From MAILER-DAEMON Fri Sep 17 12:13:28 1999 Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA26500 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:13:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09773 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:13:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199909171613.MAA09773@listserv.albany.edu> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:13:21 -0400 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8d)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG9812A" To: adamf@TITAN.METALAB.UNC.EDU Content-Length: 167558 Lines: 3819 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 03:36:50 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Green Subject: Re: Steve Buchmann replies Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/30/98 8:14:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, buchmann@TUCSON.ARS.AG.GOV writes: > Of > course, even though honey bees are "Jills" of all trades, they don't visit certain > nectarless flowers (e.g. tomato blossoms) for which, we thankfully have > bumblebees. Nice post, Steve. As one who got the final push to get beehives the year my tomato blossoms were covered with honeybees, and we got a bumper crop of early 'maters, I'd have to qualify a bit here. Personally, it seems that honeybees will ignore tomatoes for five years, and the sixth year, be all over them. Like Andy, I've had pesticide damage from tomato applications, so I know they are working the blossoms. I guess what I'd say is that for consistant pollination, go with bumblebees, but honeybees can't hurt, and some years will add a lot. I'm sure the process for "deciding" what blossoms honeybees forage is rather complex, and might not even be decipherable by humans. >The reporter asked me bluntly whether pollination would > be eliminated if all the honey bees were somehow (obviously this is > impossible and ill-advised) removed from the Tucson city limits. I told > him no, you wouldn't stop all the pollination, because of the rich > bee biodiversity in this area. He took it from there and made some > wrong-headed statements. As one who has dealth often with the media, I could just see this happening. Reporters, even print reporters seem to think in terms of "sound bytes." There is one thing that I do want to point out. I am not accusing you at all here, but there is an element of the scientific/academic community that loves to bash honeybees. This probably is the source of Andy's intense feeling. I've written some letters myself on the subject, where I've seen it happen, and it probably is a lot more common than what I see. Beekeepers are the natural constituancy for concern for all our bee populations, and those who bash honeybees are risking alienating their constituancy. Commercial beekeepers, especially those who migrate, are among the hardest working people on earth, and they constantly put up with folks who haven't the slightest idea how important they are in the food chain. Financial rewards are not even close to being in league with the true value of their work. Being harrassed by those who have no understanding of this, is bad enough. But then when a salaried and perked gummit employee starts actually denying your value, it really gets your dander up. I watch all pollinating bees, in an effort to give a professional job to my pollination clients. Ten years ago, there was a much larger population of solitary bees, than now. This spring we did pollination in a large peach orchard. Prior to bringing in the hives, there were almost no bees at all, just occasional carpenter bees. The small, solitary bees that once were the primary pollinators were almost entirely absent. Once we had the hives in, the bee foragers were 99.999% honeybees. I told the grower he would be wise to reintroduce solitary bees, as they will work a few degrees colder than honeybees. Why are they missing? In my estimation it is a mix of pesticide misuse (jumping the gun on petalfall sprays, blooming orchard floor plants), fire ants (many solitary bees are ground-nesting, and especially vulnerable) and loss of cover (clear cut logging). Anyone who in interested in pollination should spend some time in the cotton growing regions of the southeast. Genetically engineered cotton has helped a bit in the last couple years, but I understand that growers are not happy with yields, so this may be going back out. At any rate, the rich bee diversity that you have in the Tucson area, can no longer be found here. Whether they could recover their previous populations is the question. > Let's say a prayer of thanks just past Thanksgiving and think of what > we owe pollinating animals (about 200,000 species the world over, > including foremost- BEES, but also bats, birds, butterflies, moths, flies, > beetles and wasps). Amen! > 1) One third of our diets (fruits, vegetables, seeds) comes from the > pollinating activities of bees and other pollinators, but mostly > bee-pollinated plants. > > 2) Cotton, flax and other textiles. Cotton bolls start out as cotton > flowers that are visited and pollinated by bees. > 3) Beverages- many juices and other beverages from fruits that began > as bee-pollinated flowers. > > 4) Medicines/dyes- Again, same story. Many of these naturally occuring > chemicals come from fruits and seeds that bees visited in their > tireless search for pollen and nectar and moved the pollen around. > I have been a firm supporter of organic and sustainable agriculture > and the dangers of insecticides for honey bees and all bees. I especially > disliked being called a "dusty." > For these, and many other reasons, the proudest accomplishment of my > career to date, has been the far-reaching. effects of "The Forgotten > Pollinators Campaign" which I co-founded with Dr. Gary Paul Nabhan > at the Arizona-Sonora Desert Museum in Tucson. Our work goes on. > In fact, on January 15, 1999 in Washington, D.C. we will be present a > a Pollinator Breakfast and Roundtable hosted by Secretary of the > Interior Bruce Babbitt. Many government leaders and representatives > of NGO's and the media will be there. I look forward to sharing the > message of "saving/conserving all pollinators" with them. Good luck. I hope you get a real hearing. Pesticide misuse is still our biggest bee problem, whether you consider the direct effects on the bees, or the driving of beekeepers bankrupt. Dr Sanford has an excellent article on "Pollination, the Forgotton Agricultural Input," which I'm sure you are aware of, but I mention for the list. It's available at the APIS page. > Finally, for myself, and the other scientists at the Carl Hayden Bee > Research Center, are VERY grateful indeed for the support of the > beekeeping industry. Without such support, I wouldn't have a job, nor much food >on the table. In fact, the industry was instrumental in keeping our doors >open in October, 1996. We have several beekeepers on our Liaison >committee and we value their inupt/review of our publically-funded research >every year when they visit us for two days. We value their input and friendship. >P.S. You might enjoy following these links >Visit G.E.A.R.S. at http://gears.tucson.ars.ag.gov/ >Steve's homepage >http://gears.tucson.ars.ag.gov/home/buchmann/index.html Great pics! >Forgotten Pollinators: http://www.desert.net/museum/fp/ Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html The Pollination Home Page: http://www.pollinator.com Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 17:11:04 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Dr. Reimund Schuberth" Subject: Re: old bee boxes and frames MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Ines Kinchen An: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Datum: Dienstag, 1. Dezember 1998 12:41 Betreff: old bee boxes and frames Dear Ines according to the literature and German experiences it should be enough to clean them out and scroch them with a propane torch, as you where told. But you should heat the wood until the fibres of the wood begin to burn and the colour of the wood beginns to change darker. Plastic boxes cannot be heated by this way because they might burn or deform. Plastic boxes should be cleaned with a low concentrated NaOH-Solution, but special protection-equipment (long gloves, goggles), is necessary for this work Quite the same method as I told before can be used to desinfect the frames. But mostly it isn't done because of the lower price of the frames and the amount of work. The wax has to be removed before desinfection work. In Germany it can be sold legally but has to be signed as "contaminated wax". It's used for candle making or desinfected by higher temperature. >If we have to get rid of the frames, can we still use the old boxes? If the boxes are quite good and doing their work you should reuse them after desinfection. It's your money ..... Sincerely Reimund ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Beekeeper in Germany (Bavaria) Queen Rearing of Carniolan Bees Insemination Station ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 500 North, 110 East ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 15:13:26 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: old bee boxes and frames MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As one who has gone down the route of torching AFB infected hive boxes, I would never do it again. I would buy new and have peace of mind. I always worried that I did not get all the AFB spores, and even though I never had it again, every time I looked into a charred box, I wondered. After seven years, all the charred boxes are gone now and I am much happier. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:52:20 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: morty lipton Subject: Re: Steve Buchmann replies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I know a bit more about tomatoes and strawberries than I do about bees. It has always been my understanding (based on reference reading) that they were largely self-pollinating although I have at times seen bees visiting some varieties of tomato plants. After reading your post I tried the words tomatoes and pollination on Excite & the first entry was "Mother Earth News , Sep/Oct 1987 Bring new pleasures and superior plants to your garden By Nancy Bubel Some common self-pollinators are tomatoes, lettuce, peas, snap beans, soybeans, lima beans, endive and escarole. " http://www.zetatalk2.com/food/tfood09l.htm (deceased) I suspect that we probably shouldn't generalize about broad plant classifications. for example a Brandywine tomato is worlds apart from a cherry tomato and a day-neutral strawberry requires considerably different culture than the more commonly grown June berries. I think that what you concluded from your experience with pea varieties makes a lot of sense. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:19:44 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Bee stings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tom wrote "After twenty-five years of keeping a few hives, I have not become immune and stings hurt just as much as they ever did." Yeah, me to. The "hurt" just does not go away! However, I no longer swell or itch, so I can just forget the sting, while knowing that I will have 60-90 seconds of pain. To me, that means I have some degree of immunity. Lloyd Email LloydSpear@msn.com Owner, Ross Rounds(tm), the finest in comb honey production. http://www.rossrounds.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 20:25:44 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Horacio Villa Subject: Re: old bee boxes and frames MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The method I know is to put the boxes and the frames (without wax) in = paraffin at about 160 degrees Celsius, for about 10-15 minutes. That = kill all the spores. The method is also good for preserving the wood.=20 Horacio Villa Buenos Aires - Argentina ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 15:23:53 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Steve Buchmann replies Comments: cc: buchmann@TUCSON.ARS.AG.GOV Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To Bee-L people: Steve Buchmann wrote (in part --- in response to a potential "brushfire"): ************* "I was simply trying to explain to [the Arizona Daily Star reporter] (they don't like long answers) that southern Arizona has more native bees (about 1,200 species) than anywhere else on the planet and that those bees visit and pollinate a lot of crops and wildland plants. Also explained that honey bees are generalists and do a lot of flower-visiting and pollinating. Of course, even though honey bees are "Jills" of all trades, they don't visit certain nectarless flowers (e.g. tomato blossoms) for which, we thankfully have bumblebees. The reporter asked me bluntly whether pollination would be eliminated if all the honey bees were somehow (obviously this is impossible and ill-advised) removed from the Tucson city limits. I told him no, you wouldn't stop all the pollination, because of the rich bee biodiversity in this area. He took it from there and made some wrong-headed statements." ******** Let me echo that statement by Dr. Buchmann. Most often I dread an upcoming interview with a reporter. All too often (with an extremely limited expertise and biases) reporters come into an interview with a particular slant already locked into the pending story. Furthermore, their deadline always seems to be "yesterday," which means that they don't want (or have time) to do extensive revisions of the thrust they already had in mind. With that in mind, beekeepers, please take what you read in newspapers and magazines with a good dose of salt. In this day of electronic mail, a brushfire can quickly become a firestorm before the person interviewed can have a chance to correct the inaccuracies already in print. (I know, because I have been in the spot a good many times this past few decades --- both before and after the advent of electronic mail.) Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 963-8508 (home phone) 967 Garcia Road (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 **************************************************************************** ********** * * "The [scientist] within the [thought] collective is never, or hardly ever, * * conscious of the prevailing thought style, which almost always exerts an * * absolutely compulsive force upon his thinking and with which it is not * * possible to be at variance." * * Ludwik Fleck (1935; 1979) * * **************************************************************************** ********** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 22:28:23 PST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Re: Treating old boxes In-Reply-To: <199812012317.JAA19636@iccu5.ipswich.gil.com.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Horacio wrote:- > The method I know is to put the boxes and the frames (without wax) in = =3D > paraffin at about 160 degrees Celsius, for about 10-15 minutes. That = =3D > kill all the spores. Can you please quote the scientific papers for this as I am very interest= ed in temperature v's time relationships to kill AFB spores. > The method is also good for preserving the wood. This is not the case in Australia nor the USA. In the USA, there has bee= n published data to show that wax dipping does not stop decay. Here in = Australia, there is very strong anecdotal evidence to show that, unless = the timber has natural durability against decay, the wax dipping will not= prevent the timber from decaying (rotting). Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 10:03:07 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Bee stings Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello All Perhaps as a relatively newcomer to the craft (this is my second year), I can give my short experience of bee stings to date, and what I do to try to minimise them. I work the bees without gloves unless they are in a vicious mood, and it is necessary to keep on working them, in which case I will wear gloves (at that stage usually on well stung hands!, and possibly with a few bees trapped inside the gloves to add to my woes!). The stings hurt no less than on my first day, but the swelling is certainly less. I am of the opinion that the mental attitude of the beekeeper has a lot of influence on this particular aspect of beekeeping. I believe that each time I handle a hive there is a good possibility that I will be stung, but I normally behave so as to minimise this possibility. However, I sometimes like to obtain a few stings for what I believe has therapeutic benefit, but this belief is not shared by many of my beekeeping friends, many of whom who see bee stings as something to be assiduously avoided. I use vaseline liberally on all hive surfaces which touch. This has a marvellous effect, since it makes it so easy to open up the hive without causing vibration which really antagonises the bees. (I will liberally apply vaseline to all of my hives again next spring). Sometimes the vaseline allows me to get in and get out quickly without the bees being aware of my presence. When the hive is open, work quickly and with attention. Pay attention to where your fingers are touching the hive parts and the bees. This will save bees from being crushed. Ignore any bees which crawl on your hands or fingers, except to avoid crushing them. If a bee is on your hand for a few seconds and has not stung you, chances are that it won't, unless it is in danger of being crushed. Avoid moving your hands quickly over the supers or brood boxes. Rapid movement really annoys them. And do not cause any vibration, no banging crown boards or roofs against the hive, or tramping around the hives, they cannot hear, but they certainly respond badly to vibration. I once asked an experienced beekeeper how to avoid crushing bees and he replied - 'Move your hands more slowly than the bees move'. Someone once described the correct movement of a beekeeper as like the slow motion we sometimes see on TV broadcasts. If things get too hectic, I try to recognise that the bees are just not in form for my intrusion, and unless it is absolutely necessary, (such as at a distant apiary etc.), I just close up shop, consider discretion as the better part of valour, and come back another day. Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland e mail cssl@iol.ie Tel + 353 1 289 5269 Fax + 353 1 289 9940 Latitude 53 Degrees 16' North Longitude 6 Degrees 9' West of Greenwich ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 08:58:38 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: GATT and HONEY Greets All Interesting reading all the opinions on world trade. Understandably there is a lot of hard feeling here on all sides as it is human nature to feel that one is being done under - that's why humans are competitive. In the US it may appear tough, with on interest rate of 5.something, increasing expenses etc. But feel happy that one has reasonably low crime, cheap untaxed fuel, cheap vehicles and a reasonably accessible bee research fraternity should it be needed. Feel sorry for the beekeeper in Zimbabwe who has to deal with a 60% devaluation in currency over the last five weeks, 50% interest rates, vehicles that have to be bought in US$ or SA Rands etc. BUT - feel jealous for the Zim beekeeper who can sit under a tree in shorts/miniskirt depending on gender on any month of the year and who can still experience such novel bee losses as having an elephant sit on a hive!! Feel envious of the Chinese beekeeper who has a government subsidy. Feel sorry for the Chinese beekeeper who is having her/his economy undermined by the first world and who has no global media network strong enough to tell her/his story. And so on. My take home message is that if at present beekeeping appears unprofitable - it must be fine tuned. It's similar to a beehive - adapt or swarm. In temperate climates the bees tended to adapt - in the warm areas they swarm. Same for beekeepers?? Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis 6139 South Africa Time = Honey The Universe is not here right now, if you would like to leave a message, leave your name and number after the long silence and it will get back to you as soon as possible. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 12:42:42 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Bee Truck Crashes! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" BEE TRUCK CRASHES I doubt that there is anything more demoralizing to a commercial beekeeper then to hear or read these words, "Bee Truck Crashes". Like they say it does happen and it does make the news. At least three times this moving season so far that I have read about myself. That is bad as any highway accident is, but not so bad when you figure the number of loads of bees being moved each season. The last crash was reported by (AP) on the first of December and hundreds of news outfits picked it up from Washington state to Maine. But only one newspaper did a real news story on it with information on how the beekeepers who owned the bees felt about it and some of their own personal background. Check it out, and also check out how the majority reported it at two articles below this one, at: http://beenet.com/bnews.htm Chow, the OLd Drone http://beenet.com Los Banos, Ca (California not Canada) (c)Permission is given to copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 14:45:42 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Swintosky, Michael D." Subject: FGMO Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I'm not making a testimonial as to the effectiveness of FGMO for treatment of mites at this time. But I would like to offer some thoughts on the delivery method I've been using. Basically, it is nothing more than a standard grease patty with FGMO substituted for 50% of the Crisco shortening, and powdered sugar substituted for 25% of the granulated sugar. The recipe for 3 pounds of mix is as follows: 3 cups (1 1/2 lb) granulated sugar 2 cups (1/2 lb) powdered sugar 1 cup (1/2 lb) Crisco 1 cup (1/2 lb) Food Grade Mineral Oil Ingredients are combined and mixed at a medium-high speed. The resulting mix has the consistency of an extra-light cake frosting. Notes/observations are as follows: 1. The mix with 100% granulated sugar wasn't too stable. That is, the MO tended to separate out fairly quickly. The powdered sugar substitution improved the stability. Another solution might be to run the granulated sugar through a high-speed blender to pulverize it somewhat, thus increasing the sugar surface area to be coated by the MO and shortening. Yet another solution might be to simply add more sugar to the mix. That would likely speed up the rate at which the bees would work the mix. I don't know the optimum consumption rate for effective treatment so I can't offer a recommendation here. My gut feeling is that I wouldn't add more sugar. Dr. Rodriguez indicated that a small amount of MO goes a long way so quick consumption probably is not necessary. 2. 3 lb of this mix fits nicely in a gallon food storage bag. To apply the mix, I close the top of the bag with a twist tie and I cut off one of the corners of the bag. I then squeeze the bag, thus extruding the mix through the small hole in the corner of the bag and applying the mix to the top bars in the brood chamber of the hive. 3. A food storage bag works nicely for a small number of hives. A pressurized canister with a hose attachment would be handy for treatment of a larger number of hives. 4. Top bars that have never been exposed to this treatment will absorb a fair amount of MO out of the mix. This leaves behind a somewhat "dry" mix that presumably is less effective as a treatment for varroa mites. Subsequent applications will leave a greater amount of MO available for mite treatment. 5. I expect that treatment with MO, whether by this method or any other, needs to be fairly continuous year round. The possible exception might be during winter months where there is a break in brood rearing. If mites are reduced to an acceptable level at the point where brood rearing stops, it may not be cost effective to treat again till near the time when the queen begins laying again. Comments, direct or to the list, are welcome. Mike Swintosky Dellroy, Ohio ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 12:36:22 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Keeler, Lisa" Subject: Re: Bee stings Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tom Barrett wrote: >I use vaseline liberally on all hive surfaces which touch. This has a >marvellous effect, since it makes it so easy to open up the hive without >causing vibration which really antagonises the bees. (I will liberally apply >vaseline to all of my hives again next spring). Can anyone tell me if you can apply vaseline where the frames rest in the supers and brood chambers to keep the frames from getting propolised? Is there any harm to having vaseline actually inside the hive? Lisa K. 2 hives - 3 years Indiana (40deg 42min N; 86deg 60min W) The opinions expressed here are strictly those of the writer. > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 17:52:31 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Kai-M. Engfer" Subject: Dunkle Biene - Dark Europ. Bee MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Hi all, there is a new homepage of the reintroduction and resettlement of the Dark European Honeybee in Germany: http://www.uv.ruhr-uni-bochum.de/Forschungsberichte190020/p05.htm Kai-M. Engfer, Tel. 04347-8861 \| Ostlandstr. 1, http://insel.heim.at/mainau/330017 -|||8< D-24247 Mielkendorf /| ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 14:42:14 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Partin Subject: Re: Bee stings In-Reply-To: Computer Software Solutions Ltd 's message of Wed, 2 Dec 1998 10:03:07 GMT Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) If I allowed my labor to do all those things I would go broke paying slow moveing labor. If you are makeing a living beekeeping you have to work faster than that. Getting stung is mental, you get accustom to stings and you go on and get the job done. We require our labor to wear suits and gloves . If you work enoough bees you learn to control them. We have found out that it does not help to light a smoker when we unload trucks they seem to calm down just as quick if you use one or not. They do not sting very bad when you are on a loader. If you are haveing trouble with bee stings you just haven't worked enough bees. BUD ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 17:51:48 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: FGMO MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all Excellent idea, Micheal. I have a few comments: >1. The mix with 100% granulated sugar wasn't too stable. That is, the >MO tended to separate out fairly quickly. The powdered sugar substitution >improved the stability. Another solution might be to run the granulated >sugar through a high-speed blender to pulverize it somewhat, thus increasing >the sugar surface area to be coated by the MO and shortening. Instead of granulated sugar (sucrose) I have used dextrose (corn sugar) when making up sugar and TM (terramycin) for dusting. Dextrose is very fine, just about as fine as TM and the price is not a lot higher than sucrose. You can find it in bulk stores or at your local home brewing supply store. This would mix better with the FGMO. >4. Top bars that have never been exposed to this treatment will absorb >a fair amount of MO out of the mix. This leaves behind a somewhat "dry" mix >that presumably is less effective as a treatment for varroa mites. >Subsequent applications will leave a greater amount of MO available for mite >treatment. I have been putting a thin coating of FGMO on the top of the inner cover, the logic being that bees routinely "hang out" there in warm weather. (In colder weather I put in on the underside of the inner cover.) You could put your mixture there also, although it will most likely absorb some mineral oil initially, but the inner cover is much thinner than a top bar so it should leach less mineral oil out. My two cents, Ian Watson ian@gardener.com real estate agent baritone gardener beekeeper---> 11 colonies ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 19:07:09 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Angel Hicks Subject: Giant Honey Comb MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a giant comb on the side of my house about 3ft wide and about 4ft tall. I would like to get it down away from my house but i also want to save the bees so i can start a hive of my own, is there a way of saving them ,eany input would be helpful....I will buy a hive for them in a few days if someone could give me a price on one. I live in lower Michigan should i wait till spring.................. THANKS JOE HICKS ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 16:42:38 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert E Butcher Subject: Re: Giant Honey Comb Hi Joe, I've cut out a lot of comb this last year. The best way I have found was to make some frames that are 3/4"thick X 1/2" wide the same size as the frames you will use in your bee boxes. String them with 5 or 6 wires , put 2 together, you can use about any thing for hingeson the bottom part of frame. A comb that big use a hot knife or a pair of hedge clippers. cut the comb and lay comb in upside down in frames like a sandwich and close, put rubberbands on ends to tell pairs that are together. Now thats a great catch! have fun bob God Bless You Robert&Teresa Butcher bobbees@juno.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 09:30:41 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Apistan Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello All Peter Dalby wrote that Apistan is now licensed for use in the UK. Am I correct or otherwise when I say, that Apistan and Bayvarol use chemicals which are 'near' related, so that mites resistant to one could be close to being resistant to the other.? Thus the advantage in Apistan appears to be purely on price. Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland e mail cssl@iol.ie Tel + 353 1 289 5269 Fax + 353 1 289 9940 Latitude 53 Degrees 16' North Longitude 6 Degrees 9' West of Greenwich ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 23:03:45 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Alden P. Marshall" Subject: Wrapping Hives In one of last months US Bee Journals there was an interesting article regarding this subject. It described very well the considerations of moisture and heat generation and loss. The casual reader might well conclude as did the author "the bee cluster generates insignificant amounts of heat, so insulating the exterior of the hive is without purpose". In my opinion that statement is incomplete or only half correct. I think there is a misconception that hives are wrapped to help keep the cluster warmer or use less energy to keep itself from getting too cold. A little reflection will reveal that the bee colony is not in cluster a good part of the cold weather season. I don t know exactly the rate of BTU output that occurs during brood rearing but any one who has opened a hive on a cold or cool day (several factors involved) certainly can feel the warmth and it is certainly greater than the approximate 2 BTU s needed to keep the cluster at it s desired temperature. I think most of us agree this figure is relative to the ambient temperature, it will certainly be different for colonies in upper Canada than those down here in New England or (published article authors territory)the Mid Atlantic States. New beekeepers ask me when should they remove the wraps, I suggest they leave them on until they feel compelled to get down into the lower supers. I personally have found that early colony buildup is considerably enhanced with insulation wrap. I have no statistics but I believe evaporational cooling (wind drawing moisture through the wooden hive body) is an unmeasured stress on brood rearing, especially early in the season. Who would dare tell the Canadians that wrapping the hives is just an exercise to sooth the psyche? It is known that the brood area must be kept in the 90 deg. F range and it takes a certain amount of bees consuming a certain amount of carbohydrates to generate the necessary heat. Other factors such as size of brood area and ambient temperature enter the picture as well. The amount of stores consumed to do this is also an issue. If the heat can be conserved (insulation wrap) a number of benefits can be realized such as a)fewer bees to maintain proper brood temperature. b) conceivably a more brood and more rapid buildup. c)less honey stores for the brooding period (heat conversion). There are likely other benefits that do not come to mind or that I just don't know about. Maybe some of you readers out there have something to say on this subject? Alden Marshall B-Line Apiaries Hudson, NH 03051 Busybee9@Juno.com tel. 603-883-6764 ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 05:10:54 -0700 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Wrapping Hives In-Reply-To: <10184065003255@systronix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > I think there is a misconception that hives are wrapped to help keep > the cluster warmer or use less energy to keep itself from getting too > cold. A little reflection will reveal that the bee colony is not in > cluster a good part of the cold weather season. I don t know exactly the > rate of BTU output that occurs during brood rearing but any one who has > opened a hive on a cold or cool day (several factors involved) certainly > can feel the warmth and it is certainly greater than the approximate 2 > BTU s needed to keep the cluster at it s desired temperature. I think > most of us agree this figure is relative to the ambient temperature, ... Good post, and one which reveals more understanding of the ways of bees than statements based on simplistic steady state assumptions. There is absolutely no doubt that wrapping is necessary where I keep bees. I've tried going without and the losses convinced me. That is not to say that wrapping is required every year, but who knows which year will be a killer? Even if hives survive here without wrapping, careful tests have shown me that the ones which were only insulated on top, and covered with plastic on the sides do not yield as many spring splits as the ones that have at least R5 on the sides. We have been unable to see any advantage in going beyond R5. Having said all this, I must admit that there are a few around Edmonton (north of here) who are able to winter successfully with no wrap other than top insulation. Personally I attribute that to the better nutritional status of their bees due to their being in better pollen areas. Being more robust, their bees can stand more abuse by cold weather. Other than bees lacking good and sufficient feed in the late summer and early fall, I find the main cause of winter loss is long cold spells in February when temperatures may reach close to minus forty for a week or more at a spell and be accompanied by strong winds at times. This stresses the bees, since they are old and reduced in numbers and sitting on brood which they attempt to maintain at 95 degrees F. Since their food is by then reduced in quantity and sometimes quality and sometimes receeding from the cluster location -- which cannot move due to the brood -- the bees are very vulnerable. Wraps facilitate the use of any warm spells for relocation of stores. When temperatures moderate at all after a cold spell, bees have been shown to become immediately active. At such times, they raise the interior temperature somewhat and will rearrange their stores if they are able. Some even take flights, even though the absolute temperatures are still inappropriate in our view. A little less heat loss will make a huge difference at such times. > New beekeepers ask me when should they remove the wraps, I suggest they > leave them on until they feel compelled to get down into the lower > supers. I personally have found that early colony buildup is > considerably enhanced with insulation wrap. I have no statistics but I > believe evaporational cooling (wind drawing moisture through the wooden > hive body) is an unmeasured stress on brood rearing, especially early > in the season. This is a judgement call. I've found that leaving wraps on too long can lead to a lot of excess filght which can be a wasteful, and a nuisance when there is nothing available to gather. We unwrap beginning in late March or early April to reduce flying and to facilitate working on the bees. > If the heat can be conserved (insulation wrap) a number of benefits > can be realized such as a)fewer bees to maintain proper brood > temperature. b) conceivably a more brood and more rapid buildup. c)less > honey stores for the brooding period (heat conversion). Precisely. If you are able to understand your bees, you have an opportunity to manage here. While I may want my bees to stay home, someone with abundant pollen at that same time period might want to have the bees flying. So I would unwrap. (S)he wouldn't. Allen --- * Want to cut the volume of mail from BEE-L? * Want to improve the signal to noise ratio? Send email to honeybee@systronix.net saying join bestofbee ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 07:41:33 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: FGMO MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit An observation on this method. I though from Dr. R. that the mite killing mechanism was the same as that he observed on mites on horses, namely the mites were suffocated by the MO. It would seem that putting the FGMO into an icing or more solid state would decrease its efficiency in killing varroa. If you are giving the FGMO a competitor, namely the sugar, to adhere to I would think that you would have to break the surface tension of the FGMO/sugar to have it shift to the varroa. And even if it did, enough oil would remain with the sugar to reduce the transport efficiency compared to FGMO by itsself. Any comments? Bill Truesdell Bath, ME >1. The mix with 100% granulated sugar wasn't too stable. That is, the >MO tended to separate out fairly quickly. The powdered sugar substitution >improved the stability. Another solution might be to run the granulated >sugar through a high-speed blender to pulverize it somewhat, thus increasing >the sugar surface area to be coated by the MO and shortening. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 08:01:52 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "nrsager@capecod.net" Subject: newbie bee questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit So now it's time to remove Apistan (45 days) but I would have to open my hives and it is too cold, like 40 degrees F. Do I just go ahead and do it? Also, we are trying to winter over a small swarm hive. Should we be feeding it now, again it's 40 degrees F or less, it does still have honey stores of it's own of course. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 09:04:18 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Get them strips out! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT nrsager@capecod.net asks a newbie bee question regarding getting Apistan strips out, even though it's 40 dF and too cold. JUST DO IT! Get the strips out. First, 40 dF is NOT too cold to open your hive for the minute it will take to remove the strips. Second, weather forecast for Cape Cod this Sunday is 60dF! If you keep bees, the needs of your bees come first. Plan your schedule so you can remove the strips. The only excuse would be a death in your family, and only if YOU were the family member! Take advantage of the unusually warm December weather and do the right thing, which is get the strips out. Aaron Morris - thinking GET THEM STRIPS OUT!!! Clear 'nuff? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 09:57:15 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Apistan and Bayvoral MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tom, in Ireland, comments on the licensing of Apistan in the UK and wonders if there is really any difference in Apistan vrs Bayvoral, other than price. As I am American, my knowledge is solely what I have been told by Europeans, and is: - The two chemicals are very closely related and if mites are resistant to one it is "likely" they will be resistant to both. - The label instructions for application are very different. My understanding is that Bayvoral label instructions provide that the strips can (should?) be used when supers are on a hive, or during a flow, but that "hive products other than honey" should not be consumed if harvested from a hive where strips were in place during a flow. I also understand that Bayvoral personnel have opined that comb honey is a "product other than honey". Apparently the strips are formulated so that the miteicides are hydrophobic, i.e. they will not be absorbed by water based liquids, including honey. However, they will be absorbed by wax. Apistan label instructions provide for treatment before or after a honey flow, but not during a flow. Thus, there are no restrictions on use of "hive products other than honey". For reasons that are obvious, I am very pleased that Apistan has been approved in the UK. I hope someone will correct me if this information is incorrect or incomplete. Lloyd Email LloydSpear@msn.com Owner, Ross Rounds(tm), the finest in comb honey production. http://www.rossrounds.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 10:39:36 -0500 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: newbie bee questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit nrsager@capecod.net wrote: > So now it's time to remove Apistan (45 days) > but I would have to open my hives and it is too cold, like 40 degrees F. Do I just go ahead and > do it? Also, we are trying to winter over a small > swarm hive. Should we be feeding it now, again > it's 40 degrees F or less, it does still have honey stores of it's own of course. 1) Obviously, you just go ahead and remove the strips. You don't need to take out any frames to do this. (Only be careful not to break the support tabs off when you remove the strips, of course.) 2) How big is your "small" swarm hive? How many hive bodies? If only one, I would recommend combining it with a large hive (just set the hive body on top of the upper recipient hive body - there will be no problem adjusting). If two, but the cluster is in one, just combine that one with a good hive. If two, but the cluster is split, combine both hive bodies with two different strong hives. It's better to do this than have the small colony lost because of its inability to conserve heat during winter. I wouldn't even worry about the queen. The bees will solve that on their own. And you don't have to feed, since hopefully the combined colony will now have adequate stores. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 11:06:59 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Swintosky, Michael D." Subject: Dry Corn Sugar Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Does anyone know if there is a potential problem feeding dry corn sugar to bees, either mixed in patties or dissolved to make a syrup? There have been considerable warnings about corn syrup from acid conversion processes. What conversion process is used for the dry product? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 11:14:03 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Green Subject: Re: newbie bee questions Comments: To: tvf@umich.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/3/98 10:47:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, tvf@umich.edu (Ted Fischer) writes: > 2) How big is your "small" swarm hive? How many hive bodies? If only one, I > would recommend > combining it with a large hive (just set the hive body on top of the upper > recipient hive body - > there will be no problem adjusting). If two, but the cluster is in one, > just combine that one > with a good hive. If two, but the cluster is split, combine both hive > bodies with two different > strong hives. It's better to do this than have the small colony lost > because of its inability to > conserve heat during winter. I wouldn't even worry about the queen. The > bees will solve that on > their own. And you don't have to feed, since hopefully the combined colony > will now have > adequate stores. It sounds as if there is a question about the stores right now in the swarm hive. While I support the idea of combining it with a stronger hive, a box that is light on stores should never be stored on top of any hive during winter. They will then have to use extra stores to heat the empty space above the cluster. Further, the cluster could get into difficulty later in the winter, if there is a cold spell and bees cannot move up into honey. Remember that during cold weather, bees only move upward, never laterally. Newbies - never leave empty supers on a hive throughout the winter, and even partially empty are not so good an idea. Empties can be stored UNDER the cluster without affecting the heat economy and this will give expansion space early next spring. Make sure you have good mouse protection though. With such a combination, one could place the swarm colony temporarily on the top, but should remove it, as soon as the bees combine. If possible, it would be a better idea to put the light, weak colony on the bottom. A little syrup fed to them at combination will keep them from fighting. There is no problem in briefly opening hives in cold weather, for combining these colonies, removing strips, etc. I would not pull out any brood frames and expose them to direct cold, but that may be a moot question, as there are unlikely to be brood frames in December. Even here in South Carolina (very warm, been in 70's and 80's every day) I was expecting to find brood, but find practically none. In fact some colonies do have none, and I would worry about them being queenright, except that the bees act quite satisfied. By mid-January we usually see lots of new brood, but so far they are right on schedule, despite record heat. Perhaps, if there were more bloom, they would start brooding up in this heat, but it has also been so dry, that there is little mustard blooming yet. And mustard is the key flower through the winter here. If you open during cold weather, say 30-50 degrees, move quickly, but gently. Don't break up the cluster of bees, and be careful not to knock adult bees out of the hive, where they may not be able to crawl back in. If it is below 30, I would not open them, except just for a few seconds to pull out strips. Be careful to set the cover back on exactly as it was, so the bee glue will match up, and not leave gaping holes, for them to get robbed out on the next warm day. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html The Pollination Home Page: http://www.pollinator.com Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 11:32:02 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Blane White Subject: Apistan and Bayvoral -Reply Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Hi Everyone, On the question of cross resistance between apistan and bayvoral. If the mites are resistant to one yes they are resistant to the other as well. This was clearly seen in the data obtained when fluvalinate resistant varroa were found in South Dakota USA last fall. In that case neither apistan nor bayvoral provided any significant control of the varroa mites in those colonies. So the only benefit to have both available is you get to pick which one you want to use. You need to have another material with a different chemistry available to rotate with for resistance management. blane ************************************* Blane White MN Dept of Agriculture St Paul, MN blane.white@state.mn.us ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 09:06:23 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: kim willenbrink Subject: Beekeeping in Hawaii MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aloha, I am very new to beekeeping. We have just set up our first hive after removing an unwanted hive from under a porch step. We plan to offer this service and set up at least 10 hives. It seems that beekeeping in Hawaii is unique is some ways and I wonder if there is any written information somewhere to help. Do you know of any or are you familiar with beekeeping practices in Hawaii? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 21:06:24 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Dalby Subject: Re: honey wine MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: j h & e mcadam To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Date: 22 November 1998 15:50 Subject: Re: honey wine >>In Germany I had honey wine and I was wonderig if anybody has heard of it, >>made it, or had the recipe for it. >> Hi all Last week the National Honey Show was held in London[England] There are a number of competative classes for mead which I think is what Betty is referring to as "honey wine". Northern Bee Books in England published a small book a while back titled "Honey Wines & Beers" by Clara Furness.I dont have my copy to hand so cant quote the ISBN no. NBB,s address is--- Northern Bee Books Scout Bottom Farm Mytholmroyd Hebden Bridge West Yorks HX7 5JS Tel[01422]882751 Fax [01422] 886157 e-mail jeremy@recordermail.