========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 21:48:17 -0500 Reply-To: highplains@mail.midmo.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Terry B Reynolds Organization: High Plains Subject: learning curve MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In July I purchased three colonies of bees - bottom board, deep brood super & top, which had come from spring splits. In August (when bottom was duely full) I placed 2nd deep super, Apistan strips and grease patties for AFB. 3 1/2 weeks ago when 2nd deep was completely drawn out and partially filled I placed a shallow honey super with Duragilt foundation. As of this past weekend no beginning of drawing out although second deep is 90-100% filled. After reading last weeks postings, I removed shallow supers, cut communication holes in foundation, randomly sprayed frames with sugar water, and bore 1/2 inch hole in that super to prevent winter suffocation/aid in reduction of condensation, then replaced them. Similar to todays posting, I too had noticed a pungent odor about the hives, but am now relieved that it is likely goldenrod, aster or mint, all of which we have an abundance of in bloom at this time. My concerns/confusion: 1. It was my understanding that the two deep supers would be used for brood. By my observation, the second deep is mostly honey stores, very little brood. Does this mean my colony is not strong/queen is not good? 2. Until a week or so after placement of shallow supers I had been tending my bees in "street clothes". Although I consider my bees extremely gentle, I suffered stings to each thumb at that time and my hands both looked like blown up doctors office exam gloves - in fact I missed a day from work due to inability to perform manual tasks. My point is I have become rather apprehensive of my hive checks, am SUITING UP in addition to smoking, and am reluctant to go into that bottom super. Something I read here made me question whether it is the normal thing to do (although common sense tells me it must be done to check brood/etc) - please confirm or deny necessity of bottom brood checks, as well as frequency. 3. I have noticed that most of the new comb/cappings in the 2nd deep are very white, however, this past weekend I found quite a large amount of what appeared to be empty or nearly empty DARK comb sharing a frame with honey and a few capped brood (no discernable larvae). Is this comb that has produced brood or is there something else going on? 4. I am rather anxious about whether or not to feed and if so when to make that decision? At present each hive has a deep super full of honey stores. I am not going to take any off unless they come near filling the shallow, but I understand it takes quite a bit of energy to draw the comb out, so at this stage, that may be pushing it a little far. Is what's in the bottom brood box plus the 2nd deep super enough to overwinter? If not, when do I feed? Thanks for any support/suggestions you may have. I've been on the B-List since getting my bees and have learned a lot from it and enjoy it greatly. Patty in Central Missouri - 3 hives/less than 3 months ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 11:05:39 +0100 Reply-To: mpym@hive.netkonect.co.uk Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Madeleine Pym Subject: Re: Beehive odour MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To add to the debate, my bees are currently working michaelmas daisy, what I think is what you call aster. It is always the same every year. At this time my whole garden smells of the stuff and it is not at all pleasant. We have only very little golden rod, whatever grows in people's gardens, and it finishes before the michaelmas really gets going. By contrast my area is next to some old marsh land which is a conserved area. It is covered with the michaelmas daisy. So in my case I can attribute the smell to that. It is a god send at this time of the year too as the bees will bring in pollen and stores from it ready for winter. Next thing is ivy. On another point relating to odours. Andy Nachbaur mentioned extracting mint honey and the smell lingering for a long time afterwards in the honey house. This year my father, and others in his area, have had an unusual amount of a very dark, ruby red honey that smells like old josticks and damp basements (my opinion only). It also has a taste that stays in the mouth for a long time after eating it. It taints the wax which is a greenish yellow colour on those frames, and when we melted down the wax it smells really strongly, just like the honey. We believe it to be from the Himalayan Balsam which is colonising vast areas, especially by rivers, in his area. The flowers do smell exactly as the honey tastes and smells. But this flower has been around in this area for many years now, and never produced this result in the hives, so why now? Guess it is just a good year for balsam. Madeleine Pym, London ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 11:41:30 +0100 Reply-To: mpym@hive.netkonect.co.uk Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Madeleine Pym Subject: Protection for bees - but which ones? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Regarding bees as a protected species. I had a very interesting response when I got in touch with the National Trust, and other organisations, that 'care' for a large tract of heath land earlier this summer. I was looking for a place to set down some bees on the heather. There are ling and bell heathers in this area. I was initially turned away and given the same stock answer: basically to do with public liability, and stories of people turning over hives, or looking inside them, etc. I came home to a message on my phone from one of the wardens to say that further to our conversation he had now been advised by English Nature that he would not be allowed to have bees on his site. These are the three reasons he was given: 1. DOMESTIC BEES ARE NOT ALLOWED ON AN 'SSSI' 2. BEEKEEPERS (DOMESTIC) BEES ARE MORE AGGRESSIVE - compared with wild bees and will compete with them for food. (This was apparently the major reason) 3. BEEKEEPERS BEES WILL BRING IN VARROA - they believe they can protect the feral colonies from varroa by keeping out beekeepers. I would like to know who on earth is advising them on these matters. Well, I wrote off that particular area - at least in regard to the NT or the RSPB, because all the heath is managed by some body or other which is governed by English Nature (as I understand it). But when I got back to London and took a walk over on the marshes I saw a sign saying that - because the michaelmas daisy is becoming so invasive the organisation responsible for the marshes will be eradicating a large area of it next year. Who has ordered this... English Nature. Just as they issued orders to clear much of the comfrey that grows there too, earlier in the year. And to think I had been intending to contact them about putting an 'educational' apiary up there in a year or two, to teach children and others in the community about bees. I now already know the answer presumably. The implications are extremely worrisome because as far as I understand, EN are in conrol of more or less all the 'wild' areas left in Britain. Which would mean that beekeepers would not have access to these areas. Only gardens or farmland. It brings up a number of ethical questions too, to do with man's rights, responsibilities, and considerations in respect of 'nature' and in his relationship to bees to name but few. I would have hoped that beekeepers would become an endangered species too, deserving of protection as much as other creatures. I had not expected our bees (and us as the protectors of varroa and breeders of aggressive bees) to be demonised in this ignorant fashion. So here is what I am thinking of doing at present. In order to understand better what on earth is going on, I am considering taking my free module (I am going on to my second year at university, studying philosophy - with an interest in environmental ethics) in Environmental Decision Making, and perhaps another in Wildlife Conservation Management. And contacting English Nature for clarification of their position. Well you have to start somewhere. Alternatively I could perhaps ask them for a job, destroying any of those 'bad' aggressive, varroa ridden bees that dare to cross the boundary and enter protected land. As a beekeeper I am sure I would be able to spot the difference. Then again maybe they should just shoot the beekeepers. If anyone has anymore to add on this subject I would be very interested. Madeleine Pym, London. (Thinking a beesuit is possibly necessary but hardly sufficient for becoming a dragon slayer, but at least I can make my own smoke) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 21:20:12 PDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Antimicrobial Activity of Australia Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Recent posts about the work being carried out on honey in the USA prompte= d me to write. Here in Australia, the beekeepers are funding a project, through the Hone= y Bee Research and Development Committee, on the above subject. It is = being carried out by Dr. Craig Davis at the Centre for Food Technology = in Brisbane. Craig is sampling different floral types of honey thoughout Australia loo= king for antimicrobial activity. He has come up with one floral source = so far, called jellybush, which is now under going clinical trials at one= of the leading hospitals in Brisbane. It is being used to treat unrespo= nsive venous leg ulcers and the results to date are very encouraging. There has been plenty of anecdotal evidence of honey being used for this = but a lot of the medicos are sceptical. This clinical trial will be good= . This jellybush honey is being registered for use in creams. Not all = jellybush honey is floral active and so has to be tested before any claim= s can be made. Some honey has been found to be "peroxide" honey i.e. it contains an enzy= me (glucose oxidase) which produces hydrogen peroxide, an antibacterial = chemical. Craig's has tested hundreds of honey from Australia and we can look forwa= rd to some very useful results that will help the medical world. It will= also put an extra dollar in the beekeeper's pocket for those that can = produce the honey that has antimicrobial properties It will also raise = the profile of honey as a healing agent. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 21:35:47 +0000 Reply-To: aweinert@tpgi.com.au Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: aweinert Subject: Cost of Supers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I have been offered some hard wood supers with the incentive that they will last longer than pine supers that last only 2 -3 years in our environment. I would be interested to know whether the group thinks that hard wood supers that "should last " 5 - 10 years would be a better investment for the hobbiest and if so how much more should they pay. Supers cost around $8 - 10 Australian dollars in commercial quantities. and about $12 dollars from the specialist suppliers. What are your thoughts on this Thanks Andrew Weinert Atherton, Tropical North Queensland Australia 17.17 Degrees South, 145.30 Degrees East ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 22:27:11 +0900 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: j h & e mcadam Subject: Re: Propolis Preparation MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Steve Newcomb asked how to use propolis: >My question is: what is the proper method of cleaning the propolis. Most >of mine was scraped from the tops of the frames, but there is some wax and >bee parts in it. Any advice would be appreciated. Propolis collected by scraping from frames is not marketable (in my experience, anyway) because of the wax and wood etc. contamination. Propolis mats enable propolis to be collected in an almost pure condition and I do not know whether it would be safe to consume propolis scraped from hives. In any case I would not consume propolis daily as it is not a food supplement but a natural antibiotic. I understand from an Eastern European immigrant to Australia that she was able to buy propolis in her own country which was then dissolved in pure alcohol and a few drops taken as a treatment for sore throats. You may wish to experiment with this (I also understand that propolis has an extremely unpleasant taste taken straight.) Betty McAdam HOG BAY APIARY Penneshaw, Kangaroo Island J.H. & E. McAdam Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: j h & e mcadam Subject: Re: Honey Tasting MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" John Sturman writes: >I am looking for tips and suggestions as to how to guide the members in >constructively sampling, and comparing flavors, appearance, etc. of the >different honeys. What have other clubs done in the past? I am looking forward >to comments. Even a very simple tasting where beekeepers bring a jar of whichever honey they fancy is an interesting experience and can be a valuable education. Some honeys can be identified by the colour of the comb, others need a few clues such as the time of year collected. A sealed frame can be a guessing competition as to the nectar source or you can have blind tastings to see if beekeepers can actually spot the difference between different varieties (and then name the honey types). The taste of the lighter honeys contrasted with the naturally darker honeys and ground flora as against tree nectar sources are all good discussion points. I suggest you keep the procedure informal and encourage members to bring as many types of honey as they can lay their hands on...and then let it develop. It is a very rare beekeeper that does not like a honey tasting. Betty McAdam HOG BAY APIARY Penneshaw, Kangaroo Island J.H. & E. McAdam Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Ants in hive Tom wonders about ants he sees on his varroa floor and whether their brethren might overwhelm his hive. I suspect, Tom, you have the type of varroa floor that the bees cannot get to, and that is why you are seeing ants there. (Question might the ants be carrying off mites and therefore defeating the purpose of the varroa floor?) In your climate I sincerely doubt whether ants could overwhelm a normal hive. Every year I seem to have a couple or a few hives that will support black ant colonies numbering a couple of hundred huge black ants. They are invariably between the outer and inner covers until perhaps the middle of June, when the bee colony becomes so strong they start to occupy this space. Then the ants are driven off. If you and I were in the tropics, or even the equivalent of southern France, it would be a different story and we would have to worry about ants a lot more. Lloyd LloydSpear@email.msn.com Owner, Ross Rounds the finest in comb honey production. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 10:05:01 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Green Subject: Re: Cost of Supers Comments: To: aweinert@tpgi.com.au Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/22/98 8:52:29 AM Eastern Daylight Time, aweinert@tpgi.com.au writes: > I have been offered some hard wood supers with the incentive that > they will last longer than pine supers that last only 2 -3 years > in our environment. > > I would be interested to know whether the group thinks that hard > wood supers that "should last " 5 - 10 years would be a better > investment for the hobbiest and if so how much more should they > pay. I know nothing about Australian woods, so probably should keep my mouth shut. But beeing somewhat compulsive, I can't. Around here pine will last 15 -20 years, if you keep bees in and termites out. In northern USA, some supers will last a lifetime. I used to have some from New York that were made around the turn of the century, but South Carolina sun baked the life out of them, and I haven't seen any of these lately, so I guess they've all been culled. Pine supers that are stacked up without bees to dry them out will have a much shorter life. Cypress, especially heart wood, is preferred for bottom boards, though expensive. Termites rarely bother it and rot is very slow of a problem. In some areas cedar is used likewise. I don't set my hives on the ground if I can help it. I find free pallets, and let them rot instead. The bees are healthier too. A pine pallet on the ground is only good for two years on average. Our termites LOVE pine. Oak will go double to triple that. Rot is much slower and termites too. BTW, is hobbiest the superlative for hobbyist? My congratulations! ;o) Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html The Pollination Home Page: http://www.pollinator.com Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 10:19:17 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tim Sterrett Subject: Re: learning curve Comments: To: highplains@mail.midmo.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Patty in Central Missouri writes: 1. It was my understanding that the two deep supers would be used for brood. By my observation, the second deep is mostly honey stores, very little brood. ******************** Bees fill the combs with honey from the top down and raise brood from the bottom up. So the brood nest moves up and down in the hive as the colony balances incoming nectar with their need to raise brood. In autumn, you probably want the bees to store lots of honey for winter so the brood nest is going to be pushed down. ********************** 2. Although I consider my bees extremely gentle, I suffered stings to each thumb. ********************** Even gentle bees can be cantankerous at times. The best time to work bees is in the middle of a sunny day when a nectar flow is happening; bees don't seem to pay any attention to the beekeeper because they are busy. The worst time to work bees is while they are both excited by the discovery of unguarded honey and trying to defend their own stores (robbing a weak colony or cleaning out wet extracting supers, for instance). (Working bees at night in the rain is also not pleasant.) If bees come rocketing out of the colony when the hive bodies are pried apart, the wise hobbyist closes the hive and walks away. Although I often work my bees without getting any stings, I am not surprised when I do get a sting . I remove the stinger rapidly with my hive tool, smoke the spot , and continue. How often to check the brood nest: I check the brood nest at least once in spring to look for brood and AFB. For the rest of the year, external signs should help you gauge the health of the brood nest, especially if you have more than one colony. If the behavior or number of bees at the front of one hive seems different, then you should investigate. If lots of bees are actively foraging, bringing in nectar and pollen, then the brood nest is probably OK. (When I first got bees, I was inside the brood nest frequently because I wanted to see what was going on.) ********************* 3. DARK comb sharing a frame with honey and a few capped brood (no discernible larvae). Is this comb that has produced brood or is there something else going on? ******************** You have figured this one out. Each pupa spins a cocoon and, except for the end of the cocoon where the adult bee emerges, these cocoons stay in the comb forever. The comb gets darker and the cells get slightly smaller. ******************** 4. Is what's in the bottom brood box plus the 2nd deep super enough to overwinter? If not, when do I feed? ******************** A full deep hive body of honey should be enough for a colony for winter. Stand behind the colony, put one hand on top to steady the hive and, with the other hand, lift the colony with the handhold on the bottom hive body. A colony ready for winter will not move unless you really heave upward. This method can be used all winter to check hive stores and compare stores in different colonies. Lifting off the outer cover in cold weather will let you see whether the bee cluster has eaten most of its honey and moved up to the top of the hive. If, on a cold day, the cluster has flowed up through the center hole in the inner cover, the bees are starving and need to be fed. Tim -- Tim Sterrett sterrett@voicenet.com (southeastern) Pennsylvania, USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 09:38:59 CST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Layne J. Westover" Subject: Re: learning curve Patty, I hope some other people respond to you too because they might give you good advice, different advice or better advice than me, but I will give you my opinion. Since I live further south than you, things may not apply as well. Around here (central Texas) I've been told that bees need about 50-60 pounds of honey to get through the winter. That would be the brood box filled with honey (the part that's not filled with brood) and a shallow super filled with honey. I think they can probably get by with even less here, but in your area, I'll bet they'll need that and maybe some more. What I would say is that if you have two deep supers and the top is completely full of honey that you should have enough food for your bees to overwinter. I'd worry more about feeding them in the Spring. Watch them in the Spring. They will move up into the top brood chamber as they start raising brood in the Spring as they use the honey in the top brood box, and after the queen and bees have moved up and have "filled" (not actually full) the top box with brood, you should switch (reverse) the top and bottom boxes so the queen will be back on the bottom and the now empty bottom box will be on the top so the bees can use it for Spring storage of pollen and honey. They may move up again and you might have to do the switching a couple of times. If you don't do that, the queen will stay up at the top and the bees will stop using the bottom (now empty) box and you might have a problem with swarming. Here where we are, we get some warm early weather, and then some late cold and wet weather regularly in the Spring, so it's that last cold week when the bees can't forage but are in full gear raising new brood that is the critical time to feed them so they won't starve. What I've heard is that if you can see 2-3-4 inches of honey at the tops of the brood frames, then you have about a week to 10 days worth of food for those bees to eat before you need to feed them. I would say that because you have only honey and relatively no brood in your top box is not a problem nor does it indicate there is any weakness or problem with your bees. See my above description of the bees moving up and using it to raise brood in the Spring. It appears to me that you are in good shape for now, and keep an eye on them in the Spring. My first year of beekeeping I had the same experience as you when examining my bees in the late season when they were full of honey stores and high population of bees. I started getting stung and it really "scared me" to go in and look at them because they had become so mean, so I didn't do it. I'm probably not the one to answer that question for you. See what somebody else has to say about it. I think you'll find that a new smaller colony in the Spring is easier and funner to examine because they are so gentle, but when they get big and full of brood and honey stores, the bees that were formerly gentle are now very defensive because they have something to protect. You need to learn the "behavioral modification" techniques that are used to make it easier to work with them. Smoke is a very valuable tool if used judiciously and correctly. If used in the wrong way, it will just irritate them. Watch an experienced beekeeper demonstrate how they do it. Watch the weather too. Sometimes you can open the hive and tell immediately how the bees are going to act that day. If it's a bad day, it may be easier to come back on a better day. Keep learning, trying, experiencing and talking to other people and asking their advice and experience and you will gradually learn what works and what doesn't and then you'll "know when to fold, know when to hold up, know when to walk away, know when to keep..." etc. as "The Gambler" would say. Best wishes for success and an enjoyable experience. Seems to me from your description that you and your bees are doing fine. Layne Westover College Station, Texas (I tried to send this as a personal response but it was returned to me as an undeliverable address when sent to highplains@mail.midmo.net) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 16:19:43 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Dalby Subject: Re: learning curve MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My advice is fairly simple. Why not join your local beekeepers association, address usually available from a local library and link up with a nearby experienced beekeeper who you can work with and can advise you as to what is best for your bees. Buddying up in this way can expand your knowledge rapidly but does sometimes mean you doing a bit of work for the more experienced beekeeper and vice versa. Peter Dalby, Chairman British Beekeepers Association. England ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 15:58:29 -500 Reply-To: spknews@zoomnet.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Steven Keller Subject: Re: Antimicrobial Activity of Australia Honey Good news from Austrailia. I hope Dr. Davis is communicating with Dr. Peter Moler in New Zealand. Dr. Moler is working with Manuka honey and has found it to have magnificent medical potential. Wish more people in the USA would be examining this aspect of honey and other hive related products. Steve Keller USA > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 16:21:41 -0400 Reply-To: dublgully@worldnet.att.