From MAILER-DAEMON Fri Sep 17 12:52:15 1999 Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27308 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:52:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA11098 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:52:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199909171652.MAA11098@listserv.albany.edu> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:52:10 -0400 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8d)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG9905D" To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Content-Length: 194802 Lines: 4260 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 00:27:58 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: RASpiek@AOL.COM Subject: feeding honeyt to bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit thanks forall of the opinions and advice. I will use some of the honey and feed the rest of it back this fall. It was not produced while apistan was applied. Richard West Ky ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 07:27:25 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: eabell Subject: Re: shotgun swarm retrieval MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Is the objective to hit the branch and break it off behind the swarm? Or is > the idea to shoot directly into the swarm, thereby causing them to lose their > collective grips and fall, obviously sacrificing a few bees, hopefully not > the queen? -- I have tried this but have no idea if it works or not. My ideas was to HIT THE QUEEN so the workers would return to the hive where they belong. Lots of bees are killed but if even 50% return home that is better than losing them all. > Eric & Marnie Abell Box 87 Gibbons, AB T0A 1N0 Canada Phone/fax (780) 998 3143 eabell@compusmart.ab.ca ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 21:58:36 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Glyn Davies Subject: Lone Queen Piping and Skeps MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear All Two years ago I had a call to collect a swarm on a house roof. They were agitated and spread out over the tiles. They would not gather into a skep or box. I guessed they were queenless. I took a queen from a nuc at home, caged her and went back to the swarm. They were all in the box in half an hour. I took the Q back to her nuc where her bees were already missing her loudly. As she would have scented of the swarm I rested the cage on the nuc top bars. I heard a quiet sound - a sort of mewing. It took a while to realise it was coming from the Q in her cage. The bees had gathered round and did not seem aggressive towards her. I released her and she eagerly walked down between the combs and lived happily ever after. It made me think that that mewing sound was a real glad to be back greeting. Perhaps I am getting old and sentimental. But that is the story even if the interpretation is wrong. Regards, Glyn Davies, Ashburton, Devon UK ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 13:57:48 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "L. Hansen" Subject: Sv: Bees do gather wax MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Garth. >...bees do in fact gather wax. ....They use it in propolis, and also in coverings. Very interesting. I too have seen my bees gather wax from a (forgotten) queen excluder outside the hive and totally ignore bits of wax INSIDE the hive. Older beekeepers have told me, that they reuse old wax for capping honey. It seem obvious, that we have more than one kind of wax in the hive, but Your observation on reuse for propolis is new for me - can You comment on that? Lars in Denmark (on top of Germany :-D ) ... at about 55.25 N, 10.23 E ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 10:30:06 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert Dahlgren Subject: Re: FGMO MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Norm , What you are using is/are commonly called grease patties . Do not get = them confused with the FGMO Treatment that Dr. Rodriquez is using, or = confuse other people about it. The grease patties were/are used for tracheal mites. Thought that you would like to know. Bob ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 18:48:12 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Driving bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have used this method. It works as described. Bees will leave the brood. This can be removed and tied into frames. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 22:24:49 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: SoVerNet Verification (on garnet.sover.net) Plindena from arc1a183.bf.sover.net [209.198.80.183] 209.198.80.183 Thu, 20 May 1999 22:31:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Charles Frederic Andros Subject: Re: Kent Stienburg: Carniolans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Kent, I had a swarm on May 1 that came back due to a clipped queen. It was my own fault; I should have supered earlier. It was a two-queen hive that had wintered with a single over a double and I’d combined them to requeen and made up another nuc with the bottom deep. Cool weather and lack of time kept me from getting on more supers. They sure were hanging out! Of course I lost the queen, but I had another on top ready to go. Early supering and nuking seems to do the trick. I've had various Carnies since '76. Tried the rest, stick with the best! NWC homepage: http://iris.biosci.ohio-state.edu/honeybee/breeding Breeders: Sue Cobey: cobey.1@osu.edu Good luck, Charles Andros Linden Apiaries since 1973 Walpole, NH Residence: Latitude: 43° 05’ North, Longitude: 72° 21’ 15" West, Elevation 1200’ Keeper of 41 two-queen colonies for honey, pollen, propolis, pollination, nuclei, beeswax, apitherapy, and education. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 15:31:58 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tom Speight Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 20 May 1999 to 21 May 1999 (#1999-57) In-Reply-To: <199905220402.AAA08105@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 In message <199905220402.AAA08105@listserv.albany.edu>, Automatic digest processor writes ><<<sense to >me in this case because here we have an intact colony with brood. In my >experience with bees (although I admit no experience with skeps), bees will >not >abandon brood. Why would they do that in this set up?>>>>> Sorry to be so late replying, but have been ill for a few days, and came back still groggy and removed most of my mail. To answer. Yes! not with skeps, but I once got bees out of a wooden hive that was in a terrible state by inverting it and drumming on the side to drive them into a clean hive placed above. Beats should be slow and rhythmic, not a fast drumroll. Why it works I don't know, and the fact that they leave the brood may be something to do with the belief (how true I don't know) that a queen wont lay in cells that are upside down. -- Tom Speight ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 15:11:52 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pollinator@AOL.COM Subject: Drumming bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/22/99 11:53:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Tom@tomsp8.demon.co.uk writes: > I once got bees out of a wooden > hive that was in a terrible state by inverting it and drumming on the > side to drive them into a clean hive placed above. > Beats should be slow and rhythmic, not a fast drumroll. > Why it works I don't know, and the fact that they leave the brood may > be something to do with the belief (how true I don't know) that a queen > wont lay in cells that are upside down. That's a double whammy. I have gotten bees out of old hives, with cross comb, etc by turning the box upside down and putting a good one over it. The queen seems to move up readily, within a few days. Drumming also works. And it works whether or not the box is inverted, or whether there is brood. We drum bees for packages. It doesn't make them near as snotty as shaking frames. Just a steady thumping with a rubber mallet, doesn't have to be hard, just steady; and the bees will abandon any box, or hollow log. I don't seen how you could drum a skep, because it is not solid. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html The Pollination Home Page: http://www.pollinator.com Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 21:37:35 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Maurice Kuyckx Subject: Fw: AGRAR.de News : Neue Nachricht Comments: To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: siehe@Text.der.Nachricht Aan: m.kuyckxhasselt@glo.be Datum: vendredi 21 mai 1999 11:51 Onderwerp: AGRAR.de News : Neue Nachricht >Eine neue Nachricht, "Bt-Mais - Gefahr auch für Nützlinge?," von @grar.de >Aktuell (c), geschrieben am Freitag, 21. Mai 1999, um 11:55 Uhr liegt >in Forum AGRAR.de News () > >------------------------- > > > >Genetisch veränderter Mais könnte US-Forschern zufolge Schmetterlingen >und anderen Nützlingen genauso schaden wie Schädlingen. > >Das berichtet die Arbeitsgruppe um John Losey von der Cornell University >in Ithaca (US-Bundesstaat New York) in einem Brief an das britische Fachmagazin >Nature (Bd. 399, S. 214), der am Donnerstag veröffentlicht wurde. In einem >Versuch wurden Pollen vom Bt-Mais im Labor an Raupen des Monarchfalters >(Danaus plexippus) verfüttert, die daraufhin starben. > >Der Wissenschaftler warnte allerdings vor übereilten Reaktionen: 'In wie >weit der Bt-Mais für freilebende Monarchen und andere Schmetterlinge eine >Gefahr darstellt, muß noch untersucht werden.' Außerdem sei zu bedenken, >daß beim Anbau dieser Maissorte weniger schädliche Insektizide eingesetzt >werden, so der Forscher weiter. Vor- und Nachteile müssen sorgfältig gegeneinander >abgewogen werden. > >Der auch in Deutschland angebaute Bt-Mais produziert in Blatt, Stengel >und Pollen das Toxin des Bakteriums Bacillus thuringiensis und schützt >sich damit vor Insektenfraß durch den Maiszünsler. Da Mais eine windbestäubte >Pflanze ist, gelangt Pollen auch auf die Blätter weit entfernter Pflanzen, >die einer Vielzahl von Insekten als Nahrung dienen. > >Andreas Seiter, Sprecher des Saatgutherstellers Novartis, zweifle die Ergebnisse >der Cornell University nicht an, gab aber zu bedenken, es handele sich >um Laborversuche, die ökologisch nicht relevant seien. Die Pollen seien >im Labor zwangsverfüttert worden. Ob diese Laborbedingungen auf Freilandbedingungen >übertragbar sind, sei zweifelhaft. > >Informationen zu Bt-Mais von Hersteller Novartis http://www.novartis.de/novartis/html/d/medien/presse/990429.htm > >Hintergrundpapier des Öko-Instituts Freiburg zu Bt-Mais http://www.oeko.de/deutsch/gentech/mais.htm > >Aktueller Bericht der BBC http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_348000/348297.stm > > > ------------------------- > >Dies ist eine automatisch generierte Nachricht.Wenn Sie von der Liste entfernt >werden möchten, besuchen Sie bitte AGRAR.de News unter >oder schicken Sie Ihre Abmeldung an info@agrar.de . Greetings Maurice Belgium > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 09:41:48 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Bees do gather wax In-Reply-To: <199905221449.KAA13122@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >...bees do in fact gather wax. ....They use it in propolis, and > also in coverings. While interesting, this still does not mean that one should discard wax around the bee yard while scraping frames and cutting burr comb, and this was the original question. The gathering of wax and propolis from scrapings and combs left around outside beehives *may* ocur occasionally -- or even more regularly with some types of bees or in some locales -- but in my limited experience (25+ years of commercial beekeeping with almost all the breeds available in North America at one time or another), you cannot count on the bees to come and clean up after sloppy beekeeping. In summer, they won't even bother to pick up *honey* from comb on the ground around here. Inside the hive, bees are regularly throwing old wax out the door, along with scales of new wax that fall down, so, although we do know that bees do re-use wax, we also know that it does not happen much -- or reliably -- when they have lots of new wax, such as during flows. Frankly, I never seen any appreciable amount of gathering of used propolis or wax where I live and I'm fairly observant. I'd love to be able to take a stack of excluders out to a bee yard and have then cleaned by the bees. allen ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 19:47:09 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Chris Konopka Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello all! This is my second posting-I want to thank everyone who responded to my first posting, this is a wonderful group--Once again, I am a beginner beekeeper, just started in April woth a package of Italian bees--I have just a few quick questions 1. My friend and I went into our hive today for the 4th or 5th time-(our hive still consisting of a single deep hive body)--everything looked good (lot of capped brood, stored honey, and a large population increase) 6 of the 10 frames were completed (drawn out and containing brood), 2 were well on their way, and the last 2 were being worked on but not much was accomplished yet--however, we added a 2nd deep hive body when we were finished with 10 brand new frames, figuring that with such a large population increase, it wasn't good to leave them in just 1 box--question: did we do the right thing or will the bees now move to the new box and forget about the 4 frames which need to be completed in the 1st box (a local beekeeper said not to add the 2nd box until they were working on the last 2 frames of the 1st) 2.we have noticed drone cells here and there (not many), but today when we went in we noticed at the bottom of 2 or 3 frames a total of 3 cells which could be the start of queen cells, but we are not positive--they aren't as big as the queen cells I've seen in pictures, but they are at the bottom of the frames and they are somewhat bigger than drone cells--what should we do? 3. should we have put 2 frames from the 1st box which were drawn out into the second box which we added? I would appreciate any help--thanks Chris Konopka--SE Pennsylvania ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 17:02:16 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Billson Organization: my honeybees are more organized :-) Subject: smell? honey or disease? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi all... A question from a relative newbee (with only 3 years under my belt, I still certainly feel like a newbee. :-) I went out to inspect my 4 colonies this morning. 2 of the colonies were started from packages a month ago. I split one colony. All the hives have new Buckfast queens. All the colonies except the one I made the split split from seem to doing well. All are actively foraging. The one the split was taken from has me concerned. When I opened it, there was this unusual odor. It reminded me of wet, cut grass that was starting to rot, but the smell was nowhere near as overpowering. I didn't see any obvious signs of disease. But that smell sure is nasty. If it is nectar, I'm curious what it is. :-) What I did see was a lot of capped brood. Most of it looks like drone. I didn't spot the queen. Though she isn't marked and with all the bees, I could easily miss her. The bees were a bit more aggressive then usual, but I didn't get stung. Is it possible the new queen failed? There are no supercedure cells. Could I have laying worker or just a bad new queen or just one that hasn't settled down yet? And how do I figure which it is? What is my best choice this late in the Spring if there is a problem? Recombine the split colony? I would appreciate any advice bee-l'ers can offer. Thanks. bob -- bob billson email: bob@goleader.com ham: kc2wz ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 14:15:41 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: English translation of German Post MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I got this by using the Altavista transalation facility. Seems to be working quite well now. There are some awkward things, but it is pretty clear... For more info on the translator: http://www.altavista.com/av/avie5/avtools.html --- Genetically changed corn could harm according to US researchers butterflies and other Nuetzlingen exactly the same like parasits. The working group reports around John Losey of the Cornell University in Ithaca (US Federal State New York) in a letter to the British drawer magazine Nature (Bd. 399, P. 214), which was published on Thursday. In an attempt pollen were fed by Bt-corn in the laboratory at crawler-type vehicles of the monarch monarchfalters (Danaus plexippus), which thereupon died. The scientist warned however of reactions over-hurried: ' in as far Bt-corn for free-living monarchs and other butterflies a danger represents, must be still examined. ' Additionally that with the cultivation of this corn sort fewer harmful insecticides are used, so the researcher is to be considered further. Pro and cons must be weighed out carefully against each other. Also Bt-corn produced in page, stack and pollen the Toxin of the bacterium Bacillus, cultivated in Germany, thuringiensis and protects itself thereby forwards insect-ate by the Maiszuensler. Since corn is a wind-dusted plant, pollen arrives also at the pages of far plants, which serve a multiplicity of insects as food. Andreas Seiter, speaker of the seeds manufacturer Novartis, does not doubt the results of the Cornell University, gave however to consider, it concern lab tests, which were ecologically not relevant. The pollen were obligation-fed in the laboratory. Whether these laboratory conditions are portable to open land conditions, is doubtful. Information to Bt-corn of manufacturer Novartis http://www.novartis.de/novartis/html/d/medien/presse/990429.htm background paper of the Oeko institute Freiburg to Bt-corn http://www.oeko.de/deutsch/gentech/mais.htm Current report of the BBC http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_348000/348297.stm Greetings Maurice Belgium http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 04:07:37 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: SoVerNet Verification (on pike.sover.net) Plindena from tempa4.bf.sover.net [207.136.202.4] 207.136.202.4 Sun, 23 May 1999 04:45:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Charles Frederic Andros Subject: Allen Dick: propolis on excluders MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Allen, et al, I think that the observation of bees collecting wax or propolis is simply robbing activity. As for getting propolis off excluders, I run mine through my paraffin barrel which gets most of it off. This is the same barrel in which I cook my woodware for 15 minutes each at about 250° in lieu of painting. Regards, Charles Andros Linden Apiaries since 1973 Former NH/VT Apiary Inspector '78-’89 1 McLean Road POB 165 Walpole, NH 03608-0165 USA/EUA Residence: Latitude: 43° 05’ North, Longitude: 72° 21’ 15" West, Elevation 1200’ Keeper of 41 two-queen colonies for honey, pollen, propolis, pollination, nuclei, beeswax, apitherapy, and education ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 07:41:18 +0100 Reply-To: Ruary Rudd Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ruary Rudd Subject: Re: smell? honey or disease? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: Bob Billson Date: 22 May 1999 22:02 Subject: smell? honey or disease? >What I did see was a lot of capped brood. Most of it looks like drone. I >didn't spot the queen. Though she isn't marked and with all the bees, I could >easily miss her. > >Is it possible the new queen failed? There are no supercedure cells. >Could I have laying worker or just a bad new queen or just one that hasn't >settled down yet? And how do I figure which it is? > bob >-- When you are inspecting a colony it is not necessary to actually find the queen to ensure that she is there. Inspect the brood area for recently laid eggs If they are present laid one to a cell and in the bottom of the cell then you have a queen laying. If they are present and there are several in each cell and they are attached to the side wall of the cell you might have a queen which is just starting to lay or you might have a laying worker, in that case examination of sealed brood cells would help to determine the matter. Drone brood in worker sized cell means a laying worker. To check if the queen has disappeared placed a frame with newly laid eggs from another colony into the brood box, if the queen is not present AND there is NO Laying workers, queen cells will be started. Ruary Rudd rrudd@tinet.ie ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 09:24:39 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tim Sterrett Subject: Re: SE Pennsylvania New Colony MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris Konopka wrote: > > and the last 2 frames were being worked on but not much was > accomplished yet--however, we added a 2nd deep hive body when we were > finished with 10 brand new frames, figuring that with such a large > population increase, it wasn't good to leave them in just 1 box- > -question: > did we do the right thing or will the bees now move to the new box and > forget about the 4 frames which need to be completed in the 1st box > > 2.we have noticed drone cells here and there (not many), but today > when we went in we noticed at the bottom of 2 or 3 frames a total > of 3 cells which could be the start of queen cells, but we are not > positive--they aren't as big as the queen cells I've seen in > pictures, but they are at the bottom of the frames and they are > somewhat bigger than drone cells--what should we do? > > 3. should we have put 2 frames from the 1st box which were drawn out > into the second box which we added? > You're doing fine and the bees are, too. 1) Adding the second hive body: The SE Pennsylvania honey flow is happening now as tulip poplars and locust trees are in bloom. In a month, the flow will be over. Your bees should draw out comb in the second hive body to have a place to store nectar. Left to themselves, they will draw the comb in the two hive bodies to make a spherical home for the colony, only squaring the corners as they run out of room. You can try to trick them into drawing and filling the outside frames by switching non-brood frames. The time to do this is during the honey flow. *** 2) Yes, the cells at the bottom could be the beginnings of queen cells. Bees often build these beginning cells. Your bees are not likely to swarm this season. If they do make queen cells and raise new queens, you may want to ask them why they are doing this before you cut out those cells. *** 3) Putting two partially-drawn-out frames into the new, second hive body: With a honey flow happening, you do not need to do this. By the time you read this, the bees have probably started working in the second hive body. *** Bees living in Pennsylvania are programmed to build comb, raise brood, and bring in nectar. What they are not programmed for is two kinds of mites and queens which slowly fail in autumn. Beekeepers have to treat for mites and should keep an eye on brood patterns in autumn. *** You may want to put out the word to all of your acquaintances that you are a beekeeper. Maybe some old bee equipment will come your way and you can start a second colony. Having more than one colony gives the beekeeper the chance to compare colonies and provides insurance (eggs) against the loss of a queen. Tim -- Tim Sterrett sterrett@voicenet.com (southeastern) Pennsylvania, USA 40.0 N 75.5 W ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 08:19:09 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Allen Dick: propolis on excluders In-Reply-To: <199905231402.KAA26162@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > I think that the observation of bees collecting wax or propolis is simply > robbing activity. Well, Garth is in a very different situation from most of us, and has different bees, so I'll take his word for it. Around here, I've *never* seen bees rob wax, and they have lots of opportunity. > As for getting propolis off excluders, I run mine through my paraffin > barrel which gets most of it off. This is the same barrel in which I cook > my woodware for 15 minutes each at about 250° in lieu of painting. That's good advice and I appreciate it. I've been looking at my excluders -- all 3,000+ of them -- and notice they are getting a fair build-up of wax. Normally, I ignore it, because if there is foundation on the hive, the bees will remove wax from the excluders to their satisfaction, and I tend to believe that the wax and propolis on the screens is what they want or it would not be there. (If there is no foundation in the hive, the hive will tend to get overly waxed up over time and some intervention by the beekeeper is required). But by now, wax is getting pretty thick on some of the excluders, and I was thinking of boiling those excluders to get the wax. Last time I did it about ten years ago, I got a nice little windfall in recovered wax . However, I am about to soak some new pallets in parrafin to preserve them (I don't care what the Australian study says, it works in Canada). Maybe I'll try throwing in some excluders to see how they look. We don't soak 15 minutes, about 3 or four is fine for us if the wax is just short of smoking. I'm afraid of cooking the wood. It is possible to change its colour -- sorta like french fries that have been cooked a little longer than usual (the way I prefer them). If the wood is dried right out and carbonized, I am afraid that I'll make it brittle and also shorten its life. Comments, anyone? allen ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 07:09:03 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: amy thomson Subject: Re: shotgun swarm retrieval In-Reply-To: <199905210103.VAA01759@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Try a hardware store with a good garden section, or a catalog like A.M. Leonard, or Lee Valley Tools to find pole pruners with telescoping poles. There is one out there that cuts and holds branches, though I suspect that it won't work on a thick branch. The standard pole pruner has a saw on it that you can remove if it gets in the way. On a thicker branch, you can hook the pole pruner over the branch and shake it to make the swarm fall. (As a newbee, I have not tried this!) It woudn't be too hard to rig a bag under the blade. Florian makes a racheting pole pruner that can cut through some pretty big branches. Amy Thomson > Telephone lineman have a tool that is in-effect a long telescoping >pole >made of fiberglass to keep it light enough to handle. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 07:59:10 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Last Call for Apimondia '99 Discounts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just a reminder if you are like me and have been putting it off... May 31st is the deadline for the pre-registration discounts for Apimondia '99* to be held this year in Vancouver, Canada. After that date, you can still register -- even at the door, I understand -- but the (considerably) discounted pre-registration prices will have expired. So, if you are planning to go, then be sure to go to http://www.apimondia99.ca/ and do what you have to do... allen (Who is in no way associated with the event) -- Allen Dick http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 08:49:37 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: BEE-L Posts, sci.agriculture.beekeeping, etc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In going through submissions to BEE-L, I notice that there are getting to be some pretty huge and unnecessary quotes from previous messages and massive signatures. Please cease and desist. I also notice some questions being asked that are *easily* answered from the archives. BEE-L is a forum for INFORMED discussion of beekeeping. That means you must do your homework before asking questions. Don't get me wrong. Bee-ginner questions are most welcome, but they should come after a little research does not solve the problem. BEE-L is not a chat forum. It is a moderated list that aims to have quality content. We don't wish to refuse any post, so I'm writing here to encourage participants to exercise their good judgement in posting. The goal is to keep the quality of the content up so that those who read the list get something worthwhile every time, and so that archive searches do not return junk and redundant material. sci.agriculture.beekeeping is a forum that accepts anything, and has no standards. I encourage all to visit it and read it. I do, when I have time. It is a good source of information and a good place to go for those don't want to meet BEE-L's standards. With the recent improvement of DejaNews's searches and newsreading (they even email you the posts if you want, much like BEE-L), sci.agriculture.beekeeping is much more useable, and their archives are very searchable. There is some overlap in participation btween BEE-L and sci.agriculture.beekeeping, and I do like to go there, but I frankly find some of the banter a waste of bandwidth that makes reading the group tiresome. Nonetheless there are some participants on sci.agriculture.beekeeping that never come here on BEE-L, and some of them make very worthwhile posts. Back to BEE-L: A case in point where homework should be done before posting to BEE-L is a question just received about using ziplok(r) bags for feeders. I can understand that there are some subjects that are hard to search because the best keywords might be elusive, but this one could be answered by a simple email to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU saying SEARCH BEE-L ZIP I searched --it took 1 minute to get a reply -- but I'm quoting only a *partial* list here. There were over 100 hits: ... Titles 006241 95/10/20 08:15 26 Re: Cheap In-Hive feeding 006242 95/10/20 09:03 43 Re: Cheap In-Hive feeding 006253 95/10/20 20:23 34 Re: Cheap In-Hive feeding 006254 95/10/21 08:59 22 Re: BEE-L Digest - 19 Oct 1995 to 20 Oct 1995 006256 95/10/22 16:44 22 Re: Cheap In-Hive feeding 006258 95/10/23 18:15 51 Re: Cheap In-Hive feeding 006437 95/11/10 11:15 32 Re: Addresses ... There are many good reasons to search before you post a question. One of the most important is that if the question has been well answered on the list, even years ago, the answers you get will often be from the least informed members, and those with time to waste. Those who took a lot of time to answer in depth the first time will usually sit by and wince, and involve themselves with new matters -- or even unsubscribe in boredom. That is not to say that after you have taken a few minutes to get up to speed by querying the LISTSERV, a new and fresh question on some detail that was not well explained, or on some new observation will not elicit good responses and add valuable info to the archives. Although questions are the basis for many of our best discussions, some memebrs also take the time to write essays on what they are doing and what they think and post them here for criticism and for the public good. You all know and appreciate those who do. We need more of these people and this type of input. Could you be one? I hope this note will be taken in the spirit in which it is intended, and that members will make good use of the archives, and continue to post intelligent question, comments, and observations -- after doing a little homework. Respectfully, allen http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 11:20:15 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Epi-Pen & Benadryl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here's a post that has sat in the moderators' inbox for quite a while due the fact that to the quoting of the entire previous (fairly long) post in addition to the part I am passing along. It was rejected for that reason and we requested a trimmed version and apparently it never came back. Since this post may be important to some, I am posting it. As you can see, it appears to come from me. It did not originate here though. FYI: Unfortunately -- due to the way LISTSERV works, the moderators cannot edit posts received -- even if they wanted to. They can either okay each post or reject it. If a post does not meet the guideleines and the original author does not resubmit it in an acceptable form, it dies -- unless a moderator feels it is sufficiently germane to take the time and effort to edit and post it under his own name. Then it appears under the moderator's name, not the author's. Some moderators wish to remain anonymous, so that means that, occasionally, good posts die because the originator will not or cannot meet nettiquette. --- My wife had a severe reaction to a sting last fall. We did the whole 911,trip to the emergency room thing. And they gave us (actually charged an arm and a leg)an epi-pen. But, their advise was to also take a full does of Benadryl at the same time you use the epi-pen. The epi-pen will control your reaction until the Benadryl takes effect. Then you need to get medical attention. My understanding is that epinephrine is dangerous stuff and you should be monitored until it has worn off, which takes a few hours. In fact, we spent hours in the emergency room simply waiting for the various drug to wear off. We haven't figured out how to get the desensitization yet, but that looks like the only long term solution. Name Witheld ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 20:31:02 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Epi-Pen & Benadryl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My understanding is that Benadryl syrup gets into your system a little faster than the pills which have to disolve in you stomache first. For you generic types Benadryl is dephenhydramine HCL. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 00:58:22 +1200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Organization: Bay of Plenty Polytechnic Subject: NZ Field Day report... I've created another 'virtual field day' page for the Bay of Plenty Branch's field day held a couple of days back. It contains photos and text describing the various speakers of the day and some of the equipment on display. You can find it at http://www.beekeeping.co.nz/bop (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- home nickw@beekeeping.co.nz (/ work nick.wallingford@boppoly.ac.nz NZ Beekeeping http://www.beekeeping.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 20:40:25 -0500 Reply-To: boby@lakecountry.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Young Subject: swarm removal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Faced with a swarm 20 feet up in a tree, I rigged a simple device to catch them. I took a 12 ft. joint of 1 1/2" PVC pipe, stuck my fishing net handle down in it and securely "duck" taped it to the pipe. I then put an old bed sheet in the net and taped it to make a crude bag. We then backed the pickup under the bees and stood in the back of the truck to get the additional height. I held the net under the bees and Dad gave the limb a good quick jerk with the hook of a pruning pole. Most of the bees went into the bag. It was a big swarm and the pipe bent a lot under the weight, but it worked perfectly. Bob Young Lindale,TX ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 13:12:03 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: Bees do gather wax Comments: To: lh@GET2NET.DK MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi All/Lars LLars, yyou menined hhaving seen bees gathering wax from an old excluder, but not from inside a hive. You als asked about myy comment that the bees use thhe second hand wax in cappings. I have observed bees gathering warm wax - it has to be quite chewable and they will gathher it - hence combs left in the sun will be chewed and dispoosed of. Combs inside a hive wont always as theyy don't get warm enough to be chewed. In areas where plant resins are in short supply (such as in the mountains of Lesotho) I have observed bees using mdified wax as a propolis source. I have some of these bees in my area now and have observed that they still produce this wax prpoolis, as opposed to the indigenous capensis who use plant resins more frequently. It is quite interesting!!! Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis 6139 South Africa Time = Honey ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 08:58:03 -0400 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Organization: ACB Dept., Univ of Michigan Subject: Re: Beeswax and Wiring Jig ???s MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bruce Guidotti wrote: > I am just trying Pierco for the first time this season on a package of bees I > just hived. > In the first week they made what seemed to me to be an inordinate amount of > free comb in the space where I hung the queen cage. > > Second week, they didn't draw out much more of the Pierco. A couple of observations: 1) Pierco has always worked great for me, but I have never tried it on a newly installed package. It really should be used on an established hive in a good honey flow. 2) When installing a package, it is unnecessary to hang the queen cage in. Just release the queen immediately, being sure she doesn't fly up. She will always be accepted because the colony hasn't yet established itself as a going unit. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 09:20:04 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: bill bartlett Subject: Rape (canola) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear beekeepers in UK, Just returned to the US from a lovely trip to the UK. I was amazed at the amount of rape (canola) that I saw. I looked at the fields when I had the chance, but did not see any bees. Most that I saw was passed peak bloom. The only bees that I saw were in the Kensington Garden in London. I wish that I had paid more attention to the past posts that were on the list some time back about the rape. Last time I was in the UK, about three years ago, I did see the bees working the fields of rape. It is my understanding that the government subsidizes the growing of the rape. Why? I saw no corn or soy beans. Why is there so much rape? Is it mainly used as fodder for cows and sheep? Is there a lot of oil made from the seed for frying oil and margarine? Is it just the area I was in that grows so much rape? (countryside of London and the Salisbury Plain) How about the honey? Do you get a good crop? Colour? (color). Any specifics? Rape sure does make beautiful fields of yellow. William A. Bartlett 19124 Lake Drive Leonardtown, Maryland 20650 Bartlett@us.hsanet.net 38.25 N, 76.60 W ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 11:28:36 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "C. Crowell" Subject: Re: Epi-Pen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It often seems that some people are confused as to what constitutes an "allergic" reaction to bee stings. Some people experience swelling following a sting, others do not. Some find that the swelling is not as great if they have been "sensitized" by previous stings. Everyone is capable of widely different reactions, each of which could conceivably be characterized as "allergic" reactions. For most people who are candidates for carrying an "epi-pen", the difference is usually this: they experience severe swelling which is capable of compromising their airway. If that swelling is untreated, they would suffocate, possibly within a few minutes. The epineprhine administered by the pen is capable of preventing that. It is entirely possible that in the spectrum of people with extreme reactions to bee venom there are some whose reactions are so severe that the compromising of the airway is not the primary threat, however that is the primary threat for most, according to the literature I read. Keep in mind that use of the epi-pen does not preclude a trip to an emergency room! Those with severe enough reactions to bee venom should consider the use of the pen, which must be prescribed, as a form of "advanced first aid" to be followed up by a doctor's examination. Last year in New Jersey EMT's were given authorization to administer epi-pens to patients carrying them provided the patient's name is on the device.The pen itself resembles a felt tip marker, with a protected needle on one end. You remove the protective covering, press the needle side against the patient's thigh and push. The medication is under pressure and is released and injected automatically. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 10:58:24 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: SoVerNet Verification (on garnet.sover.net) Plindena from arc0a311.bf.sover.net [209.198.83.219] 209.198.83.219 Mon, 24 May 1999 11:31:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Charles Frederic Andros Subject: Re: Allen Dick: propolis on excluders, paraffin cooking of woodware MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Allen, I was waxing yesterday and put in a thermometer. It read about 280°. That seems hot enough for me. I have not noticed any brittleness of the wood, only that it doesn’t crack or warp or rot. The paraffin is sucked into the pores on cooling, so only surface weathering is noted. As for the time of 15 minutes, that’s what they do in HI at Kona Queen. A longer dip sterilizes the wood completely, uses less wax, and leaves less wax on the surface, which can cause slippage. High moisture wood may shrink or warp during the process. Excluders do sink to the bottom and occasionally get a tinge of char where they rest in the propolis that also sinks. Filtering the paraffin through cloth over another barrel next to the hot one is a good idea from time to time. Another possibility is a metal rack to prevent excluders from reaching the bottom. I’m not sure why the Australians don’t like the waxing, (it's used extensively in NZ) but for termite areas, a copper napthenate soak and drying before waxing is recommended. Regards, Charles Andros Linden Apiaries since 1973 Former NH/VT Apiary Inspector '78-’89 1 McLean Road Walpole, NH 03608-0165 USA/EUA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 11:32:30 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "James C. King" Subject: Dipping Woodenware Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Allen Dick requested comments on dipping woodenware in paraffin. I have been dipping supers for use in eastern PA for about ten years. The receipe that I use is from a 1987 Speedy Bee article by Dwight Stoller. This involves using a 50/50% mixture of high melting paraffin and gum rosin heated to 300 degrees F. While the Stoller article suggests dipping twice for at least a minute, I have found that dipping once for at least one minute (60-75 seconds) provides excellent protection. After several years of use supers obtain a rustic appearance as the outside coating is lost. However the wood is still impregnated with the mixture. Some of my dipped supers have been in use for 10 years without deteroration. Jim King Riegelsville, PA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 08:56:07 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dave Malachy Subject: Re: SE Pennsylvania New Colony In-Reply-To: <199905231518.LAA26867@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I was wondering if the beehives are active at the White House on Pennsylvania Ave? Wouldn't that be interesting to get reports from the inner city there in Washington, DC? dm ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 10:56:45 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bonbee@AOL.COM Subject: Fwd: FGMO MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_a5d26d71.247ac2ad_boundary" --part1_a5d26d71.247ac2ad_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --part1_a5d26d71.247ac2ad_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-yh05.mx.aol.com (rly-yh05.mail.aol.com [172.18.147.37]) by air-yh01.mail.aol.com (v59.11) with SMTP; Mon, 24 May 1999 08:33:19 -0400 Received: from f04n01.cac.psu.edu (f04s01.cac.psu.edu [128.118.141.31]) by rly-yh05.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id IAA03473 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 08:33:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [146.186.6.5] (asi5.ent.psu.edu [146.186.6.5]) by f04n01.cac.psu.edu (8.8.7/8.6.12) with ESMTP id IAA161750 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 08:33:17 -0400 X-Sender: dbs8@mail.psu.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4fe83964.24776f3a@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 08:36:16 +0100 To: Bonbee@aol.com From: Diana Sammataro Subject: Re: Fwd: FGMO Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The grease does not allow mites to slip off??? This is tracheal mites I presume. The research I did and wrote about is a hamberger sized patty on the top bars in the fall and winter months. The grease, as far as we can tell, changes the smell or taste of the bee so the mite is fooled into thinking it is an older bee, and will not initiate host seeking behaviour. Diana Pennsylvania State University Bee Lab Department of Entomology 501 Agricultural Sciences and Industries Building University Park, PA 16802 Lab: (814) 865 2810 Fax: (814) 865 3048 Email: acarapis@psu.edu http://www.psu.edu/dept/beehive/index.html http://MAAREC.cas.psu.edu/ --part1_a5d26d71.247ac2ad_boundary-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 13:31:00 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BOGANSRJ@APCI.COM Subject: Carniolans/Races MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, I live in Eastern Pennsylvania, USA. I have both Carniolans and Italians. Italians seem to be more prevalent among beekeepers in this area, but I prefer Carniolans. When I order new queens I always order them. They seem to work well here, however I still have some Italian colonies that also work just fine. I don't requeen every colony, every year. I think my bees are becoming a mix of both races (if this is possible). I have noticed dark Carniolan queens heading up colonies that look like Italian bees. I have others where the bees are all very dark. My point is that a colony should be selected on its own merit. If a colony is cross, or does not produce, the queen will be replaced. If it is working well, then it is the one that I will use for queens and splits. I think you have to do what works in your area and just bring enough new stock in to keep the genetics diverse. I did try Starlines once. They were great and really produced, until the second year. Then they superseded and became very aggressive and had to be requeened. If you requeen every year then you should not have this problem. A long time ago I remember hearing or reading that in areas where a number of different races coexist there is really not that much cross breeding. Again, I don't know where I heard this but it apparently has something to do with the elevation at which drones fly. One race congregates higher than another. The queen would fly at the same elevation and would attract drones of the same race. Maybe someone on the list could confirm or disprove this. I just wish I could remember where this information came from. Ron Bogansky Kutztown (eastern) PA, USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 13:19:54 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: Bees do gather wax MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi All/Allen Allen you menioned not having seen the wax gathering activity I reported in your bees. This is very interesting. My bees switch to wax gathering in winter and during dearths!! Of course, in Canada bees are not thinking much about building cappings in winter, so as you say the observatioon is not rellevant to your locale. However, I am reasonably sure if you left a bunch of clogged excluders lying in a sunny spot near an apiary the bees would strip them of propolis and wax - and put them back on your clean excluders in the apiary. They need the heat too make the substances pliable. In central africa I have read of preists having hassles with A.m.adansonii stealing their wax candles from churches!! Of course the ambient temperature in the Congo is such that wax is pliable year round, day through night as well. Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis 6139 South Africa Time = Honey ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 15:25:26 -0400 Reply-To: John Sturman Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Sturman Subject: New Class on Apitherapy Internet Course! Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi bee friends, I am forwarding some mail that has just come across the Apitherapy list. I thought it is important enough to be broadcast to this list as well. If you have any interest in the many other uses of bees and their products, I heartily recommend this course. I have been participating in this class from the beginning and I can easily say that it has been worth my time and money to learn these aspects of Apiculture. Dr. Stangaciu is world-renowned for his expertise in Apitherapy and I cannot think of a better resource to be associated with. Best regards to all, John Sturman Blue Moon Farm Lexington, NY --------------- Forwarded message ------------------------------------------- Hello dear Apitherapy friends, We will start pretty soon another class on our Apitherapy Internet Course. This time it will be two groups, because many Spanish speaking people expressed their interest in the course. So, we have free places for both classes (English and Spanish) and hope to start soon in other languages too (French, German, Italian, Romanian, Turkish aso). Bee Informed, the best apitherapy magazine in the world, has written in one of its last issues: ..................... BIAPITHERAPY NEWS First Internet Apitherapy Course Underway On January 28, 1999, Dr. Stefan Stangaciu, AAS board member and webmaster, began an Internet apitherapy course with 22 students. The geographical area represented by these participants includes the US, Canada, England, Ireland, Columbia, Salvador, Chile, Argentina, Australia, New Zealand, Belgium, Netherlands and Turkey. After each of the three course levels, a period of free dialogue, questions and answers will take place, which will allow detailed discussions of several theoretical and practical aspects of apitherapy. All AAS members with Internet access, especially Network Members, are warmly invited to join this enthusiastic group of students. Write Stefan Stangaciu directly at apither@gmb.ro for more information on joining the course. ....................... This above group of 22 people has finished already the Second Level and it is currently in a short vacation. After the Third Level, they will be subjected to a complex theoretical examination (around 100 questions to be answered in less than 24 hours!). Those with 70% correct answers will pass the exam, receiving later the course's certificate. In my opinion, ALL "Apither"-List members should be, sooner or later, students in this course. Why? Because in only three months you will get all important information on apitherapy, and more than that, you will learn how and where to find the new ones. Our present lectors, and the ones which will come hopefully soon, will share with you the best of their knowledge. As graduates of this course, you, our future students, will be able to give better answers to the new comers in our excellent "Apither"-List, and of course to all your family members and friends; and, why not, in good cooperation with your local MD's, ND's, Acupuncturists, Homeopaths, Ayurveda specialists you will open some day your first Apitherapy Clinic!!! As far as I am concerned, I'll give you my full support for such wonderful projects! But, as the Americans says, "First things first"... So, if interested in joining the course, please write me a private message to: apither@gmb.ro or drstangaciu@apitherapy.com Best wishes for all of you! Stefan Stangaciu (MD, LAcup.) President of the German Apitherapy Society Webmaster and Board Member in the American Apitherapy Society Apimondia's Apitherapy Data Base Coordinator apither@gmb.ro drstangaciu@apitherapy.com www.gmb.ro/personal/apither www.sci.fi/~apither www.apitherapy.org www.apitherapy.com ------------- End Forwarded Message ------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 22:15:53 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: Allens comments on wood treatment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi All/Allen Allen, you mentioned you plan to treat your hive boxes by sort of frying them in parrafin of some sort. I have recently been trying to find a way of getting rid of a spore forming fungus for a local company and have found out some rather interesting things. If you have a fungus growing in wood it grows slowly. As it does so it sort of builds up a store of 'fungus nutrients'. If you kill this fungus by heating, other fungi just come and use up the nutrients - ie, the company I am dealing with autoclaves wooden pallets (food grade application so cannot use wood preservatives) for 24 hours at 121C and high pressure. Within 56 hours of coming out of the autoclave these pallets are full of viable spores again - ie the wood has been completely invaded again. A big waste of money. We have helped them with a temporary solution - if the pallets are sprayed with the fungicide - Vircon (if anybody wants its suppliers I can give them details) as soon as they come out, this reinvasion is prohibited. Further treatment with paint then stops recoloniaztion and because Vircon is FDA approved does not damage the products stored on the pallets. If one deep fries a hive body the chances of killing all spores by a 15 minutes submersion is reasonable if the oil is extremely hot. However if it is too hot, as Allen has mentioned, the wood becomes porous. A simple test would be as follows: Take a piece of fungus infected wood, place in oil for time usually used for a hive box. Remove the wood and place in a sterile jar and cover with tin foil. After five and ten days place a wort agar plate (Available as sterile preprepared plates from Difco or most breweries will give some out) in the jar for a while with the lid of for a few minutes and then put the lid back and incubate at room temperature for 5 days and ten days and score colonies formed - if you get any, the treatment did not kill the fungus and the wax could maybe be hotter. Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis 6139 South Africa Time = Honey ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 15:55:27 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: bill bartlett Subject: Fw: Bare hands. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Bare hands. >Dear Bee-Lers, > >Every sting that I ever got hurt to some degree! And so >many people worry about getting stung and therefore dress to >the hilt to prevent stings. It just seems to me that no >matter what you do, some how, some way, you are going to get >stung. So you should know what kind of reaction you are >going have. And what kind of reaction you are going to have >through the whole time that you keep bees. You just never >know what is going on inside your body when different things >enter your body. Spring is a good time to see how your >sensitivity is doing when you haven't been stung all winter. >Some people seem to do fine for years and then start having >bad reactions. > >If you feel that you must wear gloves then wear them. If >you want to try to work without them then try this. If you >have a hive that is gentle or they seem to gentle on some >day that you go into the hive, then try to remove just one >glove and work the bees for awhile like that. You will see >that you have a better feel for working the bees. And you >tend to be more careful when the gloves are off. Then of >course if all goes well then you take off the other glove. >Yes, it bothered me at first, but I will never buy any more >gloves. ( Sorry to all you glove makers) > >There are many times when I have worked my hives (10 to 15) >and did not get a sting. I would then grab one at the end >of the day and get a sting. I just think that a sting once >in awhile keeps the sensitivity down. > >And on another note: I would urge anyone who has arthritis >in your hands to try the bee stings. You are going to get >stung once in awhile anyway. Just find out where the pain >is the worst on the joints of your hands and put the bee >there to sting you. If you can't pick the bee up with your >fingers, then use a pair of tweezers to grab her. If you >already keep bees then this is free medicine. If you are >going to get stung anyway then you might as well try it. > >William A. Bartlett >19124 Lake Drive >Leonardtown, Maryland 20650 >Bartlett@us.hsanet.net >38.25 N, 76.60 W > > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 14:44:38 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Bees do gather wax In-Reply-To: <199905242036.QAA19906@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:19 PM 5/24/1999 GMT+0200, you wrote: Honey bees steal (or borrow) wax from one part of the hive to use in another = or at least that is the net result. We have seen bees during a heavy nectar flow tear down new foundation to repair and cap old comb. It like they decide to stop the new construction and focus on storing the harvest - and since space is limited, they use some of the comb that they were building to fix the old. Appears to be quicker to fix up existing comb than to finish building new comb. >Hi All/Allen > >Allen you menioned not having seen the wax gathering activity I >reported in your bees. > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 17:26:48 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: SoVerNet Verification (on garnet.sover.net) Plindena from arc0a111.bf.sover.net [209.198.85.111] 209.198.85.111 Mon, 24 May 1999 17:31:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Charles Frederic Andros Subject: Re: Garth's comments on wood treatment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Garth, Surface weathering is common with my 15 minute cook time, but inner dry rot is eliminated. I suspect only a mm. or 2 is subject to deterioration. There is no paint to chip off, and you can dip painted equipment, also. The paraffin seals the wood pores to moisture absorption. I haven’t painted for about 20 years! The woodware does not appear to suffer much, only the screaming fungi! Another point is the boxes are free of beeswax and propolis, and this method at a higher temperature kills AFB spores, as reported in the American Bee Journal last year, from Argentina. They used a hotter temperature than I do and cook frames from which diseased comb was cut. Regards, Charles Andros Linden Apiaries since 1973 Beekeeping Supplies Former NH/VT Apiary Inspector '78-’89 Residence: Latitude: 43° 05’ North, Longitude: 72° 21’ 15" West, Elevation 1200’ Keeper of 41 two-queen colonies for honey, pollen, propolis, pollination, nuclei, beeswax, apitherapy, and education ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 17:29:40 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: SoVerNet Verification (on garnet.sover.net) Plindena from arc0a111.bf.sover.net [209.198.85.111] 209.198.85.111 Mon, 24 May 1999 17:31:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Charles Frederic Andros Subject: Re: Jim King, PA: Dipping Woodenware MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Jim, I heard about using wax-rosin at Weaver’s in Texas, USA. They may have thought it helped adhesion for their wooden nuc feeders. I don’t think they use paraffin in HI. Is rosin cheaper than paraffin? I use 129° melting point paraffin from Walnut Hill Waxes in Bristol, PA. Where do you get your rosin? Regards, Charles Andros Linden Apiaries since 1973 Beekeeping Supplies Former NH/VT Apiary Inspector '78-’89 Residence: Latitude: 43° 05’ North, Longitude: 72° 21’ 15" West, Elevation 1200’ Keeper of 41 two-queen colonies for honey, pollen, propolis, pollination, nuclei, beeswax, apitherapy, and education ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 21:43:17 +1200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Organization: Bay of Plenty Polytechnic Subject: Re: Dipping Woodenware Annotated bibliography and comments on the use of paraffin wax dipping for both preservation and disease control from autoresponder. Send new msg (don't reply to this one!) to paraffin@beekeeping.co.nz (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- home nickw@beekeeping.co.nz (/ work nick.wallingford@boppoly.ac.nz NZ Beekeeping http://www.beekeeping.