========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 23:56:21 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: George W Imirie Subject: Re: How do the professionals requeen when they don't have the time to Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I can't speak for all; but some simply, with lots of smoke to disguise scent and colony protocol, just release a young laying queen on the top bars of the upper body, and rely of the natural chances of nature that a YOUNG queen moving DOWNWARD from the top towards the BROOD area will be able to defeat the old queen upon arrival on the scene and take over the colony. In "some ways", the "program" has many of the ingredients of queen supercedure, where the young queen is allowed to emerge, cruise about the hive for 5-6 days, mate, and take over the colony while the old queen is still there alive for a short time. Then there are commercial beekeepers who at summers end, remove all supers and ship just a one or two story hive south for the winter. The beekeeper's helpers are pretty quick at finding the old queen among just 10 or 20 frames, kill her, and requeen. If there are 100 commercial beekeepers, there are 100 different ways of requeening, but few of the ways are what we hobbyists have time to do. They also have to "play percentages", i. e., their method might not be the best, but it is FAST and it works MOST of the time. If it doesn't, well, we lost that swarm, so we will make an additional split in the spring. Dale: If you wanted a portrait of yourself as an obituary picture, could you wait the 2-3 years it might take Leonardo Devinci to paint it, or would you get one of the Walt Disney character painters to do it for you in a few hours? Commercial beekeepers are making their living doing pollination and/or producing honey; whereas the hobbyist is pleasurizing his ego, not his pocketbook. I hope this helps. Thanks for asking. George Imirie ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 01:07:58 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Teresa Garcma Subject: Semen preserv MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi dear bee people! Does anyone know if Dr Moritz has an e-mail address nowadays? and, do you know if someone in the world is doing research about drone semen? Thank you!! Tere ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 08:14:48 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mike Swintosky Subject: Re: Help! Bear in Apiary! A homemade "critter gitter" might be assembled using a motion activated light, one of those screw-in outlets and a radio tuned to an all-night station. Of course, this would only work where appropriate power is available at the bee yard. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 14:43:27 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: IBRA Subject: IBRA's latest books catalogue MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I have just completed a total overhaul/update of the IBRA book catalougue on the web - all the latest titles and prices etc. are all in one place. We have a pretty good selection, and ordering is easy - from anywhere. All the income generated from books sales is used to support our work in helping beekeepers and bee scientists wolrdwide - particularly in developing countries. Check it out at: http://www.cardiff.ac.uk/ibra/ =================================================== Dr Pamela Munn, Deputy Director and Editor International Bee Research Association 18 North Road, Cardiff CF1 3DY, UK Tel: (+44) 1222 372409 Fax: (+44) 1222 665522 Email: munnpa@cf.ac.uk =================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 09:17:14 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Bears and Commercial Re-queening Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Montana is bear country. Our Beekeeping Association and Fish and Wildlife Department have worked up methods of keeping bears out of yards. So far, the only dependable method is an electric fence, but not any old fence. Our beekeepers can get a solar charger from the State. The fences are weed zappers - they really pack a wallop. Because our climate is dry in the fall when the bears are down in the lowlands and hungry, a wire mesh is laid flat on the soil in front of the fence to make a fool proof ground. The bear has to stand on the mesh when he/she hits the fence. This approach does work. But the cheap fence chargers and poor grounds don't. As per requeening by commercial operations (which is mainly what we have), George Imrie has it right. Our folks normally requeen in their stockpile yards, right after taking the 1-2 story units off the truck. And most do find the old queen and pinch her, but a good crew can do several hundred hives in a day. As George said, they play the odds. If they don't find her fast, they move on to the next hive. Some will come back later, other will just drop in the new queen. But, we have worked in commercial yards with 50-100 hives and watched a 2-3 people inspect the entire yard in less time than the average person with 2-3 hives in the back yard. But they don't waste any time or effort. Jerry J. Bromenshenk jjbmail@selway.umt.edu http://www.umt.edu/biology/bees ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 09:39:41 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Commercial Beekeepers/Hive Inspection Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" This should get a comment from Andy. Ok, I learned my beekeeping from commercial beekeepers. And each does it his/her own way. Some list members have asked me how anyone can inspect a yard with 50-100 bees in a very short time. The basic steps are: 1. They keep their smokers going and usually only need to flip their veil up when they get out of the truck - no dressing/undressing in the yard. 2. They visually scan the yard as they walk up to it. An experienced beekeeper immediately looks at flight activity, whether bees are bringing in pollen, etc. Any suspect colonies are noted and will get further attention. They also use their sense of smell and look for things like skunk or bear droppings, digging, or scratches on the hive. All of this happens before the first hive is opened and takes very little time. 3. A bit of smoke, pop the cover, pull a frame from the outside to get some room, slide frames over, then pull a frame that should have brood. No brood, pull another. Find a brood frame, take a quick look for brood (eggs, larvae, pupae), signs of disease or mites (varroa), and presence of pollen stores and nectar or honey. If there are single eggs in the center of cells, no signs of disease, and pollen and nectar/honey stores, the frame(s) are replaced and the hive is closed. DON'T WASTE TIME LOOKING FOR THE QUEEN. Healthy brood and eggs, she is present and laying (or at least was within the last day or so). 4. Queen cells -- During swarm season. Tip back the main brood box and look at the bottom bars for signs of queen cells. Strong colonies, tip back each of the brood boxes and look for queen cells. If queen cells are present, a decision is made about the next step (swarm prevention, add boxes, cut cells, etc. depending on the colony, size, etc.) 5. Early- to mid- summer, place queen excluder between first and second brood box. Don't WASTE TIME LOOKING FOR THE QUEEN. On the next trip, look for brood, put the box with brood on the bottom under the queen excluder. 6. Mid-summer, fall (or during nectar flows). Add and take off boxes. No hive inspection unless colony shows signs of failure. If a queen is lost mid-season, most let the colony re-queen itself. 7. Medication is usually applied in the spring when the hives are re-queened, and/or just after the honey crop is removed. Migratory beekeepers often pull colonies into stockpile areas for loading onto large trucks - medicate, inspect, etc. at that time. Ok, Andy, now you can tell us how you did it. Cheers, Jerry ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 10:13:39 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Saving and Printing Data and Charts from the On-Line Observation Hive Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi again. We have been getting questions about how to capture the data and charts from our Web site's On-Line bee hive. All of the data - bee flight activity, weather, colony core temperature (when we get the new A/D system up and running) is ARCHIVED in sets of two column tables. Each cell of a Table contains 24 hrs of data. The name of the file is the date on which the data was collected. The current day always appears at the bottom of the Table columns. Data Formats: If you click on the left column, you will see the day's data in an ASCII text format. If you click on the right column, you will see the day's data displayed as a chart (assuming you have a JAVA capable browser) that you can manipulate (turn variables on and off, set up a second or alternative Y axis, etc. Capturing Data: You can Print the text-based data set by simply using the Print command under the File command of your browser. You can capture the data by displaying the text file on your computer screen; then using the Copy or Cut command under your Browser's Edit command. If you want all of the data, use the Select All command under Edit. If you want part of the data, use your mouse to paint in the part of the data set that you want to capture. Now switch to a spreadsheet, database, or word processor program. Open a new file, then use the Paste function under the program's Edit command to copy the data into your new file. Capturing JAVA Graphs: Unfortunately, your Browser's Print command will not print a JAVA graph. You can get a separate utility to print JAVA graphs, or capture the chart from your computer screen. On a PC, display a day's chart on your monitor. Then, press the ALT and Print Scrn Keys at the same time. Now, switch to a word processor or graphics program, open a new file, and use the Paste command under Edit to copy the chart into your application. Remember, you are only getting a picture of the chart, you can't manipulate it in your application nor can you extract the underlying data from the captured chart. You may be able to paste the chart into a spreadsheet or database program, but it will still be a snapshot of the chart as you arranged it in the Web browser (not an actual chart produced by the spreadsheet or database software). Finally, if you grab the text-based data, you can re-plot that data using your own chart or graph software. Any spreadsheet, database, or graphics program that can create charts or graphs should work. Cheers Jerry Jerry J. Bromenshenk jjbmail@selway.umt.edu http://www.umt.edu/biology/bees ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 20:27:57 +0100 Reply-To: mpym@hive.netkonect.co.uk Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Madeleine Pym Subject: Madeleine says hi, only better (we hope) Comments: To: "Dr. Reimund Schuberth" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi again folks, Due to several responses telling me about the fact that noone could read my message in HTML/MIME, and after some good instructions for rectifying the thing, I am resending a hello, and taking my second orientation flight. Also, as several of you want to know how on earth a beekeeper keeps bees in London, I have included a brief outline. Actually there are lots of us, and clubs too, but here's a little about how I am doing it. I live in North London about 5 miles from the city centre, and with at least that far to go to get to the outskirts of town and the countryside. I have quite a long and wide garden and my bees, 2 colonies and 2 nucs, are tucked underneath linden/lime trees at the bottom. They face the back fence, fly out and turn 180 degrees, then carve a flight path straight through my garden about 10 feet or so up. I am also lucky because I have very tolerant neighbours. This area is surrounded by large parks and an old strip of what was marshland, so the bees have plenty of forage. London is greener than people think. You might be surprised at the amount of honey that can be collected here. As with many cities we have a longer season and greater variety for the bees than our country cousins. Last season I took 300lb of honey from the one colony. Compared with a UK average of something like 30lb I consider I did extrememly well. And all this despite several years living with (and treating) varroa. But I don't think it is just London, my queen has been phenomenal, good tempered, a non-stop layer, with nice workaholic, healthy and hardy bees that don't seem to eat at all in the winter. What more could one ask for. Hence she is being rested in a nuc as I hope to breed more queens from her. My previous yields, prior to this particular superscedure had been about 60-70lb. Which is more like the usual London yield. So I am hoping to expand, inspired by my father who keeps 25-30 colonies outside London, but finding space beyond my garden is difficult. Most of the authorities that run the parks, allotments, and so on tend to be bee-phobic, or worried about liability in the event someone might get stung one day, and so they don't dare take the risk of giving space over to beekeepers. My latest idea is to work within a beehouse which is also fenced off, safer both for me and the bees - with regard to vandals and general lunatics - which we have a fair few of. I also think it might be something which local authorities might consider more seriously. In view of this I am currently researching into bee-houses. They are not at all common in England, so I have not got much to go on. I gather there is a book coming out soon, but in the mean time if you have experience of working in this way I would love to hear from you so I can build up a picture of what to consider in its design. In the long term, what with the whole crisis in beekeeping that has hit us all, or rather I should say - the bees, it would be great to get something like this established here in London, as a community resource as well, so that schools and other groups could come and learn about bees, and this whole sticky business we're in. But that's just a pipe dream right now. One thing at a time. * By the way, I have no sense of internet protocol being a novice in cyberland so if this letter is way too long I do apologise. And if after taking your time up it's still illegible I shall be mortified at the very least, not to mention embarrassed and humiliated. Madeleine PS Anyone going to Ireland on the 20th July for the Federation of Irish Beekeepers' Associations week long 'Summer Course', if so I'll see you there. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 15:12:09 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Oberle Subject: Re: Commercial Beekeepers/Hive Inspection MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >5. Early- to mid- summer, place queen excluder between first and second >brood box. Don't WASTE TIME LOOKING FOR THE QUEEN. On the next trip, look >for brood, put the box with brood on the bottom under the queen excluder. > Do you really put the queen excluder between the brood boxes. This doesnt seem to make sense to me as it would prevent the queen from laying in the second box. Could you please explain further. Thanks Michael Oberle NTS1@ix.netcom.com Network Technical Services Inc. Minnesota The place where absolutely nothing is allowed. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 15:33:34 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Commercial Beekeepers/Hive Inspection In-Reply-To: <199807082052.OAA01518@selway.umt.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 03:12 PM 7/8/1998 -0500, you wrote: >Do you really put the queen excluder between the brood boxes. This >doesnt seem to make sense to me as it would prevent the queen from laying >in the second box. > >Could you please explain further. Some drop it on top of the second box. But here, our commercial folks will either over-winter the bees in Montana or truck them to California. If going to CA, they want to knock the hives down to 1 or 2 boxes because of the logistics of moving thousands of hives (you can get more on the truck). If staying over the winter, they want to be sure that they leave a full super of honey on the hive (which again will be no more than 2 boxes). In either case, the bare essentials are a brood box and a feeder box. So, when they pull the honey supers, they want to know that a full box of honey is left on the hive. But, they don't want to stop and look. Jerry > > >Thanks >Michael Oberle >NTS1@ix.netcom.com > >Network Technical Services Inc. > > >Minnesota The place where absolutely nothing is allowed. > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 20:45:13 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Midnitebee Subject: Pink pages!!/update! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings! The following articles by George Imirie are listed below: New Varroa Treatment Schedule/what about the tracheal mite?/a foraging question.. All articles are located here:http//www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee/ Herb Holly-B Apiary P.O.Box 26 Wells,Maine 04090-0026 http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 18:06:55 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Andy Nachbaur (by way of Andy Nachbaur )" Subject: How the Good News gets around via AP Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Bee Keepers & Friends, Some things seem to catch the old Editors eye and this story, really a non-story about the dreaded AFRO-worms has set a new non April Fool's days record for the number of newspapers running with it. Below you will find only a fraction of what my News Spiders (super search engines) are returning with. This is much more then has ever been picked up before even with killer bees doing their thing on some poor guy on a loud smelly lawn mower. What's up here? I am not sure, maybe a dearth of news or just some compulsion to bee the first to print the bee keepers obit. Well it was from the Ass. Press and they try to get it right. Well what's the real story? Its really what we don't know, sure a few hives in Florida have been found with this worm, and sure many thousands of other Florida hives have been moved from coast to coast this season. But so what for all we know God sent us this pest from Africa to take care of the grater wax worm as it takes care of the lesser wax worm who takes care of the Indian head meal moth which feeds on pollen stored in the bee hive or any place else. Or maybe the grater wax worm will eat the Afro-worm, I don't know but I do know its not the end, or even close to it. The Miss truths about this pest are going to come back to grab us by the rear ends if we are not quick. First the worms are NOT honey eaters but like wax worms will take over a weak bee hive in the warmer climes such as can be found from Florida to Central California. The wax worms in these areas can cause a super of honey to run out the entrance and make a big mess, but this is not the norm because most hives that become so weak as not to be able to defend themselves normally have little surplus honey as other bees have robbed it or they never have it. This pest is a pollen feeder same as a wax moth and the same as a wax moth they take in the wax and out comes little blocks of wax which if they do get in the honey float like most other junk to the top and can be removed then or in the filtration process. Don't sound good but that's how it works and always has since comb honey was replaced by extracted honey and in the days of comb honey most have forgotten the problem one experienced with wax worms of one size or another. Early day comb honey wooden shipping containers had glass windows to see the boxes of honey and to discourage wax moths. Oh my gosh no chemical controls for the Afro-worm, well who needs them, and who is going to spend the 10 mill $$ to register something.. NO it won't happen because the treatments now in use for wax worms or wax moths in stored bee combs will take care of this new fellow, and your mother in law if you are not careful. I am sure you are careful. Well this little bugger pupates in the ground after killing your bees and eating all your honey>give any wax worm a way to the ground and you would be surprised what would happen, but so what, if a bee keepers is interested in polluting the ground water around his hives, killing his bees, then no problem...just use what is so often recommended for ants and if you use enough to kill any ants the Afro-worm will be long dead, so will your dog, and the water you drink my smell bad and have a brown color but we can do it. What I am saying here is that we should all understand that bees kill and we should protect ourselves from killer bees but why not wait before blowing our brains out because some new Afro bug has got a hold in Florida. I am willing to bet that your hives are in a honey flow that if you go out side tonight around mid night and shine a light on your hive entrance you will be amazed if not shocked at what is going in and out of your hives and many of these creatures would not bee very attractive on our plates. ttul, the OLd Drone Everyone is welcome to do the Honey survey at: http://beenet.com or http://beenet.com/bnews.htm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>spider results below>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> current catalog created at 10:45 on 8/7/98 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The New York Times : Vital Honeybees Face New Threat <1> http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/w/AP-Threatened-Bees.html July 8 1998 Vital Honeybees Face New Threat A P INDEXES Filed at 1 51 a m EDT By The Associated Press WASHINGTON AP -- A sweet-toothed South African beetle that can ruin hives is the latest danger looming for America s honeybees which have Star Tribune : Vital Honeybees Face New Threat <1> http://webserv1.startribune.com/cgi-bin/stOnLine/article?thisStory=45664545 Published Wednesday July 8 1998 Vital Honeybees Face New Threat By CURT ANDERSON AP Farm Writer WASHINGTON AP -- A sweet-toothed South African beetle that can ruin hives is the latest danger looming for America' s honeybees, which have NJO News : Vital honeybees face new threat in beetle from South Africa <1> http://wire.nj.com/cgi-bin/nj_nview.pl?/home1/wire/AP/Stream-Parsed/WASHINGT ON/a0434_PM_ThreatenedBees AOL Users Keyword Site Search Copyright 1998 New Jersey Online © Vital honeybees face new threat in beetle from South Africa By CURT ANDERSON The Associated Press 07 08 98 1 37 AM Eastern WASHINGTON AP -- A sweet-toothed South African beetle Waco Tribune-Herald : Vital Honeybees Face New Threat <1> http://www.accesswaco.com/shared-cgi/aponline/show_story.cgi?id=aponline-men us-data/National.AP.V0103.AP-Threatened-Bees.story&menu=National • Vital Honeybees Face New Threat By CURT ANDERSON AP Farm Writer WASHINGTON AP --A sweet-toothed South African beetle that can ruin hives is the latest danger looming for America s honeybees which have already been devastated by nationwide Oregon Live : Vital honeybees face new threat in beetle from South Africa <1> http://flash.oregonlive.com/cgi-bin/or_nview.pl?/home1/wire/AP/Stream-Parsed /WASHINGTON/a0434_PM_ThreatenedBees Vital honeybees face new threat in beetle from South Africa By CURT ANDERSON The Associated Press 07 08 98 1 37 AM Eastern WASHINGTON AP -- A sweet-toothed South African beetle that can ruin hives is the latest danger looming for America s : Vital honeybees face new threat in beetle from South Africa <1> http://flash.al.com/cgi-bin/al_nview.pl?/home1/wire/AP/Stream-Parsed/WASHING TON/a0434_PM_ThreatenedBees Instant news around the clock Can t see our navigation applet? Enable java in your browser or use the links below Site Search Vital honeybees face new threat in beetle from South Africa By CURT ANDERSON The Associated Press 07 08 98 1 37 AM Newsday : Vital Honeybees Face New Threat <1> http://www.newsday.com/ap/rnmpnt0s.htm Vital Honeybees Face New Threat By CURT ANDERSON AP Farm Writer WASHINGTON AP -- A sweet-toothed South African beetle that can ruin hives is the latest danger looming for America s honeybees which have already been devastated by nationwide The Las Vegas Sun : Vital Honeybees Face New Threat <1> http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/nat-gen/1998/jul/07/070800103.html Previous Next July 07 1998 Vital Honeybees Face New Threat ASSOCIATED PRESS WASHINGTON AP -- A sweet-toothed South African beetle that can ruin hives is the latest danger looming for America s honeybees which have already been devastated by Cleveland Live NewsFlash : Vital honeybees face new threat in beetle from South Africa <1> http://flash.cleveland.com/cgi-bin/clv_nview.pl?/home1/wire/AP/Stream-Parsed /WASHINGTON/a0434_PM_ThreatenedBees Vital honeybees face new threat in beetle from South Africa By CURT ANDERSON The Associated Press 07 08 98 1 37 AM Eastern WASHINGTON AP -- A sweet-toothed South African beetle that can ruin hives is the latest danger looming for America s The Grand Forks Herald : The Story <1> http://www.gfherald.com/news/daily/78/78bugs.htm Wednesday July 8 1998 Pitter patter buzz buzz After rains cities continue rain-delayed mosquito spraying By Melissa Scram Herald Staff Writer Lately the Mosquito Control Program has had cause to burst into a chorus of rain rain go away If they The Boston Globe : Vital honeybees face new threat in beetle from South Africa <1> http://www.boston.com/dailynews/wirehtml/189/Vital_honeybees_face_new_threat _in_.htm News wires Regional news Vital honeybees face new threat in beetle from South Africa By Curt Anderson Associated Press 07 08 98 01 37 WASHINGTON AP - A sweet-toothed South African beetle that can ruin hives is the latest danger looming for The Star Telegram : Vital honeybees face new threat in beetle from South Africa <1> http://www.startext.net/news/doc/1047/1:BPAGE32/1:BPAGE32070798.html Updated Tuesday Jul 7 1998 at 21 50 CDT Vital honeybees face new threat in beetle from South Africa By Curt Anderson AP Farm Writer WASHINGTON -- Already decimated by an invasion of mites America s honeybees are now faced with a new threat USA Today : U.S. honeybees face new threat <1> http://www.usatoday.com/life/science/biology/lsb001.htm <!-- BEGIN AD1 -- Inside Healthand Science • • • • • • Inside Life • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • Search •   • Resources • • • • The Nando Times : America's honeybees facing new threat <1> http://www2.nando.net/newsroom/ntn/health/070798/health14_9702_noframes.html America s honeybees facing new threat Copyright © 1998 Nando net Copyright © 1998 The Associated Press WASHINGTON July 7 1998 5 04 p m EDT http www nandotimes com -- Already decimated by an invasion of mites America s honeybees are The Nando Times : America's honeybees facing new threat <1> http://www2.nando.net/newsroom/ntn/nation/070798/nation12_9577_noframes.html America s honeybees facing new threat Copyright © 1998 Nando net Copyright © 1998 The Associated Press WASHINGTON July 7 1998 4 57 p m EDT http www nandotimes com -- Already decimated by an invasion of mites America s honeybees are : Retransmits to insert dropped AP logo -- 7/7/98, 4:30 PM <1> http://www.tampabayonline.net/news/flor100x.htm 7 7 98 -- 4 30 PM Retransmits to insert dropped AP logo WASHINGTON AP - Already decimated by an invasion of mites America s honeybees are facing a new threat a South African beetle found in Florida that has a taste for honey and forces bees The Boston Globe : Vital honeybees face new threat in beetle from South Africa <1> http://www.boston.com/dailynews/wirehtml/188/Vital_honeybees_face_new_threat _in_.htm News wires Regional news Vital honeybees face new threat in beetle from South Africa By Curt Anderson Associated Press 07 07 98 15 09 WASHINGTON AP - Already decimated by an invasion of mites America s honeybees are now faced with a new threat The Las Vegas Sun : Vital Honeybees Face New Threat <1> http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/nat-gen/1998/jul/07/070700726.html Next Today July 07 1998 at 12 37 40 PDT Vital Honeybees Face New Threat ASSOCIATED PRESS WASHINGTON AP -- Already decimated by an invasion of mites America s honeybees are now faced with a new threat a South African beetle with a taste for (c)Permission is given to copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 20:58:27 -0400 Reply-To: sun_rise@sympatico.ca Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Steve Organization: Sun Rise Systems, Computers & Honey Subject: Drones on grass MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all: Today one of my 4 Hives Swarmed. I caught the swarm and hived it. My Question is. When I went to check on my 4 hives, I found about 100 Drones and a few worker crawling around in the short grass in front of the hives. Is this normal? Steve sun_rise@sympatico.ca Ontario Canada ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 11:56:17 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: IBRA Subject: (Fwd) Unusual bee MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Can anyone help?? ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- From: Mona Zaidi To: "'ibra@cardiff.ac.uk'" Subject: Unusual bee Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 15:03:15 -0400 Dear Sir/Madam I am writing to you from Toronto, Canada with a question on the subject of bees. (I am a complete lay man on the subject and apologize in advance if this may sound like a stupid question) I recently observed a large number of bees in my area with bright green heads and black/yellow bodies. Is this a normal species in this area? I have never seen anything like them before and was just Please direct my query to someone who may be able to answer. Thank you for your time. Mona Zaidi, mz@interware.net ====================================================================== ***Important**** **Please state in the subject line to whom your message is intended** ====================================================================== International Bee Research Association 18 North Road, Cardiff CF1 3DY, UK Tel: (+44) 1222 372409 Fax: (+44) 1222 665522 E.mail: ibra@cardiff.ac.uk =================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 09:15:36 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Alan Pagliere Subject: getting mean MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I started my first hive in mid-late April (here in SE lower Michigan). Buckfast. The bees were very gentle for the first couple of months. I now have a busy colony with two deep brood chambers, one filled medium super and another that they are taking their time drawing, for some reason. I have been feeding them 1:1 syrup per just about everything I read here (the assumption being that they will stop taking it when they are happy with what's available elsewhere...). Of late, however, they seem to have gotten mean. They are angry when I gently replace the jar on the feeder; they buzz loudly and come after me. Even on beautiful sunny days with no wind, a quick peek under the cover and the mean buzz starts, they congregate, and they come after me with intent. (I guess I should be congratulated as I finally received my first sting a week ago. I am officially inaugurated...) Might it be that they are generally angrier than they were because they now have a real home with contents they wish to protect? Are Buckfast queens supposed to produce nastier offspring? Are they feeling grumpy because the flow is bad (I don't really think it is, but then again they are taking lots of syrup)? A friend about three miles away with Italians in their second year is doing fine, saw them last week and they were gentle as could be, and productive. I haven't checked the brood area in a while. I'm kind of afraid to (half gest, half truth). Last time I checked they had a reasonable amount of burr comb going down there, which I assume by now is back again. So, two general questions: 1) why could they be so grumpy? and 2) Do Buckfasts like to build burr comb? Should I worry about that after I worry about the loss of their gentleness (and my innocence)? You know, gotta have something to worry about. Thanks for any help. ------------------------------------------ | Alan Pagliere | | Ann Arbor, MI | | pagliere@umich.edu | | http://www.umich.edu/~pagliere/ | |------------------------------------------| ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 10:12:28 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Sherry Medders Subject: Bee Vision Hi Everyone, I got this great question in today. Can anyone help answer it? Can you tell me (citation) who discovered that Bees see ultraviolet light, and when? Thanks in advance for any replies. Kind Regards, Sherry Medders beekeeping.guide@miningco.com http://beekeeping.miningco.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 13:16:32 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Billy Whitener Subject: Re: Bee Vision MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In response to you query on bee vision......I believe the first study was von Frisch 1965, and more recently Rossel and Wehner in 1986, the only publication referring to von Frisch is as follows...( I didn't really dig to deeply into the literature) Frisch, K. von. (1971). Bees, their vision, chemical senses, and language. Cornell University Press, Ithaca, New York. also: Rossel, S. and R. Wehner. (1986). Polarization vision in Bees. Nature 323:128-131 overall I would attribute the "discovery to von Frisch Hope this helps...rather than clouds the issue B. Whitener ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 11:11:30 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Gordon Albright Subject: Re: getting mean Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Alan: I believe you hit upon the actual reason they seem more defensive now that they are established. They have something to protect. One thing struck me from your description.....you never mentioned smoke. Did you not use a little smoke when you work your hive? If not, try using about 3 good puffs into the entrance and lift the lid slightly and give one good puff under the lid. Wait about 30 seconds to a minute and you should notice a dramatic improvement. Good Luck. Gordon ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 13:12:46 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: George W Imirie Subject: Re: getting mean Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Alan: Is the Frat House still at 1010 N. Ann St? I was there getting my Ph.D. in physics until the Army wanted me in Oak Ridge for the Manhattan Project., and I had kept bees already ten years then. Do you like the heat and humidity, not to mention a dearth of food? Nectar flow except in the clover or alfalfa areas in the Dakota area is very small - your flow was in May and June. I advise beekeepers to take a months vacation to Europe in August when it is worse. The Buckfast is a fine bee, but maybe not quite as gentle as a well-bred Italian (there are a lot of lousy Italians also). Further, the stronger the population, the more defensive bees become - genetically very normal; but a weak colony makes very little honey. It is easy to tell that you know NOTHING about BEE BEHAVIOR when you mention " getting more angry because they have a home of value". That statement is a classic example of ANTHROPOMORPHISM, which means you will never be able to Upgrade from a beeHAVER To beeKEEPER until you learn NOT to think anthropomorphically. See a DICTIONARY. Times Change! Today, you have a computer, maybe a micro-wave oven, tubeless tires, some people have AIDS, your bees have mites (both tracheal and Varroa). Your Daddy or Grand Daddy did not have any of these things! YOU CANNOT KEEP BEES TODAY LIKE DADDY KEPT BEES! Most of the old time beekeepers no longer have bees because they refused to learn how to treat for mites, which has to be done EVERY SINGLE YEAR without fail or you have dead bees. I am being NASTY, BLUNT, DEMANDING, or EGOTISTICAL? No! Like Jack Webb on Dragnet said "Just tell the FACTS!' The mites were not in the US until 1984, and now they in 49 states (not Hawaii) and in every county. Hence, YOUR bees have mites, and they will probably be dead next year unless treated this August and October. Books written before about 1992 are almost useless now, just 6 years later because they do not cover Mites, viruses, Killer Bees, and Public Fear of bees brought about by too many killer bee movies. Further, more than half of all the bee colonies of 1984 are now dead today in the whole US, and less than half of the registered beekeepers that existed 15 years ago. You need an EXCELLENT book for beginners. The best ever written (I think) had its revised third edition JUST RELEASED 60 days ago; The Beekeepers Handbook by Dr. Diana Sammataro available from E mail: beeculture@airoot.com for $30. Diana got her Ph.D. working on tracheal mites. After you have matured a little, the best book to really learn beeKEEPING rather than just "having bees" is the 1992 Revised Edition of The Hive and Honeybee, written for 31 of America's TOP apiculturists, scientists and researchers, and the 103 page Chapter 8 by Dr. Norm Gary is the most important 100 pages you should ever read. Maybe I will finish my new book in the next year or so if I don't have another disabling stroke. I know I have been rough, but I am trying to make you heed good advice rather than just being a nice fellow. I will answer your questions if you desire, but I leave tomorrow for a week at E.A.S. meeting in PA. where I am giving workshops on Queen Management and Swarming, so I will be computer absent. By the way - keep that 1:1 feed on the bees until fall - don't let anybody talk you out of it. George Imirie - 65 years beekeeping in Maryland ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 15:59:03 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: getting mean In-Reply-To: <199807101424.HAA08774@mx1.thegrid.