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Gaida Subject: Queen Bee Research MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I hope someday to have information to offer instead of always asking questions. I am so impressed with the knowledge on Bee-L, I can't seem to stop telling people about it. Even got a few old timers to decide they need to get into this "computer thing". I am preparing a presentation for our next beekeepers' meeting. The topic will be "Queens", the different breeds, i.e. Buckfast, Italian, Carniolian, Midnite, etc., their good points, weak points, etc. I would like the handout to include as much information about each that I can find. Talking at the meeting is always a good starting point, gets the juices flowing, then, I believe, the handout should take that talk to a greater level. I will ask the members to come prepared to defend their choices. But it is always good to have some facts and literature to help the fence walkers make up their mind. If you are aware of any information like what I have in mind, please let me know. Or if you are a queen breeder, send me some of your info. It is amazing where the handouts end up. If any of you have ever worked with Hubert "Honey Bee" Martin, he is 96 years young and a very active member of our club. He says he has worked all over the U.S. Thanks again for your time. Judy Kentucky, USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 16:51:21 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: MLS Subject: Q's for 5th Graders & teacher MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Will anyone care to answer a few questions my 5th grade class and I are puzzling over during our bee unit? --Do drone bees ever leave the hive to collect nectar? --Would a drone bee (or worker) ever be allowed to "mingle" with bees from another unrelated hive? --Can you please explain how a bee can feed on alfalfa? We only picture them feeding from flowers. Thank you so much. We are very excited to have found your BEE list! Very interesting discussions currently about flowers, smells, flavors. . . Mary ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 10:47:32 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Learning curve Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi All Peter Dalby gives good advice when he suggests working with an experienced beekeeper. And thank you Peter, for the advice you gave me re combatting ants in a hive. My thanks also to all BEE-L contributors for the advice and assistance I have received since I joined the list. I put myself on a 'course' working with experienced beekeepers this year. (This is my second year with bees, and I felt a need of seeing how it is done). It is an unbelievable experience working with somebody, who does things in a way that appears to be different to what it says in the books. I also saw how different beekeepers handled similar situations. One of my teachers told me, that my trouble was, that the bees were not reading the same books that I was reading! But seriously, I learned more in three sessions with experienced beekeepers than I would have learned by reading books for 10 times as long. I saw queen marking carried out, I saw eggs for the first time, and I saw how these experienced beekeepers handled swarm control. In exchange for the teaching, I humped hives, supers etc. and took a few stings as well. And of course we talked bees all day long. All in all, a very fair trade, and I reckon that I profited handsomely from it. Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland e mail cssl@iol.ie Tel + 353 1 289 5269 Fax + 353 1 289 9940 Latitude 53 Degrees 16' North Longitude 6 Degrees 9' West of Greenwich ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 10:44:23 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: October 3 Beekeeping Workshop, Charles Andros MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT This message was originally submitted by lindena@SOVER.NET to the BEE-L list at CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU. It has been edited to improve formatting. Dear Beekeeper, Thanks to good rains early in the summer and sunny weather when it counted, I had a record season: 3600 lbs. of honey! What=92s more, hives will require less feeding than usual. I shall hold a beekeeping workshop from 1-3:30 PM on October 3, at the Paul Harlow Farm on Route 5 in North Westminster, VT, 1/2 mile north of the I-91 Exit 5 ramp. ook for the BEE sign on the west side. Topics of discussion will include treatment of nosema and tracheal mites, winter preparations, fall and winter protein and carbohydrate supplements, wintering nuclei, and making beeswax handcream. Rain date: October 4. Bring a veil, if you have one, as we shall be opening some colonies. I do have extra veils for those without. Cost is $20 per person, children free. Email: lindena@sover.net or call 603-756-9056 to register to assure sufficient literature. Thank you, Charles F. Andros Former NH/VT Apiary Inspector '78-=9289 Linden Apiaries 1 McLean Road POB 165 Walpole, NH 03608-0165 USA/EUA 603-756-9056 phone/fax if notified by phone email: lindena@sover.net Residence: Latitude: 43=B0 05=92 North, Longitude: 72=B0 21=92 15" West Keeper of 41 two-queen colonies for honey, pollen, propolis, pollination, nuclei, beeswax, apitherapy, and education. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 12:36:04 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: billy whitener Subject: Questions for 5th graders and teacher Hello, I will try to answer your questions as best I can, it's good to see young people learning about a really interesting insect. 1) Drones don't leave the hive to collect nectar, they are fed by the "house" bees inside the hive, older drones may feed themselves directly from honey cells, once the drones become older. 2)Drone frequently drift into neighboring hives, the guard bees seem to pretty much ignore the "strange" drones, indeed this is one way in which disease can be spread from hive to hive, worker bees are a different and the acceptance of a drifting worker will vary from hive to hive, during a good nectar flow a drifting worker is more readily accepted into a strange hive, during a nectar dearth the strange bee is likely to be turned away ( by various means) or even stung. 3) Bees actually "learn" to pollinate alfalfa, they must "trip" the flower, which can actually hit the bee quite hard, experienced bees can be observed avoiding being hit by the structure, some say this is evidence of learning conditioned response). ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 12:35:41 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Jim G. Shoemaker" Subject: Evodia seeds for Vitex MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I would like to trade a small amount of evodia seeds for a like amount of vitex. My evodia bloomed for the first time this year and I was pleased with the interest the bees had for the blooms. I started my trees from seedlings and would appreciate information in starting from seeds. Marvin Walker I misplaced your e-mail address. Please respond if you are still interested. Please send any responses to my personal e-mail. Thanks, Jim Shoemaker 5160 S. Farmroad 131 Brookline, Mo 65619 (417) 887 0225 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 13:56:12 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Queen traits Hi Judy, You have bitten off a huge piece with this discussion subject! By no means am I an expert, but I can describe some of what you might do in preparation for discussion. Look at the relevant chapter(s) in The Hive and the Honeybee, by Dadant, etc. al. Look also at Brother Adam s book on searching for the best strains of bees I do not recall the exact title, but it is something like searching for the best strains of bees . Perhaps best of all call Larry Connor at Wicwas Press. 203-250-7575; ljconnor@aol.com. Larry is a fine entomologist specializing in honeybees, and seems to have every book possible on honeybee subjects. Most of all, he is very helpful and will provide you a lot of ideas on where to search and probably save you a lot of time that might otherwise be spent going in wrong directions. Part of the difficulty you will encounter is that Americans have bred the bee strains so that not a whole lot is left of the original characteristics. For example, I am told our Italians are not nearly the same bees that are kept as Italians in Italy; our Carnolians are mostly New World Carnolians , and have been highly selected to both subtract and add traits compared to the original Carnolians still found in Eastern Europe; Buckfast are a hybrid and supposedly vary greatly based on individual breeders, etc. Finally, of course, beekeepers tend to be a little opinionated, so you should have a lively, if not terribly scientific, discussion. Good luck, Lloyd LloydSpear@email.msn.com Owner, Ross Rounds the finest in comb honey production. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 14:42:20 -0400 Reply-To: BobCan@TDPI.Com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Subject: Foundation or not to Foundation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NEW as NEW gets! I have read a few books and read all the messages I can. Locally there hasn't been any bee meetings and I don't expect one as I live out in the sticks. So.... I have been building my hives and put all support pins in the frames/foundations and read a message that support pins really don't work so well.. so... I ordered wire and all the goodies that comes with it and now I have taken all the support pins out.. with the foundation still attached to the frames and I am not sure what to do with the wire. How tight do I make the wires? Do I weave the wires on both sides of the foundation or just on one side? Is it ok if I have made a very small hole after using my wire embedder? "too warm" How deep do I embed? I even tried to use a very low voltage charger to melt them in... was interesting as the wire stretched and I decided to better hold my horses until I get some good advise. I have only embedded two frames so I have many more to do so I am awaiting a reply. Thanks ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 15:16:39 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Victoria McDonough Subject: Re: Comb Honey Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi All, I'm a new beekeeper (2ed year), with 4 hives. I have a question about comb honey. I understood that the wax draws impurities out of the honey. I was therefore a little hesitant to eat or sell the honey comb. I live in a town and have two of my hives in my back yard. I'm sure some of my neighbors use chemical fertilizers and pesticides. What are the dangers with eating comb honey? (When I was little my mother always bought chunk honey form a local beekeeper and we really enjoyed it. We did however live way out in the country). Thanks, Vickie Green Harbor, MA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 00:36:51 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tom Speight Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 21 Sep 1998 to 22 Sep 1998 In-Reply-To: <906523252.218127.0@uacsc2.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <906523252.218127.0@uacsc2.albany.edu>, Automatic digest processor writes >English Nature that he would not be allowed to have bees >on his site. These are the three reasons he was given: > >1. DOMESTIC BEES ARE NOT ALLOWED ON AN 'SSSI' > >2. BEEKEEPERS (DOMESTIC) BEES ARE MORE AGGRESSIVE - compared with >wild bees and will compete with them for food. (This was apparently the >major reason) > >3. BEEKEEPERS BEES WILL BRING IN VARROA - they believe they can >protect the feral colonies from varroa by keeping out beekeepers. > >I would like to know who on earth is advising them on these matters. Madeleine, someone on the BBKA committee (Alan Johnson??), when trying to promote the value of the honeybee in connection with 'Agenda 21'- Environmental Awareness, was told by this same stupid body of people that the honeybeebee was not important because is not an indigenous animal. I suppose this proves you don't have to be intelligent to get a job as a conservationist. -- Tom Speight ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 19:22:43 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Al Needham Subject: Re: Comb Honey On Wed, 23 Sep 1998 15:16:39 EDT Victoria McDonough writes: >.......... What are the dangers with eating comb >honey? (When I was little my mother always bought >chunk honey form a local beekeeper and we really enjoyed it. >We did however live way out in the country). > >Thanks, >Vickie >Green Harbor, MA Vickie: IMHO... the dangers are less than breathing that nice polluted air that we get here on the east coast blowing in from the industrial midwest. [ No offense to you midwesterners is intended :-) ] Or, from the veggies that we are being warned about coming in from outside the USA. Or, from the lobsters that grow in the sewage/pollution being pumped out from Boston Harbor, etc. That Deer Island Plant isn't producing anything I would care to drink :-( Al ..................................................................... <"Mailto: awneedham@juno.com" > Scituate,Massachusetts,USA The Beehive-Educational Honey Bee Site Visit The Beehive Book Shoppe http://www.xensei.com/users/alwine _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 20:18:13 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: MLS Subject: Re: Q's from gr.5 & teacher MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks to all who answered our questions! It is amazing what we CAN'T learn from books sometimes! One needs the human mentoring! We have gained a great appreciation for what you all do! Mary & class BEE-utiful British Columbia, Canada . ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 23:19:45 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: George W Imirie Subject: Re: Comb Honey Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Al answered you inquiry about comb honey with much better nice words than I could command when I hear these absolutely stupid statements. Has our American society of the last 50 years made us try and find fault with air, water, and God? Are we trying to protect ourselves from ourselves? Does everyone think partially filled glass is always "half empty" rather than "half full"? What do these people think of a farm lot around the barn when they have steak, bacon and eggs for breakfast, and milk or ice cream. Maybe they are so urbanized that they have never seen a barn yard. Just as well, I think or we might have more pesticides and environmentalist crap. I raise and sell a lot of comb honey, and have swallowed the comb wax (free bulk in my diet) for my 65 years in beekeeping. Other than strokes, I am healthy as a horse. Comb honey is " from bee direct to you, untouched by human hands"! George Imirie ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 11:05:11 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: Hardwood supers - cost factor Hi Andrew/ All Andrew - you mention you have been given the chance to aquire some Hardwood supers. These will last longer - especially if they are saligna or jarra (two excellent woods in your region) They are however much heavier - a factor to consider. I once got hold of a number of packing crates of old military General Motors Jeeps and Bedford Trucks - they were Saligna and were the exact dimensions (the planks were deep enough) for cutting into hives. Anyhow, I made about ten hives out of this wood - and curse every time I have to move them as that extra few kilograms of wood makes quite a difference. An alternative to the hardwoods is a system that a beekeeping friend of mine in nearby Port Elizabeth uses (he has 300 hives of this type) is to submerge pine (cheap pithy wood) in creosote and then leave the boxes stacked up against a wall in the sun for six months to air. This has a number of advantages - he prepares the boxes over winter, and they are ready for spring. In Spring he moves his strong hives into the boxes and uses the hive bodies they were in as catch boxes. In winter he is able to prepare all the frames, putting wax in them and placing them into the creosotes boxes - due to the strong smell the bees don't nick the wax. By the time spring is there the boxes don't smell so bad anymore. These boxes are good for 20 years apparrently. (I have a box which is that vintage from another old beekeeper who used to practise this method.) Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis Eastern Cape Prov. South Africa Time = Honey After careful consideration, I have decided that if I am ever a V.I.P the I. may not stand for important. (rather influential, ignorant, idiotic, intelectual, illadvised etc) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 10:52:13 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: Protecting wild bees Hi All/Madelaine Madelaine - you mention you contacted English Nature - your government nature conservation department - about placing beehives on heathland. I support their decision not to allow it on the following grounds: - The bees you keep are not 'wild' bees. They have different characteristics to wild honeybees and have been bred to be aggressive foragers. Hence they will outcompete 'indigenous' bees in the heather, including solitary bees and bumble bees possible. - To keep the bees there you place probably more beehives than would naturally occur - in the long term this will lead to over pollination of bee pollinated plants (which is in the bees interests, but not neccessarily the interests of the overall ecosystem that one is trying to conserve) - and as a result more of these will set seed, and your plant average will swing towards Apis mellifera forage plants, as opposed to maybe wind pollinated this, or solitary pollinated that. - Beekeepers will bring in varroa - beekeepers practise 'prophylaxis' - the treatment of hive pests with unnatural chemicals - hence one brings in bees with crutches - one could make an analogy to going into an african nature reserve and seeing a leopard wearing infra red goggles, or a rhino wearing crutches so it does not develop arthritus because of it's weight and so on. One wants a nature reserve to be maybe a breeding ground for bees that are resistant to humans mess. - You mention you don't want to do 'bee' education in a nature reserve. I think that is good. Remember - beehives in nature did not have wood frames and nice boxes - they tended to bee in trees and cliffs. Hence bee education in a nature reserve should maybe be in the form of a tree hive with a small glass window - to show how natural bees work. A beehive demonstration of a normal hive fits more snuggly into an aggricultural demo - beekeeping is afterall farming, not game keeping. In summary - why fight for beekeeping space in a nature reserve - we try to minimise our influence on these spaces so they remain beautiful. Only in an agricultural sense is a line of scruffy white boxes beautiful. In a natural sense it is about as beautiful as a coca cola billboard next to the Grand Canyon, or a cellular phone billboard near the Kruger Park main entrance. Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis Eastern Cape Prov. South Africa Time = Honey After careful consideration, I have decided that if I am ever a V.I.P the I. may not stand for important. (rather influential, ignorant, idiotic, intelectual, illadvised etc) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 05:47:19 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Charles Frederic Andros Subject: Re: Garth, Re: Hardwood supers - cost factor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Garth, Have you tried paraffin-cooking supers at about 250 degrees F. for 15 minutes? For termite areas, first soak in copper naphenate, dry well one day, then the paraffin barrel. In NE US I use only pine, glue, galvanize= d screws, and paraffin, no scaly useless paint! Hive stands are helped by = CN dip prior to waxing. One treatment lasts a lifetime! It=92s very popula= r in NZ. 100 kg. paraffin is deep enough to start. Keep out rain. Heat over= a wood fire 2.5 hours and you are ready to dip. Tchau, Charles F. Andros Former NH/VT Apiary Inspector '78-=9289 Linden Apiaries 1 McLean Road POB 165 Walpole, NH 03608-0165 USA/EUA 603-756-9056 phone/fax if notified by phone email: lindena@sover.net Residence: Latitude: 43=B0 05=92 North, Longitude: 72=B0 21=92 15" West Keeper of 41 two-queen colonies for honey, pollen, propolis, pollination, nuclei, beeswax, apitherapy, and education. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 07:09:37 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David W Oakes Subject: Long lasting Hive Bodies MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The hive bodies that I use are pine. I have decided this year not to paint my new hives but Instead spray them with Tompson's Water Seal or the equivalent. After I assembled them I used a paint brush to give them a coat or two. This sealer is absorbed very fast and appears to leave no residue. Then in the fall, when the bees are in the hive I plan to use a garden sprayer to give them another coat. Quick and easy. I have a 8x12 mini barn that has wood siding and I use this technique each year and have found no rotting or the like for now 8 years. I have painted the hives in the past and the paint peels ...etc. over time. I like the natural look of the hive and I have not encountered any problems with the bees thus far. This season has been good and look forward to the next. Dave Oakes ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 14:17:50 GMT+0100 Reply-To: Anthony.Morgan@iet.hist.no Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Anthony Morgan Organization: HiST/AIN/IET Subject: Re: Hardwood supers - cost factor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Garth wrote: >......... > An alternative to the hardwoods is a system that a beekeeping friend > of mine in nearby Port Elizabeth uses (he has 300 hives of this type) > is to submerge pine (cheap pithy wood) in creosote and then leave the > boxes stacked up against a wall in the sun for six months to air. >........ Creosote is totally banned here (Norway) for any use whatsoever as it is claimed to be carcinogenic! Cheers Tony --------------------------------------------------------------------- Anthony N Morgan, Forsteammanuensis Institutt for Elektroteknikk Hogskolen i Sor-Trondelag N-7005 Trondheim, Norway anthony@iet.hist.no Tlf. 73 55 96 04 Fax. 73 55 95 81 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 15:14:53 -0500 Reply-To: burro@panama.gulf.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: burro@PANAMA.GULF.NET Subject: Bee List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We are no longer getting Best of Bee Digest. Since we did not unsubscribe, what happened. Thanks. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 07:57:17 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Gauthier Buddy J Subject: Brazil Experience MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hello to all, Last week, I had the opportunity to go to Brazil (200 km NW of Sao Paulo). I was there on business and it was my first time out of the country. I didn't have time to explore or ask a lot of questions because of the language barrier. Anyway, I had two experiences related to honey and comb. We went to a gas station and while waiting for the car to be filled up and washed, the owner wanted to show us something. He pulled out a bottle which everyone, except me, thought it was beer. I hurried up and spoke up, letting all know it was honey. The owner smiled and acknowledged me. I told him that I had a hive and was still learning. The next day, I was eating breakfast at the hotel when the owner of the hotel walked in with a silver platter. She called us over to see what she had. Once again, no one but me recognized what she had. It was a slab of honeycomb. It was the darkest honey I've ever seen. While eating it, I couldn't help to notice how intense the sweetness was. The wax was dark as chocolate. Question? What causes the wax to be so dark? Is it the honey? The environment? Buddy Gauthier Computer Systems Analyst Cameco Industries, Inc. Thibodaux, LA 70301 Phone: (504)448-0339 Fax: (504)435-4704 Email: T802273@deere.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 09:53:35 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: GENETICALLY MODIFIED CROPS (from kim@airoot.com) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT This message was originally submitted by kim@AIROOT.COM to the BEE-L list at CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU. It was edited to remove HTML formatting. In a recent post, Chris Slade asks about genetically modified plants, and the role they may, or may not play in producing honey harmful to bees, or to people. Genetically modified crops will, in all probability, be the norm in the not too distant future. Bee Culture magazine discussed the ramifications, and looked at some specific crops in articles during the past few months. Most recently canola grown in Canada, in an article written by Kenn Tuckey. However, there are more informed watch dogs than a small bee magazine, and you can find them at the following web page... isb@gophisb.biochem.vt.edu If you are interested, they send an electronic newsletter with updates and recent findings relative to the many areas touched by these crops. Being concerned about this may, or may not be an important part of beekeeping the future, but keeping one's head in the sand will certainly be harmful. Kim Flottum Editor, Bee Culture Magazine 1-800-289-7668 x3214 http://www.airoot.com/beeculture/index.