========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Nov 1997 21:06:05 -0900 Reply-To: beeman@Alaska.NET Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom & Carol Elliott Organization: Home Subject: Re: school report on AHBs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Carlos, I have asked the question on this list that you ask. Is there any breeding work being done on AHB to select for a less aggressive nature. A lot of work has been done on section of the European Honeybee, why not the Africanized? There are strains of AHB that do not show the extreme defensiveness which creates the fear. Let's have some work done to provide AHB that can be handled with the ease of the Europeans and can compete with the Africanized drones for mating. I agree with your feeling that this could work. I have yet to see anyone but myself post anything on this topic on BEE-L until you did. I am glad to hear from you. Tom -- "Test everything. Hold on to the good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21) Tom Elliott Chugiak, Alaska U.S.A. beeman@alaska.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 Nov 1997 14:21:37 -0600 Reply-To: cspacekAflash.net@flash.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: curtis spacek Subject: Re: Heating 5 gallon pails MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A freind of mine uses an old refrigerator with an air conditioner thermostat replacing the door light switch set to 105deg.F.it holds 2 five gal buckets easily.There are also plans for a heater box at barry birky"s page.uses a light bulb for heat source. bee careful,a 100w bulb wired to stay on constantly will melt the plastic liner in the refrigerator. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 23:12:50 +1200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Lewis Subject: Re: Queen breeding MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01BCF21B.FE2AFC40" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BCF21B.FE2AFC40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Tom, Did you get any direct replies on the jenter system quarry you posted? I am interested in trying to breed my own queens and was wondering about this system too. John lewis Fiji ---------- > From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Queen breeding > Date: Tuesday, October 28, 1997 7:25 AM > > Hi All > > I have recently come across a jenter system for queen breeding. > > I do not fully follow the system as outlined. > > I am wondering if there is a detailed account of this system available. > > Thanks for any input to this request. > > Sincerely > > Tom Barrett > 49 South Park > Foxrock > Dublin 18 > Ireland > > e mail: cssl@iol.ie ------=_NextPart_000_01BCF21B.FE2AFC40 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello Tom,

Did you get any = direct replies on the jenter system quarry you posted?

I am = interested in trying to breed my own queens and was wondering about this = system too.

John lewis
Fiji


----------
> = From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd <cssl@iol.ie>
> = To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU
> Subject: Queen breeding
> Date: = Tuesday, October 28, 1997 7:25 AM
>
> Hi All
> =
> I have recently come across a jenter system for queen = breeding.
>
> I do not fully follow the system as = outlined.
>
> I am wondering if there is a detailed account = of this system available.
>
> Thanks for any input to this = request.
>
> Sincerely
>
> Tom Barrett
> = 49 South Park
> Foxrock
> Dublin 18
> Ireland
> =
> e mail: cssl@iol.ie

------=_NextPart_000_01BCF21B.FE2AFC40-- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 18:21:40 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Brett D Bannon Subject: Allergy Alternatives Reading an alternative medicine book, I discovered that they recommended chewing fresh beeswax to help with allergies related to pollen. I have observed bees collecting pollen from Koshia and Pigweed. Has anyone observed bees collecting from Ragweed. Has anyone had experience with this remedy and any results. Brett D. Bannon Folsom, NM USA bbannon@juno.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 21:18:16 -0600 Reply-To: BEEMAN52@worldnet.att.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ken Lawrence Subject: Uncapper MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Folks: Looking for any info for a friend who is looking to buy a Pennrose Uncapper. Any thoughts about this Uncapper would be appreciated. Ken ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 23:17:26 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Patrick & Mary Caldwell Subject: Looking for California Bee Forage Plants MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hello all... I am a "newbee" who will be starting my first hives (Buckfast) in the Spring here in Northern California (northeast San Franciso Bay area). I will be putting the hives in my backyard, which isn't very large. Even so, I have a pretty nice garden, and have taken a great deal of care in selecting plants that will attract bees, butterflies, hummingbirds, etc. There are a lot of interesting plants in our area (we have star thistle not too far away on the local hills, and I hear that makes great honey), but since I don't have acreage of any kind, I was wondering what I could put in my backyard (or front for that matter) that would be a good nectar source for my bees. I already have a nice herb garden that was well worked by honeybees this summer, especially the oregano and lavender. Interestingly, the anise hyssop and borage didn't attract any honeybees, only bumblebees and carpenter bees. I read in this month's American Bee Journal that the shrub/tree Vitex negundo was a great choice for beekeepers short on space. However, I can't seem to find a source for it. Anyone have any ideas? Apparently, it is easily grown from seed, but I'd be interested in a grower I could buy a tree from. I am planning on putting in a bunch of raspberry plants, which I understand bees like (besides, I love raspberries!). I already have blackberries and boysenberries planted, and plan to put in more (especially on the other side of the fence behind where my hive will be). I have a Meyer lemon tree that was well-worked by carpenter bees this year, as well as a blood orange tree. Do honeybees forage on rose bushes? I have an eglantine (sweet briar) rose that the bumblebees went nuts over this year... was wondering if honeybees would go for my roses as well. Would a basswood tree do well in my area? Any other ideas to give my bees lots to have fun with in my yard (and a little honey for me)? I looked in "The Hive and the Honey Bee" where they have a section on bee forage, but it was a little too dry to glean information from, at least for me. I have subscribed to the Bee-L for over a year now, and have appreciated the discussions and information I have received. I have especially enjoyed Andy Nachbar's wit and wisdom, and the willingness for people to be so helpful with those of us new to beekeeping. (The only thing I don't enjoy are the occasional "flame fests," but then, I just hit the old delete key on those...) Thanks in advance for your help! Mary Caldwell Benicia, CA A new beekeeper in '98! MPCEnterprises@mci2000.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 21:23:52 +0100 Reply-To: drs@kulmbach.baynet.de Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dr. Reimund Schuberth" Subject: Re: Queen breeding Comments: cc: lewis@suva.is.com.fj MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hallo Lewis, let me give you an answer to your question according the JENTER-system. I'm a bee breeder of Carniolan bees in Germany and I'm using a similar equipment for breeding my queens. It is named NICOT-system a little cheaper. In my opinion it's all right with both systems according offering some advantages and little disadvantages. 1. It is a very simple equipment you can easily use for rearing queens. Bees don't mind that it is artificial plastic material. 2. Prices for this product are relatively low. You save time because you don't have to make your own queen cells. 3. If you use the cell-box in which you can lock up the breeding queen you are spared to put the larvas from worker cells to the queen cells. This may be a little difficult for elder people whose eyesight is not so good. 4. If you take care of the time and don't want to rear up to many queens it is very easy to cage the queen cells with the protection cages and let them hatch in the bee-colony where you are rearing queen cells. If you try any of the systems please inform me about your experience. Yours sincerely Reimund S. #### beekeeping - Carniolan queens - insemination station ### > Hello Tom, > > Did you get any direct replies on the jenter system quarry you posted? > > I am interested in trying to breed my own queens and was wondering > about this system too. > > John lewis > Fiji > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 22:18:04 +0100 Reply-To: drs@kulmbach.baynet.de Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dr. Reimund Schuberth" Subject: Re: Heating 5 gallon pails MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here in Germany we use different methods of heating honey. One of the best is to my opinion that one of the MELITHERM. (I'm not sponsored by anybody the manufacturer!) MELITHERM is a kind of stainless steel pot with a flat immersion heater instead of the ground. The crystallized honey is filled in it and is liquified while passing by the heater and dropping in a container under the pot. The advantage of this method is honey is heatet only a short time. The gentleness of treatment and heating can be measured. Enzymes of the honey are nearly as intact as before the heating. HMF-number increases not very much by this handling. Reimund beekeeping - queens - insemination station MR WILLIAM L HUGHES JR. wrote: > > I have several 5 gallon pails that have crystallized. Instead of > buying one of those expensive pail heating bands I was wondering if > pipe warming tape that you use to keep your pipes from freezing would > work. Has any one tried this. > > Bill Hughes > Brighton, Tennessee USA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 21:41:12 +0100 Reply-To: drs@kulmbach.baynet.de Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dr. Reimund Schuberth" Subject: planting borage Comments: To: jmortier@uniserve.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I can confirm that the plant phacelia is a very good producer of honey for the bees here in Germany. Furthermore it has a very long period of flowering. Reimund from Germany beekeeping - queens - insemination ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 02:50:01 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbar Subject: Re: Looking for California Bee Forage Plants In-Reply-To: <01IQ2798SFC60039LV@MAIL-RELAY.PCY.MCI.NET> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello Mary, I have fawn memories of Benicia and the time I spent there behind bars and locked up during WW II at boarding school planning the "great escape" and catching my first honeybees off the wildflowers that come each spring. Did not make good my escape so well planned by my 2nd and 3rd grade classmates, we were going to run off and dig gold out of the hills, but I did get a few bee stings and my knuckles rapped more then once by the black cape'd guards who were nuns for picking the bees off the flowers and a few other's pockets. Your area should have adequate spring wildflowers to build up your hive and any flowering plants you have in your garden will be enjoyed by your bees and give yourself great pleasure watching them work. One beehive will work the flowers of your and your neighbors yards for several miles and may produce in the summer a crop of very nice Yellow Star Thistle honey which is mild flavored and light in color and is considered by many the best. You may also have Blue Gum and other eucalyptus trees in your area that also can produce some surplus honey during the late winter and early spring. It also is light in color and has the distinct flavor of all eucalyptus honey produced in California and kind of grows on you. One of my favorite honey's is Sage-Blue Gum mixed by the bees which my bees produced when I was a teen ager and should have been chasing girls and not swarms. Vitex grows good here in Central California and grows into a very large almost small tree sized bush. I would not plant it unless I had room for a large hedge, ours is almost as big as the Russian olive trees planted at the same time. The bees do work it but I have never seen any honey from it. It also can be the subject of attack by strangers because it's leaves can easily be mistaken for Mary Jane or Wacky Tobacco. I have myself dried the leaves and tried to smoke them but ended up using it in my smoker for fuel. ttul, the OLd Drone -- (c) Permission is granted to freely copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w) Opinions are not necessarily facts. Use at own risk. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 11:17:40 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Speight MIME-Version: 1.0 SEARCH BEE-L Queen rearing -- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 15:28:57 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: AHB Project Tom Elliot wrote: >I have asked the question on this list that you ask. Is there any >breeding work being done on AHB to select for a less aggressive >nature. >A lot of work has been done on section of the European Honeybee, why >not >the Africanized? There are strains of AHB that do not show the >extreme >defensiveness which creates the fear. Let's have some work done to >provide AHB that can be handled with the ease of the Europeans and >can compete with the Africanized drones for mating. >I agree with your feeling that this could work. I have yet to see >anyone but myself post anything on this topic on BEE-L until you did. >I am glad to hear from you. Hi Tom and All I like this quote and think that appliied to life it can only make things better. >"Test everything. Hold on to the good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21) On the topic of gentler A.m.scut's (the AHB) there have been some breeders here in southern africa that have had reasonable succes with this. The Zimbabwean government had as it's chief extension apiculturist a man by the name of Mike Schmalke(Sp??) (am trying to get hold of him as have heard he has just got e-mail). He has for many years bred bees using various techniques from AI to cleariiing feral populations for many kilometers around his breeding zones. My girlfriend has seen him open and move frames around in one of his favourite african bee hives without even using smoke. My only concern with this is that there is the danger that if one does breed the african bee in north america people may import new stock from africa, and given the encroachment of the Cape bee (see Andy's newsflash from the previous post - I think when last I read a figure that this has resulted in over 250 000 beehives having to be gassed) that cape bee genes would be introduced into the population - with drastic consequences for the bee industry. There is also a person working at the Rand Afrikaans University using Artificial insemination to breed AHB resistant to the Cape Bee. I gather he is trying to elevate the level of certain pheremones produced by the bees, so as to make them more resistant to the cape bees who have workers who exude more queen pheremones than other bees. One then has to wonder whether once these bees are released if they will not then have workers who smell like queens (just like the cape bees), or if with the elevated queen pheremones in workers whether they will develop ovaries as easily (I have had a hive where I accidentally killed the queen that had laying workers in full force two days later). Then will these super bees spread through the remaining AHB just like the cape bees have, reducing the biodiversity when the wild hives take on one of these bees as a queen and she only lays drone eggs? Just a few thoughts. Keep well Garth (With any movement of a species there is always a wildcard or two released)--- Garth Cambray Kamdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Apis melifera capensis Grahamstown 800mm annual precipitation 6139 Eastern Cape South Africa Phone 27-0461-311663 3rd year Biochemistry/Microbiology Rhodes University In general, generalisations are bad. Interests: Flii's and Bees. Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this post in no way reflect those of Rhodes University. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 08:33:27 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "David S. Adams" Subject: Re: Source for Clear Bears Gamber containers Lancaster,PA 717-393-1716 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 23:39:10 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John M Thorp Subject: Re: Bees in News Thank You for your gleanings Andy---keep up the good work. Take Care and GBY,John in Homestead,also at ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 10:22:27 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "MR WILLIAM L HUGHES JR." Subject: Temp at which bees fly. All, Yesterday the air temp never got over 40 degrees F. I noticed that were I had emptied my wax rendering pot bee were swarming around to get to the honey. I noticed that all of them where Carniolan. I observed them coming and going from their hives. There was no activity from the Italian colonies. How cold does it have to get for Carniolan bees to stop foraging. Bill Hughes Brighton, Tennessee USA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 13:05:26 -0500 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" Organization: Independent non-profit research Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 12 Nov 1997 to 13 Nov 1997 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Garth. I respect your thoughts and admire your thinking ability. Please do not think for a second that I am opposed to your expressed opinions. I just think that opinions may have unintended consequences. I think that the last line on your post does a great disservice to the beekeeping industry in particular and to humanity in general. Beekeeping goes far beyond eating honey by sensitive consumers. Best regards. Dr. Rodriguez ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 21:19:43 +1300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Organization: Bay of Plenty Polytechnic Subject: Re: Best of Bee-L MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Re: Searching the BEE-L archives --------------------------------- > How about those who get email but no web access. (Like the 1,000,000+ > people that use free Juno email?) Then you've got it just that much easier! I didn't mean to make it seem that the WWW address was the only way to search BEE-L. The search, in fact, IS by email - the WWW page only makes it a bit more user friendly for some users. Here are the specific instructions for searching BEE-L for those with email access only: ================================ SEARCHING THE BEE-L LOG FILES ================================ It is possible to search BEE-L using a WWW browser at the site: http://www.reference.com but the list of BEE-L archives here only go back to March 1997. You can search for a particular word and retrieve all the messages that contain that word (Warning: If it isn't a very 'rare' word, you'll get a large response that may still be cut off because of its massive size! - Use this option only for a word that you think would be pretty 'unusual') ---------------------------------------- To search for keywords in the log files ---------------------------------------- Send a message to LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU with these lines in the BODY of the message: //SEARCH JOB ECHO=YES DATABASE SEARCH DD=RULES CPULIM=10:000 OUTLIM=6000 //RULES DD * SEARCH keyword keyword keyword IN BEE-L INDEX PRINT in the BODY of the message. Replace the words 'keyword' with the word(s) you want to search for. The words needn't form a phrase - the search will be over the whole message to determine if it contains all the keywords. You'll receive a list of the messages that contain the keyword and then a copy of each message. ------------------------------------------------------ To search for keywords and get a list of the messages ------------------------------------------------------ Send a message to LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU with these lines in the BODY of the message: //SEARCH JOB ECHO=YES DATABASE SEARCH DD=RULES CPULIM=10:000 OUTLIM=6000 //RULES DD * SEARCH keyword keyword IN BEE-L INDEX in the BODY of the message replacing 'keyword' with the word(s) to search for. You'll receive a list of the messages that contain the keyword. You can then request any individual message as below. ------------------------------------------------------ To retrieve an individual message from the BEE-L logs ------------------------------------------------------ Send a message to LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU with these lines in the BODY of the message: //SEARCH JOB ECHO=YES DATABASE SEARCH DD=RULES CPULIM=10:000 OUTLIM=6000 //RULES DD * SEARCH * IN BEE-L PRINT xxxx, xxxx, xxxx in the BODY of the message. Replace 'xxxx' with the index number of the message(s) you want to have sent to you. ----------------------------------------------------------- Using dates to limit the period searched in the BEE-L logs ----------------------------------------------------------- Send a message to LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU with these lines in the BODY of the message: //SEARCH JOB ECHO=YES DATABASE SEARCH DD=RULES CPULIM=10:000 OUTLIM=6000 //RULES DD * SEARCH keyword IN BEE-L SINCE date INDEX in the BODY of the message. Replace 'keyword' with the search word and 'date' with the beginning date for your search. The following date/time examples are valid: FROM 14 july TO oct 96 SINCE 96 UNTIL 23-JUN-96 SINCE today 11:30 -------------------------------------------------------- To search the SUBJECT line for a word in the BEE-L logs -------------------------------------------------------- Send a message to LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU with these lines in the BODY of the message: //SEARCH JOB ECHO=YES DATABASE SEARCH DD=RULES CPULIM=10:000 OUTLIM=6000 //RULES DD * SEARCH * IN BEE-L - WHERE SUBJECT CONTAINS 'subjword' INDEX in the BODY of the message. Replace 'subjword' with the word you want to search the logs for. Notice it is enclosed in single quote marks. Notice too how in the lines above the line beginning SEARCH was too long to put on a single line, so it has a hyphen at the end of the first line and the next line has a space as the first character. --------------------------------------------------- To get a list of messages from a particular person --------------------------------------------------- You need to first get a list of the people on the list (see under BEE-L heading above) to make sure you know the exact address to search for. Then send a message to LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU with these lines in the BODY of the message: //SEARCH JOB ECHO=YES DATABASE SEARCH DD=RULES CPULIM=10:000 OUTLIM=6000 //RULES DD * SEARCH * IN BEE-L WHERE SENDER CONTAINS (who@where.com) INDEX in the BODY of the message. Replace 'who@where.com' with the email address you want to search for. Notice it is enclosed in parentheses. (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- home nickw@beekeeping.co.nz (/ work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz NZ Beekeeping http://www.beekeeping.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 21:21:00 +1300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Organization: Bay of Plenty Polytechnic Subject: Re: Best of Bee-L MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Oops... Just realised this was asking about Best of Bee, not searching the BEE-L logs as I replied just now. So here is the info on that... > How about those who get email but no web access. (Like the 1,000,000+ > people that use free Juno email?) ================ 'BEST OF BEE' ================ After reading the volume of mail from BEE-L for awhile, you may want to cut it down by subscribing to 'Best of Bee' instead... Subscribing to 'Best of Bee' will bring you only selected and edited posts from BEE-L. Designed for experienced or professional beekeepers and others who wish to avoid very basic discussions, chatter, flames, misdirected posts, long quotes and 'me too' responses but still track the significant activity on the BEE-L mailing list. Articles from APIS-L and sci.agriculture.beekeeping also appear from time to time. IMPORTANT: You will still need your BEE-L subscription if you wish to post to BEE-L, since the only way to get a post to Best of Bee is through posting a message on BEE-L. -------------------------------- To learn more about Best of Bee -------------------------------- Send a message to BEES@SYSTRONIX.NET with the words SEND BESTBEE as the SUBJECT of the message. --------------------------------------------------- To read the Best of Bee editorial/selection policy --------------------------------------------------- Send a message to BEES@SYSTRONIX.NET with the words SEND CRITERIA as the SUBJECT of the message. ---------------------------- To subscribe to Best of Bee ---------------------------- Send a message to HONEYBEE@SYSTRONIX.NET with the words JOIN BESTOFBEE you@whatever.com in the BODY of the message (replace 'you@whatever.com' with your email address). If you are a BEE-L subscriber and you can 'turn off' BEE-L without losing the privilege of posting to BEE-L in response to the messages received on 'Best of Bee'. Remember that if you want to REPLY to messages you read in BEE-L or Best of Bee, you must be a current subscriber to BEE-L. This option allows you to be a subscriber, but just not get any mail. ------------------------------------------------ To remain on BEE-L without getting the messages ------------------------------------------------ Send a message to LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU with the words SET BEE-L NOMAIL in the BODY of the message. -------------------------------- To unsubscribe from Best of Bee -------------------------------- Send a message to HONEYBEE@SYSTRONIX.NET with the words LEAVE BESTOFBEE in the BODY of the message. (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- home nickw@beekeeping.co.nz (/ work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz NZ Beekeeping http://www.beekeeping.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 09:15:48 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John M Thorp Subject: Re: Looking for California Bee Forage Plants Greetings Mary, Its enjoyable knowing the excitement you're experiencing with the anticipation of upcoming events concerning your new experience in one of lifes many pleasures. Looking back over the years having just a handfull of hives was clearly, at least for me, more enjoyable. This is one business where increase is no problem. Clearly , Father gives the increase in whatever we put our hand to. Bee blessed in your new adventure. Being if like mind concerning "flamings" ,I probably wouldn't even have a computer with all its advantages if they were required reading and we didn't have a delete key. I wonder, how brave most of these flamers would be face to face? If you haven't already check with your local USDA for forage sources. Theirs also got to bee a local beekeeping assn. for you to plug into. But for Q. & A's round table discussions this is a good place too. Nothing like eyeball to eyeball though. Take Care and GBY,John in Homestead,also at ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 15:48:25 -0900 Reply-To: beeman@Alaska.NET Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom & Carol Elliott Organization: Home Subject: Re: AHB Project MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Garth, I appreciate your response. There is a good point there in connection with importation of additional strains from outside the USA. Within the population of AHB in the Americas, however, there is adequate diversity of behavior with which to work. There is no need to import anything. It is my impression from the responses I get from within the USA that there is either no interest in such an approach (possibly due to funding problems) or no one has quite gotten around to it. The whole thing is mainly of academic interest to me, since even the temperate climate adapted EHB does not easily survive here in Alaska. It simply seems to me that many of the reasons that AHB has an advantage are now understood - earlier mating flights of AHB drones, etc. - and to breed for low agressive behaviour in AHB and to breed for earlier mating flights in EHB (would give us a good edge. Communities like Santa Barbara, California have, I understand, completely banned the keeping of honeybees. It seems to me that what they will accomplish is to limit their honeybee population, in the long run, to AHB. This is the reverse of what they are intending. Thanks for your input, Tom -- "Test everything. Hold on to the good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21) Tom Elliott Chugiak, Alaska U.S.A. beeman@alaska.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 21:33:31 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Patrick & Mary Caldwell Subject: Re: Looking for California Bee Forage Plants MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi John! Thank you so much for your kind message; I really appreciate it! I truly am looking forward to starting beekeeping, even though my husband thinks it's a little odd, he is still supporting me... I have spoken with my local beekeeping association, and that's how I know about star thistle and eucalyptus, but I was wondering what I could put in my yard for my bees, since I wasn't sure how far the bees would go for nectar and pollen. God is indeed good, and it sounds like he has blessed you in your beekeeping endeavors. I am looking forward to this as a hobby right now, but who knows? Thanks again for your kind words, and may God continue to bless you richly. Mary Caldwell Benicia, CA ---------- > From: John M Thorp > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Re: Looking for California Bee Forage Plants > Date: Sunday, November 16, 1997 6:15 AM > > Greetings > Mary, Its > enjoyable knowing the excitement you're experiencing with the > anticipation of upcoming events concerning your new experience in one of > lifes many pleasures. Looking back over the years having just a handfull > of hives was clearly, at least for me, more enjoyable. This is one > business where increase is no problem. Clearly , Father gives the > increase in whatever we put our hand to. Bee blessed in your new > adventure. Being if like > mind concerning "flamings" ,I probably wouldn't even have a computer with > all its advantages if they were required reading and we didn't have a > delete key. I wonder, how brave most of these flamers would be face to > face? If you haven't already check with your local USDA > for forage sources. Theirs also got to bee a local beekeeping assn. for > you to plug into. But for Q. & A's round table discussions this is a good > place too. Nothing like eyeball to eyeball though. > Take Care and GBY,John in Homestead,also at ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 21:43:16 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Patrick & Mary Caldwell Subject: Re: Looking for California Bee Forage Plants MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi Andy... I didn't know they had a boarding school out here; it must have been that private Catholic school that isn't here anymore (it became a shopping center - like we need another shopping center?). I'm sure Benicia has changed a whole lot since you've been here; we have only lived here for 3 years, and although it still maintains a lot of small town charm, I understand it's grown quite a bit since even 10 - 15 years ago. Anyway, I really appreciate your message; in fact, as I said in my first post, I have enjoyed reading all of your messages on the Bee-L and have found them both informative and entertaining! I live near the hills in Benicia, and I have seen a lot of star thistle, so I imagine my bees will find it! I also have a small stand of eucalyptus near my house, so they may get into that as well. I just wasn't sure how far my bees would fly to forage, so I was concerned about that. Do hives send scout bees to find nectar and pollen sources? I am new to this sort of thing, so I wanted to make sure my bees would find good stuff to eat and make honey with. Thanks again for your help, and I'll be keeping you posted on my progress as a beekeeper! Mary ---------- > From: Andy Nachbar > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Re: Looking for California Bee Forage Plants > Date: Sunday, November 16, 1997 2:50 AM > > Hello Mary, > > I have fawn memories of Benicia and the time I spent there behind bars and > locked up during WW II at boarding school planning the "great escape" and > catching my first honeybees off the wildflowers that come each spring. Did > not make good my escape so well planned by my 2nd and 3rd grade classmates, > we were going to run off and dig gold out of the hills, but I did get a few > bee stings and my knuckles rapped more then once by the black cape'd guards > who were nuns for picking the bees off the flowers and a few other's pockets. > > Your area should have adequate spring wildflowers to build up your hive and > any flowering plants you have in your garden will be enjoyed by your bees > and give yourself great pleasure watching them work. One beehive will work > the flowers of your and your neighbors yards for several miles and may > produce in the summer a crop of very nice Yellow Star Thistle honey which > is mild flavored and light in color and is considered by many the best. > > You may also have Blue Gum and other eucalyptus trees in your area that > also can produce some surplus honey during the late winter and early > spring. It also is light in color and has the distinct flavor of all > eucalyptus honey produced in California and kind of grows on you. One of my > favorite honey's is Sage-Blue Gum mixed by the bees which my bees produced > when I was a teen ager and should have been chasing girls and not swarms. > > Vitex grows good here in Central California and grows into a very large > almost small tree sized bush. I would not plant it unless I had room for a > large hedge, ours is almost as big as the Russian olive trees planted at > the same time. The bees do work it but I have never seen any honey from it. > It also can be the subject of attack by strangers because it's leaves can > easily be mistaken for Mary Jane or Wacky Tobacco. I have myself dried the > leaves and tried to smoke them but ended up using it in my smoker for > fuel. > > ttul, the OLd Drone > > -- > (c) Permission is granted to freely copy this document > in any form, or to print for any use. > > (w) Opinions are not necessarily facts. Use at own risk. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 08:07:56 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Felix Shuey Subject: Re: Allergy Alternatives Brett D. I have observed honeybees working ragweed many times here in Pa. The pollen is a light yellow. Felix Shuey President- Centre County Beekeepers Asso. FCSHUFARM @aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 09:45:49 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: SEARCHing the Archives, it's earier than you know!!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Nick Wallingford's postings on searching BEE-L Logs are correct, but it's FAR, FAR easier than Nick posted. All the double slashes, and the less than obvious commands can be replaced with a single line of mail that reads: SEARCH BEE-L topic where topic is that which you seek. The only 'hard' part is that the command must be mailed to the server (LISTSERV@cnsibm.albany.edu) rather than mailing it to the list. The distinction between server and list is one that MANY listserv users on MANY lists fail to grasp. The server is the work horse behind the lists. Requests for service, such as SUBSCRIBE, SIGNOFF, SEARCH ... are sent to the server (LISTSERV@cnsibm.albany.edu). This is not the same as sending posts to the list (BEE-L@cnsibm.albany.edu), although in actuality posts sent to the list are "intercepted" by the server, which then reads the subscription list and fans the post out to the individual subscribers. Requests for service (such as SUBSCRIBE, SIGNOFF, SEARCH ...) that get mailed to the list rather than the server, are treated as postings to the list and get fanned out to all subscribers without providing the poster with the requested service and showing the rest of the subscribers that the requestor just doesn't get the distinction between listserv server and listserv list. Remember, service requests go to the server (LISTSERV@cnsibm.albany.edu) and posts go to the list (BEE-L@cnsibm.albany.edu). Again, service requests to the server, posts to the list. Service to Server, Posts to List. Getting back to the original point (How EASY, REALLY EASY!) it is to search the archives, pick a topic, any topic (say, queen rearing): one simply mails a service request to: LISTSERV@cnsibm.albany.edu that reads: SEARCH BEE-L "queen rearing" The quotes are recommended to limit the scope of the search to "queen rearing". Without the quotes, LISTSERV will flag the post about queens in the rear of the truck as well as posts about queen rearing and the queen mum who got hit in the rear. Sending the command: SEARCH BEE-L "queen rearing" to: LISTSERV@cnsibm.albany.edu returns to the requestor: 1) a list of 100 posts that may be of interest (different topics will return different numbers, it's coincidence that "queen rearing" has 100 hits, there's nothing magical about the number 100) 2) Excerpts from the 100 individual posts identifying how "queen rearing" was used in that post 3) Instructions on how to retrieve any or all of the "queen rearing" posts of interest to you. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE folks, SAVE THIS POST. You will (could) find these instructions invaluable to search the archives successfully and avoid repeat questions and flame wars about asking the same ol' questions. Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 19:47:39 +0100 Reply-To: drs@kulmbach.baynet.de Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dr. Reimund Schuberth" Subject: Re: Heating 5 gallon pails Comments: To: Midnite Bee MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Midnite Bee wrote: > > Greetings! > Where or who manufactures this "Melitherm" unit. > Your help in this matter is greatly appreciated. > Herb(Midnitebee) > www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee manufacturer of Melitherm is CARL FRITZ GmbH Immenweg 1 Postfach 28 D-97634 Mellrichstadt phone ++97 76 / 81 15 telefax ++97 76/ 7126 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 13:02:39 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Apiservices Subject: Address NICOT MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >Jorge Euclides Tello Duran wrote : > >Anybody know the NICOT address (fax or e-mail too), in France? All plastic equipments for queen rearing : Nicot Christian NICOTPLAST Maisod 39260 Moirans en Montagne FRANCE Tel : +33 (0)3.84.42.02.49 Fax: +33 (0)3.84.42.34.43 __________________________________________________________________ (\ {((O8< (/ Gilles RATIA International Beekeeping Consultant Webmaster of the "First Virtual Beekeeping Gallery in the World" APISERVICES Beekeeping Development "Le Terrier" F-24420 Coulaures - FRANCE Phone : (+33) 5 53 05 91 13 Mobile : (+33) 6 07 68 49 39 Fax : (+33) 5 53 04 44 57 Email : apiservices@compuserve.com http://perso.wanadoo.fr/apiservices http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/apiservices __________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 21:41:30 -0600 Reply-To: cspacekAflash.net@flash.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: curtis spacek Subject: Re: Temp at which bees fly. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit my italians seem to quit flying at around 45 deg.F.I tried to get bees out from under a house last saturday (38-42F)and no matter how much smoke I pumped under the floor no bees would come out.I first beat and banged on the floor and walls trying to locate the hive and stir the bees up.the hive was reported to be in the walls which were about to be redone so the hive had to go.Upon further inspection I realized te bees were under the floor.i'm going to try routing the bees through a hive box fullof comb and wait for the queen to move in. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 23:27:44 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Alden P. Marshall" Subject: Re: Temp at which bees fly. On Mon, 17 Nov 1997 06:29:00 -0600 "Excerpts from BEE-L" writes: >Reply-to: Discussion of Bee Biology >From: "MR WILLIAM L HUGHES JR." Interesting about bee flight and temp. Most temperatures referred to in texts I believe refer to foraging temperatures. I have found that putting extracted supers out for a period of time beginning at foraging temps and continuing through the colder weather bees will fly in high 30 and low 40 deg F. temps. I have seen the lighter colored as well as the darker races do this. I believe it is a combination of establishing a known source of high energy food which is energy cost effective. The old adage, is it worth the effort to undertake the task. Of course another aspect is also likely, bees probably learn well before it is to cold to fly that there is no sources available in the area and what is the sense of looking especially if is cold? Of course it is unlikely anyone knows what if any thought processes occur in the bee, probably all instinct. Alden Marshall B-Line Apiaries Hudson, NH 03051 Busybee9@Juno.com tel. 603-883-6764 > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 07:00:21 +0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Carlos Aparicio Subject: Re: Looking for California Bee Forage Plants Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear Mary: Your new bees can have different ideas from yours, on their own food. In facts they will seek their feed in a radio of some two miles as of your backyard and if the things do not go very well, the radio can very well to arrive to the four or five miles. One of the most rewarding and usefully task in the beekeeping is doing an inventory of trees, plants and flowers in that radio. The eucaliptus is a tree specially good for bees, and different varieties (there are about 500) will flower at different months of the year.- In my area, eucaliptus is by far the most important source of floral feed for bees.- by the way, I would like hear something about the buckfast bee. We work here with apis mellifera mellifera.- Good luck and enjoy your new activity. Carlos Aparicio At 11:17 PM 15/11/1997 -0800, Patrick & Mary Caldwell wrote: >Hello all... > >I am a "newbee" who will be starting my first hives (Buckfast) in the >Spring here in Northern California (northeast San Franciso Bay area). I >will be putting the hives in my backyard, which isn't very large. Even so, >I have a pretty nice garden, and have taken a great deal of care in >selecting plants that will attract bees, butterflies, hummingbirds, etc. > >There are a lot of interesting plants in our area (we have star thistle not >too far away on the local hills, ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 22:01:39 +1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: j h & e mcadam Subject: Re: Queen breeding Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" John Lewis asked: >Did you get any direct replies on the jenter system quarry you posted? > >I am interested in trying to breed my own queens and was wondering about >this system too. > I did see a very detailed reponse to Tom's query which covered the Jenter kit design and use. My comments are added in case they are useful to new beekeepers planning to expand into breeding queens for their own use or sale. We have been using a Jenter kit for 3 years, breeding about 200 queens a year mainly for our own use while we work out the best procedures and develop markets. The Jenter kit appealed to us because we appreciate the control over the critical timing of grafting freshly hatched larvae. Because the queen will have laid up to 99 eggs there is some wastage if you are only doing limited numbers of cell grafts but you must have a strong cell starter hive for each bar of cells. Our most common causes of failure are: 1. The queen is not laying when restricted to the laying cage. Answer: stimulate the hive with sugar syrup for 3 days beforehand. 2. The queen has been locked up too long and has laid double in the cells. The bees have cleaned out the cells and the queen relaid. Answer: shrug shoulders and start again. 3. Poor acceptance rate in cell starter hive. Answer: place cell bar in starter hive 24 hours before grafting for bees to warm: stimulate hive with sugar syrup for 3 days before grafting: remove all fresh brood to ensure ample supplies for grafted cells add sealed brood frames to ensure bees of right age 4. The bees have started queen cells elsewhere in the brood. Answer: Check all frames within week of placing grafted cells and destroy all alternative cells. 5. High loss rate from mating flights. Answer: place each mating nucleus at different angle and with landmark tree or shrub to enable queen to orient. Because of the cost of the Jenter kit I would not think it economic for small beekeepers unless commercial queen breeding is anticipated. In Snelgrove's book "Queen Breeding" he describes a method of using a frame with a strip of foundation at the top to produce small numbers of queen cells. The Demaree system (with its many variations) is also an economic way to produce your own queens without incurring initial expense. I am sure the Demaree system has been well covered in previous Bee-L posts but if anybody would like details of these two suggestions, please email me direct. P.S. Apologies to anybody failing to connect with me over the last few weeks. During the course of upgrading the computer the Service Provider managed to lose e-mail access for two weeks. I referred to Joe Hemmens' excellent post to find out how to search archives for the down-time. Thank you Joe, it worked fine. Betty McAdam HOG BAY APIARY Penneshaw, Kangaroo Island j.h. & e. mcadam Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: j h & e mcadam Subject: Re: Allergy Alternatives Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Brett D. Bannon wrote: > Reading an alternative medicine book, I discovered that they >recommended chewing fresh beeswax to help with allergies related to >pollen. > I have observed bees collecting pollen from Koshia and Pigweed. Has >anyone observed bees collecting from Ragweed. > Has anyone had experience with this remedy and any results. Honeycomb is recommended in the health food trade for either asthma or hay-fever victims. I have a customer for raw honey (straight from the settling tank after extraction with lots of pollen still floating in it) who claims she does not suffer the allergies she previously did. One customer buys honey in defiance of her naturopath's advice that honey depresses the immune system. For my own part I note that since I started getting stung on a regular basis by bees I do not have hay-fever. However I leave medical diagnosis and treatment to a person's own medical adviser, be it conventional or alternative medicine. Betty McAdam HOG BAY APIARY Penneshaw, Kangaroo Island j.h. & e. mcadam Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: j h & e mcadam Subject: Re: Looking for California Bee Forage Plants Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Mary Caldwell wrote >I have spoken with my local beekeeping association, and that's how I know >about star thistle and eucalyptus, but I was wondering what I could put in >my yard for my bees, since I wasn't sure how far the bees would go for >nectar and pollen. Mary, I count everything within a mile in any direction of my hives as foraging territory. Bees will fly further but it's a bit harder to build up a honey surplus. As a rule of thumb I believe an acre of blossom per hive will yield a honey flow. The bees will hunt down and select their favourites. If there is an area with a concentration of one nectar source the bees will concentrate on that. Remember the bees know best - and they may well surprise you as they are constantly surprising me. Betty McAdam HOG BAY APIARY Penneshaw, Kangaroo Island j.h. & e. mcadam Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Karen & Ralph Johnston Subject: Shelf life of Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What is the "shelf life" of honey ? This was our first harvest and do not know this. Thanks. Ralph & Karen Johnston Maiden, NC ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 06:07:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: AHB & Bee Breeding MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=unknown-8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ___ ____ ___ _ _ ___ ___ _ _ / _ \| _ \_ _| \ | |_ _/ _ \| \ | | | | | | |_) | || \| || | | | | \| | | |_| | __/| || |\ || | |_| | |\ | \___/|_| |___|_| \_|___\___/|_| \_| Breeding the AHB in the US. Since no beekeeper in the US can be sure or even tell he has the dreaded Afrikaner bee genes in his bees and the costs and more important the reliability of such tests precludes even the biggest commercial operation from having them done more then once you have a situation that does not lend itself to change by man other then by the good old standard bee breeding/beekeeping practice of T&E, (or Trial and tError). Lucky for us most bee breeders do select breeders for temperament, slow movement of bees on the comb, and its very important to a bee breeder not to have runny queens or bees, all of these are said to be much glorified in the AHB. The Good News is that none have stopped working because of the much heralded arrival of the AHB. As for what commercial beekeepers are doing that have AHB, first they are not advertising the fact the may have them but are quietly doing what we all do and that is replacing poor queens with new ones, and any hive that fly's up into your face is considered by most to be a poor one. Today they may be using stock other then that what is considered contaminated with AHB, but in time this will change if it has not done so already. In the areas of the desert SW, Texas to the Imperial Valley of California, 25 or 50 years ago before any so called AHB were reported in the US if you were to replace all the so called aggressive hives it would have been 100% of all the hives as they by any standards are and were more aggressive then what most would tolerate in the rest of the US. This is a fact and the first question is how do they now decide if they have AHB? Most can not tell the difference, but for sure those who can describe a beehive that fly's faster in and out of the hive then its neighbor, one that builds up faster, and swarms earlier. Some use these hives to make increase and keep the queen busy laying eggs, some do report that if managed the suspected AHB hives are besides being prolific are very productive and produce bigger surplus's of honey. I don't pretend to be a student of genetics, and for sure do not believe in the NAZI method of sizing bees to determine their background and disposition, or the final solution of the dead bee quarantiner. But I can assure all who read this AHB in the US is not the end of the world or even the beginning of the end and every years tens of thousands hives of bees that do not measure up to European standards are part of very productive beekeeping business that not only