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:15 AM 7/10/98 -0400, you wrote: > I started my first hive in mid-late April (here in SE lower >Michigan). Buckfast. The bees were very gentle for the first couple of >months. I now have a busy colony with two deep brood chambers, one filled >medium super and another that they are taking their time drawing, for some >reason. I have been feeding them 1:1 syrup per just about everything I >read here (the assumption being that they will stop taking it when they >are happy with what's available elsewhere...). No, your bees will take sugar syrup as long as you provide and will in time consume 5,10 or even 20 gallons without reward to you unless they have a natural nectar flow to convert to honey. They will never change the sugar water to honey but will if given enough store it and mix it with any honey they do make but in the end it will be no more then super consecrated sugar syrup. It is true you can feed from day one to the end of time, but why have bees if you never intend to let them do their own thing? > Of late, however, they seem to have gotten mean. They are angry >when I gently replace the jar on the feeder; they buzz loudly and come Honey bees are protective of their hives and do not recognize any difference between friend or foe. >Might it be that they are generally angrier than they were because >they now have a real home with contents they wish to protect? I think you are right honey bees are protective but you must also consider their gender. The one's that do all the hard work including guarding the hive are all frustrated females and as all men know it could be the best day of your life but it will not necessary be the same for your female lifes partner. >Are Buckfast queens supposed to produce nastier offspring? I am not a Buckfast fan myself but I have tested them, (who would'nt if they are free), for a Texas breeder years ago who has cut a fat hog selling them since. I found they were indeed a tad more aggressive then the other dark bees available at the time and about the same as the Mongol Italian queens one sees now and then, but not the junk yard dog grade as could be found with one line of so called Carnolian's around at the time. >Are they feeling grumpy >because the flow is bad (I don't really think it is, but then again they >are taking lots of syrup)? A friend about three miles away with Italians >in their second year is doing fine, saw them last week and they were >gentle as could be, and productive. Bees respond to all kinds of stimulus when it comes to displaying aggressive behavior the major one being the change in atmospheric pressures from storm fronts moving about. In many areas beekeepers are able to predict tomorrows weather change by the behavior of their bees which is normally demonstrated a day or two before a visual change actually occurs. I am sure this is more a magnification of what is going on in the field as flowers not only can close up at night but stop and start producing nectar and/or pollen with the changes in atmospheric pressures and are very sensitive to this. >Do Buckfasts like to build burr comb? If there is a flow or you are feeding them any bees will build wax and use it to make brace and burr comb. The production of wax is involuntary during a nectar flow and if your hives were full of capped honey and had a 5 gallon can of b&b comb they would still make more wax and add it, sometimes over capped honey but more times then not between the frames and the cover. Sometimes they make wax faster then they can use and you will find the wax scales on the bottom board, not to worry as bees can pick up and reuse beeswax when they need it. Old timers used to add dry wax capping back to hives knowing they would use it, but I don't know of anyone doing that this day as wax is a valuable product. >Should I worry about the loss of their gentleness (and my innocence)? You know, >gotta have something to worry about. What me worry? No but you have graduated into the 2nd level of beekeeping. I would like to suggest that if you can each and every day light up your smoker and take your bee hive apart always looking out for the queen as if you know where she is you are less likely to accidentally crush her putting the combs in and out of the hive. After the first week you should try this with just a hat on to keep the bees out of your golden locks but with the veil at the ready and by this time the bees will know you and be easier to handle. You will find that by doing this you will develop the timing and eye coordination that will serve you well when you reach the advanced beekeeping level. When you can do this two days in a row without having both eyes swelled shut by bee stings you will be advanced to the 3rd level of beekeeping and ready for the advance instruction. ttul, the OLd Drone Bee keepers big, small, new or old are always welcome at: http://beenet.com Now a true interactive bee keepers site with a beekeepers survey... (c)Permission is given to copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 18:11:03 -0700 Reply-To: robert@objectdata.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert MacKimmie Subject: Recent package queen has stopped laying ... Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 4.2mach v148) I have a two month old package queen who was doing really well at building up the population. About a week ago, I noticed that the workers were balling the queen a little and I couldn't move them off of her. A check on the situation a few days later found here wandering around without great fanfare. Today I check and I find no new eggs for what seems like the past week. Can anyone provide insight to possible scenarios? I haven't supered up the hive because they still have a frame or two to draw out. Could they feel cramped? Thanks, robert@hophaus.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 23:05:51 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Teresa Garcma Subject: Re: getting mean MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Are you sure it is the same queen that is working in there? You might need to check. Tere ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 14:17:48 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: getting mean In-Reply-To: <199807110034.SAA28707@selway.umt.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Andy wrote: > >Bees respond to all kinds of stimulus when it comes to displaying >aggressive behavior the major one being the change in atmospheric pressures >from storm fronts moving about. In many areas beekeepers are able to >predict tomorrows weather change by the behavior of their bees Andy goes on to say that this may be a reflection of floral responses. Our electronic systems clearly demonstrate that bees know when storms are coming - rarely do they miss in their assessments/predictions. However, our systems just as clearly indicate that the bees are responding to factors other than simply changes in barometric pressure. We can find days when the pressure drops and the bees come home. But we find as many or more days when the pressure is bouncing around or going up and the bees are still racing home. So -- like many explanations of bee behavior, the old "atmospheric pressure" answer is not correct. Bees may take pressure into consideration, but other factors must be factored in by the bees. If you wish, start following the weather and our observation hive. Had a good illustration of a pressure drop, bees come home the other day - so if you find that one day, you could argue that point. But, look at lots of days and make up your own mind. Cheers Jerry Jerry J. Bromenshenk Research Professor The University of Montana-Missoula jjbmail@selway.umt.edu 406-243-5648 406-243-4184 http://www.umt.edu/biology/bees ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 21:21:33 -0400 Reply-To: mpalmer@together.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Palmer Organization: French Hill Apiaries Subject: Re: How do the professionals requeen when they don't have the time to find the old queen? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have 1,000+ colonies. I look for the old queen. It doesn't take that long. I like to requeen with nucs. Only trouble is the extra equipment it takes. So use the top brood box as the nuc. Remove the supers. Remove the top brood box. Put unfilled supers back on the colony. Shake the bees from the top brood box - either into the colony, or on the ground in front of it. Place an excluder on the colony, and the top brood box on it. Put the covers on. Next day, remove the excluder, and replace it with a solid inner cover or plywood or the like. Give the top brood box a caged queen. Have it's entrance be to the rear. In three to four weeks, you'll have a nice nuc for requeening the parent colony. It's where you want it, and field bees wont be lost. The parent colony will often store some honey in the supers, because you reduced the comb space available to them by removing the top brood box. They will also better utilize the bottom brood box. Did you ever notice how a colony that needs a new queen doesn't do much in the bottom of the brood nest? Lots of pollen and nectar. Scattered brood. This way the old queen has to use the combs in the bottom. To unite the two colonies, remove the nuc, remove the supers. Find the old queen and kill her. Place a sheet of newspaper on the bottom brood box, and the top brood box on the paper. No need for holes or slices in the paper. Shake or blow the bees out of the supers and put the supers back on the top brood box. Your colony is requeened. About finding the old queen. I use a shaker box ( empty hive body with excluder nailed on the bottom), if I can't find her on the first try. She's usually in the bottom brood box, and only occasionaly in the supers. Dale Q. Marmaduke wrote: > How do the professionals with 1,000+ hives requeen. They don't have the > time to look for the queens. What are the techniques of the > professionals? > > Dale Marmaduke > (jsut five hives and working for twenty) > dmarmad@iquest.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 17:03:27 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Fwd: Re: getting mean Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >At 02:17 PM 7/11/98 -0600, you wrote: >>>from storm fronts moving about. In many areas beekeepers are able to >>>predict tomorrows weather change by the behavior of their bees >>Andy goes on to say that this may be a reflection of floral responses. >>Our electronic systems clearly demonstrate that bees know when storms are Hi Jerry, Bee Keepers & Friends, I ain't got no systems other then the seat of my pants and the end of my noise. When I am working the bees bent over a hive and a bee comes out and lands tail up on the end of my noise everything else being equal I grab for a bee veil after pulling the stinger out of my noise. I don't need no electronic gismo's to tell me that I should have put my veil on before opening the hive. >>We can find days when the pressure drops and the bees come home. But we >>find as many or more days when the pressure is bouncing around or going up >>and the bees are still racing home. So -- like many explanations of bee >>behavior, the old "atmospheric pressure" answer is not correct. Bees may >>take pressure into consideration, but other factors must be factored in by >>the bees. Yes for sure this is a complicated subject and many factors in your experience are not clearly defined and could be area specific and do involve more then one science and need more study including replication at other sites and locations using many different flavors of bees and plants and even then it my be there is an exception that explains what other beekeepers have seen in their bees...kinda cheeky aren't I. I can assure all that I do not expect to be able to explain all that I have felt or seen in my bee yards over the years but at the same time I can say for a fact that at least on the coast of Monterey County California many beekeepers over a extended period of time, 70+ years, in the winter and spring, have been able to predict with an great accuracy that is as good or better then the information provided by the weather bureau, the changing of the weather before it happens by the temperament of their bees. In this area these are real life, real time, facts, if not good science that have not been explained by any science other the changes expressed by the flowering plants that grow at the time of year in these locations the observations were made that seem to correspond with early barometric pressure changes that come before any weather front moves in. It does not have to follow that these reports are mistaken or false because the same changes do no cause the same response in bees in any other area and only makes it of less value for the average beekeeper who makes no claim to being a scientist to make personal observations of his bees or report them to others and that why I am writing this reply to my friend Jerry the bee scientist and you all. It is well enough to announce that this is not that fact, which may be, but that does little to explain what many others have experienced. It would be better to say what caused what has been experienced as above and then say it was caused by this or that and not the