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 17:49:46 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jim & Sue Maus Subject: Re: Dipping Woodenware MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi I used to work with a commercial beekeeper here in Wisconsin. His preservation method was a lot of paraffin [20-25 gal] and he used "copper napthenate" (obtained from Dadant & Sons) he may have used 1 gal or so in the paraffin all the woodenware went in for 4 hours or so at 180* or so. Sure does stink but that woodenware will never rot and the bugs ants, termites, etc will never chew either. Never needs painting or maintenance. Never caused any problems with or for the bees. Just wanted to post for your info. Jim Maus West Bend WI ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 18:46:26 -0500 Reply-To: honeygar@sover.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: SoVerNet Verification (on garnet.sover.net) sover.net from arc0a314.bf.sover.net [209.198.83.222] 209.198.83.222 Mon, 24 May 1999 18:50:46 -0400 (EDT) From: "Todd D. Hardie" Organization: Honey Gardens Apiaries Subject: propolis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone have any advice on how to grind propolis into a fine powder, keep it from sticking together, and then mixing it into a solution with honey and other ingredients? We are working on a product using propolis and honey and do not want to use alcohol. Thank you. Todd D. Hardie Honey Gardens Apiaries 51 So. Maple St. Vergennes, VT 05491 tel. 802-877-6952 fax 802-877-6953 http://www.honeygardens.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 17:32:58 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Zee Byrd Subject: Cut comb vs. extracted honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I have been reading Roger Morse's book "The New Complete Guide To Beekeeping". In it he states that for cut comb honey, the placement of the second and subsequent supers is beneath the first filled super. The opposite is said of extracted honey - that the placement of the supers is above the first filled super. I had been told some time ago that supers were placed on the hive above the first 2/3 filled super. I've also read, I believe by George Imrie, that he places 5 supers on his hive at once. What order of placement of supers provides the best conditions for extracted honey? What order of placement provides the best "working environment" for the bees? _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 17:53:28 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Zee Byrd Subject: Re: Fw: Bare hands. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I agree 100% about not wearing gloves. I am a hobbyist beekeeper with 4 hives. The only time I wear gloves is when I have to retrieve a swarm - it's better to get the sugar water on the gloves than one's bare hands (stinky hands don't function as well as dry ones). Once I am ready to put the swarm into it's new home, I remove the gloves and go back to work barehanded. Most of the stings I receive on my hands are my fault - I grab a frame or a piece of equipment without checking for bees where my fingers are about to go. It also seems to me that stings on the finger tips hurt less than anywhere else - they also do not swell. Other parts of the body that receive stings produce minor swelling, limited to the site of the sting. In early spring, the swelling is large - by late spring, it is hardly noticeable. I get larger reactions from mosquito bites! I've also noticed that over the years (6 or so) in which I've kept bees that the reactions to stings seem to get less and less. There are different kinds of stings and different reactions. There are stings that feel like nicks from a splinter, hot needles, and just a stab from a plain needle. Some stings aren't even noticeable. None of them are unbearable. I would rather get stung on my fingers than anywhere else on my body as it seems other places hurt more when stung - so the gloves can go! I no longer wear a beekeeper's suit either. The supposedly sting proof suit that the manufacturer said bees could not hold on to because of the material it is made of is not sting proof. I had been stung a number of times through that suit. So, now I just wear helmet and veil and light colored clothing. I've been tested for sensitivity to honeybee venom. (I did this to satisy my husband - he insisted I was allergic due to the swelling I get early in the season.) I tested positively for a reaction to the venom. However, I had another blood test which tested for the amount of antibodies in my system to combat the venom. I tested at twice the amount necessary to protect me from bee venom. I do not know if this is because I work with the bees or if I was born with this amount of antibodies. (I have never been able to find any information about antibodies - i.e. how one acquires a certain amount, does it decrease over time or with age, etc. If anyone knows of a good source of info on antibodies, I'd appreciate knowing about it.) If I were to compare the number of stings I receive with full protective clothing to only light colored clothing and helmet and veil - I would say I get about the same. So, I'd rather be more comfortable and wear clothing that I prefer wearing - it makes for a more pleasant work-out at the beeyard. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 21:28:47 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Gothoney@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Fw: Bare hands. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit with a 100 hives, gloves enables you to work fast which is an argument in favor of using gloves because the hive is stressed less by working quickly. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 22:25:11 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: SoVerNet Verification (on garnet.sover.net) Plindena from tempa84.bf.sover.net [207.136.202.84] 207.136.202.84 Mon, 24 May 1999 22:27:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Charles Frederic Andros Subject: Re: Maus: Dipping Woodenware MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Jim, The reason to let the copper napthenate dry and then wax is so it gets a light coat of wax and the beekeeper doesn’t handle it, as it is toxic to man as well as termites, etc. Hive stands last longer with this treatment in the north. Charles Andros Linden Apiaries since 1973 Former NH/VT Apiary Inspector '78-’89 Walpole, NH 03608-0165 USA/EUA Residence: Latitude: 43° 05’ North, Longitude: 72° 21’ 15" West, Elevation 1200’ Keeper of 41 two-queen colonies for honey, pollen, propolis, pollination, nuclei, beeswax, apitherapy, and education ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 23:21:34 -0500 Reply-To: "David D. Scribner" Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David D. Scribner" Subject: Re: Cut comb vs. extracted honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Zee Byrd wrote: >I have been reading Roger Morse's book "The New >Complete Guide To Beekeeping". In it he states that >for cut comb honey, the placement of the second and >subsequent supers is beneath the first filled super. >The opposite is said of extracted honey - that the >placement of the supers is above the first filled >super. The placement of empty supers under those filled, or nearly filled, is called "bottom supering". The reasons behind bottom supering, if your goal is to harvest comb honey, is to minimize "travel stain". If you were to "top super" (placing empty supers on top of filled or partially filled ones), the honey bees, on their way to the empty super would travel (walk) across your freshly capped honey. Propolis stain would then be deposited from the bottom of the bee's feet onto the white cappings, staining them. If your comb honey is for presentation or sale, travel stain detracts from its cosmetic appearance. Bottom supering will also provide a little congestion relief above the brood chamber, as many beekeepers managing their colonies for comb production try to maximize colony population and minimize brood space to force the bees to "draw and fill" as quickly as they can. If you do bottom super, *especially* with drawn comb, a queen excluder is *highly* advisable or you'll just be inviting the queen to move up and lay eggs in the empty comb! >I had been told some time ago that supers were placed >on the hive above the first 2/3 filled super. I've >also read, I believe by George Imrie, that he places 5 >supers on his hive at once. >What order of placement of supers provides the best >conditions for extracted honey? Giving them enough storage space for honey as they need it. The reason for providing supers as the last one is nearing completion is to prevent the bees from chewing up the comb in the "excess" supers. Bees will do this occasionally (and especially with supers of foundation vs. drawn comb) if an over-abudance of supers are supplied at one time and the nectar flow is light. However, don't forget that bees need SPACE to evaporate down the nectar. Top supering allows the natural instincts of the bees to use the empty comb above capped honey storage for use in evaporating down the nectar being brought in from the field. The bees will usually bring the evaporated honey downward into the super they're filling when it's ready. That's also why drawn comb works best for top supering after a point... the farther up you go, the less bees seem to want to draw out frames of foundation. If that's the case, it's best to add those supers of foundation one or two positions above the brood nest for drawing. I would suggest hedging on an over-abundance of supers for honey storage if you can't determine (or time) their needs, or you'll miss the opportunity of maximizing your harvest. >What order of >placement provides the best "working environment" for >the bees? The answer is so varied, depending on hive strength, brood management, nectar flows, whether supers contain drawn comb or foundation, weather, etc. that I think you'll find it has a lot to do with your particular location, race or strain of honey bee being kept, etc. Experiment and find out what works best for your bees... that's half the fun of beekeeping! --David Scribner - Ballwin, MO, USA Niche on the Net! - ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 21:45:53 -0500 Reply-To: John Corley Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Corley Subject: two eggs per cell Comments: To: "Bee_L(mail)" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable One of my colonies recently superceded their queen. She started laying = eggs last week. Today I inspected her brood pattern, and it is good. = Except I noticed that on one frame of brood there were two eggs in most = of the cells. It is just that one frame. I couldn't lay eyes on the = queen, but my first instinct is "two queens" I am relatively new to = beekeeping, so any ideas or comments would be appreciated. Thanks, John Corley jcorley@c-gate.net http://www.c-gate.net/~jcorley ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 20:23:16 PDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Re: dipping woodware MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I believe I should come to the defense of us maligned Australians and I would hope that those reading this will see it as "informed" comment. The first written word that I read came from research in the USA in the later 70's. It stated that wax dipping did not preserve wood ware used in beekeeping against decay. I started looking, with a collegue, at bee box preservation in 1979 and first published on this in 1980. Some points to consider in this deabte are. Firstly, if you are not in a decay hazard area, you don't have to treat wood ware. There is no risk. Beekeepers in Australia first saw wax dipping in New Zealand, However, when they came back to Australia they did not include the copper naphthenate. So, the boxes they dipped did not stop decay (rot). The areas where these hives were is a high decay hazard area. Another factor in this debate is what is the natural durability of the timber. If it has high natural durability, then it will not need any treatment to stop rot. Those who use copper naphthenate are getting the preserving factor from the copper and not the wax dipping. Also, in Australia, copper naphthenate does not afford any protection against termites (white ants) and all text books will say the same. I personally have hives treated with copper naphthenate that have been severely degraded by termites. It depends on how vicious the termites are. Here in Australia, there is one species of termites which are recorded as eating billard balls on a billard table. As for the heat sterilising the timber in the wax dipping process, it could be the case but it affords no protection against re-infestion by the fungus. There was an article in Bee Biz on the Plato process but I believe it is still experimental at this time. So in summary, wax dipping alone affords no long lasting protection to low durability timbers against fungal attack in medium to high decay hazard areas nor termite attack against aggressive termite species. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 04:44:14 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Zee Byrd Subject: Re: Fw: Bare hands. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii In what way do gloves enable you to work fast? I have found it to be just the opposite. The gloves just seem to get in the way and make for clumsy fingers. I am quite interested in learning how they help you work faster - it is good to hear another person's viewpoint. --- Gothoney@aol.com wrote: > with a 100 hives, gloves enables you to work fast > which is an argument in > favor of using gloves because the hive is stressed > less by working quickly. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 08:26:19 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pollinator@AOL.COM Subject: Re: two eggs per cell Comments: To: jcorley@c-gate.net, BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 99-05-25 07:12:00 EDT, jcorley@c-gate.net (John Corley) wrote: << One of my colonies recently superceded their queen. She started laying = eggs last week. Today I inspected her brood pattern, and it is good. = Except I noticed that on one frame of brood there were two eggs in most = of the cells. It is just that one frame. I couldn't lay eyes on the = queen, but my first instinct is "two queens" I am relatively new to = beekeeping, so any ideas or comments would be appreciated. >> New queens sometimes take a bit to "get the hang of it." I would not be particularly concerned. Check them again in about two weeks and she'll probably be fine. This is very common with new queens. Now, with old queens, that's a different story... If the queen actually is defective, the bees are apt to make supersedure cells. I would just let them replace her and keep an eye on them to make sure the new one gets mated. If they dwindle, give them a frame of sealed brood. If there is any doubt about mating success, give them a frame with a few eggs on it. Dave Green SC USA The Pollination Home Page http://www.pollinator.com The Pollination Scene http://members.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop on the Internet (honey & beeswax candles) http://members.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 06:07:45 PDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: dave general Subject: hybrid debate Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; Hello Allen/All, Variation is the bane and the boon of the breeder and the geneticist, as the textbooks say. Without variation, there would be no scope for improvement or change. Breeders and geneticists would lose their jobs! Even the most controlled breeding techniques still allow a certain degree of variation. This is because the genes on the chromosomes independently sort themselves as the the gametes are being produced. Nature has built in many different ways of ensuring that the next generation is different from the present one. That's why this year's bees are different from last year's, in any locality or context. Regards, Dave General Cagayan de Oro City Philippines 8.29N 124.39E ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 09:14:06 -0400 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Organization: ACB Dept., Univ of Michigan Subject: Re: Fw: Bare hands. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Zee Byrd wrote: > In what way do gloves enable you to work fast? I have > found it to be just the opposite. The gloves just > seem to get in the way and make for clumsy fingers. ... > > --- Gothoney@aol.com wrote: > > with a 100 hives, gloves enables you to work fast > > which is an argument in > > favor of using gloves because the hive is stressed > > less by working quickly. In my experience (also with about 100 hives), I find truth in both writers' comments. I love to work without gloves, but certainly don't find that I work faster - only more carefully. I don't mind stings, especially on the fingers, but I don't go looking for them either. So with bare hands, I work slowly, and I think my hives are much less stressed by being open a bit longer. When I work with gloves, no matter how hard I try to be gentle I always seem to crush or roll more bees (the gloves *are* clumsy) - and I think this produces more stress to the hive than being quietly open longer. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 07:05:34 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: dipping woodware In-Reply-To: <199905251113.HAA01926@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Firstly, if you are not in a decay hazard area, you don't > have to treat wood ware... Another factor in this debate > is what is the natural durability of the timber. If it > has high natural durability, then it will not need any > treatment to stop rot... As for the heat sterilising the > timber in the wax dipping process, it could be the case > but it affords no protection against re-infestion by the > fungus... So in summary, wax dipping alone affords no long > lasting protection to low durability timbers against fungal > attack in medium to high decay hazard areas nor termite > attack against aggressive termite species. Thanks to all for the many contributions to this debate. We now seem to be answering questions that have bothered me for many years. In the above (condensed) quote, Trevor identifies clearly the reasons for disagreement on the matter: we all have different assumptions, and needs. I notice that Garth's notes also mentioned rot and fungus. Trevor mentions ants and termites. None of these are a real problem here. Trevor also mentions the original quality of the wood. Obviously we have a whole kettle of variables here and I can see why what is obvious to one group is less than obvious to another until we all state our assumptions. What we assume in my part of Alberta Canada, apparently cannot be assumed elsewhere. For me the main problem is weathering of the wood. I have only little problem with rot -- after years -- where the pallets touch the ground. There is also some small risk of rot where the boxes and pallets touch one another if that area is allowed to accumulate dead bees, etc. The former is prevented somewhat if the pallets are moved from time to time and are not permitted to settle into the earth. In our climate, wood dries out and weather-checks badly. The latter is prevented by cleaning the floors by scraping from time to time. The wood we use is primarily spruce. It tends to dry and split and loses strength over time. In the absence of wood ants and termites, and with a wood that dries out, a wax coating has great benefits. The wax also does seem to prevent rot where the wood touches other wood and moisture and dirt might tend to accumulate, such as parts of the structure where boards are nailed together. Plywood tends to check and fall apart over time when untreated. Either a good coat of paint or wax dipping extends the life very greatly here in my area. I believe that the wax treatment actually lasts longer. Our pallets are made of spruce boards and plwood. Once again, we are dealing with a question with an answer that depends largely on where one lives. For me, wax preserves my woodenware. On the subject of AFB, I don't think that it is necessary to actually kill the spores to prevent reinfection. Being submerged in hot wax seems to disable AFB spores sufficiently that chances of re-infestation are nil, AFAIK. We had a long discussion of this in the past. I don't know if we ever did establish whether the wax in foundation making is heated enough to kill all spores ot that the spores are present or not in foundation. Nonetheless, I have never heard an AFB outbreak attributed to spores in foundation wax. Maybe I will now? allen ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 13:07:04 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Keeler, Lisa" Subject: Re: Fw: Bare hands. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain As a newbee ( 3yrs) I'm very curious how everyone who works gloveless and suitless succeeds in not upsetting and annoying the bees in the first place. My bee tend to be annoyed when I open the hive and as soon as I start prying out a frame they are all over the frames and it is impossible to grab anything without getting a bee and getting stung. Is it just smoke (which I don't use)? Some writers don't use smoke at all. I wish there was a way to learn about just basics of how to handle the bees and frames. Both my mentors use gloves and just dive into the hive without concer for gentler ways. Lisa Keeler Zionsville IN ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 14:02:49 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Darrell Laney Organization: Microsoft Corporation Subject: Re: Fw: Bare hands. From: Keeler, Lisa Both my mentors use gloves and just dive into the hive > without concer for gentler ways. Find new mentors------and use a little smoke, it dilutes the alarm pheromones and causes the bee to gorge on honey, lessens the chances of you getting stung. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 15:07:15 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: bill bartlett Subject: Bare hands MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think that in an earlier post I neglected to mention that I did use smoke. It does seem to take very little smoke though. If you watch the bees and when you smoke them they go down off the top bars. As you are working you will notice that they start to congregate back near the top bars and there are a lot of eyes looking at you. Another puff of smoke will send them back down. There is a little story that I do believe a little. Just as with horses and dogs and other animals they seem to be able to sense that you are afraid. Maybe the bees do too. We know they can smell because they use a few pheromones in their life which they can smell. Better try a little smoke. I think you will be happier. William A. Bartlett 19124 Lake Drive Leonardtown, Maryland 20650 Bartlett@us.hsanet.net 38.25 N, 76.60 W ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 14:21:05 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Warren Otto Subject: Re: Fw: Bare hands. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am also 3 yr beekeeper and have never used protective equipment other than a helmet and veil (I got stung in the eye once and didn't like it, but surprisingly it never swelled up). Most of the time I handle the bees in shorts and a t-shirt. I find that long pants are too warm and most times when I have a long sleeved shirt on a bee will climb under the cuff and sting me when the I move my wrist and the cuff comes down on the bee. I tried duct taping the shirt closed but my hands and wrists get all sweaty. I find that a little bit of smoke calms the bees and makes them very easy to work with. Smoke masks my scent and the bees are too concerned with the hive to bother those going into it. There are beekeepers here who don't even use the veil, but I am not that brave. Warren Otto "Keeler, Lisa" wrote: > As a newbee ( 3yrs) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 07:42:04 +1200 Reply-To: "bryan@honeynz.co.nz" Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bryan Clements Organization: Waikato Honey Products Ltd. Subject: Re: dipping woodware and gloves MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Allan Dick wrote On the subject of AFB, I don't think that it is necessary to actually kill the spores to prevent reinfection. Being submerged in hot wax seems to disable AFB spores sufficiently that chances of re-infestation are nil, My experience in NZ is that all hives have AFB spores but only when they get to a critical level do the clinical symptoms show and the hive breaks down. On that basis the covering and or diluting of the spores will inhibit the spread but I assure you that it is not permeant. We don't feed any anti biotic or drugs and I promise you gear that is not heated to 160c for at least 10 minutes will eventually break down. We are also confident that this break down is not cross infection from another source. We have seen it happen to many times, If the wax is to cold or it is not in for long enough, you can expect trouble. If covering the spores is the aim and not treating timber, why not soak the gear in sodium Hypochlorite at 0.05% with water for 20 minutes as this kills AFB. Remember bleach degrades in sunlight so you can not make the mix last for ever. On the matter of gloves, I have staff that work 4000 hives with out gloves but my personal preference is gloves as I can move much faster but there is a down side the guys don't like working hives next to were I am raising a "storm". On the matter of dipping. If the wood is not bone dry do not dip in wax. Put the new box's out on the hives for one season and dip them next works well. Bryan Clements Waikato Honey Products Ltd www.honeynz.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 13:57:21 -0600 Reply-To: fltdeck1@ix.netcom.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Matthew Subject: Re: Bare hands - learners method from a 'learner' MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Hi Lisa & all, Without smoke to hide our presence, the bees are great teachers on how to handle "their" hives. As soon as you give up your smoker you'll discover your bees are quite excited and wary on every slight motion. The bees watch with careful gaze as if transfixed on the enemy approaching. Best results (for me) are had by first cracking open the inside cover without removing any frames for 30 seconds or so - letting them get acclimated to an intruder. Next I'll approach by moving my hands in slightly exaggerated motion with care to keep my arm from covering the hive. The idea is to show my hands and movements to all the 1000's of 'scared' little eyes and make sure they know what I'm up to. They seem to have patience if you give them a few seconds to let them know you're not killing or destroying their hive. Of course, the bigger hives are much less forgiving and a small mistake will send a bunch out to greet anything moving or breathing. If you don't wish to suffer the multiple stings in learning to work your hives without smoke, go out and buy some neoprene work gloves - the ones which look like heavy-duty dish gloves. They fit tight, are almost sting-free and will get you used to the movements which will be tolerated. Matthew Westall -working my smaller hives without smoke > Is it just smoke (which I don't use)? Some writers don't use > smoke > at all. I wish there was a way to learn about just basics of how to > handle > the bees and frames. Both my mentors use gloves and just dive into > the hive > without concer for gentler ways. > > Lisa Keeler > Zionsville IN // Earthling Bees >8(())))- "Take me to your feeder" \\ Castle Rock, CO, USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 16:30:36 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: William G Lord Subject: dipping alternative Comments: To: bee-l@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Bee liners, I posted this some years back but it bears repeating given all the discussion on dipping. The Forest Products Lab of the U.S. Forest Service published this recipe some years back for a NON TOXIC WATER REPELLENT/WOOD PRESERVATIVE, and I have used it with great success. It is a home-made version of what you U.S. readers know as Thompson's Waterseal, made on the cheap. Exterior grade polyurethane (oil based) 3 cups paraffin or beeswax 1 ounce Mineral spirits (paint thinner) add to make 1 gallon Melt the beeswax (microwave or double boiler), add to the premixed polyurethane and mineral spirits and you have it. I actually add 2-3 ounces of beeswax, enough so the mixture is cloudy on cool mornings. You can dip your woodenware or use a garden sprayer and spray it on. You get the benefit of wax without the danger of melting large quantities. Granted you do not get heavy wax impregnation, but it really helps preserve the wood. It also works on decks and bare wood siding. I highly recommend it. Bill Lord -- William G Lord Area Specialized Agent, Environmental Education E-Mail : wglord@franklin Internet: wglord@franklin.ces.ncsu.edu Phone : 919-496-3344 Fax : 919-496-0222 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 15:26:56 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: De Witt Subject: Re: Fw: Bare hands. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It sure would be nice to find a mentor. I asked at both of the Associations that I belong to for someone to come and look at my hives to see what shape they are in and give advice. In both groups I was told "....That's OVER 30 MILES. None of us can go that far!! So I have one hive thriving about half done with it's second super and one that still hasn't filled the two frames of foundation I replaced the feeder with much less work on the super. Both acquired the same day both feed like crazy 1/2 gallon of syrup a day. > Find new mentors------and use a little smoke, it dilutes the alarm > pheromones and causes the bee to gorge on honey, lessens the chances of you > getting stung. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 17:09:08 -0400 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Organization: ACB Dept., Univ of Michigan Subject: Re: Fw: Bare hands. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Keeler, Lisa wrote: My bees tend to be annoyed when I open the hive and as soon as I start prying out a frame they are all over the frames and it is impossible to grab anything without getting a bee and getting stung. Is it just smoke (which I don't use)? Yes, Lisa, you need to use smoke. As everyone else says, you don't need much, but the correct way to work bees is to give a puff at the entrance, wait a minute or more, and give another puff when you first start prying off the inner cover. That should be all you need. Then you can gently move the bees aside after the frame is loosened, and pick it up usually without getting stung. They may fly up and bounce off your wrist, may even land, but then seem to forget what they had in mind to do. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 17:14:59 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Kevin D. Parsons" Subject: Re: Fw: Bare hands. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > Some stings aren't even noticeable. None of > them are unbearable. I would rather get stung on my > fingers than anywhere else on my body as it seems > other places hurt more when stung - so the gloves can > go! Interesting. Stings on my finger tips are among the worst. I get intense pain at the site and often feel it shooting up my arm. After a minute or two it passes, but it was quite startling the first time it happened. The swelling and subsequent reaction are minimal, but that intial reaction gets my attention. I still prefer to work barehanded and normally do. But, if I get a really mean hive, either because of my inept handling or because that's how they are today, it's a lot easier to close them back up if I have a pair of gloves nearby. Wouldn't life be boring if we were all alike? Kevin D. Parsons Pittsburgh PA USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 18:02:20 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Smoke MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The responses I have seen to Lisa's questions concerning gloves have been excellent, especially those concerning smoke. When I started beekeeping, in the mid-1960's, dealers carried smoke in an aerosol can. It was an excellent product and I have no idea why it is no longer generally available. (I am aware it is available from Canadian dealers, imported from England I believe, but personally I wouldn't use it without knowing why it was taken off the US market.) With only a few hives to work, I didn't hesitate to use the can. For many years I was using the smoker less and less. That was somewhat because I produce comb honey and didn't want any chance of putting cinders on the comb, but mostly because I got lazy about lighting the smoker and keeping it going. I got acclimated to working the bees while taking stings, but have to say I never really liked it. Last year I was talking to Sue Cobey about her incredibly gentle Carnolians, and how she will work them (sometimes) without a veil, and how I would stand beside her...also without a veil. She pointed out that this was only possible because there was a strong flow, but then said approximately "the real secret is smoke." "I'll work my bees in a bikini, but I have to have smoke as just a little makes all the difference in the world." That started me thinking and for the rest of 1998 and during 1999 I have forced myself to light up the smoker. It really works. Just a little smoke, blown across the bees, not directly on them, calms them tremendously. I am amazed at what I was missing for 20 or so years; good use of smoke makes all the difference in the world! Try it Lisa, and use it sparingly as I think part of my problem so long ago was that I used far too much and made the bees angry instead of calming them! Lloyd Lloyd Spear Owner, Ross Rounds(tm). The finest in comb honey production. http://www.rossrounds.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 21:10:03 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Al Lipscomb Subject: Mentors Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Many people would like to have a mentor show them the ropes of beekeeping. While a lot of us do not have the experience to take on an official "apprentice" we can learn from each other and sometimes just having someone to put a second set of eyes on a situation is nice. That being understood if anyone is near the Tampa/St Petersburg area in Florida and would like a hand getting started, then just drop me a line. When I was getting started several people were good enough to help me out and I would welcome the chance to do the same for others. Al Lipscomb arl@suncoast.org 1275 4932 DFA1 97EB D3A1 903D 7563 2936 A66B 86B3 MCSE AA4YU ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 21:15:10 -0500 Reply-To: lkrengel@mc.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Larry Krengel Subject: smoke MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Keeler, Lisa" wrote: Is it just smoke (which I don't use)? Some writers don't use smoke at all. Lisa - Smoke makes a beekeepers life so much simpler. The trick I learned with time was to know how much smoke is needed. I seldom open a hive without smoke for crowd control. Usually little is required, but I smash a lot fewer bees when I can encourage them to go down inside before I handle frames, replace inner covers, etc... The bee brush is not as effective. I try to be gentle with the hives, and usually the bees respond by being gentle with me. Time is the teacher; the bees are the members of the class. I encourage the nubees around here not to just smoke, but to learn to smoke wisely. A strange question for the list - I talk to my bees while I work them. Do others do this? How do the bees respond? It might be that talking is therapy for me and not noticed by the bees... but I do anthropomorphize my bees. Larry Krengel Marengo, IL USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 19:30:27 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Gothoney@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Fw: Bare hands. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit enter the hive only on warm days, in mid day with the sun out as much as you can because the older foraging bees are crankier ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 22:26:53 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "CHARLES S. MCMARROW" Subject: queen cages I have heard that there is a new type of queen cage that presses into a frame of comb and allows a new queen to begin laying before a colony of bees can reach her. I have not heard the name of the device or where I could obtain it, but conceptually it has gained my interest. Any help that could be provided in identifying / obtaining one would be greatly appreciated. Thank you Chuck McMarrow Carroll, Ohio USA 2nd year bee keeper, 7 colonies DOCTORMAC@JUNO.COM ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 07:06:45 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Fw: Bare hands. Comments: To: De Witt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT De Witt writes: > It sure would be nice to find a mentor... to come and look at my hives ... > In both groups I was told "....That's OVER 30 MILES. None of us can go that far!! I find it hard to make the time to go to others' hives to mentor new beekeepers, whether it's 30 miles or only 3. I have enough to do keeping up with the needs of my own hives, let alone tend others. I routinely offer mentor services to those willing to come and help with my hives, free advice for free help. It's rare that those who want me to come to their hives are willing to come to mine. Aaron Morris - thinking free advice for free help in upstate New York! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 19:27:12 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Gothoney@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Fw: Bare hands. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don't find gloves clumsey and with them I forget about pinching or accidentally provoking them to sting which otherwise causes me to work slower to avoid the stings. I open the hive, make my moves, medicate, examine, and close up very quickly. Stings hurt. I derive no machismo satisfaction from a sting. I am slightly allergic. Stings cause swelling unless I get them off quickly. Gloves allow me to focus on what I want to do and if a few bees get crushed along the way I justify it by believing that I stress them less by handling them more quickly. Despite wearing gloves, with 100 hives I still manage to get 5-10 a year. I believe there is roomin this wonderful craft for differences of opinion. The honey tastes the same! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 08:31:57 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Keeler, Lisa" Subject: Re: Bare hands Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Bill Bartlett wrote: > There is a little story that I do believe a little. Just as > with horses and dogs and other animals they seem to be able > to sense that you are afraid. Maybe the bees do too. We > know they can smell because they use a few pheromones in > their life which they can smell. > You bet they can sense fear. As a bug-o-phobe I sometimes forget that as a scientist everything is facinating to study! Whenever I am hit by a wave of panic the bees are on me very quickly. Sometimes I have to walk away to get me and the bees back into a proper mental state. Lisa Keeler Zionsville IN ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 07:46:03 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: eabell Subject: Re: Fw: Bare hands. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > It sure would be nice to find a mentor. I asked at both of the Associations > that I belong to for someone to come and look at my hives to see what shape > they are in and give advice. In both groups I was told "....That's OVER 30 > MILES. None of us can go that far!! But you can go to them. I suggest that it is rare that any beekeeper would look unkindly on your offer to 'come along' to help, to provide company, and to ask questions. You will learn a lot more visiting a number of colonies than you will if a beekeeper was to visit your 2 hives. Eric & Marnie Abell Box 87 Gibbons, AB T0A 1N0 Canada Phone/fax (780) 998 3143 eabell@compusmart.ab.ca ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 10:11:40 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Automatic Entrance Reducers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I suppose the ideal would be an entrance reducer that opens and closes depending on the weather, and I suppose that such a thing exists. But, even if it does, it would be costly, bulky and and unsuited to commercial beekeeping. The next best thing is a reducer that the bees can remove themselves when they are strong enough and the weather is right. We have come up with such an item. We cut old cardboard into stips about 2-1/2" x 13-1/2" and fold it in half along the long axis. This makes a V shaped reducer that can be slipped -crease first -- into any entrance regardless of height and which will stay there due to the spring action of the paper. When the bees decide it is time, they just chew it out. We've used masking tape too, but it tends to be hard to use. We sometimes use duct tape, but the bees cannot easily remove it, and it sometimes does not stick. This is the best so far. http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 12:08:03 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: Transporting queen cells Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi All: There has been some interesting discussion about requeening using queen cells. I have also noted though some posts (I think by Dave Green) mentioning that there is a certain time that the queen larvae are very delicate. What exactly is the time period (days from grafting) when the larvae are delicate? What methods do people use for transporting queen cells during the day from yard to yard? I just finished moving hives into blueberries last night. The early date is a record around here. They burst into bloom overnight practically because of some unusually warm weather. I moved nearly 900 hives in five nights. I know that is probably not a big amount for some people, but I was pretty pleased. The method used was lifting them, not on pallets, but on straight hive stands that hold five hives in a line (as I described once before). In a couple of weeks when I am moving them off the berries I will take a couple of pix and mail them to Allen for his transport page. Regards, Stan ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 14:18:51 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Greg Hankins Subject: Re: Fw: Bare hands. In-Reply-To: <199905251843.OAA10700@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" A newbie (3 years) myself, I always try to work gloveless, for reasons already cited here. Makes me more careful and I squash fewer bees. I always keep the gloves in my back pocket, just in case. I've had much more success since reading Tom Sanford's Tao of Smoking piece in the APIS newsletter a couple of months back. Now I typically smoke the entrance, wait 2 minutes, loosen the cover enough to smoke a little up top, wait another minute, and then proceed. I also find that happy bees, gathering nectar on a warm day, don't much seem to notice intrusions. Screening up entrances at night for a recent move I found the same bees very very nasty. Greg ______________________________________________________________ Greg Hankins Seven Lakes Times, L.L.C. ghankins@ac.net P.O. Box 602 Voice: (910)673-0111 1008 Seven Lakes Drive Fax: (910)673-0210 Seven Lakes, NC 27376 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 11:46:46 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Zee Byrd Subject: Neighbors and bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Today my neighbors came over and talked to my husband about my bees. (Nice guy that he was (my husband) - he told them to come back and talk to me when I got home!) They say that my bees are bothering them while they are in their veggie garden, visiting their pond, etc., etc., etc. I have 4 hives, which I've had for 6 years. The first 3 years, the bees were closer to my house (on our half acre of property). During those 3 years, the neighbors did NOT even know I had the bees. Unfortunately, my husband wanted me to move the bees to the back of the yard - I don't remember why. But, currently, there is a new structure in their original location, so they cannot be moved back (The new structure was not immediately placed there at the time the bees were moved). Prior to getting the bees 6 years ago, I did check with the county to make sure I could have them - they said that my property was zoned for it, so I went ahead and got them. Now, the problem - I have nowhere else on my property where I can move the hives. I do not want to move them to anyone else's more isolated property, nor do I have the option of doing so. The hives are located at the back corner of my property, which is about 6 feet from their veggie garden. The hives are enclosed on 3 sides by a wooden stockade fence, which was placed intentionally to keep the bees out of the neighbors' way. I have a pond and bird bath in my yard, which the bees frequent. Evidently, the bees also like the neighbor's pond and visit it frequently - and I know I cannot stop them from doing so. These neighbors have more than enough people in their house - grandparents, parents, children, dogs, cats and who knows what or who else. They also have a large in-ground swimming pool (not sure if the bees have been accused of visiting that as well). I have seen the young children in their family playing on the swings which are also near the bees - I have never once seen the kids scream or show fear of the nearby bees - but I can't say that I watch them all the time. I don't think the kids were mentioned - I think it is one or two particular adults in the family complaining. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I can neighbor-proof my bees and make my neighbors happy at the same time? Would a stockade fence high enough along our property line help keep the bees out of their "hair" in the garden? How high should the fence be in order to force the bees to not fly at face level in their garden area? Would trees of some kind (which would not be as immediate a solution) along the property line help? Any trees in particular (I live in Maryland, about 15 miles southeast of Baltimore.) However, I think I would actually prefer the fence as it might be easier and quicker to put up. Giving the neighbors honey is NOT the solution. I gave them a jar or two a few years ago and they promptly gave it to someone else (I was told about this). So, they aren't honey-lovers. How do I handle this situation without angering them further? I do want to keep the peace AND my bees at the same time. Zee _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 19:43:49 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: P-O Gustafsson Subject: Re: queen cages MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "CHARLES S. MCMARROW" wrote: > I have heard that there is a new type of queen cage that presses into a > frame of comb and allows a new queen to begin laying before a colony of > bees can reach her. http://www.algonet.se/~beeman/biodling/req.htm for a picture of the cage. P-O ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 13:46:49 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: queen cages In-Reply-To: <199905261909.PAA05668@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 07:43 PM 5/26/1999 +0200, you wrote: The push in cage shown in the web page picture is nice. However, a similar cage can be made from stiff screen (in the U.S. this screening is called hardware cloth). You want a mesh size small enough to keep the bees out and the queen in, but large enough so that the bees can interact with the queen through the mesh. Common window screening is too flexible, soft, and the holes are too small, which is why we use hardware cloth. Just cut out a rectangle and fold the wire to form sides that can be pressed into the comb. Be careful to make neat corners that close tightly and don't leave sharp ends of wire that the queen could encounter and injure herself. Make the sides long enough to give the queen some head space + enough additional to push the wire mesh solidly into the comb. Leave enough space above the queen so that she can avoid any worker that might try to sting her, but don't leave any more than necessary. The size of the rectangle is not important, but it should be large enough to cover a number of open cells so that she can lay eggs. I like to include a corner of cells with nectar or honey - but that is my own personal bias. I know that queens can feed themselves, despite claims to the contrary. I speculate that it might be useful for her to be able to do this. Also, if the queen is really attractive to the bees, they may "pull" the push in cage out of the comb. The weight of the bees causes it to begin to slide out. For insurance, we run a fine wire through the top mesh and around the frame and twist it tight. In rare occassions, I have seen colonies tearing away comb to get to the queen. In this case, they usually kill the queen when they reach her. We have large commercial bee operations running 1200 or more hives that have used this approach for several decades - so the plastic cage may be new, but the concept has been around for a long time. >> I have heard that there is a new type of queen cage that presses into a >> frame of comb ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 22:33:06 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Subject: bees at school Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi all - I received this mail and I'm posting it here for Jennifer Cox. Could anyone who has experience with keeping bee hives at a school please contact her. Regards, Barry ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Hi there - I live in Nashville, Tennessee, and have been asked by the > school I teach at to consider setting up some working hives - not inside > observation ones - on our campus. Do you folks know of any schools with > similar setups? I would like to make some contacts and find out what > they have done to secure the site location. > My school is a private 5th through > 12th grade school, all girls. (You can visit us at www.harpethhall.com) We > have a 35-acre campus, and I have been scoping it out these past few days, and > there are some wonderfully isolated places where we could set up a few hives, > fence them in, and have some fun. The hope is to offer something to reach > some of the students who aren't the sports type, who really might like > something like this. > > I would appreciate your posting this inquiry wherever. > > Many thanks, > > Jennifer Cox > jacox@isdn.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 16:02:36 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mark Gosswiller Subject: Queen in a swarm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Can anyone tell me: when a hive swarms, does the OLD queen leave with part of the hive before the NEW queen has emerged from her cell or is it after the new queen has emerged. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 10:37:36 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Max Watkins Subject: Re: allergy to bee venom MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit As Jorn says, beekeepers and bee scientists who regularly get stung often DO become sensitized to bee venom - I've talked to many of them in Europe. Often it's triggered by one sting on the wrong day - my own case included. I've worked with bees for over 12 years now and been stung I guess more times than I would have liked. About 3 years ago on a sunny Sunday afternoon I was just finishing off working my own hives in an out apiary when I got one sting in the neck. I didn't think anything of it but by the time it took to drive home (about ten minutes) the skin on my arms, neck and chest was blotchy and starting to swell and itch. When I had some shortness of breath and chest pains my wife called the doctor. I needed two shots of adrenaline as my heart had slowed right down. This was a bad reaction, maybe anaphylactic. I went on a bee venom desensitization programme at the hospital in Southampton (UK), during which time I couldn't go near bees. They gave me shots of honeybee venom increasing in concentration and dose over several months and fortunately, I built up an immunity to the venom rather quickly, within 5 months. I stayed on the programme for just over another year but went back to beekeeping in the meantime. I was stung during this time (and after) but with no reaction - better than before the "accident". However, I always carry adrenaline, just in case. I continue to work with bees as it's a passion as well as a way of life for me. Not all people will be as Iucky as I was but a desensitization programme is definitely worth a try. Max Dr Max Watkins Vita (Europe) Limited Tel 44 (0) 1256 473177 Brook House, Alençon Link, Fax 44 (0) 1256 473179 Basingstoke, Hampshire RG21 7RD, UK ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 13:40:59 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Karen DeHond Subject: Terramycin Comments: cc: Nick Shilliff , Aaron Morris MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We are getting a late start with our bees. They were installed a week ago and I feel we should treat them with terramycin, I think I prefer the dry mix with sugar. According to the directions feed 3 times over a 15 day period, 1) I can sprinkle it on the inner cover or dust the frames, is there a preference? 2) I don't expect to add honey supers until early to mid august. Will this be enough time to get the meds out before honey comes? 