nurse bees, that will protect and take care the new queen. Close the hive and let the bees alone for the next week. > >becouse of the honey you have added to the cornet, the bees will start licking of this and not behave aggressiv. When they get to the cornet they will free the new queen and accept her. But hey will also protect her, and if you open the hive too soon after introducing the new queen, there is a risk that this protection will kill her. It can happen that they will ball her in, and thereby hirt her. and if a queen got damaged in this nesting, they will replace her. Special at this time of the Year this will be catastrophich.=20 > >It will always be a good Idea to leave the bees alone as much as possible, and only disturb them when it is absolut needed. > >Best regards Jorn > > > >If the hive does not have young eggs. they have no means of raising a new >queen. They are thus faced with the prospect of laying workers which can >produce drones only. Are they not thus on their way to extinction?. Can >anybody give the rationale for their action (if that is what they have= done). > >One other question - should I have made the hive queenless some hours or >days before I introduced the new queen?. I did not do this - I removed the >old queen just a few minutes before I inserted the new one. > >Thanks for help > > >Sincerely > >Tom Barrett >Computer Software Solutions Ltd >49 South Park >Foxrock >Dublin 18 >Ireland > >e mail: cssl@iol.ie > > >Attachment Converted: C:\Eudora\Attach\SV Acceptance of new queen > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 09:00:36 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jinnah Subject: Re: Extractor Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:47 PM 9/30/97 -0700, you wrote: >At 03:20 PM 9/28/97 -0400, you wrote: >>I am going to motortize my hand cranked extractor. What should the rpm >>of the extractor be? >>-- >>Ken Coyle >>If you can't fix it with duct tape, why bother? >>kcoyle@hookup.net >>http://www.hookup.net/~kcoyle >> >Dear friend, I'm not sure you are aware of the problems associated with >"home improvement" on your hand cranked extractor. #1 Most motors have only >1 speed, therefore damaging the frames and combs because of the suddent jolt >given them. I once saw one that a friend did that resembled an air plane. I >was afraid to go near it! > >Jeff >Jeff Barnett >beeman@preferred.com >retired(for now) queen producer. > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 09:00:40 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jinnah Subject: Re: Bee space Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 02:43 AM 10/1/97 -0400, you wrote: ><<<<< >Most of us have read enough to know what a 'bee space' is, but I've NEVER >seen it referred to as a 'bee way'. I suspect that lots of knowlegeable >beekeepers were wondering what you meant. Maybe it's a difference of >terminology between the UK and the US. ???>>>>> > >I detect a strong note of censure in Michael Reddells' letter. Space or >way, we use either term. From what followed in my letter it was clear that >way and space meant the same thing. Here we use the term crown board for >the american cover board. >I was not being sarcastic or unpleasant when I said "If only some people >would read a book". I meant just that. Most of the elementary requests >for help that appear on this list are already answered in any good book on >bees. >Many people treat beekeeping too lightly. It is not a simple hobby. It >is a craft and a science and needs study. In over sixty years of >beekeeping ( I started in 1930) I t have taught and trained a large number >of aspiring beekeepers. I have also seen far too many people fall by the >wayside. They visit a show, are fascinated by the observation hive and the >masses of honey. They then rush out, buy bees and equipment and get >started. Within two years it is all over. Perhaps a severe stinging due >to inexperience, rows with the neighbours, little or no honey, inability to >prevent swarms and so on Then bees and equipment go on the market or >worse, are left neglected. All rather sad. When we are approached by >someone wanting to start we advise caution. We have an extensive library >so offer reading material, extend membership of a local association (we >have them all over the country) and depending on the time of the year, come >to monthly lectures or join a nearby friendly beekeeper for practical >experience in handling and inspecting. After that they are in a much better >position to judge whether beekeeping is for them or not. I realise that >in the wide open spaces of America some beginners may be on their own. I >still think it is unwise to go to all the expense of starting without >gaining a little practical experience and book knowledge first. > >Sidpul@compuserve.com > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 09:01:06 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jinnah Subject: Re: yard maintenance Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:02 AM 10/1/97 -0400, you wrote: >I started beekeeping this year. I didn't have problems keeping the grass >cut around the hives in the beginning. I would mow early (7AM) and the >bees didn't mind it. However, I now have difficulty cutting the grass with >the now established hives. I am aware you shouldn't hit the hive with the >mower. Does the sound, vibration or smell of the gasoline lawnmower cause >them to become angry? What is the best time and method to cut the grass >around hives? > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 02:31:57 +1000 Reply-To: alkhlawi@eisa.net.au Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "M. Alkhlawi" Subject: bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Our company name is Al Khlawi Trading Company. We are located in Melbourne, Australia. We export live bees and queen bees, to any country in the world. If you or anyone you know are interested in these products please contact us for further information. We would be pleased to send you the details and prices of our products. We have a fast, efficient delivery service and can supply goods throughout the year. Our prices are quoted on a CIF basis. We look forward to hearing from you soon. Best regards, M. Alkhlawi ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 09:00:31 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jinnah Subject: Re: Extractor Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 03:20 PM 9/28/97 -0400, you wrote: >I am going to motortize my hand cranked extractor. What should the rpm >of the extractor be? >-- >Ken Coyle >If you can't fix it with duct tape, why bother? >kcoyle@hookup.net >http://www.hookup.net/~kcoyle > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 09:01:11 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jinnah Subject: Re: basement hives? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:13 AM 10/1/97 EDT, you wrote: > BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU >++++ > >Hi Bill > You wrote ... >>.....use bee therapy for their arthritis. .... question to the list about >anyone's >>experience with keeping hives indoors during the winter. >>Any advice for these good folks? > >I have done just this with quite good success. Basement area should be >kept in complete darkness and as unheated as possible (mine was always >above freezing but cool). I fed with sugar syrup all winter. I collected >the bees with a bee vacuum I had made that sucked up the bees and deposited >them undamaged into a glass jar. I kept the hive screened so that bees >would not fly to the flashlight when I entered the room. However I learn >that bees do not see red light so will be using an old red photography >safelight this winter. You or your colleagues (or anybody) are welcome to >email me directly if you have any questions since many on the list may not >be very interested in this 'sideline'. > >Good Luck >george.fielder@hydro.on.ca > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 09:01:30 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jinnah Subject: Re: Fumidil-B Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:15 AM 9/27/97 -0300, you wrote: >Hi Andy: > Have we moved to fish stories now......... > >------Eunice >---- >> From: Andy Nachbar >> To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU >> Subject: Re: Fumidil-B >> Date: September 27, 1997 1:24 AM >> >> > Hello Andy and All: >> > The info I typed is taken off the packing list on bottle. I >> myself >use it twice a year. Spring and Fall. >> >> If it works for you use it.... If I had all money I have spent on >FUMIDIL-B >> I would be able to retire, as it is I do have all the empty bottles I >have >> used lined up on top a 12 foot block wall inside my wood shop which is >> 40x80 and they extend around the building. A very impressive sight to >> any beekeeper who knows the cost of this drug. > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 08:32:18 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Paul Basehore Subject: Re: Extractor In-Reply-To: <01BCCE4E.B09ECF60@modem-127.rideau.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:44 AM 10/1/97 -0400, you wrote: >Hi Everyone! > >I got this idea when I read your posts about extractors. What if you put a switch on your motor, kinda like the dimmer switch you use on lights? Maybe it could cut the power and make the motor run slower, then as you turn up the switch the motor would increase in speed???? I'm not electrically inclined, but it might work. Just my thoughts on it. > >Debbie from Canada.. > >p.s. My apiarie now has a name, it's called HoneySuckle Apiaries. Just regestered it with the government as a buisiness. > Most large motors are capacitor started and need a high voltage to produce enough tork to start the motor and get it to the proper rpm. After it is started you could lower the voltage with no problem but the start up is the problem. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 19:07:33 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dennis Subject: Re: Extractor Speed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Perhaps the pertinent thing when considering extractor speed would be rim= speed. I know that 200 to 300 RPM's top speed workes with a 32 frame, = 36 inch diameter machine. Anyone out there know the proper way to calculate centrifical force? Dennis Morefield Sideline Beekeeper, 100 colonies(at times!), Oregon, USA denmar@mind.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 10:54:02 -0400 Reply-To: ajwelk@ibm.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Al Welk Subject: Re: Extractor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Verville wrote: > > Woodworker's supply sells a "Router Speed Control" > for about $40 US. It says it can handle any 120V > DC or universal motor up to 15 amps. > Part Number 821-539 1-800-645-9292 > > Dave Verville > dverville@worldnet.att.net Nope doubt it will work ...... First of all if you could use if let's say with a 1hp motor. 1hp=746Watts, divided by 110 volts = 6.78 Amps ...... but you normally have a sart load of about 3X so the start load would be about 20 amps. With the number of starts you would have it would burn up the speed controller very shortly. The real reason that a speed controller won't work is because a speed controller can only work on a motor with brushes, or universal motor. Thats a motor in a normal power tool. An extractor motor, blower motor etc is an induction motor. It uses the windings in the filed and the cycles in the current to control the speed. A two speed induction motor has two set of windings. This type motor will only work on AC current, and won't work with any type of spped controler, dimmer switch or things like that. You need to vary the speed via some mechanical ie transmission technique. Variable pullys, gears or hydraulic is about the only way. Al Welk - Atlanta, GA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 17:52:55 +0200 Reply-To: pimapis@rls.roknet.ro Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: marian pintilie Organization: pimapis Subject: Re: mispost (and a suggestion) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Patrick M. O'Hearn wrote: > > Hello all, > My apologies to the list for missending a private message to the list > rather than directly to the intended party. > Patrick M. O'Hearn Me too. Sorry, but my intention was to send my message "short notice" to Jorn personally. I was aware by the annoing reply to Bee-l setting, but I simply Forgot. So, Allen , (or whoever can change that setting) why do not change it to avoid in future all those misposts. ( I suppose that all of us who do not like messages not related to bees will agree) Costel. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 11:23:03 -0400 Reply-To: ajwelk@ibm.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Al Welk Subject: Re: Extractor Speed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dennis wrote: > > Perhaps the pertinent thing when considering extractor speed would be rim speed. I know that 200 to 300 RPM's top speed workes with a 32 frame, 36 inch diameter machine. > > Anyone out there know the proper way to calculate centrifical force? > > Dennis Morefield > Sideline Beekeeper, 100 colonies(at times!), Oregon, USA > denmar@mind.net Really what you are computing is the Centripetal Force or the force inward on an object moving in a circle. The force that is keeping the frames going in a circle and not flying through the wall of the extractor. F=ma..... Force = mass X acceration. Ac=Vsquared over r....Centripital acceleration = the velocity squared divided by the radius. Boy ..... that stirred up some cobb webs from the past, and an old text buu also! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 17:26:10 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: motor thread Hi all On the motor thread, has anybody on the group built their own honey beater for making decent batches of creamed honey? A friend of mine has swopped me a large washing machine motor for a volume of honey. I plan to connect this thing to a paddle and then put it in a fifty litre container (I think thats about 9gallons?) and then set it in motion using a capacitor, or maybe a hand crank. Then I am thinking about pouring a thin stream of liquid nitrogen into the honey as it beats, the idea being that the shock of the temperature change should increase the rate of seed crystals forming from the beating proccess? The whole thing will be in a closed container with the lid without an air gap. The Liquid nitrogen will go in a small hole with a well, so that there will be a minimum of flavour loss to air, as well as bubble trapped. Does this sound like a bad idea or a good idea? The thing is the motor is really heavy and if somebody else has done something like this and it did not work, then I am not so keen to waste too much time on it. Keep well Garth PS to Debbie - congrats on getting the business on the books!--- Garth Cambray Kamdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Apis melifera capensis Grahamstown 800ml annual precipitation 6139 Eastern Cape South Africa Phone 27-0461-311663 3rd year Biochemistry/Microbiology Rhodes University In general, generalisations are bad. Interests: Flii's and Bees. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 09:26:09 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: mispost (and a suggestion) In-Reply-To: <3433C357.3F42@rls.roknet.ro> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > > My apologies to the list for missending a private message to the list > > rather than directly to the intended party. > Me too. Sorry, but my intention was to send my message "short notice" to > Jorn personally. I was aware by the annoing reply to Bee-l setting, but > I simply Forgot. > So, Allen , (or whoever can change that setting) why do not change it to > avoid in future all those misposts. ( I suppose that all of us who do > not like messages not related to bees will agree) I think Aaron can change the default on the list -- not sure. *However* it is also a function of your own mail software. Your software can override the default -- or supply its own default. For example, using Pegasus, I had to deliberately select BEE-L from a number of recipients in order to post this reply to the list, or the response would have automatically only gone to the author. Moreover, I regularly get messages in reply to my posts that were meant to go to the whole list and I have to send a copy back to the writer to post. Unfortunately, there is no simple solution to ensure that an error is not made in addressing since incoming headers are not totally standard, and it is simply a fact that these things will happen periodically unless careful attention is paid to outgoing headers. Thus it is important to *always* check your headers . (I know, I forget too sometimes). Allen ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 13:44:39 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: funny looking bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all Recently while looking through some hives my brother Rob and I have noticed the occasional recently emerged bee with "chewed up" looking wings. I remember reading somewhere that this may be due to varroa mites while the bees were still in the cell. Has anyone noticed this in their hives? Is it some other pathogen? Thanks, Ian Watson realtor@niagara.com real estate agent gardener baritone beekeeper---> 11 colonies and counting. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 14:04:24 -0500 Reply-To: snapshot@pbmo.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "M. C. Michel" Organization: Snap Shot Subject: Re: funny looking bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ian Watson wrote: > Recently while looking through some hives my brother Rob and I have > noticed the > occasional recently emerged bee with "chewed up" looking wings. > Ian, I've seen this before, was it from "Worn out" wings. Near the end of their lives, you can see the wings on the field bees literly worn off. Could that be what you see? Chris Michel Poplar Bluff, MO ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 15:22:48 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Funny looking bees! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT > From: Ian Watson > Subject: funny looking bees > ... > recently emerged bee with "chewed up" looking wings.... Deformed wings is an indicative symptom of PMS (parasitic mite syndrome) which can be caused by Varroa mites. I assume by your E-address that your are in the Niagra area (western NY). This is the time of year when drones are being expelled in northern climes and varroa mites begin to target worker brood. You have noticed deformed wings in newly emerging workers and are concerned that v. mites may be the cause. No one in cyberspace can diagnose what you already suspect without coming to your apiary, we can only speculate. Test your bees! Do an ether roll! If v. mites are found, treat with Apistan! Although v. mites have been conspicuously absent in most of NY this year, don't get complacent. Test, and if necessary treat. Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 15:41:37 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: The Bee Works Subject: Re: Extractor In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19971001222556.00686f2c@preferred.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 1 Oct 97 at 15:25, beeman wrote: > I thought of that as well, but when speaking with an older > gentleman that > was very mechanically inclined about it, he said that would burn out > most motors because you must have minimum amount of voltage to run > the motor. Does anyone know more about this? It has to be possible as I have a Dadant 6/12 extractor with a variable speed switch and motor. Perhaps a call to Dadant would give the answer, and you should be able to buy the items as spare parts. ******************************************* The Bee Works, 9 Progress Dr, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1 Phone/fax 705-326-7171 David Eyre, Owner. http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks e-mail ******************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 13:45:54 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Donald Aitken Subject: Re: Bucket Feeding--HELP! In-Reply-To: <199709300108_MC2-223E-285E@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII A hivetop feeder is similar to a shallow super with a plywood bottom glued to it. This makes a wooden pan which contains the syrup. To get the bees to the syrup one adds a wooden island in the middle . A hole is cut in the middle of the island to let the bees climb up from below. To keep the bees from flying into the syrup and drowning, a wire mesh cage can be put over the island. In the actual construction, I use plwood with dadoed joints for the sides and a rabbeted groove for the bottom. I believe this makes them more syrup proof. The height of the island is about 1/2 inch less than the depth of the pan. Donald Aitken 11710-129 Street Edmonton Alberta Canada T5M 0Y7 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 16:30:46 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John A Skinner Subject: Re: funny looking bees In-Reply-To: <199710021744.NAA24247@chardonnay.niagara.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Having bees with "chewed up wings" commonly is found with a heavy Varroa mite infestation. If there are several mites per cell, the pupae may not emerge, or if it does, the wings are not developed due to parasitization. I suggest sampling for Varroa using ether roll, sticky board, or examining drone or worker pupae for mites. good luck, John John A. Skinner 218 Ellington Hall Extension Apiculturist University of Tennessee jskinner@utk.edu Knoxville, TN 37901 (423)974-7138 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 17:51:25 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: George C Walker III Subject: Re: Bucket Feeding--HELP! Donald: Thanks for the description of the hivetop feeder. Please give more instruction on the wire mesh cage over the island. What size material? How placed over the hole? How bees access feed? Clint On Thu, 2 Oct 1997 13:45:54 -0600 Donald Aitken writes: >A hivetop feeder is similar to a shallow super with a plywood >bottom glued to it. This makes a wooden pan which contains the syrup. >To >get the bees to the syrup one adds a wooden island in the middle . A >hole >is cut in the middle of the island to let the bees climb up from >below. To >keep the bees from flying into the syrup and drowning, a wire mesh >cage >can be put over the island. > >In the actual construction, I use plwood with dadoed joints for the >sides >and a rabbeted groove for the bottom. I believe this makes them more >syrup >proof. The height of the island is about 1/2 inch less than the depth >of >the pan. > > >Donald Aitken >11710-129 Street >Edmonton Alberta Canada >T5M 0Y7 > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 18:34:07 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: Funny looking bees! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Aaron, John and others Well, actually I'm on the other side of the border in Ontario...;) I've never done an "ether roll", although I'm familiar with the procedure. Since there weren't a lot of these deformed winged bees (in fact, out of the 7 or 8 colonies I looked at, I only saw 2 deformed bees), I doubt if it's an infestation. I'll be putting the Apistan strips in soon and also giving the Mineral Oil a try. Thanks for confirming my suspicions...:) Ian Watson realtor@niagara.com real estate agent gardener baritone beekeeper---> 11 colonies and counting. ---------- > From: Aaron Morris > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Funny looking bees! > Date: Thursday, October 02, 1997 3:22 PM > > > From: Ian Watson > > Subject: funny looking bees > > ... > > recently emerged bee with "chewed up" looking wings.... > > Deformed wings is an indicative symptom of PMS (parasitic mite syndrome) > which can be caused by Varroa mites. I assume by your E-address that > your are in the Niagra area (western NY). This is the time of year when > drones are being expelled in northern climes and varroa mites begin to > target worker brood. You have noticed deformed wings in newly emerging > workers and are concerned that v. mites may be the cause. No one in > cyberspace can diagnose what you already suspect without coming to > your apiary, we can only speculate. Test your bees! Do an ether roll! > If v. mites are found, treat with Apistan! Although v. mites have been > conspicuously absent in most of NY this year, don't get complacent. > Test, and if necessary treat. > > Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 21:09:36 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adam Finkelstein Organization: http://sunsite.unc.edu/bees Subject: Re: Funny looking bees! In-Reply-To: <199710022233.SAA06121@chardonnay.niagara.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Isn't deformed wings on worker bees a symptom of one of the many viruses Varroa has helped to increase in the bee population? Adam ___________________________________________________________________________ Adam Finkelstein Internet Apiculture and Beekeeping Archive adamf@sunsite.unc.edu http://www.sunsite.unc.edu/bees ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 21:40:46 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Martin Braunstein Subject: Re: Research MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mart=EDn Braunstein Malka Caba=F1a Ap=EDcola e-mail: malka@webnet.com.ar ---------- > From: Rui Carlos Peruquetti > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Research > Date: mi=E9rcoles 1 de octubre de 1997 11:05 >=20 > We are interested in know how the users of Internet get informations > through the net and how they use the informations they get. >=20 > We count on your colaboration and in the future we will publish the > results. >=20 > Please, send the answers to rcarlos@alunos.ufv.br >=20 > Thank you. > -------------------------------------------------- >=20 > 1. Have you ever heard about: > (No ) HTML > (No ) PDF > (Yes ) Download > (No ) FTP > (Yes ) WWW >=20 > 2. How do you get information in the net? > (Yes ) e-mail > (Yes ) WWW > (Yes ) others: sci.agriculture.beekeeping (newsgroup) >=20 > 3. What do you use the information you got in the net for? > (Yes) work > (No) culture > (No) school > (Yes) others >=20 > 4. Are you worried about the quality of the information available in th= e > Internet? > (x ) yes > ( ) no >=20 > 5. Are you worried about the problem of virus passed through Internet? > (x ) yes > ( ) no >=20 > 6. As a way of obtention and change of informations, you consider the > Internet: > ( ) great > (Yes) good > ( ) regular > ( ) poor >=20 > 7. Do you consider the problem of copy rights important or do you think > it limits the use of Internet as a way of publishing works in the net? > ( X ) yes. I agree with copy rights > ( ) no >=20 >=20 > -- > Rui Carlos Peruquetti > Universidade Federal de Vicosa > Departamento de Biologia Geral > 36571-000 - Vicosa - MG - Brazil ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 22:06:17 -0500 Reply-To: cspacekAflash.net@flash.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: curtis spacek Subject: Re: motor thread MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit why not use a washing machine with a rack built to hold about 20 frames.put it on spin cycle and let her rip.oh btw washing machines have pumps which will empty the tank on demand .of course the machine would have to be taken apart and thoroughly cleaned and lubricated with food grade lubricants. not spending enough time watching the bees these days. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 00:13:30 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Conni Still (Long Island)" Subject: Re: Yard Maintenance After several years of fighting with lawn trimmers and lawn mowers, and finally letting the weeds take their toll, we found some discarded carpeting and put that under our hives. We are hobbiest beekeepers with only 3-4 hives, so it works for us. No more weeds or tall grass to mow and now if we could only find some "green carpeting", it would look like grass, but won't need any maintenance. Another suggestion we would like to share with you all. We added door handles to the sides of our supers, it makes lifting and moving them much easier, especially for anyone with a handicapping condition. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 17:04:21 +1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Murray Reid Subject: MAKING BEESWAX FOUNDATION Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I am looking for information on beeswax foundation making moulds or machines. Need name and address of relevant companies, phone, fax, and e-mail etc. Interested in hand moulds ( like waffle makers) or hand cranked rollers (that imprint sheets of plain wax off dipping boards), or presses (sheet of wax is sandwiched between 2 plastic embossing panels and is squeezed through a ringer or set of plain rollers) as well as commercial sheeting and embossing machines. Have information on rollers from Tom Industries in the US, Leaf moulds from Steele and Brodie in Scotland, as well as the range of Hertzog moulds and machines. Murray Reid Ministry of Agriculture Private Bag 3080 Hamilton New Zealand fax 64 7 838-5846 reidm@ruakura.mqm.govt.nz ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 05:49:57 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "HELP" Subject: Re: Extractor physics When considering the speed of revolution of an extractor, the relationship to work with (and I shall write it out, as I don't know how to put symbols down the line) is force equals omega squared times radius omega is the speed of rotation, so that if you double the speed force on the honey in the comb is multiplied by 4; double the radius and the force is merely doubled. You have to juggle the speed and the radius. Regards Matthew J Allan ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 05:52:16 -0230 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Sarah & Martin McDowell Subject: Chicago Beekeepers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01BCCFC0.813780A0" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BCCFC0.813780A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, I am looking for some south Chicage beekeepers or stores to purchase equipment. I am a new beekeeper. Any info. would be appreciated. ------=_NextPart_000_01BCCFC0.813780A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello,

I am looking for some = south Chicage beekeepers or stores to purchase equipment.  I am a = new beekeeper.      
Any info. would be = appreciated.

------=_NextPart_000_01BCCFC0.813780A0-- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 18:23:28 +1100 Reply-To: p.bray@airborne.co.nz Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Peter Bray Organization: Airborne Honey Subject: Re: Extractor Speed In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable > Dennis Morefield > Anyone out there know the proper way to calculate centrifical force? The optimum speed your extractor depends on the type and diameter of your unit. Centrifugal force for an extractor can be calculated with the formula f=3Dmv=B2/r where f =3D force in newtons, m=3Dmass in kgs, v=3Dvelocity in metres/second, and r=3D radius in metres. In practice an extractor with a diameter of 1.2 metres (from frame centre to frame centre) at 150rpm will develop 14.8 times the force of gravity and this works for semi radial extractors (one speed only). If these are full depths, there will be around 12.3 Gs on the bottom bars and 17.3 Gs on the top bars. The difference in centrifugal force between top and bottom bars is greater in smaller extractors. The following implications are also important:: 2X RPM and force goes up 4X. 3X RPM and force goes up 9X. I.e. RPM has an exponential effect on force. 