========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 08:52:46 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: P-O Gustafsson Subject: Re: Laying workers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Anyhow. The most foolproof method to deal with laying workers is to > combine the colony with a good one, and split again in several days > or weeks -- But remember this only works in spring! Doing it in the autumn will havethe reverse effect, no queen left at all. And it wouldn't be any good even if the queen would survive, when the bees from the queenless colony are too old to make it through winter anyway. -- Regards P-O Gustafsson, Sweden beeman@algonet.se http://www.algonet.se/~beeman/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 01:54:35 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Laying workers In-Reply-To: <3549713E.81AA8125@algonet.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > > Anyhow. The most foolproof method to deal with laying workers is to > > combine the colony with a good one, and split again in several days > > or weeks -- > > But remember this only works in spring! Doing it in the autumn will > have the reverse effect, no queen left at all. Hmmm. Can't say that I've ever heard of that -- not to say that it's not true -- just that I haven't heard of of or noticed it. We've often combined miscellaneous hives in fall without noticing this effect. Has anyone else had this experience? > And it wouldn't be any good even if the queen would survive, when the > bees from the queenless colony are too old to make it through winter > anyway. True. I guess it did not ocur to me that someone might be considering fall splits, especially since it is currently spring in my area. I suppose such splits might work in an area where fall splits work -- assuming that the queen is not lost as you suggest -- however fall splits are usually unsuccessful in areas with long severe winters. As for the old bees, I suspect they might do some good in getting the hive organised for winter, but would dwindle out during winter. I know some beekeepers suggest deliberately losing old bees before winter by several artificial means. This is advocated for various reasons including acarine control, however I personally think that the more bees there are -- regardless of age -- the better. Allen ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 00:20:15 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Swarm cells already! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all We were out trying to find the queens in one apiary and the hives were bursting with bees, pouring out of the top bars as I am trying to look around. The problem is this: there are already swarm cells and they are at the stage where they are finished, as in closed at the bottom. My idea of splitting this early was to prevent just that: swarming. Here's the question: If I split, add a queen, and add either a second brood box, or a honey super ( since they are bringing in tons of nectar), will that cause the bees to "forget" about swarming?.....or is it too late? Thanks, Ian Watson realtor@niagara.com real estate agent gardener baritone beekeeper---> 12 colonies ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 08:52:38 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: P-O Gustafsson Subject: Re: Queens Piping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Does it mean anything when the queens pipe, or is it just something they > > do? > > AFAIK, no one really knows. Some say they are calling each other to duel > it out to the death. I have always thought it is the queens ways of communicating with each other.I have never heard the sound when there hasn't been another queen present, in the hive or in a nearby queen cage. Several times when I have been looking through hives that are about to swarm I have found the old queen walking on the frame with swarm cells, piping loudly with the confined virgins answering in another tone. As long as the old queen is there piping, the virgins stay in their cells but when I remove the queen they will hatch out immediately. So I think it is the feromones from another queen that causes the piping, but only when there are young queens present. It may also be when the queens aren't heading a colony, because two queen (or more) colonies don't have the sounds. Worker bees sometimes make a similar sound, but not the same as the queens, and not so loud. -- Regards P-O Gustafsson, Sweden beeman@algonet.se http://www.algonet.se/~beeman/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 02:54:37 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Subject: Pollen Supplement Update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT We continue to have amazingly low winter loss and it is now May 1. Our spreadsheet shows 5.6% loss -- counting from our October wrapping date to present. How much of amazing success is due to el Nino, I do not know. Lots, I suspect, however some neighbours are not doing nearly as well. The only things -- other than el Nino -- that were very different last year in our operation was the use of both pollen supplement and extender patties as described previously here. We continue to use the pollen substitute patties despite the presence of pollen from trees and flowers on the belief that the natural pollens may not be balanced in protein and that the patties may provide continuity of supply and broaden the protein nutritive spectrum. It seems the bees agree, since a pound or more of patty now disappears in a day or two. Of course, we cannot get out to replace the patties that fast, but we are not worried. There is natural pollen coming in, and we reckon that the bees just *have* to be better off with a good meal now and then from pollen supplementation than they would be depending on the natural supply -- and its vagaries -- alone. We tend to start feeding the patties weeks later than many local beekeepers and continue longer, since we do not want to give the bees a false start early in the spring and feel that they will come up fast enough when nature is right. We just try to supplement and re-inforce the natural buildup. Our goal is not to raise just more bees, but rather 'super bees' -- bees that have never been nutritionally deprived. Our theory is that such bees will be more robust and in turn raise better bees throughout the season and have fewer diseases. We are in a poor pollen area and have never had the crops or wintering that many others in Alberta take for granted. As Dave remarked some time back there are areas where pollen is better, and beekeepers in those areas have enhanced luck. We are trying to manufacture some luck -- and maybe it is working. Here is what we are using currently. The formula is not cast in stone, and we do vary it to get athe texture we want by adding more or less soy and sugar. FWIW, we accidentally forgot the pollen in a batch and the bees ate it just the same. Maybe it was because they had already acquired a taste for soy and yeast, or maybe it was because of the hot weather and brood hatching, or maybe it was because of the high sugar content. I do have some concerns about the sugar content we use, since we do have to make bigger patties and lug a lot of sugar around to get the same amount of protein into the bees but what the heck, it works. We start with 3-5 gallon pails of 67% sugar syrup in the 5 cu ft cement mixer (no blades). Then we add a couple of similar buckets of brewers yeast from California Spray Dry in Stockton CA. After that is mixed fairly well, we add a couple of buckets of soy (honeysoy brand) and a bag (40 kg) or so of white sugar. Somewhere in the process, (if we remember) we add a half pail or a bit less of pollen or pollen dust. The ingredients are mixed until they are a nice dough lump that has a firm texture and which rolls around in the mixer. This is where adding more soy comes in -- we adjust the moisture by adding soy, since it is a bit like a sponge for water compared to the yeast The mixing must take place continuously, since if you stop (say overnight), the whole thing gets firm and sets a bit as the soy expands. The idea is to mix and dump the whole mess in one operation over an hour or two. We dump onto a 1/3 plywood sheet and, after it has firmed up overnight, cut it into ~ 3" X 3" X 10" 'loaves' and roll it out with a rolling pin on a soy flour covered board into slabs about 3/4 inch thick and 6 or eight inches wide. If you don't know how to do this, ask your mom. A pizza roller cutter then cuts it into patties about 5 inches wide which are tucked into folded pieces of pre-cut wax paper about the size of a 8-1/2 X 11 inch standard letter, along with ample soy flour to prevent sticking. These patties are then stacked in standard supers with 3/8" plywood nailed on for a bottom and are then lugged to the truck. It takes a strong man to carry one. The patties then go directly over the brood in each box. Important: Early in the spring, the patty will be strictly ignored if the patty is not within 3 inches of the brood. So what is the composition? Well, there is approx 40 x 3 = 120# sugar and 20 x 3 = 60# water in the syrup, plus 50# each of soy and yeast and then 12 pounds pollen another 88# sugar. Thus we see that the patties are 208:60:50:50:12 sugar:water:soy:yeast:pollen. This means they are 2/3 sugar based on dry weight. And, at best, 15% protein. Hmmm. Comments anyone? How long will we continue to feed patties? Well, next week is the beginning of splitting time for us, and we will likely have to discontinue patty making before too very long, since there is a limit to how long we can convince our patty crew to keeep doing what becomes a dirty boring job after a few weeks, and besides, we will likely need the help elsewhere. We will use up what we have made to date, and make more on rainy days for fall use. Allen ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 09:09:13 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter Subject: Swarms and Nucs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit How successfull is taking a hive full of swarm cells and dividing it into 3 or 4 nucs depending on the brood and number of cells available? My understanding is that swarm cell queens are pretty well raised and fairly strong. My plan is to do this where I have the most hives in one location so as to have a fair quantity of drones available for mating- nothing like the big guys but I have extra hives this year and don't mind shutting down my paying job to go out and play with the bees. Tom in CT ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 10:00:39 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "beekeeping.miningco.com" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0030_01BD74E7.FEEF3980" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0030_01BD74E7.FEEF3980 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi everyone, My name is Sherry Medders, I'm the beekeeping guide for The Mining Company, an online search engine that is done by people not computers, My topic of course is beekeeping. I'm currently building my category lists (Net Links) as to subjects that I think will benefit beekeepers and hobbists. The whole idea of the site is to make it easier for the beekeepers or hobbists to find all the information in one place, Thus saving time searching through the Internet.. I need your help, If there was a place in the net with all the information on beekeeping, what information would you expect to find? I have been working very hard on this site. But I feel your input on this site is very important as it will help me help you and others, which is what I hope to achieve. I also hope to make my site a close community of friends. This is not a plug for The Mining Company, just a sincere pled for your input so I can make this site as useful as possible. Thanks Sherry Medders beekeeping.guide@miningco.com http://beekeeping.miningco.com http://miningco.com ------=_NextPart_000_0030_01BD74E7.FEEF3980 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi everyone,
My name is Sherry Medders, I'm the beekeeping guide = for The=20 Mining Company,
an online search engine that is done by people not = computers,=20 My topic of
course is beekeeping.
I'm currently building my = category lists=20 (Net Links) as to subjects that I
think will benefit beekeepers and = hobbists.=20 The whole idea of the site is to
make it easier for the beekeepers or = hobbists to find all the information in
one place, Thus saving time = searching=20 through the Internet..
I need your help, If there was a place in the = net with=20 all the information
on beekeeping, what information would you expect = to=20 find?
I have been working very hard on this site. But I feel  = your input=20 on this site is very
important as it will help me help you and = others, which=20 is what I hope to
achieve. I also hope to make my site a close = community of=20 friends. This is
not a plug for The Mining Company, just a sincere = pled for=20 your input so I
can make this site as useful as possible.=20 Thanks    Sherry Medders

beekeeping.guide@miningco.c= om
http://beekeeping.miningco.com
http://miningco.com

 
<= /BODY> ------=_NextPart_000_0030_01BD74E7.FEEF3980-- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 09:07:23 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Musashi Subject: Re: Swarms and Nucs I had a hive that made swarm cells earlier this spring and they were mostly on two frames (about a half dozen on each frame) with one or two on other frames. I cut out the one or two "strays" and took the other two frames and put one in each of two nucs with another comb or two. I meant to go back and cut out all but one or two cells in each nuc but I didn't make it, so they all emerged (I assume) and a couple of weeks later I found a mated laying queen (beauties) in each nuc. I had placed these nucs next to a large hive with lots of drones. I left the old queen in the old hive (moved to a new location) but I think they still swarmed later anyway. But I consider my nucs to be an unqualified success. Layne Westover College Station, Texas ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 12:08:12 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Swarm Cells Already! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Ian Watson wrote: > ... The problem is this: there are already swarm cells and > they are at the stage where they are finished, as in > closed at the bottom. I too was surprised to find sealed queen cells in a few hives yesterday. It certainly is an early season in these parts (upstate NY). A sealed queen cell can be anywhere between 1 and 13 days old. However, once your bees are to the point of sealing cells, it's a safe bet they're gonna swarm and you need to take preventative measures. Cutting out the cells is a delay tactic at best. Splitting is a better idea, but you still may run into problems with one of your splits swarming. Introducing a new queen to the queenless split may not interrupt the brood rearing sufficiently to thwart the swarming impulse. You will be better off playing with the swarming impulse rather than fighting it. Manage your bees such that they cast a swarm on your schedule rather than their's. This is a classic situation to make a shook swarm! Take the frame on which the queen is laying and place it in a deep hive body with 9 frames of foundation. Add empty supers (at least two) with only foundation frames above a queen excluder on the new hive. Move the original hive more than three feet away, but in the same vicinity and place the new hive on the original site. The field bees will all return to the original site, now the new hive, which should be augmented with bees from the original hive by shaking the bees from half to two thirds of the frames in front of the new hive. Imperative in the shaking exercise is that you leave enough bees in the original hive to care for the remaining brood. This new hive will draw the foundation at an AMAZING rate! Cut out all but two of the queen cells in the original hive to let the bees raise a new queen. The original hive will recover quickly (it is probably jammed with brood) and will likely produce at least a super, perhaps two - queen excluder not necessary but recommended. These units can be combined in late summer for fall preparation. Now, I have summarized in 30 lines a topic on which many authors have written entire books. Some will recommend that the Recommended reading: _The_New_Comb_Honey_Book_ by Richard Taylor and _Swarming:_It's_Causes_and_Control_ by L.E. Snelgrove. Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 22:43:51 -0400 Reply-To: john.kriz@snet.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "John J. Kriz" Subject: Smokers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I can't keep mine lit? How to do it? Best fuel? New keeper. Thanks ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 03:46:31 +1200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Organization: Bay of Plenty Polytechnic Subject: NZ Beekeeping Tour... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT TOUR OF MILLENNIUM, N.Z. 2000 USA AND CANADIAN BEEKEEPERS TOUR OF NEW ZEALAND January 25th to February 8th, 2000 Fully escorted tour by one of New Zealand's acknowledged beekeeping experts, Trevor Bryant. Trevor has organised three highly successful tours to NZ and Australia and now this, the tour of the Millennium. It is a unique opportunity for North American beekeepers to combine New Zealand's scenic beauty with an excellent cross-section of beekeeping in New Zealand. The itinerary has been carefully planned for the person interested in an in-depth look at New Zealand apiculture. Be they part timer, hobbyist, professional, commercial beekeeper. The non beekeeper spouse is provided with the opportunity to relax and enjoy the scenic beauty and adventures of New Zealand or just perhaps shop and be entertained by New Zealanders. Itinerary includes: * Beekeeping visits to leading queen breeders and package bee producers/exporters in Northern New Zealand * Beehive equipment manufacturers and supply houses - North and South * Honey producers, packers, processors and entrepreneurs * Meeting local beekeepers and spouses for BBQs and socialise in the evenings and at lunch breaks throughout the tour. For the Non Beekeeper: * Wander through some of New Zealand's most beautiful gardens, private and public, and see New Zealand's majestic Kauri forest and native bush * Visits to historic places and Maori pa sites and learn some of our cultural heritage * Go jet boating, fishing, walking or just shop in places like Rotorua, Queenstown, Auckland and Christchurch * Meet and greet with real New Zealanders All this and more for just... $US4,060 per person (twin share) single supplement: $582 Subject to international currency fluctuation, airfares and other rates beyond the organiser's control Cost includes: * Airfares (Los Angeles - Auckland return) * Accommodation (twin share) * 14 breakfasts * 12 lunches * 14 dinners including Maori hangi and concert * Entry fees to planned sightseeing venues * Internal airfares and use of luxury travelling coach Optional extras are available on request for those who may wish to extend their stay or perhaps visit one of our other Pacific neighbours pre or post tour. For more information, please write to: Trevor G Bryant Alpha Bees Limited PO Box 486 Te Puke 3071 Bay of Plenty NEW ZEALAND Tel/fax: 0064 7 573 6885 email: alphabee@xtra.co.nz or Jo Page United Travel PO Box 271 Te Puke Tel: 0064 7 573 7805 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 21:09:54 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Peter Amschel Subject: Re: Queen piping In-Reply-To: <02433483705274@systronix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > I have observed many queens piping. They stand still on the comb face, > flatten their thorax and abdomen against the comb, extend their head and > mouth parts forward, and appear to pump their abdomen to make the noise > (actually much like a cow or lion bellowing). When finished they stand up > again and move on. They may stop several times exhibiting the same > behavior. That's amazing! This afternoon during my inspection of their hive and as I was finishing up I noticed the bees making a steady buzz all at the same time in a harmonic tone. How do they make this sound? Surely they don't rub their back legs on their backs like crickets do to make this buzz? Piping? "You learn something every day." ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 15:45:47 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: The Bee Works Subject: Re: Swarms and Nucs In-Reply-To: <8f7e729f.3549c97b@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 1 May 98 at 9:09, BeeCrofter wrote: > How successfull is taking a hive full of swarm cells and > dividing it into 3 > or 4 nucs depending on the brood and number of cells available? > My understanding is that swarm cell queens are pretty well > raised and > fairly strong. A good way to do things. Provided the cells are not emergency cells ie. ones raised from a queenless hive. Without interference from the keeper, true emergency cells will rarely produce quality queens. ******************************************* The Bee Works, 9 Progress Dr, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1 Phone/fax 705-326-7171 David Eyre, Owner. http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks e-mail ******************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 19:54:26 -0400 Reply-To: beekeepr@bellsouth.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Frank Humphrey Subject: Re: Smokers Comments: To: john.kriz@snet.net In-Reply-To: <354936E7.67DA@snet.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > I can't keep mine lit? How to do it? Best fuel? > New keeper. > Thanks > I use a very small and just bare puncture the bottom of the smoker in about 3 places. This allows the smoker the draw a small amount of air and helps to keep it lit. Don't get too many or else you will burn all your fuel while the smoker is not in use. Just put 1 or 2 holes to start(about 1/64 of an inches. I don't know about mm.). Frank Humphrey beekeepr@bellsouth.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 16:41:37 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard Bonney Subject: Re: Swarm Cells Already! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ian Watson said > > ... The problem is this: there are already swarm cells and > > they are at the stage where they are finished, as in > > closed at the bottom. > Aaron Morris said > A sealed queen cell can be anywhere between 1 and 13 days old. > However, once your bees are to the point of sealing cells, it's a safe bet > they're gonna swarm and you need to take preventative measures. If all is proceeding normally, and if the weather allows, the swarm will immerge on or about the day that queen cells are capped. Cutting capped queen cells, or otherwise messing with the colony after cells are capped creates the real possibility that the hive will become queenless since the old queen has left, and larvae with queen potential are maturing out of that potential. Dick Bonney ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 19:10:18 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tom Speight Subject: Re: Queen piping In-Reply-To: <02433320405272@systronix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <02433320405272@systronix.net>, Excerpts from BEE-L writes > As she had been in the hive whilst I was looking at the frame, what bee made > the piping sound on the frame I was first looking at? Why do they pipe anyway, when all the 'experts' tell us bees can't hear? Could it be that the bees know better than the experts? -- Tom Speight ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 09:53:35 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Joel Govostes Subject: Re: Swarm Cells Already! In-Reply-To: <3549FB3F.2C1D@javanet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To stave off swarming, you can just remove the queen and 3-4 combs of brood & stores to a new hive, making sure no swarm cells remain on these combs. Then replace these combs in the orig. hive with empties or foundation. Set the "new" hive on the old stand, and move the orig. hive a couple of feet away, facing the same direction. The field bees all return to the old stand, depleting the congested brood nest of some bees. (They soon obtain a new queen from one of the swarm cells). This normally prevents the colony from throwing a swarm with the first queen that emerges. Granted, this divides the hive, but at least you don't lose the swarm, and it provides you with a new queen as well. If you are after a big honey crop, then unite the two units back together once the new queen has been laying for a couple of weeks. This works well as a last-minute maneuver. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 19:34:20 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Laying workers In-Reply-To: <000001bd755c$771d6ca0$4c7435cf@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > I've never experimented to see but I was taught that bees will not > combine after the first frost in Autumn. Good point. After frost, there is often dearth, and yet the bees are very active during this period and will rob and fight. Many years ago at the start of my career as a bug rancher, I combined some bees late in the season and had major fighting. A pile of dead bees accumulated in front of the hive. Since then, though, my instincts have developed and it would not even ocur to me to combine hives under circumstances that might result in problems. So, I guess the rule is if you know what you are doing you can do lots of things, but if you are not sure, caution is the best policy. A seasoned beekeeper just knows the situation at a glance -- without even being conscious of the factors that guide his decisions -- and proceeds very casually with things that can result in disaster for the inexperienced. Allen -- Buy, sell, trade, get a job, hire help, announce a meeting, advertise a business or publication... For free *beekeeping related* classified ads, visit http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/BeeAds/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 19:54:23 -0400 Reply-To: beekeepr@bellsouth.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Frank Humphrey Subject: Re: Laying workers Comments: To: allend@internode.net In-Reply-To: <07561822705842@internode.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > > But remember this only works in spring! Doing it in the autumn will > > have the reverse effect, no queen left at all. > > Hmmm. Can't say that I've ever heard of that -- not to say that it's not > true -- just that I haven't heard of of or noticed it. We've often > combined miscellaneous hives in fall without noticing this effect. Has > anyone else had this experience? > > Allen > I've never experimented to see but I was taught that bees will not combine after the first frost in Autumn. Frank Humphrey beekeepr@bellsouth.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 18:21:26 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: JRVinLov Subject: HELP !!! Need Advice on Live Capture of Skunk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit We have a skunk in the yard. He only appears at night, after we have gone to bed. He digs little holes ALL over the lawn. The lawn is trashed. He must be eating bees too. His poop is near the hives. We have a live trap. We would like to relocate the little fellow. Does anyone know what we should use for bait. Cat food caught raccoon, grain yielded a possum. What = skunk ??? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 22:01:10 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: EMakovec Subject: Re: Smoker Fuel Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I can't answer your question about chemicals on cardboard, but here's another suggestion. Next time you wear out a pair of bluejeans, cut them up and use them in your smoker. They are easy to light and smoulder for a long time. I now have friends save their old bluejeans for me. Eugene Makovec Kirkwood, MO ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 14:21:41 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garry Libby Subject: Re: HELP !!! Need Advice on Live Capture of Skunk In-Reply-To: <93801662.354a4ae7@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Vin, You can use cat food to bait it.Then approach the trap with a discardable blanket or sheet outstretched so the skunk can't see You(he won't spray)cover the trap,then move it to a distant location.Put the trap on the roof of the vehicle(keep covered at all times.)When You get to the location,open the trap then lift blanket to keep You hidden,then back away.That should work.Good luck. Garry Libby Boston,USA LibBEE@email.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 16:03:17 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Gunnar Sporrong Subject: would like recepies with bee products Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi everyone! I'm intrested in products containing honey, vax or propolis for producing stuff to use like polish, shoeshine, food, candels and other stuff. This could be things for private use or things for presents, etc. Thanx! Gunnar (Since a week ago, owner of 10 hives.) P.S. Send you'r ideas to me privately! (astro@inorbit.com) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 23:32:54 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tom Speight Subject: Furness Spring Convention MIME-Version: 1.0 Furness Beekeepers will hold their Spring Convention in the Malt Kiln, Bardsea, Near Ulverston, Cumbria on Saturday, May 9th 1998. Open 9.30 am Lectures start 10.00am prompt. Finish about 4.30 pm Speakers Ron Brown of Torquay, and Medwin Bew, of the National Beekeeping Unit, York. also beginners course with John Skinner. (Hands-on demonstration, weather permitting) Admission five pounds and one pound for juniors. including tea, coffee and home made goodies. Pub lunches arranged if required. please e-mail me for further information if required -- Tom Speight ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 22:46:01 -0400 Reply-To: vcoppola@froggernet.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Re: Swarms and Nucs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit BeeCrofter wrote: > > How successfull is taking a hive full of swarm cells and dividing it into 3 > or 4 nucs depending on the brood and number of cells available? > My understanding is that swarm cell queens are pretty well raised and > fairly strong. Success should be good with regard to queen and nuc quality but this may be an expensive method. Even if the situation arises unplanned, I think you would be better off removing just four frames with queen cells. Add three frames to each from other colonies. Now you have your four nucs, the swarming colony should still be strong enough to be productive, and swarming is stemmed. This may not be the best advice for your area or if the main flow is close or soon. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 12:29:55 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jean-Marie Van Dyck Subject: Re: Swarms and Nucs In-Reply-To: <354BDA68.44D1B3D9@froggernet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello all >BeeCrofter wrote: >>How successfull is taking a hive full of swarm cells and dividing it into 3 >>or 4 nucs depending on the brood and number of cells available? >>My understanding is that swarm cell queens are pretty well raised and >>fairly strong. > > Success should be good ... [V Coppola answer cut] but you know we're saying, in French : "Qui seme l'essaim, recoltera l'essaim" which in English means "Who sows the swarm, will collect the swarms" ! No matter if you like it ! Regards Jean-Marie Van Dyck ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 19:25:04 -0400 Reply-To: mpalmer@together.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Palmer Organization: French Hill Apiaries Subject: beta-blockers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Some time age, there was a discussion about anti-inflamatories causing a reaction to bee stings. I have a daughter on a beta-blocker (atenolol). Does anyone know if beta-blockers can cause a similar reaction? mike ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 18:09:11 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Bartlett Subject: Amazing thing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, today I had an amazing experience. Never has happened before and will probably never happen again. I will keep this as short as I can and still tell the story. I was working in the garden and heard my bees buzzing. Sure enough they were swarming! My best hive that I found queen cells in the other day and split the hive three ways. I left one queen cell just in case at the mother hive. I called my wife over to watch the swarm. I sat right in front and many bees landed on me but were not interested in me. I had on shorts, tee shirt and cap. I mentioned to my wife, "Wouldn't it be neat if I saw the queen". Well lo and behold she came out and was walking up the front of the hive. My first response was to grab her and I did. I held her cupped in my two hands. I thought I could get the bees to swarm on my hand but they didn't. I placed my hands at the entrance on the bottom board, but they didn't act like I had the queen, so I opened my fingers a little so they could find her. Well out she flew. I remember reading on this site that she may fly right back. And she did! Right where I picked her up before. This time I grabbed her and got a handful of bees with her. I yelled to my wife, (got very upset at me yelling at her). Do something! Well we managed to set up a hive. She took off the inner cover and I shook the bees quickly into the hive (drawn comb). I waited to see what would happen. My wife said she saw the queen fly off. I sat and watched. No bees went into the new hive which was close to the old hive. So I moved it up next to the old hive. No bees going in or out. Ah shucks. I sat there for awhile watching and hoping for I don't know what. The bees seemed to stop swarming and went back into the hive. Not only that, but they started stinging me. Took a few to the face and various other parts. Later today I went into the hive and found that they had not swarmed. There were just too many bees still in there and also found two ripe queen cells. I only keep bees for fun and this was about as good as I could expect. billy bee ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 12:59:08 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pollinator Subject: Re: HELP !!! Need Advice on Live Capture of Skunk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/2/98 12:50:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, JRVinLov@AOL.COM writes: << We have a skunk in the yard. He only appears at night, after we have gone to bed. He digs little holes ALL over the lawn. The lawn is trashed. He must be eating bees too. His poop is near the hives. We have a live trap. We would like to relocate the little fellow. Does anyone know what we should use for bait. Cat food caught raccoon, grain yielded a possum. What = skunk ??? >> YOU WANTA CATCH A SKUNK IN A LIVE TRAP?? This has gotta be a troll! Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 13:36:35 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Al Needham Subject: Re: HELP !!! Need Advice on Live Capture of Skunk On Fri, 1 May 1998 18:21:26 EDT JRVinLov writes: >We have a skunk in the yard. Cat food caught raccoon, grain yielded a possum. What = skunk ??? My wife says that skunks 'love eggs' and 'grubs'. 'Grubs' are probably the cause of digging your place up. So..try a couple of eggs. Be interested if they work, let us know. Al, .......................................................................... <"Mailto: awneedham@juno.com" > Scituate,Massachusetts,USA The Beehive-Educational Honey Bee Site Visit Ye Olde Honey Bee Book Shoppe http://www.xensei.com/users/alwine _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 10:05:18 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: aarcher Subject: Queen in reserve MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Can an extra queen be kept in reserve if kept in a cage in an otherwise normal colony. I have just heard that several queens are sometimes kept together in cages in the same queenright colony, but can't find anything on the subject in the books I have available. It doesn't seem that the bees would normally tolerate more than one queen. Confused but interested in the details of how its done. Sorry to have used all the bandwidth. Send e-mail to me directly if this is a "beat up" topic. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 19:03:05 +0300 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jan Tempelman Organization: Home Subject: Polystyrene Nuc MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Photos of the polystyrene Apidea nuc with aluminium frames on http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/AluApidea.html greeting, jan ------------------------------------------------- home of the drone frame method. de darreraat methode ------------------------------------------------- http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/index3.html Jan Tempelman / Ineke Drabbe | mailto:jtemp@xs4all.nl Sterremos 16 3069 AS Rotterdam, The Netherlands Tel/Fax (SOMETIMES) XX 31 (0)10-4569412 ------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 23:16:15 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Musashi Subject: Re: HELP !!! Need Advice on Live Capture of Skunk You could try raw fish entrails as bait for the skunk. I've known skunks that liked to eat those. I wouldn't doubt that a number of things would probably work as well. Good luck. Layne Westover College Station, Texas ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 09:37:46 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: JRmintin Subject: Re: Swarm Cells Already! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit i have only three hives which produced very well. over the winter here in Wisconsin it gets very cold and in late January i went out to check on the bees and there were a couple of thousand laying on top of the snow. now i notice very little action in the hives. is it time to start over and why were all these bees out of the hive in the middle of winter? thanks for any help you can give sincerely Jerry Rothenhoefer ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 09:24:06 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Dead bees on the snow in January MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT JRmintin wrote: > ... winter ... cold ... late January ... a couple of thousand laying > on top of the snow.... CLASSIC TEXT BOOK SYMPTOMS of a the final demise of a hive due to tracheal mites. Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 06:26:12 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: beta-blockers Comments: To: Michael Palmer In-Reply-To: <354CFCCF.851ED1D9@together.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sun, 3 May 1998, Michael Palmer wrote: > Some time age, there was a discussion about anti-inflamatories causing a > reaction to bee stings. I have a daughter on a beta-blocker (atenolol). > Does anyone know if beta-blockers can cause a similar reaction? mike > Hi Mike, I take atenolol myself and have had no problem. My Dr. knows about me being a beekeeper and has not told me of a negative affect with bee stings.I have been stung a few hundred times since I started taking antenolol. Best Regards Roy ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 08:21:37 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Frank Fox Subject: HELP !!! Need Advice on Live Capture of Skunk -Reply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain you were on the right track with the cat food (wet, i asssume). if you REALLY want to catch a skunk in a live trap, open a can of tuna fish & leave it in there. you may catch more coons & possums along the way, but eventually you'll get what you want...and perhaps a bit more! good luck. frank fox nashville, tn ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 09:47:33 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: FAITHAB Subject: Re: African beekeepers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Dear African beekeepers, I will be visiting my daughter in Bukavu, Rep. of Congo for a week in September and then will be in Nairobi, Kenya for a day or two (also have to do an overnight in Entebbee, Uganda to get from one to the other). Are there any beekeepers in those locations who might let me see "how its done" in those countries? I won't be able to bring over my bee suit (30 lbs is all I'm allowed) but, if you've an extra, and I can figure out how to get to you, I'd love to visit, if I've time. Thanks. Faith Andrews Bedford, Ivy, Virginia and Tampa Florida, USA (beekeeper since l980 of - at times- up to l5 hives). ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 09:18:17 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Musashi Subject: Replacement Queen Temperament I have read, heard, and experienced to a degree that a supersedure or swarm replacement queen can raise very defensive bees and the hive can become difficult to work. I have several questions related to this. If the offspring of the mother queen are gentle, why shouldn't the offspring of the daughter of a gentle mother be gentle too? Is the temperament of the offspring determined by the genetics of the drone(s)? What sort of temperament should I expect from the offspring of a replacement Midnite queen or a replacement Buckfast queen, and why? (if anyone can tell me) What if a new Buckfast queen from a gentle mother mates with several Carniolan (or Italian for that matter) drones that are also from gentle hives, what should I expect? Or do I just have to wait and see what happens? So how is it that queen breeders are able to raise gentle queens resulting in gentle workers? (Maybe it's a secret?) Layne Westover College Station, Texas ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 11:29:18 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: HELP !!! Need Advice on Live Capture of Skunk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Al, Eggs work. I use eggs to capture skunks- it only takes one egg-, peanut butter for raccoons (which also catches skunks, cats and birds), and still looking for the best bait for woodchuck, although I did catch one with lobster. After you catch the skunk, approach the trap with a blanket in front of you and cover the trap and skunk. Take it where you intend to release it. Pull the blanket up in front of you, open the trap and back away quickly. They usually saunter off, but I have had a few look me over and think about spraying. They never did. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME Al Needham wrote: > So..try a couple of eggs. Be interested > if they work, let us know. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 15:26:49 GMT+0100 Reply-To: Anthony.Morgan@iet.hist.no Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Anthony Morgan Organization: HiST/AIN/IET Subject: bee bob MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hei! Has anyone come across the expression "bee bob"? I hav efound it in a number of glossaries, for example one includes the entry:-- bee bob = attira sciame - italian = attire-essaim - french = llamaenjambres - spanish This would appear from the french to to mean a lure or bait for swarms. But "bee bob"??? Please email direct as I only receive Bestof Bee. cheers Anthony Morgan Trondheim, Norway ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 13:59:25 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Midnitebee Subject: EAS schedule/workshop MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings! I have a schedule/workshop menu for the 1998 EAS Conference located HERE:http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee Also, you will "find" the "Welcome" letter. Herb(Midnitebee) Holly-B Apiary P.O.Box 26 Wells,Maine 04090-0026 http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 16:27:02 AST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: LORNE CROZIER Subject: Pollination Problem I have recently had a request for help from a local greenhouse grower. This operator uses bumble bee colonies to pollinate his tomato and cucumber crops. He ahs been using these for about four years now and has had good success until recently. The colonies that he purchased in 1998 do not seem to be anxious to leave their hives to work the crops. As a result his pollination rate is low. I would apprectiate any suggestions as to what may be the cause of the problem, and any practical solutions. Many Thanks! Lorne Crozier Mr. Lorne M. Crozier Extension Entomologist, Berry Crops & Vegetables Nova Scotia Dept. Agriculture & Marketing e-mail LCrozier@gov.ns.ca Phone 902-893-6548 Fax 902-893-0244 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 13:43:35 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Cinco De Mayo en Los Banos, BEE-LIST Comments: To: Ellen Bradshaw In-Reply-To: <01bd7718$0a6a48e0$1ff02bce@psnw.com.psnw.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:49 PM 5/3/98 -0700, you wrote: > > DB> Very nice web page.I also like all Brians pictures! keep up the good > work. > DB> David Bradshaw Hi David, & Bee Keeping Friends, With kind words like that I Welcome you and yours to revisit the OLd Drone's Beekeeping Information web pages FREE of cost to you less your own time. Its almost the Cinco de Mayo in Los Banos, in Espanol this translates to the 5th of May in the Bath Rooms which should give you an idea of what the early travelers thought about this area. This has nothing to do with beekeeping but if you have read this far it sure worked to get you to this hype for the OLd Drones Beekeeping Information web site, didn't it! Please note that the BNEWS on page two which up grades as real time news is received from other beekeepers and all beekeepers are invited to e-mail me any news on beekeeping conditions their own area for consideration. The OLd Drone has also been busy setting up a real live BEE CAM page that is now working, catch as catch can. Check it out! If you know of a BEE CAM not listed on this page please let me know. The OLd Drones web pages contain much wild JAVA code, lots of graphics some borrowed some stolen, a few orginal animated graphics, (sorry about all that) and are best viewed with the latest greatest NETCAPE v.4, will work with IEv.4 with some errors reported to viewers. Can't say how it looks to all others to which I apologize for my own lack of experience as a webmaster, but you can be assured as I learn this new beekeeping skill I will include in ALL flavors of browsers so all can enjoy the experience of my personal efforts at passing beekeeping gas to the masses. Plus a little useful real time information for real time bee keepers. ttul, the OLd Drone http://beenet.com (c)Permission is given to copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 13:53:25 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: Pollination Problem In-Reply-To: <39DC2C23199@cadmin.nsac.ns.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 04:27 PM 5/4/98 -0400, you wrote: >I have recently had a request for help from a local greenhouse >grower. This operator uses bumble bee colonies to pollinate his >tomato and cucumber crops. He ahs been using these for about four >years now and has had good success until recently. The colonies that >he purchased in 1998 do not seem to be anxious to leave their hives >to work the crops. As a result his pollination rate is low. I am not a BUMBLE BEE expert but the first thing I would want to know about is any changes in lighting conditions in that green house from last year to this year. >I would apprectiate any suggestions as to what may be the cause of >the problem, and any practical solutions. I would fist look for a new source of BB's, then I would try to increase the amount of light in the green house and hope that gets the lazy BB's out to work. I would also look at the seed source as if the plants produce no rewards for the bees then all the above is wasted effort. Again I am not a BUMBLE BEEMAN. If I were you would not bee getting this information for free. ttul, the OLd Drone http://beenet.com (c)Permission is given to copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 13:06:25 -0700 Reply-To: robert@objectdata.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert MacKimmie Subject: Flight canceled after bee found in jet Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 4.2mach v148) Looks like we all have PR work to do now ... Posted at 6:33 a.m. PDT Monday, May 4, 1998 Flight canceled after bee found in jet TOKYO (AP) -- A bee loose in the cabin of a Japan Airlines jet eluded its captors for so long that officials at New Chitose Airport in northern Japan canceled the flight, a newspaper reported today. Ground attendants discovered the bee on board the jet as they were readying it for departure to the central Japanese city of Nagoya, a JAL spokesman said today on condition of anonymity. Canceling a flight because of a bee was a first, the spokesman said. The bee eluded attendants who tried to capture it for such a long period that officials at the airport, on the island of Hokkaido, 475 miles north of Tokyo, scrubbed the flight out of fear the bee might cause panic among passengers or an allergic reaction among anyone stung. Passengers were reassigned to another flight to Nagoya. The bee, sprayed with insecticide, was caught about an hour later. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 18:32:49 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Diane Boller Subject: Queenless package bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Thanks for this wonderful list. I installed a package two weeks ago. I can't find a queen and there seems to be no brood. Is it too late to get another queen? I'm expecting another package with a queen (late, I know) the week of May 11. What should I do? Thanks so much! Diane Boller ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 19:53:21 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Moth Ball fumes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All I searched the archives, but I couldn't find anything about the fumes from moth balls, Naphthalene particularly. Are they poisonous to bees? Thanks, Ian Watson ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 21:12:24 -0700 Reply-To: jcbach@yvn.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: James C Bach Subject: Replacement queen temperment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Musashi asks about what determines the temperament of a queen or bees which are daughters of a gentle queen, and what to expect from Midnites, and Buckfast offspring. A drone is a direct descendant of the queen and has all of her characteristics. A daughter queen being from a fertilized worker egg is the offspring of the queen and the drone or drones with which she mated. Since the queen can be mated by as many as 15 drones, according to the books, her daughters will reflect some of the genetics of one or more drones. Midnites are four-way crosses of Caucasian queens and are actually hybrids. Hybrids, and the daughters of Midnites, will lose their gentleness in the first or second generation. Experience confirms this. I'm not so sure about Buckfasts because the ones I've purchased didn't last long enough to requeen themselves. From testimonials I've heard from many beekeepers over the years, I'd say to expect ill tempered bees in the first generation. I think you will probably wait and see because there are a lot of genetic influences which can't entirely be predicted. Queen breeders can raise gentle stock, sometimes, because of many years of selecting for that trait. Sometimes the stock isn't so gentle not because of genetics but because of colony environment (skunks, high temperature, hive location, lack of a honey flow, robbing in the apiary causing defensive behavior) and sometimes because of forage environments like bees foraging on mint at 90-100 F. They are mean when foraging peppermint or spearmint. That might also happen on other plants in the mint family. I don't know for sure. James C. Bach Yakima WA jbach@agr.wa.gov jcbach@yvn.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 20:46:02 -0700 Reply-To: jcbach@yvn.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: James C Bach Subject: Moth balls, Napthalene MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ian asks about the use of this formulation of Moth Balls. Technically speaking the only formulation which is labeled for bees is the Mann Lake product which is in a crystalline form. I find it less desirable than the Moth Cake which is sold for use in garment bags etc., because it evaporates too quickly and you have to replace the product to ensure protection from moths. The Cake is a 2.25 oz. cake of 99+ percent Paradychlorobenzene just like Mann Lake's product. One cake can protect a stack of six deeps over our winter here and still have 1/2 cake left in March. This cake is sold in two forms, one of which has Napthalene in it. DO NOT USE NAPTHALENE. It contaminates the combs and kills bees! James C. Bach Yakima WA jbach@agr.wa.gov jcbach@yvn.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 22:20:23 -0400 Reply-To: john.kriz@snet.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "John J. Kriz" Subject: New Beekeeper Needs Help MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 1) Installed 3# Starline package last weekend. Went well. Checked this weekend just passed and comb was being drawn, pollen gather, but no brood at all and could not locate queen. Is she dead/flown away? Should I worry? 2) When should I treat hive with Apistan & Fumidil? Thanks all ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 21:58:53 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Kel Landrith Subject: Re: Queenless package bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Diane, I would wait another week or so before giving up. I say this assuming you are starting from bare foundation. I have found the bees need a few days to draw comb before the queen begins to lay. I have found that 3 weeks before I find eggs is, at least for me, typical. Good luck, Kel ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 17:03:39 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: Flight canceled after bee found in jet Comments: To: robert@objectdata.com In-Reply-To: <9805042006.AA00262@objectdata.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:06 PM 5/4/98 -0700, you wrote: >Posted at 6:33 a.m. PDT Monday, May 4, 1998 >Flight canceled after bee found in jet >TOKYO (AP) -- A bee loose in the cabin of a Japan Airlines jet eluded its >Looks like we all have PR work to do now ... I think not,....those GODZELLA bees are big as a baseball and can see in the dark. If it was one of those disappearing and now rare Japanese honeybees all that was needed was to darken the cabin interior and smash the little bugger when she landed on the winder, hit her twice to be sure and kill any Vampire mites hitching on her. If it was dark outside you would apply some exterior lighting with the cabin darkened. For such a hint I would expect the JAPAN Airlines to send me a round way ticket to a destination of my choice as this little practical knowledge would have saved them thousands of yen or yang and the loss of face from such a dumb stunt. Its easy to see why their economy is about to crash.... what a waste! Must be a slow news day in Japan, not new deadly earthquakes or tidle waves. ttul, the OLd Drone (c)Permission is given to copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 11:42:50 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Trapping Skunks MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Thanks to everyone for all the great skunk advice. For the record, the guy who asked the original question signed off the list the same day he asked the question. Aaron Morris - thinking something stinks about this thread! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 11:18:00 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Thoswhoyt Subject: Getting Box into Hive / Advise for Newbees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I received four boxes of Bees on Saturday. They had been mailed from Georgia to mid-Illinois (USA). I wasn't able to get them installed on Sunday due to weather - and my "job" requires me to work on Sunday morning (since I'm the pastor they do want me to be there most Sundays ). I was able to get them out on Monday late afternoon. For the info of newbees - that's about as long as you want to keep bees waiting to get into a hive. The little water can was almost empty when I took it out. I was also reminded that bees do NOT like to be manipulated after DARK. Durn. One of 'em got me right in the ankle. Ouch. TWH Decatur, IL ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 11:35:09 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Greg Hankins Subject: Swarm Returns to Hive Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Had an interesting swarm experience weekend before last. I found a swarm clustered in a low bush near my hives. I had a pretty godd idea of the hive from which they came and confirmed my suspicion by flouring a few bees from the swarm and dropping them in front of the hive. Sure enough, they all returned to the suspect hive. Following a Richard Tayler suggestion from a Bee Culture, I moved the the hive that threw the swarm on down the line and hived the swarm in the location of the hive from whence it came. The idea is to let the field workers join up with the swarm and make lots of honey. Then I went through the hive that threw the swarm and destroyed all remaining queen cells (which may not have been a good idea). No sooner had I finished my labors than I found another swarm in the air. After these settled, I put them in a new hive. I figured they must be swarming with a new queen that had already emerged in the original swarm hive. I returned half an hour or so later to the apiary to find the second swarm abandoning the hive I had given them and apparently rejoining the hive from whence they came! My theory is that destroying all the queen cells left the swarmy hive with only the one young queen that departed with the second swarm. Once they were gone, the hive was queenless. Somehow, this fact was recognized by the second swarm, which then went back home. The question I have is: How did the second swarm figure this out? And why, once they'd left the hive in a swarm, did they prefer their old home to the nice new one I had provided? As someone said, "Bees are a chancy thing!" Greg ______________________________________________________________ Greg Hankins Montgomery Packaging ghankins@ac.net Troy, North Carolina Voice: (910)576-0067 Fax: (910)576-0367 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 11:45:21 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Greg Hankins Subject: Re: Swarms and Nucs In-Reply-To: <8f7e729f.3549c97b@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > How successfull is taking a hive full of swarm cells and dividing >it into 3 >or 4 nucs depending on the brood and number of cells available? Tom, I split one hive into three 4-5 weeks ago after losing one swarm from the hive and finding plenty of nice queen cells left. Needless to say, with the first swarm already departed, I was working with a smaller population of bees when doing the split, but I had plenty of sealed brood to work with. The results have been good - all three hive have laying queens. I fed them for two weeks, until the clover bloomed, but now I'm letting them build up on the spring flow. Greg ______________________________________________________________ Greg Hankins Montgomery Packaging ghankins@ac.net Troy, North Carolina Voice: (910)576-0067 Fax: (910)576-0367 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 11:56:13 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pollinator Subject: Re: Swarm Returns to Hive Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/5/98 11:49:22 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ghankins@AC.NET writes: << My theory is that destroying all the queen cells left the swarmy hive with only the one young queen that departed with the second swarm. Once they were gone, the hive was queenless. Somehow, this fact was recognized by the second swarm, which then went back home. The question I have is: How did the second swarm figure this out? And why, once they'd left the hive in a swarm, did they prefer their old home to the nice new one I had provided? >> It may not be that complicated. Swarms frequently return to the hive all on their own. I had one do this a couple days ago. They were clustered on the ground, and I gave them a hive to waltz into. Instead they returned to the parent hive. I fully expected them to swarm again, so I went into the parent hive and split it. They had about a dozen swarm cells, all chewed (ready to hatch), but none open. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 11:17:50 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Thoswhoyt Subject: Re: HELP !!! Need Advice on Live Capture of Skunk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit We used to catch 'em in a steel trap. The trap was always attached (chained) to a long pole. If you can pick up the pole - with the trap and skunk on the other end - and get in down into a large quantity of water - you'll know that the skunk is of no more threat when the last stinkin' bubble rises. Of course, my method does involve the death of the skunk. I have absoulely NO use for a live skunk. TWH Decatur, IL ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 17:05:05 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Bee bobs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi All A member of the list requested information on the above sent directly to his e mail address. Since it may be of interest to others, I show it below. Please let me have comments on whether it is worth trying. I have copied the following details on a bee bob from 'A Manual of Beekeeping' by E B Wedmore. I have not tried it yet. 'A bee bob is used to persuade a swarm to settle in a place convenient to the beekeeper. A ball of worsted, made to resemble a small cluster or a small fragrant piece of old comb, is secured in a situation near the hive, suited to the convenience both of the bees and the beekeeper. It may be noted that there is a tendency for a swarm to settle where a previous swarm has settled, not only because the spot is found convenient but probably through an odour remaining, and sometimes wax deposited. A good form of bee bob consists of a board of a size to cover the top of a brood chamber, with hooks on its edge for suspension with cord from a convenient branch and having the bob proper fixed on its under side. This may consist of one or two short strips of comb, glued to the board, or a piece of rough oak bark giving a good foothold, the bark being smeared with a solution made as in the next paragraph, from old comb. If wax is used, the board should be stored when not in use with the wax freely exposed to the light to save it from wax moth. When the swarm has settled, the board is unhooked and the swarm carried away for hiving. If the board has a large hole near the bee bob it may be placed with the swarm on an empty hive, and a body with frames of foundation placed on top and covered over. The bees will soon run up. Preparation of solution. The part of a comb next the top bar contains propolis added to strengthen the comb where the strain on it is greatest. This part is the most aromatic and smells also of honey and of brood. Some such old comb should be broken up and boiled in a little water. This preparation gives an odour highly attractive to bees and if smeared over the inside of skeps or box hives fitted with foundation serves to attract swarms. [End of quotation from Wedmore] (The above was written many years ago, and beekeepers would now probably use Swarm Lures, which are a chemical distillation of certain bee pheremones secreted by the Nasanov gland.) Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland e mail cssl@iol.ie Tel + 353 1 289 5269 Fax + 353 1 289 9940 'The Beeman from Ireland' ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 11:58:42 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Nick Shilliff Subject: cell builders for queen raising Greetings Beekeeps I would like your input, based on your experience,on which type of cell builder works best-swarm box type or cells in the top box over a queen excluder with the queen in the bottom box or a full size queenless colony.I am in upstate NY and planning 20 cells at a time. Thanks Nick Shilliff _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 18:27:53 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tom Speight Subject: Re: bee bob In-Reply-To: <07465590714456@systronix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <07465590714456@systronix.net>, Excerpts from BEE-L writes >This would appear from the french to to mean a lure or bait for >swarms. But "bee bob"??? According to an old book I read recently. the French used to thread a 'bob' of dead bees together and hang them up as a swarm lure. A bob is a small knot as in bobbed hair, or weight as in plumb-bob -- Tom Speight ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 11:44:38 -0700 Reply-To: jcbach@yvn.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: James C Bach Subject: Queen in reserve MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aarcher asks about how to keep an extra queen in a cage. I have kept queens for extended periods of time in the following manners: 1. Use thumb tacks to cover the corks and candy ends of the cages so that bees do not chew out the cork or candy and release the queens. Lay the cages screenside up on top of a queen excluder placed over the second story of a hive containing at least 15 combs covered with bees. Cut down an old super to make a 1.5 inch rim. Place the rim on top of the excluder and cover with the hive cover. Use a gentle colony if available. Use queens according to the date they were put in the queen bank hive - oldest ones first. 2. Combine two weak colonies putting one colony with their queen and any eggs and uncapped larvae below an excluder in the bottom box of a two story hive. Put the second - queenless colony and any capped and emerging brood into the second box of the hive and place the extra queen cages directly on the top bars of the second box of the hive. Put a 1.5 inch rim on top of the hive and replace the hive cover. Feed the colonies a one to one sugar/water solution with Fumidil-B to reduce the Nosema levels in the shipped queens, her attendants, and the nurse bees that will make the royal jelly queen food. Actually, I prepare the queen bank colony by feeding the Fumidil-B at least three times to the colony prior to using it as a queen bank. I pour the warm syrup directly on the bees to get as many bees wet as possible so they each lick each other off and ingest some of the medication. The last feeding is done immediately prior to placing the extra queens into the bank. Feeding Fumidil-l has been known to increase queen acceptance by 25 to 50 percent. James C. Bach Yakima WA jbach@agr.wa.gov jcbach@yvn.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 15:34:33 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "A.S.CHESNICK" Organization: LPA Subject: Re: HELP !!! Need Advice on Live Capture of Skunk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Frozen grasshoppers ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 17:59:05 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "beekeeping.miningco.com" Hi everyone, I just wanted to say "Thank You" to everyone, for all your great suggestions and for visiting my site. I hope you will visit often. If you come up with any more comments, links, or suggestions, please feel free to send them my way. Thanks again for all your help. Sherry Medders beekeeping.guide@miningco.com http://beekeeping.miningco.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 16:51:24 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: DuctManJRV Subject: Re: Trapping Skunks / CHANGED SCREEN NAME Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I didn't leave; I changed my email address and signed back onto the listserv. Thank-you everyone for the advice.... I'm trying them all... I'll catch that "stinker" one of these days. John ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 18:40:26 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CSlade777 Subject: Replacement queen temperament Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit It depends on the drones your replacement queen mates with. If some of the drones are from a different race or sub species of honeybee e.g. ligustica, carnica, mellerifera the heterosis or "hybrid vigour" effect of the progeny may show itself in bad temper even though the drones may come from good tempered stock. Some commercially produced queens with good tempered workers are notorious for having bad tempered grand daughters. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 21:40:48 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Greg Zujus Subject: Queen Cells I recently installed a 3# package of bees (4-18-98) into a new hive. The bees were slow to release the queen, releasing her 6 days after hiving them. Upon her release she immediately began to lay and created a nice brood pattern on one half of a frame. Subsequent checks of this hive I could not locate any additional eggs or other queenly activity. Today I opened the hive and discovered at least a dozen queen cells on the face of one frame. Most of the cells contained larvae and one contained a newly laid egg. Now I do not believe the hive intends to swarm as they still have 4 frames of foundation they have not touched. This only leaves supersedure. I have not seen the queen recently however the presence of the new egg in the queen cell indicates she is still present within the hive. Should I leave the cells and allow the hive to re- queen themselves? Or should I destroy all the cells and see if the existing queen improves ? ____________________________________________ GJZ@MSN.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 22:09:03 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: DNBrown Subject: Laying Worker(s)?? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi BEE-L! I am new to the list, but what I have seen so far looks pretty good! Any suggestions on laying workers? One of my hives may have this problem. I cannot find a queen but I have eggs, and some drones in worker cells. The XYZ-s' book suggests destroying the bees and starting over, but this seems rather drastic! Doug Brown ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 23:30:08 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK Subject: Re: Laying Worker(s)?? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit The ABC & XYZ is an outdated book for 1998, but in the case of laying workers, it is good info. If you CANNOT find the queen, find SCATTERED eggs, find MULTIPLE eggs in the same cell, you are time, frustration, and money ahead to destroy and start over. Because of MITES, viruses, and public fear of bees because of AHB, a book written more than about 5 years ago is out of date. The best beginner's book written just re-appeared in a new printing 2 weeks ago by Dr. Diana Sammanturo. EVERY beekeeper should have on his desk the revised 1992 version of The Hive and the Honey Bee. Contact LJCONNOR@ aol.com for both of them Good Luck! George ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 23:19:10 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK Subject: Re: Queen Cells Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Greg: You have a major problem, and it is NOT swarming. Are you sure the cells of the face of the comb are emergency cells rather than drone cells? When a hive becomes queenless (as yours is), the bees will usually pick just one or maybe 2 larvae to convert to queens in Emergency Cells on the comb face. However, if you had a laying worker, she would scatter eggs around rather than in a pattern, and of course these unfertilized eggs can only develop into drones. You installed these bees on 4/18 which is 17 days ago. Almost half of your purchased bees are already dead; and the rest will all be dead in about 3-4 weeks. Even if you got a new queen tomorrow, I doubt that there will be enough bees to nurse the queen's new brood. This group of bees is not worth saving, better to start over with all new fresh stock. You did not mention any sugar syrup. Are you feeding 1:1 syrup? Too many beekeepers fail to give bees a good start by feeding them continuously for 2-3 months. This is the best I can say with the meager information you wrote. Good Luck! George ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 00:57:17 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Billy Whitener Subject: hive prices MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello I am just starting in Beekeeping and have several hives i started from packages...I was just contacted by an individual who has several established hives he wants to sell....What would be a fair price to offer for these hives(in US dollars)? thanks for any help B. Whitener ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 00:05:07 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pollinator Subject: Re: Laying Worker(s)?? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/5/98 11:14:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dnbrown@MA.ULTRANET.COM writes: << Any suggestions on laying workers? One of my hives may have this problem. I cannot find a queen but I have eggs, and some drones in worker cells. The XYZ-s' book suggests destroying the bees and starting over, but this seems rather drastic! Doug Brown >> If it is a failing queen, it will usually have one or two eggs at the bottom of each cell, some of which develop into small drones. If it is laying workers, there may be many eggs, attatched about half way down on the sides of the cells. It is tricky to requeen these, especially with laying workers. If they haven't gone downhill too far, I'd give them a couple frames of brood from a good hive, making sure there are eggs in some cells. They will most likely raise a queen. If they have dwindled down a lot, or the bees are old, greasy looking bees, just set the hive on top of a good one, as a super. I have also sometimes set a good nuc in the place of it, changing them from a 4 or 5 frame box into a ten frame. Then I carry the hive twenty or thirty feet away, and shake the bees onto the ground. Most of them will fly back and join with the nuc. Reputedly the laying workers will not. At any rate they are unlikely to hurt the queen in the nuc. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 19:02:52 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Midnitebee Subject: additions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings! Three new articles located at http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee 1)George Imirie's "Swarming in May and June" 2)Diseases & Procedures for Abatement of Regulated Pests 3)Maine Apiary Laws Herb(Midnitebee) Holly-B Apiary P.O.Box 26 Wells,Maine 04090-0026 http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 23:30:30 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pollinator Subject: Re: Queen Cells Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/5/98 10:25:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, gjz@EMAIL.MSN.COM writes: << Now I do not believe the hive intends to swarm as they still have 4 frames of foundation they have not touched. This only leaves supersedure. I have not seen the queen recently however the presence of the new egg in the queen cell indicates she is still present within the hive. Should I leave the cells and allow the hive to re- queen themselves? Or should I destroy all the cells and see if the existing queen improves ? >> The bees know best. The queen is no good. She is either poorly mated (perhaps she tried on a rainy day, or there just weren't enough drones), or maybe got chilled enroute to you. When they begin capping her brood, you will have another clue, as they may put on drone caps on some cells, showing that the queen has insufficient sperm stored away - a drone layer. The cells they raise are from desperation. You can take a chance on them, as they *might* get a useable queen, or you can requeen. Don't expect the existing queen to improve. If you requeen, it would help if you can add a frame of sealed brood from another hive. That will give you young bees that improve the chance of acceptance of the new queen. The longer you wait, the older your bees are, and the greater the chance of killing an introduced queen. You might even just add a frame of brood from a good hive, making sure there are at least a few eggs, so they can have eggs that are more likely to be good ones. Chances are that they will raise a better queen from the imported frame than they could themselves. And there will be no problem with acceptance of a queen they hatch out themselves. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 08:42:38 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter Subject: Taxing the bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I would much like to see some discussion of income taxes as related to beekeeping-sometimes a hobby beekeeper breaks even or even makes a profit. Fair market value of a hive or other basis? Do you depreciate queens or expense them? Sooner or later this hobby of mine is gonna break even and considering the usuual tax policy of if it makes money it's a business and if it loses money it's a hobby I want to star thinking ahead. Totally clueless as to beekeeping or agriculture and taxes. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 08:47:07 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Midnitebee Subject: Re: from jeff vance Comments: To: vance@cybertron.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings! well..let me say this about that..since I live in Maine and the summer is VERY short and winters loooong.., The carnies winter very well with a small cluster,doing into winter. I have been fortunate ,so far,these carniolan (queens) lay a fabulous brood pattern,with small amount of drone cells. The carniolans seem to be active at an earlier time in the so called spring(Maine)..I have seen these bees try to collect pollen as early as 5 am.(.in the rain )and the temps were in the very chilly 30"s. Their temperament is mild and their build very little propolis or bur comb. I will be splitting a few hives,and use carniolan queens. My favorite honeybee is the midnites..they have not failed me ,yet. I have two midnite hives that have superceded (third generation)and with all this talk about supercedure 'temperament"..well, I have not witnessed it. Herb THEY ARE DARK GREY/ BLACK >LOOKING BEES. IAM THINKING OF THE THE NEW WORLD CARNOLIANS . GOT ANY ideas? Buckfast? Holly-B Apiary P.O.Box 26 Wells,Maine 04090-0026 http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee -----Original Message----- From: Vance To: midnitebee@cybertours.com Date: Wednesday, May 06, 1998 2:30 AM Subject: from jeff vance >HEY AGAIN . IM FROM MERIDIAN MISS. FIRST YEAR BEEKEEPER . THANKS FOR >ANSWERING SOME QUESTIONS OF MINE IN THE PAST. I HAVE ONE MORE IF YOU >DONT MIND . I WAS WONDERING WHAT YOU CAN TELL ME ABOUT THE NEW WORLD >CARNOLIANS. I AM LIKE YOU I HAVE ONE OF NEARLY EVERY KIND IN MY YARD . I >HAVE 7 HIVES NOW. AND I NEED TO REQUEEN A ESTABLISHED HIVE A GOT FROM A >MAN. HE NOR I DONT KNOW WHAT KIND THEY ARE . >ADVICE . I HAVE A MIDNITE HIVE AND JUST REQUEENED WITH ANOTHERONE TODAY. >I LOVE THE CALMNESS OF THEM. THEY ARE GREAT. WELL THANKS ALOT. OH BYE >THE WAY IM DOING THE ESSENTIAL OILS AND LOVE IT . BEES SEEM TO ME NOT AS >SLUGGISH . THANKS FOR ALL THE IMFO. ON YOUR PAGE. THANKS FOR DOING IT. >BYE FOR NOW JEFF :) > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 14:21:48 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Testing for Queenlessness Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi All I examined one of my hives recently and could not see any brood or eggs. I suspect queenlessness so I inserted a test frame with eggs and larva to see if queen cells are raised. I will examine the hive again shortly. What I am wondering about is, that if there were laying workers in a hive, would queen cells be raised on a test frame?. Would the bees take the advantage presented to them to raise a queen, or would the presence of laying workers give them the impression that they already had a queen?. Looking forward to responses. Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland e mail cssl@iol.ie Tel + 353 1 289 5269 Fax + 353 1 289 9940 'The Beeman from Ireland' ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 08:50:02 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Keeler, Lisa" Subject: Re: Queen Cells Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: FGMO Viscosity or Specs. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anyone know the viscosity of the food grade mineral oil used by Dr. R.? We are trying to get a bulk price on it from a dealer but have no idea what the viscosity is. Anyone order in bulk? What did you specify for the oil? When I get the info, I will post the price quotes here. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 10:42:36 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: RICHARD BARNES Subject: Re: Taxing the bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" If it makes enough money that you start to feel guilty, talk to a CPA about what you will need to do. Each state/country has different laws and here in Oklahoma, sales tax is complicated by the fact of where you sell the product. Health codes for packaging are different in different areas and product liability insurance is another problem all together. Income tax may be the easiest part of the whole thing. Basis in a hive is what you paid for the hive. I always expense the queens. Expense everything possible (sec 179 depreciation will let you deduct about everything in the year purchased, for small producers) One of the best sources of information would be to find the local beekeepers association and join. Many of the people you will meet will be able to hive you "first hand" knowledge. Richard Barnes, C.P.A. rbarnes@halnet.com Duncan, OK, 73533 At 08:42 AM 5/6/98 EDT, you wrote: > I would much like to see some discussion of income taxes as related to >beekeeping-sometimes a hobby beekeeper breaks even or even makes a profit. > > Fair market value of a hive or other basis? > Do you depreciate queens or expense them? > > Sooner or later this hobby of mine is gonna break even and considering the >usuual tax policy of if it makes money it's a business and if it loses money >it's a hobby I want to star thinking ahead. > >Totally clueless as to beekeeping or agriculture and taxes. > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 09:50:04 -0700 Reply-To: jcbach@yvn.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: James C Bach Subject: Hive prices MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Billy Whitener wants to know what would be a fair price to offer for hives of bees. There are several things to consider before you think about the value of a hive: 1. How old are the hive bodies, tops and bottoms? 2. How old are the frames and combs? 3. Were the colonies requeened recently? 4. What is the level of Honey Bee Tracheal Mites(HBTM) in the bees? 5. What is the level of Varroa in the colony? 6. When were the colonies last treated for mites? 7. What chemicals were used to treat for mites? 8. Does the comb contain residues of American Foulbrood? 9. Why does the beekeeper want to sell the hives? 10. How many combs of bees are in the hive? 11. How badly do you want more hives? 12. How much are you willing to pay, and perhaps lose? These questions all determine the ultimate value of the hives of bees. The value range may be from nothing to about $75.00 for a two story deep hive, $100 for a three story. If the colonies were not treated for mites last fall or this spring, or were improperly treated, the colonies may suffer extensive mite damage in late summer when the honey flow ends. If this occurs you will have paid for little or nothing. The value is mostly in the bees unless the equipment is under six years old, and if you want to increase your number of hives. If the equipment, frames and comb are over ten years old, and or damaged, the value would be in the bees; provided they have been treated for mites. At 60 F. one comb completely covered with bees will have about a pound of bees. Estimate the number of combs of bees, multiply by the average price per pound for advertized packaged bees (less the queen value), and you have a fair value for the bees. If the equipment including frames and combs are under ten years old, the bees have been properly treated for mites, the mite levels are 10 percent for HBTM, and Varroa was treated with Apistan last fall or this spring, for two story hives containing 15 combs of bees, use a starting price of $40 and negotiate upward to reach an agreed upon price with the seller. Top price would be about $75. Additional supers depending on their age may be valued between $8 and $20. You could even pay new price if the equipment is one to three years old and properly assembled and painted. James C. Bach Yakima WA jbach@agr.wa.gov jcbach@yvn.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 13:07:20 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: David Eyre Organization: The Bee Works Subject: Re: cell builders for queen raising In-Reply-To: <19980505.115907.3606.1.shilliff@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 5 May 98 at 11:58, Nick Shilliff wrote: > I would like your input, based on your experience,on which type of > cell builder works best-swarm box type or cells in the top box over > a queen excluder with the queen in the bottom box or a full size > queenless colony.I am in upstate NY and planning 20 cells at a time. Over the years we've tried them all. We do find bigger cells, a bigger take and more consistent results with a queenless cell builder. It's easy to arrange. Make up a split with the old queen and as much open brood as possible, move her to a different part of the yard. All the flight bees will return boosting the cell builder, you need as many as possible,bulging would be a good term. We make the cell builder late today, and graft early tomorrow. Feed 1-1 syrup, check for stray cells in 48 hours and again 48 hours later and cut them out. Shake the bees off the frames to get a real good look. One final point. Add a frame of foundation to the box. It will prevent web being formed around the cells. Finally don't be greedy, we use the maximum graft of 45 per builder. If you need more than that, make more cell builders. ******************************************* The Bee Works, 9 Progress Dr, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, L3V 6H1 Phone/fax 705-326-7171 David Eyre, Owner. http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks e-mail ******************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 18:16:13 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CSlade777 Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 4 May 1998 to 5 May 1998 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On the subject of replacement queen temperament James Bach wrote " A daughter queen being from a fertilised worker egg is the offspring of the queen and the drone OR DRONES (my emphasis) with which she mated." James, did you really mean to say this? The implication is that a single egg may be fertilized by more than one sperm which is, I believe, not the usual practice. Perhaps you meant "the offspring of the queen and one of the drones with which she mated" Sorry to be pedantic. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 10:44:00 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Hugo Veerkamp Organization: Amigabee computer networking for beekeepers Subject: about the Apinet MSGID: 240:31/0@beenet 3d8b54a2 PID: FM 2.12.SW UNREG ABOUT THE APINET by John Goodman, Apinet international coordinator and Hugo Veerkamp, Apinet international dial-up network & website April/May 1998 ------ intro Dear Colleague, Apinet now has 70 members who have access to email. There are others, who are still unable to network via the internet and indeed many other eligible persons who may not even know about our network. We are sending the information below about Apinet to you, so that you may from time to time forward it to anyone you feel might be interested in participating. You may even wish to include brief details within your signature at the end of outgoing messages as we do. Perhaps, you have access to beekeeping associations and other organisations which would like to know more about our remit, or to the editors of specialist beekeeping publications who may be interested to pass on the details to their readers? Alternatively, you may know of beekeeping websites which would like to linkup with the Apinet website in Amsterdam. Thanks for your help! ------------------------ apinet extension network Welcome to the Apinet! This dedicated international network has been created to encourage productive and healthy beekeeping by facilitating links between extension workers and others who are interested in advising, educating or training present and future beekeepers. We hope to enable multi-lingual communication on the Apinet - you may use your own language whenever you wish! ---------------------- why do we need apinet? Honey bees are an essential component of the agricultural and wider environment. As beneficial insects, they are vital for the pollination of many crops, as well as producing honey and other bee products for human use. Apinet aims to reduce threats to beekeeping caused by the spread of Varroa and other pathogens. Where significant losses of bees have occurred, many experienced beekeepers have stopped keeping bees. Not enough new beekeepers, especially young people, are being recruited and trained to help or replace those beekeepers who find themselves unable to adapt or cope with new management techniques. --------------------- free apinet services! Apinet provides services for both Advisers and other Readers who are interested in keeping up to date. Full details of the services offered and how to subscribe free of charge can be found on the Apinet website (http://www.inter.nl.net/hcc/beenet/apinet.htm). As well as details of members interests and other useful information, there are also links to other beekeeping sites on the internet. All members automatically receive information by email. Reader members may also ask questions via an Adviser. Members who are Advisers are encouraged to participate in any discussion and to answer questions on beekeeping topics either directly or in collaboration with colleagues. These services provided to Apinet members free of charge at present. The system is operated by volunteers supported by sponsors with beekeeping and extension interests. --------------------- how did apinet arise? Apinet was initiated to satisfy beekeeper education and training needs identified by the CSL and EUROPEA. It is continuing to develop with the help of other like minded organisations and individuals throughout Europe and beyond. With your help, it will evolve into a world wide network with the potential, via the internet, to benefit extension workers and the beekeepers they serve in countries all over the world. If you are interested in Beekeeper Education and Extension, why not use the API-NET to network with colleagues in other countries and organisations, making new contacts, exchanging information and finding out how they are helping beekeepers, farmers and others who depend upon the work of honey bees, to face new challenges. -------------------- who sponsors apinet? The CSL National Bee Unit is part of a UK research agency, the Central Science Laboratory, which works in the area of bee disease control and research and provides an extension service for beekeepers. EUROPEA is the European Agricultural Education Association, an EU based organisation serving the agricultural education and training sector. It enables teachers, students, extension workers and others to collaborate nationally and internationally both in Europe and beyond. ------------------------- does apinet interest you? Although there are Europea Associates in all EU member states, we still do not have beekeeping extension contacts in some countries. We are also looking for more links outside of Europe. If you are interested in joining the net or helping to establish a network in your Country, please contact John Goodman in GB. If you know of others who may be interested in the API-NET, especially in other countries ... please send them this information. Thank you for your help! -------------------------- the Apinet dial-up network To provide additional service to our membership in connected regions, a regional 'dial-up' network is setup, which can not be reached via the internet, but uses its own technology (similar to but indepent of the fidonet). To date there are regional Host systems in the U.K, Holland and Austria, where members can call in to exchange Apinet mail. We also distribute beekeeping software and textfiles via the Apinet dial up network. We are still looking for regional coordinators in other European countries; please do not hesitate to contact us: --------- Addresses Apinet International Coordinator: John Goodman (j.m.goodman@csl.gov.uk) Apinet dial-up network & website: Hugo Veerkamp (hug.bee@net.hcc.nl) CSL National Bee Unit http://www.csl.gov.uk/navf.htm (science@csl.gov.uk) APINET: http:// www.inter.nl.net/hcc/beenet/apinet.htm (hug.bee@net.hcc.nl) EUROPEA: http://europea.org (karl.friewald@noel.gv.at or beu@hlcn.nl) APINET (http://www.inter.nl.net/hcc/beenet/apinet.htm) International Multilingual Extension Network for apiculture sponsored by CSL & EUROPEA promotes productive and healthy beekeeping and links extension workers and others helping to advise, educate or train beekeepers worldwide. CSL NBU (http://www.csl.gov.uk/navf.htm) The National Bee Unit is part of a UK research agency, the Central Science Laboratory, which covers bee disease control and research and provides an extension service for beekeepers. EUROPEA ( http://www.europea.org) European Agricultural Education Association an EU based organisation serving the agricultural education & training sector enabling students, teachers and extension workers to collaborate. John Goodman, Regional Bee Inspector, NE England CSL National Bee Unit, UK Tel/Message:+44 (0)1833 690561 --- APINET-L Towards an international approach to the successful control of Varroa and other bee diseases +++++ +++ + +++ ++ .***....++........ ++ .**.********..++++++++++++.. ** *********** ****************. .*. ********** ***.**************** .**.*..****** .**...*************** ** .* **. *** ********** *. *. *. **** ****** * * ** *** ** . . * **.. ************************************************************************ To subscribe to apinet-L Email: listserv@amigabee.org.uk MSG Body: subscribe apinet-L ************************************************************************ --- FMail/386 1.22+ * Origin: zzz the BEE bbs Amsterdam Holland +31 20 6764105 zzz (240:31/0) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 18:00:45 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John A Skinner Subject: Re: Moth Ball fumes In-Reply-To: <01bd77b7$d1da3120$3e3a05d1@k6200.niagara.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII My understanding is that Moth balls- Napthalene is toxic to bees and must not be used to fumigate for wax moth. The material is adsorbed by the wax and a residual stays there. I know of one beekeeper that thought he had PDB - Para-dichloro-benzene, instead he used Napthalene, He aired the empty dry comb for several days and then installed a package. The package died in a couple days. It was not a good time for him. Live long and pollinate, grins, John John A. Skinner 218 Ellington Hall Extension Apiculturist University of Tennessee jskinner@utk.edu Knoxville, TN 37901 (423)974-7138 On Mon, 4 May 1998, Ian Watson wrote: > Hi All > > I searched the archives, but I couldn't find anything > about the fumes from moth balls, Naphthalene > particularly. Are they poisonous to bees? > > Thanks, > > Ian Watson > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 00:04:28 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pollinator Subject: Re: Testing for Queenlessness Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/6/98 10:41:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time, cssl@IOL.IE writes: << What I am wondering about is, that if there were laying workers in a hive, would queen cells be raised on a test frame?. Would the bees take the advantage presented to them to raise a queen, or would the presence of laying workers give them the impression that they already had a queen?. >> I'm sure the bees know they have no queen. But it requires young bees to raise a new queen. If they have been queenless for quite a while, there will be few young bees. Giving them a frame with only eggs may not stimulate queen cell building. Giving them sealed brood with a few eggs, will give them both the prerequisite bees and the source eggs, so would improve the odds. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 21:00:05 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeemanNick Subject: Pollen Traping Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit how Can I make (city) pollen safe to eat? I am traping it my self at my house. Any ideas will be apricated! thanks inadvance!! NICK BEHRENS Age 14 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 08:11:05 -0500 Reply-To: w_otto@umanitoba.ca Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Warren Otto Organization: The university of Manitoba Subject: Arm Gators??? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have been working with bees for a couple of years now and have never used gloves since I like the feel and control that a bare hand provides. However whenever I get stung on the top of the hand or the wrist it gets quite swollen and my wrist joint looses a fair bit of mobility. This lasts for a couple of days. I should also mention that this only happens on my wrist. I have been stung all over and the only place that I get a bad reaction is the top of the hand/wrist area. My question is does anyone know of a company that makes a protection device that covers the top of the hand and up to the elbow? I have thought about purchasing a set of bee gloves and just cutting out the palm and fingers but then the flap on top of my hand would be loose and a bee could crawl up underneath. My wife says what I am looking for is a leather wedding glove, but I don't know any female bikers that have gotten married recently :-). Any assistance is most appreciated. Warren Otto ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 16:00:11 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jean-Marie Van Dyck Subject: Curing a laying workers colony ! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello all bee-lovers ! Laying workers are really one pitches in an apiary, especially if you make breeding which supports the production of this kind of colonies. If you destroy the colony, the laying workers are completely able to fly and go into a nuc and kill your very young queens in one or the other nuclei less better protected by the few pheromones of this young queen. I know a means which I use since a score of years. Always successfully. The only occasion where the introduced queen was killed, another queen was present. I never published the process. I know pertinently that someone as Mr James C Bach would find that -my article, tests and any results would be said to be ANECDOTAL-. OK, I know, but I have no time, no money (no grant) and I do not want any to carry out a series of complicated experiments (to only create several colonies tests and controls comprising some laying workers) to prove what I know: IT WORKS and even: **it works each time, without fail**: I am certain of it! Moreover, the process is extremely simple and does not require any complicated hardware (a cage with queen and a few grams of candy and some absorbing paper, I use these pieces of paperboard whom one places under beer glasses), no handling of frames nor of bees. OK, I never published them, It will be said to be anecdotal, but IT REALLY WORKS. I don't like it, but today, I could make an exception. Because of Mr. Bach, or in spite of him! It's NOT AN ARTICLE, only the process description ! ======== Requeening a laying worker colony ... MATERIAL: Pay attention please, the process could be changed a little bit. But then without guarantee (anectotic!:-) 1/ a **queenless colony** with laying workers. 2/ a **laying queen** you removed from his own colony JUST BEFORE this treatment. Do not use a queen having travelled or blocked in a cage since one day or two. No matter the qualilies of this queen, BUT it's really better not to use a too young queen, whose laying is not well established (at least 2 months of laying). I use some ordinary one year old queens whom I kept for this only use (queens giving bees to create nucs). 3/ a **queen cage** with some candy (not to much!) 4/ some **absorbing paper** (two beer paperboards) which one will impregnate with the next ... 5/ **alcohol from 10 to 40%** : not much of importance (anecdotal): that goes with simple alcohol, but that also goes with Gin, Whisky and other Bourbons (One can also keep some drops of them for the operator, but that is not really essential to succeed) :-) It is all and within the reach of everyone! METHOD: I say what **I** am doing ! Generally work at the end of the day. (But *always* try to work the bees at the end of the day). 1/ Know the colony IS QUEENLESS : if it's not this case, no problem : it'll end in failure. 2/ Put the laying, established, queen in the cage, with an open way but closed with about 10-15 mm of candy. There can be workers from the giving queen colony (4-5 step more), it can not be. This cage in my pocket. 3/ Prepare two beer paperboards (absorbing paper) in a small plastic bag. Pour 20 to 30 ml of the choosed alcohol in the bag of plastic and let alcohol well impregnate the paper. (Don't drink the rest now, it's not finished !) 4/ Open the queenless colony, not to much smoke please (never). 5/ Deposit the impregnated paperboards on the top of the frames, near the brood area. 6/ Wedge the cage between two brood frames and between the paperboards. 7/ Close again the hive. It is really all. 8/ It's possible to view the queen on her frame the next day but I prefer two days later. After a week of normal queen laying, you'll be able to do no matter what with this colony. But act without forgetting that it only remains very little of young workers in this hive. Copyright 1998 Jean-Marie Van Dyck (Belgium) ======== Test this process and you will be able to speak about it while giving your sources. PS. When I do not have Whisky or other Cognac, I use 30 ml of 27% ethyl alcohol (Why 27%, because it is the concentration obtained by mixing approximately a quarter of alcohol with three quarters of distilled water). But it is worse for the tasting. :-) Jean-Marie F U N D P - Facultes Universitaires Notre-Dame de la Paix 61, rue de Bruxelles B-5000 Namur (BELGIUM) tel +32(81) 72 4234 fax +32(81) 72 4272 Lat.Long. : N:50.30' E:04.56' - Alt. : 200 m - North sea : 200 km _____ Jean-Marie Van Dyck B.P. 102 B-5000 Namur (Belgique-Belgium) tel +32(81) 72 4234 fax +32(81) 72 4272 Lat.Long. : N:50.30' E:04.56' - Alt. : 200 m - North sea : 200 km _____ Forum-lists on Bees and Beekeeping and related Forums-listes sur les Abeilles et autres ... BEE-L on LISTSERV@uacsc2.albany.edu (bees and beekeeping in English) to join them, only send a mail containing : SUBSCRIBE BEE-L BEST-OF-BEE is a distilled "read-only" version of BEE-L (edited mails in English) to receive them, only send email to HONEYBEE@systronix.net saying : JOIN BestOfBee SOCINSCT on LISTSERV@uacsc2.albany.edu (Social Insects in English) to join them, only send a mail containing : SUBSCRIBE SOCINSCT : tres calme ... sauf de temps en temps APIS-L on LISTSERV@LISTS.UFL.EDU (discussion on Apis Monthly Beekeeping Newsletter, U of Florida, in English) to join them, only send a mail containing : SUBSCRIBE APIS-L BEEBREED on LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UOGUELPH.CA (discussion on breeding resistant bees (to mites/diseases), in English) to join them, only send email containing : SUBSCRIBE BEEBREED ABEILLES sur MAJORDOMO@fundp.ac.be (discussion sur les abeilles en francais) pour les rejoindre, envoyer le seul message suivant : SUBSCRIBE ABEILLES pour les quitter, definitivement ou pour quelques jours : UNSUBSCRIBE ABEILLES _____ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 07:38:18 -0700 Reply-To: jcbach@yvn.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: James C Bach Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 4 May 1998 to 5 May 1998 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris Slade: My text wasn't as clear as it should have been. My thinking was more clear than my writing. Of course you are right. A daughter queen may have some of the charachters of her mother and one of the drones that mother mated with. Regards, ---------- > From: CSlade777 > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 4 May 1998 to 5 May 1998 > Date: Wednesday, May 06, 1998 3:16 PM > > On the subject of replacement queen temperament James Bach wrote " A daughter > queen being from a fertilised worker egg is the offspring of the queen and the > drone OR DRONES (my emphasis) with which she mated." James, did you really > mean to say this? The implication is that a single egg may be fertilized by > more than one sperm which is, I believe, not the usual practice. Perhaps you > meant "the offspring of the queen and one of the drones with which she mated" > Sorry to be pedantic. > Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 08:41:41 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Alan Montgomery Subject: Re: Carniolans & Caucasians MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was wondering where your source for both the midnite and carniolan queens are? I live in Minnesota and am ready to requeen three hives. I have ordered from B.weaver in the past (Bukfast and All american), both of which have been good. Although I've been advised from a beekeeper here, that his practice is not to order from Texas and other Southern producers in case of Africanized matings. He orders from California instead, where the incidence of AHB is less frequent. Alan M. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 10:55:28 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Midnitebee Subject: Re: EAS Comments: To: "Ronald J. Bogansky" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >even when it was less than 2 hrs away, but reading about it is getting me >exicited. How does one become a member and what is the fee for the >conference? EAS short courses-$95--beginning July-13-15,1998 If you do not want to attend the short course,you may attend the conference(only)-$30.00 there is a yearly dues of $10.00 call Kathy Summers for a registration form..330-725-6676, Ext. 3215(days)---330-723-2783(evenings) >She really isn't as interested in bees as I am. Actually I am pretty lucky >she puts up with it. We do work our business together, but I do the bee >work. hmmm..let me say something about that!..once you attend one of these EAS meetings..you will return! I have attended the Short courses and the field work and especially the labs were outstanding! The speakers are persons of "Letters"..do not be intimidated by them..ask them all the questions you have.. During the field work..exam hives with a State Apiarists/Masterbeepers..the hives are situated in a way that you need to know their "state of health". I am sending this message to the Bee-L, hope you are not offended. Maybe,someone on the list,who is more eloquent in their writing may want to comment further. Herb ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 08:16:32 -0700 Reply-To: jcbach@yvn.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: James C Bach Subject: Making pollen safe MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nick Behrens asks how to make city pollen safe to eat. I know of several persons in western Washington State who trap pollen but none of them treat their pollen in any manner. I also know of persons producing pollen in other states, in all kinds of environments, without any consideration for making the pollen safe for human consumption. I was told by some importers some years ago when I was researching the source of quantities of pollen, that pollen from Spain was being imported into the US through Canada and that it was treated with Carbon Tetrachloride prior to shipment. I couldn't find out why it was treated or what organisms in the pollen may have been of concern. One entomologist told me that he doesn't recommend people eating pollen: "pollen is for the bees, not humans." I replied that cows milk is for calves not humans. Many people eat pollen produced in western Washington and only a few first time users experience some after-effects. However, if they reduce the amount they take to a few pellets, then gradually increase their dose over a month, they cease to have any ill effects. While quite a bit of research has been done on the vitimin, protein and enzyme content of pollen, I'm not aware of anyone testing the relative purity of pollen, collected in various localities, from environmental contaminates, agricultural chemicals, etc. Maybe someone on the list can point us to some data that will answer the question. Dr. Bromenshenk has done some extensive work using pollen collecting bees as a bioassay method to determine environmental polution. His work indicates that bees bring some level of environmental contaminates back to the hive and into the pollen trap tray. Right Jerry? Common sense seems to say not to trap pollen close to large cities, freeways, or industrial sites if you want to use or sell it for human consumption. But I can't point you to any citation that would support my caution. I would have to do some digging in the literature. While bees do collect the pollen, and apparently use it, there is a negative impact on the colony. Maybe Jerry Bromenshenk can give us some prudent guidelines to follow. James C. Bach Yakima WA jbach@agr.wa.gov jcbach@yvn.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 08:33:52 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: Arm Gators??? Comments: To: w_otto@umanitoba.ca In-Reply-To: <3551B2E9.25A5@umanitoba.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:11 AM 5/7/98 -0500, Warren Otto wrote: >provides. However whenever I get stung on the top of the hand or the >wrist it gets quite swollen and my wrist joint looses a fair bit of >mobility. This lasts for a couple of days. I should also mention that >this only happens on my wrist. I have been stung all over and the only >place that I get a bad reaction is the top of the hand/wrist area. >My question is does anyone know of a company that makes a protection >device that covers the top of the hand and up to the elbow? I have >thought about purchasing a set of bee gloves and just cutting out the >palm and fingers but then the flap on top of my hand would be loose and >a bee could crawl up underneath. Hi Warren, In my bee keeping youth there was a piece of bee dress that I have not seen for years. They were called "bee gauntlet's" and were made by the women out of light colored material such as dill or light weight canvas using a modified shirt sleave pattern. (Don't quote me on the material or dill as that was a long time ago when I was not as attentive to womans work as I should have been.) The material should be washable and not attractive to bees. I am sure that if you look back 50 years you will find pictures and directions for manfacturing these "Arm Gators" or bee keepers arm garters, bee gauntlets, or what ever they were called. Elastic was sawn into the top and bottom and the bottom was fashoned so that your thumb stuck stuck out a hole and your fingers out another. The wrist and palm of the hand were well protected. These were excellent for working queens when full heavy gloves do get in the way. One thing at least in many experiences the swelling from bee stings is normal and will dissaper with more bee stings. Also goes away the itching of the palms and soles of the feet with dramatic tempature changes like going swiming on a hot summers afternoon, but this seems to take longer to go away then the swelling. I learned early that I could not go to school with my eyes closed from a bee sting on the face and used that many times to get a day out of school, mostly on fridays for the long bee keepers week ends. This was one of the perks of being a young bee keepers apprentince. Hope this helps you with your problem. ttul, the OLd Drone http://beenet.com See the 24 hr BEE CAM Help the Bee Pollinate Mite Killer that Works Beekeeping Pictures BEENEWS Interesting URLS Changes every week More to Come ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 18:35:28 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Smoker fuels and residues in honey Hi All I am a bit late reaing all the digests but have seen some nice posts about smoker fuels. Firstly cardboard and possible contaminants from glues - the way to avoid this - use the boxes you get paper in - these are made by companies who recycle paper - they don't want paper building up residues of horrible things and use simple glues of organic nature. Secondly - if that is a problem use egg boxes (not foam ones). Those stodgy papermache type ones. That makes a good dry smoke. Why use cardboard - because anything else will make your honey stink if you have to hard smoke the hive and there is uncapped nectar. REason - lots of easilly vapourised volatiles and tanins and tars that cannot be in paper. Pine needles - wow - as an alternative to carboard one can use the section of the tree that is rich in all sorts of other things. In comparing the smell of pine needles to egg boxes I can immediatly see that the volatiles and tars that will be released and start gumming up my bees and making the honey stink must be less in the cardboard. As proof of this, see how much faster they can be smoked out with pine needles (greater irritant) than cardboard. Other bad things - grass, proccessed grass (cow dung) and burlap - makes a terrible stench that gets into ones cloths, honey and if removing bees, will impregnate furniture in peoples houses. Just a few thoughts. Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis Eastern Cape Prov. South Africa Time = Honey ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 18:29:05 +0200 Reply-To: Michael Haberl Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Haberl Subject: Sperm usage in honey bees Some time ago, I promised to post the Web-address once my article on sperm usage is published: http://link.springer.de/link/service/journals/00265/bibs/8042004/80420247.htm Essentially, I used an observation hive and determined paternity in a number of sequentially laid eggs (total number of 606 eggs in 21 h of observation, or on average 0.48 eggs per minute). The queen has been determined to have mated with 7 males. Following is part of the paternity sequence (each letter represents one subfamily or drone, an X represents an cannibalized egg/larva): .. A B B E A X B A D D E E C C X A X B F X X A B B X X D D A D B A X A C A E B A C E X G C A C C A A F D X B C ... ____________________________________________________________________ Michael Haberl Zoologisches Institut der Uni Muenchen Tel: ++49 89 5902-444 Luisenstr. 14 Fax: ++49 89 5902-450 80333 Muenchen e-mail: haberl@zi.biologie.uni-muenchen.de Germany http://www.ebe-online.de/home/mhaberl/index.htm ____________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 11:02:33 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Midnitebee Subject: Re: Carniolans & Caucasians MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Holly-B Apiary P.O.Box 26 Wells,Maine 04090-0026 http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee - >I was wondering where your source for both the midnite and carniolan >queens are? my comments about my sources is located in "My Humble Opinions" link.. > >I live in Minnesota and am ready to requeen three hives. I have >ordered from B.weaver in the past (Bukfast and All american), both of >which have been good. FWIW-buckfast means "fast buck"..never had any luck with them..nor other beekeepers in Maine. don't be fooled by the "true" Buckfast..unless you plan to fly to the Abbey.. Although I've been advised from a beekeeper >here, that his practice is not to order from Texas and other Southern >producers in case of Africanized matings. He orders from California >instead, where the incidence of AHB is less frequent. My source is Glenn Apiaries and York Bee Also,read the article about the Northern queens..I have an order for his queens in July. Since you live in Minn., your thoughts should be for this "Northern" queen.. Herb ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 10:39:31 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Musashi Subject: Re: Carniolans & Caucasians I have been satisfied with a Carniolan queen I bought from Glenn Apiaries in California and a Midnite queen I got from York Bee Company in Georgia. There are many other sources for these bees. If you have access to the world wide web, Barry Birkey keeps a pretty complete list of bee breeders and queen suppliers at http://www.birkey.com/BLB/Beekeeping/suplybe.html and the home page for Glenn Apiaries is http://member.aol.com/queenb95/web/home.html I'm sure there are a lot of other good (and bad) places to buy the queens you want, but I have been happy with both the quality and the good services of these two providers. I also have All-Americans and Buckfast from Weavers in Navasota, TX (http://www.ipt.com/bweaver/) and I have no fear of AHB in them. Weavers claim to put their mating nukes in the center of huge bee yards that basically saturate the area with EHB drones so there is almost no likelihood of an AHB mating. I don't know about AHB findings in that county, but Brazos County currently has no confirmed AHB findings. I wouldn't worry about Weaver's queens. Layne Westover College Station, Texas ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 18:29:21 +0200 Reply-To: Michael Haberl Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Haberl Subject: Re: Queen Cells > Now I do not believe the hive intends to swarm as they still have 4 frames > of foundation they have not touched. This only leaves supersedure. In my experience, having untouched foundation in a hive is not at all a indicator that this colony is not going to swarm. ----- Yesterday I inserted a breeding frame with 25 grafted, young larvae in a dequeened (>4 days) colony. When controlling for acceptance rate today (19/25), I found an EGG in one artificial queen cell cup. Has anyone ever observed the same? Obviously, this egg must have been laid by a worker bee. I marked its position, but left it untouched. I expect that this egg will be removed by workers. ____________________________________________________________________ Michael Haberl Zoologisches Institut der Uni Muenchen Tel: ++49 89 5902-444 Luisenstr. 14 Fax: ++49 89 5902-450 80333 Muenchen e-mail: haberl@zi.biologie.uni-muenchen.de Germany http://www.ebe-online.de/home/mhaberl/index.htm ____________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 17:30:49 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John J Moore Subject: Re: Arm Gators??? Comments: To: w_otto@umanitoba.ca Hi Warren: I bought the bee gloves with the outfit when I started but quickly dropped them for just my bare hands. Now when I do have to use gloves I buy those yellow dish gloves. They allow you to move freely and still feels like you are working them with your bare hands. John Celestial Offerings, Inc. "Gifts of Nature" N. Smithfield, R.I. 02896 _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]