========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 16:03:04 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: The Bee Works Subject: Re: Acarine and Oil of Wintergreen In-Reply-To: <348E3B50.D1D5A5C3@epix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 9 Dec 97 at 22:48, Vince Coppola wrote: > I agree with David on this one. Andy's statement is poor advice for > anyone wintering bees in the north. There is plenty of data on the > affect of T-mite and not to treat is foolish. Before treating our > losses were as high as 55%, treating got us below 25% and breading > for resistance has almost eliminated losses to T-mites. It is very possible that Andy's advice forgets the necessary temperature controls of the winter cluster. Dr. Nasr has done a great deal of work on "Thermal Regulation"and this explains why Northern bees die with T-mite infestations, whereas Southern bees do not. It seems the cluster regulates the internal temp by increased oxygen uptake. Obviously if the bees trachae are blocked with mites they cannot absorb enough oxygen to keep the cluster warm under our low temp conditions. This accounts for excessive winter kill due to T-mites in the North. We have been in the Ontario Breeding for 4 years, and when we first started to test and select for T-mite resistance we were finding up to 250 mites per bee. Now by selection and breeding we have reduced that to no mites or figures like .25 mites in 50% of bees tested. Well below the economic threshhold. In other words, at these figures there is no need for treatment or loss to T-mites. Worthy of comment? ******************************************* The Bee Works, 9 Progress Dr, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1 Phone/fax 705-326-7171 David Eyre, Owner. http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks e-mail ******************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 16:03:05 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: The Bee Works Subject: Re: waxing snow sleds In-Reply-To: <19971209.113730.10710.0.bbannon@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 9 Dec 97 at 11:37, Brett D Bannon wrote: > bus can't get to our house unless the roads are frozen. Anyway > someone suggested waxing the sleds to help them slide better. > Thought I would ask the Bee-List if this works, how you do it, etc. > Is beeswax good. How about paraffin. Thanks in advance. I have a little experience waxing my cross country skis, using that as a guide line I would suggest bees wax. We use a harder wax as the temp drops and softer as the snow gets wetter. So as bees wax is harder, then that would be my choice. You could make it even harder by melting a little propolise with it. Rub the runners with bees wax, and then buff with a soft cloth before use. ******************************************* The Bee Works, 9 Progress Dr, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1 Phone/fax 705-326-7171 David Eyre, Owner. http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks e-mail ******************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 16:03:03 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: The Bee Works Subject: Re: Acarine and Oil of Wintergreen In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 7 Dec 97 at 0:17, Stewart Beattie wrote: > seems to be experiencing. Would question if it,s the bees that have > become resistant, could it be that the mite has developed into a > less damaging strain only showing symptoms when the bees are > suffering from other problems. It would be interesting to here from > hives, going down with varroa show acarine problems? From experience in our breeding, there are levels of resistance to T-mites. In a previous post I reported the sheer overwhelming numbers of mites, to bees that have no mites at all. Possibly, by natural selection, the bees have become resistant (tolerant) to T-mites. Provided they are below certain numbers, then there would be no economic disadvantage to finding mites. It's only when the bees become so infested as to not function efficiently that concerns arise. Then of course, financial returns, or lack of, warrant the use of medication. ******************************************* The Bee Works, 9 Progress Dr, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1 Phone/fax 705-326-7171 David Eyre, Owner. http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks e-mail ******************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 07:41:28 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Acarine and Oil of Wintergreen In-Reply-To: <19971211132040038.AAA425@lizard> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > It seems the cluster regulates the internal temp by increased oxygen > uptake. Obviously if the bees trachae are blocked with mites they cannot > absorb enough oxygen to keep the cluster warm under our low temp > conditions. This accounts for excessive winter kill due to T-mites in > the North. Not to discount Nasr's work which is pretty significant, there has to be more to this than meets the eye. We winter *outdoors* in an area where temperatures reach minus forty -- sometimes for weeks on end -- often with wind. We do not find that our (untreated) bees die then. The losses seem to come usually at the very *end* of a very long winter. In such cases, after 5 to 6 months of confinement, the bees simply age and die without replacing themselves adequately. I remember that beekeepers here (Alberta) were reasonably happy with their wintering results in late February 1996, but by the end of March the ABA was declaring a disaster. This was because of an earlier than usual fall, and a lack of good early spring flying weather. It affected both indoor and outdoor wintering and it did not seem to matter much what the mite load was, if any. Nonetheless, I doubt there is arguement that tracheal mites do shorten bees lives. And, FWIW, It occurs to me that tracheal mites also tend to add selection pressure that tends to favour breeding prolific bees that may have shorter individual lives. (That will affect wintering in severe years). > We have been in the Ontario Breeding for 4 years, and when we > first started to test and select for T-mite resistance we were finding up > to 250 mites per bee. Now by selection and breeding we have reduced that > to no mites or figures like .25 mites in 50% of bees tested. Well below > the economic threshhold. In other words, at these figures there is no > need for treatment or loss to T-mites. Does breeding for resistance work? Perhaps. It *seems* reasonable that it can, but effectiveness can only be *proven* if there are adequate controls to show that other effects are not responsible for the decline in infestations. I doubt in most cases if there are. Although we were breeding from our own stock a few years back, recently we have buying queens from everywhere and still do not see high counts. Maybe the mites have been selected, not the bees. Our results are very similar to what David reports above -- with very little breeing for mite resistance, I assume, in the Aus and NZ bees. I hear that the Hawaiian ones do get some injection of genes from mite selected bees. Maybe one of our Aus or NZ breeders can indicate whether they are injecting mite resistance into their stock in advance of mite appearance on their turf. After writing this, I have to state that there is now a *tiny* doubt in my mind, since two of our yards made from splits -- which have imported queens, I'm not sure from where -- have 10% infestations, the highest in our outfit. Nonetheless, these two same yards were the highest reading yards previously and I have thus far assumed that it is due to microclimactic factors. But I'm going to check on this. At any rate, I wonder, in the cases of both Vince and David, what controls have been used to verify that the reason for mite decline is actually related to the breeding? Mites seem to have their cycles and the levels David reports seems consistent with what we are obtaining buying queens from wherever they are available and cheap. Allen ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 04:20:00 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Organization: WILD BEE'S BBS (209) 826-8107 LOS BANOS, CA Subject: Nov. Bee Conditions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=unknown-8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable NATIONAL HONEY MARKET NEWS Page 3 December 9, 1997 COLONY, HONEY PLANT & MARKET CONDITIONS DURING NOVEMBER CALIFORNIA Unsettled weather was reported the first of November. Widespread precipitation was frequent and for the seven days ending November 16th, rainfall totaled 3.33 " in Santa Rosa, 1.71 " in Sacramento and nearly I" in Los Angeles. The rains turned to snow as the weather systems moved east dropping 6-8" near Mt. Shasta. Temperatures ranged from near to slightly below normal. On the 26th, a fierce Pacific storm hit the state again bringing precipitation and winds gusting to 50 mph near Santa Barbara. Weekly precipitation reached 4.93 " in the Sierra Nevada foothills and 4.73" in the Bay Area. Snow accumulated across higher elevations. At the end of October, California's 155 reservoir water supply system held about 7.1 trillion gallons (21.8 million acre feet) of water, 105% of the long-term average and 58% of capacity. November precipitation was above normal across most of the State. San Francisco - the monthly rainfall of 6.97" was 268% of normal, their IOth highest November total in the past 149 years. The bees are reported to be in good condition as the winter months approach. Most of the losses appear to occurring in colonies brought into the state by hobbyists that were not treating for mites on a regular basis. Commercial beekeepers expect to keep busy all winter, adding supplemental feed and checking for mites. Most colonies are setting near the foothills or on top of levees near farm land. California held their state convention during November and many producers were unhappy with the lower honey prices. Despite low prices, most packers reported they are receiving offers of more honey than they can use even with retai= l sales and orders for gift packs seasonally strong. Because high prices last year forced some commercial users, such as bakeries, to cut back or eliminate honey from their products, packers are finding they do not need nearly as much honey to cover their contracts. Other producers that had been holding their 1997 crop p are worried the price could drop even lower so they are anxious to sell now. COLORADO*** Beekeepers around the state have generally completed the fall treatment for the Varroa and Tracheal mite, and are currently feeding the bees that were kept in state. Most of the migratory beekeepers have completed moving the colonies out of state for the winter months. Colonies are reported to be only in fair condition at time. Weather during the month of November was seasonal with winter storms affecting mostly the northern mountains of the state. Temperatures ranged from 45-= 55 degrees for the daytime highs to the lower 20s during the nights for the Denver area. Parts of Southern Colorado received from 20 to 40 inches of snow during the Thanksgiving holiday weekend from a major snowstorm that hit the area. GEORGIA * * * Colonies around the state were generally in good condition. There was very little activity occurring in the state during November with the exception of supplemental feeding of colonies. Beekeepers were inspecting colonies for light stores and feeding where necessary. There was very little additional activity occ urring. Beekeepers were cleaning up bee yards and were involved in equipment maintenance. IDAHO & UTAH & NEVADA * * * November was mild and warmer than normal. Several storms in most areas have brought good moisture, especially to the higher mountain areas improving the early outlook for next growing season's ground moisture. Larger migratory beekeepers were busy during the month making preparations for moving hives to California. Others were preparing for winter and gathering their hives in yards. NATIONAL HONEY NARKET NEWS Page 4 December 9, 1997 ILLINOIS * * * Beekeepers had reported very little activity as wrapping was completed. Mite treatment strips were added, and migrant bees had been moved to southern states for overwintering. Honey bees were reported in good condition as the fall flow had been mainly late aster. Most of the month was cloudy in northern sections, while southern and central areas had rain and rain/snow mix for several days. Wholesale movement had been reported slow, while retail sales was rated fair to good. INDIANA * * * Wholesale and retail honey movement had been reported only fair. Beekeepe= rs had been attending information meetings throughout the State. New beekeeping interest had the most impact on meeting attendance. Temperatures were generally seasonal with highs in the 40's and low's in the 30's. Most of the state had reported the 17th the coldest overnight temperatures with reading ranging from 15 south and 17-19 degrees north. Most had received snowfall from I" to 4" generally scattered from area to area. Areas in Northern and Southern Indiana received spotty amounts with the northeast receiving the largest amount. Most beekeepers had reported a better than expected late fall flow. Hives had been expected to require supplemental feeding. However, aster flow had been extended due to late frosts. MISSISSIPPI * * * Colonies around the state were generally in good condition. There was ve= ry little activity occurring around the state in November. There were some reports of supplemental feeding in colonies with light stores. Beekeepers were also closely inspecting colonies for mite infestations, cleaning up bee yards and involved in equipment maintenance. MISSOURI & IOWA * * * Temperatures were slightly below average, but show wide swings from week = to week as fronts moved through the Midwest. Precipitation was near normal. Beekeepers finished honey extraction, feeding, and treating for mites. Most seasonal beekeepers that move South for the winter have moved. The other beekeepers will move hives in December or wait until early spring to move hives to East Texas for early pollen & nectar flows to build up bee populations. Bees are in generally good condition with good food reserves to start the winter. An informal survey of beekeepers at the Iowa annual meeting, Beekeepers reported yiel= ds per colony of about 60 lbs. in the east; 80 to 130 lbs. in West and 80 to 140 lbs. in the central part of the state. This is considered a good crop. Official yield estimate of average yields will be issued when the Agricultural Statistics Service completes the formal survey. Demand was good for bulk honey, but not as good as 1996. Prices for bulk honey are lower this season. Packers delivered Thanksgiving orders and have started packing early orders of gift pack honey for Christmas. MONTANA Temperatures were cool during November with some regions recording lows several degrees below normal. Only a little snow was received in the valleys which quickly melted. The most significant snow accumulated in the Rockies. Gusty winds were also reported towards the end of the month. Most of the Montana bees have either been sold to beekeepers in warmer areas of the U.S. or were taken to California holding yards. Some local beekeepers kept busy making and shipping holiday gift packs. Movement of this year's honey crop has been fairly good but some producers were having trouble finding a packer to buy their crop and they don't like prices