========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 18:21:06 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Ralph W. Harrison" Subject: Filtering Honey Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit To get rid of the very small particles that float to the top of a five gallon pail of honey after it sets for a couple of days I take a piece of plastic kitchen food wrap and place it on top of the honey in the pail covering the hole top of the pail. When you remove the plastic food wrap all of the small particles will be removed with it. Ralph Harrison Milford CT USA Western CT Beekeepers Association ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 18:29:09 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Christopher Slade Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 4 Sep 1998 to 5 Sep 1998 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 06/09/98 04:03:44 GMT, you write: << [Rod Rupert] Because I need to medicate now with both apistan and menthol, >> Why both? I thought they were regarded as alternatives. Do you wear both belt and braces? Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 23:03:43 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Swarm Prayer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello I have been trying to find for some time, in my copies of The American Bee Journal, a prayer against swarms, which they published, I think, in the "Letters to the Editor" section, about 3 or 4 years ago. I haven't found it and have emailed Dadant, the publisher of the Journal, but they weren't able to find it. From the style of the language of the prayer, it seemed to have originated in the 1600's. I was wondering if anyone remembers the letter and if they could tell me the issue it came from. Thanks, Ian Watson realtor@niagara.com real estate agent gardener baritone beekeeper---> 14 colonies ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 01:49:12 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: Re: Feeding (was Learning Curve) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Tom and All: You wrote: >1 lb (.45 kgs) of honey contains 0.8 lb (.36 kgs) sugar, therefore the >colony requires 10 X .8 = 8 lbs (3.6 kgs) sugar, fed in syrup form. I enjoy the way your computer programmer's mind works, always trying to reduce the problem to a calculation. (grin) But the problem is a little more complicated and I think you will enjoy the following quote: >Let's take an example and see just how much of our original >sugar we can .expect to be converted into sealed stores. >Let's feed 4 gallons of 2:1 or 62 per cent white sugar >syrup. This will contain 32 pounds of sugar at the rate of >16 pound to the gallon and should weigh in the vicinity of >52 pounds assuming our ripened stores will contain 18 per >cent moisture we have to lose 20 per cent water or about >10.4 pounds of water. Now this represents an elimination >cost of nearly 3 pounds of sugar, if 4-5 ounces of sugar, >are lost per pound of excess water. This sugar itself when >consumed by the bees will also release excess water of >combustion that will require energy to eliminate. However, >that is getting a bit complicated. Now the bees are going to >use something like 5-9 pounds of honey at sugar to build >enough wax to hold the syrup, although this figure could >fluctuate depending on how drawn out the combs were. But >from our original 52 pounds of syrup we have lost or used up >10.5 pounds. of water, and say 11 pounds of sugar to >eliminate the water and produce the wax. This leaves us with >about 30.5 pounds of ripened stores. As a rough role of >thumb in estimating stores produced from syrup. The final >weight of ripened stores in the comb is slightly less than >the weight of dry sugar in the original syrup - in our case >we could expect about 30 pounds of ripened stores from 32 >pounds of sugar. For the full article (an excellent one!) you used to be able to send the message "get syrup" to Nick Wallingford's autoresponder. Probably you still can. Why don't you update the list Nick with what you still offer on your autoresponder. >Bear in mind of course that the above figures are UK based. Here in Prince Edward Island, Canada a small colony might overwinter on the amounts you mentioned, but a strong colony would usually starve. Regards, Stan 48 N and only warmed by the water here until it freezes (unlike the Emerald Isle) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 08:03:36 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: edward markus Subject: Handles and Hive Carriers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0036_01BDD96C.D984DB20" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01BDD96C.D984DB20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ten or more years ago, Mr.. Roy Thurber had a article published in = Gleanings of Bee Culture which dealt building a hive carrier. In fact I = think he talked about improving an original version developed by a = friend of his here in the Pacific Northwest. My memory says it looked = much like what I have seen advertised in the bee journals . As to = handles, a piece of 1x2 of appropriate length attached with sheetrock = screws does wonders. I put mine on the front for jamming hives close = together on my trailer. Put on the sides, they allow too much motion = which then leads to loose tie downs. As an aside, being cheap (my wife = speaks nicely) or cost efficient (my ego) , and needing to move hives = around, I have purchased an arm load of nylon-strapped ratchet = tensioners over several years from suppliers of Overseas Asian goods. I = use them both around each hive and over the whole works when traveling. = Several had pretty poor strapping, some I have managed to break through = stupidity and to latest ones from Harbor Freight in Camarillo, = California have been dandies. They sometimes go on special and = sometimes the freight charges are paid for you! Edward Markus - = Heart's Home Farm ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01BDD96C.D984DB20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ten or more years ago, Mr.. Roy = Thurber had a=20 article published in Gleanings of Bee Culture which dealt building a = hive=20 carrier.  In fact I think he  talked about improving an = original=20 version developed by a friend of his here in the Pacific = Northwest.  =20 My memory says it looked much like what I have seen advertised in the = bee=20 journals .  As to handles, a piece of 1x2 of appropriate length = attached=20 with sheetrock  screws does wonders.  I put mine on the front = for=20 jamming hives close together on my trailer.  Put  on the = sides, they=20 allow too much motion which then leads to loose tie downs.  As an = aside,=20 being cheap (my wife speaks nicely) or cost efficient (my ego) , and = needing to=20 move hives around, I  have purchased an arm load of nylon-strapped = ratchet=20 tensioners over several years from suppliers of Overseas Asian goods. I = use them=20 both around each hive and over the whole works when = traveling.  =20 Several had pretty poor strapping, some I have managed to break through=20 stupidity and to latest ones from Harbor Freight in Camarillo, = California have=20 been dandies.  They sometimes go on special and sometimes the = freight=20 charges are paid for you!      Edward Markus = - =20 Heart's Home Farm
------=_NextPart_000_0036_01BDD96C.D984DB20-- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 08:25:15 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Apistan and Menthol treat different mites! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Chris Slade queried: > Why both (apistan and menthol,)? I thought they were regarded as > alternatives.... No, Apistan and menthol are NOT alternative treatments. Apistan is the only US registered treatment for Varroa mites (Varroa jacobsoni). Menthol is the only US registered treatment for tracheal mites (Acarapis woodi). Aaron Morris - thinking apples are not oranges! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 08:18:15 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: Wangs Strips Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Is anyone familliar with the Fluvalinate product being offered via the website at www.varroa.com And if so how have your results compared to the Apistan strips sold here.? Tom in CT ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 08:23:33 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 4 Sep 1998 to 5 Sep 1998 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Apistan for varroa, menthol for tracheal. Two different treatments for two different pests. Bill T Christopher Slade wrote: > Why both? I thought they were regarded as alternatives. Do you wear both > belt and braces? > Chris Slade -- If there is a zz before clinic.net, remove it to reply directly. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 08:29:56 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Brian Myers Subject: Extractor, woodenware, etc for sale in Oklahoma Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello - I hope it's not poor form to advertise here on BEE-L... but this is definitely an isolated incident. I have to sell all of my beekeeping equipment before I move, so I want to sell everything, not bits and pieces. I have: A rather old Dadant 32 frame SS extractor, works great; with lube gun and extra tube of food grade lube. I can help move it locally, if needed - it fits in my pick-up. Parts for three full hives, with everything, including tops, bottoms, entrance reducers, queen excluders, baggie feeder boxes, and upper entrance shims. Total of 10 medium boxes, with Pierco plastic frame and foundation. Hives bought new from Brushy Mountain, used two seasons. Three of the 10 mediums are currently occupied by a healthy hive - the other seven boxes are empty & ready to use. Smoker, hive tool, hat, veil, gloves, hackler punch uncapping tool, burlap smoker fuel, etc. $1000 for everything. I'll miss the girls, but I can't take them with me (moving to New Zealand, no outside bees allowed). I'm in Norman, OK, just south of OKC. Please respond to: bmyers@notes.seagate.com Thanks, Brian ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 09:34:58 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Charles Frederic Andros Subject: En: Japanese knotweed, or Bamboo (Polygonum cuspidatum), an amazing honey plant Comments: To: BEE-L MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="x-user-defined" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, Yesterday I recorded a new Linden Apiaries record for 24-hour product= ion of one colony on a platform scale. From 7:15 PM on September 5 until 7:1= 5 PM on September 6, a two-queen colony at my house gained 19.25 lbs.! My previous record was 18 lbs. during the bamboo flow of '96. Other 24h gai= ns for the day were 16.75, 15.5, and for 48 hours I recorded 19.75 and 28.75 lb. gains. The latter colony had a 6-day gain of 67.75 lbs.! (I have a total of 6 scale hives in 5 yards.) Temperature on the 6th was 49=B0-80=B0= at my place, and about 5 degrees warmer by afternoon in the valley, where mo= st of my colonies are located. Back in the 80's, I used to get 4.25 lb. gains on bamboo on good days= , but as an aggressive almost ineradicable plant from Japan, it has now increased to the point where it is the heaviest flow and is now available= to all my apiaries. Let me know if you need any seeds! On the flow, Charles F. Andros VT/NH Apiary Inspector, '78-'89 My address: Linden Apiaries/Boulder Wall Gardens 1 McLean Road Walpole, NH 03608-0165 603-756-9056 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 10:21:15 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Fluvalinate Tom asked "how have your results compared to the Apistan strips sold here.?" "Here" referenced the United States. I am also interested in whether the strips are effective, as stated. They are approximately 50% of the present US price! The strips seem very small, only the length of a bee...if the illustration at www.varroa.com is accurate. Comments anyone? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 17:42:22 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Kai-M. Engfer" Subject: Wanted: honey bee photos MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Hello all, I would like to publish good photos on my beekeeping web-site* from all over the world. I would be very happy, if YOU can send me interesting photos (GIF, maybe JPEG) by e-mail, especially those of queen bees, different bee races, tropical beekeeping, honey, honey plants etc. Thank You!!! * http://home.t-online.de/home/Kai-M.Engfer/bees.htm Kai-M. Engfer, Tel. 04347-8861 Ostlandstr. 1 \| D-24247 Mielkendorf, Germany -|||8< /| ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 17:42:20 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Kai-M. Engfer" Subject: gum honey wanted MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Hello all, my girl friend Malgorzata loves me and Gum Honey!! Unfortunately gum does not grow in Germany. Who can help?? Where can we buy gum honey?? Malgorzata Pomorska and Kai-M. Engfer, Tel. 04347-8861 Ostlandstr. 1 D-24247 Mielkendorf ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 13:00:21 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: En: Japanese knotweed, or Bamboo (Polygonum cuspidatum), an amazing honey plant MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Back in the 80's, I used to get 4.25 lb. gains on bamboo on good days= >but as an aggressive almost ineradicable plant from Japan, it has now >increased to the point where it is the heaviest flow and is now available= > to >all my apiaries. > Let me know if you need any seeds! Could you describe the honey it produces as far as colour and flavour? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 14:14:25 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Midnitebee Subject: new article MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings... "How old is your Queen?" article is located here http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee Happy 80th birthday George!! Herb Holly-B Apiary P.O.Box 26 Wells,Maine 04090-0026 http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 15:04:21 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tracey Monahan Subject: BLACK PAINT ON LIDS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Good Day All I have been picking up different colors of paint. Red and White are popular, but I have run across a good deal on black paint. I was wondering how this would work on tops and bottoms. In summer the sun would hit the lids heat the air. Warm air raises pulling with it the air from below. Basically the hot air under lid sucks up the cooler air from below while the bees fan the entrance. In winter when the sun hits the lid it will warm the air which will allow it to hold more moisture thus decreasing the chances of condinsation forming and dripping on the cluster. does this seem logical or am I missing a concept. Tracey Monahan Michigan ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 16:15:26 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Help! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please don't be offended with me, I'm up to my neck in muck and bullets now. If anyone has written to me in the last few days, please repeat I'm having computer problems and have lost the last 5 days mail. Regards to all, hope your season has been as good as ours. ************************************************************ The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia, ON. L3V 6H1. Canada. Phone (705) 326 7171 Fax (705) 325 3461 David Eyre. Owner. beeworks@muskoka.net www.muskoka.net/~beeworks *********************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 16:33:12 -0400 Reply-To: glen@writeme.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Glen B. Glater" Subject: Looking for queens in the Northeast Hello: My beekeeping partner needs to requeen his hive in Massachusetts as soon as possible. Can anyone suggest a good supplier of high quality queens in the New England area? Thanks. --glen ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 21:44:11 +1200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Organization: Bay of Plenty Polytechnic Subject: NZ Beekeeping autoresponder MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > For the full article (an excellent one!) you used to be able to send the > message "get syrup" to Nick Wallingford's autoresponder. Probably you still > can. Why don't you update the list Nick with what you still offer on your > autoresponder. The misc files are mostly on the NZ Beekeeping site, too, and there is a form to make 'ordering' them easy. Try http://www.beekeeping.co.nz/autor.htm If you don't mind being particular about your spilling, er, ah *spelling*, you can order them by email: BEEKEEPING.CO.NZ AUTORESPONDER =============================== INSTRUCTIONS FOR REQUESTING A FILE ---------------------------------- You can request files by addressing an email message to filename@beekeeping.co.nz where 'filename' is replaced with the names listed below. For example, if you want the file about Organic Honey, you would send a message to organic@beekeeping.co.nz It doesn't matter what you put in the subject or the body of the message! filename Subject -------- ------- others Comprehensive list of Internet links for beekeeping! glance NZ Bkpg: 'At a Glance' stats NZ Bkpg: Statistics history NZ Bkpg: History hobby NZ Bkpg: Beekeeping as a Hobby (Story) polln NZ Bkpg: Beekeeping for Pollination (Story) comm NZ Bkpg: Commercial Beekeeping (Story) comp NZ Bkpg: Composition of the Industry educ NZ Bkpg: Education and Training govt NZ Bkpg: Governmental Involvement maf NZ Bkpg: MAF Quality Management indorg NZ Bkpg: Industry Organisations legis NZ Bkpg: Legislation disease NZ Bkpg: Pest and Disease Status prodserv NZ Bkpg: Products and Services resuniv NZ Bkpg: Research, Universities threats NZ Bkpg: Threats from Overseas afbpms NZ Bkpg: Pest Management Strategy for AFB efb NZ Bkpg: Surveillance Scheme to Establish EFB Free Status labels NZ Bkpg: Proposal to Require Specific Label Warnings afb Bibliography: American Foulbrood envindic Bibliography: Bee Products as Environmental Indicators molan Bibliography: Dr Peter Molan (Waikato University) botulism Bibliography: Honey and Infant Botulism healing Bibliography: Honey as a Healing Agent observe Bibliography: Observation Beehives paraffin Bibliography: Paraffin Wax for Preservation and AFB Control solarwax Bibliography: Solar Wax Melters weighing Bibliography: Weighing Beehives syrup The Inside Story of Feeding Sugar to Bees organic Organic Honey moreinfo Other Sources of Beekeeping Information polln2 Pollination (Notes for Radio Interview) stings Stings (Notes for a Radio Interview) recipes A number of recipes showcasing honey wildbee 'Wild Bee's Beekeeping FAQs' (similar email server) feeding Feeding Sugar to Bees supering Adding Supers to the Hive taking Taking Honey from the Hives basics The Basics of Beekeeping qvalue The Value of Re-Queening nolook Re-Queening Without Looking for the Queen products Using the Other Products of the Hive creamed Creating Your Own Creamed Honey shifting Shifting Beehives ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- home nickw@beekeeping.co.nz (/ work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz NZ Beekeeping http://www.beekeeping.