2X diamter and force goes up 2X. 3X diameter and force goes up 3X. I.e. Increases in Diameter have a linear effect on force. It's important to get the RPM right! Peter Bray Airborne Honey Ltd., PO Box 28, Leeston, New Zealand Fax 64-3-324-3236, Phone 64-3-324-3569 p.bray@airborne.co.nz ---------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 19:56:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Hugo Veerkamp Organization: Amigabee computer networking for beekeepers Subject: electronic beekeeping dictionary MSGID: 240:31/0@beenet 8714d843 PID: FM 2.12.SW UNREG Introducing the Bee Pages electronic DICTIONARY OF BEEKEEPING TERMS In the early fifties, two international beekeeping organisations, IBRA ( U.K.), and APIMONDIA (Romania & Italy), decided to compile a dictionary of beekeeping terms in different languages, as an aid for translating beekeeping litterature while facilitating international contacts in the beekeeping community by removing language barriers. This dictionary was published in printed form, as computers were not yet as widely available as they are now. A long list of volumes has since been published, starting in 1951. General editor of the series of volumes is dr. Eva Crane. While these books have served their purpose well over the years, in 1994 a new idea sprang up in the mind of yours truly: perhaps it is possible to put some 1000 beekeeping terms into a database and enormously facilitate looking up of a term and the associated translation(s). It was then decided to use computer telecommunication facilities to compile a totally new wordlist in all languages spoken in the various European countries. A list of about 1000 beekeeping terms in english was sent via modem to Germany, Finland and Sweden, while French and Dutch translators were found in Holland. All through 1995/96 everybody set to work to translate and type out their wordlist. The results were received by modem in Amsterdam, were the wordlists are being prepared for use in the dictionary. We are now slowly approaching completion of a first stage in the project: A free demonstration version of the program has been placed on our website at http://www.inter.nl.net/hcc/beenet/beedic. Unforseen circumstances have delayed the project somewhat, but we hope to make good progress during the coming winter. -- Hugo Veerkamp THE BEE BBS AMSTERDAM THE BEE PAGES Email: mail : the Bee bbs Hug.Bee@net.hcc.nl P.O. BOX 51008 (send only SMALL files) 1007EA AMSTERDAM Apinet : 340:231/100 The Netherlands Beenet : 240:31/0 modem: +31 20 6764105 Fidonet: 2:2801/28 voice: +31 20 6715663 http://www.inter.nl.net/hcc/beenet --- FMail/386 1.22+ * Origin: zzz the BEE bbs Amsterdam Holland +31 20 6764105 zzz (240:31/0) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 20:57:34 UT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Garry Libby Subject: Re: Extractor Comments: To: ajwelk@ibm.net Hello Everybody, A good friend of Mine(and also My Mentor)uses a heavy duty variable speed drill to power His extractor.It is very simple to hook up and the cost is very low compared to the alternatives.This would be a very inexpensive solution for a hobbyist with just a few hives. I am not very mechanical so I don't know how to explain it, but it should be very easy to hook one up.good luck, Garry Libby Boston,MA USA LibBEE@msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 09:49:10 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Funny looking bees! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Adam Finkelstein wrote regarding Funny looking bees!: > > Isn't deformed wings on worker bees a symptom of one of the many > viruses Varroa has helped to increase in the bee population? > and he is correct. It is not the varroa mites that cause deformed wings, rather the viruses that varroa can vector. Current thought in learned circles is that viruses are ever present within a hive environment. It is the piercing mechanism of varroa through bees' exoskeleton that has "helped" the viruses spread/thrive within a colony. In anthropomorphic terms, it's kind of like junkies using dirty needles. The "nasties" are always around, it's the piercing that allows them to infect a body. An even better anology is fleas vectoring bubonic plague. It wasn't the fleas that caused the plague, they just vectored it. In my original response I wrote: > Deformed wings is an indicative symptom of PMS (parasitic mite > syndrome) which can be caused by Varroa mites. I should have written: > which can be vectored by Varroa mites. -------- A subtle but important distinction. Thanks Adam. In the meantime, test and treat if necessary. Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 12:09:47 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: DITRANI DE LA HOZ JUAN C Subject: Bombus hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Can anyone tell me how can I locate a Bombus hive? %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Juan C.Di Trani Universidad de las Americas, Puebla, Mexico. bi094795@udlapvms.pue.udlap.mx ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 14:38:09 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Faith Andrews Bedford Subject: Re: Yard Maintenance In a message dated 97-10-03 07:33:11 EDT, you write: << if we could only find some "green carpeting", it would look like grass, but won't need any maintenance. >> Any color carpet looks much better if you flip it upside down and let the natural jute colored backing face up. Faith Andrews Bedford ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 12:50:33 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Extractor Speed In-Reply-To: <12134321401467@systronix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > 2X diamter and force goes up 2X. > 3X diameter and force goes up 3X. I.e. > Increases in Diameter have a linear effect on force. > It's important to get the RPM right! FWIW, we run our Kelleys up to 200 to 240 RPM maximum speed depending on the amount of comb breakage we are experiencing. This in turn depends on the thickness of the honey. The reel diameter is 56 inches in diameter, so a formula to determine a good trial speed for another diameter would be: S = 220 X 56 / D Where S is the speed in RPM and D is the diameter of your extractor reel (not tank) in inches. Half to 2/3rds the above speed (S) is a good starting speed, with acceleration depending on how fast the combs empty. We have found a 1140/1725 two-speed motor works well if non-variable pullies are used for reduction to the values calculated above. 1140 gives a slow speed, and 1725 is used once most of the honey is out. Allen ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 17:18:24 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Jack R. Reece" Subject: Good Beekeeping Books MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Sarah The public library here has quite a few books with general info on beekeeping. I recommend starting there because it is free!! = The most pleasurable reading book I have come across is "A Book of Bees" = by Sue Hubbell. It is written by a once professional beekeeper about her ye= ar of working with bees. It has information for the beginner and the hobbyi= st also. Like I said, it is a pleasure to read. Not filled with a lot of textbook type of information. A lot of the beekeeping supply houses sell= this one. If you cannot locate it let me know by e-mail and I'll forward= the info to you. JackReece@compuserve.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 19:48:49 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Foley Subject: Re: electronic beekeeping dictionary Dear Sir: I tried to access the site you indicated, and got this response: 404 ERROR: File not found ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Het bestand dat u probeert op te halen is niet aanwezig op deze server. Wellicht dat de URL naar het bestand niet juist is. Het kan ook zijn dat de plaatser van het bestand iets fout gedaan heeft. Wanneer u het bestand zelf geplaatst heeft, kijk dan eens in onze Helpdesk FAQ voor een mogelijke oplossing van dit probleem. The file you requested does not exist on this server. Maybe the URL to the file is incorrect. It's also possible that the person that placed this file has done something wrong. If you placed this file yourself, take a look at our Helpdesk FAQ for a possible solution. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Commentaar naar www@inter.nl.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 20:58:35 -0400 Reply-To: ajwelk@ibm.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Al Welk Subject: Packing weights vs Capacity MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I found this is a packaging catalog and thought it was handy. It is the weight in ounces for honey in various size containers. Basically it is the package volume or fluid ounce multiplied by 1.4375 for the avoir weight. Container Honey volume By weight 1 Oz 1.438 Oz 40.66g 2 Oz 2.875 Oz 81.30g 3 Oz 4.313 Oz 121.97g 4 Oz 5.750 Oz 161.19g 5 Oz 7.188 Oz 203.28g 6 Oz 8.625 Oz 243.91g 7 Oz 10.063 Oz 284.58g 8 Oz 11.500 Oz 325.22g 9 Oz 12.938 Oz 365.89g 10 Oz 14.375 Oz 406.53g 11 Oz 15.813 Oz 447.20g 12 Oz 17.250 Oz 487.83g 13 Oz 18.688 Oz 528.50g 14 Oz 20.125 Oz 569.14g 15 Oz 21.562 Oz 609.78g 16 Oz 23.000 Oz 650.45g 1 pound of honey by weight is 452.48 grams and requires a 12oz container by volume. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 08:05:45 PDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dennis Subject: Moving mean bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Several local beekeepers and I pollinate crannberries on the Oregon coast= . One of the difficulties doing this is that when they are ready to come= home, around July 1, they are often very MEAN. Major mean. (Possibly = from poison pollen! But that is another subject.) Standard wear for this move is a long sleave hooded sweatshirt, hood up, = under the beesuit. Plug the hole in the hole in the veil zipper with a = wad of paper and get out the duct tape to more securely fasten the suit = to the top of the boots. Use that duct tape on pockets and any other pro= blem areas too. We all wear Dadant suits, though others could be used. Now you are ready to move bees. (Or mow some grass?) A little hot? Yes. = But only a few stings, usually thru the pant legs. Dennis Morefield Sideline Beekeeper, 100 colonies(at times!), Oregon, USA denmar@mind.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 19:08:30 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Andy Nachbaur (by way of Andy Nachbar )" Subject: Beekeeping Software (BK-Economics) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" http://gears.tucson.ars.ag.gov/soft/bke/index.html New Release: BK-Economics 1.2 For Windows and Macintosh About the Software BK-Economics is a software package that was developed by a team of scientists at the Carl Hayden Bee Research Center in Tucson, Arizona to assist commercial beekeepers in streamlining their business practices. This software allows beekeepers to simulate years of business, taking into account factors like equipment purchases, labor force, transportation, marketing strategies, loans, honey flow, and other hive products without taking the usual risks. This software, when used in combination with the marketing strategy information in publication, can help beekeepers formulate a successful business plan when making financial decisions, expanding an operation or just starting out. To obtain a copy of this software, please read the following sections pertaining to the type of computer and operating systems software that you have. Click on the appropriate "Mail Me" button for ordering instructions. This software is a product of USDA research and is offered AT NO COST to anyone. For more information on the most recent release of BK-Economics, consult the September 1997 issue of Gleenings in Bee Culture magazine for an article on the software and useful marketing strategies for beekeepers. Version 1.2 for Windows 3.11/'95/NT <Mail Me A Copy (Windows) The software is available in a six-disk set for installation on computers running Windows versions 3.11, '95 and NT. A minimum of 8MB RAM is required and the program occupies approximately 20MB of disk space. The Windows version comes with runtime Interactive Help to guide the user while running simulations. Version 1.2 for Macintosh & PowerMacintosh <Mail Me A Copy (Macintosh) The software is available in a four-disk set for installation on Macintosh and PowerMacintosh computers running System 7.x and higher. A minimum 6MB RAM free is required (8MB RAM free recommended) and the installation occupies approximately 20MB of disk space. Using virtual memory with the PowerMac version will lower the memory requirements of the software. The Macintosh version comes with runtile Interactive Help to guide the user while running simulations. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 23:51:44 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Douglas A. Robertson" Subject: Quantum Bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I thought I might direct everyone to an article in the november Discover magazine. It tells of research by mathematician Barbara Shipman at the University of Rochester. While plotting sixth dimensional projections of "Flag manifold" problems in higher math into two dimenwions, she noticed their similarity to the recruitment dance of honeybees. By changing the alpha variable she can duplicate the differences in the dance signifying locations of food sources. These equations are used to describe events on a quantum mechanical level. Such as the behavior of quarks. She hypothesizes (it's only theory mind you) that bees can sense their environment through the activity of quarks in some way. It sounds pretty far out since no known sense organs exist for this. Some physicists/physiologists have tried to join the fields of biology and quantum mechanics wiht little support from their colleagues eg: Roger Penrose. Could our little bees be able to perform calculations on the order of Einstein? Can they envision the universe like Richard Feynman or Steven Hawking. It would be amazing if they could, but with their limited neurological structure noone has been able to figure out how they store and interpret the movements of the dance. It may be pure instinct or it could be the universe talking. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Oct 1997 00:01:11 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Douglas A. Robertson" Subject: Bee venmom and multiple sclerosis Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Yestereay I came across a posting on the Multiple Sclerosis Foundation web site that a full scale study of the effectiveness of bee venom for MS. They are using injections of purified venom in a double blind study. How they blind the recipient is beyond me. I usually know when I've been stung. The hope is that they can study the phenomonon noted in repeated anecdotal evidence by people such as those on this list. With the side effects and questionable effectiveness of most of the drugs for MS it is hoped something as simple as bee venom my be a relief. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Oct 1997 00:37:21 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: Bee venmom and multiple sclerosis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Yestereay I came across a posting on the Multiple Sclerosis Foundation web > site that a full scale study of the effectiveness of bee venom for MS. > They are using injections of purified venom in a double blind study. How > they blind the recipient is beyond me. Here we have again a case of the cure being worse than the disease... Ian Watson realtor@niagara.com real estate agent gardener baritone beekeeper---> 11 colonies and counting. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 20:46:28 -0800 Reply-To: beeman@Alaska.NET Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom & Carol Elliott Organization: Home Subject: Re: Bee venmom and multiple sclerosis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Douglas A. Robertson wrote: > > Yestereay I came across a posting on the Multiple Sclerosis Foundation web > site that a full scale study of the effectiveness of bee venom for MS. > They are using injections of purified venom in a double blind study. How > they blind the recipient is beyond me. I usually know when I've been stung. One concern I have had since reading of the MS Foundation study, is that (assuming there is indeed some benefit from bee stings) "purified" venom in and injectible form may well not have the desired result. Since the mechanism is still basically hypothetical negative results from the MS Foundation study could mean simply the method is flawed and not the effectiveness of apitheripy. Any thoughts on that? -- "Test everything. Hold on to the good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21) Tom Elliott Chugiak, Alaska U.S.A. beeman@alaska.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Oct 1997 00:44:11 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Brenda Wishin Subject: Re: Bee venom and multiple sclerosis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit They inject placebo drug instead of venom ---------- > From: Douglas A. Robertson > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Bee venmom and multiple sclerosis > Date: Friday, October 03, 1997 11:01 PM > > Yestereay I came across a posting on the Multiple Sclerosis Foundation web > site that a full scale study of the effectiveness of bee venom for MS. > They are using injections of purified venom in a double blind study. How > they blind the recipient is beyond me. I usually know when I've been stung. > The hope is that they can study the phenomonon noted in repeated anecdotal > evidence by people such as those on this list. With the side effects and > questionable effectiveness of most of the drugs for MS it is hoped > something as simple as bee venom my be a relief. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Oct 1997 05:24:19 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Steve Newcomb Subject: LOCK MITRE JOINT ON SUPERS Has anyone had any experience using a "lock mitre" type of joint for the corners of supers? This joint can be cut in one pass with a router table. It looks like it would be much faster than cutting finger joints (dovetails). It should have about 2 1/2X the glue surface area than a rabbet joint, but not as much as a finger joint. Has anyone had any experience with a glue called Gorrilla Glue. It is a new adhesive in the woodworking industry that uses water as a catalyst to cure. It is supposed to be waterproof, etc. I would appreciate any feedback before I spend $40.00 for a router bit and $20.00 for a bottle of glue (No, its not cheap) Thank you Steve Newcomb Elyria, OH ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Oct 1997 05:56:37 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: LOCK MITRE JOINT ON SUPERS In-Reply-To: <971004052418_742360550@emout15.mail.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Has anyone had any experience using a "lock mitre" type of joint for the > corners of supers? This joint can be cut in one pass with a router > table. How best to make the corners is a perennial question, and one that likely will never be fully answered to everyone's satisfaction. There are two types of corners in common use in North America after many years of people trying everything imaginable: the finger joint (beekeepers's 'dovetail' -- not a true dovetail) and the rabbetted corner. I suppose the reasons for these two being accepted widely, with the former being considered the more preferable, is ease of manufacture, assembly, and durability. The 'dovetail' requires more equipment to produce and is generally the sign of a manufactured box, although some jigs for home building are available. The rabbeted box can be made quickly with any good tablesaw. Assembly in either case is quite simple, with the former style being self-aligning. Either style can be assembled with or without glue and will have a long service life (usually) even if dropped repeatedly when full of combs. I have seen other corner styles on boxes made by woodworking enthusiasts, and although some may be as good as the standard joints, others may be subject to irreparable damage when dropped. Allen ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Oct 1997 06:29:46 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Yards.xlt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Well, about 40 people have now received copies of the yards spreadsheet, and I've heard very little back. I'm wondering if the file came through in good condition, was able to be decoded, and then ran okay on users' machines. Assuming most were able to take a look at it, I'd be interested in some discussion. Jorn has already written me his comments privately and it is interesting to note that there is a large difference in focus between our approaches. He feels that history of queens and families is important and I gather this is a main goal of his record system. On the other hand, I feel that I simply need to know what my guys are doing and to be able to see what may have been overlooked -- as well as what yards are performing well in wintering and production and which are not. I buy my queens these days, so breeding is not a concern. We evaluate different queen suppliers simply by marking the hives when installing queens and do not keep records. When we pull honey, or pick up deadouts in the spring the results are apparent. I'd like some comments, public and/or private on the sheet and the format. If you are sparing my feelings, don't worry; as many suspect, I don't have any . I learn by being wrong, so any criticisms -- no matter how crudely expressed -- are appreciated. I don't recall if I mentioned it, but there were some formulae in the sheet to calculate the supers per hive on a running basis as well as to calculate approximate yields from the number of supers pulled in each yard. I inadvertantly stripped them out when blanking the data, but they are easily added back in. Maybe everyone is intimidated by the huge array of data, I know I am, but I'm hoping some ideas will come from this on how to better manage it. Allen ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Oct 1997 08:28:24 +0000 Reply-To: barry@birkey.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Organization: BIRKEY.COM Subject: Re: LOCK MITRE JOINT ON SUPERS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Steve Newcomb wrote: > Has anyone had any experience using a "lock mitre" type of joint for the > corners of supers? This joint can be cut in one pass with a router table. > It looks like it would be much faster than cutting finger joints > (dovetails). It should have about 2 1/2X the glue surface area than a rabbet > joint, but not as much as a finger joint. Steve - I have made supers with both box (finger) joints and rabbets. My experience is that there is a large degree of seperation between the two holding up over time. If one has a table saw, making the box joint is very easy and quick once you make your jig. As far as using the "lock mitre" which, if I understand the term is a miter with a tounge in back, my concern would be the delicateness of the outer edge due to the miter joint coming to a feathered edge. Your dealing with wood boxes that are going to take a beating so a joint that is strong with the wood being as thick as possible seems like a good thing to keep in mind. I've had others mention using a standard dovetail joint for supers but again it seems to me that you will end up with some delicate edges on each pin (tail) that in time will tend to split out or break off. Maybe not as I've never tried. If all you have available is a router then I would still rabbet the edges and glue and screw the heck out of it and it will service you for many years. Or dovetail it if you already have the equipment to do so. > Has anyone had any experience with a glue called Gorrilla Glue. It is a new > adhesive in the woodworking industry that uses water as a catalyst to cure. > It is supposed to be waterproof, etc. No. $20 seems like alot to pay for glue. Again, depending on which joint you end up using, some will require the use of glue to a greater degree than others. Good luck with the decision. -Barry -- Barry Birkey West Chicago, Illinois USA barry@birkey.com http://www.birkey.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 16:11:35 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ecology97@AOL.COM Subject: Ecology and Wildlife Preservation Deeper Ecology: Essays on Ecological Spirituality Dear Colleagues: I have recently published a book entitled "Deeper Ecology: Essays on Ecological Spirituality," which outlines and discusses a protocol for the preservation and restoration of global ecology, wildlife populations, and ecosystems based on the degradation due to human exploitation. This book also delves into the "connectedness" aspect of humans to the natural world, with my own personal reflections on our role in the scheme of the finer workings of the world's flora and fauna. The Journal of Mammalogy and The Canadian Field Naturalist, as well as a dozen other publications, are planning to review this book in the near future. I invite you to read samples of the text; directly following. Ordering instructions for the book are shown at the end of these abstracts from the entire, 50 page text (8 1/2" x 11" format). Please share this information with others, and enjoy! Note: The price for each copy has been drastically reduced to only $5.95 for each copy!!! ************************************************************** "The figures are astounding in their portrayal of the worldwide rape of the land: Nearly 100% of the face of the earth in Ethiopia, Japan, and The United Kingdom has been disturbed; with a similar 75% rate in the U.S., Mexico, and China. Also, 95% of the forests in the U.S. have been lost, while only 10.5% of the total land area in the country is protected there (The rest (89.5%) is exploited). As can be seen, the cancerous growth of human invasion has spread to the far reaches of every continent on mother earth. We have set aside for parks and refuges, which have shown to be increasingly ineffectual, because of the island biogeography theory of poor dispersal and geographic isolation, which causes populations of wildlife to go extinct. We simply can't section off a small plot of real estate in the midst of civilization and expect it to function as a micro-ecosystem with unlimited potential. Furthermore, zoos and captive breeding programs are hardly a match for true wilderness, for these animals are far less keen to predators, and often become habitualized and imprinted to humans and their interactions. Healthy populations must consist of a great amount of individuals in order to persist. This is because of genetic traits, mutation, inbreeding, and general heterozygosity of alleles in the traits shared and passed on to the offspring. Dispersal, via proximate patch availability and transportation corridors is the salvation of these remnants of the dissolved landscape, within which the flora and fauna have free reign. A long time before I learned this in my college courses, I keyed in to this process in the city park bordering nearby hillsides, which at that time were undeveloped due to rough, mountainous terrain. Over the years, as I hiked there, I noticed that the city was spreading up the hill, and probably now over, spilling into another valley, like an explosion with no end. What was once a wilderness park, with it's coyotes, deer, and rattlesnakes, readily witnessed; has now become just what I described: A city park, with a manicured lawn equipped with sprinkler systems and picnic tables for a Sunday afternoon for the family to "get out into nature." I bring to this discussion the recurrent buzzword called rainforest, which evokes majestic visions of valleys filled with rivers of fog, brightly colored birds; and low and behold, a pair of massive tractors, with a 50-meter length of chain sweeping every tree in it's wake, decimating a grove in a matter of minutes. Yes, the tropical rainforest is the most diverse ecosystem on the planet, primarily because of the highly-specialized niches, incredible nutrient availability, and proportional energy influx from the rich and abundant biomass, which seemingly litters the terrain. Unfortunately, a large proportion of this quality habitat is found in undeveloped countries, where conservation is a luxury. A common practice which nearly literally brings tears to my eyes is the slash-and-burn technique of agricultural clearing of land of which impoverished, indigenous peoples practice for their livelihood. For, after a minimal amount of time, the soil in one area becomes nutrient-depleted, thus a new site must be obtained to produce viable crops, thus forests are decimated at a sickening and utterly evil rate. I became morbidly depressed in ecology course years ago when I saw satellite photographs of the earth taken at night, which showed scores of "wildfires" burning across the planet, primarily located in rainforests, caused by what I have just described. The feelings that are conjured by this atrocity are those of deep pain and a very strong motherly instinct for the nurturing and healing of this sickness, which is plainly seen to those, who, like me, have the stomach, or perhaps the honesty to look upon. The naturalist side of me cannot bear the site of a tree which has been harvested for human use. For the dismembered stump which remains is a mockery of the dignity once claimed by the testimonial lifesource by the one who wields the ax. The simple fact is that trees produce the oxygen which we breathe. It is pitiful enough to have to stay indoors on a warm day in a large city to avoid being rendered unconscious from the poisonous fumes of industry. The accounts of air pollution are endless, with some of the most striking to my mind being the Black Forest in Germany, which is nearly gone, from acid rain caused by the rapid advancement of modern machinery in that country. A professor of mine once told the class that air pollution didn't matter, because it was simply blown "somewhere else." This did not sit well with me, and does not to this day. This will not suffice. Another example of corporate madness is in a seemingly pristine, alpine lake, located outside of New York City, where another professor of mine expected to find countless circles on the top of the water in the morning from trout foraging for insects (A common site in a typical wilderness setting). Yet, he found the lake to be entirely, and without exception, a motionless void of highly acidic water. Furthermore, scientists have documented a one degree overall increase in global temperature in recent history, giving evidence to the "greenhouse effect" of the diminishment of the ozone layer; this perverse, proverbial newsflash, which has captured the interest of millions over the last few decades. Again, satellite images show that this risk in our protective coating from the sun's ultraviolet rays is increasing as time goes on, caused by the build-up of carbon dioxide, stemming from the overharvest of trees. Thus I pose a solution in the broadest sense, to deal with a combined sum of local catastrophes, which has become a global epidemic. What is needed is a committee composed of leaders from each and every country, representing each city, state, and tribe which consists of that region. There must be a protocol for every nation to follow, in order to succeed in our goal as a race, in the longevity of Homo sapiens as well as all other forms of life on the biosphere. I would hope that the petty wars would end, which to outside observers must seem as trivial as the "too many rats in a cage with no place to go" syndrome. First and foremost on the agenda will be a global birth rate of one-child-per-couple throughout their lifetime, and subsidies, as in China, for those who willingly go without giving birth at all, and severe penalties for those who exceed this one-child limit. We must incorporate scientists into our political systems, for any of this to succeed. My fear and dread comes with the urgency that this process must be implemented within the next 25 years, or the doom-and-gloom philosophies of many ecologists will come to prevail. For even though I may not see one of the mighty black rhinos in Africa in my lifetime, it simply feels good to know that they are there, and that they are well. For how can we have respect for ourselves as a species, if we do not treat other organisms with the same honor and integrity? As a final note, to synthesize this whole establishment of population control, I believe that once this is in effect, many, if not all, of our environmental problems will take care of themselves, since the basic premise of this movement is that too many humans, requiring too many resources, have basically mucked it all up." **************************************************************** "The universe is in a constant state of entropy; that is, all matter is trying to break into a simpler form, and life strives to alter this course by building and creating an environment of sustainable use. As someone once told me: Going against nature is a part of nature too. I think that this is why I prefer simpler living, because it is quite frankly an easier mode of existence, in such a world of molecular diffusion. For this thought I introduce, finally, my concept of Deeper Ecology, which to my thinking is a synthesis of what the Native American Indians and Buddhists and Taoists were trying to accomplish. With these three disciplines I shed a light of science and biology into the grand scheme of cosmic, inter-related metaphysics which seem to dominate the Homo sapien struggle to at once master the planet and attain a sense of humility through the process. Deeper Ecology is a realization that we are composed of the same elements that exist in nature, and thus we are no more important than all living and non-living material around us. Some suggest that I am giving up the cause of environmental restoration, and perhaps denying my species of it's grandeur (Which for some odd reason individuals insist on promoting). All I am trying to do is propose a level of consciousness which surpasses most modern belief systems, and which I believe can lead to a richer and more fulfilling span of life on Spaceship Earth, before each and every one of our physical bodies returns to the soil. To me this is reality in it's truest form. This is the skeleton of every argument posed by every critical thinker that has ever been, and that will set foot upon this realm. Humans have only been on the biosphere for a fraction of it's entirety, and we must keep this in mind when trying to establish notions of mastery and dominance over an entity which gave birth to us to begin with and will persist long after we have wasted much valuable time, attempting to reverse it's inherent processes of homeostasis." ***************************************************************** TABLE OF CONTENTS: 1. Sequoia sempervirens 2. Homo sapiens 3. Extinction 4. Genetic Viability 5. Hierarchy 6. Homo sapiens II 7. Ursus americanus 8. Lions, Tigers, and Bears 9. Social Darwinism 10. Spaceship Earth 11. Biology 12. Oncorhynchus tshawytscha 13. Nirvana 14. Cyanocitta stelleri 15. Carpe diem 16. First Law of Thermodynamics 17. Ecological Angst 18. Homo sapiens III 19. Eve 20. The Circus 21. Tyto alba 22. Lady of the Lake 23. Iguana iguana 24. Tyto alba II 25. "Spotted Owl Tastes Like Chicken" 26. Coexistence 27. Anthropocentrism 28. Tyto alba III 29. Academia 30. Deeper Ecology 31. Colaptes auratus 32. "The Chicken or the Egg" Hypothesis 33. Ignorance is Bliss 34. Reality Check 35. Homo sapiens IV 36. Global Ecology 37. Earth Day 38. Canis lupus 39. The "Umbrella" Approach 40. Man's Best Friend 41. The Killing Jar 42. Stochasticity 43. Earth Summit 44. Ecosystems 45. Testament EPILOGUE APPENDIX A: Bear Myths and Neanderthals APPENDIX B: Important Ecological Reasons For Conserving Ecosystems Rather Than Simply Individual Species ************************************************************* To order a copy of "Deeper Ecology: Essays on Ecological Spirituality," send your name and address and a check or money order (in U.S. funds) for $5.95 for each copy, plus $3.00 ($1.50 for each additional copy after the first) to pay for shipping and handling ($10 shipping to countries outside of U.S. and Canada, $5.00 for additional copies after the first) to: Wild Side Publishing P.O. Box 5241 Eureka, CA 95502 U.S.A. Please make your check or money order out to Wild Side Publishing. You will receive your copie(s) within 4 to 6 weeks from the time we receive your order! Orders will be sent as Priority First Class U.S. Mail. For orders of 10 or more copies of the book, please inquire as to discount rates! Thank you very much for your order! David Doyle Wild Side Publishing P.S. My apologies for any cross-postings and/or duplications of this message. P.P.S. All text in this message is copywritten by Wild Side Publishing, 1997. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Oct 1997 10:43:39 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: yard maintenance Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:02 AM 01/10/97 -0400, you wrote: >I started beekeeping this year. I didn't have problems keeping the grass >cut around the hives in the beginning. I would mow early (7AM) and the >bees didn't mind it. However, I now have difficulty cutting the grass with >the now established hives. I am aware you shouldn't hit the hive with the >mower. Does the sound, vibration or smell of the gasoline lawnmower cause >them to become angry? What is the best time and method to cut the grass >around hives? > I haven't mowed grass around hives for a long time - using Roundup instead but I do remember the secret was to walk backward and pull the mower past the entrance. Eric Abell Gibbons, Alberta Canada T0A 1N0 Ph/fax (403) 998 3143 eabell@compusmart.ab.ca ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Oct 1997 14:03:25 -0600 Reply-To: wawokiya@cyberhighway.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joseph Subject: Re: Bee venmom and multiple sclerosis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have been administering bee venom therapy to my wife (who has MS) for approx. two months now and the results have been astounding. I am a health care professional and I have never seen anything like this. I have also been taking it for chronic back problems and have had very significant relief. We get stings from bees shipped to us (I will be keeping bees next spring). I think that the American Health Care establishment will probably never have much interest in this treatment because there is no money to be made...hence the distinct lack of interest by researchers. The American Apitherapy Society has an excellent website with some good links for more info: http://www.beesting.com/mainpage.html I will be glad to respond to anyone individually about our own experiences or I can post some very specific data about my wife's case to the list if that is desirable. Mitakuye Oyasin "All My Relations" Joseph A. Keto Jr. RN, B.S.N. ---------- | From: Excerpts from BEE-L | To: Bestofbee@systronix.net | Subject: Re: Bee venmom and multiple sclerosis | Date: Saturday, October 04, 1997 5:45 AM | | From: Tom & Carol Elliott | To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU | | | > Yesterday I came across a posting on the Multiple Sclerosis Foundation web | > site that a full scale study of the effectiveness of bee venom for MS. | > They are using injections of purified venom in a double blind study. How | > they blind the recipient is beyond me. I usually know when I've been stung. | | One concern I have had since reading of the MS Foundation study, is that | (assuming there is indeed some benefit from bee stings) "purified" venom | in and injectible form may well not have the desired result. Since the | mechanism is still basically hypothetical negative results from the MS | Foundation study could mean simply the method is flawed and not the | effectiveness of apitheripy. | | Any thoughts on that? | -- | "Test everything. Hold on to the good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21) | | Tom Elliott | Chugiak, Alaska | U.S.A. | ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Oct 1997 17:16:15 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "MR WILLIAM L HUGHES JR." Subject: Ecology and Wildlife Preservation I have read your what ever and I have a few questions. 1.) Is the building you live in have a wooded frame, how about the furniture you use? 2.) I do not think that you have heard of the US Constitution. This document would have to be destroyed for your one child per couple rule. 3.) I guess people like you would have to set up a 1984 type government to do this with yourself and others like you in the "inner party"? 4.) Are you asking that out nation give up its sovernty that thousand have died for? 5.) Your movement sounds more like a Marxist movement to me, is it? 6.) At what time does "BIG BROTHER" start the "FINAL SOLUTION" to the population that does not agree with you? One last statement. Over forty million people died less than fifty years ago to stop a group like yours. Their nice name was the National Socialist Party. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Oct 1997 17:20:23 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Walter T. Weller" Subject: Re: Ecology and Wildlife Preservation Comments: cc: Ecology97@AOL.COM On Fri, 3 Oct 1997 16:11:35 -0400 Ecology97@AOL.COM writes: >Deeper Ecology: Essays on Ecological Spirituality > >Dear Colleagues: > > I have recently published a book entitled "Deeper Ecology: Essays on >Ecological Spirituality," David Doyle - I am not your "Dear Colleague", and I very strongly resent your intruding on a specialist list with a blurb to push your totally unrelated and way-out book. Go crawl back under your rock or we'll sic our bees on you. Walter Weller Post Office Box 270 Wakefield, Louisiana 70784 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Oct 1997 20:50:48 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Bartlett Subject: Re: Ecology and Wildlife Preservation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All the arguements that were given were not out of line. And it does pretain to the bees. We grow large fields of crops today and there are less pollinators because we have cut down the habitat for honey bees and other insects. Now we have to provide pollinators to more and more crops. Without the bees we would have to pay alot more for many fruits and vegetables and nuts. Over a third of all the hives in the U.S. are brought to California each year to pollinate the almonds. (800,000 hives) There centainly is alot more to be said about just the bees and don't forget, they are not native to the U.S., but will not expound on it here. billy bee ---------- > From: Walter T. Weller > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Re: Ecology and Wildlife Preservation > Date: Saturday, October 04, 1997 6:20 PM > > On Fri, 3 Oct 1997 16:11:35 -0400 Ecology97@AOL.COM writes: > > >Deeper Ecology: Essays on Ecological Spirituality > > > >Dear Colleagues: > > > > I have recently published a book entitled "Deeper Ecology: Essays > on > >Ecological Spirituality," > > David Doyle - > > I am not your "Dear Colleague", and I very strongly resent your intruding > on a specialist list with a blurb to push your totally unrelated and > way-out book. > > Go crawl back under your rock or we'll sic our bees on you. > > Walter Weller > Post Office Box 270 > Wakefield, Louisiana 70784 > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Oct 1997 01:48:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: Re: Florida Bee Conditions Sept 97 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=unknown-8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable FYI* Ripped off the beekeeping news group as some may be mildly interested. ---------------------------------------- TM>From: tomas mozer >Date: Sat, 04 Oct 1997 11:34:59 -0700 >Subject: Re: Florida Bee Conditions Sept 97 TM>Andy Nachbaur wrote: >> FLORIDA HONEY REPORT FOR SEPTEMBER 1997 >> Quite a number of bees have been lost due to the varroa mites. I= t >> appears the mites have become resistant to the treatment beekeepers >> have been using. Bees that are not affected by the mite are in good >> condition. TM>andy, what's the source of this report?.. Not sure but would guess someone in the Fl. Dept. of Agriculture, like a state bee inspector. I get it from the United States Department of Agriculture, Agricultural Marketing Service. >could this be the first case of confirmable varroa mite (chemical) >resistance in north america, and resistance to which treatments? > I have seen unofficial annecdotal reports of such resistance to >apistan/fluvalinate from florida,u.s.a. and b.c.,canada on this, the 1= 0th >year of permittable use (at least in florida)...but am not aware of an= y >bees not affected by the mite, just variable efficacies of different >treatments. > any further info would bee appreciated, as well as other reports of >recent experiences with varroa and treatment results, or lack thereof. >thanks in advance, tomas in fla. Hi Tomas, First there are more reports of beekeepers and researchers not finding any Varroa in untreated hives that had Varroa last season then reports of strip failure. Most would not know one way or the other without some extra testing for Varroa. The USDA bee people from the TEXAS Bee Lab have been working in Florida and should have by now finished some testing of different chemicals and strips on Varroa. I can not tell you what they found out until they publish the report, (if they ever do that), but for sure there may be little concern about chemical resistance but a whole lot of concern about product efficiency if what they find is consistent with what others have reported for many years. This is not the first time testing and concern over the only approved product for Varroa control in the USA has been voiced. After testing a few years ago in Washington state that demonstrated problems with the dosage in the approved product it was then clear that a problem existed. It is clear what beekeepers are buying now is not the product approved and pushed originally by our government bee regulatory and so called bee scientists for Varroa control. Also I believe the quality of the product may have been and may be less then acceptable by any farm chemical standards now in use and more then likely a violation of the laws pertaining to registration of farm chemicals which do include some expectations of efficiency as originally claimed by registrants. You see once a product is registered no one in the chemical regulatory industry bothers to check to see if what is sold to the end user is what was registered. All after registration regulatory effort is put in making sure the end user jumps through all regulatory bureaucratic hoops which generate nothing but paper of no useful worldly value to any living person until it can be recycled years from now. The facts are that any testing for resistance is less then useless without testing to determine what is being tested is indeed the same in all tests and every indication has been for several years that it is not. This allows for the mixed antidotal reports from end users and other reports of resistance could be based on a faulty chemical product. I can not say much more then what I have said before, watch out buying a pig in the poke from any chemical company as their advertising budget quickly soon is greater then their product production budget and it buys them respect with those in the bee regulatory-science industry and bee supply industry that are relied on by beekeepers for good information, honest or not, and the normal is that they have nothing to lose but sales if it all blows up unless enough evidence can be gathered to prove wrong doing which they know for all practicality they are immune from because of the size and nature of the fractured bee industry. With only one product approved for use we are being held hostage to one chemical and it is sad that after having our pockets picked we may be getting a defective one. IMHO ttul Andy- (c) Permission is granted to freely copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)Opinions are not necessarily facts. Use at own risk. --- =FE QMPro 1.53 =FE ... That the still murmur of the honey bee ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Oct 1997 00:27:06 -0400 Reply-To: Chris Worth Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Chris Worth Subject: Re: Bee venom and multiple sclerosis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sat, 4 Oct 1997 00:44:11 -0500, Brenda Wishin wrote: >They inject placebo drug instead of venom Quite true from a "technical" standpoint. However, this injection involves something that usually causes a reaction. I think that is the point that Doug was making. Chris ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Oct 1997 04:57:48 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: Re: Quantum Bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >She hypothesizes (it's only theory mind you) that bees can sense their >environment through the activity of quarks in some way. It is remarkable enough that bees are able to sense the earth's magnetic field through the orientation of tiny crystals of ferromagnetite in their body. These crystals have a size expressed in nanometers (ten to the minus nine meters I believe). The sensory receptor for these is still I believe unknown. But quarks! That is hard to believe or even conceive of. The sensory receptor would have to be subatomic. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Oct 1997 20:07:02 +-800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Alan Norris Subject: Plastic Foundation Comb MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have just purchased some plastic frames with plastic foundation in them and was told that they will need coating with wax. I have tried painting hot beeswax on with a brush but it was not very successful, the wax sets as soon as it touches the plasic foudation. Is it really necessary to coat plastic foundation, if so any suggestions on how to do it. Thanks Alan Norris ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Oct 1997 22:09:15 +1000 Reply-To: psrobert@gil.com.au Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Paul & Sandra Roberts Subject: Introducing Queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As I introduced a new queen last night by an amalgamtion of a nuc , used to raise her, and the target hive I noticed what appeared to a number of emergency queen cells in the queenless hive that was to receive the new queen. The hive had been made queenless approximately seven hours earlier when I dispatched the previous monarch & dropped her in the bottom of the hive. My query relates to what the new queen does with the emergency queen cells? Does she leave them thus leaving the chance of supercedure, or does she tear them down like a virgin queen who has just hatched would? Or do the worker/nurse bees simply not procede with the queen cell once the new queen is established? I intend to check in the next 10 days just to make sure that there are no queen cells as the old girl generated a strong but willing bunch who I am looking forward to seeing the end of.... Thanks for your thoughts on this matter, Regards Paul Roberts Brisbane, Australia ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Oct 1997 09:38:52 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Ralph W. Harrison" Subject: Re: Plastic Foundation Comb I used plastic foundation for some of my honey supers for the first time this year, and was very pleased with it. I put it on during the major nectar flow here in Connecticut and the bees did not hesitate to draw out honeycomb even though the honey supers were above a queen excluder. There was a post on the BEE-L in the spring that bees would not draw out honeycomb on plastic above a queen excluder. I found this not to be true. Once the nectar flow starts I think the bee will draw honeycomb on plastic coated or not. Regards, Ralph Harrison Secretary Western CT Beekeepers Association Milford, Connecticut U.S.A. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Oct 1997 13:03:09 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: Quantum Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >She hypothesizes (it's only theory mind you) that bees can sense their > >environment through the activity of quarks in some way. > > It is remarkable enough that bees are able to sense the earth's magnetic > field through the orientation of tiny crystals of ferromagnetite in their > body. These crystals have a size expressed in nanometers (ten to the minus > nine meters I believe). The sensory receptor for these is still I believe > unknown. But quarks! That is hard to believe or even conceive of. The > sensory receptor would have to be subatomic. Not necessarily. In particle accelerators, they detect elemental particles like quarks and bosons, etc . The detection equipment at CERN couldn't be subatomic. Could it? But the whole idea is quite fascinating, that bees could possibly interact with quarks! Ian Watson realtor@niagara.com real estate agent gardener baritone beekeeper---> 11 colonies and counting. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Oct 1997 19:26:09 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Yards.xls Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At the risk of yet another spam, I will try a final point. Like many, I just deleted my 40+ files of the Yards.gif spreadsheet file without looking at it. I did request the Yards.xlf file and found it very informative. I found it interesting to note the types and the number of variables being recorded. I also have no doubt that someone else might pay more attention to queen lines, and I know we pay more attention to hygienic behavior and disease history. But, that is the point I was trying to make when I suggested a group effort to "design" some of the software, that so many claim to want. So far my mail has yielded three pieces of software, one being marketed, and two offered for free. With these exceptions, not only has no one else indicated any interest in collaborating on providing some customized software, but I have received some rather nasty comments that this is a discussion list, not a software design group. Maybe my academic background is lending a strong bias, but we have always found databases, models, spreadsheets, etc. to be a means of focusing a discussion. Apparently that view is not held by this group. So, I will take this discussion off the List. If anyone would like to brainstorm some computer-based programs that would be flexible and useful by a wide array of beekeepers, let me know. I envision working primarily within a spreadsheet format - I also don't have the time to continually write and re-write custom software. But spreadsheets are powerful tools. Cheers Jerry J. Bromenshenk, Ph.D. Director, DOE/EPSCoR & Montana Organization for Research in Energy The University of Montana-Missoula Missoula, MT 59812-1002 E-Mail: jjbmail@selway.umt.edu Tel: 406-243-5648 Fax: 406-243-4184 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Oct 1997 19:53:33 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Augustus C.Skamarycz" Subject: Re: Plastic Foundation Comb Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:07 PM 10/5/97 +-800, you wrote: >I have just purchased some plastic frames with plastic foundation in them and was told that they will need coating with wax. > >I have tried painting hot beeswax on with a brush but it was not very successful, the wax sets as soon as it touches the plasic foudation. > >Is it really necessary to coat plastic foundation, if so any suggestions on how to do it. > >Thanks >Alan Norris > >No Need to have wax on the foundation. Bees will draw the comb out during good honey flows. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Oct 1997 19:10:15 -0500 Reply-To: cspacekAflash.net@flash.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: curtis spacek Subject: Re: Frames with pollen/honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit you can use these for swarm traps also.the older the comb the better. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Oct 1997 22:17:17 -0700 Reply-To: vcoppola@epix.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Re: Plastic Foundation Comb MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alan Norris wrote: > > I have just purchased some plastic frames with plastic foundation in them and was told that they will need coating with wax. Is it really necessary to coat plastic foundation, if so any suggestions on how to do it. Our bees have drawn out thousands of the unwaxed ones. We have tried the waxed ones and see no differance. My advice- save your money and your wax, use the unwaxed. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Oct 1997 23:12:51 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Yards.xls In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19971005171955.0f3f2a30@selway.umt.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > ...With these exceptions, not only has no one else indicated any > interest in collaborating on providing some customized software, but I > have received some rather nasty comments that this is a discussion list, > not a software design group ...So, I will take this discussion off the List. Jerry, don't let them get to you. And others please take note too. *Anybody* who contributes anything worthwhile to this group receives impolite and abusive private email from several people who act righteous in public but seem to think they get get away with anything in private. Many would be amazed to find out who these people are :) I gather you have received some of this hate mail. You can either take them seriously or laugh. If you do the former, we will all miss out on the chance for a good discussion and a chance to learn something. You see, what you are proposing is something new and worthwhile, not something that has been rehashed a thousand times or which we can find in books. Such discussions will naturally be over the heads or outside the interest areas of some and they may complain, but on this list, if we insist on finding the lowest common denominator even that level will decline as the more interesting people leave. Besides where else can we discuss this? We cannot please everyone. We must do what is right. And I think for a PhD working with bees at a university to request discussion on this list about software for managing bees is definitely as bona fide as anything else on this list. I wish we had more of this type of thing. Further, I believe it is also just fine for *anyone* who has constructive comments and observations on the subject to respond to the list. After all this is what BEE-L is for. People will always complain, and as long as those complaints are polite and show respect for those who differ in opinion, I believe that they are constructive and positive. It is important that we maintain a feeling of comfort and mutual respect on this list. In recent disagreements and in my accidental blitzing of the list, I have been amazed at the level of maturity, civility and good humour of all but four people (yup, the same four). BEE-L continues to be one of the most civilized groups on the entire net. I salute the list members and hold all with great affection. Let's get on with discussing bee management software. Allen ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Oct 1997 23:29:43 -0600 Reply-To: darn@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Donald Aitken Subject: Re: Yards.xls In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19971005171955.0f3f2a30@selway.umt.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Jerry Bromenshenk wrote: I have received some rather nasty comments that this is a > discussion list, not a software design group. I believe that methods of recording apiary information are of definite interest to many members of this list. No one seems to object to discussion of methods of mite control, methods of feeding, methods of uncapping etc. etc. Why object to discussing methods of record keeping? Subscription to the list implies use of a computer for obtaining information about beekeeping; surely software for direct use in beekeeping is of interest to many of us. It certainly is to me. Some people with small apiaries have no need of software to keep records, some people with large apiaries and lots of experience have no need of information about types of extractors and methods of uncapping. You can easily take from this list what you find valuable and delete the rest. Donald Aitken 11710-129 Street Edmonton Alberta Canada T5M 0Y7 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 09:08:58 +-200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=F8rn_Johanesson?= Subject: SV: Yards.xlt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ---------- Fra: Allen Dick[SMTP:allend@internode.net] Sendt: 4. oktober 1997 14:29 Til: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Emne: Yards.xlt Jorn has already written me his comments privately and it is interesting to note that there is a large difference in focus between our approaches. Sorry my comment was just put on the yard.gif To be fair to you I also need the Yard.xlt if you want my comments on that. In basic I don't think there is that much difference in our approach, But he way we are going to reach the target is of course different, because we are different people. My strength is that I have a bounce of Beekeepers already helping me to lock out no important data, means date that of course have reading interest, but in practical is just extras. He feels that history of queens and families is important and I gather this is a main goal of his record system. Not quite correct, The daily work is most important including note taking, But I feel that taking as few notes as possible without loosing it usefulness will give more time for doing the practical Job. My software of course also gives the possibility for some of all that extras, but in fact only five or six criterias is important, because they have direct influence of the economical result, and those criterias you are facing in the daily work can eat up the time, that you have planed for other things. On the other hand, I feel that I simply need to know what my guys are doing and to be able to see what may have been overlooked This is of course also of interest. I mean if you mean the bees and not people helping you. It is of interest to do as little as possible, benefiting both the bees and the beekeeper. And for the experienced beekeeper it is mostly not needed to do more than taking a short look, maybe lift up one Brood frame and if things is normal on to the next hive. What is important to me is to have as homogeneous an apiary as possible, because then one thing needed to be done, also can be done on the other hives in the Yard. I know this is a dream, but there is no harm done in taking this in consideration. -- as well as what yards are performing well in wintering and production and which are not. This is what I feel is wrong. It is not fair to the bees to compare Yards to Yards. One Yard could have so bad conditions that it will 'fail' in harvest, but it could also be the most pleasant Yard to work with, and It could show the Yard that have paid best for the work You have done. a picture (Realistic) could be that you have in one Yard used five hours on a hive to get a result of 45 kg while you in another Yard have used eight hours on a hive to get 60 kg. I doubt that the last 15 kg is paid for. If you read this right you will find that I am concerned of the time I have to use on the production, because if I was living from keeping bees Payment for an hours work is important. I buy my queens these days, so breeding is not a concern. We evaluate different queen suppliers simply by marking the hives when installing queens and do not keep records. When we pull honey, or pick up deadouts in the spring the results are apparent. This is also a way to do it, but still I feel it is not fair to Your bees and to Your queen supplyer. I presuppose that your supplyers are doing the very best they can to deliver a first class product to You. If not, they should give up Queenbreeding and go back to be honey producers. I they supplye full mated queens, it is their responsibility, but if you get Virgins then the most responsibility is on your shoulders. Maybe everyone is intimidated by the huge array of data, I know I am, but I'm hoping some ideas will come from this on how to better manage it. Still as little as possible, becouse the time you are using filling out datasheets, is going away from the time you have for the family. regards Jorn A little advertisement : http://www.wn.com.au/apimo/product.htm :-) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 11:58:00 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Krell, Rainer (REUS)" Subject: Re: MAKING BEESWAX FOUNDATION MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT A few years ago a small Brazilian enterprise made hand driven plastic foundation rollers for something like 100 US$. Their address was or is: Cylindro Alveolador Apic. Ltda. (Cristiansen Hordao) CX Postal 455, R. Bernardino di Mareas 1467 Belo Horizonte, MG, Brazil Tel: 55-31-226 2190 Good luck Rainer Krell ---------- >From: null >To: Bestofbee >Subject: MAKING BEESWAX FOUNDATION >Date: Friday, October 03, 1997 5:26AM > >Return-Path: >Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 05:26:51 -0600 >From: Excerpts from BEE-L >Subject: MAKING BEESWAX FOUNDATION >To: Bestofbee@systronix.net >Reply-to: BEE-L >MIME-version: 1.0 >X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) >Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII >Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT >Priority: normal >X-ListMember: rainer.krell@fao.org [Bestofbee@systronix.net] >Comments: Authenticated sender is >----------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- --- >From: Murray Reid > >I am looking for information on beeswax foundation making moulds or >machines. Need name and address of relevant companies, phone, fax, and >e-mail etc. > >Interested in hand moulds ( like waffle makers) or hand cranked rollers >(that imprint sheets of plain wax off dipping boards), or presses (sheet >of wax is sandwiched between 2 plastic embossing panels and is squeezed >through a ringer or set of plain rollers) as well as commercial >sheeting and embossing machines. > >Have information on rollers from Tom Industries in the US, Leaf moulds >from Steele and Brodie in Scotland, as well as the range of Hertzog >moulds and machines. > >Murray Reid >Ministry of Agriculture >Private Bag 3080 >Hamilton >New Zealand fax 64 7 838-5846 > >reidm@ruakura.mqm.govt.nz > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 07:54:45 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: yves steinmetz Subject: Re: Yards.xlt Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear Allen, I obtain recently your Yards.xlt . No problems to download it. No to much time was needed. For me, this page is to large. Perhaps it will be easy to work fractioning the document. I'm able to do it myself. No problem. I think it will be important to have a litle manual, some explanations and the formulas. There are only few suggestions. I will like very much this document. Thank you. Yves Belgian born beequeeper ( 1300 hives ) from: Talca, Chile. Did you know something about BK-Economics? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Oct 1997 21:37:48 UT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Garry Libby Subject: Re: Plastic Foundation Comb Hello Allen, I purchased one hundred frames of uncoated Pierco frames last fall.When using them this past spring,some of the hives drew them right out,others would not.I coated the undrawn ones with melted beeswax using a foam paintbrush.They don't have to be heavily coated just be sure ton get a little on all of the surface.I made sure to get the top of the foundation area really well,also You have to move the brush quickly. Once I did this these frames were drawn twice as fast as even wax foundation.I think the odor of the fresh wax really attracts them.Also on a few I tried heating them in a warm oven,this helped a little,but the frames cooled quickly.Hope this helps,Good Luck, Garry Libby Boston,MA USA LibBEE@msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Oct 1997 22:50:07 -0700 Reply-To: ttownsen@telusplanet.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Townsend Organization: TPLR Honey Farms Subject: Re: Plastic Foundation Comb MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alan Norris wrote: > > I have just purchased some plastic frames with plastic foundation in them and was told that they will need coating with wax. > > I have tried painting hot beeswax on with a brush but it was not very successful, the wax sets as soon as it touches the plasic foudation. > > Is it really necessary to coat plastic foundation, if so any suggestions on how to do it. > > Thanks > Alan Norris Alan; It is quite difficult to coat the plastic foundation with wax, at the factory a hot wax spray is used to coat them. It isn't really required that they be coated with wax, the waxed frames work better, but the unwaxed ones still work, just a little slower as there is nothing to attract the bees to it. Bare plastic has no smell, at least no smell that would interest the bees. Some people dilute some honey in hot water and spray it on the frames, to give them an attractive aroma. Best applied just before putting the frames on the hives. Others have used sugar syrup. Some other people have melted beeswax in a tub of water large enough to submerse the frames into, the idea being that if there is a thin layer of molten beeswax on top of the water, immersing the frames will impart a thin coat of wax to them. Just be sure not to leave the frames in the hot water too long, as heat and plastic creat some strange combinations. There are alot of inventive ways of doing it, but they are not as good as the factory applied wax. Don't despair, your frames will still work uncoated, it will just take a little longer. Best of luck. Tim Townsend TPLR HONEY FARMS / PIERCO CANADA Stony Plain AB ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 09:09:57 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: William G Lord Subject: beeswax tests Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Can someone supply me with the chemical procedure to test for beeswax purity. I am told it is in the U.S. Pharmacoepea (sp?) but I cannot locate the reference. I am aware of the black light test, and am interested in the physics of that procedure. Bill Lord -- William G Lord E-Mail : wglord@franklin Internet: wglord@franklin.ces.ncsu.edu Phone : 9194963344 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 08:13:06 +0000 Reply-To: barry@birkey.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Organization: BIRKEY.COM Subject: Re: Yards.xls MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jerry - > So far my mail has yielded three pieces of software, one being marketed, > and two offered for free. With these exceptions, not only has no one else > indicated any interest in collaborating on providing some customized > software, but I have received some rather nasty comments that this is a > discussion list, not a software design group. Personally, I think software designed to help one manage their beekeeping operation is not off the mark for discussion on this list. My guess is that after repeated discussion on this topic with little response, one might conclude that most on this list don't have a need for a computer based beekeeping program. I know the last thing I need is another program that requires data to be gathered and input as I already spend too much time in front of my monitor with my database software that I use for my business. I would think this software would find the most usefulness amoung the commercial beekeepers on this list or those with large numbers of hives (more than 50). I don't think you should take the "silence" as being something directed at you. My silence isn't intended to throw cold water on your idea. I can't speak for those who did contact you privately as that is between you and them. Another factor is time. I imagine most people don't have much extra time right now to put into designing some custom software for something that probably isn't vital to their needs. Anyway, that's my take on this thread. Regards -Barry -- Barry Birkey West Chicago, Illinois USA barry@birkey.com http://www.birkey.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 10:53:01 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jim Moore Subject: Re: Yards.xls Jerry, I would be interested, as others might, however at this point there has been no ascii representation of the variables tracked by the various software packages. I was hoping that part of the brainstorming would be the ennumeration of the various pieces of information collected as well as the justification for keeping the information. As a non-commercial (5 hives) beekeeper my interest would be on the hive data points. A larger operation would be interested as well on the apiary information, work assignment information, pollination contracts, bee race, queen supplier, etc. etc. Maybe as a starting point for discussion hive specific data points could be listed and open for discussion. Regards, Jim Moore ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 10:59:59 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adam Finkelstein Organization: http://sunsite.unc.edu/bees Subject: Bee Book FAQ #1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE The Beekeeping Book Faq A short list of beekeeping and beekeeping related books. Contributions from sci.agriculture.beekeeping, bee-l and from real life. Contributors names are not included--if you want to know who suggested what book, e-mail me and I'll dig up the original e-mail I received. The books are listed by topic. This FAQ to be archived at The Internet Apiculture and Beekeeping Archive, posted to sci.agriculture.beekeeping and mailed to bee-l. Requests, comments, and queries can be sent to: adamf@sunsite.unc.edu *** Beginner Beekeeping Books: *** The best book for beginners is Richard Taylor's _HOW TO DO IT_. It is published by A.I.Root Company, Medina, Ohio 44256. For the beginner: _First_Lessons_in_Beekeeping_, Dadant Press. It's elementary, but covers all the bases that one needs to get started ( I think this one is confusing--Ed.) Walter Kelley's _How to Keep Bees and Sell Honey_. _The Beekeepers Handbook_, 1986, Sammmataro, D. and Avitable, Alphonse, New York, Macmillian, 1986. ISBN 0-02-081410-0. *** Practical Management Books *** (includes queen rearing, and comb honey production) _Beekeeping_ ...an Australian book, It was first published in Victoria, Australia, as _Beekeeping in Victoria_ , circa 1925. It has had a host of revisions since and has been expanded and revised. It is produced by the Agriculture Department. _HONEY BY THE TON_, by Oliver Field, of Berkshire, UK. Roger Morse and Ted Hooper's illustrated encyclopedia: _The Illustrated Encyclopedia of Beekeeping_. _The Art of Beekeeping_, William Hamilton (1945)Herald Printing Works. _Guide to Bees and Honey_, Ted Hooper, Rodale Press?? McGregor _Insect Pollination of Cultivated Crop Plants_. A basic refer= ence book, needs to be updated, but still the best there is. _Almond Pollination Handbook_, Joe Traynor . Some very practical tips on maximizing pollination on most any crop. _Beekeeping - A complete Owner's Manual_ ,by Werner Melzer. Published by Barron's ISBN 0-8120-4089-9. _Hive Management - A seasonal Guide for Beekeepers"_ by Richard E. Bonney, published by Garden Way Publishing, ISBN 0-88266-637-1. _The Hive and the Honey Bee_ , Dadant, (this is the seminal Beekeeping and Honey Bee reference book, Ed.) _The A,B,C's and X,Y,Z's of Beekeeping_, A.I. Root. (most valuable as an antique) is: The Practical Bee Guide -- A Manual of Modern Beekeeping by The Rev. J. G. Digges, M.A. (Expert, and Member of the Examining Board, Irish Beekeepers Association Editor , "Irish Bee Journal".)Published in 1910 it is a masterpiece of English Literature. _Honey_in_the_Comb_ by E. Killion. The title is unfortunate because the book is good for all beekeepers whether they intend to make comb honey or not. _Contemporary_Queen_Rearing_, Harry Laidlaw. _Beekeeping at Buckfast Abbey_ Brother Adam. _Breeding The Honeybee_ Brother Adam. *** Honey Bee Biology *** _The Hive and the Honeybee_ Dadant. _The Biology of the Honeybee_, Mark Winston, ISBN 0-674-07409-2 _The Honey Bee_, Gould and Gould, ISBN 0-7167-5023-6 (out of print?) *** Anecdotal or Narrative Beekeeping Books *** _Bees Are My Business _ Harry Whitcomb. _Following the Bloom_ by Douglas Whynott/1991 Beacon Press . _Bees and Their Keepers_ by Richard Trump/Iowa State U. Press,Ames 1987. _Mastering_the_Art_of_Beekeeping_ and _The_Art_and_Adventure_of_Beekeeping_ Both by Ormand Aebi. _The Book of Bees_ , Sue Hubbel. For entertainment with a beekeeping slant Gene Stratton- Porter. 1925 Doubleday _A Keeper of Bees_ is a slightly moralistic little tale for any aged reader. _50 Years Among the Bees_, .C.C. Miller. _The Bee Hunter_, James Fenimore Cooper. *** Children's Beekeeping Books *** _BEES_, Gallimard Jeunesse, Ute Fuhr, and Raoul Sautai A First Discovery Book, Scholastic Inc. New York Toronto London Auckland Sydney. *** Bee and Hive Products *** _Super Formulas_ , Elain C. White (Honey and wax recipies). _Beeswax and Candlemaking_ , Richard Taylor. *** Information that's not Management Related *** _Archeology of Beekeeping_, Eva Crane. _ A Book of Honey_ , Eva Crane. _American Honey Plants_, Frank Pellet. Note: Since there are myriad beekeeping books and references, and this was the first attempt to list some of them, from citizens on the Internet, THERE WILL UNDOUBTEDLY BE SOME GOOD BOOKS LEFT OUT. If you want to suggest a book, e-mail adamf@sunsite.unc.edu and I'll include the book next time. Finding these books: I'd suggest the library first, then your nearest University library. If you have a *borrowed book* you can see if you really want to purchase it by reading it. If you still want to purchase it, having the actual book in front of you gives all the necessary information to a book retailer on how to order the book. Some will be out of print, but can still be found with luck /digging. As a last resort, post to sci.agriculture.beekeeping and maybe someone there will be able to help. Happy reading, Adam adamf@sunsite.unc.edu This FAQ, Copyright =A9 Adam Finkelstein. All Rights Reserved. ___________________________________________________________________________ Adam Finkelstein Internet Apiculture and Beekeeping Archive adamf@sunsite.unc.edu http://www.sunsite.unc.edu/bees=20 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 12:01:42 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Richard Bonney Subject: Re: beeswax tests MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In his book "Beeswax" published in 1951, Huber H. Root describes a means to test for mineral wax in beeswax. It is based on the fact that microcrystalline mineral wax cannot be saponified, whereas beeswax can be. "One ounce of sodium or potassium hydroxide and 2 oz of wax are brought to a boil as rapidly as possible in 500cc of water. After the wax is melted, the liquid is allowed to boil one minute with violent agitation. The liquid id cooled, the aqueous solution drained off, and the container refilled with water - to the same level as before - and boiled for one minute. On cooling, any mineral wax or other nonsaponifiable wax will rise to the surface and solidify. Any undue extension of the boiling periods in this method may result in the breaking down of the mineral wax and affect the accuracy of tha results." He further recommends making up wax samples with known amounts of mineral wax to test the process. Coggshall and Morse in their 1984 book "Beeswax" give quite a bit of information on both chemical and physical characteristics of beeswax. They don't describe testing procedures. Have at it Dick Bonney rebonney@javanet.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 13:11:22 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Snow Subject: Best U.S. Location for apiary... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From a bee's standpoint, where would be the best location for a bee farm? I'm thinking Colorado. The wide viraty of temperate zones, along with the many wildflowers make Colorado seem a good choice. I lived in Alaska for fifteen years, and some of the best honey I ever had came from bees which had to be imported every year...not gonna be any Africanized bees up there unless they shop with Eddie Baur. Chemical question....I recently watched a program suggesting that the agressive AHB homes on the co2 contained in human breath....a tube that ventelated the breath away from the beekeeper seemed to keep the AHB from becomming agitated. I am in the Dallas Ft. Worth area. A friend and I are going to set up our first hives in Northern Alabama come spring. I am looking for information and exposure to beekeeping. I am also a Photographer....and will take pictures of your apiary in trade for info/materials. I'll be taking a photo trip to Ashville, NC....If you are in between DFW and Ashville drop me a note please... .thanks Jim Shepard bacafe@flash.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 16:12:02 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: The Bee Works Subject: Re: Yard Maintenance In-Reply-To: <971003143218_-1832287840@emout05.mail.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 3 Oct 97 at 14:38, Faith Andrews Bedford wrote: > In a message dated 97-10-03 07:33:11 EDT, you write: > > << if we could > only find some "green carpeting", it would look like grass, but > won't need > any > maintenance. >> > > > Any color carpet looks much better if you flip it upside down and > let the natural jute colored backing face up. Why not look out for some indoor-outdoor carpet, it's a nice green. Of course when it gets a little scruffy you could get the vacuum out!! ;-)) ******************************************* The Bee Works, 9 Progress Dr, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1 Phone/fax 705-326-7171 David Eyre, Owner. http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks e-mail ******************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 20:23:12 -0400 Reply-To: anscsche@entelchile.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andreas Sch|ck Organization: ENTEL Subject: Re: MAKING BEESWAX FOUNDATION MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Murray Reid wrote: > > I am looking for information on beeswax foundation making moulds or > machines. Need name and address of relevant companies, phone, fax, and > e-mail etc. > > Interested in hand moulds ( like waffle makers) or hand cranked rollers > (that imprint sheets of plain wax off dipping boards), or presses (sheet > of wax is sandwiched between 2 plastic embossing panels and is squeezed > through a ringer or set of plain rollers) as well as commercial > sheeting and embossing machines. > > Have information on rollers from Tom Industries in the US, Leaf moulds > from Steele and Brodie in Scotland, as well as the range of Hertzog > moulds and machines. > > Murray Reid > Ministry of Agriculture > Private Bag 3080 > Hamilton > New Zealand fax 64 7 838-5846 > > reidm@ruakura.mqm.govt.nz Dear Sir, we are a bigger wax foundation industrie in Chile. Each year we make near 60'000 Kgs of wax foundation for local beekeepers. We are in the bussines for more then 12 years. I told you that to support my suggestions about wax foundation machines: 1.- The best available machines are made by RIETSCHE from Germany: Rietsche Kunstwabenmaschinen Fax (07835) 8672 Biberach/Baden Germany. I can suggest you this machines with closed eyes. They work troubleless for many years.The cell quality is the best, the rollers are made from an special aluminium alloy. The wax hardly sticks on the rollers. 2.