========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 10:39:01 -0700 Reply-To: jcbach@yvn.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: James C Bach Subject: Leafcutter/Honey Bee Competition MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Allen Dick asks about the interaction between leafcutter bees and honey bees on canola. Leafcutter bees usually forage only 40 to 50 feet from their nest boards according to a prodigious amount of work done on the bee by the state university here. Leafcutters are used here for alfalfa seed production. Honeybees in large numbers are placed all over the seed production area to produce honey. The research seems to show that honeybees can gather nectar from the flower up to the point that the flower is pollinated, or tripped, by the leafcutter bee. Nectar production stops at this time. Honeybees only trip about 10 percent of the bloom they visit (as I recall the literature) because they avoid getting hit by the trigger which scatters pollen on the pollinator. The educated honey bee goes into the side of the bloom to get the nectar. Now, about the interaction of the two bees. My observations suggest that leafcutters do not forage well in the immediate vicinity of an apiary if it is placed alongside the field because of the heavy honeybee flight activity. This has been interpreted by some to indicate that honeybees "push" leafcutters from the area thus reducing pollination and seed set. I have never observed "pushing" or direct interactions between the two bees. But I have observed that where honeybees are in large numbers 150-300 feet around an apiary, leafcutters tend to stay away. I have never observed a situation where a leafcutter board shelter was placed next to an apiary, or vice versa, so I can't describe bee interaction in that kind of situation. The research data shows that significantly lower amounts of seed are harvested on that portion of the field next to the honeybee apiary. Observations also show that if the hives are placed away from the fields by several hundred feet, preferably several hundred yards (metres), that honeybees spread out to forage and both bees can be seen in the alfalfa. Leafcutter bees do have a strain of chalkbrood very similar to honeybee chalkbrood but they are not the same. They are not known to have other diseases in common. James C. Bach WSDA State Apiarist Yakima WA jbach@agr.wa.gov jcbach@yvn.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 15:41:02 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Eduardo Braunstein Subject: Re: List of Bee Lists Comments: cc: Bestofbee@systronix.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Excerpts from BEE-L wrote: > > Forum-lists on Bees and Beekeeping and related > Forums-listes sur les Abeilles et autres ... Hi all ! LISTA DE APICULTURA EN ESPANIOL fue omitida. APICULTURE LIST IN SPANISH was omitted. To join them send a mail containing: 1. Your full name. 2. Your E-Mail. 3. Your city and country. To: malka@webnet.com.ar Best regards, Eduardo ----- Eduardo Braunstein bq803677@bed.buenayre.com.ar ARGENTINA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 18:44:34 -0700 Reply-To: rsrolfne@atnet.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Bob, W7VZX" Subject: AES Report on Mites? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings All - I'm a farm type in the central part of Washington State, USA and have 5 hives as a hobby and learning experience. I have enjoyed and learned a lot from this very fine group. Thanks all. Recently I noticed the following article in a monthly newsletter published by our local Argicultural Cooperative-Extension Service people. Anyone know of or able to give a better run down on the exact method and when it will be approved by the EPA here in the USA? Costs? Etc.? "VARROA AND TRACHAEL MITES are parasitic pests that threaten both cultured and feral honeybee populations across the U.S. New USDA research using formic acid in a gel formulation as a control for mites in hived bees offers hope for managing the two pests with a single treatment. Currently only fluvalinate, for varroa mites and menthol for trachael mites are approved control measures by EPA. With the new methode, the formic acid gel in a plastic bag is opened inside the hive where it evaporate over time to eradicate parasitic mites, leaving behind only a harmless residue." Any Information? Thanks all Regards, Bob ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 21:14:47 -0500 Reply-To: morty@dynanet.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mortimer B Lipton Subject: Re: trachael mite treatment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Bill Bartlett Could you tell us how and with what frequency you applied FGMO............. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 21:22:42 +0200 Reply-To: drs@kulmbach.baynet.de Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Dr. Reimund Schuberth" Subject: Re: aggressive bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Debbie > He ordered bees from two different suppliers. The first set are very quiet. > Several were dead when they were delivered. But all appear to be healthy so > far. The second set had few dead ones and are extremely aggressive. Is > this normal? Do bees have their own personalities? The more aggressive > ones are also extremely healthy. It depends on the quality of the breed (and breeder) what kind of bees you get. Aggressivity or gentleness have little to do with healthy to my opinion. Although bees should bring in some honey this isn't the only thing you should be looking for. Most beekeepers have bees as a hobby. They want to have fun and don't want to get in conflicts with neighbours, so it is also important that the bees are not aggressiv. You should ask other beekeepers where you can get gentle honeybees. Surely there are some breeders, that can send you the queens you wish. To my experience gentle pure-breed honey-bees will probably become more aggressive within some generations if you cannot control the mating of the queens. 100% control of the mating is only possible by insemination or special mating stations. I hope you'll have more luck next time. Sincerely Dr. Reimund Schuberth ______________________________ Beekeeper in Germany (Bavaria) Queen Rearing of Carniolan Bees Insemination Station ______________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 08:46:39 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Roger Flanders Subject: Pollination Books Sought MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Could anyone offer advice on where I might obtain copies of these two books: (1) S.E.McGregor's book "Insect Pollination of Cultivated Crop Plants," Agriculture Handbook No. 496 USDA, 1976, published by the Government Printing Office, but now out of print; and (2) "American Honey Plants" by F.C. Pellett? I'd also appreciate any suggestions on wildflowers as nectar and pollen sources. Thanks. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 10:31:42 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: AHworkerB Subject: Re: Pollination Books Sought Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit You might try Larry Connor at B.E.S. at: ljconnor@aol.com He has some of the MacGregor but Pellett is scarce. You might want to place a "want ad" in the bee journals for that one. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 10:19:22 -0400 Reply-To: kferner@mcls.rochester.lib.ny.us Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: kferner Subject: Thanks and a question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks to all of you who helped me with ideas on how to do a "beekeeping" presentation. It went over very well and I had a great response. The audience consisted of all the Children's librarians from various town and branch libraries. One librarian suggested I make sure I mention that a child under 2 years old should not eat honey. I just read a response to a letter from someone with the same question in the recent ABJ and it basically said it wasn't just honey. I will soon be doing these presentations for children and their parents at the various libraries. Now everyone is curious for more information on this subject and I was wondering if there is an article on it. I have read (somewhere) that it is a fallacy that honey is harmful to infants and I want to prove it (or clear up my thinking) with some documentation. The fact that I KNOW of beekeepers that give their infants honey wouldn't be enough for this librarian. Any help is appreciated. Thanks again! Karen ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 10:32:36 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Formic gel Bob asked about the formic acid gel preparation developed by the USDA, and when it will be available to the public. From a confidential and very reliable source, I understand that the USDA has licensed the technology to two US beekeeping supply firms. They, in turn, must obtain EPA certification (or license, or whatever), and develop or purchase the manufacturing capability. I am led to believe the EPA clearance will not be a problem, but it surely must involve some paperwork. The most optimistic projection I have heard is for the gel being available this coming fall. I personally think that the spring of 1999 is more realistic. My understanding is also that the gel will be totally effective against tracheal mite, but only 80% effective against Varroa. I believe the hope is that beekeepers will be able to use the gel in the spring, against both mites, and reduce Apistan use to once a year, in the fall. In the fall, Varroa populations are at their highest and it is important to get a 99% kill in preparation for the winter. There is some thinking that use once a year, instead of twice, will slow Varroa resistance to fluvalinate. I do not know if use of the gel will let beekeepers stop the summer-long use of grease patties. In my opinion, it is unlikely that the gel will sell for much less than the equivalent cost of Apistan. The best I am hoping for is that the gel will stop the annual price increases we have been seeing. Lloyd LloydSpear@email.msn.com Owner, Ross Rounds the finest in comb honey production. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 15:38:12 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: IBRA Subject: IBRA Newsletter #2 Comments: To: IBRA News List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT %%%%% IBRA Newsletter number 2 %%%%% --------------------------------------------------------------------- Welcome to the second IBRA newsletter giving you the latest information about IBRA's activities. <<<< Beeswax & Propolis >>>> The usual way beekeepers add profit to the pleasure they get from their bees is by selling honey - but bees don't just make honey - beeswax and propolis are valuable bee products, if you know what to do with them. IBRA's latest publication 'Beeswax & Propolis for Pleasure and Profit' edited by Pamela Munn, a follow up to an IBRA conference held in October last year, tells you just this. Often beekeepers just throw away beeswax cappings and scrapings because they don't know what to do with them. What a waste! Beeswax is a valuable commodity in the world marketplace and is in short supply. Brain Reynolds, a commercial wax refiner, tells about refining beeswax from all over the world. Morna Stoakley is well known by British beekeepers for her skill in candlemaking takes you through the process from 'Mess to Money'. For centuries propolis has been used for its healing properties, but what is the fact behind the myth? Peter Houghton of the Pharmacognasy department at Kings College London, gives the facts. Propolis is widely available in healthfood shops and James Fearnley, formerly of Bee Health, UK, tells his own story about developing a multimillion pound commercial product. Rainer Krell, author of 'Value-added Products from Beekeeping' gives practical information and advice on producing your own propolis products. Beeswax & Propolis for Pleasure and Profit is available now from the IBRA BookShop. E-mail credit-card orders (Visa/Mastercard/Eurocard) are welcome. The price for delivery to a UK address is GB Pounds 5.70. Delivery to anywhere else: add 10% for surface mail or 15% for airmail. Contact Sue (please put BookShop in the subject line of your e-mail) at IBRA: ibra@cardiff.ac.uk <<<< Bee World >>>> The May issue of Bee World contains some very good articles, and topical news and views. Here are a few snippets: Peter Molan of Waikato University, New Zealand, has written an excellent review on the limitations of the methods currently used to identify floral sources of honeys. The pollen grains in honey reveal the types of plants that were around when the bees produced the honey, and so it is valid to use melissopalynology (pollen analysis) to determine the geographical origin of honeys, but Peter explains why it is less valid for determining the botanical origin of honeys. Science Round-up includes a summary by Brian Dancer (Cardiff University) of some of the work presented at the German Bee Research Institutes seminar held in Jena. He reports on research into Paenibacillus larvae, the causative agent of American foulbood. Apparently, these bacteria produce several antibiotics, including a new one called apidiothricin. These antibiotics are of interest because over years there has been a scientific debate about the possible role these antibiotics play in allowing P. larvae to establish itself in monoculture in AFB scales and ropes. An approach for improved honey bee cross-pollination of crops involves the use of hive-entrance fittings (pollen dispensers and hive-entrance pollen transfer devices)for enhancing pollen transfer between self- incompatible cultivars of fruit or nut trees, or seed crops. Fani Hatjina of the Faculty of Agricultural Technology, Greece, reviews these devices and compares their effectiveness. This is just a taste of what Bee World holds in store for you. If you don't already, subscribe now by joining IBRA and get Bee World free four times a year. Contact Maxine (please put Membership in the subject line of your e-mail) for details at: ibra@cardiff.ac.uk <<<< Dates for Your Diary >>>> ** Saturday 3 October 1998 -- IBRA Autumn Conference Morning session: 'Social smells and communication: pheromones in the hive' Afternoon session: 'Controlling pests in the colony' Will include the 1998 IBRA Annual General Meeting. ** 26-28 November 1998 -- UK National Honey Show Meet the IBRA staff at the IBRA stand. ** 13-18 September 1999 -- Apimondia '99 Meet the Director, Richard Jones and IBRA staff at the IBRA stand. ** 19-25 March 2000 - 7th IBRA Conference on Tropical Bees The first announcement is available now for this important meeting on bees and beekeeping in the tropics. Contact us at: E-mail: ibra@cardiff.ac.uk WWW: http://www.cardiff.ac.uk/ibra/ <<<< Please copy this newsletter to anyone you think would find it interesting and let us have their e-mail address for future issues >>>> %%%% Ends %%%% ================================================================= ====================================================================== ***Important**** **Please state in the subject line to whom your message is intended** ====================================================================== International Bee Research Association 18 North Road, Cardiff CF1 3DY, UK Tel: (+44) 1222 372409 Fax: (+44) 1222 665522 E.mail: ibra@cardiff.ac.uk =================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 10:52:55 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dan Jones Subject: Re: Pollination Books Sought MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following is slightly off topic, but has proven to be a useful tool. I use the Advanced Book Exchange at www.abebooks.com. It indexes the lists of something like 2500 used book dealers. There are similar services around the net. What you get is a listing for the dealer who is selling the book. You then contact the dealer directly. The service is free. It produced sources for both titles. It produced hits on both titles, 4 on AHP and 1 on IPCCP. Disclaimer: I am in no way affiliated with abebooks, blah, blah, blah, just a satisfied user, blah, blah, .. Dan Jones Mill Run, Pennsylvania Roger Flanders wrote: > Could anyone offer advice on where I might obtain copies of these two > books: (1) S.E.McGregor's book "Insect Pollination of Cultivated Crop > Plants," Agriculture Handbook No. 496 USDA, 1976, published by the > Government Printing Office, but now out of print; and (2) "American Honey > Plants" by F.C. Pellett? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 12:22:07 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Thyme Smith Subject: is it true... MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" i've been reading as much material on beekeeping as i can come across, sifting through the good and the bad and recently i've had an opportunity to speak with someone who used to be an avid beekeeper, but woefully gave up because of the mites. he found that his bees became an "annual" hive rather than a "perennial" hive (i.e. he was replacing them every year because they'd die from mite infection) and said it was just too expensive and depressing to see his hive die every year. is this the current fate of many of you hobbyist-beekeepers (and your hives)? it's so depressing to hear my friend talk about "the good old days" that he used to spend with his hives, and now he won't even consider getting started again. given he has so much experience, how could i hope to as a novice to embark on such a hopeless hobby? any words of encouragement would be appreciated! thyme ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 12:50:17 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: AES Report on Mites? Comments: To: "Bob, W7VZX" In-Reply-To: <355B9E02.4CB@atnet.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 14 May 1998, Bob, W7VZX wrote: > "VARROA AND TRACHAEL MITES are parasitic pests that threaten both > cultured and feral honeybee populations across the U.S. New USDA > research using formic acid in a gel formulation as a control for mites > in hived bees offers hope for managing the two pests with a single > treatment. Currently only fluvalinate, for varroa mites and menthol for > trachael mites are approved control measures by EPA. With the new > methode, the formic acid gel in a plastic bag is opened inside the hive > where it evaporate over time to eradicate parasitic mites, leaving > behind only a harmless residue." > > Any Information? > Hi Bob and All, At the present time we have apistan strips. Formic acid gel will be out soon. My opinion is , it is better than nothing. Thats where it stops.Any chemicals that disrupt tha natural chemistry of the bee hive will cause some problem with the normal function of the hive.The 200+ Pheromones are organic acids and Formic acid is the strongest of all organic acids.I have not been able to find any studies that have addressed this issue over the past two years.Good solid research needs to address this real problem.If anyone has any data to put this issue to rest, I would be very happy to read what tests have been done in this area. We need to control Varroa with as little negative affect on the bees as possible.Apistan is going out and we all knew that it would happen. You can't fight the mite with one chemical. The mite will mutate to a level of resistance over time.We need a very aggressive effort by the USDA to explore many different ways to control the mite Varroa.Genetics is the long term fix. It will take a lot of time to get to a level of the bees controling Varroa on there own.The importance of controlling Varroa is way beyound saving beekeepers.Man has brought in the problem and man has to fix it with the same tools that they used to go to the moon. There brains. This last winter I lost 100+ hives out of 180. We had a very wet winter and the conditions were in favor of Varroa. The stress that the bees had, added to the problem.Mite loads were 1% or less going in to Oct. Treatment started in august. One lesson learned was, treatment needs to be done inside the cluster. Thats a problem in cold rainy weather. The choice is , you loose some then or all of them later.No Varroa is the only answer for wintering bees.Weather conditions have a very large impact on the survival of a colony with Varroa. The bottem line is, don't rely on one chemical to solve our Varroa problem , no matter what it is.Don't be afraid to ask questions to the USDA , on what there plan is and how they are making progress.Many beekeepers are taking things into there own hands and the is an accident waiting to happen. Real research has to be done and that takes time and money. Keep a good eye on your bees and the only good mite is a dead one. Best Regards Roy ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 16:36:12 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Greg J Zujus Subject: Grease patties I have seen mention previously about the year round use of grease patties for the treatment of mites. Can anyone enlighten me on this procedure. I am specifically interested in how to make the patties and the methods of application. I am also interested in any application methods for FGMO. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 12:29:51 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Elizabeth Vogt Subject: Re: is it true... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thyme -- Looks like you are at the U of Oregon ... you have 2 great honey bee researchers there in the Entomology Dept. : Drs. Mike Burgett and Lynn Royce. Go talk with them. I'm sure they will be encouraging about the future of beekeeping!! Sincerely, Elizabeth ---------- > From: Thyme Smith > > Subject: is it true... > it's so depressing to > hear my friend talk about "the good old days" that he used to spend with > his hives, and now he won't even consider getting started again. given he > has so much experience, how could i hope to as a novice to embark on such a > hopeless hobby? > > any words of encouragement would be appreciated! > > thyme ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 13:54:59 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John A Skinner Subject: Re: Leafcutter/Honey Bee Competition Comments: To: Allen Dick In-Reply-To: <09210009516291@internode.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII My nickels worth; Leafcutters will concentrate on pollen but will also gather some nectar for fuel. Each female provisions their leaf-piece lined cells with pollen, lay an egg on it and closes the cell, then starts a new one. They don't store nectar to overwinter like honey bees. Leafcutters will probably start foraging earlier in the am. I'm not aware of competition per se, at least the bees don't "fight" over the forage. grins, John John A. Skinner 218 Ellington Hall Extension Apiculturist University of Tennessee jskinner@utk.edu Knoxville, TN 37901 (423)974-7138 On Thu, 14 May 1998, Allen Dick wrote: > I'm wondering what insight list members may have on the coexistence of > Alfalfa leafcutter bees and honey bees. > > We'll be placing hives on Canola fields where leafcutters are also being > placed and wonder how much interaction is likely to take place. Are > leafcutters heavy consumers of pollen or nectar? Are there diseases in > common? > > Allen > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 21:02:32 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: AHworkerB Subject: Re: is it true... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit It is very possible to be a successful hobbyist beekeeper these days. What is important is to keep current on mites and their treatments. A beekeeper, to be successful, should belong to a local and a state beekeeping organization and should be subscribing to one or all of the beekeeping journals. If a beekeeper is not willing to do this, then his bees will be lost. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 21:16:47 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK Subject: Re: Grease patties Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Greg: Grease patties are made by mixing 2 pounds of granulated sugar with 1 pound of Crisco, and make that mixture into patties like a hamburger. Place each pattie on a piece of regular wax paper; and put one of these patties on top of the frames in the BROOD CHAMBER (not in the supers). Don't put any Terramycin in the mixture! Keep a pattie in the hive brood chamber all 12 months of the year. While many people have researched this program, perhaps the principle worker was DR. Diana Sammanturo at Ohio State. Note: This procedure works on TRACHEAL mites ONLY, not on Varroa Mites. It MUST be used continuously, that just when you get around to it; because it does NOT KILL any mites, but only CONTROLS them. Sort of like a diabetic can control diabetes by insulin shots; but insulin shots do NOT kill or cure diabetes. George ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 18:20:23 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: is it true... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thyme, Dewey Caron spoke to the Maine State beekeepers recently about training people in Central America to manage so called killer bees. He said that he could train someone who never kept bees to easily handle killer bees but not so with a bekeeper use to the old ways. I have seen that here in Maine with the management of bees with varroa and tracheal mites. I started beekeeping when both were in the US and lost some hives from T-mite. I learned to cope and have not lost a hive to them or varroa in the last three years. I did not have to re-learn anything. I just did as the books said and followed the latest guidance from Gleanings and the ABJ. I also did a lot of experimenting on my own. To put it all into perspective. If you have a cat or dog, do you treat them for ticks and fleas? That is all that you are doing with your bees but on a less intensive schedule. No one thinks much of taking care of their pets-daily-, but for some reason, think it a chore to treat their bees a couple of times a year. You will enjoy beekeeping. You will meet some of the finest people in the world. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME Thyme Smith wrote: > given he > has so much experience, how could i hope to as a novice to embark on such a > hopeless hobby? > any words of encouragement would be appreciated! > > thyme ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 04:26:11 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Subject: List of Bee Lists MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I've started a list of bee lists at http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Bee/Lists.htm The plan is to include significant open lists in all/any languages. I realise there are many more. I'd appreciate it if anyone knowing of other lists would write me as well as those with more information about the lists I've already posted. TIA Allen ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 08:46:56 -0500 Reply-To: sauer@mwci.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Christopher Sauer Organization: Divine Word College Subject: Making splits MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------E02312C6F90F29C648D7753B" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------E02312C6F90F29C648D7753B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've split a couple of my hives and am interested in more information than I can find in the bee books about the process of splitting. I took three frames of brood with covering bees and a couple of frames of honey and pollen from a strong hive and put them in a new box last night. This morning I put the queen (in cage) into the box. I'd appreciate any criticism/advice about doing the split in this way. My question is: Do nurse bees get promoted to foragers when there are no foragers available in the new split? Which bees are responsible for going to the feeder (division feeder) and the stored honey? Thanks for the input! Chris Sauer, NE Iowa 30 hives --------------E02312C6F90F29C648D7753B Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Christopher Sauer Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Christopher Sauer n: Sauer;Christopher org: Divine Word College email;internet: sauer@mwci.net title: Director, ESL Institute note: tel. (319) 876-3353 ext. 209 x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard --------------E02312C6F90F29C648D7753B-- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 11:30:05 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mark Gosswiller Subject: Old Honey Frames MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I have several frames of honey left over from last year and would like to feed them to my bees this year. I have two hives in my back yard. This honey is crystallized on the frames. 1. Can I just set them a few yards away from the hives and have the bees come and rob them? 2. Will the bees turn this crystallized honey into good honey that can be extracted? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 16:07:27 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: williams Subject: bee sting reaction MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks to all who sent me information on bee sting reaction. I had been trying to convince myself that it was no problem and all I needed to do was get a few more stings a year. I now know that I have a serious problem and must be very careful around bees. Thanks to you all, you probably saved me a lot pain and suffering. I plan to get an epi-pen kit and be more careful when I'm around bees. (:- Have a nice day. John Williams :-) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 09:05:05 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Honey Market & Contest Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The OLd Drone just busted his buns getting the latest bee news and market reports up for you and has started a new bee keepers CONTEST. To win a nice bee keepers gift all you have to do is find his picture on the site and identify the well know actor with him. E-Mail this information with the "number" of visitors from the top of page "one" with your postal address and your gifts on the way... http://beenet.com Take a break and enjoy this site, it will get better and you need to return again and again to keep up. ttul, the OLd Drone (c)Permission is given to copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 21:59:04 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: DNBrown Subject: Not A Laying Worker Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I mailed in a week or so ago with questions about laying workers- thanks for all the advice, on and off-list. We must have a laying queen, albeit a very shy one because we have never seen her! After a few weeks of seeing no queen we got worried, and when suddenly we saw lots of drone cells among a brood pattern sprinkled with honey cells, we got more worried. But after several checks we still have a normal brood progression of single egg standing up, then laying down, then little larvae, etc. and an increasing population. The drone cells have not increased much. So I think we are OK, though this package hive is a little slow, no doubt due to the week of rainy cold weather here in the Northeast USA. It hit after only a few days of apple blossoms and lasted until the blossoms were gone. My other hive is doing better, it went through the winter, and we can see the queen readily. Thanks again for your information. DNBrown ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 08:45:45 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John M Thorp Subject: Re: Old Honey Frames Put them in the hive or every bee in the neighbor hood will be visiting your blessing. It will be reworked and extract able. John in Homestead- -Jesus Christ is the only answer _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 14:28:12 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pollinator Subject: Re: Not A Laying Worker Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/17/98 9:02:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time, dnbrown@MA.ULTRANET.COM writes: << We must have a laying queen, albeit a very shy one because we have never seen her! After a few weeks of seeing no queen we got worried, and when suddenly we saw lots of drone cells among a brood pattern sprinkled with honey cells, we got more worried. But after several checks we still have a normal brood progression of single egg standing up, then laying down, then little larvae, etc. and an increasing population. The drone cells have not increased much. >> It sounds as if your got a poorly mated queen. She may have had a few good eggs in her, because it sounds as if you now have a newly mated queen laying. The hive raised their own. Look to see if there are the remnants of an emergency cell or two. The original queen was probably the source of the drone eggs. She was likely unable to produce many workers because she did not mate with enough drones. The bees, recognizing her weakness, immediatedly superceded her and got a good one this time. Look at your queen. New queens are very light colored and quite fuzzy. After a couple weeks their exoskeleton darkens. The original was likely killed, or just dried up and died. Despite the setback, you are off and running now. Good luck. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 14:20:23 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pollinator Subject: Re: Old Honey Frames Comments: cc: Mark_Gosswiller@BC.COM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/17/98 10:17:05 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Mark_Gosswiller@BC.COM writes: << I have several frames of honey left over from last year and would like to feed them to my bees this year. I have two hives in my back yard. This honey is crystallized on the frames. 1. Can I just set them a few yards away from the hives and have the bees come and rob them? 2. Will the bees turn this crystallized honey into good honey that can be extracted? >> 1. That's extremely risky. You are apt to get robbing started, if there is no nectar flow on. There will be hoards of bees cleaning up the honey, maybe even from other hives in the area. While they are robbing they have an excellent chance of spreading disease and parasites to one another. After they finish off the honey you put out, they will go looking for more, and they may jump on a weak hive and rob it out. In the meantime they will get quite defensive with each other, and you, your kids, your dog, and your neighbors may wind up getting stung. If they are the same size as the frames in your brood box, just put them into it, alongside the cluster. If they are a different size, put the frames in a box, fill it out with empty comb or foundation, and set it on an excluder, over the brood box. 2. Generally, the bees will rework the honey, given enough time, and you may be able to extract it. Or they may eat it up, then replace it with new honey. Sometimes, if they get a heavy flow, they will throw out the crystals. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 01:23:46 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=F8rn_Johanesson?= Subject: Canadian Beekeeper (Vancouver) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was filtered out so here again. EDBi have asked me to search for contact to a Canadian Beekeeper. Anybody out there ?? regards Jorn Johanesson Beekeeper since 1970 EDBi = Beekeeping software since 1986 homepages http://wn.com.au/apimo http://home4.inet.tele.dk/apimo e-mail apimo@post4.tele.dk ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 23:49:31 +1200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Organization: Bay of Plenty Polytechnic Subject: Re: Canadian Beekeeper (Vancouver) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > EDBi have asked me to search for contact to a Canadian Beekeeper. Anybody > out there ?? You can see a list of many various beekeepers from around the world at: http://www.beekeeping.co.nz/whoswho.htm (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- home nickw@beekeeping.co.nz (/ work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz NZ Beekeeping http://www.beekeeping.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 19:39:23 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." Subject: US and World Production of Honey Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dos anyone have a figure and reference for the world and US production of honey? Tons/year?? Thanks for any input. Paul Cronshaw, D.C. Hobbyist Beekeeper Santa Barbara, CA USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 03:34:22 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Subject: How to Read sci.agriculture.beekeeping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT sci.agriculture.beekeeping is another way to discuss beekeeping on the 'net. My ISP does not have reliable USENET service and I have found DejaNews imperfect as a method of access. However, in reworking my site, I came across an old pointer to Adam's site and was pleased to discover the current month's sci.agriculture.beekeeping log is always at: http://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/academic/agriculture/entomology/beekeeping/sci. agriculture.beekeeping/current Ooooeee, that's a lonnggg URL, so if you just click here it will probably not work due to the wordwrap. For more options and easier access, use http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Bee/sci.htm as an entrance point to the logs, DejaNews, etc. Allen -- Buy, sell, trade, get a job, hire help, announce a meeting, advertise a business or publication... For free *beekeeping related* classified ads, visit http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/BeeAds/ often. These ads work fast! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 11:28:19 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: IBRA Subject: IBRA's newsletter list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I have just sent out the latest issue of the IBRA e-mailed newsletter and have received quite a few 'bouncers' where the address I have is not correct. If you asked to join my list, but have not received any mail recently, let me know at: ibra@cardiff.ac.uk (not the BEE-L list address) Thanks for your interest Pam =================================================== Dr Pamela Munn, Deputy Director and Editor International Bee Research Association 18 North Road, Cardiff CF1 3DY, UK Tel: (+44) 1222 372409 Fax: (+44) 1222 665522 Email: munnpa@cf.ac.uk =================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 07:54:16 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Daniel D. Dempsey" Subject: Re: bee sting reaction In-Reply-To: <199805162104.QAA08654@lesche.missouri.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 04:07 PM 5/16/98 -0500, you wrote: I plan to get an epi-pen kit and be more careful >when I'm around bees. John: When you get the pen call this # to see if the pen lot # was on the recall list. 1-800-240-5788 Luck Dan Daniel D. Dempsey P. O. Box 5 Red Bluff,CA 96080-0005 ddempsey@tco.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 08:43:28 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BCULTURE Subject: McGregor's Handbook On Pollination Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hello, In responce to a question that came up on this list recently on how to obtain the above mentioned book, I must comment on the coincidence. The A.I. Root Co., in cooperation with the USDA Bee Lab in Tucson, AZ, has just last week placed McGregor's Handbook of Pollination on our web page. Included are all the chapters, but some of the introduction and summary has been left out, at least for now. Many of the photos were not included, but most of the line drawings are. The structure has been modified somewhat to make it easier to find certain crops, but the text has been left unchanged. You can click on any particular crop and go directly to it. It has taken about a year to produce this work, and the USDA people, who did much of the initial work, are to be congratulated. Bee Culture magazine did the organization and layout of the page But this is a book in transition. We are rewriting most of the book, and when a crop chapter has been rewritten, it will be added to the book, and noted right on the page, so readers will know immediatiely that something new has been added. It will pay to visit often. It is, essentially, the first virtural beekeeping book. I invite you to visit the page, www.airoot.com and check out the Bible of Pollination, available now electronically. Enjoy. Kim Flottum, Editor, Bee Culture Magazine ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 09:10:12 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Thyme Smith Subject: a revision to my earlier post... MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" i was flamed for my earlier post, which was written with the utmost sincerity and concern. so i would like to "open eyes and ears to people who have entered the 20th century and moving towards the 21st century" and further explain myself. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 10:34:26 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mason Harris Organization: SMCOE Subject: Foulbrood and saving bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Bee Wizards all! I know the general consensus regarding what needs to be done to equipment that comes in contact with foulbrood. I don't want to start that thread. My question is, if a hive does have foulbrood and is full of bees, can the bees be saved? If you transfer the bees to new equipment, will they re-infect the new frames and boxes?? I seems lilkey that they will as the living bees must have the spores on them too. I suppose you could torch the bees with 500K BTU of heat to kill the spores but I am afarid this may singe the wings a tad ;-}.................What do you all think?? -- Mason Harris, MA (\ SMCOE Educational Audiologist -{ ||| 8- smharris@ed.co.sanmateo.ca.us (/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 13:22:35 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: JRmintin Subject: Re: Honey Market & Contest Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit off the subject is it common to get a shipment of bees all dead on arriveal and who pays for the losses? i was told it was the heat (does this seem right and is the post office to blame?? thanks Jerry ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 13:48:09 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Treating AFB while saving the Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Mason Harris asks about treating AFB without having the treatment kill the patient. In days before burning was the only "sanctioned" treatment, AFB was sometimes addressed by shaking all the bees from infected equipment into new uninfected equipment (saving the bees) and then burning the infected equipment, BROOD AND HONEY INCLUDED. Boxes can be scorched and reused. Remember, AFB is a brood disease. Brood is prerequisite for AFB to thrive. Breaking the brood cycle by the shaking exercise mentioned above provides a period for the beekeeper to treat with TM to stop the AFB cycle before brood is present to keep the AFB cycle going. Remember also that AFB is highly contagious and easily transferable. The possibility of transferring AFB from infected equipment to new or uninfected equipment ALWAYS exists. However, beekeepers who kept bees when my grandfather kept bees - before government agencies insisted that everything be burned, were known to transfer infected bees into clean equipment without transfering the disease. Even in the days before oxytet. However, ... usual disclaimer about AFB (only sanctioned treatment in most states is burn, cost of one hive is significantly less than an infected apiary, yada yada yada). Please consider this a history lesson, not a recommendation, especially in the state of Texas! Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 13:50:57 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Midnitebee Subject: Re: shipment of bees all dead MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Holly-B Apiary P.O.Box 26 Wells,Maine 04090-0026 http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee -----Original Message----- From: JRmintin To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Date: Monday, May 18, 1998 1:34 PM Subject: Re: Honey Market & Contest >off the subject is it common to get a shipment of bees all dead on arriveal >and who pays for the losses? the shipper pays for the bees and you will have to pay for the additional shipping costs. >and is the post office to blame?? maybe.. > i was told it was the heat (does this seem right if the bees are not provided with proper "ventilation" or the sugar can was "jarred" to many times,the bees could have "drowned"..were they in a massive "clump"?..were they saturated with sugar?. Unfortunately,at this point it doesn't matter..you need to call the bee supplier and order more bees. Herb thanks Jerry > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 14:51:00 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Diane Boller Subject: Re: Grease patties MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Do you leave the waxed paper in with the pattie? GImasterBK wrote: > Greg: Grease patties are made by mixing 2 pounds of granulated sugar with 1 > pound of Crisco, ****** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 15:27:37 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK Subject: Re: Grease patties Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Dianne: Leave the wax paper on top of the frames to hold the pattie in case it dries out and crumbles. The bees will tear up the wax paper and carry it out the front door; because bees are excellent "house-keepers". Depending on the bee population, the amount of nectar flow, and time of year; each pattie might only last 2-3 weeks in the late spring and summer, but 2-3 months in cold winter weather. I don't know your location; but bees will eat grease patties almost 12 months of the year in Miami or Tucson, but eat very little up near the Canadian border. However, to be effective they have to be present ALL 12 MONTHS! George ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 14:38:40 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David W Oakes Subject: Cold Pressed Honey MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I had a inquiry of "cold pressed honey" the other day wanting to know if I had any -I had not heard of the term before. Can anyone tell me their thoughts? Thanks in advance Dave in Indiana ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 22:50:19 +0200 Reply-To: drs@kulmbach.baynet.de Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Dr. Reimund Schuberth" Subject: Re: Foulbrood and saving bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Mason, > My question is, if a hive does have foulbrood and is full > of bees, can the bees be saved? If you transfer the bees to new > equipment, will they re-infect the new frames and boxes?? I seems > lilkey that they will as the living bees must have the spores on them > too. As you may know, antibiotics aren't used in some countries to fight AFB. Here in Germany the hives are mostly killed together with the bees in it if AFB is detected. But if you don't mind the work you can save the bees. The best way to do so is transfering them into a new and absolutely clean hive filled only with clean foundations (no old combs!). You can clean the hives by washing them with a sodiumhydroxide solution and/or burning them out with a gas-burner. In the new hive you must feed the bees with sirup (water/sugar = 1/1). They will then build new combs. Sincerely Reimund ________________________________ Beekeeper in Germany (Bavaria) Queen Rearing of Carniolan Bees Insemination Station ________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 15:07:39 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Midnitebee Subject: Re: Grease patties MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Holly-B Apiary P.O.Box 26 Wells,Maine 04090-0026 http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee -----Original Message----- From: Diane Boller To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Date: Monday, May 18, 1998 3:02 PM Subject: Re: Grease patties >Do you leave the waxed paper in with the pattie? yes..grease patty on top of wax paper..place these two items on top of frames. > >GImasterBK wrote: > >> Greg: Grease patties are made by mixing 2 pounds of granulated sugar with 1 >> pound of Crisco, ****** > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 16:25:39 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Treating AFB while saving the Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aaron, I think you have it implied in the post, that it should be foundation and not drawn comb so you break both the brood cycle and have nowhere for any honey to go that the bees may bring from the old hive, Bill Truesdell Bath, Me Aaron Morris wrote: > Mason Harris asks about treating AFB without having the treatment kill > the patient. > > In days before burning was the only "sanctioned" treatment, AFB was > sometimes addressed by shaking all the bees from infected equipment into > new uninfected equipment (saving the bees) and then burning the infected > equipment, BROOD AND HONEY INCLUDED. Boxes can be scorched and reused. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 19:00:45 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Musashi Subject: Re: Cold Pressed Honey Dave, My understanding of "cold pressed honey" is honey that has been pressed from the comb and not subjected to any heating. It is said that delicate flavors and aromas, enzymes and other delicate components of raw honey are less likely to be lost than they would be if the honey were extracted by a centrifugal extractor and subjected to heating either for purposes of getting it to flow more easily or for "pasteurization." Cold pressed honey is often sold at natural food stores at a premium price. Layne Westover College Station, Texas ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 20:28:23 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: Foulbrood and saving bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >You can clean the hives by washing them >with a sodiumhydroxide solution Has anyone tried using Hydrogen Peroxide to wash combs with Foulbrood? After my first winter in beekeeping, all three of my hives died of an unknown disease. They had a white-ish mould growing on some of them, particularly where there was pollen. A friend of mine suggested washing them with a diluted Hydrogen Peroxide solution, and I did, and put new bees in them and they seemed to be fine. Since peroxide is used as an antiseptic on cuts, etc, I would assume it kills bacteria, which is what Foulbrood is. No? And if it does work, it should be safer than sodium hydroxide, which I think is the same as bleach or similar. Just a thought. Comments? Ian Watson realtor@niagara.com real estate agent gardener baritone beekeeper---> 13 colonies ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 19:43:54 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Barry Richards Subject: Re: Treating AFB while saving the Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have heard it suggested that you shake the bees out away from the hive and allow them to fly back to the original hive position where a new box is placed. This prevents AFB spores from being shaken into the new box. I imagine you should capture the queen to avoid loss. -----Original Message----- From: Bill Truesdell >I think you have it implied in the post, that it should be foundation and not >drawn comb so you break both the brood cycle and have nowhere for any honey to >go that the bees may bring from the old hive, >Bill Truesdell >Bath, Me ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 21:39:29 -0400 Reply-To: vcoppola@froggernet.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Re: Foulbrood and saving bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mason Harris wrote: > Hello Bee Wizards all! > I know the general consensus regarding what needs to be done to > equipment that comes in contact with foulbrood. I don't want to start > that thread. My question is, if a hive does have foulbrood and is full of bees, can the bees be saved? Although not recommended in most states, it is possible to save the bees by shaking them onto foundation. Not so much to break the brood cycle, that could be accomplished by removing the queen for a while, but to prevent any contaminated honey from being used to feed the first brood in the new hive. If there is only foundation in the new hive, any honey carried in the bees honey stomach will be utilized in wax production. This was a common practice years ago and is probably fairly safe but rather time consuming. I wish I could remember where I saw a study of this practice, if I remember AFB reoccurred at around a 2% rate. Why isn't this practice approved by most regulatory agencies? Having witnessed several hundred burn orders here in NY, I can tell you that many beekeepers cannot follow instructions and it is not uncommon to see neighborhood bees robbing at the scene. So, if you try it, be very careful not to shake any honey on the new hive or on the ground, make sure all the wax and honey gos into the burn hole top filled with 18" soil. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 15:35:19 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK Subject: Re: shipment of bees all dead Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hey Herb: Tell Jerry not to count on the post office to care for bees. He should go to the post office, tell them to telephone him immediately upon receipt and HE should GO TO THE P.O. and pick them up. He can also explain to the P.O. people the value of bees to human ecology, and how they can EASILY protect them from transit death. Get the Post Office people on the BEEKEEPERS side by taking them some honey to use at their lunch table. Public Relations George ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 20:04:40 -0700 Reply-To: jcbach@yvn.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: James C Bach Subject: Foulbrood and saving bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mason Harris asks about whether the bees can be saved from a hive containing Foulbrood. I presume Mason that you are talking about American Foulbrood. The answer is yes. Carefully shake the bees from a comb by using a rapid up and down movement holding the ends of the frame top bar between your bent first finger and the base of your thumb. The frame must be held vertical to reduce the chance of shaking nectar into your new hive. Nectar may contain spores. I was told by Dr. Rothenbueler that 99.5 percent of the AFB spores are found in the residue of AFB in combs. One book I read said that it takes the presence of 50,000 spores in a hive to cause a brood nest to show symptoms of AFB. It would follow that if you remove any comb containing AFB residues, scrape all burr comb from the frames and hive body, and also scrape propolis from the hive as you would when thoroughly cleaning equipment for reuse, you are unlikely to experience AFB again unless you have a case of reinfection. To be even safer, I feed Terramycin and sugar syrup to the colony from which the disease reservoir has been removed. I gorge the bees, on a day with an ambient temperature at 60 F. or above, by pouring the syrup over the bees with the aim of getting all the bees wet with syrup. Don't drown the bees just get them wet. I repeat the process a second time as soon as the bees clean up the syrup. James C. Bach Yakima WA jbach@agr.wa.gov jcbach@yvn.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 05:17:50 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Alan Riach Subject: Coldpress filtering of honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Filtering of "thick" honeys such as OIL-SEED RAPE can be a time consuming job.It is of course possible to speed things up by heating but there is no doubt that this degrades the quality of the honey This only leaves high pressure honey pumps or high speed centrifuge filters-both very expensive to buy in professional form. Has any one tried making these units or is it beyond the normal beekeepers ingenuity. Has any one got details of pressures,speeds which would be required to get fast filtration? Happy honey hunting. Alan Riach West Lothian,Scotland ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 07:04:48 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Foulbrood and saving bees In-Reply-To: <35600EAD.3E26@ed.co.sanmateo.ca.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > My question is, if a hive does have foulbrood and is full of bees, can > the bees be saved? If you transfer the bees to new equipment, will they > re-infect the new frames and boxes?? I seems lilkey that they will as > the living bees must have the spores on them too. This subject has been beaten to death several times and still comes back. Destroying good equipment and bees in most of North America is an outdated, stupid practice that is wasteful and doomed to failure. There is a great deal of good material in the archives. I won't repeat it here. If you got foulbrood in the first place, where did it come from? It does not generate spontaneously. Chances are that even if you buy new bees and all new equipment that you will very well break down again shortly in most North American sites if you do not medicate properly. The source is most likely your neighbourhood. Unless you can eliminate all potential sources of infection *outside* the hive, destroying the hive and bees will be *futile*. Besides, AFB is very simple to treat. As another writer said, just remove the visible signs of the disease, scrape the hive a bit, if it makes you feel better, and treat with oxytet as per directions (actually use a bit more -- up to double the dose recommended). You will have to treat regularly in the future whether you keep this hive or get another. AFB is around. Chances are that you got into this predicament because your medication technique is defective or your treatment schedule is sloppy. This is where to direct your attention, not towards wasting good equipment and distressing your bees. Regardless of what you do, in the future make sure that oxytetracycline is applied frequently and regularly and in the correct amount during the active season and that the bees are actually consuming it. Allen -- Buy, sell, trade, get a job, hire help, announce a meeting, advertise a business or publication... For free *beekeeping related* classified ads, visit http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/BeeAds/ often. These ads work fast! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 09:27:06 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rod Billett Subject: Dancing Bees! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi All, My bee's are exhibiting a behavior that I wish to better understand 'Why - What are they doing'. A percentage (20 - 25%) of the bees gathering on the landing and bottom board of my hive are 'Dancing'. They are arching their bodies (Head and tail down) and they walk backwards about 1/2 - 1 inch. While moving backwards, They are rapidly 'brushing' the surface with their front legs. The books state that this 'washboarding' behavior is done when they attempt to apply propolis to a large surface area. In an effort to close holes/cavities and protect against ants and other crawling insects. My question is Why are they attempting to propolize the bottom board and landing board. They are well painted, and quite smooth with no holes, scratches, or cuts. Also, I have not seen many ants crawling around the landing or bottom board. Occasionally, the bee exhibits another behavior that I have not been able to identify from my books. Sometimes, as they are walking backwards, they will bump into another bee. Often, when this happens, they will extend their abdomen (Straight back) and lift it up and down 2 - 4 times. I have seen this behavior in bees that are not washboarding as well. Any insight would be welcomed. Rod Billett Columbia, SC USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 09:50:33 -0400 Reply-To: beekeepr@bellsouth.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Frank Humphrey Subject: Re: Coldpress filtering of honey In-Reply-To: <355BC1EE.542@which.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > Filtering of "thick" honeys such as OIL-SEED RAPE can be a time > consuming job.It is of course possible to speed things up by heating but > there is no doubt that this degrades the quality of the honey > > This only leaves high pressure honey pumps or high speed centrifuge > filters-both > > Alan Riach > West Lothian,Scotland > Another method of processing without filtering is to settle the honey. I do not heat my honey. I leave it in a room at 85 to 90 degrees F. When extracting I keep the extractor at low speed until the combs are almost empty then speed it up to finish up. From the extractor it goes through a course strainer and then is poured slowly into a holding tank. When full the top is placed on the tank and sealed with stretch wrap to keep out moisture. It is then left to settle between 2 weeks to a month depending on thickness. I have known beekeepers the store it this way for 3 months for clear show honey. Using this method, wax particles and other impurities will float to the top. When the honey has had time to settle, I bottle from the bottom of the container and the very last which contains trash is filtered through a stocking and is sold as filtered or used for cooking. I have seen this method used for the thickest of honeys. It just takes a little longer to settle. Frank Humphrey beekeepr@bellsouth.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 10:39:51 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Midnitebee Subject: Re: shipment of bees all dead MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Hey Herb: Tell Jerry not to count on the post office to care for bees. I work for the Postal Service and I can tell you that there are several factors involving shipment of dead bees. 1)It starts with the packer 2)packer sends his shipment to a Postal Distribution Center(question..are the bees alive?) 3)Usually the distribution center will ship by railroad(question..are the bees alive during transit?) 4)When the bees arrive at another distribution center,the bees are routed by another railroad/truck system(question..are the bees still alive?) 5)Ok..now the alive/dead bees are at your local Post Office.. 6)You get a call from the LOCAL Post office..dead bees! 7)First and foremost..your LOCAL Post office did not have anything to do with your dead bees;dead bees came to you by shipper?, Postal truck/railroad ?and handed to you by the Postal Clerk. The Postal service is the only carrier that will ship bees/ducks/chickens/pheasents/etc..dead or alive. The Postal Service guarantees delivery of the product..dead or alive. I can only speak for the Portland,Maine USPS..I personally have traced my shipment from Georgia to Portland,Me., My "dead" bees were already dead when they arrive at the Boston Postal Distribution Center.. what happend? 1)either the holes on the can of syrup were too large and the bees were overwhelmed with syrup and drowned 2)the bees cages were tipped (allowing syrup to constantly spill on the bees)or covered with other materials..boxes/bags,etc. 3)poor ventilation/too cold or hot in transit 4)workers (postal/or non-postal )who are afraid of bees and "tossed" the packages on top/botoom of very large cargo containers. These are some of the examples of dead bee arrival..who is to blame?..too complex to give a definitive answer. Since I work for the Portalnd,Me. Postal Service, I have spoken to the NorthEast Postal District on the proper care of bee transportaion. I personally check the loading docks for bee arrivals and take note of dead packages..we take the live packages to a staging area..not too cool/hot..and place them in screened "containers". We only load the alive/dead bees...LAST!..this way the bees(alive) will not bee crushed or lacking in ventilation. Majority of bee shipments are late at night..around 8 am you will receive your anticipated call..hope all is well. One final note:has anyone ever received a "crushed' package of bees?..were the screens opend/crushed/...was the wooden box "cracked"?..I have worked at the Boston/Portland Distribution Center... not in my 15 years of Postal service have I seen this.. I can't stop the arrival of dead bees,so, in conclusion,I raise my own bees and order queens from the breeder. Now,that's another story to be told..shipment of queen bees! Herb He >should go to the post office, tell them to telephone him immediately upon >receipt and HE should GO TO THE P.O. and pick them up. He can also explain to >the P.O. people the value of bees to human ecology, and how they can EASILY >protect them from transit death. Get the Post Office people on the BEEKEEPERS >side by taking them some honey to use at their lunch table. Public >Relations George > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 09:59:26 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: D.O.A. Bees and the Shipper In-Reply-To: <870d4f41.35606e5c@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:22 PM 5/18/98 -0400, you wrote: >off the subject is it common to get a shipment of bees all dead on arriveal >and who pays for the losses? i was told it was the heat (does this seem right >and is the post office to blame?? thanks Jerry It is not common to have package bees or queens arrive DOA. The shipper must guarantee "live delivery" or he is just ripping the public off. The way he does that is to insure them with the shipping agent, or if they won't insure them he then assumes the risk and becomes self insured. Now if you picked them up yourself at the beekeepers barn we insure them to the edge of the black top because they were alive on delivery and you assumed the "risk of transportation". Contact your shipper, or the shipping agent at once so arrangements can be made to replace your bees. Some horror stories: I had a customer in Maine who wanted a load of package bees. I went to the SF Airport and searched for a shipper who would take package bees. I found a airline that never handled bees but really wanted to do it. As none of the airlines had a direct flight so the bees would be transferred at the airlines hub in Atlanta. Sounded good to me and they were insured. It took three shipments before any bees were delivered. So the bees got there a little late but still early enough to satisfy the buyer and some beekeeper in Atlanta got several hundred packages and I got three times the business. A old time friend of mine you was a Canadian beekeeper and also a California package bee shippers told me of his first experience shipping bees by air to Canada. A friend of his had a up and coming Air Fright Company so they got together and made great plans to ship a full load to Can dada. Everything went according to plan except after a few hours out when he went in the back to check the bees which had been very quite and stepped into a flood of sugar syrup leaking from the cans because of the cabin pressure system which was forcing all the sugar out. What a mess, but the bees made the trip with no loss, but the sugar found its way into everything and actually after the plane was on the ground could be seen leaking from the plane. It was necessary to do a "major" clean up job on the plane and it was laid up for several days waiting inspections. A lesson was learned and walk in feed or dry feed was then used without problem. Of course since then Canada has closed their borders to US Bees to protect US bees from exposure to bee diseases not known in the US or something like that. They now have just about every bee disease, pest, and predator know to man and the boarder remains closed. I can just guess that is because they don't want to receive any cheep bees from the US and its becoming a mute point as old time package beemen are no longer that interested in shipping packages to Canada anyway. Maybe hives, as then we could take advantage of our NAFTA partner and our good neighbors great bee pasture and wonderful pollination. I am sure that US beekeepers would be happy to supply a million or more hives each year to help out northern bee friends. ttul, the OLd Drone http://beenet.com BEENEWS and more. (c)Permission is given to copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 10:08:21 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: shipment of bees all dead In-Reply-To: <93913ebc.35608d78@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 03:35 PM 5/18/98 -0400, you wrote: Public Relations, sounds more like a bribe to me. I wonder why it is not just as responsible to insist that they do their job that we all pay them well for and that includes the guaranteed live delivery of bees? Not an attack but at one time I also gave at the office,,,, the Governors Office, the State House, and even the Presidents Office and his men. Today they put you in front of a Grand Jury for doing that and in this state, California, you do not give Honey to any government employee unless you want a lot of trouble. I am sure its the same in the PO, but thats not saying its not a good idea, just one with some risk to the giver. ttul, Andy- >Get the Post Office people on the BEEKEEPERS >side by taking them some honey to use at their lunch table. Public >Relations ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 13:24:40 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Conrad Sigona Subject: Re: Foulbrood and saving bees In-Reply-To: <01bd82bd$086c7f80$f33a05d1@k6200.niagara.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > .................................................... Since > peroxide is used as an antiseptic on cuts, etc, I would assume > it kills bacteria, which is what Foulbrood is. No? Killing bacteria is easy. What you also have to kill are the spores, and I'm sure hydrogen peroxide won't do that. > .................................................... And if it does > work, it should be safer than sodium hydroxide, which I think is > the same as bleach or similar. Sodium hydroxide is lye. Conrad Sigona conrad@ntcnet.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 21:50:32 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: AFB and glutaraldehyde Hi All I was just thinking about this whole AFB and beehives with spores in the wood story. This may be a really stupid idea, but how would some agent like formaldehyde or glutaraldehyde (apart from the fact that they are poisonous and carcinogenic they are highly volatile) which would intercolate (basically gum up the workings) of most organisms in the wood?? Just a thought. I know it wipes out B.cereus and subtilus, don't know about the ones that cause fould brood though. Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis Eastern Cape Prov. South Africa Time = Honey ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 13:17:56 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: Coldpress filtering of honey In-Reply-To: <355BC1EE.542@which.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 05:17 AM 5/15/98 +0100, you wrote: Hi Alan >consuming job.It is of course possible to speed things up by heating but >there is no doubt that this degrades the quality of the honey If heating honey degrades it then something must be wrong with the process being used. One part of the honey heating process is called the "honey cooling process" and this is done so the honey is only flash heated for a short time to speed filtration with our without filter aids depending on what the honey is going to be used for. Most packers must heat the honey to remove the stuff beekeepers get into it when its extracted. (Including pollen and honey crystals and dust.) This requires heat, and the honey is not degraded but its value is increased. Its an added value food process and its why they do. Of course they don't know what they are doing, but I suspect that few who read this list have ever set up a honey processing line that included all the requirements to meet the ever changing market for honey today which is more then just changing the label design. >This only leaves high pressure honey pumps or high speed centrifuge >filters-both very expensive to buy in professional form. Has any one >tried making these units or is it beyond the normal beekeepers > Has any one got details of pressures,speeds which would be >required to get fast filtration? I ain't no engineer but if you find any system that can do the above on a small or large scale without heat let us all know. I would suggest for a small scale honey producer system that gravity can be used to clean the honey but depending on the uncapping process the results will not be consistent and the quality of the product will suffer and some honey will be lost in the process if honestly done. ttul, Andy- (c)Permission is given to copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 16:22:53 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter Subject: Re: shipment of bees all dead Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/19/98 10:52:15 AM Eastern Daylight Time, midnitebee@CYBERTOURS.COM writes: > One final note:has anyone ever received a "crushed' package of bees?..were > the screens opend/crushed/...was the wooden box "cracked"?..I have worked at I recieved queens from Texas where the queen cages were little splinters of wood in a green onion sack with one very dead queen and one very beat up one. It appeared that they were run over by a platform truck or fork truck. Weavers replaced them of course.\ However the postal guys made no mention of the damage- just heres your bees. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 21:48:34 +0200 Reply-To: drs@kulmbach.baynet.de Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Dr. Reimund Schuberth" Subject: Re: Foulbrood and saving bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Ian, surely it is also possible to use Hydrogenperioxide for desinfection. What concentration did you use? > Has anyone tried using Hydrogen Peroxide to wash > combs with Foulbrood? After my first winter in beekeeping, > all three of my hives died of an unknown disease. ..... > A friend of mine suggested washing them with a diluted Hydrogen > Peroxide solution, and I did, and put new bees in them and they seemed > to be fine. Since > peroxide is used as an antiseptic on cuts, etc, I would assume > it kills bacteria, which is what Foulbrood is. No? You are right! > And if it does work, it should be safer than sodium hydroxide, which I > think is > the same as bleach or similar. I doubt that it's safer than sodium hydroxide. Both should be quite similar in efficency if one uses the right concentration. NaOH isn't something like bleach but an alkaline solution. Sincerely Reimund ___________________________ Beekeeper in Germany (Bavaria) Queen Rearing of Carniolan Bees Insemination Station ___________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 13:41:28 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: Foulbrood and saving bees In-Reply-To: <35600EAD.3E26@ed.co.sanmateo.ca.us> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:34 AM 5/18/98 +0000, you wrote: >that thread. My question is, if a hive does have foulbrood and is full >of bees, can the bees be saved? If you transfer the bees to new >equipment, will they re-infect the new frames and boxes?? I seems >lilkey that they will as the living bees must have the spores on them Hi Mason, Yes there will be spores in the bees guts, and yes the bees could be saved in localities that allow it. Here in California it would be a violation of the Law to do so. But no one is watching the store and I am sure many do try to save their AFB hives via modern applied chemistry. In the old days bees from AFB hives were saved by the "shaking" method which was simply shaking the bees and queen into a new hive with all foundation. It mostly worked good, the idea was that any contaminated honey was used to draw the foundation. Now that TM can be used as a prophylactic the old system looks better then it ever did and I would suspect that a 100% success rate is possible by feeding the bees TM in syrup for the first cycle of brood. ttul, the OLd Drone *BEEWARNED* This information is not a recommendation or is it provided to suggest anyone do anything but follow fully the instruction of their federal and state bee law enforcement agencies and their local bee cops and is only provided for your interest and entertainment as the OLd Drone nor I are responsible or LICENSED or are we in the loop or on the take or will we be in the right position to know what is legal in any area including our own as every area has its zealots who would hang you if they caught you with your pants down even if it was only to remove a bothersome bee, so BEESMART and use caution on how you use any information from such a DOBEEIS source. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 20:06:52 +0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Carlos Aparicio Subject: Re: Dancing Bees! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:27 AM 19/05/1998 -0400, Rod Billett wrote: ... >My question is Why are they attempting to propolize the bottom board and >landing board. They are well painted, and quite smooth with no holes, >scratches, or cuts. Also, I have not seen many ants crawling around the >landing or bottom board. ... The floor is a critical part of the beehive. Possibly the bees prefer in the floor propolis to painting. The propolis has antiseptic and mechanical properties that can defend the bees from their small enemies, perhaps even the varroa. I put on some beehives floor a mesh for propolis capture. I can't report results yet. CARLOS APARICIO ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 21:51:25 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Mares Subject: kyoto bee sanctuary Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain My literary agent just told me of having wandered into a "bee sanctuary-temple" in Kyoto, Japan, where there was a single enormous hive in the middle of a garden. When she entered, she was immediately covered with bees, which did not sting her once for the thirty minutes she wandered around the garden. When she left, the bees stayed. Has anyone on the list ever been to such a place or heard of such an episode? Thanks, Bill Mares "Bee Happy in Your Work!" ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 00:02:24 +0100 Reply-To: mail.lists@dial.pipex.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bernie Duggan - Mail Lists a/c Subject: Re: Pollination Books Sought MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'd also appreciate any suggestions on wildflowers as nectar and pollen sources. Roger, The best book that I have used in this connection is E.B. Wedmore's "A Manual of Beekeeping" ISBN 0 905652 01 0 which gives internationally-useful lists of nectar and pollen plants. This is an old-fashioned but very valuable book - in print for 66 years! Regards, Bernie Duggan, Denbury, Devon, UK. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 21:21:45 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Richard H. Glassford II" Subject: Bees / Drones / Insecticides Comments: cc: glassman@utah.uswest.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, Hello, I am a new beekeeper in Lindon Utah, just south of Salt Lake City. I have one hive and I am getting another nuc this weekend. I find them fascinating. I have two questions I was hoping to have answered. 1. When will all the ladies get rid of all the drones? I see them throughout the day but not so much in the late evenings. 2. I have a small orchard with many squash plants under those trees. Wild bees love to collect the pollen from the flowers. I am assuming that my honey bees will do the same. The fruit trees will need to be sprayed throughout the season. The hive is about 50 feet from the trees. Will the over spray onto the squash plants affect the bees only when it is wet. Are there certain kinds of pesticides that are less lethal to the bees. I usually use diazinon and malathion for my apples and cherries. Any advice is greatly appreciated, Rich ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 16:59:25 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Midnitebee Subject: Re: shipment of bees all dead MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Holly-B Apiary P.O.Box 26 Wells,Maine 04090-0026 http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee -----Original Message----- From: BeeCrofter To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Date: Tuesday, May 19, 1998 4:30 PM Subject: Re: shipment of bees all dead >In a message dated 5/19/98 10:52:15 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >midnitebee@CYBERTOURS.COM writes: > >> One final note:has anyone ever received a "crushed' package of bees?..were >> the screens opend/crushed/...was the wooden box "cracked"?..I have worked >at >I recieved queens from Texas where the queen cages were little splinters of >wood in a green onion sack with one very dead queen and one very beat up one. small package compared to a "package" of bees..there is a difference..oh,yes,the famous onion sack..shame on them.. I just got more queens from a california queen breeder(Glenn Apiaries)....they know how to ship queen bees...not an onion sack! ..useless thread..gone over this many times on this list. >Weavers replaced them of course.\ >However the postal guys made no mention of the damage- just heres your bees. what did you want them to do..hold a burial service? package is insured..sounds "cold",but what are they to tell you?.. remember what I said..delivery dead or alive..package was dilivered to you.. Herb > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 17:48:20 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: tomas mozer Subject: Re: Wild Bee's Infested with Varroa Mites Comments: To: beekeeping.guide.@mining.com about the only thing i could (legally) suggest is, if at all practical, to place apistan (fluvalinate) strips into as many entrance holes as possible...being a contact miticide, bees tracking on it would transport some into the hive and hopefully enough would be spread by grooming, etc. so as to have some effect...that is if it's not already too late. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 21:23:31 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Joel Govostes Subject: nectar, nectar everywhere - Report from c. NY In-Reply-To: <894789059@amigabee.org.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The early honey-flow has been remarkably HEAVY this year! There are 60+ ('at's a conservative estimate) lbs. nectar in most of the hives. In fact, the queens are not laying much, because the (double deep) brood chambers are so clogged with nectar. It must be honeysuckle -- we had lots of rain a couple of weeks ago, followed by prolonged, very warm sunny weather, and the ubiquitous blosssoms are evidently gushing nectar. Despite the congestion, I have only seen one colony with developed swarm cells, and they did not even swarm, judging by the strong population still present. It apparently ended up being a supersedure instead. Normally I'm bucking swarming in a number of colonies by now. Never seen a nectar flow of such magnitude, so early. The usual main flow begins with the black locust trees, around 1 June, but even they are early this year. I saw profuse bloom on them all over town today, already. The time is ripe to get more supers on, but I'm almost out of empties. Most hives have 3-4 on already. One guy I spoke to has 5 on all of his colonies and those are practically full. Somebody really turned on the spigot! The bees are bringing it in faster than they can ripen it, as there is not much capping going on yet even though the supers are filling up. Quite an amazing beginning to the honey season. (Not to complain.) What's cookin elsewhere? later, JG ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 23:57:43 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert Barnett Subject: Re: Hydrogen peroxide/foulbrood Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hello Ian! FWIW, read comments below. -------------- Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 20:28:23 -0400 From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: Foulbrood and saving bees >>You can clean the hives by washing them with a sodium hydroxide solution >Has anyone tried using Hydrogen Peroxide to wash combs with Foulbrood? After my first winter in beekeeping, all three of my hives died of an unknown disease. They had a white-ish mould growing on some of them, particularly where there was pollen.> When a colony dies *without* disease the pollen/honey mix will very often grow this white fungus you describe, which almost never indicates that disease was present. Was there evidence that this death was due to foulbrood? My assessment says the new bees simple cleaned up this comb, and the hydrogen peroxide had nothing to do with it.As marketed, this material is a 3 percent solution, and is a weak bleach. Water has a chemical formula of H2O, is very stable; H2O2 is the formula for hydrogen peroxide, and the extra oxygen molecule is very unstable, meaning it breaks off easily and oxidizes things such a hair, feathers, etc that would be injured by other than very mild bleaches. The bacillus larvae, causing foulbrood, is not an anaerobic organism, meaning that it does not require an envirement without or with very little oxygen to grow, to reproduce, and to thrive; were this the case, hydrogen peroxide might force it into its spore form, but a 3 per cent solution would not be able to kill the bacteria is significant numbers to make a difference. In this strngth, the small amount of O2 released on its application would be consumed in an instant by the large amount of organic matter in the brood nest comb. >A friend of mine suggested washingthem with a diluted Hydrogen Peroxide solution, and I did, and put new bees in them and they seemed to be fine. Since peroxide is used as an antiseptic on cuts, etc, I would assume it kills bacteria, which is what Foulbrood is. No? And if it doeswork, it should be safer than sodium hydroxide, which I think isthe same as bleach or similar. Just a thought. Comments?> I am a retired physician who has practiced 35 years, but not in the past 15. I am NOT offering any medical advice whatsoever here! Incidently, terramycin does not effectively kill bacillus larvae either, but does create such an unfavorable envirement that the vegetative, infectious status of active foulbrood is forced back into the non-infectious spore form. Bob Barnett, Birmingham >Ian Watson realtor@niagara.com >real estate agent gardener baritone >beekeeper---> 13 colonies ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 14:36:57 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard Barnes Subject: Mexican Fires Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I live in Oklahoma, USA and we have had several days that the smoke from the fires in Mexico have caused a haze to be in the air. It looks like the smog that is in large cities. I have noticed that the bees are a lot less active when the haze is in the air. Could smoke from a forest fire more than 1000 miles away cause the bees to feel that they are being constantly smoked? I feel that this is having a negative effect on my bees and have seen early honey production fall behind last year. The weather has been pretty much the same as last year with the exception of the "second hand" smoke. Most of Texas is under an air quality alert because of the particulate matter the fires have thrown into the air. Richard L. Barnes rbarnes@halnet.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 14:40:41 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard Barnes Subject: Mexican Fires Part 2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain To the beekeepers in the north west USA. Did the fires of Yellowstone a few years or St. Helena volcano cause honey production to fall due to smoke/ash falling 500 miles away? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 08:42:23 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Dr. Gerald L Barbor" Subject: Re: Powdered Sugar for Patties In the discussions of patties, the recipe always calls for granulated sugar. This makes patties that are hard to manipulate. Powdered sugar makes a patty that is easier to form and can be rolled thinner - easier to handle. Somewhere I have read negative things about the cornstarch in powdered sugar (I can't remember what), but we have been using it for years when dusting with Terramycin. I have used powdered sugar for patties for several years without apparent untoward effects. Comments? Jerry in PA _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 08:43:32 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Dr. Gerald L Barbor" Subject: Re: shipment of bees On Tue, 19 May 1998 10:39:51 -0400 Midnitebee writes: >The Postal service is the only carrier that will ship >bees/ducks/chickens/pheasents/etc..dead or alive. >Herb Koehnen Brothers of Glenn, CA ship queens via UPS Overnight Air. Shipped one afternoon - here at the homestead in PA by noon the next day. Jerry in PA _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 09:29:58 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Confectioners sugar in vegetable oil patties MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT From an economical viewpoint, Powdered Sugar/Confectioners Sugar will add $IGNIFICANTLY to the price of the vegetable oil patties. If you want to pay that price for smooth patties, well go ahead. But from an effective point of view, the bees won't notice the difference. Aaron Morris - thinking I need Jerry in PA's checkbook! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 10:06:41 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Joel Govostes Subject: Re: Powdered Sugar for Patties In-Reply-To: <19980520.084349.3182.0.glbarbor@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Perhaps the reason for using powdered sugar for Terra dusting is that it is similar in consistency to the TM powder itself, and this allows for a better homogenous application. This is only a guess. I have always just kept to the granulated sugar for grease/TM patties, but wonder if the bees would consume it just as quickly in a patty with powdered sugar. Anyone tried both, and ever noticed any difference? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 10:03:10 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter Subject: Re: Powdered Sugar for Patties Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/20/98 9:09:28 AM Eastern Daylight Time, glbarbor@JUNO.COM writes: > I have used powdered sugar for > patties for several years without apparent untoward effects. Comments? > Regular old table sugar run through a blender or a food processor for a few minutes is almost as fine as confectioners sugar- I really dont think the bees care -in fact you could probably make the patties with sand and grease. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 10:56:09 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard Bonney Subject: Re: Powdered Sugar for Patties MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anyone making small amounts of patties might try powdering granulated sugar by running it through a food blender first. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 12:06:24 -0700 Reply-To: gclewis@penn.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Gary C. Lewis" Subject: Patties one more time MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Bee People, There seems to be great faith in the grease pattie in helping with T-mites. It has been written here and in other places that the patties shopuld be left on, non medicated during a flow, all year round. How does one do this in the winter, in the northern USA, where temps in the winter can get well below Zero(f)? Do we place addition patties in the hives before the weather sets in the cold mode? I would not want to chance opening a hive and having it chilled or dampened. I lost one hive this winter because of cold and wet. My fault but the results were a dead hive. Thank You for your time. Gary C. Lewis Duke Center, Pa. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 12:23:17 -0700 Reply-To: gclewis@penn.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Gary C. Lewis" Subject: A Queen by any other name? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello List, Last winter someone posted a question about "Queens" and the different breeds that are out there for us to try. The question was never really answered. Some one replied:"Don't believe all you read" and went on about money and this and that but did not answer the question so I will ask the question and would like an answer, not something about suppliers and breeders and cousin Joe making money. So with that said. What exactly is an "Yugoslavian ARS-Y-C-1"? How do they/it differ from the Italian(all I've ever had)? What is/are "Midnight" and "Starline"? I have heard this name many times "Buckfast". People seems to think highly of them. Why? Thank You for your time. Gary C. Lewis Duke Center, Pa. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 14:01:29 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Grease patties in winter and ARS-Y-C-1 bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Gary C. Lewis asked about > grease patties in winter.... This was asked and answered last week. Although I haven't searched the archives, the answer was to the effect that grease patties inserted in late fall/early winter are not consumed nearly as fast as grease patties inserted in warmer months. In other words, insert a grease patty in late October/early November and some of it will most likely still be around in late February/early March when it's close to be opening your hives for early (perhaps VERY early) spring evaluations. Contributing authors to the answer included George Imirie, LLoyd Spear and myself. Gary C. Lewis also asked about: > ... the different breeds (of bees) that are out there for us to try. specifically > "Yugoslavian ARS-Y-C-1"? Also asked and and answered. The ARS-Y-C-1 are hybrid bees, some of the genetic material coming from Yugoslavian bees which showed resistence towards tracheal mites. As far as the traits of ARS-Y-C-1 bees I cannot offer personal testimony, I've never used them. However, the responses on BEE-L can be retrieved by sending to: LISTSERV@cnsibm.albany.edu a single line of mail that reads: SEARCH BEE-L "ARS-Y-C-1" many hits will be returned. As far as "Which are better, ARS-Y-C-1 or midnights or starlines or italians or buckfast or ..." the answer given (correctly so) is no one can say what bee is better for Gary Lewis than Gary Lewis, and only after Gary Lewis has tried 'em all, from many different breeders, for many seasons in many hives. There are many variables that will influnce your results, including location (both generally and specifically - results may vary from one region to another, even if the regions are in the same area (like Southeast US) but different locations (like Southeast US in N. Carolina, Greene county, rt 43, 3 miles east of Bodunk OR Southeast US in N. Carolina, Greene county, rt 43, 1 mile west of Bodunk, near a van down by the river). The same bees may perform differently in yards only 4 miles apart! Gary's question is too general for this global list. A specific answer simply is not available for such a general question. Ask local beekeepers in your area what bees have worked best for them and realize your results may vary. Suggested reading: _In_Search_for_the_Best_Strains_of_Bees_ by Brother Adam. Aaron Morris - thinking globally, acting BEE-Lly ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 14:00:51 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Steve Davis Subject: Re: nectar, nectar everywhere - MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We had such a mild winter most of my hives only used half of the stores in the brood box, not touching the shallow I leave them. The spring flowers came early, even the locust which hits ever other year. Swarming was rampant, and now I'm scrambling for shallows. A few years back we had a summer with rain where the flow continued through August. It really lightened up the harvest. Steve Davis western West Virginia >The early honey-flow has been remarkably HEAVY this year! There are 60+ >('at's a conservative estimate) lbs. nectar in most of the hives. In fact, ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 15:21:12 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: A Queen by any other name? Comments: To: gclewis@penn.com In-Reply-To: <35632DA5.A14@penn.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:23 PM 5/20/98 -0700, you wrote: >The question was never really answered. > Some one replied:"Don't believe all you read" and went on This should be said again and again. In my experience of over 40 years, and that not only includes buying and using queens but going out of my way to actually do a hands on visit with many bee breeders to see first hand how they do it so I could do it better. For a "fact" more times then not those with the biggest Ads, and those who promote their stock as being better at anything other then the queen being mated should be avoided like the plague. (The questions below are answered by the above.) > So with that said. What exactly is an "Yugoslavian ARS-Y-C-1"? How do >they/it differ from the Italian(all I've ever had)? What is/are >"Midnight" and "Starline"? I have heard this name many times "Buckfast". >People seems to think highly of them. Why? Over the years I have tried all of the above and did not find them to meet my own standards and did not find them to demonstrate any value not found in any other stock and in some cases they demonstrated some real negative traits such as ill temper of the "yugo's" and relitive short live span of the queens. Midnights and Starline's were once connected to the MicroSoft of the bee industry, DADANT & Sons, and for awhile were worth the extra cost when Dadant's kept their own bees and had several of the best beemen in the US on their payroll, but that is not the way it is today and I would not recommend this stock to anyone but those who just want to try something new and don't care about the cost or getting their neighbors stung. Others I am sure will tell you a different story and thats great, I want to read them myself, and things do change, but for certain the only way to judge anyone's queens is to try them yourself and make up your own mind...over a period of years. ttul, the OLd Drone http://beenet.com (c)Permission is given to copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 21:34:33 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: DNBrown Subject: Cleaning AFB Equipment Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I don't know about saving the bees in an AFB infected hive, but I can tell you what I have done to clean up suspect (second hand) woodenware. I use gamma radiation from cobalt-60. The beekeeper's association I belong to sponsors an irradiation every March, using a local sterilization facility (ISOMEDIX, they have several plants in the US). ISOMEDIX puts (I think) 2 megarads of gammma on whatever you ship to them. There is no radiation residue. This works on the hive, your bee suit, tools, and frames full of honey. You can't sell the honey but you can use it to feed your next batch of bugs. The process kills AFB spores, and any other bacteria in the comb or wood. We use a standardized size box and it is big enough to fit a deep super,and telescoping cover. My cost last year was around 6 dollars US for each box sent in, much cheaper than buying new, to sterilize the entire setup cost 40 dollars. I got a certificate of sterilization. There's a paper describing the technique and if I come across it I will give you all a reference. DB ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 20:57:20 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Walter T. Weller" Subject: Re: nectar, nectar everywhere - Report from c. NY Here in my part of east-central Louisiana (hills, north of the tallow-tree belt) we've had no rain in May, and the flow has suddenly dried up. The big workforce of bees has nothing to do and they're just hanging around looking for trouble. Two weeks ago I went through the hives in short sleeves. This week they come to meet me ten yards away with fists clenched, and sting through gloves and beesuit. I just got an e-mail note from the landowner at one beeyard ten miles from here (seriously allergic to stings) who ended up in an emergency room Saturday night after several hours of dosing himself with Benedryl and epinephrine to no avail. He's OK now, but I'm not leaving those bees on his place anymore. Good thing we've been friends since childhood. Walter Weller Post Office Box 270 Wakefield, Louisiana 70784 _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 22:39:14 -0400 Reply-To: vcoppola@froggernet.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Re: Powdered Sugar for Patties MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dr. Gerald L Barbor wrote: In the discussions of patties, the recipe always calls for granulated > sugar. This makes patties that are hard to manipulate. Powdered sugar makes a patty that is easier to form and can be rolled thinner - easier to handle. Comments? I agree. I've tried both and prefer powdered sugar. Besides being smoother and easier to form, its possible to make a sweeter patty that will be used in an acceptable time even in the fall. Its also possible to use liquid vegetable oil (cheaper too) so you can mix your batch without heat. We make about 145 lb. per batch in a half hour, no heat. Granulated sugar does not work with liquid oil. The cost of 6X sugar in 100lb bags is about the same as granular. Another advantage is that the patties made from liquid oil/6X do not change viscosity with temperature so if you set some patties on top covers in the sun, they will not melt. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 23:23:16 -0400 Reply-To: vcoppola@froggernet.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Re: A Queen by any other name? Comments: To: gclewis@penn.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gary C. Lewis wrote: > Hello List, What exactly is an "Yugoslavian ARS-Y-C-1"? How do they/it differ from the Italian(all I've ever had)? What is/are "Midnight" and "Starline"? I have heard this name many times "Buckfast". Probably too much to cover well here but in a nutshell- Yugoslavian ARS-Y-C-1 - "Yugos"- a line of Carniolans recently imported from Yugoslavia for their reported resistance to tracheal and varroa mites. No claims regarding varroa at present. I have not tried them but friends who have say they are a bit aggressive and a bit below par on honey production. Italians- large populations, light color, lots of brood, big swarms but they are not too inclined to swarm, may consume allot of honey, generally good bees, the favorites in the US for a long time. Carniolan- Very good bees for over wintering in the north. Very conservative use of winter stores, dark in color, queens shut down during nectar dearth, brood very quickly in the spring as soon as there is pollen. This trait gives them the reputation of being swarmy but that is not my experience. In fact because of the smaller swarms they throw you may not even notice it and honey production does not suffer as much as other types. Good bees when your flows are erratic and spread out through the season. Buckfast- Developed by Br. Adam at Buckfast Abbey. Br. Adam selected bees from from around the globe to create the "Buckfast". You'll just have to read the book to appreciate this one. They are very good at wintering and honey production, are gentle, and with a bit of selection tracheal mite resistance. Good ones are raised in Ontario. New World Carniolan- Carniolans breed by Sue Coby at Ohio State using the closed population system. They are produced by several companies in California. Excellent choice and my personal favorites. Starlines- Italian like queens breed with a double hybrid system. Select inbred lines are carefully crossed to produce a line that is an excellent honey producer, gentle, consistent. Was my favorite until the tracheal mite got here. I found them to be very susceptible to T-mite but that may be better now. Midnight- I don't think they are in production any more. They were Caucasians produced with a double hybrid system similar to Starline. Caucasians- very gentle, fair honey production, good wintering, lots of propylis, the crosses can be vicious. Remember these comments are a general description of traits. There is a great deal of variability in the various breeds and even queens from the same producer will differ. There are dark Italians and some Carnys are lighter. Talk to the local experts to see what works for them then try several to see what suits you. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 20:38:10 -0700 Reply-To: jcbach@yvn.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: James C Bach Subject: Grease patties MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Powdered sugar in grease patties: Powdered sugar works just fine instead of granulated sugar. I like it much better than granulated sugar because the patty doesn't break up during hive manipulations, and less is wasted on the bottom board. While the bees have been reported to not digest the cornstarch powdered sugar contains, you're not feeding very much powdered sugar to a hive. While Dr. Sammataro's research showed that leaving patties on all summer resulted in fewer Tracheal Mites (HBTM) than only using them in the spring (for AFB control), her research did not consider the sometimes wide variation in brood survivability between hives due to queen quality problems and other variables. These alone may have caused the reduction in HBTM between the control and treated colonies. I personally have not used any treatment for HBTM except for what small impact my TM grease patties may have. I use the TM grease patties only during the spring dearth period and then I use a half patty in the fall after supers are removed if it will be unusually warm allowing for extended bee flights and robbing of weak diseased hives. My HBTM percentages have ranged between 5-15 percent in the spring and fall for the last ten years. It is obvious from studying the colonies, and the bee behavior, that brood patterns range from what are called excellent to spotty. From my past studies I know that even an excellent brood capping pattern may cover a 35% brood survivability!!! Low levels of brood survivability, or any environmental or managerial occurrance which interrupts brood cycles, will keep HBTM and Varroa mite levels low. If grease patties are indeed significantly effective against HBTM they probably wouldn't need to be used all summer and certainly not year round. If we knew how long it takes to get the grease in the patty distributed throughout the bee cluster on the surface of bees, and how effective it is in reducing HBTM reproduction over time, one could calculate the number of brood cycles necessary to reduce mite populations a specific percent. The ideal pest control should eliminate a pest within several brood cycles of its host. It shouldn't take all year to do so. That just wouldn't be good pest control policy. My judgement would be to use the TM patties with powdered sugar during the spring for foulbrood control (before supers are added), and if you take supers off in mid to late August, put on another patty without TM, unless bees will rob AFB at that time of year. Do not have patties in the hive all winter. James C. Bach Yakima WA jbach@agr.wa.gov jcbach@yvn.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 02:44:39 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: A Queen by any other name? In-Reply-To: <199805202222.PAA04275@pop.thegrid.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > > ...Some one replied:"Don't believe all you read" and went on... > This should be said again and again. In my experience of over 40 years, > and that not only includes buying and using queens... Over the years I > have tried all of the above and did not find them to meet my own > standards and did not find them to demonstrate any value not found in > any other stock and in some cases they demonstrated some real negative > traits such as ill temper... I'm with Andy on this. As said here before the quality of breeder selection and attention paid to queen rearing methods is likely the most important factor in determining if you will be happy, or work hard for nothing. Good queen rearing and mating weather is something no queen breeder can control, but which will have more effect on quality and eventual satisfaction than almost any other factor. As far as various strains from different suppliers is concerned, I have tried most everything I could get my hands on over twenty-five years from the US, Canada and Down Under as well as raised my own, and must say that -- although I encountered some exceptional bees -- the duds were particularly memorable. Here are some (random) recollections: FWIW I remember one yellow strain from new Zealand that produced the most vicious bees that I ever encountered anywhere, anytime (and I have worked with Mexican bees). They were quite good at building up, and reached normal size from underweight packages (1.85 pounds arrived instead of the two pounds I paid for), but these bees would eat anyone alive. Moreover they did not winter at all well and were virtually all gone the next year. I had some 'Caucasians' from California that were grey and propolized everything liberally. They were so gentle that they could be worked half naked at night in a thunderstorm without any discomfort except for the crawling of many half dozens of tiny feet all over one's body. They were nice bees. I know that a friend remarked that his wintering losses were many times higher in a strain of 'Italian' queens received from Hawaii one year recently than from the same company's 'Carniolans'. We raised our own queens for several years and with simple selection techniques and attention to feeding the cell builders made queens that developed hives that were better than we had seen in many years. However, so far this year we are seeing like results -- and we are buying queens anywhere we can find them. It's just a great year so far and anything looks good. We used some bees from British Columbia for several years that were extremely conservative. They survived nicely without spring or fall feeding, but did not make big crops. We ordered 'Buckfast' from Texas 25 years ago. The most remakable feature was the amount of brace comb they built in the brood box. They would have been ideal for that woman artist in Manitoba that forces the bees to make odd shaped comb then displays it as 'art'. I remember the first Australian bees I bought. We marked the hives with coloured tacks and two years later most were still alive and the same hives were often found to be among the top producers in each yard even though they were few in total numbers compared to other sources. (We mark the best three hives in each yard -- at least we did when raising queens). I remember installing 100 packages of bees from California in one yard and having every single one turn out perfect and identical. Bees from down under may tend to have a very high chalk brood count (Sometimes almost full frames of CB) compared to North American (including Hawaiian) bees. The reason: North Americans have selected against CB and it responds in only a few generations. I don't believe that chalkbrood is seen down under. (Correct me anyone). However some bees from the same regions seem free of chalkbrood. Yellow bees tend to build up early, maintain large populations and raise brood in times when other bees won't. This can lead to starvation in winter unless sufficient space is provided and sufficient stores -- including pollen -- are left on the hive. They tend to store honey outside the brood area better and thus fill supers well, but can leave the brood boxes light in fall. However, having said this, I have seen dark bees that have this characteristic and yellow bees that are the opposite. The conservative bees I mentioned above were yellow. All in all, there is no way to decide except by asking beekeepers in your area and trying some bees. The same strain may act entirely differently in different areas of the world and also be successful one year and not the next. Management techniques are a huge factor and will account for many of the differences reported -- including some that are attributed to the bees. We use a method that works for pretty well any type of bee: * Two standard brood boxes with mostly dark combs. * An excluder above the second at all times. * seldom disturb the brood boxes except to split and reverse in early spring. *Feed well spring and fall * Try to maintain ~ 50 kg (65-70 kg for wintering) *Super well ahead of the bees until August, then cut back to only what is needed *Leave a super on until well after the last flow. Of course we do use other techniques, since we are always experimenting, but this is our main method. Allen ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 07:40:37 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Return-Path: <> Received: from CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@ALBNYVM1) by CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with BSMTP id 6526 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 18:10:31 -0400 Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 18:10:31 -0400 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8c)" Subject: BEE-L: approval required (58C780) To: Aaron Morris This message was originally submitted by jskinner@UTKUX.UTCC.UTK.EDU to the BEE-L list at CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU. You can approve it using the "OK" mechanism, ignore it, or repost an edited copy. The message will expire automatically and you do not need to do anything if you just want to discard it. Please refer to the list owner's guide if you are not familiar with the "OK" mechanism; these instructions are being kept purposefully short for your convenience in processing large numbers of messages. ------------------ Original message (ID=58C780) (74 lines) -------------------- Return-Path: Received: from ALBNYVM1 (NJE origin SMTPIN1@ALBNYVM1) by CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with BSMTP id 6524; Wed, 20 May 1998 18:10:30 -0400 Received: from mailhost.cas.utk.edu [128.169.76.44] by CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R4a) via TCP with SMTP ; Wed, 20 May 1998 18:10:29 EDT Received: from gis4.cas.utk.edu (GIS4.CAS.UTK.EDU [198.78.199.144]) by mailhost.cas.utk.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA23055 for ; Wed, 20 May 1998 18:09:39 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 18:09:37 -0400 (EDT) From: John A Skinner X-Sender: jskinner@gis4.cas.utk.edu To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Subject: Re: Bees / Drones / Insecticides In-Reply-To: <35624C49.4B9D@utah.uswest.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Rich, A few suggestions you may consider concerning question 2. below good luck, John John A. Skinner 218 Ellington Hall Extension Apiculturist University of Tennessee jskinner@utk.edu Knoxville, TN 37901 (423)974-7138 On Tue, 19 May 1998, Richard H. Glassford II wrote: > ... > 2. I have a small orchard with many squash plants under those trees. > Wild bees love to collect the pollen from the flowers. I am assuming > that my honey bees will do the same. The fruit trees will need to be > sprayed throughout the season. The hive is about 50 feet from the > trees. Will the over spray onto the squash plants affect the bees only > when it is wet. Are there certain kinds of pesticides that are less > lethal to the bees. I usually use diazinon and malathion for my apples > and cherries. > Native bees including the squash bee, Peponapis, will start to collect pollen very early-first light and your honey bees will punch their time clocks a half-hr later, if we can compare Utah and west TN. Check out when your squash flowers close up. The plants produce male and female flowers. pollen on males only, must be transferred to fruit producing female... The flowers are only open one day, usually begin to close in TN on a warm day at 9am and are closed tight by 11 or noon. After this time bees learn the storehouse is closed and stop visiting. On cold and or wet days the flowers may stay open longer. If spraying must be done, spray when the bees are not present - night or late afternoon. Diazanon and Malathion are both listed as highly toxic in a publication written by Larry Atkins and I would recommend that you choose something less toxic that will still do the job on the pest you are trying to control. This publication is probably available on the web and I can also snail mail one we have that has incorporated Larry's data into it, if you give me your address. I suggest you ask your county agent for suggestions of recommended materials in your local area. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 10:27:44 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Teresa Garcma Subject: Production systems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello bee people!! I=B4m very happy to have the opportunity to greet you again. I heard someone (can=B4t remember "who") mention that in "other countries= "=20 the government has booklets with directions on how to become a=20 beekeeper in different regions of the country. That is, if I=B4m=20 interested in how to keep bees in ..say...Texas...I can ask for a=20 booklet with details for that.=20 The person said, that that is called "production systems", and I would=20 like to know if that is true.=20 Tere ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 18:45:56 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: angel Subject: need help Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a geat problem with set honey.Every year I have to heat it to become fluid again.The other alternative would be using a homoginizer but it is too expensive. My problem is that with heating the honey all it's natural flavours seem to change a lot, and sometimes after a short period of time the honey will start to set again.I should appreciate it very much if someone could tell me why the honey sets even though the environment is quite warm and even though it was heated.Any suggestions and ides would all be appreciated. Sharon ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 18:34:12 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: A fine day in retreat Hi All Yesterday was a beautiful day in the eastern cape. The eucalyptus trees are flowering and supers filling noticeably despite the shortening days and pesty predacious birds. Swarms are numerous from wild hives, and some of these had settled in the roof of an Anglican retreat in the mountains near my town. A number of San Franciscan monks are about to move in there so the sisters resident there now called me in to get rid of the bees as apparently the brothers heard about the bees and fear for killer bees. Nevertheless, in shorts and t shirt I sat on the rooftop of the chapel removing tiles and large honey combs under the rather slack jawed stare of the local gardener (who had previously tried to remove the bees and ended up in hospital). Once removed I smoked the bees out and they settled in the tallest tree nearby. The top section of the tree was quite thin, so after talking for a while with the relevant sister (in charge of the garden) I recieved permission to shoot the top branch of the tree of. Half a box of ammo later (.22) the swarm came down neatly and landed in a lump on the lawn and rapidly resettled. I trimmed the branch, put the whole lot in a microwave oven's box (sent in advance by kind people from SF) and drove away in my car - leaving a gardener who could not understand what his ancestors were up to. (Xhosa people believe the bees are the ancestors - I am therefore on better terms with the gardeners ancestors than he is as I recieved no stings even although I probably put a few bullets through some of them!!) Oh yes - in the distance I could see the light blue ocean with a few ships on it and a nice yellow beach. One of those days that stands out as being 'special'. I am sure it will rain this weekend. Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis Eastern Cape Prov. South Africa Time = Honey ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 11:54:02 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Thyme Smith Subject: peroxide/hydroxide sterilization MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" i just wanted to clarify a point that came up earlier in the discussion: " And if it doeswork, it should be safer than sodium hydroxide, which I think isthe same as bleach or similar. Just a thought. Comments?>" hydroxide is a very strong, caustic base, while peroxide is a mild oxidant. they have two very different chemical functions (which doesn't necessarily mean that they don't both end up with the same effect (sterile equipment)). however, given hydroxide is something so powerful that you wouldn't want to leave a drop of it's solution on your hand for more than a few seconds, yet peroxide is used to gently clean open flesh wounds, i'd be curious if peroxide were strong enough to do a thorough job. besides i would guess it would be more expensive for the volume needed to clean equipment. just speculating... thyme ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 12:29:42 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Alan Montgomery Subject: Re: A Queen by any other name? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit With regard to your management techniques, the excluder above the second brood chamber? I have read that this can inhibit the production of honey? (honey excluder). I've really only read that an excluder is good for swarm control techniques and finding a queen. I would like to understand your use of the excluder. Where are you located? I am up here in Minnesota and have tried 3 high brood chambers as recommended by University of MN for wintering, but have now tried 2 high and have had good luck (el nino?). I like your minimal interference with the colony, but I always get worried about congested brood areas leading to swarm conditions. How do you go about controlling swarm tendencies? I too have had Italians (dark), (texas) Carniolans (california), Buckfast(texas) and all americans (texas) very strong colonies in spring and at least one of them is ornery i requeened last fall, but they still seem more difficult to work than their neighbors also all american Weaver's apiaries. A.M ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 18:09:26 -0400 Reply-To: vcoppola@froggernet.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Re: need help MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit angel wrote: > > I have a geat problem with set honey.I should appreciate it very much if someone could tell me why the honey sets even though the environment is quite warm and even though it was heated. Honey is a super-saturated solution of sugars. The amount of sugar that can stay in solution depends on, among other things, temperature, moisture content, and type of sugar. When conditions are right and there are "seeds" (bits of pollen, dust, small particles for crystals to form on) sugar will come out of solution in the form of crystals. Heating will restore it to a liquid state but if any crystals or seeds remain it will set up again. Commercial packers heat honey to a high temperature to guarantee all crystals are liquefied then filter it finely to remove all possible seeds, then quickly cool the honey back down so that it stays fairly light and good tasting. Some kinds of honey, such as goldenrod, basswood, canola, have the type of sugar that will crystallize easily. Other honey like locust, sumac, cherry, knot weeds rarely crystallize even when exposed to outdoor temperatures. Since repeated heating will diminish a honeys quality its best to liquefy only the amount you need to pack or use immediately. We never expose honey to a temperature greater than 120F, usually 110F, and don't have much problem with crystalization. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 17:22:14 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mark Gosswiller Subject: Upper Entrance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I would like to experiment with the 'upper entrance' notion with my hives. Has anyone out there used this type of setup? I would be interested in hearing about the pros and cons of this. some questions I have are: 1. What do they use for a landing board? 2. What is the best way to create the upper entrance? 3. Are you suppose to close the bottom entrance if using the upper entrance?