From MAILER-DAEMON Fri Sep 17 12:52:11 1999 Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27281 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:52:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA11080 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:52:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199909171652.MAA11080@listserv.albany.edu> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:52:06 -0400 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8d)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG9904C" To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Content-Length: 137706 Lines: 3120 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 15:44:00 -0500 Reply-To: cmichel@pbmo.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "M. C. Michel" Organization: Snap Shot Subject: Re: Honey Jar?? Comments: To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I just acquired a square, one pound pure honey jar which is marked, "honey acres" on the bottom. Does anyone know just WHEN or WHERE this originated? Is it new? OLD? Thanks, Chris Michel Michel Family Apiaries Poplar Bluff, MO ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 21:48:58 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Paul Cronshaw, D.C." Subject: Working with AHB in US Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Looking for any contacts in Southern parts of USA with whom I can communicate about how the AHB has changed their practice/life of beekeeping. Thanks in advance. Paul Cronshaw, D.C. Hobbyist Beekeeper Santa Barbara, CA USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 10:20:23 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jean-Marie Van Dyck Subject: Re: Queen Acceptance Comments: To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: cc: Scott Moser In-Reply-To: <199904141817.OAA19028@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Scott ! you asked ... > Does weather adversly affect queen acceptance? I just got 5 new >queens for my splits and to requeen a hive, and the weather is supposed to >turn rainy and cold. 2 splits have been queenless 4 days. Problem is, >doesnt look like the weather will improve much between now and Tuesday. >What to do? >Thanks, It's an old problem ! Brother Adam had submitted his conclusions about 50 years ago. They are *quite up-to-date* ! Read them ! Brother Adam (1951) The Introduction of Queens. Bee World, 32(1) 49-52, (2) 57-62. On http://fundp.ac.be/~jvandyck/homage/artcl/FAintroBW51en.html you can read this English abstract by P.S. Milne of an original (big) article "Das Zusetzen von Königinnen" published in German in the Schweiz. Bienenztg. 73 (1950) pp 267-273, 314-316 http://fundp.ac.be/~jvandyck/homage/artcl/FAintroSBZ50de.html. And in French ... Et en francais dans la Belgique Apicole http://fundp.ac.be/~jvandyck/homage/artcl/FAintroBA52fr.html About your limited problem of cold weather ... seems important to put the queen cage really "in" the cluster to avoid her abandonment. Some sugar patty (500 g) on the top of the frames could help the situation. Hoping this helps ! Beely Jean-Marie Van Dyck Owner of the list "Abeilles" on bees in French. To subscribe : send the line "subscribe abeilles" in the text on a mail to the list server "majordomo@fundp.ac.be" You can also see the multilingual homage page to Brother Adam on the URL http://fundp.ac.be/~jvandyck/homage.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 07:50:11 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jerry Scott Subject: Bee's behaving Strangely MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Yesterday, I went to a new hive of mine to release the queen from her cage. The packages I have had in the past had the queen sealed in a cage with a candy plug. This package was the first I had ever bought that the queen was sealed in with a cork! I'll never buy a package with a queen cage sealed with a cork again. Anyway, while I had the hive open after installing the package three days ago and was holding the cage trying to pull that irritating little cork out with a pair of jewelers needle-nose pliers, the bee's simply covered my gloved hand holding the cage. I felt like I was holding a vibrator because these crazy bee's were holding their tails real high and buzzing as hard as they could. I had dozens of bee's doing the strange buzzing thing on my hand. Would anyone know what these funny things were trying to do? My hand was still vibrating for five to ten minutes after I had them all closed back up. The whole thing was rather funny. By the way, never could pull that cork stuffed sideways deep in that little hole out. I ended up gripping the cage screen and ripping it off to release the poor entrapped queen. The cork simply wouldn't come out, it kept coming apart in tiny chunks. Which is why I'll never buy a package with a corked queen cage again. Thanks Jerry Scott Critterden Ranch (Specializing in Arabian Horses, Beef Cattle) Lipan, Texas. jscott2@tandy.com (preferred) critter@lipan.net (alternate) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 09:26:08 EDT Reply-To: Pollinator@aol.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pollinator@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Bee's behaving Strangely Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/15/99 9:01:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jscott2@TANDY.COM writes: > Anyway, while I had the hive open after installing the package three > days ago and was holding the cage trying to pull that irritating little cork > out with a pair of jewelers needle-nose pliers, the bee's simply covered my > gloved hand holding the cage. I felt like I was holding a vibrator because > these crazy bee's were holding their tails real high and buzzing as hard as > they could. I had dozens of bee's doing the strange buzzing thing on my > hand. Would anyone know what these funny things were trying to do? My hand > was still vibrating for five to ten minutes after I had them all closed back > up. The whole thing was rather funny. When the bees raise their tails, you can see a white spot. This is the Nasinov gland. They fan their wings to spread the odor outward. Since bees communicate by odor, they were telling all the other bees: "Here she is; here is our queen! Just stay close to us." Swarms frequently do this to tell each other where to find the entrance of a new home. You had a pretty neat experience. Now if we can just wean you from those gloves, you can really get high on it....... Part of the problem in removing corks is the gloves themselves. They also make you clumsy in many other ways. You will not "fine tune" your use of the smoker, as long as you are dependent on gloves. And gloves can spread disease. Most every beekeeper starts off with gloves. But it is a good idea to work to the day when you can work without them. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html The Pollination Home Page: http://www.pollinator.com Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 08:46:22 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Musashi Subject: Re: Bee's behaving Strangely Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Jerry Scott wrote: these crazy bee's were holding their tails real high and buzzing as hard as... I recall taking a caged queen to a temporarily queenless colony once and having there be a "hum of excitement" or so it seemed when the bees caught her scent. It's probably not exactly the same thing Jerry experienced, but I suspect that "their tails in the air" had to do with scenting with Nasavov glands to announce "the queen is here". The buzz was probably an "auditory" with the same message. As I was reminded by Chris Slade, bees respond instinctively to stimuli, so there had to be a particular combination of factors that caused them to act the way they did. Another interesting concept is that different colonies of bees with different parents and different genetics might have acted differently in the same situation. Bees are complex enough animals that it would be difficult to determine what ALL the stimuli were to get them to exhibit this response. To express it in anthropomorphic terms, they were probably announcing "the queen is here with us." As far as corks go, those little bamboo skewer sticks with the pointed ends have never failed me in prying corks out of queen cages. I once had a drone layer (queen) so I thought I didn't have a queen because I didn't see her in the hive. The bees, though, knew they had a queen, so when I introduced a new one, they balled her and killed her. A short time later, I found the drone layer, removed her and introduced another queen, which the bees then accepted. Apparently a queen with no stored semen is still a queen--especially if she is young and vigorous (the drone layer also happened to be a queen from a queen breeder that I had introduced earlier. They graciously replaced her for me after I explained to their satisfaction the symptoms I was seeing.) Layne Westover College Station, Texas ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 10:08:34 EDT Reply-To: BeeCrofter@aol.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Bee's behaving Strangely Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/15/99 8:01:51 AM EST, jscott2@TANDY.COM writes: > Which is why I'll never buy a package > with a corked queen cage again. I don't know if my method is understandable worldwide but for cork removal I use a sheet rock screw which is a wood screw of about # 6 or # 8 I use it just like you would use a wine screw. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 07:51:23 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Emergency Queens Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I realise that we have discussed emergency queens here from time to time, and the consensus is that emergency queens can be inferior to other queens. The belief is that, when faced with a sudden queen loss, the bees may choose larvae that are older than the optimal age for making queens. These queens then will have a head start on any younger queens that may be started and thus emerge first. The result is a partially intercaste quuen that lacks capacity and longevity and perhaps some of the requisite pheremones. Having said that, I do know that Charles Mraz had a system that was entirely dependant on emergency queen rearing and that I also used one for several years commercially without any apparent ill effects. So what I am wondering is this: what is the evidence? What proof is there that, indeed, the bees do an inferior job when faced with an emergency situation? It really does not stand to reason in that the bees have relied on this mechanism -- along with the two others -- for queen replacement for eons. Does anyone have any references or personal experience that confirms that the results of emergency queen rearing are indeed inferior? allen ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 08:41:46 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Strange bee behavior Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" jscott2@TANDY.COM wanted to know about strange bee behavior. Dave Green responded with a comment about the use of Nasanov glands: "Swarms frequently [use the gland] to tell each other where to find the entrance of a new home." For an update on that topic, see: 1992 Wenner, A.M. Swarm movement: A mystery explained. AMERICAN BEE JOURNAL. 132 (1):27-31. Dave also commented upon the problem associated with use of heavy gloves. As mentioned some years ago, one can use surgical gloves when handling queen cages. Normally, the stinger doesn't penetrate through that flexible material; yet, one can readily manipulate objects. Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 963-8508 (home phone) 967 Garcia Road (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93103 **************************************************************************** * * "Nature only answers rightly when she is rightly questioned." * * Goethe **************************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 12:30:31 EDT Reply-To: BeeCrofter@aol.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Emergency Queens Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/15/99 10:36:51 AM EST, allend@internode.net writes: > > Does anyone have any references or personal experience that confirms that > the results of emergency queen rearing are indeed inferior? > If they are raised during a flow and plenty of food is coming in the unmated queen is fat dumb and happy. If the weather and the availability of drones is favorable you get good queens. If any of the three are lacking you get runts and poor mating and eventual collapse or supercedure. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:50:14 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: Re: Where The Hell Did The Bees Come From? Comments: To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >so I check out the frames where >they came from and find larva and capped WORKER brood with a smattering of >drone brood. If it is CAPPED brood then it could not have come from one weekend to the next and MUST have been there on your first inspection and you missed it. The bees are defensive because of the robbing. Equalize the strength between the two hives by transferring some frames of brood ready to hatch. You could also shake in some young nurse bees if the hive is too weak to keep the brood warm. Keep the entrance shut to the minimum to help them defend themselves. Regards Stan ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 17:50:32 +0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Florin Cimpoesu Subject: Need help, pollen collector and propolis collector Comments: To: "BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello BEE-L-friends, I search drawing detail for pollen collector and propolis collector, attachable Langstroth hive. Thanks! Florin Cimpoesu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 18:44:17 -0400 Reply-To: mcmanus Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: mcmanus Subject: Scent ? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All Today while talking with another beekeeper and standing about ten feet from the nearest hive, I got stung on the face by one of the little girls that carried a grudge. I had not been working any of the hives or disturbing them in anyway. The sun was bright and the temp. was 72 F., about 1:30pm, flight was on in the full. After the stinger was removed, I asked why? My friend made the comment that it could have been because of the scent I gave off. I had just finished a warmed up can of stew. Was it the potatoes, carrots or the stew meat? Has anyone else had a problem with your personal scent? Would it be advised to use a mint mouth spray before working my hives? Just asking. Maybe Allen has an answer. Joe McManus Loving You Honey Farms Bremerton, Wa. USA mcmanus@budsters.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:37:05 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tom Elliott Subject: Re: Emergency Queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Allen Dick wrote: > So what I am wondering is this: what is the evidence? What proof is > there that, indeed, the bees do an inferior job when faced with an > emergency situation? It really does not stand to reason in that the bees > have relied on this mechanism -- along with the two others -- for queen > replacement for eons. > > Does anyone have any references or personal experience that confirms that > the results of emergency queen rearing are indeed inferior? I have often requeened using an "emergency" queen method, but going back four days after pulling the old queen, you will find fully capped queen cells. This suggests that you have older larvae being put into service. I have not ever allowed one of these prematurely capped cells to mature so I do not have any evidence in that respect. I would add that it does stand to reason that any queen, even a poor one will serve in an emergency. All it would take would be one good egg to produce a new supercedure cell and queen. Tom -- "Test everything. Hold on to the good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21) Tom Elliott Chugiak, Alaska U.S.A. beeman@gci.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 07:00:50 -0400 Reply-To: mpalmer@together.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Palmer Organization: French Hill Apiaries Subject: emergency queens Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Allen- Bill Mraz, son of Charlie, still relies on emergency queens. Never buys any queens. Makes spring nucs, and lets the bees raise their own. Works well for him. Saw some brood patterns last summer, and I was impressed. Mike ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 09:09:24 -0700 Reply-To: ryarnell@orednet.org Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard Yarnell Subject: Re: Bee's behaving Strangely Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU We use a "deck" screw or "dry-wall" screw. The points are sharp and the threads fairly coarse. A couple of turns puts the screw far enough into the cork without expanding it appreciably. A mini-cork screw. Someday, I'll get around to putting a handle on one. Jerry Scott wrote, in part: > Yesterday, I went to a new hive of mine to release the queen from >her cage. The packages I have had in the past had the queen sealed in a >cage with a candy plug. This package was the first I had ever bought that >the queen was sealed in with a cork! I'll never buy a package with a queen >cage sealed with a cork again. -- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 03:57:12 +1200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Organization: Bay of Plenty Polytechnic Subject: Info: Year 2000 Tour to New Zealand Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Trevor Bryant of AlphaBees and a well-known organiser of tours to New Zealand has asked me to post the following for him. You can get this and more information from http://www.beekeeping.co.nz/2000tour.htm and http://www.beekeeping.co.nz/2000.htm You can write to Trevor at alphabee@xtra.co.nz Year 2000 Tour to New Zealand ----------------------------- Come to New Zealand, January - February 2000 and let me enjoy the honour of showing you around my place. Hello everyone, It is 6 weeks since I left the US of A and Canada, Hand it is raining, so I have taken the opportunity to put together an update of the tour and to tell you something about the sights, sounds and scents you will experience in the two weeks you are on tour. First, though, I will try to explain why I visited North America and what was accomplished. The most important thing was to meet as many people as possible, so that past, present and future participants in tours to NZ and Australia could put a face and personality to the name on the promotional material, to meet, greet, talk to the many friends made on previous tours, revisit old times, discuss new opportunities and where possible, visit their place, to 'promote' the current tour, get additional ideas to add to the itinerary from an attempt to ascertain your requirements and interests. There were two disappointments: One, lack of time meant many opportunities could not be taken advantage of as time simply did not allow discretionary social discourse (wow, how is that for modern marketing jargon), and secondly, it was unfortunate that a misunderstanding meant that I was unable to have more time on the programme at the ABF meeting in Nashville and that because the US has a different video system to NZ, there was insufficient time to re-record the videos (2) on NZ beekeeping I had with me (that plus cost, locating suitable monitors, space, etc). However I did meet lots and lots of very interesting people, many of whom expressed considerable interest in the tour. Indeed the USA/Canadian visits were from a marketing perspective, highly successful. The success of previous tours and an even better product on offer for 2000 assured us that we had indeed put together the tour of the Millennium and depending on which side you stand, it could be the Tour of the 20th or the 21st Century (I happen to think it is the tour of the 20th century, as the new millennium starts 2001). The one negative that arose was that the pamphlets did not make it clear that the tour cost was all inclusive with the exception of the lunches on the 2 free days in Queenstown. All coach, entrance fees, meals including lunches, accommodation, airfares from LA and Vancouver are included in the TOTAL PACKAGE. The exceptions are departure and airport taxes, communication and bar charges, etc - all those personal costs you may incur during your stay and in particular 'prezzies' you acquire throughout the trip. There are no changes to the current route, but there are additional visits enroute. To mention a few: "The Buzzybee" Factory. Buzzybee is a registered NZ icon, so parents and grandparents, here is an opportunity to acquire a fabulous toy for the kids (young and old alike). The Honey Shop. When in the Bay of Plenty, we will visit the oldest production kiwifruit orchard, vines in excess of 60 years of age and your hosts will be Trevor Bryant, Judith Ingram (yes, our home) and I must not forget Molly the very brash Bishon Frise. I have also a couple of surprises and I plan to drive our route this winter to look for those special places for picnic lunches, 'leg stretch' breaks and other nooks and crannies to delight the eye, tickle taste buds and other sensory organs. A few things you should know: Do not Bring any bees, honey or bee related equipment with you as it will not be allowed across our border. NZ is free of all major bee 'diseases' with the exception of Nosema and AFB and is free of mites and many other pests of bees. The industry has endorsed a 'drug free policy' to enhance the premium standing of NZ's apiary products on world markets. I'll tell you more during the trip. Bring any food or agricultural products Do Bring a light crushable veil (laundered or new) Bring a large brim hat. No exceptions. NZ has a very high UV light and you will burn exceptionally quickly. Here in the Bay of Plenty, for instance, an average sunburn time is 11 to 13 minutes for locals. Bring sunblock. Bring light summer clothing, light weight rain coat (just in case). Note: average temperatures January and February are: North Island evening 15 degrees C, daytime 22-24 degrees C. South Island evening 12 degrees C, daytime 24 degrees C. The North does have a higher summer rainfall than the South but trends with La Nina and El Nino have become more erratic. Bring swimmers (or swimming trunks) as most hotels have a pool and there will be opportunities to surf - just what is needed to exercise after a long satisfying day. General Currency: NZ $1.00 = 53.54 cents US. So you will have a favourable exchange rate (I predict by 2000, NZ $1.00 = 58 cents US). Hotel accommodation is comparable to USA. I would suggest our motels are superior, usually being fully equipped with kitchen, living and separate bedrooms. Roads are similar to USA country roads, our national roadways beyond the cities are not as good but with the exception of the Northern leg, roads will be a lot less crowded. NZ drivers are notorious for their selfishness. Our car fleet is dominated by small - medium Japanese marques. Trucks tend to be Japanese, with large tractor units predominantly US marques (Kenworth, Mack, International, etc). Shops are friendly places and I will steer clear of the more expensive "tourist traps". All major credit cards are accepted, travellers cheques are easy to cash and electronic banking, EFTPOS (electronic cash transfer by card) is in most shops. Fresh fruit and vegetables are readily available and in most towns, tap water is safe to drink. NZ wine is world famous and there are some exceptional meads to be found. NZ has a great range of beers and non-alcoholic beverages to cater for all needs plus we may find time to stop at McDonalds, KFC, etc, occasionally, but only if you are suffering extreme withdrawal symptoms. Throughout the trip, I will introduce you to local cuisine, and I hope you will explore these delights with NZers you meet as fine food and conversation cements friendships across all cultural borders. Last but not least, there comes a time when commitments must be made, forward bookings confirmed and optional extras arranged. We would therefore request that you complete the enclosed questionnaire and if you are able to commit, send a deposit to me ASAP. Refunds will be undertaken less expenses incurred for financial exchange charge but these will become more difficult by departure date. A deposit of US$500 per person is required preferably before 30 September 1999. We will attempt at all times to cater for late inclusions and all optional extras. Communication is a vital ingredient to success. Be specific if you can and we will endeavour to meet your requests. If it is not possible, local knowledge will be useful in communication options or alternatives. It is our job to make your tour an unforgettable pleasurable experience (some tours are unforgettable for the wrong reasons) with fax machines, telephones and the 'net'. The word is communicate and we, Jo Page and myself, with the Handy tips and essentials You will need adapters for any electric's you bring. NZ has a 240 volt, 3 pin system. Check with your phone company re: international transfers for mobiles, redirecting and roaming (remember your adapters). You will need Health Insurance. NZ has an excellent public and private health system, but it is not free to international travellers. There will be a mobile phone in the coach at all times plus a tandem pocket phone. The number is 64-25-937 153 (the first digits are country code, second digits mobile carrier, six digit number is the actual phone number). ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:36:49 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Emergency Queens Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU In-Reply-To: <199904161207.IAA22029@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > > Does anyone have any references or personal experience that confirms > > that the results of emergency queen rearing are indeed inferior? > I have often requeened using an "emergency" queen method, but going back > four days after pulling the old queen, you will find fully capped queen > cells... "Test everything..." Thanks for the replies, folks. There's enough here to keep me hammering away at this, and my reasoning does not prove that there is necessarily anything wrong with the cells sealed after four days... Let's walk through the whole thing: >From Laidlaw's 'Contempory Queen Rearing' Day ---- 1 Egg - 2 Egg - 3 Egg - (Hatching) 4 1st larval - 1st moult 5 2nd larval - 2nd moult 6 3rd larval - 3rd moult 7 4th larval - 4th moult (sealing) 8 etc... Now, let's look at the above and reason thus: * We dequeen a hive and it takes a day to realise that and start cells. * When it does start, it uses 2 day old larvae (the oldest suitable) * Two days later they are capped (see above) * On day four the beekeeper comes and sees capped cells. That is as it should bee. In't it? allen ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:01:39 -0400 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Organization: ACB Dept., Univ of Michigan Subject: Re: Scent ? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit mcmanus wrote: > Hi All > Today while talking with another beekeeper and standing about ten feet > from the nearest hive, I got stung on the face by one of the little girls > that carried a grudge. I had not been working any of the hives or disturbing > them in anyway. The sun was bright and the temp. was 72 F., about 1:30pm, > flight was on in the full. > After the stinger was removed, I asked why? My friend made the comment > that it could have been because of the scent I gave off. I really don't think that scent has anything to do with it. This same thing occasionally happens to me, and I just feel that I interrupted the flight pattern to the hive. Ten feet is usually enough room, but sometimes it just happens. Fast jerky movements almost invariably stimulate defensive behavior, but once in awhile one will get a sting for no reason (to us at least) at all. This is why I insist that visitors wear a veil at least. I don't mind a sting, but they might! Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:38:08 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Emergency Queens Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Okay. I'm getting pretty deep into this and it looks more and more as if the bad press for emergency queens is largely superstition and misunderstanding. (I'm sure that this misunderstanding was not strongly opposed and questioned by queen breeders). I went to to A I Root's 1991 edition (2nd) of the ABC and can see where the whole thing may have started. BTW, he is a very lucid and delightful writer; the pedantic prose that taints later editions is missing and he writes from careful and keen observation. Without quoting at length, he observes "...bees, especially when deprived of their queens unnaturally, and broken up into small colonies, as beginners are very apt to have them, in order to raise a queen, often select a worker-larva so old that the queen raised from it is about half worker and half queen." and "So far as I have been able to make out, these half-worker queens are the result of trying to raise a queen when there are too few bees or when the larvae with which they are obliged to rear a queen are too old: that is too nearly ready to seal up. Where they can do no better, they will undertake to rear a queen from a larva only one day before sealing up..." Manley has a poor opinion of emergency raised queens, but does not seem to hagve tried them much. The Hive and the Honeybee specifies that the bees will choose a day-old larva. The assumption is that such an egg is available. Other texts seem indifferent on emergency queens and do not seem to treat them specially. In my own experience, emergency queens reared in the spring and when the hives are well fed and populous normally are laying prolifically by 21 days after the dequeening that caused their production. Moreover, there seems to be a pent-up recoil action that propels them ahead, since the bees have had time to lay in good stores of pollen and conserved their strength during the no-brood interval and the hives rebound strongly. If splits are made by breaking a two-storey hive in two, the half with the new queen will usually go on to out-pace the half with the old queen within six weeks. The failure rate was quite low, being about ten percent as I recall. Why do I write this? Well I just saw an email offer from the Argentinian source that seems bent on underbidding everyone and driving the price to rock bottom, and it was at 62.5c CANADIAN (That's 42c US, folks) If that is the current price of honey, I've gotta cut costs NOW, and one place to look is at that $20,000 CAD worth of queens I was planning on... allen "If I make a living off it, that's great--but I come from a culture where you're valued not so much by what you acquire but by what you give away," -- Larry Wall (the inventor of Perl) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 12:34:25 EDT Reply-To: Pollinator@aol.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pollinator@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Emergency Queens Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 99-04-15 11:36:54 EDT, allend@internode.net (Allen Dick) wrote: << So what I am wondering is this: what is the evidence? What proof is there that, indeed, the bees do an inferior job when faced with an emergency situation? It really does not stand to reason in that the bees have relied on this mechanism -- along with the two others -- for queen replacement for eons. Does anyone have any references or personal experience that confirms that the results of emergency queen rearing are indeed inferior? >> I have seen some sorry queens produced from emergency cells in midsummer here when the old queen is failing. Usually in July, there is almost no flow, and I have seen symptoms of starvation in some hives in a hot, dry year. Of course I cannot separate the effect from the heavy doses of insecticide on cotton bloom all through the area, and this may be the reason, both for the queen failure and for the failure of the young queens. On the other hand, my first beekeeping mentor used to raise all his own queens from emergency cells. He would start splitting around March 25, whenever the first flow started here in South Carolina, and finish up about a month later. The biggest drawback was that we had to find each queen (more than 1000). The old queens got two frames of sealed brood, a frame of honey, and the field force. Toward the end of the period, she would get three frames. These were then taken north for apple pollination about May 5 -10 and usually were very strong. The rest of the brood went into 5 frame nucs. All were made the same, with three frames of brood, making sure there were some eggs, one frame of honey, and one frame of comb or foundation. These were carried to another yard. He did not do any selection, unless the old queen was obviously failing. There were still a lot of the old german black bees around here then, and he had some seriously mean stock (a baptism of fire for a new beekeeper). But the queen was usually a well fed, well bred one. I think the key was that he always did it on the spring flow, when bees are predisposed to raise queens anyway and drones were plentiful. I still raise some this way, but I prefer to use cells. I started off using grafted cells, and still do some, but more often have plenty of swarm cells. If I have has swarm cells, I do not look for the queen. I just divvy up the brood frames so that each nuc gets a cell. If there are several on a frame, I may cut one or two off and push the top of the cell into a frame of brood. I've had good results that way. I don't automatically use cells from every colony. If a colony is mean, has chalkbrood, or looks and smells poor, I will use the brood, but make sure they have a cell from better stock. I don't do any selection for color. Just health, productivity, gentleness. I like to pop the cover and see bees spill over the edge of the box. Nice smelling, clean looking bees......! In the spring, I like to see lots of fat healthy drones, also. A hive that isn't raising drones is suspect..... Dave Green SC USA The Pollination Home Page http://www.pollinator.com The Pollination Scene http://members.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop on the Internet (honey & beeswax candles) http://members.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 15:31:08 -0400 Reply-To: info@beeworks.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Emergency Queens Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU In-Reply-To: <199904161206.IAA22013@listserv.albany.edu> On 15 Apr 99, at 20:37, Tom Elliott wrote: > I would add that it does stand to reason that any queen, even a poor one > will serve in an emergency. All it would take would be one good egg to > produce a new supercedure cell and queen. > I think you're right Tom. It seems to me that whenever I've left an emergency queen it's not long before the bees replace her. But unfortunately if the emergency queen was agressive then the superscedure queen does not improve, whereas grafted queens from the original mother are almost a carbon copy. ***************************************** The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada.L3V 6H1. Phone (705)326 7171 Fax (705)325 3461 David Eyre, Owner e-mail http://www.beeworks.com This months special:-Therapik, soothing aid for stings. **************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 12:00:43 -0400 Reply-To: Al Needham Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Al Needham Subject: Attention Beekeepers ion Georgia, USA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I received the following message. Anyone live in or near Rockdale County in Georgia that can be of help here ? He lives 25 miles east of Atlanta. Is there a bee club in this area? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Message I received: Harry Davis email=3Dhdavis9@bellsouth.net I have found a hive located in an old shack deep in the woods. The siding is almost gone and you can see the comb and the bees. I want to capture the hive and relocate. Looks like the ultimate as far as being easy to do. They are very accessable. How do I get them. What are my options?? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Harry is not currently a beekeeper but is very interested. So, lets' not let a potential recruit to the hobby slip by unaided. Please get in touch with him via his e-mail address directly. Thanks, Al Needham ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- Scituate, MA.,USA Visit " The BeeHive " Learn About Honey Bees And Beekeeping http://www.xensei.com/users/alwine ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 14:51:21 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Emergency Queens Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU In-Reply-To: <199904161716.NAA27068@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > On the other hand, my first beekeeping mentor used to raise all his own > queens from emergency cells.... The rest of the brood went into 5 frame > nucs. All were made the same, with three frames of brood, making sure > there were some eggs, one frame of honey, and one frame of comb or > foundation. These were carried to another yard. ... But the queen was > usually a well fed, well bred one. I think the key was that he always > did it on the spring flow, when bees are predisposed to raise queens > anyway and drones were plentiful. Thanks for the reply Dave. Now that you mention it, I do recall that you have been talking up the use of swarm cells. My son likes to use them too, and guess where he learned that? I wonder if you recall what percent of the queenless splits managed to raise queens, and what was the typical failure rate? I can't recall myself, and that would be of considerable interest here right now. I remember it was not ever very large if the splits were made on a spring flow, but forget the numbers. > I still raise some this way, but I prefer to use cells. I gather your preference for using cells is that the time without brood is reduced? In my experience it takes about 11 days to get a laying pattern from a ripe cell vs. 21 for a dequeened hive, and that 10 day difference can be important when building for a flow or pollination contract. > there are several on a frame, I may cut one or two off and push the top > of the cell into a frame of brood. I've had good results that way. Same here. I wonder if you worry about the age of a cell when handling it? Of course, one cannot know that information when finding them in a hive unless they are just being sealed, or about to emerge -- or can one? Does it worry you at all? I never gave it any consideration whatsoever, but the texts do caution about handling cells at some stages. Naturally, we don't bang them around much. > I don't automatically use cells from every colony. This is something I wonder about. One of the reasons I decided to forsake buying queens in any large number is that I had bad wintering losses in a few yards and the location leads me to believe that it might be from the queen stock we used for splits. Maybe they are poor winterers or maybe they cannot handle the tracheal mite. Whatever the reason, I think we paid for this loss and there is no reason to repeat the error now that the losers are culled. If we breed from good survivors, we should see continuing improvement. Each spring we find that only about 40% of the overwintered hives are splittable, and I always wonder about the rest. I always wonder if we have some hives that just manage to make it through the year and winter nicely, without making a contribution to our income. Pollination contracts make this less of a worry, though, since it is hive numbers we hare paid for and honey production is of less importance. allen ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 16:15:52 -0500 Reply-To: beekeeper@honeyhillfarm.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: wtroyer Organization: Honey Hill Farm Subject: Re: Queen Cages & Corks Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > Jerry Scott wrote, "Yesterday, I went to a new hive of mine to release the > queen from her cage. The packages I have had in the past had the queen > sealed in a cage with a candy plug. This package was the first I had ever > bought that the queen was sealed in with a cork! I'll never buy a package > with a queen cage sealed with a cork again." A small nail is very useful for prying out the corks so the candy is exposed. We often do this part in the workshop before taking the cages out to the hives. We then use the small nail to make a hole through the candy to facilitate queen emergence at the proper time. Considerable care must be used so the queen is not impaled or injured by the nail. Accordingly, we handle queen cages with ungloved hands only. Wade -- Web: http://www.honeyhillfarm.com Mail: beekeeper@honeyhillfarm.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 15:30:49 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: Emergency Queens Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU In-Reply-To: <199904172105.RAA13381@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I thought I should correct a few errors in my recent posts: Interestingly enough, the LISTSERV seems to have dropped a few lines from the following paragraph in my last post. Strangely, I saw the *entire* text intact in the version sent to me and the moderators for approval and can't imagine how the line got lost. I wonder if it is correct in the LISTSERV log. Anyone else spot any quirks like this? "I gather your preference for using cells is that the time without brood is reduced? In my experience it takes about 11 days to get a laying pattern can be important when building for a flow or pollination contract." Should have read: "I gather your preference for using cells is that the time without brood is reduced? In my experience it takes about 11 days to get a laying pattern from a ripe cell vs. 21 for a dequeened hive, and that 10 day difference can be important when building for a flow or pollination contract". Another blooper, this one entirely caused by local wetware, was in this statement from a previous post: "Also I went to to A I Root's 1991 edition (2nd) of the ABC and can see where the whole thing may have started BTW, he is a very lucid and delightful writer; the pedantic prose that taints later editions is missing and he writes from careful and keen observation". Everyone knows that A I Root wrote in the 1800's, not 1900's, and I should have said "1891'. Sorry. allen ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 16:51:31 -0500 Reply-To: beekeeper@honeyhillfarm.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: wtroyer Organization: Honey Hill Farm Subject: Re: Do Bees Respond to Scent? Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > McManus wrote, "Today while talking with another beekeeper and standing about > ten feet from the nearest hive, I got stung on the face by one of the little > girls that carried a grudge. I had not been working any of the hives or > disturbing them in anyway. The sun was bright and the temp. was 72 F., about > 1:30pm, flight was on in the full." Why the sting? I suspect that scent and color are both factors in stinging behavior. I have witnessed stinging when visitors using strongly scented soaps, deodorants, perfumes and/or hair sprays were present near the hives even under ideal flying conditions. I have experienced an infrequent sting whenever I wear a red shirt and walk directly in front of the hives. We generally have no sting problems when wearing light gray or light tan clothes and no strongly scented body products. Here, we use homemade soaps containing honey, beeswax and other natural ingredients for washing and showering. I hope this information will be helpful. Wade -- Web: http://www.honeyhillfarm.com Mail: beekeeper@honeyhillfarm.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 08:43:25 -0400 Reply-To: mpalmer@together.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Palmer Organization: French Hill Apiaries Subject: queens from swarm cells MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Raising queens from swarm cells has one big drawback. Like begetts like. I know a beekeeper in the Champlain valley who raised many queens from swarm cells. Served him well, because every year he had more and more colonies with cells to use. Figures doesn't it? Raise queens from colonies that swarm, and you get colonies that swarm. Mike ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 16:34:35 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ken Hoare Subject: Africanised Honey Bee MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Have just returned from a two week visit to Mexico, a holiday was needed (and an escape from an English mild wet winter) but I also wanted to experience the Africanised Honey Bee. My beekeeping host, Luis Rommel Beutelspacher, a friendship made with the benefits of this list, went to a great deal of trouble to allow me to gain that experience - and my findings??????? Well I don't know what all the hype is about as I have worked several dozen UK colonies (not mine I hasten to add) that are worse tempered than any of those in Central America. Agreed the AHB is a touchy creature as painfully discovered one day when walking into an apiary dressed in shorts and a short sleeved shirt. I was just following the practice of topping up troughs containing water to prevent access to the hives by ants. Obviously my approach was discernible to the bees for they quickly sent me to get better clothed. But seconds later the Maya Honey (the company operated by Rommel) apiarist was handling them with bare hands. Hopefully I will have photographs of my bare hand resting on a thickly covered comb and even scooping a handful of AHB from the bottom of the frame with a bare hand to dump them back into the box, and all without a single sting. They all appeared to form great clusters at the bottom of the frame during manipulations. The worse part for a puny Englishman who scuttles for shade if the temperature rises above 17 degrees C is when sweat runs so profusely at 40 degrees C from the forehead that it flows straight into the eyes, the eyebrows apparently being no protection. In my opinion the AHB may have made a few thousand bucks for the American film industry, but in doing so has brought the honey bee of any race into disrepute with their scare stories, this is my simple attempt to redress that balance. Don't get me wrong, I'm not volunteering for some sadistic sting therapy but can anyone tell me that there are worse examples of AHB than I have currently experienced, if so I will be scrapping the bottom of the "honey piggy bank" to find the fare to come and see them. Ken Hoare bees@kenlia.enta.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 13:34:36 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: queens from swarm cells Comments: cc: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit One thing I have never been able to reconcile with the argument that swarms beget swarms is that I have been taught that swarming is a natural instinct. As a beekeeper, we thwart that instinct by management. So why are bees that swarm in a bee yard different than bees that swarm outside that beeyard? Both are natural. Plus, don't swarms make the best starting hive? They build up fast and usually give excess honey the first year, compared to packages. And as far as selecting for swarming, isn't there a genetic pool out there in the drones that have a little to do with what kind of bees you end up with? The queen is not alone in shaping her offsprings hives. So, unless you are totally isolated, you are as likely to end up with couch potatoes as you are with swarmers. I have been inbreeding by splitting hives and letting them raise thier own queens for the past five years. I was told when I started that they would get mean. It has not happened. Instead, they are disease free and tracheal mite infestation has dropped to near zero. But a package of Italians I bought some seven years ago was about as mean a hive I have ever seen. I have come to the conclusion that Beekeeping is still more art than science. Bill T Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 15:20:15 -0400 Reply-To: String & Linda Monteith Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: String & Linda Monteith Subject: Re: queens from swarm cells Comments: To: mpalmer@together.net, BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Raise queens from >colonies that swarm, and you get colonies that swarm. Mike > I question the logic on this point only due to the fact that I have never raised a queen from swarm cells and my colonies swarm anyway. Is there any EVIDENCE that shows that it increases the tendency to swarm? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 17:07:43 EDT Reply-To: Pollinator@aol.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pollinator@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Emergency Queens Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 99-04-17 17:05:33 EDT, allend@internode.net (Allen Dick) wrote: << I wonder if you recall what percent of the queenless splits managed to raise queens, and what was the typical failure rate? I can't recall myself, and that would be of considerable interest here right now. I remember it was not ever very large if the splits were made on a spring flow, but forget the numbers.>> He got very good results if the weather for the mating flight was good. I think over 90% during good weather. A week long cold or rainy spell would give a lot of drone layers. Some would start okay, but be drone layers in a month or two. Bad weather is unusual here by the time of the first good flow. << > I still raise some this way, but I prefer to use cells. I gather your preference for using cells is that the time without brood is reduced? In my experience it takes about 11 days to get a laying pattern from a ripe cell vs. 21 for a dequeened hive, and that 10 day difference can be important when building for a flow or pollination contract.>> Exactly. Although, as you point out below, not all cells are "ripe." <<> there are several on a frame, I may cut one or two off and push the top > of the cell into a frame of brood. I've had good results that way. Same here. I wonder if you worry about the age of a cell when handling it? Of course, one cannot know that information when finding them in a hive unless they are just being sealed, or about to emerge -- or can one? Does it worry you at all? I never gave it any consideration whatsoever, but the texts do caution about handling cells at some stages. Naturally, we don't bang them around much.>> Gentle is the word. We don't even tip them upside down, unless they are obviously near hatch. <<> I don't automatically use cells from every colony. This is something I wonder about. One of the reasons I decided to forsake buying queens in any large number is that I had bad wintering losses in a few yards and the location leads me to believe that it might be from the queen stock we used for splits. Maybe they are poor winterers or maybe they cannot handle the tracheal mite. Whatever the reason, I think we paid for this loss and there is no reason to repeat the error now that the losers are culled. If we breed from good survivors, we should see continuing improvement. >> I believe that to be true. You will gradually adapt the bees to your conditions --- and your management style..... Also, I try not to buy from queen breeders who treat for tracheal mite, but some will lie about it. Most years I do introduce some new queens, just to keep from getting stagnent (or perhaps I should say inbreeding). I "rejected" a colony for breeding today. They were a two story colony, loaded with queen cells and looking real nice. Brood pattern was very good, no chalkbrood, lots of pollen and nectar in the brood cell corners. But they were savage! They backed me off four times, and that is really rare. I put on a long sleeve shirt, and carefully tucked it in. I was wishing I had some sleevies with me, because that's where they were heading. I also had a hole in my veil, which normally I just don't pay much attention to, but these guys were really good at finding it and trying to get into my ears, up my nose, etc. Do you suppose the killer bees have arrived? A couple cells had already hatched and I was only able to find and kill one virgin. I hope she had already done in the other. I never did find the old queen, though I suspect she was there. They probably would have hit the trees today. I destroyed 17 or 18 cells. And I made sure they were destroyed.I know I should have moved the entire hive away from my mating yards, because they still had drones. I used to have a dozen or more of these snots each spring. I have made it a point to get these requeened whenever possible, and it has been probably three years since I've had a hive back me off. I made four single deep colonies from this one, and gave each a mated, caged queen, plus a frame of brood with eggs, on it, because there were no eggs or young brood. If the old queen was still around, I hope the young one gets her. <> I have fewer dingalings than I had a few years ago, but I still cannot seem to get a consistant hive. No matter what we do, there are always some drone layers, an occasional snotty one, and (too many) those that just plain do not look good. You can make up 50 hives just as identical as you possibly can, and 40 of those will do fine. Two to four will become drone layers within the year, one or two will get chalkbrood, and the rest will just do poorly and look sick compared to the others. These get requeened in the summer (usually with a nuc) or culled in the fall. But they (dingalings) still show up again the next year. Dave Green SC USA The Pollination Home Page http://www.pollinator.com The Pollination Scene http://members.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop on the Internet (honey & beeswax candles) http://members.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 17:20:12 -0400 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jan Tempelman Organization: on trip in Chile Subject: Re: Need help, pollen collector and propolis collector Comments: To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > pollen collector what about http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/ChiliPolVal.html or for the advanced version http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/Chili8.html MAKE OF WOOD!! while is was/is produced for the "wood country" Chile. of the trapnetting himself, You can use any good netting with a 6.0 mm hole, sheets with 6.0 mm. holes, et, et, OR You can send a fax to p/a Verkruisen Casilla 21 VII Region Del Maule San Javier, Chile, Zuid Amerika fax: 00 56 73 322886 and ask for that specific pollentrap netting (about US$ 5,- ) >propolis collector As propolis collector use normaly plastic netting with 4 to 7 mm. holes lay it on the topframes. Drop it in a freezer (rolled) at - 20 gr. C and after a few houres the propolis will be hard and breakable. So only stretch the netting, and the propolis can be harvest......... greeting, jant ;-) 4 mm = 5/32 6 mm= 15/64 7 mm.= 9/32 - 20 gr. C. = - 4 gr. F. ;-) -- Chile op http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/Chili.html -- Rotterdam------ 51.55 N, 4.29 E-------------- San Javier------ 35.36 S, 71.44 W-------Chile- -- http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/index3.html Jan Tempelman mailto:jtemp@xs4all.nl -- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 17:47:00 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: M W Stoops Subject: Re: queens from swarm cells Comments: To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: Bill Truesdell >I have come to the conclusion that Beekeeping is still more art >than science. >Bill T >Bath, ME > I think that from the above message that we, as beekeepers, can change the art into a science by accurate and frequent notetaking. The more info that we can keep on individual hives, the better we can determine the possible whats and whys. I know that for beekeepers with a large number of hives this is difficult, if not impossible, to do. This is where we hobby beekeepers can help tremendously. We may know know what we are seeing nor why we are seeing it, but if accurately logged and described, those who do might be able to accurately diagnose and come up with some good conclusions which might help the entire bee industry. Mike Stoops Beekeeper WannaBe ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 05:54:35 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: Re: queens from swarm cells Comments: To: mpalmer@together.net Comments: cc: bee-l@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Mike and All: > Raise queens from >colonies that swarm, and you get colonies that swarm. Possibly, but not necessarily. Most colonies will make swarm cells if the queens are old and they are doing well, even "unswarmy" ones. And this is going to be especially noticeable if they are crowded for space. So if you took swarm cells from a young queen in an uncrowded colony I would agree. But if you took cells from older queens in crowded conditions I doubt if the selection pressure for swarminess would be very noticeable. Regards, Stan ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 07:17:28 -0400 Reply-To: jcrocket@alltel.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: James Lindstrom Subject: Swarming/Supercedure Behavior Comments: To: bee-l@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------A6CADCEB589B3C8DF43D1E5D" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------A6CADCEB589B3C8DF43D1E5D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello all-- My first post to the group, although I've been here for about a year now. I'm looking for additional data on causes of swarming and/or supercedure. As I understand it, a colony will either swarm or raise a new queen for one or more of three reasons: 1. Hive crowded/poorly ventilated 2. defective queen 3. disease such as nosema Is there another cause I have missed? I ask for the following reason. I have a hive of Carniolans. They swarmed at the end of the season last year. I found them with a new queen and numbers drastically reduced. They over wintered well, although numbers were low. I assume the older bees left with the other queen (although the original clipped and marked queen is gone). The new queen is currently laying and there are about 5 frames of brood, but right in the middle of a couple of frames are queen cells. From what I have read, these are "emergency cells" (Samaturo, Beekeepers Handbook) rather than actual swarm cells. These are the cells a colony will raise when the queen has suddenly died or is failing, but in this case the queen hasn't died. I see her almost every time I look into the top of the two deeps I'm using. She, in fact, seems to be doing her job as well as can be expected given this is western PA and the weather is taking its time getting warm for extended periods. I tested for mites and found there to be practically none, two in the quantity--200 or so--tested. (I used the ether jar method.) I am really baffled by this. What is causing these bees to raise a new queen? I still have a couple of days before the queen will hatch, so I can destroy it. But if the cause is still present, they'll likely raise another and I'll be so busy with the 15 new colonies I'm setting up that I may miss it. This is my second year of keeping bees, and I am in the process of expanding from two to 17 colonies. I am in the very southwestern corner of the state (Greene county). The hives are positioned in small clearings in the woods behind and in front of my house. This is purely rural here. All pastures and forests. But again, do bees raise queens for amusement on rainy days? I think not. Clearly something is going on here. Any observations/suggestions welcome. Jim Lindstrom Oak Forest, PA --------------A6CADCEB589B3C8DF43D1E5D Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="jcrocket.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for James Lindstrom Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="jcrocket.vcf" begin:vcard n:Lindstrom;James x-mozilla-html:FALSE adr:;;;;;; version:2.1 email;internet:jcrocket@alltel.net title:Proprietor, Oak Forest Apiary x-mozilla-cpt:;1 fn:James Lindstrom end:vcard --------------A6CADCEB589B3C8DF43D1E5D-- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 20:15:28 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Richard H. Glassford II" Subject: Help !! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Yesterday I just re-queened a few aggressive hives. When I stopped by the bee supply store on the way home they asked me if I put a small hole in the sugar cube of the queen cage. Well, I did not. I did not go back and put holes in the cubs because they would have been very very angry if I did. They were so aggressive I could not spend much time looking for the queen. Needless to say I could not find her. Should I go back in a few days and let the queen out or will they free her without a hole in the cube. Many thanks in advance, Rich ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 21:55:52 EDT Reply-To: KingBeeJRV@aol.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: KingBeeJRV@AOL.COM Subject: Fwd: queens from swarm cells Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_1ed20eab.244be728_boundary" --part1_1ed20eab.244be728_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --part1_1ed20eab.244be728_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: KingBeeJRV@aol.com From: KingBeeJRV@aol.com Full-name: KingBeeJRV Message-ID: <1ed20eab.244b577f@aol.com> Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 11:42:55 EDT Subject: Re: queens from swarm cells To: mpalmer@together.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 13 Reply-To: KingBeeJRV@aol.com Hello bee friends, My opinion: I have never believed raising queens from swarm cells breeds bees that are prone to swarm. Swarming is natural way a healthy hive ensures the survival of the species. All hives will raise swarm cells and swarm if they are healthy. Proper management of these healthy hive by splitting and adding new foundation is a good way to expand and ensure you keep the bees. Other wise they'll fly off into the wild. Seems the queen breeder and bee sellers are the people that I usually here negative comments about using swarms or swarm cells. Yet these same people will scale a 30 foot tree to catch the smallest swarm before it gets away. I don't see them killing the captured queen and replacing it with one from a queen breeder. For my self, I want those healthy swarms, their a gift. I always recommend taking preventive measures, medicate and treating for mites. I would do this even with package bees. I DISAGREE: Raising queens from swarm cells has one big drawback. If it wasn't for swarming there would bee no bee today. John R. Valentine CT --part1_1ed20eab.244be728_boundary-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 08:05:31 EDT Reply-To: Pollinator@aol.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pollinator@AOL.COM Subject: Re: queens from swarm cells Comments: To: mpalmer@together.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/18/99 8:53:17 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mpalmer@together.net writes: > Raising queens from swarm cells has one big drawback. Like begetts like. > I know a beekeeper in the Champlain valley who raised many queens from > swarm cells. Served him well, because every year he had more and more > colonies with cells to use. Figures doesn't it? Raise queens from > colonies that swarm, and you get colonies that swarm. I'm pretty skeptical of that last statement. I've been doing this occasionally for many years, and as a deliberate choice for four years. I think swarminess is more related to the age of the queen, the congestion of the hives, and the weather conditions. Bees that are strong enough to swarm (under the right conditions) are the ones I want. I sure don't want weak bees. Last year was what I call a swarmy season, where 80% of the hives in the yard were trying to go up about the same time. (Maybe I'd have been more inclined to agree with you, then.) This year the bees are quite laid back and I'm having trouble finding cells at times. They seem to be happily filling supers instead. About 15% of them have shown any serious inclination to swarm. A few colonies built cells early, and I expected them to go, but they tore them back down, or superceded instead. I've only had two colonies so far that actually succeeded in going up. (I hate working a colony a few days after a swarm. You've got nothing to work with, only a bunch of mean adult bees. I don't try to do anything else with them, just give them a frame or two of brood, including some eggs, just in case the queen doesn't get mated.) If I've been breeding in favor of swarmy bees, they'd have all been in the trees by now. Actually I really like what I've got now. There's no question in my mind that they are better bees than they were ten years ago, or at least better adapted to our conditions and my management. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html The Pollination Home Page: http://www.pollinator.com Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 07:45:40 -0400 Reply-To: BobCan@tdpi.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Subject: Methol Oil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I recently purchased some Menthol Spray from Bee_Commerce an online source of supplies and was wondering if anyone has had any knowledge of it's performance or other mentol sprays. The price was reasonable enough that I wanted to give it a try. I have looked else where for different methods but have not seen any items available like this. Is there other places to purchase mineral oils or items like Mentol Spray available to hobbyist? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 08:26:24 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Re: queens from swarm cells Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU In-Reply-To: <199904191226.IAA02894@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > > Raising queens from swarm cells has one big drawback. Like begetts > > like.... Raise queens from colonies that swarm, and you get colonies > > that swarm. > I'm pretty skeptical of that last statement. ... Bees that are > strong enough to swarm (under the right conditions) are the ones I want. > I sure don't want weak bees. I think there is something to be said for both points of view. I suppose that, over long periods of time, bees could tend to become very quick to swarm if bred carelessly, or under a system that rewards early swarming, however, I think the risk is somewhat over-rated in today's bee environment. In Dave's case, and that of many beekeepers, the bees are swarming due to provocation: they have run out of space due to their superior characteristics and have no other recourse except to stagnate. Dave specifies that he uses cells from such colonies, not poor colonies that are about to swarm. The bees they choose are not 'swarmy' bees IMO, they are up-and-at-em bees that happen to have earned the right to swarm honestly. The whole question of swarmy vs. non-swarmy bees is IMO another of those carry-overs from the time when bees were first kept in modern hives. before that, bees were kept in skeps and gums and swarming was a good thing. Even today. writers of bee books tend to look back over the literature and incorporate the ideas of previous writers, often without personal experience or deep critical thought on all the many diverse and complex subjects that such a book must cover. Old truths get passed along, even when they are less true. Todays bees in most civilized areas have been long selected for keeping in modern hives and with reasonable care taken in use of swarm cells, should not revert too much to early and frivolous swarming, unless perhaps, africanized stock comes into and area, and the beekeeper uses swarm cells from hives that are not superior in terms of filling the hive before going on to build cells. allen http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 10:54:40 EDT Reply-To: HeinzeDJAK@aol.