========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 21:58:02 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ben Pollard Organization: Classic Fermentations Subject: Sanitary Requirements? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jsut had an article published in the paper about honey which we gave them some good information and it was put out that I keep bees and sell honey. Well, needless to say the city health department got wing and said we couldn't do that unless we maintained the same requirements as a restuarant. Granted we are a little more involved then the average bee keeper in that we stock, repackage and sell 10 - 12 different varities of honey as well as home beer and wine making supplies. The city says I can't even sell the honey I produce unless I comply with the stringent requirements for a restuarant which will involve big $$$. I do maintain good sanitary practices, but what they want is enough to put a little guy like me with a part-time business, out of business! Was just wondering if anyone else has had these problems and what they did about them. If I can't get them solved I guess another fledging small business bites the dust and I start keeping bees and making beer for fun again! Thanks, Ben Pollard -- Ben Pollard Classic Fermentations Homebrew Supply Amarillo, Texas classicferm@fia.net http://home.fia.net/~classicferm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 21:17:21 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Musashi Subject: bees on face of hive One of my largest hives, now that the weather has turned off hot and humid (over 100 degrees F today), has bees completely covering the alighting board and up about 9 inches high on the face of the hive about an inch thick everywhere. They seem to have left a small opening at one edge of the entrance, but the entrance is completely covered everywhere else and bees are not going in or out of the hive (this happens in the evening and night). I know there is space inside the hive for them to build more comb (this one is a long horizontal top bar hive). Is this behavior a heat dissipation mechanism? or are these the foragers that just can't wait to get a head start on the new day and so are waiting the night outside? or does my hive have too many bees for all of them to fit inside? Or is this behavior a precursor to swarming? Are the bees "trying to tell me something" by this behavior? Is this a "read flag" or a "green flag", a bad sign or a good, or indifferent? Layne Westover College Station, Texas ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 23:43:46 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: PT2-006600 Subject: Re: Pollen Traping In-Reply-To: <33f8a4ad.35510796@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 6 May 1998, BeemanNick wrote: > > how Can I make (city) pollen safe to eat? I am traping it my self at my > house. Any ideas will be apricated! I'd feel safer with city pollen than country, pesticide sprayed crops. Most city people I know don't really spray their flowering plants as much as the country fokls do their crops. *************************************************************** Dave D. Cawley | Where a social revolution is pending and, The Internet Cafe | for whatever reason, is not accomplished, Scranton, PA | reaction is the alternative. (717) 344-1969 | dave@scranton.com | -Daniel De Leon *************************************************************** URL => http://www.scranton.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 22:06:38 -0800 Reply-To: beeman@gci.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tom Elliott Organization: Home Subject: Re: Carniolans & Caucasians MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Midnitebee wrote: > FWIW-buckfast means "fast buck"..never had any luck with them..nor other > beekeepers in Maine. Buckfast bees from Weavers in Texas have proven very good in our coastal Alaska area. I have only used them a couple of times though. No one up here ships them in. FWIW Tom -- "Test everything. Hold on to the good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21) Tom Elliott Chugiak, Alaska U.S.A. beeman@gci.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 22:16:02 -0800 Reply-To: beeman@gci.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tom Elliott Organization: Home Subject: Re: Sanitary Requirements? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ben, Is there no "cottage ecomomy" provision in your municipality? There is in Anchorage, which allows such sales - at least of honey. Tom > > Just had an article published in the paper about honey which we gave > them some good information and it was put out that I keep bees and > sell honey. Well, needless to say the city health department got wing > and said we couldn't do that unless we maintained the same > requirements as a restuarant. -- "Test everything. Hold on to the good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21) Tom Elliott Chugiak, Alaska U.S.A. beeman@gci.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 22:10:24 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Alden P. Marshall" Subject: Re: Smoker Fuel I cant say which is most important, the fuel I burn or the insert burning chamber that contains the fuel. Anyone who has tried a fire cylinder insert with an appropriate bail (ss) would probably not conceive of using a smoker for any lengths of time. I used to carry around a 5 gal.pail of rolled up cardboard fuel plugs, held together with a girth of masking tape. About a year ago I put the cardboard to rest, but have a couple as backup. I don't know what the smoke was doing to the bees but I became convinced it was doing a number on the beekeeper. I now use pitch pine chips, my son is in tree service, all the chips I want. I keep them in a covered pail so not to dry out, in truck with all the other stuff. I had some extended pop rivets round the bottom circumference of the fire cylinder to keep the plug from dropping through. I have heard complaints of individuals not being able to keep the smoker going with the insert. This problem arises when the cylinder fits loose in the smoker chamber, it's the old blow-by problem, air must go up through the fuel. It is also necessary for the fuel to fit snuggly in the insert. Since going to the chips I dropped a wire grid into the bottom of the cylinder to keep fuel in the insert. The insert basically allows one to light the smoker from the bottom without handling any of previous burned fuel or throwing away the last fire remains (conservation). I wasn't beekeeping very long when I realized there had to be a better way to attach the smoker to me than via the digits, I needed all I had for other things. Well I made this little wire (cloths hangar material) bracket \_/ the width and half the height of the bellows box and attached it to the top back section of the bellows. My back pocket is now the holder of my smoker when I'm not puffing it. Alden Marshall B-Line Apiaries Hudson, NH 03051 Busybee9@Juno.com tel. 603-883-6764 _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 13:39:23 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: STEVE PHILLIPS Subject: Carniolans & Caucasians Alan Montgomery wrote: >I was wondering where your source for both the midnite and >carniolan queens are? I have had excellent results the last two years with New World Carniolian queens from Strachan Apiaries Yuba City, CA 95993 phone 916-674-3881 fax: 916-674-5802, although I haven't ordered any this year. The bees are very good natured, IMHO much more so than the Buckfast that I have kept. The bees produced well for me . The queens from Strachan seemed to be mated almost exclusively to Carniolian drones, since virtually all of the offspring look like Carniolians. (Carniolian queens I've gotten from other sources had obviously mated with Italians, in part.) The service from Strachen was very good. They seemed like nice people. Next time I order queens I will order from them. Steve Phillips Perry, KS jkphillips@sprynet.com phillips@at01po.wpo.state.ks.us ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 08:03:52 -0500 Reply-To: w_otto@umanitoba.ca Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Warren Otto Organization: The university of Manitoba Subject: Re: Arm Gators??? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanx to all with their suggestions for hand and wrist protection. Will have to try a couple of ideas out as the summer moves along. Warren Otto ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 07:24:33 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Judy Spradley Subject: bee gauntlets Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Walter Kelly (502) 242-2012 has cotton slip on sleeves (elastic at both ends) for $2.75 a pair. Catalogue item 61-S. Judy, A Displaced Texan in PA (ironacres@geocities.com) IRON ACRES HANDCRAFTS - goat milk soap & beeswax candles Where the water is red & the grass is green! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 10:17:23 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Inspectors causing trouble Ben Pollard talks about city requirements for packaging honey that require he meet the same standards as a restaurant. While I really don t know what to say, as I don t know the specifics, some thoughts come to mind: 1. Is this a real problem or only a potential problem? I have worked in a lot of restaurants, and have never observed that the inspectors are over-zealous in their requirements. They essentially want to be certain that bulk foods are kept properly cool, that the place is reasonably clean during working hours, is thoroughly cleaned daily, and that the dishwasher temperature is unreasonably hot. Hair nets are sometimes a problem (not wearing them). Working surfaces are usually supposed to be stainless steel or a comparable material . I have found inspectors will allow anything that is free of cracks, chips, etc. (places for bacteria to hide). A demonstration that they are wiped daily with alcohol goes a long way to meeting their requirements, and is no more work than soap and water. 2. I package a lot of honey, and have never been inspected or bothered. However, my personal ethic is to keep the place as clean as our home kitchen. While there is a lot of variance and judgment in that standard, we happen to keep our kitchen pretty clean, without being obsessive about it. 3. In addition to working in restaurants, I have worked in food processing plants. Again, I have never found the cleanliness standards to be a problem. When there has been a problem, it has been because employees would not keep their workplace up to the standards they would insist on in their homes. Ben, the only thing I can think of is to express an attitude of I want to meet the standards, but this is what I have to work with how can I comply without spending a lot of money? Sometimes if one can put the inspectors in the frame of helping , rather than enforcing , it can be surprising easy to comply. Best of luck, Lloyd LloydSpear@email.msn.com Owner, Ross Rounds the finest in comb honey production. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 10:29:36 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Clustering on front of hive Layne wonders about the meaning of a large cluster of bees outside his hive on hot, humid evenings and nights. Layne, I don t think there is any one meaning to be attached to this. Yes, your bees could be ready to swarm. But it ain t necessarily so. You can check by tipping the top hive body forward, and looking to see if there are swarm cells hanging from the bottom of the frames. If there are swarm cells, you won t be able to see all of them this way, but you should see some if any are present. As far as the bees are concerned, there is not enough room for them inside the hive. They are trying to keep air currents going to evaporate the nectar, and are saying that the bees need to be outside for those air currents to work. Do you have a top entrance for the hot moist air to escape? If not, and you don t want to drill a 1 hole, prop up the top cover on one end with some twigs or stones. Here in Northern New York State we are several weeks away from your temperatures, but every summer I have some hives that do this. Immediately adjacent hives will not do so, and both will raise an equal amount of honey. You should check for swarm cells. If they are not there, I wouldn t worry about it. Lloyd LloydSpear@email.msn.com Owner, Ross Rounds the finest in comb honey production. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 07:48:06 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Roger Sonnenberg Subject: T. Mite control MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Can oil/sugar patties be on my hives year round provided of course no meds during flow, or should they be off now? Thanks, Roger ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 10:25:05 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: STEVE PHILLIPS Subject: USDA to scraps proposed organic standards The USDA announced it would start over and rewrite the proposed organic food regulations. A news release can be found at: http://www.usda.gov/news/releases/1998/05/0205 An AP wire story on the standards can be found today at : http://wire.ap.org/APnews/main.html?BOOK=V0160 Apparently the opposition was that the regulations were not strict enough. Steve Phillips jkphillips@sprynet.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 11:48:18 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Oil/sugar patties Roger Sonnenberg questions whether oil/sugar patties can or should be left on during the flow or taken off. Roger, Sue Coby at Ohio State did some work a couple of years ago and compared the effects of tracheal mite control with just spring and fall oil/sugar patties and continual treatment. Her conclusion was that just spring and fall treatment was not at all effective, but very good results were obtained with continual treatment. I think the general conclusion is that continual treatment does not adversely contaminate, as both products (oil and sugar) are foods we consume every day. I personally use continual treatment. That said, I have observed (as have others) that the bees store the granulated sugar in cells and cap it with liquid honey. If you extracting honey, I suggest you look carefully to see if sugar crystals are in your jars. This might be a particular danger if you extract frames from the brood nest. Presumably, they will either be strained/filtered out or liquefied by heating, but I suggest you be certain. I personally raise only comb honey and have never observed any sugar crystals in the combs. Lloyd LloydSpear@email.msn.com Owner, Ross Rounds the finest in comb honey production. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 11:52:31 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Oil Patty Research at Ohio State MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Lloyd Spear wrote: > ... Sue Coby at Ohio State did some work a couple of years ago and > compared the effects of tracheal mite control with just spring and > fall oil/sugar patties and continual treatment.... The work was done at Ohio State, but I believe it was credited to Dr. Diana Sammataro. The conclusion was however that the oil patties must have a continuous presence to be effective. A 13 minute video highlighting Diana's research is available from A.I. Root. Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 11:11:53 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Randy Nessler Subject: Guineas vs bees, soft comb MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, Does anyone have any experience with guinea fowl around their hives? Do they eat bees? Also, the other day when I checked to see if the newly installed package queens had been freed, I noticed that the new comb was soft to gummy. With temps only being in the 50-60's F, it shouldn't be a heat problem. Any guesses as to why? -- Randy Nessler rnessler@emiris.iaf.uiowa.edu Views expressed are my own. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 11:29:14 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Keeler, Lisa" Subject: Oil Patties Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You say that oil/sugar patties have to be in continuously to be effective against tracheal mites. What is to be done in the winter when its too cold to replace the patties and what effect do the patties have if the Crisco is cold and solid and probably does not transfer to the bees well? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 10:29:09 -0700 Reply-To: snielsen@orednet.org Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Susan L. Nielsen" Subject: Re: Pollen Traping Dave Cawley says: > I'd feel safer with city pollen than country, pesticide sprayed >crops. Most city people I know don't really spray their flowering plants >as much as the country fokls do their crops. Well, now, I dunno. Here in Oregon, studies by the State have shown that better than 90% of homeowners who use garden pesticides and herbicides use them in excess of label guidelines, or use them with inappropriate timing or on inappropriate plants. Furthermore, the labels on agricultural products, and the State rules for application, are formulated for large-scale applications in large areas, not for use on small plots adjacent to other small plots, with the result being a far more intensive chemical load than is really intended by the manufacturer. Further furthermore, chemical overload in the city and in suburbs runs off into commonly held waterways and systems which flow through densely shared grounds, meaning that chemicals used in one yard combine with chemicals used in other yards. The synergy that results is dynamic and unpredictable. It's 4:30. Do you know where your bees are? Susan -- Susan Nielsen | Beehive: If you build it, snielsen@orednet.org | they will comb. -- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 14:29:59 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK Subject: Re: T. Mite control Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Grease patties of sugar and Crisco, NO MEDICINE should be on 365 days/year for effective results. I still think Menthol is MUCH better, so I use both and have never lost a colony to tracheal mites. George ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 14:48:28 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Grease Patties MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Lisa Keeler wrote: > ... What is to be done in the winter when its too cold to replace the > patties... It has been my experience that a patty installed in October will still be around in March. I can't testify to it's effect during that time. Will view (again) Diana's video and report back Monday what it says, although I don't recall that it addresses Lisa's query specifically. Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 14:55:30 -0500 Reply-To: ktate@geocities.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Kathy Tate Subject: Re: Guineas vs bees MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Does anyone have any experience with guinea fowl around their hives? > Do they eat bees? Randy, For the past two years I have had 4 guineas around my house and hives and they seem to pay no special attention to the bees. It appears they prefer grasshoppers and other insects. Kathy Tate Stephenville, TX ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 11:32:05 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter Subject: Re: Clustering on front of hive Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Buy a six pack of beer especially a brand that requires an opener. Visit another beekeeper to help drink the beer. Save the bottle caps and use them to raise the telescope cover off the inner cover a bit and provide some ventillation. (assuming inner cover has a bee escape hole) Now if you see a lot of hanging out in the day time then expect a swarm very soon. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 16:25:58 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Oil Patties MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lisa, In the fall, I put one patty on top of the lower hive body and one on top of the upper hive body and the bees will work the lower in the fall and the upper will probably still be there in spring. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME Keeler, Lisa wrote: What is to be done in the winter ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 13:49:30 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Re: Oil Patties Lisa, I think that during the winter nothing need be done. Meaning that patties need not be added and, as you say, they will not be consumed. For a portion of the winter there will be no brood, and thus no new bees to be infected. The speculation is that the oil acts to confuse the mites so that they cannot "find" the new bees to infect. Of course, once they are in a bee trachea they cannot be treated; the objective is to keep them out of the trachea or, failing that, to keep the trachea populations low. I presume, but do not know, that during the winter mite reproduction slows. Lloyd -----Original Message----- From: Keeler, Lisa To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Date: Friday, May 08, 1998 12:35 PM Subject: Oil Patties >You say that oil/sugar patties have to be in continuously to be >effective against tracheal mites. What is to be done in the winter when >its too cold to replace the patties and what effect do the patties have >if the Crisco is cold and solid and probably does not transfer to the >bees well? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 20:05:39 -0400 Reply-To: beekeepr@bellsouth.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Frank Humphrey Subject: Re: Laying Worker(s)?? In-Reply-To: <6f04a098.354fe174@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > << Any suggestions on laying workers? One of my hives may have this > problem. I cannot find a queen but I have eggs, and some drones > in worker > cells. The XYZ-s' book suggests destroying the bees and > starting over, but > this seems rather drastic! Doug Brown >> > I move the hive and in its place put a new hive with a queen and 3 or 4 frames of brood. I then carry the old hive some distance away and shake all the bees in heavy grass. If there is and amount of brood, set the old hive on top of the new one. All the flying bees will eventually return to the new hive and join. If this is a starter hive with laying workers, just shake them out of the hive and give the brood to another colony. The bees from the laying worker hive will join other hives in the yard and will very seldom cause a problem. Frank Humphrey beekeepr@bellsouth.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 20:43:41 -0400 Reply-To: beekeepr@bellsouth.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Frank Humphrey Subject: Virgin Queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I had read that a good method of requeening was to chase in virgin queens through the top of the hive. I had never tried this until last week. I had 4 very strong nucs that had rejected their queens. I tried giving 3 of them ripe cells but only one of them ended up with a mated queen. By this time the other 3 had been queenless for over 2 weeks. My brother-in-law called and offered me 3 very large virgin queens that he had found in one of his supers. I placed the queens in their cages over the holes on the inner covers of the three hives. The hive bees ignored them except to feed them. The next morning smoked the hives good and released the virgin queens into the top of the hives. Four days later 2 of them were laying well and I couldn't find the third one. Today, 1 1/2 weeks after release, I found the third one. She appears to have started laying about 4 days ago. This is something I intend to try again. I would like to know if anyone else has tried this. Frank Humphrey beekeepr@bellsouth.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 08:32:26 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: williams Subject: BEE STING REACTION MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have been working with bee's for past 5 year's. The first two years I had very little reaction to bee stings. However for the past three years this reaction has increased. This year I got two stings, one on arm and one on chest. and within 30 minutes both arms were swelling and I broke out in hives over part of body. It now takes about three days to get over this. Has anyone had similar problem? is there anything I can take before working bee's to prevent this reaction. Thank you for help. Williams@tigernet.missouri.org ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 18:32:44 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Barry Richards Subject: Re: BEE STING REACTION MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- >I have been working with bee's for past 5 year's. The first two years I >had very little reaction to bee stings. However for the past three years >this reaction has increased. This year I got two stings, one on arm and >one on chest. and within 30 minutes both arms were swelling and I broke out >in hives over part of body. It now takes about three days to get over >this. Has anyone had similar problem? is there anything I can take before >working bee's to prevent this reaction. Thank you for help. > > Williams@tigernet.missouri.org You should talk to your doctor about your specific case but I have had good results with Benadryl. My doctor suggested taking it before working with bees if I am certain to get a sting. However, if I am careful with them and wear proper protective gear (suit with zippered veil, gloves, taped ankles) I rarely get stung. I keep a bottle of liquid Benadryl with my equipment. I also can't over-emphasize the effectiveness of quickly removing stingers without "squeezing" out the venom. My doctor also prescribed an inhaler and an Epi-pen in case of a VERY severe reaction. Thankfully, I have never needed them. BTW, any other beekeepers carrying Epi-pens - a massive recall of the products was announced this week because of low dosage in some recently manufactured pens. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 01:37:42 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=F8rn_Johanesson?= Subject: Sv: BEE STING REACTION MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You have to take this very serious! Keep away from Bees, and se a doctor. Have a talk with him about allergic reaction to beestings. Be aware of that you seems to develop a n allergic reaction, and that this will kill you if you are not very serious about this. a little story! one of my friends has never reacted to beestings before, but one day in the apiary while he was working alone he got a few stings and the life got away from him. He might have had a chance if there had been somebody with him to give him help for chock and to alarm rescure. But the luck left him. regards Jorn Johanesson Beekeeper since 1970 EDBi = Beekeeping software since 1986 homepages http://wn.com.au/apimo http://home4.inet.tele.dk/apimo e-mail apimo@post4.tele.dk -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: williams Til: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Dato: 9. maj 1998 15:48 Emne: BEE STING REACTION >I have been working with bee's for past 5 year's. The first two years I >had very little reaction to bee stings. However for the past three years >this reaction has increased. This year I got two stings, one on arm and >one on chest. and within 30 minutes both arms were swelling and I broke out >in hives over part of body. It now takes about three days to get over >this. Has anyone had similar problem? is there anything I can take before >working bee's to prevent this reaction. Thank you for help. > > Williams@tigernet.missouri.org ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 10:07:48 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: WGMiller Subject: Re: BEE STING REACTION Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hives as a reaction to a bee sting are a systemic reaction, and if you get a case of them after a sting, you should see your doctor ASAP. I had a problem like that several years ago, and I was successfully desensitized to bee stings. It's a long process, but I wasn't told to abandon my bees in the interim. W. G. Miller Gaithersburg MD ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 12:00:18 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Auble1 Subject: Mite treatment Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Has anyone heard of using "Vicks Vaporub" on the inner cover to treat for T. Mites? A general post, or private e-mail would be appreciated. Thanks!! Ron ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 00:07:12 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Hutton Organization: Amigabee computer networking for beekeepers Subject: Guineas vs bees, soft comb CHRS: IBMPC 2 CODEPAGE: 437 MSGID: 240:244/116 34e0fc18 REPLY: 240:44/0 ab9a2927 PID: FDAPX/w 1.12a UnReg(287) Hello Randy, I have four guinea fowl, they are often in the vicinty of my hives, I have never observed them attempt to eat bees, nor any of my chicken or other fowl. The only bird I have ever observed deliberately eating honeybees was a flycatcher. It sat in the hedge alongside a field of oil seed rape (brassica napus(canola) every whipswhile it popped out and caught a bee, popped back and eat it, after seeing about twenty bees taken there was an upset, it missed a bee, the bee attacked the bird, the bird first popped back to the hedge but the bee pursued it follwed by another, the bird perplexed flew up, down, around and back. By now there were more than a dozen bees around the flying bird and attacking it with gusto, the bird now fled ducking and diving, the further it flew the more bees joined the chase, when the bird was so far distant to be invisible there was a black cloud of bees still to be seen. I have never seen such a sight since. I think your wax is so fresh that it has not hardened, nor has it become adulterated with propolis nor are there any cocoons to stiffen u the comb. peter.hutton@btinternet.com from the Garden of England where the weather is totally out of synch, there is stacks of nectar and too few bees. --- * Origin: Kent Beekeeper Beenet Point (240:244/116) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 06:56:12 -0500 Reply-To: ribac@wi.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Randy & Isa Chase Subject: Re: Guineas vs bees, soft comb MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have had guineas for about five years and have not experienced any noticable problems. I have about twenty hives. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 10:31:35 -0700 Reply-To: jcbach@yvn.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: James C Bach Subject: Sanitary Requirements MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ben Pollard requests information about how to deal with inspectors and their requirements for a honey packing area. Lloyd Spear provides an excellent response. I would only add the following ideas. 1. Anyone selling honey at a flea market, or wholesale to fruit stands, health food stores, etc, may have their honey label seen by someone representing the state department of agriculture. The inspector is usually from either a dairy and food or a weights and measures program. These are consumer protection programs which often means they have some visibility and emphasis within their respective departments. 