========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 22:28:17 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." Subject: The Plight of the Bumblebee Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" GenevaThis article mentions a potential mite control: "Frank Eischon, an entomologist at the USDA's Agricultural Research Service in Weslaco, Texas, has discovered that smoke from creosote bushes and grapefruit leaves can dislodge varroa mites (the more virulent of the two types) from their hosts, but his findings are only preliminary." Has anyone heard more info on this study? Paul Cronshaw Hobby beekeeper in Santa Barbara, CA ******* The Plight of the Bumblebee By Douglas McInnis With bees and other pollinators disappearing at an alarming rate, our fruits and vegetables may be in jeopardy. EACH FALL, Hawaiian biologists from the National Tropical Botanical Garden rappel over the edge of some of the world's tallest sea cliffs. Dangling from ropes 3,000 feet above the Pacific Ocean, they carefully brush pollen onto a few trumpet-shaped flowers clinging to the cliffs. The Hawaiian flowers are two rare species of Brighamia, of which only about 200 plants remain in the wild. Scientists believe the blossoms were once pollinated by a type of moth that is now extinct. No other pollinator has taken its place, so without the annual intervention of death defying human pollinators, the plants face extinction. If the Hawaiian moth were the only missing pollinator, scientists might take little notice. But it is not. Habitat destruction, agricultural chemicals, and other human influences are taking a heavy toll on the world's pollinators. In the United States, the most obvious sign of trouble is the decimation of the honeybee, the chief pollinator for commercial farms as well as backyard gardens. During the past three years' beekeepers nationwide have lost about half of their hives to a lethal combination of pesticides, two types of parasitic mites, and harsh winter weather. Wild honeybees have fared even worse; an estimated 90 percent have died. Worldwide, losses are also mounting among many lesser known pollinators, such as monarch butterflies, wasps, flies, beetles, and vertebrate species-- including hummingbirds, flying foxes, geckos, and weasels. Although some plants-notably grains and cereals-are pollinated by wind, the vast majority rely on insects or other animals for pollination. About 90 percent of the world's 250,000 flowering plant species, including at least 800 species that are cultivated by humans for food, need pollinators. More than 100 of these food crops including squash, cranberries, blueberries, and cashews -depend heavily on wild pollinators, whose value to agriculture has been conservatively estimated at more than $4 billion per year. Many other plants, including carrots, can yield fruits or vegetables without pollinators but need them to produce seeds for future crops. And some important medicinal plants, including foxglove (from which the heartstimulating drug digitalis is derived), also depend on animal pollination. Without animal pollinated fruits and vegetables, our diets would be high in carbohydrates and low in vitamins, minerals, and antioxidants. "Believe me, a diet based entirely upon wind pollinated foods such as rice, barley, oats, sorghum, corn, and millet is pretty boring," says Stephen Buchmann, a U.S. Agriculture Department researcher and coauthor of The Forgotten Pollinators. Too often, an endangered species of pollinator is nearly extinct by the time a public alarm sounds. And until recently, few scientists even noticed the larger trend."I had no way of knowing that what I saw with flying foxes in Samoa was happening in Ontario with bees," says Brigham Young University botanist Ian Cox, who has documented losses of flying foxes, a large bat that is an important pollinator of Pacific island rainforests. "We always saw-pollination as a little tidbit of natural history and never realized that it had ecosystem-wide consequences." To understand why pollinators are so critical, it's important to know how pollination works. In a nutshell, pollination is the way plants have sex. Some plants don't need a partner; they have all the equipment for both the male and female roles, and can pollinate themselves. But most plants require a middleman to bring pollen from the male part of one plant to the female part of another. Animals play this role inadvertently, picking up pollen as they feed on nectar, and spreading the pollen from plant to plant. The better the pollinator does the job, the more seeds are produced and the higher the yield or the better the fruit. When one pollinator is lost, another may take its place. But the replacement may not be as effective, because the plant-pollinator interaction in many cases is like a lock and key. Some pollinators have long tongues, curved bills, or other body parts that lend themselves to working with the configurations of a particular plant. In the United States, rabbit-eye blueberry production thrives when the southeastern blueberry bee goes to work, but plummets if the common honeybee tries. "The vaseshaped flower of the rabbit-eye blueberry is a little bit too deep for the honeybee's tongue," explains James Cane, associate professor of entomology at Aubum University. "For her to reach the nectar at the base of the flower, she's got to cram her head through the opening of the flower. Honeybees aren't happy with that kind of treatment, and they move on." Cane says that the better adapted southeastern blueberry bee will in its lifetime, set $20 worth of fruit. "If you're a grower and you see these bees flying through your orchard, you can replace each bee with a $20 bill." Nonetheless, some growers have unwittingly sabotaged the southeastern blueberry bee and their own prosperity. The desire to produce more blueberries prompted the growers to enlarge their fields by clearing and planting adjacent areas. In the process, they destroyed the nesting sites of the bees best suited to pollinate their crops. But the most devastating blow to American agriculture is the growing loss of the honeybee. Imported from Europe in the 1620s the honeybee thrived here and proved valuable for pollinating a wide variety of crops. The honeybee's communal nature makes it easy for beekeepers to manage huge colonies that can be trucked from farm to farm, although colonies of escaped honeybees can also be found in the wild. Unfortunately, the honeybee's crosscountry travels have helped disperse two mites-a tracheal mite that suffocates the bee by attacking its respiratory system, and a bloodsucking varroa mite that attaches itself to the bee's back. Neither mite is native to the United States, which has banned bee imports since the 1920s to prevent such outbreaks, but pollination experts think the mites arrived with illegally imported bees and spread to wild honeybees. Healthy colonies of domesticated honeybees are critical for a variety of crops. Modern farms are so huge and densely planted that wild pollinators can't possibly do the job. Pollinating California's almond crop, for example, requires about 500,000 hives filled with tiny migrant workers. Largely because of the mite problem, pollination fees have doubled in the last 10 years. (Honey prices have also skyrocketed.) Pennsylvania's sizable apple industry is among those feeling the crunch. Half the growers complained they couldn't get enough commercial bees last year; yields plunged 40 percent. Fruit growers and backyard gardeners who depend on wild honeybees suffered similar fates. "A lot of home gardeners, and a lot of small apple and cherry orchards, said they hadn't seen any wild bees at all," says Maryann Frazier, a Pennsylvania State University beekeeping specialist. Commercial hives have fared better, because scientists have developed a chemical called fluvalinate that kills mites. But fluvalinate cannot be used when bees are making honey, and mites are beginning to show signs of resistance to the chemical, so scientists are searching for new weapons against the parasites. One candidate is smoke, which beekeepers already use to calm bees before opening a hive. Frank Eischon, an entomologist at the USDA's Agricultural Research Service in Weslaco, Texas, has discovered that smoke from creosote bushes and grapefruit leaves can dislodge varroa mites (the more virulent of the two types) from their hosts, but his findings are only preliminary. Another possibility is to modify bee hives. A research team led by Eric Erickson at the USDA's Carl Hayden Bee Research Laboratory in Tucson has found that bees can survive a varroa mite infestation better if beekeepers use smaller starter cells-wax frames that are installed in hives to provide a foundation for bees to build their honeycombs. When the starter cells are smaller, the cells constructed by the bees are also smaller and the bees stay healthier, although scientists aren't sure why. Still other researchers are trying to selectively breed bees that can survive mite infestations. American honeybees may be bred with Russian bees that seem to have a genetic resistance to varroa mites. Another strategy is to breed "hygienic" bees that are more adept at removing mites from their colonies. But parasites are not the only threat to bees and other pollinators. Manmade chemicals also play a role. Rachel Carson's bestselling book Silent Spring is best remembered for linking the nowbanned pesticide DDT to bird deaths more than three decades ago. But the book also gave early warning that pesticides threatened to ecimate pollinators and produce "fruitless falls." DDT has since been banned in the United States and Canada. Unfortunately, while DDT replacements may be safer for birds, some have proved far more deadly than DDT for Pollinators. "They're not a magic bullet aimed at just one organism. They're quite toxic to a broad sweep of organisms, including bees and butterflies," says Buchmann. One early case occurred in Canada's New Brunswick province when blueberry production plunged from 5.5 million pounds in 1969 to 1.5 million pounds the following year. Canadian researcher Peter Kevan traced the falling production to the use of Fenitrothion, the pesticide that replaced DDT for controlling spruce bud worms in the province's forests. Fenitrothion killed blueberry-pollinating bees along with the worms. The problem isn't so easy to pinpoint when pollinators are killed by the slow march of development. For instance, migratory pollinators such as the monarch butterfly must contend with the shrinking number of stopover points on their annual flights from Mexico to as far north as Canada, and back again. In Hawaii, pollinators began to die when imported goats, cattle, deer, and pigs damaged forests. In the American Midwest, development repeatedly altered the land, first when vast forests were felled for farms, and again as agriculture gave way to homes, shopping centers, and factories. When a pollinator is lost entirely, some plants may have the ability to evolve so that they can perform both the male and female functions, scientists theorize. But such transformations take time. "I doubt enough plants could switch to self-fertilization quickly enough to solve the pollinator crisis some experts foresee," says Kent Holsinger, an associate professor of biology at the University of Connecticut. Self-fertilizing plants may not be as healthy either. Inbreeding among animals generally produces less vigorous, less fertile offspring, and the same holds for plants. Individuals can take steps to help pollinators survive. Backyard gardeners can attract pollinators by putting up thick wooden boards drilled with holes of different sizes; the holes are potential nest sites for bees and wasps. A milk carton packed with paper drinking straws also provides good homes for pollinators. Larger-scale efforts to conserve habitat and limit the use of agricultural chemicals are also essential. Scientists warn that if we don't take steps to protect pollinators, we may face a tasteless future, devoid of some of the fruits and vegetables we enjoy today. "Pollination is amazing," says Cox. "It's sort of like the sun rising. We've always taken it for granted. But if you lose a species of bee, you can't get it back. I think it's safe to say we're in trouble. What we don't know is how big the trouble is." Reprinted from Popular Science, November 1997 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 20:26:59 +1200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Frank Bates Subject: Softening Creamed Honey Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I have recently prepared my first ever batch of creamed honey, by mixing up 18 litres of liquid honey with some purchased creamed honey. I did this in a plastic brewing barrel, but unfortunately, before I got it packed into smaller containers the weather suddenly turned cold one day, and the honey completed the creaming process & set hard. My question is, can I warm this barrel of honey without destroying the creamed granulated structure so I can re-pack it? Would standing it in a bath of warm or hot water warm it sufficiently to achieve this? Frank Bates ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 13:21:11 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=F8rn_Johanesson?= Subject: Sv: need help for pollen preparing... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: Excerpts from BEE-L Til: Bestofbee@systronix.net Dato: 20. marts 1998 15:34 Emne: need help for pollen preparing... From: Yasin Yilmaz To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU >Does collecting pollen give harm to bees, or to the hive in general ? >and does it reduce the amount of honey production in that hive ? To my best knowledge no! If you do'nt remove everything. You can bye a = pollentrap to do the job! >Do u know a place on web where i can find sources/pictures >related to = the procedures of preparing pollens? On my web you will find a pollen grain software where the helpfile is a = totaly advise on how to make pollengrain slices! The software is totaly = free software developed within BeeNet and with help from experts in = relation to the database contents. Best regards Jorn Johanesson EDBi =3D Beekeeping software since 1986 homepages http://wn.com.au/apimo http://home4.inet.tele.dk/apimo e-mail apimo@post4.tele.dk ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 08:41:14 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeemanNick Subject: Re: Softening Creamed Honey Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit yes Standing creamed honey in warm water would work, I dont see why not. Nick ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 09:55:43 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: JRVinLov Subject: I AM AVAILIBLE TO HELP, BEE KEEPING IN CONNECTICUT. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I AM CURRENTLY AVAILABLE (short term) TO HELP WITH SPRING PREPARATION, POLLINATION, SPLITS, ETC. REASONABLE COMPENSATION IS EXPECTED. PLEASE CALL 203-426-3687, ASK FOR JOHN. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 10:02:42 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: JRVinLov Subject: I Need Bumblebees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I am interested in starting a few Bumblebee colonies, are there any local sources? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 11:07:39 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: WGMiller Subject: Re: Softening Creamed Honey Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In general, once creamed honey sets in a container, that's it. However you might try allowing the batch to warm to about 85 F for a few days, and see if it makes your creamed honey pourable. If so, repackage and re-chill ASAP. The above advice is based on observations of creamed honey entries at summer Fairs. The creamed honey will be OK for judging on the first day, but some will have turned into soup by the end of the Fair. W. G. Miller Gaithersburg, MD ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 10:55:06 +1200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mark Horsnell Subject: wax blockages in the sewer Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" i am looking to set up a honey house in the back yard of a large urban property. it will process honey for 150 - 250 beehives. one essential is connection to the city sewer system for all waste, & the city engineers are worried about wax build up in my household sewer pipe (causing blockages) as a result. they don't seem too perturbed about the main city sewer pipes. has anyone had this kind of experience b4? how can one deal with any wax sweepings so they won't cause blockages? any info greatly appreciated. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 18:30:22 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Repairing Old Galvanized Extractors Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Besides the lead, even in good shape, you extractor will shed zinc and if rusted out, iron. You may not object to these elements in your honey, but your extractor will add these elements - which is why most modern extractors are made from stainless steel. We and Roger Morse of Cornell have data showing that old galvanized extractors do contribute these contaminants to your honey. Jerry J. Bromenshenk jjbmail@selway.umt.edu http://www.umt.edu/biology/bees ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 18:09:54 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Paul Bashore Subject: Re: wax blockages in the sewer In-Reply-To: <199803222255.KAA22084@cheech.ihug.co.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >has anyone had this kind of experience b4? how can one deal with any wax >sweepings so they won't cause blockages? > >any info greatly appreciated. > Put them in a plastic bag and put them im the gargage. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 00:17:19 +1200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Organization: Bay of Plenty Polytechnic Subject: Re: wax blockages in the sewer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > one essential is connection to the city sewer system for all waste, & the city > engineers are worried about wax build up in my household sewer pipe > (causing blockages) as a result. they don't seem too perturbed about the main > city sewer pipes. You can build what is called a 'wax trap' which will allow you to periodically skim to remove the wax. Set your mail programme's font to something like Courier to look at this: ________________ | | Waste in | ________________|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|____________Waste out | | ____________ ____________ | | | | | | | | | | | | |________| | |_________________________________| (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- home nickw@beekeeping.co.nz (/ work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz NZ Beekeeping http://www.beekeeping.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 00:20:29 +1200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Organization: Bay of Plenty Polytechnic Subject: Re: wax blockages in the sewer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT My sincere apologies (again!) for pressing send at the wrong moment! Here is the drawing that was to describe the wax trap: ________|~~~~~~~~~~~~~| input | ________ | | | | | | | | | | | | |_________ |_______________________ output Assuming the trap is large enough, the flow of water through is slow enough for wax and other lighter than water gunk to float, allowing you to periodically skim it from the surface. If the flow is slow, the water out the output won't contain any wax at all... (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- home nickw@beekeeping.co.nz (/ work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz NZ Beekeeping http://www.beekeeping.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 17:53:25 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: wax blockages in the sewer In-Reply-To: <199803222255.KAA22084@cheech.ihug.co.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:55 AM 3/23/98 +1200, you wrote: >one essential is connection to the city sewer system for all waste, & the city >engineers are worried about wax build up in my household sewer pipe >(causing blockages) as a result. they don't seem too perturbed about the main >city sewer pipes. If the city is not worried about their pipes then do nothing more then take normal care. Pressing the issue can cost you much in capital as you could be forced to install expensive "solid" waste or grease traps that can not be justified with a small operation or paid for by it. >has anyone had this kind of experience b4? how can one deal with any wax >sweepings so they won't cause blockages? Keep the sweeping out of the drain is the simple and I hope normal solution to your problem. That nasty looking wax that gets on the floor in a large commercial plant is pure or mostly pure bees wax and can be salvaged to bring in welcome cash. It may look bad but believe me it's worth the effort to save. >any info greatly appreciated. In the country I have a wax sump that everything runs into before it reaches the leach lines. It can be cleaned out as necessary or can be left for years if it is big enough. In my newer honey house I did nothing but did make the drains so they can be cleaned out for two directions. Most problems can be cured with a garden hose, and the most difficult can be cured with a steam cleaner. The worst problem I ever had was when a spotted skunk made its way from the outside to the grate on the floor drain and died plugging up the flow of water the next time we extracted honey. You bet it was a real gut wrenching experience to reach into the pipe up to one's elbow to remove its remains. After that I made sure nothing could get into the drain system from outside the building. ttul, the OLd Drone home in on: http://209.76.50.54 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 21:18:05 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Darrells Subject: Re: Bee medication In-Reply-To: <052565CC.00650FFA.00@aammta1.d51.lilly.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sulfa was used as a treatment for AFB, here in Canada, until the early 1980s. Some beekeepers used it while their honey supers were on. It was found in retail honey and banned. Bob ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 21:45:36 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Darrells Subject: Re: Weighing Hives In-Reply-To: <15BDC86924F6@radonc-1.radonc.sunysb.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Several years ago I purchased an old barn (platform) scale at a farm auction. I have used it since then to keep records of one hive in my yard. The platform is big enough to accept the bottom board. I usually choose a mid strength colony and use the daily readings to determine timing of honey flows etc. Best day to day increase was 17 pounds. The scale cost $5 in 1975. Likely be more now. Bob Darrell Caedon Ontario Canada 80W 43,50'N ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 21:41:33 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garry Libby Subject: Re: Repairing Old Galvanized Extractors Hi All, Kelley , Brushy Mountain and possibly some other companies sell a food grade quality,plastic coating,that You could coat the inside of the galvanized extractor.As long as it is not flaking badly,this would work.The product is called "Camcoat",and is made for coating food equipment.Hope this helps You, Garry Libby Boston,USA LibBEE@email.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 21:48:12 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pollinator Subject: Re: I Need Bumblebees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-03-22 10:03:12 EST, JRVinLov@AOL.COM (JRVinLov) writes: << I am interested in starting a few Bumblebee colonies, are there any local sources? >> Check the pollination web page below, under "Alternative Pollinators" for info and some suppliers. It's a little late to order for this year. Best of luck. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 22:14:54 -0500 Reply-To: t_wiegelmann@conknet.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Thomas Wiegelmann Organization: Wiegelmann Apiaries, Inc. Subject: Re: wax blockages in the sewer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mark Horsnell wrote: > > i am looking to set up a honey house in the back yard of a large urban > property. it will process honey for 150 - 250 beehives. > > one essential is connection to the city sewer system for all waste, & the city > engineers are worried about wax build up in my household sewer pipe > (causing blockages) as a result. they don't seem too perturbed about the main > city sewer pipes. > > has anyone had this kind of experience b4? how can one deal with any wax > sweepings so they won't cause blockages? > > any info greatly appreciated. I have not encounted this problem but i would put a grease trap in to catch all the wax and ect. I would construct it on the style of a honey clarifier so when the water and wax go down a drain it would have to go thru several baffels before it can enter the sewer system. The wax and debry would be caught in screen baskets and the water can flow freely into the drain pipes. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 23:52:18 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: EDHC Subject: Re: Queen Discussion Group Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I too, would like to second this. I plan on trying several methods to raise queens that I have been researching. One method I started 3 weeks ago was to locate a frame of brood with young eggs and larva. I took this frame and after making sure the queen wasn't on the frame I moved it above the brood nest with a queen excluder between the two. 9 days later I came back to see if any queen cells were started and sure enough there was one beauty, but there was also one problem -- the cell was attached to two frames, at the top and bottom. In moving the frames to inspect the cell I ripped apart the new queen cell before I discovered the problem. Well, I moved another frame of young eggs and larva up above the queen excluder and told myself I would not disturb this hive until the 18th day, but when I discovered another hive I had queenless and decided to risk it and see if the cell had developed so I could relocate it to the queenless hive. I did it again. I ripped the cell apart because it was attached to both frames. Any ideas on what to do other than leave the cell alone until it hatches?. I plan to start some grafts tomorrow since weather has been beautiful here and is expected to stay that way for at least a week. I thought I better begin practicing so I can get a feel for every thing before I really need queens. I have ordered 20 3 # packages of bees with a queen from a honey producer in Utah. I will drive up to Utah and bring back the packages, then divide those into smaller nucs and put a queen cell with each one to get more nucs for my money. In my research I have come to understand that a queen with a 1/2 # of bees can be almost as effective in developing into a strong hive as a larger package can if proper management is given to it. It has been said that most of the bees that arrive in the package mature and die off shortly after the new brood begins to emerge from the cells and begin their duties. By getting 20 3# packages I should obtain 60 1# nucs or 120 1/2# nucs. I figured the worse that could happen if I experience total failure would be to reunite the nucs with the original packages and be back to the beginning with some possible attrition of bees, a little loss of time and an increase in experience. I also hope to experiment with a multi queen system. By this, I plan to continue taking bees I shake from my strong hives on a periodic basis, add a queen cell and develop them as nucs. Some I will develop in full hive bodies with dividers to give me 2, 3 and 5 frame nucs per hive body; some I will develop above an existing hive with a queen excluder between them. When I get close to a honey flow I plan on stacking multiple nucs on top of each other to form a stronger hive for the honey flow. In following the development of a hive that has been overwintered it seems to me that in our area (last frost date is May 1st) the hive emerges from winter with approximately 4 pounds (20,000) bees and then brood rearing begins in earnest. The queen begins to lay about 15,000 eggs by April 1st, 40,000 more by May 1st, another 40,000 more by June 1st and 30,000 more by July 1st to reach a hive strength of approximately 100,000 bees for the main honey flow. It therefore seems to me that the later you start in the season developing nucs the more one can compensate for the lack of egg laying by using multiple queens in one or more systems. I am not addressing the economics of these practices at this time only the theory I plan to explore. I have a great desire to expand my inventory of hives, but my financial resources are limited. There exits a catch 22. If I divide my exiting hives to make increase (beyond the standard divide of one hive into two hives and add a queen to the queenless hive) I sacrafice honey production on the other hand my growth is slow if I go for honey production and limit my divides. I believe I can have both by raising queens, manage their egg laying and then reorganize these nucs into strong hives before the honey flow. I have spent many a night researching, reading books, on Bee-L, thinking and drawing on my experience the last 30 years of beekeeping (10-50 hives, BV - Before Varroa), knowing there are flaws in my plans, but hoping and praying that the small details will work themselves out. Please give me your input, experiences and thoughts. It is my desire to increase my hives to 250 this season then to 1,000 by next year. (By the way, I build all of my own equipment in my shop. I have access to lots of cheap wood for frames and hive parts, with the equipment to finger joint lumber together to make hive bodies. My biggest need is bees.) Ed Costanza Edgewood, New Mexico ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 01:12:34 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Teresa Garcma Subject: Re: Call for speakers at Apimondia 99: Extension and Regulation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dr. Sanford, I read your message in Apinet-l. I work in a research center in Mexico: "La Posta", it belongs to INIFAP(National Institute of Research in Forestry, Agriculture and Animal Science), which is part of SAGAR (Agriculture and Rural Development Secretariat), and I would like to comment the following: > 1. Extension education models In Mexico honey bee research is mainly held at some Universities and at three INIFAP research centers (La Posta, in Veracruz; Tizimin, in Yucatan, and CENID Fisiologia, in Queretaro). Extension work is done by INIFAP, the PNPCAA (National Program to Control the Africanized Bee), belonging to SAGAR, and by tha "Postgraduates College". About extension (all kinds of farm animals, including bees), INIFAP publishes booklets, offer lectures and at La Posta and some other centers, holds symposia and offers a "Demonstration Day". Not every year the honey bee is part of the "Demonstration", but it often is. The PNPCAA organized courses, offers lectures, was the responsible for tramping swarms at the beginning of the africanization process. The Postgraduates college carries its extension work in honey bees following a model developed by INIFAP, that is called "GGAVATT" (Producers Group for Validation and Transference of Technologies). The model GGAVATT is used in all species: cattle, pigs, etc. and consists of preparing technology packages to be transfered, then collaborating farmers apply at least some of them, while an extensionist follows the results. 2. Funding extension education, has traditionally been via Federal budget, but now some alternatives are apparently desirable. Thank you for your attention, Teresa Garcia ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 01:22:47 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Teresa Garcma Subject: Re: Call for speakers at Apimondia 99: Extension and Regulation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My apologies, I pushed the wrong button. and...now I find I lost Dr. Sanford=B4s e-mail address!! Double apologies, please accept them Tere ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 09:31:24 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Francis Subject: Re: Spring cleaning MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Thanks! -----Original Message----- From: Midnitebee [SMTP:midnitebee@cybertours.com] Sent: Friday, March 20, 1998 5:02 PM To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Subject: Re: Spring cleaning Greetings! I would like to add additional comments to spring cleaning: 1)scrape access propolis from frames 2)remove old medication (grease patties,etc) and replace with "fresh" patties,etc. 3)scrape not "brush" debris from bottom board. 4) check for mites 5)replace queen,if necessary 6)REPLACE old foundation..foundation older than 3-5 years 7)MEDICATE! Holly-B Apiary P.O.Box 26 Wells,Maine 04090-0026 www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee -----Original Message----- From: Lloyd Spear To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Date: Friday, March 20, 1998 11:50 AM Subject: Spring cleaning >Michael Francis in England asked about spring cleaning. >Michael, no cleaning might be necessary. Knowing your climate, and with >your statement that the bees have been bringing in pollen for several weeks, >you should remove your mouse guard. On a day when the temperature is at >least 55 degrees, take off the covers. Remove one of the two frames closest >to a side. there shouldn't be any brood in it. Set it aside. Look at the >next frame, using a little smoke if necessary. It probably won't have any >brood in it. If not, remove it and set it aside. If it does have brood in >it, slide it over where the other end frame was. > >Look at the bottom board where the one or two frames were. Is there a lot >of dead bees? If not, keep moving frames and looking at the bottom board. >If you get 1/2 way through the frames and don't see a lot of dead bees, >slide the frames back to where they started, insert the frame(s) you took >out, and close the hive. You're done; no cleaning. > >If you do see a lot of dead bees at any time in the inspection, stop. No >need to look further. Use your hive tool and "crack" the hive from the >bottom board. Do this on both sides. Lift the hive, and put it on top of >the covers (on the ground), as close as possible to the hive. Using your >hive tool, scrape all the dead bees off the bottom board. Put the bottom >board back, put the hive on top of it, replace the frame(s) you took out. >Close up the hive. You've just cleaned it. > >LloydSpear@email.msn.com > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 10:33:33 +0200 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jan Tempelman Organization: Home Subject: Drory hive 1874 go ahead MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 c29sdmVkIHRoZSBwcm9ibGVtIDstKQ0KDQpKYW4gVGVtcGVsbWFuIHdyb3RlOg0KPiANCj4g V2hvIGNhbiBoZWxwIG15IHdpdGggdGhlIERyb3J5IEhpdmUgb24NCj4gDQo+IGh0dHA6Ly93 d3cueHM0YWxsLm5sL35qdGVtcC9Ecm9yeUhpdmUuaHRtbA0KPiANCj4gZ3JlZXRpbmcsIGph bg0KDQqwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCw sLCwsLCwsLANCkphbiBUZW1wZWxtYW4gLyBJbmVrZSBEcmFiYmUgICAgIHwgICAgIG1haWx0 bzpqdGVtcEB4czRhbGwubmwNClN0ZXJyZW1vcyAxNiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDMwNjkgQVMg Um90dGVyZGFtLCBUaGUgTmV0aGVybGFuZHMNClRlbC9GYXggKFNPTUVUSU1FUykgWFggMzEg KDApMTAtNDU2OTQxMg0KaHR0cDovL3d3dy54czRhbGwubmwvfmp0ZW1wL2luZGV4My5odG1s DQqwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCw sLCwsLANCg0KDQo= ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 12:29:47 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Phil Veldhuis Subject: Question: Milk solids as supplemental bee feed. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Question: Can milk solids be used as a supplemental bee feed? I think I once read an article on this which found that milk solids were an excellent feed source, but I can't remember where. I also think that a small amount of milk solids are an ingredient in Bee-Pro; a commercial pollen replacement mix. Can anyone confirm or disconfirm these hazy memories. Thanks in advance. Phil _________________________________________________________ Phil Veldhuis "Jim said bees wouldn't sting veldhui@cc.umanitoba.ca idiots; but I didn't believe 227 Renfrew Street that, because I had tried Winnipeg, Canada them lots of times myself, R3N 1J5 and they wouldn't sting me." Mark Twain (1884), Huckleberry Finn ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 16:44:38 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: DITRANI DE LA HOZ JUAN C Subject: Bombus laying eggs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII A week ago I caugth some mated bumblebees queens and I put it in a wood box with food stufs(sugar, honey, pollen...). What can I do for encourage the bees for laying eggs??? *************************************************************************** bi094795@mail.pue.udlap.mx ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 07:52:41 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BKPR333 Subject: Re: wax blockages in the sewer Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit try a grease trap in the line from your honeyhouse to your main sewer especally the kind with a filter as part of the trap be sure to checkit regularly during the time when you arer using the house for extraction good luck, bkpr333@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 07:59:59 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: tomas mozer Subject: Re: Plight of the Swarms, Hard Smoke, Organic Honey, etc... just some miscellaneous/eclectic ruminations/ramblings on past threads... tend to agree with the impression that el nin~o's effects may have something to do with early/increased swarms: the first reported swarm heard of here in northeast florida was in mid-january, about a month or so before the past couple of years' experience; further swarms/afterswarms have followed, and are still issuing sporadically in spite of recent unseasonable (cold/wet) weather... as regards smoke to dislodge varroa (in adults,not brood), have seen the same (eischen's) preliminary reports with the caveat that it does not kill mites, still have to place a (screened) sticky board to trap them or use a screen (4-mesh) false-bottom board to let them fall through; sounds much like using tobacco except not toxic as nicotine, though not sure creosote is any less so, maybe so for grapefruit leaves... all of which leads me to speculate also that maybe some survivor stocks are the result of a variable combination of factors (besides possible genetic mite/virulence- tolerance/resistance), among them a strong nectar/honey flow resulting in swarming, which could be artificially manipulated as a control method (splits/drone-brood mite- trapping), along with "hard" smoke in broodless periods and perhaps some "soft" chemical treatment (oils/acids)...certainly labor intensive but conceivably/transitionally "biological"/"organic" quasi-natural beekeeping? _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 13:22:24 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dr Max Watkins Subject: Re: Varroa Drop and Resistance Comments: To: saradan@mcmail.com In-Reply-To: <351378E4.2261@mcmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Hi Tony, Please see my comments outlined in your text below: In message <351378E4.2261@mcmail.com>, Tony Bloor writes >Hi > >I have recently tested my colonies for the presence of Varroa using >Bayvarol strips, unfortunately, all four hives were infected. 48 hours >after the strips were introduced the test trays showed a drop of 10, 10, >6 and 52 dead mites respectively. I presume from these figures that at >present this is a comparatively light infection. 24 hours later I >examined the trays again, this time no mites were found. I reckon any >infected larvae present, should emerge over the next fortnight, along >with their unwanted guests! As per the instructions, I will leave the >strips in for the full six weeks, to catch the young mites as they leave >the cells. I intend to monitor the additional drops over the above >period. However, I have a couple of questions: > >Is it possible to estimate how many of the total adults are killed >within that first 48 hours? It depends on how many mites are there and how active the bee colony is, how much capped brood you have at the time etc. Maybe Bayer will have some estimated figure but I would say you cannoy judge the overall efficacy of a treatment by the first 2 days mite fall. You should however, get an indication of infestation. > I was talking to a long standing beekeeper >a few days ago who suggested virtually all of the emerged adults would >be killed during this time.Over the next two weeks a majority of the, at >present, capped mites will be eradicated as they emerge. > >Of the minority still present, after the fortnight, these presumably >will be the ones exhibiting signs of resistance to Varroacides. Why do you assume there are resistant mites? It's not automatic as a result of chemical treatment; possible yes. > Is the>effect of the chemical on these mites cumulative during the following >four weeks of treatment to the point where they can no longer tolerate >its effect, or is length of exposure immaterial in these cases as they >are resistant, period? Resistance can be like a switch - it's either on or off. There may be different levels of resistance within a population and then amount or length of exposure to active ingredient will affect these individuals differently. However, resistance will not increase during a treatment. I also doubt that you are seeing resistant mites at this time in your hive but you should inform CSL York (Mike Brown) if you are concerned and they may be able to do a resistance test for you. >I would like to consider trying Dr Rodriguez method of control, however >in the UK the Government appears to be adamant that Bayvarol is the only >legal chemical solution at present. Not for long. > So I may try drone trapping. > >Apologies for the length of the posting. > > >Regards > > >Tony >Staffordshire, UK -- Dr Max Watkins Director Vita (Europe) Limited ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 06:57:36 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Whitney S. Cranshaw" Subject: Re: I Need Bumblebees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I purchase my bumblebee colonies from International Technology Services, Inc. out of Boulder, Colorado. The colonies run from $75-$235. Locally they are used heavily to pollinate greenhouse tomatoes. The colonies are produced in either Belgium and/or California, I think. Their phone number is (303) 473-9141. Whitney Cranshaw wcransha@ceres.agsci.colostate.edu Ft. Collins, CO >I am interested in starting a few Bumblebee colonies, are there any local >sources? > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 07:08:09 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Queen Discussion Group MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >One method I started 3 weeks ago was to locate a frame of brood with young >eggs and larva. I took this frame and after making sure the queen wasn't on >the frame I moved it above the brood nest with a queen excluder between the >two. 9 days later I came back to see if any queen cells were started and sure >enough there was one beauty... Well, the chance of getting a queen mated in that hive and laying by this method is very low, as far as I know from reading. Of course I did not believe what I read and tried introducing cells above excluders anyhow. What I had read turned out to be true. Maybe you want to remove the cells and use them elsewhere? Then this is an inefficient way to raise queens, especially if you are finding they get attached in ways that result in destruction. Using any of the methods of getting cells built from using cups to cutting the edge of a foundation full of larvae would be an improvement, but if you want to raise queens, then there is no substitute for doing it right.. >I have ordered 20 3 # packages of bees with a queen from a honey producer in >Utah. I will drive up to Utah and bring back the packages, then divide those >into smaller nucs and put a queen cell with each one to get more nucs for my >money. ...By getting 20 3# packages I should obtain 60 1# nucs or 120 1/2# nucs. Packages are running against time, especially if you happen to get packages with older bees, which is not uncommon. Using a cell is a good way to waste the expensive bees you purchase. Cells take time to mate and get laying; best case is about 11 days. On the other hand, a laying queen dumped in when installing packages will be laying in a day or two. If you are working against time, and you are if you are going for buildup, don't scrimp on the queen. >I also hope to experiment with a multi queen system. By this, I plan to >continue taking bees I shake from my strong hives on a periodic basis, add a >queen cell and develop them as nucs. Some I will develop in full hive bodies >with dividers to give me 2, 3 and 5 frame nucs per hive body; some I will >develop above an existing hive with a queen excluder between them. When I get >close to a honey flow I plan on stacking multiple nucs on top of each other to >form a stronger hive for the honey flow. I doubt you will have as many bees or as good bees as you would if you let them build up and only split when they up to got to a full standard standard super of bees or so. >It therefore seems to me that the later you start in the season developing >nucs the more one can compensate for the lack of egg laying by using multiple >queens in one or more systems. I am not addressing the economics of these >practices at this time only the theory I plan to explore. Theory is what it is. For one thing, queens do not lay at the thoretical rate continuously. They take weeks off sometimes and at other times may proceed at reduced rates. Moreover, each manipulation disrupts the development of the hives. Bees don't read the bee books. Unfortunately, in real life, the results are not the sum of all the theoretical possibilities, but interactions and limitations and Murphy figure largely. These are very bold approaches you are attempting and they may work once in a long while. However, just as they say there are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old bold pilots, you will find that the survivors in beekeeping are pretty conservative in how they manage their bees. They choose approaches that work every time over ones that should theoretically work. My advice: throw out your books and find a successful commercial beekeeper locally and pester him/her with questions and your plans. I am sure will get an amused smile and tolerant advice as to what is the least disasterous route. Every beekeeper has tried to push bees beyond their limits. Personally, I figure I can say this because I've paid my dues -- over and over. FWIW, I just finished cleaning up the mess made by my latest brainwave a couple of years ago where I figured I could make some late season splits because they had worked the year before -- in a much different year. Four hundred spits were made by dividing strong producing colonies in two after the main flow. Unfortuunately neither the splits or the parent colonies wintered well, and there was a lot of loss. Shoulda worked, though... Sadder but wiser. >I have a great desire to expand my inventory of hives, but my financial >resources are limited. There exits a catch 22. If I divide my exiting hives >to make increase (beyond the standard divide of one hive into two hives and >add a queen to the queenless hive) I sacrafice honey production on the other >hand my growth is slow if I go for honey production and limit my divides. I >believe I can have both by raising queens, manage their egg laying and then >reorganize these nucs into strong hives before the honey flow. If your plan is workable, then there will be somone nearby who is doing it. Check out the beekeepers in your neighbourhood. Personally I think it is a prescription for lots of sweat, reduced profits, and wintering disaster, but I've been wrong before. Sometimes the slower way is the faster. Haste makes waste. >It is my desire to increase my hives to 250 this >season then to 1,000 by next year. (By the way, I build all of my own >equipment in my shop. I have access to lots of cheap wood for frames and hive >parts, with the equipment to finger joint lumber together to make hive bodies. >My biggest need is bees.) Some package producers will sell you bees on a crop share basis or in return for honey at extracting time. Ask around. If they think you have a chance of success, they will back you and help you. If they don't think you will succeed, then re-evaluate your plans. After all, package producers are experts in buildup and know the limits. They will tell you, if you ask. I can see you are hot and raring to go, and wish you luck. I hope you start to spend lots of time with old timers in the business and listen carefully to their tales and advice. It will save you wasted years, anguish and possible bankruptcy. The road from back lot to commercial is fraught with hazards and surprises and you'll need good friends in the business. I think you've read enough. Time to throw away the books, turn off the computer, get out your ABJ or Bee Culture, find people advertising things in the classifieds or in the directory, call them up arrange to visit, and spend a lot of time in other people's honeyhouses or kitchens listening to things you may not want to hear. As I see it anyhow. Best of luck. Allen ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 09:30:40 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Francis Subject: Re: Spring cleaning MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Thanks! -----Original Message----- From: Lloyd Spear [SMTP:lloydspear@email.msn.com] Sent: Friday, March 20, 1998 3:13 PM To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Subject: Spring cleaning Michael Francis in England asked about spring cleaning. Michael, no cleaning might be necessary. Knowing your climate, and with your statement that the bees have been bringing in pollen for several weeks, you should remove your mouse guard. On a day when the temperature is at least 55 degrees, take off the covers. Remove one of the two frames closest to a side. there shouldn't be any brood in it. Set it aside. Look at the next frame, using a little smoke if necessary. It probably won't have any brood in it. If not, remove it and set it aside. If it does have brood in it, slide it over where the other end frame was. Look at the bottom board where the one or two frames were. Is there a lot of dead bees? If not, keep moving frames and looking at the bottom board. If you get 1/2 way through the frames and don't see a lot of dead bees, slide the frames back to where they started, insert the frame(s) you took out, and close the hive. You're done; no cleaning. If you do see a lot of dead bees at any time in the inspection, stop. No need to look further. Use your hive tool and "crack" the hive from the bottom board. Do this on both sides. Lift the hive, and put it on top of the covers (on the ground), as close as possible to the hive. Using your hive tool, scrape all the dead bees off the bottom board. Put the bottom board back, put the hive on top of it, replace the frame(s) you took out. Close up the hive. You've just cleaned it. LloydSpear@email.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 13:29:16 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dr Max Watkins Subject: Re: Varroa mites In-Reply-To: <0b2472428151538UPIMSSMTPUSR02@email.msn.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Hi Lloyd, I agree with what you're saying but Tony is talking about Bayvarol in the UK. It's different from Apistan and the kill profile is not quite the same. I don't have the Bayer figures but I'm pretty sure the % mite drop is slower than for Apistan. In message <0b2472428151538UPIMSSMTPUSR02@email.msn.com>, Lloyd Spear writes >Tony Bloor asked about mites and strips. > >My understanding from a lecture just last week by Dr. Nick Calderone of >Cornell, is that approximately 50% of the adult mites will be killed in the >first 48 hours by the strips. The remainder will be killed over the next >several days, but the percentage is difficult to determine as the kill will >also include those emerging from cells. >Yes, your mite infestation is very low. >I have not heard of mite resistance in the UK. That doesn't mean it is not >there. If you leave the strips in for the recommended length of time you >will get a 99% kill, if you do not have resistance. It is not 100% only >because some mites seem to escape the fluvalinate. Unless resistance is >present, even those 1% would be killed upon exposure. However, at the end >of the 6-8 week time, the amount of chemical on the strips is very low. >Keeping them in the hive beyond then will eventually lead to resistant mites >as the chemical load on the strips is not enough to kill them, allowing them >to build a tolerance. >I hope this helps. -- Dr Max Watkins ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 11:10:05 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Apistan vrs. Bayvoral Dr. Watkins corrected my close correlation of Apistan and Bayvoral and I appreciate it. I had read the two products were "identical", and should have known better. Lloyd Spear LloydSpear@email.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 11:24:47 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Queen Discussion Group (Actually, Snelgrove plug) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT > several methods (of queen rearing) ... I have been researching. > > One method ... took (a) frame with young eggs and larva, making sure > the queen wasn't on (it), moved it above the brood nest with a queen > excluder between the two.... This is very akin to the Snelgrove method (SGM), with the difference being that in the SGM, the queen excluder would have been replaced by a Snelgrove Board (double screen board - SGB) a day or two after the original manipulations. If the QE had been replaced with a SGB, the upper hive body essentailly becomes it's own hive, which benefits from the heat rising from the hive below it. The top hive could have been left undisturbed from that point on, allowing a new queen to hatch, mate and begin laying. Furthermore, the multiple openings in the SGB allow the beekeeper to open and close different entrances/exits to allow the bees in the now separate brood chambers to come and go into the hive body of the beekeepers choice, thereby using the bees from one or the other to augment the population most needing the extra bees. > starting grafts tomorrow... Probably fine for New Mexico, advice to the gentleman from Minnesota is to wait for the weather to get better. For northern climes, it's better to purchase queens for early splits and wait for more favorably weather to raise your own. There is a very good article in this month's "Bee Culture" titled "Setting Up a Nuc Operation" offering good advice. Unfortunately it's not online. Remember when starting grafts to use very young larvae, less that two days old. I discovered that if I can see it I can't graft it. Larva of the proper age are VERY small. > 20 3 # packages of bees >--> 60 1# nucs or 120 1/2# nucs. Well, that's pushin' it in my opinion, REALLY pushin' it! As Allen pointed out, you'd probably have better success letting the bees build up and then making nucs from them after they've established themselves. It probably won't get you to the point you want to be as fast as you seem to want to get there, but better to go slow successfully than rush into disaster. > worse that could happen would be to reunite the nucs with the original > packages and be back to the beginning... No, the worse that could happen is that you end up with less than you started! If one or more of your mini nucs fail, you will (could) end up with a dink of a nuc that has next to nothing to offer to hive which receives it. > little loss of time and an increase in experience. 'Spensive lessons from the school of hard knocks! > I also hope to experiment with a multi queen system. Again I recommend reading Snelgrove. You can let the packages get established while the weather improves, implement the SGM so you have queen right chambers both above and below the honey supers that you sandwich in between. And again, by using the multiple entrances and exits in the SGB, you can add the bees from the top colony to the honey producing bottom colony by simply throwing a lever! You will have your two queen colony and you will have a brood chamber of young bees ideal for making nucs or useable as a nuc for overwintering or combining with the colony below, however circumstances dictate after Murphy has had his say. > By this, I plan to continue taking bees I shake from my strong hives > on a periodic basis.... Again, read Snelgrove (starting to sound like a suggestion here?). Why shake when you can simply open or close (actually, open AND close) an entrance. You're reinventing an old method (dating mid-1930s) that fell out of favor because it requires an extra piece of equipment (the Snelgrove board). > I have a great desire to expand my inventory of hives... (If I) > divide to make increase I sacrafice honey.... Again I offer that you may want to slow down a bit. If you don't proceed as quickly (rashly?) you can make your increases AND produce honey. Without DRASTIC divides you can still split off hives this year, produce your crop, successfully overwinter more hives this year so you will have move hives to split next year. And you will get a feel for the larger operation as you build to see if you are actually able to manage the size you envision. Better to wade out slowly than to jump in over your head and drown! (Let me see, that makes two cliches in a single post, am I over quota?). > hoping and praying that the small details will work themselves out. Not a good strategy! 10-50 hives currently? If you're buying packages I guess it's closer to 10 than 50. If it's closer to 50 you should be spending your money on queens and using your own hives to provide the bees. > It is my desire to increase my hives to 250 this season then to 1,000 > by next year. Doable, but drastic. If you go for it, best of luck to you! However, haste makes waste (3!) Look before you leap (4!!) and if you still go fot it, "Beware what you wish for 'cause you just might get it! (5!!!) Good luck! Aaron Morris - thinking I've broken the cliche record! PS: For more details on the SGM, send a single line of mail to: LISTSERV@cnsibm.albany.edu that reads GETPOST BEE-L 17749 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 11:46:05 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: The Bee Works Subject: Re: Queen Discussion Group In-Reply-To: <3512CEC7.CE6A9DD9@starpoint.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 20 Mar 98 at 14:17, Elroy Rogers wrote: > boxes for mating with separate entrances at both ends. My bigest > problem could be cold weather which could keep virgin queens from > mating. We can't start raising queens till the first/second week of May as drones don't fly freely till the end/first week of June. All you need to do is work out your dates, and don't compromise, there really is nothing to gain, but unmated or poorly mated queens don't do anyone any good!! ******************************************* The Bee Works,9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia,Ontario. L3V 6H1. Canada. Phone/Fax 705-326-7171 http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks Quality Bee Breeders. e-mail ***************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 11:46:04 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: The Bee Works Subject: Re: queen rearing discussion group? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 20 Mar 98 at 4:14, Ivan McGill wrote: > Does anyone know if there is a queen rearing discussion group on the > web? I agree with Aaron, let's get one started. The only problem, I find the Bee-L is becoming just a freebie question service, as most take their answers offline!! We have had one or two ideas put up on various methods which the individuals are planning. But, and it's a big BUT, nobody has mentioned what they plan to do about mating all these queens they're going to raise. A little math will tell you the problem. If you plan just 20 Queens per week, and that's not a lot. Then if each mating requires on average 15+ drones, that means 300+ every week. Without some method of drone increase the average good yard will not supply that amount consistently. In which case, of course, mating will suffer. Add the that the lack of feral hives, and the problem becomes greater. Comments welcomed! ******************************************* The Bee Works,9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia,Ontario. L3V 6H1. Canada. Phone/Fax 705-326-7171 http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks Quality Bee Breeders. e-mail ***************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 12:43:15 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Good queens don't just happen! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT David Eyre makes the point: > ... nobody has mentioned what they plan to do about mating all these > queens they're going to raise... just 20 Queens per week (not a lot) > requires on average 300+ drones every week! This is a good reason for northern beekeepers to purchase their queens for splits and waiting for better weather to grow their own. Expectations for good "Yankee" queens much before June 1 is folly. Dave's correct, you can't push them drones. One of the strongest points made at Sue Cobey's "Queen Rearing" class is, "Don't overlook your drones!" Everyone picks their "best" hive (most productive, least fierce, best survivor, prettiest color(?), best house keeper, whatever) to provide the egg(s) or larvae - genetic material - from which to raise their queens. But that's only half the picture. The other half is the drones! And with open mated queens, this half of the picture can easily be very out of focus. First off, will the drones even be from your hives? If so, will they be from the same hive you picked to provide the larvae? Hopefully not! Inbreeding is to be avoided. Will they come from a neighboring hive? Hopefully, preferably one of the neighboring hives that also has desirable characteristics but which is not closely related to the larva donor. Perhaps the drones will come from a neighbor's hives? Drone congregation areas are nature's way to stack the deck in genetic variation's favor, however in open mated queens you never really know. Unless you're in a very isolated area it's likely that the drones did NOT come from your hives! This is why if you're seriously going to get into raising your own queens you want to do it on a scale at least large enough to be able to cull the crap. It's not a trivial exercise! It's more than getting something to successfully crawl out of a queen cell, fly off innocent, come back knocked up and start raising more bees! It's successfully managing your bees so they will raise good, well nourished virgins to fly off on nuptials with many well mannered, gentlemanly drones to return to a blissful nucleus where she will begin to lay eggs in wonderful pattern producing well tempered and highly productive progeny. And if you've made your best effort to do everything right and she turns out to be a real bitch, then off with her head! Nasty bees? Cull her. Poor pattern? Cull her. Low production? Cull her. Bad results for any reason? Cull her. Got many queens left when you're done? Hopefully, but you can get the idea that SERIOUS queen rearing DOES approach rocket science. Ok, perhaps I exaggerate a bit (and apologies if I've offended by my choice of words). But raising GOOD queens is more complicated than it looks. Yes, one can have "acceptable" results letting nature take her own course - she's been doing it for millennia without beekeeper intervention. But the goal of a serious queen breeder isn't achieved in a fortnight or by accident, it's a long term and concerted effort. One can easily raise a yard of bees in a haphazard, takes your chances manner. However, odds are it won't be a pleasant yard in which to work. Raising what can be considered a "quality" stock can take a lifetime! This is not to say that you shouldn't try, but unless one intends to approach the task in a serious, WELL INFORMED and dedicated manner, better results will be had by purchasing queens from beekeepers who have the time, dedication and skill to develop and maintain quality stock. Aaron Morris - thinking good queens don't just happen! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 18:11:25 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ivan McGill Subject: using 2 Queens for increase Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" There has been a lot of discussion about 2 queen colonies, pros and cons. A few years ago I was operating that way and am going back to it for a quick increase and still get a honey flow. The reason for not running 2 queen colonies for a few years was to get our RV park built. It is intensive, if you don't want to pay attention to details don't do it. This is how I did it. 1. overwintered colonies: I ordered a few queens to make large splits (1 full box of bees os in about 2 to 3 weeks will take another super) around the 1st of May (that is about 2 months before the honey flow here) Kept feeding and medicating until the 1st week in June. 2. For queen rearing count back10 to 15 days. Grafting seems the only way to get good queend cells in this part of the country, at least that is the only way that I have been able the get good results. 3. 5 days later split some brood, mostly capped, over a queen excluder, come back 5 days later. This where it is optional. You can leave the brood on the same colony, but I prefer to put them on a bottom board and move them to a different yard more work but a more even split. The next day take queen cells to splits and if not sure put cell protectors on them. Then you can go back to put a screen board between the colony on the top and bottom 3 or 4 days later. The way I have read that 16 days for a queen to hatch from egg to hatching, approx. another 10 days for a laying queen. Our honey flow starts anywhere from end of June to July 15 depending on the weather patterns. With the screen board and the heat below the young queen will lay a large amount of eggs. 4. This where systems differ. I wait until the honey flow is about to started before taking off the top queen with that box of brood and setting it on a bottom board in the same apiary, or if you feel that the yard will not support that may colonies then move them elsewhere. 5 days before doing this I go out and put queen excluders between the bottom brood chambers. Then when you take the top colony off you can put the queen from the bottom colony in the super she's in on the bottom board. Put the queen excluder on the bottom brood chamber, leaving an upper entrance with from cedar shakes or door shims. Then put your honey supers on. Most of the field bees will go back to the orginal colony. If the flow is good you can also put a queen excluder with a honey super on the splits and some times you get honey. The other discussion about the pros and cons of queen excluders. Here we use them because our honey flow is on and off and this gives the queen time to lay in the honey supers. Until I started using queen excluders I got very little honey some years. We are not in a high producing area. 5. I also kept raising a few queens but you can order, and at the end of the honey flow I put an empty super that has been extracted with approx. 5 to 6 frames of pollen in the center on top of the queen excluder. Then pull that super off put on a bottom board move to another location wait until the next day before giving them a queen. On the orginal colony I put the same type of super with 3 to 4 frames of pollen. But you must feed sugar syrup if you use this method. By the time winter arrives it will be built up enough with young bees. #5 is not for every part of the country. We winter indoors and can get away with a little less feed. This is not a new method it is a few twists and turns. I read about 2 queen system in a New Zealand book, they called them tops. There was also a queen rearing method used in New Zealand on the south island. Call Queen-Cell Raising - My Way by H. Cloake. I have used this method and it works for me. I know there will be more experienced beekeepers out there with different ideas. Please put them forward so we can all benefit. Thank You Ivan McGill Prince George, B.C. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 14:19:47 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK Subject: Re: Good queens don't just happen! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Dear Adrian: This post should be REQUIRED READING for all today's beeHAVERS. It should also be HIGHLY SUGGESTED READING for most beeKEEPERS. I SALUTE YOU! Even with 65 years of beekeeping "under my belt", I requeen all of my 100+ colonies EVERY year with queens purchased from breeders who purposely raised lots of drones. This was a MAJOR emphasis point at the ABF meeting in Colorada Springs in January. I enjoy your sharp appraisal of many issues. Please continue! George Imirie, Retired scientist ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 15:17:46 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: RCLynn Subject: Re: queen rearing discussion group? Comments: To: beeworks@muskoka.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-03-23 11:49:37 EST, beeworks@muskoka.net writes: << A little math will tell you the problem. If you plan just 20 Queens per week, and that's not a lot. Then if each mating requires on average 15+ drones, that means 300+ every week. Without some method of drone increase the average good yard will not supply that amount consistently. In which case, of course, mating will suffer. >> Speaking of drone numbers, does anyone know where to get drone fonudation. I've called my favorite suppliers, and they don't have a clue. Regarding methods of raising queen cells, I've just read, and re-read a Queen rearing book by Vince Cook. It seems like the best approach for the sideliner. It allows queen cell rearing without removing the queen and without affecting honey production. I plan to try it this week in North Carolina, USA. I have been waiting for normal populations of drones to ramp up, because I can't find drone foundation. Anyone have any experience with Vince Cook's method? Randy Lynn North Carolina, USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 15:31:00 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Drone Foundation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Don't know if they still have it but they used to at Betterbee 1-800 632-3379 Incidently, Betterbee also has Snelgrove's Swarming:-It's_Causes_and_Control Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 16:01:09 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: The Bee Works Subject: Re: Queen Discussion Group (Actually, Snelgrove plug) In-Reply-To: <980323.113510.EST.SYSAM@cnsibm.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 23 Mar 98 at 11:24, Aaron Morris wrote: > is to wait for the weather to get better. For northern climes, it's > better to purchase queens for early splits and wait for more > favorably weather to raise your own. There is a very good article > Remember when starting grafts to use very young larvae, less that > two days old. I discovered that if I can see it I can't graft it. > Larva of the proper age are VERY small. Two points. Firstly why is it always stated 'to make early splits' when later splits work just as well? Bearing in mind our later start I make nucs in late July, and they still make it through the winter! Second. Isn't the timing off a bit?. It takes eggs three days to hatch! Incidently, I use a head set with binnocular magnifying viewer (for depth perception) and have no trouble using a Chinese grafting tool (soft tip) to pick them up. Finally. I never see mention of cell protectors. Using cell protectors ensures the survival of emerging virgins. Before she emerges the cell can and will be broken down, after all with introduced cells, the bees didn't put them there so they will remove them. We requeen a lot of hives by cell addition. The hive has to have an old queen (due to supercede) add a cell in a protector in the middle of the brood pattern, the virgin emerges, safely, mates and takes over. If you mark your queens then you can tell, one more reason to mark them all!! ******************************************* The Bee Works,9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia,Ontario. L3V 6H1. Canada. Phone/Fax 705-326-7171 http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks Quality Bee Breeders. e-mail ***************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 00:25:51 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Nasr Basuny Subject: Vitamins, Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi all Does anybody know any idea abut feeding bees with vitamins, to increase brood and production ? Thanks Nasr ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 17:49:47 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK Subject: Re: Good queens don't just happen! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Dear (adrian): WOW, I am getting old! My apologies! I meant AARON. The worst part is that I have a 42 year old son, AARON, who might take me apart if I called him, adrian. George Imirie ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 19:05:33 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garry Libby Subject: Drone Foundation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0020_01BD568E.A7743EC0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01BD568E.A7743EC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RC Lynn wrote: " Speaking of drone numbers, does anyone know where to get drone = fonudation. I've called my favorite suppliers, and they don't have a clue." The BeeWorks in Ontario,Canada has Drone foundation.The address is: The Bee Works,9 Progress Drive, = Unit 2, Orillia,Ontario. L3V 6H1. Canada. Phone/Fax 705-326-7171 http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks Quality Bee Breeders. e-mail Garry Libby Boston,USA LibBEE@email.msn.com =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01BD568E.A7743EC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
RC Lynn = wrote: 
" Speaking of drone = numbers, does=20 anyone know where to get drone fonudation.
I've called my favorite = suppliers,=20 and they don't have a clue." 
 
The BeeWorks in = Ontario,Canada has Drone=20 foundation.The  address is:
 
          &nbs= p;            = ;            =  =20 The Bee Works,9 Progress Drive, Unit 2,
Orillia,Ontario. L3V 6H1.=20 Canada.
Phone/Fax 705-326-7171
http://www.muskoka.net/~beework= s
Quality=20 Bee Breeders.
e-mail <beeworks@muskoka.net><= /DIV>
 
 
Garry Libby
Boston,USA 
LibBEE@email.msn.com
=20  
------=_NextPart_000_0020_01BD568E.A7743EC0-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 19:06:56 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CSlade777 Subject: Re: Queen Discussion Group (Actually, Snelgrove plug) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Besides one extra piece of equipment the Snelgrove method also uses another ingredient - time. It is very much a method for the small scale, hands on, beekeeper. I have used it occasionally in the past and hope to do so again if I can remember where I left the Board. I have more success splitting a colony into several by using a variant of Ron Brown's two queen system, details of which are, I believe, buried within the vaults of this list. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 19:06:52 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CSlade777 Subject: Re: Bombus laying eggs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit she will need attractive (to her) nesting materials. Some species of bombus seek out old mouse nests in which to start their own nests. This might be a good start. You could experimentally add a few very young or emerging honeybees. It is possible that they might forage and thus enable the bombus to expand her brood nest faster than if left to herself. Today I saw some bumble bees seeking nest sites. I might try this myself. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 19:06:59 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CSlade777 Subject: Re: Drone Foundation Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I read recently that Barbara Snelgrove who re published her father's books has recently died, an elderly lady. It is to be hoped that somebody else will be able to pass on Mr Snelgrove's words of wisdom to another generation of beekeepers. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 19:06:55 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CSlade777 Subject: Re: Apistan vrs. Bayvoral Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit As I understand it having attended a lecture from Dr Watkins at the National Honey Show last November, the chemical is the same (fluvalinate) in both Apistan and Bayvarol but the method of delivery is subtly different as the different plastic strips used do not allow the fluvalinate molecules to arrive at the surface at the same rate. My apologies to Dr Watkins if I have misunderstood and also for trying to encompass part of a long and fascinating lecture in a single sentence. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 19:06:58 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CSlade777 Subject: Re: queen rearing discussion group? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Don't bother to buy drone foundation. Just put in starter strips of worker foundation. They bees will then produce as many drone cells as they require depending on many variables; genetics, season, strength, flow, weather, etc. I bought Vince Cook's book (he even autographed it for me). The first year I used the system it worked perfectly but I have had very little success since. Perhaps I add too many of my own ideas and don't stick closely enough to the mastr's words. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 20:39:48 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tom Jillette Subject: Queen Rearing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello all, I've been reading the queen rearing posts with great interest. I'd like to raise some of my own queens this year (approx.40 to 60) and have been reading 'Contemporary Queen Rearing' by Harry H. Laidlaw, Jr. (Dadant Publication) which I find very interesting. My intent is to graft some larvae from eggs laid 3 days earlier by one of my better queens (prolific, overwintered and good honey producer,etc) into 1/4 inch wax cell cups (I'm going to make myself), attached to small 'chips' which are further attached to crossbars in a frame (3 crossbars/frame). I then plan on placing the grafts (two frames with 90 cups each) into a swarm box as described in Contemporary Queen Rearing with 5 to 6 lbs of nurse bees, a good frame of pollen and two of honey.....feeding sugar syrup for the next 24 to 36 hours. Then from there, the frames of cells will be moved, one each to the top brood chamber of two strong colonies with the queens below an excluder in the bottom chamber, and frames of young brood moved to the top, placing a frame of young brood on one side of the frame containing queen cells and a good frame full of pollen on the other side, again feeding sugar syrup to the hive. On the 9th day from grafting, I intend to move the cells to an incubator I plan on making using a picnic cooler and aquarium heater in which they will be kept at 92 F in a humid environment until they start to emerge on the 11th or 12th day. When the first queen starts to emerge, I plan on placing the cells in mini queen nucleus' fitted with 3 small frames of foundation and a feed container of sugar syrup and about a cup or slightly more young bees, from which they will hopefully go out, mate and make it back and start laying in the following couple of weeks...(weather and other factors permitting.) I have some questions about some points here though, which I'm sure some of you in the know can help with or better yet, improve upon. 1. Here in southern Manitoba, Canada, is it too early to start grafting by the middle of May? I realize the drone population has to be up by the time mating is to occur and I realize everything in general depends on how Mother Nature decides to treat us at this time. Depending on how well the hives are building up, maybe waiting well into June would be better, although there's a bit of a dearth here at that time which may affect things. 2. In theory, another method the book describes to deal with an emerging queen, is to place one brood box, of a 2 body hive, containing the queen to be replaced above a couple honey boxes and queen excluder and to introduce the new about to emerge queen in the bottom brood box below a queen excluder....essentially creating a two queen hive....both top and bottom brood boxes having their own entrances. Once the new queen is seen to be laying (properly), killing the old queen and uniting the two brood boxes again below the honey supers. In practice does this work? I heard from another beekeeper that he tried this and it seemed to him, the new queens were not leaving to mate!?! Using the small Nucs seems to me to be the way to go, but this other way sure sounds easier. 3. In using a mini queen nucleus, is it o.k. to have only wax foundation in the frames, or is it a necessity to have drawn out comb? Any comments or suggestions on all of this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Tom ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 22:52:03 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Beedaz Subject: Re: Queen Rearing in mini nucs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In re: to mini nucs..... I would recommend taking deep boxes and router out slots to divide the box into three equal compartments to accept three frames each. Use thin plywood to separate and make bottom board with raised bars to meet plywood so chambers are tight. When you're done with queen raising , just pull out the dividers and you have a usable hive. Figure out a way to feed, like drilling a plywood top to accept small jars as feeders. When done just leave the lid to fill the hole or make a plug. Mini nucs stink in my opinion. Too small and specialized. Kirk ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 21:54:54 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Elroy Rogers Subject: Re: Queen Discussion Group MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Eyre wrote: > On 20 Mar 98 at 14:17, Elroy Rogers wrote: > > > boxes for mating with separate entrances at both ends. My bigest > > problem could be cold weather which could keep virgin queens from > > mating. > > We can't start raising queens till the first/second week of May as > drones don't fly freely till the end/first week of June. All you > need to do is work out your dates, and don't compromise, there really > is nothing to gain, but unmated or poorly mated queens don't do > anyone any good!! I Think our area is 2 to 3 weeks ahead of your area, in this part of Minnesota we usually have at least 10 days of 90 degree weather in may. I have raised some queens last fall in september to see if they would mate at cool temps, they did. I feed the nucs sugar water until the end of october, all queens layed 5 to 6 frames of brood. Although the ten nucs that where produced didn't make it past the end of november, all the bees were supposed to be shipped to california at the first part of October. If they had they would probably made it all winter. An advantage I will have over other northern beekeepers is that my bees wintered in california, and will have been used for 3 different pollinations. I know pollinations are not always the best for bees but they will be 6 weeks ahead of everyone elses bees here in Minnesota when they return in the middle of april. Since they are 6 weeks ahead they should have plenty of drones, as well as having 500 colonies to use as a drone pool, I should be able to get some early queens. The yard where the bees are kept until june 1st is excellent in that there is a large groove on the west and north side with large barn and honey house on the east side. This area gets 5 to 10 degrees warmer than the area temps. I had made a deal with a large commercial beekeeper to do all the work and spend all my own money on queen rearing equipment, but use his colonies for queen rearing. We will evenly split the queens raised, I want about 200 queens myself he wants 400 to 600 queens. Last spring I purchased 6 queens from Glen apiary in california I plan on using those queens for breeding because most of my other colonies only produced 10 lbs of honey where they produced close to 100lbs. All others in this area only produced an average of 20 lbs. I know of 1 commercial operation that is out of business because of last years cold weather, but thats another subject. Using the Queens from Glen apiary that are totally unrelated to the other colonies should keep inbreeding a non-isue in my case. So as you can see my biggest problem is cold weather at the time when the virgin queens need nice weather for mating flights. I am planning on 60% failure at first which should decrease to 30 to 40 % as weather gets better. I would like to get at least 100 queens from first batch, so this means shooting for 250 queens first week. I have 1 jenter box now but plan on ordering 1 more, each one is capable of producing 100 queens every 4 days. I also want to try to do some grafting of the extra larvae not in the cell plugs, there can be over 200 of these seems a same to just wash them out. All the queens that are going to be produced are to be used in two queen colonies, this will be another safe guard against poorly mated queens. The reason we want 2 queen colonies is that last spring we had such cold weather the bees had very few days to fly until june 15th. I remmember putting on the second brood chamber on the 4th of july with a lot of my nucs that were started the last week of april. Some I was just tired of waiting for so I put newspaper in between, so as to let the bees decide when they need the room. When july came the bees were really busy, but they had already missed half of the sweet clover bloom due to cold weather. I could see everything blooming at different times of spring but when the temps barely reached 50 the bees just couldn't fly very far. So I figure 2 queen colonies will be twice as strong on those cold springs and will not have to take so long to build up. I am still baffled why those 6 queens that were put on 3 frames of brood produced so much more than the others started a month earlier, and were 8 frame nucs. Well thats about all this beehaver knows so far, I am trying to cover all bases to keep out failure. So if you see something that won't work let me know. Allen Dick convinced me on the importance of treating for nosema, after reading his posts I did some reading on nosema. Elroy > > > ******************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 00:46:06 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jeff May Subject: Lip Balm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000B_01BD56BE.3ADD5280" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BD56BE.3ADD5280 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Could I please get some recipes for making Lip Balm. I had gotten a good recipe from the Bee Culture or American Bee Journal = magazine about 3 years ago, have since used up the batch that I made=20 and now cannot find the recipe to make more. Thank You very much. Jeff May Granite Ledge Apiaries " BEE HEALTHY...EAT YOUR HONEY " ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BD56BE.3ADD5280 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Could I please = get some=20 recipes for making Lip Balm.
I had gotten a = good recipe=20 from the Bee Culture or American Bee Journal magazine about 3 years ago, = have=20 since used up the batch that I made
and now cannot = find the=20 recipe to make more.  Thank You very much.
Jeff=20 May
Granite Ledge=20 Apiaries
" BEE = HEALTHY...EAT=20 YOUR HONEY "
------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BD56BE.3ADD5280-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 22:18:23 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." Subject: Stopping 2nd, 3rd swarms Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Once the primary swarm has left the hive, what measures can be taken to prevent secondary and tertiary swarms from taking off? Here is Santa Barbara, swarms that we captured in February have built up so fast ( thanks to abundance of rain) that they are reswarming again..... Paul Cronshaw, D.C. Cyberchiro/High School Teacher and Hobbyist Beekeeper Santa Barbara, CA USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 01:23:10 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: Re: Question: Milk solids as supplemental bee feed. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I think I once read an article on this which found that milk solids were an >excellent feed source, but I can't remember where. I also think that a small >amount of milk solids are an ingredient in Bee-Pro; a commercial pollen >replacement mix. I believe that "Haydak's mix" was soyflour, brewers yeast, skim milk powder in a 3:1:1 ratio. I have a feeling that bee-pro is similar. Although I have used skim milk powder in the past, now that I have pollen to mix I have increased the brewer's yeast (due to Andy's and Mark's posts) and left out the milk powder. Much as it hurts me to say this, since I am a dairy farmer, the milk powder was the most expensive ingredient. Regards, Stan ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 01:25:59 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Sid Pullinger Subject: Weighing hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 The platform scale was once to be found on every railway station, farm an= d feed store in England. From letters on the list it was also common in th= e Americas. Made of steel and cast iron, operated by a series of levers, n= o springs, it is practically indestructible and is ideal for the beekeeper.= = Now largely replaced by more modern devices they can be found rusting awa= y in old barns and scrap yards. Over three years I picked up five at price= s from five to twenty five pounds. In each case the mechanism was perfect and after stripping and cleaning they all responded to less than a four ounce change in weight. When found lthey are usually without the weight pan and weights but a pan is easily fabricated. The beam is graduated fr= om zero to twenty eight pounds so a 28lb weight can be accurately made from = a small canister filled with lead chips or shot from cartridges. The weigh= t is approximately four and a half ounces so one needs an additional 9oz, 18oz and 36oz to complete the set. = The beam mechanism needs protection from the weather. Mine are all in a beehouse so no problem. The hive stays on the platform all the year roun= d. In winter it is a good indicator of consumption. In the morning in summ= er it will indicate the rate at which foragers leave the hive. Foragers lea= ve with a minimum of food and weigh around 4500 to 5000 to the pound. Zeroi= ng the scale at seven in the morning I often find a weight loss of three pounds or more by nine oclock, thus indicating that some 15000 bees are already on the wing. A heavy nectar flow during the day is followed by a= three to three and a half pound drop during the night, indicating the evaporation of one to two pints of water. In my part of the world nectar flows of any consequence occur from early May to mid July, a mere two and a half months. Monitoring hives daily shows clearly that flows are usually of short duration and are largely controlled by the weather. Our weather is very fickle so one day can see= an intake of fifteen pounds of nectar and the next day nothing, due to sudden heavy cloud or rain. With such a short interval for nectar the loss of a swarm in May is a disaster. Thus for me the art of beekeeping is swarm prevention, the selection of queens for non-swarming, frequent re-queening and the maintenance of a strong foraging force from late April to July. Sid P. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 10:54:01 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Hugo Thone Organization: Alcatel Telecom Subject: apivar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hi, Here in Belgium (you know from "If it's Tuesday this must be Belgium"), we will use APIVAR from this year on to treat varroase (instead of APISTAN). Anybody out there who has experience with Apivar or who can tell me all about it (active component, application, drawbacks,...). I 'll throw a pie to everbody who answers my question ;-) cheers, hugo -- do bee do bee do ... Hugo Thone (VE144) email : htho@se.bel.alcatel.be (\ ALCATEL TELECOM phone : (32) 3 240 94 52 {|||8- F.Wellesplein 1 fax : (32) 3 240 99 49 (/ B-2018 Antwerp ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 07:51:38 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Early splits MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT David Eyre wrote: > ... why is it always stated 'to make early splits' when later > splits work just as well? Bearing in mind our later start I make > nucs in late July, and they still make it through the winter! Simple - early splits will produce a crop. If the goal is only to overwinter, then I agree, later splits are better - in fact preferable for an "ideal" overwintering population. However in these parts, a tax day split (April 15) will bring in a crop of honey AND overwinter. Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 07:50:42 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Beekeeperc Subject: Re: Drone Foundation Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit You may order drone foundation from: Ed Weiss 3 Whipstick Road Wilton, Ct. 06897-3538 Tel: 1-203-762-3538 Norm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 07:48:46 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John M Thorp Subject: Re: wax blockages in the sewer Tell those folks it will help keep the lines lubed. Take Care and GBY-John in Homestead- - Jesus Christ Is The Only Answer,Joshua24:15 _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 14:11:57 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Janko Organization: Department of Biology, University of Ljubljana Subject: Slovenian Beekeeping, Apimondia 2003, AZ hive MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------66606C649A83ECD63292A0E4" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------66606C649A83ECD63292A0E4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Slovenian Beekeeping home page has been moved to: http://www.uni-lj.si/~bfbee/ You can start also at previous location: http://www.uni-lj.si/~bfjanko/ where you can get links to my personal home page and to Slovenian Beekeeping home page. I'm glad that Slovenia will host Apimondia congress in 2003. More on that at: http://www.uni-lj.si/~bfbee/congress/main.html For those who are interested in our national AZ hive, check at: http://www.uni-lj.si/~bfbee/cic/AZhive.html With regards, Janko Bozic --------------66606C649A83ECD63292A0E4 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=iso-8859-2; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Bozic, Janko Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Janko Bozic n: Bozic;Janko org: Department of Biology, University of Ljubljana adr: BF-Department of Biology;;Vecna pot 111;Ljubljana;;1000;SLOVENIA email;internet: janko.bozic@uni-lj.si title: Behavioral and Physiology of Honeybees tel;work: 386(61)12-333-88 tel;fax: 386(61)273-390 x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard --------------66606C649A83ECD63292A0E4-- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 14:24:09 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Janko Organization: Department of Biology, University of Ljubljana Subject: salvolat and other supplements MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------B454FA8A8E1B87582DB65AEF" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------B454FA8A8E1B87582DB65AEF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Bee-liners, I have found that German beekeepers have available product called Salvolat as a supplement to add to bee-food to stimulate spring development of bee colonies. How wide is practice to use this supplement ? Are there any good experiences. Does anyone has data what it contains and how much ? Are there any other products like this available, specially in Europe ? I'm looking forward your comments. Janko --------------B454FA8A8E1B87582DB65AEF Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=iso-8859-2; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Bozic, Janko Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Janko Bozic n: Bozic;Janko org: Department of Biology, University of Ljubljana adr: BF-Department of Biology;;Vecna pot 111;Ljubljana;;1000;SLOVENIA email;internet: janko.bozic@uni-lj.si title: Behavioral and Physiology of Honeybees tel;work: 386(61)12-333-88 tel;fax: 386(61)273-390 x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard --------------B454FA8A8E1B87582DB65AEF-- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 07:43:01 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Murray McGregor Subject: Re: Apistan vrs. Bayvoral In-Reply-To: <24e974f3.3516f921@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 In article <24e974f3.3516f921@aol.com>, CSlade777 writes >As I understand it having attended a lecture from Dr Watkins at the National >Honey Show last November, the chemical is the same (fluvalinate) in both >Apistan and Bayvarol but the method of delivery is subtly different as the >different plastic strips used do not allow the fluvalinate molecules to arrive >at the surface at the same rate. > My apologies to Dr Watkins if I have misunderstood and also for trying to >encompass part of a long and fascinating lecture in a single sentence. >Chris Slade Apistan's active ingredient is fluvalinate. Bayvarol's active ingredient is flumethrin. Not EXACTLY identical substances but VERY closely related, which is why, I am led to believe, that resistance trials in USA show resistance developing to both substances stemming from exposure only to fluvalinate. Murray -- Murray McGregor murray@denrosa.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 15:15:29 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dr Max Watkins Subject: Re: Apistan vrs. Bayvoral In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Hi Murray, In message , Murray McGregor writes >In article <24e974f3.3516f921@aol.com>, CSlade777 >writes >>As I understand it having attended a lecture from Dr Watkins at the National >>Honey Show last November, the chemical is the same (fluvalinate) in both >>Apistan and Bayvarol but the method of delivery is subtly different as the >>different plastic strips used do not allow the fluvalinate molecules to arrive >>at the surface at the same rate. >> My apologies to Dr Watkins if I have misunderstood and also for trying to >>encompass part of a long and fascinating lecture in a single sentence. >>Chris Slade > > >Apistan's active ingredient is fluvalinate. >Bayvarol's active ingredient is flumethrin. > >Not EXACTLY identical substances but VERY closely related, which is why, >I am led to believe, that resistance trials in USA show resistance >developing to both substances stemming from exposure only to >fluvalinate. > Yes, true. The original work was done by Dr Norberto Milani at Udine University in Italy in 1994. He showed a clear cross resistance between pyrethroids in varroa treatment. Varroa mites that had developed resistance to tau-fluvalinate were [are] also resistant to flumethrin and to acrinathrin. Therefore products based on thes molecules cannot be used as rotation partners to reduce resistance levels where pyrethroid resistance is already shown. Sorry if that's a bit long-winded. But it is! All the best, Max >Murray >-- >Murray McGregor >murray@denrosa.demon.co.uk -- Dr Max Watkins ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 15:08:58 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dr Max Watkins Subject: Re: Apistan vrs. Bayvoral In-Reply-To: <24e974f3.3516f921@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Thanks for your kind words, Chris, glad you enjoyed the talk. Apistan and Bayvarol are indeed based on similar pyrethroid molecules - tau-fluvalinate in Apistan and flumethrin in Bayvarol. The mode of action on mites is the same and both molecules are very "safe" for honeybees, in the dosage used in the respective formulations. However, the two preparations are formulated differently and the release profile is not then identical. I have seen how the Bayvarol strip behaves, and it's not like Apistan. The overall effect does seem to be the same, with a high mite kill after a 6-8 week treatment. One treatment for Apistan is 2 strips/hive and for Bayvarol 4 strips/ hive. If less strips are used, the efficacy reduces dramatically. Best regards, Max In message <24e974f3.3516f921@aol.com>, CSlade777 writes >As I understand it having attended a lecture from Dr Watkins at the National >Honey Show last November, the chemical is the same (fluvalinate) in both >Apistan and Bayvarol but the method of delivery is subtly different as the >different plastic strips used do not allow the fluvalinate molecules to arrive >at the surface at the same rate. > My apologies to Dr Watkins if I have misunderstood and also for trying to >encompass part of a long and fascinating lecture in a single sentence. >Chris Slade -- Dr Max Watkins ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 10:56:06 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: The Bee Works Subject: Re: queen rearing discussion group? In-Reply-To: <6ef5ff56.3516f924@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 23 Mar 98 at 19:06, CSlade777 wrote: > Don't bother to buy drone foundation. Just put in starter strips of > worker foundation. They bees will then produce as many drone cells > as they require depending on many variables; genetics, season, I suppose to save a dollar a sheet it's worth the hassle of unpredictability. ;-)) As that's what this method is, if the bees don't want drones they won't make them. Adding foundation does insure drones, provided it's used in larger hives with older queens. Small hives with young queens don't figure they need them, so don't make them. I have had a hive take drone foundation and try to work it into worker cells, what a mess!! ******************************************* The Bee Works,9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia,Ontario. L3V 6H1. Canada. Phone/Fax 705-326-7171 http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks Quality Bee Breeders. e-mail ***************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 10:56:07 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: The Bee Works Subject: Re: Queen Rearing In-Reply-To: <35173914.118C@mbnet.mb.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 23 Mar 98 at 20:39, Tom Jillette wrote: > producer,etc) into 1/4 inch wax cell cups (I'm going to make > myself), attached to small 'chips' which are further attached to > crossbars in a frame (3 crossbars/frame). I then plan on placing > the grafts (two frames with 90 cups each) into a swarm box as I can agree with most of the ideas in this post, but we have reduced the amount of cells, per cell builder. We have found in pratice that 180 cells is far too many to be fed properly and tends to produce small queens. Believe it or not, we are down to 45 at a time. > 3. In using a mini queen nucleus, is it o.k. to have only wax > foundation in the frames, or is it a necessity to have drawn out > comb? Provided that the mini-nuc is fed, then you can use just foundation. In fact some advise just a strip across the top bar, which leads to soft frames. We find it is safer to have drawn foundation, you need somewhere to hang the cell, and foundation doesn't give much of a base to hang them off. ******************************************* The Bee Works,9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia,Ontario. L3V 6H1. Canada. Phone/Fax 705-326-7171 http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks Quality Bee Breeders. e-mail ***************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 10:16:56 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Elroy Rogers Subject: Apistan questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi fellow Beehavers, I have seen several posts on the use of apistan for maximum mite kill and to stop resistance to apistan, you must use two strips per colony. All colonies that winter in the north have at least two deeps on for the brood chambers. My question is where would I put the apistan strips in the upper chamber or lower chamber? The upper chamber is where the bees would be at first, but I rotate the two brood chambers at least 3 times before the honey flow starts. To be really effective shouldn't I put strips in both chambers or 4 strips per colony, since I would have brood emerging form both chambers at different times? I looked in the Mann Lake catalog to see what it would cost per year if I had 1000 colonies, which I should in about 2 to 3 years. A 100 strips cost $157 , so in the sping I must spend $1570 and again in the fall. Thats over $3000 in 1 year, which in my estimation is very minimal in killing varroa mites. If I use 4 strips per colony to be really effective then it is over $6000 per year, at this rate I could buy one of those fancy pickup trucks in just 4 years if I use an alturnative to apistan, or mineral oil. After looking at this from the money side it is easy to see why there is such resistance to change by the sellers of this product. Sorry if I offend anyone but this is the way I see it. Elroy ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 18:30:36 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: Queen Discussion Group (Actually, Snelgrove plug) Hi All On the topic of gaining rapid increase through splits there have been a lot of really good posts and cautionary advice. Speaking as a beekeeper who is at that stage where attempting to increase rapidly is a possible choice, and I have a lot less to lose here in the warm south (if my bees die, swarms will move into the bodies for free next spring at no extra cost) but have some other perspectives. There are two places where this approach will come seriously short. No wax and no drones for mating queens. In a beehive, in my opinion, the most difficult and expensive thing to get as a starter is drawn comb - at present I have ten hives that I feed extensively for the single purpose of comb production. Once one has comb, increase is simple if one has good queens. Now to draw wax, bees have an exponential ability to make the stuff the more bees there are (I think it's to do with heat generation and some other things). Little nucs make bad comb manufacturers. A two body hive with 15-17 frames brood will draw a frame in a day if it is being fed. The same hives queen can easily fill such a frame in a day and a half. A nuc will take a week or more to draw a frame - thats a weeks eggs lost because no laying space. So my strategy for increase is to have a number of good hives producing brood frames and then to do full hive body split and add a reared queen. A full hive body split will be able to move into two bodies far faster than a nuc into a single even. (It helps of course if you have a large supply of dirty honey to feed your bees from bee removals as is my case - note this is not such a good idea if diseases are prevalent in your area) Secondly, if you are rearing queens in an area with only weak nucs lying around, your queens will have access to few drones. Before one begins queen rearing, one needs to give a few good hives about a month and a bits good feeding to get them rearing drones. If you can lift out the end frame on each side of the hive and it is covered with a layer 2cm deep of drones, you will have a better chance of producing good queens. (In my area there are so many feral clonies drone availability is no problem, but I want to skew the natural population with 'desireable traits') Drones take ages to rear. Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis Eastern Cape Prov. South Africa Time = Honey If parents taught kids about the birds and bees, guys would believe they were half the women they used to be!! Standard Disclaimer applies to this post. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 11:33:45 +0100 Reply-To: Barry@Birkey.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Organization: BIRKEY.COM Subject: Re: Early splits MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aaron Morris wrote: > David Eyre wrote: > > > ... why is it always stated 'to make early splits' when later > > splits work just as well? Bearing in mind our later start I make > > nucs in late July, and they still make it through the winter! > > Simple - early splits will produce a crop. If the goal is only to > overwinter, then I agree, later splits are better - in fact preferable > for an "ideal" overwintering population. However in these parts, a tax > day split (April 15) will bring in a crop of honey AND overwinter. > > Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! I think this is a matter of perspective. No matter if you split in spring or fall, both splits will produce a crop within a year. Since Dave suggested fall as a time for splits and requeening some time ago, I have started doing this and find it to be a more favorable time of year to do it, especially requeening. I will still make splits though as needed for swarm control in early summer. -Barry -- Barry Birkey West Chicago, Illinois USA Barry@Birkey.com http://www.birkey.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 13:08:31 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Timothy J Harned Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0026_01BD5725.F190D850" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01BD5725.F190D850 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable UNSUBSCRIBE ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01BD5725.F190D850 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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------=_NextPart_000_0026_01BD5725.F190D850-- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 13:31:09 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Midnitebee Subject: Re: Apistan questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings! Holly-B Apiary P.O.Box 26 Wells,Maine 04090-0026 www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee --- >Hi fellow Beehavers, > I have seen several posts on the use of apistan for maximum mite >kill and to stop resistance to apistan, you must use two strips per >colony. Stop resistence to apistan?..I do not believe you meant to say that, at least not in that context.... I place apistan between the 3-4th frame and the 6-7th frame. All colonies that winter in the north have at least two deeps on >for the brood chambers. you are running two deeps? why? There is a fellow in Buckfield that runs a 600 hive operation running with a single deep in the winter... I live in the seacoast of Maine and I realize the temp's are quite different Downeast. I run one deep during the winter months with NO problem. >My question is where would I put the apistan strips in the upper chamber >or lower chamber? for me?..i USE APISTAN STRIPS in the top hive w/grease patties..reason?..bees move UP not down,. >but I rotate the two brood chambers at least 3 times before the honey >flow starts. and you plan to have a 1000 hives...hope you have a strong back! I rotate my brood chambers once per year. Herb(Midnitebee) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 13:29:34 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Early Splits MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT In the course of a year an early split will/can build up to to a double brood chamber hive, produce a summer crop of honey, over winter and be available for splitting again the next spring. For the cost of a queen you get a full hive and a crop in the same calendar year with the potential to do it again next year. A fall split will build up and over winter as a single, continue to build the following spring, put on a crop in the following summer, and because I don't follow this method I'm not sure if you can split that unit the following fall and have both halves(?) overwinter. Assuming you can split the fall split hive in the subsequent fall, I'll concede that you accomplished the same thing in the same amount of time. However, you're a half a year later with the fall splits but you save the cost of the queen by raising your own. I find this amusing, sort a chicken and egg sort of thing! Which came first, the harvest or the split? Just goes to show, there's more 'n one way to keep a bee! Aaron Morris ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 13:48:01 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David W Oakes Subject: Which came first MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Which comes first the chicken or the egg.? Answer, which came first the man or the child Dave in Indiana ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 14:58:10 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Joel Govostes Subject: Re: Which came first In-Reply-To: <052565D1.00671DA5.00@aammta1.d51.lilly.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Which comes first the chicken or the egg.? reptile ---> egg ---> proto-archaeochicken ---> egg ---> chicken ---> KFC why certainly ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 15:01:17 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: THOMPSOB Subject: Re[2]: Bombus laying eggs Keith Delaplane (Georgia) and the International Bee Research Association (U.K.) both have published considerable amounts of information regarding bumblebees (or humblebees as they are sometimes called in the U.K.); articles have appeared in ABJ and/ or Gleanings (Bee Culture). Larry Connor (Wicwas Press) stocks at least one book(let) on bumblebees. Wood shavings are mentioned as being an attractant in nest prepared for bumblebee use. Can't imagine that honeybee larva are any enticement to nectar/ pollen users such as Bombus is. Barry Thompson Rockville, MD ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Bombus laying eggs Author: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology at INTERNET Date: 3/23/98 7:06 PM she will need attractive (to her) nesting materials. Some species of bombus seek out old mouse nests in which to start their own nests. This might be a good start. You could experimentally add a few very young or emerging honeybees. It is possible that they might forage and thus enable the bombus to expand her brood nest faster than if left to herself. Today I saw some bumble bees seeking nest sites. I might try this myself. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 15:05:04 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Elroy Rogers Subject: Re: Apistan questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Midnitebee wrote: > Greetings! > Holly-B Apiary > P.O.Box 26 > Wells,Maine 04090-0026 > www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee > --- > > >Hi fellow Beehavers, > > I have seen several posts on the use of apistan for maximum mite > >kill and to stop resistance to apistan, you must use two strips per > >colony. > Stop resistence to apistan?..I do not believe you meant to say that, at > least not in that context.... > I place apistan between the 3-4th frame and the 6-7th frame. In the first pharagraph I was refering to what others where saying that they should use two strips per colony, which could be a factor to the V-mites building up resistance to the apistan strips. If I were to use only two strips to cover 2 brood chambers it seems to me thats not enough on a good spring boildup. > > > All colonies that winter in the north have at least two deeps on > >for the brood chambers. > you are running two deeps? why? There is a fellow in Buckfield that runs a > 600 hive operation running with a single deep in the winter... > I live in the seacoast of Maine and I realize the temp's are quite different > Downeast. > I run one deep during the winter months with NO problem. The winters here can be very extreme in 1996 and 97 the temps were as cold as 20 below zero and we had a lot of 50 to 70 MPH wind days to go with it, I don't think any single brood chamber colony could have made it here under those conditions. > >My question is where would I put the apistan strips in the upper chamber > >or lower chamber? > for me?..i USE APISTAN STRIPS in the top hive w/grease > patties..reason?..bees move UP not down,. > >but I rotate the two brood chambers at least 3 times before the honey > >flow starts. > and you plan to have a 1000 hives...hope you have a strong back! > I rotate my brood chambers once per year. Yep that what I am setting my goal for, but after this year I may decide it is not practical. I am very good at building things, Iam planning on building a hive hoist on my pickup truck. I have seen several good ideas on the web which I think I can modify for picking off the top honey supers so I can rotate the lower brood chambers. The top chamber is always the heaviest because the bees don't like to store their honey to close to the entrance. I always had seen just brood emerging in the lower brood chamber when I switched. This does keep the honey out of the brood chamber the bees will always move it out of the lower chamber when they get rotated, cure for plugging. This is the way I was taught. I seen an old beekeeper in his sixtys do it this way with out queen excluders on over 500 colonies. I figure I am twice his size and an ex-logger that use to cut an awful lot of timber, so I should be able to do it. Back on the two brood chambers, since my colonies don't winter in Minnesota it is possible to get them in one brood chamber, before shipping them to clalifornia. But when they come back in the spring I have seen some of the strong colonies get honey bound with two chambers. I think they are working more than just pollination out there, if they were shipped in 1 chamber they would be pitching a lot of swarms in those california orchards. I bet there are at least 10% that swarm anyway before we get them back. The last pollination there is the orange groves, I'll bet there are plenty of free swarms to get at that time for any newbees that live in the area. Maybe Andy in california could share about swarms coming out of the orange groves. Elroy > Herb(Midnitebee) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 16:14:00 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ron Bogansky Subject: Uncappers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, I was looking at some back issues ('92, '93) of BC and ABJ. I noticed ads for uncappers that used rotating brushes or chains to remove cappings. The appeared to be hand loaded and did one frame at a time. They were much less expensive than what is on the market today. I believe one was from Dadant. I don't see them in recent issues. Did they not work? They seemed to be an alternative to the larger and more expensive units and would work for someone with less than 100 colonies. I would think they were probably faster than hand uncapping. Anyone have any experience with them? Is anything like that still available? Ron Bogansky Kutztown, PA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 16:29:06 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Midnitebee Subject: Re: Apistan questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >The winters here can be very extreme in 1996 and 97 the temps were as cold as 20 >below zero and we had a lot of 50 to 70 MPH wind days to go with it, I don't >think any single brood chamber colony could have made it here under those >conditions. really..so, you beleive having a LARGE (?)population of bees(going into the winter months) will keep the hive warmer ? I run a deep brood chamber(during the winter) and place a honey super above the brood chamber and during the "flow", I use mediums(above the deep). Winds,temps,etc..I realize play a part in the winter condition..but, on the other side of the coin..does it not depend on your windbreak,condition of your bees,wrapping of your hives and the race/strain of bee? Herb BTW-thanks for your comments.. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 16:32:00 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ron Bogansky Subject: Good Queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aaron Morris wrote: "David Eyre makes the point: > ... nobody has mentioned what they plan to do about mating all these > queens they're going to raise... just 20 Queens per week (not a lot) > requires on average 300+ drones every week! This is a good reason for northern beekeepers to purchase their queens for splits and waiting for better weather to grow their own. Expectations for good "Yankee" queens much before June 1 is folly. Dave's correct, you can't push them drones." I agree with David and will be using his suggestion and queens to start nucs for next year. But for this spring purchasing queens for early splits may be a problem. I posted last fall about a study done by Penn State showing that a large number of commercial queens are to put it bluntly, "poor". They have reported this back to the breeders but who knows what will happen. I have a very small operation and would not need many queens but I would hope I could still get quality queens. Money spent is money spent and you hope for a return on investment. I have been somewhat satisfied with the queens I have purchased in the past but last year I noticed some did not perform well and were prematurely superseded. Thoughts? Ron Bogansky Kutztown, PA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 17:18:25 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Videos Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" One of my colleagues is looking for good videos illustrating bee behaviors. Any suggestions about particularly good examples, source of supplier, etc.? Thanks Jerry J. Bromenshenk jjbmail@selway.umt.edu http://www.umt.edu/biology/bees ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 19:01:35 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John M Thorp Subject: Re: Which came first Or what came first,the bee or the mite ? Take Care and GBY-John in Homestead- - Jesus Christ Is The Only Answer,Joshua24:15 On Tue, 24 Mar 1998 13:48:01 -0500 David W Oakes writes: >Which comes first the chicken or the egg.? >Answer, which came first the man or the child >Dave in Indiana > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 20:17:56 -0500 Reply-To: "beekeepr@bellsouth.net" Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Frank Humphrey Subject: Re: Lip Balm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit E-mail Sugar Plum Sundries sugrplumL@mindspring.net and the owner will give you an excellent recipe for lip balm. I use it all of the time. The owner is my daughter, just tell her "your Mom sent me!". Mrs. Beekeepr@bellsouth.net -----Original Message----- From: Jeff May [SMTP:Busterb@snet.net] Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 1998 12:46 AM To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Subject: Lip Balm << File: ATT00000.html >> Could I please get some recipes for making Lip Balm. I had gotten a good recipe from the Bee Culture or American Bee Journal magazine about 3 years ago, have since used up the batch that I made and now cannot find the recipe to make more. Thank You very much. Jeff May Granite Ledge Apiaries " BEE HEALTHY...EAT YOUR HONEY " ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 01:45:54 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert E Butcher Subject: Re: Which came first Which came first? Adam or Abel ? God Bless You Robert&Teresa Butcher bobbees@juno.com On Tue, 24 Mar 1998 13:48:01 -0500 David W Oakes writes: >Which comes first the chicken or the egg.? >Answer, which came first the man or the child >Dave in Indiana > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 17:47:07 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Stan Umlauft Subject: Ulee's Gold on Video NOW Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all
A bee lover's must see flick "Ulee's Gold" is now in video stores as of today, March 24, 1998. A widower, played by Peter Fonda in his best performance ever, and winner of best actor, struggles to keep his family beekeeping business afloat during a family crisis. Hollywood finally portrays bees and beekeeping in a positive light. However as you might expect, this R Rated film has lots of profanity, intense violence, and drugs, but little sex, and no nudity. =A0

For a more extensive preview point your browser to:

http://movieweb.com/movie/uleesgold/index.html or http://www.or= ionpictures.com/uleesgold/index_js.html
Best wishes
Stan
______________________________________________________
=A0 =A0 =A0=A0 -=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Stan Umlauft dba
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 "=A0 `=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 A & Bee Honey= Farms=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 /)
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=A0 _- -_`-_|'\=A0 /`=A0=A0 Bay Point, CA USA=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 \)
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=A0=A0=A0=A0 '`=A0=A0 ^ ^=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 web site: www.honeybee.com> ~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*
 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 21:13:23 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Verville Subject: Re: Which came first MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Robert E Butcher wrote: > > Which came first? Adam or Abel ? Adam begot Abel and Cain. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 18:23:56 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Carolyn Capps Subject: Re: Which came first In-Reply-To: <351716C3.1A0E@worldnet.att.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 23 Mar 1998, David Verville wrote: > Robert E Butcher wrote: > > Which came first? Adam or Abel ? > Adam begot Abel and Cain. I'm new to the list and didn't get in on the start of this thread, so help me out here: Does the above come under Beekeeping Issues or Bee biology? :-) ------------------------------------------------------------------- Shift happens. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Carolyn Capps Vista CA capps@cts.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 23:33:37 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John M Thorp Subject: Christian Beekeeper List This letter hope fully will not upset any individual or group.Some time back I was approached by someone on the list concerning the start of a christian beekeeper list. Having no idea what could come of it the only idea that comes to mind is this. Would all of you saints of the most high God send me a private e/mail. After that we can go with how the Lord leads. Any ideas would be appreciated and shared with all who write. Take Care and GBY-John in Homestead- - Jesus Christ Is The Only Answer,Joshua24:15 _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 19:32:06 -0900 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dimitri Pentkovski Organization: Americano Russian Center, Univercity of Alaska Anchorage Subject: Re: Good queens don't just happen! MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hello, Is anybody can help to locate the breeder of German black bees (apis melifera melifera ) in the USA or Canada? Best regards, Dimitri Pentkovski Anchorage Alaska. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 00:15:46 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: Which came first MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> Adam begot Abel and Cain. >I'm new to the list and didn't get in on the start of this thread, >so help me out here: >Does the above come under Beekeeping Issues or Bee biology? :-) Neither... Thanks for reminding us to get back to bees... Ian Watson realtor@niagara.com real estate agent gardener baritone beekeeper---> 6 colonies and counting ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 00:16:25 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Conrad Sigona Subject: Re: Christian Beekeeper List In-Reply-To: <19980324.233339.13550.3.hallelujah.honey.co@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > ................................ Would all of you saints of the most high > God send me a private e/mail. Here I am. Conrad Sigona conrad@ntcnet.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 21:54:53 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Patrick & Mary Caldwell Subject: Re: Christian Beekeeper List MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hello John... Please add me to the Christian beekeeper list. Thanks! Mary Caldwell mpcenterprises@mci2000.com -----Original Message----- From: John M Thorp To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Date: Tuesday, March 24, 1998 8:38 PM Subject: Christian Beekeeper List This letter hope fully will not upset any individual or group.Some time back I was approached by someone on the list concerning the start of a christian beekeeper list. Having no idea what could come of it the only idea that comes to mind is this. Would all of you saints of the most high God send me a private e/mail. After that we can go with how the Lord leads. Any ideas would be appreciated and shared with all who write. Take Care and GBY-John in Homestead- - Jesus Christ Is The Only Answer,Joshua24:15 _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 00:49:41 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: LJConnor Subject: Maine Beekeepers Please Read Comments: cc: PBrads4321@aol.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Dear Bee-L members from Maine: I just received this email from a fellow in Maine who wants to start with bees. Perhaps he can be invited to attend your state meeting in a few weeks. Hint! Thanks for any contact you can make. Larry Connor My e-mail address is pbrads4321@aol.com and my mailing address is as follows: 199 Pine Hill Drive Glenburn, Maine 04401 Do you know of any bee-keepers here in maine that wouldn't mind talking with me about raising bees, or at least selling some established hives? if so, please include that info. Thank you very much! Happy Spring! Jami Herring Bradshaw ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 09:30:37 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Seppo Korpela Subject: Re: apivar In-Reply-To: <351782B8.C71FD87C@se.bel.alcatel.be> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Anybody out there who has experience with Apivar or who can tell me all > about it (active component, application, drawbacks,...). Apivar is a plastic strip similar to Apistan but has amitraz as active ingredient as did Miticur that was in use in USA in 1993. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 23:00:24 GMT Reply-To: Andy.Sutherland@man.ac.uk Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Sutherland Organization: Manchester University and UMIST Subject: Re: Which came first Comments: To: realtor@niagara.com >> Adam begot Abel and Cain. All you so called Christians should know what the bible says at Gen 4 V 1 Adam Fathered Cain THEN Abel enough said!!!!!!!!!! Lets get back to BeeKeeping if you want your own site go and do it elsewhere and get your facts straight first. Andy S ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 16:05:58 +0100 Reply-To: drs@kulmbach.baynet.de Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Dr. Reimund Schuberth" Subject: Re: salvolat and other supplements MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Janko, although I know this product I doubt whether this substance is a great help for beekeepers. To my opionion the only one, who has success is the firm selling these products. The best thing for stimulating spring developments of the hives is migration with your hives to warmer regions with good pollen supplies. Here in Germany beekeepers with a lot of hives sometimes migrate up to 200 km. Sincerely Reimund ___________________________ Beekeeper in Germany (Bavaria) Queen Rearing of Carniolan Bees Insemination Station ___________________________ Janko schrieb: > Dear Bee-liners, > > I have found that German beekeepers have available product called > Salvolat as a supplement to add to bee-food to stimulate spring > development of bee colonies. How wide is practice to use this supplement > ? Are there any good experiences. Does anyone has data what it contains > and how much ? Are there any other products like this available, > specially in Europe ? > > I'm looking forward your comments. > > Janko > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Janko Bozic > Behavioral and Physiology of Honeybees > Department of Biology, University of Ljubljana > > Janko Bozic > Behavioral and Physiology of Honeybees > Department of Biology, University of Ljubljana > BF-Department of Biology Geschdft: 386(61)12-333-88 > Vecna pot 111 Fax: 386(61)273-390 > Ljubljana Netscape Conference-Adresse > 1000 DLS-Server von Netscape Conference > SLOVENIA > Weitere Informationen: > Nachname Bozic > Vorname Janko > Version 2.1 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 21:10:58 +0100 Reply-To: drs@kulmbach.baynet.de Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Dr. Reimund Schuberth" Subject: Please write me!!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello all, my name is Sebastian. I live in Germany. I4m 14 years old. I would like to improve my English. I would like a penpal. I'm afraid that I4m not interested in beekeeping very much. Who has a boy or girl of my age with the same problem? ;)) My hobbies are computers, ham radio, reading, pop music and so on. It would be nice if someone could answer me. Please excuse me trying to find contact by this way. Sebastian ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 08:15:12 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Jeffrey R. Hills" Subject: Re: Christian Beekeeper List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have noticed that my bees are noticeably less active on Sunday mornings and gather together in groups in various spots around their hives. Could this be in observance of a religious ceremony? Patrick & Mary Caldwell wrote: > Hello John... > > Please add me to the Christian beekeeper list. > > Thanks! > > Mary Caldwell > mpcenterprises@mci2000.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: John M Thorp > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Date: Tuesday, March 24, 1998 8:38 PM > Subject: Christian Beekeeper List > > This letter hope fully will not upset any individual or group.Some time > back I was approached by someone on the list concerning the start of a > christian beekeeper list. Having no idea what could come of it the only > idea that comes to mind is this. Would all of you saints of the most high > God send me a private e/mail. After that we can go with how the Lord > leads. Any ideas would be appreciated and shared with all who write. > Take Care and GBY-John in Homestead- - Jesus Christ Is The Only > Answer,Joshua24:15 > > _____________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 08:50:51 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John A Skinner Subject: Re: Apistan questions In-Reply-To: <003c01bd5753$0542ae00$5c1ea1d0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Suggestions to thread of where to put apistan Two deeps: I would put one strip per frame of bees as the label reads. Most of the year this coincides with where the brood is and there are more mites (80%) in the brood than on adults. As the new adults (bees) emerge the pregnant female mites are exposed to Apistan, hopefully before they can scurry into another cell that is ready to be capped. If there is no brood then all the mites are on the adults and strips should be placed among the bees, whether they are up or down. One deep: Put one strip per five frames where the bees are. If the bees are spread evenly throughout all frames then spacing between frame 3 and 4, and between frames 7 and 8 is fine, but if all the bees and brood are clustered to one side then strips should be evenly spaced in the cluster. Live long and pollinate, John John A. Skinner 218 Ellington Hall Extension Apiculturist University of Tennessee jskinner@utk.edu Knoxville, TN 37901 (423)974-7138 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 09:11:12 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John A Skinner Subject: Re: Apistan questions In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Oops, Now I did it! One strip per five frames. Sorry Sorry Sorry, etc. etc. I wonder how many people noticed the "oops" ? On Wed, 25 Mar 1998, John A Skinner wrote: > Suggestions to thread of where to put apistan > > Two deeps: I would put [one strip per frame of bees] as the label reads. Correction: THE LABEL READS "ONE STRIP PER 5 FRAMES OF BEES" > Most of the year this coincides with where the brood is and there are more > mites (80%) in the brood than on adults. As the new adults (bees) emerge > the pregnant female mites are exposed to Apistan, hopefully before they > can scurry into another cell that is ready to be capped. > > If there is no brood then all the mites are on the adults and strips > should be placed among the bees, whether they are up or down. > > One deep: Put one strip per five frames where the bees are. If the bees > are spread evenly throughout all frames then spacing between frame 3 > and 4, and between frames 7 and 8 is fine, but if all the bees and brood > are clustered to one side then strips should be evenly spaced in the > cluster. John A. Skinner 218 Ellington Hall Extension Apiculturist University of Tennessee jskinner@utk.edu Knoxville, TN 37901 (423)974-7138 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 09:13:00 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Proper use of Apistan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT John A Skinner wrote: > Suggestions to thread of where to put apistan > > Two deeps: I would put one strip per frame of bees as the label > reads.... I'm sure John made a typo here. The labels reads: "one strip per 5 frames of bees in the brood chamber." On Monday, March 16 Dr. Nicholas Calderone (Cornell University) spoke to the Southern Adirondack Beekeepers Association regarding mites and the proper use of Apistan. A question from the audience questioned the vendor instructions of 1 strip per 5 frames of brood. I did not comment at the time as I did not have a label in front of me, however after reading the label I responded as follows: "... However, it wasn't my recollection that the label refered to "frames of brood" but rather, frames of bees in the brood chambers. Checking the label on the box of 100 strips dated 1995, purchased in fall 1997, it reads: "Use one strip for 5 combs of bees or less in each brood chamber (Langstroth deep frames or equivalent in other sizes)." Now I'm not sure if a 1995 batch comes with the most current label, but I think the problem with the label it that it tries to give general instructions for all hives under all conditions. "5 combs of bees OR LESS..." includes frames with NO bees! Given that fluvalinate is a contact poison, the dosage is a surface area application rather than a volume dosage. 5 strips per 5 frames of bees (not brood) ensures that there is sufficient strip surface area in the volume of bees' space such that each bee will eventually come into direct contact with the miticide. I was going to offer the observation that the label doesn't stress the "contact" aspect of the strips, but looking at the label I see (highlighted no less), "Apistan strips must be in contact with brood nest at all times." This is where the label is open to interpretation. One must ask, "Where will the bees congregate within the boxes at the time when the strips will be installed?" In a 2-deep hive in these parts at the time when I treat in the fall (late Sep through Thanksgiving if early, mid Oct to mid Dec if I want cured aster honey) the cluster will most likely be in the center area of the two deep boxes. At that time I use 3 strips: two in the top box between frames 3-4 and 6-7, and 1 strip in the middle of the bottom box. In the spring treatment time (March/April) the bees are going to be mostly in the top box and I use 2 strips between frames 2-3 and 7-8. Frame spacing in my hives are 9 per box with follower boards on both sides. So, does this follow label instructions? Obviously not. Strict interpretation says two per box between 3-4 and 7-8. But I'm comfortable that my placement strategy puts the strips where they need to be to treat the conditions within my hives at the time when I'm treating. I suspect that in the fall the tops of the top strips and the bottom of the bottom strip are not contacted by the bees as much as I'd like, something that longer strips might address. I also wonder if no strips in the bottom hive in the spring is wise, but again, I've reached a comfort level with my placement strategy and so far what has been comfortable for me has worked for my bees. I guess the REAL problem is a pervasive lack of understanding for how the strips work and appreciation for what the bees are doing at the time of year when the strips are being used. Obviously no label will impact that. Regardless of what is written, beekeepers are going to do as they damn well please! Perhaps the best we can do is strive to improve the understanding and appreciation...." Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 08:28:53 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Paul Bashore Subject: Re: Apistan questions In-Reply-To: <3517DC74.345FA622@starpoint.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I looked in the Mann Lake catalog to see what it would cost per year if >I had 1000 colonies, which I should in about 2 to 3 years. A 100 strips >cost $157 , so in the sping I must spend $1570 and again in the fall. >Thats over $3000 in 1 year, which in my estimation is very minimal in >killing varroa mites. If I use 4 strips per colony to be really >effective then it is over $6000 per year, at this rate I could buy one >of those fancy pickup trucks in just 4 years if I use an alturnative to >apistan, or mineral oil. > >After looking at this from the money side it is easy to see why there is >such resistance to change by the sellers of this product. > >Sorry if I offend anyone but this is the way I see it. > >Elroy > Mineral oil would cost alot less. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 13:13:09 +0100 Reply-To: drs@kulmbach.baynet.de Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Dr. Reimund Schuberth" Subject: Re: Videos MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Jerry, there are some suppliers of films about bee behavior and beekeeping in Germany. Unfortunately only a few films are available in English language. What kind of videos are you looking for? Perhaps I can help you? Reimund ___________________________ Beekeeper in Germany (Bavaria) Queen Rearing of Carniolan Bees Insemination Station ___________________________ Jerry J Bromenshenk schrieb: > One of my colleagues is looking for good videos illustrating bee behaviors. > Any suggestions about particularly good examples, source of supplier, etc.? > > Thanks > Jerry J. Bromenshenk > jjbmail@selway.umt.edu > http://www.umt.edu/biology/bees ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 09:36:15 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Joel Govostes Subject: Re: Christian Beekeeper List In-Reply-To: <35190360.7A5BF50F@sover.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I have noticed that my bees are noticeably less active on Sunday mornings and >gather together in groups in various spots around their hives. Could this be >in observance of a religious ceremony? > Dunno, but they seem to prefer swarming on Sundays, at least in Massachusetts...(?) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 09:41:49 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Anthony M Jadczak Subject: leatherwood honey from Tazmania MIME-Version: 1.0 Last night, one of the students in a beekeeping short course gave me a small container of Leatherwood honey for the collection of honeys that I bring to various meetings, classes, etc. I have tasted many different types of honey over the years and have experienced some very unique flavors. I must say that none compares to the "Leatherwood" I was given last night. I have shared it with my family and several coworkers in order to get a description, I wish to verify that this honey is really leatherwood and hasn't picked up any flavor from the previous contents of the container. Description: the honey is light in color and is crystallized like a honey spread with very fine crystals, yet pourable and not set hard (thixotropic ?). My immediate impression of taste was fruity. Coworkers described the taste as somewhat like apricot or peach. One said citrus. Older son said, "licorice like"(?) Younger son said, "sugary". Is this what leatherwood looks like and tastes like? If so, the beekeepers of Tasmania are very fortunate. Any info on the honey, the plant and production practices is appreciated. Tony J. Augusta, Maine, USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 09:58:56 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Queens M. Bogansky (unfortunately I forget his first name) asked about queens and related problems that we have heard so much about. At the ABF convention in Colorado in January a full two days were spent on this problem. "A full two days" means from 9:00am until 9:00pm, all scheduled meetings. No conclusions were drawn, but topics covered included: lack of drones; tracheal mite infections on shipped queens; unusual levels of stress by constantly moving bees for pollination; mite treatments; pesticides; etc. Sue Cobey's work at Ohio State with New World Carnolians seems to be having some beneficial effect on the tracheal mite part of this. If you would like more information go to http://iris.biosci.ohio-state.edu/honeybee/breeding and click on the New World Carnolian section. Lloyd LloydSpear@email.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 10:22:29 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Good Queens (Penn State Study) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Ron Bogansky wrote: > ... But for this spring purchasing queens for early splits > may be a problem. I posted last fall about a study done by Penn State > showing that a large number of commercial queens are to put it > bluntly, "poor". They have reported this back to the breeders but > who knows what will happen. Yes this is true, there have been documented cases of "poor queens" from more than one, perhaps many producers. Furthermore, a common cry industry wide is that queens just aren't what they used to be and supersedure seems to happen more often that in years gone by. A full day was spent on this topic at ABF in Colorado Springs (I did not attend and welcome comments from anyone who did). Queen producers are aware of the problem and are working very hard to address a problem for which they currently do not have the answers. The study out of Penn State, published by Marianne Frasier, did not name specific problem producers (although they did report back to producers whose queens did not perform well in the studies). It was not an intent of the study to "black ball" particular producers and their names were kept STRCITLY confidential, even in private converstaions. It was hoped that informing producers if their queens did not perform well would help them address the problems and produce better queens. In subsequent studies it was found that some of the "poor" queens improved and some of the better queens in the initial study performed to a lesser degree, which may be interpreted as sampling variation. The intent was not to determine that Producer X has a good product and Producer Y grows inferior queens, the intent was to determine why "inferior queens" are reported more commonly. The study was inconclusive as far as determining the cause of the poor queens. Suspect causes included trachael mites, nosema, poor mating, residual effects of miticides, lack of genetic diversity and perhaps others which don't come to mind as I write this without any texts in front of me. Reader beware, Aaron's writing from memory here! Trachael mites: the queen herself could have had trachael mites, hence causing poor performance. The drones with which the queens mated could have had trachael mites. Undetermined, yet to be answered: might trachael mites impact sperm production, egg production, queen acceptance or have other causal effects? Nosema: not something new, perhaps the "forgotten" culprit, certainly a commonly overlooked culprit, easily identifiable and treatable if the beekeeper is willing to spend the money and take the time. Possibly a reason why the same producer's queens performed differently in subsequent studies. Poor mating: We've touched on this in the past few days. Were there enough drones in the queen production area? Was the weather agreeable when the queen was making her nuptial flights? Were the drones healthy or might their sperm production have been below par for some reasons? Residual effects of miticides: Might the chemicals we've been putting into our hives be having an unforseen long term, cumulative effect that had not been anticipated in the EPA approval process? Could the "authorities" have overlooked something? Nahhhhh! Couldn't happen! Could it? Lack of genetic diversity: Roger Morse has long been touting this possibility. It has been illegal to import genetic material into the US since 1928! It may be that the law meant to protect us is actually biting us in the beehind! Naaahhhhhh! Couldn't happen! Could it? Other factors which don't come to mind: Not only my pea brain, but the superior university supported brains doing the study! Might there be other unknown factors which haven't come to anyone's mind? Well, who knows? They haven't come to mind! Might it be that "poor queens" isn't a new problem? Perhaps these problems have been with beekeepers for longer than we've known? Comments Andy? Perhaps supersedure is more common than credited? Good reason to mark your queens. Have queens indeed gotten worse or have beekeepers become more observant? I personally suspect (reader beware, Aaron's speculating here!) that the most likly culprit (if indeed this is a new problem) are trachael mites and mite treatments. Note I've avoided discussion of Varroa mites here - varroa mites simply ARE NOT interested in queens. However, trachael mites will infest queens and miticides, regardless of their nature, will impact the queen's environment. As a systems programmer problem solving begins with asking, "What's changed?". To me, the most obvious change in a hive environment within the past decade has been mites and treatments, hence the most likely area to look for answers. In the meantime the best that a small operation can do is to address the other suspects. Treat for diseases (AFB and nosema) to keep your bees as healthy as you are able. Keep young, healthy queens in your hives. If you're raising your own, learn as best as you can how it's properly done, start with healthy, free from disease bees, make sure your cell builders have ample pollen to nourish your grafts, make sure there are plenty of drones, maximize genetic diversity, realize it's more than dumb luck, and again, if the task of raising your own starts to seem daunting, find good reputable producers (more than one for diversity sake) and buy 'em. Aaron Morris - thinking good queens don't just happen! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 10:39:47 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Adam Finkelstein Organization: http://sunsite.unc.edu/bees Subject: Good Queens In-Reply-To: <980325.102254.EST.SYSAM@cnsibm.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 25 Mar 1998, Aaron Morris wrote: > I personally suspect (reader beware, Aaron's speculating here!) that > the most likly culprit (if indeed this is a new problem) are trachael > mites and mite treatments. Note I've avoided discussion of Varroa mites > here - varroa mites simply ARE NOT interested in queens. I've seen queens with varroa mites on them. The single most important aspect of queen quality after proper queen rearing technique (i.e. nutrition, and larval age) is selection of breeding stock. I have heard some "very interesting" selection stories from queen breeders. Adam ___________________________________________________________________________ Adam Finkelstein Internet Apiculture and Beekeeping Archive adamf@sunsite.unc.edu http://sunsite.unc.edu/bees ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 11:13:10 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Queen Rearing Discussion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Aaron Morris wrote: > Remember when starting grafts to use very young larvae, less that > two days old.... David Eyre challenged: > Second. Isn't the timing off a bit?. It takes eggs three days to > hatch! No, there's nothing wrong with the timing, it's an issue of semantics. But it's important for everyone to be on the same base and this issue WAS addressed at "queen school". Basic bee biology: the queen lays the eggs, which take three days to hatch. You know when the eggs hatch because you can see the egg shells. NO, I'm kidding here!!! Initially the eggs are simple structures - zygotes surrounded by a chitonous shell standing up/glued to the bottom of the brood cell. During the three days as an egg, cell divisions take place, the structure becomes more complex and when the egg hatches a chemical substances is released which dissolves the shell, the egg lays down, ceases being an egg and commences to be a larva. It is at this point in time that the clock starts running with regard to the 48 hour window for grafting a larva. Now, because I'm sure there will be some to challenge the 48 hour figure I have to take the time to agree that the larva can be more than 48 hours old and still produce a queen. Yes, a three day old larva can produce a queen. Going back to basic bee biology: ANY egg - wait!, any FERTILIZED egg can produce a queen. Under the proper conditions, any less than three day old larva that hatches from a fertilized egg can produce a queen. It is the queen producing beekeeper's job to mimic the proper conditions to change the destiny of the grafted less than 3 day old larva that hatched from the fertilized egg. Because there can be variation in the growth pattern/development time of individual fertilized eggs and larvae, an "optimal" candidate is a larva that is 48 hours old. It is also noteworthy that the sooner a queen rearing beekeeper can change the destiny of the developing larva the more likely they are to have better results. Since the larva does not come with a time stamp, it is important to develop a feel for the proper size for the larva. Laidlaw described this as a larva about 1 and a half times the size of an egg. I am able to see eggs, but when they lay down and become larvae the bees start feeding them with royal jelly. My eyes are such that I am not able to pick out larvae swimming in a pool of royal jelly until the larva has grown to a size/achieved an age where they are too old to graft. Some queen rearing techniques confine a queen in an area or on a frame or frames to ensure that all larvae in that area, frame or frames will be very close to the same age. Confining a queen assures that four or five days later all larvae it that area are ideal candidates for grafting. For the rest of the story I recommend _Contemporary_Queen_Rearing_. Aaron Morris - thinking no matter what is written, no matter how carefully, somebody's gonna challenge it! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 09:20:41 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rett Thorpe Subject: Re: Uncappers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > I noticed ads > for uncappers that used rotating brushes or chains to remove cappings. > > > Anyone have any experience with them? Is > anything like that still available? > > Ron Bogansky > Kutztown, PA > I have never used one, so I can't offer any thoughts about their effectiveness, however, I do know where there is a used on for sale here in Utah. By the looks of the machine, is has had very little use. Contact me if interested. Rett Thorpe Rettt@Sterwent.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 18:12:52 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Vladimir V. Obolonkin" Subject: Re: Weighing Hives Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi All, Here is Vladimir Obolonkin from Belarus. One friend of mine is very experienced disigner of different sensors (of force, pressure, displacement etc.). Few year ago he designed for me a sensor for pulse wave. It is very sensitive and accurate. He and his family are great honey-eater so when I started bee-keping our friendship became closer :-) A week ago I've seen his new device -- an electronic scales for trucks. I asked him to make a draft of platform-type scales having in mind to weight hives, sugar and honey (I hope :-). He said 'no problem! Give me a conditions.' I have no experience of using hive scales have red interesting discussion wich took place in BEE-L before I joined it (Thanks to SEARCH!). May be anybody wants to add few cents? Does anybody have a description of analogical electronic scales? Bee healthy! Vlad We have -5C in night, +5C in day. Sunny. Snow goes away. All my 8 colonies are alive and inner cover is warm under pillows. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 09:56:52 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Subject: Update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Since I've been talking about nosema and wintering and such, I thought I should bring the list up to date on my latest. Firstly I've been out checking bees, and in the hives we've looked at so far this time (about 50 out of the 1,850 in outdoor wintering), I found one dead and one poor. Most are very strong. On previous trips to other hives a month ago there was virtually no attrition, so we were wondering if it would be different this time. It wasn't. Moreover, our tests for nosema show almost zero levels and that screws up our intent to try different nosema treatments. More on this below... Anyhow, the Homemade (Am I spelling this correctly?) Bee Science Pages are coming right along, and although they are still under construction, I imagine they will always be, as other beekeepers or extension people come up with experiments worth chronicling there. The idea behind the Homemade Bee Science Pages is that we as -- practical beekeepers -- run valid scientific experiments to test our theories under the watchful and critical eye of our peers , and the eyes of extension people and science pros. I invite you to visit, and plan to take some time there, since there is already some pretty worthwhile dialogue -- IMO. The address is: http://www.internode.net/honeybee/BeeScience/ Now, back to our wintering success. After two bad winter losses, why are we so lucky this year? Well, for one, we did have a mild winter. there is no discounting that, but we have *never* seen the bees looking so good. We have never treated for tracheal mite, although we have had infestations averaging around 10% or less for the last several years. The thing we did do differently this past year is that we fed pollen supplement all spring and also used medicated grease patties. As a result of the latter, we did not see *any* (zero) AFB in the whole outfit last year. Usually we see a hive or two with a touch of this minor nuisance. As a result of the pollen supplement, we were able to split heavily and also we did not see any small bees, as we usually do -- except in a few hives that refused their rations when we omitted pollen in the patties. Needless to say, we will be feeding supplement heavily again this year. ... And lastly, FWIW, the Free Bee Classifieds are getting a lot of attention. Moreover, I notice that things are being sold through them. Allen -- Buy, sell, trade, get a job, hire help, announce a meeting, advertise a business or publication... For free *beekeeping related* classified ads, visit http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/BeeAds/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 10:21:30 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: aarcher Subject: temporary storage of queen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01BD57D7.C6D6E840" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BD57D7.C6D6E840 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have the need to store a queen (which has been ordered and is to be used for requeening) while I'm away from home. A neighbor will be receiving the queen from the post while I'm gone. Is there a recommended way to store a queen temporarily ( a full two weeks) until I can install in my solo hive?. I do have a couple of frames of spare comb (with capped honey and pollen), a couple of spare brood combs, and an extra hive body as resources (other than the one very weak hive that needs requeening). Any suggestions? You may e-mail me directly. ------=_NextPart_000_01BD57D7.C6D6E840 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I have the need to store a queen (which = has been ordered and is to be used for requeening)  while I'm away = from home.  A neighbor will be receiving the queen from the post = while I'm gone. Is there a  recommended way to store a queen = temporarily ( a full two weeks) until I can install in my solo hive?. =  I do have a couple of frames of spare comb (with capped honey and = pollen), a couple of spare brood combs, and an extra hive body as = resources (other than the one very weak hive that needs = requeening).
Any suggestions?  You may e-mail me directly.

------=_NextPart_000_01BD57D7.C6D6E840-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 10:33:10 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Uncappers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > I noticed ads for uncappers that used rotating brushes or chains to > remove cappings. Anyone have any experience with them? I use a Dakota Guness and it uses this chain principal, only the combs travel down a conveyor belt through a tunnel which houses the chain flails, rather than being lowered individually into the flail housing as in the small chain units you are likely considering. IMO, they all work just fine. FWIW, up here in Alberta, a neighbour has altered the Cowen system -- with Cowen's blessing, I gather -- to use chains rather than knives. he has sold quite a number. Allen ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 23:42:48 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tom Speight Subject: Re: Drone Foundation In-Reply-To: <03273252507462@systronix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <03273252507462@systronix.net>, Excerpts from BEE-L writes >Incidently, Betterbee also has Snelgrove's >Swarming:-It's_Causes_and_Control Should it not be 'Swarming, it's Control and Prevention'??? -- Stinger ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 20:05:44 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=F8rn_Johanesson?= Comments: To: aarcher@wnmc.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01BD5829.651ACAC0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BD5829.651ACAC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello! Best way! Take some uncapped brood frames(2 or 3) with bees from a strong hive and = put in an empthy hive. Then shuttle some bees from other brood frames = into the hive. these bees are mainly young bees. leave the hive alone for some hours so = that the old bees can leave the hive and return to home. 1.. Place the new queen in the mailing container in the hive open for it = if it is closed, it bet it have an entrance. 2.. then just leave them alone while you are away.=20 3.. when you need to requeen the other hive then just place the = temporary hive over the brood chamber with a newspaper sheet between, of = course after having removed the old queen.=20 4.. then leave them alone for a 14 days or so and then you can = reorganise the Hive. regards Jorn Johanesson Beekeeper since 1995 EDBi =3D Beekeeping software since 1986 homepages http://wn.com.au/apimo http://home4.inet.tele.dk/apimo e-mail apimo@post4.tele.dk ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BD5829.651ACAC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello!
Best=20 way!
 
Take some uncapped = brood frames(2 or=20 3) with bees from a strong hive and put in an empthy=20 hive. Then shuttle some bees from other brood frames into the=20 hive.
these=20 bees are mainly young bees. leave the hive alone for some hours so that = the old=20 bees can leave the  hive and return to home.
 
  1. Place the new queen = in the mailing=20 container in the hive open for it if it is closed, it bet it have an = entrance.
  2.  then just = leave them alone=20 while you are away.
  3. when you need to = requeen the other=20 hive then just place the temporary hive over the brood chamber with = a=20 newspaper sheet between, of course = after having=20 removed the old queen.
  4. then leave them = alone for a 14=20 days or so and then you can reorganise the Hive.
regards
Jorn = Johanesson Beekeeper=20 since 1995 
EDBi =3D Beekeeping = software since=20 1986
homepages     http://wn.com.au/apimo
  = ;            =            =20 http://home4.inet.tele.dk/apimo<= /A>
e-mail          =     =20 apimo@post4.tele.dk
<= /BODY> ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BD5829.651ACAC0-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 14:14:14 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK Subject: Re: Apistan questions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Paul Bashore writes back to Elroy: "Mineral oil would cost a lot less." Has any goverment agency, like Dr. Shimanuki at ARS, Dr. Bill Wilson at Weslaco, Dr. Tom Rinderer at Baton Rouge or any noted research groups like Dr. Nick Calderone at Cornell, Mary Ann Frazier at Penn State, Dr. Jim Tew at Ohio State or any tutorial associations like EAS or ABF scientificly proven or endorsed the use of mineral oil? My bees do NOT get medicated without the medicine being approved by scientific study. Likewise, I doubt if any of us would solicit our highly skilled meat market butcher to perform an appendectomy on my child because cheaper. Frugality, or "guarding one's pennies" has value, but I want scientific endorsement of any product used to control disease or pests. The days of ringing bells and wrapping on pans to bring a swarm of bees to settlement is as obsolete as your grandmother's bustle. George Imirie, retired scientist, 65 years in Maryland beekeeping ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 14:16:01 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Storing queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT aarcher asks: ... Is there a recommended way to store a queen temporarily (a full two weeks) until I can install in my solo hive?.... My recommendation is to call your queen producer, have THEM store your queen for a week and a half and have it shipped to arrive upon your return. Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 13:19:52 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Elroy Rogers Subject: Re: Queen rearing discussion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello fellow beekeepers, On this subject no one has mentioned the viability of larvae being grafted. How long can the larvae be out in the open without bees caring for them? It seems to me that there is only a certain amount of time before the larvae drys out or gets chilled. I have read the book The Hive and The Honey Bee on queen rearing section but they talk very little about this. Is there any way of telling if the larvae your grafting may no longer be any good, so as not to waste time on them? I am sure the bees will know by not building up the grafted cells that have poor larvae in them. My plan is to place a hot water bottle under the jenter box warmed to 90 degrees and try to keep the humidity up in the area used. When using the cell plugs only there should be much of a problem, but I plan on grafting some of the extra larvae not in the cell plugs. This is where the problem of drying out or getting chilled larvae could arise. Another question is the bees in the swarm box, how many times can they be used before they are too old to be used for starting queen cells? I would guess maybe 3 times if I repeated the cycle every two days, or is it best to start with fresh bees each time? The book above says the bees can produce royal jelly for the first 2 weeks of bees life, but I would think their less capable of producing royal jelly as they get older. Thanks for any feed back Elroy ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 15:00:13 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Queen Rearing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Elroy Rogers queried about " ... the viability of larvae being grafted. How long can the larvae be out in the open without bees caring for them?" One of the few cast in stone beekeeping rules of thumb is, "When it doubt, throw them out!". Steve Tabor has written that humidity (desiccation - drying out) is more of a concern that chilling. Some producers have special grafting rooms which are heated and in which they will sprinkle water on the floor to raise humidity. > My plan is to place a hot water bottle under the jenter box warmed to > 90 degrees and try to keep the humidity up in the area used. Perhaps a good plan. Be sure the water isn't too hot - I've par-boiled a few. > ... I plan on grafting some of the extra larvae not in the cell > plugs. This is where the problem of drying out or getting chilled > larvae could arise. Definitely a concern. Time is of the essence and it's one of those things where beginners are at a disadvantage. > how many times can the bees in the swarm box be used before they are > too old to be used for starting queen cells? I'm assuming you're referring to the bees in your cell builder colonies and the answer here is, depends. Depends how you set up your cell builders, whether you refresh them and if so, how often. Commercial operations can set up cell builders and continually refresh them for an entire season. Refreshing them means shaking new young bee from other colonies into your cell builders. It also depends on whether you are using finishing colonies or not. Just checked the archives and your goal is to raise as many queens as possible. I recommend Laidlaw's _Contemporary_Queen_Rearing_ - latest edition just released, available from Wicwas Press. E-mail Larry Connor at LJConnor@aol.com Finally for the record, I have been offering a lot on queen rearing the past few days. I DO NOT/HAVE NOT raised my own. I have taken Sue Cobey's queen rearing course at Ohio State, but a two day class hardly qualifies me as an expert. I came away from the class with a far greater appreciation for the art of queen rearing and came to the conclusion that I'm better off leaving it to the pros. I follow my own advice and buy my queens. I intend to start raising some of my own this season but my expectations are to learn as I go, not to propagate a 1000 hive apairy in a single season. Aaron Morris - thinking it's time to go home! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 14:10:56 -0500 Reply-To: "Glen B. Glater" Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Glen B. Glater" Subject: How do you get honeybees out of the wall of a house? Hi everyone! A friend believes that she has a honeybee hive in between the outer and inner walls of her house. I have not yet gotten over to verify if they are honeybees, but she *insists* that they are not yellowjackets and all behavior that she describes is consistent with honeybees. So: 1.) how do I get the bees out of her wall? 2.) do I need to worry about the honey etc. that the bees leave behind assuming that I get them out? That is, do I need to plan to tear apart the wall to take out whatever comb/honey is in there? Will it destroy the wall? Thanks. ...email replies to glen@midnight.com please... --glen ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 15:23:52 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Midnitebee Subject: Re: How do you get honeybees out of the wall of a house? Comments: To: "Glen B. Glater" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit How about this procedure? Instead of using smoke,BeeGo, or opening the wall,make an inch auger hole in the wall and insert a swab on a stick that has been saturated with bitter almond oil and the bees come right out ready to be hived. has anyone tried this routine.. Holly-B Apiary P.O.Box 26 Wells,Maine 04090-0026 http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee -----Original Message----- From: Glen B. Glater To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Date: Wednesday, March 25, 1998 3:08 PM Subject: How do you get honeybees out of the wall of a house? >Hi everyone! > >A friend believes that she has a honeybee hive in between the outer >and inner walls of her house. I have not yet gotten over to verify if >they are honeybees, but she *insists* that they are not yellowjackets >and all behavior that she describes is consistent with honeybees. > >So: > >1.) how do I get the bees out of her wall? > >2.) do I need to worry about the honey etc. that the bees leave >behind assuming that I get them out? That is, do I need to plan to >tear apart the wall to take out whatever comb/honey is in there? Will >it destroy the wall? > >Thanks. > >...email replies to glen@midnight.com please... > >--glen > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 13:22:23 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: Apistan questions In-Reply-To: <4e39711d.35195788@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 02:14 PM 3/25/98 -0500, you wrote: >George says: >Has any goverment agency, like Dr. Shimanuki at ARS, Dr. Bill Wilson at >Weslaco, Dr. Tom Rinderer at Baton Rouge or any noted research groups like Dr. >Nick Calderone at Cornell, Mary Ann Frazier at Penn State, Dr. Jim Tew at Ohio >State or any tutorial associations like EAS or ABF scientificly proven or >endorsed the use of mineral oil? Hi George & Bee Friends, The real question should be do any of the above, all good people, keep bees or make their living off of keeping bees, or just those who keep bees? I wonder why we seem to think any academic or regulatory bee scientist would have the time or inclination to do anything new, most have it made or at least more to do then they want or can do now. They do their doctorate and that's most of the time all the original thinking that's demanded from them. Some do have to publish papers, but you will look a long time to find one of these papers that would report on products in use such as Mineral Oil other then the bee journals. The use of Mineral Oil by beekeepers to control pests is really not a question for scientists to do research on, its more a extension problem, one of Trial and Error to be done in the field by grunt bee keepers. >My bees do NOT get medicated without the medicine being approved by scientific >study. Different strokes for different folks. Because someone holds a position in a public agency with a high degree from another public institution does not reflect in anyway their practical knowledge in any subject other then time on the job and their good fortune and politics. In beekeeping the so called bee scientist's are more times then not the last one's to acknowledge a problem or its solution. Bee science has had to move away from the applied world we all live in to one of the basic study of bees because we all have for years found a glaring deficiency in our understanding of honeybees, and of course beekeepers can not afford to fund those applied studies at todays high costs in the available study systems. So we have a mostly a government regulatory scientific community directing the applied research in beekeeping, and that suck's as little is done or ever will be. IMHO. Some creative bee scientists have been able to fund their work outside of the bee industry and at the same time make what they are doing interesting and attractive to beekeepers and the public. The WWW is demonstrating a new dimension in science for beekeeper just watch Jerry B. Bromenshenk, Ph.D. Director, DOE/EPSCoR & Montana Organization for Research in Energy, The University of Montana-Missoula who has been able to present basic research in a format that interests the beekeeper and the public. Will his papers lead to changes in applied beekeeping, maybe not, but he is using applied beekeeping knowledge recognized by beekeepers around the world and who knows what changes we will want to make from his own modifications of what we do everyday. WHAT IF?... Jerry suddenly announced he used no chemical controls for bee pests? I wonder how many would make the switch or would we all have to wait for the bee research to be published. I suspect we beekeepers are on the farm chemical treadmill and will remain their for many generations to come as only another chemical can replace a chemical that falls out of flavor when your on that path. >Likewise, I doubt if any of us would solicit our highly skilled meat >market butcher to perform an appendectomy on my child because cheaper. How true, but it also true that if I wanted to know how to cut meat I would not look up some government meat regulator or food scientist to find out how to do it. >Frugality, or "guarding one's pennies" has value, but I want scientific >endorsement of any product used to control disease or pests. The days of >ringing bells and wrapping on pans to bring a swarm of bees to settlement is >as obsolete as your grandmother's bustle. I look at it a little different, history has a way of repeating itself and those who fail to study and learn from the past are doomed to failure in the bee business, that I believe is a fact. Many commercial beekeepers have moved back to the old ways not always to save money but sometimes because of new regulations. One example of this is the chemical control of wax worms in the west. By using inexpensive environmental controls in comb storage buildings beekeepers not only are able to reduce their dependence on chemicals but save considerable money in doing so and in fact do a better job of controlling the pest. I do not know if Mineral Oil works or will ever replace chemical controls now the crutch so many beekeepers seem to be wedded to in the bee world. I do know that real problems exist with using chemicals, the main one being they do not seem to work for everybody and for every season. Its a fact that some beekeepers do everything by the book or label and still have horrific losses, maybe not our problem this spring but surely one in the near past many times over. Also you can not believe what you read in those slick chemical advertisements or even on the label with chemical products as the so called "inert" ingredients are subject to change for year to year. I do know how many beekeepers are actually trying or using Mineral Oil but I do know that if a large number of beekeepers use it and don't use other chemicals, and are able to live with it, then the bee scientists and regulatory scientists will get interested very fast. Or they may not as little money is involved in using this product and any effort at regulation or registration would be a waste of someone's money, guess who's. IMHO, if every beekeeper would try Mineral Oil and lay off some of the other stuff that is being used today in the bee industry behind the barn a great deal of potential danger to the industry would be avoided and we all would be ahead and we would have many more experiences to base our decision making on. ttul, the OLd Drone http://209.76.50.54 (c)Permission is given to copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 22:49:29 +0200 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jan Tempelman Organization: Home Subject: ringing bells and wrapping on pans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 R0ltYXN0ZXJCSyB3cm90ZToNCj4gDQo+ICBUaGUgZGF5cyBvZg0KPiByaW5naW5nIGJlbGxz IGFuZCB3cmFwcGluZyBvbiBwYW5zIHRvIGJyaW5nIGEgc3dhcm0gb2YgYmVlcyB0byBzZXR0 bGVtZW50IGlzDQo+IGFzIG9ic29sZXRlIGFzIHlvdXIgZ3JhbmRtb3RoZXIncyBidXN0bGUu DQoNCg0KRG9uJ3QgZm9yZ2V0IHRoYXQgdG8gZG8gdGhhdCwgIHRoZSBiZWVzIGdvZXMgdG8g c2V0dGxlbWVudCBpbiAxMCBtaW51dGVzISEhDQpVbmZvcnR1bmFseTsgdGhleSBkbyB0aGF0 IGFsc28gaW4gMTAgbWludXRlcyB3aXNob3V0IHJpbmdpbmcgYW5kIHdyYXBwaW5nIG9uDQpw YW5zIDstKQ0KDQp0aGUgcmluZ2luZyBiZWxscyBhbmQgd3JhcHBpbmcgb24gcGFucyB3YXMg Zm9yDQoidG8gaW5kaWNhdGUgdGhhdCB0aGUgc3dhcm0gd2FzICJmb3VuZCIiDQpzbyB0aGUg ZmluZGVyIChyaW5nZXIvd3JhcHBlcikgd2FzIG5vdyB0aGUgKG5ldz8pIG93bmVyDQoNCmdy ZWV0aW5nLCBqYW4NCg0KYnR3DQoNCrCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCw sLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsA0KSmFuIFRlbXBlbG1hbiAvIEluZWtlIERyYWJi ZSAgICAgfCAgICAgbWFpbHRvOmp0ZW1wQHhzNGFsbC5ubA0KU3RlcnJlbW9zIDE2ICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgMzA2OSBBUyBSb3R0ZXJkYW0sIFRoZSBOZXRoZXJsYW5kcw0KVGVsL0ZheCAo U09NRVRJTUVTKSBYWCAzMSAoMCkxMC00NTY5NDEyDQpodHRwOi8vd3d3LnhzNGFsbC5ubC9+ anRlbXAvaW5kZXgzLmh0bWwNCrCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCw sLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsA0KDQo= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 23:47:53 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ivan McGill Subject: Re: Queen rearing discussion Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Hello fellow beekeepers, > > On this subject no one has mentioned the viability of larvae being >grafted. How long can the larvae be out in the open without bees caring >for them? It seems to me that there is only a certain amount of time >before the larvae drys out or gets chilled. I have read the book The >Hive and The Honey Bee on queen rearing section but they talk very >little about this. Is there any way of telling if the larvae your >grafting may no longer be any good, so as not to waste time on them? I >am sure the bees will know by not building up the grafted cells that >have poor larvae in them. My plan is to place a hot water bottle under >the jenter box warmed to 90 degrees and try to keep the humidity up in >the area used. When using the cell plugs only there should be much of a >problem, but I plan on grafting some of the extra larvae not in the cell >plugs. This is where the problem of drying out or getting chilled larvae >could arise. Drying out of the larvae is more inportant than heat. I attended a seminar on queen rearing and a speaker said that sometimes they wrap a wet towel around a frame that they were going to graft from, if transporting any distance. >Another question is the bees in the swarm box, how many times can they >be used before they are too old to be used for starting queen cells? I >would guess maybe 3 times if I repeated the cycle every two days, or is >it best to start with fresh bees each time? The book above says the bees >can produce royal jelly for the first 2 weeks of bees life, but I would >think their less capable of producing royal jelly as they get older. > >Thanks for any feed back > >Elroy ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 00:01:49 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ivan McGill Subject: Re: Update Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Allan Dick Wrote: >We have never treated for tracheal mite, although we have had infestations >averaging around 10% or less for the last several years. The thing we did >do differently this past year is that we fed pollen supplement all spring >and also used medicated grease patties. As a result of the latter, we did >not see *any* (zero) AFB in the whole outfit last year. Usually we see a >hive or two with a touch of this minor nuisance. As a result of the >pollen supplement, we were able to split heavily and also we did not see >any small bees, as we usually do -- except in a few hives that refused >their rations when we omitted pollen in the patties. > >Needless to say, we will be feeding supplement heavily again this year. On the supplement feeding what is your mixture? Or have you already posted it? Ivan McGill Prince George, B.C. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 19:36:56 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeemanNick Subject: Re: Christian Beekeeper List Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit i would agree they do prefer to swarm on sundays in Iowa too!!! Nick ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 19:43:13 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: Christian Beekeeper List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >I have noticed that my bees are noticeably less active on Sunday mornings and >gather together in groups in various spots around their hives. Could this be >in observance of a religious ceremony? Um.........No... no other comment seems necessary....except: get a grip..they are BEES! Ian Watson realtor@niagara.com real estate agent gardener baritone beekeeper---> 6 colonies and counting ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 19:13:40 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert Barnett Subject: Re: leatherwood honey from Tazmania Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hello Anthony: These comments are not intended to relate to "Tazmanian" Leatherwood, and I suspect these plants referenced are very different. Leatherwood in the Southeastern USA (southern Virginia down the coastal states, to and including Florida then west to Louisiana, especially in the " Coastal Plain" areas of these states, have such a plant, more often called Titi, which is botanically, Cyrilla racemiflora L. It is a semi-evergreen shrub or small tree with gray or reddish spongy bark, and thick leathery glossy leaves with a netlike venation pattern on the upper surface. Numerous racemes 4-12 inches long are born on second year growth. The small flowers are about 1/16 inch across, white, with 5 petals bearing glandular tissue on the inner surface and secreting a nectar that is attractive to bees. Down this far south they bloom quite early, and are in fact gone by mid april in south central Alabama where I maintained a strong colony for 5 or 6 years. There, the plant does not produce honey for harvest because of 1) insufficient number of plants 2) the bees do not pursue it with enthusiasm. I have never tasted this honey, but further south near the coast, Titi does have a role. Perhaps, someone from that area will comment. Further, it has a reputation for contributing to, if not causing " Purple brood", as a manifestation of the nectar's poisonous effect on the brood. I have seen my bees working the few plants near my colony, but have not seen purple brood. I believe there are other varieties of leatherwood up as far as the northeastern states and even Maine, where it may be called Black Titi, or Buckwheat Tree. Nothing further ---------- > From: Anthony M Jadczak > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: leatherwood honey from Tazmania > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 09:41:49 -0500 > > Last night, one of the students in a beekeeping short course gave me a > small container of Leatherwood honey for the collection of honeys that > I bring to various meetings, classes, etc. I have tasted many > different types of honey . Any info on the honey, the plant and > production practices is appreciated. Tony J. Augusta, Maine, USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 20:58:33 -0500 Reply-To: mpalmer@together.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Palmer Organization: French Hill Apiaries Subject: Re: temporary storage of queen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------17D35115A6522E3D706DF2D0" --------------17D35115A6522E3D706DF2D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aaron Morris is probably correct. But, I've stored hundreds of queen above an excluder over a strong hive whose bees are "up top." I use an old seven wire excluder. Place the q-cage screen down, over the excluder grid. The wooden slats of the 7-wire excluder hold the cage just enough above the grid. Place a rim (empty shallow super?) on the excluder, a wool cloth to keep the heat in, then the hive covers. Lose a few once in awhile. Ive kept them like this for more than a month. aarcher wrote: > I have the need to store a queen (which has been ordered and is to be > used for requeening) while I'm away from home. A neighbor will be > receiving the queen from the post while I'm gone. Is there a > recommended way to store a queen temporarily ( a full two weeks) until > I can install in my solo hive?. I do have a couple of frames of spare > comb (with capped honey and pollen), a couple of spare brood combs, > and an extra hive body as resources (other than the one very weak hive > that needs requeening). > Any suggestions? You may e-mail me directly. --------------17D35115A6522E3D706DF2D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aaron Morris is probably correct. But, I've stored hundreds of queen above an excluder over a strong hive whose bees are "up top." I use an old seven wire excluder. Place the q-cage screen down, over the excluder grid. The wooden slats of the 7-wire excluder hold the cage just enough above the grid. Place a rim (empty shallow super?) on the excluder, a wool cloth to keep the heat in, then the hive covers. Lose a few once in awhile. Ive kept them like this for more than a month.

aarcher wrote:

I have the need to store a queen (which has been ordered and is to be used for requeening)  while I'm away from home.  A neighbor will be receiving the queen from the post while I'm gone. Is there a  recommended way to store a queen temporarily ( a full two weeks) until I can install in my solo hive?.  I do have a couple of frames of spare comb (with capped honey and pollen), a couple of spare brood combs, and an extra hive body as resources (other than the one very weak hive that needs requeening).
Any suggestions?  You may e-mail me directly.
  --------------17D35115A6522E3D706DF2D0-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 21:44:48 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tony Ritcherson Subject: Re: Christian Beekeeper List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit After giving this much consideration, I have, I think, ascertained your problem. You have Baptist Bees, Methodist Bees, and Lutheran Bees all in the same hive!!! -----Original Message----- From: Jeffrey R. Hills To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Date: Wednesday, March 25, 1998 8:14 AM Subject: Re: Christian Beekeeper List >I have noticed that my bees are noticeably less active on Sunday mornings and >gather together in groups in various spots around their hives. Could this be >in observance of a religious ceremony? > > >Patrick & Mary Caldwell wrote: > >> Hello John... >> >> Please add me to the Christian beekeeper list. >> >> Thanks! >> >> Mary Caldwell >> mpcenterprises@mci2000.com >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: John M Thorp >> To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU >> Date: Tuesday, March 24, 1998 8:38 PM >> Subject: Christian Beekeeper List >> >> This letter hope fully will not upset any individual or group.Some time >> back I was approached by someone on the list concerning the start of a >> christian beekeeper list. Having no idea what could come of it the only >> idea that comes to mind is this. Would all of you saints of the most high >> God send me a private e/mail. After that we can go with how the Lord >> leads. Any ideas would be appreciated and shared with all who write. >> Take Care and GBY-John in Homestead- - Jesus Christ Is The Only >> Answer,Joshua24:15 >> >> _____________________________________________________________________ >> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com >> Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 21:37:46 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Alden P. Marshall" Subject: Re: queen rearing discussion group? Have had all the success I need raisinfg drones with foundationless frames. Also always use medium size so they will fit my msh/mash of brood chamber sizes (still culling out deeps). When placed in a deep box the bees just extend it below the bottom board. Of course you don't try this with a cup full of bees. I have a whole box of drone foundation setting in my shed, it's been there a couple years since I found it's use a waste of time and expense. Alden Marshall B-Line Apiaries Hudson, NH 03051 Busybee9@Juno.com tel. 603-883-6764 _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 12:59:30 +1100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Kevin Murray Subject: Clover honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit One of the best and most difficult to obtain honey in Australia is a Victorian clover honey. I first tasted this light honey two years ago and was impressed by its delicate perfume that lingers on the tongue. I've been trying to find it again since, but without success. I noted during a recent visit to the US that the most common honey on the shelves was called 'clover'. I wonder if this marks a difference in the way bees are distributed, or simply a difference of naming convention between the two counties. Does 'clover' refer to a specific bee realm, or is it a generic term, like 'ground flora'? __________________________________________________ Kevin Murray http://home.mira.net/~kmurray Forecast for Melbourne Issued at 0505 on Thursday the 26th of March 1998 Fine, mainly sunny day with a light to moderate southeast to southerly wind. Max 20 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 22:40:30 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tony Ritcherson Subject: Re: Christian Beekeeper List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You have evidently mistaken the swarming for the Christian habit of rushing to Shoney's after the Sunday morning church service! -----Original Message----- From: BeemanNick To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Date: Wednesday, March 25, 1998 7:38 PM Subject: Re: Christian Beekeeper List >i would agree they do prefer to swarm on sundays in Iowa too!!! > >Nick ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 03:44:00 +1200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Organization: Bay of Plenty Polytechnic Subject: Articles on-line MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I've added a number of old NZ Beekeeping magazine articles that I wrote in the 1980s to the NZ Beekeeping site. They mostly deal with hobby beekeeping topics - how/why to requeen, how to super up your hives, feed sugar syrup, what to do with your honey, and even how to make candles and other things from the 'other products of the hive...' You can get to the index at: http://www.beekeeping.co.nz/articles.htm There aren't any pretty graphics (until I can get around to doing the misc scanning) but a lot of nice text. Gotta say that - I wrote the articles, albeit under a pseudonym! (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- home nickw@beekeeping.co.nz (/ work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz NZ Beekeeping http://www.beekeeping.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 20:43:18 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." Subject: Plans for Hive parts Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Can anyone point me in direction of a WEb resource for plans to build hive parts? Thanks. Paul Cronshaw, D.C. Cyberchiro/High School Teacher and Hobbyist Beekeeper Santa Barbara, CA USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 11:08:02 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Kel Landrith Subject: Re: Plans for Hive parts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Paul Cronshaw, D.C. wrote: > Can anyone point me in direction of a WEb resource for plans to build hive > parts? Thanks. > > Paul Cronshaw, D.C. > Cyberchiro/High School Teacher and Hobbyist Beekeeper > Santa Barbara, CA USA Try Barry's Bee Page: http://www.birkey.com/BLB/index.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 21:46:42 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." Subject: Information Requested Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Am looking for information (Address etc) on a school in Mexico that trains people to be beekeepers. Thanks for any information. Paul Cronshaw, D.C. Cyberchiro/High School Teacher and Hobbyist Beekeeper Santa Barbara, CA USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 22:13:30 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." Subject: Bees in Wall Comments: To: glen@midnight.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Glen, I have been taking bees out of walls for several years using the bait hive technique. Basically you need wire mesh which covers the opening and tapers to a thin point that accomodates an exiting bee. This is a one way street out of the wall. Place (on a ladder or supporting from overhang) a nuc ( 2-3 frames of bees and queen) near the wire exit , the closer the better. Over 4-6 weeks the wall bees will move in with the bait hive bees and the colony in the wall will die out. Then you can remove the wire mesh and let the bees rob out the honey.. (might not want to do this because of disease transmittal etc) or leave as is and let the ants and wax moths take out the comb. Make sure you plug up the wall really well or a future swarm will move back in. BTW. Many cities will require a contractor's license to remove the wall Paul Cronshaw DC Hobby beekeeper in Santa Barbara,CA ****** Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 14:10:56 -0500 From: "Glen B. Glater" Subject: How do you get honeybees out of the wall of a house? Hi everyone! A friend believes that she has a honeybee hive in between the outer and inner walls of her house. I have not yet gotten over to verify if they are honeybees, but she *insists* that they are not yellowjackets and all behavior that she describes is consistent with honeybees. So: 1.) how do I get the bees out of her wall? 2.) do I need to worry about the honey etc. that the bees leave behind assuming that I get them out? That is, do I need to plan to tear apart the wall to take out whatever comb/honey is in there? Will it destroy the wall? Thanks. ...email replies to glen@midnight.com please... --glen - ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 21:08:44 PST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Re: Leatherwood honey from Tazmania MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Firstly it is Tasmania. No Z. Those Taswegians would get offended . Leatherwood is of the genus Eucryphia. It is a tree that only grows in = Tasmania although I believe that there is a little in Victoria but not = many trees. Leatherwood is marketed as a floral source and is unique to = Tasmania.. If you want details and brochures, send me an e.mail and I = will give you an address to write to. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 21:20:18 PST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Re: queen rearing discussion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Aaron wrote - thinking no matter what is written, no matter how carefully= , somebody's going to challenge it. Well, Aaron, I won't let you down. If I, as a commerial queen bee breeder, grafted larvae that was 48 hours = old, I would be in big trouble. My aim is less than 24 hours old. How = do I do this? By putting in combs and taking them out after 4 days. Yes= , someone may quote research to say that eggs can hatch is less than 3 = days but the general rule is 3 days. There is work by Prof. Woyke from Poland that shows as the age of the lar= ve increases, when you are rearing queens, the number of ovarioles decrea= ses. This then in turn means that the queen will not be able to lay the = same number eggs in a day. This then means less bees and therefore less = honey gathered. So, the younger the better. Things like the Jenter system will deliver = this but as a commerial breeder, the Jenter stystem does not allow me to = produce the number of cells I require. Also, it is too time consuming = and, as others have posted, is not real reliable so it is not good for = a commercial operation. Of course, there are many other factors that will affect the quality of = the queen produced but I can start by selecting the youngest larvae possi= ble and therefore getting more ovarioles per queen. By the way, was there ever a proceedings or papers published from the ABF= seminar? Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 06:49:43 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "A.S.CHESNICK" Organization: LPA Subject: ringing bells and rapping on pans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit it is one also one heck of a way to get some bees to attack you... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 23:10:06 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: JLariviere Subject: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: Apitherapy Courses set to begin in July Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Apitherapy Knowledge Review Course Scheduled for July 1998 NEW YORK, NY March 25 /HealthLine/ -- The American Apitherapy Society (AAS) today announced its summer program will run in conjunction with the preliminary course work of the Eastern Apicultural Society (EAS). The Apitherapy Knowledge Review Courses (AKRC) will be held at the beautiful Seven Springs Ski Resort in Pennsylvania. These 2= day courses will provide two levels of study for individuals interested in the healing properties of products from the beehive: Level 1 Basics of Beekeeping Bee Pathology & Physiology Protocols of Bee Venom Therapy (BVT) Acupuncture and BVT Adverse Reactions Legal Issues Documentation/Recording Clinical Examples: Arthritis, Multiple Sclerosis (MS) Level 2 (Pre-requisite Level 1) Human Physiology Principles of Apitherapy Apitherapy vs. Bee Venom Therapy Hive Products for Medicinal Purposes - Royal Jelly, Propolis, Pollen, Honey Detailed review of Basic Protocol Desensitization Protocol Adverse Reactions Legal Issues Documentation/Recording Clinical Examples: Arthritis, MS, Scars, Acute Injuries All educational materials and certificates of attendance will be provided by the AAS. The cost for each level of training is $250 with an early registration discount of $225 for those signed up by May 15th. Lunches and lodging are available through the ski resort at special rates. For registration information contact Linda Day, American Apitherapy Society (tel) 937-466-9214 (fax) 937-466-9215 FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS: What are the Apitherapy Knowledge Review Courses? Led by a recognized and experienced group as practicing Apitherapists, these courses are designed for lay Apitherapists, patients of Apitherapy, beekeepers and medical practitioners interested in this natural medicine from the beehive. Why were these courses established? The mission of the AAS is to gather and disseminate information about the healing use of products from the beehive. To establish a recognized body of knowledge about Apitherapy, the AAS has created the Apitherapy Knowledge Review Courses. With a working standard for ethics and safety, more individuals can learn the best available information on improving health with the honeybee. What are the benefits of these courses? Besides gaining new insight into the best body of knowledge already in existence on the potent qualities of hive products, participants will also acquire hands-on training from practicing Apitherapists. Upon completion of the courses, graduates will receive a Certificate from the AAS, documenting that an individual has met certain standards and has been recognized by his or her peers to have the knowledge and skills necessary for safe and competent practice of Apitherapy. Do these courses provide a license for Apitherapy? The Apitherapy Knowledge Review Courses are provided as an educational service by the AAS. The Certificate of Completion does not confer a license to practice medicine, but rather the courses seek to educate and inform. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 07:59:20 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Queen Rearing Discussion - ABF In Colorado Springs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I signed off with: >> no matter what is written, no matter how carefully, somebody's >> going to challenge it. And Trevoro Weatherhead responded: > Well, Aaron, I won't let you down. > ... My aim is less than 24 hours old. How do I do this? By putting > in combs and taking them out after 4 days.... Yes I touched on this in "confining the queen" although I didn't cover all the bases by mentioning empty frames. Hard to cover all the bases in 100 lines or less. > There is work by Prof. Woyke from Poland that shows as the age of the > larve increases, when you are rearing queens, the number of ovarioles > decreases. This then in turn means that the queen will not be able to > lay the same number eggs in a day. This then means less bees and > therefore less honey gathered. This is also covered somewhere in the second chapter (I believe, but if it's wrong I'm sure someone will point that out) of Laidlaw's _Contemporary_Queen_Rearing_. But the claim of more ovarioles assuring superior queens was left in doubt. Trevor wrote: > Of course, there are many other factors that will affect the quality > of the queen produced but I can start by selecting the youngest larvae > possible and therefore getting more ovarioles per queen. I wrote: > It is also noteworthy that the sooner a queen rearing beekeeper can > change the destiny of the developing larva the more likely they are > to have better results. You say poTAto and I say poTATo.... > By the way, was there ever a proceedings or papers published from the > ABF seminar? Without fear of reprisal I can say surf to: http://www.airoot.com/beeculture/98mar/98mar4.html Aaron Morris - thinking I'd better check and double check that URL! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 08:18:56 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: RCLynn Subject: Re: queen rearing discussion group? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-03-25 21:56:55 EST, you write: << When placed in a deep box the bees just extend it below the bottom board. Of course you don't try this with a cup full of bees. >> What a novel idea, I think it would work fine. One question though. Don't the bees attach that drone comb to the sidewalls of the hive? Randy Lynn, NC, USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 08:28:42 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: RCLynn Subject: Re: Queen Rearing Discussion, Laidlaw's New Book Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-03-26 08:01:41 EST, you write: << his is also covered somewhere in the second chapter (I believe, but if it's wrong I'm sure someone will point that out) of Laidlaw's _Contemporary_Queen_Rearing_. But the claim of more ovarioles assuring superior queens was left in doubt. >> I notice in the current queen rearing discussion, that everyone keeps refering to Laidlaw's Contemporary Queen Rearing. I believe that book is about twenty years old. I just bought a copy of his new book. I provides much more information about the new research on the science of queen rearing and also addresses new issues like selecting for mite resistance. I think that everyone who intends to drag unsuspecting larvae out of their cells to make them into queens should give Laidlaw's new book a serious read. IMHO Randy Lynn, NC, USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 08:03:07 +0100 Reply-To: Barry@Birkey.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Organization: BIRKEY.COM Subject: Re: Bees in Wall MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Paul Cronshaw, D.C. wrote: > BTW. Many cities will require a contractor's license to remove the wall > > I never could figure this one out. You need a license to do anything if you live on the right or left coast. Must be something in the water that all those officials drink that messes up their mind. One isn't capable of competent work I guess unless one pays their $50 and has a license. -Barry -- Barry Birkey West Chicago, Illinois USA Barry@Birkey.com http://www.birkey.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 09:05:07 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Laidlaw's New Book MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Randy Lynn, NC, USA wrote: > I notice in the current queen rearing discussion, that everyone keeps > refering to Laidlaw's Contemporary Queen Rearing. I believe that book > is about twenty years old. I just bought a copy of his new book. I wrote yesterday: > I recommend Laidlaw's _Contemporary_Queen_Rearing_ - latest edition > just released, available from Wicwas Press. E-mail Larry Connor > at LJConnor@aol.com Has the title changed? Aaron Morris - wondering why I bother... ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 14:18:05 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Christian Beekeeper List Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Please Ladies and Gentlemen This is a Bee List - let us stay with bees - do not waste time (IMHO) on irrelevancies such as I read recently - maybe a bit funny - but way off topic. This list is much too valuable, to me at any rate, for this type of trivialisation. Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland e mail cssl@iol.ie Tel + 353 1 289 5269 Fax + 353 1 289 9940 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 09:18:32 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pollinator Subject: Re: Clover honey Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-03-25 22:03:24 EST, kmurray@mira.net (Kevin Murray) writes: << One of the best and most difficult to obtain honey in Australia is a Victorian clover honey. I first tasted this light honey two years ago and was impressed by its delicate perfume that lingers on the tongue. I've been trying to find it again since, but without success. I noted during a recent visit to the US that the most common honey on the shelves was called 'clover'. I wonder if this marks a difference in the way bees are distributed, or simply a difference of naming convention between the two counties. >> Our supermarket "clover" around here is generic. All of the light honeys, mostly from the midwest, are termed clover for the sake of this large market. Clover makes up a good portion of this, of course, as it is a common flower. But I find the taste of the mix quite bland. A true, relatively pure clover has a delightful delicate tanginess that is hard to describe. The best way to get this, is directly from a beekeeper in the clover areas who promptly removes the supers before later honeys spoil the taste. Purple loosestrife is one of these "taste spoilers," a plant which has invaded northeastern USA, and blooms in August. It is a heavy yielder, so beekeepers like it, but it is strictly bakery grade. To locate a good clover area, look for soils that are derived directly from limestone bedrock, or areas where farmers lime the soil for agricultural production. Clover will not yield well on soils that are not sweet. Nor will it stand the heat of the deep south. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 10:15:24 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: WUhlman Subject: Re: Christian Beekeeper List Comments: To: cssl@iol.ie Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Let's all keep our sense of humor. One of the best qualities that I've observed possessed by most beekeepers is a marvelous sense of humor. Keep it up! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 11:47:44 -0400 Reply-To: eunice.wonnacott@pei.sympatico.ca Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Eunice Wonnacott Subject: Re: Christian Beekeeper List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Computer Software Solutions Ltd wrote: > > Please Ladies and Gentlemen > > This is a Bee List - let us stay with bees - do not waste time (IMHO) on > irrelevancies such as I read recently - maybe a bit funny - but way off topic. > > This list is much too valuable, to me at any rate, for this type of > trivialisation. > > Sincerely > Tom Barrett > 49 South Park > Foxrock > Dublin 18 > Ireland > > e mail cssl@iol.ie > Tel + 353 1 289 5269 > Fax + 353 1 289 9940 Tom: I agree that this is a list for bee related topics, and that we should keep to the topic. I hope there is not too much "flaming" over the suggestion that the original writers's religious inclinations are trivial. I'm sure that is not what you meant. That's what the delete button is for, after all. EDW ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 16:33:41 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ivan McGill Subject: queen rearing - grafting Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The has been discussion on age of larvae. Do you put the frame in a confined area with the queen? Now how do you graft what tools, where, light, magnification (for us with poorer eye sight) if needed, your tools that you have developed for grafting. Ivan McGill Prince George, B.C. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 11:56:35 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK Subject: Re: Laidlaw's New Book Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Aaron: The title of the new Laidlaw book is: QUEEN REARING AND BEE BREEDING It is 200+ great pages, and a great bibliography. George ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 11:57:21 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pollinator Subject: Re: Christian Beekeeper List Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-03-26 09:34:28 EST, cssl@iol.ie (Computer Software Solutions Ltd) writes: << This is a Bee List - let us stay with bees - do not waste time (IMHO) on irrelevancies such as I read recently - maybe a bit funny - but way off topic. This list is much too valuable, to me at any rate, for this type of trivialisation. >> Agreed. The original post asked folks to respond privately by e-mail, which would take care of the problem you mention. The original post, I felt, was on-topic, and gives another option for those interested in both bees and Christianity. I am wondering if the original post will make it to "Best of Bee?" Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 13:16:05 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Malibu Skipper Organization: University at Albany Computing and Network Services Subject: Loves Bees, hates wasps!!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi! Remember me? I'm baaaaaaaaaaaaacccccckkkkkkkkkkkkk! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 13:24:18 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Malibu Skipper Organization: University at Albany Computing and Network Services Subject: Grumpy? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Do you guys get grumpy when the beeses sting you? Malibu Skipper ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 15:50:26 +0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Carlos Aparicio Subject: Re: Christian Beekeeper List Comments: To: eunice.wonnacott@pei.sympatico.ca Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi everybody: I read this thread with attention, and I found it very interesting. I found in it religion, a respectful sense of humour and some serious comitment to work. One of my favourites books is Moby Dick by Melville. In this work, you can find all this kind of subjects. If one of them missed, it wouldn't be the marvelous literary work it was. CARLOS APARICIO ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 14:05:29 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Beedaz Subject: Re: Buddist Bee List Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Is anyone interested in starting a Buddist Bee List? It would be good Karma to get involved in a such a group and garner heavenly nectar. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 13:19:08 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Elroy Rogers Subject: Apistan resistant mites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all bee lovers, I was reading an article in March issue of bee culture ( inner cover) by Kim Flottum where he mentions about the state of Florida not allowing bees in the state if you have more than two mites per ether roll per colony. See below. Bee culture: There=92s more. The Florida people have made a pretty good case for the ether roll test and colony crashes. Cutts said that when testing colonies for certification, colonies are required to have two or fewer mites in an ether roll test. More, and treatment is required or the colony dies. Pure and simple. Moreover, a colony needs to be certified as =91treated=92 if it i= s to get back into Florida later in the season. There=92s not a quarantine as such, but treat, or don=92t get back in. And, your colonies die. I don't want too sound like a smart allic but when my bees where tested by the state of Minnesota before transporting to California they found only 1 mite from a sample of aproximately 300 bees taken from 10 colonies. The real kicker here is that I last treated with mineral oil in the first week of sept. the test was done in the last week of oct., in other words 1 1/2 months untreated before the test was done. There could have been drifting from other neighboring colonies this late in the fall, I believe my colonies were mite free in august when I was treating every week. This was my first year back as a beekeeper in a long time these bees were purchased from a commercial beekeeper here in Minnesota his first name is Chuck. Well I told Chuck what I was doing, treating all summer for mites with mineral oil. I told him that my bees looked better and better each week and the colonies where getting stronger, he wanted proof he kept saying how do you know for sure. Well I didn't really know for sure all summer but I knew what healthy colonies looked like in the 70's when there were no mites to fight with. Any way I tried to talk Chuck into trying mineral oil for quite awhile but he wanted no part of anything that there was no proof that it worked. Now here is the best part of all this because I know everyone is thinking I never had mites to begin with, these bees came from Chuck they where actually his bees just transffered ownership. Well His bees tested at the same time after having Apistan in for 1 1/2 months tested 10 mites with the same amount of bees. The only difference here is that the sample from his lot was taken from more colonies. Well it seems I could take my bees to Florida and Chucks would be banned from going. Any way chuck called me on the phone when he got the results in the mail and asked exactly what I was doing and the recipe, by the way it only takes me 20 seconds to treat a colony for mites per week. The hardest part is driving to each apiary. Also someone said that some apiarys just don't have a problem with mites, but don't forget these where Chucks bees in the spring and I had my thirty colonies in 6 different locations. I am sorry to report also Chuck lost almost a third of his bees in california due to mites, and I lost the 10 nucs that I started in august I think they died in minnesota. They where not shipped until the end of november, the nucs just where not strong enough to take the below zero days we had in minnesota. I am happy to report Chuck has purchased a large sprayer like mine to treat mites with this year, he starts with 550 colonies every spring I figure he should be able to save at least $4000 this year on the cost of apistan alone. I wonder if he will buy me that fancy pickup after 6 years, Naw. If someone wants to see the results of the ether roll tests that where done by the state of Minnesota I can ask Chuck if he would release them. After all it was done under his name, I really didn't want to mention this until I got his permision first. Maybe when he sees this post I'll get an ear full Is this a scientific test? I think not, but it should make every one on this list take a real hard look at mineral oil, or if they just want to donate some more money to the chemical people. Also I been able to purchase alot of bee equipment for 10 cents on the dollar because of the mites, it is to my disadvantage to share this with any body, I like buying 15,000 20,000 dollar operations out for $1000. So if you continue to use apistan and are having heavy losses and want out remmember me. Elroy ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 20:30:43 +0200 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jan Tempelman Organization: Home Subject: Drory Hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 V2l0aG91dCB0aGUgY29tcGxldGUgdGV4dA0KdGhlIGhpdmUgaXMgYWxtb3N0IHJlYWR5Li4u Li4uOg0KaHR0cDovL3d3dy54czRhbGwubmwvfmp0ZW1wL0Ryb3J5SGl2ZS5odG1sDQpncmVl dGluZywgamFuDQqwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCw sLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLANCkphbiBUZW1wZWxtYW4gLyBJbmVrZSBEcmFiYmUgICAgIHwgICAg IG1haWx0bzpqdGVtcEB4czRhbGwubmwNClN0ZXJyZW1vcyAxNiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDMw NjkgQVMgUm90dGVyZGFtLCBUaGUgTmV0aGVybGFuZHMNClRlbC9GYXggKFNPTUVUSU1FUykg WFggMzEgKDApMTAtNDU2OTQxMg0KaHR0cDovL3d3dy54czRhbGwubmwvfmp0ZW1wL2luZGV4 My5odG1sDQqwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCw sLCwsLCwsLCwsLANCg0K ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 20:20:39 +0200 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jan Tempelman Organization: Home Subject: dreaming about Weighing Hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SSBoYWQgYSB0ZWFjaGVyIG1lZXRpbmcuLi4uLi47LSgNCg0KZHJlYW1pbmcgYWJvdXQgV2Vp Z2hpbmcgSGl2ZXMNCg0KaHR0cDovL3d3dy54czRhbGwubmwvfmp0ZW1wL1dlaWdoaW5nSGl2 ZS5odG1sDQqwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCw sLCwsLCwsLCwsLANCkphbiBUZW1wZWxtYW4gLyBJbmVrZSBEcmFiYmUgICAgIHwgICAgIG1h aWx0bzpqdGVtcEB4czRhbGwubmwNClN0ZXJyZW1vcyAxNiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDMwNjkg QVMgUm90dGVyZGFtLCBUaGUgTmV0aGVybGFuZHMNClRlbC9GYXggKFNPTUVUSU1FUykgWFgg MzEgKDApMTAtNDU2OTQxMg0KaHR0cDovL3d3dy54czRhbGwubmwvfmp0ZW1wL2luZGV4My5o dG1sDQqwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCw sLCwsLCwsLANCg0KDQo= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 17:44:39 -0500 Reply-To: gmaloney@gis.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: gmaloney Subject: Apistan Resistant Mites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Regarding Elroy Rogers letter regarding the use of mineral oil. Elroy if you have time could you post the procedure that you use when applying mineral oil. Thank you. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 18:50:49 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Steve Newcomb Subject: Re: Christian Beekeeper List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Good one, Jeff!! ---------- > From: Jeffrey R. Hills > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Re: Christian Beekeeper List > Date: Wednesday, March 25, 1998 8:15 AM > > I have noticed that my bees are noticeably less active on Sunday mornings and > gather together in groups in various spots around their hives. Could this be > in observance of a religious ceremony? > > > Patrick & Mary Caldwell wrote: > > > Hello John... > > > > Please add me to the Christian beekeeper list. > > > > Thanks! > > > > Mary Caldwell > > mpcenterprises@mci2000.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John M Thorp > > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > > Date: Tuesday, March 24, 1998 8:38 PM > > Subject: Christian Beekeeper List > > > > This letter hope fully will not upset any individual or group.Some time > > back I was approached by someone on the list concerning the start of a > > christian beekeeper list. Having no idea what could come of it the only > > idea that comes to mind is this. Would all of you saints of the most high > > God send me a private e/mail. After that we can go with how the Lord > > leads. Any ideas would be appreciated and shared with all who write. > > Take Care and GBY-John in Homestead- - Jesus Christ Is The Only > > Answer,Joshua24:15 > > > > _____________________________________________________________________ > > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 18:58:18 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Jeffrey R. Hills" Subject: Re: Grumpy? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You bet I do. JRH Malibu Skipper wrote: > Do you guys get grumpy when the beeses sting you? > > Malibu Skipper ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 00:23:20 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ivan McGill Subject: Re: Apistan resistant mites Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Elroy wrote: >Well it seems I could take my bees to Florida and Chucks would be banned >from going. Any way chuck called me on the phone when he got the >results in the mail and asked exactly what I was doing and the recipe, >by the way it only takes me 20 seconds to treat a colony for mites per >week. What recipe did you use? And what kind of sprayer? If you don't want to post it, send to me directly. >I am happy to report Chuck has purchased a large sprayer like mine to >treat mites with this year. Ivan Prince George, B.C. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 23:39:43 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Martin Braunstein Subject: Re: Christian Beekeeper List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi John, What do you think about starting a Muslim Beekeeper List, a Buddhist Beekeeper List, a Protestant Beekeeper List and a Jewish Beekeeping List? I think it sounds silly, doesn't it? Why don't we just stick to this universal list and learn from each others experiences and knowledge regardless of its religion and beliefs. Regards. Martin Braunstein Malka Cabania Apicola e-mail: malka@webnet.com.ar ---------- > From: John M Thorp > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Christian Beekeeper List > Date: martes 24 de marzo de 1998 22:33 > > This letter hope fully will not upset any individual or group.Some time > back I was approached by someone on the list concerning the start of a > christian beekeeper list. Having no idea what could come of it the only > idea that comes to mind is this. Would all of you saints of the most high > God send me a private e/mail. After that we can go with how the Lord > leads. Any ideas would be appreciated and shared with all who write. > Take Care and GBY-John in Homestead- - Jesus Christ Is The Only > Answer,Joshua24:15 > > _____________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 19:33:11 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Elroy Rogers Subject: FGMO treatment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi fellow Beekeepers, As requested I am sending this email I wrote to a beekeeper asking how I treated for V-mites, below is the 20 second treatment. As mentioned in an earlier post this process did stand up to comparison test with Apistan. I broke the top of the sprayer I used last year, but it was a gallon sprayer that you can purchase at any garden shop for around $20. I since bought a new one at Walmart (I hate to send any body to that over sized flee market) for $7, it is a 2.5 pint sprayer with a pump on top for pumping pressure into it. Basically one of those 1 pint finger trigger pump bottles will work also and only cost $1. But if you got a lot of colonies as I do you can not waste any time. All I did was use 3 cups water to 3cups sugar, you can put the dry sugar right in the sprayer for mixing if you want, and add 4 oz of mineral oil. That is it sounds to simple doesn't it. The trick though is to shake the mixture very hard for at least 2 minutes, you need the mineral oil to get suspended with the sugar water. I shake it for a few seconds after a couple of treatments. You can not spray mineral oil out of a spray bottle in a mist you must dilute it down, and it won't mix with straight water I even tried in a blender for 5 minutes. All you have to do is walk up to the front of the colony once a week, best in the morning just as the scout bees are out, spray the front of the colony and floor and watch what happens. The bees are all just chomping at the bit to get foraging, they crawl out and eat all this syrup in a few minutes. Now that doesn't sound like it would even work, but as Dr Pedro has said only a trace has to come in contact with the mites to kill them. Since you had suspended the oil into the sugar water before spraying that is all it takes. Now remmember these bees have probably spent a lot of time curing yesturdays nectar flow, and I'll bet the first food supply to enter the colony each day gets consumed by the larvae. Well guess who could very well be having a good time sucking the life out of those larvae, there is no safe place for those mites once you get oil into the food chain. I know some people are not sure if the mineral oil could damage the wax later or get into the honey. If you think of the very small amount that gets into the colony and only once a week, I don't think they could find a trace of it. Please don't take this as the gospel truth, treat your colonies with apistan this spring, then do an ether roll see how many mites are left. Then buy the the $1 spray bottle and try it on 1 colony for a month then do another ether roll, if you try it and see the results you will never treat with apistan again. This will seem like it is not working for the first two weeks, but don't stop must follow through. Treat once a week for at least 1 month before results can be seen. If you want to see real fast results then tear the colony down spraying all combs and bees with the mixture, I think it should be warm though, the bees will clean them selves free of mite immedately because you just sprayed sugar water with oil on them. This kills all mites on contact, because they breathe through their outer layer. This plugs up the pores and suffacates the poor things. Until you get the hang of doing this I would not do the later, too much mineral oil on you bees will kill them. I would hate to see that happen and you report on the list that this treatment just wiped out a colony. Well thats it have fun Elroy P. s. I didn't mention when you get the mixture shaken enough it will turn cloudy, and it will separate in minutes after shaking. So you must keep shaking other wise mineral oil will be at the top and come out last and kill some bees when your spray bottle starts to empty out. Put some mineral oil on a couple of bees so you can see what they look like when this happens, they look wet and dance around alot. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 23:29:24 -0600 Reply-To: schulze@feist.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: schulze Subject: Canola oil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sam writes; Some time back someone mentioned using a paper napkin soaked in canola oil. Would some one mind reposting this? I visited a commercial bee yard today and they were feeding sugar mixed with canola oil for mites. I mentioned to him about the napkin. Thanks, Sam ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 02:34:09 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Brian Gant Subject: weighing hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I have wanted for years to get round to making an electronic hive scale, glad to hear someone else is doing it. Here are some ideas: size at least 45 cm square for UK hives to sit on comfortably reading from about 20kg upto 60kg would suit my needs here able to be read to 0.5 kg would be enough battery operated for use in the field, and long battery life A real luxury would be to have a floppy disc drive fitted with appropriat= e electronics so the weight would be recorded at pre-set intervals and I could take the disc and slip it into the PC to see the results. Could it be made quite slim so that it could be slipped under a hive just= for long enough to take a reading? So records could be kept of several hives. it would need to be weatherproof. And very cheap of course! Bee Biz for february mentions something similar shown at Apimondia, complete with modem, price not mentioned. Brian Gant Buckfast, UK ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 14:46:17 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Nasr Basuny Subject: Re: Christian Beekeeper List In-Reply-To: <199803270123.WAA00929@ns1.sminter.com.ar> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At 11:39 =E3 25/03/98 -0600, you wrote: >Hi John, > >What do you think about starting a Muslim Beekeeper List, a Buddhist Beekeeper List, a >Protestant Beekeeper List and a Jewish Beekeeping List? > >I think it sounds silly, doesn't it? Why don't we just stick to this universal list and >learn from each others experiences and knowledge regardless of its religion and >beliefs. > >Regards. > >Martin Braunstein Thanks Martin Nasr Basuny Egypt =20 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 11:26:46 +0100 Reply-To: drs@kulmbach.baynet.de Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Dr. Reimund Schuberth" Subject: Re: queen rearing - grafting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Ivan, I personally look for young larvas on brood combs and take the youngest (unfortunately worst to detect) larvas. I don't put a frame into the hive or cage the queen on such a comb. This would mean too much work for me. > The has been discussion on age of larvae. > > Do you put the frame in a confined area with the queen? > If you want the queen to lay immediately into the cells of your comb you have to put it into the center of the brood nest. > Now how do you graft what tools, where, light, magnification (for us with > poorer eye sight) if needed, your tools that you have developed for > grafting. I take a common commercial grafting tool (a kind of bended needle with a flat end). I know some beekeepers that make it by themselves. There is also an asian product available which can be used in different directions and a kind of flexible tongue to take up the larvas. I have never tried it because I cope with my equipment good enough. When you want to graft larvas you have to find a place with good light (I prefer daylight under a tree). Perhaps with bad eye-sight you need magnification glasses as they are used by precision engineers. It's best not in direct sunlight, because this might dry out the larvas and demage them. You must hold the comb with the larvas in a certain direction so you can see the larvas quite good. Some beekeepers with less experience have some problems and for those the following can be a little tip: Cut a piece of comb out of the whole frame and shorten the cells with a sharp knife. So you get less shadows. You can reach the larvas easier and graft them more comfortable. Bye for now, sincerely Reimund ___________________________ Beekeeper in Germany (Bavaria) Queen Rearing of Carniolan Bees Insemination Station ___________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 08:42:50 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David W Oakes Subject: Checked Hives Yesterday MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Just thought I'd pass along the result of my hive inspection yesterday. It was a 76 degree day here in central Indiana and I placed on the hives (5) sugar water with medication. The bees have wintered well and seems to have build up good this spring thus far. I did do something that I will not do again; I left a super of honey on each the hive because I thought that they needed the extra over the winter. They did not, though some of it has been eaten, most have 10-30 lb. of capped honey. In some of the honey supers the Queen has laid eggs and of course the bees refuse to leave. This has left me with the choice of removing them any way or putting them back on. This happened in 2 out of 5, not bad I guess but I will not do that again as I now have supers of brood that I do not want. I hope take El Nino has been as good to your hives. ( I have read that El Nino has brought devastation to some) Take care and GBYA Thanks to all on this list for all the good information you have provided to me this past season. Dave in Indiana ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 06:22:37 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." Subject: "Beekeeping can Ease Life's Worries" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" A nice article on beekeeping http://detnews.com:80/1998/wayne/9803/25/03250119.htm For those who attend, I would love to hear feedback on the program. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 16:55:23 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Nasr Basuny Subject: Re: Christian Beekeeper List In-Reply-To: <21706ce3.351a88f3@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi All I suggest rename Bee-l to : * Bee-C ---------> Christian Beekeeper * Bee-M ---------> Muslim Beekeeper * Bee-J ---------> Jewish Beekeeper * Bee-D ---------> Beekeepers like me who will cooperate even with the (Devil) to get knowledge. Or: * Bee-W ---------> for White Beekeeper * Bee-B ---------> for Black Beekeeper Or. Or .Or ............. Some time I look very selly am I ?????!!!!!!!! Nasr Basuny Egypt ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 08:30:01 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rett Thorpe MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Nasar, We get the point. You don't like the idea of a Christian beekeeping list. Give it a rest..Please. No one asked you to participate, and if people want to start a new list what business is it of yours. The original post asked for people to respond privately, please do so. I apologize for posting to the list, but if it will help this die I'm willing to take the risk. Rett Thorpe ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 10:55:44 -0500 Reply-To: morty@dynanet.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mortimer B Lipton Subject: Re: Apistan resistant mites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Found your last beemail quite interesting. Could you email me a description of the method you use to treat your colonies with mineral oil. Thanks Much Morty Lipton Bucks County, PA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 11:06:05 -0500 Reply-To: morty@dynanet.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mortimer B Lipton Subject: Re: FGMO treatment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry please ignore my last email re fgmo . I had'nt read the rest of my bemail. I am going to distribute Elroy's procedure to my local beekeeper friends. Thany you Elroy. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 11:11:28 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: LJConnor Subject: Laidlaw Books Comments: cc: AAPA-L@unlvm.unl.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit To clear confusion, here is the queen-rearing book publishing history of Harry Laidlaw Jr. : 1. Queen Rearing by Harry H. Laidlaw Jr and J. E. Eckert. 1962. Published by the University of California Press. Out of print. 2. Contemporary Queen Rearing by Harry H. Laidlaw Jr. 1979. Published by Dadant & Sons. Still available in softcover edition. 3. Queen Rearing and Bee Breeding by Harry H. Laidlaw Jr and Robert Page Jr. 1997. Published by Wicwas Press LLC, PO Box 817, Cheshire CT 06410. Large format softcover at $25.00. This is a complete rewrite and update and a summary of Laidlaw's long research and Page's understandable approach to bee genetics. Larry Connor Wicwas Press PO Box 817 Cheshire CT 06410 Phone/Fax 203 250 7575 ljconnor@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 13:18:51 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Graham Subject: Cycling, Left Handed, Colour Blind, Flat Earth Beekeepers List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Could we get back to bees and beekeeping? I am fed up downloading irrelevant material from this list. Whilest I am at it what is the point of posting this: SSBoYWQgYSB0ZWFjaGVyIG1lZXRpbmcuLi4uLi47LSg NCg0KZHJlYW1pbmcgYWJvdXQgV2Vp Z2hpbmcgSGl2ZXMNCg0KaHR0cDovL3d3dy54czRhbGw ubmwvfmp0ZW1wL1dlaWdoaW5nSGl2 ZS5odG1sDQqwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLC wsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCw sLCwsLCwsLCwsLANCkphbiBUZW1wZWxtYW4gLyBJbmV rZSBEcmFiYmUgICAgIHwgICAgIG1h aWx0bzpqdGVtcEB4czRhbGwubmwNClN0ZXJyZW1vcyA xNiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDMwNjkg QVMgUm90dGVyZGFtLCBUaGUgTmV0aGVybGFuZHMNClR lbC9GYXggKFNPTUVUSU1FUykgWFgg MzEgKDApMTAtNDU2OTQxMg0KaHR0cDovL3d3dy54czR hbGwubmwvfmp0ZW1wL2luZGV4My5o dG1sDQqwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLC wsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCw sLCwsLCwsLANCg0KDQo= I do not have the time to decode this garbage. Does anyone else? !N3 -- ------------------------- Posted on 03/27/98 at 18:13 GMT. From Strathclyde in Scotland. ------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 14:10:49 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: The Bee Works Subject: Re: Apistan questions In-Reply-To: <003b01bd576b$e142a3c0$3532e8d0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 24 Mar 98 at 16:29, Midnitebee wrote: > really..so, you beleive having a LARGE (?)population of bees(going > into the winter months) will keep the hive warmer ? I run a deep > brood chamber(during the winter) and place a honey super above the > brood chamber and during the "flow", I use mediums(above the deep). > Winds,temps,etc..I realize play a part in the winter condition..but, > on the other side of the coin..does it not depend on your > windbreak,condition of your bees,wrapping of your hives and the > race/strain of bee? I have been away at our annual Queen breeding convention, on getting back I can only say 'Goodness, haven't you all been busy'..... ;-)) 'The best packing for bees, is, more bees!' That was taught to me a long time ago, and still holds true. Out of interest I set a yard at the top of a hill, no wind break, and every year the yard flourishes. I still maintain that air drainage and well ventilated hives, and lots of bees have the best position to manage the winter. ******************************************* The Bee Works,9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia,Ontario. L3V 6H1. Canada. Phone/Fax 705-326-7171 http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks Quality Bee Breeders. e-mail ***************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 14:10:49 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: The Bee Works Subject: Re: Good Queens In-Reply-To: <"NPlex-HUB-980224163819(17105)*/S=BOGANSRJ/PRMD=apci/ADMD=attmail/C=us/"@MHS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 24 Mar 98 at 16:32, Ron Bogansky wrote: > I agree with David and will be using his suggestion and queens to > start nucs for next year. But for this spring purchasing queens for > early splits may be a problem. I posted last fall about a study > done by Penn State showing that a large number of commercial queens > are to put it bluntly, "poor". > past but last year I noticed some did not perform well and were > prematurely superseded. I have just attended our annual Bee Breeding Conference and the question of 'poor' queens came under intense scrutiny and some scary information came to light. It seems that in some cases drones do not make it to sexual maturity, in some cases as much as 100% failure. This matter is the subject of a paper, not published yet, so full details are sketchy. But it would appear that fluvalinate is responsible. On the surface it might not appear to be of major conceren. If you stop and think for a moment, no drones, no mating, no mating poor performance. On final point. It seems that some breeders down South have in the past relied on local feral drones to build up the drone pool. No feral colonys, then a smaller drone pool than required, leading to lack of sufficient mating quantities. Sound familiar? ******************************************* The Bee Works,9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia,Ontario. L3V 6H1. Canada. Phone/Fax 705-326-7171 http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks Quality Bee Breeders. e-mail ***************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 15:59:11 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Re: Christian Beekeeper List Although I was determined to not get involved in this, Nasr makes the point so well I hope all are paying attention! Enough all ready!!! -----Original Message----- From: Nasr Basuny To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Date: Friday, March 27, 1998 10:00 AM Subject: Re: Christian Beekeeper List >Hi All > I suggest rename Bee-l to : > * Bee-C ---------> Christian Beekeeper > * Bee-M ---------> Muslim Beekeeper > * Bee-J ---------> Jewish Beekeeper > * Bee-D ---------> Beekeepers like me > who will cooperate even with the (Devil) to get knowledge. >Or: > * Bee-W ---------> for White Beekeeper > * Bee-B ---------> for Black Beekeeper > Or. Or .Or ............. > Some time I look very selly am I ?????!!!!!!!! > > Nasr Basuny > Egypt ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 22:36:58 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Glyn Davies Subject: Honey bees v Wild Bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear Bee-L Members, Does anyone know of the work of Graham Pyke in Australia and David Roubik & William Schaeffer in North America which raises concerns about the impact of honey bees on native wild bees? English Nature, the UK Conservation Agency, takes the view that:- "There is little evidence to demonstrate a significant role for honeybees as pollinators of our native wild plants..... Honey bees utilise the most abundant and productive flowers to which they can gain access and are very successful at gathering pollen. That is not the same as pollination. Our native bees are not nearly so efficient at pollen gathering and it is this very inefficiency which facilitates pollination. When the major pollen source is exhausted, honeybees actively seek an alternative in a similarly ruthlessly efficient manner with which our native species cannot successfully compete" Quoted from recent correspondence with English Nature. I am sure that most beekeepers are sensitive to the welfare of native wild bees and if we are to accept this point of view, does it mean that we should be aware of the most sensitive areas and make sure through our beekeeping associations that we avoid high concentrations of honeybee colonies in those places. If anyone can source for me the published work of the scientists mentioned above I would be grateful. I would also be interested in hearing about relevant experience or observations that Bee Liners may have to report. Regards, Glyn Davies, Ashburton, Devon. UK ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 15:38:12 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Elroy Rogers Subject: Re: FGMO treatment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, In regards to the FGMO teatment that I used last year I had several questions emailed to me and on the list. 1. Would spraying the front of the hive encourage robbing? I would have to say yes, I had used this system only last year and there was a excelent flow on most of the time. I had not thought of the robbing part, I know I did have a problem with two of my colonies close to my house after I pulled honey supers off. They were starving and needed feeding immediately, this area did have 25 other colonies in the area. I am sure this is what happened to these colonies they just were over run by robber bees, because as soon as I moved them they were just fine. 2. Does cold weather affect treatment? Yes, this will not work in temperatures under 60 degrees, bees must be very active. This should be done once a week so you should have at least 1 nice day each week. 3. another problem is mineral oil suspending long enough. After you spray the front of the colony, you may see some puddles form, you can actually see the mineral oil separate after a minute or so. the warmer it is the faster the bees take it in. There is a specialty mineral oil that will suspend for a longer time called FMO 85 it is sold by a company called lab tech in Minneapolis MN. This stuff is not very cheap as far as mineral oil cost $14.85 per gal must buy 4 gallons, so it is out of reach of the hobby beekeeper. I would estimate that someone with a 100 colonies would use 1 1/2 gallons in 1 summer. I don't have the number for lab tech right now but if any one wants it I can post it monday. From what I got from them when I talk to them on the phone is that they are a specialty company. If beekeepers develop a special need for mineral oil to be suspended in sugar water they are the people to get involved. An alturnative to spraying the front of the colony is what I had done in cooler temps is to open the colony and quickly spray the top bars and inside cover, this works very good, bees don't like the mess and will clean it up really fast. As I see it beekeepers have put up with the plague of the v-mites and the chemical companies too long, this is a chance to rid yourselves of both. Lastly I think Dr. Rodriguez is experimenting with this system , I think he is working on a fool proof method for this to work. This system is not perfect needs lots of refining but it is a start. Elroy ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 16:08:01 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Thomas D. Harker" Subject: Re: FGMO treatment In-Reply-To: <351C1C40.C9578F23@starpoint.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 03:38 PM 3/27/98 -0600, you wrote: >Hi All, > In regards to the FGMO teatment that I used last year I had several >questions emailed to me and on the list. > >1. Would spraying the front of the hive encourage robbing? >I would have to say yes, I had used this system only last year and there was >a excelent flow on most of the time. I had not thought of the robbing part, >I know I did have a problem with two of my colonies close to my house after >I pulled honey supers off. They were starving and needed feeding >immediately, this area did have 25 other colonies in the area. I am sure >this is what happened to these colonies they just were over run by robber >bees, because as soon as I moved them they were just fine. > Elroy, I applaud your experimentation but I am concerned about your timing. I would like to hear from others on this. It appears that you are treating your hives during honey flow which could lead to FGMO in the honey. I am treating in early Spring during brood buildup and in early Fall after the honey is pulled in order to minimize contamination of "my" honey. Tom - novice with 2 hives in Rockford, IL. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 17:16:14 +0100 Reply-To: Barry@Birkey.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Organization: BIRKEY.COM Subject: Re: FGMO treatment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thomas D. Harker wrote: > Elroy, > > I applaud your experimentation but I am concerned about your timing. I > would like to hear from others on this. It appears that you are treating > your hives during honey flow which could lead to FGMO in the honey. I am > treating in early Spring during brood buildup and in early Fall after the > honey is pulled in order to minimize contamination of "my" honey. > > Tom - novice with 2 hives in Rockford, IL. This is a matter of concern to me also. My thought..... is FGMO mixed at these concentrations so weak that it must be applied every week throughout the spring, summer and fall to be effective? I would think one could apply the oil pre and post honey flow and still have it be effective on the mite? Would we not want to err on the conservative side and not apply unless it's really needed. Obviously we may not know the answers to this until more experimenting is done. -Barry -- Barry Birkey West Chicago, Illinois USA Barry@Birkey.com http://www.birkey.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 17:32:36 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: JAMES L KEHOE Subject: Starting Up Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To the List, I am wanting to start bee keeping this year. I have a small farm and have not seen a Honey bee in 2 years. I am wanting to start two hives. I'll need everything. Hives/bees/etc. Years ago , in the 50's, a friend and I had a bee hive for about 2 years. I've forgotten just about everything. Then you could order everything from Sears, including the bees. I live about 60mi. south of St. Louis, Missouri in Ste. Genevieve County. All help and information appreciated. Regards, James L. Kehoe D.O. (Larry) Ste. Genevieve, MO . ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 18:34:00 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK Subject: Re: "Beekeeping can Ease Life's Worries" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Paul: I read the Detroit News article, and it was great. All beekeepers would protect their own futures in keeping bees if they endorsed articles of this type. I hope you were responsible, and, if so, I salute you. Last year, after years of trying, I was able to get almost two full pages of commentary and pictures in the Washington Post, which is certainly not known for its interest in agriculture or the interests of a small group of people. Get copies of the Detroit News article, give it to other beekeepers, and encourage them to approach their home newspaper for local coverage. George Imirie ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 19:50:45 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Bartlett Subject: FGMO MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Last year I stated that I would be using FGMO and would come back later in the Spring with my results. First let me say that I understand that what I write here is by no means an endorsement or recommendation for use. As Andy N. puts it I am just a grunt beekeeper doing my things my way. After trying Strips, menthol, grease w/wo terramyacin, essential oils, and trying to do exactly as the directions stated, nothing so far had been really successful. Last Spring I used the Apistan strips and found that most mites (varroa) were gone. I got the strips on early when the cluster was small. Then I began reading the posts on FGMO by Dr. Rodriguez. I applied as per directions to the top bars in a small string. As most beekeepers know you just can't make it to all the out yards on a regular basis, so I will not try to attempt to tell the intervals that I was able get done. Once every two weeks is what I intended. Here in Southern Maryland, USA we had our first really warm day. 81F! I did a deep inspection of all frames in six hives here at my home. One hive is stronger than any hive I have ever had at this time of year. It is also the hive where I found the most varroa mites, but never did I see more then one on a drone larva. Four of the other hives are doing very good. How do I guage this? By the number of bees present and the amount of brood. The last time I used FGMO was in mid October last year, so the mites have had a chance for a foot hold again. I had 15 hives going into the winter. I have 14 looking good now, after losing hives every year for the past 7or 8 years. And I have my scientific guesses as to why I lost the one hive. Do I think we need more research? Yes. Do we need to know how FGMO may effect the bees, wax, and honey? Yes. Does it look like FGMO may have some promise? Yes. If it is works, it will last until something better comes along or some thing else happens with the mites. There is alot more that I could write in much greater detail, but to say what I have will stimulate some more " Let me try this". If there is enough anecdotal stories then that is fine. I have 26 years with the bees but have never been much more then a hobbiest, but does give me some credence. Your Grunt beekeeper billy bee ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 20:01:00 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Don Martin Subject: Re: Christian Beekeeper List John contact me at martindon@juno.com thanks Don _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 00:08:24 +0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Carlos Aparicio Subject: Re: FGMO treatment Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Some days ago I went to a drugstore to buy mineral oil. They said they didn't have the stuff, I insisted, and after talking with chemical manager they sold me a bottle of liquid vaseline. I this Mineral Oil, or wil it work like?? Any information will be wellcome. CARLOS APARICIO At 07:33 PM 26/03/1998 -0600, Elroy Rogers wrote: >Hi fellow Beekeepers, > As requested I am sending this email I wrote to a beekeeper asking >how I treated for V-mites, below is the 20 second treatment. As >mentioned in an earlier post this process did stand up to comparison >test with Apistan. >..... ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 00:08:56 +0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Carlos Aparicio Subject: varroa collapse Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The varroa may infect a colony during some time even years, until in a moment, may be in winter de colony collapses. Somebody knows what is the way the colony collapses? I suppose varroa has a great preference over drones' larvae, and they get infected reason why they are not born in normal conditions. If drones aren't normal, may be queens have problems for mating or get fertilized eggs. I would like to hear some explanations about the fact of collapse and its causes. Any comments will be appreciated. CARLOS APARICIO ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 00:57:43 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Teresa Garcma Subject: Re: varroa collapse MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Carlos, Some authors say the process goes like this in the tropics: When it=B4s nectar time and the colony has a "high" infestation rate, * The queen has almost no place to lay, because the bees are filling=20 cells with nectar * The varroas stay on the adult bees *When the honey is harvested and there=B4s anymore nectar, the queen=20 starts laying again=20 *All the varroa get into these new larvae (that are needed to replace=20 the now old adult bees) * The larvae are so heavily infested that it dies and there=B4s no=20 replacement of bees, so they die too *The colony dissappears. In temperate regions, maybe the reason why the colony cannot survive=20 winter is because the infested bees live less time than the healthy=20 bees. The drone larvae has a longer biological cycle (longer time capped=20 brood), so it allows the varroa to reproduce more efficiently, it also=20 seems to have a pheromone that attracts more varroas than worker larvae.=20 Tere ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 01:06:11 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Teresa Garcma Subject: Read you in June MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear bee liners, I must leave this wonderful group until june. It=B4s been phantastic=20 knowing you, people who share not only information, but also some=20 criticism, and good humor. Thank you. Keep well, Tere ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 01:10:13 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Teresa Garcma Subject: PD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I forgot to say that If any body wants to contact me, I=B4ll be in my e-mail: logar@acnet.net Tere ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 01:16:03 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Teresa Garcma Subject: Mexican schools for beekeepers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Paul, Please write directly to me, because I need more information to be able to help you. Tere logar@acnet.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 18:40:00 PST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Re: Queen rearing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To continue the drone theme on the queen rearing, I have dome some calcul= ations on when a drone would have to be laid to be able to mate with a = queen today, 28 March. The queen would have to be about 7 days old to mate. The drone would nee= d to be about 14 days old to be sexully mature. As one retired queen bre= eder in Australia told me you cannot send a boy out to do a mans job. = As it takes 24 days for a drone to hatch from an egg, it would have to = have been 38 days ago that the drone was laid i.e. 14 plus 24. So 38 days back from 28 March is about 18 February. So those talking of = mating queens now need to have drones laid around 18 February. Was that = possible? This a common fault of beekeepers who expect queen breeders to have queen= bees available like going to a supermarket and taking some off the shelf= . It takes a lot of planning to get drones the right age to mate with = queens. For beekeepers the first good weather comes and they start think= ing of queens and want them straight away. They forget that the queen = breeder has to have started at least 40 days before in getting drones rea= dy. In reality it is more like 50 days. That is nearly two months. Thin= k back two months and what were you doing then. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 02:28:28 PST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Yasin Yilmaz Subject: and Bees in TREES ??? Content-Type: text/plain Here in Turkey this summer i have seen 3 colonies in side tree trunks in the forest... I and my father managed to get one of the colony out and their honey... But it was a slaughter and we promised never to do it again, it also gave harm to the tree, we had to open a hole in the trunk... In fact we dont want the honey, but the bees :) Will the below method also work for bees in trees and are there a faster method to push the bees out of the tree !!! And do u know a method to search for wild colonies in forest? They say here that watching the direction of bees near water sources helps to find colonies ???? is it logical :) Yasin love the bees >>Glen, >>I have been taking bees out of walls for several years using the >>bait hive technique. >>Basically you need wire mesh which covers the opening and tapers to >>a thin point that accomodates an exiting bee. This is a one way >>street out of the wall. >>Place (on a ladder or supporting from overhang) a nuc ( 2-3 frames >>of bees and queen) near the wire exit , the closer the better. >>Over 4-6 weeks the wall bees will move in with the bait hive bees >>and the colony in the wall will die out. >>Paul Cronshaw DC >>Hobby beekeeper in Santa Barbara,CA ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 06:31:38 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Beekeeperc Subject: Re: PD Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Good Luck, Tere, see you back here in June. Norm ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 07:02:43 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Joel Govostes Subject: Re: and Bees in TREES ??? In-Reply-To: <19980328102829.1839.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The method described, using a wire-screen cone, will work on a bee tree. It does take a long time, however. Also, you have to make sure there are no other passages or entrances into the tree cavity. If it is an old tree or partly dead, the bees can often find another way out, or will excavate, making another entrance, and this will foil your attempt to transfer them to the nucleus. It is recommended that a comb of brood or two be included in the nucleus, to provide a colony for the trapped-out bees to enter. These bees will be mostly older bees (foragers), so you are mainly transferring old bees, at least initially, and you can't get ALL of the colony out of the tree. Given the time and effort, it might be questionable, whether this operation is worthwhile. After a few weeks there will not be much left of the colony inside the tree, and you can remove the nucleus, which will be strong and thriving. The original colony may build back up, then. I performed this transfer on a bee-tree located on a municipal golf course, and the owners were later disappointed to find the tree-colony bounced back strong as ever. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 18:02:07 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Dr. Gerald L Barbor" Subject: Re: Cycling, Left Handed, Colour Blind, Flat Earth Beekeepers List Although it may be intentional, I assumed the gibberish below forwarded as part of Mr. Graham's message was due to some sort of server incompatability. Didn't think that could happen until recently when I found that I could correspond with a friend in Africa through JUNO, but nothing comes through when using AOL. Nevertheless, I agree with his sentiment. On Fri, 27 Mar 1998 13:18:51 -0500 David Graham writes: >Could we get back to bees and beekeeping? I am fed up downloading >irrelevant material from this list. Whilest I am at it what is the >point of posting this: > >SSBoYWQgYSB0ZWFjaGVyIG1lZXRpbmcuLi4uLi47LSg >NCg0KZHJlYW1pbmcgYWJvdXQgV2Vp >Z2hpbmcgSGl2ZXMNCg0KaHR0cDovL3d3dy54czRhbGw >ubmwvfmp0ZW1wL1dlaWdoaW5nSGl2 >ZS5odG1sDQqwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLC >wsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCw >sLCwsLCwsLCwsLANCkphbiBUZW1wZWxtYW4gLyBJbmV >rZSBEcmFiYmUgICAgIHwgICAgIG1h >aWx0bzpqdGVtcEB4czRhbGwubmwNClN0ZXJyZW1vcyA >xNiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDMwNjkg >QVMgUm90dGVyZGFtLCBUaGUgTmV0aGVybGFuZHMNClR >lbC9GYXggKFNPTUVUSU1FUykgWFgg >MzEgKDApMTAtNDU2OTQxMg0KaHR0cDovL3d3dy54czR >hbGwubmwvfmp0ZW1wL2luZGV4My5o >dG1sDQqwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLC >wsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCw sLCwsLCwsLANCg0KDQo= > >I do not have the time to decode this garbage. Does anyone else? > >!N3 > >-- >------------------------- >Posted on 03/27/98 at 18:13 GMT. >>From Strathclyde in Scotland. >------------------------ > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 07:43:24 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." Subject: PR for Beekeeping Comments: cc: GImasterBK@aol.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" George, Thanks for this message. Yes Beekeepers need to watch how the media handles bees and beekeeping. Recently we had an article about the "pests" that have come out as a result of El Nino = Mosquitos, Rats and Insects. Unfortunately honey bees were mentioned and pictured in the article in a negative manner, in particular the AHB. (Warning.. they are coming to our area.!) I am going to send a reply to the writer along with a copy of this article. In addition, I recently was interviewed for an article on beekeeping by a local newspaper and will hopefully bring a more positive light to beekeeping in our area. Paul Cronshaw DC Hobby Beekeeper in Santa Barbara CA USA ******** Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 18:34:00 EST From: GImasterBK Subject: Re: "Beekeeping can Ease Life's Worries" Paul: I read the Detroit News article, and it was great. All beekeepers would protect their own futures in keeping bees if they endorsed articles of this type. I hope you were responsible, and, if so, I salute you. Last year, after years of trying, I was able to get almost two full pages of commentary and pictures in the Washington Post, which is certainly not known for its interest in agriculture or the interests of a small group of people. Get copies of the Detroit News article, give it to other beekeepers, and encourage them to approach their home newspaper for local coverage. George Imirie ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 10:37:06 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Varroa collapse Carlos Aparicio questioned why a colony would collapse from Varroa when it has been existing with populations of Varroa for some time. I think we have all experienced this. I live in a temperate climate and, because I raise only comb honey, I keep good records on every colony. Twice in past years I have had my highest producing colony collapse just after the supers were pulled. Dr. Nick Calderone from Cornell University thinks this is due to such an explosion of Varroa that both a high percentage of nurse bees are infected and a high percentage of worker larvae are infected. The net effect is that very few worker larvae mature into bees, and the existing worker bees have a very short life. In these conditions, a colony can collapse in just 3 weeks as there are no new worker bees to replace those that die. Dr. Calderone thinks that tracheal mites do not cause a sudden collapse, but a longer-term degeneration. Carlos, this applies to hives in temperate climates where summer/early fall collapse is seen. If bees are raising brood throughout your winter it might also apply in that case. Lloyd Spear LloydSpear@email.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 10:52:25 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Dr. Gerald L Barbor" Subject: Re: FGMO Bill, Read yout post of March 27 and wanted to respond since we are not too far apart geographically. I currently run about 80 colonies in south-central Pennsylvania. I used Apistan in late summer last year, kept plain grease patties on over the winter, and have not treated with anything this spring, so far. All my colonies are also super strong, to the point where I'm afraid of swarming before queens arrive on 4/16 for splits. I have seen no mites in the drone brood i have checked. I think two things are contributing to the strength of the colonies this year. First, of course, is our great weather this winter along with a heavy fall flow that left the hives with plenty of stores to get by on. Secondly, I really believe that the mites are in a "down cycle" this year because of resistance, natural cycles, the lack of feral colonies, you name it. You didn't mention if you had any control colonies and how they made out without the FGMO. I.m just another grunt letting you know what happened here. Jerry B On Fri, 27 Mar 1998 19:50:45 -0500 Bill Bartlett writes: >Last year I stated that I would be using FGMO and >would come back later in the Spring with my >results. First let me say that I understand that >what I write here is by no means an endorsement >or recommendation for use. As Andy N. puts it I >am just a grunt beekeeper doing my things my way. > After trying Strips, menthol, grease w/wo >terramyacin, essential oils, and trying to do >exactly as the directions stated, nothing so far >had been really successful. > >Last Spring I used the Apistan strips and found >that most mites (varroa) were gone. I got the >strips on early when the cluster was small. Then >I began reading the posts on FGMO by Dr. >Rodriguez. I applied as per directions to the >top bars in a small string. As most beekeepers >know you just can't make it to all the out yards >on a regular basis, so I will not try to attempt >to tell the intervals that I was able get done. >Once every two weeks is what I intended. > >Here in Southern Maryland, USA we had our first >really warm day. 81F! I did a deep inspection of >all frames in six hives here at my home. One >hive is stronger than any hive I have ever had at >this time of year. It is also the hive where I >found the most varroa mites, but never did I see >more then one on a drone larva. Four of the >other hives are doing very good. How do I guage >this? By the number of bees present and the >amount of brood. The last time I used FGMO was >in mid October last year, >so the mites have had a chance for a foot hold >again. > >I had 15 hives going into the winter. I have 14 >looking good now, after losing hives every year >for the past 7or 8 years. And I have my >scientific guesses as to why I lost the one hive. > > >Do I think we need more research? Yes. Do we >need to know how FGMO may effect the bees, wax, >and honey? Yes. Does it look like FGMO may have >some promise? >Yes. If it is works, it will last until >something better comes along or some thing else >happens with the mites. > >There is alot more that I could write in much >greater detail, but to say what I have will >stimulate some more " Let me try this". If there >is enough anecdotal stories then that is fine. I >have 26 years with the bees but have never been >much more then a hobbiest, but does give me some >credence. > >Your Grunt beekeeper > >billy bee > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 11:12:52 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ben Hanson Subject: Christian/atheist bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm very concerned that this discussion implies my bees might not be Christian..... Actually they haven't arrived yet. I'm expecting shipment on April 20 and am getting my hive ready today. Would anyone suggest that if I find I have been shipped Buddhist bees that Varroa mites shouldn't be killed as they might be the ancestors of my bees and therefore family, and if they are Muslim do I need to point the hive in a particular direction? Why can't all the bees of the world just live in harmony and respect the other religions of other breeds? Are the Africanized bees, therefore, evangelical bees? They seem to be trying to bring others into the fold. I suggest, therefore, we rename the species Missionary bees in honor of their holy battle. Sorry if I'm stepping on any toes, but the religious implications of beekeeping are escaping me at the moment... Ben ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 20:31:05 +0200 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jan Tempelman Organization: Home Subject: Re: varroa collapse MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 VGVyZXNhIEdhcmNtYSB3cm90ZToNCj4gDQoNCj4gVGhlIGRyb25lIGxhcnZhZSBoYXMgYSBs b25nZXIgYmlvbG9naWNhbCBjeWNsZSAobG9uZ2VyIHRpbWUgY2FwcGVkDQo+IGJyb29kKSwg c28gaXQgYWxsb3dzIHRoZSB2YXJyb2EgdG8gcmVwcm9kdWNlIG1vcmUgZWZmaWNpZW50bHks IGl0IGFsc28NCj4gc2VlbXMgdG8gaGF2ZSBhIHBoZXJvbW9uZSB0aGF0IGF0dHJhY3RzIG1v cmUgdmFycm9hcyB0aGFuIHdvcmtlciBsYXJ2YWUuDQoNCjEyIHRpbWUhISENCg0KVG8gYXQg ZHJvbmUgZnJhbWVzIGluIHRoZSBzcHJpbmd0aW1lIGFuZCByZW1vdmUgdGhlIGNsb3NlZCBm cmFtZXMNCnRoZSB2YXJyb2EgcG9wdWxhdGlvbiBDQU4nVCBncm93ISENCm1vcmUgb24gdGhl IGRyb25lIG1ldGhvZCBvbjoNCmh0dHA6Ly93d3cueHM0YWxsLm5sL35qdGVtcC9kcm9uZW1l dGhvZC5odG1sDQoNCmdyZWV0aW5nLCBqYW4NCrCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCw sLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsA0KSmFuIFRlbXBlbG1hbiAvIEluZWtl IERyYWJiZSAgICAgfCAgICAgbWFpbHRvOmp0ZW1wQHhzNGFsbC5ubA0KU3RlcnJlbW9zIDE2 ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgMzA2OSBBUyBSb3R0ZXJkYW0sIFRoZSBOZXRoZXJsYW5kcw0KVGVs L0ZheCAoU09NRVRJTUVTKSBYWCAzMSAoMCkxMC00NTY5NDEyDQpodHRwOi8vd3d3LnhzNGFs bC5ubC9+anRlbXAvaW5kZXgzLmh0bWwNCrCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCw sLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsA0KDQoNCg== ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 16:29:29 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: tomas mozer Subject: Re: leatherwood(?)honey in southeast usa Comments: To: bobbarnett@worldnet.att.net On Wed, 25 Mar 1998 19:13:40 -0600 Robert Barnett writes: >Hello Anthony: >These comments are not intended to relate to "Tazmanian" Leatherwood, >and I >suspect these plants referenced are very different. Leatherwood in >the >Southeastern USA (southern Virginia down the coastal states, to and >including Florida then west to Louisiana, especially in the " Coastal >Plain" >areas of these states, have such a plant, more often called Titi, >which is >botanically, Cyrilla racemiflora L. It is a semi-evergreen shrub or >small >tree with gray or reddish spongy bark, and thick leathery glossy >leaves with >a netlike venation pattern on the upper surface. Numerous racemes >4-12 >inches long are born on second year growth. The small flowers are >about >1/16 inch across, white, with 5 petals bearing glandular tissue on the >inner >surface and secreting a nectar that is attractive to bees. Down this >far >south they bloom quite early, and are in fact gone by mid april in >south >central Alabama where I maintained a strong colony for 5 or 6 years. >There, the plant does not produce honey for harvest because of 1) >insufficient number of plants 2) the bees do not pursue it with >enthusiasm. > I have never tasted this honey, but further south near the coast, >Titi does >have a role. Perhaps, someone from that area will comment. Further, >it >has a reputation for contributing to, if not causing " Purple >brood", as >a manifestation of the nectar's poisonous effect on the brood. I >have >seen my bees working the few plants near my colony, but have not seen >purple >brood. I believe there are other varieties of leatherwood up as far >as the >northeastern states and even Maine, where it may be called Black Titi, >or >Buckwheat Tree. Nothing further >---------- to add to the confusion, let me paraphrase from "florida bee botany", an extension circular available from the "FAIRS"(florida agricultural information retrieval service?) link in m.t.sanford's APIS newsletter web site's links page: "buckwheat tree (cliftonia monophylla),or black titi,often called spring titi...prolific in the panhandle...blooms from feb. to apr. and often contributes to a surplus honey crop....white titi(cyrilla racemiflora), often called summer titi...common small tree or shrub found from central peninsula northwards...blooms from may to july...usually produces little nectar...is considered undesirable because nectar/pollen are responsible for a condition known as "purple brood"...killing brood,turning it a rich purple color." paradoxically, have seen a bluish/purplish honey purported to be titi, presumably the toxic effects on brood rearing are transitory, and a strong colony in a titi nectar flow can survive it even producing a surplus in a "good" year...then again maybe not, just another of many mysteries in the miasma of apicultural epistemology... _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 06:03:27 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Martin Braunstein Subject: Re: FGMO treatment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Carlos, Mineral Oil is exactly alike Fluid Liquid Vaseline, different names for the same thing. Regards. Martin Braunstein Malka Cabania Apicola e-mail: malka@webnet.com.ar ---------- > From: Carlos Aparicio > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Re: FGMO treatment > Date: viernes 27 de marzo de 1998 15:08 > > Some days ago I went to a drugstore to buy mineral oil. They said they > didn't have the stuff, I insisted, and after talking with chemical manager > they sold me a bottle of liquid vaseline. > > I this Mineral Oil, or wil it work like?? > > Any information will be wellcome. > > > > > CARLOS APARICIO > > > At 07:33 PM 26/03/1998 -0600, Elroy Rogers wrote: > >Hi fellow Beekeepers, > > As requested I am sending this email I wrote to a beekeeper asking > >how I treated for V-mites, below is the 20 second treatment. As > >mentioned in an earlier post this process did stand up to comparison > >test with Apistan. > >..... ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 19:38:08 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Beekeeperc Subject: Re: FGMO treatment Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Carlos, Vaseline is a PETROLEUM PRODUCT and can NOT be used like Mineral Oil. You can drink Mineral Oil and it would not harm you, only make you go to the bathroom. Norm ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 17:51:55 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: FGMO treatment In-Reply-To: <66e9963a.351d97f2@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 07:38 PM 3/28/98 -0500, you wrote: >Carlos, Vaseline is a PETROLEUM PRODUCT and can NOT be used like Mineral Oil. >You can drink Mineral Oil and it would not harm you, only make you go to the >bathroom. Hay Guys, I am getting confused, is not "mineral oil" a refined petroleum product? I believe the dividing line is still between Veg'ge oils from seeds and Mineral oils from refined petroleum and animal oils. Then there are synthetic oils which could start as one or the other and some of them are reported to give some people the runs when they consume more then a pound or two of chips cooked in them just reaching the store shelves here in California. Heck all this is like new math to me so I guess we should try them all. I am sure if you drink more then a little mineral oil you would be in a world of hurt. But in any case the effect MO or any oil has on mites is not because they or their host are eating it, I believe the idea is the bees get it on themselves and the mites become coated with it and it suffocates them. At least that is the way MO or Oil is used to control mites in other larger anemias, and in fact used motor oil works good with some of these mites when nothing else is at hand. The same as when a bees gets in your ear and you are miles away from home I have used the oil that drains off the dip stick in my truck to do the job and avoided a very painful bee sting so close to my brains. I would suggest that you let this oil cool just a bit before trying this one or you will have a dirty red ear for a day or two. I guess that is why I never had a problem with mites in that ear, folded up the live bee so he came right out and did in my own mites with 3 in One oil. One from use in the truck. MO is light enough in viscosity that it does not cause harm to the bees themselves unless applied directly in amounts that it completely coats them and then some loss would be expected. As I understand it. The original idea was to spread it on a few top bars of brood comb or on a paper carrier that the bees would have to walk in or work on and then it would be spread around in amounts that do in the mites and do no harm to the bees or their environment. Repeated treatments would be necessary to get the majority of the mites of course. Some beekeepers have expanded this idea to spraying the bee hive entrance so the bees have to walk in the oil and seem to be reporting some success, a heck of lot better then spraying them with Omite, a lot cheaper too. I would like to point out that many treatments like MO have been suggested in the past. One that comes to mind is the dusting of the bees in the hive with rice flower. Hard to find here but common in India and Asia. Anyway the idea was that it coated the mites sticky padded feet and they could not hold on to their host and fell off and starved to death. Have no idea if this has ever been tested in the US, suspect not, or do I know if other flowers or finely ground materials would do the same thing. ttul, the OLd Drone stop in and view the new pictures of the effects of El Nino on California beekeeping just posted 3/28 http://209.76.50.54 (c)Permission is given to copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 18:10:05 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: Clover honey In-Reply-To: <000101bd5863$b715aea0$5e2d11cb@bakhtin> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:59 PM 3/26/98 +1100, you wrote: >I noted during a recent visit to the US that the most common honey on the >shelves was called 'clover'. I wonder if this marks a difference in the way >bees are distributed, or simply a difference of naming convention between >the two counties. >Does 'clover' refer to a specific bee realm, or is it a generic term, like >'ground flora'? Clover honey in the US can be any honey that is light in color and mild in flavor. Much alfalfa honey is sold as clover. Little pure white clover honey is produced today as it once was. The real thing means different things to different folks. From my experience real White Sweet Clover honey as I produced it once in the higher elevations of the western slopes of the Rocky mountains in Colorado had a real cinnamon flavor, was colorless, could not be pored out of a five gallon can when liquid without heating, and could be stored in the basement of the honey house from one season to the next and remain liquid but would turn creamy between my honey house and the honey packing plant a day's travel away. I have also seen clover honey from Nevada that came in by rail that could not be pored out of the five gallon cans without heating. This one car had damage and the bottom cans were stuck to the floor by the broken cans that did manage to leak out and the bottom tier of cans cold not be removed by lifting on the bails with out ripping them off the can. We had to get hot water to brake the honey seal to get the cans out of the car. We also found out why in the olden days cans were cased two to a wooden case for shipment by rail. ttul, the Old Drone check my web site for pic's of todays beekeeping today latest pic's were take last week http://209.76.50.54 (c)Permission is given to copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 16:59:10 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Good Queens Comments: To: Adam Finkelstein In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > > Note I've avoided discussion of Varroa mites > > here - varroa mites simply ARE NOT interested in queens. > I've seen queens with varroa mites on them. I presume we are talking adult queens here. Has anyone seen a queen cell with varroa inside? Allen --- FAQs? There is no BEE-L FAQ - as such - but you can search for answers to most common questions by visiting http://www.beekeeping.co.nz/beel.htm or send email to LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU and say Search BEE-L KEYWORD(S) ('KEYWORD(S)' means a word or words unique to your question) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 07:19:14 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert E Butcher Subject: mineral oil Carlos. You can find mineral oil in the laxative section of your drug store. God Bless You Robert&Teresa Butcher bobbees@juno.com _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]