being offered. NATIONAL HONEY MARKET NEWS Page 5 December 9, 1997 FLORIDA * * * Temperatures and moisture levels were about normal for the month. Bees were feeding on very light supplies of Spanish needle, pursley, goldenrod and loquat. Activity is very slow in Florida at this time of year. Beekeepers are still trying to find a treatment for Varroa Mite. Bees that are not affected by the mites are in good condition. Demand for Florida honey was moderate at steady prices. NEW YORK * * * Weather conditions across the state were cooler. Daytime temperatures we= re between the mid-thirties to the upper-40's. On the 14th, daily record snowfall totals were reported in Rochester which received 10.6", Syracuse reported 10.3" and Buffalo had 9,.5'. The only other time that Rochester had an 8" accumulation earlier in the season was in 1953. Storm-total snowfall reached 14" in central New York. Beekeepers reported that colonies are in good condition and the populations have leveled out. Demand for honey was moderate, prices remained steady. NORTH CAROLINA * * * Honey has been moving well at the retail level due to the Thanksgiving an= d upcoming Christmas holidays. This is especially true of the sourwood honey that is produced in the western part of the state. Colony conditions vary across the state, but are generally in pretty good shape. Moisture levels have also been variable, but overall are still adequate as we enter the winter months. OREGON * * * Several storms moved across the state during November bringing occasional heavy rains and snow to the Cascade Mountains. A particularly strong storm on the 23rd brought more than 2" of rain to the coast and 4-8" of snow to the mountains. Gusty winds accompanied the storm. Daytime highs have been normal to slightly above normal. The bees remained in winter holding yards and it is reported to be in good condition. Little feeding was necessary as enough supplemental feed or honey was left in the hives during extraction in the fall. Mite treatments were also done before winter. There were still problems in some areas with losses from yellow jackets. Beekeepers tried setting out traps but the yellow jackets always went to the honey first. They plan to try and control the problem earlier next year in the spring before the honey flow. WISCONSIN Winter like conditions returned to the state with some snowfall and ponds freezing over. Very little activity was reported by beekeepers and State officials. The 1997 State fall survey focused on Varroa Mite and American Foul Brood. One hundred seventy colonies from around the State had been checked. The inspection of brood comb and ether roll tests revealed brood had been killed by Varroa Jacobsoni, Chalkbrood and American Foul Brood. The Varroa mite population appears high this year with test samples of 250 mites on I00 bees. This compares to 1996 test samples of 6 mites on I00 bees. American Foul Brood had been found in 1% of test samples checked. Chalkbrood had been found in 12% of colonies checked. Honey sales have been good due to holiday baking. NATIONAL HONEY MARKET NEWS Page 6 December 9, 1997 WASHINGTON * * * Weather conditions during November were fairly mild and wet. Early in th= e month, daily-record warmth covered Western Washington. Seattle reached 64 degrees and Olympia hit 62 degrees, their first of three daily records. The warm conditions continued through the end of the month along with occasional heavy rains that caused localized flooding in several counties across the state. Enough snow fell in the Cascades to open ski areas Thanksgiving weekend but the only other area of the state to see any snow was along the Idaho border. The unseasonably warm weather in Western Washington kept some plants blooming throughout the month. When the rain subsided, the bees were able to taking cleansing flights and were seen still bringing in pollen. Most of the bees in Central and Eastern Washington were taken to California holding yards during November. Hauling was much easier than last year when huge amounts of snow already covered the region. Some beekeepers are reporting losses as high as 30% in colonies brought back from North and South Dakota. Tracheal mites are the most likely cause. The colonies couldn't be treated last spring as they usually are because beekeepers were too busy cleaning up the mess from the losses from California floods. Producers waited until the bees were in California to clean out the dead bees, combine smaller colonies and add treatments. Supplemental feed was also added when necessary. Some beekeepers that lost bees in the California floods last year have decided to keep their colonies in local holding yards until next year. The Washington State Beekeepers Assn. Held their annual convention in Yakima the beginning of November. The Association is still working with State officials on beekeeping legislation. They have proposed one vote per beekeeper rather than the number of votes based on how many colonies you register. The State has proposed provisions that would virtually eliminate hobbyist and the Assn. is not in favor of that. *Above compiled by and from the: NATIONAL HONEY MARKET NEWS United States Department of Agriculture Agricultural Marketing Service Fruit and Vegetable Division 2015 South 1st Street, Room 4 Yakima, WA 98903 --- =FE QMPro 1.53 =FE Santa on the Web ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 16:26:53 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "A.Piercy" Subject: Re: Documentation of Inspections MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT The bee Improvement And Bee Breeders Association (BIBBA) has advocated selecting queens and drone breeder colonies according to strict criteria for quite a few years. They offer a standard record card which additionally includes stinginess, i.e. bees propensity to attack people nearby, and running over the comb, amount of honey gathered each year, swarminess, supersedure tendency, and presence of acarine, chalkbrood, nosema, and both foulbroods. You can add any characteristic you want to select for, so Varroa benefits from hygienic bees, which can be selected for although it is a multigenic factor.< aknight@blackgold.win-uk.net> can tell you more about BIBBA and where to obtain the record cards if you are interested. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 12:23:09 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tom Sanford Subject: Re: Wax Foundation Equipment. Comments: To: dhoward@CLEMSON.EDU MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Danny, I understand there are some mills being sold in the U.S., but can't locate them right now. I will put this out on the Bee-l discussion list. Meanwhile, a simple foundation maker is sold by Ets. Thomas in France. My 1997 Catalog says it costs 711 francs (5.77 to the dollar). To get a catalog or make and order, use the internet: http://www.apiservices.com/thomas/thomas_us.htm Tom Sanford. At 03:16 PM 12/11/97 -0500, you wrote: >Dr. Sanford, > > I have a request from a large beekeeper wanting to locate a source >to purchase wax foundation equipment. > He wants to make his own wax foundation.He is in the pollination >business in the coastal plain of S.C.!!! > >If you have any information I would be grateful !!!! > > Merry Christmas!!!! > > Danny. > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > >Danny Howard >County Agent-Agriculture/Apiculture >301 University Ridge,Ste 4300 >Greenville,S.C. 29601-3660 >864-232-4431 Fax-864-232-4738 >Dhoward@clemson.edu > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 12:17:12 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Subject: Beekeeper's Handbook Comments: cc: Diana Sammataro MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Diana Sammataro sent me the following and asked me to pass it along: --- The Beekeeper's Handbook, Third Edition by Diana Sammataro, Ph.D. and Alphonse Avitabile Diana Sammataro and Alphonse Avitabile have revised and expanded their clear and comprehensive guide to cover changes in beekeeping. They discuss, for example, the crisis created by the parasitic bee mites. In less than a decade, for example, Varroa mites have saturated the North American honey bee population with disastrous results, devastating both managed and wild populations. The new edition of The Beekeeper's Handbook covers mite detection and control, as well as the selection and testing of bees that may have some tolerance to mites. *Serves as a comprehensive introduction for beginners and a valuable reference for the experienced beekeeper *Illustrated with 90 original black-and-white drawings and 23 tables *Outlines alternative options for each operation within beekeeping, listing advantages and disadvantages of each alternative *Provides easy-to-follow directions and diagrams *Includes glossary and updated bibliography suggesting more detailed information on the topics discussed Diana Sammataro is Postdoctoral Researcher in the Department of Entomology Extension Bee Laboratory of The Ohio State University. Her dissertation work included the effect of oil patties on tracheal mites and she is currently working on an integrated pest management scheme to control both mites. Alphonse Avitabile is Emeritus Professor of Biology at the University of Connecticut, Waterbury. A Comstock Book, expected publication date: April, 224 pages Paper ISBN 0-8014-8503-7 $24.95 Books can be ordered from Cornell University Press by calling 607-277-2211, by faxing 1-800-688-2877, or by e-mailing orderbook@cupserv.org. By mail, orders should go to Cornell University Press, PO Box 6525, Ithaca, NY 14851-6525. People can also order through our website at: http://www.cornellpress.cornell.edu/cornellpress/orders.html or : http://www.cornellpress.cornell.edu/cornellpress ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 21:16:17 +1300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Organization: Bay of Plenty Polytechnic Subject: Re: Acarine and Oil of Wintergreen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > I hear that the Hawaiian > ones do get some injection of genes from mite selected bees. Maybe one of > our Aus or NZ breeders can indicate whether they are injecting mite > resistance into their stock in advance of mite appearance on their turf. No importations to New Zealand of bees or genetic material have taken place in some years now, though there are protocols in place to allow for genetic material importation (specific to Germany in the standards). You might find that interesting reading at: http://www.maf.govt.nz/AnimalIHS/anim-ihs/apisemic.htm Interesting to hear that bees are being taken into Hawaii. I thought I heard they were keen to keep bees (and mites) away from there. ;-) (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- home nickw@beekeeping.co.nz (/ work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz NZ Beekeeping http://www.beekeeping.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 14:22:05 EDT Reply-To: mnasr@evbhort.uoguelph.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Medhat Nasr Organization: Environ. Biology & Horticulture Subject: Re: Acarine and Oil of Wintergreen,...etc. Dear B-liners: We are back to debate if tracheal mites can kill bee colonies or not, effectiveness of breeding bees to tolerate mite infestation, resistance as a result of natural selection (survivors of heavy infestation) vs. laboratory selection, breeding and then implementing in our bee population, and relationship between winter mortality and tracheal mite infestations. First of all, I agree with Carry Clark's observations. I have been doing similar work in Ontario for the last 7 years and I found similar results. Bees colonies infested with mites above 40-50% (based on dissection of a sample of 50 bees/ hive) most likely will not make it through the winter. This conclusion was reported by Dr. Otis and Scott-Dupree at the University of Guelph and later supported by my research. There are several factors can effect the survivorship of bee colonies infested with mites. These factors are: 1. Mite prevalence in bee colonies. 2. Bee cluster size in late fall and early spring 3. Length of winter and the average temperature during the winter month. 4. Start of the spring season and the average temperature during spring. 5. Nosema infestation levels and susceptibility of bees to nosema. 6. Bee managements (Feed, providing protection dusring wintering). 7. Location of operation; Canada, northern states, and southern states. Secondaly, I would like to discuss few issues regarding variation of reported winter mortality. For those who reports that bees survived witer without treatment. I like to ask a question. What were the mite infestation leveles in those bee colonies before winter? In most cases , There is no answer. There is no monitoring by sampling bees and dissection to find out what was the mite level in bee colonies before winter. Therfore, the cause of colony mortality may or may not be due to tracheal mites. The assumption of bees with heavy mite infestations or untreated survived winter is wrong. It is unfortunate that most of the winter mortality reports have never mentioned the infestation levels in these hives before winter. Regarding late winter mortality, the tracheal mite infestations can be responsible for late winter mortality and can be complicated by nosema infestations assuming that there is enough feed. Sofar, research have shown in some places and certain operations during certain years there is a positive correlation between nosema infestations and tracheal mite infestations. However, in some years bee colonies with only heavy nosema infestations die in early spring. Other bee colonies with low nosema inestations and high levels of tracheal mites die, too. Befoer we make any conclusions we need qualified data to support these conclustions. Research in tracheal mites is laborious and needs carful experimental designs with appropriate controls and good experience with the biology of bees and tracheal mites (epidemiology). Just to give you an example, I have a beekeeper who complained to me about slow build up of his new requeened colonies in early summer. The beekeeper suggested that the slow build up of his colonies may be due to heavy tracheal mite infestations in these colonies. Though some call the scientists (.......) I did not take this beekeeper's word. I examined the colony and found that the new larvae starved to death though there was a lots of pollen and honey in these colonies. There was no royal jelly in the cells. I took bee samples and examined them for mites. There was no or very low mite infestations. We did examine for nosema and found heavy loads of spores. He could not believe this conclusion because he fed thsese colonies medicated syrup for nosema the previous fall. This example can give an idea about the value of sampling and examination of bee colonies to understand the problem. Rememebr in Canada, tracheal mites have not yet widely spread across the provinces and even within each province. For mite resistance, in early report to this group, I metioned the results of the field test for 17-18 month. We compared mite resistant bees to non-selected bees. In the test, we showed that 90% of the mite resistant colonies had less than 10% tracheal mite infestation (out of these colonies, 40% of the colonies had 0%). For the 8 control colonies, 6 colonies died the first winter due to high mite levels (>50%). This experiment was clear and clean demonstaration to Ontario beekeepers about mite resistant bees. By the way, this experiement was done in one of the Ontario Beekeepers' yards. He did all the managements and no formic acid use. In another note, Konna queens had send two time several frames of hatching brood from Hawaii to Buffalo, NY and I did screen their bees for mite resistance. The test was done in Buffalo, NY. I hope this will shed some lights on the efforts that are done to keep the mites under control in Ontario. Keep your eyes open, sample your bee hives, and treat when it is needed. Good Luck, Mehat Nasr, Ph.D. Ontario Beekeepers' Association c/o Dept. Environmental Biology Univesity of Guelph, Guelph, Ontario Canada ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 10:15:26 -0800 Reply-To: hilodon@fan.