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 19:59:12 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Harry Goudie Subject: Re: Apistan and Bayvoral MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: Lloyd Spear To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Date: 03 December 1998 17:43 Subject: Apistan and Bayvoral >>My understanding is that Bayvoral label instructions provide that the strips >can (should?) be used when supers are on a hive, or during a flow, but that >"hive products other than honey" should not be consumed if harvested from a >hive where strips were in place during a flow. I also understand that >Bayvoral personnel have opined that comb honey is a "product other than >honey". > >Apparently the strips are formulated so that the miteicides are hydrophobic, >i.e. they will not be absorbed by water based liquids, including honey. >However, they will be absorbed by wax. Apistan label instructions provide >for treatment before or after a honey flow, but not during a flow. Thus, >there are no restrictions on use of "hive products other than honey". I can't comment on Apistan but have read that different instructions exist for the use of Bayvarol depending on which country you happen to live in! The German instructions say that the strips are NOT to be used during a honey flow and that comb honey and propolis should not be sold for human consumption and honey should only be offered for sale if it has been very finely filtered. For English speakers the instructions are different. The strips may be used at ANY time with no withdrawal period required regardless of when Bayvarol was used. Other products should not be taken for human consumption until the spring following treatment! No mention in the English version of filtering the honey. I would be interested to know if a difference exists between the German instructions for Apistan and the English version ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 19:47:24 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Dalby Subject: Re: newbie bee questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: nrsager@capecod.net To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Date: 03 December 1998 17:43 Subject: newbie bee questions >So now it's time to remove Apistan (45 days) >but I would have to open my hives and it is too cold, like 40 degrees F. Do I just go ahead and >do it? Also, we are trying to winter over a small >swarm hive. Should we be feeding it now, again >it's 40 degrees F or less, it does still have honey stores of it's own of course. > Here in England I would not feed liquid sugar at this time of year[winter]. If feeding is needed we would feed candy or bakers fondant. In an emergency Iuse a kilo bag of granulated sugar,damped a little, then after making a small hole in the bag, place it over the feed hole in the inner cover. I keep a couple of bags & a bottle of water in my vehicle in case its needed. Iam however thinking of going over to fondant now I have sourced it localy Peter Dalby ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 18:38:58 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tom Speight Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 1 Dec 1998 to 2 Dec 1998 In-Reply-To: <912661434.2113687.0@uacsc2.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <912661434.2113687.0@uacsc2.albany.edu>, Automatic digest processor writes >Can anyone tell me if you can apply vaseline where the frames rest in >the supers and brood chambers to keep the frames from getting >propolised? Is there any harm to having vaseline actually inside the >hive? No harm at all. Vaseline new frames when made up, let it absorb into the wood and the bees won't(?) build brace comb. The (?) is because I find it fatal to say bees 'won't do anything'. -- Tom S ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 09:34:00 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Buck Rut Subject: Brood Production MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Greetings All, First, I want to thank everyone that contributes information to this list. Since I am new, this has been a great source of information for me. Keep it up. I read a post today, that has got me wondering (yep, dangerous I know). I live in the St. Louis area, and we had a couple of cold spells back in early October. I opened my hives after these cold spells to remove strips. I didnt have much time to check to see if the colonies were queenright, so I checked for brood. Of my four hives, 3 lacked any brood or eggs, and the 4th had only a little brood, and no eggs. Two to three weeks earlier, all hives were queenright, and a few days later, I went back into one of the broodless hives and located the queen. The queens in these hives are unmarked, and have always been really shy. Is it safe to assume that there were queens in the other two broodless hives, and they had just shut down because of the cold? The weather warmed after the cold spells. Would the queen begin to lay brood again at that time, or will she wait till spring? The other two broodless hives were Buckfast queens. Thanks all for your help! Scott Moser Moser's Apiary Cedar Hill, MO. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 17:49:01 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: George W Imirie Subject: Re: bee sting desensitization Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit John: Just got back from 3 week trip and noted your E-mail about allergies to stings. I am in my 65 th year of beekeeping, went into antiphalactic shock 34 years ago when I got about 70 stings in a few minutes. Two honeybee sting SPECIALISTS at Johns Hopkins provided me with the answer: After having bees then for 31 years, I had become so efficient that I was NOT BEING STUNG ENOUGH to maintain a sting immunity. Treatment: Get stung often, even every day. I have done this for the past 34 years, and can get 100 stings all at once without any effect and no change in blood pressure. I really HATE to say this, but it is fact so I must so it. Most allergists, irrespective of their medical school fame or their own knowledge primarily treat "hay Fever", and frankly KNOW LITTLE ABOUT HONEYBEE VENOM. I would suggest you correspond with either Dr. Gulden or Dr. Valentine at Johns Hopkins Medical Center in Baltimore. They have spent the last 30-40 years doing little more than investigating honey bee sting problems. Most allergists tell you to "stop beekeeping", because that is the "easy" way out for them. If you are a "true" devotee of apis mellifera, you will hunt up Gulden and Valentine. Good Luck and Happy Holidays George Imirie ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 20:52:17 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: George W Imirie Subject: Re: Number of Supers per Hive Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Scott: I have ALL Illinois bodies, no deeps or shallows. My brood nest is 3 Illinois bodies 365 days of the year. On April 15th, I put on 5 Illinois supers of DRAWN COMB FRAMES on each colony. I have written many articles about why to put all supers on at one time. You might find them on the www. midnite bee. Depending on your exact area in Mo., I would think your yield would be about the same as Maryland. I average 130 pounds/colony/year, which is very high among most other beekeepers in Maryland or Virginia. George Imirie ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 08:48:18 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Luis Rommel Beutelspacher Subject: Queenless hives and honey (mexico) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello all, Right now we are at the start of the honey flow here in the Yucatan peninsula in southern Mexico, and I have noticed something strange while checking my colonies for the season... (It4s only my second year) I found about 10 hives without a queen (obviously no brood or eggs), but all the brood area is covered with honey. The strange thing is that all of the queen-right colonies do not have such great supplies of honey, only a little honey around the brood area, as usual. So I wonder: Are the queen-less hives working harder for the honey? Or do they have more honey because they have no brood to feed? ...Sorry to bother you, and hope I will get some comments. X-mas greetings to all, ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Luis Rommel Beutelspacher (\ Maya Honey S.A. de C.V. -{|||8- Ticul, Yucatan, Mixico. (/ Tel/Fax (997) 20715 miel@finred.com.mx ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 23:03:44 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: George W Imirie Subject: Re: How much does a full super weigh? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Ernie: Been away 3 weeks, but thought I would answer, because, as a scientist, I am very precise and measure things. A FULL deep averages 70-75 pounds of honey NET A Full Illinois " 40-45 " A Full Shallow 30-35 " New Comb holds more honey because the wax walls are not as thick as old comb. Depending on how fast the nectar flow was, the comb might be thick or thin which changes the weight of honey contained. Hope this helps. Have a nice holiday! George Imirie ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 17:54:25 -1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pat & Mary Franklin Subject: Re: Beekeeping in Hawaii MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aloha to Kim Willenbrink and Everyone, Ag. Extension Services, for the state of Hawaii, has a free 30 or 40 page book on "Beekeeping in Hawaii". Walter has a pretty good page www.hawaiihoney.com . If you have further questions anyone can contact me at pat@aloha.net Pat Franklin ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 22:50:22 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: George W Imirie Subject: Re: Brood Production Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Scott: Just got to the end of over 400 postings on the Bee-L, and found yours. I did not realize that you are a beginner. Forget the Bee-L as a primary source of knowledge, as you will be very confused with the various answers (some just WRONG), based on different temperatures, different flora, different geography, different procedures, etc. DON'T go to the library and read books written before about 1992, because they will not cover the mites, viruses, or Africanized bees in as much as none of these appeared in the US. until the late 80's. Only read new books (I am presently writing a new one for release maybe in 99); and then read the GOOD ONES. The BEST beginners book, perhaps ever printed, was just re-issued in April 98. It is the BEEKEEPER'S HANDBOOK, Third Edition, written by Dr. Diana Sammataro, who initiated the use of grease patties to control the tracheal mite. It is $29.95 from A. I. Root Co., Medina, Ohio, contact beeculture@airoot.com This book will answer ALL of your beginner problems ACCURATELY, and is so filled with pictures and diagrams that learning becomes easy. I wish it had been around when I started beekeeping 65 years ago. Diana is a fine professional scientific beekeeper. You will spend $29.95, but save $100's by not making mistakes that you WILL MAKE by listening to the many advice's of the nice people on the Bee-L. After 2-3 years of experience, then buy the new REVISED 1992 edition of THE HIVE AND HONEY BEE which you will use as a desk copy reference the rest of your life. It is $36. Maybe you can come to the American Beekeeper's Federation meeting in Nashville from January 7-12. I will be giving a workshop on Upgrading beeHAVERS into beeKEEPERS. If you come, please say hello to me. To get more info, go to: http//www.abfnet.org However, I will answer your new question about the queens. In your area of the U.S., Queens take a rest from laying for about 6 weeks, about November 15 to January 1. Regardless of the temperature, snow, or ice, the worker bees will start eating honey about 1/1/99, microscopically move muscles to develop body heat and raise the cluster temperature to 91-96 degrees so the queen will start laying eggs. They will steadily increase all of this slowly so the queen is laying about 1500 eggs/day, which is 2 every minute by about late March. This is the way God planned nature. I hope you have treated for mites, particularly with Apistan so you don't lose your bees over the winter, and I hope each colony has no less than 50 pounds of honey "on board" for winter feed. That is enough for now. Have a fine Holiday and Good Luck. Buy the Book! George Imirie ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 18:49:23 -0500 Reply-To: jrosas@uniandes.edu.co Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jose Rosas Subject: wax.... In-Reply-To: <199812032142.QAA15024@ayax.uniandes.edu.co> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I receive some hives that were on bad shape, after taking a course at the local asociation, I am starting my beekeeping life... lucky I got the list address... because I am learning a lot from every one... I have some questions about wax... how you determine that is the proper time to put new frames ?? and second is how you treat old frames to extract the wax?? Regards, Jose Rosas jrosas@uniandes.edu.co Colombia S.A. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 20:24:27 -1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: marian macy zajac Subject: Re: Beekeeping in Hawaii In-Reply-To: <199812031912.JAA16424@mx1.maui.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Kim There is a company on Hawaii - Kona Queen that sells queen bees. Mark has sent me some information & they are have given me some advise and seem really nice. Here is Marks address markspagnolo@prodigy.net You can call information for the phone number for Kona Queen (Kona). What island are you on ? Sorry I can't help more, I am just learning about beekeeping also. I'm on Maui. Frank ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 10:57:32 GMT+0100 Reply-To: Anthony.Morgan@iet.hist.no Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Anthony Morgan Organization: HiST/AIN/IET Subject: Re: Dunkle Biene - Dark Europ. Bee MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Kai-M. Engfer wrote: > there is a new homepage of the reintroduction and resettlement of the Dark > European Honeybee in Germany: > > http://www.uv.ruhr-uni-bochum.de/Forschungsberichte190020/p05.htm Has anyone managed to find this page? I've tried everything I know including the internal search utility and there is no trace of it or the subject material. Tony ---------------------------------------------------- Anthony N Morgan, Forsteammanuensis Institutt for Elektroteknikk Hogskolen i Sor-Trondelag N-7005 Trondheim, Norway anthony@iet.hist.no Tlf. 73 55 96 04 Fax. 73 55 95 81 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 10:51:37 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: How crisco works Hi All Recently attended a sminar by Dr Gary Needham from Ohio State. He is an acarologist - ie works on mites/ticks and things with eight legs that damge other things (whose names I cannot remember). It was a very interesting talk and a I strongly recommend bee groupds to get him to talk about their work. He mentioned their work on crisco patties. Apparently it was found that a femal tracheal mite crawls out of the bee when it senses things are getting a bit over crowded. It then hands on a protrusion on the bee and waves it's legs around sensing anything else it touches. It can detect the wax and fat composition of a bees exterior. >From work that was done here at Rhodes it has been shown that a young bee has a very different waxy structure to an old bee. I gather that Gary and friends detected that bees that are old dont pass the grade as good hosts because they don't have the richt wax structure. Nevertheless, if one gives the bees crisco, they smear it all over themselves, and begin to smell like 'old bees' to the mites. As a result, any mite that comes out of a bee sits and waves it's feet around until it dies from loss of energy and starvation - none of the host bees smell young enough as a result of intereference by crisco in changing the wax and fat layer!! Quite neat. Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis 6139 South Africa Time = Honey The Universe is not here right now, if you would like to leave a message, leave your name and number after the long silence and it will get back to you as soon as possible. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 10:26:05 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Apistan & Bayvarol Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Blane White wrote: >If the mites are resistant to one yes they are resistant to the other >as well. This was clearly seen in the data obtained when fluvalinate >resistant varroa were found in South Dakota USA last fall.>In that >case neither apistan nor bayvoral provided any significant control of >the varroa mites in those colonies. So the only benefit to have both >available is you get to pick which one you want to use. You need to >have another material with a different chemistry available to rotate >with for resistance management. In my opinion the above post must represent the tolling of the bell for the use of both Apistan and Bayvarol for the control of varroa. Resistant mites in South Dakota last fall, in your hives next year, are we on the slippery slope to calamity?. Again in my opinion, the use of chemicals has played us false. I suppose that the big chemical companies will just pocket the dollars generated by Apistan and Bayvarol, thank you all very much, and let the R&D boys and girls get on with replacing these two products with some other so called treatment for some other problem. What's a few billion bees, when the P&L accounts and the shareholders' interests must be protected?. Maybe now is the time to re visit the FGMO option with significant research dollars while we still have bees to be attacked by varroa. Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland e mail cssl@iol.ie Tel + 353 1 289 5269 Fax + 353 1 289 9940 Latitude 53 Degrees 16' North Longitude 6 Degrees 9' West of Greenwich APISTAN AND BAYVAROL RESISTANT MITES - COMING TO A HIVE NEAR YOU! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 16:56:18 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: George W Imirie Subject: Re: newbie bee questions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Peter: I am NOT a newbie; and hence, I have to ask why you do not feed "liquid sugar", syrup, in the winter? George Imirie ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 08:31:33 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Swintosky, Michael D." Subject: Re: FGMO Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Bill Truesdell wrote: If you are giving the FGMO a competitor, namely the sugar, to adhere to I would think that you would have to break the surface tension of the FGMO/sugar to have it shift to the varroa. And even if it did, enough oil would remain with the sugar to reduce the transport efficiency compared to FGMO by itself. Good comments. I've tried in vain to find information on how regular grease patties are broken down. Do the adult bees consume the grease? Do they merely "lick" the grease off the sugar particles and "spit it out" outside the hive. Does some of the grease get mixed with the other brood food? Just how adherent is the grease (or oil) to the surface of the sugar particles? I guess I don't want to create a mix that is too stable. In fact, it most likely would be desirable if it slowly released the MO over time. I still notice some separation of MO with the current formulation. What I don't know is how available the remaining MO is for effecting mite treatment. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 08:49:58 -0500 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: Number of Supers per Hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit George W Imirie wrote: > My brood nest is 3 Illinois bodies 365 days of the year. On April 15th, I put > on 5 Illinois supers of DRAWN COMB FRAMES on each colony. I have written many > articles about why to put all supers on at one time. You might find them on > the www. midnite bee. George, I assume that "Illinois" supers are the medium depth size, is that right? I understand why it is good to put all supers on at once, but I don't see how you can put them on April 15th and still have time prior to that for Apistan placement and removal after 45 days. (That would be putting Apistan in on March 1!) Or is varroa not a spring problem for you? If I wouldn't treat for varroa in the spring, I wouldn't have anything left by fall. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 10:41:20 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Sugar syrup in winter!?!? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT George W Imirie asks, "why you do not feed "liquid sugar", syrup, in the winter?" I think this advice came from a northern subscriber. In my parts (up- state New York, Lon ? lat ?, USDA Climate Zone 4) this is right on - sugar syrup at this time of year is a waste of time, money and effort. The bees simply won't take the syrup. I'm sure the advice is different in kinder, gentler climates, such as those in Maryland. Aaron Morris - thinking bees in NY are not the same as bees in Hawaii! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 16:58:16 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Dr. Reimund Schuberth" Subject: Re: Queenless hives and honey (mexico) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Luis Rommel Beutelspacher An: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Datum: Freitag, 4. Dezember 1998 16:26 Betreff: Queenless hives and honey (mexico) Dear Mr. Beutelspacher, It is well-known since many years that queenless hives produce a greater honey crop. The reason is not the queen for itself but the amount of brood. Beekeepers often cage the queen shortly before or during a period of good honey flow or take the queen out to get extremely more honey. More workers can become foragers and fly out because there is less brood to be cared for. But it's obvious, the disadvantage of this method is that the hives will brake down if the honey flow lasts too long. >I found about 10 hives without a queen (obviously no brood or eggs), but all >the brood area is covered with honey. The strange thing is that all of the >queen-right colonies do not have such great supplies of honey, only a little >honey around the brood area, as usual. X-mas greetings to all Sincerely Reimund ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Beekeeper in Germany (Bavaria) Queen Rearing of Carniolan Bees Insemination Station ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 500 North, 110 East ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 16:43:33 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Dr. Reimund Schuberth" Subject: Re: Apistan and Bayvoral MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Mr. Goudie, >I would be interested to know if a difference exists between the German >instructions for Apistan and the English version I cannot say whether there is any difference between German and English instruction. All I can say is the following: 1. Apistan isn't used in Germany, as far as I know. 2. Bayvarol wasn't allowed to be used for about 3 years. A few days ago I got a message that it can be used again. 3. The reason for the instruction advises in Germany is clear. Usage of Bayvarol after a honey crop in autumn and for a short time causes less contamination of the wax and honey. Bayvarol dissolves rather good in wax and this can bring it into the honey, if one doesn't filter carefully. Sincerely Reimund ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Beekeeper in Germany (Bavaria) Queen Rearing of Carniolan Bees Insemination Station ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 500 North, 110 East ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 11:06:42 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Keeler, Lisa" Subject: FW: Number of Supers per Hive Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ted Fischer (Michigan) wrote I don't see how you can put them (honey supers) on April 15th and still have time prior to that for Apistan placement and removal after 45 days. (That would be putting Apistan in on March 1!) I think this is a matter of geography again. Here in Indiana, I can envision putting my Apistan in on a rare warm day near the begining of March, 2 out of 3 years. If I was still living in Ontario this would be unthinkable bacause the weather is still very cold until April. Also, I'm not sure that there is much flowering other than the maples and maybe the apricots in mid-April. Could George or someone else change that mid-April recommendation to a statement of what trees or flowers might be out at the time you want to put the supers on? Lisa K. 2 hives - 3 years Indiana (40deg 42min N; 86deg 60min W) The opinions expressed here are strictly those of the writer. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 11:18:37 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Timothy C. Eisele" Subject: Re: Sugar syrup in winter!?!? In-Reply-To: <199812041544.KAA08111@mtu.edu> from "Aaron Morris" at Dec 4, 98 10:41:20 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aaron Morris writes: > > George W Imirie asks, "why you do not feed "liquid sugar", syrup, in > the winter?" > > I think this advice came from a northern subscriber. In my parts (up- > state New York, Lon ? lat ?, USDA Climate Zone 4) this is right on - > sugar syrup at this time of year is a waste of time, money and effort. > The bees simply won't take the syrup. I'm sure the advice is different > in kinder, gentler climates, such as those in Maryland. > Is this true for all types of feeder, or just for some types? And is it because the bees won't break the cluster to go to the feeder, or because the syrup freezes, or because they can't deal with the extra water, or what? I'm concerned about this, because I'm also in Climate Zone 4 (or maybe Zone 3, the border is a bit hazy). Tim Eisele tceisele@mtu.edu ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 12:29:54 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: Re: FW: Number of Supers per Hive Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/4/98 11:18:21 AM Eastern Standard Time, lkeeler@DOWAGRO.COM writes: > don't see how you can put them (honey supers) on April 15th and still > have time prior to that for Apistan placement and removal after 45 days. > (That would be putting Apistan in on March 1!) > Actually putting Apistan in on the first warm enough day in March is what I do here in Connecticut as well as feeding 1-1 syrup to get my colonies booming. There is one hell of a flow here from maple and dandylion early on. Tom in CT ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 13:16:05 -0500 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Winter feeding and spring flows MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (Thomas) (Cornick) wrote: > Actually putting Apistan in on the first warm enough day in March is what I do > here in Connecticut as well as feeding 1-1 syrup to get my colonies booming. > There is one hell of a flow here from maple and dandylion early on. It is interesting to note regional/climatic differences as they impact upon management practices. Some discussion has centered on winter feeding practices - on whether to feed syrup, and if so by what means. In southern Michigan it is really not so cold, but still I would never try to feed syrup anytime during winter. When feeding is necessary I always use candy boards, ever since Roger Hoopingarner (formerly of Michigan State University) promoted their use in place of syrup. In early spring however, I always have felt that the best bee feed for brood rearing is that which the bees collect themselves. We too have wonderful maple flows - the trees are singing with bees at times. But rather than feed, I allow the colonies to use this for their own buildup. It is only after the dandelion bloom has faded that I put on supers for surplus collection. Of course, the fruit tree flow is the colony's as well, but they do so well during late spring and summer months here that I don't begrudge them this treat. Incidentally, this means that I don't have to put on Apistan until April 1, which time subjectively feels a lot better for me. It comes off mid-May, when I am making splits for summer and am in the hives anyhow. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 14:21:00 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Sugar syrup in winter!?!? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Regarding statements I made about not feeding sugar syrup to bees in USDA Climate Zone 4 (perhaps 3), Tim Eisele asks: > Is this true for all types of feeder, or just for some types? And is > it because the bees won't break the cluster to go to the feeder, or > because the syrup freezes, or because they can't deal with the extra > water, or what? To clarify, this is based on my observations using division board and baggie type feeders. I'm not sure why the bees don't take the syrup. When I HAVE fed late in the season, the bees have had opportunity to break cluster on at least some of the days, so I would discount that as the reason. Fall concentration syrup (2 parts sugar to one part water) does not freeze, even in my freezer, so I would discount that as the reason. I don't know if the bees object to the extra water, but remember that 2:1 syrup is VERY thick. However, extra water and clustered bees may be an attributing factor to my observations as well as the possibility that the bees may have sufficient stores so they simply aren't interested in the supplemental feed. All I know for sure is that I have observed untouched fall syrup in my hives enough times in the past that I am confident recommending to beekeepers keeping bees in areas similar to mine to conserve their time, effort and resources when it comes to supplemental feeding after the end of October. And as always, results may vary based on geographic location, climatic fluctuations and possible even sun spots. Aaron Morris - thinking when you cover all the bases someone will simply add more bases! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 11:52:51 -0800 Reply-To: GSTYER@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: George Styer Subject: Re: FW: Number of Supers per Hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In California last year (El Nino) by March 1st I had already had 6 swarms issue from a single hive. I didn't even have a chance to do any swarm management let alone get strips in. Next time I will pay more attention to my bees when they are bringing in hoards of pollen in January! The good news was that I was able to capture all these swarms and combine then into a single colony that produced 2 deeps and 3 mediums of surplus. ---------- > From: (Thomas) (Cornick) > To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: Re: FW: Number of Supers per Hive > Date: Friday, December 04, 1998 9:29 AM > > Actually putting Apistan in on the first warm enough day in March is what I do > here in Connecticut as well as feeding 1-1 syrup to get my colonies booming. > There is one hell of a flow here from maple and dandylion early on. > > Tom in CT ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 17:44:31 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Murray McGregor Subject: Re: Sugar syrup in winter!?!? In-Reply-To: <912786285.101577.0@uacsc2.