- About the machines from TOM INDUSTRIES I can tell you that they are the worst shit you can buy worldwide. I apologize for my unpolite language, but I don't know a word that fit's better for the garbage from TOM INDUSTRIES. Two years ago I made the big mistake to buy one. The rollers are made from lead !! with a thiny nickel bath, that will not last more then a couple of month. The roller bearings are quite unprotected. They will rust soon. The wax sticks easy on the rollers. We have made experiences with some other machines but the two I mentioned are the opposite: the best and the worst. Good luck, Andreas Schuck Mechanical Engineer & Beekeeper ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 22:29:02 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "W. G. Miller" Subject: Legal Requirements for Craft Fair Sales A recent incident in our area prompts me to ask the following questions of the group: When you sell honey at a craft show/street festival, are you required to get a permit from your local Board of Health? Is the situation the same if you sell honey at a roadside stand/farmer's market? To avoid list clutter, you can mail me your response at wgmiller@aol.com. Since the answers may vary with jurisdiction, please let me know what area you sell in. W. G. Miller Gaithersburg, MD ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 22:30:06 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "W. G. Miller" Subject: Converting a Colony from Deeps to Mediums MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="PART.BOUNDARY.0.24401.emout06.mail.aol.com.876191219" --PART.BOUNDARY.0.24401.emout06.mail.aol.com.876191219 Content-ID: <0_24401_876191219@emout06.mail.aol.com.15673> Content-type: text/plain The attached file, CONVERT.RTF, describes how we convert a colony from 2 deeps to 3 mediums. It is based on Central Maryland conditions. W. G. Miller Gaithersburg, MD --PART.BOUNDARY.0.24401.emout06.mail.aol.com.876191219 Content-ID: <0_24401_876191219@emout06.mail.aol.com.15674> Content-type: text/plain; name="CONVERT.RTF" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable {\rtf1\ansi \deff0{\fonttbl{\f16\froman Times New Roman;}}{\colortbl;\red= 0\green0\blue0;\red0\green0\blue255;\red0\green255\blue255;\red0\green255= \blue0;\red255\green0\blue255;\red255\green0\blue0;\red255\green255\blue0= ;\red128\green128\blue128;\red255\green255\blue255;\red0\green0\blue128;\= red0\green128\blue128;\red0\green128\blue0;\red128\green0\blue128;\red128= \green0\blue0;\red192\green192\blue192;\red0\green0\blue0;}\paperh15844\p= aperw12244\ftnbj \sectd\footery1080\pard \plain\b\f16 Converting a Colony= form Deeps to Mediums\par \par \plain\f16 \tab \tab \tab \tab \tab \tab = \tab \tab \tab Bill Miller\par \par \tab This technique is used in Centra= l Maryland, where March and April are our hive build-up months, and our m= ain nectar flow is May and early June. Appropriate adjustments will be = necessary in areas with different conditions.\par \par \plain\b\f16 First= Year:\plain\f16 It is early April. You have a hive in two deeps that = you wish to convert to three mediums. You have no mediums with drawn com= b.\par \par At supering time, instead of supering normally, you put a med= ium box in between the two deep hive bodies. As the nectar flow progress= es and the first medium is drawn out, put a second medium box with undraw= n foundation on top of the first medium box (and under the deep on top. = The bees will fill the deep as your super; harvest it when capped and re= tire the box.\par \par This is as far as you will be able to go in a norm= al Maryland year. Once the deep in harvested, the colony goes through t= he rest of the year as two mediums over a deep.\par \par \plain\b\f16 Sec= ond Year: \plain\f16 Again at supering time, put an undrawn medium box o= ver top of the two drawn mediums, and put the deep over the mediums as a = super. Place any additional supers under the deep. At harvest time, t= ake off the deep (and other supers) and you will be left with the colony = in three mediums.\par \par \plain\b\f16 Note:\plain\f16 If you have med= ium boxes with drawn comb, you can put them on in early April and finish = the job in a single year.\par \par W. G. Miller\par Gaithersburg, MD\par = \par } --PART.BOUNDARY.0.24401.emout06.mail.aol.com.876191219-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 21:44:43 -0500 Reply-To: cspacekAflash.net@flash.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: curtis spacek Subject: Re: Plastic Foundation Comb MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit wax can be applied to plastic foundation by using a metal tanked garden sprayer.heat the wax to wellabove the melting point iand pour into a garden sprayer,pump it up and set the nozzle to a fine spray and have at it.its a good idea to hang the frames so that all can be done before the wax cools.if this happens pit the sprayer in a bucket of boiling water to re-heat.this method also works great for rustproofing your truck which was a common practice in our family.we never did have any rust holes in uor vehicles. I've noticed that some people tend to get a bit offended when their particular level of intelect is surpassed.espacially if they are sure they know it all. good flows to all AHB's can make good guard dogs for unattended apiaries ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 22:38:31 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Steve & Gail Subject: Re: aspen leaves Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >the aspen trees are turning and getting ready for winter --- however they >are alive with bees gathering what looks like dot size grains of yellow - >on the underside of the leaf only and are packing the brood nest with >it... It is not honeydew or nectar --- thought at first it was sort of >insect excreta? has anyone else seen this --- south central B.C. area.. > any ideas? where can I send leaf for examination?? > Sue, On a hunch, I consulted a monograph entitled 'Tree Rusts of Western Canada' by Wolf Ziller (1974). What you have observed your bees packing into the brood nest is one spore stage (out of five total) of a conifer-aspen rust. As is typical of many rusts, this one completes its life cycle by alternating between two hosts. The urediniospore stage causes yellow leaf spot and premature defoliation of trembling aspen. In the spring, a different spore form develops and depending on location, may infect a variety of conifer hosts such as Douglas fir, pine, fir, spruce and hemlock. This parasite does significant damage to conifer and apen seedling stocks in nurseries. I confirmed much of this information in a phone conversation with Brenda Pallan, a forest pathologist at the Pacific Forest Research Centre in Victoria. She said this behavior of bees has been documented in the literature. Just for interest, the formal name of this fungus is Melampsora medusae. From the bees viewpoint, it's a source of protein! Cheers, Steve Steve Mitchell 4820 Wilson Rd. RR7 Duncan, BC V9L 4W4 (250)746-9916 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 08:31:09 +-200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=F8rn_Johanesson?= Subject: Pollen grain database /beeplant flora Comments: cc: skand-bi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have no prepared this for download from http://www.wn.com.au/apimo the software is free software but I will ask you to register it because I am curious about the interest. The pollen database has been developed with help from a lot of people and I have to give a big 'Thank You'. Especially to the members of BeeNet with special thanks to John White, England for the excellent pollen helpfile, to Dr. Malcolm T. Stanford for the pollen pictures from Florida and to Durk Ellison for the tremendous work he has put in this project. (around 8000 Latin names in the database and a lot of pollen grain pictures, that are delivered separately). A lot of other people have been engaged in this project too and I am here giving a big THANK YOU to all of You! The Pollen database has been developed for those beekeepers who are interested in knowing the source of their honey. It is also suitable for building up your own Beeplant Flora. You can, by adding pictures, build your own local database, but be warned : The pictures must be in Windows BMP format, and four pictures occupies around 1mb of your diskspace. The best of it is, that this software is free of charge. The only thing we will ask of you is that you help us to improve the database by sending us the information and pictures you add yourself, so that we can build up a CD with this software, containing as many pictures as possible. Best regards Jorn Johanesson apimo@post4.tele.dk ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 16:27:22 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Whitney S. Cranshaw" Subject: Re: Best U.S. Location for apiary... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>From a bee's standpoint, where would be the best location for a bee farm? > >I'm thinking Colorado. I hope that there is someplace better for bees than Colorado. Looking at USDA statistics we have lost a higher percentage of colonies in the last 3 years than any state with the possible exception of Arizona. This is likely largely due to mite problems, in my estimation. However, there have been 3 years of late spring freezes that killed spring bloom, alternating excessively wet and very dry spring conditions, and some concerns about spraying for alfalfa weevil that also may be involved. Look to the honey production statistics. The Dakotas and upper midwest look pretty darn good to me. Whitney Cranshaw Ft. Collins, CO 10 hives ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 08:10:02 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "FLORENCE COOPER, RN" Subject: biology/physics question My son is a sixth grader and was asked to find furthur information about the following by his teacher: "Bees use certain wavelengths of light to find their way between sources of food and their hive. Use a reference source to find more information about this." We consulted THE HIVE AND THE HONEYBEE and found only a few oblique references to the above and nothing that really explained it. I would really appreciate input from the list regarding this. Thank you, Florence and Mark Cooper 1st year beekeepers, 1 hive Jackson, Mississippi USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 11:07:31 -0700 Reply-To: acuell@hooked.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Armando G. Cuellar, Jr." Organization: ALACO District Attorney Subject: Re: biology/physics question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The latest research indicates that bees use infrared light to navigate and locate food sources. This is probably what the teacher was looking for. Don't have a source for the research, however. FLORENCE COOPER, RN wrote: > My son is a sixth grader and was asked to find furthur information > about the > following by his teacher: "Bees use certain wavelengths of light to > find their > way between sources of food and their hive. Use a reference source to > find > more information about this." We consulted THE HIVE AND THE HONEYBEE > and found > only a few oblique references to the above and nothing that really > explained > it. I would really appreciate input from the list regarding this. > > Thank you, > > Florence and Mark Cooper > 1st year beekeepers, 1 hive > Jackson, Mississippi > USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 15:48:00 EDT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "George W.D. Fielder" Subject: FW: biology/physics question BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU ++++ >The latest research indicates that bees use infrared light to navigate >and locate food sources. This is probably what the teacher was looking >for. I think that you mean ultraviolet, which I have read that bees use to locate the exact position of the sun (even through clouds). As I understand it, Bees do not see the far red (Infra Red) and not even as far red as we see, thus a red light can be used in the dark without making them fly. .. george ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 09:23:10 +1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andrew Matheson Subject: Extractor speeds Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Recent discussion on extractor speeds prompted me to look up something I wrote (in 1981!) on spinner speeds. To compare different spinners (or extractors) it isn't enough to simply work out the radial speed, but you need to calculate the g-force at the rime as some contributors have pointed out. The force at the drum (or RCF: relative centrifugal force) is proportional to the radius of the drum (or baskets) and the rotational speed squared. The formula is RCF equals the radius in millimetres times the square of the rotational speed in revolutions per minute, both divided by 90,000. For example, a spinner (or extractor basket) of radius 600 mm rotating at 200 rpm will exert of force of 27 g or 27 time the force of gravity (26.67 actually). ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 17:08:24 -0400 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" Organization: Independent non-profit research Subject: Re: biology/physics question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Miss Cooper: You wont find anyone better than the writings of Karl Von Frisch on this subject. I suggest that you go to a public library and enjoy a couple of hours of delightful reading about his works. Best regards. Dr. Rodriguez Virginia Beach, VA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 17:18:28 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: The Bee Works Subject: Re: LOCK MITRE JOINT ON SUPERS In-Reply-To: <971004052418_742360550@emout15.mail.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 4 Oct 97 at 5:24, Steve Newcomb wrote: > Has anyone had any experience using a "lock mitre" type of joint for > the corners of supers? This joint can be cut in one pass with a > router table. I have used this type of joint in the past. Not for bee boxes. It does produce a remarkebly strong right angle joint, which must be a good step in the right direction. The glue we use all the time is fairly new, LePages 'Weather Grip' waterproof etc and a lot cheaper than Gorilla glue. ******************************************* The Bee Works, 9 Progress Dr, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1 Phone/fax 705-326-7171 David Eyre, Owner. http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks e-mail ******************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 18:09:09 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Maritza T. Abril Castillo" Subject: Insect fossil record MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hello fellows, Does anybody could give me some advise about where I should look for information on insect fossil record? I would be very thankful for your help. Best regards, Maritza Tatiana Abril Castillo University of Southern Mississippi e-mail mabril@ocean.st.usm.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 19:47:08 -0500 Reply-To: cspacekAflash.net@flash.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: curtis spacek Subject: Re: biology/physics question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I could have sworn I read that bees can't see in the red spectrum,but see ultra violet waves.photographs of several flowers under an ultra violet light revealed pigments which form rays (lines) which piont to the center of the flower.as an added note the text (on loan to a fellow beekeeper) also cited ultra-violet light waves penetrate cloud cover enabling bees to actually see the sun through the clouds on overcast days. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 20:56:42 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: biology/physics question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi My 2 cents worth, and that's an overstatement ....;) Don't bees see polarized light and that makes them able to find the sun even on a cloudy day? I'll leave the scientific explanation to someone else. Ian Watson realtor@niagara.com real estate agent gardener baritone beekeeper---> 11 colonies and counting ---------- > From: curtis spacek > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Re: biology/physics question > Date: Tuesday, October 07, 1997 8:47 PM > > I could have sworn I read that bees can't see in the red spectrum,but > see ultra violet waves.photographs of several flowers under an ultra > violet light revealed pigments which form rays (lines) which piont to > the center of the flower.as an added note the text (on loan to a fellow > beekeeper) also cited ultra-violet light waves penetrate cloud cover > enabling bees to actually see the sun through the clouds on overcast > days.