From MAILER-DAEMON Fri Sep 17 12:52:15 1999 Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27305 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:52:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA11095 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:52:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199909171652.MAA11095@listserv.albany.edu> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:52:09 -0400 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8d)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG9905C" To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Content-Length: 189079 Lines: 4342 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 20:42:05 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: harold37@EAGNET.COM Subject: stings Comments: To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable hi folks, you can reverse your immunity to bee stings by taking too strong a dose = or too many anti-inflammatory drugs. These include ibuprofen, = fenoprofen, naproxen, ketoprofen, sulindac, piroxicam, suprofen and = tolmetin. This happened to my wife. Harold ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 21:13:14 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Spouse's allergy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bill T.: I hate to answer these controversial or delicate questions like you have asked regarding sting sensitivity. However, David Scott has kept and just sent to you an article about myself, so I better defend myself. Just as my article of years ago states, I get stung EVERY DAY including Christmas Day and Thanksgiving in spite of freezing weather in order to PROTECT myself against anaphylactic shock, following sting specialists orders. Allen Dick wrote with courage enough to say that many allergists are not highly skilled concerning honey bee stings and one should search for a STING SPECIALIST. I TOTALLY AGREE with Allen; and after all, how many good allergists are going to look a patient in the eye and say " I don't know much about bee stings, so you better search for a specialist"? I am friendly with several allergists, and they have agreed with me, saying "they are not well trained in bee sting allergies". Since I haven't worn gloves in over 20 years, and often work without a veil or put on demonstrations of bee beards; I cannot agree with Linda who said "we never get stung" That is not beeKEEPING, but rather beeHAVING. I don't like saying these things, but some where down the line, future beekeepers have to know the truth to our wonderful hobby or business. George Imirie ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 21:43:11 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Beeswax and Wiring Jig ???s MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Amy: Bees will NOT pick-up old wax or move it. You should always recover old wax in a bucket and when you get enough, melt it down and clean it to use to make wax candles or ornaments. You can also sell it back to bee supply houses who will make new foundation from it. Telephone Brushy Mountain Bee Supply Co. @ 1-800-BEESWAX and they have frame wire jigs for sale. Gosh, YOU are unique. 95% of people today use plastic foundation or pre-wired foundation just to "escape" wiring frames. I know, because I wired frames for about 30-40 years (hated it) until pre-wired foundation and later plastic foundation came on the scene. Hope I have helped. George ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 15:29:47 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Lipscomb, Al" Subject: Re: Spouse's allergy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >In my opinion, it really would be quite impossible for a person to >become sensitized to bee venom, which is injected by the sting into the >body, by breathing dust coming off a beesuit. A person becomes >sensitized to venom by becoming stung over a period of time. A person >might also become sensitized to the various large molecules in the dust >of a beesuit by breathing it, but this would be a different matter >entirely. Could some of the proteins that would get on the suit from coming into contact with "bee parts" cause the spouse's immune system to begin to develop antibodies. For example it is now thought that breathing the dust of roach remains can cause some problems. Once the immune system has begun to "key" to these proteins, then the larger exposure from a the contents of the posion sac could cause the systematic reaction. If the same proteins are in the dust and the sting then it could have some relation. Maybe? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 17:15:48 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Spouse's allergy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Blaine, Did they giive a reason why family members had a higher risk? Comes back to changing the bee suit in the house as the only one my friend can figure out. But it could also be other bee products we bring in. Thanks for confirming his supposition. Bill T Bath, Me Blane White wrote: > > Hi Everyone, > Research on bee sting allergy was done some years ago at Mayo Clinic > in Rochester MN. They used family members of beekeepers because they > had a much higher risk of developing actual sting allergy than the > general population. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 17:30:00 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Gothoney@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Beeswax and Wiring Jig ???s MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have been using a cross with two additional horizontal wires for added strength. I tighten them by hand easily. It is worth the extra time to have 4 wires with the middle two criss, crossed. Regards, a proud owner of Pierco frames for the past 5 years!!!!!!!!!!!! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 21:50:37 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: EMakovec@AOL.COM Subject: Re: bugs in hive? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit When I began beekeeping 4 years ago, I was shocked to see cockroaches hanging out between the inner and outer covers. Now I'm used to it. It seems no matter how strong or busy the colony, they'll tolerate a couple of roaches or ants up there as long as they don't show their ugly faces down below. I've never seen them in the supers or brood boxes. Eugene Makovec Kirkwood, MO ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 20:18:09 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: AHB? A possible solution Comments: To: APIS-L@lists.ufl.edu In-Reply-To: <3739EA73.263D4E10@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi All It is interesting to read the facts included in the latest APIS. A nice peace of work. Reading a number of possible ways of solving a number of problems facing the AHB (african honey bee) danger zone have occurred to me. Firstly, the spread of AHB in the southern states will be accelerated by the arrival of Aethina tumida - aHB have instinctual methods for dealing with this pest, EHB (european bees) have less of these. Hence, africanized strains are going to be selected for. In the old world, the original home of bees, stretching from the cape of good hope (home to A.m.capensis) to morocco (I think A.m.intermissa) we have a gradient of AHB's (african honey bees) and then from the other side of the mediterranean a range of EHBs stretching northwards. These bee subspecies form a stable rainbow of bees suited to their areas. Occasionally a facter causes ones range to expand, sometimes contract but never more than a few thousand kilometers (eg A.m.capensis). On a gain continent like africa these are small distances. The problem zone in the US is roughly equivalent to some bits of North Africa - where the bees are much nicer than the sometimes problematic A.m.scutellata cousins( AHB) invading the states now. Given that these bees are in contact with each other in africa, it would follow that selective introduction of 'better' african honeybees into places under threat of invasion by the less desireable AHB would be wise. The populations of feral bees would then stabilise naturally as they exist in the old world. The new bees would be resistant to A.tumida (small hive beetle) and have the associated benefits of being african (more powerful, better flight system, faster build up, better mite tolerance, greater genetic diversity to draw from), yet would not have the negative stigma which is attached to the superbees (AHB of the scutellata line). This is an interesting concept, and will of course clash with most US legislation - but most aggree it is time that legislation changed anyhow before US beekeeping completely stagnates itself in an overbred genetic bottleneck. Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis 6139 South Africa Time = Honey ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 19:48:06 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Harry Goudie Subject: Re: Spouse's allergy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There was quite a lot of discussion about this (or related subject) on beekeeping news group some time ago. As I recall it was concerning the fact that the children of beekeepers were more prone to sting allergy then none beekeeper's children. One of the reasons put forward for this was the detritus on the bees suit. However I thought at the time that it may just have been the fact that they were more likely to be stung. If I remember correctly the participants in this conversation were Jack Griffes and Murray McGregor and you could probably find the articles in Deja news. Harry Scottish Bees Issues web site:- http://www.luichartwoollens.freeserve.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 19:04:59 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Harry Goudie Subject: Re: Spouse's allergy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Since I haven't worn gloves in over 20 years, and often work without a veil >or put on demonstrations of bee beards; I cannot agree with Linda who said >"we never get stung" That is not beeKEEPING, but rather beeHAVING. > > George Imirie I must say that I do not agree with George here. Beekeeping is the art of looking after your bees ie trying to ensure that they are healthy and happy. It has nothing to do with whether YOU get stung or whether YOU are happy or unhappy. Many so called beekeepers today are actually honey farmers who care very little about there bees, only how much honey/profit they make at the end of the year! Harry ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 04:59:05 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Beeswax and Wiring Jig ???s In-Reply-To: <199905141902.PAA17279@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I've been cleaning out swarm cells and bridge comb and stuff, and > tossing it on the ground, assuming that the bees would scavenge > the wax and use it in the hive. But mostly the wax is just sitting > there. Do bees reuse old wax? Should I leave it there, or should > I just go ahead and melt it down? First, you likely should not be cutting & scraping unless the hive is so gummed up you cannot disassemble it, and even then only cut what has to be cut to get things apart and together again. The bees know what they are doing and seldom need any help from people. There are a few things you canb do from time to time -- such as treating for diseases, splitting, supering & wrapping -- that may assist them, but otherwise what people do to bees mainly tends to hold them back. Bees can only re-use wax that is inside the hive AFAIK. Leaving it lying around is an invitation to skunks and other nuisance animals, and the wax will stick to your feet on the next warm day, so bee tidy and clean your yard every time you leave it. > And does anyone know where I can find plans for a wiring jig and > instructions on how to wire frames? I've got 40 frames to wire, and none > of the proper tools to get them tight enough. Wiring frames is pretty well obsolete now, but you can get the supplies and instructions to do it at any bee supply house. allen ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 12:04:22 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: stings In-Reply-To: <199905151708.NAA00469@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > you can reverse your immunity to bee stings by taking too strong a dose = > or too many anti-inflammatory drugs. These include ibuprofen, = > fenoprofen, naproxen, ketoprofen, sulindac, piroxicam, suprofen and = > tolmetin. This happened to my wife. This has been discussed earlier on this list and is well worth knowing about. Apparently this effect, although strongly suspected by beekeepers, is undocumented by the medical establishment and so far the evidence is anecdotal. The other interesting thing is that some reports indictate that the effect may be temporary. allen ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 20:46:45 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: Aggression In-Reply-To: <199905130407.AAA10348@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi All/Ken Ken, you menioned my reply to your original post about bee aggression. In my reply I stated that one of the reasons I think people that work with European honeybees sometimes end up getting stung by these more peaceful bees, is that the smoker is not used correctly. With any african bees a smoker is essential, except maybe if one is popping supers on during a strong flow. One small puff of smoke to the entrance, and one in the top calms the bees - and makes them less likely to get upset, thus reducing damage to the hive. A hive lightly dulled with smoke continues working even if you have dismatnled the brood nest as no alarm pheremones are released. I have had bees return from the field, walk around on the combs stacked next to the hive and offload pollen. If you distrub the hive (and they are induced to sting) they stop all foraging activity for up to four hours!! So, my original theory was that for EHB working without a smoker is probably ok on all days except when the bees are having a bad hair day - with AHB we always use the smoker - and know to use it more when the bees are having a bad hair day because they tell us in advance!! So sorry to have put my message accross wrong the first time. Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis 6139 South Africa Time = Honey ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 21:01:59 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: Scouts, swarms and bee routes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi All I have heard of beekeepers in areas like Bulawayo (Zimbabw) and Durban (south Africa) who trap hundreds, to thousands of colonies a year. These guys use cities as trapping zones and recognize that bees seem to be drawn into urban areas from surounding bush, and follow certain routes through the suburbs. Catch batteries placed at good sites catch more swarms. (I have heard of up to 200 in a week in northern SA!! during swarming season) Large scale trappers tend to remove old colonies and place them in new boxes, then kit the old boxes out with frames and wax strips and leave them at strategic places - generally walls facing the rising sun, or on rooves that are sheltered from wind. Once commercial beekeeper in Durban traps over 1000 colonies a year in this fashion!! Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis 6139 South Africa Time = Honey ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 12:00:44 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Edwards Organization: Hayden Bee Lab, USDA-ARS,Tucson, Arizona Subject: Re: AHB? A possible solution MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Garth wrote: > Given that these bees are in contact with each other in africa, it > would follow that selective introduction of 'better' african > honeybees into places under threat of invasion by the less desireable > AHB would be wise. The populations of feral bees would then stabilise > naturally as they exist in the old world. > > The new bees would be resistant to A.tumida (small hive beetle) Good idea, and it has been advanced several times in the last 15 years or so, but the reaction and reluctance was (and is) overwhelming. It's like bring in hyenas to control the coyotes, etc., with unintended consequences. -- John ----------------------------------------------------------- John F. Edwards Carl Hayden Bee Research Center 2000 E. Allen Road Tucson, Arizona 85719 32.27495 N 110.9402 W http://198.22.133.109/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 12:11:03 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Edwards Organization: Hayden Bee Lab, USDA-ARS,Tucson, Arizona Subject: Andy's Memorial MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We have heard late yesterday that the memorial service for our old buddy Andy Nachbaur will be held in Arivaca, Arizona (SW of Tucson) today. I heard that this was his boyhood home. Thought I'd let you know, in case you want to send some good thoughts to help him on his way. - Bee seeing you, Andy - John Edwards, Tucson ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 17:28:37 -0400 Reply-To: String & Linda Monteith Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: String & Linda Monteith Subject: Thank you Harry - My fellow BeeKeeper! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Beekeeping is the art of >looking after your bees ie trying to ensure that they are healthy and >happy. It has nothing to do with whether YOU get stung or whether YOU are >happy or unhappy. Many so called beekeepers today are actually honey >farmers who care very little about there bees, only how much honey/profit >they make at the end of the year! Harry, thank you for coming to my defense. I don't know whether I am a keeper or a haver, since I keep only one hive and that one is only for hobby, personal-use honey and beeswax candles. The one hive has lucky done very well for the past 3 years. I DO wear gloves and can not foresee a time when I won't. It's just my nature to be cautious. I was wrong in stating that we never get stung though. One of my sons did step on a bee while barefoot 2 years ago. No ill effects though. I wish Good Fortune to all Beekeeper, AND Bee-Havers. And hopefully all Bee-Havers will eventually progress to being caring Beekeepers. Linda ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 07:29:05 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: stings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I recall reading about the effect of ibuprofen in Science News (about two years ago), because I was taking it at the time and stopped after I read the article. For me, sensitivity to stings did not carry over as I sting myself on the shoulders every spring and fall for arthritis with no problems. And, yes, for me the stings do work on the arthritis. Wish they worked on bursitis. Bill T Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 08:20:27 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Valerie J L Spence Subject: mason bee question Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If I have a specific question relating to Mason Bees, can I ask it here? = If not, any idea where I can go to ask it?? I want to know if I live = in Massachusetts and want to put up a mason bee house, can I do that = without having an orchard? I do have flowers and a garden, and my = neighbors have many flowers also to keep them supplied in nectar, as = well as many cranberry bogs in the area (depending on how far they fly). = I am looking for a source for this information. Thanx for any help you = can give me. Val Spence Children show us our TRUE selves. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 07:43:50 -0700 Reply-To: jslavett@worldnet.att.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jeffrey Lavett Subject: Re: Black Bear Damage/NH MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here in the mountains of northern California, a critter has been gobbling my brood and honey. Three nights ago, something attacked five hives housing recent package installations. Boxes were tumbled off their bottom boards, frames splintered, and comb was licked down to the plastic substrate. In a few cases, the plastic was bitten through. After clearing away the mess and replacing new foundation, I stapled everything together and wrapped bungy cords all the way round the brood boxes. The next night, the critter returned, but only attacked two hives. These hives it knocked off their stands and managed to turn one of them upside down, although it couldn't get inside. I bought a live trap large enough for skunks and coons and baited it with Col. Sanders' best. I assume if it were a bear that it would have simply smashed the box instead of giving up on it. I'm also making sticker sticks to screw around the base of the bottom boards. GREGOIRE@endor.com wrote: > Spring is here in New Hampshire, which means that there is > a lot of animal movement after an always long winter. > How are the rest of you doing with apiary protection? > Ernie Gregoire > Canaan, NH. USA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 16:02:54 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Beeswax and Wiring Jig ???s MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/14/99 2:04:21 PM EST, amy@jetcity.com writes: > > I've been cleaning out swarm cells and bridge comb and stuff, and > tossing it on the ground, assuming that the bees would scavenge the wax and > use it in the hive. But mostly the wax is just sitting there. Do bees > reuse old wax? Should I leave it there, or should I just go ahead and melt > it down? > That is a good way to start the bees to robbing or to spread disease. Save it or bury it. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 11:57:43 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ana Lucia Merlo Subject: Re: stings Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I DO wear gloves and can not foresee a time >when I won't. It's just my nature to be cautious. I was wrong in stating >that we never get stung though. I have always worn thick rubber gloves, trousers and long sleeve t-shirt under my bee suit to avoid being stung. However, I do get stung! Sometimes over the gloves or on the shoulders over the suit when ( almost always)I sweat and my clothes get wet by perspiration. The reaction is different though. The local doesn't get swollen but redish, painful for 48 hours at least and some temperature on the skin. I had never thought it could be harmful in anyway but all this discussion on bee venom has awakened my curiosity. My question is. How much venom, can go through these two thick layer of clothing ? And how harmful it could be? Thank you. Ana Lucia- Living in a tropical country and keeping Africanized honey bees. __________________________________________________________________________ Ana Lucia Campos Merlo. Bee Biz - For the Commercial Beekeeper. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 20:41:07 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Sr. Monica Ryan" Subject: lAYING QUEENS 12 of them. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello to All Would somebody please be good enough to tell me how I can raise 12 laying queens; and What is the best way to prepare Nuclei so that two other 'hobbyist beekeepers' and myself can over-winter these queens? I will really be grateful for your answers. Thank you in advance. Sr. Catherine Duffy. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 15:47:12 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Bozard, Charles Emmett (Mick)" Subject: Re: Hive Beetles are now in Ohio MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain hi everybody, any updates on the ohio beetle or the south carolina package seller "blue ridge apiaries" ? > Hive Beetle In Ohio > Yes, hive beetles have arrived in Ohio. About 100 or so packages = > arrived, all from South Carolina, all from the same producer. > The infected packages that arrived in Ohio were sold by Blue Ridge = > apiaries, according to a news release put out by the Ohio Department of = > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 19:53:39 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Karen DeHond Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone know where I might find an old fashioned cone shaped hive to put in a herb garden? Want the hive to be decorative as well as functional. Karen DeHond ( a brand new bee keeper in New York State) have 10 conventional hives I'm taking over for an organic farm, am sure you'll be hearing from me again). ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 08:33:34 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Bee Stings Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello All This is my third year at beekeeping. Last year and this year I decided to work the hives largely without gloves. I carry a pair of gloves with me which I wear when the stinging gets too much. Sometimes I get as many as 30 to 40 stings in a session of examining hives, although it is sometimes difficult to judge the number of stings due I would imagine to the fact that my hands are in such pain, that after a certain point I do not feel the extra stings. Apart from the initial pain and some swelling, and a pair of hands which are pock marked with sting marks, I do not appear to suffer any ill effects. Certain parts of my hands such as the palm and the tips of my fingers cause me severe pain when stung, but the backs of my hands are not too painful. Some people - one a medical doctor who is also a beekeeper - have warned me that I am taking too many stings, others say that if I take about 1000mg of Vitamin C per day and then drink plenty of water after a hive handling session (both of which I do), that I will not come to any harm. I must add that I really believe that the bee venom is beneficial to me. I must also say that I get an excellent measure of the docility of a hive by working without gloves, some hives do not give me even one sting at times. Has anybody in the list any comments to make based on experience, which would be of assistance to me in determining if I should continue to expose myself to this level of stinging?. Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park, Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland Tel + 353 1 289 5269 Fax + 353 1 289 9940 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 10:51:37 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: Small Hive Beetle Comments: To: Barry Birkey In-Reply-To: <199905170110.BAA22328@madhatter.morelli.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi Barry > I was searching the net tonight and found this email of yours. I have what > appears to be the small hive beetle. I noticed these small beetles on the > inner cover last week in one of my hives. I took a few to my county > extension office and they in turn have sent them on to the university. The innner cover is a favourite place. > > Upon inspection under a low power microscope, these beetles look like the > photos I find off the internet to my untrained eye. Perhaps you could tell > me a little bit of their characteristics to see if they match. One thing I > noticed was these beetles can fly. I don't know how far but I did see a few > of them take to flight when I was trying to catch them. The new beatles are a red colour and slowly change to a dark balck colour. They are a bit larger than a match head and fit snugly inside a worker cell. They will fly, and use this method to distribute themselves between hives. They will also fly with a swarm, and it is not uncommon to catch a swarm with a beetle or two in it. The larvae are 'maggot like' and here one is most likely to find them in untended pollen stores. > Dark brown to black in color about 1/4" long. As of yet, I have not seen > any down in the brood frames. Is this where one would normally find them or > do they like the inner covers more? I hope to know for sure this week if > this is what I'm dealing with. They are corner dwellers, and tend to only go to the brood areas if the bees don't guard them. In Hepburn and Radloffs Honeybees of Africa, 1998 (Springer) they document a case where they saw A.m.scutellata ringing the beetles and sealing them in propolis. People in the US with whom I have spoken have told me their bees do not do this. Here the most common place to find beetles is in the top supers, and in cracks. You will also sometimes see them scuttying around the bottom boards on weak hives. Preventative measures you may wish to take will include keeping hive beetle numbers down. Avoid having beetle magnifying factors around, like pollen and brood which does not have bees to guard it. Is this the first possible record for Illinois? Hope this helps Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis 6139 South Africa Time = Honey ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 06:45:08 -0400 Reply-To: slnewc@alltel.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Steve Newcomb Subject: Re: Scout bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Of the last 6 swarms I have captured, four were in pine or hemlock trees, and they were wrapped around the trunk. The other 2 were in hardwood trees, and were hanging from a branch. Other members of our association have reported similar stories. Makes me wonder......... Steve Newcomb ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 16:43:07 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Annette Crowe Subject: BEES Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don't know if you can help me but I'm writing to you about bees. I live in Mass and I'm having a bee problem I'm not sure if there bumble bees or honey bees. But there gathering in the eves of my house. I have used raid and other insectisides but it dosen't seem to bother them. can you email me and let me know how to find out if I have a nest up in my attic and how to cure it. I would gladly appriciate it if you could let me know. My email address is crowey@mediaone.net thank you ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 08:48:44 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris In-Reply-To: <199905171114.HAA20307@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Karen DeHond ( a brand new bee keeper in New York State) asks: > Does anyone know where I might find an old fashioned cone shaped hive to > put in a herb garden? I'm not sure if it's Brushy Mountain or Mann Lake who has "skeps" in their catalog. However, keeping bees in skeps is illegal in New York state as the frames are not moveable and hence cannot be inspected for disease. Aaron Morris - thinking Langstroth rules! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 09:00:02 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: lAYING QUEENS 12 of them. In-Reply-To: <199905171114.HAA20256@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sr. Catherine Duffy asks: > Would somebody please be good enough to tell me how I can raise 12 > laying queens This is such a broad question that I would not even attempt an answer. My recommendation would be to get a book on the topic. _Raising_Queen_Bees_ by Roger morse, _Contemporary_Queen_Rearing_ by Harry Laidlaw was edited and reprinted last year by Laidlaw and Paige - the title changed a bit, _Breeding_Super_Bees_ by Steve Tabor, and for a simpler versior of queen rearing see the raising queens section of _Honey_in_the_Comb_ by Eugene Killion. > ... the best way to prepare Nuclei to over-winter these queens? Again a very broad question. Prepare the nucs early enough to assure they have strong populations going into winter, ample stores, perhaps put them atop Snelgrove boards over established colonies, wrap 'em. You gave no location, so this may not be the best advice for your location. Again, for such broad based questions I recommend hitting the books, not the list. Or contact a local mentor or association in your area. Aaron Morris - thinking you can't beat a good book! > I will really be grateful for your answers. Thank you in advance. > Sr. Catherine Duffy. > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 07:44:02 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Thom Bradley MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The proper name of the hive you are referring, is called a skep and is no longer legal for use to keep bees. The design makes it impossible to remove bees or frames to examine for disease. Thom Bradley Chesapeake, VA Karen DeHond wrote: > Does anyone know where I might find an old fashioned cone shaped hive to > put in a herb garden? Want the hive to be decorative as well as > functional. > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 09:07:15 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Joe Rollins Subject: Re: Bee Stings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The American Apitherapy Society can be contacted at apither@beenet.pp.s It will tell you the benefits of bee stings. I have been using apitherapy for about 3 years, and have cured arthritis, burthisis, and even skin cancer(kerotis). Joe Rollins SW Mississippi ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 07:55:38 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Bee Stings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/17/99 6:17:29 AM EST, cssl@iol.ie writes: > Has anybody in the list any comments to make based on experience, which > would be of assistance to me in determining if I should continue to expose > myself to this level of stinging?. > > Sincerely > I use the leval of stinging to determine if I would like to requeen my hive. If I get stung 20-30 times and I am not being rough or clumsy and the weather is passable then the old queen gets replaced. (maybe sooner than 20 stings) I do have a spot that is relatively more rural than most of my hives to let them be if they are really producing but I don't even want the drones from a mean hive around. Keeping bees in town requires that you take a little extra care and what might be acceptable in a rural setting won't cut it 100' from the neighbor. I too am curious does the number of stings you take influence whether you develop a sensitivity later on? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 07:20:52 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Bee Stings In-Reply-To: <199905171114.HAA20337@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Sometimes I get as many as 30 to 40 stings in a session of > examining hives... > Has anybody in the list any comments to make based on experience, which > would be of assistance to me in determining if I should continue to expose > myself to this level of stinging?. I ain't no MD, but I get at least as many stings on the hands and wrists as you mention many days, sometimes more, sometimes less and I'm still kicking after a quarter century of it. Something to consider is that the stings we take on the hands and wrists are not usually nearly as strong as the ones that a person takes sometimes in other places. Oftentimes these stings are not fully driven home and are also rubbed or scraped off immediately. I think that a hundred or so real serious stings into soft flesh would be enough for anyone, I had over 100 through the suit one day when I was working some particularly nasty pale yellow New Zealand bees I bought one year. My daughter had forgotten the smoker and we drove the twenty miles before that fact was discovered. I wasn't going home without the comb honey, and paid the price. No ill effects, though. allen ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 09:18:19 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Joe Rollins Subject: Re: Bee Stings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry but the website for the American Apitherapy Society I gave is wrong. It is www.apitherapy.org Joe Rollins SW Mississippi ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 07:43:34 -0600 Reply-To: fltdeck1@ix.netcom.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Matthew Subject: Re: stings - a neoprene solution MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In removing feral hives you can imagine that you might see bees at their worst temper. Since the proper removal requires quite a bit of semi-precise cutting to save the old brood, heavy gloves of any kind will simply get in the way of an effective and efficient job. Sticking bare hands three feet into 'darkness' is just asking for multiple stings. The 'twitchy' nervous apprehension a beekeeper will likely feel after the first few stings under their fingernail will probably give them dozens more. The solution for me was common neoprene dish-like gloves (little thicker, commonly found at hardware stores). They fit to the fingers well, provide a firm grip for knives and such and the bees usually disregard the rubber. Instead the bees seek out my veil or suit for defensive stinging, which is where I prefer them to 'charge'. I've found the Bees can sting through these gloves but it's on a extremely rare occasion and usually provides a sort of "half-sting" where the stinger remains implanted in the rubber. Try them, you'll like them. Matthew Westall - // Earthling Bees >8(())))- "Take me to your feeder" \\ Castle Rock, CO, USA Ana Lucia Merlo wrote: > I DO wear gloves and can not foresee a time > >when I won't. It's just my nature to be cautious. I was wrong in > stating > >that we never get stung though. > > I have always worn thick rubber gloves, trousers and long sleeve > t-shirt > u ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 10:08:16 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Bee Stings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I work my hives both with gloves and barehanded, so I am not an expert on bare handed working of hives. But when I work them bare handed, before I light my smoker, I "wash my hands" in the burnt pine needles, so get fragrantly smoked hands. Seems to work in reducing the number of bees alighting on my hands while I work them. Bill T bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 10:59:49 -0400 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Organization: ACB Dept., Univ of Michigan Subject: Re: Bee Stings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Computer Software Solutions Ltd wrote: > Sometimes I get as many as 30 to 40 stings in a session of examining hives, > although it is sometimes difficult to judge the number of stings due I would > imagine to the fact that my hands are in such pain, that after a certain > point I do not feel the extra stings.... > I must also say that I get an excellent measure of the docility of a hive by > working without gloves, some hives do not give me even one sting at times. You don't say how many hives you usually work in a session. When I requeen, I usually look through 10 to 20 hives a day, and I might get up to a total of about 20 stings. If I get more, I make sure that the particular nasty hive in question gets requeened totally. If the hive is normal, I don't get a sting, except the odd accidental one. Like you, I hate to work with gloves, and will only go to them in a dire emergency. What I really don't like, however, is when a colony is extremely flighty, bees bumping into the veil continually. Then often a couple get inside the veil somehow, and I don't notice until one flies into my face. Stings on the hand and wrist are OK, but those on the head and neck are not fun (expecially those on the lip or in the mouth). When I get into one of those colonies (usually very rare) I secure my veil again, go back and kill he queen immediately and requeen or combine with a gentle colony. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 10:31:30 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Blane White Subject: Re: Spouse's allergy Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII ****************************************** Blane White MN Dept of Agriculture >>> Bill Truesdell 05/14/99 04:15PM >>> Blaine, Did they giive a reason why family members had a higher risk? Comes back to changing the bee suit in the house as the only one my friend can figure out. Hi Bill and everyone, Sorry, I forgot to include the reason or current thinking for the reaction in family members of beekeepers. They are exposed to venom ( usually dried ) on clothing etc and breath it in. There seems to be an important difference due to mode of exposure - injection ( stings ) tend to lead to desentization while breathing in the venom tends to lead to allleryg. This is the reason that I wash my own beekeeping clothing and it is washed seperatly from the rest of the laundry. The family members at greatest risk are those who never work the bees and therefore are very rarely stung but do breath the dried venom. Hope this helps. blane ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 17:35:30 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bernard Heymans Subject: multiple queen in a box Comments: To: allend@internode.net, BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Comments: cc: bheymans@post.eu.informix.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
Hi,