produce millions of pounds of honey but also help produce billions of dollars worth of agricultural wealth. The question about "breeding work being done" the answer is yes and has been on going for years even before the first AHB swarm was detected making it's illegal migration into the US in violation of federal and many state laws. Sperm was used from AHB shipped direct for the source in Brazil and shared with several bee breeders and no problems were reported but then we did not have the super DNA tests in use today, that failed in the OJ trial to convince the 12 people that counted. But bee breeding work is and has been done and will continue as long as there are beekeepers who are all pro temp bee breeders since today any queen has a short life matter not who produces them or what flavor they are. ttul, the OLd Drone (c) Permission is granted to freely copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)Opinions are not necessarily facts. Use at own risk. 111797 --- =FE QMPro 1.53 =FE Santa on the Web ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 14:02:22 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Richard Drutchas Organization: Bee Haven Honey Subject: More money for the honey board MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I bring up this subject of more money for the board stricty to encourage some discussion and not to try to derail anything. As far as I know this could be the best thing for the industry, but on the other hand this extra penny for a small producer-packer like myself means about as much as 5% of my net, which to me is worth some discussion. From what I understand and please someone correct me If I'm wrong the industry groups want to double the amount of money going to the board of which one quarter of the total will go for research and the other three quarters will go for promotion. I'm all for promotion I personally don't need it, for me honey is the easiest thing in the world to sell but maybe there is some trickel down effect that I'm not seeing so I give my penny. But now it's going up one more penny a pound that's off the top not off the profit like it should be. This extra penny was to go for research which sounded good but now I hear that only one half of the new money goes to reseach making three quarters for promotion, one quarter for research. I have to admit I'm having some trouble with all this, the big packers want more control of the board they want to get out of paying up to a half if they are already spending on promotion and they want money to check for adulturation. Most of the adulteration is coming from imported honey let the importer at least pay for ruining my business by bringing in cheap adulterated honey. From what I gather, most of the promotion is going to General Mills ect. that are using imported honey, let the importers pay for what they get. As far as giving the importers more power on the board I don't know, what do you think? Again I hope somebody out there can call me a fool and explain why I should gladly vote this extra penny in. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 13:16:29 CST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Phil Wood Subject: Earth & Sky - FYI Just thought I'd pass along that the Radio program Earth & Sky did a little number on the bee dance. http://www.earthsky.com/1997/es971117.html and had some pointers to fun stuff: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Beekeeping/beedance.htm My only question on reading it, though, was: the article claims that bees can't see inside the hive. I thought the biologists here said at one time or anohter that they could by being able to see farther into the infrared spectrum than we. Someone else here also mentioned that bees would prefer to build on some colors of combs and not others- Do I remember correctly? for what it's worth- Phil Wood wood@psysparc.psyc.missouri.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 14:59:00 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Edward Beary Subject: Re: Earth & Sky - FYI MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:16 PM 11/18/97 -0600, you wrote: >My only question on reading it, though, was: >the article claims that bees can't see inside the hive. >I thought the biologists here said at one time or anohter that >they could by being able to see farther into the >infrared spectrum than we. >Someone else here also mentioned that bees would prefer to >build on some colors of combs and not others- >Do I remember correctly? >for what it's worth- >Phil Wood >wood@psysparc.psyc.missouri.edu > In the hive, the dance is performed on comb near the entrance but instead of seeing the dance, the potential recruits feel the vibrations of th dance and follow the dancing bee. They will touch her with their antenna and sometimes receive nectar from her. The combination of these three factors tell the recruits where to look for the nectar. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 15:18:07 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: More money for the honey board MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Richard Drutchas queried about proposed changes to the National Honey Board in: "More money for the honey board". I agree with his goal, "to encourage some discussion..." because frankly, I don't know where I stand on the issues. However, I can offer a bit more of the background. There are conflicting opinions from the American Beekeepers Federation and the American Honey Producers Association regarding appropriate action from and to the National Honey Board. Excerpts from the Southern Adirondack Beekeepers Association newsletter reporting on the fall meeting of the Empire State Honey Producers Association follow. I hope everyone can follow this alphabet soup of associations, federations and boards. " ... Differing views for needed changes to the National Honey Board were presented by Dave Hackenberg, V.P. of American Beekeeping Federation and Jerry Stroope, President of the American Honey Producers Association. The following back- ground information regarding the NHB was taken from the NHB Home Page on the World Wide Web: "In 1986 the Honey Re- search, Promotion and Consumer Information Order was ap- proved by a referendum of honey producers and importers, leading to the establishment of a program for generic honey research, advertising and promotion. The NHB was subse- quently created by the U.S. Secretary of Agriculture to ad- minister the Order." Currently the NHB consists of 13 elected members including packers, importers/exporters and representatives of the general public. A penny per pound assessment is paid by packers and producers for both domes- tic and imported honey to help fund NHB's budget. Resolutions were presented to ESHPA for consideration re- garding proposed changes to the NHB make up and assessments. Dave Hackenberg's proposal was to increase the per pound as- sessment by a penny to increase the pool of money available to award "universities and federal researchers who show the greatest promise of solving the highest priority problems (confronting apiculture)" as determined by "a beekeeper com- mittee" and to implement a quality assurance program to en- sure that no adulterated honey (either imported or domestic) enter the US market. There are estimates that as much as 10% of all honey sold in the US contains some added cheaper sweetener. Removing adulterated honey from the market will lower the supply of pure honey and help keep prices up. In- cluded in this proposal was a suggestion to change the NHB to include two additional packers and remove the public rep- resentative. This would increase the NHB by one member. Jerry Stroope's proposal would have removed assessments for imported honey and would have removed all non-producers from the NHB. Included in Jerry's proposal was a redirection of the impetus of promoting honey by the NHB to the promotion of domestically produced honey. Due to the broad changes proposed to the NHB in either resolution, a consensus was not achieved and neither was adopted by ESHPA. Bill Gamber from Dutch Gold offered a packer's perspective to the proposed resolutions as well as some insight to the world honey market. More and more these days one hears ref- erences to the global economy and Bill echoed the global ef- fect of Argentine honey on domestic prices. Going for the higher prices offered in the states, producers/exporters in Argentina have shifted exports from Germany and Europe to the US at a time when domestic producers were holding out for even higher prices. This led to lower prices for domes- tic honey and full warehouses of Argentine honey. In a com- modities market it is never clear where prices will go, but it was interesting to see the effects of unsure or unknown harvests on market prices. I was left wondering if perhaps beekeepers might be their own worst enemies when it comes to marketing their wares. Unfortunately, no consensus of opinion was reached. Con- cerns that the NHB is being (or has already been) taken over by packers leaving producers poorly represented conflicted with concerns that foreign honey and producers would reap the benefits of the NHB while paying nothing for the ser- vice. It seemed that both resolutions had some good ideas regarding removal of adulterated honey and promoting domes- tic honey, but the associated changes tacked onto either re- solution regarding proposed changes to the NHB make up was the stumbling block that prevented a consensus and unfortu- nately, neither resolution was adopted. I was thankful to leave politics and world markets behind to enjoy the re- searchers that followed...." I cannot offer more insight to the politics and disagreement between ABF and AHPA, it eludes me. I don't believe at this time that any action has been taken although changes are in the wind. If readers have an opinion or care to formulate one, time is short and steps should be taken to come up to speed on the issues and contact representation in Washington, DC. Richard stated, "call me a fool and explain why I should gladly vote this extra penny in." I would hardly call anyone trying to understand the issues a fool. And I will be thankful to anyone who can explain to me why goals such as increasing funds for research, promoting domestic honey and removing adulterated honey from the marketplace have to be prerequisite to changes to a board created "for generic honey research, advertising and promotion." Aaron Morris - thinking this one's gonna heat up quick! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 12:44:58 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Andy L. Kettlewell" Subject: Beekeeping Organizations Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Which organizations are you involved with and which one do ou suggest? What does the ABF have that is good? What does the AHP have that is good? I am just wondering what you all think about this. -- Andy L. Kettlewell Rungun305@Earthlink.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 12:59:47 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Peter Amschel Subject: Re: Temp at which bees fly. In-Reply-To: <14300150107646@systronix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT bees probably learn well before it > is to cold to fly that there is no sources available in the area and what is > the sense of looking especially if is cold? Of course it is unlikely anyone > knows what if any thought processes occur in the bee, probably all instinct. > > Alden Marshall > B-Line Apiaries > Hudson, NH 03051 > > There is no doubt a large part instinct but I would say there is also at least one part fun! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 19:35:38 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Bob St. John" Subject: Re: Shelf life of Honey I read somewhere that some honey was found in an egytian tomb and it was still edible but not very tastey. Honey gets darker with age but if it is dry enough and kept out of sunlight it will last a lifetime. I remember tasting a sam[ple of waterwhite sage that was 10 years old and it was light amber and a little strong tasting. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 20:45:30 -0600 Reply-To: cspacekAflash.net@flash.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: curtis spacek Subject: Re: More money for the honey board MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit OH GOD NOT MORE TAXES!!!!!look out if you don't give willingly next year it will be taken from you. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 21:52:47 -0800 Reply-To: vcoppola@epix.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Re: More money for the honey board MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Richard Drutchas wrote: > > I bring up this subject of more money for the board stricty to encourage > some discussion and not to try to derail anything...... From what I gather, > most of the promotion is going to General Mills ect. that are using > imported honey, let the importers pay for what they get. As far as > giving the importers more power on the board I don't know, what do you > think? Again I hope somebody out there can call me a fool and explain > why I should gladly vote this extra penny in. Some thoughts on all this- 1. As near as I can tell neither proposition is favored by the present board. 2. Neither proposition has to be implemented. The board can continue as is. 3. The workings of the board is far from a democratic process. More on this after I digest more of the law. 4. In my opinion, as one who earns his entire income producing, that's producing, honey, the only important honey market stat. that matters is the price of honey in the barrel. Remember folks, packing your honey or even selling it direct does not increase the value of your crop. The extra income is due to the increased value your additional labor has added. The value of the crop itself is determined by the market. You could add the same value to any barrel of honey and in fact many ex beekeepers have found it more profitable to do so. 5. It seems to me that there should somewhere exist, a group dedicated to the interests of producers. Not packers, not producer/packers, not producer/pollinators, and not producer/syrup feeders disguised as honey producers- actual producers of real honey who are only concerned with a fair price for honey in the barrel. Neither NHB or ABF do so. 6. Some of the NHB members designated "producers" are producer/packers, pollinators, or, even worse, are agents of packers. Beekeeper does not = honey producer. 7. The producers, not the packers should oversee quality assurance. Blending other sweeteners with honey results in a cheaper and lighter (color) product. The practice also increases supply and depresses price. Sounds like a benefit to packers to me. 8. Honey is a commodity. Commodity producers are price takers, not price setters. We have no opportunity to pass on expenses to our customers. Honey packers can. And since the packers benefit directly to increases in consumption, they should pay the assesment rather than us. At least with the present NHB setup. The price of all honey would increase the same amount. That increase would be uniformly passed on. I think the present situation is absurd. The producer, who cannot pass on expenses, pays an assessment designed to increase consumption. His customer, the packer, who could pass on expenses, then enjoys the higher price realized by incresed consumption. And he does'nt even have to patronize his benefectors, he is free to make even more profit by buying from their competitors- imports! Beekeepers wake up! 9. The only thing I can say about the commodity that I produce, and distinguish it from the millions of pounds of the same commodity produced elswhere, is that its made in the USA. I would support a plan to promote honey produced in the USA - with or without the packers. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 19:20:51 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Breeding bees resistant to organophosphate poisons Hi all I live near a railway line and have always marvelled at how the herbicides sprayed to kill grass and stuff on the sidelines never kills the lucerne(alfalfa) that has grown there as a result of seeds spilling of fodder being railed around. It turns out the the genes for resistance to herbicides have been cloned into many plants (i don't know if this alfalfa is of such a variety but it certainly is tough). As a result framers can spray herbicides on their crops to kill weeds. Now my question is, has this cloning been done on bees? It seems it would be quite easy say to breed drosophila (fruit flies) in the presence of various common pesticides, and seeing as the drosophila genome is as far as I know sequenced, to find out which genes have mutated to give the resistance and cut them out and put them into one of the sections of the A.m genome that have been sequenced. (so that it is put somewhere that will not break one of the important genes in the host). Then theoretically if everything goes right one would be able to produce huge numbers of cloned bees with pesticide resistance with no real danger of it ever being a bad move as bees live in single colonies and the normal methods for exterminating them do not of neccesity need conventional pesticides - ie can gas them. (It would be bad to put the same genes into say a flie as pesticides are useful in killing flies which lay eggs all over the place and don't make hives - wow imagine that - funnycomb) If one put in such genes for resistance it would mean that of neccesity they would have to be able to metabolise the poisons as well, as that genes would code for the enzymes to do that - in other words it would increase the safety of the honey being sold as well. If it did not, at least it would be useful for pollination. Is such research being done?? Just a thought. Keep well Garth --- Garth Cambray Kamdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Apis melifera capensis Grahamstown 800mm annual precipitation 6139 Eastern Cape South Africa Phone 27-0461-311663 3rd year Biochemistry/Microbiology Rhodes University In general, generalisations are bad. Interests: Flii's and Bees. Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this post in no way reflect those of Rhodes University. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 22:31:24 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: jim jensen Subject: Re: Temp at which bees fly. In-Reply-To: <199711182059.MAA20097@smtp.pe.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:59 PM 11/18/97 +0000, you wrote: > bees probably learn well before it >> is to cold to fly that there is no sources available in the area and what is >> the sense of looking especially if is cold? Of course it is unlikely anyone >> knows what if any thought processes occur in the bee, probably all instinct. >> >> Alden Marshall >> B-Line Apiaries >> Hudson, NH 03051 >> >> > >There is no doubt a large part instinct but I would say there is also >at least one part fun! Hello! >I couldn't help but remark with Rudolf Steiner's view on this. I hope you enjoy it. =) "That the life of the hive is extraordinarily wisely organized no one who has ever observed it can deny. Naturally, no one can say that the bees have the same kind of intelligence that men have, for we certainly have the instrument of the brain, whereas the bees have nothing of the kind; thus the universal world wisdom cannot be drawn into their bodies in the same way. But influences coming from the whole surrounding universe do, none the less, work with immense power in the bee-hive. Indeed, one can only arrive at a right understanding of what the life of the bees truly is, when one takes into account that the whole environment of the earth has a very great influence upon the life of the colony." Rudolf Steiner 1923 "9 Lectures on Bees" Jim Jensen Atlanta, GA bdnut@mindspring.com The BioDynamic Honeybee Symposium A Quarterly forum for discussion of important topics. From beekeepers to beekeepers. Contact me for copies. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 01:07:45 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Diego Dias Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SEARCH BEE-L YOU KNOW YOUR A BEEKEEPER WHEN.... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 01:08:08 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Diego Dias Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SEARCH BEE-L ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 01:09:12 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Diego Dias Subject: Brother Adam? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Excuse me but several times i have read of Brother Adam, who was he? Thanks Diego Diego Dias Tacuari 737 (5547) Mendoza - Argentina Fifth year Industrial Engineering Interests: mountain bike, traveling, bees PS: as I am not an english speaker i would be very thankful for any comment of my english ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 22:56:59 -0600 Reply-To: barry@birkey.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Organization: BIRKEY.COM Subject: Re: Brother Adam? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Diego Dias wrote: > > Excuse me but several times i have read of Brother Adam, who was he? > > Thanks > > Diego Here's a bio on Mr. Adam. http://www.fundp.ac.be/medecine/homage/biogre.html -- Barry Birkey West Chicago, Illinois USA barry@birkey.com http://www.birkey.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 20:37:33 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Patrick & Mary Caldwell Subject: Re: Looking for California Bee Forage Plants MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi Carlos, I have, in fact, started to take notice of what's blooming in about a 2 mile radius from my home. I just noticed today that there are a ton of eucalyptus trees, and I'm sure my bees are going to find them! You also make a good point that my bees may very well decide to go outside my garden to eat, but I am now beginning to realize that I think there's a lot more forage out there for them than I originally thought. The Buckfast bee is a bee that was bred by Brother Adam in Buckfast Abbey, in England. Apparently, the Buckfast is one of the most gentle bees around, as well as being a good honey producer. I thought it would be a good place to start for me. I ordered my packages through B. Weaver in Texas, and I am eagerly awaiting getting started. Thanks for your advice! ---------- > From: Carlos Aparicio > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Re: Looking for California Bee Forage Plants > Date: Monday, November 17, 1997 8:00 PM > > Dear Mary: > Your new bees can have different ideas from yours, on their own food. In > facts they will seek their feed in a radio of some two miles as of your > backyard and if the things do not go very well, the radio can very well to > arrive to the four or five miles. > One of the most rewarding and usefully task in the beekeeping is doing an > inventory of trees, plants and flowers in that radio. > The eucaliptus is a tree specially good for bees, and different varieties > (there are about 500) will flower at different months of the year.- In my > area, eucaliptus is by far the most important source of floral feed for bees.- > by the way, I would like hear something about the buckfast bee. We work > here with apis mellifera mellifera.- > > Good luck and enjoy your new activity. > > > > Carlos Aparicio > > > > At 11:17 PM 15/11/1997 -0800, Patrick & Mary Caldwell wrote: > >Hello all... > > > >I am a "newbee" who will be starting my first hives (Buckfast) in the > >Spring here in Northern California (northeast San Franciso Bay area). I > >will be putting the hives in my backyard, which isn't very large. Even so, > >I have a pretty nice garden, and have taken a great deal of care in > >selecting plants that will attract bees, butterflies, hummingbirds, etc. > > > >There are a lot of interesting plants in our area (we have star thistle not > >too far away on the local hills, ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 20:40:21 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Patrick & Mary Caldwell Subject: Re: Looking for California Bee Forage Plants MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi Betty... Thanks for you message! I have just begun to take notice of what's blooming around a mile radius from my home. There are a lot of eucalyptus trees; many more than I had realized, as well as star thistle. I guess I really can't control what the bees will go for, so it will be interesting to see what the bees come up with! Thanks again, Mary ---------- > From: j h & e mcadam > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Re: Looking for California Bee Forage Plants > Date: Tuesday, November 18, 1997 4:01 AM > > Mary Caldwell wrote > > > >I have spoken with my local beekeeping association, and that's how I know > >about star thistle and eucalyptus, but I was wondering what I could put in > >my yard for my bees, since I wasn't sure how far the bees would go for > >nectar and pollen. > > Mary, I count everything within a mile in any direction of my hives as > foraging territory. Bees will fly further but it's a bit harder to build up > a honey surplus. As a rule of thumb I believe an acre of blossom per hive > will yield a honey flow. The bees will hunt down and select their > favourites. If there is an area with a concentration of one nectar source > the bees will concentrate on that. > > Remember the bees know best - and they may well surprise you as they are > constantly surprising me. > > Betty McAdam > HOG BAY APIARY > Penneshaw, Kangaroo Island > j.h. & e. mcadam http://kigateway.eastend.com.au/hogbay/hogbay1.htm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 23:11:32 -0600 Reply-To: BEE-L@cnsibm.albany.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Excerpts from BEE-L Organization: BestOfBee@systronix.net Comments: To: Diego Dias In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19971117152812.007a2320@raiz.uncu.edu.ar> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > SEARCH BEE-L YOU KNOW YOUR A BEEKEEPER WHEN.... In order to get a response you need to send your search message to LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Allen ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 01:31:44 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: wd6esz Subject: Re: Shelf life of Honey In-Reply-To: <199711180115.UAA28249@elvis.vnet.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Ralph, Honey has been found in the tombs of pharoahs in good condition. Rich On Mon, 17 Nov 1997, Karen & Ralph Johnston wrote: > What is the "shelf life" of honey ? This was our first harvest and do not > know this. > > Thanks. > Ralph & Karen Johnston > Maiden, NC > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 07:27:10 -0800 Reply-To: jones@hey.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Steve Jones Subject: (no subject) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SEARCH BEE-L INSULATION ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 08:28:07 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Norman A Brekke Subject: Interesting Reading There is an interesting article in the current (November 1997) issue of Popular Science called "The Plight of the Honeybee." It addresses in layman's terms the impact of honeybees on pollination in the United States . . . also lists a variety of plants for which pollination by bees is essential. They include a quote from Dr. James Tew (which shows a much higher regard for objectivity than those that consulted the "bee experts" on the recent sensationalism of "the worlds deadliest swarms"). The article highlights the need for honeybees and may make the general public more receptive to those of us who plan to keep, or are currently caretakers of bees. Norm Brekke Interests: Bees, Bikes, and "The [good] Book" Colonies: Zero . . . but gearing up for the Spring \\\\//// ( @ @ ) -----------oOOo-(_)-oOOo------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 13:24:06 +0000 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Organization: U. Michigan Dept. of Anatomy & Cell Biology Subject: Re: Allergy Alternatives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Felix Shuey wrote: > I have observed honeybees working ragweed many times here in Pa. The pollen is a light yellow. Likewise here in Michigan. It's fun to watch them get this pollen, for they run as rapidly as they can up and down the pollen spike of the ragweed plant. When they fall off, as often happens, one can watch them hovering in front of the spike, combing themselves and packing their pollen baskets. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 13:49:46 +0000 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Organization: U. Michigan Dept. of Anatomy & Cell Biology Subject: Re: Earth & Sky - FYI MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Related to the question of whether or not bees have vision inside the hive: I have always thought it quite remarkable that exposure to the light itself does not seem to have any disturbing effect upon bees. It's only when this is accompanied by rapid motions or vibrations of the hive parts that bees show alarm reactions. Bees continue to do their dances, feed larvae, etc, and even the queen moves about normally, searching for cells and depositing eggs on open comb! I think this is amazing, given how we humans make such a big deal about whether we can see clearly in the light or stumble about in pitch darkness. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 10:03:29 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ron Taylor Subject: Re: solar wax melter On Sun, 18 May 1997 10:02:28 -0400 PondSite writes: >I have some questions on using a solar wax melter, and could use some >HELP! >please > > >what size screen do put in the bottom of the melter? > >When the wax melts, what do I do with the empty comb shafts that still >are >in the wax, do I just >strain them out. > >Any help that I can get concerning the operation of this melter will >be >appreciated. > >WALT >pondsite@barnwellsc.com > Walt; You can get a copy of a solar wax melter form Steve Forest at Brushy Mountain 1-800-beeswax Thanks Ron Taylor President SC Beekeeprs ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 08:59:21 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Moriarty Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 17 Nov 1997 to 18 Nov 1997 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" On pesticide resistant bees- While the thought of not being economically affected by pesticide spraying may be attractive, it might be wise to consider the implications of sprayed bees coming back to and entering your hives without your knowing it. Do consumers really want the pesticides in the hives that produce their food? Perhaps if we look again at pesticide injury to bees we might see it also as a feedback mechanism which allows us to be aware of poisons... and prevents us from passing them on to consumers. There is already enough rubbish in American Honey without increasing bee tolerance to poisons. aloha, Mike Moriarty \\\|/// \\~~ ~~// (/ @ @ /) +--oOOO----------(_)--------------+ | Michael Moriarty | | P.O. Box 1102 | | Kapaau HI 96755 | | 808-889-5809 | +--------------------------oOOO---+ |___|___| | | | | oooO Oooo ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 09:32:40 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ron Taylor Subject: Re: filtering honey Comments: To: smharris@ed.co.sanmateo.ca.us On Mon, 27 Aug 1956 20:44:30 +0000 Mason Harris writes: >Hello Bee folks! > >I am entering 4 different types of honey in the county fair next >week. My lightest honey has very fine, suspended particles in it >which I can't seem to get out. I have filtered it through gross and >fine filters, the last one being a women's stocking. I think these >suspended particles are fine pollen specks. It is most visible in >the lightest honey. Does anyone have a method for clearing up this >honey? I have let it sit in the sun for a few days and seemed to >help with the air bubbles but not the specks of pollen. >If anyone has an idea on how to clear this up, please e-mail me >directly. I am doing me best to beat the person who has won most >all of the honey and beeswax catagories for the last 300 years. > >Thanks! > >Mason Harris >Burlingame, California > Mason I was goin through my e-mail and clearing some messages. I have learned that if you take a black plastic garbage bag and cut a circle equal to the diameter of the bucket you have your honey in. Take the piece of plastic and press it down down on the honey to get the air out. Leave it on for two days and then pull the plastic off any debree will stick to the plastic and the honey will be clear. thanks ron taylor, President of South Carolina Beekeepers ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 20:29:43 +0000 Reply-To: luichart.woollens@virgin.