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: HeinzeDJAK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: queens from swarm cells Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi! I'm afraid that I don't see any selective force in a colony that is swarming to make queens that are more likely to swarm. If we said that "swarminess" was genetic, then the real question you are looking at is whether, at the fertilization process, you get the "swarminess" gene(s). So to say there was a selective force, one would have to say that the old queen could choose which sperm to use with which egg, which doesn't make to much sense to me. If it is not genes, but simply how the queen "feels," then saying that queens that went with swarms were more likely to swarm is possible, but then there would be little difference between a queen that swarmed out of a supercedure situation than out of one which swarmed because of crowding or whatever other cause. This is but my second year in beekeeping, so most of my thinking comes out of books, and not practical experience. What I have written seems logical to me, but I realize that I could easily have forgotten something. So - if this is just crazy, then please tell me where I'm wrong. . . . . Dar >Possibly, but not necessarily. Most colonies will make swarm cells if the >queens are old and they are doing well, even "unswarmy" ones. And this is >going to be especially noticeable if they are crowded for space. So if you >took swarm cells from a young queen in an uncrowded colony I would agree. >But if you took cells from older queens in crowded conditions I doubt if the >selection pressure for swarminess would be very noticeable. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 11:25:00 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Genetic selection for swarming MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit According to Page & Laidlaw and Sue Cobey the tendency to swarm is definitely controlled by genetic factors. Moreover, it is one of those factors that is relatively easy to select for (or against) and to control in a given population. While it may be possible to select for bees that will not swarm, I do not believe breeders are attempting to do so. Instead, they are selecting for strains that will not swarm if given enough room. Of course, "enough room" is a subjective measurement, but if all colonies have the same amount of brood and super space and some swarm and others do not, those that do not may be termed as having a reduced swarming tendency. I have been following the swarming thread with interest. Personally, I do not believe that using swarm cells necessarily means that one is selecting for swarming. There are too many other variables to consider. A couple of those are, how much room was available? And what was the age of the queen? Certainly I would not want to use swarm cells from a current year queen, now would I want to use swarm cells from a hive that has three empty deeps as supers. Those examples, of course, are extremes. On the other hand, if I had a yard where virtually all my hives were preparing to swarm (due to lack of room) I would not hesitate to use swarm cells from any one of those hives. Unfortunately, I have had just that experience. Lloyd Lloyd Spear Owner, Ross Rounds(tm). The finest in comb honey production. http://www.rossrounds.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 11:22:00 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BOGANSRJ@APCI.COM Subject: News Article MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, There was a nice article in todays' Allentown (PA) Morning Call newspaper. It talked about the value of bees as pollinators and featured a young beekeeper from southeastern Pennsylvania, Andrew Dubas, who is also a member of BEE-L. The article mentions how pollination, not fertilizer, may be the answer to failing crops. The article can bed found at: http://www.mcall.com/html/news/regional/38068.htm Good job Andrew and good luck with your bee business. Another topic: April has been cool and unsettled in eastern Pennsylvania. It has been difficult getting days when you can open hives for a good inspection. I have checked a number in the past few weeks. They were all building up, including a 4 frame nuc that I wintered by itself. I came across one colony last week that was preparing to swarm. It is a bit early for swarms around here. The dandelion is not even blooming yet. This particular hive was ready to go. Queens were hatching on the frame I was holding and others were piping from their cells. I took some of the frames with queen cells and made nucs and placed them above an established colony using a double screen. As I said, the weather has not be good. My question is how long can (or will) these virgin queens stay in the hive before taking a mating flight. With the weather the way it is if they leave they may not return. I am not sure they will find enough drones for a good mating either. One other thing I have noticed is most hives came through winter with an excess of honey. I have been removing frames and replacing them in order to give the queens more room. Weather has definitely been strange the past few years. Ron Bogansky Kutztown, PA USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 12:30:56 -0500 Reply-To: bryant6@mail.ultraweb.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: The House of Bryant Subject: new to the list and to bees Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings- I am interested in getting more info on beekeeping. Can anyone recommend good books or websites for me to learn more about beekeeping? We recently purchased 9 acres and are wanting to put a small orchard and vegetable/herb garden in, would it be wise to have our own hive(s) to insure pollination? I also do alot of cooking with honey and make our own soap and deodorant. We have not seen bees there but did happen upon a hornets nest how would that affect our hive? Thank you, Lora ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 09:29:52 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Scott Moser Organization: MailCity (http://www.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Swarmed again! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings all: Three weeks ago, I had a hive swarm on me. I didnt have replacement queens yet, so I split the hive into 2 new hives, moved them, added a second deep box of foundation, and moved some brood up, as everyone, and the books told me. I checked them last week and found several nice queen cells, both supercedure, up on the comb, and swarm, on the lower edge of the frames. I wanted them to raise their own queen, which I would evaluate, and decide whether to keep or not. I cut several of them and left 4 of the better looking ones there. Yesterday, after 3 days of confinement to the hives due to the weather, I got to the yard to find a swarm! I found the hive they had come from, and in it were several queen cells that the wax had been removed from, only the coccoon remained. Curious, I popped one open to find a live, fully developed queen, which hopped out, and began to move around the frame. Upon further inspection, there were no eggs in the hive yet, and they hadnt moved up into the new deep body. I moved another frame up in hopes that they would expand upward. What went wrong with this? Should I have cut swarm cells low on the frame, and left replacement cells? Will the other queens in the hive kill one another, or will they keep swarming? When hiving the swarm in the same yard, about 1/2 went back to the original hive. Thanks all! Scott Moser Get your FREE Email at http://mailcity.lycos.com Get your PERSONALIZED START PAGE at http://my.lycos.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 15:12:59 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dennis van Engelsdorp Subject: Master Beekeeper Apprentice Level Spring Course Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Cornell University, as part of it's Master Beekeeping Program, will be holding several Apprentice Level Spring Courses over the next several months. Classes will be held throughout New York State. For more information please visit: http://128.253.66.35/dyce_laboratory/Master_Beekeeper_Program.htm Cheers Dennis van Engelsdrop Apiculture Extension Many thanks to Mike Griggs, President of Fingers Lake Beekeepers Club, for setting up the above pages. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 07:44:13 PDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Re: Help In-Reply-To: <199904191520.LAA06363@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Richard wrote > Should I go back in a few days and let the queen out or will they free her > without a hole in the cube. If you were here in Australia, my advice is not to worry. You have done the right thing by not putting a hole in the candy. The queen needs as long as possible in the cage to get the scent of the hive before she is released, particularly in your case where the hive is aggressive. There have been any cases in Australia of poor introduction because the queen has been released by the bees too soon and been rejected. In some cases, it is recommended that you leave the cork in the candy end for a day or too and then return to take the cork out. In your case, this would not be adviseable because of the agressive nature of the hive. Leave it a week before you return to see if the queen has been accepted. Use minimal smoke and shut the hive up immediately you see eggs. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 17:52:24 EDT Reply-To: CSlade777@aol.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: scent Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit They put artificial scents in almost everything nowadays. I suspect they don't test them on bees. Also you may have noticed the same scent smells differently when applied to different people. As an example "Musk" when used by some ladies smells to me just like blackberry and apple pie and is irresistable: on other ladies the same scent just isn't the same. Some years ago the makers of my usual hair shampoo brought out a "New Improved" version and changed the smell very slightly. I collected a number of stings to the head when nowhere near the bees before I realised what the trouble was and changed my brand. I suggest not using a mint spray - this may add to the problem, but think hard what soap, shampoo, after shave, toothpaste, detergent etc that you use may have changed lately. There may be a slow and painful process of elimination before the culprit is spotted. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 19:10:14 -0400 Reply-To: String & Linda Monteith Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: String & Linda Monteith Subject: Carnolian Propolis Crazed? Comments: To: jcrocket@alltel.net, BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is it my imagination, or do Carnolians make more propolis than other bees? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 23:52:47 EDT Reply-To: Pollinator@aol.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pollinator@AOL.COM Subject: Looking for bees, or have bees available? Pollination list. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Pollination Home Page has a listing of US and Canadian beekeepers who have bees available for pollination service. We have now begun a separate listing of growers who are seeking beekeepers. If you are looking for bees, or have bees available, please e-mail with your complete info. We are doing our best to get all listings on within 24 hours. The page address is: http://www.pollinator.com This is a free service; no endorsements or recommendations are expressed or implied. Pollinator@aol.com or Gardenbees@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html The Pollination Home Page: http://www.pollinator.com Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 10:52:04 +0100 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jan Tempelman Organization: in R'dam Subject: propolis collector <> error Comments: To: Florin Cimpoesu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit error, error, any plastic netting UP TO 4 mm max sorry, jan 4 mm. = 5/32 Jan Tempelman wrote: > >propolis collector > > As propolis collector use normaly plastic netting with 4 to 7 mm. -- Chile totaal op http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/chili.html -- Rotterdam------ 51.55 N, 4.29 E-------------- dus even ...............tel. 010-4775871 -- http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/index3.html Jan Tempelman mailto:jtemp@xs4all.nl -- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 12:31:42 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Karl Dehning Subject: Essential oils & swarm attractants Comments: To: bee-l@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="cc:Mail" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi BEE-l Who knows what freely available essential oils act as good swarm attractants, to be used in spring-time catch hives. Do they really help in catching "wild" swarms? Regards from down south. Karl D. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 12:41:48 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Karl Dehning Subject: Plywood langstroth hives??? Comments: To: bee-l@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="cc:Mail" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Bee-l 'ers Recently I was offered some VERY CHEAP (comparitivley) standard langstroth hives manufactured from 20mm waterproof plywood. Has anybody had something similar (plywood) in the field for some time? How does this compare to pine? Is it worth the one third price tag or is it a matter of you pay for what you get... Karl Dehning Cape Town South Africa ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 20:41:33 EDT Reply-To: KingBeeJRV@aol.