========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 20:55:26 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: George W Imirie Subject: Re: Nosema treatment ? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Gregorie: Fumidil-B is NOT fumigillin!!! Fumidil-B is the combined preparation of the chemical "fumigillin" mixed with an inert carrier to make mixing easier. Do just what the directions say: 1 rounded teaspoon of Fumidil-B dissolved in one gallon of 2:1 sugar syrup. Let me help you get it mixed, or it will all float on the surface of syrup like flour. Mix the rounded teaspoon of fumidil-B in just 1-2 ounces of WARM (not HOT) water and stir, stir, stir until dissolved. Then mix that into the gallon of 2: 1 sugar syrup. If you just try to dissolve the fumidil-B in the gallon of syrup, you will still be stirring on Thanksgiving Day, and the fumidil-B will NOT be dissolved. How do I know? I have fed about 100 colonies fumidil-B every November for about 25-30 years; but I have HEALTHY bees. It is a pain in the ___, but healthy bees are worth the trouble. George Imirie ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 22:07:30 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Conrad Sigona Subject: Re: Nosema treatment ? In-Reply-To: <199810080026.UAA14724@newport.ntcnet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > "Fumidil-B is best prepared at a concentration in the range > of 75 to 100 mg.fumigillin activity per gallon of 2:1 sugar > syrup." I believe this refers to pure fumigillin. > The instructions now leave the confines of reality > as they further recommend," When only (1) or (2) colonies > are to be treated, the syrup may be made by dissolving a > rounded teaspoonful (3.75 to 5 grams ) FUMIDIL-B per galon > of syrup." I believe this refers to fumigillin with filler (that is, as it is found in the FUMIDIL-B bottle). > At the 5 gram/gal. rate, you are overdosing your bees > by a factor of 10 to 1. If the filler to fumigillin ratio is 10 to 1 (or more likely 9 to 1), the dosage would be closer to correct. Conrad Sigona conrad@ntcnet.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 09:24:39 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Seppo Korpela Subject: Re: Nosema treatment ? In-Reply-To: <01J2POZGF6OC9FMYYD@mtt.fi> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > > "Fumidil-B is best prepared at a concentration in the range > of 75 to 100 mg.fumigillin activity per gallon of 2:1 sugar > syrup." > > So far so good! > > The instructions now leave the confines of reality > as they further recommend," When only (1) or (2) colonies > are to be treated, the syrup may be made by dissolving a > rounded teaspoonful (3.75 to 5 grams ) FUMIDIL-B per galon > of syrup." When 5 grams of FUMIDIL-B is used to a gallon , this amount is only 20% of the bottle contents of 25 g, and will only contain 0.1 grams (=100 mg) of fumagillin. This is exactly the same dose as you get in using the bottle of 25 g (with 500 mg of fumagillin) to 5 gallons. > At the 5 gram/gal. rate, you are overdosing your bees > by a factor of 10 to 1. > No, you are not; Fumidil-B is not only fumagillin but also some other stuffs needed for the preparation. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 07:46:40 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ruary Rudd Subject: Fw: Ivy honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: Sr. Monica Ryan Date: 07 October 1998 21:31 Subject: Ivy honey >I am interested to know how one can best handle such a >crop. It granulates almost rock hard, and I'm told it is not the type >of honey one would relish at breakfast. >Questions: (1) How can it be got out of the combs? (2) What use can >be made of it? >Many thanks for any tips. >Sr. Catherine Duffy. I have always felt that the ivy flow, being the last nectar flow of the year should be left to the bees for their winter stores. If the flow is good then the amount of syrup required is reduced. Ruary Rudd rrudd@tinet.ie ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:29:39 GMT+0100 Reply-To: Anthony.Morgan@iet.hist.no Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Anthony Morgan Organization: HiST/AIN/IET Subject: Re: weak hives and over-wintering MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Rimantas Zujus wrote (with smallt corrections) > I don't know what do you mean with "weak hive". If your colony is really > weak you should not give them sugar syrup. This is a very exhausting job > for the bees. Their wintering becomes worse. We are advised to give sugar syrup > to strong hives and later to steal some combs with sugar honey for the sake > of the weak ladies. conventional wisdom from this part of the world (Norway) 1. No point over-wintering really weak hives - combine. 2. When feeding for the winter it is even more exhausting for the bees if you feed them on foundation (as is often recommended so that they start the spring with new clean comb). In fact here trying do do this ends in disaster, they just don't build! Exhausted bees don't last the winter out. 3. Strong hives are often overfed and then some of the sugar frames taken out to be used as emergency food in the spring for those hives that run short for one or the other reason. Alternatively they can be used in nucs etc. as long as one is careful with their overall food balance. cheers Tony ---------------------------------------------------------------- Anthony N Morgan, Forsteammanuensis Institutt for Elektroteknikk Hogskolen i Sor-Trondelag N-7005 Trondheim, Norway anthony@iet.hist.no Tlf. 73 55 96 04 Fax. 73 55 95 81 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 11:24:23 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Lloyd's yeast in feeder suggestions Hi Lloyd/All Lloyd you mentioned that there are problems with yeasts in sugar syrup feeders and that making the water more alkaline or more ascetic helps. As far as I know the following should be the case. Most yeasts have an optimum growth pH above or below which their growth is pathetic. I know that two common yeasts in bees, Candida apis and apicola both don't grow below a ph of 3.7 - or at least they don't grow well. Likewise the same yeast does not grow well at a ph in excess of 8.00. They do however grow at these ph, just slower. AS they grow they can sometimes depending on the yeast change the ph to suit themselves. Hence if one is to acidify or alkalinise a sugar solution to stop growth using a buffer would be good. I would go for a citrate or acetate buffer as both of these acids should be of nutritional use to the bees. The danger with droppin the ph of a sugar solution is that if it is heated and the ph is below about 4 you get hectic caramelisation and a white sugar solution becomes a dark brown sugar solution - something I am sure the bees would not like. I know my yeast dislike it. I would not alkalinise it though - I remember hearing that honey is naturally acetic - if the bees are not able to change it's ph they are likely to store it as alkaline honey and then the honey will eat away at the wax turning it into soluble soapy stuff that may dissolve into the honey and so on. Alternatively the bees may try for ages to drop the pH of the honey and exhaust their internal supplues of H+ ions giving one woozy bees with alkaline haemolymph (sort of similar to bees taking too many tums). Even one teespoon of NaOH in a large drum of sugar soln would raise the pH to over 9 or 10. Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis 6139 South Africa Time = Honey If you are not living on the edge you are taking up too much space!! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 21:13:47 -0500 Reply-To: meity_5@smallbytes.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: meity_5 Subject: bees Comments: cc: Max.Watkins@sandoz.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am a 5th grade student. My mom and I are trying to find one of the world's largest bees that can only be found on one island. Can you help? Thank You. We'll BEE waiting. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 21:08:30 PDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Re: pH of honey In-Reply-To: <199810080926.TAA03860@iccu5.ipswich.gil.com.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Garth wrote > I would not alkalinise it though - I remember hearing that honey is > naturally acetic - if the bees are not able to change it's ph they > are likely to store it as alkaline honey and then the honey will eat = > away at the wax turning it into soluble soapy stuff that may dissolve = > into the honey and so on. Alternatively the bees may try for ages to = > drop the pH of the honey and exhaust their internal supplues of H+ > ions giving one woozy bees with alkaline haemolymph (sort of similar = > to bees taking too many tums). Even one teespoon of NaOH in a large > drum of sugar soln would raise the pH to over 9 or 10. Honey has a pH of around 3.5 to 4. This makes it acidic and is one of = the reasons why it has antimicrobial properties. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 07:48:03 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Gauthier Buddy J Subject: Ants and Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hello to all, Should I bee concerned if there are some red ants mixed in with my hive? I wouldn't call it an infestation, but there are a few in there. It seems with ants that when you see a few, a million show up later. The hive is not the strongest one in the world. I got them in April 1998 and lost the 1st queen. The 2nd one is doing well and the population is growing everyday. Currently I have 4 frames of brood and they are expanding. What should I do or use to evict the ants, if need bee? Buddy Gauthier Computer Systems Analyst Cameco Industries, Inc. Thibodaux, LA 70301 Phone: (504)448-0339 Fax: (504)435-4704 Email: T802273@deere.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 09:07:19 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Dale Q. Marmaduke" Subject: My honey harvest MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Beekeepers, I did my second year harvest last weekend. The results were eight gallons of honey and one quart of wax. The results from central Indiana with one backyard hive. (I also called our local food store and reported their honey display needed cleaned up. Old dusty jars, sticky and poorly shelved. I would guess the worst display in the store. Too bad honey is not marketed like Cambels soups.) Dale Marmaduke dmarmad@iquest.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:21:36 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Feeding weak hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Remnants Zujus says: "If your colony is really week you should not give them sugar syrup." Of course, he is completely right, especially in the fall. Colonies that are really weak should be combined with other strong colonies in the fall. I was referring to spring colonies that do not have sufficient amounts of stores. A package is one such colony, over-wintered nucs are another. Lloyd LloydSpear@email.msn.com Owner, Ross Rounds(tm) the finest in comb honey production. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:21:38 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Mold (mould) in sugar solution MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Ken, You said "Thymol crystals, HAZARDOUS just like the majority of chemicals, will not dissolve in water, a solution must be made up as follows: dissolve one ounce of thymol crystals in five fluid ounces of surgical spirit. Shake the bottle vigorously. Use a half fluid ounce of this solution to 112lbs sugar in seven gallons of water." I called a local "drug store" (pharmacy) and they never heard of Thymol crystals, and asked if perhaps they have another name? The pharmacy (and I) assume that "surgical spirit" is medical grade alcohol. Is that right? (Fortunate that we share the same language!) Assume we get that straight... how many gallons of syrup do you get after dissolving 112 pounds in 7 gallons of water? Is it just seven gallons? I assume not, but if it is, how can you get that much sugar to dissolve? I can easily dissolve 25 pounds of sugar in a five gallon pail. To do this I put 25 pounds of sugar in the bucket, fill the bucket with 180 degree water, and mix. To mix I use a commercial paint mixer that is about a meter long and fits into the chuck of an electric 1/2" drill (apologies to those using the metric system). I have tried to mix 50 pounds of sugar in a five gallon bucket, and have never been able to do so. The best I have been able to do has left me with about 7 gallons of syrup. Lloyd LloydSpear@email.msn.com Owner, Ross Rounds(tm) the finest in comb honey production. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 09:28:05 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Musashi Subject: Re: Ants and Bees If your red ants are "fire ants" as they could be since it appears you are in Louisiana, then they easily could become a problem. What I have done that has usually worked in fire ants is to sprinkle some Amdro fire ant bait so the ants will pick it up and take it back to their nest. Fire ants eat "protein" and are insectivorous, not paying much attention to sweets. If bees are throwing injured or deformed larvae or pupae out of the hive, these are very attractive to fire ants. Since Amdro is a bait and the ants pick it up and carry it away, and there is nothing in it to attract bees, I have sprinkled it around the outside of the hive where I have seen the ants crawling and it does not seem to have bothered the bees. I don't think it would be a good idea to put any inside the hive (say, on the bottom board) because it's possible there might be some contamination caused by bees walking through it, and the bees might also pick it up to throw it out of the hive, and thereby obtain some of the poison as a contaminant. A possible suggestion to help avoid allowing the ants into the hive in the first place might be to place the hive on a stand and place the legs of the stand in cans with sand impregnated with motor oil. One person I know said that they just wiped some motor oil on the lower portion of the legs of the stand and that worked. Those are some of my thoughts about things that might help, especially if your ants are fire ants. If they are Pharoah ants or another variety that likes sweets, then the Amdro would not work and you would need to figure out another strategy. Good luck. Layne Westover College Station, Texas ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 11:25:23 PDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ernest Gregoire Subject: FUMIDIL-B MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Thanks to all who replied to my note. The lable on my bottles of Fumidil-b are blurred print, I can now guess what that print was trying to say. de AA1IK, Time the accursed enemy of man, cursed by youth for going to slow Ernie Gregoire and by the old for going to fast. R.R. 1, Box 221, South Rd. Beekeeper Canaan, NH. 03741 Fly fisher & tier, Promise Keeper. E-mail address: gregoire@endor.com packet address: AA1IK@WA1WOK.FN43FE.NH.USA.NA ------------------------------------- 10/08/98 11:25:23 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 09:44:15 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: My honey harvest In-Reply-To: <199810081425.HAA08254@mx1.thegrid.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:07 AM 10/8/98 -0500, you wrote: >(I also called our local food store and reported their honey display >needed cleaned up. Old dusty jars, sticky and poorly shelved. I would guess >the worst display in the store. Hi Dale, You did the right thing because any problem like this starts at the retailer level even though many honey wholesalers have people in the field that do work at the retail level they can not be in every story every day. I would caution you that if the retailer is doing a sloppy job with the Honey displays you should be very careful of anything you buy out of the meat or dairy display because of the real health hazards. >Too bad honey is not marketed like Cambels soups.) This is an interesting comment because some HONEY is marketed just like "Cambels" soups and maybe even by the same brokers in some areas. Honey at retail at the national and to some extent the regional level the US for the most part is not a case of direct sale by the honey producer or even the honey packer directly to the retailer. Food brokers are used as sale agents and they are responsible for the in store service to the retailer. In some areas the packer may have people who also do this, or both. I won't go into great detail on how it all works for honey but I want to say that if you think that corruption in selling in Mexico is bad, or marketing in Japan is bad then you know what it is like in the food or honey business in the US. It sucks, its corrupt, and it works. Not so many years ago Sue Bee built a new plant, not the last one, but the one before that, and I had a chance to visit with one of my good friends. We left the guided tour and did a real in depth inspection and found some interesting things going on in the old plant. Thousands of little glass jars of honey being melted or dumped in the old ovens meant for drums of honey. This was the returns that Sue's in store service had picked up and it amounted we later found out to 3/4 and of a million pounds and more over a period of years. This honey was not fit for human consumption by this time as most had changed with age and was sold for industrial uses not intended for food such as shoe shine coloring or something so we were told so it must have been. I myself have shipped similar honey to be used tobacco for cigar flavoring to Cuba when it was legal. I don't know if that what makes those presidential cigars taste so good or if its something else like a dark deep secret ingredient. Anyway I don't know what Sue Bee does today with the returned honey, but because of the high cost of handling such food products other national food company's donate it to local food banks and the light and take a nice tax write off. ttul, the OLd Drone Los Banos, Calif. http://beenet.com (c)Permission is given to copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 13:09:26 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ben Hanson Subject: I have a question: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have a question: My very industrious bees have filled another super (10 frames x 6 & 5/8) = full of capped honey. My questions is whether or not to leave it for = them. They have two large hive bodies, which I looked at closely in = September. One is basically full of honey, and the other has some at the = top of frames above brood etc. My guess is that's plenty in middle = Virginia for them to winter well, but I don't want to take the super if = they might need it. This is my first year, so I don't have any previous = experiences to base this upon. =20 Any input? Ben ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 11:47:15 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: FUMIDIL-B more then you ever wanted to know In-Reply-To: <199810081602.JAA01492@mx1.thegrid.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:25 AM 10/8/98 -0700, you wrote: >The lable on my bottles of Fumidil-b are blurred >print, I can now guess what that print >was trying to say. Hi Beekeepers & Friends, In this case with this product you should take it back at once! With this product is very critical in how it is handled and stored and if the labels are damaged there is a good possibilities you have a worthless product or at the least the first signs or appearance of one. You bee supply dealer will return your money or replace the product. Fumidil-b is package in a dark jar because it is very light sensitive. (SORRY, BUT It should not be fed in clear glass outside feeders in amounts of more then what the bees can remove in a short time.) It is packed with the air replaced with an inert gas because it is air sensitive. It should be stored in a cold box, not at room temperature because it is heat sensitive. The product itself is wax based, and contains buffers that make it foam up to aid in mixing the product. It first should be dissolved in warm, not hot water, using only enough to do the job when all foaming action has stopped, (it will look like brown water) and then it can be mixed with sugar syrup. BEEWARE, the active ingredients in this product are such as there is only one time it can be measured and that is in the manufacturing process which is one of the reasons it can not be used in humans. *You are buying a pig in the poke so to speak and placing all your trust in an anonymous off shore manufacture so if anything at all appears not to be normal you should return the product.. Heck for all we know the plant that makes this stuff may be the next target of this administrations "wag the dog" policy. Maybe we should stock up after all. WARNING. Feeding this drug should never be done in such a way that it could at some later date be extracted in the honey. (This is never been a problem because not test works to detect it and because of the high cost of the drug itself and any tests to detect it.) The nasty bug that this drug can control can be a human drinking water health problem and honeybees have been know to spread it. The symptoms of the disease in bees normally are expressed in the wet damp shady spring by suppressed build up of the bees in the bee hive. BUT the greatest increase or gains by using the drug were demonstrated in field trials to be in bees kept in the desert regions which are normally dry which has left a lot of questions in how the drug works. The original manufacturer of this drug wash their hands of it many years ago...and it is not licensed to be manufactured in the USA but can be sold here. BTW: I have used hundreds of jars of the stuff and still have them to prove it. I saved them just in case at some later date I needed proof of purchase if someone sued Abbott Labs the original manufacture for selling a bogus remedy and won. ttul, the OLd Drone Left Coast of the Republic of America Los Banos, Ca (California not Canada) Left Coast BEENEWS at: http://beenet.com/bnews.htp (c)Permission is given to copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 12:31:27 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: FUMIDIL-B does it work? In-Reply-To: <199810081853.LAA17300@mx1.thegrid.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Beekeepers & Friends, The rest of the story on Fumidil-B, does it work? Yes it works, at least in this area and for me. First I am a conservative so before I spent the money and it was and continues to be big money on this product I got some smarts. I made many telephone calls to the manufacture at the time and was lucky enough to hit it off with the hands on person who actually made the stuff and was educated more then I wanted to be on how it is made, including all the gory details on actually process and the like. I then went to the University of Nevada at Las Vegas crash course for USDA and State Department's of Agriculture regulatory officers, (crashed the party), to learn how to identify and count the buggers. Nothing special at all if you have the better power scopes and a blood cell counting glass slide. (End of BS) What it does for me in my location. I found the most rewarding use is in feeding queen banks, bulk bee cell builders as it all but eliminated the loss of queen bees in storage banks and made it possible to use the twenty pound bulk bee cell builders several times. Before feeding the loss in queen banks could go as high as 20% over time, and the loss of the bulk bees used for cell builders was 100% as we only used them once and then dumped them back in a bee yard. So when buying queens and package bees I would demand they be treated and the syrup in the package bee cage contain syrup with FUMIDIL-B. As for treating hives...it would be far better to find new locations with better conditions in most cases. In annual surveys in California it was shown that all bees used by package and bee shippers did have nosema and I am sure if that survey was expanded it would have shown that all bee keepers have it. The high numbers were found after the spring brood rearing started, so if you want low number you check early in the season. All numbers fall off as better conditions prevail, and can rise and fall with the cycle of the season, mostly lowers with good flight conditions and rises with damp confinement over time. As for passing off the bee nosema to humans it has been recorded in unprotected water tanks that honeybees have fallen in and drown. No big deal and should be fixed to keep the bees, birds, bats, and rats out which also keeps the hair and feathers from plugging up that strainer on your kitchen sink water facet. ttul, the OLd Drone Los Banos, CAlifornia Some selected archives of the OLd Drone's rumbling can be seen on-line at: http://beenet.com/index1.htm halfway down the page or so. >In this case with this product you should take it back at once! With this >product is very critical in how it is handled and stored and if the labels >are damaged there is a good possibilities you have a worthless product or >at the least the first signs or appearance of one. You bee supply dealer >will return your money or replace the product. > >Fumidil-b is package in a dark jar because it is very light sensitive. >(SORRY, BUT It should not be fed in clear glass outside feeders in amounts >of more then what the bees can remove in a short time.) > >It is packed with the air replaced with an inert gas because it is air >sensitive. It should be stored in a cold box, not at room temperature >because it is heat sensitive. > >The product itself is wax based, and contains buffers that make it foam up >to aid in mixing the product. It first should be dissolved in warm, not hot >water, using only enough to do the job when all foaming action has stopped, >(it will look like brown water) and then it can be mixed with sugar syrup. > >BEEWARE, the active ingredients in this product are such as there is only >one time it can be measured and that is in the manufacturing process which >is one of the reasons it can not be used in humans. > >*You are buying a pig in the poke so to speak and placing all your trust in >an anonymous off shore manufacture so if anything at all appears not to be >normal you should return the product.. > >Heck for all we know the plant that makes this stuff may be the next target >of this administrations "wag the dog" policy. Maybe we should stock up >after all. > >WARNING. Feeding this drug should never be done in such a way that it could >at some later date be extracted in the honey. (This is never been a problem >because not test works to detect it and because of the high cost of the >drug itself and any tests to detect it.) The nasty bug that this drug can >control can be a human drinking water health problem and honeybees have >been know to spread it. The symptoms of the disease in bees normally are >expressed in the wet damp shady spring by suppressed build up of the bees >in the bee hive. BUT the greatest increase or gains by using the drug were >demonstrated in field trials to be in bees kept in the desert regions which >are normally dry which has left a lot of questions in how the drug works. >The original manufacturer of this drug wash their hands of it many years >ago...and it is not licensed to be manufactured in the USA but can be sold >here. > >BTW: I have used hundreds of jars of the stuff and still have them to prove >it. I saved them just in case at some later date I needed proof of purchase >if someone sued Abbott Labs the original manufacture for selling a bogus >remedy and won. > >ttul, the OLd Drone >Left Coast of the Republic of America >Los Banos, Ca (California not Canada) > >Left Coast BEENEWS at: >http://beenet.com/bnews.htp > >(c)Permission is given to copy this document >in any form, or to print for any use. > >(w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! > (c)Permission is given to copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 19:46:50 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andrew & Tiffany Dubas Subject: creamed honey Comments: To: Beekeeper MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit How do you make creamed honey ? also anyone have an efficient way of separating honey from wax, I removed a colony from a wall and have all this comb I want to process, I don't have all the fancy pants rendering equipment, I normally use a double boiler but Im wondering if there is an easier way ? any suggestions ? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 17:48:08 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Edwards Organization: Hayden Bee Lab, USDA-ARS,Tucson, Arizona Subject: Re: creamed honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Assuming you have no brood in the combs, mash it up by hand and let drain through a doubled pantyhose leg - it will take a while, but will remove the wax - don't overload with too much weight. See the Cornell University archives for creamed honey by the Dyce Process. John Edwards, Tucson Andrew & Tiffany Dubas wrote: > How do you make creamed honey ? > > also anyone have an efficient way of separating honey from wax, I removed a > colony from a wall and have all this comb I want to process, I don't have > all the fancy pants rendering equipment, I normally use a double boiler but > Im wondering if there is an easier way ? any suggestions ? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 20:55:01 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Williams Subject: thymol, ants, and bee's wax MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I got a little wax when I harvested my first crop of honey, and I wonder = how to clean it up> In answer to the discussion on thymol. Thymol is 5 methyl-2 = isopropyl-phenol. It is recommended in 2% solution of ethanol-water = (30/70) for treatment of nail fungus, so presumably it should prevent = growth of fungus. Fire ants in Georgia are black, not red. Thanks, Dave ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 21:10:35 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Steve Newcomb Subject: Bees won't take syrup MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is my first winter with bees. I mixed about 6 gallons of Fumidil/sugar water mixture, per package directions, 2 weeks ago. I put 1 1/2 gallons on each of my 4 hives. I used home-make feeders, made from 1 1/2 gallon ice cream buckets. I used a 4 penny finish nail to punch about 15 to 18 holes in each lid, centered in about a 1" diameter circle. The bees are not taking the syrup. After reading other posts to this list, I expected them to have taken at least a gallon per hive. The best one has only taken about a half gallon, and the worst only a cup or two. The weather the first week was warm days and cool nights, lows in mid 50's, highs in mid 70's, mostly sunny. The second week brought clouds and rain, with temperatures lowering only slightly. We have not had a killing frost yet, and many flowers are still in bloom. Should consumption improve after a frost? (Generally Oct. 15-17 in this area). How long will the Fumidil remain effective? (Package says 1 month). Do I need more holes in my feeders? Can I leave the feeders on until all syrup has been consumed? (Assuming it doesn't mold). Any help would be appreciated. Steve Newcomb Elyria, Ohio ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 14:23:13 +1300 Reply-To: nickw@beekeeping.co.nz Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Subject: Re: creamed honey In-Reply-To: <199810090029.NAA28204@axil.wave.co.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > How do you make creamed honey ? Description of making creamed honey on a small scale by writing a new message (don't just REPLY to this one - it will really annoy the list!) to CREAMED@BEEKEEPING.CO.NZ (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- nickw@beekeeping.co.nz (/ NZ Beekeeping http://www.beekeeping.co.nz 'Order' files from an autoresponder... Bibliography: Bee Products as Env Indicators? Email to: envindic@beekeeping.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 23:23:23 -0400 Reply-To: vcoppola@froggernet.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Re: I have a question: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ben Hanson wrote: > > I have a question: > > My very industrious bees have filled another super (10 frames x 6 & 5/8) = > full of capped honey. My questions is whether or not to leave it for = > them. They have two large hive bodies, which I looked at closely in = > September. One is basically full of honey, and the other has some at the = > top of frames above brood etc. My guess is that's plenty in middle = > Virginia for them to winter well, but I don't want to take the super if = > they might need it. Hi Ben, Its not the the height of the stack but the weight that counts. What you describe would survive most winters here in NY, especially if they happen to be carniolans. Many new beekeepers waste honey by leaving an extra super or two in hopes that the result will be extra strong colonies in the spring. You never want them to run out but keep in mind that there is a limit to how much they can use. A good plan may be to remove that super of honey then just to make sure, feed them a couple gallons of sugar syrup with fumigillin, see rescent posts on that. Vince ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 23:48:07 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: I have a question: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Ben If the top large hive body is full of honey, that should be enough for the Winter in Virginia, since that is what we ensure our bees have up here in the great white north of Canada. Extract and sell the honey Regards, Ian Watson realtor@niagara.com real estate agent, baritone, gardener Beekeeper---> 11 colonies ->My very industrious bees have filled another super (10 frames x 6 & 5/8) = >full of capped honey. My questions is whether or not to leave it for = >them. They have two large hive bodies, which I looked at closely in = >September. One is basically full of honey, and the other has some at the = >top of frames above brood etc. My guess is that's plenty in middle = >Virginia for them to winter well, but I don't want to take the super if = >they might need it. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 08:42:37 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: Re: Bees won't take syrup Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/9/98 1:36:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time, slnewc@ALLTEL.NET writes: > The bees are not taking the syrup Every now and again I get a hive that behaves this way. I wet the top of the inner cover with syrup and set the feeder on this and it usually gets them started. Sometimes warm syrup gets worked quicker as well. Make sure the feeder holes didn't clog up. Tom in CT ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 09:16:13 -0400 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: I have a question: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If you have two hive bodies, the top full of honey and the bottom one with mainly brood but topped with honey , that is plenty for wintering in Virginia as well as in most of the USA. I doubt that y ou would even have to feed this colony at all with the ample stores they have, except to medicate them with Fumadil-B if you wish. The purpose of the super is to collect surplus honey, and that is what the bees gave you. Feel free to harvest it. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 09:32:50 -0400 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: Bees won't take syrup MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Steve Newcomb wrote: > This is my first winter with bees. I mixed about 6 gallons of > Fumidil/sugar water mixture, per package directions, 2 weeks ago. I put 1 > 1/2 gallons on each of my 4 hives. > The bees are not taking the syrup. After reading other posts to this list, > I expected them to have taken at least a gallon per hive. The best one has > only taken about a half gallon, and the worst only a cup or two. As you indicated in your original post, the fall honey flow may well still be on in your area (Ohio). Bees won't bother with anything else if nectar is coming in fast. Also, did you check the amount of room available for syrup storage? If your brood chambers are well filled with honey, there might not be any room to put the syrup. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 10:41:04 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Removing honey from wax MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "anyone have an efficient way of separating honey from wax, I removed a colony from a wall and have all this comb I want to process, I don't have all the fancy pants rendering equipment" I lived on a farm during the Second World War, and in those days if you did not have spare parts and could not make something yourself, you did without for the duration. While we did not keep bees, a neighbor did, and his extractor broke. I do not recall why he did not or could not borrow a neighbor's, but I do recall how he proceeded to collect a small amount of honey every year. He cut the comb from the frames and put several frames of comb into a huge cheesecloth bag. Then he crushed the comb by kneading the bag. He then somehow hung the bag next to the wood burning stove we kept going all winter, and the honey dripped into a large tin tub underneath. I think something similar would work for the wild bee comb referenced. The large amount of cheesecloth can be obtained at any paint store (any type of filter cloth will work well) and I notice that Home Depot (in this area) sells what looks like the old tin tubs. Depending on the temperature, 2-3 days should pretty much get you all the drainage you will get. You will still have a huge amount of honey captured in the comb. You can keep that for feeding (if you are certain there is no disease), melt the mixture and let it cool to separate the wax from the honey, or throw it away. I gather from your comment that you know how to melt the mixture to separate wax from honey, so I will not go into that. Lloyd LloydSpear@email.msn.com Owner, Ross Rounds(tm) the finest in comb honey production. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 10:34:45 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Medders Subject: Information Help Hi everyone, If you could find beekeeping information on each state/region what kind of beekeeping information would you want to see listed? I'm currently working on new pages to add to the beekeeping site at TMC. I would really appreciate any comments on this. As this helps me to give everyone more of the information they are looking for. Thank you Example: State: Alabama Listing for : Associations, B-Businesses, B-Suppliers, B-Supplies, Classifieds, Weather, Plants, ect... Kind Regards, Sherry Medders beekeeping.guide@miningco.com http://beekeeping.miningco.