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Harry Goudie Organization: Luichart Woollens Subject: Temp at which bees fly MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, I was interested in the letters form Alden Marshall and William Hughes about the temperature at which bees will fly. I am afraid that I am only receiving "Best of Bee" at the moment and apologize if my comments have been repeated. It seems to me that the intensity of light has more to do with when bees fly than the temperature. I have never seen bees flying at night (perhaps this is only because I have not looked!!) but I have seen them flying often in sub zero temperatures. Why should they fly in such cold conditions when there are no natural food for them? Can I suggest that they may be looking for carrion! I have occasionlly had to cut up a freshly killed deer during freezing weather and, if it is sunny, then there is usually a number of bees attracted to the carcass. Food for thought!! Sorry. -- Harry Scotland Knitwear Web pages: http://freespace.virgin.net/luichart.woollens/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 16:27:27 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Walt Barricklow Subject: Re: solar wax melter MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit wow, it sure has been a long time since youve answered your mail, and we just saw each other at the state fair last month. I got the plans from the university of Pennsylvania, for the solar wax melter and used an old deep super and painted it black. Works just fine. See you at the spring meeting.walt ---------- > From: Ron Taylor > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Re: solar wax melter > Date: Wednesday, November 19, 1997 10:03 AM > > On Sun, 18 May 1997 10:02:28 -0400 PondSite > writes: > >I have some questions on using a solar wax melter, and could use some > >HELP! > >please > > > > > >what size screen do put in the bottom of the melter? > > > >When the wax melts, what do I do with the empty comb shafts that still > >are > >in the wax, do I just > >strain them out. > > > >Any help that I can get concerning the operation of this melter will > >be > >appreciated. > > > >WALT > >pondsite@barnwellsc.com > > > Walt; > > You can get a copy of a solar wax melter form Steve Forest at Brushy > Mountain 1-800-beeswax > > Thanks Ron Taylor President SC Beekeeprs ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 23:44:21 +1300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Organization: Bay of Plenty Polytechnic Subject: Re: solar wax melter MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT You can get an annotated bibliography of solar wax melters by sending a message to: admin@beekeeping.co.nz and putting the words SEND SOLAR in the *body* (message area) of the email. There is an automated method of doing this at: http://www.beekeeping.co.nz/autor.htm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 21:42:33 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ron Taylor Subject: Re: Wax Moth Traps On Thu, 11 Sep 1997 17:40:28 -0500 Richard E Leber writes: >Hi ya'll; > >Following a discussion on preventing Wax Moth damage at our local >association meeting I found this tip from Ron Taylor, President of >South Carolina and Colleton County Beekeepers: > >Treatment for Active Hives: > >(1) Use a 2 liter plastic drink bottle with a one inch diameter hole >cut on the curve toward the top of the bottle. >(2) Mix one cup granulated sugar, one cup vinegar, one whole banana >peeling and eight cups of water. >(3) Hang this bottle in the bee yard year round. Replace as needed. >Use one bottle for every four hives. > > >Does anyone have another idea for wax moth "traps" that may be >affective? > >Rick Leber, Beekeeping Since 1987 >Mobile, Alabama >ricks.toy@juno.com What luck have you all had with the wax moth traps ron taylor ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 04:36:27 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Apiservices Subject: Complete study on beekeeping in Vietnam Comments: To: Apinet-L_Diffusion , BeeBreed_Diffusion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 We would like to draw your attention to a complete study on beekeeping in= Vietnam (35 pages, 17 photos, 10 tables, 17 graphics) which is now available on the Web : http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/apiservices/a_04_97_us.h= tm or http://perso.wanadoo.fr/apiservices/a_04_97_us.htm We would appreciate your comments. __________________________________________________________________ (\ {((O8< (/ Gilles RATIA International Beekeeping Consultant Webmaster of the "First Virtual Beekeeping Gallery in the World" APISERVICES Beekeeping Development "Le Terrier" F-24420 Coulaures - FRANCE Phone : (+33) 5 53 05 91 13 Mobile : (+33) 6 07 68 49 39 Fax : (+33) 5 53 04 44 57 Email : apiservices@compuserve.com http://perso.wanadoo.fr/apiservices http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/apiservices __________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 11:44:27 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: bees resistant to pesticides Michael Moriarty mentioned that breeding bees resistant to pesticides may be a problem as it wold result in ore pesticides in the honey. This may be true but it may also be wrong. For an organism to be resistant to most pesticides it actually would have to metabolise the things into safer compounds (eg CO2, NaCl and Phosphates or whatever). Then one would actually have a cleaner honey, as just as the bees now add enzymes which get rid of certain contaminants in honey, they would also be doing a bit of bioremediation on the honey. So it may in the long term with a bit of research give us a better honey product - in the longg term it may even be possible to get bees to distribuute viruses to the nectaries of plants infecting the fruit with viruses that will kill the bugs that get the fruit. In this way one could eliminate the pesticide use, but at present with bugs getting more resistant and bees getting scarcer there needs to be something done. Just a though Garth --- Garth Cambray Kamdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Apis melifera capensis Grahamstown 800mm annual precipitation 6139 Eastern Cape South Africa Phone 27-0461-311663 3rd year Biochemistry/Microbiology Rhodes University Interests: Flii's and Bees. Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this post in no way reflect those of Rhodes University. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 11:56:30 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Report back on blowtorch uncapping Hi All I remember a while back there was some talk about using a gas blowtorch/hot air stripper to decap. Well I have finally managed to have a blowtorch and a full gggas canister handy at the same time when uncapping was needed and can report the following: I find it takes two passes with the torch to decap each side of a flame. (this is a 1/4 pressure Low Pressure Gas flame - IE the hole in the reguulator is quite big. I set it so that the flame was about 5cm long) Hence if wearing welding gloves it means one can decap a frame in about 20 seconds, which for me is faster than a knife. Extracting - I got plenty of capping wax. A lot of the stuff flings of and collects in the extractor, which is quite a pain. Damage to combs - There is far less damage to the combs and I think that the warming effect of the torch actually helps with getting the extracting going as the first mm or so of honey is warm in the cells and flings out, and then because of it flinging out it speads up the rate at which an air bubble is drawn below the ramaining honey - I think this is important as the bubble can stretch more than honey thus speading up the movement of the remainder of the honey. Expense - for me gas is cheaper than electricity. Probably depends on the country. Anyhow, those are my observations. Keep well Garth --- Garth Cambray Kamdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Apis melifera capensis Grahamstown 800mm annual precipitation 6139 Eastern Cape South Africa Phone 27-0461-311663 3rd year Biochemistry/Microbiology Rhodes University Interests: Flii's and Bees. Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this post in no way reflect those of Rhodes University. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 20:40:47 +1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: j h & e mcadam Subject: Re: Shelf life of Honey Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Ralph and Karen Johnston asked: >What is the "shelf life" of honey ? This was our first harvest and do not >know this. There are two factors here. One is the edibility of honey and the other is consumer resistance to buying semi-candied honey off the shelf. As far as edibility is concerned, there is no "use by" date. Honey which has been correctly stored at room temperature, out of direct sunlight or exposure to heat, will remain edible indefinitely. There will be loss of aroma. If the customers for your honey have not been educated that candying is a natural process, easily reversed by standing the container in hot water without damage to the honey, then should your honey begin candying on the shelf of the store you will have problems. Many Europeans appear to believe that candying indicates purity but Australians have been known to throw out candied honey in the belief it was "off". Honey packers who cater for long supply lines and supermarket style outlets heat treat their honey for a considerable period to avoid this problem. Inevitably there is some loss of food value and flavour which the small scale beekeeper retains. Offering to take back any honey which candies within, say, 6 months, may encourage stores to stock your product. The honey can easily be reliquefied by standing in a dead refrigerator fitted with a light globe, as described in recent posts. Recycle stock so you do not have to heat the same jars more than once. Different honeys candy at different rates. There is an article in the ABC and XYZ stating that candying rates depend on the proportions of the different sugars. It is also accelerated by not being allowed to settle, incorrect filtering, storing in refrigerator or fluctuating storage temperatures from cool to warm. Blue gum and Pink Gum are noted for non-candying properties and the honey from Black Locust (Robinia pseudoaccacia) sold in Hungary as Acacia honey is remarkable for remaining liquid. If you are packing your own honey in jars, it is important to: Ensure honey has been fully settled with dust and other particles skimmed from the top Raise temperature in controlled environment prior to final filtering Ensure correct storage The temperature you heat your honey to will depend on which market you are aiming for. Betty McAdam HOG BAY APIARY Penneshaw, Kangaroo Island j.h. & e. mcadam Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: filtering honey In-Reply-To: <19971119.112012.11886.0.lcblocklowcountry@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT >... I have learned that if you take a black plastic garbage bag and cut a circle equal to the diameter of the bucket you have your honey in... Although otherwise this seems like a workable idea, my understanding is that black plastic -- especially the types used for garbage handling -- may be unsafe for food use. At very best they are not food approved and may be from (unknown) recycled sources. There have been extensive discussions some time back on BEE-L about safety of materials used in honey handling. Allen --- Newsflash! Visit http://www.beekeeping.co.nz/beel.htm to search BEE-L archives the easy, easy way or to update or change your subscription options. --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 03:52:15 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Shelf life of Honey In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19971120104047.00692328@kigateway.kin.on.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > There are two factors here. One is the edibility of honey and the other > is consumer resistance to buying semi-candied honey off the shelf. And there is at least one more factor -- the integrity of the honey. Honey that has been heated may not (IMO) still be honey in all senses of the word although, for the masses in this day and age, this may be the only 'honey' thry experience. Since the commercial packers who damage and degrade a great deal of honey in the process of distributing it are our major customers, I guess we should be careful how much we speak up on this :( Since darkening is an inavoidable effect of time and temperature, and can be very different between floral sources, there are definite limits to how long a particular liquid honey sample may be kept presentable. > ...If the customers for your honey have not been educated that candying > is a natural process... Many Europeans appear to believe that candying > indicates purity but Australians have been known to throw out candied > honey in the belief it was "off" In Canada, most honey naturally granulates (candies) within days (or weeks at most) of extracting unless it is heat treated. Therefore most Canadian natural honey is solid -- either hard, or soft and spreadable -- by the time it is consumed. Many, if not all honey lovers here understand this. Much discussion has taken place on BEE-L concerning these matters and I'll try to avoid repeating what has already been covered. It is huge topic that is not well covered in many books, however a fairly extensive coverage of this topic can be found here using 'raw honey' as a search key in the logs. Also try 'melting', 'heating honey', 'creamed' or 'granulate' as keys. Allen --- Newsflash! Visit http://www.beekeeping.co.nz/beel.htm to search BEE-L archives the easy, easy way or to update or change your subscription options. --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 05:56:51 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: James D Satterfield Subject: Re: bees resistant to pesticides In-Reply-To: <16E6F93FC4@warthog.ru.ac.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 20 Nov 1997, Garth wrote: > So it may in the long term with a bit of research give us a better > honey product - in the longg term it may even be possible to get bees > to distribuute viruses to the nectaries of plants infecting the > fruit with viruses that will kill the bugs that get the fruit. In > this way one could eliminate the pesticide use, but at present with > bugs getting more resistant and bees getting scarcer there needs to > be something done. Garth always seems to come up with some thought-provoking ideas. I enjoy reading his posts. I'm reminded that here in the southern USA a disease of pears (fire blight) is caused by a bacterium that is spread by honeybees and other insects which visit the flowers. It's my understanding that fire blight can be controlled with Streptomycin, the same antibiotic that is used by some beekeepers for AFB prevention. If you've never seen fire blight, it's interesting. The disease starts at the flowers and spreads down the branches. Leaves and branches turn black as if they were charred by flame. My asian pear tree had several branches affected this last year. I hope your year has gone well. Cordially yours, Jim James D. Satterfield Canton is about 40 mi/64 km 258 Ridge Pine Drive north of Atlanta, Georgia USA Canton GA 30114 USA 34.24N, 084.47W (770) 479-4784 TBH Beekeeping: http://www.gsu.edu/~biojdsx/main.htm Mother Crochets: http://www.gsu.edu/~biojdsx/mom/crochet.htm Old Jim's Fowl Page: http://www.gsu.edu/~biojdsx/fowl/fowl.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 06:13:12 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: James D Satterfield Subject: TBH Website self-extracting zip file MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I have made an updated self-extracting zip file of the tbh website. This new file includes the page recently added, the page dealing with making top bar observation hives. If you'd like me to send you the file as an attachment, drop me an email note and I'll try to get it to you if your server and mail reader permits it. If not let me know and we'll discuss other options. If the file is placed in a directory on your hard drive, you can run all of the FAQ's, and pages with photos and drawings by using your browser to run the files locally. Pages load rapidly, of course. You would not be able to use the links to other websites nor could you use the mailto links since you wouldn't be online. The file is a .exe file, and it will leave here free of viruses as far as my checking programs (Viruscan and F-prot) can detect. You may still wish to check it...I routinely check *any* executable file I download. Cordially yours, Jim James D. Satterfield Canton is about 40 mi/64 km 258 Ridge Pine Drive north of Atlanta, Georgia USA Canton GA 30114 USA 34.24N, 084.47W (770) 479-4784 TBH Beekeeping: http://www.gsu.edu/~biojdsx/main.htm Mother Crochets: http://www.gsu.edu/~biojdsx/mom/crochet.htm Old Jim's Fowl Page: http://www.gsu.edu/~biojdsx/fowl/fowl.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 15:35:10 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Pamela Munn Subject: IBRA's News List - #1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT ####### IBRA -- the International Bee Research Association ###### ***** Welcome to IBRA's new distribution list ****** You may ask - how did I get on this list? Well, you were on our list of recipients for *B.mail*, which is no longer available. If you don't want to remain on this list, just let us know and we will take you off. I've circulated this to the Bee-L list, and you may be reading that rather than a personal copy. If you want your e.mail address added to the IBRA list, just let us know at: ibra@cardiff.ac.uk In future mailings we will be keeping you up to date with the latest news about IBRA, its services and publications. **** News in this mailing **** IBRA's World Wide Web pages have been given an update, with new information about us and our latest books and conferences. You can now 'Meet the staff at IBRA' and find out what we look like! Our next conference, the First European Workshop on Habitat Management of Wild Bees and Wasps, will be held on 7 April 1998 at University of Wales, Cardiff. An international line-up of speakers is planed for this important meeting. The aim is to bring together all those who are concerned with landscape ecology as conservationists, planners, administrators, land owners as well as those with scientific interests and those that see wild bees and wasps as bio-indicators of the environment. Planning for the 7th IBRA Conference on Tropical Bees is well underway. It will be held at Chulalongkorn University, Chiang Mai, Thailand, form 19-25 March 2000. More details of these meetings, and registration forms, are available at our web site or from IBRA, 18 North Road, Cardiff CF1 3DY, UK Fax: +44 1222 665522 E.mail: ibra@cardiff.ac.uk WWW: http://www.cardiff.ac.uk/ibra/ **** We want your feedback **** We are always interested to know what you think of IBRA - what we are doing right, what we are doing wrong, could we do it differently or better! Let us have your ideas. **** Spread the word **** If you know someone who you think would like to know more about IBRA or would like to be added to this list, please copy this mailing to them or send us their e.mail address. Tell them about our web site where they can find out more. http://www.cardiff.ac.uk/ibra/ ***** I hope you enjoyed this first mailing - we plan to send them out when ever we have new information of interest to IBRA members and of general interest to the bee community. Pamela Munn Deputy Director, IBRA ================================================================= ***Important: please state for whom your message is intended***** International Bee Research Association 18 North Road, Cardiff CF1 3DY, UK Tel: (+44) 1222 372409 Fax: (+44) 1222 665522 E.mail: ibra@cardiff.ac.uk =================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 13:15:03 -0800 Reply-To: mister-t@clinic.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re Filtering Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alan, I have used saran wrap. It was more an accident than any great planning. I did not have a cover for a bucket so put saran wrap right on the surface of the honey. I could not get to filtering it right away, so after a day or so, when I lifted the plastic wrap off the honey, all the wax, and other bits and pieces came out with the wrap. I was able to bottle right from the bucket. Now I do it as a matter of course. Since saran wrap and other plastic wraps are food grade, there is no honey contamination. I wouldn't bother with black plastic. Agree with what you said, plus it has to be cut, where you just tear off whatever you need of the plastic wrap, and it is cheap, easy (you can easily make it contact the entire surface of the honey), you lose little honey, and get a good product. However, I think the origional post was on how to get rid of suspended particles, not the stuff that floats to the top of the honey. The plastic wrap solution does not answer that question. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME Allen Dick wrote: > >... I have learned that if you take a black plastic garbage bag and cut > a circle equal to the diameter of the bucket you have your honey in... > > Although otherwise this seems like a workable idea, my understanding is > that black plastic -- especially the types used for garbage handling -- > may be unsafe for food use. At very best they are not food approved and > may be from (unknown) recycled sources. > > There have been extensive discussions some time back on BEE-L about safety > of materials used in honey handling. > > Allen > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 19:35:29 +0200 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jan Tempelman Organization: Home Subject: snelgrove MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8c)" To: Jan Tempelman > search bee-l "snelgrove" -> No match. how is it possible????? -- trun "BRIGHTNESS" on my TV set, nothing happend -- Jan Tempelman / Ineke Drabbe | EMAIL:jtemp@xs4all.nl Sterremos 16 3069 AS Rotterdam, The Netherlands Tel/Fax (SOMETIMES) XX 31 (0)10-4569412 http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/index3.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 14:52:38 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Richard Drutchas Organization: Bee Haven Honey Subject: In regards to the NHB discussion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In regards to the two recent posts on the honey board,Aaron mentioned that Bill Gamber explained how Argentina shifted its honey exports from Germany and Europe to the US for the higher prices. Can somebody from Europe clear this up, I heard antibiotics where found in Argentina honey and was refused from Europe, probably a bogus rumor or maybe an isolated case. It was also mentioned that there are estimates of 10% of the honey sold in the US is adulterated. I thought the big packers already check the honey they buy. Forgive me for jumping around here but this all relates to the NHB. I have to ask what happens to these national promotion boards, what happened to the dancing raisins, do most of these boards usually go belly up, are there any dairy farmers out there that can tell us how they feel about thier promotion board, and are there other boards run by producers and packers. Lastly, Vince wrote,"packing your honey or even selling it direct does not increase the value of your crop. The extra income is due to the increased value your additional labor has added". Vince, if this is true how come the retail price in my area anyway hasn't dropped along with the barrel prices? The big packers obviously are taking care of themselves. The big question now is how can the producers get the price up to where it should be and can a promotion board run by both packers and producers have the best interest of both in mind. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 12:21:04 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Snelgrove MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT 'Snelgrove' is capitalized, and I guess the computer in Albany cares about such things. Literal minded, huh? I wonder if it rejects plurals of words? Aaron? Allen ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 14:10:20 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8c)" Subject: Output of your job "allend" To: Allen Dick > search BEE-L Snelgrove -> 8 matches. Item # Date Time Recs Subject ------ ---- ---- ---- ------- 014462 97/03/19 21:42 17 Re: Eggs appearing in queenless hives. 017194 97/07/28 20:58 44 Re: Taranov Board 017711 97/08/22 22:37 29 Snelgrove Swarm Control System 017746 97/08/25 12:26 30 Snelgrove 017750 97/08/25 13:57 92 Snelgrove swarm control 017770 97/08/26 22:54 43 Re: Snelgrove Swarm Control System 019379 97/11/18 22:01 72 Re: Queen breeding 019424 97/11/20 19:35 25 snelgrove To order a copy of these postings, send the following command: GETPOST BEE-L 14462 17194 17711 17746 17750 17770 19379 19424 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 14:27:31 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Search BEE-L "snelgrove" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Well actually, the search isn't case sensitive. When I submitted search bee-l "snelgrove" I got the same 8 hits. I got an additional hit by spelling snelgrove with 2 'l's. No idea why Jan is having problems. /Aa ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 15:04:09 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Regarding the NHB discussion... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT > ... Can somebody from Europe clear this up, I heard antibiotics were > found in Argentina honey and was refused from Europe, probably a bogus > rumor or maybe an isolated case. Can't comment one way or another on this rumor other than to observe that with the concerns about TM resistance in Argentina, honey contamination with antibiotics is plausible. > It was also mentioned that there are estimates of 10% of the honey > sold in the US is adulterated. I thought the big packers already > check the honey they buy. Part of the recommendations being proposed by ABF is to "render adulterated honey useless." It was not defined what this means. Return to sender? Burn it? Dye it green? This vagueness was identified as a shortfall in the ABF proposal, clarification was requested. > what happened to the dancing raisins?... I believe they were last seen socializing with the M&M guys. Rumors persist they begat illegitimate raisinettes that melt in your mouth but not in your hand. > how come the retail price in my area anyway hasn't dropped along with > the barrel prices? The big packers obviously are taking care of > themselves. Actually the packers aren't the culprits here, it's the retailers. Once the retailers have the product on their shelves at a higher price they are happy to leave the price high and pocket the difference if/when the wholesale drops. > The big question now is how can the producers get the price > up to where it should be and can a promotion board run by both packers > and producers have the best interest of both in mind. Indeed, that's the big question! Sure wish I knew! That's part of the problem between ABF and AHPA. I thought about the conflicts between the two organizations and concluded it's the lite beer commercial all over. The "TASTES GREAT" side says "More Packers!" and the "LESS FILLING" side says "More Producers!". And I'm left wondering if I want more research, less adulteration and more promotion because it tastes great or it's less filling. The industry just isn't big and powerful enough to tolerate the bickering between ABF and AHPA. Both organizations should be working towards addressing more research, less adulteration and more promotion rather than picking the bones of an organization the exists to foster research and promotion. And it's the National Honey Board that should become an active and aggressive foe to fight adulteration, wherever it occurs. Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 12:08:32 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbar Subject: Re: In regards to the NHB discussion In-Reply-To: <34744EB6.3546@together.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 02:52 PM 11/20/97 +0000, Richard Drutchas wrote: >In regards to the two recent posts on the honey board,Aaron mentioned >that Bill Gamber explained how Argentina shifted its honey exports from >Germany and Europe to the US for the higher prices. Can somebody from >Europe clear this up, >I heard antibiotics where found in Argentina honey >and was refused from Europe, probably a bogus rumor or maybe an isolated >case. I thought it was in honey from MEXICO? But will add that I did get some personal e-mail from Argentina that almost confirmed it was Argentina honey. >It was also mentioned that there are estimates of 10% of the honey sold >in the US is adulterated. I thought the big packers already check the >honey they buy. I really think that 10% is way over the line, I would believe less then 1/2 of 1%, but no way is it 10%. I don't know who the big packers are but SUE BEE does check honey for farm chemical and sugar adulteration. By law they must report some chemicals to the regulatory agency's involved, and in total their tolerances for chemicals are lower the what is allowed by law. They do return honey to producers that is found to be adulterated with anything. >Forgive me for jumping around here but this all relates to the NHB. I >have to ask what happens to these national promotion boards, what >happened to the dancing raisins, do most of these boards usually go >belly up, are there any dairy farmers out there that can tell us how >they feel about thier promotion board, and are there other boards run by >producers and packers. Yes, there are many promotion boards run by producers and packers. Mostly the packers can dominate these boards if the producers let them and much information about the different boards can be found on the web for those who are interested. At any time almost any board can be under attack by dissatisfied groups of producer who have not been very successful killing them on constitutional grounds. Occasionally a board does go out of business but it is a painful process at the least. >Lastly, Vince wrote,"packing your honey or even selling it direct does >not increase the value of your crop. The extra income is due to the >increased value your additional labor has added". Vince, if this is true >how come the retail price in my area anyway hasn't dropped along with >the barrel prices? >The big packers obviously are taking care of themselves. Co-Op's members like those in SUE BEE pay twice or three times. They pay for their own name brand advertising and honey promotion, they pay the producers share, and they pay the packers share of the government honey tax program. >The big question now is how can the producers get the price >up to where it should be and can a promotion board run by both packers >and producers have the best interest of both in mind. Actually these boards do not exist to effect prices one way or the other for the farm commodities they represent but are mostly consumer information agency's. They can increase demand and this could increase the price for a commodity. But on the down side packers do little else in the way of name brand advertising other then cutting prices and kick backs to buyer's and brokers. ttul, Andy- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 22:14:09 +1300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Organization: Bay of Plenty Polytechnic Subject: Re: Regarding the NHB discussion... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT New Zealand's packing of honey is done predominantly by producer/ packers. Though there are sometimes an 'us/them' attitude, the producer/packers are an integrated part of the industry for the most part. One hears the argument that since they are packers, they would be trying to talk the price of honey down so they could purchase from beekeepers cheaper. That argument doesn't stand up to the fact that it is really in their interests to be paying a *high* price for the honey they buy - because that means their *own* production has a greater value... (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- home nickw@beekeeping.co.nz (/ work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz NZ Beekeeping http://www.beekeeping.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 23:41:40 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Kuyckx Maurice Subject: Re: Interesting Reading MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ---------- > From: Norman A Brekke > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Interesting Reading > Date: 19-nov-97 14:28 > > There is an interesting article in the current (November 1997) issue of > Popular Science called "The Plight of the Honeybee." It addresses in > layman's terms the impact of honeybees on pollination in the United > States . . . also lists a variety of plants for which pollination by bees > is essential. They include a quote from Dr. James Tew (which shows a > much higher regard for objectivity than those that consulted the "bee > experts" on the recent sensationalism of "the worlds deadliest swarms"). > The article highlights the need for honeybees and may make the general > public more receptive to those of us who plan to keep, or are currently > caretakers of bees. > > Norm Brekke > Interests: Bees, Bikes, and "The [good] Book" > Colonies: Zero . . . but gearing up for the Spring > > \\\\//// > ( @ @ ) > -----------oOOo-(_)-oOOo------------- Good evening, is this article on the NET, Thanks, Maurice from Belgium ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 21:37:04 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Joe Hemmens Subject: Re: Search BEE-L "snelgrove" In-Reply-To: <971120.142804.EST.SYSAM@cnsibm.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi, Aaron wrote: > Well actually, the search isn't case sensitive. When I submitted > > search bee-l "snelgrove" > > I got the same 8 hits. I got an additional hit by spelling > snelgrove with 2 'l's. > > No idea why Jan is having problems. From Listserv DB Memo- "Double-quoted strings .....They result in a case-sensitive search, which means that you should never double-quote a string unless you want case to be respected during the search." Best to use single-quotes for a non case sensitive search. Joe ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 00:11:33 +0100 Reply-To: drs@kulmbach.baynet.de Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dr. Reimund Schuberth" Subject: Re: Regarding the NHB discussion... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > ... Can somebody from Europe clear this up, I heard antibiotics were > > found in Argentina honey and was refused from Europe, probably a bogus > > rumor or maybe an isolated case. > > Can't comment one way or another on this rumor other than to observe > that with the concerns about TM resistance in Argentina, honey > contamination with antibiotics is plausible. You were discussing the question about antibiotics in honey from Argentina. I want to answer because someone asked for an opinion from old Europe. In deed there was an announcement of the press about antibiotics in honey from countries out of Europe. I read about that in my local newspaper in Germany. Let me translate this news from 13th Nov. 1997 without any comment and guarantee for exactness as good as I can: "ANTIBIOTIC RESIDUES IN Honey FROM ABROAD Zurich. According to a report of the Swiss TV foreign honey often contains residues of antibiotics. According to a report of the consumer magazine "Kassensturz" from late Tuesday evening mostly concerned is honey from Central America. Measurements on the honey importers' instructions produced a result of residues up to 0.8 mg per kg. Particular high values of the antibiotic Streptomycin are in the Mexican honey from Yucatan, the magazin was reporting. The residues in the honey belong to medical treatment, which beekeepers used to fight American Foulbrood." Greetings Reimund ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 18:52:33 -0500 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" Organization: Independent non-profit research Subject: Re: Brother Adam? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hola Sergio: Brother Adam?: One of the most revereed and best informed beekeeper in the whole world. Two books worth reading (written by him) are: In Search of the best Strains of Bees Breeding the Honeybee I am sure that you might be able to obtain any of his books if you contract IBRA on the net. Best regards. Dr. Rodriguez Virginia Beach, VA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 23:10:51 -0800 Reply-To: vcoppola@epix.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Re: In regards to the NHB discussion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Richard Drutchas wrote: > Lastly, Vince wrote,"packing your honey or even selling it direct does > not increase the value of your crop. The extra income is due to the > increased value your additional labor has added". Vince, if this is true > how come the retail price in my area anyway hasn't dropped along with > the barrel prices? The big packers obviously are taking care of > themselves. If the market price of honey in the barrel is, as an example, $0.75/lb and you pack that honey in jars and get, lets say $0.85/lb after material and labor expenses, you net $0.10/lb profit. But that profit is the result of you effort to bottle and market that honey, the honey is still worth only $0.75/lb. Right now I am not set up to pack, I wholesale it in barrels. I could invest in packing equipment and more floor space and spend time selling and delivering and I probably would make more money. But my point is that the honey I produced is still worth whatever he market says it is. The big question now is how can the producers get the price up to where it should be and can a promotion board run by both packers and producers have the best interest of both in mind. Again, we are price takers not setters. We've had the NHB for years now and they have succeeded to increase demand. They have helped create new markets and new products. But here we are still taking prices barely over 1980 prices. Honey was then supported at $0.67/lb. Some may argue that price was artificially high but pakers paid it and honey was only $1.09 on the shelf. Have we done anything to raise the price? I don't think so. Can we do anything? I think we should try. Will the packers help? The packers make there living on the difference of the price they pay for honey and the price they sell it for. They will help keep that difference as great as possible. Can you blame them? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 01:04:47 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: Re: Temp at which bees fly. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Alden and All: >Of course another aspect is also likely, bees probably learn well before it >is to cold to fly that there is no sources available in the area and what is >the sense of looking especially if is cold? You are quite right I believe, and about the economics of sugar concentration too. >Of course it is unlikely anyone knows what if any thought processes occur in >the bee, probably all instinct. Here I beg to differ. A great deal more is known about the thought processes in bees than in many other animals. Because they are so easy to keep and will fly to food sources and back home they have been the subject of many experiments involving learning and discrimination. For example how long does it take to train bees to certain colours, or what shapes can they discriminate most easily, and so on. Remarkably, bees can be taught to navigate a maze in only 6 times the length of time that it takes to teach a rat (on average). Among the multitude of things that constantly amaze me about our little friends, I think the MOST AMAZING is the fact that their tiny little brain can store all the instinctual information needed to perform ALL the different tasks that workers do as they age, all the information needed to process the input from their many sensory organs, and still has room for this fairly high level of learning. I would be interested in reading posts from people with more information about learning in bees. Have a nice day. Stan ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 22:26:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Calkins, Rob" Subject: Dead Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I just check my hives today, as we had a break in the weather. I found lots of dead bees around the hive and on the landing boards. There were also some dead bees inside the hive behind the entrance reducer. While a few of the dead bees were drones, the majority of them were workers. Is this normal? This cold spell was the first one of the season. I know that the cluster will reduce in size and maybe the workers were carrying the dead bees away from the hive and that is why I found them up to five feet away? Or maybe the turnover rate is that high and in the summer they are not as noticeable as when they are on the snow? Any suggestions or comments would be appreciated. I live in Boulder, Colorado and have treated with terramyacin (sp) and mineral oil in the fall. Thanks, Rob Calkins 4 hives 2nd year ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 15:01:01 -0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Albert Knight Subject: SEARCH THE BEE-L LOG FILES MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit GETPOST BEE-L 3116 3183 3672 3984 4277 6955 7391 7469 8679 9683 9693 11919 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 10:41:22 +0200 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jan Tempelman Organization: Home Subject: Re: snelgrove ---- I get mail MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 20 Nov 1997 Alexander Wienands a.wienands@public.ndh.com YOUR ENGLISH IS TERRIBLE - TERRIBLE - TERRIBLE...............PLEASE STOP YOUR PRIMITIVE ADD-INS TO THE GROUP!!! Alex ----------------------------------------------------------- Jan Tempelman wrote: > From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8c)" > > To: Jan Tempelman > > > search bee-l "snelgrove" > -> No match. > > how is it possible????? -- ---- Jan Tempelman / Ineke Drabbe | EMAIL:jtemp@xs4all.nl Sterremos 16 3069 AS Rotterdam, The Netherlands Tel/Fax (SOMETIMES) XX 31 (0)10-4569412 http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/index3.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 22:51:37 +1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: j h & e mcadam Subject: Re: AHB & Bee Breeding Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Garth queried whether any breeding had been done to make the AHB more manageable. Between 5 and 10 years ago Scientific American carried a report on AHB dealing with its initial accidental and then deliberate release by the Brazilian authorities. I am unable to find my copy of the magazine (obviously I stored it in a safe place) but the findings were that by continually selecting hives that were not so defensive the Brazilian beekeeping industry had evolved a strain that was manageable and thrived in the climatic conditions. At the stage the report was written feral AHB were advancing into Texas but the increased aggressive tendency was being managed by requeening annually with pure strain Italians in managed hives. The African gene was being gradually diluted with a combination of less suitable climatic conditions and mating with pure Italians. Anybody interested could do a search through Scientific American archives. Betty McAdam HOG BAY APIARY Penneshaw, Kangaroo Island j.h. & e. mcadam Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: j h & e mcadam Subject: Re: Allergy Alternatives Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Ted Fischer wrote: It's fun to watch them get this pollen, >for they run as rapidly as they can up and down the pollen spike of >the ragweed plant. When they fall off, as often happens, one can >watch them hovering in front of the spike, combing themselves and >packing their pollen baskets. The same thing happens with the male casuarina. The tree is wind pollinated but the bees collect the pollen, liberating substantial quantities in the process, some of which gathers in yellow pools on the ground. I do not know whether this action is a help or a hindrance to pollination of the female trees. Betty McAdam HOG BAY APIARY Penneshaw, Kangaroo Island j.h. & e. mcadam From: Marian Pintilie Organization: - Subject: Re: Shelf life of Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit HI everybody > Blue gum and Pink Gum are noted for > non-candying properties and the honey from Black Locust (Robinia > pseudoaccacia) sold in Hungary as Acacia honey is remarkable for > remaining liquid. I'd rather say Europe instead of Hungary. I am from Romania, and here is the same thing.Pure Acacia honey never cristalize. And for sure Black Locust tree grow in other european countries I'm curious, this tree did not grow on other continents? Other personal curiosity was wether in the world exist other types of honey which not cristalize. Now I know about blue and Pink Gum . Are any others? Thanks to everyone who will satisfy my little curiosity. Regards Costel P.s. A note for Allen Hi Allen , a long time you offered to the list an document about raw honey. I sent my request once on doc.raw later on text.raw, weeks later a personal message to you about this, but no result. Sorry to bother again . Have I done something Wrong ? The same Costel ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 09:55:57 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Sid Pullinger Subject: Shelf life of Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >>>>> What is the shelf life of honey?>>>>> Honey with a low water content (17% or less) properly sealed against the= ingress of moisture, will keep more or less for ever. For many years I have set aside samples with low water content just to see how they progressed. My oldest is 12 years. It is still in perfect condition, no= sign of fermentation. It is opened once or twice a year just to taste it= =2E = It still tastes like honey and has remained a soft buttery texture. The sugar content is unchanged but I expect all the enzymes and vitamins have= long since disappeared and the HMF increased. No doubt an expert honey taster would detect a loss of flavour but I think the average honey eater= would accept it as normal. = Mead also has a long shelf life, providing the alcohol level is high.- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 10:01:00 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Palm, Kevin R. (LLP)" Subject: Help with hive identification Hello all, I'm trying to locate some information for a friend about a decorative hive that he saw in an old issue of Bee Culture. I believe that the hive is called a "Samerston", or "Shalmerston," hive, or something like that. It's an 8-sided, decorative hive, and that's about all I know about it. If anyone can help me, it would be greatly appreciated!!! Thanks, Kevin Palm Grafton, Ohio ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 09:27:14 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Shelf life of Honey In-Reply-To: <199711210956_MC2-2907-CB4B@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > >>>>> What is the shelf life of honey?>>>>> > > Honey with a low water content (17% or less) properly sealed against the > ingress of moisture, will keep more or less for ever. While this is true, essential characteristics such as colour and taste may change drastically in some varieties. Some time back, we had some *water white* (~5 mm) comb honey packaged up and sealed and ready to sell. Somehow one case got set aside and lost form a few years at room temp. When we found it again the honey was about 100 mm in colour (black). Moreover some very nice honey gets a pretty nasty taste over time without fermenting. > Mead also has a long shelf life, providing the alcohol level is high. Usually this is the case; however if the mead is made without pasteurization and/or is not stabilized (stopped chemically), even 15% mead may go through some fairly unattractive stages as secondary fermentations take place. Ulimately it may be very nice, but one might be tempted to throw it out before it gets there. Mead recipes are in the logs for those interested. Search using 'mead'. Allen Allen --- Newsflash! Visit http://www.beekeeping.co.nz/beel.htm to search BEE-L archives the easy, easy way or to update or change your subscription options. --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 13:23:53 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "" Subject: Adam Books Comments: To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net FYI There are two Br. Adam books available from Wicwas Press: In Search of the Best Strains of Bees (just a few copies left) Beekeeping in Buckfast Abbey. The third Bro Adam book is out of print, but probably available in libraries of bee clubs, etc. There is also the BBC video program (sold via Bullfrog in the USA) on Bro. Adam's life and work. Wicwas Press has these in stock as well. Wicwas Press LLC P.O. Box 817, Cheshire CT 06410-0817 Phone and Fax 203 250 7575 ljconnor@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 19:52:13 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "K. Bokhorst" Subject: Re: Shelf life of Honey Comments: To: allend@internode.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ---------- > From: Allen Dick > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Re: Shelf life of Honey > Date: Thursday, November 20, 1997 10:52 AM > > > There are two factors here. One is the edibility of honey and the other > > is consumer resistance to buying semi-candied honey off the shelf. > > And there is at least one more factor -- the integrity of the honey. > > Honey that has been heated may not (IMO) still be honey in all senses of > the word > --- > Allen, I fully agree One of the healthy components of honey are the enzymes (ferments) At room temperature they are fairly stable. At 50-60 C they rapidly disappear. The quantity of enzymes is expressed as their "diastase number" Each kind of honey has its own diastase number Citrus e.g. is extremely low , only 8; heather exceptional high : 64 In Holland heating of honey is seen as a bad practice, although honey you buy in the shops (even in reformhouses) is heated. Hobby beekeepers sell there honey to there friends etc., so honey in the shops is always imported honey which comes in drums . To liquify cristalized honey at 40 C lasts too long for the importers. Long live the hobby beekeeper. Karel Bokhorst Dutch hobby beekeeper ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 14:44:00 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Palm, Kevin R. (LLP)" Subject: Help with hive identification - Correction Hello all, The hive has been identified for me as a Stewarton hive. I believe that it may have originated in Stewarton, Scotland, but I'm not sure... Any info such as construction, dimensions, etc. would be immensely appreciated!! Thanks again, Kevin Palm Grafton, Ohio ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 20:07:29 +0000 Reply-To: luichart.woollens@virgin.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Harry Goudie Organization: Luichart Woollens Subject: Re : temp at which bees will fly MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Stan said: Remarkably, bees can be taught to navigate a maze in only 6 times the length of time that it takes to teach a rat I think that this is being a bit unfair on the poor rat. Bees have a remarkable sense of direction and ability to navigate, far superior to humans or, I suppose, rats. Do you have to be able to "Think" to "Learn"? I'm not sure. I do not think that bees have that ability. I will agree that bees are remarkable creatures but I think that this is more to do with the long time they have had to evolve rather than any sort of intelligence. -- Harry Scotland Knitwear Web pages: http://freespace.virgin.net/luichart.woollens/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 23:22:03 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Antonio Ceruelo Subject: changing hives Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I=B4m planing to change the hives from Lamstroth models into Dadant, I would= =20 apreciate any advice about how should I do this job. Thanks in advance Antonio=20 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 23:08:54 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Joe Hemmens Subject: Re: Help with hive identification - Correction In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi, > The hive has been identified for me as a Stewarton hive. I believe that > it may have originated in Stewarton, Scotland, but I'm not sure... Any > info such as construction, dimensions, etc. would be immensely > appreciated!! > > Thanks again, > Kevin Palm > Grafton, Ohio I seem to remember that Steele & Brodie have the details of many old hive designs and may be able to help with details. The Stewarton is mentioned in Wedmore's 'A Manual of Beekeeping' as having 'slides between the bars' which I guess was a form of frame spacing. Manley also mentions having seen one - complete with bees - in 'Honey Farming'. He described having seen the hive in his childhood and therefore it would seem that the hive was available some time before 1905. Try Steele & Brodie. Joe