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 19:12:07 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Conni Still (Long Island)" Subject: filtering honey Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Chuck you could try filtering your honey through a fine fabric called Organdy (like bridal gowns are made of) which you can purchase in any fabric store. I used last year for the first time and won a Blue Ribbon at the honey judging of the Long Island Beekeepers Club. I cut a piece larger than the 5 lb pail and clamp it along the edges with clip type clothes pins. Make sure you leave enough of an indentation for the honey to pool. Good luck. Conni Still, Bayport ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 19:27:51 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Christopher Slade Subject: Feeding and learning curve Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Michael Francis intends to place a bowl of sugar syrup in his hive to feed the bees. Michael, this is a very efficient way of drowning them. As a beginner I suggest you go to your appliance dealer and ask for a feeder. There are several patterns on the market and most are relatively cheap. Their common feature is that they allow the bees only tongue contact with the syrup. If you are a do it yourselfer get a plastic or metal container of a capacity of about half a gallon (US or Imperial, it doesn't matter). Punch or drill a number of holes of the diameter of a sewing needle or thereabouts in an area that could be encircled by your thumb and middle finger in the centre of the lid. As many holes as you can before they overlap or you get bored. Almost fill the can with dry cane sugar. Add hot water and stir until the sugar is dissolved and the container is full of fluid. Replace the lid securely. Go to your hive in the evening and invert the feeder over the hole in the crown board. Add an empty super to surround it and replace the roof. Initially a small amount of syrup will leak out and fall on the bees to tell them that the bee equivalent of manna is falling from heaven. Then a vacuum will form and the remaining syrup will defy gravity until the bees suck it out at their own pace. Tom Barrett has given the text book answer for beginners and for people who want to pass their exams or who have only 2 or 3 hives. What the text books don't tell you is that by routinely feeding your bees you are artificially selecting in favour of bees which NEED routine feeding. I gave up routine feeding years ago and have seldom lost a colony through winter starvation. Inevitably as part of the selection process in favour of winter efficient bees some colonies will be lost from time to time especially at first. However, death is a pretty steep learning curve and the survivors will pass on their their know - how through their genes spread around the neighbourhood via their drones. Pretty soon the swarms you pick up in the area will also be winter efficient unless you have a neighbour who is in the habit of buying in queens. If so, find out who he is and give him some of yours. Explain that he is contaminating your selective breeding programme and he will be impressed as well as grateful. The corollary to not feeding the bees routinely is that you must not be too greedy. The honey you steal from them must be truly surplus to their needs. Bearing in mind the difference in price between honey in the jar and sugar in the bag there is commercial pressure to squeeze every ounce of honey from the bees in the short term. Think long term and consider the value of selecting for bees that are natural survivors in your climate rather than existing on the edge of their range, able to survive unaided only in the most benevolent of winters. Notice I have not said "do not feed" but do not feed ROUTINELY. If you have a special reason to feed, then by all means do so - the feeder is one of the tools of your trade. Use it circumspectly. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 19:37:07 -0400 Reply-To: vcoppola@froggernet.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Re: amitraz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Andy Nachbaur wrote: > Posting questions like that here in an international list group with so > many US bee keepers only gets you lots of remarks about the legalities of > its use as here in the US its use is not allowed at this time in the US > because of problems with bee kills in the one prescribed product that was > in use for a short time You really should do a bit of research before you make such comments. Efforts to develop a product to control varroa based on amitraz were discontinued in this country because there is already too much amitraz in the food supply. Although debatable, additional uses could increase this amount beyond acceptable levels. At least that is what the people at the EPA told me. It could be that they are wrong about this but I must admit that I am not qualified to dispute them. Perhaps the stockmen you mentioned could be persuaded to explain how they have determined the safety of their methods. My response to the original post has nothing to do with he legality of the mentioned product in the US. I simply stated that following the directions on the label of such a product is its only safe use, and since my policy is to err on the safe side in such matters I would give the same advice I gave in my previous post, to anyone, in any country. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 22:45:53 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Green Subject: Re: En: Japanese knotweed, or Bamboo (Polygonum cuspidatum), a Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/8/98 1:11:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, realtor@NIAGARA.COM writes: > Could you describe the honey it produces as far as colour and flavour? It is in the buckwheat family. It is dark honey, but milder than regular buckwheat. Very nice. I'd like to buy some; none grows around here. I don't know if this is applicable, but it is regarded as an alien invasive plant, and there may be laws prohibiting its propagation. Its gotten pretty common in the northeast. I don't know if it is present in the northwest, but I bet there are a lot of people that don't want it. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html The Pollination Home Page: http://www.pollinator.com Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 21:06:05 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: amitraz In-Reply-To: <199809090008.RAA16594@mx1.thegrid.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 07:37 PM 9/8/98 -0400, you wrote: >> Posting questions like that here in an international list group with so >> many US bee keepers only gets you lots of remarks about the legalities of >> its use as here in the US its use is not allowed at this time in the US >> because of problems with bee kills in the one prescribed product that was >> in use for a short time > You really should do a bit of research before you make such comments. Hi Vince and Friends, I did just that and that was my reason for a reply to all and to the tread, I did not intend it as a personal attack on you or anyone else,,, but if the shoe fits. Here is a easy to read site on Amaitrize, its uses and safety concerns. It may not be a on shore US site for good reason, as at least one beekeeper can testify too that, but this site is relied on by those in the world and the US looking for general chemical information without the US politics or police. http://www.nccnsw.org.au/member/tec/projects/tcye/tox/Amitraz.html >Efforts to develop a product to control varroa based on amitraz were >discontinued in this country because there is already too much amitraz in the food supply. This is a nice thought and story and I for one agree, but IMHO it is just not true. New Amitraz products continue to be registered in the US and around the world for products such as pet strips or collars to kill ticks, dog manage soaps, crop protection, and other animal husbandry products and even to vector control of pests on varmints that may spread disease to man such as lyme or the black plague. Years ago a section 18 use permit was granted Amitraz for bee mite control and was interesting because it does kill both mites. Miticur was the brand name of a formulation for bees in a one use applicator strip that was test marketed in a limited area. No Amitraz products that I know of are at this time registered for beekeeping use in the US and the one that was, Miticur, was pulled by the formulator because of bee kill problems not food residue problems as it never was in use long enough or used on enough hives to have that problem. Other products such as Ovasyn, a cotton insecticide formulation of Amitraz, could be registered if any formulator wanted to do the work now required for registration which because of the cost makes it less likely because of the small $$$ use requirements of the bee industry. They would not necessarily have to be in a single use package which are used because of the added $$$ value and quick return of capital from retail sales and not because they are the best or even the safest use of the active chemical. It is interesting that Amitraz and Fluvalinate are no longer rud's, restricted use products, in some areas. >Although debatable, additional uses could increase >this amount beyond acceptable levels. At least that is what the people >at the EPA told me. It could be that they are wrong about this but I >must admit that I am not qualified to dispute them. I agree with what you and they say and the right to say it. But it is not necessarily the way it is or was. IMHO >Perhaps the stockmen you mentioned could be persuaded to explain how they have >determined the safety of their methods. If you are really interested I can provide you with enough information to turn your brain to mush and you will be an expert on Amitraz but will know little more then what you can find for yourself in any good library or on the Internet. If you are a US beekeeper it would do you little good as no Amitraz product is registered for use in bee hives. >My response to the original post has nothing to do with he legality of >the mentioned product in the US. I simply stated that following the >directions on the label of such a product is its only safe use, and >since my policy is to err on the safe side in such matters I would give >the same advice I gave in my previous post, to anyone, in any country. It is always better NOT to use any pesticide around bee hives depending on what the loss of those bee hives means to your ability to provide yourself or your family and enjoy life's simple things like food, clothing and housing but if you don't have these problems then your perspective is like those of the fisherman with not shoes so without them you can not walk in the shoes of others working in the glass factory. I have walked the path of NO chemicals,, I don't like pesticides, I don't like Amatriz, I don't like Foovaluate, I don't even like the people who try to sell these things to others, but if my neighbor beekeeper is down because his bees are going down and asks for help I for one will try to help him in protecting his bees with pesticides such as Amatriz or any other I know about that other beekeepers have reported to be useful, that does not mean I have to change my own mind on whats right for me or that what others are doing is wrong. ttul, the OLd Drone Los Banos, California http://beenet.com (c)Permission is given to copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 19:51:32 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Billy R. Whitener" Subject: Bee Sounds MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hell All, I am currently working on a class project, I am building a web site/page that my entomology instructor will use to educate some of our young people about bees. Does anyone have, or know of a place where I can find Bee sounds. Any input would be greatly appreciated Thanks, B. Whitener ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 10:25:16 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Hive Carrier alternative Hi All Just thought I would share an alternative to putting handles on a hive. In my country, bread is sold in plastic racks - which make perfect hive stands. I bought a few damaged examples of these racks and have used them as hive stands where we have ant problems (turned upside down they lift the hive of the ground and then the bees are able to deal with the ants. However they make excelent hive 'stretchers' two people can carry a heavy hive by standing one on each side. They look like this L J _______________ (this gap is a handhold) XXXXXXXXXX The X's represent a sort of air space to stop bread going soggy I geuss. If one turns it upside down it is a nice stand, the other way around a nice slip profe carrier. Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis Eastern Cape Prov. South Africa Time = Honey After careful consideration, I have decided that if I am ever a V.I.P the I. may not stand for important. (rather influential, ignorant, idiotic, intelectual, illadvised etc) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 10:31:06 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Black Paint Comments: To: monahant@MDOT.STATE.MI.US Hi Tracey/All Another spin off of black pain is that it makes the hive lid warmer and hence less likely to go 'crack' as you lift it. I have a few hives which have wooden creosoted lids - and they are easy to lift of on hot days. For tense bees I would recomend this setup - there is nothing like the crack of lifting the lid to get the bees going. Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis Eastern Cape Prov. South Africa Time = Honey After careful consideration, I have decided that if I am ever a V.I.P the I. may not stand for important. (rather influential, ignorant, idiotic, intelectual, illadvised etc) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 10:49:00 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Filtering - defouling Hi All In our lab we have some interesting work being done on membranes. A traditional membrane foulds because the downward pressure on it basically just forces little globs that cant get through to block the pores. o o o Golobs - - - - - - membrane -o-o-o--- result with downward pressure. If however you build a filter which is tubular, consisting of a long tube which has flow along it, or pressure downwards on it, the flow dislodges the particles. I o I o I o I Hence if you have a tube, the downward flow will dislodge jams into the membrane/filter and you get better filtration. Breweries commonly use such filtration, as do fruit juice producers who use clarified grape juice as a base. A small scale system such as this could be made by taking a plastic cloths basket, filling the inside with your strainer and then placing the whole thing in a barrel - if honey is poured into it the honey strains out. I have built a system like this in a large drum, and have painted the drum black. On top of this I place a seal (as in something to stop other things getting in, not the little mammal - not sure which is spelt which way?, and then leave it in a sunny spot. After about four hours it proccesses a full 'load' which for me is ten supers. As out drought ends I plan to build more of these as they definitely speed things up, and I pay nothing for using the sun - something we have a lot of here in South Africa. Hope this helps Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis Eastern Cape Prov. South Africa Time = Honey After careful consideration, I have decided that if I am ever a V.I.P the I. may not stand for important. (rather influential, ignorant, idiotic, intelectual, illadvised etc) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 20:49:26 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Charles Frederic Andros Subject: Re: Ian Watson: knotweed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ian: Japanese knotweed or Mexican Bamboo (Polygonum cuspidatum) honey is usually mixed with aster here but is light and mild. It is in the Buckwheat family, but one of the mildest of this group, which includes smartweed. It thrives in wetter areas, such as drainage ditches and along brooks and rivers, where it is an excellent erosion control. It has no thorns and is edible, I've heard. It's origin is Japan. It reaches 8 feet in height. It is still in full bloom here in southwest NH and southeast VT. Charles Andros ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 12:03:30 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Roiz Wolf Subject: Question on UV effects on honeybees I hope I am sending this properly I have a question about honeybee biology. I am not very well educated on bee biology (I am an engineer) I have looked up some fascinating articles , and understand the flower marking and dance info. This tends to support, in part, the possibilities of some "rumor" floating around about southwest USA bee production The Rumor There is an alrming increase of solar flare activity that will peak sometime in the year 2000 solar flares produce x-rays, and elevated UV Of course, these are very short "bursts" of energy that only last minutes. however... stories have started (as stories enevitably do when anything unusual happens) including - sunburning through clothing - doughts - increase risk of wildfire - bee blindness - wait a minute! back up... Bee blindness? how did THAT ever get into the list? This is precisely why I am writing to your distinguished group. An "Urban Legends" (AKA "wives tales) group list that i am active with has a thread about this that I would like to report further on. besides some humorous theories of "seeing eye flies" and "break dancing bees" ... I have reported some interesting facts about UV sight and the importance of "bullseye" marking, etc. Thier has been some interested response... most people out thier take this fascinating natural cycle for granted. one interest that resulted from this apparent "tall tail" ... that I share... "Whats the scoop with bees and weather... ?" * can bees be blinded by some phenomina? * What is termed blinded? - is it a temparary condition as the result of a "pulse" of UV or some other event? - is it a permanent thing? * is this a concern in the honeybee comunity? * are thier any examples of this actually happening. I would appreciate any information from your group that may inform me, and give me the opertunity to inform others. I may be emailed at roizwolf@earthlink.net thank you in advance... Roiz Wolf P.S. I warn any reader not to let the concept of a "break dancing" bee come to mind while drinking coffie ( I actually choked for 10 minutes) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 07:47:21 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Hunter Williams Subject: School bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I'm a beekeeper who is attempting to get our youth interested in beekeeping, entomology and agriculture in general. I am working on a grant to place a hive on a middle school campus. Most eventualities (vandalism, stinging, etc.) have been worked out, but the company wants statistics. I would greatly appreciate any statistics or experience you have in such an endeavour. If you would like to see the proposal, I can send it to you. I would greatly appreciate any assistance you could give. Hunter ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 08:17:11 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Midnitebee Subject: Re: En: Japanese knotweed, or Bamboo (Polygonum cuspidatum), a MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I don't know if this is applicable, but it is regarded as an alien >invasive plant, and there may be laws prohibiting its propagation. Its gotten >pretty common in the northeast. I don't know if it is present in the >northwest, but I bet there are a lot of people that don't want it. Lossestrife,Japanese knotweed,Oriental bittersweet are very invasive plants..in some states,there are outright prohibitions against selling these plants or relocating these plants to your yard..if found on your property,you are required to dig them up.. Herb > >Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA >The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html >The Pollination Home Page: http://www.pollinator.com > >Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) >http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 08:20:11 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Midnitebee Subject: Honeybees sweeten city's roofs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings.. Found an interesting article about beekeeping in the BIG city.. http://www.telegram.com/news/inside/hives.html Herb Holly-B Apiary P.O.Box 26 Wells,Maine 04090-0026 http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 08:39:12 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: Re: En: Japanese knotweed, or Bamboo (Polygonum cuspidatum), a Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Japanese Knotweed was a gift from the government. It is the norths version of Kudzu another gift from the government. It is harder to eradicate than real bamboo which seldom sets seed. Be wary about planting it. Tom in CT ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 08:36:37 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: Re: Black Paint Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit For the same reason black paint is not good for a wooden boats topsides. Many expand and contract cycles will eventally tear wood apart , break glue joints and loosen nails. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 17:01:27 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dr Max Watkins Subject: Re: Fluvalinate In-Reply-To: <905266495.203937.0@uacsc2.