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 07:59:22 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Buck Rut Subject: Separating Wax from Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Greetings all! The question recently came up as to how to separate wax from honey. Another method that I have heard used is to gently heat the crushed wax/honey mixture. They will then separate out. Allow to cool, and remove wax from the top. Be careful though, and only apply enough heat to melt the wax, and not ruin the honey! Anyone having used this method, please let us know, because I have a small amount of honey that I plan to try this with. If it doesnt work, I'd like to know before I ruin the honey! Thanks all! Scott Moser Moser's Apiary Cedar Hill, MO. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 11:18:36 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: Re: Honey Price Support News Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Andy and All: > 10.6.98 Citizens Against Government Waste. In an attempt to >``pull the wool'' over taxpayers' eyes, legislators inserted the language >to revive the federal mohair program -- as well as the honey and wool >subsidy programs -- in the $56 billion agriculture appropriations bill, >which is laden with other pork-barrel goodies disguised as ``emergency'' >farm relief. and > I have been told honey will be >supported at about $.56 in some form of a farm loan program. I am happy that American farmers and beekeepers get some measure of help from their government. There is certainly very little margin in farming (and in beekeeping, if the price does drop below $.56). But it irritates me that the American government then turns around and slaps trade impediments and expensive legal challenges under the Free Trade Agreement against Canadian farmers for almost each and every tiny bit of help the Canadian government might give to our farmers. In terms of beekeeping this has been pretty well zip. We now pay for all inspections and services. I am told we have our New Zealand brethren to thank for this for "showing our government the way to slash spending". I must confess that a few years ago when the Canadian government cut the last subsidy to the railroads it "eased the pain" for a couple of years with a feed freight assistance program. I got a whopping huge windfall. I think it was fifty cents a hive. "Level playing field" ????? Guess it depends on who is holding the level. Regards, Stan ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 11:15:24 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Canon, Hartman" Subject: Re: Separating Wax from Honey MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain Heating GENTLY (mind that word 'GENTLY') works fine, and is the only method we used for years. We set the entire kettle into the OVEN (better than a burner for uniform heating) for 24 hrs at about 120-130F. IF you think separation is complete, let it cool for a day. You get one big cake of wax on the top, and honey is not damaged. The pan/kettle is so screwed up with wax that you will never be able to use it for anything else. After about 15 years of doing this, I finally bought an extractor last year, figuring I might as well go modern at last. HBCanon Geneva, FL ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 17:48:54 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: P-O Gustafsson Subject: Re: creamed honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > How do you make creamed honey ? Some years ago the commercial beekeeping org. in Sweden, Ekobi, did a research project on honey crystallization. You will find a step by step instruction on how to make a perfect fine crystallized honey on my homepage. http://www.algonet.se/~beeman/ Choose and -- Regards P-O Gustafsson, Sweden beeman@algonet.se http://www.algonet.se/~beeman/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 19:25:29 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Kai-M. Engfer" Subject: THE Beekeeping homepage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT http://insel.heim.at/mainau/330017 Great pictures and information! Kai-M. Engfer, Tel. 04347-8861 \| Ostlandstr. 1, http://insel.heim.at/mainau/330017 -|||8< D-24247 Mielkendorf /| ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 18:25:59 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: pH of honey and yeast Hi All/Trevor Thanks for that figure for the ph of honey. 3.5 is well below the lower of most yeasts range. There are however some yeast that thrive at such low ph and also thrive on sugar concentrations of over 60%by weight. I for a while last summer had some hives that I was feeding constantly on recycled dilute honey and sugar and so on, and using them to clean out many square meters/yards worth of pollen filled combs I got from bee removals. No I did not get any problems with disease, but I got lots of bees. I did however note that the hives began to get quite a strong 'skin' smell. There was definitely some yeast that infected the hive and it was alive and well in the honey. Now if I get honey from these hives if it gets even vaguely dilute it ferments - it is full of spores of the yeast - hence allowing a yeast which is ph tolerant to contaminate a hive is bad practise as it negatively affects the quality of honey later produced. BTW - bees move pollen out of combs placed at odd angles and repack it near the brood nest. Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis 6139 South Africa Time = Honey If you are not living on the edge you are taking up too much space!! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 13:53:33 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Greg J Zujus Subject: REQUEENING About 4 Weeks ago I noticed that one of my hives was no longer producing brood. At that time I checked for the queen and found she was present. I shrugged this off as some natural slow down. While again checking the hives about 14 days ago I noticed this hive still had no brood and while the other hives had cast out the drones this hive still had many drones present. I supplied the hive with a frame of brood of various stages. While checking the hives this week I noticed two capped queen cells built off this frame. I immediately ordered a new queen and she arrived today. I removed the attendants from the queen cage and proceeded to install the cage into the problem hive. When I removed the frame with the queen cells I noticed both had emerged. I checked the frame and found the old queen walking about, I crushed her to the new queen cage. When I continued checking the frame I found a virgin queen and crushed her to the new queens cage also. A brief check of the adjoining frames did not reveal any additional queens. I then placed the new queens cage between two frames and closed the hive. Now my question: Did I do everything right ? This late in the season I do not believe I will get another opportunity to re-queen this hive. I appreciate any opinions. Greg Z Mystic, CT ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 14:08:45 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garry Libby Subject: Re: Information Help In-Reply-To: <072ba12511409a8UPIMSSMTPSYS01@email.msn.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Sherry, How about: 1) the names and contacts of beekeeping clubs(State and local), as well as phone numbers. 2)major honey sources for states and regions ( in Boston I get huge crops from Linden trees, Milkweed, Locust and sumac trees and also from Clethra(sweet pepper bush). It took Me three years to find this out by myself. Hope this is helpfull, Garry Libby ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 13:16:00 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tracy Monahan Subject: Removing honey from wax -Reply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain this string has hit a nerve that I have been dealing with about imported honey. A friend of mine recently went to china and bought a baby. She explained how the venders would prepare rats for sale. they would sell the meat saperate from the guts. If these people would eat rat guts what would they put in there honey for an extra buck. I thought about the brood in the bag being mashed and the liquids mixed with the honey. Is importated honey checked for fical matter? to discuss this idea publicly hurts honey sales, imported or not. other countries seem to use chemicals that are forbidden in the U.S. and we eat it any way. Whats the logic. Who are the laws portecting? suppers ready later tracey ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 09:12:16 +1300 Reply-To: nickw@beekeeping.co.nz Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Subject: Re: Removing honey from wax -Reply In-Reply-To: <199810091904.IAA03525@axil.wave.co.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > this string has hit a nerve that I have been dealing with about imported > honey. > > I thought about the brood in the bag being mashed and the liquids mixed > with the honey. > > Is importated honey checked for fical matter? > > other countries seem to use chemicals that are forbidden in the U.S. and > we eat it any way. Whats the logic. Who are the laws portecting? While I am certainly supportive of providing a healthy, clean, safe product, I think the above arguments are emotive and potentially counterproductive to the writer's *real* argument. Might I suggest that if you want to 'protect' your local market from imports, you provide a superior product and market it in such a way as to achieve the financial returns you require for your work and investment. Emphasis on possible negative points of the imported product (particularly when only alluded to in such a manner) as you say doesn't really help *anyone's* products... Incidentally, the US uses the use of a number of chemicals in beehives that aren't allowed in some other countries. *On its own* that is not a blanket reason for disallowing the honey, or an implication that it is unsafe for consumption... (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- nickw@beekeeping.co.nz (/ NZ Beekeeping http://www.beekeeping.co.nz 'Order' files from an autoresponder... Bibliography: Bee Products as Env Indicators? Email to: envindic@beekeeping.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 17:13:06 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Christopher Slade Subject: Nosema treatment Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit If your bees have nosema, by all means treat them with fumidil if you can afford to. Before spending your money it is worth checking that they do actually have it in sufficient severity to make it worth while. Easily done with a microscope and a little practice. It always strikes me as pointless to treat you bees for a disease they don't have. If they do have heavy nosema ask yourself why. Although probably endemic it tends to be a nuisance only when the bees are stressed so before feeding fumidil do what you can to identify and remove whatever may be stressing your bees. If your bees do have nosema, fumidil, correctly applied, will slow it down a lot but it won't do anything about the spores already on the comb. These will be ingested and activated then the cell cleaning bees get to work as the colony expands in the spring leading to what used to be called spring dwindling. The answer is to move the bees onto foundation or to comb sterilised with 80% acetic acid as soon as practible in the spring. Do this and you may not need the fumidil. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 17:13:07 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Christopher Slade Subject: sugar syrup Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Our friends on the western side of the Atlantic are divided from us not only by a lot of water, and a common language but also a common system of weights and measures that has lost a little in the translation. The difficulty Americans experience in dissolving X pounds of sugar in Y gallons of water according to the recipe is caused by your gallons being smaller. English capacity measures are 20 fluid ounces to a pint (not your 16) and 8pints to a gallon. Somebody who is better at maths than I am will be able to tell us what the adjusted recipe should be. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 00:54:14 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tom Speight Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 7 Oct 1998 to 8 Oct 1998 In-Reply-To: <907905659.1017124.0@uacsc2.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <907905659.1017124.0@uacsc2.albany.edu>, Automatic digest processor writes >Mix the rounded teaspoon of fumidil-B in just 1-2 ounces of WARM (not HOT) >water and stir, stir, stir until dissolved. I find that thoroughly mixing it with dry sugar first does the trick. -- Tom S ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 00:57:49 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tom Speight Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 7 Oct 1998 to 8 Oct 1998 In-Reply-To: <907905659.1017124.0@uacsc2.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <907905659.1017124.0@uacsc2.albany.edu>, Automatic digest processor writes >... how many gallons of syrup do you get after >dissolving 112 pounds in 7 gallons of water? Is it just seven gallons? I >assume not, but if it is, how can you get that much sugar to dissolve? Using imperial measure: In the UK a winter mix is 2lbs sugar to 1pint water, therefore it is possible to mix up to 112lbs (7x16lbs) sugar with 7gallons (7x8pints) water. 1 gallon water weighs 10 lbs, therefore 7 gallons weigh 70 lbs, Assuming 112 lbs added to 70 lbs gives a total weight of 172lbs. I'm not sure what the s.g. of the syrup would be, but I guess about 1.5 which would give 11.5 galls (approx). My convertion from imperial to US is a bit rusty (after about 40+ years of non-use) but the ratio by weight of sugar to water (fl.oz.) =1.6:1 Therefore if 1 US gallon weighs 8lbs, the equivalent amount of sugar would be about 90lbs -I think they still have 16 ozs to the lb 'over there':-). >(Fortunate that we share the same language!) It certainly is!!! hth. -- Tom S ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 17:28:23 -1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pat Franklin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aloha everyone, What a drag it is getting old. Need information on hive moving equipment. I have lost most of the use of my arm and need ideas Thanks, Pat pat@aloha.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 08:01:01 +1300 Reply-To: nickw@beekeeping.co.nz Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 7 Oct 1998 to 8 Oct 1998 In-Reply-To: <199810101015.XAA11580@axil.wave.co.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > >... how many gallons of syrup do you get after > >dissolving 112 pounds in 7 gallons of water? Is it just seven gallons? > >I assume not, but if it is, how can you get that much sugar to dissolve? > Using imperial measure: If you have JavaScript enabled on your browser, there are a set of conversion tables for all sorts of beekeeping related figures at http://www.beekeeping.co.nz/convert.htm (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- nickw@beekeeping.co.nz (/ NZ Beekeeping http://www.beekeeping.co.nz 'Order' files from an autoresponder... Bibliography: Honey as a Healing Agent? Email to: healing@beekeeping.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 10:40:37 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Donald Aitken Subject: Re: sugar syrup In-Reply-To: <199810101013.EAA12134@fn1.freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII It is always less confusing to use the same units for all ingredients of a mixture. For example, there is never any trouble understanding what is meant by "mix 200 pounds of sugar with 100 pounds of water". I find that it is hard to make the entire 200 pounds of sugar dissolve in the 100 pounds of water without heating. Usually I go with 200 pounds of sugar to 120 pounds of water for pre-winter feeding. For the actual mixing we use a quarter horsepower electric motor with an extension shaft and a sheet metal propeller to mix the syrup in a 45 gallon drum. Donald Aitken 11710-129 Street Edmonton Alberta Canada T5M 0Y7 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 10:55:38 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Dissolving Fumidil-B MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tom S says, "I find that thoroughly mixing it (Fumidil-B) with dry sugar first does the trick." I will try this as it sounds like a good idea. This past summer I told the owner of Mid-Con that I found the label very confusing. I do not have it right here, but I believe it calls for first dissolving the product in cold water...and it will not dissolve in cold water. Years ago I heard that the secret was to use warm water and have been doing so ever since without difficulty. He replied that he had not looked at the label in several years, but the water should be about 115 degrees F (46 C). He said that it would be a major task and involve the expenditure of a reasonable amount of money to get a simple change like this through the FDA! He also said that at about 150 degrees F (66 C), the temperature would start to degrade the active ingredient. Lloyd LloydSpear@email.msn.com Owner, Ross Rounds(tm) the finest in comb honey production. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 10:55:35 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Sugr Syrup MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris Slade says "The difficulty Americans experience in dissolving X pounds of sugar in Y gallons of water according to the recipe is caused by your gallons being smaller. English capacity measures are 20 fluid ounces to a pint (not your 16) and 8pints to a gallon. Somebody who is better at maths than I am will be able to tell us what the adjusted recipe should be." Of course, and do I feel stupid! I had forgot all about the imperial gallon (as we in America call it). The US gallon is 128 ounces and the imperial gallon is 160 ounces and that is a huge difference (25%). I bet this is also why I have never been able to get Nick Wallingford's ratios to work. If 112 pounds of sugar should go into 7 imperial gallons or 1,120 ounces, which is equal to 112 pounds of sugar to 8.75 US gallons. This should make about 15 gallons of sugar syrup suitable for fall feeding. Lloyd LloydSpear@email.msn.com Owner, Ross Rounds(tm) the finest in comb honey production. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 18:43:50 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Information. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am a bit behind with my mail, late nitghts rebuilding our web site, come and visit soon +ADw-beeworks.com+AD4- So I would like to make a number of points, playing catch up. Fungus growth in sugar. Last year we suffered badly with fermenting sugar and fungus in our baby nuc internal feeders, once it ferments the bees won't touch it. We heard of adding Apple Cider vinegar, so tried it this year and it works. Only problem we had to double and triple the vinegar to make it work. We now add 1 tablespoon per gallon, and the bees love it, those babies did real well this year. In Europe 'Thymol' is used as an anti fungus additive to sugar syrup, and it's used extensively. To quote the label. Dissolve 50g in .25 litres of surgical spirit, add 2 teaspoons to 4.55 litres (1 gallon) of syrup and stir well. If the solution is sealed tightly it will last indefinitely. From our stock price 100g +ACQ-7.20, 500g +ACQ-23.66 US. Another use for 'Thymol'. In Europe extensive tests are being tried against Varroa. A specially made frame with an evaporator section built in, is placed in the hive. By adding 12g Thymol twice a year May and August the author claims excellent varroa control. So I question? We add essential oils to syrup to confuse the chemical sensors of the female Varroa. If adding Thymol to syrup to prevent fungus, would the same effect be possible? Interesting? Finally. Comments on melting wax to separate the honey. My only point be careful, don't do as I did one year. Stupidly I forgot and fed heated honey to two hives and killed them with dysentery. If you need heat, then use a double boiler ie. a water jacket or even steam clean it, it seems to me that dry heat is the killer. Regards to all. +ACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKg- The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario,Canada. David Eyre. Owner. Phone (705) 326 7171 Fax (705) 325 3461 beeworks+AEA-muskoka.net www.muskoka.net/+AH4-beeworks +ACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACo- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 16:40:36 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Paul Nicholson Subject: Re: Removing honey from wax -Reply In-Reply-To: <199810091908.MAA04012@alto1.altonet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 13:16 -0400 10/9/98, Tracy Monahan wrote: >this string has hit a nerve that I have been dealing with about imported >honey. > >A friend of mine recently went to china and bought a baby. She >explained how the venders would prepare rats for sale. they would sell >the meat saperate from the guts. If these people would eat rat guts >what would they put in there honey for an extra buck. I've never eaten rat, but a rat is an animal just like a pig and we eat them. In china pig esophagus and stomach are delicacies and they really are quite good and probably lower in fat than a pork chop. Ever had a hot dog, well that's what pig stomach tasted like first time i tried it. I've spent over five weeks in China on business, many times in quite out of the way places and I've never experienced any sickness there. While kitchen hygiene is not up to Western standards, the food is fresh and it is served hot, directly from the wok to your table. So just because they eat something that grosses you out, doesn't mean their honey is unsafe. >I thought about the brood in the bag being mashed and the liquids mixed >with the honey. > >Is importated honey checked for fical matter? > > >to discuss this idea publicly hurts honey sales, imported or not. > >other countries seem to use chemicals that are forbidden in the U.S. and >we eat it any way. Whats the logic. Who are the laws portecting? > >suppers ready The Chinese countyside is very poor, and I have no trouble imagining a honey producer working in a dirt floored shack extracting his crop. I would be more concerned about this than wheter or not they are eating rat guts. Paul Paul Nicholson Electronic Imaging Systems, Inc. TEL 805 532 1068 5148 Commerce Avenue, Unit F FAX 805 532 1065 Moorpark, CA 93021 U.S.A. paul@eisusa.com http://www.eisusa.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 20:17:10 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Al Needham Subject: Re: Removing honey from wax -Reply On Fri, 9 Oct 1998 13:16:00 -0400 Tracy Monahan writes: >.......... Who are the laws protecting? Tracey: That is a good question to ask your representative(s) in Congress. They do not seem to care what is in imported honey, but they sure seem to want to get concerned about our honey (in the US that is). What is like in other places on our planet ? One often wonders about this and not only in regard to honey. I am certain that we will hear a comment from Andy. Have you ever noticed that every time our respective governments stick their nose into something, it costs us dearly one way or the other ? Al ..................................................................... <"Mailto: awneedham@juno.com" > Scituate,Massachusetts,USA The Beehive-Educational Honey Bee Site Visit The Beehive Book Shoppe http://www.xensei.com/users/alwine ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 14:26:42 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: Traceys questions about Chinese honey Hi Tracey/All Tracy, you mention your worries about chinese honey - I have mine too (my country has just unwisely as usual decided to import a few hundred tonnes of chinese honey). However one must bear in mind that Asian peoples havea fantastic understanding of life that is missing in the west. They view farming practises (I am generalising here) in a three dimensional perspective - whereas we in more western/ised countries view it more on a two dimensional perspective. We would do monoculture - the chinese not. An example is varroa - I would never like to see western honey sold in my country as it is produced in countries which are so balze about dangerous chemicals it is terrifying. I would prefer chinese honey produced by a people who have survived successfully with a high density civilisation for more than 4000 years as opposed to our chemical enhanced western one. My immune system can deal with bacteria and gunk in honey that may have a bit of brood - but my liver cannot get rid of fluvalinate, my bones will have orange lines in them from terramycin that will enable archaeologists in future times to work out exactly how many times in my life and how old I was each time I got sick. As regards your question about rats - I wonder if Chinese people would be vaguely queasy about buying things from a culture which is blatantly at war with the environment - we spend millions of dollars a year in westernized countries on poisons which cause rats, one of the most intelligent animals on the planet, to die by having their guts chewed out and haemoraging to death! I can tell you I would much rather buy something from a country which utilizes animals which use environmental 'waste' space, rather than turning those animals into biohazardous waste that kills falcons, felines, canines etc. Just some thoughs Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis 6139 South Africa Time = Honey If you are not living on the edge you are taking up too much space!! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 10:14:15 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Conni Still (Long Island)" Subject: Re: melting wax Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit To separate my cappings from any residual honey I also use the low temp oven method. However I use disposable lasagna pans to place the cappings in which makes clean up better. Of course this is not the best way since there is the danger of fire, caution must be used at all times. I am hoping a solar extractor will find its way into my holiday gift box this year. That is safe and productive.Regards, Conni Still ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 17:17:38 -0700 Reply-To: smo@abac.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Roger Sonnenberg Subject: keeping queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry for the elementary question but I'm planning to requeen in a week for the first time. In planning for unexpected contingencies, how long can I keep my 15 queens alive and well in their shipping cages? Can sugar water be used to extend that time? Thanks for your help, Roger ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 20:10:05 -0400 Reply-To: dublgully@worldnet.att.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Gaida Subject: Still Learning MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Took some advice from local old bee"havers". Learned a hard lesson. Saw a post about the same thing, just came a week or so too late. Anyway, everyone told us to let the bees clean up after you extract. They do a good job and you save some work. Sounded good. When we were done extracting, we opened our honey room window and door and left it for two days. (We extracted the supers before the goldenrod and aster flow, thinking the bees could just keep the strong stuff) Learned two hard lessons from this clean up. 1. The italian bees would rather rob than work goldenrod and aster. Once they got used to robbing, they started on each other. (The one buckfast hive we have continued to work blossoms and collect pollen.) We have a couple fields full of goldenrod and aster and I checked them each day, three times per day, and there were seldom any bees working. 2. The yellow jackets and hornets got a taste for the honey from the honey room. Then they turned on the hives. We have already put the entrance reducers on, but still didn't help. I stood and watched one hive. There were 3 hornets and 4 yellow jackets sitting on the landing. One bee came out to chase them away. The first yellow jacket got her, bit off her stomach, and flew away. The next bee succumbed to a bald faced hornet. I came right in and found the post for yellow jacket traps. Made 3 of them, not knowing what they are eating, besides bees, I used a turkey hot dog piece in one, I used some tuna in nylon net in one, and I used a rotten pear in one. The bees were clustering in the hive and the yellow jackets were walking up and taking the outermost bees. We have one hive that had moved up to the second box. The bottom box was empty of all brood and honey. Just a little pollen left. We had just done a bee collection so we added these bees to the top over a newspaper, after we reversed the boxes. Is this a normal yellow jacket/hornet undertaking (no pun intended). Was it our mistake to open the honey room. (Still will never do it again) Why had the bees already moved up to the second box. About a month ago, they were in the bottom box with the second box full of honey. Fall is just beginning, we usually don't have to reverse boxes til spring. Help, please. Loving these bees, Judy in Kentucky, USA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 19:54:31 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Paul Nicholson Subject: Re: Still Learning [raiding] Comments: To: dublgully@worldnet.att.net In-Reply-To: <199810110145.SAA09300@alto1.altonet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 20:10 -0400 10/10/98, David Gaida wrote: [snip] > Anyway, everyone told us to let the bees clean up after you extract. [snip] >1. The italian bees would rather rob than work goldenrod and aster. Once >they got used to robbing, they started on each other. [snip] >2. The yellow jackets and hornets got a taste for the honey from the >honey >room. Then they turned on the hives. [snip] This is exactly what happened to me. I had one strong hive and a hive that had a failing queen. I requeened the weak hive and started a split from my strong hive for a friend. Everything appeared to be fine and I decided to extract three boxes from the strong hive. I let the bees clean up the frames, then just as you experienced, they started raiding my two weak hives, followed by marauding wasps and yellow jackets. I lost the split and my weak hive. I got away with letting the bees clean the frames when I had only one hive but I've learned my lesson now. 1) Don't let the bees clean the frames outside the hive, just put them back on the hives. 2) Use entrance reducers on weak hives, they make it much easier to defend against marauders. 3) Use a single brood box, or even better a nuc, with a weak hive or split. My weak hive consisted of two 10 inch brood boxes and a 6 inch super. The bees could not defend it. Paul ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 21:07:44 -0500 Reply-To: boby@lakecountry.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Young Subject: varroa appearance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does it seem to anyone else out there to be a strange coincidence varroa would show up in this country and be spread throughout just before the africanized bee was forecast to move here? There are no feral bees in my area at all now. Bob Lindale,TX ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 19:35:30 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Paul Nicholson Subject: Fall requeen In-Reply-To: <199810101017.DAA07769@alto1.altonet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi, A week ago I opened my hive to discover that the bees were building about a dozen or so queen cells. Today the queen cells are capped and there is no evidence of new larvae or the queen, so I thinks she's gone. I have seen no drones and I'm concerned that the new queen will have trouble finding mates at this time of year. I live in coastal southern California where the bees can pretty much forage throughout the year. How should I manage this situation? Paul ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 07:22:01 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: varroa appearance Comments: To: boby@lakecountry.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This will all be explained in an upcoming episode of the X Files. Bill T Bath, ME > Does it seem to anyone else out there to be a strange coincidence varroa > would show up in this country and be spread throughout just before the > africanized bee was forecast to move here? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 09:15:01 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: DGraham Subject: Irish Varroa: Advice given by a panel of international experts. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Excerpt from The Scottish Bee Keeper October, 1998 Vol.75 No.10. Irish Varroa by Archie Ferguson. Advice given by a panel of experts at a beekeeping course in Ireland. "Ignore the internet! On this the panel was unanimous, the reason being that any idiot has access to it and every idiot adds his ha'penny worth of nonesense so that it becomes very difficult to sift the wheat from the chaff." The experts (beekeepers) hailed from Belgium, England, Wales, and New Mexico. Yes! Well! !N3 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 16:50:20 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Timothy Rich Subject: Buying bee hives from a retiring beekeeper. MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable A local beekeeper is getting rid of about 25 hives. Next year would be = my second year of bee keeping, and I would like to expand. Any thoughts = on the amount of hives that are o.k. for a hobbyist and any pointers = about purchasing hives from another bee keeper. =20 Tim Rich=20 (Bee Keeper for my sons Samuel and Jon) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 18:26:57 +0100 Reply-To: jbeetsma@wxs.nl Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: joop beetsma Subject: Absconding MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Slaughtering colonies or harvesting honey? Recently I visited a few traditional beekeepers in SE Burkina Faso. They use horizontal bark cylinders covered with woven straw and place them on thick tree branches at 3 m hight. They harvest the honey in April (main flow) and September. After the bees are smoked out of the hive, the beekeepers cut the main part of the combs containing sealed honey, but always leave some food for the returning bees. They experience little or no absconding, even after the harvest. In this area the honey flow is rich mainly during the dry season (on average 25 kg per colony per year). In some other South African countries traditional beekeepers slaughter the colonies completely knowing or assuming? that the colony will abscond anyway. I am eager to know from traditional beekeepers working with Apis mellifera in other South African and in South American countries (1) how they proceed with harvesting, (2) which percentage of the harvested colonies absconds and (3) what the flow conditions are (how many kg on average do you obtain per year and per colony). Si vous voulez, je peux poser cette question en francais. Si Usted quiere, puedo repetir esta pregunta en espanol. Joop Beetsma ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 12:13:36 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: keeping queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Sorry for the elementary question but I'm planning to requeen in a week for >the first time. In planning for unexpected contingencies, how long can I >keep my 15 queens alive and well in their shipping cages? Can sugar water >be used to extend that time? I ordered queens this spring and since I hadn't assembled all of the equipment in time, I had to keep several queens for about 2 months. The candy lasted long enough, so I just put a drop or two of water on the screen every day. In a few cages, a number of the queens attendants died, so I took the cages to the apiary, and very carefully, removed the dead workers and pushed a few young bees in. Seemed to work. But I would say 2 months is about the maximum and a safer time would be up to one month. My two cents, Ian Watson real estate agent, baritone, gardener Beekeeper---> 11 colonies ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 08:29:11 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: Fall requeen In-Reply-To: <199810111113.EAA06991@mx1.thegrid.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 07:35 PM 10/10/98 -0700, you wrote: >A week ago I opened my hive to discover that the bees were building about a >dozen or so queen cells. Today the queen cells are capped and there is no >evidence of new larvae or the queen, so I thinks she's gone. I have seen no >drones and I'm concerned that the new queen will have trouble finding mates >at this time of year. Maybe you don't have any in your hive but in your area there are enough drones to mate with your queen if you have a few good days when she is ready to mate. >I live in coastal southern California where the bees can pretty much forage >throughout the year. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 12:35:30 PDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: charisse m spada Subject: BEE'S AND BLOOD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, my name is Marie. I have a science question that I can't find the = answer to. I'm in the 5th grade. Do bee's have blood? if they don't = what do they have? Could someone please help. Thank you. marie spada C.Spada@prodigy.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 15:10:49 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: BEE'S AND BLOOD In-Reply-To: <199810112145.OAA21781@mx1.thegrid.