========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 02:38:27 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Paul S LeRoy Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 26 Sep 1998 to 27 Sep 1998 In-Reply-To: <01J2CJQJISH69AN3AJ@InfoAve.Net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I dont know where you are located but if any where near southern part of the U S you should imediately check your hive for African black beetle infestation. Dont know much about the beetles yet but one main symtom is fermentation due to beetles opening up capped honey.At 03:39 PM 9/28/98 -0400, you wrote: >In a message dated 9/28/98 12:02:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU writes: > ><< Scott wrote: > I have noticed a strong vinegar like smell surrounding my hives. The > odor is so strong, that it can be noticed up to 100 feet away. > ********************* > We ought to collect a list of descriptions of this smell. > My wife says the odor wafting from the hives smells like old > sneakers. > >> > >The vinegar smell sounds like fermentation to me. Faith Andrews Bedford > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 20:08:20 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Wax Moth infestation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit At 16:07 -0400 9/27/98, Dr. Gerald L Barbor wrote: +AD4APg-There are a number of specific strains of BT and only the one designed +AD4APg-for wax worm larvae will work. I have an article given me by our state +AD4-Please let us know. Do you know where to get the strain for bees. I have +AD4-not seen it in bee supply catalogs. What are the problem with using the +AD4-strain found in the home and garden center? It has to be fall. Every year about this time Wax Moth questions arise, and we go round and round, discussing the if, buts and ands of the various highly questionable treatments available. So once again for your approval or otherwise, I submit the following:- We can supply 'Certan' a BT treatment against wax moth larvae. As far as I can assertain it is not a banned substance either in Canada or the US, just dealers who don't, can't or won't stock it. It is the ONLY biological treatment against wax moth, our catalog quotes. +ACI-In 120ml plastic bottles, enough for 120 frames. It is the only biological larvaecide available for the control of wax moths. It will not harm you, your bees, your wax or honey. Prepare a spray mixture of one part Certan to nineteen parts of water. Apply approx 10ml of spray mixture to each side of the 'Brood Comb'. Thorough coverage of the frames is essential. Certan can be applied in the fall prior to placing dried combs in storage or in the spring prior to returning the frames to the colony. Price +ACQ-18.76 US. Expensive? Not if you have to replace 12 boxes of drawn brood comb. Is it dangerous to humans? I for one never eat brood comb+ACEAIQ- +ADs--)) Please can we move on? +ACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKg- The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario,Canada. David Eyre. Owner. Phone (705) 326 7171 Fax (705) 325 3461 beeworks+AEA-muskoka.net www.muskoka.net/+AH4-beeworks +ACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACo- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 19:38:22 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Robert A. Roach" Subject: Wax Moth BT Products MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There was a Bacillus thuringiensis product called Certan which was = registered for use in beehives to control wax moths. The company = dropped this product in the U.S. some years ago. It was a good product, = I suppose the economics did not work though. It is the old minor crop = pesticide dilemma, which is also the reason we only have one material = registered for Varroa mite control while in Europe they have at least = several. Bob Roach ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 19:49:39 -0700 Reply-To: rm@objectdata.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert MacKimmie Subject: 2 queen myster(ies) ... Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 4.2mach v148) We just had a harvest festival at the San Francisco Farmer's Market and a few extra bee people were invited. Someone with a travelling observation hive, three or four frames high and the mysteries is that there have been two laying queens in that observation hive since they were at the Apple Festival months ago. They were both going about their business just a frame apart. Is this a new trend in monarchies? The latest social bee fad? Is every hive suppose to have two queens and we have been doing it wrong? Solid proof of the beekeeper's axiom: "The more I know, the less I know." Robert@objectdata.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 23:52:38 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Green Subject: Re: poplar for supers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/28/98 9:12:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time, sandler@AURACOM.COM writes: > I use rabbet jointed corners, not finger laps, and dip with a mix of linseed > oil, varsol, and copper naphthenate (one percent copper in the dip for > boxes). The lumber I have been using has always been seven eighths > thickness (my apologies to metric bee-l members: Canada is supposedly > metric, but lumber is one thing that never changed over). > > My past experience with poplar boards is that they have to be fastened still > green before they warp. I expect that they would dry straight once in a > box, but I would sure appreciate the advice of someone who has tried it > before I make 500 possibly garbage boxes. If you are talking poplar as in aspen or cottonwood - never! It's definitely junk wood. But if you mean yellow poplar, or tulip poplar, I'd go for it. A lot of cabinet work is based on a yellow poplar foundation (pretty much regarded as interchangeable with white pine), and it is a pop-u-lar siding wood in the midwest. It's nice wood to work, and will not split near as much as spruce. Dipping in linseed oil or paint will solve much of the warpage problem with any kind of wood. Many beekeepers mistakenly paint only the outsides of the hives, not realizing that this makes an imbalance in moisture transfer through the wood and encouraging warping. I have rarely seen any warped supers if they were dipped in a good quality paint. As long as the paint is dry, the bees don't care whether the wood is painted or not. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html The Pollination Home Page: http://www.pollinator.com Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 05:23:47 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Charles Frederic Andros Subject: Re: Stan Sandler : poplar for supers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Stan, I made some poplar supers from the poplar that is popular in NH for fini= sh woodworking, Populus tremuloides, or quaking aspen. I used dry clear boards, glued and screwed. Then I gave them the paraffin treatment previously described. They are fine supers. Charles F. Andros NH/VT Apiary Inspector '78-=9289 Linden Apiaries 1 McLean Road POB 165 Walpole, NH 03608-0165 USA/EUA 603-756-9056 phone/fax if notified by phone email: lindena@sover.net Residence: Latitude: 43=B0 05=92 North, Longitude: 72=B0 21=92 15=94 Wes= t, Elevation 362 meters Keeper of 41 two-queen colonies for honey, pollen, propolis, pollination, nuclei, beeswax, apitherapy, and education. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 05:46:18 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Charles Frederic Andros Subject: Re: George Styer: 2 queen mystery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable George, I have more than once had a queen end up on the wrong side of the exclud= er. My suggestion is that either a virgin or young laying daughter-queen flew= in a hole or crack on return from a mating flight or slipped around the excluder when you were working the hives! Charles F. Andros NH/VT Apiary Inspector '78-=9289 Linden Apiaries 1 McLean Road POB 165 Walpole, NH 03608-0165 USA/EUA 603-756-9056 phone/fax if notified by phone email: lindena@sover.net Residence: Latitude: 43=B0 05=92 North, Longitude: 72=B0 21=92 15=94 Wes= t, Elevation 362 meters. Keeper of 41 two-queen colonies for honey, pollen, propolis, pollination, nuclei, beeswax, apitherapy, and education. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 11:12:22 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Dalby Subject: Re: 2 queen mystery Comments: To: GSTYER@postoffice.worldnet.att.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: George Styer To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Date: 28 September 1998 23:53 Subject: 2 queen mystery > >Blew the bees out of the supers this weekend and I just happen to spot an >UNMARKED queen walking across the topbars. So now I look at the frames of >what used to be 100% sealed honey and there is brood of all stages on 2 of >the frames. Yes this is possible for a virgin queen to get through the QX but unlikely. More likely there is a small entrance into the hive above the QX (a splintered edge off of the super box allowing access or similar). This has happened to me on a few occasions over the last 20 years. Huh? A quick look into the deeps below the QX reveales that the >MARKED queen is indeed still there and laying. > >So how do I end up with 2 laying queens, one on each side of the QX? I can >not offer up an explaination of how a laying queen could end up above the >excluder since there could not have been any eggs up there from which to >raise a queen. Is it possible that this queen hatched below (possibly a >supercedure), mated and then squeezed her skinny butt through the QX to >live happily ever after up in the honey supers? If so, why wouldn't she >have destroyed he old MARKED queen? Under superceedure conditions it is possible for two queens to live side by side for some months. Over here in England I have seen two queens in a hive in the spring both laying. These must have been living together since the previous autumn possibly as long a six months and these colonies usually build up fairly rapidly. The older queen has always disappeared by late spring. Without marking queens it would be almost impossible to realise this was going on. The Snelgrove system of swarm control is a form of two-queen system whereby the bees mingle between the two queens, one will be above theQX and one below, this system is fairly commonly used here. Hope this contains some suggestions for you Peter Dalby, England ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 21:09:50 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Effects of Bayvarol and Apistan on Acarine Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello All I was talking with a beekeeper friend today. He is not on the internet and he asked me to put the following question. What effects if any has the use of Bayvarol and Apistan on the Acarine mite - acarapis woodi? He is presently putting Bayvarol strips into some of his hives to combat acarine. He does not yet have varroa. I heard that it is not advisable to use a varroa treatment when varroa is not present, and told him so. He is also putting methylsalicylate into his hives, by soaking a piece of absorbent material in the methylsalicylate, tieing this on the end of a stick and pushing this into the hive entrance to combat acarine also. This was a very bad summer in Ireland, and for this reason he felt that the bees will go into winter under stress and hence liable to disease. Hence his pre occupation with remedies. What do the members of the list think of the above? Thanks for any replies. Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland e mail cssl@iol.ie Tel + 353 1 289 5269 Fax + 353 1 289 9940 Latitude 53 Degrees 16' North Longitude 6 Degrees 9' West of Greenwich ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 15:25:20 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard Spiekhout Subject: bee space Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I have built some medium supers and hive bodies and wanted to get the comb drawn in the hive bodies. I put them on top of hives that consist of 1 hive body full of brood pollen and honey and a medium super full of honey. The hive bodies and supers that I bought have 9 frames sitting on spacers. I did not notice that the frames rest about 3/8ths inch below the top of the super/hive body. The ones that I built are even with the top and have about 3/8ths inch bee space on the bottom. This gave me 3/4ths inch beespace which the bees promptly began to fill with comb and honey. I took of the supers and found comb all over the bottom of the frames and top of the original hive bodies. The bees are not using the foundation that I put on top so today I switched 1 hive and put the new hive body in the middle. I need help! Is bee space supposed to be on the top or bottom? How do I get the bees to draw out the comb? I'm new but I am learning. Thanks Richard ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 18:38:44 +0100 Reply-To: mpym@hive.netkonect.co.uk Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Madeleine Pym Subject: Re: 2 queen mystery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi George, I think your queen may well have squeezed through. I had one that did that, she was a bit of a runt. She laid well though and no complaints on that score. Nonetheless she was superseded after one year. At the time I found brood in the middle of the first frames above the excluder as well as below. I searched every frame above and below and just could not find her. Then as I went to put back the queen excluder, there she was, and as luck would have it she squeezed through the excluder before my very eyes. So that was the end of that mystery. I kept her out by keeping a super of sealed honey above the excluder, and as I say the bees superseded her anyway later that year. As regards why she would not kill the other queen. I think this idea that the old queen is always killed is not as absolute as the books would have it. I have seen 2 queens coexist in a 3 frame observation hive, which you would think would be the last place one would expect to see 2 queens together - with so little space. One was the old marked queen and the other was a new one. What's more I watched them approach one another (thinking this was it now and the big fight was about to happen) only to see them both tuck there abdomens into a cell and lay an egg, with their heads almost touching. They had lived together for three weeks at that point. R.O.B. Manley has several stories to tell in his book 'Bee Keeping in Britain', in one of his hives he observed the old and young queen, usually on the same frame, at every inspection that Spring and Summer. They had lived together through one winter already at that point, and he reckoned tehy were together for over one year in total. The hypotheses would seem to be that queens reared under a supersedure impulse do not have the 'instinct' to fight it out. Perhaps at some level they know their turn is coming, and that their purpose is not to produce another colony only to continue that one. Another reason is that it is very easy to damage some types of queen excluder, and it doesn't take much of a knock t allow space for a queen to get through. Then again, maybe they have read Plato's 'Republic' and heeded his advice. He thought that a colony needed more than one 'king' bee, because one alone could not hold the whole thing together. Too many and they would start to compete for the sympathies of the hive and would then take off with part of the colony, thus leading to disunity. Hence his 'Republic' was to have several (but not too many) 'philosopher kings' to keep a healthy and stable society. What's more he had no time at all for drones. He would have made a ruthless beekeeper. Just thought I'd throw that one in. Madeleine ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 14:55:28 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: Smoky African Honey Hi Faith/All Faith it is good to hear you had a great time in central african and that you tasted some honey there. There are a number of reasons the honey was smoky: 1) African bees are aggressive - hence some beekeepers use a lot of smoke. Some beekeepers use materials with lots of tannins that leave a smoky residue in the honey - things like grass, burlap, pine needles, wood, elephant dung, cowdung and so on all leave a residue easily with even a little too much smoke. This will not be a problem in a country like the Congo where the majority of honey is locally consumed - by people exposed to the smell of burning things all the time (cooking fires) so the smoke smell will go untasted. 2) As you say - the honey may have been proccessed over a wooden fire (help!) and given that central african has a reported hive density of at least 100 colonies per square kilometer that proccessing must have occurred indoors - definite smokey honey making conditions. 