From MAILER-DAEMON Fri Sep 17 12:52:14 1999 Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27303 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:52:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA11092 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:52:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199909171652.MAA11092@listserv.albany.edu> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:52:08 -0400 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8d)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG9905B" To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Content-Length: 195111 Lines: 4327 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 22:10:45 -0600 Reply-To: fltdeck1@ix.netcom.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Matthew Subject: Re: Pays to watch your P's & Q's - even with swarms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all! Glad to you have you back with the living Garth. Today we finally had a break in the weather in Colorado and swarm season drifted upon us! I just got back from a house which I showed the home-owner how 'nice' the bees are when in a swarm cluster by placing my bare hand into the mix. Open jaw and insert foot, because I was immediately met by angry bees on my forehead, arm and finger as I retracted my hand. In all my swarms, I've never been stung until now - unless of course, I crush one. Apparently, the longer story goes that these bees have been tormented by neighborhood kids for the last four days. The swarm found several places to cluster around the house and one unfortunate bush was the stage for a malady of sticks and rocks thrown or dropped upon them. Sometimes it doesn't pay to take the nature of bees for granted. You just might find the bees know something you don't. Matthew Westall (with two 'nice' & one 'not-so-nice' swarms to show for today) // Earthling Bees >8(())))- "Take me to your feeder" \\ Castle Rock, CO, USA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 10:14:57 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Murray McGregor Subject: Re: Walk-Away Splits In-Reply-To: <199905071751.NAA18287@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 I would just like to back up what Allen says about 'walk-away' splits. We use a similar method as our normal way of achiving winter loss replacement, increase etc. The variation to Allens method (which we have used) is that we always find the queen first, and as we have rather fewer colonies than Allen, AND mainly on single brood boxes, AND all the queens are marked as the first spring job, it is a task we can undertake in just a couple of minutes a hive. Simply place your new hive on the location of the parent hive, add three bars of assorted age brood, which should be completely free of all traces of swarm preparations, and fill up with empty (preferrably drawn) combs. Ensure that the old queen is in this part. Remove the by now queenless part to another part of the yard, thus allowing all the flying bees to go back to mother. Introduce a protected mature queen cell into the old brood nest and close it up and go away. (Adding extra deeps or supers to either half is entirely determined by the prevailing conditions.) At next visit it is normal to find that the avalability of space, combined with the return of the flying bees, has caused the old queen to go into overdrive on the laying, returning the colony to full strength quite quickly. The part with the cell has usually hatched and may even be laying, but if for some reason the cell fails there has aways been the emergency cell back up situation. This part has generally had the majority of the nurse bees and so will usually rear a pretty good emergency queen. This is just a slightly more labour intensive variation on Allen's system, but we find it to be just that bit more reliable in its results. I appreciate the time (and thus cost) of finding queens in large, strong, double deep colonies, and, having tried it that way as well, would not hesitate to endorse Allens view. We operate in a somewhat different environment and, with singles being the norm in early season, can afford (just) the time and extra labour to do it our way. Basically the same idea though! One small drawback if you keep your bees in populated areas is that the part raising the young queen can sometimes throw casts. If the protected cell hatches, but they have also raised emergency cells, it occasionally happens that a cast is thrown rather than allowing first queen out to destroy the others. I appreciate that to a purist this can seem bad, and it does lose you the selected queen, but from our experience it ends up making little difference to the achivement of the split by seasons end. The less mature the introduced cell the greater the chance of this casting happening. If the cell hatches within the first two days or so the new colony is still depleted of flying bees (which tend to be the more ill-natured) and acceptance is almost 100%. To us it is easy, quick, and economical. It is not 10% guaranteed, but will work well in at least 90% of cases. Thus it is VIABLE, which most of the more theoretically based, and labour intensive, systems which will give a higher success rate, are not. Kind regards to all. Murray ps. Have been quiet for a while and will remain so in the most part throughout the summer. We are well into spring build up here with the rape (canola) flowering. It is also our third consecutive day of rain after a good spell, so I have time to sit at the computer this morning instead of getting out to the bees. -- Murray McGregor ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 08:00:48 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pollinator@AOL.COM Subject: Re: 7 swarms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/7/99 10:43:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Mark_Gosswiller@BC.COM writes: > at least I know I got the queen. But I > also found in 4 of the 7 hives, queen cells (2 to 3 of them) on the side of > a couple of the frames. Not on the bottom of the frames. > If everything that I have read and learned from people on this list about > the queen in a swarm, then I must believe that the queens that I have in the > 7 hives are the old queens and she isn't doing a very good job and is > probably being replaced by bees. When a queen swarms, she is then spent, and rarely will survive long. In most cases the hives supersede the old queens without interruption. The only thing that would normally concern you is that the new queens have decent weather to get mated, then the hive will go on. It's amazing to me that a swarm, issued early in the season, will go through the process of selecting and building an entirely new home, supersede the queen, and become more productive by the end of the season, than the original hive they left. If given a choice, I'd always select the swarm over the hive that cast a swarm. You would not think there to be an advantage for the swarm. Both wind up with young queens, and the old hive usually still has hatching brood, ready made comb, and some food reserves. Perhaps they shed some pathogens in the process....? Or maybe the long interuption of the brood cycle in the old hive is more significant. I hate working on a hive, that swarmed a week or two ago. They usually have a queen, but you cannot guarantee it. They are snotty as all get out. I usually just give them a frame of brood with eggs, and close them up. >My question is this: Should I just let > them replace her on their own or should I purchase some queens? What are > the pros and cons of each.... It's less risk to let nature take its course. If any are questionable, give them a frame with eggs. I often give a swarm a frame of sealed brood (making sure there are a few eggs) to start with. This prevents absconding, and guarantees them a source of emergency queens, should the queen not be able to get going again. Of course I can't check my bees as often as many hobbyists. Note all the recent discussion on queen introduction and the loss rates. I only used a few purchased queens this year, but lost about half of them (that was extreme, and due I presume, to five solid days of cold rain). I am always pretty disappointed at the loss rate of these expensive queens, but do use a few to keep new blood coming in, and for quick late-spring replacements, when we are really pushed by the pollination season. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html The Pollination Home Page: http://www.pollinator.com Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 22:17:24 +0000 Reply-To: aweinert@tpgi.com.au Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: aweinert Subject: Coanola - pollination and honey Comments: To: bee-l@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT We are looking at working with some growers pollinating canola crops. We would appreciate information and comments on the following questions 1 Is there a premium or penalty on canola honey? 2 Are there any special characteristics about canola honey? 3 Is is worth while collecting the pollen from canola crops for re-sale or for feeding to bee's later? 4 How much is charged per hive for pollinating canola crops and how long is the pollination period? 5 What is the recommended stocking rate for canola.? 6 Is much propolis made from canola crops? 7 What is the improvement in yield due to pollination of Canola? i.e. to the farmer. 8 What special preparations are necessary to prepare the bees for the best results for both the farmer and the beekeeper. Thanks in advance Andrew Weinert 25 Logan Street Atherton, 4883 Queensland Australia phone 07 4091 4667 aweinert@tpgi.com.au ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 07:31:53 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Coanola - pollination and honey Comments: To: aweinert@tpgi.com.au In-Reply-To: <199905081240.IAA28896@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > We are looking at working with some growers pollinating canola > crops. Pictures and info at http://www.Internode.net/HoneyBee/ Take the 'Alberta Pollination' link. > We would appreciate information and comments on the following > questions > > 1 Is there a premium or penalty on canola honey? There are many varieties of canola. The newest varieties produce very nice white honey (water-white in a decent flow). It usually fetches a little less (5c CAD) less than clover, which gets the best price. > 2 Are there any special characteristics about canola honey? Under some, but not all conditions, it may granulate rock-hard within a week in the comb. Fast flows and cold nights are associated with this phenomenon. Extracting equipment left undrained over a weekend in late August here may be set up by Monday. Early in th eseason, and in warm conditions, this does not ocur. > 3 Is is worth while collecting the pollen from canola crops for > re-sale or for feeding to bee's later? AFAIK, it is good pollen, but maybe others can say more. > 4 How much is charged per hive for pollinating canola crops and how > long is the pollination period? Depends entirely on the situation. We are surrounded by canola everywhere here in July. No one pays to pollinate commercial grade canola crops AFAIK. On the other hand, we are involved in pollinating hybrid seed crops that *depend entirely* on bees carrying pollen betweeen *separate rows* of flowers. That is precision work and happens at a time when we would normally get our main (and often only) flow. Thus the income from it must cover our whole year's expenses. Because of the stocking rate, we usually only get enough honey to be a big nuisance at current prices. Two years ago, the prices were such that 30 pounds per hive was attractive and added to the bottom line. Now, handing, transporting, and extracting costs eat a lot of that up. The seed companies are presently paying $110 CAD ($75 USD) per hive. > 5 What is the recommended stocking rate for canola.? They have used rates as high as 6 hives per acre in Southern Alberta. However, the current level is three/acre. This is being studied this year by Agrevo, since there does not seem to be a definite, proveable co-relation between the stocking rate and yield. What is definite, though is that late delivery or lack of bees altogether results in huge drops in yield. The first flowering period is critical to good yields. Bees must be there from the start, although they can be phased in as the bloom increases. The minimum standard in Southern Alberta is two standard boxes with 10 frames well covered with bees and 5 frames with good brood areas at July 1st. Bloom starts about June 20th and lasts until July 20th. I have observed that there is quite a bit of variability in the strengths of hives delivered to the fields. As you can see from the pictures at my site, we delivered a whole lot more than the minimum and had to super to 5 to 7 high for a brief period. Other suppliers delivered in two boxes and added only one super during the whole flowering and did not have to do any honey pulling while on the pollination. We shared a field with leaf cutter bees. They are fairly successful canola pollinators, but have a very limited range and are sensitive to cool weather. Our stocking rate there was reduced to allow for the work done by the leafcutters. I don't know how serious a competitor the leafcutters are for nectar and pollen. > 6 Is much propolis made from canola crops? Propolis AFAIK does not come from canola, but rather trees and other plants around here. > 7 What is the improvement in yield due to pollination of Canola? > i.e. to the farmer. This depends on the variety. Here I will simply repeat what I have heard, and that is pretty anecdotal: Argentine field varieties tend to benefit very little from pollination; Polish types may benefit in some (windless?) conditions up to 30% (that is a pretty theoretical extreme). Argentine gives more nectar than Polish, which may not even sometimes give any significant amount. I wouldn't go by the above too strongly. I think I remember some of it from the pollination bible, and that is getting pretty old. I think it is on-line at www.AIRoot.com > 8 What special preparations are necessary to prepare the bees for > the best results for both the farmer and the beekeeper. The usual. Hives must be light enough to be moved and strong enough to be good pollinators. they must be worked during the bloom to ensure they don't plug up. I think Dave has some good info at his pollination pages: The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html The Pollination Home Page: http://www.pollinator.com allen ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 11:35:48 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Walk-aways MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Allen, you said "Popping in (protected) cells at time of splitting reduces this 21-day delay to as little as 11, which is not a whole lot worse than the five or so that is average for mated queen introductions." How are you protecting the cells? I've heard of using hair curlers, but that would require a trip back to the split. Is making a trip back what you are doing? Lloyd Lloyd Spear Owner, Ross Rounds(tm). The finest in comb honey production. http://www.rossrounds.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 10:41:55 -0600 Reply-To: allend@internode.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Walk-aways In-Reply-To: <199905081611.MAA00437@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Allen, you said "Popping in (protected) cells at time of splitting reduces > this 21-day delay to as little as 11, which is not a whole lot worse than the five > or so that is average for mated queen introductions." These are cells we raise by grafting. As soon as they are sealed in the cell builder, we put a JayZee BeeZee protector on them. That stays with them until they emerge. These are not strictly walk-away, since we do visit and insert a cell. allen ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 19:20:16 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jorn Johanesson Subject: Sv: 7 swarms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: Mark Gosswiller Til: BEE-L@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU Dato: 8. maj 1999 04:48 Emne: 7 swarms >I am happy to report that I went out >today and checked each hive and found eggs in all 7. Not very many eggs, >and not all together either. But at least I know I got the queen. But I >also found in 4 of the 7 hives, queen cells (2 to 3 of them) on the side of >a couple of the frames. You have queens in all of those swarms, and the easiest way is to let those new families alone, concerning the queens. I for my part will not accept swarm queens, if I can avoid it. Swarming is genetic bound, and catching swarms is not what I want to spend my time on. So if I get a swarm I will replace the queen with a mated queen from a known source with queens selected on basic of little swarm tendency. best regards Jorn Johanesson EDBI = multilingual Beekeeping software since 1987 http://home4.inet.tele.dk/apimo (Danmark) http://wn.com.au/apimo (Austaralia) http://www.apimo.dk (USA) apimo@post4.tele.dk apimo@wn.com.au Jorn_Johanesson@apimo.dk ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 19:20:30 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jorn Johanesson Subject: Sv: Re: Requeening MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: Allen Dick Til: BEE-L@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU Dato: 8. maj 1999 00:38 Emne: Re: Requeening I have done requeening in three ways through my beekeeping life :-) But as you said, each method depends on the actual situation, You are facing. one is the straight way, when you want to replace an old no more so well working queen. Just let her into the hive through the entrance. The condition to be met is a sunny day with plenty of flight so that a minimum of old bees are home. The new queen must be a mated queen in laying eggs condition. advantage is . Minimum work. The hive remain working not frustrated even if the requeening fails. You don't have to check for the queen, until you normally would do. disadvantages is that you might lose the new queen, because she is not accepted. second is the requeening in cage, where you kill the old queen, let the bees carry the dead queen out like they do with other garbage, then the next day place the cage between to frames with young nurse queens. The condition here must also be nice weather. advantages is this is the normal way to introduce new queens in, and the most time it succeed. and you can use both mated and unmated queens. disadvantages are that it is workload, and set the bees back at least two days plus the days until the new queen start laying eggs. third way is where you requeen with the queen surrounded with young bees in a little artificial swarm. The technique is similar to the way queenbreaders make the mating boxes. a little box 15cm times 15 cm. fill with 2 to 3 dl young bees. feed those bees and throw the new queen into the box. In the field, place this little box upon the broad boxes with a sheet of newspaper between. covering the whole surface. put an empty box around, The bees from under will try to eat through the newspaper to kill the invaders, but will calm down before they get to it. then the new queen will invade the hive with her young bees. advantages is: you have not to wait for the next day after killing the old queen, and the accept of new queen will be as near as 100% you can get when we are working against nature. Works for unmated and mated queens. Best succes with killing the old queen and a mated new quuen.. disadvantages is workload! making small artificial swarms, maybee looking up the old queen and so on. best regards Jorn ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 19:48:52 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Spring aggression: an explnation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi All Many people I know have problems with grotty bees in spring. I have developed the following theory as to why. As a colony goes into winter it's population begins to age. Old Bees can fly and are more ratty than young bees. As the brood nest recedes the proportion of old bees goes up - until spring when you have a whole whack of old bees and a big brood nest - and it is still slightly chilly so all the bees are packed in tightly inbetween the frames trying to keep them warm. So - an 'angryness' of one bee, communicated by a realease of anger pheremone will rapdily transfer through a skitty old population of bees. Very few 'silly young bees' exist to absorb some of this chain reaction and you get a sort of nuclear melt down effect with the reaction just going up exponentially. I have had this problem both after droughts and in spring when hive populations have aged. It takes exactly three weeks from the end of a brood rearing dearth till hives are 'friendly' again. Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis 6139 South Africa Time = Honey ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 20:15:29 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: Teds Q's about capensis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi Ted/All Ted Wrote: > Garth writes about the gentleness which has become part of the > capensis bee's characteristics, often wondered about the Cape bee, > and have these questions: > > 1) Laying workers can produce normal queens, and I suppose other > workers as well. Have these workers therefore mated with drones, or > are the fertile eggs haploid? If haploid, what determines if an egg > develops into a queen/worker or a drone? No - the eggs are diploid clones of the mother worker who laid them. It is possible for a capensis colony to exist for a few months without a queen. It is also very common for the capensis workers to drift (some say up to 10% of bees). This means you have a constant swarm swop going on in an apiary - ie you do not have single hives in the apiary but rather a collective always swopping. There are therefore two types of bees in the apiary - those who had a queen as a mother - new genetic combinations, and those who had a worker as a mother (large clone lines). No big surveys have been done, but I believe some of these clone lines may represent the largest 'insects' on the planet with imortalised strains stretching from cape town to pretoria and further!! Recent research suggest that up to 10% of eggs layed in a capensis hive are worker derived as well. We have yet to determine whose eggs become the new queens, but I would bet on worker there too. > 2) All I have read about this bee suggests that it is a scourge upon > the beekeeping world, and steps must be taken to prevent its spread > elsewhere. What is so bad about it - does it swarm excessively, > produce little honey, too much propolis, get diseases or parasites > more readily than others - or what? (Maybe the queen breeders just > don't want to have self-requeening colonies around.) Well, I average about 60kg a year in semi desert, and with good maintenance can get over a 100kg in better forage. They swarm once in spring and once in autumn if rains are good. Splits prevent swarming, as does killing the queen. They are hard to requeen with fresh queens and are best left to requeen naturally - takes about 18days. They are resistant to most diseases, and due to their great genetic diversity have more natural resistance to most things than most other races ever will (think - a successful clone can transfer that line into new queens forever if it is a good line). They are moderate propolisers. They are gentle. They have strong reponses to predators - including moths (wax moth is seldom a problem), birds (if they have heat they will kill any bird that comes within 4m of a hive for long), frogs (in spring a frog that comes to the entrance ceases to live fast), humans (if you happen to have a dark skin or african hair the cape honey bee will victimise you). BUT - if you have them you cannot keep other bees. They will replace the bees in any other race of bee's hive with a capensis queen. And if one is a conservative SA beekeeper accustomed to A.m.scutellata, and the infinite joys of having to wear two overalls, two sets of gloves, masking tape and so on to work hives after the aloe honey flow this is terrible - who would want to be able to work the bees without a suit. I personally believe the cape honey bee is the bee of the future - the only bee able to out do the african honey bee, the natural host of the small hive beetle and thus resistant to it, this bee will with a bit of fine tuning and careful analysis be worth it's weight in cold. Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis 6139 South Africa Time = Honey ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 20:19:49 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Philips comment on cape bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi All/Phillip Interesting stuff about the cape bee mechanics - yes that is the way it works. Interestingly, and I must check on this, somebody here in our bee lab told me that they think the young hatched cape bee lays fertilized eggs until she mates, after which she is able to lay both unfertilized and fertilized eggs. Odd bee. Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis 6139 South Africa Time = Honey ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 19:39:51 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Gordon Scott Subject: Re: New hive questions In-Reply-To: <199905071524.LAA15490@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 6 May 1999, Susan and/or David Dannenberg wrote: > 2. When I checked the hive after the first week (with the help of a > beekeeper of six years experience) we were able to find the queen (she > looked a lot bigger in just one week!) and she was laying but we also > noticed weird wax formations in two places one fairly high on the > foundation with a hole behind it (queen cell??) and one lower on a > different frame. My friend removed the upper one and told me I should > remove the lower one next time I go into the hive. I've been following the > instructions in Dadant's First Lessons in Beekeeping and plan to open the > hive the next sunny day. So... SHould I destroy the odd comb or let the > bees do what they think best. ANything in particular to look for. Hm, A six-year beekeeper who didn't tell you whether on not that was a queen cell? Could do better. Queen cells when first produced look like a small cup with the opening pointing downwards. When the bees make them bigger, they start to look like a peanut (groundnut) shell, hanging vertically. Bees fairly regularly make a few cups but just ignore them, however when they start producing numbers and they start getting longer, the bees are preparing to swarm so you should take action. There are many things you can do, but the safest for beginners (IMHO) is probably an `artificial swarm'. Don't be fooled into believing that knocking-down the queen cells will stop them, as mostly it'll just slow them down a bit. It's important to learn the life cycle of the queen so you understand the timings for swarm management. As beginners, you will lose a few swarms -- I think everyone does. That's life. You just have to practice. Other weird wax formations are `brace comb', where they build into the gaps between combs to make thing more rigid and drone cells, which are larger then worker cells and sometimes rather heavily constructed when near the bottom of the comb, where the bees have filled up gaps with fairly solid wax. G. -- Gordon Scott gordon@apis.demon.co.uk gordon@multitone.co.uk (work) Gordon's Apis Home Page Beekeeper; Kendo 3rd Dan, retd :-(; Sometime sailor. Hampshire, England. Linux -- Because I like to *get* there today. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 20:45:48 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Predatory mite question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi All/Bill A while back Bill asked a question about research into predatory mites which might help the bees by eating the other mites. I know there are many things which may be of help here. The USDA and other departments important in helping beekeepers in the US seems to, as with many scientific bodies, be a bit slow of the mark - always. Beekeeping is a business - time=honey=money. In industry, when a problem appears, that company mobilises all resource to solve it - or go under. In beekeeping if a problem arises, one tells the extension officer, who tells somebody else, who has to arrange a meeting with somebody else, who tells ..... until one is given permission to apply for a grant or whatever to do the research. By this time, the problem is rather big. If the world ran like a company the problem would have been fixed. Companies also don't view borders. The recent example of Aethina tumida comes to mind - I think the majority of US research being conducted about this pest is being done in the US - with scant knowledge about it's natural history in Africa (whichever part it is from). A bit of creative outsourcing, genetic talent hunting and such would help the average north american beekeeper!! African has hundreds of little characters living in it's beehives. Most are unstudied. Many eat each other (eg hive pseudoscorpion which eats things like braula etc). And in a country like SA one gets 6 times as much research for the same cash input (US$/SA Rand conversion thingy), and the bees work year round - so if anybody in North America needs answers fast they should choose their base correctly (preferrable in Asia or Africa where the bees are still bees) If any beekeepers on the list have any sway with their government agencies, please encourage a sort of global view thing. I am very happy to say we have two people from the USDA coming to Rhodes in September to work on A.tumida. This is great - and would have been spectacular 2 years ago. Much space exists for similar collaborations. Just my opinion. Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis 6139 South Africa Time = Honey ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 11:09:45 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Vivian Donahue Subject: Bees near D.C Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Suggest you contact my beekeepers assn, Beekeepers of Northern Virginia. Our secretary is Pearl Liles. Email me privately for the phone number. Our assn sells honey at several events and although almost all of us are small hobbiests, 8 to 10 almost always have plenty of honey to sell. Vivian Donahue >My daughter has a friend who is troubled with allergies and is looking for >local honey. Does anyone know of honey gathered as near to Washington, D.C. >as possible? Thanks for the info. > >Faith Andrews Bedford > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 18:43:58 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: amy thomson Subject: Supersedure cells Comments: To: bee-l@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Well, I went into my new (and only) hive for the third time ever today, and I still haven't seen the queen. I have seen some eggs, some standing and some lying down in the cell, not lots, but that may have been the poor light. Over a dozen swarm cells (which I cut out). And two more supersedure cells. I added third hive body with undrawn frames, putting a couple of frames of brood and a couple more of honey into it. I left the supersedure cells in the hive this time. My questions are: Should I cut those supersedure cells out? How can a newbie like me tell whether the hive is queenright? Will adding the new super & frames cut down on the swarm cells? Many thanks! Amy Thomson ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 23:31:54 -0500 Reply-To: "David D. Scribner" Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David D. Scribner" Subject: Re: New hive questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >1. My hive body is three or four weeks old. I started with all new >equipment and purchased bees. after a week or two I noticed ants on the >bottom board near the board feeder. Is this something to be concerned >about? Since the hive sits on 6x6's its impractical to "moat" it. > >Thanks in advance for any advise. >Sue >Philadelphia, PA Since Gordon Scott answered your second question, I thought I would forward you a few personal opinions I (and some others) have about boardman entrance feeders. I had emailed this clip as part of a message to another subscriber with the same problem (ants feeding from the feeder) just a week or so ago so still had it in my Sent Items folder... >>>>>>> I recommend that you consider an alternative to the boardman entrance feeder for a couple reasons... The boardman entrance feeder that ships with many "starter" hives really isn't the best feeder choice for a new hive. One, it doesn't hold very much sugar water (1 qt.) and needs constant refilling. Two, most new hives are started in early spring when the nights are still cool. The bees will stop feeding from the entrance feeder when it gets too cold as they have to travel too far from the cluster. Three, if there are other hives close by that are stong, it has happened that the strong colony will force it's way into the entrance, turn the corner and take as much of the syrup as they want. This leaves the new colony without the syrup you provided for THEM to use, and this type of "robbing" can demoralize the new colony. And finally, the entrance feeder is accessed very easily by ants or other "critters" that want the sweet stuff, too. My recommendation, if you have a second full-depth hive body on hand (or a couple shallows or mediums) is to take out the entrance feeder and reduce the entrance cleat to the smallest opening. Remove the outer telescoping cover, but leave the inner cover with the oval hole in place. Put the empty hive body (no frames) on top of it and place a feeder pail or jar over the hole and replace the telescoping cover. Feeder pails are plastic buckets that have a screened hole in the lid. Since it may take too long for one to arrive if you ordered it now, you can use a feeder jar instead. Any large 1/2 gallon or 1 gallon jar can be used, though the ones used in the food service for condiments (ketchup, salad dressing, etc.) are great. With a small nail, punch very small holes in the lid. Fill the pail or jar with the sugar water and put the lid on. At the hive, turn it upside down over the inner cover hole. A little will drain out at first, but the vacuum pressure created inside will keep it from draining (as long as the holes are small enough). If the jar lid doesn't cover the hole in the inner cover completely, a little duct tape over the exposed part of the hole will solve that problem. Feeding the bees "inside" the hive allows them to continue feeding on cold nights as the feed is right above the cluster. Since the inner cover hole is covered, bees won't move into the empty super. And, as the only access to the feed is from inside the hive you will eliminate any "robbing" by other colonies or "critters". >>>>>>> As I mentioned, I think if you changed your feeder to a different style, that may very well solve your ant problem. Hope this helps. --David Scribner - Ballwin, MO, USA Niche on the Net! - ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 22:33:53 PDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Re: - Canola - pollination and honey In-Reply-To: <199905081218.IAA28683@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Andrew Weinert wrote asking about canola - pollination and honey. I thought I should reply for the Australian situation as it differs greatly from Canada in many respects. I was ticked off recently for giving advice on queens that was claimed to be inappropriate for the northern hemisphere so I don't want Andrew to think that he is on a good wicket as that described by Allen Dick. > We would appreciate information and comments on the following > questions > > 1 Is there a premium or penalty on canola honey? In Australia there is no premimum when sold to the packers. In fact there is a penalty. If you can establish some niche market for canola honey you might be able to get a premium. > 2 Are there any special characteristics about canola honey? As described by Allen, candying is a big problem. A lot of beekeepers in Australia often put back more canola honey on the hive than they extract because it has candied in the frame. This could cause problems when you next extract. Of course there is the problem of busted frames if you have a radial extractor. > 3 Is is worth while collecting the pollen from canola crops for > re-sale or for feeding to bee's later? Probably not. If however there is a lot of turnip weed in the canola crop the pollen will be quite good quality to feed back. Straight canola pollen has question marks on it. The other possible problem is if the crop is sprayed with pesticide. > 4 How much is charged per hive for pollinating canola crops and how > long is the pollination period? As Allen explained you will not get anything for canola that is produced for oil seed. The hybrid seed production is where you can charge a fee. However, you will get nothing like Allen's fee. In Australia you would probably be looking at A$45 tops. This is about US$30 on today's exchange rate. This is because we have such a long honey season that pollination is not competing with the major honey flow you will get for the year. Also there are the discount kings out there who pollinate at whim for a ridiculously low price when there is nothing else around. > 5 What is the recommended stocking rate for canola.? Depends on the seed company who are producing the hybrid seed. More hives per acre means more cost or so they think. For broad acre crops it depends where you can put them down. Space for bees is often limited as the farmer has ploughed every square inch for palnting. Watch out for drifting. I have seen very bad drifting on bees placed on canola because there are no real landmarks around. Just acres and acres of yellow flowers. > 6 Is much propolis made from canola crops? Hives I have seen working canola produce no more propolis than usual. > 7 What is the improvement in yield due to pollination of Canola? > i.e. to the farmer. There is none if you talk to the farmer. He is doing you a favour by letting you put the bees on the crop. Under good conditions of moisture and sunlight, I would imagine there must be an increase in yield but the farmer will not admit to this. It is like sunflowers. Studies in Australia have shown that there is an increase in yield of sunflowers for oil production with bees and good conditions, particularly moisture. However, talk with a farmer and he will tell you he still gets a crop, bees or not. > 8 What special preparations are necessary to prepare the bees for > the best results for both the farmer and the beekeeper. >From your point of view, you need bees that are expanding the brood chamber. From the farmers point of view he needs to look at his spraying regime. One thing to watch out for is that the bees I have worked on canola here in Australia often get a little mean. It is a funny situation. If you stand up they will buz your veil. When you bend down over the hive they do not buzz. Don't know why but be prepared for this if working canola. Take them away to the next honey crop and you will not recognise them as the same bees that were working canola. The other disadvantage working canola is that bees tend to swarm and for some reason often don't raise a queen to replace the one that swarms.. You have to be at them to stop swarming. We often have beekeepers asking us for queens to re-queen hives that have come off canola queenless. Often these hives do not recover well enough for a honey crop in that season. No walk away method of re-queening here. Some beekeepers will only commit half their bees to canola. They keep the others away because of the swarming. Some points to consider for the Australian conditions Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 09:30:30 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pollinator@AOL.COM Subject: Re: New hive questions Comments: To: dscribner@bigfoot.