========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 05:27:36 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Daniel D. Dempsey" Subject: Re: More on "Using TM Correctly" In-Reply-To: <199807311311.GAA27893@tco1.tco.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >> Well OK is that a packet of 10gm 25gm or 50gm TM? ... >> TM 10 in 6.4 oz packages is what's on the shelf at my local Agway.... > >This is the point that Jack Thomas was making at EAS! Tom writes >that the 6.4 oz package at his local Agway is TM 10. The 6.4 oz package >of TM at my local Agway is TM 25. Both contain oxytet, just different >concentrations, which definitely adds to the confusion. Hi All I think if you read the pkg again that a 6.4oz package of TM contains 10gm. of TM which works out to 25gm. to a pound. Dan Daniel D. Dempsey P. O. Box 5 Red Bluff,CA 96080-0005 ddempsey@tco.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 14:25:26 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: Terramycin possibilities Hi All I have enjoyed the TM discussion so far and just thought I would throw in my bit as a microbio person. The treatments described seem to involve getting the antibiotic into as many bees as possible. I would theorise that one actually wants to medicate one full life cycle of bees, so as to have ensured that young raised are fed by adults who have embibed spores which germinated and died. What the young are fed must also contain medication. One wants the base of all cells being used for brood to be filled with TM containing food produced by nurses fed by workers eating tm contaminated food sources. Hence one should have a period when the total number of spores in the hive will decrease dramatically as they are lapped up by cleaners and killed with TM when they germinate. In the end, a number of the bacteria will develop TM resistance. To do this they will probably have hauled water from a puddle with a Cow pat in it. Cows are fed TM and harbour hundreds of TM resistant strans. These bacteria will die and the bacillus we are interested in may pick up that DNA and become TM resistant. However it now has to lug this big piece of DNA around that gives it this resistance. When you take the TM away, and bacteria that are silly enough to lug this gene around for a while will die becuase the others that have thrown it away again have a competitive advantage. And the chances are, if a bug is carrying that gene around for resistance it will become that much less virulent and the bees may be able to cope with it anyhow. Many prophylactic treatments work in this fashion - to encourage resistant strains that can then be mopped up by natural systems available in the organism being treated. It's a bit like building special fences around houses that require a burglar have several spades tied to each leg to be able to get over them. It is much easier for police to catch these burglars, and if one takes the fence away later and the burglars are stupid enough to continue wearing the spades the cops will have a field day. Just my two milligrams. Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis Eastern Cape Prov. South Africa Time = Honey After careful consideration, I have decided that if I am ever a V.I.P the I. may not stand for important. (rather influential, ignorant, idiotic, intelectual, illadvised etc) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 10:29:54 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tim Sterrett Subject: Re: bees attack wristwatch MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------B8C1884D9A6DC9C8216C8D47" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------B8C1884D9A6DC9C8216C8D47 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jan Tempelman wrote: > I note that the bees often attack my watch > > When I take it off, and lay it on a hive , they attack the watch on the hive. The bees are probably responding to the sweaty odors on the watch and, especially, on the watchband. Tim Sterrett (Southeastern Pennsylvania, USA) --------------B8C1884D9A6DC9C8216C8D47 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Tim Sterrett Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Tim Sterrett n: Sterrett;Tim email;internet: sterrett@voicenet.com x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard --------------B8C1884D9A6DC9C8216C8D47-- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 14:44:43 -0400 Reply-To: john.kriz@snet.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "John J. Kriz" Subject: New Bee seen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I saw a "bee" on my bee balm recently I cannot identify. It's about the length of three bumblebees, but does not seem to have a sectioned body. It flies like a hummingbird. The front half of the body is pale brownish orange. The aft end is an Indian Red, with a stripe of that brownish orange, then the Indian Red again. The very end of it is squared off, and seems to look like a lobsteer's tail. Any idea what this is?? ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 17:09:47 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Viktor E Sten Subject: Re: bees attack wristwatch Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Jan Tempelman wrote: > >> I note that the bees often attack my watch >> >> When I take it off, and lay it on a hive , they attack the watch on the hive. > Tim Sterrett wrote: > The bees are probably responding to the sweaty odors on the watch and, >especially, on the watchband. When the bees in my back yard get annoyed on my riding lawn mower they attack the handle on the lever for lowering the cutter blades. This handle sits on top of a 1 meter ~ 3 ft. long rod. Seen from the top the handle looks like an eye with a 1/2" red round center and a 1/8" wide aluminium ring around it. This seems to indicate that the bees sees the handle as the eye of an attacker. It would seem to me that Jan Templeman's bees sees his watch as an eye to be attacked. To tickle my curiosity further I think I will make a couple of aluminium buttons painted red in the center (yes I know them suckers are supposed to be color impaired). Next time I encounter a cross hive I will then see if the bees are inclined to attack the buttons rather than me. If this does not work I could try mounting them on flimsy springs so they will move a bit. Viktor in Hawkesbury, Ontario. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 20:28:35 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=F8rn_Johanesson?= Subject: Beekeeping Estabslishment Acount Spreadsheet. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable First off, the beekeeping year has been very bad for some Danish Beekeepers; about 70%-100% loss of colonies in the spring. A wet and cold summer reduced the honey harvest to around half of normal. Some beekeepers are already feeding. We hope for a better year next year, so not all beekeepers are giving up :-) About the subject. I have added a function to my software to maintain a Beekeeping Establishment Account. It is only for the Win95/Win98/NT edition. The spreadsheet can be saved as excel5. It is translated into Danish, German and English. You are free to load the English spreadsheet and translate it into your language. In the worksheet designer (Available to registered Users) save it to a filename containing your country code e.g. "sheet149.vts" where "49" stands for Germany. The printout area is the resulting calculation. Some Data is taken from the database and hard coded into the Spreadsheet in some fields. so there is no reason to edit those manually. Those are : 1. Number of colonies in the database, 2. Number of working hours entered into the database, and 3. Total honey harvest calculated from the database. Furthermore I have dropped the big input and moved maintenance to the quick input. The software will also try to determine the language drivers for your Country Code so that it is possible for you to enter non-English letters into the database. From within the tool menu, you can open a list and choose the language driver you need if my software can't find it by itself. About language support; I know that in some countries people read and write from right to left. If you are interested, I can easily add this facility to my software. Just e-mail me your country code and I will implement it. It is also possible to provide IMA support if I know the IMA driver needed, e.g. for Chinese. If you translate the spreadsheet then I would appreciate receiving a copy of it. regards Jorn Johanesson Beekeeper since 1970 EDBi =3D Beekeeping Multilingual software since 1986 homepages http://wn.com.au/apimo http://home4.inet.tele.dk/apimo e-mail apimo@post4.tele.dk ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 08:43:11 PDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Re: - TM resistance In-Reply-To: <199808011232.WAA21487@iccu5.ipswich.gil.com.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Garth said >Hence one should have a period when the total number of spores in the = >hive will decrease dramatically as they are lapped up by cleaners and = killed >with TM when they germinate. The key words here "when they germinate". We know that TM will not kill = spores so to completely rid a hive of AFB spores, every spore in the hive= must be exposed to the TM when they germinate. If this is not the case = then you still have AFB in the hive and it will still self perpetuate in = the hive. > In the end, a number of the bacteria will develop TM resistance. To > do this they will probably have hauled water from a puddle with a Cow = > pat in it. Cows are fed TM and harbour hundreds of TM resistant > strans. As I understand it, the TM may have been exposed to that bacteria in the = cow but it will not be AFB unless cows get AFB. In reverse, I don't thin= k that the bacteria in cows cause disease in bees. So, as it has been = explained to me, the resistance comes, not from a common water source, = but continued low level exposure to the anitbiotic. There is also not = cross resistance to diseases in other animals that are fed a common antib= iotic. With regard to the resistance question, I seem to recall reading in an = American Bee Journal or Bee Culture several years back that AFB in Russia= was showing signs of resistance to oxytetracycline hydrochloride. If our Editors are on line to Bee-L, maybe they can recall this or check = in past issues as there has been no mention of this case in Russian since= , that I have seen. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 07:14:56 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Murray McGregor Subject: Re: Traecheal Mite In-Reply-To: <901574392.2023768.0@uacsc2.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 In article <901574392.2023768.0@uacsc2.albany.edu>, Alan Sharratt writes >Hello. >Could anybody advise me on the prevention/treatment of the Traecheal Mite, >I am new to Beekeeping and my location is in the North west of England. >Kind regards. >Alan. Dear Alan, My advice on this one would be not to bother. Bees throughout Britain have lived with this mite for many years now and problems of any significance arising from it are now relatively rare. (I am in eastern Scotland) If you have bees raised from any local stock which has been in the area for a few years then it is probably not worth worrying about. If you have a problem with these mites the easiest way to deal with them is probably to requeen from established local stock rather than try to prop up susceptible stock which you would need to do for years to come as the acarine mite is endemic throughout Britain. Hope this helps. Murray -- Murray McGregor ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 22:06:08 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Teresa Garcma Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 28 Jul 1998 to 29 Jul 1998 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Christopher, Very often the recorder is attacked by angry bees even > when they are leaving me alone. Why? Maybe the recorder is black or dark colour. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 19:41:47 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: Re: New Bee seen Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/1/98 6:30:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, john.kriz@snet.net writes: > I saw a "bee" on my bee balm recently I cannot identify. It's about the > length of three bumblebees, but does not seem to have a sectioned body. > It flies like a hummingbird. I think you have seen a hummingbird moth The larvae feed on members of the honeysuckle family Hemaris thyshe ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 14:04:18 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: Trevors questiona bout TM resistance Hi Trevor and All You menioned that the TM resistance in bacterial strains in cows cannot cross to strains in bees. This may be incorrect. Bacteria have an ability to perform so called lateral gene shifts - genes are transferred without actual sexual contact. The way they do this is to pick up chunks of environmental DNA they may find (usually small pieces that have one or two genes on them termed plasmids) which are then kept for a little while. If they do something good, the bacteria lives a bit longer and has more offspring. If they do something bad, it goes into hard times and chews up all excess DNA and gets rid of the bad extra piece. It amy also die ( a bit like succumbing to an irritation heartattack for picking up a computer on the side of the road loaded with Win3.0 and WP5.1 and trying to use it??) So it is feasible for DNA from bacillus species, or any other similar bacteria that evolve a TM resistance gene to be transported back to a beehive in water which had a cowpat in it. This is how many of the worlds pennicillen (sp?) resistant strains of all sorts of bacteria have evolved. Farmers in feedlots in some countries feed this antibiotic to cows to increase among other things milk production (the antibiotic kills of non-beneficial bacteria in the cows gut that were turning good food into bad gas, but leaves the good ones that help break down cellulose and so on). People drink the milk which has some bacteria in it which are resistant. If they are on antibiotics at the time, the strain which is being treated may pick up the resistant plasmid and bang goes another treatment. So hence I would predict that in a few years resistance will arrive. But that is not a problem - a new technique has just been internationally patented which dramatically increases the rate at which industry's can improve their production strains - which should mean world antibiotic prices will tumble. Hence one will be able to use a three treatment punch - should prohibit too much resistance. (at hopefully the same cost) Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis Eastern Cape Prov. South Africa Time = Honey After careful consideration, I have decided that if I am ever a V.I.P the I. may not stand for important. (rather influential, ignorant, idiotic, intelectual, illadvised etc) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 22:16:28 +0900 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: j h & e mcadam Subject: Re: Propolis collection - newbee overview please ... MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Robert McKinnie asks for hints for propolis collection: We have just completed the first year of propolis collection. We have 700 hives with mats which is a joint collection and marketing approach by Kangaroo Island beekeepers. More beekeepers are joining for the next season. We are using the propolis screens manufactured by J & D. Manufacturing (a U.S. company). We did test several screens and selected this as most appropriate. The mats have a grid of wedge shaped holes which the bees fill with propolis pushing it up so that clean propolis appears above the flat upper surface. There has since been a new screen developed in New Zealand but the cost is four times greater and we considered may interfere with honey production - comments from users would be appreciated. All hives have migratory lids but some are plastic and some without ventilation holes. We have found that by inserting a twig (size of match) between top of propolis mat and lip of lid that sufficient light enters to spur the bees to deposit propolis. Production figures are uncertain at this stage because of the failure of the main summer honey flow, causing the bees to retreat to the brood box. When bees are working directly under the propolis mat production was very encouraging and was harvested either by placing the mats in a freezer for 24 hours and then cracking the frozen propolis off or by a thin steel scraper across the top of the mat while still on the hive. It is important that the propolis be frozen before packing to kill insect infestation. Care must be taken to avoid contamination by spider webs, wax or dead bees in the collected product. 90% purity is the maximum rate achievable. Apiaries in the vicinity of pine plantations do well and we also have yacca which has resins. We find considerable variation between production in apiary sites and also genetic lines. I believe the technology of propolis mats has only recently been developed so that reference books will not be of great assistance. On our experience flat lids are suitable if there is light or draughts. Our lids have approximately an inch of space above the top of the frames. If bees have access above the mats they will rob the propolis (presumably depositing it again). Care must be taken that the bees are actually collecting propolis from vegetation. Apparently they have been observed in urban areas harvesting bitumen on hot sticky days from road sides. We look on propolis collection as an additional product which takes very little time and does not interfere with honey production. It is important that the mats be harvested at least once a month during the warm weather since once the holes are plugged the bees will turn to other activities. I am happy to answer individual emails if beekeepers would like further information. Betty McAdam HOG BAY APIARY Penneshaw, Kangaroo Island J.H. & E. McAdam Comments: Authenticated sender is From: aweinert Subject: Reuse of frames attacked by wax moth MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I have 2 frames from a weak colony that has wax moth lines in them. Can these be put into a strong hive for cleaning by the bees or will this only give the lavae more room to move and a feast for later on. Should the frames be destroyed or is there a way to resurrect them? thanks in advance Andrew Weinert Atherton, Tropical North Queensland Australia 17.17 Degrees South, 145.30 Degrees East ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 09:24:36 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Green Subject: Re: New Bee seen Comments: To: john.kriz@snet.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit From: john.kriz@snet.net (John J. Kriz) <> Does it look anthing like this? http://quasimodo.versailles.inra.fr/PHEROLIST/ins/hylesgalli.html Or any of these? http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/distr/lepid/MOTHS/KS/TOC.HTM Or run a search for hawk moth. Maybe....... Dave Green (beekeeper, not an entomologist) www.pollinator.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 15:26:48 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Australian Bee control possibility? Hi All Recently I recieved a catalogue in the post with lots of household/junkmail type products. However inside there were also a few interesting ones. One was an Australian patented pest repellor, that plugs directly into the wall socket. It then uses electricity from the socket to send a low frequency electromagnetic pulse through the house wiring which apparently then drives all cockroaches, rats etc away. The pulse apparently tinkers with the workings of these animals sense of direction amongh other things. Has anybody tried one of these for chasing bees away? This may be of relevance to the recurring bees and power pylons thread? Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis Eastern Cape Prov. South Africa Time = Honey After careful consideration, I have decided that if I am ever a V.I.P the I. may not stand for important. (rather influential, ignorant, idiotic, intelectual, illadvised etc) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 21:49:35 +0100 Reply-To: mpym@hive.netkonect.co.uk Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Madeleine Pym Subject: Sterile drones and varroa treatment? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, Whilst in Gormanston, Ireland, for the FIBKA Summer Course I heard tell of reports of apistan and bayvoral being linked to sterility or reduced fertility in drones. Has anyone seen any 'scientific' evidence to this effect, or know where the source of such reports is coming from as I would like to know if there is any truth to this. Writing in great haste otherwise I would take a little time to tell you how wonderful the Gormanston week was. All I can say is I'm sending my booking off again for next year straight away. I thoroughly recommend for information, but especially the warmth and friendliness of the people, etc. They fair stole my heart away. Hoping it will not take me a whole year before I get it back again. Madeleine Pym. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 08:15:27 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: Tape Recorder/Watch Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Up above the range of human hearing is a signal applied to the tape heads called "bias" so that they will work in a linear range and make the signal proportional to what goes in the mike go on the tape.. I bet this higher than we can hear signal is perceptable to the bees and percieved as a threat. Most non winding watches use an oscillator and circuits to divide the oscillations down to seconds and other fractions of time. This amy also stimulate the bees. Also anything shiny that moves fast is an eyeball- watchbands,crystals and wrists. How better to drive away an invader than to nail it in the eye? Tom in CT ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 17:03:28 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ricky Holden Subject: NEW BEE seen Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit John sounds like you've encountered Smerinthus Cerisyi (Willow Sphinx). A crepuscular creature, They are attracted to the sweet smell of the hive. A moth that is often mistaken for the Hummingbird. I observe a more southern species often in the late evening feeding on star jasmine. Look for sweet smelling blooms late in the evening. Rick the Floridian ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 21:04:49 -0700 Reply-To: gclewis@penn.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Gary C. Lewis" Subject: Another worry. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Bee Folks, I was was watching tv this morning and while "surfing" I came across a piece about bees. There is a beetle that has shown up in Florida that is really doing a job on the hives that it has been found in. It is eating everything in the hive and the hives are dying. The beetle comes from Africa where the "African" bees eat the eggs laid by this beetle. They keep it in check. Our bees however have not learned to eat the eggs so the beetles thrive. This report was about the beetle in Florida but at the end of the short segment. the comentator said that recently the beetle has been found in hives in South Carolina. He also stated what we have all know for awhile now. 90% of all wild honey bees in this country are gone and 60% of the comecial bees are gone. So along with the usual conditions that bee keepers have had for decades along with the "mites" we now have a beetle to contend with. The future of the honey bee does not look good. At this time there doesn't seem to be a way to get rid of the beetle without killing the hive it is in. So either we kill it or the beetle does. Gary C. Lewis Duke Center, Pa. USA. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 19:45:23 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: tomas mozer Subject: Re: Bees and St Johns Wort Comments: To: g95c6713@warthog.ru.ac.za hey garth et al! your post reminded me of a previous posting on this list: Garth had written about using bees to spread beneficial agents. Here is = an example from Australia. I quote from the Australian Bee Journal of December, 1997. "Keith Turnbull Research Institute in Victoria (Australia) is conducting = biological control experiments on the weed, St. John's wort by releasing = a microscopic mite onto the weed. An experimental release of these mites= will take place at Mt. Alexander, near Harcourt (just out of Castlemaine= ) during the last week of November, and the release will be by way of usi= ng honey bees as the vectors. Four hives will be placed in the particula= r area and the mites introduced. The hives will be fitted with pollen = traps and the contents of the traps will be studied under the microscope = to determine the eventual success or otherwise of the exercise." I will let the list know of any further developments. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA anyways... anymore, anyone? _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 21:25:05 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Christopher Slade Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 30 Jul 1998 to 31 Jul 1998 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit My respects to Andy the Great from whom I am learning considerably through this net. I should like to share thoughts on using TM correctly. When I first saw this abbreviation I thought it was referring to Transcendental Meditation but now realise TM in this context means Terramycin, the commercial name of the antibiotic oxytetracycline. Beekeepers are not allowed to use this in the UK. The logic is that TM does not eliminate foul brood, it only masks it. The entire contents of AFB hives are burned in a pit and buried and the hive bodies are scorched with a blow torch. The same applies to EFB in many cases although in recent years treatment by the Bee Diseases Inspector with TM if the infection is very light is permissible. It is interesting that although this chemical is cheaply available in the US most commercial beekeepers destroy all AFB brood comb. Why? Andy notes that bees from different sources share their brood diseases when brought together for pollination contracts. This is our experience too and is one of the reasons I don't play that game. If I did, any honey and money would come back but not the bees or their combs. Andy also notes areas with AFB. In England there are areas which are notorious for EFB. They tend to follow gravel soils in river valleys and a link to a lack of trace elements has been suggested. However, people build houses into cities on poor soil because the land is cheaper. They build roads along the river valleys because it is flatter and easier. Migratory beekeepers use these roads to get to ling heather which also grows on poor soils. AFB, however does not seem particularly to be linked to area in the UK except through contact colonies. Can Andy explain please? As Andy points out no EFB will BE FOUND when colonies are treated with TM. This may be because EFB if present will be suppressed from multiplying to a lethal dose; the lightly affected larva will before pupating void her faeces (crap) around the cell. The faeces will include viable bacteria which will either be transferred to the cell cleaning bees before they become baby feeding bees or will be pasted to the cell wall behind the old cocoon to revive at an opportune time. EFB is not spore forming so will not last for ever but I understand it has a useful 'half-life' . In the meantime the beekeeper will have no idea that the combs are infected and will cheerfully use them to set up a new colony. I have been told by a geneticist, (on this list I think) that resistance is always present. The trick is to avoid selecting for resistance. One reason why AFB is not so frequently found in wild bees may be wax moths which do have their benefits. Andy's penultimate paragraph is his most interesting. He says that TM when fed to NORMAL HEALTHY BEES (my emphasis) with no history of disease will increase the amount of brood over feeding just sugar syrup alone. Why should this be? The obvious answer is that "normal healthy bees" ain't too healthy. Is that right, Andy? It appears to me that unless the beekeeper KNOWS that his bees do not have foul brood s/he must presume that they have it. If TM is used then the beekeeper will not know that the bees do not have foul brood. The beekeeper must therefore be most rigorous in apiary hygiene and comb renewal or one sort of TM will be no more efficacious than the other in eliminating foul brood. Having re - read the above I have just realised the error in my logic. It is not part of the plan of the makers/ sellers of TM to eliminate foul brood, if fact they depend on its survival for part of their daily bread. Sorry if this post is too long. Its 2.15 am and I am too tired and inebriated to be concise. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 09:41:31 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: MSNBC Reports Afro-Bees in LA Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MS NBC Reports "The angry Africanized breed of bees is gradually colonizing Los Angeles County." Is this the truth or more hype by one reporter to sell news to the large population of the LA area? Years ago a report in a national daily said that the dreaded T mite had been found in California bees. It was false but prophetic as within a year T mites had been found in California bees which was no big surprise to any one who has made any effort to study the 3 or is it 4 so called acrine mite pests of bees. The report on angry Afro bees came with the story of a desert beekeeper who had a hive of bees get out of hand after he disturbed them and his response was to flail at the attacking bees with a tree branch which resulted in the bees stinging he and his wife 100 times before he took shelter in his house. I believe this is still an isolated incident and could have happened with any race of bees and has happened in the past. One must be aware that bees at this time of year in that area have always been notorious for being on the tooth but this fact will never be advanced as the fact as his bees in the past have passed the test for having the dreaded AFRO genes which may or may not have anything to do with their aggressive behavior as some would suggest that have experienced keeping bees in this and other similar areas of California, and other So. Western States including Northern Mexico where all bees are aggressive compared to what you would consider the norm. Anyone who has worked bees in some of our more exotic late summer and fall nectar flows here in California knows that there are times when bees are indeed more aggressive and special care must be taken or they will indeed get out of hand and punish the beekeeper and any bystanders, this has nothing to do with their ancestors but is an environmental condition found in doing desert beekeeping all over the US if not the world. Here in California we have been blessed with the diversity of our bees over the last 100 years with bee stock brought into our gene pool in the past from all over the world including African bees from Africa. Some remnants of these population can still be found in secluded areas from boarder to boarder in all shades of breeds not only from Africa, but bees from Greece, the Caucus, Italy, and even Egypt which may still be part of Africa so I have been told. Others will look you in the eye and tell you all of these bees which are mostly but not totally part of our feral population have all been killed by vampire mites. If this was true then its time to open our boarders to new importations because it is apparent that in the past our diverse populations of bees is what contributed to the successful management of all honeybees including their behaviour. The dilution, if you believe, of the bad bee genes may have been dependent on their presence. Some Bee Scientists (BS) must believe today as in the past a few good queens are being tested but as in the past these efforts are so feeble compared to the scope of the problem as to be totally ineffective in solving any problems other then giving a few bee breeders a leg up on value added marketing. This has led to a chemical dependency in the bee industry but so far no one has suggested any chemicals to control the AFRO bees other then those intended to kill them and as no DNA test considers the bees behavior and its impossible to distinguish aggressive bees from non aggressive bees by any know regulatory test in use today then their solution is to make them all dead including the feral stocks that could improve bee behavior. I am sure we will see more stories on bees in our press, and most will not be positive but it is not the time to give up and walk away from keeping bees and in fact it may be the time for grater involvement in keeping bees at least until your bees kill your family pets, kids, and neighbors, God forbid. Then's when I would say we should all bow down before the BS artists that have predicted our bad end, many on our social payroll without providing the solutions we have paid them for, which is what you should expect with the incestuous relationship between science and regulation as practiced here in the American Republic. ttul, the OLd Drone Follow the bee news at: http://beenet.com/bnews.htp (c)Permission is given to copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 14:11:41 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." Subject: Bees in the Media Again Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Bees are in the media again. 1. Beekeeper in Barstow was severely stung by what is thought to be AHB. Claims it was his own fault for not suiting up with protective clothing. Picked up and broadcasted on the evening news. Perhaps this means that the AHB is finally on the move towards Los Angeles. 2. Discovery channel had a short clip on the new threat to beekeeping = "Afro-Beetle" Paul Cronshaw, D.C. Hobbyist Beekeeper Santa Barbara, CA USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 07:05:18 PDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Re: Cockroach electronic repellent In-Reply-To: <199808021329.XAA25680@iccu5.ipswich.gil.com.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Garth wrote > One was an Australian patented pest repellor, that plugs directly > into the wall socket. It then uses electricity from the socket to > send a low frequency electromagnetic pulse through the house wiring > which apparently then drives all cockroaches, rats etc away. The > pulse apparently tinkers with the workings of these animals sense of = > direction amongh other things. > > Has anybody tried one of these for chasing bees away? There was one advertised in Australia that said it had been tested by the= University of Queensland and found to be effective against cockroaches. = Not sure if this is the one you saw, Garth. My wife rang the University= to contact the person who had done the testing and after being transferr= ed from Department to Department, could not find anyone who knew anything= about the testing. We didn't take it any further and I have not seen the advertisement since= . Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 17:02:20 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Roger Flanders Subject: Travel vs. Telescoping Covers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Can someone explain to me what the advantages are of the tin-roofed, telescoping hive cover over the simpler (and far cheaper) "travel" cover? I can see that the sides of the travel cover, with its simple front and back overhanging cleats, sits flush with the sides of the hive bodies/supers hive body sides, making it easier to tie down securely and allowing transport of more side-by-side hives in the same space. Why not just use them all the time? Isn't an inner cover used with either style? Is there some disadvantage to the simpler style I'm not seeing? p.s. to Garth: I've been thinking about your letter last week regarding St. Johns Wort and its possible Prozac effect on bees. After I crush the capsules, do you think it work better to dust the brood frames with the powder, or mix it into a Crisco patty? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 19:31:07 PDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ernest Gregoire Subject: Fall Requeening Questions Comments: To: George W Imirie MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hello George,and Gang, I have read your (George Imirie's) "Cake and eat it too," (both parts) which deals with re-queening in the Spring. In New Hampshire the Spring weather is usually dismal. Cold, Rain, freezing rain, wind, Heavy snow falls, then it gets hot. This is a normal spring here in Canaan,NH.elevation 1100 feet. I plan to re-queen in August around the 15th. My queens are already ordered from Heitkam. I'm trying some Carniolans. I have combined four hives into two. One is very strong and was started from nucs. The other is weak and was started form packages of Italians but is doing OK. The strong colony will easily supply enough honey to over winter both. So Im not at all worried about that. My question to you is this. How should I choreograph my activities regarding, 1. The re-queening, 2. The feeding of menthol, 3. Placing of Aspitan, 4. Feeding Terramicin. Which should I do first and in which order should I do the rest? de AA1IK, Time the accursed enemy of man, cursed by youth for going to slow Ernie Gregoire and by the old for going to fast. R.R. 1, Box 221, South Rd. Beekeeper Canaan, NH. 03741 Fly fisher & tier, Promise Keeper. E-mail address: gregoire@endor.com packet address: AA1IK@WA1WOK.FN43FE.NH.USA.NA ------------------------------------- 08/02/98 19:31:08 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 22:13:01 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Frank Humphrey Subject: Re: Australian Bee control possibility? In-Reply-To: <199808022058.QAA28730@mail4.bellsouth.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Hi All > >The > pulse apparently tinkers with the workings of these animals sense of > direction amongh other things. > > Has anybody tried one of these for chasing bees away? > > This may be of relevance to the recurring bees and power pylons > thread? > > Keep well > > Garth > This is an off shoot of a device that was tried in the military to drive birds out of airplane hangers. The device was marketed in the US for the purposes stated above and found not to work. I tried one when I had some cockroaches in the house and they nested in it. I sent it back for a refund. Frank Humphrey beekeepr@bellsouth.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 03:55:44 +1200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Organization: Bay of Plenty Polytechnic Subject: Reference slides required... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Researchers at New Zealand's HortResearch facility at Ruakura, NZ, require some help from other friendly researchers. If you can help, please contact Heather directly: ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- From: "Heather Haine" Organization: HortResearch,Ruakura,NZ Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 15:03:48 +1200 Subject: Re: Can you help??? Required reference slides for teaching purposes of the following: 1) European foulbrood 2) Varroa jacobsoni 3) Tropilaelaps clareae If possible 3-6 slides of each would be much appreciated. Thank you. Heather Haine HortResearch Ruakura Research Centre East Street Private Bag 3123 Hamilton Ph 07 858 4717 Fax 64 07 858 4704 Email: hhaine@hort.cri.nz ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 22:53:03 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jon C Peacock Subject: Re: Australian Bee control possibility? Greetings Garth, Yes, I purchased one of the low frequency electromagnetic pulse gizmos. I found the sound to very annoying. The outside insect crawled over, under and around it. My resident chipmonk (harmless (cute?) rodent) give it not one moments attention after the first day. My older sister placed one in her barn. The barn rats chewed thru the wire powering the thing. Don't waste your money. Regards Jon C. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 10:34:37 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: Soils which encourage AFB spore formation Hi All Chris mentioned that in some areas it is believed that there is a link between AFB and soil composition. This is entirely possible. A number of bacterial spore types require calcium and other ions to enable them to germinate. A calcium rich soil, and I believe California in places, and the UK over most of it, has such a soil (is there not an aerial line in Calif. where you have one type of vegetation, and then a calcium rich soil and another). In these areas, bees collection water would theoretically imbibe adequate calcium or whaterver mineral is required to cause the spores to leave the resting phase and become virulent. Another factor is that possibly spore formation is inhibited by certain environments. This may explain the 'hotspot' theory. It does not however explain why although when people kept european bees in my country we occasionally had outbreaks of the foulbroods, we hardly ever see them now?? Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis Eastern Cape Prov. South Africa Time = Honey After careful consideration, I have decided that if I am ever a V.I.P the I. may not stand for important. (rather influential, ignorant, idiotic, intelectual, illadvised etc) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 22:32:00 -0400 Reply-To: RTaylor421@lowcountry.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ronald Taylor Organization: Limestone College Subject: Re: Another worry. Comments: To: gclewis@penn.com MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I just received a hive beetle alerrt from Clemson University with information frrrrom Dr. Keith Delaplane. Univerrsity of Georgia. Since therre are no controls he had some cautions when working with the hive beetle. 1. Bee claen around the honey house. Do not leave filled super standing long before extraction. Do not leave cappins exposed for long periods. Beetles build up in stored honey. 2. do not stack or store infested supers onto strong colonies. 3. Be aware the supering colonies, making splits, exchanging combs or use of porter bee escapes can spread or provide room for beetles to become established away from the cluster of protective bees. 4. monitor colonies for hygenic behavior, ie. the ability to actively rid themselves of both larve and adult beetles. 5. experiment with trapping or cultural control measures. it may be possible to trap beetle larve as they attempt to reach soil and pupate. Moving colonies may be advisable to keep a beetle population from building up in a particular apairy. Fire ants may be a beneficial insect in the context if they are found to prey on pupating beetles. 6. bees will normally not clean equipment orr supers full of beetle fermented honey. Bees may finish the job if the beekeepr washes out as much as possible with a high pressure water hose. I have found beetles in 50 strong hives in the south carolina lowcountry. I have found the larve in the ground onder the hives which are on trailors 3 feet off the ground. I think our succes will be to treat the ground and break the life cycle which 38 -81 days to develop with 5 generations per year in southern africa. I remember seeing a post from Garth (of South Africia) to keep hives strong. Some have been present since august 1997 but never confirmed. Ron Taylor, President of South Carolina Beekeeprs, Cottageville SC Gary C Lewis wrote: > > Hello Bee Folks, > I was was watching tv this morning and while "surfing" I came across > a piece about bees. There is a beetle that has shown up in Florida that > is really doing a job on the hives that it has been found in. It is > eating everything in the hive and the hives are dying. > The beetle comes from Africa where the "African" bees eat the eggs > laid by this beetle. They keep it in check. Our bees however have not > learned to eat the eggs so the beetles thrive. > This report was about the beetle in Florida but at the end of the > short segment. the comentator said that recently the beetle has been > found in hives in South Carolina. He also stated what we have all know > for awhile now. 90% of all wild honey bees in this country are gone and > 60% of the comecial bees are gone. > So along with the usual conditions that bee keepers have had for > decades along with the "mites" we now have a beetle to contend with. The > future of the honey bee does not look good. > At this time there doesn't seem to be a way to get rid of the beetle > without killing the hive it is in. So either we kill it or the beetle > does. > > Gary C. Lewis > Duke Center, Pa. > USA. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 12:13:17 GMT+2 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Annelize van der Schyf Organization: NIPB RIETONDALE Subject: Looking for contact in Rochester (MN) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Good day from South Africa I am looking for a contact in Minnesota, preferably in Rochester. I am planning to visit Rochester early September 1998 and would like to visit a beekeeper to see how things get done in Amerika. Any help to get in E-mail contact with a beekeeper who is willing to share his colonies for half a day will be appreciated. Please contact me at: RIETAVDS@PLANT2.AGRIC.ZA Thanking you in advance. Annelize Annelize van der Schyf Agricultural Research Council Tel: +27-012-3293269 Plant Protection Research Institute Fax: +27-012-3293278 Private Bag X134 Pretoria, 0001 South Africa ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 09:34:51 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert Meigs Subject: Re: New Bee seen Comments: To: john.kriz@snet.net In-Reply-To: <1310126271-4853231@expand.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 2:44 PM -0400 8/1/98, John J. Kriz wrote: >I saw a "bee" on my bee balm recently I cannot identify. It's about the >length of three bumblebees, but does not seem to have a sectioned body. >It flies like a hummingbird. The front half of the body is pale >brownish orange. The aft end is an Indian Red, with a stripe of that >brownish orange, then the Indian Red again. The very end of it is >squared off, and seems to look like a lobsteer's tail. > >Any idea what this is?? I saw some insects like this recently on a butterfly bush. Their colors were not the same as you describe, but they did have a squared off tail, like a lobster. They were an olive green in front, and the abdomen was darker, and as I recall, striped. I remember flashes of red and white on the tails. I think they were moths. They had prominent black antennae, which seemed feathery, and the wings, which moved too fast to be seen, seemed to have the general shape of moth wings. They never landed on the flowers, but fed through a long proboscis that may have been half as long as their body. My first impression was that they flew like hummingbirds, but they are much smaller than the ruby-throats, which are the only hummingbirds on the east coast. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 10:13:34 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: Re: New Bee seen Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hummingbird moth Common clearwing Hemaris thyshe They start out reddish but lose a lot of their scales flying. Make sure you show your kids- as common as they are few people seem to notice them. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 09:45:27 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Gauthier Buddy J Subject: Question??? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hello to everyone, I purchased my 1st hive in April and I'm still learning everyday about bees. I'm located in south Louisiana and just recently treated my hive with apistan and terrabrood. My hive is not the strongest hive because of losing the 1st queen that came with the original shipment and a delay in receiving the new queen. She is laying and the pattern she is laying is textbook. Out of the 10 frames in the super, one has nothing but honey and pollen, 2 and a half frames have brood, 1 is being worked on with comb being built and the rest are just foundations. My question is: While I was showing my 11 year old son a frame and examining closely the eggs and the larvae, we noticed in only 5 or 6 cells of pure pollen, little dark brown specks which looked like eggs. Like I stated, they do not appear to be spread out all over the frames, just in one little section. Does anyone have an idea what I'm dealing with? Is there a website of pictures I can scroll through to see if I can find a picture of this? Thanking you in advance, Buddy Gauthier Computer Systems Analyst / Greenhorn Bee Man Cameco Industries, Inc. Thibodaux, LA 70301 Phone: (504)448-0339 Fax: (504)435-4704 Email: T802273@deere.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 08:06:14 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 30 Jul 1998 to 31 Jul 1998 In-Reply-To: <199808030158.SAA06955@mx1.thegrid.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:25 PM 8/1/98 -0400, you wrote: Hi Chris, >It is interesting that although this chemical is cheaply >available in the US most commercial beekeepers destroy all AFB brood comb. >Why? Its a case of the economics of this disease being passed to other hives in the normal comb exchange process necessary with extracting honey and making divides. Also by destroying the hives that come through the TM screen one would guess that they are reducing the chances of real resistance to the disease if you don't consider that some bees may be better able to remove the scale and reduce the disease on their own. >Andy notes that bees from different sources share their brood diseases when >brought together for pollination contracts. This is our experience too and is >one of the reasons I don't play that game. If I did, any honey and money >would come back but not the bees or their combs. I said that but here with AFB I am sure some spores are passed but the main vector for the passing of AFB is the beekeepers himself who for what ever reason does not pick up weak or dead hives with large stores of honey. Honey itself may have few AFB spores but by the action of the bees robbing honey from diseased hives the number of spores can be increased and new infections may/can get beyond the ability of the bees to clean it up. Some or most initial AFB infections can be handled by the bees themselves without loss. But there is also the problem with strains of bees that can not and in hot AFB areas these will identify themselves. >Andy also notes areas with AFB. In England there are areas which are notorious >for EFB. They tend to follow gravel soils in river valleys and a link to a >lack of trace elements has been suggested. However, people build houses into >cities on poor soil because the land is cheaper. They build roads along the >river valleys because it is flatter and easier. Migratory beekeepers use >these roads to get to ling heather which also grows on poor soils. AFB, >however does not seem particularly to be linked to area in the UK except >through contact colonies. Can Andy explain please? I have never seen any connection between different soils, beekeeping areas or forage plants and AFB. I suspect there is none. With EFB it is a different story. EFB may not be what most think it is in that it is a opportunistic pathogen that comes in when other things go wrong including poor bee nutrition. Because of this it can be a problem early in the brood cycle of our bees and if not provided with the prophylactic TM before it appears some damage can be expected. Here there are many areas that over the years have been identified as bad for EFB. These areas have plants in common and are identified by those plants but this does not preclude other causes such as soil or micro climes. >As Andy points out no EFB will BE FOUND when colonies are treated with TM. >In the meantime the beekeeper will have no idea that the combs are infected and will cheerfully >use them to set up a new colony. This is true but there are some things in our bees life we have no control over and if what ever causes a disease is epidemic in bee sites it seems to me it would be better for the bees if they never experienced the disease if it can be avoided. Bee disease can be reduced by not using the same exact locations for bees every year or removing the top soil from an old yard before replacing it with a new yard as many commercial beekeepers do in the west to reduce fire hazard. >I have been told by a geneticist, (on this list I think) that resistance is >always present. The trick is to avoid selecting for resistance. I also believe this to some extent and we in the US are somewhat happy that all new bee problems seem to start in Florida because they have conditions for rearing bees year around so they are the actual site of most resistance to new pests and that's why I have always looked to bee breeders in Florida to get at least a few of the queens that I select for breeders in my own bee operations. >One reason why AFB is not so frequently found in wild bees may be wax moths >which do have their benefits. That would seem to be the case in areas that have these pests but since many areas don't it would not seem to be the whole story. But in any case wax worms do not destroy the spores even when they ingest them so in many bee trees that if the hive died out from AFB the next hive would have much exposure to high levels of AFB spores. >Andy's penultimate paragraph is his most interesting. He says that TM when >fed to NORMAL HEALTHY BEES (my emphasis) with no history of disease will >increase the amount of brood over feeding just sugar syrup alone. Why should >this be? The obvious answer is that "normal healthy bees" ain't too healthy. >Is that right, Andy? This could be one answer but the antibiotic itself could also be supplying a boost. When I first came across this in the literature I believed it to be misleading and only a sugar high but tests in several areas of the world have shown a small advantage to the healthy bees when TM is included in their food. >Having re - read the above I have just realised the error in my logic. It is >not part of the plan of the makers/ sellers of TM to eliminate foul brood, if >fact they depend on its survival for part of their daily bread. You are 100% right Pfizer the manufacture of TM as bad as they have been and they have paid millions out because of their actions in the past is not interested in honeybees which are like a tit on a bore hog as far as their business goes. They would in a wink of a gnats eye discontinue the labeling for bee use if any kind of problem or even if there was a lack of interest by the beekeepers, and this came close to happening in the past. The use of TM is the direct result of trial and error by beekeepers and bee scientists in the past looking for new bee medical agents and the manufacture became interested after the fact and required the outside pressure of the beekeepers to even register it in the first place. Pfizer never went out looking to sell their products to beekeepers. This has been the norm until resent years when the bee industry has began to look like a fat goose by pesticide companies who now are thanks to our bee regulators looking at a captive market for their products. If Pfizer did not want to register TM for bee use there were a dozen other products that could work as good and could have been registered. ttul, the OLd Drone (c)Permission is given to copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 11:48:23 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Midnitebee Subject: new articles MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings.. the following new articles are located at this site http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee/ 1)Let's Buzz the School 2)Making Mead 3)Evaluation of Menthol Herb Holly-B Apiary P.O.Box 26 Wells,Maine 04090-0026 http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 10:28:25 -0700 Reply-To: robert@objectdata.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert MacKimmie Subject: pictures I can scroll through ... Comments: To: GauthierBuddyJ@JDCORP.DEERE.COM Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 4.2mach v148) Here's my vote for a great site -- very useful overall: http://apicultureNE.cas.psu.edu/pest&disease/pppdIndex.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 12:10:36 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: Re: Question??? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/3/98 10:52:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time, GauthierBuddyJ@JDCORP.DEERE.COM writes: > > My question is: While I was showing my 11 year old son a frame and examining > closely the eggs and the larvae, we noticed in only 5 or 6 cells of pure > pollen, little dark brown specks which looked like eggs. Like I stated, they > do not appear to be spread out all over the frames, just in one little > section. Does anyone have an idea what I'm dealing with? Is there a website > of pictures I can scroll through to see if I can find a picture of this? > Pull one out with a toothpick and squish it Is it gummy like proposlis ? Does it squash like an insect egg ? How big is a speck? Bigger than a bee egg? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 19:49:15 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." Subject: Control of Mites/Afro-Beetle by Sterilization Method Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" My yard has a number of fruit trees that are being used by the State of Calif for posting fruit fluy traps. One trap is in an orange tree and the other is in an apricot tree. The State Inspector just came by to inspect the traps. Verdict: Negative for Mediterranean Fruit Fly. She mentioned that MedFly infestation is being controlled by STERILIZATION. She also said that sterilized medflys have been found in SB County, presumably coming up from LA on people transported food. We got talking about the different insect pest problems that the State of Calif is monitoring. There are 5 of which the MedFly has the main attention. Naturally I brought up the topic of Bees and their pests - Varroa and Afro-Beetle. My question: Has STERILIZATION been tried on Varroa or Afro-Beetle as a means of control?? I could just see myself buying a small vial of sterilized mites and dropping them into my hives to mate with the indigenous group. Paul Cronshaw, D.C. Hobbyist Beekeeper Santa Barbara, CA USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 19:21:05 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Paul Walton Subject: Re: Travel vs. Telescoping Covers In-Reply-To: <902110797.1013203.0@uacsc2.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 In article <902110797.1013203.0@uacsc2.albany.edu>, Roger Flanders writes >Can someone explain to me what the advantages are of the tin-roofed, >telescoping hive cover over the simpler (and far cheaper) "travel" cover? >I can see that the sides of the travel cover, with its simple front and >back overhanging cleats, sits flush with the sides of the hive >bodies/supers hive body sides, making it easier to tie down securely and >allowing transport of more side-by-side hives in the same space. Why not >just use them all the time? Isn't an inner cover used with either style? >Is there some disadvantage to the simpler style I'm not seeing? I have never used the travel cover that you describe (the "telescopic" cover is a standard item on hives in the UK) but, I would guess that the advantages are :- better ventilation better stability in strong winds better water-proofing I am sure that there must be other advantages (especially in the British climate) but I can't think of any at the moment. Of course, the disadvantage is that they are far more expensive than a simple wooden travelling roof. -- Paul Walton Bedfordshire, England Paul@adrem.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 02:02:14 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: pierco onepiece and uncappers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi All: I have a new-to-me Kelley uncapper (basicly a mini-Cowan I believe) that I am using for the first time. I am very pleased with it's handling of wooden frames, but it likes to chew up and destroy or clog with pierco one piece plastic frames (because of their flexibility). Would anyone with a longer experience with one of these uncappers have some suggestions on adjustments I could try to remedy this. Thankyou, Stan ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 06:55:36 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Barry Richards Subject: Re: Another worry. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Since the spread from Florida has been documented since the spring, do we have any indication as to whether the beetle can tolerate winters in the Southeast? How does the climate in South Carolina compare to South Africa? -----Original Message----- From: Ronald Taylor To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Date: Monday, August 03, 1998 7:43 AM Subject: Re: Another worry. >I just received a hive beetle alerrt from Clemson University with >information frrrrom Dr. Keith Delaplane. Univerrsity of Georgia. Since >therre are no controls he had some cautions when working with the hive >beetle. >I have found beetles in 50 strong hives in the south carolina >lowcountry. I have found the larve in the ground onder the hives which >are on trailors 3 feet off the ground. I think our succes will be to >treat the ground and break the life cycle which 38 -81 days to develop >with 5 generations per year in southern africa. I remember seeing a >post from Garth (of South Africia) to keep hives strong. Some have been >present since august 1997 but never confirmed. > >Ron Taylor, President of South Carolina Beekeeprs, Cottageville SC ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 09:44:01 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Janko Organization: Department of Biology, University of Ljubljana Subject: Apitherapy Symposium, Invitation, Abstracts before 15th August Comments: To: Apitherapy List MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------3934B908F50A78AB7C433C39" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------3934B908F50A78AB7C433C39 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Apitherapy friends, As you might know Medex International is going to organize the International Apitherapy symposium in Portoroz, September 17-19th. If you haven't been informed jet about the Symposium, you can get more information in this message and at the url location: http://www.uni-lj.si/~bfbee/apitherapy/index.html We have already over 50 very interesting abstracts, which insures good quality of the Symposium. Since we are going to process final program after 15th August, you have still a chance to send us an abstract for active participation. Don't forget to register and pay symbolic registration fee. If you know someone who would like to participate with oral presentation, poster or exhibition, please forward him our address. Anyone can also contact me by e-mail for more information: janko.bozic@uni-lj.si If you have already contacted us, please ignore this message. You can also send your abstract and/or registration by e-mail. Your active participation is welcome at our Symposium. I will accept any abstract and forward it to Scientific committee if an abstract will be sent by e-mail before 15th of August. Otherwise please send it to the Medex International. Don't forget to include with the message also your snail mail address that organizer can send you answer and some more informational materials with regular mail. Non active visitors are also very welcome to the symposium. There will be many interesting oral presentation, poster exhibition, different apitherapy products exhibition, and bee related cultural exhibition and events. There will be also several social events. Detailed scientific, exhibition, social and cultural program will be posted to the end of August. Check our Web page http://www.uni-lj.si/~bfbee/apitherapy/index.html for new updates. Thank you for your attention and participation ! member of organizing committee Janko Bozic ========================= 8th International Symposium on Apitherapy MEDEX International d.d. Linhartova 49a 1000 Ljubljana Slovenia Tel.: +386 61 175 75 00 Fax.: +386 61 175 75 22 email: janko.bozic@uni-lj.si http://www.uni-lj.si/~bfbee/apitherapy ============== --------------3934B908F50A78AB7C433C39 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Bozic, Janko Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Janko Bozic n: Bozic;Janko org: Department of Biology, University of Ljubljana adr: BF-Department of Biology;;Vecna pot 111;Ljubljana;;1000;SLOVENIA email;internet: janko.bozic@uni-lj.si title: Behavioral and Physiology of Honeybees tel;work: 386(61)12-333-88 tel;fax: 386(61)273-390 x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard --------------3934B908F50A78AB7C433C39-- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 07:16:45 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Sterilization for control MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT > Has STERILIZATION been tried on Varroa or Afro-Beetle as a means of > control?? Not that I know of. There is however a free varroa condom program at most high schools! Aaron Morris - thinking I get up too early! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 06:33:57 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Barry Richards Subject: Re: Another worry. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Since the spread from Florida has been documented since the spring, do we have any indication as to whether the beetle can tolerate winters in the Southeast? How does the climate in South Carolina compare to South Africa? -----Original Message----- From: Ronald Taylor To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Date: Monday, August 03, 1998 7:43 AM Subject: Re: Another worry. >I just received a hive beetle alerrt from Clemson University with >information frrrrom Dr. Keith Delaplane. Univerrsity of Georgia. Since >therre are no controls he had some cautions when working with the hive >beetle. > >I have found beetles in 50 strong hives in the south carolina >lowcountry. I have found the larve in the ground onder the hives which >are on trailors 3 feet off the ground. I think our succes will be to >treat the ground and break the life cycle which 38 -81 days to develop >with 5 generations per year in southern africa. I remember seeing a >post from Garth (of South Africia) to keep hives strong. Some have been >present since august 1997 but never confirmed. > >Ron Taylor, President of South Carolina Beekeeprs, Cottageville SC ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 07:31:28 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Gauthier Buddy J Subject: Question? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I will do that. Thanks for the help, Thomas. As for as the speck, it smaller than a bee egg. It is about the size of two heads of a pin. P.S. I just received a call from a gentleman named Carl Rieger, who is an ex-bee man. Back in the late '70s, he had a couple hundred hives and was doing quite well until a crop duster got his wires crossed and sprayed orange groves that his bees were pollinating. He lost everything, including the will and desire to stay in the bee business. You might also remember the terrible movie entitled "Killer Bees" filmed in New Orleans featuring the Superdome. Those were his bees. (I still fuss him about doing that movie. I know he did it out of fun and he meant no harm, so I forgive him.) Anyway, he heard that I got my first hive; he was getting ready to move and asked me if I would like the remainder of his equipment. I told him, "Are you kidding??!!??" I'm leaving in 30 minutes to see what he has. I'm taking it all. Just sharing this, since I can not contribute technically, yet. Buddy Suggestion was: Pull one out with a toothpick and squish it Is it gummy like proposlis ? Does it squash like an insect egg ? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 09:23:42 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rod Billett Subject: Re: Another worry. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii <<<< Barry richards wrote ... Since the spread from Florida has been documented since the spring, do we have any indication as to whether the beetle can tolerate winters in the Southeast? How does the climate in South Carolina compare to South Africa? >>>> Barry, Unless the infested hives discovered in SC were overwintered in Florida (an I have heard nothing stating that to be so) I think it is safe to presume that the Afro-Beetles over wintered in SC last year. Although we had a mild winter, we did have some cold snaps that could have proven fatal. In talking with Garth from South Africa, he stated that the climate of the midlands and low-country of South Carolina are similar to that of South Africa. Also, It has been stated that the Hive beetle is able to survive periods of cold weather by living within the brood cluster of the bees, therefore, a beetle (or group of them) could overwinter quite easily in the SC climate. Rod Billett Lexington, South Carolina, USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 09:30:58 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Lipscomb, Al" Subject: Control of mites by Sterilization Method MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I am not sure about this but I belive that the male Varrola mite never leaves the cell he is born in. If that were the case then Sterilization would not be possible. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 10:26:41 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Control of mites by Sterilization MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Al Lipscomb wrote: " ... I belive that the male Varrola mite never leaves the cell he is born in." I had not thought about this until Al's posting, but he is correct. The male varroa mite hatches, mates with his sisters and dies in the cell, never emerging. So there is no room for control of varroa mites by sterilization. This also explains why the free condom method isn't working. Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 16:38:09 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Emily M. Pruyn" Subject: Re: More on "Using TM Correctly" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 02:08 PM 7/31/98 -0700, Andy wrote: >Of all the drugs or antibiotics tested or used with bees we have been very >fortunate in the choice of TM because it works, its been cheep, has caused >beekeepers few problems, and when fed to normal healthy hives with no >history of disease will increase the amount of brood over feeding just >sugar syrup alone. One question.......Can I feed TM and Fumidil-B at the same time in the same sugar syrup? This certainly would make things easier. Emily in Massachusetts Emily M. Pruyn emlake@aerodyne.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 21:08:42 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Beenetuk1 Organization: Amigabee computer networking for beekeepers Subject: London National honey show 1,000s of reasons for being at the 67th National Honey Show. Trophies and Cash Prizes Ingenious Inventions Stunning Displays Lots of Lectures Famous Faces Top Traders The Best of Friends Show your Best Honey to the World at the Best Honey Show in the World. 26th, 27th & 28th November 1998 at Kensington Town Hall London UK Full details from Revd. F Capener, 1 Baldric Road, Folkestone CT20 2NR Tel & fax. 01303 254 579 (26p C5 sae welcome) E-mail: nathon@zbee.com Registered Charity 233656 -!- ! Origin: Bromley Beekeeping in the 21st Century (240:244/118) STEVEN TURNER G6LPF Beekeeper/gardener Sysop of ZBeeNet BBS. http://www.beeman.dircon.co.uk/ Email: beeman@zbee.com .. Platinum Xpress & Wildcat!..... Nice!!!! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 16:44:53 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: More on "Using TM Correctly" In-Reply-To: <199808042157.OAA00230@mx1.thegrid.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 04:38 PM 8/4/98 -0400, you wrote: >At 02:08 PM 7/31/98 -0700, Andy wrote: >One question.......Can I feed TM and Fumidil-B at the same time in the same >sugar syrup? This certainly would make things easier. Hi Emily, I too was worried about this early on and so at the time I just called the then manufacturer of FD-B, Abbot in Chicago and by accident a long friendship developed with the actual hands on scientist who made the product for years. It was made during one time of year and was what you would call a batch processed chemical. Manufacturing quality control was the only thing going for this product as no test has be developed after manufacture to see if what you are buying is any good at all. Anyway he told me there should be no problem as long as the FD-B was fully dissolved by its self and the added to the TM. FD-B should also be refrigerated for storage in the original air tight containers and both TM and FD-B should not be used if they show signs of heat or moisture damage, they change color when damaged. Hope that helps, ttul, Andy- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 21:04:12 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: US HONEY TAX CHANGES Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From andy.nachbaur@calwest.net Tue Aug 04 20:52:26 1998 Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: US Honey Tax Changes From: andy.nachbaur@calwest.net (Andy Nachbaur) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 03:52:26 GMT AMS News Release Release No. AMS-211-98 Carol Blake (202) 720-8998 cblake@usda.gov Billy Cox (202) 720-8998 Billy_A_Cox@usda.gov USDA SEEKS PROPOSALS FOR AMENDING HONEY PROMOTION PROGRAM WASHINGTON, July 31, 1998--The U.S. Department of Agriculture is seeking proposals for amendments to the Honey Research, Promotion, and Consumer Information Order. The order is a set of regulations which govern the honey research and promotion program. Amendments to the order are needed as a result of recent changes to the act authorizing the program. Dr. Enrique E. Figueroa, administrator of USDA's Agricultural Marketing Service, a marketing and regulatory agency, said any person affected by the honey program may submit proposals to implement one or more of the amendments to the act. The act was amended on June 23 to: require the National Honey Board to reserve 8 percent of its funds annually for beekeeping and production research; authorize the board to conduct projects -- including developing recommendations for purity standards and a quality assurance regulatory program -- to enhance the image of honey and honey products; add the requirement that 50 percent of the board members be domestic producers; double handler representation on the board by adding two handler members who are also importers; change nomination procedures and eligibility requirements for importers; eliminate the public member position on the board; decrease the producer assessment from 1 cent per pound to 0.75 cents per pound; add an assessment of 0.75 cents per pound on handlers; increase the assessment from 1 cent per pound to 1.5 cents per pound on imports; and change voting requirements for referenda. Once the proposals are received, they will be published in the Federal Register for public comment. Honey producers, handlers, and importers will then vote in a national referendum on whether the amendments should be incorporated into the order. If the amendments are not approved, the assessment would remain at the current rate of 1 cent per pound on both domestic and imported honey. Proposals should include detailed provisions with an explanation of the purpose of each provision. Cross-referenced provisions should refer to the caption or number of the referenced provision. Additional suggestions to further the implementation of the amendments may be sent with the proposals or separately. Proposals and suggestions must be received by Sept. 30. Send them in triplicate to the Research and Promotion Branch, Fruit and Vegetable Programs, AMS, USDA, 1400 Independence Ave., SW, Room 2535-South, Stop 0244, Washington, D.C. 20250-0244, tel. (202) 720-9915, fax (202) 205-2800. http://beenet.com/bnews.htm (c)Permission is given to copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 19:20:53 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: unman Subject: Looking for beekeeper from Poland MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is There any beekeeper from Poland? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 13:55:41 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Oberle Subject: Re: Trevors questiona bout TM resistance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is how many of the >worlds pennicillen (sp?) resistant strains of all sorts of bacteria >have evolved. Farmers in feedlots in some countries feed this >antibiotic to cows to increase among other things milk production I have to answer this one. Dairy farmers are not allowed to sell milk for human comsumption that has been contaminated with antibiotics. It has nothing to do with antibiotic resistant bacteria. It has to do with people drinking contaminated milk who are allergic to antibiotics. This has been in effect since the 1960's. Thanks Michael Oberle NTS1@ix.netcom.com Network Technical Services Inc. Minnesota The place where absolutely nothing is allowed. -----Original Message----- From: Garth To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Date: Sunday, August 02, 1998 3:52 PM Subject: Re: Trevors questiona bout TM resistance >Hi Trevor and All > >You menioned that the TM resistance in bacterial strains in cows >cannot cross to strains in bees. > >This may be incorrect. Bacteria have an ability to perform so called >lateral gene shifts - genes are transferred without actual sexual >contact. The way they do this is to pick up chunks of environmental >DNA they may find (usually small pieces that have one or two genes on >them termed plasmids) which are then kept for a little while. If they >do something good, the bacteria lives a bit longer and has more >offspring. If they do something bad, it goes into hard times and >chews up all excess DNA and gets rid of the bad extra piece. It amy >also die ( a bit like succumbing to an irritation heartattack for >picking up a computer on the side of the road loaded with Win3.0 and >WP5.1 and trying to use it??) > >So it is feasible for DNA from bacillus species, or any other similar >bacteria that evolve a TM resistance gene to be transported back to a >beehive in water which had a cowpat in it. >(the antibiotic kills of non-beneficial bacteria in the cows gut that >were turning good food into bad gas, but leaves the good ones that >help break down cellulose and so on). People drink the milk which has >some bacteria in it which are resistant. If they are on antibiotics >at the time, the strain which is being treated may pick up the >resistant plasmid and bang goes another treatment. > >So hence I would predict that in a few years resistance will arrive. >But that is not a problem - a new technique has just been >internationally patented which dramatically increases the rate at >which industry's can improve their production strains - which should >mean world antibiotic prices will tumble. Hence one will be able to >use a three treatment punch - should prohibit too much resistance. >(at hopefully the same cost) > >Keep well > >Garth >Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries >Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis >Eastern Cape Prov. >South Africa > >Time = Honey > >After careful consideration, I have decided that if I am ever a V.I.P >the I. may not stand for important. >(rather influential, ignorant, idiotic, intelectual, illadvised etc) > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 07:23:27 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Norman CotÊ" Subject: Re: More on "Using TM Correctly" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Yes, I've been doing it for years. One tablespoon of each to one gallon of syrup. I don't medicate beyond two gallons per hive. Norm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 07:37:36 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." Subject: Another Sterilization ??? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Al Lipscomb wrote: " ... I belive that the male Varrola mite never >leaves the cell he is born in." Aaron Morris replied: >I had not thought about this until Al's posting, but he is correct. The >male varroa mite hatches, mates with his sisters and dies in the cell, >never emerging. So there is no room for control of varroa mites by >sterilization. This also explains why the free condom method isn't >working. OK so the free condom and vasecotomy method will not work on male Varroa since they are protected within the cell. :) Does this mean that all the mites visible on bees or dead on the landing boards from Apistan are female mites? Can we sterilize these with a "tubal ligation" method? Is there a web resource for a explanation of varroa life cycle? Paul Cronshaw, D.C. Hobbyist Beekeeper Santa Barbara, CA USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 10:58:50 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: On-line reference to Varroa jacobsoni life cycle MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Paul C asked for an on-line reference for the Varroa mite life cycle. Go to the Mid-Atlantic Apiculture site http://apicultureNE.cas.psu.edu/ follow the "Honey Bee Parasites, Pests, Predators and Diseases" path and choose "Diagram of Varroa Mite Life Cycle" from the slides set. The Mid-Atlantic site has a plethora of information. Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 16:31:27 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: another worry Comments: To: beerich@BELLSOUTH.NET Hi Barry and All Barry you mentioned that you were worried that the beetles may be able to survive winters in South Carolina. I have talked to Rod about the climate in SC and it seems winter is sort of like a bad winter here, with temperatures similar to areas like the western cape province (where Cape Town is - at the tip of africa), the beetle does however survive much further inland. But it has a helper, where bees can survive, it can. They don't overwinter outside the hives, but rather inside, where I believe they are even fed by the bees. I have watched bees 'licking' beetles in cells. The bees cannot get into the cells to get the beetles out, but they lick them, as they do everything. Often you see the beetle sort of 'licks' back at the proboscis. It think in this way the bees accidentally feed the beetles. Maybe they even use a pheremone to trigger this mistake?? Also, my geuss would be that if large numbers have been found in SC already (as it sounds), they have probably been there one or two seasons. But this is all overhyped. I am sure buckfast and other bees with good african genes will soon adapt to them, and everything will sort itself out. Brother Adam is said to have included african bee lines in his original buckfast concoction to increase among other things cleanliness, so maybe his foresigh will pay of. Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis Eastern Cape Prov. South Africa Time = Honey After careful consideration, I have decided that if I am ever a V.I.P the I. may not stand for important. (rather influential, ignorant, idiotic, intelectual, illadvised etc) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 13:23:31 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Nick The Beeman Subject: Re: Another worry. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/4/98 5:56:22 AM CST, beerich@BELLSOUTH.NET writes: << Since the spread from Florida has been documented since the spring, do we have any indication as to whether the beetle can tolerate winters in the Southeast? How does the climate in South Carolina compare to South Africa? >> Do people up North have less to worry about with the beetle will the ground frezzing in the winter? I live in iowa. Nick ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 13:34:15 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Another thing to worry about (Afro Beetles!) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Dr. Shimanuki spoke at EAS and addressed the latest arrival, Aethina tumida. Basically Shim said it's too soon to tell if and how big Andy's monikered Afro Beetle will be in the US. We simply don't know. Guesstimates can be made based on how the beetle behaves in its indiginous region, but taken out of its original area all beetle bets are off. Assumptions are being made that the problem zone will approximate that of wax moths. Northern regions have wax moth problems but the winter keeps the moth problems in check. It is anticipated that will be the case with beetles also. It may be the case that freezing grounds will kill off the pupal stage of the beetle and the only Northern problem will come from hitch hiking beetles in migratory hives. It is NOT KNOWN if beetles will overwinter in Northern bee clusters. It is the pupal stage of the wax moth that overwinters and it is expected that the pupal stage of the Afro Beetle will die when the ground freezes. Afro beetles MAY just be a curiosity to Northern beekeepers, but the short of it is WE DON'T KNOW AT THIS TIME! Now doesn't this make all you southern beekeepers want to head for the tundra? Aaron Morris - thinking I'd rather shovel snow than beetles! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 14:39:13 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rod Billett Subject: Gambling Beetles & Eskimo Bees (Was: Worrying about beetles) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Aaron - you keep the tundra and I'll keep the red clay and kudzu. Is it too late to change the Varroa condom, vasectomy and tubal Ligation project over to cover the Hive Beetle??? Andy - Your 'Blast a Varroa' is now outdated. ya need to replace it with "Bomb a Beetle": A Hive beetle playing a slot machine. You fly the eskimo bees over the beetle and try to drop snowballs on them! Rod Billett - Gonna start a side business selling Afro-Worms for fish bait. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 14:47:49 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: Bee Forage Northeast USA Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I have shrub in CT the locals call bottlebrush. It has toothed leaves, white flowers on an elongated cluster each with 5 petals It may be a member of the viburnum family but I am not sure. It is in bloom now and is a common wildflower in moist woodlands. Maybe 6ft tall, heavily worked by bees. Any ideas as to it's name. Tom in CT ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 21:46:47 -0400 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Eyre Organization: The Bee Works Subject: Re: Another thing to worry about (Afro Beetles!) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Date sent: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 13:34:15 EDT Send reply to: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Another thing to worry about (Afro Beetles!) To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > beetles also. It may be the case that freezing grounds will kill off the > pupal stage of the beetle and the only Northern problem will come from > hitch hiking beetles in migratory hives. It is NOT KNOWN if beetles will >snip< > curiosity to Northern beekeepers, but the short of it is WE DON'T KNOW > AT THIS TIME! Now doesn't this make all you southern beekeepers want to > head for the tundra? Just one more reason to keep the border between Canada and the U.S.A closed. No doubt that will bring howls of anguish! ******************************************** The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia, ON, Canada.L3V 6H1 Phone- 705-326 7171. Fax 705 325 3461. North American agents. E.H.Thorne(UK)Ltd. Ventilated Hives and Equipment David Eyre... Owner http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks ********************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 20:33:01 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: Another thing to worry about (Afro Beetles!) In-Reply-To: <199808060225.TAA17125@mx1.thegrid.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:46 PM 8/5/98 -0400, you wrote: >Just one more reason to keep the border between Canada and the U.S.A >closed. No doubt that will bring howls of anguish! Is this one of those anguish howls you asked for? Is it boarder really "closed"? You could not prove it by me other then in the spring my neighbors don't have any Canadian beekeepers that they have to pay while training them on which end of the hive tool is up. One thing about them you don't have to teach em how to light a smoker you just have to have good fire insurance on your bee hives and trucks. You could never tell that the boarder was closed from this advantage point judging by the amount of Canadian honey and sometime honey that is not Canadian shipped from Canada that is in our markets, or the nice made in US bee equipment that is helping move bees and extract honey in Canada. As for the marketing of bees and queens it is nice to know that the Canadian beekeeper can pay what they are paying to fly them in from the other side of the world so if the boarder ever does open the US bee breeder can start to make some real money. But you are right keep that boarder closed so if and when you ever need to pasture your bees south of it or want to make some pocket money pollinating crops this side of the boarder you can but you can't take your bees home, that's to bad. It always is nice to know how our brother beekeepers who wanted so much to be US trading partners are happy when a new bee disaster hits their neighbors. Gosh I sure hope the Mexican honey crop is big this year so the price drops to new lows so the Canadian honey producer has to eat their own honey. You know if we could close the US boarder to all honey imports US honey would be hard to find, now that makes sense. In any case I am sure the closing of the boarder which is a one way closure has hurt more Canadian beekeepers then US beekeepers judging from the number of failed bee operations in Canada since it was closed and if that's the way Canadian beekeepers want it then who are we in the US to object. Every bee man should have the right to fail, its the democratic way, and if they can make laws to speed the process up more powder too em. ttul, the OLd Drone for the Killer Bee's & Worm's visit the award winning web site http://beenet.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 07:07:14 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris This message was originally submitted by max.watkins@VITA.DEMON.CO.UK to the BEE-L list at CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU. ------------------ Original message (ID=431FAC) (61 lines) -------------------- Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 14:26:26 +0100 To: mpym@hive.netkonect.co.uk Cc: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU From: Dr Max Watkins Subject: Re: Sterile drones and varroa treatment? Hi Madeline, Apistan has no deleterious effects on honeybees - it's been tested and tried by beekeepers, beekeeping institutes and Universities for many years now. I can't see how it could possibly induce sterility in drones; did the source of this information also report that the treated bees glowed in the dark? Maybe wise to keep the Apistan off the same shelf as the Strontium 90! Or is this a new Bayer product.....? Seriously, if there are any reports I'd like to see them too. Best regards, Max In message <902091721.2011855.0@uacsc2.albany.edu>, Madeleine Pym writes >... >Has anyone seen any 'scientific' evidence to this effect, or know where >the source of such reports is coming from as I would like to know if >there is any truth to this. > -- Dr Max Watkins Vita (Europe) Limited Basingstoke UK ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 16:48:23 -0400 Reply-To: beesbest@mediaone.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Kathy Organization: Red Maple Farm Subject: Re: Bee Forage Northeast USA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tom, It sounds like clethra alnifolia. Sometimes called sweet pepper bush, sometimes summersweet or summersweet clethra, and occasionally bottlebrush. The bees love it and it makes a nice light honey which crystallizes quickly and smoothly for great creamed honey. I doubt what you've seen is a viburnum simply because of the time of year of the bloom, I believe that even the latest varieties of viburnum bloom in early summer. The best picture of clethra I could find quickly is at: http://gardening.com/Encyclopedia/cgi-bin/PlantHitList.asp?FirstHit=Yes&SearchType=Keyword&Keyword=Clethra I hope for your bees sake, clethra is the right answser! Kathy ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 16:53:11 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Midnitebee Subject: Re: Another thing to worry about (Afro Beetles!) Comments: To: beeworks@muskoka.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings!.. life cycle,longevity,control,etc..of the hive beetle located here: http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee Herb Holly-B Apiary P.O.Box 26 Wells,Maine 04090-0026 http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee -----Original Message----- From: David Eyre To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Date: Wednesday, August 05, 1998 10:25 PM ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 19:42:10 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: hales Subject: Fumidil-B Comments: To: LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To all Bee-l members: Could any of you be so kind as to inform me from whom and where (anywhere in the world would do) could Fumidil-B (to combat Nosema) be purchased and at what price (cheaper the better!! - beekeepers are the same all over the world!!). Here in Argentina it used to be marketed by Abbott Laboratories, but they stoped selling it some years ago. If this sort of information is in breach of Bee-l rules and regulations, could you please send directly to me at my Email address. Many thanks in advance for your help, also for all the interesting Emails you all send and share with me. Kindest regards to all from Peter in Argentina. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 20:25:02 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: George W Imirie Subject: Re: Fumidil-B Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Peter: The primary distributor of Fumidil-B is: Mid-Con AgriMarketing 1465 North Winchester Olathe, Kansas 66061-5881 It is GOOD STUFF! George Imirie ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 21:29:43 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard Spiekhout Subject: Re: green house bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Iam so new to this that I have no bees yet. I am in So Centrl Ky and there are no bees being kept in this county and I can find very FEW bees at all. My crops suffer from this and I want to start a couple of hives. I've been lurking here for many weeks and have read all that I can get my hands on but I cannot find anything about greenhouse bees. My greenhouse is not heated until mid Feb but warms up nicely from the sun. It cools at night and gets below freezing at times. Can I winter bees here and move them out in the spring? There are 2 large vents that can be opened to allow access to the outside. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 19:28:41 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: green house bees In-Reply-To: <199808070136.SAA29347@mx1.thegrid.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:29 PM 8/6/98 -0400, you wrote: >Iam so new to this that I have no bees yet. I am in So Centrl Ky and there are >no bees being kept in this county and I can find very FEW bees at all. My Give us a little more info on your area. You might be surprised how close a beekeeper is. >crops suffer from this and I want to start a couple of hives. I've been >lurking here for many weeks and have read all that I can get my hands on but I >cannot find anything about greenhouse bees. My greenhouse is not heated until >mid Feb but warms up nicely from the sun. It cools at night and gets below >freezing at times. Can I winter bees here and move them out in the spring? One of the jobs at least in this area that is very hard on the bees is green house pollination. A lot depends on what crops you are going to have in your green house and how its constructed. If the proper light is not let in the bees will not fly and so on. I am sure those who are doing green house pollination will come to your aid. >There are 2 large vents that can be opened to allow access to the outside. Most of the time the vents are not very good entrances for bees, they may use them to get out but won't come back in. Don't give up it is possible to build your bee hives into the green house so that most of the time when they are not needed they fly in and out via a entrance in the green house wall and when you need them in the green house you close this off and open the entrance to the green house. Its a lot of fun and will cost you as much as $100.00 per hive but they will be your hives and you will have them when you need them and if you get real lucky they will produce some honey and stay alive with little help.. But some luck and experience is needed for sure with all the problems we seem to be having with the bees today. Good Luck, the OLd Drone Los Banos, California ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 21:59:15 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: George W Imirie Subject: Re: green house bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit You will need a LOT MORE than just bees. I suggest you telephone or write to: Dr. Thomas C. Webster Community Research Service Kentucky State University Frankfort, KY 40601 502 227-6351 There are about 20 county bee associations in KY, and the Kentucky State Beekeepers Assn.: James Davis, 371 Caney Church Rd., Stamping Ground, KY 40379 (502) 857-2272. I think you should contact Dr. WEBSTER FIRST! George Imirie - 65 years of beekeeping in Maryland ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 08:33:23 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard Spiekhout Subject: Re: green house bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I think I've been misunderstood here. I want to keep bees in hives for all of the benifits that are derived from bees. The greenhouse has no pollination problem and was only wanting to winter them in the greenhouse. My thinking is that the protected climate would help new colonies get established easier. On sunny days in the winter, I could feed them and when placed outside in the spring, they would have a head start. I see the point of bees not getting back into the greenhouse via vents and it would not bee very hard to modify the greenhouse to have a hive entry on an outside wall. Thanx for the responces Richard ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 09:54:22 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Green Subject: Re: green house bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/7/98 8:38:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time, RASpiek@AOL.COM writes: > I think I've been misunderstood here. I want to keep bees in hives for all > of > the benifits that are derived from bees. The greenhouse has no pollination > problem and was only wanting to winter them in the greenhouse. My thinking > is > that the protected climate would help new colonies get established easier. > On > sunny days in the winter, I could feed them and when placed outside in the > spring, they would have a head start. > I see the point of bees not getting back into the greenhouse via vents and > it > would not bee very hard to modify the greenhouse to have a hive entry on an > outside wall. I don't think this would harm the bees if the greenhouse is unheated, or only heated when it is below freezing. It could help a bit, by giving them a milder environment inside the hive. But, if the greenhouse is heated very much above atmospheric temperature, the metabolic rate of the bees will increase, and they will consume more food. Also, you run the risk of fooling the bees into thinking it is spring, and getting them to fly on days when death is the inevitable result. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html The Pollination Home Page http://www.pollinator.com Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 10:03:33 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rick Hough Subject: Re: green house bees -Reply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Regarding Richard's questions about overwintering bees in a greenhouse: Unless you enjoy hard work and feeding your bees, I would not overwinter them in the greenhouse. Overwintering bees is a balancing act between having enough bees to kick-start the colony in the spring, and having enough stores in the colony so that they don't starve. Too many bees, and they will consume all available stores. Too few bees, and you may not have enough for a strong early spring build-up. Besides, moving colonies in the fall is a pain - those suckers are HEAVY! in the fall. At least they should be. Continuing the thoughts on "sufficient stores", I believe that honeybees do have an optimal "overwintering temperature" based on the following observations: In warm conditions, the bees are more active taking cleansing flights, and just generally moving around more inside the colony. As a result of this increased activity, they consume more honey. In very cold conditions, they need to consume more honey to keep the cluster sufficiently warm. So somewhere in the middle is an ideal temperature. Other factors play into the thermal balance - wind makes the apparent temperature much lower, thus increasing usage of stores. Condensing moisture can be a problem - wet bees have a harder time staying warm. A nice snow pack around a colony provides insulation, and keeps the wind out, and this is an ideal overwintering condition in my area, but we often don't get "enough" snow (I'm fairly close to the ocean, so the winter temps are moderated somewhat as compared to my inland neighbors) Here in New England, I don't know of any beekeepers that overwinter indoors. I personally just leave my colonies out in their yards, being sure there is sufficient ventilation to avoid moisture condensation problems. Some folks in my area wrap their colonies with tar paper to help insulate them, and warm the colony with the winter sun - I don't bother and my colonies seem to get through just fine. For me, the labor of moving the bees in and out doesn't justify the "benefits" of indoor overwintering, especially as I think the benefits are limited given my climate. The real keys to strong spring buildup, in my opinion, is 1) monitor your colonies to make sure they don't starve, 2) prompt the bees into early brood rearing with early feeding of sugar syrup to simulate a nectar flow, and make sure they have enough pollen - natural pollen is best: feed back the pollen you trapped last year. Pollen substitute is, well, a subsitute. It works, but not as well as the real thing. It is easy to overstimulate the bees and get into a swarming situation so make sure you provide enough space for the bees. Once you start feeding, you should continue feeding until natural nectar and pollen sources are available - if you stop feeding, a lot of brood will likely be sacrificed, especially if stores in the colony are low. How much and how early to feed is very dependent on your location, and experience is the best teacher here. Good luck! I hope you found my ramblings useful. Rick Hough, rshough@tasc.com A Bee-L lurker with 50 colonies just NE of Boston, MA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 11:54:14 -0400 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Eyre Organization: The Bee Works Subject: Re: Another thing to worry about (Afro Beetles!) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Date sent: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 20:33:01 -0700 Send reply to: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology < From: Andy Nachbaur < Subject: Re: Another thing to worry about (Afro Beetles!) To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU 7F00,0000,7F00 > Is it boarder really "closed"? You could not prove it by me other then in > the spring my neighbors don't have any Canadian beekeepers that they have > to pay while training them on which end of the hive tool is up. One thing > about them you don't have to teach em how to light a smoker you just have > to have good fire insurance on your bee hives and trucks. > It always is nice to know how our brother beekeepers who wanted so much to > be US trading partners are happy when a new bee disaster hits their > neighbors. Gosh I sure hope the Mexican honey crop is big this year so the > price drops to new lows so the Canadian honey producer has to eat their own My, Oh My, are we feeling a little touchy?! I wrote my original comment without malice and with a little sympathy for the predicament that US bee keepers find themselves in. As to being happy in their misfortune, that's far from truth, we are cognisant of the problem and are more than prepared to offer assistance where possible. Regretfully writings such as these do not encourage us to be helpful, quite the reverse. I certainly did not anticipate nor appreciate the insults to my nationalistic pride that came pouring forth. I would love to debate the economic disaster to us and our economy created by NAFTA, but our moderators would not allow it. Finally I would point out, even with moderation, inflamatory, derogatory insulting remarks still get through and if it continues I can forsee the Bee-L being a party of one, both posing and answering it's own questions. ******************************************** The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia, ON, Canada.L3V 6H1 Phone- 705-326 7171. Fax 705 325 3461. North American agents. E.H.Thorne(UK)Ltd. Ventilated Hives and Equipment David Eyre... Owner http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks ********************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 16:54:30 -0400 Reply-To: vcoppola@froggernet.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: federal law, killing bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone know the fedeal law regarding killing honeybees? I know you cannot spray flowering plants with insecticide but what about killing or destroying colonies? Vince ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 16:20:15 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: My Apology to the Group & Mr. Eyre In-Reply-To: <199808072042.NAA26506@mx1.thegrid.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I certainly did not anticipate nor appreciate the insults to my >nationalistic pride that came pouring forth. Fellow Bee Keepers & Friends, WOW, the pot is calling the kettle black...after posting his total colective thoughts on the subject of RE: "Another thing to worry about..AFRO-Beetles", in which all he had to say was: "Just one more reason to keep the border between Canada and the U.S.A closed. No doubt that will bring howls of anguish!" said David Eyre. Well, maybe we could all think a little more before we post and not make posts knowing very well and admitting in the post that what we were posting could be hurtful to others, especially if we can not take that heat our own posts generate. I gave back to Mr. Eyre what it seemed to me and others he was asking for. His and my post added nothing at all to the subject "AFRO-Beetles", and were at the least gratuitous and now Mr. Eyre in a different voice "howls" to me personally and in this List expressed more of his own brand of "howls of anguish!" He wants it both ways and it just don't work that way. He has a right to express his opinion and I have a right and maybe an obligation to express my own on his if I think he is wrong. Its called social intercourse and has nothing to do with his or my pride or national origins or our citzenship. I hope only that we all have in common being bee keepers or their friends here. >Finally I would point out, even with moderation, inflamatory, derogatory >insulting remarks still get through and if it continues I can forsee the Bee-L >being a party of one, both posing and answering it's own questions. Is Mr. Eyre calling for a vote or just complaining because his original post was not censored? I for one am not going to beg anyone with such a thin skin to do anything they don't want to do. I do not think that my own apology to Mr. Eyre, or my own censorship or removal from this List would make any difference other then reduce the band width used and produce a void but no sucking sounds. I can not speak for Mr. Eyre, an experienced poster, other then to offer some advice to him and others and that is if you find your own words unpalatable don't post them and you won't have to eat them. ttul, the OLd Drone Andy Nachbaur Los Banos, California Love Letters to:andy.nachbaur@calwest.net Hate Mail to:andy.nachbaur@thegrid.net (c)Permission is given to copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK!