========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 21:18:46 PDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ernest Gregoire Subject: Queen Marking code/Rhmye to remember MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hello Gang, JJ and I, (JJ is my wife ) , were trying to make up some rhymes to help remember the queen marking code. We came up with a few and thought that we would pass them along. If you think of any other rhymes please write to me or the group here. This is what we came up with: BLUE WHITE YELLOW RED GREEN Blessings when you remember God Bees wax yield real gain Buttons worn year round glitter Brides want young rich guys Years ending in: Blue 0 or 5 White 1 or 6 Yellow 2 or 7 Red 3 or 8 Green 4 or 9 Example 1998 ends in 8 so the color is red. We know that a queen with red is 1998 and not 1993 because that would make her 5 years old. de AA1IK, Time the accursed enemy of man, cursed by youth for going to slow Ernie Gregoire and by the old for going to fast. R.R. 1, Box 221, South Rd. Beekeeper Canaan, NH. 03741 Fly fisher & tier, Promise Keeper. E-mail address: gregoire@endor.com packet address: AA1IK@WA1WOK.FN43FE.NH.USA.NA ------------------------------------- 07/28/98 21:18:46 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 04:19:23 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Apiservices Subject: Codex Alimentarius MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 BillLord wrote: > I am looking for a copy of the honey standard of the Codex Alimentarius= =2E = It > cannot be pulled down from the FAO website. Does anyone have any electronic > versions they can transmit? Try http://www.beekeeping.org/apimondia/codex_al but it is in French (US/English version currently underway) Gilles Ratia gilles.ratia@apiservices.com www.apiservices.com www.beekeeping.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 13:12:44 -0400 Reply-To: Bob Voras Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Voras Subject: Re: beeswax opportunity MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sirs: I was just catching up on the hundreds of e-mails on beekeeping when Isaw yours! I am a volunteer at the Fort New Salem museum and we are out of good beeswax for making candles which we distribute to the public after they make them the old way by dipping in lard/water and then cooling in water. Is there any way we could come by some of your beeswax? What would you want for it? I have never ordered from overseas so what does shipping and handling cost from over there for say 100-200 lbs? We are a non-profit group trying to educate our youth (a NEVER-Ending, SEEMINGLY-FAILING endeavor) into just how hard life was when our country was being born and pioneer meant survival not going down to some amusement park and trying the newest chilling/scary ride! Please excuse if you have alrady disposed of your wax or are not interested in getting less for your product becuase we are not for profit nor sell our products. Respectrully, Bob Voras North Central West Virginia Beekeepers Assn/Fort New Salem Museum ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 06:34:13 -0400 Reply-To: mpalmer@together.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Palmer Organization: French Hill Apiaries Subject: requeening MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I would have to agree with LLoyd Spear, and George Imrie that the beekeeper's goal should be a young queen in every colony, every year. That's the perfect scenario. The perfect world. I just feel that a perfect world is either unobtainable, or too expensive. I have to justify every penny I spend. Requeening colonies with seemingly good queens is wasteful of money, and time which could be better spent elsewhere in the operation. Keeping bees in the north is different. You have one chance to do the job. I could examine my colonies or yours and find colonies that need new queens - always, and every time. So, when does it stop? I,d love to use cells in the honey supers, or some other quick way. I don't feel the short season I have would permit it. I certainly dont have time to nuc every colony. But, I do requeen as many as possible. I lose 15-20% of my colonies in winter. Those are replaced with nucs started in the spring-new queens. The bees replace 10-20% by swarming or supercedure-new queens. I requeen 20-30% my slow and tedious way-new queens. That adds up to 45-70% new queens each year. I think that's pretty good. It may not be perfect, but I'll not be one of those who lose their business by trying to run the impossible perfect operation. Mike ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 11:47:16 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Bees and St Johns Wort Hi All I have just had a chat with a Prof here who was saying that there is some interest in the herbal use of a plant called st Johns wort as a sort of herbal prozac. Apparently it is the flowers of this plant that are being used. So this makes me think: Has anybody had experience with their bees working st Johns wort and was there any noticeable change in hive characteristics? If it mimics Prozac I would think that the flower must have a chemical which regulates serotonin levels in some way - this would theoretically work on a bee brain as most of the proteins in a bee neuron would probably be roughly the same. Hence it could make bees more aggressive, or more passive, just as can happen with prozac!! Just a thought. Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis Eastern Cape Prov. South Africa Time = Honey After careful consideration, I have decided that if I am ever a V.I.P the I. may not stand for important. (rather influential, ignorant, idiotic, intelectual, illadvised etc) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 12:01:34 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: IBRA Subject: IBRA Web Pages Comments: To: IBRA News List , IBRA News List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT ***** News update on the IBRA web pages ***** Since the last update of the IBRA virtual bookshop 'BooksPlus', which involved a complete update of all the publications available from IBRA and a new easy to fill-out order form, I have now added a lot of links to images of the books and wall charts we sell. Our list is comprehensive and you may well find things in our catalogue that you can't get elsewhere. IBRA members get 10% on purchases. Check it out at http://www.cf.ac.uk/ibra/pubs-2.html I have also made some additions/corrections to the 'Links to other sites' page and the 'BeePeople' directory page, so if you asked to be added or told me of an error, please check it out and let me know if it is OK now. The other improvement I've made is to the library search pages 'BeeSearch' and the document delivery service page. Getting information on specific topics has never been easier - just fill-out the BeeSearch form with the subjects you want information on and submit it to IBRA. We keep the costs as low as possible and you can always ask for an estimate before proceeding. IBRA members, of course, get a substantial discount on all our services. http://www.cf.ac.uk/ibra/b-search.html If you know the paper/publication you need and just want a photocopy, then fill in the form on our 'Document Delivery Service' page http://www.cf.ac.uk/ibra/photo-fm.shtml IBRA provides its web pages FREE as a service to the bee world, but it needs help from those who can afford it to support its work helping those unable to pay. ****WE NEED YOUR SUPPORT **** For more information about IBRA, check out our homepage at http://www.cf.ac.uk/ibra/index.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 07:45:03 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rett Thorpe Subject: Re: Requeening Issue MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain All this talk of requeening has got me thinking I should requeen my two hives that are both two years old, however, I am recluctant to do it now because of the conditions here. I live along the Wasatch front in Utah, and due to a late spring my bees are just now really getting going, so I don't want to disrupt my chance of getting a decent harvest this year. My question is, can you requeen in the spring? My books all say to do it in the fall, but they don't really get into the reasons that this is the preferred time. Thanks for your time Rett Thorpe ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 19:27:09 +0100 Reply-To: padraigc@indigo.ie Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Cunningham Subject: Re: Queen Marking code/Rhmye to remember Comments: To: gregoire@ENDOR.COM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Ernest, The aide-memoire I use in relation to the Queen Marking Code is Years ending in Colour Line to Remember 1 & 6 White Will 2 & 7 Yellow You 3 & 8 Red Read 4 & 9 Green Good 5 & 0 Blue Books Good wishes to all. John Cunningham. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 19:05:43 -0400 Reply-To: beesbest@mediaone.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Kathy Organization: Red Maple Farm Subject: EAS... What was your favorite part? Funniest story? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, Been back from EAS for a couple weeks now and have just now found the time to write some of my recollections from the short course and conference. Some of my favorite times were spent in the bee yard with Steve Taber, who is an entertainer first and a honeybee researcher second (and more of both than I'll ever be). He had us rolling and still passed on some great info... as well as his hat and polish slippers which somehow showed up on the auction block Thurs. night A really good session was on how some beekeepers keep their records, ranging from a voice activated tape recorded (which you can then transcribe later), using a palm pilot (a hand held computer that one uses a stylus to write on) in a plastic baggie, a system of letters and colored markers that one writes on the hive with, and all of them sound more efficient than badly scribbled notes on lined paper that I try days/weeks/months later to read and enter into our database program. There were also a number of good classes/presentations/and conversations on pollination of different crops as well as presentations/discussions on other pollinators that I enjoyed. The most fun I had was at the auction. Besides the usual foolishness and the ritual stealing of a featured speaker's stuff for auction... This year, one of the Blohm brothers had a great idea. That idea was to auction off 1/2 hour of a well known/prominent beekeeper/entomologist/researcher's time for the highest bidder to have for uninterrupted information exchange. This got twisted up a bit when one entomologist's wife bought his half hour for herself (and made him pay for it), and when several others were "bought" for the sole purpose of making them drink too much honey beer and threatening to make them act out bee behavior. All in all another good conference... Kathy (wondering whether ABF or AHP are half as much fun) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 21:44:34 -0400 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Eyre Organization: The Bee Works Subject: Re: Requeening Issue MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Date sent: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 07:45:03 -0600 Send reply to: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rett Thorpe Subject: Re: Requeening Issue To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > All this talk of requeening has got me thinking I should requeen my two > hives that are both two years old, however, I am recluctant to do it now > because of the conditions here. I live along the Wasatch front in Utah, > and due to a late spring my bees are just now really getting going, so I > don't want to disrupt my chance of getting a decent harvest this year. > My question is, can you requeen in the spring? My books all say to do > it in the fall, but they don't really get into the reasons that this is > the preferred time. You can, but, there is more chance of a hive failing in the winter with an older queen. Winter is a very stressful time for bees, and older queens just can't cut it. Before we adopted a 'new' attitude regarding requeening we lost a number of hives every year. Then we noticed an amount of newly emerged queen cells in the deadouts, cells which were made over the winter. We surmised that the old queen failed, a new one was tried but off course not mated. So now, no messing. Unless we need her genetics and are prepared to gamble, all 2 year old queens get squished and replaced. Guess how many hives we lose to winterkill now? None! As to a lose of harvest. You've already got the bees to make the harvest. From here on in the new queen will be laying eggs for late summer or winter bees so therefore requeening has little impact on the harvest. ******************************************** The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia, ON, Canada. Phone- 705-326 7171. Fax 705 325 3461. North American agents. E.H.Thorne(UK)Ltd. Ventilated Hives and Equipment David Eyre... Owner http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks ********************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 21:08:17 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: EAS... What was your favorite part? Funniest story? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 07:05 PM 7/29/98 -0400, you wrote: >Kathy (wondering whether ABF or AHP are half as much fun) Hi Kathy, You bet they are and then some as what you see during the active bee season is nothing compared to what happens after bee keepers have been caged up by winter weather a few weeks. I really enjoy reading of yours and others experiences at EAS or any bee meeting. You could easily write a book on some of the crazy bee keepers and the fun, funny, and sometimes almost dirty tricks pulled at the America Beekeeping Federation meetings. A maybe not so funny story.. Well a lot of big bee business goes on at these meeting as you would suspect and way into the wee hours and some rich foods and spirits are consumed and even a few Cuban Cigars smoked (in the old days). Honey packers, big honey producers from all over the world, importers, exporters, and even men from Washington, (that's all I am going to say no names). Anyway this man from Washington fell asleep in the late hours of one of these meeting, I am not saying we did not encourage him to consume a certain amount of stronger drink then he could hold, but he did fall into a deep sleep. His mistake was that he did it in a chair with casters on it. DING... so I got an idea, (that's only half true, I had an idea all along that's the reason his chair was different). All know I am not overly found of men from Washington no matter how high they are on the ladder, but I have always done my part to help beekeepers get what they need even if it meant working with some people I would not normally be around, and this guy was really acting like a hard case and we were not getting anywhere with him. Anyway I got a person or two that will remain nameless to help me move this sleeping bureaucrat into the automatic elevator, and pushed the lobby button knowing he would take a little trip from the upper floors to the lobby and then the doors would open and soon close as the elevator waited for the next passenger to push the outside button. At that time of night or morning bee keepers and their wives would be returning from a night on the town and would find the elevator operator sleeping on duty which would be no problem as it was self service anyway until they recognized who it was. The next morning we found out that this was indeed what happened and it was the high light of many who returned from a night on the town. The man from Washington never mentioned it the next night or even years later but after that experience he was not very interested in strong drink for sure. He also seemed to be a much nicer guy and more interested in the bee keepers side of problems at the Washington level. Actually we collected up the remains and put him to bed in one of our extra rooms kept for such emergencies a little before daylight returned. I won't say much more but another one of these hard case bureaucrats from the government who came to help us at another time brought along his very young attractive executive sectary but he could not have been such a bad guy as he saved us all tax money by sharing a room with her which a friend in the hotel informed me, (always pays to be nice to them who waits on you), and even the same bed we found out when it was necessary to pour him in it. He had a much different attitude about bee keepers the next morning also and us hay seeds are not at all surprised when we read about our high government officials today and understand why the British burned Washington a long time ago but it seems a few have not learned by our history or the Bible as to what to expect when personal gratification is put above man's or God's Law's. These bee keeper groups also have had some very lively ways of displacing a bee keeper from his money such as honey auctions and the like. The best part of all these meeting is the chance to make new friends, see old one's, and talk bee keeping from sunup to sundown with the biggest and the smallest of operations and the friends of the industry who attend. The American Honey Producers also have a good time and usually a smaller group so more time to discuss the issues with each other and any guests. Also the cost is usually less because of the group size and the more choice of hotels that can accommodate them. I use to surprise my fellow commercial bee keepers who wondered how I could maybe give a presentation on the latest greatest most expensive newest commercial bee keeping equipment that all would want to run right out and buy, then keep the party rooms in order and spend the next day listening at the hobbyist meeting. But I learned early on two things, drink a lot of soft drinks as drinking too may hard ones and you can't take notes of what you hear or see, and that all bee keepers regardless of the number of hives or years of experience have the ability to pick up on bee keeping through observation and trial and (t)error and if they have any communication skills at all and most do if they will just try, and all can pass on wonderful ideas and I have never been disappointed. I don't get to bee meeting much anymore but I always will have good memories of the large number of them I have attended and encourage all that can to support all of the bee organizations and attend their annual meetings when they can. I can say compared to other farm meeting and I have been to some with 10,000 and more in attendance that would attract the President of the US or would bee presidents which are memorable for sure but nothing compares to the honest information that is passed at bee keeper meetings bee keeper to bee keeper and I include all bee keepers, scientists, academics, and government officials, who for the most part have the best interest of all bee keepers at heart. (Not always, but most of the time. In any case God has blessed us all with the ability to separate the Grain from the Chaff.) ttul, the OLd Drone http://beenet.com (c)Permission is given to copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 05:22:04 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Apiservices Subject: Re: Queen Marking colors code MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Go to: http://www.beekeeping.com/goodies/codes_colors.htm Gilles Ratia gilles.ratia@apiservices.com http://www.apiservices.