========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 00:44:40 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Teresa Garcma Subject: question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello all! Does anybody know the name in spanish of Patchouli, Tea tree and Penny royal? Thanks a lot ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 22:40:41 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robert e butcher Subject: new comer!! Hi everybody! Iam a second year keeper of the bees. I've followed the list through a friend for about half a year, I have gotten alot of good info from it. I work with another fellow ,we have twelve colonies. In January '98 I hived my first swarm at 35 degrees outside. Just thought I'd say hello. Well GOD BLESS your BEES. BobBees _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 21:41:36 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: bee hives are clean? > propolis > FGMO and PGMO In-Reply-To: <34DCDC8D.66C@rls.roknet.ro> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:18 AM 2/8/98 +0200, Marian Pintilie wrote: >> How can you explain the healthy honeybees that are reared in areas of the >> world that have NO propolis at all >It seem to me that you too did not got my point of view. I repeat, >In average, the interior of a lived hive is cleaner than the usual >enviroment which touch our food . I mean regarding microorganisms and >toxic substances. Hi Marian & Bee Friends, This is just not true I understand what you are saying and I believe you are confusing the magic of our Honey with the physical environment it is produced in. We all can digest some wild claims made about honey itself but when it comes to making claims about the bee boxes or hives themselves as credible evidence for the hype of honey I get all plugged up. The inside of a bee hive and all its wooden parts are in fact because of the nature of wood and the bees themselves are not clean. I have no idea why you would want people to believe that they are clean but if you have access to a black light such as used to detect the urine trails of mice in a food storage warehouse you will never again want to eat your lunch off the inside of a bee hive. Add moisture to the inside of a old bee hive and at 80degrees B. you will be able to rear some very interesting things that can in time eat the wood bee hive itself up and if you were to eat them maybe they would not eat you but they could make you very thin. >I was not aware that are hives without propolis, (I saw that some hives >are well glued and near are other with almost nothing, but thin layer >is always there) . If those bees do not use propolis (Do not have >ingredients or do not know to produce it) are healthy because maybe >was not yet discocered by Columb to give them flu or use spells >to cure the evil :) To have propolis you must first have the trees and plants that produce them and believe it or not there are many places that are excellent for beekeeping that do not have them so the bees do not gather propolis, none of the hives because there is none to gather. I have personally kept bees in both types of areas and if I were asked I would say the bees are no healthier in the areas of over abundant propolis then they are in the areas that have little or none at all, but I would add that they are easier to work both in the field and in the honey extracting room when there is little or no propolis. We do no understand all that is to be known about how the bees use propolis but for sure how they use it and how man would use it in the trade are not necessarily the same. >>and the fact that bees will gather and >> use paint off any old Out House to use in the same way as they do propolis, >> and many other not so nice or clean things?? >If somewhere in this world are some bees located in a garbage field >who chosed to lick the Cola cans instead of starving doesn't mean that >the rest of the hives of the world are filthy. True it is not a perfect world and bees do these things and even in some wild pristine areas of the world honey bees can be found looking for salt in wild animal dung heaps if they lack it from other sources. In fact much of what attracts bees during periods of food shortage are of the highest order of rank things as far as what we would look for in our own foods, such as fermented grain dusts, dusting sulfur, and black tar off the road or roofs heated by the sun, a substitute for propels. Lucky for us most of these things are rare enough that they do not make their way into the trade, but at times some do and if not discovered because no one is looking it is luckier for us they do no harm when consumed in small amounts. The other side of this coin is honey made from non floral sources such as excreted from scale insects which believe it or not can return more to the beekeeper then the best floral honey and has a ready market in many areas and is called Forest Honey in some markets. Some is very tasty such as Fur Honey from the Ceder forests that has a pine nut flavor, others taste like used motor oil such as Oak honeydew which can be as red as blood, or Sugar Cane that can be black as the soot in it. None of these are even good bee food but the bees do collect and store them sometimes in large amounts. When the best honey in the US sold for 15 cents per pound I shipped a load of Oak Honey to Cuba for 7 3/4 cents per pound including the drums. It was used to flavor tobacco or that's what I had to say and stencil on each drum, but I suspect it was sold as sugar cane honey to those who could remember what it was like.. >The idea of unclean hives started, from the statement that >FGMO in contact with the filth will be the same as PGMO. >I this statement is true , I mean if the hive is unclean, than >bees walking in that unclean stuff and next in combs cells, will >make the honey unclean, so unfit for human consumption.!!! Man has bee eating honey, bees wax, and some of the filth of the hives for as long as this OLd Drone has been alive and except for a very few infants below the age of two years all seems to have worked out OK for us and the same was true for the vast majority of the infants who were fed small amounts of honey until a few years back when a over zealous public health bureaucrat did a snow job on the public and took the bee industry through the courts. We ended up paying for hand outs that pedo doctors give out with their bills warning new Mom's not to feed honey to their babies. Lucky for us babies never have been big consumers of honey or we all would be in a world of hurt.. Today in the USA those same unexplained crib deaths that make it hot for beekeepers is now said to be the action of murderous parents that don't want kids which also is a lot of horse poky... You are the first that I have read that would make this argument about the hive itself being clean or not as having anything at all to do with the honey produced from that hive. Some areas of the world still have beekeepers who keep bees in hives made of clay sealed up with mud and the dung of animals and they consume all the honey their bees produce with no reported problems. >Soooo, be careful with such statements, because if will get to the ears >of those who decide what is "eatable" and what not will let you to >sell the honey only if : Well so be it, take my word for it HONEY is a natural food and like most natural food it contains some things that are not normally considered in themselves as good. Most beekeepers take care in settling and straining their honey to remove some of the bigger things that naturally are found in honey. Some of these things are naturally found in honey because of the lack of care by the beekeepers and others are in the dust of our environment. No matter what I say others will make of it what they want, but I am not going to say something I know is not true just because of some danger someone may not understand. It is true I don't always express myself in a way that all can understand but as far as the good name of our Honey goes there have been evil forces at work for years and some can be found on the web, one you may want to read is: http://www.pitt.edu/~hslst7/honey/honey.html I won't post the others but will say they are just as bad in making false and out of context statements to advance a narrow point of view of why you should not eat your honey. >- the honey is sterilised >- the honey is washed with food grade soap, or >- your bees use boots outside of comb and antiseptic socks on combs. I can say without reservation that the honey producing industry, including myself, has a long way to go as far as what we could do to produce a better quality product. Lucky for us in most cases the no good bad rotten stealing Honey Packers removes much of what we miss, in the honey packing process, and in some cases adds a little something of his own, moisture to make up the loss. God has been good to us to have given us Honey Packers as bad as they are they do insulate us from the consumers, he gets the complaints while we take the praise. In this world the honey packer and the consumer are the one's who have the most to say what honey is all about as it must be marketed in competition with other products that are far less expensive and are really chemically pure if not natural. Please take note I know that few here have had the experience of selling bulk honey and all here may do an excellent job of selling all they produce to their friends and neighbors, and even their town or county. And all should be proud of what they do to produce the best most holism product in the world, honey, but out here in the real world there are many if not most honey producers who can not sell all their honey to their neighbors and must sell to others who gather large quantizes of honey, clean it up and blend it together, and market it to the bulk industrial users, or the wholesale trade that retails it to the average consumer and they produce the bulk of what honey is consumed in the USA a large market for domestic and world honey. >Jocking, or not , I can give more arguments that hive are cleaner than >us humans. I would think this is the right place to do that, but if you are just into PR or promotion of honey your time would be better spent on the public since few of us here do not believe that what we are doing is not right without telling the consumer another story on the advantages of honey produced in a wooden bee hive. It would be easier to say only real honey comes in a one pound bass wood comb honey section box and at one time most would go along with that but today it would be a hard sell. >Can anybody convice me the opossite? >A scientific approach will be much credible. Well if we have to be careful of what we say, scientific or not, then I give up and declare you the winner and wish you lots of luck convincing the public that honey is better then other food products because it comes from wooden bee hives, plastic bee hives, or even bee trees. I personally think of honey as a natural sweetener that differs in taste and composition according to the flowers in bloom when and the location and the environment it was produced in. ttul, the OLd Drone ... I said, but just to be a bee (c)Permission is given to copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 18:46:11 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Re: - Temperature to kill AFB spores MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tom Elliott asked what temperature is needed to kill AFB spores. I am currently part of a team looking to see if we can sterilise bee boxe= s in high temperature timber drying kilns. The lab work has shown that = it is far easier to kill the AFB spores in a wet solution than in a dry = condition. Hopefully, our work will be completed by the middle of this year and I = will be able to give you an answer. As for the scorching, I know a beekeeper who had AFB and destroyed al the= frames but kept the boxes, lids and bottom boards if they were in good = condition. He scorched inside and out with a blow torch and then re-pain= ted the boxes. He has not (scorching was done about 13 years ago) to dat= e had any re-infection. It was a lot of work but the beekeeper concerned was retired and had time= to spare. The cost, in material terms, was far less than replacing with= new equipment. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 11:37:16 +0100 Reply-To: drs@kulmbach.baynet.de Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dr. Reimund Schuberth" Subject: Re: Scorching AFB infected equipment Comments: To: beeman@Alaska.NET MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Rett, Tom and all others, because you don't get any answer about your question, I think I'll try to give you some advice from old Europe. The desciption of methods in the subsequent lines is given without any guarantee for its effectiveness against AFB or safety to the user. It is just an information n o t an instruction. In Germany we don't use any medicine as antibiotics for AFB. If AFB flares up at a beeyard we have to "fight" it - but without medicine. (If that is interesting to you I'll report about it at a later time.) To kill AFB on infected equipment there are two traditional ways high temperatures or caustic soda solution The first method is used for example to sterilize hives or wax. The wood of the hives is burned with a gas burner till it changes the colour and looks brown (not black) and the fibres of the wood beginn to burn. If you want to sterilize the wax you have to heat the pure wax up to 140-1600C (about 300 degrees in the Fahrenheit scale). The wax has to be heated w i t h o u t any water! (It will sprinkle out and may hurt someone!) One has to control the temperatur with a thermometer, take care of the temperature because of the inflaming point (burning) of the wax at about 295 0C (about 563 degrees in the Fahrenheit scale). The wax can also be sterilized under pressure with water vapore in a special autoclave boiler. If one uses equipment which cannot be heated to that temperature because of melting for example then one uses caustic soda. To sterilize hives of polystyrene foam we use caustic soda solution of 3-5 %. This solution is rather dangerous for skin and your eyes. So one has to use gloves, protective goggles and so on. After cleaning the equipment with the caustic soda solution you have to wash it with pure water and let it dry. Sincerely Reimund Beekeeper in Germany (Bavaria) Queen Rearing of Carniolan Bees Insemination Station > Rett Thorpe wrote: > > > > Could some sort of oven be made to bake AFB infected equipment? What > > temp is needed to kill AFB? > > A very specific question was asked. I have asked this before and gotten > the same lack of response. What temperature is required, and for how > long, to kill AFB spores? Does anyone have this information? > Apparently not, Rett. > Tom > -- > "Test everything. Hold on to the good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21) > > Tom Elliott > Chugiak, Alaska > U.S.A. > beeman@alaska.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 10:46:09 -0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Elias Gonzalez San juan Subject: Re: question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Teresa Garcma wrote: >Does anybody know the name in spanish of Patchouli, Tea tree and Penny royal? _________________________________ Patchouli --> PACHULI. Pogostemon cablin -- Lamiaceae. Tea tree --> CAYEPUT. Melaleuca alternifolia -- Mirtaceae. Penny royal --> MENTA. Mentha pulegium -- Lamiaceae. _________________________________ Elias Gonzalez La Palma Canary Islands beepress@iedatos.es ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 08:02:42 -0800 Reply-To: mister-t@clinic.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: bee hives are clean? > propolis > FGMO and PGMO MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Andy, Thanks for the response. I was a little concerned because the thread was moving away from FGMO vrs PGMO into how clean is a hive. The main point is - it is not as clean as you would need to use FGMO. I see no reason not to use USP grade MO. "We only use U.S. Pharmaceutical grade MO in our hives. Why, you trust it on your baby's skin, which is why we treat our bees the same way." The MO I bought for making bees wax hand cream is not even USP but says, "Laboratory tested, quality guaranteed". And on the back it gives directions for both internal and external use, so you can drink MO that is not indicated as USP! The key point is all this, which I am sure will be lost again, is that PGMO is as safe to use as FGMO because once applied, FGMO and PGMO lose the standard to which either is made. I am not advocating using the MO I bought for hand cream, but I'll bet it also is as safe as either FGMO or PGMO. We still need information concerning MO, no matter what kind, getting in honey. I doubt it does, but research is needed. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME Andy Nachbaur wrote: a response to Marian Pintilie ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 09:34:36 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Brenda Wishin Subject: Re: BestOfBee Digest for 7 Feb 1998 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank you! >8 Message:0008 8 >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >From: "Excerpts from BEE-L" >To: Bestofbee@systronix.net >Subject: Re: Wallpaper search > >From: Kathy Hough >To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > >To everyone looking for bee wallpaper,There are a number of patterns >available right now... My current favorite (and the one that i bought for >the office area of our honey house) is by Osborne and Little and is part of >the Nina Campbell collection--it's ~3/4" bumble type bees "flying" every >which way over a very subtly (dotted) "honeycombed" background of an >otherwise solid background. There were 6 or 7 different background colors >available, some with more obvious honeycomb "dots" than others. > >Another bee paper is a border from Brunschwig (sp?) & Fils that has a 2-3 >foot repeating pattern of skep and flowers with bees flying overhead. It was >available in 4 or 5 different colors in 1992 when we bought it. > >Two other sources (with several papers & borders to choose from) are both >distributed by Imperial and are in the "Be Home" book and one (or two) of the >Gear company books. These papers and borders have a more rustic and country >feel than the other two. > >I've found out about these wallpapers from my local paint and wallpaper store >who (like everyone else in our small town) is aware that we are beekeepers >and collectors of bee stuff and brought them to our attention. Even if your >local wallpaper store hasn't ever thought to look for bees in wallpaper, >there is a reference book for many wallpaper companies that lists papers by >category (like shells, or ducks, or bees) that you might ask your local store >to look up for you. > >Don't know if any of the companies that I mentioned has a web page, but they >might... they're certainly large enough companies to merit the investment. > >Good luck to you all, >Kathy > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >9 Message:0009 9 >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >From: "Excerpts from BEE-L" >To: Bestofbee@systronix.net >Subject: Re: FGMO > >Reply-to: Discussion of Bee Biology >From: Beemaid > >I am assuming that when you say pharmaceutical grade mineral oil you are >referring to USP or British Pharmacopoeia Standards. If this is the case, >then the item about the only difference with FGMO is being fabricated in >"clean" rooms is false, because in order to meet Pharmaceutical standards it >has to be manufactured or fabricated in "CLEAN" room conditions. > >As for why to use Food Grade vs Pharmaceutical Grade, if in the off chance >that some of the mineral oil gets into the honey or wax and has a chance of >being ingested by some one, that is the justification for using Food Grade. > >Just like in food processing plants where they have to use FOOD GRADE grease >where there is the possibility of contact with the food product. > >I hope this helps clarify some discussions about Food Grade vs >Pharmaceutical grade. > >Sincerely, > >Quentin Bochar BSc. >Laboratory Technician > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >10 Message:0010 10 >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >From: "Excerpts from BEE-L" >To: Bestofbee@systronix.net >Subject: Web Page Mini-Group > >Reply-to: Discussion of Bee Biology >From: Jerry J Bromenshenk > >A few of you are building or have pages. This topic does not seem to appeal >to most of the list, but some have expressed an interest. If you'd like to >form a discussion group about web pages, interactive databases, how to make >them, how to make them work, tricks, etc. please contact me directly. DO NOT >SEND YOUR RESPONSE TO BEE-L... > >If you have not done so, you may wish to check out our JAVA graphing honey >bee foraging and weather data sets. We have posted 2 weeks of bee activity >for Montana and the appropriate weather data as well as internal hive >temperature data. You can learn a lot about what influences flight activity, >time lags, etc. by checking these out and/or downloading the actual datafiles >into spreadsheets. > >This is real data from 7 very real and fully functional hives. > >http://grizzly.umt.edu/biology/bees > >Thanks > >Jerry J. Bromenshenk, Ph.D. >Director, DOE/EPSCoR & Montana Organization for Research in Energy >The University of Montana-Missoula >Missoula, MT 59812-1002 >E-Mail: jjbmail@selway.umt.edu >Tel: 406-243-5648 >Fax: 406-243-4184 > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >11 Message:0011 11 >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >From: "Excerpts from BEE-L" >To: Bestofbee@systronix.net >Subject: Re: Bee Decline ? > >Reply-to: Discussion of Bee Biology >From: David Green > > >I have read in a book on the decline of amphibians, that there has also > >been a decline in natural bee populations. It is attributed to the > >widespread use of pesticides in agriculture, and the decline in habitat for > >bees. I think the loss of natural bee populations is due mainely to the bee >mites. >> > >That's not entirely true, though mites have been a serious factor with >honeybees. But honeybee populations were declining before mites arrived, due >to pesticide misuse, poor honey markets, and other factors. > > Bumblebee populations, especially in the south are badly depleted, >primarily due to cotton spraying in violation of label directions. Many >solitary bees are also affected. Pesticide misuse is a factor in many other >areas as well. > > Some other factors are loss of forage (changing crops patterns, loss of >hedgerows, increased herbicide use, and monoculture pine forests rather than >mixed forest), clearcut logging, development, bee paranoia (more homeowner >spraying, more vandalism to beekeepers), and fire ants (ground nesting >solitary bees are especially vulnerable to these preditors). > > To Mr. Seyfried: > > You are absolutely right: the decline of pollinator populations is one of >the most significant environmental problems, one that will greatly impact our >children and grandchildren, if not ourselves. It is little recognized and I >commend you for being alert to this situation. > > You can help. > >1. Get well educated yourself. You can look at produce at the market and see >effects of poor pollination (lowered quality), if you know what to look for. >Check out the web pages below for more info. > >2. Work for better enforcement of pesticide laws. Right now this is a low >priority, and in fact our South Carolina pesticide enforcement head has been >lobbying EPA to gut the protection offered in pesticide label directions. > >3. Work for more research on honeybee mite control (only one material today >is registered for varroa mites, and resistance to that material is looming), >resistant strains of honeybees, alternative pollinators. Your congressman may >think pollination is unimportant. He may see the bee labs as so much pork >barrel, so he keeps trying to cut the already limited budget for bee research. > >4. Work for better beekeeper education. Call your local extension office and >ask them when they are offering a beginner beekeeping course. If they don't >have one scheduled, point out the pollination problem and ask they why they >aren't working on it. > > Why do many of the land grant universities have little or no beekeeper >courses? I don't think any university in the US has a course in pollination >management, which is pretty basic horticulture, really. There are only a half >dozen schools that have any significant training. I once had a university- >trained head of an extension fruit team look totally blank at me, when I >showed him you could count the seeds in an apple to evaluate pollination. It >was a brand new idea to him. > >5. Encourage young people, in every opportunity you have, to consider >beekeeping (especially for contract pollination) as a career choice. It's a >seller's market..... > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >12 Message:0012 12 >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >From: "Excerpts from BEE-L" >To: Bestofbee@systronix.net >Subject: Re: old eguipment--torching? > >Reply-to: Discussion of Bee Biology >From: Nick Wallingford > >> I normally agree with prolific Allen Dick but if he says that scorching >> with a propane torch to clean up old frames/boxes, etc. for any reason is >> futile, I DON'T agree, based upon my own many years of experience in >> apiology and discussions with other pertinent individals. > >I've recently been reading historical material back into the first >part of the century related to AFB control - all the popular methods >of McEvoy, etc, as well as a lot of 'home grown' NZ methods of the >day. > >Scorching of boxes was an accepted practice at one time in NZ but is >no longer allowed or considered effective. As we do not feed >antibiotics to control/suppress/cure AFB, my reading of the history >is that it became abundantly apparent that scorching did not render >boxes safe to put on 'clean' hives. > >I will qualify that with one comment from an old beekeeper that >scorching can be *very* effective, but only if you scorch both inside >and outside of the box, and make sure the scorching meets in the >middle... > >Perhaps Dr Mark Goodwin, who has done extensive research related to >AFB infection and detection, would make some comments to the list? > > (\ Nick Wallingford > {|||8- home nickw@beekeeping.co.nz > (/ work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz >NZ Beekeeping http://www.beekeeping.co.nz > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >13 Message:0013 13 >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >From: "Excerpts from BEE-L" >To: Bestofbee@systronix.net >Subject: Re: FGMO and PGMO > >From: Bill Truesdell >To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > >The problem I have with the use of FGMO vrs PGMO (in addition to cost) is >that it is probably inappropriate for use in the hive unless you maintain >the same "clean" conditions required to maintain FGMO's classification as >food grade. Just as soon as you put it on a frame, it is no longer "food >grade" and becomes less pure than unapplied PGMO. > >I understand that we want to have a pure substance in the hive, but >beekeepers put crisco, terra, formic acid, menthol, apistan, and a host of >other things into their hives, follow directions and the honey is considered >pure and safe. Most of those things you would not want to eat. Bees track in >every kind of substance, including dirt, pesticides, and pollen. Bits and >pieces of bees end up in cells along with dead mites and honey. With all >this hive contamination, we are saying that we have to use FGMO because it >is food grade. Yet all this trash comes in contact with honey and always >has. > >I understand FGMO is used in machinery which will contact foods. Every >effort is made, under those conditions, to maintain a clean environment. >The hive does not meet those conditions, so I agree with the oil sales rep >that we are in overkill if we use FGMO. PGMO is a very pure oil - you can >drink it, though not recommended (along with FGMO) because of the end result >(there is a pun in there somewhere). > >I guess the best analogy is washing your hands with a strong antiseptic soap >or plain soap before you go out and dig up carrots in the garden. Your hands >are clean enough for the job with plain soap because the environment (dirt >in garden) brings either treatment to the same level of contamination. >I would like to know how anyone can tell the difference between FGMO and >PGMO after it is applied. Both are exactly the same chemically. Both then >have the same level of contamination. The hive is an unclean environment. >I would hate to see the community find that MO does work but be locked into >FGMO because of what I consider to be over caution (it is food grade so it >must be the only thing we can use). I know that I am on the hard side of >this discussion because I am arguing a lesser standard, but I think more >practical. > >Bill Truesdell >Bath, ME > >As an aside, two of us will be trying MO this summer, so I am not against MO >and I appreciate your work. > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >14 Message:0014 14 >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >From: "Excerpts from BEE-L" >To: Bestofbee@systronix.net >Subject: Re: swarm traps > >Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology >From: Adrian Wenner > >> Dr Justin Schmidt, of the USDA-ARS LAB in Tucson, Arizona both knows and >> has made several designs of swarm traps. They are made in Oregon, of wood >> pulp, over a form in the size of an office waste paper basket, and will >> last 2-5 years outside. He also developed the pheromone lure. > > Justin Schmidt is VERY busy and may not be able to reply to mail >inquiries. Those who want a summary of swarm traps can refer to an >AMERICAN BEE JOURNAL article: Schmidt, J.O. 1985. Swarm traps: An >example of research and technology transfer. (130:811-812). > > Another article may prove useful: Schmidt, J.O. and S.C. Thoenes. The >efficiency of swarm traps: What percent of swarms are captured and at what >distance from the hive? AMERICAN BEE JOURNAL. 130: 811-812. > > I have used these swarm hives for several years. They are quite >effective, but cavities in which colonies have existed earlier prove >somewhat more attractive to swarms, as reported earlier at an AMERICAN BEE >RESEARCH CONFERENCE. > >Adrian M. Wenner (805) 893-2838 (UCSB office) >Ecol., Evol., & Marine Biology (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) >Univ. of Calif., Santa Barbara (805) 963-8508 (home office & FAX) >Santa Barbara, CA 93106 > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >15 Message:0015 15 >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >From: "Excerpts from BEE-L" >To: Bestofbee@systronix.net >Subject: fgmo & pgmo > >From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" >To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > >Although the question has not been addressed to me, I thought that perhaps I >should answer being that I am the "father of the creature." > >Yes, I am very much aware of the existence of PGMO. Those who read my files >will notice tht I describe the reason for selecting FGMO with abundace of >detail. For those of you who may have missed it, please let me state it >again. FGMO is approved by the federal government (hence also state >governments) in the USA for use in food handling operations. > >While PGMO might be slightly priced below the cost of FGMO, PGMO does not >have approval from the government as a substance that can be applied to the >"tools" for food handling. Since honey is food, I think that the reason >should be clear to everyone especially with the possibility of honey being >subject to regulatory procedures in the near future. With a lifetime >experience in food hygiene, I would never advocate the use of a substance >that does not meet hygienic standards. Perhaps when the use of mineral oil >as a bee miticide (as I have not doubt that it will become!), beekeepers and >honey packers will lobby the government for approval of PGMO as an accepted >substance that can be utilized in honey handling operations. > >I would also like to emphasize for those of you who may have missed my post. >A few days back I posted to Bee-L the names of two major distributors of >mineral oil in the United States including their telephone numbers; (one of >them is a free call: 1-800-245-3952). > >Good luck to all of you in the coming beekeeping season. > >Best regards. >Dr. Rodriguez >Virginia Beach, VA > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >16 Message:0016 16 >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >From: "Excerpts from BEE-L" >To: Bestofbee@systronix.net >Subject: Propolis > >Reply-to: Discussion of Bee Biology >From: Andy Nachbaur > >...I am not sure about anything but do know that propolis is a substance that >is consumed in the beehive as hives moved out of areas with heavy propolis >to the point the frames can not be moved without damage in one season will >have none when moved to areas that have no trees or plants that produce the >stickey stuff. Here they will substitute wax for propiolis and will rob it >off foundation or just about anything else in the summer. > >ttul, the OLd Drone > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >17 Message:0017 17 >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >From: "Excerpts from BEE-L" >To: Bestofbee@systronix.net >Subject: RE: irradiation of hives > >Reply-to: rrudd@tinet.ie >From: rrudd > >The problem with gamma ray irradiation of hives to sterilize them from AFB is >that although the process kills off the disease, the dried scales are left in >the cells, with the result that the queen will not lay in them and thus the >frame will still have the *pepper pot* appearance characteristic of AFB. > >The problem arises when you next inspect for AFB, and you cannot determine >whether the colony is re- infected or not. Also there aren't too many >stations irradiating for the general public, and you need a large number of >hives to be treated at the one time, as, I understand, there is a minimum >size of container which the processors will accept. >--- >FAQ? There is no BEE-L FAQ - as such - but you can >search for answers to most common questions by visiting >http://www.beekeeping.co.nz/beel.htm >or send email to LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU and say >Search BEE-L KEYWORD(S) >('KEYWORD(S)' means a word or words unique to your question) > > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >18 Message:0018 18 >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >From: "Excerpts from BEE-L" >To: Bestofbee@systronix.net >Subject: Re: Pollen traps and supersedure > >Reply-to: Discussion of Bee Biology >From: Stan Sandler > >>You say "have been using pollen traps for 10 years...". Interesting, as I >>see you are in the Northeast. With our relatively high humidity, do you dry >>the pollen? If you do, how do you do it? If you don't, do you have trouble >>with mold? Do you sell the pollen, or just use it as feed? > >I put out 10 traps this past season. It was the first time I had tried any >amount. Most of the pollen I preserved in sugar for feeding, but some I >froze to investigate marketing it here (PEI Canada, similar climate to >Northeast USA). Since I couldn't put it in the stores frozen I have been >packing some in honey. I notice from visiting the COMVITA web site in New >Zealand that they market some of their pollen in that fashion. > >One advantage, to my way of thinking is, is that this is sort of how the >bees preserve the pollen when they make beebread, without whatever enzymes >they add albeit. The disadvantage is that the pollen pellets lose their >nice shape and colour and the jars look like they contain a rather >homogenous and not very attractive paste. > >Regards Stan >--- >Want more detail? Wondering exactly what was happening on BEE-L? >Simply send email to LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU saying >SEND BEE-L LOG9712A You'll get the full proceedings of the week. >In this example A = first week, 12 = Dec, 97 = 1997 > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >19 Message:0019 19 >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >From: "Excerpts from BEE-L" >To: Bestofbee@systronix.net >Subject: Alternate Web Site Address > >Reply-to: Discussion of Bee Biology >From: Jerry J Bromenshenk > >For some reason, our University's Main Server is not reliably responding to >its name. (grizzly.umt.edu) Therefore, to reach our bee site with the >real-time data sets, weather station, and JAVA graphing, use the alias >address: > >http://www.umt.edu/biology/bees >or >http://www.umt.edu >Then go to the A-Z Index, click on Bee Alert. > >I apologize for the inconvenience. We have asked the University Sys Ops to >look into the "bug". Thanks to those who alerted us to the glitch. > >Jerry >Jerry J. Bromenshenk, Ph.D. >Director, DOE/EPSCoR & Montana Organization for Research in Energy >The University of Montana-Missoula >Missoula, MT 59812-1002 >E-Mail: jjbmail@selway.umt.edu >Tel: 406-243-5648 >Fax: 406-243-4184 > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >20 Message:0020 20 >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >From: "Excerpts from BEE-L" >To: Bestofbee@systronix.net >Subject: Re: swarm traps > >Reply-to: Discussion of Bee Biology >From: Adrian Wenner > >With regard to the description and use of swarm traps, Justin Schmidt just >sent me a message: "Actually the best paper for beekeepers on swarm traps >is the ABJ paper "Swarm traps" 129:468-71 (1989)." And, yes, they do >work! > >Adrian M. Wenner (805) 893-2838 (UCSB office) >Ecol., Evol., & Marine Biology (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) >Univ. of Calif., Santa Barbara (805) 963-8508 (home office & FAX) >Santa Barbara, CA 93106 > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >21 Message:0021 21 >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >From: "Excerpts from BEE-L" >To: Bestofbee@systronix.net >Subject: Re: re irradiation of hives > >Reply-to: Discussion of Bee Biology >From: Robert Bowman > >The irradiation of bee equipment under the direction of NSW Dept of >Agriculture requires the infected colony be destroyed and the brood combs >burnt. This eliminates the problem of residual scales. The honey from supers >must be extracted.The heat during the irradiation process will otherwise >cause honey to run out of the supers especially if not yet capped over. > >Honey sourced from AFB infected hives is kept separate and containers marked >as carrying AFB spores. This honey is directed toward manufacturing trade by >packers. > >Once irradiated the equipment is immediately available for use. The >beekeeper only required to replace brood combs and bees. > >We have only one facility available in Sydney NSW and is quite happy to >provide this type of service. The minimum unit is three decks with an >irradiation cost around $20 Aust. > >Regards >Rob Bowman > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >22 Message:0022 22 >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >From: "Excerpts from BEE-L" >To: Bestofbee@systronix.net >Subject: Re: irradiation of hives > >Reply-to: Discussion of Bee Biology >From: Robert Bowman > >The irradiation method used is the same as that used to sterilise items >such as disposable surgical gloves, saline solutions for drips, condoms >etc. The type of irradiation is the use of gamma rays emitted from >radioactive cobalt I think. The dose rate (level of radiation) is measured >and accurate. > >The irradiation is carried out by fully qualified persons in registered >facilities. Their is no danger to the beekeeper or consumer of product from >irradiated eqipment. The only honey permitted for irradiation is that which >is to be used in the making of queen candy and only fed to bees. No food of >any type for human consumption is permitted to be irradiated under >Australian food regulations. > >The only facility for irradiation in NSW is located in Sydney. > >I live in Bathurst NSW. It is a city of around 30000 people situated in the >Central Tablelands district of New South Wales. We have a cool to temperate >climate. It is the oldest inland settlement of NSW and has a history of >goldmining and agriculture. Touring car racing enthusiasts will be familiar >with our world famous race track on Mt. Panorama which overlooks the city. > >The area is excellent for beekeeping (although not this year due to >drought). We produce some high quality honeys from ground flora, canola and >eucalypts. > >Good breeding conditions also make the district a favoured location for >package and queen producers exporting to Asia, Canada, Europe and the >Middle East. > >Regards > >Rob Bowman. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 08:13:07 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: FGMO and PGMO In-Reply-To: <34DDD721.D383D7F9@clinic.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > I see no reason > not to use USP grade MO. "We only use U.S. > Pharmaceutical grade MO in our hives. Personally, I wonder if veterinary grade MO, which is cheap in gallon jugs wouldn't be just fine. I suppose that will have to be decided if the MO method becomes an accepted treatment someday. In the meantime, I think Dr. Pedro has made it clear that he is using the oil which in his opinion is least likely to offend the consumer -- or the watchdawgs. Allen ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 15:14:28 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Re: Resistant Varroa Mites Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi All Jack the Bman from Ellicott City Maryland USA quoted me as follows: What I wrote was It also seems to me, that there are two kinds of > beekeepers. One is the older variety in terms of years spent with bees. I am > of the opinion that these beekeepers are not too open to new ideas. The > other variety, like myself, is the newer beekeeper, who is more open to new > ideas, since every idea to us is a new idea. Toujours, je tiens la foi! A bientot! Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland e mail cssl@iol.ie Tel + 353 1 289 5269 Fax + 353 1 289 9940 Latitude 53 Deg 16' 12.8" North Longitude 06 Deg 9' 44.9" West ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 09:22:31 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Subject: Fresh Air In-Reply-To: <199802080541.VAA22263@mail.thegrid.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > ... this argument about the hive itself being clean or not as having > anything at all to do with the honey produced from that hive. Some areas > of the world still have beekeepers who keep bees in hives made of clay > sealed up with mud and the dung of animals and they consume all the > honey their bees produce with no reported problems. Thanks for the fresh air, Andy. I still recall your talking about the purity (NOT) of beekeeper collected bee pollen for human consumption and your reasons for no longer participating in the promotion thereof. --- Since the discovery of microbes some few short centuries ago, the thinking of western man has shifted a little. What was formerly ascribed to sin, invisible spirits and vapours very quickly became understood in terms of tiny -- invisible to the naked eye -- organisms. Naturally many of the fear and superstitions attached to the former came through and became attached to the latter in the public mind. Sterility is equated with virtue. Cleanliness is next to godliness. Nonetheless, even the most coddled infant usually manages to eat at least a few handsful of dirt before being snatched from the ground and I am sure that the little pebbles left by sheep and goats and rabbits -- and similar items found in the backyards of urban children visited by cats and dogs -- have found their way into the mouths of many, if not most, healthy toddlers -- along with virtually any other suitably sized item within grasp. Yet we usually survive and prosper. Mouthing and even ingesting foul findings is usually not eventful. And as an interesting example of how our prejudices in favour of 'cleanliness' can be suspect , MS is (counter-intuitively) associated with countries where hygiene is the 'best', not localities where people live in squalor. As it happens, the vast majority of microbes are either benign or offer no threat to us. The list of dangerous bacteria and moulds is a tiny tiny subset of the total microbial population. Most often those that are most dangerous have to have recently come from a host that shares our shape and form. It is the presence of our own kind that is most dangerous to our health. Even our pets share very few microbial diseases with us. The idea of eating insects and their products is unattractive to the westen mind, with almost the sole exception of honey. The idea of eating microorganisms and their products is usually restricted to wines and beers and cheese related items. Bees and humans share no known diseases. We are very different. Mice and other rodents and environmental vectors may introduce contaminants that could be dangerous, but the likelihood is low. The major threat to health is the beekeeper. I suppose we could wonder about mouse urine and feces -- the most common mamalian contaminants associated with honey, however, I believe that I have heard that urine is normally sterile. The feces is not, however. Is it a threat? I don't know. What I do know is that I have seen it in bee pollen that has bee cleaned and prepared for market and yet no one died --or even complained. I also know that my neighbours here go through the fields harvesting wheat each fall, and in the process mice, skunks and other animals occasionally go through the machine and some trace of them must be dumped in the bin with the grain. Once the grain is in the bin or on the ground, the mice run though and leave their evidence, the birds fly over and or nest above the grain, and then the grain goes to be made into bread or granola or whatever. FWIW, I am not sure that enough heat is used in the many products that contain grains and flour to sterilise. Yet the population of humans in our cities and countryside thrives. What am I saying? I guess I am saying that sterility -- the goal of modern food and environmental management -- is a simplistic way of dealing with a problem. And moreover I am suggesting it is not the best approach. There are many beneficial organisms that are damaged and lost when a wholesale disinfecting and eradicating approach is used, rather than a management approach. I guess I have this belief in common with the Rodale 'organic' crowd. To me it seems to be a weak strategy to kill all your friends -- and strangers too -- because there may be an enemy among them. Such solutions are based on fear and ignorance rather than strength and wisdom. Although they have obvious beneficial immediate effects in many cases and offer a way to deal ad hoc, I suspect that in the long run they are suboptimal and firther I believe that far wiser and more subtle management can be used to advantage. At any rate, the whole question of the 'cleanliness' and sterility of the hive interior seems irrelevant to me. Every day I breathe in air that includes samples of everything that is volatile or can produce dust (or ride on dust) in my environment. It is far from sterile. I trust that the same air passes through the beehives. I bite my fingernails. They are clean, but not not sterile. What concerns me is this: Are there any things naturally present in the hive that I may not reasonably be expected to be able to handle and remain healthy if they get into the honey? I think not. In regard chemical threats, we have Jerry B and his helpers to thank for researching this, and sharing the results. It seems that honey is remarkably free of environmental chemicals. In regard bacterial contamination, it seems that there are few bacteria that can survive immersion in honey and none that I know of that cause human disease. There are some spore forming bacteria that can be a cause of concern such as the spores that result in botulism. I wonder about anthrax and typhoid. People can carry typhoid and spread it without getting it themselves. Can mice? I don't know if mice get anthrax, but humans do. And I believe I've heard that anthrax occasionally breaks out in South America. In honey producing regions? I wonder if there are any on the list that have knowledge of the very small list of human diseases that *might* be able to be spread through honey? It seems to me that the chances of dangerous bacterial contamination occuring in a hive is negligible to zero. I'm not so sure about the possibility of something like that happening in the extraction and bottling. Allen ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 09:19:30 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Fernihough Subject: Early Pollen - Vancouver Canada Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Just to report pollen arriving at a very early date, January 30, 1998. First time I have seen it that early, Feb. 7 was next earliest. Of course, I also cut my grass and did some gardening that day. Wife went for walk and found many flowers in bloom covered with my bees, in the neighborhood. And our first robin of the year was spotted too! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 13:41:06 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jon C Peacock Subject: Edu. Site - Flower Show? Greeting to List Members. I have a request. Please send to address below, your ideas for an "Education Site" at furture South Eastern Flower Shows. In mid February of 1998, there will be the Annual 'Southeastern Flower Show', in midtown Atlanta, Georgia. The flower show typically draws 56,000 people in five days at 9 hours per day. Our local Bee keepers association is allowed a 10 foot square area in which to set up an educational site where 1,200 plus people will walk past in a 9 hour period. The site is inside an OLD 'Sear & Roebuck' building in downtown Atlanta, Georgia. The floor is concrete, the walls are OLD cinder blocks and the area is actually very cool for early February. We typically show a single frame of a deep super, Observation hive. Both long sides are open for public inspection thru plexi glass, with Bee keepers on duty for information and safety. The Observation hive is a real drawing card. We, the local association, do not have money to donate to this site and we are not allowed to sell anything to fund the endevor. The positive side, we find new members, we make contacts for honey or hive products or bee talks that almost make it profitable. We need ideas for the smallish area. We have had themes, Bees are Angles of Argiculure, Evolution of the Bee Hive, Extinct - Wild Bees We have Known, and others. The folks that set up and run the Flower Show will donate all the flowers the area will hold. It is awkward to explain to a attentive group, that bees do not work the White and Purple Hyacinth or the Daffodils that blanket the area. Honey displays, 10 jars or hundreds are a complete flop. The folks want to buy. "Why can't I buy a jar, there are dozens of bottles just sitting there. Or "Un hu, lotsa pretty colors, can I taste one of the pretty yellow jars up near the top?" No, we don't do that sort of thing to the general public. The Atlanta Flower Show --folks want an 'Educational Bee Keepers site' set up. I have some 'little theatre' experience, but the local club thinks I'm daff to suggest making a 'set' liken a Bee Yard. And you cannot get technical with the general public. They are real quick with, "Oh mumm", and wander away. Any suggestion gladly accepted. Thanks. E-mail: jayseapcok@Juno.com J.C.Peacock, :-}, US Postal Address; 6660 Imperial Dr., Morrow, GA 30260-2208 Retired Staff Sargent. Granddad to 6. 3 of each. 14 years B keepr. 8 Italian hives. Small Craft sailor. One eyed cabinet maker. *-) , "Every day discover something new in the every day things around you, look at things differently." _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 14:37:25 -0500 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" Organization: Independent non-profit research Subject: Re: "Fresh Air" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------76F091A5C5D75E2E8C8471B3" --------------76F091A5C5D75E2E8C8471B3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Oooooops. I just realized that I made an error in my previous post on this thread. Instead of tetanus, I should have said, botulism. My apologies to the list. Regards. Dr. R. --------------76F091A5C5D75E2E8C8471B3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Oooooops.  I just realized that I made an error in my previous post on this thread.
Instead of tetanus, I should have said, botulism.  My apologies to the list.
Regards.
Dr. R. --------------76F091A5C5D75E2E8C8471B3-- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 22:34:50 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Gerhard Pape Subject: Effects of oil on brood development. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit About FGMO. Why are we so concerned about ourselfs? The discussion is going on and on about the honey and the wax we want to sell. Okay, but. . . Does nobody feel any concern with the bees flying out for pollen while there body is covered with a thin layer of oil? This oil must come into the food for the home bees and the larvae! Can larvae and bees digest this oil? Can they digest vegetable oil as well or better? Question before I start using the Rodrigez-method of fighting varroa; has there been noticed any influence on the brood developement during the application of oil? Gerhard Pape Ermelo Netherlands ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 14:08:04 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: pOllen > Re: Fresh Air In-Reply-To: <16234549949649@internode.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:22 AM 2/8/98 -0600, you wrote: >Thanks for the fresh air, Andy. I still recall your talking about the >purity (NOT) of beekeeper collected bee pollen for human consumption and >your reasons for no longer participating in the promotion thereof. Hi Allen, & Bee Friend, I know you did not ask but this comes to mind and I must again say it, if again: Yes for many years I trapped pollen from my bee hives, I was one of the early leaders in this field, I even have an unpublished book on the subject that I may put on the Internet some day. I trapped pollen first for the information on what my bees were working and my own use to feed my own bees and later on to supply other beekeepers with pollen to feed their bees. It is one of the most enjoyable experiences I had in keeping bees. Early on I filled requests for bee collected pollen from research institutes such as were doing bee research and human research, at no cost to them and I even paid the shipping of the 30#, five gallon cans and latter on plastic buckets. I harvested, cleaned, and froze all the pollen I collected and only by accident when I misplaced a can did I find out how real super bee feed could be produced by naturally fermenting the pollen before using it, which never has been much reported by me or anyone else. (you saw it here first on the Internet) I also learned how to produce wax worm silk, and wax worm parasites but that's another story. Why did I stop when I saw the price increase from $1.00 per pound I was charging to $5.00 per pound. Two things really bothered me, one was people were using pollen as a food and I knew that unlike honey that in its Natural, Organic or Pure condition is relatively safe for most people to eat with about the same numbers of people having problems as those who have problems from bee stings, but with pollen which is not and has never been a clean food and contains every bad thing that can be found in our environment the number of people who have problems when consuming it rises to levels maybe 100,000 times that of honey, mostly from allergies, and I did not want to become involved in that kind of business. This was my own choice and today pollen as a human food or food supplement is greater then it ever was and can be found in many forms in most any national retail drug store besides that which is hawked by the normal outlets for so called health foods and as far as I know NO one is being made ill or dying from eating it, but there is some Luck in everything we do today, just ask our President... People who sell pollen for human consumption and those who buy it to eat always remind me that at one time I raised big fat red worms commercially and all they ever got to eat was smart pills from my 200 doe rabbitry. These worms grew to sizes never seen in the wild, they were so sexy that I could not only sell the whole worms but I could sell their eggs by the gallon to others who wanted to start their own worm farm. I never did try to sell anybody on the idea that smart pills from rabbits would be good human food but it sure was good food for the worms. Not once did I ever have anyone buy any smart pills from me to eat so they would get the same benefits as my worms got from consuming them. Pollen is the best natural bee food I have ever found and yet I am not convinced it is even safe for human consumption. I can say for a fact research was done to grow hair on over sexed bald men and it did not change their sex drive or grow any hair. RR fed it to his horses, if he ate it himself it sure did not keep him from getting old or old timers disease, he always has been older then me and to be alive and much loved at 87 is great. I tasted my pollen often myself, and even breathed it for years and I still got cancer on the end of my noise. I once gave a 5 gallon can to a guy who begged me for it as his wife was terminal with brain cancer and she died. That ended it for me, I put my traps in the barn and they are still there. The 2nd reason I stopped also has to do with bee research (BS) and is closer to what most of us do everyday and that is the attempt to keep healthy bees by adding to their diets sugar and proteins including some pollen. When I started trapping pollen chalk brood was unknown or rare in the bees hives in the USA. Some old timers could remember seeing it back in the early 40's, but few had ever seen it, including myself and none had a problem with it. Later on at the time it was being found and becoming a problem here in the US and other places I started trapping pollen, I had NO chalk brood at the time or none I could see. I was selling pollen to the USDA for them to feed their research bees at $1.00 per pound, each year they took a few more cans and each year it took more red tape and longer to receive payment for it. It got so bad I had to sign legal forms that I was not a Red mad dog commie, that I hired all who asked for work including the mentally ill and blind, and much more. Hard to believe I had to sign a Loyalty Oath just to sell the USDA bee pollen they wanted to feed their bees and then wait six months to receive payment. Even I have limits to what I will do for my country and one year when I to this day do not know if I was ever paid for the year before's shipment of pollen I raised my price to $3.00 per pound to cover the added costs of doing business with the government.. I never sold another pound of pollen to the USDA, but even though the same laws that I must obey specifically state that the USDA will buy all farm product and more from a US source first before going off shore for their needs they chose to buy their pollen from a northern producer using an importer to cover their tails. This northern producer had a bad chalk brood problem and would grind up the mummies with the pollen and sell the resulting product that contained a very high percentage of chalk brood spores, I am talking 5-10% by weight. I did not know at the time but the pollen that I was selling the USDA and what they purchased from the north was used by more then one bee lab and of course they all broke down with chalk brood almost at once. We got a lot of chalk brood research after that as you could well understand and no information a beekeeper could use to cure it other then not feed pollen with chalk brood mummies or trapped from hives that have chalk brood. Yes we pay for that kind of common sense information everyday when we look to our regulatory scientists to do bee research and in enlightened places like the Left Coast of America we pay twice because if the University of California does not do the research work it won't work here or be permitted here until they do it. I never knowingly trapped pollen from a hive with chalk brood, and if I found a hive with it I would stop trapping it. I have seen others who were trapping pollen for human consumption that were able to clean out five gallon or more buckets of chalk brood mummies every day which does make good chicken feed or at least they will eat it. That bee outfit does not sell pollen for bee feed or even feed their own pollen, no wonder. Anyway I think those who feed pollen other then that which they know was produced from hives that did not have chalk brood are flirting with disaster of a scale that could conceivably put them out of the bee business as to this date there is no cure for chalk brood. The best pollen for feeding bees is like the best queens for re-queening them and that is what the beekeeper produced with his own hands. Some bee breeders would never trust even their own kids with picking breeder queens, most will let their wife's do the grafting if they are that lucky to have one who will do it, and I would think the same care should be done when picking the yards to trap pollen, any chalk brood in any yard should be enough to stop trapping in that yard if possible, unless you are going to sell it to the USDA Bee Labs. It is not even clear if the pollen from a hive with chalk brood needs to have the mummies to pass on the chalk brood to another hive, I suspect not but don't know the answer. Chalk brood could be like AFB spores and the numbers required to cause an infection is very high so that an occasional few thousand or million spores may not cause any symptoms. There is so much that we beekeeper know not of what we speak when it comes to the environment and bees that is basic it boggles my mind. I too look to Jerry B. to blaze some new trails into a better understanding of what we all assume is natural and may not be all so pristine. I do know that the honey from the most secluded mountain tops far removed from man, machines, and their dirt does contain detectable levels of hydro carbons and other things that we would/should not expect to be there. But then we can now find a speck of dust on a beach and no one would expect that speck to be a problem unless it is the one that triggered that cancer on the end of my noise and then I say clean up the beach. Well I am going out to pick up 10-39 cent hamburger a MacDonalds, just look what they did for our President and he only eats them one at a time. I will report back if the young girls are successfully in molesting me. ttul, the OLd Drone "Where there are fruits & nuts, there are beekeepers" (c)Permission is given to copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 17:39:29 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Teresa Garcma Subject: About AFB resistance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I just want to pass on an idea given by Susan Cobey, to test resistance of bees to AFB. As you might know, the original test involved cutting a square of comb with capped brood, then put it in the freezer and then return it to the hole left in the original comb. If the bees cleaned all the dead brood, they were "resistant" to AFB, if not, they would be highly susceptible. The modification consists of pinning the square of brood, so to kill the larvae, but without the neccessity to remove and put back the comb. This way, she can select for resistant bees to AFB. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 17:42:28 -0500 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" Organization: Independent non-profit research Subject: Re: Effects of oil on brood development. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Mr. Pape. About FGMO. I see that you, like many people that read about FGMO have the impression that bees are "plastered" with mineral oil. If you have read my files, you'll immediately realize that I state emphatically that the amount of oil used for killing mites must be used very conscientiously, carefully, because the bees BREATH in the same manner that the mites do. If too much oil is applied, then the bees are killed too. I have now "fine tuned" my procedure to a point that there is hardly any risk involved for the bees because the amount of oil used is minute! Just enough to affect the mites but definitely no harm to the bees and definitely not enough of it to get into the honey! The results of this years phase of study should be available to the public sometime this coming summer. In approximately 1 1/2 years of continued use of mineral oil in my hives, I have not noticed any effect on the larvae. The oil, as I apply it, does not affect the larvae. People are assuming things about the method used for mineral that are not there. If my instructions for the procedure are followed, there will not be any excess oil to affect the bees, the honey, the larvae or the wax. Please remember that I am doing this work because I love bees! I don't wish for any thing wrong to happen to my bees or any other person's bees. Also please remember, that I am not doing this type of work for a salary, that my work is strictly non profit. The only benefit that may be derived from this study is strictly for the well being of beekeeping. In summary, I have found that carefully applied mineral oil is an excellent form of bee mites control without deleterious effects on the colony and its contents. After continued used of mineral oil, laboratory tests should be performed to determine if in effect mineral oil has an influence on bees wax. As I speak, I have not noticed any harmful (or otherwise) effect on the combs or wax that I have rendered. Best regards. Dr. Rodriguez Virginia Beach, VA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 16:51:06 -0600 Reply-To: gmc@vci.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: beeman Subject: FGMO MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, i would like to ask everyone that has/ is using FGMO to send their results to me, and tell how long they have used it, how they are appling it, are they are using a combo of things, and how often they are using it. i am going to try it this year and i was wondering how everyone was using it and the effects, please send me the results via PRIVATE EMAIL to gmc@vci.net... thanks to all!!! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 00:25:45 +0100 Reply-To: drs@kulmbach.baynet.de Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dr. Reimund Schuberth" Subject: Re: About AFB resistance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Teresa, I know those tests where you kill some larvae (by freezing or with a needle) and count the time until the dead brood is torn out of the combs. But what do you mean with "resistant to AFB". I personally doubt whether this can be find out by those tests. The only thing what you can test by this way is the cleaning behavior of that hive or breed nothing else. This tells you nothing special about "resistance" to AFB, varroa mites or anything else. > I just want to pass on an idea given by Susan Cobey, to test resistance > of bees to AFB. As you might know, the original test involved cutting a > square of comb with capped brood, then put it in the freezer and then > return it to the hole left in the original comb. If the bees cleaned all > the dead brood, they were "resistant" to AFB, if not, they would be > highly susceptible. > The modification consists of pinning the square of brood, so to kill the > larvae, but without the neccessity to remove and put back the comb. > This way, she can select for resistant bees to AFB. Yours sincerely Reimund Beekeeper from Germany (Bavaria) Queen Breeding of Carniolan Bees Insemination Station ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 02:00:10 +0200 Reply-To: pimapis@rls.roknet.ro Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Marian Pintilie Organization: - Subject: Re: bee hives are clean? > propolis > FGMO and PGMO MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Andy Thanks for your long and interesting answer Thank you for your long and interesting answer. The discussion passed to an interesting subject, immunisation, Allen pointed the facts better than I could. > Well if we have to be careful of what we say, scientific or not, then >I give up and declare you the winner . I should be glad. But I'm not. The way you said it seems like a cover up. I wanted truth, that's way I asked for scientific approach. and wish you lots of luck convincing the > public that honey is better then other food products because it comes from > wooden bee hives, plastic bee hives, or even bee trees. ???????????????? > I personally think of honey as a natural sweetener If this is not a sample of your black humour ( I like humour in every form, but this joke I did not understood) than you still have a lot to learn. Costel ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 15:36:52 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." Subject: Releasing a queen prematurely Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" HI from Rainy Santa Barbara, One of my hives being tended by a beginning beekeeper swarmed on Fri while I was in Las Vegas. Fortunately my student was onthe ball and captured the hive in a cardboard box, covered with plastic to protect it from some heavy rains we have been having. There was a brief lull in the storm today so we cracked open the hive, separating the two brood chambers to show him what queen cells look like in various stages of development. Mostly undeveloped queens but there was one which showed a rather mature queen. She backed out of her cell and disappeared down into the colony. I told my student that I hope she is mature enough to get rid of all the others. THe rainy weather will keep the bees caged for the next week so plenty of time for her to destroy the rivals. Keeping my fingers crossed that she does fly from the hive with a secondary swarm. Anyone else had this experience? Paul Cronshaw DC Hobby beekeeper in Santa Barbara ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 19:31:29 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Iannuzzi Subject: Re: Early Pollen - Baltimore Metro ARea In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980208091928.006bbd14@istar.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII January 8 was the date. Obviously skunk cabbage in bloom. Usually this is around the ides of February! Am still feeding my bees. Started 1nov and won't quit until the honeyflow, May 1. I want those colonies to bee boiling w/ bees by then. **John Iannuzzi, Ph.D. **38 years in apiculture **12 hives of Italian honeybees **At Historic Ellicott City, Maryland, 21042, U.S.A. (10 miles west of Baltimore, Maryland) [9772 Old Annapolis Rd - 410 730 5279] **"Forsooth there is some good in things evil For bees extract sweetness from the weed" -- Bard of Avon **Website: http://www.xmetric.com/honey **Email: jiannuzz@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us [1jan981031est] ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 19:36:57 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Iannuzzi Subject: Re: Edu. Site - Flower Show? In-Reply-To: <19980208.134214.4239.1.jayseapcok@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII The setup you described at the Flower Show in Atlanta promoting beekeeping was very well done but I didn't see a monitor showing a bee video over and over? Of course, that observation hive is a sine qua non! What about a mannequin in a bee suit and veil holding a smoker and a hive tool? Bonne chance! **John Iannuzzi, Ph.D. **38 years in apiculture **12 hives of Italian honeybees **At Historic Ellicott City, Maryland, 21042, U.S.A. (10 miles west of Baltimore, Maryland) [9772 Old Annapolis Rd - 410 730 5279] **"Forsooth there is some good in things evil For bees extract sweetness from the weed" -- Bard of Avon **Website: http://www.xmetric.com/honey **Email: jiannuzz@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us [1jan981031est] ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 19:39:46 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Frederick L. Hollen" Subject: Re: Releasing a queen prematurely In-Reply-To: ; from "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." at Feb 8, 98 3:36 pm Hello, I had almost the same experience the summer before last. I had just acquired a few established hives and was told that one had recently swarmed. When I opened this hive ( a 3-medium brood chamber) a queen cell between the boxes was broken open and what appeared to be a fully-developed queen disappeared quickly into the lower box. I do not know what became of her but I still have the hive and it is very much alive. These hives, BTW, had been totally unattended since the beekeeper died in 1992 until I took them over in 1996. The family had left them in place but had not touched them.. . . I did find them to have Varroa in the drone cells so I treated them with Apistan. . .So no way to evaluate any possible natural resistance, but I do still have the same bees. Regards, Fred (in Virginia) According to Paul Cronshaw, D.C.: > > HI from Rainy Santa Barbara, > > One of my hives being tended by a beginning beekeeper swarmed on Fri while > I was in Las Vegas. Fortunately my student was onthe ball and captured the > hive in a cardboard box, covered with plastic to protect it from some heavy > rains we have been having. > > There was a brief lull in the storm today so we cracked open the hive, > separating the two brood chambers to show him what queen cells look like in > various stages of development. Mostly undeveloped queens but there was one > which showed a rather mature queen. She backed out of her cell and > disappeared down into the colony. > > I told my student that I hope she is mature enough to get rid of all the > others. THe rainy weather will keep the bees caged for the next week so > plenty of time for her to destroy the rivals. > > Keeping my fingers crossed that she does fly from the hive with a secondary > swarm. > > Anyone else had this experience? > > Paul Cronshaw DC > Hobby beekeeper in Santa Barbara > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 19:42:40 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Iannuzzi Subject: Re: Effects of oil on brood development. In-Reply-To: <199802082136.WAA10097@solair1.inter.NL.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Please clarify for me if the Rodriquez mineral-oil method is for T-mite, V-mite or both. I've been using vegetable oil on a paper towel, between the two deep broodchamberrs, for years-- in the spring before the extracting supers go on and in the fall after they come off; therefore, there is no possibility of honey contamination. On Sun, 8 Feb 1998, Gerhard Pape wrote: > About FGMO. Why are we so concerned about ourselfs? > The discussion is going on and on about the honey and the wax we want to > sell. Okay, but. . . > Does nobody feel any concern with the bees flying out for pollen while > there body is covered with a thin layer of oil? This oil must come into the > food for the home bees and the larvae! Can larvae and bees digest this oil? > Can they digest vegetable oil as well or better? > > Question before I start using the Rodrigez-method of fighting varroa; has > there been noticed any influence on the brood developement during the > application of oil? > > Gerhard Pape > Ermelo > Netherlands > **John Iannuzzi, Ph.D. **38 years in apiculture **12 hives of Italian honeybees **At Historic Ellicott City, Maryland, 21042, U.S.A. (10 miles west of Baltimore, Maryland) [9772 Old Annapolis Rd - 410 730 5279] **"Forsooth there is some good in things evil For bees extract sweetness from the weed" -- Bard of Avon **Website: http://www.xmetric.com/honey **Email: jiannuzz@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us [1jan981031est] ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 19:53:18 -0500 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" Organization: Independent non-profit research Subject: Re: Effects of oil on brood development. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi John. In over 1 1/2 years of testing with MO, I find that mineral oil is effective against both types of bee mites, Varroa and tracheal mites. Although I have not performed tests with vegetable oil, I would venture to guess that the mechanism of action of vegetable oil is similar as with mineral oil. However, mineral how has several advantages over vegetable oil as I explained in my original release about my work. Have you obtained copies of the files that I posted to Bee-L? In them, you might find answers to a common questions that many people are asking themselves about the efficacy and other things about mineral oil. Please do not hesitate to contact me if you have questions or comments. I'll always be here to reply and try to help. Best regards. Dr. Rodriguez Virginia Beach, VA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 19:55:20 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Iannuzzi Subject: Re: pOllen > Re: Fresh Air In-Reply-To: <199802082208.OAA21084@mail.thegrid.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Andy Nachbar's lengthy comments disparaging pollen collection I found interesting. I started collecting it in 1982 (1982) and am still doing it and sell it from my front door in a one pound glass queenline jar that holds seven ounces--$7.00. There are no farms around here within a five mile radius--so I don't have to worry about noxious sprays, insecticides and what not. People buy it as a high protein food or to fight allergies. I've been running seven traps for years. In fact, I'm in the processing of installing them again right now (temperature here today, in the Baltimore metro area, hit 60 degrees F.) I can only say: "Suum cuique." **John Iannuzzi, Ph.D. **38 years in apiculture **12 hives of Italian honeybees **At Historic Ellicott City, Maryland, 21042, U.S.A. (10 miles west of Baltimore, Maryland) [9772 Old Annapolis Rd - 410 730 5279] **"Forsooth there is some good in things evil For bees extract sweetness from the weed" -- Bard of Avon **Website: http://www.xmetric.com/honey **Email: jiannuzz@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us [1jan981031est] ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 21:05:20 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Bartlett Subject: Pollen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It just seems to me because the bees obtain almost all of their vitamins, protein and minerals from pollen, that it must have some benefits. Maybe it is good for allergies for some. Not everyone can take penicilin. One day maybe we can get enough research done to look more at the products of the hive. billy bee ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 21:03:36 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: George W Imirie Subject: Re: Scorching AFB infected equipment Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Now in my 65th year with bees, I recall the days of using boiling lye solutions, scorching hive bodies and bottom boards with gasoline blow torches and using sulfur drugs to HOPEFULLY clean up AFB spores. Have you ever seen a person burned by lye, burned by a gasoline blow torch, or burned by HOT wax? I have! Best that you "play politics" and get your state to fund an ethylene oxide fumigation chamber like Maryland and North Carolina. Although many beekeepers use Terramycin for AFB, unfortunately, many beekeepers think that treatment with TM or Extender Patties KILLS American Foul Brood spores. IT DOES NOT! It only controls AFB, just like shots of insulin controls diabetes, but does not kill or cure diabetes. In my 65 years, always having 20-100+ colonies (a scientific hobby only), I have never used any Terramycin, because I do not want the presence of AFB sores HIDDEN. If hidden, not knowing I have AFB in my apiary, It can be quickly spread to every colony and my other apiaries by contaminated tools, hive parts, and HONEY. TOTAL BURNING of bees, hives, frames, wax, brood, pollen, EVERYTHING is the BEST solution and CHEAPEST in the lung run unless you have access to ethylene oxide fumigation or gamma ray irradiation. Since my bees are in the early crop area of Maryland & Virginia, I have had Carniolans for almost 50 years. Wishing a great 1998 to you and your bees, I am George Imirie ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 21:30:16 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Bartlett Subject: Organic honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit IMHO...... We are inviting some very unpleasant things into our hobby/commercial endevor. You will have people involved in making laws about your honey operation that know very little about bees and how we operate. From the very first when I started beekeeping over 25 years ago it was explained to me that the less involvement "outsiders" have in our operation the better. You will notice that we are free to carry on without the hinderences of government. Very few products for human consumption have such few regulations. Ask farmers, who happen to have bees how much they are regulated. Until we can stop using chemicals in the hive and we can tell our bees where to go and what bring home, we can not and should not be clamoring for "Organic Honey". bill bee ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 01:20:42 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Alden P. Marshall" Subject: Re: Pollen traps and supersedure >bees preserve the pollen when they make beebread, without whatever >enzymes >they add albeit. The disadvantage is that the pollen pellets lose >their >nice shape and colour and the jars look like they contain a rather >homogenous and not very attractive paste. > Perhaps this could be sold as a pollen / honey spread ? can imagine it is not very attractive. Alden Marshall B-Line Apiaries Hudson, NH 03051 Busybee9@Juno.com tel. 603-883-6764 _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 00:35:42 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Alden P. Marshall" Subject: Re: Pollen traps and supersedure Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Alden P. Marshall" Subject: Re: Pollen Trapping Affect Honey Production? On Sat, 7 Feb 1998 09:27:08 -0600 "Excerpts from BEE-L" writes: >Reply-to: Discussion of Bee Biology >From: John Iannuzzi > >This message is based on 15 years of pollen trapping, as a h o b b y >beekeeper never opeating more than 30 hives at one time--I now have >12--nor >more than seven Stauffer pollen traps--still using seven. BTW, the >best out >there, for my money, having used 11 different trap configurations, is > >(2) Obiter dicta: Remember, the bees are still carrying honey. The >pollen is >carried into the hive on the bee's two hindmost legs, a pellet each, >whereas >the nectar (potential honey) is brought in via the honey stomach, >whether the >bees are collecting pollen or not. > I believe research ha shown that all foragers do not necessarily carry both nectar and pollen. dedicated foragers must make more trips to and from the hive to provide necessary pollen. Only so many bees can provide so many resources and if we are taking them then there is a depletion somewhere. >(3) "The proper trap?" The Stauffer trap has t h r e e internal >beeways: >one across the front and one each on the long sides, whereas of the >ten >others I've seen or used have only o n e: the opening across the >front. This >severely restricts movement of the bees into and out of the hive. > >Jack the Bman > I am surprised to hear that only one entrance to the trap is a restriction. IMHO I believe the stripper is the limiting factor. If bees are not restricted at the entrance without the trap why so with the trap? If the trap in use has the drawer below the stripper, and by design they must all be so, pull the drawer during heavy foraging and observe the congestion at the stripper. My traps are my design but I can state that they are not much different than many other designs. there are some little changes one can make,to them to help keep the pollen clean, such as a restricted cover over the stripper that catches dropped dibree forcing the bees to carry it out . My traps are also designed to allow exit without going through the stripper. I have onlyt had personal experience with one other type of trap, the one that mounts out front between the brood and honey supers, found that to be very unsatisfactory. > > Alden Marshall B-Line Apiaries Hudson, NH 03051 Busybee9@Juno.com tel. 603-883-6764 _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 17:48:30 +0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robert Bowman Subject: Re: About AFB resistance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My understanding of AFB resistance and resistance to other brood diseases such as EFB and chalkbrood involves the housekeeping ability of the bees as opposed to a genetic resistance to the disease itself. AFB resistance involves the ability of house keeping bees to identify and remove infected larvae at an early stage of disease development. Thus the resistance is a whole colony resistance as opposed to an individual bee resistance. This allows the breeder to then select queens from hives which exhibit such behaviour if they are developing a line of disease resistance into their breeder queen genetic pool. I have seen this done with a reasonable amount of success for chalkbrood in that selected queens had colonies with low levels of chalkbrood as opposed to those not selected for house keeping qualities. As AFB is the primary disease of concern in Australia I would appreciate any opinions or scientific data available on resistance and control methods. Currently Terramycin is not permitted as a control method, leaving burning or irradiationof hives the only options to affected beekeepers. Regards Rob Bowman Bathurst Australia ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 00:13:41 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: Pollen traps and supersedure In-Reply-To: <19980209.015311.13094.6.busybee9@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:35 AM 2/9/98 -0500, you wrote: >dry the pollen? > Yes indeed, I have a vented solar drier that works very well. It >will hold three 1.5' x 2.5' screen bottom trays. It takes about 1 sunny >day to dry the pollen to pass the pinch test (if pollen pellets pinched >together do not adhere dry enough), real scientific huh? Pollen keeps for >months in tightly sealed jars without molding. Pellets are not so dry >that a hard pinch can't crumble them. Hi Alden & Bee Friends, Maybe I don't believe bee pollen is God's gift of food to man but I do know from personal commercial experience producing pollen and working with others who had commercial interests in marketing pollen a tad about how it can be done commercially so that the pollen is acceptable to the bulk pollen buyer and the consuming public. First let me say that IMHO most who dry pollen are not selling a natural product as even the bees would have a hard time when its that hard and much of the food value for bees would be destroyed in just a few hours of sun or heating. I agree that if you live in an area of high moisture you must take steps to preserve and protect the pollen from moisture most do this in the construction of the trap itself, but at the same time cooked pollen is like cooked honey and may have much local value to a large number of local producers but certainly would not have much food value left after cooking off those magic ingredients that are already in such minute quantizes in natural fresh frozen pollen that so many seek in promoting pollen for human consumption as an natural organic food supplement in the major marketing streams. > I clean my pollen whereas most who freeze instead of dry do not. I defy anyone who does not dry >pollen to do a descent job of cleaning in any reasonable period of time. Of course >there are arguments for and against both freezing and drying. The few I know in this area who trap >freeze it. Again lets not paint everyone with the same brush, I have never had to dry pollen and I have never known a commercial pollen producer who dried pollen but I only know a few of those in the southwest, Arizona, Colorado, and California and none had a moisture problem. The two pollen cleaning machines I used left little for the sorters to hand pick out. I have no idea what would cause anyone to believe that those who produce pollen in the dry southwest or the desert areas would have any interest in drying pollen or be less likely to do a good job cleaning their pollen before sale then any other beekeeper trying to do a good job in preparing his pollen for market, this just has not been my own experience working with other pollen producers. I only write this so that maybe others will figure out that there is more then one way to produce good high quality pollen. Fresh frozen pollen can be used in more ways then cooked or dried pollen which is important if you sell it in bulk and just maybe we should remember there are others doing the same good job we are doing using a different method but doing a equally good job. I even had an interest in a pill press and the pollen could not be as moisture free as dried pollen described above or it would not bind into a solid pill without adding a binder. ttul, the OLd Drone * This message certified 100% tagline free. (c)Permission is given to copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 03:35:10 -0500 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" Organization: Independent non-profit research Subject: Re: Fresh Air (edited) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------0C5719ABD015CDF5430A3A94" --------------0C5719ABD015CDF5430A3A94 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Allen Dick wrote: "Thanks for the fresh air . . ." Your extensive knowledge and ability to express your thoughts again came through in an excellent manner on this subject. I agree with your thinking in general principles, but a word of caution about generalizations regarding food borne illness might be good food for thought here. Along this thread, I'd like to provide a possible answer to your question at the bottom of your dissertation: " I wonder if anyone on this list . . ." Outside of botulism, I can't give any references to human illness in which honey has been implicated as a vehicle. However, I would be cautious about some food borne animal origin illnesses that are contagious to humans. A good example would be leptospirosis. "The disease occurs with various manisfestations in dogs, cattle, pigs, sheep, goats and horses, and is transmissible to man. The disease is enzootic in several species of wildlife. (*) . . . Leptospira pomona infection is maintained and spread by renal carriers in the cattle and hog populations. The common mode of natural infection is through the intake of urine contaminated feed or water. . . . Swine act as a reservoir of infection for other animals and man because apparently healthy individuals can excrete large numbers of organisms in their urine." Leptospirosis, The Merck Veterinary Manual, pp 384-395, 1967 (*) my note: mice and rats are among the wildlife that do shed these organisms in their urine. Best regards. Dr. Rodriguez Virginia Beach, VA --------------0C5719ABD015CDF5430A3A94 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Allen Dick wrote:
     "Thanks for the fresh air  . . ."
     Your extensive knowledge and ability to express your thoughts again came through in an excellent manner on this subject.  I agree with your thinking in general principles, but a word of caution about generalizations regarding food borne illness might be good food for thought here.  Along this thread,  I'd like to provide a possible answer to your question
at the bottom of your dissertation:  " I wonder if anyone on this list  . . ."
        Outside of botulism, I can't give any references to human illness in which honey has been implicated as a vehicle.  However, I would be cautious about some food borne animal origin illnesses that are contagious to humans.   A good example would be leptospirosis.
       "The disease occurs with various manisfestations in dogs, cattle, pigs, sheep, goats and horses, and is transmissible to man.  The disease is enzootic in several species of
wildlife. (*)   . . .  Leptospira pomona infection is maintained and spread by renal carriers in the cattle and hog populations.  The common mode of natural infection is through the intake of  urine contaminated feed or water.    . . .      Swine act as a reservoir of infection for other animals and man because apparently healthy individuals can excrete large numbers of organisms in their urine."  Leptospirosis, The Merck Veterinary Manual,
pp 384-395, 1967
(*)   my note:  mice and rats are among the wildlife that do shed these organisms in their urine.
Best regards.
Dr. Rodriguez
Virginia Beach, VA --------------0C5719ABD015CDF5430A3A94-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 06:51:07 -0800 Reply-To: mister-t@clinic.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Scorching AFB infected equipment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit George, I understand that the EPA does not allow ETO to be used any more. We are at a standstill in Maine with our ETO chamber because of that. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME George W Imirie wrote: > Best that you "play politics" and get your state > to fund an ethylene oxide fumigation chamber like Maryland and North Carolina. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 08:03:24 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Richard Bonney Subject: Re: Releasing a queen prematurely MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > There was a brief lull in the storm today so we cracked open the hive, > separating the two brood chambers to show him what queen cells look >like in various stages of development. Mostly undeveloped queens but >there was one which showed a rather mature queen. She backed out of >her cell and disappeared down into the colony. Do you make anything of her backing out rather than emerging normally? Dick Bonney rebonney@javanet.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 08:28:37 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Iannuzzi Subject: Re: Cleaning Pollen, etc. In-Reply-To: <199802090813.AAA04940@mail.thegrid.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi Andy and Alden, I've read your posts about cleaning pollen, etc. I think both of you err since you don't make the distinction between the hobby collector (like me) and the commerical one. Incidentally I freeze mine AFTER it's dried to prevent wax-worm egg hatch out--it is ALWAYS present. The dried pollen is sold in one-pound queenline jars. I don't have any problems w/ mold, vermin, etc. I've been doing it sinc 1982 (1982). I will bee the first to admit that my method is labor-intensive! Again, "suum cuique." That's what makes the world go around. On Mon, 9 Feb 1998, Andy Nachbaur wrote: > At 12:35 AM 2/9/98 -0500, you wrote: > > > >dry the pollen? > > > Yes indeed, I have a vented solar drier that works very well. It > >will hold three 1.5' x 2.5' screen bottom trays. It takes about 1 sunny > >day to dry the pollen to pass the pinch test (if pollen pellets pinched > >together do not adhere dry enough), real scientific huh? Pollen keeps for > >months in tightly sealed jars without molding. Pellets are not so dry > >that a hard pinch can't crumble them. > > Hi Alden & Bee Friends, > > Maybe I don't believe bee pollen is God's gift of food to man but I do know > from personal commercial experience producing pollen and working with > others who had commercial interests in marketing pollen a tad about how it > can be done commercially so that the pollen is acceptable to the bulk > pollen buyer and the consuming public. > > First let me say that IMHO most who dry pollen are not selling a natural > product as even the bees would have a hard time when its that hard and much > of the food value for bees would be destroyed in just a few hours of sun or > heating. I agree that if you live in an area of high moisture you must > take steps to preserve and protect the pollen from moisture most do this in > the construction of the trap itself, but at the same time cooked pollen is > like cooked honey and may have much local value to a large number of local > producers but certainly would not have much food value left after cooking > off those magic ingredients that are already in such minute quantizes in > natural fresh frozen pollen that so many seek in promoting pollen for human > consumption as an natural organic food supplement in the major marketing > streams. > > > I clean my pollen whereas most who freeze instead of dry do not. I defy > anyone who does not dry >pollen to do a descent job of cleaning in any > reasonable period of time. Of course > >there are arguments for and against both freezing and drying. The few I > know in this area who trap >freeze it. > > Again lets not paint everyone with the same brush, I have never had to dry > pollen and I have never known a commercial pollen producer who dried pollen > but I only know a few of those in the southwest, Arizona, Colorado, and > California and none had a moisture problem. The two pollen cleaning > machines I used left little for the sorters to hand pick out. I have no > idea what would cause anyone to believe that those who produce pollen in > the dry southwest or the desert areas would have any interest in drying > pollen or be less likely to do a good job cleaning their pollen before sale > then any other beekeeper trying to do a good job in preparing his pollen > for market, this just has not been my own experience working with other > pollen producers. > > I only write this so that maybe others will figure out that there is more > then one way to produce good high quality pollen. Fresh frozen pollen can > be used in more ways then cooked or dried pollen which is important if you > sell it in bulk and just maybe we should remember there are others doing > the same good job we are doing using a different method but doing a equally > good job. I even had an interest in a pill press and the pollen could not > be as moisture free as dried pollen described above or it would not bind > into a solid pill without adding a binder. > > ttul, the OLd Drone > > * This message certified 100% tagline free. > > > > (c)Permission is given to copy this document > in any form, or to print for any use. > > (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! > **John Iannuzzi, Ph.D. **38 years in apiculture **12 hives of Italian honeybees **At Historic Ellicott City, Maryland, 21042, U.S.A. (10 miles west of Baltimore, Maryland) [9772 Old Annapolis Rd - 410 730 5279] **"Forsooth there is some good in things evil For bees extract sweetness from the weed" -- Bard of Avon **Website: http://www.xmetric.com/honey **Email: jiannuzz@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us [1jan981031est] ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 06:55:50 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Curtis Seyfried Subject: Is there a BEE-L FAQ ? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Is there a Bee-L Frequently Asked Questions ( FAQ ) ? What is AFB ? Peace and Good Health, (;->) Curtis Seyfried cseyfrie@mail.interport.net , curtisseyfri@valise.com CS Enterprises POB. 110675 Brooklyn, NY. 11211 (718) 599-2458 ======================== Consultant, B.Sc. - Environmental & Life Sciences, MA. - Environmental Policy Studies and Analysis - SUNYESC, 1992-97 Diplomas - New York University - Paralegal Studies, 1995 & Building Construction Project Management, 1988. Promoting local economic growth through the formation of cooperative businesses, revolving around food waste composting, local/regional high value agriculture, and cooperative marketing. Waste-to-fertilizer-to-food-to jobs. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 14:14:48 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Peter Hutton Organization: Amigabee computer networking for beekeepers Subject: Radar Tracking of Bees, Riley CHRS: IBMPC 2 CODEPAGE: 437 MSGID: 240:244/116 2a2c859b REPLY: 240:44/0 19a4998f PID: FDAPX/w 1.12a UnReg(201) BL> Hi: BL> The name is Joe Riley in England. Just got an e-mail. This BL> system is not commercially available nor affordable for most BL> individuals. BL> The Canadian's have had some success with hand-held radar BL> guns used to find people trapped in an avalanch. Still BL> pricey at @$7000 for a full system. BL> Cheap if you are the one buried under the snow. Not so BL> cheap for tracking BL> bees. BL> Jerry BL> Jerry J. Bromenshenk, Ph.D. BL> Director, DOE/EPSCoR & Montana Organization for Research in BL> Energy The University of Montana-Missoula BL> Missoula, MT 59812-1002 BL> E-Mail: jjbmail@selway.umt.edu BL> Tel: 406-243-5648 BL> Fax: 406-243-4184 Hallo Jerry, I don't follow the thread of this mail, but I have attended two very good lectures last year and the year before on Radar Tracking of Bumble and honeybees. Scientists at IHR Rothampstead in England have been conducting research on pollination by particularly bumble bees, In order to track the bees the researchers have attached a diode to the bee's thorax, this acts as an atennae which receives a signal from a radar dish of given size transmitting at a given n cycles/second, the signal bounces off the antennae and is received back by a smaller dish at half the transmission cycles, the returned signal is plotted by computer to give a position up to a maximum of one kilometer, the plot then shows where the bee has travelled. The system has been modified to use only one dish to transmit and receive back the signals. The work continues this year and the results will be published. Dr,. Julia Osborne is the researcher in this program. There is an Email address. The web url for IHR Rothampstead is http://www.res.bbsrc.ac.uk/entnem this is the Varroa hub with many links and the Email address you will need to contact Dr. Osborne. From the Garden of England best wishes Peter Hutton --- * Origin: Kent Beekeeper Beenet Point (240:244/116) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 08:56:50 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Partin Subject: AFB Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) IF I USE RESISTANT QUEENS AND THEY ROB AN INFECTED HIVE OUT THEY SHOULD COME DOWN WITH A LITTLE AFB . THEY ALSO SHOULD CLEEN IT UP VERY QUICKLY. IT IS VERRY LIKELY I WOULD NOT KNOW ANY THING ABOUT IT. WOULD I NOT HAVE SPOORS IN MY EQUIPMENT AFTER THIS. SHOULD I NOT ASSUME THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS. IS THERE SOMETHING WRONG WITH THIS THINKING. IF THERE IS PLEASE TELL ME. I'M SURE THERE IS. BUD 500-1000 HIVES FLORIDA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 19:09:40 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "A.S.CHESNICK" Subject: use for skeeps MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Use em for temporary swarm storage or make an observation hive out of them. Just cut the skips in half and glue a piece of glassier clear plastic(DO NOT USE PLASTIC WRAP!!!use plexy glass or somthing)maybe make a small glass window on the other side for lighting. the only problem the skeeps have to be pretty big ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 09:00:21 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Ohio State Offers Queen Classes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY SHORT COURSES The Art Of Queen Rearing May 21 and 22, 1998 The art of queen rearing is one of the most pleasurable and rewarding aspects of beekeeping. This class is designed to give the beekeeper an understanding and appreciation of what it takes to rear high quality queens, as a hobby or on a commercial scale. The two day queen rearing short course is offered Thursday and Friday May 21 and 22 at the Ohio State University Rothenbuhler Honey Bee Research Laboratory in Columbus, Ohio. The basic biology and principals of queen rearing will be presented. Beekeepers will be involved in going through the various steps of the process, including using breeder boxes, setting up cell builders, grafting, handling queen cells and establishing mating nucs. Tips on drone rearing and mating queens will also be presented. The class will consist of a combination of classroom and hands on beekeeping. Two basic queen rearing systems will be used, a queen right system and a queen less system. We will make some of the specialized equipment needed - grafting tool, cell bars and holding frames - of which participants can take home and get started right away in their own apiaries. Queen cells will also be available. Please bring a hot water bottle in an insulated carry box. Prerequisite: Knowledge of basic beekeeping is required. Bring your bee veil. Registration: Registration is $100, this includes queen rearing supplies. Information on lodging will be included in the registration packet. Deadline for registration is May 1st. For more information contact : Susan Cobey Ohio State University, 1735 Neil Ave. Columbus, OH 43210. Tel (614) 292-7928, Fax (614) 292- 5237, E-Mail cobey.1@osu.edu INSTRUMENTAL INSEMINATION AND HONEY BEE BREEDING SHORT COURSE June 17, 18, and 19th , 1998 An intensive three day course on the technique of instrumental insemination and bee breeding is offered at the Ohio State University Rothenbuhler Honey Bee Research Laboratory in Columbus, Ohio every summer. The three day course is scheduled Wednesday through Friday. The class is designed for commercial beekeepers who are involved in a breeding program or who want to improve upon an existing program. It is also designed for laboratory personnel requiring the skill for research purposes. A practical hands-on approach to instruction is provided with emphasis on individual attention. Participants become familiar with the assembly and alignment of equipment and sterilization methods. Various types of insemination instruments are available for comparison and review of their features. The preparation and care of virgin queens and drones, post-insemination care and introduction of inseminated queens will be discussed in detail. Basic bee genetics and various breeding systems will be presented. Demonstration materials, virgin queens and drones will be provided. Participants receive a booklet of reprints reviewing methods of bee breeding and the technique of instrumental insemination. Instructor: Susan Cobey Classes are taught principally by Susan Cobey, who has extensive experience in commercial queen production, establishing and maintaining a bee breeding program and has published numerous articles in the beekeeping literature on related topics. Prerequisite: Knowledge of queen rearing experience is required. Beekeepers must provide their own insemination equipment. Microscopes and lights will be provided for use. Registration: Registration is $300. Lodging, meals and transportation are not included in the registration fee. Information on lodging will be included in the registration packet. Enrollment is limited and will be based upon beekeeping experience. Deadline for registration is May 15th. For more information contact : Susan Cobey Ohio State University, 1735 Neil Ave. Columbus, OH 43210. Tel (614) 292-7928, Fax (614) 292- 5237, E-Mail cobey.1@osu.edu Susan Cobey The Ohio State University Department of Entomology B&Z Building Room 103 1735 Neil Ave. Columbus, OH 43210 Ph. (614) 292-7928 FAX (614) 292-5237 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 07:06:24 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Is there a BEE-L FAQ ? In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980209064912.0ddf49be@mail.interport.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Is there a Bee-L Frequently Asked Questions ( FAQ ) ? --- FAQs? There is no BEE-L FAQ - as such - but you can search for answers to most common questions by visiting http://www.beekeeping.co.nz/beel.htm or send email to LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU and say Search BEE-L KEYWORD(S) ('KEYWORD(S)' means a word or words unique to your question) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 21:30:40 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Peter Hutton Organization: Amigabee computer networking for beekeepers Subject: irradiation of hives CHRS: IBMPC 2 CODEPAGE: 437 MSGID: 240:244/116 2a32e806 REPLY: 240:44/0 e845c901 PID: FDAPX/w 1.12a UnReg(202) BL> Received: from Nora.PCUG.CO.UK by helen.pcug.co.uk id BL> aa10616; BL> 6 Feb 98 15:06 GMT BL> Received: from uacsc2.albany.edu [169.226.1.21] BL> by nora.pcug.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.71 #9) BL> id 0y0pKi-0005ku-00; Fri, 6 Feb 1998 15:04:49 +0000 BL> Received: from CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU by CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (IBM VM BL> SMTP V2R4) BL> with BSMTP id 2334; Fri, 06 Feb 98 10:01:46 EST BL> Received: from CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (NJE origin BL> LISTSERV@ALBNYVM1) by CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) BL> with BSMTP id 7252; Fri, 6 Feb 1998 09:59:18 -0500 Received: BL> from CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU by CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP BL> release BL> 1.8c) with spool id 4474 for BL> BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU; Fri, 6 Feb 1998 BL> 09:59:09 -0500 BL> Received: from ALBNYVM1 (NJE origin SMTPIN1@ALBNYVM1) by BL> CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU BL> (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with BSMTP id 7244; Fri, 6 Feb BL> 1998 09:59:08 -0500 BL> Received: from mailmtx.acnet.net (170.76.16.10) by BL> CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (IBM VM BL> SMTP V2R4) with TCP; Fri, 06 Feb 98 09:59:07 EST BL> Received: from default (ppp18-ver.acnet.net [167.114.24.216]) BL> by BL> mailmtx.acnet.net (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id JAA06888 for BL> From: Teresa Garcma BL> Subject: irradiation of hives BL> To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU BL> Robert, BL> Could you please explain a little bit more about this BL> irradiation technique? With what do you irradiate? Is it not BL> dangerous for the person who does it? Is it done "All over" BL> Australia"? and please, just out of curiosity, what part of BL> Australia are you from? Hallo, just to say irradiation with Cobalt 60 was available in Britain for beehives and was said to be 100% effective. Beekeepers here were rather too tight fisted to pay the relatively high price asked by the Irradiators. The irradiators found better pickings at the supermarket suppliers by irradiating fresh vegetables instead. This was ten or fifteen years ago, we never hear of it now or see any advertising. I guess it still is available but irradiation is a touchy subject. Not good for the supermarket image. from the Garden of England peter hutton --- * Origin: Kent Beekeeper Beenet Point (240:244/116) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 21:23:52 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Garry Libby Subject: Re: Early Pollen - Baltimore Metro ARea John Ianuzzi wrote: "Am still feeding my bees. Started 1nov and won't quit until the honeyflow, May 1" Hello John, What are You feeding the bees?And how? Thanks, Garry Libby Boston,USA LibBEE@msn.com if con is the opposite of pro, is congress the opposite of progress? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 09:18:37 -0500 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" Organization: Independent non-profit research Subject: Re: Is there a BEE-L FAQ ? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Curtis. Good morning. You are probably going to get several hundred answer in your electronic mail box! But just in case that the "wise guys" think that it is "dumb" not to know what AFB, I am answering your question. AFB stands for American Foul Brood disease. A bacterium that reproduces forming spores and very capable of destroying an apiary in short order. With good sanitary practices, people don't have to worry about AFB. But, as a rule, beekeepers tend to be sloppy, and pay the consequences. The mite infestation is a good example of that! Have a wonderful day, my friend. Pedro ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 09:41:02 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joel Govostes Subject: Re: About AFB resistance In-Reply-To: <34DE4231.1F34@acnet.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" This standard sort of procedure will indicate which colonies are most hygenic, in how quickly or completely they remove *dead brood*, specifically, freeze-killed brood. It is dead brood, but not AFB-killed brood. There are other factors with AFB-killed brood, such as the consistency of the brood (stage of decomposition) and the remaining scales which contaminate the cells. Ideally, AFB brood would be introduced and the colonies monitored as to the amount of cleaning up they do. Whether they succumb to AFB after that is another question. Some colonies can be given rancid AFB brood-combs, clean them up, and use them without immediate disease manifestation. According to Roger Morse, this shows that stress is another crucial factor in whether or not a colony "gets" AFB. >I just want to pass on an idea given by Susan Cobey, to test resistance >of bees to AFB. As you might know, the original test involved cutting a >square of comb with capped brood, then put it in the freezer and then >return it to the hole left in the original comb. If the bees cleaned all >the dead brood, they were "resistant" to AFB, if not, they would be >highly susceptible. >The modification consists of pinning the square of brood, so to kill the >larvae, but without the neccessity to remove and put back the comb. >This way, she can select for resistant bees to AFB. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 18:29:39 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: how clean is the interiorof a hive Hi All Recently I plated swabs from the inside of a hive testing for certain organisms that I am interested in and did not find them. I did however find that there are a reasonable number of organisms living in different hives, including E.coli on broodsurfaces(I gather maybe from human contactinfecting them), and certain filamentous yeasts. (Candida's) The level of contamination would be about the same I would estimate as a hand which has been recently washed with a non-disinfectant soap. I will do this again and post the results on the list. Last time I only recorded that the organisms I was looking for were not present. Keep well Garth PS on the topic of scorching frames to kill spores, many sporesof micro organisms are extremely stable due to inclusion of special substances into their structure which protect agains both heat and irradiation by certain high energy wavelengths and particles. Without knowledge of theseit would be very difficulttoestimate whatpercentage of sporeswouldbe inactivated at a certain temperature. --- Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Apis melifera capensis Grahamstown 800mm annual precipitation 6139 Eastern Cape South Africa Phone 27-0461-311663 On holiday for a few months Rhodes University Which means: working with bees 15 hours a day! Interests: Fliis and bees Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this post in no way reflect those of Rhodes University. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 12:10:38 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rod Hewitt Subject: Re: trach Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I used it last year on my three hives fed in sugar water solution and grease patties in the fall. My bees are doing fine at this point. RDH ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 20:19:37 +0100 Reply-To: drs@kulmbach.baynet.de Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Dr. Reimund Schuberth" Subject: Re: Scorching AFB infected equipment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Mr. Imirie, I hardly could believe what I read. There are some beekeepers in USA that practise beekeeping in such a reasonable way (in my mind). Surely it is easier to grab some drugs out of the medicine cabinet to treat the bees. But I personally and more and more consumers of bee products don't want that kind of beekeeping. Your way of beekeeping works and it does also in other parts of the world. Here in Germany we use quite similar methods of handling AFB. By the way a little difference: we sometimes make artifical swarms with clean chambers and wax foundations, if one has a only a few hives with beginning AFB or a hive of excellent breed. But this is rearly an exception mostly the hives are burned just as you do. Perhaps it is more than pure coincidence - we predominantly have Carniolan bees, too. Sincerely Reimund Beekeeper in Germany (Bavaria) Queen Rearing of Carniolan Bees Insemination Station > Now in my 65th year with bees, I recall the days of using boiling lye > solutions, scorching hive bodies and bottom boards with gasoline blow torches > and using sulfur drugs to HOPEFULLY clean up AFB spores. > Have you ever seen a person burned by lye, burned by a gasoline blow torch, or > burned by HOT wax? I have! Best that you "play politics" and get your state > to fund an ethylene oxide fumigation chamber like Maryland and North Carolina. > Although many beekeepers use Terramycin for AFB, unfortunately, many > beekeepers think that treatment with TM or Extender Patties KILLS American > Foul Brood spores. IT DOES NOT! It only controls AFB, just like shots of > insulin controls diabetes, but does not kill or cure diabetes. > In my 65 years, always having 20-100+ colonies (a scientific hobby only), I > have never used any Terramycin, because I do not want the presence of AFB > sores HIDDEN. If hidden, not knowing I have AFB in my apiary, It can be > quickly spread to every colony and my other apiaries by contaminated tools, > hive parts, and HONEY. > TOTAL BURNING of bees, hives, frames, wax, brood, pollen, EVERYTHING is the > BEST solution and CHEAPEST in the lung run unless you have access to ethylene > oxide fumigation or gamma ray irradiation. > Since my bees are in the early crop area of Maryland & Virginia, I have had > Carniolans for almost 50 years. > Wishing a great 1998 to you and your bees, I am George Imirie ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 20:31:24 +0000 Reply-To: luichart.woollens@virgin.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Harry Goudie Organization: Luichart Woollens Subject: Re: Organic honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bill Bartlett wrote: > Very few products > for human consumption have such few regulations. Ask farmers, who happen > to have bees how much they are regulated. Here in Britain, it would appear, that we now have exactly the same regulations as farmers and I would expect that other countries will follow suit. > > Until we can stop using chemicals in the hive and we can tell our bees > where to go and what bring home, we can not and should not be clamoring for > "Organic Honey". If you have the will to do so then you can keep bees at the present time without the use of chemicals especially if you are a "Hobby" beekeeper. Perhaps not if you are a "Bee Farmer". We can't control where the bees go or what they bring back but we can control what we give to them. Perhaps this is not "Organic Honey" but it is a start in that direction. I think that many commercial beekeepers would love to call their honey "Organic" if they could get away with it. -- Harry Scotland Knitwear Web pages: http://freespace.virgin.net/luichart.woollens/ Beekeeping Page: http://freespace.virgin.net/luichart.woollens/page8.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 13:49:06 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Andy Nachbaur by way of Andy Nachbaur " Subject: (fwd) Sue Bee Jan. Member Letter Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" On Mon, 09 Feb 1998 21:33:43 GMT, in sci.agriculture.beekeeping andy.nachbaur@calwest.net (Andy Nachbaur) wrote: 1998 Honey Crop Initital Advance Authorized Jan. 27, 1998 In a letter to members the Sioux Honey Association Board of Directors pass on this information for members that my give non members some idea of the value of honey at least to the 400+ producers who are members of the largest honey packing cooperative in the US. The initital advance on the 1998 crop will be $0.35 US for both Sue Bee Bottlegrade and Aunt Sue Bottlegrade honey pools. The pool #3 and Special Pool will receive $0.30 US, and the Pool #4 $0.15 US. Beeswax will bring a $1.00 initital advace. (all US coin & US weights in pounds) Sue Bee members also receive a $0.07 US per pound March 1 advance on all 1997 crop honey bringing the advances to $0.55 US for Sue Bee & Aunt Sue grades, and $0.50 US for Pool 3 and Special Pool honey. Pool #4 has returned $0.35 US and Beeswax returns so far have been $1.50 US. Members delivered 36,400,000 US pounds of honey from their 1997 crop and estamated sales to the June 30, 1998 end of fiscal year are 46,000,000 US pounds up from the 42,680,000 US pounds 1996 crop sales. The increase in sales is said to be in the lower value industural bulk markets. ttul, the OLd Drone * A cynic smells the flowers and looks for the casket. (c)Permission is given to copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! (c)Permission is given to copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 18:23:46 +0000 Reply-To: jlhamil@atcon.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Jack/Lorraine Hamilton Subject: Nova Scotia's Annual Convention notice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Good Evening Bee-L Please forward this submission as soon as possible to any groups appropriate: The Nova Scotia Beekeepers Association is having their Annual convention in The Kentville Research Center on Feb. 20, 21 1998. Featured guest speaker will be Lawrence Cutts Florida State Apiarist. There will also be a presentation by Lawrence at the Bedford Legion #1772 Bedford Hwy. at 7:30 pm on Thursday Feb. 19. Everyone please attend and hear the latest news on honeybee mite controls and more. For more information contact Jack Hamilton at jlhamil@atcon.com Jack Hamilton ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 18:39:46 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: George W Imirie Subject: Re: use for skeeps Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Skeps are illegal in Maryland, because a bee inspector cannot remove the combs for inspection - particularly AFB. I think most states do not allow the use of skeps. In 1922, 1 out of every three colonies in Maryland had AFB. Maryland started its mandatory inspection program then, and for many, many years our AFB incidence averages about Half of One Percent. Thank the Lord. Let us keep it that level or lower! George Imirie ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 02:01:09 +0200 Reply-To: pimapis@rls.roknet.ro Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Marian Pintilie Organization: - Subject: Re: how clean is the interiorof a hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Garth Thank you very much for this information. Is good to have scientific prove of your supposition. > I did however find that there are a reasonable number of organisms > living in different hives, including E.coli on broodsurfaces(I gather > maybe from human contactinfecting them), and certain filamentous > yeasts. (Candida's) > > The level of contamination would be about the same I would estimate > as a hand which has been recently washed with a non-disinfectant > soap. It will be interesting if you could done the same tests for different type of propolization, especialy for non propolised hives. Costel ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 19:08:41 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Nick The Beeman Subject: Re: Releasing a queen prematurely Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Question: Can anyone explain this? WE split a hive (very whell almost to nothing in brood) yet it still swarmed about 1 1/2 months later Thank you Nick ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 21:21:50 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Al Needham Subject: Re: Correction of url on Ye Olde Honey Bee Book Shoppe Hi: A BEE-L subscriber just pointed out to me that I ' mistyped " the url on the Book Shoppe. I transposed two letters. Correct URL is: http://www.xensei.com/users/alwine/books.html Al, -------- <"Mailto: awneedham@juno.com" > Scituate,Massachusetts,USA The Beehive-Educational Honey Bee Site Visit Ye Olde Honey Bee Book Shoppe http://www.xensei.com/users/alwine _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 22:36:23 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Iannuzzi Subject: Re: Early Pollen - Baltimore Metro ARea In-Reply-To: <01b521944020928UPIMSSMTPUSR01@email.msn.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sugar syrup, half water/half sugar by volume in half gallon boardman feeders so that I can see when the glass containers are MT. My sugar is "sweepings" purchased at 10c/lb. On Sun, 8 Feb 1998, Garry Libby wrote: > John Ianuzzi wrote: > "Am still feeding my bees. Started 1nov and won't > quit until the honeyflow, May 1" > > Hello John, > > What are You feeding the bees?And how? > > Thanks, > > Garry Libby > Boston,USA > LibBEE@msn.com > if con is the opposite of pro, > is congress the opposite of progress? > **John Iannuzzi, Ph.D. **38 years in apiculture **12 hives of Italian honeybees **At Historic Ellicott City, Maryland, 21042, U.S.A. (10 miles west of Baltimore, Maryland) [9772 Old Annapolis Rd - 410 730 5279] **"Forsooth there is some good in things evil For bees extract sweetness from the weed" -- Bard of Avon **Website: http://www.xmetric.com/honey **Email: jiannuzz@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us [1jan981031est] ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 22:54:05 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Green Subject: Re: Releasing a queen prematurely Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-02-09 19:11:15 EST, BeemanNick@AOL.COM (Nick The Beeman) writes: <> Two year old queens are programed to swarm. Often you can delay that by removing brood or bees to make a nuc, or jack up weak hives...... But they often will eventually swarm anyway. I had a few old queens last spring that were knocked back to nearly nothing, came back like gangbusters, and eventually a high percentage of them swarmed at midsummer. Younger queens are unlikely to swarm, unless they are very crowded. I've seen three or four week old queens swarm from nucs, when they were delayed in getting into ten frame boxes. One summer I had a hive next to my honey house that kept getting added bees from the supers that were brought in (there shouldn't have been too many, because there was always a nuc next to the window bee escape, but some would drift off the truck when I pulled the net). They swarmed three times during the summer, much to my amazement. The first queen was a Buckfast of that year, and each one after was one they raised. In the fall they appeared to have superseded, but the new queen was a dingaling, and I had to combine them with another hive. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 22:54:08 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: David Green Subject: Finally a nice day in the South! (SCarolina Report) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I'm getting real tired of El Nino's dastardly deeds, and hope that today's sunshine was a taste of a lot more to come. It has been gray and overcast on most of the few days it hasn't been raining. Shades of a Great Lakes winter! -- Except for the warmth. Our lungs have been full of creeping crud, just like they used to do during the "Great Gray Funk" of winter in the lee of Lake Ontario. Maybe the sun will clean them out. I won't be laughing at the pale, coughing, sickly folks who come to Myrtle Beach from "upNawth", for Easter vacation this year. Maybe I'll go join them for a change. We've had just about our annual rainfall since Christmas, so everyone is expecting drought this summer. Go figure! Today was gorgeous. Maples have been in bloom for two weeks, but today was the first day for the bees to get onto it, and they were hauling in maple pollen this afternoon. Daffodils were bright and beautiful in the sunshine. Our neighborhood pear and apple trees are in blossom; we can forget any fruit crop around here this year. We've got the best wild mustard bloom I've seen in many years, due to the inability of the famers to cut the fields. Mustard yields little nectar, but very rich pollen......if only the bees will get a chance to work it. I fed one yard, and it was nice to find them in good shape. Some of the bees I moved in the drizzle Saturday were pretty poor and greasy looking. They'll get feed and a closer look tomorrow. This yard was inaccessible, as there was a gully big enough to break an axle right across the roadway to the bee yard, a momento of our 5.7 inches of rain last week. I had to walk in for the last couple hundred feet, carrying some pails of syrup. There was a little water still running over the paved road going to the bee yard, but the sand in the road showed that it been much higher. Most of the hives had eaten all the last feeding and were anxiously awaiting more. A couple bees told me they were mad that I let them run out of feed. But all were smiling when I left. I always come home high, when the bees look good. -Even if the weather has been lousy. Some of the hives were clustering in the feeder rims, so it's about time to start adding second boxes for more brood. When you see a huge cluster with nice clean looking, sweet smelling bees, you got a mama cow, pregnant with twins or triplets. The goundhog said six more weeks ..... which is about right for the first real flow...... Just gotta' make sure they don't run out of chow until then..... Warm, but overcast weather has kept them active, rearing brood, and eating up their reserves. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 22:51:45 +0100 Reply-To: Barry@Birkey.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Organization: BIRKEY.COM Subject: Re: Finally a nice day in the South! (SCarolina Report) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Green wrote: > Today was gorgeous. Maples have been in bloom for two weeks, but today was > the first day for the bees to get onto it, and they were hauling in maple > pollen this afternoon. Daffodils were bright and beautiful in the sunshine. > Our neighborhood pear and apple trees are in blossom; we can forget any fruit > crop around here this year. We've got the best wild mustard bloom I've seen > in many years, due to the inability of the famers to cut the fields. Mustard > yields little nectar, but very rich pollen......if only the bees will get a > chance to work it. Dave - I know it's time to start getting my equipment ready when you start talking like this! It's nice to know the Spring thing is happening somewhere even if it is premature. Hope you can keep up when it breaks loose. -Barry -- Barry Birkey West Chicago, Illinois USA Barry@Birkey.com http://www.birkey.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 22:48:32 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Alden P. Marshall" Subject: Re: Bee Diets Hi Nutrition Enthusiasts, I've been spending a little time surfing the WEB for yeast cultures that might be suitable to mix with the expeller soy flour and pollen I have. Here are a couple that sounded pretty good to me 1. A product of JEFO called "Diamond V". protein 15%, fat 4.0%,fibre 5.5%, ash 4.0%,moisture 11.0%, lactic acid 0.9%. 2. A product of Western Yeast Culture "2X-2-2-5" I do not have the ingredient breakdown on this product yet but intend to have it soon. I talked to a gentleman representing prod.#2 and he indicated there was a beekeeper in Montana who purchased a lot of the product. They do claim that these products are more expensive than brewers yeast because of the active culture. This of course is claimed to further assist in the assimilation of feed nutrients. I plan to try Item #2 primarily because of convenience, the area distributors is rather close. It's about $20 for a 50# bag, that doesn't seem to expensive to me. Anybody out there familiar with either of these products? Alden Marshall B-Line Apiaries Hudson, NH 03051 Busybee9@Juno.com tel. 603-883-6764 _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 00:33:41 -0500 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" Organization: Independent non-profit research Subject: Re: Releasing a queen prematurely MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Nick. Sometimes we wait until it is already too late. If they have developed "swarm fever" when we get to them, then it is already late and they will surely split, go vamoose, swarm. I know that perhaps I may not be making much sense, but it just seems to me that way. Good luck with the next. Dr. R. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 01:54:18 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Teresa Garcma Subject: Re: AFB MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable John Partin, I don=B4t have probems with EFB or AFB, but I was told long ago, that if=20 you suspect there=B4s a disease in the surroundings, you should "burn"=20 your hivetool in the smoker for a few seconds between hives.=20 Tere ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 02:05:03 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Teresa Garcma Subject: Re: About AFB resistance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I started reading the mail from the bottom up, for a change, so, please, Reimund, excuse me if I repeat this to Joel. Dr. Rothenbuhler made research about the relationship between the cleaning behaviour and resistance to AFB. His work was published in English in 1958, 1964, 1967 and 1975. A digest of this accomplishment in genetic improvement appears in the book edited by Dr. Tom Rinderer: "Bee Genetics and Breeding" (1986)in chapters 6 and 16. It contains references. I just wanted to pass on a very simple (I think) procedure to test the cleaning behaviour, that was given to me. Prevention is better than treatment and cheaper too. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 21:25:50 +0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Murray McGregor Subject: Re: Resistant Varroa Mites In-Reply-To: <199802071443.OAA18965@mail.iol.ie> MIME-Version: 1.0 In article <199802071443.OAA18965@mail.iol.ie>, Computer Software Solutions Ltd writes > >It seems to me, that with the emergence of resistant mites, that DR >Rodriguez case for using non chemical treatments has been largely vindicated >and possibly fully proved. It also seems to me, that there are two kinds of >beekeepers. One is the older variety in terms of years spent with bees. I am >of the opinion that these beekeepers are not too open to new ideas. The >other variety, like myself, is the newer beekeeper, who is more open to new >ideas, since every idea to us is a new idea. Like all activities carried out >in this technological age, beekeeping is better for a technological approach >which is environmentally benign. I have plans to put Dr Rodriguez system >into operation as soon as I can. Dear Tom, As with another posting on this, I regret that I cannot agree with this assertion. To suggest that the older beekeepers active on this list are not receptive to new ideas must be wrong. There is however a pragmatic and realistic appraisal, sometimes brutally so, of 'new' ideas. What may appear to be new to the newcomer is often an old idea in new clothes, and older heads spot this right away, and quickly and sensibly discard what is of no use to them, but home in very quickly on anything good. There is probably very little that highly experienced people, like Andy for example, will not have seen, or done, or heard of being done, and thus can spot and discard a 'lemon' with an ease which can seem like blank dismissal to the less experienced. There is also nothing remarkable about knowing that mite resistance to fluvalinate would emerge. The nature of all synthetic pyrethroids is such that immune populations do not take long to build up, and thus the clock is ticking for them from their first use. Their useful life can be safeguarded by two principal methods. Firstly, they should only be used as directed, because innaccurate dosing is very helpful to resistance development. Secondly, by using alternating treatment methods, which should nip the resistant mites with something else at the next round of treatment. If you have more than one proven treatment available to you you should use both the accurate dosages and the alternating treatments in your varroa strategy. >I have plans to put Dr Rodriguez system >into operation as soon as I can. Hopefully you will not have to for a good while yet, as, to the best of my knowledge, Ireland is still varroa free. I know it is supposed to deal with tracheal mites as well but you should check if you have a genuine problem with them before proceeding with a treatment regime, especially one which, although very interesting and promising, still must be viewed as in its embryonic stages. Aside from this issue for the moment, I read with great interest the various postings about the Texas vs. John Caldiera case. I noted however, that no-one seemed to be looking at the issue behind it all: the use of MAVRIK. Whilst the tactics used by the authorities were, from all reports, ridiculous and draconian, it is probably important to discover why they wanted to take this action. We over here have not heard enough about the case to reach a balanced conclusion. There will probably be some who will jump in here and say it was just to protect vested interests, but it could just be that they were aware of the situation which had built up in Europe through the use of innaccurate fluvalinate dosing using home made MAVRIK treatments. It is strongly implicated in resistance development where undertreatment has occurred and high residue levels in wax where overdosed. It is certainly cheap, but you could be borrowing from your future to save a bit now, as it will possibly shorten the useful life of fluvalinate as a varroa control measure. It will be interesting over the coming seasons to see where the genuinely resistant mites first appear in North America and see if it is a high MAVRIK use area. Of course, you live in a free country over there and education, not litigation, should have been the approach. -- Murray McGregor murray@denrosa.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 07:27:54 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Augustus C.Skamarycz" Subject: Re: AFB Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At 01:54 AM 2/10/98 -0600, you wrote: >John Partin, > >I don=B4t have probems with EFB or AFB, but I was told long ago, that if=20 >you suspect there=B4s a disease in the surroundings, you should "burn"=20 >your hivetool in the smoker for a few seconds between hives.=20 > >Tere > >If you feel burning your hive tool will help than burn it. Beekeeping is all about doing something you like. If you want to do everything that people tell you about beekeeping and carry everything out that you hear or read then you may not have much time to do anything else.=20 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 18:06:32 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Garry Libby Subject: Re: irradiation of hives Hello All, Do the hive bodies have to be empty of wax before being irradiated?The Worcester County(MA)Beekeepers are irradiating next month,and I was considering having some hives that were given to Me done, just to be absolutely sure. Thanks, Garry Libby Boston,USA LibBEE@msn.com if con is the opposite of pro, is congress the opposite of progress? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 09:23:13 -0800 Reply-To: mister-t@clinic.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Resistant Varroa Mites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Murray, An exceptional post. What little I have heard matches your supposition. It was not mis-use of Apistan that has caused mite resistance but the use of MAVRIK by commercial beekeepers who wanted to do it on the cheap. It would be difficult to prove but makes sense based on the spread of info on MAVRIK on the net and elsewhere. Bill Truesdell Bath. ME Murray McGregor wrote: (in part) > Aside from this issue for the moment, I read with great interest the > various postings about the Texas vs. John Caldiera case. I noted > however, that no-one seemed to be looking at the issue behind it all: > the use of MAVRIK. Whilst the tactics used by the authorities were, from > all reports, ridiculous and draconian, it is probably important to > discover why they wanted to take this action. We over here have not > heard enough about the case to reach a balanced conclusion. > > There will probably be some who will jump in here and say it was just to > protect vested interests, but it could just be that they were aware of > the situation which had built up in Europe through the use of > innaccurate fluvalinate dosing using home made MAVRIK treatments. It is > strongly implicated in resistance development where undertreatment has > occurred and high residue levels in wax where overdosed. It is certainly > cheap, but you could be borrowing from your future to save a bit now, as > it will possibly shorten the useful life of fluvalinate as a varroa > control measure. It will be interesting over the coming seasons to see > where the genuinely resistant mites first appear in North America and > see if it is a high MAVRIK use area. Of course, you live in a free > country over there and education, not litigation, should have been the > approach. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 09:44:25 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Apistan resistance, Mavrik and fat asses! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Varroa Resistance to Fluvalinate in Florida: The latest (Feb?) issue of American Bee Journal contains an article documenting fluvalinate resistance in Varroa mites in Florida. V-mites in infested hives treated with Apistan strips survived the treatments with no effect. Increased dosages (I believe up to 8 strips per hive) had no effect. The VERY SAME STRIPS that did not knock the mites down in hives in Florida were then taken to hives in other geographic areas of the US (Arizona and elsewhere) and killed the mites in hives there. Other treatments (Amitraz, among others) used in the original Florida hives were lethal to the V-mites. In short, a fluvalinate resistant strain of Varroa has been documented in Florida. With the migratory season already underway, the future of Apistan as an effective treatment is limited (as if this is new news). Coming to a neighborhood near you.... Regarding Mavrik discussions on BEE-L, the flames roared mightily - I may have lit a match myself. Checking the archives I see the first warning came in Tom Sanford's APIS newsletter (April '92) and discussion really heated up on BEE-L in '96. Postings are numerous, the gist of which go along the lines of "Unsanctioned, untested, no controls for proper dosage, leads to the demise of Apistan, don't use it, etc, etc." That Mavrik will kill mites is not disputed. That Mavrik is for mavericks also seems pretty clear. As beekeepers, we will all draw our own conclusions - some will draw more than one ;) It is evident that the days for the single registered treatment for Varroa mites in the US are drawing to an end. The time is NOW to lobby for more weapons in the beekeeping arsenal to battle Varroa. Whether it's formic acid or FGMO or Mite solution or Mavrik or Mitacure or oils of essence or ApilifeVar or Amitraz or the kitchen sink, the REAL problem is that we as beekeepers allow our legislators in DC sit on their fat asses - hell, they're not draggin' their feet - while the clock ticks away on the only treatment we are allowed to use! If you haven't written a letter to your legislator telling them of the Varroa problem then YOU'RE part of the problem! I don't like to read politics on this list, but the few posts of the past few days urging political action to address this problem are right on! If we don't speak up, Washington won't listen. Aaron Morris - being more political than I want to be! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 11:17:13 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: George W Imirie Subject: Re: irradiation of hives Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Irradiation is just the same as getting your chest X-rayed. There is no heat, so the hive can be irradiated "in total" irregardless of what is inside. HOWEVER, the RULES of each state may VARY depending on the location of the radiation source. They may not like honey dripped all over there "polished floor" or propolis smeared on a nice table top; so check with your radiation source ahead of time as to just what they will radiate and what not. I hope you will e-mail me back and tell me about your experience, because irradiation is the way to beat AFB in the future so we don't have to burn. George Imirie ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 11:39:04 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Irradiation of hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT George Imirie wrote: "Irradiation is just the same as getting your chest X-rayed. There is no heat, so the hive can be irradiated "in total" irregardless of what is inside." This is contrary to my understanding. I recall reading (and my recollection has been flawed in the past) in ABJ an article from the Worcester County Beekeepers Association (I forget the specific author) describing their program. All equipment is require to be free of honey, as the irradiation causes the honey to boil. WCBA uses the facilities at the Worcester Medical College (University?). All equipment is wrapped in garbage bags, packed in cardboard cartons and loaded in rail cars which go into the treatment facility. I think the number of RADS are SIGNIFICANTLY higher than an X-ray, but again I claim no expertise. Treating equipment is a service that WCBA contracts from the Mediacl college and a service they extend to nonmembers - they just put out a call for anyone interested in their January newsletter, which unfortunately I don't have in my office right now. Irradiation is clinically proven to be 100% effective against AFB and is a financially sound alternative to burning (if available, close by). However, irradiation is not sanctioned in some states. Worcester is about a 4 hour drive from my home but New York State doesn't sanction the treatment. The laws in my state don't even allow me to move infected equipment out of the apiary, let alone across state boundaries. More fat assed buracracy, but at least it ain't Texas! ;) Aaron Morris - thinking I'd NEVER do anything that's not sanctioned!!! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 09:59:49 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: Apistan resistance, Mavrik and fat asses! In-Reply-To: <980210.094755.EST.SYSAM@cnsibm.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:44 AM 2/10/98 -0500, you wrote: >Varroa Resistance to Fluvalinate in Florida: Hi Bee Friends, Several important details are missing in these reports as reviewed here. One, which of the Varroa mites are they working with? Asian, or European? It would be nice to know of the other environmental conditions in the different bee yards tested. There is a world of difference between rearing insect's and bees in Florida and Arizona because of environmental differences. My guess would be that a good extra heavy smoking of bees in Arizona would have a much grater effect on the vampire mites in Arizona and little effect on the same mites in Florida because of these differences. Also some reliable sources report that those who are lucky enough to have some of the original strips are not having the problem in controlling mites in Florida which would indicate some product or application change?? The last time I checked strips with other chemicals that do work on varroa were still available for use on other domestic and farm animals other then bees. (not registered or permitted for honeybees} I do not know of anyone using them because I do not know anyone having a problem with Varroa in this area and all seem to be satisfied with using and re-using their foofoo strips. And yes tens of thousands of hives that have been in Florida and Texas are right now being placed in the Almond Orchards in California. When all, maybe 800-900,000 hives are in place if you could line them up down the freeway back to front there would be no reason to have a white line between Bakersfield and Mt. Shasta in northern California. This action by a few hundred beekeepers in moving bees into a relitive small area is one of the wonders of the world of agriculture and the greatest consternation of honeybees anyplace in the world. Its all mind bogging when you think it all happens without any government direction and little government interference because of the billion dollar $$US value of the crop to California agriculture. These bee hives could be carrying the black plague and no one in government would interfere with the movement. (Maybe they would burn em all later after the almonds were finished blooming.) For sure if one of those hives would pass wind it would not take long for the total to know about it and this is what Bailey and others were warning us about many years ago, too many bees in one area is a prescription for disaster. The same for one of those TEX-MEX drones with presidential aspirations could impregnate one of or very desirable California virgins in the shade of some almond tree and no one would be the wiser until some zealous bee cop did a DNA test on the little son's of bee's. Back to the real world, California is in the greenest green season ever experienced up to this date by the beekeepers now in the field. Because of the wet ground conditions beekeepers are spending much time pulling their trucks out of the mud, but bee movement is in full speed ahead because the first almond blooms are out and the growers are getting anxious. I have never seen a season that it did not dry off before full bloom but no one want's to wait as only the smartest growers get their bees in place before the winter rains come. Beekeepers are also busy adding feed to their hives which sure makes them look good to the almond grower because the spread out when working sugar or nectar and the hives look fuller. The condition of the bees appears normal, with hives that had good fall pasture looking better then those who did not.(DA) Prospects for that big ben busting Sage Honey crop are rated at 100% right now when it raining. Bee Breeders are preparing for their first queen grafts and expect good demand for queens and nucs and have the orders to prove it. ttul, the OLd Drone (Void where prohibited by common sense) (c)Permission is given to copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 13:33:48 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Iannuzzi Subject: V-mite and T-mite Single Treatment??? In-Reply-To: <980210.094755.EST.SYSAM@cnsibm.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII This message is really for Pedro in Va. Beach. I was talking to Dr. Hachiro Shimanuki of the Beltsville Bee Lab, last night (mon9feb981945) at local bee meeting where he was principal speaker. I asked Shim specifically: Can I use mineral oil to treat BOTH tracheal mite and Varroa mite [I've been using vegetable oil to treat for T-mite ever since its appearance in Maryland-- at least 10 years ago and Apistan strips for V-mite.] Replied Shim: I dunno. The jury is out on that one. Don't throw away your Apistan strips yet. For your information. Hey, unless I misread your post, you have been using M ineral G rade O il to treat both pests for a year and a half??? Yes, I do recall that Miticur used to be available, years ago, for that dual purpose. Muchas gracias. **John Iannuzzi, Ph.D. **38 years in apiculture **12 hives of Italian honeybees **At Historic Ellicott City, Maryland, 21042, U.S.A. (10 miles west of Baltimore, Maryland) [9772 Old Annapolis Rd - 410 730 5279] **"Forsooth there is some good in things evil For bees extract sweetness from the weed" -- Bard of Avon **Website: http://www.xmetric.com/honey **Email: jiannuzz@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us [1jan981031est] ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 20:06:56 +0100 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "K. Bokhorst" Subject: Re: Arizona pollen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ---------- > > > Aloha from Hawaii > What are you accustomed to paying for your pollen? What are your > specifications for handeling.? What are your terms of payment? Hawaii is > mite free and our hives are never in contact with miteacides. We feel that > we produce some of the puriest and cleanest bee hive products on earth. > Hope to hear from you soon. > > Walter > > >Hello Walter, 'Groeten' from the Netherlands Thanks for your reaction. However, I do need pollen special from Arizona. A customer of mine has pollen tablets coming from AZ for 15 years already. They told their customers that those pollen are wonderfull. No air pollution etc,etc. Just a gimmick of course,but nevertheless. They are prepared to buy their tablets from me provided I use AZ pollen. I succeeded in obtaining them already (thanks to the list.) But to answer your other question: I normaly use Spanish pollen. and I pay approximately $ 8 / kg for 50 kg lots In AZ they wanted to charge me nearly the double of that but I do have information that the normal price is $ 5 / lbs postpaid. Karel Bokhorst Dutch beekeeper with 7 hives. Bisides that I am a producer of beehive products. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 15:03:46 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Faith Andrews Bedford Subject: Re: New Bee Card Game Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I may be a bit late but I'd love a sample of your card game. I'm always looking for new bee-type presents to give . Faith Andrews Bedford ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 15:47:59 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: The Bee Works Subject: Re: Releasing a queen prematurely In-Reply-To: <34DEB84B.78E3@javanet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 9 Feb 98 at 8:03, Richard Bonney wrote: > >there was one which showed a rather mature queen. She backed out > >of her cell and disappeared down into the colony. > > Do you make anything of her backing out rather than emerging > normally? There is nothing sinister in her backing out. I have watched a number of queens emerge over the years. While they all emerge head first, her first action seems to be turn round and go back in head first. It might be an automatic reaction, as in worker bees to clean the cell, or a desire to feed on the remaining royal jelly. The latter I would suggest as newly emerged queens don't appear to excite the workers into feeding her for a couple of days. ******************************************* The Bee Works, 9 Progress Dr, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1 Phone/fax 705-326-7171 David Eyre, Owner. http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks e-mail ******************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 17:57:10 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Juan Manuel Reil Subject: Re: vegetal edible oil Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII IS SOMEBODY USING VEGETAL OIL TO CONTROLLING MITES ?. ARE YOU USING VEGETAL OIL TO CONTROLLING T_MITE, V_MITE OR BOTH OF THEM ? HOW?. THANK YOU. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 12:38:28 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Iannuzzi Subject: Re: Apistan resistance, Mavrik and fat asses! In-Reply-To: <980210.094755.EST.SYSAM@cnsibm.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Aaron, your point is well taken. I couldn't understand the reference to in the subject line until I was forced to read the WHOLE message. Tenez la foi! **John Iannuzzi, Ph.D. **38 years in apiculture **12 hives of Italian honeybees **At Historic Ellicott City, Maryland, 21042, U.S.A. (10 miles west of Baltimore, Maryland) [9772 Old Annapolis Rd - 410 730 5279] **"Forsooth there is some good in things evil For bees extract sweetness from the weed" -- Bard of Avon **Website: http://www.xmetric.com/honey **Email: jiannuzz@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us [1jan981031est] ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 12:12:34 -0800 Reply-To: Roy Nettlebeck Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: Effect or mineral oil on larva Comments: To: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" In-Reply-To: <34DE34D4.9380207D@norfolk.infi.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > In approximately 1 1/2 years of continued use of mineral oil in my hives, > I have not noticed any effect on the larvae. The oil, as I apply it, does not > affect the larvae. Hi Pedro and All, What tests were performed to proove out the vialibility of the larva after the mineral oil was applied? Larva-Bee count with contol hives? I have no dought about FGMO killing Varroa.We can kill varroa with many different means. A fine mist of oil was used years ago to kill the mites.It killed the mites and some bees along with it because the application did not have a standard.Over the last year we have had beekeepers here in Washington State , using spray bottles and killing all of there bees. A little bit of information is inherently dangerous in the hands of beekeepers.Carefully applied , means different things to different people. Its like, not much. I applaud the time and energy that Dr.Rodriguez has put into the use of FGMO.He is like many others , working to solve the mite problem.We may be getting closer to a strain of bee that will need nothing but themselves to control the mite. In the mean time, we need to keep our eyes wide open and think about what we put into the beehive. Case in point. Here in Washington State , we have a gentleman that has sold a product called Mite Solution.He has sold a lot of it to big commerical beekeepers.He has been fined $3,780 by the EPA.( ABJ page 18-1998 )The claim of the product was, it is all food grade.He did not register with the EPA. He was told to stop selling the product in May of 1995.A good friend of mine has used it and had no problems with it that he could tell.He had no mites after the use of the product. If it was so good , why didn't he register it with the EPA and save himself $3,000 .Something is wrong with the picture. Take small steps and review all the data before you use anything on the bees.I'm not saying that FGMO is not a fix for the mites.It needs peer review of the tests conducted. Best Regards and Happy Beekeeping to All Roy > People are assuming things about the method used for mineral that are not > there. If my instructions for the procedure are followed, there will not be > any excess oil to affect the bees, the honey, the larvae or the wax. > Please remember that I am doing this work because I love bees! I don't > wish for any thing wrong to happen to my bees or any other person's bees. Also > please remember, that I am not doing this type of work for a salary, that my > work is strictly non profit. The only benefit that may be derived from this > study is strictly for the well being of beekeeping. > In summary, I have found that carefully applied mineral oil is an > excellent form of bee mites control without deleterious effects on the colony > and its contents. After continued used of mineral oil, laboratory tests should > be performed to determine if in effect mineral oil has an influence on bees > wax. As I speak, I have not noticed any harmful (or otherwise) effect on the > combs or wax that I have rendered. > Best regards. > Dr. Rodriguez > Virginia Beach, VA > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 21:10:46 -0800 Reply-To: mister-t@clinic.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: AFB MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Tere, I was taught the same thing by a beekeeper who inspected many hives for others. He did not "burn" the hive tool between hives but between apiaries. But if you suspect AFB, then what you say is requried, even in the same apiary. Otherwise you are the one that can spread AFB. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME. Teresa Garcma wrote: > John Partin, > > I don4t have probems with EFB or AFB, but I was told long ago, that if > you suspect there4s a disease in the surroundings, you should "burn" > your hivetool in the smoker for a few seconds between hives. > > Tere ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 20:44:06 -0500 Reply-To: mpalmer@together.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Michael Palmer Organization: French Hill Apiaries Subject: Re: Resistant Varroa Mites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tom, I admire your enthusiasm. Over the years, I'm sure I've lost some of that majical energy that folks newly bitten by the beekeeping bug possess. Although I agree with you and the good doctor Pedro, I think you fail to understand the real problem. Number one, we OLD beekeepers, (49 is old already?) have faced muchos problemas. It seems every year brings them on in ever changing form. Some are easily solved, while some take hard physical and mental work. We've learned that shortcuts usually lead to cul de sac's. So when someone comes along and says, "all you gotta do is," bells and whistles and whizzers and zingers go off in our heads. It's not that we're not open to new ideas. It's just that we've seen too many new ideas come and go. Too many "all you gotta do's" blowing in the wind. Number two, many of us have invested everything we have in this occupation. We have to go with what we know to work. We can't run the perfect operations so many new to this dream about. We can't throw fistfulls of money at a problem. We can't take chances. We can't risk our family's future on an "all you gotta do." I applaud all you beginners and back lotters. I applaud the doctor. At this time you are the ones that may help us through this. I hope-no I pray that this may be so. Please don't forget that without the wizdom of the "old ones" all youz ones wouldn't have what you do! Mike Computer Software Solutions Ltd wrote: > Hi All > > This posting is NOT solely about Resistant Varroa Mites, so please read it, > even if you have had almost too many postings on this subject. > > It seems to me, that with the emergence of resistant mites, that DR > Rodriguez case for using non chemical treatments has been largely vindicated > and possibly fully proved. It also seems to me, that there are two kinds of > beekeepers. One is the older variety in terms of years spent with bees. I am > of the opinion that these beekeepers are not too open to new ideas. The > other variety, like myself, is the newer beekeeper, who is more open to new > ideas, since every idea to us is a new idea. Like all activities carried out > in this technological age, beekeeping is better for a technological approach > which is environmentally benign. I have plans to put Dr Rodriguez system > into operation as soon as I can. > > It is now largely held, that chemical means of treating problems have had > some unwanted side effects. My understanding of what the Doctor is > advocating, is a mechanical treatment for the varroa and other mites, > whereby you just kill them as it were mechanically, and the killing leaves > no trace in the hive and hence in the environment. It is rather like the > difference between swatting flies and treating them with DDT, and we all > know what the DDT did. Rachel Carson's chilling book, Silent Spring, which > though thankfully did not happen with the force which she postulated, did > happen to some extent. > > Dr Rodriguez, I am but a recent comer to beekeeping and I would like to > contribute a small sum to defray some of your expenses. An offer of this > sort has already been made by other contributors. I would again ask the > contributors to BEE-L (as did the other contributors), to support Dr > Rodriguez in the work he is doing both for bees and the environment, and > hence for us all. > > Could the good Doctor indicate to us where funds should be sent, and I am > sure that we will not be found wanting. After all, think of the amount of > valuable information (some of which possibly led to better beekeeping and > hence more profit), which we have received from BEE-L free of charge, much > of which has been contributed by Dr Rodriguez. I also think of how many > books I would have to buy to obtain the information that I have received > from BEE-L. It would come to a tidy sum. And I cannot get from a book, the > personalised answers to specific questions, which I have received from BEE-L. > > Thanks to one and all for the time spent in reading this posting. > > Sincerely > Tom Barrett > 49 South Park > Foxrock > Dublin 18 > Ireland > > e mail cssl@iol.ie > Tel + 353 1 289 5269 > Fax + 353 1 289 9940 > > Latitude 53 Deg 16' 12.8" North > Longitude 06 Deg 9' 44.9" West ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 21:47:49 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Garry Libby Subject: Re: "Mite Solution" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0023_01BD366D.87E04900" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01BD366D.87E04900 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello All, =20 Roy Nettlebeck wrote: .. " Here in Washington State , we have a gentleman = that has sold a product called Mite Solution.He has sold a lot of it to big commerical beekeepers.He has been fined $3,780 by the EPA.( ABJ page 18-1998 )The claim of the product was, it is all food grade.He did not register with the EPA. He was told to stop selling the product in May of 1995.A good friend of mine has used it and had no problems with it that = he could tell.".... I tried "Mite Solution" in 1996,My first year = keeping bees.I followed directions to the letter,and by mid August My = two hives were both full of varroa mites. I put in Apistan strips,and was able to save My bees.Has anyone else = tried that product?Has Your experience been good or bad?That product was = costly,it cost $18.00 for a one ounce package that resembled vasoline.I = plan on trying F.G.M.O. this coming spring(after first using Apistan in = the latter part of March).I am hoping that the Mineral oil does the = trick.And Dr.Rodrigues,You can count on My support,once there is some = more info as to where contributions may be sent. Garry Libby Boston,USA LibBEE@email.msn.com if con is the opposite of pro, is congress the opposite of progress? =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01BD366D.87E04900 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello All, 
         =  
          Roy = Nettlebeck=20 wrote: 
 
          =20 ..         "  Here in=20 Washington State , we have a gentleman that has
sold a product called = Mite=20 Solution.He has sold a lot of it to big
commerical beekeepers.He has = been=20 fined $3,780 by the EPA.( ABJ page
18-1998 )The claim of the product = was, it=20 is all food grade.He did not
register with the EPA. He was told to = stop=20 selling the product in May of
1995.A good friend of mine has used it = and had=20 no problems with it that he
could = tell.".... 
 
          &nbs= p;        =20 I tried "Mite Solution" in 1996,My first year keeping bees.I = followed=20 directions to the letter,and by mid August My two hives were both full = of varroa=20 mites.
I put in = Apistan strips,and=20 was able to save My bees.Has anyone else tried that product?Has Your = experience=20 been good or bad?That product was costly,it cost $18.00 for a one ounce = package=20 that resembled vasoline.I plan on trying F.G.M.O. this coming = spring(after first=20 using Apistan in the latter part of March).I am hoping that the Mineral = oil does=20 the trick.And Dr.Rodrigues,You can count on My support,once there is = some more=20 info as to where contributions may be sent.
 

Garry=20 Libby
Boston,USA
LibBEE@email.msn.com
if con = is the=20 opposite of pro,
is congress the opposite of progress?  =20  
------=_NextPart_000_0023_01BD366D.87E04900-- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 22:28:35 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Iannuzzi Subject: Re: vegetal edible oil In-Reply-To: <032565A7.00720BB5.00@famarnotesba.famar.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII ***Yes, I've used vegetable oil for T-mite control for many years. ***Place a paper towel, saturated with vegetable oil, between the ***two broodchambers BEFORE the supers go on and AFTER they come ***off. The bees chew up the paper and cast it out and in so doing ***get the oil all over their bodies, thus preventing mite transference. ***I use Apistan strips to control the V-mite; however, Pedro Rodriguez ***in Virginia Beach writes that he used Mineral Grade Oil for controlling ***both. I sent him email to verify this but have yet to get a response. >On Tue, 10 Feb 1998, Juan Manuel Reil wrote: >IS SOMEBODY USING VEGETAL OIL TO CONTROLLING MITES ?. > ARE YOU USING VEGETAL OIL TO CONTROLLING T_MITE, V_MITE OR BOTH OF THEM > ? > HOW?. > THANK YOU. **John Iannuzzi, Ph.D. **38 years in apiculture **12 hives of Italian honeybees **At Historic Ellicott City, Maryland, 21042, U.S.A. (10 miles west of Baltimore, Maryland) [9772 Old Annapolis Rd - 410 730 5279] **"Forsooth there is some good in things evil For bees extract sweetness from the weed" -- Bard of Avon **Website: http://www.xmetric.com/honey **Email: jiannuzz@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us [1jan981031est] ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 22:30:37 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Nick The Beeman Subject: Re: New Bee Card Game Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-02-10 15:05:41 EST, you write: << I may be a bit late but I'd love a sample of your card game. I'm always looking for new bee-type presents to give . >> Yes where can i get them? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 22:47:39 -0500 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" Organization: Independent non-profit research Subject: Re: Effect or mineral oil on larva MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Roy and all.. I am 69 years old and a 4th generation beekeeper. By age ten, I owned and worked 30 multiple chambered hives. Every summer, I paid my college tuition selling honey. I have kept bees all my life any place I went. Honey bees are is the number two love of my life, my number one is my wife! Needless to say, I rank honey bees pretty high in my scale of values. Modesty aside, I can claim that I know honey bees well, not just because I kept bees as long as I have but because I have dedicated a good portion of my life to their study. My studies have given me the ability to differentiate the normal from the abnormal, which as I remember from my first readings in pathology, is the basic ingredient for identifying pathology, or deviations from the normal. One of the parameters of my testing has been to observe, identify and record harmful effects of FGMO, should there be any. I have not observed harmful effects of FGMO on larval stages in the colonies that I have tested with FGMO. This statistic is as valid as that when I have reported that excessive amounts of FGMO will kill adult bees. Unfortunately, it does and I have taken explicit care to indicate that it does and to explain the mechanism why it happens. I do not blame beekeepers and other people in the business to doubt the claims of a stranger when so much is at stake. I understand the reasons for skepticism. I understand that producers have to prove their wares before they are accepted. How are discoveries, inventions, modifications to existing technology proven? My answer is that responsible producers and promoters of innovations will stand the tests to which these are submitted by independent "testers." As I understand there are several independent individuals (I am not one of those) who have been granted financial support by institutions to test the effects of FGMO on honey bees. I continue my testing program with the guarantee that it is open to scrutiny by any individual interested in knowing about it and that I shall continue to announce my findings promptly to the international community for the benefit of all. This year's phase of study involves "fine tuning" application of FGMO in a cost effective mode for commercial beekeepers. Of course, this application will be useful to each and every beekeeper (large or small) who may wish to apply it. In addition, I will be working with as many individuals who may wish to participate in an attempt to utilize standard techniques. More to come on this phase as events unfold. I am very much aware that it is natural and normal to fear the unknown, and especially so when there are financial values involved and much more if sentimental and moral values are added to this collective scenario. Hence, I do not blame any person who is not willing to risk his business trying unsubstantiated claims, especially coming from an unknown individual as is my case and FGMO. But facts do not lie. Facts are palpable and must stand the test of public scrutiny. That is the reason why I continue to reveal my work and the results of my tests. I am fully confident that other investigators will be able to duplicate my tests and make known their findings in a near future. When that happens beekeeping and humanity will have the opportunity to defeat the terrible plague that bee mites constitute. In the meantime I would like to paraphrase what someone else wrote regarding this very same subject: "don't kill the messenger." Best regards. Dr. Rodriguez Virginia Beach, VA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 01:15:01 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Thomas W. Hoyt" Subject: Honey Bee Suppliers? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Today I remembered to order some bees for next year. I usually order through Walter T. Kelly (Kentucky - USA) - but they are "booked until shipping dates in May". I did order four (3#) packages - - but if I could find a supplier with an earlier shipping date I would probably order a few more boxes. Anybody know who has been available - maybe late March? I'm in the middle of Illinois. Thomas W. Hoyt Decatur, IL (217) 864-5644 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 05:02:14 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: bee & beekeeper brains Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" For comparison Bee Beekeeper Rat Brain weight 0.001g 1400g 2g Brain%of Body 5 (by vol.) 2 (by weight) .5 (by weight) Total Neurons 1 million 100 billion 150 million Note that the neurons are much smaller in the bee brain than in mammal brains. We sometimes tend to think of evolution having proceeded in humans in the direction of bigger brains. Evolution in computer and chip technology has been in increasing miniaturization. The bee brain is an amazingly highly evolved "neural net". A bee can "learn" a maze in only 6 times longer than a rat. The rat has 150 times as many neurons. This beekeeper keeps losing his hive tool. If you look at the threshold detection concentration of about 30 different compounds (I'm talking smell here) (I also can't remember where I saw the study--neuron death I guess) you find that bees are better than humans in some, and worse in others. Overall one might say that the sense of smell in humans and bees is roughly equivalent. But we have about 40 million olfactory detectors in a great big schnoz and the bee has one thousandth the number of detectors on two antennae the size of two big nose hairs! By the way, drones have a better sense of smell than workers. If you think about the brain as a kind of computer then instincts must be like little programs that run from a particular set of cues. Since the bee goes through a lot of different tasks in her lifetime these programs must be "written" extremely efficiently in her tiny brain. My first computer was a timex-sinclair. It had 2k of ram, but I had an extra rampack that boosted it 16k I think. I had a chess program for it, and I think it played almost as good a game as some programs that run on machines now with 1000 times the ram. (But it was slow, and it had to turn the monitor off so it could "think" :-) The bee gets around have a slow "central processing unit" by routing a lot of input from senses right to reflexes. Notice how a bee that lost her head keeps walking around, or how a sting keeps working. The reflex response time in some bee reflexes is much faster than ours. Have a neurally stimulating day Stan ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 00:50:24 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Alden P. Marshall" Subject: Re: Pollen traps and supersedure Alden Marshall B-Line Apiaries Hudson, NH 03051 Busybee9@Juno.com tel. 603-883-6764 On Tue, 10 Feb 1998 08:14:08 -0600 "Excerpts from BEE-L" writes: >Reply-to: Discussion of Bee Biology >From: Andy Nachbaur > >>you >>dry the pollen? > >> Yes indeed, I have a vented solar drier that works very well. It >>will hold three 1.5' x 2.5' screen bottom trays. It takes about 1 >sunny >>day to dry the pollen to pass the pinch test (if pollen pellets >pinched >>together do not adhere dry enough), real scientific huh? Pollen keeps >for >>months in tightly sealed jars without molding. Pellets are not so dry >>that a hard pinch can't crumble them. > >Maybe I don't believe bee pollen is God's gift of food to man but I do >know >from personal commercial experience producing pollen and working with >others who had commercial interests in marketing pollen a tad about >how it >can be done commercially so that the pollen is acceptable to the bulk >pollen buyer and the consuming public. > >First let me say that IMHO most who dry pollen are not selling a >natural >product as even the bees would have a hard time when its that hard and >much >of the food value for bees would be destroyed in just a few hours of >sun or >heating. I agree that if you live in an area of high moisture you >must >take steps to preserve and protect the pollen from moisture most do >this in >the construction of the trap itself, but at the same time cooked >pollen is >like cooked honey and may have much local value to a large number of >local >producers but certainly would not have much food value left after >cooking >off those magic ingredients that are already in such minute quantizes >in >natural fresh frozen pollen that so many seek in promoting pollen for >human >consumption as an natural organic food supplement in the major >marketing >streams. > >> I clean my pollen whereas most who freeze instead of dry do not. I >defy >anyone who does not dry >pollen to do a descent job of cleaning in any >reasonable period of time. Of course >>there are arguments for and against both freezing and drying. The few >I >know in this area who trap >freeze it. > >Again lets not paint everyone with the same brush, I have never had to >dry >pollen and I have never known a commercial pollen producer who dried >pollen > Well, I am refering to the ones who fit the shoe. I believe it is possible to use a solar drier to dry pollen without cooking it. The temp in the vented drier rarely exceeds 110F and the pollen is never exposed to the sunlight, touchet with the paint brush :-), you are of course correct. I see some of this frozen stuff that has never been cleaned and - well I have to look at most of the stuff I eat and I'm just not psyched up for bee part protien and brood capings. The trap drawers do have screen vents to keep moisture to a minimum but I have never been able to keep it from fermenting without drying. Sometimes it is so moist it all burt dumps out in a lump. A few hours in the drier and the pellets are all loose again. I do have to freeze it after drying because wax moth eggs are still viable. >but I only know a few of those in the southwest, Arizona, Colorado, >and >California and none had a moisture problem. The two pollen cleaning >machines I used left little for the sorters to hand pick out. I have >no >idea what would cause anyone to believe that those who produce pollen >in >the dry southwest or the desert areas would have any interest in >drying I like to think of my drying as replicating these southwest conditions. If nothing else discussion causes one to be more specific. Thanks for the comments. >pollen or be less likely to do a good job cleaning their pollen before >sale >then any other beekeeper trying to do a good job in preparing his >pollen >for market, this just has not been my own experience working with >other >pollen producers. > >I only write this so that maybe others will figure out that there is >more >then one way to produce good high quality pollen. Fresh frozen pollen >can >be used in more ways then cooked or dried pollen which is important if >you >sell it in bulk and just maybe we should remember there are others >doing >the same good job we are doing using a different method but doing a >equally >good job. I even had an interest in a pill press and the pollen could >not >be as moisture free as dried pollen described above or it would not >bind >into a solid pill without adding a binder. > >ttul, the OLd Drone > >* This message certified 100% tagline free. > >(c)Permission is given to copy this document >in any form, or to print for any use. > >(w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 09:17:15 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Iannuzzi Subject: Re: Honey Bee Suppliers? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII At the risk of stressing the obvious, I just counted more than 15 queen/bee suppliers in the Dec 1997 issue of ABJ, stretching from GA to CA to HA. Have U tried them all? I always had my ordered bees arrive the first week of April, or else I wouldn't order at all unless desperate. Bonne chance! On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Thomas W. Hoyt wrote: > Today I remembered to order some bees for next year. I usually order through > Walter T. Kelly (Kentucky - USA) - but they are "booked until shipping dates > in May". > > I did order four (3#) packages - - but if I could find a supplier with an > earlier shipping date I would probably order a few more boxes. > > Anybody know who has been available - maybe late March? > > I'm in the middle of Illinois. > > Thomas W. Hoyt > Decatur, IL > (217) 864-5644 > **John Iannuzzi, Ph.D. **38 years in apiculture **12 hives of Italian honeybees **At Historic Ellicott City, Maryland, 21042, U.S.A. (10 miles west of Baltimore, Maryland) [9772 Old Annapolis Rd - 410 730 5279] **"Forsooth there is some good in things evil For bees extract sweetness from the weed" -- Bard of Avon **Website: http://www.xmetric.com/honey **Email: jiannuzz@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us [1jan981031est] ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 09:58:10 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Al Needham Subject: Neurons or Morons ? Total Neurons Bee=1 million Beekeeper=100 billion Rat=150 million The jury is still out on who will be the last survivor on this planet we, the one above with the largest quantity of neurons, are rapidly destroying. My bet is on one critter not mentioned - the lowly cockroach. I think he/she has been here much longer than the above. Wonder how many neurons he/she has ? Or is it " morons" ? :-) Al, <"Mailto: awneedham@juno.com" > Scituate,Massachusetts,USA The Beehive-Educational Honey Bee Site Visit Ye Olde Honey Bee Book Shoppe http://www.xensei.com/users/alwine _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 09:06:58 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: aarcher Subject: One didn't make it. ID help please. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01BD36CC.67EAA0A0" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BD36CC.67EAA0A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit One of my 2 hives didn't make it through the winter. I'm trying to find out what went wrong, and would appreciate any input. The colony was very strong at the end of the year, and I was careful to leave them with plenty of stores (honey and pollen) to get through the cold weather here in the higher elevations of New Mexico. When I opened the hive in beautiful weather yesterday I observed the following: Almost one full brood box (the upper box) full of honey and pollen remained 50-100 bees died apparently in the process of removing or moving honey. (heads still stuck down into the cells as if feeding or storing). Bodies black and dry. Heads of what appear to be normally formed bees are emerging from cells in the brood area. (looks as though the hive and many of it's occupants died suddenly while going about their every day chores and duties). Bodies of a couple of hundred bees on bottom board (not thousands as I might have expected from this booming hive if a sudden catastrophe had occurred). Queen not visible or included in body count. Swarm or supercedure cells along the bottoms of many of the frames (I would guess they were pretty much at the same stage of development.) Several combs in the lower box were damaged. (combs appeared to have been "chewed on" almost down to the foundation in places . (there were a few - very few though - mouse droppings I believe, just inside the entrance to the hive. The brood areas of several combs had large amounts of what appears to be small grains of an unidentified white substance. (dead brood / crystallized uncapped honey or ?). I checked my second hive, and although the population was very low, I located the queen and the hive had at least survived. The only observation I had on this survivor hive which gives me concern and which I am seeking comments on: There were many of the above mentioned white grains in the 'empty' cells in the brood area. I noticed a clear liquid mixed in with some of the white grains of unknown matter on "some but not all" of the brood combs. (I did a taste test on both the comb with the white grains and a second test on the cells with the white grains and the liquid. I could not tell any difference between the flavor of uncapped honey and either of the two tested substances. Also the bees that were alive in survivor hive (#2), had lost a great deal of their Italian color (not much yellow left). I don't know what I'm dealing with, and am going to send a sample of brood comb from both hives to the bee lab in Maryland. In the meantime, I'd like to find and order a single replacement package. Your help and expertise (and suggestions) would be appreciated. (including where I can get a solo package at reasonable cost at this time). By the way, the bee hive that is no more, was installed in my standard Lang hive; the survivor was installed in a home built TBH. Still find the TBH preferable to work with (I have a bit of a bad back too). Thanks in advance for your response. You may post to the group or email me directly. ------=_NextPart_000_01BD36CC.67EAA0A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


One of my 2 hives didn't make it = through the winter.  I'm trying to find out what went wrong, and = would appreciate any input.

The colony was very strong at the end = of the year, and I was careful to leave them with plenty of stores = (honey and pollen) to get through the cold weather here in the higher = elevations of New Mexico.

When I opened the hive in beautiful = weather yesterday I observed the following:
=        Almost one full brood box (the = upper box) full of honey and pollen remained
=        50-100  bees died = apparently in the process of removing or moving honey.  (heads = still stuck down into the cells as if feeding or storing).  Bodies = black and dry.  
=        Heads of what appear to be = normally formed bees are emerging from cells in the brood area. =  (looks as though the hive and many of it's occupants died suddenly = while going about their every day chores and duties).
=        Bodies of a couple of hundred = bees on bottom board (not thousands as I might have expected from this = booming hive if a sudden catastrophe had occurred).  Queen not = visible or included in body count.
=         Swarm or supercedure = cells along the bottoms of many of the frames (I would guess they were = pretty much at the same stage of development.)
=         Several combs in the = lower box were damaged. (combs appeared to have been "chewed = on" almost down to the foundation in places .  (there were a = few - very few though - mouse droppings I believe, just inside the = entrance to the hive.
=         The brood areas of = several combs had large amounts of what appears to be small grains of an = unidentified white substance.  (dead brood / crystallized uncapped = honey or ?).  

I checked my second hive, and although the = population was very low, I located the queen and the hive had at least = survived.  The only observation I had on this survivor hive which = gives me concern and which I am seeking comments on:
=         There were many of the = above mentioned white grains in the 'empty' cells in the brood area. =  I noticed a clear liquid mixed in with some of the white grains of = unknown matter on "some but not all" of the brood combs. =  (I did a taste test on both the comb with the white grains and a = second test on the cells with the white grains and the liquid.  I = could not tell any difference between the flavor of uncapped honey and = either of the two tested substances.
=          Also the bees that = were alive in survivor hive (#2), had lost a great deal of their Italian = color (not much yellow left).

I don't know what I'm dealing with, = and am going to send a sample of brood comb from both hives to the bee = lab in Maryland.  In the meantime, I'd like to find and order a = single replacement package.  Your help and expertise (and = suggestions)  would be appreciated.  (including where I can = get a solo package at reasonable cost at this time).

By the way, =  the bee hive that is no more, was installed in my standard Lang = hive;  the survivor was installed in a home built TBH.  Still = find the TBH preferable to work with (I have a bit of a bad back = too).

Thanks in advance for your response.  You may post to = the group or email me directly.

------=_NextPart_000_01BD36CC.67EAA0A0-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 09:37:34 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: aarcher Subject: Re: One didn't make it. ID help please. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01BD36D0.AE72D2A0" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BD36D0.AE72D2A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please excuse this message if it's received twice. Since I did not get a copy, I can only assume that the list did not either..... ---------- From: aarcher To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Subject: One didn't make it. ID help please. Date: Wednesday, February 11, 1998 9:06 AM One of my 2 hives didn't make it through the winter. I'm trying to find out what went wrong, and would appreciate any input. The colony was very strong at the end of the year, and I was careful to leave them with plenty of stores (honey and pollen) to get through the cold weather here in the higher elevations of New Mexico. When I opened the hive in beautiful weather yesterday I observed the following: Almost one full brood box (the upper box) full of honey and pollen remained 50-100 bees died apparently in the process of removing or moving honey. (heads still stuck down into the cells as if feeding or storing). Bodies black and dry. Heads of what appear to be normally formed bees are emerging from cells in the brood area. (looks as though the hive and many of it's occupants died suddenly while going about their every day chores and duties). Bodies of a couple of hundred bees on bottom board (not thousands as I might have expected from this booming hive if a sudden catastrophe had occurred). Queen not visible or included in body count. Swarm or supercedure cells along the bottoms of many of the frames (I would guess they were pretty much at the same stage of development.) Several combs in the lower box were damaged. (combs appeared to have been "chewed on" almost down to the foundation in places . (there were a few - very few though - mouse droppings I believe, just inside the entrance to the hive. The brood areas of several combs had large amounts of what appears to be small grains of an unidentified white substance. (dead brood / crystallized uncapped honey or ?). I checked my second hive, and although the population was very low, I located the queen and the hive had at least survived. The only observation I had on this survivor hive which gives me concern and which I am seeking comments on: There were many of the above mentioned white grains in the 'empty' cells in the brood area. I noticed a clear liquid mixed in with some of the white grains of unknown matter on "some but not all" of the brood combs. (I did a taste test on both the comb with the white grains and a second test on the cells with the white grains and the liquid. I could not tell any difference between the flavor of uncapped honey and either of the two tested substances. Also the bees that were alive in survivor hive (#2), had lost a great deal of their Italian color (not much yellow left). I don't know what I'm dealing with, and am going to send a sample of brood comb from both hives to the bee lab in Maryland. In the meantime, I'd like to find and order a single replacement package. Your help and expertise (and suggestions) would be appreciated. (including where I can get a solo package at reasonable cost at this time). By the way, the bee hive that is no more, was installed in my standard Lang hive; the survivor was installed in a home built TBH. Still find the TBH preferable to work with (I have a bit of a bad back too). Thanks in advance for your response. You may post to the group or email me directly. ------=_NextPart_000_01BD36D0.AE72D2A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Please excuse this message if it's = received twice.  Since I did not get a copy, I can only assume that = the list did not either.....

----------
From: aarcher = <aarcher@wnmc.net>
To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU
Subject: One didn't make it. ID help = please.
Date: Wednesday, February 11, 1998 9:06 AM


One of = my 2 hives didn't make it through the winter.  I'm trying to find = out what went wrong, and would appreciate any input.

The colony = was very strong at the end of the year, and I was careful to leave them = with plenty of stores (honey and pollen) to get through the cold weather = here in the higher elevations of New Mexico.

When I opened the = hive in beautiful weather yesterday I observed the following:
=        Almost one full brood box (the = upper box) full of honey and pollen remained
=        50-100  bees died = apparently in the process of removing or moving honey.  (heads = still stuck down into the cells as if feeding or storing).  Bodies = black and dry.  
=        Heads of what appear to be = normally formed bees are emerging from cells in the brood area. =  (looks as though the hive and many of it's occupants died suddenly = while going about their every day chores and duties).
=        Bodies of a couple of hundred = bees on bottom board (not thousands as I might have expected from this = booming hive if a sudden catastrophe had occurred).  Queen not = visible or included in body count.
=         Swarm or supercedure = cells along the bottoms of many of the frames (I would guess they were = pretty much at the same stage of development.)
=         Several combs in the = lower box were damaged. (combs appeared to have been "chewed = on" almost down to the foundation in places .  (there were a = few - very few though - mouse droppings I believe, just inside the = entrance to the hive.
=         The brood areas of = several combs had large amounts of what appears to be small grains of an = unidentified white substance.  (dead brood / crystallized uncapped = honey or ?).  

I checked my second hive, and although the = population was very low, I located the queen and the hive had at least = survived.  The only observation I had on this survivor hive which = gives me concern and which I am seeking comments on:
=         There were many of the = above mentioned white grains in the 'empty' cells in the brood area. =  I noticed a clear liquid mixed in with some of the white grains of = unknown matter on "some but not all" of the brood combs. =  (I did a taste test on both the comb with the white grains and a = second test on the cells with the white grains and the liquid.  I = could not tell any difference between the flavor of uncapped honey and = either of the two tested substances.
=          Also the bees that = were alive in survivor hive (#2), had lost a great deal of their Italian = color (not much yellow left).

I don't know what I'm dealing with, = and am going to send a sample of brood comb from both hives to the bee = lab in Maryland.  In the meantime, I'd like to find and order a = single replacement package.  Your help and expertise (and = suggestions)  would be appreciated.  (including where I can = get a solo package at reasonable cost at this time).

By the way, =  the bee hive that is no more, was installed in my standard Lang = hive;  the survivor was installed in a home built TBH.  Still = find the TBH preferable to work with (I have a bit of a bad back = too).

Thanks in advance for your response.  You may post to = the group or email me directly.

------=_NextPart_000_01BD36D0.AE72D2A0-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 11:57:44 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Re: One didn't make it. ID help please. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0058_01BD36E4.438B7BE0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0058_01BD36E4.438B7BE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Your hive loss appears to have classical varroa mite symptoms. = Sorry...but we've all had this. Two years ago an average of 75% of all = hives here in upstate NY were killed over the winter and the hives = looked just like your description. My guess is that your second hive is = also all but gone and is highly unlikely to build up enough to produce = any surplus. If you want to try to save your second hive, get Apistan on now!=20 The crazy way postal rates are set means you have to pay almost as much = to ship one package as you pay for three. Check B. Weaver for package = availability. bweaver@mail.myraid.net 409-825-7312. If you only want = one package or nuc check your beekeepers association. I have Beth = Crowder, NM State Beekeepers Association, 12 Sparrow Hawk Road, Bosque, = NM 87004. She might know someone selling nucs. In my opinion, a good 3 = or 4 frame nuc with a laying queen and two frames of brood is 3-5 weeks = ahead of a package; meaning you can get it 3-5 weeks after a package and = still be at roughly the same development stage. Good luck! -----Original Message----- From: aarcher To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Date: Wednesday, February 11, 1998 11:17 AM Subject: One didn't make it. ID help please. =20 =20 =20 One of my 2 hives didn't make it through the winter. I'm trying to = find out what went wrong, and would appreciate any input. =20 The colony was very strong at the end of the year, and I was careful = to leave them with plenty of stores (honey and pollen) to get through = the cold weather here in the higher elevations of New Mexico. =20 When I opened the hive in beautiful weather yesterday I observed the = following: Almost one full brood box (the upper box) full of honey and = pollen remained 50-100 bees died apparently in the process of removing or = moving honey. (heads still stuck down into the cells as if feeding or = storing). Bodies black and dry. =20 Heads of what appear to be normally formed bees are emerging = from cells in the brood area. (looks as though the hive and many of = it's occupants died suddenly while going about their every day chores = and duties). Bodies of a couple of hundred bees on bottom board (not = thousands as I might have expected from this booming hive if a sudden = catastrophe had occurred). Queen not visible or included in body count. Swarm or supercedure cells along the bottoms of many of the = frames (I would guess they were pretty much at the same stage of = development.) Several combs in the lower box were damaged. (combs appeared = to have been "chewed on" almost down to the foundation in places . = (there were a few - very few though - mouse droppings I believe, just = inside the entrance to the hive. The brood areas of several combs had large amounts of what = appears to be small grains of an unidentified white substance. (dead = brood / crystallized uncapped honey or ?). =20 =20 I checked my second hive, and although the population was very low, = I located the queen and the hive had at least survived. The only = observation I had on this survivor hive which gives me concern and which = I am seeking comments on: There were many of the above mentioned white grains in the = 'empty' cells in the brood area. I noticed a clear liquid mixed in with = some of the white grains of unknown matter on "some but not all" of the = brood combs. (I did a taste test on both the comb with the white grains = and a second test on the cells with the white grains and the liquid. I = could not tell any difference between the flavor of uncapped honey and = either of the two tested substances. Also the bees that were alive in survivor hive (#2), had = lost a great deal of their Italian color (not much yellow left). =20 I don't know what I'm dealing with, and am going to send a sample of = brood comb from both hives to the bee lab in Maryland. In the meantime, = I'd like to find and order a single replacement package. Your help and = expertise (and suggestions) would be appreciated. (including where I = can get a solo package at reasonable cost at this time). =20 By the way, the bee hive that is no more, was installed in my = standard Lang hive; the survivor was installed in a home built TBH. = Still find the TBH preferable to work with (I have a bit of a bad back = too). =20 Thanks in advance for your response. You may post to the group or = email me directly. =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0058_01BD36E4.438B7BE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Your hive loss appears to have = classical varroa=20 mite symptoms.  Sorry...but we've all had this.  Two years ago = an=20 average of 75% of all hives here in upstate NY were killed over the = winter and=20 the hives looked just like your description.  My guess is that your = second=20 hive is also all but gone and is highly unlikely to build up enough to = produce=20 any surplus.
 
If you want to try to save your second hive, get = Apistan on=20 now!
 
The crazy way postal rates are set means you have to = pay=20 almost as much to ship one package as you pay for three.  Check B. = Weaver=20 for package availability.  bweaver@mail.myraid.net = =20 409-825-7312.  If you only want one package or nuc check your = beekeepers=20 association.  I have Beth Crowder, NM State Beekeepers Association, = 12=20 Sparrow Hawk Road, Bosque, NM 87004.  She might know someone = selling=20 nucs.  In my opinion, a good 3 or 4 frame nuc with a laying queen = and two=20 frames of brood is 3-5 weeks ahead of a package; meaning you can get it = 3-5=20 weeks after a package and still be at roughly the same development=20 stage.
 
Good luck!
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 aarcher <aarcher@wnmc.net>
To: = BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU = <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>Date:=20 Wednesday, February 11, 1998 11:17 AM
Subject: One = didn't make=20 it. ID help please.


One of my 2 hives = didn't make=20 it through the winter.  I'm trying to find out what went wrong, = and=20 would appreciate any input.

The colony was very strong at the = end of=20 the year, and I was careful to leave them with plenty of stores = (honey and=20 pollen) to get through the cold weather here in the higher = elevations of New=20 Mexico.

When I opened the hive in beautiful weather yesterday = I=20 observed the = following:
       Almost=20 one full brood box (the upper box) full of honey and pollen=20 remained
       50-100 =  bees died=20 apparently in the process of removing or moving honey.  (heads = still=20 stuck down into the cells as if feeding or storing).  Bodies = black and=20 dry.  
       Heads of = what=20 appear to be normally formed bees are emerging from cells in the = brood area.=20  (looks as though the hive and many of it's occupants died = suddenly=20 while going about their every day chores and=20 duties).
       Bodies of a = couple of=20 hundred bees on bottom board (not thousands as I might have expected = from=20 this booming hive if a sudden catastrophe had occurred).  Queen = not=20 visible or included in body=20 count.
        Swarm or=20 supercedure cells along the bottoms of many of the frames (I would = guess=20 they were pretty much at the same stage of=20 = development.)
        Several = combs in the lower box were damaged. (combs appeared to have been=20 "chewed on" almost down to the foundation in places . =  (there=20 were a few - very few though - mouse droppings I believe, just = inside the=20 entrance to the = hive.
        The=20 brood areas of several combs had large amounts of what appears to be = small=20 grains of an unidentified white substance.  (dead brood / = crystallized=20 uncapped honey or ?).  

I checked my second hive, and = although=20 the population was very low, I located the queen and the hive had at = least=20 survived.  The only observation I had on this survivor hive = which gives=20 me concern and which I am seeking comments=20 on:
        There were = many of=20 the above mentioned white grains in the 'empty' cells in the brood = area.=20  I noticed a clear liquid mixed in with some of the white = grains of=20 unknown matter on "some but not all" of the brood combs. =  (I=20 did a taste test on both the comb with the white grains and a second = test on=20 the cells with the white grains and the liquid.  I could not = tell any=20 difference between the flavor of uncapped honey and either of the = two tested=20 = substances.
         Also= =20 the bees that were alive in survivor hive (#2), had lost a great = deal of=20 their Italian color (not much yellow left).

I don't know what = I'm=20 dealing with, and am going to send a sample of brood comb from both = hives to=20 the bee lab in Maryland.  In the meantime, I'd like to find and = order a=20 single replacement package.  Your help and expertise (and = suggestions)=20  would be appreciated.  (including where I can get a solo = package=20 at reasonable cost at this time).

By the way,  the bee = hive that=20 is no more, was installed in my standard Lang hive;  the = survivor was=20 installed in a home built TBH.  Still find the TBH preferable = to work=20 with (I have a bit of a bad back too).

Thanks in advance for = your=20 response.  You may post to the group or email me=20 directly.

------=_NextPart_000_0058_01BD36E4.438B7BE0-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 11:58:40 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Partin Subject: Re: One didn't make it. ID help please. Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) when and how did you treat for T-mites. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 12:20:36 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Steve Field Subject: service discontinue service ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 19:27:49 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rimantas Zujus Subject: Re: bee & beekeeper brains Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BD3723.246DCA80" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD3723.246DCA80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ---------- From: Stan Sandler Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 1998 12:02 PM To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Subject: bee & beekeeper brains For comparison Bee Beekeeper Rat Brain weight 0.001g 1400g 2g Brain%of Body 5 (by vol.) 2 (by weight) .5 (by weight) Brain%of Body 1 (by weight) Total Neurons 1 million 100 billion 150 million the bee has one thousandth the number of detectors on two antennae the size of two big nose hairs! By the way, drones have a better sense of smell than workers. Antennae include sensors of smell, touch, taste, etc. A queen has 3000 sensors, worker - 6000 and drone 30.000 ( Beekeeper's reference book.Dr.J.A.Balzekas, 1987 ) Rimantas Zujus Kaunas LITHUANIA e-mail : zujus@isag.lei.lt http://www.online.lt/indexs.htm Latitude 55 Deg North Longitude 24 Deg EAST Air plus 4C ( 39F ) ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD3723.246DCA80 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IjMRAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAMAEAAAEAAAAMAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAATwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAERpc2N1c3Npb24gb2Yg QmVlIEJpb2xvZ3kAU01UUABCRUUtTEBDTlNJQk0uQUxCQU5ZLkVEVQAAHgACMAEAAAAFAAAAU01U UAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAABgAAABCRUUtTEBDTlNJQk0uQUxCQU5ZLkVEVQADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAA HgABMAEAAAAcAAAAJ0Rpc2N1c3Npb24gb2YgQmVlIEJpb2xvZ3knAAIBCzABAAAAHQAAAFNNVFA6 QkVFLUxAQ05TSUJNLkFMQkFOWS5FRFUAAAAAAwAAOQAAAAALAEA6AQAAAAIB9g8BAAAABAAAAAAA AAIENQEEgAEAGwAAAFJFOiBiZWUgJiBiZWVrZWVwZXIgYnJhaW5zAMoIAQWAAwAOAAAAzgcCAAsA EwAbADEAAwBEAQEggAMADgAAAM4HAgALABIANQAoAAMAVAEBCYABACEAAAA4OEExQjJGNzA4QTNE MTExQjhGNDQ0NDU1MzU0MDAwMADcBgEDkAYAnAUAABQAAAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwApAAAA AAADAC4AAAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5AIACwF8SN70BHgBwAAEAAAAbAAAAUkU6IGJlZSAmIGJlZWtl ZXBlciBicmFpbnMAAAIBcQABAAAAFgAAAAG9NxJfuPeyoYmjCBHRuPRERVNUAAAAAB4AHgwBAAAA BQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAfDAEAAAASAAAAenVqdXNAaXNhZy5sZWkubHQAAAADAAYQj3eyQwMABxCS AgAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAALS0tLS0tLS0tLUZST006U1RBTlNBTkRMRVJTRU5UOldFRE5FU0RBWSxG RUJSVUFSWTExLDE5OTgxMjowMlBNVE86QkVFLUxAQ05TSUJNQUxCQU5ZRURVU1VCSkVDVDpCRUUm QgAAAAACAQkQAQAAAA0EAAAJBAAApggAAExaRnWV//aK/wAKAQ8CFQKkA+QF6wKDAFATA1QCAGNo CsBzZXRuMgYABsMCgzIDxRGXMVQ4NgAAKgLhYQeAICcHEwKABxMgQgdAdGm6YwKDMwPGFNUB8TQT D/cUEA/vAgA1F58UHxUvAgDiNhEncHJxEvEanxuh7wdtAoAHbRWaNxoHHf8bT10VW30KgAjPCdk7 Jr8yPDU1AoAKgQ2xC2BuZ3gxMDYWUAsKEvIMAWNNAEAgCoUKi2xpI8AwwQLRaS0xNDQN8AzQZy2D C1wi8G90BZAFQC2vL6cKhwttLyZGA2E6MK4/LyYMggYAAZADoAYRZGx/BJAwTzFdBmACMDKPM5tX hQmAbgeQZGF5LDIwEGVicnUKwHkgMUIxOdAxOTk4OnAyZDowEiBQTTUvMV1UBm83bzObQkVFLUwA QENOU0lCTS4AQUxCQU5ZLkWMRFU7nzY+dWJqL2FLPb8zm2IJ4CAmRUJrrQngcASQRUByC3FzK6+5 LLMzNi4nGfIu+UYFsf0FoG0KsQQAAiBGvEtvS7IeQkVhTGdF5UuzUmF0BUa8QkZiIHdlaWcmaAVA S7QwLi0gMWefS7UtgC0gUOZLsTJnTo/xC4Alb2YVkARwOmBLs1A1IChiOmB2BvAu3ilSIlSTT8RV IC5UhFXFfwqPKs9HX1gPT2NBdSmkM/8WURZSKzVTrF5PK4BaPyuA/1Z/QWdIzVclPZABkAMgB8Dv CHACIAQgXxVtAxAs4AIg71EjLSBFQGUZNWXQZQVGvPx0aCRwRVIRwAQgAiAkcHtoMAhgczTBaDBo Ilclbv51BtBGIVOxDbAvUgWwaNKxaCB3byAAcC9QbiRA92kSJHAAkHokcFOxa/Jl8FlQ4G5vEfBo oWkR4CFfTKE6YGnoWY9iP3c5smTXZEEHkRHAdiRwYUVBAkDvRiER8ACAbTNzB4BlIGgh2wORbABy ReAR4C5XL1g/229vdg9BbEYLgGMKQA2w33NTa4Nz1TnQa3B1EbB7cS9owC9QOdASAGN1FkEg7nEK UAnwaKMzLSBl0Hp19znQdKQvkCBwMGXBNMFyBNd90VChCnYoTVgnBCAmwBZmBJAJ8GNoUW9va6Au RHIuSkBQLhWhjW0ga2jAOqI4NyBXFu91LwuRHVErJlIHcGwxaMEYWnVqaWCExUthdYMkQEamTElU SFVAkORJQYRcZS0AwAMRQ3CKeodSQAQAYWcuNPB+aYtwTnZBdiJSKzVQAHSgcDovL3eN8C4CILcs 4Dlwi7EvC4ANsHh1AM1QAG2IZk5gaXR6MlRSqVSARGVQ4E4mYWiIZiUCIGeQFDI0kMNFQbxTVHcf eC95Mm5wIAtQEWlgIDRDgQEzOUYLhDcl4QCXUAAAAAMAEBAAAAAAAwAREAAAAABAAAcwwP2Umg03 vQFAAAgwwP2Umg03vQEeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABSRTogAAAAAAMADTT9NwAANag= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD3723.246DCA80-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 13:15:53 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: George W Imirie Subject: Re: One didn't make it. ID help please. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Did you treat for tracheal mites? Sounds like a CLASSIC case of tracheal mite death; and your 2nd hive is probably very infected. If a similar thing had happened in hot weather, then it would have been varroa mites, but due to the laying cycle of the queen, tracheal mite death usually occurs in January. There is little or no treatment for tracheal mite except in warm-hot weather. Menthol is the only tracheal mite killer approved by the government. If grease patties are used all 12 months of the year (even in nectar flow time), the tracheal mite infection can be controlled but NOT KILLED. I have always used BOTH. George Imirie ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 10:34:06 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robert e butcher Subject: mites Hi all, been reading about different ways to treat the mites.My partner has been using Tea Tree and Wintergreen oils in canola oil applied to ordinary paper towel rite above the brood and we use blue shop papertowel taped to a strip of tile put at the entrance of the hive.It will be two years in May. We have noticed on the towels alot of dead mites, we also have seen evidence of mites in the brood section, but not on the bees themselves. We also have tried garlic oil it kills the mites too. We work both with Italian and African hybrids,with same results. This spring we''re going to use smaller comb size(4.9cm.) it has been tested for the control of the mites here in Tucson, Az.. IMHO I believe we should get ahead of the this year. Well at least we have a fighting chance at them. May the Good Lord Bless and Multiply you Bees BoB _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 17:59:19 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Juan Manuel Reil Subject: Essential oil Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII One year ago all beekeepers were talking about the use of essential oils in Varroa control and now they are all talking about FGMO. What hapen with essential oil?. it doesn't work in mite control?.Is somebody using it?.How? What rate?. Thank you ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 12:18:49 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ron Taylor Subject: South Carolina State Beekeepers Meeting South Caroliona State Beekeepers Meeting will be held on Saturday, March 7 from 9:00 to 4:00PM at the SC Farm Bureau Building, 724 Knox Abbott Drive, Cayce, West Columbia, South Carolina. A variety of programs will be presented including a welcoming by D Leslie Tindal, SC Dept of Agriculture Commissioner, Swarm prevention and Control by Certified Beekeeper, Larry Williams, Year Round Management by Paul Brown "1997 SC Beekeeper of the year", Steve Tabor, a frrequent writer for the American Bee Journal, now a South Carolina resident,and an overview of South Africian beekeeping by Sundance Bear Rivera. For additional information you can contact Mike Hood, Extension Apairist- e-mail MHood@clemson.edu or Ron Taylor, President of South Carolina Beekeepers- e-mail RTaylor421@aol.com _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 16:47:37 -0500 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" Organization: Independent non-profit research Subject: Re: South Carolina State Beekeepers Meeting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ron Taylor wrote: > South Caroliona State Beekeepers Meeting will be held on Saturday, March > 7 from 9:00 to 4:00PM at the SC Farm Bureau Building, 724 Knox Abbott > Drive, Cayce, West Columbia, South Carolina. A variety of programs will > be presented including a welcoming by D Leslie Tindal, SC Dept of > Agriculture Commissioner, Swarm prevention and Control by Certified > Beekeeper, Larry Williams, Year Round Management by Paul Brown "1997 SC > Beekeeper of the year", Steve Tabor, a frrequent writer for the American > Bee Journal, now a South Carolina resident,and an overview of South > Africian beekeeping by Sundance Bear Rivera. For additional information > you can contact Mike Hood, Extension Apairist- e-mail MHood@clemson.edu > or Ron Taylor, President of South Carolina Beekeepers- e-mail > RTaylor421@aol.com > > _____________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 16:51:52 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Iannuzzi Subject: Maryland State Beekeepers Meeting 21feb98 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Howard County Fair Grounds, West Friendship, near Ellicott City, Maryland. Speakers include Steve Tabor, from S.C., and a local boy, John Iannuzzi, discussing , supported by a pollen display, by-the-year and by-the-month, as well as by the best pollen trap out there. C U there??? jack **John Iannuzzi, Ph.D. **38 years in apiculture **12 hives of Italian honeybees **At Historic Ellicott City, Maryland, 21042, U.S.A. (10 miles west of Baltimore, Maryland) [9772 Old Annapolis Rd - 410 730 5279] **"Forsooth there is some good in things evil For bees extract sweetness from the weed" -- Bard of Avon **Website: http://www.xmetric.com/honey **Email: jiannuzz@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us [1jan981031est] ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 16:45:30 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Expectations of researchers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Several on the list have commented about the apparent fuzziness in research protocol that we have encountered with respect to the use of various oils to treat mites, as well as funding for such research. I will comment about only a few of the points raised: 1) Jerry Bromenshenk wrote (in part): >....In the U.S., most Research Grants REQUIRE Publication and Dissemination >of Results - they do not impose a gag on the investigator. Failure to >publish in Peer-Reviewed Journals will bring one's research to an end in a >hurry. Most academic and national laboratory research falls into this >category. My comment: If I remember correctly, Dr. Pedro indicated that he would publish his techniques and results of experimentation so that we could all have the opportunity to independently assess the quality of work and successful results he has alluded to. So far, I have not seen such an account appear in print. (I want to see the data.) [Roy Nettleback said much the same in his comment: "Your work is not lost. It needs a published research paper that can pass the test of the scientific community."] >[Bromenshenk again: ....I encourage every beekeeper to help promote and >sponsor >critical research. >But if you send your check, you have a right to expect a full accounting of >what you paid for (how was the money spent, what was the research, what are >the results?). There are many good researchers in this world who would be >more than glad to have some support for a bit of equipment, or a student. >And many are non-profit. My comment: Only rarely would a person working alone be able to do all the experimentation, keep all the records and books, and send full reports to all those who contributed money. That is why we have university, USDA, and state research groups. The "overhead" from their grants provides wages for people to do much of the routine paperwork. (The sponsored researcher, though, must still write the proposals and reports.) ********* 2. Roy Nettleback wrote: >....I have no doubt about FGMO killing Varroa. We can kill varroa with many >different means. A fine mist of oil was used years ago to kill the mites. It >killed the mites and some bees along with it because the application did not >have a standard. Over the last year we have had beekeepers here in >Washington State, using spray bottles and killing all of their bees. A >little bit of information is inherently dangerous in the hands of >beekeepers. Carefully applied, means different things to different people. My comment: Relying on testimonials from people who successfully tinkered with their colonies is like too readily accepting comments from those who just returned from Las Vegas, Reno, or Atlantic City and reported on their winnings. You normally hear only from those who beat the system that last trip. The legion of people who lost money remain remarkably silent when they return home. (Those large gambling casinos were not built because players most often won!) So also with a beekeeper who has tried a method that failed. We can expect silence from such a person. Perhaps the technique was applied wrong. Perhaps the beekeeper is too embarrassed to admit to a large loss of colonies by being foolish. Many rationalizations are possible. And what about a technique working in one part of the country but not in another --- or in one season but not in another? 3. Another beekeeper wrote that he was switching to FGMO for all his colonies. Our research on Santa Cruz Island indicates that colonies can remain viable for more than two years after varroa infestation before collapsing. That collapse is sudden. As I have indicated before, colonies seem to have a morale breakdown --- they just give up. Do you beekeepers really want to put all your eggs in one basket and then wait more than two years before realizing that the experimental technique failed? 4. Someone else wrote that older beekeepers and researchers were too set in their ways and thus would not accept some new technique. My comment: I have found some of the older people actually become mellow and more willing to accept new ideas ("older and wiser"). Others remain fixed in their opinions until they die. I have also seen many young people come out of their education and/or training VERY fixed in their belief systems and totally unwilling to entertain alternative explanations to the "facts" indoctrinated into them. In other words, let's not consider one's age a factor in this discussion. ******** Yours for better science. Adrian (nearly 70 and still fighting mindsets) Adrian M. Wenner (805) 893-2838 (UCSB office) Ecol., Evol., & Marine Biology (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Univ. of Calif., Santa Barbara (805) 963-8508 (home office & FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 *********************************************************************** * "Discovery is to see what everyone else has seen, * * but to think what no one else has thought." * * --- Albert Szent-Gyorgyi * *********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 20:21:17 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kevin D. Parsons" Subject: Brown Pollen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 This weekend I watched the bees bringing in dark brown, almost black load= s of pollen. I was able to trace it to the source: my so-called compost pile. There were hundreds of bees crawling all over the coffee grounds. I doubt if th= at will be much help for raising new bees. Might give them a buzz, though. Kevin D. Parsons Pittsburgh PA USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 01:04:50 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Elroy Rogers Subject: Re: Expectations of researchers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have tried to stay out of the negative FGMO comments on this list. But now I realize it's time to put my two cents on the subject. I have made a few comments below. Adrian Wenner wrote: > > Several on the list have commented about the apparent fuzziness in > research protocol that we have encountered with respect to the use of > various oils to treat mites, as well as funding for such research. > > I will comment about only a few of the points raised: > > 1) Jerry Bromenshenk wrote (in part): > > >....In the U.S., most Research Grants REQUIRE Publication and Dissemination > >of Results - they do not impose a gag on the investigator. Failure to > >publish in Peer-Reviewed Journals will bring one's research to an end in a > >hurry. Most academic and national laboratory research falls into this > >category. > > My comment: If I remember correctly, Dr. Pedro indicated that he >would > publish his techniques and results of experimentation so that we could >all > have the opportunity to independently assess the quality of work and > successful results he has alluded to. So far, I have not seen such an > account appear in print. (I want to see the data.) > I remember Dr. Rodriguez said everyone could look up his comments submitted earlier to this group. If he resubmitted every time someone asked him to there would be alot of wasted space in the achives of the list. As for funding for research who are you trying to kid, I don't believe for a minute FGMO could get the same attention as Apistan or some other chemical with big bucks behind them. They know once aproved by big brother the company has a monopoly going for them, I would'nt doubt that some of the comments against FGMO on this list are from people that want to save their research funding. After all if something as simple as FGMO is proven to work then who needs apistan and all the other chemicals and acids. Since it is food grade and already has approval to be used around food products it also can silence the EPA. > [Roy Nettleback said much the same in his comment: "Your work is not > lost. It needs a published research paper that can pass the test of the > scientific community."] > > >[Bromenshenk again: ....I encourage every beekeeper to help promote and > >sponsor >critical research. > >But if you send your check, you have a right to expect a full >accounting of > >what you paid for (how was the money spent, what was the research, >what are > >the results?). There are many good researchers in this world who >would be > >more than glad to have some support for a bit of equipment, or a >student. > >And many are non-profit. > I would like to hear from one researcher that doesn't think that FGMO is a waste of time, and is going to include test on FGMO this summer. Like the wise old drone on the left coast always says get down to real bee research on what beekeepers really what to hear about and not just BS. > My comment: Only rarely would a person working alone be able to do >all > the experimentation, keep all the records and books, and send full >reports > to all those who contributed money. That is why we have university, >USDA, > and state research groups. The "overhead" from their grants provides wages > for people to do much of the routine paperwork. (The sponsored >researcher, > though, must still write the proposals and reports.) > > ********* > Now you said it, sponsored researcher, sponsored by the big chemical companies. I am sure I would never get the same access as they get with my piddly donation. there is a old saying that goes a long way here, Money talks bull s... walks. > 2. Roy Nettleback wrote: > > >....I have no doubt about FGMO killing Varroa. We can kill varroa with many > >different means. A fine mist of oil was used years ago to kill the mites. It > >killed the mites and some bees along with it because the application did not > >have a standard. Over the last year we have had beekeepers here in > >Washington State, using spray bottles and killing all of their bees. A > >little bit of information is inherently dangerous in the hands of > >beekeepers. Carefully applied, means different things to different people. > This is propaganda put out by the opposition to FGMO, I tried to spray mineral oil out of a spray bottle it doesn't work. It comes out in a stream and not a mist, any idiot could see that the bees die within 30 seconds after being hit from it, hey I did. > My comment: Relying on testimonials from people who successfully > tinkered with their colonies is like too readily accepting comments >from > those who just returned from Las Vegas, Reno, or Atlantic City and reported > on their winnings. You normally hear only from those who beat the system > that last trip. The legion of people who lost money remain remarkably > silent when they return home. (Those large gambling casinos were not built > because players most often won!) The beekeepers that have used FGMO are exited because they feel they just contributed in some small way to the fight against these nasty mites. I have used FGMO last year for treatment of mites, and I do have prove that it made a real difference. This was from an outside inspector that said it would not work before he did his inspection, he did change his mind in 30 minutes after making that statement. I am not going to comment on the prove any further because it takes some explaining and I believe I need permission from another party to use the documents. If anyone wants to see the prove I don't think it will be a problem. > > So also with a beekeeper who has tried a method that failed. We can > expect silence from such a person. Perhaps the technique was applied > wrong. Perhaps the beekeeper is too embarrassed to admit to a large loss > of colonies by being foolish. Many rationalizations are possible. And > what about a technique working in one part of the country but not in > another --- or in one season but not in another? > I think there is no such person, because if he followed simple instructions then he is also a believer of FGMO > 3. Another beekeeper wrote that he was switching to FGMO for all his colonies. > > Our research on Santa Cruz Island indicates that colonies can remain > viable for more than two years after varroa infestation before collapsing. > That collapse is sudden. As I have indicated before, colonies seem to have > a morale breakdown --- they just give up. Do you beekeepers really want to > put all your eggs in one basket and then wait more than two years before > realizing that the experimental technique failed? > I would sugest they do as I did, treat with apistan in the spring, then start treating with mineral oil after the strips are pulled. By the time fall comes they will see what all FGMO beekeepers have seen, its like turning the clock back to the early 70S when varroa was'nt around. I do remmember those good old days when beekeping was fun and honey prices were lousy. > 4. Someone else wrote that older beekeepers and researchers were too set > in their ways and thus would not accept some new technique. > > My comment: I have found some of the older people actually become > mellow and more willing to accept new ideas ("older and wiser"). Others > remain fixed in their opinions until they die. > > I have also seen many young people come out of their education and/or > training VERY fixed in their belief systems and totally unwilling to > entertain alternative explanations to the "facts" indoctrinated into them. > > In other words, let's not consider one's age a factor in this >discussion. You can teach an old dog new tricks, and I have seen young dogs that should have been shot. There are some beekeepers that don't want to change with the times, I know because I met one I bought all his equipment for a song. Lucky for me the mite run him out of business. I would like to challenge anyone to prove that FGMO doesn't work, isn't that the way it is supose to work in the scientific community. Meaning you try to disprove the statement that FGMO works on mites. Now follow your statement below see what everyone else has seen that used FGMO, by doing your own research this summer. > > ******** > > Yours for better science. > > Adrian (nearly 70 and still fighting mindsets) > > Adrian M. Wenner (805) 893-2838 (UCSB office) > Ecol., Evol., & Marine Biology (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) > Univ. of Calif., Santa Barbara (805) 963-8508 (home office & FAX) > Santa Barbara, CA 93106 > > *********************************************************************** > * "Discovery is to see what everyone else has seen, * > * but to think what no one else has thought." * > * --- Albert Szent-Gyorgyi * > *********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 01:32:30 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Elroy Rogers Subject: Re: Expectations of researchers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry if post sent twice Wrong date: I have tried to stay out of the negative FGMO comments on this list. But now I realize it's time to put my two cents on the subject. I have made a few comments below. Adrian Wenner wrote: > > Several on the list have commented about the apparent fuzziness in > research protocol that we have encountered with respect to the use of > various oils to treat mites, as well as funding for such research. > > I will comment about only a few of the points raised: > > 1) Jerry Bromenshenk wrote (in part): > > >....In the U.S., most Research Grants REQUIRE Publication and Dissemination > >of Results - they do not impose a gag on the investigator. Failure to > >publish in Peer-Reviewed Journals will bring one's research to an end in a > >hurry. Most academic and national laboratory research falls into this > >category. > > My comment: If I remember correctly, Dr. Pedro indicated that he would > publish his techniques and results of experimentation so that we could all > have the opportunity to independently assess the quality of work and > successful results he has alluded to. So far, I have not seen such an > account appear in print. (I want to see the data.) I remember Dr. Rodriguez said everyone could look up his comments submitted earlier to this group. If he resubmitted every time someone asked him to there would be alot of wasted space in the achives of the list. As for funding for research who are you trying to kid, I don't believe for a minute FGMO could get the same attention as Apistan or some other chemical with big bucks behind them. They know once aproved by big brother the company has a monopoly going for them, I would'nt doubt that some of the comments against FGMO on this list are from people that want to save their research funding. After all if something as simple as FGMO is proven to work then who needs apistan and all the other chemicals and acids. Since it is food grade and already has approval to be used around food products it also can silence the EPA. > > [Roy Nettleback said much the same in his comment: "Your work is not > lost. It needs a published research paper that can pass the test of the > scientific community."] > > >[Bromenshenk again: ....I encourage every beekeeper to help promote and > >sponsor >critical research. > >But if you send your check, you have a right to expect a full accounting of > >what you paid for (how was the money spent, what was the research, what are > >the results?). There are many good researchers in this world who would be > >more than glad to have some support for a bit of equipment, or a student. > >And many are non-profit. I would like to hear from one researcher that doesn't think that FGMO is a waste of time, and is going to include test on FGMO this summer. Like the wise old drone on the left coast always says get down to real bee research on what beekeepers really what to hear about and not just BS. > > My comment: Only rarely would a person working alone be able to do all > the experimentation, keep all the records and books, and send full reports > to all those who contributed money. That is why we have university, USDA, > and state research groups. The "overhead" from their grants provides wages > for people to do much of the routine paperwork. (The sponsored researcher, > though, must still write the proposals and reports.) > Now you said it, sponsored researcher, sponsored by the big chemical companies. I am sure I would never get the same access as they get with my piddly donation. there is a old saying that goes a long way here, Money talks bull s... walks. > ********* > > 2. Roy Nettleback wrote: > > >....I have no doubt about FGMO killing Varroa. We can kill varroa with many > >different means. A fine mist of oil was used years ago to kill the mites. It > >killed the mites and some bees along with it because the application did not > >have a standard. Over the last year we have had beekeepers here in > >Washington State, using spray bottles and killing all of their bees. A > >little bit of information is inherently dangerous in the hands of > >beekeepers. Carefully applied, means different things to different people. This is propaganda put out by the opposition to FGMO, I tried to spray mineral oil out of a spray bottle it doesn't work. It comes out in a stream and not a mist, any idiot could see that the bees die within 30 seconds after being hit from it, hey I did. > > My comment: Relying on testimonials from people who successfully > tinkered with their colonies is like too readily accepting comments from > those who just returned from Las Vegas, Reno, or Atlantic City and reported > on their winnings. You normally hear only from those who beat the system > that last trip. The legion of people who lost money remain remarkably > silent when they return home. (Those large gambling casinos were not built > because players most often won!) > The beekeepers that have used FGMO are exited because they feel they just contributed in some small way to the fight against these nasty mites. I have used FGMO last year for treatment of mites, and I do have prove that it made a real difference. This was from an outside inspector that said it would not work before he did his inspection, he did change his mind in 30 minutes after making that statement. I am not going to comment on the prove any further because it takes some explaining and I believe I need permission from another party to use the documents. If anyone wants to see the prove I don't think it will be a problem. > So also with a beekeeper who has tried a method that failed. We can > expect silence from such a person. Perhaps the technique was applied > wrong. Perhaps the beekeeper is too embarrassed to admit to a large loss > of colonies by being foolish. Many rationalizations are possible. And > what about a technique working in one part of the country but not in > another --- or in one season but not in another? > I think there is no such person, because if he followed simple instructions then he is also a believer of FGMO > 3. Another beekeeper wrote that he was switching to FGMO for all his colonies. > > Our research on Santa Cruz Island indicates that colonies can remain > viable for more than two years after varroa infestation before collapsing. > That collapse is sudden. As I have indicated before, colonies seem to have > a morale breakdown --- they just give up. Do you beekeepers really want to > put all your eggs in one basket and then wait more than two years before > realizing that the experimental technique failed? > I would sugest they do as I did, treat with apistan in the spring, then start treating with mineral oil after the strips are pulled. By the time fall comes they will see what all FGMO beekeepers have seen, its like turning the clock back to the early 70S when varroa was'nt around. I do remmember those good old days when beekeping was fun and honey prices were lousy. > 4. Someone else wrote that older beekeepers and researchers were too set > in their ways and thus would not accept some new technique. > > My comment: I have found some of the older people actually become > mellow and more willing to accept new ideas ("older and wiser"). Others > remain fixed in their opinions until they die. > > I have also seen many young people come out of their education and/or > training VERY fixed in their belief systems and totally unwilling to > entertain alternative explanations to the "facts" indoctrinated into them. > > In other words, let's not consider one's age a factor in this discussion. You can teach an old dog new tricks, and I have seen young dogs that should have been shot. There are some beekeepers that don't want to change with the times, I know because I met one I bought all his equipment for a song. Lucky for me the mite run him out of business. I would like to challenge anyone to prove that FGMO doesn't work, isn't that the way it is supose to work in the scientific community. Meaning you try to disprove the statement that FGMO works on mites. Now follow your statement below see what everyone else has seen that used FGMO, by doing your own research this summer. Lets keep an open mind with FGMO, Elroy > > ******** > > Yours for better science. > > Adrian (nearly 70 and still fighting mindsets) > > Adrian M. Wenner (805) 893-2838 (UCSB office) > Ecol., Evol., & Marine Biology (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) > Univ. of Calif., Santa Barbara (805) 963-8508 (home office & FAX) > Santa Barbara, CA 93106 > > *********************************************************************** > * "Discovery is to see what everyone else has seen, * > * but to think what no one else has thought." * > * --- Albert Szent-Gyorgyi * > *********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 23:57:40 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Linda Peabody Subject: Re: service MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BD374C.936D54E0" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD374C.936D54E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit would like to change my email address please .. from lpeabody@ligthspeed.net to the new one... lpeabody@jps.net.. if this is ok ... or can someone tell me where to change it at.. thanks. ---------- From: Steve Field[SMTP:LCB3531@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 1998 9:20 AM To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Subject: service discontinue service ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD374C.936D54E0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IhoIAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG ADABAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAE8AAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABEaXNjdXNzaW9uIG9mIEJlZSBCaW9sb2d5AFNNVFAAQkVFLUxAQ05TSUJNLkFMQkFO WS5FRFUAAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgADMAEAAAAYAAAAQkVFLUxAQ05TSUJNLkFMQkFO WS5FRFUAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAAHAAAACdEaXNjdXNzaW9uIG9mIEJlZSBCaW9s b2d5JwACAQswAQAAAB0AAABTTVRQOkJFRS1MQENOU0lCTS5BTEJBTlkuRURVAAAAAAMAADkAAAAA CwBAOgEAAAACAfYPAQAAAAQAAAAAAAADBjUBCIAHABgAAABJUE0uTWljcm9zb2Z0IE1haWwuTm90 ZQAxCAEEgAEADAAAAFJFOiBzZXJ2aWNlAOIDAQWAAwAOAAAAzgcCAAsAFwA5ACgAAwBdAQEggAMA DgAAAM4HAgALABcAOAAEAAMAOAEBCYABACEAAAA0RjU3Nzk2QjNBQTNEMTExQjRFRTQ0NDU1MzU0 MDAwMADvBgEDkAYAVAMAABAAAAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwApAAAAAAADADYAAAAAAEAAOQAA Bhvkize9AR4AcAABAAAADAAAAFJFOiBzZXJ2aWNlAAIBcQABAAAAFgAAAAG9N4vkAWt5V1CjOhHR tO5ERVNUAAAAAAMABhAGEZihAwAHEBUBAAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAABXT1VMRExJS0VUT0NIQU5HRU1Z RU1BSUxBRERSRVNTUExFQVNFRlJPTUxQRUFCT0RZQExJR1RIU1BFRURORVRUT1RIRU5FV09ORUxQ RUFCT0RZQEpQU05FVElGVEhJU0lTT0tPAAAAAAIBCRABAAAAGQIAABUCAADjAwAATFpGdVu2jqT/ AAoBDwIVAqgF6wKDAFAC8gkCAGNoCsBzZXQyNwYABsMCgzIDxQIAcHJCcRHic3RlbQKDM3cC5AcT AoB9CoAIzwnZO/EWDzI1NQKACoENsQtg4G5nMTAzFFALChRRJQvyYwBAIHcIYGxkACBsaWtlIHRv jiARcRkQG4BteSAT4OMLcAMgYWRkFhAEEQtQhGVhEbAgLi4gA1KNG0BwHXAG4GR5QBtQMGd0aHMe UAmALm7/EcAKhRuhHwAbgB+AB+ACII5lHcAd0B5HanBzH3J/HcEiYAaQIEEEACKABCBvrmsdsR3Q BbFjA5FzA3DmZSDRG5BlbAMgB4AKha53IGAWEBuZaQVAYSIyex8AAHBrIfAKhQqLG1AxBDgwAtFp LTE0NM8N8AzQKVMLWTE2CqADYPUT0GMFQC0rdwqHKisMMPUq9kYDYTosfir2DIIGADUT0HYbgEYI kBsgW1MATVRQOkxDQjOgNTMxQGEG8C4FoPxtXSwfLS0GYAIwLl8vawZXCYAfgHNkYXksYS4AZWJy dQrAHFAxAjE28DE5OTggOTY6AdAUsE0yTy0tVG8DNI8va0JFRS1MQABDTlNJQk0uQQBMQkFOWS5F RMZVOK8zXnViaisxOs/DL2sRsHJ2aWMlBift3DM2KfcaRSr2ZAQABaD/AjALgApQQl9C/0QPRRoK hQUVMQBLIAAAAAMAEBAAAAAAAwAREAAAAABAAAcwYHn5qos3vQFAAAgwYHn5qos3vQEeAD0AAQAA AAUAAABSRTogAAAAAN3d ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD374C.936D54E0-- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 01:49:14 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Bruce E. King" Subject: FDA/EPA approval for MO treatment? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I've been following this thread on the use of MO (FG or PG) for treatment of mites. Yes, I've read the attached files from Pedro (no thanks, I don't need another set of copies). I am a graduate student working on a bee monitoring project with Dr. Jerry Bromenshenk. That in itself doesn't give me any knowledge of the miticide application process. In fact, since I'm allergic, I don't have any beekeeping responsibilities other than telling the beekeepers when my electronic beecounters say things aren't going well for the colony. But, even though I don't get to enjoy working the bees, I do have access to the worlds most comprehensive database of honey bee and bumble bee flight activity at my fingertips. I've been able to identify windy days, proximety of other hives and availability of forage resources based solely on the flight data. I've also identified the effects of some 'stupid beekeeper tricks', such as working the colony while standing in front of the entrance to the colony. Would you expect bees to drift to a colony 20 feet away? Neither did we. I am by training an analytical chemist. I've analyzed honey for trace pesticide residues before, this is a very difficult preparation. I've worked for short periods (co-op positions as an undergrad) at both Nor-Am Chemical (some of you more experienced guys might recognize them) and Smithkline Beecham Animal Health. The Nor-Am job mostly looked at trace residue analysis, which helps determine whether a pesticide or miticide breaks down in the environment in a timely manner. DDT is an example of a pesticide that does not break down in a timely manner, hence most civilized countries have banned its use. I have learned that one of the biggest problems with pesticides is improper mixing and application. This can be dangerous, not only to the consumer and other non-target organisms, but also to the farmer or beekeeper involved in the mixing and application process. At Smithkline my duties were a little different. We were trying to get FDA and EPA approval for a protein supplement to be used in sheep and cattle feeds. Being new to the process I asked why we needed EPA approval. It turns out that whatever the animal ingests is usually digested and excreted. The excrement was of interest to EPA (wow, only one meaning is intended there). If the protein supplement was not fully broken down by the sheep's digestive system it would eventually be released into the environment. The impact of the protein supplement on the environment needed to be studied in order to verify that it broke down quickly and didn't harm or benefit other non-target organisms. Other studies were done to fully understand how the protein supplement would benefit the target organism. These studies are vital to FDA approval. A proposed mechanism was put forth and thoroughly tested to fully characterize the process by which the protein supplement benefitted the target organism. Modifications can be made to the original proposal if they were needed, but the bottom line is that the exact mode of action or mechanism by which the active chemical compounds worked to benefit the target organism must be determined. It was also necessary to show how, if at all, the active chemical compounds affected other organisms. Why such thorough studies? Well, just because a chemical seems benign to human beings or to the plant or animal we are trying to protect, it does not mean that it won't adversely affect the environment. A simple example that beekeepers should be familiar with would be knapweed. Bees love to forage on knapweed. Its a great way to increase you honey flow. I have flight data from last summer showing a very busy knapweed forage period for our bees. So far knapweed sounds very beneficial to bees and humans. Unfortunately, cattle don't like the idea of grazing knapweed. In fact, since knapweek is a noxious weed, it chokes out other native grasses (I don't have the exact mechanism, but I would guess by simply growing faster and consuming more water). How easily does knapweed get from one place to another? I've found knapweed growing in my driveway this past summer for the first time. There is no local source in the neighborhood, but I have had to drive though knapweed to get to our apiary. Not only does knapweed have a long residence time (it remains long after the useful period), but it is easily transported through the environment, both of these would signal the death of any potential miticide or pesticide. To summarize, what seems to be a simple solution (knapweed as a robust source of nectar and pollen) to a complex problem (increase honey production) is usually not the right solution. Knapweed is the subject of weed control programs here in Montana that use weed-cutting and chemical application. It's interesting that chemical application is required to control something that is so beneficial to the bees. Before I start on the MO debate, let's get a couple of definitions straight. Water is a chemical. The air we breath consists of chemicals. Our bodies are made up of chemicals. Application of a substance used for mite control is considered a chemical treatment (that includes mineral oil, I'll get to that in a moment). Use of scraping or traps or sticky-tape would be considered a physical treatment. Letting the bees develop their own mite resistant strains would be considered a genetic solution. Mineral oil consists of a class of organic chemical compounds, whereas _almost_ all pesticides and miticides consist of a single active chemical compound. Another simple analogy: water is a chemical, too much water, humans die. Too litte water, humans die. Proper amounts of water are essential to sustain human life. Human life relies on a chemical (water) that can kill the human if it is present in quantities that are too high or low. In my research with the bee monitoring project we've verified electronically some things that beekeepers have always known about bees. When it rains, most honey bees return to their hives before the rain begins. That's a pretty simple statement and we have lots of data proving it is true, but what we still haven't nailed down is the exact mechanism by which the bees detect the onslaught of a rainstorm. Are they reacting to a temperature change? What about relative humidity, or barometric pressure or wind speed and direction? What about a change in solar radiation? Maybe it's a combination of several of these factors. The precise process by which the bees decide to return to the hive and not resume flying until the rain has passed is still unknown. We know that an incoming rainshower affects flight activity (defined as bees entering and exiting the hive), but not why the bees return the to hive before the storm, or even how they detect the storm. These questions require more research before we can claim to know how rain affects flight activity. Miticides have an established mode of action. Check your favorite manufacturer and they might be willing to tell you how their's works. This is required for FDA and EPA approval. EPA can fine people for selling or using unapproved pesticides. FDA and EPA approval can help absolve the manufacturers and resellers of pesticides from lawsuits if a crop-loss or low honey return occurs. Lack of proper governmental approval can make some parties subject to a barrage of very expensive lawsuits. Is Pedro liable if somebody still has a mite induced loss of bees after treating with MO? For Pedro's sake, I hope not. I've seen some complaints about not having many choices for miticides and the development of fluvalinate resistant strains of mites. These complaints need to be collected here on Bee-L and sent to the companies interested in improving their products. I would like for beekeepers to appreciate the amount of time and money that is involved in the miticide development cycle. The Smithkline protein supplement project was a multi-million dollar world-wide study that was BARELY going to be profitable for the company IF they got approval for use within a short period of time. My guess is that no chemical company in the world will touch the topic of using MO as a miticide for bees. MO is easily available, hence no control over the profit from sales of MO. It will also be extremely difficult and costly to determine the exact mode of action of MO on mites. The application of MO into the hive could be a mechanism for profit, but low-cost requirements will demand a simple device that is probably no more advanced than that currently used for mite treatment. At this point, if you are still reading you might just be interested in the last part. I would like to propose that some members of Bee-L get organized and try to get MO approved by FDA and EPA as a miticide without the help from some big chemical company. Let's make use of ongoing university research programs and private beekeepers around the world. No more crap about MO not being harmful to human beings, THAT'S JUST NOT GOOD ENOUGH. Knapweed isn't directly harmful to human beings. This would require determining the effects of MO on the environment that the application as a miticide would release it into. Here are some examples of what needs to be studied: EXTERNAL FACTORS (outside of the hive): Will MO be transported outside of the hive? In what quantities? How long will it take to break down? What effect will it have on plant and animal species? For example, what if the presence of MO will cause important pollen and nectar producing plants to limit pollen and nectar production? I think that would be bad. What if the presence of MO did affect pollen and nectar production but there was no method of transferring the pollen from the bee to the plant? No mode of transfer, probably not a problem. What if the presence of MO causes deformities in frogs??? Do we blame the iguanas? (just kidding, about the iguanas, not about the frogs) INTERNAL FACTORS (inside the hive): How will the presence of MO affect the use of signalling chemicals in the hive? Will the queen stop laying? What about africanized honey bees? If signalling in the hive is hampered, will AHB's have less difficulty raiding hives? What about queen chirping as an audio signal? Could the presence of MO affect this? I find it difficult to believe that MO would not affect hive dynamics in any way, both beneficial and detrimental. Does the presence of MO affect thermoregulation behavior? What if the MO made it more difficult for the bees to evaporate water, resulting in higher hive temperatures? What is the optimal temperature for mite reproduction? Would an increased hive temperature have an affect on the mite's viability??? Maybe that's how MO kills the mites, by causing a core temperature increase. Maybe there is a better product that can increase the temperature in a similar fashion?? Lots of others that I'm sure the beekeepers can think of. PHYSIOLOGY (bee physiology): What does MO do to bees as single specimens? Does it kill them, if so then how? What is the LD50 of MO on bees? What are the acute and chronic effects? What levels of MO produce acute and chronic effects? Are these levels exceeded during treatment? MODE OF ACTION ON MITES: How does it kill the mite? How long does it take to kill the mite? What happens to the dead mites? What is the active ingredient in MO? Is there a single active ingredient, or does the process rely on the co-existance of several distinct chemical compounds? What if one grade of mineral oil doesn't have all of the required active chemical components, or does, but not in the correct relative concentrations? Do mites have strong and weak years? What causes the strong and weak years? What are the dynamics of mite and bee populations??? Do the mites interact with other species that may be artificially eliminated from apiaries due to groundskeeping?? The above represents a sampling of what questions need to be answered. I'm sure that many more can be added to the list. Again, somebody needs to contact FDA and EPA and find out exactly what they would require to approve the use of MO as a miticide. I really believe that well controlled studies to determine the effect MO has on mites will be more fruitful than the sporadic results that have been obtained so far. 1.5 years of study barely scratches the surface of what is required for FDA and EPA approval, but it might show them that there is something to study. The list that was posted a couple weeks ago is a good start. Let's be proactive here. If MO solves the mite problem, then lets use all of our technology to prove it. If MO won't solve the problem, or only masks a bigger problem, careful study will prevent the unwarranted application of MO. Only when all questions have been answered should the use of MO continue. Any furthur discussion of what MO can do or how many hives it has saved is pointless until progess is made on obtaining government approval for its use and the method of action on the mites is pinpointed. Hand-waving doesn't work, repeating unsupported claims only annoys people. Name calling only fuels flame wars. As far as MO is concerned, it would be wise to either put up or shut up, i.e., if you can prove how it works and that it will not introduce a greater problem than the mites already have presented, then it should be used, but if not, then it is no more effective than a 19th century elixar. Profitting from research is not the intent of university researchers. I could easily get a job in industry next year and make over $60K/year. That's not my goal in life. I still have some questions that need answered, and this whole MO thing has me asking more (obviously). Who's side am I on? The bees and the environment. By the way, I did a quick literature search using Chem. Abstracts the other night. Turns out that mineral oil has been used since the late 1960's for generic mite treatment. I would suggest that we give proper credit to the true 'fathers' of MO treatment, the ones who used it as a carrying agent for the really potent pesticides and found that MO alone had an effect on the mites. I agree with Dr. Wenner's comments on this thread. More careful study is needed to verify the effectiveness of MO on mites. For those who are unfamiliar with bee research, Dr. Wenner is an outstanding example of someone who has gone against the tide of popular opinion. I'd like to add more, but I got a thesis that's calling my name, and another field season fast approaching. ________________________________________________________________ Bruce King beking@selway.umt.edu Department of Chemistry phone: (406) 542-2993 University of Montana fax: (406) 243-4227 Missoula, MT 59812 ________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 01:34:17 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: HARD SMOKE Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" "Hard Smoke' is what beekeepers do when their bees get out of control. We have all done it and sometimes in the heat of the battle a little fire comes out and opp's some wings get flamed and a few handful of bees are prematurely aged and sent off to a better life. Today in many places in the bee world the varroa mite continues to cause beekeepers to Hard Smoke. Years ago before the first ugly American beekeeper had discovered the first vampire mite on a bee attracted to the light of a window in his honey barn European beekeepers had killed more bees controlling varroa mites and tried almost all agricultural chemicals on their bees then has been documented killed by the mites they targeted for death. (Some beekeepers also were able to degrade their own personal health in the effort to kill varroa mites and all should be aware that danger is real.) Of course history always repeats itself and I have held back a little on some of the horror stories passed on to me by US commercial beekeepers from all areas of the US because what they do to their own bees is really none of my business and repeating this kind of antidotal information can cause problems to otherwise innocent and good people. Beekeepers who must make a living from bees have a real problem balancing that need with their responsibility of being good citizens, all these laws, rules, regulations, and bee research never seem to take into consideration that beekeeper can not wait years, and years for the paper work to clear whatever committee when the bees they need to make a living to live like normal people are today's needs, so short cuts are made. We all live with the fear that some chemical will get into someone's honey and cause a problem for all. Of course you are right but at the same time there are private interests outside of the honey production side of the industry that are also concerned and do check bulk honey for adulteration and farm chemicals, and they do find these cheerless and adulteration in honey and because that honey is returned to the producer and any information that is required by law to be passed on to the Pure Food & Drug Administration and other government agencies is passed on, only a very small amount of the total honey produced in the US is found to be contaminated or adulterated as no honey producer can afford to not be able to sell his crop. It is no different for imported honey which is also checked by bulk purchasers and foreign honey is found to be contaminated, adulterated, or with farm chemicals and it is also rejected from sale. This also is a small percentage of the total amount imported because of the high costs involved to those who are caught. So we do have some protection from government and private interests checking our honey. The danger is that down the road someone will put all these measures together in such a way as to put fear in the minds of the public and we will suffer the loss of our good public will for Honey. The danger is real and it would not necessarily take some new contamination or adulteration to have a real PR problem, kind of like our/your President with all his old girlfriends coming out of the closet. Well let me tell you, yes I get reports of beekeepers doing some outlandish things to protect their bees and using other then prescribed methods to control the varroa mites resulting not in the contamination of their farm production but for sure causing the complete loss of their hives sometimes in numbers of 1,000 or more hives, dead, dead, at one time. Some of these losses were not because they were not able to control mites by legal methods but to pinch a penny or just out of curiosity and bad judgement, but more and more are reporting the failure of the legal and prescribed chemical in controlling mites, or using the prescribed chemical and following the directions and still having the bees go to hell in a hand basket. It is not really clear which it is I suspect the later but in any case beekeepers for what ever reason are having a real problem today with mites in some areas or operations that can not be met by the prescribed and lawful method of control and are using not approved chemicals. It is not a general problem, yet, and I still think this loss is not all because of T or V mites, but it is a growing problem and it is real to those who are suffering. One case that may shine a little lite on what they are up against. A beekeeper picked up a load (500 hives) in Florida that had been treated lawfully and found on inspecting them prour to loading them out to be infested with numbers of mites that exceeded anything he had ever experienced, multiple varroa mites on every bee. He had to move them so assigned one man to smoke them and another to spray the entrances with an no longer approved chemical as they were being loaded. When these bees arrived at their out of state destination in the south west after a day and half on the truck they were unloaded. Close examination found NO dead bees out of the normal wind damage but so many varroa mites had died and were kicked out by the bees in transit that the tops of the hives on the bottom tier were covered as was the bed of the truck. I wish I had a picture because words can not discribe what was seen except his bee hive tops and the truck were carpeted red with dead mites. In this case without the unlawful treatment these bees would all be dead today instead of having taken another long trip on the semi truck and pollinating almonds in California before making the trip back to the south west and finally ending up in the north for the clover flow... Is this beekeeper a criminal and threat to all other beekeepers and the good name of honey? Well if he were to get caught you sure better believe that is what the bee police will testify too in court at his trial and I guess some would say he got what he deserved if here were locked away from the rest of the beekeepers, but I say to all we may be entering into a time when it is easier for the few who would see all honey bees destroyed by pestilence get their wish and hard times for those who wish only to have healthy bees for commerce or hobby and I see no way that someday we may all be outlaws if we wish to continue. I just hope these beekeepers who are doing these things are more cleaver on covering them up then our/your President has been keeping his thing covered up. In any case don't ask for names or even chemicals involved, if you are that interested come to California the next few week almost every commercial beekeeper in the US who has his bees on wheels is here and everyone of them has a set of these Hard Smoke stories. A keg of nails dropped on highway 99 would catch an easy 20 to 30 truck loads of bees per hour after dark, or look for the real cheep motels that have big dark drug dealing parking lots or just about any all night coffee shop between Bakersfield and Mt. Shasta, or just look for the muddiest looking trucks, with the tiredest looking drivers toeing the newest forklifts covered from mast to rear end with fresh sticky mud. Beekeeping is a lot of fun!! ttul, the OLd Drone * Use tasteful words, You might have to eat them. (c)Permission is given to copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 07:35:10 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jon C Peacock Subject: Re: bee & beekeeper brains Hello Rimantas Zujus >A queen has 3000 sensors, worker - 6000 and drone 30.000 >( Beekeeper's reference book. Dr. J. A. Balzekas, 1987 ) How can any one or Dr. Balzekas see 3000 or 30, 000 sensors on the antennae of a bee? Further, how do you, or Dr. Balzekas know that what he is counting Are sensors. Counting 30,000 of anything gives me vertigo. Regards, J. C. Peacock, :-} E-Mail jayseapcok@Juno.com Retired Staff Sergeant. Grandfather to 6. 3 of each. 14 years Bee keepr. 8 Italian hives. Small Craft sailor. "Every day discover something new in the every day things around you, look at things differently." _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 12:33:05 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: swalters@III.COM Subject: looking for Memerrell's address I am looking to buy inexpensive raw wax and the best price I saw on the net was $6.50 a pound at Southwestern Beekeeping Supply Co (Memerrell) in Ohio, I beleive. But their web side did not have their address, phone number or email address. Does anyone know it? Please reply to swalters@iii.com, NOT the entire list. Thanks. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 09:53:48 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Juan Manuel Reil Subject: Essential oil Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sorry if post sent twice but the first time i haven't received the acknolodge: One year ago all beekeepers were talking about the use of essential oil in Varroa control and now they are all talking about FGMO. What hapen with essential oil?. it doesn't work in mite control?.Is somebody using it?.How? What rate?. Thank you ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:14:31 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: one did'nt make it Hi As regards this, my gut feeling would be that something disturbed your bees. In my area it never gets cold enough for bees not to be able to defend themselves, but I have had rats come in and chew frames out of weak/cold beehives. When their brood is disturbed they become a bit odd at times. What shapes were the white things in the cells between capped brood? Are you sure they were not eggs which had undergone shape changes from desication etc? Another possibility is that your hive lid was slightly lifted for some reason and the bees were then 'frozen' slowly, as to me it seems unlikely that they would die so suddenly if hit by varroa. I have had nuc attacked by rats on a number of occasions. young rats (that have not been taught about bees yet) crawl into a hive with too little brood to be aggressive and eat brood. The bees then just crawl away. In my case they abscond. In yours I would think the cluster would move up into the honey higher up. Honey is quite a good heat sink, and warming the new living area may have been impossible leading to them freezing?? Just some ideas Keep well Garth --- Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Apis melifera capensis Grahamstown 800mm annual precipitation 6139 Eastern Cape South Africa Phone 27-0461-311663 On holiday for a few months Rhodes University Which means: working with bees 15 hours a day! Interests: Fliis and bees Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this post in no way reflect those of Rhodes University. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:48:17 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Re: Resistant Varroa Mites Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Michael Thanks for your posting. I can see where you are coming from. However, perhaps it is because of my computer background, that I try to pigeon hole everything. I am however minded to say, that beekeeping seems to me, to be based on some 'axioms' just like mathematics. They do not have the certainty of mathematical axioms, but they can largely be depended on. In fact swarm control and other manipulations are based on a knowledge of the effects of these 'axioms'. 1. Bees will fly back to their hive or if the hive is not there, will fly to the nearest hive. (Used in moving flying bees from one hive to another) 2. Bees moved more than 5 kilometres lose all ability to find their old location and will map to their new surroundings. (Used in Swarm Control, making increase and migratory beekeeping) 3. Nurse bees are attracted to unsealed brood. (used in covering a comb with bees and guaranteeing that the queen is not on the comb, even if she cannot be found, also in Demaree Swarm Control) 4. An egg in a queen cell will hatch in 3 days, will be sealed on the 9th day, and emerge on the 16th day. (Used in Swarm Control procedures) 5. If swarming impulse be in train, the swarm will emerge on the day the first queen cell is sealed. (Used in Swarm Control procedures) 6. The queen is fatter than the workers and will not pass through a correctly designed excluder. (Used in controlling where the queen may lay or finding a queen.) 7. Queenless bees will attempt to raise a queen from the eggs in worker cells. (Sometimes used in making increase) 8. Hive cohesion is maintained by the queen's ability to emit Queen Substance which is available to every bee in the hive. The amount of Queen Substance is directly proportional to the age and health of the queen. The likelihood of swarming or the possibility of laying workers is inversely proportional to the availability of Queen Substance. 9. Bees will respect a gap of approx 9mm beteeen two surfaces(used in hive design). 10. If bees are placed on an inclined plane, they will walk upwards (used in Shook Swarming and with the Tarranov Board Swarm procedures) I am sure that there are many more, that experienced beekeepers can come up with. The number of variables met in beekeeping are indeed legion, but I would prefer to have some list of rules which are largely dependable, rather than work on the basis that because there are so many variables, that little can be depended on. I suppose that at the end of the day, each beekeeper works with what he or she is most comfortable. Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland e mail cssl@iol.ie Tel + 353 1 289 5269 Fax + 353 1 289 9940 Latitude 53 Deg 16' 12.8" North Longitude 06 Deg 9' 44.9" West ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 08:59:06 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Iannuzzi Subject: Re: one did'nt make it In-Reply-To: <13F2D9A2DBA@warthog.ru.ac.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I'm always amused by bee people who write about mice (rats???) getting into their hives. A properly constructed bottom board has a deep side and a shallow one. If you run the shallow side up year round (yes, I know the old argument about but I don't think it's valid here), you'll never get mice into a living hive. Many beekeepers run the deep side up. Come cold weather, they have to put in entrance reducers--extra work and extra expense. I avoid both by running shallow sides about year 'round. Suum cuique! On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Garth wrote: > Hi > > As regards this, my gut feeling would be that something disturbed > your bees. > > In my area it never gets cold enough for bees not to be able to > defend themselves, but I have had rats come in and chew frames out > of weak/cold beehives. When their brood is disturbed they become a > bit odd at times. > > What shapes were the white things in the cells between capped brood? > Are you sure they were not eggs which had undergone shape changes > from desication etc? > > Another possibility is that your hive lid was slightly lifted for > some reason and the bees were then 'frozen' slowly, as to me it seems > unlikely that they would die so suddenly if hit by varroa. > > I have had nuc attacked by rats on a number of occasions. young rats > (that have not been taught about bees yet) crawl into a hive with too > little brood to be aggressive and eat brood. The bees then just crawl > away. In my case they abscond. In yours I would think the cluster > would move up into the honey higher up. Honey is quite a good heat > sink, and warming the new living area may have been impossible > leading to them freezing?? > > Just some ideas > > Keep well > > Garth > > --- > Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries > 15 Park Road Apis melifera capensis > Grahamstown 800mm annual precipitation > 6139 > Eastern Cape > South Africa Phone 27-0461-311663 > > On holiday for a few months Rhodes University > Which means: working with bees 15 hours a day! > Interests: Fliis and bees > Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this post in no way > reflect those of Rhodes University. > **John Iannuzzi, Ph.D. **38 years in apiculture **12 hives of Italian honeybees **At Historic Ellicott City, Maryland, 21042, U.S.A. (10 miles west of Baltimore, Maryland) [9772 Old Annapolis Rd - 410 730 5279] **"Forsooth there is some good in things evil For bees extract sweetness from the weed" -- Bard of Avon **Website: http://www.xmetric.com/honey **Email: jiannuzz@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us [1jan981031est] ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:48:15 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Bee and Beekeeper Brains Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi All I read with interest the posting under the above subject. From my limited study so far, it seems to me that bees do not have intelligence as we understand the term. Their relationship with the world which they perceive, is based on instinctive responses to stimuli. They do not reason as such, but can respond to a very great number of stimuli. It would for example appear intelligent, that a nurse bee feeds a larva in need of food, or that a queen larva will be given different food after the third day, to that given to a worker larva. However, scientific studies have determined, that the nurse bee's reaction is purely on the basis of a 'hunger' message or a 'status' message emitted by the larva, and not on the basis of any rational decision by the nurse bee. Similarly the queen will lay unfertilised eggs in drone cells based on the size of the cell as indicated to her by her antennae. She does not, as it were, use a ruler as we would have to do, but responds to a two value message - drone cell or not. No doubt, beekeepers better qualified than I, can give a better and/or a more informed dissertation on this subject. Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland e mail cssl@iol.ie Tel + 353 1 289 5269 Fax + 353 1 289 9940 Latitude 53 Deg 16' 12.8" North Longitude 06 Deg 9' 44.9" West ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 09:13:41 -0500 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" Organization: Independent non-profit research Subject: Re: MO approval & EPA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To all concerned: I contacted EPA Washington, D. C. by telephone who in turn refereed me to Philadelphia. My call was answered by a recorded message. I left my name, telephone number and the subject of my call: MO utilized for research purposes. Please rest assure that all the required mechanisms regarding the use of MO will be executed according to government regulations as quickly as I am able to communicate with EPA. I will post my findings on this subject to Bee-L promptly. Best regards. Dr. Rodriguez Virginia Beach, VA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 10:59:50 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Henry <104047.270@compuserve.com> Subject: One didn't make it. ID help please. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, If you didn't treat with a Menthol solution on paper on the top bars, I suspect Trachael mites. They continue to breed all winter, until they kill the hive. Regards, Henry ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 10:10:52 -0600 Reply-To: classicferm@fia.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ben Pollard Organization: Classic Fermentations Subject: Foundation replacement? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Start out by saying hello as I am new to the list and to beekeeping, been lurking about a month and the information on the list is great. I just purchased the hives and equipment from a local beekeepers family, he passed away last november. I got enough to make up 3 hives I think. I obtained 6 deeps, 6 mediums, 18 shallows, frames, a few bottom boards and stands, a few covers, a smoker, viel, an extractrator, and assorted other equipment. Hopefully I have enough to get off to a good start. My question is in regards to mites, the previous owner lost his bees two years in a row due to mites. Do I need to replace the foundation or can I make it mite free. I will have to replace some due to it being old and falling apart. My inclination is to replace all the foundation and scorch all the wood surfaces to assure it mite and disease free. I am just trying to assure I get off to a good, healthy start. Now I just have to convince the dog to share the backyard! Any help will be appreciated. Thanks -- Ben Pollard Classic Fermentations Homebrew Supply Amarillo, Texas classicferm@fia.net http://home.fia.net/~classicferm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 11:28:59 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: One didn't make it. ID help please. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I applaud all the diagnoses for aarchers' failed hive. The ability to diagnose a problem from half a continent away without even seeing the hive makes me long for similar beekeeping skills and/or psychic ability! A Archer, your best bet is to contact someone locally who can give you a hands on swag (Scientific wild assed guess) as to why your hive failed. Failing that, wait for a response from the bee lab where you sent samples and in the meantime, read up on current bee maladies. A suggested reference: _Honey_Bee_Pests,_Predators_and_Diseases_, latest edition by Roger Morse Aaron Morris ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 07:41:10 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Walter Patton Subject: Re: HARD SMOKE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Andy writes some interesting stuff and we should all listen up. This PR threat is real, and reading this thread makes me appreciate the problem only better. Maybe the bee industry should step up to the plate and take responsibility for more enforcement and more testing. Where can the requirements for testing mandated by the goverenment or anyone else. The big packers might imply that they are testing and I wonder is the All American mentallity of " Let them sue me I have Insurance and I have a bigger lawyer then they do" might dictate their decission about when to check and what tollerance levels are permitted.What are the FACTS about testing and acceptable levels? Maybe a US honey producer based board of Directors on the National HOney Board might mandate real industry standards regarding testing import and domestic honey. Walter " Lord, make my words as sweet as honey, for tommorrow I may have to eat them." ---------- > From: Andy Nachbaur > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: HARD SMOKE > Date: Wednesday, February 11, 1998 11:34 PM > > "Hard Smoke' is what beekeepers do when their bees get out of control. We > have all done it and sometimes in the heat of the battle a little fire > comes out and opp's some wings get flamed and a few handful of bees are > prematurely aged and sent off to a better life. > > > We all live with the fear that some chemical will get into someone's honey > and cause a problem for all. Of course you are right but at the same time > there are private interests outside of the honey production side of the > industry that are also concerned and do check bulk honey for adulteration > and farm chemicals, and they do find these cheerless and adulteration in > honey and because that honey is returned to the producer and any > information that is required by law to be passed on to the Pure Food & Drug > Administration and other government agencies is passed on, only a very > small amount of the total honey produced in the US is found to be > contaminated or adulterated as no honey producer can afford to not be able > to sell his crop. It is no different for imported honey which is also > checked by bulk purchasers and foreign honey is found to be contaminated, > adulterated, or with farm chemicals and it is also rejected from sale. This > also is a small percentage of the total amount imported because of the high > costs involved to those who are caught. So we do have some protection from > government and private interests checking our honey. The danger is that > down the road someone will put all these measures together in such a way as > to put fear in the minds of the public and we will suffer the loss of our > good public will for Honey. The danger is real and it would not necessarily > take some new contamination or adulteration to have a real PR problem, kind > of like our/your President with all his old girlfriends coming out of the > closet. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 07:43:25 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Walter Patton Subject: Re: FDA/EPA approval for MO treatment? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bruce Great posting and many thanks. . Walter Walter & Elisabeth Patton 808-964-5401 Hawaii Time ? Hale Lamalani B & B Hawaiian Honey House House of Heavenly Light Beekeepers & Honeypackers Bed & Breakfast and Honey Bee Dude Ranch www.hawaiihoney.com hihoney@hawaiihoney.com 27-703 A. Ka`ie`ie Rd., Papa`ikou, Hawaii 96781 " The Beehive, the Fountain of Youth and Health "+ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 12:05:40 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Elroy Rogers Subject: FGMO challenge MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi everyone on bee-l, After getting some attetion to my post last night I thought I would send out this challenge for the summer of 98. I think the time is right to prove or disaprove that FGMO works as a miticide for bees. In the sring I am going to setup 6 nucs in my back yard for testing FGMO and apistan, I will try to make them as equall as possible all 6 starting in single brood box and new queen. In 2 0f the colonies I will only use apistan and 2 for FGMO, the other 2 will be left untreated. When fall comes they will all be wrapped the same for wintering in Minnesota. The winters can be very cold here and it should be a good comparison test. I would like to see other beekeepers on this list try the same experiment with as many colonies as they can spare, we could exchange data on the list weekly or bimonthly. Good record keeping should be kept on all test colonies using a standard form for all that want to participate. There were several different methods of using FGMO posted so any form used should be generic enough to allow for different methods. As I stated on a earlier post neither government or any chemical company will ever come to our aid for testing mineral oil, simply because it can be bought at any grocery or drug store. So there has to just be an unselfish motive at work just to advance beekeeping in general for this to work. The good DR. Rodriguez has given his all on this method, I think its time the beekeepers themselves pickup the ball on this one. If we don't get started soon some big chemical company may ask the government to outlaw all other applications for mites. Don't forget what happened in Texas, the same could happen to us for using FGMO if we can't prove it works. Yep, I agree with the critic of FGMO time to put up or shut up, and as Rush Limbaugh I not one to shut up when I am right. Good luck in the new season Elroy ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:24:10 -0800 Reply-To: mister-t@clinic.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: EPA/FDA/scientists/big companies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The different threads on varroa and its treatment made me think of a similar treatment for mites, but tracheal. Crisco (TM) was accidently discovered to control tracheal mites. It was picked up by beekeepers. Once the use became fairly widespread and seemed to be effective, scientists trialed it and eventually even discovered why it works. The treatment has not been approved by the EPA or FDA as far as I know, but it is being used on a fairly large scale, at least here in Maine. No big companies tried to kill it. Scientists have not ignored it. But it took a while and only after it looked like it was effective. My guess is that FGMO is at the early stage that Tracheal mite treatment was when it was first discovered. If it follows the crisco path, it will probably be in the journals in a year or so. No big companies will fight it. Scientests will test it. And it will eventually either be approved by the EPA/FDA or ignored, as Crisco has been. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 08:19:02 -1000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Walter Patton Subject: Research Vehicle MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Group I'm sure I will regret this and I am a beekeeper and I enjoy pain with the chance for great sweetness. I have incorporate and have IRS approval for a non-profit corporation for honey bees. BEE ENTERPRISE EDUCATIONAL SERVICES, INCORPORATED ( B.E.E.S., INC.) is a community based, member managed, non-profit and Tax deductible corporation with exempt purposes of educational, scientific, and charitable. I am the Executive Administrator and we have members, a B.O.D. and Officers. I think B.E.E.S., INC. can do programs/ projects in states other then Hawaii. If any one has any ideas I would like to hear from you. If interested in supporting the efforts send money ( tax deductible ) and your mail address for more details. We will be having a web site soon. Walter ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 20:49:39 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rimantas Zujus Subject: Ancient beekeeping Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear travellers I got some new information for arriving to Lithuanian ancient bee = keeping museum. At last I succeeded to get a home telephone number of the Ancient = beekeeping museum supervisor (and a founder I suppose ) Mr. BRONIUS = KAZLAS. It is : 370-29-42871 ( town IGNALINA ). I spoke with him today. = Unfortunately, he don't speak English. He is happy to meet anyone in the = museum. He told me his new plan to create another museum something like = a Museum of Human Being Spiritual Values .=20 I would adwise better to contact to the Tourism Center in PALUSE, 3 km = besides the museum, tel. 370-29-52891 or e-mail anp@post.5ci.lt. ( Town = IGNALINA ). I phoned for the girls. I was said they are able to speak = English. One can get more information there. Everyone may arrive here with his car having any European road map. Our = roads are not very bad. If you have any linguistic problems I am ready to help you. Rimantas Zujus Kaunas LITHUANIA e-mail : zujus@isag.lei.lt http://www.online.lt/indexs.htm Latitude 55 Deg North Longitude 24 Deg East Joop Beetsma wrote >From the e-mail I learned about your museum. Could you please send me information about your museum (address, how to reach the museum by car, autobus, train; what do you present; other activities in the museum; etc) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:58:48 -0500 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" Organization: Independent non-profit research Subject: Re: Research Vehicle MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello to All. The idea of financial support for my research was not my idea. I regret having mentioned it to the list. Please do not send any financial contribution on my behalf to me or any other person or intitution. I am quite capable of procuring my own funds. Heartfelt thanks are hereby expressed to those that have expressed willingness to support my work. Best regards Dr. Pedro Rodriguez Virginia Beach, VA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:07:46 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: The Bee Works Subject: Re: One didn't make it. ID help please. In-Reply-To: <199802111613.JAA19340@wnmc-pub.affiliate.nortel.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 11 Feb 98 at 9:06, aarcher wrote: > When I opened the hive in beautiful weather yesterday I observed the > following: > Almost one full brood box (the upper box) full of honey and pollen > Bodies of a couple of hundred bees on bottom board (not thousands > as I might have expected from this booming hive if a sudden > catastrophe had occurred). Queen not visible or included in body > count. > Swarm or supercedure cells along the bottoms of many of the frames > (I would guess they were pretty much at the same stage of > development.) > Several combs in the lower box were damaged. (combs appeared to > have been "chewed on" almost down to the foundation in places . Well, so far we've had T-mites and Varroa mites. I cannot subscribe to either of those and would like to add queen failure to the suggestions. The symtoms are classic, Queen cells along the bottom of the frames chewed foundation where the bees were trying to get wax for cells. I bet a dollar to a doughnut the cells were black or dark, usually a sign of an under fed hive trying to produce wax while no flow was on. This would explain the lack of bees. Hopelessly queenless bees will abscond leaving only the young this explains the half emerged bees, not enough warmth from a diminished cluster. > There were many of the above mentioned white grains in the 'empty' > cells in the brood area. I noticed a clear liquid mixed in with > Also the bees that were alive in survivor hive (#2), had lost a > great deal of their Italian color (not much yellow left). Quite possibly Nosema. I have noticed in the past a black greasey look about bees suffering from that, but a sample is the best way to go!! > By the way, the bee hive that is no more, was installed in my > standard Lang hive; the survivor was installed in a home built TBH. > Still find the TBH preferable to work with (I have a bit of a bad > back too). No Comment, apart from saying, if the queens time is 'up' it doesn't really matter what hive she's in. A new queen every two years MAXIMUM would prevent this!!!! ******************************************* The Bee Works, 9 Progress Dr, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1 Phone/fax 705-326-7171 David Eyre, Owner. http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks e-mail ******************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:07:47 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: The Bee Works Subject: Queens. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Some time ago there was a thread on this list dealing with 'Where to buy Queens from?' It dealt with the usual, early season, etc. I made the point that perhaps tradition and geographical position of the breeders had dictated the methods of beekeeping to it's detriment. In other words, bringing Palm trees from Florida to the cold North, and expecting them to flourish was asking too much. I questioned 'aclimatisation and area breeding' but got very little discussion! I would like to raise the question again, especially in light of a letter received from a client of mine. > bees are doing well we have had only a couple of 32 degree nights > and they are working like crazy a little surprised at our queen > i guess no one told her that it doesn't really get cold down here > for long in november i redistributed the remaining full supers so > i had one to a hive plus an empty super just in case. however, the > hive has never slowed down i removed apistan strips today, a > couple of days late, but it has been raining off and on for the last > week. much to my surprise the hive is still booming and even more > of a surprise was a FULL second super added a third, probably not > wise but i will keep an eye on the weather and if it turns bitter i > will remove it to help with heat conservation This from Florida. A couple of points (before the grumps get going) I questioned Apistan with supers on. I realise this is only one queen, and we need more to evaluate this trait. If anyone wishes to correspond with my client his address and coperation are available on request. My point? It would appear taking Queens from the North down South has decided advantages!!! ******************************************* The Bee Works, 9 Progress Dr, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1 Phone/fax 705-326-7171 David Eyre, Owner. http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks e-mail ******************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:11:05 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: FGMO challenge In-Reply-To: <34BA7794.349B@starpoint.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:05 PM 1/12/98 -0800, you wrote: Elroy Wrote: > >I thought I would >send out this challenge for the summer of 98. I think the time is right >to prove or disaprove that FGMO works as a miticide for bees. > >In the sring I am going to setup 6 nucs in my back yard for testing >FGMO and apistan, I will try to make them as equall as possible all 6 >starting in single brood box and new queen. In 2 0f the colonies I will >only use apistan and 2 for FGMO, the other 2 will be left untreated. >When fall comes they will all be wrapped the same for wintering in >Minnesota. The winters can be very cold here and it should be a good >comparison test. STATISTICAL CONDSIDERATIONS: This is a great idea, but you need a Standard Method if you intend to compare results. As a first consideration, I offer these first step issues: You should have at least 3 colonies per treatment, not 2. One colony represents an unreplicated experiment. Two provides a bit of replication, but what do you do if one of the two shows a response and the other does not? Three provides a tie-breaker (1 of 3, 2 of 3, or 3 of 3 colonies) show --. One of two doesn't demonstrate anything. Depending on the inherent variability in the system, even 3 colonies per treatment is probably on the small side, but 3 is far better than 2. We often used 10-12 per treatment, but that is probably more than most can spare for this test. However, with enough participants, 9 colonies per participant will probably be sufficient. You will have to test your colonies in some quantitative way for mite infestation levels BEFORE you start the tests. You should also periodically monitor them during the conduct of the test, and at the end (or when any of them checks out from mites). Drift will be a problem, so hive placement is an issue. You don't want untreated bees re-infesting treated colonies. Also, you shouldn't bunch the the hives up in groups. For example, we know that heat may reduce the number of mites. So, if all of your controls are in the shade and all of your Apistan or FGMO hives are in the sun, you may get "mite control" from the heat of the sun (but think it was from the chemical treatment - Apistan or FGMO). You also should choose 9 colonies of similar strength and you then have to randomly assign your initial colonies to each of the 3 treatments (Control, Apistan, FMGO) for statistical validity. Let's say you pick 9 colonies. Number the hives 1 through 9. Now, put 9 slips of paper into a hat, each with a number from 1 - 9. Mix them up, then draw them out. Let us say you pull the numbers in this order 2, 7, 3, 4, 9, 6, 1, 5, 8. We will then assign the first number drawn to FMGO, the second to Apistan, the third to the Control, and continue. That allows us to randomnly assign our 9 colonies to the three test groups: FMGO Hives 2,4,1 Apistan Hives 7,9,5 Control Hives 3,6,8 Why do this? Again, this is a basic premise of setting up a statistically valid experiment. If we simply pick colonies, we may subconsciously pick the colonies based on some bias (e.g., worst case, you pick the three strongest colonies for the Control hives and assign the weakest to FMGO or vice versa). The weak colonies may be weak because they have more mites to begin with. For those of you with computers (everyone on this list), you can get your computer or calculator to generate random numbers (but the hat is more fun). If your colonies vary greatly in strength, you should be sure that each of the 3 "treatment" groups has a similar array of hives by strength. Again, the control would have a strong, medium, and weak hive, the Apistan strip a strong, medium, and weak hive, and the FMGO a strong, medium, and weak hive. However, it is simpler to start with similar strength hives. > >I would like to see other beekeepers on this list try the same >experiment with as many colonies as they can spare, we could exchange >data on the list weekly or bimonthly. Good record keeping should be kept >on all test colonies using a standard form for all that want to >participate. There were several different methods of using FGMO posted >so any form used should be generic enough to allow for different >methods. >Good luck in the new season > >Elroy > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 11:32:44 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: HARD SMOKE Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Andy Nachbauer wrote (in one of usual long tomes that I enjoy so much): >"Hard Smoke' is what beekeepers do when their bees get out of control. We >have all done it and sometimes in the heat of the battle a little fire >comes out and opp's some wings get flamed and a few handful of bees are >prematurely aged and sent off to a better life. > >Today in many places in the bee world the varroa mite continues to cause >beekeepers to Hard Smoke. That is the only part of his long message that I would like to address. I believe I mentioned before on this list that bees in a heavily varroa infested colony can be quite mean. One technique suggested to me was to use a level tablespoon of ammonium nitrate (yes, the same fertilizer used in the Oklahoma City bombing) mixed in with the burlap in the smoker. I have tried that on a couple of occasions and found it to be most effective. However, one must be careful and not breathe the noxious fumes. I also used this technique when being photographed smoking a hive. That way the picture so obtained clearly indicates that smoke has been used. Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 893-2838 (UCSB office) Ecol., Evol., & Marine Biology (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Univ. of Calif., Santa Barbara (805) 963-8508 (home office & FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 *********************************************************************** * "Discovery is to see what everyone else has seen, * * but to think what no one else has thought." * * --- Albert Szent-Gyorgyi * *********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 12:25:58 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Andy Nachbaur (by way of Andy Nachbaur )" Subject: Jan Honey Market USA Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" NATIONAL HONEY MARKET NEWS NO: I U. S. DEPARTENT OF AGRICULTURE Feburary 6, 1998 AGRICILTURAL MARKETING SERVICE FRUIT AND VEGEGTABLE DIVISION 2015 SOUTH I ST STREET - RM 4 YAKimA, WA 98903-22-31 PHONE: (500) 575-2494 US HONEY MARKET FOR THE MONTH OF JANUARY, 1998 IN VOLUMES OF 10,000 POUNDS OR GREATER Prices paid to beekeepers for extracted, unprocessed honey in major producing states by packers, handlers and other large users, cents per pound, f. o. b. or delivered nearby, containers exchanged or returned, prompt delivery and payment unless otherwise stated. ARKANSAS - Soybean, extra light amber, 67cents CALIFORNIA - Alfalfa, extra light amber, 63 cents - Clover, white, 80 cents - Mixed Flowers, extra light amber, 60 - 63 cents - Mixed Flowers, light amber, 55 - 60 cents - Orange, white, 80 cents - Sage, white, 72 - 80 cents COLORADO - Alfalfa, extra light amber, 71 cents FLORIDA - Brazilian Pepper, light amber, 60 cents - Brazilian Pepper, amber (non-table), 62 cents - Saw Palmetto, extra light amber, 78 cents . Saw Palmetto, light amber, 75 cents IDAHO - Alfalfa, extra light amber, 70 cents - Alfalfa, light amber, 67 cents - Clover, white, 76 cents INDIANA - Atjttiinti Wildflowers, dark amber, 83 cents - Wildflowers, medium amber, 84 cents LOUISIANA - Chinese Tallow, light amber, 60 cents MICHIGAN - Blueberry Blossom, medium amber, 80 cents - Knapweed, light amber, 80 cents - Spring Blossom, medium amber, 80 cents MINNESOTA - Clover, white, 70 cents MONTANA - Alfalfa, white, 72 - 74 cents - Clover, white, 68 - 75 cents NEBRASKA - Clover, white, 68 - 82 cents N. DAKOTA - Clover, white, 68 - 73 cents - Clover, extra light amber, 63 cents OREGON - Blackberry, extra light amber, 70 cents - Clover, extra white, 73 cents S. DAKOTA - Buckwheat, amber & dark amber, 70 - 85 cents - Clover, white, 68 - 70 cents - Clover, light amber, 85 cents WASHINGTON - Clover, white, 68 cents (small lot) - Clover, amber, 55 cents (small lot) - Snowberry, white, 70 cents Prices paid to Canadian beekeepers for unprocessed bulk honey by packers and importers in U.S. currency, F.O.B. shipping point, containers included unless otherwise stated. Duty and crossing charges extra. Cents per pound. MANITOBA - Floral source unknown, extra light amber, 75 cents ONTARIO - Clover, white, 74 1/2cents Prices paid to importers for bulk honey, duty paid, containers included, cents per pound ex-dock or point of entry unless otherwise stated. EAST COAST ARGENTINA - Clover/Alfalfa, white, 67 cents - Mixed Flowers, extra white, 64 cents - Mixed Flowers, white, 61 - 64 1/4 cents - Mixed Flowers, extra light amber, 61- 64 1/4 cents - Mixed Flowers, fight amber, 60 3/4 - 61 3/4 cents - Mixed Flowers, amber, 60 3/4 cents VIETNAM - Mixed Flowers, light amber, 61 cents CALIFORNIA BEESWAX MARKET SITUATION --- JANUARY, 1998 (unbleached, raw beeswax, delivered to handiers's warehouse) The wax market was extremely slow during January as beekeepers were busy checking bees, adding additional feed and getting them ready to go into Almonds. Handlers were not anxious to purchase any large quantities anyway, as demand for finished products was also very light. Prices being offered to producers were about steady for both light colored and dark colored wax. Prices in California for light wax ranged from $1.65 - 1.80. Dark colored wax was being purchased at $1.55 - 1.60 per pound. REPRINTED WITHOUT PERMISSION USE AT OWN RISK ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:30:35 CST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Phil Wood Subject: Re: FGMO challenge In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.19980212120600.4f872cf0@selway.umt.edu>; from "Jerry J Bromenshenk" at Feb 12, 98 2:11 pm Jerry raises many good points. I think though, that before we design the study, we shouldn't use "3 as a tie-breaker." Obviously in aggregate over apiaries, we can still find the effect with 2 (or 1) per condition. Obviously we need to use some data (albeit sketchy) to estimate the statistical power of the design. We don't have any great data as to how no-treatment differs from Apistan/fgmo (I suspect it's a huge effect), but of course the more interesting question is comparison of the apistan and FGMO groups. I suspect we'll need a lot more than 3. If anyone can hazard guesses of what kind of variability we can expect within and across bee-yards and some general guesses as to what reasonable assays are of Apistan and FGMO, I'd be happy to do the power analysis as my small way of contributing to the general good. Interestingly, some other statistical conditions may arise if there's an interaction between baseline level of infestation and efficacy of treatment, but we'll leave that as a possible "surprise" effect- OK? For what it's worth- Phil Wood wood@psysparc.psyc.missouri.edu > > STATISTICAL CONDSIDERATIONS: > > This is a great idea, but you need a Standard Method if you intend to > compare results. As a first consideration, I offer these first step issues: > > You should have at least 3 colonies per treatment, not 2. One colony > represents an unreplicated experiment. Two provides a bit of replication, > but what do you do if one of the two shows a response and the other does > not? Three provides a tie-breaker (1 of 3, 2 of 3, or 3 of 3 colonies) > show --. One of two doesn't demonstrate anything. > > Depending on the inherent variability in the system, even 3 colonies per > treatment is probably on the small side, but 3 is far better than 2. We > often used 10-12 per treatment, but that is probably more than most can > spare for this test. However, with enough participants, 9 colonies per > participant will probably be sufficient. > > You will have to test your colonies in some quantitative way for mite > infestation levels BEFORE you start the tests. You should also > periodically monitor them during the conduct of the test, and at the end > (or when any of them checks out from mites). > > Drift will be a problem, so hive placement is an issue. You don't want > untreated bees re-infesting treated colonies. > > Also, you shouldn't bunch the the hives up in groups. For example, we know > that heat may reduce the number of mites. So, if all of your controls are > in the shade and all of your Apistan or FGMO hives are in the sun, you may > get "mite control" from the heat of the sun (but think it was from the > chemical treatment - Apistan or FGMO). > > You also should choose 9 colonies of similar strength and you then have to > randomly assign your initial colonies to each of the 3 treatments (Control, > Apistan, FMGO) for statistical validity. Let's say you pick 9 colonies. > Number the hives 1 through 9. Now, put 9 slips of paper into a hat, each > with a number from 1 - 9. Mix them up, then draw them out. Let us say you > pull the numbers in this order 2, 7, 3, 4, 9, 6, 1, 5, 8. We will then > assign the first number drawn to FMGO, the second to Apistan, the third to > the Control, and continue. > > > That allows us to randomnly assign our 9 colonies to the three test groups: > > FMGO Hives 2,4,1 > Apistan Hives 7,9,5 > Control Hives 3,6,8 > > > Why do this? Again, this is a basic premise of setting up a statistically > valid experiment. If we simply pick colonies, we may subconsciously pick > the colonies based on some bias (e.g., worst case, you pick the three > strongest colonies for the Control hives and assign the weakest to FMGO or > vice versa). The weak colonies may be weak because they have more mites to > begin with. > > > For those of you with computers (everyone on this list), you can get your > computer or calculator to generate random numbers (but the hat is more fun). > > If your colonies vary greatly in strength, you should be sure that each of > the 3 "treatment" groups has a similar array of hives by strength. Again, > the control would have a strong, medium, and weak hive, the Apistan strip a > strong, medium, and weak hive, and the FMGO a strong, medium, and weak > hive. However, it is simpler to start with similar strength hives. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 16:27:57 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Bartlett Subject: FGMO MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit And on we go with the FGMO! I understand all the comments about what if this and what if that. I have tried most of the new things to get rid of or at least control the mites. They have not been successful with me. I looked at my hives yesterday. It was 56 degrees (F). I opened the first hive and tried to look for brood. It was overcast and the bees did not want me in there. After several stings to the hands I put the hive back together without seeing the brood. I could have used more smoke, but I did not want to disturb the bees too much, since it was going to get cold again. But what I did see was something that I have not seen for 5 or 6 years. There were more bees in that hive then I have seen in years. And yes I did use FGMO. A lot of people clamoring about something is not going to make it true or safe. But one thing is very, very clear to me! This internet and in particular this site is going to determine if FGMO succeeds. Not the scientists, not the colleges, not the researchers, not the FDA, not the EPA, not the chemical companies or even Dr. Rodriquez. Was I gritting my teeth as I write this? YES!!! We have a tool here that allows hundreds of us to get together and exchange ideas. We would still be years away from finding out about FGMO whether it works or not without the internet. When enough people try this and post here we will find out. I LOVE THIS THING!!!! And this works for more things than just beekeeping! 59 degrees today and more bees flying then I have seen in years! In the past several years I had dead colonies by this time of year. billy bee ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 16:38:28 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: FGMO challenge In-Reply-To: <9802121930.AA28357@psysparc.psyc.missouri.edu.psyc.missour i.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:30 PM 2/12/98 CST, you wrote: >Jerry raises many good points. >I think though, that before we design the study, we shouldn't use "3 as >a tie-breaker." Obviously in aggregate over apiaries, we can still find >the effect with 2 (or 1) per condition. I disagree. 3 is not ideal, but we have found within site variability to a critical factor. You can't address that as an aggregate over apiaries. Mites respond to cumulative stress factors at a site. Those will not be the same over a group of sites. AND WE HAVE THE DATA TO PROVE THAT. We have tested hundreds of colonies over two decades for the affects of everything from pesticides to pollutants to mites. Your aggregate procedure is better fitted for some other toxic agents, but not for these scenarios. > >Obviously we need to use some data (albeit sketchy) to >estimate the statistical power of the design. We don't have any great >data as to how no-treatment differs from Apistan/fgmo (I suspect it's a >huge effect), but of course the more interesting question is comparison >of the apistan and FGMO groups. I suspect we'll need a lot more than 3. I agree, 3 is minimal. But 3 gives us something that may work. Anything less is a waste of effort. >If anyone can hazard guesses of what kind of variability we can expect >within and across bee-yards and some general guesses as to what >reasonable assays are of Apistan and FGMO, I'd be happy to do the power >analysis as my small way of contributing to the general good. Crank away, the numbers appear below. > I don't have to guess. You will find on a basis of 7-12 colonies, that most colony response data (population size, productivity, flight activity, etc.) will fall in the range of 25-35% CV (or RSD) for health, unstressed colonies, at a single site. With even mild stress (pesticides, pollution, mites) that number will increase to near 50%. Under heavy stress, it will often exceed 100%. I can cite the publications, if you wish. We also just finished 2 1/2 yrs of data processing for groups of 7 colonies at 4 sites. We also conducted a mite research project, looking at both TM and varroa mites in 48 colonies over 3 yrs. >Interestingly, some other statistical conditions may arise if there's an >interaction between baseline level of infestation and efficacy of >treatment, but we'll leave that as a possible "surprise" effect- OK? Why? > >For what it's worth- >Phil Wood >wood@psysparc.psyc.missouri.edu > >> >> STATISTICAL CONDSIDERATIONS: >> >> This is a great idea, but you need a Standard Method if you intend to >> compare results. As a first consideration, I offer these first step issues: >> >> You should have at least 3 colonies per treatment, not 2. One colony >> represents an unreplicated experiment. Two provides a bit of replication, >> but what do you do if one of the two shows a response and the other does >> not? Three provides a tie-breaker (1 of 3, 2 of 3, or 3 of 3 colonies) >> show --. One of two doesn't demonstrate anything. >> >> Depending on the inherent variability in the system, even 3 colonies per >> treatment is probably on the small side, but 3 is far better than 2. We >> often used 10-12 per treatment, but that is probably more than most can >> spare for this test. However, with enough participants, 9 colonies per >> participant will probably be sufficient. >> >> You will have to test your colonies in some quantitative way for mite >> infestation levels BEFORE you start the tests. You should also >> periodically monitor them during the conduct of the test, and at the end >> (or when any of them checks out from mites). >> >> Drift will be a problem, so hive placement is an issue. You don't want >> untreated bees re-infesting treated colonies. >> >> Also, you shouldn't bunch the the hives up in groups. For example, we know >> that heat may reduce the number of mites. So, if all of your controls are >> in the shade and all of your Apistan or FGMO hives are in the sun, you may >> get "mite control" from the heat of the sun (but think it was from the >> chemical treatment - Apistan or FGMO). >> >> You also should choose 9 colonies of similar strength and you then have to >> randomly assign your initial colonies to each of the 3 treatments (Control, >> Apistan, FMGO) for statistical validity. Let's say you pick 9 colonies. >> Number the hives 1 through 9. Now, put 9 slips of paper into a hat, each >> with a number from 1 - 9. Mix them up, then draw them out. Let us say you >> pull the numbers in this order 2, 7, 3, 4, 9, 6, 1, 5, 8. We will then >> assign the first number drawn to FMGO, the second to Apistan, the third to >> the Control, and continue. >> >> >> That allows us to randomnly assign our 9 colonies to the three test groups: >> >> FMGO Hives 2,4,1 >> Apistan Hives 7,9,5 >> Control Hives 3,6,8 >> >> >> Why do this? Again, this is a basic premise of setting up a statistically >> valid experiment. If we simply pick colonies, we may subconsciously pick >> the colonies based on some bias (e.g., worst case, you pick the three >> strongest colonies for the Control hives and assign the weakest to FMGO or >> vice versa). The weak colonies may be weak because they have more mites to >> begin with. >> >> >> For those of you with computers (everyone on this list), you can get your >> computer or calculator to generate random numbers (but the hat is more fun). >> >> If your colonies vary greatly in strength, you should be sure that each of >> the 3 "treatment" groups has a similar array of hives by strength. Again, >> the control would have a strong, medium, and weak hive, the Apistan strip a >> strong, medium, and weak hive, and the FMGO a strong, medium, and weak >> hive. However, it is simpler to start with similar strength hives. > > Jerry J. Bromenshenk, Ph.D. Director, DOE/EPSCoR & Montana Organization for Research in Energy The University of Montana-Missoula Missoula, MT 59812-1002 E-Mail: jjbmail@selway.umt.edu Tel: 406-243-5648 Fax: 406-243-4184 http://www.umt.edu/biology/more http://www.umt.edu/biology/bees ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 16:52:47 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Curtis Seyfried Subject: Re: Ancient beekeeping Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The post on Ancient Beekeeping in Lithuania brought this up from my memory to my current attention. I currently buy my honey from Myron Surmac, Jr. and used to from his father, Myron, SR., who died a few years back in his ninties. Myron SR. was a Ukranian immigrant who started Surma Ukranian Music and Book Store in NYC, and his apiry in NJ. I have bought honey, propolis and the best golden beeswax and pollen I have ever seen from them for the past 20 years. Once in a while he would have an unfiltered raspberry flower honey, which was incedible especially with all the pollen, propolis and other wonderful stuff mixed in it still. Peace and Good Health, (;->) Curtis Seyfried cseyfrie@mail.interport.net , curtisseyfri@valise.com CS Enterprises POB. 110675 Brooklyn, NY. 11211 (718) 599-2458 ======================== B.Sc. - Environmental & Life Sciences, MA. - Environmental Policy Studies and Analysis - SUNYESC, 1992-97 Diplomas - New York University - Paralegal Studies, 1995 Building Construction Project Management, 1988. Consultant and Educator, promoting local economic growth through the formation of cooperative businesses, revolving around food waste composting, local/regional high value agriculture, and cooperative marketing. Waste-to-fertilizer-to-food-to jobs. Science, Technology, Legal & Alternative Medical Research. Waste Reduction Studies & Audits. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:26:37 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Andy Nachbaur (by way of Andy Nachbaur )" Subject: Re: HARD SMOKE Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:34 AM 2/12/98 -0800, you wrote: >"Hard Smoke' is what beekeepers do when their bees get out of control. More Hard Smoke, in no way was I suggesting the bee industry needs more government regulation from any perspective as it is my point of view that is that what we have now as poor as the government program is has demonstrated the ability to detect problems and is working only because the market place (honey packers) are doing their own inspections and this includes the major packers in the US, all two of them and many who are not major including even a few producers. It is true that sometimes someone has to drop a dime on the government inspectors to get any action on imported honey but when they do if a problem is found it is dealt with in the same way as when a problem is found in domestic honey. That is the way it is and should be. To increase government inspection on honey will or could point the evil eye on the natural contamination the has existed in honey since the year one including the honey from the highest mountains in Hawaii that is no cleaner then the honey from the cotton fields of Texas, California, or Arizona when you look a ppb (parts per billion). At these levels of detection or even at higher levels honey like most all things we eat may have as many undesirables as the good magical things we all like to trade on. More on Varroa and a side of the so called resistance story that may never be affirmed by those who know the truth and have the bucks ($$$$$$$$$), our bucks. I have added a few **** to draw your attention to what is going on or to my added comments. ------------------------------ripped off the news group---------------------------------------------------------- >From mishap@aol.com Tue Feb 10 04:54:29 1998 Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Varroa Mite Resistance >Fluvalinate strips are available in the US -- it's called Apistan >If your section 18 reference is refering to Miticur, it was removed from >the market after a 'bad' batch caused a bee kill - the mfg. who bought ( but >did not develop) the manufacturing rights, did not want the liability and >withdrew the product. **** >Current work is with a Formic Acid delivery system. **** (***remember this) >GBee >gbees@worldnet.att.net Apistan Section 18 strips were on the market in 1989, they had the registered EPA code 109302 "fluvalinate" as in 1983. Since 1989 the formula for fluvalinate has been changed. Also the plastic delivery system was also changed. The current Apistan strips now have a different formulation and different plastic. The 1989 Apistan strips were tested here in Florida by the ARS USDA research team in 10/1997, * those strips killed the so-called fluvalinate resistant varroa mites very well!!!! **** (think about this) The miticur strips have and/or had problems,, right after manufacturing the amitraz break down into three compounds, one is toxic to bees ,,one is carcinogenic,,one is not now know to cause problems. The miticur or apivar (amitraz) strips would have to have an expiration date for usage. Placed into colonies before they become to toxic to the bees. More news to come,, Sincerely,,,, David A Miksa ***( Editors note: David's beautiful sister in law is married to my x wife's son and they are beekeepers in Arizona. They just had a new addition to their work force she is named Andi, and all is well. ) ttul, the Old Drone (c)Permission is given to copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:29:09 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: MO approval & EPA Comments: To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net In-Reply-To: <34E30394.D1B7389A@norfolk.infi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:13 AM 2/12/98 -0500, you wrote: Hi Dr. Drone, Make the check out to "cash" they are having problems with their DNC account. Don't listen to all those big numbers, a $50,000.00 donation should be enough unless you really want a Presidential endorsement. They have been know to call right back the next day with a $100,000.00 donation. If you have any drug connections they will also let you sleep with Hillary in Lincoln's bed so it is rumored. Of course I am speaking with a forked tongue, but don't be surprised if they want some non refundable "ernest" money up front before giving you the time of day. This guy Ernest has got to be one rich dude. Good Luck, ttul the OLd Drone BTW, years ago when a few beekeepers were trying hard to get the pesticide indemnification bill passed it was held up one year in a committee because the beekeepers refused to buy tickets to a cocktail party in Hawaii. I consulted with some friends in the political business and they had a good laugh and told me this was the cheapest legislation that they had ever heard of and buy the tickets at once. But the beekeepers stood their ground and would not pay and in fact turned the congress man in and that's when our bill got lost in committee for a year since the one asking was the vice chairman. The bill finally passed and returned millions to beekeepers who had lost bees to pesticides. Congress got their revenge when they canceled all beekeeper programs and made beekeeping into a non farm business. >To all concerned: > I contacted EPA Washington, D. C. by telephone who in turn >refereed me to Philadelphia. My call was answered by a recorded >message. I left my name, telephone number and the subject of my call: >MO utilized for research purposes. Please rest assure that all the >required mechanisms regarding the use of MO will be executed according >to government regulations as quickly as I am able to communicate with >EPA. I will post my findings on this subject to Bee-L promptly. >Best regards. >Dr. Rodriguez >Virginia Beach, VA > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:31:34 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Garry Libby Subject: Worcester County(MA) Irradiation of hive bodies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01BD37DC.10618040" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BD37DC.10618040 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This info was forwarded to Me from a Worcester County(MA)Beekeepers = Assn.Member Here is what appeared in the Winter Issue of The Apiary News. Note that = no date has been set and that the contact is Don Sandstrom at (978) = 562-2632. 1998 AFB Program Begins Now Gama radiation at a dose of 1.5 Mrad is a highly effective method of = making hive equipment contaminated with AFB spores fit for use again. = This also allows you to reuse all drawn comb as well as the wooden ware. The bees must be destroyed after you have determined that your hive has = been infected with AFB. Treat comb for wax moths as usual, but remove = any moth crystals (paradichlorobenzene) prior to bringing the boxes to = our storage facility. Once this has been done, all infected equipment = must be placed in plastic bags and then in corrugated boxes. These = corrugated boxes must measure 24" x 18" x 10". Each box can hold: one = hive body, frames, comb and inner cover, OR one honey super, frames, = comb, bottom board and outer cover, OR anything else that will fit = without distorting the box. Radiation treatment will be performed by Isomedix of Northboro. We = should be prepared to process 80 or more of these boxes to keep the = price to a minimum $6.50 per corrugated box. However, the price has not = been set as yet and can not be Guaranteed. Corrugated boxes of the proper size (J24) and packing instructions will = be available at the January, February, and March monthly meetings as = well as a map showing where our storage facility is located. Based on = the level of interest, times and dates will be established to allow = those individuals participating in this program to bring their = prepackaged materials for storage. Contact Don Sandstrom at (978) 562-2632 NOW if you are interested in = processing any equipment this year. Garry Libby Boston,USA LibBEE@msn.com if con is the opposite of pro, is congress the opposite of progress? ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BD37DC.10618040 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This info was forwarded to Me from a = Worcester=20 County(MA)Beekeepers Assn.Member
 
 
Here is what appeared in the Winter Issue of The Apiary News.  = Note=20 that no date has been set and that the contact is Don Sandstrom at (978) = 562-2632.

1998 AFB Program Begins Now

Gama radiation at a = dose of=20 1.5 Mrad is a highly effective method of making hive equipment = contaminated with=20 AFB spores fit for use again.  This also allows you to reuse all = drawn comb=20 as well as the wooden ware.

The bees must be destroyed after you=20 have  determined that your hive has been infected with AFB. Treat = comb for=20 wax moths as usual, but remove any moth crystals (paradichlorobenzene) = prior to=20 bringing the boxes to our storage facility.  Once this has been = done, all=20 infected equipment must be placed in plastic bags and then in corrugated = boxes.  These corrugated boxes must measure 24" x 18" x=20 10".  Each box can hold: one hive body, frames, comb and inner = cover,=20 OR one honey super, frames, comb, bottom board and outer cover, OR = anything else=20 that will fit without distorting the box.

Radiation treatment = will be=20 performed by Isomedix of Northboro.  We should be prepared to = process 80 or=20 more of these boxes to keep the price to a minimum $6.50 per corrugated=20 box.  However, the price has not been set as yet and can not be=20 Guaranteed.

Corrugated boxes of the proper size (J24) and packing = instructions will be available at the January, February, and March = monthly=20 meetings as well as a map showing where our storage facility is = located. =20 Based on the level of interest, times and dates will be established to = allow=20 those individuals participating in this program to bring their = prepackaged=20 materials for storage.

Contact Don Sandstrom at (978) 562-2632 = NOW if you=20 are interested in processing any equipment this = year.

 
 

Garry Libby
Boston,USA
LibBEE@msn.com
if con is the = opposite of=20 pro,
is congress the opposite of = progress? 
------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BD37DC.10618040-- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:12:36 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: Neurons or Morons ? In-Reply-To: <19980211.095851.3462.4.awneedham@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Al Needham wrote: > Total Neurons Bee=1 million Beekeeper=100 billion Rat=150 million > > The jury is still out on who will be the last survivor on this > planet we, the one above with the largest quantity of > neurons, are rapidly destroying. > > My bet is on one critter not mentioned - the lowly cockroach. > I think he/she has been here much longer than the above. > Wonder how many neurons he/she has ? > > Or is it " morons" ? :-) > > Hi Al, That was very well put.You would think that we would be smarter than destroying our own home. My vote is for the cockroach. His/Her impact on the Earth is much less damaging. Our problem is choosing this or that pestiside to kill ourselves. Your right," morons" Have a great Day Roy ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:59:11 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: Essential oil In-Reply-To: <032565A8.0071CD8D.00@famarnotesba.famar.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Juan Manuel Reil wrote: > One year ago all beekeepers were talking about the use of essential oils in > Varroa control and now they are all talking about FGMO. > What hapen with essential oil?. it doesn't work in mite control?.Is > somebody using it?.How? What rate?. > Thank you > Hi All, I have been using essential oil mix for over a year.They are also being tested at Ohio State at the U level. It has worked for me.No apistan used last year , except for checking for Varroa on a few hives. I will have a better idea on how the fall treatment worked , when I get into my hives after the rain stops.Bee flight a week ago looked good. That means very little , when it comes to Varroa.I have over 100 hives at home to check. I'm at a 5-6% loss right now. The moisture level in some of the hives has caused problems.I did not have moisture excapes on all of the hives. Before we think that, this is the fix. We need more hard data than just observation.You can kill your bees with essential oils.Egg laying of the queen is being checked and more. We need more research. I will say that you can look at some of last years ABJ's and see what they did with essential oils.There are different oils that have been tried.They are not all the same. So you can get into trouble in a rush.The best thing to do is wait for the papers to come out. Vaporization is complex and varried to the enviornment.We are talking about a few drops to the quart then less that a ml per hive. It is still to early to get excited about. My oldest son recieved his degree in Chemistry from the U of Wash last june and used some input from him. I would not go off like a loose cannon. Good science takes time. Best Regards Roy ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 19:22:13 -0500 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" Organization: Independent non-profit research Subject: [Fwd: Research Vehicle] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------8C7D780F4F096856EE6A7CC4" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------8C7D780F4F096856EE6A7CC4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------8C7D780F4F096856EE6A7CC4 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-ID: <34E34668.5EC1F619@norfolk.infi.net> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:58:48 -0500 From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Organization: Independent non-profit research X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Discussion of Bee Biology Subject: Re: Research Vehicle References: <199802121821.IAA23197@lehua.ilhawaii.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello to All. The idea of financial support for my research was not my idea. I regret having mentioned it to the list. Please do not send any financial contribution on my behalf to me or any other person or intitution. I am quite capable of procuring my own funds. Heartfelt thanks are hereby expressed to those that have expressed willingness to support my work. Best regards Dr. Pedro Rodriguez Virginia Beach, VA --------------8C7D780F4F096856EE6A7CC4-- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 20:45:00 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Iannuzzi Subject: Re: FGMO challenge In-Reply-To: <34BA7794.349B@starpoint.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I'm very amused about all the hullabaloo about whether FGMO controls t-mite or not, about all the tests being undertaken, etc., ad nauseam. I have been using the equivalent, vegetable oil, ever since the T-mite swam the Rio Grande, as I've written before. Am very happy with it. I won't post this info any more nor will I read any more messages about FGMO. Life is just to short to bother... Anyway, thanks for reading this. Cheers. **John Iannuzzi, Ph.D. **38 years in apiculture **12 hives of Italian honeybees **At Historic Ellicott City, Maryland, 21042, U.S.A. (10 miles west of Baltimore, Maryland) [9772 Old Annapolis Rd - 410 730 5279] **"Forsooth there is some good in things evil For bees extract sweetness from the weed" -- Bard of Avon **Website: http://www.xmetric.com/honey **Email: jiannuzz@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us [1jan981031est] ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 19:42:29 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Elroy Rogers Subject: Re: FGMO challenge MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jerry J Bromenshenk wrote: > > > STATISTICAL CONDSIDERATIONS: > > This is a great idea, but you need a Standard Method if you intend to > compare results. As a first consideration, I offer these first step issues: > > You should have at least 3 colonies per treatment, not 2. One colony > represents an unreplicated experiment. Two provides a bit of replication, > but what do you do if one of the two shows a response and the other does > not? Three provides a tie-breaker (1 of 3, 2 of 3, or 3 of 3 colonies) > show --. One of two doesn't demonstrate anything. > > Depending on the inherent variability in the system, even 3 colonies per > treatment is probably on the small side, but 3 is far better than 2. We > often used 10-12 per treatment, but that is probably more than most can > spare for this test. However, with enough participants, 9 colonies per > participant will probably be sufficient. > > You will have to test your colonies in some quantitative way for mite > infestation levels BEFORE you start the tests. You should also > periodically monitor them during the conduct of the test, and at the end > (or when any of them checks out from mites). > > Drift will be a problem, so hive placement is an issue. You don't want > untreated bees re-infesting treated colonies. > > Also, you shouldn't bunch the the hives up in groups. For example, we know > that heat may reduce the number of mites. So, if all of your controls are > in the shade and all of your Apistan or FGMO hives are in the sun, you may > get "mite control" from the heat of the sun (but think it was from the > chemical treatment - Apistan or FGMO). > > You also should choose 9 colonies of similar strength and you then have to > randomly assign your initial colonies to each of the 3 treatments (Control, > Apistan, FMGO) for statistical validity. Let's say you pick 9 colonies. > Number the hives 1 through 9. Now, put 9 slips of paper into a hat, each > with a number from 1 - 9. Mix them up, then draw them out. Let us say you > pull the numbers in this order 2, 7, 3, 4, 9, 6, 1, 5, 8. We will then > assign the first number drawn to FMGO, the second to Apistan, the third to > the Control, and continue. > > That allows us to randomnly assign our 9 colonies to the three test groups: > > FMGO Hives 2,4,1 > Apistan Hives 7,9,5 > Control Hives 3,6,8 > > Why do this? Again, this is a basic premise of setting up a statistically > valid experiment. If we simply pick colonies, we may subconsciously pick > the colonies based on some bias (e.g., worst case, you pick the three > strongest colonies for the Control hives and assign the weakest to FMGO or > vice versa). The weak colonies may be weak because they have more mites to > begin with. > > For those of you with computers (everyone on this list), you can get your > computer or calculator to generate random numbers (but the hat is more fun). > > If your colonies vary greatly in strength, you should be sure that each of > the 3 "treatment" groups has a similar array of hives by strength. Again, > the control would have a strong, medium, and weak hive, the Apistan strip a > strong, medium, and weak hive, and the FMGO a strong, medium, and weak > hive. However, it is simpler to start with similar strength hives. > Okay it sounds good 9 colonies it will be, and I got a 5 year old girl that sure will help draw the numbers. As to placement of each colony they should be far enough from each other to keep drifting to a minimum. Would it be okay for the 3 colonies getting the same treatment to be placed together. Also I agree with an earlier post one should do the test and another find the results, so as to try to weed out any bias one way or the other. I would be willing to send samples at my own expense to any lab that would do the counting of varroa mites and t mites at their expense and share the info with all that participate. Maybe there will be some other beekeepers that will participate as to get results from different parts of the country. > > > >I would like to see other beekeepers on this list try the same > >experiment with as many colonies as they can spare, we could exchange > >data on the list weekly or bimonthly. Good record keeping should be kept > >on all test colonies using a standard form for all that want to > >participate. There were several different methods of using FGMO posted > >so any form used should be generic enough to allow for different > >methods. > > >Good luck in the new season > > > >Elroy > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 21:06:15 -0500 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" Organization: Independent non-profit research Subject: Re: FGMO challenge MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear John: Some people have "smelled" the tinkling of money in the FGMO atmosphere and are making sure that their hands are there for the grabbing! As simple as that. All the furor is due to the fact that they do not wish for me to receive any assitance to do my work. That is the reason why they don't attack your posts about the using vegetable oil. You may have noticed that I have declined any such help. I hope that you will continue my posts. I promise that they wont be offensive. Your friend Pedro ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 21:11:27 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Iannuzzi Subject: How 2 Raise Queens at Home (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Pleez ignore the beeginning of the (fwd) message. The rest is for those interested in an easy way of raising their own queens, altho I will bee the first to admit that I've never raised a queen, nor requeened, in 37 consecutive years of apiculture. I prefer letting the bees do it themselves, since they have millions of years practice. jack **John Iannuzzi, Ph.D. **38 years in apiculture **12 hives of Italian honeybees **At Historic Ellicott City, Maryland, 21042, U.S.A. (10 miles west of Baltimore, Maryland) [9772 Old Annapolis Rd - 410 730 5279] **"Forsooth there is some good in things evil For bees extract sweetness from the weed" -- Bard of Avon **Website: http://www.xmetric.com/honey **Email: jiannuzz@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us [1jan981031est] ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 08:42:20 -0500 (EST) From: John Iannuzzi To: BeemanNick@aol.com Subject: How 2 Raise Queens at Home Your question: Now what do you think about bees and sheep mixing? My answer: The offspring is a . New topic. You asked about queen-raising at home. Here's an easy method dug out of the , sep 97, p 167: [thanks to John Romanik, BeeBeard King of Maryland w/ 111 performances] Take 4 frames from a broodchamber: one w/day old eggs, one w/developing brood (that is, capped and uncapped), a two w/pollen and honey--making sure that the queen is NOT taken in the process. Replace the 4 removed w/drawncomb. Put the frames into a 4-frame nucleus. Shake bees, from the parent colony, into the nuc until it is nearly full, again making sure the queen is not shaken in. After a week, the bees in the nuc will have raised 2 or 3 emergency queen cells. A feeder of weak syrup is put on the nuc. Presto! After about 3 weeks the nuc is full of bees and a young queen! On Wed, 11 Feb 1998 BeemanNick@aol.com wrote: > Do bees and sheep mix? > **John Iannuzzi, Ph.D. **38 years in apiculture **12 hives of Italian honeybees **At Historic Ellicott City, Maryland, 21042, U.S.A. (10 miles west of Baltimore, Maryland) [9772 Old Annapolis Rd - 410 730 5279] **"Forsooth there is some good in things evil For bees extract sweetness from the weed" -- Bard of Avon **Website: http://www.xmetric.com/honey **Email: jiannuzz@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us [1jan981031est] ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 21:26:27 -0600 Reply-To: cspacek@flash.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: curtis spacek Subject: Re: Resistant Varroa Mites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This problem involving the use of apistan strips vs. mavrick in the USA is certianly due to the producers of apistan having considerably more influence (i.e. larger campaign contributions) than the producers of mavrick.As apparent evidence consider the speed and ferocity of the Texas government to silence one individual for merely discussing the use of mavrick while crop dusters and farmers apply pesticides during bloom phases routinely against label instructions with no action what so ever taken by the government.As a matter of fact a beekeeper can't get the time of day from the government much less enforcement of pesticide laws. if you don't own your own politician you are definitely on your own. from information read at this site it would be a very simple task to produce an apistan strip if the label on the mavrick bottle listed the proper dosage.the active ingredient is the same but then apistan couldn't make such a rediculous profit.BUT since the ONLY supplier is also the ONLY LICENSED DISTRIBUTOR they enjoy a very enviable position in the market place.SO how much do you think a "sole distributorship" would cost.What if a company like sue bee could gain a sole distributorship for all honey sold commercially.all the beekeepers would have to sell their honey only to sue bee who would in turn sell to the retail market.the whole thing is purely hypethetical but worth considering. to the poison police;I am not advocating,implying or encouraging the illegal use of pesticides.I don't have any money,real estate,or anything of value.however we would not hesitate to sue for mental anguish for violation of constitutional rights to freedom of speech.there are too many unemployed lawyers in the world and everyone needs to earn a living.EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE WEALTHY. ALWAYS REMEMBER MONEY IS THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL.FOLLOW THE MONEY TRAIL AND IT ALWAYS LEADS TO SOME GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL OR CRIMINAL ELEMENT.white water,water gate,government contracts,new football stadiums,land developement deals,timber leases,oil leases,minority quotas,bi-lingual education,mandatory auto insurance,H.M.Os,etc........ the list is endless all you have to do is OPEN YOUR EYES throw off the blinders and FOLLOW THE MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!! THERE IS ALWAYS THE REMOTE POSSIBILITY THAT I AM MISTAKEN AND ALL PEOPLE HOLDING POLITICAL OFFICES ARE JUST HARD WORKING INDIVIDUALS TRYING TO MAKE AMERICA A BETTER PLACE FOR EVERYONE. "NOT" then again maybe I just have a bad attitude due to a lousy childhood.Hmmmmmm? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 21:26:25 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John M Thorp Subject: FDA/EPA approval for M.O. treatment Comments: To: beking@selway.umt.edu Just a few snips below and a thought to pass on,wouldn't it be neat to do the same thing with marijuhana? Take Care and GBY-John in Homestead ```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` I would like to propose that some members of Bee-L get organized and try to get MO approved by FDA and EPA as a miticide without the help from some big chemical company. Let's make use of ongoing university research programs and private beekeepers around the world. No more crap about MO not being harmful to human beings, THAT'S JUST NOT GOOD ENOUGH. Knapweed isn't directly harmful to human beings. This would require determining the effects of MO on the environment that the application as a miticide would release it into. Here are some examples of what needs to be studied: The list that was posted a couple weeks ago is a good start. Let's be proactive here. If MO solves the mite problem, then lets use all of our technology to prove it. If MO won't solve the problem, or only masks a bigger problem, careful study will prevent the unwarranted application of MO. Only when all questions have been answered should the use of MO continue. Any furthur discussion of what MO can do or how many hives it has saved is pointless until progess is made on obtaining government approval for its use and the method of action on the mites is pinpointed. Hand-waving doesn't work, repeating unsupported claims only annoys people. Name calling only fuels flame wars. As far as MO is concerned, it would be wise to either put up or shut up, i.e., if you can prove how it works and that it will not introduce a greater problem than the mites already have presented, then it should be used, but if not, then it is no more effective than a 19th century elixar. Take Care and GBY-John in Homestead- -also at Jesus Christ Is The Only Answer,Joshua24:15 _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 23:26:20 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: Resistant Varroa Mites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- > ALWAYS REMEMBER MONEY IS THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL. I know this is off-topic but.... One actual quote is: "It has been said that the love of money is the root of all evil." Samuel Butler Note the small but important difference... Ian Watson realtor@niagara.com real estate agent gardener baritone beekeeper---> 11 colonies and counting ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 23:36:44 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Michael J. Schuerger, Sr." Subject: Re: Resistant Varroa Mites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ian Watson wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > > ALWAYS REMEMBER MONEY IS THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL. > > I know this is off-topic but.... > > One actual quote is: > > "It has been said that the love of money is the root of all evil." > > Samuel Butler > > Note the small but important difference... > > Ian Watson realtor@niagara.com > real estate agent gardener baritone > beekeeper---> 11 colonies and counting Well Ian, the "It has been said that" part is referring to the Bible quote, "The love of money is the root of all evil." In the New Testament, one of the synoptic gospels (Matt, Mark, or Luke) and said by Jesus. I don't recall exactly where right off, and don't really have time to go find it. Quite often as you note, the "love of" part is left off, greatly changing the meaning. To touch back on the subject, can you imagine that Israel is referred to as "the land of milk and honey?" That must be strictly in contrast to the Sinai desert. Only in modern times has it blossomed so (under the irrigation and planting program of the Israelis) as far as I know. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 01:47:27 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Elroy Rogers Subject: Re: How 2 Raise Queens at Home (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello John, There are a few flaws in your queen rearing I'll point them out below. John Iannuzzi wrote: > > Pleez ignore the beeginning of the (fwd) message. > The rest is for those interested in an easy way of raising > their own queens, altho I will bee the first to admit that > I've never raised a queen, nor requeened, in 37 consecutive > years of apiculture. I prefer letting the bees do it > themselves, since they have millions of years practice. > jack > > **John Iannuzzi, Ph.D. > **38 years in apiculture > **12 hives of Italian honeybees > **At Historic Ellicott City, Maryland, 21042, U.S.A. (10 miles west of > Baltimore, Maryland) [9772 Old Annapolis Rd - 410 730 5279] > **"Forsooth there is some good in things evil > For bees extract sweetness from the weed" -- Bard of Avon > **Website: http://www.xmetric.com/honey > **Email: jiannuzz@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us [1jan981031est] > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 08:42:20 -0500 (EST) > From: John Iannuzzi > To: BeemanNick@aol.com > Subject: How 2 Raise Queens at Home > > Your question: Now what do you think about bees and sheep mixing? > My answer: The offspring is a . > > New topic. > You asked about queen-raising at home. Here's an > easy method dug out of the , sep 97, p 167: > [thanks to John Romanik, BeeBeard King of Maryland w/ 111 performances] > > Take 4 frames from a broodchamber: one w/day old eggs, one w/developing > brood (that is, capped and uncapped), a two w/pollen and honey--making > sure that the queen is NOT taken in the process. Replace the 4 removed > w/drawncomb. This works well if you can be sure you have eggs all the same age, in the real world you will have eggs and lavae in all stages of development. The bees will pick up to 6 cells per frame to make a queen, the problem is that they will use different stages of larvae to produce their queen. The first one out wound'nt be as good as the ones still in there cells, but she will kill all others in their cell. The larvae used must be under 24 hours old to become good queens, the bees could use larvae up to 3 days old ( see the hive and the honey bee page 996). Best way to get the best queens in this way is to go into the nuc between 3 to 4 days and destroy all sealed Q cells, killing all the lousy ones. The ones left ( not yet sealed) will be very good queens that won't be superseded when under a strong honey flow. > > Put the frames into a 4-frame nucleus. > Shake bees, from the parent colony, into the nuc > until it is nearly full, again making sure the queen > is not shaken in. > > After a week, the bees in the nuc will have raised 2 or 3 > emergency queen cells. A feeder of weak syrup is put on > the nuc. Presto! After about 3 weeks the nuc is full of > bees and a young queen! > > On Wed, 11 Feb 1998 BeemanNick@aol.com wrote: > > > Do bees and sheep mix? > > > > **John Iannuzzi, Ph.D. > **38 years in apiculture > **12 hives of Italian honeybees > **At Historic Ellicott City, Maryland, 21042, U.S.A. (10 miles west of > Baltimore, Maryland) [9772 Old Annapolis Rd - 410 730 5279] > **"Forsooth there is some good in things evil > For bees extract sweetness from the weed" -- Bard of Avon > **Website: http://www.xmetric.com/honey > **Email: jiannuzz@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us [1jan981031est] ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 01:07:19 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robert e butcher Subject: mites bites Hi everyone, Ijust thought I would put in my two cents. Here in Tucson Arizona,there was a study done on smaller comb ; what effects it had on the mites; both tracheal and varroa. by putting them on smaller comb it eliminated most of the mites, both kinds. they did the test without chemicals , and it reduced the mites,and also the foulbrood. there are several big companies backing the move to use ten cells in 4.9 cm. comb. One is the Arizona Rangeland honey . The Southern Arizona Beekeepers Assoc. i that there are more who are changing over to the smaller comb.I can get the test results if anyone wants them. I believe if you use the smaller comb your bees won't be so irritated, then you can use less smoke. I,m changing over to it also. several commercial companies are already mass producing foundation for themselves. Ed and Dee Lusby were published in Bee Culture(Jan.1998 vol.126 #1) Mills for the 4.9 comb are being made by Tom Ind. in El Cajon, Cali. for about $850.00 there are several mills out there already in use. May the LORD BLESS YOU AND YOURS Bob _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 01:06:28 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Andy Nachbaur (by way of Andy Nachbaur )" Subject: HARD SMOKE, more Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" More HARD SMOKE.... from the beekeeping news group FYI. Subject: Re: Varroa Mite Resistance Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 14:43:41 +0100 From: Hugo Thone Organization: Alcatel Telecom Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping MiksaHF wrote: > >Fluvalinate strips are available in the US -- it's called Apistan > >If your section 18 reference is refering to Miticur, it was removed from > >the market after a 'bad' batch caused a bee kill - the mfg. who bought ( >>but did not develop) the manufacturing rights, did not want the liability and > >withdrew the product. > >Current work is with a Formic Acid delivery system. Finally a reasonable explanation. I have been using Apistan strips since 1989 and have noticed the following changes : - the strips are thinner now - the plastic is more fatty - the color of the strips is darker - the old strips could be used effectively for 2 -3 years In Europe we use only two strips per hive as stated on the instruction label, so I guess you have other strips over there. Although VITA pretends that there are fluvalinate resistant varroa mites in the south of Belgium, the strips are still effective where I live (northern part of the country). (And Belgium is not that big : if you are standing in most southern point, you can throw a pie in a person's face in the northern part. ;-) Maybe they are making some room for their new product APIGUARD. Cheers, Hugo -- do bee do bee do ... Hugo Thone (VE144) email : htho@se.bel.alcatel.be (\ ALCATEL TELECOM phone : (32) 3 240 94 52 {|||8- F.Wellesplein 1 fax : (32) 3 240 99 49 (/ B-2018 Antwerp ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 07:36:52 -0500 Reply-To: loganv@earthlink.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Logan VanLeigh Subject: Re: FDA/EPA approval for M.O. treatment (EPA Workaround) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John M Thorp wrote: > > Just a few snips below and a thought to pass on EPA requires approval for a miticide. What about a physical trap??? Sell the idea as a physical entrapment distributed onto the bees' bodies, not as a poison. Still need FDA ok, but the oils are already approved. Logan Barracks Lawyer ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 07:42:27 -0400 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Joel Govostes Subject: Re: How 2 Raise Queens at Home (fwd) In-Reply-To: <34E416AF.7173@starpoint.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" IME better q cells are produced in a full-sized colony, complete with a good force of foragers, lots of brood, a large provision of pollen, etc. I also feed them w/sugar syrup while the cells are being built, so there is no lull in the food supply coming into the colony during this time. They have access to syrup 24 hrs., no matter what the weather. The queen and a couple of combs (brood and bees) are transferred to a nuc-box temporarily, and by the time 10 days have gone by there are a good number of fine capped q cells in the main colony. It can be then be divided up into nuclei, or the cells removed for use elsewhere. Not too fancy, but it seems to work quite well. Without a strong colony, you can end up with lots of runty q cells, so the more bees you can shake into a cell-building nuc (such as John mentioned) the better. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 08:18:11 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Ralph W. Harrison" Subject: "Bee Lady" Hello All, Is there anyone on the list who would have a mail address or e-mail address for Pat Wagner the "Bee Lady" author of "How Well Are You Willing To Bee" Regards, Ralph Harrison Western CT Beekeepers Association Milford, CT USA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 15:51:13 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: Expectations of researchers Greetings All esp Ellroy I would like to add a few points to the debate. Firstly Jerry mentioned that it is unusual to find people working on their own in the scientific community, and that it is almost impossible to work without the a large research group to help out. I can dissagree with this - as I am sure do many from eastern europe and other countries where funding is a valuable commodity. I know many scientists who have but one personal assistant and they produce many internationally published papers per year. This is how science should be, because if much of the worlds scientific spending power were spent this way, we would be far further than we are now. Hard work and enthusiasm are lost when one becomes beurocratised. Secondly, on the possibility of FGMO being shot down by Apistans makers, I would like to dissagree with that. Recently I had a private e-mail conversation with one of the manufacturers who mentioned that they needed many more tools to treat the mites so as to keep apistan viable. (IE rotate treatments) In this sense it is an advantage for the Apistan trademark holders to keep FGMO used as it prolongs the marketable life of APistan and hence the chances of recouping R and D costs. And given that many people will make a tax up with FGMO and also with Apistan, it is good to have both available. Just my two cents. Keep well Garth --- Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Apis melifera capensis Grahamstown 800mm annual precipitation 6139 Eastern Cape South Africa Phone 27-0461-311663 On holiday for a few months Rhodes University Which means: working with bees 15 hours a day! Interests: Fliis and bees Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this post in no way reflect those of Rhodes University. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 10:03:04 -0800 Reply-To: mister-t@clinic.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Resistant Varroa Mites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit curtis spacek wrote, in part: > This problem involving the use of apistan strips vs. mavrick in the USA > is certianly due to the producers of apistan having considerably more > influence (i.e. larger campaign contributions) than the producers of > mavrick.As apparent evidence consider the speed and ferocity of the > Texas government to silence one individual for merely discussing the use > of mavrick while crop dusters and farmers apply pesticides during bloom > phases routinely against label instructions with no action what so ever > taken by the government.from information read at this site it would be a > very simple task to > produce an apistan strip if the label on the mavrick bottle listed the > proper dosage.the active ingredient is the same but then apistan > couldn't make such a rediculous profit.BUT since the ONLY supplier is > also the ONLY LICENSED DISTRIBUTOR they enjoy a very enviable position > in the market place.SO how much do you think a "sole distributorship" > would cost. To get EPA and FDA approval for a product costs money. One million US is not out of line. Why go through all the hoops to produce it for a small market? And when you do, you have to recoup those expenses, so the product is expensive. Look at Fumidil-B. If you have a large market, those costs can be spread out and the product is cheaper. The market at work. Even if a pesticide is used on other crops or animals, the company has to go through all the costs of registering for the new crop or animal. And the EPA is a bear to work with. As far as MAVRIK goes, my bet is that even though Apistan is being blamed for resistance, it is really MAVRIK mis-use. The way the Texas beekeeper, who seems now to be a folk hero, recommended would kill the mites but would also lead more quickly to resistant mites. I also understand that MAVRIK has additives to allow it to go into solution so it can be used as a spray. Since it is designed to go into solution, it will probably show up in honey in the near future. If it does, then who is the hero? Bill Truesdell Bath, ME > . > What if a company like sue bee could gain a sole > distributorship for all honey sold commercially.all the beekeepers would > have to sell their honey only to sue bee who would in turn sell to the > retail market.the whole thing is purely hypethetical but worth > considering. > to the poison police;I am not advocating,implying or encouraging the > illegal use of pesticides.I don't have any money,real estate,or anything > of value.however we would not hesitate to sue for mental anguish for > violation of constitutional rights to freedom of speech.there are too > many unemployed lawyers in the world and everyone needs to earn a > living.EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE WEALTHY. > ALWAYS REMEMBER MONEY IS THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL.FOLLOW THE MONEY TRAIL > AND IT ALWAYS LEADS TO SOME GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL OR CRIMINAL > ELEMENT.white water,water gate,government contracts,new football > stadiums,land developement deals,timber leases,oil leases,minority > quotas,bi-lingual education,mandatory auto insurance,H.M.Os,etc........ > the list is endless all you have to do is OPEN YOUR EYES throw off the > blinders and > FOLLOW THE MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!! > > THERE IS ALWAYS THE REMOTE POSSIBILITY THAT I AM MISTAKEN AND ALL > PEOPLE HOLDING POLITICAL OFFICES ARE JUST HARD WORKING INDIVIDUALS > TRYING TO MAKE AMERICA A BETTER PLACE FOR EVERYONE. > > "NOT" > then again maybe I just have a bad attitude due to a lousy > childhood.Hmmmmmm? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 09:07:04 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Iannuzzi Subject: Re: "Bee Lady" In-Reply-To: <980213081809_828329807@mrin52> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi Ralph, I've forwarded your message to my friend Pat Wagner in Waldorf MD. She shud bee contacting U shortly. If not, pleez repost and I'll bee more specific. Bonne chance! BTW, I've just found what you wanted: Pat Wagner 5431 Lucy Dr Waldorf MD 20601 - 301/843-8350 or jack the bman fr13fe98 907a est On Fri, 13 Feb 1998, Ralph W. Harrison wrote: > Hello All, > Is there anyone on the list who would have a mail address or e-mail address > for Pat Wagner the "Bee Lady" author of "How Well Are You Willing To Bee" > > Regards, > Ralph Harrison > Western CT Beekeepers Association > Milford, CT USA > **John Iannuzzi, Ph.D. **38 years in apiculture **12 hives of Italian honeybees **At Historic Ellicott City, Maryland, 21042, U.S.A. (10 miles west of Baltimore, Maryland) [9772 Old Annapolis Rd - 410 730 5279] **"Forsooth there is some good in things evil For bees extract sweetness from the weed" -- Bard of Avon **Website: http://www.xmetric.com/honey **Email: jiannuzz@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us [1jan981031est] ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 09:10:19 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: Bee/Keeper Brains and Sex Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I have been corresponding with two neuroscientists about the bee brain. I would like to forward this letter to the list because some may enjoy it, and I will add some comments to the end. >Stan: > >I have found a good reference with some numbers concerning the brain of >the honey bee. The reference: > >Peter G. Mobbs, "Brain Structure" in Comprehensive Insect Physiology, >Biochemistry and Pharmacology, edited by G.A. Kerkut and L.I. Gilbert, >Oxford: Pergamon Press, 1985. > >Some of the numbers (Apis mellifera) > > Worker Drone > ------ ----- >Total Brain Volume 1.321 mm^3 7.839 mm^3 >Total # of neurons 851,458 1,209,681 > >Note that these volumes include the suboesophageal ganglion. There are >also numbers for mushroom bodies, central body, protocerebral >bridge, optic lobes and antennal lobes (all volumes). Figures allow for >shrinkage during processing. > >I was surprised at the difference between the drone and the worker bee and >also of the relative small number of neurons in the drone given the much >large brain volume. > >Eric > >Eric H. Chudler, Ph.D. >(E-mail: chudler@u.washington.edu) >(URL: http://weber.u.washington.edu/~chudler/neurok.html) >(URL: http://weber.u.washington.edu/~chudler/ehc.html) First, I would like to mention that Dr. Chudler's web pages are well known as being a first rate neuroscience web site. There is little there about insect neurophysiology right now, but he is working on it! What follows is pasted from my reply to him, and he is not a beekeeper or entomologist so please forgive me for restating what is obvious to you: Drones differ from workers and queens in that they are genetically haploid. "The drone has a short tongue, which he uses to take food from workers and from honey-storage cells in the hive; he does not collect food from flowers. He has neither pollen baskets nor wax-secreting nor scent-producing glands. So far as is known the drone does no work in the hive, his only function in life being to seek a nubile queen outside the hive and forfeit his life mating with her". Drone's also are notoriously poor at reorienting to their home hive, which workers do with a combination of visual (colour and shape), olfactory, and landmark cues. They often drift. But, to do their job they are strong flyers and have a good sense of smell (they home on queen pheromone). There are about 30,000 plate organs on the drone's antennae compared with 5-6,000 on a worker's and 2-3,000 on a queen's. Sexual selection often produces dimorphism in mammals (big bull walruses, etc.) and if it has tended towards a bigger drone then perhaps most of the brain volume, except for the olfactory lobes, is superfluous. With an animal that has invested 5% in brain volume one would expect superfluous neurons to be limited. In fact, I linked from your pages to an article on neuron death which was exploring strategies for limiting superfluous neurons (THE CONTROL OF NEURON NUMBER, Williams and Herrup, Ann. Rev. Neurosci, 1988, 11: 423-453). The article concentrated on neuron production, and TIME of production, and neuron death. Considered the few instinctive behaviours that drones are programmed for compared with the multitude in the worker the fact that the brain is bigger at all is surprising and maybe is just due to having to fill up the bigger brain cavity, so to speak, and thus the smaller relative neuron number is not nearly so surprising to me (although I qualify this in that I will be curious to see what proportion of the brain volume is in the olfactory lobe). I have found a reasonably good diagram of the parts of the bees brain and ganglia system so I should be able to follow the table. There seems to be a scarcity of females in this group, or at least in the postings (are women quieter :) But if I was was a female, or a feminist, I think I could find some ammunition here against the argument that some (probably only those who enjoy sleeping in the honeyhouse) might make that the male brain is bigger. (See ..../~chudler/heshe.html) The larger brain in drones is certainly not accompanied by greater capabilities. It is over four times the size but has only 50% more neurons. Drones are empty headed so to speak. It is not how big it is that is important, it is how you use it. In SMALL but PRODUCTIVE Prince Edward Island Stan P.S. Today (Friday 13) is I believe the day of the patron saint of beekeeping. CBC radio will be celebrating it on Richardson's Roundup in lieu of Valentine's day (since that is on a Saturday and the show is only weekdays). Show airs 2-4 pm here. Honey is better than chocolate. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 08:16:05 +0100 Reply-To: Barry@Birkey.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Organization: BIRKEY.COM Subject: Re: Resistant Varroa Mites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit curtis spacek wrote: > ALWAYS REMEMBER MONEY IS THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL.FOLLOW THE MONEY Uh, I believe it's the LOVE of money that's the root of all evil. -Barry -- Barry Birkey West Chicago, Illinois USA Barry@Birkey.com http://www.birkey.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 08:32:48 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: tfore Subject: Re: "Bee Lady" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" How about her phone number??? Pat Wagner that is...... 301-843-8350 Christina Wright ABF office ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 03:24:11 GMT Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: qub Subject: bees and sheep MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII NO, bees really love to get their stings into sheep! > > > > On Wed, 11 Feb 1998 BeemanNick@aol.com wrote: > > > > > Do bees and sheep mix? > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 10:33:11 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Garth's Comments Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Garth Said: Firstly Jerry mentioned that it is unusual to find people working on their own in the scientific community, and that it is almost impossible to work without the a large research group to help out. Whoops! Something wrong here. Some of us work alone, others work in teams. With increasing complexity of subjects, we often have to tap the expertise of others. Also, comparative studies add a lot to credability. But none of us work without critical review from our peers. "Show me the data" is the axiom. Nor did I say it is almost impossible to work with a large research group to help out. You missed the point. However, as Bruce King pointed out, a group effort (and a group of beekeepers is great) can go a long way to producing the "numbers" needed to thoroughly examine an issue. As many members of Bee-L know, we pioneered research projects using Task Forces of Beekeepers (started in Seattle area, extended across much of NW, now working on east coast in much the same manner. BUT, WE WILL ALWAYS INSISTS ON CAREFUL DESIGN, FOLLOWING THE PROTOCOLS, AND QUALITY ASSURANCE CHECKS ON THE DATA, AS WELL AS TIMELY PUBLICATION OF RESULTS. Also, as far as the "Physical Trap" work-around suggested by our Lawyer friend - read the regulations. EPA and FDA are concerned about foreign chemicals in beehives. The regs are not based on mode of action nor even whether you consider it a poison. Simply the presence of something that would not normally be found in the hive - you have to prove that it is not harmful. Cheers ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 12:55:04 +0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Carlos Aparicio Subject: Re: Resistant Varroa Mites Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:26 PM 12/02/1998 -0500, Ian Watson wrote: >-----Original Message----- > >> ALWAYS REMEMBER MONEY IS THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL. > >I know this is off-topic but.... > >One actual quote is: > > >"It has been said that the love of money is the root of all evil." > > Samuel Butler > >Note the small but important difference... > >Ian Watson realtor@niagara.com >real estate agent gardener baritone >beekeeper---> 11 colonies and counting > > The very core of the matter Carlos Aparicio ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 11:45:41 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: George W Imirie Subject: Re: Worcester County(MA) Irradiation of hive bodies Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I really don't want to post this, but in defense of myself I must. Garry Libbee asked could all parts of a hive be irradiated to kill AFB spores. I replied: " Irradiation was like a chest x-ray, no heat was involved" . Aaron Morris replied stating that I was wrong, because radiation would make honey BOIL. Nothing could me further from the truth! Gamma radiation, unlike a micro-wave oven, does NOT thermally heat anything. As I previously said, irradiation service places have different rules because of cleanliness, size, weight restrictions, etc., but the raise in thermal temperature is not considered because there is NO heat involved. Again repeating, I hope radiation is the 21st century tool that all will use to kill AFB spores in our bee equipment. George Imirie, retired atomic nuclear physicist, Manhattan Project 1943-58 Beekeeper since 1933, hampered by strokes but still teaching beekeeping FREE ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 12:17:39 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Worcester County (Ma) Beekeepers Irradiating Bee Hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT George Imirie wrote: > Aaron Morris replied stating that I was wrong, because radiation > would make honey BOIL... Quoting directly what Aaron Morris stated: "This is contrary to my understanding. I recall reading (and my recollection has been flawed in the past) in ABJ an article ... All equipment is require to be free of honey, as the irradiation causes the honey to boil...." What Aaron Morris was quick to hop upon (and admittefly sometimes Aaron Morris hops faster that he thinks) was the statement: "Irradiation is just the same as getting your chest X-rayed." Again quoting George Imirie (to whom I mean no disrespect, I am not worthy to light his smoker), "Nothing could me further from the truth!" My point was that irradiating bee hives entails a lot more gamma radiation and a lot more time than an X-Ray at the doctor's office! For George's sake (and my own defense) I will go through my back volumes of ABJs to find the original article from Don Sandstrom to see where I got the notion that the honey would boil, which I stated before I posted it that my recollection may be flawed. Aaron Morris doesn't claim to know it all! Quoting again from George, >... I hope radiation is the 21st century tool that all will use > to kill AFB spores in our bee equipment. Agreed! The point of my post was that it's time for regulations to come up to date with technology! Why burn when you can nuke! Aaron Morris - thinking I may be turning into Bob Dole! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 12:41:42 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Iannuzzi Subject: Re: Bee/Keeper Brains and Sex In-Reply-To: <199802131410.JAA21240@mail1.auracom.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Right on, Stan the Man, in Prince Edward Island. Tre`s interessant! jack **John Iannuzzi, Ph.D. **38 years in apiculture **12 hives of Italian honeybees **At Historic Ellicott City, Maryland, 21042, U.S.A. (10 miles west of Baltimore, Maryland) [9772 Old Annapolis Rd - 410 730 5279] **"Forsooth there is some good in things evil For bees extract sweetness from the weed" -- Bard of Avon **Website: http://www.xmetric.com/honey **Email: jiannuzz@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us [1jan981031est] ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 10:04:45 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Kerry Clark of AGF 784-2225 fax (604) 784 2299" Subject: Apitherapy conference June 98 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII ANNOUNCEMENT PACIFIC NORTHWEST APITHERAPY CONFERENCE Vancouver, British Columbia June 12-14, 1998 Interest in the ancient practice of apitherapy is growing by leaps and bounds. Recent newspaper articles and television documentaries have publicized the remarkable results reported by people using bee venom therapy to treat disorders such as multiple sclerosis and arthritis. Apitherapists are finding it helpful with many other conditions as well. The medicinal uses of propolis, honey, pollen, and royal jelly for treatment of infections, prostate problems, and other conditions is increasing. The Pacific Northwest Apitherapy Conference has been organized to provide practical and theoretical information for everyone interested in apitherapy: physicians, naturopaths, lay practitioners, individuals with conditions that respond to apitherapy, and beekeepers who produce the hive products and bees used in apitherapy. Conference activities will include: lectures by world-class apitherapists, small group workshops providing practical instruction on such topics as administering and receiving bee venom, specialized equipment for handling bees and collecting venom, medicinal uses of hive products such as royal jelly, pollen, propolis, and honey; and a panel discussion conducted by individuals with multiple sclerosis, arthritis, and other conditions which have responded to apitherapy. The British Columbia Honey Producers Association is sponsoring this event and invites all interested individuals to attend. It will be held at Simon Fraser University, but is not a function of the university. Exhibition tables will be available for rent for those who have products they wish to sell. For information, please contact: Fran Calvert - Wildwood Healing Centre 5918 Fraser St. Powell River, B.C. Canada V8A 4T5 phone: 604-483-4564 email: calvert@thecentre.com PACIFIC NORTHWEST APITHERAPY CONFERENCE Simon Fraser University Vancouver, British Columbia June 12-14, 1998 SPEAKERS: Dr.Amber Rose, Ph.D., L.Ac., M.S.W. (New Jersey) Author, Bee in Balance, article, National Geographic, Jan. 1998: Bee venom therapy and Chinese medicine; users guide to bee acupuncture. Dr.Stefan Stangaciu, M.D., L.Ac. (Romania) Pharmacological properties and uses of pollen, propolis, and royal jelly; apitherapy in the treatment of multiple sclerosis. Dr.Dietrich Klinghardt, M.C., Ph.D. (Washington State) Pain management; German neural therapy; use of injectable bee venom; plateaus during recovery; treatment of scars. Michael Simics (Richmond, B.C.) Author, Exploring the Healing Power. Bee venom collection; frequently asked questions about bee venom therapy. Fred Malone (Victoria, B.C.) Author, Bees Don't Get Arthritis. Bee venom and arthritis. Panel Discussion with individuals with multiple sclerosis, arthritis, and other conditions who have been assisted by apitherapy. Registration Fees: Up to May 1 $150 Cdn/ $125 US After May 1 $165 Cdn/ $135 US If you are thinking of attending, please give Fran a call or email so she can reserve sufficient space. We hope to have scholarships available for people with disabilities who are on limited incomes. Very inexpensive wheelchair accessible accommodation is available through university housing. Please ask for more details if interested. Fran Calvert - Wildwood Healing Centre 5918 Fraser St. Powell River, B.C. Canada V8A 4T5 phone: 604-483-4564 email: calvert@thecentre.com Conference Schedule: Registration: Friday June 12 11:30 am - 1:30 pm. Seminars & workshops Friday June 12 1:30 pm - 10:00 pm. SaturdayJune 13 9:00 am - 9:00 pm Sunday June 14 9:00 am - 4:00 pm Accommodation: Inexpensive, wheelchair accessible accommodation is available at SFU. Costs quoted are per night. Book before April 1 by calling SFU at 604-291-4330. Prices are in Canadian dollars. Single dormitory rooms economical sleeping bag special $19.00 full service $31.05 Twin dormitory rooms full service only $50.60 Townhouse quads (4 single bedrooms, sharing kitchen, living room, bathroom) per room $43.00 entire townhouse (for groups of 4 people) $115.00 Meals: Not included in registration fee. SFU cafeterias will be open. We will organize a dinner for Saturday evening. Cost is additional; pay at registration. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 10:33:14 -0800 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Andy Nachbaur (by way of Andy Nachbaur )" Subject: Jan Plant & Bee Conditions USA Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" NATIONAL HONEY MARKET NEWS Feb 6, 1998 COLONY, HONEY PLANT & MARKET CONDITIONS DURING JANUARY 1998 ARKANSAS Currently there are no pollen and nectar sources. Bee colonies are in good condition. There has been high moisture in Arkansas and it has also been unseasonably warm. This could cause starvation later in the Winter months. There is no honey flow at present. There was a low demand for honey but supplies are good. CALIFORNIA January brought no relief from the frequent rainshowers across the state. On the lOth, one storm system dumped 2" of rain onto Northern California and along the central and southern coast. The next week that ended on the 17th, Eureka, along the coast, received 4.59", the Sierra Nevada foothills reported 12.87" and Shasta Dam, near Redding had 9.33". Some relief came the next couple of weeks When warmer temperatures were accompanied by only occasional showers but by the period ending the 25th, Eureka had accumulated 11.24" of rain or 232% of normal. Bakersfield hit a record high of 75 degrees on the 18th. While the bees are reported to continue to be in fairly good condition, the extreme weather conditions were beginning to wear down the colonies by the end of the month. They were not able to take frequent cleansing flight because of the wind and rain. This not only caused them to eat large amounts of their winter stores it also began to slow down the normal growth of some colonies. Many colonies needed supplemental feed during the,month. The almond bloom is expected to begin around the 15th of February so hives bein removed from holdinlg yards or being brought in from other areas were being stockpiled around the edge or on higher ground near the orchards because the ground was too wet and muddy to set them in the middle of the orchards. They are hoping to move them once the bloom starts but unless conditions improve, they may have to do their pollinating from where they are now. Businesses that sell beekeeping supplies were very busy during January filling orders for syrup and sugar for feed and boxes. Migratory beekeepers were also coming in to buy supplies, some for now, some to take home. Some packers were still not buying a lot of honey, even though the price is considerably lower than a year ago, but the demand from commercial users for darker colored honey continues to be light. COLORADO Beekeepers around the state are once again reporting serious losses of bee colonies, especially in the Northern part of Colorado. Colorado Dcpt. Of Agriculture officials report as much as 36% loss of colonies statewide. Investigations indicate imported parasitic mites,.foul brood -disease, starvation, inappropriate mite treatments and pesticides, or combinations of those are contributing to the bee losses. Most migratory bee colonies are currently working the cantaloupe crops in Texas and the almond crops in California. The weather in Colorado for the month of January was seasonal with average amounts of moisture in form of snow. Temperatures for the Denver area ranged from 10- 1 5 degrees for the low to 35-45 degrees for the high during the first part of the month. The last part:of the month has been warmer statewide with temperatures ranging 15-25 degrees for the low and the highs being from 45-55 degrees. Statewide there is an average snowpack of 90 percent of normal for the month. FLORIDA Temperatures were about normal for the month of January with heavy rains in some North Florida and panhandle locations. Activity was very light in Florida. Bees were feeding on light supplies of Spanish Needle, maialeuca and other maintenance crops. The bees are reported to be in fairly good condition. Demand for Florida honey was good. GEORGIA Colonies around the state were generally m good condition. Beekeepers were begmng to closely inspect colonies for tracheal mite as the mortality rate usually peaks in February. Reports of infestation were occasionally noted. There were little reports of supplemental feeding as most colonies continue to have more than ample stores due to a favorable buildup in the fall. The month of January experenced mild temperatures which has triggered early pollen sources. Bees were brining in pollen from primarily red maple and alder to stimulate broodrearing. Queens were laying brood in increasing numbers mostly in the southern half of the state. Preventative treatment for American Foul Brood will take place in the second half of February. IDAHO - UTAH - NEVADA Beekeepers were mostly inactive in the winter month of January except for migratory beekeepers that have bees in California. Snowpack in the mountains is about average and agricultural water shortages are not anticipated for reservoir water users. Temeratures have been very mild for the most part of the month. On the 17th and 18th, Salt Lake City notched two daily-record high temperatures of 56 and 54 degrees while Boise also set a record on the 18th of 57 degrees. ILLINOIS Most beekeepers and state apiary inspectors reported the states colonies have continued to overwinter well. Temperatures have been unseasonably warm for January. Most areas received varied amounts of snowfall. The last of the month temperatures in the 60's were reported from Paris in the Central area and Marion in the Southern part of the state. Retail honey continued to move well while bulk wholesale movement was reported slow. Hives were been checked for ample food stores and most hives required more supplemental feeding than normal. INDIANA Beekeepers reported most hives were over-wintering well. Beekeepers had treated hives early and some beekeepers treated again during the last of the month due to the unseasonable warm weather. Temperatures were reported in the high 50's and niid 60's in Central and Southern areas. A few dandelions were noted in southern Indiana. Package bee demand picked up due to beekeepers buying and delivery problems of last spring. Honey movement continued to be slow for wholesale bulk honey but retail sales continued to be good. MISSISSIPPI Colonies around the state were generally in good condition. Beekeepers were beginning to closely inspect colonies for tracheal mite as the mortality rate usually peaks in February. Infestation has not been noted to any great extent. The month of January experienced mild temperatures which has triggered early pollen sources. Towards the end of January, red maple was blooming throughout the southern half of the state. Bees were bringing in pollen from red maple as a stimulant to brood reading. Queens were actively laying brood in colonies in the southern half of the state. There were little reports of supplemental feeding as most colonies have ample stores due to a favorable buildup in the fall. Preventative treatment for American Foul Brood will take place in the second half of February. MISSOURI & IOWA Total precipitation was slightly above normal in most locations. Temperatures averaged well above normal for the month. The week of January 4- 10 was very warin; January 11 -17 and 18-24 was generally cold and cloudy with the 11- 17th being probably the coldest week of winter; January 25-31 was warm. Bees over the area should have had cleansing flights during the first week and the last week of the month. The next management concern is getting feed to the bees when needed later this season. Many areas had a light fall flow and with the mild winter food reserves will be used up faster by the hives. MONTANA In the northeast quarter of the state, where the latest first sub-zero reading on record occurred on January 2nd, lows averaged niinus 9 degrees including minus 27 degrees on the 10th. The cold front continued south where lows plummeted to niinus 35-40 degrees on the 11th. Snowfall varied, with the largest amounts falling in the mountains and in the western half of the state. By the last of the month, weather conditions were unseasonably mild which quickly melted most of the snow on the lower elevations. Beekeepers that winter their bees in California holding yards went down the end of January to check on the condition of the colonies. Most reported their bees came through the winter in good condition and still had feed from patties that were added the end of the year. NORTH CAROLINA Apiary activity was slow during the month. On the whole, January was a cold, wet month. Precipitation in the western part of the state was about 6" above normal. The western part of the state also experienced some heavy snowfalls during the last few days of the month. Amounts ranged from a few inches to around two feet. There have been some colony losses reported and the condition of the bees is variable. Some buds are beginning to swell and there will be some bloom in the eastern part of the state before too long. OKLAHOMA The bees have been working goldenrod. Bees colonies are reported to be in good condition. With the fluctuations in the weather, the bees may starve in the months ahead, we will have to wait and see what happens during February. Honey supplies are good but the demand is low. OREGON The first major storm of the season came on the 11 th when moist Pacific air met figid arctic air dumping snow and freezing rain over a section from Portland east along the Columbia River. 17" of snow was recorded in some sections of north-central Oregon along the Columbia Gorge closing the free for more than 24 hours. contrast, Southern Oregon had daytime highs of 47-50 degrees. On the 12th, Portiand's high of 28 degrees was their lowest on record for the date. Unsettled weather continued when winds gusts of 50-80 mph hit the coast. They also received additional rain, especially along the northwest coastline. Through the 25th, Astoria had received 15.32" or 187% of normal and Salem had accumulated 8.80" or 181 % of normal. The last two weeks of January were fairly mild in both Eastern and Western Oregon. Migratory beekeepers were busy getting their hives ready and hauling them to California before the almond bloom. The bees are reported to be wintering well but dry feed was added in case they get hungry before the almonds start to bloom. Hives were being unloaded on high ground near the orchards because all the rain in Northern California during January made the fields very muddy. Along the coast, some losses from mites were reported. On occasional warm, dry days, bees were seen bringing in pollen from pussywillows, hazelnut trees and camellias. TEXAS Bee colonies are presently reported to be in good condition. Bees were working various weeds. There was more rain which might cause a feeding problem later in the season. The was no honey flow. The demand for honey is only fair but available supplies remained good. WASHINGTON (state) Weather conditions were fairly normal the first of January. On the 11th, a winter storm moved across the state bringing heavy snow to areas of Western Washington that usually gets more rain than snow. Olympia received over 8", the Seattle area reported 3-4" and Yakima ended up with 8". The snow turned to freezing rain and sleet in Southwestern Washington and just plain rain in other areas. Yakima recorded 1.84" the week ending the 17th, 23% of their annual total. Unsettled weather continued across the state for much of the week. The remainder of the month was unseasonably mild with daytime highs in the 40's and 50's but occasional rainshowers were still fairly frequent across the state. The mild temperatures and an occasional sunny day in Western Washington allowed bees to leave the hives for cleansing flights. While spring plants are not blooming, the bees were still seen bringing in pollen. Most beekeepers in Eastern Washington were busy the end of the month either getting bees ready to move into the almonds or they were hauling the hives down. Despite wet conditions in California, the almond bloom is expected to start around the 15th. Nothing was blooming, except pussywidows, when the bees took cleansing flights. Those bees that were kept here over the winter were also seen out flying and eating up stores rapidly. Some beekeepers thought they may have to break open the hives and add more feed before they go to California. Losses in colonies setting in California since last fall are sometimes as high as 30-40%. Most of the losses have occurred in single hives that were started last fall and in some colonies that spent the summer in North and South Dakota. The losses are reported to have happened quickly and in colonies that had been treated for mites. The industry is still split over whether to retain the State Apiary Program. At a senate hearing on the 19th, an advisor to the State Agriculture Director presented their recommendations after meeting with a bee advisory committee. They would like to see the legislation changed to require mandatory registration for beekeepers with 5 or more hives rather than 25 or more. The committe decided top priority for the State Apiary Program should be to reduce damage to bees from pesticides, to offer technical assistance to beekeepers and encourage access to public lands for pasturing of bees. WISCONSIN The state enjoyed unseasonably waffn temperatures throughout the month. January 5th Milwaukee set a record high temperature. Most hives are reported over-wintering fairly well. Many beekeepers added extra candy boards due to the mild weather. The Varroa mite population appeared to remain high with some over-wintering kills blamed on mite infestations. REPRODUCED WITHOUT PERMISSION, USE AT OWN RISK. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 21:56:43 -0300 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Hugo Aguirre Subject: solidarity vs. recognition and gratitude Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Tere: =20 you posted Hello Everybody!! > > I=B4m reading about mite control with mineral oil, and it sure sounds > > interesting. > > I=B4m sure all beekeepers could benefit from these findings, but, I > > understand the researcher, Dr. Pedro Rodriguez, has made all of his work > > depending only on his family budget. That is not fair, I think. > > Why don=B4t EACH of us BEE-Lers contribute with..say..at least $10.00= Dlls > > to help him out??? > > That would mean "solidarity", Don=B4t you think so? > > > > Tere > > Mexico -----------------------------------------------HERE IS MY ANSWER No, I do not think so. Because that is not solidarity (an entire union of interests and responsabilities in a group). That is recognition, aknowledge to a person who worked (using his time and his money) searching solution for a own problem (his bees mites). Then, when he found it, he shared that solution with the fellow being who has the same problem (the rest of the beekeepers). That is the= important. Tere, as you see I am not with your "solidarity" but I approve your idea; let us to our conscience to choose how much we will recognize his work and to our possibilities in what way we can sent that to him. This is what I ('till now not FGMO user) think about your post. I relly would like to have other bee folks's ideas (FGMO users or FGMO not users). * Hugo Aguirre =3D=3D=3D> hugoagui@sguillermo.datacop3.com.ar * ********************************************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 15:59:20 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: The Bee Works Subject: Re: Essential oil In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 12 Feb 98 at 15:59, Roy Nettlebeck wrote: > I have been using essential oil mix for over a year.They are also > being > tested at Ohio State at the U level. > It has worked for me.No apistan used last year , except for > checking for > Varroa on a few hives. > I will have a better idea on how the fall treatment worked , when > I get > into my hives after the rain stops.Bee flight a week ago looked > good. That means very little , when it comes to Varroa.I have over > 100 hives at home to check. I'm at a 5-6% loss right now. The > moisture level in some of the hives has caused problems.I did not > have moisture excapes on all of the hives. > Vaporization is complex and varried to the enviornment.We are > talking > about a few drops to the quart then less that a ml per hive. At long last, some one who has or is using essential oils!!! A simple request, please, tell us what you're doing. Don't want you to commit yourself as to wether it works or not, just your decided method of application, and materials used. If not in open forum, then to me privately, please. ******************************************* The Bee Works, 9 Progress Dr, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1 Phone/fax 705-326-7171 David Eyre, Owner. http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks e-mail ******************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:18:01 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: George W Imirie Subject: Re: Worcester County (Ma) Beekeepers Irradiating Bee Hives Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Aaron: So very nice! I appreciate it. I like the way you write, and you are usually right on target 99% of the time. If I can help at any time, it is your option. Got to get back to my 25 colonies here at home; my age and 4 strokes have slowed me down just a tad. George ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 18:32:45 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Iannuzzi Subject: Re: Worcester County (Ma) Beekeepers Irradiating Bee Hives In-Reply-To: <980213.121930.EST.SYSAM@cnsibm.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Aaron Morris: "I may bee thinking that I'm turning into a Bob Dole." Aaron, my friend: I'd take a D O L E over a C L I N T O N any day! **John Iannuzzi, Ph.D. **38 years in apiculture **12 hives of Italian honeybees **At Historic Ellicott City, Maryland, 21042, U.S.A. (10 miles west of Baltimore, Maryland) [9772 Old Annapolis Rd - 410 730 5279] **"Forsooth there is some good in things evil For bees extract sweetness from the weed" -- Bard of Avon **Website: http://www.xmetric.com/honey **Email: jiannuzz@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us [1jan981031est] ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 02:20:14 -0800 Reply-To: gclewis@penn.com Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Gary C. Lewis" Subject: Where is the list. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What has the bee list gone to? Gary C. Lewis Duke Center, Pa. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 08:46:39 -0000 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Elias Gonzalez San juan Subject: Re: FDA/EPA approval for MO treatment? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all. Bruce King wrote: >> By the way, I did a quick literature search using Chem. Abstracts the = other >> night. Turns out that mineral oil has been used since the late = 1960's for >> generic mite treatment. I would suggest that we give proper credit = to the >> true 'fathers' of MO treatment, the ones who used it as a carrying = agent >> for the really potent pesticides and found that MO alone had an = effect on >> the mites. It is a very interesting matter. Where I can found this information?=20 Can you send to Bee-L or private e-mail to me a relation of names,=20 dates, articles and publications about the use of MO in 60=B4s decade?. Thank you. Elias Gonzalez. La Palma. Canary Islands. beepress@iedatos.es ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 12:04:42 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Cheaper Wax Greetings I just saw the post about cheap wax on the net. At present, the exchange rate from US$ to Zimbabwean dollars is about twenty zim to the dollar. That would meant that seeing as the going rate in zimbabwe for wax is just over Zim$ 20 a kilogram, you could get 2 pounds for US$1.00is, and then the postage will not be too much more. They also give a 10% discount for export orders. If anybody is interested in the address, post back onto the group and remind me and I can give the Address of John Rau and Sons, Zimbabwe on monday when I have my file with me. Keep well Garth --- Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Apis melifera capensis Grahamstown 800mm annual precipitation 6139 Eastern Cape South Africa Phone 27-0461-311663 On holiday for a few months Rhodes University Which means: working with bees 15 hours a day! Interests: Fliis and bees Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this post in no way reflect those of Rhodes University. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 21:20:57 PST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Re: Irradiating honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here in Australia, honey is irradiated for making candy. It can only be = used for this purpose as our Fedreal Government has decreeded that no foo= d for human consumption can be irradiated. When pails, which normally hold 27 kgs, about 60 pounds, are sent for irr= adiation, they can only be half filled as the honey froths in the contain= er. Any equipemnt which goes for irradiation in Australia has to have = honey extracted as Robert Bowman has previously posted. So it might not boil but it certainly froths up to almost double it origi= nal volume. Irradiation is a very good tool for sterilising equipment that has been = AFB affected. Incidentally, chalkbrood needs a greater dose rate to kill= it than does AFB. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 08:28:36 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Iannuzzi Subject: Re: FDA/EPA approval for MO treatment? In-Reply-To: <01BD3925.15CD6F40@iv130.iedatos.es> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE I don't think so, at least for the USA. We didn't have either mite, T-mite or V-mite, then? Hasta luego. juan On Sat, 14 Feb 1998, Elias Gonzalez San juan wrote: > Hi all. >=20 > Bruce King wrote: >=20 > >> By the way, I did a quick literature search using Chem. Abstracts the = other > >> night. Turns out that mineral oil has been used since the late 1960's= for > >> generic mite treatment. I would suggest that we give proper credit to= the > >> true 'fathers' of MO treatment, the ones who used it as a carrying age= nt > >> for the really potent pesticides and found that MO alone had an effect= on > >> the mites. >=20 > It is a very interesting matter. Where I can found this information?=20 > Can you send to Bee-L or private e-mail to me a relation of names,=20 > dates, articles and publications about the use of MO in 60=B4s decade?. >=20 > Thank you. >=20 > Elias Gonzalez. > La Palma. > Canary Islands. >=20 > beepress@iedatos.es >=20 **John Iannuzzi, Ph.D.=20 **38 years in apiculture =20 **12 hives of Italian honeybees **At Historic Ellicott City, Maryland, 21042, U.S.A. (10 miles west of Baltimore, Maryland) [9772 Old Annapolis Rd - 410 730 5279] **"Forsooth there is some good in things evil For bees extract sweetness from the weed" -- Bard of Avon=20 **Website: http://www.xmetric.com/honey=20 **Email: jiannuzz@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us [1jan981031est]=20 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 08:08:22 -0600 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Paul Bashore Subject: Re: FDA/EPA approval for MO treatment? In-Reply-To: <01BD3925.15CD6F40@iv130.iedatos.es> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At 08:46 AM 2/14/98 -0000, you wrote: > Hi all. > > Bruce King wrote: > >>> By the way, I did a quick literature search using Chem. Abstracts the other >>> night. Turns out that mineral oil has been used since the late 1960's= for >>> generic mite treatment. I would suggest that we give proper credit to= the >>> true 'fathers' of MO treatment, the ones who used it as a carrying agent >>> for the really potent pesticides and found that MO alone had an effect= on >>> the mites. > > It is a very interesting matter. Where I can found this information?=20 >Can you send to Bee-L or private e-mail to me a relation of names,=20 >dates, articles and publications about the use of MO in 60=B4s decade?. > Please e-mail me or to the Bee-l where I can find this information. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 11:14:56 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: HENRY BOLANOS <104047.270@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Essential oil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, We are using Wintergreen oil in Ct. and found that we also needed to treat for tracheal mites to get high survival rates. Don't ignore the use of Menthol. Regards, Henry ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 10:57:03 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "Bruce E. King" Subject: refs + EPA/FDA contacts In-Reply-To: <01BD3925.15CD6F40@iv130.iedatos.es> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > It is a very interesting matter. Where I can found this information?=20 >Can you send to Bee-L or private e-mail to me a relation of names,=20 >dates, articles and publications about the use of MO in 60=B4s decade?. See below. I like that way some people are waking up to the 'power of the internet' thing. As individuals we don't have a chance of performing the type of study needed to get EPA/FDA approval, but as a group there might be a chance as long as everyone involved follows the same protocols. It used to be that the internet was for scientists and defense guys to share research results and information, but now everyone is on so let's take advantage of it. =20 Let's not get discouraged about contacting these agencies. I looked up EPA and FDA contacts on the WWW this morning. Here are some pages and numbers to go after: http://www.epa.gov/opp00001/chemreg.htm http://www.epa.gov/PesticideApplication/ http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/~lrd/pestadd.html These are just a beginning. If we're really interested in making this work, it will take some effort. =20 This is just a sampling of what I found. If anyone is interested in more I can attach the full search or Endnote libraries of the search to private emails in a couple of days (Paul Bashore, you're already on the list). Few of these deal with the mites we're interested in, but the method of action should be similar. =20 AN 70:56677 CA TI Use of toxic chemicals to control the wintering stages phases of the fruit spider red ***mite*** (Metatetranylchus ulmi) and Brevipalpus oudemansi AU Gagunashvili, B. D. CS USSR SO Tr. Inst. Zashch. Rast., Tiflis (1967), 19, 341-8 CODEN: TIZRB2 DT Journal LA Georgian CC 19 (Pesticides) AB Tests carried out in winter showed that the application of 0.4-0.8% dinitro-o-cresol (DNOC) and mixts. of ***mineral*** ***oil*** and DNOC gives good results against the eggs of M. ulmi, but only after embryo development within the egg. Mixts. of DNOC and ***mineral*** ***oil*** are also effective against the adults of B. oudemansi. Good results can be obtained by using 15% emulsions of concd. polyvinyl acetate (PVA), which is not toxic but can supply a mech. action. ST mites dinitrocresol; dinitrocresol mites; Brevipalpus dinitrocresol IT Acaricides (dinitrocresol, for fruit spider red ***mite*** control) IT Brevipalpus (oudemansi, control of, by dinitrocresol) IT Metatetranychus (ulmi, control of, by dinitrocresol) IT 534-52-1 RL: BIOL (Biological study) (fruit spider red ***mite*** control by) AN 84:70301 CA TI Possibility of decreasing the number of pesticide treatments in citrus orchards AU Geguchadze, A. V. CS USSR SO Tr. Nauchno-Issled. Inst. Zashch. Rast. (Tiflis) (1974), 26, 237-45 CODEN: TNIRDM DT Journal LA Georgian CC 5-4 (Agrochemicals) AB The no. of necessary treatments in citrus orchards was decreased from 6 to 4, by increasing prepn. 30 [11111-66-3] concn. from 2 to 3%, and by including zineb [12122-67-7] into the compns. Zineb was effective against the silver ***mite*** . Concomitantly the Bi 58 [60-51-5] content was decreased from 0.2 to 0.05%, so as to decrease the toxicity of the mixts. to beneficial entomophages and acariphages such as Cryptolemus, Lindorus, Stetorus, Tydeus and Phytoseidae. Zineb and ***mineral*** ***oil*** emulsions were the least toxic to the beneficial predators and parasites. ST citrus zineb Bi 58; insect predator insecticide IT Hydrocarbon oils RL: BIOL (Biological study) (pest control by, on citrus trees) IT 12122-67-7 RL: BIOL (Biological study) (Phyllocoptes oleivorus control by, on citrus trees) IT 60-51-5 11111-66-3 RL: BIOL (Biological study) (pest control by, on citrus trees) AN 105:20496 CA TI Control of rust ***mite*** in citrus AU De Oliveira, Carlos Amadeu L. CS Dep. Defesa Fitossanit., UNESP, Jaboticabal, Brazil SO Pesqui. Agropecu. Bras. (1985), 20(3), 277-89 CODEN: PEABBT; ISSN: 0079-1121 DT Journal LA Portuguese CC 5-4 (Agrochemical Bioregulators) AB The miticidal action of MK 936 (avermectin) [71751-41-2] SL and EC formulations applied isolately or in mixt. with ***mineral*** ***oil*** , in the control of the rust ***mite*** (Phyllocoptruta oleivora) in a citrus orchard, and their effects on the predator ***mite*** population were examd. MK 936 SL and EC were equally efficient in the control of the rust ***mite*** . The mixt. with ***mineral*** ***oil*** showed better efficiency and was active for a longer time. MK 936 was similar to chlorobenzilate [510-15-6] in efficiency. Dicofol [115-32-2] was very efficient in the control of rust ***mite*** , but caused a marked resurgence of the ***mite*** . ST citrus rust ***mite*** acaricide MK936; avermectin citrus rust ***mite*** ; Phyllocoptruta acaricide citrus MK936 IT Phyllocoptruta oleivora (control of, by MK936 formulations, in citrus) IT Orange (rust ***mite*** control in, by MK936 formulations) IT Orchard (citrus, rust ***mite*** control by, in citrus) IT 71751-41-2 RL: BIOL (Biological study) (rust ***mite*** control by, in citrus) IT 115-32-2 510-15-6 RL: BIOL (Biological study) (rust ***mite*** control by, in citrus, MK936 formulations in relation to) AN 84:116839 CA TI Action of white oil on the hibernation stage of Dialeurodes citri on lemon trees AU Liotta, G.; Maniglia, G. CS Ist. Entomol. Agrar., Univ. Palermo, Palermo, Italy SO Meded. Fac. Landbouwwet., Rijksuniv. Gent (1975), 40(2, Pt. 1), 323-7 CODEN: MFLRA3 DT Journal LA French CC 5-3 (Agrochemicals) AB At the end of winter, spraying lemon trees with 3% ***mineral*** ***oil*** caused 50% mortality of the 4th-instar larvae of D. citri, compounding the natural 45% hibernation mortality. The treatment was not toxic for the coccinellid Clitostethus arcuatus, the most important predator of D. citri. The same treatment may control other harmful arthropods, esp. scales and the bud ***mite*** Aceria sheldoni. ST ***mineral*** ***oil*** lemon Dialeurodes IT Petroleum spirits RL: BIOL (Biological study) (Dialeurodes citri control by, on lemon) IT Lemon (Dialeurodes citri control on, by ***mineral*** ***oil*** ) IT Dialeurodes citri (control of, on lemon, by ***mineral*** ***oil*** ) AN 118:228223 CA TI Effectiveness of Sun oil and OPA-E oil for control of citrus rust mites (Phyllocoptruta oleivora Ashm.) in oranges AU Moreira, Celio S. CS Fruticult. - Esc. Super. Agric. Luiz de Queiroz, Spain SO Rev. Agric. (Piracicaba, Braz.) (1992), 67(3), 237-49 CODEN: RAPCAW; ISSN: 0034-7655 DT Journal LA Portuguese CC 5-4 (Agrochemical Bioregulators) AB This paper deals with the study of emulsive oil as an alternative to the acaricides used for the rusty ***mite*** (P. oleivora) control in citrus orchards. Two types of emulsive oil were compared: the American SUN oil and the Brazilian OPA-E oil. The expt. was carried out in an orchard of 20 yr old com. varieties of orange of high yields, which receives a good treatment, including irrigation. Both products were studied as preventive and curative controls. The results indicated that both oils are effective for the ***mite*** control. However SUN oil gave a longer protection against the rusty ***mite*** and this difference was more evident in the curative treatment. ST citrus rust ***mite*** control ***mineral*** ***oil*** ; OPA E oil citrus rust ***mite*** IT Hydrocarbon oils RL: BIOL (Biological study) (citrus rusty ***mite*** control by) IT Orange (citrus rusty ***mite*** control in, by Sun and OPA-E oils) IT Phyllocoptruta oleivora (control of, on orange, by Sun and OPA-E oils) AN 74:139963 CA TI Control of winter eggs of Panonychus ulmi (Acarina: Tetranychidae) and Bryobia rubrioculus (Acarina: Tetranychidae) by M2060 (2-fluoroethyl 4-biphenylyl) acetate) and other products in Lebanon AU Musa, Sami; Dosse, Gudo CS Montecatini Edison Agency, Beirut, Lebanon SO Can. Entomol. (1971), 103(1), 130-6 CODEN: CAENAF DT Journal LA English CC 19 (Pesticides) AB P. ulmi and B. rubrioculus are serious pests on apple trees in Lebanon. The effectiveness of M2060-oil (I) (2% fluoroethyl 4-biphenylacetate, 70% petroleum oil, 10% tar oil, and 18% carriers and emulsifiers), Ovamort (2.4% DNOC + 70% petroleum oil), Diotol (1.0% DNOC + 30% wt./vol. neutral ***mineral*** ***oil*** ), Genite, and Citronol (95-97% wt./vol. petroleum oil) were investigated on the winter eggs of these 2 mites in the lab. and in the field. I was highly effective and superior to all products at early and late dormant stages of tree growth. The nearer to egg hatch the other products were applied, the more effective they were. The use of petroleum oil as insecticide should be reexamd., since the oil does not leave toxic residues and causes no insect resistance. ST fluoroethylate petroleum oil ***mite*** egg; ***mite*** egg petroleum oil fluoroethylate; apple ***mite*** petroleum oil; insecticide apple ***mite*** egg; petroleum oil ***mite*** egg; Bryobia egg petroleum oil fluoroethylate; Panonychus egg petroleum oil fluoroethylate IT Hydrocarbon oils, biological studies RL: BIOL (Biological study) (Bryobia rubrioculus and Panonychus ulmi control by) IT Insecticides (forBryobia rubrioculus and Panonychus ulmi control) IT Bryobia (rubrioculus, control of) IT Panonychus (ulmi, control of) IT 97-16-5 534-52-1 4301-50-2 RL: BIOL (Biological study) (Bryobia rubrioculus and Panonychus ulmi control by) AN 121:127783 CA TI Controlling tracheal mites (Acari: Tarsonemidae) in colonies of honey bees (Hymenoptera: Apidae) with vegetable ***oil*** and menthol AU Delaplane, Keith S. CS Coll. Agric. and Environ. Sci., Univ. Georgia, Athens, GA, 30602, USA SO J. Econ. Entomol. (1992), 85(6), 2118-24 CODEN: JEENAI; ISSN: 0022-0493 DT Journal LA English CC 5-4 (Agrochemical Bioregulators) AB The efficacy of vegetable ***oil*** and menthol was tested in controlling tracheal mites (Acarapis woodi [Rennie]) in honey bees (Apis mellifera L.). Each of 40 ***bee*** colonies was given one of four treatments: (1) vegetable ***oil*** shortening, (2) menthol, (3) vegetable ***oil*** shortening and menthol, or (4) no treatment (control). Colonies were sampled for percentage bees infested and severity of infestation per infested ***bee*** on nine dates from 14 Feb. to 7 August 1991. Treatments were applied on 27 Feb. and removed on 18 Apr. On 3 Apr., mite infestation was reduced in the ***oil*** shortening + menthol treatment. On every sampling date after 3 Apr., infestation was reduced by all ***oil*** shortening or menthol treatments. Compared with menthol, vegetable ***oil*** shortening gave equiv. mite control on all sampling dates. From 3 Apr. through 9 May, infestation was lowest in the ***oil*** shortening + menthol treatment. Except for one sampling date, severity of infestation per infested ***bee*** was unaffected by treatments. ST honeybee mite menthol shortening IT Acarapis woodi (control of, on honeybees, by menthol-shortening mixt.) IT Acaricides (menthol-shortening mixt., Acarapis woodi control by, on honeybees) IT Shortening RL: BIOL (Biological study) (mite control by, on honeybees) IT Honeybee (mite control on, by menthol-shortening mixt.) IT 89-78-1, Menthol 156985-39-6 RL: BIOL (Biological study) (mite control by, on honeybees) AN 123:191132 CA TI Evaluation of four seed-derived oils as controls for Acarapis woodi (Acari: Tarsonemidae) in colonies of Apis mellifera (Hymenoptera: Apidae) AU Calderone, Nicholas W.; Shimanuki, Hachiro CS Bee Research Laboratory, BARC East, Beltsville, MD, 20705, USA SO J. Econ. Entomol. (1995), Volume Date 1995, 88(4), 805-9 CODEN: JEENAI; ISSN: 0022-0493 DT Journal LA English CC 5-4 (Agrochemical Bioregulators) AB Four seed-derived oils were evaluated in field trials as control agents for the parasitic tracheal mite, Acarapis woodi (Rennie), in colonies of the honey ***bee*** , Apis mellifera (L.). Seventy-one honey been colonies infested with the tracheal mite were each assigned to 1 of 4 treatment groups or to a control group. Treatments were peanut, soybean, sunflower, or canola ***oil*** , delivered as patties after blending with confectioner sugar (2 parts sugar/1 part ***oil*** [wt:wt]). All 5 groups had similar mite prevalence values (proportion of infested bees) and parasite load scores (a measure of the no. of mites per ***bee*** ) before initiating treatment. Each colony received five 500-g patties delivered approx. every 14 d starting on 16 Sept. 1992 and continuing until 1 Dec. 1992. Mite prevalence values, parasite load scores, and colony wt. gains (an indicator of honey prodn.) were measured the following spring. Av. mite prevalence values obtained on 4 and 5 May 1993 in the treated groups ranged from 0.015 to 0.027, compared with 0.094 in the control group. The mite prevalence value in each treatment group was less than the mite prevalence value in the control group. Similar differences were obsd. for parasite load scores. Differences in colony wt. gains among the 5 groups were not significant. ST vegetable ***oil*** control Acarapis honeybee IT Acarapis woodi Honeybee (seed-derived oils as controls for Acarapis woodi in colonies of Apis mellifera) IT Canola ***oil*** Peanut ***oil*** Soybean ***oil*** Sunflower ***oil*** RL: BAC (Biological activity or effector, except adverse); BIOL (Biological study) (seed-derived oils as controls for Acarapis woodi in colonies of Apis mellifera) ________________________________________________________________ Bruce King = beking@selway.umt.edu Department of Chemistry phone: (406) 542-2993 University of Montana fax: (406) 243-4227 Missoula, MT 59812 =20 ________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 13:36:25 -0500 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" Organization: Independent non-profit research Subject: Re: refs + EPA/FDA contacts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hurray. Excellent! So Mineral Oil is recognized as a valid acaricide! I must thank Mr. King for an excellent piece of literary research. I must admit that I would have loved to have had this information two or three yeas ago. Regardless of the fact that Mineral Oil may been used in the past as an acaricide, I haven't seen anyone explain the bilogic-physiologic reason why mineral oil is an effective acaricide, Dr. Pedro Rodriguez did! Dr. Pedro Rodriguez, through intensive analytical deduction proposed and tested the hypothesis of how mineral oil effectively blocks the surface pores of the mites, thus depriving the mites of oxygen and water necessary for the mites to live. Thanks again, Mr. King, for your valuable information. Your report corroborates my hypothesis. Mineral oil does work as an acaricide! I never had any doubts! Shortly, my work, together with that of many others now engaged in testing the effectiveness of mineral oil for bee mites control will provide the means to every beekeeper in the world to get rid of the pesky mites. As previously announced on this list service, I am now working on the final testing stage of application of mineral oil for commercial beekeepers. Mr. King's report should ease the minds of those who doubted the veracity of my findings. I am sure that other investigators with more financial support and larger and better facilities than mine will have a "field day" testing the efficacy of mineral oil for bee mites control. Thank the Lord Almighty for little favors. Joyful regards. Dr. Rodriguez Virginia Beach, VA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 13:40:30 -0500 Reply-To: dronebee@norfolk.infi.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: "\\Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" Organization: Independent non-profit research Subject: Re: Mineral Oil as an acaricide. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If anyone is interested, I have a 35 lbs. crow and a case of tissues ready for delivery. Cheers! Dr. Rodriguez ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 13:58:23 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Midnitebee Subject: Re: Cheaper Wax MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings! Yes.,beeswax is cheaper on the other side of the ocean. I have received beeswax from Africa &China. The buyer needs to be aware of import costs:customs fees,bokers fees,transportation costs. 2/lbs for a $1 sounds great until you add the above costs. You can obtain a brokers liscense for about $300. Read the Custom brochures on import charges for beeswax..US Customs has a web site..don't know it right of hand..do a search thru Yahoo. ALSO:VERY IMPORTANT to know what this "wax" contains! there is a listing of beeswax sellers at my web site.. Herb(midnitebee) Holly-B Apiary P.O.Box 26 Wells,Maine 04090-0026 www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee -----Original Message----- From: Garth To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Date: Saturday, February 14, 1998 5:06 AM Subject: Cheaper Wax >Greetings > >I just saw the post about cheap wax on the net. > >At present, the exchange rate from US$ to Zimbabwean dollars is about >twenty zim to the dollar. > >That would meant that seeing as the going rate in zimbabwe for wax is >just over Zim$ 20 a kilogram, you could get 2 pounds for US$1.00is, >and then the postage will not be too much more. > >They also give a 10% discount for export orders. > >If anybody is interested in the address, post back onto the group >and remind me and I can give the Address of John Rau and Sons, >Zimbabwe on monday when I have my file with me. > >Keep well > >Garth > >--- >Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries >15 Park Road Apis melifera capensis >Grahamstown 800mm annual precipitation >6139 >Eastern Cape >South Africa Phone 27-0461-311663 > >On holiday for a few months Rhodes University >Which means: working with bees 15 hours a day! >Interests: Fliis and bees >Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this post in no way >reflect those of Rhodes University. > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 20:10:39 +0200 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Rimantas Zujus Subject: Re: mites Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BD3984.9F7D57A0" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD3984.9F7D57A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Robert Reacently I've read that 50 % of V mites hatcing of a comb cell fall = down on the bottom of the hive. Later they climb a bee or a cell. All = you need is a some kind of flat box. It consists of a sheet of paper on = the bottom coverred with any glue ( for e.g. the same oil ) and a net is = a little bit higher ( apr 1 cm ). Your bees can't touch the seased mites = and help them. I saw the tin-plate boxes. If you irritate your bees with the same garlic oil or something like it = your yield will be higher. Best regards Rimantas Zujus Kaunas LITHUANIA e-mail : zujus@isag.lei.lt http://www.online.lt/indexs.htm Latitude 55 Deg North Longitude 24 Deg East ---------- From: Robert e butcher Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 1998 7:34 PM To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Subject: mites Hi all, been reading about different ways to treat the mites. My partner = has been using Tea Tree and Wintergreen oils in canola oil applied to = ordinary paper towel rite above the brood and we use blue shop = papertowel taped to a strip of tile put at the entrance of the hive.It = will be two years in May. We have noticed on the owels alot of dead = mites, we also have seen evidence of mites in the brood ection, but not = on the bees themselves. We also have tried garlic oil it kills the mites too. We work both with = Italian and African hybrids,with same results. This spring we''re going = to use smaller comb size(4.9cm.) it has been tested for the control of = the mites here in Tucson, Az.. IMHO I believe we should get ahead of the this year. Well at least we = have a fighting chance at them. May the Good Lord Bless and Multiply you Bees BoB _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD3984.9F7D57A0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IikSAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAMAEAAAEAAAAMAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAATwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAERpc2N1c3Npb24gb2Yg QmVlIEJpb2xvZ3kAU01UUABCRUUtTEBDTlNJQk0uQUxCQU5ZLkVEVQAAHgACMAEAAAAFAAAAU01U UAAAAAAeAAMwAQAAABgAAABCRUUtTEBDTlNJQk0uQUxCQU5ZLkVEVQADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAA HgABMAEAAAAcAAAAJ0Rpc2N1c3Npb24gb2YgQmVlIEJpb2xvZ3knAAIBCzABAAAAHQAAAFNNVFA6 QkVFLUxAQ05TSUJNLkFMQkFOWS5FRFUAAAAAAwAAOQAAAAALAEA6AQAAAAIB9g8BAAAABAAAAAAA AAIENQEEgAEACgAAAFJFOiBtaXRlcwATAwEFgAMADgAAAM4HAgAOABQACgAnAAYAMAEBIIADAA4A AADOBwIADgATACYAIAAGAEQBAQmAAQAhAAAAQ0VDNzYyOEM0N0E1RDExMUI4RjQ0NDQ1NTM1NDAw MDAA8wYBA5AGAEgIAAAUAAAACwAjAAAAAAADACYAAAAAAAsAKQAAAAAAAwAuAAAAAAADADYAAAAA AEAAOQAgHSvbczm9AR4AcAABAAAACgAAAFJFOiBtaXRlcwAAAAIBcQABAAAAFgAAAAG9OXPbIYxi x8+lRxHRuPRERVNUAAAAAB4AHgwBAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAfDAEAAAASAAAAenVqdXNAaXNh Zy5sZWkubHQAAAADAAYQbuPrzQMABxCJBQAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAAREVBUlJPQkVSVFJFQUNFTlRM WUlWRVJFQURUSEFUNTAlT0ZWTUlURVNIQVRDSU5HT0ZBQ09NQkNFTExGQUxMRE9XTk9OVEhFQk9U VE9NT0ZUSEVISVZFTEFURVJUSEVZQ0xJTQAAAAACAQkQAQAAAMwGAADIBgAAPAwAAExaRnUicgk8 /wAKAQ8CFQKkA+QF6wKDAFATA1QCAGNoCsBzZXRuMgYABsMCgzIDxRGXMVQ4NgAAKgLhYQeAICcH EwKABxMgQgdAdGmKYwKDMxMHcHJxEvFDE5gSMXN0ZW0CgzT3A8YU1QHxNRZvE78UzxXW3jYTDxtv HH8CADcRJxqP3x73B20CgAdtFZo4Hb8X0V0P/X0KgAjPCdk7KR8yPDU1AoAKgQ2xC2BuZ3gxMDYW UAsKEvIMAWOxAEAgRGUKwQgAYgSQVnQKhQqFUi4QYwnwdMBseSBJJ3YfYCkgMGFkIHQRwAVANTB3 CuELYywEMxZRGLItlSUAIG9mIFYgbWlXGDAEIDDhYwuAZzMiYU4gBaAG0DSgZWwDIGbjB0ADIGRv dwOgAiAwwT8fYAbgAkADcDMiNiJoafEwUC4gTDDwBJA2EjAQ/GNsB3A04DSQLnAfYAWxVzSRNRE3 gEE1IXkIYCDebgngMLAEADSBcwNwH2B+awuAMLAzMSvxBUAG4Hj9N4BJBUAFoACBGCAEIDRj3zrQ NjASADMiCrBwN9E1/OsFoDBQcikhIAPwMNA0gMpuMBBnCkEgKDVABbGtN3BnN4A2InMfQm8DEf4p QBEwsDSQOkAFQDqTOGDdAkBsNkEzkDcxZzYwBcCvQLA+EAXALeBjNrApN4CuWQhhOMIEIGMAcCcF QP02kHURsEFULhAR8DCwM4TTQlI2MGxwNhJtPDFBkecH4DYiFdBuLQtRGDA78rUHkC4uvEkzQDoC aT+AvzOQSaI6AUV1P9NBZ2cKwP04YGNB4wWxOuIw0DQiOGCuax9gQ8FMI3kIkGw/su81IS5wQ+VK PUIHkAVAKSD5TaFkcy68Co8LkSEBLYYeUgdwAHABkAQgWnVqYnVS1kthdR8wUtZMAElUSFVBTklB GS68ZS0AwAMROiB6tVZSQAQAYUEwQ4BpWnAvLqYLRhniLZVoAkBwOugvL3dc8C4CIDhgOkBlWrEv O0FleEogXIBt91dmMPAzkHUNsD1QPVArYGst8TRATijBaFdmAiBn6V8UMjRfw0VHAFrYCxh/Mc8t wlrtLVliKzhgHrAwwQLRaS0xNDQN8AzQv2ezC1wW8DZwBZAFQC1p1/da7QvHaVZGA2FZsGhvaXTv DIIuRUEANlB1NABEIWp/32uNBmACMGy/bctXCYA6QCBzZGF5LGxgZWJMcnUKwDAQMTF0QDGAOTk4 IDc6M2GAzFBNb59rjVRvcd9tywBCRUUtTEBDTgBTSUJNLkFMQsFYIFkuRURVdf9wrvh1YmppkXgf bcszg1NfOWbjMzZoVx2iaSlIaf80gDUgdEA40QOgMII0IgGg/whgBUCEAA3QBJAv0T/AdCD/BCA2 kDDAMIFGITYxM4M3gPZNMBBT8XQ6QAXAEcAEIPeDg1ZwNCJULhAjMAnRQkP+VwuAN8EJw0HiBCAL gEXS/wbwNJBB8j4QC1AIkDCxhbDfBbCEAXSyPgQ2kHc1EDBw/zORhEIwUTYjA2AEcEJDjQDviBE2 QUByPXBvSCA+A4zk/wGQPiCLozrBhdAFIDbDAxDdH2BwhIGGBS/RcgBwL8CnNss8UVBWdHeFsHku Ef2KQ010IDeAc7Az0TBRirD/FdE6YTX1MyCNATqhKLA9s/8NsDChM4N0QI7RB0A64JYU4xHwg6Fl dmkNsJMlM4TvimGN+EEAaaBpAiCDYYSB35ZxNedFokhCEfBsMFBKJ/+V8ZlIkVE6YU2pQ8E7MDUg N53TM3U2kG+V05Tgcmv/NlJAAD/TPFAHQAcwA6BCUs5BA1AV4AORaHl0gJpQz5jgP9NBoykgc3UV wIaxdlQ3QAQgcxbwNCKNACd+JykgQFBB8DQxhaGPAnMfAMA1IDfRNLMAkHplKOg0LjlE4C5CMEPC h6b/M6EYMDCwQNI2IjyBhdAG8O82xjOFhPGKUlRGYDrgnIEIQXouSjZJTUhP/0iRLnCLcTBRjtGP kaYgoCH9PaFhNjAwoTbVTsEEIJUS/5XSNSEw8UOAYfGOwpYjNJD/Z4BEEElBNEARsZMihgRIcO9i JbWGlaE2E0eOUmDQCyDvFZBDgAQRQlJNpiEFIDABHzoCUiB/7rUtuntCb0L9LrxfvJ+9r76/v89i JUVB/zWRRgI6Q4WhbyAwEYlyQrL/ANAvwAQRqBUDUDjhwrdZRP1KNkc9oTSxC1ASADUQMBDnxCNZ RQNSIEpXIJEBQ9G3XJhWYIqwLjSxYiVPqOEbNWLH5ihnQUIwNjU0UC1KVU6vAFvLYjX5HsA2Xbjv gK9lO2lWYiUFKEEA0LADABAQAAAAAAMAERABAAAAQAAHMCCGa15vOb0BQAAIMCCGa15vOb0BHgA9 AAEAAAAFAAAAUkU6IAAAAAADAA00/TcAAIW2 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD3984.9F7D57A0-- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 13:18:26 -0600 Reply-To: rcanaday@ionet.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Roy Canaday Subject: Re: For your eating pleasure MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit After some discussion at a local 'gathering' this morning, I admitted to seeing a recipe for wax moth larvae. FOOT IN MOUTH. Larvae probably taste a lot better. Anyway, found it in BEE-L archives under the above subject, but the parent link was bad. The original wax moth larvae recipe was posted to BEE-l on 97/08/06. For others, go to http://www.orkin.com/ and select 'Bug Cuisine' for an array of interesting recipes, including Bee Grubs in Coconut Cream. Also came across a very well done page on eating drone pulpa (sic) at http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/maaltijd.html (hiccup) (hiccup) Happy Valentines Day. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 14:47:48 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: George W Imirie Subject: Re: Bee/Keeper Brains and Sex Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Stan: Your remarks are like a breath of fresh air. I compliment you! In spite of being disabled by strokes, I still teach advanced beekeeping FREE where ever I am asked. May I have permission to use some of your writing in my talks? It would really aid in my constant efforts to UPGRADE beeHAVERS into beeKEEPERS. George Imirie Retired atomic nuclear physicist !00 colony scientific hobbyist since 1933 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 15:03:49 EST Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: George W Imirie Subject: Re: Essential oil Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Roy: Your last line was: "Good science takes time". What a wise man! My compliments to you. Dr. Nick Calderone, formerly with the Beltsville ARS lab, is the replacement for Dr. Roger Morse at Cornell University; and he has devoted at least the last 10 years of research on essential oils. I have talked with Nick about this work on several occasions and "NOT PUTTING WORDS IN HIS MOUTH", he has not been able to recommend the use of essential yet based on scientific findings. Why don't you write to Nick and perhaps you could learn more. And YOU keep up your good thinking! George Imirie, retired scientist, my 65th year with bees ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 15:47:46 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: sterilizing chalkbrood Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Trevor and All: >Irradiation is a very good tool for sterilising equipment that has been AFB >affected. Incidentally, chalkbrood needs a greater dose rate to kill it >than does AFB. Interesting. What is the response of chalkbrood to other methods of sterilization? For example, if you are using acetic acid fumigation to sterilize for nosema, what will the effect be on chalkbrood? Regards, Stan ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 19:51:42 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: John Iannuzzi Subject: Re: Essential oil In-Reply-To: <199802141115_MC2-334D-AF2D@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hola everybody, I have NEVER used menthol in 37 consecutive years of apiculture. Suum cuique? Nor have I ever used oil of wintergreen. Of course, I've never had more than 30 hives at one time. I've always used a paper towel saturated w/ vegetable oil for T-mite treatment. It has the same effect as Crisco patties w/ terramycin--which I'ved never used. Of course, each beekeeper is different? I beelieve in doingit the easy and fast way. Jack in Maryland On Sat, 14 Feb 1998, HENRY BOLANOS wrote: > Hi, > We are using Wintergreen oil in Ct. and found that we also needed to treat > for tracheal mites to get high survival rates. > Don't ignore the use of Menthol. > Regards, > Henry > **John Iannuzzi, Ph.D. **38 years in apiculture **12 hives of Italian honeybees **At Historic Ellicott City, Maryland, 21042, U.S.A. (10 miles west of Baltimore, Maryland) [9772 Old Annapolis Rd - 410 730 5279] **"Forsooth there is some good in things evil For bees extract sweetness from the weed" -- Bard of Avon **Website: http://www.xmetric.com/honey **Email: jiannuzz@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us [1jan981031est] ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 18:12:33 -0700 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Robert e butcher Subject: smaller comb The test results were published in the December 1997 issue of American Bee Journal. Additional info: In January 1998 issue of Bee Culture. If you can't get to them ,email me direct and give me your address and i will send you a copy of the articles. Robert _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 21:38:56 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave from Scranton Subject: Re: Honey containing pollen Comments: To: beeman In-Reply-To: <34D26D0A.EBB2BE89@vci.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 30 Jan 1998, beeman wrote: > Hi all! i had the same problem with my honey crop last year, but a man > called about buying honey and i told all i had was cloudy honey he came > over and said it was pollenated honey and bought 12 cases at a higher > price, people have been calling wanting it again... I have a health food store that has requested that it NOT be pasteurized, NOT be filtered and IN glass bottles. So I strained the dead bees and bee parts out with a fine kitchen strainer... ****************************************************************************** Dave D. Cawley | Where a social revolution is pending and, The Internet Cafe | for whatever reason, is not accomplished, Web Development Group | reaction is the alternative. Scranton, Pennsylvania | (717) 344-1969 | -Daniel De Leon dave@www.scranton.com | ****************************************************************************** URL => http://www.scranton.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 21:42:08 -0500 Reply-To: Discussion of Bee Biology Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Dave from Scranton Subject: Re: Wallpaper search In-Reply-To: <01bd3065$e0409180$610737a6@asdf> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 2 Feb 1998, Patrick & Mary Caldwell wrote: > Hi Brenda... > > I, too, have searched the net for bee wallpaper to no avail... I want to do > the same to my kitchen! Please e-mail me if you find a bee wallpaper > source, and I will do the same should I find one first! If you have a Lowe's hardware outlet by you in a book of "country accents" by some woman (it's been quite a while) type patterns there is one with honey bees on the border. ****************************************************************************** Dave D. Cawley | Where a social revolution is pending and, The Internet Cafe | for whatever reason, is not accomplished, Web Development Group | reaction is the alternative. Scranton, Pennsylvania | (717) 344-1969 | -Daniel De Leon dave@www.scranton.com | ****************************************************************************** URL => http://www.scranton.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 09:02:30 -0800 Reply-To: richard@centex.net Sender: Discussion of Bee Biology From: Richard Harkey Organization: Harkey's Honey Subject: Mites ? ? ? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To Mr. and Mrs. Beekeeper: A few weeks ago I visited the Texas Bee Association meeting in Plano, Texas to learn more about the mites that are a problem with the Bee Keeper. As a little background, for your information, we have worked with cotton farmers for several years, showing them how to use GOD'S promises to control insects in their fields. To get us started, Jesus said in John 10:10, "The thief comes only to steal, to kill and to destroy, but I have come to bring them life in its fullness." About 400 years before JESUS'S birth, in Malachi, chapter 3 and 4, GOD made some terrific promises concerning what HE called the proud, the arrogant, evildoers, and the wicked, and the lawless. In chaptors 14, 15 and 16 of the book of John, JESUS outlines what HE will do for, and with us, to make us victorious over Satan and the things Satan sends against us. In the first three verses of Malachi 4, GOD said that these forces, the proud, the arrogant, the wicked and lawless would burn as in an oven, leaving neither root or branch. I believe the mites and other insects you deal with would be covered in these names and promises concerning their destruction. I recommend that you also read again verse 3 of chapter 4 in order to realize the power and authority that is yours through JESUS. If you are interested, study these scriptures seriously, and if you believe GOD'S and JESUS'S promises, you have the essential requirments, to be victorious over the Beekeeper's enemies. The scriptures outlined in this letter are by no means all the scriptures on this subject. Should you need help, or encouragement, please feel free to contact me. Unless you contact us, we will not contact you again. Should you live in a climate that is warm enough to open hives, I would like to work with you in order to see how quickly the varroa mite dies. It is too cold in our area to check this. Thank you for the courtesy of taking time to consider this letter, and we pray that GOD will open the windows of Heaven and pour out a blessing that is too large for you to receive it all. Malachi 3:10 May GOD Richly Bless You, Doyle Black 42671 U.S. 70 Phone or Fax 505-356-6118 Portales, NM 88130 Mobil Phone: 505-760-6101