3) If it was wild gathered honey there is a comon practise in tropical africa of smoking bees out of a hive completely (wild hive) before taking the honey. Scutellata swarms will abscond readily at certain times of year and taking the honeyn is much easier once the bees are gone. The brood is also kept for food. (In Zimbabwe in rural areas people will often place a car tyre below a wild colony - eg in a tree and light the tyre/tyres to cause the bees to abscond - I think that honey would have a strong smell and definitely not pass as healthy to eat) On the plus side - there are many african honeys that have no smokey smell and given the very low use of pesticide in many areas are also free of most other residues. I dont think it would be from flowers that the taste came though. Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis Eastern Cape Prov. South Africa Time = Honey After careful consideration, I have decided that if I am ever a V.I.P the I. may not stand for important. (rather influential, ignorant, idiotic, intelectual, illadvised etc) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 09:11:53 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard Spiekhout Subject: Re: beetles Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit How do you check for beetles? Richard ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 09:10:09 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard Spiekhout Subject: Re: poplar for supers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Yellow poplar Is a very good wood though not exceptionlly strong it is used in siding and beams under floors because it is resistant to termites. I would use it if I had it. Richard ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 08:54:51 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Two queen systems The recent notes concerning two queens in a hive and use of the Snelgrove system reminded me of a question I wanted to ask the group. I know a person who produces many thousands of Ross Round sections a year, on a late flow of Yellow Star Thistle. In his area this blooms in July. From April-June he runs his hives with two queens and two entrances and supers for extracted honey. He has a heavy flow from May 1 until mid-June. While running two queens he has a solid board between the hives and uses a hole for an entrance to the upper hive. Beginning with the Yellow Star flow he reduces the hives to one deep, moves one queen elsewhere, and raises bumper crops of Ross Round sections. He tells me he never has a problem with swarming on the Yellow Star flow as it is too late (?), does not use excluders, and never has difficulty with brood or pollen in the Ross Round supers. He does not manipulate brood frames in the deep left behind and reports that the bees will not swarm as there is a dearth of two to three weeks between the end of the May/June flow and the July Yellow Star flow. This year another experienced beekeeper I know decided to let his bees build up by using two queens and the Snelgrove system. At the beginning of June he reduced to one deep, also moved the second queen elsewhere, and ended up with significant amounts of pollen in the Ross Round supers (but no brood)! Is there an obvious reason why the one beekeeper has no problem with pollen stored in the supers and the other does not? Could it be because the Yellow Star flow is so late the bees had already put sufficient pollen in the brood combs, while with a June flow it is likely the hive still needs pollen? If so, could pollen deposits in the supers be reduced by manipulating the brood combs to be certain they contained a lot of pollen? Lloyd LloydSpear@email.msn.com Owner, Ross Rounds the finest in comb honey production. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 08:14:17 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Honey prices >These familys need a chance to make a living and it will not happen at $ .62 per pound. Thank you very much. Best regards Roy Nettlebeck< The nearest packer to upstate NY, where I am, is in New Hampshire. I would say a medium size packer...but might be a small packer. Regardless, he was reported as offering $.57 a pound for 7,500 pounds of 1998 crop. Not certain of the grade involved. I have heard some talk of legal action against packers re. price fixing...but this might be "just talk". LloydSpear@msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 08:26:54 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Queen above excluder George Styer reports on two queens in a hive and asks how ? >The excluder was put in place after i had brood in my cut-comb super.< >So how do I end up with 2 laying queens, one on each side of the QX? I can not offer up an explaination of how a laying queen could end up above the excluder since there could not have been any eggs up there from which to raise a queen.< George, this is not the first time I have heard of ending up with two queens when a queen excluder was put below a super with eggs or young larvae. If there was a crack or hole above the queen excluder, it is not surprising that the bees raised a new queen and she mated. Otherwise, I believe your supposition is correct the young queen managed to get through the excluder for mating flights and to commence egg laying. As far as why the two queens did not fight and kill one, my understanding is that a virgin queen will co-exist comfortably with her mother and that even after the virgin mates there is a period of several weeks when both queens will occupy a hive and both will lay eggs. This is covered in Tom Seeley s book The Wisdom of the Hive. Lloyd LloydSpear@email.msn.com Owner, Ross Rounds the finest in comb honey production. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 14:38:05 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Two queen systems & Pollen In-Reply-To: <199809292044.NAA04576@mx1.thegrid.