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:35 PM 10/11/98 -0700, you wrote: >Hi, my name is Marie. I have a science question that I can't find the = >answer to. I'm in the 5th grade. Do bee's have blood? if they don't = >what do they have? Could someone please help. Thank you. Yep they have blood, but its not red so its hard to see if you pull their wings off or something. They also have blood sucking mites some call Vampire mites around this time of year. Sometimes you can see them riding on the bees back like a little flat witch. They are almost red in color. Thanks for asking, Bye, the OLd Drone ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 19:29:39 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: BEE'S AND BLOOD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Marie Bees don't have blood like ours and other higher animals, but they have a substance called Haemolymph which carries nutrients from its stomach (alimentary canal) to various parts of the bees body. That is a very simple answer to your question, but if you look at your public library, they may have a copy of "The Hive and The Honey Bee", which has one chapter specifically devoted to an in-depth study of the bees anatomy. Ian Watson real estate agent, baritone, gardener Beekeeper---> 11 colonies >Hi, my name is Marie. I have a science question that I can't find the = >answer to. I'm in the 5th grade. Do bee's have blood? if they don't = >what do they have? Could someone please help. Thank you. > >marie spada >C.Spada@prodigy.net > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 19:28:26 PDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ernest Gregoire Subject: Very bright Orange pollen? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hello Gang, My bees are bringing in some of the brightest orange colored pollen that I have ever seen. The killing frost was here last week for 5 days each morning. I live near some highland marsh and quessed that this is the only place where the bees could be getting this bright pollen from. Does anyone know which plant it comes from? de AA1IK, Time the accursed enemy of man, cursed by youth for going to slow Ernie Gregoire and by the old for going to fast. R.R. 1, Box 221, South Rd. Beekeeper Canaan, NH. 03741 Fly fisher & tier, Promise Keeper. E-mail address: gregoire@endor.com packet address: AA1IK@WA1WOK.FN43FE.NH.USA.NA ------------------------------------- 10/11/98 19:28:26 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 11:19:04 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Walter T. Weller" Subject: Re: 2 queen myster(ies) ... >Is this a new trend in monarchies? The latest social bee fad? Is every >hive >suppose to have two queens and we have been doing it wrong? Our southern imported red fire-ants have recently developed strains or races that have multiple queens. Reports of interconnected nests covering as much as 20 acres (!) have been in the press lately. If this related hymenopteran species can do that, why not bees too? Of course, fire-ants have been for years under some selection pressure from humans trying to eliminate them, nest by nest, with various poisons. Walter Weller Post Office Box 270 Wakefield, Louisiana 70784 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 23:43:20 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "John M. Thorp" Subject: Re: Top Bar Hive (from johnwilk@wici.com) . > It seems that with proper top bar rotation mites should be kept down > quite well. Do you do that and if so is this a sound observation? I do not understand the connection between rotating the combs and mite control? John John in Homestead- -Jesus Christ is the only answer- -"Truth stands the test of time; lies are soon exposed." - Prov. 12:19 What are the food requirements for mites when they first hatch ? It was more of a question about the rotation. ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 01:19:52 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Green Subject: Re: BEE'S AND BLOOD Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/11/98 5:54:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time, C.SPADA@PRODIGY.NET writes: > Hi, my name is Marie. I have a science question that I can't find the = > answer to. I'm in the 5th grade. Do bee's have blood? if they don't = > what do they have? Could someone please help. Thank you. Yes they do, Marie. It is called hemolymph and is not colored red like ours. There is an interesting site for bee biology at: http://koning.ecsu.ctstateu.edu/Plants_Human/bees/bees.html I don't recall anything about bee blood on it, but it tells a lot about bees. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html The Pollination Home Page: http://www.pollinator.com Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 18:02:11 +1300 Reply-To: nickw@beekeeping.co.nz Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Subject: Re: BEE'S AND BLOOD In-Reply-To: <199810112144.KAA27611@axil.wave.co.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Do bee's have blood? if they don't = > what do they have? Bees have what is called hemolymph. It isn't blood, and they don't have a heart/circulation system to pump it around. But it is a fluid of sorts. And it isn't red! (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- nickw@beekeeping.co.nz (/ NZ Beekeeping http://www.beekeeping.co.nz 'Order' files from an autoresponder... NZ Bkpg: Research, Universities? Email to: resuniv@beekeeping.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 10:01:03 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: IBRA Subject: (Fwd) Mail from WWW MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Can anyone help Julia (please reply direct to her and NOT to this list): ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 23:15:20 -0700 From: Steven LeVan Reply-to: sgl111@psu.edu Subject: Mail from WWW I have a question. My grandmother has a pear tree behind her house and there are two distinct types of bees feasting on the pears. We live in northwestern PA near Erie. The first type of bee is a ground dwelling type of yellow jacket looking bee. The second type does not resemble any bee I have ever seen before. It is about an inch to an inch and a half long. It has a yellow abdomen that is very bright in color and is rougly an quarter to a half inch wide. The head, legs and wings appear red. Does anyone there have any idea what type of bee or related insect this could be? If so, please let me know. It is a really strange looking bee. Thanks, Julia LeVan ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 06:36:46 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "HELP" Subject: Re: Dissolving Fumidil-B Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I was taught to make up syrup feed with fumidil in the following way. Make the syrup by dissolving sugar in water as usual, and leave the syrup to settle in the buckets, so that the solution is still. Then add the dose of fumidil by sprinkling the powder on the surface, but do not stir. (If you stir at this stage, the grains will coagulate, and will not be taken with the feed.) Leave for 15 to 30 minutes. Each grain will absorb moisture. Then the bucketful can be stirred and the grains will be evenly distributed, and will be taken by the bees. Whether this is a true solution of fumidil in water, or a suspension, I never took the time to find out. The advantage however is that it works with cold syrup, so you are least likely to damage the antibiotic. Regards Matthew J Allan ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 07:27:14 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Lipscomb, Al" Subject: Re: varroa appearance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Nothing strange about it. With more foreign agriculture products being brought into this country the pests from these same countries will come right along with them. I would not doubt that is how we got the African Hive Bettle here in Florida. A number of years ago I worked for a company that imported the plant saps used to make laytex for gloves. The stories about the strange bugs found around the factory were constant. If giant walking sticks can make it in with no problems, then little mites should be expected. > Does it seem to anyone else out there to be a strange coincidence varroa > would show up in this country and be spread throughout just before the > africanized bee was forecast to move here? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 08:59:33 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Green Subject: Re: (Fwd) Mail from WWW Comments: To: sgl111@email.psu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/12/98 6:06:04 AM Eastern Daylight Time, MunnPA@CARDIFF.AC.UK writes: > I have a question. My grandmother has a pear tree behind > her house and there are two distinct types of bees feasting on the > pears. We live in northwestern PA near Erie. The first type of bee is > a ground dwelling type of yellow jacket looking bee. The second type > does not resemble any bee I have ever seen before. It is about an inch > to an inch and a half long. It has a yellow abdomen that is very bright > in color and is rougly an quarter to a half inch wide. The head, legs > and wings appear red. Does anyone there have any idea what type of bee > or related insect this could be? If so, please let me know. It is a > really strange looking bee. Thanks, Julia LeVan From your description, I'd say the smaller ones are german yellow jackets, which are real pests. They were imported accidently to the USA, and are like the starlings of the insect world, because they have no natural enemies here, and they overpopulate. They even are a threat to native yellow jackets. Yellow jackets are NOT bees, and I wish people would stop mixing them up. There was a story on CBS the other day, where a medical doctor told about a YJ stinging incident where a child died, and he constantly interchanged the words yellow jackets and bees. That's pretty poor science and it makes our job as pollination beekeepers harder, because it feeds public paranoia. We have enough vandalism now! Yellow jackets catch insects throughout the summer, and feed them to their brood. The brood secretes sugar for the adults, as they consume the insects. At this point in life, they are highly beneficial, as pest control agents. They do not work on flowers as do bees. In early fall, they stop rearing brood and the sugar from the brood stops. The adults must have sugar to survive (their wing muscles use a LOT of sugar), so they seek out sources. At this time, you will find many adults on goldenrod, which has a lot of nectar. Of course goldenrod is falsely blamed for people's allergies, so they start mowing all goldenrod as soon as it blooms. Indeed some communities have ordinances requiring this. Goldenrod pollen is heavy and sticky, so the only way you could get it into your nasal passages would be to stick a flower up your nose; ragweed pollen is the culprit; it can float for tens of miles in the air. Yellow jackets will seek out sugar in any place they can find it, including garbage cans, dumpsters, your picnic, and even your sweet soda. They really get bad if a lot of goldenrod is mowed off, leaving hundreds of thousands of hungry, sugar crazed yellow jackets. A little science would go a long ways to solving the problems that ignorant people create. Yellow jackets, and other wasps and hornets are often seen on fruit, where they suck the juices. Honeybees cannot bite through the skins of fruit and only can come where other insects have already broken the skin. Bees prefer flowers to fruit juice, and if there are flowers available, will not come to fruit. They do, sometimes join the yellow jackets in hot, dry falls, where the flowers are absent or not yielding nectar. Your description of the second insects sounds like possibly cicada killers, though I have not particularly noticed them feeding on fruit. They could be some other kind of wasps or hornets, but are not bees. Here is a site with some more info on wasps and bees including pics: http://www.conservation.state.mo.us/nathis/insects/mowasp/wasps.html Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html The Pollination Home Page: http://www.pollinator.com Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 08:54:18 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Musashi Subject: Re: BEE'S AND BLOOD Marie, I'll add a little more information about bee's blood besides what others have already said. Yes, bees have blood, and it is called haemolymph, like they have said. The reason human's blood is red is that it is iron-based. Insect blood is "green" because instead of iron-based, it is copper-based. The haemolymph bathes the body tissues, washing around them, and it circulates from the back to the front by way of a structure that pumps it, like a heart. It is a long organ, like a blood vessel with valves, and it pumps the blood from the back to the front where it comes out over the insect's brain, and then washes back through the body cavity. There are organs where it will pick up oxygen and nutrients and eliminate wastes as it circulates from the front to the back and then to the front again. The insect's "heart" runs along the top of the insect's back. It is not in the center of the body. So instead of having blood vessels, the blood just washes through the body cavity. They have a heart (but not like ours) and no blood vessels. Layne Westover College Station, Texas ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 20:36:15 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: unman Subject: Odp: Re: sugar syrup MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >I find that it is hard to make the entire 200 pounds of sugar dissolve in >the 100 pounds of water without heating. Usually I go with 200 pounds of >sugar to 120 pounds of water for pre-winter feeding. >>Donald Aitken >11710-129 Street >Edmonton Alberta Canada >T5M 0Y7 > You'r right. Without heating you can only dissolve 300 pounds of sugar to 200 pounds of water (3:2). We do it in this manner but only to stop laying eggs (with large portions 1 - 15 September). To intensify laying eggs we do it as 1:1 (with small portions). Andrzej, Poland ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 19:44:56 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: Joops questions about traditional beekeeping Hi Joop/All Joop you mention that in Burkino Faso you saw how people raided beehives by smoking the bees out and taking out the honey. This is pretty much standard practise from there down to us here on the tip of african (another 6000km south) - as far as traditional keepers go. Africa is a funny place - it is climatically confused on the whole - hence making approximations of honey yield per hive is difficult. In my area, the eastern cape, the rural Xhosa people raid beehives to the point of disaster. A beehive will not have been in place for more than a few months and blat it is munched. Given that spaces for beehives vary from as little as a shoe box to as great as things like cupboards, small caves, old cars and so on there is great varyation in the size and yeild. Given that over much of southern africa rainfall can vary by as much as 60% from year to year (say a good year followed by an el-nino) the yeild per year is great. As far as traditional beekeepers on the net go - I can say quite safely that no traditional beekeeper will ever be able to get enough money together to pay for an internet site in africa - the profit margins on smelly smokey honey that is badly filtered are just not good enough. At the moment we have some people (a Xhosa gang) here in my area that have a rather novel way of extracting honey. They find a beehive and kill the bees with Doom, a local spray organophos poison. They then take out the honey and sell it on the streets. This sort of honey would never make it into our first world sector here as it looks and smells horrible - but to an under educated person from a poor background a nice chunk of honey is worth it. (As an aside I had an interesting experience once trying to calm down a beehive that one of these informal beekeepers had tried to silence with insect repellant! The bees went mad and stung him all the way to hospital, as well as killing a few dogs etc). In South Africa, Zimbabwe, Zambia, Botswana and Namibia there are established commercial beekeeping enterprises that use modern technology and produce decent crops. In SA and Zim it is best developed. Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis 6139 South Africa Time = Honey If you are not living on the edge you are taking up too much space!! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 19:23:40 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: Vinegar and wax production Comments: To: beeworks@MUSKOKA.NET Hi All/David David, I noticed you mentioned that you added apple cider vinegar to your feeders to reduce fungus growth in them and that the hives did really well. This is very interesting - I wonder to what extent the bees were using the acetic acid and other organic acids in the vinegar as a feedstock. I know that that would only be a few milliliters per liter/drops per cup but it would represent a useful amount of organic acids that may be of use in synthesizing waxes and so on - I don't know the biochemistry there, but if you noticed an increase in wax production it would be interesting to look further. The other thing is of course that apple cider vinegar is usually produced by fermenting apples to cider, then allowing the cider's alcohol content to be converted to acetic acid. The bonus here, over say spirit vinegar is that the cider vinegar still has all it's vitamins and such like left in it - some of these like biotin (produced by some yeast) should be of use in wax production. This is an interesting question. Another thing that may be worth trying to aid preservation of the stuff would be lactic acid - this is a powerful inhibitor of yeast and bacterial growth - something the yeast themselves use to preserve bee bread. Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis 6139 South Africa Time = Honey If you are not living on the edge you are taking up too much space!! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 20:25:03 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: unman Subject: Odp: Information - not to apply! - you forget to add. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sowly, slowly! David Eyre wrote: >We >heard of adding Apple Cider vinegar, so tried it this year and it works. >Only problem we had to double and triple the vinegar to make it work. We now >add 1 tablespoon per gallon, and the bees love it, those babies did real >well this year. You listened to very inaccuratly. 10% vinegar (not Apple Cider vinegar) we used in portion 1ccm a 1kg of sugar in syrup (1:1). It can help with some sicks of brood and also with chalk brood. > In Europe 'Thymol' is used as an anti fungus additive to sugar >syrup, and it's used extensively. As above. Thymol we used to, but crystalline and not in sugar but under last frame (farest from entrance) in shallow, very small dish covered wit net, 10 g/hive for 3 weeks (often for all Winter). 100 % of chalk brood disappears but for long - nobody knows. Andrzej, Poland ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 17:52:04 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Christopher Slade Subject: Re: Separating wax from honey Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit The most enjoyable way of doing this is to wash the honey from the wax with water. Save the honey-water and turn it into mead. A pound of wax turned into added value products is worth much more than the honey it held. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 17:22:08 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Juno User Subject: Bees feeding on fallen apples Someone told me that they have seen honey bees feeding on overripe apples that have fallen on the ground. Have anyone witnessed this? wahkon@juno.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 19:18:36 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Christopher Slade Subject: Re: Varroa appearance Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Bob Young has a nasty suspicious mind and I would be inclined to follow his thinking but for the fact that Africanised bees were widely reported to be more tolerant to varroa mites than the stock of European origin with which both American continents had been populated. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 19:18:35 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Christopher Slade Subject: Hive moving equipment for the ageing Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Pat Franklin should get a younger and fitter friend or apprentice and exchange experience for muscle. How often and why is it necessary to move a hive? Rethink your methods. With a bad arm can supers be lifted off for removal or for access to the brood box? Try a long hive so everything is all at a level and can be worked from a wheelchair if necessary. As my granny used to say, "Its no use getting old if you don't get crafty" Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 19:18:39 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Christopher Slade Subject: Re: bees and blood Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Bees have haemolymph which acts in much the same way as mammalian haemoglobin or blood. The biggest difference is that it doesn't carry oxygen as blood does and is not contained in tubes. Blood pressure in bees helps keep the body in shape, which is another difference to us. It carries food and waste products around the body as needed which is similar. I don't know how much detail is needed but this is a start. Come back if you need more. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 19:18:38 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Christopher Slade Subject: Re: Buying hives from a retiring beekeeper Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit A friend if mine bought this season 21 hives of bees plus sheds and other equipment from a retiring beekeeper. They appeared to be healthy and were free from varroa. He paid about three quarters of the agreed amount with the rest to be paid at the end of the season when the crop was sold. We had an Association apiary meeting with an expert from the Ministry of Agriculture showing us how to examine colonies for foul brood. On hive 16 she found a suspicious cell, on hive 17, 2 or 3 more. The frames with the suspicious cells were removed for laboratory examination . A standstill order was immediately (there and then) issued. Another inspector made a thorough examination a few days later and found a third hive with AFB (which had been confirmed by the laboratory). All three were burnt and buried. My friend had been intending to take his bees to the heather (calluna vulgaris) for a late crop but was unable to do so. He claimed from Bee Disease Insurance Ltd with whom he was covered through Association membership for loss of the bees, comb and frames. As his hive numbers were then slightly more than he had insured for his claim was reduced proportionately. He got in tough with the gentleman who had sold him the hives and they agreed that they were all square financially. The moral is check for disease before, during and after the transaction; don't pay all the money at once; if your beekeeping association doesn't offer disease insurance find one that does. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 18:51:36 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Luis Rommel Beutelspacher Subject: Foamy honey !!!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My brother has told me a very strange story... He had a jar with high moisture honey stored for about 3 months, and recently he opened the jar and started pouring it into a new (clean) container. As soon as the honey touched the new jar, it began to foam and continued for as long as he poured the honey, and even when he stoped!. After pouring half of the new container, it also raised until it filled the jar and leaked all over the table for about 20 minutes. He also poured some directly on the table and it was very foamy also. Do any of you know what could be the reason for this? fermentation? ......................................................... Luis Rommel Beutelspacher Maya Honey S.A. de C.V. miel@finred.com.mx ......................................................... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 23:00:44 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Ralph W. Harrison" Subject: Western CT Beekeepers Association Meeting Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit The Western Ct Beekeepers Association is pleased to announce that Dr. Amber Rose, author of "Bees In Balance" will be the speaker at our October meeting. Dr. Rose is a well known authority on the conbination of bee venom therapy, acupuncture, and psychology. Dr. Rose has given lectures around the world and was a recent speaker at E.A.S. Dr. Rose is the Founder and Director of Starpoint Enterprises and free clinic for Bee Venom Therapy in Bethesda, Maryland. The Western CT Beekeepers Associaton meets at the Fairfield County Agriculture Center, 67 Stony Hill Road (Route 6), Bethel, CT. The Agriculture Center is one mile from Interstate 84 and very easy to get to. For further information or directions call Ralph Harrison at 203-878-0462. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 23:40:29 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: Vinegar and wax production MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am wondering if it matters which type of vinegar you use. I didn't have any apple cider vinegar, so I used malt vinegar since I didn't have time to go shopping. Is there a difference? Ian Watson ian@gardener.com real estate agent, baritone, gardener Beekeeper---> 11 colonies >David, I noticed you mentioned that you added apple cider vinegar to >your feeders to reduce fungus growth in them and that the hives did >really well. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 02:49:10 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dennis Scott Subject: Re: Foamy honey !!!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: Luis Rommel Beutelspacher To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Date: Monday, October 12, 1998 10:43 PM Subject: Foamy honey !!!! >My brother has told me a very strange story... > >He had a jar with high moisture honey stored for about 3 months, and >recently he opened the jar and started pouring it into a new (clean) >container. As soon as the honey touched the new jar, it began to foam. > >......................................................... > Luis Rommel Beutelspacher > Maya Honey S.A. de C.V. > miel@finred.com.mx >......................................................... > It sounds like he experienced the wonder of carbonation from the process of fermentation. If the high moisture honey was held in a sealed jar that is what happen. He was lucky ,the jar did not explode before he opened it. The foaming is from the release of CO2 at atmospheric pressure. I imagine the honey would taste bad, if not you may get a buzz from consuming it, no pun intended. D. Scott ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 06:11:39 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Richard A. Trevino, Jr." Subject: Re: Vinegar and wax production MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ian wrote: that since he did not have apple cider vinegar, he used malt vinegar. Is there a difference? David wrote: that adding apple cider vinegar to your feeders to reduce fungus growth in them and that the hives did really well. My question is what is the ratio for mixing apple cider vinegar, malt vinegar or vinegar to your sugar water? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 14:37:00 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Midnitebee Subject: Best Bee? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings.. The "wizard" has a new article called "The Best Bee?" http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee note:scroll down to my home page and you will see a "reminder" button..register your e-mail address and you will be notified about new changes on my web site. Herb Holly-B Apiary P.O.Box 26 Wells,Maine 04090-0026 http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 13:12:51 -0400 Reply-To: dublgully@worldnet.att.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Gaida Subject: Thank you MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Do you have a minute? Let me sing your praises. We had our local bee meeting last nite. I shared oodles of information that I have found on Bee-L. Wonderful discussion. And plenty of "you're kidding" and (can you believe it) there was even quite a bit of note taking! We all came away with the type of education you want from a bee group. And it is because you are generous enough to share your knowledge. Our group is too small to afford to bring speakers in, Bee-L vicariously permits us to do so. Most of our beekeepers are new enough to want the best of knowledge, and not looking for shortcuts or cheap ways out. A few have taken the old beekeeper's hints about how to save a dime, but have learned to watch their hives closely, and have been able to catch a problem before it has become a disaster. Dave and I had the only real disaster in the club, the yellow jacket/bee robbing episode. We lost 4 hives and feel awful about it. But absolutely everyone in the club now knows to NEVER let bees clean up YOUR MESS. Anyway, Thank You, each of you, for sharing your knowledge, time and time again. It might feel as if you have said something before, and you may have, but the eyes reading it this time will still appreciate it. Good advice is never repeated too often. Loving these bees, Judy in Kentucky, USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 11:45:54 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Al Needham Subject: Beekeeping Videos For General Information; " The BeeHive " Web Site is now offering Beekeeping Videos: #An Introduction To Beekeeping #The Art Of Requeening #Two For One Splits & Divides #Package Bees The Easy Way #Pests And Medications For more detailed information go directly to: http://www.xensei.com/users/alwine/beevideos.htm Al ..................................................................... <"Mailto: awneedham@juno.com" > Scituate,Massachusetts,USA The Beehive-Educational Honey Bee Site Check Our Beekeeping Books & Videos http://www.xensei.com/users/alwine ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 11:03:14 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Anthony M Jadczak Subject: oak honey Last week I visited Tony Bachelder, Maine's sole commercial beekeeper who doesn't move bees south for the winter. Tony operates 600 hives and was still extracting this year's El Nino crop. He had a 100 gallon tank of a particular honey that he requested I taste. I tasted the honey and he asked, "What does it taste like?" I have never tasted any honey like it and commented that it had a nut taste somewhat like walnuts. The honey is amber, thick and somewhat oily. He told me that it was produced on Stricked Mtn during the last week of August-1st week of September when acorns were falling from the trees. He and another hobby beekeeper on the mountain produced about a super/hive of this unique honey. Tony said that during this period the weather was warm and fine threadlike strands of sap hung from the trees like cobwebs and made vehicles parked under the trees sticky. He said that the bees were all over the oak trees, apparently working the twigs where the acorns had fallen from. This honey isn't made from honeydew. I have never heard of such a honey. Anyone on the list ever experienced "acorn honey"? In 1997 it was the year of korn honey...1998 the year of Acorn honey! Despite the ice storm, dry summer, and wet spring, the El Nino honey crop has been one of the best in a decade. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 16:09:16 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: Foamy honey Comments: To: miel@finred.com.mx Greets All/Luis Luis, you mention a honey which foamed on conatact with whatever it was being poured into/onto. If the honey fermented in a closed bottle it would have become saturated with carbon dioxide gas - similar to carbonated coke or juices. When you remove the cap and pour it the carbon dioxide comes out of solution in the water which is now under lower pressure and forms little bubbles. This is just the same as when one pours coke, champaigne etc into a glass and it foams over. The cause of the fermentation is probably a bacteria with a high sugar tolerance - if you ate the honey you may be able to geuss what it is by the symptoms of the resulting food poisoning - but that's the difficult route. I would throw it away - down the toilet. Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis 6139 South Africa Time = Honey If you are not living on the edge you are taking up too much space!! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 10:30:23 -0600 Reply-To: fltdeck1@ix.netcom.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Matthew Subject: 120 year old observation hive? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Someone called me on Sunday (10/10/98) with a truly unusual bee-hive removal. Their house was constructed around 1880 with an 18" stone exterior. The inisde of their house was all stucco. Halfway up the stairwell was a 2' by 1' glass pane which opened up into the wall. Bees resided behing the glass pane and went about their business as if no-one could see in. The homeowner's had owned the house for 25 years and had never opened the beehive, but simply let them co-exist with them. No obvious damage was ever done to the inside of the house since it was constructed of fir timbers surrounded by stucco. When they hired a crew to replace their roof, the bees took exception to this idea and sent the noisy 'tresspassers' scurrying - which is why the homeowners called me to remove the bees. From what I've gathered from the home-owners, they think the hive was built into the house for the tenants to retrieve honey whenever the need surfaced, simply by opening the glass door. There used to be a door at both ends of the stairway, which they suspect was used to trap the bees from entering the remainder of the house. Some other interesting information on the house is that it used to be a stagecoach stop when there were no other houses within 10 miles or so (according to someone who stopped in to visit the house whom lived in there from 1910-1917). No information on the beehive was discussed with this person when they visited. Today the house resides on the outskirts of South-Denver and is surrounded by housing developments and office buildings. Upon opening the glass, I found the brood directly behind the glass, so I'll assume the bees kept warm from the house. The hive was split between fir 2x4's which had 1" holes drilled between them (for? bee-access?). One side of the hive contained the brood - which ran probably four feet up & down, by what looked to be 18" from timber to timber. The other side of the window was 100% capped honey (same dimmensions). This honeycomb was SO hard it literally cracked like concrete when enough force was applied. I was able to remove comb in both directions around 12-15" up & down from the top & bottom of the window, but the old comb appeared to continue 'forever' up the wall. The bottom appeared to stop within arm's reach from the window. What I found MOST curious of this hive was that is was only 3"- 4" in width, stopping at the ouside Fir boards (followed by 18" or so of stone). If the builders wanted to keep bees for honey, why would they make the hive so shallow at the window? These bees DID build most of their comb surrounding the window, but I'm wondering if this was planned by the hive-builders. If so, the builder knew something about bees as the outside entrance ended within 2" of the inside window ....as bees prefer to build as close to the entrance as possible (the entrance was a well-constructed 1" hole drilled through the framing). Coincidence or did someone captalize on some bees which invaded their stone house? For those whom are curious how I kept the bees from entering the house, I draped large drop-cloths on the stairwell and used my bee-vacuum to remove the majority. Matthew Westall in Castle Rock, CO ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 23:32:51 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ken Hoare Subject: RE OAK HONEY MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lloyd May I throw in my two-penny (or I guess two dimes) worth as you know my address - Oaks Road. In the field within yards of my garden is an English Oak which the arboriculturist from the local council dated as 170 years old. Within sight there are four others all of about the same age. In a good season I have had neighbours tell me I have got a swarm in the tree nearest home, it really does buzz, even I have searched hard to see if a feral colony lives in a cavity within its trunk. But no, it is my colonies which are located nearby that are collecting honeydew and this can be easily seen and felt on the leaves. I doubt whether I could market, 'Pure Oak Honey', as like all English honey it is a 'little bit of this, and a little bit of that', which when put together makes it the BEST IN THE WORLD. Ken ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 20:38:16 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: Re: Dissolving Fumidil-B Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Tom S says, "I find that thoroughly mixing it (Fumidil-B) with dry sugar >first does the trick." Yes, I have done that also and it does work. However, the method that works best and easiest for me is to whip the fumagillin with warm water in a blender. Fill the blender container less than half full of water to allow for the foaming. I can do a big bottle of fumagillin in four blenders of water. I put two bottles in a 1000 litre tank of sugar syrup after it cools. I never see a trace of any after the foam clears, so I assume it is completely dispersed. It goes almost TOO easy. It only takes fifteen minutes to dissolve two hundred dollars worth :) It takes considerably longer to dissolve the 800 kg. of sugar (about $700 worth this fall). I am very impressed with the strength of the low geared agitator motors on milk tanks. They are able to mix a large paddle through a thick sugar slurry. In fact, on a couple of occasions the points on my milk tank (that I use for milk) stuck and all the milk froze solid. Both times I was awakened in the night by the noise of the tank lid clanging. The stirrer was still going around scraping in a hole in the milk ice. Regards, Stan ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 22:48:37 -0400 Reply-To: vcoppola@froggernet.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Re: Traceys questions about Chinese honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Garth wrote: > > Hi Tracey/All > > Tracy, you mention your worries about chinese honey - I have mine too > (my country has just unwisely as usual decided to import a few > hundred tonnes of chinese honey). > > However one must bear in mind that Asian peoples havea fantastic > understanding of life that is missing in the west. They view farming > practises (I am generalising here) in a three dimensional perspective > - whereas we in more western/ised countries view it more on a two > dimensional perspective. We would do monoculture - the chinese not. > > An example is varroa - I would never like to see western honey sold > in my country as it is produced in countries which are so balze about > dangerous chemicals it is terrifying. I would prefer chinese honey > produced by a people who have survived successfully > with a high density civilisation for more than 4000 years as opposed > to our chemical enhanced western one. Three dimensional view, mono or multi crop, 4000 yr. old culture aside, the fact remains that the quality of Chinese hive products have earned a poor reputation. By now just about everyone in the industry is aware that there has been an on going problem with their honey being cut with corn or rice syrup and being turned back at several borders. I once spoke to a wax buyer, one who regularly purchases 20,000 lb + lots of beeswax, who told me they found so much stuff in Chinese wax they no longer consider it for purchase. The stuff he mentioned included scrap metal evidently included to increase weight. As for chemical use, the Chinese also have varroa mites and use chemicals to control them. I realize that there are many out there that do not share my veiws on chemical regulation, but I for one would rather get my foods from places that have controls on chemical use and a culture that places value on food purity, the enviroment, and the workers. Vince ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 23:46:39 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Alden P. Marshall" Subject: Re: 2 queen myster(ies) ... Bob in Albany writes there have been two laying queens in that observation hive since they were at the Apple Festival months ago. Is this a new trend in monarchies? Bob, don't know why this phenomena is not mentioned more in bee literature. I't is not exactly a common occurrence but on occasion mother and daughter will work side by side for awhile and eventually mother disappears. I'm not sure if she is done in by the workers or her daughter. Perhaps someone else knows the answer to this part of the story. I would only guess that it is probably the workers as they pretty much control everything else. Regards, Alden Marshall B-Line Apiaries Hudson, NH 03051 Busybee9@Juno.com tel. 603-883-6764 ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 22:09:46 -0800 Reply-To: beeman@gci.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tom Elliott Organization: Home Subject: Re: 2 queen myster(ies) ... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alden P. Marshall wrote: > Bob, don't know why this phenomena is not mentioned more in bee > literature. I't is not exactly a common occurrence but on occasion mother > and daughter will work side by side for awhile and eventually mother > disappears. A good friend of mine once had two unrelated queens - both marked - survive the winter here in the Anchorage, Alaska area. We found them accidently when inspecting the hive in the spring. My buddy has a picture of the two queens on one frame. As we watched the two passed right beside one another ignoring each other. The previous summer the hive had been a two queen colony. It appeared that the two got so accustomed to their respective odors that they each learned to ignore the other. Is THAT common? I doubt it. But even laying workers will eventually accept a queen if she is caged among them long enough. I learned that from experience. It takes several weeks though and is probably never apt to be useful. Tom -- "Test everything. Hold on to the good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21) Tom Elliott Chugiak, Alaska U.S.A. beeman@gci.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 22:39:21 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: oak honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +AD4- list ever experienced +ACI-acorn honey+ACI-? In 1997 it was the year of korn +AD4- honey...1998 the year of Acorn honey+ACE- +AD4- Despite the ice storm, dry summer, and wet spring, the El Nino honey +AD4- crop has been one of the best in a decade. As an aside to Tony's remarks I have a concern. With the massive flows we've had all summer our wintering hives don't appear as large as usual. We are putting our hives to bed and noticed the clusters are smaller than normal. I think the massive flows have plugged the hives more than normal and prevented the usual amout of brood production. So I wonder if they will winter well? Lots of stores though. Anyone else with smaller clusters? +ACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKg- The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario,Canada. David Eyre. Owner. Phone (705) 326 7171 Fax (705) 325 3461 beeworks+AEA-muskoka.net www.muskoka.net/+AH4-beeworks +ACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACo- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 22:30:25 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Vinegar and wax production MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: Richard A. Trevino, Jr. +ADw-ratrev+AEA-connecti.com+AD4- To: BEE-L+AEA-CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU +ADw-BEE-L+AEA-CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU+AD4- Date: October 13, 1998 7:10 AM Subject: Re: Vinegar and wax production +AD4-Ian wrote: that since he did not have apple cider vinegar, he used malt +AD4-vinegar. Is there a difference? +AD4- +AD4-David wrote: that adding apple cider vinegar to your feeders to reduce +AD4-fungus growth in them and that the hives did really well. +AD4- +AD4- +AD4-My question is what is the ratio for mixing apple cider vinegar, malt +AD4-vinegar or vinegar to your sugar water? We add approx 1 tablespoon per Gallon, primarily to prevent fermentation but there appears to be more to this than first thought. Personally, we have on occasion added more without any bad effects and the bees still took it down. Not very scientific I must admit, but sometimes during a busy season it's easy to make mistakes. +ACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKg- The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario,Canada. David Eyre. Owner. Phone (705) 326 7171 Fax (705) 325 3461 beeworks+AEA-muskoka.net www.muskoka.net/+AH4-beeworks +ACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACo- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 09:03:17 -0400 Reply-To: mpalmer@together.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Palmer Organization: French Hill Apiaries Subject: 2-queen mystery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I once united 2- two story colonies in the fall. I placed one on top of the other, and fed the colony for winter.That colony produced a medium super of soft maple, at the end of a warm March. Both queens were laying. I see colonies with two queens every season. I kept track one year during re-queening. When finding the old queen, I shook all the bees in the colony through an excluder. I checked 100 this way. 5 had with two queens. One year, I re-queened by killing the old queen, and introducing a new one with an introduction cage- all wire, fitting nicely between the combs. I left the corks in the hole for 3 days. I then replaced the cork with a marshmallow. In most cases, when I retrieved the cage to do this, all was calm. Bees walking on the cage happily. Queen calm etc. Every once in awhile I'd pull a cage and it would be covered with tightly clinging bees, obviously enraged at this recent intruder. Every one of those colonies had another "old" queen. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 16:03:37 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Bees and the Law MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am giving a talk on Beekeeping and the law for our chapter of the MSBA and have some good material, but would appreciate any additional information, especially laws on beekeeping as a nuisance. Bill T Bath, ME -- If there is a zz before clinic.net, remove it to reply directly. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 09:25:10 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Daniel D. Dempsey" Subject: Re: Separating Wax from Honey In-Reply-To: <199810091502.IAA20239@tco1.tco.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > The question recently came up as to how to separate wax from >honey. Another method that I have heard used is to gently heat the >crushed wax/honey mixture. They will then separate out. Allow to >cool, and remove wax from the top. Be careful though, and only apply >enough heat to melt the wax, and not ruin the honey! > Anyone having used this method, please let us know, because I >have a small amount of honey that I plan to try this with. If it >doesnt work, I'd like to know before I ruin the honey! Thanks all! > >Scott Wax melts at about 160F TOO hot for my honey. Try to hold it at no more than 115F and let the honey drain from the wax. Dan Daniel D. Dempsey P. O. Box 5 Red Bluff,CA 96080-0005 ddempsey@tco.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 09:16:18 -0400 Reply-To: mpalmer@together.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Palmer Organization: French Hill Apiaries Subject: vinegar in feed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I feed high fructose corn syrup. I've never seen it get sour or moldy. At 11.55 lbs to the gallon, maybe its too thick to ferment. No mixing. I've fed it now for 15 years to thousands of colonies. Do well on it. I imagine you could get fumidil to mix with it. Can't say, I don't use it. Keep unused portion sealed and it will be good next season. It does crystalize, but melts easily with heating. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 08:27:25 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Oberle Subject: Re: Removing honey from wax -Reply MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >this string has hit a nerve that I have been dealing with about imported >honey. > >A friend of mine recently went to china and bought a baby. She >explained how the venders would prepare rats for sale. they would sell >the meat saperate from the guts. If these people would eat rat guts >what would they put in there honey for an extra buck. > >I thought about the brood in the bag being mashed and the liquids mixed >with the honey. > >Is importated honey checked for fical matter? > > >to discuss this idea publicly hurts honey sales, imported or not. > >other countries seem to use chemicals that are forbidden in the U.S. and >we eat it any way. Whats the logic. Who are the laws portecting? While I can't disagree with you on your point about the adulteration of honey by importers. And the idea of eating rat guts isnt appetizing to me. It is impossible to not crush bees in the process of harvesting honey. What you have understand is that bee's dont eat the same things that rats eat and all honey is filtered very finely. Secondly honey doesnt mix will with other semi-liquids such as bee parts so the filtration removes almost all of it. I hope that this clears up your questions about that. As for who are they protecting? The Communist Chinese have broken our polical campaign finance laws (along with Clinton and Gore). Who knows what influence they have purchased with the USDA which comes under the purvue of the Clinton administration as a result. Thanks Michael Oberle NTS1@ix.netcom.com Network Technical Services Inc. Minnesota The place where absolutely nothing is allowed. > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 09:07:54 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Midnitebee Subject: Cook College course MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings.. Cook College (Rutgers) N.J., is giving a course on "Successful Mite Control Procedures" Saturday,11-7-98. Complete details and application located here: http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee Herb Holly-B Apiary P.O.Box 26 Wells,Maine 04090-0026 http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 02:45:26 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Linda Peabody Subject: Re: Comb Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit thanks for your information.. just heard this and wanted to know if you might want to contact some of these people.. the Iran.. store people here in my town.. want comb honey.. the use it in there religon. i think or for something.. they want to pay a good price for it.. it has to be clean is all the say.. not sure what they really want.. i sell bee pollen .. so not into honey. it self.. if you want me to get name for you i will.. Linda Peabody Porterville, Ca. -----Original Message----- From: Excerpts from BEE-L To: Bestofbee@systronix.net Date: Tuesday, October 13, 1998 7:56 PM Subject: Comb Honey Must Read --- From: Ron Bogansky To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Every year I always produce some comb honey. I usually sell it in one pound wide mouth jars with liquid honey poured over top. Some refer to this as "chunk honey". I sell a fair amount at a good price. I also place a few pieces in containers to sell as cut comb although they don't sell nearly as well. A friend of mine produces about 5000 Ross Rounds every year. I usually would buy some from him for resale. He keeps trying to get me to produce more comb honey and less extracted. This year I thought I would try and I also thought I would share my results. First of all let me say that I do not claim to be an expert on comb honey production. Many of you produce far more than I ever will, and like everything in beekeeping you learn as you go and what works for one may not work for someone else. This year, in my area, the honey flow was not great for comb honey. It started early, then tended to be off and on throughout the season. One day they would be working hard the next there was nothing coming in. There are few different systems on the market for comb honey. I decided against the basswood sections because of the all the assembly work. This left cut comb, Ross Round (RR), and Hogg Cassette (HC). I have already been producing cut comb and the only thing I do that may be different is I produce 8 or 9 frames in a 10 frame super. I install permanent side boards on the inside of the supers with a 3/8 inch bee space. This allows the bees better movement on the side wall and all frames are drawn and filled. When using 10 frames the two outside frames don't always get filled. You can correct this by just moving these two frames to the center to be finished but it requires one more trip to the hive. Although I use both shallow and medium supers with equal success, in a year like this one the bottom of the frames were not always filled. With the mediums you can cut those empty or uncapped cells out and still have a piece of comb that fills the tall one pound jar. This is still a pretty simple way to produce good comb honey. As for the Ross Round and the Hogg Cassette, there were pluses and minuses to both. I had actually purchased the HC in a previous year but did not get to try it. I purchased a few more this year along with some RR. During the winter the folks at Betterbee had a GREAT sale on assembled RR supers. I hope they repeat it again next year. The initial cost of both systems are about the same. The bees seemed to work both equally well and, in spite of the season, I have really nice sections from both. After the initial purchase the price to refill/reuse RR is about half of the HC. You only purchase rings, covers and foundation. However, it took me about thirty minutes to refill a RR super. The HC refill comes complete and installs in about a minute. If time is essential or you are paying someone, then HC may be cost effective. The HC each super yields 40 twelve ounce sections that a cover is placed over. The RR super yields 32 eight ounce sections that have two covers . I have found that I can charge a slightly higher price for the larger section. It doesn't seem the make much difference to the customers at our farm market. Most of them have never had comb honey and usually opt for the least expensive item. One advantage I had with the RR was I was able to take out a few finished frames early before harvesting the entire crop. This was important this year because, I then had a constant supply and did not have to buy any. If you produce enough to carry you from harvest to harvest this is not important. Individual sections cannot be removed from the HC. While the HC produces more and larger sections per super I found one, IMHO, major flaw. If the bees propolize or attach any burr comb to the sections they are difficult to clean. The owner of the company suggests scraping the sections with a dull putty knife. If you do this you can get most, but not all, off. He further suggests that customers should realize that this is something that was in the hive with the bees and it is almost a selling point. This is true if I am doing the selling, but if it is being sold by someone else or on a store shelf, the customer may touch it and react the same way as they would to a sticky honey jar. I have found that most customers need quite a bite of education when it comes to "products from the hive". The RR section is completely sealed and always feels clean so this is not an issue. I will continue to make cut comb and have decided to expand and go with Ross Rounds. One other reason for this is the owner of the company, Lloyd Spear. I have spoken to him and found him to be very helpful in offering suggestions and management tips. He contributes to this list often and also wrote a great article that was published in Bee Culture (May ? 