From MAILER-DAEMON Fri Sep 17 12:52:08 1999 Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27256 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:52:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA11045 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:51:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199909171651.MAA11045@listserv.albany.edu> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:51:58 -0400 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8d)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG9902A" To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Content-Length: 148911 Lines: 3580 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 23:21:54 +0000 Reply-To: pkoski@muse.sfusd.k12.ca.us Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Paul Koski Organization: Geo. Washington High School Subject: Hives in Cedar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A member of San Francisco Beekeepers is a gardener with the city and reports there are several feral hives in Golden Gate Park that seem to do fine and even thrive (swarm). The hives are in cedar or cypress trees. Does anyone know of any studies or have info on possible natural protection from varroa provided by hives locating in such trees? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 06:47:17 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: BEE-L Guidelines (Monthly Reminder) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Since BEE-L has been a moderated list it has become aparant that there are 6 catagories of inappropriate postings which result in the submission being returned to the sender. Those catagories are listed below, followed by the short rejection notice that may be returned to sender. 1. Excessive Quoting: Your post to BEE-L is being returned beacuse it contains an entire quote of a previous submission. Excessive quoting clutters up the BEE-L archives and is considered bad nettiquite. Please edit the quoted material so that it only includes that which is pertinent to the point you are making and resubmit your article. Thank you for helping to make BEE-L a better list. 2. Article submitted as an HTML document. Your submission to BEE-L was rejected because it was sent as an HTML document. Please if you will, resend your post as "text only" Thank you for your continued participation on BEE-L. 3. Personal response sent to the entire list Your recent submission to BEE-L is being returned to you as it is a personal response to a previous post. Your response should be sent to the author of the previously posted material. Thank you for your continued participation on BEE-L. 4. File Attachments not allowed Your submission to BEE-L was rejected because it contains a file attachment of unknown type that: a. may not be readable by all mailers b. adds nothing to the content of your post. Please if you will, resubmit your post without the attachment. Thanks you for your continued participation on BEE-L. 5. Service request sent to the list rather than the server Your submission to BEE-L is being returned to you because it is a request for service which should be sent to the server (LISTSERV@cnsibm.albany.edu), not the list (BEE-L@cnsibm.albany.edu). 6. Off Topic Your submission to BEE-L has been rejected because it is not related to the 'Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology'. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 04:34:56 -0700 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Tips For Visiting Bee Websites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT In visiting bee-related websites, I find many, like my own, are heavy with graphics. This means that it takes a while to load each page. There are ways to deal with this painlessly and turn the WWW (World Wide Wait) back into the World Wide Web without having to have a cable or other high speed connection. I'll offer a few here... 1.) Use the power of Windows (r) to run several copies of your browser window at once and read one page while another fills in in the background. Then kill the current page and read the next. (Don't keep too many open once you are done with them. Windows (r) will break down and you'll have to reboot. Experience will show what your individual system can stand. Once visited, pages will stay in your history and open quickly from a local cached version the next time you visit. More on that below). Some sites (mine, for example) open a new window for you if you are running an up-to-date browser like MS Internet Explorer 4 (MSIE4) or better or Netscape 4 or better (see note). I personally often have ten to twenty windows open and loading, along with my editor, my mail software, etc. I'm currently using a PII 266 Hhz / 64 Meg, but even an older, smaller computer (386, Windows 3.1 & 4 Megs) can run two windows at once. To open a new window for a new link, simply hold down 'Shift' when clicking a link or right click the link and select 'open link in a new window'. A new window will pop up. Many people find this disconcerting, but it is easy to deal with; simply press and hold 'Alt' and touch 'Tab' once to switch back to the original window, or use the task bar to switch active windows if you prefer. 2.) If you have lots of disk space (new computer) go to the options menu in your browser and set you history and cache options to the maximum you think reasonable. Three months and 25% of your disk is not at all out of line, and will make re-visiting pages much easier and faster. You can set this down to lower levels late, if you find you are running out of space on your HD. 3.) Use a new browser like MSIE 5 that uses subscriptions and allows pages be read offline. Simply 'subscribe' to the sites you want to examine and then update them when you are busy with something else. Note: Be advised that many ISPs distribute old, feature-poor versions of browsers, simply because they are small enough to fit on one disk. If you have, or suspect you have, an old version, go to the bowser's home by clicking on the revolving globe icon in the upper right corner of MSIE or the animated "N" in Netscape. Then download an up-to-date version. Plan to do this around bedtime or when you are not going to need your phone for a while :). A good browser is ten megs or more and will take an hour at minimum to download. Often the FTP site is very busy -- especially when a new version is announced -- and transfer rates can be much slower than expected. Sometimes downloads repeatedly fail, and the only solution is try and try again. Often waiting a day or two helps. Patience helps... And don't think it is only happening to you. Download the basic browser first, then -- once it is installed -- go back for Netmeeting, chat, or whatever other bells & whistles you want. Trying to get too much at once will cause increased risk of failure. Hope this is news to some on the list and increases your enjoyment of all the wonderful bee pages out there. My main site is at http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/ Allen "If I make a living off it, that's great--but I come from a culture where you're valued not so much by what you acquire but by what you give away," -- Larry Wall (the inventor of Perl) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 17:39:46 -0700 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Alternative Varroa Treatment References MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT This from: Stefan Stangaciu, MD, LAcup. Constanta, Romania apither@gmb.ro ...Some of you asked me for references on alternative therapies against varroa. Below you will find only a few of them. If you will be willing to really study these new methods you will find them! If you will stay ONLY with "Apistan & Co" you will probably lose... Here are ONLY FEW references. I hope the French titles will not be a big problem for you to translate. Use "Altavista" IF necessary. oooooooooooooooooooooooo - Prof. Scott Daniels, Acadia University 11/97 : Travaux sur l'utilisation d'un ivaporateur d'acide formique. - Diffirents travaux prisentis ` l'ESA Annual Meeting 12/97 (Entomological Society of America), entre autres ceux de Lindberg, Melathopolos, Winston & Smith sur l'action miticide de diffirentes huiles organiques. - Hans Ulrich Thomas (Zurich, CH) coll. Federal Bee Research Lab (Leibefeld) : Travaux sur les mithodes de contrtle organique de Varroa. - Dr Frank A. Eischen, entomologiste USDA Agricultural Research Service (Weslasco) qui a testi l'action sur Varroa de la fumie de 40 plantes diffirentes, avec des risultats extrjmement efficaces pour certaines d'entre elles. Publii dans Agricultural Research Magazine ao{t 97 sous le titre "Smoking out bee mites". - Wescott & Winston : Sublethal effect of acaricides, menthol and formic acid, on honey bee development and honey production. - Harbo John : Destruction du Varroa par la chaleur, Agricultural Research Service, report number 70080 approved 01/05/96. - Feldlaufer, Kochansky & Shimanuk : The use of sterol inhibitor to control the greater moth galleria mellonella. Agricultural Research Service. - Feldlaufer & Hartfelder, Agricultural Research Service report 72488 approved 05/08/96. Travaux sur l'usage des sterols sur varroa. - Dr Ingemar Fries, Bee Division of the Swedish University of Agriculture, Uppsala, Sweden : Use of organic acids against varroa - Dr. Pedro Rodriguez ( dronebee@norfolk.infi.net ): Research and findings on food grade mineral oil... - Medhat E. Nasr, PhD.: Development of a safe method for applying formic acid to control bee mites in honey bees colonies. Canadian Beekeeping, Spring 1995 (vol. 18, No 7). - *** An alternative, Single Application Formic Acid Mite Control Method: Bee Scene, vol. 13, # 2, March 1997. - Alida Janmaat, Department of Biology, Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, BC: How Does Pollen Stress Affect a Varroa Mite Infestation. Bee sCene, vol. 13, # 2, March 1997. - Edward Southwick: Mite Resistance: Active Defense by Honey Bees. Bee sCene, vol. 9, # 1, January 1993. - James Amrine, Terry Stasny and Robert Skidmore, University of West Virginia: Using Essential Oils for Varroa Control. Bee Scene, vol. 13, # 1, 1997. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 23:03:13 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Stefan Stangaciu Subject: Varroa, human cancer and alternative theraoies. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi there, Our discussion related to alternative treatments against varroa is step by step full of surprises for me. At the beginning I wanted to discuss with you about "new" ideas, "new" principles, to give you reasons to think in a more flexible way. What I've got from some of you: nervous answers, ironies, irritability. It's possible that my way to explain my opinions -on this GLOBAL problem, which affects ALL of us- was not either very "diplomatic"; also, my English is not perfect so... there are several reasons why some of us are now in disharmony. The problem being so important for all of us, I would like to give you more "food" for your thoughts. So... * varroa "disease" has many similarities with the human cancers: - it comes usually slowly; - it gives only few signs (symptoms), if any; - it is usually aggravated by cold, lack of blood flow in the affected areas; - it is improved by warmness and enough blood flow having enough oxygen and nutrients; - it comes easier to depressed persons, having a weak immune/deffense system etc., etc. * how does the "classical" doctors treat this very complex disease? By "cuttings" (surgery), "burning" (radiotherapy) and "poisoning" (chemotherapy)... General rate of success: 8%... * how does the "classical" beekeepers treat varroa? Mainly by trying to poison this dangerous parasite. Results: in some areas 50-100% good results, in other areas 0 (zero) results; are these "0" areas diminishing in size? NO, they are increasing!!! Shall we stay with stubbornness in applying ONLY this "chemotherapy" for our "cancerous" hives even if we see our "neighbours" dying of the SAME disease, by applying the SAME chemical treatment? What I'm trying to tell you here, my friends, is that there are many other methods to PREVENT and TREAT this "cancer" and we do not need in these, I dare to say, dramatic times, to stay in a passive, "conservative" waiting... In the alternative (natural) medicine, the human cancer is treated mainly with: * stimulation of the immune system; * improving the blood's: a) flow; b) level of oxygen; c) temperature; d) quality (more nutrients, anti-oxydants, vitamins etc.); * decreasing the depression related factors, as much as possible; * detoxifying the body etc., etc. Almost none of the above methods (except the one with breeding new races of varroa resistant bees) are applied actually in the "classical" beekeeping. As I said several times, if we shall apply the alternative methods in fighting the varroa "cancer" we will have much better chances of success. Some more thoughts... * the aromatherapy of varroa disease depends, like ANY other therapy (included the obsolete "apistanotherapy") to the DOSE of the applied active compounds; * of course that if you will give TOO MUCH from a natural product (see here the essential oils or the organic acids), you will have poor results; * yes, there are experiments which shows that the essential oils can destroy up to 90% of the varroa population and so much from the bee population, but these results came because those researchers didn't reach YET the best applying method and dosage; but, believe me my friends, there are already MANY people which found the answer... * I sent you recently, just as an amateur in beekeeping, 11 (eleven!) alternative methods useful more or less in the treatments against varroa; I found many reports related to most of the above 11 methods just by reading e-mails from other beekeeping lists (like "Abeilles"), by reading beekeeping magazine articles (especially "Bee sCene" from Canada) and by speaking PERSONALLY with MANY "alternative", "ecological" beekeepers from United States, Germany, Canada. * Varroa disease being a very complex disease, it requires a very complex treatment too; here I agree that the simple aromatherapy with only 1-2 essential oils may not be enough, but if we will apply as many as possible from that 11 mentioned alternative methods, we will have, FOR SURE, better results. This is not only my opinion, but the general opinion of thousands of other people/beekeepers/researchers from all over the world... I do not wish to continue the polemic with my last "friends" just because I have other, better, things to do. So, I am not willing to waste my time and energy in trying to convince some of you that a new era will come in beekeeping too, like in human medicine. Before I will close (from my side) this discussion, please let me give you, dear "friends" only one advise: Before you give any opinion about a new method, concept or principle try to study it carefully! Sincerely yours, Stefan Stangaciu, MD, LAcup. Constanta, Romania apither@gmb.ro PS Some of you asked me for references on alternative therapies against varroa. Below you will find only a few of them. If you will be willing to really study these new methods you will find them! If you will stay ONLY with "Apistan & Co" you will probably lose... Here are ONLY FEW references. I hope the French titles will not be a big problem for you to translate. Use "Altavista" IF necessary. oooooooooooooooooooooooo - Prof. Scott Daniels, Acadia University 11/97 : Travaux sur l'utilisation d'un ivaporateur d'acide formique. - Diffirents travaux prisentis ` l'ESA Annual Meeting 12/97 (Entomological Society of America), entre autres ceux de Lindberg, Melathopolos, Winston & Smith sur l'action miticide de diffirentes huiles organiques. - Hans Ulrich Thomas (Zurich, CH) coll. Federal Bee Research Lab (Leibefeld) : Travaux sur les mithodes de contrtle organique de Varroa. - Dr Frank A. Eischen, entomologiste USDA Agricultural Research Service (Weslasco) qui a testi l'action sur Varroa de la fumie de 40 plantes diffirentes, avec des risultats extrjmement efficaces pour certaines d'entre elles. Publii dans Agricultural Research Magazine ao{t 97 sous le titre "Smoking out bee mites". - Wescott & Winston : Sublethal effect of acaricides, menthol and formic acid, on honey bee development and honey production. - Harbo John : Destruction du Varroa par la chaleur, Agricultural Research Service, report number 70080 approved 01/05/96. - Feldlaufer, Kochansky & Shimanuk : The use of sterol inhibitor to control the greater moth galleria mellonella. Agricultural Research Service. - Feldlaufer & Hartfelder, Agricultural Research Service report 72488 approved 05/08/96. Travaux sur l'usage des sterols sur varroa. - Dr Ingemar Fries, Bee Division of the Swedish University of Agriculture, Uppsala, Sweden : Use of organic acids against varroa - Dr. Pedro Rodriguez ( dronebee@norfolk.infi.net ): Research and findings on food grade mineral oil... - Medhat E. Nasr, PhD.: Development of a safe method for applying formic acid to control bee mites in honey bees colonies. Canadian Beekeeping, Spring 1995 (vol. 18, No 7). - *** An alternative, Single Application Formic Acid Mite Control Method: Bee Scene, vol. 13, # 2, March 1997. - Alida Janmaat, Department of Biology, Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, BC: How Does Pollen Stress Affect a Varroa Mite Infestation. Bee sCene, vol. 13, # 2, March 1997. - Edward Southwick: Mite Resistance: Active Defense by Honey Bees. Bee sCene, vol. 9, # 1, January 1993. - James Amrine, Terry Stasny and Robert Skidmore, University of West Virginia: Using Essential Oils for Varroa Control. Bee Scene, vol. 13, # 1, 1997. - - ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 20:51:00 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Paul Nicholson Subject: Re: Propolis effects. In-Reply-To: <199901311051.CAA04566@alto1.altonet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 9:51 +0100 1/31/99, Stefan Stangaciu wrote: > Hi all, > > There are over 70 proven pharmacological effects given >by propolis, as a raw product and/or as an (alcohol) extract >(tincture) or butter extract. Proven by who using what sort of scientific methodology? Also, how may of these effect are positive and how many are negative? > The taste is not exceptional (it can be "corrected" with >honey), sometimes it may give adverse reactions (like >diarrhea...), but thanks to its large spectrum properties, >propolis is really the hive's "green-brown" gold. I find it hard to belive that a substance gathered and created by the bees to serve as a caulking compund could be so beneficial. Your argument smells of the - if it's natural it's good, if it's manmade it's bad - philosopy. Thing aren't that simple. > If you need more medical references on the "properties" >or on how to make "home preparations" for your own family >health, please let me know. Regards, Paul ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 19:33:52 +0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: bee club Subject: Re: how long bees can retain information? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > After three months bees still congregated there >looking for water. Curious, isn't it? Could/can/do they pass >on location information between generations? Hi Beekeepers! I just wondered if when the faucet was still leaking they took some young bees along with them and they got so used of going there and so after the leak got fixed they kept on going there and they took other young bees with them and kept on doing that(maybe they went there by habit training). Just a thought. Justin Knight Age 14 Hong Kong ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 08:13:15 -0500 Reply-To: info@beeworks.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Bee Kills in USA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 31 Jan 99, at 10:17, John Valentine wrote: > several hundred feet away the next day. And for two days whenever we left > the house, we and the dogs were under attack. I moved the hive out into > the woods "at night" and while wearing two bee suits I requeened it a week > later. I usually don't wear protective clothing, just shorts and > tee-shirt; tee-shirt optional. These mean/nasty Bees also had three times > the honey stores as the rest of my hives. Further on this note we had a number of hives that went 'bad' on us, more honey than all the rest, But here's the point. Varroa hit us late last summer, came in with these angry hives. They were out robbing other hives, got more honey, but got enough Varroa to kill them all. Yet hives just next door had hardly any infestation. I'm pretty much convinced angry hives are robbers and the only reason they get more honey is because they steal it! Has anyone noticed an increase in angry bees in the last couple of years? It seems when I was younger that angry hives weren't as common as these days. ***************************************** The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada.L3V 6H1. Phone (705)326 7171 Fax (705)325 3461 David Eyre, Owner e-mail http://www.beeworks.com This months special:-Queen Rearing Equipment. **************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 08:13:15 -0500 Reply-To: info@beeworks.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Risk involved with old combs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 31 Jan 99, at 14:06, Ernest Gregoire wrote: > What can we expect from older combs in the future? > I am told the Apistan build up in wax is a problem. > Could this build up be contributing to the resistance > of mites to Apistan? Not sure about resistance, but there is word of brood problems in Europe where sustained use of Fluvalinate is getting into the wax. Seems it's getting more of a problem to find wax not contaminated suitable for pharmaceutical use. Plus there was talk of sexually immature drones, caused by consistant use. Major headache for queen breeders. ***************************************** The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada.L3V 6H1. Phone (705)326 7171 Fax (705)325 3461 David Eyre, Owner e-mail http://www.beeworks.com This months special:-Queen Rearing Equipment. **************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 09:08:34 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Top Ten Web Pages MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Only TEN?!?! Reducing my beekeeping bookmarks to the "best" I still have more than ten. Categories would make it easier. Photovault contains the largest collection of bee pictures I've ever found at one site, but the URL is WAY, WAY, WAY too long! I'll leave it to the judges (whoever they bee) to whittle the list down further. Aaron Morris - thinking ten is not enough! http://apicultureNE.cas.psu.edu/ http://biology.dbs.umt.edu/bees/default.htm http://gears.tucson.ars.ag.gov/ http://home.earthlink.net/~jcaldeira/beekeeping/ http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html http://www.beekeeping.co.nz/ http://www.birkey.com/BLB/Beekeeping/index.html http://www.cardiff.ac.uk/ibra/index.html http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee/ http://www.gsu.edu/~biojdsx/main.htm http://www.ifas.ufl.edu/~mts/apishtm/apis.htm http://www.internode.net/honeybee/ http://www.photovault.com/Link/OrdersEntomologyInsects/BeesHymenoptera/OEBVolum http://www-mugc.cc.monash.edu.au/~degob1/goble/KiBees/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 08:45:41 -0700 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: ObservationHives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT A number from the list have written to ask for the observation hive links, so I thought that I'd better post them. Here's a few: http://www.birkey.com/BLB/Beekeeping/obsrhive.html http://home.earthlink.net/~jcaldeira/beekeeping/obs1.htm http://www.gsu.edu/~biojdsx/obshiv.htm http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/ob_kast2bk.html Allen ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 11:21:52 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Roger Flanders Subject: "Evergreen" Sweet Clover? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I recently received material from a seed company in Minnesota, USA, offering "Evergreen white blossom sweet clover...long considered one of the finest quality and highest producers of honey for use by bee keepers." According to the flyer, "Evergreen sweet clover was developed a number of years ago by the Department of Agronomy at Ohio State University for use by bee keepers...is extremely tall (6-10 feet), and flowers from the bottom of the plant to the top over a long period allowing bees to work this pure white blossom sweet clover for 6-8 weeks, or longer in some cases." Has anyone on the List had any personal experience with "Evergreen" clover as a nectar source? Also, since most sweet clovers are biennials, could I expect this plant to re-seed itself in year 3, and beyond? (I live in southeast Nebraska, USA; USDA region 5.) --Rog Flanders ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:34:51 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: A honey bee never forgets! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Matthew asked, > Does anyone know how long bees can retain information? This is a good question! I don't remember which conference it was where I heard what researched talk about his latest work where he was trying to figure out how to get bees to FORGET! Background is that bees imprint on a certain flower, say clover for instance. It the blooming period for that flower ends, the bees remain imprinted on the clover and do not move on to a more productive (higher/better yielding nectar source). The researcher was trying to learn how he could make the bees forget about clover and refocus on a different source. So anyway, what was the original question? I don't remember! Aaron Morris - thinking my memory is going!!! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 11:23:35 -0700 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: how long bees can retain information? In-Reply-To: <02463659914476@systronix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT >... After three months bees still congregated there > looking for water. Curious, isn't it? Could/can/do they pass > on location information between generations? Allen Latham speculated on the existence of 'control bees', special bees that looked just like all the others, but which made the decisions for the hive, perhaps had a longer lifespan, and somehow maintained a 'hive mind'. There are mysterious, inexplicable things that anyone who spends time with bees will observe, things which may not be repeatable. As for erasing some kinds of bee memory, I heard somewhere that exposure to high doses of CO2 will do that. Allen ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:12:54 -0500 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Organization: ACB Dept., Univ of Michigan Subject: Re: A honey bee never forgets! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Actually, there is one circumstance where honey bees forget very readily, which is when they swarm. I have always been amazed that bees will totally wipe the memory of their former home from their consciousness, and take up residence in a hive set up right next door. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:03:10 -0600 Reply-To: Luis Rommel Beutelspacher Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Luis Rommel Beutelspacher Subject: Crisco MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello all, I have read about the terramycin extender patties made of (for two 1/2 pound patties): Mix 1/3 pund of vegetable shortening (CRISCO) with 2/3 pound granulated sugar. Add two tablespoons of TM25 to the mixture. I have no idea of what vegetable shortening is, or Crisco, never heard about them (sorry, we speak spanish here). I will appreciatte any help, do any of you know the name for this products in spanish? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Luis Rommel Beutelspacher (\ Maya Honey S.A. de C.V. -{|||8- Ticul, Yucatan, Mixico. (/ Tel/Fax (997) 20715 miel@finred.com.mx ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:06:22 -0600 Reply-To: Luis Rommel Beutelspacher Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Luis Rommel Beutelspacher Subject: Mating nucs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit What kind of mating nucs are most used by commercial breeders? I am setting up two mating yards with 150 mating nucs each and I am planning to use normal size frames, so I think I will use a standard box divided in three sections, then I will have three 3 frame nucs in the same box. Any comments? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Luis Rommel Beutelspacher (\ Maya Honey S.A. de C.V. -{|||8- Ticul, Yucatan, Mixico. (/ Tel/Fax (997) 20715 miel@finred.com.mx ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 15:30:19 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Partin Subject: Re: A honey bee never forgets! In-Reply-To: Aaron Morris 's message of Mon, 1 Feb 1999 12:34:51 EST Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) I disagree with the inprint part because of what our bees do here in Florida USA. Some where around the first of May our galberry flow starts and befor the galberry gets threw blooming the palmetto starts and the only way you know this happens is the wax turns color. The bees don't seem to miss a beat they just switch over to the palmetto and keep on truckin. Some years there is a break in between the two flows but not ever year. BUD ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 23:48:13 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Queen mating from desired drones Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello All When reading 'A Manual of Beekeeping' by E.B. Wedmore, I came across the following paragraphs. '176. Provided there are potent drones living in the colony from which the mating flight takes place, there is a high probability (some say 95 in 100) that the queen will mate with one of those drones. Never, therefore, let a queen fly for mating from a colony having drones of undesirable parentage. Either destroy all such drones and advanced drone brood before inserting a queen cell, shaking in some recently emerged drones of desirable origin. If this critical matter does not receive attention there is no knowing with what kind of drone the queen will mate, but if it does receive attention, the large majority of queens will be mated as desired. The method is more sure than any attempt to flood your district with selected drones, unless your location is exceptionally isolated from neighbouring apiaries and wild stocks.' The above appears to solve one of the greatest problems in beekeeping, namely the hit and miss normally occurring with queen mating, except in isolated areas. I would however like to know where the above system stands with relation to Drone Congregation Areas, where I understood (until now), all fertilisation of queens takes place, and that outside these areas, the drones show little if any interest in a queen. It would seem to me that no matter how many drones left the mating hive with the queen, their presence would be diluted to insignificance by the greater number of drones in the congregation area. If the above system can be used, it would appear to rule out tiny mating nucs since they most likely could not support the necessary drones. I shall be most grateful to read comments from the members of the list. Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland Hobbyist beekeeper e mail cssl@iol.ie Tel + 353 1 289 5269 Fax + 353 1 289 9940 Latitude 53 Degrees 16' North Longitude 6 Degrees 9' West of Greenwich ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 23:09:34 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: JohnBee Subject: Bumblebee nest in roof MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David & Al > >serious attempts to hive ... understand that bumbles are >superior pollinators vis-a-vis honey bees. > >I "think" that there has been some serious attempts along the >same lines elsewhere in the past. Anyone know any more >about this ? > "Portable" bumble bee colonies are widely used in Europe for pollination of tomato crops grown in glasshouses. I believe the bumble Queen is given a number of honey bee workers and food stores initially, in order to let her get on with laying bumble eggs instead of foraging, as would happen in the wild. The details are regarded as a trade secret by the company which markets the bumble colonies for this purpose. I think the system originated in Holland; it would be interesting if anyone has more details. John Burgess, Editor Gwenynwyr Cymru, The Welsh Beekeeper ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:21:10 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: drying of nectar Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Peter Hutton wrote (in partial response to Stan Sandler's query): >Your information is in part right, there is perhaps some omission. Bees collect >nectar nectar from flowers, sucrose and some other sugars, water content >varies, some researchers report from 40%-80%. Foraging Bees add invertase to >convert sucrose to fructose and glucose on return journey to hive. Regurgitates >nectar to hive bees who ingest and regurgitate, hold droplets in proboscis and >eventually paste onto cell walls. In each movement water is extracted or >evaporated. I personally would not call nectar thick, it is very aqueous in my >opinion, ripe honey is better described as thick. (dense, viscous) We used to call such a process "ripening," a term now seldom used. Peter is correct, though, as one can find in THE HIVE AND THE HONEY BEE (1992 edition: pp. 92,93). One can also consult the alphabetical listing (Nectar, Conversion to Honey) in the ABC AND XYZ OF BEE CULTURE (1990 edition: pp. 329,330). Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 963-8508 (home phone) 967 Garcia Road (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 **************************************************************************** ********** * * "The flaws of a theory never lead to is rejection....Scientists tolerate * theories that can easily be demonstrated to be inadequate." * * Carl Lindegren, 1966 **************************************************************************** ********** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 19:29:57 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Christopher Slade Subject: Re: Alternative methods against bees diseases Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit This is a fascinating thread and I hope it will run for a while longer. There is an obvious conflict between those who get their living directly from bees and have their family to feed and workers and bills to pay NOW and we amateurs who have the luxury of a long term view. The professionals can do their sums and add the cost of labour to the cost of chemical treatments and keep their fingers crossed with regard to residue build up, resistance to the chemicals they are using and the reputation of honey as a wholesome product. The majority of such contributors to the list opt for the chemical option and who can blame them. However, I am sure that they nearly all would agree that selection of the bees for resistance to disease ( and it is mainly Varroa and its associated problems that I have in mind) is the best option long term. The problem is that the more efficient the chemical treatment the less "incentive" for the bees to select a resistant strain and the greater incentive for the mite to do so. The efficacy of chemicals can probably be prolonged by alternating between different chemical treatments that are available (in some countries only) but there is still no selective pressure on the bees. It seems to me that if we all adopt the least efficient method that we, depending on our circumstances, and enough of our bees can live with, the sooner varroa tolerant strains of bees will emerge. At the same time, of course, the Varroa mite will also be suffering from selection pressure. At the moment it is an inefficient parasite in that it kills its host. If enough inefficient beekeepers manage to stay in the game for long enough the mite should evolve to be a more efficient parasite that nobody notices. Bees must have been challenged with varroa in Stefan's country for most of his 39 years. Romanians have not yet achieved a world wide reputation for being efficient beekeepers. It would be interesting to learn Stefan's methods of varroa control and those of his local colleagues and whether any signs of resistance of bees to varroa mites is emerging. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 22:18:50 -0500 Reply-To: info@beeworks.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Mating nucs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 1 Feb 99, at 13:06, Luis Rommel Beutelspacher wrote: > What kind of mating nucs are most used by commercial breeders? I am > setting up two mating yards with 150 mating nucs each and I am planning to > use normal size frames, so I think I will use a standard box divided in > three sections, then I will have three 3 frame nucs in the same box. > It took us a little time to reject full sized frame nucs. Young newly mated queens can RUN, even without smoke. You'll spend more time chasing those little ladies around a big box than anything else. In my opinion half a mid sized frame either 4 or 5 frames would be ideal. We use a 6" X 6" frame box, 4 frames plus an internal feeder, they work a treat. Real quick when finding queens. ***************************************** The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada.L3V 6H1. Phone (705)326 7171 Fax (705)325 3461 David Eyre, Owner e-mail http://www.beeworks.com This months special:-Queen Rearing Equipment. **************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 19:40:27 -0600 Reply-To: cspacek@flash.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Curtis Spacek Subject: Re: requeening of broodless colonies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit if you believe a hive is queenless simply install a frame of young larvae and unhatched eggs in the hive.If they need a queen they will make one,if not they will raise the brood normally.If they are low on pollen or honey add a frame of each next to the frame with the new brood.This ain't rocket science guys,its only beekeeping. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:34:00 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lars Hansen Subject: (Mo)Re: Tips For Visiting Bee Websites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Allen and list. To us in Denmark where a local phonecall (i.e. browsing) is charged = heavily, Your advices are very wel-placed. I would like to add just a few more tips to your ones. A) Sometimes You may want to take notes and not just bookmark or print. = Or maybe bring Your information to another computer. I use a MS Word document and make a number of tables all with 2 rows and = one column, and when I browse i keep this document open in the = background. When I find an interesting site I click once in the URL-line and copy = the address (Edit-Copy or Ctrl+C) and then shift to the Word document = and paste the URL in one of the cells. Then I jump back to the website and find some text, mark it up and cut = and paste into the Word document the same way as the URL but into the = cell below. The best thing is, that this way, you never spell the URL wrong. With newer word processors, You don=B4t have to copy the the URL back to = the browser - just use the URL if it is marked up as a link. B) "...run several copies of your browser window at once and read one = page while another fills in in the background. (Don't keep too many = open"..."Windows (r) will break down.. Experience will show what your = individual system can stand." I can add to this, that the number of open Windows/browsers depends on = the amount of RAM to a high degree.=20 Versions 3 and 4 of the IE and Netscape seem to run smoothly with = Windows 9x and 2 open Windows and 16 MB of RAM, =20 3 with 32 MB and=20 5 with 64 MB. =20 This VERY conservative number means what You should be able to run for = hours with hardly any risk of being forced to boot. My experience comes from classrooms with diferent models of computers = and running them for 6 hours with high activity (teenagers surfing and = chatting!!). Not one breakdown inside the above limits regardless of = browser and processor. C) "right click the link and select 'open link in a new window' " If You are using for instance AltaVista and checking out a number of = hits from Your search string, You simply right-click on the first of = Your hits and choose "open in new window" and jump back to right click = on the next link.=20 Leave the search window where it is. That way, You never have to = remember the same search again because You closed the wrong window! Also if You are typing different URLs, just launch the first adress and = use Ctrl + N and a new Window will pop up - showing the same as the = first one but free to use for a new search. Lars Hansen lh@get2net.dk 4. season rookie beekeeper longing for spring an some non-virtual beekeeping ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:59:37 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lars Hansen Subject: Alternative methods and INFORMED discussion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear list. Christopher Slade wrote: "There is an obvious conflict between those who get their living = directly from bees and have their family to feed and workers and bills = to pay NOW and we amateurs"... I would like to add to this. Bee-L is moderated and made for INFORMED discussion on bee topics. To me, a lot of suggestions about alternative methods and so on sound = like pure superstition, BUT: I am not a scientist, nor have I given the = theory a try. If the theory is discussed, tested and turns out to be = right, both amateurs and professionals will benefit from it. If a wild idea can be shot down by facts and logical argumenting, lets = not waste more time on it - but a good idea can also be killed by nobody = responding! An example: Gary Lewis brought up a question about the use of grapefruit = leaf smoke against varroa - along with a scource to the research being = made. You experienced beekeepers may know something about this subject, that I = never heard about - and thus not responding Why not give a beginner like me the chance and add Your comment? Or = refer to information available elsewhere? Then I may end up being = informed some day.. If the list is ACTIVELY kept open to suggestions, it may be that THE = good idea is brought up here and tried out and perfected for the joy of = me and my bees and the saving of the professional=B4s buisness - I=B4m = sure he loves his bees just as well.=20 Thanks for Your time and every piece of new knowledge - I learn every = day. Lars Hansen lh@get2net.dk Denmark ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 19:18:14 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: j h & e mcadam Subject: Re: capturing bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" David Williams asks for suggestions for removing a hive of bees from 2 whiskey barrels. Eric Bullard suggests the swarm may move of its own accord if offered a standard hive with frames or alternatively can be cut out. My experience with swarms is that once a site has been agreed upon the bees must be dislodged within 30 minutes or so of arrival before orientation has taken place. Once comb has been built and eggs laid the bees will not desert their young unless the hive is physically destroyed. I have considerable practice with cutting hives out of areas where the property owners have objected to their presence and this is not a learning experience I would recommend for a novice beekeeper. However the fact that the bees are in barrels offers a way to remove them by working with their instinctive behaviour to start over in the event of fire, flood or natural catastrophe. This will work with any container which is watertight or which can be lifted into a watertight tank or bath high enough to cover the comb. There must be an exit at the top, even if the barrel is placed on the side to enable the bees to escape. By placing a hose in the container or barrel and running water so that it gradually rises up to the comb, you are simulating flood conditions. The bees will walk up as far as they can ahead of the water, abandoning the brood as it goes under water. The queen will accompany the other bees. At the point where the bees must emerge from the barrel, place a hive box with lid but without base filled with drawn combs. The bees will move in a mass steadily upwards and find their new home. At night simply place a base on the box and move it 2 or more miles to a suitable location. You will lose the brood and honey stores but you will capture the entire population including queen without triggering aggression in defence of the hive. Betty McAdam HOG BAY APIARY Penneshaw, Kangaroo Island J.H. & E. McAdam Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Stefan Stangaciu Subject: Re: Alternative methods against bees diseases MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: Christopher Slade To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Date: Dienstag, 2. February 1999 02:10 Subject: Re: Alternative methods against bees diseases >Bees must have been challenged with varroa in Stefan's country for most of his >39 years. Romanians have not yet achieved a world wide reputation for being >efficient beekeepers. It would be interesting to learn Stefan's methods of >varroa control and those of his local colleagues and whether any signs of >resistance of bees to varroa mites is emerging. >Chris Slade Hello dear Chris, Thanks for your positive thoughts related to the alternative methods against bee diseases. As I told you already from the beginning, I am an amateur beekeeper. In the last 7 years I took care of only about 40 colonies, so I am really a very small beekeeper. However, I dare to say that I have a great experience in apitherapy, and in many other natural therapies. Apitherapy can not function without beekeepers and that is why, as a GP (general practitioner), I thought is mandatory to learn and be at least an amateur in your wonderful profession. During the last 8 years I gave hundreds of "lectures" to beekeepers from over 40 countries (directly, through articles or through Internet). My main goal is to give each beekeeper more "tools" to obtain higher quality products and to "teach" them how could they better sell their products to the medical "market". In this regard, I think that it is imperative necessary, even if it's so "painful" for some of us, to try to find as many as possible alternatives to the classical "chemical" treatments which contaminates, sooner or later, all bee hive's products. To master the "alternatives", I think it should be a very important goal for all beekeepers, worldwide. Now, regarding your opinion related to the Romanian beekeeping, I have few comments to make: * there are many documents which proves that beekeeping has in our country a very old history (over 2,000 years); * our bee products are famous for their wonderful, excellent aromas, especially honey, pollen and propolis; * we have, on a small area (around latitude 45), many types of climates, thus here there are over 80% from the Europe's melliferous flora. * Romania, I dare to say also, has the highest knowledge in the use of bee products for medicinal purposes. In Bucharest, since 1978 there is the largest Apitherapy Center in the world. * Apimondia has its Publishing House also in Bucharest; thus, most of the world's beekeeping experience and know-how has "traveled" through my country. * The largest world's Apitherapy Data Base is made by myself, in cooperation with the Standing Commission of Apitherapy from Apimondia. * Yes, you are right, the COMMERCIAL aspects of our beekeeping is not as high as it should be. Why? The answer is simple: 45 years of bad communist type governing... * Related to experience in obtaining bees resistant to varroa, yes, we have also that before 1994, but its true, on a small scale. One of our experienced beekeepers, it seems to be BEFORE other great specialists, has found the best strategy to select varroa resistant bees. His wife told me a couple of minutes ago that they have about 50 (fifty!) colonies resistant to varroa!!! This evening I'll speak directly with him and I'll try to find more details. Of course, you can immagine why, only a small part or none of these "details", will be available for the List... What I can promise is to give you his "official" answer to this very important problem. Kind regards and many thanks Chris! Stefan Stangaciu, MD, LAcup. Constanta, Romania apither@gmb.ro www.sci.fi/~apither www.beesting.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:00:55 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Karl Dehning Subject: catch-hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="cc:Mail" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Bee lovers Here in South Africa ( Cape Town ) I was able to buy Wax-coated Cardboard Catch-Hives. This is years ago. Now I am again looking for this item to use for local bee removal jobs and to put in the field during springtime. Who can give me a contact where I can get this? Thanks Karl D. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 23:09:41 PST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Top web sites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Being a little parochial I should mention that the best site, IMHO, for = Australia is www.honeybee.com.au It believe that others, not in Australia, will also find it interesting. Another one which might be of interest for beekeepers overseas wanting = to know about Australian honey production is www.capilano.com.au Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:20:50 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Anthony N Morgan Organization: Sor-Trondelag College, Division of Electronic Engineering Subject: Re: Queen mating from desired drones MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Tom Barrett wrote: > When reading 'A Manual of Beekeeping' by E.B. Wedmore, I came across the > following paragraphs. > > '176. Provided there are potent drones living in the colony from which the > mating flight takes place, there is a high probability (some say 95 in 100) > that the queen will mate with one of those drones. Never, therefore, let a > queen fly for mating from a colony having drones of undesirable parentage. > Either destroy all such drones and advanced drone brood before inserting a > queen cell, shaking in some recently emerged drones of desirable origin. > > snip,snip Two things: "drones of undesirable parentage" ?? Same mother if from the same hive as the virgin queen so I assume the author, although he doesn't say so (in fact he seems to be saying something quite different!), is warning against inbreeding. If this is not what he means, then surely the virgin queen also has undesirable parentage!! I have read several times that a queen for reasons unknown DOES NOT mate with drones from the same hive ie having the same mother. For example: "It has been shown that virgins very rarely mate with related drones, which reduces the chances of inbreeding, one of the perils to avoid in any controlled breeding scheme." IMPROVING OUR BEE STOCKS: WHY IT IS SO DIFFICULT TO DO by D.W.J. YANKE of DAYKEL APIARIES True or false? Tony ------------------------------------------------------------------- Anthony N Morgan, Fxrsteammanuensis Institutt for Elektroteknikk Hxgskolen i Sxr-Trxndelag N-7005 Trondheim, Norway anthony@iet.hist.no Tlf. 73 55 96 04 Fax. 73 55 95 81 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:32:02 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Anthony N Morgan Organization: Sor-Trondelag College, Division of Electronic Engineering Subject: Re: Queen mating from desired drones MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Tom Barrett wrote > Either destroy all such drones and advanced drone brood before inserting a > queen cell, shaking in some recently emerged drones of desirable origin. Sorry guys, I missed the "before inserting a queen cell" bit. My Last post is therefore of no value. Cheers Tony -- Anthony N Morgan, Fxrsteammanuensis Institutt for Elektroteknikk Hxgskolen i Sxr-Trxndelag N-7005 Trondheim, Norway anthony@iet.hist.no Tlf. 73 55 96 04 Fax. 73 55 95 81 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:04:31 -0700 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Top web sites In-Reply-To: <13161328617504@systronix.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT As the results trickle in, I have been adding the "Top Ten Bee Sites" nominees to my site. I've learned quite a bit already from the nominations. Go to http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/ and select "Links to other sites" I've also included links to observation hive sites on the 'What's New" page. I've had email problems, so let me know if I've missed anything. Allen ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:19:26 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Leendert van den Berg Subject: alternative varooa treatments MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We have been following the discussion on the alternative methods of treating varroa on the list. Thank you Christopher for your positive remarks on the methods. We were hobby beekeepers for over 25 years in the Netherlands and we never treated for varroa. At first we thought we had to give up our bees, because we didn't want to use the chemicals. We only used tobacco in the smoker when we worked our bees. But we decided to give our bees a chance. We quit moving our bees, let them swarm, caught the swarm and listened for the new queen(s) to emerge. Then we opened up the other queen cells at night. We only extracted honey at the end of the season, before feeding. Other members of our beekeeperclub told us we would loose our bees within three years. But we still had bees after 15 years ! We probably lost a couple of hives, due to varroa, but we still kept four to five hives every year and it looked like things went better over the years. Leen once noticed some kind of grooming and we sent an article to the Dutch Beekeepers Magazine and asked if anybody ever noticed that kind of behaviour. No reactions ! Now we are professional beekeepers in the Peace River area of Alberta, Canada. We started two years ago and wintered 800 hives this year. The mites were here just before us and we test and use Apistan. We have a short intense season in Northern Canada and we have to make a living of our bees (and make our payments). We asked the extension people for a slowrelease formic acid method, so far no reply. We have been looking on the internet on the essential oil methods and especially the one that uses hem in the extender patties looks very attractive as we use the unmedicated patties to try to keep the tracheal mite infestation low, but we don't know if this method is allowed in Canada. >From the beautiful Peace county Leen and Maria van den Berg. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:06:08 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Apiservices Subject: Top Ten Beekeeping Websites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi all, I'd like to suggest the following one (of which I am the webmaster ;-) Name: Apiservices - Virtual Beekeeping Gallery URLs: http://www.beekeeping.com or http://www.beekeeping.org Age: 3,5 years Languages: 4 (English, French, Spanish and German) Number of hosted associations, companies and beekeepers: 49 Number of files: 1 600 Number of visits: + 20 000 / month More details: see below the report = generated Tuesday February 02, 1999 - 07:35:50 by WebTrends (http://www.webtrends.com) ******************** For January 1999 / For http://www.beekeeping.com Timeframe 01/01/99 00:00:00 - 01/31/99 23:59:59 ******************** General Statistics (for 1 month): Number of Hits for Home Page: 9219 Number of Successful Hits for Entire Site: 561743 Number of Page Views (Impressions): 146119 Number of User Sessions: 22693 User Sessions from United States: 50.88% International User Sessions: 33.08% User Sessions of Unknown Origin: 16.02% Average Number of Hits per Day: 18120 Average Number of Page Views Per Day: 4713 Average Number of User Sessions per Day: 732 Average User Session Length: 00:13:41 ******************** Most Active Countries (for 1 month): United States 11547 France 2261 Germany 895 Canada 666 Switzerland 496 Belgium 287 Argentina 257 Spain 252 Italy 231 Mexico 172 UK 171 Australia 137 Austria 110 Portugal 106 Netherlands 90 etc. ******************** More details (and glossary): http://www.beekeeping.com/statistics/ ******************** Enjoy your surf! Gilles Ratia gilles.ratia@apiservices.com http://www.apiservices.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:05:39 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Bumblebee nest in roof In-Reply-To: <199902020018.RAA06278@selway.umt.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:09 PM 2/1/1999 -0000, you wrote: ... understand that bumbles are >>superior pollinators vis-a-vis honey bees. >> > "Portable" bumble bee colonies are widely used in Europe for >pollination of tomato crops grown in glasshouses. That technology has been brought the the U.S. In NM and AZ there are 20 and 40 acre greenhouses using bumblebees and growing tomatoes. I know there are others in the U.S. For the most part, the greenhouse folks buy their bumblebees from the same firms that supply Europe (from U.S. franchises). Bumblebees adjust more readily to flying under glass than honey bees. They also fly to tomatoes even before blossom set. Cheers Jerry ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:19:34 -0700 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Weavers Respose to BEE-L Post MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Posted at the request of Dan Weaver: --- January 27, 1999 It has come to our attention that some people have published false and defamatory statements about us and the Buckfast Queens that we produce, asserting incorrectly that we do not breed true Buckfast Queens, that we produce Queens in Africanized areas and that our queens are mated with Africanized drones. In fact no one has produced Buckfast Queens longer than the Weavers except Buckfast Abbey, no one has received more genetic material from Brother Adam than we, and no one, not even Brother Adam, has produced more Buckfast Queens for beekeepers around the world. We have been producing Buckfast Queens since 1968 and have, without a doubt, the largest Buckfast gene pool in the Western hemisphere if not the world. Our Buckfast Queens have been evaluated and tested in innumerable scientifically validated trials and have consistently demonstrated tracheal mite resistance that surpasses all other stocks tested, as well as exceptional honey production capabilities and many other valuable traits. No one has detected even one Africanized swarm in the area where we produce our Queens and there is no basis whatever for speculating that some of our queens have mated with Africanized drones. We do saturate the area where our Queens are produced with huge numbers of our drones to ensure that there are adequate numbers of drones for mating and to dilute the impact of any Africanized drones if Africanized bees ever do make it to our mating areas. We will continue to work to produce the Queens that gave Buckfast their fame. We trust that our past and potential customers will not be persuaded by the false and slanderous statements and misinformed opinion that some have published about us, but will instead allow our bees and queens to do the talking. Sincerely, Daniel and Binford Weaver Rt.1 Box 256 Navasota, TX 77868 INC. (409)825-7312 Binford Weaver Daniel B. Weaver Bringing You Nature's Best Queens, Bees, and Honey since 1888 Phone: 1-(409)825-7312 Fax: 1-(409)825-7351 email: mail@beeweaver.com http://www.beeweaver.com Since 1888 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 18:35:48 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Hutton Organization: ZbeeNet computer networking for beekeepers Subject: Hives in Cedar CHRS: IBMPC 2 CODEPAGE: 437 MSGID: 240:244/116 57105842 REPLY: 240:44/0 61fe4cb9 PID: FDAPX/w 1.12a UnReg(561) I have removed many feral colonies from buildings and a few from felled trees. I where possible have encouraged people to keep the feral colonies especially in unused flues and roofs. I have a mental memory of their locations over a large area of West Kent & East Sussex. With the onset of Varroa in 95/96 most all of the feral colonies have died out. I also collect a lot of swarms, most beekeepers hereabouts refuse, from about 93 the number of calls for swarms & casts went up threefold. Greater wax moth increased proportionately. Some of the last feral colonies I took out although to all intent appeared strong in numbers, this was an illusion, created at the entrance. When I opened up the buildings, there were no more than 5k bees, perhaps 1k with deformed wings and mites galore. Here abouts the majority of "feral bees" originate from swarms from treated hives. I can say in some instances I know who lost a swarm and in whose house or where it resides, I can further say that those early swarms from last year despite having enough honey for the winter have already perished or been robbed out. Every Spring I supply and fix up bait hives close to where I have removed bees from within a house in previous years. Without fail they will be visited by scout bees if not filled by a swarm. I am not so clever that I do not lose swarms myself, I know when they arrive in one of my bait hives however since the queens are marked & numbered and to date the furthest flown has been six miles! taking five days! Someone on the list wrote of memory of bees given their short duration of life! It is an area worthy of research, since the workers can not pass on genetic material, only the queen, how far does she fly to a drone congregation area? does she in fact survey the domain, I doubt this. I suspect very few feral colonies will be truly mite resistant but never the less they are all woth investigating, if they throw swarms regularly then there is the opportunity to really look at them in a hive environment. The most unusual case I know of is the swarm that arrived, hived itself, bred larvae up to pupation, created a few swarm cells and departed leaving very few bees, insufficient to incubate the pupae and presumably left all the mites trapped. There were mites in the cells. I never caught that swarm unfortunately. peter.hutton@btinternet.com --- * Origin: Kent Beekeeper Beenet Point (240:244/116) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:30:46 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Green Subject: Re: I have a bumble bee nest in my roof Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 99-01-30 22:24:12 EST, you write: << A member of our bee club up here in Massachusetts, now deceased, did make some serious attempts to hive bumbles with the intent of seeing if he could migrate them around to local cranberry bogs. >> Good for him! Those who do raise bumblebees are highly secretive about the culture. There's a thriving market in them, although the last couple years the growers have been knocked back by disease problems. << I understand that bumbles are superior pollinators vis-a-vis honey bees.>> They are brawny, compared to honeybees. Studies by Dr. Amrose in North Carolina showed a bumblebee visit roughly equivalent to three honeybee visits. Of course you are comparing colonies of 50-100 against colonies of 20,000-30,000. There are three places where bumblebees shine as pollinators: 1) on crops that honeybees often ignore, such as tomatoes, 2) on crops that need buzz pollination to release the pollen, such as rabbiteye blueberries, and 3) under glass, where honeybees must have intense management to succeed. Dave Green www.pollinator.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:20:54 -0700 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Top web sites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I notice that no one has nominated P-O's page yet. It's one of the originals, and still one of the best. http://www.algonet.se/~beeman/ Allen Let's keep the nominations coming in. I've already learned of some great sites I would have missed otherwise. How about all those bee pictures on http://www.photovault.com/ ? And the Aussie pages?... I'm stacking the nominees up on my Links page. Allen ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:52:34 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Paul Nicholson Subject: undersize hive In-Reply-To: <199902021251.EAA27319@alto1.altonet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi, I have a hive that lost it's queen in the fall and had to be requeened. The cluster covers about 2 or so frames, and where the cluster is, there is larvae and capped brood. The hive population has not really grown since it was requeened and I suspect with the population as low as it is, it's all they can do to break even. The queen seems to be laying well, she just doesn't seem to have a big enough cluster to raise more young. I have been feeding the bees with syrup and as I live in southern California, they are able to forage and bring in a fair amount of pollen. I have another larger hive that has built up dramatically in the last month. I've thought about moving some capped brood from the big hive to the small one, but as the cluster in the small hive already has as much brood as it can cover, I'm afraid the added brood will not be maintained at temperature and it will succumb to chalkbrood. The nights temperatures go down to the forties F with accasionaly drops into the 30's. I've also thought about adding a few frames of brood with bees from the big hive using the newspaper method, but I'm concerned about rejection and/or subsequent raiding by the big hive. My plan was to put three or so frames of brood and bees from the big hive in a super above the small hive separated by newspaper, and then after a few days put them all in the lower super. In my favor, the bees are very busy with the winter flow, so they are as unlikey as they ever will be to raid, and both hives are mellow. Does anyone have any ideas how I can help this small hive build it's population? Paul ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:24:33 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Midnitebee Subject: EAS'99 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings! I have a listing of events for the EAS 1999 Conference.. http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee you will find weather report,airport listing,travel guide,Maryville Colleg/State of Tennesse web sites. I listed Marlene's e-mail..good luck in contacting her..I've been trying for the last few months to reach her :-) Herb Holly-B Apiary P.O.Box 26 Wells,Maine 04090-0026 http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee "All my life, I always wanted to be somebody. Now I see that I should have been more specific." ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:21:40 -0500 Reply-To: info@beeworks.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Queen mating from desired drones MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 1 Feb 99, at 23:48, Computer Software Solutions Ltd wrote: > I would however like to know where the above system stands with relation > to Drone Congregation Areas, where I understood (until now), all > fertilisation of queens takes place, and that outside these areas, the > drones show little if any interest in a queen. It would seem to me that no > matter how many drones left the mating hive with the queen, their presence > would be diluted to insignificance by the greater number of drones in the > congregation area. > If the above system can be used, it would appear to rule out tiny mating > nucs since they most likely could not support the necessary drones. Can't say I agree with the idea that mating only takes place in congregation areas. I've noticed, more than once, early flights of queens followed by a veritable cloud of drones issuing from all the hives in the yard, even on dull windy days! I've also seen a queen land on a branch and immediately a full cluster of drones landed with her,no workers, thought is was a mini swarm,a few minutes later they all took off. So all I can say is, don't believe all you read. As I posted just recently, we use mini nucs and from experience they don't make drones. They seem to tolerate them as we find drones in them early in the season just after having set them up, but givern a few weeks they disappear. If you use mini nucs for mating you must have drone mothers in full sized hives. Incidently use 2nd or 3rd year queens as drone mothers. Young queens don't make drones easily. ***************************************** The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada.L3V 6H1. Phone (705)326 7171 Fax (705)325 3461 David Eyre, Owner e-mail http://www.beeworks.com This months special:-Queen Rearing Equipment. **************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 01:07:00 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jorn Johanesson Subject: new Pollendatabase and Hivenote software and CD Comments: To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=F8rn_Johanesson?= Comments: cc: Pamela Munn MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear all! I have reworked the software to be much more user-friendly! What is new!=20 1. pollendatabase now supports JPG JPEG pictures with preview of = supported pictures. 2. It is now possible to enter nearly all kind accentual chars into the = database. Cyrillic and Chinese included is also possible. If you = can't enter your chars try the language driverchange function in the = tools menu. 3. Bidata is now free software up to five Hives I still ask for = registration if you want it for more hives. The software will no longer = expire, but close down to five hives. I have added a toolbar, so that the most facilities is available by a = mouse click. I have tried to make the software as user-friendly as possible. It is = still my aim to make the software simple to use, because the time used = by the computer should be limited as much as possible when it comes to = beekeeping and beekeeping software. So the art is to limit to what is = really needed, and not to add fancy not relevant stuff. I also now are offering a CD that I am willing to mail to you if you = cover my cost around 20 USD. The CD will contain much more than my = software and cover a lot of beekeeping stuff. for an extra 10 USD I will = grant a registration of the hivenote software to 10 hives. if you want more please contact me. for download of software the following will be advised : USA users and those who the home4.inet adress I suggest that you use = www.Apimo.dk because it is placed in the USA and the files are placed = there. the austrailian site is using an australian fileserver.=20 best regards Jorn Johanesason beekeeper since 1975 EDBI =3D multilingual Beekeeping software since 1987 http://home4.inet.tele.dk/apimo http://wn.com.au/apimo http://www.apimo.dk apimo@post4.tele.dk apimo@wn.com.au Jorn_Johanesson@apimo.dk ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:14:33 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Edwards Organization: Hayden Bee Lab, USDA-ARS,Tucson, Arizona Subject: Re: A honey bee never forgets! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aaron Morris wrote: > Matthew asked, > > Does anyone know how long bees can retain information? > > This is a good question! I don't remember which conference it was where > I heard what researched talk about his latest work where he was trying > to figure out how to get bees to FORGET! Background is that bees > imprint on a certain flower, say clover for instance. I used to work on projects like that - one problem, of course, is that the honey retains and reinforces the aroma cues, and in alfalfa, the fossal pollen plug stays under the tongue for several days. - John Edwards, USDA-ARS, Tucson ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 00:54:41 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Stefan Stangaciu Subject: Varroa resistant bees in Romania too! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi there, As promised some time before, I can tell you for sure now: Romania has also varroa resistant bees obtained after 14 years of selections!!! The author of this success asked me to publish NOT his name etc. on the list, at least for now. He is a humble old beekeeper and do not want to disturb anybody in his/her feelings or vanities... If you need more details, please contact me privately and I'll try to convince him to get in touch with you. Kind regards, Stefan Stangaciu, MD, LAcup. Constanta, Romania apither@gmb.ro www.sci.fi/~apither www.beesting.com PS One of his main goals in all these years: to make top quality apitherapy oriented bee products... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 23:20:56 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Banks Organization: My Beekeeping Homepage - http://www3.sympatico.ca/honey.road Subject: Top 10 and Apiary Size MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'd like to throw in my website for consideration for the top 10. Mind you, it's not as fancy as some of the larger ones, perhapse we should have a different categories (as someone else suggested), so we compare apples with apples. I guess this category would be personal websites http://www3.sympatico.ca/honey.road And, as a question for everyone, what would be the average number of hives you would keep at one location. I know it depend on the availability of flora in the surrounding area, and other factors. Just curious as to how many hives most keep in one loaction. Allen B. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:07:51 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Edwards Organization: Hayden Bee Lab, USDA-ARS,Tucson, Arizona Subject: Re: CDC & Bee Sting Deaths. Comments: To: gclewis@REMOVEpenn.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Gary C. Lewis" wrote: > The numbers (40 a year) sound resonable to me. In a population of > 260+ million there would be a very small segment of that/any population > that would/could die from any number of "very rare" conditions or > events. Bee sting deaths would fall into the very rare catagory. Three people have died in Arizona of "mass stingings" since the AHB arrived here, with one of those a man in weakened condition from cancer and chemotherapy. The dates were 10/95, 10/95, and 4/97. I believe Texas has had 2 human deaths from mass stingings. Dogs, especially ones tied in backyards, have suffered many more deaths than humans here. - We have found no historical record of human deaths from mass stingings in Arizona before 1995. -- ----------------------------------------------------------- John F. Edwards Biological Lab. Technician "Feral Bee Tracker and AHB Identifier" Carl Hayden Bee Research Center 2000 E. Allen Road Tucson, Arizona 85719 Office: 520-670-6380, ext.110 Fax: 520-670-6493 Geog. location: 32.27495 N 110.9402 W Lab webpages: http://198.22.133.109/ http://gears.tucson.ars.ag.gov/home/edwards/index.html http://gears.tucson.ars.ag.gov/home/edwards/jephotos.htm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 23:42:01 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Al Needham Comments: cc: Macy Boeve MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I received the following message. Anyone in this area that can be of help ? Please contact Macy directly at the e-mail address provided. ------------------------------------------------------------------ My father in law has ms. He is only 50 years old and has lived with it for about 10 years. He is not doing well at all. Please tell me how are what we need to do to get the bees. Doctors in the area haven't been much for help. We live in Hamilton, Michigan but we are 15 min. away from Holland and 45 min away from Grand Rapids. We will go anywhere. Macy Boeve e-mail: boevem@macatawa.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Thanks, Al Needham Scituate, MA.,USA Visit " The BeeHive " Learn About Honey Bees And Beekeeping http://www.xensei.com/users/alwine Scituate, MA.,USA Visit " The BeeHive " Learn About Honey Bees And Beekeeping http://www.xensei.com/users/alwine ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 06:59:54 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Murray McGregor Subject: Re: undersize hive In-Reply-To: <917995775.1120305.0@uacsc2.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 In article <917995775.1120305.0@uacsc2.albany.edu>, Paul Nicholson writes >Does anyone have any ideas how I can help this small hive build it's >population? > >Paul Hello Paul, This might be a practice to alarm a purist, but it seems to work OK for us, and we probably do it a couple of hundred times each spring to level the colony sizes a bit. Should only be done once there is a honey flow, however. If there is no flow you would have to simulate this by feeding syrup. Take a bar or two of hatching (certainly as advanced as you have) brood from the strong hive. Shake the bees off it back into their own colony (in other words transfer brood only, not brood and bees). Place this brood in the weaker hive, and put the spare bars back into the donor colony outside the remaining brood nest. Swap the positions of the two colonies. The heavier weight of flying bees from the strong colony boosts the weak one and means the brood will be kept warm, whilst you will have left all the nurse bees with the larger one to keep their brood warm too once the flying bees have left. Occasional problems, perhaps 1 in 40 or so will either supercede or, more rarely, just kill the poor colonies queen. Only rules we can see to this are as follows:- 1 Must be done in a flow. (Prevents fighting) 2 Both colonies must be properly queenright with laying queens. Prospects of success are lessened if the small colonies queen is significantly older than that in the large one (by a season or more, although in California this could possibly be good bit less due to queen fatigue in the long season). 3 Must be done early enough in the day (AND in good enough conditions) for the flying bees to move over to the recipient colony before nightfall. Might sound a strange system, and it surprised me a little in my early days, but there was an old time beekeeper in Scotland who practised this all through spring and early summer. It was his swarm control system, and it resembled playing chess with the bees, constantly flighting bees away from colonies making swarm preparations. Have never gone that far, but he certainly got good crops that way. Hope this helps. Murray -- Murray McGregor murray@denrosa.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 22:47:35 PST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Fipronil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Has anyone on Bee-L had any problems with fipronil affecting honey bees = or any other bees? It is a relatively new phenyl pyrazole insecticide. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 16:04:09 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Edwards Organization: Hayden Bee Lab, USDA-ARS,Tucson, Arizona Subject: Re: Failed Bee Gadgets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm surprised no one has mentioned one of my favorite flops, the famous Apidictor (just happen to have been "given" the wand from one recently, along with a correspondence file and instructions - the idea was OK, but it seems like it took an "expert" to sort out the sounds. -- ----------------------------------------------------------- John F. Edwards Biological Lab. Technician "Feral Bee Tracker and AHB Identifier" Carl Hayden Bee Research Center 2000 E. Allen Road Tucson, Arizona 85719 Office: 520-670-6380, ext.110 Fax: 520-670-6493 Geog. location: 32.27495 N 110.9402 W Lab webpages: http://198.22.133.109/ http://gears.tucson.ars.ag.gov/home/edwards/index.html http://gears.tucson.ars.ag.gov/home/edwards/jephotos.htm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:44:46 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Edwards Organization: Hayden Bee Lab, USDA-ARS,Tucson, Arizona Subject: Re: _Fifty_Years_Among_the_Bees_ by C.C. Miller Comments: To: robert@jobhaus.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Robert MacKimmie wrote: > On 21 Jan 99, at 9:57, Ted Fischer wrote: > > >>>> I checked out barnesandnoble.com, and they were asking $8.75. > >>>> I think that must be considered better than $56 (or $70 or $120). > > David Eyre wrote: > > Whoa, lets back up the bus, please. Ted you're quoting in pounds > > sterling, not dollars. > > We have it in our price list from Thornes at $30.95 US. > > Just to clarify, www.barnesandnoble.com does have > Fifty_Years_Among_the_Bees_ by C.C. Miller for $8.75 US. I grabbed two. I can't say I'm surprised - they have built much of their empire with reprintings of out-of-copyright classics - I just wish they wouldn't use such low-grade paper. BTW, they (with another large book chain) have just succeeded in closing down all the medium-sized home-grown bookstores in Tucson. -- ----------------------------------------------------------- John F. Edwards Biological Lab. Technician "Feral Bee Tracker and AHB Identifier" Carl Hayden Bee Research Center 2000 E. Allen Road Tucson, Arizona 85719 Office: 520-670-6380, ext.110 Fax: 520-670-6493 Geog. location: 32.27495 N 110.9402 W Lab webpages: http://198.22.133.109/ http://gears.tucson.ars.ag.gov/home/edwards/index.html http://gears.tucson.ars.ag.gov/home/edwards/jephotos.htm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:14:02 -0800 Reply-To: robert@jobhaus.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert MacKimmie Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 4.2mach v148) On Tue, 02 Feb, 1999, John Edwards compiled and included in a post: Ted Fischer: > >>>> I checked out barnesandnoble.com, and they were asking $8.75. > >>>> I think that must be considered better than $56 (or $70 or $120). I mentioned that 8.75 was correct and someone informed me of the obvious - that the 8.75 copy is paperback, therefore the cost. And the heart of John's commment: >>> BTW, they (with another large book chain) have just succeeded >>> in closing down all the medium-sized home-grown bookstores in Tucson. I received several other disgruntled comments about big bruiser book chains and I have to admit that I also have a bit of distaste for other consuming chains that eliminate the small to medium independent business citizens. While not assuming a soapbox, this whole subject reminds me that we, as specialty honey producers, are like the businesses being crushed and replaced by Starbucks, Microsoft, etc. While understanding that this, along with huge mergers, is just a successful formula for corporate success in the late '90s, I will refocus my efforts to support smaller businesses in recognition that I am asking the public to support my specialized honey experience, and not a homogenized/pasteurized version. I just wanted to put in my two cents about doing my part to help shape the future by what I do as a consumer. I sense a segment of the public that recognizes and supports this concept of unique services and that is likely where our audience of support will be found in the future. Sorry to be partially off-topic, but I partially created the issue. robert@citybees.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:10:32 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Eric Bullard Subject: Re: Failed Bee Gadgets Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii John, What was the apidictor? Speaking of gadgets, where haveing a BYOG (bring your own gadget) night at our local county Beekeeping club coming up in a couple of months. I'll take pictures and put them on a webpage for those that are interested. Will post the url here. Eric Bullard Asheville, NC ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:33:15 -0500 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Organization: ACB Dept., Univ of Michigan Subject: Re: _Fifty_Years_Among_the_Bees_ by C.C. Miller MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You may remember that about a week ago I ordered this book from barnesandnoble.com for $US 8.95 plus shipping? As expected, today they emailed me with the information that this book cannot be obtained because it is out of print. Surprise! Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 08:25:05 -0500 Reply-To: Rod Hewitt Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rod Hewitt Subject: Pollen traps MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am looking for plans to build a pollen trap. Any help is appreciated Rod Hewitt http://www.dayspring-woodshop.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:01:52 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Dr's. Welthagen,Prinsloo en Esterhuysen" Subject: Pheromones for AHB Comments: cc: Julie McCarthy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I saw a program on television about the efforts to stop the advancement of AHB's from South America to the USA. They showed a guy from Arizona (Called the BeeMaster cc) who was killing bees for a airport. He was using a special pheromone to attract the bees. Does anyone know where I can get hold of samples of these pheromones as I want to use it for catching swarms.Does anyone know how it works? Regards from AHB country Anton Esterhuysen Pretoria, South Africa wpbe@intekom.co.za ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 18:00:37 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: another futile wasteful practise MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi All Alen asked if anybody knew another futile wasteful practise - well I know, and have heard of beekeepers who remove all the drone combs (not the drone comb method) becuase drones 'don't do anything!!'. And the bees just make more. A silly waste of good drones. Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis 6139 South Africa Time = Honey ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 16:53:09 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: IBRA Subject: (Fwd) a quest for information MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT My name is Karen Cooper. I interview people about their jobs for an educational CD-ROM called Career Cruising; it's a career guide for students to learn about various careers from the real people who are in them. And I am desperately looking for a bee keeper to interview and was hoping you could refer me to one, preferably in Chicago or the United States. For some reason, I have had the hardest time finding a professional bee keeper with at least three years experience. If you know one or more people in the industry who would be interested in talking with me, I would greatly appreciate any and all referrals. There are two parts to the process. One part is a questionnaire that I can send to the interviewee, and he/she can fill out at the his/her leisure; it will probably take 30 mins or so. And then there is an in-person interview where I will video tape the last three answers on the questionnaire: what the bee keeper likes about the job, what he/she dislikes, and any advice he/she had for someone entering bee keeping. The interview can take place the at the interviewee's convenience, in two weeks or two months. You are welcome to call me, 773-832-1501, or email me, at kecooper@jaske.com. I look forward to hearing from you soon. Sincerely, Karen E. Cooper ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 12:35:06 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andy Nachbaur Subject: 50yrs by Miller 1918 (the real thing) In-Reply-To: <199902031356.FAA09169@mx1.thegrid.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:33 AM 2/3/99 -0500, you wrote: >You may remember that about a week ago I ordered this book from >barnesandnoble.com for $US 8.95 plus shipping? As expected, today they >emailed me with the information that this book cannot be obtained >because it is out of print. Surprise! I have in my hand the real thing. Fifty Years Among the Bees by C.C. Miller. Hard Cover Published by Root Co. in 1915. Good Condition. Price $50. pp US. (1 copy in stock) Not a real review....just some thoughts on why this book after 84 years is still a "must read" for old and young bee keepers... Beekeeping as it was seen by Dr. Miller from 1861 to 1911. I read it again as I did maybe 45 years ago and must say things have not changed that much with the invention of the honey extractor. Dr. Miller writes of the comb honey days that most in this generation know nothing about. His extractor as pictured sets out abandoned in the apiary, like one of those useless gadgets we now are passing gas about. Miller must have been blessed with daughters as it almost seems he uses women like we use Mexican American's today, to do all his bee work, at least judging by his photo illustrations. Moving bees to the bee cellar, which was the main move, only takes two ladies using a rope sling. Cleaning, grading honey, and bee cloths for working in the bees, as God intended it to bee, just ask my X wife which yours will soon bee if you follow the illustrations in this book. Miller's wife really did not work in the bees, she did catch his first swarm that got him started and was stung bad enough doing it that she stayed out of the bees. But you can be sure she was very much involved in all the other work. Maybe all of this God sent help gave him lots of times to notice things in his bee hives and yards such as grading queens, Italians of course. This was a time of change from the disaster of using native black or brown stock, depending on the view from your area, to improving with daughters directly imported from Italy and other places. >From the day of the horse when sugar came in a wooden barrel that were just ideal for bee hives. Ten cents per hour was top wages, and 12 cents was really big money for honey...the same price for honey we got in the 1950's, but 50 cents per hour was better wages? Why is this a "must read" bee book? The time it is set in I think, 100 years ago, and the fact that when you read it I guarantee you that you will come away with not only answers to some question not answered before but ideas from the early days of beekeeping that you will think are worth a try today in your own "modern" apiary. None of us knows it all and the few that do seem to at times forget the roots of their knowledge. Its a chance to refresh and be refreshed, something for every beekeeper. Want to buy this book, one like it, or any out of print bee books, or just have a real human look for you from our local book seller, use this book finder form and you will be contacted... "We supply books to Amazon..B&N and the rest", "so we have some idea how they work you over". Phoenix Books of Los Banos. http://www.beenet.com/phoenix/pbook.htm Chow, the OLd Drone http://beenet.com (c)Permission is given to copy this document in any form, or to print for any use. (w)OPINIONS are not necessarily facts. USE AT OWN RISK! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 18:38:45 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Christopher Slade Subject: Re: Queen mating from desired drones Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit When Wedmore wrote his book in the thirties bees were far less promiscuous than they are nowadays and mated with only one drone. For mating strategies in north west Europe Tom should also read The Honeybees of the British Isles by Beowulf Cooper. The contrasting strategies of local apiary as compared to drone congregation area mating are examined in detail. Wedmore's principle still holds good - don't let bad queens produce drones. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 18:38:48 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Christopher Slade Subject: Re: A honeybee never forgets Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I once watched a frustrated bee visit 14 dandelion flowers in succession before I lost sight of her but they were all in the clock or seed head stage and not producing nectar. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 19:45:56 -0500 Reply-To: info@beeworks.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: alternative varooa treatments MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 2 Feb 99, at 7:19, Leendert van den Berg wrote: > didn't want to use the chemicals. We only used tobacco in the smoker when > we worked our bees. But we decided to give our bees a chance. We quit > moving our bees, let them swarm, caught the swarm and listened for the new > queen(s) to emerge. Then we opened up the other queen cells at night > hem in the extender patties looks very attractive as we use the > unmedicated patties to try to keep the tracheal mite infestation low, but > we don't know if this method is allowed in Canada. A couple of points I would like clarifying, please. You say you used tobbacco smoke only as a treatment for Varroa? Also the statement 'then we opened the other queen cells at night'? Explaination please. Incidently extender patties are not legal treatments, but at the same time they've never been declared illegal either. Just generally accepted! ***************************************** The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada.L3V 6H1. Phone (705)326 7171 Fax (705)325 3461 David Eyre, Owner e-mail http://www.beeworks.com This months special:-Queen Rearing Equipment. **************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 22:41:11 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: Re: ripening of nectar Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello Peter, Adrian, and All: Peter Hutton wrote: >>Regurgitates nectar to hive bees who ingest and regurgitate, hold droplets >>in proboscis and eventually paste onto cell walls. In each movement water >>is extracted or evaporated. Adrian Wenner wrote: > We used to call such a process "ripening," a term now seldom used. >Peter is correct, though, as one can find in THE HIVE AND THE HONEY BEE >(1992 edition: pp. 92,93). My edition of H & HB, although about 30 years older did have, I found, a good description of ripening, along with nice diagrams of the bees moutparts in various stages of the manipulation process. However, the mechanics of how the process works still intrigues me. I am curious as to how the water is actually being extracted from the nectar by the bee. Or is some water just being evaporated during the process with the nectar being heated each time it is reingested. If the water was being absorbed by the bee it seems to me that it would take an active mechanism to do so and not just a semi-permeable membrane. The sugar content of most of the nectars that bees collect, as Peter and H & HB mentioned, is between 20 and 40 % , and so I imagine it is more concentrated than the bees body fluids, and so osmosis would not tend to take water from it. I would appreciate any more thoughts on this. Stan ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 23:37:41 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard Spiekhout Subject: Feb hives Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit 52 deg f today and I opened my 2 hives to put treat for varroa. Very full of bees and lots of honey. I expected to see much of the honey used up but it is not. Each as a deep and a medium. the deep is 1/3 full of honey and the med is 7/8 full. The hives are not good hives. the deeps have a 3/4 inch space on top and the mediums have a 3/4 inch space on the bottom. You can see my problem. I will correct this but buyer beware. I'm new but I'm learning. Question; in the brace comb in my extra large bee space, between the woodenware, I found larva. White, about 1/4 inch long. I found 5 cells, away from the larva, chewed off and with a yellow sawdust looking debris in them. What am I seeing? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 23:33:03 -0600 Reply-To: Mark Johnson Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mark Johnson Subject: Killion Comb Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I recently watched the Video by the Killion's on comb honey production. Their method was to leave a make a strong colony of bees queenless for a period of 8 days or so during the early part of the honey flow. Then after removing all queen cells a few times during this time they introduce a young mated queen. During the queenless period the bees have stored a large amount of nectar in the brood chamber and when the new queen is introduced the bees immediately start moving a great deal of nectar into the comb honey super to give the queen room to lay. My question to the group is with all the Apistan residue that may be left in the brood chamber (in the wax or whatever) from early spring treatment is there any danger of the nectar that moves from the brood chamber to the comb honey super being tainted? Mark Johnson Johnson Family Farms 41331 West Elysian Lake Road Janesville, MN 56048 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 02:43:56 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Green Subject: Do you do crop pollination service? Get listed in grower list. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Eastern US beekeepers who are available to contract pollinate crops may be listed free of charge, in a list to be made available to growers, and others involved in pollination. To be included, please e-mail me with your name, business name, address, phone, e-mail address (or web page, if you wish), number of hives available, crops that you will pollinate, and distance you are willing to go (or states in which you can work). You will be included in the state of your address, unless you give a second address or name other states in which you can work. The list will be made available at www.pollinator.com in a couple days. We hope to expand to new areas eventually, but this is a start..... Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Home Page: http://www.pollinator.com Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 15:57:29 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Edwards Organization: Hayden Bee Lab, USDA-ARS,Tucson, Arizona Subject: Re: Failed Bee Gadgets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Eric Bullard wrote: > John, What was the apidictor? > Basically a custom-built microphone mounted on a wand, with control unit showing several colored lights for different conditions in the hive. Developed in about 1950, with the fifth and last(?) version in 1963. - John -- ----------------------------------------------------------- John F. Edwards Biological Lab. Technician "Feral Bee Tracker and AHB Identifier" Carl Hayden Bee Research Center 2000 E. Allen Road Tucson, Arizona 85719 Office: 520-670-6380, ext.110 Fax: 520-670-6493 Geog. location: 32.27495 N 110.9402 W Lab webpages: http://198.22.133.109/ http://gears.tucson.ars.ag.gov/home/edwards/index.html http://gears.tucson.ars.ag.gov/home/edwards/jephotos.htm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:37:25 -0600 Reply-To: lkrengel@mc.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Larry Krengel Subject: Re: _Fifty_Years_Among_the_Bees_ by C.C. Miller Comments: To: tvf@umich.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > You may remember that about a week ago I ordered this book from > barnesandnoble.com for $US 8.95 plus shipping? As expected, today they > emailed me with the information that this book cannot be obtained > because it is out of print. Surprise! Ted - I'm late in getting in on this strand, but 50 Years Among the Bees (a great book) was available from Root. (A. I. Root called Miller the Sage of Marengo.) Has someone mentioned that possibility yet? The price was at one time about $9. I have only seen it in paperback, but it must have started out in hard cover. Larry Krengel Marengo, IL Home of Dr. C. C. Miller ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 10:23:09 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Fluvalinate in comb honey-Mark's question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Recognizing that Apistan is regularly used in the United States and with regard to using the Killion method of producing comb honey, where bees are likely to move honey from the brood nest to supers, Mark asks "is there any danger of the nectar that moves from the brood chamber to the comb honey super being tainted" (with fluvalinate)? My understanding is that the fluvalinate formulation has deliberately been made so that it is hydrophobic, meaning that it will not dissolve in or attach to liquids, including honey. I also understand that honey sampling has been done in an effort to detect the levels of fluvalinate and they have been zero to far less than the EPA limits. (Some honey producers are reputed to have used fluvalinate in forms other than Apistan, and there is some possibility that such forms are not formulated to be hydrophobic.) I have been told that the Apistan label in the UK, does not have any prohibition against using strips during flows. However, I have not had that confirmed and I have not seen the labels. Mark, I think the easy answer to your question is that there should be no danger of contamination because your bees move honey from the brood nest to supers. Mark, you also mentioned the Killion method of swarm control. There is no question that their method will work. However, it is extremely labor intensive, and will result continually working with very angry bees. Commercial producers of comb honey, and many other producers as well, use alternate methods of swarm control that are far less labor intensive and also involve considerably lower levels of hive intervention. I will be outlining these methods in the May issue of Bee Culture, and you might find them of interest. Lloyd Email LloydSpear@msn.com Owner, Ross Rounds(tm), the finest in comb honey production. http://www.rossrounds.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:45:13 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mike Griggs Subject: Rapeseed Pollen Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" I have a customer who has asked me if it is possible to get rapeseed pollen. Apparently due to his special dietary needs this is an acceptable pollen source whereas blends do not help him. I could not asnwer this but thought I would put it to the list. Does anyone have any pure rapeseed pollen for sale. This person is looking for a gallon to start but judging by his "need" he may be a steady buyer. Please reply via e-mail or send me info on how to get ordering info. Thanx in advance Mike President Finger Lakes Beekeepers Association ________________________________________________________________________________ IRS: We've got what it takes to take what you have got ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 14:12:56 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: VIJAY CUDDEFORD Subject: Request for information on the effect of transgenic canola on bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Can somebody tell me how to access APIS, Vol. 15, No. 4, which I understand has some information on the effect of transgenic canola on bees? Thanks in advance, Vijay Cuddeford ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:53:21 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jim & Sue Maus Subject: Re: Weaver Buckfasts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Its with interest I have followed the thread about Buckfast bee's and in particular Weaver's. I have used their Buckfasts for several seasons and have never had any bad tempered ones and they produce very well. However in asking Mr. Binford Weaver about them the next spring after Brother Adams death he related to me they no longer received drone semen from the abbey. He said it came from a buckfast breeder in Belgium. Perhaps I misunderstood him on this. However Danny in his rebuttal did not address the fact if they were yet affiliated with the abbey or not. Only cited the past relationship. The Canadian producers are yet in fact affiliated with the program. I would suggest lest we misunderstand that the Weaver's should clarify if they indeed are yet involved with the abbey program. They do yet collect the $1.00 royalty on each queen..........but does it go to the abbey or not?? Just a few valid questions I think. They do have excellent stock I will say in their defense. I have always been pleased. Jim Maus ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 14:43:38 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Anthony M Jadczak Subject: transgenic canola Today's Bangor Daily (Bangor, Maine, USA) has an article from the Washington Post by Rick Weiss concerning a lawsuit in Bruno Saskatchewan where a farmer is being sued by Monsanto for "seed piracy". The company claims that the farmer replanted their roundup resistant canola. The farmer claims that his seed was contaminated via pollination. The article also mentions the "terminator" gene which Monsanto is purchasing the patent rights . This technology was developed in part by the federal government. Does the terminator gene spread via pollen? Does it prevent the plant from making pollen? According to the article, the technology is not expected to be available commercially until 2005 and ensures that the plant will not make seed. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 18:37:04 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: "Keith B. Forsyth" Subject: Re: transgenic canola MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Tony: You may wish to look at the homepage for RAFI, Rural Advancement Foundation International, www.rafi.org . It may be able to answer your questions. You could also review the Pesticide Action Network North America Updates Service February 1/99 release "New Patents for Terminator Seeds Threaten Farmers and Food Security", www.panna.org/panna . Keith ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 21:04:58 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Cesar Flores Subject: Waterproofing fabric Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Does anyone know of a beeswax formula used to waterproof fabric as in "oilcloth"? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 15:21:07 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Edwards Organization: Hayden Bee Lab, USDA-ARS,Tucson, Arizona Subject: Re: Weaver Buckfasts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jim & Sue Maus wrote: > Hi > Its with interest I have followed the thread about Buckfast bee's > and in particular Weaver's. (snipped) > > However in asking Mr. Binford Weaver about them the next spring > after Brother Adams death he related to me they no longer received > drone semen from the abbey. He said it came from a buckfast breeder > in Belgium. Perhaps I misunderstood him on this. > Jim Maus It was my understanding that all importation of drone semen was stopped by the U.S. Congress in about 1970, because of the work done by Kerr, Taber, and Poole which showed how easy it was to exchange genetic material between countries through the mail, and also the fear that the AHB could be distributed (or already had been) throughout the USA. Was this regulation voided eventually ??? Just curious..... - John -- ----------------------------------------------------------- John F. Edwards Biological Lab. Technician "Feral Bee Tracker and AHB Identifier" Carl Hayden Bee Research Center 2000 E. Allen Road Tucson, Arizona 85719 Office: 520-670-6380, ext.110 Fax: 520-670-6493 Geog. location: 32.27495 N 110.9402 W Lab webpages: http://198.22.133.109/ http://gears.tucson.ars.ag.gov/home/edwards/index.html http://gears.tucson.ars.ag.gov/home/edwards/jephotos.htm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 21:15:40 +1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: j h & e mcadam Subject: Re: Top 10 and Apiary Size Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Allen writes: >And, as a question for everyone, what would be the average number of >hives you would keep at one location. I know it depend on the >availability of flora in the surrounding area, and other factors. Just >curious as to how many hives most keep in one loaction. > We can fit 15 hives at a time on the back of our truck so apiary numbers are in multiples of 15. For canola crops we might put on 1 hive per acre (we do not receive pollination fees, this is a trade-off between the farmer and ourselves for rights for following honey flows). For eucalypt honey flows we calculate that an acre of blossom per hive produces a commercial honey flow (provided nectar is actually present). Of course calculating the equivalent of an acre of blossom when the tree is 50 foot or more in height, isn't easy. We usually put down 15 hives in a new area and adjust annually depending on the previous season and what we can observe in the current season. We work 30 hives in a day (including inspection of brood), unless the honey flow is heavy when we can fill the truck with 500 kg. of honey with 6 - 9 hives still not inspected. Betty McAdam HOG BAY APIARY Penneshaw, Kangaroo Island J.H. & E. McAdam Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Chris and Janet Sauer Subject: transgenic canola and the terminator In-Reply-To: <199902050502.XAA20510@subcellar.mwci.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There is a good article in the latest TIME magazine about the development of the "terminator" gene. In the article, the company claimed that the spread of genetically altered pollen could be prevented by planting a ring of taller plants around the field. There is some evidence that the gene would spread into wild plants causing them to be sterile. The article also cited instances of farmers in India burning test fields of the plants. I wonder why they chose India for testing the gene? Chris and Janet Sauer Colesburg Apiaries ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 08:24:06 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Ripening of nectar Comments: cc: Joe Graham Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Stan Sandler wrote: . > >My edition of H & HB, although about 30 years older did have, I found, a >good description of ripening, along with nice diagrams of the bees moutparts >in various stages of the manipulation process. However, the mechanics of >how the process works still intrigues me. I am curious as to how the water >is actually being extracted from the nectar by the bee. Or is some water >just being evaporated during the process with the nectar being heated each >time it is reingested. > >If the water was being absorbed by the bee it seems to me that it would take >an active mechanism to do so and not just a semi-permeable membrane. The >sugar content of most of the nectars that bees collect, as Peter and H & HB >mentioned, is between 20 and 40 % , and so I imagine it is more concentrated >than the bees body fluids, and so osmosis would not tend to take water from it. In the May 1974 paper from the New Zealand Beekeeper (kindly alerted to us by Nick Wallingford), one can find the following passage: ***** (c) "The energy required for ripening large quantities of nectar is appreciable; for instance, Ribbands calculated that the elimination of each pound of surplus water involved the wastage of 4-5 ounces of sugar. This is about 25 per cent and approximates Wedmore's figure of 20 percent. Further, the actual consumption of honey also releases water as the 'water of combustion' plus the 17-18 percent water nturally in honey, and this too demands genergy to get rid of it. This extra water may be as great as one-half to two-thirds of a pound for every pound of honey consumed. Some of this water is lost by evaporation, but the great majority is stored temporarily in the rectum [and then] disposed of during cleansing flights. Again, the bees should have ample opportunity for flying during the period in which they are ripening sugar stores.." ****** Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 963-8508 (home phone) 967 Garcia Road (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93103 **************************************************************************** * * "Nature only answers rightly when she is rightly questioned." * * Goethe **************************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 18:21:55 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Brett D Bannon Subject: Pellet Gardens I was wondering if Pellet Gardens in Atlantic, Iowa still have a mail order business supplying beekeepers with seeds and plants. By chance someone on the list would have the complete address and phone number? Thanks. Brett D. Bannon Folsom, NM USA bbannon@juno.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 18:43:10 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Christopher Slade Subject: Re: apiary size Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit A farmer would tell you that the worst enemy of a sheep is another sheep. In the same way the worst enemy of a hive of bees is another hive of bees. If they had their way they would be a good half mile from their nearest neighbour. However it is very convenient for the beekeeper to have a number of hives in one place even recognising that this means some increase of disease and loss of crop. I generally aim for about 3 hives to an apiary perhaps with a few additional nucs, particularly when queen rearing. Read Dr Bailey's Honey Bee Pathology for pertinent expert views on apiary size. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 14:47:14 +0100 Reply-To: francois-et-beatrice.servel-merle@wanadoo.fr Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: francois et beatrice servel merle Subject: Requeening during winter MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please, if anybody has an experience in requeening colonies in winter, I would be interested in having advises. I was thinking indoor. I must precise the biogeographical conditions of my beekeeping. 44=B0 latitude N, our queens stop laying eggs about during a month (december). = If the winter is quite mild and the fall had been rather rainy, they can to not stop lay. The bees are not confined for long periods, but they are often clustered. Thank you. Fran=E7ois Servel=20 francois-et-beatrice.servel-merle@wanadoo.fr ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 10:56:25 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Valentine Subject: Supplemental feeding patty (BEE CANDY), formula request. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hello Bee Friends, I'm would like to provide additional feed for my bees. They may have enough feed if the weather stays mild. However if we have a nasty March they may run a little short on stores. I know there is a "supplemental feeding patty" (BEE CANDY), formula. Sugar, corn syrup ect... I no longer have the recipe. I was also wondering, is it possible to medicate the be candy with TM10 ?? In closing I could say that the bees looked great so far. The work and attention they received over the summer appears to have paid off. Special thanks to the people involved with Connecticut's Bee Clubs, as well as the support we (CONNECTICUT BEEKEEPERS) receive from The Connecticut Experiment Station Entomologists. John CT ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 01:31:55 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Stefan Stangaciu Subject: Apitherapy lectures. Comments: To: Apither-L MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi there, For all of you interested in more info on the medical use of bee products, here below is my schedule of future apitherapy lectures/conferences/meetings. For any question please contact me privately at: apither@gmb.ro Best wishes, Stefan Stangaciu, MD, LAcup. ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo February 21 - 25.Th. 1999: Havana, Cuba. Contact person: Biol. Adolfo Perez Pineiro (apicul@minag.gov.cu ). February 27 : Graz, Austria. Contact person: Herrn Prdsident Harald Singer, Oesterreichischer Erwerbsimkerbund, Phone: + 43 3884 550 (Wegscheid). March 5: Passau, Germany. Contact person: Irene and Thomas Schachtner apitherapy@iname.com ), Phone: + 49 851 31545. March 13-14: Germany, Enterrottach am Tegernsee (German Apitherapy Society Annual Meeting). Contact person: Herrn Wilhelm Hemme, President of Deutsche Apitherapiebund ( apither.hemme@neuburg.baynet.de ) and Thomas Schachtner apitherapy@iname.com ) oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 07:13:28 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Norman CotÊ" Subject: Re: Supplemental feeding patty (BEE CANDY), formula request. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit HARD CANDY 3 lbs whte Karo syrup (corn syrup) 12-15 lbs of confectionary sugar Approx 30-32 ozs. water 1/2 teaspoon cream of tartar After the ingredients have been added to the water, stir while heating slowly to reach 240-245 degrees F. Keep stirring and use a candy thermometer. Then let the mixture cool to 180 degrees F. Then beat until it thickens. Line a shallow cake pan with wax paper and pour till 1/2 inch thick. Let cool completly. Feed 4" x 5" pieces on the top bars of framesd and replace as comsumed. I don't see you can't add TM to this mixture (about two tablespoons sounds about right to me.) Hope this is what you were looking for. Norm, also from Connecticut (Norwalk) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 17:36:11 -0500 Reply-To: info@beeworks.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Eagle Scout Some time ago i remember reading about the reinstatement of the scout badge for beekeeping. Would the author please e-mail me direct, I have someone looking for this information Have tried the logs, but think the info is buried too deep to find. ***************************************** The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada.L3V 6H1. Phone (705)326 7171 Fax (705)325 3461 David Eyre, Owner e-mail http://www.beeworks.com This months special:-Furniture Polish Kit ****************************************