2. Inspectors are trying to enforce statutes and administrative rules which are on the books because they were or are needed to solve production and packing problems in industries which may affect the public health . Ask for a copy of the laws they are enforcing in a visit to your packing plant. 3. Also ask for any "good manufacturing process" guidelines they can provide to you. 4. While you may be subject to inspection because of a marketed product, you can gain less attention if you take the time to consult with an inspector before you begin selling a product, and get the recomendations and laws, then comply with those production standards. 5. Like Lloyd says, an inspector is usually willing to work with you if you engage in a dialog rather than a heated diatribe. 6. Cleanable surfaces on the lower walls, floor, extractor, table or work surfaces, access to potable water source in the packing room for washing hands, slip covers over flourescent tubes or TuffCote bulbs and adequate lighting, bath room facilities if a larger plant, evidence of proper cleanliness behaviors by the operator, and a good public safety attitude is what most inspectors will look for. They will also discourage persons from packing honey in a garage or other area where chemicals are stored or where shop work is conducted. Cleanliness is the first priority. If an inspector (or the public) can walk into your packing area and take a quick look around and immediately say "my this place is clean!" you have the proper packing environment for your customers and the inspector. There are a lot of small beekeeper honey packing plants where you wouldn't want to eat off the work surface. In some you would feel comfortable sitting or eating off the floor. James C. Bach WSDA State Apiarist Yakima WA jbach@agr.wa.gov jcbach@yvn.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 16:32:42 -0500 Reply-To: ktate@geocities.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Kathy Tate Subject: Re: Sanitary Requirements? MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I've read the responses to the posting by Ben Pollard and would like to comment that his situation is not one that can be solved by being nice to the inspectors or keeping a clean kitchen (or work area), although that helps. I am also a beekeeper in Texas and have found the regulations outlandish for a small business person. I contacted the state health department and asked for a "booklet" containing guidelines and received nearly 500 pages of definitions, rules, legislations, etc...none of which answered all my questions. It is my understanding that in Texas you must have a facility unattached (or seperated by a wall) to your residence with a restroom that does not open directly into the honey work room. The floor must have a drain and walls must be washable at least 24" up the wall. Of course hot water, nothing sitting directly on the floor, no flies, debris, etc. and that is just the beginning. It's easy to see that rules out the cleanest of most kitchens or garages. I know of very few "hobby" beekeepers that can go out and build a $10,000 building in order to sell $500 worth of honey per year. (I would love to have such a facility. I suppose you know how far one drop of honey on the bottom of someone's boot can spread !) Most everyone encourages us to be quiet and go along until caught, I'd prefer to comply with their rules. If anyone has any "loop holes" or ideas (I have a few) I'd like to hear them. Thanks, Kathy and Johnny Tate Stephenville, TX ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 17:25:37 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK Subject: Re: Mite treatment Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I don't want my honey smelling like Vicks. Why not use PROVEN treatments: Menthol about Sept 1st or before and grease patties all 12 months; or maybe your bees are not that important to you. I fail to understand why we want to use treatment for humans as treatment for bees; particularly when scientists all over the world have been searching for 15 years to find treatment for tracheal mites. Some say they can't use menthol in August because of a nectar flow. Then they have to decide which is more important: honey or live bees. If they chose live bees, then they will have to keep grease patties (withOUT terramyacin) in place all 12 months of the year. We all hope that science will soon find a solution, but Vicks Vapor Rub in my honey is not it. George ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 15:41:46 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Joel Govostes Subject: Mouldy super-combs revisited In-Reply-To: <35532EC9.794B@emiris.iaf.uiowa.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Alas, some of my honey super combs are partially plugged with white and black mould. I have never seen this before, at least to such an extent. (Supers are stored outside all winter, stacked on old queen excluders to keep out the mice, and covered against snow/rain.) It appears that several of the supers contained a good deal of pollen - for some reason - after the final extracting last fall. (Come to think of it, I did have a number of queens reared and producing lots of brood above the excluders in one yard.) Anyhow, those pollen-cells now contain a hardened white mass, and there is gray/black mould on some of the surfaces as well. Has anyone had luck with the bees removing this hardened material, or will they ignore it? It is pretty hard to dig out. Interested in any suggestions... thanks! JG ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 11:00:09 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Barrett Organization: banjobee books Subject: Spacing hives in an apiary Comments: To: jcbach@yvn.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If you were a beekeeper in the 1880s then you would have spaced your hives some 15 feet (5 metres) apart. In my town of Springwood, Blue Mountains, (NSW, Australia) there are the remains of a 19th Century apiary. Pathways bordered in stone separate hive stands (blocks of stone 2 feet square, 6 inches thick) set an average of 15 feet apart. Several lines of hive stands still survive 100 years since they were last used. Quite unique I believe. Almost a beekeeping stonehenge. Those wanting more detail let me know. Peter Barrett James C Bach wrote: > > Robert Cessac asks about spacing hives in an apiary. > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 08:54:24 +0000 Reply-To: Barry@Birkey.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Organization: BIRKEY.COM Subject: Re: BEE STING REACTION MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit williams wrote: > in hives over part of body. It now takes about three days to get over > this. Has anyone had similar problem? is there anything I can take before > working bee's to prevent this reaction. Thank you for help. > > Williams@tigernet.missouri.org If you go to: http://www.beekeeping.co.nz/beel.htm and type in "bee sting" or "bee sting reaction" or "reaction to bee stings" in the search field, you will get well over 300 posts from the bee-l archives and a lot will be dealing with this very issue you have. Hope this helps. -Barry -- Barry Birkey Illinois, USA -------------------------------- BIRKEY.COM Web Design & Digital Illustration -------------------------------- 630.293.1181 ph > 630.293.3613 fx barry@birkey.com > http://www.birkey.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 23:12:59 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: DNBrown Subject: Bee Sting Allergy Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > and within 30 minutes both arms were swelling and I broke out >in hives over part of body. It now takes about three days to get over >this. Has anyone had similar problem? is there anything I can take before >working bee's to prevent this reaction. Thank you for help. >Williams@tigernet.missouri.org Whoa! Williams in Missouri, this can be dangerous- it can lead up to an anaphylactic type allergic reaction, one that can severely lower your blood pressure, and possibly cause such severe swelling in your throat that you cannot breathe, or trigger an athsma attack! For a bad reaction, this can happen faster than you can get to a hospital. (And you thought the hives were bad enough!) Any hives or swelling on your body well away from where you are stung is a sign of allergy to the sting. Once you are sensitized, each reaction can get worse. It is typical of allergic reactions to have many exposures with no problem, then get sensitized and suddenly you have a problem. Sorry if I am coming on strong but *****you really should talk to an MD allergist. I have anaphylactic type reactions to peanuts and I have been hospitalized for this. It can be life-threatening, and so can bee sting allergy. I have spent time in emergency rooms with tubes up my nose and don't want to see it happen to someone else. I already carry an epinephrine injector for the peanut allergy, and always carry it to the bee yard. Again, I apologise if this email is taken as being too alarmist, but an allergist can tell you what your own situation is. Are there beekeeps on the list allergic to their bees? How do you deal with it? --Doug ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 20:34:39 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." Subject: Bee Article in NY Times Sunday Magazine Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The NY Times Sunday Magazine section has an article entitled: "The new improved Bee" by Karen Wright. Does anyone have a copy of this article to post to this list or send me a copy so I can scan it into my computer? Thanks for any input. Paul Cronshaw, D.C. Hobbyist Beekeeper Santa Barbara, CA USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 08:42:40 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: Bee gauntlets In-Reply-To: Hi All Just saw your post Judy about bee gauntlets. Another option is to use rubber gloves made for handling toxic waste. Normall these gloves are very thick, but a French company (Jenna) makes a range with a very thin, fingertight fit. Almost like working without gloves. They have a white inner coating that stops beestings, and a glossy yet 'sticky' outer coat which makes the bees not want to sting. They are cheap. Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis Eastern Cape Prov. South Africa Time = Honey ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 08:36:00 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: Bees on face of hive In-Reply-To: Hi Layne You mention bees clustering on the front of your hive in both heat and less extreme weather. I do not know if this is universal bee behaviour but with my bees it is pretty common if they are doing well and producing surpluss bees. A little tip is to requeen when they get like this - that nice lump on the front can make a swarm - but with a young queen will make a crop. Here in SA it is quite normal on a hot day, if your bees are in a shaded place to see them hanging in a big cluster on the hive front. That is heat dissipation. Another thing this could be, if you have not noticed it in previous years is an advent of 'africanized' behaviour patterns into your area?? Who knows. Something interesting to do would be to take a photograph of the bees on the front, and then to take (during the day) a photo of a frame of bees. Count various colourations and compare the ratios for on the front to the ones inside. Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis Eastern Cape Prov. South Africa Time = Honey ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 07:18:36 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John M Thorp Subject: Infection Greetings one and all, Would any of you have a personal case history as to how honey has helped clear up an infection ? A diabetic friend of mine has one on his foot giving him a fit. If so what kind not that it probably matters and for how long ? Thanks in advance for the information. John in Homestead- -Jesus Christ is the only answer _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 05:51:17 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Subject: Company recalls EpiPen allergy injectors MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Company recalls EpiPen allergy injectors From InfoBeat: A U.S. company issued an urgent recall of its EpiPen allergy injectors Friday, saying they did not contain enough drug to treat an acute allergic attack. The injectors are used by people with acute allergies. Maryland-based Meridian Medical Technologies Inc. said it was conducting a voluntary recall of its EpiPen and EpiPen Jr. auto-injectors worldwide. The 47 lots were distributed in the U.S., Germany, Israel, Denmark, Canada, Turkey, Australia, Greece and South Africa. -- Buy, sell, trade, get a job, hire help, announce a meeting, advertise a business or publication... For free *beekeeping related* classified ads, visit http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/BeeAds/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 08:22:44 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Midnitebee Subject: NY Times "Silence of the Honeybee MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings! May 10, 1998, Sunday Section: Connecticut Weekly Desk The Silence of the Honeybees By CATHY SHUFRO HOWARD BRONSON JR. used to enjoy listening to the hum of the honeybees flying among the blossoms in his apple orchard in Roxbury. ''On a nice quiet day during bloom you could stand real still and you'd hear the bees working,'' Mr. Bronson said. ''When you walk in there now, you have to look for a bee.'' A garden center owner, Charles Paley of Sharon, has also noticed the dramatic loss of bees. For years, when he received his spring shipment of the flowering Andromeda shrub, swarms of bees would appear ''out of nowhere.'' ''That just doesn't happen anymore,'' he said. ''I don't think there are any wild bees left.'' The honeybees have fallen silent in many parts of Connecticut, and across the nation. Even open fields of clover are bereft of the bees that gathered in clouds only a few years ago. The honeybees are casualties of two persistent mites and the mites are rupturing an indispensable link between plants: without the pollen transfer pollen provided by bees (and other pollinators) there would be no apples, pumpkins, blueberries, zucchini, cucumbers, tomatoes. To keep their bees alive, beekeepers must now control the mites with chemicals, making beekeeping more complicated and more expensive. As a result, one out of three of the state's beekeepers closed down its hives between 1993 and 1997. The number of registered beekeepers dropped to 497 from 734, while the number of managed bee colonies fell to 2,400 from 3,500, according to the state's Agricultural Experiment Station. Since a healthy managed colony consists of 70,000 bees, the loss represents 77 million bees in Connecticut alone. (Similar losses have been reported nationwide since the mites were discovered in the South in the mid-1980's.) Perhaps even more serious is the death of most of the state's wild honeybees. These feral colonies usually develop from swarms that break off from a beekeeper's thriving colony to settle in tree hollows or holes in buildings. Besieged and weakened by mites, wild colonies no longer survive the winter, succumbing to the cold. If enough die -- say a quarter of the bees in a colony -- the survivors cannot maintain a large enough winter cluster to keep warm. The entire colony freezes to death. The number of wild bees lost in Connecticut is astronomical. Until the mites began to take their toll in the exceptionally cold winter of 1995-1996, Connecticut had about 11 colonies of wild bees per square mile, according to the deputy state entomologist, Carol R. Lemmon. Those bees -- nearly a half million per square mile -- would cover a radius of three miles searching for pollen and nectar. Now