In fact I just read this weekend a line about this...
Its seems a russian tried in 1947(?) to use multiple queen boxes (24 DADANT frames or more + suppers)

The actual reciept he was using is :

Take 4-8 queens with no additional bee ( They should be laying for more than one year)
Cut their wings
Prepare a HUGE BOX
Fill it with brood frames with no additioonal bee : NO ONE SINGLE BORN BEE SHOULD BE IN IT...
Place the QUEENS in the box
Close the box

The queens will start to fight... but having no wings, they can't kill each other...
They will fall on the ground...
The new born bees will make no difference between the multiple queens...
It could even occure that there will be some supersedure cells produiced... but there is no swarming.
(good new a supercedure cell mean that the stuff worked at least for a time)
I 'ld love to test.

PROBLEM : where will I find thoses 4-8 more than a year old  queens?
QUESTION: did anybody read anything about this method? by chance anybody tried?

Bernard.

NOTE: it's not usual to have several


Date:         Tue, 2 Dec 1997 08:11:29 -0600
Reply-To:     allend@internode.net
Sender:       Discussion of Bee Biology <BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU>
Comments:     Authenticated sender is <allend@mail.internode.net>
From:         Allen Dick <allend@internode.net>
Subject:      Multiple Queens in a Hive
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

The following was posted in May.  In light of the discussion about Cape
bees, I wonder if anyone has any insights?
---

Date:          Thu, 22 May 1997 04:40:47 -0500
> On the question of what happens when bad weather strikes, when a hive is
> in swarm mode the bees start a succession of queen cells, maturing at
> different times, to cover this possibility.  The impulse to issue as the
> swarm is triggered usually the day before the first queen hatches and
> this queen duly destroys all her unhatched siblings.

It is hard to lay down hard and fast rules.

A hive with many virgin queens running around freely is not unusual.
Sometimes they will refuse to fight even if removed and placed together on
your hand or in a jar.

Swarms often contain numerous queens.

If only we could get honey bees to develop the routine acceptance of
multiple queens on a continuous and predictable basis without mechanical
separation by excluders, we would simplify beekeeping and have large hives
that do not fail due to the mortal nature of one queen.

Fire ants apparently developed this characteristic in recent times.

Allen
.        -              Bernard Heymans
.       "  `            Mailto: Bernard.Heymans@advalvas.be
.       "   `          
.   _- -_`-_|'\  /`    
. _/ / / -' `~()()     
.  \_\ _ /\-._/\/      
.       /   | |        
.      '`   ^ ^        
.                      
./////////////////   