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 10:00:17 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Greg J Zujus Subject: Re: Foulbrood Please be advised that there is a widespread foulbrood problem in Connecticut. Our state bee inspector Mr. Ira Kettle , Is working diligently to determine the extent of the infection. >Tom in CT thinking maybe time to shut em all down and apply dust and >apistan > Tom, I have spoken with Mr Kettle and he informs me that a sample of brood from one of the infected hives was sent to the Bee Lab in Maryland. The Foulbrood was found to be a Terramyicin resistant strain of foulbrood. I had Mr. Kettle inspect my hives last week, they are all clean. I suggest you inspect or have Mr Kettle inspect all your hives when possible. Greg in CT _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 16:56:21 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Transferring queens to force supersedure Hi All A while ago there was a post on the group about some paper where it was found that a queen leaves in a swarm with the most genetically similar offspring. This set me thinking that if one swaps queens in hives at different ends of the apiary (acting as though they were normal queens etc) then theoretically if a hive does swarm it will swarm with a small swarm. I have tried a variation of this where I requeened a hive with an old raggedy queen from a wild swarm, and withing a week they had built supersedure cells, and for all I know did not swarm. Anybody tried this?? Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis Eastern Cape Prov. South Africa Time = Honey After careful consideration, I have decided that if I am ever a V.I.P the I. may not stand for important. (rather influential, ignorant, idiotic, intelectual, illadvised etc) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 12:13:36 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: Re: Foulbrood Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/30/98 10:06:04 AM Eastern Daylight Time, gjz2@JUNO.COM writes: > The Foulbrood was found to be a Terramyicin resistant strain of > foulbrood. This is my reason for not using terra patties I use sugar terra mix on the edges of the brood frames. Grease and sugar is fine but continuous low leval exposure to terra is looking for trouble. So far my inspections have been good and anything not currently in honey production is getting terra now. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 13:53:01 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Green Subject: Re: Transferring queens to force supersedure Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/30/98 11:01:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time, g95c6713@WARTHOG.RU.AC.ZA writes: << I have tried a variation of this where I requeened a hive with an old raggedy queen from a wild swarm, and withing a week they had built supersedure cells, and for all I know did not swarm. >> I suspect that swarming is a program built into queens in their second year. The supersedure that follows once she is established and laying, is part of the program. Often virgins go along with the swarm. We can delay our old queens here in South Carolina, by knocking them down to 2 frames of brood in early spring, or shaking packages from them, but these queens very often, (and maybe nearly always) manage to swarm later in the season. I keep promising to requeen everything every year, except breeding stock, but I often don't get to it, though I sure regret August, September and October swarms. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 14:13:46 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: The Proper Use of TM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >> The Foulbrood (in Ct) was found to be a Terramycin resistant strain > ... > Grease and sugar is fine but continuous low level exposure to terra > is looking for trouble. One of the sessions at EAS was titled "Proper Use of Terramycin". I'm racking my brain for the presenter, but I'm coming up with a blank. However, the presenter worked closely with the manufacturer of TM (Pfizer?) to examine closely, possible causes for emerging foulbrood resistance to TM. There were many variables, but the gist of the presentation was indeed, low level exposure to TM can lead to increased resistance in Bacillus larvae. Grease patties were identified as a source of the low level exposure, but I was surprised to hear the reasoning. It wasn't that it takes so long for the patties to be consumed, it was more a matter that the recipes published in almost all catalogs and magazines end up delivering too small a dose in the first place, exacerbated by the fact that the insufficient dose is in a patty that is too large for the bees to consume! The commonly published recipes deliver too small a dose of TM in too large of a patty to effectively check B. larvae. Another problem with TM delivery is that the label instructions for its use (as it pertains to honey bees) is a "one size fits all" dose, when in reality the amount of TM required per hive varies from hive to hive due to the differences in populations from hive to hive. Further confusing the issue is the ambiguity of the instructions in preparing the proper treatment. With three preparations of TM (TM-10, TM-25 and TM-50) and mixtures given in grams to add to grams of sugar, when sugar comes in 1 pound boxes or 5, 10, 25 and 50 pound bags it becomes hard for the "average" beekeeper to concoct the correct formula to deliver the proper dosage. And how many beekeepers have scales, let alone use them? Even when or if one has correctly mixed the TM and sugar, the label says one heaping teaspoon (tablespoon?) of TM/Sugar mixture per hive, three times at three day intervals. Well, do I heap my teaspoons as high as Mr. Pfizer? Are my hives as populous or more or less populous as Mr. Pfizer's? Are my bees really getting the "recommended" dosage? ALL these ambiguities contribute to the problem, the end results being that resistant strains of foulbrood ARE becoming more commonplace. What to do? Well, for George Imirie this is a nonproblem. If he sees foulbrood he burns it. PERIOD. For those