========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 22:40:59 -0800 Reply-To: beeman@gci.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tom Elliott Organization: Home Subject: Re: oak honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Andy Nachbaur wrote: > " . . .So my advise is take off the honey even if you are going to keep it for > feed at a later date, and feed the bees to increase brood rearing during > the times they will respond to that diets, does no good to feed them in the > dead of winter and may do harm, . . ." Andy, The best results I have generally seen with wintering in coastal Alaska include intermittent winter feeing of sugar syrup and honey/yeast patties. It still has not been truely successful, but better than giving them "enough" to get through the winter. We had one fellow who used the canadian four packs and claimed success. But his success was lots of bees in early march. I can get lots of bees in early march any time I please, but getting a queen to start laying takes more than waiting till spring. The best wintered colony I have seen up here was kept a couple years by a beekeeper who feed a couple gallong of syrup every month to bees in heavily insulated colonies. He had enough pollen in the combs to have more bees in april than I have in march. I am adapting his system to my needs. I am trickle feeding now with temps around freezing. The bees don't seem to be taking much, but they now have frames of brood that was not present a month ago, before I began my "trickle feeding". My results may be of interest only to David Eyre, outside of the Anchorage area. But, I wanted to point out that like all hard and fast rules this "no winter feeding" may vary with climate. Of course we are outside the normal range of the honeybee. Tom -- "Test everything. Hold on to the good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21) Tom Elliott Chugiak, Alaska U.S.A. beeman@gci.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 20:41:41 -1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Frank & Marian Zajac Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Any bee keeper out there on Hawaii ? I'm on Maui looking for any kind of group or association. Thanks Frank ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 10:59:40 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Madeleine Pym Subject: Re: Menthol discussions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On the subject of Menthol, one of my colonies succumbed to acarine (tracheal mites) this year. My first experience of this ever. As I had a new queen only a week or two old in the hive and she was laying well, I did not want to destroy them. So I decided I would try a remedy given to my father earlier this year by Dan Deasey, an 87 year old Irish beekeeper of great repute. It is basically the same as described in earlier postings - the method of adding it to sugar feed. His recipe required far less menthol, but I decided to stick with the recipe as is given for preventing mould from growing on the syrup. I am afraid I still tend to feel more is better at times. Dan Deasey told my father it was an old remedy for acarine, and very effective. It seemed the perfect opportunity to try it out. Results so far are exterememy promising, they 'look' like they have hawled themselves back from the brink, but I have not had time to do another test yet. What I did was take as much of their own stores away and feed as much syrup plus thymol as I could so that (in theory) they will be eating this feed throughout the winter, and not just at the time I fed them. The whole hive smelt strongly of menthol so it is obviously a good way of getting the vapour into the hive atmosphere. As I say it is too early to tell yet, and next Spring will be the day of reckoning. I shall let you all know my results then. Madeleine Pym ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 21:00:02 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mike Zifchock Subject: Re: Bees feeding on fallen apples Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Someone told me that they have seen honey bees feeding on overripe apples that have fallen on the ground. Have anyone witnessed this? wahkon@juno.com I see many honey bees as well as yellow jackets feeding on the dropped apples in my orchard. We have had several frosts and there isn't much in the way of flowering plants left. Mike Z ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 10:46:45 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: HFCS - what is it's ph Hi All/ Michael Michael - you mention that you feed HFCS and have no problems with fermentation and mold. I know a little about the production of this product - but not enough. I know that HFCS is usually produced by an enzymatic degradation of corn, at a number of very big factories in the American Midwest. (there are some big plants elsewhere in the planet but I think these are the largest). Theoretically the enzymes converting the corn to syrup must have an optimum ph - I would geuss that it would be in the range of maybe pH 5 - 6 on the high side, probably lower. So that would mean that HFCS probably has a ph that inhibits growth - a reason some people may have noticed bees being healthier on it. Anybody able to take the ph of HFCS? Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis 6139 South Africa Time = Honey If you are not living on the edge you are taking up too much space!! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 10:56:45 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Greetings Comments: To: jbeetsma@WXS.NL Hi Joop Thanks for the reply. I think my reply must have missed your orignal question slightly about traditional beekeeping in africa. There are a number of areas where traditional beekeepers operate with the aid of extension officers to produce marketable honey. In Zimbabwe around Harare and neighbouring rural areas the ex-government apiculturist - Mike Schmolke - operates white a successful rural beekeeping concern. He has taught people how to produce honey with top bar hives, and then also how to grade it and such. He goes around and buys the stuff from them, then has a proccessing plant in Harare where he cleasn it up, grades it and so on. This results in quite a lot of cash transfer into the rural economy. These beekeepers do not however smoke the bees right out of the hive. In Kenya there is also quite a strong rural beekeeping industry, as with countries like Uganda and so on. In my area when people raid wild hives, or hives they have in boxes it usually results in the bees absconding - but withing two or three weeks a new swarm will have moved into the hive. The older men who raid the hives know how to leave a small piece of comb for the bees, but not always. The younger generation has forgotten or does not care. This is sad as in many african cultures the bees are seen as being representatives of the ancestors - when people stop showing respect for their ancestors something is wrong. Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis 6139 South Africa Time = Honey If you are not living on the edge you are taking up too much space!! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 10:48:15 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Madeleine Pym Subject: Re: Advice given by a panel of international experts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Adrian et al, On the subject of the useful purpose of the internet and the comments made at Gormanston, may I add my two penneth'. I was also there at Gormanston and attended the discussion of varroa which was set up rather impromptually, as a response to the recent discovery of varroa in Sligo. The panel was made up of 'practical' beekeepers, which is my main point. Yes, a member of the panel did say to take no notice of advice given on the internet, and I did wonder whether he was familiar with the BEE-L, or merely basing his 'knowledge' on experience or rumour of other information services relating to other topics, where possibly the 'informational' content might be in question. For example, one might not want to trust sources of information from the internet that purport to give advice on how to treat a serious human medical condition, not knowing whether someone who claims to be a Doctor, or 'expert' really is, or, in the case of someone with a similar experience, whether they truly do have the said experience. You would be better off going to a doctor, or someone you know. As a generalisation perhaps we would not disagree. However, I too have had my doubts about some of the anecdotal information that has appeared on certain bee-related internet groups, and this could be illustrated by the example given by the contributor who recently recounted there experience of 'robbing' as a consequence of leaving the honey room door open for the bees to clean up. It was obvious to me what the results would be of this practise, yet I have heard people recommend this sort of practise on the internet. But here I must point out something of importance... I have heard just the same sort of advice given by members down at my local bee club. It is not just the internet we need beware of. It is just like when I went to live in Cornwall many years ago. The first 'local' to pass by told me I was planting my potatoes quite wrongly. I adapted my method to his. The second 'local' then came through and said what a mess I was making and that I would never get a crop that way, and asked if I would like to see how it should really be done. He showed me a completely different method. And so on... Each was absolutely certain that only his method would work. It is thus with beekeeping too. We each favour a particular method and that can confuse the issue for a newbee who doesn't know how to tell the difference between 'different' practises and 'bad' practises. Perhaps we should take it upon ourselves to be more vociferous if we do feel that someone is advocating a method that is obviously fraught with problems, or down right dumb. I absolutely agree on all you said Adrian in your mailing, and this is not meant to stand in opposition to anything you have said. I did hope to qualify what actually happened at Gormanston, and to assure you that it was not, in that particular instance, an 'expert' discrediting our invaluable, practical experience. The context it was stated in was one of genuine concern that Ireland not be 'seduced' by claims that amount to 'asking the priest to bless your bees, to ward off varroa', or 'putting garlic in the hive'. If you know what I mean. I think the main concern of all who were on the panel was to reinforce the 'seriousness' of the problem of varroa. Based on my own experience of how, those who didn't take 'effective' measures against the pest lost there colonies, I would endorse them on this, until such time as we are truly confident of the success of other methods. Madeleine Pym ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 13:59:10 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mike Pheysey Subject: Hefting hives How heavy should a hive be going into winter? I'm a bit worried that mine are a bit on the light side. When weighing a hive with a spring guage, do you weigh each side of the hive in turn, with the other side still resting on the hive stand and add the two weights together, or do you take the average? Also, have I left it too late for feeding? Cheers, Mike. (Bristol, UK) (PS: My bees are in BS Nationals) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 07:11:19 -0600 Reply-To: fltdeck1@ix.netcom.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Matthew Subject: Re: Bees feeding on fallen peaches MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My peach trees dropped most of their fruit before I got to them this year and I found a seveal bees eating them. They were more succulent than usual this year so I'm sure even the bees found them tasty. The trees I saw this happen were directly next to a hive. I've never seen them eat any other fruit here (apples, plums, berries, cherries, etc). Matthew Westall - Castle Rock, CO Mike Zifchock wrote: > Someone told me that they have seen honey bees feeding on overripe > apples > that have fallen on the ground. > > Have anyone witnessed this? > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 07:54:13 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Advice given by a panel of international experts In-Reply-To: <12140598105166@systronix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Ostensibly an excerpt from The Scottish Bee Keeper October,1998 Vol.75 No.10 (received via the 'net from Adrian or someone claiming to be him): >>"Ignore the internet! On this the panel was unanimous, the reason being >>that any idiot has access to it and every idiot adds his ha'penny worth >>of nonsense so that it becomes very difficult to sift the wheat from >>the chaff." Apparently From: Madeleine Pym I was also there at Gormanston and attended the discussion of varroa > which was set up rather impromptually, as a response to the recent > discovery of varroa in Sligo. > > The panel was made up of 'practical' beekeepers, which is my main point. > Yes, a member of the panel did say to take no notice of advice given on > the internet, and I did wonder whether he was familiar with the BEE-L, or > merely basing his 'knowledge' on experience or rumour of other > information services relating to other topics, where possibly the > 'informational' content might be in question. Now here we apparently have a conflict between 'The Scottish Beekeeper' and a member of our internet group who claims to be an eyewitness. From her account, it *seems* _only_ one panel member said ' to take no notice of advice given on the internet'. However, she makes no *specific* mention of agreement by others, so I am still left guessing... Language is tricky and what is not said can be as important as what is. Whom to believe? Does it matter how one hears of things? I only know anything of this matter via the internet. I have never seen 'The Scottish Beekeeper'. Should I therefore discard it? Both stories seem credible. Should I now doubt the bee press and base my beliefs on the words that come down the internet? Guess not, my evidence has been received by the 'net itself. Hmmmm. In the case of the internet, I am sure my questions will soon get answers. From whom I will never be exactly certain. One or more of the responses may contain the truth or something very close to it. I'll be able to weigh the various points of view in light of my own knowledge. If I were to query The Scottish Beekeeper and solicit comments on its response via traditional channels, it would take months if it ever happened at all. We get lots of ideas on the 'net. If we are gullible, we will soon overload and become very confused. The 'net is like a smorgasbord. Take a little of each and try it and then go back for what suits you best. It is not wise to try to eat all of everything though. It's nice to have a choice. In any case, it is wise to follow the old adage, "Don't believe anything you hear (read!) and only half of what you see". Our neighbour's quote says it best... 'Test everything. Hold onto the good'. As for robbing, it ain't a problem in my neighbourhood, and we can get away with such things. Maybe it's the climate, the time of year, how we do it, the strain of bees... I don't know. Allen --- Newsflash! Visit http://www.beekeeping.co.nz/beel.htm to search BEE-L archives the easy, easy way or to update or change your subscription options. --- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 09:55:49 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Midnitebee Subject: beekeeping events MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings.. I have a new listing for upcoming beekeeping events and courses located at the below URL http://www.cybertours.com/%7Emidnitebee/html/events.html Herb Holly-B Apiary P.O.Box 26 Wells,Maine 04090-0026 http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 15:09:37 BST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: qub Subject: Re: Advice given by a panel of international experts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Easy solution re: Material on the WWW If you read it you can decide for yourself and form a basis for discussion with others and so learn, If you ignore it then you will be ignorant of its contents and anything of value will be lost to you. :-) Philip ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 10:51:22 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: George Willy Organization: The Village Inn of East Burke Subject: Re: Pollination Contracts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To those out there presently pollinating: I am a small time beekeeper of 26 units and growing as the weather allows me to. I am hoping to start pollinating next spring comercially. I am in need of a contract or contracts that may be outthere and are presently being used. I would like to edit several contracts and have my attourney review the final copy to assure that the beekeeper, the farmer, and the bees are all protected from possible loss or contamination or misunderstandings. I know there has been discussion about contracts in the past and that there is information in the archives. I have read that material and will use some of the information in developing this contract. If you can assist me in this endevor and are presently using a contract and don't mind sharing a copy with me could you please send me a copy at either my e-mail address or by snail mail. In return I will send you back a copy of the contract after my attourney gets hold of it. Suggestions and positive critisizms are graciously accepted and appreciated. Thanks all George Willy The Village Inn of East Burke P.O. Box 186 East Burke, Vermont 05832 Devoted Husband and Father, Bee Keeper, Inn keeper, Contractor - in that order. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 10:19:22 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Musashi Subject: Re: Pollination Contracts I'm sure you will receive other replies from people more knowledgeable than I am, but my comment may be of some small value too: if I remember correctly, Eva Crane's book "Bees and Beekeeping: Science, Practice and World Resources" has some examples of wording of pollination contracts in it that might be worthwhile for you George. Layne Westover College Station, Texas ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 13:17:22 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: DGraham Subject: Irish Varroa: Advice by a panel of international experts..... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I wonder if I could clarify a couple of points? I, for a while now, have monitor around 30 bee discussion groups on the net. And I am still appalled at the amount of downright dangerous, duff, and outright lunatic advice given in a number of those groups. Quite often its the same author (or authors). But not always! Amazingly it very regularly goes unchallenged by other contributors. But the most amazing aspect is that individuals who seem to specialize in posting articles which fall into one or other of the above categories collect an adulation dispensing fan club! Sometimes it takes on the role of protector!!!! However, that said, I have to repeat here part of the information I give to friends and colleagues inquiring about the net. Yes there are, without question, a number of excellent contributors to bee newsgroups, who give not only good advice, but well thought out advice and deeply thought out at that. Indeed, watching the degree of individualization (or customizing) of advice develop, makes monitoring, even from only an educationalists point of view, a gratifying and rewarding experience. But, it has also to be said, there are, to put it bluntly a very large number of nutters on the loose on the net, and why not. And this group, as well as other bee groups, is not immune to having its fair share. One must, of course, not forget the hoaxers and downright wicked. Mind you I have to admit that I do sometimes enjoy reading the streams of what could be mistaken for pure paranoia about Federal Government secret plans to spread Varroa, undermine the USA honey trade using foreign producers, the use by the CIA, for spying, of bees fitted with cameras, the Defence Depts role in the development of killer bees, of the arrival of killer wasps, and more. There is one other point I feel I have to raise, and raise it strongly, and that is the total misunderstanding of and inappropriate response to the word "expert". Every time the word "expert" is mentioned two things happen, pandemonium breaks out, and the age old sterile battle between "craftsman" and "scientist" re-commences. It is expressed in statements such as "practice is better than theory". This conflict is not only sterile but indeed counter productive to understanding. To the craftsmen, I have to say this, not only do you use the scientific method just as much as the scientist, both of you have contributed just as much as each other to the disastrous situation beekeeping finds itself in. It seems to me that quality beekeeping is a synthesis of theory and practice one feeding back into the other. To rate one above the other is to my mind a task for the medieval theologians amongst you, or for that matter, the birds. We need each other more now than at any other time in the past. Anyway, who are the "experts"? Practicing beekeepers, some craft some science, quietly accumulating knowledge, and developing this synthesis usually over a number of years. The rest...... To attack a statement because or partly because the term expert was used is to my mind not helpful. To those of you who e-mailed me on this topic, I am unrepentant, to my mind the panel of experts advice is, in general, well founded and should be followed. Better to err on the side of safety than have your bees done in by moth balls, hydrofluoric acid, mid-winter inspections, or end up wasting your time following the Feds around with a camera....etc to name but a few. Further more I will not stick my ******* **** up my ******* **** nor visit the ducking stool. Thankyou. Regards, David Graham. !N3 -- Bye, for now! _________________________________ / \ , , _._ _ |oo| _ / \__/ \ _|||| ((/ () \)) / \ |||||/| ( ==== ) |oo| \____/ _`\ /'_ / \ / /.-' /\<>/\ `\.( () )_._ | ` / \/ \ /`'--'////) \__,-'`| |. |\/ |/\/\|"\"` | |. | \___/\___/ | |. | | | __________________________________ Posted: 10/15/98 at 18:04 BST In : Strathclyde in Scotland. Using : OUI News and Mail off-line reader. From : http://www.peaktopeak.com/ : Treat yourself : Visit to-day! __________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 10:42:43 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mason Harris Organization: SMCOE Subject: Wrights liquid smoke MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Beelings! Has anyone out there ever used Wright's Liquid Smoke in a spray bottle instead of the traditional smoker? Does it leave the honey smokey tasting? Does it hurt the bees in anyway? I recently met a commercial beekeeper who uses it in places where fire danger is high and he says it works very well. Please let me know your experience with this stuff by private e-mail as general posts may cause a riot. Thanks. -- Mason Harris, MA (\ SMCOE Educational Audiologist -{ ||| 8- smharris@ed.co.sanmateo.ca.us (/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 09:54:38 -0500 Reply-To: lawrence@the-link.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Lawrence W. Thompson" Subject: Re: Wrights liquid smoke MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit With respect to Mr. Harris' concern for riots, I, for one, would like to read ALL posts on this issue. Thanks for asking this MH. Mason Harris wrote: > Has anyone out there ever used Wright's Liquid Smoke in a spray bottle > instead of the traditional smoker?...Please let me know your experience with this >stuff by private e-mail as general posts may cause a riot. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 20:53:54 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: unman Subject: Odp: Re: Vinegar and wax production MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >My question is what is the ratio for mixing apple cider vinegar, malt >vinegar or vinegar to your sugar water? > 1ccm 10% spirit vinegar/1kg sugar (1partof water and 1 part of sugar) Andrzej ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 14:30:25 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: DGraham Subject: Irish Varroa: Advice from an international panel of experts....... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I wonder if I could clarify a couple of points? I, for a while now, have monitor around 30 bee discussion groups on the net. And I am still appalled at the amount of downright dangerous, duff, and outright lunatic advice given in a number of those groups. Quite often its the same author (or authors). But not always! Amazingly it very regularly goes unchallenged by other contributors. But the most amazing aspect is that individuals who seem to specialize in posting articles which fall into one or other of the above categories collect an adulation dispensing fan club! Sometimes it takes on the role of protector!!!! However, that said, I have to repeat here part of the information I give to friends and colleagues inquiring about the net. Yes there are, without question, a number of excellent contributors to bee newsgroups, who give not only good advice, but well thought out advice and deeply thought out at that. Indeed, watching the degree of individualization (or customizing) of advice develop, makes monitoring, even from only an educationalists point of view, a gratifying and rewarding experience. But, it has also to be said, there are, to put it bluntly a very large number of nutters on the loose on the net, and why not. And this group, as well as other bee groups, is not immune to having its fair share. One must, of course, not forget the hoaxers and downright wicked. Mind you I have to admit that I do sometimes enjoy reading the streams of what could be mistaken for pure paranoia about Federal Government secret plans to spread Varroa, undermine the USA honey trade using foreign producers, the use by the CIA, for spying, of bees fitted with cameras, the Defence Depts role in the development of killer bees, of the arrival of killer wasps, and more. There is one other point I feel I have to raise, and raise it strongly, and that is the total misunderstanding of and inappropriate response to the word "expert". Every time the word "expert" is mentioned two things happen, pandemonium breaks out, and the age old sterile battle between "craftsman" and "scientist" re-commences. It is expressed in statements such as "practice is better than theory". This conflict is not only sterile but indeed counter productive to understanding. To the craftsmen, I have to say this, not only do you use the scientific method just as much as the scientist, both of you have contributed just as much as each other to the disastrous situation beekeeping finds itself in. It seems to me that quality beekeeping is a synthesis of theory and practice one feeding back into the other. To rate one above the other is to my mind a task for the medieval theologians amongst you, or for that matter, the birds. We need each other more now than at any other time in the past. Anyway, who are the "experts"? Practicing beekeepers, some craft some science, quietly accumulating knowledge, and developing this synthesis usually over a number of years. The rest...... To attack a statement because or partly because the term expert was used is to my mind not helpful. To those of you who e-mailed me on this topic, I am unrepentant, to my mind the panel of experts advice is, in general, well founded and should be followed. Better to err on the side of safety than have your bees done in by moth balls, hydrofluoric acid, mid-winter inspections, or end up wasting your time following the Feds around with a camera....etc to name but a few. Further more I will not stick my ******* **** up my ******* **** nor visit the ducking stool. Thankyou. Regards, David Graham. !N3 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 14:33:06 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Lipscomb, Al" Subject: Re: Wrights liquid smoke MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain The question was asked: "Has anyone out there ever used Wright's Liquid Smoke in a spray bottle instead of the traditional smoker?" At a recent beekeepers conference here in Florida, the head of the bee inspectors for the state mentioned the use of such products as a way to avoid the use of actual smoke. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 15:23:36 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Sherry Medders Subject: Experts and the Net Hi Everyone, I read Bee-L and surf the net alot for beekeeping information. As the Beekeeping Guide for The Mining Co. who "claims" they have "experts" on every subject. I can tell you now. "I'm not an expert on beekeeping" and I will never claim to be. But I do try my best to gather beekeeping information and make it easier for beekeepers to fine. Is there a such thing as a beekeeping "expert', an all knowing beekeeper who has the answers to every beekeeping question? I'm afraid there is no such person as far as I can tell at this time. (If there is, I want an interview! And he/she has alot of explaining to do to the rest of you.) The point is we all have beekeeping knowledge to some degree. But experts we are not. Isn't that why many of us come here, seeking others opinions and ideas? There "is" an abundance of beekeeping information on the net. Some of it is Good and some Bad. Use it carefully and if you ever need help looking for information on the Net, let me know I'm always happy to help out if I can. Take Care All. Just thought I'd through my two cents in. :) (I'm wondering now if I will lose my job for not being an Beekeeping Expert) 8) Kind Regards, Sherry Medders beekeeping.guide@miningco.com http://beekeeping.miningco.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 12:29:00 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: Wrights liquid smoke In-Reply-To: <199810151838.LAA02780@mx1.thegrid.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 02:33 PM 10/15/98 -0400, you wrote: >The question was asked: >"Has anyone out there ever used Wright's Liquid Smoke in a spray bottle >instead of the traditional smoker?" >At a recent beekeepers conference here in Florida, the head of the bee >inspectors for the state mentioned the use of such products as a way to >avoid the use of actual smoke. I do fear replying as I am not sure what class of idiots I belong in. I am sure its not in the higher order, but since it was asked this idiot well make a reply which is nothing more then my own opinions and experiences. For most of my life the favorite method of incidental checking of a single or few hives was using smoke from the beekeepers pipe or cigarettes. As smoking become less and less popular among beekeepers looked for newer methods and did discover liquid smoke which many do use when they don't want to take the time to light a smoker and in some high fire danger areas that do not allow by law or common sense a lit bee smoker. ttul, the OLd Drone http://beenet.com (c)Permission is given to copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 21:11:07 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andreas Schuck Scheidhauer Organization: COLMENARES SUIZOS Subject: New WEB Site MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi folk, I invite you to visit my WEB site. If you like the beekeeping stuff, just click over the link. I hope you have fun. http://www.colmenaressuizos.co.cl I hope to update the site every three month. Best regards, Andreas ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 22:54:03 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Glyn Davies Subject: Bee Eggs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To Bee Biologists One particular aspect of Bee Biology (amongst many) is making me think obsessively at the moment. Eggs!! The queen attaches an egg with a form of delicate"cement". What is this glue? Is it on the end of the egg when it is laid or does the queen deposit the glue on the cell floor and then place the egg on it? Over 3 days the egg gradually leans over until it lies down. Just as well as the delicate larva would have a difficult time if it hatched from the top end of a still standing egg! The shell does not break open nor is it nibbled from inside like other insect eggs. It dissolves. Is this by some well timed enzymatic action? But the most amazing thing to me is what causes the topple. It cannot be gravity as in a queen cell the egg has to "topple" upwards. Perhaps it does in a worker cell too sometimes if the direction of topple is random. But may be it isn't. Can anyone supply or direct me to some answers. Thanks Glyn Davies , Ashburton, Devon UK ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 09:43:04 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rimantas Zujus Subject: Re: Bees feeding on fallen peaches Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-4" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Beefriends >Matthew Westall writes: > >I've never seen them eat any other fruit here (apples, plums, berries, >cherries, etc). >> Have anyone witnessed this? >> In August and especially in September, in heather blooming time, usually there is no nectar flow in area I keep my bees. Then I watch my bees attending our berries left on bushes and on soil. Those berries are as follows: plums, gooseberries, raspberries. The bees usually attend the sweetest ones at the time. Sincerelly Yours Rimantas Zujus Kaunas LITHUANIA e-mail : zujus@isag.lei.lt http://www.online.lt/indexs.htm 55 North, 24 East ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 14:36:44 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Hutton Organization: ZbeeNet computer networking for beekeepers Subject: OAK HONEY CHRS: IBMPC 2 CODEPAGE: 437 MSGID: 240:244/116 494db8c6 REPLY: 240:44/0 a78550b1 PID: FDAPX/w 1.12a UnReg(450) Hello Ken, I guess you did not see the Weather show on BBC TV the other day, I was there showing off my bees and George Jewell was the other half showing his various honeys along with the OAK HONEY, which in a good year yield a great deal of honeydew. I have eight oaks along the one hedge, where George is in the Weald of Kent on good clay there are still a few Oak woods, not quite forests but pretty near. We both put in good publicity for beekeepeing and honey. You felt you wanted to take a mouthful straight of the screen. from the garden of England peter.hutton@btinternet.com --- * Origin: Kent Beekeeper Beenet Point (240:244/116) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 20:31:58 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Buck Rut Subject: Fall shutdown MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Greetings fellow Beekeepers, This has been my first year as a beekeeper. It has been fascinating and satisfying. I am eagerly looking forward to next year. My question is this. I live in the metro St. Louis area. Most flows are over, and temps are cooling. I got into my 4 hives this evening. One hive still had some eggs and brood. The 3 others showed no eggs, and no brood. I thought the queens slowed down laying this time of year, but am concerned about finding no eggs or brood in the other 3 hives. I didnt have time to go queen searching, but all hives were queenright 2 weeks ago. Do the queens quit laying completely? Thanks for any light you are able to shed on this matter Scott Moser Moser's Apiary Cedar Hill, MO. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 14:48:28 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Hutton Organization: ZbeeNet computer networking for beekeepers Subject: oak honey CHRS: IBMPC 2 CODEPAGE: 437 MSGID: 240:244/116 494de4c5 REPLY: 240:44/0 7ce5e54b PID: FDAPX/w 1.12a UnReg(450) In reply to David Eyre's aside may I say in South England that my bees have been breeding up very late, even now there is a lot of sealed brood with night temperastures down to 4 celcius. This has made inroads into the winter stores such that I will have to do some late feeding. We never get two years in a row when things seem on an even keel. This year colonies were collecting pollen around Christmas and February was so warm, June was wet and cold. Today I saw the biggest fattest queen humble bee working away as if it was Spring when perhaps she ought to be hibernating. It has been a year when swarms have thrown swarms despite having plenty of room and foundation to draw, other swarms have collected more surplus honey than established colonies. One thing is sure beekeeping can never be boring can it ?? Regards from the Garden of England. peter.hutton@btinternet.com --- * Origin: Kent Beekeeper Beenet Point (240:244/116) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 22:24:35 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: oak honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +AD4- The massive flows have not reduced the size of our clusters here in NY. +AD4-You may have a problem with HTM or nosema. Some samples to the lab may +AD4-prove profitable although it too late for treatment now. It seems that I owe an apology, my mailer has been printing some extra letters in my postings. We are going back to Pegasus to prevent the problem. In the meantime regarding the above post. I don't have a problem with either of the suggestions. What I did notice was the queen being pushed into the bottom box much earlier than normal. We usually see the brood in two boxes right into late Sept. Whereas this year by early Sept there was only brood in the bottom box. No there isn't anything wrong with queens, before someone suggests it. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 06:32:46 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "HELP" Subject: Re: Bee Eggs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Glynn Davies asks the question as to what causes the egg to change its orientation and tip downwards over a three day period. The question is good, but I'm not sure that the premise is right. I should sit down sometime and observe what happens to eggs in the comb. Occasionally it is instructive just to check that what we have all taken for granted is in fact the case. Elbert Jaycox referred to this, citing work by Dr E J DuPraw in 1961, who concluded that the egg did not change position until about an hour before the larva is ready to emerge from the shell. I look forward to reading what others have observed. In the meantime, I have just had an experimental nucleus hive built for a university which incorporates Jenter-type cages built into the comb, accessible from the back without disturbing the small colony, specifically for examining eggs, while knowing exactly how old the eggs are. With any luck, I may be able to get some feedback from the researchers. Matthew J Allan Manager, Thornes of Windsor European Editor, Bee Biz ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 22:23:23 +0300 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jan Tempelman Organization: Home Subject: Re: Irish Varroa: Advice from an international panel of experts....... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Irish Varroa: Advice from an international panel of experts....... ;-) experts....;-) on varroa for small beekeepers look at http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/index3.html ------------------------------------------------- look for the drone frame method. it works!!!! ------------------------------------------------- Jan Tempelman mailto:jtemp@xs4all.nl ------------------------------------------------- like you see my smile ;-) experts....;-) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 13:29:27 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Experts and the Net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sherry Medders wrote: >I read Bee-L and surf the net alot for beekeeping information. As the >Beekeeping Guide for The Mining Co. who "claims" they have "experts" on >every subject. I can tell you now. "I'm not an expert on beekeeping" and I >will never claim to be. But I do try my best to gather beekeeping >information and make it easier for beekeepers to fine. ******** I believe it was Mark Twain or Will Rogers who said (paraphrased): "Everyone is ignorant, just about different things." Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 963-8508 (home phone) 967 Garcia Road (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 ************************************************************************ * "...in the drift of the years I by and by found out that a Consensus * * examines a new [idea] with its feelings rather oftener than with its * * mind. You know, yourself, that is so. Do those people examine with * * feelings that are friendly to evidence? You know they don't." * * * * Mark Twain * ************************************************************************ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 14:17:54 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Musashi Subject: mint tea syrup I just removed a feral colony of bees yesterday and brought them home last night. I knew they need to be fed, so I made up some sugar syrup (1:1) last night and added a little apple cider vinegar (because of the posts I read it sounded like a good idea) to keep mold from growing as well as to act as a tonic for the bees. It just seemed like a good thing to try. While thinking of this and daydreaming a little bit while cogitating on thymol, menthol and essential oils, etc., I wondered what it would hurt or help to just brew up some mint tea from spearmint or peppermint and dissolve my sugar in that and feed to the bees. Has anyone done that? What were the results? It seems to me like it shouldn't hurt them at all and might even help them. Any thoughts? Layne Westover College Station, Texas ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 22:58:54 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Toto627@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Advice given by a panel of international experts Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Greetings~ My father always said that the definition of an "expert" was: an "ex-" is a has been, and a "spert" (spurt) is a drip under pressure. I think it applies rather well in this particular situation. Sheri Dinkel Prairie Star Apiaries Kansas, USA Toto627@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 20:58:03 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Harry Goudie Subject: Re: Advice given by a panel of international experts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: Adrian Wenner To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Date: 15 October 1998 03:51 Subject: Advice given by a panel of international experts > As some of you on BEE-L might suspect, I could not help but note the >following comment on BEE-L (Excerpt from The Scottish Bee Keeper October, >1998 Vol.75 No.10): > >*********** > >>"Ignore the internet! On this the panel was unanimous, the reason being >>that any idiot has access to it and every idiot adds his ha'penny worth >>of nonsense so that it becomes very difficult to sift the wheat from >>the chaff." > >>The experts (beekeepers) hailed from Belgium, England, Wales, and New >>Mexico. > >*********** Hi All, I suppose I have to defend the Scottish Beekeeper here. The Scottish Beekeeper is a monthly magazine published by the Scottish beekeepers' Association http://www.user.zetnet.co.uk/scottish-beekeepers/ and is free to members. Since the Association has its own Internet sub-editor Alasdair_Joyce@compuserve.com I assume that it does not agree with the "Experts" opinion! The offending article was written by Archie Ferguson who claimed to be attending a course in the Republic of Ireland when the incident took place and was just a report on what happened at the meeting. As far as I am concerned I think that even "Experts" have a right to their opinion and I don't see what the fuss is about. What I found interesting in Archie's article was that the Irish Government paid a compensation of 80 pound sterling to each hive destroyed!! I am surprised that the whole beekeeping population of Ireland were not claiming to have varroa!!! Harry Goudie, Lochluichart, Scotland. Knitwear Page: http://freespace.virgin.net/luichart.woollens/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 08:32:13 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andrew & Tiffany Dubas Subject: MASTER BEEKEEPER Comments: To: Beekeeper MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is there a way to find out the materials needed to study for the Master Beekeepers exam ? what all does one have to know ? I've kept bees for 15 years now, and worked for a commercial beekeeper for a couple years. Have a good amount of knowledge under my belt ? so what all is on the test ? thank you ..... Andrew ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 08:49:43 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Master Beekeeper Course MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Well, location, location, location! Where do you want to become certified as a master beekeeper? When this topic has come up in the past there were many who made the point that certification and a quarter will get you a quarter and that if you REALLY want to become a master beekeeper hire yourself out to a commercial outfit for a year. Having said all that (and condensed the entire BEE-L master beekeeper discussion into a single paragraph :), the Eastern Apicultural Society (EAS) offers master beekeeper certification annually after successfully passing a 3 part exam (written, lab and in-hive). Details available at: http://apicultureNE.cas.psu.edu/masterBKCert.html Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 09:25:38 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Amy Dowd Subject: Re: bumblebees? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi All - I'm just curious about some imported (Belgian) bumblebee hive boxes my dad saw the other day in a cranberry bog. Since he's been working honeybees for years, he was interested in finding out more about raising these kind of bumblebees. Could someone answer a few questions for us? Does anyone know what kind of food do the suppliers ship bumblebees boxes with to hold them until hive is established? How would you winter bumblebees over? How are bumblebee queens reproduced for commercial purposes?/How are they propagated? Is there a list or website for bumblebee keepers? Thanks - Amy Dowd Southeastern Massachusetts ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 06:52:19 -0400 Reply-To: mpalmer@together.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Palmer Organization: French Hill Apiaries Subject: Re: Hefting hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit An empty 2-story colony with bees but no honey weighs about 70 lbs. Add to that the honey they need for the winter. I lift them right off the ground with my scales to get a true reading. 2-story colony must weigh 140 lbs here in NW Vermont. Mike Pheysey wrote: > How heavy should a hive be going into winter? I'm a bit > worried that mine are a bit on the light side. > > When weighing a hive with a spring guage, do you weigh > each side of the hive in turn, with the other side still > resting on the hive stand and add the two weights together, > or do you take the average? > > Also, have I left it too late for feeding? > > Cheers, Mike. (Bristol, UK) > (PS: My bees are in BS Nationals) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 10:30:12 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Green Subject: Re: Master Beekeeper Course Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/16/98 8:58:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time, SYSAM@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU writes: > the Eastern Apicultural Society > (EAS) offers master beekeeper certification annually after successfully > passing a 3 part exam (written, lab and in-hive). Details available at: > http://apicultureNE.cas.psu.edu/masterBKCert.html Ahem....... The REAL test of a master beekeeper is to make your living from the bees....... Dave Green Thinking: I hope to get there someday...... ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 11:55:08 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tim Sterrett Subject: Hive scales Comments: To: mpalmer@together.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Years ago, I set a hive on what I would call a doctor's office scale and then graphed the weight of that colony for several years. In the years that I kept records, the colony weight would peak at the end of the early June honey flow and then the weight would dribble away until the next spring. The daily increase can be spectacular during a honey flow. (Yes, I subtracted the weight of dry supers added to the colony!) Perhaps twenty years ago, _Bee Culture_ ran an article about a hive scale made from what I would call a bathroom scale (stand on the platform and read the dial at your toes). The back edge of the hive rested on the scale. The challenge is to build a gadget to keep the hive from tumbling off the scale. This scale will register half of the hive weight (the back half) which can be doubled. Putting a hive on a scale, and recording the result, is one more way for beekeepers to see inside a colony without opening it. An easy way to judge the weight of a colony is to stand behind the hive and, with one hand resting on the lid to steady it, give a heave upward at the lowest handhold. A hive that is noticeably lighter than its neighbor colonies needs feeding and/or inspecting. Tim -- Tim Sterrett sterrett@voicenet.com (southeastern) Pennsylvania, USA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 11:00:35 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Kenn Tuckey Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 14 Oct 1998 to 15 Oct 1998 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Re HFCS and pH A couple of years ago Dr Rob Currie did a study of high fructose corn syrup (HFCS) at the University of Manitoba in Winnipeg. A brief account of his study appeared in the May issue of Bee News - published by the Alberta Beekeepers Association. Two quotes from the article: "Acid hydrolysis is known to result in syrup injurious to honeybees" and "(Dr Currie) does warn beekeepers , however, to be aware of two possible problems of off-spec HFCS: low pH (4 or lower), and a coloured syrup. Most HFCS is colourless; coloured syrup may be an indication that it was manufactured by acid hydrolysis" ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 10:03:46 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Patrick O'Hearn Subject: Re: International panel of "Experts" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hello to the list, I have to admit that I am somewhat hesitant to leap in here, being one of the "quoted" "experts" on the Gormanston panel. I think that the use of the term expert goes to the old adage that one becomes more an expert the further one goes from home. I am just a poor, humble, somewhat opinionated New Mexico beekeeper who happens to have family and good friends in Ireland. This has given me a good excuse to attend the Gormanston meeting for the past several years and the good fortune to meet and make friends with beekeepers from Ireland, England, Wales, Belgium, the Isle of Mann and several other countries I probably have forgotten to mention. As the list knows, Varroa was first found in Ireland this year and, understandably, the Irish beekeepers were, to a person, very interested in other countries experiences with Varroa and what could be expected when the mite took up permanent residence on the island. I was asked, along with beekeepers from Belgium, and England to talk about our direct experiences with the mite AS BEEKEEPERS, not as scientists, or as experts. All of us have had to deal with Varroa for a number of years and the Gormanston organizers thought our experiences would be of value to beekeepers that have never had to deal with the mite. I think Madeleine Pym did a good job in summarizing the tone of the discussion and I appreciate her concise and accurate summary of what was said from the audiences point of view (yes Allen, she was there and there really is a Madeleine Pym ...unless I too am a figment of the internets imagination...hmm). Anyway, the point of whatever was said about the internet was that there are a lot of home remedies for Varroa being bandied about which may or may not be effective and may or may not be "snake oil". Bayvarol does work (for now) and the Irish beekeeper should use it first until they get enough experience with the mite to decide if they want to experiment with alternative treatments or not. I could not stand up anywhere and say "Ignore the internet". I read the list regularly and enjoy visiting web sites on a variety of interests. That said I think it is always important to remember that Sturgeons Law applies to the internet as well. Sturgeons law states that "95% of everything is crap" (actually I think he said 90% but I have gotten cynical in my old age). This list, the internet, newspapers, personal conversations, in fact, everything but television (which is 100% crap) is subject to the law. The internet is a global conversation and, like face to face conversation is mostly repetition, filler, stock phrases, and chatting surrounding a few nuggets of information. (Before the flames start, I am very much aware that the Law applies to me as well as thee). The nets strength is also its weakness. It is unmoderated and unfiltered and allows any of us to broadcast our opinions around the globe. It allows that dissemination of ideas unfiltered by the "establishment" that Adrian Wenner is so fond of but it also allows anyone to put any string of words together and represent them as unvarnished truth. What we were trying to get through to the audience is that, in the subtropics at least, if you do not effectively deal with Varroa, you will not have any bees to keep. It is hard enough to learn to manage the pest even with proven effective treatments during the first couple of seasons without being confused by the number of alternative internet remedies that may or may not work. I will now step down off my soap box but, prior to dragging it home, I would like to recommend the Federation of Irish Beekeepers meeting at Gormanston to any beekeeper that wants a great time and the ability to meet and interact with some of the nicest, friendliest, interested, and interesting beekeepers in the world. Patrick M. O'Hearn Bears Choice Honey Bloomfield, New Mexico patrick@cyberport.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 14:38:07 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: George W Imirie Subject: Re: MASTER BEEKEEPER Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Andrew: Although a few states indepenently have iniated a socalled Master Beekeeper designation, most (if not all) failed because of lack of standards or "politics" among the beekeepers. That is NOT true (it better not be) for the EAS MASTER BEEKEEPER PROGRAM. Dr. Roger Morse, Director of Bee Research at Cornell University, in 1970 iniated the program. His concern that the great majority of future beekeepers would not attend college (or colleges with an apis curricula) and hence could not learn the details of good beekeeping. He had recognized that in our ever "changing times" (there were no household computers, micro-wave ovens, or even home aircondtioners back in 1970) the beekeepers of that day would perhaps not be able to accept the changes demanded in the future; and more important, WHO WAS AROUND THE STATES TO INFORM (TEACH OR INSTRUCT) the beekeepers how to deal with these changes as the scientists and apian researchers found new methods. Hence, Dr. Morse created a MASTER BEEKEEPER PROGRAM that consisted of three vital, but totally separate parts: A written examination covering any (or every) detail of a honey bee: its history, races, anatomy, diseases, BEHAVIOR, housing, diet, pollination, wintering, proper environment, useful tools, profit making, queen rearing, functions and purpose of each caste, handling, etc., etc., etc. The 2nd part was work in a bee laboratory studying diseases, using microscopes, the properties of honey, pollen, wax, propolis, the identification of other races or stocks of apis and the flying insects often confused with "bees", e.g., yellow jacks, hornets, miner bees, etc. The lab work also covered different styles of hives, foundation (worker size, drone size, natural wax, plastic, 3 ply, thin , etc.), robber screens, use of divider boards, double screens, and even artificial insemination of queens. The 3rd part was an "on-the-job" test in which you were taken into an unknown apiary and an instructor beseiged you with questions about WHAT you find as you open and inspect a particular colony whic may be DISEASED, queenless, laying workers, starving, spotty brood, poorly configured comb; or you may be handed a caged queen and told to "to make a split of colony #53" or "requeen colony # 6" or "make an observation hive" or "prepare colony #19 for moving 100 miles tonight" or " prepare a 3 pound Package with queen". That instructor observed your use of tools, smoker (did it stay lit?), use of smoke, etc. etc. A "GOOD" test took days, exhausted the candidate, explored your knowledge of most of what is written in The Hive And Honeybee or ABC & XYZ of Beekeeping. The program was so well accepted (in thought) by many beekeepers in the New York area, that Dr. Morse proposed that EAS "take it over' and make it available to beekeepers from all over the world to be tested by the apian experts or bee entomologists, researchers invited by EAS. This year was the 27th year that Dr. Morse's idea has been the EAS test. In these 27th years several thousand beekeepers have asked to investigate it, about 1000 people have actually taken some part of the test, but as of 1998, only 118 candidates have been certified as an EAS MASTER BEEKEEPER. Frankly, although was awarded my MB certification many years ago, I value my degree in higher esteem that I value my college degrees in science. WHY? Since 1984 when we first found acarapis woodi in the U.S., varroa jacobsoni in 1987, more recently viruses, and the public fear of bees created by too many movies and TV scenes of KILLER BEES; bees can NO LONGER be kept as "Daddy kept bees", because our changing times have created problems that require proper training and apian education of today's beeHAVERS to upgrade them to tomorrow's beeKEEPERS. I feel VERY STRONGLY that the most important contribution that a CERTIFIED EAS MASTER BEEKEEPER can give is FREE training and instruction to today's "newbies" or yesterday's beeHAVERS to upgrade them into knowledgeable beeKEEPERS to save the valuable resource of agriculture - apis mellifera. Andrew, we need all the beekeeping teachers we can get, provided that they are certified of the apian knowledge of 1998 and not the anecdotal procedures of the past of learning "by guess and by golly". As much as a like and respect my local veternarian and my neighborhood butcher, I would much prefer to have a certified surgeon remove my tonsils than accepting the combined efforts of the vet and butcher. Write to: Eastern Apicultural Society; Loretta Surprenant, EAS Secretary, Box 300, Essex, New York 12936 or telephone (518) 963-7593 Next year, I start my 66th year in beekeeping and my 2nd decade as an EAS Master Beekeeper. I have taught beekeeping FREE OF CHARGE in many places (my MASTER BEEKEEPER PARTNER, Ann Harman, at the moment teaching beekeeping in Armenia, FREE, has done this in 5 continents in the past 3 years!) and observing the losses of bees primarily due to the lack of beekeeping knowledge, that our TEACHING or INTRUCTION is the most important contribution we can make to all of society today. I hope you can come to the next EAS meeting, July 25-31 in Marysville, Tennessee (20 miles south of Knoxville); and introduce yourself to this old retired scientist but who still keeps and studies bees. George Imirie ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 13:11:49 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Hive scales In-Reply-To: <16442873508830@systronix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Perhaps twenty years ago, _Bee Culture_ ran an article about a hive > scale made from what I would call a bathroom scale... I have seen a design with the bathroom scale used upside down and a mirror system like a periscope used to read the scale. in fact, I built one. It worked OK. > An easy way to judge the weight of a colony is to stand behind the hive > and, with one hand resting on the lid to steady it, give a heave upward > at the lowest handhold. A hive that is noticeably lighter than its > neighbor colonies needs feeding and/or inspecting. True. We check all our fall colonies this way and actually carry two brood chambers of known weight with us to check (calibrate) our guesses from time to time. A good operator can guess hive weight within 1 or 2 kg about 90% of the time after getting a 'feel' for it. BTW, light and heavy hives compared to the neighbours mean many things. For example, heavy ones may be queenless. At any rate, those that are unusual in weight or have numerous drones merit attention. --- FWIW -- on the matter of small clusters and brood chambers choked with honey brought up previously: The writer said to forget bad queens as a cause. Perhaps not. Although the queens may be all laying well, the stock itself may be at fault. I have had some bees that worked well in the area where they were raised, but which were horrible for me. They were very conservative and much preferred to store in the brood chambers. I realize that the bees in question are likely Buckfast, but my Dutch friends assure me that there are many many types of Buckfast and in Europe they are culivated for their differences. I haven't had Buckfast for 20 years or more, but when I did they plugged the brood boxes and built a lot of brace comb. I have also read that maintaining Buckfast purity and nature can be tricky. I ain't no expert, but I wonder... Allen --- Newsflash! Visit http://www.beekeeping.co.nz/beel.htm to search BEE-L archives the easy, easy way or to update or change your subscription options. --- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 20:13:50 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tom Speight Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 14 Oct 1998 to 15 Oct 1998 In-Reply-To: <908510545.214433.0@uacsc2.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <908510545.214433.0@uacsc2.albany.edu>, Automatic digest processor writes >resting on the hive stand and add the two weights together, >or do you take the average? Add the two together. You then have the weight of the hive parts plus bees - around 40 - 50 lb plus about 30-35 lbs stores (minimum). It will be seen that a scale to weigh up to about 50lbs+ is required. Even nationals vary because of differnt types of frames or roofs, so these figures are approximates only. If you have a suitable scale, don't forget to weigh them again throughout the winter and early spring. When the weight drops by about 25 lbs, feed 'em, candy or syrup depending on the time scale. Remember more bees die of starvation in the spring than during the winter. It is late, but if they are light feed the quickly. It must be better to take a chance on keeping them rather than leave them and chance losing them. HTH -- Tom S ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 15:53:29 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jean-Pierre Chapleau Subject: Bees as pollution indicators MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A year ago or so I remember someone posting on this list about using bees as pollution indicators. If I remember well this person was a scientist specialising in this area. I tried to trace these posting back from the archives but without success. So I post to the list. A new gigantic magnesium plant (Magnola) is being erected in my area. The plant will use a chlorine based process. Likely, a large volume of organochlorates (hope I spell right) will disperse in the environment from the plant. The agricultural and beekeeping community is worrying about the situation. The issues I would like to get information on are the folowing: 1) to what extent can the hive products be affected by dioxins, furans, chlorobenzene, hexachlorobenzene, BCP etc? I suspect that the pollen, containing lipids, can be contaminated. What about the wax? What about the honey? 2) as I will be personnally involved in the development of a protocol for the monitoring of the environmental pollution (from the beekeeping perspective), I would like to know if the bees themselves (their body tissues) can be good organochlorate pollution indicators? 3) who are the specialists in this field? 4) is there serious written technical information on this matter and where to find it (I consider using the IBRA library)? Jean-Pierre Chapleau 1282, rang 8, Saint-Adrien, Que., Canada, J0A 1C0 tel : (819) 828-3396, fax (819) 828-0357 chapleau@interlinx.qc.ca ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 13:07:33 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Today's HFCS sugars In-Reply-To: <199810161704.KAA29799@mx1.thegrid.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:00 AM 10/16/98 -0600, you wrote: >Re HFCS and pH >A couple of years ago Dr Rob Currie did a study of high fructose corn syrup >(HFCS) at the University of Manitoba in Winnipeg. A brief account of his >study appeared in the May issue of Bee News - published by the Alberta >Beekeepers Association. Two quotes from the article: >"Acid hydrolysis is known to result in syrup injurious to honeybees" and Today in the US Acid hydrolysis or a combination of enzyme and acid can be used to make corn syrups which most beekeepers should know is not good bee feed at any price. HFCS in the US are made using the "Multiple Enzyme" process and should not cause problems to bees. I know of no HFCS syrups that beekeepers would use made using any other process in the US and would be interested if anyone can provide information on such a product. Good information on-line can be found at the STALEY web site, they are the pioneers of HFCS: http://www.aestaley.com/products/sweeten.htm#STALEY CORN SWEETENERS , (you will have to type some of this in to make it work.) >"(Dr Currie) does warn beekeepers , however, to be aware of two possible >problems of off-spec HFCS: low pH (4 or lower), and a coloured syrup. Most >HFCS is colourless; coloured syrup may be an indication that it was >manufactured by acid hydrolysis" Color can be a indicator of mis handling such as over heating prior to delivery. Most HFCS syrups used by beekeepers are called straw colored in the sugar trade which is almost colorless. Beekeepers should always buy their needs in sugar direct or from a specialized sugar broker and if the deal so too good, its probably NO Good! Buyer Beeware! You can't go wrong dealing with a well know company like DADANTS & SONS for small or large sugar needs in the beekeeping industry. For more information on HFCS try: http://www.corn.org/web/sweeten.htm ttul, the OLd Drone http://beenet.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 19:26:32 -0400 Reply-To: dublgully@worldnet.att.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Gaida Subject: Queen Behavior MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We were up checking our remaining bees this evening. Noticed something different. Temperatures today were in the mid 70s. Frost last night. About 65 F degrees right now. About 40 minutes til sundown. Sky is clear and no wind. Entrance reducers (about two bee size) on all the colonies. One of the hives had about 20 bees hanging around on the front landing board. The QUEEN was walking around with them. This hive is not real strong, survived robbing by other bees and yellow jackets. Bee cluster is in bottom box with honey stores in the second box. Why was the queen out for a stroll? She walked around for a bit then went back into the hive. She was not surrounded by bees as she was walking but most of the bees followed her back in. We use large stones on the top of hives to stop the covers blowing off. One hive had a cluster of bees on the stone. They all had their rears up and were fanning. We looked through the cluster and they were all worker bees, no drones, no queen. There was another small cluster in the brood box. Again, not a real strong hive, due to robbing. What would cause this behavior? Thanks for any help. Still learning, slowly. Dave says he is going to invent a yellow jacket smasher. It will consist of a small weighing scale on the landing board that detects the yellow jacket as underweight to a honey bee. A very small hammer will then come down and smash it. Still on the drawing board. :-) It has got to beat his standing up by the hives every evening since we realized our robbing mistake for an hour with a fly swatter. Judy in Kentucky, USA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 20:59:09 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dave Pehling Subject: Re: bumblebees? In-Reply-To: <199810161330.GAA15466@coopext.cahe.wsu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 16 Oct 1998, Amy Dowd wrote: > Hi All - > > I'm just curious about some imported (Belgian) bumblebee hive boxes my dad > saw the other day in a cranberry bog. Since he's been working honeybees > for years, he was interested in finding out more about raising these kind > of bumblebees. Could someone answer a few questions for us? Does anyone > know what kind of food do the suppliers ship bumblebees boxes with to hold > them until hive is established? How would you winter bumblebees over? How > are bumblebee queens reproduced for commercial purposes?/How are they > propagated? Is there a list or website for bumblebee keepers? =================== There used to be a Bombus-l list but I don't know if it is still active. There is info about bumblebee nest boxes at http://www.anet-chi.com/%7Emanytimes/page57.htm Cheers, Dave Pehling> ============================================ | W.S.U. COOPERATIVE EXTENSION-SNOHOMISH CO. | | 600 128TH ST. S.E. | | EVERETT, WA. 98208 U.S.A. | | PHONE - (425)338-2400 | | FAX - (425)338-3994 | | EMAIL pehling@wsu.edu | ============================================ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 20:14:14 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: New series in ABJ Comments: cc: joschmid@u.arizona.edu, friesen@gate1.sbcc.cc.ca.us Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi, all. Last June 22nd I posted a rather lengthy comment about a three-part series that Steve Tabor published in the AMERICAN BEE JOURNAL in the April, May, and June issues. In brief, it seemed that he is quite far behind the times on the issue of honey bee recruitment to food sources. I wrote personally to Steve and pointed out some of the problems with his contributions. In addition, I approached Joe Graham, the editor of ABJ and indicated that I would like to publish a response. He graciously agreed. The first of a three-part series in response to Tabor just appeared in the October issue of ABJ. It appears that the second and third parts will appear in the following two issues. In large part, the content of that three part series is based upon research results obtained by Larry Friesen, as follows: 1973 Friesen, L. The search dynamics of recruited honey bees, Apis mellifera ligustica Spinola. BIOLOGICAL BULLETIN. 144:107-131. For those interested and willing to read a scientific paper, I have a few copies of that contribution and can mail them upon request. Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 963-8508 (home phone) 967 Garcia Road (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 ************************************************************************ * "...in the drift of the years I by and by found out that a Consensus * * examines a new [idea] with its feelings rather oftener than with its * * mind. You know, yourself, that is so. Do those people examine with * * feelings that are friendly to evidence? You know they don't." * * * * Mark Twain * ************************************************************************ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 12:25:34 +0300 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jan Tempelman Organization: Home Subject: Re: bumblebees? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > There used to be a Bombus-l list but I don't know if it is still active. look at http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/index3.html#emailservers ------------------------------------------------- home of the drone frame method. de darreraat methode ------------------------------------------------- http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/index3.html Jan Tempelman mailto:jtemp@xs4all.nl Sterremos 16 3069 AS Rotterdam, The Netherlands Tel/Fax (SOMETIMES) XX 31 (0)10-4569412 ------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 11:33:58 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Alan Riach Subject: Hive Weighing/Winter Feeding MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Weighing each side and adding the two weights gives a pretty accurate answer provided the floor resting bars are close to the side of the floor (I have seen hives with the resting bars some way in - in which case the moments are against you) It makes life easier if you make up a lifting hook to bring the spring balance up to nearer face level. My one is made from a 8mm (5/16) steel rod 700mm(28") long with a 50 x 10 (2"x3/8") square hook at the bottom to hook under the edge resting bar of the hive floor , and a 20mm(3/4") round loop at the top for the spring balance. This brings the spring balance up to a more readable level when used on hives mounted on 300mm (12") high hive stands. Here in East-central Scotland our single brood box" Smith "type hives need to weigh at least 35kg (77lbs)-weighed without roof - to get them through the winter. Usually when returned from the heather they'll have packed enough heather honey into the brood chamber to have reached this weight. The girls who don't make it on their heather holiday usually need feeding with sugar syrup-about 5 or 6 kg (11 to 13 lbs) made up at 1kg to 1 imperial pint of water(there's mixed units for ya). I remember my father saying that the allowance during wartime rationing in UK was about 12lbs sugar per hive.(remember our UK hives are smaller than most places -50,000 cells for a UK Smith or National as opposed to about 61,500 for a standard Langstroth brood box). Safe wintering Alan Riach Bathgate - Edinburgh,Scotland. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 02:13:58 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Kate Rothacker Subject: In-hive treatment for wax moths? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hello-- I'd like to know what one can do about wax moths if they are DETERMINED to wipe out your hives. We lost two of our four hives in early September to wax moths, with severe infestation within five weeks of inpecting the hives and seeing no signs of any. Though at least one of these two had been very strong at inspection, now there was only one frame (out of 40 altogether) with any sign of brood at all. We opened up the ruined hives away from their normal location, to let the light get to the worms, and were told that the bees left on the comb would likely drift back to the two remaining hives (which stood a few feet away from "home base"). I assumed this would make the remaining hives stronger (which should make it more resistant to the moths, right?). This past Tuesday we noticed a couple of adult moths around one of the two surviving hives, and on inspection, found some infestation in the bottom box of one hive only, along with different stages of brood in the upper box (and no worms up there). We did not notice any eggs, but thought it might be because the season is over. We fully inspected the second hive also, and found no worms and the same stages of brood. We decided to combine the hives by adding the "clean" upper deep & super of the first hive to the apparently worm free second hive. It was our hope that this would strengthen them both enough to prevent further wax moth infestation and enable them to overwinter. We hoped we had found it early enough to avert disaster. Two days later, my husband noticed a couple more adult moths flying around our now ONLY SURVIVING HIVE. I have seen alot of information posted here on treating one's equipment to prevent wax moth damage in STORAGE; however, I now wonder if there might be some sort of treatment to prevent the moths/worms from infesting an active colony? We are only two-year beginners, having split our original two last year into four, but it was definitely our impression that three of the four hives were fairly strong. I would not have been surprised to find only the weakest infested, but finding this much problem is getting quite discouraging. We are in southeastern PA (Lancaster county), where temperatures are just getting to nearly frost at night. We have followed schedules for mite treatment with Apistan, and though we did not get much of a surplus honey crop this year, each hive had a nearly full super of stores when we first found the problem. Where have we gone wrong to have have these worms so firmly entrenched? I'm beginning to wonder if we're cut out for beekeeping after all. Kate R. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 23:06:15 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Paul Nicholson Subject: saving queen for later In-Reply-To: <199810170259.TAA20221@alto1.altonet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi, I have a hive that just raised an emergency queen. It was doing quite well but something happened to the queen. I'm getting a new mated tested queen because I fear the emergency queen will be undermated as there are not many drones left. Anyway, I don't really want to kill the emergency queen, as I would like to split this hive as soon as the population builds. I'm in southern california and our honey flow happens early here and the bees can forage almost every day. Could I remove the emergency queen to a queen cage for a few days while I put in the new queen, and then put the emergency queen's cage back in the hive with the corks in until I want to try the split. Paul Paul Nicholson Electronic Imaging Systems, Inc. TEL 805 532 1068 5148 Commerce Avenue, Unit F FAX 805 532 1065 Moorpark, CA 93021 U.S.A. paul@eisusa.com http://www.eisusa.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 20:26:05 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Bees as pollution indicators Comments: cc: jjbmail@selway.umt.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >A year ago or so I remember someone posting on this list about using bees as >pollution indicators. If I remember well this person was a scientist >specialising in this area. I tried to trace these posting back from the >archives but without success. So I post to the list. Check with Jerry Bromenshenk (jjbmail@selway.umt.edu). He is on top of the subject. Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 963-8508 (home phone) 967 Garcia Road (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 ************************************************************************ * "...in the drift of the years I by and by found out that a Consensus * * examines a new [idea] with its feelings rather oftener than with its * * mind. You know, yourself, that is so. Do those people examine with * * feelings that are friendly to evidence? You know they don't." * * * * Mark Twain * ************************************************************************ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 11:27:31 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tim Sterrett Subject: Re: In-hive treatment for wax moths? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kate R. writes about a wax moth infestation: We have followed schedules for mite treatment with Apistan, and though we did not get much of a surplus honey crop this year, each hive had a nearly full super of stores when we first found the problem. ********************************** In eastern Pennsylvania, a wax moth infestation is an indicator of a problem with the bees. A populous, healthy colony controls the wax moths allowing both bees and moths to survive. Without having seen the bees, my guess would be that either something is wrong with the queens in your colonies or Varroa mites have prevented the bees from filling their colonies with young bees. Having a problem with all of the queens in a bee yard is unlikely. But with feral bee colonies gone and with fewer beekeepers (both because of mites), queens may not be as well-mated as they were when bee colonies (and drones) were everywhere. Some beekeepers in Chester County (next door to Lancaster Co.) treat twice a year for Varroa: once in early spring and again in mid-summer (after extracting a lot earlier than in the days before mites). Do you know what Varroa mites look like. They are visible to the naked eye in a mite-infested colony as shiny, chestnut-colored spots, often on the thorax of a bee. The spot doesn't appear in the same place on every bee so the spot (the mite) is not a part of bee anatomy. Tim -- Tim Sterrett sterrett@voicenet.com (southeastern) Pennsylvania, USA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 11:26:45 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Don Rahman Subject: Re: saving queen for later MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Paul, You wrote that you were concerned that the emergency queen might not be mated well. If that's the concern and you are going to replace her in your original hive, what makes her any better in the split. If it were me I would order a second queen to make the split with. You don't what a small split struggling along trying to get started with a queen that might end up a drone layer right away. Just my opinion. Good luck with whatever you decide. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 10:33:01 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Green Subject: Re: bumblebees? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/16/98 9:28:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ADowd@NAS.EDU writes: > I'm just curious about some imported (Belgian) bumblebee hive boxes my dad > saw the other day in a cranberry bog. Since he's been working honeybees > for years, he was interested in finding out more about raising these kind > of bumblebees. Could someone answer a few questions for us? Does anyone > know what kind of food do the suppliers ship bumblebees boxes with to hold > them until hive is established? How would you winter bumblebees over? How > are bumblebee queens reproduced for commercial purposes?/How are they > propagated? Is there a list or website for bumblebee keepers? Those who culture bumblebees today are highly secretive about their methods. The best info I've seen is a series of articles by Dr. Keith Delaplane (see the pollination page, under alternative pollinators). Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 13:08:13 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: George W Imirie Subject: Re: In-hive treatment for wax moths? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Kate: I apologize for my bluntness, but you need some STRONG advice. In all history, never have wax moths killed a colony of bees. The adult flying moth lays eggs in the crevices of dark spots of the hive and these eggs develop into larvae (white wiggly worms). These worms have to eat to become adult flying moths. However, contrary to many beeHAVERS, the diet of these larva is NOT honey, NOT wax, NOT bee brood, and surely not live bees; but rather the PUPAL COCOON of a developing honey bee. Some people have called these cocoons a bee "afterbirth", which is a great example of anthropomorphism that far too many so-called beekeepers have today. When a bee larva's cell is capped with wax, the larva spins a cocoon to develop through its pupa stage before it emerges 11 days later as an adult bee, and this cocoon which is a protein source is left behind glued to the cell wall of the BROOD frame. The wax moth larva (worm) tunnels through the wax cell walls of a BROOD frame to eat these cocoons. They will not damage a honey super frame that has never had brood laid in it. So why were your colonies have wax moths? Your colonies were in serious trouble long before the wax moths took over. The bees probably had some disease, which had materially weakened them, such as: tracheal mites, varroa mites, foulbrood, nosema; or they might have become queenless and were unable to raise new queens. My strong hunch is the bees were infested with varroa mites- varroa jacobsoni. Had you treated with Apistan strips? Had you treated with menthol in August to kill tracheal mites? Had the bee inspector checked them for American Foulbrood? ALL OF THESE TREATMENTS must be done EVERY YEAR, EVERY YEAR, EVERY YEAR. When did you last observe BROOD in these hives? In Lancaster, every hive should still have brood in it until November telling you that the colony is queenrite. If you are not upset by my BLUNTNESS, I will be happy to advice you for further action, and "get you on the road to future success", but I will leave you with a positive statement: YOUR BEES WERE NOT DESTROYED BY WAX MOTHS! They were destroyed or badly weakened by something else that allowed the wax moths to take possession of the mess that was left. If you saw my posting of last night about MASTER BEEKEEPERS, you know why I offer my free knowledgeable help. Good Luck! George Imirie ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 18:07:58 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Christopher Slade Subject: Re: FGMO Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Some months ago there was much discussion on the list about the use of food grade mineral oil (liquid paraffin or similar) for the control of varroa. Now that the season is over for most of us can people who have used FGMO and nothing else please report on how effective it has been? Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 15:45:14 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Paul Nicholson Subject: Re: saving queen for later In-Reply-To: <199810171537.IAA24705@alto1.altonet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:26 AM -0400 10/17/98, Don Rahman wrote: >Paul, > >You wrote that you were concerned that the emergency queen might not be >mated well. If that's the concern and you are going to replace her in >your original hive, what makes her any better in the split. If it were >me I would order a second queen to make the split with. You don't what a >small split struggling along trying to get started with a queen that >might end up a drone layer right away. Just my opinion. Good luck with >whatever you decide. Good logic. Being in southern california I can build up my population before queens are readily available. I just thought if the population builds, I could try the queen before they are available in March. Paul Paul Nicholson Electronic Imaging Systems, Inc. TEL 805 532 1068 5148 Commerce Avenue, Unit F FAX 805 532 1065 Moorpark, CA 93021 U.S.A. paul@eisusa.com http://www.eisusa.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 20:01:09 -0400 Reply-To: dublgully@worldnet.att.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Gaida Subject: Removing Wax from Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We had a lot of wax with honey in it from our bee collection. I collect antiques and collectibles. One of the items I have is an old fruit press. Not the big one made out of wood, but the small, about a gallon size, one made out of cast iron. It has a one gallon outside bucket and a little smaller diameter bucket with holes all over it. These fit in the bottom that has a valley around the edge. You put the "fruit" into the inner basket and there is a lid that screws down on the center bolt and squeezes the juice out. Thought this might work with the wax and honey. Wasn't sure if the press would squeeze the wax out through the holes. Tried it anyway. Did a great job! Took us about 2 hours to do 6 5-gallon buckets full of wax/honey. We let the juice press drain into a strainer. The strainer didn't catch any impurities. Most of the pollen, etc. was trapped in the squeezed wax. We ended up with about an inch of pressed wax that we pried out of the inside holey bucket. Might want to try it. Judy in Kentucky, USA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 21:00:53 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Greg J Zujus Subject: Re: Fall shutdown Scott, Several weeks one of my hives had a Queen that just "stopped laying" as you described. I questioned the list about this but did not get any consistent replies. In my case I saw the queen so I was sure she was present. And while my other queens had slowed down their laying, they were still producing eggs. I waited about 2 weeks and checked again, still no eggs or brood, so I added a frame of brood and a queen from an observation hive I had. After about 10 days I checked again, the new queen was gone, the old queen still present and still no eggs or brood. I also noticed some supercedure cells on the frame I had added. I decided the old queen was no good and ordered a new queen. A week ago I opened the hive, located the old queen and a newly hatched virgin queen and crushed them both to the new queens cage and placed the cage into the hive. Yesterday I checked and found the new queen present, accepted and laying a nice small brood pattern. I hope this helps. Greg Z Mystic, CT On Thu, 15 Oct 1998 20:31:58 -0700 Buck Rut writes: >Greetings fellow Beekeepers, > This has been my first year as a beekeeper. It has been >fascinating and satisfying. I am eagerly looking forward to next >year. > My question is this. I live in the metro St. Louis area. Most >flows are over, and temps are cooling. I got into my 4 hives this >evening. One hive still had some eggs and brood. The 3 others showed >no eggs, and no brood. I thought the queens slowed down laying this >time of year, but am concerned about finding no eggs or brood in the >other 3 hives. I didnt have time to go queen searching, but all hives >were queenright 2 weeks ago. Do the queens quit laying completely? >Thanks for any light you are able to shed on this matter > >Scott Moser >Moser's Apiary >Cedar Hill, MO. > > > > >_________________________________________________________ >DO YOU YAHOO!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 19:35:37 -0600 Reply-To: fltdeck1@ix.netcom.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Matthew Subject: Quick & Cheap yellow-jacket TRAP! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Judy, David & all, I've been using a MUCH easier method to destroy robbing yellow-jacket hordes. Read my post on this subject in the alt.sci.beekeeping news group or below: Take a bottle & fill it 3/4 the way full of water (I use Arizona Ice-Tea bottles....as the neck works perfectly to keep them inside the bottle) and then add approx. 10-20% of raspberry or blackberry jam (about 6 tablespoons to an Arizona Ice-Tea bottle). Place the bottle anywhere around the hive. Yellow jackets seem to prefer to climb into hard-to-reach places so I've had the best luck in placing bottles about 3-4" under the landing boards (or behind the hive if you wish to attract the pests AWAY from the hive opening). Leave the bottle for a few days & return to find 100-200+ yellow jackets drowned inside the bottle. BE SURE to check the bottle every few days as they'll be able to eat the jam-solution if there's so many dead bodies there that they can remain afloat on top & fly away with your 'yummy' jam treat. Bees will ignore the jam. You could even place the bottle inside the hive if you wish, though curious bees might find their way to the same demise. Good luck, Matthew in Castle Rock, CO David Gaida wrote: > Dave says he is going to invent a yellow jacket smasher. It will > consist > of a small weighing scale on the landing board that detects the yellow > > jacket as underweight to a honey bee. A very small hammer will then > come > down and smash it. Still on the drawing board. :-) It has got to > beat his > standing up by the hives every evening since we realized our robbing > mistake for an hour with a fly swatter. > > Judy in Kentucky, USA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 19:50:08 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Wrights liquid smoke In-Reply-To: <18381001706147@systronix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > "Has anyone out there ever used Wright's Liquid Smoke in a spray bottle > instead of the traditional smoker?" I think I mentioned this before, but it is possible to contaminate the honey with liquid smoke, if not careful. Of course bee smokers can flavour the honey if used to great excess, but the aerosols are much more likely to do so. I've had people come to me and ask why their honey tastes 'off' and it turned out this was the reason. Allen --- Newsflash! Visit http://www.beekeeping.co.nz/beel.htm to search BEE-L archives the easy, easy way or to update or change your subscription options. --- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 19:58:52 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Irish Varroa: Advice from an international panel of experts. In-Reply-To: <18342306006137@systronix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > But, it has also to be said, there are, to put it bluntly a very large > number of nutters on the loose on the net, and why not. And this group, > as well as other bee groups, is not immune to having its fair share. One > must, of course, not forget the hoaxers... And it seems those with the least to offer sometimes have the most perserverence in answering the same questions over and over. Those who have the most experience tend to reply a time or two to the perennial questions and then fall silent and their words of wisdom are buried in a ton of conjecture. For this reason, I strongly encourage one and all to READ the ARCHIVES before posing a question. They are accessible by following the link below and will give a very balanced view compared to answers that may be given on any one occasion. Allen --- Newsflash! Visit http://www.beekeeping.co.nz/beel.htm to search BEE-L archives the easy, easy way or to update or change your subscription options. --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 11:43:27 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: antany Subject: Odp: Quick & Cheap yellow-jacket TRAP! Comments: To: fltdeck1@ix.netcom.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Take a bottle & fill it 3/4 the way full of water - 3/4 is to much, 1/2 is enough. >and then add approx. 10-20% of raspberry or blackberry jam (about 6 >tablespoons to an Arizona Ice-Tea bottle). It is enough 1 to 2 tablespoons of sugar! Andrzej ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 07:19:08 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: FGMO MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I would put most of the weight on results from the south, and even then be careful this year. Varroa was greatly reduced here in Maine because those who did not treat with anything lost their hives over the past two years. So we are in the build up stage. With no or few feral bees to act as a varroa source, we have to wait until some of us get careless and fail to treat or resistant strains become more numerous. Most of us who treat with Apistan last fall have seen few if any mites this summer. So I could have treated with FGMO and have seen the same results as I did with no treatment this year. I think any results of FGMO treatment are still suspect unless the test is run under controlled conditions- namely varroa is introduced to hives and treated. As an aside. I do think FGMO works. I just do not think the results we get this year, at least in Maine and other northern states would mean much. But the discussion will be interesting and warm us up with the usual flames from both sides. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 10:47:47 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rick Adcock Subject: Re: FGMO In-Reply-To: <02463296001536@systronix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Christopher Slade To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Some months ago there was much discussion on the list about the use of food grade mineral oil (liquid paraffin or similar) for the control of varroa. Now that the season is over for most of us can people who have used FGMO and nothing else please report on how effective it has been? Chris Slade To unsubscribe, send email to Honeybee@systronix.net saying: "leave bestofbee" I I have been using FGMO for two years. The mite count is always low. I am sold and will never use chemicals again! Rick & Judy Adcock Lazy A's Bees Cleburne, Tx. dronebee@htcomp.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 11:52:58 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Allen Dick Subject: Pierco (again), Dakota Gunness, Pollination MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I have been corresponding with another beekeeper who shall remain anonymous here, but I thought some of the exchange might interest the list: > Before we all went off to get on with our active seasons we had a brief > exchange regarding Pierco frames... We are planning to put a good number > of new deep bodies into service next year, and this year we used Dadants > plasticell in American wooden frames, with good success (the bees still > prefer the wax foundation). Although it is an immense saving in time on > using cross wires and wax it still requires making up the frames, and > Piercos could save this at a relatively minor extra cost. Exactly: it's not the cost for us that is the ultimate deciding factor; it is the labour and management and the time delay involved in getting frames together as well as the fact that there are always some wooden frames that come apart the first time they are used that bother me. We enjoyed not experiencing these annoyances after switching to Pierco this year, and I think, for us, the dollar cost was very competitive. With the Pierco, we simply ordered, and two or three weeks later the frames arrived -- having been made to our specs (black plastic with wax coating)-- and we started putting them into hives. We were a little late getting the frames, as there was a problem with a trucker and, as you know, a week can make a huge difference in the spring. Therefore, we did have more come back from the field undrawn than we had hoped, but we don't worry; they stay in the supers until the bees get around to them next year or the year after. We could not be doing that with wax foundation. > We found the wood/plastic gave us much better results than the old > Piercos did, especially when used in our small experimental unit of > polystyrene hives. We found little overall difference in acceptance using (freshly) waxed Piercos, and what advantage we saw was in Pierco's favour. They were accepted quickly and I saw little of the comb spurs and parallel comb that we saw with waxed Permadent and another similar product. Our only complaints about the Pierco are tentative and aesthetic. Hopefully the black colour should help overcome the dirty look that white frames get. The feel of the plastic edges on bare fingers takes getting used to. I personally haven't handled enough of them to decide what I think. I like the 15% extra useable area, but the sharper edges and the flexing are a bit disconcerting. I guess that It will be a few years until I really know what I think. I hope to move them increasingly into the brood chambers and go to single brood chambers during the operating season. Pierco should self space better than wood and stay flat, allowing the bees to function very well in singles. With wax, we have too many brood combs that are sub-optimal. > However, if the new ones are better than the old it would be quite a > bonus... Making up all these frames even at a modest 4 boxes per colony > is truly daunting task. True. We expanded to 3,000 colonies this year and the 10,000 Pierco frames helped. I'd love to put solid boxes of Pierco on for seconds, and tried it on one single split this year. Results: a box of perfectly drawn frames full of honey and brood. I'm a bit leary about doing it wholesale until further tested, but for some jobs, such as pollination, it might just be the ticket. > We use a Dakota Gunness uncapper, and I understand that this could have a > bearing on our choice as some respondents have reported these as > 'trashing' Piercos, although poor adjustment and flails going round too > fast might be a factor here. I have concluded that most people do not know how to set their Dakota. Many have to replace flails often, however in two years of heavy use, we never did see any wear. The quick adjust feature is a waste of material, because we just set it once and forget it. The only adjustment required is the flail speed, and we always set it as low as we can and still get good uncapping. We have to change it a bit as the season progresses. We had problems with the Dakota pulling end bars off new wood frames of plastic foundation if they were not well drawn and the staples were a bit off centre. We had added 10,000 wood frames with Permadent and I guess the damage was minor, amounting to a hundred or so frames, but I found it annoying. I have not seen damage to Pierco with the Dakota, but until now, we have not used many of the Pierco. I understand that the Cowen system has a problem keeping the Pierco moving along because they are slippery. I think that Dave has conquered that now though. Actually, we did not use the Dakota this year -- and rather hand scratched everything. We thought we'd have less broken frames, but the result is about the same and the labour was about double. 3,000 colonies is too many to scratch. Just before I decided that, someone bought my Dakota, so I have to decide once again what system to buy. We've used a number over the years: Knife, plane, McFadgen, Penrose, scratching, & Dakota. I think we may go to a Cowen line this time -- maybe with a flail conversion instead of knives. That means I'll have to get a cappings handling system. Ugggh. Don't get me wrong, I still think the Dakota is the best uncapper. It's just that the Cowen system loads the extractor quickly -- almost as part of the uncapping -- and has a de-boxer that is sublime. In summary, if nothing changes, I doubt I will ever buy anything except Pierco again. We are entirely happy with it. There is some learning to do (What do you do with a destroyed frame? Landfill? I hate the thought.) however I think the convenience outweighs many other factors. I am really tired of supervising construction and maintenance activities. I want to be a beekeeper, not a carpenter. > 1998 has been a very poor honey year here... We worked plenty > and got our bees into fine condition indeed, but the weather just never > obliged us with any settled spells after mid May. We started extracting > earlier than usual with our rapeseed (Canola) around 15th May, but after > about 9 days we stopped again and did not need to run the machines again > till July. we ended up with about a one third of a crop on our normal > honeys, and about half normal from our heather. A failure of both crops > to this extent is very rare and represents the poorest harvest for at > least a decade, with only 1985 rivalling it in recent memory. It was just > cold almost every day and we also got 300% of normal rainfall in each of > June July and August. Well, we wound up with about 65 pounds, which is about 5 pounds over my budget plan, but well under our usual yield which is 100 to 120 pounds. Most others had a bumper crop, but we decided to put 1,800 of our hives into pollination right at the main flow and sacrificed honey for cash money. It was an excellent bee year in almost every way; we only had 5% winter kill, by far the lowest I've had in 25 years, and then a warm spring that allowed (forced) us to divide and increase. It turned out to be an early honey season here and we had to move heavy hives into the pollination right off an intense flow as we could not pull the honey fast enough to stay ahead of the requests for "bees now". We then had to pull the honey on location and truck it back up here (150 miles). The only fly in the ointment? The entire summer was very hot, with few reprieves, and there was not a large August flow in most locations. All in all I am pretty happy, although this pollination and expansion all at once is the hardest thing I've ever done. Pollination work sucks the soul right out of a person. Fortunately the soul is a most resilient component and I feel my humanity returning -- even if my back and hip remind me that I'm aging. Allen --- Newsflash! Visit http://www.beekeeping.co.nz/beel.htm to search BEE-L archives the easy, easy way or to update or change your subscription options. --- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 20:01:49 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: What to do with Pauls emergency queen Hi Paul/All Good to hear the bees at least tried. Something that springs to mind, that I have never tried, but that would be interesting to hear what happens would be to put the emergency queen above an excluder in the second brood box - and force here to become a drone layer over winter, so next spring you will have a strong double queen hive producing drones and workers (note - workers determine the number of drone eggs being layed, so possibly this way you will ensure you get enough workers and drones ebing layed, as the worker layer won't be disturbed and lugged to the edges to produce drones etc. Just an idea. Remember I know nothing about keeping bees in the North, with winters and so on, so this idea may be either completely nuts, or needs a bit of serious modification. Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis 6139 South Africa Time = Honey If you are not living on the edge you are taking up too much space!! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 14:08:35 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: FGMO results MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Now that the season is over for most of us can people who have used FGMO and >nothing else please report on how effective it has been? Although my results are highly unscientific, I have put mineral oil on all of my colonies since spring. I started by putting a bead on the top bars of the brood area, but found that the syringe kept getting "stuck" and this would cause blobs of mineral oil to come out, which wasn't the prescribed method by Dr. Rodriguez. So I figured the inner cover would be a good place to spread the mineral oil since so many bees hang around there. So since then at most visits to the bee yards, I treat all colonies in this manner. I did an "ether roll" on one before I put in the Apistan strips, and I only saw about 3 mites out of 1/3 of a Mason jar of bees....about 300 or so. Also, I have seen very few deformed bees lately. Seems to be working, but again, not scientific. Regards, Ian Watson ian@gardener.com real estate agent baritone gardener beekeeper---> 11 colonies ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 16:50:30 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Barricklow, Walt" Subject: candy recipes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The time of the year has come to get ready for the holidays, Wife wants to know if anyone has a recipe for making popcorn balls or any kind of honey candy recipe. We have been making lots of cookies by changeing from sugar to honey, but just need to see if anyone has any specials for the holidays. TNX for any assistance. Walt in BarnwellSC ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 22:01:33 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Dalby Subject: Wax Moth MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Following your discussion on Wax Moth it does not only go in used brood combs. I have had a number of virgin cut comb supers badly infested with greater wax moth and have had to melt the comb to extract the honey from them. Any thoughts on this? Peter Dalby, England. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 21:33:46 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Veil with a plastic viewing area Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi All Today I was examining a varroa floor paper insert at an out apiary, and had to remove my head gear to get a good look through a magnifying glass. Maybe I should have waited until I got home but I was really curious. I got a sting on the lower lip - the sorest I have got for a long time. (It is still a little numb as I type this, nearly four hours after being stung.) Then I got to thinking - why not cut out a section of the veil and sew in or otherwise affix, a rectangle of heavy plastic or other transparent material just in front of the eyes. Then it should be much easier to see eggs, mites etc. instead of looking through the gauze. I have never heard of such a modification so maybe there is a practical problem associated with it. Any comments will be appreciated. Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland e mail cssl@iol.ie Tel + 353 1 289 5269 Fax + 353 1 289 9940 Latitude 53 Degrees 16' North Longitude 6 Degrees 9' West of Greenwich ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 18:27:08 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Green Subject: Re: Wax Moth Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/18/98 5:35:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, peter.pebadale@VIRGIN.NET writes: > Following your discussion on Wax Moth it does not only go in used brood > combs. I have had a number of virgin cut comb supers badly infested with > greater wax moth and have had to melt the comb to extract the honey from > them. > > Any thoughts on this? I would not have said that this never happens, only that it is not common. The wax worms will sometimes even get into boxes of foundation. But they will starve on pure wax and/or honey, probably not surviving to maturity. They need the extra nutrients of brood, old brood comb and pollen. What probably happened is that there was a lot of moth pressure, some source of great numbers of adults, such as a dead hive nearby. They really can mess up comb honey. We try to process ours quickly, placing ours in jars of liquid honey as cut comb. I wish we had a room sized freezer to store supers of comb honey, so we could do this year around. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html The Pollination Home Page: http://www.pollinator.com Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 19:58:27 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Christopher Slade Subject: Re: Buying queens Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Look at an atlas. Compare the UK where I live with the USA where most contributors to the list live. Its tiny. The advice on requeening in the UK is usually to rear queens yourself if at all possible. If you can't, then get them locally from beekeepers who operate under similar conditions to you as bees will adapt themselves closely to the local season and nectar flows and to the size of hive you use. Professor Heath in the next county to me keeps bees near his home which, from his address, must be close to sea level and has an out apiary in the hills, maybe a few hundred feet higher but not many miles away. He has reported that queens moved from one apiary to another don't do as well for a generation or two. Across the English Channel, in France, hives have been moved experimentally from one part of the country to another where the flows follow a different pattern. The colonies moved in either direction don't do as well as the local bees. I am Chairman of my local association and Secretary to the County and I don't know anybody who regularly buys queens. Contrast the USA. Its vast. I have learnt from reading this list that you have great differences in weather, temperature, climate, wild flora, agriculture. Yet the majority of contributors to this list (who may not be a representative sample of US beekeepers) seem to buy queens annually from Florida where conditions may be ideal for queen rearing but are as different from typical foraging conditions elsewhere in the US as it is possible to get. I have no doubt in my mind that someone has gone into the economics of this practice most accurately, down to the last cent. Perhaps they could explain them to me and to others who do not have this knowledge. My impression is that buying queens is recommended as good practice. I wonder if it is the producers of the queens who do the recommending. Leaving aside any economic considerations, for the amateur, rearing your own queens and making the best of the bees that have succeeded locally is FUN. I am no genius at queen rearing and have as many failures as successes but it is very satisfying to have a queen you have known from an egg do well. The problem is that one can become too sentimental about her to kill her in due course but you will still have her daughters and grand daughters to play with. I look forward to receiving the thoughts of other contributors. Re reading what I have written, it seems a little critical. It is not intended to be. It is more a thirst for knowledge and a wish to share the enjoyment of playing with bees. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 19:58:24 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Christopher Slade Subject: Re: Wax moths Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Kate: I was going to reply at length to your query but later in the batch of post I saw George Imrie said all I would have and a lot more besides. I agree with him that wax moths gaining the ascendancy is a symptom of another, more serious problem. I wonder whether you have the greater or the lesser wax moth (Galleria mellonella or Achroia grisella). The former is much larger and damages your woodwork as well as your wax, but neither damages your bees to any great extent. I would not wish to disagree with the Master, particularly as he is familiar with your local conditions which I, in the UK am not. However, my view is that you should establish whether your bees have an ailment before you treat them for it. The less chemicals you put into a hive the better. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 18:29:40 -0600 Reply-To: Barry@Birkey.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Organization: BIRKEY.COM Subject: Re: candy recipes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Barricklow, Walt wrote: > > The time of the year has come to get ready for the holidays, Wife wants to > know if anyone has a recipe > for making popcorn balls or any kind of honey candy recipe. I have one for honey taffy at: http://www.birkey.com/BLB/Beekeeping/HT.html -- Barry Birkey Illinios, USA -------------------------------------------- 630.293.1181 ph > 630.293.3613 fx barry@birkey.com > http://www.birkey.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 17:21:24 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: Wax Moth In-Reply-To: <199810182136.OAA24719@mx1.thegrid.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:01 PM 10/18/98 +0100, you wrote: >Following your discussion on Wax Moth it does not only go in used brood >combs. I have had a number of virgin cut comb supers badly infested with >greater wax moth and have had to melt the comb to extract the honey from >them. Hi Peter & Friends, Well if you were a wax moth full of eggs and the bees were after you it no telling the places you would lay your eggs including nice sealed comb honey and even new foundations. Commercial producers of comb honey have to protect it from the moths and eggs hatching. One easy way is to keep it in the freezer. In the olden days comb honey was shipped in tight wood boxes to protect the honey from breakage and keep the moths out. Wax moths come in many flavors. The major one here on the left coast of America now is the grater wax moth, but we have smaller ones called lesser wax moths, also called other names by other food product handlers. If you have a good population of the greater's you seldom see the lesser's as the greater's will eat them so it is said. Actually this is a good thing because the lesser is much harder to get rid of and it very tolerant of many agricultural chemicals because of their use in other food storage problems. The lesser is/was in the old days the dreaded pest of the comb honey producer before extracted honey came into favor. All these moths produce worms that bore through wax in search of proteins found in the pollen and pupa cases left each time a bee hatches out of the brood combs. They do well on pollen alone and are really IMHO pollen worms as they need no wax to produce generations of more healthy moths and in fact will not produce adults on wax alone. But they sure do damage the wax combs in searching out their food. It is interesting that their waste products as nasty as it looks can be rendered into nice beeswax which indicates they do ingest wax but don't change it much or get much out of it. This same nasty stuff will float on honey and can be removed from the top of the honey with bits of wax and wood, or strained out with the wire, nails, wood & paint chips, rocks, and other extraneous inert stuff that pure raw honey contains down on the bee farm. ttul, the OLd Drone Los Banos, California http://beenet.com (c)Permission is given to copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 20:52:48 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Ralph W. Harrison" Subject: Re: veil with plastic viewing area Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Tom, Charlie Honeychurchn my old beekeeping friend did exactly that. The only problem that he had with it was that on cool days (here in Connecticut) the plastic would get condensation on it from his breath. The plastic also became scratched over a period of time and had to be replaced. Charlie moved to Grand Caymen Island three years ageo he is one of only two beekeepers on the island. Charlie took up beekeeping when he was 76 and he is now 88. When he was 86 he built his own house on the eastern end of Grand Caymen. If you look him up you will not be sorry. He is truly a remarkable person. Ralph Harriosn Western CT Beekeepers Association Milford, CT USA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 20:27:39 -0500 Reply-To: boby@lakecountry.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Young Subject: deformed wings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a several hives which have some bees with deformed wings, seems like there are five or six on the ground in front of each hive all the time. I think they are cast out by the normal bees as they emerge. They are small and very young. A local beekeeper friend says this is caused by varroa. I treated in the spring according to directions(Apistan)but have seen this activity since July. I would appreciate comments about this. thanks, Bob Lindale,TX ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 18:34:34 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: candy recipes In-Reply-To: <199810182135.OAA24586@mx1.thegrid.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 04:50 PM 10/18/98 -0400, you wrote: > The time of the year has come to get ready for the holidays, Wife wants to > know if anyone has a recipe > for making popcorn balls or any kind of honey candy recipe. We have been Most recipe's don't use much honey but I found this one that does. Sesame Candy 3 cups honey 2 cups sesame seeds peanut oil In a deep, medium-size saucepan slowly heat honey over medium-low heat, using a heat diffuser, to the hard-crack stage (about 305 to 310 degrees on a candy thermometer). Stir down often to prevent boiling over, about 45 minutes. Stir in sesame seeds. Set aside for a few minutes to cool slightly. Lightly grease a 9x13-inch baking sheet with peanut oil. Do not use waxed paper. Pour honey mixture onto it. Set baking sheet on a cooling rack. When cooled, but not hard, score into diamond shapes. When cooled completely, remove candy and separate into pieces. WARNING: Be sure to alert friends and family to the danger of burning themselves on the extremely hot carmelized sugar. From The Frugal Gourmet For a few more good recipes that use moderate amounts of honey "punch the pooh bear" at: http://beenet.com/cooking.htm (text files) ttul, the OLd Drone (c)Permission is given to copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 20:21:38 -0700 Reply-To: gstyer@worldnet.att.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: George Styer Subject: Re: FGMO MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Do petroleum distillates not fall under your definition of chemicals? ---------- > From: Rick Adcock > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Re: FGMO > Date: Sunday, October 18, 1998 8:47 AM > > I have been using FGMO for two years. The mite count is always low. I am > sold and will never use chemicals again! > > Rick & Judy Adcock > Lazy A's Bees > Cleburne, Tx. > dronebee@htcomp.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 22:34:43 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: deformed wings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >I have a several hives which have some bees with deformed wings >A local beekeeper friend says this is caused by varroa. I >treated in the spring according to directions(Apistan)but have seen this >activity since July. I would appreciate comments about this. This is, to my knowledge, caused by the varroa mite while it feeds on the pupae under its capping. This loss of nutrients must cause the mal-formation of the bees wings. Have you treated again with Apistan this fall? Regards, Ian Watson ian@gardener.com real estate agent baritone gardener beekeeper---> 11 colonies ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 22:30:15 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tim Sterrett Subject: Medium-Depth Division Board Feeders MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Has anyone modified deep hive body, plastic division board feeders to use in medium-depth brood chambers? (I have not seen medium-depth, plastic division board feeders for sale.) Tim -- Tim Sterrett sterrett@voicenet.com (southeastern) Pennsylvania, USA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 21:11:47 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Walter T. Weller" Subject: Re: Veil with a plastic viewing area Dear Tom - >Then I got to thinking - why not cut out a section of the veil and sew in or >otherwise affix, a rectangle of heavy plastic or other transparent material >just in front of the eyes. Because it gets dirty, sweaty, scratched, and harder to see through than the veil. Do you wear eyeglasses? A beekeeper's worst affliction except a bad back. I swear every season that I will start wearing contacts, but what with astigmatism and tri-focals, that doesn't seem very practical. Walter Weller Post Office Box 270 Wakefield, Louisiana 70784 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 22:25:56 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tim Sterrett Subject: Feeding Fumidil-B in Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Has anyone fed bees Fumidil-B in honey. Does it mix into warm honey? Or should I mix it into water and add that to the honey. I saved honey separated from old cappings in a solar wax melter and plan to feed it (with Fumidil-B) in division board feeders. Tim -- Tim Sterrett sterrett@voicenet.com (southeastern) Pennsylvania, USA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 22:21:02 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tim Sterrett Subject: Re: Veil with a plastic viewing area MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tom Barrett writes: Then it should be much easier to see eggs, mites etc. instead of looking through the gauze. ************************** When I have to look for eggs, I wear a cheap magnifying device on my head under my bee veil. The magnifier has a visor or hood that holds a lens in front of each eye (and in front of my bifocals, too.). The magnifier was a cheap plastic item from a mail order catalog twenty years ago. Twenty years ago, I could see eggs without any glasses; I now consider the magnifying hood indispensable! Tim -- Tim Sterrett sterrett@voicenet.com (southeastern) Pennsylvania, USA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 16:34:10 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert E Butcher Subject: Re: candy recipes Comments: To: Barry@Birkey.com Hi all, I'm not crying about it .( yes I am) I don't have access to net , it would be a blessing to have the recipes sent to the list so all could use it. By the way , does anyone know of a way to convert sugar recipes to honey recipes? Thank you for your kindness. God Bless You Robert&Teresa Butcher bobbees@juno.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 12:30:04 GMT+0100 Reply-To: Anthony.Morgan@iet.hist.no Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Anthony Morgan Organization: HiST/AIN/IET Subject: Re: Bees feeding on fallen peaches MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Rimantas Zujus wrote: > In August and especially in September, in heather blooming time, usually > there is no nectar flow in area I keep my bees. Then I watch my bees > attending our berries left on bushes and on soil. Those berries are as > follows: plums, gooseberries, raspberries. The bees usually attend the > sweetest ones at the time. Our bees are normally many kilometers away on the coastal heather moors during August and early September. If we have one or two weak hives they stay at home in the garden - as pointed out there are very few nectar plants (here) at that time. We were very surprised to find that the interior of the two hives kept at home last year were bright yellow and smelled distinctly of plum. We then remembered that there had been bees as well as wasps on the fruit whenever we wanted to pck some. As the hives seemed to have collected/processed a fair number of frames of plum juice we extracted them and ended up with 10kg of golden plum flavoured "honey" that is highly prized by the whole family -- especially nice on plain old vanilla ice cream! Tony in mid-Norway ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 07:24:15 -0400 Reply-To: loganv@earthlink.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Logan VanLeigh Subject: Re: deformed wings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob Young wrote: > > I have a several hives which have some bees with deformed wings, seems like > there are five or six on the ground in front of each hive all the time. My experience with varroa is that the colonies exhibiting that level of malformed bees are heavily infested and must be treated immediately to save them. Logan E TN ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 17:10:58 PDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Re: Substituting honey for sugar In-Reply-To: <199810190134.LAA03381@iccu5.ipswich.gil.com.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Robert & Teresa Butcher wrote- > By the way , does anyone know of a way to convert sugar recipes to > honey recipes? Our Queensland Beekeepers Association has a receipe book called "Cooking = With Honey". I extract the following:- Use honey to same measure as sugar but reduce liquid by one-quarter e.g. for 1 cup of sugar - use 1 cup of honey for 1 cup of milk - use three-quarters cup of milk. Substitute honey for syrup in equal proportions Reduce the sugar measurement by a little and add some honey e.g. for one cup of sugar - use three-quarters cup sugar plus = one-quarter cup of honey or use half cup of sugar plus half a cup of honey and adjust liquid = proportionally Lower the oven temperature by approx. 10 - 15 degrees centigrade. This = prevents over-browning of honey baked goods. Adding half a teaspoon of baking soda for each cup of honey used may be = needed to help lighten the mixture. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 09:31:08 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Steve Otrembiak Subject: when is a hive weak Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" This weekend I was combining some hives. In some cases it was very apparent by the lack of bees and honey that the hive should be combined if it was to be of any use. In other cases I had to wonder if combining was the right thing to do. There seemed to be plenty of healthy bees but the honey supply was not adequate. Would I be better off combining these hives or feeding them? These hives were started by splits in late spring. All of this brought another question to mind. If a nuc can be wintered over why can't a less populated hive winter over as well? Steve Steve Otrembiak sotrembi@skidmore.edu DON'T CONFUSE ACTIVITY WITH RESULTS ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 10:07:21 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: Re: when is a hive weak Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/19/98 9:36:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time, sotrembi@SCOTT.SKIDMORE.EDU writes: > > All of this brought another question to mind. If a nuc can be wintered > over why can't a less populated hive winter over as well? > It sure can but it requires more effort or if you are a pro more costly labor. The big guys won't bother but no reason a hobby keeper can't. Bring em down into one deep and winter above a screen on a prosperous hive so they benefit from free heat. Tom in CT ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 10:20:58 -0400 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: In-hive treatment for wax moths? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit George Imirie's response to Kate's original post is absolutely correct. Moths cannot destroy a colony, they can only finish off what disease, mites or queenlessness has started. I would only add to his response that moth larvae also love to feed on stored pollen as well as bee larval cocoons. If I have a few cells of pollen in one of my clean and dry stored supers, moths will often (but not always) find them. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 09:33:51 -0400 Reply-To: dublgully@worldnet.att.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Gaida Subject: FGMO: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Just like Madeleine, guess we believe more is better. We treated with > Apistan in spring. AND we used FGMO all summer up until we had to treat > with Apistan in late summer because varroa was heavily present in ALL > hives, except the Buckfast. > > We used FGMO every time we opened the hives. Put a bead of oil on top of > each frame in the two bottom boxes. Used a cheap mustard squeeze bottle > (not from used mustard, but new) to apply the bead. > > Had one swarm which we caught in late May. Used as a control. Used only > FGMO and no Apistan. This hive was one of the weak ones that succumbed to > robbing. > > (We have two beekeepers close to us that use NO chemicals in their hives. > We MUST treat because they don't.) > > Judy in Kentucky, USA > > ---------- > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 10:50:47 -0400 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: Buying queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Theoretically, you have a good point, Chris, about raising queens locally. I cannot comment about experience in the UK or on the continent (Europe, that is). However, in the USA, I have routinely bought queens from the south (sent from Georgia to Michigan) for twenty years and have always been most pleased with the results. I would like to rear my own queens, but find that my summer is always so tightly filled with other commitments that the precise timing necessary for queen rearing never quite works out for me. It is just easier for me to buy queens, and using commercial queens has never has been a problem. Georgia raised queens winter perfectly in Michigan. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 11:37:38 -0400 Reply-To: rossybee@entelchile.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rossy Castillo Orozco Subject: Deformed wings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob Young: Deformed wings are produced by a virus. I have a report and it says " Deformed wings virus is a particle that we have recently isolated and characterised. It is usually associated with the infestation of colonies by varroa, and causes the deformed wings often seen on mite infested bees. " The report is from ROTHAMSTED- Experimental Station. UK.(1995) For a long time we have been thinking that deformed wings were the result of a heavy infestation in the capped brood but the real reason is the virus. Of course varroa acts as a vector the same as in APV and others. rossybee@entelchile.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 09:09:31 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Bees as pollution indicators In-Reply-To: <199810162159.PAA28478@selway.umt.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 03:53 PM 10/16/1998 -0400, you wrote: I think that you are looking for us. We have 25+ years in this field. Check out our web page at http://www.umt.edu/biology/bees >A year ago or so I remember someone posting on this list about using bees as >pollution indicators. > >A new gigantic magnesium plant (Magnola) is being erected in my area. The >plant will use a chlorine based process. Likely, a large volume of >organochlorates (hope I spell right) will disperse in the environment from >the plant. The agricultural and beekeeping community is worrying about the >situation. > >The issues I would like to get information on are the folowing: > >1) to what extent can the hive products be affected by dioxins, furans, >chlorobenzene, hexachlorobenzene, BCP etc? I suspect that the pollen, >containing lipids, can be contaminated. What about the wax? What about >the honey? In most cases, the honey remains relatively free of organics that are in the air. The wax is a lipid sink as is propolis. Pollen is most likely to be contaminated by particulate (dust) borne chemicals like lead and arsenic (a common scenario in smelter areas) Nikola Kezic from Croatia has documented transfer of radioactive cesium from soil through trees to aphids and then into honey dew honey. Floral honeys generally do not show much, if any of this contamination. Returning forager bees carry contaminants on their body hairs, which they can pick up while flying through the air by electrostatic forces. Volatile and semi-volatile organic chemicals appear in the air inside the hive - not surprisingly when you consider that the bees and all of the materials that they bring back may off-gas any volatile chemicals in or on them -- and the temperature is elevated inside the hive which promotes release of these gases. >2) as I will be personnally involved in the development of a protocol for >the monitoring of the environmental pollution (from the beekeeping >perspective), I would like to know if the bees themselves (their body >tissues) can be good organochlorate pollution indicators? Depending on volatility and routes of entry, you would either look at the air inside the hive or conduct an extraction (usually using a solvent) to look at the more persistant chemicals like the chlorinated pesticides. >3) who are the specialists in this field? > We have the longest track record, but there are others like Celli in Italy, Nikola in Croatia, groups of scientists at Oak Ridge National Labs and Las Alamos National Labs. Roger Morse and associates in the U.S., several scientists from Germany, UK, and various European countries including Sweden have conducted trials. >4) is there serious written technical information on this matter and where >to find it (I consider using the IBRA library)? > Would you consider publications in SCIENCE, Journal of Environmental Quality, EPA Protocols, and other peer reviewed journals to be serious? Cheers Jerry >Jean-Pierre Chapleau >1282, rang 8, Saint-Adrien, Que., Canada, J0A 1C0 >tel : (819) 828-3396, fax (819) 828-0357 >chapleau@interlinx.qc.ca > > Jerry J. Bromenshenk, Ph.D. Director, DOE/EPSCoR & Montana Organization for Research in Energy The University of Montana-Missoula Missoula, MT 59812-1002 E-Mail: jjbmail@selway.umt.edu Tel: 406-243-5648 Fax: 406-243-4184 http://www.umt.edu/biology/more http://www.umt.edu/biology/bees ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 12:17:51 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Paul Walton Subject: Queen wasps hiding under roof MIME-Version: 1.0 While going through one of my apiaries yesterday, I noticed that some of my hives had queen wasps preparing to over-winter on the outside of the hive but under the roof. There were anywhere between one and three per hive. Has anyone else noticed more queen wasps around this year? -- Paul Walton Bedfordshire, England Paul@adrem.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 18:54:37 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rimantas Zujus Subject: Re: Deformed wings Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-4" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Beefriends What do you meen with deformed wings? I succeeded to see some my young bees almost without wings in the August. It means at least 3 or 4 Varroa mites are fed by this young lady. (According to dr. Kublickas). Usually I treat my bees twice a year: in early spring and in August/September. Dr. Kublickas advises to treat bees among every nectar flow and to have them strong for wintering (not like mine this year). Dr. Kublickas stated that chemical treatment shortens bee age by 50% and he supports using of natural means for e.g. formicacid. He gave an example of a jay. The bird takes an ant to its beak and rubs own feathers. When one bee's wing "looks" back (as usually does) and another "looks" ahead it means they have tracheal mites (Dr. Kublickas). I'm not expierenced with this mite. Best wishes Rimantas Zujus Kaunas LITHUANIA e-mail : zujus@isag.lei.lt http://www.online.lt/indexs.htm http://www.lei.lt 55 North, 24 East ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 13:11:55 -0400 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: Queen wasps hiding under roof MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Paul Walton wrote: > While going through one of my apiaries yesterday, I noticed that some of > my hives had queen wasps preparing to over-winter on the outside of the > hive but under the roof. There were anywhere between one and three per > hive. I don't know if there are any more, but I aften see that many hiding under the roofs of my hives at this time of the year. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 13:25:09 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Victoria McDonough Subject: Re: Wax Moth Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi All, Now I'm really confused! As a beginner I find the information regarding wax moths confusing. Especially since I am struggeling with what to do with my honey supers over the winter. Last winter I put them (wet) into a trash bag and left them in my garden shed. In the spring I found the combs covered with mildew. Members of my bee club told me to just give them to the bees so I did. They nerver regained their nice white color they had before. I had put them in a bag because I have mice in my garden shed and didn't want them to get to the supers. My shed is the only place I have to store these suprers. This year I was going to simply stack the supers. They sit on a solid peice of wood and I thought I would put another peice of wood on top. I thought this would keep the mice out. Then I was told that I had to protect them from wax moths and I should leave a space between each super. But then the mice would get in! Now I am reading that the wax moths really only like former brood combs and should not bother my honey combs. So now I am confused. What is the best way to store these supers in a shed that may also have mice? Advice would be appreciated. Thanks, Vickie ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 11:35:42 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Deformed wings In-Reply-To: <199810191711.LAA04712@selway.umt.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 06:54 PM 10/19/1998 +0200, Rimantas Zujus wrote: Dr. Kublickas advises to treat bees among every nectar >flow and to have them strong for wintering (not like mine this year). In the U.S. you can't legally treat with chemicals during nectar flows, when you have honey supers on your hives, and you need to stop the use of chemicals before the nectar flow. Use of chemicals while collecting nectar and honey could lead to contamination of the product. Dr. >Kublickas stated that chemical treatment shortens bee age by 50% I would very much like to see a reference that supports this statement. What chemicals, how treated, how was the life span shortening measured? If this is true, I would want to add it to our toxics database. However, I have not read anything that supports such a severe effect for any of the miticides approved for use in beehives. Halving the life of a bee would certainly be of concern - the treatment could be worse than the disease. and he >supports using of natural means for e.g. formicacid. Although secreted by ants, found in human urine, and produced by domestic sewage, formic acid is still a chemical, also known as methanoic acid. Some birds do rub their feathers with ants for the formic acid. That doesn't mean that formic acid has no effect on bees or that it is better than a synthetic chemical (in terms of mite control or reduction of impact to bees). Certainly too much formic acid can harm the queen. >When one bee's wing "looks" back (as usually does) and another "looks" ahead >it means they have tracheal mites (Dr. Kublickas). I'm not expierenced with >this mite. > Mites and the viruses that they vector have been implicated in wing deformations. I doubt that one facing forward and one facing back is diagnostic of tracheal mites. I can only assume that because many tracheal mites tend to be in one rather than both trachea of the host bee, someone then suggested that a single forward facing wing = tracheal mites. But I have seen thousands of heavily infested bees containing tracheal mites in one or both trachea, and none of the bees had deformed wings. Deformed wings are much more common in varroa mite infested colonies - whether as a result of the mite's feeding or a virus as suggested in other postings is a topic of debate. Jerry > > Jerry J. Bromenshenk jjbmail@selway.umt.edu http://www.umt.edu/biology/bees ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 14:10:21 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Comb honey and wax moths MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Referring to wax moths infecting comb honey, Dave says "They really can mess up comb honey. We try to process ours quickly, placing ours in jars of liquid honey as cut comb. I wish we had a room sized freezer to store supers of comb honey, so we could do this year around." I process better than 1,000 pounds of comb honey a year. My procedure is to put an entire super inside a 40 gallon plastic bag and put the super and bag in the freezer for 48 hours. (My freezer takes about 12 hours to reach zero degrees, and the other 36 hours is "insurance".) I can put seven supers at a time in my freezer, standing some on end. After I take them out of the freezer I leave the supers in the bag for at least 12 hours so moisture (condensation) will form on the bag rather than on the sealed comb. If have stored these in the bags for 4-5 months with no difficulty. After freezing, my worry is the sealed comb picking up moisture from the ambient air and fermenting. If all I was concerned about were wax moth, I would not hesitate to store supers outside the bags. I would stack them cris-crossed and be certain they had 10-12 hours a day of light. Lloyd LloydSpear@email.msn.com Owner, Ross Rounds(tm) the finest in comb honey production. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 14:10:24 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Queen rearing or purchasing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris wonders why US beekeepers seem intent on purchasing queens rather than raising our own. The standard advice in the US seems to be that the average queens from knowledgeable queen breeders will consistently be superior to the average queen raised by a hobbyist, sideliner, or commercial honey producer. While I am certain there are exceptions, this makes sense to me. There is much that can go wrong with producing good queens: 1. Selecting the queen mother without proper evaluation. 2. Selecting larvae that are too old. 3. Chilling the larvae. 4. Having insufficient pollen to feed the larvae. 5. Having insufficient nurse bees to feed the larvae. 6. Improperly handling of the sealed queen cells. 7. Insufficient number of drones. 8. Drones from inferior stock. I am certain there are more items to list, but that is a start. The theory is that queen breeders, who will go out of business unless they consistently produce superior queens, can control all the variables better than someone who just raises queens occasionally. Chris, I suspect that the numbers of queens raised in California is many times the number raised in Florida, but that is a quibble and is more for your information than anything else. As you know, the queens are produced in those two states (as well as in Texas, Georgia, etc.) almost solely because their season starts 4-6 weeks before the season in the major honey producing areas...the northern part of the country. Moreover, an increasing number of queen breeders are producing queens that are specifically bred to do well in the northern states and will not do particularly well in the states they are bred in. The classic example, of course, is the Carnolian. When I started beekeeping in the mid-60's, Carnolians were not well known in the US. Today, they are surely at least number two to Italians in the northern part of the country, and in some areas may exceed Italians in popularity. Most Carnolians are raised in California, but do not do particularly well in that hot dry climate. Italians are superior in that climate, but many, many breeders raise Carnolians because they do better for their customers. This, of course, addresses one of your points concerning having queens that are bred for local conditions. Personally, I raise my own queens for needs from mid-May through June, which is our strong swarming period. The theory, which I borrowed from others, is that the bees will make up for my mistakes when producing queens during a period when their natural instinct is to produce queens. Queens that I need in April and August I purchase from professionals. Lloyd LloydSpear@email.msn.com Owner, Ross Rounds(tm) the finest in comb honey production. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 14:10:26 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Overwintering weak hives and nucs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Steve asks "All of this brought another question to mind. If a nuc can be wintered over why can't a less populated hive winter over as well?" Of course, a weak hive could be over-wintered just as a nuc can. The question is "why bother". One over-winters a nuc to get a fast spring build-up to a strong hive. It doesn't always work, but the odds are with you. On the other hand, a weak hive has demonstrated that it cannot succeed...usually because of a poor queen. Natural selection would have it die out during the winter, but it might be better for the beekeeper to combine it with a strong hive (to protect the combs, if nothing else). Under no circumstance should a beekeeper combine two weak hives. The only result of that is to produce another weak hive! Hope this helps. Lloyd LloydSpear@email.msn.com Owner, Ross Rounds(tm) the finest in comb honey production. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 15:08:53 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Bartlett Subject: FMGO MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Judy in Kentucky Wrote: > Just like Madeleine, guess we believe more is better. We treated with > Apistan in spring. AND we used FGMO all summer up until we had to = treat > with Apistan in late summer because varroa was heavily present in ALL > hives, except the Buckfast. I too tried the FGMO. I was glad to see your post because I was = reluctant to post because I lost more hives due to mites, but I was not = able to put the FMGO on as many times as recommended. I too used the = apistan for Fall treatment as I saw my other hives going down. Any others??? billy bee ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 21:23:14 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: Modification of Andy's honey candy recipe Hi All/Andy Andy, when you posted this recipe last year, or a very similar one I basically went home and thought - why not try it in the microwave (Lazy I know, but in making any sugar type treat it is easier to use the microwave as burning is harder) My modification is as follows: Take one and a half cups of honey and mix sesame seeds into it until the mixture is stiff. Place in a microwave in a glass jug that is quite tall. Set on medium low (900w machine that I use - may need to experiment) and watch carefully. When it foams up be careful not to let it boil over. I gave it ten minutes of this treatment. At the end I let it cool until it started hardenind and then rolled teaspoonfulls of this goo between my hands and rolled the resulting balls in poppy seeds. The result is a nice very morish toffy chewy thing. It is highly hygroscopi (draws moisture). A way round this is to collect all the little sachets from vitamin bottles and pain killers etc and bake them in the oven and store your sweets in a tub with these in it in a cup. (keeps the moisture away). I however eat them very fast and that is that sorted out. Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis 6139 South Africa Time = Honey If you are not living on the edge you are taking up too much space!! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 15:32:07 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Bartlett Subject: overwintering a nuc MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have taken a three deep observation hive apart and put the frames in an empty super and filled the rest of the box with drawn comb. This was done at this time of year after I was finished using the hive for fairs and demos. The super was placed over an inner cover of another hive which had both sides of the hole screened. The frame that had brood on it was placed in the center. An inner cover was then placed over the super and a jar of sugar water was placed over hole, leaving enough space for the bees to pass. An empty super was the placed over the top to protect the jar of sugar water and then a top. The bottom inner cover had a place cut out for the bees to use as an entrance. This proved to be the most successful method for me. One year this method worked so well that it was my heaviest honey producer. If you have the hives and the time these things are always good to try. They are teaching tools that success can be measured and many things can be learned. From little experiments like this you can see different things you can try and soon you will have lots of pieces that go together. billy bee ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 13:11:33 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tom Speight Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 17 Oct 1998 to 18 Oct 1998 In-Reply-To: <908769742.1110703.0@uacsc2.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <908769742.1110703.0@uacsc2.albany.edu>, Automatic digest processor writes >The advice on requeening in the UK >is usually to rear queens yourself if at all possible. Chris, I agree entirely with this. What is your local reaction to the news that MAFF intend to allow the import of package bees from NZ.? The concern in Cumbria is that it will bring in more trouble with Kashmir bee Virus, which we undersatnd is one of the diseases infecting bees there. Does anyone (in Germany perhaps, where they already import them) know of the effect of this virus in conjuction with varroa? NZ is fortunate in not having the mite -probably dur to their RIGIDLY ENFORCED importation regulatons. -- Tom S ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 21:56:50 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Using BEE-L postings in a local beekeeping publication Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello Maybe this posting will be answered by the Moderator. I would like to use some of the material from the BEE-L postings in the Irish Beekeeping magazine from time to time. I would like someone to tell me what the ethics, rules, do's and dont's are, as I have no experience in doing this. Will I have to get the permission of the contributor whose material I use, will I have to use the material in it's entirety, will I have to either show or not show the email address of the contributor, is there any standard or recommended message of acknowledgment which I must or may use etc.? I look forward to guidance, as I want to do it right if I am allowed do it. Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland e mail cssl@iol.ie Tel + 353 1 289 5269 Fax + 353 1 289 9940 Latitude 53 Degrees 16' North Longitude 6 Degrees 9' West of Greenwich ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 18:41:21 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Kai-M. Engfer" Subject: Cape Bee Web Site MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! S U B M I T Y O U R U R L !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hi all! In order to renew my link-web-site I would like to ask You if You have or know any good beekeeping website. Please let me know Your URL. If You wish to learn more of the Dark European and the Cape honeybee, please have a look to the following web address: http://insel.heim.at/mainau/330017 Kai-M. Engfer, Tel. 04347-8861 \| Ostlandstr. 1, http://insel.heim.at/mainau/330017 -|||8< D-24247 Mielkendorf /| ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 14:32:00 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: Modification of Andy's honey candy recipe In-Reply-To: <199810191940.MAA25033@mx1.thegrid.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:23 PM 10/19/98 +0000, you wrote: >Andy, when you posted this recipe last year, or a very similar one I >basically went home and thought - why not try it in the microwave >My modification is as follows: That sounds to me like you forgot that anyone using that recipe should send me either their first born or a two sample! Anyway I will see what I can do with my microwave, maybe I will get lucky and it will run all over the place and I will be forced to replace it as it's very old, very low powered, but its paid for which is about the only good thing I can say for it. >The result is a nice very morish toffy chewy thing. It is highly >hygroscopi (draws moisture). A way round this is to collect all the >little sachets from vitamin bottles and pain killers etc and bake >them in the oven and store your sweets in a tub with these in it in a >cup. (keeps the moisture away). I am sure with pure honey it will also be somewhat hygroscopic unless its cooked as directed, but even then these type bars need to be as much seeds as you can get into them as they tend to keep them dry. >I however eat them very fast and that is that sorted out. Yep, thats my problem, I eat my mistakes. ttul, Andy- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 15:16:49 -0700 Reply-To: ryarnell@orednet.org Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard Yarnell Subject: Re: Using BEE-L postings in a local beekeeping publication At least in the US, and I assume all countries which belong to the international union, the copyright rests with the original author. Permission and any arrangement for payment must be made directly with the author. I don't think the fact that an archive of the list on which it is posted transfers any title or control to the list owner. If material is quoted or included in an article you wish to use, you must approach the author of the quoted passage as well. Thanks for asking and troubling to comply. All those who don't almost guarantee that one or more government(s) will jump in with legislation. Once this wonderful tool has legislation of any kind attached to it, the threshold is lowered and more control will follow. >I would like to use some of the material from the BEE-L postings in the >Irish Beekeeping magazine from time to time. I would like someone to tell me >what the ethics, rules, do's and dont's are, as I have no experience in >doing this. Will I have to get the permission of the contributor whose >material I use? Probably not, but that rests with the copyright holder. >will I have to use the material in it's entirety, -- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 23:39:15 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Frederick L. Hollen" Subject: Re: Veil with a plastic viewing area In-Reply-To: <199810182324.TAA13254@pen3.pen.k12.va.us>; from "Computer Software Solutions Ltd" at Oct 18, 98 9:33 pm According to Computer Software Solutions Ltd: > .. . . . > Then I got to thinking - why not cut out a section of the veil and sew in or > otherwise affix, a rectangle of heavy plastic or other transparent material > just in front of the eyes. Then it should be much easier to see eggs, mites > etc. instead of looking through the gauze. > > I have never heard of such a modification so maybe there is a practical > problem associated with it. > > Any comments will be appreciated. > > Sincerely > > Tom Barrett > I once saw such a veil in a display of unusual beekeeping equipment at a beekeepers' meeting. It had a rectangular plexiglas window attached with Velcro to the screen in front of the eyes. It also had a zipper in the cloth mesh under the chin to allow the wearer to sip a drink through a straw, or whatever, without having to remove the veil. It had been made by a company called Les Gestions Voilec in the Province of Quebec, Canada. I was curious if it was still being produced or is available, but have not been able to find out anything. It would seem to facilitate easier vision, and the Velcro would allow for replacement when the plastic gets scratched. I guess it wouldn't be too hard to make one if they are not currently on the market. . . Regards, Fred ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 07:19:17 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Feeding Fumidil-B in Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Tim Serrett asked about feeding bees Fumidil-B in honey that came from a solar melter. I wonder (note I am not making a claim) if honey from a solar melter is a good idea because it may have been heated to too high a temperature. I know honey in my solar melter gets darkened quite a bit due to temperature, taste IS altered and I know that scorched honey will cause dysentery. So, is feeding honey from a solar melter a good idea? Regarding unadulterated, disease free honey as a delivery agent for Fumidil-B (F-B), I know of no reason why it cannot be used, although honey is rather thick and I'd imagine it would quite difficult to get the F-B to dissolve - ya think you got problems getting it to dissolve in water? Incidently, I don't see what the big deal is getting Fumidil-B to dissolve. Anyone who can make a good roux or gravy in the kitchen can get F-B mixed into water. Just mix it as you would flour or corn starch into your gravy - add only enough water to the F-B to first make a paste, stir in a little more water to make your paste thinner, keep stirring in more water so your paste keeps getting thinner and thinner and eventually you'll no longer have a paste, you'll have a solution of water and F-B that can be added to your syrup with no problems. It's not rocket science, it's basic chef stuff. But I digress, is honey from a solar melter safe feed for bees? I'd advise against it. Comments? Aaron Morris - thinking potatoes and gravy are a good side dish! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 20:33:20 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Paul Nicholson Subject: Re: Using BEE-L postings in a local beekeeping publication Comments: To: ryarnell@orednet.org In-Reply-To: <199810192323.QAA00462@alto1.altonet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 3:16 PM -0700 10/19/98, Richard Yarnell wrote: >If material is quoted or included in an article you wish to use, you must >approach the author of the quoted passage as well. There is a "fair use" provison in the copyright law that allows you to quote small portions of a work, which is generally used in a review of that work. For example, a book reviewer can quote lines out of a book when reviewing it. Paul Paul Nicholson Electronic Imaging Systems, Inc. TEL 805 532 1068 5148 Commerce Avenue, Unit F FAX 805 532 1065 Moorpark, CA 93021 U.S.A. paul@eisusa.com http://www.eisusa.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 08:19:38 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: Re: Veil with a plastic viewing area Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I have seen soft plastic clear safety goggles where the lens area is one piece and can be replaced by snapping it free of the molded edges. These could readily be fitted to a cutout in the veil with silicone caulk and when the lens becomes obscured it can be replaced. It would also not be terribly difficult to fit some veil to a hard plastic face shield such as one would wear in a lab. Tom in CT ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 08:52:19 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garry Libby Subject: Re: Medium-Depth Division Board Feeders In-Reply-To: <0c6a110030513a8UPIMSSMTPSYS07@email.msn.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tim, Mann Lake Ltd. sells medium division board feeders. The cost is $2.95. Their phone number is 800-233-6663. Garry Libby Boston, USA LibBEE@email.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 13:23:44 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Dalby Subject: Wasps under roofs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Paul wrote on the subject of wasps under his beehive roofs I have replied direct to him but thought others may be interested in my thoughts. He is not many miles north of my bees in hertfordshire. I have learnt over the last 20 years or so to expect queen wasps to be under hive roofs during winter. If you go round and kill them all more will often appear after the next spell of warm weather. Whilst wasps cause beekeepers a lot of trouble in late summer and early autumn it is worth remembering that they do have a purpose in natures great scheme:- They are great scavengers eating huge numbers of caterpillars and other insects earlier in the season. These insects may if not checked reduce the potential nectar yeild of plants that they feed on, thereby possibly reducing eventual honey crop Nothing is ever as simple as it may appear to be in nature. R.O.B. Manley in his book BEEKEEPING IN BRITIAN devotes 2 pages to the problems of wasps publised in 1948 Peter Dalby > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 16:34:34 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rimantas Zujus Subject: Re. Deformed wings Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-4" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Garry and All Sorry, I don't feel difference in Lithuanian in "between " and "among". I want to say when flow is ended one takes off the supers and cures his bees at the time untill next nectar flow begins. During the nectar flow not only the bees encrease in number. The mites do it as well. I noticed myself also that there isn't sufficient to fight the mites twice a year. As concerns 50% shortage of bee life I'll try to contact Dr.Kublickas and to confirm or deny this statement in the LIST later. By the way, with these wings. Today I found the confirmation of the statement of Dr. Kublickas in an old book in Russian: "Album of Beekeeper", issued in Moscow in 1971, Rossseljxozizdat, by G.F.Buxarev, N.S.Kulikov, G.F.Taranov, S.S.Nazarov. I scanned the images and if anybody is interested I can send you 2 pictures of tracheal mites and of damaged bee wings facing ahead, 120 kilobytes each, "*.jpg" Sincerely Yours Rimantas Zujus Kaunas LITHUANIA e-mail : zujus@isag.lei.lt http://www.online.lt/indexs.htm http://www.lei.lt 55 North, 24 East ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 11:46:34 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Using BEE-L postings in a local beekeeping publication MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Tom Barrett asks: > what (are) the ethics, rules, do's and don'ts (for using) some of the > material from the BEE-L postings ....? Q: What happens when you give a lawyer Viagra? A: He grows taller! My understanding regarding the "rules and regs" pertaining to copyright on material posted on the internet is that the "rules and regs" have yet to be ironed out. My non-legal understanding is that the rights belong to and remain with the author and permission must be obtained prior to quoting what they have written. I don't believe the "fair use" provision in copyright laws referred to by Paul Nicholson exempts one from having to obtain permission from the authors (See Who? vs Texaco - Who? is suing/has sued Texaco (or was it Exxon) over photocopying text for use in their labs). Quoting for book reviews is considered quite different than quoting for publication in a magazine which is sold for profit (I assume the "Irish Beekeeper" is not not for profit and I'm not sure if not for profit matters in this or not). I believe the issue is using intellectual property which belongs to others, which is what "posts" are considered. But again, I ain't no legal beagle. I freely quote from BEE-L in the newsletter I write for my beekeeping association, but before I do I extend to those whom I quote the courtesy of a request via E-Mail for permission to use their words. I think in all the years I have never received a refusal and most times I receive thanks for the courtesy. One time I received no response and in that case I did not quote that which I would liked to have used. Bottom line however is that if you quote someone from BEE-L you should ask and receive their permission and you should credit them in your article, just as you would (should) if you were quoting published text. Except unless of course you are quoting Andy who freely grants: "Permission to copy this document in any form, or to print for any use" and wisely warns that "OPINIONS are not necessarily facts, USE AT OWN RISK!" Aaron Morris - thinking I'd rather be wrong and courteous than a lawyer! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 12:23:52 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Quoting material from Bee-L MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I formerly worked for a large publisher of loose-leaf analytical material. Intellectual property, and specifically copyright, was our bread and butter. While I am also not a lawyer, I believe Aaron is essentially correct. The fair use exemption is of particular interest to libraries, who were major customers of ours. Specifically, the photocopy machines in libraries are always in view of staff, to prevent abuse of the copyrights. No one minds copying a few pages, but there is a point where "theft" of copyright material becomes a problem. To be safe and courteous, one should always request permission and provide attribution when directly quoting material. Legally, I believe permission is not expected or required if attribution is made and the amount of material quoted is not significant relative to the original material. For example, of one were to quote and attribute a few paragraphs from a 500 word (more or less 4 pages) article, this would probably be considered as "fair use". Lloyd ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 14:08:42 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Wax and microwaves MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi I was wondering if anyone has tried melting cappings with a microwave and if so, how was it done? Regards, Ian Watson ian@gardener.com real estate agent baritone gardener beekeeper---> 11 colonies ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 18:59:44 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Horacio Villa MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, In http://biology.dbs.umt.edu/bees/home6.htm it says: "PC BEEPOP is versatile and user-friendly. We designed it for use on any = IBM-compatible computer with a hard disk, 640k of available memory, and = a graphics adapter card. Pull-down menus facilitate the entry of initial = honey bee colony size and age structure, foraging profiles, and factors = that influence rates of birth, longevity, and morality..." I'm really interested on knowing what are the main factors that = influence bee's rate of morality. Would "queenlessness" be one? How about drones/queen ratio? Regards, Horacio Villa Buenos Aires - Argentina (I know it's a typo; it's just a good one) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 16:33:30 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk In-Reply-To: <199810202159.PAA00882@selway.umt.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 06:59 PM 10/20/1998 -0300, you wrote: >Hi all, > >In http://biology.dbs.umt.edu/bees/home6.htm it says: >"PC BEEPOP is versatile and user-friendly. We designed it for use on any = >IBM-compatible computer with a hard disk, 640k of available memory, and = >a graphics adapter card. Pull-down menus facilitate the entry of initial = >honey bee colony size and age structure, foraging profiles, and factors = >that influence rates of birth, longevity, and morality..." > >I'm really interested on knowing what are the main factors that = >influence bee's rate of morality. The model removes bees after a user adjusted "flight life" and uses real weather files to determine when individual bees have used up their flight life. This is "normal" life span factor. The user can then enter any number of predation, parasitism, pesticide events, programming the course of events. For example, one can simulate a spray event whereby a toxic pesticide kills 40% of the forager bees on the day of application and then have the model vary the residual chemical toxicity over a period of 1 to several days. > >Would "queenlessness" be one? Definitely, and you could simlulate that. How about drones/queen ratio? The model generates drones/queen ratio from the populations growth curve as influenced by weather and external events. The model also can take into account events such as space limitations and food shortages. Having said that, we are not currently distributing the model. It runs under the older DOS programs, refuses to display its menus under Windows 95 or 98, although it appears to work under Windows NT. When we complete our new research, using artificial neural networks to train models to real colonies and real conditions such as weather and exposure to toxic chemicals, we will revamp Beepop. Jerry > >Regards, > >Horacio Villa >Buenos Aires - Argentina > >(I know it's a typo; it's just a good one) > > Jerry J. Bromenshenk, Ph.D. Director, DOE/EPSCoR & Montana Organization for Research in Energy The University of Montana-Missoula Missoula, MT 59812-1002 E-Mail: jjbmail@selway.umt.edu Tel: 406-243-5648 Fax: 406-243-4184 http://www.umt.edu/biology/more http://www.umt.edu/biology/bees ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 19:14:22 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: Re: Wax and microwaves Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/20/98 5:38:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, realtor@NIAGARA.COM writes: > > I was wondering if anyone has tried melting cappings > with a microwave and if so, how was it done? > I use a 2 gallon dough bucket that frozen muffin dough comes in for so called bakeries. It fits in the microwave rather well and makes a good 1 gallon block of wax. I pack the bucket full of cappings and add about a quart of water which seems to help them melt and sinks any trash that may be in with them. After an initial heat of 6-8 minutes I add more cappings and push them down and then set the microwave for 20 minutes at medium . My microwave is a tired old one yours may heat faster or slower. Tom in CT ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 19:37:06 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Kate Rothacker Subject: Re: Wax and microwaves Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I have melted cappings in my microwave in a glass cup. I use a minute or two, depending on the amount, and watch it to be sure it is completely melted. When all is melted, you will have a layer of wax at the top and honey below. It is very easy, then, to let the wax cool and solidify for removal in one piece (it is much easier to remove when warm than when completely cold). Of course, the impurities will have risen to the top of the honey layer, and will be stuck into the underside of the solidified wax. I brush much of this off under running water, and the rest I remove by skimming when I melt the wax again for molding. Kate R. Pennsylvania ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 21:16:57 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tim Sterrett Subject: Re: Wax and microwaves MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was wondering if anyone has tried melting cappings with a microwave and if so, how was it done? ********************************* I melt wax for candles in a microwave in a double-boiler (wax in a quart canning jar which is set in a cut-off gallon milk jug of water). Remember that the wax will soak up rays from the microwave and get really HOT. I don't know whether it would ignite; don't bet the house on it. Tim -- Tim Sterrett sterrett@voicenet.com (southeastern) Pennsylvania, USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 22:28:35 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Sherry Medders Subject: Bees I am currently dealing with the homing ability of pigeons and there has been many studies of this complicated process and it has now occurred to me that the process used by bees to locate their hive if very likely to be the same, or a similar process as used by pigeons. The thought has occurred to me that Bee Keepers may have struck on the solution through working on a miniature scale and with what certainly appears to be with a great deal more scientific study than has been devoted to the pigeon homing aspect. I was wondering if you would be kind enough to point me in the right direction for any articles on the subject (assuming there are such articles) relating to the homing ability of bees. Leo Turley lturley@net1.nw.com.au With permission from Mr Turley he asked me to forward his question to the list. If you can help this genlteman please do. Thank you. Kind Regards, Sherry Medders beekeeping.guide@miningco.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 22:55:01 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Sherry Medders Subject: When did Honeybees arrive in ... Hi Everyone, With permission from Mr Dennis, he asked me to post this question to the list. If you can help Mr Dennis please email him, he has quite a bit of information on this topic. Thank you. I'm trying to find out when Honeybees firsted arrived in Tenn. Floyd Dennis: floyddennis@mindspring.com Kind Regards, Sherry Medders beekeeping.guide@miningco.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 20:08:56 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Paul Walton Subject: Re: Wasps under roofs In-Reply-To: <908893861.2126661.0@uacsc2.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 In article <908893861.2126661.0@uacsc2.albany.edu>, Peter Dalby writes >Paul wrote on the subject of wasps under his beehive roofs I have replied >direct to him but thought others may be interested in my thoughts. >> Peter, Thank you for your comments. I simply wondered if other people had observed more queen wasps than in previous years. My other apiaries have little / no problem with wasps but this new apiary site does seem to have more than its fair share of them. It is a very good honey production site and I would be inclined to leave the colonies there all year-round if they did not attract too many pests. You raise a very good point about the place that wasps play in the grand scheme of things. I guess that I would just prefer it if there weren't quite so many of them under my hive roofs. A clear case of NIMBY (Not In My Back Yard) -ism, I know! Beekeeping is a wonderful way of getting to know more about the wildlife which inhabits our countryside. I frequently see the occassional deer or fox while checking my colonies during the summer months -- Paul Walton M.B.A. 78 Russell Road, Toddington,Bedfordshire, England LU5 6QF Tel. +44 (0)1525 875570 Fax. +44 (0)1525 875570 Email: Paul@adrem.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 02:43:40 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: PC BEEPOP Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Jerry: >> Pull-down menus facilitate the entry of initial = >>honey bee colony size and age structure, foraging profiles, and factors = >>that influence rates of birth, longevity, and morality..." and later: >The model also can take into account events such as space limitations and >food shortages. I am interested in "space limitations". I am noticing a lower population in some of my very heavy colonies going into winter (47 North here and neither mite), which I am attributing to a honeybound condition in mid to late summer. Does the earlier program also use a neural net, or does it use formulae for calculations? If, the latter then what are the assumptions and factors that the program uses? Does it tell you this, or can you access it from within the program? >Having said that, we are not currently distributing the model. It runs >under the older DOS programs, refuses to display its menus under Windows 95 >or 98, although it appears to work under Windows NT. I hate Windows 95. How can one get the DOS PC BEEPOP? Regards, Stan ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 10:33:33 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rimantas Zujus Subject: Re: Queen wasps hiding under roof Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-4" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Beefriends This year we had more wasps than usually. Since August I noticed wasps to be very brave and aggressive. No nectar flow, no kindness. Some bee keepers lost a part of their colonies. I limited hive entrances even to 4-5 cm (2") and it helped. There is a simple way to fight wasps using clear bottles (plastic or glass) with some juice inside, for e.g. 20% of volume. The juice turn sour (ferments), the wasps go inside a bottle, suck "vine", can't find exit, get tired and drawn. Bees never go in. The bottles should be hanged on tree branches among leaves in late spring. Periodically you have to pour out the content (mixture of insects and liquid) and pour in fresh juice. Best regards Rimantas Zujus Kaunas LITHUANIA e-mail : zujus@isag.lei.lt http://www.online.lt/indexs.htm http://www.lei.lt 55 North, 24 East >Paul Walton wrote: > >> While going through one of my apiaries yesterday, I noticed that some of >> my hives had queen wasps preparing to over-winter on the outside of the >> hive but under the roof. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 22:39:43 +1300 Reply-To: happy.valley.honey@xtra.co.nz Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dot Rawnsley Organization: Happy Valley Honey Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 17 Oct 1998 to 18 Oct 1998 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To Tom Speight We have been beekeeping in New Zealand for about 20 years and have only seen maybe two cases of this Kashmir disease - I think it is also known as "half Moon Disease". It seems to be easily corrected by replacing the failing Queen. We do not know how it affects bees with Varaoa mites as we do not have the dreaded Varaoa in New Zealand (and long may it be so) Bees and Queens from new Zealand are regularly exported to Canada in large quantities every Spring and they are very well received there. Ben Rawnsley > C ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 08:00:13 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andrew & Tiffany Dubas Subject: Wax honey water ? Comments: To: Beekeeper MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Would it be easier when rendering cappings that have honey on them to put water in the double boiler with the cappings ? because on has said that if you boil beeswax in water for 10 minutes it makes the candle dripless. well we did boil wax and water together not on a double boiler and had a fire. lucky we had a fire extinguisher to kill the flames. would the same principle work if it was in the double boiler ? anyone ? because in a double boiler the temp. in not hot enough to boil. ? thanks Andrew ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 08:48:47 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Using BEE-L postings in a local beekeeping publication MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Truth is we are in unexplored territory in using posts in newsgroups in newsletters. If you write a letter to another, is it then their property? When you post, is it the same as a letter to the group and therefor the groups property? It will be interesting to see how this falls out, especially since copyright law seems to be for the monetary protection of the author. And if someone posts in a forem, such as this, are they giving up such rights? I don't know. But for out Maine State newsletter, I send an email to the poster, if I use the post as an article, and ask permisson. I have never been turned down. I also send a copy of the newsletter with the article to the author when I publish it. But there are times when I use parts of a post in an article, usually dealing with different ways to do something. Then I sometimes attribute and sometimes not, depends if the comment is common or uncommon and new- for instance two queen systems or a new way to treat for varroa. The first will probably not get attributes, since you can get the same info from a variety of sources, but the second will get an attribute because it is new and novel. I will have an article in the next newsletter on bee excapes and the results of my trials. I will probably use a few quotes- all non-attributed, just taken from the internet- because it is not new, just the different opinions of beekeepers around the world. But I did get permission for a tanging article, for a hive beetle article, for a bees in war article... you get the picture. My guess is that posts to newsgroups on the internet will probably not be covered by copyright law unless so noted in the message, not the other way around. But courtesy should always be the guide. Not the law or lack therof. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 10:51:21 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: Re: Wax and crockpots Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit A 5 quart crock pot with a 4 qt stainless steel mixing bowl floating in a pint or so of water makes a pretty good double boiler. The initial melt takes a while but it works very well for small scale projects. My mixing bowl is pretty standard size wise and fits the crock pretty well- you may have to do a little shopping to find one the right size. Tom in CT ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 20:14:06 +0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ken Morris Subject: Pollen in Honey and Hay Fever MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is my first post to BEE-L: I have been lurking in the background for a couple of years now, and have found the postings to this list to be very informative, with a minimum of rubbish. I am a small commercial beekeeper in Western Australia, and today a client for whom I was removing some nuisance bees asked a question I couldn't answer..... Does eating locally-produced raw honey reduce ones reaction to airborne pollen i.e. hay fever? He had heard claims made to this effect, and thought that, as a beekeeper, I should know the truth. I thought it a very good question. I can see that it might be of help if ingesting and digesting samples of the local pollen produces any degree of tolerance. On the other hand, I don't know that breathing and eating the stuff are in any way equivalent vis-a-vis allergies. I hope this first attempt to glean some information from the BEE-L readership bears fruit. Thank you all for the information and entertainment I have received so far. Regards, Ken Morris Hillgrove Farm, Batavia Coast, Western Australia Phone: (08) 9926 1087 Fax: (08) 9926 1338 http://www.wn.com.au/hillgrove Bees & Honey, Beekeeping Software and Website Design. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 08:34:28 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Laura Lemay Subject: Re: Using BEE-L postings in a local beekeeping publication In-Reply-To: <199810211253.FAA24826@slack.lne.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 8:48 AM -0400 10/21/98, Bill Truesdell wrote: >Truth is we are in unexplored territory in using posts in newsgroups in >newsletters. Is it the same as a letter to the group and therefor the >groups property? It will be interesting to see how this falls out, >especially since copyright law seems to be for the monetary protection of >the author. And if someone posts in a forem, such as this, are they giving >up such rights? I don't know. All the things you mention are covered under current copyright law. If you send a letter to someone, that person owns the *copy*, but has no rights to the content. By default, an author is automatically guaranteed copyright on any bits of writing as soon as they are created (you don't even need to add a copyright symbol anymore). Nothing goes into the public domain unless the author explicitly assigns it so -- even when there isn't any money involved. Even for letters to the editor, this is still the case. Usually the newsletter or newspaper has to inclue a statement in the section along the lines of "all letters become the property of the newspaper" BEFORE the author writes the letter. The act of submission assigns the rights to the newspaper or group, but *only* because its explcitly spelled out that way. "Fair use" is another issue, and kind of sticky. Fair use usually only applies to select passages of a work. Small ones. You'd have a very hard time arguing that reproducing an entire posting from the net counted as fair use. But there hasn't, to my knowledge, ever been a court case yet which challenges whether net publishing (writing for newsgroups or mailing lists) is different from real publishing, or just what fair use means in the context of a net posting. Until that happens, however, its safe to assume that current copyright law applies. Even if it didn't, this isn't "uncharted territory". We have conventions for the reuse of postings on the net, conventions that were set years and years ago. If you want to reuse someone's posting in any medium other than the list or newsgroup, net or otherwise, then ask the original poster for permission. Its as simple as that. You certainly won't fall afoul of any laws that way, and its the safe, ethical, *nice* thing to do. Sorry to be so stringent in my very first BEE-L posting, but this is one of those things that I see come up again and again and that people seem to be continually confused about. And while I'm here: I'm looking for a source for hives (just a couple) in the San Francisco Bay Area to get started beekeeping next year. Shipping from other states is really expensive, and I'd like to find something closer. Thanks. Laura ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 08:43:18 -0700 Reply-To: ryarnell@orednet.org Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard Yarnell Subject: Re: Using BEE-L postings in a local beekeeping publication Copyright protects the author's intellectual property. Whether or not the author's work is posted on a public bbs or list (in this case, which has more limited distribution) the work remains the author's. It is more than courtesy to seek permission and to attribute the source. Nothing could dry up the internet as a fountain of information more quickly than the practice of cribbing other folks' work. I can assure you that profeesionals in all disciplines would be much less likely to share their work in open forums. Your present practice certainly seems appropriate. But I'd err on the side of acknowledgement even when it appears that material was passed on to the list from a third source. Based on an online "course" I participated in several years ago (it was called Cyberlaw), I don't think this is unexplored territory at all. >Truth is we are in unexplored territory in using posts in newsgroups in >newsletters...especially since copyright law seems to be for the monetary >protection of the author. >And if someone posts in a forem, such as this, are they giving up such >rights? No! And you don't want them to - their clear choice then would be to not respond on the net and this would be a poorer place for the loss. > But for out Maine State newsletter, I send an email to the poster, if I >use the post as an article, and ask permisson. I have never been turned >down. I also send a copy of the newsletter with the article to the author >when I publish it. >But there are times when I use parts of a post in an article, usually >dealing with different ways to do something. Then I sometimes attribute and >sometimes not, depends if the comment is common or uncommon and new-... Citation of some sort, particularly in a case where the anecdotes are sourced from many places in the world, would be at least instructive and would certainly take you off the hook if you were ever questioned about the use of what someone else considered copyrighted or original material. >I will have an article in the next newsletter on bee excapes and the results >of my trials. I will probably use a few quotes- all non-attributed, just >taken from the internet- because it is not new, just the different opinions >of beekeepers around the world. On this point, I think you have it entirely backwards. As soon as an author writes something, copyright exists and is lodged with the author, whether professional or not. >My guess is that posts to newsgroups on the internet will probably not be >covered by copyright law unless so noted in the message, not the other way >around. But courtesy should always be the guide. Not the law or lack therof. >Bill Truesdell >Bath, ME > > -- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 09:54:27 -0700 Reply-To: robert@objectdata.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert MacKimmie Subject: Re: Pollen in Honey and Hay Fever ... Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 4.2mach v148) In response to Ken Morris' inquiry about allergies and relief from honey, it is "common wisdom" that many people have through family tradition. On a good Saturday during peak allergy season, I have had as many as five people showing up at the Farmer's Market in San Francisco to get their allergy medicine refills. A blend from all hives in our local microclimates provide overall allergy relief that is somewhat more enjoyable than a shot in the rump. One woman said that she stopped taking the local blend honey and her allergies came back in about 3 weeks. We sell it suggesting a tablespoon a day. "They" say it works. We have been unsuccessful with cat-hair and dust-bunny allergy relief honeys thus far. Cheers. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 19:53:16 +0300 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jan Tempelman Organization: Home Subject: Re: Wax and microwaves MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit don't use a microwave and honey all enzym will disappear in minutes and what is left is suckerwater with a funny taste see the graphics on http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/EnzThem.html grreting, jan Ian Watson wrote: > > Hi > > I was wondering if anyone has tried melting cappings > with a microwave and if so, how was it done? > -- ------------------------------------------------- home of the drone frame method. de darreraat methode ------------------------------------------------- http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/index3.html Jan Tempelman mailto:jtemp@xs4all.nl Sterremos 16 3069 AS Rotterdam, The Netherlands Tel/Fax (SOMETIMES) XX 31 (0)10-4569412 ------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 14:00:55 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tim Sterrett Subject: Re: Pollen in Honey and Hay Fever MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ken Morris wrote: Does eating locally-produced raw honey reduce ones reaction to airborne pollen i.e. hay fever? ********************** Not for me, a beekeeper since 1971. (The archives may have info on this. I think I've typed this same reply before.) Tim -- Tim Sterrett sterrett@voicenet.com (southeastern) Pennsylvania, USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 14:05:55 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: david yates Subject: "Bee bee" Tree Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Just returned to hobby beekeeping after a 15+ year hiatus. The Bee-L is very informative. I do have a question. Many (20) years ago I bought some plants etc from a place (Pelham (?) Gardens) that specializerd in items for bees. I received two small bare rooted "trees" called in the catalog, Bee Bee trees. One died and the other has flourished. It is about 20-22 feet high, and produces myriads of very small yellowish flowers in the spring. The bees truly go wild over them and they last for weeks. The leaves somewhat resembel black walnut leaves, that is a central stem with multiple leaves branching off, and the bark is brown/gray and fairly smooth. Does anyone know the scientific name, and more importantly where I can get another one? Thanks! Dave Tennessee ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 20:33:57 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Beekeepers in Asia/India/Japan Hi All I was just wondering if anybody from the list is from Asia/India/Japan - we seem to have people from all the other continents putting a word in every now and then, but I have seen little from these areas - which are the worlds largest beekeeping sectors. Anybody have any contacts? Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis 6139 South Africa Time = Honey If you are not living on the edge you are taking up too much space!! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 10:08:43 -0600 Reply-To: darn@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Donald Aitken Subject: Re: Wax and microwaves In-Reply-To: <199810211130.FAA31574@fn1.freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > Remember that the wax will soak up rays from the microwave and get > really HOT. I don't know whether it would ignite; don't bet the house on it. In fact, pure beeswax is not heated at all in a microwave. The heating observed in cappings is due to the impurities (in this case honey) present with it. Donald Aitken 11710-129 Street Edmonton Alberta Canada T5M 0Y7 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 10:48:33 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mark Gosswiller Subject: MS and Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I have a close friend that was just diagnosed with MS. Does anyone know of any web sites that I could go get information on Bee venom for MS. I have heard that there is a possibility that bee venom helps...You can e-mail me direct if you wish. Mark_Gosswiller@bc.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 14:16:58 -0400 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: Pollen in Honey and Hay Fever ... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Robert MacKimmie wrote: > In response to Ken Morris' inquiry about allergies and relief from honey, it > is "common wisdom" that many people have through family tradition. On a good > Saturday during peak allergy season, I have had as many as five people > showing up at the Farmer's Market in San Francisco to get their allergy > medicine refills. A blend from all hives in our local microclimates provide > overall allergy relief that is somewhat more enjoyable than a shot in the > rump. > > One woman said that she stopped taking the local blend honey and her > allergies came back in about 3 weeks. We sell it suggesting a tablespoon a > day. "They" say it works. Here is an example of the classic difference between treatment based on the scientific method and anecdotal remedies. I, too, often get requests for honey to use in allaying symptoms of hay fever. People want it "raw", "unfiltered", etc. But is there any logic behind these requests? What is the relation between inhaling an antigen (which is picked up directly in the lungs by immune cells) and ingesting a protein containing particle (pollen) which then immediately goes into the digestive tract and is broken down into its basic components before the body is ever exposed to it? I can't see the logic at all. And, even if it would work, why would one want to self-dose with an antigen that could possibly kill you with a general allergic reaction? I always flatly refuse any such requests on the basis that I cannot practice medicine without a license. On the other hand, if one wants to buy honey for their own purposes, it is not my business to inquire what it is to be used for. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 15:35:28 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Honey and allergies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ken asked "Does eating locally-produced raw honey reduce ones reaction to airborne pollen i.e. hay fever?" My wife, who suffered from air-borne pollen allergies for years before we were married, claims she was "cured" by using our unfiltered honey. Perhaps more important, we just met a new couple in town who are both doctors. One of the first things they did on visiting here to look for a home was find a local beekeeper (me) who did not extract his honey, but "drained honey from crushed comb" (the words in quotes were their requirements). One of this pair has terrible allergies. They explained they have moved several times and found that allergic symptoms can be prevented by eating "raw" honey from the new location for 6-8 weeks before moving. They attributed this build up of resistance to trace amounts of pollen in the honey. For what it is worth, they claimed that any heating destroyed trace pollens, and the amount of trace pollens were increased by using honey from crushed comb that had been drained. Lloyd LloydSpear@email.msn.com Owner, Ross Rounds(tm) the finest in comb honey production. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 16:18:23 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Conrad Sigona Subject: Re: MS and Bees In-Reply-To: <199810211842.OAA23764@newport.ntcnet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > I have a close friend that was just diagnosed with MS. Does anyone know of > any web sites that I could go get information on Bee venom for MS. I have > heard that there is a possibility that bee venom helps...You can e-mail me > direct if you wish. http://www.sci.fi/~apither There's also a listserver. Send email to listserv@beenet.pp.se with SUBSCRIBE APITHER in the text. Conrad Sigona conrad@ntcnet.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 21:18:27 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Murray McGregor Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 17 Oct 1998 to 18 Oct 1998 In-Reply-To: <908833064.2028356.0@uacsc2.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 In article <908833064.2028356.0@uacsc2.albany.edu>, Tom Speight writes >In message <908769742.1110703.0@uacsc2.albany.edu>, Automatic digest >processor writes >>The advice on requeening in the UK >>is usually to rear queens yourself if at all possible. >Chris, I agree entirely with this. What is your local reaction to the >news that MAFF intend to allow the import of package bees from NZ.? >The concern in Cumbria is that it will bring in more trouble with >Kashmir bee Virus, which we undersatnd is one of the diseases infecting >bees there. >Does anyone (in Germany perhaps, where they already import them) know of >the effect of this virus in conjuction with varroa? >NZ is fortunate in not having the mite -probably dur to their RIGIDLY >ENFORCED importation regulatons. >-- >Tom S Dear Tom, Whilst in an ideal world it would be great for us to have a good supply of queens bred from our own strains available at the right time of year (May) it is alas not practicable to do so without using the climatic benefits of areas better placed than ours. Much talk goes on in the UK about the benefits of local strains for local conditions and about the negative aspects of other types. Particular distaste is often expressed for imported strains of whatever origin happens to be under discussion at the time, in this case New Zealand. I'm afraid I take a different viewpoint, which is politically incorrect here in Britain at the moment, the reasons for which are several. Firstly, Buckfast is revered (I know! Not by everyone.) in Britain. Their bee is a cocktail of foreign genetic material assembled over many years of selected imports. This would never have happened without imports. ( We don't use them, but I know several people who do, and some swear by them and others curse them.) The native bee much sought after is not really so at all. After the Isle of Wight disease early this century the country was restocked with foreign bees. Much good and bad genetic material was brought in and a sort of convergent natural selection took place which eventually has produced, in certain areas, something approaching the old native bee. Local strains are often not all that well adapted to modern farming tendencies, or perhaps to the heavily migratory beekeeping we do. The advent in the early 80's of winter rape here in Eastern scotland is a case in point. Older local strains are not adapted to the early build up required to exploit this source. If you want to get a good crop off it you have to go with a bee quicker off the mark in spring. Our local bees here also tend to be mid to late season swarmers, and generally of lowish vigour, yet we are dependant on heather for our commercial viability and must make efforts to adjust their natural cycle to maximise the number of powerful colonies we can get up to the moors. Secondly, why is there a problem with the package bees you mention? New Zealand queens have been coming into the UK for many many years, and certain breeders/importers like Peter Kemble have brought them in and resold them all over the UK. They have been tried in our area but proved to be a bit soft. Despite the large numbers which have come in I have heard no stories of decimation by KBV. Several people who have had them have reported that, once assimilated into their strain, a bit of this blood helped with vigour. I am also wary of the doomsday messages which circulate about imported bees and what they may bring in with them. Many of the people simply accept scare stories as put by parties for various reasons ranging from genuine concern to outright scaremongering. Often the person has a motive for promoting this kind of line. Let's be cautious, yes, and take sensible precautions against disasters, but let's not go down the 'ban everything' route. KBV is widespread, and apart from in the scare stories aimed at keeping NZ bees out, I have never heard of it being other than a secondary pest. I also am not aware of whether there has even been any serious research done to ascertain if it is present in Britain. One thing is certain, the anti importation lobby will come up with some other disease or pest after this one is found here to cite as grounds for banning imports, and so on through whatever ailment they can find, however minor. I understand the concern of people regarding viruses, especially in conjunction with varroa, and many of these are serious, but I believe that KBV is no more serious a threat than many of the viruses already here. The most successful strain of bee we have ever used was the New World Carniolan. This was bred by Sue Cobey in California but aimed to a more northern clientele. In our area it proved industrious, frugal with stores, gentle, a good heather bee, and was as winter hardy as anything else we have ever had. Our borders closed to these bees in the late 80's and we have been unable to import them ever since. This has hampered our enterprise as annual spring requeening eliminates all but a little of the arduous hours of swarm control effort otherwise required, and thus curtails our potential crop. We have now located a breeder of this strain in an area where it is legal to import from and now have a licence to do so. Bees suited to your environment being bred in other climates in order to get an early start is not at all unusual. Carniolans are bred in Hawaii and throughout the southern USA. Buckfasts are bred in Texas. There are many other examples of this and the main reason is to provide early queens and packages for northern areas. Even in Europe it goes on, for example the Danes send their selected queens from the previous year to Greece where they have an isolated breeding station. They then get new seasons mated laying queens, bred from their own bees, sent back to them in May. I would love to be able to do this to but unfortunately (from my point of view) UK laws forbid it as we are still outside the infested area for varroa, although it has now been found a mere 20 miles away. Where these southern bred bees do not work for you, and many will not, it is often that you have chosen the wrong strain or that the quality was poor, but it does not mean that all imported bees are bad. I will not be importing NZ bees. They do not work well in our area, but several people in the south report that they are excellent for them. I believe that they should be allowed to get on with it as NZ bees are amongst the healthiest in the world, and we in the UK are no disease free paradise awaiting invasion by a host of nasty exotic ailments. Most of these things are here now. And life goes on despite them. And will continue to do so. Kind regards to all -- Murray McGregor murray@denrosa.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 22:15:51 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Dalby Subject: Re: "Bee bee" Tree MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Yates asked about the botanical name for the Bee Bee tree I believe this is what we in England call the Chinese Bee tree It used to be called Evodia daniellii but the botanists have now renamed it Tetradia daniellii There is also some debate as to whether T huphenensis is a separate species or a subspecies [hope my spelling is correct]. Richard Taylor who writes for Bee Culture? may be able to help you with a supplier of this stateside. He was offering seeds at one time. I have a supply of trees available in England. Peter Dalby, England ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 22:23:38 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Dalby Subject: Re: Wax and microwaves MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I would be very wary of melting cappings in a microwave. It can be done but I would use a low power level because if you heat too quickly the honey may boil. By boiling honey under a layer of molten wax you have the potential of a very explosive mixture if you try stirring this with anything. I have had this happen in a water bath where wax covered the water surface and suffered a nasty burn. You will also adulterate the honey by heating too hot. It will caramelise and give an off taste which renders the honey only suitable for cooking with not selling or feeding to bees. The wax also takes on a very brittle texture and was not really suitable for turning into candles or blocks and was really only suitable for incorporating into polish or trading into the foundation manufacturers where it would be mixed with large quantities of other wax. We have in the past melted honey, in buckets, in the microwave but done this slowly so that any wax melted with the honey and did not form a complete layer on the top. Barbara Dalby, England ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 22:39:51 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Dalby Subject: Re: Wax honey water ? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Regarding the query on melting wax in water. Bee aware that water added to wax saponifies, i.e. goes soapy, and cannot be retrieved. The only water that should be used is rain water or distilled water and even then I would not recommend boiling the two together. See my other comment the water boils easier than the wax consequently an explosive mixture as you found. Hence the fire. I have melted wax in a steam wax melter and also in double boilers (one old saucepan in the top of another). This is by far the best method. Barbara Dalby England ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 22:47:14 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Barbara Dalby Subject: Re: Pollen in Honey and Hay Fever MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi there, A couple of suggestions for you. Honey in the comb, ie as the bees have made it is the best for anything like this as it has nothing taken out, is not heat treated and contains all the honey, pollen and even small quantities of propolis which all help with allergies. If you require further help on this I suggest that you contact the Apither List which is specifically for apitherapy interests the web site of that is http://www.sci.fi/~apither and the details of how to subscribe can be obtained from there otherwise contact me direct and I will give you the information. Barbara Dalby, England. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 16:43:47 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ian Subject: Re: MS and Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi The American Apitherapy Society has a website at: http://www.beesting.com/mainpage.html They have a lot of info about several diseases which may be helped with bee stings, including MS. Regards, Ian Watson ian@gardener.com real estate agent baritone gardener beekeeper---> 11 colonies >I have a close friend that was just diagnosed with MS. Does anyone know of >any web sites that I could go get information on Bee venom for MS? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 20:23:11 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Paolo Bentivoglio Subject: wintering I am a new beekeeper in west central New Hampshire who has been reading with great interest the debate on wintering bees with or without insulation. A local old timer has recommended to me a winter box filled with three inches of wood shavings around the hive. I would love to hear of others experiences Thank you Paolo Bentivoglio ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 18:19:37 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Green Subject: Re: Wax honey water ? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/21/98 5:57:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, peter.pebadale@VIRGIN.NET writes: > Regarding the query on melting wax in water. Bee aware that water added to > wax saponifies, i.e. goes soapy, and cannot be retrieved. The only water > that should be used is rain water or distilled water and even then I would > not recommend boiling the two together. The saponification is caused by lime in the water. If you have hard well water, it definitely will saponify. Soft water may not. So it all depends on your water supply. You can bypass the problem by acidifying the water. The easiest, cheapest way is to add a little vinegar to your water. We use about 5% table vinegar to 95% water, and never have saponification, as long as we do this. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html The Pollination Home Page: http://www.pollinator.com Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 18:47:40 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Microwaves etc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for all the responses to my query about melting wax in a microwave. Sounds like the double boiler method seems best and safest. Regards, Ian Watson ian@gardener.com real estate agent baritone gardener beekeeper---> 11 colonies ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 19:56:33 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tim Sterrett Subject: Wax and Microwaves MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Donald, in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada, wrote to remind me that: "pure beeswax is not heated at all in a microwave." He is correct. I just went and tried to heat a small chunk of beeswax in a microwave oven. If wax is put with or in water, the water heats, and that heat melts the wax. Tim -- Tim Sterrett sterrett@voicenet.com (southeastern) Pennsylvania, USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 19:32:53 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Steve Newcomb Subject: Re: Wax honey water ? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm new at beekeeping, and have only rendered about 10# of wax. This is what I did to get pretty good looking wax After melting the wax in the solar melter, I put chunks of it in a 1# coffee can. I then added about 2 cups of water to the cold wax. I placed the coffee can in a pan of water, and brought the water in the PAN to a boil. The water in the coffee can did not boil, but it did get hot enough to melt all of the wax. When the wax was melted, I poured it thru a window screen strainer into a plastic bowl. The screen caught any big chunks of stuff. The hot wax floated to the top of the hot water. I let everything cool off, then removed the wax and washed it. I was left with nice clean wax. Steve Elyria, Ohio ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 20:34:32 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: Re: Pollen in Honey and Hay Fever ... Comments: To: tvf@umich.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Ted Fischer wrote: > But is there any logic behind these requests? What is the relation >between inhaling an antigen (which is picked up directly in the lungs by immune >cells) and ingesting a protein containing particle (pollen) which then >immediately goes into the digestive tract and is broken down into its basic >components before the body is ever exposed to it? I can't see the logic at >all. And, even if it would work, why would one want to self-dose with an >antigen that could possibly kill you with a general allergic reaction? Antigens can affect the body through the digestive tract. After all, isn't that how food allergies work? However, in the case of hayfever, the antigen is picked up by the respiratory system, and the histamines produced affect the respiratory system. But your own post indicates that the digestive system is a much more resistant system and tends to break down the antigens. I always figured that was why eating the antigen was a slow way to acclimatize the body to the antigen and get it to stop producing so much histamine. The fact that beekeepers get resistant to stings shows that the body can get used to antigens and reduce its production of histamines. Anyway, that is just my layman's two cents worth. But I would not be quick to dismiss persistent folk remedies. They arose from experimentation and experience. Regards, Stan ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 16:25:13 PDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ross Peters Subject: Bee Pictures on the Net Content-Type: text/plain Hi All, Does anyone out there know of a Web Site which has a wide collection of clear pictures with descriptions, so that I can try to work out what is happening in my hive. Thanks very much R ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 22:11:44 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Marvin Walker Subject: Re: "Bee bee" Tree MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Forest Farm in Williams, OR has the Evodia (Tetradium) daniellii.Known as the Bee Bee Tree. There Phone number is 541-846-7269 These are young trees in tubes so there is not much expense to ship. The price is 5.95 per tube. Hope this helps. Marvin Walker Springdale, Arkansas -- MZ=90 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 21:09:17 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Al Needham Subject: Re: Beekeepers in Asia/India/Japan On Wed, 21 Oct 1998 20:33:57 GMT+0200 Garth writes: >I was just wondering if anybody from the list is from >Asia/India/Japan - ................. It seems to me Garth that we did have someone, maybe a year or more ago, from either China or Taiwan, I think it was China, that posted here a few times. I also have a " vague recollection " that there may have been a language misunderstanding which might have terminated the two-way conversation, i.e., between that person and one or more others on the List. Since we often seem sensitive to an allegation(s) in regard to our respective country, I would have thought that if there still were a member(s) from China, that some recent remarks on this List would have been challenged by same member(s). Anyone else recall the above ..... Andy ..... Aaron .....???? Al ..................................................................... <"Mailto: awneedham@juno.com" > Scituate,Massachusetts,USA The Beehive-Educational Honey Bee Site Check Our Beekeeping Books & Videos http://www.xensei.com/users/alwine ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]