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:54 AM 9/29/98 -0400, you wrote: >he reduced to one deep, also moved the second queen elsewhere, and ended up >with significant amounts of pollen in the Ross Round supers (but no brood)! >Is there an obvious reason why the one beekeeper has no problem with pollen >stored in the supers and the other does not? >Could it be because the Yellow Star flow is so late the bees had already put sufficient pollen in the >brood combs, while with a June flow it is likely the hive still needs pollen? If >so, could pollen deposits in the supers be reduced by manipulating the brood >combs to be certain they contained a lot of pollen? My guess is that one beekeeper had two queen hives with the top entrance left open or some other situation that allowed the field bees in large number to enter the comb honey supers directly from the field. Would need more info for a better judgement. But normally the pollen is placed both close to the main flight entrance of the hive and adjacent to the brood combs. It is easy to get bees to store pollen in honey frames by training them to both a bottom and top entrance, the trick is to get them to store honey over the pollen. It can be done in some honey flows that normally produce heavy amounts of pollen with the honey such as wild buckwheat. I would suggest that those who master this art would indeed have a very unique saleable product in the health or natural food trade with value far exceeding what they would expect from just pure honey. At least in California a product like this could not be labeled as PURE HONEY but could be sold as POLLEN with Honey without some changes to the law. All things being normal the brood and pollen are in one area, serviced by a bottom entrance, the nectar and then nectar and honey are move or put in the upper areas. Upper entrances for ventilation are one thing but actually having active upper entrances that bees favor over the bottom entrance is detrimental to commercial honey production but very interesting. Supers can have a small ventilation hole that are fixed with a short clear plastic pipe that allow some ventilation and bees to exit but not enter with no negative effects on the hive or honey production. In hundreds of tests and trails that I did in this area, central California, one thing was constant, honey production was reduced by moving the main entrance to the top, but for sure pollen collection could be increased and in some cases doubled by having more then one pollen trap per hive unit. Interesting that in total brood rearing was not reduced over time but was slowed down or extended by trapping pollen. ttul, the OLd Drone (c)Permission is given to copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 17:33:41 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: ron taylor Subject: Re: beetles MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I have had hive beetles since october of last year. At first glance the are a black insect with a hard shell. The shell is round. This makes it difficult for the housebees to remove them. When you open a hive they run as soon as the light hits the frames. At first they were just a hive pest. It was learned in the Spring of this year that they went into the top supers and cracked the honey comb that was sealed. This causes the exposed honey to collect moisture and ferment. The hive develops an smell of oranges. You also see alot of moisture on the top of the frames which have frames which that have been damaged. This causes the bees to bee pushed down and out of the hive. The last thing the beetle does is lay eggs in the exposed honey cells. the eggs develop to about 1/2" in length. After a period of time they travel down trough the hive and either gather on the bottom board in mass or they travel down the bottom board and drop to the ground. Here they grow and develop into the pupa stage and new beetles are developed and the cycle starts again. There are no approved controls: Dursban, a soil treatment, can be used under the hive on the ground to break the cycle. A trap can be devloped to catch the larve as they drop from the bottom board. One of the journals indicated that you could take a piece of corrigated card board and split it in two to expose the ridges. lay it on the bottom board. The beetles like to lay in the between the ridges. symptom: you see the beetles Your recognize a wet super you see the larve You dig in ground below the hive and the larve in the ground. Clemson University has a new 6 page brochure on the Hive beetle http://www.clemson.edu. To read the brochure which is a pdf file you will need a reader. you can download adobe reader. Save the file to a disk and open the file using the reader. I hope this has been helpful. Ron Taylor, president of South carolina Beekeepers. Richard Spiekhout wrote: > How do you check for beetles? > Richard ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 15:23:59 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: Honey prices In-Reply-To: <199809292045.NAA04780@mx1.thegrid.