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 07:43:45 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Subject: Alive and Well and Living in Alberta MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Aaron and friends, Apologies for lying low these last weeks. I am indeed alive and well and happy, albeit a bit tired and a little sore in the lower back. I didn't mean to get you worried, and I appreciate the call from Aaron on my answering machine last night. Sorry to have missed him, but anyhow it jogged me to get back to the keyboard and bring everyone up to date. As you all may remember, we signed a sizeable pollination contract this past spring and made a considerable expansion up to just short of 3,000 hives. These two projects have taken all my energy -- and then some. I don't have a life these days. I haven't been windsurfing and I haven't been flying, and I haven't dared get involved in BEE-L or Best of Bee or maintain my website. I haven't taken weekends (with a few exceptions) and I've put in more than a few 26 hour shifts behind the wheel of a truck and forklift and pushing a hive tool. All in all, pollination has been the hardest thing I've ever tackled and we did a great job. Our customers -- as far as I have heard -- were delighted with our bees and deliveries. It wasn't without cost though, we blew engines, broke driveshafts got stuck to the hubs, had flat tires, bent axles and got dirty and tired. I had the flu during the main delivery effort. At one point our entire staff quit. There are tales to tell, I guess I could have written a few things, but I was afraid that once I began writing, I would not stop. My inboxes contain several thousand messages. Not all are personal by any means, but there are enough to keep me busy for days. I'm coming back to normal now, and have a air ticket to Vancouver to visit friends and family this weekend. I'm screwing up my courage to open my inboxes and start digging as soon as all the honey is pulled and the Apistan all in. I appreciate your concern and realize it would have taken only a few lines to keep my friends form worrying. as I write this I am being paged for a meeting and must run. My best regards to you all. I'll try to write more soon. Allen ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 11:16:56 -0400 Reply-To: beesbest@mediaone.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Kathy Organization: Red Maple Farm Subject: Re: Comb Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Victoria McDonough wondered about the possible dangers of eating comb honey because the wax absorbs environmental pollutants: Hi Vickie, The shortest answer, without getting into all of the other environmental hazards that we face daily, is that we do not/cannot digest the wax in our bodies. It passes through our systems as roughage and I therefore believe it to be safe. Kathy ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 15:48:24 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Hutton Organization: ZbeeNet computer networking for beekeepers Subject: Foundation or not to Foundation CHRS: IBMPC 2 CODEPAGE: 437 MSGID: 240:244/116 45eec59b REPLY: 240:44/0 70445533 PID: FDAPX/w 1.12a UnReg(424) Hi Bob, I wire all my frames, deep brood frames I divide into four equal spaces and punch holes throught the side bar centres, the punch sets a brassed eyelet into teh wood. I pull a stainless steel wire through the eyelets and tye it off around a gimp pin set into teh edge of the frame side, I then proceed to strain the wire using small pliers at each eyelet until I reach the reel end of the wire where I tye it off around another gimp pin. (about five revolutions not a knot) I knock the gimps pins in with a hammer. I then crimp the wire with a pair of rotating cogs.Next I set the foundation into the frame and pass a 50 or 25 volt ac current through the wire momentarily, yes the wire expands but contracts almost immediately becoming once again tensioned, the timing is a skill you will soon learn, if you dont you will have three pieces of wax laying on the floor each time you electrify the wire. I bought all the bits, punch, eyelets, wire and crimper in Germany for about twenty quid some time back. a twelve volt dc charger will do as will a car battery. Best of luck. peter.hutton@btinternet.com from the garden of England (Kent) --- * Origin: Kent Beekeeper Beenet Point (240:244/116) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 12:32:01 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tim Sterrett Subject: NYTimes: All the News That Fits MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey, I can't be the fastest reader on this newsgroup! Did anyone else see, in Wednesday's NY Times( Page B6), the nice, large photo of New Jersey beekeeper Bob Hughes and his bee hives? The caption mentions both kinds of mites. This is a bit of positive coverage of bees and beekeeping. Tim -- Tim Sterrett sterrett@voicenet.com (southeastern) Pennsylvania, USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 14:37:46 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Gordon Albright Subject: Re: Brazil Experience Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Buddy: Unless there are local factors to take into consideration, the only cause of brown comb I know of is that caused by brood being raised in the comb prior to the honey being stored there. The comb would also have a toughness not found in comb which has never had brood. Which I think is due to the remnant larval casings. Brood comb which has been in a hive more than 3 or 4 years has a dark brown color. I don't mean to gross you out, but it is my best guess. Best Regards, Gordon ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 17:50:15 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Williams Subject: wasp MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I recently had a number of wasp in the area of my hives, and I have = already deleted the papers on how to eliminate wasp. I am looking for a = home-made remedy. HELP! Thanks, Dave ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 14:08:00 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Gauthier Buddy J Subject: Re: Brazil Experience MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Thanks Gordon for the response, Being a Cajun, it takes a lot more to gross me out than that. The rule down here is, Eat it first before it eats you. Seriously, Ana Merlo, a beekeeper in Brazil said it also could have been 2 other things; Eucalyptus or Sugar Cane. I'm not familiar with eucalyptus at all, so I can not comment. However, I live in the middle of sugar cane country and I thought that was interesting. Sugar cane products are high in iron and this could explain the dark honey and whether or not that makes the wax dark, I don't know. But your explanation takes care of the wax color. Buddy Gauthier Computer Systems Analyst Cameco Industries, Inc. Thibodaux, LA 70301 Phone: (504)448-0339 Fax: (504)435-4704 Email: T802273@deere.com -----Original Message----- From: Gordon Albright [SMTP:GAbrite65@AOL.COM] Sent: Thursday, September 24, 1998 1:38 PM To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Subject: Re: Brazil Experience Buddy: Unless there are local factors to take into consideration, the only cause of brown comb I know of is that caused by brood being raised in the comb prior to the honey being stored there. The comb would also have a toughness not found in comb which has never had brood. Which I think is due to the remnant larval casings. Brood comb which has been in a hive more than 3 or 4 years has a dark brown color. I don't mean to gross you out, but it is my best guess. Best Regards, Gordon ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 21:16:48 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Harry Goudie Subject: Re: Protection for bees - but which ones? Comments: To: mpym@hive.netkonect.co.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Harry Goudie, Lochluichart, Scotland. Knitwear Page: http://freespace.virgin.net/luichart.woollens/ -----Original Message----- From: Madeleine Pym To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Date: 22 September 1998 12:05 Subject: Protection for bees - but which ones? > >3. BEEKEEPERS BEES WILL BRING IN VARROA - they believe they can >protect the feral colonies from varroa by keeping out beekeepers. > >I would like to know who on earth is advising them on these matters. > Hi Madeleine, I think he (or she) is quite correct. Beekeepers do being in varroa and it is nice to see that someone who is not a beekeeper is aware of this problem. In this age of varroa I think you have to think very carefully about moving bees especially into areas where varroa may not be present. Not so much in this case because of the risk of infection but because of the reaction of the local beekeepers. An angry bee is nothing compared with an angry human and perhaps landowners are becoming more concerned about this. . The implications are extremely worrisome because as far as I >understand, EN are in conrol of more or less all the 'wild' areas left >in Britain. Which would mean that beekeepers would not have access to >these areas. Only gardens or farmland. It brings up a number of ethical >questions too, to do with man's rights, responsibilities, and >considerations in respect of 'nature' and in his relationship to bees to >name but few. Surely the landowner has the right to say whether beekeeping is allowed on his land or not whether this be an individual or land held in trust for the Nation. You have to respect their wishes. It is interesting that beekeeping is almost unique in that it is one of the few farming activities which do not require you to own any land! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 18:38:43 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ben M Poehlman Subject: Just Curious Thursday-- September 24th., 1998 About 7:00 pm (Lincoln, Nebraska time) Hey, everyone!! This is my first posting to the BEE-L list. I have a question out of pure curiosity: Does anybody know how many people have been attacked by killer bees? Thanks, Ben M. Poehlman (TempBenP@JUNO.COM) Lincoln, Nebraska (USA) ---Note: I own a free, clean humor e-mail list. If you are not already a member, and would like to join, send an e-mail to JOKE-LIST@JUNO.COM--- -end of message- ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 20:15:13 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Ralph W. Harrison" Subject: Furniture Polish Tins Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Greetings All, Could someone out there direct me to a source of shoe polish type tins (in the U.S.) that I could use for beeswax furniture polish. I am looking for the 4 ounce tins. I know that Brushy Mountain sells the small 3 ounce tins but I am looking for something larger. I purchased some 4 ounce tins in England this summer from Thorne's of Windsor and they were very well received at a fair that I did this past weekend (sold out of them the first day). Thanks, Ralph Harrison Western CT Beekeepers Association Milford, Connecticut USA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 12:24:30 +0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Olenka Kovalchuk Subject: cooperation Comments: cc: Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 12:19:37 +0300 >To: interlink@-net.com.br >From: Olenka Kovalchuk >Subject: >Cc: Thorne@dial.pipex.com >Bcc: APIMONDIA@MCLINK.IT >X-Attachments: > >Dear sirs! > >We offer you cooperation with bee-keepers of Ukraine. We offer the following: >- high quality bee honey from different regions of Ukraine (ecologically >pure) - of different kindes - sunflower, acacia, buckwheat, wild flowers >etc. >- bee wax >- propolis >- bee pollen and other apiatric production >We can provide beehives of different constructions and of high quality on >compatible prices. We are ready to negotiate your conditions of >cooperation: joint ventures, representatives associates etc. >We would like to buy or lease 25-30 frame centrifugal machine, bee packing >machinery. >You can mail your information on the following address: >Mr. Volodymyr Horishnyk >212 Horodocka str., 32 >Lviv, 290022, Ukraine >Phone/Fax (+ 380322)621062 (Unfortunately we don't speak English) >With best Regards, >Volodymyr Horishnyk, bee-keeper > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 07:48:07 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: communication on paraffin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT This message was originally submitted by lindena@SOVER.NET to the BEE-L list at CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU. This message has been edited. Hartman Canon asks: > Where does one acquire a 220 lb chunk of paraffin? Walnut Hill Enterprises Bristol, PA 19007-0599 800-633-3929 Or an oil company in your area. Ask for 130 > What size screws are you using for the corners? I too use Elmers here > to firm them up. I am trying a few cypress this year. It is said that > NO treatment of any kind is required for them. I use waterproof glue and 2=94 deckscrews. Predrill corners with counter sink. Use paraffin on cypress to prevent warping and checking. You may need to replace a top or bottom edge now and then due to bees knawing. That's when you should re-treat. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 08:17:06 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: Re: communication on paraffin Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/25/98 7:49:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time, SYSAM@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU writes: > > > What size screws are you using for the corners? I too use Elmers here > > to firm them up. I am trying a few cypress this year. It is said that > > NO treatment of any kind is required for them. > Cypress heartwood maybe- and you will know heartwood by the weight and oily feel. The sap wood is about one step better than pine. But cypress holds paint very well. If you make your own save the rippings to use in letting in repairs to damaged supers. Tom in CT ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 14:57:06 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: Comb honey/pollution Hi All As regards the questions about comb honey and the possibility that it may concentrate contaminants and pollutants: George, I dissagree with your strong views on the subject. Everything can be viewed as a threat or not. The fact that beeswax is 'untouched by human hands' has little relevance. Most poisons are not either - they are made by machines we employ, just like the bees to do jobs we cannot. Wax is a largely non-water soluble mixture of compounds. As such it is an excellent solvent for things with similar traits that may end up in honey by accident. These would include DDT, fluvalinate, many other organophos poisons and some really horrible environmental contaminants. It is up to us to recognize that these pose a threat and to look at ways of reducing the threat - eg stimulating wax production periodically with sugar so as to prevent pools of super wax from stagnating. Channelling some wax out of the bee industry into other uses, like candle making (eg wax from brood areas treat with miticides) and using capping wax for foundation. Conducting random tests on super wax and so on. In the long run accepting the possibility that there may be a problem is a good strategy. Fixing the problem before it becomes a disaster is an excellent one. Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis Eastern Cape Prov. South Africa Time = Honey After careful consideration, I have decided that if I am ever a V.I.P the I. may not stand for important. (rather influential, ignorant, idiotic, intelectual, illadvised etc) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 07:33:46 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Subject: Bee Ads Page Works Again MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT To those who have mentioned a java script problem on the Bee Ads page: It should now be working properly. Allen -- Buy, sell, trade, get a job, hire help, announce a meeting, advertise a business or publication... For free *beekeeping related* classified ads, visit http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/BeeAds/ often. These ads work fast! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 11:10:24 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tim Sterrett Subject: Re: wiring and foundation Comments: To: BobCan@TDPI.Com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob asked about wiring frames and embedding foundation. ***************** How tight do I make the wires? ****************** Tight. But there are tricks for doing this. As you get ready to fasten the running end of the wire onto a side of the frame, you can squeeze the horizontal wires together, flexing them as you put tension on the running end of the wire. If you do this correctly, the sides of the frame will bow in slightly. Then wrap the running wire around a nail you have already started into the side of the frame, finish nailing in the nail, and cut the wire. These nails can be nailed into the wide dimension of the side of the frame so that they are anchored by an inch of wood not just a quarter inch of wood. The wire can be tight enough that you get a musical note when a string is plucked. You can also (after the wire is fastened at both ends) use long-nosed pliers to hold a tack and use it to pluck the wire where it runs between holes on the outside of the frame side and then nail in the tack to tension the wire even more. Now having said all that, suppose you were to ask _why_ the wire has to be so tight. Good question. The wire holds the foundation flat until the bees have drawn out the comb and then helps give it strength if the fram is whirled in an extractor. It doesn't have to be all that tight. ******************** Do I weave the wires on both sides of the foundation or just on one side? ******************* Ordinarily, you would be wiring frames before foundation was installed and then the foundation would be laid onto the wires, fastened at the top, then the frame would be flipped over to put the wires on the up side of the wax. and the wires would be embedded. Weaving is not necessary. ***************** Is it ok if I have made a very small hole after using my wire embedder? **************** Yes. **************** How deep do I embed? ***************** Embed deeply enough that the wax doesn't warp away from the wires before the bees have drawn it out. If wax never warped as the temperature changed, you wouldn't have to embed very much. Now another question: Are you going to install bees this autumn? I do not put the wax in the frames until just before it will be used by the bees. Storing frames with foundation, even wired, gives the foundation more chance to warp. Wiring frames is a drag: hard on the hands. But working with foundation is pleasure: a sweet smell! Tim -- Tim Sterrett sterrett@voicenet.com (southeastern) Pennsylvania, USA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 16:31:39 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jeff Dugan Subject: Re: Foul Odors MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've been reading the many posts about the smell of goldenrod or aster nectar, and sure enough, as the goldenrod started coming in I noticed a foul, body-odor type smell as I worked my one hive. Last week I washed my bee suit for the first time since May, and what do you know? No more foul odors! Disclaimer: I do not mean to disparage the hygiene of those who have reported foul-smelling hives. In fact, aster is just beginning to come in here in NE Tennessee, so I'm anticipating that my hive will stink soon, too. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 15:17:38 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Roy D. Brant moves to better pastures. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Long time beekeeper laid to rest 9.25.98. My friend Roy D. Brant, 85, passed on 9.22.98. Will be remembered by his family and many beekeepers in the US as he was an active member of local, state, and national bee associations as well as a long time member of Sioux Bee Honey Co-Op. Roy was a good father and bee breeder and is survived by his wife and children plus brothers and sisters from the Dakota's. Roy has always been ageless to me, I first met him maybe 40 years ago and his interest in beekeeping was infectious to all beekeepers who knew him. We were not close friends but I can't think of many beekeeper meeting at the local, state or national level that he was not there and always willing to talk with, help and work with other beekeepers to find common solutions to everyday problems. We all will miss him. Andy Nachbaur Los Banos, California http://beenet.com/bnews.htm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 21:02:45 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Charles Frederic Andros Subject: Garth asks: Also the napthanate - how much do you find you use?? Comments: To: Garth MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Garth asks: Also the naphthanate - how much do you find you use?? Garth, A quick dip in copper naphthanate after assembly ought to do it. Let d= ry a day or two depending on conditions. What=92s great is your wood won=92t warp or split if dry when you paraff= in it! 250=B0F.=3D121=B0C. If you don=92t have a thermometer, a stick of wood i= nserted should immediately begin to bubble as air and moisture expand from the wo= od pores. I use a telescoping cover wedged in above the super or other equipment to hold it under the surface Wood is sterilized and won=92t dry rot either. Upon removal hot from ba= rrel or vat, paraffin is sucked into the pores of the wood. Some surface weathering does occur. Do not do a fast dip, as a slippery surface cause= s supers to slide! Only hot wood sucks the paraffin in fully. Hot paraffin also cleans excluders in a hurry, and turns propolis to a crisp, which brushes or scrapes off quickly. Propolis sinks to the botto= m of the vat and leaves a telltale stain which lets you know what has been treated, as will running your nail over the surface, raising a bit of paraffin. I treat everything wooden but the frames. Charles F. Andros Former NH/VT Apiary Inspector '78-=9289 Linden Apiaries 1 McLean Road POB 165 Walpole, NH 03608-0165 USA/EUA 603-756-9056 phone/fax if notified by phone email: lindena@sover.net Residence: Latitude: 43=B0 05=92 North, Longitude: 72=B0 21=92 15" West Keeper of 41 two-queen colonies for honey, pollen, propolis, pollination, nuclei, beeswax, apitherapy, and education. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 08:46:48 -0500 Reply-To: dougdavis@itexas.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Douglas Davis Organization: Gig - Em Aggies Subject: Help with Wax Worm Infestation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I started 2 new hives this spring in central Texas. The weather conspired to prevent the hives from becoming strong and building up any surplus honey. In short ... I would describe them as "weak". A few weeks ago, I noticed evidence of worm infestation and dissassembled the hives. Both had a large number of worms on the brood frames. The bees appeared to have abandoned the frames that were infested. I removed as many worms as I could find. Took out the frames that appeared to be damaged and infested and reassembled the hives. This week I notice that I didn't get all and continue to see damage being done by the worms. My question is .... what shoudl I do? Will the hives survive? Should I put new frames of foundation in now or wait until spring? Will the worms die out in the winter? Should I start the hives over from scratch? If so, what is the best method of doing this? Any help would be appreciated. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 10:58:47 -0700 Reply-To: ryarnell@orednet.org Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard Yarnell Subject: Re: Garth asks: Also the napthanate - how much do you find you use?? Garth, and everyone else. If you use this system, and especially if you heat the wax over an open flame, have a tight fitting cover for the barrel in which you're doing the processing. Also have some device with which you can place the cover on an actively burning barrel of hot wax. Welding a long handle on the barrel cover couldn't hurt. IF the was gets to hot and begins to burn, put the cover on the barrel and extinguish the heat source. Don't try to douse the fire in the wax itself. With any luck, you'll never need the cover or the water to use on any nearby material which begins to burn. But much better to be prepared. Oxygen starvation will quickly put out the fire in the wax and keep it out until the wax cools to below its flash point. Water put into the wax will sink and quickly turn to steam with explosive effect. Any foreign substance (eg from a dry chem fire extinguisher) will spoil the wax. If the was has ignited because it's gotten too hot (rather than the vapor above the wax igniting from a stray ember) will flash again as soon as a CO2 or Halide vapor blanket dissipates. Let's be careful out there. > What's great is your wood won't warp or split if dry when you paraffin it! >250F. If you don't have a thermometer, a stick of wood inserted >should immediately begin to bubble as air and moisture expand from the wood >pores.... >Former NH/VT Apiary Inspector '78-=9289 >Linden Apiaries,1 McLean Road, POB 165, Walpole, NH 03608-0165 USA/EUA >email: lindena@sover.net -- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 13:25:39 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Paul Nicholson Subject: Re: Help with Wax Worm Infestation Comments: To: dougdavis@itexas.net In-Reply-To: <199809261405.HAA10711@alto1.altonet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 8:46 -0500 9/26/98, Douglas Davis wrote: >A few weeks ago, I noticed evidence of worm infestation and >dissassembled the hives. [snip] >My question is .... what should I do? Put the infested frames in your freezer for 30 minutes. Paul Paul Nicholson Electronic Imaging Systems, Inc. TEL 805 532 1068 5148 Commerce Avenue, Unit F FAX 805 532 1065 Moorpark, CA 93021 U.S.A. paul@eisusa.com http://www.eisusa.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 18:03:01 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ricky Holden Subject: Re: Help with Wax Worm Infestation Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit The wax worm is a byproduct of a weak hive. Usually, the worm, eggs, and moth all must be killed (freezing) in the entire hive. Then there is a chance to recover if you can keep the hive healthy and strong. Keep hive strong and bees will kill the worms. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 16:14:22 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Buck Rut Subject: Hive odor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Greetings fellow beekeepers. I am new to the fascinating world of beekeeping, and Have loved it since I began earlier this year. I have read all the posts about hive odor, and recently, I have noticed a strong vinegar like smell surrounding my hives. The odor is so strong, that it can be noticed up to 100 feet away. Is this due to the goldenrod and aster, or is there something else wrong. I am located in eastern Missouri. Any help that I get would be appreciated. Thanks! Scott Moser _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 18:43:16 -0400 Reply-To: beesbest@mediaone.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Kathy Organization: Red Maple Farm Subject: Re: Help with Wax Worm Infestation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > After Douglas Davis asked: > > >A few weeks ago, I noticed evidence of worm infestation and > >dissassembled the hives. > [snip] > >My question is .... what should I do? Paul Nicholson responded: > Put the infested frames in your freezer for 30 minutes. Actually, depending on how much webbing/cocooning the wax mothes have created, it could take as long as a week (or more) to freeze them completely. We had mothes thoroughly attack some equipment that wasn't in use (& we'd forgotten about). After 5 days in the freezer there were still live wiggling worms in the middle frames. Kathy ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 18:34:54 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Norman CotÊ" Subject: Re: Help with Wax Worm Infestation Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit When you freeze the frames they must be frozen for at least 48 hours to kill all the wax moth, larva, and eggs. Norm in Connecticut Wax moths take over when you have a weak hive, otherwise the bees keep them under control. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 19:20:21 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Brett D Bannon Subject: Chokecherry Jelly Looking for a recipe that uses honey to make Jelly. We are very fond of our Rocky Mountain Chokecherries and would love to use our own honey instead of pure sugar. I suppose the ratios of honey and sugar in other jelly recipes would work?? Brett D. Bannon Folsom, NM USA bbannon@juno.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 19:58:09 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tim Sterrett Subject: Re: Hive odor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Scott wrote: I have noticed a strong vinegar like smell surrounding my hives. The odor is so strong, that it can be noticed up to 100 feet away. ********************* We ought to collect a list of descriptions of this smell. My wife says the odor wafting from the hives smells like old sneakers. Tim -- Tim Sterrett sterrett@voicenet.com (southeastern) Pennsylvania, USA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 12:36:12 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Dalby Subject: cooking with honey Comments: To: bbannon@juno.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi there, The only real way to get a cherry jam or jelly to set is to add a pectin to the mixture especially if you are using honey. Choose a recipe which uses either liquid or powdered pectin as this helps the jam or jelly to set (some recipes use agar-agar) and then you will have to adjust the water content to replace sugar with honey. It is quite complicated and a matter of trial and error. I have played about with a number of recipes but am not familiar with your type of cherries. I will have a look and see if I have a more specific recipe but roughly if you replace the sugar with three-quarters the amount of honey that is reduce the quantity by a quarter and reduce the liquid content by a fifth it should work. Also I have now looked in a copy of 'Putting it up with Honey' by Susan Geiskopf on page 50 there is a recipe for Blackberry Jam with suggestions that you may also use chokecherries instead. If you need further information on this please contact me direct. Barbara Dalby, author of many honey cookery articles. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 13:00:50 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Dalby Subject: Wax Moth infestation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There has been many communications regarding wax moth infestation and certainly freezing will work but the frames/boxes do need to be left for at least a week to kill the larvae. The other method would be to use a product containing bacillus thuringiensis a natural method for killing the larvae. The product that is available in England is called Certan and manufactured by Swarm S.A., it is a liquid which you dilute with water in a hand sprayer and spray both sides of all frames with this liquid. When the wax moth worms ingest the wax coated with the spray the bacillus gets to work in their gut and kills them off. The bacteria is specific to lepidopterans (moths and butterflies caterpillars) and does not harm the bees when they use the frames at a later stage. It needs to be re-applied each year in view of its natural properties as there are no chemical residues. It certainly works over here and stops further damage to the frames. Hope this is of some help. Peter Dalby, Chairman BBKA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 10:12:54 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BILL HUGHES JR Subject: Re: Help with Wax Worm Infestation Comments: To: dougdavis@itexas.net Leave boxes open to the air and light for a few days. This will kill the worms. Bill Hughes Bent Holly Honey Farm ____ Bill Hughes Bent Holly Honey Farm Brighton, Tennessee USA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 08:23:01 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Paul Nicholson Subject: Re: Wax Moth infestation In-Reply-To: <199809271247.FAA07953@alto1.altonet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 13:00 +0100 9/27/98, Peter Dalby wrote: >There has been many communications regarding wax moth infestation and >certainly freezing will work but the frames/boxes do need to be left for at >least a week to kill the larvae. I took the frames out and placed each one in the freezer for 30 minutes ore more. After this, the larvae were frozen solid and when they thawed out they did not move. Once they freeze, they are dead. I don't know if the eggs have an ability to resist cold damage better, but I've got six very infested frames sitting on my kitchen table that were frozen 4 days ago and there is no new larvae. >The other method would be to use a product containing bacillus thuringiensis >a natural method for killing the larvae. The product that is available in >England is called Certan and manufactured by Swarm S.A., it is a liquid >which you dilute with water in a hand sprayer and spray both sides of all >frames with this liquid. When the wax moth worms ingest the wax coated with >the spray the bacillus gets to work in their gut and kills them off. The >bacteria is specific to lepidopterans (moths and butterflies caterpillars) >and does not harm the bees when they use the frames at a later stage. It >needs to be re-applied each year in view of its natural properties as there >are no chemical residues. You can get BT powder in the US at garden supply stores. The powder is mixed with water to from a sprayable solution. I've used it in the garden for asparagus worms. For that application it works very well. It is completely safe for human consumption. As long as it has no harmful effect on the bees, I would not hesitate to use it on wax moth. >It certainly works over here and stops further damage to the frames. > >Hope this is of some help. > >Peter Dalby, Chairman BBKA Thanks for the great suggestion! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 11:01:00 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Charles Frederic Andros Subject: Re: Richard Yarnell: paraffin Comments: To: ryarnell@orednet.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Richard Yarnell, I=92ve found the only time I have trouble is when I put in material with = a lot of moisture, such as masonite inner covers. I use the cover while heating, and have a good fire. When I start to put in material for waxin= g, I use just a small fire, to maintain the 250 F./121 C. temp. Usually one log will do it. Once when I put in inner covers the steam raised the wax level perilously close to the top. I removed the inner covers and let the wax cool a bit = and put in less masonite. It=92s a good idea to keep the hose handy to cool = the fire or barrel exterior, but never allow water inside the barrel! Light rain is not a problem, but heavy rain is. A cover that would hold down material would be a good idea. Of course th= e problem is different sizes of material, so I don=92t use a cover over the barrel. Bottom boards are the longest pieces I put in the barrel, with t= he exception of the occasional post or garden tool. I maintain the wax dept= h accordingly. The paraffin is a good rust-proofer, too! I use leather mitts,a mist breather mask, and a stick with a nail driven through the end to pull material from the barrel. Charles F. Andros NH/VT Apiary Inspector '78-=9289 Linden Apiaries 1 McLean Road POB 165 Walpole, NH 03608-0165 USA/EUA 603-756-9056 phone/fax if notified by phone email: lindena@sover.net Residence: Latitude: 43=B0 05=92 North, Longitude: 72=B0 21=92 15" West Keeper of 41 two-queen colonies for honey, pollen, propolis, pollination, nuclei, beeswax, apitherapy, and education. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 16:05:59 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andrew & Tiffany Dubas Subject: PARA MOTH Comments: To: Beekeeper MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is there anything besides PARA MOTH that I can buy locally at a hardware store ? cause it is getting expensive with the haz mat charge ? thank you. Andrew ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 16:07:21 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Dr. Gerald L Barbor" Subject: Re: Wax Moth infestation There are a number of specific strains of BT and only the one designed for wax worm larvae will work. I have an article given me by our state bee inspector that I can dig out if more specifics are required. Jerry in PA ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 22:13:07 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Steven Albritton Subject: Re: PARA MOTH In-Reply-To: <199809272132.QAA17404@mailbox.iamerica.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Moth Crystals at Wal-Mart is the same thing. Steven Albritton Intermedia Communications, Sports America, Chauvin Honey Farms ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 19:14:31 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Paul Nicholson Subject: Re: Wax Moth infestation In-Reply-To: <199809272136.OAA18110@alto1.altonet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 16:07 -0400 9/27/98, Dr. Gerald L Barbor wrote: >There are a number of specific strains of BT and only the one designed >for wax worm larvae will work. I have an article given me by our state >bee inspector that I can dig out if more specifics are required. Please let us know. Do you know where to get the strain for bees. I have not seen it in bee supply catalogs. What are the problem with using the strain found in the home and garden center? Paul ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 05:28:39 -0400 Reply-To: praxis@datawise.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pat McKown Organization: Praxis Subject: Re: Wax Moth infestation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "It is completely safe for human consumption." does the label really say this? p ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 05:31:49 -0400 Reply-To: praxis@datawise.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pat McKown Organization: Praxis Subject: Re: Wax Moth infestation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jerry What strain would that be? p ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 12:36:00 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jones Subject: Evodia pruning-How? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I managed to germinate one evodia seed last year. This year the sapling has grown to four feet. My question is what type of shape do I want for the evodia tree? Do I want one central leader, allowing only horizontal-type branches from this central leader? I ask this question because this sapling has developed a couple of diagonal type branches. I've always been told to avoid this kind of growth in a tree because it leads to a weak crotch that can break. Any ideas? Thanks. Steve Jones l ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 07:47:29 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Death to wax moths! How cold, how long and strain of BT? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Freezing will kill wax moths, all stages (eggs, larvae, pupae and adults). The question of how long to freeze depends on how cold is your freezer. From _Honey_Bee_Pests,_Predators,_and_Diseases_ (Morse and Nowogrodzki): "... minimum treatments are required to kill all stages of the greater wax moth: -7 dC (20 dF) for 4.5 hours, -12 dC (10 dF) for 3 hours, or -15 dC (5 dF) for 2 hours ... (Bulky materials - containers of bee-collected pollen, combs containing honey, and so on - may require considerably longer exposure times to reach killing temperatures.)" Regarding the strain of BT, it is correct that there are many different strains of BT and you must use the strain that specifically targets the pest in question. BT for Colorado Potato Beetle is not the same as BT for asparagus or BT for cabbage. I was surprised that ..._Pests,_ Predators,_and_Diseases_ did not list a specific strain of BT. It is my understanding (which may be flawed, we all know that by now) that the product Certan (which contains the proper strain of BT to kill wax moth larvae) is no longer offered in the states. I do not know the reason why Certan is no longer marketed, perhaps Andy can provide the reason. Aaron Morris - thinking there are times when you can't beat a good book! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 08:37:01 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: Re: PARA MOTH Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/27/98 10:14:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time, salbritt@IAMERICA.NET wri > Moth Crystals at Wal-Mart is the same thing. > Bee very careful- both para and non para moth crystals are in blue cans at the wally mart, and in the ones I have seen on the same shelf. Make sure the can says 99% para ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 08:37:17 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Canon, Hartman" Subject: CERTAN MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Some more info aboiut CERTAN (but not enough) is at http://hammock.ifas.ufl.edu/txt/fairs/15156 . HBCanon Geneva, FL ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 08:43:05 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: Re: CERTAN Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Last I looked the Thorne rep in Canada had Certan Bewworks Muskoka Dunno if they can ship it here laws being as strange as they are. Tom in CT ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 08:45:49 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Keeler, Lisa" Subject: Re: PARA MOTH Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Around here the brand name for para crystals is ENOZ this is sold at Walmartonly and no other harware store seems to carry para crystals Lisa Zionsville, IN >---------- >From: Andrew & Tiffany Dubas[SMTP:dubees@ENTER.NET] >Sent: Sunday, September 27, 1998 6:05 PM >To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU >Subject: PARA MOTH > >Is there anything besides PARA MOTH that I can buy locally at a hardware >store ? cause it is getting expensive with the haz mat charge ? thank you. > >Andrew > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 09:43:27 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Evodia Steve asks My question is what type of shape do I want for the evodia tree? Do I want one central leader, allowing only horizontal-type branches from this central leader? All the Evodia that I have seen have a reasonably long trunk without branches (8-10 feet) and then good horizontal branching. I suspect, but do not know, that the lower branches die off as the tree gains height and the lower branches become shaded. Ash has the same tendency. As you say, the general rule is to avoid diagonals. With a fast growing tree like this, my suggestion is to leave the diagonals for now to give the tree the benefit of added leaf coverage during 1999. Next winter (1999-2000) you might want to cut the lower diagonals off. If you live in an area where you are concerned about ice or snow damage splitting the diagonals, put a stake in to support the main truck, and tie up the diagonals to the main truck and the stake. Good luck, Lloyd LloydSpear@email.msn.com Owner, Ross Rounds the finest in comb honey production. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 12:26:18 -0400 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: Hive odor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Scott Moser wrote: > Greetings fellow beekeepers. > I am new to the fascinating world of beekeeping, and Have loved it > since I began earlier this year. I have read all the posts about hive > odor, and recently, I have noticed a strong vinegar like smell > surrounding my hives. The odor is so strong, that it can be noticed > up to 100 feet away. Is this due to the goldenrod and aster, or is > there something else wrong. I am located in eastern Missouri. Any > help that I get would be appreciated. Thanks! I don't think I would exactly describe it as "vinegar", but yes, at this time of the year if you can smell the hive a long way off, I'd definitely say it was goldenrod/aster. Leave it alone, it will turn out just fine after ripening. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 12:37:27 -0400 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: Help with Wax Worm Infestation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ricky Holden wrote: > The wax worm is a byproduct of a weak hive. Usually, the worm, eggs, and > moth all must be killed (freezing) in the entire hive. Then there is a chance > to recover if you can keep the hive healthy and strong. Keep hive strong and > bees will kill the worms. This is very true, and the corollary is that a hive weakened by disease (especially AFB) or parasitized heavily by varroa mites is almost sure to pick up wax moths. So check the hives for disease or varroa if you see moths. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 11:36:07 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Paul Nicholson Subject: Re: Wax Moth infestation Comments: To: praxis@datawise.net In-Reply-To: <199809281144.EAA05691@alto1.altonet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 5:28 -0400 9/28/98, Pat McKown wrote: >"It is >completely safe for human consumption." Apparently that is not the case. It can cause some relatively minor problems like bacterial gastroenteritus. see http://hammock.ifas.ufl.edu/txt/fairs/52835 >does the label really say this? > >p Paul Nicholson Electronic Imaging Systems, Inc. TEL 805 532 1068 5148 Commerce Avenue, Unit F FAX 805 532 1065 Moorpark, CA 93021 U.S.A. paul@eisusa.com http://www.eisusa.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 15:39:10 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Faith Andrews Bedford Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 22 Sep 1998 to 23 Sep 1998 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi all - I'm just back from Africa and was fascinated by the smoky taste of African honey. I figured that perhaps the extracting method was to crush the comb, boil it in an open kettle over a wood fire and that, in the process, the wood smoke was incorporated into the honey (we used to do our maple syrup this way and the syrup always tasted a bit smokey too). Then again, perhaps the flowers from which the bees gather have a smokey essence. Any African beekeepers out there who could tell me what this is all about. To those of you who helped put me in touch with a native beekeeper near Bukavu Congo, thanks. However, my daughter, Eleanor who is with USAID, was evacuated from the Congo due to the revolution there and I, alas, had to cut that leg off my trip. Had a great time, though, Africa is beautiful and the bombing in Kenya only made the place safer. Nairobi is crawling with policemen now!! All best, Faith Andrews Bedford, Tampa and Ivy, VA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 15:39:09 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Faith Andrews Bedford Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 26 Sep 1998 to 27 Sep 1998 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/28/98 12:02:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time, LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU writes: << Scott wrote: I have noticed a strong vinegar like smell surrounding my hives. The odor is so strong, that it can be noticed up to 100 feet away. ********************* We ought to collect a list of descriptions of this smell. My wife says the odor wafting from the hives smells like old sneakers. >> The vinegar smell sounds like fermentation to me. Faith Andrews Bedford ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 12:05:51 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Roy Nettlebeck Subject: List if Honey Buyers wanted. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hello All, I have a request for a list of Honey buyers in the USA form some beekeepers here in Washington State.They are interested in selling there good USA honey at a real fair price.Not the prices that the 3 or 4 big packers are offering.We just had a ship from China unload thousands of TONS of cheap honey.Now the pain has been felt by many small beekeepers 100 to 500 hives.If anyone has a list of buyers or any ideas, Please E-mail me direct.These familys need a chance to make a living and it will not happen at $ .62 per pound. Thank you very much. Best regards Roy Nettlebeck ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 15:07:04 -0700 Reply-To: GSTYER@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: George Styer Subject: 2 queen mystery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I posted this inquiry on the newsgroup but have not had any response so I'll try here. Weekend before last I put on the escape boards. One hive never moved down out of the supers. A possible explaination would be the presence of brood but having a queen excluder in place since late spring I didn't see how this is possible. The excluder was put in place after i had brood in my cut-comb super. Subsequent examinations revealed that the brood had hatched and the cells full of capped honey. Blew the bees out of the supers this weekend and I just happen to spot an UNMARKED queen walking across the topbars. So now I look at the frames of what used to be 100% sealed honey and there is brood of all stages on 2 of the frames. Huh? A quick look into the deeps below the QX reveales that the MARKED queen is indeed still there and laying. So how do I end up with 2 laying queens, one on each side of the QX? I can not offer up an explaination of how a laying queen could end up above the excluder since there could not have been any eggs up there from which to raise a queen. Is it possible that this queen hatched below (possibly a supercedure), mated and then squeezed her skinny butt through the QX to live happily ever after up in the honey supers? If so, why wouldn't she have destroyed he old MARKED queen? I hope I have provided all of the necessary parts of this biological puzzle. Geo. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 19:30:55 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: poplar for supers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi All: I need to make another 500 deep supers and I am having some difficulty locating spruce logs big enough at the price I am used to ($100 per cord). Right now spruce logs big enough to saw 16 foot two by tens are fetching $150 per cord, so I am competing with that market. On my own land I do not have a lot of big spruce (that is accessible at any rate), but I do have lots of big poplar. Does anyone have experience using poplar for supers? I imagine some people in the Prairies must have tried. I use rabbet jointed corners, not finger laps, and dip with a mix of linseed oil, varsol, and copper naphthenate (one percent copper in the dip for boxes). The lumber I have been using has always been seven eighths thickness (my apologies to metric bee-l members: Canada is supposedly metric, but lumber is one thing that never changed over). My past experience with poplar boards is that they have to be fastened still green before they warp. I expect that they would dry straight once in a box, but I would sure appreciate the advice of someone who has tried it before I make 500 possibly garbage boxes. Regards, Stan