. In a world without fences and borders, why do we need gates and windows? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 11:13:01 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Bee Stings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/17/99 9:18:49 AM EST, mister-t@clinic.net writes: > But when I work them bare > handed, before I light my smoker, I "wash my hands" in the burnt > pine needles, so get fragrantly smoked hands. Seems to work in > reducing the number of bees alighting on my hands while I work > them. Good practice in my opinion Good practice to also smoke any area that got stung-lessens the alarm scent and maybe prevents a 2nd sting on the same area. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 07:18:30 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "J.F. Hensler" Subject: Re: bee skep MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Karen DeHond wrote: > Does anyone know where I might find an old fashioned cone shaped hive to > put in a herb garden? Want the hive to be decorative as well as * functional. If "functional" doesn't necessarily mean a home for bees, check some of the upscale garden catalogs. Last season I remember one being offered in ceramic form that did double duty as ornament and a nifty place to store small garden tools (scissors, tags, etc.) Christy Hensler Skip & Christy Hensler THE ROCK GARDEN Newport, WA http://www.povn.com/rock/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 12:52:26 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Hough, Rick S." Subject: Re: old fashioned cone shaped hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Karen asked about finding "an old fashioned cone shaped hive", and wanting it to be functional. These are called skeps, and in many locations it is illegal to keep honeybees in skeps. The reason is that the honeycomb in a skep is not removable, and therefor it is impossible to inspect the colony for disease. So, I would strongly encourage you to NOT attempt to keep bees in a decorative skep. Many skeps being sold these days are not attractive to bees anyhow, as they are not the "right" size for an active colony. Rick Hough, rshough@tasc.com keeping bees a bit northeast of Boston, MA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 10:06:12 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: amy thomson Subject: Re: Mason bees In-Reply-To: <199905171452.HAA14452@jetcity.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I want to know if I live in Massachusetts and want to put up a mason bee >house, can I >do that without having an orchard? Mason bees will do just fine without an orchard. Remember an orchard is only in bloom for a few weeks out of the year, and the bees must have other nectar and pollen sources to survive for the rest of the year. Your bees will do just fine. They will emerge earlier if you put them on a sunny, south-facing wall. Amy Thomson ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 11:19:22 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Zee Byrd Subject: Pierco foundation/crimp wire (wax) foundation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello - Can someone tell me what temperature extremes Pierco (plastic foundation) installed in wooden frames without drawn comb can endure in storage? What is the best way of storing crimp wire (wax)foundation withOUT drawn comb, installed in wooden frames AND be able to keep mice away? I currently have them in an outside shed, but want to move them inside, unless there is a way to keep them in the shed withOUT the mice disturbing them. My indoor storage is an attic which gets warm in the summer, which is why I am currently keeping them in a cool, dark shed. My computer room can only store so much beekeeping equipment. Thank you in advance for your reply. _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 19:37:10 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Harry Goudie Subject: Re: Skeps Comments: cc: kdehond@netacc.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Does anyone know where I might find an old fashioned cone shaped hive to >put in a herb garden? Want the hive to be decorative as well as >functional. > Hi Karen, There are still a few skeps about here in Scotland although I am not sure if you can buy a ready made one. You can make them easily yourself which can be quite enjoyable. Upside down they make a good cat bed! I have two cats who live in an upside down skep in the porch. Once you get into the hang of making them you can make them with removable frames as in top bar hives with a sort of "hat" on the top. In this way you will get round the regulations. Harry ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 07:57:16 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: amy thomson Subject: Re: Skep hives Comments: cc: kdehond@netacc.net In-Reply-To: <199905171114.HAA20313@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Does anyone know where I might find an old fashioned cone shaped hive to >put in a herb garden? Want the hive to be decorative as well as >functional. > >Karen DeHond ( a brand new bee keeper in New York State) have 10 >conventional hives I'm taking over for an organic farm, am sure you'll be >hearing from me again). Bee skeps are pretty, but I wouldn't recommend keeping bees in them. In order to harvest the honey from a skep hive, you need to destroy the entire hive, killing all the bees inside it. You'll get more and better honey from a conventional, if boxy, Langstroth hive. Get a bee skep and put it in your garden to look at, but don't let the bees set up housekeeping in it! Amy Thomson ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 17:27:16 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: eabell Subject: wiring frames MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit No plans but I have wired thousands and this is what I found to be the secret. You can make most any kind of device you wish but it must bend the side bars inward. I used a cam arrangement. Now wire your fames - you need not even be tight for when the cam is released and the sides spring back it will be tight. It is easy to get the wire so tight that the sides remain bowed in. Good luck. amy thomson wrote: > And does anyone know where I can find plans for a wiring jig and > instructions on how to wire frames? I've got 40 frames to wire, and none > of the proper tools to get them tight enough. -- Eric & Marnie Abell Box 87 Gibbons, AB T0A 1N0 Canada Phone/fax (780) 998 3143 eabell@compusmart.ab.ca ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 20:58:07 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dave Pehling Subject: Re: mason bee question In-Reply-To: <199905161307.JAA08462@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi all, In response to the question about mason bees.... Our WSU publication on OMB is at http://gardening.wsu.edu/library/inse006/inse006.htm Mason bees do very well with most spring-blooming plants. All the adults are usually dead by the end of June or before so they are not quite as much fun as honeybees. On the other hand, if you only need insects for pollenation, OMB's are good for many spring-blooming crops. Cheers, Dave Pehling ============================================ | W.S.U. COOPERATIVE EXTENSION-SNOHOMISH CO. | | 600 128TH ST. S.E. | | EVERETT, WA. 98208 U.S.A. | | PHONE - (425)338-2400 | | FAX - (425)338-3994 | | EMAIL pehling@wsu.edu | ============================================ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 05:27:46 +1200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Organization: Bay of Plenty Polytechnic Subject: Re: wiring frames > > And does anyone know where I can find plans for a wiring jig > > and instructions on how to wire frames? I've got 40 frames to wire, > > and none of the proper tools to get them tight enough. A neat gadget that I found very useful is a wire crimper. It is a set of two toothed wheels that can clamp over the wire and then drag along. It has the effect of creating a regular series of crimps that don't appreciably weaken the wire, but make it, effectively, shorter. So therefore tighter! I don't use it so much when wiring new frames, but it is most useful for reusing frames when the wiring has sagged after melting out wax, etc. Eric's comments on the use of a wiring board (such as the type with a cam arrangement) are very true - they are easy to use and create good tight wires... (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- home nickw@beekeeping.co.nz (/ work nick.wallingford@boppoly.ac.nz NZ Beekeeping http://www.beekeeping.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 09:53:42 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mike Pheysey Organization: Hewlett-Packard Subject: Old fashioned hive alternative Comments: To: Bee-L Comments: cc: Karen DeHond Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Karen DeHond wrote: > Does anyone know where I might find an old fashioned cone shaped hive to > put in a herb garden? Want the hive to be decorative as well as > functional. The late UK television gardening presenter, Geoff Hamilton, suggested making WBC shaped "hives" (just the outer lifts) as a decorative feature in a garden - using them either as compost bins or tool storage. As they are generally considered (in the UK at least) the classical bee hive shape by "joe public", they compliment any garden. ____ /____\ W.B.C. (William Broughton Carr) /____\ brood chamber: 10 frames of 13.5"x8" /____\ | | You could use them as a true bee hive (they have removable frames), compost bin or tool storage, the choice is yours. -- Just an idea, cheers, Mike. mikeph@bri.hp.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 05:51:45 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "C. Crowell" Subject: Re: wiring frames MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Where can one find drawings of the "cam type" of wiring boards? Using pliers very carefully I get my wires tight enough but the idea of the cam intrigues me, particularly for brood frames where the end bars are longer and can be compressed easily. I like to wire the frames because the wire serves to locate the foundation more accurately in the center of the frame, resulting in more uniform comb. I like working with the wax and the wood, enjoy the smell of them, and using the electric "embedder". Plastic may be easier, but it just wouldn't be the same. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 15:10:43 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Spouse's allergy In-Reply-To: <199905171608.MAA27094@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > The family members at greatest risk are those who never work the bees and > therefore are very rarely stung but do breath the dried venom. This is a good reason to make sure the whole family participates in the bee work :) allen ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 07:34:23 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: eabell Subject: Re: wiring frames MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Where can one find drawings of the "cam type" of wiring boards? Let me try to describe a simple cam. From plywood cut a piece with the shape of a comma. The circular 'head' of the comma may be about 2.5 inches in diameter. The 'tail' is the handle. Now drill a hole in the circular part of your comma. Be certain that the hold is offset towards the tail side.. Attach the 'coma' to your wiring board with a bolt with another bolt acting as the 'stop' for the other end of the frame. When the 'tail' is up the frame sides will be bend inwards, lower the 'tail' and the frame is released. -- Eric & Marnie Abell Box 87 Gibbons, AB T0A 1N0 Canada Phone/fax (780) 998 3143 eabell@compusmart.ab.ca ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 08:45:51 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Van Roekel Subject: Re: wiring frames In-Reply-To: <199905181033.GAA12079@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >very carefully I get my wires tight enough but the idea of the cam intrigues >me, particularly for brood frames where the end bars are longer and can be >compressed easily. I do not have plans, but for a quick fix, try this. Use a scrap of 1x2, put your wire through the holes, fastening one end, then hold the frame on its end perpendicular to the 1x2, so that when you push down on the other end bar, both end bars bend inward. Then fasten the wire ( while the end bars are bowed in). When you release the pressure on the end bars, they will tend to go back to their original position, pulling the wire taut. > I like working with the wax and the wood, enjoy the smell of them, and >using the electric "embedder". Plastic may be easier, but it just wouldn't >be the same. You will get no argument from me! Is there anything that smells as good as wax foundation and fresh wood?? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 07:54:01 -0600 Reply-To: darn@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: darn@FREENET.EDMONTON.AB.CA Subject: Re: wiring frames In-Reply-To: <199905181033.GAA12079@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII My wiring frame is even simpler than Eric Abell's. It consists of a 2x4 with a 3/4" hole. A lag screw is put in a little less than the the length of a frame from the hole. A 3/4" dowel is set in the hole. In use, one end bar is placed against the head of the lag screw and the other end bar is forced down against the dowel. The frame ends are bent, as in Eric's device and when removed they spring out and tension the wire. I found it good to put a slotted piece of hardwood under the lagscrew so that I could adjust the tension. I have wired about 5000 frames using this device and hated every minute of it. I now use plastic foundation. Best regards, Donald Aitken Edmonton Alberta Canada ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 07:30:34 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jean-Francois Lariviere Subject: Re: stings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All this discussion about bee venom on clothing needs clarification. The concern is with the person(s) handling the bee clothing after you work in the bee yard. It is recommended that bee clothing be washed separately from the rest of the household clothing. What has occurred is the person doing the laundry, who isn't exposed to bee stings like a beekeeper, develops a hyper-sensitivity to bee venom. This is because of the trace amounts of venom which become impregnated in the clothing. The alternative is to have the person handling the laundry to also be in the bee yard getting stung. This is not as appealing to most people, so rubber gloves would be a good idea for this person. As for getting stings, an earlier comment was made on not using gloves and receiving the 30 stings at a visit. I currently do the same thing no gloves or veil unless I discover very upset bees, then I put on my veil. I work with many people who deliberately sting themselves 30 times 3X a week to treat their Arthritis & Multiple Sclerosis. One of the requirements is to take at least 3,000 mg of Vitamin C every day to help the body produce Cortisol, naturally produced when Vit. C is present. This is known as Bee Venom Therapy and you can gain further information by contacting the American Apitherapy Society http://www.beesting.com/mainpage.html Jean-Francois Lariviere http://hometown.aol.com/BeeHealthy/beehive.htm << My question is. How much venom, can go through these two thick layer of clothing ? And how harmful it could be? >> ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 08:09:14 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: tomas mozer Subject: Re: AHB some are still looking...and finding: The Florida Times-Union Thursday, May 6, 1999 Story last updated at 10:56 a.m. on Wednesday, May 5, 1999 Killer bees trapped at port Unwelcome arrivals pose no threat By Chris Scribner Times-Union business writer Several thousand African bees were caught and destroyed in Jacksonville last month, state agricultural officials said yesterday. African bees, commonly called killer bees, are more aggressive and temperamental than their domestic counterparts, but officials think they have captured them all. The potentially harmful bees were found April 23 in two traps at the Jacksonville Port Authority's Blount Island terminal. On Monday, agricultural inspectors brought a third trap from the Northside terminal to their Gainesville lab, but the hive included no African bees, said Laurence Cutts, the state's chief apiary inspector. While swarms of African bees can be a danger to people, a handful of them should not cause any problems, a University of Florida professor said. ''Just having a few bees flying around is nothing,'' said Tom Sanford, a beekeeping specialist at the university's Institute of Food and Agricultural Sciences. An established swarm of African bees, which can include about 10,000 to 20,000 bees, can be dangerous because if provoked, hundreds of bees together will attack people and animals. The bees, which are not more poisonous than domestic - or European - bees, have been known to chase people for up to half a mile, said Glenn Hague, African bee technician for the state's Division of Plant Industry, who on Monday completed DNA analysis on 50 of the bees. In the United States, five people - all of them elderly and with limited mobility - have been killed by bee stings since 1990, according to newspaper reports. This was the third time in the past decade that African bees have been found at the Jacksonville port, said Cutts, adding that the bees likely traveled here aboard a container ship from Puerto Rico, which has an established population. There is no known African bee population in Florida, although swarms have been discovered 17 times since 1983, when they first were found in the port of Miami, said Cutts. African bees migrated into the United States from Mexico in 1990 and they are now in Texas, Arizona, New Mexico and California, said Sanford, a professor in Florida's department of entomology and nemotology. So far, the bees have not traveled eastward from Texas. ''The chances of them establishing a population of bees in Jacksonville is remote,'' he said. The bees ''haven't migrated to Florida. The only ones we've found have been hitchhikers off boats,'' said Hague. The Blount Island discovery marks the first time that bees have been caught in the agricultural department's traps - or bait hives as they are called by the bee inspectors. Previous swarms have been reported by ships' crews or dockworkers, said Cutts. The hives have been used since 1985 and are checked every three weeks. Located most often at ports and along the interstates, there are 500 bait hives in the state, including 27 in Duval County. ''We try to intercept the bees that come in'' to the state, said Hague. This week the inspectors will put another 24 hives - which look like oversize papier-mache flower pots and are filled with a pheromone that attracts bees - on the JPA terminals. The University of Florida Pest Alert WWW site at: http://extlab7.entnem.ufl.edu/PestAlert/ 05/06/99 - So Called "Killer Bees" found in Jacksonville Florida Port No Evidence of Permanent Florida Population of African Honey Bees Yet Found A press release by the Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services (FDACS) dated May 5, 1999 announced detection and destruction of two swarms of African honey bees found near the port of Blount Island in Jacksonville. Both were found in bait hives placed by FDACS for intercepting these kinds of honey bees that might come off ships. The bait hives were located in a container yard holding cargo shipped from Puerto Rico, which has an established African honey bee population. An additional 24 bait hives will be placed throughout the port and follow up inspections are scheduled to determine if other colonies exist. This detection marks the first time in Florida that African bee swarms have been detected in bait hives. Previous swarms have been reported by ship s crews or dockworkers, who have been alerted to look