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Don Tinker Subject: Re: Acarine and Oil of Wintergreen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nick Wallingford wrote: > > > I hear that the Hawaiian > > ones do get some injection of genes from mite selected bees. Maybe one of > > our Aus or NZ breeders can indicate whether they are injecting mite > > resistance into their stock in advance of mite appearance on their turf. > > No importations to New Zealand of bees or genetic material have taken > place in some years now, though there are protocols in place to > allow for genetic material importation (specific to Germany in the > standards). You might find that interesting reading at: > http://www.maf.govt.nz/AnimalIHS/anim-ihs/apisemic.htm > > Interesting to hear that bees are being taken into Hawaii. I > thought I heard they were keen to keep bees (and mites) away from > there. ;-) The quote that you referred to said nothing about importation of bees to Hawaii. It probably was referring to semen importation. Don Tinker Big Island of Hawaii ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 21:09:32 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Murray McGregor Subject: Re: the bee drug barrons thread In-Reply-To: <01bd08b3$cc4e65a0$4708f4cf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 In article <01bd08b3$cc4e65a0$4708f4cf@default>, Frank & Phronsie Humphrey writes >I have been following some of this thread and some people >seem to think that beekeeping is a large market for the drug >companies. It is not and we are lucky to have the ones that >we do have. Even Terrimicin was developed for another >purpose altogether. There are however some dedicated >scientist who are also beekeepers trying to develop controls >for pest which affect our bees. If you don't like these >chemicals don't use them. I think you will be out of >business quickly > >As for other chemicals used in agriculture, the problems >arose from misuse rather than use mostly. When DDT was in >wide use, people said "Its bad don't use It". The farmers >begged for an alternative but none was forthcoming. When >Agribusiness became the majority of farming acreage, they >developed the safer chemicals for use on crops. We now have >chemicals that can be sprayed on crops, do their job and >break down within 12 to 24 hours. > >I am not a defender of the drug companies but someone is >doing something right. Life expectancy before drugs and >chemicals in the 1800s was 35 to 40. The latest figure I >heard in 1997 was 73 for men and 82 for women. > >Frank & Phronsie Humphrey >beekeepr@cdc.net In many ways this posting says pretty well what I was getting at. The sum total of the profits which are there to be made out of the beekeeping industry is barely sufficient (especially in the UK) for the pharmaceutical companies to devote the millions of dollars required to firstly find, then research and develop, then test for a plethora of potential snags, then trial for efficacy, then seek state approvals (very, very expensive!), and finally actively market, any new substance for treating mites. Then to risk all this investment, and immense amounts in potential damages claims, by deliberately and callously lying about the nature of the substance, to make (relatively) modest profits would seem to make no commercial sense to me, even in the world of the most vicious profiteers. (Which is how some respondents seem to regard these companies.) You are relatively lucky in the USA insofar as you have a larger bee industry to make it more viable for these developments to take place. In the UK we only legally have Bayvarol. Even Apistan is not yet registered for legal use here. The costs of getting these approvals alone, without any consideration for other cost factors, means that it is almost impossible to bring a new treatment profitably to market here. If you have problem with these treatments that is your concern, their use is not compulsory. However, I don't think anyone should be encouraging others, some of whom may be easily swayed by unsubstantiated alarming statements, to leap, lemming-like, off the 'no treatment for varroa' cliff. I don't greatly care what treatment you use, just use any EFFECTIVE one which suits you. Also, please remember, you probably have a neighbour. They will not really want the precious gift of all your mites when your colonies collapse, just as you would not want theirs. -- Murray McGregor ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 13:49:22 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: MARK G SPAGNOLO Subject: Mites, bee imports and Hawaii! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aloha: Just a quick note to set the record straight. Don is correct. No bees have been brought into Hawaii for almost 20 years. However, Kona Queen does import semen on a regular basis. We use semen from Sue Cobey's New World Carniolan line and semen collected from selected colonies in both the United States and Canada. We have also used Dr. Nasr's mite resistence tests on our selected breeders. This does not involve importation of any bees, but helps us develop a level of mite resistence. Dr. Nasr's subjects the emerging bees to mites and reports the infestation levels back to us. We then use this information to help us select breeder colonies. Testing resistance without having mites! All of these methods are designed to help us stay current with mite resistence issues without having mites. At one time the absence of mites in Hawaii was a big selling point. Now that status has almost reversed itself. I am not convinced that actual resistance can be achieved through breeding. (It almost seems like breeding sheep that are resistant to wolves). But, if it is possible, we want to be involved. We have donated mite-free queens to several reseach projects to be used as controls in breeding studies. Hopefully an answer will be found to the mite problems, but we intend to stay mite-free and would never endanger that status by importing any live bees or used bee equipment. Mark at Kona Queen ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 21:32:02 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: mineral oil Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" There is often, on this list, a lot of good information about mite control followed by a test such as in the original paragraph below. I suggest that the information is useful but am wary about these 'quick' tests. Please keep sharing them but let us be cautious about interpreting them. I do not know what level of Varoa would be cause for concern and would appreciate some suggestions here but is the 1 per 300 bees significant? I would expect that mid October hives might have 40,000 plus bees each. At a rate of 1 per 300 bees that is 133 mites per hive and 1,330 in the apiary. And this does not consider the mites still in the cells. Is this significant? Further, I do not see 300 bees necessarily as a representative population. Something like the ether roll may have a use as a quick test in the field but I suggest that it is only useful in detecting a great mite population and may not be useful as lower levels. > >I used this method all summer with very good results, I did have bees >hatching out that were deformed most of the summer. In the fall every colony >looked exeptionally heathy no more bees looking deformed. My colonies were >inspected by the a Minnesota bee inpector in october an ether roll resulted >in 1 mite from 300 bees tested, samples taken from 10 colonies. This method >does take a little longer to get results but it is much easier to apply. > Eric Abell Gibbons, Alberta Canada T0A 1N0 Ph/fax (403) 998 3143 eabell@compusmart.ab.ca ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 05:30:49 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "A.JOHNSTON" Subject: Returned e-mails Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To, Medhat Nasr, I have sent you two emails and had them both returned. Is your address correct or am I doing something wrong? regards.Andrew Johnston ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 09:37:28 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: WUhlman Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: New Zealand Beekeepers Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I'll be travelling in New Zealand from 21 January to 26 January---beginning in Queenstown and ending in Christchurch. If any beekeepers are available and interested in exchanging information and ideas, I'd appreciate hearing from you. I'm a hobbyist and lawyer by profession from Seattle, Washington state, U.S. paricularly interested in how you are dealing with the mite problems. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 10:19:29 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: The Bee Works Subject: Re: Mites, bee imports and Hawaii! In-Reply-To: <199712152355.SAB71302@pimout1-int.prodigy.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 15 Dec 97 at 13:49, MARK G SPAGNOLO wrote: > We have also used Dr. Nasr's mite resistence tests on our selected > breeders. This does not involve importation of any bees, but helps > us develop a level of mite resistence. Dr. Nasr's subjects the > emerging bees to mites and reports the infestation levels back to > us. We then use this information to help us select breeder > colonies. Testing resistance without having mites! > I am not convinced that actual resistance can be achieved through > breeding. > (It almost seems like breeding sheep that are resistant to wolves). > But, > if it is possible, we want to be involved. We have donated > mite-free queens to several reseach projects to be used as controls > in breeding studies. Few people realise the extent or level of work being done on breeding T-mite resistance. For example, Dr.Nasr's year is solely in the search and research into T-mites and resistance. I would question Mark's statement "I am not convinced that actual resistance can be achieved through breeding". Brother Adam spent a great deal of his time achieving this, and surely natural selection is a form of breeding selection. It took 30+ years to achieve a resistant bee by natural selection.. Question. Do we really want to wait 30 years before natural selection takes over our problems? I certainly don't, which is why those who can, do. ******************************************* The Bee Works, 9 Progress Dr, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1 Phone/fax 705-326-7171 David Eyre, Owner. http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks e-mail ******************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 11:48:28 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: NOVEMBER HONEY MARKET MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT > > ... but I do think my chances of resting in peace on top of Granddad at > Arlington have been eliminated because of my cynical public views of > the present US government. C'mon Andy! This is the Clinton era where $50,000 will get you burried next to JFK himself! /Aa ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 16:21:25 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: JJ Imker Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: poison honey? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit One of my friends recently mentionend that he had heard that early spring honey is "poisionous" I never heard this before. Did anybody else? Juergen of Beeline ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 17:31:27 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: EuroXboy Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: Documentation of Inspections Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 97-12-14 10:17:02 EST, you write: << Worker Queen Drone Egg hatched 3 3 3 Cell sealed 8 8 10 Emerge 21 16 24 Mature - 20 37 >> Tom For some time I've been thinking about how to keep a record of each hive, now with your form I can do so. I don't understand what the above part of the form means, would you mind explaining this to me? Thank you so much Keith Amberson ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 16:35:10 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: STEVE PHILLIPS Subject: Proposed USDA Regs, Organic Foods The proposed USDA regulations on foods labeled as "organic" can be found on-line at: http://www.ams.usda.gov/nop/ Generally, to label honey as organic the regs require that the bees forage predominately from areas in which no chemical pesticides or fertilizers are used. This will be very difficult in much of the U.S. The regs would also prohibit use of Apistan. I do not claim my honey is organic, and it has always annoyed me that some other small, local producers who follow exactly management practices that I do (Apistan), still label their honey as "organic." ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 17:31:28 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: EuroXboy Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: the bee drug barrons thread Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 97-12-15 12:33:35 EST, you write: << Interests: Fliis and bees >> Garth I often wondered what a Fliis was, maybe fleas mispelled, maybe some exotic South African creature, who could ever guess? Finally I find mentioned in your previous post on the Bee-L it is your girlfriend's name. Hope all is going fine. Keith Amberson ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 13:34:27 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Thomas W. Culliney" Subject: Website for Dadant or ABJ? In-Reply-To: <971216.114908.EST.SYSAM@cnsibm.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Would anyone know if Dadant & Sons or the American Bee Journal has a home page on the World Wide Web? Specifically, I seek an e-mail address (if one exists) for Joe Graham, Editor of the ABJ. ************************************************************************* Tom Culliney Hawaii Dept. of Agriculture, Division of Plant Industry, 1428 South King St., Honolulu, HI 96814, U.S.A. E-mail: culliney@elele.peacesat.hawaii.edu Telephone: 808-973-9528 FAX: 808-973-9533 "To a rough approximation and setting aside vertebrate chauvinism, it can be said that essentially all organisms are insects."--R.M. May (1988) "Bugs are not going to inherit the earth. They own it now. So we might as well make peace with the landlord."--T. Eisner (1989) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 19:02:07 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Verville Subject: Homemade extractors, need help? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I just finished building two new extractors. One is a thirty frame parallel radial extractor and the other is a twenty frame radial. Both are made of plywood and from readily available hardware store items. The 30 frame costed me about $125 and the twenty frame about $60. The problem I have is I suck when it comes to drawing. I just make stupid little picture and notes. I would like to have some one draw them up and post them on the internet. I have a friend who has his own home page and said he would post them for free. Any one interested in drawing them up? Dave Verville ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 16:19:23 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Andy L. Kettlewell" Subject: Re: Website for Dadant or ABJ? Comments: To: culliney@elele.peacesat.hawaii.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Check out the ABF (American Beekeeping Federation) website, I do believe that they have a links page. >Would anyone know if Dadant & Sons or the American Bee Journal has a home >page on the World Wide Web? Specifically, I seek an e-mail address (if one >exists) for Joe Graham, Editor of the ABJ. > >************************************************************************* >Tom Culliney Hawaii Dept. of Agriculture, Division of Plant Industry, >E-mail: culliney@elele.peacesat.hawaii.edu -- Andy L. Kettlewell Rungun305@Earthlink.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 15:09:31 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Moriarty Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 14 Dec 1997 to 15 Dec 1997 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Bees are not allowed into Hawaii, just bee semen... Aloha, mike moriarty \\\|/// \\~~ ~~// (/ @ @ /) +--oOOO----------(_)--------------+ | Michael Moriarty | | P.O. Box 1102 | | Kapaau, Hawaii 96755 | | 808-889-5809 | +--------------------------oOOO---+ |___|___| | | | | oooO Oooo ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 20:11:09 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Keith B. Forsyth" Subject: Re: Website for Dadant or ABJ? Comments: To: "Andy L. Kettlewell" In-Reply-To: <199712170019.QAA08416@iceland.it.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Dadant's web page address is http://www.dadant.com Email for the ABJ ABJ@dadant.com On Tue, 16 Dec 1997, Andy L. Kettlewell wrote: > Check out the ABF (American Beekeeping Federation) website, I do believe > that they have a links page. > > >Would anyone know if Dadant & Sons or the American Bee Journal has a home > >page on the World Wide Web? Specifically, I seek an e-mail address (if one > >exists) for Joe Graham, Editor of the ABJ. > > > >************************************************************************* > >Tom Culliney Hawaii Dept. of Agriculture, Division of Plant Industry, > >E-mail: culliney@elele.peacesat.hawaii.edu > -- > Andy L. Kettlewell > Rungun305@Earthlink.net > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 11:36:47 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "A.Piercy" Subject: Re: poison honey? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT There are several reports of poison honey, and there are a number of plants which produce very rank flavoured honey which is supposed to be rather unpleasant to eat. I'll have to look up the article for the particulars but I have an account of a couple of honeys which render the eater unconscious or cause hallucinations. I assume they would have to be monofloral and there have to be a substantial stand of whatever forage in one place for it to be a problem. Spring honey in itself is not poisonous, because that simply covers a vast range of plants flowering in the early months of the year. The statement of the plant species would have to be far more specific. Rhododendron ponticum, which is a naturalised exotic in parts of Britain, is supposed to produce poisonous honey, but there are a few acres of it near me, and sudden death or malaise induced by honey is not a local issue at all. Senecio jacobea, or ragwort, is a weed that has spread rapidly in recent years and that is reputed to give an unpleasant flavour to honey, although this diminishes over time. I have a story from roman times where honey was used as a non lethal disabling agent. Combs of one kind were left in the route of an invading force, and troops who ate it became uncoordinated and unable to fight for a time. A meandering answer to the question on spring honey, I think the answer is that poisonous honeys exist but they ar eno t necessarily Spring honeys. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 07:31:43 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Website for Dadant or ABJ? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT http://www.dadant.com/index.htm Aaron Morris - thinking happy holidays! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 18:48:44 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rimantas Zujus Subject: Beekeeping museum Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Garry Libby asked if there was a beekeeping museum in Lithuania?? =20 Also ... if Germany has one?? Do You know this Information??=20 Garry Libby Boston,USA LibBEE@msn.com Today I noticed an article on German museum in our newspaper "Bitute = Ratuota" arranged by "Bauernzeitung".=20 In a M=D6THLOW hamlet, BRANDENBURG land a Beekeeping and Agriculture = museum (Bienninmuseum) is created befofe 11 years by Henry Krac. Over = 200 beekeeping tools. Good luck for travellers. Rimantas Zujus Kaunas LITHUANIA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 20:03:12 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rimantas Zujus Subject: hive without a bottom Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Last time there is discussed here about hives with wire net instead of a = floor.=20 Reason : Dadant hives keep great moisture. It creates subtropical (i.e. = excellent) conditions for Varroa Jacobsoni development and hard ones for = a colony. Papers say this is used in a half Western Europe and comes to USA. = Really ? ("BITUTE RATUOTA", 29.12.97., nr 94, Dr. A.AMSIEJUS, 21 hives = without bottoms) A profit using such hive : ( After 5 years of observation by = Mr.STEPONAITIS ) 1. Moisture drops to normal. 2. Better nectar venting while flow. 3. Colony's productivity raizes even five times (? ! ) 4. Mites number decreases obviously (they drop down on the soil, worse = reproducing conditions) 5. After using additional chemical means ( in autumn, 10 hives ) no mite = was found. Loss :=20 1. Winter honey consumption rises by 20-40 percent What your expierence says ? Sincerely Rimantas Zujus Kaunas LITHUANIA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 22:44:41 EDT Reply-To: mnasr@evbhort.uoguelph.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Medhat Nasr Organization: Environ. Biology & Horticulture Subject: Eastern Canada Apiculture Symposium Comments: To: ontbee@tcc.on.ca Dear b-liners: The Maritimes, Ontario, and Quebec Beekeeping Associations are holding the following Symposium: EASTERN CANADA APICULTURAL SYMPOSIUM SPONSORED BY THE MARITIMES, ONTARIO & QUEBEC JULY 11, 1998 DESCHAMBAULT RESEARCH STATION - DESCHAMBAULT, QUEBEC This event will feature Dr. Nikolaus Koeniger, renowned German researcher, Mr. Jocelyn Marceau, Apicuture researcher, Quebec, Dr.Medhat Nasr, Ontario Beekeepers' Association and other beekeepers representing the Maritimes, Ontario, and Quebec. Simulttaneous translation will be provided. Bus tour to several beekeeping locations and the research station will be organized. Don't Miss This Exiting Opportunity to Visit Quebec, Meet with Fellow Beekeepers from Eastern Canada, and Learn from the Various Speakers FOR MORE INFORMATION CONTACT: > MARITIMES - PAUL VAUTOUR @ 506-388-5127 ONTARIO - PAT WESTLAKE @ 519-565-2622 phone > @ 519-565-5452 fax > ontbee@tcc.on.ca e-mail QUEBEC - PETER KEATING @ 418-251-6435 phone > @ 418-251-2373 keating@destination.ca e-mail > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 00:41:37 -0800 Reply-To: vcoppola@epix.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Re: Acarine and Oil of Wintergreen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Allen and Bee-Lers, Allen Dick wrote: > At any rate, I wonder, in the cases of both Vince and David, what controls > have been used to verify that the reason for mite decline is actually > related to the breeding? Mites seem to have their cycles and the levels > David reports seems consistent with what we are obtaining buying queens > from wherever they are available and cheap. That's a good question. Actually the controls for our experiments are just what one would expect, ordinary colonies, as identical to the colonies being evaluated as is practical, except for the queen. As I've mentioned before, the results have been very satisfactory. I'm glad you have not had high levels of tracheal mites. You are blessed indeed. Those of us not so fortunate have had some pretty tough years. In my area more than half, closer to two thirds, of the beekeepers were wiped out in the late 80's and early 90's. Back then few were taking any precautions against the tracheal mite. The advice from the "experts" was that tracheal mites were not a threat of economic significance. Those who began to treat were able to turn things around, most who did not are no longer beekeepers. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 01:49:29 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Sid Pullinger Subject: Tracheal Mites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 <<<<<<<> We have been in the Ontario Breeding for 4 years, and when we > first started to test and select for T-mite resistance we were finding = up > to 250 mites per bee. Now by selection and breeding we have reduced tha= t > to no mites or figures like .25 mites in 50% of bees tested. Well below= > the economic threshhold. In other words, at these figures there is no > need for treatment or loss to T-mites.>>>>>> <<<<<>>>>>> Whilst I do not in any way dispute the claims that bee breeders have produced resistance to tracheal mites by selective breeding I am very puzzled as to how this may come about. It is said that the bees are damaged by bacteria entering the blood stream by way of the bites. I ca= n understand bees becoming resistant to such bacteria but not in a few year= s. This in no way would lessen the number of mites appearing, which appears= to be the case. The mites enter the tracheae by the main spiracles and = only when the bee is young. Any physical change to keep the mites out would need hundreds of years of evolution. Have we already got bees whose= spiracles restrict entry? Fewer mites means restricted breeding. Have the bees suddenly become distasteful to the mites? Have they in some way= upset the breeding cycle? Is it not possible that the mites go through periods of vigour and depression? All very puzzling. Lots of suggestions, please. In a recent letter to the list I said that acarine was no longer a proble= m. I had two replies from local beekeepers. One told me that in a recent test carried out on 120 colonies only two showed slight traces of mites. = The other had found a colony with around 100% infestation "tracheae absolutely black with mites" and was treating with grease patties. So it= seems to come and go. Although it is snowing and bitterly cold as I write this we are normally blessed with mild winters. We usually get short breaks when the temperature rises to allow the bees to make cleansing flights and breedin= g can start in late January. Although acarine is said to shorten the live= s of wintering bees this does not have much effect in a short winter. If y= ou live in an area where the winters are long, hard and unbroken and breedin= g is delayed. the situation changes and you can well have the old bees dyin= g off faster than the young are produced. Thus you have an apparently healthy colony in midwinter collapsing in March or April. In such a situation I would accept that autumn testing and treatment would be necessary. Sid P. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 19:59:57 +1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: j h & e mcadam Subject: Re: Australian Beekeepers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I am a U.S. hobbyist (sometimes lawyer) visiting Australia for the third time >next month and would like to contact an Aussie counterpart for observation & >discussion. I am will be in Adelaide on 15 January, in Sydney on 12 & 13 >January and Adelaide15 January. I have not seen any replies posted to this query although the South Australian apiary industry is alive and well - perhaps not connected to the Internet, though. The Secretary of South Australian Apiarists Association is Kay Lambert (Fax: 61-8-8849 2228 Tel: 61-8-8849 2075). She would be the best contact for details of beekeepers in Adelaide itself. It is possible to visit Kangaroo Island on a day trip but I do not recommend this - by the time you get here and turn around, it is time to return to Adelaide. There are several sites of interest to apiarists including a limestone cave with 9 feral hives, one of which has built comb a metre and a half in length. A queen breeder on the Island is so impressed with this hive he has grafted queen cells from it for his own use. The site is known to apiarists and to National Park staff who regularly conduct Adventure Caving for school children with no confrontation occurring between users, but is not a regular tourist stop. If you cannot spare several days to explore the Island, better to give it a miss. I recommend you check out the Honey Shoppe in Adelaide which is in the arcade connecting Victoria Square to the Central Market. It is operated by an extended beekeeping family by the name of Gilbert who have marketed their own varietal honeys for many years (in particular their orange blossom honey) and now offer for sale honeys from all over Australia so you can see Tasmanian and Queensland honeys (and Kangaroo Island honeys), in the one location. The shop is usually staffed by family members. Betty McAdam HOG BAY APIARY Penneshaw, Kangaroo Island j.h. & e. mcadam Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Augustus C.Skamarycz" Subject: Re: Beekeeping museum Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At 06:48 PM 12/17/97 +0200, you wrote: >Garry Libby >asked if there was a beekeeping museum in Lithuania?? =20 >Also ... if Germany has one?? Do You know this Information??=20 > >Garry Libby >Boston,USA >LibBEE@msn.com > >Today I noticed an article on German museum in our newspaper "Bitute Ratuota" arranged by "Bauernzeitung".=20 > >In a M=D6THLOW hamlet, BRANDENBURG land a Beekeeping and Agriculture museum (Bienninmuseum) is created befofe 11 years by Henry Krac. Over 200 beekeeping tools. > >Good luck for travellers. > >Rimantas Zujus >Kaunas >LITHUANIA > >Outside of Celle, Germany is a Great Museum and institute all about Bees.= =20 It is 6KM outside of Hanover in Northern Saxony ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 08:05:20 +0000 Reply-To: elevi@aristotle.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ed Levi &/or Jan Townsley Subject: Re: hive without a bottom MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rimantas, When I kept bees in France I had bottom boards with two, 10 centimeter, screened holes and liked it. When I started keeping bees in the states (Arkansas), I put simular holes in all my bottom boards just to have the bees seal them up with propolis. Now I use solid bottom boards but leave large entrances and gap my supers during nectar flows. I don't know if it was the bees or the climate which caused the difference. Ed Levi Rimantas Zujus wrote: > > Last time there is discussed here about hives with wire net instead of a floor. > Reason : Dadant hives keep great moisture. It creates subtropical (i.e. excellent) conditions for Varroa Jacobsoni development and hard ones for a colony. > > Papers say this is used in a half Western Europe and comes to USA. Really ? ("BITUTE RATUOTA", 29.12.97., nr 94, Dr. A.AMSIEJUS, 21 hives without bottoms) > > A profit using such hive : ( After 5 years of observation by Mr.STEPONAITIS ) > 1. Moisture drops to normal. > 2. Better nectar venting while flow. > 3. Colony's productivity raizes even five times (? ! ) > 4. Mites number decreases obviously (they drop down on the soil, worse reproducing conditions) > 5. After using additional chemical means ( in autumn, 10 hives ) no mite was found. > > Loss : > 1. Winter honey consumption rises by 20-40 percent > > What your expierence says ? > > Sincerely > Rimantas Zujus > Kaunas > LITHUANIA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 07:25:41 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Tracheal Mites In-Reply-To: <199712180149_MC2-2C5F-ABA9@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Any physical change to keep the mites out would need hundreds of years > of evolution. Have we already got bees whose spiracles restrict entry? > Fewer mites means restricted breeding. Have the bees suddenly become > distasteful to the mites? Have they in some way upset the breeding > cycle? Is it not possible that the mites go through periods of vigour > and depression? Apparently there is already quite a bit of diversity in many honeybee characteristics and the necessary traits may already be widespread The most obvious explanation for fairly fast development of apparent resistance is the quick elimination of bees that are particularly susceptible to TM from the breeding pool. This takes place after a few big losses -- or in any selection program, although in the latter there is an attempt to select the 'best'. Since this is subjective, it may result in skewing the results in some unpredictable way. Since most of the 'worst' bees are quickly eliminated, it then becomes a problem of fixing the traits. This takes longer. Interestingly enough, we are trying to find resistance in our bees to tracheal mites while trying to avoid resistance in varroa mites to our controls. Understanding the mechanisms of resistance are of great importance these days. Resistance is working both for us and against us. The mechanisms are subtle and there are many factors to consider. I am not at all sure that I have much understanding of the topic. > If you live in an area where the winters are long, hard and unbroken > and breeding is delayed. the situation changes and you can well have the > old bees dying off faster than the young are produced. Thus you have an > apparently healthy colony in midwinter collapsing in March or April. In > such a situation I would accept that autumn testing and treatment would > be necessary. I have heard that fall is too late, since by then the bees that are going to winter are already infested; treatment will kill the tracheal mites inside them and reduce thre infestation of the next generation, but the lives of the winter bees are already shortened. Allen ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 10:08:45 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: WUhlman Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: Australian Beekeepers Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Many thanks for the tips. I wasn't aware that there was any beekeeping activity in Tasmania and inasmuch as I'll be there a day, I'll look into it. Again thanks for the effort! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 08:37:27 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: NEW BEE STAMP Comments: To: B-LIST@mail.thegrid.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=====================_882491847==_" --=====================_882491847==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" --=====================_882491847==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" NEW HONEYBEE STAMP Today's Papers From Slate Magazine (http://www.slate.com) The WSJ (Wall Stree Journal) reports that the U.S. Postal Service plans to issue a philanthropy stamp next year that will depict a bee pollinating a flower and will bear the words: "Giving and Sharing: an American Tradition." Guess the rights to the Pamela and Tommy Lee video weren't available. For the latest news, check out MSNBC (http://www.msnbc.com). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Slate (http://www.slate.com) is the online magazine of news, politics and culture. Give us an hour, we'll give you the week. For free weekly delivery of a text-only version of SLATE, designed for easy printout, send e-mail to microsoft-request@microsoft.nwnet.com and on a line by itself in the message, type: subscribe slateprint --=====================_882491847==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" -- Politics: Poli (many) - tics (blood sucking parasites) --=====================_882491847==_-- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 21:10:57 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: Poison honey Hi All Many of the plants of the Euphorbiacea produce reasonably large flows of honey that is reasonably poisonous. In south africa the E.triangularus, as well as some others known as the melkboom (milk tree) and melktou (milk rope) and something called noors that looks like it is from a sci fi movie can produce a honey that tastes very nice, and then starts burning with increasing intensity in your throat for about an hour afterwards. Repetitive consumption leads to a toxic condition forming that is if I remember correctly the result of membrane destabilistion in the lungs and liver - is quite bad for one. Interestingly enough in Natal/Kwazulu the Zulu people are particularily wary of the honey's produced by stingless bees that forage on these plants as they are more toxic, and apparently at times the bees will also defend their hives by placing the resin from euphorbiacea on the attacker - resulting in unbearable itching for hours after wards. The resin is a latex. It is also interesting to note that an extract of a commong south american euphorbia is used to make the poison Rotonone which is used to make fish die in certain icthyological methods. It acts by inhibiting oxygen uptake through the gills. In the Commores fisherman began to use the stuff to fish and developed a number of degenerative diseases. However, in South Africa I know of some people who sell euphorb honey to Sangomas (Politically Correct word for a Xhosa witch doctor/shaman) who prescribe it for people with certain cancers - esp stomach cancers. I have heard some orthodox research was also carried out in this regard as know some one who supplied a batch of such honey to a research group - do not know what the results were though. Anyhow, hope that was of interest. Keep well Garth --- Garth Cambray Kamdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Apis melifera capensis Grahamstown 800mm annual precipitation 6139 Eastern Cape South Africa Phone 27-0461-311663 On holiday for a few months Rhodes University Which means: working with bees 15 hours a day! Interests: Fliis and bees Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this post in no way reflect those of Rhodes University. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 15:27:24 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: FAITHAB Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: Beekeeping museum Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Just a note about beekeeping museums. When in the south of France (north of Nice, I think) we found a wonderful beekeeping museum. Quite work our stop. Faith Andrews Bedford ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 16:52:33 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: The Bee Works Subject: Re: Tracheal Mites In-Reply-To: <199712180149_MC2-2C5F-ABA9@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 18 Dec 97 at 1:49, Sid Pullinger wrote: > > Whilst I do not in any way dispute the claims that bee breeders have > produced resistance to tracheal mites by selective breeding I am > very puzzled as to how this may come about. I think we are confusing a number of issues in this post, and possibly the only way to clear up the problem would be to recount what we had to do to achieve T-mite resistance. We had been extending our yards for some years by buying queens from a variety of Ontario breeders, as the yard we had obtained had started inbreeding. The previous owner didn't worry too much, and as a result the egg pattern had started to disintegrate. Dr. Nasr's program came at just the right time for us, so we isolated 15 hives all unrelated to each other. With the program we tested each hive for resistance or susceptibility to T-mites. Out of those we found 5 which were susceptible and ranged up to resistant. We removed the bad, some of which we culled, and bred from the top ones. After 3 generations the quality of resistance didn't change. Basically resistance is natural, there are no changes made to the bees. The reason for resistance is not fully understood, some are resistant, some not, all we have done is selected the best. Regretfully the North American method of bee keeping is maintaining susceptible bees. Whereas in the UK the bad were allowed to die, mainly because in the first instances there was no treatment for T-mites, here they are medicated and therefore perpetuate. This of course keeps the problem rolling, as these bees mate, even with resistant queens and weaken the resistant strain. As I have said many times, T-mites are still a major problem, they are just masked by medication for V-mites. The only true way to determine T-mite resistance is the assay test where young bees, less than 24hrs old are inserted into a T-mite hive. One week later they are found, sliced and examined under a microscope. Now you can count mites, larvae and eggs. But how many even take the time to send bees to the lab for checking? The average bee keeper thinks it's more cost effective to slap a grease pattie on and forget it!!! As I said before perpetuating the problem. > test carried out on 120 colonies only two showed slight traces of > mites. The other had found a colony with around 100% infestation > "tracheae absolutely black with mites" and was treating with grease > patties. As I said perpetuating the problem. Wouldn't a better solution be to re-queen with the first guy's stock? > wintering bees this does not have much effect in a short winter. If > you live in an area where the winters are long, hard and unbroken > and breeding is delayed. the situation changes and you can well have > the old bees dying off faster than the young are produced. Thus you > have an apparently healthy colony in midwinter collapsing in March > or April. In such a situation I would accept that autumn testing > and treatment would be necessary. I think the best analogy would be to ask. How well do you perform when your lungs are full of junk? I had double pnuemonia a couple of years ago, almost killed me, what does the same thing do for your bees? Comments? ******************************************* The Bee Works, 9 Progress Dr, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1 Phone/fax 705-326-7171 David Eyre, Owner. http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks e-mail ******************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 16:56:54 -0600 Reply-To: rcanaday@ionet.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Canaday Subject: Re: NEW BEE STAMP MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Andy, Thank you for the heads up on this one. Image of the new stamp should be available at http://www.usps.gov/images/stamps/98/givnsha.jpg Happy holidays everyone. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 19:25:33 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: NEW BEE STAMP Comments: To: rcanaday@ionet.net In-Reply-To: <3499AA36.53D4@ionet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Roy and All, Best of the Season to You & Yours! Could anyone identify the insect and plant on this stamp for me? http://www.usps.gov/images/stamps/98/givnsha.jpg I only assumed it was a HoneyBee when I passed on the "news filler" and the HoneyBee would be shown with some plant of importance to man, but this looks more like some kind of "yellow jacket" and a bindweed or morning glory plant. I guess this proves that postage stamp art is all in the eye (of the beekeeper), remembering the poorly colored embossed 15 cent envelope bee on the orange blossom of a few years ago. The OLd Drone still has some of these embossed stamped envelopes and would be happy to include them in his Christmas Special: two (2) hand painted and crafted chain pulls one (1) Pooh fan fold book one (1) Embossed stamped envelope (US Government Issue) All for $20.00, I pay the postage USA, Canada add postage, all others forget it unless you can afford the postage which I am sorry it is too much, IMHO. E-Mail me for fastest service at: andy.nachbaur@calwest.net Andy Nachbaur (209) 826-2261, CCC (catch as catch can) 1522 Paradise Lane Los Banos, CA 93635 ttul, the OLd Drone At 04:56 PM 12/18/97 -0600, Roy Canaday wrote: >Andy, Thank you for the heads up on this one. Image of the new stamp >should be available at > http://www.usps.gov/images/stamps/98/givnsha.jpg >Happy holidays everyone. (c)Permission is given to copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 23:29:12 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Al Needham Subject: Re: NEW BEE STAMP Hi Andy: I also took a peek at the new Bee Stamp and was not impressed at all. Decided to keep my mouth shut until your comment popped up ... Would have been better to show just a jar of yummy honey ! It was obviously designed by someone who wouldn't know a honey bee from a jackass. Bit of a stretch isn't it to categorize it under "Philanthropy" ? They should have snatched one of P-O Gustafsson's great close-up photos off his web site. I don't think he would have sued. What's the deal if you leave out the Pooh fan fold book ? Al, ----------------------------------------------------------- <"Mailto: awneedham@juno.com" > Scituate,Massachusetts,USA The Beehive- Educational Honey Bee Site http://www.xensei.com/users/alwine/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 23:46:02 -0800 Reply-To: vcoppola@epix.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Re: Tracheal Mites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Sid, Sid Pullinger wrote: that it can, but effectiveness can only be *proven* if there are adequate > controls to show that other effects are not responsible for the decline > in infestations. I doubt in most cases if there are. Numerous experiments in NY and Ont., some formal, some amateur, have shown very good results with Dr. Nasr's program. > Whilst I do not in any way dispute the claims that bee breeders have > produced resistance to tracheal mites by selective breeding I am very > puzzled as to how this may come about. The mites enter the tracheae by the main spiracles and only when the bee is young. Any physical change to keep the mites out > would need hundreds of years of evolution. Have we already got bees whose > spiracles restrict entry? All very puzzling. Lots of > suggestions, please. > This is a good question because there seems to be much confusion over this. You are correct in saying that "Any physical change to keep the mites out would need hundreds of years of evolution". This is not how artificial selection works. A selection program does not seek to produce mutations. It is meant to increase the frequency of genes that express the desired characteristic. These genes, or characteristics, must already exist in the population we select from. There is a great deal of variability in a typical population of honey bees. When we first began to select, the local population had already been exposed to t mite for several years. We found that about one fourth of the preselected colonies were valuable as breeders. In Ont. began selection before their bees were exposed for very long. They got about one in ten. Evidently we got a benefit of some natural selection. Regarding your comment on restriction of spiracle entry, we do not know if this is the mechanism. The assay devised by Dr. Page and Dr. Gary did not identify any mechanism of resistance but showed that resistance to t mite is hereditary and could be selected using that assay. It would be wonderful to know the exact mechanism we are dealing with but it is not imperative. > In a recent letter to the list I said that acarine was no longer a problem. > I had two replies from local beekeepers. One told me that in a recent > test carried out on 120 colonies only two showed slight traces of mites. > The other had found a colony with around 100% infestation "tracheae > absolutely black with mites" and was treating with grease patties. So it > seems to come and go. This should not be surprising. As I've mentioned in other posts these relationships are cyclical. Some interesting, related, reading is "chaos theory". There are plenty of books. Its really fun to model this stuff on a spreadsheet and learn how touchy population dynamics can be. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 21:15:01 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: NEW BEE STAMP In-Reply-To: <19971218.232919.4414.1.awneedham@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:29 PM 12/18/97 -0500, you wrote: > >What's the deal if you leave out the Pooh fan fold book ? > Hi Al, You got to take the book, its all part of the package deal. You have my personal guarantee you will find someone to give the book too if you have one or are really not interested in Pooh. The retail price of the book was as high as $18.95, the two (2) hand made Bee Pulls $7.50 each, and the bee stamped embossed envelope is a collectors item and will go up in value which some list at over $2.00 now. Plus I am paying the $3.00 postage to US addresses. None of this stuff was made in China which in it's self is remarkable for this is truly the biggest Chinese X-Mass ever to hit the United States and considering everything that is on sale in the US markets today that was imported from Asia can be purchased at over 50% of its original wholesale price last July. I must say the book was crafted by real Mexican's in Mexico because this type of special "pop out" printing is mostly done off shore because of the slow speed printing equipment needed to do that job. TU, the Old Drone (c)Permission is given to copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 20:40:28 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Moriarty Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 17 Dec 1997 to 18 Dec 1997 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Got to admit that the new bee stamp... http://www.usps.gov/images/stamps/98/givnsha.jpg ... is pathetic. Perhaps the Postal Service should have had a contest at some of the elementary schools... I bet they could have come up with better art. Aloha, Mike Moriarty \\\|/// \\~~ ~~// (/ @ @ /) +--oOOO----------(_)--------------+ | Michael Moriarty | | P.O. Box 1102 | | Kapaau, Hawaii 96755 | | 808-889-5809 | +--------------------------oOOO---+ |___|___| | | | | oooO Oooo ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 23:16:50 -0800 Reply-To: snielsen@orednet.org Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Susan L. Nielsen" Subject: Re: NEW BEE STAMP >You got to take the book, its all part of the package deal. You have my >personal guarantee you will find someone to give the book too if you have >one or are really not interested in Pooh. Blah, blah. Why do we have to put up with this guy's ads on the list? I have kept my mouth shut in the past, but this really bugs me, and I resent it. I pay for my service. So I have to pay to get his unsolicited ads. At the very least it's rude and inappropriate. Susan -- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 01:39:54 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: NEW BEE STAMP Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi All Beekeepers, Even in this Holy Season there are some of us that need to do a little business like there are some who need to express personal negative opinions, must be the stress of the season. I am sorry anyone feel's like this beekeeper below does, if she will e-mail me her mail address I will send her a nice family Christmas gift of one of my Beekeeping Care Packages to, in a small way make up the losses she feels she has had because of my posting. I wish I could send you all one, but I can't at this time. I do advertise here occasionally, less then once a month in an effort to recover some of the costs of running the Wild Bee's BBS E-Mail Auto Responder which has over the last few years has done its share in relieving this List Mail group and the sci.agriculture.beekeeping news group from thousands of repeated questions from New Bee's who are more then welcome to use it. This service is free to all and not supported by any government agency or any other individual other then myself and the little I make from what I have offered here to others does not begin to cover its costs. The cost of this has been ongoing without pause since 1990 and average about $100 per month not including my own time. UUCP connections have not gone down in cost and are getting harder to find being replaced by the Window's POP accounts which here range between $9.00-$19.00 a month unlimited time. One of the best one's right now is only $89 per year plus $20 to hook up, I apologize to all that have to pay more then they can afford as I know not all are as fortunate as we who live in California are. Maybe if more people like this poster would express to me their negative opinions on my activities at my e-mail address which is well known to anyone who needs help, I could stop this drain on my capital and need not advertise or even post anything as I do not want to displease anyone but know that anything I do post will not please all anyway. The fact is that I have over the years received hundreds of messages from posters here that do nothing but encourage me to continue with my personal efforts even though many don't agree with what I have to say but all seem to want to read it anyway, as I read all. I appreciate the support and thank all of you who have spent the time in doing so and appreciate all who have ordered bee books and bee gifts. I do get some Hate mail but it is nothing compared to the many Love letters so many of you have sent. In any case most mail readers have filters and anyone who does want to read any of my posts should learn how to use the bit bucket or delete key. As for the costs I am sorry if anyone is having a problem because of my posting to this list and I believe what information I have shared with all of you and the products I have are of interest to most beekeepers even if unsolicited and you might say its a "package deal" , no one expect's a free lunch today anyway or do they? ttul, Andy Nachbaur Systems Operator Wild Bee's Information Service At 11:16 PM 12/18/97 -0800, you wrote: >>You got to take the book, its all part of the package deal. You have my >>personal guarantee you will find someone to give the book too if you have >>one or are really not interested in Pooh. > >Blah, blah. > >Why do we have to put up with this guy's ads on the list? I have >kept my mouth shut in the past, but this really bugs me, and I >resent it. I pay for my service. So I have to pay to get his >unsolicited ads. At the very least it's rude and inappropriate. > >Susan ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 00:16:29 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Al Needham Subject: Re: NEW BEE STAMP Gee Andy, I have seen this type of posting before, but Mr Alzheimer is getting the best of me, because I thought it was all in jest on your part... :-) Anyway, it never bothered me. I think it is a very small price to pay for all the years of experience and wisdom that you have contributed to the List in the two years or so that I have been a subscriber. Merry Christmas to all ... the good, the bad, the indifferent, the happy, the sad, the grouches, the whole lot of us !! Al, ----------------------------------------------------------- <"Mailto: awneedham@juno.com" > Scituate,Massachusetts,USA The Beehive- Educational Honey Bee Site http://www.xensei.com/users/alwine/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 21:18:06 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: T & M WEATHERHEAD Subject: Tasmanian beekeepers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For Mr. Uhlman - He should be aware that our Tasmanian beekeepers are very parochial. When you are in Tasmania, make sure you go to Mole Creek and ask for Shirley but don't tell her you didn't think there were many beekeepers in Tasmania. Just ask to taste her wondeful leatherwood honey and you will make her day. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 06:35:13 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "South Alabama Beekeepers' Association Inc." Subject: Magazine Articles Can anyone remember which magazine and which issues had the articles regarding a beekeeping association establishing a bee yard as a club project? If so, please let me know. South Alabama Beekeepers' Association, Inc. P.O. Box 190595 Mobile, Alabama 36685 sabainc@juno.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 11:04:51 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: WUhlman Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: Tasmanian beekeepers Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Many thanks, Trevor, for the Tasmanian Tip. I suspect that there is a little parochialism in us all. I shall certainly look up Shirley and delight in her leatherwood---and perhaps carry some back to Seattle as well! Thanks again. I'm also going to be on the lookout in the Adelaide area when I am there for it's specialty. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 06:46:15 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Walter Patton Subject: LOVE Letter to Andy Nachbaur MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Andy hoping you have a very Happy Holiday season and Keep up your efforts. Your ads are so suttle and so bee related. I was surprised to hear some one jump Andy. Oh well we all have our bad days. Maybe she did eat her honey that day and we all know that "Honey eaters stick together longer" and to be healthy and happy one should eat their honey daily. Best of the Season to all and Aloha from Hawaii Walter Walter & Elisabeth Patton 808-964-5401 Hawaii Time ? Hale Lamalani B & B Hawiian Honey House House of Heavenly Light Beekeepers & Honeypackers Bed & Breakfast 100 % Hawaii Honey www.hawaiihoney.com hihoney@hawaiihoney.com 27-703 A. Ka`ie`ie Rd., Papa`ikou, Hawaii 96781 " The Beehive, the Fountain of Youth and Health "+ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 18:06:20 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: BEE STAMP Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi All I saw the bee stamp on the web and I would love to have one. I was wondering how I could obtain the bee stamp, perhaps through a philatelic society or maybe from one of my beekeeping colleagues in the USA. Yours sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland e mail: cssl@iol.ie ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 15:43:20 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Association creating bee yard as a project MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT The articles ran over a period of a year and a half (or so) in American Bee Journal. Installments included most activities in a bee year from initial yard set up (including bear fences), package installation, supering, harvest and marketing. Sorry, can't cite specific volumes and issues but would guess they ran from in the fall '95 through spring '97 range. Aaron Morris - thinking Yuletide in no time for flame wars! Merry Christmas, Happy Chanukah, Kool Kwanzaa, Simmerin' Solstice and Happy Festivus for the rest of us! Peace on earth and good will to all men, women, children and beekeepers! Everyone, even packers!!! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 16:25:32 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Alden P. Marshall" Subject: Re: Acarine and Oil of Wintergreen On Tue, 9 Dec 1997 23:15:35 -0600 "Excerpts from BEE-L" writes: >From: Allen Dick >To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > > >For some reason, some of our locations seem to consistently have >higher >levels of mites and others zero. > >We don't know why. Any ideas? > >Allen > >Maybe the floral sources (natural essential oils) or perhaps extra stress of micro climates? Alden Marshall B-Line Apiaries ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 16:48:14 -0500 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" Organization: Independent non-profit research Subject: Re: BEE STAMP MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Tom: Regarding the "bee stamp." Not to worry. As soon as they are on sale, I'll send you one. Would you like more than one? Merry X-mas. Sincerely. Pedro ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 16:55:53 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Verville Subject: Re: Association creating bee yard as a project MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aaron Morris wrote: > >> Happy Festivus for the rest of us! What? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 17:04:39 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Apiservices Subject: List of beekeeping Museums arround the world MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 You can find a list at : www.apiservices.com/apimondia and a lot of other things... gilles ratia webmaster@apiservices.com http://www.apiservices.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 19:13:52 -0400 Reply-To: eunice.wonnacott@pei.sympatico.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eunice Wonnacott Subject: Re: NEW BEE STAMP MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Andy Nachbaur wrote: > > Hi Roy and All, > > Best of the Season to You & Yours! > > Could anyone identify the insect and plant on this stamp for me? > > http://www.usps.gov/images/stamps/98/givnsha.jpg > > I only assumed it was a HoneyBee when I passed on the "news filler" and the > HoneyBee would be shown with some plant of importance to man, but this > looks more like some kind of "yellow jacket" and a bindweed or morning > glory plant. > > I guess this proves that postage stamp art is all in the eye (of the > beekeeper), remembering the poorly colored embossed 15 cent envelope bee on > the orange blossom of a few years ago. > > The OLd Drone still has some of these embossed stamped envelopes and would > be happy to include them in his Christmas Special: > > two (2) hand painted and crafted chain pulls > one (1) Pooh fan fold book > one (1) Embossed stamped envelope (US Government Issue) > > All for $20.00, I pay the postage USA, Canada add postage, all others > forget it unless you can afford the > postage which I am sorry it is too much, IMHO. > > E-Mail me for fastest service at: > > andy.nachbaur@calwest.net > > Andy Nachbaur (209) 826-2261, CCC (catch as catch can) > 1522 Paradise Lane > Los Banos, CA 93635 > > ttul, the OLd Drone > > At 04:56 PM 12/18/97 -0600, Roy Canaday wrote: > >Andy, Thank you for the heads up on this one. Image of the new stamp > >should be available at > > > http://www.usps.gov/images/stamps/98/givnsha.jpg > > >Happy holidays everyone. > > (c)Permission is given to copy this document > in any form, or to print for any use. > > (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! IMHO -- not a wasp-- --this insect on the stamp does not have the needle like portion between thorax and abdomen, so typical of wasps. But not photographic either !!! ` Eunice ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 20:21:55 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tgf28 Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: NEW BEE STAMP Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 97-12-19 10:43:05 EST, you write: << NEW HONEYBEE STAMP Today's Papers From Slate Magazine (http://www.slate.com) The WSJ (Wall Stree Journal) reports that the U.S. Postal Service plans to issue a philanthropy stamp next year that will depict a bee pollinating a flower and will bear the words: "Giving and Sharing: an American Tradition." ... >> Am I a cynic or what? I don't think that the guv'ment boys know that the bee is there to take, and is only incidentally performing a service. However, if we do the same when we "take", there will be a lot of beneficiaries. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 22:08:25 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: George C Walker III Subject: POISON HONEY Garth's post concerning poison honey was of interest to this Texas Beekeeper. He mention a honey from "milkboom" that tasted fine but later burned the throat. We have a plant here know as "snow on the mountain," aka, milkweed (for it's milky sap), that is water white, no flavor, but burns the throat for up to thirty minutes with just a 1/2 teaspoon or so ingested. Luckily, it is a fall plant and we are through extracting when it is produced (September) and thus leave it on for winter stores. Question: What is the link between Garth's (South African) "milk" plants and these? if any. Clint Walker III Walker Apiaries Walker Honey Company PO BOX 615 ROGERS TEXAS 76569 254.983.BEES WALKER_HONEYBEES@JUNO.COM Package Bees, Italian Queens, Varietal Honeys, Beeswax ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 22:25:14 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robert Barnett Subject: Re: Magazine Articles Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Look in Bee Culture, November 1997, page 46-68; _Our Bee Club LEARNING AND WORKING TOGETHER_ By Don Jackson Robert Barnett, Birmingham, Al ---------- > From: "South Alabama Beekeepers' Association Inc." > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Magazine Articles > Date: Fri, 19 Dec 97 12:35:13 +0000 > >Can anyone remember which magazine and which issues had the articles >regarding a beekeeping association establishing a bee yard as a club >project? If so, please let me know. > >South Alabama Beekeepers' Association, Inc. >P.O. Box 190595 >Mobile, Alabama 36685 >sabainc@juno.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 22:52:08 -0800 Reply-To: salbritt@iamerica.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Steven Albritton Subject: Merry Christmas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Walter Patton wrote: > > Andy hoping you have a very Happy Holiday season and Keep up your efforts. > Your ads are so suttle and so bee related. I was surprised to hear some one > jump Andy. Oh well we all have our bad days. Maybe she did eat her honey > that day and we all know that "Honey eaters stick together longer" and to > be healthy and happy one should eat their honey daily. > > Best of the Season to all and Aloha from Hawaii > Walter > > Walter & Elisabeth Patton 808-964-5401 Hawaii Time ? Merry Christmas to all who read the list. I have enjoyed the jokes and information I have received from reading your posts. I hope everyone gets thru the winter strongly. Peace and joy to you and all your's. Happy Holidays and Merry Christmas. May god bless everything you do. Steven Albritton Chauvin Honey Farms Monroe, La ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 14:39:35 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: natural TM resistance Hi All Some really interesting posts about trracheal mite resistance in bees. Vince had some particularily interesting news about the natural selection of bees with resistance. No this raises a question in my mind. If we consider the North American bee population to be really inbred, with the majority of the bees coming from a few production regions, and natural swarms being just about gone then there are some big problems. A hive is a single reproductive unit, capable of giving out not more than 22 or so sets of genes in some or other order. The chances are that anyy drones that are infected with TM are not going 'too be much good in the air' and will not satisfy prospective queens, so we can cut out a chunk of the potential gene pool of each hive, as that whhich will be naturally selected out. Now we will also loose a lot of queen line genetic inforrmation from hives where the queen line was not much good and did not get out and about enough. So the result is that, through naturral selection for TM resistance one gets a hell of a bottleneck in the amount of variability for other traits in the natural environment. SO yyes one may get TM resistance, but what resistance does one loose to other things in the proccess? Have any of the beekeepers with such problems noticed less vibrant colonies? Just a thought Keep well Garth --- Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Apis melifera capensis Grahamstown 800mm annual precipitation 6139 Eastern Cape South Africa Phone 27-0461-311663 On holiday for a few months Rhodes University Which means: working with bees 15 hours a day! Interests: Fliis and bees Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this post in no way reflect those of Rhodes University. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 15:01:58 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: Poison Honey Hi All and Clint Thanks Clint for the replyy about the milkweed. Sounds like you have a euphorbea prroblem there. The euphorbiacea are a huge genus, that dates from pre pangaea/gondwanaland breakup so theyy are spread all over. I remeber seeing a TV program about an oil from euphorb program being set up in Arizona - the latex makes a good oil. The pictures of the plants being farmed looked just like the ones we have here in valley bushveld. I also remeber hearing about a euphorb that was invading the canadian plains as well. Just out of interest - has anybody polinated Jojoba plants? We have some farmers around here that produce the stuff and I know that we import quite a bit from I think Arizona and Calif? Is it a good honey if it is at all? I know a local expert on euphorbs so will ask him what the common species are in ariz, texas, calif are? Also, in that regard do bees polinate peyote cactus? Keep well Garth --- Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Apis melifera capensis Grahamstown 800mm annual precipitation 6139 Eastern Cape South Africa Phone 27-0461-311663 On holiday for a few months Rhodes University Which means: working with bees 15 hours a day! Interests: Fliis and bees Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this post in no way reflect those of Rhodes University. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 08:46:43 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Paul Bashore Subject: Re: BEE STAMP In-Reply-To: <199712191806.SAA12315@mail.iol.ie> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 06:06 PM 12/19/97 GMT, you wrote: >Hi All > >I saw the bee stamp on the web and I would love to have one. I was wondering >how I could obtain the bee stamp, perhaps through a philatelic society or >maybe from one of my beekeeping colleagues in the USA. > >Yours sincerely > >Tom Barrett >49 South Park >Foxrock >Dublin 18 >Ireland > >e mail: cssl@iol.ie Tom I would happy to send you one when I get some. Paul Bashore in Okla 15 hives ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 12:15:20 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "South Alabama Beekeepers' Association Inc." Subject: Festivus As we gather around the Festivus Pole I'll be thinkng of Aaron and his family. Happy Festivus Aaron Ben Davis ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 14:54:28 -0400 Reply-To: eunice.wonnacott@pei.sympatico.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eunice Wonnacott Subject: Re: Merry Christmas Comments: To: salbritt@iamerica.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Steven Albritton wrote: > > Walter Patton wrote: > > > > Andy hoping you have a very Happy Holiday season and Keep up your efforts. > > Your ads are so suttle and so bee related. I was surprised to hear some one > > jump Andy. Oh well we all have our bad days. Maybe she did eat her honey > > that day and we all know that "Honey eaters stick together longer" and to > > be healthy and happy one should eat their honey daily. > > > > Best of the Season to all and Aloha from Hawaii > > Walter > > > > Walter & Elisabeth Patton 808-964-5401 Hawaii Time ? > Merry Christmas to all who read the list. I have enjoyed the jokes and > information I have received from reading your posts. I hope everyone > gets thru the winter strongly. Peace and joy to you and all your's. > > Happy Holidays and Merry Christmas. May god bless everything you do. > > Steven Albritton > Chauvin Honey Farms > Monroe, La A Very Merry Christmas to all on the LIST from Prince Edward Island, Canada's Smallest Province. I always enjoy the ideas on this list, and especially affirm the friendly atmosphere that goes with beekeeping and beekeepers. (Have you ever noticed how much a room full of beekeepers resembles a hive full of workers ??) My best to you all, Eunice From The Cradle of Confederation ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 14:49:50 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Gregory P. Carrier" Subject: Re: POISON HONEY MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Both snow-on-the-prairie and snow-on-the-mountain are in the Euphorbiaceae family, not true milkweeds (Aesclepiadacea) though their sap runs white. Before anyone decides that all Euphorbiaceae honey should be avoided, you might note that the Chinese Tallow tree (Sapium sebiferum) is also in this family. Also bull nettle and candelilla (I know nothing of their honey value) - has anyone compiled a list of "bad honey plants?" -Greg (Houston, TX) > We have a plant here know as "snow on the mountain," > aka, milkweed (for it's milky sap), that is water white, no flavor, but > burns the throat for up to thirty minutes with just a 1/2 teaspoon or so > ingested. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 16:16:22 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ivan McGill Subject: Re: Magazine Articles Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Also in American Bee Journal, March, 1997. Bee Association Project XIII Charting the Course, page 205. There is reference to co-op breeding work in Steve Taber's Column, May 1997, page 362. Merry Christmas & Prosperous New Year to everyone on the list Ivan McGill Prince George, B.C. Canada > Look in Bee Culture, November 1997, page 46-68; _Our Bee Club LEARNING >AND WORKING TOGETHER_ By Don Jackson > >Robert Barnett, Birmingham, Al >---------- >> From: "South Alabama Beekeepers' Association Inc." >> To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU >> Subject: Magazine Articles >> Date: Fri, 19 Dec 97 12:35:13 +0000 >> >>Can anyone remember which magazine and which issues had the articles >>regarding a beekeeping association establishing a bee yard as a club >>project? If so, please let me know. >> >>South Alabama Beekeepers' Association, Inc. >>P.O. Box 190595 >>Mobile, Alabama 36685 >>sabainc@juno.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 17:24:13 -0500 Reply-To: SNewc0076@aol.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Steve Newcomb Subject: Re: NEW BEE STAMP MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Andy, I for one do not mind you advertising a little product here once in a while. I sure is one heck of a lot less intrusive than all of the ads that take forever to download on commercial websites. I'm a newbee, and have learned a lot from your contributions to Bee-L. Keep up the good work. Merry Christmas Steve Newcomb ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 19:47:23 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Edd Chamberlin Subject: Re: Blah, blah Oh take a MIDOL susan, you probably won't like this either but what the hay... For the friends of Dr. Keith Delaplane; You guys may like to know that he is a new daddy now. He has a birth announcement on http://www.hom.net/~beeman Edd ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 08:59:09 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Al Needham Subject: Re: Blah, blah On Sat, 20 Dec 1997 19:47:23 -0500 Edd Chamberlin writes: >For the friends of Dr. Keith Delaplane; You guys may like to know that >he is a new daddy now. He has a birth announcement on >http://www.hom.net/~beeman Oh Edd: We beekeeper's are used to thousands of births a day ... :-) Glad you made the announcement-got a birth and a bee site to check out out of the deal ! Al, ----------------------------------------------------------- <"Mailto: awneedham@juno.com" > Scituate,Massachusetts,USA The Beehive- Educational Honey Bee Site http://www.xensei.com/users/alwine/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 18:47:57 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Gary B. Swift" Organization: Ambiance Engineering Subject: Poisonous? Hallucinogenic? Illegal? Honey... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Garth wrote: > > Also, in that regard do bees polinate peyote cactus? 12/20/97 Hey, good question, Garth! And do bees pollinate cannabis?, and opium poppies?, and coca plants? and jimson weed? etc., etc. If so, would this honey be hallucinogenic (and illegal) as well as poisonous??? Seems like we would have heard of it by now... Maybe the bees avoid these plants, or else convert any active substances into harmless ones. =gary= ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 23:19:10 -0800 Reply-To: vcoppola@epix.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Re: natural TM resistance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Garth wrote: > No this raises a question in my mind. If we consider the North > American bee population to be really inbred, with the majority of the > bees coming from a few production..... > So the result is that, through naturral selection for TM resistance > one gets a hell of a bottleneck in the amount of variability for > other traits in the natural environment. I doubt this that big a problem. The North American gene pool is very large and diverse. The "few production areas" are really quite large and contain many lines. T-mite resistance can be found in practically any line so the "survivors" are not necessarily all from the same line. The loss of other beneficial traits when selecting for t mite can be easily avoided by preselecting canidates for your favorite other chacteristics. For example, when we selected canidates for quick test we chose colonies that were gentle, very productive, and wintered very well. These characteristics were known to be favorable for 2 or 3 years prior to quick test. This gives us a better chance of finding a good breeder and results in less wasted time and expense. Notice that the 2 or 3 years of monitoring are not adequate to pick breeders. This really surprised me in the 1st quick test. I thought all my canidates would do well but only 1 of 4 did. I learned that my "seat of the pants" observations were hardly adaquate for picking breeders when t mite resistance is the goal. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 23:05:06 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Peter Amschel Subject: Re: natural TM resistance In-Reply-To: <04432131210093@systronix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT The bees can't get rid of the mites because the bees are all artificially separated off from one another in millions of Langstroth frames. The space between the frames does not allow enough room for the bees to work together and interact shoulder to shoulder en masse throughout the hive. The bees can't even properly ball up for winter because they are prevented from doing so by the faux spaces in these nazi Langstroth frames. If the bees are in non-Langstroth hives, they can begin to dominate the mites as they can easily pick these mites off one another. Bees are one organism, world wide, like a gigantic aspen grove and we have to liberate them from these Langstroth prisons. Just as fleas would proliferate on monkeys if the monkeys were artificially separated from one another so that when they want to visit and interact with one another they have to burrow through an artificial wall or go all the way down and around one or more maze-like artificial walls the mites are getting the upper hand (prendre le dessus). ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 08:48:55 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Pollinator Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: natural TM resistance Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 97-12-21 02:05:35 EST, amschelp@pe.net (Peter Amschel) writes: <> (snip) << Just as fleas would proliferate on monkeys if the monkeys were artificially separated from one another so that when they want to visit and interact with one another they have to burrow through an artificial wall or go all the way down and around one or more maze-like artificial walls the mites are getting the upper hand >> Ummm, Peter, you haven't looked at the comb in MY hives lately, have you? Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 17:46:42 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Murray McGregor Subject: Re: natural TM resistance In-Reply-To: <199712210704.XAA05708@smtp.pe.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 In article <199712210704.XAA05708@smtp.pe.net>, Peter Amschel writes >The bees can't get rid of the mites because the bees are all >artificially separated off from one another in millions of Langstroth >frames. The space between the frames does not allow enough room for >the bees to work together and interact shoulder to shoulder en masse >throughout the hive. The bees can't even properly ball up for winter >because they are prevented from doing so by the faux spaces in >these nazi Langstroth frames. If the bees are in non-Langstroth >hives, they can begin to dominate the mites as they can easily pick >these mites off one another. Bees are one organism, world wide, like >a gigantic aspen grove and we have to liberate them from these >Langstroth prisons. Just as fleas would proliferate on monkeys if the >monkeys were artificially separated from one another so that when >they want to visit and interact with one another they have to burrow >through an artificial wall or go all the way down and around one or >more maze-like artificial walls the mites are getting the upper hand >(prendre le dessus). Dear Peter, I cannot quite understand what you are getting at here. These mites occur in all of our colonies, whether Langstroth or not. The bee space provided in these hive types varies a little, but there is no difference in their being affected by mites. I can only think of solid plastic combs that might give you any kind of isolation difficulty, because, in our experience they chew communication holes through the combs (normally at bottom corners but also often in other parts of the comb). In feral colonies the bee space between the faces of the combs is no larger than in a standard Langstroth. That is the way the bees build it, so it must be the way they want it. Remember, these hives were designed based on natures model, not imposing a new completely alien regime on the bees. Feral colonies are just as likely to be infested with tracheal mites as managed colonies. We sometimes have to remove feral colonies for various reasons, usually from roof spaces when building work needs to be done, and in certain circumstances the combs they draw make langstroth frames look tiny. We took a colony out of a sloping roof one time which had a series of continuous combs occupying one rafter space. This space was about 20 feet long by 20 inches wide by about 8 inches deep, lying at an angle about 40 degrees to the horizontal. The longest combs were the middle ones, all were worker except one which was all drone, and they ran the full 20 feet of the space with nice regular spacing. The outer combs were a more disjointed bunch. Even this spring past we undertook the disposal of the equipment of a beekeeping friend of ours who had died, and came across a colony which had been a swarm and had occupied a stack of his empty boxes piled up outside (no frames, just empty supers). We had to cut this colony out just to be able to remove it from where it was sitting, and removed several huge combs of over 5 feet (1.5 metres in length, occupying the full width of the empty hives. Again the comb spacing was very similar to what we normally use, and they had very few communication holes. Therefore just from our own observation we cannot see that your assertion is valid, as the environment we provide for the bees is not all that different from what they themselves will construct in nature. Murray -- Murray McGregor ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 13:02:31 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Walt Barricklow Subject: Re: Blah, blah MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That bee of Dr. Keiths looks better than the one thats gonna bee on the stamp, and he probly didnt even try hard. Andy, you sure don"t have a way with women. HOPE EACH AND EVERYONE OF YOU HAS THE HAPPIEST OF HOLIDAY SEASONS ---------- > From: Edd Chamberlin > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Re: Blah, blah > Date: Saturday, December 20, 1997 7:47 PM > > Oh take a MIDOL susan, you probably won't like this either but what the > hay... > > For the friends of Dr. Keith Delaplane; You guys may like to know that he > is a new daddy now. He has a birth announcement on > http://www.hom.net/~beeman > > Edd ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 15:14:38 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Pollinator Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: Tracheal Mites Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit From: vcoppola@epix.net (Vince Coppola): <> One beekeeper put it succinctly, Vince: "Breeding from live bees is a form of natural selection." Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 15:20:06 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." Subject: Bees and Avocado Pollination Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi, I might have already asked this question to the list before but need some input at this time.... I have been approached by several avocado growers to put bees in their orchards next spring. Is there any research on bees being necessary for avocado pollination? I understand avocados produce Type A and Type B flowers and wonder how bees can help fertilize flowers that open at different times of the day? Paul Cronshaw, D.C. Cyberchiro and Hobbyist Beekeeper Santa Barbara, CA USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 23:52:30 +1300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Organization: Bay of Plenty Polytechnic Subject: Re: Bees and Avocado Pollination MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Is there any research on bees being necessary for avocado pollination? Once some years ago I did a talk on "The Sex Life of the Avocado". I still remember the opening line: "Avocados exhibit a protogynous dicogamy with syncronous daily compementarity". Blank expressions... And then went on to put it into 'normal' words... Protogynous - the female flower comes out first Dicogamy - each tree produces both male and female flowers Synchronous - the male/female flowers open at the same time each day Complementarity - when one type of tree has the male flowers open, the other type has the female flowers, and vice versa... So yes, there are Type A and Type B avocado trees. And best pollination occurs when you have a mix of the two. But it isn't an absolute hard and fast rule, at least here in NZ where the evenings are a bit cooler than in Calif where the orginal research was done - that cooler evenings breaks the absolute open/closed cycle somewhat, which means we still get fruit even if there isn't a tree of the other type nearby. (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- home nickw@beekeeping.co.nz (/ work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz NZ Beekeeping http://www.beekeeping.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 17:30:22 -0500 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" Organization: Independent non-profit research Subject: Re: natural TM resistance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all. Happy holidays to all. Two brief points. 1. I agree wholeheartedly with Murray. His statement does not need comments. 2. I think that some of the contributors to this thread are/have missed Garth point regarding genetic material exchange (or lack of it) by affected drones. Extending this thought a little further affected queens will have a rough time getting up into the drone pools which should make them available to affected drones. The importance of this point is that being that there is such a large population of drones in our bee yards and hence in the drone pools, the old reliable law of survival of the fittest should prevail. Only the drones whose respiratory ability is not affected will mate with the queen be they in drone pools or outside of the drone pools. Food for thought when talking about acquired hereditary traits in open spaces. If we are talking about Artificial Insemination, then that is an entirely different ball park because "factors" are controllable. Best regards. Happy Holidays to all. Dr. Rodriguez Virginia Beach, VA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 17:54:49 -0500 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" Organization: Independent non-profit research Subject: [Fwd: natural TM resistance] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------88510B39B122AC4490AEF3FF" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------88510B39B122AC4490AEF3FF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------88510B39B122AC4490AEF3FF Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-ID: <349D9DAD.86A54A44@norfolk.infi.net> Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 17:52:29 -0500 From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Organization: Independent non-profit research X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vcoppola@epix.net Subject: Re: natural TM resistance References: <157A056550A@warthog.ru.ac.za> <349CC2EE.5C35E9FB@epix.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all. Before the "start" surfing, please allow me to apologize for misquoting Murray for Vince. I meant to quote and reply to Vince's post. Best regasrds. Dr. R. --------------88510B39B122AC4490AEF3FF-- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 23:28:35 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Tracheal mites and Langstroth Hives Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi All An interesting observation was made linking mites with Langstroth hives. In this neck of the woods, few Lansgtroth hives are in use, we use mainly British Nationals and British Commercials. I am only a short time in beekeeping, but I did believe that all moveable frame hives were built to the same design, discovered by Rev Langstroth in the USA in 1851 (long before the nazis were even heard of!), and that the only differences between one make of hive and another were the actual dimensions. The concept of 'bee space' discovered by Rev Langstroth, is observed in all of these hives. Can someone please straighten me out if I am wrong? Yours sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland e mail: cssl@iol.ie ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 16:12:23 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: Bees and Avocado Pollination In-Reply-To: <97Dec22.120631nzdt.34562@gateway.boppoly.ac.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:52 PM 12/22/97 +1300, you wrote: >> Is there any research on bees being necessary for avocado pollination? Hi Nick, Nick said> >Once some years ago I did a talk on "The Sex Life of the Avocado". I >still remember the opening line: "Avocados exhibit a protogynous >dicogamy with syncronous daily compementarity". Blank expressions... Do honeybee's play any part in that "sex life" in your area? Do beekeepers your area seek out growers to place bees in their groves or is it the other way around? Is the honey produced black tar colored, or is any produced? Beekeepers in California place bees in Avocado groves mostly in search of other bee pasture that may be in the same area such as Citrus or Sage. Avocado's can be grown from the San Diego to Santa Cruz on the coast but most commercial groves are south of LA on the coast and in the Central Valley south of Fresno. They grow just about any place that citrus can be grown. ttul, Andy- -- Cross river *THEN* insult alligator. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 02:52:00 +1300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Organization: Bay of Plenty Polytechnic Subject: Re: Bees and Avocado Pollination MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Do honeybee's play any part in that "sex life" in your area? > > Do beekeepers your area seek out growers to place bees in their groves or > is it the other way around? For the most part it is the latter - growers will pay to have bees brought into the groves for pollination. The polln fees are not so high as for kiwifruit, which flowers shortly afterward, but still very welcome to many. The most audacious of polln bkprs place hives into avocados with the hopes that the flowering will be over soon enough to place the same units into kiwifruit. Lots of worry, as you're pretty much hoping one flowering will be early and one late... But the hives at least come out of avocados in good condition, so it can be done in some seasons. I haven't tasted any select source honey here, but I have tasted Californian avocado honey. Let me be polite and say it isn't one of my favourites. I expect ours is equally 'pleasant'... (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- home nickw@beekeeping.co.nz (/ work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz NZ Beekeeping http://www.beekeeping.co.nz