pressure changes. I am not in any way challenging what Jerry reports as scientific fact in his area or areas of study that do not include my own areas and I would say maybe much more is to bee learned. At the same time the keeping of the same bees on the Mexican boarder area of south western Arizona would not be define by the bees temperament in a change of the weather because there is NO time that the bees would not come out and sting my rear end and noise as I struggle to put my veil on even if I had old truck tires burning in my smoker. Both of these experiences are verifiable and repeatable at these locations so they could be considered more then just one old beekeeper's observation and its a little premature to say these observations are correct or not correct without walking in the shoes of those with the experience and the fat lips. >>If you wish, start following the weather and our observation hive. Had a >>good illustration of a pressure drop, bees come home the other day - so if >>you find that one day, you could argue that point. But, look at lots of >>days and make up your own mind. I don't know nothing but I would suggest any environmental measurement of bee flight would require some additional information I have not found on your sight such as light polarization and intensity measurements which may explain why your bees behavior is different from those in other places as measured by my noise and the seat of my pants. From working bees in the higher elevations of Colorado I did see some flight behavioral differences not explained by experiences with bees in sea level California or the Sonora desert of SW Arizona beekeeping. I also had some performance denigration myself for the first day or so as this sea level beekeeper gave up his sea legs for mountain goat one's. In any case my observations are just that and only good for the area and time I made then and were not intended to be hard and fast rules of science as IMHO the first rule of bee science is that there will be an exception to all rules so I don't report anymore then observations which may or may not be the same in any other bees or bee yards. The only hard and fast Rule that follows beekeepers like a dark cloud is that if there is any bee disease, pest, or predator that your bees don't have just wait awhile and you will. ttul, Andy- http://beenet.com (c)Permission is given to copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 12:20:34 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: query for south african beekeepers:cape bees,small hive beet Comments: To: tomas mozer In-Reply-To: <19980702.141524.4535.2.tomasmozer@juno.com> Hi Tomas Thanks for the great post - I will answer as best I can. Sorry to answer so late - I have been in Durban!! (coincidence??) > greetings garth et al.! have some questions you all may be able to > answer... > can anyone update me on the "capensis syndrome"? is this like the > equivalent of > "africanization" in the americas? how far has it spread: in particular, > has it reached > durban? does anybody keep european bees in the affected areas? are there Yes, the capensis syndrome is basically a sundrome wherebye the cape bee can replicate through it's workers alone. I recently asked an expert as to whether a cape queen which is unfertilised can lay eggs which develop into workers and the answer was a tentative yes. This means that one cape bee can in theory infect an area in time, as it's ovaries will not be supressed by an other race of queen, hence if it ends up in another race's hive, it will lay a few eggs that will develop into pure capensis workers, which will in turn either infect other hives, or , may just become laying workers in that hive themselves. When it becomes time to raise a new queen, it will often be raised of a cape laying worker egg. - A technical problem. I believe the cape bee will have made it to Durban, even if not officially, as I know a beekeeper here who used to move his bees (800 colonies) up to the Durban area every year for the eucalyptus flow until this was banned. Keeping european bees in infected areas - it is doubtful whether in any region of africa keeping european bees is wise as they are too timid to ward of robbers, both animal, human and other bees. I have heard of beekeepers keeping italians in both the cape and the johannesburg regions, but I think they delude themselves. I know of an elderly beekeeper here who for many years kept italians that he payed a hig price for. One year he marked his queens and found that after a month they had been superseded 100% of the time. In my region I believe, seeing as all the natural colonies are capensis, a european queen would stand no chance. > any > known correlations between bee types and aethina tumida > infestation/damage? I am not sure, but have heard once again that the imported races are more susceptible to most diseases than the locals - that includes the foul broods which are hardly ever found here. I would personally geuss that this resistance is probably largely due to the fact that capensis is prone to drifting and that the hive beetles would for tens of thousands of years have transported pathogens from hive to hive leading to selection for resistance to both the pathogens and the beetles. > one reason for my curiosity is a recent interception/extermination of a > feral hive in a > florida(usa) seaport on a barge loaded in durban which arrived here with > about 100 lbs.of bees/comb (confirmed african by morphometrics) after a > month at sea with at least one stopover (in venezuela)...certainly a > scenario suggestive of a possible means of introduction of more than one > already confirmed exotic to these shores; reminds me of the supposed old > chinese curse about living in interesting times, with a global village > adaptation about living in shifting paradigms... Yes, you see this would be a problem if there was even the smallest contingent of capensis on baord, as capensis does not hang around a dead colony for long. When I move hives I am alwasy intrigued by the fact that all the bees that return in the morning to find the hive gone make three or four passes through where the hive was and then fly away - often to a nearby hive. Another thing to consider here is that a swarm which set up in Durban harbour would have bee a confused and silly swarm as there is very little forage anywhere nearby, so maybe it will be a a venezualean swarm - but then again AHB have not made it there so it is probably of african origin. Another factor to consider is that a 100pound colony is quite a large one. Scutellata build up much faster than capensis. However a big colony of scutellata are more likely to have made themselves unpopular that the more docile capensis. Scutellata however are better adapted to surviving under long periods of dearth, such as would be expected at sea. If however the barge was carrying sugar, which is likely if it was from durban, then that would not have been a problem. If there are any of the bees left, the relevant authorities should maybe consider contacting a bee geneticist, such as Peter Neuman/ Robin Moritz with experience in working with capensis and scutellata. (I can supply contact e-mails for P.N.) Keep well and thanks for the interesting questions. Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis Eastern Cape Prov. South Africa Time = Honey After careful consideration, I have decided that if I am ever a V.I.P the I. may not stand for important. (rather influential, ignorant, idiotic, intelectual, illadvised etc) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 17:13:49 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Al Needham Subject: Re: South African Beetle Garth: I do not believe that I have seen any comments from you in regard to this South African Beetle that is showing up in Florida USA that seems to be a new threat to beekeepers. What do you know about this Beetle? Does it cause you any problems, and if so, what do you do about the little devil ? Thanks, Al <"Mailto: awneedham@juno.com" > Scituate,Massachusetts,USA The Beehive-Educational Honey Bee Site Visit The Beehive Book Shoppe http://www.xensei.com/users/alwine _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 08:13:01 -0600 Reply-To: Barry@Birkey.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Organization: BIRKEY.COM Subject: Re: getting mean MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alan Pagliere wrote: > I started my first hive in mid-late April (here in SE lower > Michigan). Buckfast. The bees were very gentle for the first couple of > months. I now have a busy colony with two deep brood chambers, one filled > > Of late, however, they seem to have gotten mean. They are angry > when I gently replace the jar on the feeder; they buzz loudly and come > > I haven't checked the brood area in a while. I'm kind of afraid to Hi Alan - Well, so far no one has said anything to you about the fact that you haven't checked the brood for a while. My experience has been that just because you see bees working the super doesn't mean that all is well below. I just checked on two hives that I have at one site where the bees were working hard filling up the supers but they were also quite mean. Normally I don't touch the brood chambers once the supers are on but because I'm helping another at his first year keeping bees, I decided to tear down to the deeps. After seeing a queen laying on the ground in front of one hive, I suspected something was up. Sure enough, queens were emerging from cells as I spotted several in the hive. Both hives had mature queen cells throughout. I also spotted a small swarm in a tree near by. You may no longer have that Buckfast queen. Only way to know for sure is to look in the deeps. Queen less hives tend to get aggressive or better yet, defensive from my experience. I tried Buckfast queens several years ago only to have them all superseded within a couple of months. Several on this list have made comments about Buckfast queens being a little harder to get acceptance and different ways to introduce them to a hive with better success. A lot of reasons can be given as to why a hive is mean but unless you tear into the hive and look to rule certain things out, they will still all be possibilities. Regards, -Barry -- Barry Birkey Illinois, USA -------------------------------- 630.293.1181 ph > 630.293.3613 fx barry@birkey.com > http://www.birkey.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 13:35:42 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tim Channell Subject: Beekeeping museum Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Is there a beekeeping museum in North Carolina? Thanks. Tim Channell El Paso, Texas ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 18:53:04 -0600 Reply-To: Barry@Birkey.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Organization: BIRKEY.COM Subject: wax basket MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Howdy - I was just sitting out on the back porch watching some bees work a couple of frames that had been extracted yesterday where I cut the comb out to replace it and set them out to have the honey cleaned off before I work with them. I noticed one bee that had what looked like a whitish pollen basket on each leg. As I got a closer look, it looked more like bits of wax than pollen. I know bees will chew wax and move it around in the hive but this is the first time I've seen it loaded up on the basket. I'm wondering if anyone can confirm what I just saw as being that. Regards. -Barry -- Barry Birkey Illinois, USA -------------------------------- 630.293.1181 ph > 630.293.3613 fx barry@birkey.com > http://www.birkey.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 09:00:16 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jon Subject: Is a queen that starts to lay 20 days after emerging a bad queen? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I frequently have read that a queen that starts to lay later than 15 days after emerging is a bad queen, is that true?. I have verified a lot of times that queens which started to lay 30 days after emerging were so good or better than 15 day's queens. So, what is true and false in this matter?. Thanks in advance. Jon ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 07:11:05 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: James Ralston Subject: slatted racks and hive staples... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm curious what other beekeepers would have done in this particular situation... I obtained my hive as a nuc from a local beekeeper. Because I physically brought my hive body to him (in the back of my car) to transfer the nuc, I had my deep attached to the bottom board with hive staples. This made installing a slatted rack a bit more interesting, though. If I'd been thinking ahead when I hammered the staples, I would've left a little space (i.e., not pounded them in quite the whole way) so that they could be easily pried off without having to move the hive. But I wasn't thinking ahead, so I couldn't get enough leverage to slide something under the staples to pry them off without doing something like tilting the hive on its side, which I did *not* want to do. What I wound up doing was constructing another hive (bottom board, slatted rack, and super), and playing switcheroo with the hives (moving the old hive, placing the new hive where the old one was, and transferring all ten frames from the old hive into the new one). I conducted quick looks for the queen while transferring the frames, but I didn't see her. (I didn't see her in the old brood box after I transferred all 10 frames, either, so I feel fairly confident she was just hiding out on one of the frames, and did indeed make it into the new hive body.) So, my question is: can anyone suggest a better way I might've handled this situation? My first error was probably making the staples too difficult to remove, but since I couldn't remove them in-place, the only way I could see to put in the slatted rack was to make another hive and transfer the frames. Was there something else I could've done, but didn't see? Thanks, James ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 08:10:19 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: Re: slatted racks and hive staples... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Can't beat then ratcheting straps in my opinion. Use two if you are the nervous type with the mechanism on the side of the hives not the top. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 08:05:51 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Eric Abell Subject: hives - on the body MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A young man working for me developed hives (an itchy condition covering much of his body). When his doctor found that he was working with bees he named this as the cause. It may well be but I have never heard of this happening. Breathing problems - OK but never hives. Has anyone else run into this? -- Eric Abell Box 87 Gibbons, AB T0A 1N0 Canada Ph/fax (403) 998 3143 eabell@compusmart.ab.ca ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 09:51:46 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Teresa Garcma Subject: Re: Is a queen that starts to lay 20 days after emerging a bad queen? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jon, > I have verified that queens which started to lay 30 days > after emerging were so good or better than 15 day's queens. A queen starts laying a few days after her mating flight, so if for any=20 reason she hasn=B4t gone mating (bad weather conditions, for example) or=20 if she didn=B4t find drones in her first fly, then she will mate older,=20 and will start laying older, but she can be as good as a younger queen=20 (but of course, there are limits to this). Tere ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 07:49:01 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: Is a queen that starts to lay 20 days after emerging a bad queen? In-Reply-To: <199807131132.EAA14106@mx1.thegrid.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:00 AM 7/13/98 +0200, you wrote: >I frequently have read that a queen that starts to lay later than 15 days >after emerging is a bad queen, is that true?. >I have verified a lot of times that queens which started to lay 30 days >after emerging were so good or better than 15 day's queens. So, what is true >and false in this matter?. In commercial queen rearing a good bee breeder will kill queens that do not lay within a day or two of their normal time and never would ship a queen that goes 30 days. The reason for this is more time then not caused by poor mating weather and these queens seldom are fully charged with sperm and are lay for only a few days, weeks, and then are replaced by the bees. Queens that go up to 30 days are more times then not "nature" queens that are not from the queen cells introduced by the breeder. As for being true or false it all depends on what side of the bread is buttered. If your business is producing quality queens then its true. If you on the other side have lots of time to watch each hive and there no other reason to replace the queen and she is doing a good job today then its OK to keep her and its false. At one time I even had some free bee help that would help me replace queens for the queens that I would normally pinch off. It is also true that there is always some risk that the queen you replace an old queen with will not be as good as the one you are replacing. ttul, the OLd Drone http://beenet.com (c)Permission is given to copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 08:43:16 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Dr. Douglas Westphal" Subject: Re: Is a queen that starts to lay 20 days after emerging a bad queen? The references I have read regarding the number of days to laying were about commercial queen breeders. Maybe they just don't have the time to wait another week and want to get on with it so they cut off at 14 days. The 14-day cutoff may be economically based. After two weeks of waiting for my swarm-cell queens to lay, I figured they weren't going to lay, or be poor queens, so I ordered queens for those hives. By the time the new queens arrived, the natural ones had started laying, right at 21 days. (I made splits with the commercial queens.) So far the 21-day queens are doing fine. One is in my strongest hive (out of 8). The other was in my observation hive, which got too strong (even after removing frames of brood) and recently has been moved to a hive body where they are expanding quickly. As a beekeeper, maybe the 14-day cutoff is for insurance and profit: If she doesn't end up laying, then you have a hive that hasn't had a laying queen for the 16 days it took for her to emerge plus the 21 days you waited for her to lay. Will this hive be declining by the time you do get a good queen in it? How well does this kind of hive (35 days without a queen) accept a new queen? How much honey have they put up while without a queen? If I were in it for the money I'd have bought queens from the start. As a hobbyist, I have the time and interest for waiting and watching. Doug Monterey, CA ps. The California queen breeders said this was a terrible year due to the rain rain rain. My late-laying queens might have been due to late mating, rather than due to poor genetic quality. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 10:55:29 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Alan Pagliere Subject: Re: getting mean MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I have received many responses both on and off list and want to thank everyone. Here's a summary and the latest. Several people told me to stop feeding the bees. Most people suggested I get in that hive and see if the queen has been superceded. Some said that Buckfast queens get superceded from time to time even soon after an introduction. There was talk about weather. Well, I went into the hive yesterday with a friend. (Just for information's sake the weather has been, was, and continues to be perfect. High pressure, sunny, no wind to speak of, not at all humid, mid 80s.) The top shallow super's foundations are still undrawn, the second one down is quite full, mostly capped. Several responders mention of course, that will all the feeding I have been doing (in my perhaps naive attempt to help them draw comb), I probably have a super filled with concentrated sugar syrup rather than real honey. In any case, my friend (who is an experienced beekeeper, although a much more hands-off kind of beekeeper) gave them all a very good bit of smoke. Perhaps that was one of my mistakes, although I do remember several list folk here saying that you should give them just a bit, never too much. I think I was being too kind to them, not wanting to "bother" them too, too much. Well, now the real point. We found the old queen. There she was, blue dot and all. No queen cells anywhere, although there was a good bit of burr comb (one responder said that his Buckfasts always seem to build a lot of brace comb and are just good comb builders in general). There was a good bit of honey in the outer frames and the tops of the inner frames of the top brood chamber (I have two deeps for brood). There was capped brood here and there (some small amount of it drone), lots of pollen. I didn't see what I would have expected to be the wonderful pattern of brood that all the books say is optimal. Several people have said that I should think about re-queening. That of course was before I knew that there has in fact been no supercedure. Then again, perhaps I should requeen because of their attitude, or because she is not working as well as she might. I guess the question becomes "when?" Now, later nearing the fall? Finally, I am unsure as to why they refuse to draw the foundation in the top super? Plenty of room up there, and yet there is more honey than I would expect (given my lack of experience) in the top of the brood area, I thought I remember reading here that the bees will move the honey up to make more room for the queen to lay. Have they given up on her? If so, why are there no queen cells? I wanted to catch everyone up on the situation. I thought the fact that I found the queen would at least put to rest the possibility of supercedure many were suspecting as the cause for the attitude change. I have, however, seem to have wound up bothering you all with more questions. As many before me here have said, I find this list to be a wealth of information, knowledge and experience. So, once again, I thank you all. ------------------------------------------ | Alan Pagliere | | Ann Arbor, MI | | 734-647-8000 | | pagliere@umich.edu | | http://www.umich.edu/~pagliere/ | |------------------------------------------| ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 09:58:45 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: getting mean In-Reply-To: <199807121351.HAA20820@selway.umt.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 05:03 PM 7/11/1998 -0700, Andy wrote: >I ain't got no systems other then the seat of my pants and the end of my >noise. When I am working the bees bent over a hive and a bee comes out and >lands tail up on the end of my noise Glad to see Andy rise to the bait. Yes, you don't need fancy electronics to learn a lot about bees. The electronics simply allow us to refine some of these observations. And no, I don't have the answers. At this point, I simply know that saying that the bees rush home due to changes in barometric pressure is an overly simplistic assumption that doesn't hold up when you can see the actual responses of bees correlated with weather. >I don't know nothing but I would suggest any environmental measurement of >bee flight would require some additional information I have not found on >your sight Actually, light is measured. We do not have an Alpha system on the observation hive, but do have an Alpha System on our 28 research hives. Our weather station doesn't include light intensity. The Alpha system covers this information plus hive temperatures, weight changes, RH, etc. One of these days, we will add an Alpha system to our observation hive. And yes Andy, we do have electronic hives at different elevations and in different parts of the country. We don't post all of this to the web - we doubt that most beekeepers want to look at hundreds of Mb of data per day. We can make this information available to those who want to work with it. Jerry Jerry J. Bromenshenk, Ph.D. Director, DOE/EPSCoR & Montana Organization for Research in Energy The University of Montana-Missoula Missoula, MT 59812-1002 E-Mail: jjbmail@selway.umt.edu Tel: 406-243-5648 Fax: 406-243-4184 http://www.umt.edu/biology/more http://www.umt.edu/biology/bees ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 13:05:18 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: Drawing comb (was: getting mean) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > The top shallow super's foundations are still undrawn, the second >one down is quite full, mostly capped. > Finally, I am unsure as to why they refuse to draw the foundation >in the top super? Plenty of room up there If I read this correctly, you have a full super of honey, and then a super of foundation above, which is empty. I always put either empty comb, or foundation BELOW a full super. The full one then tends to act as bait. Also, the full super is likely full of bees and so the bees draw out the foundation much faster. Ian Watson realtor@niagara.com real estate agent gardener baritone beekeeper---> 14 colonies ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 13:36:57 -0500 Reply-To: lkrengel@mc.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Larry Krengel Subject: Re: Help! Bear in Apiary! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Emily - I keep bees in an area of northern Wisconsin that has very aggressive ants. For a number of years I put my hives on tables standing in buckets of old oil. It worked pretty good. Last year a black bear found my hives. I saved what I could. He returned three times ultimately leaving everything in shambles. At the end of the summer, I went to the local saw mill and bought enough rough sawn wood to build a bee house that could house 7 or 8 hives. (cost = about $150 - not much more than setting up a new hive from scratch) No more bear problems! The house works great. There is still a lot of bear sign, but none has touched the bee house. Yet, as you say, if it is not one thing it is another. The ants are taking over the hives. It is amazing to watch an ant on the landing board literally attack a bee that is 20 times his size and the two of them wrestle and fall to the ground where a dozen more ants join the fight. Perhaps I will put the bee house on stilts and stand them in buckets of oil. Well, FYI a bee house succeeded in keeping bears out of my hives. For a small-time beekeeper, like me, this is a reasonable solution. Larry Krengel Hives in Athelstane, Wisconsin USA Excerpts from BEE-L wrote: > From: "Emily M. Pruyn" > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > > I have two new hives in my back yard just outside of Boston Ma; and > this > morning at 6am I see a black bear sitting with my birdfeeder between > his > legs, scooping sunflower seeds intohis mouth!! > > Emily ---thinking if it ain't one thing, it's another! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 11:41:28 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: hives - on the body In-Reply-To: <199807131542.IAA25182@mx1.thegrid.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:05 AM 7/13/98 -0700, you wrote: >A young man working for me developed hives (an itchy condition covering >much of his body). When his doctor found that he was working with bees >he named this as the cause. It may well be but I have never heard of >this happening. Breathing problems - OK but never hives. >Has anyone else run into this? Yes....don't know how common it is but some people do develop hives when stung by bees. I never got the hives but I did have itchy skin after working a season in the bees and getting my share of stings. It was really bad when I would go in swimming after a hard hot days work and the palms of my hands and soles of my feed would itch like crazy. This condition lasted several years but in later years it no longer seems to be a problem, but then I don't swim as much as I once did. I hope your helper gets over the hives I am sure there are good remedy's that would help and he should ask his doctor. It is interesting that people who are sensitive to bees do not have to get stung to have an adverse reaction as it is said its the proteins of the bee that many are bothered by. It does work both way as some good relief has been shown by people suffering with different conditions after only working around the bees. My dad suffered from the Gout and one winter helped in the honey barn cleaning up bee equipment and his Gout disappeared and never returned without a bee sting. Good Luck, ttul, the OLd Drone http://beenet.com/bnews.htm (c)Permission is given to copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 18:47:26 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Dave D. Cawley" Subject: Re: hives - on the body MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > At 08:05 AM 7/13/98 -0700, you wrote: > >A young man working for me developed hives (an itchy condition covering > >much of his body). When his doctor found that he was working with bees > >he named this as the cause. It may well be but I have never heard of > >this happening. Breathing problems - OK but never hives. > > >Has anyone else run into this? Could be he's allergic to pollen. Certain times of year my nose drips more than my sweaty forehead...Gross, but it happens. *************************************************************** Dave D. Cawley | Where a social revolution is pending and, The Internet Cafe | for whatever reason, is not accomplished, Scranton, PA | reaction is the alternative. (717) 344-1969 | dave@scranton.com | -Daniel De Leon *************************************************************** URL => http://www.scranton.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 15:51:13 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: getting mean Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:58 AM 7/13/98 -0600, you wrote: >At 05:03 PM 7/11/1998 -0700, Andy wrote: >And no, I don't have the answers. At this point, I simply know that saying >that the bees rush home due to changes in barometric pressure is an overly >simplistic assumption that doesn't hold up when you can see the actual >responses of bees correlated with weather. Hay Guys, Gals, and bee keepers too, The point is I never said that the bees rush home or do I know of any beekeeper who has ever said to me or that I even overheard anyone saying the "bees rush home because of any barometric change". I have seen bees do many things but never seen them rush home because of any barometric change. If that was true the coast would be unfit for bees as almost every day there are differences between AM and PM barometric reading. What I am saying is that beekeepers including myself who have a great deal of hands on experience working their bees report that in their experience they can tell the beautiful day we are enjoying one day is going to change the next because of the aggressive behavior of their bees. This is a "fact" it may not be the same everyplace, of that I am sure, but its unfair and not scientific to flatly say this is wrong because anyone else has observed something different. I have no argument that what Jerry is doing, in fact I think it is the greatest, and doing it in as many places and with as much technical equipment may make it the fact for the place, time, and conditions it was done but it is wrong to say that I or any beekeeper who reports what we have observed is not the way we observed it, without walking in our shoes, which many may have a lot of catching up if they want to do that as many of these coastal bee location are being black toped and roofed over. >Our weather station doesn't include light intensity. The Alpha system >covers this information plus hive temperatures, weight changes, RH, etc. >One of these days, we will add an Alpha system to our observation hive. >And yes Andy, we do have electronic hives at different elevations and in >different parts of the country. We don't post all of this to the web - we >doubt that most beekeepers want to look at hundreds of Mb of data per day. >We can make this information available to those who want to work with it. There is nothing wrong with any of this and I support your good work and you for sure you are developing and should have some interesting and useful data that may take years of careful study to understand....But I wonder if then we will know anything different other then what I know from the use of my rear end and noise. It won't change anything, a day before a weather change on the coast of central California beekeepers will know because they are experiencing a behavioral change in their bees. I suspect that beekeepers who are young now will someday be old and they also will be using their own rear ends and noises to do the same thing. In any case I surrender, you are right, what I observed was only an aberration and I misunderstood it. Oh, BTW my queen nucs are really aggressive today and.......will be tomorrow as they don't have laying queens, and I can prove it to anybody that wants a few stings. But then its 100+ degrees in the shade and the ants are bothering them and they are all hanging out on the front of their nuc boxes so my proof is a little weak. Anyway want to talk about how bees react during earthquakes as I also have first hand observations on that having kept bees at one time on a very active fault...that was active enough to find the beehives not in the same neat lines a week or two after unloading them because of the almost daily ground movement. ttul, the OLd Drone The bee keeping news server was down for about 8 hrs but is back in service and much news is coming in, check it out at: http://beenet.com/bnews.htm ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 19:03:38 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Dave D. Cawley" Subject: Re: slatted racks and hive staples... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 13 Jul 1998, James Ralston wrote: > > So, my question is: can anyone suggest a better way I might've handled > this situation? My first error was probably making the staples too > difficult to remove, but since I couldn't remove them in-place, the > only way I could see to put in the slatted rack was to make another > hive and transfer the frames. Was there something else I could've > done, but didn't see? Don't drink so much! 8-} But seriously, I use your run of the hardware store wire staples that I leave about 1/4 inch out. This way I can just stick a screwdriver into and pry out. About four works well enough for transporting in car/truck. *************************************************************** Dave D. Cawley | Where a social revolution is pending and, The Internet Cafe | for whatever reason, is not accomplished, Scranton, PA | reaction is the alternative. (717) 344-1969 | dave@scranton.com | -Daniel De Leon *************************************************************** URL => http://www.scranton.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 17:52:24 -0700 Reply-To: jcbach@yvn.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: JamesCBach Subject: Hives on the body & drawing comb MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Eric Abell asks if anyone has heard of someone developing hives after working bees. He does not say whether the person was stung or how he was involved with the bees, i.e. what type of work did he do. I recall at least two persons developing hives and itching on the extremities and local swelling after being stung once. After several stings the hives spread to other parts of the body - chest, back and under the arms. Then breathing impacts started. They were desensitized and quit working around bees. One person was also subsequently allergic to mosquito bites and reacted the same as though stung by bees. Three years later one person would have a sinus condition within minutes of being exposed to a beekeepers coveralls that had been used in the field for several days. Three years later he was stung and had no reaction at all. But one must also consider other things such as a change in diet, pollen, or mold allergies. Ian Watson wonders why bees won't draw comb in the top super. I presume he is describing a two story deep hive with two shallow supers. There may be several causes: a) the size of the colony - they will draw comb in the area covered by the bee cluster somewhat depending on temperature and nectar flow intensity, b) the nectar flow is slow - so they want to put it into the top of the brood nest, c) often, but not always, bees hesitate to draw a super of foundation unless it is baited in the center with two or three drawn comb or combs with honey, d) the bees won't draw comb above the area influenced by sufficient quantities of queen pheromone. In colonies where the queen is not very attractive to the bees (low pheromone production) the bees will store nectar in the brood nest resulting in what is called a plugged brood nest. These colonies are also reluctant to draw comb above the first super. That is why some beekeepers will top super some hives and bottom super others. The real solution is to improve queen quality. James C. Bach jbach@agr.wa.gov jcbach@yvn.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 08:51:39 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Making Wax Foundation Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi All I am interested in obtaining information on equipment available for making home made wax foundation. Thanks for any help. Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland e mail cssl@iol.ie Tel + 353 1 289 5269 Fax + 353 1 289 9940 Latitude 53 Degrees North Longitude 6 Degrees West ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 16:29:43 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: williams Subject: Re: hives - on the body MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi ERIC yes I got the hives after getting stung by only 2 bees. Head and feet itched and I got red spots over about 1/2 of my body. I did not have any problem breathing. Went to doctor that had been a bee keeper and he didn't think much about it. He didn't offer any advice on it. This happened this spring and I have been handling bees for the past 5 years and stung many times before. I have been more careful this summer and have not been stung. I dont know what will happen next time. (:- Have a nice day. John Williams :-) ---------- > From: Eric Abell > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: hives - on the body > Date: Monday, July 13, 1998 10:05 AM > > A young man working for me developed hives (an itchy condition covering > much of his body). When his doctor found that he was working with bees > he named this as the cause. It may well be but I have never heard of > this happening. Breathing problems - OK but never hives. > > Has anyone else run into this? > > > > -- > Eric Abell > Box 87 > Gibbons, AB T0A 1N0 Canada > Ph/fax (403) 998 3143 > eabell@compusmart.ab.ca ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 08:38:56 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: tomas mozer Subject: Re: query for south african beekeepers:cape bees,small hive beet Comments: To: g95c6713@warthog.ru.ac.za Comments: cc: gwnjbh@alltel.net thanks for your detailed response! just as a postscript/update: the barge from south africa was carrying a large crane or other heavy machinery in which the hive had situated itself out of sight and reach (they had to tent the entire thing to exterminate); venezuela does have africanized bees, and coincidentally two weeks later an african bee find at another florida port which had been loaded at the port of la guaira (where the durban barge had also stopped) consisted of apparent swarm remnants (queenless) whose individuals sampled had a remarkable similarity to the original find (queenright)...these bees had an extra forewing flap rarely seen or previously reported, as well as a unique marking on the thorax (dorsal posterior mesothorax). we are awaiting further id test results, including possible dna analysis...will bee in touch when we know more! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 06:15:29 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: rmedders Subject: Re: Making Wax Foundation Hi everyone, >I am interested in obtaining information on equipment available for making >home made wax foundation. In reference to the above question I found this site, I hope it is helpful. > http://www.swienty.dk/foundations.html Kind Regards, Sherry Medders beekeeping.guide@miningco.com http://beekeeping.miningco.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 08:06:18 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: My apologies to Andy Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Andy, you mistake me. I thought you could take a bit of good natured ribbing. I didn't think/mean to be questioning your overall bee knowledge, which is impressive. You made some interesting points about possible bee and plants responses to atmospheric pressure. Sorry if I overstepped and changed your words on you to barometric pressure. Neither of us has all the answers, we do the best we can. Cheers Jerry ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 07:55:24 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: My apologies to Andy In-Reply-To: <199807141429.HAA17577@mx1.thegrid.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:06 AM 7/14/98 -0600, you wrote: >Andy, you mistake me. I thought you could take a bit of good natured >ribbing. I can, I can, no need to apologize I can take it, baaaaaaa boohoo who, >I didn't think/mean to be questioning your overall bee knowledge, which is >impressive. You made some interesting points about possible bee and plants >responses to atmospheric pressure. Thanks for the kind words, its not for me, I can give so I can take and I try to make it buck clear that what I hive to say is only my opinion based on my observations. I also try to make it clear that with honeybees we don't all see it the same way even when both looking at it. Maybe my cup is half empty and others find their's half full. I still got all my marbles but keep them in two bags just in case I forget ware I put them. >Sorry if I overstepped and changed your words on you to barometric pressure. >Neither of us has all the answers, we do the best we can. I prefer to bee leave you red my words rong. Its easy to do, at least for me, I do it all the time and have to refer back to the original post to see how far off the path I have strayed. Sometimes I do trash (don't send) a post, mostly I don't, so it puts me in a position of answering a question such as providing the northern path to the pacific coast beach. The straight line maybe the fastest but sometimes much is missed by using it. IMHO ttul, Andy- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 08:07:32 -0700 Reply-To: robert@objectdata.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert MacKimmie Subject: Re: hives in the brain - hives on the body ... Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 4.2mach v148) Since no one has mentioned it ... I am new to beekeeping this year and seem to be working agressively (on and off) towards fulfilling my required 200+ stings a year to gain a lessened impact from stings.I heard that this takes approximately two years. But I have one helpful personal suggestion (Benedryl or generic equivalent Diphenhydramine) and an associates vital experience of having on hand and needing! to administer Epinephrine Auto-Injectors (EpiEZpens). Earlier this year, when getting stung, especially more than once (four times on one hand, for instance) the hand would swell. I was instructed that Benedryl or the equivalent would reduce the swelling and itching and indeed it does. Someone else in our Bee Association ended up having an Anaphylatic allergic reaction to being stung and was literally saved by a calm, well-thinking and well-prepared beekeeper who carries two EpiEZpens. She needed both shots and narrowly survived. (Have EPINEPHRINE AUTO-INJECTOR pens with you at all times for general public who might be affected.) Back to more modest swelling: I was stung three times on one hand over a weekend. Swelled slightly - Benedryl - no problem. The following Wednesday, I was lightly stung on the tip of the middle finger of the same hand. I was pleased that the reaction was mild and I assumed that I was lessening my reaction to stings. At 2:30 am I awoke feeling that I had mosquito bites all over, being very itchy. When I looked in the mirror, I had hives distributed over half of my body (patchwork). Benedryl again saved the day (actually night) by allowing the swelling to go down, the itching to reduce and sleep to be regained. I have been stung again but have not had as severe a reaction. I haven't been stung multiple times again in one area, nor had a follow up sting in near-time proximity. I quickly started working again without gloves, but only when I have the time and hive temperament to have everything remain calm. When working with someone on pulling honey, I am not so brave and put on gloves. My point in all this -- reactions in newbies vary and it takes a while (and stings) to build an immunity. In the meantime, Benedryl helps if one is affected modestly by stings and everyone should be responsible beekeepers and always carry Epinephrine Injector Pens in case someone else gets stung and has an Anaphylatic reaction. It's not fun to watch people die from a bee sting. Robert MacKimmie San Francisco robert@objectdata.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 17:57:48 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: Getting mean Hi All I have seen a few mentions about this topic on the list now by Alan, Andy and Barry. Bees in my area appear to occasionally get very grumpy on very hot humid days. I personally believe this to be due to the 'solubility' of the pheremones in the air. Under hot humid conditions such as those before the fabled african thunderstorms that yearly cause people to get theirselves stung onto the medical aid halls of fame (eg all those people that think they are allergic because they felt a bit sick after being stung 400 times for walking near some hives) it can be theorised that the airs ability to carry pheremone will not be as good, hence more of it is likey to condense onto the chemoreceptors on the bees antenae and they will get cross more easily. Conversely, I have found that on just such days, if one is very sneaky with the smoke, and makes sure to smoke all hives in the apiary, not just the one you are working on with white smoke, then it is possible to work it just as any other day. Many times I have found when my hive I was working on was being mean, it was actually the neighbours. Keep well GArth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis Eastern Cape Prov. South Africa Time = Honey After careful consideration, I have decided that if I am ever a V.I.P the I. may not stand for important. (rather influential, ignorant, idiotic, intelectual, illadvised etc) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 18:53:40 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: World Sugar News Hi All I recently visited the South African Sugar Association and got some figures on the world sugar trends. Apparently we as they fourth largest producer are going to produce our biggest crop ever, meaning that a lot is going to be exported. Likewise, in the face of ever cheaper petroleum products Brazilians are buying petrol/gasoline powered cars and hence a lot of brazilian sugar that used to be used for ethanol production to run ethanol powered cars is no longer needed and will be dumped on the open market. Brazil is the worlds largest producer. I do not know how the sugar beet yield will be from the US and europe this year. Apparently China needs to import a bit. Anyhow, the result it that the sugar price will be very low. Apparently the SA quota is going to the US at R2600 ($421 at todays currency closing) a metric ton which they say is 20c/pound (I think thats SA censt so in dollar terms it's about 3.5 cents a pound). Given that our currency is depreciating fast this means that sugar is getting a lot cheaper for US buyers of SA sugar, and other countries with similar currency disasters such as India and Indonesia which are also big sugar producers. And I geuss we just have to see how austalia stands up to all of this as they are a huge sugar producer as well. Apparently NAFTA is placing increasing pressure on the US to increase the amount of sugar brought up from mexico as well which may help to bring down the price of HFCS as it will be a case of compete or die for the big midwest HFCS plants (who are diversifying into the byproducts market so fast they probably coudn't care anyhow!!) Anyhow, for those contemplating winter feeding bills, hope this is good news. Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis Eastern Cape Prov. South Africa Time = Honey After careful consideration, I have decided that if I am ever a V.I.P the I. may not stand for important. (rather influential, ignorant, idiotic, intelectual, illadvised etc) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 17:49:51 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Alan Sharratt Subject: Should I unite Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hello. I am a novice Beekeeper and have two hives which are just three old weeks after acquiring 2 swarms, this evening I inspected the hives and have discovered that one of the hives is queenless , no brood comb just stores of honey and pollen, the other has brood. I do not think that either hive is particularly strong just covering 5 brood frames in each hive. Should I unite the hives or introduce a Queen into the Queenless hive. Alan. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 16:26:44 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Richard H. Glassford II" Subject: Too many wasp Comments: cc: glassman@utah.uswest.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, Boy its hot here this week. It will be in the high 90's and into the 100's this week. The bees are enjoying my new watering setup. I have taken a sprinkler and turned on the faucet just a little so the water dribbles out. They land right on the sprinkler and drink the water. I dug out a hole just to the side of it and placed a lot of sand around it. Its a regular meeting place for many different kinds of insects. I love insects. They're great creatures. The only problem is I have a species of vespid wasps that are quite agressive visiting my shallow water pools. I have tried to get my insect collecting net to catch them but the wasp and bees don't like that. I am beginning to think there is no way to get rid of them if I want to provide a place for my bees to drink. If I put out wasp traps will the bees be attracted also? Rich Utah, Zone 5