========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 13:56:49 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: JOHN TAYLOR Subject: Bee Analysis In-Reply-To: <16340239007773@systronix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A small-time, beginner beekeeper . . . I've lost my bees again this Winter - ALREADY! I thought I had adequately treated my bees before Winter came around. Would anyone be able to tell me where I might send some bees to help get an idea of what I'm doing wrong? I live in Southeast Missouri. Thanks, John Taylor ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 07:11:00 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: Re: Hauling supers - flat bed vs. low trailer Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >The beds on these trucks are about 5 feet off the ground, at least, >requiring one person to stay up there and stack the supers onto the >pallets. (As the day goes by the height of the truck bed seems to >increase, as the supers get "heavier!") I have noticed the same phenomenom. It is the supers that get heavier by the end of the day. It believe it has something to do with the boxes being in the sun for several hours :) Eric Abell Gibbons, Alberta Canada T0A 1N0 Ph/fax (403) 998 3143 eabell@compusmart.ab.ca ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:20:15 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Bee samples MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hope this is still correct: July 1992 UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE Agricultural Research Service DIRECTIONS FOR SENDING DISEASED BROOD AND ADULT HONEY BEES FOR DIAGNOSIS * Samples are accepted from anyone and in most cases are processed within one working day. * The accuracy of the diagnosis of any bee disease depends on the condition of the sample. The sample can be loosely wrapped in a paper bag, paper towel, newspaper, etc. and sent in a wooden or heavy cardboard box. Adult bees should be in 70% ethyl or methyl alcohol * We do not have the facilities to test for pesticide poisoning. Samples of Brood: * Avoid wrappings such as plastic bags, aluminum foil, waxed paper, tin, or glass because they allow fungi to grow on the samples. * The sample of comb should be at least 2 X 2 inches. * The sample should contain as much of the dead or discolored brood as possible. * NO HONEY SHOULD BE PRESENT IN THE SAMPLE. * If a comb cannot be sent, the probe used to examine a diseased larva in the cell may contain enough material for tests. The probe can be wrapped in paper and sent to the laboratory in an envelope. Samples of Adult Honey Bees: * Send at least 100 bees in a sample. * If possible, select bees that are dying or that died recently. Decayed bees are not satisfactory for examination. * BEES SUBMITTED FOR MITE EXAMINATION MUST BE PRESERVED IN ALCOHOL. Bees should be placed in 70% ethyl or methyl alcohol as soon as possible after collection and carefully packed in leak-proof containers. If alcohol is unavailable, bees can be sent loosely wrapped in a paper towel or newspaper. However, it is difficult to detect tracheal mites in these samples. * DO NOT SUBMIT BEES WHICH HAVE BEEN EXPOSED TO ETHER. How to Address and Package Samples: * Send all samples to: Bee Disease Diagnosis Bee Research Laboratory Beltsville Agricultural Research Center-East Building 476 Beltsville, MD 20705. * A short description of the problem along with your name and address should accompany the sample. BRL Protocol for Bee Disease Diagnosis Anyone submitting samples to the Bee Research Laboratory (BRL) should understand our priorities for diagnosis. They are as follows: Priority No. 1: Brood and adult honey bee samples submitted in support of Federal or State emergency programs. Priority No. 2: Brood samples from colonies where the results may institute abatement action. Priority No. 3: Examination of adult bees to obtain moving permits. Priority No. 4: Examination of adult bees for information purposes. When examining bees for Tracheal Mites (Acarapis woodi) priority will be given to pooled apiary samples. These bees will be examined until Acarapis woodi is found or until 50 bees have been scrutinized. These samples are usually processed within two working days. Samples from individual colonies will be processed only on a "as time allows" basis. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:43:16 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Don Moore Subject: Re: Bee Analysis Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:56 PM 1/22/98 GMT, you wrote: >A small-time, beginner beekeeper . . . I've lost my bees again this >Winter - ALREADY! I thought I had adequately treated my bees before >Winter came around. Would anyone be able to tell me where I might >send some bees to help get an idea of what I'm doing wrong? > >I live in Southeast Missouri. > >Thanks, > >John Taylor > John, I don't see you name on our State Beekeepers Association but if you are interested in joining, that would be one way to communicate with Mo. beekeepers and learn of some of our problems. We would be happy to help in anyway possible, also to send you info of our association or maybe connect you with others larger beekeepers in your area. Don Moore Secretary ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 10:53:17 -0500 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" Organization: Independent non-profit research Subject: Re: allozyme analysis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hola Srita. Pilar. He visto su suplica en la Lista de Bee-L, y no he tenido mas remedio que escribirle para saludarle y darle mis felicitaciones por el gran trabajo que desempe~na. Yo trabajo en la busqueda de curas contra los acaros (exlusivamente con aceite mineral tipo "white"). Por lo tanto no creo que pueda serle util en el tema que solicita. Mas sin embargo, si hubiese algun otro tema que en que yo pueda servir aqui en America, favor indicarmelo que yo tendre mucho gusto en hacerlo. Quiero indicarle que gracias a la gran capacidad de la cybernetica, no somos completamente estra~nos, pues tenemos un amigo en comun, Elias Gonzalez San Juan. Hasta pronto, y lo dicho, favor de indicarme si en algo le puedo servir desde America. Pedro PD. Durante muchos a~nos tuve un piso en la Manga del Mar Menor y tenia colmenas en esa area. Llevo muy gratos recuerdos de la provincia de Murcia. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:04:21 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Walter T. Weller" Subject: Re: Hauling supers - flat bed vs. low trailer Right. I reached the same conlusion unloading a flatbed of baled hay into a barn loft by hand. >I have noticed the same phenomenom. It is the supers that get heavier >by >the end of the day. It believe it has something to do with the boxes >being >in the sun for several hours :) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 16:41:56 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Goodman Subject: APINET FAX-L? Comments: To: APINET-L Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I am investigating the possibility of setting up an APINET FAX-L in order to keep in touch with Apinet members who do not have access to email but who may have a fax machine. Obviously, it may only take the form of a "digest", at least initially, and may not have the flexibility or automatic capabilities of an email listserver, but I feel that it may be worth piloting because many potential members do not yet have access to email. Does anyone have any experience of operating such a system? Presumably, faxes sent to a telephone (fax) list directly from a computer modem via "MS Word" or similar software should be able to fire out digests selected from the output of an email listserver. Many thanks in advance for any ideas! Best wishes, JOHN GOODMAN Regional Bee Inspector (North East of England) CSL National Bee Unit, UK Tel/Fax:+44 1833 690561 j.m.goodman@csl.gov.uk International Coordinator for the "Apinet" APINET BEE (Bee Educ & Ext) NEWS # ( http://web.inter.nl.net/hcc/beenet/ ) # # WEBSITE+LISTSERVER+DIAL-UP # ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 20:30:39 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rimantas Zujus Subject: INTERPRETER Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable HI, Bee people There is a wonderful interpreter in ALTA VISTA .It changes text from = Spanish, French, German, Portugese to English or vice versa in a few = seconds. Try it and the most populiar languages of the Europe will not = be a secret to You. Just now I,ve read a " Spanish " mail in the Bee-L = succesfully : http://babelfish.altavista.digital.com/cgi-bin/translate? Good luck Rimantas Zujus Kaunas LITHUANIA e-mail : zujus@isag.lei.lt http://www.online.lt/indexs.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 15:53:50 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Walt Barricklow Subject: Re: Hauling supers - flat bed vs. low trailer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ive come to a slightly different conclusion. The boxes seem to get heavier after Ive been in the sun for several hours. ---------- > From: Walter T. Weller > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Re: Hauling supers - flat bed vs. low trailer > Date: Thursday, January 22, 1998 10:04 AM > > Right. I reached the same conlusion unloading a flatbed of baled hay > into a barn loft by hand. > > >I have noticed the same phenomenom. It is the supers that get heavier > >by > >the end of the day. It believe it has something to do with the boxes > >being > >in the sun for several hours :) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 21:00:54 -0500 Reply-To: mpalmer@together.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Palmer Organization: French Hill Apiaries Subject: Re: Bee Analysis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Have you got a commercial beekeeper nearby you can go to for help? JOHN TAYLOR wrote: > A small-time, beginner beekeeper . . . I've lost my bees again this > Winter - ALREADY! I thought I had adequately treated my bees before > Winter came around. Would anyone be able to tell me where I might > send some bees to help get an idea of what I'm doing wrong? > > I live in Southeast Missouri. > > Thanks, > > John Taylor ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 20:07:18 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Karen & Ralph Johnston Subject: Save the Honey Bee MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just thought the rest of you might be interested on the "Save the Honey Bee" campaign of General Mills. Seems a small amount to the sales of Cherrios.....at least to me. Ralph Johnston ---------- > > From: Ranee Rieber > > Subject: FW: Save the Honey Bee > > Date: Tuesday, January 20, 1998 9:07 AM > > > > Dear Karen and Ralph, > > I am really sorry for the delay of my response, The Save the Bee > > Campaign raised nearly $10,000. This money went to Michigan State > > University, University of Minnesota and University of California to > > their Entomology Bee Research Departments. > > > > Thank you again for writing! > > > > Ranee R. > > > > Sent: Monday, December 22, 1997 7:54 PM > > > To: Ranee Rieber > > > Subject: Re: Save the Honey Bee > > > > > > How much money did General > > > Mills give to honey bee research?? or did they not give any ???? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 12:00:02 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Darrell Laney Subject: Re: Save the Honey Bee IMHO this is a very nice amount when compared to what other companies have done...I will buy a new box of Cherrios....Now if we can get the pesticides companies to do there part. -----Original Message----- From: Karen & Ralph Johnston To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Date: Friday, January 23, 1998 1:17 PM Subject: Save the Honey Bee >Just thought the rest of you might be interested on the "Save the Honey >Bee" campaign of General Mills. >Seems a small amount to the sales of Cherrios.....at least to me. > > Ralph Johnston > > ---------- >> > From: Ranee Rieber >> > Subject: FW: Save the Honey Bee >> > Date: Tuesday, January 20, 1998 9:07 AM >> > >> > Dear Karen and Ralph, >> > I am really sorry for the delay of my response, The Save the Bee >> > Campaign raised nearly $10,000. This money went to Michigan State >> > University, University of Minnesota and University of California to >> > their Entomology Bee Research Departments. >> > >> > Thank you again for writing! >> > >> > Ranee R. >> >> > > Sent: Monday, December 22, 1997 7:54 PM >> > > To: Ranee Rieber >> > > Subject: Re: Save the Honey Bee >> > > >> > > How much money did General >> > > Mills give to honey bee research?? or did they not give any ???? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 18:29:55 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: Save the Honey Bee In-Reply-To: <199801240109.UAA26210@elvis.vnet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:07 PM 1/23/98 -0500, you wrote: >Just thought the rest of you might be interested on the "Save the Honey >Bee" campaign of General Mills. >Seems a small amount to the sales of Cherrios.....at least to me. > Ralph Johnston Hi Ralph & Bee Keeping Friends, Well if you had to help the OLd Drone eat all those HONEY O's or what ever they were called you would not bee saying that... BTW. My cat that helped me out DIED,... I found out later that HONEY O's does nothing for a cats urinary system, and I am wondering what it did to my..own but so far no problems. Anyway it is good to know that at least 20,000 box tops were returned to GM, and this in a very small way has added to the one billion dollar profit the post office made last year, their largest ever, for which we are to be rewarded soon with a postage increase. As for the bee research I can without asking anyone at any university tell you that for certain the money has been spent and then some. Were any bees or beekeepers saved is another question. At least those beekeepers who saw through this phoney effort on the part of GM and did not participate and may have saved a lot of belie ache and postage. Should you go out an buy a box of cereal because money has been paid for bee research? If you can find it on sale and its not out dated, and you are not concerned about the urinary health of your cats or kids and it does not bother you that the honey in it was produced and then stolen from some off shore beekeeper and the box itself problematically is more healthful to eat I would still consider checking out POST's cereals at least they used to be up front about telling you eating it will make you very important or was that impotent. The truth is if you want honey on/in your food you are better off adding it yourself not only saying money in doing so but knowing for sure how much and what you added to your food is much safer then letting a money grubbing cereal manufactures do it for you that would in an instant substitute anything cheaper and sweet for honey no matter what's listed on the product label and that's why they don't tell you how much they put in each package and why so seldom is honey ahead of salt in the list of ingredients. Ingredients are listed according to the volume of each in depending* order, so it is written, so it must be... ** (depending*) on who's watching) ttul, the OLd Drone ... That the still murmur of the honey bee ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 12:57:00 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Darrell Laney Subject: Re: Save the Honey Bee Andy are you a communist by any chance...in less than 3 paragraphs you bashed 2 companies for trying to make a profit....as for the Urinary track problems be careful the company way be based in Texas and sue you... -----Original Message----- From: Andy Nachbaur To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Date: Friday, January 23, 1998 2:39 PM Subject: Re: Save the Honey Bee >At 08:07 PM 1/23/98 -0500, you wrote: > >>Just thought the rest of you might be interested on the "Save the Honey >>Bee" campaign of General Mills. >>Seems a small amount to the sales of Cherrios.....at least to me. >> Ralph Johnston > >Hi Ralph & Bee Keeping Friends, > >Well if you had to help the OLd Drone eat all those HONEY O's or what ever >they were called you would not bee saying that... > >BTW. My cat that helped me out DIED,... I found out later that HONEY O's >does nothing for a cats >urinary system, and I am wondering what it did to my..own but so far no >problems. > >Anyway it is good to know that at least 20,000 box tops were returned to >GM, and this in a very small way has added to the one billion dollar >profit the post office made last year, their largest ever, for which we are >to be rewarded soon with a postage increase. As for the bee research I can >without asking anyone at any university tell you that for certain the money >has been spent and then some. > >Were any bees or beekeepers saved is another question. At least those > > >beekeepers who saw through this phoney effort on the part of GM and did not >participate and may have saved a lot of belie ache and postage. > >Should you go out an buy a box of cereal because money has been paid for >bee research? If you can find it on sale and its not out dated, and you are >not concerned about the urinary health of your cats or kids and it does not >bother you that the honey in it was produced and then stolen from some off >shore beekeeper and the box itself problematically is more healthful to eat >I would still consider checking out POST's cereals at least they used to be >up front about telling you eating it will make you very important or was >that impotent. > >The truth is if you want honey on/in your food you are better off adding it >yourself not only saying money in doing so but knowing for sure how much >and what you added to your food is much safer then letting a money grubbing >cereal manufactures do it for you that would in an instant substitute >anything cheaper and sweet for honey no matter what's listed on the product >label and that's why they don't tell you how much they put in each package >and why so seldom is honey ahead of salt in the list of ingredients. >Ingredients are listed according to the volume of each in depending* order, >so it is written, so it must be... >** (depending*) on who's watching) > >ttul, the OLd Drone > >... That the still murmur of the honey bee ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 19:21:30 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: Save the Honey Bee In-Reply-To: <02482946300282@cybrtyme.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:57 PM 1/13/98 -0600, you wrote: >Andy are you a communist by any chance...in less than 3 paragraphs you >bashed 2 companies for trying to make a profit....as for the Urinary track Naa, the OLd Drone ain't no Commie, he ain't even a good fifth columnist, but I can tell you for a fact if he was even a good Demorat you would not catch him on his knees, even before his President and I got pictures to prove that showing him towering over RR at work signing bills to benefit beekeepers.. >problems be careful the company way be based in Texas and sue you... The OLd Drone got a poets licence a long time when I think he was a California Honey Market Reporter and he also has the biggest, the very best Insurance that money can buy that protects him from any law suites, ..NO MONEY, and holes in his deep pockets! As for the General Mills...IMHO, they steal from the farmer, steal from the consumers and if its wrong to point out what is part of the public record then so bee it. POST cereals history is well known even to non members of their faith, books have been written about it, most all report that they invented their breakfast cereals and promoted them as if force fed to little boys they would not play with themselves, ..or little girls later on in life and I am sure that is why our President eats the Breakfast Mac and not Post Toastees. ttul, the OLd Drone Now a monk in Cuba (A)bort, (R)etry, (S)mack the friggin thing (c)Permission is given to copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 23:41:56 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Stewart Beattie Subject: Re: Soap Making In-Reply-To: <199801182203.WAA15355@mail.iol.ie> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Sun 18 Jan, Computer Software Solutions Ltd wrote: > Hi All > > I recently came across a comment about making soap, from I believe, beeswax. > > The article did not specify how to do it but laid claim to the beneficial > effects of such a product. > > I was wondering if any body on the list knows of the procedure to make soap. > > Sincerely > Tom Barret Tom Try the News group below. It is not very active but has returned some information for me. Looks a group who could share similar products, candlemaking, as beekeepers. alt.crafts.candlemaking.soapmaking Stewart Cumbria, UK. (an old Gable-Endie) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 14:20:15 -0600 Reply-To: ordre-de-la@resistance.org Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Charles de Gaulle Subject: unsubscribe bee-l akia@ix.netcom.com Comments: cc: majordomo@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU, listserv@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit unsubscribe bee-l akia@ix.netcom.com John Goodman wrote: > > Can anyone let me know if there is or might be a market for varroacide free > wax. I am looking for bulk outlets which will pay a premium for such wax > which has been produced in an area where it is still not necessary to treat > for varroa. It may be that there are other areas in northwest europe where > this product will command a premium eg Germany. > > Many Thanks & Best Wishes, > > JOHN GOODMAN > > Regional Bee Inspector > (North East of England) > CSL National Bee Unit, UK > Tel/Fax:+44 1833 690561 > j.m.goodman@csl.gov.uk > > International Coordinator for the "Apinet" > APINET BEE (Bee Educ & Ext) NEWS > # ( http://web.inter.nl.net/hcc/beenet/ ) # > # WEBSITE+LISTSERVER+DIAL-UP # -- mailto:akia@ix.netcom.com PlayPage http://www.daisynet.com/~frank/ ResumePage http://www.netcom.com/~akia/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 12:41:01 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Swarm Control Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi All This is my second year at beekeeping, and I am presently trying to get a firm grip on swarm control, especially as I have hives in a suburban garden. I have been reading many books, and I have put together a flowchart to assist me in seeing the various requirements at a glance. I show below the flowchart in narrative form together with the development of the Queen Cell on which it is based. I would love to obtain some feed back on this, in case I am making assumptions which may lead to a flawed procedure. Thanks for all input, and thanks to all who gave me data on soap making. Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland e mail cssl@iol.ie Tel + 353 1 289 5269 Fax + 353 1 289 9940 Latitude 53 Deg North Longitude 06 Deg West Development of Queen Cell Day No Status Days to Swarm 1 Egg 8 2 Egg 7 3 Egg 6 4 Unsealed Larva 5 5 Unsealed Larva 4 6 Unsealed Larva 3 7 Unsealed Larva 2 8 Unsealed Larva 1 9 Sealed Larva 0 Swarm normally issues Hive Examination with Queen present. In terms of Queen Cells (QCs), what do you see as the most developed cell? NONE or DRY QCs Swarm could issue in 9 days Is there enough room? If NO, add frames or a super Next Examination - 8 days Eggs in QCs Swarm could issue in 6 to 8 days Is there enough room? If NO, add frames or a super Next Examination - 5 days Unsealed Larva Swarm could issue in 1 to 5 days Initiate Swarm Control procedures. The next examination is always 1 day ahead of the possible issue of a swarm. If the bees have not given up the swarming impulse, you will always see unsealed QCs at the next inspection. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 08:28:38 -0500 Reply-To: mpalmer@together.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Palmer Organization: French Hill Apiaries Subject: Re: Swarm Control MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If you can get a firm grip on swarming after two years keeping bees you're amazing. After almost 25 years, I still have more swarming than I'd like some years. First thing to remember - Swarming is a requeening procedure for the parent colony. Maintaining young queens in your colonies is the first line of defence. How many times have I seen overcrowded colonies with young queens not swarm, and underpopulated colonies with old queens do. Second thing - Don't let the colony build up too early. Our first major flow is from dandelion. If our colonies are aproaching full strength at the beginning of the flow, they'll often swarm before or during the main flow. If the colonies build up on the dandelion, and reach full strength at the start of the main flow, and have young queens, then they don't usually swarm. We try to leave each colony with 5 or 6 frames of brood at the beginning of dandelion. More than that we take away and either strengthen weaker colonies, or make nucs for requeening or winterkill replacement. Third - remember that whatever you do, some colonies will still swarm. If you get one of these(lucky you if you have only one), try requeening it. Cut out ALL the cells, kill the old queen, and requeen with a nuc over newspaper. Usually works. Fourth - your flow charts don't always help so much. You're learning what should happen given A, B, or C. Trouble is, things don't always happen the way you or the book think. I've seen many times when cells are started, and are in various stages of development, that the bees tear down the cells, and get down to business. Mike Computer Software Solutions Ltd wrote: > Hi All > > This is my second year at beekeeping, and I am presently trying to get a firm > grip on swarm control, especially as I have hives in a suburban garden. > > I have been reading many books, and I have put together a flowchart to assist > me in seeing the various requirements at a glance. > > I show below the flowchart in narrative form together with the development of > the Queen Cell on which it is based. > > I would love to obtain some feed back on this, in case I am making assumptions > which may lead to a flawed procedure. > > Thanks for all input, and thanks to all who gave me data on soap making. > > Sincerely > Tom Barrett > 49 South Park > Foxrock > Dublin 18 > Ireland > > e mail cssl@iol.ie > Tel + 353 1 289 5269 > Fax + 353 1 289 9940 > > Latitude 53 Deg North > Longitude 06 Deg West > > Development of Queen Cell > > Day No Status Days to Swarm > 1 Egg 8 > 2 Egg 7 > 3 Egg 6 > 4 Unsealed Larva 5 > 5 Unsealed Larva 4 > 6 Unsealed Larva 3 > 7 Unsealed Larva 2 > 8 Unsealed Larva 1 > 9 Sealed Larva 0 Swarm normally issues > > Hive Examination with Queen present. > > In terms of Queen Cells (QCs), what do you see as the most developed cell? > > NONE or DRY QCs > > Swarm could issue in 9 days > Is there enough room? > If NO, add frames or a super > Next Examination - 8 days > > Eggs in QCs > > Swarm could issue in 6 to 8 days > Is there enough room? > If NO, add frames or a super > Next Examination - 5 days > > Unsealed Larva > > Swarm could issue in 1 to 5 days > Initiate Swarm Control procedures. > > The next examination is always 1 day ahead of the possible issue of a > swarm. > > If the bees have not given up the swarming impulse, you will always see > unsealed QCs at the next inspection. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 09:32:09 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Frank & Phronsie Humphrey Subject: Re: Soap Making MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Try http://www.sugarplum.net Karon Adams tells you how to make your first batch of soap in a manageable size using Big Gulp cups left around the house. She will also answer questions via email Frank & Phronsie Humphrey beekeepr@bellsouth.net -----Original Message----- From: Stewart Beattie To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Date: Saturday, January 24, 1998 12:51 AM Subject: Re: Soap Making >On Sun 18 Jan, Computer Software Solutions Ltd wrote: >> Hi All >> >> I recently came across a comment about making soap, from I believe, beeswax. >> >> The article did not specify how to do it but laid claim to the beneficial >> effects of such a product. >> >> I was wondering if any body on the list knows of the procedure to make soap. >> > >> Sincerely >> Tom Barret > >Tom >Try the News group below. It is not very active but >has returned some information for me. Looks a group who >could share similar products, candlemaking, as beekeepers. > >alt.crafts.candlemaking.soapmaking > > Stewart >Cumbria, UK. (an old Gable-Endie) > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 10:03:49 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "MR WILLIAM L HUGHES JR." Subject: Warning on AMBER HONEY WANTED mail Friend, If you get a message requesting honey prices, amount produced, shipping cost, etc. from Saleh Jamil this person is not buying honey. After dancing me around with a number of request about my business they inform me that they are only looking into getting into the honey packing business and just want information. If this person had told me this on the front end I would have helped, but no they had to act like they were serious buyers. Just a warning so no one else will waste their time and effort with this person. Bill Hughes Bent Holly Honey Farm Brighton, Tennessee USA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 10:45:11 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Wendy l Evensen Subject: Re: Soap Making Tom, I am a soaper located in central NC, and I integrate beeswax into every batch I make. There are about 3 or 4 lists I am on for soapers, one for toiletries, which includes everything from homemade dusting powder and bath salts to cream or lotions, and one list which is devoted to glycerine melt and pour soap(which does not utilize beeswax). I've been on these lists for sometime, but if you are interested let me know and I'll try to dig out some information. I make my soap in small batches, 6-10#, and I make a variety of "flavors" I make one line using only vegetable oils: Olive, Sunflower, Palm and Coconut with a few ounces of beeswax, also 100% Olive Oil bars, and a line of herbal soaps (Calendula, Rosemary, etc) and a line of vegetable and lard soaps. I have found through trial and error and many $$ that 1/2 ounce of beeswax per lb. of soap makes a much harder and longer lasting bar, just my humble opinion of course. Let me know if I can be of any assistance. Wendy Sadie Scarecrow's Herbal Garden SadiesHerbs@juno.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 07:56:28 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Walter Patton Subject: Re: S O B "Save our Bees" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Regarding General Mills save the honey bee program. I agree that the way that GM handeled the program left a lot to be desired and it was a beginning. Lot's of room for improvement, AND better then nothing, IMHO. Why can't American Bee Keepers get united about the saving of US bee keepers. One of the projects could be to approach every manufacture that chooses to use honey or bees as part of their packaging design to help with the effort to save US bee keepers. We could ask for annual participation. Maybe GM would like to redo the promotion and with some advance notice to Bee clubs, who could advise schools and with cooperative mailings could save postage and pretty soon the amount collected and contributed could become more significant. Again I wonder why we , beekeepers, can't act a little more like our beloved honey bees and " KOKUA" Hawaiian for work together for a good common cause. Aloha Walter ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 08:53:56 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Walter Patton Subject: NATIONAL HONEY BOARD IMHO MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have been a tiny/small producer & packer of Hawaii honey for the past 5 years. Some how the National Honey Board got my name a long time ago and started writing me. I quickly saw where they wanted me to send them one penny per lb. of honey that I bought from others and one penny per lb. of all the honey I produced and packed in excess of 6,000 lb. per year. I ignored the letters for a long time. Finally they NHB started calling me and talking like the police and I finally asked just who in the hell they were and by what authority did they threaten me. The sweet sounding female voice on the other end said yes to my question if she could show up at my house with Federal marshals if I refused to participate. WELL I decided to cave in and play ball. Since then I have been a real team player. I did and do have real concerns for the expansion of their authority, powers and allowing them to collect 2 pennies on every lb. of honey from producers over 6,000 lb. Let me tell about my observations. The transaction reports are required for each and every transaction completed. No matter if you do several transactions with the same producer in one month you have to make one transaction report per transaction. They also want/require your final report for the year by January 15th. IRS gives us till April 15th. The NHB has busted me several times because I feel it is reasonable that if several TR are with the same producer that I should be able to list only his name and say "on file" for his address, city, zip, and phone number. No, NO, No, says the NHB compliance officer not even in the computer age. What do they do? Lots of honey promotion specifically designed to aid the mass marketing honey packer companies. The national advertising is good and needed and it should promote 100 % USA honey and educate the public to read the sources of origin( interestingly the sources of origin does not have to be reflective of the % of honey for the listed countries, in other words if the sources of origin say US, China, Argentina the amount of US honey may be the smallest % of the honey) and look for a buy only 100 % USA honey. I was in Dallas at Thanksgiving and looked at the honey section in a major super market and they did not have any !00 % US honey. The other area that they NHB visibly do a lot of work is in the area of International foreign market promotions. I have sent honey to Paris, Germany, & the middle east. Sounds good and these efforts are mostly usable by the large packers. Now if the packers were only exporting US honey fine AND the amount of honey imported to the USA in outrageous. There are US bee keepers and more could be developed if a stronger price were being offered to US beekeepers for their honey. It is disgraceful not to be more supportive of US beekeepers with the huge demand for pollination. For US beekeepers to have to compete with the foreign producers and their fast and loose ways of operation. Just read the USDA reports on China and Argentina. Both have had dirty honey in the past. These 2 pennies that the NHB wants to collect will both be paid by the producers no matter what they say the producer will pay the TAX.. How in the wide , wide world could any allegedly beekeepers organization support putting more packers and even foreign importers on the Board of Directors of the NHB is way beyond me. It approaches being amazing that the NHB would not consist of a majority of producers real producers not producers representing packers. Better yet why not abolish the NHB and establish a marketing assessment collected by a 100 % beekeepers organization that would work relentlessly for US beekeepers. The United States of America is being traded away at an alarming pace. BEEKEEPER UNITE we can not leave the beekeeping advocacy to quasi beekeeper associations. They have gotten too big and political in their approach . This is yet another area that independent bee keepers must address. Again like Certified Organic when the victimized independent beekeeper do nothing on this issue what will happen? Wheres the money? Packers. Packers want the NHB because it ends up be corporate subsidy to help the packers buy and sell more foreign honey and to brow beat US producers to be competitive with foreign producers. Best of Bees to all , Walter ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 15:00:20 -0400 Reply-To: eunice.wonnacott@pei.sympatico.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eunice Wonnacott Subject: Re: S O B "Save our Bees" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Walter Patton wrote: > > Regarding General Mills save the honey bee program. I agree that the way > that GM handeled the program left a lot to be desired and it was a > beginning. Lot's of room for improvement, AND better then nothing, IMHO. > Why can't American Bee Keepers get united about the saving of US bee > keepers. One of the projects could be to approach every manufacture that > chooses to use honey or bees as part of their packaging design to help with > the effort to save US bee keepers. We could ask for annual participation. > Maybe GM would like to redo the promotion and with some advance notice to > Bee clubs, who could advise schools and with cooperative mailings could > save postage and pretty soon the amount collected and contributed could > become more significant. Again I wonder why we , beekeepers, can't act a > little more like our beloved honey bees and " KOKUA" Hawaiian for work > together for a good common cause. > Aloha > Walter This could be an international effort. The Canadian Honey Council, and various Agriculture departments, both Provincial and Federal ought to be interested. The bees do not recognize borders, only humans know about that sort of thing. Eunice From The Cradle of Confederation ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 13:07:19 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Subject: BEE DIETS PLEASE In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > DADANT'S at Fresno is the best first source of information for the > availability of the products needed to make one's own bee diets. They > also will be happy to sell you the soy diets ready to feed if that what > the beekeepers want. I will try to post the latest, greatest, > formulas in use by the commercial beekeepers here in the near future. Well, it's patty making time again. We're going to start next week, I think. I have a pallet of brewers yeast from California Spray Dry's oven A sitting in the shop and a pallet of soy flour and some bags of BEEPRO. I also have a kilo of the secret ingredient. (How much do I use, Andy?) I have some trapped pollen coming and am ready for those fomulae Andy has promised and also any ideas form elsewhere (Please). I think I have Mark's formula in my file and also the one that worked for us last year (and the one that didn't). What I'm hoping is that we can get some more chatter going here on the subject. I know last year the info that came across paid me well for my efforts on the list and that we got better buildup than usual. That meant more splits and more honey. I'm hoping that this year we'll do even better since we are going to boost the yeast component from about 20% to 50% or more of the non-sugar, non-water components. We're going to continue to add lots of extra sugar too. Comments? Allen ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 13:15:58 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: BEE DIETS PLEASE Comments: To: allend@internode.net In-Reply-To: <20071003915566@internode.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >At 01:07 PM 1/24/98 -0600, Allen Dick wrote: Hi Allen & Bee Friends, Hard to think about doing bees when one, at least in the USA, could miss some new information on the sexual appetite of our soon to be ex- president, and the sooner the better as far as I am concerned, don't be surprised if we do a missile attack on the Sodam.mites before he leave's office. >> DADANT'S at Fresno is the best first source of information for the >> availability of the products needed to make one's own bee diets. I'll 2nd that...well I firs ted it anyway.. >Well, it's patty making time again. We're going to start next week, I >think. Sounds like you have all the ingredients to make super bee food. I don't have any current true and tried recipes to give you and would only suggest to make the yeast and HFC syrup the major ingredients and work the other materials in, in small amounts to get rid of the stock on hand and hopefully add the kicker. Like those who make diets for other home reared insects which always contain some added vitamin C but when you ask them why they just have always done it that way. I would add the appropriate amount of TM in all food fed as doing this alone will increase the amount brood reared maybe because it controls such a wide variety of sub lethal problems all bee hives have. >I have a pallet of brewers yeast from California Spray Dry's oven A >sitting in the shop and a pallet of soy flour and some bags of BEEPRO. I >also have a kilo of the secret ingredient. (How much do I use, Andy?) >I have some trapped pollen coming and am ready for those fomulae Andy has >promised and also any ideas form elsewhere (Please). I did check with the local bee keepers here and none of them any longer find it an advantage to feeding protein diets in the spring but do feed twice in the fall when pollen is still coming in or available. They no longer use Terula Yeast because of the cost and the fact they could not get any positive results with the product made from corn waste. (I believe it was just processed too much judging by one bag I used years ago.) The formula is food or *feed grade yeast and HFC sugar to make the patties as thick or thin as you want them. Most are feeding it out of a bucket so they are using more sugar then if you wanted to actually make a measured pattie. *(With feed grade yeast the cost is less but there will be some waste as the bees can't use the larger size, chunks to them, that are contained in the feed grade products.) >I think I have Mark's formula in my file and also the one that worked for >us last year (and the one that didn't). Post the formula that worked last year and give us something to add too. >What I'm hoping is that we can get some more chatter going here on the >subject. I know last year the info that came across paid me well for my >efforts on the list and that we got better buildup than usual. That meant >more splits and more honey. That's what counts, more,....remembering that some don't want more, such as in earlier queen failure and swarms. >I'm hoping that this year we'll do even better since we are going to boost >the yeast component from about 20% to 50% or more of the non-sugar, >non-water components. We're going to continue to add lots of extra sugar That sounds reasonable to me, what I would do is make up small batches adding all the stuff I had around the bee barn and check back in a few days to see what is working the best. I guess if there is a rule in all this it is that if you add enough sugar to anything it will disappear from the hive.. but you are not interested in what just disappears you need to see some added brood that can be sustained by the bees so you should work from last years experience, if it was good, and go slow on any new ingredients which is to say use them in small amounts and if one is the magic bullet you should still be able to determine that. ttul, the OLd Drone * A cynic smells the flowers and looks for the casket. (c)Permission is given to copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 17:16:10 -0600 Reply-To: ribac@wi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Randy, Isa & Alina Chase" Subject: Re: Soap Making MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wendy, How interesting! I really would like to learn how to make soap. Can you write with instructions and directions. Thank you. Isa ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 19:52:28 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave from Scranton Subject: Re: Illegal beekeeping In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Scranton, PA prohibits all livestock as well. There is even a law that forbids the "holding, exhibiting or selling artificially colored chicks." I'm told that there is one guy who keps bees in an upstairs room in his house. There is a large pine tree in his backyard almost against the house. The landing board is the window sill of an upstairs room. He has the heat off in this room so the bees cluster during the winter. No one really notices the bees coming and going up high in the tree. ****************************************************************************** Dave D. Cawley | Where a social revolution is pending and, The Internet Cafe | for whatever reason, is not accomplished, Web Development Group | reaction is the alternative. Scranton, Pennsylvania | (717) 344-1969 | -Daniel De Leon dave@www.scranton.com | ****************************************************************************** URL => http://www.scranton.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 21:43:27 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: tomas mozer Subject: Re: Beekeeping in the Bahamas (the "family islands") i'm not a bahamian beekeeper (wish i were), but have been in eleuthera and believe there was a commercial operation in rock sound, "tropical foods"(?), whose honey was marketed as "island honey" and was dark as most cartibbean honeys i have seen... the beekeepert supposedly also ran a scuba dive service, and this may have been the bee business for sale that appeared in ABJ's classifieds sometime last year. i have heard of beehives being shipped to the bahamas from florida in the past, but don't know what the present policy is on importation...can also recall seeing some rustic hives on spanish wells, so you might bee able to get some locally (always preferable for stress/adaptation reasons). let me know what happens, would love to revisit 'lutra some day! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 23:22:03 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ben M Poehlman Subject: Mailing List Comments: cc: STPClub@juno.com Dear BEE-L Subscribers, For any of you who are interested, I am starting an Environmental Mailing List. For those of you who are not interested, I appologize for sending you this e-mail. This list is the second best in the world (The #1 list is BEE-L!!). If you want to join (It`s Free and the first mailing comes out in March), simply send an e-mail to STPClub@juno.com (STPClub stands for "Save the Planet Club") with the subject "Join" (Without Quotes) In the body of the letter, type "Hi", "123", "ABC", "Hello", or some other short quick message. Only about 100 people can join, so, if you are joining, I suggest you do so soon. Once again, to join this fantastic Mailing List, e-mail STPClub@juno.com with the subject "Join" and you are in. No personal information is needed-- just your e-mail address. You can also 'send mail to the club' through this same address. Thank You, Ben M. Poehlman STPClub@juno.com President of "Ben`s Environmental Mailing List" ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 23:41:58 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robert Watson Subject: Re: Soap Making In-Reply-To: <19980124.124704.3534.34.SadiesHerbs@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Is this subject a discussion of bee biology? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 00:08:25 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Doug Henry Subject: Treatment for Bee Stings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit While dicussing bees with some folks from Cold Lake Alberta a couple of weeks ago I was told that an onion was an effective treatment for bee stings. Supposedly an onion-half held against the stung area provides immediate and lasting relief from pain and swelling. Can anyone on the list verify this treatment? Doug Henry Lockport, Mb ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 01:13:40 +-100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=F8rn_Johanesson?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BD2999.66D7DD80" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD2999.66D7DD80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable J=F8rn Johanesson Solsortevej 27, Assens 9550 Mariager Tlf 98584061 fax 98583997 Mobil 21943362 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD2999.66D7DD80 Content-Type: application/msword; name="=?iso-8859-1?Q?C=3A=5CDOKUME=7E?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?1=5CJ=D8RNJO=7E1=2EDOC?=" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 0M8R4KGxGuEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAPgADAP7/CQAGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABAAAAHQAAAAAAAAAA EAAANQAAAAEAAAD+////AAAAAB4AAAD///////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// 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<885704512.1213033.0@uacsc2.albany.edu>, Automatic digest processor writes >Is this subject a discussion of bee biology? o, but it has to do with beeswax, part of the beekeeping scene. If you don't want to read it you should be able to find a delete button if you search hard enough. Anyway, is this list only for bee biology and if so since when? -- Tom Speight South Lakes Cumbria UK ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 11:23:36 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Frank & Phronsie Humphrey Subject: Re: Illegal beekeeping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Last year in one municipality, the argument was maid that honey bees are wild creatures and not livestock. Beekeepers simply provide a place for them to nest and the bees make the decision to stay or go. This is the same thing we do with bird houses yet birds are not considered livestock. With the swarming season we had last year, the removal of kept bees will not in all cases, remove bees from a given area. Frank & Phronsie Humphrey beekeepr@bellsouth.net -----Original Message----- From: Dave from Scranton To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Date: Saturday, January 24, 1998 07:52 PM Subject: Re: Illegal beekeeping > Scranton, PA prohibits all livestock as well. There is even a law >that forbids the "holding, exhibiting or selling artificially colored >chicks." > > I'm told that there is one guy who keps bees in an upstairs room >in his house. There is a large pine tree in his backyard almost against >the house. The landing board is the window sill of an upstairs room. He >has the heat off in this room so the bees cluster during the winter. No >one really notices the bees coming and going up high in the tree. > >**************************************************************** ************** >Dave D. Cawley | Where a social revolution is pending and, >The Internet Cafe | for whatever reason, is not accomplished, > Web Development Group | reaction is the alternative. >Scranton, Pennsylvania | >(717) 344-1969 | -Daniel De Leon >dave@www.scranton.com | >**************************************************************** ************** > URL => http://www.scranton.com > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 12:32:17 -0500 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" Organization: Independent non-profit research Subject: Re: Treatment for Bee Stings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Doug. I have been a beekeeper for over 60 years now. A long time ago, I developed immunity for bee stings, to a point that I don't even notice any more. However, I am invariably always asked the same questions: Do I get stung a lot? What remedies do I use? Regardless of my answers, people always have nicely intended remedies. Yours has been suggested. Also a nice slice of a fresh potato. Personally, I like to recommend application of a chunk of ice directly to the sting site (after removal of the stinger, of course) as soon as possible after the stinging takes place. The purpose of the ice is to prevent swelling which is the main reason for the painful sensation. After the swelling subsides, application of heat to the site to increase the blood circulation and to dilute and take away the venom is my next recommendation. I hope that you will you enjoy the "recommended" approach with a smile on your face especially since it comes from one who does not employ one. Best regards Dr. Rodriguez Virginia Beach, VA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 13:03:00 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "John M. Wolford" Subject: Sugar to Water Ratio MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am into my second year of beekeeping. I have forgotten the sugar to water ratio for winter feeding. Could someone please help me with this one? John M. Wolford jmwolford@kih.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 13:26:36 -0500 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" Organization: Independent non-profit research Subject: Re: Sugar to Water Ratio MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear John: This is a very important subject since bees must "perform actual work", and thus spend energy removing the water from the food given to them (in the sugar syrup). The recommended ratio is; twice the amount of sugar to water BY WEIGHT! You must weight the sugar and the water. Aside: It does not hurt if you overdo the amount of sugar, but it does if you overdo the amount of water. Please write back if you still have questions. Best regards. Dr. Rodriguez Virginia Beach, VA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 08:27:45 +1200 Reply-To: nickw@beekeeping.co.nz Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Subject: Re: Sugar to Water Ratio In-Reply-To: <34CB83DB.74FD6467@norfolk.infi.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > This is a very important subject since bees must "perform actual work", > and thus > spend energy removing the water from the food given to them (in the sugar > syrup). > The recommended ratio is; twice the amount of sugar to water BY WEIGHT! > You must weight the sugar and the water. Aside: It does not hurt if you > overdo the amount of sugar, but it does if you overdo the amount of water. Murray Reid, a NZ Apicultural Advisory Officer, wrote an excellent description of the maths involved in syrup. You can get the article by writing a msg to SYRUP@BEEKEEPING.CO.NZ (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- nickw@beekeeping.co.nz (/ NZ Beekeeping http:www.beekeeping.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 11:38:39 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: Sugar to Water Ratio In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:03 PM 1/25/98 -0800, you wrote: >I am into my second year of beekeeping. I have forgotten the sugar to >water ratio for winter feeding. Could someone please help me with this >one? You can only dissolve so much sugar in a know amount of water and I presume you want to feed your bees sugar and not water. When you have reached the maximum amount of sugar that can be de solved it will float. In the old day when we fed bagged or dry sugar we would use hot water to speed up the process, in any case you will never end up with the same amount of sugar you can get by using HFC or Invert syrup which many bee suppliers keep on hand not only for the commercial beekeepers but also will sell in small amounts like five gallons, in some case to the smaller beekeeper. You should not expect to pay for the water in the syrup, (so you must know something about the sugar solids in the syrup), and you may find it less expensive to buy it for a local commercial beekeeper, bee supply store, bakery, soda bottler, or a thousand other bulk users of sugar. Cultivating these sources of supply has more then once led to nice honey purchase contacts for the future production of many beekeepers and sometimes a trade of a few jars of honey in opening the door can be more then rewarding as food manufacturing establishments are not into getting the last drop of sugar out of that 2,000 gallon tank out back. I know small beekeepers that get all the sugar they can use just by draining what is left and would be washed down the drain of tanks, tankers and RR tank cars used for sugar if you are into that kind of work. ttul, the OLd Drone- ... I said, but just to be a bee (c)Permission is given to copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 12:58:10 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Tim Channell Subject: Re: Sugar to Water Ratio Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi John! The ratio is one to one (1C sugar, 1C. water). Tim Channell El Paso, Texas ----------------------- At 01:03 PM 1/25/98 -0800, you wrote: >I am into my second year of beekeeping. I have forgotten the sugar to >water ratio for winter feeding. Could someone please help me with this >one? > >John M. Wolford >jmwolford@kih.net > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 16:28:27 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Frank & Phronsie Humphrey Subject: Re: Sugar to Water Ratio MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As you can see there are almost as many opinions on this subject as there are on whose queens are best. Years ago a beekeeper told me to use 1 to 1 by volume in spring and summer. The bees will reduce it to what they need it to be and the moisture helps to cool the hive. For fall and winter he advised to put the sugar in a bucket and add just enough water to completely devolve the sugar. Worked for me for years. No matter how you mix it the bees will expend some energy to adjust the moisture level to their needs. I personally have been feeding corn syrup for the last few years. Frank Humphrey beekeepr@bellsouth.net -----Original Message----- From: Tim Channell To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Date: Sunday, January 25, 1998 02:59 PM Subject: Re: Sugar to Water Ratio >Hi John! The ratio is one to one (1C sugar, 1C. water). > >Tim Channell >El Paso, Texas >----------------------- > >At 01:03 PM 1/25/98 -0800, you wrote: >>I am into my second year of beekeeping. I have forgotten the sugar to >>water ratio for winter feeding. Could someone please help me with this >>one? >> >>John M. Wolford >>jmwolford@kih.net >> >> > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 11:58:34 +0000 Reply-To: elevi@aristotle.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ed Levi &/or Jan Townsley Subject: Re: allozyme analysis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Pilar, I would suggest you contact Dr. Debra Smith at the Univ. of Kansas in=20 Lawence. Sorry I don't have her address. Ed Pilar de la =3D?iso-8859-1?Q?R=3DFAa?=3D =3D?iso-8859-1?Q?_?=3D=20 =3D?iso-8859-1?Q?Tar=3DEDn?=3D wrote: >=20 > Hello bee-L people=A1, >=20 > I=B4m a PhD student from Spain and I=B4m working with honeybees from t= he > Canaries trying to characterize these populations. Now I would like to = do > some allozyme analysis with the enzymes Malate deshidrogenase (Mdh) and > Phosphoglucomutase (Pgm) but I=B4m having some problems with the starch= gels > so I=B4m thinking on changing to acrylamide gels, I will apreciate very= much > any suggestion like bibliography or, specially, recipes for the stainin= g, > buffers, etc. >=20 > Thanks in advance. >=20 > Pilar > Pilar De la R=FAa > Departamento de Biologia Animal > Universidad de Murcia > Apdo. 4021, Murcia, 30071, Spain > Tlf. 34-68-307100 ext. 2308 > Fax: 34-68-363963 > pdelarua@fcu.um.es ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 17:10:59 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: Re: Bee Diets Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" On the subject of bee diets, which I agree makes an important thread that I enjoy on this list: I have asked several times now, and still have never received a reply that I felt had some experimental or nutritional arguments -- "Which is better, full fat or defatted soya flour for the bee's nutrition?" Which do you have a pallet of Allen? Here is what Trevor Weatherhead wrote in August: >Another way is to make patties with sugar syrup and feed it in the brood >chamber. If making patties, you can add extras such as de-fatted soya >flour, torula yeast or brewer's yeast to make the pollen go further. What I know from my own experience is: -I can buy defatted soya flour for half the cost of full fat. -If open feeding then the full fat doesn't blow away as easily and helps to keep the brewer's yeast in place too. -If you eat insect larva, such as bee larvae or some delicious wichitty (sp?) grubs you will soon notice from your greasy lips that they have an extremely high fat content. What I have found in my twenty five year old "Hive and Honeybee": "Very little is known about the nutritional need for fats in honeybees." "The incorporation of corn oil in the basic bee diet (Haydak and Dietz, 1965), did not result in increases in brood rearing activity, hypopharyngeal gland development, or the average dry weight of emerging bees reared on the test diet. It was concluded that adult honey bees do not require supplementary lipids. The incorporation of phospholipids in a basic diet was found to inhibit feeding by honey bees (Robinson and Nation, 1968)." Another discussion noted that bees can manufacture fats needed to make wax from simple sugars. (Chalk up another wonderful feature of our little friends!) BUT, we can make sterols (such as cholesterol) from other materials, while "many insects" cannot. Both we and the insects NEED some sterols. (I always KNEW butter was good for you. It TASTES good for you. Support your local dairy farmers and their nice bee pasture by going back to it if you ever stopped. End of rant. Sorry) Since the bees cannot make cholesterol (24-methylene cholesterol is their major sterol) they have to obtain it in their diet. It *IS* found in pollen and royal jelly. I would very much like to hear more about this, especially any more recent work on the subject. I know when feeding my dairy cows or calves, fat is an important dietary constituent. A calf on a high fat milk replacer does a lot better than one on a low fat. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 17:19:38 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robert Watson Subject: Re: Sugar to Water Ratio Comments: To: Frank & Phronsie Humphrey In-Reply-To: <000a01bd29d8$2dcb12c0$ba506020@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sun, 25 Jan 1998, Frank & Phronsie Humphrey wrote: > As you can see there are almost as many opinions on this subject > as there are on whose queens are best. Years ago a beekeeper > told me to use 1 to 1 by volume in spring and summer. The bees > will reduce it to what they need it to be and the moisture helps > to cool the hive. In my limited experience [three years] I have seen that the bees will ignore the syrup if it is too thin. 1 to 1 by volume seems to work , but more water than that and it just sits there and gets moldy. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 15:49:17 +1200 Reply-To: nickw@beekeeping.co.nz Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Subject: Re: Sugar to Water Ratio In-Reply-To: <000a01bd29d8$2dcb12c0$ba506020@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > As you can see there are almost as many opinions on this subject > as there are on whose queens are best. Years ago a beekeeper > told me to use 1 to 1 by volume in spring and summer. The bees > will reduce it to what they need it to be and the moisture helps > to cool the hive. For fall and winter he advised to put the > sugar in a bucket and add just enough water to completely devolve > the sugar. Worked for me for years. No matter how you mix it > the bees will expend some energy to adjust the moisture level to > their needs. If your Web browser is Java-enabled, there are some interesting calculations related to syrup mixing and use at: http://www.beekeeping.co.nz/convert.htm#sugarmix1 (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- nickw@beekeeping.co.nz (/ NZ Beekeeping http:www.beekeeping.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 21:53:24 -0600 Reply-To: gmc@vci.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: beeman Subject: foundation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit HI All, i was thinking about using plastic foundation, and maybe plastic frames, can anyone tell me if they really work, and their experiences with them?? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 21:03:15 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Bee Diets In-Reply-To: <199801252210.RAA05969@mail1.auracom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > "Which is better, full fat or defatted soya flour for the bee's > nutrition?" Which do you have a pallet of Allen? I believe I have expeller processed soy flour as I understand that the solvent processed is not as good. This is Honeysoy Brand from Minnisota and claims Fat Min 0.1% Fibre 3.3% Max, Ash 6% Max, Protein 49.0% Min, and Moisture 8.0% MAx. Nontheless, I understand that Andy doesn't think, from his own experiments, that soy flour does much unless pollen is available, so the point may be moot. I'm increasing the yeast component vastly this year, since Andy and Mark both swear by it, and a large package outfit I phoned in California also believes in it. I have the anlaysis from California Spray Dry here somewhere -- can't find it right now. Don't recall the fat level. Anyone? Allen ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 23:06:40 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: robert mcmillin Subject: Re: Bee Diets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Stan Sandler wrote: > > On the subject of bee diets, which I agree makes an important thread that I > enjoy on this list: > > I have asked several times now, and still have never received a reply that I > felt had some experimental or nutritional arguments -- > > "Which is better, full fat or defatted soya flour for the bee's nutrition?" > > Which do you have a pallet of Allen? > > Here is what Trevor Weatherhead wrote in August: > > >Another way is to make patties with sugar syrup and feed it in the brood > >chamber. If making patties, you can add extras such as de-fatted soya > >flour, torula yeast or brewer's yeast to make the pollen go further. > > What I know from my own experience is: > > -I can buy defatted soya flour for half the cost of full fat. > -If open feeding then the full fat doesn't blow away as easily and helps to > keep the brewer's yeast in place too. > -If you eat insect larva, such as bee larvae or some delicious wichitty > (sp?) grubs you will soon notice from your greasy lips that they have an > extremely high fat content. > > What I have found in my twenty five year old "Hive and Honeybee": > > "Very little is known about the nutritional need for fats in honeybees." > > "The incorporation of corn oil in the basic bee diet (Haydak and Dietz, > 1965), did not result in increases in brood rearing activity, hypopharyngeal > gland development, or the average dry weight of emerging bees reared on the > test diet. It was concluded that adult honey bees do not require > supplementary lipids. The incorporation of phospholipids in a basic diet > was found to inhibit feeding by honey bees (Robinson and Nation, 1968)." > > Another discussion noted that bees can manufacture fats needed to make wax > from simple sugars. (Chalk up another wonderful feature of our little > friends!) BUT, we can make sterols (such as cholesterol) from other > materials, while "many insects" cannot. Both we and the insects NEED some > sterols. (I always KNEW butter was good for you. It TASTES good for you. > Support your local dairy farmers and their nice bee pasture by going back to > it if you ever stopped. End of rant. Sorry) Since the bees cannot make > cholesterol (24-methylene cholesterol is their major sterol) they have to > obtain it in their diet. It *IS* found in pollen and royal jelly. > > I would very much like to hear more about this, especially any more recent > work on the subject. I know when feeding my dairy cows or calves, fat is an > important dietary constituent. A calf on a high fat milk replacer does a > lot better than one on a low fat.It got so hot and dry last summer that the corn died or did not make ears here in Central Western Pennsylvania. Colonies fed bee pro patties made lots of honey and extra brood!!! Other colonies no patties no honey. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 01:17:19 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Alden P. Marshall" Subject: Brewers Yeast Does anyone know of a brewers yeast supplier within a 75 Mile radious of Boston? (Disregard any Atlantic Ocean locations. Post either myself or the list, depending whether you fell there is other interest out there. Thanks, Alden Marshall B-Line Apiaries Hudson, NH 03051 Busybee9@Juno.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 10:23:16 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Leo Walford Subject: James Riley Dear Bee-l I have been asked if I know how to get in touch with James Riley, who apprently did some research recently on tracking bees in the UK. Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks Leo Walford ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 07:02:40 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Augustus C.Skamarycz" Subject: Re: Sugar to Water Ratio Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:03 PM 1/25/98 -0800, you wrote: >I am into my second year of beekeeping. I have forgotten the sugar to >water ratio for winter feeding. Could someone please help me with this >one? > >John M. Wolford >jmwolford@kih.net > >You should not feed bees in the winter time a watery solution because they have to defacate. and at this time of year their free flight days asre very limited. If you want to feed sugar, use in dry on the inner cove or crown board. The best food you can give the bees is frames of honey. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 07:03:54 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Augustus C.Skamarycz" Subject: Re: Sugar to Water Ratio Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:03 PM 1/25/98 -0800, you wrote: >I am into my second year of beekeeping. I have forgotten the sugar to >water ratio for winter feeding. Could someone please help me with this >one? > >John M. Wolford >jmwolford@kih.net > >Sorry for not giving you the ratio two parts sugar to one part water. 2 to 1. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 14:31:29 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Seppo Korpela Subject: Re: Microwaves and enzymes... In-Reply-To: <1CD13BD015A@beekeeping.co.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Does anyone know of research related to the potential destruction of > the various measurable enzymes of honey caused by microwaves? > > (\ Nick Wallingford > {|||8- nickw@beekeeping.co.nz There was an article in Deutsches Bienen-Journal 3: 78-82 by Werner von der Ohe/Katharina von der Ohe in 1992 entitled "Honigqualitat: der Einfluss der Temperatur [Honey quality: the effect of temperature]." The authors report on their experiments on heating honey either in a water bath at 40, 50 or 60 deg. C or with microwaves. The changes in HMF content and in contents of the enzymes invertase, amylase and glucose oxidase were recorded. The heating at 40 deg. C for 24 h caused neither decrease of enzyme content nor an inrease of HMF content. Treatment with microwawes caused a slight increase in the HMF content but almost a total loss of the enzymes. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Seppo Korpela Agricultural Research Center of Finland Plant Production Research Plant Protection FIN-31600 Jokioinen, Finland Phone INT + 358 3 4188 576 FAX INT + 358 3 4188 584 E-mail seppo.korpela@mtt.fi ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 08:15:01 -0500 Reply-To: mpalmer@together.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Palmer Organization: French Hill Apiaries Subject: Re: Sugar to Water Ratio MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John, have you tried high fructose corn syrup? I've fed it for years now and they do quite well on it in northern Vermont. Have to use enzyme produced hfcs. Your local soda-pop bottler can probably sell you some - especially with a case of honey for the crew. It weighs 11.55 lbs/gal., which is thicker than you can make syrup. Use 55% syrup, so it won't crystalize so fast. We usually buy it by the tanker truck, and split the load between several beekeepers. After 10 years, if there was a problem, I would have heard, yes? Mike John M. Wolford wrote: > I am into my second year of beekeeping. I have forgotten the sugar to > water ratio for winter feeding. Could someone please help me with this > one? > > John M. Wolford > jmwolford@kih.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 08:20:15 -0500 Reply-To: mpalmer@together.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Palmer Organization: French Hill Apiaries Subject: Re: Sugar to Water Ratio MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Forgot to say - HFCS costs us about $.175/lb delivered. What is sugar? $.35? John M. Wolford wrote: > I am into my second year of beekeeping. I have forgotten the sugar to > water ratio for winter feeding. Could someone please help me with this > one? > > John M. Wolford > jmwolford@kih.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 08:30:28 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Frank & Phronsie Humphrey Subject: Re: sugar to water ratio MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0028_01BD2A34.A85D6180" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01BD2A34.A85D6180 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If the this syrup is on the hive and has time to get moldy, it is = because the bees don't need it. As soon as they get sufficient nectar = coming in, they will ignore the syrup. Molding is one of the big = disadvantages of using sugar syrup. If it is not processed promptly by = the bees, it gets several types of mold. Some people say that the bees = don't seem to mind but I would not rather not have something like that = on the hive. I don't have that problem with corn syrup. I stays good = until they use it. Frank Humphrey beekeepr@bellsouth.net ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01BD2A34.A85D6180 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
If the this syrup is on the hive and has time to get moldy, it is = because=20 the bees don't need it.  As soon as they get sufficient nectar = coming in,=20 they will ignore the syrup.  Molding is one of the big = disadvantages of=20 using sugar syrup.  If it is not processed promptly by the = bees,  it=20 gets several types of mold.  Some people say that the bees don't = seem to=20 mind but I would not rather not have something like that on the = hive.  I=20 don't have that problem with corn syrup.  I stays good until they = use=20 it.
 
Frank Humphrey
beekeepr@bellsouth.net
<= /DIV> ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01BD2A34.A85D6180-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 08:37:01 -0500 Reply-To: mpalmer@together.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Palmer Organization: French Hill Apiaries Subject: Re: foundation Comments: To: gmc@vci.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I bought some all plastic frames/foundation this spring to try. We didn't have a very strong flow this year. Even though, of 300 hive bodies, 150 or so were drawn out pretty well. Waxed may be a little better, but where the yard had a good honeyflow, it didn't seem to matter. Some things I don't like: The top bar is awfully thin and bendy. Kind of hard to get that first frame out. Also, they're loud going through the uncapper. beeman wrote: > HI All, i was thinking about using plastic foundation, and maybe plastic > frames, can anyone tell me if they really work, and their experiences > with them?? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 08:22:44 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "FLORENCE COOPER, RN" Subject: Beginners and re-queening My 11 1/2 year old son and I have just overwintered our 1st hive of bees that we keep in our backyard in an urban setting. We started with a nuc last April and had a great year. We extracted 5 shallow supers of honey. The colony appears to have overwintered well as I have seen lots of bees leaving the hive to forage and they are bringing back pollen. So the queen must be laying brood. I have not opened the hive yet to inspect it, but will in a couple of weeks when the weather warms up some more. My main concern is: How important is it that I requeen this colony? Since we beekeep in an urban area, would requeening cut down on the possibility of swarming? Mark and I do plan to split this hive and we will get a new queen for that. A lot of the local beekeepers that we know are not, at this time, doing annual requeening and let their hives raise their own queens. I am reluctant to to this as it is of paramount importance to me that our bees remain gentle. I don't want any complaints from the neighbors. I am also rather apprehensive about how to find the queen. Any helpful hints would be greatly appreciated. Florence and Mark Cooper Jackson, Mississippi, USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 09:47:20 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ed Kear Subject: Re: Treatment for Bee Stings Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes, I've tried it, and it seams to work. ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Treatment for Bee Stings Author: Discussion of Bee Biology at Internet Date: 1/25/98 8:00 AM While dicussing bees with some folks from Cold Lake Alberta a couple of weeks ago I was told that an onion was an effective treatment for bee stings. Supposedly an onion-half held against the stung area provides immediate and lasting relief from pain and swelling. Can anyone on the list verify this treatment? Doug Henry Lockport, Mb ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 10:03:43 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: BEE DIETS PLEASE! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Allen asks about bee diets and Andy stated: > DADANT'S at Fresno is the best first source of information for the > availability of the products needed to make one's own bee diets. So, what does DADANTS at Fresno say on the topic? Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 10:08:30 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Save the Honeybee! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT The information posted regarding the sum donated by General Mills in their "Save the Honeybee" campaign stated $10,000 was donated. Whoever posted that originally, what was the source of that information. I have not been able to find that figure in print anywhere. At two bits per box top, Andy's arithmetic was incorrect, that would be 40,000 boxes, not 20,000. More money for the post office. Now don't get me wrong, $10,000 is $10,000 - an amount not to be trifled with and a sum for which beekeepers should be thankful. Thank you General Mills! Now, the publicity GM claimed was $100,000 worth if they receive 400,000 Honey Nut Cheerios bee charicatures. Thank you General Mills for your generous $10,000 donation. Where did the other $90,000 go? Condolences over Andy's cat. My dog's still kickin, loves them Cheerios and has a very healthy heart! Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 09:50:01 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rett Thorpe Subject: Pollen patties MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I checked my bees on Saturday and was glad to see that they were alive and well. It was a fairly warm day and there was quite a bit of activity so I popped off the top cover and took a peek inside. I could see that nearly all of the 9 frames had sealed honey still waiting for consumption, but I'm not sure how deep into the hive this honey goes ( I understand the cluster moves up). My question is: Are there any signs that you need to start feeding? I certainly want my bees to make it through the winter, but I don't want to do anything to encourage early spring swarming. Also there has been some chatter about pollen substitute patties, Does anyone have a recipe that they would be willing to share? Along with the recipe, any comments concerning the hows and whys of their use would be appreciated . Thanks for your comments Rett Thorpe 1st year, 2 hives, loving it! Salt Lake City, Utah ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 12:53:22 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kelley Rosenlund, WUFT" Subject: Pollen Trap Plans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Does anyone have plans for a pollen trap? I am especially interested in the Canadian style. Thank you. God Bless, Kelley Rosenlund rosenlk@freenet.ufl.edu Gainesville, Florida, U.S.A., Voice:352-378-7510 Fax/voice:352-372-0078 150 hives, Beekeeping since 1995. 8 frame deeps,shallows. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 20:25:24 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rimantas Zujus Subject: Re: Treatment for Bee Stings Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BD2A98.890D7CC0" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD2A98.890D7CC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi My beefriend, being an alergic person to bee stings, uses onions and says it helps him from swelling out. Good luck Rimantas Zujus Kaunas LITHUANIA e-mail : zujus@isag.lei.lt http://www.online.lt/indexs.htm Latitude 55 Deg North Longitude 24 Deg EAST ---------- From: Doug Henry Sent: Sunday, January 25, 1998 10:08 AM To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Subject: Treatment for Bee Stings While dicussing bees with some folks from Cold Lake Alberta a couple of weeks ago I was told that an onion was an effective treatment for bee stings. Supposedly an onion-half held against the stung area provides immediate and lasting relief from pain and swelling. Can anyone on the list verify this treatment? Doug Henry Lockport, Mb ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD2A98.890D7CC0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IhkSAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAMAEAAAEAAAAMAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAATwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAERpc2N1c3Npb24gb2Yg QmVlIEJpb2xvZ3kAU01UUABCRUUtTEBDTlNJQk0uQUxCQU5ZLkVEVQAAHgACMAEAAAAFAAAAU01U UAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAABgAAABCRUUtTEBDTlNJQk0uQUxCQU5ZLkVEVQADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAA HgABMAEAAAAcAAAAJ0Rpc2N1c3Npb24gb2YgQmVlIEJpb2xvZ3knAAIBCzABAAAAHQAAAFNNVFA6 QkVFLUxAQ05TSUJNLkFMQkFOWS5FRFUAAAAAAwAAOQAAAAALAEA6AQAAAAIB9g8BAAAABAAAAAAA AAIENQEEgAEAHQAAAFJFOiBUcmVhdG1lbnQgZm9yIEJlZSBTdGluZ3MA0AkBBYADAA4AAADOBwEA GgAUABkAGAABADYBASCAAwAOAAAAzgcBABoAFAANACwAAQA+AQEJgAEAIQAAADMwMDJBNTQ0ODA5 NkQxMTFCOEY0NDQ0NTUzNTQwMDAwAKcGAQOQBgA8BQAAFAAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAmAAAAAAALACkA AAAAAAMALgAAAAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkAgLCZxIcqvQEeAHAAAQAAAB0AAABSRTogVHJlYXRtZW50 IGZvciBCZWUgU3RpbmdzAAAAAAIBcQABAAAAFgAAAAG9KofEiESlAjGWgBHRuPRERVNUAAAAAB4A HgwBAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAfDAEAAAASAAAAenVqdXNAaXNhZy5sZWkubHQAAAADAAYQYaHa MQMABxBUAgAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAASElNWUJFRUZSSUVORCxCRUlOR0FOQUxFUkdJQ1BFUlNPTlRP QkVFU1RJTkdTLFVTRVNPTklPTlNBTkRTQVlTSVRIRUxQU0hJTUZST01TV0VMTElOR09VVEdPT0RM VUNLUklNQQAAAAACAQkQAQAAAKsDAACnAwAACgcAAExaRnUPcysE/wAKAQ8CFQKkA+QF6wKDAFAT A1QCAGNoCsBzZXRuMgYABsMCgzIDxRGXMVQ4NgAAKgLhYQeAICcHEwKABxMgQgdAdGmKYwKDMxEn cHJxEvG/E58UoQdtAoAHbRWaNBMH9xb/FE8VXjUTDxzQD+8CAO42Hy8c3x3ufQqACM8J2eI7JY8y NTUCgAqBDbHBC2BuZzEwNhZQCwqLEvIMAWMAQCBIaQqF4QqFTXkgYgngA1AIkJhuZCwrkQuAZyAD kUsHQASQZxXgIHAEkHORAiAgdG8rkiBzFdB1KJBzLDB1EfAEIAIgaZcCIAQgAHBkLjBheQQgQmkF QGhlbHAEIGitB3AgA1IuMHcwUGwsckkIYHQuKpxHbwRwIHkKQGNrKpwK+xZRKfZSjwdwAHABkAQg WnVqLsAxM+VLYXUjEDamTEmAVEhVQU5JQSqcjGUtAMADETogejZyokAEAGFnLizwaTqQXnQz5wtk G1IqBWgCQHDQOi8vdz0QLgIgMXEaZTrRLwuADbB4cy6VPKBtN4ZhFdB0dQ2wRiA/gSfQIERlLJBO 7SUxaDPvO8xMAiAtID9DNDI0P+NFKU8qUEFTLlRAizFwIpAwAtFpLfgxNDQN8AzQRmMLXBvw7G90 BZAFQC1IhzsNC8f9SAZGA2E50EcfSCQMgj/gywhgLJBICfByeUkvSj2vBmACMEtvTHtTN0BkL9D1 LDBKAHB1CsArgCfALDAQMTk5OFMwMDowmVNwQU1N70o9VG9QLwFMe0JFRS1MQEMATlNJQk0uQUyC QjhAWS5FRFVUH3FO/nViakhBVj9Me1S/JZA/EAeAAjAw0AWxQi4RzlMuUzN/RZMzNkcHIYLNR9lX MKAs8CBkFeAuwP8AkCyBK6EEIAPwQGAuMANwcyNAAhBsawQgMOMIUGxrL6A/AGsjQWwroAAgYTUs oCAFoHULUCNAb2a7QIUxQGVkcTpwLeBJY5D/NjEt0GURQGA/ECyiLxNn46cDkQ3BSEFpdiNAdF3r FyuhQIUuRC5R8XBwb1kR8GRsK4Bo1i0RwGz+ZjAyL6A6cAtxLkBocS4inzdALJFd4S1QA2B2aQ2w /zamB3AHgGKwPxAjQC+CC2D9LkMgJZAxcA3AMNRAsAuAly90MUVsUEMssm55AiD/ZoEtsTBAQIUx cG6hakAGge8rgEBgBABqaD8qnE1PQnDPM1BsoAAgLDBNYl9fYG4vKcVIBkCFJLEAfZAAAwAQEAAA AAADABEQAAAAAEAABzAAPCcjhiq9AUAACDAAPCcjhiq9AR4APQABAAAABQAAAFJFOiAAAAAAAwAN NP03AACyeg== ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD2A98.890D7CC0-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 12:55:55 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Pollen patties In-Reply-To: <61A1CFAB40BDCF119B3B080009D624A8282E62@sterwent.sterwent.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Also there has been some chatter about pollen substitute patties, Does > anyone have a recipe that they would be willing to share? Along with > the recipe, any comments concerning the hows and whys of their use would > be appreciated . This topic has been covered extensively in here in the past. Of course there is great need for additional new ideas and nutritional information, as well as experiences but for the basics, consult your beekeeping texts and search the BEE-L logs for 'supplement', 'substitute', 'pollen' and/or 'patties' as well as 'nutrition', and 'protein' Asan example: you can search the BEE-L archives by sending email to LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU saying SEARCH BEE-L protein Allen --- Newsflash! Visit http://www.beekeeping.co.nz/beel.htm to search BEE-L archives the easy, easy way or to update or change your subscription options. --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 12:53:59 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: Save the Honeybee! In-Reply-To: <980126.102249.EST.SYSAM@cnsibm.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:08 AM 1/26/98 -0500, you wrote: >At two bits per box top, Andy's arithmetic was incorrect, that would be >40,000 boxes, not 20,000. More money for the post office. >Now don't get me wrong, $10,000 is $10,000 - an amount not to be trifled >with and a sum for which beekeepers should be thankful. Thank you >General Mills! Hi Bee Friends, I believe the information about the money paid out by GM was contained in a letter from GM's PR Department that was quoted and posted in this group. I also believed that the deal was that GM would match the funds collected via the box tops, but heck the day after GM put out the press release with the original information on their Save The Box Top's campaign I did call the 800# and requested the press kit, twice, and I never heard back from them. I got a little concerned that maybe we as beekeepers were being used so I checked with the NHB in Denver and their side of story was not GOOD. This I believe I reported early on to this group. Indecently the more I looked into GM and their relationship with the honey industry the more doubts were at least raised in my mind on the viscosity, (well I could'nt spell the other one), of their efforts on the behalf of Honeybees or their keepers. Their interest are getting cheep honey and using it to promote their products. GM efforts on behalf of Honeybees or beekeepers is no different then getting some gold medal winner to indorse their products except it costs them very little money, and they are trading on our beekeeping problems and not our successes. In any case what we got is better then a stick in the eye and I hope everyone has learned a lesson that if we have a problem we must turn inward for the solution and be a little suspicious of those who do not have the problem even if the are well meaning, or respected story tellers for the desert southwest selling books. ttul, the OLd Drone (c)Permission is given to copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 15:55:54 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: The Bee Works Subject: Re: Sugar to Water Ratio In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 25 Jan 98 at 17:19, Robert Watson wrote: > In my limited experience [three years] I have seen that the bees > will ignore the syrup if it is too thin. 1 to 1 by volume seems to > work , but more water than that and it just sits there and gets > moldy. I picked up some information off this list some time ago regarding mould in sugar syrup. We feed extensively even in the summer and were troubled by mould and fermentation, but now add 1 tablespoon per gallon of apple cider vinegar when making up syrup. No more problems!!!!. ******************************************* The Bee Works, 9 Progress Dr, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1 Phone/fax 705-326-7171 David Eyre, Owner. http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks e-mail ******************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 21:58:57 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Peter Fruehwirth Subject: AW: Microwaves and enzymes... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We never heat honey with microwaves, because of destruction of the enzyme invertase. Our governmental food policy will confiscate the >destroyed< honey, because we have a prescribed minimum level of invertase in our codex for honey (honey codex from the European community). Peter Fruehwirth queen breeding station for the Originally Austrian Carniolian Queens fruehwirth.aca@netway.at > -----Ursprungliche Nachricht----- > Von: Seppo Korpela [SMTP:SEPPO.KORPELA@MTT.FI] > Gesendet am: Montag, 26. Janner 1998 15:31 > An: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Betreff: Re: Microwaves and enzymes... > > > Does anyone know of research related to the potential destruction of > > the various measurable enzymes of honey caused by microwaves? > > > > (\ Nick Wallingford > > {|||8- nickw@beekeeping.co.nz > > There was an article in Deutsches Bienen-Journal 3: 78-82 by Werner von > der Ohe/Katharina von der Ohe in 1992 entitled "Honigqualitat: der > Einfluss der Temperatur [Honey quality: the effect of temperature]." The > authors report on their experiments on heating honey either in a water > bath at 40, 50 or 60 deg. C or with microwaves. The changes in HMF > content and in contents of the enzymes invertase, amylase and glucose > oxidase were recorded. The heating at 40 deg. C for 24 h caused neither > decrease of enzyme content nor an inrease of HMF content. Treatment with > microwawes caused a slight increase in the HMF content but almost a > total loss of the enzymes. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Seppo Korpela > Agricultural Research Center of Finland > Plant Production Research > Plant Protection > FIN-31600 Jokioinen, Finland > Phone INT + 358 3 4188 576 > FAX INT + 358 3 4188 584 > E-mail seppo.korpela@mtt.fi > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 21:41:40 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Peter Fruehwirth Subject: AW: Pollen Trap Plans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Kelley, there are two books, where pollen traps are discribed: The Canadian floor-type (with foto) in The Illustrated Encyclopedia of Beekeeping, by Roger Morse and Ted Hooper, p.300 - 301; and an Australian type (with plan and foto) in Bees an Beekeeping, by Eva Crane. The last one we have rebuild for our hives in Austria, Europe. With the Australian type we had very good success in our cold mountain climate (short period of flowering in the spring-maybe 3- 4 weeks and an than one or two weeks with honeydew from the pruce). Tomorrow (European Greenwich time) i will try to send you the descriptions per fax. I hope it will work. With regards Peter Fruehwirth from cold snow-covered Austria queen breeding station for Originally Austrian Carniolian Queens fruehwirth.aca@netway.at fon+fax: 01143 732 78 52 84 > -----Ursprungliche Nachricht----- > Von: Kelley Rosenlund, WUFT [SMTP:krosenlund@JOU.UFL.EDU] > Gesendet am: Montag, 26. Janner 1998 18:53 > An: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Betreff: Pollen Trap Plans > > Does anyone have plans for a pollen trap? I am especially interested in > the Canadian style. Thank you. > > God Bless, > Kelley Rosenlund rosenlk@freenet.ufl.edu > Gainesville, Florida, U.S.A., Voice:352-378-7510 Fax/voice:352-372-0078 > 150 hives, Beekeeping since 1995. 8 frame deeps,shallows. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 16:50:51 -0500 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" Organization: Independent non-profit research Subject: Re: Save the Honeybee! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi every one. I remember posting a rather lengthy explanation of my experience when I tried to verify GM's nationally advertised campaigned (my wife watched on TV and tape recorded it). Rather than repeating myself, I'll summarize it thus: total frustration. Personally, I think that BEEKEEPING did not get a good deal out of this one. GM would have donated the funds for research anyway since donations of this type are tax deductible! IMHO, Honey bees and Joe Q. Public got taken for a ride. Speaking of research funds: I will be posting a separate note on Bee-L regarding research funding. I hope that most of you read it and that some of the replies are "flame free." Best regards. Dr. Rodriguez Virginia Beach, VA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 18:05:29 -0500 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" Organization: Independent non-profit research Subject: Research funding MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All: Knowledge gained using FGMO during the past two beekeeping seasons has demonstrated that FGMO is an effective acaricide. Manual application as employed up to present date, has proven to be effective for small operations but not for commercial beekeeping. This year, I am planning to add two modifications to the procedure in an effort to make the procedure cost effective for large scale beekeeping. Planned changes required considerable expense in equipment, bee packages, queens and travel. Financing my work projects considerable strain on my personal and family finances; hence outside support is considered as highly desirable. I would appreciate guidance regarding potential funding sources. Realizing that success may definitely depend on budgetary restrictions, I have decided to seek outside financial support, however conditional. Outside of rigorous financial accountability, I would not accept conditions restraining publication of my findings. Unorthodox as my work might seem, I would never accept binding impositions that ultimately result in limitations and virtual gag orders for publication of my findings. The benefit of expertise of those of you who have traveled this route in the past will be greatly appreciated. Best regards. Dr. Rodriguez Virginia Beach, VA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 20:57:38 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Patrick & Mary Caldwell Subject: Re: Sugar to Water Ratio MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi Andy... Do you know of any sources in Northern California for HFCS? I will be starting my first hive (yay!) the first week in April, and want to do the best for my bees. I'd even come down to Los Banos if I had to! Anyway, I'd appreciate your advice... Thanks for all of your help! Mary Caldwell Benicia, CA -----Original Message----- From: Andy Nachbaur To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Date: Sunday, January 25, 1998 11:41 AM Subject: Re: Sugar to Water Ratio >At 01:03 PM 1/25/98 -0800, you wrote: >>I am into my second year of beekeeping. I have forgotten the sugar to >>water ratio for winter feeding. Could someone please help me with this >>one? > >You can only dissolve so much sugar in a know amount of water and I presume >you want to feed your bees sugar and not water. > >When you have reached the maximum amount of sugar that can be de solved it >will float. > >In the old day when we fed bagged or dry sugar we would use hot water to >speed up the process, in any case you will never end up with the same >amount of sugar you can get by using HFC or Invert syrup which many bee >suppliers keep on hand not only for the commercial beekeepers but also will >sell in small amounts like five gallons, in some case to the smaller >beekeeper. You should not expect to pay for the water in the syrup, (so you >must know something about the sugar solids in the syrup), and you may find >it less expensive to buy it for a local commercial beekeeper, bee supply >store, bakery, soda bottler, or a thousand other bulk users of sugar. >Cultivating these sources of supply has more then once led to nice honey >purchase contacts for the future production of many beekeepers and >sometimes a trade of a few jars of honey in opening the door can be more >then rewarding as food manufacturing establishments are not into getting >the last drop of sugar out of that 2,000 gallon tank out back. I know small >beekeepers that get all the sugar they can use just by draining what is >left and would be washed down the drain of tanks, tankers and RR tank cars >used for sugar if you are into that kind of work. > >ttul, the OLd Drone- > >... I said, but just to be a bee > > >(c)Permission is given to copy this document >in any form, or to print for any use. > >(w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 20:59:58 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Re: bee diets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re the question raised by Stan Sandler. Here in Australia we have been told that full fat soya will kill bees hen= ce using de-fatted. Re Andy's comment about not raising a frame of brood on soya flour, here = in Australia I have seen bees working on Caley's ironbark, a winter flowe= ring eucalypt, which were fed de-fatted soya flour in the open. The Cale= y's ironbark has no pollen and bees will cannabilise their brood when the= y are placed on it if not supplementary fed. With access to the soya flour, they did maintain about 3-4 frames of bro= od. So we can get frames of brood with soya flour. If there was no soya= , the bees would be broodless. By the way, that was two years ago and = the bees produced a great crop of honey. Several years previously when the Caley's ironbark flowered, the bees wer= e fed patties made on soya flour, torula yeast and pollen and again the = bees maintain 3-4 frames of brood. Hives not fed patties did not have = any brood. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 13:57:56 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: A.laboriosa/dorsata querie Hi Gene You mentioned a bit about being interested in these bees and the possibility of keeping them. They are from what I have read rather unfriendly, building up to very large swarms. Individual bees live longer and the actual covering of a beehive is made with bees (bee screen). Defence strategies include dropping of handfuls of bees to defend a hive. Keeping these bees anywhere else in the world must be a bad idea, given how mving A.cerana around has dstroyed and made less profitable a lot of the worlds honey industry through transplantation of A.cerana's little friend varroa to A.mellifera. We know not what they carry, and it is not worth the risk given how difficult they would be to keep. With A dorsata one would have a big tree with bees on it. Every change of season, the bees would migrate up to 500km away, and then migrate back to a simlar area. This is difficult to control. Keep well Garth --- Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Apis melifera capensis Grahamstown 800mm annual precipitation 6139 Eastern Cape South Africa Phone 27-0461-311663 On holiday for a few months Rhodes University Which means: working with bees 15 hours a day! Interests: Fliis and bees Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this post in no way reflect those of Rhodes University. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 11:33:21 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: yves steinmetz Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" SEARCH BEE-L protein ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 12:26:56 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: EDHC Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: What is the Pollen Source? Cattails? Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I was feeding my hives in southern New Mexico where I am overwintering them and I noticed that they had began brood rearing. The bees were collecting a cream colored pollen. It was on the legs of the bees and and in the cells around the brood. Last fall I had the bees on white and yellow clover in the mountains and moved them to this warmer location over the winter, The pollen from the clovers were more of a red/orange color. In searching the source of the pollen in the area all I could find was some bees in the lower portion of the spikes (hairy portion that is seed bearing) of cattails (Scientific Name: Typha spp.) In reading "Western Edible Wild Plants" by H. D. Harrington, he mentions on page 9 - 11 that the spike contains pollen and alludes to the fact that it will last from fall into spring until it has been blown away by the wind. He also talks about collection of the spikes for pollen to use in baking and that it can be stored for long periods of time after a treatment in an oven at 350 degrees F. Has anyone had any experience with this plant or ones like it that continue to hold pollen throughout the dorment times of the year for use by bees as a food source? Is the pollen from this plant a good source of brood rearing food for bees? Ed Costanza Edgewood, New Mexico, USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 20:57:01 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rimantas Zujus Subject: varroa Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Luca wrote I want to know what do you think about use of Oxalic Acid in treatments = against Varroasis. I'm very satisfied of it. I didn't try Oxalic acid myself but some beekeepers are satisfied with = it. They spray it a few times in August There is noticed that after such = spraying the bees don't take food (sugar syrup) from a feeder about 2 = days. Furthermore, some beekeepers accuse the Oxalic acid of a Queen = sterilising (stops egg laying ). .Some beekeepers like formic acid. But sometimes bees are killed. The = reason is supposed to be very great amount of Varroa mites in a colony. = It means too much holes in a body of everyone bee. Some use a net on a hive bottom and an exciting means, for eg : garlic, = horse-radish, juniper, hop, etc. Rimantas Zujus Kaunas LITHUANIA e-mail : zujus@isag.lei.lt http://www.online.lt/indexs.htm Latitude 55 Deg North Longitude 24 Deg EAST ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 15:25:57 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: RDHEWITT Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: bees flying in the cold Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit My bees are out in weather so cold I woulden't expect it. 30f +- In central Connecticut. One hive in particular seem to be out more than the others. Could this be an indication of trachal mites in that hive causing them to want to run or get out? Rod Hewitt ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 18:49:42 +0200 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jan Tempelman Organization: Home Subject: Re: What is the Pollen Source? Cattails? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Detemineting pollen on their colour seen to my the same as deteminating trees on the colour of their leaves (read someware that the Indians have 80 different words for green) The only thing you can do is make a pollen preparation and try to find it in the pollenbooks how to make a pollen prep on>>> http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/pollenprep.html EDHC wrote: > I was feeding my hives in southern New Mexico where I am overwintering = them > and I noticed that they had began brood rearing. The bees were collecti= ng a > cream colored pollen. It was on the legs of the bees and and in the ce= lls > around the brood. > > Last fall I had the bees on white and yellow clover in the mountains an= d moved > them to this warmer location over the winter, The pollen from the clov= ers > were more of a red/orange color. In searching the source of the pollen= in the > area all I could find was some bees in the lower portion of the spikes = (hairy > portion that is seed bearing) of cattails (Scientific Name: Typha spp.= ) > > In reading "Western Edible Wild Plants" by H. D. Harrington, he mention= s on > page 9 - 11 that the spike contains pollen and alludes to the fact that= it > will last from fall into spring until it has been blown away by the win= d. He > also talks about collection of the spikes for pollen to use in baking a= nd that > it can be stored for long periods of time after a treatment in an oven = at 350 > degrees F. > > Has anyone had any experience with this plant or ones like it that cont= inue to > hold pollen throughout the dorment times of the year for use by bees as= a food > source? > Is the pollen from this plant a good source of brood rearing food for b= ees? > > Ed Costanza > Edgewood, New Mexico, USA -- =B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0= =B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0= =B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0 Jan Tempelman / Ineke Drabbe | EMAIL:jtemp@xs4all.nl Sterremos 16 3069 AS Rotterdam, The Netherlands Tel/Fax (SOMETIMES) XX 31 (0)10-4569412 http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/index3.html =B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0= =B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0= =B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0=B0 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 15:47:54 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "A.S. Chesnick" Subject: Styrofoam hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit anybody selling styrafoam hives? Pros and cons of them? if so contact me with prices Ian Chesnick 8 Champion tr Fairfield PA 17320 chestnic@cvn.net 717 642 8888 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 15:32:05 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: RICHARD BARNES Subject: Re: bees flying in the cold Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I have had several out flying in around 40 F wether. Some were just going out "to use the bath room". I had one hive that was very active and upon inspection, they were out of food and the bees were foraging. To say the least, I am feeding that hive. Richard Barnes At 03:25 PM 1/27/98 EST, you wrote: >My bees are out in weather so cold I woulden't expect it. 30f +- In central >Connecticut. > >One hive in particular seem to be out more than the others. Could this be an >indication of trachal mites in that hive causing them to want to run or get >out? > >Rod Hewitt > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 22:34:27 +0100 Reply-To: drs@kulmbach.baynet.de Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dr. Reimund Schuberth" Subject: Re: varroa MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Rimantas in our beekeeping magazines there has been a discussion about the use of oxalic acid for a long time. Do my opinion it is rather dangerous to use this acid and it is far more dangerous than formic acid. Steer clear of it. The reasons are - oxalic acid is a poison (MAK-values in USA 1 mg/m3 to my opinion) especially when you spray it one should use gloves, protecting glasses or even a gas mask. Incorporation of oxalic acid may cause damage of human heart and kidneys. - oxalic acid is easy to solv in water and so in honey too. If you use it in the wrong season you can contaminate your honey. - the success of treatment isn't better than with other substances. - it is a lot of work to take out one comb after the other and spray the substance on them. If you want to spray an acid onto the bees you better should use lactic acid. It works rather good and is also used in foods. > Some beekeepers like formic acid. But sometimes bees are killed. The reason is supposed to be very great amount of Varroa mites in a colony. It means too much holes in a body of everyone bee. This is also a very adequate mean for fighting varroa mites. Perhaps the best way to use by a long time evaporating system. Formic acid also kills mites within capped cells. > Some use a net on a hive bottom and an exciting means, for eg : garlic, horse-radish, juniper, hop, etc. I've never heard of that. Does it work? I would be afraid that honey absorbs the smell of these substances. Dr. Reimund Schuberth beekeeper in Germany (Bavaria) insemination station queen breeding of Carniolan queens ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 17:50:36 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: varieties of plastic foundation Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I have recently been getting prices for various plastic foundations, as I have several thousand old frames that I want to get back into service. I have found that pierco makes a plastic foundation, there is one called Rite cell that Mann Lake offers, one called plasticell from Dadant, and I seem to recall from letters to this list that there is one called permadent (I haven't found someone selling that yet--anyone know?) I am not interested in duragilt, as the plastic is not imprinted with cell pattern (and I also do not want to reopen the LONG debate about duragilt from last year). I have found that all the prices are very close to each other. Could anyone who has used more than one of these compare the quality please. My only personal experience with plastic is with pierco frames. I have been told by one of our local beekeepers that some of the plastic foundations have a deeper drawn cell than pierco and are much more readily worked by the bees. I assume that the pierco foundation is the same depth of cell as the pierco frame. Thanks in advance for your help Stan ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 17:50:36 -0600 Reply-To: ribac@wi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Randy, Isa & Alina Chase" Subject: Re: bees flying in the cold MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I had a hive swarm the day after a significant snowfall this winter. Needless to say, it didn't get very far. The remains were cleaned up by the local critters over a three day period. It was an experiemntal hive to begin with and I didn't expect it to make it through the winter. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 15:54:02 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Martin Braunstein Subject: Apiguard Comments: To: max.watkins@vita.demon.co.uk Content-Type: text/plain Dr.Watkins, During Sept. '97 at the Apimondia meeting held in Antwerp, there was a pamphlet announcing the upcoming launching of Apiguard (a new product against varroa), the brochure didn't say much about the active ingredient though it emphasized it was a slow release gel including a natural product. Is it formic acid? If not what is it? When will it be released for sale? In a previous message you had advised that after the worlwide merging of Sandoz and Ciba a new company would take care of the bee products (Vita), however I heard a company called Wellmark is marketing some products formerly sold by Sandoz, could you please clarify the relationship between Vita and Wellmark and which of them has jurisdiction over South America? Look forward to hearing your reply. Regards. Martmn Braunstein - Malka Cabaqa Apmcola ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 19:11:43 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Augustus C.Skamarycz" Subject: Re: varieties of plastic foundation Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 05:50 PM 1/27/98 -0500, you wrote: >I have recently been getting prices for various plastic foundations, as I >have several thousand old frames that I want to get back into service. I >have found that pierco makes a plastic foundation, there is one called Rite >cell that Mann Lake offers, one called plasticell from Dadant, and I seem >to recall from letters to this list that there is one called permadent (I >haven't found someone selling that yet--anyone know?) I am not interested >in duragilt, as the plastic is not imprinted with cell pattern (and I also >do not want to reopen the LONG debate about duragilt from last year). > >I have found that all the prices are very close to each other. Could anyone >who has used more than one of these compare the quality please. My only >personal experience with plastic is with pierco frames. I have been told by >one of our local beekeepers that some of the plastic foundations have a >deeper drawn cell than pierco and are much more readily worked by the bees. >I assume that the pierco foundation is the same depth of cell as the pierco >frame. > >Thanks in advance for your help >Stan > >I've used both RITE-CELL and PIERCO inserts both work very good the secert is put the frames on during a honey flow. Both Have Pluses. Bees winter very well on plastic. Have wintered 5-Frame Nucs on Plastic in Northern Mass. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 19:02:50 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: Sugar to Water Ratio In-Reply-To: <01bd2ae0$173608e0$090637a6@asdf> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=====================_885985370==_" --=====================_885985370==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" A good place to start in Northern California... DADANTS $ SONS 15 C. Valley Ct. Chico, Ca 95973 530-893-0921 or At 08:57 PM 1/26/98 -0800, you wrote: >Do you know of any sources in Northern California for HFCS? I will be >starting my first hive (yay!) the first week in April, and want to do the >best for my bees. I'd even come down to Los Banos if I had to! Anyway, I'd >appreciate your advice... --=====================_885985370==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="dadants.txt" Dadant & Sons P.O. Box 2837 2765 South Golden State Blvd. Fresno,CA 93745-2837 Ph 209-495-0230 Fax 209-495-0232 Take Highway 99 to E. Jensen Ave. Go East on E. Jensen Ave to Golden State Blvd. Proceed South on Golden State Blvd. The Branch in on the right side of the road going South. Bee sure and tell Pat the OLd Drone sent you and ask for your special gift. For a map on how to find the place go to: http://www.dadant.com/fres.htm --=====================_885985370==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" --=====================_885985370==_-- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 21:24:59 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." Subject: First Swarm of the season Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Fellow Beekeepers: Well it looks like S Calif is going to have a great bee season. With the so called "El Nino" climate and its frequent rains, the early Blue Gum Euc bloom has created ideal conditions for colony build up. Some local beekeepers cannot get the supers on fast enough!! :) On Sunday, I caught my frist swarm of the season, a very large swarm from one of my hives that landed 15 feet up in an oak tree. After sawing the branch off and lowering it gingerly with a rope, the swarm filled an entire broon chamber. With these great weather conditions, I am wondering of the AHB is going to finally move northward from the Imperial Valley into the coastal regions of S calif. The future of beekeeping in California is going to get interesting!! :) Paul Cronshaw DC Hobby Beekeeper Santa Barbara, CA USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 00:37:25 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "MR WILLIAM L HUGHES JR." Subject: foundation Comments: To: gmc@vci.net Use a mix of all plastic frames & foundation. If there is a good flow the bees will pull them out. One draw back is they tend to bend if they are full of honey. <> ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 22:16:42 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Patrick & Mary Caldwell Subject: Re: Sugar to Water Ratio MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Thanks, Andy! I'll check out Dadant's... Mary -----Original Message----- From: Andy Nachbaur To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Date: Tuesday, January 27, 1998 7:06 PM Subject: Re: Sugar to Water Ratio >A good place to start in Northern California... > >DADANTS $ SONS >15 C. Valley Ct. >Chico, Ca 95973 >530-893-0921 > >or > > > > > > >At 08:57 PM 1/26/98 -0800, you wrote: >>Do you know of any sources in Northern California for HFCS? I will be >>starting my first hive (yay!) the first week in April, and want to do the >>best for my bees. I'd even come down to Los Banos if I had to! Anyway, I'd >>appreciate your advice... > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 22:23:38 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Reddell Subject: Re: Sugar to Water Ratio Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> This is a very important subject since bees must "perform actual >> work", and thus spend energy removing the water from the food given to them >> (in the sugar syrup). The recommended ratio is; twice the amount of sugar >> to water BY WEIGHT! You must weight the sugar and the water. Aside: It >> does not hurt if you overdo the amount of sugar, but it does if you overdo >> the amount of water. It's not quite this simple. If you're feeding to pack away stores, the above paragraph is true. But if you are trying to stimulate brood rearing, a 1/1 ratio works better. The bees have to dilute honey to feed it to their brood, and are more inclined to store heavy syrup than to convert it to brood. Nectar, which has a much lower sugar content than any syrup you are likely to feed, is a key stimulus to brood rearing. Some people feed 2/1 syrup as needed in the Fall, and 1/1 syrup in January and February to kick start broodrearing. Michael ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 11:45:44 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Re: NATIONAL HONEY BOARD IMHO Walter, I think you said it very well. The only problem is the "NHB" is all we have. It would certainly be better to have something else, but the NHB was established by an act of congress and as a matter of reality it exists and we have to work with it. In my opinion, the real problem is that the US only produces 47% of the honey that is consumed. If we were producing 80%-90% and honey were sitting in warehouses because it couldn't be sold it would be another matter. -----Original Message----- From: Walter Patton To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Date: Saturday, January 24, 1998 1:56 PM Subject: NATIONAL HONEY BOARD IMHO > I have been a tiny/small producer & packer of Hawaii honey for the past 5 >years. Some how the National Honey Board got my name a long time ago and >started writing me. I quickly saw where they wanted me to send them one >penny per lb. of honey that I bought from others and one penny per lb. of >all the honey I produced and packed in excess of 6,000 lb. per year. I >ignored the letters for a long time. Finally they NHB started calling me >and talking like the police and I finally asked just who in the hell they >were and by what authority did they threaten me. The sweet sounding >female voice on the other end said yes to my question if she could show up >at my house with Federal marshals if I refused to participate. WELL I >decided to cave in and play ball. > Since then I have been a real team player. I did and do have real concerns >for the expansion of their authority, powers and allowing them to collect >2 pennies on every lb. of honey from producers over 6,000 lb. Let me tell >about my observations. The transaction reports are required for each and >every transaction completed. No matter if you do several transactions with >the same producer in one month you have to make one transaction report per >transaction. They also want/require your final report for the year >by January 15th. IRS gives us till April 15th. The NHB has busted me >several times because I feel it is reasonable that if several TR are with >the same producer that I should be able to list only his name and say "on >file" for his address, city, zip, and phone number. No, NO, No, says the >NHB compliance officer not even in the computer age. > What do they do? Lots of honey promotion specifically designed to aid the >mass marketing honey packer companies. The national advertising is good >and needed and it should promote 100 % USA honey and educate the public to >read the sources of origin( interestingly the sources of origin does not >have to be reflective of the % of honey for the listed countries, in other >words if the sources of origin say US, China, Argentina the amount of US >honey may be the smallest % of the honey) and look for a buy only 100 % USA >honey. I was in Dallas at Thanksgiving and looked at the honey section in a >major super market and they did not have any !00 % US honey. The other area >that they NHB visibly do a lot of work is in the area of International >foreign market promotions. I have sent honey to Paris, Germany, & the >middle east. Sounds good and these efforts are mostly usable by the large >packers. Now if the packers were only exporting US honey fine AND the >amount of honey imported to the USA in outrageous. There are US bee keepers >and more could be developed if a stronger price were being offered to US >beekeepers for their honey. It is disgraceful not to be more supportive of >US beekeepers with the huge demand for pollination. For US beekeepers to >have to compete with the foreign producers and their fast and loose ways of >operation. Just read the USDA reports on China and Argentina. Both have had >dirty honey in the past. These 2 pennies that the NHB wants to collect will >both be paid by the producers no matter what they say the producer will pay >the TAX.. > How in the wide , wide world could any allegedly beekeepers organization >support putting more packers and even foreign importers on the Board of >Directors of the NHB is way beyond me. It approaches being amazing that >the NHB would not consist of a majority of producers real producers not >producers representing packers. Better yet why not abolish the NHB and >establish a marketing assessment collected by a 100 % beekeepers >organization that would work relentlessly for US beekeepers. The United >States of America is being traded away at an alarming pace. > BEEKEEPER UNITE we can not leave the beekeeping advocacy to quasi >beekeeper associations. They have gotten too big and political in their >approach . This is yet another area that independent bee keepers must >address. Again like Certified Organic when the victimized independent >beekeeper do nothing on this issue what will happen? Wheres the money? >Packers. Packers want the NHB because it ends up be corporate subsidy to >help the packers buy and sell more foreign honey and to brow beat US >producers to be competitive with foreign producers. > > Best of Bees to all , Walter > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 16:05:04 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Beekeeping in the Bahamas (the "family islands") Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi, Andros (and others who might be interested). You inquired: >Is anybody on the list a Bahamian beekeeper? Before I became a Vermont >beekeeper I used to be able to buy a very dark honey produced on an >island somewhere near (but not on) Harbour Island. Apparently this >beekeeper went out of business. I would really like to introduce bees >and beekeeping to Harbour Island and am hopeful I can find a beekeeper >on a nearby island willing to fix me up with a split to get us going. >I'd be happy to supply the equipment. On the largest island of the Bahamas, Andros, I saw four hives along the road just south of the airport on North Andros (near the town of San Andros). Apparently, a successful Seventh Day Adventist group has an extensive farming operation there, including beekeeping --- I'm sure they have more than four hives. You didn't indicate where you live, but I have a list of a score of Bahamian tourist offices that you could contact. Contact me directly (not over the net), indicate your location, and I will send you the information about the tourist office closest to you. Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 893-2838 (UCSB office) Ecol., Evol., & Marine Biology (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Univ. of Calif., Santa Barbara (805) 963-8508 (home office & FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 *********************************************************************** * "Discovery is to see what everyone else has seen, * * but to think what no one else has thought." * * --- Albert Szent-Gyorgyi * *********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 11:53:22 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Garry Libby Subject: Killer Bees Wimp out Legendary Killer Bees wimp out at border (Boston Sunday Herald Nov.16,1997) Remember Killer Bees?Like something from a blockbuster summer movie,these alien invaders were going to sweep up the Yucatan Peninsula into the United States,wreaking havoc as they spread northward. But since crossing the U.S. border near Hidalgo,Texas,in 1990,they ve moved little from the strongholds they ve established in the Southwest. Researchers now say these tropical bees may have reached what will be roughly their northern limit in the United States,an area that includes only the sourthernmost United States. A lot of the extreme ideas about these bees have been thrown out, said William L.Rubink,a research entomologist with the U.S. Department of Agriculture s Honey Bee Research Laboratory in Weslaco,Texas. Basically,what we ve seen is that the movement north seems to start decreasing about the 30-degree(latitude)mark.That s pretty much where we saw it decreasing in South America also as they spread south into more temperate climates of that continent,he said. Native to Africa,these bees with an attitude were imported to Brazil in 1956 as part of a genetics experiment.No honeybees are native to either North or South America. In 1957,some of the African bees escaped and began to interbreed with existing Brazilian wild European honeybee populations,passing along their aggressive traits in the process. The bees have colonized parts of four states-Texas,Arizona,New Mexico and California.But since 1994,they ve added no new states to that list and have not moved much farther in those four states. -Newshouse News Service ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 18:08:38 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gcbowley Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: Best of Bee's First Anniversary Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Personally, I am grateful for efforts to have this a nice forum. Thanks for all the sacrifice everyone who is involved makes to make it happen. Gene Bowley In a message dated 1/21/98 11:44:09 AM, you wrote: >From: Allen Dick >To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > >> We are pleased to announce Best Of Bee... As the volume has grown on >> BEE-L, a number of members have grown tired of receiving large numbers >> of messages daily, many of which are sent in error or not of general >> interest. Many worthy subscribers have simply given up and left... > >Thanks Al for passing that on. That was the original announcement for >BoB. I noticed just the other day that it is now the first anniversary of >Best of Bee (actually I got reminded by my annual bill from my provider :) > and it got me thinking... > >One year ago, BoB was a controversial upstart. Our goals were to try to >satisfy a wider range of readers by filtering out some of the tomfoolery >here on BEE-L for the more time-challenged and/or sensitive among us, >while leaving the BEE-L list open to free speech for the rest of us in the >proletariat. > >Free speech by its very nature is free (surprise) and naturally includes >everything from the erudite, polite and informed to the facetious, >ignorant and accidental. The right to free speech sometimes has to be >accompanied by the freedom not to listen :) We at BoB leaped into the >breach. > >Have we accomplished anything? I note, looking back that BoB has relayed >about 2,100 messages -- about 6 per day. I wish it had been fewer, but >it is sure hard to tell which post is going to be the nugget some reader >has been waiting for. I'm not sure how many messages passed through BEE-L >in that time, but I suspect it must be at least twice that 2,100. >Routinely, many posts passed on to BoB are edited to ensure quick >readability and to foster steady blood pressure and tranquility in the BoB >readership. (FWIW, I even cut my own innocuous posts back a bit -- for >BoB only). > >I receive no complaints at all from the 440+ BoB subscribers -- even when >I request feedback -- so I guess they are mostly happy or the server is >down. FWIW, I know they sure weren't pleased when they suddenly started >getting BEE-L again the other day, so I guess that proves something. >However, I also do know that -- while we are steadily gaining readership >on BoB -- we do lose people from BoB continuously, so maybe there is a >natural lifetime for toughing it out on a list. Between the two lists, >BEE-L and BoB, subscribership seems to top out around 1,200 (total) and, >of course, we have to assume quite a bit of duplication between the two >lists. I also know there are some who frequent sci.agriculture.beekeeping >and never post here. > >Here on the BEE-L, I think most everyone -- the current crop of survivors >at least -- are happy, too. Sure we have misdirected posts, occasional >binaries, HTML posts, excessive quotes followed by 'Ata boy", a little >pushing and shoving, and some foolin' around, but we have never had any >really serious flame wars. Actually I can only remember two or three >(hmmm... maybe four or five) real flames and they died out fast. It seems >everyone usually ends up friends. And, since BoB started I think there is >a whole lot less grumbling here on BEE-L than there used to be. > >What does the future hold for BEE-L and BoB? I don't know. Some day I >hope to see some form of moderation here on BEE-L to damp out the >accidental posts -- and the empty ones and the binaries, but not to stifle >free speech. However, as an editor myself, I realise it is a job for >someone -- and not a small job. I personally regard the BEE-L logs as a >source of fascinating and searchable information and cringe everytime I >see them diluted or polluted with long quotes, misinformation, and >binaries (including my own). > >But then I am only one, and for others BEE-L is many other things -- and >we do have to share. That is what makes BEE-L so vital -- the fact >that no one viewpoint dominates. Sharing means compromising and accepting >things are not going to always go the way we may personally wish. >(FWIW, Sometimes, late at night, as I sit here at my ancient 486 2DX50, I >imagine that -- perhaps -- there are even a few misguided souls reading >BEE-L who do *not* wait in eager anticipation for my next missive. Such >base lack of appreciation is hard to imagine, I know, but I suspect it must >be true from my knowledge of statistics, human nature -- and selected >readings from my inbox). > >While I am waiting upon the day that BEE-L is moderated, I personally find >BEE-L a real treasure and spend a lot of time panning here for gold. That >gold, I try to refine for BoB. Sometimes I add in a bit from >sci.agriculture.beekeeping too, although the signal to noise ratio is >*much* better here IMO. > >In considering both these lists and their value to myself and others, I >have to thank all the people who internationally give so freely and >selflessly of things that in some industries might be considered 'trade >secrets'. When I look back, I have to say that participating on BEE-L >has certainly improved my beekeeping, my writing skills, and perhaps done >something for my outlook and diplomacy (some may argue). Thank you >everyone for your patience and good humour. > >As for BoB in 1998, we'll keep on trucking and hope that BoB continues >growing and keeps with us at least some participants who would >otherwise just fade away. > >Allen > > >----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- >Return-Path: >Received: from relay24.mail.aol.com (relay24.mail.aol.com [172.31.106.70]) by >air07.mail.aol.com (v37.8) with SMTP; Wed, 21 Jan 1998 11:44:09 -0500 >Received: from sysx.systronix.net (mail.millennium-realty.com [204.209.166.9]) > by relay24.mail.aol.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) > with SMTP id LAA26529 for ; > Wed, 21 Jan 1998 11:43:01 -0500 (EST) >Received: from pool1-9.internode.net by sysx.systronix.net (NTList 3.02.13) id >sa111662; Wed, 21 Jan 1998 09:34:09 -0700 >Comments: Authenticated sender is >From: "Excerpts from BEE-L" >Organization: BestOfBee@systronix.net >To: Bestofbee@systronix.net >Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 09:33:44 -0600 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII >Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT >Subject: Best of Bee's First Anniversary >Reply-To: BEE-L >Priority: normal >X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) >Message-Id: <16340832807775@systronix.net> >X-ListMember: Gcbowley@aol.com [Bestofbee@systronix.net] > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 08:58:23 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gcbowley Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: A.laboriosa/dorsata querie Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Certianly more research in their native lands is required. As these wild bees will have traits that are just as undesireable as those that are that doesn't mean they should be ignored. I would like to learn if they have resistance to the mites and other illnesses. It is only a matter of time that someone will introduced them to the americas. I do not know how much attention the A.laboriosa/dorsata are getting but I think they should be getting more than they are. Since my knowledge of bees is still quite limited, I am not in a position to have a real opinion. It is my gut feeling that there are important genetic traits, that if developed, could really improve bee strains. Thanks for the input Gene ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 12:05:46 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: The Bee Works Subject: Re: DNA. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I have just finished reading the latest issue of BeesCene out of British Columbia and I am sure they won't mind me quoting from it regarding a letter published there. Quote" The recent developements in DNA fingerprinting, as used by the police, has applications in bee keeping. It has been used to investigate open mating of queens and reveals the match between genetic materials and therefore how closely the two samples are related. The research shows that in an open mated, mature queens colony:- a) The workers, on average came from 10 different drones. b) There are roughly equal numbers of workers from the 10 drones, so the queen not only stores the sperm but also uses it equally and randomly. c) Since each worker will have obtained a random half of the queen's chromosones all those which came from any of the 10 drones will be three quarters related to each other (all chromosones from the one drone are the same) and have three quarters of their characteristics alike; but on average they will only be one quarter related to the 90% of all other workers in the colony which came from a different drone parent. So the workers have an enormous amount of variation in their characteristics. d) When a swarm occurred the workers did not divide randomly; they divided very much according to their drone parents, the swarm consisting very largely of workers from only three or four drones. If DNA samples from queens and drones could be compared during a breeding program, then maybe the results could be used to improve selection in the future. (From a talk by Prof Beament to the Cambridge Beeks, via BEES.) Makes you think? Certainly it has blown a number of old wives tales out the water. Comments anyone? ******************************************* The Bee Works, 9 Progress Dr, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1 Phone/fax 705-326-7171 David Eyre, Owner. http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks e-mail ******************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 12:12:08 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: DNA. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT > Certainly it has blown a number of old wives tales > out the water. > Comments anyone? Old wives shouldn't be on the water in the first place! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 09:57:22 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: Killer Bees Wimp out In-Reply-To: <08f3c3557161918UPIMSSMTPUSR04@email.msn.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:53 AM 1/25/98 -0500, you wrote: >Legendary Killer Bees wimp out at border >said William L.Rubink,a research entomologist with the U.S. >Department of Agriculture s Honey Bee Research Laboratory in >Weslaco,Texas. >Mexico and California.But since 1994,they ve added no new >states to that list and have not moved much farther in those four >states. What was left out is that they are no longer looking or have reduced by x million $$ money wasted spent on looking. Port of Entry, Sea Ports, are still actively searching and finding AHB's outside the of so called infested areas. California bee regulators got a shock when the tried to look out ahead of these so called AHB's and found them. Some suggest what they are and have found is really not AHB but other genetic material that has been around for years. But the fact is they are no longer looking, and relie on samples of bees reported by the public. From day one I have suggested that the traps be moved to the northern boarder and I predict that within a short time the AHB will be confirmed and we can end all this wasted time and money by declaring the USA infested by AHB and get back to keeping healthy bees and producing honey. The USDA has hyped and lied so much about the AHB to the point it is hard to believe what they have to say and it makes as much sense as listening to the old Zipper (Clinton) give a class on morality in marriage or what I do in the White House when I ain't working on the plans to bomb Iraq's woman and children. ttul, the OLd Drone Los Banos, California ... I said, but just to be a bee (c)Permission is given to copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 13:19:32 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Midnitebee Subject: Eucalyptus Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0017_01BD2BEF.5EF16B60" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01BD2BEF.5EF16B60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greetings! i received this message..can someone help this person..? -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------- I was interested in buying the Eucalyptus Honey, which is = notmechanically=20 pressed and not heated, in the manufacturing process.Please confirm = ,if you=20 manufacture such type of honey, and if availablethe packing and the = price.=20 Please confirm ,if there is any localstockist in Houston Texas = 77095Thanks in=20 advanceMadhukar GodbleHouston Texas 77095Email < avg@sccsi.com > Holly-B Apiary P.O.Box 26 Wells,Maine 04090-0026 www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01BD2BEF.5EF16B60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
 
 
Greetings!
i=20 received this message..can someone help this person..?
----------------------------------------------------------------= ------------------------------------
I was interested in buying the Eucalyptus Honey, which is = notmechanically=20
pressed and not heated, in the  manufacturing  = process.Please=20 confirm ,if you
manufacture such type of honey, and if availablethe = packing=20 and the price.
Please confirm  ,if there is any localstockist = in=20 Houston Texas 77095Thanks in
advanceMadhukar GodbleHouston Texas = 77095Email=20 < avg@sccsi.com >
 
 
Holly-B = Apiary
P.O.Box=20 26
Wells,Maine 04090-0026
www.cybertours.com/~midnit= ebee
------=_NextPart_000_0017_01BD2BEF.5EF16B60-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 08:55:23 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Walter Patton Subject: Re: NATIONAL HONEY BOARD IMHO 2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank you LLoyd for the compliment and the response. I always like statistic's and wonder where you got your information. I also question if it is 47 % of the honey consumed or 47 % of honey packed by packers. I can't believe that more red blooded US Americans would not take up bee keeping if the wholesale prices of honey were better. Many made strong commitments by expanding their operations when the wholesale prices were up last year and now the expansion has come to a halt with the lower prices I recognize that the NHB is a real part of the beekeepers life mandated by congress at the request of honey industry ( mostly packers) . So we can not arbitrarily abolish the NHB and the bee keepers of America could control the growth and direction that the NHB takes in the future if we could get up off our collective lethargic dead behinds and make our voice heard .It has always amazed me that beekeeping takes more courage, grit and determination then most occupations and yet beekeepers are willing to be like the masses in America who are like oysters sitting on the ocean floor with their mouth wide waiting for whatever might fall in regarding Beauracratic Intervention into their lives. This bothers me and I fear for my children's future if these feelings of impotence expressed by the masses by not voting, staying informed about the issues, and not challenging the issues as they are brought forth by the Beauracrats at the urging of some special interest groups who have learned the ease of buying influence. I do not pretend to know the answers and I do know that the issues should be decided by the group that the action will affect. The NHB pending action will cost all U S honey producers of any size a penny per pound in addition to the penny per pound that the bee keeper pays when his price is reduced by the first handler. The money could be well spent and the US producers should have the control always in how the program is structured. Hells Bells we pay for it. Whoops I'm about to over look the huge contribution by the packers for the 88,000,000 million pounds of honey that was imported last year. And man they should not be forgotten and they do have the control. If producers got control maybe the fee for foreign honey could be 2 or 3 pennies per pound. All these foreign countries have Value Added Tax, Duties, and Tariffs or restrictive import regulations that make it costly and difficult to export US honey into their country. And the advertising dollars are important and we could spend more of the money on advertising at home to drive up per capita consumption in AMERICA. Maybe we could make the sources of origin statement accurately reveal the amount of US honey is in the jar. About corporate subsides why should US taxpayers pay for "Branded Marketing Program " which is brokered by the NHB to pay 50 % of cost that are incurred by a company trying to enter a foreign market. Mostly for large companies as there is a $ 10,000 minimum. Problem is that the large packers get 50 % of there marketing efforts paid for by federal subsidy and they sell imported honey. I hope I ' m not too far off on my statements and if I am I can take the heat, flame away. My fellow beekeeper Americans it is time for us all to take a stand and collectively, like our beloved honey bees worked towards the common goals that will reinforce and jump start the US Beekeeping Industry. We could put some of our young and retired people to work tending to the Divine pollinators, and keep America strong. Some one please advise if this posting gets on Best of bee-l. ---------- > From: Lloyd Spear > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Re: NATIONAL HONEY BOARD IMHO > Date: Sunday, January 25, 1998 6:45 AM > > Walter, I think you said it very well. The only problem is the "NHB" is all > we have. It would certainly be better to have something else, but the NHB > was established by an act of congress and as a matter of reality it exists > and we have to work with it. In my opinion, the real problem is that the US > only produces 47% of the honey that is consumed. If we were producing > 80%-90% and honey were sitting in warehouses because it couldn't be sold it > would be another matter. > -----Original Message----- > From: Walter Patton > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Date: Saturday, January 24, 1998 1:56 PM > Subject: NATIONAL HONEY BOARD IMHO ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 19:14:39 +0000 Reply-To: luichart.woollens@virgin.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Harry Goudie Organization: Luichart Woollens Subject: Ban on Bee Cures MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi All, I thought I would bring to your attention an article from the Sunday Telegraph 30/11/97 which is copied in the February issue of the Scottish Beekeeper. It is about a new regulation, "Statutory Instrument No. 1729" which in effect makes it illegal to use any chemical treatment for Varroa except licensed substances. In Britain, I think, this means that only Bayvarol is permitted. The punishment for using non-licensed substances, acids, chalk, volatile substances etc (I would think this includes mineral oil) is a fine up to =A35000. We are therefore, as far as chemical treatment goes, in the hand of the Bayer company. I hope that if the mites become resistant to Bayvarol that Buyer will come to our aid! = -- = Harry Scotland Knitwear Web pages: http://freespace.virgin.net/luichart.woollens/ Beekeeping Page: http://freespace.virgin.net/luichart.woollens/page8.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 15:03:50 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: DNA. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Apologies to old wives for my flippant response to Dave's DNA study post. Old wives can go wherever they please! After spending more grey matter on Dave's post I offer the following. > ... open mating of queens reveals ... > a) The workers, on average came from 10 different drones. The operative word here is "average". It is commonly asserted that queens mate with between 10 and 20 drones. Quoted study puts it closer to 10. Nothing earth shattering here. > b) There are roughly equal numbers of workers from the 10 drones, > so the queen not only stores the sperm but also uses it equally > and randomly. This is contrary to what I learned at queen rearing school where the assertion was that semen from different drones remained separate and got used in batches. Drone 1, then drone 2, ... then drone x, where x varied from 10 to 20. However that assertion seemed flawed to me at the time because I couldn't fathom how the sperm stayed segregated within the queens' spermatheca. Brownian motion aside, we're talking live swimming critters here - or are we? Don't want to be anthropomorphic. Regardless, the study seems more like how I would imagine it would HAVE to work. Put 10 samples in a container and the samples should get mixed up, like a drop of red dye in a container of water eventually yields a contained of pink water. > c) ... the workers have an enormous amount of variation in their > characteristics. Again, expected (obvious), nothing earth shattering. Startin' to sound like an expensive study to conclude the obvious. > d) When a swarm occurred the workers did not divide randomly; they > divided very much according to their drone parents, the swarm > consisting very largely of workers from only three or four drones. To me this is the most interesting revelation from the study! The swarm splits along the strongest family lines! Kind of like the Hatfields take wing and the McCoys stay home. Did the study say anything regarding the ages of the swarming bees? Did the swarm consist of all ages of like-father bees? How do the drones decide whether to stay or swarm? There is no "family allegiance" in their case. Raises all sorts of interesting questions which probably will never get answered. > If DNA samples from queens and drones could be compared during a > breeding program, then maybe the results could be used to improve > selection in the future. Hmmm - not sure how this could be accomplished. DNA footprint for queens can be obtained from any of her male progeny, DNA footprint for donor drones can be obtained from the drone (mating kills them anyway), so now we have our footprints, but to what end? This kind of study will have left the realm of open mating and moved into AI, but again, what do these DNA footprints gain for us? I guess a better mapping of traits of the players (queens and drones) but again it seems like high priced science to accomplish that which an observant queen breeder is already doing. Dave, am I over simplifying here? I mean it's a very interesting study and all, the bit about swarms split along party lines is REAL neat, as is the mixing and random use of sperm, but I don't see what is gained. The useful applications elude me. I bet a week's wages Andy would call this BS! Aaron Morris - yada, yada, yada! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 10:12:34 +1200 Reply-To: others@beekeeping.co.nz Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Subject: List of links... Comments: To: bkprs@beekeeping.co.nz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Summary: Msg to others@beekeeping.co.nz will email an up to date list of beekeeping related links on the Internet ------------------------------------------------------------------- For some time now I have maintained a list of links to beekeeping sites on the Internet. Originally, it was just my own set of bookmarks. Later, I maintained the information in a spreadsheet that helped to generate a page for my Web site. More recently, I set up a proper database that let's me maintain and generate the page with less effort. You can find the page at http://www.beekeeping.co.nz/others.htm I've just modified the reporting slightly so as to be able to provide the file by email as well. That way, after receiving the message and saving it to your own disk, you could view the file 'locally' and even set it as your own bookmarks page if you wish. To get the file sent to you at any time, send a message to others@beekeeping.co.nz but remember this is an automatic facility - I never see or read any messages you write to that address, so if you want to comment on the list, write to my personal address nickw@beekeeping.co.nz If you press the REPLY button on your mail programme while you are reading this, it *should* address the mail to that address - please check it before you press send so we don't plaster the list with clutter!!! (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- nickw@beekeeping.co.nz (/ NZ Beekeeping http:www.beekeeping.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 16:58:07 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Paul Bashore Subject: Re: Killer Bees Wimp out In-Reply-To: <199801281800.KAA15484@mail.thegrid.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >what I do in the White House when I ain't working on the plans to bomb Iraq's >woman and children. > >ttul, the OLd Drone >Los Banos, California > Would you rather we just let him build weapons of mass destruction so he can rule all the ARAB NATIONS and put a death hold on the USA through controlling the worlds major oil supplies? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 18:18:56 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Bartlett Subject: sugar water MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Seems the amounts of sugar to water by weight is a problem for some. For hobbiest beekeepers like myself I use a gallon milk jug which when filled with water weighs 8 lbs. If you have a ten pound bag of sugar, just dump acouple of pounds out into some container. Mix. You have a one to one mix. Two jugs of water and a ten pound bag of sugar and a five pound bag. Dump a little water out and mix. For a two to one mix, one gallon jug of water and a 5 and a 10 pound bag of sugar. Just dump a little water. This is not rocket science. For all you Metric people out there, you will have to help me out. billy bee ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 18:12:04 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Richard Drutchas Subject: DNA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I kinda liked the sperm cookie theory. I even had myself convinced that sometimes when you have a hive that turns on and off mean it could be there was a hatch of one of those mean subfamilies. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 15:43:39 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: Killer Bees Wimp out In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980128165807.007a5bf0@oklahoma.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 04:58 PM 1/28/98 -0600, you wrote: >>what I do in the White House when I ain't working on the plans to bomb >Iraq's woman and children. >Would you rather we just let him build weapons of mass destruction so he >can rule all the ARAB NATIONS and put a death hold on the USA through >controlling the worlds major oil supplies? I guess you are right, bomb em right now,....today, before the price of fuel goes down any lower and all of us get to see a little financial relief at the gas pump. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 01:13:53 +0100 Reply-To: Michael Haberl Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Haberl Subject: Re: DNA. (I missed the original post since I am on the BestofBee list, and I hope your replies to this mail seem important enough to Allen to post them to BestofBee as well.) I think I should comment on this as I am working with genetic analyses in honey bees too. The following labs are involved in this kind of DNA research in honey bees according to my knowledge (alphabetically): A. Estoup (France; but he is no longer working on bees) R.F.A. Moritz (Germany) B.P. Oldroyd (Australia) R.E. Page (USA) (me, who used to work with R.Moritz, but am now a one person group) In the following I will refer to publications by the persons (et al.) mentioned above. Please e-mail me directly if you want the exact citations. > The research shows that in an open mated, mature queens > colony: > > a) The workers, on average came from 10 different drones. That is about right, but variation is quite large here, both between subspecies in species, and between species: average # of subfamilies found in the sample +/- SD Apis mellifera mellifera 11.5 +/- 0.7 carnica 13.0 +/- 8.5 ligustica 20 (1 colony only) Apis andreniformis 13.5 +/- 4.5 dorsata 26.8 +/-10.8 florea 8.0 +/- 3.7 mellifera 13.8 +/- 5.5 These data were obtained by taking samples of about 20-200 worker bees. The sampling error may be high in some cases. So, these data have to be considered to be minimum estimates. As the genetic analyses are relatively expensive regarding time and money, only a few colonies have been investigated at all. There are more data available by now that are in the process of publication. Striking is the high number of subfamilies found in A.dorsata. Correcting for sampling error it can be concluded that the queens of these dorsata colonies have mated with up to 53 (!!) drones. Drone density and weather are likely to be reasons for inbetween subspecies variation. > b) There are roughly equal numbers of workers from the 10 drones, so > the queen not only stores the sperm but also uses it equally and > randomly. This needs not to be true. At least in most of the cases where worker samples were sufficiently large, the number of workers from different drones in the colonies investigated differed significantly. But I see no reason to decide this question for all queens, i.e. to say ALL queens use the same amount of sperm from each male, or ALL queens produce different numbers of workers from each drone. Two things are often mixed in this context: paternity frequency and sperm usage. A queen can well fertilize the eggs in unequal paternity proportions, but still use the sperm from her spermatheca at random. And this seems to be true for most queens at least. I have an article about sperm usage in BES coming up soon. (I am always unsure about this copy-right thing, but I will post the journals web-adress to the list.) > c) Since each worker will have obtained a random half of the queen's > chromosones all those which came from any of the 10 drones will be > three quarters related to each other (all chromosones from the one > drone are the same) and have three quarters of their characteristics > alike; but on average they will only be one quarter related to the > 90% of all other workers in the colony which came from a different > drone parent. So the workers have an enormous amount of variation in > their characteristics. These statements were purely concluded from theory, and have not anything particular to do with genetic analysis. Characteristics are not genes! In fact, two workers of the same subfamily will have more than three quarters of their characteristics in common, because genes can have DNA sequences that are subtle different but still produce the same protein. > d) When a swarm occurred the workers did not divide randomly; they > divided very much according to their drone parents, the swarm > consisting very largely of workers from only three or four drones. I would be curious to see the reference for this. I only know of two investigations: Getz et al. (1982) performed experiments with 2 colonies headed by artificially inseminated queens (one cordovan, one Italian drone): Colony 1 group size cordovan normal Swarm bees 25700 79 % 21 % Remnants 11000 64 % 36 % Colony 2 group size cordovan normal Swarm bees 22500 58 % 42 % Remnants 7800 43 % 57 % There is a statistically significant difference in the composition of swarm and hive bees in both colonies. However, there is obviously no clearcut division of subfamilies. Subsequent research suggested that cordovan workers just have a higher tendency to swarm. Kryger and Moritz (1997) used two colonies headed by naturally mated queens (number of matings >= 21 and 24, respectively). Their work was intended to investigate potential kin recognition, i.e. worker's potential power to recognize the relatedness towards offspring queens (the hypothesis being that workers of the same subfamily as the young queen should preferentially join the after-swarm). The authors found that the subfamily distribution in the mother colonies before swarming was significantly different from the subfamily frequencies in the primary swarm. They conclude that the various subfamiles have different propensities for swarming. Furthermore, they found different subfamily distributions between mother colonies and after-swarms. However, again almost all subfamilies were present in all 3 samples (mother colony, primary, after). They found no significant difference between primary and after-swarms. They conclude that the effects of kin recognition were less than 2 %. ____________________________________________________________________ Michael Haberl Zoologisches Institut der Uni Muenchen Tel: ++49 89 5902-444 Luisenstr. 14 Fax: ++49 89 5902-450 80333 Muenchen e-mail: haberl@zi.biologie.uni-muenchen.de Germany http://www.ebe-online.de/home/mhaberl/index.htm ____________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 19:26:22 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: GImasterBK Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: sugar water Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit You surely have heard "a pint is a pound" (in water yes - but not honey) I part water and 1 part sugar = 1 pound of water (1 pint or 2 cups water) plus 1 lb. sugar is 1:1 syrup and is used in late winter and early spring to stimulate queen laying PARTICULARLY IN STATES THAT HAVE ONLY AN EARLY NECTAR CROP LIKE APRIL AND MAY. 2:1 syrup (2 lbs. sugar dissolved in just one pint of water) is winter stores and fed in the fall. It is very difficult to dissolve 2 parts of sugar in just one part of water, UNLESS THE WATER IS BOILING WHEN YOU ADD IT TO SUGAR You can prevent sugar syrup forming MOLD by simply adding 1/4 teaspoon of Cream of Tarter (Found at any grocery store in spice dept) to a gallon of syrup. Caution: If you feed 1:1 as a queen stimulant (I have for years), you MUST thoroughly understand SWARMING - not control or swarm collection, but understand the bee biology about swarming, so you have few or zero swarms. I strongly suggest reading Dr. Norm Gary's Chapter 8 in the new HIVE AND HONEY BEE. I insist that all my short course attendees read and study that chapter. George Imirie, MASTER BEEKEEPER, Began beekeeping 65 years ago, 1933 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 18:03:12 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: DNA. Comments: To: haberl@zi.biologie.uni-muenchen.de In-Reply-To: <9801290013.AA19620@wap18.zi.biologie.uni-muenchen.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > (I missed the original post since I am on the BestofBee list, Not true. At least, if you missed it, it should not have been due to being on Best of Bee. Just to set the record straight -- all Best of Bee subscribers did -- or should have received -- the original post by David Eyre which was titled 'Re: DNA'. It is possible that the posts may have arrived out of order, USENET style with the reply before the question, but they were all there. FWIW, I have learned over the years to check my mailbox contents before bothering to write a long response, since I often find someone else has already answered the question or made a comment, or that the original post has been retracted or modified. At any rate, in this case, the use of Re: in the original title may have caused some to conclude that the post in question was a reply, however it was, in fact, the original post and 'Re:' in this case meant 'regarding DNA', not regarding a post entitled 'DNA'. I go to pains to mention this, rather than let it pass, because I would not want people thinking I would omit such an interesting and relevant contribution on Best of Bee. Granted, sometimes I do not immediately convey an original post where the subject or presentation is of marginal interest, redundant or off topic, but I do publish replies (including quotes of the original sufficient to get the drift) if the reply is at all useful or thought-provoking. > and I hope your replies to this mail seem important enough to Allen to > post them to BestofBee as well.) Certainly. Intelligent discussion of these important topics are what we are here for and your contribution is much appreciated. Allen ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 21:20:34 -0400 Reply-To: eunice.wonnacott@pei.sympatico.ca Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Eunice Wonnacott Subject: Re: Why bother? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aaron Morris wrote: > > Somebody hates somebody and lots of somebodies hate others who who don't > use smileys and isn't there a list moderator to catch these posts in the > first place!?! > > Well no there is no formal moderator. However the list IS self > moderated. After all, didn't the first hate poster get called on his > hate message (which most recognized as a joke) but COULD legitimately > have been misconstrued as a REAL hate message by subscribers from a > non-US culture, some of whom thankfully have the sensitivity to > recogonize the possibility that hate doesn't always mean hate but > sometimes means hate? > > BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH! > > Hopefully, eventually this list will mature to the point that when > someone posts something not worthy of comment that we will refrain > from wasting the bandwidth to do so! > > Aaron Morris - thinking this'll waste a lot more bandwidth! Aaron: Thank you for this. It is no easier to recall (meaning take back) a hasty comment in this medium than any other. I have learned a lot here, and I appreciate it. The other thing that is very difficult to express in print is the feelings that are in the words. Hopefully I will be able to think a lot more before writing in the future. Again, thank you. Eunice ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 20:30:39 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Bartlett Subject: fish MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01BD2C2B.98B73000" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BD2C2B.98B73000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lis, This is my latest. ------=_NextPart_000_01BD2C2B.98B73000 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="remember the fish.doc" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Description: remember the fish (WordPad Document) Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="remember the fish.doc" 0M8R4KGxGuEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAPgADAP7/CQAGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAA EAAAAgAAAAEAAAD+////AAAAAAAAAAD///////////////////////////////////////////// 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Got in a hurry and my mouse was running wild! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 19:18:24 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Walter T. Weller" Subject: Re: Killer Bees Wimp out Andy, I hate to disagree, but while what you say may be true in California, it does not seem to be true in Texas, which is the heartland of the AHB invasion. There are swarm traps every mile across Texas from the Louisiana border to the New Mexico border, and they are checked every two weeks (or so the head bee inspector for Texas tells me). There are also lesser trap lines gridded in behind the big one. With all this deployed, they have seen only a couple of counties added to their "infected" list in the last two years. On Wed, 28 Jan 1998 09:57:22 -0800 Andy Nachbaur writes: >What was left out is that they are no longer looking or have reduced >by x >million $$ money wasted spent on looking. Port of Entry, Sea Ports, >are >still actively searching and finding AHB's outside the of so called >infested areas. California bee regulators got a shock when the tried >to >look out ahead of these so called AHB's and found them. Some suggest >what >they are and have found is really not AHB but other genetic material >that >has been around for years. But the fact is they are no longer looking, >and >relie on samples of bees reported by the public. Walter Weller Post Office Box 270 Wakefield, Louisiana 70784 _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 19:27:16 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John M Thorp Subject: Re: DNA. I like to take my wife along to keep the hooks baited and fish cleaned. Take Care and GBY-John in Homestead- -also at Jesus Christ Is The Only Answer,Joshua24:15 On Wed, 28 Jan 1998 12:12:08 EST Aaron Morris writes: >> Certainly it has blown a number of old wives tales >> out the water. >> Comments anyone? > >Old wives shouldn't be on the water in the first place! > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 21:03:27 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: GImasterBK Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: Re: fish Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I suggested you as a speaker for a meeting of ASMB. BUT don't be a hurry and leave that MOUSE at home ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 18:05:39 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Andy Nachbaur by way of Andy Nachbaur " Subject: (fwd) Ban on Bee Cures Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: "Harry Goudie" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Ban on Bee Cures Date: 28 Jan 1998 19:12:55 GMT Organization: Luichart Woollens Lines: 18 Message-ID: <01bd2c1f$070ad280$LocalHost@default> NNTP-Posting-Host: 194.168.67.125 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155 Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!inquo!news.uoregon.edu!news.nero.net!news.BSDI. COM!uunet!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.cableol.net!not-for-mail X-Agent-Group: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Hi all, An article in the February issue of Scottish Beekeeper which was taken from the Sunday Telegraph 30/11/97 talks about the new regulation "Statutory Instrument No. 1729" which in effect bans all chemical Varroa treatments except Bayvarol. The punishment for using any unlicensed chemicals being a fine up to =A35000. =20 I think that this will make it unlawful to use any of the acids, volatile substances and even mineral oil unless they are licensed. In Britain. I suppose it is a good idea in that if anything goes wrong then there is only one thing to blame, Bayvarol, but what happens when the mites become resistant to this chemical. Will Bayer come to our aid?? --=20 Harry=20 Scotland Knitwear Web site: http://freespace.virgin.net/luichart.woollens/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 18:13:55 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: Killer Bees Wimp out In-Reply-To: <19980128.193253.13902.3.feliciana@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 07:18 PM 1/28/98 -0600, you wrote: >Andy, I hate to disagree, but while what you say may be true in >California, it does not seem to be true in Texas, which is the heartland >of the AHB invasion. There are swarm traps every mile across Texas from >the Louisiana border to the New Mexico border, and they are checked every >two weeks (or so the head bee inspector for Texas tells me). There are >also lesser trap lines gridded in behind the big one. With all this >deployed, they have seen only a couple of counties added to their >"infected" list in the last two years. Sorry your are right, I should have added some states such as Texas do have state programs which have replaced Federal programs and can continue from now on if there is the will, money, and political support and there is no beekeepers asking any questions as to their purpose, just maybe because of the fear of persecution or having their bees inspected to death. ttul, the OLd Drone (c)Permission is given to copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 21:29:30 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "James B. Riley" Subject: Re: James Riley Well, my names is James Riley, but I am not the person you are looking for. There must be more than one of us. JBR -----Original Message----- From: Leo Walford [SMTP:leo.walford@sagepub.co.uk] Sent: Monday, January 26, 1998 5:23 AM To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Subject: James Riley Dear Bee-l I have been asked if I know how to get in touch with James Riley, who apprently did some research recently on tracking bees in the UK. Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks Leo Walford ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 21:30:41 -0500 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" Organization: Independent non-profit research Subject: Re: A.laboriosa/dorsata querie MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All. I seem to have read recently (I quite can't remember if it was here on Bee-L) that Varroa was now davastating dorsata populations in Asia. This thread is worth pursuing. Best regards. Dr. Rodriguez Virginia Beach, VA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 20:49:13 -0600 Reply-To: gmc@vci.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: beeman Subject: Re: fish MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Bill, please beecareful about files you might upset someone and they(she)will tell you're ISP (hee hee) ;) Bill Bartlett wrote: > Sorry about the post on the fish. Got in a hurry and my mouse was running > wild! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 21:01:49 -0600 Reply-To: gmc@vci.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: beeman Subject: swarms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit if anyone from western KY wishes to buy swarms please contact me!! i am selling them at $35 per swarm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 14:48:58 +1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Set Nomail Digests Subject: Re: Swarm Control In-Reply-To: <199801250501.QAA14899@solar.accsoft.com.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > > Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 12:41:01 GMT > From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd > Subject: Swarm Control > > Hi All > > This is my second year at beekeeping, and I am presently trying to get a firm > grip on swarm control, especially as I have hives in a suburban garden.... > > My hives are also in a suburban area. Swarm control in this environment is important as the neighbours (especially those with children) can get quite concerned. I have a few comments to make which I hope will help : 1) A previous email comment about requeening is important, as young queens seem less likely to swarm. Requeening can also be used to calm down a 'nasty' hive. 2) I was taught that rather than wait for the first signs of swarming, you should manipulate the hive as the warmer weather approaches. On the first manipulation 2 or 3 frames of capped brood are moved from the brood box to the next super. The capped brood is placed near the centre of the super so that it stays warm. The spaces are filled with frames of fully drawn comb (as there are not many young bees after winter to lay new wax). The queen than has room to lay her eggs. This procedure is repeated about 3 weeks later however this time frames with foundation only are added so that the new bees can get to work in building up the wax. The effect of this manipulation is to give the queen more room to lay which tends to reduce the chances of her thinking of swarming. The manipulation can be repeated once more if you wish to quickly increase the hive numbers. Generally in the city there is usually a food source from gardens to keep the hives busy between the flowering of any major trees. 3) My understanding is that if you wait to see the bees getting ready to swarm you are virtually to late. 4) If they do swarm and you find out where they went (ie usually in one of the neighbour's back yards) catch them and put them in a new super and start a second hive. You can re unite them with the original hive later,after killing the old queen, by placing newspaper under the super you are reuniting. I found that it helps if you also sprinkle all bees with flour (yes it is the correct spelling I did not mean flower). They are so busy cleaning themselves that they don't seem to fight the new bees on the other side of the paper. 5) I have also heard of placing a 'bait' hive in the vicinity of the hive that is about to swarm to catch your own bees. I have not tried this but it was suggested to me by another member of my beekeepers club. Hope this helps with your back yard beekeeping. ----------------------------- Michael Clark michaelc@accsoft.com.au ----------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 23:31:36 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Teresa Garcma Subject: molasses MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello everybody!! I am new to BEE-L and I love it. I am a beginner in beekeeping and would like to know if bees can be fed with molasses; Could apiculture be combined with "double purpose" cattle raising, giving the bees the same kind of molasses that we use here to add to silage? I would like to see each farmer here having a small apiary, but during the rainy season and with strong winds, bees cannot forage, and sugar is very expensive here. Another question, must the bees always be fed protein during dearth time, or how log can they be fed only with carbohydrates (sugar)? What do you think? Thank you!! Tere G. Mexico