From MAILER-DAEMON Fri Sep 17 12:52:02 1999 Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27222 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:52:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA11030 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:51:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199909171651.MAA11030@listserv.albany.edu> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:51:56 -0400 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8d)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG9901B" To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Content-Length: 195422 Lines: 4533 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:11:27 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Warren Otto Subject: Re: Medium Super Price MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I purchased forty 3/4 supers last April. Most had drawn comb, although there were some with new comb, and some of these supers were new, for $8 CDN each. I will buy the rest of this persons supers and brood chambers this year. Hope this helps. Warren Otto Lorette, Manitoba ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 02:10:50 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Cosman and Whidden Honey Co." Subject: Blueberry pollination Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I would be very interested to learn what beekeepers are charging blueberry growers for pollination services in other areas. In Nova Scotia in 1998 we received between $70 and $75 Canadian per hive. What is the going rate in Maine, Quebec or elsewhere. Tom Cosman ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 10:34:39 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Stefan Stangaciu Comments: To: Apither-L MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello to all of you, I am really happy with your interest related to our future Internet Apitherapy Course! Below you will find the main subjects we'll discuss in this course. Any other proposal will be studied carefully, so please feel free to send me any of your opinions, as soon as possible, before we will really start the course. We can later modify its program, but let's start from the very beginning with a good one! Kind regards, Stefan Stangaciu, MD, LAcup. (Apimondia, Romania) apither@gmb.ro www.sci.fi/~apither www.gmb.ro/personal/apither.htm OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Hello dear future Internet apitherapy students! I am glad to send you my first common message to all of you. In our following intensive apitherapy course we will have over 90 (!) lessons so please be prepared, with great interior joy, with open mind to receive all this treasure called APITHERAPY! We will discuss all questions you will have at the end of each level, before you will take a well deserved vacation . At the end of the third level, you will pass through a theoretical examination. I ll send you about 100 short questions, related to the past lessons, and I ll wait your answers in maximum 24 hours! You are allowed, of course, to have a look in your notes If everything will be OK after this examination ("OK" means that you need to send me GOOD and VERY GOOD ANSWERS), you will receive a Certificate of Completion . This certificate will show that you have a strong theoretical base in apitherapy. For the practical aspects of apitherapy (especially BVT), you will need to come also to our future hands-on , practical workshops, done in cooperation with AAS (American Apitherapy Society) and/or UKAS (UK Apitherapy Society) or later, for German speaking students, with the German Apitherapy Society. Also, we will discuss in detail all legal aspects related to apitherapy, at the end of the third level. It is good to know that there are MANY ways to practice apitherapy, in a legal way, fully accepted by any government. Later on this Now, let me show you the content list with the courses ( lessons ) I want to send you. Any other proposal from you will be taken into consideration, so please send me as soon as possible your opinions about this. LEVEL 1: 1. What is apitherapy? 2. History of apitherapy. 3. Importance of bee products for a bee colony. 4. Importance of bee products for humans and animals. 5. Pollen origin and types. 6. Bee Bread origin and types. 7. Honey origin and types. 8. Honeydew Honey origin and types. 9. Propolis origin and types. 10. Beeswax origin and types. 11. Royal Jelly origin and types. 12. Apilarnil origin. 13. Pollen characteristics (physico-chemical and palatable). 14. Bee Venom characteristics. 15. Honey characteristics. 16. Honeydew Honey characteristics. 17. Propolis characteristics. 18. Beeswax characteristics. 19. Royal Jelly characteristics. 20. Apilarnil characteristics. 21. Pollen composition. 22. Bee Bread composition. 23. Bee Venom composition. 24. Honey composition. 25. Honeydew Honey composition. 26. Beeswax composition. 27. Propolis composition. 28. Royal Jelly composition. 29. Apilarnil composition. 30. General overview on the above subjects. 31. Questions, answers, comments, proposals. VACATION. Holidays. Freedom Application for the second level. LEVEL 2: 1. Introduction in bee products properties - generalities. 2. Pollen pharmacological properties, effects, actions. 3. Bee Bread pharmacological properties, effects, actions. 4. Bee Venom pharmacological properties, effects, actions. 5. Honey pharmacological properties, effects, actions. 6. Honeydew Honey pharmacological properties, effects, actions. 7. Propolis pharmacological properties, effects, actions. 8. Beeswax pharmacological properties, effects, actions. 9. Royal Jelly pharmacological properties, effects, actions. 10. Apilarnil pharmacological properties, effects, actions. 11. Introduction in bee products indications generalities. 12. Pollen indications. 13. Bee Bread indications. 14. Bee Venom indications. 15. Honey indications. 16. Honeydew Honey indications. 17. Propolis indications. 18. Beeswax indications. 19. Royal Jelly indications. 20. Apilarnil indications. 21. Bee products counter-indications and limits a general overview. 22. Pollen counter-indications and limits. 23. Bee Bread counter-indications and limits. 24. Bee Venom counter-indications and limits. 25. Honey and Honeydew Honey counter-indications and limits. 26. Propolis counter-indications and limits. 27. Beeswax counter-indications and limits. 28. Royal Jelly counter-indications and limits. 29. Apilarnil counter-indications and limits. 30. Questions, answers, comments, proposals. VACATION. Freedom Projects Application for the third level. LEVEL 3: 1. Administration (posology) of bee products a general overview. 2. Pollen administration. 3. Bee Bread administration. 4. Bee Venom administration and techniques. 5. Honey and Honeydew Honey administrations. 6. Propolis administration. 7. Beeswax administration. 8. Royal Jelly administration. 9. Apilarnil administration. 10. Preparations and Products a general overview. 11. Pollen preparations ( home-made ). 12. Bee Bread preparations. 13. Bee Venom preparations. 14. Honey and Honeydew Honey preparations. 15. Propolis preparations. 16. Beeswax preparations. 17. Royal Jelly preparations. 18. Apilarnil preparations. 19. Commercial Products - a general overview. 20. Pollen and Bee Bread based products. 21. Bee Venom products. 22. Honey based products. 23. Propolis based products. 24. Beeswax based products. 25. Apilarnil based products. 26. Marketing, economical aspects related to apitherapy. 27. Mass media presentations rules, principles, tips . 28. Cooperation with your local doctors and authorities. 29. Legal aspects of apitherapy. 30. Questions, answers, comments, proposals. 31. 100 questions test. Vacation and Projects Waiting for the certificates OK Satisfied with the above course program? Hopefully YES!!! What I can promise you is that we will have a wonderful course and we shall be for the rest of our lives very, very good friends! Stefan Stangaciu, MD, LAcup. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 09:29:41 -0500 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: Apitherapy course MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit After reviewing the curriculum and guidelines for this course, I wonder if it wouldn't be more appropriate for the organizer to establish a separate email list for it. With 90 sessions, exams, etc., it seems to me that it would take a lot of message space on this list - realizing that not everyone would be interested in following the course. I do think that an effort such as this would be very worthwhile and an excellent use of the capabilities of the internet. This particular list maybe wouldn't be the best place, however, since it has always been more devoted to varied items of interest rather than following one subject in-depth. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 08:22:21 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Kerry Clark Subject: Apitherapy course proposal and web site MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT The Apitherapy discussion group Apither-List has been actively discussing the possibility of an internet Apitherapy training course (or courses at a range of levels). Expressions of interest can be sent to: Dr. Stefan Stangaciu and/or Durk Ellison Also, the Apitherapy web site has been recently updated. http://www.sci.fi/~apither Mr. Kerry Clark, Apiculture Specialist B.C. Ministry of Agriculture and Food 1201 103 Street Dawson Creek, B.C. V1G 4J2 Tel. 250 784 2231 Fax. 250 784 2299 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 11:38:24 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Roger Flanders Subject: Trailering Hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The January, 1999, issue of Bee Culture has an interesting article by Larry Goltz about permanently mounting hives on short (10-16 ft.) flatbed trailers. Among the several advantages he cites is the potential income from pollination contracts with small growers who only require one or two trailer loads, each carrying 12-14 hives. Has anyone in the group tried permanently mounting hives on smaller trailers? What advantages or disadvantages did you encounter? And, possibly most importantly, do you believe there is any real market for pollination contracts utilizing such small numbers of hives? (I'm located in eastern Nebraska. I assume my "overnight towing radius" would be 600 miles at best.) Thanks. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 18:59:53 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jorn Johanesson Subject: Sv: Re: Sv: Mellifera Mellifera Pictures MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: Steve Davis Til: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Dato: 8. januar 1999 05:06 Emne: Re: Sv: Mellifera Mellifera Pictures >I am glad there are efforts to keep the Black Bee as pure as possible We have a national law stating that the island Laesoe only shall contain = apis melifera melifera. This is aproved by the EU-Court in Bruxelles = this Year. I have a jpeg picture of a queen with her staf for those who would be = interested 191KB it is that big becouse I want to keep as must as possible. Then You can = play with it. Url direct to picture is www.apimo.dk/laso.jpg which I think will = initiate a download or www.apimo.dk/laesoebee.htm which will bring up a thumpnail picture so = that you can decide if it is worth downloading. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 22:09:19 -0800 Reply-To: gclewis@penn.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Gary C. Lewis" Subject: Nukes? Size to build. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Bee Folks, Could someone please direct me to a source for the proper dimensions for building a "nuke". I thought I would try building a few during this winter. Thank You for Your time. Gary C. Lewis Duke Center, Pa. USA. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 14:06:36 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bruce Thompson Subject: Re: Blueberry pollination Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit DEAR TOM, I AM NOT SURE HOW MUCH THAT IS IN US MONEY BUT I GET BETWEEN 35 AND 45 AMERICAN PER HIVE. BRUCE THOMPSON BTHOM60041@AOL.COM ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 22:36:48 -0600 Reply-To: boby@lakecountry.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Young Subject: carniolans in Texas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am going to add a few more hives this year (package bees) and I was wondering if any of my fellow Texans have experience with Carniolans. I have heard they are a northern bee; but I was thinking if they have an early spring buildup it would really help in the east texas area. I understand they are gentle and do not readily rob; I really had a lot of trouble last year with the drought inducing my italian "girls " into this destructive behavior. The old time beekeepers in my area say you can either make honey or make bees ( which means package bees will generally not make surplus honey the first year and likewise with splits) due to the relatively short nectar flow. I have read the Carniolans are slow in comb buildup and this might be a problem due to the above statement. I would like to hear comments, good or bad about my possible purchase. Thanks, Bob Young Lindale,TX ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 22:07:24 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: Re: Blueberry pollination Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello Tom: >I would be very interested to learn what beekeepers are charging blueberry >growers for pollination services in other areas. In Nova Scotia in 1998 we >received between $70 and $75 Canadian per hive. What is the going rate in >Maine, Quebec or elsewhere. In Prince Edward Island I charged $65 last year, and have raised it to $70 for this year. Regards, Stan ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 09:20:48 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: ron taylor Subject: Re: Trailering Hives MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In South carolina many of our small hobby beekepers have started to use trailors to put 4 to 10 hives on. These trailors are purchased from a company Northern Hydraulics between $159 to $169. The size is 40" by 48" An open bed can be mnade with treated 2X4s and there is no worry about weather damage. A five foot length bed will hold 3 hives. The hives can be mounted with truss brackets. The only thing needed is a strap to hold the tops dpwn when moving. The advantage is that the bees can be more easily placed in fields. They can can also be easliy moved with the farmers wants to use a spray. The bess can be brought back. There is may be a little drift but painting and marking can reduce drifting. We have a Beekeeper (Kurt Herbst) who operates Circle B ranch which had trailors designed for pollination . It will hold 20 or more hives. each hive sets between clips. a long rod secures the bottom board to the clips. He also has a water system so that the bees have water available, regardless of where they are. It is easier to move one trailor than 10 hives if you do not have special equipment. There is a new bee guard easy bee rig made in Isreal. This allows a beekeeprs to pull dopwn an tray to check brood boxes. If this device could hold 4 hives on each side it could fit on a trailor base, The beekeeprs could check 4 hives at a time without lifting the supers off. This rig could be designed to fit trailers rather than using cranes as their video shows.Ron Taylor Colleton County Beekeepers, Cottageville South Carolina and President of South Carolina Beekeepers.. Roger Flanders wrote: > The January, 1999, issue of Bee Culture has an interesting article by > Larry > Goltz about permanently mounting hives on short (10-16 ft.) flatbed > trailers. Among the several advantages he cites is the potential > income > from pollination contracts with small growers who only require one or > two > trailer loads, each carrying 12-14 hives. Has anyone in the group > tried > permanently mounting hives on smaller trailers? What advantages or > disadvantages did you encounter? And, possibly most importantly, do > you > believe there is any real market for pollination contracts utilizing > such > small numbers of hives? (I'm located in eastern Nebraska. I assume > my > "overnight towing radius" would be 600 miles at best.) Thanks. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 10:48:56 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Dr. Gerald L Barbor" Subject: Re: Trailering Hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Roger, I have been using a trailer with hives permanently attached for over 10 years for pollination. I used a 4' X 8' utility trailer with a plywood bed and I screwed six bottom boards directly to the bed (tried angle brackets at first, but they didn't worh as well). If starting over I would use pressure treated - possibly 5/4 decking instead of the plywood as the plywood is looking pretty bad now. Most of my pollination locations are about the right size for a six colony "plant", and as has been mentioned before, they are easy to move for spraying. I move them only about 20 miles from home to the pollination site, but I frequently don't even close them when I'm moving at night. I usually have more that one high, so I staple the boxes together and use a strap or rope to keep the lids on. The only problem I have ever had was when I didn't think to block the back end, and the rear hives were doing much better that the front - the trailer tipped backward spreading supers and bees all over the place. I always block front and back now. Its a great way to operate with a one man operation without loading equipment. Jerry in PA >On Fri, 8 Jan 1999 11:38:24 -0600 Roger Flanders writes: >The January, 1999, issue of Bee Culture has an interesting article by Larry Goltz about permanently mounting hives on >short (10-16 ft.) flatbed trailers. Among the several advantages he cites is the potential income from pollination >contracts with small growers who only require one or two trailer loads, each carrying 12-14 hives. Has anyone in the >group tried >permanently mounting hives on smaller trailers? What advantages or disadvantages did you encounter? And, possibly >most importantly, do you believe there is any real market for pollination contracts utilizing such small numbers of hives? >(I'm located in eastern Nebraska. I assume my "overnight towing radius" would be 600 miles at best.) Thanks. ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 10:45:47 -0800 Reply-To: beeman@NOSPAMkingston.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Kent Stienburg Subject: Re: carniolans in Texas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob Young wrote: > > I am going to add a few more hives this year (package bees) and I was > wondering if any of my fellow Texans > have experience with Carniolans. I have heard they are a northern bee; but > I was thinking if they have an early > spring buildup it would really help in the east texas area. I understand > they are gentle and do not readily rob; > I really had a lot of trouble last year with the drought inducing my > italian "girls " into this destructive behavior. > The old time beekeepers in my area say you can either make honey or make > bees ( which means package bees > will generally not make surplus honey the first year and likewise with > splits) due to the relatively short nectar flow. > I have read the Carniolans are slow in comb buildup and this might be a > problem due to the above statement. > I would like to hear comments, good or bad about my possible purchase. > Thanks, > Bob Young > Lindale,TX Hello Bob, Wish I was in Texas right now. The snow is piling up here. I have kept Carnolians for awhile now. I purchase them from a beekeeper who goes to Australia to pick the queens up. He works there for two months and then brings back breeder queens. I have also heard the statement that they are northern bees only. But there are few places hotter then Australia. Its true they are fairly gentle, I have 3 carnolian hives 30' from my driveway and I mow the lawn right by the hives. Not 1 sting or threat of sting. They do build up very rapidly in the spring so your swarm control has to be in place. I haven't noticed them being much slower at comb building then Buckfast or Italian. They also are not as prone to brood diseases as other strains. Here in Canada we have found that they have some resistance to tracheal mites. They don't readily rob as easy as the italians but they still will if pushed to extremes. I make splits every year and they still make honey. The queen can be hard to find because of her dark colour. I hope this helps. Feel free to write back if you have more questions -- Kent Stienburg Remove NOSPAM to reply. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 11:28:23 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: T'N'T Apiaries Subject: Re: Nukes Size & Other Open-ended Questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gary wrote: Most of us appreciate "brevity"on this list, but I can't count the times I have read a post like this. Sorry Gary, but you and others need to fill in a few blanks if you want some solid information back. Without a few details, its like telling the List you want help to buy a "Car". Period. We have no idea wheither you need, can afford, etc., a Volkswagon Beetle or a Cadillac. Unfortunately someone will leap to a lot of conclusions and tell you. There are times that I know the responding post isn't the best idea for this region of the world or a certain style of beekeeping, but because I had such limited information from first post I won't take the time to comment. Others tell me their the same. In your case Gary, maybe you don't realize there is no single "nuke" style perse. The term is used to discribe any manner of units, which are used for Queen rearing, overwintering, restocking, transportation, etc. Our operation for example has three, four, five and six standard frame Nucs. We also have double fours and two sizes of Baby Nucs. ( I don't recommend having all or even most of these, but since we do, they each have their place and time for use.) I can think of at least a dozen other types as well. What do you plan to use them for (single or multipurpose) and in what climate do you operate in? It is great you are attempting to keep your equipment standardized and for trying to get this job out of the way before the season starts. David Tharle Northern Alberta, Canada ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 13:02:54 PST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ernest Gregoire Subject: Please, Please PLEASE, " QUOTES" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hello Gang, I know that the list here is a bit slow, so perhaps this is a good time to request that EVERY ONE, on the list check their E-mail programs and set the automatic quote to (OFF). Excessive quoting is a big problem to those who pay for internet service by the byte. It increases down load time considerably . I subscribe to more than one list at various times of year, some lists produce over 100 e-mails daily. When some one answers a posted message, they already know what they said, so do the rest of us, because we have also read it. It is also easy enough to pick up the thread as it develops, so please shut off your auto-quotes and don't do it manually either. A simple one or two line quote will usually do the tirck. When answering multiple questions, the same thing applies. Use just enough of the orriginal question to get the gist of what was said, and no more. Quoting entire messages is very bad net-iquette. de AA1IK, Ernie Gregoire R.R. 1, Box 221, South Rd. Canaan, NH. 03741 USA 43.6170 N, X 72.0225 W E-mail address: gregoire@endor.com ------------------------------------- 01/09/99 13:02:54 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 10:16:46 -0700 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Trailering Hives In-Reply-To: <16062182804167@systronix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT >The January, 1999, issue of Bee Culture has an interesting article by > Larry Goltz about permanently mounting hives on >short (10-16 ft.) > flatbed trailers. ... Has anyone in the >group tried... I've seen an entire outfit mounted on decks with legs that a trailer could slide underneath. Hydraulics on the trailer then raised the deck and the legs were swung up out of the way and the deck settled onto the trailer for moving. 32 hives were on each deck. I also saw an outfit in Northern Alberta on trailers to help protect against bears. Neither outfit still uses trailers to my knowledge. One thing to watch in pollination is that, on trailers, the grower or one of his helpers may find it easy to hook on and move the trailer in daytime to suit his own purposes, losing all your flying bees, unless the trailer is disabled -- or the grower educated. Wind is also more of a problem at trailer height as is managing the hives. Allen -- Buy, sell, trade, get a job, hire help, announce a meeting, advertise a business or publication... For free *beekeeping related* classified ads, visit http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/BeeAds/ often. These ads work fast! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 06:50:51 +0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Joel F. Magsaysay" Subject: Trailering Beehives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We have been trailering beehives since 1979. Our standard model is made of an "I" beam chassis and 3/4 inch angular bars. It holds 10 colonies. We "M" lock the hives on for travelling. For short distances, we use masking tape on the entrances - we use ventilated lids. We use travelling screens for long distances. Axles are center mounted, so one person can maneuver and position a trailerload. We have had great success with them. Moving is a breeze. Now that we have hundreds of colonies, the problem is mass producing the trailers. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 20:08:47 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Christopher Slade Subject: Re: Nucs: size to build Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Ken Hoare has mailed me observing that I have been quiet on the net lately. I am not certain whether this was complaint or congratulation. Whichever it was I shall remedy it at once. First decide the purpose of the nuc. A mini nuc for queen mating purposes would be a completely different size to a standard nucleus used for swarm control, increase and a host of other purposes. Assuming you wish to build standard nucs build them around your standard brood frames having proper regard for bee space. My nucs take 4 frames - 5 would be better- and have top bee way, crown board feeders, very deep roofs to reduce wind chill, an entrance hole the diameter of my finger with a nail stuck in to keep mice out. They are made from three eights ply glued and pinned. To encourage you with your project I shall quote from one of my favourite bee authors, Wedmore. "Almost every emergency of management can be met forthwith by putting something into or taking something out of a nucleus, while nuclei themselves seldom present emergencies." Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 20:08:48 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Christopher Slade Subject: Re: Apitherapy course Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit We don't hear much of apitherapy in the UK. Am I right in my guess that it is more popular in countries where health care is not free at the point of consumption? I have never heard of Apilarnil. What is it? Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 13:43:52 -0600 Reply-To: highplains@mail.midmo.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Terry B Reynolds Organization: High Plains Subject: COMB BUILDING MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I purchased my first three hives last July. I read the recent post of supplying each hive with three medium supers for honey. After ordering the hive bodies, frames and foundation, I have begun to ponder.....will it be over-burdensome for the bees to have to build all new comb prior to honey making? i.e., will I still get a good honey harvest? Are there any special steps I need to take in this matter? Thanks for all your information on the list. Patty in Central Missouri first year, three hives highplains@midmo.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 09:37:49 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Stefan Stangaciu Subject: Apitherapy course MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: Christopher Slade To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Date: Sonntag, 10. Januar 1999 02:01 Subject: Re: Apitherapy course We don't hear much of apitherapy in the UK. Am I right in my guess that it is more popular in countries where health care is not free at the point of consumption? I have never heard of Apilarnil. What is it? Chris Slade Hello dear Chris, I noticed that you are one of the experts in beekeeping from this list so I'm very glad about your interest in apitherapy. Ideally EACH beekeeper should have a very good knowledge related to the healing properties of beehive products, not only the experts. Also, I think it's important, especially for the beekeepers, to know how to make various preparations based on beehive products and/or herbs/aromatic oils etc., etc. It is not so complicate to make a tincture, an ointment or a mixture for your own health. The beehive is not only a source of energy (see mainly honey), but also the most powerful Nature's Pharmacy. This "pharmacy" is directly under your wise and friendly control (in most of the cases...), so why shouldn't you be also a kind of "api-pharmacist", at least for your family? Apitherapy is a natural method developed mainly, in relative poor countries, but now even developed countries like Germany, Japan, France, Canada, included UK, are making great efforts to gather as many information as possible on it. In my position of Coordinator of Apimondia's Apitherapy Information Department, I am quite lucky to receive good and stronger day by day "signals" from all over the world. So, apitherapy is growing, is coming to all of us as a wonderful hope and certainty for a better and healthier life. Let's receive it as it deserves: with open mind and soul, with curiosity and respect! "Apilarnil" is a Romanian first made extract from drone larvae having multiple beneficial properties. It's not only an excellent nutrients source but also a much better alternative of "Viagra". I call apilarnil also "bio-viagra". Anybody interested out there in more details? :-)) You may get more info on "Apilarnil" from our "Apitherapy Reference Data Base": www.sci.fi/~apither Friendly yours, Stefan Stangaciu, MD, LAcup. Constanta, Romania. PS In UK there is a young and powerful apitherapy society, directly under your... fingertips. Their address is: http://freespace.virgin.net/peter.pebadale/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 02:46:22 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ken Hoare Subject: Africanised bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What influence does climate have upon the spread of the Africanised honey bee? Is it possible for colonies to migrate to the northern states of America, or would the winters control its survival? As importantly for us in the UK, an irresponsible beekeeper returning from holiday with a queen or two in his pocket, unknowingly Africanised, would the colony survive our climate? Ken Hoare bees@kenlia.enta.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 13:40:57 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Dalby Subject: Re: Apitherapy course MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: Christopher Slade To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Date: 10 January 1999 01:22 Subject: Re: Apitherapy course >We don't hear much of apitherapy in the UK. > There is a United Kingdom Apitherapy Soceity(UKAS) which has been around for a couple of years. At present this is a small but growing group in the UK. The joint secrataries are Barbara Dalby & Sue Claydon E-mail: peter.pebadale@virgin.net The UKAS now is on line with its own pages and membership information on Pebadale apiaries site which went on line last week. You can find the site on http://freespace.virgin.net/peter.pebadale Peter Dalby ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 07:46:22 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Posting help MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I got the following from the Due South news group. I found I was in violation in a couple of areas- line length and posting in html- which I have corrected. It is a good list. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME 1. Put spaces between your comments and quoted text. Please add at least one blank line between your comments and whatever comments you're responding to. I've seen a bunch of postings here recently that have two or three lines of original text nearly buried in 20 lines or so of the original posting. 2. Trim down the original posting so that you include only the part you're responding to. I don't know about other people, but if I see more than one or two screens of quoted text, I don't keep going to find out where the new stuff is. If your newsreader options are set to automatically attach the entire previous posting at the end, please change that setting or trim down the text after it's added. We want to be able to see what *your* comments are! 3. Keep signature files short. About 4-5 lines is the generally accepted length. Longer ones are especially confusing if you only have a couple of lines of actual comments above them. Your comments get outweighed by nonessential text. Again, it makes it harder for us to enjoy your thoughts about DS! 4. Let us know who you are! Some of the no-line-space and big- sig-file problems lately have been exacerbated by people not signing their postings. Putting your name at the bottom of your comments (with, of course, blank lines above and below) provides another visual clue that we've reached the end of your comments and everything afterward is a sig file. 5. Keep each line to 75 characters or less. Although a number of people these days are using Web browsers for Usenet, most of us still use dedicated newsreaders that can't go more than 80 characters wide. So set your window to no more than that and leave a bit of a margin at the righthand side. (FYI, this posting contains lines of about 65 characters in length.) 6. Turn off HTML and MIME encoding. With the increasing use of Web browsers and Outlook Express on Usenet, some of you are generating messages that to the vast majority of us, look like random letters buried in a mass of garbage characters. I've heard from users of both those types of programs that this encoding can be turned off, so please make sure it is. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 14:38:32 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ines Kinchen Subject: apitherapy books? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Are there any recommendable books on apitherapy (in the USA) I am also looking on good books on how to use propolis. Ines ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 12:27:45 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tim Sterrett Subject: Re: Comb-Building MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Patty wrote: > will it be over-burdensome for the bees to have > to build all new comb prior to honey making? i.e., will I still get a > good honey harvest? > Are there any special steps I need to take in this matter? > Bees are good at comb-building; they do it for a living. You might want to try this: Add the first honey super just before it is needed. Where I live that is mid-April, at apple blossom time. Too early is better than too late. Then add subsequent supers as the previous ones approach being fully drawn out from foundation into comb. Bees will ask for additional supers by laying down narrow lines of new, white wax on the top edges of the frames. Put the wax foundation into the frames just before you put the supers on the bees. This keeps the foundation from warping. Warped foundation makes uneven comb. (Plastic foundation does not warp.) Honey storage by the bees depends on the population of the colony and the supply of nectar. If you treat your bees well and they have a successful spring, they will probably swarm. Swarming is a sign of a healthy and successful colony. Preventing bees from swarming is the subject for another book's worth of messages! Tim -- Tim Sterrett sterrett@voicenet.com (southeastern) Pennsylvania, USA 40.0 N 75.5 W ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 10:34:10 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Valentine Subject: Permanently Mounted Hives on Trailers $$$$$ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hello Bee Friends, Seems to me that Permanently Mounted Hives on Trailers certainly would be easier. How much time is it really saving verses the "THE COST" of the trailers. If your equipment (hives) are in good condition and properly stapled, it should only take a few minutes to off load or load a low trailer with a ramp and hand truck. Seems to me it would be a one man operation. Depending on the state laws, you would have to register each trailer $$ and pay taxes $$ on these trailers too. For me it doesn't sound like good business sense $$. If you had back problems or other health issues it maybe a good idea. You'll still have to deal with the honey supers at some point in time. John Connecticut ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 18:02:46 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: "Spent" Brewer's Yeast Comments: To: flanders@PROBE.NET In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi All/Roger Have been away for a while and am catching up on posts. In response to this question from Roger: > small 5 gallon (US) batches. Many home brewers "rack" (siphon) the > fermenting liquid out of the primary (initial) fermentation container into > a secondary fermenting container in order to improve the clarity of the > brew. This leaves behind a considerable amount of "spent yeast" that has > settled to the bottom of the primary container -- anywhere from a 1/2 inch > to 1+ inch thick paste. The reason this yeast is called spent is it has run out of fats that it cannot produce in the absence of oxygen - I suspect these fast are good for bees, hence if it were to be used for food it would be good to place the yeast in a bucket, aerate it and give it a little sugar to reinvigorate it before killing it and feeding it to the ladies. > but now I'm wondering if I shouldn't try to dry it and feed it to my bees > as a pollen substitute to stimulate early spring build-up? (Hobbyist > beekeepers who don't home-brew could easily find home brewing enthusiasts > through beer-making supply stores, and one pound of honey could be traded > for a lot of spent yeast...) I, too, hate spending money unnecessarily, and > like the idea of utilizing a "waste" product, if there's some benefit. (A) > Would this work? (B) Would there be any benefit in mixing the dried yeast > with sugar and Crisco to form feeding patties? I am not very knowledgable about this but can say that I put some yeast sediment that was left over from one of the University Beer brewing practicals into one of my hives, after heating it very gently to approximately 75C and the bees did not die or abscond or terminate brood production. In fact all I could tell was that the stuff was not there a week later. I suspect mixing with crisco may make it more difficult to digest for the bees. My advice would be to heat the yeast, but not to a high temperature - just enought to kill it, and try and avoid ascospore formation (undigestable) and then dry it and feed it to the bees as such. It may be worth checking the pH just in case the yeast was contaminated with Lactic acid producing bacteria as this can make the sediment go down to 2.8 which may damage the bees - don't know that for sure though. Interesting idea to use the waste! Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis 6139 South Africa Time = Honey ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 18:10:48 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: Sperm and eggs and queens and sneaker workers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi All Enjoyed browsing though the posts on bee egg fertilisation. It was mentioned drone eggs are not fertilised, and that a valve of some sort may play a part in this. My geuss here is that at some point before the egg passes the point where fertilisation is possible it contacts some hormone which causes the egg to become temporarily impermiable by making it 'pretend' to be fertilized. Eggs normally undergo a subtle chemical change after fertilization that makes it difficult for the enzymes in the apex of sperm cells to digest their way to the nucleus and affect fertilisation. I know Moritz et al showed that it is possible for multiple sperm fusions with a single egg cell as well as mitochondrial DNA from DRONES was found in fertilized eggs, and this was DNA of different drones in the same egg - something to make anybody who believes the whole mitochondrial DNA is only passed on through the maternal line myth very worried. So my geuss would be that it is perfectly possible for workers to fertilise eggs - by accident - and on purpose. If we assume we have a sneaky non capensis laying worker laying an unfertilised egg in the bottom of a cell in which a queen has just layed an egg, it is perfectly possible that a few surpluss sperm cells that may have been stuck to the surface of that egg may come in contact with the unfertilized 'drone' egg the worker is laying. If the egg is not fertilized it will be cleared, if it is it will stay. Interesting concept. Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis 6139 South Africa Time = Honey ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 15:57:32 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Ralph W. Harrison" Subject: Re: apitherapy books? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit " Bee In Balance" by Amber Rose $34.95 "A guide to healing the whole person with honeybees, oriental medicine and common sense" ISBN: 0-9641810-0-2 Regards, Ralph Harrison Western CT Beekeepers Association Milford, CT USA lat 39 N ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 17:45:59 -0500 Reply-To: Bee-L@cnsibm.albany.edu Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Anti-Varroa Floors. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Now Varroa has finally moved into our area I am taking more interest in the various treatments available. Having just read Tom Sandfords Dec Apis, in which he talks of Anti- Varroa floors, it raises a number of questions which I would like to discuss. 1. Has anyone got experience of any anti-varroa floor? 2. With the open bottom approach of these floors, wouldn't there be easier access for ants? 3. What could be spread under hive stands to discourage ants? I believe there was a post about 'Comet' bath cleaner? 4. How about wintering hives with open floors? For those unfamiliar with Anti-Varroa floors, the thinking is that there is a natural drop of varroa off the bees. With a solid floor they can crawl back up to reinfest the bee, whereas the mesh or open floor allows the varroa to drop out of the hive. Please reply to the list, I would like some discussion as I believe these floors have merit. ***************************************** The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada. Phone (705)326 7171 Fax (705)325 3461 David Eyre, Owner e-mail http://www.beeworks.com This months special:-Queen Rearing Equipment. **************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 01:59:28 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Durk Ellison Subject: Re: apitherapy books? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: Ines Kinchen To: Sent: 10 January 1999 21:38 Subject: apitherapy books? >Are there any recommendable books on apitherapy (in the USA) >I am also looking on good books on how to use propolis. > > >Ines Please see the Apitherapy Reference Data Base WEB site at http://www.sci.fi/~apither for Apitherapy books from all over the world including the US and where to get them. Kind regards Durk Ellison Vantaa, Finland BeeNet : 240:346/300.8 e-mail : Durk.Ellison@beenet.pp.sci.fi Packet : oh2zas @ oh2rbt.#hki.fin.eu ICQ# : 1954595 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 19:30:47 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "(Thomas) (Cornick)" Subject: Re: Anti-Varroa Floors. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I have been tinkering and building supers today and am considering using the scraps for an anti varroa floor of my own. On a regular bottom board I plan to smear with petroleum jelly I will place a piece of hardware cloth with 1/8" openings in the mesh. On top of the mesh will go a frame of 3/4" stock on three sides so that the entrance to the hivebody is above the mesh and debris and mites are free to fall to the grease. Another piece of 3/4" stock will seal up the original opening in the bottom board. I am also considering wiping the hardware cloth with mineral oil and if this shows results I will arrange the next ones with the hardware cloth let into a groove so that it can be slid out like a drawer to recoat. I should imagine an arrangement like this will confound hive beetles as well. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 17:25:22 -0800 Reply-To: ryarnell@orednet.org Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard Yarnell Subject: Re: "Spent" Brewer's Yeast Are you sure about this, Garth. If one replenishes the sugar, and provided the alcohol content is not too high, yeast will revive and continue the fermentation. I am under the impression that the spent yeast is the carnage after the food source runs low - the sugar, or the pollution gets to great - the alcohol. Is the heating process to rid the slurry of alcohol, or is it needed to kill a pathogen which is a danger to the bees? >> fermenting liquid out of the primary (initial) fermentation container into >> a secondary fermenting container in order to improve the clarity of the >> brew. This leaves behind a considerable amount of "spent yeast" that has >> settled to the bottom of the primary container -- anywhere from a 1/2 inch >> to 1+ inch thick paste. >The reason this yeast is called spent is it has run out of fats that >it cannot produce in the absence of oxygen - I suspect these fast are >good for bees, hence if it were to be used for food it would be good >to place the yeast in a bucket, aerate it and give it a little sugar >to reinvigorate it before killing it and feeding it to the ladies. -- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 18:34:59 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dave Malachy Subject: Re: Dadant Candles? In-Reply-To: <001101be3cf5$477ed0e0$2430c5c3@sci.fi> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Here in Seattle, WA where fashion is not necessarily "our brothers keeper", but it does make a difference? Dadant Candles stand out as popular retail items in some of the more fashionable downtown stores. Have you seen this in your city too? Or are these lovely products more oriented to the mailorder shopper? dm ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 21:41:13 +1300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "K. Bokhorst" Subject: Re: apitherapy books? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Ines Kinchen Aan: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Datum: maandag 11 januari 1999 9:30 Onderwerp: apitherapy books? >Are there any recommendable books on apitherapy (in the USA) >I am also looking on good books on how to use propolis. > > >Hello Inez Go to the site of amazon.com and look for propolis or apitherapy you will find quite a lot. IMO Royden Brown s Bee Hive Product Bible is one of the best for a reasonable amount of money ($ 7.96) Karel Bokhorst Dutch Beekeeper > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 20:05:58 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Frederick L. Hollen" Subject: Re: Anti-Varroa Floors. In-Reply-To: <199901102303.SAA07894@pen3.pen.k12.va.us>; from "David Eyre" at Jan 10, 99 5:45 pm According to David Eyre: > 1. Has anyone got experience of any anti-varroa floor? > > > For those unfamiliar with Anti-Varroa floors, the thinking is that there > is a natural drop of varroa off the bees. With a solid floor they can crawl > back up to reinfest the bee, whereas the mesh or open floor allows the > varroa to drop out of the hive. > Please reply to the list, I would like some discussion as I believe > these floors have merit. David (and others) I found information on Anti-Varroa floors at: http://www.apiculture.com/plateau-anti-varroas/ It's a French site, in French -- I don't know if it's available in English or not, but the diagrams are self-explanatory. Regards, Fred Virginia, USA 38 degrees 2 minutes North 79 degrees 5 minutes West ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 21:45:43 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: david yates Subject: Carniolan bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Will Carniolan bees do well here in Tennessee? Hot summers, rather wet fall and winter, at least over the past few years it seems. I understand they are a bit more resistant to mites than Italians, is that true? If anyone has packages/nucs for sale please email me. Thanks. David Yates davidy@usit.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 21:59:53 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Al Needham Subject: Beekeepers in Sydney Area ??? Comments: cc: johns@sah.org.au MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi: I received a message via my web site from a John Sanburg who is interested in becoming a hobbyist beekeeper. Anyone of you around the Sydney, Australia area who is willing to help him out on how to get started ??? If so, will you please contact him at : John Sanburg - johns@sah.org.au Thanks, Al Needham ................................................................... The BeeHive - Scituate, MA,USA All About Honey Bees & Beekeeping Beekeeping Books & Videos http://www.xensei.com/users/alwine ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 20:35:02 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Valentine Subject: Re: Anti-Varroa Floors. Man with some answers? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I have seen "open bottom" double hardware cloth bottom boards. I believe the beekeepers name is Ed Lord. I don't know his address or phone #. He is located in western New York State. He is a good Christian and he's in his 80s, if he could be located I'm sure he would answer any questions asked. John CT ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:05:53 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Dalby Subject: Re: apitherapy books? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter and Barbara Dalby, England E-mail: peter.pebadale@virgin.net barbara.dalby@virgin.net Web Site: http://freespace.virgin.net/peter.pebadale -----Original Message----- From: Ines Kinchen To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Date: 10 January 1999 20:38 Subject: apitherapy books? >Are there any recommendable books on apitherapy (in the USA) >I am also looking on good books on how to use propolis. > Suggested sources of apitherapy information in N America---- Michael Simics,Apitronic Services E Mail--msimics@direct.ca web site http://www.beevenom.com Honeybee Health Products E Mail------beevenom@aol.com Also it may be worth Joining the American Apitherapy Society(AAS) Web site---http://www.beesting.com Petr Dalby ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 02:07:28 -0700 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Some Changes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I've just done a a fairly major overhaul of all my web pages so that things are a bit easier to use and find. There is always something left to work on, but things should be better than they have been. Try http://www.internode.net/honeybee/ for some of the following: Art {HYPERLINK "../Art/Default.htm"}Journey to Zero Degrees {HYPERLINK "http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~dicka/Gallery/gallery.html"}The Old Schoolhouse Honey Bees {HYPERLINK "../Pix/Default.htm"}Our Operation {HYPERLINK "../Loader/Loader.htm"}Hive Loaders {HYPERLINK "../BeeScience/Default.htm"}Nosema Experiment {HYPERLINK "../spring.htm"}Spring Management {HYPERLINK "../unwrap.htm"}Unwrapping {HYPERLINK "../splitting.htm"}Splitting {HYPERLINK "../Bee/Default.htm"}Bee Discussion Lists {HYPERLINK "../Misc/Pollen.htm"}Pollen Patties {HYPERLINK "../Misc/Extender.htm"}Extender Patties {HYPERLINK "../WildBees/Default.htm"}Pollination Pictures {HYPERLINK "../Formic/Default.htm"}Formic Acid {HYPERLINK "../Kashmir.htm"}Kashmir Virus {HYPERLINK "../Neem.htm"}Neem {HYPERLINK "../queens.htm"}Queens Piping {HYPERLINK "../Fairview/Default.htm"}Fairview College Bee Course {HYPERLINK "../Analog/Default.htm"}Honey Analog Protest {HYPERLINK "Default.htm"}Free Bee Ads {HYPERLINK "../Misc/for_sale.htm"}Things I have for Sale {HYPERLINK "../bestlist.htm"}Links Other Allen ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 10:55:46 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "CHARLES S. MCMARROW" Subject: Re: FLOWERS As we are planning our garden, what type of flowers are best for the bees? ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 17:44:36 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: Nuke (c) dimensions/sizes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi All/Gary Having myself been ripped off about this I will venture a little bit of humour. As to the size of the nukes needed it will depend largely on finance. Wealthy investors (eg US, etc) tend to go for larger ones, but this depends largely on the delivery system and the sites where they will be placed. Smaller powers, such as India and South Africa on the other hand tended to opt for slightly smaller models, mainly for placement within a regional level. On the other hand most countries tend to stick to a standard nuc size of about 4 to five frames, with a good bit of head space so the hives don't everheat as small boxes can do. If it was not for Hiroshima and Nagasaki I am sure these nucs would have killed more people than the other type as well! Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis 6139 South Africa Time = Honey ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 23:51:33 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Stefan Stangaciu Subject: Re: apitherapy books? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: Ines Kinchen To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Date: Sonntag, 10. Januar 1999 21:16 Subject: apitherapy books? Are there any recommendable books on apitherapy (in the USA) I am also looking on good books on how to use propolis. Ines Hello dear Ines, There are many apitherapy and propolis related books written in USA. Just have a look into our Apitherapy Reference Data Base, in the "Bibliography" areas: www.sci.fi/~apither I have written myself a book on propolis and it's medical uses which have been well appreciated at the last Apimondia Congress in Antwerp, Belgium. I'll send you later, if interested, more details on it. We have also in the above Apitherapy Web Site a list with 1314 titles on propolis... Also if you need more specific info on this, please write me privately. Kind regards, Stefan Stangaciu, MD, LAcup. apither@gmb.ro ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 13:46:09 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Dalby Subject: Re: Africanised bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: Ken Hoare To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Date: 10 January 1999 09:18 Subject: Africanised bees Sugest Ken Hoare looks @ Brother Adams books re import of genitic material from Africa and its inclusion in the breeding progames at Buckfast Abbey Peter Dalby ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 13:57:18 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard Spiekhout Subject: Re: Apitherapy course proposal and web site Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Apetherapy web site is ""www.SCI.FI"?? Science Fiction?? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:22:15 -0500 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: Anti-Varroa Floors. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (Thomas) (Cornick) wrote: > On a regular bottom board I plan to smear with petroleum jelly I will place > a piece of hardware cloth with 1/8" openings in the mesh. On top of the mesh > will go a frame of 3/4" stock on three sides so that the entrance to the > hivebody is above the mesh and debris and mites are free to fall to the > grease. > Another piece of 3/4" stock will seal up the original opening in the bottom > board. I wonder if this design wouldn't create a lot of extra work cleaning bottom boards. With things as they are usually done, the bees clean off the trash during the summer and our basic help to them is only once in the spring. If the bottom board were coated with vaseline, then boarded up, the whole spring, summer and automn's worth of debris would accumulate in addition to the mites. To clean them up, the entire hive would have to be taken down - a lot of work when fully supered and full of honey and maximum bee populations! I favor the thought of having the bottom board be a hardware cloth open mesh for times other than winter. Not only would the mites drop out, but so would all the fine debris - thus saving the bees a lot of extra effort. Ant control might be the main issue. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 16:51:55 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Stefan Stangaciu Subject: FLOWERS, Health and Nutrition. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: CHARLES S. MCMARROW To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Date: Montag, 11. Januar 1999 13:27 Subject: Re: FLOWERS As we are planning our garden, what type of flowers are best for the bees? Hello dear Charles (?), The best flowers are in my opinion the ones which offers several advantages: * food and bio-drugs for bees but also * food and natural remedies for humans or animals. In our Apitherapy Reference Data Base we have such a list with about 120 plants useful for bees, but also for animals and humans. This plants (herbs, shrubs, trees etc.) are specific for Europe (Romania). If interested, make a visit at: www.sci.fi/~apither in the "Downloadable" area. Good luck! Sincerely, Stefan Stangaciu, MD, LAcup. Constanta, Romania apither@gmb.ro ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 11:11:49 -0500 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: Anti-Varroa Floors. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I looked at the web site: http://www.apiculture.com/plateau-anti-varroas/ I really cannot see the value in glass tubes forming the floor as opposed to Thomas Cornick's suggestion of using a wire mesh floor. I would expect that during the course of a year, semi sticky debris would fall and stick to the tubes, eventually clogging up the narrow space between them and rendering them useless for getting rid of mites. I would think that 1/4 inch mesh might be even better than 1/8 mesh because of less material for debris to stick to. It also just occurred to me now that a 1/4 inch mesh would allow bees to move through, perhaps letting them cluster below the hive in the shade during hot summer days rather than sitting out front in the hot sun. (They seem to like clustering under the entrance board anyway.) Mites could still drop off onto the ground beneath the hive. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 18:55:57 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: Africanized bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Greets All/Ken Ken you asked about the effect of climate on africanised bees and whether an irresponsible beekeeper returning from a holiday with a few african bees in her/his luggage may put other beekeepers at risk. If we are referring to the africanized bee as the cross between Am.european races and A.m.scutellata which is moving slowly into the US at present, I do not believe this bee has the ability to survive far north. The bee can survive short periods of low temperature, but does not organize it's cluster. I believe that A.m.scutellata has been kept by hobby beekeepers in Germany, FRance and Norway, where queens were overwintered with carnolian workers. The bees if not treat in this way died of. I suspect that A.m.capensis could survive a UK winter in the coastal areas under a warm winter, but would perish in a cold winter - scientists and other individuals have kept A.m.capensis periodically in the UK since some time last century. If however we consider an africanized bee to be any bee with african blood (genes) then people keep this bee allover the north - it is called the buckfast bee and contains elements of the highland bees of africa which are genetically quite similar to scutellata. I recently had the pleasure of working such hives in Lesotho (similar bees to the ones in Kenya in some ways) and found them to be docile resourceful hard working bees that could easily be worked without protective gear. If such a bee were smuggled into the states I would have no problem with it as it is as exotic as the other honeybee races there, is capable of tolerating the small hive beetle and is able to tolerate being surrounded by reasonably thick snow sometimes for as long as two or three months - even some hives which are hanging under cliffs survive this!! Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis 6139 South Africa Time = Honey ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:07:49 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Al Needham Subject: Re: apitherapy books? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sun, 10 Jan 1999 21:41:13 +1300 "K. Bokhorst" writes: >Go to the site of amazon.com and look for propolis or apitherapy >you will find quite a lot. >IMO Royden Brown s Bee Hive Product Bible is one of the best >for a reasonable amount of money ($ 7.96) If you wish to help a fellow hobbyist beekeeper, you can get there via "The BeeHive Bookstore" on my web site. I appreciate the business... :-) http://www.xensei.com/users/alwine/books.html Al Needham ................................................................... The BeeHive - Scituate, MA,USA All About Honey Bees & Beekeeping Beekeeping Books & Videos http://www.xensei.com/users/alwine ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 10:11:32 -0700 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Improved Access on Web Site MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT For those who have not been on the web lately, there is quite a proliferation of pages relating to bees, and most are pretty good. Some are really heavy duty. I've just done a a fairly major overhaul of the navigation on all my web pages so that things are a bit easier to use and find. There is always something left to work on, but things should be better than they have been. Try http://www.internode.net/honeybee/ for the following subjects: Pictures of Our Operation Hive Loaders Nosema Experiment Spring Management Unwrapping Splitting Bee Discussion Lists Pollen Patties Extender Patties Pollination Pictures Formic Acid Kashmir Virus Neem Queens Piping Fairview College Bee Course Honey Analog Protest Free Bee Ads Things I have for Sale Links and more... Allen ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:11:56 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: Spent yeast MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Greets All/Richard Richard - you asked about my suggestion that one replenish the sugar in the spent yeast and aerate it and whether this would not just increase alcohol prodution, and secondly as to whether the sludge is still alive or if it has been killed by the brewing byproducts and lack of food at the end of the brewing proccess. Large breweries here, and I gather this is common around the world reuse yeast for six or seven batches of beer, after which it gets a bit sluggish - this is the stuff I suspect beekeepers get sold - and which I suspect is nutritionally less useful than good vital yeast. Between batches many breweries will aerate the yeast, acid wash it and heat it, in a specific order to kill of bacteria (yeast is acid resistant down to about pH1.8 - 2.0) and after this the yeast is aerated and fed a bit of sugar - using the sugar as a carbon source and oxygen it is able to replenish it's stores of various fats including gamma linoleic and linolenic acid which are essential stored products in young emerging bees which are about to synthesize wax (Hepburn et al, 1990 ish - I can look this up if anybody needs it exactly). The yeast is once again vital and can brew another batch or two - and I suspect this yeast is ten times more valuable to a bee than the spent stuff which has lipids that are about as useful to a bee as cooking oil. As far as the yeast dieing is concerned - yeast is difficult to kill. The strain I work with can sit at the bottom of a flask for three weeks at low pH, room temp, no sugar, no oxygen and still remain vaguely alive. The heating proccess - it is both to rid the slurry of alcohol, to kill the yeast - but hopefully not damage the nutritious stuff. (Interestingly some strains of yeast can produce alcohol even while being aerated - the Crabtree effect - it would depend on the brewery whether they had a strain which did this or not) I don't know what bees alcohol tolerance is, but suspect that lightly fermnted nectar makes them a bit ratty and unreasonable as here on humid days when certain upward cupping sweet flowers are open the bees can be quite unreasonable, and on similar days when they aren't flowering, but other things are the bees are fine. Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis 6139 South Africa Time = Honey ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 18:14:55 -0800 Reply-To: gclewis@removepenn.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "cnsibm.albany.edu Gary C. Lewis" Subject: NUCS,Nukes, Newks,Knewks,Neques. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Bee Folk, It seems I may have miz-speltd Nuc in my last post. Thanks to all that replied.There was a lot of good info offered. I think I will go with a 5 frame (insert correct spelling here). The purpose of the 5 frame (insert correct word here) will be for experience never having built up a population in a (insert correct spelling here). It just seems to be another step in my beekeeping. The Nucs would be a learning experience plus a way to have queens and bees on hand. It is costly to order package bees, last years bees cost me over $100.00 for 2, 5 pound packages. If I hadn't killed my bees the winter before I would not have had to buy new bees for last season. For those that don't remembr my post last year. I killed my bees with good intentions. I was feeding surgar syrup in 1 gallon cans and the cans leaked on the clusters and the bees froze. It was a very costly, stupid mistake and it was very depressing to find all my bees dead. So if anyone plans on feeding with buckets or new paint cans. Make sure to put fewer holes in the lids 3 to 5 should be enough and make sure that you level the cans with a shim. I did not think about the fact that the hives were tilted foreward so moisture would run off and out of the hives. I will feed dry sugar during the cold months from now on. Someone posted a reply that I didn't offer enough information with my request for info. So I will give that now. I live in Duke Center, Pennsylvania, USA. in north central Pa, This section of the state is called the ice box of Pa. It gets very cold here in the winter actual temps of 10 -15 below zero and windchills much colder. Spring tends to be wet and cool if not cold. Last year we had freezing temps into late May. A normal summer is warm 60- 80 and getting hot towards the end of summer up into the 90's. Rain fall is generally regular through out the summer, usually a rain fall every two weeks or so. Last year however was a very bad year for rain. At this time most of the state is under draught conditions water levels are very low. We have two streams on our property so the bees always have a source of water. My hives are kept under the shade of a willow tree that buds out late so the hives get early spring sunlight and warmth but good shade in the heat of summer. There is good air movement around the hive most of the time. We had a good golden rod bloom this past fall and didn't really get hit with cold weather until the first day of winter. My bees were flying in November and earlt December. When I checked my hives at the end of November they were heavy and a quick look under the inner cover showed good stores. I checked the hives a few days ago and they were very light. I now worry that there will not be food for the remainder of the winter. The populations in the hive were very large in the fall going into winter. The hives could be heard humming from a few feet away in the begining of December, there was a lot of activity going on in both of them. When I removed the reducers I used a stick to clean out what I expected to be many dead bees but found very few. The bees had been keeping things clean. There were dead bees on the ground in front of both hives. I will check again in a few days if it warms up a bit and see what the dead count looks like now. Thanks for your time and the replies. Gary C. Lewis Duke Center, Pa. USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 14:45:12 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Please, Please PLEASE, " QUOTES" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I was SO happy to see Ernest Gregoire write: > Excessive quoting is a big problem .... Excessive quoting is a common problem on all lists and is the primary reason that BEE-L became a moderated list. For all the reasons posts to BEE-L are refused, excessive quotes is by far and away the most common. Additionally, there are other reasons that submissions to BEE-L are not approved for distribution. Most times, offending submissions are "returned to sender" with an explanation. It would be more time efficient to post occasional reminders of proper BEE-L nettiquette. Please keep in mind the following suggestions when submitting material to the list. Sincerely, Aaron Morris Since BEE-L has been a moderated list it has become aparant that there are 6 catagories of inappropriate postings which result in the submission not being approved for general distribution. Those catagories are listed below, followed by the short rejection notice that may be returned to sender. 1. Excessive Quoting: Your post to BEE-L is being returned beacuse it contains an entire quote of a previous submission. Excessive quoting clutters up the BEE-L archives and is considered bad nettiquette. Please edit the quoted material so that it only includes that which is pertinent to the point you are making and resubmit your article. Thank you for helping to make BEE-L a better list. 2. Article submitted as an HTML document or MIME format. Your submission to BEE-L was rejected because it was sent as an HTML document or with MIME formatting. Please if you will, resend your post as "text only" Thank you for your continued participation on BEE-L. 3. Personal response sent to the entire list Your recent submission to BEE-L is being returned to you as it is a personal response to a previous post. Your response should be sent to the author of the previously posted material. Thank you for your continued participation on BEE-L. 4. File Attachments not allowed Your submission to BEE-L was rejected because it contains a file attachment of unknown type that: a. may not be readable by all mailers b. adds nothing to the content of your post. Please if you will, resubmit your post without the attachment. Thanks you for your continued participation on BEE-L. 5. Service request sent to the list rather than the server Your submission to BEE-L is being returned to you because it is a request for service which should be sent to the server (LISTSERV@cnsibm.albany.edu), not the list (BEE-L@cnsibm.albany.edu). 6. Off Topic Your submission to BEE-L has been rejected because it is not related to the 'Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology'. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 14:18:19 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dave Malachy Subject: Re: Please, Please PLEASE, " QUOTES" In-Reply-To: <990111.144612.EST.SYSAM@cnsibm.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi AAron! I'm Back. DaveE in Seattle YEA DAVE! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:02:51 -0800 Reply-To: gclewis@penn.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "cnsibm.albany.edu Gary C. Lewis" Subject: Submitted for Discussion. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hell-o Bee Folk, I have been reading the post about the wire mesh floors to aid in getting rid of the mites that fall off. Sounds like a good idea but I am not sure that it goes far enough. We have the mites out of the hives then what? The mite that we are all fighting is like the tick we find on reptiles, birds, and mammals. (I don't want to split hairs over the family the mite falls into) They find a host, suck blood, get fat, and fall off breed and so it goes. Ticks and other insects can stick around for a long time without a host and just wait for the chance to get on to another blood supply. Unless we have something beneath the hives, to kill or trap the mite, what is going to prevent them from working their way back up into the hives? We need to kill them not just get them out of the hives. How long can these mites live without a host? Will they latch onto some other insect, bird, or animal and be spread outside of the hive? Getting into the ecosystem and hurting other benificial insects? We have a very large Bumble Bee population here in this area of Pennsylvania. Last summer the ratio of Bumble Bees to Honey Bees had to be a least 50 - 1. Never saw so many Bumble Bees before. Will this mite live on the Bumble Bee. I know the life and nesting habits of the Bumble Bee is different than that of the Honey Bee; is there a chance of a cross over from one to the other? I would hate to see a booming population of one brought down by the plauge of another. It is not uncommon to see two or three different type bees on a plant along with the Honey Bee. So far I have just asked questions and offered nothing in the way of ideas. So here are a few thoughts. Unless your hives are supported on just the four corners, and not on pallets as mine are the system will not work. The mites must be able to fall directly from the hive to be destroyed. I suggest a removable pan or tray be placed under the hive, it covered with hardware cloth, and holding water, checked and removed daily. There should also be a way of getting most of the mites in one shot. To that end I am going to try something I came across on a web page the other day. I can't recall what page at this time but I will look it up and post it if any are intrerested in reading what I did. What I read was a report about different methods being tried to get the mites off the bee and out of the hive. Different plants were being used to test which works best. Some of the plants did little or nothing others had varing sucess. A few worked great on getting the mites off the bees and dead. They also had very bad results on the bees. The one plant that seems to hold the best potential is the leaf of the "Grapefruit". The report stated that; with just a one minute smoking 90 - 100% of the mites fell off of the bees. The smoke did not kill the mites. Key point: There did not appear to be any ill effect on the Honey Bee in this test with the dried grapefruit leaves as the source of smoke. My plan: I will build the open wire floor bottom boards and smoke with the leaves of the grapefruit plant. I will repeat the smoking for a two to three weeks period, twice a week. That should get any mites that were closed up in cells at the first smoking. If I notice any strange behaviour in the hive I will stop the smoking. Where do I get "Grapefruit Leaves in Pensylvania in winter? From a Grapefruit. Buy a grapefruit at your local produce store. Not the pink seedless type. Take the seeds from the grapefruit and set them in a flower pot. They will grow. I plan on starting as many as I can. If you start now, mid winter here in Pa. You will be able to set the plants outdoors come spring and have a fair size tree with many leaves on them.No, no grapefruits. You can pull a few leaves every once in awhile and let them dry. You will then have a regular steady supply of leaves. Also these leaves will not have been sprayed with any chemiclas that may be injurous to the bees. That's it. Not much else to do here in the cold, so I figured I would see what ideas others have and what plans are out there for the upcoming season. Thank You for Your time. Gary C. Lewis Duke Center, Pa. USA> ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 18:11:37 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andrew & Tiffany Subject: FREE QUEEN BEES 1999!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit wouldn't free queens be nice ? now that I have your attention I have a question for anyone on B-L :) my question is .... I rent bees to a farmer, the problem is his lease is up January 31 , the property is no longer his after that time. IS IT OK TO MOVE MY BEES WHEN IT IS THE DEAD OF WINTER ?? I was never faced with moving bees in the winter and was wondering if this would have any ill effects ? someone please reply soon, I don't have much of a choice, they must be moved... :( any advice would be appreciated. thanks much !! Andrew & Tiffany email : dubees@enter.net home page : http://www.enter.net/~dubees ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 00:13:55 -0800 Reply-To: gclewis@penn.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "cnsibm.albany.edu Gary C. Lewis" Subject: Re: FREE QUEEN BEES 1999!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Andrew $ Tiffany, I have never had to moves bees in the winter but I would think it is an excellent time to do it. The bees are dormant or should be. If it were me I would make sure that each hive is secured with straps or wooden cleats to hold them(supers,tops and bottom boards) together and would also place some screen over the entrance even if the is a reducer in place. I would also make sure that the hives were covered during transit. Old blankets or tarps. Anything to keep a windchill factor from coming into play, taking off any heat from the hives. That's all I can think off. As to hurting the bees. I think that when they wake up in the spring they will be just fine. Waking up, yawning, looking out, and saying Hmmm something has changed. They won't care. They will go through the same process as new bees finding the way around the beeyard and where home is. Good luck. How many hives do you need to move and where are you located. You might have mentioned it in your message, but I don't have message quoting on so the message isn't here in front of me. Wish you well. Try not to shake them up to much and all should be fine Gary C. Lewis Duke Center, Pa. USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:42:33 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Christopher Slade Subject: Re: Comb building Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit While agreeing with everything Tim Sterret says I would add that the bees tend to draw the centre combs first. When they have done so you can swap them with the outside frames of foundation and assist the bees slightly. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 18:34:01 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Victoria McDonough Subject: Rent Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi All, A little while ago someone asked what the proper "rent" would be for keeping hives one another person's land. The replies from this list indicated that a case of honey per hive is appropriate. This sounds very reasonable to me but I have the following questions: is a case 12, 1 LB jars or 24, 1 LB jars? I assume the beekeeper jars up the honey and does not simply give it to the landowner in bulk. Is this correct? Does the beekeeper put their own labels on the jars? Thanks for the clarification. Regards, Vickie hobbyist, 1 1/2 years, 4 hives Green Harbor, MA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 23:56:50 -0800 Reply-To: gclewis@penn.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "cnsibm.albany.edu Gary C. Lewis" Subject: Smoke Test Address and Stat Correction MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The address for the report "Smoking Out Bee Mites" is: www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/mitesmoke0897.htm Correction: should read; 90-95% of mites fell off of bees. Not 90-100% Also in what I plan to do:the wire mesh mentioned being placed over the tray or pan is to keep the bees out. Gary C. Lewis Duke Cneter, Pa. USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 20:25:41 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garry Libby Subject: Re: Rent In-Reply-To: <0539a3752000c19UPIMSSMTPSYS06@email.msn.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Vicky, Bottling a case of honey seems like a lot of work and a little expensive for yard rent. most of the beekeepers I know give the person that let them use the land about five lbs of honey in a five lb jar. That is usually an impressive size for a regular person. A friend and I keep twelve hives on a berry farm. We have a deal with the farmer, He buys all Our honey. We bottle it in one lb jars, sell it to Him for $2.75 per jar, He puts His own farm brand labels on the jars and sells them for $3.75 at His farm stand. We pay nothing in rent, and He gets some good pollination at a good price. There are many ways to make deals. Don't forget, the average person probably doesn't use five lbs in an entire year, so don't be over generous, You work hard to get Your hundred or so lbs per hive, don't give a quarter of it away. Good luck, Garry Libby Boston, USA LibBEE@email.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:30:50 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Green Subject: Re: Rent Comments: cc: McDonoughV@aol.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/11/99 7:50:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, McDonoughV@AOL.COM writes: > A little while ago someone asked what the proper "rent" would be for keeping > hives one another person's land. The replies from this list indicated that > a > case of honey per hive is appropriate. This sounds very reasonable to me > but > I have the following questions: > is a case 12, 1 LB jars or 24, 1 LB jars? > I assume the beekeeper jars up the honey and does not simply give it to the > landowner in bulk. Is this correct? > Does the beekeeper put their own labels on the jars? It would have to be an exceptional yard for me to be willing to give more than a case for the entire yard. A case per hive, would more than use up any profit there would be in keeping bees. Some of my yard owners do not take any honey at all, they just want bees on the property. I try to remember them with a gift now and then, perhaps a watermelon or a couple cantaloupes that the bees have pollinated. A case, with my yard rents, refers to a case of pints. I put our company labels on the jars. A couple of them only want a couple pint jars with comb. I just try to keep everyone happy. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html The Pollination Home Page: http://www.pollinator.com Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:50:36 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Robert J. Cessac" Subject: Re: FREE QUEEN BEES 1999!! Comments: To: Andrew & Tiffany MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Andrew, in your part of the country, Pennsylvania, I would not move the bee hives if at all possible. The winter cluster would probably be broken and the bees would not be able to recluster and you would lose your bees. If you could wait for a day when it would be 55 deg and they may be flying, it may work because the bees have broken their cluster. Good luck. Bob ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:53:02 -0500 Reply-To: info@beeworks.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Anti-Varroa Floors. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 11 Jan 99, at 11:11, Ted Fischer wrote: > I looked at the web site: > http://www.apiculture.com/plateau-anti-varroas/ > > I really cannot see the value in glass tubes forming the floor as > opposed to Thomas Cornick's suggestion of using a wire mesh floor. I > would expect that during the course of a year, semi sticky debris would > fall and stick to the tubes, eventually clogging up the narrow space > between them and rendering them useless for getting rid of mites. I Thanks to everybody who sent the URL http://www.apiculture.com/plateau-anti-varroas/ not really what I needed, which is why I posted the questions. I think the tubes could be plastic, but I failed to see the need for them, (mind you my French is none existant) which makes understanding the pages difficult. More comments, please. ***************************************** The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada. Phone (705)326 7171 Fax (705)325 3461 David Eyre, Owner e-mail http://www.beeworks.com This months special:-Queen Rearing Equipment. **************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 20:38:57 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Varroa no problem in some Texas bees? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Posted for your discussion and information: Dec. 28, 1998 TEXAS A&M ENTOMOLOGISTS ON LOOKOUT FOR FERAL BEES Writer: Robert Burns (903) 834-6191, rd-burns@tamu.edu Source: Dr. Rodney Holloway (409) 845-3849, rodneyh@aes.tamu.edu OVERTON -- Due to the varroa mite, a parasite that kills or deforms honeybee larvae, approximately 90 percent of the wild bee colonies in East Texas have been eliminated, according to Dr. Rodney Holloway, extension entomologist. Those wild bee colonies that survive may possess some degree of genetic resistance to the varroa mite, which has decimated domesticated bees both in the United States and Europe, said Holloway, speaking to 140 people attending a recent pesticide applicator recertification conference at the Texas A&M University Agricultural Research and Extension Center at Overton in Rusk County. Finding genetic strains of wild or "feral" honeybees that are resistant to the varroa mite is essential to the raising and care of bees for commercial or agricultural purposes. While the mite has nearly wiped out feral colonies, it is also decimating domesticated hives. Honeybees not only produce honey for human consumption but pollinate many important East Texas crops, including cantaloupes, cucumbers, pumpkins, pears, apples and watermelons. Watermelons are particularly dependent upon pollination. Each watermelon blossom requires about 1,000 grains of pollen, or about eight bee visits, to be pollinated. Just as critical, the blossom is only open during one day of the growing season. Without pollination, the melon will grow to about 1-1/2inches long and abort. If it's not fully pollinated, the watermelon may be undersized or misshapen. Fortunately for East Texas, Apistan strips, the only chemical control for varroa mites, still rids hives of the pest. But in the Southeast United States, misuse of a related chemical has resulted in the development of a mite population resistant to the strips, Holloway said. For reasons unknown, the mites have not become a widespread problem in Central Texas, but remain confined to East Texas hives. If Texas varroa mites were to become resistant to Apistan, then it would be "a very serious situation" because there's no other product available to control the parasite. If this were to happen, then finding genetically resistant lines in the feral bee population might become essential to a domestic honeybee breeding program, he said. -30- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 23:40:44 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Donald Aitken Subject: Re: Anti-Varroa Floors. Comments: To: David Eyre In-Reply-To: <199901120435.VAA13266@fn1.freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 11 Jan 1999, David Eyre wrote: > I think the tubes could be plastic, but I failed to see the need for > them, I think the inventor of the floor feels that his bees are better behaved if light is admitted below the brood chamber. Donald Aitken 11710-129 Street Edmonton Alberta Canada T5M 0Y7 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 21:53:02 -0500 Reply-To: Bee-L@cnsibm.albany.edu Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Anti-Varroa Floors. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 11 Jan 99, at 9:22, Ted Fischer wrote: > I wonder if this design wouldn't create a lot of extra work cleaning > bottom boards. With things as they are usually done, the bees clean off > the trash during the summer and our basic help to them is only once in the > spring. If the bottom board were coated with vaseline, then boarded up, > the whole spring, summer and automn's worth of debris would accumulate in One design out of Europe, basically the same but with a drawer removable from the back of the hive. Needless to say it would alleviate taking down the hive, but if it's from a solid material the Varroa could climb back. > I favor the thought of having the bottom board be a hardware cloth open > mesh for times other than winter. Not only would the mites drop out, but > so would all the fine debris - thus saving the bees a lot of extra effort. > Ant control might be the main issue. My thoughts would be to use our present hive stand, and adding a mesh floor open to the ground. For those who don't know, we use a hive stand of pressure treated 2x4s to form a box, closed on all sides, draught proof. Our floors then fit over this square forming a closed box below a solid floor. My thinking, the Varroa would fall through to the ground below. As has beeb stated ant contol would be a major issue, which is why I asked the question. Does anyone have a suggestion? ***************************************** The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada. Phone (705)326 7171 Fax (705)325 3461 David Eyre, Owner e-mail http://www.beeworks.com This months special:-Queen Rearing Equipment. **************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:17:27 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Varroa Floors Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello All In my opinion, the basic function of a varroa floor is to enable the beekeeper to control varroa. The wire mesh on the floor isolates the mites that die from the bees, so that the bees will not clean up the mites and upset the mite count. The mite count and the time of year determines when varroa control (if any) is carried out. The floors on my hives have a sheet of plywood under the mesh. I periodically affix a sheet of computer listing paper to the plywood, and write the date and name of the apiary on it. The plywood sheet is then slid in under the wire mesh. Then I check for mites (thankfully I have not yet got any), and then send the paper to the local research centre for professional analysis. The back of the plywood has a wooden batten nailed to it, and a handle stuck to the batten. This means that the varroa floor is moth and wasp proof, and it also prevents a current of air entering the hive from that direction. The handle makes for easier removal and re-insertion of the plywood sheet. The varroa floor can also be used to find out what is going on in the hive when the hive cannot be opened. Tiny insects can be seen wandering around, probably pollen mites. I believe that there is a flotation technique which can be used to separate any mites from the detritus. If the debris is tipped into a tall jar filled with a mixture of meths / water in equal quantities the mites ( and an awful lot more floats to the top. This can be decanted into a broad jar ( petrie dish) and examined. I have found pollen, wax, chalk brood and Braula in my debris. A varroa floor insert seems to me to be a valuable source of information, if I can gain some experience in making sense of it. Also with the regular removal of the debris there is no need to spring clean the floor. Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland Hobbyist beekeeper e mail cssl@iol.ie Tel + 353 1 289 5269 Fax + 353 1 289 9940 Latitude 53 Degrees 16' North Longitude 6 Degrees 9' West of Greenwich ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:17:33 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Feeding Bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello All Recently I was reading about feeding bees, and hoping that I gave them enough to see them through the winter. Having read what I did, now I am not too sure. I was working on the basis of ensuring that the bees have about 35lbs (16kgs) of stores in a British National hive here in Ireland. I read that bees work their way upwards when consuming stores. A situation can then arise, which as the book put it, we can have a 'Captain Scott' situation, whereby that brave man and his companions whilst in the Antarctic, died within striking distance of adequate stores, because they did not have the energy to reach them. The bees, with their propensity to travel upwards for stores, may thus die, because the stores to save them are only a few centimetres away but horizontally positioned. In other words, there are enough stores, but in the wrong place. Would it not then be advisable, to always overwinter on two brood chambers, even if this meant allowing them access to only half of each brood chamber by using a follower board?. What do the list members think? Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland Hobbyist beekeeper e mail cssl@iol.ie Tel + 353 1 289 5269 Fax + 353 1 289 9940 Latitude 53 Degrees 16' North Longitude 6 Degrees 9' West of Greenwich ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 09:39:08 -0500 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: Varroa floors MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gary Lewis asks whether varroa are like ticks in that they can wait around for long periods of time before needing to get to a host. He believes in that case the open mesh varroa floor wouldn't work because the mites could eventually crawl up again into the hive. Dave Eyre suggests that the hive bottom support should be made as a box of treated 2x4s upon which the open mesh bottom board should be placed. I would suspect that mites are not like ticks, in that they need to feed regularly. However, they are very mobile, and might well get back into the hive. Why not use Dave's bottom board support (which is fully enclosed, if I understand it right) and coat the inside of it with vaseline (petroleum jelly) or some other similar product? The mites would fall through the mesh below the hive, then be unable to get back because of the greasy hive support and soon die off. Ants also would not be able to get in because of the petroleum jelly. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 13:40:05 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Dalby Subject: Moving bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Andrew &Tiffany need to move bees in winter. I have done this on a number of occasions and not noticed any significant harmful effect on the bees. If weather is cold the only preparation needed for moving is to block entrances(I use strips of plastic foam). I have never moved bees more than a few miles during our English winter. One advantage of winter moves is that you can move colonies short distances and they will not usually return to the original site as they would when actively flying Peter and Barbara Dalby, England E-mail: peter.pebadale@virgin.net barbara.dalby@virgin.net Web Site: http://freespace.virgin.net/peter.pebadale ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:38:05 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "C.R. Crowell" Subject: Re: Spent yeast MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I recently "proofed" some baker's yeast, to compare some I had used in bread that had failed to rise, with some "fresh" yeast that worked. After observing the difference in gas production and general "foaming" I examined some of the water/sugar/yeast "slurry" under a microscope but could not observe anything at 400x, except what appeared to be small bubbles. I was anxious to actually see the little yeast guys (as were my kids). I used a cover slip over the slurry, and the bubbles seemed to stop forming soon after. Is 400x enough, and is the cover slip depriving the yeast of oxygen that it needs to keep forming gas? Thanks/ Curtis Crowell ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:35:35 -0700 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Too Much Guessing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT As I read all the posts on this list, I am impressed lately by how much pure conjecture is being posted . Much of it is unneccessary, since the literature which is widely available answers these basic questions, and all the speculation merely muddies the waters. Moreover, manytimes the answers already exist in the BEE-L logs. Sure, it never hurts to bring up an old question again, but it does hurt to publish wild speculation and uninformed musings. It lowers the quality of this list to the point that no informed person will want to have anything to do with it. The people with the answers will give it a wide berth. Unfortunately that is already the case with many bee scientists and extension people. As a case in point, any basic article on varroa specifies how long varroa can live without a host and whether other hosts than apis melifera are known. Let's do our homework, folks, before we post an 'answer' before 700+ people. Let's try to make the list more authoritative. The list is entitled 'INFORMED Discussion of Beekeeping', not 'Wild guesses by the uninformed and inexperienced'. Let's stick to our mandate. --- FAQs? There is no BEE-L FAQ - as such - but you can search for answers to most common questions by visiting http://www.beekeeping.co.nz/beel.htm or send email to LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU and say Search BEE-L KEYWORD(S) ('KEYWORD(S)' means a word or words unique to your question) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 16:26:31 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: ABF Updates anyone? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Haven't heard any news from ABF, did anyone make it? Updates anyone? Inquiring minds want to know! Aaron Morris ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 23:03:22 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Dr. Reimund Schuberth" Subject: Re: Varroa Floors MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht----- Von: Computer Software Solutions Ltd An: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Datum: Dienstag, 12. Januar 1999 13:49 Betreff: Varroa Floors I use the so-called varroa-floors since several years. You can be sure, this construction does not help fighting varroa pest. It is just like Tom Barrett said, the main advantages are on a different field. You can easily control varroa attack by counting the number of varroa mit= es falling through the wire mesh of a hive. It is a help if you have to deci= de whether to fight varroa or not or what kind of method should be used. On the other hand it is ideal for moving the hive with closed entrance. T= he bees get enough fresh air and can less easy overheat. With exception of small hives I've never shut the varroa floors in winter. It seems to me the str= ong hives overwinter better with this "open" floor. And there is less moistur= e inside especially in early spring, when the bees beginn breeding. Even ants are no greater problem for me. I have always driven them back before they can reach the hive. Sincerely Reimund ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Beekeeper in Germany (Bavaria) Queen Rearing of Carniolan Bees Insemination Station ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 50=B0 North, 11=B0 East ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 22:42:29 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Dr. Reimund Schuberth" Subject: Re: FREE QUEEN BEES 1999!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht----- Von: Robert J. Cessac An: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Datum: Dienstag, 12. Januar 1999 06:08 Betreff: Re: FREE QUEEN BEES 1999!! I want to reinforce the statement of Bob. You shouldn't move the hive bef= ore the first flight flight in spring, after bees had the chance of defecatio= n. I have practised this method several times and it works quite well. Reimund ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Beekeeper in Germany (Bavaria) Queen Rearing of Carniolan Bees Insemination Station ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 17:17:34 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Better Bee Subject: Re: ABF Updates anyone? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aaron: I returned last night from ABF, but most people are still there as the banquet is tonight. About 600 attended the conference, and I would say the focus was on the hive beetles and how disasterous they are proving to be. An expert on pheremones has been hired already to find an attractant for a trap. I believe he is working out of Gainesville. Thousands and thousands of hives in Florida have already been destroyed. There was a valiant attempt to try and find something that the beetles liked better than bees, wax and honey. They found they had a predilection for canteloupes, but when the canteloupes were put in yards where there were still plenty of active hives - the beetles ignored the cantelouopes. As for the potential northern range of the beetles which I am sure all you non-Floridians are interested in, no one can even hazard a guess. They froze larvae at 5 below zero for 10 days and it came out crawling! The news on the varroa which seemed lost in the hive beetle storm is fairly good. The Russian queens are proving to be quite resistance and will be released to field conditions with 3 beekeepers this summer. Parent stock if all goes well be released to breeders next spring. Coumaphos emergency approval has gone through but only on a non-food basis, which means that no residues will be allowed in wax and honey. The first time any are found, it will be pulled. The whole emphasis of the researchers seems to have dramatically shifted away from chemicals and none of them seem to be to happy with coumaphos.They are emphasizing IPM methods - now - combined with formic acid and essential oils . It was ironic to me to get back and read the mail on the BEE-L list about bottom mount varroa screens because that is one of the approaches Beltsville is using. There is also info that pollen traps are removing quite a few mites. The feeling is that if you can get 10 % natural fall of varroa with a screen and 80 % + with formic or essential oils and use a resistant queen, you may not need the chemicals like fluvalinate - anyway that was good to hear. I also heard second hand, from Nasr of Guelph, what I had heard rumors of before - that the Argentinians got results of 85% varroa kill with formic gell with one treatment and 95% with two treatments. That was good to hear, but, all in all, the bad news of the beetle far outweighed the good news, but maybe that is because I've got 600 colonies sitting only about 20 miles from where the major coastal outbreaks have been. I wonder if the blueberry growers and cranberry growers who are so dependent on Florida bees have any idea how terrible this thing. Is there anyway to invest in Cranberry juice futures!!!! Regards Bob StevensAaron Morris wrote: > Haven't heard any news from ABF, did anyone make it? Updates anyone? > Inquiring minds want to know! > > Aaron Morris ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 17:23:47 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Anti-Varroa Floors. Man with some answers? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT John Valentine speculated that Ed Lord may be able to offer some information regarding "open bottom" double hardware cloth bottom boards as a possible Anti-Varroa Floor. Ed Lord is a member of my beekeeping association (the Southern Adirondack Beekeepers Association), so I gave him a phone call to ask his advice on his use of open bottom boards, and permission to pass on our conversation to the list. He was happy to give both. Ed uses 1/8 inch hardware cloth to build double screen bottom boards for his hives which he keeps atop pallets. Initially he built these boards to improve ventillation for his bees when he was moving them to Maine for blueberry pollination. So pleased was he with the results that he started using these open bottom boards year round. He feels that the improved ventillation helps his bees through the winter, as there is no condensation and subsequent moist/wet bottom boards. Remember that his open bottoms sit on top of pallets so even though the bottom board is hardware cloth, there is still some wood to provide a modicum of winter protection. Ed attributes the loss of only one hive to his screened bottoms and that was due to a wind tunnel effect that resulted from a combination of unfortunate placement and an open upper entrance. Upon inspection he discovered that the hive was full of snow. However, when I asked Ed if he noticed any positive effect on varroa populations which he could attribute to his open bottom boards he was real clear that he could NOT claim any positive effect. He related his varroa experiences which were typical for these parts (serious, almost devastating problems in '95, nothing in '96 and '97, minor problems in '98). "These parts" are middle upstate New York approximately following the Thruway/Northway corridor from about Ravina/Selkirk to Saratoga - not considered western NY (apologies to those not intimately familiar with the geography of NY). The long and the short of it from Ed was, open bottom boards are GREAT for ventillation but he noticed no improvement regarding varroa. Aaron Morris - thinking no silver bullet here! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 09:34:12 +0000 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jan Tempelman Organization: home Subject: Re: Anti-Varroa Floors. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit photo of the bodem/floor on http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/bodem.html greeting jan -- home of the drone frame method. de darreraat methode -- Rotterdam------ 51.55 N, 4.29 E-------------- San Javier------ 35.36 S, 71.44 W-------Chile- -- http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/index3.html mailto:jtemp@xs4all.nl -- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:28:34 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Sr. Monica Ryan" Subject: Raising Queens in May MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello to All The snowdrops are peeping above the ground, so I am reminded of Spring work in the apiary. I would like 'to raise a small number of queens in May'. To prepare the cell-building colony, a neighbour has told me to use either an artificially swarmed colony or a boosted double chamber stock. What do people of experience see as the advantages and disadvantages of these methods? Many thanks for any advice. Sr. Catherine Ardee, County Louth. (East Coast of Ireland) Note: Sr. Monica is just the computer operator! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:34:54 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Kai-M. Engfer" Subject: Scutellata in Germany MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT In the years 1993 and 1994 8 Scutellata Queen Bees have been brought to Northern Germany in order to observe their behaviour under temperated climate conditions of central Europe. The queen bees were introduced into European colonies in November of each year. They had been well accepted by the European colonies. The first Scutellata worker bees occured in March of the next year. The African bees rapidly built up strong colonies. In May, during the rape seed nectar flow, the colonies prepared for swarming, and indeed at least one swarm left the bee yard. The bees were rather aggressive: they turned very nervous when someone was standing in the near of the hives. I never was able to open a hive without a bee veil. After the inspections bees were following me more than 50 meters up to my house. They even tried to enter the house through doors and windows. A European bee colony was attacked by the African bees. It lost all its honey and finally died out through the fight with the Africans and lack of food. In August the African colonies were fed up with 20 kg sugar each in order to prepare them for winter. Everything looked well: the bees readily took the food and put it into the cells. The bees were very active and gathered much pollen from wild flowers and from maize. The colonies however died out during the first strong frost in December. The African bees seem to be unable to build winter clusters like Europeans do. Therefor they cannot stand cold below -50 Celsius outside. Unfortunately I could not find out, if they would be able to overwinter at higher temperature without flying out for several months. That means that African bees should not be able to exist in cold regions, but I believe that they would survive in mediterranean climates, where they can fly out all the year and where strong frosts do not occur, like Southern Italy, Spain, Southern Greece, France and the hole African North coast. Kai-M. Engfer, Tel. 04347-8861 \| Ostlandstr. 1, http://insel.heim.at/mainau/330017 -|||8< D-24247 Mielkendorf /| ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:28:58 -0500 Reply-To: dublgully@worldnet.att.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Gaida Subject: Re: Help for a fellow beekeeper MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi everyone. This time I am asking for a favor. I mentioned Hubert 'Honey Bee' Martin once before. He is a 97 year old active beekeeper who has come to just about every one of our beekeeping meetings. He is an absolute wealth of information. And I love the man - he is a kind, gentle man. Mr Martin suffered a stroke recently. He is currently in a nursing home. I am taking him a radio/cd/cassette player today because his nurse said it may help in stimulation. I have some cassettes that are nature sounds and related. Here's the favor. Is anyone aware of any cassettes which have bee sounds and discussions, or just bee sounds on them? I would run up to our remaining ladies and record some, but we are in winter and there is not much noise. Or, if someone is in the midst of a busy season, is it possible to make such a tape? Or is there some USDA or other govt type organization that can make one or has one available? Mr. Martin never married and has no children. The ladies were his whole life. Since the age of 12. We aren't sure how much longer he has, but we are not letting him go lightly. Thanks, in advance, for your help. Judy ---- ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:53:17 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tom Speight Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 11 Jan 1999 to 12 Jan 1999 In-Reply-To: <916203720.2018199.0@uacsc2.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <916203720.2018199.0@uacsc2.albany.edu>, Automatic digest processor writes >I would suspect that mites are not like ticks, in that they need to feed >regularly. However, they are very mobile, and might well get back into >the hive. Why not use Dave's bottom board support (which is fully >enclosed, if I understand it right) and coat the inside of it with >vaseline (petroleum jelly) or some other similar product? The mites >would fall through the mesh below the hive, then be unable to get back >because of the greasy hive support and soon die off. Ants also would >not be able to get in because of the petroleum jelly. That's how the floors work in the UK. They stick on the petroleum jelly or a piece of fablon placed sticky side up. If the fablon is placed directly on the hive floor, with strong garden mesh, old QX or similar to hold it down, the bees do not stick to it but there is the chance of a bee inadvertently picking up a mite as it walks across. >From what I understand, mites can survive for about four days away from a host. The beekeeping suppliers sell sticky inserts ready marked off in one inch squares making it easier when counting the mite drop. -- Tom S ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:14:50 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Al Needham Subject: Pitfalls in Beekeeping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi: I am going to be doing a short lecture to aspiring beginning beekeepers at my Bee Club's Winter Beekeeping School on the above subject. I am certain I cannot cover all known or even common pitfalls. If any of you care to contribute on this subject, please send me your comments " privately " : awneedham@juno.com Thanks, Al Needham ................................................................... The BeeHive - Scituate, MA,USA All About Honey Bees & Beekeeping Beekeeping Books & Videos http://www.xensei.com/users/alwine ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:36:48 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Kai-M. Engfer" Subject: Scutellata in Germany MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT In the years 1993 and 1994 8 Scutellata Queen Bees have been brought to Northern Germany in order to observe their behaviour under temperated climate conditions of central Europe. The queen bees were introduced into European colonies in November of each year. They had been well accepted by the European colonies. The first Scutellata worker bees occured in March of the next year. The African bees rapidly built up strong colonies. In May, during the rape seed nectar flow, the colonies prepared for swarming, and indeed at least one swarm left the bee yard. The bees were rather aggressive: they turned very nervous when someone was standing in the near of the hives. I never was able to open a hive without a bee veil. After the inspections bees were following me more than 50 meters up to my house. They even tried to enter the house through doors and windows. A European bee colony was attacked by the African bees. It lost all its honey and finally died out through the fight with the Africans and lack of food. In August the African colonies were fed up with 20 kg sugar each in order to prepare them for winter. Everything looked well: the bees readily took the food and put it into the cells. The bees were very active and gathered much pollen from wild flowers and from maize. The colonies however died out during the first strong frost in December. The African bees seem to be unable to build winter clusters like Europeans do. Therefor they cannot stand cold below -5 degrees Celsius outside. Unfortunately I could not find out, if they would be able to overwinter at higher temperature without flying out for several months. That means that African bees should not be able to exist in cold regions, but I believe that they would survive in mediterranean climates, where they can fly out all the year and where strong frosts do not occur, like Southern Italy, Spain, Southern Greece, France and the hole African North coast. Kai-M. Engfer, Tel. 04347-8861 \| Ostlandstr. 1, http://insel.heim.at/mainau/330017 -|||8< D-24247 Mielkendorf /| ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:54:31 -0600 Reply-To: Luis Rommel Beutelspacher Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Luis Rommel Beutelspacher Subject: Drone colonies... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello All, I have read many times about how important the production of drones is for successful queen rearing. I have not found a source of information on how to set them up. How many mating nucs should I have per drone colony? I have also heard that it is a good idea to have drone colonies in the surroundings of your mating nuc apiary, how many? how far? There are just too many questions!!! How about drone congregation areas? I will appreciate any help. Thanks all! Greetings from Mexico. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Luis Rommel Beutelspacher (\ Maya Honey S.A. de C.V. -{|||8- Ticul, Yucatan, Mixico. (/ Tel/Fax (997) 20715 miel@finred.com.mx ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:33:50 -0500 Reply-To: info@beeworks.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Feeding Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 12 Jan 99, at 12:17, Computer Software Solutions L wrote: > Would it not then be advisable, to always overwinter on two brood > chambers, even if this meant allowing them access to only half of each > brood chamber by using a follower board?. > Looking back on my English beekeeping I often wonder why we never wintered on two deeps. Since keeping bees here in North America always on two and sometimes 3 deeps I find much bigger hives are the norm. With no restriction of follower boards they will expand to fill the boxes. A hive seems to grow to fill it's available space, plus surplus stores come the spring appears to stimulate earlier build up. ***************************************** The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada. Phone (705)326 7171 Fax (705)325 3461 David Eyre, Owner e-mail http://www.beeworks.com This months special:-Queen Rearing Equipment. **************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:33:50 -0500 Reply-To: info@beeworks.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Anti-Varroa Floors. Man with some answers? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 12 Jan 99, at 17:23, Aaron Morris wrote: > The long and the short of it from Ed was, open bottom boards are GREAT for > ventillation but he noticed no improvement regarding varroa. > > Aaron Morris - thinking no silver bullet here! Well at least I stirred some discussion on anti-varroa floors. Nice to see others agreeing with ventilation though. I am just trying to absorb a whole wack of data from a variety of sources regarding a variety of anti-varroa floors and at first look seems to be very promising, but as Aaron says perhaps not the siver bullet. Still my major concern is easy access to ants which seem to plague my yards. Still no discussion towards a scatter type of prevention. No comment on 'Comet'? ***************************************** The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada. Phone (705)326 7171 Fax (705)325 3461 David Eyre, Owner e-mail http://www.beeworks.com This months special:-Queen Rearing Equipment. **************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:33:50 -0500 Reply-To: info@beeworks.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Raising Queens in May MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 13 Jan 99, at 12:28, Sr. Monica Ryan wrote: > May'. To prepare the cell-building colony, a neighbour has told me to use > either an artificially swarmed colony or a boosted double chamber stock. > What do people of experience see as the advantages and disadvantages of > these methods? Over the years we have tried most methods of cell builders in all of the Queen breeder books. The overall best for cell builder we have found is a queenless one. Our method, today, remove the queen from a big 2 box hive along with some of the youngest open brood, ie make a small 3 frame nuc, to another part of the yard. Reduce the cell builder to one box, and add the graft frame complete with cell cups. Allows the bees to clean them, this is vital. Ideally add one frame of foundation, to give the wax builders something to do and prevents webs from being built between cells. Or alternatively add an empty shallow. Tomorrow use the cell cup frame, graft, add back to the cell builder. 48 hours later check graft for acceptance, shake bees off remaining frames one at a time and check "thoroughly" for emergency and other stray cells and "remove" them. Sounds easy? Took us years before we got it right, now we "occasionally" get 45 out of 45 accepted. ***************************************** The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada. Phone (705)326 7171 Fax (705)325 3461 David Eyre, Owner e-mail http://www.beeworks.com This months special:-Queen Rearing Equipment. **************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 19:05:35 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Almonds Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" This is a reworked post from the past, Jan 17, 1996 was the last time I posted it, its long as I did it. Many of the early posts to this list were long as we had yet to learn about writing in sound bytes so to speak. I am re posting it as its that time of year when a majority of the US commercial beekeeping industry is gathering their bees in California to pollinate the almond bloom and glean much needed operating cash for the coming season. It is hard to believe that over the years not much has changed to spite attacks by several flavors of mites, killer bees, and increased almond acreage, we still have a surplus of honeybees that are not rented. ALMONDS & BEEKEEPERS The highest price is paid for the smallest almonds, because they can be used in candy bars whole. Hershey Chocolate Company uses so many almonds in their candy that they actually built a factory in the heart of the almonds because the savings in freight alone would pay for the multi million dollar factory over the years. The heavier the bloom set the smaller the almonds. When this happens it takes several years for the trees to recover. In 1996 it is estimated that the beekeepers who supplied the bees for almond pollination received an average of $32.00 dollars for each hive provided for the almond bloom, that would add up to more then $25 million dollars cash flow to the beekeepers, which they spent for sugar, fuel, and in replacing bees for next years bloom. Only a few beekeepers if any at all could support themselves off the almond pollination rentals alone, and sadly most need the cash flow from the almonds to start the season in hopes of that big honey crop later on. About half the almonds produced are processed by one grower CO-OP called the Almond Growers Exchange. They at one time in the early days handled honey for beekeepers but failed in that effort and lost a lot of money for the beekeepers. A few years ago they also had to be stopped from selling one product they called "Almond Honnies" that listed artificial honey (sugar) in the ingredient statement, but contained NO (O%) honey. They do use a few drums of honey annually in a almond candy they manufacture for the Christmas trade and for their own retail stores. In total little honey is used in almond products in favor of cheep sugar and corn products. This is one area that the beekeepers could significantly increase the consumption of honey if the right pressure was applied like in the deal you can't turn down. "USE MY HONEY, or get NO BEES!" There is no doubts in my mind that this effort would made a new market for Chinese honey and have zero effect on beekeepers who pollinate almonds. The almonds are shook from the trees when dry and the hull or husk has split from the nut in the fall or late summer. They then are picked up and taken to a almond hulling plant that removes the dry outer hull (not shell). The hull is used for cattle feed if not too contaminated with farm chemicals. The nuts then can be dried if needed, and sent on for further processing which includes the removing of the wood shell. They shell is also used for fuel in products that are burned like BBQ briquets. The almonds are then graded and start the long manufacturing process which is mostly grading, sorting, and then slicing, dicing, blanching, grinding, packaging, and for a few hard shell almonds, bleaching the shells for those nice white shelled holiday almonds sold in the shell. The grower is paid for the weight of the meat of the nuts, size, quality, and how much damage has been done to the nut in handling to get it to the stage that it can be graded. Damage can include everything from the natural splitting of the nuts to insect damage. Nuts are also sold according to the varieties, the ones that produce the smaller nuts are worth more. In total it is a billion dollar industry with the potential to return a billion dollars to the growers which it has yet to do, but $800,000,000.00 (est.1998 farm crop 500 million pounds) is nothing to turn up one's noise at and will buy a lot of farm chemicals and fuel oil. As for the value of the almond bloom to the bees themselves. Because it is one of the early blooming plants in California, and for many beekeepers today the only early spring pasture they know, it is of course considered a good early spring build up food for bees. The truth is that until the almond growers started paying beekeepers to move into the almonds most beekeepers who lived adjacent to them would not go out of their way to place bees near any almond orchard. They had learned from experience that the almond bloom was pretty but not the ideal pasture for honeybees. Early day beekeepers who lived in the almond orchards would say its value was in the fact they could do their first bee inspection during the almond bloom and little else. Bees will find a better build up in California from boarder to boarder a month earlier or a month later from many different spring wild flowers and are not bound to the almond trees for spring build up. In fact in later years it was determined that almond pollen or nectar actually contains a natural sugar that will retard brood development because it is actually toxic to bees. This is the principal reason almond pollen piles up in the brood chamber during the almond bloom, (a sure sign to beekeepers it is a good pollen source, but actually it is not, and only because it is the only source is it considered good at all.) Queen breeders produce fewer cells during the almond bloom when almond pollen and nectar are their only sources. Almond pollen and or nectar does have a unknown attractor in the pollen/nectar that does attract the bees away for other flowers for a few hours each day, the short time it takes the bees to collect all the pollen and nectar from almond flowers only to return to other wild flowers if available. Sadly the farmers have taken to seeing bees on other flowers as a sign they are not working their almonds and for years have spent much time in preventing other flowers blooming during the almond bloom with chemicals and tractors. Much attention also has been paid to the dispersal of bees in the almonds, mostly because of grower concerns that they are providing bees for their neighbors. Several times research has been carried out to determine how the bees should be placed in the almonds. The placement in small groups as practiced today does not increase the almond yields at all and only makes more work for the beekeeper. Some beekeepers have found that to charge more for smaller groups of bees cures this problem but few growers allow truck loads in one spot which is all that is has been needed from day one as the bees disperse like water poured from a jug on a table top. The more water pored the farther the dispersal. No orchard has ever been found in California that bees could not be found during the bloom, yet many orchards do not have beehives in them. No factual information other then individual trees caged to keep bees out can be cited to show bees or bees in certain numbers are needed for almond pollination and this type of information has some real problems due to the influence of the cage on a tree that normally grows without that benefit. Almonds are cross pollinated between different parent trees grown in alternating rows. The bees must move the heavy pollen from the male parts of one verity to the female parts of another. Almond pollen is very heavy and is not dispersed by the wind. The flowers shed pollen in the late afternoon and are attractive to bees then and in the mornings. The bee collected almond pollen is very strange, and brakes down even when frozen. It will ferment very fast, and is bitter to the taste. The total amount that can be trapped from an acre of almonds is not that great even with the large numbers of blooms and trees per acre. They honey is also bitter and seldom gathered in surplus so as to be extracted by beekeepers. The best almond location are those that are adjacent to other flowers, other fruit crops, and along rivers lined with wild trees or in areas that have natural ground covers of mustard or other flowers. In good years the bees will swarm in the almonds without beekeeper care. NOT a problem the last few years in California. Almonds are a strange crop in that the market is dependent on world trade. Unlike honey the world price has always been high enough to support the industry in the US with the market off shore. The financial problems in Asia have had a detrimental effect and almond exports are down 23% and farm prices are down 15%.. All selling of almonds is regulated by law by a Almond Board that determines how much of the crop will be sold to whom for what uses and appears to be working to the growers advantage but not to the consumers as almonds are still a luxury food item for the average person in the US not unlike honey. Chow, the OLd Drone http://beenet.com (c)Permission is given to copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:33:50 -0500 Reply-To: info@beeworks.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Moving bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 12 Jan 99, at 13:40, Peter Dalby wrote: > Andrew &Tiffany need to move bees in winter. > I have done this on a number of occasions and not noticed any significant > harmful effect on the bees. If weather is cold the only preparation needed > for moving is to block entrances(I use strips of plastic foam). I have We had a laugh when we read this post, only because we're a bit jealous. Last Saturday we had to visit a yard to change a hive roof. Simple enough? Sure! First we had to get dressed in layers of clothing, enough so we could hardly bend over. Why? Well it was -22 Centigrade and a strong wind, and a wind chill of heaven knows what. A 3 mile drive over snow covered roads. Now on to our snow shoes and a climb over a farm gate, half buried in snow. A tramp over a snow covered field with a howling wind to find hives buried up to the top entrances and two feet of snow on the roofs. On the way back my glamorous assistant broke a binding, so it was dot and carry one all the way back. One foot on her snow shoe, one foot up to her thigh in deep snow. Move hives in the winter? No way! Leave them alone till spring. ***************************************** The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada. Phone (705)326 7171 Fax (705)325 3461 David Eyre, Owner e-mail http://www.beeworks.com This months special:-Queen Rearing Equipment. **************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:10:35 -0700 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Moving bees in Winter In-Reply-To: <15174069914795@systronix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Andrew &Tiffany need to move bees in winter. I have done this on a > number of occasions and not noticed any significant harmful effect on > the bees. ... One advantage of winter moves is that you can move > colonies short distances and they will not usually return to the > original site as they would when actively flying I've been following this thread and have to add that, although the matter has been exhaustively covered in the past, there have been some recent responses that are simply wrong and I appreciate this common sense post. FWIW, I have experienced no problem *whatsoever* moving bees in the winter over the twenty-five or so years that I have done so without *any* special attention or preparation. And I have moved bees as far as 500 miles in sub-freezing temps on an open truck in mid-winter. There are, naturally, some things to keep in mind. However, that applies spring, summer, fall -- or winter. For each season, there are different hazards to consider. Winter moves are the simplest, since the bees do not bother to come out very much at all and don't wander, and won't overheat unless you close them up (unecessary). Basically, all you need to know about winter moving is that it might not be wise to simply grab a hive at minus forty degrees and bump it around hard because the temperatures are so extreme that bees lost from the cluster, even for moments, have no chance of surviving. Since most people and vehicles are not functioning too comfortably themselves at those temperatures, the risk of such moves is not too great. Other than that, healthy bees are perfectly happy in their hives at temperatures around the freezing range to minus fifteen Celcius or so and will travel well without any closing or other prep. I suppose that if the entrances were placed so that cold 60 MPH winds were forced into the hive for hours at end, serious losses could ocur, so some prudence is advised. Banging, dropping hives in the snow and prolonged moves are probably not beneficial, nonetheless, I have had odd hives of bees on my truck for days at a time as I go from yard to yard in December at temperatures down to minus twenty Celcius without any apparent effect. We've dropped occasional hives and had to scoop bees from the snow back into the hive at minus 5 degrees or colder when the doubles came apart, and, yes, we did lose some individual bees, but this did not ever kill the hive or have a prolonged effect -- AFAIK. I have read that winter moves may increase tendency to nosema or increased food consumption, but frankly, I have never found this so obvious that I noticed it. We move hives any time we are comfortable to work ourselves and the bees seem to thrive. Just us common sense as far as jarring and wind exposure is concerned, and you'll be alright. Allen --- You can search the BEE-L archives by sending email to LISTSERV@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU saying SEARCH BEE-L "key phrase" Substitute several words for "key phrase" above. and use the double quotes to exclude hits on the individual words in the phrase. Single words do not need quotes. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:42:57 +0900 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Margulies Subject: hello from would be beekeeper In-Reply-To: <05101619819017@internode.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, I am new to this list and I have what may be a foolish question: My daughter is two and I would like to build a glass walled beehive into the wall of her room with the entrance outside. the question is twofold: ONE, are the bees going to object to the light from her room? Would the light upset their circadian rhythms? (I could use one-way mirrors if that is the case but the we lose detail) TWO, will the warmth of the room upset their hibernation in winter? Would double paned glass help enough? How about summer home in the wall and cold month home in the yard? TIA David ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 07:46:04 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Stefan Stangaciu Subject: Workshop Apitherapy for Beekeepers - Practical Aspects. Comments: To: Apither-L MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello dear "Apither" and "Bee" friends, With great joy I announce you that our proposal to make an workshop "Apitherapy for Beekeepers - Practical Aspects" at the next Apimondia Congress (Vancouver, Sept. 99) has been fully accepted by the Canadian organizers and included already in the program. This workshop will be held on Thursday, Sept. 16, in the evening, between 19.00 and 22.00 h. As you may noticed at the last Apimondia Congresses we have had a very good section of SCIENTIFIC apitherapy. Unfortunately, this section was "understandable" mainly by the medical doctors, biochemists, pharmacists or researchers which knows this very complex medical apitherapy "language". My intention, as main organizer of this workshop, is to offer all of you an easy to understand intensive "course" (3 hours only!) on what is really apitherapy and how can this method improve your family's health and mainly how can apitherapy increase your income. We will discuss at this workshop as many as possible PRACTICAL aspects of apitherapy. Here are some of them: * "where" and "how" to make an "Apitherapy Apiary"; * what are the best floral sources for health oriented bee products; * what are the (severe) conditions necessary to obtain "raw" bee products for medicinal use; * practical tips; * what are the usual final prices for such medicinal bee products; * how to cooperate with your local or international medical contacts (medical and naturopathic doctors, Heilpraktikern, doctors on osteopathy, doctors on chiropractic, acupuncturists etc., etc.) in order to sell better your products etc., etc. We will have at this workshop at least one hour of free discussions, so I hope it will be very interesting and useful for everybody. Before we will make the final program of this workshop (subjects, speakers etc.) I will very much appreciate your comments and suggestions. So, in your opinion, what should be the main topics of such an workshop? As I mentioned sometime before, I hope that EVERY beekeeper will become in time a very good specialist in apitherapy too, so please join our discussion on this subject! Friendly and respectfully yours, Stefan Stangaciu, MD, LAcup. Standing Commission of Apitherapy, Apimondia apither@gmb.ro www.sci.fi/~apither ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 10:18:36 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Drones and queen breeding MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Luis asks about drones for use in queen breeding. My queen breeding is very limited, only about 50 a year, but I have had a real interest in drones since Varroa hit us, and I will share what I know: - The "rule of thumb" used by queen breeders is that they want a minimum of 100 drones for each virgin queen. - Queen breeders figure that drone eggs must be laid approximately 40 days before they are needed. Therefore, if you are planning on 20 virgins flying on June 15, you must have at least 2,000 drone eggs laid by May 5. - To avoid inbreeding, it is best to produce your drones in a yard 1-2 kilometers away from the yard used for grafting. The idea is that these drones will saturate the nearby drone congregation areas, and the virgin queens will find those areas. - In Europe I have seen queen breeders use one frame of drone foundation per queenright hive, and use 5 queenright hives for every 100 virgins. I believe that comes to roughly 10,000 drones for every 100 virgins, or 100 drones per virgin. In the US, where drone foundation is not readily available, I have seen breeders cut away all but two inches (or so) of drawn foundation, and let the bees rebuild cells; which will all be drone size. Again, the breeder I know uses one such frame for every hive and five such hives for every 100 nucs to be stocked with virgins. While my queen rearing is very small, I used the above procedures last year and was pleased with the results. I hope these ideas help. Lloyd Email LloydSpear@msn.com Owner, Ross Rounds(tm), the finest in comb honey production. http://www.rossrounds.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 10:12:16 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Helen Meyer Subject: Using bobby pins to hold foundation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A few months ago there were a few postings about using bobby pins in the frames to hold new foundation. I wonder whether those who use it could provide some information on the kind (brand name, etc) of pin used and any sources. It sounds like these pins would be considerable cheaper than the pins from the bee supply houses. Do they work as well in the extractor? Thanks for your help. Helen Meyer Erin ON. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 10:06:40 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: Drones and queen breeding In-Reply-To: <199901141517.HAA04473@mx1.thegrid.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:18 AM 1/14/99 -0500, you wrote: >Luis asks about drones for use in queen breeding. My queen breeding is very >limited, only about 50 a year, but I have had a real interest in drones >since Varroa hit us, and I will share what I know: Hi Lloyd and Bee Friends, I believe in rearing queens on any scale there are things we can change and many more we can not. An example of what we can not change or don't fully understand is identifying drone congestion areas. Many bee keeper have never observed drone comets or seen and heard the actual mating of queens. The reason this is important is that these areas may be far distant from your apiary and in fact if this distance is great any drones you provide may be diluted by other's drones. This may be a God send or it could be bad. Some research from Europe is reporting that the more different drone lines a queen mates with the grater the possibility of resistance to bee pests and predators. Of course I would expect this to be in the next generations as our worker bees have no fathers just grandfathers, so it has been written so it must be true. What we can change and is missed by most bee keepers and many bee breeders is Stock Selection for Drones. Most beekeepers seem to realize that the selection of breeder queens is critical in improving stock and many make much effort in testing many queens to find that one breeder queen to use in grafting. I believe that the same effort should be spent in finding drone mother queens and some do make an effort but all should do more. All this genetic stuff seems to give me a head ache when I try to apply it to my bees so one way to get variability in my bees is to not use the same stock each year for breeding which sometimes means giving up the idea that the number one criteria for selecting stock, their visual appearance is forgotten every few years. Most bee breeders will not admit to this as if you are a Italian bee breeder you want nice yellow bees, drones and queens the same as if you are a Caucasian breeder you want black or dark bees, drones and queens. To cross them is blasphemy.. I am not saying this is bad, in fact I think it is good but the end user may need a different approach. If you are a beekeeper and not a bee breeder it is easy to change queen suppliers each season and requires only a small testing program to decide which one to use the following season or at the least one could change a large percentage each year based on your own testing program or even one of your neighbors. In this way your drones would mostly be from last years stock and some increase in genetic variability could be expected in this years bees and in the future. I feel that head ache coming on and thank God that for the most part we depend on what nature provides us and learn how to use it, the good and bad. It is far more important to have a young queen reared under good conditions at a point in time that the weather is good enough for her to mate with more then one drone, but if she is not available a natural queen will do just as well. Which reminds me of a sad experience. The story... I was busy making spring increase. I always made my divides ahead of receiving the queens and the weather had turned bad for mating queens in my suppliers area and I could not get any from my supplier but had a few hundred queen cells and maybe 25 caged mated queens so I put the queens in and I celled the rest of the divides until I ran out of cells. The only hives that made the cut were the 25 with caged queens and the one's I did not cell because the weather turned so poor for the queens from the cells did not mate but cleared up in time for the natural queens to mate. Does not matter how many drones you have if the weather is to cold for flying it makes no never mind. Chow, the OLd Drone http://beenet.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 15:09:04 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Al Needham Subject: Re: Using bobby pins to hold foundation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Thu, 14 Jan 1999 10:12:16 +0100 Helen Meyer writes: >A few months ago there were a few postings about using bobby pins in >the frames to hold new foundation. I wonder whether those who use it >could provide some information on the kind (brand name, etc) of pin used >and any sources. Just the regular ones you buy in your local five and ten cent store/CVS, or what have you. I would recommend the heavier duty long ones. No problem in an extractor that I know of if they are put in securely. Al ................................................................... The BeeHive - Scituate, MA,USA All About Honey Bees & Beekeeping Beekeeping Books & Videos http://www.xensei.com/users/alwine ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 08:06:27 PST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Re: Drones and queen breeding In-Reply-To: <199901141806.EAA14749@iccu5.ipswich.gil.com.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Andy wrote:- > Of course I would expect this to be in the next generations as our work= er > bees have no fathers just grandfathers, so it has been written so it = must > be true. I think Andy means drones and not workers. Workers have a father. > What we can change and is missed by most bee keepers and many bee breed= ers > is Stock Selection for Drones. Most beekeepers seem to realize that the > selection of breeder queens is critical in improving stock and many mak= e > much effort in testing many queens to find that one breeder queen to = use in > grafting. I believe that the same effort should be spent in finding dro= ne > mother queens and some do make an effort but all should do more. Beekeeping is one of the few animal industries where there is not a great= emphasis on the male line. Bulls, rams and stallions always command a = greater price compared to cows, ewes and mares. Maybe it is because bull= s and the like can be easily inspected and their progeny can be tested = for performance. With bees, there is no control over open mating so I = believe that the selection of drones has been overlooked. It is a bit = like the bull from next door coming over. Your get a calf so what. It is also worthy of note that not all "prize" bulls, rams or stallions = perform to expectation. Many end up in cans of pet food because they did= not produce the desired off spring. With our queen bees, most expect = that all will perform. In the same way that many horses brought as yearl= ings, which have been bred from the best genetic stock, never make it to = the race track so I believe it is for queen bees. Just nature at work. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 15:48:20 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: Re: Drones and queen breeding In-Reply-To: <199901142332.PAA18939@mx1.thegrid.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:06 AM 1/15/99 -0800, you wrote: >I think Andy means drones and not workers. Workers have a father. Yep, I am my own grandfather or something like that. Drones do have fathers, and can have many half brothers, anyway I am getting one of those genetic headaches. Drones develop from unfertilized eggs so their father is their grandfather but sometimes workers can also develop from unfertilized queens and once in a great while one of these workers can lay eggs. I know all this because of Ken Tucker one government research geneticist pounded it into my head on one of my visits with him at work and all I wanted was to look at his bees and he obliged by showing them to me. For a while I actually thought I understood about diploid's and the like but thank God I was able to compartmentalize it all and it did not stop me from working bees. Thanks for the correction. I know better and should have proof read it one more drink. Chow, Andy- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 17:51:14 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard E Leber Subject: Re: Using bobby pins to hold foundation Helen; I am a user of 'bobby pins' in both brood and honey super frames to straighten foundation the until the bees can draw the comb. These pins probably do not provide the strength of cross wiring the frames but, with the use of a radial extractor in the honey house the additional support in not necessary. To cut my 'cost' even further once the comb is completed I remove the bobby pins for use in the next new frame. My major source of supply is the bathroom counter where my wife does her hair, but only when she in not in the neighborhood. Sometimes I am forced to make the trip to the drug store, quick stop, grocery, K-Mart or Wal-Mart to buy a package of fifty for under a dollar. When I feel extravagant I'll spend a few pennies more and buy the larger size for longer hair. Richard & Nancy Leber Beekeeping and Honey Production Since 1987 Mobile, "Sweet Home Alabama" Ricks.Toy@juno.com On Thu, 14 Jan 1999 10:12:16 +0100 Helen Meyer writes: >A few months ago there were a few postings about using bobby pins in >the >frames to hold new foundation. I wonder whether those who use it could >provide some information on the kind (brand name, etc) of pin used and >any sources. ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:35:08 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Drones and queen breeding Comments: cc: ljfries@west.net, paulc@silcom.com, buchmann@TUCSON.ARS.AG.GOV, dbs8@psu.edu, lensky@agri.huji.ac.il, winston@sfu.ca, barthell@aix1.ucok.edu, rwthorp@ucdavis.edu, jjbmail@selway.umt.edu, DonovanB@crop.cri.nz, jinnah@river.netrover.com, wmangum@mwc.edu, mts@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu, joschmid@U.Arizona.EDU, haberl@zi.biologie.uni-muenchen.de, rdanka@asrr.arsusda.gov, cobey.1@OSU.EDU, spiva001@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU, Dadant@dadant.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" This message refers to the two recent postings on Bee-L by Andy Nachbauer (1/13/99:7:05 and 1/14/99:1006). The first of his extensive comments dealt with the problems of almond pollination. ************ I agree with Andy on most of the points he made. For example, I do not believe that one must scatter colonies throughout an orchard or a field for effective pollination. A careful study of the article I published in an AMERICAN BEE JOURNAL article last November (subject: recruitment to crops with respect to wind direction) can illustrate that point in two ways: 1) A yard of hives placed immediately upwind (i.e., with respect to prevailing wind direction) from a crop should prove very effective in pollinating the target crop. 2) A yard of hives located even several hundred meters (yards) downwind of the target crop could prove equally effective. ************ Andy's second posting alluded to the complexity encountered when one attempts to improve a strain of honey bees. We all know that queens mate many times in mid-air and thus can obtain a wide variation of genetic material from whatever drone mother colonies exist in the surrounding area. Some of us are fortunate and know where drone aggregations exist (even though the question of whether such aggregations exist was hotly debated a few decades ago ---another example of the vagaries of scientific research). To the point: a free mating of queens can prove a blessing in our present rather abominable set of circumstances. For instance, in our immediate metropolitan area (Santa Barbara, CA) we have had an impressive resurgence of feral colonies, despite the fact that we know of no beekeepers within this area. Somehow, these feral colonies have survived the varroa mite onslaught --- as witnessed today, when I found that a new swarm had moved into a cavity in the base of an olive tree (downtown Santa Barbara, corner of Olive and Haley Streets) within the past week, a cavity repeatedly occupied these past few years. To repeat: We apparently have no beekeepers in this rather vast area (from the ocean to the top of the mountain range), beekeepers that keep their colonies alive with Apistan strips. Yet, we now have a great many really viable feral colonies in this area, colonies (collectively) that cast out swarms regularly. If I were a beekeeper in this area, I would raise my own queens --- primarily by making colony splits --- and hope that the virgin queens so produced would mate with the plentiful number of drones emitting from the various feral colonies in this area. And, no, I would not want the virgin queens from my colonies mating with drones that have cruised forth from many managed bee colonies some distance remote from this area. Those drones would have come from colonies kept alive with the use of Apistan strips (a weak strain of bees, so to speak). Yes, you might recognize the above statements as a bit harsh. On the other hand, that is how Nature operates. Apparently, colonies that survive without undue human interference might well be our best hope for the future. Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 963-8508 (home phone) 967 Garcia Road (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 **************************************************************************** ********** * * * "The flaws of a theory never lead to is rejection....Scientists tolerate * * theories that can easily be demonstrated to be inadequate." * * * * Carl Lindegren, 1966 * **************************************************************************** ********** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 14:10:54 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Buck Rut Subject: Purchasing Queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Greetings all, After spending 2 hours checking BEE-L List archives, I was still unable to find the answer to the question that I tried to post earlier. Hopefully, I will get posted this time. I am looking for the name of anyone who may be rearing black German or "Old World German" bees. The president of our local association is looking to purchase some. He purchased a few a few years ago, but cant remember who he got them from. He would like to purchase a few again. If anyone knows where we could get our hands on some, you can e mail the information to me at: buck_n_rut@yahoo.com. Also, if you have an idea of price, that would be appreciated. Thanks Scott Moser _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 17:11:56 -0700 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Drones and queen breeding In-Reply-To: <23332606420902@systronix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Beekeeping is one of the few animal industries where there is not a > great emphasis on the male line. Bulls, rams and stallions always > command a greater price compared to cows, ewes and mares. Maybe it is > because bull s and the like can be easily inspected and their progeny > can be tested for performance. Maybe the reason drones don't sell for thousands of dollars is that once they are bred, that's it :) Allen