========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 20:48:38 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: New Crop of BS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Its a free country and all is fair when it comes to selling "killer" bees to the public. We sell newspapers, BS, (bee science), beekeeper regulation, cheep farm chemicals that may or may not work at inflated prices, and now comes another effort to sell poorly designed bee veils. IMHO. It just boils my blood every time I see fancy bee ads in our bee journals relating honey, or good beekeeping to farm chemicals and I have for a long time felt sold out by these publishers who have played a big part in the hooking of beekeepers on farm chemicals which alone is bad enough but just the sight of a jar of pure honey and a pesticide strip shows how low we have all got to allow that use of the good name of pure honey without beekeeper rebellion. Sure I let my own subscriptions run out but feel I am the loser by doing so and not the publishers as what's one more lost subscription they have been going down for years and they still have the advertising revenues and less publishing costs. Well now its hit me again, some outfit from Roanoke VA, selling bee vails and using the super hyped newspaper story's on the "killer" bees to do it that I have used myself in the Killer Bee & Worm Journal to illustrate the hype being used to sell newspapers and mislead the public on the danger of bee keeping. I guess that's the way it is, but I for one will never buy a bee veil from the "Sting Shield Company", they look like a real rip off anyway, IMHO. If you have not seen their web site here it is, its a good one, I won't mention which part did not function but for up to date bee disaster news and nice maps and graphics give it a hit. Interesting to note that several bee cop sites link here must be they are happy customers or maybe something more sinister: http://www.intrlink.com/users/stingshield/default.html ttul, the OLd Drone Los Banos California For the good bee news plus the bad surf over to: http://beenet.com (c)Permission is given to copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 13:19:50 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: Kiling spores Comments: To: dnbrown@MA.ULTRANET.COM Hi All/DB In response to the question about killing spores: I do, as do many others in our lab, require completely (or close to it) sterile conditions for working with our micro-organisms. To get to this degree of sterility we basically autoclave, and then once something is out of the autoclave we keep it under UV-A for three or so hours to kill anything on the outside that got there between the autoclave and the sterile hood. So - how do you autoclave an extractor. I recently went on tour to a few commercial biotech industries here in SA and they used steam on tap for sterilizing - basically get some form of steam generator and pump as much of it into the extractor for as long as possible - the 105C or so temperatures should denature most spores. Bacillus spores aare tough, so after steaming I would spray the whole interior with a75+% ethanol, let it soak and then put a match to it. On a smooth surface (such as glass and metal) this should kill most things. If it is stainless steel you can probably safely flame it with a cup of more of ethanol - this should raise the whole things temperature past any spores limit. (Just check the bearings are not sealed with a rubber liner.) The bleach will also help - esp if you leave it in sun - this encourages the formation of free radicals which will rip up any spores. Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis Eastern Cape Prov. South Africa Time = Honey After careful consideration, I have decided that if I am ever a V.I.P the I. may not stand for important. (rather influential, ignorant, idiotic, intelectual, illadvised etc) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 13:28:38 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Teaching the bees Hi All I have just got back from showing a TV crew from a local satellite/national channel around the cape bee. We got some great shots and spent hours with the camera's right up close to open frames and after the first hour or so they did as I do and wore no gear - an nobody got stung. anyhow, we wished to get pictures of the bees on a local aloe, aloe speciosa which has a red flower, but the open flowers are white. The bees were not on the aloes, despite the fact I had 20+ hives in the area. So I put some sugar water on a flower and held it in front of the hive. Then once a few bees were on it I took it back to the aloe stand, and withing half an hour all the flowers were covered with bees. The next day the bees were there early working away. So the question is, do bees sometimes need to be 'educated' as to how and where a flow is?? Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis Eastern Cape Prov. South Africa Time = Honey After careful consideration, I have decided that if I am ever a V.I.P the I. may not stand for important. (rather influential, ignorant, idiotic, intelectual, illadvised etc) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 09:54:22 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Overwintering nucs Michael Palmer wished to know how to manage two queen colonies and how to overwinter a nuc. I can t provide any first-hand experience with two queen systems, but I overwinter a lot of nucs. Our temperature lows here are -20F or so, and perhaps -35F with wind chill. On average, I d say we get around two weeks where the nights reach these lows. If you are in an area where temperatures are much lower than this, I suggest wrapping in addition to the method that follows. I overwinter nucs by putting them on top of a regular hive. I remove the outer cover and the inner cover from the regular hive. I also make certain the regular hive has an upper entrance. I use an auger hole, but I know others who just prop up one end of the nuc about < . Be certain that by the end of October the nuc has at least 4 frames blocked out with either honey or sugar syrup. My nuc is in a regular deep and has a 3/8 solid bottom board. (As I recall, wood has an R factor of 2 for every inch of thickness.) I believe, but have not demonstrated, that the nuc gets some heat from the hive cluster below. I know of others who have their nuc in nuc box , that they put inside a deep and put that combination on top of a regular hive. I also know some who use an inner cover with the hole screened on both sides as the bottom of the nuc. As you can probably gather, there are a lot of beekeepers out there overwintering nucs on top of regular hives. I know of one beekeeper in Vermont who overwinters 400 nucs every year in this manner. He sells them in the spring. Lloyd LloydSpear@email.msn.com Owner, Ross Rounds the finest in comb honey production. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 22:46:06 +0100 Reply-To: mpym@hive.netkonect.co.uk Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Madeleine Pym Subject: Re: White-backed bees Comments: To: Leo Walford MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Leo, I am about 100% certain that you will find your bees are working on Indian Balsam (Impatiens Glandulifera). I am also a London beekeeper, and although it is not growing in my immediate area it is growing prolifically out to the west of Londond where my father has his apiaries. I have just come back from a weekend going through his bees with the bee inspector doing the routine check for EFB (all clear thank God) and we were seeing the bees going into all his hives, exactly as you describe. His apiares are near the River Mole and there is balsam everywhere at this time of year. If you don't know it it is a tall plant, about a meter tall, with pink to white 'slipper like' flowers and seed heads that pop when you touch them. If you find it you will see that the pollen is so positioned that the bees get covered with the stuff and can't clean off that particular area which is especially covered. We have noticed over in his colonies this year, a large quantity of deep carnelian red honey that tastes very strong and, I think, rather perfumed in a 'damp basement and josticks' sort of way. The flowers have the same sort of smell en masse, hence our current opinion that it is the balsam. Quite a few beekeepers in the area are also reporting the same sort of thing. A late flow of dark reddish brown honey. We had thought at first it was perhaps heather as it is the right time of year, but our latest thoughts are that it is the balsam. If so it is the first time we have ever seen it in this sort of quantity, ie. supers full of it. But regarding the source of white pollen, that is a yearly occurrence at this time, due to the balsam, and if you find the flowers you will see it for yourself. I would be interested to know if you have the same thing going on where you are. Where are you anyway - what area? Regards, Madeleine Pym ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 22:59:05 -0400 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Eyre Organization: The Bee Works Subject: Re: Creamed Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Date sent: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 14:52:30 EDT Send reply to: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard Spiekhout Subject: Re: Creamed Honey To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > I think that I read that creamed honey was was you made out of honey that had > already granulated thereby making it a salable product. True or false? > Richard False, Creamed honey is made by seeding liquid honey with granulated honey, and creaming it with a creaming tool for two or more weeks until it reaches a cream texture that stays in that same state, i.e. will not go hard again or separate. ******************************************** The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia, ON, Canada.L3V 6H1 Phone- 705-326 7171. Fax 705 325 3461. North American agents. E.H.Thorne(UK)Ltd. Ventilated Hives and Equipment David Eyre... Owner http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks ********************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 08:38:39 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ivan Pechanec Subject: Formic acid gel Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Article from USDA: Anybody have any comments on this? Formic Acid Gel Protects Bees and People By Jill Lee August 19, 1998 Beekeepers could soon have an alternative way to save their hives from varroa mites, pests that are becoming resistant to the standard control, fluvalinate, sold as Apistan. A new treatment--a gel containing formic acid--has been licensed to industry by the USDA's Agricultural Research Service. Apistan-resistant mites have been found in parts of the United States. ARS scientists at the Bee Research Laboratory in Beltsville, Md., developed the formic acid gel and have applied for a patent. In field tests, the formic acid gel killed up to 84 percent of varroa mites and 100 percent of tracheal mites, another bee pest. ARS issued a license Monday to Betterbee, Inc., of Greenwich, N.Y. The company must obtain approval from the Environmental Protection Agency once they develop a product. The formic acid gel could be available to beekeepers next spring. The gel formulation can ease the path to EPA registration because it reduces the risk of exposure to formic acid compared with the formic acid spray used in Europe. The spray is effective, but the highly toxic acid evaporates quickly. This puts bees and beekeepers at risk if spraying is done incorrectly. Also, spraying must be repeated, unlike the gel. The new treatment is composed of formic acid mixed with a food-grade gelling agent and sealed in a small plastic bag. Beekeepers would simply slice open the bag and leave it in the hive. After the acid evaporates, it leaves a harmless residue that won't contaminate the hive or the honey. Varroa mites cause economic losses not only to beekeepers but also to farmers who depend on honey bees to pollinate $10 billion worth of U.S. crops. In California, for example, half a million bee colonies are needed each year to pollinate the almond crop. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Scientific contact: Hachiro Shimanuki, ARS Bee Research Laboratory, Beltsville, Md., phone (301) 504-8975, fax (301) 504-8736, hshimanu@asrr.arsusda.gov. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 17:48:18 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Uniting colonies Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi All I just united a queenless with a queenright colony using the newspaper method. I then began thinking about the best procedure, supposing that the queenless colony had a queen which I could not find, and which I did not wish to survive the uniting process. (I assume that each hive has one brood chamber.) Suppose that two queen excluders were placed between the two brood chambers in addition to the sheet of newspaper. The two excluders would guarantee that the two queens could not make any physical contact. Then, would not the queen in the upper brood chamber be eventually trapped there, once all brood had emerged, and would then either die or could be dispatched by the beekeeper.? I suddenly thought, what of the drones in the upper colony!. I should be grateful for comments or suggestions. Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland e mail cssl@iol.ie Tel + 353 1 289 5269 Fax + 353 1 289 9940 Latitude 53 Degrees 16' North Longitude 6 Degrees 9' West of Greenwich ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 11:07:37 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mark Gosswiller Subject: Fall/Winter management MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Being fairly new to beekeeping I've got a couple of questions: I'm going out to pull off the last of the supers on my hives. I've only got 3 hives. It's all capped over and ready to extract. When I'm done extracting I'm going to put the supers back on the hives to store for the winter. There's two supers on each hive. 1. My question is 'how can I tell if there is going to be enough honey in the hive when winter sets in, here (boise, Idaho) to keep my bees alive? Is there a way you experienced beekeepers can tell? By weight or something? 2. If I need to help them along before we start having freezing weather, Can I feed them warmed up crystalized honey in quart jars through a entrance feeder? 3. Is storing my supers on top the active hives over the winter a good idea? Is this causing too much room for them to keep warm? Thank you for all your help Mark_Gosswiller@bc.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 16:47:39 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Teaching the bees Comments: cc: rwthorp@ucdavis.edu, barthell@aix1.ucok.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Garth Cambray wrote: >I have just got back from showing a TV crew from a local >satellite/national channel around the cape bee. > >We got some great shots and spent hours with the camera's right up >close to open frames and after the first hour or so they did as I do >and wore no gear - and nobody got stung. > >Anyhow, we wished to get pictures of the bees on a local aloe, aloe >speciosa which has a red flower, but the open flowers are white. The >bees were not on the aloes, despite the fact I had 20+ hives in the >area. So I put some sugar water on a flower and held it in front of >the hive. Then once a few bees were on it I took it back to the aloe >stand, and within half an hour all the flowers were covered with >bees. The next day the bees were there early working away. > >So the question is, do bees sometimes need to be 'educated' as to how >and where a flow is?? ********** Yes, bees need to become "educated" to a particular source of nectar. For more information on that topic, see Chap. 7 of our book: Wenner, A.M. and P.H. Wells. 1990. ANATOMY OF A CONTROVERSY: THE QUESTION OF A "LANGUAGE" AMONG BEES." Columbia University Press. In Garth's case, the honey bees they worked with had somehow never discovered the aloe, despite the rich reward awaiting. Of special interest, though, the "sugar water" they used had no odor, because table sugar (sucrose) has a vapor pressure of zero if prepared properly. However, by associating the odor of aloe with a sugar reward, the bees in his colony could then readily find the source of the aloe nectar. Pat Wells and I covered this topic in 1971: Wells, P.H. and A.M. Wenner. The influence of food scent on the behavior of foraging honey bees. PHYSIOLOGICAL ZOOLOGY. 44:191-209. Don't look in any books or reviews for mention of that contribution, because you won't find it. At the time, the topic of odor and foraging behavior of bees was taboo --- the bee "language" dogma prevailed. On a related issue, I have already mailed the first part of a three part series, one that details the importance of odor and the fact that odors can only go downwind, to editor of THE AMERICAN BEE JOURNAL. Hopefully, that review should revive this topic after a nearly three decade dormancy. (Can you imagine? People studying the foraging ecology of honey bee colonies for a half a century and not considering the importance of wind direction?) Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 963-8508 (home phone) 967 Garcia Road (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 *********************************************************************** * "To cling rigidly to familiar ideas is in essence the same as * * blocking the mind from engaging in creative free play." * * * * David Bohm and F. David Peat 1987 * *********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 21:57:05 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: Formic acid gel In-Reply-To: <199808232245.PAA00032@mail.kitsap.lib.wa.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sun, 23 Aug 1998, Ivan Pechanec wrote: > Article from USDA: Anybody have any comments on this? > > Formic Acid Gel Protects Bees and People > By Jill Lee > August 19, 1998 > Apistan-resistant mites have been found in parts of the United States. ARS > scientists at the Bee Research Laboratory in Beltsville, Md., developed the > formic acid gel and have applied for a patent. In field tests, the formic acid > gel killed up to 84 percent of varroa mites and 100 percent of tracheal mites, > another bee pest. > > The gel formulation can ease the path to EPA registration because it reduces > the risk of exposure to formic acid compared with the formic acid spray used > The new treatment is composed of formic acid mixed with a food-grade gelling > agent and sealed in a small plastic bag. Beekeepers would simply slice open > the bag and leave it in the hive. After the acid evaporates, it leaves a > harmless residue that won't contaminate the hive or the honey. > Hello All and the USDA I have some questions. 1. What research and studies have been done to prove out no negative affect on pheromone inhibitory of workers. Larva and pupae pheromones suppress the developement of worker ovaries.How does Formia acid at a much higher level than normal affect the larva and pupea pheromones? 2.What % decrease can we expect in the Queen pheromone control of the hive with a high level of formic acid vapor in the hive? 3. Is there any increase in supersedure of the queen with the presence of formic acid gel in the hive? I know of some real potential problems with using the strongest organic acid that we know of, with an enviornment of much weaker organic acids (all known pheromones are weak organic acids). It may not have a great affect on the hive. I would like to know what tests have been done and what was the results. I would like to commend the USDA in coming up with the gel to help us control Varroa.The control is needed. We also need a long range solution for the mite without the use of chemicals.The public will not have the same view of pure Honey , if we keep putting chemicals into the hive. It makes no difference how safe we tell them it is, they are all learning through hard knocks, not to belive everything they read and hear.We need to keep our bees alive and our honey clean.By the way, Formic acid is already in the hive in low levels, so its probibly not a problem to use it after the honey has been removed. Now off the soap Box. Best Regards Roy ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 08:46:50 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ivan Pechanec Subject: Sunflowers --- and Bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit From our friends at the USDA. I had not heard about this before. Any comments? For Tiptop Bee Health, Not All Pollens Are Created Equal By Marcia Wood June 8, 1998 Hardworking honey bees might need the farmer's help to get a varied diet containing all the proteins, vitamins, minerals, fats and carbohydrates necessary for good bee health. Nectar supplies carbohydrates, or sugars. Pollen supplies everything else. But sunflower pollen, one of the familiar honey bee's favorite foods, doesn't provide enough protein, according to tests by Agricultural Research Service scientists. High crop yields depend on having healthy, effective pollinators, but bees that work only in sunflower fields are likely to become undernourished. As they lose strength, they may not do a good job in that crop or in other crops they are "hired" to pollinate later on. Sunflower growers can help bees get the mix of nutrients they need by planting small areas of other crops such as canola, also known as rape, near sunflower fields. Or they can let weeds and wildflowers grow along field edges, beside ditches or among rock outcroppings. Honey bees that pollinate only one greenhouse crop run a similar risk of nutrient deficiency. As a preventive measure, beekeepers can place protein supplements or high-protein pollen patties in the hive. ARS scientists fed sunflower, sesame and canola pollen to about 125 European honeybees housed in indoor cages at the Carl Hayden Bee Research Center in Tucson, Ariz. Bees fed canola pollen lived 48 to 65 percent longer than those fed sesame or sunflower pollens. Justin O. Schmidt, in charge of the study, chose those crops because their planted acreages are increasing. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 11:24:26 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Leo Walford Subject: Another question Fellow BEE-Lers Following the excellent response on my question about white-backed bees, I have another question about the same colony. They had been left alone for a few weeks, building up stores rapidly (though of course we didn't know this until we looked in the hive). The hive is a WBC, so it has separate outer walls outside the brood box and supers. The bees had basically built a very large amount of comb hanging from the roof of the outer box (i.e. above the top super's cover board). In principle, because of the queen excluder, this comb should only have contained honey. We took this roof off, and using various bits of WBC box made a hive that, in principle, the bees on this comb could leave but not re-enter - the idea being for them to take some of it back into their "official" hive and store it in supers and that we could then use the rest for cut-comb (it's beautiful stuff). However, nearly a week later the bees showed no sign of leaving - if anything there are more of them in there. 1. Is it possible that there is a queen in this colony, and that her presence means they're not interested in leaving? 2. How do we get them to leave, so that we can get the honey? Any thoughts on this would be much appreciated. Leo _ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 07:39:29 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris This message was originally submitted by buzzybee@CAPITAL.NET to the BEE-L list at CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU. It has been edited to remove HTML formatting. From: "The Huestis" To: Subject: Buckfast bees Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 09:04:40 -0400 Hi, I have been beekeeping for three years now and have twelve hives. I = have been using three banded italian bees and am thinking of changing to = buckfast. Can anyone tell me their opinion about them? Are they a good = breed to use? ect... Clayton Huestis Crown Point, NY ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 07:52:15 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris This message was originally submitted by kim@AIROOT.COM to the BEE-L list at CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU. It has been edited to remove HTML formatting. From: "Kim Flottum, Editor Bee Culture" To: "'Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology'" Subject: RE: Creamed Honey Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 16:14:34 -0400 > Richard Spiekhout[SMTP:RASpiek@AOL.COM] wrote: > > I think that I read that creamed honey was was you made out of honey > that had already granulated thereby making it a salable product. True > or false? Hello, False. Cremed honey is made by adding a small amount (usually about 10% = by weight) of already finely crystalized honey to liquid honey, then = storing it at about 50 degrees F until the entire amount is = crystallized. The 'seed' crystals are added to the liquid, throroughly = mixed in, then the resulting mixture poured into the final sale = container, then left to harden. The secret is to add the best (finest) = crystals you can find, and to have it crystalize at the proper rate - = not too fast, but not too slow. It's an art, with a lot of science = thrown in. Kim Flottum Editor, Bee Culture Magazine 1-800-289-7668 x3214 http://www.airoot.com/beeculture/index.htm ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 07:59:30 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Green Subject: Re: Sunflowers --- and Bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/24/98 7:28:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Jhawkblu@AOL.COM writes: >From our friends at the USDA. I had not heard about this before. Any comments? (snip) > High crop yields depend on having healthy, effective pollinators, but bees > that work only in sunflower fields are likely to become undernourished. As > they lose strength, they may not do a good job in that crop or in other > crops > they are "hired" to pollinate later on. Yes, all pollens are not created equal. Beekeepers who work sourwood (an Appalachian tree), citrus, or cotton, know that bees will reduce brood rearing, and generally run down, due to nutritional deficiencies. Corn and pine pollens are also poor. These are not always gathered by bees, but will be if other pollens are not available. Some pollens seem to be very high quality, at least bees do well. Some I have noted are: dandelion, goldenrod, wild mustard, and any brassica (collards, canola, cabbage). Many of the best pollens are from plants considered weeds, or plants that are not allowed to bloom very often. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html The Pollination Home Page: http://www.pollinator.com Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 08:52:58 EDT Reply-To: jensenw@hq.navfac.navy.mil Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Wade Jensen Subject: Bleach for AFB Sterilization MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii DNBrown wrote: "So the question-will bleach solution (Sodium Hypochloriet) get AFB spores?" In one of my other lives I am a home brewer. One of the things we are cautioned never to do is use bleach on a stainless steel keg because it is highly reactive with the stainless steel. I'm not sure what your extractor is made of, but it is probably galvanized steel, which is steel with a zinc coating. Do not use bleach on the zinc either. Instead, use an iodine solution which can be purchased at a homebrewing store-or if you are in a farming area-in a hardware or feed supply store. In the hog raising industry they use iodine in galvanized buckets to sterilize their boots each time they go from one room to another. However, I do not feel that you are in serious danger of transfering AFB back to your hives in any case, and if you just clean it well with dish washing detergent it will probably be fine. Just my opinion. Wade Jensen Northern Virginia ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 09:18:26 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Swintosky, Michael D." Subject: Krenite S (Dupont) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Can anyone tell me if the above chemical is detrimental in any way to bees? My county road department has hired a contractor for roadside maintenance work. They intend to use the chemical for spot treatments, in lieu of trimming I guess. Below is some info my wife read me over the phone: Brush control agent - treated susceptible limbs fail to grow the next spring Ammonium Salt of Fosamine [Ethyl hydrogen (Aminocarbonyl) phosphonate] 41.5% by wt EPA Reg. No. 352-395 No mention as to effect on insects/bees Supposed to be low environmental impact. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 09:38:36 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Alan Pagliere Subject: Questions from Argentina MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII A couple of days ago, an Argentine beekeeper posted a message here that was rather opaque due to the fact that he was using some prepackaged translation program. Without going into detail, these tend to be pretty bad (just check the "translation service" on AltaVista - it would be hilarious if weren't so useless). In any case, I offered to translate his questions and post them to the list. He replied with the following. I have translated it and hope that I won't have introduced any misunderstandings here, or in my response back to him. Please respond either to this list if you think others might benefit or to me (pagliere@umich.edu) and I will relay the information to him. I imagine too that any web sites with photos and plans would be helpful. In his questions about materials, I suppose some of the recent threads on wood vs. plastic, cedar vs. pine, might be of help. I'm sure there are more issues than I am aware of. Thanks for any help. From cdrigoni@concordia.com.ar Mon Aug 24 08:28:27 1998 Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 07:58:56 -0300 From: Aserradero Federacion To: Alan Pagliere Subject: RE: mensaje en el BEEList Hello Alan, thanks for your response. I'm from Entre Rios, a province to the north of Buenos Aires. [here some information about the current economic situation of Argentine which I asked about] As far as the List goes, I have a several questions for the members. Here are a few: Here in Argentina there is no real standardization in the use of equipment/materials (supers, bottomboards, covers, feeders, nucs). For the most part, what's used are the Langstrom measurements that are used in your country. Questions: a) What measurements are used? b) Is there some norm for standardization? c) What materials are used? There are some engineers here who want to establish standard measurements to be used. Do you (meaning people in the US) have some experience that might be of use? I am associated with another apiculture list; one in spanish. I am a programmer for a company here that manufactures beekeeping equipment. Okay, I've taken enough of your time. I hope you can understand this e-mail and I am available for any questions you may have. So long from Entre Rios, Argentina, Marcelo Confalonieri ------------------------------------------ | Alan Pagliere | | Ann Arbor, MI | | pagliere@umich.edu | | http://www.umich.edu/~pagliere/ | |------------------------------------------| ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 09:55:29 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: Re: Laying Workers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Just examined a hive of laying workers My first observation was that there were wax moth larvae small white wormlike things in the cells. On a closer look this turned out to be 2-3 eggs end to end on the cell walls. This is a hive which no matter what I did would not allow itself to be requeened nor would it raise it's own . I tried queen cage introduction, frames of eggs and brood, nuc and newspaper, all to no avail. In any case laying workers is a lot more obvious once you have seen it up close and personal. When I pull some supers next week the laying worker hive will get broken down and it's full combs of honey will be given to other hives it's bees will be given to the four winds. Tom in CT ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 11:16:46 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Buckfast Clayton, in Crown Point, NY questions use of Buckfast bees. I, for one, am very skeptical about the Weavers' ability to keep their strains free of African influence. My understanding is that they are doing this with their breeders by use of artificial insemination. They are trying to keep their queens for sale free of African influence by flooding the area with Buckfast drones. However, they are not able to eliminate the Africanized bees now endemic to the area, and it seems to me that it is not unlikely that some Africanized drones will mate with Buckfast queens. However, there are now two breeders in Canada offering Buckfast and it is legal to import them into the US. All that said, I have used Buckfast in the past and have found them very gentle, prolific, and excellent honey producers. When Africanized bees were found in Texas I changed to New World Carnolians and am very satisfied. LloydSpear@email.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 09:55:44 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Formic acid gel-Good, Bad or Ugly? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Subject: Re: Formic acid gel >>Article from USDA: Anybody have any comments on this? Hi fellow bee keepers and friends, Why sure I gots a few comments to share with you, sure glad I was asked. >>Formic Acid Gel Protects Bees and People The Good, the Bad, or Ugly? Its good to have another chemical tool to help fight bee pests. Its good that all beekeepers may be able to use this tool. Its good that we may have this tool sooner then later. ------------------ I could end it here and save a lot of band width but I won't----------------- >>Beekeepers could soon have an alternative way to save their hives from varroa >>mites, pests that are becoming resistant to the standard control, fluvalinate, >>sold as Apistan. A new treatment--a gel containing formic acid--has been >>licensed to industry by the USDA's Agricultural Research Service. Its very bad that the USDA is handling the promotion of this product. I am sure there is no conflict of interest or is there? These are the same people who are promoting their own selection of breeder Queen Bees also for sale under license. Is it also ugly that they are the same people who are responsible for introducing the African Bees into the US in another license scheme to increase the pollination efficiency of our bees and then in a reversal have hyped the same bees as being "killer" Africanized bees, or are they now just Egyptian bees that were here all the time? Its the sperm and if its on the dress then someone put it there. African bee sperm was imported and used by the USDA at more then one location in a failed attempt to develop better pollinating bees. I can tell you from hands on experience that some of the daughters produced bee hives that could NOT be managed by man, at least not this bee man, and not a thing was done to keep the genes from being incorporated into the bee breeders gene pool. Heck they were a good color anyway. >>Apistan-resistant mites have been found in parts of the United States. ARS >>scientists at the Bee Research Laboratory in Beltsville, Md., developed the >>formic acid gel and have applied for a patent. In field tests, the formic acid >>gel killed up to 84 percent of varroa mites and 100 percent of tracheal mites, >>another bee pest. Is it ugly or is it just convenient that the same people who are wanting you to buy their licensed product also are the one's who see resistant mites in every bee hive? We have been provided little understanding on how and when to treat to get maximum kill of vampire bee mites or what level of infestation treatment should start. The ugly tracheal mites are a easy excuse for poor beekeeping in areas that have heavy winter die offs, before tracheal mites it was bad weather, poor food, or something else. Using chemicals for this pest is not a good use of capital and will not make any difference if you are lucky enough to get a bad winter, or have poor fall flows or buy cheep sugar adulterated with who knows what. How ugly and how long until a product with only an 84% effective kill rate under the best conditions will produce resistant mites? Will it be too bad if the remaining 16% mites cause hives to die from PMS? Or are they now calling it MLC, (mid-life crisis)? >>ARS issued a license Monday to Betterbee, Inc., of Greenwich, N.Y. The company >>must obtain approval from the Environmental Protection Agency once they >>develop a product. The formic acid gel could be available to beekeepers next >>spring. Betterbee Inc,, who own's them, it would be bad and ugly to find out they had a few partners working for the USDA? Don't they make some soy flower and sugar food product for bees that is sold at exorbitant premiums over the value of the ingredients? Was this not also developed by the USDA or not? How many commercial beekeepers use their products and what do they think of them? >>The gel formulation can ease the path to EPA registration because it reduces >>the risk of exposure to formic acid compared with the formic acid spray used >>in Europe. The spray is effective, but the highly toxic acid evaporates >>quickly. This puts bees and beekeepers at risk if spraying is done >>incorrectly. Also, spraying must be repeated, unlike the gel. Yes for sure the bad, ugly, dumb, stupid, illiterate commercial beekeepers should not be allowed to use formic acid because like using a smoker it may get away from him and burn his bees, home, dog, kids, the state and may ever be the cause of the la Nina. Because he is so dumb he should pay an inflated price for everything he buys makes no never mind he may also be a licensed pest control applicator and bee trusted with using the same farm chemicals we just bombed Khartoum for only having the precursors. >>the bag and leave it in the hive. After the acid evaporates, it leaves a >>harmless residue that won't contaminate the hive or the honey. Right and if you believe this let me sell you some bees that need not human intervention other then harvesting the honey. >>Varroa mites cause economic losses not only to beekeepers but also to farmers >>who depend on honey bees to pollinate $10 billion worth of U.S. crops. In >>California, for example, half a million bee colonies are needed each year to >>pollinate the almond crop. You bet and from the bee science regulatory experts on almond pollination in the USDA who's only contact with almond pollination is the 2000 mile junket to get away from their winter home to visit California and their own library research. And only a half million hives to pollinate 425,000 acres, its no wonder the yield is less this year then last, it was for sure a lack of bees on a crop that requires two or more hives to set a commercial crop or maybe they don't require any. Wonder how the rest of the world that has over 1,000,000 acres of almonds does it with no honey bees or are we to believe that they have healthy robust feral populations that do the job? Ask the USDA almond pollination experts if you want a surprise. >>Scientific contact: Hachiro Shimanuki, ARS Bee Research Laboratory, >>Beltsville, Md., phone (301) 504-8975, fax (301) 504-8736, >>hshimanu@asrr.arsusda.gov. Oh my gosh is this not the same USDA BS that applied the final solution to bees with T mites just a few years back and killed thousands of hives and destroyed the lives of many beekeepers big and small? I think they did develop some new final solutions for bee problems then, a better livings for beekeeper through chemistry and pesticides or is it a slow death? The question is why is it that when the USDA promotes a hobby beekeeper solution to beekeeping problems like this they always are fast to quote commercial beekeeping stats like the value of pollination when not one commercial beekeeper, at least here in California, if not the home of pollination the place that sure has a lot of it on going since the late 40's, can name a USDA Pollination Scientist or has ever seen one? Hell we lose more bees to farm use pesticides, also regulated and approved by the USDA each year, then all the mite damage since day one and you don't see any intervention from the BS group to change this and in fact you must know that in all these years not one hive of USDA bees has ever been publicly acknowledge in any press release or paper as being damage or killed by normal farm pesticide use, its always our hives. Its about time they share their secrets with us as this damage alone or lack of it is worth the total value of the bee industry which has had to replace itself many, many, times because of pesticides. ttul, the OLd Drone http://beenet.com (c)Permission is given to copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 17:25:45 -0400 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: Fall/Winter management MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mark Gosswiller wrote: > Being fairly new to beekeeping I've got a couple of questions: > > 2. If I need to help them along before we start having freezing > weather, Can I feed them warmed up crystalized honey in quart jars > through a entrance feeder? > > 3. Is storing my supers on top the active hives over the winter a > good idea? Is this causing too much room for them to keep warm? I'd like to comment on your questions 2 & 3, if I may. 2. Don't use good honey for winter feed. Use 1:1 sugar syrup instead. It's much cheaper and makes perfectly good feed. In cold weather don't use the entrance feeder. Use zip-lock plastic bags (gallon size), fill 3/4 full and lay them over the top bars, then cut one or a few slits with a razor blade on the top surface, and cover the whole thing with an empty super. It works great! 3. Don't store supers over your hives when you have the mite strips in. Otherwise you can store them over the inner cover, and the bees will not have to warm them. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 14:29:46 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Morris Booton Subject: Re: Buckfast MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All: Would someone post the address and or phone number of the Canada breeders of Buckfast? Thanks In Advance Morris Booton Lloyd Spear wrote: > Clayton, in Crown Point, NY questions use of Buckfast bees. > > I, for one, am very skeptical about the Weavers' ability to keep their > strains free of African influence. > LloydSpear@email.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 07:18:25 +1200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mark Horsnell Subject: beehive sale & purchase contract Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" does anyone have a copy of a beehive sale & purchase agreement they would care to share. i want to buy up to 150 beehives for delivery in a month or so & i would like to do it in a professional manner. thanx & regards, mark ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 18:27:17 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: Canadaian Buckfast Breeders MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Here are the names and numbers of the Buckfast Breeders in Ontario, Canada. Barry Davies 1-613-387-3171 Rick Neilson 1-807-487-2387 Paul Montoux 1-905-768-5530 >Hi All: >Would someone post the address and or phone number of the Canada breeders of >Buckfast? > Thanks In Advance > Morris Booton ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 15:46:05 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: Re: Formic acid gel-Good, Bad or Ugly? In-Reply-To: <199808241853.LAA05364@mail.kitsap.lib.wa.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 24 Aug 1998, Andy Nachbaur wrote: > >Subject: Re: Formic acid gel > >>Article from USDA: Anybody have any comments on this? > > Hi fellow bee keepers and friends, > Why sure I gots a few comments to share with you, sure glad I was asked. > > >>Formic Acid Gel Protects Bees and People > > The Good, the Bad, or Ugly? > > Its good to have another chemical tool to help fight bee pests. > Its good that all beekeepers may be able to use this tool. > Its good that we may have this tool sooner then later. > Its very bad that the USDA is handling the promotion of this product. Hello Andy and Beekeeping Friends, This subject gets me off the wall in a big way.I'm very busy with the bees and honey now, but all beekeepers must turn on some gray matter right now! Ask youself why the USDA want us to use chemicals. The solution is genetics for a long term fix.Anything else is shoveling you know what against the tide. The problem would go away and so would the chemical money. The release of the USDA stock a few years ago was a genetic disaster from the get go.I have had the oppertunity to talk face to face with a Univerity Phd geneticis about the way the stock was handled.It was going to fail and it did.We need to cut loose some of our best brain power in the world on this problem and get it done.The US does not have a corner on the knowlege market. >How ugly and how long until a product with only an 84% effective kill rate > under the best conditions will produce resistant mites? Will it be too bad > if the remaining 16% mites cause hives to die from PMS? Or are they now > calling it MLC, (mid-life crisis)? A very good point. 100% is the only way to beat the mite. I know that first hand. I lost 80 out of 180 last year.Some hives that I lost in Feb , had a mite count of 1 to 2 % in the fall. Sept. > Wonder how the rest of the world that has > over 1,000,000 acres of almonds does it with no honey bees or are we to > believe that they have healthy robust feral populations that do the job? > Ask the USDA almond pollination experts if you want a surprise. This is a surprise that I would like to see here. > Oh my gosh is this not the same USDA BS that applied the final solution to > bees with T mites just a few years back and killed thousands of hives and > destroyed the lives of many beekeepers big and small? I think they did > develop some new final solutions for bee problems then, a better livings > for beekeeper through chemistry and pesticides or is it a slow death? > Stop , look and listen. You don't need gray hair like Andy and I to figure out what is really going on for our supposed good.This is not an radical idea or line of thinking.Its facts that we can all see.We do need to let the USDA know what we want. Not BS.We may need to shake up the ones that are suppose to be looking out for are good , because we elected them to do just that, not get money from the chemical industry for re-election. This is not a political post. It is what we need to do if we really want some change for our good.The mite problem is complex. It has been studied for some time now and we know a lot about the mites biology.Plenty of information has been gathered by different researchers. Now its time to breed around the mite. Nature has the answer , we just need to know where to look. Letting the Fox watch the chicken coop is not smart business.Letting tthe USDA do the beeding program by it self is doing just that. Happy Beekeeping ( Treat for mites now, not later) Best Regards Roy ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 18:56:37 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Christopher Slade Subject: uniting colonies Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Tom, The classic test for queenlessness is challenging a supposedly queenless colony with the means to make a queen, i.e. very young larvae. If they haven't started queen cells within 24 hours they have a queen. Although it is frequently and truely stated that bees do nothing invariably this test is more reliable than most operations that depend on the behavior of bees. Your idea of separating the two brood boxes with queen excluders seems sound but why not take it a stage further and add a super between as well? If there are two queens you can run the hive as a 2 queen system for a while until you decide which queen is best. Put the queen you are certain of in the bottom box. If there is only the one queen the bees may treat the upper brood box as a super as the brood emerges. If you don't want to extract from combs that have been bred in, use the combs of stores for nuclei or for winter stores. Most of my queen excluders have a small slot cut in the rim to act as a drone escape or an upper entrance. If not wanted you can always close it with a wooden wedge or a lump of mud. Regards, Chris ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 19:57:17 -0400 Reply-To: beesbest@mediaone.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Kathy Organization: Red Maple Farm Subject: Re: Buckfast MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Morris Booton; booton@JOBE.NET asked for a way to contact the Buckfast breeders in Canada: Morris, There may be other Buckfast breeders in Canada that I'm not aware of but I do know that the Ontario Bee Breeders Association has members who are breeding both Buckfast and Carniolans that have been being tested & selected for tracheal mite resistance and for hygienic behaviour. Last I heard, they were working toward varroa resistance also. I've heard presentations about OBA's breeding program from Dr. Medhat Nasr (who is the scientist hired by the beekeepers) and was impressed at the sucess of their program. I'm trying some of OBA member, Neill Orr's, Carniolan queens this fall. I don't know who the Buckfast breeders are who are part of the organization and the breeding program, but you can try contacting Dr. Nasr for that info at mnasr@evbhort.uoguelph.ca. Be forewarned that Ontario is colder than most places that bee breeders are, and the Carniolan breeder has shut down for the year so he can have sufficient stock for late spring 1999... The OBA Buckfast breeders may be doing the same. Good Luck to you, Kathy ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 21:50:41 -0700 Reply-To: davapi@kos.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Barry Davies Organization: Davies Apiaries / Barry & Freda Subject: Re: Buckfast MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Morris Booton wrote: > > Hi All: > Would someone post the address and or phone number of the Canada breeders of > Buckfast? > Thanks In Advance > Morris Booton > Hi All: The are 4 Canadians Registered with Buckfast Abbey to use their Trademark and Logo to produce Buckfast Bees as follows Don Amirault 129 Hall Rd. RR # 6 Kingston NS Ph 902 765 8644 Rick Neilson RR #1 Stratton, ON POW 1NO Ph 807 487 2387 Paul Montoux RR 3 1 Hagersville, ON NOA 1HO Ph 905 768 5530 And your truly -- Barry RR#1 Seeleys Bay ON. KOH 2NO Tel. 613 387 3171 Buckfast Queens: Buckfast is the registered trademark of Dart Abbey Enterprises Ltd. used under licence by Barry Davies ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 20:59:51 -0700 Reply-To: beeman@kingston.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Kent Stienburg Subject: Re: Canadian Buckfast MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Everybody, I have reposted this letter with address's and phone numbers. In response to Lloyd Spears email he commented that there are 2 Buckfast breeders in Canada. There are 3 authorized buckfast breeders here in Ontario. There is also to my understanding some in Nova Scotia. To my knowledge they're are no other authorized producers in Canada. It is important if you wish to purchase the Buckfast bee that you get it from an authorized producer. This ensures that you are buying a queen or nuc that has been developed following the selection and breeding procedures laid out by Brother Adam and Dart Abby Enterprises. The authorized beekeepers in Ontario who currently maintain the Buckfast strain are Mr. Barry Davies R.R. #1 Seeleys Bay Ontario KOH 2X0 (613-387-3171), Mr. Paul Montoux R.R #1 Hagersville Ontario NOA 1H0 (905-768-5530) and Mr. Rick Neilson R.R #1 Stratton , Ontario P0W 1N0 (807-487-2387). Like Lloyd I also have Carniolan and I am also happy with them. Kent Stienburg ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 20:11:49 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Roger Sonnenberg Subject: custom extracting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm wondering what the average cost is for custom extracting. I live in So. Cal. and have about 15 deeps to extract. I assume I would just get it back in 5 gal. buckets. thanks, Roger ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 03:24:18 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Charles Frederic Andros Subject: Re: Buckfast, by Lloyd Spear, and rough handling. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here are a few comments: I tested some of Roy's Weaver's Buckfast queens by chance. I found a hot one in the bunch, lots of supercedure, and no brood to spare in the spring for nucs. Plenty of late honey, but no early honey. Roy was kind enough to provide some replacements for the supercedure problems, but I hear Binford's are better. I have worked for them, in Te= xas and Hawaii, so I believe it. I also use New World Carniolans, and love them. They are better adapt= ed to the early flows of my area, and my nuc business. And, they are easy t= o work with. Enjoy gentle bees while you can! The Africans will be in you= r backyard soon enough! As for the rough handling issue: I have worked bees commercially since 1977, with Roy, Sr., Roy, Jr., Richard, John, and Binford Weaver, Larry Connor and Mel Greenleaf at Gene= tic Systems in FL, Carroll Wharton and Gus Rouse of Kona Queen, and the late Mike Sinclair of HI. I guess I was fortunate to learn from the pros. Ma= ny times, I remember hearing: "Be nice to those bees!" I know that the commercial beekeeper kills many bees every day. I ho= pe most of you try to minimize this. Do you do the following to prevent the deaths of our furry feminine friends? 1. Prevent robbing: a. Use burr buckets to contain wax, you'd be amazed how much you accumulate! b. Use drip boards when harvesting. c. Minimize number of colonies open, or cover with screens or whatever. d. Keep bee tight equipment, it saves lots of robbing, stings, a= nd dead bees. Cook in paraffin at 250=B0 in a barrel or vat 15 minutes each= box to prevent rot, like they do in HI, NZ, etc. In termite areas, and for bottom boards/hive stands, soak in a preservative solution and dry before paraffinning. Protect your investment! e. Plan your beekeeping so you don't try to do too much in one d= ay to minimize the time each colony is open. f. Hire sufficient help so you can get through your yards in goo= d time. g. Work with the flows, sometimes one yard is on a flow when oth= ers aren't. 2. Use cool smoke judiciously to keep the edges clear so you can slide boxes back together, starting diagonally. Push bees, don't crush them! 3. Jarring bees to get them out of the way of manipulations does not hur= t them. Rolling and crushing does! 4. Use gentle, productive bees. 5. Stop wearing a veil and beesuit, and see how good a beekeeper you are= ! The bees will let you know when when you are doing a bad job! 6. Be a gentleman, in the beeyard, at home, etc.. Do you see how far yo= u can go with rough handing of your wife and kids and friends and other animals? 7. Slow down and enjoy your life! I keep 41 2-queen colonies in the beautiful Connecticut River Valley!= I just took off a ton of honey wearing shorts and T-shirt. For most of it = I was using a brush, as the menthol-isopropyl solution I use on the fume boards does not work so well on cloudy days. I took a few stings, but I know they are good for my immune system! I love my bees and healthy bee products!! Let it flow, Charles F. Andros Former Apiary Inspector, VT and NH, '78-'89 Producer of honey, pollen, propolis tincture, and candles Presenter of workshops on Apiculture Linden Apiaries/Boulder Wall Gardens 1 McLean Road Walpole, NH 03608-0165 603-756-9056 lindena@sover.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 11:40:28 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: Laying workers - kill them Comments: To: BeeCrofter@AOL.COM Hi Thomas and All Thoms - you mention that you have a hive with laying workers that has resisted requeening. I am of the belief that being alarmist about bee problems is not a good thing, but seeing as there is a slight chance the cape honey bee has been introduced to the states via a shipping problem, it is wise to be on the lookout for cape laying worker syndrome. Unlike other laying workers, a cape honey bee hive can and normally does have laying workers present at all times of year, when the queen is present especially. Hence removal of the queen usually results in increased laying worker activity. If however a queen of a race not used to dealing with this type of behaviour (ie not capensis) is replaced, the laying workers will kill her. A cape queen will be accepted. The cape laying worker trait is also theoretically imortal as it does not require a mating event to pass on - laying workers can produce up to 300 eggs a day collectivelyy. Some of these workers will hatch and fly onwards - they are carbon copy (well their chromosomes have swopped around a bit, but the total of genes is still the same - so they are not clones, but are pretty close) of their mother/sister or whatever she is. Hence there is no genetic dilution of the trait. Cape bees are purported to be active drifters - employing a system of enhanced drifting to go from one hive to another, infecting all hives. Hence throwing the workers to the air will result in the laying workers probably localising on your other hives - I have watched this in my home apiary when destroying laying worker hives - advice suggested on the list was that removing all combs and dumping the workers on the ground a way away would result in only the non-laying workers flying back. Well, the three times I did this there were no bees left on the ground, and the bees that flew back to the hive were slightly fewer in number - but a lot flew back to the hives next to it. So my adivce for the bees would be - 1 tsp sulphur late at night - light it and place it in the entrance and then seal the hive entrance. The S02 will kill the bees and hardly contaminate the frames. Just a thought. Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis Eastern Cape Prov. South Africa Time = Honey After careful consideration, I have decided that if I am ever a V.I.P the I. may not stand for important. (rather influential, ignorant, idiotic, intelectual, illadvised etc) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 12:09:19 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: African bees and America: Beeg Brother Hi All I have enjoyed reading the posts from Andy, Lloyd and Roy dealing with among other things the USDA and African bees. First - if one develops and chemical product one does it to sell it and make money. An example, Zantac, the ulcer 'cure' promoted for many years (invented early 80's) cures a patient for 3 months. This is what the pharm people (who are very similar to the farm pesticide people) call an anuity medication. You come back. A patent on such a medication lasts between 10 and 20 years depending on the country. Hence, as the patent runs out it is good to find that it causes cancer, has lost effect etc and launch a new product. After all, if you held tha patent to the only cure you made lots of money, and could beat the competition finding other cures. In this way one elbows out the competition. A dirty world. If one can get a government to help you, by for instance paying it to ban other treatments etc it helps. (eg India - can only use locally made chemicals if available) As far as the African Bee and Weavers go, I am sure a bee breeder as competant as they are would pick up any africanised behaviour in the bees. A well known african beekeeper, Mike Schmolke in Zimbabwe has over the years bred genuine peaceful pure african honey bees. These hives can be opened without smoke and worked gently in the supers. Brood requires a puff of smoke. They are slighly more aggressive than a euro hive - but are much more productive. If Weavers have a good selection strategy, which they must, it would surmise that their wild mated queens selected for these characterisitcs that do mate with AHB drones will probably eventually yield these better traits. Remember: the Buckfast bee contains I think A.m.monticula - a bee obtained from the highlands of Kenya - if you analyse this bee genetically it is basically AHB that sits on hill tops. If brother Adam could produce a decent strain with AHB, then any other competent beekeeper can too. ( Mike worked with Brother Adam) Beware of Beeg Brother. (In my country we have Beeg Brother too - but a slightly more user friendly one) Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis Eastern Cape Prov. South Africa Time = Honey After careful consideration, I have decided that if I am ever a V.I.P the I. may not stand for important. (rather influential, ignorant, idiotic, intelectual, illadvised etc) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 07:41:40 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris This message was originally submitted by buzzybee@CAPITAL.NET to the BEE-L list at CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU. It has been edited to remove HTML formatting. From: "The Huestis" To: Subject: Nuc's Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 16:30:31 -0400 Hi list, I just read on the list that you can over winter nuc's on top of = another hive. I am using five frame nuc's that have a permenant bottom = from BETTERBEE INC. Can I over winter these nuc's in a barn? Maybe = between bales of hay or wrapped? If this is possible how much honey = stores should they have? And should I check them on that day in February = that is very warm and feed them? I'm asking this because because I want = to raise myown queens and over winter them in nuc's and introduce proven = laying queens in the spring. Clayton Huestis Crown Point, NY ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 07:43:30 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris This message was originally submitted by salbritt@IAMERICA.NET to the BEE-L list at CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU. It has been edited to remove excessive quotes of a previous post. Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 13:41:50 -0500 (CDT) To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Steve Albritton Subject: Re: Buckfast I tried the weaver's packages this year. I did not have good luck. .... > Steven Albritton LDS Communications, Sports America, Chauvin Honey Farms Monroe, Louisiana ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 08:01:47 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: Re: Buckfast, by Lloyd Spear, and rough handling. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/25/98 7:33:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time, lindena@SOVER.NET writes: > I > was using a brush, as the menthol-isopropyl solution I use on the fume > boards does not work so well on cloudy days. I took a few stings, but I > know they are good for my immune system! > I love my bees and healthy bee products!! > Let it flow, > Charles F. Andros > 31 colonies here and all my honey is harvested with a brush. One testy hive gets done all by itself to keep stinging down to tolerable. The other times I get stung is because I wear my old bee coveralls and forget to put rubberbands on the sleeves trapping a few bees. As for burr combs I keep a ziplock bag in my pocket but any plastic bag will do as a bucket gets unwieldy at times and a bag is easy to fold closed. Leave the ladder combs where you want the queen to go and take them out where you want to deter her. Tom in CT ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 09:36:45 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Gel Formic: Good, Bad or Ugly? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Andy Nachbaur wrote: > >>Formic Acid Gel Protects Bees and People > > The Good, the Bad, or Ugly? > > Its good to have another chemical tool to help fight bee pests. > Its good that all beekeepers may be able to use this tool. > Its good that we may have this tool sooner then later. > > --- I could end it here and save a lot of band width but I won't --- That's why we love you Andy! I agree wholeheartedly with your 3 points, it's good to have another tool in our arsenal that all beekeepers may use, sooner than later. > Its very bad that the USDA is handling the promotion of this product. Well, the thing you're missing is that USDA has signed off on promoting/marketing gel formic and have sold the rights to anyone willing to buy them. USDA brought the product as far as they were able and then sold the rights to those willing to market the product. I am not privy to the details of the license agreement nor am I sure if Betterbee is the only interested party, I thought there were others but I am not able to say with assuredness. > How ugly and how long until a product with only an 84% effective kill > rate under the best conditions will produce resistant mites? If we were in the position that gel formic was the only weapon against varroa, the 16% survival rate could lead to formic resistance in varroa mites. However we soon will be in a situation where we have TWO weapons in our arsenal. I do not know, but I doubt highly that the 16% of the mites that survive formic acid will also be resistant to Apistan. A one two punch of formic and Apistan is a much better treatment possibility than Apistan alone. > Betterbee Inc,, who own's them, it would be bad and ugly to find out > they had a few partners working for the USDA? Betterbee Inc, owned and operated by Bob Stevens in Greenwich, NY. I don't know all of Bob's personal business but I doubt highly you'll ever discover "a few partners working for the USDA". I believe his biggest hurdle right now regarding bringing gel formic to the marketplace is dealing with the regulations of shipping a hazardous product to the consumer. And this has always been the problem with formic acid, the fact that it is a hazardous material. There is one segment of the population wanting to use this hazardous material for their benefit while there is another segment of the population bent on protecting those who want to use the product. I don't think it's fair to blame USDA or Betterbee here, I think it's time to flog a few lawyers and the clients who give them their business! > How many commercial beekeepers use their products and what do they > think of them? Well, Bob is a commercial beekeeper, albeit on the smaller side, I believe running about 1000 hives in the Southern Adirondacks, overwintering in Florida. >> ... After the acid evaporates, it leaves a harmless residue that >> won't contaminate the hive or the honey. > > Right and if you believe this let me sell you some bees that need not > human intervention other then harvesting the honey. C'mon Andy, this is a pot shot. Again I don't know, as in I have no PROOF, but my pea brain perceives the potential for hive contamination from formic acid as being FAR LESS than that of a synthetic pyrethrin. > ... Wonder how the rest of the world that has over 1,000,000 acres of > almonds does it with no honey bees ... Ask the USDA almond > pollination experts if you want a surprise. Like Roy, I too would like to hear this surprise. What would it be? > The question is why is it that when the USDA promotes a hobby > beekeeper solution to beekeeping problems like this they always are > fast to quote commercial beekeeping stats ... when not one > commercial beekeeper ... can name a USDA Pollination Scientist or > has ever seen one? Well Andy, you're losing me here; or I'm losing your point. Are you calling the USDA the pawn of hobby beekeepers and the bane of commercial guys or is your point more general, like USDA, who need's 'em? Who are you calling good, bad and ugly? I don't fault USDA for bringing us better weapons to combat varroa, nor do I fault those who are willing to jump through hoops and over hurdles to satisfy all the agencies who demand that a certain product be handled in a certain manner. Indeed I find it offensive that as a beekeeper I cannot be trusted to handle materials which I was allowed to use as a first year chemistry student, but that is the result of many lawsuits brought and won by people who were too clumsy to use products safely and too irresponsible to own the consequences of their own actions. Don't fault USDA, fault the lady who won millions from Mickey Dees because she poured scalding coffee all over her crotch! I mean the nerve of McDonalds, serving HOT coffee. Personally I look forward to having gel formic available as another weapon to combat varroa and I thank the players who have made it so. I'm not thrilled with the higher price gel formic will have, but I won't bite the hand that brings it. I will use gel formic in conjunction with Apistan to help me stay in bees long enough so I will see the day when the breeders have developed a strain of Apis mellifera which can coexist with varroa without the need of beekeeper intervention. Aaron Morris - thinking the hand that feeds me deserves better. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 09:39:47 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Emily M. Pruyn" Subject: Learning curve too steep - Need advice Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I'm Emily, New beekeeper (-haver, at this point?!?) Northwest of Boston, MA. I installed two pkgs of bees this April. Everything has been going well, considering bears and so forth, and my hives are very strong. They have been hanging out all over the front of the hives since July. This past Saturday I pulled off the honey supers, and harvested about 140# of honey... Much more than I ever expected from new hives. The bees were reasonably docile, and no one was looking for trouble. I set my frames up for cut comb honey since I wasn't expecting enough to make extracting worth while. I put the emptied frames outside about 50 - 75 feet away from the hives to let the bees clean them, which they did in just a couple of hours. Sunday, I noticed that the bees were chasing the birds away at the birdfeeders and bird bath. Hot, humid and oppressive weather. Hurricane Bonnie in the south. Monday I went to the hives to put in Apistan strips, and 2:1 syrup laced with Fumidil-B and Teramycin. Smoked and pried up the back edge of the top deep and the bees exploded. Like an underground hornets nest. My husband and I were covered with very angry bees. Needless to say, I resemble the Pillsbury dough boy, as does my husband. I don't think he will help me again......and the bees are currently unmedicated. What did I do wrong? Go into the hives twice in one weekend? Should I have taken the clue when they were chasing the birds? Is it the rapidly falling barometer all weekend that affected them? How do I get the meds on them? The top deep super is too heavy for me to lift (I can barely crack it from the back). I am tempted to just get the 2:1 syrup on the top and wait until early spring for the Apistan, when the population is down, and the top deep isn't so heavy. Please, I need some advice. (If there are any words of encouragement, they would be welcome, too.) Thanks, Emily Emily M. Pruyn emlake@aerodyne.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 13:43:18 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Parker Subject: LAYING WORKERS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii An earlier note today from a fellow subscriber referred to problems associated with requeening a colony which contained laying workers. I encountered similar problems this year with one of my colonies: Through a combination of circumstances and inexperience I managed to lose the queen in the colony. I ordered a replacement from a reputable supplier, but as a result of the poor weather in the UK in June and July, there was a 4 week delay between ordering and delivery of the new queen. I was advised that the colony would be fine in the meantime, so I let them be, inspecting on a couple of occasions. When the new queen arrived (at the end of July), she was introduced to the colony in a queen cage but 8 days later, when the colony was inspected, the queen had left the cage but there was no sign of her or new brood. What I did discover was evidence of laying workers and I can only assume that the queen was killed when she emerged from the cage. I don't know whether the presence of laying workers in a colony would automatically lead to this result (the death of an introduced queen) but what I learned subsequently may help others in similar positions. I was told that the ovarian development in workers (leading to laying workers) is caused by a low level of pheremones given off by BROOD in the colony. If there is no brood, there are no pheremones, so laying workers develop. Therefore, in a queenless hive, one can reduce the likelihood of this occuring by introducing frames of brood from another colony. This may then make the acceptance of a new queen more likely. Certainly this was the case with myself. Following the failed introduction of the new queen, I introduced 2 frames of brood over 2 weeks (one each week). The laying workers stopped laying (although there was still some sealed drone brood) and I successfully united the colony with a 5 frame nuc by the newspaper method. It is possible that the results were coincidental and there may be other explanations, but I can leave others with more experience to comment on that. Regards to all, Bill Parker Hobbyist Beekeeper Buckingham, UK ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 11:30:55 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris This message was originally submitted by Busterb@SNET.NET to the BEE-L list at CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU. It was edited to remove an entire quote of a previous article. ------------------ Original message (ID=1F1602) (79 lines) -------------------- Return-Path: From: "Jeff May" To: "Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology" Subject: Re: Learning curve too steep - Need advice Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 11:16:40 -0400 Were you into the hive without protection?? Sounds like you have been doing a good job so far. Try again, when you give the bees a few puffs of smoke at the entrance and under the inner cover, wait a few minutes before cracking it open...DON'T WAIT TILL SPRING FOR THE STRIPS! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 11:22:10 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris This message was originally submitted by flanders@PROBE.NET to the BEE-L list at CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU. It was edited to remove an entire quote of a previous submission. From: "Roger Flanders" To: "Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology" Subject: Re: Learning curve too steep - Need advice Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 09:55:17 -0500 Emily, I too am a new beekeeper (-haver?) since April, so I can't give you any advice about your bees' defensive reaction. (Other than to wonder, like you, if their behavior was the result of some external factor in the interim...) My reason for writing is to encourage you to keep up the good work. You must be doing a lot of things right to produce 140# of honey off two new hives. We harvested our honey last Sunday (adding Apistan, Fumidil-B and TM immediately after), and our total yield was less than a third of yours. Hang in there! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 13:37:27 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris This message was originally submitted by jgeer@GTE.NET to the BEE-L list at CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU. It was edited to remove the quoting of a previously t, or posted article. ------------------ Original message (ID=0C51E5) (42 lines) -------------------- Subject: Re: custom extracting Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 07:20:27 -1000 Why don't you buy an extractor? Mann Lakes sells a 3 frame extractor for $255. Then you'll know exactly how the honey was processed. aloha jack ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 12:35:46 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Dale Q. Marmaduke" Subject: What are the methods to treate bees with Formic Acid MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Beekeepers, I hear much about the good, bad, ugly, safety, effectiveness for formic acid use. What are the techniques currently being used with Formic Acid. It is mixed with sugar as the grease patties? What are the treatment plans that a professional beekeeper with a mite problem uses? Thanks if you have an answer you can share Dale Marmaduke (five hives in central Indiana with five more on order for next year) dmaramd@iquest.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 14:30:59 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Methods to treate bees with Formic Acid MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Dale Marmaduke queried: > What are the techniques currently being used with Formic Acid (FA). Currently FA is not registered for use in beehives within the United States. Beekeepers from Canada are more likely to be able to offer first hand experience. I have heard differing accounts on the use of FA ranging from squirting it into a hive from a garden sprayer to placing absorbent boards soaked in FA into hives. There are also devices which hold reservoirs of FA and disperse it into the hive via wicks (such as the Nassenheider Evaporator and Popodi device, among others). Some problems with the application methods above are obvious; unknown doses being delivered, uncontrolled evaporation rates of unknown quantities, and varying FA concentrations. Also bear in mind that FA is very caustic, nasty stuff. Rubber gloves and aprons, respirators and eye goggles are always recommended when using FA. This is why so much effort has been expended by the USDA in developing a gel formulation of FA. Attempts have been made to make the gel formulation more user friendly, more controlled in its release within the hive environment and generally less dangerous and more controlled. I was surprised to read Andy's post which called gel FA a hobby beekeeper solution. One of the goals of the gel formulation was to come up with a product that would be financially sound for commercial operations also. Current application practices require repeated trips to apply more FA to a hive whereas the gel formulation may only require a single application. The gel developers kept commercial beekeepers in mind during the development process. Furthermore, FA is not without its drawbacks. Queen supersedure was/is a common problem with uncontrolled release of unknown quantities and concentrations of FA. This is another problem that a more controlled release via a gel formulation may address. Finally a disclaimer. I have never used FA. I am not to be considered an authority on its use or effectiveness. I have followed the developments in its use (much of which has been trial and error by pioneering beekeepers) and I have watched the trials and tribulations of Dr. Shimanuki as he has tried to bring gel FA to the marketplace. I have no vested interest in FA other than it may be a tool for me to use to combat both Varroa and Tracheal mites and I will most likely use it once it is legal to do so. There is a plethora of information regarding FA in the BEE-L archives. Send a single line of mail to: LISTSERV@cnsibm.albany.edu that reads: SEARCH BEE-L "formic acid" Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 14:31:59 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Bozard, Charles Emmett (Mick)" Subject: EXCLUDING QUEENS? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" HELLO FELLOW BEEKEEPS, WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF WERE TO PUT A QUEEN EXCLUDER UNDER THE BROOD BOX AT THE ENTRANCE, PREVENTING THE QUEEN EVER TO LEAVE. ALSO LET'S TAKE IT A STEP FURTHER, WHAT IF YOU WERE RUNNING A TWO QUEENED COLONY AND YOU DID THIS ? INQUIRING MINDS WANT TO KNOW? JUST A THOUGHT WE WERE DISCUSSING AROUND HERE AND THOUGHT WE GET SOME PROFESSIONAL OPIONS. THANKS IN ADVANCE ! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 11:38:07 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: What are the methods to treate bees with Formic Acid In-Reply-To: <199808251739.KAA04258@mx1.thegrid.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:35 PM 8/25/98 -0500, you wrote: Hi Dale, >What are the techniques currently being used with Formic Acid. It is In the US NO use of Formic Acid to control bee pests is permitted at this time. The product that may ask for approval is a single application package of Formic Acid in a gel form. The beekeeper or applicator will have to put the package inside the hive and split or open it to release the fumes. He will then after the recommended period of time return and remove the packaging material and residue. >What are the treatment plans that a professional beekeeper with a mite problem uses? For the use of Formic Acid and its different forms of use outside of the USA I will leave it for those with the experience to say. The possibilities are only limited by ones imagination and local regulations when one can use the real thing which may be sprayed, evaporated in the hive, mixed in a foaming or gel agent, you name it. Is it a considered the valuable tool that some would like you to think it is....I think not? >Thanks if you have an answer you can share For your size operation I would suggest you stay on the righteous path and use whatever is prescribed in your area which for most in the US is the Apistan strips BUT ONLY IF YOU HAVE VARROA MITES! >Dale Marmaduke >(five hives in central Indiana with five more on order for next year) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 15:05:50 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rick Hough Subject: EXCLUDING QUEENS? -Reply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Mick Bozard asks about queen exluders on the bottom of colonies... I would think that the biggest problem with putting a queen excluder below the brood box is that a queen excluder is also a drone excluder - you will soon have a colony loaded with dead drones that the bees are unable to clean out. Also, queen excluders don't work 100% of the time - some virgin queens can fit through, as well as some queens that are ready to depart with a swarm. Why would you want to do this anyhow? What if your queen was killed, and you didn't know about it - the bees may requeen themselves, and then the queen NEEDS to go on her mating flights - if your Q-excluder prevents that, you have just killed your colony. If you are doing it to prevent swarming, there are better ways to do it that are not as injurious to the health of the colony. Rick Hough, rshough@tasc.com 30 minutes NE of Boston, MA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 15:00:16 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Emily and nasty bees Hi Emily, As Roger said, you are doing things right you just had a bad experience. Hang in there! With hindsight, when you harvested the supers you took away an awful lot of hanging around space and really crowded your bees. In addition, you may now be in a period between flows with the goldenrod and aster not yet started. So, you have a lot of bees that are hot and crowded and can t find any work to do! Presumably you first gently put smoke into the front entrance; a few puffs will do. About a minute later, perhaps you lifted up the outer cover and put a few puffs of smoke in there. Then waited another minute (or 30 seconds, it is not critical), took the outer cover off and put a couple of puffs right in the hole of the inner cover. Then, and only then, you pried up the back edge of the top deep and put a couple of puffs between the deeps. Right? If not, try it. Smoke, used properly, is wonderful. I just put on my Apistan strips today. I don t lift the deep, but only tip it up so it is resting on the front on top of the hive body below. Then I insert the strips and put the deep back down. Saves an awful lot of lifting, and the bees don t mind. As Aaron said, put on the strips. While not recommended, you d be far better off to skip the Fumidil and Terra than to skip the strips. Take these lessons in stride, as painful as they are. If beekeeping were easy, it wouldn't t be so wonderful! Lloyd LloydSpear@email.msn.com Owner, Ross Rounds the finest in comb honey production. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 16:06:06 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Formic and mites Dale in Central Indiana wonders about treatments used by commercial beekeepers. Dave, you are fortunate in that Indiana has excellent local and statewide bee club associations. If you haven t joined one or more of these, I suggest you do so. These meetings are a great place to get real hands-on advice, with more practical detail than is feasible by e-mail. In the US, the only approved treatments are Apistan for Varroa and menthol for tracheal mites. Formic acid is not approved, and is considered unlikely to get approved in liquid form. The hope is that the gel form will get approved. (There is another chemical product approved for Varroa, but the manufacturer has withdrawn it from the market.) While not formally approved, patties made from vegetable shortening (Crisco) and sugar are effective against tracheal mites and are widely used. As both ingredients are totally edible, their use seems safe. Now, commercial beekeepers vary all over the lot on what they actually do. Some treat by the book . Others use treatments that are scary! The USDA and presumably the FDA as well, are well aware that treatments are being used that are not approved. To the extent that the treatments are not approved only because they are dangerous to the applicator (i.e., they are not dangerous to the consumer of honey), I can understand the agencies looking the other way. I understand that at most dosages and under most conditions, liquid formic acid falls into this group. And, of course, liquid formic acid is approved and widely used in other countries. However, I believe it is widely known that some commercial beekeepers are using chemicals other than fluvalinate (the active ingredient in Apistan) and still others are applying fluvalinate in manners that have not been approved. It is this latter group that might get all beekeepers in trouble by getting honey on the market that is contaminated . My knowledge of alternative treatments is hearsay, so I won t provide more details. For now, Apistan and sugar/grease patties are largely doing the job . (There is some resistance to Apistan, but so far, it is limited.) Lloyd LloydSpear@email.msn.com Owner, Ross Rounds the finest in comb honey production. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 16:43:29 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: Re: Learning curve too steep - Need advice Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/25/98 9:47:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time, emlake@AERODYNE.COM writes: > I put the emptied frames outside about 50 - 75 feet away from the > hives to let the bees clean them, which they did in just a couple of hours. > After the bees clean the supers of drawn comb and leftover honey and wet cappings they are in a mood to rob and post extra guards. With no flow going on and all them bees in a strong hive I think what you experianced was normal. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 22:03:32 +0100 Reply-To: mpym@hive.netkonect.co.uk Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Madeleine Pym Subject: Re: Learning curve too steep - Need advice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Emily, Congratulations on your first harvest. I wonder if you set up some robbing when you put frames out to clean up. I have been brought up to 'absolutely never' put out frames of any sort for the bees to clean up. Reasons: 1) You can set up a robbing situation. The bees go back home and 'dance' that honey is really close. All the bees pour out. Meanwhile bees from other hives also pour out. They suddenly get a hunger for quick fix freebies and also notice the other hives in a way that they are normally too courteous or sensible to do. So they go in the other hives too, given the chance. After all the bees just 'danced' that the honey is really close by, and the best thing ever, plus it will have tasted pretty good too. You can't blame them it's like opening a 4th story window and throwing out a million dollars. My little experience has been that the bees can get more defensive if they have had some robbing going on, or the attempt at it. Plus, the bees that get into the robbing or following mood seem to stay programmed that way and carry on looking for and giving trouble to all and sundry. It's also the time of year for that sort of trouble too. 2) Another reason not to leave the wet combs out is that you risk spreading diseases from one colony to another. You are best off giving any winter feed just before dark for the same reason that you can otherwise start them robbing. The bees dance that the honey is close by and abundant. Other bees pour out to look and can only find the usual flowers, and... the other colonies. And the next thing you know its war. If you leave it until the end of the day the bees can't get into flying and by the morning they have realised the honey is in the hive not outside. As to what can you do. Do put the feed/treatment on as close to dark as you can. Smoke first - just a little - and leave the hive for at least a couple of minutes. Give them a few puffs of smoke over the top of the frames when you take the lid off as well. Take a water sprayer with you - like you use to spray plants indoors - and if they are very cross and the smoke has not helped then spray the entrance and over the top of the frames with water. Give the bees a good, but gentle wetting. Don't ask me why it works, someone else will have to come up with a theory. It certainly gives them something else to do than fly up off the comb at you. This was a trick I learned in Ireland from a lovely man called Luke Murphy, and I tried it while working on a colony during an exam situation. The bees had already been pulled apart by about 5 or 6 other people before me and the bees were feeling mean. There were virtually no bees on the combs anymore they were all in the air complaining loudly. Smoke was useless and probably irritating too. The result after spraying with water was frames of bees so thick you couldn't see the brood at all. And peace. I've tried it in a couple of other situations since and found it very helpful. Now I always keep my water spray close to hand. Just make sure you don't use one that has any kind of insecticide, etc. in it beforehand. Best of luck and let me know how it goes for you, Madeleine. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 17:02:19 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Al Needham Subject: Re: EXCLUDING QUEENS? On Tue, 25 Aug 1998 14:31:59 -0400 "Bozard, Charles Emmett (Mick)" writes: >HELLO FELLOW BEEKEEPS, >WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF WERE TO PUT A QUEEN EXCLUDER UNDER THE BROOD BOX >AT THE ENTRANCE, PREVENTING THE QUEEN EVER TO LEAVE. For one thing the bees would not be able to swarm with a queen. For another, they would also be unable to replace a queen who either had died or was no longer performing satisfactorily. Naturally, any queen they raised would be unable to make her mating flight. I do not understand why any one would want to do this, but then...??? maybe a commercial beekeeper might want to do it for a very limited time period for one reason or another. Al, <"Mailto: awneedham@juno.com" > Scituate,Massachusetts,USA The Beehive-Educational Honey Bee Site Visit The Beehive Book Shoppe http://www.xensei.com/users/alwine _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 14:14:09 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: AFRO-Worm Update Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Not all BEE NEWS is BAD, just seems that way! After last months, July, reports on the loss of 200 hives from fire and 200 from Afro Worms rains have come to Florida and beekeepers have got to work on the worms. Below is the text from a early release of the Florida Bee & Plant conditions for August with this I quote "Beetles are under control. Beekeepers are taking care of the beetle problem on the ground.". ---------USDA AMS--EARLY RELEASE---(UNAUTHORIZED)------ FLORIDA HONEY REPORT FOR AUGUST 1998 Wet, warm weather continues. Temperatures averaged two degrees above normal. High temperatures were in the 90s and lows in the 70s. This is the most dormant period of the year. Bees are in good shape. Migrating bees are still out of the State, with a few coming back. Most of the bees will be returning in September. Bees are working on various minor flows like cabbage palm in South Florida. In other parts of the State they are working on Spanish needle, pursley (Mexican clover) and other wild flowers. Beetles are under control. Beekeepers are taking care of the beetle problem on the ground. Demand for Florida honey is moderate, at much lower prices. ejh ttul, the OLd Drone http://beenet.com/bnews.htm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 19:48:03 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Christopher Slade Subject: formic acid gel Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit If people mellow with age what was the Old Drone like when he was young and vitriolic? Formic acid can be a very nasty substance but it works well enough. We have had Varroa since 1992 yet beekeepers only a dozen miles from me have used nothing but formic acid to control it and they are still keeping their bees. One of the advantages of formic acid is that it kills mites within capped cells. My friends mentioned above have applied the acid by soaking an absorbant pad with a measured dose which is placed in a perforated plastic bag and put into the hive in a position where the fumes can circulate around the brood nest where the greatest concentration of varroa will be found. The latest method of applying the acid is to suspend a small closed tank of it in the hive from which it evaporates via a pasteboard wick. I tried this last Autumn. I was not scientific enough to count the mite drop but all the hives survived the Winter. When I went to take one evaporator tank out I found that not only had the bees chewed the wick somewhat but they has built some brace comb on it as well. They can't mind it too much. I have never heard of anyone spraying formic acid and wouldn't recommend it. I once got a very slight whiff when refilling a tank and I definitely don't want to again. A weak solution of lactic acid has been sprayed. I don't know the result. Commercial organisations haven't been interested in promoting the use of formic acid because it is so cheap: there's no profit in it for them. If they can turn it into a fancy gel and sell it for ten times the price I can only applaud their enterprise. If a person is competent to fill the tank of his car with petrol (I nearly wrote "fill his car with petrol" which is not what I meant) or to boil a kettle of water to make a pot of tea or to spray the greenfly in his garden or to apply cleaner to her cooker or to drive the said car that person is probably competent to apply formic acid to bee hives. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 22:11:37 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Buckfast, by Lloyd Spear, and rough handling. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Date sent: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 03:24:18 -0400 Send reply to: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Charles Frederic Andros Subject: Re: Buckfast, by Lloyd Spear, and rough handling. To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Here are a few comments: > I tested some of Roy's Weaver's Buckfast queens by chance. I found a > hot one in the bunch, lots of supercedure, and no brood to spare in the > spring for nucs. Plenty of late honey, but no early honey. You're not alone in your observations. Certainly agree with the other statements in Charles' original post. Genes not handling produce angry bees. ******************************************** The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia, ON, Canada.L3V 6H1 Phone- 705-326 7171. Fax 705 325 3461. North American agents. E.H.Thorne(UK)Ltd. Ventilated Hives and Equipment David Eyre... Owner http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks ********************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 22:11:37 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Laying Workers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Date sent: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 09:55:29 EDT Send reply to: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: Re: Laying Workers To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Just examined a hive of laying workers > My first observation was that there were wax moth larvae small white wormlike > things in the cells. > On a closer look this turned out to be 2-3 eggs end to end on the cell walls. > This is a hive which no matter what I did would not allow itself to be > requeened nor would it raise it's own . Further to this I would like to add the following. I have just cleaned up a laying worker in the above manner, but with a major second problem. I added the laying worker brood box and frames to a 10 frame single box, with a good laying queen. A week later I opened them up to have a look. No open brood, eggs or queen. It is possible I squished her, but unlikely. Is it possible the pheromones etc. from the laying worker frames were enough to turn the workers off the resident queen enough to remove her? ******************************************** The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia, ON, Canada.L3V 6H1 Phone- 705-326 7171. Fax 705 325 3461. North American agents. E.H.Thorne(UK)Ltd. Ventilated Hives and Equipment David Eyre... Owner http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks ********************************************* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 00:09:21 -0500 Reply-To: ktate@geocities.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Kathy Tate Subject: Re: Learning curve too steep - Need advice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Don't know if it's accurate with everyone else's bees, but if there is a chance of thundershowers or rain, my bees are very testy and will sting without remorse! The rest of the time, they're very docile. I'd blame their behavior on Hurricane Bonnie. Kathy Tate Stephenville, TX ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 20:58:24 -0800 Reply-To: beeman@gci.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tom Elliott Organization: Home Subject: Re: EXCLUDING QUEENS? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bozard, Charles Emmett (Mick) wrote: > WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF WERE TO PUT A QUEEN EXCLUDER UNDER THE BROOD BOX AT > THE ENTRANCE, PREVENTING THE QUEEN EVER TO LEAVE. If the bees decide to swarm they will just do it when you go in for inspection purposes. I have had a swarm emerge from a colony with a bottom excluder (it was not my colony). It was an exciting thing to see, but the bees still swarmed. Tom -- "Test everything. Hold on to the good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21) Tom Elliott Chugiak, Alaska U.S.A. beeman@gci.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 11:10:30 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: Excluder at entrance Hi Charles/All Charles you mentioned that you wondered what would happen if you placed an excluder at the entrance of your hives. For a while in SA people did that - some still do - it cloggs up with drones, and if your hive bodies begin to rot the bees chew a hole through the back. I was given two hives like this and set them up - as long as they are not producing drones it is ok - if they swarm the bees leave and hang on a tree and then come back. They do however chew the drones up that get stuck, and then raise more on a continuos basis - I suspect that this is energy expensive. Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis Eastern Cape Prov. South Africa Time = Honey After careful consideration, I have decided that if I am ever a V.I.P the I. may not stand for important. (rather influential, ignorant, idiotic, intelectual, illadvised etc) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 08:32:37 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Norman CotÊ" Subject: Re: EXCLUDING QUEENS? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I've found that putting a queen excluder under the brood chamber doesn't help at all. If they plan to swarm she stops laying eggs and slims down and will be able to fit through the opening of the excluder. Norm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 08:38:43 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Snail mail for Bob Bertold MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Does anyone have a snail mail address for Bob Bertold? Bob gave a mead presentation at EAS '98 and was also selling candle equipment at the trade show. I need to contact him and he is not on-line. Thanks in advance, Aaron Morris ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 07:54:25 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "catkinson@ipa.net" Subject: Propolis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I would like reference book on propolis explaining how to collect it, prepare it for consumption, and how to sell it. Thanks Curtis Atkinson ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 08:54:22 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Barricklow, Walt" Subject: Re: Hive Beetles Moving North. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ron looking for some bees wax, price, maybe check with Archie too WALT pondsite@barnwellsc.com ---------- > From: Ron Taylor > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Re: Hive Beetles Moving North. > Date: Wednesday, July 22, 1998 10:42 PM > > Just to let you know that an insect similiar to to small hive hive beetle > has been seen in lowcountry hives since the fall of last year. > McClellanville, Summervile, and Hampton County. The ones located in > Hollywood SC has been confirmed by Fred Singleton because they were sent > to a lab. Original estimate was that they were just another hive. Three > morre confirmation were disclosed today. Appears to be big problems now. > From our literature there is not controls for them. the beetles inter > the hive, lays eggs in the honey comb section, uncaps the honey, the > ferments because it is expose to air, the larve develops to i/2" long and > moves from the hive into the ground near the hive. They hatch and the > new beetles attack the hives. This is what we learned at the South > Carolina beekeepers meeting at Clemson. We need to keep track of which > areas become infested so the problem can be assessed. Thanks Ron Taylor, > President South Carolina Beekeepers, Cottageville, SC > > On Wed, 22 Jul 1998 08:33:10 -0400 Rod Billett > writes: > >Hey all. There was a article in our local paper this morning stating > >that > >three hives in Charleston County, SC had been found infested with the > >(as > >andy would say) Afro-Beetle! > > > > Lets see now. Discovered in Florida in April. found in SC in July. > >They should have infected the entire US by this time next year! > > > > David Green - Do you have any more information about this. I know > >your > >located closer to there than I. > > > >We have controls for Varoa and Traecheal mites, but nothing for the > >Afro > >Beetles and Bees. What is the economic impact to beekeeping going to > >be > >when the Beetles and African bees get a foothold into the comercial > >bee > >areas of the Southeast (Al, GA, FL). > > > >Rod Billett > >Lexington, SC > > > > _____________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 09:23:29 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tim Sterrett Subject: Mouse Excluder MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For excluding mice from four hives this winter, I plan to use aluminum angle iron fastened across the entrance on plastic bottom boards. What size holes will allow drones to escape and still keep mice out? (in inches, please) I have, in the past, used a queen excluder under the colony as a mouse excluder. This works fine, but installing the excluder means hefting heavy hive bodies. I am trying to think of a clever way to use the metal parts of old queen excluders (the ones with wooden strips separating narrow bands of excluder wire) as mouse excluders. Tim -- Tim Sterrett sterrett@voicenet.com (southeastern) Pennsylvania, USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 09:47:46 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Al Needham Subject: Re: Mouse Excluder On Wed, 26 Aug 1998 09:23:29 -0400 Tim Sterrett writes: > For excluding mice from four hives this winter, I plan to use >aluminum angle iron fastened across the entrance on plastic bottom >boards. Why not go to your local hardware store and get some heavy duty wire mesh? Hardware cloth I think they call it. Cut a piece the width of your opening and a little larger than your bottom to top opening, bend it slightly along the mid-line of its width and simply push it in the opening and it will stay in place fine. Inexpensive, easy method and reusable. No need for something complex and time consuming to manufacture at home. Al ....................................................................... <"Mailto: awneedham@juno.com" > Scituate,Massachusetts,USA The Beehive-Educational Honey Bee Site Visit The Beehive Book Shoppe http://www.xensei.com/users/alwine _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 10:17:58 -0400 Reply-To: beesbest@mediaone.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Kathy Organization: Red Maple Farm Subject: Re: Mouse Excluder MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Tim Sterrett asked about construction of mouse excluders: > > For excluding mice from four hives this winter, I plan to use > >aluminum angle iron fastened across the entrance on plastic bottom > >boards. Al Needham responded: > Why not go to your local hardware store and get some heavy > duty wire mesh? Hardware cloth I think they call it. 1/4" works the best. 1/8" bees can't fit through. 1/2" some mice can fit through, larger and most mice can fit through. Kathy ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 10:47:21 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Mouse excluders I agree with Al Needham, hardware cloth is the way to go. I use 1/2" mesh, but some feel a mouse can get through that and recommend 3/8". (I've never had a problem with a mouse getting through the 1/2".) I used to fold and insert it as Al suggests, but now have changed that. I now staple the hardware cloth to a piece of wood that is the width of the entrance and approximately 1/3" thick. I cut up scrap for this purpose. I leave about 1" of hardware cloth below the wood, and then staple the wood the hive body so that the hardware cloth covers the entrance. The skunks used to pull out my hardware cloth, but apparently can't get enough leverage to pull out the staples. I leave the hardware cloth on year-round. LloydSpear@email.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 11:05:47 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: Re: Mouse excluders Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit All my new homemade bottom boards have the same footprint as a hive body. Hardware cloth gets folded in a right angle and slipped under the hive body with the other leg covering the opening. A couple of tacks/push pins or staples hold the wire in place over the opening. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 11:23:21 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michelle Greene <76053.704@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: Mouse Excluder MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Tim, Brushy Mountain Bee Farm Sells on entrance guard for 4.50 or fiv= e for 19.95 ... I have them on my 3 hives and they are just what you are looking for .= = The only thing is my drones do not fit = thru the opennings.. so I have to remove them when I see the drone parad= e trying to get between something they = obviously can not get thru...They keep the mice and other critters out. The # is 1800 233 7929. Tell Becky and Sandy I said ..Hello.. = Bobby from Gardiner NY ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 15:53:27 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Norman CotÊ" Subject: Re: Mouse Excluder Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Tim, you can also use 1/2 inch hardware cloth. Its large enough for a drone to use, but, much too small for a mouse to enter. Norm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 14:39:02 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Kesler Subject: Deformed wings? MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII At what point should I be concerned if I see workers with deformed (not old and tattered) wings? (I am not yet on bee-l, so if you respond, please do so directly to me.) Thank you. David Kesler kesler@rhodes.edu ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- David H. Kesler, Ph.D. "Whatever you can do, or dream you Associate Professor of Biology can do, begin it - boldness Rhodes College has genius, power and magic 2000 N. Parkway in it." - J.W. von Goethe Memphis, TN 38112 e-mail: kesler@rhodes.edu web page: http://kesler.biology.rhodes.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 16:59:38 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jim Prather Subject: AFRICAN BEES SOUTH OF THE BORDER Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" HAS ANYONE HEARD HOW THE AFRICAN BEES HAVE DONE AS FAR AS PEOPLE AND CROPS ALONG WITH ANIMALS SOUTH OF THE BORDER? JIM ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 14:40:54 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: AFRICAN BEES SOUTH OF THE BORDER In-Reply-To: <199808262104.OAA00570@mx1.thegrid.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 04:59 PM 8/26/98 -0400, you wrote: >HAS ANYONE HEARD HOW THE AFRICAN BEES HAVE DONE AS FAR AS PEOPLE AND CROPS >ALONG WITH ANIMALS SOUTH OF THE BORDER? In Mexico they are killing everything within flight range of several miles, , please send relief money fast, as it was in the beginning and will be at the end. More to consider, the bees of Northern Mexico have always been aggressive and many beekeepers in the past have considered this an advantage as it kept unauthorized people away from the bees. It was possible to pay a little here and a little there and keep your bees right along the road without any problems. Today from what has been reported by BS and is available on line to read, Northern Mexican bees have all of a sudden become much more aggressive in their behavior and are all 100% Africanized. As far as in the US, in California they do well at pollinating the almonds but must be moved out soon as the bloom is done to protect irrigators and other farm workers. This for most beekeepers is something we have wanted to do for years but the almond growers insist that we stay until the last blossom falls which do NOT set fruit. With the fear and reality of the African bee hybrids, fire ants, and the like farmers are not as sure they want the bees in their crops any longer then necessary because of the liability. If this trends continues beekeepers will have more time to do beekeeping in the spring here in California or at some other location. There is an information overload about the so called Africanized bees try this Ural for a sample: http://groupweb.com/eco/bees.htm ttul, the OLd Drone Beekeeping Information http://beenet.com (c)Permission is given to copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 14:54:45 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Paul Nicholson Subject: Re: What are the methods to treate bees with Formic Acid In-Reply-To: <199808251742.KAA29304@alto1.altonet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:35 -0500 8/25/98, Dale Q. Marmaduke wrote: >What are the techniques currently being used with Formic Acid. I have a pamphlet on it somewhere which was written by some Canadian beekeepers. Basically, the method was to cut squares of homasote board and soak them with FA. Homasote is a product very similar to acoustic suspended ceiling tile and comes in 1/2 inch thick sheets. This is from my memory of reading the brochure last year, so I'm not sure of the amounts and sizes. I believe the Homasote was cut into 4x4 inch squares. Each square was sealed in a zip-lock sandwich bag with a measured solution of formic acid. After the FA is absorbed, the homasote square is placed in a zip-lock produce bag, which come perforated with many tiny holes. The perforated bag containing the saturated board and that is then placed in the hive. If anyone is interested, I'll see if I can find the exact recipe. Paul ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 00:39:44 +0300 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jan Tempelman Organization: Home Subject: Re: Deformed wings? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Kesler wrote: > > At what point should I be concerned if I see workers with deformed (not old and > tattered) wings? varroa get your bees, badly -- ------------------------------------------------- home of the drone frame method. de darreraat methode ------------------------------------------------- http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/index3.html Jan Tempelman mailto:jtemp@xs4all.nl Sterremos 16 3069 AS Rotterdam, The Netherlands Tel/Fax (SOMETIMES) XX 31 (0)10-4569412 ------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 20:05:31 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard Spiekhout Subject: purple stuff?? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Today I treated my 2 hives with syrup containing terramycin and fumidil-b. It was a light yellow color as to be expected of the terramycin. I fed each hive 1 qt. of this mixture this morning. at 5 pm, I looked at the hives and was amazed to see one hive had used 95% of the syrup and the other had used about 70%. It had turned a very pretty purple color. they were still using it beacuse there was an occasional bubble coming up. they are both in full sun on that part of the hive. What's going on? Is this ok or do I have a problem? What should capped brood look like? I have many cells that are light brown in color. I do not think this is pollen because I can see pollen in the upper part of the comb. I can also see honey in parts of it. I have read 5 books at least twice each and cannot find a discription of brood. I also cannot find definitions of the bee language. Please define "supercedure". this beginner thanks you for your help, Richard (asker of dumb ?'s) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 22:10:57 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: George W Imirie Subject: Re: Mouse Excluder Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit The easiest mouse excluder is a piece of 1/2" hole metal HARDWARE CLOTH. Cut it 14 3/4" long (width of a hive body) by about 2" high and staple it over the hive entrance in October, and remove it in March until next year. George ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 23:49:49 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: George W Imirie Subject: Re: purple stuff?? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Richard: I wrote you once before that you REALLY need a GOOD BOOK! Only a book written or revised in the last 5-6 years covers mites, so avoid older books. Perhaps the BEST beginner's book ever written is the Third Edition of The Beginners Handbook, released just 3 months ago. The author is Dr. Diana Sammataro and you can get it from the A. I. Root Co., Medina, Ohio for $29.95 E Mail is : beeculture@airoot.com. Tell Kim that I suggested it. George Imirie ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 01:37:38 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Dave D. Cawley" Subject: Frothing and Vinegar Smell? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I have a super that has been sitting since last fall and it has been closed up since then. I had boards over the top and bottom, with a fresh urinal block (main ingredient is pdb). The super was fine a month or so ago, but today when I took the top piece of wood off, the stench of vinegar was there the comb was somewhat fuzzy and there was some kind of smelly, frothing liquid coming from the cells. I left the super outside to dry out. Any idea what it is? *************************************************************** Dave D. Cawley | Where a social revolution is pending and, The Internet Cafe | for whatever reason, is not accomplished, Scranton, PA | reaction is the alternative. (717) 344-1969 | dave@scranton.com | -Daniel De Leon *************************************************************** URL => http://www.scranton.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 01:25:47 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rich Subject: Re: Mouse Excluder Comments: To: Kathy In-Reply-To: <199808261403.HAA18553@mail.quick.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Is this much of a problem? I am suprised that bees would be so tolerant of a mouse and not sting it to death. Rich On Wed, 26 Aug 1998, Kathy wrote: > > > For excluding mice from four hives this winter, I plan to use > > >aluminum angle iron fastened across the entrance on plastic bottom > > >boards. > > Al Needham responded: > > > Why not go to your local hardware store and get some heavy > > duty wire mesh? Hardware cloth I think they call it. > > 1/4" works the best. 1/8" bees can't fit through. 1/2" some mice can fit > through, larger and most mice can fit through. > > Kathy > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 21:42:35 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: unman Subject: Young queen don't want to start laying. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In one of my hive I have problem as following: New queen long time don't start laying (above 1 month). When I gave to this hive 1 comb of young brood from another hive, she started. It was to understand last year because workers must work very hard to build a combs but the same sytuation I had this year despite all was OK. I think it is something bad in the hive. Can it be? Andrzej, Poland ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 19:28:06 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: unman Subject: Odp: Re: Excluder at entrance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In my apiary, when the bees have excluder at entrance of hive they don't swarm. Don't swarm and don't work. They wait for a moment when the excluder is removed. This is a good way to avoid swarming when I have to go away for a week to two. At least ones a week the excluder must be removed for a 1 to 2 hour because drones plug it. Andrzej, Poland ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 13:24:37 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: African bees soputh of the border Hi All The question of african bees south of the US border was asked. Check out Andy's pages http://beenet.com He has a great article written by one of the guys who promoted the killer bee myth. (eg describes how this guy visited researchers who kept 'killer bees' along their front garden path where veryone walked and so on) The big down side of the African killer bee, is that it unfortuneately for african beekeepers came from africa and invaded the US. Hence people made very stupid movies about the bees, which eventually found their ways to our shores. Now, Joe Bloggs/Sipho Dlamini who sees a beehive thinks they are killer bees - whereas previously they would just have stayed two meters away from them. So the question is not, how are the people doing south where the AHB are, the question is how have beekeepers in the world been affected by the media fallout from the overhyped world press - by far the most dangerous and blind to reason army in the world. Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis Eastern Cape Prov. South Africa Time = Honey After careful consideration, I have decided that if I am ever a V.I.P the I. may not stand for important. (rather influential, ignorant, idiotic, intelectual, illadvised etc) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 09:55:37 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Green Subject: Re: Frothing and Vinegar Smell? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/27/98 7:29:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time, railrd@PTDPROLOG.NET writes: > I have a super that has been sitting since last fall and it has > been closed up since then. I had boards over the top and bottom, with a > fresh urinal block (main ingredient is pdb). The super was fine a month or > so ago, but today when I took the top piece of wood off, the stench of > vinegar was there the comb was somewhat fuzzy and there was some kind of > smelly, frothing liquid coming from the cells. I left the super outside to > dry out. > > Any idea what it is? It's fermenting. You might think that beeswax is impervious to water, but it is not. During the humid summer months, moisture will easily pass through the caps and dilute the honey to where it can ferment. Upon fermenting it will break the caps and froth up, as you describe. After first making alcohol, it then makes acetic acid, all natural processes, and they have evidently been going on for quite a while. PDB would have no effect on fermentation. Supers of honey need to be stored on bees, or kept in a dehumidified location during the summer. Or better yet, extract it. Putting it outside is kind of risky. You may have a bunch of drunk yellow jackets (as you've probably discovered by now). You might try putting it back on the bees. If there is anything salvageable, they will do it. Wipe off the frothy part on each frame first, as that is where the worst fermentation is. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html The Pollination Home Page: http://www.pollinator.com Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 10:08:41 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rick Hough Subject: purple stuff?? -Reply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Richard Spiekhout asks what brood looks like. The entomologists at Penn State (Scott Camazine, Maryann Frazier, Jennifer Finley et al) have put a bunch of great pictures about bees up on the web - check out http://www.psu.edu/dept/beehive/photgal.html. There are some excellent brood pictures in the honeybee diseases section. For those of you accessing the network via lower speed modems - beware - there are a LOT of pictures in this section of the Penn State website, and they may take a while to download..... Rick Hough, rshough@tasc.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 18:53:44 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: 'Killer' Wasps Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi All Reports have appeared recently of an attack on children in a playground in Ireland, by what were described as very big wasps. They would appear to be of European origin. I am wondering if any of the members have come across this phenomenon. The wasps seem to attack repetitively and in large numbers. Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland e mail cssl@iol.ie Tel + 353 1 289 5269 Fax + 353 1 289 9940 Latitude 53 Degrees 16' North Longitude 6 Degrees 9' West of Greenwich ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 22:33:53 +0200 Reply-To: LARS HANSEN Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: LARS HANSEN Subject: Sv: 'Killer' Wasps MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Tom. I=B4m pretty sure, you=B4ve come across a kind of wasp called Vespa = Crabro, that lives mostly in woods. It=B4s not unusual here in Denmark - = as a matter of fact, I=B4ve been killing 20+ of them during early summer, 4 or 5 of them queens.=20 Nobody I know of has been stung, niether has anyone reported any = agression. This rather large insect does have a larger amount of poison, but to my = knowledge, it=B4s=20 the same poison as by the usual wasp - just in maybe double portion. Thus the sting is pretty painful and according to my book " ..a few = stings may be dangerous to children". To be honest, I don=B4t feel comfortable having them around, and they = are pretty impressive. The queen beeing between 1=BD and 2 inches long and with a very deep = fligt-sound they seem like small helicopters.=20 I=B4ve seen one flying around for more than a minute with a 2-inch = catarpillar. They seem to feed on the same as the common wasp. They are = reported to be able to rob out beehives very effectively in the autumn - = "my wasps" didn=B4t live that long, and my wife has been laughing (from = inside the kitchen window!!) watching me ( 2 meters tall and 110 kilos) = jumping around the house and yard trying to wack them from the air with = whatever I had close to wack with :-) Hope you and your bees don=B4t find them around. :-) Lars, Denmark Third year beginner together with my father. 7 hives, old fashioned stationary Danish hives >Reports have appeared recently of an attack on children in a playground = in >Ireland, by what were described as very big wasps. They would appear to = be >of European origin. I am wondering if any of the members have come = across >this phenomenon. > >The wasps seem to attack repetitively and in large numbers. > >Sincerely > >Tom Barrett ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 15:18:36 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Sherry Medders Subject: New Bulletin Board Hi Everyone, I just wanted to say thank you to everyone who visits my site often and to let everyone know that I now have my bulletin boards up and running. Just wanted to share another great beekeeping communication tool at the Beekeeping Site at The Mining Co. Enjoy. Bulletin Board: http://beekeeping.miningco.com/mpboards.htm Kind Regards, Sherry Medders beekeeping.guide@miningco.com http://beekeeping.miningco.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 18:27:39 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: James Ralston Subject: Re: Drawing comb In-Reply-To: <199807132105.RAA29163@post-ofc03.srv.cis.pitt.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On July 13, Ian Watson said: > I always put either empty comb, or foundation BELOW a full super. > The full one then tends to act as bait. Also, the full super is > likely full of bees and so the bees draw out the foundation much > faster. Another trick is to use an internal feeder (a bucket that goes upside-down over the hole in the inner lid) as "bait". That way, even if you put the empty comb/foundation on top, you'll still get the bees up in it, as they'll have to cross the fresh foundation super to get to the feeder. Two weekends ago, I put a second deep super (filled with foundation) on top of my hive's existing deep super. I then put the inner lid on the second super, put the feeder on the inner lid, put another (empty) deep super on top of the inner lid (enclosing the feeder), and then put the telescoping cover on top of the whole shebang. When I checked on them last weekend, all I was hoping was that they had at least started to draw out the foundation. What I found instead was that had drawn out probably about 80% of the foundation, and were already storing honey in some of the frames. Wow! If only that Coke vending machine in the lunchroom made *me* as productive... James ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 18:42:35 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Christopher Slade Subject: The cost of Varroa treatment Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable I should be interested how much it costs to treat a hive of bees for varro= a annually using the approved treatment in different countries. Is it subsidised? Please can subscribers respond from all countries with Varroa= ? In the UK it costs about =A35 sterling per hive per annum using Bayvarol. = There is no subsidy. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 15:43:22 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Honey Queen in Heaven Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Esther Piechowski I should not admit that I ever knew this Honey Queen as she cost me and my friends thousands of dollars by infecting us with her enthusiasm for a National Honey Queen program that lasted many years and that we all supported with our hard earned cash in various ways, mostly strong arm, and at benefit auctions for our own candidates and then the winners. (Then there were the side bets and lottery.) God has received one good worker and I know she will be surrounded by many other honey queens of past times. Andy- *found the below in the sci.agr.beekeeping news group* On August 24th, 1998 beekeepers everywhere lost someone very dear, Esther (Mrs. Henry)Piechowski died at the age of 80. Esther is remembered for many things. She was an avid member of the American Beekeeping Federation and the Wisconsin Honey Producers Association. In the early 1950's they(her and Henry) brought the first Honey Queen to the American Beekeeping federation convention, beginning the American Honey Queen Program. Esther also served as President of the American Beekeeping Federation Auxillary. Together with family, they owned and operated a 2500-3000 hive "Henry's Honey Farm" until 1985 when the business was purchased by the John Piechowski Family. In 1996, She and Henry were recognized by the Wisconsin Honey Producers Association with the Pioneer Award for their pioneering work with the winterization of colonies in the southern climate, honey queen program, and activity through her years of involvement in the industry. Esther is survived by her 12 children, 10 step sons and daughters, and 22 grandchildren. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 07:45:55 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Dr. Gerald L Barbor" Subject: Re: Frothing and Vinegar Smell? Dave, Properly cured honey will last forever. I suspect that the super you stored was not fully capped and therefore not fully cured. High moisture content allows the yeasts to work and the honey will "sour", or turn to vinegar. You got it! Jerry in PA. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 07:54:21 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Dr. Gerald L Barbor" Subject: Re: Mouse Excluder Rich, The bees won't tolerate intruders unless they (the bees) are clustered in the upper reaches of the hive and can't get down to defend. In PA. I leave the entrances open all summer and place entrance cleats on in the Fall. A cleat may help keep winds out and keep the colony a little warmer. The hardware cloth mentioned in other responses is great and can be left on all year. Jery in PA _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 22:00:04 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Ralph W. Harrison" Subject: Re: Beginners Handbook Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit The correct title of the book is: "The Beekeepers Handbook" The book is co-authored by Dr. Diana Sammataro and Al Avitabile. It is a excellent book for the beginning beekeeper. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 22:37:26 PDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ernest Gregoire Subject: Re: Mouse Excluder MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII What size hardware cloth? It comes in a variety of mesh sizes. I bought some 1/4 inch mesh, and have not tried it yet. de AA1IK, Time the accursed enemy of man, cursed by youth for going to slow Ernie Gregoire and by the old for going to fast. R.R. 1, Box 221, South Rd. Beekeeper Canaan, NH. 03741 Fly fisher & tier, Promise Keeper. E-mail address: gregoire@endor.com packet address: AA1IK@WA1WOK.FN43FE.NH.USA.NA ------------------------------------- 08/27/98 22:37:26 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 00:06:13 +0100 Reply-To: mpym@hive.netkonect.co.uk Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Madeleine Pym Subject: Re: 'Killer' Wasps MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Tom, Have meant to contact you since my return to England to say what a pleasure it was to meet you and your wife whilst at Gormanston. I had such a wonderful time as well, and have a whole store of lovely memories of the lovely people that I met out there. On the wasp problem. My father is often called out to deal with swarms and also wasp nests. This year he has dealt with a small number of 'German' wasps. They are much larger than the usual ones. The 'worker' wasps are the size of the usual queen wasp, possibly even slightly bigger. They are darker in colour and very vicious. I gather that although they are called german wasps they are not particularly from Germany alone, but are a european breed. They are occurring in increasing numbers where he lives. They certainly fit your description. I am assuming they are not hornets of course. But the hornets I have seen this year up in Suffolk are not aggressive as such, although I guess they would be if disturbed around their nest. But it sounds as if this is an unfamiliar wasp, in which case my money is on the so-called 'German' wasp. Kind regards to you both, Madeleine Pym ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 16:25:39 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Linda Organization: MailExcite (http://www.mailexcite.com:80) Subject: New Bulletin Board Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Listers, I found this great bulletin board today. Thought it might be useful to some of you. Take Care, Linda http://beekeeping.miningco.com/mpboards.htm Free web-based email, Forever, From anywhere! http://www.mailexcite.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 09:32:09 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jon C Peacock Subject: Re: What are the methods to treate bees with Formic Acid Greetings Paul Nicholson, Yes, I am very interested "If anyone is interested, I'll see if I can find the exact recipe". And If the recipe was published, in what, date, etc. Thanks and Regards, J. C. Peacock, :-} E-Mail jayseapcok@Juno.com Retired Staff Sergeant. Grandfather to 6. 15 yrs B kpr. 14 Italian hives. Small Craft sailor. "Every day discover something new in the every day things around you, look at things differently." _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 23:28:00 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jon C Peacock Subject: Re: AHB in old Mexico. Greeting Garth, You are right about the stupid movies, [cinemas], and the media hype about AHB. The truth about AHB in old Mexico or South of the American boarder is; No Problem. They are there and the people of old Mexico learned to work them. From the many articles I've read from entomologist along the Texas / Mexico border, it is a case of 'live with them'. Just as the people of the countries south of Mexico have learned. It appears that the larger apiaries are making a profit with the AHB. Some of the other bees that are kept in old Mexico are quite interesting and colorful. Regards, J. C. Peacock, :-} E-Mail jayseapcok@Juno.com Retired Staff Sergeant. Grandfather to 6. 15 yrs B kpr. 14 Italian hives. Small Craft sailor. "Every day discover something new in the every day things around you, look at things differently." _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 10:30:52 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: frothy smelly supers Comments: To: railrd@PTDPROLOG.NET Hi Dave/All Dave - you describe a super that has become unpleasant smelling due to being left with I suspect some residual honey in it. What you describe is a typical fermentation reaction. The beehive has a number of dominant yeasts in it (Candida apiculata, apis, Torulops etc) as well as any gunk the bees dragged their feet through in the flowers etc. I have assayed the microbes on the brood surface and found all sorts of things, including Candida albicans.(all of these yeasts can be human pathogens, as can Saccharomyces the brewing yeast) If you leave honey that is uncapped, the wild yeasts soon ferment it as it's draws moisture and can then no longer retard microbial growth. I would recoment rinsing the combs in water, then letting them dry. You will find that honey from this super will tend to ferment more easily as most hive yeasts are spore forming and hence leave spores impregnated in the wax - if conditions are ever right again these will become active. Keep well Garth PS - the problem could also be beetles. Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis Eastern Cape Prov. South Africa Time = Honey After careful consideration, I have decided that if I am ever a V.I.P the I. may not stand for important. (rather influential, ignorant, idiotic, intelectual, illadvised etc) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 18:11:13 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: unman Subject: Odp: Re: chalk brood? Comments: To: beeworks@muskoka.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For a chalk brood is effective thymol. 10g/hive. If I see in front on a hive lot of chalk brood I splash the entrance and bees which there are with a vinegar (10%). Also give syrup with vinegar (2 ccm/1kg of sugar). Andrzej, Poland ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 17:32:35 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: unman Subject: Odp: INTRODUCTION MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm Pole. I don't know what means "nuc". Can You introduce it to me? Andrzej, Poland ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 23:49:20 +1200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Kerry Stewart Subject: Re: YOUNG QUEEN NOT LAYING MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There are many reasons why young queens do not start laying. Was the queen mated before you introduced her to the hive? If you introduced a virgin queen, and then had poor weather, this would have delayed her making a mating flight. The introduction of a frame of brood may have coincided with a mating flight and her subsequent laying. When did you introduce the new queen? If you did it recently the bees could have been slowing down for autumn/winter. The queen stops laying and the workers don't feed her as much. Introduction of the frame of brood and bees would have changed the bees' behaviour and could have brought about egg laying activity from the queen. If the queen was introduced during poor weather, and then you have had a run of fine weather, this could account for the change in behaviour. WA much rarer possibility is that you have a virgin queen, not producing queen substance which suppresses breeding activity in workers. One of the workers introduced with the frame of brood could have become a laying worker. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 08:28:18 PDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ernest Gregoire Subject: Division Board feeder /bee float??? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hello Gang, I placed a division board feeder into a couple of nucs recently and found hundreds of dead bees in them. I had floated a deep frame end bar in the syrup to allow the bees to walk on it and not drown. Obviously, this did not work. Is this a large enough piece of wood? Should the float be nearly the same dimentions as the feeder, allowing it to stay on the liquid as the syrup is use up and not get hung up when the liquid is low? What do you do to prevent drowning so many bees? de AA1IK, Time the accursed enemy of man, cursed by youth for going to slow Ernie Gregoire and by the old for going to fast. R.R. 1, Box 221, South Rd. Beekeeper Canaan, NH. 03741 Fly fisher & tier, Promise Keeper. E-mail address: gregoire@endor.com packet address: AA1IK@WA1WOK.FN43FE.NH.USA.NA ------------------------------------- 08/28/98 08:28:18 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 08:40:24 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Floats in division board feeders MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT My experience has been that floats do not prevent bee drownings. I have had better success using screen inserts or a piece of wood set diagonally from the top to the bottom of the feeder. Other beekeepers have suggested loosely packed straw of hay in the feeder but I've found that the straw or hay soaking in sugar syrup gets real rank real fast. I think the best results I have had has been with the diagonal wood piece. I've been meaning to try a V arrangement - two pieces of wood from both top ends to the bottom center to see if that improves on the single piece of wood but I havn't done that yet. For the record, regardless of the methods used, bees still drown in division board feeders. In spite of that they are still my feeder of preference and I keep one in each of my hives. It's always there when I need it and it's not a piece of equipment hanging around in storage when not in use. Sometimes the bees build brace comb inside the feeder and this brace comb is far superior in preventing drownings than any of the above methods. Aaron Morris - thinking bees need Baywatch too! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 09:00:29 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dan Murphy Subject: Slotted Rack Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII I have had a fair amount of stuff given to me from people that used to keep bees.... Including a slotted rack from AI Root, which is un-assembled. I have assembly instructions, but, what is it for? I have looked in the 4 or 5 books I have, and they either don't mention it at all, or (in the case of ABC's & XYZ's) have a picture of it, with a nice little label, but no indication of what it's for. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 09:05:09 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Slotted rack MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I believe it's called a slAtted rack (after the slats from each side). Actually, it's spare slats that I use in the division board feeders as the diagonal piece of wood mentioned in my previous post. Anyway, a slatted rack goes between the bottom board and the brood chamber, slatted side up, fat slat towards the front. It serves a number of purposes: it reduces drafts into the brood chamber, it provides clustering room between the brood chamber and bottom board, some say that bees are less defensive with the slatted racks as there is a barrier between the brood and the hive entrance, some claim better hive ventillation and there are probably other claims I have missed. I use slatted racks on some of my hives, but I am not convinced that they are "required" equipment. They're like queen excluders, some swear by them, some swear at them. The best write up I have ever seen about slatted racks is in Eugene Killion's _Honey_In_The_Comb_, where he swears by them. However Lloyd Spear (Owner of Ross Rounds, Inc.) claims that slatted racks are unnecessary (I have never heard Lloyd swear at anything :) Aaron Morris - thinking the controversy continues! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 09:51:08 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Varroa treatment cost Chris Slade wondered about cost. In the US a single Apistan strip costs between $1.40-$2.00, depending on supplier and quantity purchased. Each hive will require between 4 to 8 strips annually, depending on hive population. Therefore annual cost is between $5.60-$16.00, depending on cost of strips and hive population. There is no subsidy. Chris, your message came through as the UK cost being sterling 36. I am certain that is not correct. Please re-send your UK cost. LloydSpear@email.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 10:01:14 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Use of in-hive feeder Ernest wonders how to keep bees from drowning in a division board feeder. I have found two methods that work well: 1. Cut a piece of hardware cloth (grid size does not matter) a little less than twice the size of the feeder. Bend it in half, and place it inside the feeder. You can leave it there forever. 2. Buy one of the new plastic in-hive feeders. These have the inside roughened so the bees can always get out. They are made by Mother Lode Plastics and Mann Lake, and almost all dealers sell them. Lloyd LloydSpear@email.msn.com Owner, Ross Rounds the finest in comb honey production. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 10:36:25 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Conrad Sigona Subject: Re: Frothing and Vinegar Smell? In-Reply-To: <199808280500.BAA08895@newport.ntcnet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > Properly cured honey will last forever. I suspect that the super you > stored was not fully capped and therefore not fully cured. High moisture > content allows the yeasts to work and the honey will "sour", or turn to > vinegar. You got it! I've had properly cured and capped honey keep for two years in the comb. I kept it in the basement (dry in winter, humid in summer). When I put it there, I thought there was too little to bother extracting and was going to eat it right from the comb, but that super just became another fixture in the basement and I forgot about it until this, the 3rd, summer. Now it has begun to ferment, very mildly, but the smell is detectable. I'd therefore have to say that even cured honey will not keep forever. If it's sealed in a jar, then it'll keep a good while, but absent a seal and a low moisture environment, forever is a long time. Conrad Sigona conrad@ntcnet.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 12:31:58 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: Re: Use of in-hive feeder Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/28/98 11:42:11 AM Eastern Daylight Time, LloydSpear@email.msn.com writes: > Ernest wonders how to keep bees from drowning in a division board feeder. I > have found two methods that work well: > Toss the burr comb in it floats . ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 14:09:31 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Re: Use of in-hive feeder Thomas Cornick is entirely correct! In fact, I think the use of burr comb is better than either of my previous suggestions. So, if you have it, use it. If you don't have it (or enough) try my other two methods. Lloyd -----Original Message----- From: (Thomas) (Cornick) To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Date: Friday, August 28, 1998 12:35 PM Subject: Re: Use of in-hive feeder >In a message dated 8/28/98 11:42:11 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >LloydSpear@email.msn.com writes: > >> Ernest wonders how to keep bees from drowning in a division board feeder. I >> have found two methods that work well: >> >Toss the burr comb in it floats . ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 14:27:29 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Faith Andrews Bedford Subject: Atlanta beekeepers wanted Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi all - I just got a call from a garden center that wanted to "do something" educational about bees. It is in Atlanta. Are there any beekeepers out there who would like to be contacted. I don't know just what for, perhaps a presentation to kids or maybe just to be a contact number. Write me at FaithAB@aol.com, if you are interested. And.....has anyone seen BoB? I do hope the fellow who runs it is all right. Faith Andrews Bedford ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 13:48:00 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Musashi Subject: Re: Frothing and Vinegar Smell? Conrad Sigona states that even cured honey will not keep forever. If it's in a sealed jar, then it'll keep a good while, but absent a seal and a low moisture environment, forever is a long time." I think that was the point: comb honey that is "sealed" in wax, is not fully protected because the wax is not 100% impermeable to moisture. Moisture can gradually pass through the wax into the honey and then the honey will ferment. It is my opinion that properly cured honey, when then placed into a sealed jar will (relatively speaking) last forever as long as it is never exposed to the air. I have had honey stored in sealed containers that has lasted for years and years and still been good. It usually crystalizes, and in the crystalized form it stores even better with little to no deterioriation. It seems to me that I read somewhere that honey was found in sealed containers in the catacombs (like honeycombs?) of Egypt and it was still in good condition. It has to be sealed and is best kept in a low moisture environment. The wax comb isn't sufficient, nor is a zip loc plastic bag. Both will let small amounts of moisture through, and this gradually adds up until the fermentation process begins. Did I mention cool? It's better if stored cool too--less deterioration. Layne Westover College Station, Texas Quiz: If the honey was found in the catacombs, does that mean it was comb honey? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 15:46:26 -0400 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: Drawing comb MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit James Ralston wrote: > Another trick is to use an internal feeder (a bucket that goes > upside-down over the hole in the inner lid) as "bait". That way, even > if you put the empty comb/foundation on top, you'll still get the bees > up in it, as they'll have to cross the fresh foundation super to get > to the feeder. > .... > What I found was that the bees had > drawn out probably about 80% of the foundation, and were already > storing honey in some of the frames. Wow! > This is OK if your aim is to get foundation drawn out for use as feed storage. However, what you found was likely not "honey" at all but stored sugar syrup. Therefore, don't use this method to get drawn super comb - only good for brood comb. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 14:44:53 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Frank Fox Subject: Slotted rack -Reply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable my 2 cents on the subject..the first 4-6" of the slatted rack is 1 solid = plank of wood to reduce the amount of light coming in as a result of the = entrance. because of this, the girls will supposedly do a better job of = drawing out foundation in the lower corners of the frames as well as = filling up more of the cells with honey, pollen, etc. therefore, if you = believe this, always place the slotted rack on the hive entrance with the = solid section FACING THE FRONT. Also, some beekeeps insist that the = bottom board be painted a dark color to again reduce the amount of light = coming into the hive. i really don't know if there's merit to anything = i've described here. i've run hives with and without slotted racks and = have not noticed a difference. therefore, i've eliminated that piece of = equipment and the ensuing costs. after all, it's a nickel and dime = business. frank fox lebanon, tn ffox@genesco.com beebeard1@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 16:26:18 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Dr. Gerald L Barbor" Subject: Re: Frothing and Vinegar Smell? Thanks, Conrad, for the reminder that we should never use the words never, always or forever. A previous answed to Dave's question commented on the absorption of moistrure through the cappings, which is true, and your basement was humid in the summer, so I don't doubt that your capped honey could sour. Dave doesn't say what the conditions were where he stored his super or whether it was fully capped, and it was apparently stored for less than a year, so I suspect uncured honey. I guess the point of the whole discussion is that ; 1. High moisture content, regardless of cause, favors the activity of the yeast and eventual souring. 2. The bees know how to take care of honey better than we do. Leave it on if you can. Jerry in PA _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 21:50:29 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Beenetuk1 Organization: Amigabee computer networking for beekeepers Subject: update email address to apinet-L and kentbee-L -------- Forwarded Message --------- Original: DATE..... 28 Aug 1998, 10:49p Original: FROM..... STEVEN TURNER Original: TO....... ALL Original: SUBJECT.. update email address to apinet-L and kentbee-L Original: FORUM.... sci.agriculture.beekeeping Original: NETWORK.. BEENET.COM ECHO: INTBEE Hello bee webpage owners, Apinet-L and Kentbee-L have a new domain address. Please update your sites/info sheets on these Beekeeping mailing lists. Any references to amigabee.org.uk please change to zbee.com To subscribe to Apinet-L or Kentbee-L mailing list send email TO: listserv@zbee.com Subject: Message body: subscribe apinet-l firstname secondname or subscribe kentbee-L firstname secondname We have a number of UK beekeepers that use the ZbeeNet BBS E-mail service so please check bee address books for @amigabee.org.uk and change to @zbee.com Thank you STEVEN TURNER G6LPF Beekeeper/gardener Sysop of ZBeeNet BBS. http://www.beeman.dircon.co.uk/ Email: beeman@zbee.com .. Platinum Xpress & Wildcat!..... Nice!!!! ----- End of Forwarded Message ----- STEVEN TURNER G6LPF Beekeeper/gardener Sysop of ZBeeNet BBS. http://www.beeman.dircon.co.uk/ Email: beeman@zbee.com .. Platinum Xpress & Wildcat!..... Nice!!!! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 20:46:16 -0700 Reply-To: beeman@NOSPAMkingston.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Kent Stienburg Subject: Re: Odp: Re: nuc? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Andrzej, A nuc is simply a small hive with either 3,4 or 5 frames instead of 10. Kent Stienburg -- Remove NOSPAM to reply. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 20:58:56 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Frothing and Vinegar Smell? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I had a hive that started winter with fully capped cells but by spring, you could shake the honey from the combs, as if it had never cured. The bees suffered greatly. I was told that honey made from honeydew does exactly what this honey did, ferments easily, even after curing. It is terrible for overwintering bees. So could it be the honey that is the problem, and not uncapped honey? Bill T Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 21:47:20 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Greg J Zujus Hello All, Today I noticed a problem with a hive that I have been tending and would like some help. Bear in mind that prior to my tending of this hive this spring it had not been touched in 5 to 7 years, no honey pulled, no antibiotics, no apistan, nothing.... I also had not medicated this hive until recently and today is the first time it has had apistan ever. I had noticed the population on this hive dwindling over the last month or so but when I pulled a frame I found all stages of healthy brood so I assumed there was no problem. Today when I pulled my first frame I found NO BROOD at all. I then pulled several frames and discovered the following: Eggs were present and correctly laid on the bottom of the cells There was a decent pattern of uncapped grub stage brood in various stages There was almost no Capped brood ( 5 or 6 scattered capped cells per frame) There was also developing larvae which appears that it should have been capped but was not, the bees in these cells had changed position (elongated) and were completely developed, i e : eyes present... they were also still mostly white in color. Upon pulling several of these from the cells I noticed some of them had many small specks of black on the abdomen, POSSIBLY some type of very small mite or dirt specks. There are Varroa Mites present and I observed several running about the frames. I did not see any signs of brood disease; i e sunken cappings, brood dead in cells, etc. I think that is about all, any Ideas ??????? I also need some instructions for applying menthol to this hive. I have purchased the pre measured packages of menthol. I live in S.E. CT. Temps now are averaging in the 80's Greg Z _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]