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 In article <912786285.101577.0@uacsc2.albany.edu>, Aaron Morris writes >George W Imirie asks, "why you do not feed "liquid sugar", syrup, in >the winter?" > >I think this advice came from a northern subscriber. In my parts (up- >state New York, Lon ? lat ?, USDA Climate Zone 4) this is right on - >sugar syrup at this time of year is a waste of time, money and effort. >The bees simply won't take the syrup. I'm sure the advice is different >in kinder, gentler climates, such as those in Maryland. > >Aaron Morris - thinking bees in NY are not the same as bees in Hawaii! I believe the poster who originally was challenge is actually English, and although our climate in Scotland is a little harsher I can say that I support his position on solid feeding. I think the only difference with us is that we do not put it over a feed hole, just straight down on top of the frames, and have never used bags of sugar, but there are many other beekeepers who do feed by this method. Our principle feedstuff is fondant, and we use syrup only rarely nowadays. The fondant is easy and convenient to use and can be provided in the required quantity at any time of the winter by simply placing the cut bag (cut face down across the top bars) over the cluster. In reasonably good conditions early in winter they take it down and store it much as they would thick syrup, only slower, and in cold conditions once the top of the cluster comes up to the top bars they continue on to consume the fondant as if it were a continuation of their own natural stores, straight from the block. We use about 12 to 15 tonnes of this stuff every winter. Syrup on the other hand has to have its storage completed by the bees before the weather gets too cold, and thus does not have the time flexibility of the fondant. In our part of Scotland a rule of thumb would indicate that such feeding should ideally be completed by 15th October if using hive top feeders or a week to 2 weeks later if using frame or contact types. Too late and poorer weather can lead to waste of the syrup in the feeder for several reasons. Unfortunately we run too many hives to be able to have all the honey crop off (our heather crop finishes around 7th Sept) and the bees all home to their wintering areas by 15th October, far less have them all fed and put down to winter. Fondant suits us, the bees like it, and it is not overly expensive. It will however have fewer advantages in warmer areas than ours where bee flight is available throughout a good deal of the winter months. Even for the beekeeper who has ample time to get his bees fed well early enough (the ideal situation to which we probably all aspire but all too infrequently achieve) it would probably still be a fair enough idea to keep a few boxes of fondant handy for emergencies. Kind regards to all -- Murray McGregor ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 15:11:16 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andrew & Tiffany Dubas Subject: Royal jelly , Propolis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit wondering, is there anyone who sells propolis or Royal jelly to the public, what is a good RETAIL price to sell to customers. finding it hard to formulate a price. beehive botanicals has a suggested retail how accurate is it ? thank you Andrew & Tiffany Dubas E-Mail : dubees@enter.net home page : http://www.enter.net/~dubees ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 14:49:42 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Please Censor Me! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This beekeepers would be much happier today if he were just censored for lying! (AP 12-3) BOISE =97 A beekeeper from Carey has been sentenced to 28 months= in prison for making false statements? Check it out at: http://beenet.com/bnews.htm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 22:27:16 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Green Subject: Re: Queenless hives and honey (mexico) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/4/98 2:25:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, miel@FINRED.COM.MX writes: > The strange thing is that all of the > queen-right colonies do not have such great supplies of honey, only a little > honey around the brood area, as usual. So I wonder: Are the queen-less > hives working harder for the honey? Or do they have more honey because they > have no brood to feed? In my experience a strong hive that becomes queenless will temporarily store more honey, and I believe this is because of the lack of brood to feed. As workers die off, and the remainder lose morale, they will lose interest in gathering, and/or not have the population to do the job, so there is then a loss. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html The Pollination Home Page: http://www.pollinator.com Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 22:38:28 -0600 Reply-To: muralynd@earthling.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Rev. Mike Martin" Organization: Crescent Moon Computers Subject: Top Bar Hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've got a few questions from people who have used TB hives... I'm interested in using this form of hive because it suits my purpose (hive products closer to those from the middle ages than you can get out of Lang. hives) but I'm wondering how I would decide where to put apistan strips exactly. I'll be building a couple hives this winter and I'm planning on buying at least one nuc this spring so this is an academic question so far... I'm a rank newbee at this hobby. :) Thanks in advance, Rev. Mike Martin -- Rev. Mike Martin Lord Hrothgar the Smith muralynd@earthling.net TarKhan Blood Red Moon, Irgen Tala-Yin Chinus-Un, Great Dark Horde It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning, it is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 08:59:24 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Timing of varroa MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ted, in Michigan, wonders about putting Apistan strips in as early as March (in Maryland). Ted, unless you are in the Upper Peninsula, our winters in Albany, NY are similar to your own. Much more severe than Maryland. This past year I learned that the most successful commercial beekeeper in the area puts his strips in during February! This lets him use fewer strips and lets him get the supers on early. I intend to do the same this year. Lloyd Email LloydSpear@msn.com Owner, Ross Rounds(tm), the finest in comb honey production. http://www.rossrounds.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 11:48:25 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rimantas Zujus Subject: Re Special hive Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-4" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, David, Anthony and All >Do you have a picture? I haven't seen this double hive myself yet. I have only a profile section drawing of it made by hand. I scanned it and can send directly for you. The designer A.Palskys have no neither photos nor suitable for publishing drawings yet but he is going to publish an article in a local paper. Maybe, this will influence for creating serious pictures. He says the hive is very simple to make and no need for papers. >1. How are the two colonies separated at the brood level - a solid wall, wall with screened openings or what? A solid wall continuing up to the very top of "supers". >2. How are the queens kept out of the super level - queen grid? If no queen grid how are they kept from physical contact with each other? Full isolation by inner solid wall. >3. accessing the brood frames through the super level after removing 6 or so super frames sounds awkward to say the least; but how is this possible, surely the ends of the frame tops will be trapped between the two levels of box - unless the upper box has larger internal dimensions which implies over large bee-space at the frame ends? It's really awkward and it takes more time. But positive results request more strength of a beekeeper. Two additional not fixed boards per one colony are used - front and rear of suitable thickness and height in supers level. (Four boards for one hive) >4. Is the two queen principle used because they stimulate each other to lay better or is there some other reason? In the List (Bee-L) some member witnessed the positive influence even via board. As well, the two blocked hives with a common wall save heat. The bees of both colonies are quite separated. This isn't a case of real two queen colony with common bees. Good luck for those who "have hands" :) Rimantas Zujus Kaunas LITHUANIA e-mail : zujus@isag.lei.lt http://www1.omnitel.net/zu/zu_e.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 19:10:32 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Kai-M. Engfer" Subject: Test with Scutellata in Germany MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Hi all, if You want to have a look of a wonderful Scutellata-bee derived from test colonies in Northern Germany, please note the following url: http://insel.heim.at/mainau/330017/ and click through to the topic "Photos". Kai-M. Engfer, Tel. 04347-8861 \| Ostlandstr. 1, http://insel.heim.at/mainau/330017 -|||8< D-24247 Mielkendorf /| ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 11:07:17 -0500 Reply-To: john.kriz@snet.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "John J. Kriz" Subject: Dead Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just checked my hive (have only one, new hobbyist) and all the bees were dead. Used the Apistan, no signs of AFB. They had plenty of honey (or so I thought) and was feeding sugar syrup, but still dead. No honey left. No cold weather here. Did hey starve? Other causes? What should I look for? In Connecticut. Thanks. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 19:47:37 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Dalby Subject: Re: Sugar syrup feeding in winter MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Peter: I am NOT a newbie; and hence, I have to ask why you do not feed "liquid >sugar", syrup, in the winter? > George Imirie > George, In answer to your question I think other contributors have covered the above question whilst I have been tied up with our English National Honey Show and other beekeeping business. I personally do not use sugar syrup in winter as the bees do not seem to want to take it whichever pattern of feeder is used which wastes time and money. Also feeding late the bees dont always cap and seal the stores properly leading to fermentation and dysentery in our damp English climate. Peter Dalby, Beekeeping in Hertfordshire, just north of London, England ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 16:40:26 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: James P Parkman Subject: request for manuka honey In-Reply-To: <199812042041.PAA21265@mailhost.cas.utk.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I have had a request from a person here in eastern Tennessee USA for manuka honey. He is interested in its proposed medicinal properties. Does anyone on the list know of a source for manuka honey? Regards, Pat Parkman ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 19:20:59 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: edward markus Subject: Re: Beekeeping in Hawaii MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kim, I bothered some folks on Kauai while on vacation. The State extention office exists and they also kindly gave me the names of local beekeepers and names of members of a no lomger current bee keeping club. I would think the same may work for you. Good luck! -----Original Message----- From: kim willenbrink To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Date: Thursday, December 03, 1998 11:12 AM Subject: Beekeeping in Hawaii >Aloha, I am very new to beekeeping. We have just set up our first hive >after removing an unwanted hive from under a porch step. We plan to >offer this service and set up at least 10 hives. It seems that >beekeeping in Hawaii is unique is some ways and I wonder if there is any >written information somewhere to help. Do you know of any or are you >familiar with beekeeping practices in Hawaii? > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 08:44:31 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Norman CotÊ" Subject: Re: Sugar syrup in winter!?!? Comments: To: murray@DENROSA.DEMON.CO.UK Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Please explain to me. What is Fondant and how is it made??? Thanks ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 18:27:59 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Christopher Slade Subject: Re: 1.Hive Insulation 2. Sting desensitisation Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit 1. Insulation works both ways. Do those who add insulation to their hives in winter cover the sunny side as well as the rest? Is the occasional dose of solar heating helpful in allowing bees access to new areas of stores and avoid isolation starvation? I have an apiary on a cherished (organic) but exposed site. I have erected windbreaks of plastic greenhouse shading netting but am undecided whether to do more. Unless convincingly advised otherwise I shall probably drape plastic sacks over the N.E. and W sides and leave the S side with the entrance exposed to the midday sun. This should reduce moisture on the hive bodies and thus reduce wind chill. 2. A lady in my village knows she has a dangerously strong allergy to bees stings and yet is about to start beekeeping. She finds bees fascinating. As a musical person (which I am not) she described to me the notes emitted by a curious bee as compared to a bee about to sting. I think she is mad, but I don't know (m)any people I would describe as entirely sane. If my son shows me how to do it I shall print off a copy of George Imrie's mail to encourage her. Is there anything from these bee sting allergists on the Web? Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 07:42:02 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ruary Rudd Subject: Re: Sugar syrup in winter!?!? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Norman Cot=E9 Date: 05 December 1998 13:44 Subject: Re: Sugar syrup in winter!?!? >Please explain to me. What is Fondant and how is it made??? > It is a soft sugar fudge. Take one part of granulated sugar to 5 parts water, dissolve it and boil = for about 2 minutes until a temperature of 234 degrees Fahrenheit. Take of the heat and cool the vessel ( and syrup) by immersion in a basin= of cold water stirring thoroughly, when the mixture starts whitening decant = it into moulds containing about 3 lbs. The tradition in Ireland was to give the bees a Christmas present of Cand= y on St. Stephen's day ( Boxing Day). Ruary Rudd rrudd@tinet.ie Westgate, Waterville, Co. Kerry ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 00:14:22 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Musashi Subject: Re: Timing of varroa Regarding timing of Varroa, it was noted that a successful commercial beekeeper in the Northeastern United States treats with Apistan for Varroa in February. Here in Central Texas, an experienced beekeeper recommends putting strips in the hives the last week of December, when there is no brood. Egg laying here begins about the first of January. The thought is that if you treat when there is a break in brood production that you will (hopefully) kill all the Varroa mites more easily and quickly because none of them are hiding in capped brood cells. Makes sense to me and I intend to do it. Layne Westover College Station, Texas ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 19:53:31 -0800 Reply-To: pyramid@epix.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pyramid Subject: Re: request for manuka honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit James P Parkman wrote: > > I have had a request from a person here in eastern Tennessee USA for > manuka honey. He is interested in its proposed medicinal properties. Does > anyone on the list know of a source for manuka honey? SummerGlow Apiaries, Hamilton, New Zealand bennett@wave.co.nz www.manukahoney.co.nzrns Burns ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 21:26:07 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Steve Newcomb Subject: SEARCHING FOR DAN BUCH, WILLOW CREEK APIARIES MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am searching for a phone number or e-mail address for subject person or business. He faxed the company that I work for, seeking information on our cabinets for heating honey drums. Any info. would be appreciated. Please reply off of bee-l. Thank you ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 11:23:21 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rimantas Zujus Subject: Re: Sugar syrup in winter!?!? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-4" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ruary Rudd writes >Take one part of granulated sugar to 5 parts water, dissolve it and boil for >about 2 minutes until a temperature of 234 degrees Fahrenheit. 234F corresponds to 112C. A boiling distilled water temperature in normal pressure is 100C. Dissolved salts raises temperature a few degrees C. Does really such thin sugar syrup gives additional 12C or you close your vessel tightly and raise a pressure inside? Some beekeepers here use so called an "ice" but they take ,contrarily, more sugar and less water and boil long time. This way, maybe, they reach 112C (234F). Sincerely Yours Rimantas Zujus Kaunas LITHUANIA e-mail : zujus@isag.lei.lt http://www1.omnitel.net/zu/zu_e.html http://www.lei.lt 55 North, 24 East ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 11:06:29 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Banks Organization: http://www3.sympatico.ca/honey.road Subject: Re: Dead Bees Comments: To: john.kriz@snet.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John, were there any drones in amongst the dead bees. If so, it is possible that the queen might have died off. I read a very good article in last months Bee Cultre about this. If your hive has drones in late fall, expec the worse, as the queen is not producing enough pheremones to indicate to expel the dones. But in you case it is possible the queen might have died. Allen Banks John J. Kriz wrote: > Just checked my hive (have only one, new hobbyist) and all the bees were > dead. Used the Apistan, no signs of AFB. They had plenty of honey (or > so I thought) and was feeding sugar syrup, but still dead. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 16:09:44 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Resistant mites speed of conquest Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello All I was wondering about the possible rate of spread of Apistan/Bayvarol resistant mites in the light of a recent post reporting these mites in South Dakota USA. Would I be correct in saying that the spread of the resistant variety will be considerably faster than that of the original mites?. I say this for the reasons shown below, and would be grateful - as always - if I can be put right if I am in error. (I am only two years at beekeeping). The original mites spread by physically moving into a new area. I am taking England as an example, since it is the only country, apart from my own, with whose beekeeping practices and recent beekeeping history I am somewhat familiar. It has taken just over 6 years for the mite to achieve a presence in most parts of England starting in the South West in April 1992. (Some would argue, that but for migratory beekeeping, the colonisation time would have been far longer, but that is not an issue here). I believe, however, that the resistant mite is in a far better position for spreading its presence. I am assuming that resistance is achieved by the mites' exposure over time, to control chemicals. If this be the case, then resistant mites will eventually appear in thousands of hives dotted throughout the area colonised by the mite. Thus the spread of the resistant mites will be very rapid indeed. If the above is true, England will be colonised by resistant mites in far less than 6 years from the date of the first confirmed outbreak. (In this scenario, migratory beekeeping will not be a major factor, if indeed it be a factor at all). And of course this will occur in all countries where the varroa mite is found, (this is now rapidly translating into 'all countries'). I suppose that the advent of a chemical which operates differently to Apistan and Bayvarol, and to which initially at any rate, the mites will not have resistance, will in the short term improve matters. But what of the long term?. What do the list members think?. Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland e mail cssl@iol.ie Tel + 353 1 289 5269 Fax + 353 1 289 9940 Latitude 53 Degrees 16' North Longitude 6 Degrees 9' West of Greenwich ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 09:42:09 -0600 Reply-To: cspacek@flash.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Curtis Spacek Subject: beemoflage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This may be of interest to people on the list.My latest bee suit was purchased from the local army surplus store.Jungle green pattern camo.Made of rip-stop material,loose comfortable fit,and all under $20.00.The interesting thing about this bee suit is the bee can't see me.When wearing my regular yard garb,jeans and a long sleeved white shirt,by the time I worked through the yard (40 hives) my clothes had numerous stingers and about 20-30 guard bees relentlesly bouncing off my veil even after walking 50 yards from the hives.beeing scented by all the stingers the bees would not let me get in the truck alone. When wearing camo there are no stingers,clingers or followers.the pattern is designed to break up the image and outline of the wearer,if I stand still the bees loose track of me and go back to there hives.The desert pattern works just as well and is a little cooler under the blazing Texas summer sun. Try this and let me know if you have a similar experience.As a side note,how are the moth traps working? reply to cspacek@flash.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 09:16:12 -1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Interlink Subject: Re: Honey Analog - H Ana MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Bee-L readers This message was sent to me probably because I attended the SIAL food show in Paris last month as a participant in the National Honey Board booth. The experience was enlighting. This show is billed as the worlds largest food show. I made contact with at least 40 other honey peddlers from all over the world. I also heard about the huge problem of counterfit honey and the inability to detect the counterfit honey. I previously did not know this was such a huge problem. When I returned home I got a first hand experience with the problem. I went to the all american Kentucky Fried Chicken shop and ordered a biscuit with honey. I was given a package of something called " Honey Sauce" the ingredient statement includued High Fructose Corn Syrup, Suger, corn syrup, malt flavoring and coloring. I pass this information along as a wake up call as to another huge problem plaguing beekeepers in America today. Anyone interested in "Pure Hawaii Honey " from the tropical flowers found in Hawaii? Wishing everyone a Happy holiday season. \ Aloha Walter in Hawaii -----Original Message----- From: DHAMPUR@aol.com To: hihoney@hawaiihoney.com Date: Friday, December 04, 1998 11:40 AM Subject: Honey Analog - H Ana >HAWAIIAN HONEY HOUSE >HAWAII >TEL: 808 964 5401 > >Kind Attn : Walter Patton > >Dear Sir, > >We take this opportunity to introduce ourselves as member concern of the >Dhampur Sugar Mills Ltd which have extensive cane crushing capacities of over >25,000 metric tons/'day spread over five locations in India,Vietnam & Nepal. > >The group company Dhampur Invertos Ltd is involved in making specialty sugars >-both liquid & crystal form & Honey-analogs.We have been supplying these >honey-analogs to various honey processors all over the world especially >Russia,Middle East & Canada for blending with natural honey. >The characteristic of the honey-analog is that it is enzymatically processed >in our automatic plant enroute the same way as bees process it naturally.After >extensive Research & Development, we could develop a product which had same >physical & chemical composition & properties as natural honey.This was >primarily done to meet the growing demand for honey & to make its processing >more cost effective. >Our honey-analog passes all chemical tests for natural honey & generally >processors blend it with natural honey in the ratio of 1:1.We have a huge >plant in India with a capacity of 14,400 T.P.Y. so we can easily cater to >bulk orders. > >We understand that you are processing honey in a big way.Should you be >interested in our product, we would we only too glad to be of service to you. >For any techno-commercial queries,you may contact us at the following numbers >- >Tel : 619-793-7905 >Fax :619-509-7584 >Email:dhampur@aol.com > >We look forward to a mutually fruitful business relationship with your group. > >Thanks for your kind attention. > >Sincerely, >for Dhampur Invertos Ltd > >SARIKA DHAWAN >*************************************************************************** *** >******************** >Our contact details are: > >INDIA OFFICE : > >DHAMPUR INVERTOS LTD,24 SCHOOL LANE,II FLOOR,NEW DELHI-110 001 INDIA >TEL:91 11 3350961/0459 >FAX:91 11 3352591 >E MAIL: sorabh@giasdl01.vsnl.net.in > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 19:06:09 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Harry Goudie Subject: Gloves and Bayvarol MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I notice that the instructions on Bayvarol and Apistan require that the user wears gloves when handling these substances. I also note that many subscribers to this list do not wear gloves when examining their bees. It seems to me that if you use any of these chemicals then the whole hive, frames etc will be contaminated with these substances and you must surely be exposed to them. Can anyone tell me what the symptoms are of Flumethrin or Fluvalinate poisoning are? Has there been any reports of health problems associated with any of these products? Harry ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 22:50:26 -0500 Reply-To: admin@beeworks.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: 1.Hive Insulation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 5 Dec 98, at 18:27, Christopher Slade wrote: > 1. Insulation works both ways. Do those who add insulation to their hives > in winter cover the sunny side as well as the rest? Is the occasional > dose of solar heating helpful in allowing bees access to new areas of > stores and avoid isolation starvation? I have an apiary on a cherished > (organic) but exposed site. I have erected windbreaks of plastic > greenhouse shading netting but am undecided whether to do more. Unless > convincingly advised otherwise I shall probably drape plastic sacks over > the N.E. and W sides and leave the S side with the entrance exposed to the > midday sun. This should reduce moisture on the hive bodies and thus > reduce wind chill. There are many conflicting points for wintering hives, for those who are realy interested there is an FAQ on our web site dealing with Canadian wintering. http://www.beeworks.com But one point from the above posting, stay away from plastic! It doesn't breath and condensation will form on the inside, freeze and melt just at the wrong time. We use roofing felt or tar paper, one wrap is enough to keep out the wet, and on sunny days it will warm the hive interior. ***************************************** The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada. Phone (705)326 7171 Fax (705)325 3461 David Eyre, Owner e-mail http://www.beeworks.com **************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 07:43:49 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Ruary Rudd Subject: OOPS Sugar Syrup MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SORRY I WROTE < Take one part of granulated sugar to 5 parts water, > Of course the real proportions are 1 part water to 5 parts sugar. The rest of the recipe is correct which makes a handy mnemonic 1, 234, 5 Ruary Rudd rrudd@tinet.ie Thinks, I should proof read more carefully ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 12:24:44 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Murray McGregor Subject: Re: Sugar syrup in winter!?!? In-Reply-To: <912934174.2019153.0@uacsc2.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 In article <912934174.2019153.0@uacsc2.albany.edu>, Ruary Rudd writes >From: Norman Cot=E9 >Date: 05 December 1998 13:44 >Subject: Re: Sugar syrup in winter!?!? > > >>Please explain to me. What is Fondant and how is it made??? > >> >It is a soft sugar fudge. > >Take one part of granulated sugar to 5 parts water, dissolve it and boil = >for >about 2 minutes until a temperature of 234 degrees Fahrenheit. >Take of the heat and cool the vessel ( and syrup) by immersion in a basin= > of >cold water stirring thoroughly, when the mixture starts whitening decant = >it >into moulds containing about 3 lbs. > >The tradition in Ireland was to give the bees a Christmas present of Cand= >y >on St. Stephen's day ( Boxing Day). > >Ruary Rudd >rrudd@tinet.ie >Westgate, >Waterville, > Co. Kerry This is not the product we use or advocate. (Nothing wrong with it, just very labour intensive to make yourself and expensive if you buy it ready made.) So far as I am aware this is usually known as 'candy' or 'bee candy' and is, as stated, placed as cakes on top of the cluster, much the same way as fondant. Fondant, at least the type we use, is a mechanically produced white substance containing, in variable proportions according to which quality you buy, Powdered white sugar, glucose syrup, invert sugar syrup, and possibly dry invert sugar, plus it has about a 12 to 16 % water content. It is reasonably soft so can be cut and pressed to shape if blocks do not suit you. It is generally available from bakery supply companies in smallish quantities, where they carry it as a stock line. Bakeries use it as icing for cakes, so it may be sold as fondant icing. There are of course other icings as well, but it is the fondant type you need. They will also usually get you a good deal if you buy a pallet load, and we find it to be about 10% more expensive than white sugar based on dry weight equivalent. In continental Europe there are varieties of this product especially developed for bees which require the expenditure of very little energy on the bees part on inversion and storage, and we are experimenting with a German version this winter. It is also very important to find out about the constituents of the type you buy so ask for a spec. If it contains any ACID derived ingredients DO NOT use it. In the UK it comes in 28lb blocks inside a plastic wrapper, all inside a cardboard box. We cut it into quarters using a new garden spade kept in hot water and bag each piece in an HD polythene bag which is then sealed at the neck. You can cut and bag a tonne using two guys in about an hour. This gives 320 blocks, and colonies should be given 1 to 4 blocks according to their size. We never use more than two at a time as this is sufficient to span even the largest clusters ( we are happy if every seam of bees in the cluster is, at some point, in contact with the open cut on the fondant bag.). When they use it up you just give them more, whatever the state of the weather temperature wise. Obviously, in extreme cold conditions where you need to wrap colonies there are practicality difficulties. Most of the detail on this has already been posted by Allen Dick ( and quite recently too! ) so rather than set it all out again I would refer you to this posting in late October this year which is a summary of private exchanges between us. I hope this makes the nature of the product clearer, but if you have any further questions on this you can respond direct to me if you do not want to put it out on the list. Kind regards to all Murray -- Murray McGregor ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 07:05:11 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: left/right handed sugars and fondant Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello All: I have become interested in the topic of fondant (I think some of my hives are a little light this winter and it is now COLD). Here in Prince Edward Island we are quite limited in the types of feeding materials that are available. For instance, to obtain HFCS is near impossible. But glucose is something that is used commonly at the dairy plant for ice cream. Murray McGregor does not mention what the ingredients are in the commercial fondant blocks that he purchases. Ruary Rudd does not use glucose in his fondant. But when I look up fondant in a search engine and look at several different formulae, I see that many of them use about twenty percent glucose in the sugar portion. When I look at the sugars making up an "average" honey (Hive and the Honeybee) I see that one of the major sugars is dextrose (which is d-glucose) or right handed glucose in the way it will reflect polarized light as I understand it. But of the many sugars which are minor consituents of honey regular glucose is not even listed. So I am wondering how this left handed/right handed stuff affects the bees. They have invertase to break down sucrose into simple sugars. What do they do if the simple sugar is a mirror image of what they normally use? Is glucose good bee feed? regards, Stan ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 22:33:42 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Martin Braunstein Subject: Mr. Jim Paysen - JZs BZs Honey Co. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, I need to contact ASAP Mr. Jim Paysen (JZs BZs Honey Co.) by either fax or e-mail. Do any of you know whether or not Mr. Paysen has at least one of them? Thanks in advance. Martin Braunstein Malka Cabania Apicola e-mail: malka@webnet.com.ar ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 08:40:31 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Elias Gonzalez San juan Subject: Saint Ambrose4s day MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi all. Tomorrow, the 7th of December, it4s the Saint Ambrose4s day, Patron of beekeepers and candlemakers. Best wishes for all beekeepers and candlemakers around the world. Elias Gonzalez. La Palma - Canary Islands. 28 North - 18 West. beepress@iedatos.es --------------- You can see two images of Saint Ambrose in my Web page at: http://www.iedatos.es/user/usr10005/ambrosio.htm ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 14:06:16 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dr Max Watkins Subject: Re: Apistan In-Reply-To: <912679998.208797.0@uacsc2.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 See below: In message <912679998.208797.0@uacsc2.albany.edu>, Computer Software Solutions Ltd writes >Hello All > > >Peter Dalby wrote that Apistan is now licensed for use in the UK. > >Am I correct or otherwise when I say, that Apistan and Bayvarol use >chemicals which are 'near' related, so that mites resistant to one could be >close to being resistant to the other.? Thus the advantage in Apistan >appears to be purely on price. > Not quite. In varroa resistance terms the two products are the same. The advantages of Apistan are that only two, instead of 4 strips are required, which makes it much easier/faster to apply and remove. A European Union Maximum Residue Limit (of effectively zero) has been set for Apistan use in beehives, while Bayvarol relies on a ruling for residues in sheep. That the database for Apistan is well-proven, being registered as a veterinary medicine in more than 40 countries (as opposed to about 4 for Bayvarol). We (and most beekepers who have used both products) believe Apistan to be the superior product. And yes, Bayvarol in the UK is ludicrously priced. You did ask... Max >Sincerely > >Tom Barrett >49 South Park >Foxrock >Dublin 18 >Ireland > >e mail cssl@iol.ie >Tel + 353 1 289 5269 >Fax + 353 1 289 9940 > >Latitude 53 Degrees 16' North >Longitude 6 Degrees 9' West of Greenwich -- Dr Max Watkins Director, Vita (Europe) Limited Basingstoke, Hampshire RG21 7RD, UK Tel 44 (0) 1256 473 177 Fax 44 (0) 1256 473 179 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 14:14:30 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dr Max Watkins Subject: Re: Gloves and Bayvarol In-Reply-To: <912980151.1112713.0@uacsc2.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Hi Harry, If the strips are handled without gloves, some people, after extensive contact with Apistan/Bayvarol may develop a slight itchy rash on the hands. This is a temporary reaction which is not serious but may be bloody annoying. Therefore, wear gloves while handling Apistan, as it says on the label. Best regards, Max In message <912980151.1112713.0@uacsc2.albany.edu>, Harry Goudie writes >I notice that the instructions on Bayvarol and Apistan require that the user >wears gloves when handling these substances. I also note that many >subscribers to this list do not wear gloves when examining their bees. It >seems to me that if you use any of these chemicals then the whole hive, >frames etc will be contaminated with these substances and you must surely >be exposed to them. >Can anyone tell me what the symptoms are of Flumethrin or Fluvalinate >poisoning are? Has there been any reports of health problems associated >with any of these products? >Harry -- Dr Max Watkins Director, Vita (Europe) Limited Basingstoke, Hampshire RG21 7RD, UK Tel 44 (0) 1256 473 177 Fax 44 (0) 1256 473 179 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 14:53:07 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mike Rowbottom Subject: Gloves and Bayvarol-also oxytetracycline In-Reply-To: <912980118.108132.0@uacsc2.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <912980118.108132.0@uacsc2.albany.edu>, Harry Goudie writes >Can anyone tell me what the symptoms are of Flumethrin or Fluvalinate >poisoning are? Has there been any reports of health problems associated >with any of these products? >Harry According to the Bayer literature supplied with the product, each Bayvarol strip contains 3.6 mg of Flumethrin. Thus the total amount of Flumethrin available per treatment of a colony with 4 strips is 14.4 mg. Now some of this is retained by the bees, some by the (dead) varroa mites, some goes into the wax, some remains on the used strips and a very small amount goes into the honey. However even if I ignore these amounts, the dose that a beekeeper could absorb from the total amount of one treatment must be the 14.4 mg value. In reality the amounts absorbed by beekeepers are are likely to be considerably less than this, even for the commercial beekeeper. This gives some likely values of maximum possible absorbed dose. I have a copy of the unofficial list, compiled by the Veterinary Medicines Directorate in the UK, of substances under EU Council Regulation 2377/90. ( This is the EU Directive that is referred to in the UK Statutory Instrument 1997 No. 1729 restricting the substances that can be used to treat bee diseases) . On this list Tau Fluvalinate is listed in Annex 2 as a substance that is not subject to maximum residue limits in honey. ( Incidentally, flumethrin is not listed at all, at least not by that name in the list I have, which was up to date as of 9th June 1998) It would seem that these Pyrethroid derivative substances are not officially perceived as a threat to health?? As a further comparison, Amitraz, sometimes used as a substance for the treatment of varroa, is listed by the EU as a substance that does have maximum residue limits set, and for honey the MRL is provisionally set at 200 parts per billion. Consumption of 20 lbs of honey at this threshold value would involve the consumption of about 2 mg of Amitraz. ( As a further aside relating to the use of Oxytetracyline for the control of Foul Brood, the EU have set Maximum Residue Limits for this substance. There is not a limit set for honey, but the value for milk is 100 ppb and for eggs 200 ppb, both comparable with the Amitraz values quoted above. Has anyone ever established the values obtained in the honey from bee colonies treated with oxytetracyline?) -- Mike Rowbottom HARROGATE North Yorkshire UK ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 11:04:56 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: tomas mozer Subject: Re: Treating old boxes Comments: cc: queenbee@GIL.COM.AU the oct.1998 issue of american bee journal (v.138,#10,p.738-742) has articles on the disinfection of afb-contaminated woodenware and testing efficiency of disinfecting with hot paraffin, by m.del hoyo et al. in argentina, corroborating horacio's posting. ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 10:41:22 -0500 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: Gloves and Bayvarol MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Harry Goudie wrote: > I notice that the instructions on Bayvarol and Apistan require that the user > wears gloves when handling these substances. I also note that many > subscribers to this list do not wear gloves when examining their bees. It > seems to me that if you use any of these chemicals then the whole hive, > frames etc will be contaminated with these substances and you must surely > be exposed to them. > Can anyone tell me what the symptoms are of Flumethrin or Fluvalinate > poisoning are? Has there been any reports of health problems associated > with any of these products? This is an interesting question. The only time I ever tried inserting Apistan with gloves was the first time, or rather at the beginning of the first time. I found it quite impossible to separate the strips or fold the Apistan tabs with gloves. I reasoned that if tiny honey bees could rub up against them continually, I certainly was in no danger by handling them once. I would be most surprised if any health problems have ever been found with Apistan strips handled in this way. But let's see what the list answers here. However, in removing them I always use gloves and a hive tool, mainly because of the honey and beeswax buildup around the tabs sitting on top bars. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 11:17:49 -0500 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: Timing of varroa MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lloyd Spear wrote:>Ted, unless you are in the Upper Peninsula, our winters in Albany, NY are similar to >your own. Much more severe than Maryland. This past year I learned that the most >successful commercial beekeeper in the area puts his strips in during February! This >lets him use fewer strips and lets him get the supers on early. I intend to do the same >this year. Yes, our winters are very similar to yours, but probably with somewhat less snow. The idea of putting in strips in winter is interesting because of freely accessing the mites during the broodless period. I would have thought it would only be practical in warmer climates, however. In February or March here, the cluster cover is quite dense, hiding brace comb and other obstructions. I would think that the colony would have to be open too long in the cold in order to find a good spot to insert the strips properly. On the other hand, February seems to be too late in winter to get the broodless period. Why not do it in December, as I think has been suggested? If one were to wait until February I would think it would be better to wait longer for warmer weather. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 11:30:27 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Edwards Organization: Hayden Bee Lab, USDA-ARS,Tucson, Arizona Subject: Re: beemoflage Comments: To: cspacek@flash.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Curtis Spacek wrote: > This may be of interest to people on the list.My latest bee suit was > purchased from the local army surplus store.Jungle green pattern > camo.Made of rip-stop material,loose comfortable fit,and all under > $20.00.The interesting thing about this bee suit is the bee can't see > me. The ONLY person I ever noticed suggesting this idea of blending in was a Buckeye, Arizona beekeeper who was quoted in a newspaper article. He said that he often wore darker beesuits when working bees by artificial light at night. Sounds reasonable, based on the bee eye on/off method of seeing through separate facets. In other words, less contrast with the background, less bothered bees. ----------------------------------------------------------- John F. Edwards Biological Lab. Technician "Feral Bee Tracker and AHB Identifier" Carl Hayden Bee Research Center 2000 E. Allen Road Tucson, Arizona 85719 Office: 520-670-6380, ext.110 Fax: 520-670-6493 Geog. location: 32.27495 N 110.9402 W Lab webpages: http://198.22.133.109/ http://gears.tucson.ars.ag.gov/home/edwards/index.html http://gears.tucson.ars.ag.gov/home/edwards/jephotos.htm ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 14:34:50 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Apistan during the winter MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Concerning putting strips in during February, Ted writes "On the other hand, February seems to be too late in winter to get the broodless period. Why not do it in December, as I think has been suggested? If one were to wait until February I would think it would be better to wait longer for warmer weather." The thinking is that February is as late as possible to put them in, and still get the supers on about May 1. This particular beekeeper has 60 yards, and 1600 colonies, so just getting to all the yards can take 2 weeks, depending on weather. Then pulling the strips and putting on supers can take another two weeks...and so forth. As Apistan only kills 99% of the mites, putting them on in December lets there be some buildup during May-June that is postponed with a later treatment. Lloyd Email LloydSpear@msn.com Owner, Ross Rounds(tm), the finest in comb honey production. http://www.rossrounds.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 17:47:40 +0000 Reply-To: Chris Leo Chatfield Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Chris Leo Chatfield Subject: Oxylic Acid and Varroa Comments: To: tvf@umich.edu In-Reply-To: <913048817.203437.0@uacsc2.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Hi, Does anyone on the list know of the use of oxylic acid in the treatment of veroa, I believe someone in Italy is doing research into this. Is there a useful url for this topic? Tim JF Cuss UK ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 17:17:14 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Victoria McDonough Subject: NewBee Questions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi All, Being a new beekeeper I do not know what constitutes a strong enough hive to go throughout the winter. (I get the impression from my bee club that this takes experience to know.) Anyway, we had a few very warm days and I went in my hives to add sugar water. I have division board feeders. I noticed in both my hives that the bees were clustered in the center of the top box. I did not move any frames but I could see there were frames of honey on both sides of the cluster. What are they doing in the top box? Aren't they supposed to be in the bottom box now? Should I be moving honey frames to the center of the top box or should I just leave them alone? Also, how many bees should I see flying on a warm day? Is it normal to just see a few of should there be many bees flying on the warm days? Lastly, why don't we heat the hives in the winter -- particularly in the cold areas. It seems one could significantly raise the temperature inside the hive by just having a light bulb in there at a very low overall cost. (Cheaper than replacing the bees.) I have a feeling I am missing something very basic here. My last questions is why can't any type of editable oil be used? I have read postings about Food Grade Mineral Oil -- how about just plain old vegetable oil? Thanks for all the interesting posts. Regards, Vickie Green Harbor, MA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 14:09:43 -0800 Reply-To: robert@jobhaus.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert MacKimmie Subject: Oxylic Acid and Varroa Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 4.2mach v148) Tim JF Cuss UK asks about the use of oxylic acid in the treatment of veroa. >From my photographic background, I can share that oxylic acid dissolves the bones of the living human operator, over time of course, and when used without a proper fume hood or other protection. This is another solution that sounds like nasty desperation. Other's mileage may vary - just my nickel's worth of knowledge. Robert MacKimmie ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 19:27:38 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Christopher Slade Subject: Re: resistant mites Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Tom Barrett raises an interesting point. If resistant mites are not spread just by natural advance and migratory beekeepers but also appears by natural selection independantly given time and selective pressure then it may be that different mechanisms for resistance will appear, for instance by behavioral traits rather than chemical adaptation. What do the scientists think? Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 19:27:36 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Christopher Slade Subject: Sugar candy Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit The recipe Ruary Rudd gives is for candy, not fondant. He appears to have reversed the quantities. The recipe is 1, 234,5. 1 pint of water raised to 234 F with 5 pounds of sugar. Fondant is used by bakers to pruduce the icing on buns. I believe it is made from icing sugar (fine powder), glycerine, and water and possibly egg white. Recipes vary. Talk to your baker. Mine lets me have a honey jar full for 50 pence which I use for feeding mini nucs. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 19:27:40 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Christopher Slade Subject: Re: beemoflage Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit This is an interesting and possibly valuable observation. It goes against the grain of received wisdom which is that bees are tuned in to recognise broken patterns such as patches of flowers. Could it be, however, that the new bee suit doesn't smell of old stings and thus doesn't attract defending bees? Chris Slade