98). Comb honey offers challenges in management and other areas, but there two big advantages. The supers are always small, easy on the back, and there is no extracting chores. You can usually get help packaging comb honey from those who otherwise run from the extractor. Ron Bogansky Kutztown, PA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 22:24:06 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Vinegar and wax production Comments: To: Garth MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: Garth +ADw-g95c6713+AEA-warthog.ru.ac.za+AD4- To: BEE-L+AEA-CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU +ADw-BEE-L+AEA-CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU+AD4AOw- beeworks+AEA-MUSKOKA.NET +ADw-beeworks+AEA-MUSKOKA.NET+AD4- Date: October 12, 1998 1:26 PM Subject: Re: Vinegar and wax production +AD4-This is very interesting - I wonder to what extent the bees were +AD4-using the acetic acid and other organic acids in the vinegar as a +AD4-feedstock. I know that that would only be a few milliliters per +AD4-liter/drops per cup but it would represent a useful amount of organic +AD4-acids that may be of use in synthesizing waxes and so on - I don't +AD4-know the biochemistry there, but if you noticed an increase in wax +AD4-production it would be interesting to look further. +AD4- +AD4-The other thing is of course that apple cider vinegar is usually +AD4-produced by fermenting apples to cider, then allowing the cider's +AD4-alcohol content to be converted to acetic acid. Now here's a point I was unaware of. We use Acetic acid as a specific fumigator against Nosema spores, perhaps there is more to the anti-fermentation use of Apple cider vinegar than meets the eye. How about a natural preventative to Nosema? Incidently, I didn't notice an increase in Wax production, just a feeling of better 'well being'. Certainly any wax drawn seemed a trifle faster, but I put that down to an increased natural nectar flow. Seems there is still a lot we don't know about bees+ACE- +ACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKg- The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario,Canada. David Eyre. Owner. Phone (705) 326 7171 Fax (705) 325 3461 beeworks+AEA-muskoka.net www.muskoka.net/+AH4-beeworks +ACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACoAKgAqACo- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 16:29:28 +0100 Reply-To: jbeetsma@wxs.nl Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: joop beetsma Subject: Joops questions about traditional beekeeping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Garth, Thank you for your quick response to my questions. In my introduction I wanted to emphasize that these traditional beekeepers do not "raide" their colonies; they keep the brood nest intact and leave some honey for the returning colony. They use their punctionally made during a few years. Therefore I consider them as craftmen, skilled workmen. I forgot to mention the measures of the hive: length 100cm, diameter 40 cm: contents: 125 liters. I am aware that the climate in your continent varies enormously. I did not expect that traditional beekeepers would respond to my questions. In stead I hope that researchers or extension officers have obtained some experience. By the way the honey I tasted was dark because of the plant sources, sometimes had some smoky taste, but had been well filtered. Best regards, Joop ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 11:59:45 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Fall clusters (from Ted Fischer) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT This message was originally submitted by tvf@UMICH.EDU to the BEE-L list at CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU. It has been edited to improve formatting. David Eyre wrote: > As an aside to Tony's remarks I have a concern. With the massive flows we've > had all summer our wintering hives don't appear as large as usual. > We are putting our hives to bed and noticed the clusters are smaller > than normal. I think the massive flows have plugged the hives more than > normal and prevented the usual amout of brood production. > So I wonder if they will winter well? Lots of stores though. > Anyone else with smaller clusters? I have the opposite observation. Many of my colonies still have not gotten small enough to fit inside the hive, even with night temperatures in the 40'sF. I agree with you, though, that they surely have enough stores. Because I have to harvest in mid-August due to varroa control, the enormous fall flow this year has all gone to stores. Maybe the cluster has to sit outside because they don't have extra cells to crawl into, since they are all filled with honey. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 09:13:28 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Who's watching the store? In-Reply-To: <199810141337.GAA25126@mx1.thegrid.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:27 AM 10/13/98 -0500, you wrote: >>this string has hit a nerve that I have been dealing with about imported >>honey. >we eat it any way. Whats the logic. Who are the laws portecting? >all of it. I hope that this clears up your questions about that. >As for who are they protecting? The Communist Chinese have broken our >polical campaign finance laws (along with Clinton and Gore). Who knows what >influence they have purchased with the USDA which comes under the purvue of >the Clinton administration as a result. You got that right. Its called "fair trade", they sell us honey, we sell them political influence and plans for rockets. We will have to wait to see who got the best deal. I hate it, and I am for throwing the bums in jail, others of the different bent would slam them on the back of the hand and move on. I do have to remember what one of our old bosses here in California said about the subject of lobbying which went something like this, "if you can't take their money, drink their booze, use their women and then vote against them you don't belong in politics". Its too bad this generation of Democrats have forgotten their old hero who said that, and Willie don't drink. It does seem that todays political heros have forgotten about the "vote" against them part and may have passed on some of our national secrets that could come back in a ballistic form. Back on earth we US beekeepers have created a real problem, a demand for honey that we can not supply even with our barns full of it. This increased demand is supplied by producers in countries that have much lower costs then we do in the US so we are forced into competition with those who can always sell at our lowest price or under us. We have changed the consumer protection laws to require honey produced outside the US to be identified on the honey label, as far as I know it has made no difference, as consumers are less concerned with the area of production then they are other differences such as price and floral source. Strange not long ago in the 50's the government paid us to export honey and we did. Even stranger is some of our solutions to insuring the future of the honey producers, including promoting generic honey which is mostly imported honey, re-starting the honey price support program that what ever price is set it becomes both the bottom world price and top price for US honey. That is OK for those who would ship honey here but a bummer for our own producers who already are suffering because of low prices and high cost. How much honey does it take to buy a new truck? I guess we will be able to clear the decks of honey in storage, but without import controls I don't see any lasting benefit other then just another generation of beekeepers dependent on the government. ttul, the OLd Drone http://beenet.com (c)Permission is given to copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 13:51:29 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Watt Subject: Supercedures MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Aaron, Reposted with apologies. We have read the thread on supercedure with great interest. Here is an exceptional example. Friends of ours run one of the few large honey farms here in Scotland. One spring when father and son were clipping and marking Queens both claimed to have found her. After a brief row both looked each others frame and sure enough there was a marked, clipped and laying Queen. As differant colours are used by them for each year it was obvious the length of time this had been going on. The young Queen had been there for some eighteen months! In our own experience with Melifera Melifera the same bee as the above, we find that there is "often" supercedure during the heather season. (late July through mid September) It is only via marked Queens that the result is noticed via the record card and lack of paint the next spring. Regards Pete and Moira. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 12:44:22 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: oak honey In-Reply-To: <199810141255.FAA16256@mx1.thegrid.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:39 PM 10/13/98 -0400, you wrote: >As an aside to Tony's remarks I have a concern. With the massive flows we've >had all summer our wintering hives don't appear as large as usual. >We are putting our hives to bed and noticed the clusters are smaller >than normal. I think the massive flows have plugged the hives more than >normal and prevented the usual amout of brood production. Hi Friends, First back to the Oak Honey, even in this area of mild winters oak, fir, willow, or any honeydew can be a problem with carrying the bees through a long period with little or no brood rearing. Some of this may be because of the quality of the honey itself or the lack of pollen during these good extra floral flows. In some cases even small amounts of honeydew can cause the bees gastro intestinal problems if they can not fly and relieve themselves. Here in California our first spring pollen comes early enough to make up for some of this, but I am sure in areas that the bees do not get out early but start brooding about the same time with what pollen and honey is stored in the hive, that these hives do have problems and end up an unexplained deadout with lots of stored honey. Because of our open winters here gastro intestinal problems seldom are seen except as expressed in yellow rain. The only spotting inside or outside the hive I have seen is in bees from out of state that were already in trouble and in one newbee who fed his bees prune juice and other juices for his own personal reasons. >So I wonder if they will winter well? Lots of stores though. Anyone else with smaller clusters? In my own efforts to perfect the benign neglect methodology of keeping bees I have found the single most detrimental effect is from leaving too much honey on them for what ever reason. Yes they look good and its nice to heft a heavy hive in the fall but as you report there can be less young bees in the dormant cluster and it seems to me that the efforts the bees make to keep warm are made more difficult when the hives is blocked out with honey that normally would have been extracted. Every area is different as every year seems also but the most productive commercial beekeepers today appear to be the ones who feed the most sugar syrup and protein supplements. Admittedly this goes against my own benign neglect system but I have found that some compromise may be necessary if success is the goal even in keeping bees. So my advise is take off the honey even if you are going to keep it for feed at a later date, and feed the bees to increase brood rearing during the times they will respond to that diets, does no good to feed them in the dead of winter and may do harm, but in the fall and early spring it can make a big difference. All feeding should include some kind of protein as well as sugar un less one or the other is available naturally. ttul, the OLd Drone http://beenet.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 14:49:50 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garry Libby Subject: MA BeeKeepers Meeting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit OCTOBER 24,1998 The Massachusetts Beekeepers Assn.will hold It's 1998 Fall meeting on Saturday October 24th at 9:00AM. Registration starts at 8:45AM. The meeting will be held in Coolidge Hall at the Topsfield Fairgrounds, Rt1 in Topsfield. This will be an all day meeting with a catered lunch. This years Speakers will be Dr James Tew and Dr Marla Spivek. Jim Tew will speak on new methods of controlling varroa and tracheal mites. Marla Spivak will speak on raising queens on a small scale. Members are encouraged to bring honey to enter in the State honey show.Vendors will be on hand displaying products,and the usual raffles will be held which seem to get bigger and better each year.For further information please call Ted Shylovsky at 508-443-7195. Garry Libby Boston,USA LibBEE@email msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 10:36:49 -0400 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Fall clusters MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Eyre wrote: > As an aside to Tony's remarks I have a concern. With the massive flows we've > had all summer our wintering hives don't appear as large as usual. > We are putting our hives to bed and noticed the clusters are smaller > than normal. I think the massive flows have plugged the hives more than > normal and prevented the usual amout of brood production. > So I wonder if they will winter well? Lots of stores though. > Anyone else with smaller clusters? I have the opposite observation. Many of my colonies still have not gotten small enough to fit inside the hive, even with night temperatures in the 40'sF. I agree with you, though, that they surely have enough stores. Because I have to harvest in mid-August due to varroa control, the enormous fall flow this year has all gone to stores. Maybe the cluster has to sit outside because they don't have extra cells to crawl into, since they are all filled with honey. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 18:30:04 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Advice given by a panel of international experts Comments: cc: greenber@WSUHUB.UC.TWSU.EDU, cveldink@ctc.edu, joschmid@u.arizona.edu, Dewsbury@psych.ufl.edu, barthell@aix1.ucok.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" As some of you on BEE-L might suspect, I could not help but note the following comment on BEE-L (Excerpt from The Scottish Bee Keeper October, 1998 Vol.75 No.10): *********** >"Ignore the internet! On this the panel was unanimous, the reason being >that any idiot has access to it and every idiot adds his ha'penny worth >of nonsense so that it becomes very difficult to sift the wheat from >the chaff." >The experts (beekeepers) hailed from Belgium, England, Wales, and New >Mexico. *********** Some years ago I recognized the power of the Internet with respect to how rapidly information could be transmitted and wondered, "Are scientists [and others] ready for democracy?" By now those of you who have subscribed to BEE-L for long must recognize the value that one can receive by attending to input from around the world that appears on that particular network. A newcomer can have a problem, and an expert can point the direction to a ready source of information. Repeatedly, for example, we have had concerns raised about allergic reactions to bee stings. Fortunately, Justin Schmidt published a chapter in THE HIVE AND THE HONEY BEE, one which every beekeeper and medical person should read. When that question arises (as it does repeatedly), those of us in the know can respond immediately and refer the questioner to his chapter. Another quite different example: When I first fathomed the extent of the problem of varroa infestation in the United States, I broadcasted a request for input on when varroa mites first appeared in the various states. That permitted publication of the following article: 1996 Wenner, A.M. and W.W. Bushing. Varroa mite spread in the United States. Bee Culture. 124:341-343. No, the "experts" who would unanimous insist that one should ignore the Internet apparently have some deep seated concern other than that expressed in the brief message we received (as given above). In the past, for example, the scientific community has operated under an oppressive umbrella consisting of anonymous referees. That is, each time we who have done experiments must submit our manuscript to a journal. The "Gatekeepers," as they have become known, then can pass judgement on whether or not the new "truth" should appear in print. That is all well and good. Such a process keeps a lot of unsubstantiated material out of the scientific literature. However, manuscripts (however poor they might be) that support existing belief systems can get rushed into print, while manuscripts that contain information at variance with what the establishment wants to believe (as expressed in the initial item, above) can be resounding rejected. So, folks, do not be discouraged. Any question asked in sincerity is not a "stupid" question. Yes, sometimes we see questions for which answers exist in the most elementary books about beekeeping. However, the beginner might not know about such books. And that is what all the fun is about with the Internet. I recently found a 1930s (or earlier) folk recipe for Nosema treatment in a novel I read and posted the relevant quotation on BEE-L. That brief insertation spawned several other contributions about what had worked or had not worked for others in this day and age. Were those comments by "idiots?" Hardly. Those who responded had firsthand experience with the problem. No, insisting that one should shun the Internet, to me, is somewhat like insisting that beekeepers should not exchange ideas with one another and that they should not attend local beekeeper meetings. We all live in somewhat of a "pool of ignorance," whether we like it or note. Do not be discouraged by what those "experts" apparently agreed upon unamimously in their meeting in Scotland. Of course, some of you might also suspect my motives in this matter. In brief, one example might suffice. Tom Seeley ended his "review" of our Columbia University Press book (ANATOMY OF A CONTROVERSY) with the expression: "Reader beware." He clearly did not like what he read and did not want others to be exposed to the "heresy." Those in other scientific fields, however, apparently recognized the substance of our book and wrote rave reviews about the content of our book. Another point deserves mention. Too often those in science defer to the "leaders" in their field and do not themselves critically examine published evidence. In short, those who wish to keep the status quo intact have little tolerance for the free expression of ideas. It is, in fact, that intolerance that leads to controversy in science. I summarized that problem in a review published a year ago, as follows: 1997 Wenner, A.M. The role of controversy in animal behavior. Pages 3-37 in Greenberg, C. and E. Tobach (eds). Comparative Psychology of Invertebrates:The Field and Laboratory Study of Insect Behavior. Garland Publishing, New York. Anyhow, I have perhaps gone on too long. On the other hand, some have complained in the past that this network has had too little substantive input. Perhaps the above contribution counters that emphasis on the practical problems beekeepers face. So, don't be discouraged. The Internet has far more value than limitations, I feel. Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 963-8508 (home phone) 967 Garcia Road (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 ************************************************************************ * "...in the drift of the years I by and by found out that a Consensus * * examines a new [idea] with its feelings rather oftener than with its * * mind. You know, yourself, that is so. Do those people examine with * * feelings that are friendly to evidence? You know they don't." * * * * Mark Twain * ************************************************************************ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 21:17:21 -0400 Reply-To: vcoppola@froggernet.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Re: oak honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Eyre wrote: > As an aside to Tony's remarks I have a concern. With the massive flows we've > had all summer our wintering hives don't appear as large as usual. > We are putting our hives to bed and noticed the clusters are smaller > than normal. I think the massive flows have plugged the hives more than > normal and prevented the usual amout of brood production. > So I wonder if they will winter well? Lots of stores though. > Anyone else with smaller clusters? Hi David, The massive flows have not reduced the size of our clusters here in NY. You may have a problem with HTM or nosema. Some samples to the lab may prove profitable although it too late for treatment now.