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:14 AM 9/29/98 -0400, you wrote: >>These familys need a chance to make a living and it will >not happen at $ .62 per pound. Thank you very much. >Best regards >Roy Nettlebeck< >The nearest packer to upstate NY, where I am, is in New Hampshire. I would >say a medium size packer...but might be a small packer. Regardless, he was >reported as offering $.57 a pound for 7,500 pounds of 1998 crop. Not >certain of the grade involved. That might be good as I know of one honey producer that was happy to sell 600 drums of Sage-Wild Buckwheat honey to a co-op early this month for $00.52 cutting the price they were paying by over .05 cents. Sure can't make a case of honey producers cutting anything but each other throats. >I have heard some talk of legal action against packers re. price >fixing...but this might be "just talk". I don't believe that at all as most honey packers seem to hate each other and would never get together long enough to fix any thing. IMHO, the OLd Drone For the latest and greatest honey market news http://beenet.com/bnews.htm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 09:47:21 +1200 Reply-To: nickw@beekeeping.co.nz Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Subject: New Zealand: Year 2000 tour In-Reply-To: <199809292043.IAA03417@axil.wave.co.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT YEAR 2000 TOUR TO NEW ZEALAND ============================== The proposed daily itinerary for the tour is outlined. The tour costs include sightseeing & entrance fees for activities listed (unless otherwise specified) external/internal airfares & use or luxury coach, accommodation (twin shares all rooms contain full private facilities). 14 breakfasts, 3 course Table D'Hote dinners including traditional Maori Hangi & concert & daily Lunches. Fully escorted by Trevor Bryant the itinerary has been carefully planned to combine NZ's scenic highlights with an excellent cross section of beekeeping in NZ This is a unique opportunity for beekeepers or persons interested in something more than a little different to relax, enjoy the beauty of NZ & meet the New Zealanders on their home turf. The Itinerary January 25th Depart Los Angeles on Air NZ for Auckland NZ January 27th Arrive Auckland early morning. Orientation tour of Auckland. Accommodation Rose Park Quality Hotel. January 28th Coach to Kerikeri in the Bay of Islands. Enroute we visit two beekeepers (honey producer, packer, exporter & pollination) and hiveware manufacturer. Accommodation Auto Lodge Paihia. January 29th Today we visit local horticultural orchards then two prominent Northland queen breeders/exporters. Option: For the non-beekeepers an excursion to Cape Te Reinga, NZ's northernmost point with return via the famed Ninety Mile Beach, cost $US87.00 includes lunch, entrance to Wagener Museum & traditional welcome & marae visit. Please advise your preference. January 30th Return to Auckland via Waipoua Kauri Forest & superb Pioneer Museum at Matatoke. Accommodation Rose Park Quality Hotel. January 31st We coach to Hamilton, where we visit Ruakura Research Stn; meet with Dr Mark Goodwin, apicultural scientist. Dr Peter Molan, honey a its use in medicine & Murray Reid Head of Apiculture with Ministry Agriculture. Lunch today with local beekeepers also visit to Commercial beekeeper. Tonight we stay at Quality Hotel Rotorua. Dinner tonight is a traditional Maori Hangi & Concert. February 1st On this day we tour the Thermal Wonderland of Rotoma, picnic lunch on shores of Lake Rotoiti, then to Comvita NZ manufacturers of bee & hive products for the Health food industry, visit to Kiwifruit Country & Auto Museum. If there is time, visit commercial beekeepers operation (export package bees/queens, honey production & pollination). This evening a B.B.Q. with local beekeepers. Accommodation Quality Hotel Rotoma. February 2nd Take Air NZ National to Christchurch. Tour of Christchurch & Port Hills. A University City renowned for gardens museums and art galleries, time will be available for you to explore on your own. Tonight we meet with local beekeepers. Accommodation Auto Lodge Christchurch. February 3rd Enroute to Mt. Cook we visit two commercial beekeeping operations & enjoy the magnificent scenery. Accommodation Country Time Resort. Omarama. February 4th To Queenstown, enroute some special interest stops. This afternoon is free time in a very special part of NZ. Plenty to interest all, scenic flights, jet boating, hiking, farm visits & steamboat rides. Accommodation Lakeland Hotel. February 5th Queenstown. this morning we tour local area & visit some special interest sites, beekeeping small farms & nut tree farm. The afternoon is free. Accommodation Lakeland Hotel. February 6th Coach to Invercargill. Enroute visit Avenal Station for a 4 hour farm visit. The Garden family farm deer, sheep, cattle, forestry (also includes bees) also there are two large gardens on the property, a 4 hectare (10 acres) woodland garden with a rock walled alpine area & series of ponds, and 2 hectare garden of extensive shrubberies, rose beds, & collection of Alpines. Lunch today is in the garden. This afternoon we visit a local beekeeping operation - honey production, processing exports. Tonight we meet with local beekeepers. Accommodation Ascot Park. February 7th Enroute to Dunedin we pass through Gore & Clinton, stop at TelFord Agricultural Training College. Meet with Beekeeping Unit Tutor & students. We visit a commercial beekeeping operation. Tonight we will socialise with local beekeepers. Accommodation Leisure Lodge. February 8th This morning we visit Larnocks Castle and the Albatross Colony & after Lunch return to Christchurch. NB Additional cost $US38.00 Accommodation Auto Lodge Christchurch. February 9th This morning is free to do as you please in Christchurch or for those that wish we can visit Ecroyds See Supplies and/or a local honey packer/exporter. At 3:10 pm we fly to Auckland to meet the International flight to LA & home or for some we depart for other destinations. Bon Voyage. --------------- All of this for just $US4098.00 per person (twin share). Single supplement $US582.00 (Does not include Govt departure taxes) Subject to international currency fluctuations, airfares & other rates beyond the organiser's control. Optional extras are available on request. You tell us what you would like to do/see. We will do the rest. You may like to see other parts of NZ perhaps even Australia or a Pacific Island. From our perspective it is easier after the tour (you won't get lost at the start then). A deposit of $US500.00 is required by Sept 30 1999 with balance by December 1st 1999. For further information and inclusion on our mailing list. Contact Trevor G. Bryant Alpha Bees Limited PO Box 486 TE PUKE 3071 NEW ZEALAND Telephone/Fax: 0064-7 573 6885 E-mail: alphabee@xtra.co.nz or Jo Page - UNITED TRAVEL PO Box 271, Te Puke Telephone: 64-7 573 7805 Or Lois Bauer Highway 32 North Fertile Minnesota 56540 U.S.A Telephone: 218 945 6898 Email: bhoney@mean.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 21:04:37 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: Re: Honey prices Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 9/29/98 7:15:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, LloydSpear@EMAIL.MSN.COM writes: > > The nearest packer to upstate NY, where I am, is in New Hampshire. I would > say a medium size packer...but might be a small packer. Regardless, he was > reported as offering $.57 a pound for 7,500 pounds of 1998 crop. Not > certain of the grade involved. > Let them pack sand Or import honey Sell as much of your crop retail and local as you can. I remember milk being dumped or fed to hogs to keep prices up in an oversupply. This for me is a hobby and even though I harvested a little over a ton this year a gallon jug is about as close to wholesale as I care to sell. I am getting 8-9$ a quart in mason jars for raw honey with no heat used in the processing including uncapping with a fork. Nothing fancy involved here- all wildflower harvested late spring midsummer and fall and kept seperate. Tom in CT who feels strongly that his honey is no commodity. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 21:22:48 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Dalby Subject: Re: bee space MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: Richard Spiekhout >I need help! >Is bee space supposed to be on the top or bottom? >How do I get the bees to draw out the comb? >I'm new but I am learning. > Thanks >Richard In answer to your questions. It really does not matter where your bee space is as long as it is consistent thoughout your equipment. That is all your equipment is top bee space or all your equipment is bottom bee space. It does tend to vary according to the hive type and original manufacturer. In the UK there is considerable controversy amongst beekeepers as towhich is best and both types are in use. To get bees to draw out comb you need to make sure you do not have too wide a space between the frames as the bees will build an extra sheet of brace comb between them. The bees will build comb most readily when there is a nectar flow or ready source of feed around. Number of frames in boxes again depends on your hive type. Peter Dalby, England> ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 13:18:28 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Bee space and drawing foundation Richard asks about bee space and how to get combs drawn. Richard, the bee space can be either at the bottom or top, or split between the two. The bees do not care. When beekeepers get in trouble with burr comb, as you have, it is because they mix different equipment. Usually this means two or more different companies or people manufactured the equipment. Right now, the best thing you can do is cut down the equipment so that you reduce the > inch space to 3/8 inch. Do it on a table saw with an old blade, and go right through any nails. WEAR SAFETY GOGGLES! In the future look carefully at equipment you are buying and cut it down or add strips before assembly, if possible. It is real important that all of your equipment be interchangeable between hives without causing excessive burr comb. When drawing comb, never put it on top of a super or hive body that is 75% or more full of honey. The best place to draw comb is directly over the brood nest. Next best (but a poor second) is over a super or hive body with drawn but unfilled comb, providing that on top of the super with foundation is a super 75% or more filled with honey. Foundation must be drawn on a heavy flow or a light to moderate flow with constant feeding. You do not mention where you are, but to the best of my knowledge there is no where in the US where you can draw foundation now. I believe the next opportunity will be in Florida or Texas from mid-February. Good luck, Lloyd LloydSpear@email.msn.com Owner, Ross Rounds the finest in comb honey production. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 17:41:57 +0300 Reply-To: Rimantas Zujus Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rimantas Zujus Subject: Re: Two queen systems Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Bee-L members Lloyd Spear have written: >I know a person who produces many thousands of Ross Round sections a year,... I'd like to know what is this "Ross Round sections". Maybe, I could see it in the web? Thanks Rimantas Zujus Kaunas LITHUANIA e-mail : zujus@isag.lei.lt http://www.online.lt/indexs.htm 55 Deg North, 24 Deg East ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 05:43:33 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andrew & Tiffany Dubas Subject: my mother has MS, Venom therapy ? Comments: To: Beekeeper MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone know about Venom therapy ? My mother has multiple sclerosis and I have plenty of bees, but don't know much about how many stings, where to sting and so on, also she is very afraid of the sting of the bee, can some one recommend a sting kill cream or something ? any help on this would be great because though my mother can still get around and would say the MS is medium in severity it is going down hill. thanks for the help... Andrew "dubie" PS thanks for the people who replied about the PARA moth at wal-mart. saved me money ! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 11:00:11 -0400 Reply-To: dublgully@worldnet.att.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Gaida Subject: Collecting feral bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We got a call from a person who had recently purchased a farm. (The acreage was wonderful, 96 acres, part pasture, part old wood forest, 14 acre fully stocked lake.) This farm was a fixer upper, with at least 6 buildings, all in modest repair but needing some refurbishing. The gentleman tells us they paid US$250,000 on a land contract. There was one building, two story on a hillside, that used to have a bait shop on the bottom floor with a full apartment on the second floor. The second floor was level with the entrance on the hill. TO THE BEES. The reason we were called is that there seemed to be a lot of bees in the one room of the apartment. We were given full permission to remove any drywall, etc., make holes, whatever, because the whole building was to be gutted and refurbished. Apparently the downstairs had been flooded in the spring of 1997. We loaded up our bee vacuum, knives, hammers, prybars, ladder, bucket of soapy water and lots of clean 5 gallon buckets, and headed over for the HUNT. Dave was working right in the wall so he had his complete suit on, I was handling the vac, buckets, flashlight, so I just wore a helmet. Long sleeves and pants. We pulled the nails from the drywall and pulled it out about 3 inches at the bottom and smoked the bees. Let the smoke permeate, then started pulling the drywall away. (Ended up being the only time we needed to use the smoke) THE BEES WERE SO CALM, NONE CAME OUT AT US. The comb began at the top of the wall, 8 feet up, and extended for about 6 feet down. There were five layers of comb within the wall space, the space was 24 inch centers full 2x4s. The comb was flat to the wall, 24 inches wide. The entrance was on the outside of the wall at the eave (top of the wall). The bottom 4 feet of all 5 layers was all capped honey. The next 10 inches or so was pollen. The brood was from the top down for about 12 to 15 inches. There was no brood in the outer 2 layers of comb toward the inside of the building. There was brood in the comb toward the outside wall. We put the comb and honey into buckets. We took some of the brood comb and placed it into frames that we had crisscrossed with cotton twine, then crisscrossed over it. We placed these frames into a deep bee box we took with us. The bees that were on the comb were left on it. There was some wax comb, no brood, pollen or honey in the next wall space. Only about 12 inches hanging from the top. This comb was sited perpendicular to the drywall. In other words, it was 4 inches wide, with about 6 combs hanging down. We were able to vacuum most of the bees into our box. Unfortunately this process took about 8 hours. Think some of the first bees into the box didn't make it. Ended up with about an inch of dead bees. We had to vacuum as we exposed each new layer of comb. Don't know if we got the queen or not, we were not able to spot her. It was dark in the building and the flashlight gave out after 6 hours or so. We ended up with 6 5-gallon buckets of comb honey, one bucket of wax. We came home and dumped the bees from the vac into the bee box with the brood comb and additional foundation in it. We placed an empty super on top for space to dump. We began feeding 1:1 sugar as soon as the bees were in. I got one sting because I trapped one lady between my ungloved hand and the edge of a bucket. Dave got about 4 stings through his gloves from trapping the ladies when he was holding the comb and putting it into the buckets. I have a whole lot of questions. Why was the empty wax comb sited differently than the stores and brood. The brood was above the honey and pollen but right by the entrance at the top. There was insulation in both wall spaces next to the bee space, the space with the empty wax had the insulation down about 3 feet. Had the bees removed the insulation? There were about 6 holes in the drywall spaced from the top on down. They were all propolized except the bottom hole. The bottom hole was just beginning to be propolized. The holes were from 1/2" to 1" in diameter and did not appear to have a recognizable shape, like from a hammer. Why were these feral bees so docile? There was very little odor of aster or goldenrod, even though that is what is in bloom. It would be wonderful if this was May instead of September. Maybe we saved these ladies from the exterminator, maybe we just extended their lives for a few weeks. The whole experience was wonderful. Would have been perfect if we had remembered to take the camera. (We are going to share the honey with the owner) Loving these bees, Judy Kentucky, USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 20:22:28 -0500 Reply-To: boby@lakecountry.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Young Subject: nuc hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I need some advice as to how to start a nuc hive( I have a four-frame nuc and feeder). I have five good hives now; I thought I would pull two frames of brood from the strongest, wait 24 hours and put in the new queen. Do I need to place the nuc very far from the other hives? How long should I keep the bees confined in the nuc? Lots of questions, need some advice(and experience). Thanks, Bob