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/9/99 1:04:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time, dscribner@WORLDNET.ATT.NET writes: > Any large 1/2 gallon or 1 gallon jar can be used, > though the ones used in the food service for condiments (ketchup, salad > dressing, etc.) are great. With a small nail, punch very small holes in the > lid. Fill the pail or jar with the sugar water and put the lid on. At the > hive, turn it upside down over the inner cover hole. A little will drain > out at first, but the vacuum pressure created inside will keep it from > draining (as long as the holes are small enough). If the jar lid doesn't > cover the hole in the inner cover completely, a little duct tape over the > exposed part of the hole will solve that problem. I concur. It will get the feed to top of the cluster, where it is most needed, no matter how cold, and it will reduce robbing and ant and other critter problems. The boardman feeder should be banished forever. You can also use gallon paint cans. Latex should be washed thoroughly, and oil paint should be allowed to cure thoroughly before use. One critical point that is often missed, is that the pail/jar/can should be level. If it is not, the surup will drain on the lower holes and the upper holes will bubble air, so the vacuum will not work. The syrup is wasted because it comes faster than the bees can take it, and then you REALLY have an ant problem. Most folks use too many holes anyway. Three holes in a row (made with frame nails) is plenty. By putting them in a row, you can compensate for a tilting hive (tilting the hives slightly forward is always a good idea, to drain the bottom boards from rain and condensation). Just make sure the row of holes in the lid is lined up, so that all are at the same level. Then the jar won't bubble and drain out. Sometimes a can has an unnoticed pinhole or a lid won't seal properly, so the jar will leak anyway. When you set the syrup feeder up, hold it above the location where it will set, for a moment. Then if it's gonna' leak, you will see it. If the vacuum is holding, set it down in position. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html The Pollination Home Page: http://www.pollinator.com Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 09:56:28 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pollinator@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Supersedure cells Comments: cc: amy@jetcity.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/9/99 1:03:20 AM Eastern Daylight Time, amy@jetcity.com writes: > Well, I went into my new (and only) hive for the third time ever > today, and I still haven't seen the queen. I have seen some eggs, some > standing and some lying down in the cell, not lots, but that may have been > the poor light. Over a dozen swarm cells (which I cut out). And two more > supersedure cells. I added third hive body with undrawn frames, putting a > couple of frames of brood and a couple more of honey into it. I left the > supersedure cells in the hive this time. > > My questions are: > > Should I cut those supersedure cells out? > How can a newbie like me tell whether the hive is queenright? > Will adding the new super & frames cut down on the swarm cells? Where, oh where does this idea of cutting cells originate and persist? Can we not trust our bees, that have been requeening themselves for many milennia, without our help, to know when a queen is not up to par? All you beekeepers who cut queen cells. PLEASE GIVE IT UP! Stop telling newbies to do it. It doesn't work to stop swarming, and it kills their chances to naturally requeen themselves, often by the time the beekeeper sees they MUST have a new queen, it is too late. Bees naturally requeen themselves a LOT more often than most beekeepers suspect. And they ususally do it without a break in brood cycle, or productivity. LET THEM BEE! A newly established hive is not in danger of swarming, no matter where the cells occur. And, as you say, Amy, you are giving them adequate room. They are telling you that the queen is poorly mated, and they only have a short time left, to get fertilized eggs for requeening. The queen should mate with 12 -15 drones. If the weather was adverse, or the process got interrupted, she may have only mated with a couple drones. SHE IS RUNNING OUT OF SEMEN, and will soon fail. LET the BEES DO THEIR JOB. Don't fight the bees. Learn to cooperate with them. Don't micromanage them. This is clearly a case of supersedure, but the same principle holds for swarminess. You just simply cannot stop bees from swarming by cutting cells. You might delay them, but you won't stop them. Meanwhile, you keep them in an uproar. If they are bent on reproduction, HELP THEM REPRODUCE and get it over with...... Commercial beekeepers do not have the time to fiddle with their bees, so they have arrived at procedures that work, by letting the bees do their own thing, as much as possible. Every hobbyist should read and reread Allen Dicks recent comments on walk away splits, and requeening by cell, etc. There is much wisdom here. I am going to keep all his recent comments in a special folder, because they are so good. Hobbyists may think that the commercial beekeepers may have a lot different situation. But I want to assure you; the bees are the same! Procedures worked out by observant and thinking beekeepers with thousands of hives, will also work in the backyard with three or four. And THANK YOU, ALLEN, for taking the time to write out all your thinking on this. Please! All you swarm cell cutters; STOP retelling this OLD WIVES TALE! I can only think of one good reason to cut a cell, that is to move a "ripe" cell to a colony that needs one..... Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html The Pollination Home Page: http://www.pollinator.com Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 16:41:45 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Oops MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi All I wrote yesterday that the young cape BEE lays fertilized eggs nutil she is mated and then after that can lay both hap and dip eggs. Ooops - I meant the young unmated cape queen bee. We know workers just lay fertilized eggs for capensis, and sometimes a few haploids as well, but wrkers cannot mate. Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis 6139 South Africa Time = Honey ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 11:53:08 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard Bonney Subject: Re: Supersedure cells MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Further on the matter of cutting queen cells to stop swarming, following is an excerpt from my May article on how to stop swarms from "Bee Culture" magazine. Dick Bonney rebonney@javanet.com > > CUTTING QUEEN CELLS > > Cutting queen cells is a time honored method of controlling swarming. Unfortunately, it is not a reliable method, especially when done at the interval often suggested—every two weeks. This interval is based on the queen’s development time of sixteen days. Cut every two weeks, so the thinking goes, and a new queen will never mature. > We need to look closely at queen development during a swarm cycle. The swarm leaves on or about the day that the cell containing the first new queen is about to be capped. This is the cell containing the replacement for the queen leaving with the swarm. If that cell, and any others that are present, is cut before it is capped, it will slow the swarm process but not stop it. The bees will select one or more larvae of proper age and begin to raise them as queens. Since these larvae will be 4-5 days along in their sixteen-day development cycle, they will be only 3-4 days away from being capped, at which time the swarm will feel free to leave. This means that queen cells would need to be cut every three days to be effective. This would be totally disruptive to the colony, even if it were possible within the schedules of most of us. Cutting queen cells is not a viable swarm control method. > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 16:58:21 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert Butcher Organization: Dundee University Subject: A.m. capensis In-Reply-To: <199905091516.LAA10755@listserv.albany.edu> > I wrote yesterday that the young cape BEE lays fertilized eggs nutil > she is mated and then after that can lay both hap and dip eggs. > Ooops - I meant the young unmated cape queen bee. We know workers > just lay fertilized eggs for capensis, and sometimes a few haploids > as well, but wrkers cannot mate. No, unless i am getting confused this still has the same missuse of fertilised for diploid etc as before. If a worker cannot mate, and so is always a VIRGIN, how can it lay mainly fertilised eggs, and how can the VIRGIN queen lay fertilised eggs? That is from where does the sperm come from for fertilisation?. I still think this means thelytokous diploid eggs (in place of fertilised) are laid by workers and young virgin queen bees, which develop into matrilineal (clonal) diploid females. The mechanism of thelytoky may fail (or is it under control? i dont know, but it would be of great interest if anyone knows) resulting in haploid eggs that develop as drones (male) occasionally being laid by the workers. Once the queen bee is mated she lays fertilised diploid (biparental diploid workers / queens [females]) and unfertilised haploid (matrilineal haploid drones [male]) eggs. Thus mating (and some aspects of aging) essentially switches off the method of producing daughters without mating (terminal polecell nuclei fusion) in the queen bee (but not the workers) and reverts her to "sexual reproduction" (arrhenotoky). However, if i have understood this correctly, herein lies the potential interest in A. m. capensis. "Colonies" potentially have the advantages of both thelytoky (rapid clonal expansion of currently advantageous gene combinations without having to be reliant on other males, or production of males rather then females, so queens and their associated reproductively active (clonal) daughter workers can rapidly reproduce compared to "sexual" species{all other things not being limited]; whilst maintaining the advantages of sexual reproduction (recombination, gene flow) to allow new genotype combinations and thus a buffer against changing environment (that is the fitness of any given gene combination). This is in some ways (simplistically) analagous to the cyclical parthenogenesis seen in many gall wasps (Cynipidae). The interest may then be after the queen has mated and produces daughters (workers) of a different genetic relatedness (depending upon the drone(s) she mated with and recombination), which workers will allow/be allowed to parthenogenetically reproduce workers and/or queens. That is the genetic conflict over the control of reproduction involving inter-worker and inter-queen conflicts may well be more complex than in A. mellifera and other sexual eusocial insects. Cheers Rob Robert Butcher, Evolutionary and Ecological Entomology Unit, Department of Biological Sciences, Dundee University, Dundee, DD1 4HN, Tayside, Scotland, UK. Work Phone:- 01382-344291 (Office), 01382-344756 (Lab). Fax:- 01382-344864 e-mail:- r.d.j.butcher@dundee.ac.uk ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 08:21:21 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: - Canola - pollination and honey In-Reply-To: <199905091314.JAA09916@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm glad Trevor stepped in to add some info about local conditions in Auz re: canola. FWIW, I thought his comments on queen introduction were very well written, and right on the money for pretty well everywhere I've been, but there were a few local effects discussed subsequently. This situation sounds similar. > The other disadvantage working canola is that bees tend to swarm > and for some reason often don't raise a queen to replace the one > that swarms.. Last year was the first year for us pollinating hybrid canola, and we noticed that there were some problems with queens and attrition in hive numbers over the season. In fact I was going to comment on this, but had not gotten around to it. Another Alberta beekeeper who has been on the pollination job for many years now mentioned the unusual queen loss associated with canola pollination to me before we started, and it turns out we also experienced this effect. It is interesting to know that it happens elsewhere, and to get some more insight into it. We had almost 15% dead-outs or shake-outs by the time we wrapped for winter last year. (We don't have time to try to salvage hives during our short season; either they make it or they don't). We normally have about 5% shrinkage from the end of splitting to wrapping time. Add to this our normal winter loss of 15 to 25%, and the annual attrition rate is high: roughly 1/3. I had wondered why most canola pollinators were buying package bees each year. In considering the swarming factor, I don't think that every hive that succumbed over the season swarmed. We were aware where the swarm pockets were, and I don't think that accounts for all the unusual queen loss. The failure of bees pollinating hybrid canola to replace queens when necessary is most interesting. I would assume that this failure to raise queens may well apply to supercedure too, and supercedure is ongoing in any beeyard in one hive or another pretty well all the time -- normally. This failure of bees to requeen places a burden on the beekeeper to either somehow detect and requeen deficient hives during the flow, or to be sure to cull them before winter. Or, I suppose we could stick a cell into each hive mid-season to see if they go for it. We have concluded that we must start with more colonies this year if we wish to have sufficient hives going into winter to keep our numbers up. Another factor, one that may not affect you in Australia, is that canola honey tends to be very poor for wintering, due to its hardness in the comb. Hives put into winter on strictly canola honey have a hard time of it. > No walk away method of re-queening here. That's what I love about this list. You must have been reading my mind, Trevor. One of the ways I was thinking of getting a few more hives for winter was by splitting while on the canola. So I thank you for this warning. If we try it, we're going to have to be sure to use cells. Or do you think that the failure to requeen is not at the cell building stage, but somewhere farther into the process? How is caged queen aceptance on the canola? allen ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 23:12:00 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: P-O Gustafsson Subject: Re: - Canola - pollination and honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Some more thoughts on Canola... What I have experienced here in Sweden the latest years. Two different kinds; one that is self pollinated, and one that need cross pollination. We have had both for ages, the self pollinated one being the best honey producer. The last 2-3 years it has not produced so much honey any more, genetics been fiddling with it I suppose. I even took the trouble to move hives to a field, only to see bees flying in the other direction to some lime trees (linden, basswood). So when discussing Canola, we maybe should check what it is out there on the fields as it no doubt change from year to year. > Another Alberta beekeeper who has been on the pollination job for many years > now mentioned the unusual queen loss associated with canola pollination The hybrid isn't here yet, only some test fields so far. But what you say about queen losses is something I have been wondering about too. For the last two years I have had similar experience, queens just disappear without any cells in the hive. Trying to remember if it happened during the july honey flow... think most of them did. To me it looked like the queen stopped laying for some reason, then died without any chance for the bees to replace her. But I have no proof for that theory, just my feelings. I don't believe they tried to supersede! I haven't kept a record on if they were flying on Canola, but sure will do it this summer. > In considering the swarming factor, I don't think that every hive that > succumbed over the season swarmed. I have almost no swarms during the flow, bees tend to forget about it and concentrate on getting the honey for winter at that time. A few of them will supersede, but this often happens at the end of flow when bees seem to think they got enough honey and starts thinking on a new queen. > Another factor, one that may not affect you in Australia, is that canola > honey tends to be very poor for wintering, due to its hardness in the comb. > Hives put into winter on strictly canola honey have a hard time of it. If I was to try it here I don't think I had any bees next spring... But my bees are confined to the hive for at least 5 months without flying. > Or do you think that the failure to requeen is not at the cell building > stage, but somewhere farther into the process? How is caged queen aceptance > on the canola? I had excellent acceptance on a good Canola flow here. Bees just haven't got time to think about queens with all that nectar around. I have also had a few situations where the queen stopped laying and I thought she was gone until coming back with a new queen and she was there after all and staring up again. This all happened the latest seasons, strange things I haven't seen before. P-O ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 10:48:00 