3) We installed nucs which had apistan in them, the nucs were very mature, when should I take the apistan out? Thank you all Karen DeHond upstate NY, USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 09:24:26 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "C. Crowell" Subject: Re: Neighbors and bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There are no easy answers to the problems that neighbors can create. For most people, bees are just bugs. And if they know you have bees, then all bees they encounter become your bees, even if they nest in the ground and look remarkably like yellow jackets. It's human nature. It is also part of our national "lottery mentality" to be prone to filing suit over issues that do not affect one's lifestyle so much as they present the possibility of significant financial gain with little effort. My suggestion is to make certain that your homeowner's policy covers events on your property that may result from the presence of your hives. If you sell any honey you may risk losing your insurance coverage for the bees since most policies would deem your beekeeping as a "commercial venture" not a hobby, even if the "commercial" venture barely breaks even. It is a strong plus in this regard if you do not sell any of your honey, thus have no cash or income that is linked to it. Inform your neighbors that your coverage is in place, that you have taken steps to reduce their flights over their property. Also inform them if there are any other bees in the area, or other bee-like insects that may be causing problems, and possibly suggest an exterminator if you believe they have yellow jacket problems. Keeping the hives in such a manner that they have a "low profile" is useful, but my opinion is that you have to be firm and stick to your position that the hives are staying. How long were your neighbors in place before they complained, or even became aware that the bees were there? It is remotely possible that your state of county agricultural agent might be able to give you some advice in this matter also. Finally, the one factor that can represent a real problem for you is if the bees swarm. I had hives located on another's property, and they threw off a swarm this spring. The neighbors went beserk. Wouldn't let their children out of the house, and so on. Keep in mind these weren't my neighbors, just neighbors of friends that were kind enough to let me place a hive on their property. It was up to them to decide what they wished to do, and they just felt they had no choice but to ask me to move the hives (which I did without any grumbling, or course, since I suggested that this was their only course of action). Best of luck/ Curtis Crowell ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 11:01:36 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Barricklow, Walt" Subject: HOME REMEDIES MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reading the Prevention magazine for this month, comes up with two home remedies. One for minor wounds, says instead of rubbing on antibacterial ointment to cuts and scrapes use honey, says speeds healing, and moisturizes skin at the same time. Use pasterized honey though. Two substituting honey for sugar, the seasonal allergies have not been so bad. They did have a caution though to not give honey to children under one year old, because of the risk of botulism. Hummmmm Also read that maybe bees are going to be needed to identify a mine field in a war zone, by having a detecable odor of explosive powder on them. (how about that Jerry B.) Thinking that I should spend more time with my girls, and less time reading. Walt in Martin SC ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 10:04:58 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Musashi Subject: where do queenless swarms go? I picked up a swarm of bees a few days ago that was obviously queenless. Rather than combine them with another hive as I ought to have done, I put them in their own hive, planning on combining them with another hive later. I discovered that they had left (probably the next day). My question is, "Where would they go?" Since they don't have a queen, yet seemed to want to stay together as a unit, will they search for their old nest until they die (if they can't find it), or are they more likely to just combine with another established colony? What are the odds that they just joined another colony in the same apiary versus flying off somewhere in search of their old home? The box they were in is completely empty of bees. Layne Westover College Station, Texas ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 10:22:11 -0500 Reply-To: "David D. Scribner" Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David D. Scribner" Subject: Re: Queen in a swarm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mark Gosswiller wrote: >Can anyone tell me: when a hive swarms, does the OLD queen leave with part >of the hive before the NEW queen has emerged from her cell or is it after >the new queen has emerged. Most often the old queen will leave with the swarm before the new queen emerges. If she didn't, there would likely be a fight between the queens, with one of them (most likely the elder) loosing the battle. BTW, if you've been following the thread on queens "piping" (listen to a couple samples at Allen Dick's web site - http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/ ), you've read that at times the queen's piping sounds can be heard around swarming time. Many times, the old queen will pipe shortly before the swarm leaves, with a queen (or queens) piping back to her from inside their queen cell. Perhaps this is their way of confirming the hive will be in good hands after she's gone? It is also not uncommon for worker bees to hold virgin queens ready to emerge "captive" in their cell until the swarm has departed with the old queen. --David Scribner - Ballwin, MO, USA Niche on the Net! - ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 11:13:20 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Van Roekel Subject: Re: Neighbors and bees In-Reply-To: <199905271420.KAA24830@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > It is also part of our national "lottery mentality" to be prone to filing >suit over issues that do not affect one's lifestyle so much as they present >the possibility of significant financial gain with little effort. > My suggestion is to make certain that your homeowner's policy covers >events on your property that may result from the presence of your hives. This is a good idea, but I would not spend too much to get a policy that did cover bees if my homeowners did not. > Inform your neighbors that your coverage is in place, This is not a good idea!! This may give them the idea that a lawsuit would be profitable and filing suit may not have occured to them. I prefer to let people think that taking me to court would be a waste of time, money and effort. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 11:19:54 -0500 Reply-To: "David D. Scribner" Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David D. Scribner" Subject: Re: Terramycin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Karen DeHond wrote: >I feel we should treat them with terramycin, I think I prefer the dry >mix with sugar. According to the directions feed 3 times over a 15 day >period, > >1) I can sprinkle it on the inner cover or dust the frames, is there a >preference? IMHO, between these two choices I would sprinkle it over the brood frames. This will hasten the bee's consumption. Terramycin breaks down chemically (becomes ineffective) in short time when mixed or dissolved in water. That is the main reason most suggest medicating with Terramycin mixed with powdered sugar and sprinkled, or mixed into grease patties (vegetable shortening and sugar). Mixed into the syrup, the bees often don't consume it fast enough before the compound breaks down. When you dust the frames, as mentioned, dust the tops of the brood frames. Use care to prevent dusting the brood themselves, though, as the mix will kill the uncapped brood if sprinkled directly on them. The powdered sugar mix will usually be consumed more rapidly when placed in this area than if it was sprinkled on top of the inner cover, especially with a newly hived package or swarm. Even with a strong nuc, I would make it easy for them. >2) I don't expect to add honey supers until early to mid august. Will this >be enough time to get the meds out before honey comes? Wait six weeks after your last treatment of Terramycin before you super for surplus. If using medicated grease patties, wait six weeks after they have been consumed, or removed from the hive manually. >3) We installed nucs which had apistan in them, the nucs were very mature, >when should I take the apistan out? > >Thank you all >Karen DeHond >upstate NY, USA Contact your supplier of the nucs and see when the Apistan strips were installed. The strips are usually left in for 4-6 weeks, and then removed. It's imperative the strips be removed in a timely fashion to prevent Varroa mites from building a resistance to fluvalinate (the active ingredient) in your area. Be sure to over-estimate rather than under-estimate the time they've been in the nucs if the Apistan installation date can not be confirmed. --David Scribner - Ballwin, MO, USA Niche on the Net! - ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 11:31:33 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Matthew Subject: Re: Neighbors and bees - my 2 cents MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (please note - Zee didn't leave her e-mail address so please excuse the length of this reply to Bee-L) With similar problems experienced here, I sympathize with your dilemma Zee. We had five hives here at the house (1/3 acre) and fifteen down at my commercial property(1/2 acre) in the middle of town. The fifteen had to moved last year after the leaves dropped and exposed the hives - causing a neighbor to go into a panic because "a bee might get into his trash and sting somebody". He called the police, fire & humane society all in the same night. No-one would help him as I occasionally work for these departments in removing their bee troubles. However, the humane society gave me 8 or 9 months to move them, which I finally did this spring (we have 35 acres south). (I'll be protesting the ordinance later this year) The five here at the house were a 'blessing' to everyone last year with abundant fruit & veggies. This year I've been approached by both neighbors on either side. . One neighbor has a first grade daughter which developed such a fear of bees, she won't go outside - though never stung. The other just says there are "too many bees" and they're visiting her hot-tub. Thankfully, both are also gardeners and realize the benefits of bees. I have some 20-25 fruit trees planted and both neighbors have a few apples & cherries. All but one of the hives were removed. The biggest problem you face is fear. We both know there's no much danger of stings unless a bee is crushed or it's hive is threatened. However the chance of children getting stung from crushed bees might be great if you have your four hives in close proximity to ground flowers in your neighbor's lawn (weeds?). If your neighbors can see your hives this will keep your bees on their mind. If they see thousands of bees on their flowers, this will keep the 'scare' alive as well. Here's what I'd do: (out-of-sight out-of-mind) 1) Build up a 8'-10' tall fenced area around the four hives (enclosed) with enough room to work and for the bees to gain altitude easily. Place your water source inside the 'pen'. Your neighbors will also see you're 'doing' something about their concerns. 2) Around the bee 'pen' I'd plant some fast growing trees - say poplar (ugh!) or ? The higher the bees have to fly up, the farther they seem to travel for forage (my experience with my 15 hives on the downtown property, as they had to climb 15-20' to get out and were never seen by neighbors). -or- plant a row of bushes such as lilacs, in-between the bees & your neighbors along the sides of the property. They might take a couple seasons to be effective but your fence for the bee-pen will hopefully create some immediate effect (or the illusion of). 3) Talk to your neighbors and tell them your plans. If they're gardeners, take the time to talk to them about the pollination benefits (with the drought of bees currently upon us, since the advent of the mite). If they grow tomatoes or fruit trees, they're realizing the benefits without the trouble of maintaining hives. Also explain to them that you plan on lifting the bee flight-paths higher to keep them flying out for forage - and that they should see better effect as the bushes/trees grow as a fence-line. (the idea here is that they have something to look forward and may just forget all about your bees next year - especially if the fence keeps the bees flying up) 4) Ask for their help: Explain (nicely) that weeds are an excellent draw for yours, & other, bees. If they have plants that are heavy nectar producers, remind them that these will bring in bees (when flowering) whether you have any hives there or not. They should remove or move these plants if they don't want the stream of bees visiting. Perhaps they'll help you plant your bushes/trees in a cohesive effort for improvement? Also talk to them about bees that aren't yours along with pests such as yellow-jackets. Bring them a dead bee & yellow-jacket so they can see the difference (descriptions never seem to work as I get calls all the time for honeybees only to find some are not). After I removed my 15 hives from the downtown property, there's more bees than ever on my 'downtown' fruit trees and I'm not sure where they're coming from. Find and give them something to read - perhaps an article on the plight of honeybees or another on the benefit they do for ALL of us. If this doesn't work or you can't find a reasonable alternative, even though you have the right to hold your bees there, you may have an uphill battle in keeping them. Neighbors have a right to quiet enjoyment and may see "your" bees "everywhere" as a hindrance. If the neighbors turn nasty or try court action, you may wish you had taken a few 'extra' steps just to keep the peace and avoid trouble. If you see something brewing, I'd go looking for a farmer or land-owner and move all but one of your hives, or at least leave the option open. Hope this helps, Good luck with your troubles & please e-mail me with your solution! Matthew Westall- Castle Rock, CO Zee Byrd wrote: > Today my neighbors came over and talked to my husband > about my bees. (Nice guy that he was (my husband) - > he told them to come back and talk to me when I got > home!) They say that my bees are bothering them while > they are in their veggie garden, visiting their pond, > etc., etc., etc. > > I have 4 hives, which I've had for 6 years. The first ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 22:34:18 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Termites and ants and treated wood MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi Trevor/Allen/All Trevor - you mentioned that wax treatment in conjunction with napthanate did not inhibit the action of certain termites on your hive bodies - this is really interesting. I suspect, but am not sure that when people in the states speak of treating to inhibit insect damage they may be refering to ant and termite damage by fungus gardening insects - these cultivate fungi as part of their lifesytle - feeding it bits of whatever they harvest. Hence napthanates may kill these fungi. Simpler termites which do not have these complex symbioses may not be affected. However, most termites cultivate certain protozoa in their lower guts that speed up breakdown of cellulose and I think lignins as well - is there anything that could kill these fungi - thus making anything that ate the wood unable to digest it?? Just an idea Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis 6139 South Africa Time = Honey ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 23:11:59 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: P-O Gustafsson Subject: Re: Transporting queen cells MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > mentioning that there is a certain time that the queen larvae are very > delicate. What exactly is the time period (days from grafting) when the > larvae are delicate? I have found that the first days when the cell is capped, the larvae is still feeding from the jelly at the top of the cell and will fall down and die if the cell is handled roughly. If I have to touch cells at that time (cell protectors to avoid waxing up) I hold them upside down. > What methods do people use for transporting queen > cells during the day from yard to yard? There is a handy unit called Carricell, that I have been using for several years. A battery operated portable incubator that hold cells in foam trays. Made in New Zealand by John Dobson (address from Nicks Homepage). -- Regards P-O Gustafsson, Sweden beeman@algonet.se http://www.algonet.se/~beeman/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 23:06:32 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Mentor stung below the belt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi All All this talk of mentors reminds me of a rather embarrasing experience I had a year ago. I aggreed to show a fellow student who was interested in keeping bees how I worked them. Well we got to the apiary and I told her that protective gear was bad and that the most any beekeeper should ever need is a smoker and a veil. She was in a nice short little skirt and a light top - I always tell people to wear a white top. I was in a pair of my trademark short pants and a nice propolis stained T-shirt (as a rule any white t-shirt is propolis stained). No sooner had I smoked the first hive than three bees from the hive next door to me flew up my pants and stung me somewhere I had never been stung before. The pain was not as bad as I had suspected it would bee, but I now had to work out a way of politely excusing myself to remove beestings - an act which would naturally involve pulling down pants, and which in the treelees karroo can pose a problem in polite company. Well - shortly thereafter a bee did a similar thing to my friend and she solved the problem by running away and so I did the same and at a polite distance removed the stings. (OUCH!!!) That was when I learnt that the Aloe honey flow makes bees a bit unreasonable. But a very good lesson for all those 'I work my bees in a shirt and short pants' people like myself - make sure that if you are wearing boxer shorts underneath that you wear a pair of bikini type skants over them to limit the chances of these unpleasant stings x rated stings. My friend decided not to become a beekeeper. Now I ask people that come with me to wear jeans, a white shirt and I make them wear my one veil!! People still make jokes about me being into 'beestiality' and so on. Rather embarrasing. Given that a sting is a modified ovipositor and that ovipositors are used for laying eggs it follows this is a bad way to get........ Life is fun. Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis 6139 South Africa Time = Honey ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 20:25:14 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: harold37@EAGNET.COM Subject: Re: Automatic Entrance Reducers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I use 3/4 inch board across the entrance with a single nail on one corner to enable it to be hinged up in the summer and down in winter or as needed. Harold -----Original Message----- From: Allen Dick To: BEE-L@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU Date: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 2:33 PM Subject: Automatic Entrance Reducers >>> >http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 21:58:50 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert Barnett Subject: Re: where do queenless swarms go? Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hello Layne, and all, I hope I will not violate protocol by this answer! The right question is not where did the colony go, but how could it have been kept? I submit this. 1. Immediately, since you obviously have at least one colony, take a frame of brood and eggs from it and put in it the swarm colony....this will hold it indefinitely, and if there is no queen present, in 24 hours or less there will be a queen cell or several, proving that the queen was not captured, or was killed in the collection process...Not stated was how and when you knew the colony had no queen. Were they vacuumed up? Were they brushed into a box? Was the box left on site long enough for the bees to fan the colony location scent so that all the bees and queen got in? 2. Did you put some sugar syrup on the swarm box quickly? Just this will hold a queenless swarm sometimes for a day or two, during which time one may get a new queen for the colony, even if there is no frame of brood. 3. I have no information of where the swarm might have gone on absconding. Better luck next time! Bob Barnett, Birmingham AL ---------- > From: Musashi > To: BEE-L@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU > Subject: where do queenless swarms go? > Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 10:04:58 -0500 > >I picked up a swarm of bees a few days ago that was obviously queenless. > My question is, "Where would they go?" Since they don't have a queen, yet seemed to want to stay >together as a unit, > >Layne Westover >College Station, Texas ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 19:50:15 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tom Elliott Subject: Re: Neighbors and bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If it comes to moving the bees, I would suggest doing it, if possible, without anyone knowing that they have been moved. Leave empty hives in place of the current ones (they should look the same). Then if complaints keep coming in you can point out that you moved your bees X weeks ago. The culprits could never have been yours. I suggest this because most bee complaints have no relationship to bees, or even yellow jackets. They relate to seeing bee hives. We had a woman take a complaint to the local government to remove an ordinance allowing keeping ov honeybees. Her efforts fell to pieces when it was revealed that there were no bees in the hives. They had all died the previous winter (they are prone to do that in this area). -- "Test everything. Hold on to the good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21) Tom Elliott Chugiak, Alaska U.S.A. beeman@gci.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 01:17:46 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: RockyTop Farm Subject: Supers and medications Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) I don't recall reading anywhere about waiting six weeks after removal of teramycin before adding supers. I was under the impression that as soon as the meds were removed it was o.k. to super. Is it true about the waiting period? Thank you for your advice, Barb Miller ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 17:04:34 PDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Re: Home remedies In-Reply-To: <199905271506.LAA26190@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Walt in Martin SC wrote > One for minor wounds, says instead of > rubbing on antibacterial ointment to cuts and scrapes use honey, says > speeds healing, and moisturizes skin at the same time. > Use pasterized honey though. I would question the use of pasturised honey for use on cuts and scrapes. According to the people doing the research on anti-bacterial properties of honey, the honey used should not be heated. This is because if the honey has natural peroxide activity, and this is one property that helps heal wounds, this will be removed by heating. Not all honeys have natural peroxide activity. They have to be tested to show that they have this property. Those honeys such as manuka in New Zealand and jellybush in Australia which have very good antibacterial properties have something else other than peroxide. This is not always present in the honey either. In Australia you can have honey from the same floral source, jellybush, from different areas and one will be active and the other not. No one seems to know the reason why. I believe that it is the same for manuka. Other honeys that do not have peroxide or activity, such as the manuka and jellybush, can maybe help with healing. Reasons could be the low ph or the high "sugar" content. I don't claim to know all about these properties and our scientists tell us that they are only starting to get some hard data now. There is a long way to go but it is certainly promising. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 21:26:24 -0500 Reply-To: cspacek@centurion.flash.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: curtis Subject: Re: Poles with baskets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I use this method regularly with great success,the only difference being that I use a 5gal plastic bucket tied tjust below the pruning hook.limbs which are in the way can be easily pruned to give space for the bucket.wax the inside of the bucket and the bees won't bee able to climb the walls and can be dumped directly into a waiting hive on the ground. undoubtedly the absolute best method i've found yet!!!!! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 16:21:35 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: FAITHAB@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Fw: Bare hands. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/26/99 11:23:30 AM !!!First Boot!!!, Gothoney@aol.com writes: << I don't find gloves clumsey >> Nor do I. I find that the leather ones (of the right size) are the best type. The rubber kind are very clumsy and the cloth ones don't work at all; the bees sting right through them. Faith Andrews Bedford Tampa and Ivy, VA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 08:53:31 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Home remedies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Checked my ABC XYZ and Hydrogen Peroxide is not in ripe honey. It is produced by Glucose Oxidase when the honey is diluted. It is easily destroyed by heating. When the honey is at 18-19 percent moisture, the enzyme is not active. Greater than that, it produces Hydrogen Peroxide and Gluconic Acid, both of which act as antibacterial agents. So somthing more than peroxide is going on in the down under honeys, if, from my reading, Glucose Oxidase is normally in honey. It would be interesting if heat is the real cause of some honeys being less effective, since the enzyme is destroyed or inhibited by heat. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 07:32:44 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: eabell Subject: Re: where do queenless swarms go? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Musashi wrote: > I picked up a swarm of bees a few days ago that was obviously queenless. What makes it obvious? How do you know the swarm is queenless when you first catch it? -- Eric & Marnie Abell Box 87 Gibbons, AB T0A 1N0 Canada Phone/fax (780) 998 3143 eabell@compusmart.ab.ca ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 10:21:45 -0400 Reply-To: jstreck@wizard.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: jstreck@WIZARD.NET Subject: ISO Northern Virginia Beekeeping Association MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am looking for a contact for a beekeeping association in the Northern Virginia area (Fairfax or Prince William County). If anyone can point me in the right direction, I would greatly appreciate it. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 11:28:32 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Musashi Subject: Re: where do queenless swarms go? What makes it obvious that a swarm is queenless? Maybe I was expressing myself a little to confidently. Rather than "obviously" maybe I should have said "apparently" and rather than "swarm" I should have said "cluster of bees" or something else. I didn't go into great detail because the question I'm most interested in is "where do queenless swarms go?" To answer this and other questions regarding this episode, I'll go into a little more detail: I used my new bee vac (that I constructed using the plans kindly provided by Matthew Westall and Barry Birkey) to pick up a colony of bees that was established for a week or two under the cover of a water meter. Consulting with Matthew on my experiences, he suggested that it's pretty obvious when you didn't get the queen because the bees fly around inside the box and are not calm. Most of the bees hang in a calm cluster if you got the queen. If not, then they run around or fly and try to find the queen. I was not sure whether or not I had the queen, because the majority of my bees were calm, while 1/4 or so of them were running around and angry and trying to get out of the box. Matthew told me that I obviously didn't get the queen. He has more experience than I do, so I took his word for it and expressed myself more confidently than I normally would have done. Sometimes we cannot be completely 100% sure about something but through experience, we start becoming attuned to how bees act and sound when there is not a queen with them. Two other things that happened drew me to the conclusion that there was no queen. First, when I dumped the bees from my box into the hive (and by the way, I did put on a sugar syrup entrance feeder and constricted the entrance) I then placed the almost empty inner vacuum box next to the hive so stragglers could join the bees in the hive. Half an hour later when I looked out, all the bees from the hive had rejoined the bees in the lidless inner vacuum box that was next to the hive. (This all happened toward the close of the day). I dumped them into the hive again, then used my brush to sweep out every single last bee into the hive, then removed the inner vacuum box completely from the area so they couldn't recongregate in it. Second, the next day (at the end of the day) when I looked inside the hive, there was not a single bee. As my local beekeeping "mentor" friend has said to me on such occasions when bees leave the next day, "They probably didn't have a queen." Someone with more experience than me (bolstering my confidence to say the same thing) might say "Obviously you didn't get the queen." I observe, think, decide, then act. When I have failures like this, I also retrospect and consult. If you see brood and eggs in a colony, are you sure you have a queen? Obviously you do. But maybe you don't. You might have just killed her accidentally while examining the hive. But you decide based on the observation that you have a queen and act accordingly. Final comment about this experience: it was not such a great loss because it was a rather small colony anyway. I consider it a learning experience and therefore valuable. I helped the man (and the city) eliminate a bee problem in a water meter area, had a successful removal using my new bee vac, and learned something about how to recognize whether a queen is present or not in a cluster of bees and what my options might be to not lose the bees. Adding a frame of brood with eggs and young larvae was one option, but there were not enough bees to warrant that. The best course of action would have been to shake them into an empty super over a sheet of newspaper on top of an established hive that needed more bees. That way I would not have lost them. Any way, that's the conclusion I have come to. I always learn more valuable lessons from my failures than I do from my successes. They keep me stimulated about how I can learn more and do a better job/make a better choice next time. And still, no one yet has answered MY question, "Where does a queenless swarm go?" I suspect they search for their old home/queen, and failing that, find a place to establish a queenless colony and eventually die out. I don't think they are likely to have joined another colony in the apiary. Layne Westover College Station, Texas p.s. I forgot to mention the loud "hum" of these bees, almost like a loud buzzing. Does that also indicate queenlessness? I think so (more retrospection...I didn't recall that until just now). Having made BAD mistakes in the past has given me conviction and confidence. At least I know for sure in some cases what NOT to do. I don't think I've ever enjoyed anything more than I enjoy beekeeping. It's a never-ending source of pleasure and learning to me. Thank you to all the contributors on this list too. You help me to find and recognize pieces to the puzzle. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 11:35:40 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Transporting queen cells In-Reply-To: <199905281105.HAA18456@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi folks, > >... there is a certain time that the queen larvae are very > > delicate. What exactly is the time period (days from grafting) when the > > larvae are delicate? > > I have found that the first days when the cell is capped, the larvae is still > feeding from the jelly at the top of the cell and will fall down and die if the > cell is handled roughly. If I have to touch cells at that time (cell protectors > to avoid waxing up) I hold them upside down. > It was over two years ago when I took Sue Cobey's queen rearing course so I am not sure of the timing. However, the concern for gentle handling of queen cells does not regard the larvae stage (although the concern pointed out by P-O is valid), the time when it is critical to handle the cells with UTMOST care is the period when the queen pupae is developing her wings. At this time in development a point was hammered home that the cells should never be held upside down or "manhandled" in any way. I cannot say with assuredness what day that is, but it is close to the emergence date of the queen (a day or two prior, I think closer to two). I'm saying right up front that these guesses are not reliable. Perhaps Dave Eyre can/will assist, otherwise hit the books. Aaron Morris - thinking good queens don't just happen! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 11:35:39 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Supers and medications In-Reply-To: <199905281114.HAA18579@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > I don't recall reading anywhere about waiting six weeks after removal of > teramycin before adding supers. It on the packaging label! Sometimes the instructions for TM and bees isn't on the package label and an accompanying hand out must be requested, but I thought Pfizer corrected that. Anyway, the 6 week waiting period is correct, direct from Pfizer. Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 12:30:34 -0500 Reply-To: "David D. Scribner" Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David D. Scribner" Subject: Re: Supers and medications MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Barb Miller wrote: >I don't recall reading anywhere about waiting six weeks after removal of >teramycin before adding supers. I was under the impression that as soon >as the meds were removed it was o.k. to super. Is it true about the >waiting period? It depends on the medication given, of course. In this instance (refering to Terramycin) the length of waiting-time stated, six weeks, is on the "outside" of the waiting-time period most recommend. For reference, I've read articles in Bee Culture magazine that specify waiting six weeks (James E. Tew - 3/98), four weeks (Back Cover - 2/96), and a few books I can put my fingers on at the moment (most are still packed away) that specify the waiting period to be *at least* four weeks (The Hive and the Honey Bee - 1975 ed.; Keeping Bees - John Vivian, 1986 ed; Practical Beekeeping - Tompkins & Griffith, 1983 ed.). As well, a few articles in Bee Culture magazine don't specify an exact waiting time, but do mention a waiting period per se... "long before any supers go on" (Richard Taylor - 4/91), "never feed drugs to your bees before or during a honey flow." (Steve Tabor - 10/89). A lot also depends on the way Terramycin is administered. For example, The Hive and the Honey Bee indicate that testing showed Terramycin residuals were not likely to be found in supers outside of the brood chamber when administered in powder sugar mix or extender patty form when placed on topbars in the brood nest area (Wilson, 1974). If Terramycin is administered in sugar syrup, the bees move this around in the combs just like nectar. It may take some time before it has been used as food, and until that time it may be stored with/in honey that will be harvested. As well, even if the honey containing Terramycin is stored soley in the brood nest, it may be moved upward into an available super by the bees if one is supplied too soon (bees may not move the pollen out of a pollen-bound frame, but they will move honey). The main reason for the waiting period when using Terramycin is to prevent residuals from contaminating harvestable honey. Harvested honey can be tested with microbiological assays to determine if these residuals are present. However, and especially with starting "newbees" off on the right foot, I would rather lean towards the six-week waiting period, versus four-week, to be on the safe side... it's not worth taking the risk when it comes to honey contamination (and one of the **FEW** times where "more" could be better than "less"). Hope this helps answer your question! Take care! --David Scribner - Ballwin, MO, USA Niche on the Net! - ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 19:46:21 +0300 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jan Tempelman Organization: in R'dam Subject: Re: Home remedies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit T & M Weatherhead wrote: > This is because if the honey has natural peroxide activity, and this is one property that helps heal wounds, this will be removed by heating. Not all honeys have natural peroxide activity. They have to be tested to show that they have this property. test on http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/H2O2.html -------------------------------- Jan Tempelman Kerkstraat 53 7471 AG GOOR telefoon: 0547-NOG NIET ------------------------------------ http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/index3.html mailto:jtemp@xs4all.nl ------------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 11:00:00 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BRIAN HENSEL Subject: Re: where do queenless swarms go? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit HI LAYNE WESTOVER AND ALL BEEKEEPERS: Layne asks " Where do queenless swarm's go? " I can comment on this by my most recent experience in my own apiary. I had a hive swarm last weekend, even though I had placed a second deep on top the week before, but the hive was in the swarm mode, and I did not inspect them, just checked to see when I needed to add the second deep. Last weekend I saw a big cloud of bee's emerge from this hive and circle above the hive, then drift off to a stand of tree's. I followed them so I would be able to retrieve them, and put them in a new box. I watched them all land on a branch way up in a tree. I then went and started to gather all the things I would need to capture the swarm, but when I returned in 10 minutes they had gone back to the hive. They were all hanging on the back of the hive. When I inspected the swarm there was no queen, and when I checked the hive I found swarm cells, but they were not capped as yet. The original queen could not join this swarm because her wing is clipped, so the bee's returned home. The bee's will seal up the swarm cells and then try and swarm with the new queen when she emerges in about a week later, called " after swarms". From Layne's post I would say he got a swarm that could have emerged from a hive with a clipped queen, then the swarm flew back home to the original hive. I think if a queen was introduced in a queen cage, then they would have stayed if she was accepted. I think that this is one possibility that could explain why the swarm left. BRIAN HENSEL bjhensel@pacific.net B&C Bee's Ukiah California, USA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 14:37:14 -0400 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Organization: ACB Dept., Univ of Michigan Subject: Re: where do queenless swarms go? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All right, I'll get directly to the point. A queenless swarm will go back to the colony from which they issued. If for some reason that colony has been moved or removed after the swarm has issued, they will enter the next closest colony, whether they are welcomed or not. It is quite unlikely that they will go off to establish a queenless colony somewhere else. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA