========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 20:58:42 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Elizabeth Vogt Subject: French Beekeeping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Bee-Liners --- Some beekeepers from France (sorry I don't know from which regions --- I just found out this eve.) will be visiting me tomorrow (Sunday, Nov. 8). I am a hobbyist with 5 hives (more next year!). Anyone on line who could provide me with a quick update of concerns of BK's in that country ? I'm trying to prepare for some questions they may have re: our concerns vs. theirs ... Thanks to anyone who has some info. Sincerely, Elizabeth ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 12:02:30 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: mite resistant bees on gums Hi All Mushashi you theorized on how the bees Steve saw, kept in gums without frames may have survived the mites. I have another theory. Old hives get cells which are packed with many layers of silk and the bees from these hives are smaller than from younger hives. The bees also would in theory hatch a bit faster due to the smaller size. Hence the mites would have to stay on the drones as they would not be able to complete alife cycle on the worker brood. I have come accross some hives which had been in the same spot for as long as 30 years and have removed them and found the majority of the hive to be a foul smelling mess with pitch black combs - in places the bees had even chewed the combs to the base making 'foundation' but did not appear to have drawn them out again. These bees were both mean and small - the meanness may help with keeping away raiders and 'enemy' drones with mites on. I gather mites usually spread on drones which move from hive to hive with a mite on their back - if the hive was so unreasonable, as small bees are likely to be, they may have not let drones in. Just an idea. this would als0o explaing why the hive in ahouse mentioned earlier was aslo alive -old hive, small cells. Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis 6139 South Africa Time = Honey If you are not living on the edge you are taking up too much space!! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 09:05:21 -0500 Reply-To: dublgully@worldnet.att.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Gaida Subject: mite resistant bees on gums MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The gentleman whose hive was weed covered and had never been opened since installation in the spring -- He bought his bees from a beekeeper who keeps his bees in gums. The gums are about 3 feet high. He never removes the bees from the gums, just adds supers to the top for honey. Recall that the bees were mean and very healthy. Judy in Ky, USA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 13:33:18 -0700 Reply-To: fltdeck1@ix.netcom.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Matthew Subject: Re: mite resistant bees by neglect? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sounds like the 20 or so hives next door to my property. Every now & then I'll walk over to his hives & have a look at what they're doing and the bees are nasty as ever. They try to sting me from 20 feet away. I'm assuming they're mean because of the constant robbing from the yellow-jackets living in the lower sections of some of his hives (I see them coming & going in great numbers) and from the mice (dead ones everywhere). Mite-resistant? Perhaps, because they've survived (mostly) up to now. But I feel sorry for these bees on every glance. Weeds grow up from all directions, blocking their path to land (which I've pulled on occasion). There's large holes from the winter & sun blowing out the sides of the hives. I'm sure this bekeeper has some success with the mites by natural selection, but mites aren't everything....what about AFB or other diseases? He's not doing the bees nor us any favor by neglecting his hives. Matthew in Castle Rock, CO David Gaida wrote: > The gentleman whose hive was weed covered and had never been opened > since > installation in the spring -- He bought his bees from a beekeeper who > > keeps his bees in gums. The gums are about 3 feet high. He never > removes > the bees from the gums, just adds supers to the top for honey. Recall > that > the bees were mean and very healthy. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 18:25:58 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Elizabeth Vogt Subject: Re: french beekeepers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks to Lloyd Spear for his response to my query re: concerns of beekeepers in France. His remarks were exactly what we talked about ! (Topics below) Their concerns were: > - Varroa > - An insecticide used on sunflowers that is "confusing" bees, so that their > homing instinct is interrupted and they cannot find the way back to the > beehive. (The insecticide in question cannot be used in the US.) > - How to avoid the increasing amounts of canola (rape) that is being grown. > The resulting honey is granulating in the comb, making extraction very > difficult and ruining comb honey production. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 21:51:16 -0500 Reply-To: vcoppola@froggernet.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Re: mite resistant bees on gums MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Garth wrote: > I have another theory. Old hives get cells which are packed with many > layers of silk and the bees from these hives are smaller than from > younger hives. The bees also would in theory hatch a bit faster due > to the smaller size. Hence the mites would have to stay on the > drones as they would not be able to complete alife cycle on the > worker brood. > I doubt the small cell or the infrequent handling theory mentioned in another post. Just a few years after the onset of varroa there are practically no feral colonies here in Western New York. Farmers and long time residents have told me of bee trees that have been around for many years, were always populated and are now dead. Gardeners and vegetable farmers tell us there are no bees visiting their crops. It seems likely that many of these colonies had small cells as you mentioned and bee trees are seldom disturbed by beekeepers. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 09:30:34 +1100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: beeload Subject: rough handling Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit it has been found here in Australia that bees lifted by hand do stress more than bees lifted by the BILLETT EASY LOADER. it is also found that the beekeeper is also less stressed when using the best hive loader ever built just ask any Australian beekeeper which loader you should have. check out the web page on www.om.com.au/beeload 20%of Australian beekeepers have these loaders. In conclusion to the loader not only makes the bees calm it also helps the beekeeper keep his temperment at a passive level. Darrell Copeman. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 07:33:04 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Eugene Wyatt Organization: Catskill Merino Subject: Re: O to 60 in Bees, Thanks MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To all of you who have advised courage, caution and furnished references, thank you. I will keep your thoughts in mind as I continue to investigate going forward with bees and beekeeping. Eugene Wyatt -- Australian Superfine Merino Sheep Swan Lake, New York USA http://www.zelacom.com/~wyatt/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 07:59:59 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ruary Rudd Subject: Re: Mite losses in July/August MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: AL Date: 06 November 1998 15:56 Subject: Re: Mite losses in July/August >Musashi wrote: , they >> would most likely have had a lot more drones raised than an ordinary hive. >> In that case, since mites reproduce predominantly on drone brood when it is >> available, then the drones would have been more affected by the mites than >> the workers and the overall hive would have been healthier. > >Al then said >This is an angle I don't fully understand. It runs contrary to a notion >of mite control in which the *absence* of drones leads to a reduced mite >population. Absence of drones means absence of mite incubators - or at >least the mite's preferred incubator. >(snip) > now I find myself following a thread that runs contrary >to that info. >(Snip) >. As for me I'm sticking with the >theory that the best drone population is no drone population - except >for that one necessary and short lived function. And I'm talking bees >only:) > >AL > The absence of drones leading to a reduced mite population derives from the longer time that drone brood remains in the cell allowing at least one more varroa mite to mature per female varroa. Because it thus gives them a better increase in numbers, the mites have eveolved to selct drone brood in preference to worker brood. Because of this, the removal of the drone brood is a well known method of removing mites from the hive, the drone brood working as a trap. A search through the archives on " drone traps" would probably give a lot of information. Ruary Rudd rrudd@tinet.ie ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 11:07:27 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Murray McGregor Subject: Re: mite resistant bees on gums In-Reply-To: <910523217.2118517.0@uacsc2.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 In article <910523217.2118517.0@uacsc2.albany.edu>, Garth writes >I have another theory. Old hives get cells which are packed with many >layers of silk and the bees from these hives are smaller than from >younger hives. The bees also would in theory hatch a bit faster due >to the smaller size. Hence the mites would have to stay on the >drones as they would not be able to complete alife cycle on the >worker brood. >this would als0o explaing why the hive in ahouse mentioned earlier >was aslo alive -old hive, small cells. Whilst not seeking to dispute the fact that many layers of silk do remain on cell walls, in our experience this is of little importance. We have a small number of combs in service here which are around 50 years old. We know this because they have a peculiar wiring system in the form of a welded grid that we have never used since my father went into bees in 1950. We do not notice these cells being appreciably smaller than comparatively recent combs, yet they have probably had around 200 generations of brood through them. We also have some Pierco plastic frames in service which gave me cause to doubt the 'fact' that bees leave the silk in the cells forever. Each spring as the brood nest expands the bees seem to clean the cells out and dump the fine brown dust outside. In the case of these combs, they are completely black in the autumn after the breeding season, yet immediately prior to being laid in in spring they are cleaned up to white and translucent again in the base of the cells whereas the side walls remain quite dark. I would agree that old wax combs become ferociously tough and papery, and that there are definitely lots of cocoons right into the base, but would suggest that perhaps there is a tolerance level of the thickness of midrib and cell wall material (or more likely cell size) the bees will allow before having a partial clean out. The thickness of the midrib in the plastic foundation may thus be a factor in them cleaning these right out each spring. We do have noticeable variations in bee size, but reckon that this is more down to genetic variation and nutrition than anything else. Murray -- Murray McGregor ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 04:07:18 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Apiservices Subject: Re: French Beekeeping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 You can look at http://www.beekeeping.com/countries/france.htm You will find some up-to-date information and five links if you need more= =2E Gilles RATIA - gilles.ratia@apiservices.com Webmaster of the "Virtual Beekeeping Gallery" - http://www.beekeeping.com= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 08:17:38 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Steve Davis Subject: Re: mite resistant bees on gums MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There are still a few occupied bee trees in this area (western West Virginia) and one of the largest swarms I captured this year came from a house in town that is said to have been there for many years. AFB is not a problem here so this may help. Speaking of small cell size, I noticed my older hives without queen excluders move up into new honey supers as I add them through the summer. I know this could be from many reasons but wonder if bees do prefer newer comb. Steve Davis >I doubt the small cell or the infrequent handling theory mentioned in >another post. Just a few years after the onset of varroa there are >practically no feral colonies here in Western New York. Farmers and long >time residents have told me of bee trees that have been around for many >years, were always populated and are now dead. Gardeners and vegetable >farmers tell us there are no bees visiting their crops. It seems likely >that many of these colonies had small cells as you mentioned and bee >trees are seldom disturbed by beekeepers. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 09:37:52 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andrew & Tiffany Dubas Subject: moving bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, Simple question : for the commercial beekeepers who move bees often, I only have 70 colonies and have a few small contracts for 5-6 colonies some who only get 1 or two, anyway I move them all by hand, on and off, my question is do you close the entrances ? I normally use steel wool in the entrance. but I was wondering when you are moving tractor trailer loads do you close all the entrances ? also how do I get to the B-L archives ? Andrew & Tiffany Dubas E-Mail : dubees@enter.net home page : http://www.enter.net/~dubees ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 17:11:10 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rimantas Zujus Subject: Re: B-L archives Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-4" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Andrew & Tiffany Dubas & All I send you a copy from my archives: "Send a message to the list server that handles the BEE-L list LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU ) containing only the line: SEARCH BEE-L tracheal mites It will return a list of posts that contain the words "tracheal mites" (and article numbers -- such as 13643) ." Good search Rimantas Zujus Kaunas LITHUANIA e-mail : zujus@isag.lei.lt http://www.online.lt/indexs.htm http://www.lei.lt 55 North, 24 East >also how do I get to the B-L archives ? >Andrew & Tiffany Dubas ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 09:42:25 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Bees in the trees? In-Reply-To: <199811091318.FAA19340@mx1.thegrid.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:17 AM 11/9/98 -0500, you wrote: >There are still a few occupied bee trees in this area (western West >Virginia) and one of the largest swarms I captured this year came from a >house in town that is said to have been there for many years. AFB is not a >problem here so this may help. Hi Steve and Friends, "Yes, Virginia there still are bees in the trees." If this is not a quote from a famous Christmas letter it should be. Virginia is not the only area in the US that still has bee trees but you would never believe it by what is quoted in the hype we are exposed to every day about our bees. What started as a simple observation in one area of the US has exploded by its re-telling into a problem that never was. As long as bees swarm there will be bee trees and this is the bottom line. Sure bees in the trees suffer the same as bees in our hives from the problem of the day be it lack of pasture, poor forging conditions as well as disease, pests, and predators. There is NO separate feral or wild honey bee populations despite what some would like to believe. What makes the feral population different is the competition for nesting sites and some natural selection but most important is the number of kept hives in any one area that naturally restock the bee trees. Today we practice a migratory system of beekeeping trading our production for gasoline by keeping our bees on wheels. This has caused a great change in swarming patterns with the location of swams having shifted from the north to the south and east to west. Bees that swarm in California almond orchards at the end of the bloom would in the past normally swarmed in their northern or eastern home state. Let us not forget that good beekeeping also does not permit uncontrolled swarming and we have become more expert at preventing it. At one time here in Central California a beekeeper could increase 100% every year just by catching swarms today catching swarms would not make up normal winter loss or 10% of our bees. All this good beekeeping combined with good and bad pasture seasons has of course resulted in less bee trees in this area that never had that many because of the lack of nesting sites as our older building have be replaced by tighter modern constructions. Few today remember the wooden sidewalks of old. >Speaking of small cell size, I noticed my older hives without queen >excluders move up into new honey supers as I add them through the summer. I >know this could be from many reasons but wonder if bees do prefer newer >comb. Its the heat. The queen prefers the warmest area of the hive and will not lay on cold combs. Many wonder how a good queen catcher can catch so many queens when they spend so much time themselves looking for their queens. Most fast queen catchers know to look in the warmest part of the hive which of course varies with the time of day so in the am the queen may be found on the side facing the sun while on a warm afternoon she may be found in the middle of the hive and if the hive is really warm she may be found on the bottom side of the top or even at times not found at all. Most beekeepers find that darker combs are preferred by queens and this to maybe because of the heat a old black comb can attract and hold compared to a nice white extracting comb. Its also easier for the beekeeper to see the queens work in the bottom of a dark cell and miss it in the bottom of a white comb. >>another post. Just a few years after the onset of varroa there are >>practically no feral colonies here in Western New York. Farmers and long >>time residents have told me of bee trees that have been around for many >>years, were always populated and are now dead. Sure I believe this, the only question I would ask any beekeeper how many feral hives do you know about and how long you have known about it. It surprises me that most can only count a few, many none other then the old bee tree they knew as a child, and most do not follow the condition of these feral hives for any length of time. >> Gardeners and vegetable farmers tell us there are no bees visiting their crops. It seems likely >>that many of these colonies had small cells as you mentioned and bee >>trees are seldom disturbed by beekeepers. This would seem unusual because honeybees and their problems actually are said by some to make it better for other types of wild bees so garden pollination should be no problem. It is true that some years the weather keeps the bees in during the part or all of the pollination season causing less then maximum yields even under controlled condition where hundreds of thousands hives are available to do the job. And it is also true that if all the commercial hives in one area are moved to another area a dramatic reduction in available honeybee pollinators can be expected. This may be critical in areas that for what ever reason had few kept hives to began with. Nothing prevents any farmer from keeping his own bees which would be one way to remedy the pollination problem and at the least spend lots of production dollars keeping their own bees alive which is a type of poetic justice for all the years of spraying those same bees when own by beekeepers and generally making life miserable for real beekeepers. I like the rumor of giving every farmer with a beehive $100,000.00 and expect that it would be gone in a short time and they would be back looking to rent bees for pollination. Reminds me of the lucky beekeeper who won a million in the lottery and was asked what he would do with it and said "I will continue keeping bees until its gone". In the end the farmer will not only lose the money but also will have no bees.. ttul, the OLd Drone http://beenet.com (c)Permission is given to copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 16:15:18 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: UK: Bee Venon article in The Sunday Times MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here is the direct link to the article. You should use Netscrape to access it, since it doesn't appear to be optimised for Internet Explorer: http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/sti/98/11/01/stiinnnws01007.html?3003954 Regards, Ian Watson ian@gardener.com real estate agent baritone gardener beekeeper---> 11 colonies ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 21:36:24 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Mite losses in July/August MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Date sent: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 09:56:10 -0600 Send reply to: lithar@midwest.net From: AL Subject: Re: Mite losses in July/August To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > This is an angle I don't fully understand. It runs contrary to a notion > of mite control in which the *absence* of drones leads to a reduced mite > population. Absence of drones means absence of mite incubators - or at > least the mite's preferred incubator. The drone cell size and the drone Following this thread brings to mind a question I raised some time ago and didn't get an answer. While I now agree with the premise of reducing drones as a means of controlling Varroa mites. What are queen breeders to do? We need as many drones as we can get, even to the point of raising drones from drone mother hives. Any one got any suggestions? ***************************************** The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada. Phone (705)326 7171 Fax (705)325 3461 David Eyre, Owner e-mail http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks **************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 21:15:56 -0500 Reply-To: vcoppola@froggernet.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Re: Mite losses in July/August MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ruary Rudd wrote: > > The absence of drones leading to a reduced mite population derives from the > longer time that drone brood remains in the cell allowing at least one more > varroa mite to mature per female varroa. > > Because it thus gives them a better increase in numbers, the mites have > eveolved to selct drone brood in preference to worker brood. > > Because of this, the removal of the drone brood is a well known method of > removing mites from the hive, the drone brood working as a trap. A search > through the archives on " drone traps" would probably give a lot of > information. > Hi All, Varroa has evolved to prefer drone brood because its natural host, apis cerana, has the instinct to remove varroa from brood cells, especially worker brood cells. During removal process the varroa my be dented and killed. Their preference for drone cells gives them a better chance of survival since cerana does not remove them from these cells as often as worker cells. IBRA has some very good books that cover this. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 15:29:48 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: UK: Bee Venon article in The Sunday Times In-Reply-To: <199811092134.NAA21039@mx1.thegrid.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 04:15 PM 11/9/98 -0500, you wrote: Here is the ABC News account of the same story from Oct. 23, works with both browsers even has a bee graphic. http://www.abcnews.com/sections/science/MadRad/madrad981023.html >Netscrape to access it, since it doesn't appear to be >optimised for Internet Explorer: ?Worked OK for me using IE v.5? http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/sti/98/11/01/stiinnnws01007.html?30 03954 I liked the UK version that makes a point that "With this method of extraction, the bee keeps its sting and is able to fly off unharmed." (speaking of electro shock collection) But of course you pay a price and no one can say any bee sting ever passed on AID's with their natural injection tools. ttul, the OLd Drone >Ian Watson ian@gardener.com >real estate agent baritone gardener >beekeeper---> 11 colonies > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 12:54:31 GMT+0100 Reply-To: Anthony.Morgan@iet.hist.no Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Anthony Morgan Organization: HiST/AIN/IET Subject: Re: moving bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Andrew & Tiffany Dubas wrote: > do you close the entrances ? I normally use steel wool in the > entrance. Hei! In my case (I'm non-commercial), yes, I always close the entrances, but am very careful with ventilation and damp down the flatbed under the hives in dry hot weather. BUT...Steel Wool????? Sounds awful! What is wrong with a strip of foam rubber pushed into the entrance (using every Norwegian workmans best friend -- his universal, do everything knife! I guess the sharp end of a hive tool would work just as well.) cheers Tony ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 07:56:03 +0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jassim AL-Mughrabi Subject: Re: moving bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ---------- > From: Andrew & Tiffany Dubas > Hello, Simple question : for the commercial beekeepers who move bees often, > I only have 70 colonies and have a few small contracts for 5-6 colonies some > who only get 1 or two, anyway I move them all by hand, on and off, my > question is do you close the entrances ? I normally use steel wool in the > entrance. but I was wondering when you are moving tractor trailer loads do > you close all the entrances ? Hi Andrew The best way to move your bees from place to other is to put them on caravan ( flat body) with weels ,So you can pull the body with bees togther and aftre that you can transfare them to another place aftre while , in this case you must close the intrances . If you want I can send to you some picture to your p.o.box , just inform me ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 06:10:03 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: Re: french beekeepers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello Elizabeth, Lloyd and All: >> - An insecticide used on sunflowers that is "confusing" bees, so that >their >> homing instinct is interrupted and they cannot find the way back to the >> beehive. (The insecticide in question cannot be used in the US.) This is not correct, to my understanding. The original bee-l post on this subject was Andy's post of a new clipping. It was called "mad bee disease in France". The following is clipped from that posting from the old Drone: >Gaucho first went on sale in 1994. The producer says Gaucho is based on >imidaclopride, a chemical which acts on the nervous systems of a wide >variety of pests, including wireworm and aphids. Bayer SA defends the >product as the most widely used sunflower insecticide in France and insists >``the accusations have no scientific foundation.'' Bayer SA French >marketing director Bruno Feldrops says imidaclopride has been used in more >than 70 countries and was subjected to rigorous testing. Imidacloprid IS used in North America!!!! Here in Prince Edward Island it is sold under the brand name ADMIRE. It is rapidly becoming one of the most common insecticides used for potatoes. Fortuneately bees do not visit potatoes like they do sunflowers, but I am trying to watch for symptoms nonetheless, as spray drift onto neighbouring fields is always a possibility. Regards, Stan ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 15:32:58 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: Murrays observation about old cells Hi All Murray, you mentioned that you believe some of your bees may clean out silk from cells. It's seems sensible that bees would do this, but I have never seen any evidence to suggest this in any of the hives I have inspected - but given that our bees don't have an interupted brood rearing period it seems likley that they never get a chance. What happens here I believe is that once a cavity is so full of old comb that it just becomes too unhygenic for the bees they leave and in a few days wax moths have destroyed any combs left there. When the bees come back next spring from a fresh swarm they build back the combs on the old design, and the nesting site is rejuvinated. Another thing which intrigues me is the tendency our bees have of propolising drone cells over time leading to smaller drons - this may also have an effect on varroa resistance if our bees have any. As regards the posts suggesting queens will preferably lay on old dark combs - I have never observed this. The older the combs the spottier the brood pattern. Our bees tend to use old combs for polen storage (and I have seen them store pollen in old combs in the middle of the brood nest, with younger combs on either side that were solid brood. Old combs also seem to get a very strong ammonia smell here - something that I would theorize would damage bees developing in them. (When I say an old comb, I mean one that is picth black and which one could almost jump on without damaging it it is so packed with silk) Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis 6139 South Africa Time = Honey If you are not living on the edge you are taking up too much space!! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 09:35:39 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: the jennings family Subject: Re: moving bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, When my husband transports his bees to Florida each fall, he does not close the hive entrances. They are loaded either after dark, or when temperatures are below normal for flight, or when it is raining. The hives are on pallets, 4 to a pallet, and moved with a loader. Once on the truck they are netted ( tarped with nets) and strapped down. The truck needs to be kept moving during daylight hours, otherwise numerous bees would still escape. When we had only a few hives, and he was moving them by hand, he would wait till dark when they were all in the hive and plug the entrance with a strip of widow screen, pushed in far enough to lodge with a hive tool. He would also duck-tape the flight holes. They would be moved that night or early the next morning, and then released. Becky Jennings Land of Milk & honey PA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 09:40:23 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: the jennings family Subject: Re: moving bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Correction - That is " window screen" not widow screen,. Sorry :-) Becky Jennings Land of Milk & Honey PA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 09:59:39 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Drones and Varroa MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit With regard to the view that reducing drones is a valid Varroa control, David writes "Following this thread brings to mind a question I raised some time ago and didn't get an answer. While I now agree with the premise of reducing drones as a means of controlling Varroa mites. What are queen breeders to do? We need as many drones as we can get, even to the point of raising drones from drone mother hives. Any one got any suggestions?" Before making a suggestion that may work...I, for one, do not agree that reducing drones is a valid method of controlling Varroa. In the November issue of ABJ is an article on controlling Varroa without fluvalinate, formic acid, essential oils, etc. The author maintains that he has controlled Varroa for several years solely by "trapping" Varroa on drone brood, and then destroying the brood! He is doing the opposite of reducing drone brood. He is deliberately increasing the amount of drone brood to attract mites to the drone brood (where they are subsequently destroyed), rather than the worker brood. IMHO, the colony collapses we have all seen in July/August is because there is not sufficient drone brood for the mites, so they infest worker brood as a second choice. We are each entitled to our views, and mine is that if we eliminate drone brood in an attempt to control mites, the effect will be to put the mites onto worker brood and the hives will collapse sooner rather than later. David, I am no expert on queen raising, but I know two breeders in the North who are. Both think that one of today's problems with queens is that there are insufficient drones, because the feral drones have been eliminated. Both use drone brood foundation to increase the number of drones. Two frames per deep is standard. There is some thought that since good Carnolians stop raising brood in Northern climates, their hives have fewer mites in the spring than do hives of Italians. One of the two breeders raises exclusively New World Carnolians's, and the other relies heavily on NWC's. If drone producing hives show any sign of Varroa, strips are immediately inserted. (Regardless, these hives are not used for honey production.) Hope this helps, Lloyd LloydSpear@email.msn.com Owner, Ross Rounds(tm) the finest in comb honey production. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 10:44:21 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Drones and Varroa MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Lloyd Spear wrote: " ... if we eliminate drone brood in an attempt to control mites, the effect will be to put the mites onto worker brood and the hives will collapse sooner rather than later." I respectfully disagree. With the drone trapping method, entire frames of drone brood are removed along with the population of varroa infesting the drone brood. Timed properly, at the time in the season when there are ample drone pupae to attract the majority of varroa mites, removing the infested drone brood will keep the varroa population in check such that they stay at low enough levels to keep them from infesting worker brood. Removing the varroa along with drone brood leaves few mites remaining in the hive to get into worker brood. Hives won't collapse sooner, varroa populations will be kept in check throughout the honey production season and when drone brood is no longer present due to seasonal flux, the varroa population won't have reached the levels needed to bring down a hive in the time remaining before honey supers are pulled and chemical treatments are used. Unfortunately the time to remove drone brood is also the time that queen breeders want copious numbers of drones in their populations and the drone trapping method is counter to that goal. I don't see any way to compromise these two goals. It seems that drone trapping isn't a productive option for queen breeders. My suggestion would be to segregate different classes of hives: those used for honey production and those used for drone production. The honey producers can employ the drone trapping methodology; the drone producers can be treated with chemicals, forsaking the honey produced in those hives. It might even be possible to move the trapped drones from the honey producers into the drone producing hives rather than freezing them or feeding them to the chickens (as is recommended in the drone trapping method). This will allow the drones to emerge (although their varroa infested value may be minimal) and the drone producing hive may become one hell of a varroa haven. Furthermore the infested drones would most likely end up drifting back to the honey producers bringing the varroa infestation back to the hives one has worked so hard to keep varroa levels in check. Perhaps this speaks for segregated yards rather than segregated hives. Another problem may be the effects that chemical treatments may have on drone verility (currently under study). But I don't know, perhaps the demographics of varroa populations would work differently in the field than they do in my head. Lots of things work differently in the real world than they do in my head! Aaron Morris - thinking better answers lie in better investigations! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 16:31:25 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rimantas Zujus Subject: Re: moving bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-4" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Beefriends I can't understand where is a problem with hive moving. Can't you simply fix a smal wire net on hive entrance? The bees can't go out and have the same air amount as before :) Rimantas Zujus Kaunas LITHUANIA e-mail : zujus@isag.lei.lt http://www.lei.lt 55 North, 24 East > The truck needs to be kept moving during daylight hours, >otherwise numerous bees would still escape. >> >Becky Jennings >Land of Milk & honey >PA > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 10:55:59 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Timothy C. Eisele" Subject: Re: Drones and Varroa In-Reply-To: <199811101548.KAA16728@mtu.edu> from "Aaron Morris" at Nov 10, 98 10:44:21 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aaron Morris wrote: > With the drone trapping method, entire frames > of drone brood are removed along with the population of varroa infesting > the drone brood. Timed properly, at the time in the season when there > are ample drone pupae to attract the majority of varroa mites, removing > the infested drone brood will keep the varroa population in check such > that they stay at low enough levels to keep them from infesting worker > brood. Removing the varroa along with drone brood leaves few mites > remaining in the hive to get into worker brood. Hives won't collapse > sooner, varroa populations will be kept in check throughout the honey > production season and when drone brood is no longer present due to > seasonal flux, the varroa population won't have reached the levels > needed to bring down a hive in the time remaining before honey supers > are pulled and chemical treatments are used. > This brings up something I've been wondering about: Does anyone know what it is that attracts varroa to drone brood, or have ideas about possibilities? If so, it might be possible to make varroa-attractant traps that would accomplish the same thing as drone trapping, without actually having to wipe out the drone pupae to do it. Tim Eisele tceisele@mtu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 12:22:42 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Drones and Varroa MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I do not want to confuse matters, but what Aaron Morris said, is what I was trying to say. I wholeheartedly agree with Aaron; I guess I just don't feel that promoting drones is the same as eliminating them. Lloyd LloydSpear@email.msn.com Owner, Ross Rounds(tm) the finest in comb honey production. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 12:44:41 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Drone lures to attract varroa MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Tim Eisele asks: " ... Does anyone know what it is that attracts varroa to drone brood, or have ideas about possibilities?..." This is one of the avenues that researchers are investigating. It has been established that the attraction is smell. It's a hugh leap from that realization to synthesizing a lure. Just another topic competing for limited research funds. Aaron Morris - thinking something smells droney around here! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 11:09:28 -0800 Reply-To: pbc@teleport.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Paul Cauthorn Organization: Cascadia Hop Company Subject: Drones egg production hives. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here's an idea I have been considering: I would like to use a drone trapping method, but the methods I have read seem to be very time consuming. I want a method that I can use ocassionally instead of Apistan. I'm considering this as a late summer, fall treatment. In my area the bees plug out in late August and September and brood production decreases. This is a time that more varroa should be on bees and less hiding in capped cells. I'm proposing establishing one drone egg production colony for every 5 standard colonies. The drone colony would be comprised of mostly drone frames, a good population of bees, and a young queen. It would be fed light syrup(if they will take it) and given pollen substitutes to keep egg laying at a maximum level. If the colony is to be kept for any time supplementing it with young bees would be necessary. Frames of freshly layed eggs would be pulled from the drone colony and given to each of the standard colonies. After 7 days these drone frames should be capped and ready for varroa elimintion. I don't know if a single frame being used one time would be enough to cut the varroa population. It may be neccessary to insert a second drone frame a few days after the first in order to capture a larger percentage of the varroa. I am very interested in fully developing this idea, and would very much like to hear any suggestions on what is likely to go wrong with this system. Thanks, Paul Cauthorn BEE FRIENDLY Eugene, OR USA > Unfortunately the time to remove drone brood is also the time that > queen breeders want copious numbers of drones in their populations and > the drone trapping method is counter to that goal. I don't see any > way to compromise these two goals. It seems that drone trapping isn't > a productive option for queen breeders. My suggestion would be to > segregate different classes of hives: those used for honey production > and those used for drone production. The honey producers can employ the > drone trapping methodology; the drone producers can be treated with > chemicals, forsaking the honey produced in those hives. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 15:20:37 -0500 Reply-To: dublgully@worldnet.att.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Gaida Subject: AFB MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All. Had our bee meeting last nite. One of our members, in Kentucky, also keeps hives in Ohio. Said the Inspector in Ohio called him and asked to get the word out. Ohio has had MAJOR losses this summer from American Foulbrood. I don't know what major means, but he asked me to post this for him. The inspector advises that everyone carefully check their hives. And (sorry to those that this offends) to use the terramycin as recommended. Sorry this information is second or even third hand. By the way, we had a wonderful meeting. Talked about a lot of the information shared here this past month. Thanks. Got two new members, one of which is 9 years old. He got interested in bees because there was nothing else to do at 4H camp. He ended up attending 2 exactly the same sessions every day he was at camp. Our club is going to help him get a hive started and try to get it recognized for showing. Don't know how it will turn out. But how absolutely refreshing to see his face and his excitement. Judy in Kentucky, USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 18:21:09 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: 2nd Annual North Eastern Apiculture Symposium MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all I was wondering who on the list would be attending the joint Ontario/New York State Annual Convention coming up November 19-21. It is being held at the Sheraton Fallsview Hotel in Niagara Falls, Ontario and it would be great to meet some of the people I have got to know here on the BEE-L in person. Please email me privately so as to cut down on unnecessary list postings. My brother Robert, who is also on the list will also be going as well as most of the members of our local bee club, the Beekeepers Association of Niagara. Regards, Ian Watson ian@gardener.com real estate agent baritone gardener beekeeper---> 11 colonies ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 09:08:59 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rimantas Zujus Subject: geografical position Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-4" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >In my area the bees >plug out in late August and September and brood production decreases. >Paul Cauthorn >Eugene, OR USA Dear Beefriends I'd like to ask you to add your geografical position as longitude and latitude. Especially of the great states. I must confess I can't imagine where is that "OR" in the USA as I'm sure most of you don't know where is Lithuania: in Africa, Asia or Australia. One could better evaluate differences of your climate and possibility to apply your experience. Sincerely Yours Rimantas Zujus Kaunas LITHUANIA e-mail : zujus@isag.lei.lt http://www.lei.lt 55 North, 24 East ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 13:59:39 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: Moving bees Hi All I move my bees around quite a bit from time to time and have noticed that the following tips help (gleaned from old books on tropical beekeeping with a different race of bees). If one seals a strong hives up one damages brood present in it as the bees raise the hive temperature in reposnes to the excess carbon dioxide that accumulates. What I do is as follows - I lift the lid of each hive and smoke it heavily. This gives one about twenty minutes before the bees realise something is going on. I pack all smalll hives as is, with entrances pointing back and forwards alternately. Then for larger hives I put a super with no frames in it on the hive body. I fire the smoker up nicely and put it near the front of the vehicle with the lid on after giving each hvie a few good toots of smoke. The reason for this method - I found that if the bees were not smoked they would attack me firstly, each hive giving at least thrity night crawler stings (the worst) and then they would cover the outside of the bee box and begin an interhive meaning when one gets to the other end there are thousands of dead bees covering the bottom of the truck. In this way I have found it to be no problem moving bees reasonably long distances along bumby dirt tracks at night. It also helps to move during a cold front or similar climatic drop in temperature and to have a vehicle with shot shock absorbers. Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis 6139 South Africa Time = Honey If you are not living on the edge you are taking up too much space!! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 19:00:06 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: "killer" bees returns Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Its that time of year when beekeepers seem to drift off into the Land of Oz and ruminate about "killer" bees so here is a tread started in sci.agr.beekeeping posted so you won't feel left out. On Mon, 2 Nov 1998 20:47:42 -0800, amschelp@pe.net (Peter Amschel) wrote: >There are not any dramatic, and maybe not even any subtle anatomical >differences between Africanized honeybees and normal honeybees. Insect >biologists don't say exactly how they are supposed to be able to tell the >difference anatomically. It seems to be established in the scientific >community, therefore, that the Africanized bee is identified by its >behavior, not by its anatomy.* Today in the US anatomical differences are measured to determine if the suspected bee fits in the profile, same science developed and used by the German's in WWII in running their death camps, and then shades of OJ, DNA tests are made...only thing about this DNA the only 100% pure African hive found in the US was found years before the first recorded arrivals from South America all the rest have been called Africanized I guess cause they ain't so pure, but then no body has yet been able to take these so called Africanized and breed them backwards to pure African so I would guess their genes are also not so pure also. No behavioral measurement are made in Africanized regulatory tests in the US. One reason for this is that in the past we have been able to demonstrate bad behavior in bees that exceeds anything reported in Africanized bees prior or since to its introduction into the US. Honey bees have been killing people here since the first introduction from Europe which also were themselves said at times to be "fire eating bees that could swell the pockets shut on a old sows purse". Old timers referred to them as German Blacks or Spanish Bees depending on how far south they lived. A few, and I believe its all a bunch of BS hype and so do some in the upper rooms of government as the federal program will soon expire. In the original tests at Bakersfield California the more time the tests were repeated on the same hives the more so called Africanized bees were found. The quarantine was lifted not because NO Africanized bees were found but because after repeated tests they were found in hives that were known to have been re-queened with Northern California queens a few months earlier.. >This is why it has been concluded in information published on the >Internet, that the phenomenon of Africanized bees is an >example of the phenomenon of demon possession. The most well known >historical example of demon possession occurred in >the days of Jesus when a demon possessed man who lived among the tombs >approached him. This man (there may have been >two demon possessed men) was under demon control so that it was not >possible even to restrain the man with chains. Jesus effectuated a cure >of the man by ordering the legions of demons out of his body, and when >the demons exited his body they entered into the bodies of 2,000 swine, >completely possessing and controlling the swine. That's at the least original and would look as good in some of the quarantine orders I have seen as what they did contained and I am sure experts could be found that would back it up word for word. >"Question: How is the Africanized bee different from the domestic honey >bee? > The physical differences between the European and Africanized hone bee >are so slight that it is difficult even for an expert to make a positive >visual identification. Complex testing procedures are used to distinguish >between the two bees. > The most obvious characteristics of the Africanized bee have to do with >its behavior. Africanized colonies are consistently more defensive, more >apt to swarm and move, and are less selective in choosing a nesting site. >The colonies also occur in greater numbers." I know we have been all trained to believe that Africander bees are different and always aggressive but beekeepers who work with them every day mano e mano do not know that difference. All one has to do is to see a crazy gringo or native beeman working his bees in cut off's in Brazil or any other place that has Afro bees to realize that someone has been fed a line... In any case if the Africanized bee story was true and as dramatic as it has been written there would be no reason at all for anyone to lie about it, or set up the press, right ...well see this url for some background. http://beenet.com/texmex.htm Be sure and check out this guys credits...he's not God but has no reason to lie about the work he has done. You will find his bio at the bottom of the page. ttul, the OLd Drone http://beenet.com (c)Permission is given to copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 10:30:31 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tom Speight Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 9 Nov 1998 to 10 Nov 1998 In-Reply-To: <910760630.1119779.0@uacsc2.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <910760630.1119779.0@uacsc2.albany.edu>, Automatic digest processor writes >Does anyone know >what it is that attracts varroa to drone brood, or have ideas about >possibilities? As I understand it, it is something called Juvenile Hormone (Don't ask me what it looks like). The ammount of JH varies between species and also according to season. Drone larva have something like 5mg/ml and workers 3.5mg/ml. I'm no chemist, it's just something I read somewhere. -- Tom S ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 11:04:04 -0500 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: Drones egg production hives. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Paul Cauthorn wrote: > I'm considering this as a late summer, fall treatment. In my area the bees > plug out in late August and September and brood production decreases. This > is a time that more varroa should be on bees and less hiding in capped > cells. I'm proposing establishing one drone egg production colony for every > 5 standard colonies. > I am very interested in fully developing this idea, and would very much like > to hear any suggestions on what is likely to go wrong with this system. I would wonder if late summer or autumn is a good time to try raising drones. In our area, drone production is always falling off by then. I could't get a colony to raise drones at that time. How would you get around this natural tendency? Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 07:54:50 -0800 Reply-To: pbc@teleport.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Paul Cauthorn Organization: Cascadia Hop Company Subject: Re: geografical position/ drone egg Comments: To: Rimantas Zujus MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello Rimantas Zujus, You are quite right. What good is question about bees without a good description of local conditions? Eugene's climate, with an average temperature of 53 degrees, is one of the city's attractive features. Mild winters, long growing seasons, and few drastic weather changes are characteristic. Normal annual rainfall is 43 inches which falls mostly between September and June. Eugene is positioned at latitude 440 7' N, longitude 1230 13' W. Thanks for your reply, Paul Cauthorn Bee Friendly Rimantas Zujus wrote: > >In my area the bees > >plug out in late August and September and brood production decreases. > >Paul Cauthorn > >Eugene, OR USA > > Dear Beefriends > > I'd like to ask you to add your geografical position as longitude and > latitude. Especially of the great states. I must confess I can't imagine > where is that "OR" in the USA as I'm sure most of you don't know where is > Lithuania: in Africa, Asia or Australia. One could better evaluate > differences of your climate and possibility to apply your experience. > > Sincerely Yours > Rimantas Zujus > Kaunas > LITHUANIA > > e-mail : zujus@isag.lei.lt > http://www.lei.lt > 55 North, 24 East ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 18:13:31 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Goodman Subject: BEE (Beekeeping Education and Extension) APINET Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" API-NET INTERNATIONAL EXTENSION NETWORK (Now about 130 members in 25 countries worldwide!) HOW ABOUT YOU? Welcome to the Apinet! This dedicated international network has been created to encourage productive and healthy beekeeping by facilitating links between extension workers and others who are interested in advising, educating or training present and future beekeepers. We aim to facilitate multi-lingual communication on the internet via the Apinet email listserver - you may use your own language whenever you wish! WHY DO WE NEED APINET? Honey bees are an essential component of the agricultural and wider environment. As beneficial insects, they are vital for the pollination of many crops, as well as producing honey and other bee products for human use. Apinet aims to reduce threats to beekeeping caused by the spread of Varroa and other pathogens. Where significant losses of bees have occurred, many experienced beekeepers have stopped keeping bees. Not enough new beekeepers, especially young people, are being recruited and trained to help or replace those beekeepers who find themselves unable to adapt or cope with new challenges and management techniques. FREE APINET SERVICES! Apinet provides services for both Advisers and other Beekeepers who are interested in keeping up to date. Full details of the services offered and how to subscribe free of charge can be found on the Apinet website (http://www.inter.nl.net/hcc/beenet/apinet.htm). As well as details of advisory members interests and other useful information, there are also links to other beekeeping sites on the internet. All members automatically receive information by email. Members are encouraged to participate in discussions and to answer questions on beekeeping topics. These services are provided to Apinet members free of charge. The network system is operated by volunteers supported by sponsors with beekeeping and extension interests. HOW DID APINET ARISE? Apinet was initiated to satisfy beekeeper education and training needs identified by the CSL and EUROPEA. It is continuing to develop with the help of other like minded organisations and individuals throughout Europe and beyond. With your help, it will evolve into a world wide network with the potential, via the internet, to benefit extension workers and the beekeepers they serve in countries all over the world. If you are interested in Beekeeper Education and Extension, why not use the API-NET to network with colleagues in other countries and organisations. Make new contacts, exchange information and find out how they are helping beekeepers, farmers and others who depend upon the work of honey bees, to face new challenges. WHO SPONSORS APINET? The CSL National Bee Unit is part of a UK research agency, the Central Science Laboratory, which works in the area of bee disease control and research and provides an extension service for beekeepers. EUROPEA is the European Agricultural Education Association, an EU based organisation serving the agricultural education and training sector. It enables teachers, students, extension workers and others to collaborate nationally and internationally both in Europe and beyond. DOES APINET INTEREST YOU? Although there are Europea Associates in all EU member states, we still do not have specific email/apinet subscribed beekeeping extension contacts in some countries. Perhaps, you know of someone who might be able to help complete our worldwide web of Apinet members. We are also looking for more links outside of Europe. If you are interested in joining the net or helping to establish a network in your Country, please contact John Goodman in GB. If you know of others who may be interested in the API-NET , especially in countries where we do not have full members ... please send them this information or better still tell them about our Website where they can subscribe on line and free of charge. Members in: A* - AUS - B - CDN - CH - CZ - D - DK* - E* - F - GB - GR* - I - IRL* - J - L* - MAL - NL - P* - RA - RI - S - SF - U - USA - ZA (* Apinet Associates) BEE (Beekeeping Education and Extension) APINET JOHN GOODMAN APINET ( http://www.inter.nl.net/hcc/beenet ) International Multilingual Extension Network for apiculture sponsored by CSL & EUROPEA promotes productive and healthy beekeeping and links extension workers and others helping to advise, educate or train beekeepers worldwide. CSL NBU ( http://www.csl.gov.uk ) The National Bee Unit is part of a UK research agency, the Central Science Laboratory, which covers bee disease control and research and provides an extension service for beekeepers. EUROPEA ( http://www.europea.org ) European Agricultural Education Association an EU based organisation serving the agricultural education & training sector enabling students, teachers and extension workers to collaborate. Regional Bee Inspector, NE England CSL National Bee Unit, UK Tel/Message:+44 (0)1833 690561 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 12:18:47 -0600 Reply-To: pilkguns@pilkguns.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Scott Pilkington Jr Organization: PCE, LTD Subject: Dumb question MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit We are fairly new beekeepers, had a few hives for several years, from wild swarms we originally caught. This year we got big time and bought 3 more hives from an guy gettin out of it, bringing us up to 5. We requeened 2 hives with Weaver buckfast queens back in Septemebr to try them out. We had little honey production this year in any of our hives .We had gone to Peirco Frames this year and between that and the drought not sure we were not sure if the bees themselve were responsible for poor honey gathering or other factors. Anyway, The hive in question was very strong, numbers wise, (one of the original "wild" swarms) and very agressive when the hive was opened, always has been more aggressive than the other hives. We requeend it, then we checked about a week later and found fresh brood so thought all was well. We then installed apistan stips and patties as we have done last several years. Just went back today to remove apistan and have very few bees in the hive,1000-2000 maybe, very slow moving,(other hives we were in today had lots of activity) no brood, and a fair number of yellow jackets, who were very active. I'm sure there is a good reason for this but I don't know it. We live in the mountains of East Tennessee, and had our first real frost about a week ago. Tempeture today is in the 60's Thanks for the replies Scott Pilkington ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 21:04:58 -0600 Reply-To: cspacek@flash.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Curtis Spacek Subject: Wax Moth Trap answers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Due to the numerous Questions regarding wax moth traps here is the recipe. Ingredients; 1 cup of granulated sugar 1 whole banana 1 cup clear vinegar 3-4 cups of water 1 2-ltr. soda bottle Cut a 1.5 inch diameter hole near the top of the bottle in the tapered area just below the top of the bottle.Put the banana and all other ingredients in the bottle and shake well.Hang near the hives.Use 1 trap for every 4-5 hives.It takes about 2 weeks for the ingredients to pickle and begin emitting the chemical scents necessary to attract moths but once it does it really works great!!!believe it or not, but you need to try this one. p.s.:add enough water to fill the bottle to within about 2" of the hole after all other ingredients have been put in the bottle.And don't worry its ok to cut the banana into pieces small enough to fit through the hole or you can make the hole larger if necessary. Have fun and good luck. Curtis Spacek Spacek Honey Farms Harris County Beekeepers Association http://www.harrisbee.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 20:35:38 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Steve Davis Subject: Re: "killer" bees returns MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My first experience with northern killer bees was during my second year of beekeeping. The Midnights bees I had ordered the previous year superseded the queens and the result on attitude was just the opposite of the year before. I wonder if people and animals are still being stung to death like they were when in the first years after the African bee was intitally released in South America. The way the American news media jump on stories like this, I would think if they were we would be seeing it on T.V. If not, then possibly the bees are pure African now and better natured. Steve ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 16:05:33 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Cesar Flores Subject: beekeeping in tropical america Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit OLD drONE writes: << I know we have been all trained to believe that Africander bees are different and always aggressive but beekeepers who work with them every day mano e mano do not know that difference >> Does anyone know of any good references for techniques used to work african bees in central/south america? What are the differences from conventional european beekeeping techniques, (aside from the aggressiveness question)? i am sure that the years of experience in these countries has led to some kind of general changes in technique. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 08:07:29 -0500 Reply-To: beeworks@muskoka.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Drones and Varroa MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Date sent: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 09:59:39 -0500 Send reply to: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Drones and Varroa To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > acid, essential oils, etc. The author maintains that he has controlled > Varroa for several years solely by "trapping" Varroa on drone brood, and > then destroying the brood! He is doing the opposite of reducing drone > brood. He is deliberately increasing the amount of drone brood to attract > mites to the drone brood (where they are subsequently destroyed), rather While I agree that the drone brood population is increased (with the trapping methods) the Varroa in those cells are 'not' allowed to emerge causing an increase in mites. The discussion is breeding extra drones (for mating) and in doing so increasing the volume of mites to a dangerous level. > > IMHO, the colony collapses we have all seen in July/August is because there > is not sufficient drone brood for the mites, so they infest worker brood as > a second choice. We are each entitled to our views, and mine is that if we > eliminate drone brood in an attempt to control mites, the effect will be to > put the mites onto worker brood and the hives will collapse sooner rather > than later. It depends on what is meant by the term 'eliminate'. If we are talking of the deliberate reduction of drone cells to prevent a normal population of drones, then I agree it will tend to force more mites into worker cells. But if 'eliminate' means to use the drone trapping system, then it will keep numbers under control, and less Varroa will be available to infest worker cells. > There is some thought that since good Carnolians stop raising brood in > Northern climates, their hives have fewer mites in the spring than do hives > of Italians. Just in passing, our Italians don't have brood at this time of year either. Blanket statements regarding bee behaviour do tend to bother me, when they don't have much basis in fact. ***************************************** The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada. Phone (705)326 7171 Fax (705)325 3461 David Eyre, Owner e-mail http://www.muskoka.net/~beeworks **************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 18:42:07 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dar Heinze Subject: (no subject) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hello! I have a question about feeding. I read that the proper fall feed was 2 parts sugar, and 1 part water. Well, almost everytime I have made syrup 2:1, it has crystalized before the bees could drink it all. So, I decreased the sugar to 1 3/4:1, which seems to fix the problem. But - will this lessened sugar content have any ill effects? I have a entrance feeder, so when the sugar crystalizes, it plugs the holes and does not allow any more liquid to pass through. Thanks! Dar ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 09:26:31 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rimantas Zujus Subject: Re: Drones and Varroa Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-4" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Beefriends Yesterday I've read an article on Varroa mites in site: http://web.inter.nl.net/hcc/beenet/varroa.htm The excerpt says: "Life History. ...The mite's life cycle begins when an adult female leaves a host bee and enters a brood cell as that host is feeding a young larva. Though the mite is found on all three castes of the honey bee, its preference is for drone brood;..." Does it mean that some mite choose bee larvae for breeding when the great majority put eggs in drone cells at the time? If so, a drone method selects a new mite population with preferring lady bee brood ... The same kind of selection occurred with Apistan. It doesn't help now in areas of long usage. The best way is to find/raise a new variety of bacteria/mite or to find a natural enemy for Varroa J. It's upon the biologists. Live beings develop themselves and their fighting efficiency remains. A balance would Acura and a number of mites is limited. Good luck Rimantas Zujus Kaunas LITHUANIA e-mail : zujus@isag.lei.lt http://www.online.lt/indexs.htm http://www.lei.lt 55 North, 24 East ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 20:10:46 -0500 Reply-To: admin@beeworks.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: David Eyre Subject: Web Pages MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT To all our friends and customers. We are proud to announce that The Bee Works has come of age. As of today we are now and our e-mail address is In celebration you are invited to the grand opening of our new Web site at:- http://www.beeworks.com Please visit and then e-mail and tell us what you think, and note our new address in your records. Regards Jean and Dave... ***************************************** The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada. Phone (705)326 7171 Fax (705)325 3461 David Eyre, Owner e-mail http://www.beeworks.com **************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 20:23:46 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: George W Imirie Subject: Re: (no subject) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Dar: You made a wise decision, because 2:1 syrup is tough to make. 1 3/4 :1 will do fine for you bees. However, entrance feeders should be avoided. For the most part they DON'T work when they are needed; i.e., when it is COLD, bees will not break their cluster to get feed from the feeder even though it might be just one inch away. Further, in sunny flight weather, that feeder is well exposed to ROBBER bees, and if the colony you are feeding is not real strong, it may not be able to defend itself against a strong robbing colony and hence be killed. The best way to feed, is get a gallon GLASS (not plastic) jar from a local deli (pickles and hot sausages come in these bottles and deli's throw them in the trash). Using a FRAME NAIL (Wire size 17 or 18) punch about 5 or 6 holes in the lid, fill the jar with sugar syrup, and invert it on the center hole in the inner cover so the bees can easily get to the syrup and suck it out of the jar. Put an empty hive body or 2 empty super bodies around the jar to protect it and put the top on. Someone else might write about division board feeders in place of 2 frames in the brood chamber. I have never cared for them for several reasons: bees tend to fall in the syrup and drown - lots of them. More important, you have to open the hive on a cold day breaking the propolis weather-stripping seals the bees have installed to prevent cold drafts of air n order to refill an empty feeder with syrup. I don't like to let a tight cluster of bees be exposed too long to cold air. Lastly, just as the entrance feeder, let us see you have put the division board feeder in the space occupied by the #2 frame. If the bees are clustered between (or around) frames 4, 5, 6, & 7, if it is real cold they may not be able to leave the cluster and go over to frame #2 location to feed on the syrup, and STARVE with that food right in sight, but that 2-3 inches away is TOO FAR AWAY. If you find your bees are TOTALLY out of food and they are about to starve to death in the next 2-3 days, make up 2,3, or even 4 jars of syrup, remove the inner cover and invert the jars right on top of the frames, then put an empty hive body and top on around the several jars. Let me finish this simply: The BEST feeding is putting the feed right UP AGAINST the bees where they really don't have to move hardly at all to eat. Further, keep the syrup INSIDE the hive where your bees can protect it against robber bees. Good luck, Dar. George Imirie Starting my 66th year in beekeeping ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 18:24:34 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Edwards Organization: Hayden Bee Lab, USDA-ARS,Tucson, Arizona Subject: Bee Research Photos from Tucson Bee Lab Library MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, All ! Here is a page with some newly-scanned old photos I have come across in the lab library. I will add to this page when time and work permits, so check back occasionally. Any info on misidentified or missing captions will be greatly appreciated, and will be filed with the photos in our library. - John Edwards, USDA-ARS, Hayden Bee Research Center, Tucson, Arizona http://gears.tucson.ars.ag.gov/home/edwards/jephotos.htm (sorry this is not a clickable link - I haven't figured out how yet) ;) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 16:47:50 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: beekeeping in tropical america In-Reply-To: <199811122135.NAA17222@mx1.thegrid.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 04:05 PM 11/12/98 -0500, you wrote: >Does anyone know of any good references for techniques used to work african >bees >in central/south america? What are the differences from conventional european >beekeeping techniques, (aside from the aggressiveness question)? i am sure >that the years of experience in these countries has led to some kind of >general changes in technique. I have a good video showing just that I would copy for you showing how an expatriate US beekeeper works Africanized bees in Brazil in his queen operation and pollination outfit. If you are looking for the type of hype that has been promoted by others then you won't want this video showing working "killer" bees in cut offs and shorts with no more cover or smoke then what is average here. The cost would be about $20 del US. ttul, the OLd Drone Check out our site search engine that searches all 80 pages of http://beenet.com/bnews.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 18:08:48 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Edwards Organization: Hayden Bee Lab, USDA-ARS,Tucson, Arizona Subject: Re: "killer" bees returns MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > On Mon, 2 Nov 1998 20:47:42 -0800, amschelp@pe.net (Peter Amschel) > wrote: > No behavioral measurement are made in Africanized regulatory tests in > the US. True > One reason for this is that in the past we have been able to > demonstrate bad behavior in bees that exceeds anything reported in > Africanized bees prior or since to its introduction into the US. Part II : This reason is just not true - Dr Spangler, of our lab, has developed an inexpensive device to measure aggressiveness, which has not been widely used. I have personally witnessed tests of aggressiveness which would literally knock your socks off. I cannot accept the statement that the level of stinging bees has not gone up since the AHB arrived. I have worked with hived and feral bees for 34 years in Tucson, seldom selected for gentleness. - John Edwards, Tucson ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 02:25:16 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Sid Pullinger Subject: Long. and Lat. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 <<<<<<<. Eugene is positioned at latitude 440 7' N, longitude 1230 13' W.>>>>>> Something strange about the above in a recent letter. Am I missing something? In my schooldays, admittedly a long time ago, Longitude was = 0 to 180 degrees East or West and Latitude was 0 to 90 degrees North or South. Put me right, please. Sid P. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 13:04:25 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: beekeeping with scutellata Hi All Cesar, you asked about a good reference for beekeepers in the tropics working african/ized (same thing) bees. Well there is an excellent, but somewhat old book called, Beekeeping in the Tropics, Oxford , 196?. Nice book, written with that colonial service attitude that has slowly died out on this continent to the detriment of much. Another book that is quite interesting to read is Beekeeping in South Africa, I don't know the exact reference. It is I think produced by our dept agriculture. Much of what is in there should apply to south america as well as the bees are the same pretty much. (I remember seeing in a few genetic papers that the bees from central america pretty much matched those from pretoria). As regards why one does not hear too much about african bees in the press - people learn fast - especially with bees. A change of mindset allows a change of mortality rates to bees. People learn rapidly that with african bees you cannot have your horse tied up next to a beehive - it will die. Another thing with african bees that I have never read, but would geuss is that if 15 000 colonies of feral bees are removed from a city like Mexico city (every year), then there must be at least 40 000 feral colonies that have not been removed. If each of these colonies results in a conservative 50 people being stung every year (including people who step on bees, drink bees by mistake in cooldrink etc), then we have 2 000 000 stings a year. In my country many people get stung once or twice a year by accident in this manner. Hence ones population will be far more frequently exposed to bee stings and more likely to develop a tolerance to stings. Given how kids are, most will be stung 50 times by the time they are adults. (As a kid I was stung about this many times) Hence, now that the africanized front has been around for a while, most kids will have been desensized naturally and are probably able to tolerate a massive stining event. I did however recentyl read a paper in the American Journal of Pediatry which decribed a few kids that picked up 2000+ stings each and died. They are developing a bee antivenom for extreme cases in Brazil as a result. (BTW - check out www.asm.org - all their journals are online until december - some nice stuff about bees in Journal of Applied Micro. and Biochem. Anybody interested in TM resistance can run a search on TM resistance and environemental bacteria!!) Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis 6139 South Africa Time = Honey If you are not living on the edge you are taking up too much space!! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 17:55:19 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Edwards Organization: Hayden Bee Lab, USDA-ARS,Tucson, Arizona Subject: Re: "killer" bees returns MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Andy Nachbaur wrote: > Its that time of year when beekeepers seem to drift off into the Land of Oz > and ruminate about "killer" bees so here is a t(h)read started in > sci.agr.beekeeping posted so you won't feel left out. > > On Mon, 2 Nov 1998 20:47:42 -0800, amschelp@pe.net (Peter Amschel) > wrote: > > >There are not any dramatic, and maybe not even any subtle anatomical > >differences between Africanized honeybees and normal honeybees. Insect > >biologists don't say exactly how they are supposed to be able to tell the > >difference anatomically. It seems to be established in the scientific > >community, therefore, that the Africanized bee is identified by its > >behavior, not by its anatomy.* Very true, but a very small number of people have ever put the time and concentration into reading Daly and Balling, 1974, the original paper which describes how morphometric measurements are analysed (In fact, maybe I should post a copy of this paper on our website). The reasoning seems to be, that if it is too difficult to understand after a cursory reading, it MUST be false, deceptive, self-serving, and downright dishonest, along with anyone who uses or practices it. The main reason that behavior has become the basic knife-edge with which to separate "good" from "bad" bees is the very long and involved (relatively) process of dissecting and mounting parts of the bee for analysis and computation. The fact that this process is long, tedious, and confusing to the "uninitiated" or to the casual reader does not mean that the process or its results (or its practioners) are false or even faulty ( Daly often stated that the databases supporting this method would need updating as the bee moved into new areas......but few, if any attempts have been made to do this in the US, except by the Weslaco USDA Lab, where Bill Rubink has led a lonely battle to update the data and techniques for ten or more years.). ANYWAY, stay good, bee well, and don't let the bugs bite. - John Edwards, Tucson - ( HTTP://gears.tucson.ars.ag.gov/home/edwards/index.html ) And, IMHO, anyone who thinks the bees (in S. Arizona) are the same as always has not been spending much time in the beeyard. JE. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 15:43:31 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Edwards Organization: Hayden Bee Lab, USDA-ARS,Tucson, Arizona Subject: Re: geografical position MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rimantas Zujus wrote: > >Eugene, OR USA > > I'd like to ask you to add your geografical position as longitude and > latitude. Eugene, Oregon = 44.02 N 123.05 W - John Edwards, Tucson, Arizona ( 32 deg 16.497 min N 110 deg 56.449 min W at the Bee Lab) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 14:19:08 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rimantas Zujus Subject: Re: geografical position Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-4" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear John Such high accuracy I accept as some kind of joke :) 0.001 min W corresponds with some 1,6 meter in your laboratory (32 deg 16.497 min N) You should mention the room and even the table you pointed. Sincerely Yours Rimantas > - John Edwards, Tucson, Arizona ( 32 deg 16.497 min N 110 deg 56.449 min >W at the Bee Lab) > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 08:12:30 -0800 Reply-To: ryarnell@orednet.org Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard Yarnell Subject: Re: geografical position >Eugene, Oregon = 44.02 N 123.05 W > John Edwards, Tucson, Arizona ( 32 deg 16.497 min N, 110 deg 56.449 min W Such accuracy bespeaks employment by the USGovernment and access to some pretty fancy, unfiltered GPS data! ;) -- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 18:33:49 -0600 Reply-To: lithar@midwest.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: AL Subject: Re: (no subject) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dar Heinze wrote: > > Hello! > > I have a question about feeding. I read that the proper fall feed was 2 parts > sugar, and 1 part water. Well, almost everytime I have made syrup 2:1, it has > crystalized before the bees could drink it all. So, I decreased the sugar to > 1 3/4:1, which seems to fix the problem. But - will this lessened sugar > content have any ill effects? I have a entrance feeder, so when the sugar > crystalizes, it plugs the holes and does not allow any more liquid to pass > through. > > Thanks! > Dar I've never had 2:1 mix crystalize (or a 3:1 for that matter) - do you heat it to the boiling point? I've noticed a cloudy mixture till the boiling point then it turns crystal clear and stays that way. Don't overheat or it will carmelize - not a good thing. Also, IMHO, I'd ditch the entrance feeder and go with the ziplock baggie method. My bees can empty one of those babies in 24 hrs ( could be why it never crystalizes). This time of year in the northern hemisphere I would think an inside food supply might be better (like the baggie feeder). AL ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 09:03:10 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: "killer" bees returns In-Reply-To: <199811131226.EAA24627@mx1.thegrid.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 06:08 PM 11/12/98 -0700, you wrote: >> On Mon, 2 Nov 1998 20:47:42 -0800, amschelp@pe.net (Peter Amschel) >> One reason for this is that in the past we have been able to >> demonstrate bad behavior in bees that exceeds anything reported in >> Africanized bees prior or since to its introduction into the US. >Part II : This reason is just not true - Dr Spangler, of our lab, has developed >an inexpensive device to measure aggressiveness, which has not been widely >used. I have personally witnessed tests of aggressiveness which would literally >knock your socks off. I cannot accept the statement that the level of stinging >bees has not gone up since the AHB arrived. I have worked with hived and feral >bees for 34 years in Tucson, seldom selected for gentleness. Hi John & Bee Friends, No doubt about it your area is different, having myself been able to bring 500 hives into your area that I actually shook down at the end of the almond bloom from doubles without a veil in California only to have then turn into aggressive beasts that would comply with all behavioral characteristics of "killer" bees within a few days of being placed in out yards in your area. I have unique hands on experience myself as a commercial beekeeper in your area and agree with all descriptions of their aggressive behavior. I believe you and what you say and if you say the bees are different today then they must be different, you are there and I am here. What I do not believe is that all is lost and that we should all get into the honeybee extermination business, yet. This aggressive behavior I am writing about, the old aggressive behavior that I experienced, is not limited to a few locations or a few miles of bee pasture but may extend far west into Mexico and east to Texas, "and north into New Mexico according to Jaycox at the time", and according to beekeepers I have visited with in these areas. Most all have a story about why their bees are aggressive. The one I heard the most was " we selected for aggressive bees to reduce vandalism" by the public. I heard many more stores like we made a mistake and used queens from Hawaii, when bees from Hawaii had a little problem with fire in their belly even in California. I am sure today most would say it is the "Afro" bees from Mexico and all say they can tell the difference in some of their bees if not all. Before I moved bees into your area I spend several seasons working bees there, killing "all" old queens each season and replacing them with gentle stock from Oliver Hill and others in Northern Californian picked because of years of personal experience with individual genital stock. These queens did well in your area and their hives produced excellent crops of honey depending on the season but their aggressive behavior matched the local stock and they were without quantization "killer" bees by all written description in the best of times. All of this was BEFORE the advent of any new race of bees entering the US. One thing I did not do that I really wish I had is to move truck loads of these bees back to California so I can not say first hand what would happen only guess and my guess is that in a short time without intervention by man they would be no more aggressive then local stock. Though only a guess I am pretty secure in this because so many bees are being moved each spring from known "killer" bee areas to California with NO unusual problems reported other then what one would expect from any bees. California regulatory officials do not check these bees because of the value of their work to the almond industry without regards to their race or origins so I can not say how they measure up other then I would guess they would be the same as if they were checked in their home states and that is Africanized when recovered as swarms. Before the advent of the Afro bees introduction into Texas tests were conducted here by Daly I believe and he was able easily to demonstrate Africanized bees boarder to boarder in California in both hive and feral populations. At least one of these feral hives has been shown by all tests to be the only 100% African stock found in the Americas. NONE OF THESE BEES WERE AGGRESSIVE. None were measured for aggressive behavior because none were aggressive. This work was paid for by the Calif. Dept. of Agriculture and was not made public.(wonder why) I did get a copy and reproduced it and tried to get it out to all the bee labs and interested persons at the time, you may have one in your library I don't know. Now I have no doubts that bees are aggressive in your area. I believe what I have seen with my own eyes and felt the real proof on my own skin many times. I do have serious concerns with what has and is reported as the scientific reason from this difference including measurements, and expensive DNA tests. This cynicism has not been helped by the hyping of the problem by some in the public funded Bee Research/Regulatory Business and the setting up of phoney, less then honest demonstrations for the public and press by the same. No reflection on your own organization or their work as over the years I have found you all to be good people and tireless scientists, others are not. I am somewhat disappointed in the fact that no solution has been found for this aggressive behavior as I know there is one and believe it will turn out to be simple and have nothing to do with DNA or the WWII science of morphometrics. I suspect to much effort is being made in identifying problems and looking for new ones and I am sure more will be found. ttul, Andy- Los Banos, Left Coast of the Republic of America (c)Permission is given to copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 12:17:35 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: Re: Drones and Varroa Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > If so, a drone method selects >a new mite population with preferring lady bee brood ... What an interesting observation, Rimantas! And logically correct. I wonder if the technique of "trap and release" where the males are trapped, sterilized and released to breed would be of any use in controlling varroa. This is one technique in which resistance is not selected for. It requires that males be attracted to a females pheromones. Can someone post any information or sources on sex among varroa. I bet if you put sex and vampires into a search engine you would get plenty of hits, and not one of them would be about vampire mites :) Regards, Stan 47N 63W ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 09:42:52 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Suzanne Maloon Subject: California MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Can anyone point me to Northern California beekeepers, especially around the San Juaquin, Sacramento area? I'm in the foothills of Amador County. Thanks! Suzanne Maloon _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 13:37:24 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Drones and Varroa MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Stan Sandler wrote: >> If so, a drone method selects >> a new mite population with preferring lady bee brood ... > >What an interesting observation, Rimantas! And logically correct. Actually, this is not logically correct - drone trapping should not select for mites that prefer worker brood, and here's why. At the time when one employs the drone trapping method there is plenty of drone brood available to accommodate (play host to) all the varroa within a hive. It is not until late in the season when there is not enough drone brood to go around that varroa migrate to worker brood. Presumably when drone trapping, the dynamics of the varroa population change. You only select for varroa who prefer worker brood if you let the dynamics reach that point. If you're drone trapping right through the season the mites never reach the point that they are forced to select their second choice (worker brood). There is a great article in this month's ABJ written by Bob Horr dealing with this topic. Highly recommended! While I'm on ABJ, Dadant is running a special this month on _The_Hive_ and_the_Honey_Bee_ for $19.95 (regular price is $36). See the back cover of the issue. This is a one month only special. >I wonder if the technique of "trap and release" where the males are >trapped, sterilized and released to breed would be of any use in >controlling varroa. No, there is little hope for this method for varroa control. The male mites hatch, mate and die within the period that the bee cell is capped. There's no way to get the males out, sterilized and back in a capped cell within their life cycle. Good web sites to check out: http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/dronemethod.html http://aginfo.psu.edu/PSA/ws98/bees2.html Aaron Morris - thinking to defeat 'em you must understand 'em! PS: thinking I don't know my longitude and latitude (sorry Rimantas). ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 19:13:28 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rimantas Zujus Subject: Special hive Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-4" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Beefriends We had our monthly meeting in Kaunas Beekeeping Society. We were astonished of a distinguished success of our beekeeper what was confirmed by our Chairman. A beekeeper Aloyzas Palskys kindly agreed to tell us of his experience on getting honey yield seven times higher than annual average in Lithuania! Mr. Aloyzas Palskys, retired civil engineer of 62, 50 years as a beekeeper, 20 bee colonies. He tried all kind of hives and left with very wide, 20 frames in line, two storied Dadant tie. Annual honey average in 1994 96 kg per colony per year. His best achievement. Annual honey average in 1998 70 kg/colony/year. His mostly often result. (15 kg/colony/year for Lithuania) In midsummer a colony consists of 30-40 Dadant frames. (435 mm x 300 mm). Optimum colony 10 kg. Swarming fully controlled. The construction of hive is based on: A double hive for two separated colonies, each up to 40 frames. A hive must have good thermal isolation and ventilation. Constant temperature in a hive day and night as possible. The condensed vapor in winter inside hive should not freeze. The isolation material between inner and outer walls must be always dry. Walls must be leak-proof for wind (air). Venting ability of the air volume among brood combs has to be up to 16 times per hour. Avoid wasting of timber wood, and inner volume of hive. (Using shallow frames additional air spaces). Using one shape frames for free operation inside hive. Hive construction: to be continued :) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 19:35:23 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rimantas Zujus Subject: Re: Drones and Varroa Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-4" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Stan & All The article in: http://web.inter.nl.net/hcc/beenet/varroa.htm also says: "Sixty hours after the cell is sealed the mite lays her first egg, with succeeding eggs at approximately 30 hour intervals. The first egg results in a female, the second a male, and the third and beyond, females. New young mites reach maturity within the cell and mating takes place. The male mite then dies, along with any immature females, and the newly mated females leaves the cell with the emerging bee, moving to a new host bee to continue the cycle." I can't imagine a "traped" and especially "released" male. If I understand good, males don't leave their cells. Mating takes place in capped cell. Maybe, we should affect female to lay eggs of impotent males :) Good night girls and boys. It's time to go closer my bed. Local time: 20:30, 0 degrees Celsium, the remains of 2 days snow continue melting. Sincerely Yours Rimantas Zujus Kaunas LITHUANIA e-mail : zujus@isag.lei.lt http://www.online.lt/indexs.htm http://www.lei.lt 55 North, 24 East >I wonder if the technique of "trap and release" where the males are trapped, >sterilized and released to breed would be of any use in controlling varroa. >This is one technique in which resistance is not selected for. It requires >that males be attracted to a females pheromones. Can someone post any >information or sources on sex among varroa. I bet if you put sex and >vampires into a search engine you would get plenty of hits, and not one of >them would be about vampire mites :) > >Regards, Stan >47N 63W > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 14:24:57 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Musashi Subject: Carniolan bees in TBH Dear Beekeeping Friends, The post from Rimantas about the long Dadant hive in Lithuania that had such greater production got me to thinking about an experience I had with one of my hive this past season. It was a long top bar hive. The queen was a Carniolan from Glenn Apiaries in California. The year before I had her in a Langstroth hive (her first year) and she did very well, producing two shallow supers of surplus honey. This year, after being moved into the top bar hive, I saw a phenomenon that I have not seen in any of my other hives. Every top bar comb from the front of the hive to the back (about 15-20 combs) had 3-5 inches of capped honey at the top and pollen and brood on the bottom. There was not a single comb that was entirely honey or entirely brood, even at the very back away from the entrance. The brood pattern was nice, the bees seemed healthy, but the brood was spread out horizontally over the entire length of this long top bar hive. Since harvesting comb honey was going to be destructive of brood comb, I did not take very much honey from this hive. With hindsight, I now wish I had harvested anyway, because by midsummer the hive had crashed from Varroa and was subsequently destroyed by wax moths while I was away on vacation for a couple of weeks. Back to the point I was going to make: I wondered if these Carniolan bees I had might not have done better honey production-wise had they been in a "vertical hive" such as a Langstroth hive or a Dadant hive supered. I suspect that the queen would have stayed down below, filling up the bottom area with brood, but not going up vertically to lay unless there were just not enough places to lay down below. I don't believe these were New World Carniolans because they were not advertised as such. They were just called Carniolans. Is this a characteristic of Carniolans? Maybe the hot climate of Texas had some bearing on the brood pattern and the queen preferred to stay down below where it was cooler? since Carniolans I hear do well in cooler climates? Has anyone else had a similar experience with Carniolans? Bee good. Layne Westover College Station, Texas, U.S.A. (look at a map for latitude and longitude) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 18:03:04 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: Re: Drones and Varroa Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Aaron and All: Well I certainly showed my ignorance of the varroa life cycle. I guess since we still do not have the mites here I have not done as much reading as I should have. However, I still do not understand this: >Actually, this is not logically correct - drone trapping should not >select for mites that prefer worker brood, and here's why. At the time >when one employs the drone trapping method there is plenty of drone >brood available to accommodate (play host to) all the varroa within a >hive. It is not until late in the season when there is not enough >drone brood to go around that varroa migrate to worker brood. Sure there is plenty of drone brood when one is trapping. But one is removing and killing the mite progeny from mites which have chosen drone cells to lay in. But mites which have chosen worker cells to lay in will be successfull. Therefore there is an advantage to mites laying in worker cells and this method will select for that characteristic. I have read your post several times Aaron, and forgive me but I just cannot understand what the relative amounts of type of brood have to do with the success of mites laying in worker cells EARLY in the season. The fact that mites change to worker brood LATE in the season when drone cells are scarce has no bearing on the fact that mites laying in worker brood early on will be more successful if one is drone trapping at that time. I do not get ABJ, so I am afraid I can not reference the article. So I remain a puzzled, Stan ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 10:48:37 -0700 Reply-To: fltdeck1@ix.netcom.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Matthew Subject: Queens preferred laying area? RE: Carniolan bees in TBH - MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Has anyone tried joining two Langstroth hives by removing one side (i.e., one really long Langstroth hive)? I'm wondering if the queens prefer climbing comb-to-comb rather than up to the next hive body & back down. Watching my observation hive, I've noticed it's not very often that the queen will cross wood. She'd rather cross to the other side of the same brood comb (through waxed cross-holes) than venture up onto another broodless comb. I'm sure every queen is different to some degree, but perhaps we're cramping their laying habits by the 9-10 frame dimensions of the standard Langstroth hive? If the experiment concerned four full-depth hive bodies placed side by side, two deep with the sides removed & replaced by additional frames (i.e. approx. 21-22 frames of side-by-side frames), I'm guessing most queens would prefer to lay on the two lower full-depth supers first before venturing up to the second level. Some of the feral hives I've removed indicated the queen preferred a side-to-side area where she could easily moniter brood activity. Since this is only my 'guess' does anyone have any professional insight to preferred laying patterns? Matthew in Castle Rock, CO > I saw a phenomenon that I have not seen in any of my other hives. > Every top > bar comb from the front of the hive to the back (about 15-20 combs) > had 3-5 > inches of capped honey at the top and pollen and brood on the bottom. > There > was not a single comb that was entirely honey or entirely brood, even > at the > very back away from the entrance. The brood pattern was nice, the > bees seemed > healthy, but the brood was spread out horizontally over the entire > length of > this long top bar hive. > Layne Westover -College Station, Texas, U.S.A. (look at a map for > latitude and longitude) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 08:38:08 -0800 Reply-To: JamesCBach Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: JamesCBach Subject: Storing honey supers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Paul Cronshaw, D.C. says a fellow beekeeper asks about storing supers in sunny Santa Barbara. I don't know whether you have received sufficient answers to your question. I saw some good remarks about storing brood combs separate from white honey combs. That is an excellent idea. Wax moths may not fly into the equipment, their eggs are probably already in there. At least up here in Washington that appears to be the case. Leave your honey supers in a closed garage for two weeks after removal from the hives in early September and you'll see wax moth larvae. I wouldn't advise torching equipment, it is too much work for the possible benefit. Wax moth eggs are in the grooves of the bottom and top bars and in small openings between the comb and frame parts. They may of course be in the rabbits of the boxes too. I use Paradichlorobenzene (moth crystals, moth cakes). I prefer the moth cakes I can buy at the grocery store or wholesaler because they don't dissipate as fast as crystals and I don't have to replace them like I used to with crystals. I realize that the crystals from MannLake Supply are the only registered product on the market for wax moth control in bee hives. But the moth cakes are the same active ingredient and are more cost effective. Each cake protects 20 cu. ft. of space, that's about six deep supers. Place one up between the combs of the top super, or under the hive cover. The fumes are heavier than air so fall to the bottom of the stack of supers. Tape any openings between the equipment to retain the chemical. Up here (on the coast) about 1/4 to /2 of the cake is still present in March. I also protect white honey combs because they often have pollen in them if they were close to the brood nest due to aberrant behaviors of the bees. I store my supers wet because they serve as bait combs when replaced on the hives in the spring. That is, they tend to draw bees up out of the brood nest, reducing crowding and the tendency to swarm. James C. Bach jbach@agr.wa.gov jcbach@yvn.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 10:23:37 -0600 Reply-To: boby@lakecountry.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Young Subject: 2:1 syrup MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here is how I have solved my problems with mixing 2:1 syrup. I bought a blender at a garage sale for $2.00.( still had the original price tag stuck on it) Put in the water, then the sugar; the water doesn't even have to be hot; and in 20 seconds I have crystal clear syrup. I can make about 40 oz. a batch at a time, about a gallon a minute,and it beats standing over a hot stove stirring. BobYoung Lindale,TX ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 10:21:35 -0500 Reply-To: vcoppola@froggernet.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Vince Coppola Subject: Re: Drones and Varroa MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aaron Morris wrote: > Stan Sandler wrote: > > >> If so, a drone method selects > >> a new mite population with preferring lady bee brood ... > > > >What an interesting observation, Rimantas! And logically correct. > > Actually, this is not logically correct - drone trapping should not > select for mites that prefer worker brood, and here's why. At the time > when one employs the drone trapping method there is plenty of drone > brood available to accommodate (play host to) all the varroa within a > hive. It is not until late in the season when there is not enough > drone brood to go around that varroa migrate to worker brood. > Presumably when drone trapping, the dynamics of the varroa population > change. You only select for varroa who prefer worker brood if you let > the dynamics reach that point. If you're drone trapping right through > the season the mites never reach the point that they are forced to > select their second choice (worker brood). There is a great article in > this month's ABJ written by Bob Horr dealing with this topic. Highly > recommended! > Hi All, The factor that has made the impact of varroa on western beekeeping so great is that in western bees varroa mites do enter and reproduce in worker cells as well as drone. The rate at which worker and drone cells are infested are a constant for a given colony and is based on the number of worker and drone cells being capped, and the population of the colony. The ratio between these rates is a genetic based variable and may be an important factor in selecting for varroa resistance. I'm not sure if anyone has figured out what causes this. Juvenile growth hormone, qualities of nurse bees, larval food have been considered. Perhaps a scientist out there can help with this. In any case, the effectiveness of drone removal to control varroa is dependent on the specific bees being treated as well as any preference for drone or worker larvae the mites may have. Another point to consider is colony dynamics. The number of drone larvae in a colony is among other things inversely related to the number of drones in a colony. If drone brood is removed there will eventually be a "shortage" of drones. The colony will respond by producing more drone cells. I think this would help if you are trying to use this control method. The number of drones is also related to colony strength. I wonder how the method works when there are many weak colonies? So, getting back to the idea that varroa may become resistant to the drone removal method, I personally think it is possible but not probable because other, more common, control methods are in use. These other controls will interfer with the resistance to drone removal devoloping. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 13:37:07 -0800 Reply-To: smo@abac.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Roger Sonnenberg Subject: Value of rosemary MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I'm wondering just how much value common rosemary has for my girls. This time of year, So. Cal., at about 4000 ft. elev., my rosemary is in full bloom. The days can be quite nice and the little gals are covering the flowers. I however don't see allot of increase in the hive. Any comment from you "beekeepers" would be appreciated. Thanks, Roger ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 15:06:45 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Mixing 2:1 syrup MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob's idea that he shared is great. Here is mine for making a 60 pound pail at a time. I bought a dry wall mixer at Home Depot, $12. This is about 40" long, with a paddle wheel at the bottom and fits into a 1/2" drill. I put two 25 pound bags of sugar in the pail, fill with warm/hot water until I can see the water cover the sugar, put in the mixer and "hold on". I also use the dry wall mixer and a 60 pound pail to make Crisco/Terra/Sugar patties. I melt the Crisco first by putting the 5 pound can in the oven. The dry wall mixer can handle the heavy job, and the Crisco quickly re-solidifies and makes great patties at a fraction of the cost of buying them prepared. Lloyd LloydSpear@email.msn.com Owner, Ross Rounds(tm) the finest in comb honey production. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 14:20:17 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Apiservices Subject: Book - Beekeeping in South Africa MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi Garth and all, Garth wrote: = >Another book that is quite interesting to read is Beekeeping in >South Africa, I don't know the exact reference. You can find references for books in the Virtual Beekeeping Gallery, address http://www.beekeeping.com Use the internal search engine. The Gallery has 1 100 pages ! For this book, the exact reference is : Beekeeping in South Africa Anderson R.H., Buys B, Johannsmeier M F Department of Agricultural Technical Services South Africa Bulletin n=B0394 190 pages ISBN 0 621 01165 7 Best regards. Gilles RATIA International Beekeeping Consultant Webmaster of the "Virtual Beekeeping Gallery" APISERVICES Beekeeping Development "Le Terrier" F-24420 Coulaures - FRANCE Phone: +33 (0)5 53 05 91 13 Mobile: +33 (0)6 07 68 49 39 Fax: +33 (0)5 53 05 44 57 Email: gilles.ratia@apiservices.com Web: http://www.beekeeping.com and http://www.beekeeping.org and http://www.apiculture.com and http://www.apicultura.com and http://www.imkerei.com and http://www.apiservices.com Latitude : N 45=B0 17' Longitude : E 001=B0 01' ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 13:56:19 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Scott question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Scott, in East Tennessee, said "Just went back today to remove apistan and have very few bees in the hive,1000-2000 maybe, very slow moving,(other hives we were in today had lots of activity) no brood, and a fair number of yellow jackets," The hive was strong when the strips were inserted, and Scott wonders "what happened". Scott, you didn't say when you put the strips in, but I am surmising it was August or September. From your description it is not possible to really tell what happened, but it seems you had a young queen, so that should not have been a problem. My guess is either: - Your hive was all ready severely weakened by Varroa when you put the strips in and could not recover. The fact that there were many bees and they were working well, does not mean the hive was not weakened by Varroa. As you have seen from reading recent messages, in July/August Varroa will reach peak populations and may start feeding extensively on worker brood. Once that happens, there is not a lot you can do as the mites are in sealed cells and will not be damaged by strips. If both worker bees and larvae are heavily infested, the hive can collapse in 2-3 weeks, even with strips present. - Your hive swarmed without your knowledge and failed to rear and mate a new queen, or "something" killed you new young queen, and the new queen did not mate. Keep the combs, they are very valuable. Protect from wax moth and mice, and start a new hive or hives with them next spring. Good luck. Lloyd LloydSpear@email.msn.com Owner, Ross Rounds(tm) the finest in comb honey production. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 23:26:25 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Elias Gonzalez San juan Subject: Fwd: beekeeping in tropical america MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all Cesar Flores wrote: > Does anyone know of any good references for techniques used > to work african bees in central/south america? There are a book published in Central America (in Spanish): LA ABEJA AFRICANIZADA (The africanized honeybee) Dario Espina Perez Editorial Tecnologica de Costa Rica. 1985 ISBN: 9977-66-006-9 Happy weekend for all. Elias Gonzalez. beepress@iedatos.es La Palma. Canary Islands. 28 North - 18 West. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 19:14:07 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: david yates Subject: Feeding Bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Would someone be kind enough to explain to me how to feed bees using the "baggie" method? If this has been covered recently on the list, just email me with the details. Thanks! Dave Yates lat. 37 long. 87 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 19:00:19 -0600 Reply-To: lithar@midwest.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: AL Subject: Re: Feeding Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit david yates wrote: > > Would someone be kind enough to explain to me how to feed bees using the > "baggie" method? If this has been covered recently on the list, just email > me with the details. Pour the syrup into a 1 gal heavy duty ziplock bag. I usually fill the bag 1/2 - 2/3 full - any more and you'll probably have spillage during the cutting phase of the operation. Lay the freshly filled baggie(s) on the top bars of the uppermost box in the hive. Using a single edge razor slice the bag lengthwise - 2 or 3 cuts will do. Keep the cuts a couple of inches from all edges of the bag. My feeder usually has some air that bleeds out then a little syrup dribbles out - a few dribbles are good since they signal the bees "dinner's on". Place an empty super on the hive and then the cover. I will sometimes use two baggie feeders if the situation seems to call for it. This method is appropriate for late summer/early fall or spring, but not winter since you'll have to open the hive more often than with the larger feeders. I've noticed that an hour after starting the feeding, the bees are especially crazy in the vicinity of the hive. I've decided that it is because they have a dance for food at a distance, a dance for food nearby, but they don't have a dance for "its in the attic". Hope this helps. AL