for bees by state, USDA and customs officials. Swarms have been found 17 other times since 1983. African bees are sometimes called "killer bees," according to the press release, for their aggressive defense of their hives. The "killer" term comes from their reputation in many tropical areas, where these defensive insects have been responsible for deaths of animals and people. This has been picked up by various media and spread liberally around the state and nation over the years. Use of the term, unfortunately, may skew the public's opinion and concern about this particular detection of these insects. This could lead to unjustified and unwarranted worries and actions based on the sensationalism of the "killer" label. The detection of African (often called "Africanized,"or simply "AHB") honey bees in bait hives does not mean there is an established population in Florida. There is no evidence of this yet in the Jacksonville area or other parts of the state where bees from undetermined origin were found on ships. One should be very skeptical of calls or information suggesting anyone in Florida is encountering or being threatened by "killer" bees. "Killer" bees are a different variant of the common honey bee, extremely difficult to distinguish from other honey bees commonly found in the state. They are capable of mass attacks, but only near a nest. All honey bees of any kind should be approached with caution and any nests assiduously avoided. If honey bees attack, those affected should get inside houses, automobiles, and other enclosed spaces that bees cannot enter. Any stinging incident, no matter the type of honey bee, must be considered serious particularly if multiple insects attack. A physician should be contacted immediately for either allergic reactions (trouble breathing) from a single sting or mass envenomation resulting from multiple stings. For more general information on these insects, see : http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/scripts/htmlgen.exe?DOCUMENT_MG113 For a more in depth and historical treatment see the APIS web site index on the Africanized honey bee: http://www.ifas.ufl.edu/~mts/apishtm/threads/ahb.htm Tom Sanford Extension Apiculturist Publisher of APIS http://www.ifas.ufl.edu/~mts/apishtm/apis.htm Department of Entomology and Nematology University of Florida Mts@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu 352-392-1801 x 143 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 07:34:51 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Karen DeHond Subject: Bee Skeps MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank you all, LOVE this list, Will track down a skep and use it for compost, it'll still be attractive in the herb garden Karen DeHond ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 17:47:05 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mike Rowbottom Subject: Beekeeping Courses in Harrogate, UK MIME-Version: 1.0 Harrogate and Ripon Beekeepers Association are running two Beekeeping courses in the UK in the Summer of 1999: 1) Eight Week Hands-on Practical Course. This course is aimed at complete beginners or beekeepers with limited experience. The course will provide hands-on experience of working with bees, under experienced and qualified supervision. At the end of the course the course members will be supplied with a small nucleus colony of bees. The course will commence on Monday 7th June 1999, and is based at the Association Apiary located close to Harrogate, North Yorkshire in the UK. The fee for this course is 25 UK pounds. 2) Weekend Beekeeping Course This is a two day course covering theoretical and practical aspects of Beekeeping. It is aimed at beginners, and at people who would like to gain some hands-on experience before committing themselves to beekeeping as an activity. The course is to be held on Saturday 31st July and Sunday 1st August 1999. The location is as for the eight week course above. The cost of the course, including meals and a Barbeque on the Saturday evening is 30 UK pounds. Local accommodation can be arranged at modest cost. For further details about these courses please contact : John Annett Telephone 01423 872715 or Mike Rowbottom Telephone 01423 507236 e-mail mike@cognant.com -- Mike Rowbottom HARROGATE North Yorkshire UK ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 19:35:28 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tom Speight Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 16 May 1999 to 17 May 1999 (#1999-53) In-Reply-To: <199905180403.AAA09878@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <199905180403.AAA09878@listserv.albany.edu>, Automatic digest processor writes >Bee skeps are pretty, but I wouldn't recommend keeping bees in them. In >order to harvest the honey from a skep hive, you need to destroy the entire >hive, killing all the bees inside it. Not true. Bees can be *driven* out by turning the skep upside down, placing another empty skep above just touching at one point (like an open mouth), keeping them fastened with *irons* (quarter inch dia wire bent over at each end and sharpened to pentrate the straw - about 6 inches between bends). Drum on the side of the lower skep. The bees will march from one to the other, like watching a swarm enter a hive. -- Tom Speight ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 20:36:33 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Karen DeHond Subject: Cluster outside nucs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Am supposed to install my nucs tomorrow, 5/19, when I have help with the lifting, have had them since Fri 5//14. Today is the first hot day we've had and 3 of the nucs have large clusters of bees on the outside, Are they just cooling off or getting ready to swarm? AM BRAND NEW AT THIS. Supposed to have thunder storms tomorrow and am getting very nervous that I'll loose the bees if I have to wait much longer. Karen DeHond ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 20:01:14 -0700 Reply-To: ttownsen@telusplanet.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tim Townsend Organization: TPLR Honey Farms Subject: Re: Pierco foundation/crimp wire (wax) foundation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Zee Byrd wrote: > > Hello - > > Can someone tell me what temperature extremes Pierco > (plastic foundation) installed in wooden frames > without drawn comb can endure in storage? > > Zee: Pierco can withstand almost any extreme in normal outside temperature, cold will not bother it, and as long as it isn't esposed to direct sunlight it will stand 100+ F.quite easily. Best of Luck. Tim Townsend ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 19:42:27 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard E Leber Subject: Straw Skep MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sun, 16 May 1999 19:53:39 -0400 Karen DeHond writes: >Does anyone know where I might find an old fashioned cone shaped hive Karen, Make one yourself. That's the best thing about beekeeping as a hobby, the bottom line is NOT the measure of your success. Expand your interest in any direction just for the fun of it! You'll find a good set of instructions complete with photos for a skep along with over 300 other 'recipes' for items containing bees' wax and honey in "Super Formulas" ($14.95) by Elaine C. White available by 'snail mail'; Valley Hills Press 1864 Ridgeland Drive Starkville, Mississippi 39759 or telephone; 1-800-323-7102 Rick & Nancy Leber Beekeeping & Honey Production Since 1987 Mobile, 'Sweet Home Alabama' ricks.toy@juno.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 22:33:20 -0600 Reply-To: fltdeck1@ix.netcom.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Matthew Subject: Piping lone queen? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Today I opened up one of my hives and heard the distinct 'piping' from the hive. The Buckfast queen from last year was readily found but I couldn't find any other queens nor queen-cells. Would a queen start piping from a slight lingering smell from handling another queen? Or other possibilities? Thanks for your input, Matthew Westall // Earthling Bees >8(())))- "Take me to your feeder" \\ Castle Rock, CO, USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 23:42:12 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Steve Scott Subject: start-up problems Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Looking for help! My son and I have tried to start a new hive this spring. we ordered new = equipment and 2 lbs. of bees and a queen. Here's what happened: 1. we put the bees in the hive with new queen in the little cage. = after 3 days I checked and there had been no effort to get her out, so I = decided to help them by opening the screen a little and the queen flew = out. I didn't know if she went back in or not. 2. I waited several days to see what would happen. I didn't see any = action other than the bees were busy. I ordered a new queen. by the = time she got here it had been 3-4 weeks. When I opened the hive there = were lots of capped drone cells but no others. A local beekeeper said I = probably had an unfertilized queen or maybe a worker laying. this queen = was almost dead when I got her so the supplier sent me another one.=20 3. I put her in the hive in the cage and in a few days she was out of = the cage. a week later I checked and there were some cells in almost = all stages but not very many. 4 this is now a week later and I checked them again and there are just = a small number of capped normal cells in the lower area of a couple of = the middle frames. I had expected to see a much larger brood area than = this by now. there is still a good size number of bees after 6-8 weeks = of their arrival here. what's happening and what should I do to get this hive in gear? Thanks, = Steve ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 08:31:36 -0400 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Organization: ACB Dept., Univ of Michigan Subject: Re: Cluster outside nucs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Karen DeHond wrote: > Am supposed to install my nucs tomorrow, 5/19, when I have help with the > lifting, have had them since Fri 5//14. Today is the first hot day we've > had and 3 of the nucs have large clusters of bees on the outside, Are > they just cooling off or getting ready to swarm? If you bought these nucs already set up, they may have been started some time ago and existing brood is emerging, crowding the small space of a nuc, especially in hot weather. Even if you set them up yourself, you may have gotten too large a population, again crowding them too much for the heat. The bees are just doing what you might do on a hot day, sitting out on the front porch with your friends. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 14:08:05 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "L. Hansen" Subject: waggle dance movie? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Does anyone know of a short .avi og .mov-clip (or similar) showing the waggle dance? I have been searching the web without luck. Thanx, Lars in DK with 6 hives flying on dandylion like crazy today! Lars Hansen lh@get2net.dk (\ Edbee-zzzzzy---------- {||edB< (/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 08:21:46 -0400 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Organization: ACB Dept., Univ of Michigan Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 16 May 1999 to 17 May 1999 (#1999-53) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tom Speight wrote: > Bees can be *driven* out by turning the skep upside down, placing > another empty skep above just touching at one point (like an open > mouth), keeping them fastened with *irons* (quarter inch dia wire bent > over at each end and sharpened to pentrate the straw - about 6 inches > between bends). Drum on the side of the lower skep. The bees will march > from one to the other, like watching a swarm enter a hive. Have you seen them actually do this? The swarm analogy doesn't make sense to me in this case because here we have an intact colony with brood. In my experience with bees (although I admit no experience with skeps), bees will not abandon brood. Why would they do that in this set up? Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 08:35:51 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tim Sterrett Subject: Location, Location, Location! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A Gentle Reminder: (from southeastern Pennsylvania, USA) Please put a geographical location on Bee-L messages. We are fortunate to have contact on this list with bee people from a huge area of the world. I am properly hesitant to offer bee advice to people who live in different (wet, dry, high, low) areas of the world, even of the USA. If a posting is long, a geographical reference at the top of the message would be a big help. Tim -- Tim Sterrett sterrett@voicenet.com (southeastern) Pennsylvania, USA 40.0 N 75.5 W ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 09:07:05 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Cluster outside nucs Comments: To: tvf@umich.edu In-Reply-To: <199905191239.IAA01683@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Karen DeHond wrote: > > > ... 3 of the nucs have large clusters of bees on the outside, Are > > they just cooling off or getting ready to swarm? Ted Fischer responded: > ... crowding the small space of a nuc ... > The bees are just doing what you might do on a hot day, sitting out on the > front porch with your friends. I do not disagree with what Ted said, it may just be crowded and the bees may just be hanging out. However, with the very limited space in a nuc you are advised to install them in a full brood box ASAP! I had a 4 frame split put up on 4/15 swarm on 5/10 (the day I WAS going to install it in its full brood box). Aaron Morris - thinking don't delay, the bees have their own schedule! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 15:40:21 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Using Psion Organiser for Hive Recording Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello All I am looking at the possibility of using my Psion Organiser for recording hive examinations. To possibly save me reinventing the wheel, has anybody done any work in this regard. It strikes me that one of the strengths of this approach is that the Psion can be used to record the details of the visit which can then be uploaded into a PC and further analysis etc carried out using more sophisticated products such as Microsoft Access. Any feedback most welcome. Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park, Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland Tel + 353 1 289 5269 Fax + 353 1 289 9940 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 10:38:20 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Scott Moser Organization: MailCity (http://www.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Carniolans Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greatings all, I have been really studying the various races of bees that are available, and I realize that each have their supporters and detractors. I also know that there is not one race that is best for all circumstances and conditions. From everything I have gathered, it appears that the Carniolans could come really close to being the perfect race for Easten Missouri. First hand observation of them also leads me to believe that they are a good choice for this area. The biggest drawback is their tendency to swarm. Are their any breeders out there who are working towards reducing this drive to swarm? How successful have they been? Thanks for your help with this! Scott Moser Get your FREE Email at http://mailcity.lycos.com Get your PERSONALIZED START PAGE at http://my.lycos.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 18:06:46 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: SoVerNet Verification (on garnet.sover.net) Plindena from arc1a48.bf.sover.net [209.198.80.48] 209.198.80.48 Wed, 19 May 1999 18:08:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Charles Frederic Andros Subject: Re: Moser: Carniolans and swarming MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Scott Moser, Carniolans are no longer known for swarming. Sue Cobey does a good job of eliminating those genes in her New World Carniolan strain, and I’m sure others have done the same. Best regards, Charles Andros Linden Apiaries since 1973 Former NH/VT Apiary Inspector '78-’89 603-756-9056 Residence: Latitude: 43° 05’ North, Longitude: 72° 21’ 15" West, Elevation 1200’ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 18:36:12 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Karen DeHond Subject: Re: Cluster outside nucs/queens? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank you all, Installed bees this morning, if they were planning on swarming they hadn't done it yet. The nucs were started elsewhere and were VERY full. The 2 of us who did the installing are both beginners taking over 10 hives from last year which died over the winter. Neither of us was able to spot the queens so are praying we didn't hurt them, I have so many questions am almost ashamed to ask them all but: How will we know if there is no queen? I'll try your archives and try to keep my questions to a minimum. Amusing: My grandson age 6 yrs. asked if we found the queens. When I told him we were unable to recognize them he said "Gramma, they're the ones with crowns on. Karen DeHond Upstate New York ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 19:51:09 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: The window God Subject: manipulation or self distruction? Comments: To: bee-l@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I took a bee hive out of a building last week ,put them in a brood box with 3 frames of brood .the next evening they were back on the building in several swarms I determined that I destroyed the queen so I took another queen from another hive packed her into a cage and taped her to a wall under the larger swarm and finally got them all into the box happy.Now my question, can this old hive that the queen came from and the new hive that I caught with the old hives queen be combined without disrupting the scent? thanks for any thoughts on scents. Boy What A Mess, Troy C Permian Basin Beekeepers ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 23:02:02 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "C. Crowell" Subject: Re: Moser: Carniolans and swarming MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Might I ask where Ms. Cobey's strain of Carniolans are available? Also, how often is it recommended to re-queen this strain? I know of some who raise Buckfasts who feel obliged to re-queen annually, for example. Thanks / Curtis Crowell (Central New Jersey, USA) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 22:38:36 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Scott E. Brooks" Subject: Re: Midnight Bees Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Allen and all, Allen Wrote: > I have heard of such parent > lines that barely sustain themselves through a season, yet which add > something to the first cross which makes the cross very successful. The > offspring of such hybrids are seldom much good. If they are, it is only a > matter of luck. Let me first say that I am not a geneticist. I do have some limited understanding of breeding/hybridization in other species. It is very common for the first cross of two purebred animals to produce an offspring (or litter of them) whose performance excells that of their parents. This is commonly called "hybrid vigor." Your observation as to the quality of the second cross, the mating of those hybrids, is absolutely correct also. An example: when mating a Yorkshire hog (white) with a Hampshire (black with a white belt), the common result is called a "blue butt" which is white with a bluish patch on the rump, often with a mask also. But breed two "blue butts" together and the result is likely to be some who look like Hampshires, some who look like Yorkshires, and some who look like the parent Blue Butts. This is only color. other characteristics will be just as varied and may not necessarily attach themselves to the color. I.e. the second cross pig who looks like a Hampshire may not act nor grow out like a hampshire. Or try saving some seed from your favorite hybrid sweet corn and planting it the next year. The variety of corn plants resulting from those seeds from one plant will surprise you. I see no reason why these observations should not hold true for bees. In fact, considering the number of drones with which a queen must mate for good fertilization, the problem should be multiplied dramatically. When using hybrid bees, the best course would seem to be the same as in planting hybrid vegetables in the yearly garden: always by new seed because the old seed will not reproduce true. For what its worth, Scott E. Brooks Broken Bow, Oklahoma, USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 22:44:04 -0500 Reply-To: "David D. Scribner" Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David D. Scribner" Subject: Re: manipulation or self distruction? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Troy, Yes they can. I'm sure you'll get a varity of responses on how to combine two hives, but as you used the original queen from hive #1 to capture the queenless swarm and create hive #2, I would suggest the "newspaper method". It has worked well for me many times. Remove the cover off hive body #1 (now queenless) and lay a sheet of newspaper over it. Make a few small slits with the sharp end of your hive tool in the newspaper between a couple frames that are covered, and place the second hive body on top. Put on your inner and outer covers and you're done. I think your bees will take to each other fairly quickly. Usually, by the next day the bees have merged and you can see them carrying bits and pieces of newspaper out the entrance. The bees are one with one queen, and you'll have a stronger hive in the end. The newspaper seems to slow the merging down until the queen scent infiltrates both hive bodies of bees, preventing most all of the fighting. BTW, since you didn't leave your email address, would you email me? The reason is that I got my start in beekeeping in Midland back in '89. I bought my first hive (Buckfasts) from J.C. Brittingham, who was president of PBBA at the time (which we joined). I see Dean (his wife) is president now. Is J.C. doing well? How about the McIlroy's? Jim gave me a swarm that year, and together with a package of Starlines I hived, I had three colonies that year and remained "hooked" for life. We still think about them often... --David Scribner - Ballwin, MO, USA Niche on the Net! - >I took a bee hive out of a building last week ,put them in a brood box with >3 frames of brood .the next evening they were back on the building in >several swarms I determined that I destroyed the queen so I took another >queen from another hive packed her into a cage and taped her to a wall >under the larger swarm and finally got them all into the box happy.Now my >question, can this old hive that the queen came from and the new hive that >I caught with the old hives queen be combined without disrupting the scent? > thanks for any thoughts on scents. > Boy What A Mess, Troy C > Permian Basin Beekeepers > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 00:05:24 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: MatHig@AOL.COM Subject: shotgun swarm retrieval Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone have first hand experience using a shotgun to dislodge a swarm from high in a tree? A couple of old timers suggested it to me several years ago, but I have never tried it. But yesterday I found two large swarms about 30 ft up in trees, hanging on limbs that looked fairly strong, about 2-3 inches in diameter. And the trunks of the trees are covered with poison ivy vines, which gives me two good reasons not to go climbing after them (the first, of course, being the possibility of broken bones or worse). Is the objective to hit the branch and break it off behind the swarm? Or is the idea to shoot directly into the swarm, thereby causing them to lose their collective grips and fall, obviously sacrificing a few bees, hopefully not the queen? I assume in the first instance I would want concentrated large shot, like #4, full choke; if the idea is to directly hit the swarm, probably smaller more dispersed bird shot and light load would be better, right? Any advice will be appreciated, but please no debate about guns -- I am a responsible owner and outdoorsman. Matt Higdon mid Missouri, USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 23:20:29 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Madeleine Pym Subject: Re: driving skeps MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi one and all, Ted and Tom between them said: >> Drum on the side of the lower skep. The bees will march >> from one to the other, like watching a swarm enter a hive. > Have you seen them actually do this? =20 My father occasionally puts a (small) swarm into a skep for the summer = to build comb so that later he can use it to display the old style = method of beekeeping at talks, etc. When he wants to clear them he gives them a little smoke and then turns = it upside down in front of an empty hive (one brood chamber), sets it = between his knees at an angle and starts gently drumming on the sides. = It is slow and gentle like an old grandfather clock but half as slow = again - about every 1. 5 seconds. Slowly those bees will, and do, march = there way up into their new home. If you're looking hard you will see = the queen go in too. All you need apart from those things is a neat little stool for those = rickety knees and some patience. Can't think what he does about the brood that may still be there or the = stores, so if anyone wants to no more I'll ask and send the next = instalment. I can tell you that people love to see it but you have to = keep their mits out or they will squash the comb between their fingers = out of curiosity. They'll break bits off too given the chance.=20 Madeleine Pym, London, England ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 09:57:37 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Anthony N Morgan Organization: Sor-Trondelag College, Division of Electronic Engineering Subject: Re: Moser: Carniolans and swarming MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Charles Frederic Andros wrote: > Carniolans are no longer known for swarming. Sue Cobey does a good job of > eliminating those genes in her New World Carniolan strain..... European experience is that Carniolans are amenable to selective breeding for both gentleness and low swarming tendency. This has been achieved largely without the use of AI. Whether they are ideal for Eastern Missouri or not -- give them a try and let us all know! I have never had any other race so suitability to location/climate is not something I can comment on, except that those that ought to know (!?) state/write that as the Carniolans came originally from a mountain region they are more suited to colder, more northerly areas. However, it is frequently questioned as to whether the euro-Carniolans and the US-Carniolans are still genetically closely related -- anyone know? Cheers Tony -- Anthony N Morgan, Førsteammanuensis Institutt for Elektroteknikk Høgskolen i Sør-Trøndelag N-7004 Trondheim, Norway anthony@iet.hist.no Tlf. 73 55 96 04 Fax. 73 55 95 81 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 03:46:53 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Midnight Bees In-Reply-To: <199905200923.FAA16593@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > When using hybrid bees, the best course would seem to be > the same as in planting hybrid vegetables in the yearly > garden: always by new seed because the old seed will not > reproduce true. Nice post. Quite illustrative of the problems associated with having a hybrid that you cannot pen up in breeding season. To me it seems that, for most of us, there is no good reason to buy and use hybrids in the first place. The maintenance problems/risks with them do not justify the expense and hassle. Vegetables just sit there and are harvested and eaten annually. Seeds are cheap and it is no problem which seeds one plants. On the other hand, ideally, bees should be able to sustain themselves over years without *requiring* regular purchasing of outside stock and bothersome queen introductions (re-seeding?). Good non-hybrids will go on and on and often just get better if a few precautions are taken, and if the neighbourhood is not flooded with other undesirable bee stock. Even in that case, where purchasing queens might make sense, I don't know of a hybrid that can beat a good queen from non-hybridized stock. Having said that, I guess any time we buy queens from different suppliers, we are getting some degree of hybridization if they go on to reproduce. (Comments?). The Important Thing is that -- as I've experienced it -- the crossing between non-inbred bees does not seem to result in particularly striking changes in traits. Usually the offspring simply have an obvious and simple mix of the parents characteristics. What I can't figure is all the talk of mean offspring from Buckfasts. AFAIK, Buckfasts are not highly inbred or hybridized... What gives? allen ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 06:12:32 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Nathan Brown Subject: FGMO MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I read Dr. Rodriguez's paper on using food grade mineral oil as a control for mites. When he speaks of using FGMO he refers to it as white. Can someone tell me if he is talking about the clear kind that can be purchased at any grocery store. I had assumed this to be the correct oil because the bottle says that it can be taken orally to relieve constapation but, when I ran a thin bead of this oil on the top bars the bees responded very negatively. I thought they were going to abandon the hive! _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 09:16:33 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: William G Lord Subject: carniolan experience Comments: To: bee-l@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I have worked with Carniolians in Eastern Europe and last year in Turkmenistan, where the beekeepers did not use smokers or veils. In Eastern Europe we used loose veils and small smokers, but the bees had a wonderful temperament. I was so impressed I bought several dozen New World Carniolian queens last summer and requeened with them. They wintered well here in northern North Carolina but we have an early spring and the carniolians were honey bound and slow to take off. I know the Bulgarians go into the hive in the spring and take a cappings scratcher and scratch the capped honey adjacent to the brood and get the colony to eat and expand, but this is too labor intensive for me. We are in the last third of our honey flow right now and the jury will be in on the NWC's in about two weeks. I have liked what I have seen of them so far but they may be too slow out of the blocks in the spring for my climate. Bill Lord -- William G Lord Area Specialized Agent, Environmental Education E-Mail : wglord@franklin Internet: wglord@franklin.ces.ncsu.edu Phone : 919-496-3344 Fax : 919-496-0222 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 16:48:37 -0400 Reply-To: glen@writeme.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Glen B. Glater" Subject: frames needed I'm looking to replace all of my frames due to a bad winter of wax moth damage. I need 50 shallow and 10 medium frames with foundation, preferably prebuilt. Can someone suggest a supplier in the Boston (MA, USA) area? Also, recommendations for the treatment of frame boxes to make sure that remnants of the moths (eggs, lavae, pupa) are gone? Thank you. --glen glen@writeme.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 23:02:11 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Darrells Subject: Re: Bee Stings In-Reply-To: <199905171114.HAA20337@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear Tom & all: As you know, Tom, I do not normally wear gloves. Most of my hives can be worked on without indicating their annoyance in any way. I do, however, have mean hives who attack in numbers on the slightest provocation. Stings hurt!! I accept the odd sting as payment for a mistake made. I would not allow myself to receive 30-40 stings in a day. I have listed several techniques I use to limit the number of stings I receive: - Work on your bees on warm still days - Have your smoker going, but only use it if the bees show signs of resenting your intrusion, or you are going to do something that will disturb them (scraping burr comb off the top bars) - Do not look for the queen, but just signs of her activity ( eggs, small larvae, nice brood pattern) unless you are planning to split the hive or move frames of brood to another hive etc. - Be a wimp, work the mean hives last. - Use tobacco smoke on hives that don't like you. - Split only docile hives. (don't expand your problems) - Requeen mean hives with queens of known charisteristics. - If you come across the queen in your mean hive by luck or accident, treat her to a lesson in French history " Off With Her Head" I hope you will cut my methods to pieces, endorse them or add to the list. Bob Darrell RR#2 Caledon Ontario Canada L0N1C0 44N 80W ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 08:07:26 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Robert J. Cessac" Subject: Swarms Comments: To: MatHig@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Matt, I would not attempt to catch these swarms when they are that high in a tree. It is not worth the hospital bills. The best approach would be to put out bait hives to try to provide homes for any swarms. You could not get a 2-3 inch branch to break off that high up in a tree with a shotgun or rifle. Shooting into a swarm is not a good idea either. They would not leave that branch. Where in mid Missouri are you located. I am located about 9 miles north of Fayette, MO. Have you checked out our Mid Missouri BeeKeeping web page? www.beekeeper.missouri.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 09:19:20 PDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GREGOIRE@ENDOR.COM Subject: Re: Moser: Carniolans and swarming MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII << However, it is frequently questioned as to whether the euro-Carniolans and the US-Carniolans are still genetically closely related -- anyone know?>> Hello Gang, Sue Cobey gave a most interesting talk and slide show at the New Hampshire Beekeepers Assc, meeting recently. She said that the bees now available as NWC in the US are related to, but have been crossed with other races and are therefore not the same bees that are found in their native place of origin. To say that Carniolans ,(NWC), have a propensity to swarm is like saying that Italian bees are mean. All hives can swarm, it's a welcomed trait, without it we could not make increase. I'd rather focus on the positive aspects, like shutting down the queen from laying in a time of dearth, or going through the winter with a small cluster,thus consuming a small quantity of stores. And of course,they like working in light rain, starting early in the day. Queens also begin to lay early in the Spring. And of course, there is the admirable quality of gentleness. They do have a lot going for them. Oh, yes, I did not mention their resistance to T-mites. Grist Mill Apiary Ernie Gregoire Canaan, NH. USA ------------------------------------- 05/20/99 09:19:20 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 07:53:04 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Madeleine Pym Subject: Re: Cluster outside nucs/queens? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Karen, Congratulations on installing the bees. Without even disturbing the colony you will know if the queen is laying if you see plenty of bees carrying pollen into the hive on their back legs. If they don't have a laying queen this will be a minimum. You will also be able to see brood inside the colony pretty soon, when healthy and young they will look like pearly white c-shaped grub lying in the bottoms of the cells. You would be advised to get a good book - with pictures, and join some sort of club. As I am in London, England, I can't advise you on that but others will I'm sure. All the best and welcome on board, Madeleine Pym, London, England ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 09:17:15 -0500 Reply-To: cmichel@pbmo.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "M. C. Michel" Organization: Snap Shot Subject: Re: Carniolans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > From everything I > have gathered, it appears that the Carniolans could come really close to being the > perfect race for Easten Missouri. First hand observation of them also leads me > to believe that they are a good choice for this area. Scott, Here in SOUTHEASTERN Missouri, I find that New World Carniolans, with a mix of Texan Buckfast are almost perfect. My apiaries have just about some of everything. The Buckfast have been reliable (until supersede, then they'll be mean). But my addition of NWC have been outstanding! M. Chris Michel Poplar Bluff, MO ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 10:27:52 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: FGMO In-Reply-To: <199905201333.JAA18823@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > ... but, when I ran a thin bead of this (white) oil on the top > bars the bees responded very negatively. I thought they were going to > abandon the hive! Nowhere does Dr. Rodriguez claim that the bees will LIKE the FGMO. In fact he warns of such reactions as you describe. Too much mineral oil will not only kill the mites, it will also kill your bees. However, to answer your original question, the consumable mineral oil used to relieve constipation is the mineral oil recommended by Dr. R. Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 20:33:23 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Bee Brains and Melatonin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi All Just heard something interesting. Most brains have a hormone called melatonin in them. The hormone governs things like sleep cycles, and day night biorythms. It is also a powerful free radical scavenger and helps with repairing/stopping damage caused by things like UV, mercury and a host of others. It helps for a number of diseases, including rheumatoid arthritis. It extends the life expectancy of lab animals by 45% on average. It gives humans a better nights sleep. So why is it in incredibly high concentrations in bee brains????? Interesting piece of info. Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis 6139 South Africa Time = Honey ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 17:28:13 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Maximum beestings - 180+ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi All Interesting question Chriss on beestings. For a while I was averaging about 40 a day as well when I was doing a lot of removals. Last year Christmas time I took out a very strong old hive which forced me to suit up completely. The hive went beserk on me becuase of a moker problem (bad smoker day). Anyhow - my suit had a tear in the back and the bees got into my back and it went numb after a while so I went on working. They completely covered my suit with a thick matt of angry bees - power tools drilling into a hive can make them very cross. I recieved lots of snikc stings through the suit and my jeans as well. And a few to the face. When I had finished I went into the house and dsirobed and my friend helped me count the stings in my back - by taking them out and putting them into a cup. We got 180 removable stings!! That did not count the ones on the arms. The back is a soft region and the stings were all completely dry. (I will be posting a few pics on my website soon when I put it up!!) That night I felt fine - but I had built my tolerance up with some bad stinging incidents before then. I know now if I got that many I would feel quite vrot. Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis 6139 South Africa Time = Honey ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 10:48:15 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Sources for New World Carniolans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Taken from Herb's web page at http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee/ FRIESEN HONEY FARMS Glenn, CA. 95943 phone: 503-934-4944 - new world carniolan & wenner italian STRACHAN APIARIES, INC. Yuba City, CA. 95993 phone: 503-674-3881 fax: 503-674-5802 - new world carniolan - I'm sure there are others directly associated with Sue Cobey's breeding program at OSU but I can't find my note of 3 years ago when I took her queen rearing calss. Aaron Morris - thinking time sure flies! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 17:17:20 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Bees do gather wax MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi All Just to counter that bees do in fact gather wax. I have frequently left a super out by mistake and come back to find it dewaxed. If an apiery is nearby, or wild hives (which are everywhere here) is close the bees will gather wax if the ambient temperature is close to room temperature or above. They use it in propolis, and also in coverings. Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis 6139 South Africa Time = Honey ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 12:21:45 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Moser: Carniolans and swarming MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Curtis: Sue Cobey has licensed 6 queen breeders to produce Carniolan queens from her BREEDER QUEENS that SHE produces by artificial insemination. I can't name all 6, but I use Heitkam in California or Strachan in California. After 15 years with Italians, I switched to Carniolans 51 years ago to gain their explosive spring population increase to work our very early April &May Maryland nectar flow. Back in the 50's, 60, s & 70's getting GOOD Carnies was a bit of a problem, but then came Sue Cobey. She has started from scratch with the original Austrian blood of the Carnie and by closed breeding techniques developed the NEW WORLD stock of Carnies. However, ALL Carnies require thorough understanding of swarming and its control, and it is foolish to allow any queen to ever get over 12 months of age, requeen every year. Hope I have helped. George Imirie ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 10:31:54 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Andrew & Tiffany Subject: Re: shotgun swarm retrieval MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ummmm not the worst idea, but dont shoot the swarm, hit next to it that will jolt the bulk of them down the problem is at that hight most will be able to take flight before hitting the ground and zoom right back up to location, your best best is to set up a couple attractive bait hives the scouts will find it it no time. and this way you wont harm the tree in the proscess. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, May 20, 1999 12:05 AM Subject: shotgun swarm retrieval > Does anyone have first hand experience using a shotgun to dislodge a swarm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 09:43:37 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Roger Flanders Subject: Re: carniolan experience MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit William Lord wrote: >"...but we have an early spring and the carniolians were honey bound and slow to take off. I know the Bulgarians go into the hive in the spring and take a cappings scratcher and scratch the capped honey adjacent to the brood and get the colony to eat and expand, but this is too labor intensive for me." Fascinating. Do Bulgarian beekeepers do this in lieu of spring syrup feeding? How early in their spring do they try to stimulate feeding? FWIW, U. Of Nebraska entomologist Dr. Marion Ellis, who teaches intro beekeeping classes here each spring, recommends Carniolans for our climate for their wintering ability and gentleness. --Rog Flanders, southeast Nebraska, USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 07:59:51 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Scott Moser Organization: MailCity (http://www.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Hybrid Debate. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings all, I was determined to keep out of this discussion, but I guess the German in me is starting to show! Having extensively studied genetics in college, and raising purebred Angus show cattle for 10 years, I hope I can add a little to this hybrid/ purebred debate. Genetics is such a tricky thing anyway, it is really hard to make blanket statements. What role does genetics play, and what role does environment have? These are all valid questions that need to be asked. When talking about honeybees, who are primarily female, sex linked traits also come into play. Finally are purebred strains that are allowed to requeen themselves really purebred? You may keep a particular race, but what about any nearby beekeepers, or feral bees? Are they the same race as yours? You cant guarantee that the virgin queen is being mated by your drones only. Unless you are breeding your queens with A.I., or you are in an isolated area, there is a good chance that the offspring produced will, by definition, be hybrids. Hybrids do offer the advantage of "hybrid vigor". The offspring often perform better than either of the parent breeds. It is true that hybrid vegetables and fruit dont produce the best seed, primarily because they can self pollinate, thus allowing them to revert to their old strains. One cant realistically compare plant and animal genetics because of the differences in how fertilization occurs. Beekeepers, like anyone else need to decide what works best for them, and use that strategy. What race works for one, may not work well for another. As with anything, pick what fits you best, and stick with that. That choice may be hybrids, or purebreds, whatever you feel most comfortable with. Scott Moser Get your FREE Email at http://mailcity.lycos.com Get your PERSONALIZED START PAGE at http://my.lycos.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 13:36:42 -0500 Reply-To: "David D. Scribner" Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David D. Scribner" Subject: Re: manipulation or self distruction? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Troy, Another alternative, if you wanted to keep the captured swarm as a separate hive (#2), would be to take a few good frames of brood from a strong hive or two, along with a frame or two of honey and pollen, and place them in the captured colony's brood box. They, already having a queen, would get a great start. The other original hive (#1), being queenless, as long as they have a good supply of fresh eggs (or larvae less than three days old) will start emergency queen cells and raise a new queen. It would be a setback for them as you would be looking at about three weeks before the new queen emerges, mates and returns to the hive to start laying eggs. I had thought of this option as well, but when I pulled my Blooming Schedule records I kept out of the dusty folder, I see that the Mesquite should be in bloom about now around Midland/Odessa (though with your dry winter and early spring I don't know how good the flow will be), along with the other May/June wild flowers. Anyway, if you made two hives you probably wouldn't harvest as much from both of them as you would the one hive that was merged with the swarm. But, it _is_ another option. PS - Tried emailing to you personally using the address on your original list message (hence my first request), and again this morning to your email you sent to me personally, but none would go through. Contacted support@apex2000.net and they responded they had a Troy C. as a subscriber, but no one with the address you're using (The-window-God@apex2000.net). --David Scribner - Ballwin, MO, USA Niche on the Net! - >I took a bee hive out of a building last week ,put them in a brood box with >3 frames of brood .the next evening they were back on the building in >several swarms I determined that I destroyed the queen so I took another >queen from another hive packed her into a cage and taped her to a wall >under the larger swarm and finally got them all into the box happy.Now my >question, can this old hive that the queen came from and the new hive that >I caught with the old hives queen be combined without disrupting the scent? > thanks for any thoughts on scents. > Boy What A Mess, Troy C > Permian Basin Beekeepers > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 15:31:44 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Thom Bradley Subject: Re: shotgun swarm retrieval MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Telephone lineman have a tool that is in-effect a long telescoping pole made of fiberglass to keep it light enough to handle. The extension of this is close to 30 ft long. Attach a 5 gallon bucket to the top and you have a 30 ft swarm catcher. Know any lineman? I use a 2 piece aluminum pole w/each section 10 ft long, a 5 ga bucket with holes cut in and screen placed for ventilation. Use duct tape to attach the bucket to the pole. More than 17 ft from the ground? ( my reach +- with the pole) attach the second pole and I can easily reach that 25-27 ft swarm. Any higher than that and it probably isn't worth the trouble. Thom Bradley Chesapeake, Virginia > > Does anyone have first hand experience using a shotgun to dislodge a swarm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 14:42:34 -0500 Reply-To: "David D. Scribner" Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David D. Scribner" Subject: Re: frames needed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Glen, Can't help you with your need for frames, but for getting rid of the wax moths, stack your supers and frames about five-high (deeps) or ten-high (shallows), then put about six tablespoons of Paradicholorobenzene (PDB) crystals on a piece of paper, cardboard or paper plate and set it on top of the frames. Cover tightly and let set for a few weeks. This should kill any remaining larvae and eggs, and make it a little easier to clean out the old cocoons, webs, dung, etc. When you're treating stored woodenware with PDB, make sure to let them air out for a day or two before using them on your hives. You can find PDB in crystal or mothball form in some grocery stores, just make sure it's PDB and NOT Napthalene (check the active ingredients). It can be purchased as well through most beekeeping supply companies. There was also a message in the alt.science.beekeeping newsgroup a week or two ago where one beekeeper found a cheap source for PDB... in urinal cakes! --David Scribner - Ballwin, MO, USA Niche on the Net! - >Also, recommendations for the treatment of frame boxes to make sure >that remnants of the moths (eggs, lavae, pupa) are gone? > >Thank you. > >--glen > >glen@writeme.com > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 17:44:45 -0700 Reply-To: beeman@kingston.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Kent Stienburg Subject: Carniolan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, I have kept Carniolans for quite a while. To say that all hives will swarm is true and false. Alot depends on the beekeeper and the strain. The main reason for the carniolans tendancey to swarm is due to their extremly explosive spring build up. Here in Ontario I put a third deep in my hives on about the third week in March. I have the apistan in early March. This allows me to remove it in the middle of April and on go two drawn supers on the Carniolan and one on the Buckfast. This is because it is very common to have bees covering 8 frames top and bottom in the middle of the day in the carniolan hives while the Buckfast are considerably smaller. With all the early supers my buckfast haven't swarmed yet while I fight with the carniolan every spring. My first swarm was May 4 here. But they are gentle (even the supercedures are fine and I don't own a beesuit or gloves) and work very hard and when the buckfast aren't flying they are. -- Kent Stienburg Remove NOSPAM to reply. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 00:32:58 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: P-O Gustafsson Subject: Re: Hybrid Debate. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Scott Moser wrote: > I was determined to keep out of this discussion, Well, I was trying that too...... But a few thoughts from my point of view; I'm presently using Buckfast, have tried Carnica for several years and also been fiddling with some Ligustica. What is best at one location/climate might not be good at another. Bear this in mind when we talk bee races (and a lot of other things) on this list. There is also differences between what we have in Europe and what has been taken to America and there "adjusted" to different conditions and beekeeping methods. The New World Carniolans are a good example of this. I'm afraid we are not talking about the same bees, and that's the way it should be. Bees will adjust to local conditions when taken to another place. They will do it naturally, or with the "help" from breeders. But if we stick to what we can talk about, genetics and how we can use it to our advantage. I have limited knowledge about it, so I'll stay with what I use in my everyday bee work. The Midnight and Starline; To produce queens with a maximum of heterosis (hybrid vigour) you have to find two races/lines of bees that when crossed produce bees of exceptional quality. How many of you have got a hive that's better than everything else, that produces 50% more honey? That happens now and then when the genetic mixture in the bees fits better together. Now if you want to reproduce those bees, you will have to find the same queen and the same drones and cross them again. If you breed from that superior queen you will not get what you want (like if you would try to use the seeds from an F1 plant). So if we want to have those bees we will have to keep different lines with the exact genetics. This means inbreeding, and loosing vigour every generation in the mother colony. They will get so bad in the end that brood from other colonies will have to be added to just keep them alive. BUT, they will still produce excellent offspring when crossed with the "right" drones. These queens produced are end products, and no good for further breeding. And a scheme like this is very difficult to keep going for a longer time with bees. But when done right, it will produce better bees than we can get any other way. Allen Dick wrote: > Having said that, I guess any time we buy queens from different suppliers, > we are getting some degree of hybridization if they go on to reproduce. That's the way most of us keep the stock vigorous and healthy. By getting genetics from different sources we can get some hybrid vigour without the disadvantages of working with pure hybrids. > What I can't figure is all the talk of mean offspring from Buckfasts. > AFAIK, Buckfasts are not highly inbred or hybridized... What gives? Bad breeders...... well, it's not quite that simple. There is a state of conflict here between producing "pure" bees, and getting the most vigorous offspring that gives a better result. When all breeding involves a sudden amount of inbreeding to keep the desired traits, there is the balance between "pure" queens and prolific queens. And breeders will make different choices here. The answer might be that there is not enough material imported to the US from England to ensure different lines of Buckfast bees to cross. Buckfasts are a mixture of many races, but no real hybrids. They are stable like other races and produce good offspring if used for queen mothers. When a new race is mixed into the Buckfast bees, it will not be used for production until the traits are stable and all bees will have the same behaviour. This will take a number of generations before it is released as "pure Buckfast". There are numbers of different Buckfast lines available and crossed with each other to ensure that inbreeding doesn't happen here in Europe. My experience from Buckfast is that they winter as good as Carnica, better than Ligustica. They don't swarm like Carnica and can be very gentle. Some of the lines are as fast at spring build up as Carnica. But you have a limited number of suppliers in America, and will probably not get the diversity we have. So once again, we are not talking about the same bees.... Just some thoughts........ -- Regards P-O Gustafsson, Sweden beeman@algonet.se http://www.algonet.se/~beeman/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 21:12:33 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: RASpiek@AOL.COM Subject: feeding honey to bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Today I extracted my first batch of honey. I had 2 shallow supers full of last falls honey(probably goldenrod)that I have no use for. I am using strictly mediums. So, I decided to use some of this for practice and it went well. 5 frames yielded about 16 pounds (10+ pints). Now what to do. The honey is dark and strong. Might be ok to bake with but I wouldn't. I thought about using these frames to feed in the spring but if I give it back to the bees, won't it make the rest of their honey strong. Is this honey that I need to dispose of. I wouldn't want anyone to get any and be turned off on honey. Thanks Richard West Ky USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 18:34:49 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ken Adney Subject: thirsty girls MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit 1st hive here in western Washington state. Our first 80 degree day is forecast for this weekend. Over 3 gallons of 1:1 (by volume) sugar water consumed in under 3 weeks by my 3 lb package. Outside 4 frames not yet drawn. Continue feeding for another 3 weeks (or until they stop taking more)? Thanks. ken ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 13:43:08 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bruce Guidotti Subject: Re: Beeswax and Wiring Jig ???s MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/15/99 2:29:06 PM, Gothoney@aol.com writes: << I have been using a cross with two additional horizontal wires for added strength. I tighten them by hand easily. It is worth the extra time to have 4 wires with the middle two criss, crossed. Regards, a proud owner of Pierco frames for the past 5 years!!!!!!!!!!!! >> I am just trying Pierco for the first time this season on a package of bees I just hived. In the first week they made what seemed to me to be an inordinate amount of free comb in the space where I hung the queen cage. Second week, they didn't draw out much more of the Pierco. I mixed Pierco and regular foundation frames last weekend to try to see if there tardiness is due to unseasonably cold weather in the Berkshires or to reluctance to accept Pierco. Anyone any experiences or opinions about acceptance of Pierco? Bruce ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 20:33:06 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dave Pehling Subject: Re: shotgun swarm retrieval In-Reply-To: <199905200923.FAA16639@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi Matt and all, I've done the shotgun method once on a high swarm where I didn't want to risk my neck. Use a full choke and shoot the limb off. Since the queen comes down with the swarm, they stay put on the ground. The shock of the impact does not seem to kill a lot of bees and the queen is usually cushioned by the mass of bees. This method is NOT recommended for swarms in town ;-) Cheers, Dave Pehling ============================================ | W.S.U. COOPERATIVE EXTENSION-SNOHOMISH CO. | | 600 128TH ST. S.E. | | EVERETT, WA. 98208 U.S.A. | | PHONE - (425)338-2400 | | FAX - (425)338-3994 | | EMAIL pehling@wsu.edu | ============================================ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 22:22:23 -0600 Reply-To: fltdeck1@ix.netcom.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Matthew Subject: Re: thirsty girls MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Ken, We purchased fifty 3-lb packages of NWCarniolans this year and all but one have consumed 3 gallons in the past 3 weeks. I've been checking them more regularly lately and found they'll consume their 3/4 gal feeder in just under 2 days - so yours & my bees are probably more like little 'oinkers' than we've allowed them to show us. I'll keep feeding them until the nectar is really coming in, gaged by my older hives. You should be just starting your flow (?) so I'd keep feeding them for the next 2-3 weeks, or at least until they have a full deep drawn. "Bigger the better" on starting new packages - especially on new foundation. Regards, Matthew Westall Castle Rock, CO Ken Adney wrote: > 1st hive here in western Washington state. Our first 80 degree day is > forecast for this weekend. > > Over 3 gallons of 1:1 (by volume) sugar water consumed in under 3 > weeks by my 3 lb package. Outside 4 frames not yet drawn. Continue > feeding for another 3 weeks (or until they stop taking more)? Thanks. > > ken ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 00:19:15 -0500 Reply-To: "David D. Scribner" Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David D. Scribner" Subject: Re: feeding honey to bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Richard wrote: >I had 2 shallow supers full of >last falls honey(probably goldenrod)that I have no use for. I am using >strictly mediums. So, I decided to use some of this for practice and it went >well. 5 frames yielded about 16 pounds (10+ pints). >Now what to do. The honey is dark and strong. Might be ok to bake with but >I wouldn't. I thought about using these frames to feed in the spring but if >I give it back to the bees, won't it make the rest of their honey strong. Assuming the honey is from a colony known to be free of diseases (especially AFB), why wait until next spring to feed it back to them? Use it this fall. That way they won't be storing it in frames of other, "more desirable" honey and it won't get mixed. Once you've pulled the last of your supers for extracting at the end of the season, thin the honey with enough water to create a thick syrup that you can use in your feeders. Since it didn't crystallized over the winter it should make good winter stores. The one thing you might want to take extra precautions with is to make sure your feeding doesn't cause robbing (DON'T use a boardman entrance feeder!). At the end of the season, when the flows are winding down, honey bees are more prone to rob. Now, if the honey was heavily crystallized in the comb (which some Goldenrod is likely to do), IMHO I would not feed it back to them in the fall as it makes it more difficult for them to use (and they can use all the support we can give them to make it through the winter). Give it back to them in the spring before the major flow, and they will use collected water to dissolve it down. >Is this honey that I need to dispose of. I wouldn't want anyone to get any >and be turned off on honey. >Thanks >Richard >West Ky USA The only honey I would dispose of is honey that is foul tasting AND was collected from a colony with a contagious desease (like AFB), or ruined by overheating (left-over from any wax rendering in a solar wax melter). These are not good for eating in my opinion (though I have heard of some people that use solar wax-rendered honey left-overs for baking), and should not be fed back to bees, either. --David Scribner - Ballwin, MO, USA Niche on the Net! - ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 00:26:31 -0500 Reply-To: "David D. Scribner" Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David D. Scribner" Subject: Re: thirsty girls MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ken wrote: >Over 3 gallons of 1:1 (by volume) sugar water consumed in under 3 weeks by my 3 lb package. Outside 4 frames not yet drawn. Continue feeding for another 3 weeks (or until they stop taking more)? Thanks. > >ken Yes. Keep feeding them. When something better comes along, they'll usually stop taking the syrup and "go with the flow". In the meantime you're helping them by providing the food they need to build out those frames of foundation into comb! --David Scribner - Ballwin, MO, USA Niche on the Net! - ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 01:34:50 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Sid Pullinger Subject: Driving Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit <<<>>>> A bit of history this. Skep beekeeping was quite common in rural areas in England up to the early years of this century. My uncle, who started me beekeeping (not with skeps) in 1930, was one such beekeeper. His father and grandfather were skeppist beekeepers so he saw no reason to change to hives. Straw cost nothing and he was a skilled skep maker. I often watched him driving bees precisely as Tom Speight described. Rhythmic drumming on the full skep started the bees moving upwards to the empty one and in a short time the bees were all in the top empty skep. This was a far better method than the old fashioned sulphur pit, which killed all the bees. Sid P. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 09:11:52 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Anthony N Morgan Organization: Sor-Trondelag College, Division of Electronic Engineering Subject: Re: carniolan experience MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Roger Flanders wrote: > > William Lord wrote: >"..I know the Bulgarians go into > the hive in the spring and take a cappings > scratcher and scratch the capped honey adjacent to > the brood and get the colony to eat and expand, > but this is too labor intensive for me." > > Fascinating. Do Bulgarian beekeepers do this in > lieu of spring syrup feeding? How early in their > spring do they try to stimulate feeding? We do the same here. Why feed if there is plenty of winter stores still present in the brood chamber (sugar syrup from the autumn in our case)? The theory is that the bees clean up the weepings from the scratched cells which encourages them to eat more, concentrate on fetching pollen and increase brood production. After a bad winter (ie one with many up and down temp fluctuations) stores are usually low and of course one then has to feed but as long as the weather is halfway reasonable the bees soon fetch more than enough themselves without any need for "stimulation". Cheers Tony Carniolans 62 degrees north (approx) -- Anthony N Morgan, Førsteammanuensis Institutt for Elektroteknikk Høgskolen i Sør-Trøndelag N-7004 Trondheim, Norway anthony@iet.hist.no Tlf. 73 55 96 04 Fax. 73 55 95 81 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 14:56:46 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Madeleine Pym Subject: Re: driving skeps Pt 2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit OK back again on this one. I spoke with my father and his method of clearing the skep, AFTER the bees are driven out, is to put it in an empty brood box over a queen excluder, and above the newly housed bees. They will nurse the brood until it has emerged and then rob out the stores. Come the end of the year you can take it away and it should be nice and clean throughout. He asks me to reinforce that if any of you beekeepers out there try this to be sure to only tap very gently indeed when driving the bees, because otherwise the combs can become dislodged and it will ruin your hard work. Best of luck anyone trying this one. Madeleine Pym, London, England. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 07:45:59 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Joe Rollins Subject: Re: shotgun swarm retrieval MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have gotten a hive from about forty feet up in a pine tree with a rifle. I used 5 shots from a 22 cal. rifle to cut the limb behind the swarm, but this was a rural area, with no inhabitants within 2 miles of the direction of fire, to rain lead on. Joe Rollins SW Mississippi ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 06:22:26 +0000 Reply-To: "BIBBA-L (The Bee Improvements and Bee Breeders' Association)" Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: Resent-From: "Aaron Morris" Comments: Originally-From: "BIBBA-L (The Bee Improvements and Bee Breeders' Association)" From: Aaron Morris Subject: beekeeping visits MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have received the following message on behalf of a local beekeeper who is away. If anyone can help please contact Steve direct. From: stephen and gail mitchell To: roncrocker@lineone.net Subject: beekeeping visits Date: Friday, May 21, 1999 07:04 I will arrive in Britain on May 27 and proceed directly to the Isle of Wight to visit family for 1 - 2 days. From there, I will move to Leicester to join my wife who has been in Britain since May 6th. We have a small beekeeping operation(100+ colonies)here on Vancouver Island, where we produce package bees, nucleus colonies, and honey. I would very much like to meet one or more beekeepers in south England on May 29 or 30; Yorkshire,June 1 or 2, and perhaps the Perth area June 6 or 7. Any contacts which you can raise at this short notice would be most appreciated. Sincerely, Steve Mitchell Steve and Gail Mitchell Van Isle Apiaries 4820 Wilson Rd. Duncan, BC V9L 6L6 Phone(250)746-9916 Fax (250) 746-9233 --- * BIBBA-L from UK Beenet Host in London http://www.kentbee.com * To Unsubscribe email: mailserver@zbee.com * Subject: MsgBody: unsubscribe Bibba-L * Mailserver commands email: mailserver@zbee.com MsgBody: help Bibba-L * Administrator email: postmaster@zbee.com * WEB http://www.angus.co.uk/bibba/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 21:42:08 -0500 Reply-To: lithar@midwest.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: AL Subject: Re: shotgun swarm retrieval MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thom Bradley wrote: > > Telephone lineman have a tool that is in-effect a long telescoping pole > made of fiberglass to keep it light enough to handle. The extension of > this is close to 30 ft long. Attach a 5 gallon bucket to the top and you > have a 30 ft swarm catcher. Know any lineman? Funny you should mention this tool - it is referred to as a shotgun in the trade. I am not a lineman but I do work in the industry where they are employed. BTW have you heard the definition of the perfect lineman? A guy with 48" shoulders and a size 2 hat. AL ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 09:09:27 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Thom Bradley Subject: Re: feeding honey to bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rich, Strong tasting honey is good for several things. Here is what I use it for. 1)Make soda or beer or mead. Root beer with honey instead of sugar is outstanding and you can use alot quick. Mead is better with strong honey and at 10-16 lb. a batch, it goes quick. 2)Use it to make iced tea (nothing better than strong honey for tea) 3)Heat it at about 180+ F. for a while to caramelize it and darken it up to use in place of maple syrup or as caramel on ice cream sundaes. 4)Heat it to 240 F. and keep stirring, cool it and drop a tablespoon a at a time onto waxed paper and roll, place in the refrigerator. eat it like taffy. 5) Sell/trade it to a baker. At US$2.00/lb. retail, that's expensive bee food. Thom Bradley Chesapeake, Virginia, USA RASpiek@aol.com wrote: > Now what to do. The honey is dark and strong. Might be ok to bake with but > I wouldn't. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 07:10:04 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Beekeeperc@AOL.COM Subject: Re: FGMO MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The FGMO I use is Crisco (Brand Name) its shortening that is in a solidified form. I mix one pound of this shortening with two pounds of confectioners sugar (powdered sugar). I spread about a tablespoon on the top bars over the brood everytime I inspect a hive. The idea being that the bees walk over and eat the sugar and get the grease on the hairs of their bodies and the mites can not hold on and fall to the bottom of the hive and die. Hope this helps someone. Norm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 09:50:10 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Poles with baskets Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Entomologists and forester's use a system similar to the lineman's pole and bucket to sample branches high in trees for insect and disease surveys. Most are telescoping pole pruner's (like you find in garden centers) with one important difference. A metal hoop and fabric basket is mounted on the pole just below the cutting head. These pruner's are usually a bit sturdier than the garden center variety (the weight of the "basket" tends to collapse or buckle light poles) One could make up a swarm catcher fairly easily. Any pole would work. For a deluxe system (money no object), go to a janitorial or paint supply store. They sell heavy, telescoping poles for window washing or overhead painting. I'd suggest fiberglass. You might survive tapping a power line with a fiberglass or wooden pole, I'd not want to try it with a metal pole. Make the hoop for the basket out of a Flat BAR of aluminum - say 1/8 thick x 1/2 inch wide x ? feet. The last measure depends on how big you want your basket opening to be. Too small and you will just brush bees around. Too large, and you will have a heck of a time holding it up. I'd shoot for a diameter of 2-3 ft. Don't use a round rod or wire. Why? An old entomologist's sweep net trick. Wire and round rods bend easily and the hoop may fold under the weight of the bees. A flat piece of metal makes a hoop that will be almost impossible to bend. Remember the metal bands around wooden wagon wheels? Form your hoop around a bucket or some other round object. Where the ends meet, you can make a mount for the pole by just bending the last few inches of each end of the flat bar back at about 90 degrees to the hoop. For the bag, I'd suggest something light in weight and color. Nylon works well, very slippery - the pole pruner's that I mentioned often use a heavy white nylon bag (light material will snag and tear in branches). I've also used a mesh bag (not netting - more like the material used in onion bags). I like the mesh bag. I don't need a box. Tie off the bag and the bees can still breath. You can transport them to where you need them - assuming you don't leave the bag in the sun and that the swarm has enough room to move around in the bag. Bottom line, lots cheaper than the medical bills for falling out of a tree. Jerry J. Bromenshenk, Ph.D. Director, DOE/EPSCoR & Montana Organization for Research in Energy The University of Montana-Missoula Missoula, MT 59812-1002 E-Mail: jjbmail@selway.umt.edu Tel: 406-243-5648 Fax: 406-243-4184 http://www.umt.edu/biology/more http://www.umt.edu/biology/bees ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 09:12:48 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Roy Subject: Re: Hybrid Debate. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Scott Moser wrote: > >. Genetics is such a tricky thing anyway, it is really hard to make > blanket statements. What race works for one, may not work well for > another. As with anything, pick what fits you best, and stick with that. That > choice may be hybrids, or purebreds, whatever you feel most comfortable with. > > Hello All, My observations over the last 30 years brings out support for Scotts statements. Hybrid queens have a plus. In most csaes,the number of sex alleles is 12 or more. That equates to better egg hatch. That is about the only thing you can count on.Then comes the phenotype, how the genes respond to different environments. That is the meat and potatoes. One hybrid will work well down south in the US , but not very well up north. Behaviors come from the genes and there reaction to the enviornment.So there is no perfect across the board hybrid.Nature is a complex of variance.We can breed for certain traits, but they have to be environmentally tuned. For down to earth beekeeping. One should try queens from different breeders. We have a gene problem in the USA. Only 8 family's of bees to work from.Thats not much. So breeders that get breeding stock from all over, will put out a better product.Then comes the real nuts and bolts. Do they do there queen production with good starter and finisher hives. Is there good flight weather for the queens and drones.This last year in California was bad for early queens. So you can't jump to a lot of conclusions about any one breeder. Next year they may be great. I'm doing some spot requeening for the second time this year.I have 200 hives and requeened 4 hives yesterday.All hives MUST have good laying queens. Weak spotty brood will not do for a good honey crop. Honeybee genetics can get very complex.Hybrids can fit well in some applications.They will not fit everything and every place. Sue Cobeys work is coming along very well.Her breeding program will make a difference. Selective breeding with positive traits will help all of us in the future.Hybrids can be worked out of the system down stream. After a good base is set.Importation of new stock will make that happen. Very Best Regards Roy Nettlebeck Tahuya River Apiaries ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 14:06:50 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Nick Shilliff Subject: Feeding honey to the bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You dont need to throw the goldenrod honey our or feed it to the bees.We sell lots of fall honey here for table honey.Our customers demand this over the light /mild summer honey. They like the strong,robust flavor,different from the normal "sue Bee" blend found at the market Nick Shilliff upstate NY,USA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 12:42:17 -0700 Reply-To: ryarnell@orednet.org Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard Yarnell Subject: Re: Feeding honey to the bees I recall that the original post was not clear on whether the honey was produced or in the hive while Apistan or other mite treatment was in the hive. In the event that it was, it is my understanding the honey shouldn't be marketed. >You dont need to throw the goldenrod honey our or feed it to the bees.We >sell lots of fall honey here for table honey.Our customers demand this >over the light /mild summer honey. -- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 18:40:35 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Darrell Laney Organization: Microsoft Corporation Subject: Re: FGMO Crisco is not Food Grade Mineral Oil. Northeast Alabama Beekeepers Assoc.: Sec.\Tres. Jefferson Co. Beekeepers Assoc.: Member If you need info on joining any of these clubs, please email me. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 23:09:51 -0400 Reply-To: Chris Heffner Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Chris Heffner Subject: Carniolans Comments: To: BEE-L Posts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello group, I am a second year beekeeper that bought a nuc with a Carniolan queen, last season to start with. I am learning quickly about swarming...do not take lightly they're desire to swarm...My hive began making preparations for swarming in the end of the first week of May, in Central Pennsylvania. I should have requeened them early this spring. I was amazed at how fast they were ready to go. I will say this they are so gentle. I could probably do almost anything to that hive and they barely notice. If you roll too many they get upset. The only other thing that seems to bother them is too much smoke...I rarely use it anymore except when opening up. I will continue to keep them and see if they remain gentle. I hope others continue to tell of their experience with them it is very interesting to me to read others experiences with them. Chris Heffner