on the TM merry go around (credits to Andy), it is imperative to understand the manner in which TM inhibits foulbrood and to deliver the proper dosage at the proper time for the proper length of time. If your delivery mechanism is grease patties, make sure your ratio of crisco:sugar:TM contains sufficient TM in a patty of the proper size so your bees get enough TM to control foulbrood. Grease patties as a delivery vector for TM was an idea to address the uneconomical alternative of dusting which is not convenient for commercial operations. I agree with BeeCrofter, I have never really cared for grease patties, but I based this on a concern for low dosages over long periods. After the presentation I was more comfortable with the vector if the ratios were sufficient to deliver enough TM in the proper time period. However I'll continue to dust rather than grease. My question to the presenter (was it John Root? Help anyone?) was, "As a mid sized duster, what is the proper mixture of the TM packets to the one pound boxes of Domino Confectioners Sugar to mix the proper medication to dust my bees?". The answer was one packet of TM to 2 one pound boxes of sugar to give the proper mixture to dust my bees according to label instructions. But still, do my teaspoons heap as high? Are my hives as populous? Are my hives more populous? Are my bees getting the proper dose? These ambiguities leading to insufficient doses are the cause of the problems, not the grease patties. I left the session with a better appreciation for the issues and a feeling that it is better to err on the side of too much than too little, something I have always tried in the past. In the past my arithmetic gave the answers of 2 and a half boxes of sugar to a packet of TM, so I used 3 boxes of sugar because I didn't want left over sugar and compensated by using REALLY heaping teaspoons and judged the population issue based on how much sugar was consumed between treatments. However, I'm sure more than ever that my previous practices have been at best a SWAG at delivering the proper dosage. I hope this confusion helps clear this up. Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 15:33:12 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: Re: The Proper Use of TM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/30/98 2:15:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, SYSAM@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU writes: > The answer was one packet of TM to 2 one > pound boxes of sugar to give the proper mixture to dust my bees > according to label instructions. Well OK is that a packet of 10gm 25gm or 50gm TM? My dust is 1 Part TM10 to 2 Parts sugar by volume And applied as a heaping Tablespoon per application with 3-5 foraging days in between done 3 times. TM 10 in 6.4 oz packages is whats on the shelf at my local Agway and since he sells some of my honey thats where I buy. Tom in CT ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 13:46:20 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Blane White Subject: Foulbrood -Reply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Tom, Not a bad idea but check first for disease. With the discovery a few = years ago of American Foulbrood resistant to terramycin there could be = some cases where terra will not work it these cases destroying infected = frames is the only way to go. Blane from Minnesota where we are dealing with resistant AFB and = beekeepers are doing a good job of it. **************************************** Blane White MN Dept. of Agriculture St Paul, MN blane.white@state.mn.us ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 18:44:34 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Christopher Slade Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 28 Jul 1998 to 29 Jul 1998 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit To pick up on a couple of points from this digest, I sometimes use a voice actuated portable tape recorder to make notes when examining my hives. I usually set it on the roof of the adjacent hive and talk when there is something to record. Very often the recorder is attacked by angry bees even when they are leaving me alone. Why? The mnemonic I use for the annual colours is When You Requeen Gently Blob (her thorax with paint) I have St John;s Wort flowering in my garden at the moment. I have never noticed bees working it. I shall keep an eye on it. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 12:22:50 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "James R. Shaver" Subject: Re: The Proper Use of TM Aaron, Could you explain to we novices how you go about dusting? Thanks. Jim Shaver, Los Angeles _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 10:50:53 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tom Sanford Subject: information MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Return-path: >Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 11:18:39 +0300 >From: Kassa Mengistu >Subject: information >To: "'MTS@GNV.IFAS.UFL.EDU'" > >From Ethio falcon Trading >Mail address p.o.box 22317 canningham street >Addis Ababa, Ethiopia (East Africa) >Fax 00-251-1-553621 Tel 00251-1-117722 >Email efat@telecom.net.et >Dear Sirs, >Allow us to introduce ourselves that we are importing & distributing Agro-chemicals, Vegetable seeds, Veterinary drugs and instrument from different foreign countries in to Ethiopia >We have got your address through Internet >We have an interest to import Modern Bee equipment from your company >Most equpment necessary & given priority are as follows >1. Modern Bee hives >2. Wax moulder >3. Queen excluder >4. Honey strainer >5. Refractometer >6. Fumigant >7. Masking Etc >Please send us the export price list and current catalogue of your modern Bee equipment as soon as possible. We have planned established strong mutual benefit between our companies and hence don't hesitate to forward your suggestion. >Sincerely yours > > >Kassa mengistu > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 18:27:11 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: Re: Foulbrood -Reply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/30/98 4:34:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Blane.White@STATE.MN.US writes: > Not a bad idea but check first for disease. Not having experianced the joy of foulbrood (yet) I am double checking everything and am doing a preventative on any hive not currently having supers on. Should I find any you can bet the flames will be high. So far other than annoyed bees- due to the heat and lack of a strong flow so good. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 08:44:31 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Faith Andrews Bedford Subject: Re: Sweet Dreams Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Questions: Has anyone seen "Best of Bee?" I've not gotten a posting since 7/17 2) Has anyone seen a response to my article i nCountry Living entitled "Sweet Dreams?" on the basic Bee-Line (which I no longer get since I asked BoB to "filter" for me?) I promised my editors at Country Living that I would let them know if there was any response pro or con....or just comments for the "real beekeepers of America." So, if anyone has seen a comment on Bee Line or BoB (and it may be that none of you are getting B oB either)could they please forward it to me at: FaithAB@aol. com. Thanks so much, Faith ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 09:08:46 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: More on "Using TM Correctly" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT For those interested in "The Proper use of TM", please read this entire post as I respond to many posts herein. More information on "The Proper Use of Terramycin" was provided by Keith B. Forsyth and Tom Cornick, who wrote: > From: "Keith B. Forsyth" > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Re: The Proper Use of TM > Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 19:29:24 -0400 > > Hi, > > The title of paper presented at EAS was Using Terramycin Correctly. > Jack Thomas of Mann Lake made this presentation. > Best Wishes in beekeeping. > >-------------------------------------------------< > From: > Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 05:05:45 EDT > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Check out Bee Culture October 1997 Issue - USING TERRAM... > > http://www.airoot.com/beeculture/97oct3.htm > > For those with a hard copy of Bee Culture it is the cover with a yellow > jacket and a bee side by side on some comb Oct 97 issue. > > Tom in CT Tom also asked: > Well OK is that a packet of 10gm 25gm or 50gm TM? ... > TM 10 in 6.4 oz packages is what's on the shelf at my local Agway.... This is the point that Jack Thomas was making at EAS! Tom writes that the 6.4 oz package at his local Agway is TM 10. The 6.4 oz package of TM at my local Agway is TM 25. Both contain oxytet, just different concentrations, which definitely adds to the confusion. Another piece of the puzzle elucidated at EAS was the fact that the formulations of Oxytetracycline differ depending on its intended use. When one reads the label they will see that oxytet is commonly used to treat chickens, goats, horses, swine, ..., and even honey bees! Now please folks, don't take these next few lines as gospel, I took very poor notes and then only with regards to TM and bees, I have no goats or chickens and swine (although there are some who associate me with the latter). However, the nongospel recollections of Aaron Morris are that the "carrier" for oxytet used to be (still is in some formulations?), ground up rice hulls. This was fine for most of the target animals who readily ingest rice hulls, but bees will have nothing to do with rice hulls in their diet, perceived the rice hulls as debris in the hive and carried the hulls (and TM) out of the hive and discarded it! When this was discovered, Pfizer reformulated their product so the oxytet was put on a different carrier (I forgot what that carrier is) to ensure that it is ingested rather than ejected. So now, not only do we beekeepers have to deal with the different concentrations of TM, we must also make sure that we are buying the proper formulation of TM. Getting back to the "Proper Use...", the critical point is that with all the combinations and permutations of TM concentrations and formulations, the beekeepers must make sure that they are concocting a proper formulation to make sure that their bees receive the recommended dosage of oxytetracycline. And now we're back to the problem that the recommended dosage for bees is a one size fits all, which is really an inadequate recommendation. Dosage recommendation for other animals are given in relation to animal weight, yet recommendations for bees are given "per colony" regardless of colony size or strength. Is it a single brood chamber dinky colony or a triple brood chamber buster? Makes no never mind to the vendor, who recommends 200 mg per colony. Until such time that the label instructions for TM use for bees is improved/clarified I will look at the 200 mg per colony as a rule of thumb rather than a cast in stone dosage. Finally, I realize this is getting long, James R. Shaver requests that I explain how I go about dusting. Henceforth I will mix one 6.4 oz package of water soluble TM 25 with two one pound boxes of domino confectioners sugar to concoct the proper medication medium. Label instructions (which I now perceive as totally inadequate) call for 3 dustings per colony at 3 to 5 day intervals, so armed with my medications (bee medications, not prozac) and a tablespoon and a hand held flour sifter I head out to my bee yards where I dump a heaping tablespoon full of medication into the flour sifter and dust the ends of the frames in the top brood chamber. I only dust the ends of the frames to avoid having medicated sugar get into unsealed brood cells. Medicated sugar will kill bee larvae. I repeat this 3 to 5 days later, and again three to five days after that. After doing this a few hundred times I develop a feel for how much medicated sugar gets dusted onto the ends of the frames and I just sort of eyeball it. After I do this for 5 or ten years I also develop a feel for how strong is the particular colony I am treating and adjust my eyeball dosage accordingly. Is each colony getting the recommended 200 mg dosage? Obviously I cannot swear to that. I can swear that I have not seen a case of AFB in my colonies since I began treating with TM, twice annually in late fall (post Halloween) after honey supers are off my hives and early spring (around St. Patrick's Day) long before my honey supers go on. Obviously these dates will vary depending on your location. Lastly, thanks to Tom Cornick for posting the URL for the "Bee Culture" article titled "USING TERRAMYCIN - A Bee Culture Extra". Readers are encouraged to surf there and read it. Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:00:44 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: Re: More on "Using TM Correctly" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit OK a little clarity on TM 10 and TM25 TM 10 is a misnomer Here is why in a packet of TM 6.4 oz there are 10 grams of active ingrediant a pound of the same stuff 25 grams of active ingrediant the stuff in a 6.4 oz package is TM25 the numbers are based on grams of active ingrediant per pound. Any wonder why it's confusing? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 12:25:14 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Partin Subject: Re: More on "Using TM Correctly" Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) I may have not figured this right but in the artical it said that you need 200 mg /hive of terra. that would mean that you need 600 mg total, then it said that one pack of 6.4 terra woud treat 12 hives useing patties. I think that would total 833 mg/ hive did I not get this right. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 13:26:46 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Partin Subject: Re: More on "Using TM Correctly" Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) I don't know a lot about using TM but being a beekeeper i have an opinion. If you have been keeping bees very long you have spores in your hives and the only reason your bees don't have foulbrood is that your bees are good housekeepers and just in case you do have a out break you medicate them with TM 2 times a year. The spores are there all the time. They get there because you can not control your bees getting honey from dead wild hives or dead hives from other beekeepers. If you don't have any spores you would not have to doctor for it. For beekeepers that make a living at it the patties were God sent. The patties, and the mites killing all the wild bees, have greatly help beekeepers that have a lot of hives control foulbrood. The % of bees that get the correct amount of TM for the correct amount of time increaced greatly because of the patties, but never forget you never kill the spores and you never know if your bees ever have had it or not because a good house keeper will clean it up befor you can find it but they do not clean the spores up they are there to stay. BUD ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 13:49:57 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: Re: More on "Using TM Correctly" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/31/98 1:45:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bud1941@WEBTV.NET writes: > > I may have not figured this right but in the artical it said that you > need 200 mg /hive of terra. that would mean that you need 600 mg total, > then it said that one pack of 6.4 terra woud treat 12 hives useing > patties. I think that would total 833 mg/ hive did I not get this right. > Patties get more terra per hive because over time terra degrades and patties last quite some time. Ever removed an uneaten patty? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 11:32:41 -0700 Reply-To: robert@objectdata.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert MacKimmie Subject: Propolis collection - newbee overview please ... Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 4.2mach v148) Hi all, The TM dialog is great. Keep up the clarifications - I have learned much already. On a less troubling subject, who could provide the basics of propolis production. I purchased several propolis screens, but because I am using flat tops instead of telescoping, I don't know whether I have to create a space above the screen for the bees to work it. Maybe screens don't really work. I don't have years of periodicals to cruise and books don't provide more than a vague reference. Any clues would be helpful. Thanks, robert@objectdata.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 20:59:37 +0300 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jan Tempelman Organization: Home Subject: portable tape recorder MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Christopher Slade wrote: > > Very often the recorder is attacked by angry bees even > when they are leaving me alone. Why? I don't use glooves and short sleeves. I note that the bees often attack my watch When i take it off, and lay it on a hive , they attach the watch on the hive. Must be something on the sound they make........i beleive ;-) greetings jan ------------------------------------------------- home of the drone frame method. de darreraat methode ------------------------------------------------- http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/index3.html Jan Tempelman mailto:jtemp@xs4all.nl Sterremos 16 3069 AS Rotterdam, The Netherlands Tel/Fax (SOMETIMES) XX 31 (0)10-4569412 ------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 14:08:08 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: More on "Using TM Correctly" In-Reply-To: <199807311311.GAA15721@mx1.thegrid.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:08 AM 7/31/98 -0400, you wrote: >More information on "The Proper Use of Terramycin" was provided by And More About Terramycin Then You Ever Wanted To Know or "Was The Dress Stained With MY What?" Clinton on the phone to Stanford University. Hi U all, bee keepers & their friends, Terramycin is one of several antibiotic's that works in the prevention of European Foul Brood and American Foul Brood in honeybees. It is registered in the US for that use, sad for the countries that have not allowed its use by their bee keepers. Most commercial bee keepers here in the US destroy all combs or at the least all brood combs from hives infected with AFB and none that use TM report more then little economic damage from AFB with levels at or below 1/2 of 1% per year and many at zero. In years back the burning of all AFB equipment would also keep the new infection rate in commercial operations at the same levels as today. But because today with so many bees commingling in limited areas of pasture such as caused by pollination projects the use of TM is more important then ever before in areas that have a history of AFB. Beekeepers in these areas should make prophylactic treatments with TM.. And because of the nature of EFB is such that to gain control in areas of high stress or because of poor bee foods during the most active brood rearing periods it is necessary to have the TM in the hive before the EFB problem develops and when used as directed NO EFB will be found. ABOUT RESISTANCE, we all should be concerned, but the resistance reported so far has been far from conclusive to any but the few reporting it and NO ONE has yet shown that there are viable reproductive strains of AFB that are resistance to any or all antibiotics. If this was possible I think by now most beekeepers today realize how fast this would spread and we all would have resistance AFB in our hives and we do not. Because the poor hygienic behavior of the "beekeeper" has been shown for more then 75 years to be the prime cause for the spread of AFB and this behavior can be changed or controlled no one should get their panties in a wad over these reports until you hear the EFB cannot be controlled with antibiotics as EFB has in the past taken out more bees in the US then anything else reported to date and including the feral populations at the time and because of that we today have a diverse gene pool from around the world in American bees. AFB has never been reported to have destroyed large numbers of hives in a short span of time as EFB does and AFB is not considered a disease of feral honeybees because it is rare in them and I am sure and encourage those who have seen AFB in feral hives to let us hear about it. Most old time bee tree cutters reported NO AFB in the woods and no one has ever shown or suggested a danger to feral honeybee populations because of AFB. Some, me and one or two others, have went as far as to suggest "AFB was a beekeepers disease" and not a true honeybee disease and some feral bee research has been able to suggest just that. But if your bees have it you better take care of it as if not they won't be restocking the feral populations anyway. The water soluble powder form of TERRAMYCIN is the only form that is economic to feed bees even if you do not use a liquid as a carrier. The other forms will work but the dosage must be increased and there is considerable waste and you should avoid their use. TM is used to treat the unit of production and not the bee. This antibiotic may have no effect on the disease itself but does cause the bees to respond when it is fed to them to deal with the problem diseases. It works, how it works is not clear and may not be known the same as how the common aspirin works, it just does. There are many other antibiotics that will do the same at higher costs but in some cases at a lower cost and are not now in use by the bee industry so the question of the loss of Terramycin as a beekeeping tool for what ever reason is a little premature and something that we should be aware of but NOT worry about because there is a greater chance that because of animal feeding practices hyped by the different food fanatic groups and not what beekeepers are doing will be the reason PFIZER the manufacture will some day have a problem. At that time we will need to move on replacing it and most of the needed work has been done on several products that could be used in place of TM. Most if not all will cost more because of their limited use compared to TM. TM is a formulation of the chemical OXY TETRACYCLINE and was found to be beneficial to honeybees with several disease problems all through trial and error with many other chemicals and antibiotics. Further trial and error found the dosage of TM that would kill 50% of the adult bees and the recommended amount of active material to use in each hive was found by backing off from that point. Increasing the amount of active ingredient used in each hive will at some point reach that LD 50 level so don't do it. I can say for a fact that in personal mistakes or trials and real (t)errors that dusting hives with 100% TM 10 does have a dramatic positive effect on the presence of the disease EFB and any loss of adult bees was minimal. Any material that gets into the brood food of honeybees including sugar or sugar and TM will cause the bees to remove that food and the larva will die. I guess if you want to be PC Terramycin used this way will kill brood, but so would anything else so what's the big deal. TM when used in a liquid, water, sugar syrup, or with bee spit will with exposure to sun light and in a short time degrade. All recommendations for TM used this way take that into consideration and it should not be a problem to beekeepers other then those who insist that a clear glass jar outside of the hive is the only way to feed. These beekeepers should feed only what the bees will take into the hive in one day and then feed fresh material the next day until the prescribed amount of material is consumed or taken into the hive. This is true with all uses of soluble TM with birds or bees. TM feed in the fall to bees in Canada has been shown to be active the next spring after stored in the hive in sugar syrup. A few lots of honey have been intercepted off the bee farm containing small amounts of TM, these lots are destroyed or at the best returned to the producer to feed back to their bees. This has NOT been a problem and some packers do make a organized effort to check for TM and other residues of farm chemicals. Of all the drugs or antibiotics tested or used with bees we have been very fortunate in the choice of TM because it works, its been cheep, has caused beekeepers few problems, and when fed to normal healthy hives with no history of disease will increase the amount of brood over feeding just sugar syrup alone. God Bless the Farm Division of Pfizer Chemical Company, if we had to depend on the others today such as ZOECON the cost of treating one hive would be measured in dollars and not cents as we may again discover with new bee medicine products soon to be released for use by beekeepers in the US. ttul, the OLd Drone http://beenet.com for the latest HYPE on Killer Bees & Worms (c)Permission is given to copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 18:14:05 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Diane Boller Subject: Re: More on "Using TM Correctly" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I know that terramycin degrades quickly in liquid, but when the bees are feeding quickly (they finish a quart while I'm at work during the day lately when I provide it), wouldn't it be best to put the recommended dosage in the syrup? I've read that it can lose it's effectiveness within a day, but if the bees ingest all the medicine within a few hours, it seems better than having it sit on the top bars, sometimes for several days, getting moist and hot from the hive environment. No?