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 You need 4 strips per treatment with Bayvarol as opposed to 2 strips of Apistan. A hive treatment in the UK, using Bayvarol costs the beekeeper approximately # 5.00 sterling. Apistan, when it is registered in the UK next month will be much less expensive. Regards, Max In message <905266495.203937.0@uacsc2.albany.edu>, Lloyd Spear writes >Tom asked "how have your results compared to the Apistan strips sold here.?" >"Here" referenced the United States. > >I am also interested in whether the strips are effective, as stated. They >are approximately 50% of the present US price! The strips seem very small, >only the length of a bee...if the illustration at www.varroa.com is >accurate. > >Comments anyone? -- Dr Max Watkins Director, Vita (Europe) Limited Basingstoke, UK ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 08:55:03 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: amitraz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I doubt if we will ever know for sure, but the bee kills may have been because of HFCS or misuse of mitacure. Could also have been the mitacure, but not from what I have heard to date. In any case, the manufacturer pulled it because it was not worth the law suits along with the small beekeeping market. Bill T Andy Nachbaur wrote: > Miticur, > was pulled by the formulator because of bee kill problems not food residue > problems as it never was in use long enough or used on enough hives to have > that problem.(w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! -- If there is a zz before clinic.net, remove it to reply directly. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 05:41:38 -0600 Reply-To: fltdeck1@ix.netcom.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Matthew Subject: Re: En: Japanese knotweed, or Bamboo (Polygonum cuspidatum), a MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, This is a follow-up on the Japanese Knotweed (Polygonum Cuspidatum) which apparently has proven to be an excellent source of nectar for beekeepers (NH beekeeper reported 18.5lbs gain in a day!). Before you introduce the plant to your area, be sure to read the research I've found below: From my talk with the local extension agency here in Colorado, and the available reading materials on the web, the Japanese Knotweed can be a severe threat to other ground cover in water-laden or high-humidity areas. It can grow up to 4 ft. per month. The plant is very successful in drowning out surrounding natural landscape. However, like any bamboo related species, it needs a good deal of water to propagate. If you live in a humid state, the plant will run wild. Most the coastal areas have named this plant a severe threat as a noxious weed. (State of Oregon - 'A'-rated noxious weed; Tennessee - Rank 1-'severe threat';Washington State - Class-C noxious weed "weeds are already present in most areas of the state, and control is always at the local level") and the list goes on & on. Here's a USDA map to see if Poygonum Cuspidatum grows in your area: http://plants.usda.gov/plants/fr_mapgen.cgi?symbol=POCU6&rtnscr=qurymenu.html&rtnpar= Not that the knotweed is unpleasant in it's growing characteristics, but that it's 'invasive' & has a 'high potential to spread'. Here's a picture of the plant below: http://herb.biol.uregina.ca/pl-pics/holland/polycus1.jpg Spading or pulling the knotweed will actually help multiply it as the plant is root propagated (& the roots grow up to two feet below the surface). Elimination of the plant includes removing all traces of the root or repetitive cultivation. Here's a great description of the plant characteristics: http://www.webriver.com/tn-eppc/manual/polygo.htm For Colorado, the local extension agency actually recommended the weed if it suited my purposes because the surrounding dry areas and hard-pan will contain it's growth. However, the spring-fed areas of my apiary are likely to grow unheeded and extremely hard to eliminate. Anyone else have anything to add on this plant or recommendations for a fair substitute for beekeeping? Matthew Westall in Colorado ---------------------------------- David Green wrote: > I'd like to buy some; none grows around here. > I don't know if this is applicable, but it is regarded as an alien > > invasive plant, and there may be laws prohibiting its propagation. Its > gotten > pretty common in the northeast. I don't know if it is present in the > northwest, but I bet there are a lot of people that don't want it. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 09:08:05 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Roger Flanders Subject: Re: Filtering - defouling MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Garth, your description of why a tubular filtration system dislodges jams makes sense to me -- I really like the solar power concept, too -- (and you can always get my attention by mentioning breweries), but you lost me when you described the basket in the barrel. Is the "tubular filtering action" created only along the sides of the basket? If that's true, then what about all that honey left in the bottom of the basket-strainer? Maybe S. African laundry baskets are different than Nebraska laundry baskets? What am I missing in your description? --Rog Flanders (who is often bee-wildered by what he reads in this forum) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 10:12:14 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Charles Frederic Andros Subject: Re: Japanese knotweed, or Mexican bamboo (Polygonum cuspidatum), an invasive plant from Japan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Herb, That was a joke about supplying seeds, however, I've had responses from people interested as far as Sweden and Brasil! My standard response is: "Check with your State Department of Agriculture Division of Plant Industry to find out if this plant exists in your area before introducing this plant. It can become weedy! However, it is easily mowed." Charles Andros Linden Apiaries/Boulder Wall Gardens 1 McLean Road Walpole, NH 03608-0165 603-756-9056 lindena@sover.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 10:24:00 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Charles Frederic Andros Subject: Re: Polygonum cuspidatum: dark honey?? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dave Green, I would describe the color as extra light amber, not dark at all. In pure form, it may be even lighter, but it is usually mixed here with Solidago (goldenrod) and Aster. Charles Andros VT/NH Apiary Inspector, '78-'89 Linden Apiaries/Boulder Wall Gardens 1 McLean Road Walpole, NH 03608-0165 603-756-9056 lindena@sover.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 11:54:03 -0400 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Source of yellow honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For the past several years I have extracted a strikingly bright yellow honey from some supers. Most of my honey is the standard white or extra light amber, but this is distinctly different. It's flavor is OK at first, but with a somewhat bitter aftertaste. I have wondered if this might be derived from purple loosestrife, which is proliferating greatly in my area. An oldtimer who is now retired from beekeeping told me that it is from soybeans, which sort of surprised me. I always thought soybean honey was quite light in color. I always extract the entire summer's honey at one time, so I have no idea exactly when this bright yellow honey is being produced. Does anyone have an idea of what this might be? Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 10:47:46 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rett Thorpe Subject: Re: Learning Curve MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > A strong colony requires 35lbs (15.9 kgs) to see it through to the > spring. > Can anyone verify this amount of 35 lbs/hive. I have had the understanding that the amount needed was closer to 80 lbs (Maybe it is 35lbs per hive body?). Obviously this is going to vary with the location, I'm not looking for specifics just a good rule of thumb. On another note; a few weeks ago my wife gave birth to our second child, and she keeps reminding me that honey can be very dangerous for infants, however she can not tell me why. I have heard this from others as well, but I am curious, is this true or a wives tale? If true does anyone know why it is harmful? Last note; I want to thank everyone who responded to my question about re-queening without finding the old queen. Many individuals replied (both on and off the list). I received a couple of methods of re-queening without killing the old queen first, I also had several individuals offer tips on how to locate the current queen. Thanks to all who replied, your thoughts were very appreciated Rett Thorpe Salt Lake City, Utah 2nd year 2 hives ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 14:07:33 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Source of yellow honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Ted Fischer wondered about: > ... a strikingly bright yellow (which) might be derived from purple > loosestrife .... My experience with p. loosestrife honey is that is one of the most easily recognizable varietal honeys anywhere. It has a darkish green hue, very much like a straight 30 weight motor oil. The p. loosestrife honey in these parts would never be described as "a strikingly bright yellow". The flavor description (OK at first, but with a somewhat bitter after taste) agrees with what some have described for p. loosestrife, but I have always found p.l. to be a rather plesant tasting honey. I can't speak to soybeans as a source for the bright yellow honey, but you can definitely rule out loosestrife. Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 14:05:24 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: Mean Hive Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I have a hive which is mean and is difficult to work. It is my intention to add a few tablespoons of sulfur to an old smoker and smoke this hive heavily then block the opening thus killing all inside. The brood combs will be distributed to two nearby hives which will winter over in 3 deeps. This hive is a buckfast supercedure and I am just about done with buckfast bees even though they did fairly well here. Midnites have done better and wintered better and superceded without nearly the mean streak. Things tried thusfar. Moving hive off stand Spraying bees with sugar water Leaving covers off for an hour. Approching this hive with the smoker is good for a dozen stings on a good day and a dozen dive bombers will run you right to the pickup truck. Working the hive has 20-30 bees bouncing off the veil and the rest trying to nail you antywhere conveniant. How long does it take for sulfur fumes to kill the occupants and about how much sulfur should I add to the coals in a smoker? Hate to do this but see no real alternative this late in the season. Tom in CT ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 14:08:46 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Charles Frederic Andros Subject: Re: Introduced plants Comments: To: SYSAM@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit BEE-L: I was looking at the Noxious Plant Manual I found on one of the websites given by Matthew Westall. I noticed that many of the plants listed are honey or pollen plants: "Trees: Mimosa (Albizia julibrissin Durazz) 12 Princess tree (Paulownia tomentosa (Thunb.) Sieb. & Zucc. Stevd.) 16 Tree-of-heaven (Ailanthus altissima (Mill.) Swingle) 22 Shrubs Autumn olive (Elaeagnus umbellata Thunb.) 28 Bush honeysuckles (Lonicera spp.) 32 Japanese barberry (Berberis thunbergii DC.) 38 Multiflora rose (Rosa multiflora Thunb. ex Murr.) 42 Privet (Ligustrum spp.)48 Herbaceous Plants Eurasian water-milfoil (Myriophyllum spicatum L.) 52 Garlic mustard (Alliaria petiolata (M. Bieb.) Cavara & Grande) 56 Japanese grass (Microstegium vimineum (Trin.) A. Camus) 60 Japanese knotweed (Polygonum cuspidatum Sieb. & Zucc.) 64 Japanese spiraea (Spiraea japonica L. f.) 68 Musk thistle (Carduus nutans L.) 72 Purple loosestrife (Lythrum salicaria L.) 76 Vines Climbing euonymus (Euonymus fortunei (Turcz.) Hand. -Mazz.) 82 Japanese honeysuckle (Lonicera japonica Thunb.) 88 Japanese wisteria (Wisteria floribunda (Willd.) DC.) 94 Kudzu (Pueraria montana (Lour.) Merr.) 98 Oriental bittersweet (Celastrus orbiculata Thunb.) 104" Then I started thinking about how many of the honey plants my bees depend on are not native to my area: dandelion, apples, tartarian honeysuckle, glossy buckthorn, black locust, clover, linden, alfalfa, and japanese knotweed. We have considerable Autumn olive, multiflora rose: excellent pollen only, and some loosestrife. For native species, there are the trees that aid spring buildup, such as willows and maples. Later are the berries, sumacs, milkweed, basswood, goldenrod, and aster. It is a fact that an invasive plant can become mono-cultural, hence efficient for the bees to harvest. How about sweet clover, our fruit crops such as oranges, and the pepper and melaleuca of Florida that are so liked by bees? Many native species have been marginalized by invaders for centuries and will continue to be as global trade increases. Why cry about it? Super up! Charles Andros My address: Linden Apiaries/Boulder Wall Gardens 1 McLean Road Walpole, NH 03608-0165 603-756-9056 lindena@sover.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 14:17:07 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: Re: Source of yellow honey Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit My yellow honey in CT USA is always early spring-perhaps the maple trees. Only available if you feed as early in the season as possible to be strong for this flow. Tom ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 14:27:38 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Charles Frederic Andros Subject: Re: loosestrife MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aaron, I saw some supposed loosestrife in Canada that was bright yellow. They claimed they got 6000 lbs. from 24 colonies in Yamaska, which town is on the river of the same name that runs north into the St. Lawrence. I think here was some dandelion mixed in, but I don't think all loosestrife is dark. It looks greenish if you look at it at the right angle, correct? Charles Andros Linden Apiaries/Boulder Wall Gardens 1 McLean Road Walpole, NH 03608-0165 603-756-9056 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 14:43:02 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Charles Frederic Andros Subject: Re: Mean Hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tom, Why not requeen this hive by making a nuc over with sealed brood from below? Wear double thickness clothing and gloves if needed. Give them the mint syrup spray and plenty! Shake off bees off brood so as not to need find the queen. Pick lots of sealed brood, then smoke lots of bees up through an excluder with a screen on top. When bees cover top bars, spray bees through screen, and put screen under box, using a rear entrance. Introduce a nice Carniolan queen, forget the midnites! Feed the nuc to assure acceptance. After 2 weeks, turn the top unit around. Feed heavily! During the winter, the bees will drift up from below and abandon the old bitch! Come spring, they'll be gentle as kittens, with a faster buildup and more production than Midnites. Charles Andros Linden Apiaries/Boulder Wall Gardens 1 McLean Road Walpole, NH 03608-0165 603-756-9056 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 16:18:12 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Winter Stores and botulism Rett wonders how much honey is needed to get through the winter. As you say, Rett, it depends on where you are in the country. Exhaustive studies at Cornell during the 1960 s established 60 pounds as safe for upstate NY, where I am. I understand Ohio State and Penn State have arrived at just about the same numbers for their Ohio and Central to Western Pa. On the other hand, I recently read a report that said 115 pounds is safe for Minnesota. This is one of those areas where you can get the "best" information from members of your bee club...but be prepared for them to differ a great deal in their advice. The botulism situation for infants, as far as I know, is that their (infant s) immune system cannot combat botulism until age 18 months or so. Apparently, honey can harbor low, not dangerous to adult health, levels of botulism. Ergo, infants should not consume honey. I also understand that this is all theory and no infant death has ever been blamed on botulism from honey. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 20:18:24 +1200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Organization: Bay of Plenty Polytechnic Subject: Re: Learning Curve MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > On another note; a few weeks ago my wife gave birth to our > second child, and she keeps reminding me that honey can be very > dangerous for infants, however she can not tell me why. I have heard > this from others as well, but I am curious, is this true or a wives > tale? If true does anyone know why it is harmful? You can read an annotated bibliography on honey and infant botulism at: http://www.beekeeping.co.nz/biblio9.htm (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- home nickw@beekeeping.co.nz (/ work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz NZ Beekeeping http://www.beekeeping.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 20:37:15 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Tout Subject: Re: Apistan and Menthol treat different mites! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Work in Germany suggests that the use of Thymol can also be effective against Varroa. The suggestion has been made that the fumes disrupt the females breeding behaviour but I don't know if this has been confirmed. I don't have an e-mail address but understand the application method has been developed by a Franz Knobelspeis, 78570 Mulheim, Stettin. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 19:06:48 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andrew & Tiffany Dubas Subject: hello fello beekeepers. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001E_01BDDC24.FE6E0B40" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01BDDC24.FE6E0B40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello I'm new to B-L :) my name is Andrew I am 24 and have = been keeping bees since I was 10 years old. and since then I have turned = a long time hobby into a business. we have around 70 colonies of bees. = My wife Tiffany does all the candles. it is exciting. a lot of work but = very rewarding. we mostly do flea markets and craft shows to sell our = honey, we wholesale a lot. we got close to 4000 pounds from the = spring/summer flow. we are now trying to devise a gift package of some = sort. we found that we do well at flea markets but most people at flea = markets seem to be looking for deals or a cheap gift. anyone have ideas = ? we like how Walter T Kelly has the wooden gift crates for honey so = who knows, add in a little honey filled candy, honey stix > ? other then = that our bees are doing well, still getting APISTAN in and terra = patties, I probably won't take honey from the fall flow. I would rather = my bees be healthy and have plenty of honey stores, cause going back and = feeding 70 colonies in January because I took to much honey in the fall = is no fun. so anyway anyone else having problems with their bees ? mites = ? .... =20 what is honey going for in your area ? what are you charging for pollination ? anyone killing other bees for $$$ ? like wasps/hornets ? if so what = do you charge ? what is your method ? because I get lots of calls for = getting rid of wasps etc.=20 =20 talk to all you fellow beekeepers later. =20 Andrew =20 ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01BDDC24.FE6E0B40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
     Hello I'm new to = B-L  :) my name is Andrew I am 24 and have been keeping bees = since I=20 was 10 years old. and since then I have turned a long time hobby = into a=20 business. we have around 70 colonies of bees. My wife Tiffany does = all the=20 candles. it is exciting. a lot of work but very rewarding. we mostly = do flea=20 markets and craft shows to sell our honey, we wholesale a lot. we = got close=20 to 4000 pounds from the spring/summer flow.  we are now trying = to=20 devise a gift package of some sort. we found that we do well at flea = markets=20 but most people at flea markets seem to be looking for deals or a = cheap=20 gift. anyone have ideas ? we like how  Walter T Kelly has the = wooden=20 gift crates for honey so who knows, add in a little honey filled = candy,=20 honey stix > ? other then that our bees are doing well, still = getting=20 APISTAN in and terra patties, I probably won't take honey from the = fall=20 flow. I would rather my bees be healthy and have plenty of honey = stores,=20 cause going back and feeding 70 colonies in January because I took = to much=20 honey in the fall is no fun. so anyway anyone else having problems = with=20 their bees ? mites ?   ....
 
what is honey going for in your area ?
what are = you=20 charging for pollination ?
anyone killing other bees for $$$ ? = like=20 wasps/hornets ? if so what do you charge ? what is your method ? = because I=20 get lots of calls for getting rid of wasps etc.
 
talk to all you fellow = beekeepers=20 later.
 
Andrew   =
------=_NextPart_000_001E_01BDDC24.FE6E0B40-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 19:54:44 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: Re: Mean Hive Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Well I went and did it sulfur fumed the hive and taped it shut til morning. Tomorrow the deeps will get aired out and placed on two other hives. Come spring I will order a few queens and make some splits, Being in a residential setting did not allow the luxury of requeening as this hive was very aggressive. Friday I will go to the Farmers market with pints and quarts of honey maybe selling a few cases will take the sting out. Tom in CT ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 19:10:37 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Charles Frederic Andros Subject: Re: Source of yellow honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tom, That early yellow honey is dandelion. Charles Andros My address: Linden Apiaries/Boulder Wall Gardens 1 McLean Road Walpole, NH 03608-0165 603-756-9056 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 01:32:56 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Mean Hive Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Thomas Cornick writes regarding killing the bees. If this is regretfully the only option I would mention the following. Beekeepers in our association tend to use petrol (gasoline) if they are obliged to kill the bees. Wait until evening when all the bees are in and pour a pint of petrol into the feed hole, seal up the hive and they all die fairly quickly. Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland e mail cssl@iol.ie Tel + 353 1 289 5269 Fax + 353 1 289 9940 Latitude 53 Degrees 16' North Longitude 6 Degrees 9' West of Greenwich ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 01:53:50 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Queens in Spring Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Tom in CT advises that sentence has been carried out on the troublesome hive. Tom also mentions that he is going to get some queens in the Spring. (My apologies to all members outside Ireland for the local nature of what follows!). I cannot purchase a queen here in Ireland before July next as they are just not available to my knowledge. Any Irish beekeepers available to help me out?. The Irish Authorities will not permit me to import queens because of varroa, so I am not allowed to look for queens abroad. Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland e mail cssl@iol.ie Tel + 353 1 289 5269 Fax + 353 1 289 9940 Latitude 53 Degrees 16' North Longitude 6 Degrees 9' West of Greenwich ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 22:45:46 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "John R. Valentine" Subject: Yuor mean bees Comments: To: BeeCrofter@aol.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I have found that a nasty hive is usually the best producer, however. All you need to do is requeen and in a few weeks things will change with the birth of your new stock. It's better to go into the winter with the hive, even if you can't manage to deal with their behavior. Your still one hive ahead after any winter losses. In the spring they will be weaker and gentler. You could always requeen at that time too. John CT ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 01:33:40 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Green Subject: Re: Mean Hive Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/10/98 12:17:29 AM Eastern Daylight Time, (Tom Barrett) cssl@IOL.IE writes: > Thomas Cornick writes regarding killing the bees. If this is regretfully the > only option I would mention the following. > > Beekeepers in our association tend to use petrol (gasoline) if they are > obliged to kill the bees. Wait until evening when all the bees are in and > pour a pint of petrol into the feed hole, seal up the hive and they all die > fairly quickly. Good Grief!! That much gasoline will run right through and contaminate the ground. Who wants to add a known carcinogen to ground water? A quarter cup will kill the bees. It will also ruin the equipment. After weeks of airing out, bees probably still won't stand for these frames in a hive, so I could only see it in case of foulbrood, where the equipment will also be burned. People are waaaaaaay to free to slop around gasoline! And it is showing up in more and more wells. We just had a large area recently where wells have turned up contaminated with gas and whole neighborhoods were forced to connect to public water supplies. Once contaminated, it may take generations to cleanse ground water supplies. Tom, I thought Europeans were much more environmentally conscious than most Americans. You just shot my stereotype all to bits! Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html The Pollination Home Page: http://www.pollinator.com Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 01:18:27 -0800 Reply-To: beeman@gci.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tom Elliott Organization: Home Subject: Re: Winter Stores and botulism MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lloyd Spear wrote: > The botulism situation for infants, as far as I know, is that their (infants) immune system > cannot combat botulism until age 18 months or so. This is the case on a small minority of infants. Most very young babies can safely eat honey. Honey was a part of infant formulas for many many years. The question is not can infants eat honey safely, but do I want to take the chance that my infant is one of the minority? > Apparently, honey can harbor low, not dangerous to adult health, levels of botulism. In fact in adults and most infants no level of botulin spores is of any consequence. It is only that in some few under developed digestive systems the spores can actually grow and thus release their very dangerous toxin. > I also understand that this is all theory and no infant death has ever been blamed on botulism from honey. I believe no actual source of any infant botulism has been pinpointed, largely because botulin spores are ubiquitous in our world. They are found everywhere. -- "Test everything. Hold on to the good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21) Tom Elliott Chugiak, Alaska U.S.A. beeman@gci.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 11:12:45 +0100 Reply-To: mpym@hive.netkonect.co.uk Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Madeleine Pym Subject: Re: Learning Curve-infants and honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Rett, Congratulations to your wife. The reason there is cocern over giving honey to infants under a year old is to do with some honey having been found to contain botulism. I am in the UK and MAFF (Ministry for Agriculture and Fishery) issued a bulletin on this. They have said that there have been no record incidents of this occuring in UK honey. It has bee found in sources of honey from overseas. This is from memory, if you want to know more I will look it out for you. But I think they were implying that it may be to do with poor hygiene in production methods. Madeleine Pym, London beekeeper ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 07:46:05 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: Re: Mean Hive Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Soil contaminated with gasoline and petroleum ends up being burned in cement kilns at great expense in this country.(USA) Half a dozen lawyers and at least as many government agencies will be all over a spill these days. Engineers will be hired to map the gasoline plume in the ground and test borings will be made and sniffed with gas chromatographs. All in all somebody ends up with his land all dug up and his finances bankrupt. I chose to use sulfur because these bees were almost unapproacable and the fumes repel the guards/attackers long enough to stuff some foam rubber into the entrance and the nozzle of the smoker into the upper drilled hole. I look at having to kill a hive as a screw up on my part in general- I am taking my loss in the fall and concentrating my efforts on the hives that are good gentle producers. Of 31 hives only 5 are on land that I myself own and I have to be a good guest. Tom in CT ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 08:17:36 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard Barnes Subject: Botulism Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain If I read the press release right. Unpasturized apple juice will now carry a warning about botulism. Unpasturized apple juice has the same problem as honey. No way to wash (sterilize) the product without ruining the "natural" flavor and some of the proteins. Richard Barnes richard.barnes1@halliburton.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 11:46:25 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Internet access to and from albany.edu down Friday night MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT A news item being distributed to the University at Albany user community follows. Basically what this means to BEE-L subscribers is that mail will not be able to reach BEE-L nor will it be distributed from BEE-L during the upgrade hours. When the upgrade is complete, submissions and distributions will be processed as normal. Nothing will get lost, things will merely be delayed. "Internet access to and from albany.edu will be down Friday night. During the period of time between Friday 9/11 at 11:00pm and Saturday 9/12 at 6:00am the network connecting the University to the internet will be upgraded. While the upgrade is taking place, access from albany.edu to the internet as well as access from outside to albany.edu will be unavailable. Work on the network will not continue for the entire 7 hours listed above, but users should be aware that sudden interruptions and extended down times may occur during this time." Aaron Morris - thinking sleeping through the upgrade hours is a good idea! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 09:12:59 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: Botulism Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:17 AM 9/10/98 -0500, you wrote: >If I read the press release right. Unpasturized apple juice will now carry >a warning about botulism. Unpasturized apple juice has the same problem as >honey. No way to wash (sterilize) the product without ruining the "natural" >flavor and some of the proteins. Hi Richard and Honey Lovers, We got to stick together! If true its sad and really is one way of stopping the sale of "unpasteurized apple juice" as we have done with unpasteurized milk. I guess it is not enough today to provide information to the consumer about "risks" and let us make up our own minds as we may make the wrong choice according to some bureaucrat or academic. I think its called dumbing down, it seems that here in the US we are doing a lot of this and today we all await the public release on the Internet of a report of a dumb president that got into trouble because of it or is there a difference between going down and dumbing down. I guess when you are the President of the United States and do it on the job with a intern it really demostrates to the world of the dumbing down of morals in American politicians if nothing else. If this dumb labeling was applied to packaged honey that would not bee good other then most commercial honey is also pasteurized and filtered in the packaging process and I would assume that would reduce the problem but would not help in the case of a open container at the consumer level that will receive the natural botulism spores that are in dust from the home. Honey at the producer level does contain several nasty sounding things such as: "Osmophilic Yeast <100/gm Total Aerobic Mesophilic <1000/gm Sulphite Anaeroobic Reducing Spores <100/gm Coliforms <1/gm Clostridium Botulinum <1gm" At least the honey produced in Australia does according to the information advertised for the world to see on their web page as "Australian Honey Quality Specifications": http://www.wescobee.com/Netscape/fi.htm To label this kind of information as "quality specifications" would seem to be a mistake, at least to me, in the English translation as by inference any honey that does not contain these contaminants is of less quality, and value, which puts the good conscientious honey producer who takes care in how honey is handled at a disadvantage or is this just taking honesty in advertising to a new level. I wonder if Australia will also volunteer to include this information on the containers for honey they export? I can see it now,,,, PURE H-O-N-E-Y PRODUCED IN AUSTRALIA Guaranteed to contain both botulism and coliform! Sure sounds like some of the stuff the UN is looking for in Iraq doomsday weapons. Our babies are doomed, but not to worry in America new chemicals everyday are being allowed in honey and in time adults will also catch up with the infants and Dr. Death will include honey in his "end it all cocktail" for us old timers. ttul, the OLd Drone http://beenet.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 12:25:39 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Mean Hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >smoke this hive heavily then block the opening thus killing all inside. >The brood combs will be distributed to two nearby hives which will winter over >in 3 deeps. >This hive is a buckfast supercedure and I am just about done with buckfast >bees even though they did fairly well here. >Midnites have done better and wintered better and superceded without nearly >the mean streak. I sympathise with Tom having just done this myself. For the first time in 50 years I had to kill a hive this year. Buckfast in origin, allowed to superscede to maintain the genetics, turned into the worst hive I've ever handled, and I have three more not quite so bad. Can only describe them as the worst of the African traits. Even smoke didn't put them down, in fact they came at you more, with, than without smoke. Some one I was talking to thought Br Adam did the wrong thing in adding African bees to the mix. Seems they will hand off DNA to the female on mating, unlike European bees which can't do that trick. So carry that thought further, subsequent supercedure adding more and more regressive traits? Sounds like a major problem to me. Anyone else suffering? ************************************************************ The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia, ON. L3V 6H1. Canada. Phone (705) 326 7171 Fax (705) 325 3461 David Eyre. Owner. beeworks@muskoka.net www.muskoka.net/~beeworks *********************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 13:56:32 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Buckfast Dave wrote..."I sympathize with Tom having just done this myself. For the first time in 50 years I had to kill a hive this year. Buckfast in origin, allowed to supersede to maintain the genetics, turned into the worst hive I've ever handled, and I have three more not quite so bad." Dave, were these from Canadian breeders or from Texas (before the embargo)? I have heard from a lot of hobbyists that their Buckfasts from Texas can be extremely mean...not always, but sometimes. Moreover, out of several queens introduced, usually only 1 or 2 are mean. I've been mentally blaming this on Africanized drones, although both Weavers maintain their drone saturation precludes this. The Texas Dept. of Ag. has been examining workers from Weaver open mated queens and maintains that they have not found any Africanized evidence...but I still wonder. I personally used Buckfast queens for several years (in the 60's) and found them very gentle and extremely prolific. With good New World Carnolians being extremely resistant to tracheal mites, I do not see why any beekeeper in the Northern states (or Canada) would want to use Buckfast produced in Texas and take any risk concerning the Africanized traits. Any thoughts from others? Lloyd ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 15:08:38 -0700 Reply-To: gclewis@penn.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Gary C. Lewis" Subject: Hives inspected. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Fine Fellow Bee People, I had the Pennsylvania State Bee Inspector here a few weeks back. Happy to say my hive are doing very well. We did a roll for both (about 400 bees each) hives and found one (1) V.mite in one roll and none in the other. Needless to say I am very happy.The inspector was surprised as I had not treated for V.mite.I found no reason to. when ever I went into the hives I always opened a number of drone cells and all that I opened were clean. Early on there was a bit of chalk brood but that has all been cleaned out by the very strong hives. If all goes well I hope to make it to next spring with a good start on the season. I have lots of pollen coming in now, golden rod is strong here in Pa at this time of year, and I was able to sneak a bit of honey from a few supers while we were going through the hives. I run a 2 super system, the 3rd and 4th suppers are for my honey. I have not put on the 4th super and don't think I will. I will take just a little honey for myself and let the bees keep all the rest. I don't want to suffer the loses I did last year. I will also treat for the V.mite very soon. They can build up really fast as we all know. I will be ordering my new supers, frames and foundation this winter and have all ready for next spring. I plan on trying to get up to at least 5 hives from the two I have now. I think I may be able to do it. I hope everyone else is having a good season this year. Just wanted to spread the good news. No one here seemed to understand my excitement over my inspection results. I tried to explain but it went right past them. Thank you for your time. Gary C. Lewis Duke Center, Pa. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 10:18:06 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Learning Curve MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Can anyone verify this amount of 35 lbs/hive. I have had the >understanding that the amount needed was closer to 80 lbs > (Maybe it is 35lbs per hive body?). Obviously this is going to >vary with the location, I'm not looking for specifics just a good rule >of thumb. Certainly wouldn't do in our neck of the woods. We require 2 boxes full. Quick math, each frame holds 7lbs X 10 frames = 70lbs X 2 =140lbs give or take a bit. Keeping bees short of sealed stores in the spring holds back the build up. If you don't want to spring stimulated, then in our area this is a minimum. ************************************************************ The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia, ON. L3V 6H1. Canada. Phone (705) 326 7171 Fax (705) 325 3461 David Eyre. Owner. beeworks@muskoka.net www.muskoka.net/~beeworks *********************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 18:35:21 -0700 Reply-To: pyramid@epix.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pyramid Subject: Increases Comments: To: gclewis@penn.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a recent post, Gary Lewis mentioned getting ready to increase next year and I assume he was talking about splits. FWIW, I have just about given up on splits and make my increases using bait hive captures, 4 in 97 and 3 this year. Although these hives begin later in the season than do the splits, they seem more vigorous and winter better. The bait hives are 5 frame boxes with one or more old, drawn combs. So far, I have not used pheromones but intend to try them next year. The bait hives are hung or shelved in trees that I can conveniently service with an 8' ladder. They seem to be more successful when placed along flyways of sorts, such as railroads, roads or rivers. This is NE Penna. Goldenrod, aster, and Japanese bamboo (just completed} Burns ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 18:43:33 -0400 Reply-To: beesbest@mediaone.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Kathy Organization: Red Maple Farm Subject: Re: Thymol (was Apistan and Menthol treat different mites!) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John Tout wrote: > Work in Germany suggests that the use of Thymol can also be effective > against Varroa. The suggestion has been made that the fumes disrupt the > females breeding behaviour but I don't know if this has been confirmed. I'm guessing from the smell that one of the essential oils that we are using in some of our hives this fall as part of a study for Jennifer Finley and Dianna Sammataro (@ Penn State) is thymol. I hadn't asked which oils we got because I didn't want to have any pre-concieved notions about which (if any) might work against the evil vampire mites. Perhaps someone else on the list is participating in the study also and knows whether thymol is one of the oils being tested? Will let you all know when we get our results... and will ask Jennifer or Diana to post a short summary of the whole study when/if they can. Kathy ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 12:08:56 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: ddavidd Subject: Re: Mean Hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I just started with my first have getting a second this week. I was wondering about you mean hive or their behavior. When you say you cannot approach them. do you mean they just start attacking. are they able to sting thru the suit ? How far away from the hive can you get before they become aggressive ? what do you do when the hive becomes aggresive ? will they stop if you move away ? none of the books i have read seem to deal with what to do in this situation ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 17:53:35 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Barricklow, Walt" Subject: mite control MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It has never ceases to amaze me how in the US we ban chemicals, used in other countries for the control of varroa mites, and then let the honey big boys, import honey from those same countries and feed it to us. It costs me lots of money to be in compliance. I know that my honey is in compliance too. but does this make a difference in taste.? I always heard "right or wrong, it really dosen't matter. The law is the law." Should that not be for all, not just those at the bottom of the food chain. I guess they are to busy chasing interns in the white house, and hold us accountable for little things, such as trying to make an honest living. WALT in Barnwell SC ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 23:25:02 +0100 Reply-To: mpym@hive.netkonect.co.uk Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Madeleine Pym Subject: Re: Botulism and other things MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Old Drone is right, our babies are doomed. I am prepared to testify to the sin of feeding both my sons honey well before the age of 6 months when I used it to sweeten their first baby cereal, and now I am reaping the rewards. They hang around honey pots all day given the chance, well I should say all night really because they have acquired the ability to sleep right through any amount of buzzing whether it be alarm clocks or telephones until around 3 or 4pm. Then they take a flight or two out for a while only to return hungry and tired and searching the larder for stores. I have tried stopping feeding them and managed to push one of them out when he had missed a couple of meals, even though he's about 6 inches taller than me. But he still keeps coming back, especially on Sundays for some reason. What am I to do? What's more they never do any work around the house or bring home anything useful apart from the trail of dirt on the soles of their feet. But I jest! What I mean to say is what a load of nonsense really all this is. The English always used to have a great deal of faith in eating one's peck of dirt in a life time in order to stay well, now we have gotten afraid to drink out of a cup if it hasn't been through the dish washer. BUT ON TO MORE SERIOUS THINGS Alternative ways to 'euthanaise' your bees. It's no longer 'PC' to say KILL. My father uses chloroform when he has a colony that is badly infected with acarine. He has recently started to wonder whether one could give a smaller dose, not enough to kill the bees, but sufficient to knock out and, sorry, 'euthanaise' the acarine. If this were possible it would presumably mean there were no contaminants left in the hive afterwards. OK, the adult bees would be pretty sick still, but there would be no acarine to reinfest, and the brood could all emerge to their brave new world free of acarine. My thoughts are that it would not destroy the eggs and they would then cause a second outbreak but you could give a timely follow up treatment surely. What do you learned folks think. Could it work on other wee beasties too. Fortunately for him his stocks rarely ever get acarine - since he got rid of the New Zealand queen he bought - so it will have to remain a theory for the foreseeable future. FINALLY Unless I am mistaken I am NOT a gentleman, so does protocol mean I am excluded from having any opinions about beekeeping. I refer to a recent mailing to this line which started something like 'Dear Gentleman', it certainly did offend this Bee-L member and you have all narrowly missed a mailing with as much sting in its tail as anything Andy Nachbaur can dish out. A somewhat spikey feeling Madeleine Pym, Still just a beekeeper, not a candle maker, or even a good honey cake maker. (By the way my youngest son asked me to point out that I am lying barefacedly about them never doing any housework, etc. what's more he is training to be a professional chef and says he doesn't need me to feed him anyway - not that I'd have time to with all those demanding females to look after at the bottom of my garden.) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 19:27:14 -0400 Reply-To: mpalmer@together.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Palmer Organization: French Hill Apiaries Subject: Buckfast temper MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There's been some talk lately about the temper of Buckfast bees. One reporter says they were gentle as kittens in the 60's, but now they are somewaht agressive. Thinks they might be bred with african drones. I think Buckfast bees have always been on the agressive side. My first commercial bee job was managing 500 colonies for an orchard in NW New York. The year before I started, 1981, the manager bought queens from just about everybody. 10 of these, and 25 of those. 15 of this breeder, and a bunch of Buckfast. At that time, most of the bees were of Italian lines - yellow bees mostly. The Buckfast bees were dark colored. Well, you didn't have to open a colony to tell if they were Buckfast. Walking by the entrance was all that was necessary. Most of the Buckfasts were mean, ankle biting so and so's. They'd cover your pants from the knees to the ankles. Always black bees never yellow ones. I got rid of most of them, until the tracheal mites showed up. Then it was the Buckfast's time to shine. Testy as ever, especially the bees from f1 and f2 queens(daughter and grand daughter queens). Now you can tell the Italian bees without opening the cover - they're all dead! Mike ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 19:56:14 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garry Libby Subject: Re: Mean Hive In-Reply-To: <009301bddcd8$64015ee0$3b6879d1@office> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, I made two splits this past summer and used swarm cells from My Buckfast hives. These hives are as gentle as all of My other Buckfast hives. I love the Buckfast bees, I currently have nine Buckfast hives and almost always can work these bees without smoke(only using smoke to get them out of the way when I put the boxes back together). Maybe Your Buckfast virgin queens mated with another race, that could cause the meanness. I don't think a race of bees should be pronounced "bad" because of a few incidents. All races of bees available for sale do well, it is mostly personal preference that determines what kind of bee You buy (except in extreme weather conditions).And while We are on the subject, awhile back someone said they were not going to buy Weavers' Buckfast bees because Weaver was in the area that currently has AHB. That is not true, The Texas Apiary Inspector Dr P.Jackson of Texas A&M, spoke at The Mass Beekeepers Meeting, and told Us that the AHB territory is nowhere near Weavers. Garry Libby Boston, USA LibBEE@email.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 15:18:02 -1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pat Franklin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aloha, I am looking for Apiary management shareware or freeware. Does anybody have any suggestions? Pat Franklin Puna, The big island of Hawaii pat@aloha.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 22:11:08 -0400 Reply-To: dublgully@worldnet.att.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Gaida Subject: NEEDING SOME HELP MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My husband, Dave, and I, Judy, are in our second year as beekeepers. Were only gonna have 3 hives, tops, now have 11. Started a local bee club and are having great meetings. Most of the members are new beekeepers and we are trying to learn together. Sometimes, however, no one seems to know a good answer. Maybe one of you more experienced beekeepers can help. One member ordered three packages of Italian bees last spring. Installed them and all went well. Approximately 4 weeks later he called and asked us to come and look at his bees. We went over and one hive had many workers crawling on the ground in front of the hive. When we picked one or two up, there was no sting reflex. As we had an extremely wet spring and this beekeeper's bees were in the bottoms, near a creek, we suggested it may be nosema. Asked if he had treated with Fumidil, he stated no because an old beekeeper told him you never have to treat new package bees. Well, we said we believe in safe rather than sorry, and since his bees were still building up and drawing out foundation and he would not be getting a spring honey flow anyway, maybe he should treat with Fumidil. He decided to try it. Worked out well, and the bees recovered wonderfully. Ended up being his strongest hive. Now to the current problem. This same hive is now throwing out larvae. He says they are varying ages of larvae. He says it is still his strongest hive but he is concerned because none of the other hives do this larvae pitching. This guy really is in touch with his bees, loves to take a sleeping bag out and lay in front of the hives and watch them. That is how he spotted the larvae pitching. Once he realized what they were doing, he has been checking the ground and has found many larvae. I asked about the possibility of a high cleaning hive and maybe there was some mite damage or disorder that they were cleaning. He said he has checked brood and not found many varroa but was going to treat soon. We are just starting goldenrod and aster and just finishing with wild cucumbers and wild sunflowers. Appreciate any help and your giving of your time and knowledge. Thanks. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 23:12:07 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: DNBrown Subject: Loosestrife and knotweed Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" In my area, near a riverbank, there's lots of purple loosestrife. The nectar in uncapped cells is greenish, almost fluorescent. It looks a little like motor oil. I can tell by the color when the loosestrife flow is on. Because of my wildflower mix, there's no bitter aftertaste, but the honey is a little green in color. Japanese knotweed may be good forage but I have some on my land and it is **agressive**! In the spring, a few shoots come up, then before I know it I have five foot plants all over. I have one area I try to keep as lawn because you cannot walk through the knotweed and my mulch pile is back there. I dig roots and chop young shoots and pull up the older plants, a lot of effort but if I didn't the entire quarter acre would be knotweed. Because of terrain, I can't eradicate it. In winter it turns into trashy hollow stalks that serve to keep other plants down in springtime. Yes it is edible, in spring, before the stalks get woody. It tastes a little like rhubarb but not as sweet. I have made knotweed pie that is pretty good, and fresh shoots dipped in honey or sugar are pretty tasty. I would never deliberately plant this stuff, unless I was *very* careful about just where, and watched it closely. Once established it will be very difficult to get rid of. Nearby I have swamps and wetland, and much of the shady margin is knotweed and nothing else grows there. DB ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 10:38:58 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Mean Hive Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" David Green states that gasoline is not the way to kill off a hive because of the carcinogenic effect of the gasoline, and its effect on the ground water. I believe David makes a good point. I will therefore take up the question of using gasoline with one or two local beekeepers who are supporters of the use of this product. What is the preferred way of killing off a hive.? Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland e mail cssl@iol.ie Tel + 353 1 289 5269 Fax + 353 1 289 9940 Latitude 53 Degrees 16' North Longitude 6 Degrees 9' West of Greenwich ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 07:08:18 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ricardo Vergueiro Subject: botulism Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi everybody!!! I read somewhere that any child before the 6th month of life will never need honey or anything else but his/her mother's milk. Besides the risk of botulism one can note that comparatively to the mother's milk, honey won't provide no extra benefit to the newborn... So why bother???? After the 6th month, his/her body will be strong enough handle it. Hope this helps. Ricardo Vergueiro ricverg@printline.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 13:00:10 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: tubular fitler Hi Roger/all In response to you question yesterday about the laundry basket suspended in the black barrel. You asked whether the tubular filtering activity was created only along the sides and what happens to all the honey left at the base afterwards. I geuss first I must explain our laundry baskets. They stan about hip high and about half that wide at the top, tapering to a bit less than that at the bottom. All around the basket (which is smooth white plastic) are large egg sized oval holes. I placed normal sheeting as a filter on the inside and attached it by means of small plastic bolts (like the ones for number plates) and rubber washers. As the honey filters it does clogg the cloth, but because gunk rises, most of it blocks near the top, not the bottom. This is not a real tubul;ar filter as a result as there is no real downward flow, but it does beat the normal system as one has a far greater surface are through which filtering occures, you use the sun, and you get the gunk rising to the surface. I forgot to mention that the barrels I use are old food grade alcohol barrels - these have a small coating on the inside which stops rust etc. I am trying to get some of Cokes mystery formula barrels as their formula is very acidic and hence the barrels are stainless and the exact right size. When I make a place to insert the laundry basket I trimmed out the bottom of the barrel with a jigsaw (high speed steel light metal blades) and hence am able to use the unscrew cap on the other side as a draining point - one then jut places a bucket below the bin every few hours and drains out the honey so that there is an incentive for the honey to move out of the basket (if honey backs up agains the filter no filtering occurs naturally). As for the gooey mess at the bottom - I leave the whole setup in a cool spot, scrape it out with a spatchelor and put it in a tub, cover it with polystyrene chips and place it in one of my hives at home. They clean it up quite well. Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis Eastern Cape Prov. South Africa Time = Honey After careful consideration, I have decided that if I am ever a V.I.P the I. may not stand for important. (rather influential, ignorant, idiotic, intelectual, illadvised etc) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 07:34:37 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Hunter Williams Subject: Re: Learning Curve Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit honey contains very small amounts of the botulism bacteria. This bacteria produces the most powerful bacterial toxin known to man. Fortunately, it occurs in such small amounts that the normal immune system can knock it down without trouble. Infants, however, are a different story. Supposedly, their immune systems (as well as those of the very elderly) aren't up to the challenge. Its a shame infants have to miss out on honey, but there is no reason for anybody to take unnecessary risks. Hope I could help, Hunter in S. Florida ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 08:58:44 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard Bonney Subject: Re: Mean Hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have read that gasoline or kerosene in a saucer or other shallow container will kill a colony. Slide the saucer onto the bottom board and seal the openings of the hive. The fumes do the job. Recover the gasoline afterwards. I haven't tried it myself. Dick Bonney rebonney@rebonney.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 07:11:46 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: Learning Curve botulism In-Reply-To: <8919ea8.35f90acd@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 07:34 AM 9/11/98 -0400, you wrote: Hi Honey Producers & Honey Consumers! Hunter remarked: >honey contains very small amounts of the botulism bacteria. This bacteria >produces the most powerful bacterial toxin known to man. Many believe this, the question could be can we as honey producers and honey consumers reduce the amount of spores by changing our own actions such as covering supers of honey with dust proof covering when transporting supers of honey from the bee yard to the extracting site or on our own tables? I don't know the answer just asking the question. >Fortunately, it occurs in such small amounts that the normal immune system can knock it down >without trouble. This must be true as people including their infants and children have been eating honey for several generations since we left the trees and there is nothing to indicate in our written records of a massive man or even a baby kill because of it. A tie to crib death has not been linked to botulism as once was claimed by a certain zealot in the California State Department of Health who was singly responsible for the campaign against honey. One rotten bureaucrat can increase the amount of anxiety in the life of all who live in the honey barrel. >Infants, however, are a different story. Supposedly, their immune systems (as well as those of the very >elderly) aren't up to the challenge. Its a shame infants have to miss out on honey, but there is no >reason for anybody to take unnecessary risks. Some say with authority that what you say about infants is true, I have never seen anything at all about older humans having any problem at all with normal use of honey in their diets and doubt there is any such information. I think there is confusing information or thoughts on immune systems because of our new knowledge of AIDS and this is not what we experience as we age but of course in any serious health problems there are changes made in our life but in the majority of ageing persons even with problems of the ageing the use and even increased use of honey to replace other sweeteners is a positive experience and may even extend life for some of the same reasons some mother's are careful about feeding to much honey to babies. As for the infants...I have read the record of those who proposed botulism in honey as a threat to infants in the legislature of California and then in the courts and I was not convinced of a problem or were the majority of others who were interested other then those on the fringe who proposed the idea in the first place. The honey industry went along with the orders of the court to supply information to infant care givers because it was the least costly alternative the other being years of costly litigation over including "infant warnings" on every consumer container of honey. Some say that it reduces our liability as honey producers but this is not true and anyone who thinks that the death of any infant that could be prevented is not serious has no heart and may be their own worst enemy. If there is no liability it is because there is no real danger that could be prevented by excluding honey in the infants diet. IMHO Mothers who do not mind changing diapers should not fear the use of honey as a sugar replacement in children's food, those who would rather not maybe should at least wait until the infants can be potty trained as the real documented effect of honey on infants is softening of the stools. But please remember I am not a doctor or lawyer and what I am repeating is only the experience of others who also may not be doctors or lawyers and only parents if that makes any difference. The truth is that if you put some strains of natural occurring botulism in honey it will not disappear on its own. Most honey at retail has little or no botulism but any honey once the container is opened will in time be contaminated with any botulism that is present in the dust of the living area, which is true for most any foods. Honey used in processed food that are cooked do not contain viable botulism until those foods are opened and exposed. I am not recommending the feeding of honey to infants as I don't recommend the dosing of their bottle with wine to promote peaceful afternoon naps which may or may not lead to alcoholism in the adult child. ttul, the OLd Drone http://beenet.com (c)Permission is given to copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 18:13:28 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Sandra Johnson Subject: hive inspection and other Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I have two comments for the list. Congratulations to Pennsylvania beekeeper, Gary C. Lewis on your good hive report. My partner and I were in the same boat awhile back, with no one to readily share our excitement about our own first hive inspection from the Nebraska state bee inspector. Charlie was a superb inspector; he was kind and supportive, offering opinions and advice to our questions and always couched in terms of his own experience or the latest research knowledge he was aware of. Plus, he had a deliciously sly sense of humor. While we didn't get a clean report like Gary, we were grateful to learn that we definitively had varroa. We were able to begin Apistan treatment and requeen three hives, two of which seem to be progressing very well. Our aim is to get the hives through the winter and off to another healthier spring. As relatively new hobbyist beekeepers (4th year/4hives) and a learning lurker on this list for a very short time, I would like to add a plug for using our state associations as a source of information for beginners. Finding out early on what we're doing well and not so well is very helpful in making us better beekeepers. Additionally, I would like to second the observation by the delightful "somewhat spikey" Madeleine Pym in her recent post. I, too, am not a gentleman. I work right alongside my male partner on all bee tasks and I have long born some discomfort concerning the past and remaining vestiges of sexist language in the bee literature and in the bee world. Examples from history abound, not the least egregious is the long held mistaken belief that the worker bees were male. Examples continue to accrue in contemporary life. We attended a beekeeping auction recently and the auctioneer resorted to sexist stereotyping about some of the equipment, such as wheeled carts for saving male backs, and smaller wheeled carts for when the "wife helped out." I hope Madeleine and I are not the only women on the list and that our fellow list members will think more broadly and inclusively when addressing the membership. For the record, one of my favorite beekeepers is the wonderful Sue Hubbell, former librarian turned beekeeper and author in midlife. Happy Beekeeping to all, S Johnson and J Morris ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 07:06:36 +0000 Reply-To: aweinert@tpgi.com.au Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: aweinert Subject: Frame making equipment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT A friend of mine who has access to commercial quantities of wood would like to know if there is specifica equipment available to make his own frames. Can any one help. Also it appeasr as though Alan fom Canada is not around at the moment. Is there any news of how his 10,000 peirco frames went I assume the season is almost over now in the North and would like to hear of the performance of the new frames. all the best Andrew Weinert Atherton, Tropical North Queensland Australia 17.17 Degrees South, 145.30 Degrees East ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 06:37:26 +0930 Reply-To: Frank Farrell Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Frank Farrell Subject: Cut comb honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi everyone I am wondering how much cut comb honey sells for in different places. Has anyone sold it recently, or seen it for sale. Any feedback welcome. Also thanks for the replies concerning chalkbrood. Frank Farrell Darwin NT Australia fmf@bigpond.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 15:20:50 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: Re: Learning Curve Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit There is no way botulism bacteria can grow in honey as it is too acid. Botulism bacteria grow in low acid media that is why low acid foods like green beans are pressure canned or pickled with vinegar. If the spores of bacteria are able to grow in an infants digestive tract that is another thing entirely. Unless your dinner is eaten in a glove box the dust in the air will deposit spores for butulism bacteria on it. Tom ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 14:47:03 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: tomas mozer Subject: Re: School bees Comments: To: HWResearch@aol.com have been involved in establishing demonstration apiaries (2-4 beehives) at county agricultural centers and community college environmental centers...we have had occasional vandalism but no stinging problems (except maybe to vandals?) other than normal when working bees, however do reccommend having visitors sign a waiver of liability whenever possible...don't know about statistics, but there are good descriptive articles in the journals (american bee & bee culture) available. would be interested in your proposal...can you e-mail or s-mail to: tomasmozer@juno.com p.o.box 4144,st.augustine,fl.32085 _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 09:34:40 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Mares Subject: Lolita Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain My wife's book group is reading "Lolita" and they came across a passage about the pair driving through Arizona and California, where at the border "a policeman's cousin would peer with such intensity at us....[and ask] Any honey?" Do any of you know whether there were such inspections 40 years ago and if so, what would they be looking for? Or is this just part of Nabokov's imagination? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 17:09:18 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: Lolita In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:34 AM 9/11/98 -0500, you wrote: >My wife's book group is reading "Lolita" and they came across a passage about the pair driving through Arizona and California, where at the border "a policeman's cousin would peer with such intensity at us....[and ask] Any honey?" > Do any of you know whether there were such inspections 40 years ago and if so, what would they be looking for? Or is this just part of Nabokov's imagination? Yes, California did have agricultural inspections stations 40 years ago on most of the boarder highways and they would ask if you had any fruits and vegetables, don't recall if they asked about honey but do believe judging by some of the smart ass people I have come across working at these stations myself that is about the level of question they would ask if you had a young girl with you. They were looking from the same thing they look for when they inspect a package of queen bees at the post office and that is the permits issued by some other state certifying that the honey or bees are disease free. Thats OK but having worked in these other states the permits or paper work are issued by the book to anyone that asks and more for friends and they are not worth the paper they are written on. The same goes for California, I used to get my package bee and queen certificates by the box of 500 each winter before the shipping season started, but of course in this case they were as good as my inspection which was OK but I objected to having some state inspectors name on them when it was I who did the work and stood behind the product. Several years ago I came through a boarder station with two identical pick-up's both carrying identical loads, brand new extractors from the manufacture in Utah. We were about three minutes apart. I was in the lead pu and was waved passed and my driver in the 2nd pu was held up for two hours as they tried to find out if his load was legal which required going through three levels of command all whom had gone home for the night. After that experience if there is an alternative route I take it and save a lot of agitation and time on the road. Other beekeepers have had to dump off in the desert drums of bees wax and the like because they lacked the proper permits. ttul, the OLd Drone (c)Permission is given to copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 20:52:40 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Charles Frederic Andros Subject: Garry Libby: Different strains of Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Garry, I have some nice Buckfasts and a mean one. Problem is, I don=92t get eno= ugh early brood to split them here. However, New World Carniolans are anothe= r story. Lots of brood and rarely a touchy one. In my 25 years of beekeeping, I=92ve seen amazing variation in strains of bees and you have= to try a lot of them to find what works best in your area. The US is full o= f micro-climates! Charles F. Andros Linden Apiaries Boulder Wall Gardens 1 McLean Road POB 165 Walpole, NH 03608-0165 USA/EUA 603-756-9056 phone/fax if notified by phone email: lindena@sover.net Latitude: 43=B0 05=92 North Longitude: 72=B0 21=92 15=94 West ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 20:44:33 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "J.F. Hensler" Subject: Re: Lolita MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My wife's book group is reading "Lolita" and they came across a passage = about the pair driving through Arizona and California, where at the = border "a policeman's cousin would peer with such intensity at = us....[and ask] Any honey?" Do any of you know whether there were such inspections 40 years ago = and if so, what would they be looking for? Or is this just part of = Nabokov's imagination? Yo Bll: First of all, shame on your wife, and her book group! :-) I'm sure someone on *this* group will be able to provide you with more = up to date information than me but, yes, AZ & CA both had border = inspection stations 40 years ago. However, they weren't looking for = just honey. It seems like they were trying to prevent the introduction = of various plant, insect, etc. diseases/pests into each state. =20 At least that was the offical version, perhaps grounded somewhat in = truth, but also influenced by politics and state protectionism as time = went by. My personal opinion of the state of CA will be forever tainted = by the memory of having one of those border guards confiscate a bag of = my Fla. oranges, and then watching him in my rear view mirror as he = proceeded to eat one of them. I don't know about the honey thing. I think Nabokov might have taken a = bit of literary license on that point, but I'm not at all sure. Skip Skip & Christy Hensler THE ROCK GARDEN Newport, Wash. http://www.povn.com/rock=20 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 18:21:16 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Paul Walton Subject: Re: NEEDING SOME HELP In-Reply-To: <19980911021609.JOYD12025@dgaidahpc.qp.att.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 In article <19980911021609.JOYD12025@dgaidahpc.qp.att.com>, David Gaida writes >Now to the current problem. This same hive is now throwing out larvae. He > says they are varying ages of larvae. Just a shot in the dark ..... Could they be removing drone brood in preparation for winter? -- Paul Walton Bedfordshire, England Paul@adrem.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 07:28:19 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Paul Nicholson Subject: Re: Lolita In-Reply-To: <199809120005.RAA21188@smtp1.jps.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 17:09 -0700 9/11/98, Andy Nachbaur wrote: >Yes, California did have agricultural inspections stations 40 years ago on >most of the boarder highways and they would ask if you had any fruits and >vegetables, don't recall if they asked about honey but do believe judging >by some of the smart ass people I have come across working at these >stations myself that is about the level of question they would ask if you >had a young girl with you. The stations are still there. They always ask about fruits and vegtables but never about honey. The best story I ever heard about the California Border Inspection stations was printed in one of the free airplane publications available at ariports. An Air Force Pilot, it seems, had grown tired of the delays when traveling from his base in Arizona to Los Angeles. He came across a truck load of overripe watermelon and loaded it into bomb bay of his Douglas single engine prop fighter bomber (This was a Post WWII design, later used in Vietnam, I forget the name), and dropped the load on the "Welcome to California" sign next to the border inspection station from a high speed low pass. On one of his later trips to California, when the inspection officer noticed his uniform, he related the story. They were not sure whether the plane was one of ours, or a foreign country, and theer were watermelon seeds growing from the sign clear to the river. Paul ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 16:14:51 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ruary Rudd Subject: Re: Mean Hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >What is the preferred way of killing off a hive.? > >Tom Barrett > It all depends on what you want to do; If you want to kill off a hive for foulbrood and destroy the frames then using petrol (gasoline) will do the trick nicely. It has the advantage of helping the ignition of bees and frames in the burial pit. I have had to do this and I had no spillage on the ground. If you want to kill off the bees only, and salvage the frames for future use then the use of sulphur di-oxide gas which is produced by burning sulphur is optimal. In the days when bees were kept in skeps the use of sulphur pits was common to kill the bees and allow the harvest of honey. Ruary Rudd rrudd@tinet.ie ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 11:44:21 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Buckfast MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Dave wrote..."I sympathize with Tom having just done this myself. For the >first time in 50 >years I had to kill a hive this year. Buckfast in origin, allowed to >supersede to maintain the genetics, turned into the worst hive I've ever >handled, and I have three more not quite so bad." > >Dave, were these from Canadian breeders or from Texas (before the embargo)? These are of Canadian origin, which is what makes me suspicious, there is no way they can get AHB genes from down South. My information is there are AHB genes in them and superscedure brings them to the front via regression. They do not breed true! >I personally used Buckfast queens for several years (in the 60's) and found >them very gentle and extremely prolific. With good New World Carnolians >being extremely resistant to tracheal mites, I do not see why any beekeeper >in the Northern states (or Canada) would want to use Buckfast produced in >Texas and take any risk concerning the Africanized traits. Any thoughts There is a marketing ploy being used at the moment. "Buckfast" are the only T-mite resistant bees around. It's not true. All bees are resistant to T-mites to varying degrees. Italians are and have been for many years the most resistant, followed by Carniolans then the rest. The trick is to have them tested, find the best, then fix the trait. ************************************************************ The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia, ON. L3V 6H1. Canada. Phone (705) 326 7171 Fax (705) 325 3461 David Eyre. Owner. beeworks@muskoka.net www.muskoka.net/~beeworks *********************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 11:47:19 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Mean Hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Date: Friday, September 11, 1998 8:46 AM Subject: Mean Hive >David Green states that gasoline is not the way to kill off a hive because >of the carcinogenic effect of the gasoline, and its effect on the ground water. >What is the preferred way of killing off a hive.? I used dish washing detergent mixed with water in a pump up sprayer. Ecologically sound? It was certainly fast and from observation less painful to all concerned. ************************************************************ The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia, ON. L3V 6H1. Canada. Phone (705) 326 7171 Fax (705) 325 3461 David Eyre. Owner. beeworks@muskoka.net www.muskoka.net/~beeworks *********************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 17:40:38 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Moving hives Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello All I made up a small nuc in my home apiary for experimentation purposes, and I moved it to an out apiary - a distance of 15km (9 miles) - to prevent bees returning to their old hive. How soon could I move it back to my home apiary without losing bees?. Thanks for replies. Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland e mail cssl@iol.ie Tel + 353 1 289 5269 Fax + 353 1 289 9940 Latitude 53 Degrees 16' North Longitude 6 Degrees 9' West of Greenwich ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 12:47:11 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Pierco Andrew Weinert wonders about Pierco frame success in the northern US and in Canada. As I manufacture and sell beekeeping equipment, primarily to dealers and beekeepers in the northern half of the country, I regularly talk with commercial beekeepers. During the past few years more and more have been converting to Pierco. They cite reduction of labor and greater strength as the primary reasons. Last year I tried a couple of hundred and this year drew around 1,000 frames. I will share my experiences. During a strong flow or when drawing from feed, the bees do not show any preference for the waxed, compared to the unwaxed frames. During weaker flows the bees are very reluctant to draw from unwaxed frames unless the frames are first dipped in sugar water (I am sure corn syrup would do just as well). Whether waxed or unwaxed and dipped in syrup, my bees did not do a good job of drawing the plastic foundation when new frames were interspersed with drawn frames. For reasons that are not clear to me they readily drew 10 frames of perfect foundation above a brood nest. However, if two or three frames were interspersed in a brood nest they built a lot of drone and burr combs and extended the comb on the adjacent frames, particularly on the corners, into the plastic frames. Next year, if I have to draw comb in a brood nest I will use normal wax foundation. With that exception, from now on I will only be drawing Pierco frames and will purchase waxed frames. Lloyd LloydSpear@email.msn.com Owner, Ross Rounds the finest in comb honey production. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 22:21:25 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Eugene Makovec Subject: Re: Mean Buckfasts Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I thought it was just me. I had heard that Buckfasts were both gentle and prolific producers, as well as being somewhat resistant to disease and tracheal mites. This past Spring I split a hive and called a gentleman I'd bought a queen from last year. He didn't have any Italians so he sold me a Buckfast queen (a Weaver descendant). It sounded just fine to me at the time, though it was more expensive. But those Buckfasts have turned out to be the meanest bees I've dealt with. Granted, I've only been doing this for 3 years with only 3 hives, but I've not had this experience before. I have only to pop open the top of the hive and a couple come after me. It's been like this the last 3 visits. I'm debating whether to medicate them along with the other hives or just let them take their chances with Varroa. Eugene Makovec Kirkwood, MO ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 20:29:06 +0000 Reply-To: pkoski@muse.sfusd.k12.ca.us Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Paul Koski Organization: Geo. Washington High School Subject: Re-queening MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm relatively inexperienced with requeening. A large swarm was hived in July, not too unusual in Calif this year. When I looked into the new brood chamber a couple weeks ago I found few larva, few capped brood with two queens wandering around. Last week I requeened. Questions: 1. Could there have been two queens in the swarm? 2. Why wern't either of them successful in laying? 3. Will the attendants I couldn't coax out of the queen cage hinder the acceptance of the introduced queen? And finally, will the carniolan queen I introduced be compatable with the Italian bees from the swarm? Thanks for your thoughts. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 05:40:56 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Partin Subject: Re: Mean Buckfasts Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) I have had a different experience with buckfast queens. I run about 750 hives and use buckfast queen cells to requeen with. I requeen when there are 10s of 1000s of hives in the area from the north,` I'm from FLORIDA. When we move these bees we bunch them in my back yard about 100 feet from my back door. We bunch 168 at a time there and start loading them a little before dark and then let whats left get on the truck and then net down after dark. It's real hot down here so if possible we were no suit. Most of the time we were just a T- shirt a vail a cap and no gloves. It is unsual for us to get a sting during this process. I really think its how you handle your bees not the buckfast that might be the problem. Of course you do find a very few that do get teste but I never have found a hive that we could not work. BUD ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 20:00:09 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Robert A. Roach" Subject: Re: Lolita MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In California, the first Horticultural Commissioners were established in = 1881. I do not know when border inspections started but the passage = below was penned by John Steinbeck. Bob Roach -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------------------------------------- Much earlier I spoke of the changes at state lines, changes in Highway English, in prose forms on the signs, changes in permitted speed. The = states' rights guaranteed under the Constitution seem to be passionately and = gleefully executed. California searches vehicles for vegetables and fruits which = might carry pernicious insects and diseases, and regulations of these are enforced with almost religious intensity. =20 Some years ago I knew a gay and inventive family from Idaho. Planning = to visit relatives in California, they took a truckload of potatoes to sell = along the way to help pay expenses. They had disposed of over half their = cargo when they were stopped at the California line and their potatoes refused = entrance. They were not financially able to abandon their potatoes, so they = cheerfully set up camp on the state line, where they ate potatoes, sold potatoes, bartered potatoes. At the end of two weeks the truck was empty. Then = they went through the inspector's station in good standing and continued on = their way. John Steinbeck Travels With Charley, 1962 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---------------------------------- >My wife's book group is reading "Lolita" and they came across a passage = >about the pair driving through Arizona and California, where at the = border "a >policeman's cousin would peer with such intensity at = us....[and ask] Any >honey?" > Do any of you know whether there were such inspections 40 years ago = >and if so, what would they be looking for? Or is this just part of = Nabokov's >imagination? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 15:17:24 +0200 Reply-To: drs@kulmbach.baynet.de Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Dr. Reimund Schuberth" Subject: Re: Moving hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Tom, > I made up a small nuc in my home apiary for experimentation purposes, and I > moved it to an out apiary - a distance of 15km (9 miles) - to prevent bees > returning to their old hive. > > How soon could I move it back to my home apiary without losing bees?. This depends on time of the year you do this operation. Normally you should wait until the foraging elder bees get lost, in summer after about 4 weeks. In this time of the year I would take them back when there's no flight anymore (because of low temperatures in winter). Sincerely Reimund ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Beekeeper in Germany (Bavaria) Queen Rearing of Cariolans Insemination Station ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 08:52:47 -0500 Reply-To: lkrengel@mc.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Larry Krengel Subject: Re: Pierco MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My experience with about 50 Pierco frames is similar to Lloyd's. The bee's interest in the Pierco frames appears to be much less than standard wax foundation. I only placed my Pierco foundation within drawn foundation (as suggested by the manufacturer). Not always, but often the Pierco frames were ignored while burr comb was drawn to fill the space. Sometimes adjacent frames were extended to fill the space making manipulations more difficult. When the Pierco was then finally drawn, it was very shallow. One interesting possibility - I found that the hive in which I cut communication holes in the Pierco seemed to be drawn better than the others. I have not given up on Pierco. The ease of use makes it very appealing. Yet, I have not developed the system for using it successfully. Larry Krengel Marengo, IL USA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 11:29:46 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tom Speight Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 11 Sep 1998 to 12 Sep 1998 In-Reply-To: <905659235.214000.0@uacsc2.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <905659235.214000.0@uacsc2.albany.edu>, Automatic digest processor writes >How soon could I move it back to my home apiary without losing bees?. 3 weeks should do the trick. If your in no hurry leave them longer -- Tom Speight ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 10:29:26 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Moving bees Tom asks >moved it to an out apiary - a distance of 15km (9 miles) - to prevent bees returning to their old hive. How soon could I move it back to my home apiary without losing bees?.> Tom, three weeks is surely enough time. I do not know how little time is possible, but I suspect it might be as little as a week. Think about what is going on...a beekeeper wants the field bees to "forget" the location of the old hive, which they do by orienting to the location of the new hive. This will happen within a day or two at the new site. In the September issue of Bee Culture, one of our national magazines, Roger Morse (one of the most respected researchers) cites two studies of how long a field bee lives. Both studies found it is only 3-7 days. If this is true, all the bees that were oriented to the old site will be dead in 8 days...meaning a week is probably enough. Lloyd ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 10:48:29 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Paul Koski-requeening Paul Koski asks about requeening. 1. It is not unusual for several queens to be in any swarm where the old queen is not present. While this is usually a swarm after the primary swarm ( an afterswarm or a secondary swarm ) it can also be a swarm from a hive with a clipped queen or any condition where the hive queen could not join the swarm. Usually, or perhaps always, these queens will be unmated. 2. It could be that both queens could not mate properly because of inclement weather or a lack of drones. The latter condition is suspected by some as being common, due to varroa s preference for drone brood. 3. I believe that there is considerable dis-agreement concerning whether the presence of the worker bees in a queen cage hinders acceptance. Commercial beekeepers that I know leave them in the cage. I personally leave them in the cage. 4. At least two studies, cited by Dr. Tom Seeley at Cornell, maintain that workers more readily accept a queen of the same line than a queen of a differing line. However, I recall these studies were examining two different lines of Italians, which are more closely related than any line of Italian would be to any line of Carnolians. Moreover, these studies showed a preference for queens that were genetically related and did not show that workers would always reject queens not genetically related. I have often successfully introduced Carnolian queens to Italian hives with no difficulty. Lloyd LloydSpear@email.msn.com Owner, Ross Rounds the finest in comb honey production. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 20:13:37 +1200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Organization: Bay of Plenty Polytechnic Subject: Re: Lolita MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > My wife's book group is reading "Lolita" and they came across a passage about the pair driving through Arizona and California, where at the border "a policeman's cousin would peer with such intensit > at us....[and ask] Any honey?" > Do any of you know whether there were such inspections 40 years ago and if so, what would they be looking for? Or is this just part of Nabokov's imagination? Not sure about 40, but certainly 30 years ago, when I'd occasionally travel that way. There'd be a setup that looked like a toll booth sort of thing, with the Californian agriculture people asking questions and periodically inspecting/searching... (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- home nickw@beekeeping.co.nz (/ work nw1@boppoly.ac.nz NZ Beekeeping http://www.beekeeping.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 17:23:05 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Guy F. Miller" Subject: Movement of bees in Canada Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I was visiting Vancouver, BC earlier in the week, and took a bus from town to the ferry port, on my way to Victoria on Vancouver Island. The bus was moving along, so I may have mis-read the sign, but I think I saw a sign about 1 mile from the dock which said something like, "No movement of honey bees beyond this point." Was that right, and if so, can someone tell me what that's all about? Just curious. Guy F. Miller "Start every day with a smile, and get it over with." Charlottesville VA W.C. Fields ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 13:47:34 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: unman Subject: Odp: Re: Mean Hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Garry! I'm Pole, I don't know what means Buckfast. Ca You explain me it? Andrzej, Poland ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 21:56:17 +0100 Reply-To: mpym@hive.netkonect.co.uk Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Madeleine Pym Subject: Re: Moving bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Tom, Regarding the movement of bees, don't forget that once the winter is upon us and bees stop flying you can easily move them. They don't fly very often and so are not so sure of their surroundings anyway. They won't even know they have been moved. If this weather keeps on the way it has been they won't have flown much for weeks. You asked about ways to kill bees. Noone seems to have picked up on my questions about chloroform as a possible treatment for acarine, etc so perhaps it has been overlooked. But I also mentioned that my father uses it to kill bees (when he has had acarine). It is harmless apart form being fatal to them. Petrol is used in the UK but only when EFB and AFB are fond and the frames, etc are going to be burnt. All the best Madeleine ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 23:14:08 +0300 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jan Tempelman Organization: Home Subject: Re: Lolita MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Or is this just part of Nabokov's imagination? perhaps it's something about Nabokov's hobby to collect butterfly's and bees ------------------------------------------------- home of the drone frame method. de darreraat methode ------------------------------------------------- http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/index3.html Jan Tempelman mailto:jtemp@xs4all.nl Sterremos 16 3069 AS Rotterdam, The Netherlands Tel/Fax (SOMETIMES) XX 31 (0)10-4569412 ------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 23:26:19 +0100 Reply-To: mpym@hive.netkonect.co.uk Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Madeleine Pym Subject: Reviewing this season in South-East England MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well it has been a positively 'medieval' year here in this area. If people were still burnt for being witches a lot of our neighbours would have been sacrificed by now. Why? Well, we have seen things not seen before - or at least only very rarely. It started with a very early spring followed by some truly awful weather just as the queens would have gotten into full lay. Much too early. It turned wet and cold, and never improved very much for the rest of the season. The following things became common experience: =95 Firstly beekeepers reported an unthwartable swarming instinct amon= g the bees this year, which was initially put down to the idea that following the decimation of wild colonies by varroa, they were trying to fill all the vacant homes out there in trees, etc. This was a very popular theory. But things got stranger and stranger. =95 Queens going out with a swarm without more than the beginnings of = a few queen cells, sometimes with nothing more than an egg in it. =95 Swarms that swarmed again within a few weeks of being hived. =95 Colonies swarming until there were no queens left in the