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert Butcher Organization: Dundee University Subject: Re: Philips comment on cape bees In-Reply-To: <199905081843.OAA01617@listserv.albany.edu> > Interestingly, and I must check on this, somebody here in our bee lab > told me that they think the young hatched cape bee lays fertilized > eggs until she mates, after which she is able to lay both > unfertilized and fertilized eggs. I think there is a terminology error in the above (confusing fertilised / unfertilised for diploid/ haploid, which are not always interchangeable terms in these species). However, the main jist of this message, and the interest it conveys, is of course correct. Thus in general, in many cases the virgin cape bee (A. m. capensis) is parthenogenetic (thelytokous) and lays unfertilised eggs that develop as matrilineal females because following egg formation (a process of reductive meiosis where the diploid DNA content (two sets of chromosomes) is duplicated and then seperated to form four haploid copies) diploidy is restored in the egg pronucleus by terminal fusion of two polecell nuclei (rather than between one egg pronuclei and the sperm pronuclei following fertilisation (syngamy), as mentioned by a previous posting. Once she is mated, however, she displays largely, or entirely sexual reproductive behaviour (arrhenotoky, where fertilised eggs are diploid and develop as biparental females, unfertilised eggs are haploid and develop as matlineal males... i have excluded the case of diploid males here for simplicity). That is this thelytokous parthenogenetic behaviour appears to change in that unfertilised eggs largely, or entirley, fail to undergo terminal fusion, and thus are haploid and develop as males, and fertilised eggs, (the majority of her clutch at any point) which result from her usage of the drone(s) sperm and are hence biparental diploid, develop as females. Cheers Rob Robert Butcher, Evolutionary and Ecological Entomology Unit, Department of Biological Sciences, Dundee University, Dundee, DD1 4HN, Tayside, Scotland, UK. Work Phone:- 01382-344291 (Office), 01382-344756 (Lab). Fax:- 01382-344864 e-mail:- r.d.j.butcher@dundee.ac.uk ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 08:00:31 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Apidea Mating nucs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello All Can anybody say approximately how many bees are in a cup full of bees in the parlance of Apideas?. Or putting the question another way can we relate the cup full of bees to bees covering frames of say National or Commercial hives. I am going to use Apideas shortly to try to raise queens. I have heard some negative comments on these devices but now that I have purchased two of them I may as well see what they can do. I got to thinking about what happens when the queen is mated and laying. Presumably she will have to be introduced to her new abode in much the same way as a travelled queen, using a Butler Cage or equivalent. And of course she must be found beforehand and placed in the cage. What I was wondering about is, what is wrong with having some tiny little nucs with maybe only two standard frames. These would effectively IMO duplicate the Apidea, as all you require is a frame or two of food (no brood of any description), - in my case British nationals or commercials, and having as many bees in there are in an Apidea (hence my question at the beginning). We then have the queen on a normal frame in a nuc which most texts suggest makes introduction far easier. Any thoughts on the subject please? Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park, Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland Tel + 353 1 289 5269 Fax + 353 1 289 9940 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 07:57:59 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: A M Capensis Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Robert Butcher gives a fascinating account of the above. Would it be possible to explain this fascinating subject in more everyday terms?. I must say that I do not understand the paragraph beginning as follows: >"Colonies" potentially have the >advantages of both thelytoky (rapid clonal expansion of currently >advantageous gene combinations without having to be reliant on other >males, or production of males rather then females, so queens and >their associated reproductively active (clonal) daughter workers can >rapidly reproduce compared to "sexual" species{all other things not >being limited]; whilst maintaining the advantages of sexual >reproduction (recombination, gene flow) to allow new genotype >combinations and thus a buffer against changing environment ..... Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park, Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland Tel + 353 1 289 5269 Fax + 353 1 289 9940 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 07:57:55 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: RASpiek@AOL.COM Subject: Re: New hive questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Another point often missed is that plastic jars can collapse, thus letting out syrup without making a vacum. Richard RASpiek@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 14:26:08 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Robs comments on capensis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi All/Rob I aggree my calling a diploid egg layed by a worker fertilised is incorrect . Rob, you also mentioned that it would be interesting to see which workers were allowed to reproduce, and whether any of the queens offspring will also be allowed to become reproductively active. An interesting phenomenon I have noted a few times when I rear queen cells on capensis is that the bees begin raising queen cells after the queen is removed, then after five days they will sometimes tear down all queen cells and begin anew!! From this point there will be new queen cells raised each day, and when the first queen hatches there are cells present with freshly laid worker eggs in them! I suspect this may be one of the reasons people have recorded that queens lay worker eggs and then after mating can lay both worker and drone eggs. The workers laying the eggs are genetically pretty much the same as the queen they raise. I have also noticed that if I do a bee removal and have a queenless cluster they will raise a new queen - after a month - and there is lots of fighting about this. The concept of a successful gene combination living on in a 'clone line' is an interesting one in this regard. A small number of bees can rear a new queen - hence the most successful clone line in a hive, and the ones able to live the longest rears the new queen, as once all competition dies in an impoverished hive, the one little emergency queen to emerge is identical to here worker 'mother'!! A queen breaders nightmare/paradise depending on how you look at it! Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis 6139 South Africa Time = Honey ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 10:23:32 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Cutting out queen cells MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dave Green says "Where, oh where does this idea of cutting cells originate and persist? Can we not trust our bees, that have been requeening themselves for many milennia, without our help, to know when a queen is not up to par?" Dave is an invaluable asset to Bee-L; I have learned from him and greatly respect his advice and opinions. However, I respectively disagree that there are no circumstances under which cutting of queen cells is appropriate or successful. Without exception, every commercial producer of comb honey that I know of (defined as producing 5,000 or more sections a year) does a weekly inspection of the bottom of frames and, when queen cells are seen, cuts them out (or destroys them) to manage swarming. Many, many hobbyist and sideliner beekeepers who produce comb honey do the same. In my personal experience, I find that one cutting does not usually stop the swarming impulse, and a week later there will be more to cut. However, in a very large majority of the cases two cuttings are successful in that there will be no more swarm cells seen for the remainder of the season. Of course, to produce comb honey one must create a largely artificial condition with extreme hive crowding early in the season, and this often leads to building of queen cells prior to swarming. Otherwise, I completely share Dave's views that the bees know when to supercede (or replace) a queen and we should let them do so. Lloyd Lloyd Spear Owner, Ross Rounds(tm). The finest in comb honey production. http://www.rossrounds.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 11:32:12 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Becky or Al S Boehm Subject: canola---rape--pollination--problems Hello all. And to Mr. Allen Dick, and Mr. P-O Gustafsson This is in reply to the Q&A posts on canola and the loss of queens. My daughter has worked for a health food store for some time in the past and I have gotten quite a few books on toxic substances and products laying around. I rembered rape and canola or canada being discussed and some of the properties of its industrial oil. This is not my work, I'll be up front with that, these are exerpts from the research done by John Thomas on aging and the metabolic process involved. The rape plant was the origination from which canola was genetically engeneered. Canola containes a cynanide compound called, iso-thio-cyanates, this compound inhibits functions in the body of mitochondrial production of ATP. Canola is also rich in glycosides, these compounds inhibit muscle enzymes from working causing paralysis. And last but not least is Erucic acid which is still being researched. Someone with a medical background may know where to follow up and find more information linking these things to the nectar and or pollen of the canola. It might be interesting to find out if it has a natural birth control effect on the queens, or if the enzymes used to process the queens food become toxic. This is just food for thought. Thank you and good luck Al Boehm Columbus N C . Someone who has more medical background ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 09:33:05 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Keeler, Lisa" Subject: Swarming Questions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > Hi all; > > I lost a swarm about 14 days ago. I was slow in taking care of some queen > cells and last Tues. the number of bees flying from the hive had dropped > considerably. I did check the hive yesterday to see if the new queen was > OK but I found no fresh eggs or larvae, just lots of honey! I did find > queen cells all over the hive in various states of readiness. Some were > along the bottom of the frames and some were in the center of frames. > > So my question is - what do I do now? I don't want to loose another swarm > but I also don't want to take the chance of loosing this hive to > queenlessness. Should I simply wait for the new queen to take over or is > there a significant chance tha this queenless hive will throw another > swarm before it settles down with a new queen. I work during the day so I > have very little chance of actually finding and capturing another swarm if > it happens. > > Thanks for any advice. > > Lisa K > Zionsville, IN > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 09:09:42 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: darn@FREENET.EDMONTON.AB.CA Subject: Re: Apidea Mating nucs In-Reply-To: <199905101233.IAA23635@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 10 May 1999, Computer Software Solutions Ltd wrote: > What I was wondering about is, what is wrong with having some tiny little > nucs with maybe only two standard frames... We then have the queen on a normal frame in a nuc which most > texts suggest makes introduction far easier. Hi Tom: We have been using nucs with 3 standard frames for some years to mate queens from. We put one frame of brood, one frame of honey, and one frame of pollen with the adhering bees plus a ripe queen cell. They seem to work quite well. Best regards, Donald Aitken Edmonton Alberta Canada ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 09:50:34 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Cutting out queen cells In-Reply-To: <199905101427.KAA25816@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Without exception, every commercial producer of comb honey that I know of > (defined as producing 5,000 or more sections a year) does a weekly > inspection of the bottom of frames and, when queen cells are > seen, cuts them out (or destroys them) to manage swarming. With all due respect, I never *ever* searched out and cut queen cells in all the years I produced Ross Rounds, some 20 years or so -- and in some years we exceeded 30,000 combs produced. We had some swarms, but usually swarming was pretty minimal. We relied on good timing for setting up the comb hives and giving them lots of room early on, then reducing the space after the swarming period ended and finishing was required. The thing to remember about swarming is that if an expanding hive is restricted -- *even for one or two days* -- before swarm season, it is likely to go out when the time comes. Bees remember. When I say lots of room, I mean *super* room. We *never* produced rounds on doubles. It can be done, but it is a headache. The principle for comb production is the similar to that in using excluders: If you give the bees enough room to be happy under an excluder, they will treat it as a lid oftentimes. The secret in both cases is to give them only enough room for brood in the brood chamber and not enough to store food beyond their immediate needs. Then they will accept and use the space above the excluder or the space in the comb supers without balking. Otherwise, stagnation and swarming are frequent problems. The popular double standard brood chamber used in extracted production is actually about 25% to 40% too large for good management in many areas -- even for extracted honey -- because the bees often have enough room down there that they are not forced up. Unless the queen is young and the strain one that expands rapidly, or the flow really inspiring, there can be stagnation under the excluder -- or under the comb supers. *Ideally*, the queen should just barely run out of space at the very peak of egg laying and the bees are then forced to use other space for honey storage. They do so with enthusiasm, and then as the brood rearing backs off, some food is stored in the single. Once the bees have accepted the space up top, they will return to it and work it without restraint until the weather cools. The single standard is ideal as a brood chamber for maximum honey production in both comb and extracted production (using and excluder) if managed properly, but it has some demands. The major one is that the beekeeper has to be pretty much on his/her toes to avoid starvation at some time or another during the season. Another is that the winter food chamber has to be put on early enough that it can be conditioned and filled by the bees while they are still in good flow and temperature conditions or there can be higher than necessary wintering losses. This question of cell cutting may be a local thing too. as we are learning, what works or is even essential in one area may be gratuitious or harmful in another. allen ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 20:29:50 -0400 Reply-To: slnewc@alltel.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Steve Newcomb Subject: COMBINING A SWARM WITH PARENT HIVE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I had 2 swarms this weekend. One I put into its own new box. The other I want to re-combine with its parent hive because I want to have some cut comb. What is the best way to re-combine these bees? Newspaper? Snelgrove board? Forget it and put them in a new box? I can't get home to work on the hives until 6:00 at night, or I will have to wait until Saturday to work on them. I have the second swarm in a cardboard box now. BTW, I tried both methods of marking my existing queens 2 weeks ago, and both methods worked equally well. Steve Newcomb Elyria, OH ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 21:57:56 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pollinator@AOL.COM Subject: Accident to a load of blueberry bees Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A tractor trailer load of bees bound for blueberries wrecked in Maine yesterday. See the story at: http://www.portland.com/news/story1.shtml Dave Green SC USA The Pollination Home Page http://www.pollinator.com The Pollination Scene http://members.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop on the Internet (honey & beeswax candles) http://members.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 21:36:12 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Marc Studebaker Subject: Re: Swarming Questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: Keeler, Lisa To: BEE-L@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU Date: Monday, May 10, 1999 12:09 PM Subject: Swarming Questions Lisa writes >> So my question is - what do I do now? I don't want to loose another swarm >> but I also don't want to take the chance of loosing this hive to >> queenlessness. Should I simply wait for the new queen to take over or is >> there a significant chance tha this queenless hive will throw another >> swarm before it settles down with a new queen. I work during the day so I >> have very little chance of actually finding and capturing another swarm if >> it happens. You can do several things, here are some options: 1. cut out all but two of the largest cells and leave the hive to raise a new queen. 2. If the hive is two deep brood boxes you can split the hive with a double screen and make sure you have a cell in each. When you have mated queens in both (eggs in both) you can install a queen excluder in place of the double screen and run a two queen hive or give the top hive body a bottom board and a cover and move off to the side. 3. Take the frames with cells and put into a nuc with a frame of honey and an empty frame. Make up as many nucs as you have cells and bees for. As early as it is in the season you might have several colonies going into winter but don't expect any honey from these nucs. good luck Marc Sudebaker Geneva, In ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 14:39:53 -0700 Reply-To: PAULS@mail.tvi.cc.nm.us Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "A. Paul Smarrella" Organization: Albuquerque T-VI Subject: Robber bees and new package Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU I am a new beekeeper of about 2 years and my daughter has been keeping bees for about 5 years. We checked her hive yesterday when I was visiting her in Santa Fe, New Mexico. Though she had a lot of bees flying in and out of the hive, they were evidently robbers because when we opened the hive, there were no eggs, larva, or bees working the frames. There were some dead bees on the frames and a lot of honey. My question is when we get ready to install a new group of bees, how can we stop the robbers to help the new bees get settled? Thanks for any information, suggestions you may have. ****************************************************** A. Paul Smarrella, Director, Special Services Albuquerque Technical- Vocational Institute 525 Buena Vista SE Albuquerque, NM 87106 (V) 505-224-3259 (TTY) 505-224-3262 (FAX) 505-224-3261 pauls@tvi.cc.nm.us ****************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 02:08:06 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pollinator@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Robber bees and new package Comments: To: PAULS@mail.tvi.cc.nm.us MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/10/99 11:27:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time, pauls@mail.tvi.cc.nm.us writes: > Though she had a lot of > bees flying in and out of the hive, they were evidently robbers > because when we opened the hive, there were no eggs, larva, or bees > working the frames. There were some dead bees on the frames and a > lot of honey. > > My question is when we get ready to install a new group of bees, how > can we stop the robbers to help the new bees get settled? First you need to stop the robbing. Plug the hive up tight, or put it into a place not accessible by bees. After a few days, the robbers will forget about it. Remember, they are creatures of habit. As long as they are getting goodies, you are reinforcing the habit. When you install new bees, give them back the honey (making sure there is no foulbrood scale in the hive), and also making sure they have a very small entrance, so they can defend themselves. If you redo the hive soon, it would be a good idea to put it in a new location, so they won't be bothered by old bees that remember the honey. After a couple days, the new hive will be organized and capable of defending itself. Then you can open up the entrance to regular size. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html The Pollination Home Page: http://www.pollinator.com Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 06:32:37 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Francis Subject: Summer plans MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit This is my 2nd year in beekeeping. In late April, I obtained a new colony, that I now have in hive. Good brood. All is well. My goal is to leave the honey, and start a new colony off this first one by late summer. Would you suggest doing it nuc style, waiting for supersedure and split hives. Or abandon the idea totally. BTW, I have really enjoyed this list. John Leslie Francis Program Director, WEKU "Great Music and NPR News" E-mail: dmrfranc@acs.eku.edu/www.weku.org* Phone: 606.622.1657 John Leslie Francis Program Director, WEKU "Great Music and NPR News" E-mail: dmrfranc@acs.eku.edu/www.weku.org* Phone: 606.622.1657 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 07:14:40 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jeffrey Merrow Subject: Link Update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The story of the beehive accident in Maine has been moved to this = location for the remainder of the week. http://www.portland.com/monews/story1.shtml ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 08:00:56 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter@AOL.COM Subject: Mean Hive- the conclusion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Last week when working the mean hive I split it and requeeened the eggless half which was placed on the original stand. The remaining boxes were hauled off into the woods and divided into two more hives. The older meaner bees joined up with the requeeened portion on the original stand. The two splits were searched yesterday and were weakened of older bees enough to work fully suited up and the queen was located and dispatched. This afternoon I will give new queens to each of the splits. I did not get a chance to try the vinegar spray to see if that enrages them less. The strong hive on the original stand has accepted the new queen and has eggs the older bees are still mean. The brood pattern of the mean hive was wall to wall perfect and if my beekeeping were rural I would have been tempted to keep it going despite getting beat up and followed to my truck by the guard bees. Although I do like to work the majority of my hives in painter overalls and a string tie veil. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 08:04:57 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Cutting queen cells MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Allen Dick's comments, including his statement that he never cut queen cells while producing comb honey, were well thought out and informative....as always. While I was making my comments to the list (stating that every commercial comb honey producer that I know uses the practice of cutting queen cells to control swarming) I wondered about Allen's practices as for many years he was the leading producer of comb honey in North America. I wasn't aware of his practices and didn't follow up as Allen has not been producing comb honey in the recent past. That said, Allen is one of our true observers of bee behavior and a beekeeper par excellence and I greatly respect his views and personally follow his advice. One of the most important things that Allen said is "This question of cell cutting may be a local thing too. As we are learning, what works or is even essential in one area may be gratuitious or harmful in another. Allen" I also appreciated Allen's comments on the use of excluders...something I have never mastered, and have often envied among those who make the practice look so easy! Lloyd Lloyd Spear Owner, Ross Rounds(tm). The finest in comb honey production. http://www.rossrounds.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 15:33:00 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ken Hoare Subject: Help requested MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Can anyone help me find a half dozen or so of the 'horror' newspaper = headlines that I understand have appeared in American newspapers = highlighting the aggressive (??) AHB . Apart from = www.lawestvector.org/toc.htm I have come up with nothing despite = searching some of your newspaper sites. I need to find someone who has = kept a scrapbook of such cuttings, who could copy a few and either = e.mail or snail mail them across to the UK. (Postage refunded.) The reason. Frankly, recent contact with this species has convinced me = that many of our UK colonies are much more aggressive than the AHB = (painful experience gained whilst examining 3000 colonies a year looking = for notifiable bee diseases for our Ministry of Agriculture). With only = two weeks experience of working AHB's, and nearly 200 slides taken, I am = trying to put together a talk for local associations, NOT elaborating on = the aggressive AHB but suggesting ours may be worse and maybe we should = do something about it, even a simple action such as culling aggressive = queens and ridding ourselves of the genes from their drones. As a dramatic 'start up' to that presentation a friend who works for the = BBC is trying to acquire from their Sound Library a one or two minute = tape of a very angry colony (tried to record it from my own colonies but = even in poor weather and after a couple of kickings they still 'hum' at = me - so culling does work). Whilst running the tape I would like to whiz = through slides of those headlines. Who keeps a scrapbook of AHB headlines? Why are SOME of our bees in the UK so aggressive, I would say because we = have imported various strains of bees from around the world, cross-bred = them, the offspring again cross-breeding and inter-breeding. And I = cannot remember the number of times I have heard something like, "I will = leave them for today, they can be a bit touchy". Trouble is they will be = just the same next week, and the one after that, all the time their = drones spreading the aggressive gene, and we continue to aggravate the = situation by importing Apis mellifera ligustica, a strain completely = unsuitable for our climate, which before it runs out of food or = succumbs to the tracheal mite, adds to the problem. Why don't we try for = a Pure Bred Honey Bee, after all the Germans did - and succeeded with = Apis mellifera carnica. Both your help and response to my comments welcomed, on-line preferably, = if I am riding the wrong hobby-horse the back is broad enough to take = it. Ken Hoare bees@kenlia.enta.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 07:50:30 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: amy thomson Subject: Re: New hive questions Comments: cc: suedave@pond.com In-Reply-To: <199905071524.LAA15499@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sue, I'm also a new beekeeper, and I'm using a feeder that goes over the hole on the inside cover. It's got four holes that fit mason jar lids with holes in them. You can screw the lids onto any size mason jars, and put them upside down into one of the holes. You cover it with another super, and put the telescoping or migratory cover over it. It's cheap, easy to work with and very hard for the bees to rob. I don't even suit up to replace one empty jar with a full one. I like to leave one of the holes empty, so that bees don't get trapped in the super. Happy Beekeeping! Amy Thomson >I am totally new to this and I have two questions (well tons, but two of >immediate concern). > >1. My hive body is three or four weeks old. I started with all new >equipment and purchased bees. after a week or two I noticed ants on the >bottom board near the board feeder. Is this something to be concerned >about? Since the hive sits on 6x6's its impractical to "moat" it. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 12:27:01 -0400 Reply-To: DOUGLAS.BARNEY@GBE.COM Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Douglas Barney Organization: Graybar Electric Co. Subject: Box Comb Containers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am trying some traditional box comb this year. Could someone provide me with a few sources for containers. I find half comb, cut comb and the rounds containers but none for the full box comb. Thanks from Western PA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 19:23:06 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: toxic canola products MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi All/Al Al (beckwards@juno.com) commented on the toxic properties of rape/canola. I have read and heard this too, but understand that the toxic properties have been largely bred out and genetically removed over recent years. The effects of canola oil consumption are actually noticeable in some people as an increased lethargy. Cottonseed oil is also toxic to humans, and if consumed in large amounts is far worse than canola. It is commonly used as an oil in marine products (eg mussels and oysters). You will notice that most canned products state vegetable oil, but some say canola oil or cottonseed oil - that is because these are the two oils to which more humans have negative reactions than any other so they have to be mentioned seprately. Peanut oil is next on the list of bad oils, and the least problematic is sunflower oil. Sunflowers have co-evolved with part of their lifecycle actually involving being eaten - if they killed their evolutionary partners they would be gone, so I will stick with sunflowers - which are great for the bees too. Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis 6139 South Africa Time = Honey ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 19:31:43 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Why two frames nucs flop MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi All/Tom/Donald Tom asked about whether it would be possible to duplicate the Apidae nuc with a small two frame hive. I do not know the apidae nuc, but have tried small two frame hives and have encountered the following: - energetically bees like brood on both sides of a comb, so they are not heating blank space - bees prefer not to rear brood right up against the side of a hive, and prefer to have an insulating layer of pollen on either side of the brood nest. Hence the two frame hive causes bees to suffer from the two guys wanting to use two urinals problem - if you have three frames/or urinals the respective organisms can put yellow compounds in the outer two, and the middle frame/urinals temperature remains more constant and the instincts of the respective organism are left unruffled. : ) (I have read the urinal theory in an article on effective public toilet design. I have not read the bee fact though) Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis 6139 South Africa Time = Honey ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 09:34:06 +1200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Barry Donovan Subject: Re: New hive questions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Collapse of plastic jars for feeding can be avoided by using containers that are barrel-shaped. As a hobbyist I find 2-litre clear plastic biscuit barrels are pretty good. I drill a couple of dozen small holes through the plastic screw-top, then after removing the centre four frames from the honey super I invert the full container onto the queen excluder. The barrels don't leak, the feed is right above the cluster so is accessible in all weather and over 24 hours, the feed is secure from robbing by bees from other hives, by lifting one end of the roof I can easily see how much food has been taken, and refilling is quick. Maybe three- or four litre barrels would be better, but none seem to be available where I live. Regards, Barry Donovan. New Zealand. DonovanB@Crop.cri.nz >>> 05/10/99 11:57PM >>> Another point often missed is that plastic jars can collapse, thus letting out syrup without making a vacum. Richard RASpiek@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 19:45:29 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Recombing a swarm with parent colony MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi Steve/all Steve, you mentioned you have a swarm and want to give it back to its daughter hive (I call the original hive the daughter hive, as the old queen usualy goes with the swarm!) This is easy - you have them in a cardboard box. Tape the box up and poke holes in it's lid with a pen. Before you tape the box up (I am assuming thiss is a photocopier paper box) put a frame of uncapped nectar into the box. Put a queen excluder over the old hive, put the box on the excluder and put a brood body around it. The box just fits into a brood box, then put a lid on it. It takes the bees about a day to chew in and out of the box. You will lose maybe a hundred bees AND THE OLD QUEEN to fighting, as the bees get out and go down into the brood box. The old queen cannot get through the excluder, so when you take the excluder of the next day and put it a distance from the hive the queen will be in there. I use this method if I have the time, otherwise I just take the queen out and dump the swarm in any hive. One never loses more than 5% of the swarm. Another method, but this may be capensis specific, is to take the queen out of the swarm. Then close it up, and at night dump the swarm in front of the target hive very quietly. If you don't disturb the bees in the target hive they dont sound an alarm and the new swarm integrates peacefully. Keep well Garth Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis 6139 South Africa Time = Honey ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 16:21:31 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: toxic canola products MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Science News had an article on canola oil and its effect on reducing strokes. Also, like olive oil, better for the heart than other oils. So the latest on canola oil is that it is good. But, you only have to wait a few months and it will all change again. The latest is that a low fat diet is bad for couch potatoes! Bill T Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 22:23:03 +0300 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jan Tempelman Organization: in R'dam Subject: Re: Why two frames nucs flop MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Garth wrote: > ......asked about whether it would be possible to duplicate the Apidae > nuc with a small two frame hive. I do not know the apidae nuc, photo's on http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/AluApidea.html jant. -- even...............tel. 010-2130926 -- http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/index3.html Jan Tempelman mailto:jtemp@xs4all.nl -- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 22:48:52 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ken Hoare Subject: Beekeepers never agree MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit When referring to a cure for robbing Dave said, "Plug the hive up tight, or put it into a place not accessible by bees. After a few days, the robbers will forget about it." Personally dubious whether they "will forget about it". My own method would be to removed the majority of the comb and stores, leaving just one frame containing little honey. Leave them to complete their dastardly deed and hopefully they will retire satisfied (and then forget about it). Ken Hoare ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 15:45:30 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: RASpiek@AOL.COM Subject: Combine or get a queen? Comments: To: bibba-l@zbee.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What to do? Started with 2 hives. Made 2 splits. Caught a swarm from one original hive. Now I have a hive that has already produced a medium fulll of capped honey and going great. I removeed this super and added ross round supers (2). Next to it is a hive (1 deep, 1 med) full of bees and honey. No brood eggs or larva so , I guess, no queen. Should I requeen or combine the two hives and if so what is the right way to do it? Two of the other hives are in the same shape. I am going to the 5th now. If I find another queenless hive, I may really go for a 5th. These queenless hives are mean. They sent me to get gloves and long pants. I tried to stay in there but I guess I'm not as tough as I like to think. Thanks for any help, I feel like I need to do something very soon. Richard BTW. 1queenless hive was left after a swarm and had queen cells and brood. I left it to raise its own queen. No luck there. The other queenless hive was given a new queen that I thought had been accepted. Guess not. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 18:18:29 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Marc Studebaker Subject: Re: Box Comb Containers Comments: To: DOUGLAS.BARNEY@GBE.COM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Doug wrote: >I am trying some traditional box comb this year. Could someone provide >me with a few sources for containers. I find half comb, cut comb and the >rounds containers but none for the full box comb. I think what you are looking for is the basswood sections. These are available from Walter Kelley co. in Clarkson KY. Marc Studebaker ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 16:58:25 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andrew & Tiffany Subject: solar wax melter Comments: To: B-List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit anyone have plans for one ? a url or info ? thanks Andrew Dubas Du-Bees Apiaries ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 14:22:17 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: De Witt Subject: bugs in hive? Comments: To: bee - L MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Boy did I get a scare just now! I opened one of my new hives and under = the Telescoping lid, but over the inner cover, there were three = "cockroach" like insects dark brown to black about 3/4 to 1" long. = Please don't let this bee what I hope it is not. I haven't heard on any = other insects co-existing in the hive with bees but they seem to be = going great guns. Each hive has gone through 2 1/2 gallons of 1:1 syrup = since last Tuesday.=20 =20 I don't think the small hive beetle is in Texas as yet at least I = haven't heard of it. (with fingers fully crossed.) =20 Any Ideas? =20 Cliff "Everything is useful from some position or other and there are some positions from which even the most useful thing is useless." ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 17:49:23 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: RASpiek@AOL.COM Subject: uncapped honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have some frames of honey that are only 80% capped and a few that are only capped on one side. Will this affect the honey when extracted? Can I keep it in a warm room to let some of the moisture evaporate and if I do will this help? I have read that uncapped honey will ferment and also that it can cause dissentery and do not want either. Thanks in advance Richard RASpiek@aol.com starting first harvest ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 20:28:23 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Hugo Aguirre Subject: searching ok Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To the list: using LISTSERV@listserv.albany.edu for the command search it works fine. Aaron Morris, thanks for the tip. Hugo Aguirre =====> hugoagui@sanguillermo.com.ar ********************************************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 19:40:05 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jim & Sue Maus Subject: Re: Beekeepers never agree MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Not necessary Ken.........Dave's Right they do quit and leave it alone ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 18:29:23 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael W Stoops Subject: FGMO Application Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit >From what I think I have read over the past couple of months, the proper way to administer FGMO is to lay a rivelet of the oil on top of the bar of a brood frame. Is this correct? Or do I need some additional information. Mike Stoops Wanna-Bee Bee Keeper ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 22:09:34 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pollinator@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Beekeepers never agree MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/11/99 7:55:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bees@KENLIA.ENTA.NET writes: > When referring to a cure for robbing Dave said, "Plug the hive up tight, or > put it into a place not accessible by bees. After a few days, the robbers > will forget about it." Robbers are usually bees near the end of their lives. The majority of them will likely die off in a week or so. There may be a community memory however. I have often noted how frequently bees will be robbing out boxes, and a couple weeks later scouting swarm homes. Then again, maybe the odor is fresher. > Personally dubious whether they "will forget about it". My own method would > be to removed the majority of the comb and stores, leaving just one frame > containing little honey. Leave them to complete their dastardly deed and > hopefully they will retire satisfied (and then forget about it). I haven't tried this, though I suppose it could work. My own idea is to stop robbing ASAP, because I generally see no good come of it. Robbing bees can be quite nasty, leading to someone in the neighborhood getting stung; they can also spread pathogens. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html The Pollination Home Page: http://www.pollinator.com Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 11:08:24 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: Ken Hoares questions about bee agression MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi All/Ken Ken it was interesting hearing your comments about AHB, and your belief that your bees may be more aggressive. I have often though, when listening and reading about people working on the EHB that there is a strong tendency for bad stinging incidents. If EHB are so peaceful, why do people need a bee suit, when here in SA I have not needed a bee suit to work many strains of African bees, including A.m.scutellata (the killers), capensis/scutellata hybrids and whatever the bees in the mountains are (capensis/scutellata hybrids? monticula??). As an african beekeeper one will never try not to use a smoker. Early learning experiences teach one fast how to use this useful implement. European bees, being slower of the mark may not teach beekeepers the importance of this tool as fast, leading on bad bee days to bad stinging events. Hence it would mean that european bee keepers are more likely to make the bees incredibly cross, but the bees are probably not as aggressive. In africa, making the bees incredibly cross is very bad...... Yesterday I worked through thirty of my hives, including some of my hybrid capensis/scutellata (from the hybrid zone) which are more grotty. I managed all of this without a suit, and got one sting to the finger tip. I was doing late autumn inspection checking queens and stores for the upcoming aloe flow. This strikes me as being a peaceful bee by anybodies standards. Keep well garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis 6139 South Africa Time = Honey ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 19:34:35 PDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Re: Canola MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I have been doing some more research on the canola question and came across the following for Australia. Crude protein content varies from 18.4% to 27.1%. This will mean that it should be good to use as feedback if trapped. In the amino acid profile, iso-leucine was a little below De Groot's recommended formula of 4%. The full information on canola and other species can be found by going to www.honeybee.com.au, click on "Whats new", then on "Protein Content & Amino Acid Profiles". When you get into this, you will see all the species listed and canola is one of them. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 07:41:46 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "CHARLES S. MCMARROW" Subject: Re: solar wax melter Andrew, I found plans for a solar wax melter at Barry Birkey's web site. www.birkey.com/blb/beekeeping/index.html You will also find plans there for building hive bodies, observation hives and an extractor. I built an insulated solar wax melter for about eight dollars two weeks ago and it works very well. I modified the dimensions on mine to permit 3 deep frames or 1 queen excluder to be placed inside. Best of luck on your project. Chuck McMarrow ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 08:10:57 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Good Article on our bee spill and Tony J MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Check http://www.portland.com/news/nemitz0512.shtml for a nice article on Tony Jadczak, our Maine State Bee Inspector and the bee spill. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 07:59:10 PDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GREGOIRE@ENDOR.COM Subject: Black Bear Damage/NH MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hello Gang, Spring is here in New Hampshire, which means that there is a lot of animal movement after an always long winter. It's a long winter even when it's shorter like the one just past. My friend Barbara has had a hive damaged by a huge black bear. Yes, she saw it. Sitting down, it's shoulder measured higher than her electric fence. The hive was behind the fence but it is a poor location, lots of rocks and ground rods are hard to drive. The fence is one of those fence post ground jobs. Meahwhile, back at Grist Mill A. We had a visitation here ourselves. A bear mashed up my wifes metal bird feeder. There has been some nibbling on the bacon wrapped around my electric fence wire too. The bacon is held on with clothes pins, and is slowly being nibbled away. No doubt a price is being paid for the treat! Which is exactly what I want. Critter remedial fence training, it is. ;-) How are the rest of you doing with apiary protection? Grist Mill Apiary Ernie Gregoire Canaan, NH. USA ------------------------------------- 05/12/99 07:59:10 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 07:00:40 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "C. Crowell" Subject: Re: bugs in hive? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit wood cockroaches. Not a problem - am told the bees will control them if they become one. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 07:16:46 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mesinger Subject: Re: bugs in hive? In-Reply-To: <199905121028.GAA14447@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" You probably are seeing cockroaches. That is why I screen the hole in the inner cover and squash them as my contribution to the bee hive. Cordially, John F. Mesinger ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 14:36:23 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: McDonoughV@AOL.COM Subject: Odd Behavior MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, As a rookie (2 years, 4 hives) I find this list very interesting and informative. One of my hives has very dark bees -- almost no yellow. Since I never write down what I do, and since I had problems with queens last year, I'm not really sure what kind of bees they are. They are probably Carnelolas (sp?). Anyway, I noticed that when I smoke them, as I did last weekend, instead of going down into the hive, many of the bees come out of the hive and kind of hover. I work my hives from the back and it seems as if they are towards the front, in the air, just looking at me. Their guard bees are more aggressive than my other hives, but it seems as if there are usually just a few bees after me while the others are there watching. I found this odd, but I have little experience. Comments would be appreciated. Thanks, Vickie Green Harbor, MA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 10:37:34 -0400 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Organization: ACB Dept., Univ of Michigan Subject: Throw out your pail feeders! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Several people have recently posted concerning use of inverted containers for feeding sugar syrup. Such containers all have the terrible disadvantage that leakage may and usually does occur to some extent, and if too much air rushes in upon inversion of the container, a flood of syrup goes into the hive. This is not good for the bees! All newbees, as well as experienced beekeepers should pay attention instead to the use of ziplock bags, which was extensively discussed here some time ago. I myself thought I knew everything about feeding, but was very pleasantly surprised to see how well these bags work - and they will never leak one drop. (Of, course, they need to be securely zipped up first. Hopefully this is obvious.) Hardly ever does a bee drown using this technque, and there is never any wastage at all from syrup going bad unseen in a pail. I'm now just trying to find other uses for dozens of former pail feeders. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 08:24:05 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Johnson Subject: Re: bugs in hive? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I routinely have had for years those cockroaches on my inner cover as well as my wood piles that I have for my wood furnace. They seem to do no damage, but live there peaceably. They bother me more than the bees. I never have seen them in the hive itself. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 09:12:29 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Musashi Subject: Re: bugs in hive? I regularly find cockroaches in some of my hives, especially the ones in wooded areas. I think they are the large dark wood roaches. I don't often see them in my hives that have large populations of vigorous bees, but in weaker hives they appear on a regular basis. You didn't mention what part of the country (or for that matter which country) you are from, but my guess is somewhere in the southern United States. This is one of the visitors to beehives that beekeepers tend to not talk about much, but see them from time to time. Just think about how clean the bees keep their hive and about the antibiotic and antifungal properties of propolis as you eat that beautiful comb honey and make sure the health inspector isn't looking over your shoulder as you inspect your hives. Cheers, Layne Westover College Station, Texas ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 10:04:52 -0400 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Organization: ACB Dept., Univ of Michigan Subject: Re: bugs in hive? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit De Witt wrote: > Boy did I get a scare just now! I opened one of my new hives and under = > the Telescoping lid, but over the inner cover, there were three = > "cockroach" like insects dark brown to black about 3/4 to 1" long. = In addition to our nasty house cockroaches, there are several wild species which live in the woods and fields. Occasionally I have had these living on the inner cover, and they run quickly when the hive is opened. I had been worried that they might take up residence in the honey house when bringing supers in, but in my 30 years of beekeeping I never saw them except upon the inner covers. I concluded that they were harmless. The small hive beetles are much smaller than 3/4 inch. Don't worry that these are what you saw. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 07:31:34 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Canola In-Reply-To: <199905121029.GAA14625@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > In the amino acid profile, iso-leucine was a little below De > Groot's recommended formula of 4%. It also appears that tryptophan falls at a zero level in canola pollen in these studies. The chart at http://www.honeybee.com.au/Library/pollen/brassica.html indictates that tryptophan is an necssary amino acid, so unless this is obtained somewhere, there could be a deficiency problem. This is one of the problems of pollinating hybrid canola seed. The growers go to pains to try to ensure that there are no competing crops nearby. We are considering pollen supplementation with patties while on pollination, but, of course that is work at a time when we have lots to do. We are impressed by how many hives we have lost over the year since beginning pollination compared to our old honey production days. There is lots more to say on the subject of canola, but I have a few hundred cells to put in today, so will save it for later. (Remind me). Nonetheless, I will say that many Western Canadian beekeepers have suspected canola of some mild toxicity to bees for a long time. The double-zero varieties are an improvement, but canola honey is one of the main reasons that some of us do not consider honey to be nearly as good a wintering or spring feed as sugar. Two final caveats: 1.) One should use caution in assuming that the canolas grown today are all the same as -- or even closely similar to -- the ones tested and displayed on the website cited above, or that the profiles will be the same on all soils or growing conditions. Nonetheless, these results are most valuable as an indicator. 2.) We must remember that the showing of amino acid contents to two decimal places is suspect outside the lab. Even when rounded, I'd suggest that they should be regarded as rough numbers when used in in practice. allen ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 15:07:58 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ken Hoare Subject: Bee aggression MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I really do sing 'Rule Britannia' louder than anyone else, but Garth in his reply regarding my criticisms of the UK mongrel bee made another point of which I am so supportive, that is the use of the smoker, maybe that instrument is what antagonises our bee. Garth stated, "As an African beekeeper one will ((never)) try not to use a smoker. Early learning experiences teach one fast how to use this useful implement." But go to any demonstration in the UK and the first thing the majority of operators do is blast obnoxious smoke in through the entrance, suppose to dull the 'attack' response, something about thinking their home is shortly to be engulfed with fire. And then they expect to find the queen, or more importantly judge the strength of that colony, no chance as you have alarmed the colony, and maybe even made them more defensive. No as always (well maybe the majority of the time) I agree with Garth, the smoker is a tool to be used when needed and not as an instrument to torture our beloved insect. My apiaries are a 'smokeless zone' (apart from the piece of rosewood filled with good English cured tobacco I dangle from my mouth), but readily available if needed, and generally my lot are a peaceful bunch. Ken Hoare ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 12:36:08 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: combining hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit RASpiek said "Next to it is a hive (1 deep, 1 med) full of bees and honey. No brood eggs or larva so , I guess, no queen. Should I requeen or combine the two hives and if so what is the right way to do it?" My personal preference would be to combine the two hives. (Others may have a different preference.) To do this, it is "best" to shake the bees in front of the queenright hive, then move the wood from the shaken hive to another part of the apiary. If you have another hive that is queenright, put the moved wood on top of it. If not, either seal it up tight and treat to prevent wax moth, or leave it in the sunlight with no top. Otherwise, wax moth will destroy your valuable combs. If not used on another hive, in about two weeks take a frame of eggs and larvae, a frame of pollen, and a frame of honey from the strongest hive, and put in this wood. They will produce a fine queen and probably a full super of honey for the winter. Good luck, Lloyd Lloyd Spear Owner, Ross Rounds(tm). The finest in comb honey production. http://www.rossrounds.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 14:53:09 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert Barnett Subject: Re: bugs in hive? Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > From: De Witt > To: BEE-L@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: bugs in hive? > Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 14:22:17 -0500 > , there were three = >"cockroach" like insects dark brown to black about 3/4 to 1" long. = >Please don't let this bee what I hope it is not. >I don't think the small hive beetle is in Texas >Cliff Hello Cliff! What you saw is simple enough....They *are* cockroaches! They are found usually around the inner covers, mostly above them in colonies here in Alabama. I don't recall seeing them elsewhere in the colony unless it was extremely weak. Not to start debate as to their significaance, or as to whether or not they could/can vector disease or infection by way of the honey, and I will accept the point that they are somewhat repulsive in appearance. There is nothing in the hive that they can contaminate. So, however this make strike you, they probably essentially harmless. If you are worried about hive beetles, forget it1 These roaches are far to large to qualify; finally you cannot poison these pests without killing the bees. The interesting question to me is how do they get up in the top of the colony without a very poorly fitting hive top. Has anyone seen bees in a hostile mode toward bees? I don't believe I have. Bob Barnett Birmingham, Al. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 16:15:37 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard E Leber Subject: Re: solar wax melter MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Tue, 11 May 1999 16:58:25 -0400 Andrew & Tiffany writes: >anyone have plans for one (solar wax melter)? a url or info ? > >Andrew Dubas >Du-Bees Apiaries > Check with Steve Forest at Brushy Mountain. For a buck and a quarter he has a set of plans for a bigg'n... double glass hinged lid, insulated, flat bottom and a 'trap' door to sneak out the wax pan. e-mail: sforrest@ wilkes.net web site: www.beeequipment.com Richard & Nancy Leber Beekeeping and Honey Production Since 1987 Mobile, "Sweet Home Alabama" Ricks.Toy@juno.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 18:38:51 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert Dahlgren Subject: Re: bugs in hive? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I wonder , are these bugs really cock roaches or are they Ear Wigs. Ear Wigs look some what similar to cock roaches and like to assemble under the inner covers. I don't believe that they do any damage. Bob Dahlgren -----Original Message----- From: Bill Johnson To: BEE-L@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU Date: Wednesday, May 12, 1999 3:15 PM Subject: Re: bugs in hive? >I routinely have had for years those cockroaches on my inner cover as well as >my wood piles that I have for my wood furnace. They seem to do no damage, >but live there peaceably. They bother me more than the bees. I never have >seen them in the hive itself. > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 08:49:07 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert Dahlgren Subject: Re: FGMO Application MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Michael, Dr. Rodriquez applied FGMO by running a thin ribbon of oil on the top bars. I run a small brush over this to spread the oil more so that it isn't pooled up. Bob Dahlgren -----Original Message----- From: Michael W Stoops To: BEE-L@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU Date: Wednesday, May 12, 1999 6:30 AM Subject: FGMO Application >Mime-version: 1.0 >X-Priority: 3 >Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > >>From what I think I have read over the past couple of months, the proper way >to administer FGMO is to lay a rivelet of the oil on top of the bar of a >brood frame. Is this correct? Or do I need some additional information. > >Mike Stoops Wanna-Bee Bee Keeper > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 19:06:02 -0700 Reply-To: pyramid@epix.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pyramid Subject: Bear damage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Ernie Gregoire et al Its probably not the bears eating your bacon but the birds. Here in Pennsylvania the main culprits are titmice. At this time, its lasts about two weeks. With regard to electric fences, when it is dry and the fence is simple with only a few hot wires, it is difficult to get contact from the wire, through the bear, and into the ground. Multiple wires, alternating hot and grounded, greatly improves your fence. You seldom know if your fence is effective -- only when it isn't. Burns ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 21:13:20 -0400 Reply-To: mpalmer@together.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Palmer Organization: French Hill Apiaries Subject: black bear damage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ernie Gregoire wants to know about black bear damage. I have bee yards in New York on the blue line (boundary of the Adirondack park). Prime bear habitat don't ya know. I've had only one bear visit this year so far. I hadn't replaced the batteries in my charger yet. My own fault. They say that once a bear starts working a bee yard, he can't be stopped. Not true! I set the hives back up, picked up the mess, and left. Came back the next day with batteries. Of course he'd been back. Took the same hive. Killed it this time. I replaced the batteries and he hasn't entered the yard again. I recommend a Gallagher charger. The model number is B-11. It uses 6 D cell batteries. They last 10 weeks. It can also be hooked up to a 12 volt deep cycle marine battery. Supposed to last 6 months. I use a 3-wire fence, all hot. For ground rods, I use a standard ground rod cut in half. Drive the first one in next to the charger, and the second one 100 feet away outside the fence. Drive them in at an angle if you have ledge or rocky conditions. Connect them with "ground" wire. Ground wire looks like electric fence wire, but is made special for grounding applications.Drape bacon on the top wire of the fence every 5 or 10 feet. With this set-up, I have never had a repeat performance. Also, check your insurance policy. Your bees might be covered. My farm policy covers mine. You won't have your bees back, but you may get enough $$ to cover the cost of the fence. The charger is $110. Also doesn't it seem that the bear tips over hives until he finds a punky on that won't sting so badly and eats that one. Sure seems that way. Hope this helps Ernie. Mike ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 01:29:53 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: RockyTop Farm Subject: Re: Bear damage prevention In-Reply-To: GREGOIRE@endor.com's message of Wed, 12 May 1999 07:59:10 PDT Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Hi Everyone, I just read Ernie Gregoire's post regarding bear damage in NH. I recently purchased a "Critter Gitter" from Better Bee, thinking I could use it instead of electric fencing. Does anyone have any knowledge of, or experience with this device? Thank you, Barb Miller ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 07:42:28 +0100 Reply-To: Ruary Rudd Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ruary Rudd Subject: Re: FGMO Application MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: Robert Dahlgren Date: 12 May 1999 13:49 Subject: Re: FGMO Application >Hi Michael, > >Dr. Rodriquez applied FGMO by running a thin ribbon of oil on the top bars. >I run a small brush over this to spread the oil more so that it isn't pooled >up. > In a later version Dr. Rodriguez used a pipe cleaner as a wick with an inverted bottle supplying a continuous flow through the wick. The cleaner was placed at a level that incoming bees had to brush through the wick to enter the hive. Ruary Rudd rrudd@tinet.ie ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 15:27:32 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "- Clark Chase , Zodiac Farms" Subject: Re: Black Bear Damage/NH MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/12/99 6:48:38 PM, GREGOIRE@endor.com writes: << Ernie Gregoire>> Dear Ernie; U of Me. suggests a solution to the poor grounding of electric fences against bears at colony yards is to connect your ground terminal to poultry netting (metallic) laid out continually along the ground immediately outsine the electric fence, thereby giving Brother Bruin a real hot-foot. Try it, it works! clark Chase , Zodiac Farms, Westport, Ma. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 21:55:46 -0500 Reply-To: lkrengel@mc.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Larry Krengel Subject: Re: Black Bear Damage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit GREGOIRE@endor.com wrote: > > How are the rest of you doing with apiary protection? > Ernie - I too had my black bear problems - three damaging attacks in two years. These hives were located in far northeastern Wisconsin where the bear population has increased in recent years. I built a bee house with rough-sawn wood from the local mill - about 12 ft by 12 feet with a shed roof. It is not as fancy as the ones I have heard of in Europe, but I can protect 8 hives. The bears were back this spring. The hives inside were not touched, but I had one bait hive sitting outside with one drawn frame and the rest foundation. The bear broke in, rejected the foundation, and made a snack of the tasty drawn frame. This seems a good solution for a small-time beekeeper. If you wish I will send you a photo, but it would make a rather large file and I would not choose to post it to the list. Larry Krengel Marengo, Illinois USA (and Athelstane, Wisconsin) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 20:17:03 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: bill bartlett Subject: AHB MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Bee-Lers, Has anything been attributed to the AHB's not moving East. That seems strange since they have moved so many miles to the West. I understand that the weather is more conducive going West. I wonder if they could be mixing with the bees in the other Gulf states and we just don't realize it. William A. Bartlett 19124 Lake Drive Leonardtown, Maryland 20650 Bartlett@us.hsanet.net 38.25 N, 76.60 W ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 04:25:20 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: combining hives In-Reply-To: <199905122010.QAA00618@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > My personal preference would be to combine the two hives. > (Others may have a different preference.) To do this, > it is "best" to shake the bees in front of the queenright > hive... I'll go along with that. Here's why I personally seldom try to requeen a hive: Unless it is recently queenless, the bees are likely to be aging, and it may or may not accept the new queen well. Who knows, it may have a non-laying queen, or a cell, or a virgin that will prevent successful introduction. Combining with a good queen-right hive will take care of all that and, besides, usually I have a hive that I can combine it with to the benefit of both, and as Lloyd says, make a new split later. Splitting later is easy to do without searching queens by simply taking a few brood frames, gently shaking the bees off, placing them in a new brood box above an excluder on the hive for a while, and maybe smoking the entrance to drive the bees up -- or simply leaving the lid off. As soon as there are more than enough bees in the new split and more than covering the brood, which should be in all stages, it can be taken to another location. There it can be allowed to raise a queen if the season is right and there are lots of young bees, or given a queen. She will likely be readily accepted by the new split. FWIW, when combining. I usually just set the two hives together without paper or anything. This requires judgement, but if conditions are such that bees that are shaken out will be accepted, then it is equally likely the two hives will combine peaceably. No guarantees tho' and in some districts this is much harder to get away with. allen ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 06:15:42 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Dr. Abdo Husseiny" Organization: Technology International Incorporated of Virginia, 429 West Airline Highway, Suite S, LaPlace, LA 70068-3817, USA Office: (504)652-1127, FX (504)652-1196, Cellular: (504)487-2182 Subject: query MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We are conducting an R&D projects on honey bee products as source of alternative medicine and apitherapy. Any suggestions! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 08:00:23 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jean-Francois Lariviere Subject: Re: Recordkeeping Method Comments: cc: dv23@cornell.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Great question, Thom. I just finished an Apprentice Beekeeping Course, sponsored by Cornell University Dyce Laboratory for Honey Bee Studies. Our last chapter was on Record Keeping and it was recommended that we keep at least 3 Journals. A Bloom Journal (tracking nectar & blooming of your local flora), a Expense Journal (to track beekeeping expenses including mileage) and a Yard Journal (tracking hives in each Bee Yard). It was also suggested to keep individual Colony Records for each hive if you intend to raise Queens. Like yourself, I was pleased to get some guidance on this topic since it is very important to tracking your successes and failures. Bee Healthy, Jean-Francois Lariviere http://hometown.aol.com/BeeHealthy/beehive.html In a message dated 5/7/99 2:09:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mayortb@ix.netcom.com writes: << In short, I haven't seen a discussion of record keeping. I also note a lack of symposium/ short course subjects related to record keeping. Any bites? Thom Bradley Chesapeake, VA >> ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 19:50:35 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: SoVerNet Verification (on garnet.sover.net) sover.net from arc1a272.bf.sover.net [209.198.81.146] 209.198.81.146 Thu, 13 May 1999 08:13:43 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jeffrey R. Hills" Subject: Entrance Question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Several hives of mine have become accustomed to coming and going via the upper vent I used this winter (nothing more than a half-round opening in the top board). They are completely ignoring the traditional now-fully-opened opening at the bottom of the hive. Am I worried about this? In each one of these hives, the queen and most of the bees seem to be in the upper of the two deep boxes. Thanks a lot for any opinions. JRH ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 11:11:44 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Entrance Question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Perfectly natural - bees move UP eating their winter stores. I don't know your location, but this is MAY and you should have reversed the brood boxes long ago, and should have supers in place unless you are near Canada. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 20:46:01 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter@AOL.COM Subject: Scout bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is there any evidence to indicate that bees scout for a new site prior to swarming or is the scouting all done from the swarm when it is clustered on the tree branch. Today I had one get by me and I set out a bait hive with old comb and a pheremone capsule. Also do the bees show a preference for cedar trees as I find may swarms here in CT to be in the top 1/4 of cedar trees. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 06:55:16 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Scout Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT BeeCrofter@aol.com asks: > Is there any evidence to indicate that bees scout for a new site prior to > swarming... According to Roger Morse, bees will scout a new location days before swarming. In fact, Roger claims, scouts will even go so far as to "stake a claim" to their potentially new site by camping out, even overnight(!) at the new abode. This was published in "Bee Culture" a few years back (haven't a clue what issue). > Also do the bees show a preference for cedar trees as I find may swarms here > in CT to be in the top 1/4 of cedar trees. Dunno - have never seen anything asserting such (which doesn't mean the assertion hasn't been made, I HAVEN'T seen it all). Perhaps there are just a lot of cedar trees in CT. ;-) Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 01:47:44 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jorn Johanesson Subject: Sv: Re: Recordkeeping Method MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: Jean-Francois Lariviere Til: BEE-L@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU Dato: 13. maj 1999 14:07 Emne: Re: Recordkeeping Method Try to have a look at my software! It is approved by the Danish beekeeping Society and have been under developing for about 10 years now, and the developing is still ongoing. software is for hivetracking and queenbreeding best regards Jorn Johanesson EDBi = multilingual Beekeeping software since 1987 http://home4.inet.tele.dk/apimo (Denmark) http://wn.com.au/apimo (Australia) http://apimo.dk (USA) apimo@post4.tele.dk apimo@wn.com.au Jorn_Johanesson@apimo.dk ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 21:29:47 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard E Leber Subject: Bears Comments: To: bee-l@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit An old beekeepers' tale tells of placing discarded hot water heaters upright in your beeyard to discourage bears. We do not have a big problem with this particular hive marauder in South Alabama but, for the investment ,maintenance and up keep costs the idea should bee worth a try. Rick & Nancy Leber Beekeeping & Honey Production Since 1987 Mobile, 'Sweet Home Alabama' ricks.toy@juno.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 00:36:43 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pollinator@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Scout bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/14/99 12:26:21 AM Eastern Daylight Time, BeeCrofter@aol.com writes: > Is there any evidence to indicate that bees scout for a new site prior to > swarming or is the scouting all done from the swarm when it is clustered on > the tree branch. > Today I had one get by me and I set out a bait hive with old comb and a > pheremone capsule. > Also do the bees show a preference for cedar trees as I find may swarms here > in CT to be in the top 1/4 of cedar trees. I think they do some ahead of time. I have seen swarms issue and immediately go into a stack of supers. I don't know about the cedar trees. I suspect it has more to do with a convenient resting spot for the queen. Wherever she lands, the swarm will pitch. I noticed swarm scouts looking over the equipment in front of the honeyhouse this morning. This afternoon a swarm moved into a stack. Gotta love those freebies! Especially since it didn't come from one of my hives....... I caught a swarm very early this season in an area where no bees have been kept for about ten years. I had a bee yard in that neighborhood, but they were vandalized and I gave up that spot. I'm sure I would know about it if anyone else had a hive. At any rate the swarm was small, and I did nothing at all to feed or encourage it. It is now what I call a "buster." I spent awhile the other day looking for varroa mites, and did not find a single one, though they have not been treated. Here's hoping.......! The only drawback so far is that they are quite sassy. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html The Pollination Home Page: http://www.pollinator.com Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 01:34:20 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Sid Pullinger Subject: uncapped honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >I have some frames of honey that are only 80% capped and a few that are only capped on one side. Will this affect the honey when extracted? Can I keep it in a warm room to let some of the moisture evaporate and if I do will this help? I have read that uncapped honey will ferment and also that it can cause dissentery and do not want either.< The easy way out is to spin the combs gently in the extractor without uncapping them. Notice I said gently. This honey can then be set aside for early consumption. I run twenty plus stocks so can have quite a lot. I turn it into mead or give it away with the warning eat soon. Keeping it in a warm room may make matters worse. If your climate has reasonable humidity the honey will take in water rather than give it up. The golden rule for the hobby beekeeper is once off the hive get the honey into the extractor as quickly as possible. Unripe honey usually has an excellent flavour. Just right for cornflakes and coffee. It certainly won't give you dysentery. If you keep it until it is fermenting strongly you would not want to eat it anyway. Sid P. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 15:29:39 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Edwards Organization: Hayden Bee Lab, USDA-ARS,Tucson, Arizona Subject: Re: AHB MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit bill bartlett wrote: > Has anything been attributed to the AHB's not moving East. - Is anybody looking for them, or would everybody be happier if they were not found ?? John F. Edwards Carl Hayden Bee Research Center Tucson, Arizona 85719 32.27495 N 110.9402 W http://198.22.133.109/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 07:16:45 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Spouse's allergy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I know a beekeeper whose spouse has become allergic to bee stings- or has more serious reactions to stings than before he started beekeeping. I have been told that this is not unusual if you change your bee suit in the house. You supposedly bring in enough detrius from the bees to gradually sensitize anyone in the house to bees, so when they are stung, they have more severe allergic reactions. would appreciate your comments, observations. Bill T Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 08:37:34 -0400 Reply-To: String & Linda Monteith Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: String & Linda Monteith Subject: Re: Spouse's allergy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You supposedly bring in >enough detrius from the bees to gradually sensitize anyone in the >house to bees, so when they are stung, they have more severe >allergic reactions Then why don't beekeepers become sensitized? I'm not doubting you, but I don't see how this could be possible. I have always changed my bee suit in the house, but don't know if we have been sensitized. We never get stung to find out. Linda Monteith, Wilmington, OH ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 08:32:29 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mesinger Subject: Re: Scout bees In-Reply-To: <199905140431.AAA07290@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I have had a swarm trap in a pine tree some 20 feet from a hive [which is the location of swarms last year] which first superceded their queen and then, packing so much honey everywhere, raised 12 swarm cells, and there were "scout bees for the first time that I could see looking into the trap hive. When I destroyed the swarm cells [save several I took for a NUC experiment], I have seen no further activity around the swarm trap [which has 4 parial sheets of embossed wax inside at the top and two pheroneme capsules inside]. Cordially, John F. Mesinger ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 07:11:05 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Scout Bees In-Reply-To: <199905141055.GAA10104@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > According to Roger Morse, bees will scout a new location days before > swarming. In fact, Roger claims, scouts will even go so far as to > "stake a claim" to their potentially new site by camping out, even > overnight(!) at the new abode. This is true, and this is why bees will often ignore bait hives that are placed too late to get seriously considered. Bait hives work best when they have been left on a site for several weeks. They work evn better if the bees have robbed a bit of honey out of them at some point in the weeks leading up to swarming. allen ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 08:15:22 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Subject: FGMO Update Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit For those of you who have been asking lately about current results of using Food Grade Mineral Oil, I just posted the latest paper by Dr. Rodriguez. http://www.birkey.com/blb/beekeeping/minoiltest.html -Barry -- Barry Birkey West Chicago, Illinois barry@birkey.com http://www.birkey.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 10:01:26 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Elizabeth Petofi Subject: Re: Scout bees and Bee sonar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Is there any evidence to indicate that bees scout for a new site prior > to > swarming or is the scouting all done from the swarm when it is > clustered on > the tree branch. I have some questions about this, too and hope this does not sound too weird. I am a new beekeeper with four hives purchased back in February, all of which swarmed, two small swarms (separate days) landing in the same site, on a trellis in a very thorny rose bush. The first swarm I smoked and knocked into a hive very roughly, and they seem to have adapted nicely to their new home. I did that because I didn't know better. Then I had some instructions from the very nice beekeeper who sold them to me, who said to put an empty hive as close under them as I could get it and they would just kind of melt like ice down into it. This I tried, bending branches down and they politely and slowly receded UP the branch, away from the empty hive. I found the swarm at 2:50 pm. Hours later, the swarm had drooped down, and many bees went in the hive and walked around on the frames (which smelled deliciously of honey and wax) and came out. Meanwhile, lots of free-flying bees in the air. I have a low stone wall, so protected in my bee gear, I sat at eye level about two feet from the swarm on a pretty day. But I think the bees have sonar. I heard over and over again a strange high noise like skreeeeee skree skree skree. It was not irritating and nervewracking like a locust. It sounded comforting and consoling. Am I nuts? Was the queen saying, "I am here. I am here. Stay with me. Stay with me. Don't trust that trap, we have a better place to go." ????? At 7:10 pm I made a big funnel with a white jacket and an old wire screen and forced this swarm into my hive box and set it up as I had the other one, but in a few days, all but about 20 of the bees were gone. How smart are bees, anyway? Had these bees already picked another location? Did I hear one (or them) calling out to the others? These were not overlapping sounds like two bees ..... What does anybody know about bee sonar? Elizabeth Petofi near Orange, Virginia ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 10:24:38 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Spouse's allergy Comments: To: String & Linda Monteith MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Beekeeper does not get sensitized because we are stung often. I do not know if the spouse sensitizing is fact. It is a hypothesis but, for the person I know, is very real. I am looking for either support of the hypothesis or a reason it is not valid- which may be difficult since allergic reactions are individually unique and not universal. Bill T Bath, M String & Linda Monteith wrote: > Then why don't beekeepers become sensitized? I'm not doubting you, but I > don't see how this could be possible. I have always changed my bee suit in > the house, but don't know if we have been sensitized. We never get stung to > find out. Linda Monteith, Wilmington, OH ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 11:45:06 -0400 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Organization: ACB Dept., Univ of Michigan Subject: Re: Spouse's allergy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In my opinion, it really would be quite impossible for a person to become sensitized to bee venom, which is injected by the sting into the body, by breathing dust coming off a beesuit. A person becomes sensitized to venom by becoming stung over a period of time. A person might also become sensitized to the various large molecules in the dust of a beesuit by breathing it, but this would be a different matter entirely. However, if a person already has a tendency to develop allergies, hay fever, athsma, etc., then that person would be more apt to develop a systematic reaction (anaphylaxis) to a sting. Such a person could also possibly develop a different (although similar) reaction to beesuit dust. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 14:15:18 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Scout bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well that swarm has been knocked into a box the old fashioned way- they settled lower in a neighbors shrubs and I knocked em in to a box of combs and foundation. I set up bait hives but then steal them back to make splits as equipment runs low. I usually leave a jar of honey with my name and phone number with anyone who lets me on their property to catch a swarm. My experiance has shown that swarms tend to show up at the same place year after year and a phone call is always nice. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 11:55:06 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: amy thomson Subject: Beeswax and Wiring Jig ???s Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I've been cleaning out swarm cells and bridge comb and stuff, and tossing it on the ground, assuming that the bees would scavenge the wax and use it in the hive. But mostly the wax is just sitting there. Do bees reuse old wax? Should I leave it there, or should I just go ahead and melt it down? And does anyone know where I can find plans for a wiring jig and instructions on how to wire frames? I've got 40 frames to wire, and none of the proper tools to get them tight enough. Many Thanks! Amy Thomson ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 20:55:14 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jorn Johanesson Subject: Sv: Re: Spouse's allergy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: String & Linda Monteith Til: BEE-L@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU Dato: 14. maj 1999 15:09 Emne: Re: Spouse's allergy >Then why don't beekeepers become sensitized? It can happen I can assure You! Beekeepers can develop allergic reaction to bee venom. even if the most beekeepers are not, some few are. When it happens, as little as one sting will threaten your life in that, that an allergic reaction might be leading to a chock, and if you don't get help then the result can be life threatening. Bee venom consist of more than one element. one is the poision, that you can put at level of snake poision. Another part is the protein stuff, which is what you are swelling from, and which also is the stuff you get allergic to, if you get allergic reaction. best regards Jorn Johanesson EDBi = multilingual Beekeeping software since 1987 http://home4.inet.tele.dk/apimo (Denmark) http://wn.com.au/apimo (Australia) http://apimo.dk (USA) apimo@post4.tele.dk apimo@wn.com.au Jorn_Johanesson@apimo.dk ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 10:20:49 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Blane White Subject: Re: Spouse's allergy Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Hi Everyone, Research on bee sting allergy was done some years ago at Mayo Clinic in Rochester MN. They used family members of beekeepers because they had a much higher risk of developing actual sting allergy than the general population. They developed the very successful desentization program using pure bee venom. So to answer Bill's question yes family members of beekeepers who do not work the bees and get stung are much more likely to develope allergy to stings. The desentization does work and could be a good and reasonable option in my mind much better than the epi-pen which needs to be carried always and you have to watch the expiry dates etc. I always wonder about MD's who will prescribe the epi-pen but not discuss desentization ( an actual cure ) with the patient it just does not seem reasonable to me. blane ****************************************** Blane White MN Dept of Agriculture ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 14:13:53 -0500 Reply-To: davidscott@mtgroup.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Scott Subject: Re: Spouse's allergy In-Reply-To: <199905141902.PAA17318@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is a copy of a post by George Imirie from December regarding allergic reactions to bee venom. I thought it was remarkable enough to save it. David Scott davidscott@mtgroup.com http://www.access-developer.com http://www.mtgroup.com ----- BEGIN COPY ----- John: Just got back from 3 week trip and noted your E-mail about allergies to stings. I am in my 65 th year of beekeeping, went into antiphalactic shock 34 years ago when I got about 70 stings in a few minutes. Two honeybee sting SPECIALISTS at Johns Hopkins provided me with the answer: After having bees then for 31 years, I had become so efficient that I was NOT BEING STUNG ENOUGH to maintain a sting immunity. Treatment: Get stung often, even every day. I have done this for the past 34 years, and can get 100 stings all at once without any effect and no change in blood pressure. I really HATE to say this, but it is fact so I must so it. Most allergists, irrespective of their medical school fame or their own knowledge primarily treat "hay Fever", and frankly KNOW LITTLE ABOUT HONEYBEE VENOM. I would suggest you correspond with either Dr. Gulden or Dr. Valentine at Johns Hopkins Medical Center in Baltimore. They have spent the last 30-40 years doing little more than investigating honey bee sting problems. Most allergists tell you to "stop beekeeping", because that is the "easy" way out for them. If you are a "true" devotee of apis mellifera, you will hunt up Gulden and Valentine. Good Luck and Happy Holidays George Imirie ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 16:31:29 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Spouse's allergy In-Reply-To: <199905142038.QAA18554@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > The desentization does > work and could be a good and reasonable option in my mind much better > than the epi-pen which needs to be carried always and you have to > watch the expiry dates etc. My understanding is that when you have to use an epi-pen you still have to get to a hospital ASAP, because all it does the epinephrine does is slow down the inevitable in such an extreme case. An epi-pen will not save you if you are really allergic, just buy you some time. You will never know, because severe reactions often self-limit and stop short of killing the victim. But who can take that chance? Most MDs know little more than a layman about bee sting allergies -- and are confused by what they have learned, since the subject is complex and reactions are unpredictable -- so don't believe what you are told unless you are told by a specialist. Even then a second opinion might be appropriate. allen ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 15:57:15 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Allergies Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dr. Thomas D. Bell here in Missoula, MT published one of the first papers on bee sting allergies among members of beekeeper families. In MT, where we have large commercial operations, there is a disproportionately high number of spouses and childrent who are hypersensitive. Best guess is that is has something to do with long term contact with venoms, pollen, bee body parts in clothing, etc. This appears to be somewhat the same as people with allergies to dust mites or to a friend of mine who had to give up automotive repair after long term contact with grease and oil. One recommendation, don't bring dirty suits, etc. into the house to wash with the family clothes. As per the desensitizing shots. The pure venom shots are more effective than the "bee parts". Many allergists don't prescribe because of cost. Over the past 25 years, occassionally one of my students starts to become sensitive to stings. Most get less sensitive. Of those who begin to reacte, most have left to do other things. One loved bees so much she went through the shots. Bell says she reacted about as bad as he had ever seen. Today, she works with bees on a split appointment with the Smithsonian and Univ. of MD. I just got back from shaking bees at Hot Springs. Among the beekeeper's children are some who react very badly. One was helped by the shots, the other wasn't. Finally, one of my colleagues studies birds in remote parts of Mexico. He got the shots after finding out that he was very allergic. It gives him a lot of protection when working far from medical attention. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 09:04:30 PDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Re: Spouse's allergy In-Reply-To: <199905141115.HAA10405@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Bill T wrote > I know a beekeeper whose spouse has become allergic to bee > stings- or has more serious reactions to stings than before he > started beekeeping. I have been told that this is not unusual if > you change your bee suit in the house. In 1995 when attending the Canadian Honey Council meeting at Edmonton, I spoke with the wife of a prominent beekeeper from Alberta. She told me exactly the same as Bill posted. She had been told this by a specialist so it was not just supposition by someone so I believe it can happen in the way Bill described. Apparently she had been told to make sure she was stung at least once a week to get the full dose and not just the small dose she was being subjected to. If would urge anyone who might have this allergic to discuss it with their specialist before doing the same thing. However, it could be worthwhile mentioning in conversation. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA