=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 22 Dec 1997 00:51:34 -0500
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Dave from Scranton <ddc1@www.scranton.com>
Subject:      Make Honey Fast!
In-Reply-To:  <97Dec22.150552nzdt.34562@gateway.boppoly.ac.nz>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
 
        Ok, OK, so I'm yanking your chain, but I'M DESPERATE!!!
 
<grovel>
 
        In an old bee magazine (almost 100% positive it was _bee culture_)
there was a receipe for Sesame Seed Cookies. They are absolutely
wonderful, But I can't find the old magazine with the receipe in it. I
wrote to BC, but I'm sure they've got more important things to do rather
than help me get fatter...I've had the seeds in the freezer for almost a
year now (major mealy moth problems in the kitchen)and I'm really jonesing
for the cookies. Can anyone PLEASE HELP!?!? PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE!!!
 
</grovel>
 
******************************************************************************
Dave D. Cawley, Maitre d' |
The Internet Cafe         |
Scranton, Pennsylvania    |
(717) 344-1969            |
dave@scranton.com         |
******************************************************************************
                    URL => http://www.scranton.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 22 Dec 1997 08:12:31 +0000
Reply-To:     dave@pix.za
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Dave Du Toit <dave@pix.za>
Organization: PiX PoP Tzaneen
Subject:      Re: Bees and Avocado Pollination
In-Reply-To:  <v0310280fb0c201ff6b43@[207.71.218.90]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
 
Hi
 
It is one of my major crops that I pollinate and bees are definitely
essential .
Here is a good reference:  http://users.aol.com/pollinator/mcg_avoc.txt
 
 
 
 
Dave Du Toit
Amrit Apiaries
Tzaneen South Africa
dave@pix.za
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 21 Dec 1997 22:37:30 -0800
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Andy Nachbaur <andy.nachbaur@calwest.net>
Subject:      Sesame Candy
In-Reply-To:  <Pine.LNX.3.93.971222004453.21386A-100000@www.scranton.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=====================_882801450==_"
 
--=====================_882801450==_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
 
Hi Dave,
 
This is the one I like, just honey, sesame seeds, and peanut oil.  It's not
a cookie but it works for me.
 
ttul,  Andy
 
At 12:51 AM 12/22/97 -0500, Dave from Scranton wrote:
>        Ok, OK, so I'm yanking your chain, but I'M DESPERATE!!!
 
><grovel>
>
>        In an old bee magazine (almost 100% positive it was _bee culture_)
>there was a receipe for Sesame Seed Cookies. They are absolutely
>wonderful, But I can't find the old magazine with the receipe in it. I
>wrote to BC, but I'm sure they've got more important things to do rather
>than help me get fatter...I've had the seeds in the freezer for almost a
>year now (major mealy moth problems in the kitchen)and I'm really jonesing
>for the cookies. Can anyone PLEASE HELP!?!? PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE!!!
 
 
--=====================_882801450==_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
 
 
 
Sesame Candy
 
 
 
 
     _________________________________________________________________
 
          3 cups honey
          2 cups sesame seeds
          peanut oil
 
 
 
   In a deep, medium-size saucepan slowly heat honey over medium-low
   heat, using a heat diffuser, to the hard-crack stage (about 305 to 310
   degrees on a candy thermometer). Stir down often to prevent boiling
   over, about 45 minutes. Stir in sesame seeds. Set aside for a few
   minutes to cool slightly.
 
   Lightly grease a 9x13-inch baking sheet with peanut oil. Do not use
   waxed paper. Pour honey mixture onto it. Set baking sheet on a cooling
   rack. When cooled, but not hard, score into diamond shapes. When
   cooled completely, remove candy and separate into pieces.
 
   WARNING: Be sure to alert friends and family to the danger of burning
   themselves on the extremely hot carmelized sugar.
 
   From The Frugal Gourmet
 
   RETURN TO MIDDLE EASTERN RECIPE INDEX
     _________________________________________________________________
 
 
   Back to Islamic Gateway Home Page
 
 
     _________________________________________________________________
 
   1995 Christina Al-Sudairy, U.S.A. Your input is welcome via email.
 
 
--=====================_882801450==_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
 
 
--
Cross river *THEN* insult alligator.
 
 
 
--=====================_882801450==_--
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 22 Dec 1997 19:51:40 +1000
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         j h & e mcadam <hogbay@kin.on.net>
Subject:      Re: Poisonous? Hallucinogenic? Illegal? Honey...
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
 
>
>Hey, good question, Garth!  And do bees pollinate cannabis?, and opium
>poppies?, and coca plants? and jimson weed? etc., etc.
>
>If so, would this honey be hallucinogenic (and illegal) as well as
>poisonous???  Seems like we would have heard of it by now...  Maybe the
>bees avoid these plants, or else convert any active substances into
>harmless ones.
 
As far as cannabis is concerned, bees apparently work the blossoms for
pollen but it is not a strong source.  Cannabis of course was grown for use
for fabric manufacture and was commonly used for hard-wearing clothes such
as jeans.   A form of cannabis without the drug ingredient is being trialled
and promises to be a valuable source of fibre for paper and material, but
unfortunately irrelevant for bees.
 
Betty McAdam
HOG BAY APIARY
Penneshaw, Kangaroo Island
j.h. & e. mcadam<hogbay@kin.on.net
http://kigateway.eastend.com.au/hogbay/hogbay1.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 22 Dec 1997 11:42:55 GMT+0200
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Garth <g95c6713@warthog.ru.ac.za>
Organization: Rhodes University South Africa
Subject:      Poisonous? Hallucinogenic? Illegal? Honey...
In-Reply-To:  <E0xjdSS-0005Ij-00@buffalo.ru.ac.za>
 
Gary B. Swift" <gbswift@TELIS.ORG> wote:
 
> Subject: Poisonous? Hallucinogenic? Illegal? Honey...
>
> Hey, good question!  And do bees pollinate cannabis?, and opium
> poppies?, and coca plants? and jimson weed? etc., etc.
>
> If so, would this honey be hallucinogenic (and illegal) as well as
> poisonous???  Seems like we would have heard of it by now...  Maybe the
> bees avoid these plants, or else convert any active substances into
> harmless ones.
 
I actually also wonder about the propolis - Prof Stanfords recent
apis mentioned commercial production of propolis for use as a
pharmaceutical product, to be consumer among other things.
 
Now, south africa being a bit of a cannabis problem zone, as well as
the sort of country that could produce lots of propolis could have
some interesting effects.
 
I have seen both bees collecting resin and cannabis plants, and don't
see why they would not collect resin of the cannabis head - this
would mean one could get bees producing hash propolis that would be
sold - cannabinols are alcohol soluble - so some people would cure
their arthritis or forget they had it!!!
 
Onn that line, it seems that bees would also use opium resins quite
effectively as a propolis constituent?? Anybody out there that uses
propolis felt the urge to write Khubla Khan style verses afterwards?
 
Just a thought!
 
Keep well and happy festive seasons to all (where applicable) and new
years to all (where applicable).
 
Garth
 
---
Garth Cambray       Camdini Apiaries
15 Park Road        Apis melifera capensis
Grahamstown         800mm annual precipitation
6139
Eastern Cape
South Africa               Phone 27-0461-311663
 
On holiday for a few months     Rhodes University
Which means: working with bees 15 hours a day!
Interests: Fliis and bees
Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this post in no way
reflect those of Rhodes University.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 22 Dec 1997 09:42:40 +0000
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Max Westby <M.Westby@sheffield.ac.uk>
Subject:      THAT BEE STAMP
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
 
Dear All
 
Giving and Sharing - an American tradition? Over to Kyoto for a comment ....
 
Seasonal Greetings to all and let's try and get our governments, as well as
us as individuals, to do a bit more of it at a global level.
 
Max
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 22 Dec 1997 06:06:03 -0500
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Walt Barricklow <pondsite@barnwellsc.com>
Subject:      splitting a three level hive
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
 
I need some help on this one.  Last fall I put on an additional deep hive
body, to reduce the chance of
swarming. It is my understanding that through the winter, bees will move up
in the hive. So far winter
here is low 40s to 50s in the south.  I want to take out one of the deep
supers, and thought that the best
one would be the bottom, as the bees will mostly bee in the top two deep
supers by late January. I do
not want to split the hive or requeen, just get the bees ready for spring
in two deep  supers. I thought
early in the morning when temps are lower might work.  Ive never tried this
before, so any help will be
greatly appreciated.  tnx walt
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 21 Dec 1997 16:18:55 +0200
Reply-To:     jtemp@xs4all.nl
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Jan Tempelman <jtemp@xs4all.nl>
Organization: Home
Subject:      Re: Poisonous? Hallucinogenic? Illegal? Honey...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854";
              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
 
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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 22 Dec 1997 09:24:19 +0000
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Richard Bonney <rebonney@javanet.com>
Subject:      Re: Sesame seed cookie recip
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
 
For the last five years or so the annual index in Bee Culture, published
in the December issue, has listed the individual recipes.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 21 Dec 1997 21:48:30 -0400
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         "Peter W. Plumley" <pplumley@syr.edu>
Subject:      Re: splitting a three level hive
In-Reply-To:  <19971222110815765.AAA2102@DEFAULT.barnwellsc.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
 
Walt:
 
        I combined a number of weak hives this September and created some
triple deckers.  When taking the Apistan Strips off at the end of October,
I reduced then to two brood supers. In some hives, the bees had centered in
the lower brood super, and in others the top super.  And in all cases, one
super was always devoid of bees - and nearly of honey storage too.
        Therefore, I suggest you simply open them up and find where they
are centering/clustering - and remove the deep super that has the fewer
number, which could be the bottom or top.
        I would also pick the warmest day you can - so if they do fly
they'll have a chance of making it back inside.
 
PWP
 
Plumley Farms - LaFayette, New York
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 22 Dec 1997 17:03:27 +0200
Reply-To:     pimapis@rls.roknet.ro
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Marian Pintilie <pimapis@rls.roknet.ro>
Organization: -
Subject:      Re: Bees and Avocado Pollination
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
 
Hi Andy
 
Andy Nachbaur wrote:
> --
> Cross river *THEN* insult alligator.
 
What if you'll need to cross the river back ? :)
 
Costel
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 22 Dec 1997 12:39:32 -0500
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Walt Barricklow <pondsite@barnwellsc.com>
Subject:      Re: Alligators
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
 
Then perhaps I would get aligator shoes and luggage for the trip. walt
 
----------
> From: Excerpts from BEE-L <bees@systronix.net>
> To: Bestofbee@systronix.net
> Subject: Alligators
> Date: Monday, December 22, 1997 10:35 AM
>
> ------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
> Date:          Mon, 22 Dec 1997 17:03:27 +0200
> Reply-to:      pimapis@rls.roknet.ro
> From:          Marian Pintilie <pimapis@rls.roknet.ro>
> Organization:  -
> Subject:       Re: Bees and Avocado Pollination
> To:            BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU
>
> Hi Andy
>
> Andy Nachbaur wrote:
> > --
> > Cross river *THEN* insult alligator.
>
> What if you'll need to cross the river back ? :)
>
> Costel
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 22 Dec 1997 12:42:39 -0500
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Walt Barricklow <pondsite@barnwellsc.com>
Subject:      Re: splitting a three level hive
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
 
should I try this without smoke, or lite smoke?
 
----------
> From: Peter W. Plumley <pplumley@syr.edu>
> To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU
> Subject: Re: splitting a three level hive
> Date: Sunday, December 21, 1997 8:48 PM
>
> Walt:
>
>         I combined a number of weak hives this September and created some
> triple deckers.  When taking the Apistan Strips off at the end of
October,
> I reduced then to two brood supers. In some hives, the bees had centered
in
> the lower brood super, and in others the top super.  And in all cases,
one
> super was always devoid of bees - and nearly of honey storage too.
>         Therefore, I suggest you simply open them up and find where they
> are centering/clustering - and remove the deep super that has the fewer
> number, which could be the bottom or top.
>         I would also pick the warmest day you can - so if they do fly
> they'll have a chance of making it back inside.
>
> PWP
>
> Plumley Farms - LaFayette, New York
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 22 Dec 1997 12:55:20 -0600
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Jerry Scott <jscott2@Tandy.com>
Subject:      Starter Help
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
 
Hi,
        I'm not only new to this list, but I'm new to beekeeping.  I've
had the interest for some time now and am tired of just reading about
it.  I, therefore hope to start with a couple of hives this coming
Spring.
        I live in Lipan, Texas - which is just west of Fort Worth,
Texas.  I am hoping to make contact someone that lives in this area to
help GUIDE me in starting the hives so I don't start off by murdering
them.
        I have bought most of the supplies (I think - brood boxes,
supers, frames, queen excluder, covers, smoker, bee suit, hive tool) for
two hives (two catalog starter kits).  Only lacking the starter
foundation, and bee's, which I understand shouldn't be ordered until
Spring.
        I and my wife have done a lot of reading about beekeeping.  But,
we some how feel that beside making it all seem very complex, all the
reading won't be enough.  That's why I'm hoping to find a guide to help
start things right.  Also, so I don't pester this list with a bunch of
newbie dumb questions, that may seem important to me.  Like: I was
thinking of starting with the Buckfast Queen from B. Weaver Apiaries.
Only because their write up states they are gentle and easy keeping
bee's good for the novice beekeeper.  Is this an OK choice or should we
do something different?
 
Thanks
 
Jerry Scott
jscott2@tandy.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 22 Dec 1997 17:19:34 -0600
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Martin Braunstein <malka@webnet.com.ar>
Subject:      Re: natural TM resistance
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
Hi Peter,
 
Needless to say you hate Langstroth frames. But what alternative do you
propose?
Getting back to skeps?... Keeping hives in hollow trunks?=20
 
By the way, what makes you think a frame can be considered nazi?=20
 
Regards.
 
Martin Braunstein
Malka Cabania Apicola
e-mail: malka@webnet.com.ar
 
 
----------
> From: Peter Amschel <amschelp@pe.net>
> To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU
> Subject: Re: natural TM resistance
> Date: s=E1bado 20 de diciembre de 1997 17:05
>=20
> The bees can't get rid of the mites because the bees are all
> artificially separated off from one another in millions of Langstroth
> frames. The space between the frames does not allow enough room for
> the bees to work together and interact shoulder to shoulder en masse
> throughout the hive. The bees can't even properly ball up for winter
> because they are prevented from doing so by the faux spaces in
> these nazi Langstroth frames. If the bees are in non-Langstroth
> hives, they can begin to dominate the mites as they can  easily pick
> these mites off one another. Bees are one organism, world wide, like
> a gigantic aspen grove and we have to liberate them from these
> Langstroth prisons. Just as fleas would proliferate on monkeys if the
> monkeys were artificially separated from one another so that when
> they want to visit and interact with one another they  have to burrow
> through an artificial wall or go all the way down and around one or
> more maze-like artificial walls the mites are getting the upper hand
> (prendre le dessus).
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 22 Dec 1997 10:54:25 -0500
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Lloyd Spear <lloydspear@EMAIL.MSN.COM>
Subject:      Re: splitting a three level hive
 
Be carefull, the bees might not be solely in the top two hive bodies.  Your
best bet is to briefly and carefully examine them when you get a day when
the bees are flying.  What you are trying to do is determine where the brood
is.  It is likely to be in two bodies, but the two bodies might be either
the top two or the bottom two.
Take the top off the hive and see where the bees are clustered.  Take a
frame out and see if there is brood.  If there is not, examine another
frame.  If you don't see brood in the top body, after examining at least two
frames with a good number bees on them, take the top body off.  Set it aside
as close as possible to the remaining two bodies so that the bees (or most
of them) will go into the remaining two bodies.  After a week examine the
hive you took off, if there are eggs or very young larve, you took the
queen!  Hopefully, that won't be the case.  If you do see eggs and young
larve put at least one of the remaining bodies on top.
If there is brood in the top hive, next check the bottom hive.  If there is
no brood, take that and, again, set it as close as possible to the remaining
two.
You might find there is brood in all three bodies.  That is not unusual.  If
that is the case, wait for a day that is 60 degrees and move all the brood
into two bodies.  Be certain you find the queen and she is in one of the two
bodies.  Then again take the remaining body and set it as close as possible
to the two bodies you want to keep.
If you leave any brood or eggs in the body you set aside, the bees will not
leave and will raise a new queen, which will not be of very good quality.
Finally, whatever body you set aside will get attacked by wax moths and the
comb ruined.  To prevent this either store with a moth repellent or, when
you are certain that the queen is not in that body, take the top off.  Rain
won't hurt the comb, and the wax moths will not lay eggs if the comb is
exposed to sunlight.
Good luck!
 
lloydspear@msn.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Walt Barricklow <pondsite@barnwellsc.com>
To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Date: Monday, December 22, 1997 6:10 AM
Subject: splitting a three level hive
 
 
>I need some help on this one.  Last fall I put on an additional deep hive
>body, to reduce the chance of
>swarming. It is my understanding that through the winter, bees will move up
>in the hive. So far winter
>here is low 40s to 50s in the south.  I want to take out one of the deep
>supers, and thought that the best
>one would be the bottom, as the bees will mostly bee in the top two deep
>supers by late January. I do
>not want to split the hive or requeen, just get the bees ready for spring
>in two deep  supers. I thought
>early in the morning when temps are lower might work.  Ive never tried this
>before, so any help will be
>greatly appreciated.  tnx walt
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 22 Dec 1997 20:54:04 +0200
Reply-To:     jtemp@xs4all.nl
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Jan Tempelman <jtemp@xs4all.nl>
Organization: Home
Subject:      Re: Starter Help
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854";
              x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
Jerry Scott wrote:
 
> Hi,
>         .....
 
.......
 
> ping to find a guide to help
> start things right.  Also, so I don't pester this list with a bunch of
> newbie dumb questions, that may seem important to me.
 
there are no dumb questions, only dump ansers
 
> Like: I was
> thinking of starting with the Buckfast Queen from B. Weaver Apiaries.
> Only because their write up states they are gentle and easy keeping
> bee's good for the novice beekeeper.  Is this an OK choice or should we
> do something different?
 
good questions, sure, let the list tell you the truth about them.
 
joy the list
=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=
=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=
=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0
Jan Tempelman / Ineke Drabbe     |     EMAIL:jtemp@xs4all.nl
Sterremos 16               3069 AS Rotterdam, The Netherlands
Tel/Fax (SOMETIMES) XX 31 (0)10-4569412
http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/index3.html
=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=
=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=
=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 22 Dec 1997 16:45:29 -0500
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         "Douglas A. Robertson" <tantra@lr.net>
Subject:      Re: Poisonous? Hallucinogenic? Illegal? Honey...
In-Reply-To:  <349C835D.7B5B@telis.org>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
 
You wrote:
 
>12/20/97
>
>Hey, good question, Garth!  And do bees pollinate cannabis?, and opium
>poppies?, and coca plants? and jimson weed? etc., etc.
>
>If so, would this honey be hallucinogenic (and illegal) as well as
>poisonous???  Seems like we would have heard of it by now...  Maybe the
>bees avoid these plants, or else convert any active substances into
>harmless ones.
>
>=gary=
>
 
Cannabis is wind pollinated.  The flowers produce no sweet nectars.  The
pollen is psychoactive.  In Morocco it is separated from the rest of the
plant and smoked as "kif".  Since cactus flowers produce a sweet nectar
aswell as poppies I would assume it would be gathered by bees.  The
psychoactive alkaloids are not very water soluble though so they probably
aren't present in the nectar in any great quantity.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 22 Dec 1997 12:26:27 -1000
Reply-To:     "Thomas W. Culliney" <culliney@elele.peacesat.hawaii.edu>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         "Thomas W. Culliney" <culliney@elele.peacesat.hawaii.edu>
Subject:      On Festivus
In-Reply-To:  <19971221180433564.AAA1708@DEFAULT.barnwellsc.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
 
Filled as I am with good cheer (80 proof), and since the subject of
Festivus did come up, I thought I would share with the list what scant
historical knowledge there is of this important, though little known,
holiday.
 
The origins of Festivus are obscure. It generally is thought that the
beginnings of the holiday can be traced to the early peoples of Asia
Minor, where it evolved from festivals marking the advent of the winter
solstice. From there, the observance spread to Persia and other parts of
west Asia. The holiday is mentioned in the writings of the Greek historian
Eurypterides, in connection with the Atlantis legend, leading some
scholars to place the origins of Festivus much further back in antiquity.
The Roman, Flatus the Elder, writing in the 2nd century B.C., suggested
that the celebration was Etruscan in origin. In any case, the observance
of Festivus was firmly entrenched in southern Europe by about 200 B.C.
(the name Festivus derives from the Latin for "party hardy"), subsequently
spreading northward among the various Celtic tribes early in the first
millennium A.D.; in the process, the festival became imbued with new
rituals and symbols (e.g., the Festivus pole). Generally banned in
Europe during the dark ages because of its pagan origins, Festivus was
revived in the more open intellectual climate of the Renaissance. The
holiday made its way to North America during the great era of European
colonization in the 17th and 18th centuries. Some modern thinkers suggest
that Festivus, with its nonsensical customs and lack of foundation in any
recognizable religion, is the perfect holiday for a secular age. (The
American Civil Liberties Union thus far has not seen fit to challenge the
few municipalities that have put up Festivus displays on public property.)
 
In keeping with the spirit of this season of hope and good vibes,
whatever your persuasion, inclination, delusion, or direction in life,
may you have a merry Christmas, happy Chanukah, remarkable Ramadan, kool
Kwanza, and/or, of course, a festive Festivus.
 
*************************************************************************
Tom Culliney    Hawaii Dept. of Agriculture, Division of Plant Industry,
1428 South King St., Honolulu, HI 96814, U.S.A.
E-mail: culliney@elele.peacesat.hawaii.edu
Telephone: 808-973-9528
FAX: 808-973-9533
 
"To a rough approximation and setting aside vertebrate chauvinism, it can
   be said that essentially all organisms are insects."--R.M. May (1988)
"Bugs are not going to inherit the earth. They own it now. So we might as
   well make peace with the landlord."--T. Eisner (1989)
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 22 Dec 1997 18:19:59 -400
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Comments:     Authenticated sender is <neves@cdc.net>
From:         Ron Neves <neves@cdc.net>
Subject:      Grey Caucasians Vs. Yugo ARS-Y-C-1
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
 
What are the  pros & cons for a beginning Bee keeper using the
Yugo ARS-Y-C-1 vs the Grey Caucasians?
 
Thanks
 
Ron Neves
 
 
--------------------------------------------------
Ron Neves
Personal E-mail: neves@cdc.net
Secondary E-mail: ron.neves@worldnet.att.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 22 Dec 1997 13:33:59 -1000
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Walter Patton <hihoney@ilhawaii.net>
Subject:      Please Read-Hawaii Honey Bee Issue-Not A flame
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
 
Dear BEE-L readers
        The USDA is poised to allow Australian and New Zealand honey bees into the
United States. It has not been in the federal registry and they would like
to allow this to start in Spring of 1998. The USDA already has circumvented
the intent of the Honey Bee act of 1922 with a sloppy (possibly an illegal)
rule making process a couple of years ago that effectively did away with
the Honey Bee Act which was established in 1922 by Congress with the intent
" to prevent the introduction and spread of pests and disease of Honey
Bees" by prohibiting the import of Honey Bees from any where to the U S .
        History lesson over the USDA is ready, in 1998, to allow the Australian
and NZ honey bees into the US. The problem is that the Australians and the
New Zealand bee keeping industry needs easy access to the Honolulu
International Airport as a break and distribution hub to facilitate the
business of exporting their bees to the US, Canada, Korea, and of coarse
China. In the last rule making the USDA  tried to ignore that this
transiting of NZ honey bees through Honolulu airport constituted an entry
into the state of Hawaii which has been prohibited since 1985 by Hawaii
State Statue in an attempt to protect the Hawaiian Honey Bees from the
introduction of Honey bee mites and other diseases. Hawaii queen bees are
certified to be mite free.
        Now after more consideration the USDA has recognized that this transiting
is an entry and that the concerns of the State of Hawaii and the Hawaii bee
keepers should be given a little additional thought. In addition to the
request of New Zealand and Australia other Asian countries according to Dr.
Robert Flanders with APHIS/USDA have been making inquiries about transiting
through Hawaii to export markets. A quick fix was proposed  that if the
State of Hawaii would not object to the transiting of NZ and Aus. Honey
bees that Hawaii would be excluded from the import of the NZ and Aus. Bees
leaving this issue of other countries to be decided at a later date.
        To date the Hawaii Dept. Of Ag has said no to the quick fix and is
developing a protocol proposal for the testing of the Hawaii honey bee
populations. The question is what is needed for a true risk assessment to
be meaningful? How many of the 12 or 14 diseases reported to be present on
the NZ bees should we look for on our bees? Proving a negative being much
more difficult then proving a positive what percentage do we have to check.
100% or
 5 % of total colonies? What is the health status of other nations wishing
to ship through Hawaii and do we screen for those also?
I really and truly do not have a clue as to the answer to these questions.
The Hawaii Dept. Of Ag.is seeking input from the industry and I would
appreciate any suggestions from the group.
Thanking everyone for their considerations in advance and wishing everyone
the Happiest of Holidays-
                        Aloha   Walter Patton   Hawaii
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 22 Dec 1997 17:30:11 -0800
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Stan Umlauft <stanu@honeybee.com>
Subject:      Re: Please Read-Hawaii Honey Bee Issue-Not A flame
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
 
At 01:33 PM 12/22/1997 -1000, you wrote:
>Dear BEE-L readers
>The USDA is poised to allow Australian and New Zealand honey bees into the United States....
 
I personally believe this is a terrible mistake in that its potential for spreading diseases and/or parasites can not be reversed.
 
Simply put: In this case an ounce of prevention is more valuable than tons of cure.
 
If the compelling need for some genetic material from a foreign source arises, I believe strict quarantine procedures should be observed.
 
Safety in beekeeping is more complicated than merely avoiding back injury, and confining fire to your smoker. It's also being a good husband in a very important part of agriculture, which affects us all greatly.
 
Best of luck, I sure hope the bureaucrats don't blow this one.
 
        -              Stan Umlauft dba
       "  `            A & Bee Honey Farms       /)
       "   `           P.O. Box 5155          -8|||}-
   _- -_`-_|'\  /`     Bay Point, CA USA         \)
 _/ / / -' `~()()      94565-0655
  \_\ _ /\-._/\/       (510)458-3900, fax (510)458-5560
       /   | |         email: stanu@honeybee.com
      '`   ^ ^         web site: http://www.wimall.com/beeinfo/
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 22 Dec 1997 21:50:11 -0500
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Al Needham <awneedham@juno.com>
Subject:      Re: Please Read-Hawaii Honey Bee Issue-Not A flame
 
On Mon, 22 Dec 1997 13:33:59 -1000 Walter Patton <hihoney@ilhawaii.net>
writes:
 
>How many of the 12 or 14 diseases reported to be
>present on the NZ bees should we look for on our bees?
 
Walter:
 
This thing between you and NZ keeps periodically popping up here
on the List.
 
Can you provide me/us with a reasoned explanation, that includes some
sort of facts on this issue ?
 
As an aside, do not a number of Canadian Beekeepers import from NZ ?
 
Why do we want to be so unneighborly during this high season
of festive Festivus ?  ( maybe some of the alleged NZ/OZ buggies
might duke it out with our buggies and do the whole lot in, or maybe
we could just export all our buggies to NZ/OZ, oh what the hell, let's
just ship a good sampling of all of our little buggies to Hawaii and see
what develops. )
 
Al,
-----------------------------------------------------------
       <"Mailto: awneedham@juno.com" >
            Scituate,Massachusetts,USA
 The Beehive- Educational Honey Bee Site
     http://www.xensei.com/users/alwine/
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 22 Dec 1997 22:27:59 -0500
Reply-To:     dronebee@norfolk.infi.net
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" <dronebee@norfolk.infi.net>
Organization: Independent non-profit research
Subject:      Re: Documentation of Inspections
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
 
I would like to suggest that you learn how to check for mites and that you start
treatment soon if you find that you have mites.  Mites devastate colonies in a very
short time.  You would be terribly disappointed if you lost your colonies right off
the start.
Best wished during the holiday season, and happy beekeeping next year.
Dr. Rodriguez
Virginia Beach, VA
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 22 Dec 1997 23:47:39 -0800
Reply-To:     vcoppola@epix.net
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Vince Coppola <vcoppola@epix.net>
Subject:      Re: Tracheal Mites
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
 
Pollinator wrote:
> From:   vcoppola@epix.net (Vince Coppola):
.... population had already been exposed to t mite for several years.
> We found that about one fourth of the preselected colonies were valuable as breeders. In Ont. began selection before their bees were exposed for very long. They got about one in ten. Evidently we got a benefit of some natural selection.>>
>
> One beekeeper put it succinctly, Vince:
>
>    "Breeding from live bees is a form of natural selection."
 
Hi Dave,
 
        I agree, it is the selection of live bees. But to assume their survival
indicates they possess any specific trait is naive.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 23 Dec 1997 00:28:13 -0800
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         wd6esz <wd6esz@quick.net>
Subject:      Re: On Festivus
Comments: To: "Thomas W. Culliney" <culliney@elele.peacesat.hawaii.edu>
In-Reply-To:  <Pine.GSO.3.95q.971221110859.13686A-100000@elele.peacesat.hawaii.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
 
On Mon, 22 Dec 1997, Thomas W. Culliney wrote:
> The origins of Festivus are obscure. It generally is thought that the
> beginnings of the holiday can be traced to the early peoples of Asia
> Minor, where it evolved from festivals marking the advent of the winter
> solstice. From there, the observance spread to Persia and other parts of
> west Asia. The holiday is mentioned in the writings of the Greek historian
 
And all this time I thought it was something made up for last week's
Seinfeld episode.  Is there anything in the Seinfeld show that bares any
relation to the true Festivus?
 
        Rich
 
 
> Eurypterides, in connection with the Atlantis legend, leading some
> scholars to place the origins of Festivus much further back in antiquity.
> The Roman, Flatus the Elder, writing in the 2nd century B.C., suggested
> that the celebration was Etruscan in origin. In any case, the observance
> of Festivus was firmly entrenched in southern Europe by about 200 B.C.
> (the name Festivus derives from the Latin for "party hardy"), subsequently
> spreading northward among the various Celtic tribes early in the first
> millennium A.D.; in the process, the festival became imbued with new
> rituals and symbols (e.g., the Festivus pole). Generally banned in
> Europe during the dark ages because of its pagan origins, Festivus was
> revived in the more open intellectual climate of the Renaissance. The
> holiday made its way to North America during the great era of European
> colonization in the 17th and 18th centuries. Some modern thinkers suggest
> that Festivus, with its nonsensical customs and lack of foundation in any
> recognizable religion, is the perfect holiday for a secular age. (The
> American Civil Liberties Union thus far has not seen fit to challenge the
> few municipalities that have put up Festivus displays on public property.)
>
> In keeping with the spirit of this season of hope and good vibes,
> whatever your persuasion, inclination, delusion, or direction in life,
> may you have a merry Christmas, happy Chanukah, remarkable Ramadan, kool
> Kwanza, and/or, of course, a festive Festivus.
>
> *************************************************************************
> Tom Culliney    Hawaii Dept. of Agriculture, Division of Plant Industry,
> 1428 South King St., Honolulu, HI 96814, U.S.A.
> E-mail: culliney@elele.peacesat.hawaii.edu
> Telephone: 808-973-9528
> FAX: 808-973-9533
>
> "To a rough approximation and setting aside vertebrate chauvinism, it can
>    be said that essentially all organisms are insects."--R.M. May (1988)
> "Bugs are not going to inherit the earth. They own it now. So we might as
>    well make peace with the landlord."--T. Eisner (1989)
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 23 Dec 1997 08:17:40 +0000
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Richard Drutchas <stinger@together.net>
Subject:      Re: Please Read-Hawaii Honey Bee Issue-Not A flame
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
 
Walter Patton wrote:
>
> Dear BEE-L readers
>         The USDA is poised to allow Australian and New Zealand honey bees into the
> United States. It has not been in the federal registry and they would like
> to allow this to start in Spring of 1998. The USDA already has circumvented
> the intent of the Honey Bee act of 1922 with a sloppy (possibly an illegal)
> rule making process a couple of years ago that effectively did away with
> the Honey Bee Act which was established in 1922 by Congress with the intent
> " to prevent the introduction and spread of pests and disease of Honey
> Bees" by prohibiting the import of Honey Bees from any where to the U S .
>         History lesson over the USDA is ready, in 1998, to allow the Australian
> and NZ honey bees into the US. The problem is that the Australians and the
> New Zealand bee keeping industry needs easy access to the Honolulu
> International Airport as a break and distribution hub to facilitate the
> business of exporting their bees to the US, Canada, Korea, and of coarse
> China. In the last rule making the USDA  tried to ignore that this
> transiting of NZ honey bees through Honolulu airport constituted an entry
> into the state of Hawaii which has been prohibited since 1985 by Hawaii
> State Statue in an attempt to protect the Hawaiian Honey Bees from the
> introduction of Honey bee mites and other diseases. Hawaii queen bees are
> certified to be mite free.
>         Now after more consideration the USDA has recognized that this transiting
> is an entry and that the concerns of the State of Hawaii and the Hawaii bee
> keepers should be given a little additional thought. In addition to the
> request of New Zealand and Australia other Asian countries according to Dr.
> Robert Flanders with APHIS/USDA have been making inquiries about transiting
> through Hawaii to export markets. A quick fix was proposed  that if the
> State of Hawaii would not object to the transiting of NZ and Aus. Honey
> bees that Hawaii would be excluded from the import of the NZ and Aus. Bees
> leaving this issue of other countries to be decided at a later date.
>         To date the Hawaii Dept. Of Ag has said no to the quick fix and is
> developing a protocol proposal for the testing of the Hawaii honey bee
> populations. The question is what is needed for a true risk assessment to
> be meaningful? How many of the 12 or 14 diseases reported to be present on
> the NZ bees should we look for on our bees? Proving a negative being much
> more difficult then proving a positive what percentage do we have to check.
> 100% or
>  5 % of total colonies? What is the health status of other nations wishing
> to ship through Hawaii and do we screen for those also?
> I really and truly do not have a clue as to the answer to these questions.
> The Hawaii Dept. Of Ag.is seeking input from the industry and I would
> appreciate any suggestions from the group.
> Thanking everyone for their considerations in advance and wishing everyone
> the Happiest of Holidays-
>                         Aloha   Walter Patton   Hawaii
 
 
 
 
Greatings Walt, for what its worth has'nt Canada been bringing in bees
from NZ. and Aus. for some time now? Since bees can move freely from
Canada to the States we've probably already got what they got,(half moon
disease) or whatever. Seems like the queen and package producers
wouldn't want this competition and would ban together to put up a stink.
 Must be they can fly direct to Canada or do they stop already stop in
Hawaii?
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 23 Dec 1997 08:31:14 EST
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Aaron Morris <SYSAM@cnsibm.albany.edu>
Subject:      Festivus
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
 
I think Tom is pulling our leg.  The first I ever heard of Festivus was
on "Seinfeld" last Thursday (for non-US subscribers, "Seinfeld" is a
popular half hour situation comedy which airs on Thusday evenings).
 
Tom did such a good job slinging his tale that I at least threw
"Festivus" at a web search engine, which DID yield two hits, one being
a German page (I forgot all my German soon after high school) and the
other being a Spider page (what do you expect on the web?), the Salticus
page where I discovered that festivus is an obscure specie of arachnid.
 
So remember, you can't believe everything you read on the net.  You will
even find nontruths on BEE-L!  Thanks for the laughs Tom.
 
Not meaning to slight anyone, just sending the greetings of the
holiday I observe at this time of year, Merry Christmas everyone!
 
Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee!
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 23 Dec 1997 08:43:21 EST
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         AdamsHonCo <AdamsHonCo@aol.com>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject:      Re: Grey Caucasians Vs. Yugo ARS-Y-C-1
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
 
You did not relate as your location, but speaking for my self in the central
Florida
area the ARS Y C 1 bees don't do to well.
They are slow to build and be ready to take advantage of the orange bloom.They
are good about  having  good stores going into the winter when you overwinter
in singles, as I do. I want bees in the boxes come mid to late Feb. and
caucasians
and italians do that better for me .
 
I have used 500 - 600 of the ARS Y C 1 queens in the last 3 years and this has
been my observations from them.
 
David
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 23 Dec 1997 09:24:33 EST
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Pollinator <Pollinator@aol.com>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject:      Re: Bees and Avocado Pollination
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
 
In a message dated 97-12-21 19:53:43 EST, Nick Wallingford
 <nickw@beekeeping.co.nz > writes:
 
<< I haven't tasted any select source honey here, but I have tasted
 Californian avocado honey.  Let me be polite and say it isn't one of
 my favourites.  I expect ours is equally 'pleasant'...>>
 
    I have some avocado honey from Homestead, Florida. It is strong, but has a
nice flavor.  It may not be pure avocado.......
 
Pollinator@aol.com     Dave Green  Hemingway, SC  USA
The Pollination Scene:  http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html
 
Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop    (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles)
http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 23 Dec 1997 09:24:19 EST
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Pollinator <Pollinator@aol.com>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject:      Re: LOVE Letter to Andy Nachbaur (and all) at Christmas
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
 
In a message dated 97-12-19 11:50:12 EST, hihoney@ilhawaii.net (Walter Patton)
writes:
 
<<   Andy hoping you have a very Happy Holiday season and Keep up your
efforts.
 Your ads are so suttle and so bee related. I was surprised to hear some one
 jump Andy. >>
 
    Andy, you have provided inspiration, service, humor, and non-politically
correct opinions to the beekeeping community for many years. I won't complain,
if you sneak in an occasional on-topic advertisement. You've paid your dues.
 
   How is your health, Andy?  Perhaps not all the group knows that the years
of working in the hot sun took its toll on your health.  Our prayers have been
with you.
 
   We hope you will be giving a lot more years of your contributions.  And,
having provided a non-profit informational web site myself, I have an
*inkling* of how much it has cost you.  Thank you.
 
   For each member of the list, I give my warmest hopes of more than a Merry
Christmas, better yet, a Blessed Christmas.  I want to encourage each one to
stop in all the rush and give silence an opportunity. May the Word that broke
into that Silent Night so long ago, again speak to our hearts, with hope and
love and redemption.
 
    We have a new grandbaby, and it gives special meaning to the thought of
the hands that formed the worlds, that again touched this world as a tiny
child, bringing a message to us that could not be expressed, without becoming
one of us.
 
   God bless each and every one.
 
Pollinator@aol.com     Dave Green  Hemingway, SC  USA
The Pollination Scene:  http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html
 
Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop    (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles)
http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 23 Dec 1997 09:24:27 EST
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Pollinator <Pollinator@aol.com>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject:      Re: splitting a three level hive
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
 
In a message dated 97-12-22 06:10:59 EST, pondsite@barnwellsc.com (Walt
Barricklow) writes:
 
<< I need some help on this one.  Last fall I put on an additional deep hive
 body, to reduce the chance of
 swarming. It is my understanding that through the winter, bees will move up
 in the hive. So far winter
 here is low 40s to 50s in the south.  I want to take out one of the deep
 supers, and thought that the best
 one would be the bottom, as the bees will mostly bee in the top two deep
 supers by late January. I do
 not want to split the hive or requeen, just get the bees ready for spring
 in two deep  supers. I thought
 early in the morning when temps are lower might work.  Ive never tried this
 before, so any help will be
 greatly appreciated. >>
 
   Walt, I've been moving bees and working bees this past week, with no
problems. Generally I move the hives when as cool as possible (early morning),
and work inside the hives at midday. Anytime the teperatures are above 50, you
don't need to worry about opening a hive, if it is reasonably strong, and you
don't leave brood frames exposed to the cold for more than the few seconds it
takes to look at them.
 
   In sorting out your boxes - a rule of thumb:  Never leave empty combs above
the bees. Honey above bees is fine (and necessary!), it will hold and store
heat, as well as provide food energy as the bees move up. But whenever there
are empty boxes above the cluster, you have a lot of wasted heat, which rises
into the empty space and is dissapated. This will cause the bees to decline
rapidly.
 
   For the same reason, hives should not be in a location where they are
exposed to strong winds. It usually is not a problem early in the winter, but
we normally get a lot of wind in February and March. Their struggle to heat
their homes really takes a lot of feed, and they will often decline visibly
after just one or two storms. We are trying to get all of our bees back out of
the fields and into sheltered locations, but many spots are too wet to be
accessible.
 
    Empty space can be left below the bees, if you think they are likely to
expand quickly in the spring. They do not have to heat this space, so this is
not a problem. However mice may easily get into this unoccupied space.
 
   Any hive that does not have a good cap of honey over the brood nest right
now is being checked for queen problems, then fed. Next month we start feeding
everything, whether it seems to need it or not.  The feed will be repaid in
additional strength in the spring.  Our winters are not as severe as northern
winters, but they definitely are a factor to contend with, in our management.
 
Pollinator@aol.com     Dave Green  Hemingway, SC  USA
The Pollination Scene:  http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html
 
Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop    (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles)
http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 23 Dec 1997 09:24:32 EST
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Pollinator <Pollinator@aol.com>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject:      Re: Starter Help
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
 
In a message dated 97-12-22 14:04:30 EST, jscott2@Tandy.com (Jerry Scott)
writes:
 
       <<  I'm not only new to this list, but I'm new to beekeeping.  I've
 had the interest for some time now and am tired of just reading about
 it.  I, therefore hope to start with a couple of hives this coming
 Spring.>>
 
    Welcome aboard and best wishes of success.
 
<<         I live in Lipan, Texas - which is just west of Fort Worth,
 Texas.  I am hoping to make contact someone that lives in this area to
 help GUIDE me in starting the hives so I don't start off by murdering
 them.>>
 
    You are in a very active beekeeping area. We were just there, this past
summer and visited several beekeepers. I am reluctant to volunteer their
services without their permission, but you can check with your county
extension to locate bee clubs and beekeepers who can help. It is hard to get
everything from books.
 
<<         I have bought most of the supplies (I think - brood boxes,
 supers, frames, queen excluder, covers, smoker, bee suit, hive tool) for
 two hives (two catalog starter kits).  Only lacking the starter
 foundation, and bee's, which I understand shouldn't be ordered until
 Spring.>>
 
   Better order the bees now and get into the order books. The suppliers may
be sold out by spring.
 
      <<   I and my wife have done a lot of reading about beekeeping.  But,
 we some how feel that beside making it all seem very complex, all the
 reading won't be enough.  That's why I'm hoping to find a guide to help
 start things right.  Also, so I don't pester this list with a bunch of
 newbie dumb questions, that may seem important to me.  Like: I was
 thinking of starting with the Buckfast Queen from B. Weaver Apiaries.
 Only because their write up states they are gentle and easy keeping
 bee's good for the novice beekeeper.  Is this an OK choice or should we
 do something different?>>
 
    Buckfast are excellent for a beginner. Some may also recommend Carniolans,
because they are so gentle, but I would not concur for southern beekeepers.
They are a mountain bee, in their original habitat, and they don't hold up
very well in hot southern, summer weather.
 
    Write me, if you wish. I can't always respond; our work goes in spurts,
but I will try to help, when I can. This winter I am hopeful of making a
newbie FAQ for southern beekeepers to post on our web page. Whether it will
get done depends on a lot of things, so again, I won't promise anything.
 
Pollinator@aol.com     Dave Green  Hemingway, SC  USA
The Pollination Scene:  http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html
 
Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop    (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles)
http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 23 Dec 1997 11:45:15 -0500
Reply-To:     dronebee@norfolk.infi.net
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" <dronebee@norfolk.infi.net>
Organization: Independent non-profit research
Subject:      Re: Festivus
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
 
Hi Aaron.
I did enjoy Tom's version.  It sounded so real!  Are you kidding?
Who is telling the truth?
If it washn't because 'tis the season to be jolly' . . . .
Happy holidays for all.
Dr. R.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 23 Dec 1997 14:35:25 EST
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         George C Walker III <walker_honeybees@juno.com>
Subject:      Re: Fw: Queen Excluders or No?
 
We use excluders here in central Texas.  They save time in pulling honey;
greatly expedite spring splits--as we have a three medium brood nest that
just requires separating boxes to split--no frame manipulation, and they
limit migration of brood nest thereby insuring mite applications are with
the brood.  We have utilized these advantages into lower labor costs.
 
Clint Walker III
Walker Apiaries Walker Honey Company
PO BOX 615 ROGERS TEXAS 76569  254.983.BEES
WALKER_HONEYBEES@JUNO.COM
Package Bees, Italian Queens, Varietal Honeys, Beeswax
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 23 Dec 1997 14:34:34 -0500
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Al Needham <awneedham@juno.com>
Subject:      Re: Festivus
 
On Tue, 23 Dec 1997 08:31:14 EST Aaron Morris <SYSAM@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
writes:
>I think Tom is pulling our leg.
 
If Tom is in fact doing that, I must say that he has done
a first class enjoyable job ! It 'sounds good'.
 
On that note... A Festive Festivus To All !
 
:-)
-----------------------------------------------------------
       <"Mailto: awneedham@juno.com" >
            Scituate,Massachusetts,USA
 The Beehive- Educational Honey Bee Site
     http://www.xensei.com/users/alwine/
 
 
 
 
 The first I ever heard of Festivus
>was
>on "Seinfeld" last Thursday (for non-US subscribers, "Seinfeld" is a
>popular half hour situation comedy which airs on Thusday evenings).
>
>Tom did such a good job slinging his tale that I at least threw
>"Festivus" at a web search engine, which DID yield two hits, one being
>a German page (I forgot all my German soon after high school) and the
>other being a Spider page (what do you expect on the web?), the
>Salticus
>page where I discovered that festivus is an obscure specie of
>arachnid.
>
>So remember, you can't believe everything you read on the net.  You
>will
>even find nontruths on BEE-L!  Thanks for the laughs Tom.
>
>Not meaning to slight anyone, just sending the greetings of the
>holiday I observe at this time of year, Merry Christmas everyone!
>
>Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee!
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 23 Dec 1997 16:59:58 EST
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Jameehan <Jameehan@aol.com>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject:      WINTER FEEDING
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
 
I live in coastal Virginia, where the winters are not too severe.  I plan on
feeding the bees a sugar/water mixture in mid January.  Should I also include
some medication in the sugar water?  Is there a recommended sugar/water ratio
for winter feeding?  Thanks,   Jim Meehan  Hampton, VA
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 23 Dec 1997 21:53:10 EST
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Thoswhoyt <Thoswhoyt@aol.com>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject:      Location Needed, please
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
 
In a message dated 97-12-23 08:38:47 EST, you write:
 
 
>  Whereabouts might ya live Ron?  Just a general state, or region
>  of the country would help.
 
This is my first post around here - - but I've learned a lot.
 
BUT, when folks are telling what they are doing or trying - - it can be
important that we know what section of the world they live in.   (If I follow
the lead of the NZ beekeeper - and try to start a new hive - when I have four
feet of SNOW on the ground - I'll probably be very disappointed with  the
results.
 
A simple, consistent, address block at the end of the message will solve the
problem.
 
 
Rev. Thomas W. Hoyt
( No bees - Mites got won the Battle last year )
( but I'll be back )
Central Illinois - USA
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 23 Dec 1997 22:56:14 -0400
Reply-To:     eunice.wonnacott@pei.sympatico.ca
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Eunice Wonnacott <eunice.wonnacott@pei.sympatico.ca>
Subject:      Re: Please Read-Hawaii Honey Bee Issue-Not A flame
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
 
Richard Drutchas wrote:
>
> Walter Patton wrote:
> >
> > Dear BEE-L readers
> >         The USDA is poised to allow Australian and New Zealand honey bees into the
> > United States. It has not been in the federal registry and they would like
> > to allow this to start in Spring of 1998. The USDA already has circumvented
> > the intent of the Honey Bee act of 1922 with a sloppy (possibly an illegal)
> > rule making process a couple of years ago that effectively did away with
> > the Honey Bee Act which was established in 1922 by Congress with the intent
> > " to prevent the introduction and spread of pests and disease of Honey
> > Bees" by prohibiting the import of Honey Bees from any where to the U S .
> >         History lesson over the USDA is ready, in 1998, to allow the Australian
> > and NZ honey bees into the US. The problem is that the Australians and the
> > New Zealand bee keeping industry needs easy access to the Honolulu
> > International Airport as a break and distribution hub to facilitate the
> > business of exporting their bees to the US, Canada, Korea, and of coarse
> > China. In the last rule making the USDA  tried to ignore that this
> > transiting of NZ honey bees through Honolulu airport constituted an entry
> > into the state of Hawaii which has been prohibited since 1985 by Hawaii
> > State Statue in an attempt to protect the Hawaiian Honey Bees from the
> > introduction of Honey bee mites and other diseases. Hawaii queen bees are
> > certified to be mite free.
> >         Now after more consideration the USDA has recognized that this transiting
> > is an entry and that the concerns of the State of Hawaii and the Hawaii bee
> > keepers should be given a little additional thought. In addition to the
> > request of New Zealand and Australia other Asian countries according to Dr.
> > Robert Flanders with APHIS/USDA have been making inquiries about transiting
> > through Hawaii to export markets. A quick fix was proposed  that if the
> > State of Hawaii would not object to the transiting of NZ and Aus. Honey
> > bees that Hawaii would be excluded from the import of the NZ and Aus. Bees
> > leaving this issue of other countries to be decided at a later date.
> >         To date the Hawaii Dept. Of Ag has said no to the quick fix and is
> > developing a protocol proposal for the testing of the Hawaii honey bee
> > populations. The question is what is needed for a true risk assessment to
> > be meaningful? How many of the 12 or 14 diseases reported to be present on
> > the NZ bees should we look for on our bees? Proving a negative being much
> > more difficult then proving a positive what percentage do we have to check.
> > 100% or
> >  5 % of total colonies? What is the health status of other nations wishing
> > to ship through Hawaii and do we screen for those also?
> > I really and truly do not have a clue as to the answer to these questions.
> > The Hawaii Dept. Of Ag.is seeking input from the industry and I would
> > appreciate any suggestions from the group.
> > Thanking everyone for their considerations in advance and wishing everyone
> > the Happiest of Holidays-
> >                         Aloha   Walter Patton   Hawaii
>
> Greatings Walt, for what its worth has'nt Canada been bringing in bees
> from NZ. and Aus. for some time now? Since bees can move freely from
> Canada to the States we've probably already got what they got,(half moon
> disease) or whatever. Seems like the queen and package producers
> wouldn't want this competition and would ban together to put up a stink.
>  Must be they can fly direct to Canada or do they stop already stop in
> Hawaii?
 
 
For the record:
 
        Canada imported from the USA for many years,(we routinely sent our
trucks direct to the bee suppliers )  until the US stocks became
infested with Varroa and Acarine mites.  We then went to Australia and
New Zealand, as being mite free.
 
        It is odd indeed for the suggestion (above) that Canada is the source.
Only if one does not  consider the way infection came into Canada cpould
this be true.  Prince Edward Island and Newfoundland are now the only
mite free areas in Canada, and any importation from anywhere other than
Australia and New Zealand in unlawful.
 
        It is therefore worrisome, to say the least, to find that others
consider Hawaii disease free, and the other two above mentioned
countries a severe risk.  Is there actually any  "clean" area  I
wonder??
 
                Season's Gretings to All
 
        Eunice
 
        "From The Cradel of Confederation"
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 24 Dec 1997 22:11:42 -0600
Reply-To:     gmc@vci.net
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Jonathan <gmc@vci.net>
Subject:      wax
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
 
Hi all,
  i heard that the chemical in apistan gets into the wax, if this is
true, then if you melt your wax down and sell it back to the companies
to make new sheets of wax again and you use it for comb honey, will it
have any affect on you??? your offsprings??  any ideas?? also i was
wondering if anybody new how to lighten, dark colored wax ??
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 24 Dec 1997 11:26:33 GMT+0200
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Garth <g95c6713@warthog.ru.ac.za>
Organization: Rhodes University South Africa
Subject:      Re: Poisonous/hallucogenice/illegal honey/propolis
 
Hi All
 
A number of interesint replies here. Seems however I did not clearly
state my thought about propolis.
 
Bees collect propolis components seperately to nectar. Specific
castes collect propolis as well.
 
I have seen bees collecting resin of leves of fig trees, fig fruits,
paint of wet hives, wax from supers in starage and so on.
 
A hippie beekeeper I have spoken to who goes to the transkei(lots of
cannabis there) frequently has also mentioned that he has seen bees
working the canabis heads. Cannabis heads (buds) are I gather female
and produce no pollen or nectar. Plants are either male or female.
Many 'farmers' kill the male plants. Hence bees are definitely not
pollinating when they are there but are collecting resin.
 
I will try to get a photograph and put it on my web page when that
goes up.
 
Hence the honey in a hive would not be contaminated, but the propolis
would as it would have the resin in it.
 
Keep well
 
Garth
---
Garth Cambray       Camdini Apiaries
15 Park Road        Apis melifera capensis
Grahamstown         800mm annual precipitation
6139
Eastern Cape
South Africa               Phone 27-0461-311663
 
On holiday for a few months     Rhodes University
Which means: working with bees 15 hours a day!
Interests: Fliis and bees
Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this post in no way
reflect those of Rhodes University.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 23 Dec 1997 21:12:26 -0600
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Martin Braunstein <malka@webnet.com.ar>
Subject:      Re: WINTER FEEDING
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
 
Hi Jim,
 
I would suggest you to try the following syrup recipe (although it would be
easier and cheaper to feed Type 55 HFCS ).The quantities are measured in
kilograms and liters. Bear in mind that one kilogram is equivalent ot 2.2
lbs. And that a gallon (four quarts) is equal to 3.78 liters.
 
The proportion of sugar to water is high. You must heat one liter of water,
when it's almost boiling add two kilograms of sugar and stir until it gets
dissolved. Right after that you should add two grams of tartaric acid and
let it boil for 20 minutes. Tartaric acid turns sacarose sugar into sugars
that are easily digested by bees. When it cools down you can feed your bees
confidently. One advantage of this kind of syrup is that it will not
fermentate for many weeks nor it will cristalyze/granulate.
 
Remember: one gram of tartaric acid per each kilogram of sugar.
 
Most Argentine beekeepers use this recipe for both Spring and Fall feeding.
 
Good luck!
 
Martin Braunstein
Malka Cabania Apicola
e-mail: malka@webnet.com.ar
 
 
----------
> From: Jameehan <Jameehan@aol.com>
> To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU
> Subject: WINTER FEEDING
> Date: martes 23 de diciembre de 1997 15:59
>
> I live in coastal Virginia, where the winters are not too severe.  I plan
on
> feeding the bees a sugar/water mixture in mid January.  Should I also
include
> some medication in the sugar water?  Is there a recommended sugar/water
ratio
> for winter feeding?  Thanks,   Jim Meehan  Hampton, VA
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 24 Dec 1997 08:35:06 -0500
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Walt Barricklow <pondsite@barnwellsc.com>
Subject:      Re: splitting a three level hive
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
 
tnx for the info, I will give it a try as soon as it warms up a little.
WALT
 
----------
> From: Peter W. Plumley <pplumley@syr.edu>
> To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU
> Subject: Re: splitting a three level hive
> Date: Sunday, December 21, 1997 8:48 PM
>
> Walt:
>
>         I combined a number of weak hives this September and created some
> triple deckers.  When taking the Apistan Strips off at the end of
October,
> I reduced then to two brood supers. In some hives, the bees had centered
in
> the lower brood super, and in others the top super.  And in all cases,
one
> super was always devoid of bees - and nearly of honey storage too.
>         Therefore, I suggest you simply open them up and find where they
> are centering/clustering - and remove the deep super that has the fewer
> number, which could be the bottom or top.
>         I would also pick the warmest day you can - so if they do fly
> they'll have a chance of making it back inside.
>
> PWP
>
> Plumley Farms - LaFayette, New York
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 24 Dec 1997 08:42:28 -0500
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Walt Barricklow <pondsite@barnwellsc.com>
Subject:      special tnx
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
 
A very special tnx to all of you that responded to my splitting a tri-level
hive.  We wish all of the BEE-L
list a very merry christmas and the happiest new year ever. WALT, no snow
in South Carolina.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 24 Dec 1997 09:08:19 -0500
Reply-To:     mpalmer@together.net
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Michael Palmer <mpalmer@together.net>
Organization: French Hill Apiaries
Subject:      HELP!!!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
 
So, with all you professionals, beginners, PHDers, and wannabees out
there, let me ask you a favor. I need some help for the '98 season.
Running about 1100 colonies in the northern Champlain Valley in Vermont
and New York. It's really beautiful here - Nice country, good birding,
super colors in the fall. Sick of hiring laborers who think of nothing
but Budweiser beer, and dream of nothing but cannabis propolis. I've
called various universities. Most never replied. Employment training is
a waste of time. There must be someone out there. Start in April, done
by mid November. 'Bout ready to give up, but  love working bees too
much! Don't care where you're from, man or woman. Must know bees, be
motivated, and willing to work. I'll teach you, you teach me!
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 24 Dec 1997 09:00:15 -0600
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Jerry Scott <jscott2@tandy.com>
Subject:      Reconditioning Hive Boxes
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
 
Hi,
        I wanted to bound this off all of you since I really don't know
what I'm doing yet.
        I managed to be given a bunch of brood boxes and supers with
frames from a friend of a friend who stopped doing bee's several years
ago.  These boxes and frames have been barn loft kept for several years.
        I thought it would be save to use them because the wood is all
still in really good shape.  I was going to wash them and then repaint
them (just the outside of the box not the inside of the boxes, did read
that in a book).
        My question is:  Since I don't know the guy who owned these
boxes and why he stop keeping bee's (ie: did they all die off), is there
anything else I should be concerned about or do with these boxes before
using them.  I didn't know if any germs or mite treatment to the wood
should be done, other than washing them.  Which bring up, I was just
going to use dish soap in water to wash them, like I would wash my car.
Should I use some special Bee soap (if anything like that exists.
        Any opinions would be helpful and really appreciated.
 
Thanks to all and Merry Christmas.
 
Jerry Scott
jscott2@tandy.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 24 Dec 1997 11:03:51 -0500
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         JOANNA HULL <JoannaHull1@compuserve.com>
Subject:      ALL
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
 
Hi All.  =
 
 
I am going on holiday to Perth Australia in March '98 and I am wondering =
if
there are any Beekeeping clubs or associations in the area that I may
attend while there.  It would be interesting to learn about beekeepers in=
 
other countries.  =
 
 
Thanks in advance =
 
Happy Christmas to you all.
Joanna Hull
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 22 Dec 1997 23:01:55 -0800
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         "James R. Shaver" <shaverjr@juno.com>
Subject:      Re: Please Read-Hawaii Honey Bee Issue-Not A flame
 
I am unsympathetic to Australians wanting to export their bees or honey
anywhere.  I purchased a sampler of New Zealand honey which was
confiscated by Australian customs on the grounds that it endangered the
Australian honey industry even though I had no intention of opening the
jars until returning to California.
 
Jim Shaver,
Los Angeles
 
 
On Mon, 22 Dec 1997 13:33:59 -1000 Walter Patton <hihoney@ilhawaii.net>
writes:
>Dear BEE-L readers
>        The USDA is poised to allow Australian and New Zealand honey
>bees into the
>United States. It has not been in the federal registry and they would
>like
>to allow this to start in Spring of 1998. The USDA already has
>circumvented
>the intent of the Honey Bee act of 1922 with a sloppy (possibly an
>illegal)
>rule making process a couple of years ago that effectively did away
>with
>the Honey Bee Act which was established in 1922 by Congress with the
>intent
>" to prevent the introduction and spread of pests and disease of Honey
>Bees" by prohibiting the import of Honey Bees from any where to the U
>S .
>        History lesson over the USDA is ready, in 1998, to allow the
>Australian
>and NZ honey bees into the US. The problem is that the Australians and
>the
>New Zealand bee keeping industry needs easy access to the Honolulu
>International Airport as a break and distribution hub to facilitate
>the
>business of exporting their bees to the US, Canada, Korea, and of
>coarse
>China. In the last rule making the USDA  tried to ignore that this
>transiting of NZ honey bees through Honolulu airport constituted an
>entry
>into the state of Hawaii which has been prohibited since 1985 by
>Hawaii
>State Statue in an attempt to protect the Hawaiian Honey Bees from the
>introduction of Honey bee mites and other diseases. Hawaii queen bees
>are
>certified to be mite free.
>        Now after more consideration the USDA has recognized that this
>transiting
>is an entry and that the concerns of the State of Hawaii and the
>Hawaii bee
>keepers should be given a little additional thought. In addition to
>the
>request of New Zealand and Australia other Asian countries according
>to Dr.
>Robert Flanders with APHIS/USDA have been making inquiries about
>transiting
>through Hawaii to export markets. A quick fix was proposed  that if
>the
>State of Hawaii would not object to the transiting of NZ and Aus.
>Honey
>bees that Hawaii would be excluded from the import of the NZ and Aus.
>Bees
>leaving this issue of other countries to be decided at a later date.
>        To date the Hawaii Dept. Of Ag has said no to the quick fix
>and is
>developing a protocol proposal for the testing of the Hawaii honey bee
>populations. The question is what is needed for a true risk assessment
>to
>be meaningful? How many of the 12 or 14 diseases reported to be
>present on
>the NZ bees should we look for on our bees? Proving a negative being
>much
>more difficult then proving a positive what percentage do we have to
>check.
>100% or
> 5 % of total colonies? What is the health status of other nations
>wishing
>to ship through Hawaii and do we screen for those also?
>I really and truly do not have a clue as to the answer to these
>questions.
>The Hawaii Dept. Of Ag.is seeking input from the industry and I would
>appreciate any suggestions from the group.
>Thanking everyone for their considerations in advance and wishing
>everyone
>the Happiest of Holidays-
>                        Aloha   Walter Patton   Hawaii
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 24 Dec 1997 12:16:38 +0000
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Richard Bonney <rebonney@javanet.com>
Subject:      Re: WINTER FEEDING
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
 
The following is excerpted from an article on sugar in "Bee Culture"
from February 1997.  The researcher mentioned is Leslie Bailey from
England. If anyone is interested in a citation I can track it down.
 
Using Cream of Tartar.
 
        A part of the normal process when bees convert nectar to honey in the
hive involves the chemical inversion of sugar. Simply stated, sucrose is
converted to glucose and fructose.
        When we feed bees sugar syrup, they make a similar inversion. The
standard feed, granulated sugar, is sucrose. The bees convert this to
glucose and fructose before storing it.
        It has long been the practice of many beekeepers to add tartaric acid
to sugar syrup to aid in the inversion process, and instructions for
making syrup often call for tartaric acid, either as such, or in the
form of cream of tartar. The acid also prevents crystallization of the
syrup later.
        Many years ago a researcher found that if no natural nectar was coming
in, feeding syrup containing cream of tartar (or vinegar) caused
dysentery, shortening the lives of the bees to one third that of bees
fed plain sugar syrup. This finding was written up at the time but does
not seem to have become part of the common knowledge of beekeepers.
Tartaric acid is still occasionally recommended, without any
qualification as to the possible ill effects. Use it judiciously if at
all.
 
Dick Bonney
rebonney@javanet.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 24 Dec 1997 13:30:36 -0800
Reply-To:     mister-t@clinic.net
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Bill Truesdell <mister-t@clinic.net>
Subject:      Re: WINTER FEEDING
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
 
The paper which the article cites also looked at corn syrup, honey and sugar
(boiled and heated) and came to the conclusion that the best winter feed was plain
sugar syrup- not boiled but just dissolved. It caused the least- if any-
dysentary.
 
 
Richard Bonney wrote:
 
> The following is excerpted from an article on sugar in "Bee Culture"
> from February 1997.  The researcher mentioned is Leslie Bailey from
> England. If anyone is interested in a citation I can track it down.
>
> Using Cream of Tartar.
>
>         A part of the normal process when bees convert nectar to honey in the
> hive involves the chemical inversion of sugar. Simply stated, sucrose is
> converted to glucose and fructose.
>         When we feed bees sugar syrup, they make a similar inversion. The
> standard feed, granulated sugar, is sucrose. The bees convert this to
> glucose and fructose before storing it.
>         It has long been the practice of many beekeepers to add tartaric acid
> to sugar syrup to aid in the inversion process, and instructions for
> making syrup often call for tartaric acid, either as such, or in the
> form of cream of tartar. The acid also prevents crystallization of the
> syrup later.
>         Many years ago a researcher found that if no natural nectar was coming
> in, feeding syrup containing cream of tartar (or vinegar) caused
> dysentery, shortening the lives of the bees to one third that of bees
> fed plain sugar syrup. This finding was written up at the time but does
> not seem to have become part of the common knowledge of beekeepers.
> Tartaric acid is still occasionally recommended, without any
> qualification as to the possible ill effects. Use it judiciously if at
> all.
>
> Dick Bonney
> rebonney@javanet.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 24 Dec 1997 17:41:34 +0000
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Murray McGregor <murray@denrosa.demon.co.uk>
Subject:      Re: Please Read-Hawaii Honey Bee Issue-Not A flame
In-Reply-To:  <19971224.090747.3502.3.shaverjr@juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
 
In article <19971224.090747.3502.3.shaverjr@juno.com>, "James R. Shaver"
<shaverjr@juno.com> writes
>I am unsympathetic to Australians wanting to export their bees or honey
>anywhere.  I purchased a sampler of New Zealand honey which was
>confiscated by Australian customs on the grounds that it endangered the
>Australian honey industry even though I had no intention of opening the
>jars until returning to California.
>
>Jim Shaver,
>Los Angeles
>
>
Dear Jim,
 
I do not know when this happened to you, but I had similar experience at
Miami during the 1980's when all the foodstuffs I had with me were
confiscated by US customs.
 
Nowadays trade is more open and this sort of thing is less likely to
occur. For your information, as well as being beekeepers we are honey
packers, and can tell you that the Australian laws forbidding honey
imports have now (this year) been radically altered. We have sold some
consignments of honey into Australia and this included British, American
and New Zealand speciality varieties. This is now on sale in a prominent
chain of department stores there.
 
So, if they have opened their barriers, surely some kind of
reciprocation, except in the case of a serious health risk, is fair.
 
Kind regards
 
 
Murray McGregor
Denrosa Ltd.
Victoria St.
Coupar Angus
Perthshire, PH13 9AE
Scotland
 
murray@denrosa.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 24 Dec 1997 13:14:28 -0500
Reply-To:     beeworks@muskoka.net
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Comments:     Authenticated sender is <beeworks@pop.muskoka.net>
From:         David Eyre <beeworks@muskoka.net>
Organization: The Bee Works
Subject:      Re: Ho, Ho, Ho.
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
 
Merry Ho, Ho, Ho, every one.
*******************************************
The Bee Works, 9 Progress Dr, Unit 2,
Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1
Phone/fax  705-326-7171
David Eyre, Owner.
http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks
e-mail <beeworks@muskoka.net>
********************************************
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 24 Dec 1997 19:17:27 +-100
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Comments:     RFC822 error: <W> CC field duplicated. Last occurrence was
              retained.
Comments:     RFC822 error: <W> CC field duplicated. Last occurrence was
              retained.
Comments:     RFC822 error: <W> CC field duplicated. Last occurrence was
              retained.
Comments:     RFC822 error: <W> CC field duplicated. Last occurrence was
              retained.
From:         Jorn Johanesson <apimo@post4.tele.dk>
Subject:      Merry Christmas!
Comments: cc: Steven Turner <steven.turner@amigabee.org.uk>,
          "HTHO@btmv56.se.bel.alcatel.be" <thoneh@btmaa.bel.alcatel.be>,
          tele dk <webmaster@home.inet.tele.dk>
 
I Onskes alle en rigtig god Jul og et godt Nytar!
 
I wish a Meery Christmas and a Happy New Year to all of You!
 
 
Best regards Jorn Johanesson
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 24 Dec 1997 14:05:47 -0500
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Mike Griggs <mhg3@cornell.edu>
Subject:      Re: HELP!!! Wanted
In-Reply-To:  <16425022717563@systronix.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
 
Michael,
 
Hi,  I saw your message on bee-l and just wanted to respond.  I have been
dabbling with the idea of changing work directions for some time and have
been exploring the possibility of connecting up with a small company where
intelligent hard work pays off both financially and personally.
 
I am perhaps  a bit different than  what you might have had in mind, but am
still interested.  I have a masters in entomology, three years experience
teaching beekeeping in N. Africa (peace corps) have been keeping bees as a
hobby for 15  years and have been assisting a local commercial beekeeper
for the last six months.  Currently I have a position here in an insect
pathology lab for the USDA on Cornell campus.
 
Let me know what you are thinking after the holidays.  If nothing else I
would interested in your operation. Details on your  bees/season/flows/area
etc.
 
Have a happy holiday season!  Hope to hear from you.
 
Mike Griggs mhg3@cornell.edu
Entomologist/Support Scientist
http://www.ppru.cornell.edu/biocontrol/griggs.html
 
ps I just finished pouring over 50 lbs of wax candles and am looking
forward to a break while I am visiting  family over Christmas
 
>Reply-to:      mpalmer@together.net
>From:          Michael Palmer <mpalmer@together.net>
>
>So, with all you professionals, beginners, PHDers, and wannabees out
>there, let me ask you a favor. I need some help for the '98 season.
>Running about 1100 colonies in the northern Champlain Valley in Vermont
>and New York. It's really beautiful here - Nice country, good birding,
>super colors in the fall. Sick of hiring laborers who think of nothing
>but Budweiser beer, and dream of nothing but cannabis propolis. I've
>called various universities. Most never replied. Employment training is
>a waste of time. There must be someone out there. Start in April, done
>by mid November. 'Bout ready to give up, but  love working bees too
>much! Don't care where you're from, man or woman. Must know bees, be
>motivated, and willing to work. I'll teach you, you teach me!
>---
>NB:1.Send replies to the author or BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU - not this list
>    2.To unsubscribe, email HoneyBee@systronix.net saying "leave BestOfBee"
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 24 Dec 1997 12:41:25 -0600
Reply-To:     allend@internode.net
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Comments:     Authenticated sender is <allend@mail.internode.net>
From:         Allen Dick <allend@internode.net>
Subject:      Re: WINTER FEEDING
In-Reply-To:  <34A17EFB.58E0E96D@clinic.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
 
> The paper which the article cites also looked at corn syrup, honey and
> sugar (boiled and heated) and came to the conclusion that the best winter
> feed was plain sugar syrup- not boiled but just dissolved. It caused the
> least- if any- dysentary.
 
Very good advice.
 
Another factor to be sure to consider is that when we talk about 'corn
syrup' we are *not* talking about the kind you buy on the store shelf --
that kind is toxic to confined bees.
 
We are talking type 55 high Fructose Corn Syrup (HFCS).  This product is a
satisfactory winter feed IF it is made by enzymatic method and is not
off-spec. We buy it by the tanker load, and sometimes a big beekeeper will
share with his smaller neighbours.
 
Although HFCS is a good feed and even the type 42 can be used in southern
areas, caged bee tests show better longevity with sucrose in water than
with HFCS, and therefore we don't take any chances with our bees in
winter; we feed sucrose early in the fall and let the bees work it into
good stores.
 
We use HFCS in spring and summer -- if it is cheaper than sucrose at the
time.  We never would use the consumer type corn syrup for anything but
pancakes (But why use corn syrup when honey mixed down to syrup
consistency is *so* much better than corn syrup -- or even maple syrup?)
 
Allen
---
You can search the BEE-L archives by sending email to
LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU saying
SEARCH BEE-L "key phrase"
Substitute a key phrase for "key phrase" above.
and remember to use the double quotes to exclude
hits on the individual words in the phrase
---
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 24 Dec 1997 16:36:03 -0500
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         John M Thorp <hallelujah.honey.co@juno.com>
Subject:      Re: Poisonous/hallucogenice/illegal honey/propolis
Comments: cc: g95c6713@warthog.ru.ac.za
 
Hi
Garth,                                                                  Hope
all is well with you and yours during this Christmas holiday season and
you recieve all your desires as per
3John2.                                 At any rate we've all
known "Hippies" now or in the past. For the ones I have known, none of
them are "Beekeepers". As a matter of high (ha-ha-ha,or for this
season,ho-ho-ho) scientific interest would you ask your hippie beekeeper
friend if he has ever used cannabis in his smoker? If it works as good on
bees as it does on people---hum,somthing to think about. For that matter
does anyone else out there have any first hand knowledge on this? Seems
as though theirs someone out there that would light their smoker for more
than bees.
Take Care and GBY,John in Homestead,also at<cfwc2@gil.net>
 
On Wed, 24 Dec 1997 11:26:33 GMT+0200 Garth <g95c6713@warthog.ru.ac.za>
writes:
Hi All
A hippie beekeeper I have spoken to who goes to the transkei(lots of
cannabis there) frequently has also mentioned that he has seen bees
working the canabis heads. Cannabis heads (buds) are I gather female
and produce no pollen or nectar. Plants are either male or female.
Many 'farmers' kill the male plants. Hence bees are definitely not
pollinating when they are there but are collecting resin.
 
I will try to get a photograph and put it on my web page when that
goes up.
 
Keep well
 
Garth
 
Garth Cambray       Camdini Apiaries
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 24 Dec 1997 06:04:30 -0500
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Edward A Craft <ecraft@magicnet.net>
Subject:      Re: Poisonous/hallucogenice/illegal honey/propolis
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
 
>.                                 As a matter of high (ha-ha-ha,or for this
>season,ho-ho-ho) scientific interest would you ask your hippie beekeeper
>friend if he has ever used cannabis in his smoker? If it works as good on
>bees as it does on people---hum,somthing to think about. For that matter
>does anyone else out there have any first hand knowledge on this? Seems
>as though theirs someone out there that would light their smoker for more
>than bees.
>Take Care and GBY,John in Homestead,also at<cfwc2@gil.net>
 
 
 John
    Get me a sack full and I'll let you know the results.
 
                                    Ed
 
 
 
 
Ed Craft
14887 Oldham Dr
Orlando, FL 32826
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 25 Dec 1997 06:28:27 +-800
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Alan Norris <anlec@iinet.net.au>
Subject:      Re: ALL
Comments: cc: "JoannaHull1@compuserve.com" <JoannaHull1@compuserve.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BD10FE.54960F60"
 
------ =_NextPart_000_01BD10FE.54960F60
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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Hello Joanna
There are beekepers in and around the Perth area
The West Australian Apiarist Society meet on the 1st Wed of each month at the Agriculture Department building in South Perth.
If you have any more queries let me know
Merry Xmas (its already xmas day here)
Alan
 
 
                    ANLEC PTY LTD
      Project Electrical Inspection and Supervision
  ,-._|\  Alan Norris           Tel: 08 9448 7471
 /  Oz  \ anlec@iinet.net.au    Mobile:041 791 7144
 \_,--._/ Perth Australia               Fax: 08 9448 5014
 
 
----------
From:   JOANNA HULL[SMTP:JoannaHull1@compuserve.com]
Sent:   Thursday, 25 December 1997 0:03
To:     BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU
Subject:        ALL
 
Hi All.
 
I am going on holiday to Perth Australia in March '98 and I am wondering if
there are any Beekeeping clubs or associations in the area that I may
attend while there.  It would be interesting to learn about beekeepers in
other countries.
 
Thanks in advance
Happy Christmas to you all.
Joanna Hull
 
 
 
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=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 24 Dec 1997 17:48:47 -0500
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Phyllis Brooks <treefarm@ix.netcom.com>
Subject:      Re: Merry Christmas!
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
 
And a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you also.
 
Best'
The Brooks Family
Raleigh, North Carolina USA
 
Jorn Johanesson wrote:
 
> I Onskes alle en rigtig god Jul og et godt Nytar!
>
> I wish a Meery Christmas and a Happy New Year to all of You!
>
> Best regards Jorn Johanesson
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 24 Dec 1997 20:16:45 -0600
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Martin Braunstein <malka@webnet.com.ar>
Subject:      Re: WINTER FEEDING
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
I think any contribution to clarify the issue is quite welcome. However, =
I
wonder whether the two beekeepers who criticized the use of tartaric acid
ever tried it to confirm if it indeed causes what an isolated researcher
stated. Unfortunately it is plenty of pseudoscientists out there writing
and confussing the mind of beekeepers.=20
 
Most dysentery problems are due to poor quality sugar. The whiter the sug=
ar
the most refined it is, when you buy cheap sugar you are probably not
getting any bargain but lots of trouble instead.
When you prepare syrup from cheap unrefined sugar you put into risk the
health of your bees. Some beekeepers purchase broken sacks of sugar or
swept sugar from broken bags. No doubt this dirty sugar carries bacteria =
or
any other stuff that might be harmful for bees.
 
When I suggested the use of tartaric acid it was entirely based not only =
on
my own successful personal experience of the past seven years running a
queen breeding business but also on the success of more than half of
Argentine beekeepers who regularly use sugar syrup made up of sucrose +
tartaric acid without any bee loses, without decreasing the longevity of
bees and without causing disentery. Moreover, all of my baby nucs are fed
this syrup all year around (because of our mild winters I am able to
overwinter about 80% of my queen yard).
 
Notwithstanding it is true that bees do have enzymes that allow them to
invert sucrose into glucose and fructose, this process represents and
energy expense that could be saved through the use of tartaric acid.
 
Some important matters -often ignored when using chemical products- is th=
e
certificate of  quality, origin, date of manufacuting, expiration date an=
d
product specification. No one serious can make a wide generalization
without making reference to what kind of tartaric acid was used to make t=
he
syrup. Perhaps the British researcher did have problems, but how many
different suppliers did he try? Did he check the quality of the products =
he
was using? Maybe this questions sound obvious and silly but not for me
since before running my queen operation I worked for about four years at
the
Purchasing Dept. of a multinational company where this questions were
always made before placing a purchase order.
 
 
Go ahead and feed sugar syrup + tartaric acid. You'll be amazed at the
reaction of your bees. I would never endorse the use of anything without
previously testing it.
 
Merry Christmas for everybody!
 
Martin Braunstein
Malka Cabania Apicola
e-mail: malka@webnet.com.ar
 
 
----------
> From: Richard Bonney <rebonney@javanet.com>
> To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU
> Subject: Re: WINTER FEEDING
> Date: mi=E9rcoles 24 de diciembre de 1997 6:16
>=20
> The following is excerpted from an article on sugar in "Bee Culture"
> from February 1997.  The researcher mentioned is Leslie Bailey from
> England. If anyone is interested in a citation I can track it down.
>=20
> Using Cream of Tartar.
>=20
>         A part of the normal process when bees convert nectar to honey =
in
the
> hive involves the chemical inversion of sugar. Simply stated, sucrose i=
s
> converted to glucose and fructose.
>         When we feed bees sugar syrup, they make a similar inversion. T=
he
> standard feed, granulated sugar, is sucrose. The bees convert this to
> glucose and fructose before storing it.
>         It has long been the practice of many beekeepers to add tartari=
c
acid
> to sugar syrup to aid in the inversion process, and instructions for
> making syrup often call for tartaric acid, either as such, or in the
> form of cream of tartar. The acid also prevents crystallization of the
> syrup later.
>         Many years ago a researcher found that if no natural nectar was
coming
> in, feeding syrup containing cream of tartar (or vinegar) caused
> dysentery, shortening the lives of the bees to one third that of bees
> fed plain sugar syrup. This finding was written up at the time but does
> not seem to have become part of the common knowledge of beekeepers.
> Tartaric acid is still occasionally recommended, without any
> qualification as to the possible ill effects. Use it judiciously if at
> all.
>=20
> Dick Bonney
> rebonney@javanet.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 24 Dec 1997 19:58:28 +0000
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Richard Bonney <rebonney@javanet.com>
Subject:      Re: WINTER FEEDING
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
 
re: the recent exchange of information on tartatic acid I am not
interested in a prolonged debate on this subject but  I would not term
Leslie Bailey of the Rothamsted Experimental Station an isolated
researcher
 
> I think any contribution to clarify the issue is quite welcome. However, I
> wonder whether the two beekeepers who criticized the use of tartaric acid
> ever tried it to confirm if it indeed causes what an isolated researcher
> stated. Unfortunately it is plenty of pseudoscientists out there writing
> and confussing the mind of beekeepers.
 
Dick Bonney
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 24 Dec 1997 22:19:30 -0500
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Al Needham <awneedham@juno.com>
Subject:      Re: Festivus
 
On Tue, 23 Dec 1997 08:31:14 EST Aaron Morris <SYSAM@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
writes:
>I think Tom is pulling our leg.
 
Believe it or not Aaron, I received a message from a service I
subscribe to: (I doubt anyone there subscribes to BEE-L)
 
"Subject: Happy Festivus"
 
Al,
-----------------------------------------------------------
       <"Mailto: awneedham@juno.com" >
            Scituate,Massachusetts,USA
 The Beehive- Educational Honey Bee Site
     http://www.xensei.com/users/alwine/
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 24 Dec 1997 20:35:32 -0800
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Andy Nachbaur <andy.nachbaur@calwest.net>
Subject:      Re: WINTER FEEDING
In-Reply-To:  <34A1695F.284E@javanet.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
 
>DB may have said:
>re: the recent exchange of information on tartatic acid I am not
>interested in a prolonged debate on this subject but  I would not term
>Leslie Bailey of the Rothamsted Experimental Station an isolated
>researcher
 
I have to 2nd that. I have met, talked and worked for short times with a
lot of good research scientists
and research administrators. Some whom the beekeeping industry had little
interest in because we  beekeepers have very narrow vision when it comes to
research and want the "silver bullet" and basic research does not work that
fast. Dr. Bailey is in my book as one of the best bee scientists I have
read or met, beekeepers today are better off for what he has done and
written or would be if they have read him. What impressed me the most about
him was his ability to see the big picture while others in research have a
much narrower view being more concerned with their own research and have no
idea of the big picture. This is not to say he is rong or rite about
"tartaric acid" as used in any bee feed formula as with all things in
beekeeping there are as many variables as beekeepers working. I would not
personally bet any money against any lab work or its results as reported by
Bailey or his co-workers.
 
On the addition of so called active and inert ingredients to bee feed, it
would be easy to pass off the different opinions as "different strokes for
different folks", but I learned early on that with the keeping of bees this
is not always the case and not worth the effort to change peoples opinions,
especially beekeepers as there is nothing we won't argue about, such as
cane vs beet sugar or one race of bees vs another.
 
One thing is clear what works for you in your area is what you should use.
I try, and I think most other beekeepers also try to tell the story of what
they see in their area. I try not to be judgmental or promote what I see as
the best for all. (I sometimes fail at this.) I am fast to admit that some
of what we do, or some cases a lot of what we do is at cross purposes to
the results we would like to have such as good healthy bees all the time
and pockets full of honey money...
 
 
 Here in California because there are more honey bees restricted in a
smaller area then any other place in the world more supplemental feeding of
sugar is done then any place else in the world. More sugar is used here by
bee feeders then some countries in the world use in their total canning
season.  There was a time years long past when bag sugar was used here in
California. Those day's are only a remembrance for most. Having had the
experience of unloading a few car loads of bagged sugar and mixing and
feeding it to bees I can report without any reservations that there is
nothing better then liquid HFCS for bee feed. I am sure that many will
report how they do well with dry sugar or even pure honey, but most who do
when asked also say they have never used HFCS, usually because it is not
available, or priced out of sight because of  high transportations cost, or
in some cases government cane sugar programs that keep political barriers
of one kind or another up making the use of other sugars unattractive. Some
places still shoot you and your family if you don't follow the government
line.
 
Here in the US because of smart early political actions corn refiners were
able to keep HFCS from being considered by our government regulatory
officials as just more sugar in liquid form which in most ways it is. They
have been able to build to overbuild as many HFCS plants as they can afford
which has greatly reduced the number of beet and cane sugar plants and the
acreage devoted to the growing of them, and increased the total acreage
devoted to corn. So far this has been OK for the consumers as competition
has keep the price reasonable if not cheep. When the price of all liquid
sugars are the same, HFCS is the choice of most bee feeders, or a blend of
inverted sucrose and HFCS which some believe is the cream da la cream of
bee feed.
 
There are times when some would want to feed dry sugar. If this was the
normal event in my own apiary I would take the time and expense to mix that
dry bag sugar with the dry invert fondant sugars that are available. The
cost would be higher, but 50 # of dry invert fondant sugar should be enough
if mixed in a small drum mixer with 200# of regular dry sugar to save a lot
of bees from burning out inverting the regular dry sugar. This is very good
from nuc's that do not have replacement bees hatching out, and also good
with hives that are to the "quivering or cold" stage of starvation as they
can get the benefit of this type of sugar blend without repeated trips to
the well for water which is not always possible.
 
>> contribution to clarify the issue is quite welcome. However, I
>> wonder whether the two beekeepers who criticized the use of tartaric acid
>> ever tried it to confirm if it indeed causes what an isolated researcher
>> stated. Unfortunately it is plenty of pseudoscientists out there writing
>> and confussing the mind of beekeepers.
 
I would not presume to criticize how any beekeeper uses any sugar, but
wonder why bother with this type of feed which was abandoned here in
California by most for feeding bees many years ago? At the same time I am
sure what others are doing is best for them and I would most likely be
doing the same if I were in their position and all else were the same, (or
the price of HFCS sugars increased dramatically).
 
IMHO,  Andy-
(c)Permission is given to copy this document
in any form, or to print for any use.
 
(w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE  AT OWN RISK!
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 24 Dec 1997 22:44:11 -0600
Reply-To:     allend@internode.net
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Comments:     Authenticated sender is <allend@mail.internode.net>
From:         Allen Dick <allend@internode.net>
Subject:      Re: WINTER FEEDING
In-Reply-To:  <34A1695F.284E@javanet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
 
I don't think there is any doubt whatsoever that acid inverted feed can
kill wintering bees en mass.
 
As far as the action of tartric acid in sugar syrup, I am not sure what
the effects are and how it works.  Nonetheless, my policy in such cases
is this: if in doubt, take the safe, proven route that is followed by
those who have been successful over the long run.
 
In the case of adding acid to feed, It is obvious that the small benefits
are by far outweighed by the potential losses.  I would ask to see
research that says it is beneficial and safe, rather than research that
proves it isn't.  After the severe losses in Western Canada, researchers
did some tests and studies on various winter feeds and the results were
definitely in favour of plain old sugar water.
 
We *know* without a shadow of a doubt that sucrose dissolved in water
without any additives is safe and effective in ensuring good results --
even better than many honies.  Do we know that about the proposed
alternatives?  I think there are reasonable doubts as to safety in harsh
wintering conditions.
 
Just how I think.  Knock yourself out, but I'll stick with the proven way.
 
We've been over this a bit before.  Check the archives.
 
Allen
 
> re: the recent exchange of information on tartatic acid I am not
> interested in a prolonged debate on this subject but  I would not term
> Leslie Bailey of the Rothamsted Experimental Station an isolated
> researcher
>
> > I think any contribution to clarify the issue is quite welcome. However, I
> > wonder whether the two beekeepers who criticized the use of tartaric acid
> > ever tried it to confirm if it indeed causes what an isolated researcher
> > stated. Unfortunately it is plenty of pseudoscientists out there writing
> > and confussing the mind of beekeepers.
 
---
Newsflash!  Visit http://www.beekeeping.co.nz/beel.htm
to search BEE-L archives the easy, easy way or to
update or change your subscription options.
---
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 25 Dec 1997 19:59:21 PST
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         T & M Weatherhead <queenbee@gil.com.au>
Subject:      Season greetings
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
To all on Bee-L Season Greetings from here in Australia.  Christmas day =
is almost over.  Temperatures were max 35 degrees Celcius and min 20 degr=
ees Celcius.  We had 33 millimetres of rain last night in a storm.  We =
have been having a good year rain wise despite the El Nino.
 
Regards
 
Trevor Weatherhead
AUSTRALIA
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 25 Dec 1997 08:30:18 -0800
Reply-To:     mister-t@clinic.net
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Bill Truesdell <mister-t@clinic.net>
Subject:      Re: WINTER FEEDING
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
 
This exchange on tartaric acid has a key element that new beekeepers should
take into account when you read posts on this list.
Where is the beekeeper located?
"Mild winters" is the reason that tartaric acid "works"  where Martin is. Bees
can fly out of the hive and void. Plus, Tartaric Acid causes some dysentary. It
is not a hive killer. With the combination of earlier build-up and voiding, you
would never see the effect of tartaric acid in an area with mild winters. But
here in Maine you might. I did. And I no longer use tartaric acid.
You can just about feed them anything in early spring or summer and never note
if it is causing problems because of all the variables. Plus, if you do the
same thing to all your hives, how can you tell if it is good or bad? It really
takes lab conditions to show any effect, like that of tartaric acid or even
boiled sugar water, on bees.
 
Bill Truesdell
Bath, ME
 
Martin Braunstein wrote:
 
> I think any contribution to clarify the issue is quite welcome. However, I
> wonder whether the two beekeepers who criticized the use of tartaric acid
> ever tried it to confirm if it indeed causes what an isolated researcher
> stated. Unfortunately it is plenty of pseudoscientists out there writing
> and confussing the mind of beekeepers.
>
> Most dysentery problems are due to poor quality sugar. The whiter the sugar
> the most refined it is, when you buy cheap sugar you are probably not
> getting any bargain but lots of trouble instead.
> When you prepare syrup from cheap unrefined sugar you put into risk the
> health of your bees. Some beekeepers purchase broken sacks of sugar or
> swept sugar from broken bags. No doubt this dirty sugar carries bacteria or
> any other stuff that might be harmful for bees.
>
> When I suggested the use of tartaric acid it was entirely based not only on
> my own successful personal experience of the past seven years running a
> queen breeding business but also on the success of more than half of
> Argentine beekeepers who regularly use sugar syrup made up of sucrose +
> tartaric acid without any bee loses, without decreasing the longevity of
> bees and without causing disentery. Moreover, all of my baby nucs are fed
> this syrup all year around (because of our mild winters I am able to
> overwinter about 80% of my queen yard).
>
> Notwithstanding it is true that bees do have enzymes that allow them to
> invert sucrose into glucose and fructose, this process represents and
> energy expense that could be saved through the use of tartaric acid.
>
> Some important matters -often ignored when using chemical products- is the
> certificate of  quality, origin, date of manufacuting, expiration date and
> product specification. No one serious can make a wide generalization
> without making reference to what kind of tartaric acid was used to make the
> syrup. Perhaps the British researcher did have problems, but how many
> different suppliers did he try? Did he check the quality of the products he
> was using? Maybe this questions sound obvious and silly but not for me
> since before running my queen operation I worked for about four years at
> the
> Purchasing Dept. of a multinational company where this questions were
> always made before placing a purchase order.
>
> Go ahead and feed sugar syrup + tartaric acid. You'll be amazed at the
> reaction of your bees. I would never endorse the use of anything without
> previously testing it.
>
> Merry Christmas for everybody!
>
> Martin Braunstein
> Malka Cabania Apicola
> e-mail: malka@webnet.com.ar
>
> ----------
> > From: Richard Bonney <rebonney@javanet.com>
> > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU
> > Subject: Re: WINTER FEEDING
> > Date: miircoles 24 de diciembre de 1997 6:16
> >
> > The following is excerpted from an article on sugar in "Bee Culture"
> > from February 1997.  The researcher mentioned is Leslie Bailey from
> > England. If anyone is interested in a citation I can track it down.
> >
> > Using Cream of Tartar.
> >
> >         A part of the normal process when bees convert nectar to honey in
> the
> > hive involves the chemical inversion of sugar. Simply stated, sucrose is
> > converted to glucose and fructose.
> >         When we feed bees sugar syrup, they make a similar inversion. The
> > standard feed, granulated sugar, is sucrose. The bees convert this to
> > glucose and fructose before storing it.
> >         It has long been the practice of many beekeepers to add tartaric
> acid
> > to sugar syrup to aid in the inversion process, and instructions for
> > making syrup often call for tartaric acid, either as such, or in the
> > form of cream of tartar. The acid also prevents crystallization of the
> > syrup later.
> >         Many years ago a researcher found that if no natural nectar was
> coming
> > in, feeding syrup containing cream of tartar (or vinegar) caused
> > dysentery, shortening the lives of the bees to one third that of bees
> > fed plain sugar syrup. This finding was written up at the time but does
> > not seem to have become part of the common knowledge of beekeepers.
> > Tartaric acid is still occasionally recommended, without any
> > qualification as to the possible ill effects. Use it judiciously if at
> > all.
> >
> > Dick Bonney
> > rebonney@javanet.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 25 Dec 1997 15:36:14 GMT+0200
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Garth <g95c6713@warthog.ru.ac.za>
Organization: Rhodes University South Africa
Subject:      Funny smoker fuels
Comments: To: John M Thorp <hallelujah.honey.co@juno.com>
In-Reply-To:  <19971224.163606.11046.0.hallelujah.honey.co@juno.com>
 
Hi All/John
 
First a happy Xmas to all!
 
John asked whether I could ask my hippie friend to try and put some
cannabis in a smoker sometime and see what it does to bees/evertying
else nearby.
 
I personally know places where cannabis grows wild nearby here, but
would not be willing to risk accidentally zapping myself in the
proccess or getting zapped by narcs as well.
 
It is interesting to note however that the olnly reasonn the plant
actually wastes valuable energy on making cannabinols is to protect
itself from isects, producing a neurotoxin that damages
co-ordination.
 
In real life, on only has to either try/ look at other who use
cannabis to discover it can have a extremely demotivating effect -
would it have that on the bees too? THC is fat soluble so would also
impregnate in the wax.
 
I have heard of a umber of other things people put in their
smokers though. Local Xhosas use sneezewood chips placed in a burlap
bag as a smoker fuel - this makes bees completely passive. Sneezewood
is a hard, wax impregnated wood that does not rot. It is toxic to
bugs, fungi and so on because of the wax. People have in the past
used it to make ballbearings for mills. People also use rubber tyres
in zimbabwe, and I have heard of other things, like placing a
cigarette in the smoker that purportedly calm the bees.
 
Anybody else heard of funny smoker fuels that defy common sense?
 
 
On the topic of bees and drugs: I read of an experiment where people
adminnistered a number of different drugs to spiders. (since made
famous by cartoon artists) The idea being that a spider can tell you
a bit about how it feels by its web. Methamphetaminne produces a neat
and ective web, cannabis a sketchy useless web, LSD a rather artistic
multidimensional web and so on.
 
Imagine a beehive under the same conditions!!
 
Keep well
 
Garth
---
Garth Cambray       Camdini Apiaries
15 Park Road        Apis melifera capensis
Grahamstown         800mm annual precipitation
6139
Eastern Cape
South Africa               Phone 27-0461-311663
 
On holiday for a few months     Rhodes University
Which means: working with bees 15 hours a day!
Interests: Fliis and bees
Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this post in no way
reflect those of Rhodes University.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 25 Dec 1997 08:42:18 -0500
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         "Ralph W. Harrison" <HarrisonRW@aol.com>
Subject:      HAPPY HOLIDAYS
 
MERRY CHRISTMAS TO THE LIST FROM MILFORD, CONNECTICUT USA. WE ARE LOCATED ON
LONG ISLAND SOUND WHERE THIS CHRISTMAS MORNING IT IS 40 DEGREES AND RAINING.
 
RALPH HARRISON
WESTERN CT BEEKEEPERS ASSOCIATION
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 25 Dec 1997 10:29:09 EST
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         QueenB Jan <QueenBJan@aol.com>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject:      Re: HELP!!! Wanted
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
 
Hi Michael,
 
Wish we could take you up on our offer but we can't leave our honey business
that long.  I would be willing to let you write up an ad and put it on my web
page about bees and beekeeping.  I get an average of 13 hits a day on it by
people who are looking up things about bees and beekeeping.  You might or
might not get an experienced beekeeper that way, but there could be a
potential for someone who really wants to learn about them.
 
Janice Green
...Of Bees, Beekeepers and Food
http://users.aol.com/queenbjan/primbees.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 25 Dec 1997 12:34:54 +0300
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Carlos Aparicio <caparici@chasque.apc.org>
Subject:      Holydays
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
Merry Christmas to the list from Montevideo, Uruguay. We have what it seems
a rainy summer (El Ni=F1o efect) but hot enough.
 
        Carlos Aparicio
 
        Part Time Beekeeper and Lawyer
        12 Beehives
        Montevideo
        Uruguay - South America
*********************************
*                               *
*  Carlos Aparicio              *
*  Attorney at Law              *
*  Associate Professor          *
*  Facultad de Derecho          *
*  Universidad de la Rep=FAblica  *
*  Montevideo, 11200            *
*  Uruguay                      *
*  Phone (598-02) 401-4096      *
*  Fax   (598-02) 575-2961      *
*  caparici@chasque.apc.org     *
*                               *
*********************************
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 25 Dec 1997 11:54:06 -0500
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Phyllis Brooks <treefarm@ix.netcom.com>
Subject:      Re: Season greetings
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
 
Dear Trevor:
 
Merry Christmas to you too.  Thank you for your greetings.
 
I've been to Australia in 1990.  My travels were from Carnes to Melbourne on the east coast.
 
I wish you a Great New Year with health and happiness.
 
Another Beekeeper,
 
Phyllis Brooks
North Carolina USA
 
T & M Weatherhead wrote:
 
> To all on Bee-L Season Greetings from here in Australia.  Christmas day is almost over.  Temperatures were max 35 degrees Celcius and min 20 degrees Celcius.  We had 33 millimetres of rain last night in a storm.  We have been having a good year rain wise despite the El Nino.
>
> Regards
>
> Trevor Weatherhead
> AUSTRALIA
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 26 Dec 1997 13:06:19 +1200
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         John Lewis <lewis@suva.is.com.fj>
Organization: Island Apiaries (Fiji) Ltd.
Subject:      Re: Reconditioning Hive Boxes
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
 
Hello Jerry,
I just here a story about a beekeeper who bought a large number of hives
that where diseased by American Foul Brood. To kill off all of the spoors in
the wood he built a vat that would hold some of the boxes then boiled them
in paraffin to sterilize them. He then set them up with bees in an isolated
apiary for a couple of years as in quarantine. The hives remained free of
AFB.
 
Regards,
 
 
John Lewis
Fiji
 
Jerry Scott wrote:
 
>         My question is:  Since I don't know the guy who owned these
> boxes and why he stop keeping bee's (ie: did they all die off), is there
> anything else I should be concerned about or do with these boxes before
> using them.  I didn't know if any germs or mite treatment to the wood
> should be done, other than washing them.  Which bring up, I was just
> going to use dish soap in water to wash them, like I would wash my car.
> Should I use some special Bee soap (if anything like that exists.
>         Any opinions would be helpful and really appreciated.
>
> Thanks to all and Merry Christmas.
>
> Jerry Scott
> jscott2@tandy.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 25 Dec 1997 20:47:07 -0600
Reply-To:     allend@internode.net
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Comments:     Authenticated sender is <allend@mail.internode.net>
From:         Allen Dick <allend@internode.net>
Subject:      Re: WINTER FEEDING
In-Reply-To:  <199712250435.UAA23450@mail.thegrid.net>
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>  There was a time years long past when bag sugar was used here in
> California. Those day's are only a remembrance for most. Having had the
> experience of unloading a few car loads of bagged sugar and mixing and
> feeding it to bees I can report without any reservations that there is
> nothing better then liquid HFCS for bee feed...
 
We're able to buy sucrose syrup by the tanker load from the refiner,
just like HFCS.  It comes at 67% strength and is very suitable for feed
right out of the tanker.
 
Occasionally the delivered price of HFCS is below that of sucrose and in
that case we use the HFCS in summer.  I personally like HFCS better than
sucrose -- even if we do have to water it down on arrival so that it is
thin enough to handle, since it is not so nasty (hard on the hands) to
handle and does not scum over if left open to dry air.  I find the bees
really like HFCS and do well.  However I've read that in tests it was
slightly less attractive to the bees and also less 'hot' for stimulating
buildup than sucrose syrup.
 
I'm leary about HFCS for winter use since our bees are confined for long
periods.  In caged bee tests cited by Currie,  longevity was reduced by
about 1/3 -- as I recall -- and that would be enough to have our bees die
just as the spring starts, since they are often confined for up to 5 or 6
months.  In an area where other feed comes in to dilute it and the bees
are able to fly more often, I doubt that this effect would be noticed, if
it even exists in such conditions.
 
More info about HFCS and inverts can be found in the logs.
 
Allen
 
---
Newsflash!  Visit http://www.beekeeping.co.nz/beel.htm
to search BEE-L archives the easy, easy way or to
update or change your subscription options.
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=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 25 Dec 1997 20:57:29 -0600
Reply-To:     allend@internode.net
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Comments:     Authenticated sender is <allend@mail.internode.net>
From:         Allen Dick <allend@internode.net>
Subject:      Re: Reconditioning Hive Boxes
In-Reply-To:  <892BD172EE61D11199BB0080D87004A70992E2@ntmaile.tandy.com>
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> I managed to be given a bunch of brood boxes and supers with frames from
> a friend of a friend who stopped doing bee's several years ago.  These
> boxes and frames have been barn loft kept for several years...
 
You don't say whether there is any wax in the combs.  If there is, IMO,
you'd be nuts to cut and melt out the combs without checking for AFB
first.  If none is visible and the wax is not totally destroyed by mice
and worms, you are very safe in using them.
 
To find out how to check for AFB, there are very good descriptions in the
logs several years back as well as intelligent debate between the burn and
melt crowd and the guys (I'm one) who say that if there is little or no
AFB scale and you are in an area where medication with oxytetracycline is
regarded as okay, then just add bees.
 
The net is a lousy place to get advice if you don't even know what you are
looking at.  The best advice is to make friends with a few locals who
keep bees -- maybe join a club or haul your boxes over to a local
commercial beekeeper or bee inspector to look at.  Many hobbyists are very
knowlegable too, but it is hard for a beginner to determine if he has
accidentally stumbled onto one or two that make things away harder to do
than they have to be.
 
Search the logs, using 'AFB' and 'foulbrood' and 'scale' as keys.  Then if
you still have questions, maybe you can restart the debate :)
 
Allen
---
You can search the BEE-L archives by sending email to
LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU saying
SEARCH BEE-L "key phrase"
Substitute a key phrase for "key phrase" above.
and remember to use the double quotes to exclude
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=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 25 Dec 1997 22:19:55 -0600
Reply-To:     BEEMAN52@worldnet.att.net
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Ken Lawrence <BEEMAN52@worldnet.att.net>
Subject:      Re: WINTER FEEDING
Comments: To: allend@internode.net
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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----------
> From: Allen Dick <allend@internode.net>
> To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU
> Subject: Re: WINTER FEEDING
> Date: Thursday, December 25, 1997 8:47 PM
>
> >  There was a time years long past when bag sugar was used here in
> > California. Those day's are only a remembrance for most. Having had the
> > experience of unloading a few car loads of bagged sugar and mixing and
> > feeding it to bees I can report without any reservations that there is
> > nothing better then liquid HFCS for bee feed...
>
> We're able to buy sucrose syrup by the tanker load from the refiner,
> just like HFCS.  It comes at 67% strength and is very suitable for feed
> right out of the tanker.
>
> Occasionally the delivered price of HFCS is below that of sucrose and in
> that case we use the HFCS in summer.  I personally like HFCS better than
> sucrose -- even if we do have to water it down on arrival so that it is
> thin enough to handle, since it is not so nasty (hard on the hands) to
> handle and does not scum over if left open to dry air.  I find the bees
> really like HFCS and do well.  However I've read that in tests it was
> slightly less attractive to the bees and also less 'hot' for stimulating
> buildup than sucrose syrup.
>
> I'm leary about HFCS for winter use since our bees are confined for long
> periods.  In caged bee tests cited by Currie,  longevity was reduced by
> about 1/3 -- as I recall -- and that would be enough to have our bees die
> just as the spring starts, since they are often confined for up to 5 or 6
> months.  In an area where other feed comes in to dilute it and the bees
> are able to fly more often, I doubt that this effect would be noticed, if
> it even exists in such conditions.
>
> More info about HFCS and inverts can be found in the logs.
>
> Allen
>
> ---
> Newsflash!  Visit http://www.beekeeping.co.nz/beel.htm
> to search BEE-L archives the easy, easy way or to
> update or change your subscription options.
> ---
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 25 Dec 1997 22:29:14 -0600
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Robert Barnett <bobbarnett@worldnet.att.net>
Subject:      Re: Reconditioning Hive Boxes
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: multipart/alternative;
              boundary="Next_Part_2965933754_783298_MS_Mac_IMN"
 
> THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does not understand
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  Birmingham,  Alabama  December 25, 1997
I think no one answered your request for info on problems in reconditioning
long stored hive equipment, and the risks therein putting them back into
use.   I will offer these thoughts:
1.  Mites...neither Tracheal nor Varroa  can survive for two weeks without
living bees, either larvae, pupae, or adult for over two weeks;  thus, you
are safe in using these boxes in this regard.
 
2.  Virus diseases.....virus organisms do not have themselves the complete
complement of intracellular systems that permit them to maintain life,
without occupying some living host cell(s), which possesses these missing
metabolic components, which it absolutely requires to remain viable.  Thus
the virus must be able to find  LIVING cells of a suitable type to survive.=
 
Thus,  these  hives will not, cannot,  transmit virus diseases to the
colonies you start.
 
3.  Bacterial diseases  (Amer.foul brood, European FB primarily):  These
exist in =B3spore form=B2 for years, even decades, until the right envirement
arrives (another colony of bees or suitable culture medium).    If either o=
f
these were the cause of the colony loss in your case, it could come back to
haunt you.  Most beekeepers treat their colonies prophylactically (I
believe) with terracycin which should offer good if not excellent
protection.    See last suggestion!
 
4. Fungus diseases.   Often only appear with =B3stress=B2, and for the most
part, clear spontaneously with no intervention and without colony loss;
these organisms do sporulate (leaving the *possibility* of recurrence), but
my personal estimate of this is very low risk.   I would not give this a
further thought.
 
5.  Nosema-  this tiny sporulating one cell organism makes colonies struggl=
e
especially in the winter months, and more with prolonged restriction of the
colony to the hive.  It is a gastroenteritis of bees, causing diarrhea by
which further spread occurs;  it can be also prophylactically treated with
Fumadil-B in fall, spring or both.  Here in the South, this is only a small
problem;  I will not try to speak for any other location, but I would not
let this discourage me from using the old comb you have.
 
6.   Being tucked away in an old barn loft might have allowed extensive
physical comb damage from wax moth, or mice, which might require its
sacrifice due to its poor structural quality.  I  do not think a judgment
about this can be made without looking at the comb.  Is there an experience=
d
beekeeper available to help you?   Remember all of us have some less than
perfect, or even undesirable comb, in our hives,  which will be selectively
replaced annually at least in part.
 
7.  After too much rambling,  and assuming that you chose to use the
equipment described, I do recommend this.   Clean with hive tool the wooden
frame(s) as well as possible of burr comb, other extraneous material, and
propolis, and using a portable propane torch, scorch the wood, all the
surfaces that can be done without damage to the comb.  Also,  clean the
inside, top and bottom edge surfaces of the boxes, and scorch them to a
toasty tan-light brown.  This will raise the temperature of the inner wood
surfaces, at least to a depth of 2-3 mm, well above that required to kill
MOST of the infectious organisms that might be there.  I do not believe
there is a soap, chemical disinfectant, or other  means of reducing
infection risk to a new colony.
 
**Just at this moment an answer comes to you from Fiji, suggesting boiling
in paraffin.  I offer this:  The boiling point of paraffin is well below
that of water, and may be insufficient to kill spores, which are very tough=
,
and can sustain long periods of most harsh envirement.  I may however, seal
these spores away from the brood, and indeed the colony reconditioned by
this means may have well survived.   CAUTION:  Paraffin, like bees wax is
very flammable, and should never be "boiled" for fear of breaking into
flame.  Also, the cost of enough paraffin to boil a box seems to me would b=
e
exorbitant.  some beekeepers past have boiled equipment in a lye/water,
which will kill the spores (and digest the wooden equipment.  Good luck,
Jerry!
 
----------
> From: Jerry Scott <jscott2@tandy.com>
> To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU
> Subject: Reconditioning Hive Boxes
> Date: Wed, 24 Dec 97 15:00:15 +0000
 
>Hi,
>        I managed to be given a bunch of brood boxes and supers with
>frames from a friend of a friend who stopped doing bee's several years
>ago.  These boxes and frames have been barn loft kept for several years.
>        I thought it would be save to use them because the wood is all
>still in really good shape.  I was going to wash them and then repaint
>them (just the outside of the box not the inside of the boxes, did read
>that in a book).
>        My question is:  Since I don't know the guy who owned these
>boxes and why he stop keeping bee's (ie: did they all die off), is there
>anything else I should be concerned about or do with these boxes before
>using them.  I didn't know if any germs or mite treatment to the wood
>should be done, other than washing them.  Which bring up, I was just
>going to use dish soap in water to wash them, like I would wash my car.
>Should I use some special Bee soap (if anything like that exists.
 
>Jerry Scott
>jscott2@tandy.com
 
 
 
--Next_Part_2965933754_783298_MS_Mac_IMN
Content-type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
 
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Re: Reconditioning Hive Boxes</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY BGCOLOR=3D"#FFFFFF">
  Birmingham,  Alabama  December 25, 1997                                       <BR>
I think no one answered your request for info on problems in reconditioning=
 long stored hive equipment, and the risks therein putting them back into us=
e.   I will offer these thoughts:<BR>
1.  Mites...neither Tracheal nor Varroa  can survive for two weeks without =
living bees, either larvae, pupae, or adult for over two weeks;  thus, you a=
re safe in using these boxes in this regard.<BR>
<BR>
2.  Virus diseases.....virus organisms do not have themselves the complete =
complement of intracellular systems that permit them to maintain life, witho=
ut occupying some living host cell(s), which possesses these missing metabol=
ic components, which it absolutely requires to remain viable.  Thus the viru=
s must be able to find  LIVING cells of a suitable type to survive.  Thus,  =
these  hives will not, cannot,  transmit virus diseases to the colonies you =
start.<BR>
<BR>
3.  Bacterial diseases  (Amer.foul brood, European FB primarily):  These ex=
ist in =B3spore form=B2 for years, even decades, until the right envirement arri=
ves (another colony of bees or suitable culture medium).    If either of the=
se were the cause of the colony loss in your case, it could come back to hau=
nt you.  Most beekeepers treat their colonies prophylactically (I believe) w=
ith terracycin which should offer good if not excellent protection.    See l=
ast suggestion!<BR>
<BR>
4. Fungus diseases.   Often only appear with =B3stress=B2, and for the most par=
t, clear spontaneously with no intervention and without colony loss;  these =
organisms do sporulate (leaving the *possibility* of recurrence), but my per=
sonal estimate of this is very low risk.   I would not give this a further t=
hought.<BR>
<BR>
5.  Nosema-  this tiny sporulating one cell organism makes colonies struggl=
e especially in the winter months, and more with prolonged restriction of th=
e colony to the hive.  It is a gastroenteritis of bees, causing diarrhea by =
which further spread occurs;  it can be also prophylactically treated with F=
umadil-B in fall, spring or both.  Here in the South, this is only a small p=
roblem;  I will not try to speak for any other location, but I would not let=
 this discourage me from using the old comb you have.<BR>
<BR>
6.   Being tucked away in an old barn loft might have allowed extensive phy=
sical comb damage from wax moth, or mice, which might require its sacrifice =
due to its poor structural quality.  I  do not think a judgment about this c=
an be made without looking at the comb.  Is there an experienced beekeeper a=
vailable to help you?   Remember all of us have some less than perfect, or e=
ven undesirable comb, in our hives,  which will be selectively replaced annu=
ally at least in part.<BR>
 <BR>
7.  After too much rambling,  and assuming that you chose to use the equipm=
ent described, I do recommend this.   Clean with hive tool the wooden frame(=
s) as well as possible of burr comb, other extraneous material, and propolis=
, and using a portable propane torch, scorch the wood, all the surfaces that=
 can be done without damage to the comb.  Also,  clean the inside, top and b=
ottom edge surfaces of the boxes, and scorch them to a toasty tan-light brow=
n.  This will raise the temperature of the inner wood surfaces, at least to =
a depth of 2-3 mm, well above that required to kill MOST of the infectious o=
rganisms that might be there.  I do not believe there is a soap, chemical di=
sinfectant, or other  means of reducing infection risk to a new colony.<BR>
<BR>
**Just at this moment an answer comes to you from Fiji, suggesting boiling =
in paraffin.  I offer this:  The boiling point of paraffin is well below tha=
t of water, and may be insufficient to kill spores, which are very tough, an=
d can sustain long periods of most harsh envirement.  I may however, seal th=
ese spores away from the brood, and indeed the colony reconditioned by this =
means may have well survived.   CAUTION:  Paraffin, like bees wax is very fl=
ammable, and should never be "boiled" for fear of breaking into flame.  Also=
, the cost of enough paraffin to boil a box seems to me would be exorbitant.=
  some beekeepers past have boiled equipment in a lye/water, which will kill=
 the spores (and digest the wooden equipment.  Good luck, Jerry!<BR>
<BR>
----------<BR>
> From: Jerry Scott <jscott2@tandy.com> <BR>
> To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU <BR>
> Subject: Reconditioning Hive Boxes <BR>
> Date: Wed, 24 Dec 97 15:00:15 +0000 <BR>
<BR>
>Hi,<BR>
>        I managed to be given a bunch of brood boxes and supers with<BR>
>frames from a friend of a friend who stopped doing bee's several years<BR>
>ago.  These boxes and frames have been barn loft kept for several years.<B=
R>
>        I thought it would be save to use them because the wood is all<BR>
>still in really good shape.  I was going to wash them and then repaint<BR>
>them (just the outside of the box not the inside of the boxes, did read<BR=
>
>that in a book).<BR>
>        My question is:  Since I don't know the guy who owned these<BR>
>boxes and why he stop keeping bee's (ie: did they all die off), is there<B=
R>
>anything else I should be concerned about or do with these boxes before<BR=
>
>using them.  I didn't know if any germs or mite treatment to the wood<BR>
>should be done, other than washing them.  Which bring up, I was just<BR>
>going to use dish soap in water to wash them, like I would wash my car.<BR=
>
>Should I use some special Bee soap (if anything like that exists.<BR>
<BR>
>Jerry Scott<BR>
>jscott2@tandy.com<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</BODY>
</HTML>
 
--Next_Part_2965933754_783298_MS_Mac_IMN--
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 26 Dec 1997 09:48:06 -0600
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Martin Braunstein <malka@webnet.com.ar>
Subject:      Re: WINTER FEEDING
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
 
Hello Andy Nachbaur and Allen Dick!
 
Andy:
I appreciate your effort to convince me about the advantages of HFCS over
sugar syrup, but if you read my first post about this matter you could have
noticed that I also think  HFCS is cheaper and better at least given the
market conditions of sweeteners in the USA.
 
"Hi Jim,
 
I would suggest you to try the following syrup recipe (although it would be
easier and cheaper to feed Type 55 HFCS ).The quantities are measured in
kilograms and liters. Bear in mind that one kilogram is equivalent ot 2.2
lbs. And that a gallon (four quarts) is equal to 3.78 liters."
 
The reason why I suggested the use of tartaric acid was because a
particular beekeeper located in the coastal area of Virginia asked for
references about sugar feeding, I
encouraged him to use Type 55 HFCS and only in second place sugar syrup
inverted with tartaric acid. Had you read my first post you could have
saved at least part of the precious minutes you invested in your reply.
 
I have three years of experience working for American queen breeders both
in California and southeast Georgia, so as you imagine I am absolutely
familiar with different kinds of artificial feeding from Drivert to HFCS.
 
Allen:
In spite of my three years working in the US, there are still some
idiomatic expressions that I can't quite understand. Could you please
clarify what you meant by KNOCK YOURSELF OUT.
 
 
 
Martin Braunstein
Malka Cabania Apicola
e-mail: malka@webnet.com.ar
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 26 Dec 1997 09:18:47 +0000
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Murray McGregor <murray@denrosa.demon.co.uk>
Subject:      Re: Reconditioning Hive Boxes
In-Reply-To:  <892BD172EE61D11199BB0080D87004A70992E2@ntmaile.tandy.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
 
In article <892BD172EE61D11199BB0080D87004A70992E2@ntmaile.tandy.com>,
Jerry Scott <jscott2@tandy.com> writes
>Hi,
>        I wanted to bound this off all of you since I really don't know
>what I'm doing yet.
>        I managed to be given a bunch of brood boxes and supers with
>frames from a friend of a friend who stopped doing bee's several years
>ago.  These boxes and frames have been barn loft kept for several years.
>        I thought it would be save to use them because the wood is all
>still in really good shape.  I was going to wash them and then repaint
>them (just the outside of the box not the inside of the boxes, did read
>that in a book).
>        My question is:  Since I don't know the guy who owned these
>boxes and why he stop keeping bee's (ie: did they all die off), is there
>anything else I should be concerned about or do with these boxes before
>using them.  I didn't know if any germs or mite treatment to the wood
>should be done, other than washing them.  Which bring up, I was just
>going to use dish soap in water to wash them, like I would wash my car.
>Should I use some special Bee soap (if anything like that exists.
>        Any opinions would be helpful and really appreciated.
>
>Thanks to all and Merry Christmas.
>
>Jerry Scott
>jscott2@tandy.com
 
Dear Jerry
 
I would just like to re-inforce Bob Barnett's instructive posting.
 
In the past we have bought second hand equipment and treated it broadly
in the manner described, with no adverse results. On one occassion
several years ago (the situation was similar sounding to yours), the guy
had more or less given up, and most of his equipment had just been
stored in a barn. It was an incredible mess, with few combs left intact
after the activities of the wax moths. I was a bit strapped for cash at
the time and could not afford the large numbers of new frames that were
needed to replace them, and those in the boxes were in very mixed
condition, some fine but some heavily scarred with the cocoons of
greater and lesser wax moths, some of which had even made holes right
through the wood.
 
We cut out any remaining wax, scraped the frames and interiors of all
the boxes clean, and then flame torched the lot, as Bob says, till its
just browning. No need to char it at all, just a good toasting. We wire
brushed the outsides and gave them a fresh couple of coats of paint,
stencilled them, rewaxed the frames, put the whole lot into service, and
never had any trouble.
 
Nowadays I would probably not begin such an undertaking with messy
frames, because the work involved and risks of recovery should really be
balanced against the cost of buying new. In the US new frames are cheap
and, if you can afford it, we would probably recommend new frames in the
sterilised and recycled old boxes. However, it shows it can be done
using the old frames, and if that is your chosen option it should be OK.
If the frames have been stored away without wax then a quick toast will
probably be all they will need.
 
Good luck
 
Murray
--
Murray McGregor, Denrosa Ltd., Scotland
murray@denrosa.demon.co.uk
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 26 Dec 1997 09:34:49 -0600
Reply-To:     allend@internode.net
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Comments:     Authenticated sender is <allend@mail.internode.net>
From:         Allen Dick <allend@internode.net>
Subject:      Re: WINTER FEEDING
In-Reply-To:  <12395245720272@systronix.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
 
I suppose I owe you an apology, Martin.  For some reason my mail reader
suppresses your posts because it finds them to have a header problem and
only gives them to me when I think to re-load new mail -- and then only
then under a heading 'Bad Message'.  For that reason, I have been
responding usually to other people's quotes of what you are saying rather
than to you, and only read your posts later.  I know my responses seem
a little out of touch with the flow of conversation for that reason.
Anyhow...
 
What I find curious about this whole question about tartaric acid is that
no one has shown here that using it does in fact result in any
actual practical improvement over not using it.
 
I *know* what the old books say, but has anyone shown in side by side
controlled tests that the bees actually do any better with tartaric
acid added?  If so, I want to hear it.
 
I know that the first year I used HFCS, I got about twice my normal crop,
but it turned out that everyone did -- it was just one of those fantastic
years that comes along every twenty years or so, but my tendancy was to
(wrongly?) attribute it to the powers of HFCS.
 
As for the energy that bees use converting sucrose syrup -- which is
central to the rationale behind the 'need' for helping them with
tartaric --  has anyone shown sucrose intake to be hard under bees in
*normal* conditions?
 
I know everyone *feels* that it is -- but don't bees normally go looking
for sucrose in flowers, and do quite nicely processing amounts as high as
30 pounds a day?  In fact, doesn't every beekeeper know that there is
nothing better for a hive of bees than a good long heavy honey flow?
(Assuming it is accompanied by some respectable pollen intake).
 
And as far as the question of sugar syrup crystalizing in the combs, I
have never seen this.  It just does not happen around here if the sugar is
fed during normal flying weather when the hive is capable of dealing with
the syrup and converting it into good stores and capping them.
 
As one astute writer pointed out here, what works in one area may not work
in another.  After having an episode that broke a lot of beekeepers and
killed a lot of bees -- and is likely still in court -- here in Western
Canada a while back, an episode where subsequent research pointed pH to be
a major villain in syrup inverted with the use of too much buffering acid,
I am pretty gun shy about acid additives and cavalier promotion of their
use.
 
When I see a study that shows tartaric acid 1.) does not shorten the
lives of bees and 2.) does some objective, measurable good, I'll jump
right on the bandwagon.
 
> In spite of my three years working in the US, there are still some
> idiomatic expressions that I can't quite understand. Could you please
> clarify what you meant by KNOCK YOURSELF OUT.
 
Well, I suppose it might mean different things in different areas, and I'm
sure it means something different in all caps (which I did not use) but
to my understanding and in my intent, it means "Suit yourself.  If you are
that 'gung ho', throw all caution to the winds and go right ahead.  But
don't say I didn't warn you."
 
Keep in mind, though -- as I indicated above -- it was not meant to be
directed to you.  You seem to know what you are doing.  It was directed
instead to the innocent and impressionable bystander who is looking for
excitement and might think tartaric acid is a great idea since, after all,
ordinary sugar in water is sooooo boring and predictably beneficial.
 
Regards,
 
Allen
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 26 Dec 1997 11:36:51 -0800
Reply-To:     brianmer@concentric.net
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Brian Merrill <brianmer@concentric.net>
Subject:      National Honey Board changes
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I have just received the following information from Joe Rowland, a
beekeeping colleague from upstate New York and he has asked me to=20
forward it to the list.  I beg the indulgence of all
the non-US beekeepers but this is in regards to a current debate within
the US beekeeping industry.  The information is in 3 parts; a cover
letter to the overall text, an editorial analysis of the legislation
proposed by ABF and lastly a form letter to be sent to Congressional
representatives.
=20
Brian Merrill
Ellie Bee Apiaries
61 Calumet St., Depew, NY  14043
=20
part 1 starts here;
=20
December 18th, 1997
=20
re: Proposed Honey Board Expansion
=20
Dear Mr./Mrs. Beekeeper,
=20
I=92d like to ask you to take a few minutes of your valuable time to read
an editorial analysis of the legislation presently pending in Congress
that would expand and change the structure and powers of the National
Honey Board.  It was written by Joe Rowland, who after graduating from
Cornell University College of Agriculture in 1973, worked for beekeepers
across the United States (Dave Powell - CA, Charlie Zollinger - UT, Dave
Howland - NY).  For the past 20 years he has operated his own 300 colony
apiary in upstate New York.
=20
After a recent hard look at the legislation, Joe wrote this editorial
with the hope of galvanizing beekeeper opposition to it.  This bill, if
passed in Congress and approved in a referendum will:
=20
        1) Cost you a bundle;
        2) Tip control of the National Honey Board over to the big honey
           packer=92s & importer=92s interests, possibly permanently;
        3) Benefit large honey packers & importers hugely while
           benefiting American beekeepers only slightly, if at all;
        4) Add more cumbersome rules & regulations to your life.
=20
If after reading it, you disagree, please circular file immediately.
Conversely, if you generally think it darn close to the mark, I ask that
you please do the following:
=20
        1) Make 10 copies of this cover letter and the article.
 
        2) Send these copies to 10 beekeepers that you know or know of
           that might be interested in a different view from what we=92ve
           been seeing in the beekeeping publications.  Out of state=20
           contacts are especially good.
 
        3) Immediately contact your Congressional representatives and
           ask that this legislation not be inserted into the
           Agricultural Research Bill (S1150 in the Senate;=20
           HB2534 in the House) and briefly tell them why you think=20
           it is a bad bill for beekeepers.  To reach your=20
           Congressman=92s office, call 202-225-3121 for the capital
           switchboard.  To reach your Senator=92s office, call
           202-224-3121.
 
If we all pull together on this right away the majority of American
beekeepers could see this take action in a few weeks.  This legislation
has major implications for us all.  Let=92s grab this bull by the horns
and advocate for our own interests at this critical point.  Your future
is in your hands.
 
part 2 start here;
=20
                            The 2 CENT BOARD
 
                         A Beekeeper=92s Assessment
=20
If enacted, the proposed revisions to the Honey Research, Promotion, and
Consumer Information Act will double the assessment on honey from 1 to 2
cents per pound, dramatically alter the Industry representation on the
National Honey Board, and expand the mandate of the Honey Board beyond
generic honey promotion to encompass quality control issues, and
research funding.  Contrary to misinformation being distributed by the
American Beekeeping Federation on behalf of the National Honey Packers
and Dealers Association and Sioux Honey Association, the proposed
legislation is not in the best interests of American beekeepers and in
fact would work against their interests.  The main beneficiaries would
be large honey packers, importers, and some large producers.  These
groups are vigorously promoting the proposed legislation at beekeeper
meetings and through paid advertising in the apicultural trade
magazines.
=20
                          The Assessment (Section 7.9)
=20
Many beekeepers don=92t believe that the additional assessment on their
production will be paid for by the packer who purchases their honey.  In
fact, the additional assessment will be paid for by the beekeeper in the
form of a lower offering price from the packer.  In the present weak
wholesale honey market, this is a very likely scenario.  Combine this
situation with the advertising credit provisions of the proposed
legislation (Sec 9j), where 50% of the so-called packer assessment may
be used to offset 50% of their advertising expense, and the American
beekeeper will, in effect, be subsidizing large honey packer advertising
budgets!
=20
One stated purpose of the proposed legislation (Sec 2.4b 2A) is, =93to
maintain and expand the markets for all honey and honey products in a
manner that is not designed to maintain or expand any individual
producer=92s, importer=92s or handler=92s share of the market=94.  The
additional assessment coupled with the advertising credit contradicts
this purpose by favoring those large packers who will have advertising
costs dramatically reduced while smaller producer/packers who cannot
afford an advertising budget will pay the full assessment (passed on, of
course, in either case to the beekeeper).  A few large packers will
thereby gain a competitive advantage over the vast majority of small
producer/packers who pack and market a portion of their production.
 
              National Honey Board Reconstitution (Section 7)
 
The proposed legislation significantly re-aligns the Honey Board by
adding two (2) packer representatives and eliminating the public member
seat.  The new set-up would be 7 producers, 4 packers, 2 importers, and
1 seat representing a major inter-regional cooperative, i.e. Sioux
Honey.  All of the non-producers (packers, importers, coop, etc.) will
tend to have priorities that will favor large packer interests.  Most
imported honey flows through the large packers and the inter-regional
cooperative which is functionally a large packer.  At least one of the
producer-reps would be likely to tilt toward the packer viewpoint as
some are closely associated with packers.  What we will then have is a
packer-controlled Honey Board which is absolutely not in the best
interests of the vast majority of small to medium sized producers and
producer/packers.  Most beekeepers I=92ve discussed this with are in
agreement on this.
=20
                     Re-Reconstitution?  (Section 7)
 
Even more alarming is the likelihood that large packer-importer
interests would have outright control after 5 years.  This is possible
because the proposed legislation (Sec 7b4) provides for a reconstitution
of the representation based on, =93the geographic distribution of the
quantities of domestically produced honey assessed..., and changes in
the annual average percentage of assessments owed by importers...,
relative to assessments owed by producers and handlers of domestic
honey...=94.  If these proportions are found to vary by more than 6% from=
,
=93the base period proportions,... (1996 fiscal year of the Honey Board)=94=
,
then the make-up of the Honey Board will again be re-aligned to reflect
the more recent proportions.  I believe import assessments were
relatively low in fiscal 96 relative to producer assessments.  The world
honey market was very tight then and the Chinese had cut back
dramatically on exports to the US.  Imports have surged upward in 97 and
domestic production is down significantly this year.  Also, as domestic
consumption continues to increase, those increases will be provided for
not by domestic production, but by increased importation.  When
=93reconstitution=94 time arrives, producer representation will decrease =
and
large packer interests will unequivocally come to control the Honey
Board.
=20
                      Quality Control (Section 8)
 
Another provision of the proposed legislation (Sec 8e9) concerns the
creation of a, =93Voluntary Quality Program=94.  There will be, =93the
establishment of an official Honey Board =91Seal of Approval=92 to be
display on honey and honey products of producers, handlers, and
importers participating in the voluntary program found to meet such
standards of purity as may be established=94.  This would entail, =93acti=
ons
to encourage producers, handlers, and importers to participate in the
program; actions to encourage consumers to purchase honey and honey
products bearing the official seal of approval; periodic inspections by
the Secretary, or other parties approved by the Secretary, of honey and
honey products of producers, handlers, and importers participating,
etc...=94.    Again this is in conflict with the stated intent and
purposes of the proposed legislation (Sec 2, 4b2A) in that it will
effectively favor those who comply with the, as yet unestablished,
standards of purity.  What might those standards be?  Will those
standards promote ultra-filtration, pasteurization, or other processing
techniques available only to the largest packers?  Would these standards
pander to large packers who could then brandish their =91official seal of
approval=92 in efforts to increase their market share?  A lot of smaller
packers and beekeepers think the answer to that question is yes.  Our
customers know us and know that we sell a =93quality=94 product already. =
 We
don=92t want to pay an assessment to support a promotional vehicle which
will likely be beyond our reach and that raises big packer sales and
profits at our expense.
=20
                          Adulteration (Section 8)
 
The Honey Board would be authorized to develop, =93recommendations for
programs and rules and regulations... regarding purity standards for
honey and honey products...  Any program, rule, or regulation issued...
may provide for the inspection... of honey and honey products=94.  At a
glance this seems quite reasonable since virtually all beekeepers are
opposed to the adulteration of honey.  This is a much bigger problem for
large packers and importers who obtain their honey from the world
marketplace than it is for a smaller packer or producer who generally is
familiar with the source of his/her honey and is confident of its
purity.  Not surprisingly, twice (2X) as much of our assessment funding
($1,000,000.00) is earmarked for adulteration research/quality control
than is budgeted for beekeeping research ($500,000.00) which will help
keep domestic producers viable.  Should American beekeepers pay for
this?  The responsibility to protect the purity and quality of the
nation=92s food supply is expressly the duty of the FDA.  I think they
should do that job through public funding for the public good.  More
testing of imported honey is needed and the FDA is well suited to do
that in the public interest.
 
                          Research (Section 7)
 
The proposed legislation recommends that 8% of collected assessments be
designated for, =93approved research projects designed to advance the cos=
t
effectiveness, competitiveness, efficiency, pest and disease control,
and other management aspects of beekeeping and honey production.=94  That
sounds great, but in fact is a poor value for beekeepers.  The
approximately 1/2 million dollars raised will not go very far and is in
fact a small splash in the national research bucket for apiculture.
Eight (8) cents of the assessment dollar will be spent on research that
beekeepers might support (or not!) and ninety two (92) cents will be
spent to protect and promote packer/importer interest on the newly
restructured Honey Board.  Does this make sense for beekeepers?  More
research funding is desperately needed, especially in the search for and
registration of cost-effective, low-hazard mite controls.  However in
the context of the overwhelmingly packer-friendly legislation, its main
purpose is to provide smoke and mirrors necessary to win beekeeper
support.
 
                    The Referendum and the Bottom Line
 
The proposed revisions to the Honey Research, Promotion, and Consumer
Information Act will benefit large honey packing interests in several
ways while providing a minimum of benefit to the beekeepers who will pay
for it.  Even the referendum process itself will give the large packer
an advantage.  Every eligible assessment-paying voter has only one vote
that is worth one unit and another vote which is weighted by the size of
the assessment paid.  Both types of vote are tallied separately and both
totals must exceed 50% in order to approve the referendum.  A packer who
imports would receive 2 voting units for each pound of honey handled.
The same is true for a packer who is also a producer.  Remember that 15
packers handle 50% of the honey packed in the USA.  If, in effect, the
packers are passing their assessment on to the beekeepers through a
lower offered price, then the beekeepers are paying for part of the
packer=92s weighted vote!  Will they (the packers) use that vote (paid fo=
r
by you) to their benefit or the beekeepers?  Will your assessment be
spent in a way that benefits your business and justifies what amounts to
an income tax of several percent on your profits?  Remember that the
Honey Board assessment comes right off the top and as your profit margin
per pound narrows due to lower offered prices, your Honey Board =93Income
Tax=94 escalates.  In a weak market can you afford to double this tax whe=
n
your tangible return is minimal?
 
                        The Time for Action
 
Beekeepers need to contact their Congressional representatives and tell
them what they think about this legislation immediately.  I think that
bigger is not necessarily better for the Honey Board, that producers
should clearly control the Honey Board, and that the American Beekeeping
Federation is not speaking for a majority of American beekeepers when
they promote these proposed revisions to the Honey Research, Promotion,
and Consumer Information Act.  I also believe that we need to talk to
our beekeeping friends and others with the aim of mounting a grassroots
effort to block this legislation before it becomes law and goes to the
referendum stage.  If it should go to referendum we will have to defeat
it there, and we can expect a long and bitter struggle in the process.
The time to act is now!
=20
part 3 starts here;
 
Dear Sir:
 
I=92m writing today in regard to proposed legislation, The Honey Research=
,
Promotion, and Consumer Information Act, that is being considered for
inclusion in S1150 (HB2534), The Agricultural Research Bill.
 
The proposed legislation works against American beekeeper interests in
many ways and promotes the interest of large honey packers and
importers.  Inclusion and approval of the Act will ultimately promote
increased imports of honey effecting balance of trade, and reduce the
viability of domestic producers.  I am strongly opposed to the insertion
of this Act into the Agricultural Research Bill.  Please refer to the
enclosed editorial analysis of the Act for more in-depth information
regarding its contents.
 
American beekeepers provide pollination services, paid and unpaid, to
large sectors of American agriculture.  Their continued economic
vitality is already under siege by bee diseases, pesticide damage, a
weak world honey market, increasing expenses, and creeping urbanization
of former agricultural areas.
 
The value of honey bee pollinated food and fiber runs into billions of
dollars and is therefore of importance to many sectors of agriculture
and the nation=92s food supply.  The general public interest is thus
served by a vigorous domestic beekeeping industry.
 
Please help American beekeepers block this damaging proposal from
becoming law.
 
Thanks in advance for your cooperation.
 
Best regard,
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 26 Dec 1997 12:32:28 -0500
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Ted Fischer <tvf@umich.edu>
Subject:      Re: HAPPY HOLIDAYS
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Ralph W. Harrison wrote:
>
> MERRY CHRISTMAS TO THE LIST FROM MILFORD, CONNECTICUT USA. WE ARE LOCATED ON
> LONG ISLAND SOUND WHERE THIS CHRISTMAS MORNING IT IS 40 DEGREES AND RAINING.
 
And a somewhat belated Christmas wish to all from us at Dexter,
Michigan, where we likewise had pouring rain on Christmas eve.  Hope
this strange weather doesn't confuse the bees too much.
 
Ted Fischer
Dexter, Michigan, USA
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Date:         Fri, 26 Dec 1997 12:57:41 -0500
Reply-To:     dronebee@norfolk.infi.net
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" <dronebee@norfolk.infi.net>
Organization: Independent non-profit research
Subject:      Re: Funny smoker fuels
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Hi All:
The very best and happiest wishes for all during the holidays.
 
I use (when I can get them) tobacco stems to burn in my smoker to "knock
down" mites.
Placing a sticky sheet on the bottom floor and then smoking the bees with
this type of "fuel" a significant number of mites can be removed from the
population.  This can be utilized as a "test" for the presence of mites.
HOWEVER, beware, since the absence of mites does not mean that there
aren't any, it just means that they did not get knocked down by the
tobacco smoke!
Just a thought!
Best regards.
Dr. Rodriguez
Virginia Beach, VA
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 26 Dec 1997 13:52:44 -0600
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Richard E Leber <ricks.toy@juno.com>
Subject:      Re: wax
Comments: To: gmc@vci.net
 
Hi Jonathan and Ya'll;
 
Joanthan asks: ..."also i was wondering if anybody new how to lighten,
dark colored wax ??"
 
For small quantities of darkened wax, the easiest and least expensive
method to lighted the color is repeated exposure in a solar wax melter,
the disadvantage is also the loss of fragrance.  If the wax was 'burned'
from excessive heating this method will have no effect.
 
Rick Leber, Beekeeping and Honey Production Since 1987
Mobile, Alabama
Ricks.Toy@juno.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 26 Dec 1997 15:20:57 -0500
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Ian Watson <realtor@niagara.com>
Subject:      sticky floor...
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Hi
 
Does anyone know how to get a significant amount of honey cleaned up?...
I found a bucket of honey had tipped over onto the concrete basement floor
covering an area of about 9 square feet (one square metre).  After turning the air
a lovely blue shade with every single curse I could remember, I used a dust pan
and an egg flipper (the need for speed prevented me from using anything better)
to scoop as much up as possible.  Now I just need to get rid of the remaining sticky
veneer of honey that's left.  I would prefer use the hose in the laundry tubs to wash it
down the floor drain, but there's too much "stuff" between the spill and the drain.
I thought of using "kitty litter", but I think that will just compound the problem.
So, I'm just wondering if anyone has had this same unfortunate thing happen and
discovered in doing so, some efficient method.
 
Thanks,
 
Ian Watson, thinking...Why the $@$^$%#$ did I ever get into Beekeeping?!?!?!?!!?...;)
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 26 Dec 1997 14:44:50 -0600
Reply-To:     cmichel@pbmo.net
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         "M. C. Michel" <snapshot@pbmo.net>
Organization: Snap Shot
Subject:      Re: WINTER FEEDING
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I usually stay out of the exchange of anecdotal name calling.  With
regard to this one, I do have a relevant authority to quote.  Last night
I was discussing the use of Tartaric acid for bees with my Father who
has a Doctors degree in Pharmacy.  It seems that the aforementioned acid
is well known for it's laxative properties.  Taken to excess it can be
described as DYSENTERY.
 
I have found the amount of anecdotal nonsense in our profession/hobby
is  rampant.  I have come to the conclusion over the years...
You can always tell when someone is a beekeeper...you just can't tell
him much
 
Chris Michel
Poplar Bluff, MO  USA
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Date:         Fri, 26 Dec 1997 16:01:15 EST
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Pollinator <Pollinator@aol.com>
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Subject:      Re: sticky floor...
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 97-12-26 15:21:56 EST, realtor@niagara.com (Ian Watson)
writes:
 
<< Now I just need to get rid of the remaining sticky
 veneer of honey that's left.  I would prefer use the hose in the laundry tubs
to wash it
 down the floor drain, but there's too much "stuff" between the spill and the
drain.
 I thought of using "kitty litter", but I think that will just compound the
problem.
 So, I'm just wondering if anyone has had this same unfortunate thing happen
and
 discovered in doing so, some efficient method. >>
 
   Hot water and a wet/dry shop vacuum work for us. We also use mops,
squeegees, and when there is wax involved, an ice scraper.  (Wish I had a
floor drain......)
 
Pollinator@aol.com     Dave Green  Hemingway, SC  USA
The Pollination Scene:  http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html
 
Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop    (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles)
http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm
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Date:         Fri, 26 Dec 1997 18:30:03 -0500
Reply-To:     dronebee@norfolk.infi.net
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" <dronebee@norfolk.infi.net>
Organization: Independent non-profit research
Subject:      Re: sticky floor...
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hi Ian:
Try a bucket of good old HOT water and good old industrial type mop.  Sounds like hard work,
but it does the job.
Best of wishes in the holiday season.
Best regards.
Dr. R.
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Date:         Fri, 26 Dec 1997 19:39:35 -0500
Reply-To:     dronebee@norfolk.infi.net
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" <dronebee@norfolk.infi.net>
Organization: Independent non-profit research
Subject:      Re: Supplemental Feeding of Honey Bees.
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Hi All.
Best of wishes during the holidays.
I have read with interest the ongoing thread about "feeding."
Some time back, I can't remember exactly when, I wrote to someone about this
subject.  I think that the answer was post on bee-L.  For those of you who read
it, please excuse my repetition and save the "flames."  I think that it is
rather important to bear in mind a couple of important factors on this subject.
1.  Bees have to "spend energy" to consume whatever is being fed to them.  That
is a
physiological requirement of all living things.  Hence, if bees are given a
"sugar solution"
it should be in proportions in which bees "spend" the least amount of energy to
digest and utilize that sugar fed.  As I said in my previous post, it has been
established that proportion to be about     :   EQUAL AMOUNTS  measure by
WEIGHT!
If excess water is fed, then the bees have to spend more energy to get rid of
the extra water. (On the other side of this consideration would be where the
bees are fed solid sugar.  The bees have to have water to dissolve the sugar, a
non-availability factor in temperate climates.)
2.  Other contributing factors to this scenario that adds "work" to the bees as
they consume the supplemental feed, should be considered carefully least we
defeat our purpose.  Needless to say, environmental and climatic conditions as
well as personal experience and preference will have some influence in different
parts of the world.
 
What we should not forget is that the formulation stated above has been proven
as soundand should not be altered.  Incidentally, I have used less water and
more sugar
successfully.  That is not too say, that I am contradicting myself.  Making the
solution closer to the consistency of honey, does not make the bees work any
more.
Best regards.
Dr. Rodriguez
Virginia Beach, VA
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 25 Dec 1997 11:12:18 +0000
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         "Malcolm (Tom) Sanford" <mts@GNV.IFAS.UFL.EDU>
Subject:      Fluvalinate in beeswax
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
 
From the pages of APIS, Volume 14, Number 8 August 1996
 
THE WORLD'S BEESWAX--FOULING THE COLLECTIVE NEST
 
Most beekeeping products are consumable items. They can be looked at as
transitory (i.e.
short-term assets on the beekeeping balance sheet). One, however, has
traditionally been in the
long- term asset category. This is beeswax, that marvelous substance only
the honey bee can
produce. Although it can be converted into other products (waxes,
cosmetics), a huge amount is
recycled by the beekeeping industry and given back to the industrious
insects that made it as
foundation for their nest.
 
Along with those of honey (see May and June 1996 APIS), beeswax prices have
escalated, though
not necessarily for the same reasons. In the February issue of BEE BIZ (No.
2, 1996, pp. 3), Editor
Matthew Allen analyzed this phenomenon. For many years, the market was
split. Top-quality wax
from Africa, the Americas and Australia was viewed differently than that of
the Far East, mostly
from China. The latter was often adulterated by paraffin and, thus,
restricted to polish and candle
use. The price differential between these two wax sources is now closing,
Mr. Allen concludes, as
demand for use in luxury items, confectionery and fancy food products
increases, and so the price
may remain high for some time. That's the good news. The bad news is that
the world's beeswax is
becoming more fouled each day, a tradeoff in controlling the Varroa mite.
 
Ever since beekeepers began using pesticides inside living bee colonies
(see December 1987 APIS),
there have been concerns voiced about colony contamination. Most had to do
with honey; these are
reduced considerably now with appropriate use of Apistan(R). Few, however,
considered the
possible effect of long- term widespread use of the contact pesticide
fluvalinate on the beeswax
supply.
 
No longer is this the case. Writing in the same issue of BEE BIZ as Mr.
Allen (p. 4) about the 1995
Apimondia meeting in Lausanne, Switzerland, Clive de Bruyn reported that
high residue levels of
fluvalinate have been found in beeswax. Because of the nature of the
molecule, he concluded, it
bonds with the wax, making it almost unremovable. The Australian Bee
Journal (quoted from June
1996 Bee Culture, p. 376) says virtually every kilogram of European wax is
contaminated, most
likely because of recycling fluvalinate-impregnated wax for foundation.
 
European beekeepers, therefore, are examining their beeswax more closely
than in the past, and not
using heavily contaminated product for foundation. Dr. Peter Rosenkranz,
University of Hohenheim
reported at the Fifth Ibero Latin American Beekeeping Congress in Mercedes,
Uruguay (June 1,
1996) that residues from two to 20 milligrams of fluvalinate per kilogram
of beeswax have been
found. He says these levels might be enough to cause pesticide resistance
to develop in Varroa. Mr.
de Bruyn says that so much resistance can already be seen in certain
districts of Italy, France and
Germany that beekeepers are being advised to abandon all pyrethroids
(chemical relatives of
fluvalinate) in favor of other chemicals.
 
If levels of fluvalinate get too high, might there not be concern that the
honey bees themselves will be
poisoned by the chemical designed to rid them of Varroa (see April 1992
APIS)? There is some
hope that beeswax from places that don't have Varroa would dilute the
worldwide supply, according
to the Australian Bee Journal, as referenced in Bee Culture. However, it
concludes that a return to
fluvalinate- free wax, would take an estimated fifty years, provided there
was no chemical usage for
that time period.
 =======================================================================
Dr. Malcolm (Tom) Sanford        Tel 352/392-1801 x 143
Extension Apiculturist           FAX 352/392-0190
University of Florida            E-mail: mts@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu
Bldg. 970, Box 110620
Gainesville, FL 32611-0620
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 =======================================================================
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 26 Dec 1997 20:40:19 -0500
Reply-To:     chestnic@CVN.ALBANY.EDU
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         "A. S. Chesnick" <chestnic@mail.cvn.net>
Organization: LPA
Subject:      Re: sticky floor...
MIME-Version: 1.0
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try a whole bunch of dry ice and an ice scraper
 
you get a cople bags or dry ice and cover the puddle of honey
go away for 15 minute or so and come back you will probilly have a nice fog effect over the
floor and the honey will be frozen then use the ice scraper to get the honey up
(or you could try liquid nitrogen :)
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 26 Dec 1997 22:14:45 -0500
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         John M Thorp <hallelujah.honey.co@juno.com>
Subject:      Reefer Madness
 
Greetings Ed &
List,                                                           Forget
a sackful,head for Australia and Garth can point you in the right
direction for what sounds like a truck load of smoker fuel. Wonder how
many eyebrows have been going up over this one?
Take Care and GBY,John in Homestead,also at<cfwc2@gil.net>
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 27 Dec 1997 10:53:41 GMT
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Computer Software Solutions Ltd <cssl@iol.ie>
Subject:      Second queen in hive
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
 
I have read an interesting booklet entitled 'A Simple Two-Queen System' by
Ron Brown dated December 1980.
 
He makes a point regarding introducing a queen in July August or September.
The beekeeper removes the old queen (possibly marked) and then introduces
the new queen. The next morning the new queen is found dead. What the
beekeeper did not know, was that the bees had superseded the old queen and
that she was still in the hive.
 
He does not give any procedure to attempt to find out if there is a second
queen in the hive. I would imagine she would be extremely difficult to find.
Presumably the beekeeper has missed the queen cells - difficult to understand.
 
Any ideas on the subject.
 
 
Sincerely
 
Tom Barrett
49 South Park
Foxrock
Dublin 18
Ireland
 
e mail: cssl@iol.ie
Location: Northern hemisphere
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 27 Dec 1997 10:24:45 +0300
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Carlos Aparicio <caparici@chasque.apc.org>
Subject:      Re: WINTER FEEDING
Comments: To: cmichel@pbmo.net
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At 02:44 PM 26/12/1997 -0600, M. C. Michel wrote:
>I usually stay out of the exchange of anecdotal name calling.  With
>regard to this one, I do have a relevant authority to quote.  Last night
>I was discussing the use of Tartaric acid for bees with my Father who
>has a Doctors degree in Pharmacy.  It seems that the aforementioned acid
>is well known for it's laxative properties.  Taken to excess it can be
>described as DYSENTERY.
>
Dear Michel:
 
        I used several times tartaric acid in formulations of mead, without
laxative results.
        The tartaric acid combined with sodium bicarbonate, on the other
hand, it is a known remedy that taken in given dose can be a powerful=
 laxative.
 
        Carlos Aparicio
 
*********************************
*                               *
*  Carlos Aparicio              *
*  Attorney at Law              *
*  Associate Professor          *
*  Facultad de Derecho          *
*  Universidad de la Rep=FAblica  *
*  Montevideo, 11200            *
*  Uruguay                      *
*  Phone (598-02) 401-4096      *
*  Fax   (598-02) 575-2961      *
*  caparici@chasque.apc.org     *
*                               *
*********************************
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 27 Dec 1997 09:00:22 -0500
Reply-To:     mpalmer@together.net
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Michael Palmer <mpalmer@together.net>
Organization: French Hill Apiaries
Subject:      Finding second queen in hive
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Tom Barrett wants to know how to find second queen when requeening.
Queen excluders work great! Nail an all wire excluder to the bottom of
an empty hive body. Knock hive down to bottom box. Remove combs with
bees, and lean them against next hive. Place excluder box on top of  now
empty hive. Slide E - Box over to leave opening large enough to put comb
back in hive. Now shake bees off first comb into E-Box, place comb back
into hive, and slide it back under E-Box with hive tool and thumb.
Procede with other combs until all 9 or 10 are shaken and back in hive
under E-Box. Slide E-Box back over hive. Shake all of remaining combs
into E-Box. Bees will go down through excluder and onto brood below.
This leaves queen (queens) and drones above excluder. Scrape inside of
E-Box with hive tool if bees try to climb out. This is an easy
procedure, and can be done by any novice. It works just about every
time. I've found two queens in about 5-10% of the colonies. Good luck!
Mike
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 27 Dec 1997 09:41:15 -0500
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         "Ralph W. Harrison" <HarrisonRW@aol.com>
Subject:      West Sussex Beekeepers
 
If there is any member of the West Sussex  (England) Beekeepers Association
that subscribe to the list would you be kind enough to conatct me.
 
Thanks,
Ralph Harrison
Milford, CT U.S.A.
HarrisonRW@aol.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 27 Dec 1997 14:54:41 +0200
Reply-To:     jtemp@xs4all.nl
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Jan Tempelman <jtemp@xs4all.nl>
Organization: Home
Subject:      Re: Fluvalinate in beeswax
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Using the drone method will help!!!!
see http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/dronemethod.html
 
the labeling of the honey jar can be:
 
This honey is produced without any contact with pesticide
All controll of bee-mites, are doing bio-technical.
 
greeting, jan.
 
Malcolm (Tom) Sanford wrote:
 
> >From the pages of APIS, Volume 14, Number 8 August 1996
>
> THE WORLD'S BEESWAX--FOULING THE COLLECTIVE NEST
>
> Most beekeeping products are consumable items. They can be looked at as
> transitory (i.e.
> short-term assets on the beekeeping balance sheet). One, however, has
> traditionally been in the
> long- term asset category. This is beeswax, that marvelous substance on=
ly
> the honey bee can
> produce. Although it can be converted into other products (waxes,
> cosmetics), a huge amount is
> recycled by the beekeeping industry and given back to the industrious
> insects that made it as
> foundation for their nest.
>
> Along with those of honey (see May and June 1996 APIS), beeswax prices =
have
> escalated, though
> not necessarily for the same reasons. In the February issue of BEE BIZ =
(No.
> 2, 1996, pp. 3), Editor
> Matthew Allen analyzed this phenomenon. For many years, the market was
> split. Top-quality wax
> from Africa, the Americas and Australia was viewed differently than tha=
t of
> the Far East, mostly
> from China. The latter was often adulterated by paraffin and, thus,
> restricted to polish and candle
> use. The price differential between these two wax sources is now closin=
g,
> Mr. Allen concludes, as
> demand for use in luxury items, confectionery and fancy food products
> increases, and so the price
> may remain high for some time. That's the good news. The bad news is th=
at
> the world's beeswax is
> becoming more fouled each day, a tradeoff in controlling the Varroa mit=
e.
>
> Ever since beekeepers began using pesticides inside living bee colonies
> (see December 1987 APIS),
> there have been concerns voiced about colony contamination. Most had to=
 do
> with honey; these are
> reduced considerably now with appropriate use of Apistan(R). Few, howev=
er,
> considered the
> possible effect of long- term widespread use of the contact pesticide
> fluvalinate on the beeswax
> supply.
>
> No longer is this the case. Writing in the same issue of BEE BIZ as Mr.
> Allen (p. 4) about the 1995
> Apimondia meeting in Lausanne, Switzerland, Clive de Bruyn reported tha=
t
> high residue levels of
> fluvalinate have been found in beeswax. Because of the nature of the
> molecule, he concluded, it
> bonds with the wax, making it almost unremovable. The Australian Bee
> Journal (quoted from June
> 1996 Bee Culture, p. 376) says virtually every kilogram of European wax=
 is
> contaminated, most
> likely because of recycling fluvalinate-impregnated wax for foundation.
>
> European beekeepers, therefore, are examining their beeswax more closel=
y
> than in the past, and not
> using heavily contaminated product for foundation. Dr. Peter Rosenkranz=
,
> University of Hohenheim
> reported at the Fifth Ibero Latin American Beekeeping Congress in Merce=
des,
> Uruguay (June 1,
> 1996) that residues from two to 20 milligrams of fluvalinate per kilogr=
am
> of beeswax have been
> found. He says these levels might be enough to cause pesticide resistan=
ce
> to develop in Varroa. Mr.
> de Bruyn says that so much resistance can already be seen in certain
> districts of Italy, France and
> Germany that beekeepers are being advised to abandon all pyrethroids
> (chemical relatives of
> fluvalinate) in favor of other chemicals.
>
> If levels of fluvalinate get too high, might there not be concern that =
the
> honey bees themselves will be
> poisoned by the chemical designed to rid them of Varroa (see April 1992
> APIS)? There is some
> hope that beeswax from places that don't have Varroa would dilute the
> worldwide supply, according
> to the Australian Bee Journal, as referenced in Bee Culture. However, i=
t
> concludes that a return to
> fluvalinate- free wax, would take an estimated fifty years, provided th=
ere
> was no chemical usage for
> that time period.
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> Dr. Malcolm (Tom) Sanford        Tel 352/392-1801 x 143
> Extension Apiculturist           FAX 352/392-0190
> University of Florida            E-mail: mts@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu
> Bldg. 970, Box 110620
> Gainesville, FL 32611-0620
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------=
-
> Publisher of APIS on the web--
> http://www.ifas.ufl.edu/~mts/apishtm/apis.htm
> To subscribe to the monthly newsletter as it comes out,send a message t=
o
> listserv@lists.ufl.edu
> In the first line of the message body enter:
> Subscribe Apis-L Your first name Your last name
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
 
 
--
=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=
=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=
=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0
Jan Tempelman / Ineke Drabbe     |     EMAIL:jtemp@xs4all.nl
Sterremos 16               3069 AS Rotterdam, The Netherlands
Tel/Fax (SOMETIMES) XX 31 (0)10-4569412
http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/index3.html
=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=
=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=
=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 27 Dec 1997 12:39:40 -0600
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Paul Bashore <silvrfox@oklahoma.net>
Subject:      Re: Reconditioning Hive Boxes
In-Reply-To:  <34A3030A.8DAA7142@suva.is.com.fj>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
 
At 01:06 PM 12/26/97 +1200, you wrote:
>Hello Jerry,
>I just here a story about a beekeeper who bought a large number of hives
>that where diseased by American Foul Brood. To kill off all of the spoors in
>the wood he built a vat that would hold some of the boxes then boiled them
>in paraffin to sterilize them. He then set them up with bees in an isolated
>apiary for a couple of years as in quarantine. The hives remained free of
>AFB.
>
>Regards,
>
>
>John Lewis
>Fiji
>
>Jerry Scott wrote:
>
>>         My question is:  Since I don't know the guy who owned these
>> boxes and why he stop keeping bee's (ie: did they all die off), is there
>> anything else I should be concerned about or do with these boxes before
>> using them.  I didn't know if any germs or mite treatment to the wood
>> should be done, other than washing them.  Which bring up, I was just
>> going to use dish soap in water to wash them, like I would wash my car.
>> Should I use some special Bee soap (if anything like that exists.
>>         Any opinions would be helpful and really appreciated
 
 
Another way is to scorch them with a tourch.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 27 Dec 1997 17:15:48 -0500
Reply-To:     dronebee@norfolk.infi.net
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" <dronebee@norfolk.infi.net>
Organization: Independent non-profit research
Subject:      Re: Reconditioning Hive Boxes
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Hi.  Merry holidays to all.
 
I do not recall off hand any specific titles and/or  authors but there are many
available on how to process equipment that may have contained AFB infected bees.
1.  Ass pointed out, scorching is one of those listed.
2.  Immersing in boiling water and lye solution is another.
3.  My preferred recommendation: Do not fool around! Buy new equipment and save
time, a lot of hard work and possibly heartache and disappointment.  This disease
is caused by
a germ which forms spores (a capsule that protects the germ); hence, becoming
very resistant to treatment, or to to what amounts to the same thing, difficult
to eliminate.  Should one miss any of these spores, it is bound to result in an
outbreak sooner or later.
I would rather go for never by not taking risks with contaminated equipment!
Best regards.
Dr. Rodriguez
Virginia Beach, VA
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 27 Dec 1997 17:03:01 -0500
Reply-To:     dronebee@norfolk.infi.net
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" <dronebee@norfolk.infi.net>
Organization: Independent non-profit research
Subject:      Re: Second queen in hive
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hi Tom.  Merry X-mas.
I must admit that I had a laugh out of your annecdote about the look of
astonishment in the beekeeper's face when he realized what had happened.  Ideas?
I am sure that our
subscribers will provide as many different ideas as there are beekeepers on this
list.  I for one have my own, of course.  I'll relate mine by means of the old
adage, one should not assume (or take for granted) anything when it comes to honey
bees. An old professor of mine a very long time ago explained to me the meaning of
a much common used term these days.   ASS            -U-                  ME.
I don't think that I am going to explain the annecdote using all the words as it
was explained to me in an effort to keep from injuring sensibilities.
For the newbies:  One of the most important aspects of beekeeping is to make very
thorough examinations and to record one's findings. Small neglects tend to end in
large disappointments.
Best regards.
Dr. Rodriguez
Virginia Beach, VA
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 27 Dec 1997 23:27:21 GMT
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Computer Software Solutions Ltd <cssl@iol.ie>
Subject:      Two Queen System
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
 
Hi All
 
I have recently come across a booklet entitled 'A Simple Two Queen System'
by Ron Brown.
 
I am a first year beekeeper and I have my home apiary in my back garden in
suburban Dublin Ireland.
 
This beekeeping management system seems to offer many benefits to someone
like myself. These benefits listed by Ron Brown are as follows:
 
    1. More Honey from less equipment.
    2. Automatic re queening every year.
    3. Control of Swarming
    4. Stronger Healthier Colonies.
    5. Best Preparation for Heather
    6. option of Increasing Stocks.
 
I was wondering if any expreienced beekeeper had any experience of this system,
as certainly on reading the booklet it seems to be all advantages. Now I
know, that especially in beekeeping, there are always trade offs and the
balance of advantage is what is sought.
 
I posted a request for help on identifying a second queen in a hive arising
out of my study of this booklet, and am grateful for the very helpful
posting by Michael Palmer.
 
I should be most grateful for any comments form the list on the above
management system.
 
Sincerely
 
Tom Barrett
49 South Park
Foxrock
Dublin 18
Ireland
 
e mail: cssl@iol.ie
Location: Northern Hemisphere
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 27 Dec 1997 18:52:42 -0500
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Ted Fischer <tvf@umich.edu>
Subject:      Re: Two Queen System
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Computer Software Solutions Ltd wrote:
 
> I have recently come across a booklet entitled 'A Simple Two Queen System'
> by Ron Brown.
> This beekeeping management system seems to offer many benefits to someone
> like myself. These benefits listed by Ron Brown are as follows:
>
>     1. More Honey from less equipment.
>     2. Automatic re queening every year.
>     3. Control of Swarming
>     4. Stronger Healthier Colonies.
>     5. Best Preparation for Heather
>     6. option of Increasing Stocks.
>
> I was wondering if any expreienced beekeeper had any experience of this system,
> as certainly on reading the booklet it seems to be all advantages. Now I
> know, that especially in beekeeping, there are always trade offs and the
> balance of advantage is what is sought.
>
Yes, for sure there are trade offs.  I am not familiar with this
particular two queen system, but have used systems based on that found
in "The Hive and the Honey Bee" off and on for many years.
 
1. There is certainly more honey, both a blessing and a curse, because
it involves frequent extractings or piling many more supers on (my
practice).  In either case there is a lot more work involved, but the
extra honey is really the reason for doing it in the first place, isn't
it?
 
2. This generally is true, but not always.  Usually the new queen takes
over when the two half-colonies are united, but sometimes if she is not
up to the challenge of a huge colony swarming will occur.  This doesn't
happen often, but when it does you will have massive swarms, and the
whole purpose of the two-queen system will be thwarted.
 
3.  See above!
 
4. Yes, this is generally true, except for 2. above.
 
5.  I don't know about this, having no experience with heather.
 
6. This is a good point.  The two half-colonies before union may simply
be separated to make two colonies rather than one two queen colony, if
you need the extra colony for some reason.  It is like having a ready
made split on hand.  This is a pure advantage.
 
Ted Fischer
Dexter, Michigan USA
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 27 Dec 1997 23:18:16 -0500
Reply-To:     dronebee@norfolk.infi.net
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" <dronebee@norfolk.infi.net>
Organization: Independent non-profit research
Subject:      Multiple System
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hi friends.  Happy holidays.
Utilization of multiple queen systems is not new.  It has was practiced by French and
Spanish beekeepers beekeepers many years back.
For those interested in reading about this technique I would like to recommend a book
 
written by a great beekeeper, Professor Dr. Andres Roma Fabrega, Explotacion Racional
del Colmenar, Editorial Sintes, Barcelona, Spain 1974.  I do not know if this book
has been translated into other languages.  My inclination is to think that it may
have being that it was written by a well known professor and beekeeper.  The book has
many photographs of different "arrangements" and many detailed diagrams of different
set ups.  Worth reading if nothing more than to become acquitted with a "for profit
beekeeping system.
Best regards.
Dr. Rodriguez
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 28 Dec 1997 08:34:02 -0500
Reply-To:     mpalmer@together.net
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Michael Palmer <mpalmer@together.net>
Organization: French Hill Apiaries
Subject:      two queen system
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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I've tried it. Seems like a big pain in the b.. (back?). Lots of extra
time and lots of extra lifting. More swarming if the honeyflow is
strong. Bill Mraz said it best. A box of bees is a box of bees. In a
good year you get more honey, in a bad year you don't(anything times
zero equals zero).
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 28 Dec 1997 21:20:34 GMT+0200
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Garth <g95c6713@warthog.ru.ac.za>
Organization: Rhodes University South Africa
Subject:      Re: finding the queen and other tricks
Comments: To: John M Thorp <hallelujah.honey.co@juno.com>
 
Hi All
 
Enjoyed this thread especially the bit about the excluder box - will
be making one soon.
 
I worked out a little trick for finding queens that seems to work
reasoably well if you don't  scare the bees.
 
If you have an empty frame with nothig in it handy, just place it
betweenn two frames of uncapped brood. I use mainly single brood
chambers so it is easy to work out the direction the queen is movinng
the nest in. Close the hive up, come back in half an hour annd very
genntly open the hive, put one small puff of smoke onto the top of
the hive, place the smoker nearby so the wind wafts the smoke through
and remove the new comb - most of the time the previous disturbance
seems to have made the queen hide, and the vast new laying space
provided by the empty comb attracts her and she will be on that
frame.
 
Another thing that is quite handy, and I have absolutly no knowledge
why this is, but the bee louse, Braulo coece (I think) often seems to
infest the bees near the queen, so if one has bee lice in the hive,
looking for many bees with them is like looking for the queen.
 
Of course there is the newly hatched queen problem - I don't know if
anybody else has had that dissapointing sinking feeling when you
lift out the frame, find the queen and she flies away - and never
comes back!
 
Keep well
 
Garth
---
Garth Cambray       Camdini Apiaries
15 Park Road        Apis melifera capensis
Grahamstown         800mm annual precipitation
6139
Eastern Cape
South Africa               Phone 27-0461-311663
 
On holiday for a few months     Rhodes University
Which means: working with bees 15 hours a day!
Interests: Fliis and bees
Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this post in no way
reflect those of Rhodes University.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 28 Dec 1997 14:47:15 -0500
Reply-To:     dronebee@norfolk.infi.net
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" <dronebee@norfolk.infi.net>
Organization: Independent non-profit research
Subject:      Re: finding the queen and other tricks
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Hi Garth. Very Happy Holidays.
It is indeed a heart rendering experience.  I have lost queens that way.
One stands there like an idiot watching the queen fly away followed by a
trail of bees! I thought that it happened to me only.  Thanks for
sharing! After all these years, now I feel better.
Best regards.
Pedro
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Date:         Sun, 28 Dec 1997 16:09:32 -0500
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         jim jensen <bdnut@mindspring.com>
Subject:      Re: WINTER FEEDING
In-Reply-To:  <14102841320332@systronix.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
 
Rudolf Steiner recommended using chamomile tea to make sugar syrup.  Also a
little salt.  All aimed at making the sugar more digestable.
 
  Jim Jensen         Atlanta, GA         bdnut@mindspring.com
 
               The BioDynamic Honeybee Symposium
      A Quarterly forum for discussion of important topics.
                From beekeepers to beekeepers.
                    Contact me for copies.
 
 
>
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Date:         Sun, 28 Dec 1997 18:29:02 -0500
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         John M Thorp <hallelujah.honey.co@juno.com>
Subject:      Re: finding the queen and other tricks
Comments: To: g95c6713@warthog.ru.ac.za
 
Hi
Garth,                                                                  Yes,
I did  have that happen but only once,P.T.L..
Take Care and GBY,John in Homestead,also at<cfwc2@gil.net>
 
>Of course there is the newly hatched queen problem - I don't know if
>anybody else has had that dissapointing sinking feeling when you
>lift out the frame, find the queen and she flies away - and never
>comes back!
>
>Keep well
>
>Garth
>---
>Garth Cambray       Camdini Apiaries
>15 Park Road        Apis melifera capensis
>Grahamstown         800mm annual precipitation
>6139
>Eastern Cape
>South Africa               Phone 27-0461-311663
>
>On holiday for a few months     Rhodes University
>Which means: working with bees 15 hours a day!
>Interests: Fliis and bees
>Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this post in no way
>reflect those of Rhodes University.
>
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 24 Dec 1997 09:25:04 PST
Reply-To:     Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
From:         Ron Taylor <lcblocklowcountry@juno.com>
Subject:      Re: Location Needed, please
 
Hi
 
        I Hope you have a nice Christmas and Happy New Year.  I live in
the coastal region of South Carolina.  We too are fighting a battle with
the mites
 
Ron Taylor
President of South Carolina Beekeepers
Cottageville SC 29435