colonies. =95 New queens only three weeks into laying, that are laying full comb= s of healthy worker brood and lots of it, being superceded. Which is still going on now at a time when bees are usually expected to be settling down for the winter. =95 Lots of reports too of queens that did not get mated, not surprising when there has not been a lot of sun, but this has still been occurring even during the good spells. Some colonies have spent considerable time without a queen, taking more than one attempt at raising a queen that actually got mated. As I say, when you listen to the weekly reports and chit chat from people down at the local bee club it sounds just like the sort of thing that went on in the middle ages, the equivalent of people coming in with tales of cows giving sour milk, pigs giving birth to sheep, and such weird stories. I can't tell you how many times I have heard my father saying, "Well I've never had anything like this ever happen before." He's kept bees some 27 years now. So what is going on? I was interested to hear someone else mention the damage that must be done to the drones by varroa and this is what my father and I have been pondering. It may be that the queens have been flying but the drones are so badly affected by varroa that they are unable to perform a 'fertile' mating. Queens may be mating but not be fertile, or sufficiently fertile. Pure conjecture of course. But it would be worrisome if that were the case. Especially with so many hobbiest beekeepers out there every weekend ripping the cappings off drone cells as part of the control of varroa. A second line of thought is what might the effects of varroa be on the queens. I have heard that they are not affected, but is that a scientific fact, or just wishful thinking. I would be very interested to hear from other parts of the world that have lived with varroa for some time to know whether they experienced these sort of seasons but with good weather. It would also be good to hear from beekeepers in other parts of the UK as to whether they would confirm similar findings or not, maybe it has been a relatively local phenomena. At present it is preferable to blame it all on the 'vagaries of the weather'. Nonetheless, despite the weather honey yields have been pretty much as good as other years, unlike the experience of our Irish friends who seem to have borne the brunt of it all, or at least that is the last thing I heard from over that way, and little honey has been gathered at all among some of the beekeepers there. Lastly, may I add my bit on Buckfasts. My father recollects hearing complaints from many beekeepers for some years now that Buckfasts (and these are NOT from Weavers or anywhere else in the States) are prone to aggression once the queens are 2nd/3rd generation. That is to say, the people who have bought Buckfast queens and have let them naturally supercede (we don't do much yearly replacement over here) have found their daughters, one or two down the line to become unworkable. David Eyre's theory on the dominance of the african gene sounds quite convincing. Belgium and Germany are still managing to produce some wonderful Buckfasts and Carniolans, as well as B/C crosses with highly desirable temperaments. Madeleine ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 19:09:17 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Brian Wetterlind Subject: New apiary sites Hi all, I have been looking for new apiary sites (Minnesota) and have found it very difficult. Can anyone tell me how the commercial beekeepers find new sites and, are there any pamphlets out there to give to land owners explaining the benefits of bees? Brian W ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 17:35:05 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tony Dixon Subject: Re: Movement of bees in Canada Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >t I think I saw a sign about 1 mile from the dock which said something like, "No movement of honey >bees beyond this point." Was that right, and if so, can someone tell me Yes you did read it correctly. Vancouver Island was embargoed for honey bees because the Island was mite free and it was believed that by stopping the movement of bees and bee equipment onto the Island it could stay that way. This last year Varroa has made it here, probably on a vehicle or in freight. I hope not because of a thoughtless beekeeper. We now are learning to use Apistan like everyone else. Some testing has been going on to determine if Tracheal mites have also arrived, if so they are not generally distributed yet. Despite all counter measures our Governments can devise, and in this case a 20 mile water barrier, mites still spread. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 09:30:58 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Philip Roger Gurr Subject: Re: Reviewing this season in South-East England The message <35FC4683.9B83854B@hive.netkonect.co.uk> from Madeleine Pym contains these words: > Well it has been a positively 'medieval' year here in this area. If > people were still burnt for being witches a lot of our neighbours would > have been sacrificed by now. > Why? > Well, we have seen things not seen before - or at least only very > rarely. > It started with a very early spring followed by some truly awful weather > just as the queens would have gotten into full lay. Much too early. It > turned wet and cold, and never improved very much for the rest of the > season. (SNIP) > I would be very interested to hear from other parts of the world that > have lived with varroa for some time to know whether they experienced > these sort of seasons but with good weather. It would also be good to > hear from beekeepers in other parts of the UK as to whether they would > confirm similar findings or not, maybe it has been a relatively local > phenomena. At present it is preferable to blame it all on the 'vagaries > of the weather'. > Nonetheless, despite the weather honey yields have been pretty much as > good as other years, unlike the experience of our Irish friends who seem > to have borne the brunt of it all, or at least that is the last thing I > heard from over that way, and little honey has been gathered at all > among some of the beekeepers there. Here in the North of Scotland, we have had the second worst summer on record for weather and I, for one, won't be taking any honey at all this year - despite the fact that we are still Varroa free. Our problems started with a very warm February when all my queens started laying (whole books have been written on how to keep bees warm in winter - but nothing on how to keep them cool!). This was followed by blizzards in early March and heavy snow in April leading to the loss of most of the brood. No hives were lost, but the numbers so depleted that the rest of this miserable season has been reduced to a campaign just to build up numbers. Swarming was never even contemplated and I don't recollect even seeing a queen cell. As I write this, each hive now has one shallow super of honey and I'm going to let them keep it. They worked hard enough for it - often out in the pouring rain, which was most unusual. The coldest place reported in June in Europe (and that included Spitzbergen, Finland and part of Siberia) was Achnasheen, just 20 miles up the road from me!!! Surely next year can't be as bad. Whilst it would be tempting to attribute the lack of exotic swarming behaviour to the fact that we are Varroa free, I can't help thinking that the weather played the major part, Phil. (Northern Highlands of Scotland) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 02:08:24 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garry Libby Subject: Re: What are Buckfast Bees? In-Reply-To: <000801bddf19$3201d800$38f1cdc3@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Andrzej, Buckfast Bees are a hybrid bee developed by Brother Adam of Buckfast Abbey in England. Work on developing them began during the "Isle of Wight" or "Acarine" disease epidemic, which proved to be Trachael mites. They were initially bred to be resistant to trachael mites, then further work(over sixty years)concentrated on gentleness and productivity. They are a hybrid of many different races of bees. I Hope this helps, Garry Libby Boston, USA LibBEE@email.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 14:15:48 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Dr's. Welthagen,Prinsloo en Esterhuysen" Subject: Re: African bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: Garth To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU GARTH and all other beekeepers, I am from South Africa (like Garth) and love AHB!! Here we really need aggressive bees to protect our hives from thieves. The more aggressive my bees are, the more happy I am. I spent this last winter season (from mid july to beginning of september) $900 + on protection of our hives (guards,ect.) I wish people can learn to respect others property. For us that are used to AHB, they are not "killer bees", they are just bees. Next year we hope DV to visit Apimondia99 and come and see these non aggressive swarms that you have in Canada. Anton wpbe@intekom.co.za Pretoria, South Africa ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 07:13:34 +0000 Reply-To: aweinert@tpgi.com.au Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: aweinert Subject: Re: Botulism MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Dear Andy I am not sure that I agree with all that you say here, not because I am Australian but because I have been a Quality manager for dairy products. > > If true its sad and really is one way of stopping the sale of > "unpasteurized apple juice" as we have done with unpasteurized milk. > I guess it is not enough today to provide information to the > consumer about "risks" and let us make up our own minds as we may > make the wrong choice according to some bureaucrat or academic. Apple Juice I agree with as when it goes off it usually ferments and tastes different until it turns into either a natural cider or vinegar. The British grew up on this over the centuries. Perhaps a case of over zealous testing. If my memory serves me correctly botulism only grows at a pH greater than 4.6 and under that it is dormant, if not dead. > Milk , now days I agree but there have been many great plagues carried by milk including typhoid, tuberculosis and others. This was due to either poor handling or infected cows. This is basically not the case now but as milk is the perfect growth medium testing goes on . > I think its called dumbing down, I am not sure I agree here. It is really knowing whats in the product and then making an informed decision on the results. > > If this<<< dumb>>>(I would remove this word) labelling was applied to packaged honey that would not > bee good other then most commercial honey is also pasteurized and > filtered in the packaging process and I would assume that would > reduce the problem but would not help in the case of a open > container at the consumer level that will receive the natural > botulism spores that are in dust from the home. Whilst not knowing how many bugs you need for an infective growth of botulism there is a chance that in a commercial food producing set up that there can be a growth of a bug far in excess of a home use operation. So monitoring the potential disease causing bugs is a smart move in my opinion. If you know they are there you can find them and get rid of them. > > Honey at the producer level does contain several nasty sounding > things such as: > > "Osmophilic Yeast <100/gm (this is a yeast that grows in high sugar concentrations. I have seen concentrated apple juice drums 44 imperial gallons, 50 US gallons blow up to exploding point on this) Total Aerobic Mesophilic <1000/gm these are bugs that grow in the presence of oxygen and at temperatures between approx.. 10 to 45 Degrees C.. a general indication of the cleanness of the manufacturing plant Sulphite Anaeroobic Reducing Spores <100/gm Not sure what these represent except that they don't need oxygen Coliforms <1/gm These are indicator organisms that indicate if fecal (SHIT) contamination has taken place and if so then you may guess that there are other nasties there. (Now days they normally indicate that there is a cleaning problem some where in the plant and there is some innvestigative work to be done) Clostridium > Botulinum <1gm" This is the nasty one that can kill I have no Idea of the frequency in honey but figuring that it has been eaten for millions of years I figure it is not so much of a problem. Is there anyone with data on the frequency of this bug in honey??? > > At least the honey produced in Australia does according to the > information advertised for the world to see on their web page as > "Australian Honey Quality Specifications": If you look at the page you will see that these guys have a quality certification although they don't say who has issued it. In the food industry this sort of thing is becoming necessary to enter most markets. This ties in with the ISO standards 9000 - 3 which say document every thing you do and prove that you are doing what you say you are doing. I figure that they are testing for Botulism because of the advertising on the net and the old wives tales that are going through as well ie this thread. So forewarned is forearmed. > > http://www.wescobee.com/Netscape/fi.htm > > To label this kind of information as "quality specifications" would > seem to be a mistake, at least to me, in the English translation as > by inference any honey that does not contain these contaminants is > of less quality, and value, which puts the good conscientious honey > producer who takes care in how honey is handled at a disadvantage or > is this just taking honesty in advertising to a new level. I wonder > if Australia will also volunteer to include this information on the > containers for honey they export? I can see it now,,,, > We have to put all information like this to export to Jap[an (Dairy products) (You don't have to worry because the land of the Free wont let any of our products in to compete on an equal basis) > PURE H-O-N-E-Y PRODUCED IN AUSTRALIA Guaranteed to contain both > botulism and coliform! > > Sure sounds like some of the stuff the UN is looking for in Iraq > doomsday weapons. Our babies are doomed, but not to worry in America > new chemicals everyday are being allowed in honey and in time adults > will also catch up with the infants and Dr. Death will include honey > in his "end it all cocktail" for us old timers. In the competitive world he who has the best weapons wins, these weapons being trade barriers, volume production that can pay for the testing the "Customer" wants and or advertising.. I agree that some times it goes too far but that is life. look at computers and soft ware, video recorders, Cars that use petrol not diesel or steam. So if you can't afford to test then you cant claim as others can. then you have a disadvantage. Then it is time to Stick together as you suggest and form a co-operative so that you can be competitive. And so the world goes round. My point here is that if we are to produce lots of Honey or other things then we need to update not only production techniques but also the monitoring techniques as well to Keep up with the Jones' who may have to compete more to get a market share. Take care Andrew Weinert Atherton, Tropical North Queensland Australia 17.17 Degrees South, 145.30 Degrees East ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 08:46:40 -0400 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Buckfast vs. Italians MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I must admit to never trying a Buckfast queen, so have no opinions about their disposition. I have always used Italians, purchased from Shuman Apiaries in Jessup, Georgia, USA. They have always been excellent queens, rarely superceding, with excellent brood patterns and a rapid spring buildup. All summer I work them with only a bee veil and have only rarely gotten more than a couple stings in several hours work a day. Even after removing supers for the honey harvest, I (barehanded, and wearing only a short sleeved shirt) tip up the upper brood chamber to insert Apistan strips and terramycin patties, brushing bees out of the way with my fingers without getting stung. (I must admit that I did get a bad sting under my fingernail when crushing one bee out of my sight, but you can hardly blame the bee for that!) I know - Italians are considered an old-fashioned bee. I guess I must be old-fashioned myself, because I can't see any reason to try anything different. After all, I have always averaged about 150 lbs. of honey per colony per year (Michigan average=70 lbs.), and that using queen excluders over every brood nest (did someone say they are "honey excluders"?) Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 09:26:47 -0400 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: Pierco MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I also tried Pierco frames this year, both in the brood nest (deeps) and in honey supers (medium depth). I was amazed at the good acceptance of these frames (I only used the waxed version) in both cases. Normally I use eight frames per honey super and nine in the brood nest, but as these were new frames, I used ten in both cases. Except in a couple weak hives, all frames were well drawn out and filled with either brood or honey. I did notice that some drone brood was constructed in places, but since drones are necessary for good hive balance, I have no problem with this. It is interesting that the bees will build normal drone comb on a hard plastic foundation of worker size. I use a Gunness uncapping machine, with chain flails. I wondered if the plastic frames would stand up to the battering, since the chains tend to chew up the bottom bars of wooden frames to some extent. I was pleasantly surprised to find that the plastic frames, although lighter, are not damaged in the least by this uncapper. The frames are very easy to clean up during extracting, since beeswax and propolis easily scrapes away, and even though I used ten frames per super, they were much easier than wood frames to pry apart. Next year I will try a few supers with only eight frames, but I think that using ten Pierco's will be best. One problem I did have in extracting was that patches of the drawn comb would easily peel away from the plastic foundation while spinning in the extractor. However, since the original comb was accepted so well, I don't anticipate that these areas of denuded plastic will be any problem next year for the bees to fix up. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 22:58:11 +0930 Reply-To: Frank Farrell Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Frank Farrell Subject: Re: Pierco Comments: To: lkrengel@mc.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: Larry Krengel To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Date: Monday, 14 September 1998 1:02 Subject: Re: Pierco >. > >One interesting possibility - I found that the hive in which I cut >communication holes in the Pierco seemed to be drawn better than the >others. > Hi Larry Have heard a similar comment from another beekeeper concerning plastic frames, but they were not peirco. I have ordered some peirco foundation to use in frames with grooved top and bottom bars. Am planning to cut a triangular piece out of each corner. *Where in the frame did you cut the communication holes and how big? *Has anyone compared the difference between the bees acceptance of black and white peirco foundation? thanks in advance, Frank. Frank Farrell Darwin NT Australia fmf@bigpond.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 10:05:15 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Permadent Foundation with Grooved Top and Bottom Bars MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Frank Farrell wrote: > ... I have ordered some peirco foundation to use in frames with > grooved top and bottom bars. Am planning to cut a triangular piece > out of each corner. I purchased over 700 sheet of Permadent Plastic Foundation to use with medium wooden frames with grooved top and bottom bars. I recall (but would not bet limbs on it) that the Permadent foundation had the corners clipped off to provide communication holes. HOWEVER!!! I discovered that the plastic foundation was too thick to fit into the grooves of the frames! I had to run both sides of the top of the foundation through my router to trim it down to fit into the grooves. Otherwise it would cause the frame bottom bars to bow out. The combination of Permadent foundation and grooved bottom and top bar frames did NOT work factory direct. Overexplaining so there is no doubt, the foundation has 3 dimensions: length, width and depth (thickness). It was the depth of the foundation that was too great to fit into the grooves. Less thick foundation or fatter grooves would solve this problem, and I am not sure if this is always a problem or was just a problem with the particular factory run of frames, foundation or both, but I had to spend a LOT of extra time which I had not anticipated at a time when I needed the stuff by yesterday to get the combination to work. Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 10:47:18 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: Permadent Foundation with Grooved Top and Bottom Bars MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aaron and all I had the same problem when ordering frames and Permadent from the same supplier.( you think they would TEST their wooden ware!!) I don't have a router so they sit unassembled. I had to order some grooved top bar frames from another supplier which allowed the thicker Permadent to slip in between. I didn't have this problem with Plasticell. I compared the two and it's not just the depth, but a slightly different width of the thin border of plastic that surrounds the cell area. The problem with these particular grooved top bar frames is that they have those tedious split bottom bars. I got so fed up with assembling frames and supers, that I got some Pierco deep frames, which the bees were slow to start. But I started with ten frames of Pierco, and after a few weeks I switched a couple drawn frames and now they are working on it. Ian Watson realtor@niagara.com real estate agent gardener baritone beekeeper---> 14 colonies -----Original Message----- From: Aaron Morris HOWEVER!!! I discovered that the plastic foundation was too thick to fit into the grooves of the frames! I had to run both sides of the top of the foundation through my router to trim it down to fit into the grooves. Otherwise it would cause the frame bottom bars to bow out. The combination of Permadent foundation and grooved bottom and top bar frames did NOT work factory direct. Overexplaining so there is no doubt, the foundation has 3 dimensions: length, width and depth (thickness). It was the depth of the foundation that was too great to fit into the grooves. Less thick foundation or fatter grooves would solve this problem ========================== ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 12:21:00 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Bozard, Charles Emmett (Mick)" Subject: FW: EARLY SPLITTS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hello fellow beekeeps, Gotta a question for experienced queen rearers. If I was to make early splitts and produce some queens now, without honey a honey flow. Would the queen wait till spring to mate if no drones available in the area or will she try to mate that 3 day period after hatching ? thanks in advance ! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 12:31:16 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: EARLY SPLITTS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Mick asked: > ... Would the queen wait till spring to mate if no drones available > in the area or will she try to mate that 3 day period after hatching? Virgin queens are like our president, when they want it they want it NOW! Er, I mean, your latter assumption is correct: she will try to mate soon after hatching. You didn't mention your location, but in these parts (upstate NY) it's gettin' pretty late in the season to be raising properly mated queens. Aaron Morris - thinking political correctness is an oxymoron! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 12:48:47 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: Permadent Foundation with Grooved Top and Bottom Bars MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Oops >I had to order some *grooved* top bar frames from another supplier which allowed >the thicker Permadent to slip in between. Should read: I had to order some *wedge* top bar frames from another supplier which allowed the thicker Permadent to slip in between. That makes more sense... Ian Watson realtor@niagara.com real estate agent gardener baritone beekeeper---> 14 colonies ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 13:27:14 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: Mean Buckfasts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've been following this topic and feel someone should address a misconception. People have been blaming the AHB genes in the Buckfast for its meanness, which isn't accurate. The AHB is a cross of Apis mellifera scutellata and European bees( AFAIK). In the video "The Monk and the Honeybee", Brother Adam goes to Africa to look for A. m. monticola in the mountains of east Africa, which is found much higher up than A. m scutellata. He says they are known for their gentleness and dark colour. In any recent copy of The Hive and the Honeybee, you can read that: "A. m. monticola retain their racial integrity, even though perennial hybridisation takes place with A. m. Scutellata in a fluctuating transitory zone. (Smith, 1961) A. m. monticola has been assigned a special position among honeybee races because it is the first taxonomic unit demonstrating isolation entirely by ecological factors showing a unique and distinct area of distribution. (Ruttner, 1988) Peter Donavon, who is now in charge of the bee breeding program at Buckfast Abbey spoke at our bee meeting last Spring while he was here in Canada to inspect the Canadian Buckfast breeders, and bring in a number of breeder queens. He said they brought back queen cells from Monticola colonies, and when they emerged they knew which ones were pure because Monticola queens are black and any queens with Scutellata in them were yellow and were killed. Therefore it is highly unlikely that there is any so-called "AHB" genetic material in the Buckfast. But since they are a hybrid, you can expect strange characteristics to emerge when they supersede, just as you do if you plant the seeds from any hybrid vegetable to not produce the same quality, or if those plants cross with still another variety. You will get stunted, disease susceptible plants that are nothing like the hybrid. "In cross-breeding not all the strains of two races create the same beneficial heterosis [hybrid vigour] effect. The specific combining ability has to be tested in every single case. Another difficulty in crossbreeding lies in the development of unfavourable characteristics in numerous cases - that is, some hybrids may be very aggressive; while others may be very susceptible to diseases." ( The Hive and the Honeybee, 1992 ) As George Imirie would say, we should all requeen every year, no matter which type of queen we are using, either Buckfast, Carniolan or Italian. So the problem of Buckfasts not "breeding true" shouldn't be a problem. Regards, Ian Watson realtor@niagara.com real estate agent gardener baritone beekeeper---> 14 colonies ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 13:01:52 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Queen difficulties Madeleine notes difficulties with queens and wonders about experiences elsewhere. I do not know if you have picked up on it, but this is a major problem in the US. One university has done a reasonably comprehensive investigation of the quality of queens being shipped from breeders. Before I comment some on this, let me say it is my impression that beekeepers in the US purchase many more queens (compared to raising their own) than do beekeepers in Europe. I commented on this to a commercial beekeeper in France and he thought it was because our queens cost $8-$12 and said queens in Europe were generally twice as expensive! No one really seems to know what is causing the US problems with queens. It is not unusual for a commercial beekeeper to purchase and mark several hundred queens and have them all superceded by the end of the season. I personally know of one commercial beekeeper that lost 2,000 queens within 30 days of introduction. In relative terms, hobbyists have the same difficulty. Some interesting observations have been made: 1. By attaching micro chips to cages, researchers have learned that in her 24-36 hour journey from a breeder to a beekeeper a queens have been subjected to temperatures ranging from 20 degrees (while in an airplane) to over 100 degrees (-7C to 38C) and still arrived alive! 2. Many queens had sperm loads of less than 50% of optimum. 3. Frequently queens had high tracheal mite infections. 4. Nosema infections were sometimes high. 5. No queens were found with varroa. Unfortunately, similar studies of a wide range of queen breeders have not been done in the past, so there are no baseline data for comparison. My understanding is that there is some suspicion that queen breeders have unknowingly relied on feral drones to properly inseminate their virgin queens and that the cumulative effects of varroa might have left breeders without sufficient drones. I have heard it said that at least 100 drones are required for each virgin queen. (While she might only mate with 10, allowances have to be made for drone swarms chasing other virgins, drones being eaten by birds, etc.) There is also concern that fluvalinate might have accumulated in brood comb to an extent that it is having an adverse effect on drone sperm counts. There is also speculation that tracheal mite infections of virgin queens might be limiting the length and/or the number of mating flights. Clearly, we are having the same problems in the US as Madeleine is reporting in England. As far as I know, no one has yet determined why . Lloyd LloydSpear@email.msn.com Owner, Ross Rounds the finest in comb honey production. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 13:18:00 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: TD Organization: Riser Management Systems, L.P. Subject: Yellow jackets! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I had noticed that my hive has been rather feisty as of late and was perplexed until I opened my hive the other day and was attacked by a yellow jacket! I looked inside for evidence of bee slaughter, and found a couple of dead bees with their abdomen removed. What can I do to beat off these pest before winter sets in (I'm up in Vermont, so I have less than a month to the first frost in my area. Some regions have already had a frost) and shore up the colony. Should I feed the hives to help the recoup from these attacks? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 14:14:01 -0400 Reply-To: BobCan@TDPI.Com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Subject: News Group MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am looking for News Group and a News Server that carries articles on BEES. Thanks! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 21:46:38 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Dalby Subject: Re: Yellow jackets! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: TD To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Date: 14 September 1998 18:52 Subject: Yellow jackets! I had noticed that my hive has been rather feisty as of late and was perplexed until I opened my hive the other day and was attacked by a yellow jacket! I looked inside for evidence of bee slaughter, and found a couple of dead bees with their abdomen removed. What can I do to beat off these pest before winter sets in (I'm up in Vermont, so I have less than a month to the first frost in my area. Some regions have already had a frost) and shore up the colony. Should I feed the hives to help the recoup from these attacks? First thing to do is reduce the entrance on the colony to just one or two bee spaces wide. Then after a few days providing the yellowjacket attack seems to be much reduced or even better to have stopped altogether it would be time to feed. Feeding without reducing the entrance will only encourage further yellowjack predation. Peter Dalby ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 16:06:35 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Greg J Zujus Subject: No Eggs Hello all, While inspecting my 4 hives today I noticed that one of my hives has no eggs or larve sized brood. There is some capped brood present. It is almost like the queen just stopped laying all at once. The queen is present as I saw her while inspecting the hive. Is it normal for a queen to just cease laying this time of year or is this queen just shot ? All my other queens are still laying quite well, however these are all new queens as all the other hives swarmed this fall. Greg Z Connecticut _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 12:47:10 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Paul Nicholson Subject: Re: Yellow jackets! In-Reply-To: <082FD83001A33400@riser.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 13:18 -0500 9/14/98, TD wrote: >I had noticed that my hive has been rather feisty as of late and was >perplexed until I opened my hive the other day and was attacked by a >yellow jacket! >I looked inside for evidence of bee slaughter, and found a couple of dead >bees with their abdomen removed. What can I do to beat off these pest >before winter sets in (I'm up in Vermont, so I have less than a month to >the first frost in my area. Some regions have already had a frost) and >shore up the colony. > >Should I feed the hives to help the recoup from these attacks? I've had Yellow jacket problems here in Southern California. My soluton is the following. 1) Close up the entrance to the hive so there is a smaller opening for the bees to defend. You must be careful of the temperatures though. If it gets really hot, open things up for ventilation. 2) Use yellow jacket traps. You can get these at Home Depot. They have a bait repository at the bottom with holes in it for the yellow jackets to enter. Above the bait is an inverted cone and a cover that traps the yellow jackets as they leave the bait. These things can fill up in a few days. I use pieces of hot dog for bait and hang the traps on the hives. The bees will not enter them. 3) Feed the hive, but you must be careful that the yellow jackets do not overwhelm the bees to get to the food. This has happened to me with an entrance feeder. Again, reducing the entrance size makes it easier for the bees to defend themselves. Paul ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 23:33:19 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: Madeleines British conditions report Hi Madeleine/All I enjoyed reading your report. I would be interested to hear from as many british beekeepers what funny symtoms their hives have displayed this past season. The reason I ask is as follows. A number of researchers have over the past few decades kept the Cape Honeybee, apis mellifera capensis in various locations around the UK. This bee is unusual in it's ability to infect other races hives by way of it's workers which are able to lay diploid eggs(ie worker eggs) which can then be raised as either worker or queen of pure capensis descent - ie no dilution through mating. This queen will hence produce capensis like drones, and some of the other eggs layed by her mothertype worker will quite possibly leave the hive and infect other hives. If one had a very warm winter, like much of the north experienced last winter, these infected hives will have survived, as will cape queens. If a hive is infected with cape bees, the other queen (irrespective of race) is superceded withing a short time period by a queen raised from the cape laying workers eggs. So my explanation for the funny symptoms being mentioned could be an increase in the background noise from cape bees which are varroa resistant to a greater degree the northern races, are reasonably cold tolerant, produce reasonable yields, are not very aggressive and swarm quite a bit, emmitting often small swarms. They are also genetically suited to cold wet drizzly weather and are conspicioulsy black to grey in colouration. They also often swarm and don't raise a queen cell for a few weeks as everyone is fighting over who's going to be the mother of the queen. Once one or two lines have emerged as dominant they raise a queen - I have had laying worker colonies goe for up to two months before requeening. I have one nuc now which raised nine queens, produced a few swarms and now has a handful of bees that have gone laying worker and have started to rear a pathetic little queen cell. I will be interested to hear more input on this. Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis Eastern Cape Prov. South Africa Time = Honey After careful consideration, I have decided that if I am ever a V.I.P the I. may not stand for important. (rather influential, ignorant, idiotic, intelectual, illadvised etc) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 17:34:58 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Buckfast and meaness Ian says>Therefore it is highly unlikely that there is any so-called "AHB" genetic material in the Buckfast.< I accept what is being said...with Canadian or European Buckfast. I do not with US Buckfast. I have seen maps of AHB infestation in Texas, and we all know where the Weavers are. I know someone on this list recalls hearing a Texas inspector say that the Weavers are "outside the area". I respectively disagree, as I attended a presentation on AHB given by a Texas inspector where he maintained that "Weavers' were in the middle of the infestation, but had kept their breeders free of AHB genes by artificial insemination". Regardless, Ian is correct. If we all marked our queens and re-queened annually we wouldn't be having this discussion. Lloyd ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 17:50:00 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Yellow jackets TD asks about yellow jackets. If it is only a couple of bees , forget about doing anything. While the yellow jackets will certainly take honey, they are after protein more than carbohydrates. If your hive is severely depleted of bees, feeding will not do any good and my guess is you have had a mite attack. Combine the hive now with another and leave it for the winter. If you have a good population of bees and brood but are low on stores (if you can easily lift the top hive body, you are low on stores), feed either now or, if you prefer, after the frost that decimates the yellow jackets. If you feed inside the hive, the yellow jackets won t take enough to bother. Remember, one gallon of feed is only 12 pounds and you need at least 60 pounds to get through the winter. I d start feeding now. Lloyd LloydSpear@email.msn.com Owner, Ross Rounds the finest in comb honey production. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 14:57:37 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Yellow jackets! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" A few years ago I responded to the following problem, with a package that got posted on the FAQ: >I had noticed that my hive has been rather feisty as of late and was >perplexed until I opened my hive the other day and was attacked by a >yellow jacket! >I looked inside for evidence of bee slaughter, and found a couple of dead >bees with their abdomen removed. What can I do to beat off these pest >before winter sets in (I'm up in Vermont, so I have less than a month to >the first frost in my area. Some regions have already had a frost) and >shore up the colony. ********* I repeat here the writeup: ********* YELLOW JACKET CONTROL Yellow jackets (Vespula spp. - colonial wasps), can pose a severe problem for people when these wasps aggressively seek food. (Remember, though, yellow jackets are not all bad; they do pollinate plants, such as squash, and dispose of waste matter.) Early in the season meat is preferred; later they focus more on sweets [a conclusion that needs testing]. Normally, a colony lives only a year, after its start in the spring of each year by a single mated and overwintered queen. As the season progresses, nest sizes grow and can contain thousands of individuals by late summer or fall. In mild climates colonies can even overwinter. Effective control measures vary according to the circumstances. 1) At eating areas In a backyard, wasps can be kept under control by diligent use of traps (next section). Public picnic areas, however, have wasps already conditioned to the readily available food supply (messy previous picnickers). Bring along a fly swatter and eliminate the early arrivals - other wasps are then not recruited. Fortunately, individuals of many yellow jacket species do not attack when not near their nest. Wasps do not hesitate to go into soft drink cans or bottles, posing a problem for anyone not paying sufficient attention before taking another swallow. Neither do they hesitate to ride along on a meat sandwich as it is put into one's mouth. Watch out, also, wasps seek out meat covered hands, fingers, or utensils. If one places an effective trap (next section) 20-30 feet upwind from the picnic table, the foraging wasps, when shooed away by picnickers, continue to go upwind past the picnic table and end up in the trap . 2) Remote treatment Yellow jacket bait traps have been used more than a century, with one basic characteristic in design: Wasps will fly into a funnel (sometimes quite small) to get at the bait provided and then cannot get out of the transparent or translucent enclosure that incorporates the funnel. One can buy any variety of ready-made traps with a wide range of effectiveness. The following two companies (among others) have produced successful traps: Seabright Laboratories, 4026 Harlan Street, Emeryville, CA 94608, (800) 284-7363 or (415) 655-3126; Sterling International, Inc., P.O. Box 220, Liberty Lake, WA 99019, (800) 666-6766 [FAX: (509) 928-7313]. These commercial traps can become clogged with yellow jackets in a relatively short time during severe infestations, and then one must remove them. The problem then arises that live wasps may still be inside and pose a threat. In that case, one can place the trap in a freezer or an ice chest, wait until the cold immobilizes the wasps, empty the trap into a plastic bag, and keep tightly closed until they suffocate. One can also construct a simple and safe trap at virtually no cost - an example follows. Start with a one gallon translucent milk bottle. With a razor blade, cut a couple of small slits downward from one point (three quarter inch across at the bottom), a little more than halfway up the sides. Bend the point so formed inward. Fashion part of a wire coat hanger into a hook at the bottom and thread it through a small hole punctured into the cap so that the hook will be down about halfway to the bottom of the bottle when inserted. Bend the top of the coat hanger piece so that it can be suspended from the lid. Fill the bottle about one-third full of soapy water. Then pierce a small piece of turkey, salami, or ham (small enough to go through the bottle opening) with the hook and put the lid, hook, and meat in place in the bottle's neck. Hang the bottle in a tree or bush upwind from the area where wasps are not wanted. You might also dig a hole and place the bottle in the ground so the dowiwind opening is at ground level (wasps often search along the ground for food). If no gallon bottles are available, a one-liter transparent soft drink bottle should suffice. 3) Nest location known (perhaps with more than one entrance) If one knows the location of a ground nesting colony (e.g., Vespula pennsylvanica), the entire colony can be exterminated quite easily by using nothing more than soapy water. Take care, though, because these wasps are highly defensive of their nest, usually allowing one to get no closer than about 10 feet before attacking. Some people prefer to treat the colony at dawn or late evening, when activity at the entrance is less than in mid-day. Fill an adjustable nozzle spray bottle with water, add one level tablespoon of liquid detergent, and shake. Set the spray nozzle on stream, approach from downwind (also from downslope or protected by bushes, if possible), and spray wasps (guards as well as departing and returning individuals) at the nest entrance as fast as possible from a distance of 10-15 feet (practice at a target first to improve aim). Wear full protection, including a beekeeper hat and veil, if possible. Once all activity at the entrance has ceased, pour a bucket of soapy water into the ground through one of the entrances and block all entrances with a shovelful or two of dirt. 4) A take home poison When wasp infestations become severe, you may wish to use stronger measures. To reduce their numbers, one can lace a desired food with poison after yellow jackets become committed to that source of food. With this method, timing and procedure are somewhat critical. Expose marauding wasps to canned cat food, such as a shrimp and tuna mixture. Allow the number of foragers to build up into a "feeding frenzy." Then provide a second dish alongside the first, but one laced with a take home poison. Orthene (20 drops per small can of cat food) or KNOX OUT (trade name for a micro-encapsulated diazinon product; one-half teaspoon per can). Don't attempt to use straight diazinon, or the laced food will be rejected). 5) Trapping with heptyl butyrate A new trap used on Santa Cruz Island, California in 1995 caught more than 10,000 yellow jacket wasps (Vespula pennsylvanica) per day during a three-day period. The trap is VERY simple. Adapt a gallon milk/water jug with screw top lid into the trap. On the flat surface underneath the handle, cut out a 2" X 4" rectangle and cover the space with a screen by using masking tape (a stickier tape would be better). On the two opposite faces, about half way up the bottle, cut two sides of a triangle (1" long, apex up) and bend the flap into the bottle. Partially fill the bottle (about 1.5" deep) with a strong solution of soapy water (teaspoon per quart), taking care to not have many bubbles above the water surface. Then dip a pipe cleaner only a little way into pure heptyl butyrate, insert it into the top of the bottle, and clamp it in place with the screw top lid. In the morning place the bottle on the ground with screen side toward oncoming wind. Soon a crowd of wasps will come from downwind. Heptyl butyrate is very expensive, but it can be diluted with ethanol. Some suppliers have more reasonable prices than others. A reasonable choice: Pfaltz & Bauer, Inc. 172 East Aurora St., Waterbury, CONN. 06708 (203) 574-0075 - a little over $70 for 100 mg in 1996. Be careful and don't spill, though, unless you want the wasps everywhere! Also, heptyl butyrate apparently does not have a long shelf life unless refrigerated. Adrian M. Wenner Prof. Emeritus (Natural History) Univ. of Calif., Santa Barbara 9/98 Adrian M. Wenner (805) 963-8508 (home phone) 967 Garcia Road (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 ************************************************************************ * "...in the drift of the years I by and by found out that a Consensus * * examines a new [idea] with its feelings rather oftener than with its * * mind. You know, yourself, that is so. Do those people examine with * * feelings that are friendly to evidence? You know they don't." * * * * Mark Twain - 1923 * ************************************************************************ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 21:16:55 -0800 Reply-To: beeman@gci.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tom Elliott Organization: Home Subject: Re: Learning Curve MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hunter Williams wrote: > > honey contains very small amounts of the botulism bacteria. Honey, as well as any unsterilized food, MAY contain the spores of the bacteria. It is much like foulbrood in this respect. In most digestive systems the spores are not able to germinate and are totally harmless. They are able to grow in rare infants, who do not have a sufficiently matured digestive system to prevent the anaerobic growth of the bacteria. Even a very small amount of the toxin these germs produce is dangerous. It is not related to any immunity to the toxin that allows adults to ingest these spores regularly. -- "Test everything. Hold on to the good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21) Tom Elliott Chugiak, Alaska U.S.A. beeman@gci.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 19:19:51 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Christopher Slade Subject: Mean hive Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Tom Barrett asks the best way of killing off a hive. Tom, the cleanest way to commit insecticide is by spraying the bees on the comb with dilute liquid detergent, probably at a similar strength as your wife would use to do the washing up. The detergent washes the wax coating from the bees and they die from dehydration. That's the theory. I tried it once and it worked. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 19:19:53 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Christopher Slade Subject: Moving hives Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Tom Barrett asks about returning to his home apiary an experimental nucleus he had moved elsewhere. How soon could he do this? Tom, I don't know the answer. Probably it depends on the time of year and how long ago you moved them out of the home apiary. In mid summer the turnover of bees is a few weeks but in our part of the world (the offshore islands of western europe) bees hatched in mid July may well still be alive the following March. I presume without knowing that their memory of home location is lifelong. This is a hypothesis you may care to test with another experimental nuc and marked bees next year. Bees do re-programme their memory of location when they swarm. This is why the Taranov swarm control method works. You can shake a swarm and hive it in the same apiary that it came from. As this is an experimental nuc you may wish to undertake another experiment with it. Shake all the bees off the combs and hive them in a skep or the equivalent. Take the skep of bees and box of empty combs home and re unite them. Note what happens and tell us please. Chris Slade