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: KingBeeJRV@AOL.COM Subject: To clarify my last POST. Re: queens from swarm cells Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Bee friends, To clarify my last POST. To respond to some direct e-mails. I disagree with the statement: "Raising queens from swarm cells has one big drawback." John CT ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 08:26:43 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rod Billett Subject: Little bee's Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello all. I was in my delinqunet hive this weekend and notices a number of little bees. These bees were about 1/2 to 2/3 the size of normal worker bees. In total, I probably saw 10-15 of these little runts, and have not heard of this or seen it before. To avoid the "need more info replies" here is the info. Midlands of South Carolina, USA Italian Bees This hive built up early this spring, and swarmed around late March. A week later, it afterswarmed on me. It had many swarm cells on the frames, and I was waiting for it to requeen, but it has taken awhile to do so. This weekend, I think I finally saw some eggs, and very young larvae, but since the swarm, it has been broodless. Most of the brood frames is les than a year old, with a couple of old black frames, but I did not notice any small bees last year (or early this year). During the broodless period, i did inspections about once a week, looking at frames for eggs larvae, and it included tipping the frames over. Could these little bees be damaged queens from excesive frame manipulations? There has been a lot of talk about how easy it is to damage them once the swarm cells are capoped? Rod Billett Lexington, SC 2nd year hobbiest ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 08:50:01 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Organization: The Beekeepers Subject: Extender Patties -- One Year Later Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Last Sunday I checked the 48 hives that I installed last spring on equipment that was salvaged from hives that had had AFB. The frames were ones that did not have scale, but which may have been right beside ones that did. The bees were three pound packages from Australia. They were installed, and given one extender patty made as per my website (below) and never treated at all again until this spring, one year later. Of the 48, 8 died over winter -- for whatever reason. There was no sign of AFB in any hive, alive or dead, when I looked at them Sunday. All the other hives were clean. Most were so strong that I had to reverse them and -- in some cases -- add a third. I realise that there are some concerns about extender patties, and also some concerns about using antibiotics as agricultural prophylactics, however I have to report that it works for me. One patty a year (made and admistered properly) seems to do the trick. In my experience, administering oxytet by dusting or syrup feeding can be almost as effective, but either method requires many repeat visits. Moreover, the rate of failure is higher. This results in much more drug use, and continued presence of the spore forming stage of the disease. FWIW. allen http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 09:33:53 -0600 Reply-To: darn@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: darn@FREENET.EDMONTON.AB.CA Subject: Re: Plywood langstroth hives??? Comments: To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology In-Reply-To: <199904201117.HAA24025@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi Karl: I have used 3/4" fir plywood for hive bodies and feeders for about 5 years. The hive bodies were assembled with lamello biscuits and waterproof glue. The edges were sealed with thinned spar varnish and the outsides were given three coats of latex enamel. They seem to hold up as well as the conventional ones made up of pine with nailed finger joints. The bees seem to like them. I have not had any luck using plywoods other than the fir. The glue used in the manufacture of the plywood seems to be the crucial thing. It is also worth noting that our climate is quite dry and we have no problems with rot or insects. Best regards, Donald Aitken Edmonton Alberta Canada ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 11:57:08 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "John K. Warsaw" Subject: Treated Plywood for Bottom Boards? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Has anyone tried making bottom boards from pressure treated plywood with pressure treated lumber around the edges? Any opinions? I've read different views on the use of pressure treated lumber, and would paint it with oil-base primer and topcoat to help seal in the chemicals. (I'm in the USA, where pressure treated lumber is CCA.) I'd appreciate any thoughts or suggestions. Thanks! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 13:36:02 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rod Billett Subject: Re: Little bee's Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Dr. Rodriquez wrote >> Seems to me like you have Varroa mites. Stunted, wingless bees are two of the signs usually seen with Varroa. My first thought was varroa as well, but the little bees had nice little wings as well. Even so, I did a random drop sticky board test: 24 and 48 hour checks showed no sign of mites. Even with the little wings, the gal could fly quite well. The little bee was properly proportioned, just looked like it was shrunk! Rod Billett Lexington, SC ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 12:34:51 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Nathan Brown Subject: Re: Plywood langstroth hives??? Comments: To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Karl Dehning wrote: > > Recently I was offered some VERY CHEAP > (comparitivley) standard langstroth hives manufactured from 20mm waterproof plywood. Has anybody had something similar (plywood) in the field for some time? How does this compare to pine? In reply to your question, I made several boxes from 3/4 inch (approximately 18mm) about nine years ago. I used a rabbit joint for the corners and covered the corners with tin flashing. I also used a cleat on the ends for handles. These boxes are still in great shape today. In fact, they are in better shape than some standard pine boxes I made at the same time. Our climate here is usually a bit dry in the summer but can be quite wet at other times of the year. > _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 15:29:43 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Apiservices Subject: Beekeeping statistics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi all, Three small messages from the Virtual Beekeeping Gallery: 1) you can now access 9 new pages about world honey production, imports and exports at: http://www.beekeeping.com/databases/honey-market/ (with Martin Braunstein's collaboration - Mercado Mundial de la Miel) 2) and for more figures on other subjects, you can access the European beekeeping census at: http://www.beekeeping.com/databases/europe_92_96.htm 3) with the above novelties, the Virtual Beekeeping Gallery now has more than 2,800 files on line! How to find the new files? Go to: http://www.beekeeping.com/galerie/new.htm Best regards, gilles.ratia@apiservices.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 22:10:45 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tony Dixon Subject: Re: Plywood langstroth hives??? Comments: To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I have used plywood hive bodies an solid wood side by side. In my opinion the solid wood is much superior, plywood does not absorb moisture like solid wood because of the layers of waterproof glue. For wintering they are very poor because of condensation. I still have some of them in use for honey supers or as shells for feeding in the spring or for storage of frames in the honey house. On the positive side plywood is strong and is dimensionaly stable and it does last a long time. Mine are 21 years old. Perhaps you would have better luck with plywood in a warmer climate. Tony Dixon Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 16:50:56 PDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: CCA treated timber In-Reply-To: <199904210622.CAA12386@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit John Warsaw wrote > Has anyone tried making bottom boards from pressure treated plywood with > pressure treated lumber around the edges? Any opinions? I've read > different views on the use of pressure treated lumber, and would paint it > with oil-base primer and topcoat to help seal in the chemicals. (I'm in > the USA, where pressure treated lumber is CCA.) Work done in the 1970's in the USA showed that timber (lumber) treated with CCA (copper chrome arsenate) could give a residue in hive products. This was for timber used in boxes and not painted. Even though the CCA formulation is supposed to have the arsenic bonded in an insoluble form by the chromium, trials have shown that there is still a certain amount of leaching of the arsenic. This would be the case inside a beehive, particularly if there is condensation. The opinion of our woood chemists here in Australia at the time was that by painting the exposed surfaces of the timber, you would stop any leaching of the arsenic. It should not bleed through the paint if the timber is dry. So you would need to ensure that the timber is dry. If possible, the timber should be treated rough, dried and then dressed to remove any CCA salts that may be on the surfaces. This is then painted. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 22:08:50 +1200 Reply-To: nickw@beekeeping.co.nz Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Subject: Re: CCA treated timber Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU In-Reply-To: <199904210934.FAA13373@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > The opinion of our woood chemists here in Australia at the time was that > by painting the exposed surfaces of the timber, you would stop any > leaching of the arsenic. It should not bleed through the paint if the > timber is dry. > > So you would need to ensure that the timber is dry. If possible, the > timber should be treated rough, dried and then dressed to remove any CCA > salts that may be on the surfaces. This is then painted. The concensus in NZ, backed by research in the 1960s (I think) by Trevor Palmer-Jones (I think) is that arsenic treated timber will lead to bee deaths, even if painted. The problem will not be demonstrated every season, but the leaching of the arsenic salts will ultimately result in bee deaths. In NZ, the recommendation, pretty generally accepted, is that arsenic treated timber is *not* used in any part of a beehive that comes into direct contact with bees. I'd have to qualify that with Trevor's comments related to 'dry timber' - it would certainly enhance the chances for possible use if the timber was (1) absolutely dry and (2) painted. My personal preference is to us untreated, but if (1) and (2) are true, it might not cause such a problem... (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- nickw@beekeeping.co.nz (/ NZ Beekeeping http://www.beekeeping.co.nz 'Order' files from an autoresponder... NZ Bkpg: 'At a Glance'? Email to: glance@beekeeping.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 13:04:04 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tom Elliott Subject: Re: News Article - Another topic Comments: To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ron, Faced with that situation, I would be inclined to make up a nuc with the old queen and no queen cells. Then if there is any problem with the new queen you can recombine and await better weather. Tom -- "Test everything. Hold on to the good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21) Tom Elliott Chugiak, Alaska U.S.A. beeman@gci.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 23:20:46 -0400 Reply-To: dronebee@pilot.infi.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez" Organization: Virginia non-profit honey bee research corporation Subject: Re: Little bee's Comments: To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------E9CAC8AE4D9980A7C3178906" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------E9CAC8AE4D9980A7C3178906 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Rod. Thanks for your reply to my e-mail You should check larvae (both drones and worker larvae for the presence of Varroa mites. It is very simple to inspect a 10 square cm area. If you inspect one hundred cells and do not find Varroa mites you might feel better. However, a negative test is no assurance that you don't have mites. Keep checking! About those small bees. They could be robbers from a "small" bee colony (other than yours). Also, bees which have been without food for a long time get small guts and look smallish. As soon as they get a good engorging, they look bigger. However, engorging will not do anything for the wings, they might look smaller in fact. Good luck. Dr. R. --------------E9CAC8AE4D9980A7C3178906 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="dronebee.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Dr. Pedro P. Rodriguez Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="dronebee.vcf" begin:vcard n:;dronebee@pilot.infi.net x-mozilla-html:FALSE version:2.1 email;internet:dronebee@pilot.infi.net x-mozilla-cpt:;0 fn:dronebee@pilot.infi.net end:vcard --------------E9CAC8AE4D9980A7C3178906-- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 15:27:42 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tom Speight Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 18 Apr 1999 to 19 Apr 1999 (#1999-25) Comments: To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology In-Reply-To: <199904200404.AAA20094@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <199904200404.AAA20094@listserv.albany.edu>, Automatic digest processor writes >I'm looking for additional data on causes of swarming and/or >supercedure. As I understand it, a colony will either swarm or raise a >new queen for one or more of three reasons: > >1. Hive crowded/poorly ventilated Surely this is two reasons. Crowding can be caused by too many bees and/or brood if queen is prolific, storage space for either nectar or pollen. If the bees are confined to the hive by inclement weather in a hive with some undrawn foundation it could give the same effect as overcrowding. Poor ventilation can be caused in many different ways including siting the hives with no shade in the heat of the day. >2. defective queen Defective by damage, age, lack of queen pheromone or sperm (Not always through age, could be a poor mating) > >3. disease such as nosema Why should they swarm because of nosema? I haven't heard that one before. In the spring when nosema is more easily diagnosed it's the normal swarming season anyway. >Is there another cause I have missed? How about: location, weather, nectar flow, genetic trait (races or strains of race), I've even heard of, but not seen, 'hunger swarms', the ratio of young/old bees. Once the bees have decided to swarm, it can be difficult trying to dissuade them. Destroying queen cells is no guarantee they will not make more attempts. Strangley, although these are all possible elements in swarming, none of them mean that swarming will occur. Probably a combination of factors. If your queen was clipped, I would suggest that she came out with the original swarm and was lost, the swarm will then have returned until a virgin hatched and led them off. -- Tom ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:21:11 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Greg Hankins Subject: Hop Clover (Trifolium agrarium) Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Spoke today with a state bee inspector from our neck of the woods (Montgomery County, NC, in the south central part of that state, near the SC line). He mentioned that a small area encompassing parts of 3-4 counties hereabouts produces a unique yellow honey that is slow to crystallize. I obtained such a honey from last year's spring flow. He suggested that the source might be a small, yellow-flowered plant that seems common in pastures around here in the spring. The pasture adjacent to my beeyard indeed has many such flowers, along with plenty of Dutch White Clover. The plant appears to be Hop Clover (Trifolium agrarium) which my Audubon guide tells me is a Europeam import found mostly in the Northeast US blooming June-September. I'm guessing the difference in latitude could account for earlier bloom down here. Anyone have any experience with this plant as a honey source? I'd appreciate any and all info. Greg ______________________________________________________________ Greg Hankins Happy Hank's Honey House ghankins@ac.net Mt. Gilead, North Carolina ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:12:58 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Marc Sevigny Subject: supering advice Comments: To: bee MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hello, I live in Central Massachusetts. I opened my hives the past weekend to check on their status. All three were doing quite well, no evidence of mites, plenty of honey stores remaining. I was checking to see if I need to reverse the hive bodies (2 deeps on each). I notices lots of larvae, both capped and otherwise. There was an enormous amount of brace comb between the supers that was filled with brood (what a mess to scrape). I got the sense (although I am a novice) that the hive was appearing congested. I did not reverse, since the bottom supers contained plenty of brood, too, so the queens were laying throughout the two bodies and there was plenty of honey in the top supers. My question: is it wise/OK/advisable to add a honey super now? The honey flow here doesn't begin for another 2-3 weeks, but the population seemed high. Will adding another super relieve the congestion? Is it OK to use a queen excluder to keep the queen from moving up into the empty comb and begin laying there? I have had this problem in previous years. Will the congestion be alleviated by a honey super on top of an excluder? What is standard protocol under these conditions? Thanks, Marc ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 10:46:28 -0400 Reply-To: info@beeworks.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Emergency Queens. There has been a number of posts regarding emergency queen cells recently and IMO the discussion became clouded with other references to swarm cells. Not the same thing at all. So with the indulgence of our senior members I would like to attempt to clarify the matter. Lets us consider two areas. The first one deals with a hive, quite happy with the queen, no superscedure intended, space to grow etc well ventilated, in other words a normal hive. Suddenly, unexpectedly the queen disappears, or is squashed, or it might be the hive is split to make increase. Panic reigns, the bees are queenless, the hive is is in decline. Almost instantly 'emergency' cells are started, often on larvae too old to produce a full queen, but acceptable to lay eggs, if only a few. Often very small and lacking the strength and pheremones to maintain a full sized hive, causing more problems. Remember the first out gets the rest, even if she's a runt.But the bees will achieve what they need, a queen in a hurry. Then after a few days or even weeks a superscedure cell will be started. The second area. A hive, over crowded, under ventilated, an aging queen, and a keeper not aware of what is happening,decides it's time to increase, and so starts cell production. There will be plenty of eggs and larvae to choose from, lots of food and young bees to feed those cells, normally at a time when there are plenty of drones for mating. These are not 'emergency' cells and will produce well made queens, large body size, full compliment of all that's necessary. Two different scenarios, producing, in one case acceptable queens but the other only producing a temporay solution. Comments? ***************************************** The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada.L3V 6H1. Phone (705)326 7171 Fax (705)325 3461 David Eyre, Owner e-mail http://www.beeworks.com This months special:-Therapik, soothing aid for stings. **************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 10:50:20 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Keeler, Lisa" Subject: What bee is this? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I was out watching my bees taking pollen from the pussy willows and I noticed that they were not the only bee doing this. The other bees were distictly different from my yellow Italian honey bees. The other bees were about 1/3 the volume of my bees, but generally the same shape and features as my bees except that the entire body was black and the tail was shiny and possibly more pointed. The thorax was lightly covered in white or light yellow hairs much less dense than my furry bees. I've seen these bees other years on my property and would like to know if they are a feral version of honey bee or some other species (genus?) entirely. I have only had my bees for 3 years so I really don't think that they owe their exsistence to anything I have done. Just curious! Lisa K. Zionsville, IN ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 09:30:39 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Scott Moser Organization: MailCity (http://www.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: (No Subject) Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings all, My local mentor is out of town, on vacation, so I figured what better place to pose this question but to this panel. I have one hive that is very populous, and I am concerned that it may swarm. Last Saturday, I requeened the hive, and it appears that they have accepted her. The upper hive body (deep) is essentially one frame of brood, and 2 partially drawn frames of foundation. The rest is undrawn foundation. Prior to introduction, they were trying to supercede, and I found a couple swarm cells, which I destroyed. Yesterday, I found some partial swarm cells and replacement cells, but the new queen had only been out a day. I destroyed these. Will the hive swarm and take my new queen with them? If so, what measure can I take to lessen the chance? Thanks, Scott Moser Get your FREE Email at http://mailcity.lycos.com Get your PERSONALIZED START PAGE at http://my.lycos.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 14:01:06 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Greg Hankins Subject: Archives Gone? Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I just attempted a search of the bee-l archives (to get any info on hop clover) and received in return a message that said there are no archives for bee-l. I've often searched the archives before. What's up? Anyone? Greg ______________________________________________________________ Greg Hankins Seven Lakes Times, L.L.C. ghankins@ac.net P.O. Box 602 Voice: (910)673-0111 1008 Seven Lakes Drive Fax: (910)673-0210 Seven Lakes, NC 27376 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 12:16:45 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dave Pehling Subject: Re: What bee.... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi Lisa, Sounds like you may have Mason bees (_Osmia lignaria_). See http://gardening.wsu.edu/library/inse006/inse006.htm for pictures and info. Cheers, Dave Pehling Extension Analyst ============================================ | W.S.U. COOPERATIVE EXTENSION-SNOHOMISH CO. | | 600 128TH ST. S.E. | | EVERETT, WA. 98208 U.S.A. | | PHONE - (425)338-2400 | | FAX - (425)338-3994 | | EMAIL pehling@wsu.edu | ============================================ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 21:35:34 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Kai-M. Engfer" Subject: Garth's last message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Hi all, could anyone of You please send me Garth's latest message. I have lost it through a computer crash. Thank You so much. Kai-M. Engfer, Tel. 04347-8861 \| Ostlandstr. 1, http://insel.heim.at/mainau/330017 -|||8< D-24247 Mielkendorf /| ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 14:56:25 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Do mite resistant bees exist? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Matthew Westall of Castle Rock, CO wrote (in part): >While each summer I'm investing a great deal of time pulling out >surviving feral hives, I'm becoming increasingly at-odds with the logic >on why these bees are still alive. How much am I investing in 'chance'? ******* Years ago we noticed no more honey bees foraging within the city limits of Santa Barbara, which has an ordinance against beekeeping. A few years ago, though, we again had foraging bees. I have checked extensively but have found no evidence of beekeeping in the city limits. A year ago Paul Cronshaw and I began logging swarms when reported and have recorded swarms all over the city again, even in the downtown region. Paul has hived many of those feral swarms. More than a year ago, he and I removed a very large feral colony from up in a small tree, filled two hive bodies with the brood combs, and moved those two colonies to a nearby neighbor's yard. Yes, varroa exists in those colonies, but we have not treated it for more than a year. Obviously, neither did anyone treat that colony when it was up in the tree for more than two years. Today I worked those two colonies. Both had swarmed within the last month, but both colonies thrived --- each with a full deep super of sealed honey (another such super had been extracted last December). I carefully insected the young bees in the brood area of each colony but saw no varroa mites. Nor did I see bees with wrinkled wings. The upshot: We could have a rather weak strain of varroa mites in our area. All aspects considered, though, it seems to me that we might have a population phenomenon here --- rather than simply an individual or a colony selection for resistance to varroa. If so, tests of any kind run on items such as hygienic behavior or colony genetic makeup might yield very little. Those of us somewhat remote from managed colonies might see a resurgence of resistant feral colony populations --- where queens mate with drones from similar such colonies. Accordingly, Paul has established an apiary in a remote area at the base of the mountain range behind us, where he is moving all captured swarms that have survived without treatment. There the queens and drones from like colonies can interbreed. Unfortunately, this has become a race against time, since the latest Africanized honey bee find was only 50 miles away. Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 963-8508 (home phone) 967 Garcia Road (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93103 **************************************************************************** * * "Nature only answers rightly when she is rightly questioned." * * Goethe **************************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 00:28:58 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: P-O Gustafsson Subject: Re: Emergency Queens. Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Eyre wrote: > There has been a number of posts regarding emergency queen cells recently > and IMO the discussion became clouded with other references to swarm > cells. Not the same thing at all. > Two different scenarios, producing, in one case acceptable queens but the > other only producing a temporay solution. I fully agree with David here. I see no reason for leaving to the bees to make a new queen in a split when it will take the beekeeper only a couple of minutes to produce a cell from a selected breeder queen. To produce your own cells is little work and well spent time. Remember that there will be genetically pure drones from a F1 queen, so those queens hatching out will mate with drones that are of last years breed. By using a number of breeders and altering them you will get uniform and pleasant bees without much work. I have done this for some time and I'm very pleased with the result. There are also ways to put cells into queen right hives for requeening this way with little work involved. -- Regards P-O Gustafsson, Sweden beeman@algonet.se http://www.algonet.se/~beeman/