few wild colonies survive the winter, Ms. Lemmon said. Backyard gardeners may feel the loss of the wild bees most intensely. Farmers and fruit growers have always depended on domesticated bees anyway, and if they now have to pay more to rent bees or work harder to keep them healthy, they still get their crops pollinated. But Ms. Lemmon reports that small-scale gardeners are beginning to notice failures of pollination. ''Most people never had to worry about bees to get their garden pollinated,'' she said. ''Now all of a sudden at least 80 percent of those wild bees are gone, so these gardens are not getting pollinated. It's very frustrating if you plant rows and rows of squash and you only get blossoms.'' Ms. Lemmon thinks some small gardeners have quit out of frustration, perhaps without realizing they owed paltry harvests to poor pollination. Gardeners themselves gave mixed reports. Shrdlu Ashe of New Milford has noticed the dearth of bees in his garden, but he thinks other wild pollinating insects have filled in. He still gets plenty of vegetables. ''I was kind of worried, but I haven't noticed any difference,'' he said. In contrast, Raymond Booth of Roxbury has noticed a marked decline in production in the past few years. ''There just was no pollination,'' said Mr. Booth. ''The apple trees laid right off -- nothing like it had been.'' Mr. Booth lives close to Mr. Bronson, so he may have benefited from Mr. Bronson's bees. When all nine of Mr. Bronson's colonies were obliterated by mites three years ago, Mr. Bronson gave up beekeeping. He didn't want to take on the task of controlling the two kinds of mites: the Varroa mite and the tracheal mite, both tiny spider relatives. To kill the Varroa mite, Mr. Bronson would have to treat his colonies with a chemical miticide twice a year. The mite feeds on adult bees and sucks the blood of bee pupae, deforming the developing bees. Mr. Bronson would also have had to use menthol each fall to control the microscopic tracheal mite, which lives inside the bee's two breathing tubes, reducing the flow of oxygen and weakening or killing the bee. Applications of both chemicals must be timed to coordinate with the bees' life cycles and to avoid contaminating honey that will be eaten by humans (as opposed to honey left to sustain the bees themselves). Mr. Bronson decided not to shoulder the extra work. ''The bees used to take care of themselves,'' he said. Now he pays $160 each spring to rent four colonies and must buy -- rather than harvest -- the honey he sells at his farm stand. The invasion of the mites led to near-disaster for a commercial beekeeper, Vincent Kay of New Haven. After the winter of 1995-1996, he estimates, he lost nearly half of his 400 colonies. He found himself digging out shovelsful of frozen bees from the snowbanks around his hive boxes. ''I contemplated going out of business just from the sheer labor of cleaning out so many hives,'' Mr. Kay said, ''you're talking about hundreds of thousands of dead bees.'' Now Mr. Kay must add the cost of miticides to his expenses. He said he passed on only a small proportion of his added cost to the orchards with which he has pollination contracts. He said the best hope for beekeepers was the development of a mite-resistant bee. The quest for resistant bees has led Federal Department of Agriculture researchers to experiment with bees that have endured the mites longer, including ones from England and Central Europe. The mites infiltrated European bee colonies first and then were accidentally brought across the Atlantic. North American honeybees themselves came originally from Europe, introduced in Virginia by colonists in 1621 for their wax and honey rather than as pollinators. They have proven most useful as pollinators since then; the value of bee-dependent crops in the United States is estimated at $10 billion annually. Ms. Lemmon, the entomologist, believes the few surviving wild bees might develop resistance on their own, faster than will domesticated bees, which are stressed by human management and the harvesting of their honey. In any case, she said, ''This is going to take a long time.'' An orchard owner, John Lyman 3d, said growers are concerned aboutthe fate of the bees. ''Anything that can harm the population of pollinators, we worry about,'' Mr. Lyman said. He rents more than 100 colonies each spring to pollinate the apple and pear trees and the blueberries on his family's 350-acre orchard in Middlefield. A beekeeping supplier, Dominic Gaeta of Brookfield, sees a hidden benefit to mite damage. He said beekeepers are keeping a closer watch on their colonies and learning more about their complex social systems. In addition, he said, more and more backyard gardeners are learning to keep bees. ''It's broadening their experience as gardeners,'' he said, noting that people become attached to their bees. ''You get to know them. It's almost like they can talk to you. You see they're getting along better because of your help. That's a good feeling.'' Ms. Lemmon agrees about the bond. ''It may sound strange, but these creatures are very dearly loved by the beekeepers.' Herb Holly-B Apiary P.O.Box 26 Wells,Maine 04090-0026 http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 09:00:00 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Midnitebee Subject: NY Times/additional/Physicists Study MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit April 7, 1998, Tuesday Section: Science Desk Physicists Study the Honeybee For Clues to Complex Problems By MALCOLM W. BROWNE HOW doth the little busy bee improve each shining hour? By making honey, of course. But also by prompting scientists to think about the deep significance of gooey coils that pile up when honey is poured on toast, and how quantum mechanics might choreograph the dancing of bees. Two papers that recently came to light (one in the March issue of Nature, and the other not yet accepted for publication) celebrated the humble honeybee, reminding readers that seemingly trivial problems can lead to weighty insights. In the Nature paper, Dr. Lakshminarayanan Mahadevan, a physicist at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, revealed a formula he discovered for predicting the frequency at which liquid coils form at the bottom of a stream of honey (or a similar fluid). Assisted by experiments conducted by two Harvard University students, Dr. Mahadevan showed that by taking into account the density of the fluid, its viscosity, its flow rate, the gravitational force, the radius of the stream and the height from which it descends, it is possible to calculate the frequency and radius of the resulting coils, at least up to the point at which they spread out (and are devoured). So what? ''At first I was just curious,'' Dr. Mahadevan said in an interview. ''This was one of the few problems that the late fluid dynamicist Sir Geoffrey I. Taylor left the rest of us to solve. Taylor made many great discoveries, including one he made while working on the first atomic bomb at Los Alamos. He discovered a way of predicting how the shock wave from a nuclear blast would spread out. He also thought about weather and climate, about how sperm swims, and many other things involving fluid dynamics, but he never got around to solving the honey-coiling problem.'' Dr. Mahadevan said that the problem seemed too complex to solve when he first attacked it three years ago. Instead, he decided to investigate a somewhat similar phenomenon: the spontaneous coiling of rope when a length suspended vertically falls to the ground. His successful solution of the rope-coiling problem led to his new formula for honey coiling. ''As we moved along,'' Dr. Mahadevan said, ''I found that there are people interested in this: in the glass industry, for instance, in which glass fibers must be pulled from melted glass at just the right speed, and in the textile industry, in which liquid polymer is pulled through small holes to form fibers.'' The investigation of honey coiling is far from complete, he said, but it has led to another flavorful field of research: the study of how sheets of falling honey (rather than thin streams) behave as they hit the ground. ''Sheets of viscous fluid do not coil,'' Dr. Mahadevan said. ''They buckle and fold. The behavior seems to be analogous to the buckling of sheets of rock under pressure over geological time periods. The geological flow of tectonic plates -- the mechanism that creates mountain ranges -- may be similar in principle to the flow of sheets of honey. We'll have to see how it pans out.'' Bees, of course, are interested in honey too, and when a bee finds a good source of nectar it signals its hive mates where to look. It does so by ''dancing.'' Dr. Barbara Shipman, a mathematician at the University of Rochester, is the daughter of a physicist who was interested in bees. Early in her career she became aware that bees returning to their hives do a stylized, curving ''waggling run'' with their heads pointed toward food to guide others in the swarm. Dr. Shipman's special interest is the geometry of multidimensional spaces -- spaces that may have many more dimensions than the three of everyday experience. While investigating patterns in a theoretical six-dimensional space (which cannot be visualized), she projected them on a two-dimensional plane, and discovered to her surprise that the resulting curves resembled those that are traced by dancing bees. (A more easily visualized ''projection'' is that of a three-dimensional sphere. Projected on a two-dimensional plane, the result is a circle.) Physicists have devised various theories based on multidimensional space to find hidden relationships between different kinds of fundamental particles, all of which obey the rules of quantum mechanics. Dr. Shipman suspects that quantum mechanics plays a role in biology and behavior, and that there might be a link between the mathematics of six-dimensional space and the innate signaling behavior of bees. ''Lots of physics go on in the bee,'' she said. ''The bee doesn't know what it's doing. Its behavior is programmed, not learned from other bees. Newly born bees do the waggling runs after their first flights to find nectar, before ever seeing another bee dance. ''It seems to me natural that quantum mechanics must have some interaction with biology, which is the most complex of all physical systems.'' Dr. Shipman has yet to persuade publishers to print the paper outlining her ideas, but some physicists, Dr. Roger Penrose of Oxford University among them, also believe in connections between quantum events and biological behavior. ''At least it's worth looking into, don't you think?'' Dr. Shipman said. Correction: April 14, 1998, Tuesday An equation in Science Times last Tuesday for predicting the frequency at which honey coils on toast rendered the exponents incorrectly. A corrected equation appears today on page F5. Correction: April 14, 1998, Tuesday An equation last Tuesday for predicting the frequency at which honey coils on toast rendered the exponents in the formula incorrectly. The formula is: [omega][wavy hypen]Q(to the 3/2 power)r(to the -7/2 power)[nu](to the -1/2 power) Or: The frequency of coils is approximately equal to the flow rate (to the 3/2 power) times the radius of the filament (to the -7/2 power) times the kinematic viscosity (to the -1/2/ power). Correction: April 17, 1998, Friday A picture in Science Times on April 7 with an article about the coiling patterns of liquids like honey carried an incorrect credit. It was from Felice Frankel, not Nature. Holly-B Apiary P.O.Box 26 Wells,Maine 04090-0026 http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 08:57:28 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Midnitebee Subject: Additional/NY Times MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Holly-B Apiary P.O.Box 26 Wells,Maine 04090-0026 http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee June 1, 1997, Sunday Section: Style Desk Music to a Gardener's Ears: Bzzzzzzz By Anne Raver The Sonoran Desert, with its ocotillos and agaves, might seem a strange place for a New York gardener to find inspiration, but I returned from a trip to Tucson, Ariz., fired up about pollinators. They need our help. Two bug lovers, Dr. Stephen L. Buchmann, an entomologist at the Carl Hayden Bee Research Center, and Dr. Gary Paul Nabhan, the director of science at the Arizona-Sonora Desert Museum, both in Tucson, are the authors of ''The Forgotten Pollinators'' (Island Press, 1996). And they have begun a campaign by the same name to increase awareness about the sorry state of the world's bees, birds, bats, butterflies and beetles (they have a web site, too: www.desert.net/museum/fp/). A gardener may not be able to single-handedly stop yet another shopping mall from paving over the last meadow or forest in the neighborhood or to cease the widespread use of pesticides. But one pollinators' paradise may inspire others on the block, creating a little corridor of plants for wildlife. And who knows: getting to know the bees that pollinate your squash patch may galvanize a little political action. ''If backyard bug watchers become engaged with the interactions they see in their gardens,'' Dr. Nabhan writes, ''they may become stronger advocates for keeping highway medians herbicide-free, for assuring that only biological control agents are used to manage pests on food crops and for establishing corridors linking protected areas.'' That's only one message in ''The Forgotten Pollinators,'' which covers everything from how a moth lays eggs in the ovary of a yucca flower, and then intentionally pollinates the same flower (to insure her offspring's food supply), to the increase of pesticide use with the North American Free Trade Agreement. The sheer weight of information is a bit daunting, from mutualism (how one insect may depend on a single plant, and vice versa, for its existence) to how many species are threatened. But take it in stages, like the rufous hummingbird, which flies 2,000 miles every year from central Mexico to Canada to breed. This bird is in trouble, too, for the usual reasons: habitat destruction and pesticides. Hummingbird gardens and butterfly gardens are old hat, but if you want to be on the cutting edge, how about planting a garden for bees? Then at the next cocktail party you can casually say, ''The mason bees are nesting in the dead tree in my pollinator garden, really they are.'' I predict pollinator gardening will be hot in the Hamptons this summer. But back to Tucson, where it was 100 degrees in late May, and the rufous hummer had already high-tailed it up north. The nectarines and apricots were hanging heavy on the trees in the desert garden at Dr. Nabhan's house, and his pomegranates were forming bright red balls on the ends of the pollinated flowers, which hummingbirds love. ''Steve pointed out that rotting fruit was important to keeping butterflies around, so I put it in the birdbath,'' said Dr. Nabhan, firing a couple of overripe peaches into an old birdbath under a mesquite tree. Fruit trees, of course, are pollinated by bees, and not just European honeybees. ''Honeybees are nasty competition for the native pollinators -- because of their famous wiggle dance,'' he said. ''As soon as they find a tree, they dance their brains out, and soon 40,000 to 50,000 sisters are there -- tens of thousands of little mouths sucking up the nectar.'' This wiggle dance is like a map showing your neighbors how to get to the free Ben & Jerry's. Wild bees, on the other hand, are basically solitary and have to find food on their own. (Bumblebees are more sociable, Dr. Buchmann says. ''You hear little buzzes inside the hive,'' he said, ''but we don't know what they're communicating.'') ''Everybody thinks about honeybees, but there are 5,000 species of native bees,'' Dr. Buchmann said. And they pollinate many crops far more efficiently than the honeybee, which is an import from Europe. ''Blueberries, cranberries, eggplants, chilies, kiwis and tomatoes are all buzz-pollinated,'' he said. The anthers, those doodads that hold the pollen, ''look like saltshakers with two holes,'' he said. A female bumblebee grabs hold of the anther with her mandible. She ''curls her body around it, and the pollen comes blasting out the holes,'' he continued, adding, ''It can harvest pollen five times faster than a honeybee.'' About 30 percent of food crops are pollinated by bees, and no one has ever tried to count the wild ones. But the honeybee population has dropped from 6 million to 1.9 million since 1950, Dr. Buchmann said. The main causes, scientists say, are two kinds of mites, as well as pesticide use and harsh winters, which are also taking their toll on the wild bees. Many flowers loved by hummingbirds and butterflies are also popular with bees, and you can't go wrong if you choose natives from your region, which are rich in nectar and pollen and have evolved with local insects. Dr. Nabhan's garden is full of ocotillos, mesquite and agave, which would be hard to grow in New York. But he also has oregano, clover, mustard, verbena, lantana, columbine, penstemons, wild gourds and squashes, passionflowers and chilies, to name a few. His buddleias are natives of the Chihuahuan desert; his pomegranate trees are heirloom varieties of the Southwest. For the species that once thrived in your area, call a native-plant society or nursery specializing in native plants. Bees are drawn to the bean or pea family, from snap peas to black locust and redbud trees, and they love the Compositae family, including sunflowers, dandelions, thistles, asters, daisies and goldenrod. Salvias and penstemons are favorites, too. Pollinator gardens could be consiousness-raising. When visitors to the National Zoo in Washington were recently surveyed, Dr. Buchmann said, three-quarters of them ''didn't know bees had to do with pollination -- they just saw bees as a threat.'' He added: ''And pollen was not seen as sex cells for the plant. It was associated with sneezing.'' The West has a phobia about ''little creepy crawlies,'' he said, adding: ''In China and Japan, people keep crickets in cages. They write poetry about them. If a cricket started chirping in our house, we'd call the exterminator or hit it with a shoe.'' But try to control your fight-or-flight response the next time an inch-long carpenter bee -- Dr. Buchmann calls it the ''gentle giant'' -- hovers around your head. It is solitary, and it pollinates everything from tomatoes to cotton. Give it a dead tree to dig into (don't worry about your house; it likes untreated wood). You can also simulate a dead tree by drilling holes -- about 5/16 inches in diameter and five inches deep -- in a piece of soft wood and hanging it in the shade. Mason bees, which use leaves and mud to build their nests, will pack the holes with eggs and pollen to feed their young. And they'll pollinate your fruit trees, too. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 11:03:18 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Al Needham Subject: Regarding EpiPen recall (Allen Dick Message) For info on EpiPen recall, in USA you can telephone: 1-800-240-5788 for details. If you have a browser, go to the Company Web Site for the "full Press Release" which specifies the specific lot numbers that are involved in the recall. All other lot numbers are regarded as okay. Also tells you what to do if your product is on the recall list. http://www.meridianmeds.com/DR10sk.htm Al, .................................................................... <"Mailto: awneedham@juno.com" > Scituate,Massachusetts,USA The Beehive-Educational Honey Bee Site Visit The Beehive Book Shoppe http://www.xensei.com/users/alwine _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 09:07:26 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Patrick O'Hearn Subject: Re: Sanitary requirements MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, The beekeepers in New Mexico were in limbo concerning sanitary requirements until last year. New Mexico's Food act had an exemption for raw fruits and veggies. If the state of Texas allows farmers markets, I would bet that there is a similar exemption in your food act. The New Mexico Beekeepers Association, with the help of friendly legislators ammended the act with the simple addition of a comma and the word honey following "fruits and vegetables". The ammendment makes it clear that anyone selling pure honey (nothing added) is exempt from the food act and its various requirements. I would add that the bill passed both houses of the legislature without ANY no votes...of course, the NMBKA has, for years, participated in Ag. Day at the legislature. Once a year we, along with the other ag producers have a reception for the legislators. We give away several hundred bottles of honey, and have an informational booth. It is one of the favorite booths there and goes a long way towards building good will and understanding of beekeepers value and problems. Check your food laws for exemptions and try to tag honey along with those exemptions. take care, Patrick M. O'Hearn Bears Choice Honey Bloomfield, New Mexico President New Mexico Beekeepers Association patrick@cyberport.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 12:48:57 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK Subject: Re: Bee Sting Allergy Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Doug, because you asked for comment, I will give mine, although some (particularly MD's) may be offended. Don't play around with a TRUE allergy to bee stings - you may only have 30 minutes to live! See an allergist, who specializes in bee stings like Drs. Golden and Valentine of Johns Hopkins in Baltimore, because MOST allergists know LITTLE about bee stings and primarily deal with hay fever, rag weed, and pollen. Most beekeepers know my story, but I will repeat it here. I started keeping bees as a scientific study 65 years ago, 1933, and 31 years later, 1964, then working about 60 colonies, making a shake swarm, I suddenly got about 30 stings, and went into a mild anaphylactic shock. A shot of adrenalin quickly restored me and the local MD advised me to "get rid of bees". I sought out medical specialists in bee stings, went through 130 shot program of desensitization, and told to get stung OFTEN to maintain my new immunity. For the last 33 years, I get stung once each day on purpose even in the winter, and if I get 20, 30, or 40 stings all at once, I do not swell, itch, and blood pressure does not change, BUT THEY STILL HURT! I am a retired scientist, not a MD, but this is my lay man's understanding. When I started in 1933, stings produced swelling and itching which lessened as I got more stings; but 30 years later, I had learned so much BEE BEHAVIOR that I was not getting stung very often and my developed immunity titer lost its volume from lack of use. Then I suddenly got a bunch of stings, and my body could not handle it. My choice was to continually pay allergist charges for venom shots, or get stung myself by my bees on purpose FREE. My wife of 54 years is diabetic and takes insulin shots to stay alive, so why can't I get stung every day and continue enjoying studying beekeeping procedures with my 100+ colonies? There are other examples of this same body response, e.g. a charter boat fishing captain, out on Chesapeake Bay 12-14 hours every day, never gets sunburned. I repeat, most local DOCTORS know very little about bee stings (JUST GET RID OF BEES), and most allergists are definitely not well informed about bee stings. If you ever have breathing problems a few minute after a sting, locate an allergist who specializes in bee sting therapy. If you were bitten by a rattle snake, surely you would find a doctor who specialized in snake bite therapy. Why not a specialist in bee sting therapy - there are not on every street corner, but they are out there. I have said enough, probably too much, as usual, but a strong nectar flow is on, so I have to run out to my home apiary and "supervise" my Carniolans. George Imirie ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 09:08:38 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Musashi Subject: paper straws for leafcutter bees Someone a while back suggested using paper straws for leafcutter bees to nest in. All I can ever find is plastic straws and they don't work well because they don't "breathe" and it's easy for things to mold. I've searched far and wide and have not found a source to buy paper straws. Can anyone tell me where paper straws can be purchased this day and age? Thanks, Layne Westover College Station, Texas ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 11:01:42 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Barrett Organization: banjobee books Subject: Transport of Hive/Colony Comments: To: Anthony.Morgan@iet.hist.no MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anthony, In 1995 I wrote THE book on how bees were shipped to Australia and New Zealand in the 19th Century. There are many pages in my book "The Immigrant Bees 1788 to 1898" which address your questions, illustrations too. Provide your mailing address and I will mail (too much to email) relevant sections to you. best regards, Peter Barrett, Sydney, Australia ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 16:43:17 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Midnitebee Subject: Patient info/allergic reactions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings! ok..so I got bored..it's been rainy in Maine for over a week..new article ..guess where it might be located?..that's right!..here:http://www.cybertours.com/~midniteee Article?..Patient Information on Allergic Reactions to stings from hornets,wasps,bees and yellow jackets. hey..the info is free, so is the 800#..watch for the "flashing" new icon..the jpg is a clickable link. Herb Holly-B Apiary P.O.Box 26 Wells,Maine 04090-0026 http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 15:11:43 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Patrick O'Hearn Subject: Attack of the Killer Drones MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello the list, I had an amusing (to me at least) experience over the weekend which caused me to think about smoke and alarm response. I was making splits, the weather was great, and the bees in a mellow mood. A little bit of smoke at the entrance, and a puff or two under the lid and I was able to make splits in shirtsleeves and shorts...was only stung once during about 4 hours of opening boxes, pulling frames, and shifting supers about. On the fifth or so hive, I smoked them lightly and opened the box whereupon I was jumped by about 10 drones. The workers were going about their business, ignoring me but these drones were acting like an agressive worker...the buzzing the face, the bumping into me,...all the actions a worker would take when mad enough to say "go away" but not yet mad enough to sting. This went on the entire time I was working on the hive and continued a little bit when I moved to the next hive. No queens in my pocket...no other hive acting the same way, just the one. In the past I have had one or two drones buzz and bump me from time to time but never this many and this concentrated an effort. Brought to mind several question though.... 1. If the actions were not aggression, what were they? The queens for the splits hadnt yet arrived so, no queen pheremone on me. My teeshirt was a neutral grey, no bright colors, no tiedye patterns. The other hives didnt invoke the same response so, maybe it was an aggressive response. Which then leads to 2. If the actions were aggression, why would a stingless drone act agressively? I can see a benifit for the hive...they are large, noisy bees and, to animals or humans who associate all bees with painful stings, they communicate the message "We are bees, leave us alone" very loudly. If they are swatted and killed, the hive is not out the investment in a worker. 3. If it was aggression, why didnt smoke calm them like it did their sisters? Anyway, for me that one of the fun parts of working with bees, these little oddball moments that cause you to do a doubletake and maybe think a bit about their actions and reactions. take care Patrick M. O'Hearn Bears Choice Honey Bloomfield, New Mexico patrick@cyberport.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 18:08:29 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Greg J Zujus Subject: Re: Bee Sting Allergy Being new at beekeeping all this talk of fatal or near fatal sting experiences has got me somewhat concerned. Does anyone know what percentage of beekeepers have had a reaction vs those that have not ? Were these people wearing protective clothing when they got stung ? Should I consult a Doctor and ask for an Epipen "just in case"? I have only been working bees a short time and I use a full jump suit and veil but have only been stung once. I have been stung probably at least once a year for the last 10 years (usually by wasps or hornets) and have never had a reaction. Is there any cause for concern ? _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 18:10:03 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CSlade777 Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 8 May 1998 to 9 May 1998 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Bee Sting Reactions. Hives is a worry and not to be ignored. If you consult your doctor you will be told to give up beekeeping. Doctors don't realise how addictive beekeeping is. I have been told that taking an antihistamine and aspirin before opening a hive will prevent difficult reactions. I am not in a position to confirm or deny the efficacy of this and suggest you ask your doctor after you've told him you are NOT giving up beekeeping. I have only had hives on one occasion after 2 stings. I have been stung many times since without this reaction, sometimes multiple stings. Generally at the beginning of the season I take two days swelling up after a sting and two days going down again. By the end of the season I am not sure whether I have been stung or caucht my finger on a splinter. One year I should experiment by getting myself stung occasionally during the winter months to see if it keeps my immunity up. My advice is persevere, but do it carefully. Try to get stung a little more frequently to build up your immumity and to avoid getting a phobia about being stung, but have a beekeeping buddy with you when you do, someone experienced enough to sort out any interesting incidents that may arise when you are stung. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 18:40:27 -0700 Reply-To: jcbach@yvn.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: James C Bach Subject: Bee sting allergy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greg Zujus questions how much he should be concerned about bee stings. I have been getting stung since 1960, sometimes many times each year. In my contact with beekeepers all these years I have only known about three who have developed a severe reaction to bee venom. They were usually persons who had only kept bees for a few years. I can't even estimate how many beekeepers I've known all these years but it has doubtless been several thousand. That is a pretty low percentage of allergic beekeepers. Given the percentage I'd say that you shouldn't get concerned about whether you are allergic or not. From the several talks I've heard from allergists, and my reading of publications from the American Apitherapy Society it seems that the suseptibility of persons to developing allergic reactions to bee venom can't be predicted. I'd say that you should be prepared with knowledge about reactions to bee venom because there are several stages of severity. And knowledge will prepare you so that you don't get overly excited if you do develop some low level of reaction. Some persons are prone to emotionly respond in a manner which will raise their heart beat rate. This may further increase the impact of the allergic response and can even result in a state of shock. James C. Bach 1503 Perry Loop #2 Yakima WA 98902-6108 jbach@agr.wa.gov jcbach@yvn.com 509 573 4245 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 07:38:31 +0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Yasin Yilmaz Organization: Bilkent Unversity - Computer Science Junior Subject: pollens ? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hello ... to prepare the pollen to store or consume, which procedures are necessary, how should they be dried ??? and what is the most natural way of doing that (i mean, without any chemicals :) tnx... Yasin from Turkiye ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 21:33:00 -0800 Reply-To: beeman@gci.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tom Elliott Organization: Home Subject: Re: Mouldy super-combs revisited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joel, > > Alas, some of my honey super combs are partially plugged with . . . hardened > white mass, and there is gray/black mould on some of the surfaces as well. > > Has anyone had luck with the bees removing this hardened material, or will > they ignore it? It is pretty hard to dig out. > In my experience they will often have to take the cells nearly down to the midrib to get the stuff out, but they will eventually do it. -- "Test everything. Hold on to the good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21) Tom Elliott Chugiak, Alaska U.S.A. beeman@gci.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 23:37:20 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert Watson Subject: bee meeting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII The Niagara Beekeepers' Association had as guest speaker tonight, Peter Donovan, the man who worked with Br. Adam at Buckfast Abbey for many years and who is now the head of the beekeeping programme there. He is in Canada for four weeks, speaking to beekeepers' groups and visiting and checking on the Canadian Buckfast breeders. He gave an interesting talk including some technical information about queen breeding. His talk was peppered with humourous stories. I will re-tell one of them. Pardon me if this is off topic! Br. Adam and Peter Donovan were going to an out-apiary one day. Br. Adam said they had a great deal of work to do and would be gone a long time, so it would be nice if they brought two bottles of sparkling mead along with them . (Buckfast Abbey is famous for its mead.) There was a stream near this beeyard that they took water from, to use in the making of mead. Br. Adam said, let's leave the mead in the stream , to keep it cool while we do our work. When they returned to the stream, the bottles were gone. Peter Donovan noticed that there were tents nearby, and suspected that some soldiers might have taken the mead. He called out when he saw a sergeant, and told him that some chemicals they had put in the river to chill had been taken ....... After they had been back at the Abbey for a while they received a call from the adjutant. He wanted to know what the antidote to those "chemicals" was. Peter Donovan told him that anyone who drank the "chemicals" should take two tablespoonfuls of castor oil!!! But that's not the end of the joke. He had told the sergeant near the beeyard, earlier in the day, that the "chemicals" were used to sterilise drones!!! (He wondered what the mead thiefs felt like after the sergeant told them what they had swallowed.) Regards, Rob Robert C.L. Watson rwatson1@npiec.on.ca pipe organ technician organist - choirmaster early woodwind player beekeeper homebrewer tenor ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 23:47:09 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Reddell Subject: Re: Bee Sting Allergy In-Reply-To: <04085626809644@systronix.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Allergy shots are definitely the way to go if you have a potentially life threatening reaction. My son developed an anaphylactic response last summer and is now getting shots. It takes about 2-3 years of shots to get permanently over the reaction but at that point it's pretty much history. The first shot in the series is very mild - 1/1000 of a single bee sting. But by the time you reach the mantenance dose in the second year you're getting the equivalent of 1000 stings, according to an allergist who spoke to our bee association last winter. By that point, you're long past being allergic. It takes about 2000 stings to cause toxic overload to the kidneys in a normal adult. This same allergist also stated emphatically that local pain, redness, and swelling are NOT allergic reactions, but rather, typical and normal reactions, even if extreme. To get the attention of an allergist, the reaction has to involve generalized (not localized at and extending contiguously from the sting site) symptoms such as anaphylaxis, hives, or remote swelling. Michael Reddell Michael ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 09:24:05 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "beekeeping.miningco.com" Subject: Beekeeping Interviews Hi Everyone, I just wanted to let you know that I'm interested in doing e-mail interviews with beekeepers around the world. If you or someone you know may be interested in an e-mail interview, that will be the feature story on my site for a week. Or if you would like to suggest a question for the interviews. Contact me, Please put "Bee Interview" into the subject line, as I get a ton of e-mail, Thanks. Kind Regards, Sherry Medders beekeeping.guide@miningco.com http://beekeeping.miningco.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 07:25:58 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Oliver Subject: Waxmoth MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I seem to have a bit of a problem I opened one of my hives today and found that waxmoth ate 3 combs, I did my best to clean up the box itself and removed the frames. Is there any type of treatment that can be done with bees in the box, This is a weak box due to the fact they were pushed for a regular bee box to the D.E. Hive. They are building up at a slow rate but the queen is laying in a good pattern. I was think of placing dead boards between the brood so they might be able to control the problem better then add frames as needed. I can't move them to another box due to the size difference between the two boxes. Ideas On treatment? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 12:03:39 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Hugo Aguirre Subject: Re: Bee Sting Allergy In-Reply-To: <04085626809644@systronix.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable George Imirie and the list: At 22:05 11/5/98 -0600, you wrote: >From: GImasterBK >To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > >Doug, because you asked for comment, I will give mine, although some >(particularly MD's) may be offended... >most local DOCTORS know very little about bee stings (JUST GET >RID OF BEES), and most allergists are definitely not well informed about= bee >stings. You are right, in the medical school do not teach us about the bees sting. We learn about it if we get the speciallization of allergy or we become beekeepers. Generally the bee sting is taked as a common sting, and that is the BIG MISTAKE, since that stings as two diferents results: 1.-) produce the same biological reaction as any othe strange subsstance inoculated into any animal body (like when a mosquito stings us or a flea on a dog) and 2.-) produce the effects of all the toxin's constituent (a lot of). >If you ever have breathing problems a few minutes after a sting, locate an >allergist who specializes in bee sting therapy. If you were bitten by a >rattle snake, surely you would find a doctor who specialized in snake bite >therapy. Why not a specialist in bee sting therapy - there are not on= every >street corner, but they are out there. Here is the point, I think. We pay attention to the alergic reaction and forget about the toxin (because we do not know about it). Have you heard about an animal who died because it was stang by a mosquito? And stang by bees? Now, what to do about this: Prevent the sting with bees's behavior considerations and good= proteccion. 30 drops of a propolis solution 2-3 hours before to handle the bees, plus 10 cc (JUST 10 CC) of any alcohol drink (vodka-wisky-gin-etc) will be a good protection too. >I have said enough, probably too much, as usual, but a strong nectar flow >is on, so I have to run out to my home apiary and "supervise" my= Carniolans. > > George Imirie No George, advising with experience never is too much. Keep in that way. I like carniolans, too. But up here I can not get them. Good season. =20 Hugo Aguirre beekeeper since 1970 somes times Gral. Phys. from 1968 hugoagui@sguillermo.datacop3.com.ar. San Guillermo-STA FE- Arg.(30=BAS-60=BAO) **************************************************************************** **** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 08:43:25 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Bee Stings Comments: cc: jschmidt@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Various people have commented about bee sting allergies and have generally provided good advice. My advice: Consult the following reference: ********** A chapter: Schmidt, Justin O. Allergy to venomous insects. Pages 1209-1269. IN: Graham, Joe M. 1992. THE HIVE AND THE HONEY BEE. Dadant & Sons., Hamilton, Illinois. (Revised Edition). ********** You won't find a better summary, I am sure. Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 893-2838 (UCSB office) Ecol., Evol., & Marine Biology (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Univ. of Calif., Santa Barbara (805) 963-8508 (home office & FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 *********************************************************************** * "...scientists are paradoxically resistant to change, even when * * confronted with evidence that virtually demands change of them." * * * * Barber, 1960 (in Greenberg, 1983) * *********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 13:05:17 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Subject: You Can't Believe Anything You Read In-Reply-To: <006901bd7cdc$b62e9f40$d832e8d0@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT If you dare. Here's a good example of a well meaning newspaper reporter garbling the question and the answer. I'm pretty sure these are not Shipman's words... > ''The bee doesn't know what it's doing. Its behavior is programmed, > not learned from other bees. Newly born bees do the waggling runs after > their first flights to find nectar, before ever seeing another bee > dance. Hmmm. Know? How could you ever tell? Programmed? That implies a programmer. Bee programmers are in very short supply on this planet. Last count: zero. Born? Hmmmm again. Bees are hatched, but then they are not bees, they are larvae. The larvae pupate. And then they emerge from the pupation as bees. Born? I think not. Not nearly. See? What can you see in a beehive? Not much. It's usually very dark in there. First flights? They are not made until the bee has considerable experience inside the hive. Who knows? Maybe they do 'see' a waggle dance before they go out. But then -- to change the subject a bit -- there is that famous waggle dance. Adrian does not think it is what everyone else -- including Dr. Shipman, I gather -- thinks. What exactly Dr. Wenner thinks this phenonemen is and signifies -- if anything -- is not at all clear. If I recall, the last time we got close to this one Adrian deflected us with something about function and that we think in terms of function, but in nature, things just are. Period. I wonder. C'mon Adrian what ARE those bees doing in there? And WHY? Allen -- Buy, sell, trade, get a job, hire help, announce a meeting, advertise a business or publication... For free *beekeeping related* classified ads, visit http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/BeeAds/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 22:32:39 -0500 Reply-To: ktate@geocities.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Kathy Tate Subject: Re: Texas Sanitary Requirements? MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hello fellow beekeepers, Today I contacted the Texas Health Department and found someone that could answer some of my questions about the rules regarding the sale of honey and the sanitary requirements involved. I was told that in Texas honey is a raw agricultural product until it is extracted and bottled at which time it becomes a manufactured food product. Once it is bottled and labeled, you can not give it away or sell it without a permit (I was so speechless, I failed to ask whether you could legally give it away without a label). When you put a picture of a bee, a picture of a skep or hive, or the word "honey" on the label, it can contain NO pollen, wax, or bee "parts". I asked about comb honey and was told that if it had the word "honey" on the label, it could contain no comb because it is not PURE honey and that the wax weighs less than honey and since honey is sold by weight, it could not legally be sold. The only way bee pollen could be sold would be as pure pollen. I asked if there was any provision for the person having only a couple of hives and was assured that Texas has no "cottage" or kitchen exemption. When we finally got to the sanitary requirements, those were similar to those of a restuarant (or dairy farm). The facility would be inspected probably once a year, possibly more often. One "good" thing, if you sell less than $10,000 in honey per year, the permit fee is only $25. I realize I could have misunderstood or misinterpreted some of the things I was told and encourage anyone interested to call the manufactured foods division at the health department in Austin (512-719-0243). Now, other than contact my state representatives, does ANYONE have any suggestions on how to get this changed. If you do, PLEASE let me know! Thanks! Kathy and Johnny Tate Stephenville, TX ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 20:40:02 -0700 Reply-To: jcbach@yvn.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: James C Bach Subject: Re: Waxmoth MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The box itself should be cleaned with a sharp hive tool. What do you mean by a weak box? If it is weak it should be thrown in the burn pile. What do you mean by "they were pushed for a regular bee box to the D.E. Hive? Who is they? You say they are building up at a slow rate but the queen is laying a good pattern. If they are building up slowly the queen is poor regardless of the brood pattern. Good brood patterns can hide 35 percent brood surviability. The best treatment for wax moths in a hive of bees is more bees and a good queen. JCB ---------- > From: Bob Oliver > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Waxmoth > Date: Tuesday, May 12, 1998 6:25 AM > > I seem to have a bit of a problem I opened one of my hives today and found > that waxmoth ate 3 combs, I did my best to clean up the box itself and > removed the frames. Is there any type of treatment that can be done with > bees in the box, This is a weak box due to the fact they were pushed for a > regular bee box to the D.E. Hive. They are building up at a slow rate but > the queen is laying in a good pattern. I was think of placing dead boards > between the brood so they might be able to control the problem better then > add frames as needed. I can't move them to another box due to the size > difference between the two boxes. > > Ideas On treatment? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 20:49:39 -0700 Reply-To: jcbach@yvn.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: James C Bach Subject: Drying bee pollen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yasin Yilmaz asks about ways to dry pollen for market or consumption. The folks around here use a number of different drying machines, factory or home made. They all move air through the pollen at a slow rate to carry off the moisture. Some have a heating device which is usually set fairly cool, maybe 80 degrees Fahrenheit. Ambient temperatures here would be in the 50 to 60 F. range, with rain likely anytime, while beekeepers are drying the pollen. When the ambient temperatures are in the 80s the pollen drys faster. The trick is to monitor the pollen so that the pollen is soft and dry when crushed between the fingers, not hard or brittle. James C. Bach Yakima WA jbach@agr.wa.gov jcbach@yvn.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 23:49:02 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: paul s leroy Subject: trachael mite treatment MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Would some of the people on the list who have been using FGMO please talk about the effect of FGMO on trachael mites? Maybe it has been posted recently but Iif so I missed it. Thanks, Paul LeRoy in S.C. USA. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 03:12:35 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Attack of the Killer Drones In-Reply-To: <005401bd7d25$3ab82310$1a5e86cc@bz8lb.cbnm.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > On the fifth or so hive, I smoked them lightly and opened the box > whereupon I was jumped by about 10 drones. If you have an excluder on the hive and some drone brood has been left above it to hatch -- and if your equipment does not have the leaks that much commercial equipment has -- then the drones cannot get out to fly after they hatch. That is until you open the lid; they can then explode out of the hive like a bomb going off when you lift the lid. This particularly true if there are many, if they have been pent up for long, and if it happens to be a hot day. I don't know if this is what you experienced, but might help explain it. Allen -- Buy, sell, trade, get a job, hire help, announce a meeting, advertise a business or publication... For free *beekeeping related* classified ads, visit http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/BeeAds/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 13:20:37 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=F8rn_Johanesson?= Subject: Updated win31 Bidata (Multilingual) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear all win31 users! I Promissed to inform You when the win31 edition of the hivenotesoftware was done. It is now on the server and the ur are as follows : ftp://ftp.wn.com.au/edbi/updates/upwin31.exe I have not yet added it to my url so you can use this :-) You must be aware of that the full archive is requiered too together with the BDE tools. Those urls are as follows : for the hivenote archive ftp://ftp.wn.com.au/bidata/win31pg/bidat31.exe and for the database tools ftp://ftp.sunet.se/pub/Science/Agriculture/beenet/databas1.zip regards Jorn Johanesson Beekeeper since 1970 EDBi = Beekeeping software since 1986 homepages http://wn.com.au/apimo http://home4.inet.tele.dk/apimo e-mail apimo@post4.tele.dk ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 09:02:47 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mitchell Subject: B. J. Sheriff Junior Apiarist suits In-Reply-To: <08354872913310@systronix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone know of a supplier of B.J. Sheriff Junior Apiarist suits in the U.S. besides Brushy Mountain Bee Farm. I just called them and they have this suit backordered for 2 - 3 weeks. I'd like to get a suit quicker than that if possible. Thank you! Deanna Mitchell Mitchell Family Farm Pastured Poultry, Rabbits, Dairy Goats, Honey & Beef Cherryvale, Kansas dteach@horizon.hit.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 10:03:42 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Sheriff bee suits MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT You might want to check with David Eyre (Beeworks). I'm not sure what he has in stock, but delivery time is good and you'll make out well with the exchange rate. Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 10:11:53 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "beekeeping.miningco.com" Subject: Wild Bee's Infested with Varroa Mites Good Morning Everyone, In my chat room this morning, a gentleman had a very good question for me, I'm only a beekeeping quide, I am not an expert and I now better than to answer questions like this, so I'm asking for your expert opinions. I asked him to send me a note. Any help as to an answer would be most appreicated. Sherry Medders beekeeping.guide@miningco.com On a wildlife center on Grizzley island (35 miles NE of san Francisco) we have a wild hive in an Eucalyptus tree which has existed for eight or nine years. We often use the hive as a demonstration for school children, explaining the function of the European honey bee. These bees are always readily apparent during the flowering season, but a serious decline in the population of the hive has led me to discover the presence of the Varroa Jacobsoni mite. I would like to know if there is a way to disinfect the hive and restore it to health? The hive itself is well hidden inside a hollow of the tree and the entrances are small, prohibiting access to the interior of the hive. I would appreciate some advice on how to proceed. Thanks Art ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 11:06:59 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Bartlett Subject: Honey and regulations MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <> That is why it is best to keep honey out of government hands, at least for the small beekeeper. You will probably find that "they" can come and inspect your honey house when ever they want. How many of us use our kitchen for our honey house? Do you want people coming and inspecting your kitchen? There has to be rules for small beekeepers. People who try to make the laws regarding honey do not have the insight to make the laws unless they are beekeepers and understand all the ramifications of their decisions. Billy bee ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 14:57:35 -0700 Reply-To: gclewis@penn.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Gary C. Lewis" Subject: Re: Attack of the Killer Drones MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Patrick, I too have drones that are acting "Tuff". Never have seen this before. There are also many drones that are much more active than in other hives I have had in the past. Find many buzzing around out in front of the hives. Hives are queen right, Guess it's a male bee thing. Tired of beeing in the back seat all these thousands of years. The number of drones to workers seems to be in balance no large number of drone cells. Just more of them being seen outside and moving around inside the hives. Gary C. Lewis Duke Center, Pa. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 13:44:20 -0800 Reply-To: beeman@gci.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tom Elliott Organization: Home Subject: Re: Texas Sanitary Requirements? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kathy Tate wrote: > I asked if there was any provision for the person having only a couple > of hives and was assured that Texas has no "cottage" or kitchen > exemption. I would suggest that a group of hobbiests get together and lobby to get a "Cottage Industry" provision added to the Texas statutes. It would take a significant investment of time, but would pay off in the long run if you could get it established. Perhaps others may be aware of such provisions in their state, and provide you with copies. I will see if I can find what the Alaska law provides. -- "Test everything. Hold on to the good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21) Tom Elliott Chugiak, Alaska U.S.A. beeman@gci.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 21:02:39 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Frederick L. Hollen" Subject: Re: Sheriff bee suits In-Reply-To: <980513.100548.EDT.SYSAM@cnsibm.albany.edu>; from "Aaron Morris" at May 13, 98 10:03 am According to Aaron Morris: > > You might want to check with David Eyre (Beeworks). I'm not sure what > he has in stock, but delivery time is good and you'll make out well > with the exchange rate. > > Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! > ON december 10, 1996, I ordered that exact beesuit from David by e-mail, asking him if there was any way I could get it by Christmas for my son. He e-mailed back the same day, saying he had forwarded the order to Sherriff in England and he thought it would arrive by Christmas. Sent by Air Parcel Post($14 shipping charge) it was in my mailbox in Virginia, USA on December 19. David then billed me when he got the invoice from Sherriff. Even with the shipping cost it was less expensive then listed in the U. S. catalogs. I was most impressed with this fine service and encourage you to contact david & see what he can do. Fred ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 21:27:27 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Bartlett Subject: Re: trachael mite treatment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Paul, Looks like not too many want to answer your query. I think they may refrain because they get too much flack. This is an unsubstantiated treatment. I lost so many bees the past years that I was willing to try something and what Dr. Rodriquez was saying sounded good. I have used nothing but FGMO since last Spring. I started with 15 hives and lost one so far and I don't think it was from mites. We had a very unusual winter here in MD, USA, so it is pretty hard to put too much stock in just one year and just me with no scientific evidence and control hives and nothing but the seat of my pants. I am only a hobbiest and can do what I want with my time and energy. The hives that made it through the winter all looked good except one. That is more then I have been able to say for the past several years. Now I thought I was going to get a honey crop this year because the bees looked so good. We just finished 13 rainy days in a row. It stayed cloudy and cool and rained off and on for 13 days! The bees hardly flew in my neck of the woods. Just can't win for losing. FGMO?------ Just keep watching this list. There are others who are trying the FGMO too and they will let us know. And maybe somebody will do a good scientific study on it. One thing I can say is that as far as the Mites themselves go, there is no resistance to FGMO. No more than you have resistance to a Mack Truck (big American truck). What other problems may arise from the use of FGMO, I do not know. I'll be back when I have more info. billy bee ---------- > From: paul s leroy > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: trachael mite treatment > Date: Tuesday, May 12, 1998 11:49 PM > > Would some of the people on the list who have been using FGMO please > talk about the effect of FGMO on trachael mites? Maybe it has been posted > recently but Iif so I missed it. Thanks, Paul LeRoy in S.C. USA. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 22:51:58 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: FAITHAB Subject: Re: Bee facts Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Awhile ago I had a sheet entitled "Fun Facts about Honeybees" I used it when I spoke to school groups. It may have come from Dadant. I need it for my column in Country Living's July Issue (an article on how children grow up to be beekeepers). Does anyone have a copy. Dadant folk, if you are out there, could you email me the info? Or fax it? Thanks very much for any help anyone can give me. Faith Andrews Bedford, Ivy Va and Tampa ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 23:24:05 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Al Needham Subject: Re: Texas What is it with Texas that seems to make it feel like a very restrictive place insofar as Beekeeping and its products are concerned ? (This is based on BEE-L messages I have seen in recent months) I always thought of Texas as retaining some of that old Wild West attitude towards Government, as still exists to some extent in places like Montana. Jerry B.... How does Montana stack up in comparison to this ridiculous Texas over-regulation ? Al, ..................................................................... <"Mailto: awneedham@juno.com" > Scituate,Massachusetts,USA The Beehive-Educational Honey Bee Site Visit The Beehive Book Shoppe http://www.xensei.com/users/alwine _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 13:16:24 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Marc Sevigny Subject: Re: You Can't Believe Anything You Read MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable First flights? They are not made until the bee has considerable experience inside the hive. Who knows? Maybe they do 'see' a waggle dance before they go out. [Marc Sevigny] Do they ever *see* them? It is completely dark inside = the hive, so they must be "sensing" the dance rather than "seeing" it. = Right? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 03:18:02 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Subject: Leafcutter/Honey Bee Competition MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I'm wondering what insight list members may have on the coexistence of Alfalfa leafcutter bees and honey bees. We'll be placing hives on Canola fields where leafcutters are also being placed and wonder how much interaction is likely to take place. Are leafcutters heavy consumers of pollen or nectar? Are there diseases in common? Allen ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 13:05:18 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Bee sting - do you trust your doctor/capitalist Hi All I recently read an article in fortune 500 about the medical fraternities treatment of ulcers and it set me thinking about the bee allergy industry. (Anybody with ulcers check out www.fortune.com and search for ulcers - one can find out how to treat the cause rather than the symptoms - it costs many $1000 to treat symptoms and about $50 to treat the cause - of course treating symptoms is the popular choice of doctors!!) The body has a natural response to most foreign objects that enter the body, namely the production of antibodies to them. It produces antibodies so as to kill the foreign object, and not the body itself. Hence any system that could potentially kill the body instead is ralatively well regulated and hardly ever actually kills the individual. In africa we have honey gatherers. I have peronally spoken to many many honey gatherers and have asked them if they know of anybody who has died from bee stings. Very few even have heard of such a death. These are usually primative people, using little medication who are exposed to many stings on account of the fact that bees are racist animals and sting black people in a higher proportion to white. Howcome then if in the same country I ask any white, and they, or their nearest family member are allergic?? Because they have money to spare and any old doc can prescribe an epipen and 60 cellestamine tabs to them, tell them they will die next time they get stung if they don't eat the cellestamine (which does nothing except cause some rather serious mental side effects in some individuals that can only be cured by treatment by knowledgeable GP's who will prescribe expensive pills again and so on.) Here doctors will tell a person who gets a minor welt that they are allergic - Medical aid pays for the medication and the doc makes a few hundred more to pay for his beach mansion and private schooling for kids. I was diagnosed as allergic - since that diagnosis I have had in excess of 5000 stings (often more than 70 a day with a record of 180) and never had the slightest side effect other than a lack of flu and colds and occasional rattyness after bad stinging events. There is a myth that the effects of bee stings are cumulative and that the number of stings taken to reach allergic status is finite. A bit of research in scandinavia somewhere (wow bees up there!) showed that beekeepers who got more than 130 stings a year were reasonable safe, but that the 30 a year and lower cetegory were in the risky region. Hence my belief about the whole bee allergy thing is that it is just another happy example of how a fad orientated culture can be hijacked by money making companies to the detriment of an agricultural industry. (pretty much like salmonella in eggs - levels are now ten times higher than when it was fashionable not to eat eggs because of salmonella - mad cow disease and so on. Notice how mad cow disease arrived just after it became impossible for britain to export mutton to france??) So sure, if you get a funny bump from a sting take precautions (practice safe beekeeping - no holes in gloves etc) - but - the best medication after a bad bee sting is another one - this will boost the bodies population of regulator t cells - the ones that block the histamine response preventing anaphylaxis better than anything else. (And it will be much faster than gimmicky and money spinnerish venom therapy - another example of bad medical practice) And as a last little thing - the only place capitalism should not be directly applied is in the medical field. It is open to too much corruption. Just my two cents. Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis Eastern Cape Prov. South Africa Time = Honey ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 06:53:17 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Barry Richards Subject: Re: Texas Sanitary Requirements? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tom Elliot wrote: >I would suggest that a group of hobbiests get together and lobby to get >a "Cottage Industry" provision added to the Texas statutes. It would >take a significant investment of time, but would pay off in the long run >if you could get it established. Now is the time for you to go back to the reporter that ran the original story on your beekeeping operation and tell them what has happened as a result. A follow-up story decrying the unfair statutes in light of the crisis confronted by beekeepers could quickly get the attention of legislators in your area. This is one of those issues where it would be easy for a legislator to look good, taking on the potent anti-honeybee sector :) Let us know what happens. -Barry Richards ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 08:26:27 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Debbie Gaynor Subject: aggressive bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" HI, We are new at beekeeping. My husband had talked about trying for several years. For Christmas I bought him a beehive. He was so excited that he bought another one right away. He ordered bees from two different suppliers. The first set are very quiet. Several were dead when they were delivered. But all appear to be healthy so far. The second set had few dead ones and are extremely aggressive. Is this normal? Do bees have their own personalities? The more aggressive ones are also extremely healthy. I've enjoyed reading the list and the information is invaluble. Thanks so much. Debbie Gaynor Owensboro Community College Library 4800 New Hartford Rd Owensboro, KY 42303 502-686-4448 dagayn01@pop.uky.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 09:32:20 -0300 Reply-To: eunice.wonnacott@pei.sympatico.ca Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Eunice Wonnacott Subject: Re: You Can't Believe Anything You Read MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Marc Sevigny wrote: > > First flights? They are not made until the bee has considerable > experience inside the hive. Who knows? Maybe they do 'see' a waggle > dance before they go out. > > [Marc Sevigny] Do they ever *see* them? It is completely dark inside the hive, so they must be "sensing" the dance rather than "seeing" it. Right? On the other hand.... Have you ever been in a dark hall, for instance, while a closed door, not quite down to the floor in length, has a light on in the room on the other side of the door? I expect if you were to lie down at eye level to the opening, you might see quite a lot of the contents of the room. (Walk a mile in the other's moccasins?) From the perspective of the bee walking on the bottom board, there may indeed be quite a lot of light there. There could even be a special odor, to signal these particular bees to come to the light, to get the message?? There is so much we do not know.....That's what makes it so interesting. Eunice ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 14:18:52 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pailleux Nicolas Subject: Contact MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, I don't know if you remind me, I have sent a mail few weeks ago in witch I was looking for a job for this summer in beekeeping, to increase my english, I am a french student. Finally, I will work in a Park in Santa Cruz in California because it was the best choice for me. That's why I want to know if there is some beekeepers who are located near San Cruz. I would visit them, and if possible see how they work. I am going to have some days rest and I would like to increase my knowledge in beekeeping !!! Many thanks Nicolas Pailleux e-mail : pailleux@gprhp.insa-lyon.fr France ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 09:27:46 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Musashi Subject: Re: aggressive bees Debbie Gaynor asks: Do bees have their own personalities? They definitely do, and there is a lot of variability. After beekeeping for a while with several hives, you learn what to expect from your different bees and how to handle them. I have a Buckfast hive where the bees are so gentle that I have never smoked them and have worked them with no gloves without being stung. I also have a wild-caught swarm that I will never work without a full bee suit with gloves and lots of smoke and I still sometimes get stung. That's one of the things that makes beekeeping so interesting--there's so much variability that you can have a great variety of fascinating experiences. It adds spice to life. If your aggressive bees are altogether too aggressive, you can requeen with a gentler queen. Some beekeepers say that the more active (aggressive) bees are also the better honey producers, better housekeepers and harder workers. As long as I can still enjoy working with them, I will keep some of the more "active" bees as well as the gentler ones. The challenge of learning how to deal with them and control them is also fun and results in a great sense of accomplishment. Layne Westover College Station, Texas ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 09:04:26 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Rosenbaum Subject: Re: Bee sting - do you trust your doctor/capitalist In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 14 May 1998, Garth wrote: > I recently read an article in fortune 500 about the medical... ... > Here (...in Africa...)doctors will tell a person who gets a minor welt > that they are allergic - ... > And as a last little thing - the only place capitalism should not be > directly applied is in the medical field. It is open to too much > corruption. In response, I would say: 1) Do *not* look to the capitalist rag "Fortune 500" for scientific/medical information. 2) A doctor (or anybody) who equates a minor welt with beesting allergy is seriously misinformed. 3) At least in the US, most individual physicians struggle daily to honor their oath to take care of their patients, in spite of all of the ever-increasing intrusions of capitalist (profit-motive) interests in the "health care industry." Best wishes, David Rosenbaum Seattle, WA. USA experienced physician, novice beekeeper ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 09:52:51 -0700 Reply-To: jcbach@yvn.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: James C Bach Subject: Texas Sanitary Requirements MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kathy Tate gives us a verbal rendition of what she heard by calling the state health department. Kathy, and others, your work isn't finished yet. I was very serious in a previous post when I suggested that you acquire a copy of the stututes and rules on the subject of sanitation. I have found that inspectors often know practically nothing about the bee industry and cannot adequately interpret the statutes, especially at a moments notice over the phone. Most statutes are written with other industries in mind not honey or pollen. Remember all statutes are never written in a manner to cover all situations, and they are INTERPRETED by the inspectors which means that others such as yourself or me, may interpret them quite differently. Also, in many cases, they will give you the information in response to how they interpret your question. It is often necessary to ask questions from several directions on the same issue to receive a comprehensive explanation of the language. Here in Washington, honey is a raw product through the extraction and bottling process as long as it is not heated other than in the heat room and extraction process. Once the honey crystallizes and is heated to bottle it, then it becomes a manufactured product. But, I'll bet that someone has a different interpretation than what I have been able to get from the food inspection manager. That is because they have never had to interpret the law in this situation. And the law doesn't include the word honey, and was not intended to, which leaves it open to interpretation. The official's statement that NO pollen can be in honey shows the lack of knowledge about honey and is clearly an interpretation, or opinion, of the statute language. Opinions are not enforceable. The same thing can be said about the statement that comb honey can't contain comb. The official's statement that pollen could only be sold as pure pollen may also be questioned. What does pure mean? Does it mean in a natural form? That would eliminate pollen pills which have been manufactured, and probably sold throughout Texas. The statement that Texas has no cottage or kitchen exemption, does not mean that a cottage or kitchen industry doesn't exist. It means that an exemption has not been considered, or written into law. This merely means either that the issue has not come up in the recent experience of the official, or he didn't take the time to explore with you how they handle small entrepreneaurs, or that no one has ever raised the issue before, at least in a manner to get an official interpretation of statute intent. Don't take the official's word for it, ask for a copy of the statutes and rules. You will probably find that your issues are not directly addressed by the statute. That means that any enforcement in your situation may be questioned by an administrative procedure hearing officer. Now, how do you get the statute and rules changed? 1. Thoroughly school yourself in the language used in the statute and rules. 2. Make a list of all your questions, and real or hypothetical situations. 3. Have two or three persons meet with the official and go over the statute and rule language with him to determine how much latitude he is taking in interpreting the text. 4. Ask all your questions giving several hypotheticals for each, and write down the answers. 5. Give the official as much knowledge about the bee industry as you can. This should include how beekeepers with a few hives extract and bottle honey, how those with 1,000 hives do it, and how the packers operate. 6. Determine the issues, and parts of the text, which leave the official uncomfortable, or where he agrees the language is unclear (and may be unenforcable). 7. Propose that you and/or he write some draft language that would better address your issues. 8. Work with the local and state beekeepers associations to inform them of your issues and your discussion with the health department and solicit their cooperation in making the necessary changes. 9. Develop a consensus among beekeepers about how the issues are to be resolved, and a consensus on the draft language you will propose. 10. Meet with the appropriate official to propose that the language in the statute be revised by the legislature, and/or propose that the public hearing process be started to revise the administrative rule language. 11. If you have an Apiary Advisory Committee which works with the department of agriculture on bee related issues, have the Committee invite the health department officials to discuss the honey production, packing, and marketing issues. Propose your solution and proposed language and ask them to begin the process to change the statute and rules. James C. Bach WSDA State Apiarist Yakima WA jbach@agr.wa.gov jcbach@yvn.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 07:30:05 +1200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mark Horsnell Subject: automated uncapping systems Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" i'm afraid the days of my old steam powered uncapping knife (and the muscles in my arms & neck!!!!) are numbered. does anyone have, or know of any websites that have, pictures and/or plans of automated systems/machinery for uncapping frames just before the extracting process. thanx in advance, mark ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 13:55:42 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Blane White Subject: TX sanitary requirements Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi All, I feel that Jim Bach's good comments should be followed with an observation= from here in Minnesota on this issue. Here in MN liquid extracted honey and comb honey are considered to be raw = agricultural products covered by a provision in our food inspection law = that allows sale of raw agricultural products from the farm without any = requiremnets. If sales of honey take place off the farm ( beekeepers = home) the honey must be properly labeled but for liquid honey and comb = honey that is the only requirements. For processed products like creamed = honey the processing must be done in a licensed food processing facility = such as a bakery. The beekeeper does not need to own the facility the = requirement is that the processing in done in such a facility. Also in MN = most of the food inspection is done by the Dept of Agriculture not the = Health Department. You should contact your Department of Agriculture to = see if they in fact are the ones that license and inspect such facilities.= =20 FWIW blane ************************************************ Blane White Minnesota Department of Agriculture St Paul, MN blane.white@state.mn.us ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 17:33:33 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: USDA Honey & Bee Condition reports Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" If you are interested in the value of Honey or how conditions for bees looked last month the USDA Honey Market reports can be found at: http://beenet.com Take your time and enjoy some of the features found just for you. If you can't laugh or groan because of a frozen face then this site is not for you. Hidden among the offal is the requested and most recent picture from the back files of the OLd Drone. If you find it you must be one of those lucky one with an unlimited Internet account. ttul, the OLd Drone