From MAILER-DAEMON Fri Sep 17 12:52:17 1999 Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27325 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:52:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA11107 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:52:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199909171652.MAA11107@listserv.albany.edu> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:52:12 -0400 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8d)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG9906B" To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Content-Length: 190121 Lines: 4213 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 11:15:39 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Elizabeth Petofi Subject: Re: Berry pollonation vs. netting size MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > What is the smallest size netting bees will pass through to get to the > berry blossoms? asked Mason Harris, > KarinaBee Apiaries. I would like to know the answer to this question, too. Please put answer for benefit of all! Elizabeth Petofi, bees in Orange County, VA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 20:12:58 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Better Bee Subject: [Fwd: UpS Shipment of Package Bees.] Comments: To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------B1C4FB946A91D22982357E3E" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------B1C4FB946A91D22982357E3E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------B1C4FB946A91D22982357E3E Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Message-ID: <37586956.2B97726C@betterbee.com> Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 20:03:35 -0400 From: Better Bee X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8c)" Subject: UpS Shipment of Package Bees. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We just received what may be the first ever shipment of packaged bees by United Parcel Service. An experimental package with double screening was shipped next day air from Georgia at 5 P.M. Arrived at 11A.M. at Betterbee in New York in excellent condition - no dead bees and little evidence of heat stress although the morning here was on the cool side. How they would fare is they were in a U.P. S truck all day on a really hot day is another question. At least UPS is willing to ship them for the first time, and given the postal service's record of package destruction, it is good to finally have an alternative. Incidentally, the UPS driver seemed very nonchalant about it ( the screening hides the bees) until we told him he had been riding around with 12,000 bees. --------------B1C4FB946A91D22982357E3E-- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 15:11:44 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dave Malachy Subject: Re: Tracking the Buzz In-Reply-To: <199906061409.KAA18563@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Popular Science, Febuary 1977 reports: "BEES AND OTHER pollinators are disappearing in distressing numbers worldwide, so British researchers are experimenting with a harmless way to track the insects and gather informat- ion that could help preserve them. A radar tracking system emits a signal; an antenna weighing only three milligrams that's affixed to a bee reradiates the frequency, so the insect's travel can be monitored." Institute of Arable Crops Research-Rothamsted, Harpenden, Hertfordshire, AL5 2JQ, England. An interesting addition to the effort documented by Dr. Jerry Bromshenk at University of Montana. I thought it was a joke? Nevertheless, how far could this reseach get? dm ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 20:31:59 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Closing Bees in Hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Scott: You have a good solution. The bees will be fine, particularly in the morning and some shade. George ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 11:37:44 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GW Subject: Re: Queen excluders on entrances MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Brushey Mountain Bee Co.( http://www.beeequipment.com/ ) makes the device you have asked about. It is item #675, and it is called an entrance guard, 1-4 is $4.50 each and 5+ is $3.99 Hope this helps, gw Lloyd Spear wrote: > "I know that this is commercially made, but do not know where it can be > purchased. Anyone > help?" > > I found one source, Kelley sells full size sheets, from which narrow strips > can be cut for stapling over hive entrance. Kelley catalog #37. However, > Kelley will only sell in lots of 100! Anyone know where (1) can be > purchased? > > Lloyd > > Lloyd Spear Owner, Ross Rounds(tm). The finest in comb honey production. > http://www.rossrounds.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 22:13:59 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: amy thomson Subject: Re: 2nd query In-Reply-To: <199906041242.IAA14324@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > Honey has powerful antibacterial properties, according to its origin >(the best one seem to be thyme honey), but, in my personal opinion, it would >be better to consider it as a potentially very good LOCAL antibiotic (like >is the case in the treatment of wounds, burns and scalds) and not so much as >a "systemic" antibiotic. Interesting that thyme honey is a good antibiotic, thyme oil (thymol) is an extremely potent antibacterial agent. (It's one of the main ingredients of the mouthwash Listerine). I wonder if enough of the thymol is getting into the honey to have an effect? Amy Thomson ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 16:18:12 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Robert M. Malley" Subject: Re. Killing Africanized Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >What is good way to kill africanized bees in a hive while leaving the combs >in usable condition? Why go through the trouble. Kill the queen Then 24 hours later requeen with the type of bee you want. In two mouths you will have the colony that you want. Without having to go through a big build up phase. Just a Newbee Robert ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 22:38:10 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David & Sarah Grew-Foss Subject: queen not laying where dead brood is Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello All, Sometime ago I wrote about having a queenless hive. A short time after that it appeared I had laying workers, at least to my unknowing mind. I decided to try and re-queen, knowing my chances for sucess were slim. So I dumped the hive which took quite some time and several partially capped frames of drone brood were exposed to cool air for the duration. As it turned out I had a drone laying queen who was killed by the marked queen I introduced. I found the dead queen outside the hive so I know this for sure and I have seen the marked queen on two inspections since. Much of the drone brood survived to hatch and be killed, but some did not and the bees haven't cleaned out the dead. The new queen seems to not be willing to lay eggs in the frames where there are dead brood. Is this usual? Should I replace these frames? What might be the best way to remove the dead bees from the frames? Also, this hive is now quite small. I have reduced them to one deep brood chamber, one honey super of foundation, as I found a couple of wax moth larva. They do seem to be covering about six frames, but are not interested in building out the foundation. We are in a strong honey flow, my other hive built out 8frames of a medium and partially filled it in one week. However, there are earwigs in the lid of the hive and ants on parade. Any suggestions? The poor gals are quite demoralized. Sarah Richmond CA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 08:57:26 -0700 Reply-To: jslavett@worldnet.att.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jeffrey Lavett Subject: Re: New Queen Comments: To: Al Needham MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Both books are worthwhile references and cover many topics thoroughly. The principle difference between them is their organization of subject matter. ABC & XYZ is arranged alphbetically, like a dictionary, while Hive and Honeybee divides beekeeping into broad topics and subtopics. It is also a larger book with more detail on many topics than ABC, yet those details may be superfluous depending on your interests and operations. For quick reference and location of a specific item of information, ABC might have the edge. For general study of the subjects of bees and beekeeping, Hive and Honeybee is a better text. Al Needham wrote: > > >"The Hive and the Honeybee" or "The ABC and XYZ of > > Beeculture". Any recommendations between the two? > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 06:51:51 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: PC Way Subject: Re: [Fwd: UpS Shipment of Package Bees.] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >them for the first time, and given the postal service's record of >package destruction, it is good to finally have an alternative. I have always found the shipping quality to be quite the opposite. I ship computer systems, and not once has UPS successfully shipped a system without damaging it. Whereas the USPS has shipped everyone without any damage. Plus, I worked for UPS, and I saw a good 2,000 packages waisted on my shift alone everyday. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 10:29:13 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Lipscomb, Al" Subject: Re: Killing Africanized Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I know you need fast results but there may be other solutions. For example putting a feeder on the hive could help calm them down a bit. Then kill the old queen and newspaper on the bees from the nuc along with the new queen. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 10:34:49 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: bill bartlett Subject: Fw: Rape (canola) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Bee-Ler's in the UK, I sent this to the list a while back. I was mostly interested in the uses and amounts of oil produced by the rape seed and any other info on the oil. I did not get any responses so I am trying again. You can email me personally. Thanks, Bill B Subject: Rape (canola) >Dear beekeepers in UK, > >Just returned to the US from a lovely trip to the UK. > >I was amazed at the amount of rape (canola) that I saw. I >looked at the fields when I had the chance, but did not see >any bees. Most that I saw was passed peak bloom. The only >bees that I saw were in the Kensington Garden in London. > >I wish that I had paid more attention to the past posts that >were on the list some time back about the rape. Last time I >was in the UK, about three years ago, I did see the bees >working the fields of rape. > >It is my understanding that the government subsidizes the >growing of the rape. Why? I saw no corn or soy beans. Why >is there so much rape? Is it mainly used as fodder for cows >and sheep? Is there a lot of oil made from the seed for >frying oil and margarine? Is it just the area I was in that >grows so much rape? (countryside of London and the >Salisbury Plain) > >How about the honey? Do you get a good crop? Colour? >(color). Any specifics? > >Rape sure does make beautiful fields of yellow. > >William A. Bartlett >19124 Lake Drive >Leonardtown, Maryland 20650 >Bartlett@us.hsanet.net >38.25 N, 76.60 W > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 10:46:16 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pollinator@AOL.COM Subject: Re: queen not laying where dead brood is MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/8/99 8:24:55 AM Eastern Daylight Time, tloloc@dnai.com writes: > Also, this hive is now quite small. I have reduced them to one deep brood > chamber, one honey super of foundation, as I found a couple of wax moth > larva. They do seem to be covering about six frames, but are not interested > in building out the foundation. We are in a strong honey flow, my other hive > built out 8frames of a medium and partially filled it in one week. However, > there are earwigs in the lid of the hive and ants on parade. Any > suggestions? The poor gals are quite demoralized. Give them a couple frames of sealed brood. If they don't recover after that, your new queen is a ding-a-ling. Recombine by using this hive as a super on your good hive. There's no use to nurse along junk bees. My first thought was the one I expressed secondly. I really wonder how much trouble it is worth to try to save a hive that won't build in the spring. There may be secondary reasons, perhaps originally poor genetics, or high tracheal mite levels, nosema, virus, etc. If requeening hasn't solved the problem, you are beating a dead horse. And you are raiding your good hive, thus reducing their production. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html The Pollination Home Page: http://www.pollinator.com Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 10:57:07 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: De Witt Subject: Wild Hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Does any one in the Dallas/Fort Worth, TX. area want a other hive. I = have had someone call me for a hive removal. I do not have any more = boxes to put this one up.=20 E-Mail me direct. Cliff ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 10:34:07 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Transporting queen cells In-Reply-To: <199905261818.OAA04819@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > There has been some interesting discussion about requeening > using queen > cells. I have also noted though some posts (I think by Dave Green) > mentioning that there is a certain time that the queen larvae are very > delicate. What exactly is the time period (days from > grafting) when the > larvae are delicate? What methods do people use for > transporting queen > cells during the day from yard to yard? Gilles Fert in his book, 'Breeding Queens' says "...as far as possible avoid all handling between the seventh and ninth days afer grafting. At this stage the larvae(sic) are particularly fragile: the young larvae has spun its cocoon and is hanging from the top of the cell; if this is mishandled or cooled, it may produce a queen with deformed feet or atrophied wings". Jack verified this fairly well with his attempts at hatching queen cells that he had kept at room temperature for 24 hours during this stage. (See sci.agriculture.beekeeping from May 1997) allen ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 07:37:17 +0100 Reply-To: Ruary Rudd Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ruary Rudd Subject: Re: Killing Africanized Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: P-O Gustafsson Date: 07 June 1999 19:41 Subject: Re: Killing Africanized Bees >> What is good way to kill bees in a hive while leaving the combs >> in usable condition? > >Petrol. >P-O Gustafsson, Sweden This will not leave the combs usable, try Sulphur di-oxide obtained by burning sulphur in a pit and placing the hive body over it. This was the old way of harvesting honey from skeps, if they did not drum the bees out of the hive. Sulphur dioxide can be made by treating sodium sulphite with a weak acid and is a gas, It might also be able to obtain it in compressed form. Ruary Rudd rrudd@tine.ie ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 09:36:29 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Killing Bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello All I have not yet had to kill all of the bees in a hive, but I understand that if the bees are thoroughly sprayed with a solution of washing up liquid in water (I do not know the proportions), and the hive then sealed, that the bees succumb very quickly due to the washing up liquid disabling their tracheae and smothering them. There may be an objection to this type of killing due to possible suffering to the bees - I do not know about this. But at least if it works it is environmentally friendly and the hive components should be re useable. Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park, Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland Tel + 353 1 289 5269 Fax + 353 1 289 9940 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 12:11:46 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bernd Kuemmel Subject: Re: willow pollen and colony build up -Svar Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Dear Chris Slade _Male_ willows are the only ones to provide _pollen_ (and nectar) during spring, females only provide nectar. So size does not matter here :=) Nectar is only energy source, pollen contains proteins and other substances taht the beehive desperately needs during spring for the colony build-up. Biofuel-Energy _is_ the main objective of energy belts, however, I have to addresse the related, indirect (external) effects, too in my work. Interannual variations play a role, but I cannot assess their importance at the moment. Mixtures of different willows are important also because of pest-attack-risk minimisation strategies. Sincerely Med venlig hilsen Bernd Kuemmel ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- Bernd Kuemmel, stud.lic. (PhD.stud.) Royal Veterinary and Agricultural University (KVL) Agrovej 10 + DK-2630 Taastrup V: (+45) 35 28 35 33 + F: (+45) 35 28 21 75 http://www.agsci.kvl.dk/~bek/cfehtml.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 13:15:09 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lowell & Diane Hutchison Subject: Re: clusters of bees at entrance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a very strong hive of buckfast bees that I have given several honey supers already but they are clustering on the hive entrance as if they don't have enough room to get into the hive. There is a nectar flow going on and they are bringing in nectar and pollen by the bunch. Should I be concerned by the bunch at the entrance? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 13:06:23 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Problems with queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sarah asks, "The new queen seems to not be willing to lay eggs in the frames where there are dead brood. Is this usual? Should I replace these frames? What might be the best way to remove the dead bees from the frames?" As much as I hate to say it, it sounds as if your new queen might be a dud! In fact, if she has been in there for 4 weeks or longer, she is a dud! If she has only been there for 2-3 weeks, your difficulty may be that between your dwindling supply of bees (natural death) and the age of the survivors, the workers are not cleaning the combs for her to lay. If she has only been there for 2-3 weeks, give the hive at least one full frame of sealed brood from your other hive. Don't worry about the population effect on the strong hive, it will not be noticeable at this time of year. As these bees hatch they, together with the bees from your new queen, will quickly clean out the frames and the queen will lay in them without hesitation. If the queen has been in there for 4 weeks or longer, and your combs are still as you describe them, she is a dud. I suggest you kill her and put the boxes over your strong hive, with a single sheet of newspaper between them. After two weeks you can then move this box(es), being certain to not take the queen. Be certain they have at least one frame of eggs, bringing one up from the bottom if necessary, and let them raise their own queen. If you are not in a good honey flow when you remove the box(es), close up the entrance with grass to control robbing. Best of luck, Lloyd Lloyd Spear Owner, Ross Rounds(tm). The finest in comb honey production. http://www.rossrounds.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 09:42:03 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Paul Nicholson Subject: Re: Killing Africanized Bees In-Reply-To: <199906071233.IAA03423@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" At 7:19 -0500 6/7/99, John Caldeira wrote: >What is good way to kill africanized bees in a hive while leaving the combs >in usable condition? Why do you have to kill them? Suit up well and go and replace the queen with a pre-mated queen. Is the hive in a location where no people or animals will be put at risk when you disturb them? Also, when you replace the queen, if you want to keep the hives existing Africanized drones out the gene pool, put a queen excluder above the bottom board. Paul ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 12:30:40 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Edwards Organization: Hayden Bee Lab, USDA-ARS,Tucson, Arizona Subject: Re: Killing Africanized Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John Caldeira wrote: > What is good way to kill africanized bees in a hive while leaving the combs > in usable condition? > John Caldeira > Dallas, Texas, USA Hi, BeePeople - While catching up on my email, I noticed that this thread has generated the same response prob half the time - namely, "Don't kill the bees" or "why do you want to kill the bees". Let me put my 2 cents in ..... Africanized colonies , we have found, are very difficult to requeen. It all boils down to "how many mated queens are you willing to sacrifice" to keep one bucketfull of bees alive. While the attempt is being made, the bees tempers do not change, so you need a secure location while you try. Usually, if neighbors are an issue, I feel it best to clean out the colony (a beevac or shopvac) reload with known bees or stack on a colony that needs the room, and move on. -- Opinions are mine - John ----------------------------------------------------------- John F. Edwards Carl Hayden Bee Research Center Tucson, Arizona 85719 http://198.22.133.109/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 12:31:56 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: pc Subject: fairly new bee keeper needs help Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I love my bees so please HELP! I purchased 7 nuc's the first part of April 99. they were treated just before I bought them. within 2 weeks of that I had ordered, built and setup 7 hivebodies with 7supers. I moved the 7 nuc's one at a time into a new hive setup. all of what I moved from the nuc's looked dark and I did not move the bees around I just moved the frames into the hives and filled the remaining slot with new frames and left the bees alone. having had disturbed them twice already I did not want to make them anymore unhappy. all but 3 hives seem to be doing good. lots of activity. 2 slow and 1 hardly at all. I have put out a feeding pan with wintergreen oil and sugar syrup and all are eating that in conjunction with foraging. this area has miles and miles of open natural fields and lots of trees. there are orchards within 5 miles also. here is my problem(S) since I am very new at this I have since learned what I have already made mistakes and want to go forward correctly. I have so many questions and NO one to ask. it is by accident that I have found this place. I live in a very isolated area in the central valley foothills of California, USA. I can find no one interested in bees or keeping them. the bees in the orchards are rented from out of state. I have read allot of books but would rather talk to someone. is there anyone in the California area - Stockton, Sacramento, or Modesto that keeps bees and would like to give me some tips. anyone else that would like to give me some information I am open to that too. awaiting the help of the old timers and the views of all. sincerely, patty2@caltel.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 16:14:21 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Stefan Stangaciu Subject: Re: 2nd query MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Amy Thomson wrote: >Interesting that thyme honey is a good antibiotic, thyme oil (thymol) is an >extremely potent antibacterial agent. (It's one of the main ingredients of >the mouthwash Listerine). I wonder if enough of the thymol is getting into >the honey to have an effect? For medicinal purposes it is always possible to add natural thyme oil into honey. What ratio? A possible, strong one is 10-15 drops to 50 grams of honey. These type of mixtures combines the healing properties of honey to the ones of essential oils. In other words, its a combination between apitherapy and aromatherapy, so we can call it: "api-aromatherapy". In my country (Romania) we have already several types of these "api-aromo" medicinal honeys very useful in the treatment of many human diseases. I believe these types of mixtures can be later exploited not only for human diseases but also for veterinary ones. The bees should benefit too... Hope this helps! Sincerely, Stefan Stangaciu, MD, LAcup. apither@gmb.ro ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 08:12:53 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Tracking the Buzz In-Reply-To: <199906081206.IAA20881@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 03:11 PM 6/6/1999 -0700, you wrote: David Malachy commented on an article in Popular Science and on our work, both to the list and to me. To set the record straight. The British technology was pioneered by Joe Riley and others - and it works for a large array of insect studies. In Canada it has been used on butterflies and other flying insects. If you really want to know whether things like transgenic plants effect free-flying insects, you need some tools to find out where they are going. However, the British system is too expensive for routine use. We are using a variation on this theme that is much less expensive and have added some other microelectronic technologies. These are real, not science fiction. With respect to some comments that we have recieved about posting our work to the list. I have not posted any of the articles on bees finding things like landmines to this list, nor have I sent any such postings to individual members of this list, unless asked to do so. Our purpose is to build on the bee's proven capability to find things. Landmines are just one of the things on our wish list. We are just as interested in using bees to find useful things. The landmine issue got press coverage because one of our research partners specializes in finding mines. The original article profiled Sandia's overall landmine effort and mentioned that they were looking at the cycling of explosives from water through soil to plants and to bees. We know that happens, we have hard data to that effect. Whether we can train bees to find landmines remains to be seen. All landmines leak, but do they leak substances that bees can detect by odor or some other means is one of the questions being investigated. >Popular Science, Febuary 1977 reports: > >"BEES AND OTHER pollinators are disappearing >in distressing numbers worldwide, so British >researchers are experimenting with a harmless >way to track the insects and gather informat- >ion that could help preserve them. A radar >tracking system emits a signal; an antenna >weighing only three milligrams that's affixed >to a bee reradiates the frequency, so the >insect's travel can be monitored." Institute >of Arable Crops Research-Rothamsted, Harpenden, >Hertfordshire, AL5 2JQ, England. > >An interesting addition to the effort documented >by Dr. Jerry Bromshenk at University of Montana. >I thought it was a joke? Nevertheless, how far >could this reseach get? > >dm > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 09:54:46 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: amy thomson Subject: Re: willow pollen and colony build up In-Reply-To: <199906072252.SAA13394@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I don't have any of the answers, only more questions. Why only male clones? >Are they more productive of biomass than females? I have not noticed that >male willows are bigger than females. I wasn't aware that willows were dioecious (separate male and female plants, rather than both male and female flower parts on the same plant - monoecious) but if there are male and female willow plants, it will be the male that produces the pollen. Female (only) plants don't produce pollen. If a plant is monoecious, then you get both pollen and nectar (if plant produces nectar, that is). Most plants are monoecious. Amy Thomson ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 18:23:55 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: GM CROPS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for the very informative reply from Allen Dick on Canola modified by traditional methods to be resistant to a particular herbicide. What happens the following years when seed spilled in harvesting germinates and is a weed in other crops? You can't use the herbicide to get rid of it. Is there any transfer of the resistance to closely related weed species such as charlock (I don't know whether this grows in Canada but it is very common in UK) Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 21:44:25 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Becky or Al S Boehm Subject: brood space Hello Bee-list One of my colonies has changed in the last three weeks. This is what I have observed, 2 deep bodies for brood chambers then a queen excluder then four short supers for extraction a very high bee population. Three weeks ago the bees stopped working the top super,this with a abundant flow on (other hives doing great). When I checked again at 1 week later still no nectar or honey in the top super, so I went down in the hive and found no eggs or brood but still a high bee population. Yesterday (week 3) I again opened this hive and still found no eggs larve or queen (impossible with high bee numbers, and the bees have filled the lower brood bodies (both of them) with honey. Now I know why they wernt working the top super which they just started on. I put on a shallow super in between the two hive bodies to prepare to move a couple frames of eggs and larve from another hive to see if they need to raise a queen. But and this is the question, will the bees move the honey up to give the queen room to lay or will they be honey bound? should I extract the second brood body and give it back to them, reversing to put the empty on the bottom? What is the status of the honey coming from brood frames that have been treated with apistan over the last 3 years spring and fall? This list information keeps me pumped, so glad I can garner much wisdom and opinions for the reading. thanks in advance Al Boehm Columbus NC USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 22:39:45 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pollinator@AOL.COM Subject: Re: brood space MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 99-06-08 22:04:50 EDT, beckwards@juno.com (Becky or Al S Boehm) wrote: << I again opened this hive and still found no eggs larve or queen (impossible with high bee numbers, and the bees have filled the lower brood bodies (both of them) with honey. Now I know why they wernt working the top super which they just started on. I put on a shallow super in between the two hive bodies to prepare to move a couple frames of eggs and larve from another hive to see if they need to raise a queen. >> Betcha they swarmed. Several of my big strong colonies that were making honey like crazy got the idea during the rainy spell. When the honeyflow resumed after the rain, they didn't resume making honey. Later they go back to it, but at a slower pace, because they don't have near as many bees. You likely have a virgin queen running around in the brood chamber, though she could have made her mating flight (and even could have been eaten by a bird or dragonfly on the flight). When I find a hive that has gone up, I routinely give them some brood. It will get them back into productivity sooner at the least, and if anything prevented mating, or the new queen is missing, gives them another chance at raising a queen before they dwindle too far. (It also helps to keep them from getting mean.) <> Yes the bees will give the queen room as needed, as she begins laying. I don't think they move it around so much as to use it up in rearing brood. I've heard it takes a cell of honey and a cell of pollen to raise a new bee, so they'll have a net gain in space, if this is true, and if they are putting new honey above. The ingredient in apistan is not water soluable, so I wouldn't worry about eating honey myself. The standards for sale are stricter, as they should be. So I wouldn't see any harm to extracting some. In the spring, if all the frames are full, I like to stick in some empty comb right in the middle, so the queen can have lots of empty cells to fill. It's getting late enough now so I am not likely to do this, but perhaps your flow is still going on. Ours is over, down on the coast. Dave Green SC USA The Pollination Home Page http://www.pollinator.com The Pollination Scene http://members.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop on the Internet (honey & beeswax candles) http://members.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 23:20:24 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bobbi and David Organization: Longmeadow Farm Subject: Just a few more questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello all, About a month ago I posted the question "Now what did I do wrong", = thanks to all for the replies. Now for a couple more questions. Of the = 4 packages that I installed ( A B C & D), originally the bees from B = went to A and the bees from D went to C. Ok, bad queens or whatever = reason, they moved. I purchased 2 Nucs to replace them (determined to = make this work). On hives A & C they have 2 deeps and 1 medium by this = point. However, (finally comes the question) hives B & D are struggling = along, C has 2 deeps and D still just 1 with 4 full empty frames. Is it = time to requeen? Take brood from A & C and put into B & D? I'm in NH = and don't have a long season to try alot of tricks. I hope that I have = given enough info and not bored ya to tears. One other question while = I'm at it. Are there standars in place as to what qualifies as a hive = for pollination? ie. 3 frames of brood, etc. Can it be 1st year bees or = is it better for 2nd and on? Thanks for listening Dave ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 22:52:53 -0600 Reply-To: fltdeck1@ix.netcom.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Matthew Subject: Swarmy swarm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here's a short story I hope some of you will enjoy: Yesterday a homeowner called me for a swarm. After unloading all my gear & placing the blanket below the tree, the homeowners came out with their kids and everyone asked me a bunch of questions about all the bee-excitement. After the third or fourth one, the bees suddenly began dispersing like they were on fire. Since I was standing there with nozzle in hand watching my prey fly away, I stopped talking mid-sentence and switched on the BeeVac. Within a minute I had a good 1/2 of the bees - but did they ever act like they didn't want to be there. I've never heard such a roar from a small group of bees. The remainder filled the air and started traveling down the row of houses. After they got about 4 houses away, they must have realized the queen didn't join their flight and began to turn around. After 1/2 hour, all the bees returned to the tree and then to the BeeVac box which I removed and placed just below. All the bees were mine inside of an hour. It just goes to show that sometimes it pays to talk later. Matthew Westall - Castle Rock, CO ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 01:27:11 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Paula Franke Subject: Re: GM Crops MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris Slade wrote: >Thanks for the very informative reply from Allen Dick on Canola modified by >traditional methods to be resistant to a particular herbicide. What happens >the following years when seed spilled in harvesting germinates and is a weed >in other crops? You can't use the herbicide to get rid of it. Is there any >transfer of the resistance to closely related weed species such as charlock >(I don't know whether this grows in Canada but it is very common in UK) I was also very happy to read Allen's well thought out response on this question. I've been closely following the subject for some time now, and the more I learn the more worried I get, due to the profound lack of studies (read: complete disregard for the environment in order to make a fast buck). I'm still trying to keep an open mind on the subject, but it keeps getting harder all the time. And a lot of times these days, I begin to think that all of my editorializing on the subject is for naught. Somehow I can't help but think we are standing at the precipice of something even worse than what Rachel Carson predicted in her 1963 book Silent Spring. This time it can be a true Pandora's Box. Perhaps my problem is that I worry too much. On the other hand, it's probably better than worrying too little. On the positive front, it's the beekeepers, as an agricultural group on the whole (compared to other ag groups), who are beginning to ask the hard questions. One hopes that the powers that be will listen up before it's too late. As I posted to sci.agriculture.beekeeping a couple of weeks ago, the US EPA apparently has enough concerns about the possibility of pests building a resistance to Bt that they have scheduled a public workshop on the subject on June 18 in Chicago. So, there is at least one US agency that is beginning to see the light. Really wish I could be there for the meeting, but I have a minor surgery planned for that day. is there anyone in the Chicago area who can spare a day for this? Paula pfranke@kih.net or pfranke@agdomain.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 17:00:23 PDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Re: 2nd. query In-Reply-To: <199906070523.BAA29926@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Stefan wrote > Honey has powerful antibacterial properties, according to its origin >(the best one seem to be thyme honey), but, in my personal opinion, it would >be better to consider it as a potentially very good LOCAL antibiotic (like >is the case in the treatment of wounds, burns and scalds) and not so much as >a "systemic" antibiotic. Been away for a few days so was not able to respond earlier. Can Stefan please provide a reference for where thyme honey has been tested and shown ot have these powereful antibacterial properties I was also interested in Stefan's post where he was saying to look at what plant the honey came from to determine its antibacterial properties. I would also like to have a reference for this work. Here in Australia, our some of our melaleucas have tea tree oil distilled from them which is supposed to be good but the honey from at least one, which I have had tested, shows no activity nor peroxide activity. We will be able to market some of honey's in the future for wound dressings but we will have to prove that they have the activity. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 10:34:51 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Bees clustering MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "...they are clustering on the hive entrance as if they don't have enough room to get into the hive.' 'Should I be concerned by the bunch at the entrance?" This is not unusual, and such clusters can often reach very large proportions. Sometimes they are called "hive beards". In my opinion, what is going on is that the bees do not have sufficient room inside the hive to ventilate, therefore evaporating the nectar and keeping the hive cool. I believe that this clustering also leads to reduced nectar collection and sometimes (but not always) swarming. Many years ago I was told that the way to reduce or eliminate these clusters was to provide plenty of upper entrance room; therefore improving ventilation. There are many ways of doing this, including steps as simple as propping up the outer cover with stones or pieces of wood. It works, meaning that with good upper ventilation the beards all but disappear and, in my opinion, nectar collection increases. Lloyd Lloyd Spear Owner, Ross Rounds(tm). The finest in comb honey production. http://www.rossrounds.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 10:34:54 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Herbicide resistent crops MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris asked, "What happens the following years when seed spilled in harvesting germinates and is a weed in other crops? You can't use the herbicide to get rid of it." To the best of my knowledge, and I have done a fair amount of reading on the subject, these seeds are specifically developed so that the herbicide resistance will not continue into the 2nd generation. The idea is that the farmer must buy these seeds every year and cannot grow his own. Sort of like "seedless watermelon seeds", which sound like an oxymoron, but have been around for 40 years. In my personal view, the herbicide resistance is not a potential problem for the environment. A different argument is whether a private company should be able to profit from such a development and potentially (through pricing) withhold the food benefits from poor countries. But that argument is all wrapped up in socialism vrs capitalism. The insect resistant crops are altogether a different matter. While many many plants contain natural insecticides that protect them from attack, I don't think the existence of these natural defenses is sufficient argument to say that reproducing the same defenses by genetic means is not without danger to our environment. IMHO, the jury is still out on this one. Lloyd Lloyd Spear Owner, Ross Rounds(tm). The finest in comb honey production. http://www.rossrounds.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 10:58:30 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Van Roekel Subject: Re: Herbicide resistent crops In-Reply-To: <199906091446.KAA16186@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" All, >Chris asked, "What happens the following years when seed spilled in >harvesting germinates and is a weed in other crops? You can't use the >herbicide to get rid of it." Lloyd Spear: >To the best of my knowledge, and I have done a fair amount of reading on the >subject, these seeds are specifically developed so that the herbicide >resistance will not continue into the 2nd generation. The idea is that the >farmer must buy these seeds every year and cannot grow his own. With genetically modified crops such as soybeans, herbicide resistance is carried to future generations. Thus the requirement for growers to sign a contract, when purchasing seed, agreeing not to save seed for planting the following year -- a common practice with self pollinating crops such as soybeans. A number of suits have been filled (and won) by the herbicide/seed company (ies) against farmers who have done just that. Some of the research I have read about recently also indicates that some crops (canola) may cross with wild or weedy relatives which produces progeny that have some of these GM traits. Most of the studies seem to have been done in the greenhouse artificially, and may not be a problem in the field. I do have some concerns with GM crops. Not so much with the food products from them, but with how long these modifications will be effective in the field. Just like the buildup of resistant foulbrood, due I believe to the consistant use of only one medication, in addition to the misuse such as too low a dosage, constant preventative use etc. Another concern is the effect pollen and nectar from these plants have on the health of the hive. Bill Central Iowa, USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 10:02:50 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dan Brown Subject: Drone Layer I have what appears to be a drone-laying queen, and I'm wondering what to do about it. This particular hive threw at least one and possibly two swarms three or four weeks ago. Since then we have had (as we typically do here in the Seattle area) many cold rainy days interspersed with a few sunny ones. When I checked the hive last night I found solid sheets of brood in all stages of development, BUT everything that was sealed had the typical bullet shaped cappings of drone cells. There were some fairly large solid sheets of sealed drone brood. So I assume that what happened is that the virgin queen that resulted from the swarm(s) failed to mate adequately during the rainy periods. My question is, can I simply requeen in the ordinary way? Would it be better to give the hive a comb of eggs and hope they'll superscede the drone-layer, or should I buy a queen and try to introduce her after dispatching the drone-layer> Thanks for your opinions... Dan Brown danbr@microsoft.com Western Washington State ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 13:09:16 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: herbicide resistent crops MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bill said "With genetically modified crops such as soybeans, herbicide resistance is carried to future generations. Thus the requirement for growers to sign a contract, when purchasing seed, agreeing not to save seed for planting the following year -- a common practice with self pollinating crops such as soybeans." I stand corrected. It turns out my information was based on corn (maize), which is not self-pollinating. Lloyd Lloyd Spear Owner, Ross Rounds(tm). The finest in comb honey production. http://www.rossrounds.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 13:40:22 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Drone Layer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Think about the age of the bees in the colony. Are they worth saving? If the colony swarmed 3-4 weeks ago, no brood was laid a week prior to that, meaning 4-5 weeks ago. With a gestation period of 3 weeks (21 days) for worker bees and an average adult life of just 6 weeks - WHAT CAN YOU SAVE. It is very difficult to get a group of foraging age bees to accept a new queen, so you might be spending $10 for nothing. This is why I always keep a nuc "hanging around" my apiary, so I have a free queen to use as I see fit just in case I lose a swarm or, etc. Hope I have made you think it out. Good Luck! George Imirie ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 14:17:52 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Musashi Subject: Re: Drone Layer Dan Brown writes: "better to give the hive a comb of eggs and hope they'll superscede the drone-layer, or should I buy a queen and try to introduce her after dispatching the drone-layer"? >From my personal experience, I had a drone layer but thought my hive was queenless so I added a frame of brood with eggs. They did not produce a new queen to supercede her. They just raised them out into workers. I then introduced a new queen in a cage and when she finally got out, they balled and killed her. That was when I finally searched relentlessly until I found the drone-laying queen and removed her when I had another mated queen in the mail. My introduction after removing the drone layer was successful, but I lost about a month during that time. That hive didn't become productive until the following year. Layne Westover College Station, Texas ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 15:29:36 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: James Ralston Subject: no queen in hive after departing swarm? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi everyone, I'm an amateur beekeeper with one hive. I had planned to split the hive early this spring, but unfortunately, I was caught up in work-related things, and my bees went ahead and conducted the split for me. :( The departing swarm stayed within the apiary for a week or so, but they were too high up in the tree they'd selected to allow me to capture them. (Not without shotgunning the base of their branch off, at any rate. I was almost tempted to try.) Anyway, so the next weekend after the swarm departed the hive, I went into the old hive to look for evidence of a queen. I didn't check every single frame, but I yanked 4 frames from the core of the brood chamber. I saw empty swarm cells, and capped drone brood (no doubt laid by the old queen, before she started to slim down). But there were no eggs, no larvae, and no capped worker brood. And the hive itself, while not necessarily mean, seemed a bit grumpy. So I checked again last weekend. The capped drone brood had emerged, but as before, their were no eggs, no larvae, and no capped brood. And this time, the hive was definitely mean. After the first weekend, I had hoped that there was a virgin queen in the hive, and she just hadn't started laying yet. But now, I think it's more likely that the virgin queen met with an untimely demise during one of her mating flights. If I had another hive, I'd swap a frame with some eggs on it, and see if the hive reared a new queen, but that's not an option. The only things I can think of to do are either 1) wait another week or so, on the off chance there is a queen in there and she just hasn't started laying yet, or 2) obtain a replacement queen and put her in the hive. If there truly is no queen in that hive, the bees should accept a new queen readily. Does anyone have any words of wisdom? Barring that, does anyone have advice on what type of queen would be appropriate for southwestern Pennsylvania, where our winters are sometimes not so mild? (I started this hive from a nuc I bought from a local beekeeper, who was raising his own queens last year; I have no experience in purchasing commercially reared queens.) Thanks, James ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 07:42:00 -0500 Reply-To: "David D. Scribner" Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "David D. Scribner" Subject: Puff Ball a Varroa Knocker? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In reviewing a book (Plants and Beekeeping, by F.N. Howes, 1979 ed.) for a project I'm working on, I ran across the following information on the Puff Ball mushroom (Lycoperdon giganteum)... "The smoke from it has long been used for stupefying bees, the fungus first cut into slices and dried in the sun before being burned. There is reference to its being used in this way by 'skeppists' in the older bee literature. In more recent years its use as smoker fuel has been suggested... (Bee World, 1936, 6)." I know that there are some beekeepers that occasionally use Tobacco leaves in their smokers to "narcotize" the Varroa mites in infested hives, causing them to dislodge from the bees and fall to the bottom board, where they are then trapped by a sticky-board that has been put in place. My question is... Has there been any research done on the effects of the Puff Ball mushroom, when used in such a way, on Varroa mites? I'm just curious if the smoke from the burning fungus would have the same, or similar, affects on this mite as Tobacco smoke does. --David Scribner Niche on the Net! - PS - I've added another web page to my collection of bee pages at my site, a "B-keeping Glossary". My hopes are that it will provide many with an extensive reference glossary on beekeeping terms, phrases or words. I welcome any and all comments, criticisms, additions, corrections or ideas on how to better the page (or any of my pages). ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 23:11:04 +0100 Reply-To: John Burgess Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Burgess Subject: Re: GM CROPS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris Slade asks: . > What happens the following years when seed spilled in harvesting >germinates and is a weed in other crops? You can't use the herbicide to get >rid of it. > GM modified canola is only resistant to one specific herbicide. It remains sensitive to many others so that it can easily be killed off if needed. This has just been done to destroy a trial crop in the UK. There are many causes for concern about GM, but this isn't one of them. John Burgess, Editor Gwenynwyr Cymru/The Welsh Beekeeper pencaemawr@bigfoot.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 16:41:56 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Stefan Stangaciu Subject: Thyme honey. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Can Stefan please provide a reference for where thyme honey has been tested and shown ot have these powereful antibacterial properties >Trevor Weatherhead >AUSTRALIA Hello dear Trevor and Bee-L friends, The antibacterial properties of honey is for sure a very interesting and long to discuss subject. In two Apimondia Congresses (1995 and 1997), Prof. Descottes of Limoges, France spoke about the use of honey in the wounds treatment. I will have a look as soon as possible on his work and send all of you more details. What I was told from one of Prof. Descottes team members is that they mix honey with thyme oil in order to obtain a stronger antibacterial effect. Here are some references related to thyme honey: >From MEDLINE: J Altern Complement Med 1996 Fall;2(3):345-8 Effect of honey versus thyme on Rubella virus survival in vitro. Zeina B, Othman O, al-Assad S Teshreen Hospital, Damascus, Syria. In this paper, we assess the antiviral properties of honey solutions and thyme extracts at varying concentrations. This was done by testing these solutions in vitro using monkey kidney cell cultures that were infected with the Rubella virus. Our results indicated that honey had good anti-Rubella activity, while thyme did not. These results may justify the continuing use of honey in traditional medicines from different ethnic communities worldwide and in some modern medications such as cough syrups. PMID: 9395668, UI: 98051851 >From the Apitherapy Reference Data Base: Persano Oddo Livia, Baldi,E., Accorti,M. (1990) (Italy) - Diastasic activity in some unifloral honeys, in Apidologie 21(6), p.17-24. Tan,S.T., Wilkins,A.L. and Reid,G.M. (1990) - A Chemical Procedure for the Characterization of New Zealand Thyme and Willow Honeys, in New Zealand Beekeeper, February. Tan,S.T., Wilkins,A.L., Holland,P.T. and McGhie,T.K. (1990) - Extractives from New Zealand honeys. 3. Unifloral thyme and willow honey, in Journal of Agricultural and Food Chemistry 38 (9), p.1833-1838. Drimjias,N., Karabournioti Sophia (1995) (Greece) - Characteristics of Greek thymus honey, in Apiacta XXX, # 2, pp.33-39. Karabournioti Sophia, Drimjias,N. (1997) (Greece) - Some Physicochemical Characteristics of Greek Monofloral Honeys, in Apiacta XXXII, #2, p.44-50. Hope this helps! Stefan Stangaciu. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 22:02:19 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pollinator@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Drone Layer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/9/99 1:23:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time, danbr@microsoft.com writes: > So I assume that what happened is that the virgin queen that resulted from > the swarm(s) failed to mate adequately during the rainy periods. > > My question is, can I simply requeen in the ordinary way? Would it be > better to give the hive a comb of eggs and hope they'll superscede the > drone-layer, or should I buy a queen and try to introduce her after > dispatching the drone-layer> You are probably right on the queen not mating. But giving them a queen will likely waste a queen. If they are still quite strong, give them a couple frames of brood with some eggs from a good colony. They'll raise a queen that they will accept. If they have dwindled, use it as a super on a good hive. If you insist on giving them a queen, give them some brood anyway. That way you'll have some young bees to care for the queen .....or.....eggs to raise a queen after they kill the introduced one. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html The Pollination Home Page: http://www.pollinator.com Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 21:48:30 -0500 Reply-To: daves@mo-net.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: dave sparkman Subject: drones MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am new to the list, and I am new to bee keeping. I accumulated two old empty hives my dad used to use. A friend of mine ordered us some bees and he helped me put them in the first of april. One of the hives of bees are doing great. They started hanging out a couple of weeks ago, so I put another hive body on top. The other hive started to have some hang out on the front of it , but not very many. So I put a hive body on it. there was some honey bilt up in the middle, almost sticking through the hole in the cover. Any way , my problem is there is one hive doing well. When it starts to get dark, it sounds like a chain saw running . The other however is so quite you can hardly hear it. When I set and watch the bees come and go, there are a lot of drones coming and going in the weak hive. There is about 30 bees at the opening at any one time. Should I look to see if there is any brood or do any of you think the queen is probably OK , and I am just overly concerned. thanks for any info Dave in south west Missouri ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 23:11:23 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Walk-Away Splits In-Reply-To: <199905071751.NAA18293@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Well, at risking overdoing a good thing, here's some more on walk-away > splits: > > > I'm more interested in how your split 'em and walk away > queens turn out. > > We've done walk-away splits it before with good results. The > major problem is the 21-day queenless period, so they have > to happen early to make it for the flow. Well, here's a bit more on the subject of splitting and the various methods of providing a new queen to the queenless half. Right now, that 21-day queenless period mentioned above is starting to look pretty tolerable compared to reality in some cases we have seen lately. Maybe I would be better to sit back and keep the results to myself, since they are not what we all like to think we are capable of, but sometimes, s*it happens and it rains and rains and, to top that, it is cold and windy. It's been a lousy spring for queen introductions of any kind here in my part of Central Alberta, and we've had less than great luck with either mated queens or cells. I can only be thankfull that we haven't had more than a few days pass in a row without sunny breaks to provide good mating opportunities and a chance for the bees to get out and forage a bit. Believe it or not, our best luck seems to be the walk-away spits we made. I'll have to admit right here that they were not 100% simon-pure walk-aways; in most cases we introduced ripe cells in protectors later as insurance. At any rate, it seems either the cells were not up to snuff, or the bees preferred their own emergency cells, judging by how long it has taken to get mated queens showing up in the hives. Of course we don't know for certain which queen made the grade, but when it takes almost a month to get definite signs of a resident queen, the assumption has to be that it was an emergency cell that succeeded, not the introduced cell(s). It is interesting to note how differently hives respond to queenlessness. Some of the splits built many handsome looking cells, some only one, and some others, none that we could spot. Nonetheless, some of the latter came up with a good queen. Don't ask me how. Anyhow, I've spent weeks wondering about this process and bought a ton of books, most of which I have read and marked up. This will be the subject of another post. Our grafted cells were generally pretty good, but, with the weather we've had, I know some were a little short on provisions. I always like to hatch some of the queens from each batch in the incubator and see how they look after emergence and how long it takes before they start to lose energy before offering them honey. It gives some idea of how well they were fed before sealing. If they just hatch, walk around for a few minutes and fall over, I reckon they were not well enough fed, regardless of how big they are. FWIW, with the JZ BZ cups, we can easily see the extra food at the top of the cell, and I did see some that did not have that reddish brown crust in there. Our luck with mated queens was not any better. We lost most of the first 100 we bought before they were even installed due to as problem with the queen candy, which was runny and had strange effects on the queens. It almost seemed the candy was toxic, and the accompanying bees died off after a few days, and the rescued queens went shortly after. Providing them with fresh bees did not save them. The second batch of mated queens was okay, even though the candy was excessively soft (so soft that we could not make a distinct hole through it). 27 out of 80 in that group failed to be accepted. Some laid and disappeared, some simply were not there several weeks after introduction. As often happens, I got to see one dizzy queen running around inside her mailing cage 10+ days after introduction with nothing whatsoever blocking the tunnel. She could have walked out anytime. So, although we have not finished all our checks, we have noticed approximately 30% failure in the first attempt for all the methods, measured at a little less than one month after splitting. As far as salvaging the operation, the walk-away hives are the easiest to deal with, since we have simply inserted a frame with eggs and young larvae at each check and know that eventually we will have success. When we have extra grafted cells, we tuck one of them in too for good measure. As for the ones with the mated queens introduced, some of them eventually came up with a queen from the eggs some of them laid before leaving the planet. The rest got a cell or a frame of eggs and young larvae or both. I'm sure glad that I'm not making the third attempt on such hives to get them to take another $10 (US) queen after they somehow 'lost' the first one or two. One thing about this lousy weather is that the bees are not wearing themselves out flying around. They seem to be getting a bit of a flow now and then and the rest of the time they are saving themselves. Even the queenless halves required a second box some time back as the brood from before the splitting continued to hatch, and we will be putting on thirds in a week or two. So all in all, the hives seem good and strong. It would just be nice if they all had laying queens. allen ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 22:06:59 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: harold37@EAGNET.COM Subject: Re: Drone Layer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: Dan Brown To: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Date: Wednesday, June 09, 1999 1:34 PM Subject: Drone Layer >I have what appears to be a drone-laying queen, and I'm wondering what to do >about it. > Don't waste good money & Queens on a known drone-laying hive. Take the hive out of the yard, shake out the bees and start over. Harold >danbr@microsoft.com >Western Washington State ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 20:45:04 -0600 Reply-To: fltdeck1@ix.netcom.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Matthew Subject: Drones thick in a feral hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, Yesterday I pulled out a hive which looked to be at least two years old from the age of the comb (3 years by the account of the homeowner). In removing the bees and salvaging the comb I found 1/3 to 1/2 of the brood was capped drone. The pattern for the worker-brood was nearly perfect with the only 'spotted' cells already filled with honey or pollen. This feral hive made up roughly two deeps full and heavy on worker bees - great for this time of year in our climate (Colorado, USA). I didn't see any mites on the workers nor in the drone brood which was cut in the removal. My question is, why are there so MANY drones from what appears to be an excellent queen? Unless I'm Q-rearing, should I toss the frames of drones? Normally I'll salvage all brood using rubber-bands to hold 'cut & fitted' comb to frames. Thanks for your input! Matthew Westall - Castle Rock, CO ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 10:47:39 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: FAITHAB@AOL.COM Subject: Very small sized bee suit MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi - does anyone know where I can buy a very small (size 5) bee suit for a child and have it delivered in about two weeks? Thanks! Faith Andrews Bedford, Ivy VA and Tampa ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 17:54:56 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Re: How to kill AHB without damaging comb MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi John/All John - you mention you need to get rid of some AHB in a hive, but don't want to lose the combs. I would do the following: - go to the hive at night, tape up all little cracks etc including the entrance. Then drill a hole into the box large enough to put a hose into. Connect the hose to your car exhaust and then just leave your car running for an hour. This kills the bees - not it is not Carbon monoxide that kills the bees as is the case with humans and exhaust fumes - the bees just suffocate from lack of oxygen. If you have a big car it won't work because the fumes are too hot. Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis 6139 South Africa Time = Honey ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 17:40:44 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: Entrance excluders MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi All Just noticed your mentionings of these exluders (Mathew/Richard) In South Africa a lot of beekeepers who keep Apis mellifera scutellata use these entrance exluders. I have about four or so hives that have the entrance fittings for them but have long removed them as they really hammer the bees after a while. In the eucalyptus honey flow they stop unwanted swarms for short whiles, but they seriously interfere with your bees. They rapidly become blocked with drones, which the bees have to chew up to get out. They make it difficult for the bees to remove dead workers, they knock of pollen baskets and so on. So in my opinion they are only good for short time periods, and if you can possibly avoid using them your bees will be happier. Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis 6139 South Africa Time = Honey ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 09:51:54 -0700 Reply-To: ryarnell@orednet.org Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard Yarnell Subject: Re: How to kill AHB without damaging comb CO would be a wonderful odorless, tasteless agent to use. But in auto exhaust, there are so many other contaminants which will persist in the comb, I think some serious consideration be given to this proposal before it's used. There were comments adverse to using sulphur. We treat some fruit in the solar drier at the beginning of the process. While you certainly should avoid getting a lungful of the vapor, the resulting SO2 is permitted for use in foods. Sulfur "buds" or pure elemental sulphur is readily available through your pharmacist. It takes only a small amount. While I've not used it for the purpose, I would suggest putting an empty deep _under_ the colony. Seal any upper story entrances. In a shallow metal container (eg a jar lid) place a tablespoon of sulfur. The brimstone burns on the edges of a molten pool. I use one of those small propane "blowtorches" (they're about the size of a cigarette lighter) to melt one edge and get the flame going. (The flame is blueish and hard to see.) Slide the tin lid into the empty hive body, and leave it alone. >John - you mention you need to get rid of some AHB in a hive, but >don't want to lose the combs. > >I would do the following: - go to the hive at night, tape up all >little cracks etc including the entrance. Then drill a hole into the >box large enough to put a hose into. Connect the hose to your car >exhaust and then just leave your car running for an hour. -- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 12:04:33 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Musashi Subject: Re: How to kill AHB without damaging comb Similar to what Garth describes using car exhaust to kill bees would be to get a tank of CO2 and after closing all entrances and cracks, give them the CO2 from the tank. In the beginning it will knock them out (like an anesthesia ) and then if you continue doing it, they will suffocate. I would imagine bees would probably die pretty fast if they can't breathe. Almost all insects have an automatic response to Carbon Dioxide, which is to breathe more. They can't stop breathing. That is why we always used CO2 to knock out and anesthetize insects before using them in experiements in our insect physiology class. People who collect hornets nests use it to knock out the hornets temporarily while cutting down the nest and putting it in a plastic bag for transport. People who want to safely store grain in an airtight container often will put dry ice in the bottom. As it sublimates and releases CO2, this dispaces the oxygen because the CO2 is heavier than oxygen. Any insects in the grain will be asphyxiated and die. Then you push the lid down tight and will not have any insect problems in the grain. I imagine you could put a piece of dry ice in the bottom of the hive and seal up everything airtight (as much as possible) and also have the same outcome as Garth describes (it ought to take an hour or more for the dry ice to all sublimate). I would think that the dry ice would cause no lingering problems of toxicity or smell, etc. such as might be caused by using petrol (gasoline for Americans) or burning sulfur fumes or one of many other alternatives. I suppose one could even use chloroform if one had any. Dry ice seems to me to be the cheap and easy way to go with no toxic after affects. I probably wouldn't have thought of it except for Garth's post on using car exhaust. Layne Westover College Station, Texas ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 11:45:33 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Entrance excluders In-Reply-To: <199906101615.MAA10216@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Just noticed your mentionings of these exluders... > In South Africa a lot of beekeepers who keep Apis mellifera > scutellata use these entrance exluders. What I want to know -- and I've asked before -- is this: Should we -- or do we -- have different spacings of excluder wire for different species/races of bees? What about those supposedly larger bees that the Europeans claim to get by renewing their combs every year or two? allen ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 08:50:18 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tang Johnston Subject: Re: How to kill AHB without damaging comb Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Garth wrote: John - you mention you need to get rid of some AHB in a hive, but don't want to lose the combs. I would do the following: - go to the hive at night, tape up all little cracks etc including the entrance. Then drill a hole into the box large enough to put a hose into. Connect the hose to your car exhaust and then just leave your car running for an hour. I'm wondering: Why go to all the trouble with the car and hose. If you set the hive in a plastic garbage bag and tie it shut, or plugged all the openings, wouldn't the hive generate enough heat to smother itself? Tang J. Palmer, Alaska // >8(())))> ZZZ \\ Z ZZ ZZ ZZZZ ZZZZZ @--}--}---- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 11:41:58 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: How to kill AHB without damaging comb In-Reply-To: <199906101656.MAA11290@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > There were comments adverse to using sulphur... > While you certainly should avoid getting a lungful of the vapor, > the resulting SO2 is permitted for use in foods.... Sulphur is the traditional method of killing bees in skeps from which honey was to be harvested. As far as hazard, well, I lived in Sudbury Ontario for years, and on a day when we had an inversion, there was a blue haze everywhere. Sulpur dioxide. It didn't seem to harm people much, but until they put up the superstack and sent all that stuff up and far away, the trees around the area were pretty stunted. And when I worked in the Copper Cliff smelter, there were days when you could not see across the street in the compound for SO2. We didn't like it much, but no one seemed to suffer any injury from it. I also remember walking own the converter aisle (the main street of hell) with huge open cauldrons of sulpherous ore glowing white and spewing amazing amounts of SO2 in the process of purification to nickle oxide. The fumes were drawn off the furnaces and down the aisle to the opening of the stack by convection. People worked in there all their lives. AFAIK, there weren't an unusual number of respiratory ailments among them. Toxicity was never considered a problem. I wouldn't worry a bit about using sulphur -- unless you plan to confine yourself in a small space with a lot of it. allen ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 14:05:07 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Drone Layer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kill the drone laying queen. Uncap a few drones and check for varroa. Unite the colony with a sound colony over a sheet of newsprint. Make a split at a later date to replace the "lost" colony. Of all the methods I have tried this works the best so far . When I set the queenless portion on the newsprint in addition to a slit or two I offset the box so they have a way out. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 15:07:51 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Anglin Subject: Re: Very small sized bee suit MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Go to Kmart and buy a "WInd Suit"- A nylon running suit. They are very bee proof, and much less expensive than commercial bee suits. If your heart is set on a commercial one, Brushy mountain sells them! ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, June 10, 1999 7:47 AM Subject: Very small sized bee suit > Hi - does anyone know where I can buy a very small (size 5) bee suit for a > child and have it delivered in about two weeks? Thanks! > > Faith Andrews Bedford, Ivy VA and Tampa > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 15:28:33 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Anglin Subject: Re: Problem Hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am having problems re-queening a hive. I took a split off of my buckfast hives that were getting ready to swarm. I ordered a new queen, and when she arrived, I removed the last queen cell, and placed the queens into the hives with the corks still in place. the next day, when I went to remove the corks, the bees were still being very hostile towards the queens, so I left the corks in, Inspected again for queen cells (Found none)and waited two more days. Two days later, It seemed to be accepting the queen so I removed the cork, and left them alone for about ten days. When I went back in, I found the cage empty, but no sign of the marked queen- no eggs, nothing. The next day I gave them a comb of brood with a queen cell on it, some open larvae and eggs, and a second queen cell just in case. One week later I found the brood sealed, and both queen cells torn down. I hoped that the virgin was still there, so I waited a couple days. I gave them another frame of eggs and brood, just in case. One week later, more sealed brood- no queen cells, no eggs. Last week I gave them another frame of eggs, and once again, they refused to build any queen cells! I searched the entire hive and there is no brood but that I gave them, (Sealed now) and no eggs anywhere! In desperation, I removed 8 frames of bees to weaken this hive, gave them frames of foundation in their place, and put a strong nuc on top with newspaper. I am afraid to look and see if they kill this queen too! How long should I wait before I check? If they do kill her, should I evict them? I am afraid they will move into other hives and kill the queens! This is a strong split, that even after removing bees mostly fills two hive bodies. They are gathering nectar and building comb. What next? Thanks!! Ellen ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 14:37:42 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Scott Moser Subject: Removal of AHB MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, I was reading the posts about killing the AHB hive. I think the best method would be the CO2 introduction. It would create fewer problems in the long run. Dry ice would be an excellent source for the CO2. A college roommate and I can attest to that! It wouldn't take much to accomplish the deed. The trash bag idea is a good one too, but one problem there. The bees will give off tremendous amounts or water vapor as they die, and their bodies will become a gooey, sticky mess. If you use the bag method, I would recommend that you remove it from the bag as soon as you can, separate the bodies, and allow them to air dry a day or two before attempting to clean. I was given a hive that had that treatment, but they didn't open the bag soon enough afterward. What a mess! I had to end up burning that equipment, because I couldn't get it cleaned. Good luck, and keep us posted. Scott Moser " I believe that beekeeping mirrors life. One must endure a few stings to reach the final sweet reward." S. Moser ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 15:52:21 -0400 Reply-To: John Sturman Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Sturman Subject: Summer Short Queen Rearing Course Comments: cc: eurokitusa@msn.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi all, Dr. Bob Horr is holding a course in queen-rearing in Prattsville, NY. June 27, 1999 from 8am to 6pm. This course is for all beekeeping enthusiasts who want to raise their own queens from their own stock. Dr. Horr will guide all participants through each step of modern queen rearing based on his 26 years of experience and successful queen rearing and breeding. After this course you will be able to raise your own queens with little or no investment. You will be able to to manufacture your own basic rearing equipment or successfully use commercially available equipment designed for this purpose. The course will cover the following subjects: * Brief rules of queen rearing * Breeding stock selection methods and fundamentals * Selection of suitable brood for grafting * Basic queen rearing equipment and manufacturing * Grafting techniques and fundamentals * Virgin queens production and introduction to nucs * Mated queens and their successful introduction * Seminar on related topics, i.e., Royal jelly production, etc. * Biological control of mites * Hands-on experience for each participant Each participant will receive: * Basic equipment samples and templates of queen rearing equipment ($20 value) * Written manual of successful queen rearing techniques ($10 value) * Isolated-area mated Vigor Carniolan Queen ($30 value) * Opportunity to purchase queen rearing equipment for special discount prices Breakfast, lunch and afternoon coffee, tea, snack will be served. If you need tol stay overnight, accomodations can be arranged at a nearby hotel for a special rate. Course fee $99.95-paid in advance or $129.95-paid on the day of the course Tuition can be paid by check (made payable to Equinox Bee Studio, Ltd.) or by American Express. To register for this course send the following information plus payment to: Equinox RR 1, Box 114 B-1A Prattsville, NY 12468 Include your name, mailing address, telephone/fax numbers, the name of any beekeeping club you belong to, check amount, or American Express card number, and the expiration date of your card. NOTE:A 10% fee will apply for all cancellations. Bob Z. Horr, D.E., Ph.D. is a American Bee Journal Columnist and Vigor Carniolan promoter and breeder. Prattsville is located in the Northern Catskill Mountains, about 2 1/2 hours from New York City, or 1 1/2 hours from Albany. If you have any questions you may email Bob at eurokitusa@msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 15:50:09 -0500 Reply-To: beeman@midwest.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ken & Margaret Lawrence Subject: Re: Very small sized bee suit MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I hope I can help you with the bee suit. Here is Ed Fishers e-mail address and phone number. He is a bee keeper and he sells bee supplies and suits. DFisher645@aol.com Phone 816- 532-4698 It's Fisher's bee supplies. He lives in Smithville , Mo. Margaret Lawrence ---------- > From: FAITHAB@aol.com > To: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu > Subject: Very small sized bee suit > Date: Thursday, June 10, 1999 9:47 AM > > Hi - does anyone know where I can buy a very small (size 5) bee suit for a > child and have it delivered in about two weeks? Thanks! > > Faith Andrews Bedford, Ivy VA and Tampa ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 15:05:52 -0600 Reply-To: darn@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: darn@FREENET.EDMONTON.AB.CA Subject: Re: How to kill AHB without damaging comb In-Reply-To: <199906101752.NAA13213@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In the olden days (when the world was young) beekeepers in Alberta routinely killed ALL their bees in the fall and started over each spring with new package bees from the United States. The method used was to put a tablespoon of Cyanogas (powdered calcium cyanide) on a sheet of cardboard which was then slid inside the hive. The moisture in the air reacts to form HCN gas which kills the bees almost instantaneously. The gas dissipates and leaves the combs undamaged. Best regards, Donald Aitken Edmonton Alberta Canada ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 14:53:07 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: To kill AHB without damaging comb Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" "Musashi" provided what seems to me to be the best way (use CO2) to kill a colony of bees without destroying the combs. We had to kill a great many colonies and used methyl chloroform (no longer available). The bees became immediately anaesthetized. By keeping all openings closed up, they they suffocated. CO2 is a good alternative, since just about anyone can get a supply --- either by using dry ice, by purchasing a tank of CO2, or by simply using a CO2 fire extinguisher. Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 963-8508 (home phone) 967 Garcia Road (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 **************************************************************************** ********** * * "The most difficult task of the scientist is to suspend judgment about what is * true and what is not." * (Susan Cozzens, 1985) * **************************************************************************** ********** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 19:43:26 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Harry Goudie Subject: Re: 2nd. query MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >We will be able to market some of honey's in the future for wound dressings but we will have to prove that they have the activity. Although I believe honey does have antibacterial properties the reason it is good for wound dressings is because of its ability to desiccate infecting cells. I believe that sugar or syrup will achieve much the same results. Harry ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 03:06:49 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: GM Crops MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Genetic Modification can take many forms. In the canola we > pollinate in Southern Alberta, I believe that two simple > traditional factors are involved: selection, and > hybridization. There is no injection of human genes, BT > emulation, or any such questionable activity -- AFAIK. It seems I am in error here. After writing this on a Saturday, I thought, the next business day, that I'd best verify my facts with the company that produces the seed. It took a day or two to get through to the right person, but when I did, I learned that, although the methods I mention are important, gene splicing is also used. Specifically, I am told that genes from a bacterium is used to provide the herbicide resistance, and thus the plants we pollinate are described as a transgenic canola. My contact at the company was most forthcoming and offered to get me touch with those who could provide more details of the process, but I confess that my interest in the matter is at this time limited to making sure that I do not mislead the list on this important detail. I suppose I should be more interested in the topic -- and I am very glad that there are some that are -- but I am afraid the whole matter and it's details and possible implications are beyond my capacity to comprehend. At present, at least. allen ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 15:37:41 +1300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Molan Subject: Antibacterial activity of thyme honey Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" RE: >Can Stefan please provide a reference for where thyme honey has been tested and shown ot have these powereful antibacterial properties >Trevor Weatherhead >AUSTRALIA See: Allen, K. L.; Molan, P. C.; Reid, G. M. (1991) "The variability of the antibacterial activity of honey." Apiacta 26 (4): 114-121. (But this study showed that thyme honey was not all that good.) Regards, Peter Molan Dr. P.C. Molan Associate Professor of Biochemistry Director, Honey Research Unit Department of Biological Sciences University of Waikato Private Bag 3105 Hamilton New Zealand Telephone +64 7 838 4325 Fax +64 7 838 4324 Visit our pages on honey at http://www.bio.waikato.ac.nz/honey ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 23:47:16 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: WUhlman@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Problem Hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Ellen. I, too had a similar problem with the Buckfasts. I've kept them for several years and found them to be very prolific and productive---for the first generation. Thereafter they presented the problems you describe. Mine got very mean. Reluctantly, I switched back to gentle Italians. They don't build up as fast and don't produce as outstanding a brood pattern, and don't produce as much honey but I have happier neighbors and fewer stings! My two hives are in downtown Seattle. Wes Uhlman ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 20:45:32 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Scott Moser Subject: Washboarding/Hanging out MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello all, Recently, a post was made asking about bees hanging out on the front of the hive. A reply was posted that this is often seen, and in their opinion, the bees actually did less work when they exhibited this behavior. I have two hives, side by side, relatively equal in number of bees and setup. One of the hives has thousands of bees crawling around and washboarding on the front of the hive. Worried, I checked, and found no signs of possible swarming. They have plenty of room, and the tops of both hives are propped up slightly for ventilation. On the second hive, there were only a few hundred exhibiting this behavior. Has anyone ever really studied this to see if they do indeed produce less? If indeed they do less work, and produce less, would it be to our advantage to select against such idleness? Is the loss of production negligible, and therefore of little concern? Thanks for any help I can get on this matter. Scott Moser " I believe that beekeeping mirrors life. One must endure a few stings to reach the final sweet reward." S. Moser ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 20:03:32 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: SoVerNet Verification (on garnet.sover.net) sover.net from arc1a185.bf.sover.net [209.198.80.185] 209.198.80.185 Thu, 10 Jun 1999 20:05:45 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jeffrey R. Hills" Subject: Re: Drone Layer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > My question is, can I simply requeen in the ordinary way? Would it be > > better to give the hive a comb of eggs and hope they'll superscede the > > drone-layer, or should I buy a queen and try to introduce her after > > dispatching the drone-layer> > Looking for advice on "drone-layers" ... is this a common phenomenon? I found a whole frame of foundation that was COVERED WITH DRONES in one of my hives last weekend and am still scratching my head about it. Is this unusual? Does this mean I have a queen doing funny things? Thanks. Jeff Hills ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 07:18:33 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Chris and Janet Sauer Subject: Re: Herbicide Resistent Crops In-Reply-To: <199906101327.JAA00315@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lloyd said, "o the best of my knowledge, and I have done a fair amount of reading on the subject, these seeds are specifically developed so that the herbicide resistance will not continue into the 2nd generation." Unfortunately, this is a proposal that seed companies are considering as a possible solution; it isn't being used yet. Instead, farmers have to agree not to use the second-generation seed. This is a huge problem in the third world where farmers are not able to purchase seed every year. I agree that companies and our government have dived headfirst into a pool without first checking to see if there's any water in it. I'm glad to see Canada and the EU taking a more cautious approach. Chris and Janet Sauer Colesburg Apiaries www.greathoney.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 13:10:02 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ken Hoare Subject: Re drone layer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Looking for advice on "drone-layers" ... is this a common phenomenon? I found a whole frame of foundation that was COVERED WITH DRONES in one of my hives last weekend and am still scratching my head about it. Is this unusual? Does this mean I have a queen doing funny things? Thanks. Jeff Hills I'm not quite clear what is being asked here, does "covered with drones" mean as I suspect filled with developing drone larvae, or that the frame alone is covered with adult drones? Taking the most likely option first option I would suggest that by mistake a sheet of 'drone foundation' has been fitted to the frame, or maybe even a frame was used where NO foundation was used (not necessarily always leading to drone comb but often is the case - I wonder why as feral colonies build mainly worker comb into an empty cavity), both leading to the queen laying unfertilised eggs and thus drones. If my second alternative is the scenario I find that the flank frames in my hives hold the majority of the lurking drones - maybe because they contain the food stores and where better to lurk. >From a lightweight drone beekeeper who also likes his grub. Ken Hoare ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 11:24:00 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BOGANSRJ@APCI.COM Subject: Queen Acceptance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, A long time ago an elderly gentleman walked up to a beekeeping friend. He asked if my friend was a beekeeper. Upon hearing the positive reply the gentleman said "I will say one thing and shut-up. Requeen every year!" He then walked away. Great advice. I just wish the bees would listen. I have never had much success with direct requeening. I do much better making a split and then reuniting it with the parent colony. Last fall I helped my beekeeping friend requeen 20 colonies. These were young northern raised queens. The acceptance was about 75% and 30% of those were superseded within a month. The last two years I have been buying marked queens and marking existing. This has confirmed that queens are replaced more often than I had once believed. Although I have one marked yellow from two years ago that was recovered with a swarm last year, that built up wintered, and is an extremely good producer this year. I made a split this year and the queen was accepted and laying beautiful for about five weeks. Then I found supercedure cells on one of the frames. There was still plenty of eggs and young larvae. By my standards this queen would get an A. I decided to remove the frame with the cells and let them think this over a bit longer. A week later, sure enough, more supercedure cells. I guess they know what they want and its not the queen I gave them. I have another split that accepted a horrible drone layer. I gave them a replacement. I placed the drone layer in her discarded queen cage. I was going to preserve her to show folks what a queen looks like. I set the cage and some other equipment on the ground about 20 ft. from the nearest hive and when on about my work. I actually forgot about her. Late the next day I found her alive and well with five workers attending to her from the outside of the cage. They were very reluctant to leave. I spent a good amount of time this spring making and working with nucs and splits, and raising some queens. You can learn a lot about bee behavior doing this. As usual, the more I learn the more I find out how little I know. Ron Bogansky Kutztown, (eastern) PA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 12:46:58 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: Entrance excluders In-Reply-To: <199906101752.NAA13163@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Should we -- or do we -- have different spacings of excluder wire for >different species/races of bees? Allen, I can't speak to the excluder size, but we have worked with a variety of pollen scrapers over the last decade, some commercially available, some that we made. We also weighed thousands of bees from various parts of the U.S. Honey bees do vary in size more than is commonly acknowledged. As you know, bees reared in old comb may be emerging from smaller cells (all of the lining and relining sizes them down until the bees tear down and rebuild). With new foundation/comb different manufacturers use different size cells. Pollen scrappers made from thin material allows bees of more variable size to pass through. As a bit of thickness to the scraper material, and some colonies won't be able to work through them. Sort of like you or I trying to crawl through a tight culvert (tube) versus a wire hoop of the same size. You can wiggle through the hoop, not the tube. I once paid a beekeepers for a heat prostrated colony after he put an entrance mounted pollen screen on his hive and didn't follow our suggestions to watch the bees to be sure they could pass. I also suspect that different races of bees produce slightly different sized worker bees. Now, for the oddest observation. Four years ago we had a set of our electronic colonies in MT for several weeks. We were using our own manufactured pollen scrappers made by punching holes in a thin, stiff plastic. We pulled the pollen screens, loaded up the bees, and drove the colonies/hives from MT to MD. Four days later in MD, the bees were flying and we re-inserted the pollen scrappers. None of the bees could get through!! Same bees, same screens, same hive boxes. They worked four days earlier and had for some weeks. It's like the bees swelled up. I know that people on extended air flight sometimes get swollen feet. Didn't know this happened to bees! Never did figure it out. We had to use a different scrapper. Jerry J. Bromenshenk, Ph.D. Director, DOE/EPSCoR & Montana Organization for Research in Energy The University of Montana-Missoula Missoula, MT 59812-1002 E-Mail: jjbmail@selway.umt.edu Tel: 406-243-5648 Fax: 406-243-4184 http://www.umt.edu/biology/more http://www.umt.edu/biology/bees ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 15:43:47 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: P-O Gustafsson Subject: Re: Entrance excluders MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Allen Dick wrote: > Should we -- or do we -- have different spacings of excluder wire for > different species/races of bees? > > What about those supposedly larger bees that the Europeans claim to get > by renewing their combs every year or two? Don't know about excluders, but I found there is some difference. Some years ago I took a New Zealand made pollen trap with me home to try. The bees got really upset about it, and when I checked it out they couldn't get through the holes. So my bees got to be bigger than Kiwi bees....... without renewing the combs too much. I think it's more a genetic factor, when NZ allows very little import of new genetic material (if any). I think it was about 2/10 of a millimetre too small. Only a few bees could squeeze through. -- Regards P-O Gustafsson, Sweden beeman@algonet.se http://www.algonet.se/~beeman/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 21:47:15 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Using water rather than smoke Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello All What do the list think of using water rather than smoke when handling bees. A friend of mine uses it most of the time and swears by it. He claims that smoking bees causes severe disruption to their working, and that it takes many hours before the working tempo of the hive returns to normal. I tried it out today, using a fine spray to put a 'mist' on the bees, and it seemed to me to be about the same as smoke. They certainly seemed less inclined to fly. I handled one hive without any stings and got about the usual number from two other hives. I am going to try putting a small amount of sugar in the water next time. Would using water be an idea when finding queens as I read that smoke causes the queen to make herself scarce?. Any comments most welcome. Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park, Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland Tel + 353 1 289 5269 Fax + 353 1 289 9940 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 18:54:27 -0700 Reply-To: mcmanus Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: mcmanus Subject: Re: Using water rather than smoke MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All Tom asked about using water. -----Original Message----- From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd > >What do the list think of using water rather than smoke when handling bees. >A friend of mine uses it most of the time and swears by it. He claims that >smoking bees causes severe disruption to their working, and that it takes >many hours before the working tempo of the hive returns to normal. > >I tried it out today, using a fine spray to put a 'mist' on the bees, and it >seemed to me to be about the same as smoke. ....... I am going to try putting a small amount of sugar in the water next time. I myself have used water when working my bees and when sprayed in a fine mist, it does not seem to hurt a thing. It also seems to quiet them down some. Of course, one should not drown them. I use a little sugar in the mix and when I combined a weak hive to a strong one, after the queen has been removed, I add a drop or two of vanilla extract. This also quiets them down by changing the smell of both to the same smell, as well as to give them something to do by removing the sugar from each other. Usually the combining hive is much smaller then the new host. It will eliminate the need for paper. Maybe others have tried this method. Would be happy to hear any and all about this. Joe McManus Loving You Honey Farms Bremerton, WA. USA mcmanus@budsters ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 22:02:11 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Elizabeth Petofi Subject: Re: Using water rather than smoke MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > What do the list think of using water rather than smoke when handling > bees. > Tom Barrett Dublin Ireland My thought is a question: would the water get in the honey and cause it to ferment and make mead? Someone else on the list suggested using diluted vinegar. I have asthma and am allergic to smoke and would prefer not to use it but also don't want to risk my (very first!) honey crop. Elizabeth Petofi, new beekeeper in Orange Virginia ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 00:53:46 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Stefan Stangaciu Subject: Re: 2nd. query MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Harry (harry@LUICHARTWOOLLENS.FREESERVE.CO.UK) wrote: >Although I believe honey does have antibacterial properties the reason it is >good for wound dressings is because of its ability to desiccate infecting >cells. I believe that sugar or syrup will achieve much the same results. Hello dear Harry and Bee-L friends, Yes, sugar and/or sirup can achieve similar results. Honey is however much better because it contains a much wider spectrum of useful compounds. These compounds (minerals, enzymes, natural antibiotics, bioflavonoids) even if present in very small amounts, helps for a better and faster healing. References? Here are only two of them: ....................................................................... Bose, B. (1983) - Honey or sugar in the treatment of infected wounds, in The Lancet, April: 963. El-Banby A. Mohamed; Kandil, A.; Abou-Sehly, G.; El-Sherif, M.E.; Abdel-Wahed, K. (1989) (Egypt) - Healing effect of floral honey and honey from sugar-fed bees on surgical wounds (animal model), in the Fourth International Conference on Apiculture in Tropical Climates, Cairo; International Bee Research Association, London. ....................................................................... For more references on this subject I would advise you to visit also the following two web sites: http://www.bio.waikato.ac.nz/honey http://www.sci.fi/~apither ("Surgery and Honey Bibliography" + "Bacteriology and Honey Bibl.") Best wishes to all of you, Stefan Stangaciu. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 12:33:11 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jorn Johanesson Subject: Sv: Using water rather than smoke MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Til: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Dato: 12. juni 1999 00:08 Emne: Using water rather than smoke >Hello All > >What do the list think of using water rather than smoke when handling bees. >A friend of mine uses it most of the time and swears by it. If you put a drop of acetic acid (vinegar) don't use tecnical! into the water you will see that the bees will start drinking it up instead of jumping at you. Just spray it on the top frame sticks. As usual with bees no gurantie granted. Jorn Johanesson EDBi = multilingual Beekeeping software since 1987 http://home4.inet.tele.dk/apimo (Denmark) http://wn.com.au/apimo (Australia) http://apimo.dk (USA) apimo@post4.tele.dk apimo@wn.com.au Jorn_Johanesson@apimo.dk ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 07:40:00 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Using water rather than smoke MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Several posts deal with the use of minimum smoke, just a puff, to work hives easily. It is obvious that bees do not pour out massive clouds of pheremones compared to the puff of smoke, so it can be inferred that the smoke, even if one puff, would mask at least the alarm pheremone. And, using the same logic, if the hive on fire trigger is smoke, then it would only take one puff at the entrance to trigger that reaction. Either way says use minimum smoke. It also answers the question of why wait for a few minutes to work the bees. You are waiting for the smoke to dissipate in the hive so most get the word. My guess, also, why I was taught to crack the lid and smoke the inner cover is impatience. We don't wait the few minutes to let the entrance puff to do its work but want to get right into the hive. Bill T bath, ME mcmanus wrote: I add a drop or two of vanilla > extract. This also quiets them down by changing the smell of both to the > same smell, ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 09:31:54 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Thom Bradley Subject: Re: Washboarding/Hanging out MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Scott, I have one colony with an enormous population that exploded when the nectar flow began. Despite a bear attack this colony produced 3 complete supers of capped honey in 10 days. I was able to salvage only 14 frames and these extracted to 3 gallons of strained honey. The number of bees that hang out on the front is probably about 10 - 15,000 at any one time despite 3 entrances It is not to fret. Remember that the bees actually spend lots of time doing nothing but resting and patrolling. I have another, similar colony in a different location that produced nearly nothing this year. They are lazy and are going to get a new queen next week. Hanging out is not an indicator of productivity. The only good measure of productivity is how much honey they make. Thom Bradley Chesapeake, VA Scott Moser wrote: Has anyone ever really studied this to > see if they do indeed produce less? If indeed they do less work, and > produce less, would it be to our advantage to select against such idleness? > Is the loss of production negligible, and therefore of little concern? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 12:41:00 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Attila31@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Washboarding/Hanging out MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Scott! If you really want to know the difference between the two hive do the following. Put both hive on a scale and monitor the weight increase. That will tell you the difference. Years ago (about 20y) some co sold some hive scale (I forget the name of the co who produced those scales). Maybee something similar can be obtained today too. Good luck. Attila ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 13:37:52 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Musashi Subject: Re: Drone Layer Jeff Hills, asking "Looking for advice on "drone-layers" ... is this a common phenomenon? ..." I perceive that the term "drone layer" has not been sufficiently defined for everyone. Those of us with a little more experience than others would recognize the term "dron layer" as referring to a queen bee that lays drone eggs and nothing but drone eggs. It has no semen, so cannot produce female worker bees. It is not the same thing as a laying worker, and any and every healthy, normal queen will lay some drone eggs and produce drones, and at times they may be numerous. A "drone layer" produces NOTHING BUT DRONES. Did I miss the mark, or was this where the question really lies? Sometimes one receives what is supposed to be a mated queen in the mail from a queen breeder, and the queen ends up producing nothing but drone offspring. This is a "drone layer." Layne Westover College Station, Texas ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 17:52:14 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Hans van der Meijs Subject: using little smoke and water + finding Queens Comments: To: L-Soft list server at the University of Albany l MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am an beekeeper for about 13 years and as a qualified beekeeping teacher ive beekeeping courses for about 6 years. We mostly work with 2 broodchambers, on top of that an queen excluder and then 1 or 2 honeychambers depending on the honey flow. For finding the queen use (little) smoke from below, for example through the hive entrance. Wait a little, then put the 2 broodchambers apart. The best change of finding your queen is in the top broodchamber. The queen tempts to walk away from the smoke. When you remove the first frame we put that one aside (we hang it temporary in a small 3 frame hive). Then take the second one out. while you take the frame out look sideways on the next frame, which is still hanging in the broodchamber. Often you see the queen walk away on that frame to the dark. Check the frame you have taken out if the queen is on it, then put it on the place where the first frame has been. Then take the mext frame out, look , check and put the frame back. In that way you check the whole broodchamber. After the initial use of smoke we use water in order: - To quiet the bees down when they become restless again. We spray then only on top of the chambers with frames. We do not spray the the broodframes itself. Especially because in cool weather this can cool down the brood fast. - to spray a little water on the top-arms of the frames so you do not squeeze so many bees while handling. We often work with bare hands on the Apiary where I teach. We smear Linseed oil on our hands. - When you put the brood and honey chambers back on each other we spray water over edges of the chambers. the bees walk away from the edges of the chambers into the combs. This prevents squeezing a lot of bees. -During queenrearing we do not use smoke but only water to check the frames with Queencells on acceptance, to cage the queencells and to take the queencells out. I find using water very helpfull. I always have a plantspray-container with me. Greetings: Hans van der Meijs hvdmeijs@kabelfoon.nl ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 22:31:16 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Elizabeth Petofi Subject: Re: help -- what do feeble beekeepers do? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit When I became a beekeeper a zillion aeons ago (like last February in another lifetime) I didn't anticipate how HEAVY beehives are, especially with bees and/or honey in them. I have observed through some punitive lessons that bees don't have much of a sense of humor when their hive parts are dropped with them in them. Please advise -- What tricks have aging or physically deteroriating beekeepers developed for lifting or carrying or moving or changing bee hive parts? Like designs for retirement bee hives? Any helpful hints earnestly solicited and gratefully received!!!!! Now I have my bees I love them. But keeping two deeps and swapping them is just not feasible or realistic for me. Ugh! Can't do it! Can't hardly carry a super with honey in it. Also, and I hope this is not a silly question, but does everybody put all their hive parts together themselves and insert the foundation etc? I mean, what do beekeepers with hundreds or even thousands of hives do about frames and foundations? What secrets do competent and successful and happy bees beekeepers know that if I only also knew, my newly complicated life would be made easier? Thanks! Elizabeth Petofi with bees in Orange County Virgina ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 22:59:35 -0400 Reply-To: info@beeworks.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Problem Hive In-Reply-To: <199906111107.HAA01029@listserv.albany.edu> On 10 Jun 99, at 23:47, WUhlman@aol.com wrote: > Reluctantly, I switched back to gentle Italians. They don't build up as > fast and don't produce as outstanding a brood pattern, and don't produce > as much honey but I have happier neighbors and fewer stings! My two hives > are in downtown Seattle. I have a real problem with blanket statements such as this one. My experience with Italians is nothing like this statement. In fact I think they're far superior to some of the fancy named stock being offered for sale. Certainly more predictable. ***************************************** The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada.L3V 6H1. Phone (705)326 7171 Fax (705)325 3461 David Eyre, Owner e-mail http://www.beeworks.com This months special:- Labels **************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 11:58:06 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Using water rather than smoke Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Elizabeth Petofi raises a question regarding the possible effect of the water on honey in the hive, and fears that the honey may turn into mead. I would be of the opinion that there is nothing to worry about here,since water is found abundantly in a hive for temperature control, for use by the bees and as a by product of ripening nectar. I would imagine that the little extra introduced by using a fine spray on the bees will not materially alter this, and the bees are well used to maintaining the water balance in the hive anyway. I hope that Elizabeth will try using water (perhaps containing a small amount of sugar), and that she has good results from it. I should like to thank those who replied to my post. The consensus seems to be to use both water and smoke, and lean towards the water where possible. Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park, Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland Tel + 353 1 289 5269 Fax + 353 1 289 9940 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 07:25:17 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: help -- what do feeble beekeepers do? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Elizabeth, You can shift to mediums, which will make it a little easier, or, and this will be argued by many on this list, just work the supers and top box and leave the bottom box alone. If you have to get at it, tilt the top box up to put in apistan strips or patties. Bring along a board with notches which will fit the edges of the bottom and top box so you do not have to hold it up. There have been several good discussions about spring management and rotation of boxes. I decided to go with the labor saving one, which is to leave them alone. But you will need to be extra alert to give the bees room by supering promptly. And if you need to get into the bottom box, join a bee clup in your area and ask for help. Once, when I was away taking care of my son who had an operation, some in the club did all my spring management. Beekeepers are nice folk. Bill T Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 20:38:34 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Madeleine Pym Subject: Re: Using water rather than smoke MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Tom, I learnt this trick for the first time last year in Ireland. I used it regularly during the hot summer period and it worked extremely well - no need for sugar added to it. My instinct is that in the sort of wet spring/summer we are experiencing here in the UK this year it would not be such a good idea to add even more moisture to the hive. As others have already said I do not spray directly onto the combs but only on the top bars. If the bees are very agitated it works wonders at quietening them down. Some people may remember me enthusing about this last summer after Gormanston - the Irish beekeeping residential - where I was shown this method by an old-timer who recommended I try it when I had to examine a colony of bees that were being used for examination purposes and had been open and constantly pulled apart for an hour thereabouts. The bees were all up in the air and somewhat 'stressed' by the experience and beginning to show it. In under a minute the combs were covered in bees again and the colony was at peace. Madeleine Pym, London, UK ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 09:52:56 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Drone Layer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Drone layer around here means drones laid in worker sized cells. How a queen knows whether the egg she lays is to be fertilized and how she controls it is beyond me. But when she runs out of sperm she lays unfertilized eggs in worker cells. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 07:19:06 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Subject: Re: help -- what do feeble beekeepers do? Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > Please advise -- What tricks have aging or physically deteroriating > beekeepers developed for lifting or carrying or moving or changing bee > hive parts? Like designs for retirement bee hives? Hello Elizabeth - Years ago (March 1991) I read an article in Bee Culture about a beekeeper in California that modified a Langstroth hive as an experiment. He ended up joining two deep hive bodies by cutting off one side of each and attaching so he ended up with one large brood chamber that held 20 frames. I made a hive from scratch just like this several years ago and it has become my favorite. It's the easiest hive to manage as there is no lifting or switching hive bodies and it's all on one level. I don't know why but this hive is always the quickest hive to build up in the spring and has always been one of the strongest of the hives. You super it just as you would a standard hive. You could use mediums or shallows to make it easier in the lifting department. If you or a friend knows basic woodworking skills, I would encourage you to give it a try. You can see a photo of mine at: http://www.birkey.com/blb/condo.html I'd be happy to discuss it further with you if you want. Regards, Barry -- Barry Birkey West Chicago, Illinois barry@birkey.com http://www.birkey.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 08:57:54 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: RASpiek@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Linseed oil? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hans told of rubbing linseed oil on his hands while working bees. What is the purpose of this? Richard RASpiek@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 23:17:35 -0500 Reply-To: beekeeper@honeyhillfarm.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: wtroyer Organization: Honey Hill Farm Subject: Re: help -- what do feeble beekeepers do? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Elizabeth Petofi wrote: I didn't anticipate how HEAVY beehives are... I use a hydraulicly operated loader on a tractor for lifting or moving entire hives and for hauling loaded honey supers. I still have to lift supers off of the hives and onto the loader which can be positioned close to the hive to minimize my effort. You might consider three medium supers as a hive body instead of two full size deeps in order to reduce lifting requirements when switching hive bodies. I personally have found little advantage in switching hive bodies. I no longer do this tedious and difficult task unless I see a specific problem that justifies the extra work. Can't hardly carry a super with honey in it. Use the smallest sized supers. These are considerably lighter in weight, but you will need more of them. does everybody putall their hive parts together themselves and insert the foundationI put virtually nothing together because I have limited time available. I use mostly Pierco all-plastic, one-piece frames which require no assembly. I just insert frames to make up a deep body or super. I hope this information is helpful. Wade -- Web: http://www.honeyhillfarm.com Mail: beekeeper@honeyhillfarm.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 17:48:34 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert Butcher Organization: Dundee University Subject: Re: A M Capensis Comments: To: cssl@iol.ie In-Reply-To: <199905101233.IAA23656@listserv.albany.edu> Hi, I have been away in wonderful Ireland (my first ever visit, and enjoyed the wealth of lepidoptera and apoidea life, including the local A.m. mellifera in the rolling Cork countryside as well as the Guinness), and so unsubscribed from the list. Guess i should resubscribe now. However, was the following addressed by anybody during the past few weeks (Garth, you continuing to enlighten us all about A. m. capensis?) or do i still need to clarify the below? Would it be possible to explain this fascinating subject in more everyday terms?. I must say that I do not understand the paragraph beginning as follows: > > >"Colonies" potentially have the > >advantages of both thelytoky (rapid clonal expansion of currently > >advantageous gene combinations without having to be reliant on other > >males, or production of males rather then females, so queens and > >their associated reproductively active (clonal) daughter workers can > >rapidly reproduce compared to "sexual" species{all other things not > >being limited]; whilst maintaining the advantages of sexual > >reproduction (recombination, gene flow) to allow new genotype > >combinations and thus a buffer against changing environment ..... Cheers Rob Robert Butcher, Evolutionary and Ecological Entomology Unit, Department of Biological Sciences, Dundee University, Dundee, DD1 4HN, Tayside, Scotland, UK. Work Phone:- 01382-344291 (Office), 01382-344756 (Lab). Fax:- 01382-344864 e-mail:- r.d.j.butcher@dundee.ac.uk ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 10:24:27 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Harry Goudie Subject: Re: help -- what do feeble beekeepers do? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Please advise -- What tricks have aging or physically deteroriating >beekeepers developed for lifting or carrying or moving or changing bee >hive parts? Like designs for retirement bee hives? Have you thought about using a Top Bar Hive rather than the conventional style? Having only built my first TBH a couple of months ago I do not have a great deal of experience of them but although they are enormous hives you don't have much lifting after they are set up. There are no supers or extra boxes to lift. The only lifting you will have to do is one frame at a time. There are at least a couple of web sites devoted to this style of beekeeping which might be worth a look. Harry ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 03:49:02 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Anglin Subject: Re: help -- what do feeble beekeepers do? Comments: To: tengri@cstone.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have some hives in three shallow or medium depth supers- The swarms moved in on their own and they are quite happy in the smaller boxes. Although there are more frames to inspect and maintain, the lighter boxes are much easier on the back. Ellen ----- Original Message ----- From: Elizabeth Petofi To: Sent: Saturday, June 12, 1999 7:31 PM Subject: Re: help -- what do feeble beekeepers do? > When I became a beekeeper a zillion aeons ago (like last February in > another lifetime) I didn't anticipate how HEAVY beehives are, especially > with bees and/or honey in them. I have observed through some punitive > lessons that bees don't have much of a sense of humor when their hive > parts are dropped with them in them. > > Please advise -- What tricks have aging or physically deteroriating > beekeepers developed for lifting or carrying or moving or changing bee > hive parts? Like designs for retirement bee hives? > > Any helpful hints earnestly solicited and gratefully received!!!!! Now > I have my bees I love them. But keeping two deeps and swapping them is > just not feasible or realistic for me. Ugh! Can't do it! Can't hardly > carry a super with honey in it. > > Also, and I hope this is not a silly question, but does everybody put > all their hive parts together themselves and insert the foundation etc? > I mean, what do beekeepers with hundreds or even thousands of hives do > about frames and foundations? What secrets do competent and successful > and happy bees beekeepers know that if I only also knew, my newly > complicated life would be made easier? > > Thanks! > > Elizabeth Petofi with bees in Orange County Virgina > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 01:57:33 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: help -- what do feeble beekeepers do? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_58ce0a67.2494a24d_boundary" --part1_58ce0a67.2494a24d_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Elizabeth: I know what you mean! I am a retired scientist who built the atomic bombs to end World War II; and beekeeping is my consuming hobby, always done scientifically. After strokes three years ago, I cut back from 100+ colonies to just 20 here in my back yard "to keep my 66 year old hobby going". I have difficulty walking now, so I go to them on my golf cart, work slowly, but deliberately. Today, I started 6 new colonies with new queens that I exhibit at the famous Montgomery County Fair in August. Fifteen years ago when I still strong and a 100 pound deep body of honey and bees was not too heavy, I became very upset about "never having the right size frame when I wanted to switch frames about. I couldn't put a deep frame in a super body, and the bees built burr comb on the bottom of a super frame if it was put in a deep body. These sizes are not "ordained by God" and the bees don't know the difference, so why not use one size body for EVERYTHING - brood, honey, and even section honey? I selected the ILLINOIS size, called the MEDIUM size of 6 5/8", and switched 135 colonies from a combination of deep, medium, and shallow bodies into nothing but the Illinois (medium) size. I use 3 Illinois in place of 2 Deeps for brood chambers, and use only that size for extracted honey, cut comb honey and even 4x4 square section comb honey. The heaviest body is one full of capped honey and weighs about 50-55 pounds. As far as the other tedious work is concerned, even though i "hate" plastic and think of it as cheap Japanese junk (after all, I am old), Dadant came out with foundation named Plasticell, and I tried it. I wish they had had it 66 years ago! You don't have to wire it in, it won't sag, you can't break it if you tried, and if the bees build drone comb on it, you scrape that off with a hive tool, give it back to the bees, and they will rebuild it with pretty worker size comb. After my success, Ann Harman switched too. Many of the new beekeepers that both of us teach FREE OF CHARGE start their beekeeping using all Illinois. I have attached an article I wrote about this years ago to this e-mail. I hope you can open it. It is written on my Apple computer. My writings are read FREE by about 4-5000 beekeepers each month and are called George's PINK PAGES. Their purpose is singular: to UPGRADE beeHAVERS into beeKEEPERS. You can find them published on two different WEB sites, one in Maine and the other in Florida. The addresses are: http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee/ click the image at lower right http://www.beekeeper.org/george_imirie/index.html I hope I have helped. George Imirie --part1_58ce0a67.2494a24d_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; name="All Illinois" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline; filename="All Illinois" GET SMART and SAVE YOUR BACK!=0D = plus=0D ENJOY HAVING JUST ONE= SIZE FRAME IN YOUR COLONY!=0D=0D Ever since Langstroth designed ou= r modern day hive, that deep body regardless of whether it is filled with ho= ney or brood, is heavy. During these past 140 years since Langstroth design= ed the hive, numerous people have created different size boxes, called "su= pers", primarily to reduce that heavy weight of 10 deep frames as we do colo= ny manipulations. As a scientist, for years I asked myself "What is so sac= red about the size of the Langstroth 9 5/8" deep hive body?" Further, and = much more important, when you use a deep body for the brood chamber, and eit= her 6 5/8" medium [Illinois] and/or 5 11/16" shallow bodies for supers, you= are faced with different size frames that are non-interchangeable! I am po= sitive that if you have been keeping bees more than two years, the fact tha= t your frames could not be inerchanged has frustrated you more than once.=0D= Perhaps, cussing the situation and feeling defeated, you put a shallow frame= down in the deep body; but when you tried to remedy the problem the followi= ng weekend, the queen had layed lots of eggs in the frame and the nest build= ers had built 3 inches of burr comb on the frame lower bar! Oh, what a mess= !=0D Fifteen years ago, having been frustrated with these differen= t size frames for almost 50 years (since 1933) plus getting older so the wei= ght of deep bodies was bothering me, I decided: "Enough is enough, I am goin= g to switch my total operation to all one size body and frame --- ILLINOIS! = I wish I had done this over 50 years ago!!! A deep body filled with honey = weighs about 90 pounds, whereas an Illinois body filled with honey weighs 6= 0 pounds.=0D But let's talk about the brood chamber area, because = "that is where the action is", or, as I teach, "A good beekeeper pays very l= ittle attention to the supers, because if he has everything 'under control' = in the brood area, the honey in the supers will take care of itself" That i= s lesson #23, so i better get back to ALL ONE SIZE BODIES AND FRAMES - ILLIN= OIS. A sheet of deep foudation is 8 1/2" tall, or two of them are 17' tall = (most beekeepers use two deep bodies for brood chamber space). A sheet of I= llinois foundation is 5 5/8" tall, or three =0Dof them are 16 7/8" tall - ju= st 1/8" less than 2 deeps! Three Illinois frames has 99.3% of the space of= two deep frames! I have explained the weight advantage, but just think abo= ut all the advantages of one size frame: ease of reversing without breaking= the cluster, swarm control of moving frames of capped brood up into the sup= ers and moving empty drawn comb frames from supers down into the brood chamb= er ready for the queen to lay eggs, moving damaged frames or drone size cell= frames up into the super area, and just the ease of handling this smaller f= rame.=0D Most of you are interested in frames of honey, extracted, = cut-comb, chunk, and even square section or Ross Round. I use the Illinios = frame for ALL! My cut-comb boxes and my wig-wam jars of chunk honey are bot= h better filled full by cutting from Illinios frames than shallow frames. (= I eat the leftovers as I cut to give me 'instant energy'). For nosgalgia re= asons, I still make some square wooden section honey by putting a 1/2"spacer= on the frame bottom bar so the wood sections fit the frame nicely plus fenc= e support bars on the super ends. Wood Sections are a thing of the past, bu= t it brings back 65 years of memories.=0D I have convinced a numbe= r of beginners to use all Illinois and they love it. A few of the older men= have converted and, like me, sorry they didn't do it earlier. If I could l= ive another 50 years, i would bet many of the smarter beekeepers will go in = this direction.=0D IF you have drawn comb Illinois frames, late wi= nter and early spring is the time to convert. Just put an Illinois of drawn= comb on TOP of your two deeps in February, provide the bees with a little 1= :1 sugar syrup =0Dto supply nectar substitute for the brood the queen will l= ay in the frames, remove the bottom deep when it is empty, add another drawn= comb Illinois on top, and finally the third and by that time theb second de= ep should be empty and permanently remove it. If you do NOT have Illinois d= rawn comb, your bees will have to make 30 frames of it on nectar flows over = top of the queen excluder with NO OTHER supers, and then during the summer, = =0Disolate the queen away from deep bodies by using excluders to confine her= to the freshly made drawn Illinois comb. If you are confused and I am not = available, ASK ONE OF THE MASTER BEEKEEPERS IN YOUR AREA. In fact, depend = on your MASTER BEEKEEPERS for sound advice! --part1_58ce0a67.2494a24d_boundary-- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 07:17:51 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Sid Pullinger Subject: Waggle Dance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit <<<<>>>> Have you access to the CD Rom encyclopaedia Encarta. If so go to Find, Honeybee, scroll down to Communications where you will find a short video of the waggle dances according to Karl von Frisch. Sid P. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 18:23:11 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: SoVerNet Verification (on garnet.sover.net) sover.net from tempa3.bf.sover.net [207.136.202.3] 207.136.202.3 Sun, 13 Jun 1999 08:38:07 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jeffrey R. Hills" Subject: Re: Drone Layer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Jeff Hills, asking "Looking for advice on "drone-layers" ... is this a common > phenomenon? ..." > > Sometimes one receives what is supposed to be a mated queen in the mail from a > queen breeder, and the queen ends up producing nothing but drone offspring. > This is a "drone layer." Thanks for the response ... I think you have probably put the finger on my problem with this particular queen. I got this queen in the mail about 7 weeks ago. Now the doggone hive is about 40% drones. Not sure what to do next. Regards, Jeff Hills > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 11:33:55 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Steve Davis Subject: Re: help -- what do feeble beekeepers do? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >From this list I've listened and learned a few important points on beekeeping. If you give your bees plenty of room early in the spring, say peach bloom time, your have much less swarming and much more honey. After many years of having bees I tried this last spring with noticeable results. Out of four hives just one swarmed. I have four mediums on each of the others with another month or so of honey flow left. Also, I've found the plastic Peirco frames are great for the small time beekeeper too. I have these in the medium supers and simply scrape them down with a table spoon into a colander suspended over a large vessel. I let the bees clean supers and frames before storing during the winter. With these there's never a need ever year to place foundation in the frames. Hope this helps. Now if there was only a way to get the supers into the kitchen without lifting. Steve >Also, and I hope this is not a silly question, but does everybody put > all their hive parts together themselves and insert the foundation etc? > I mean, what do beekeepers with hundreds or even thousands of hives do > about frames and foundations? What secrets do competent and successful > and happy bees beekeepers know that if I only also knew, my newly > complicated life would be made easier? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 13:52:05 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Gothoney@AOL.COM Subject: Re: painting a queen with a white dot MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is there a right way to do this? How do you hold her? What kind of paint? What is the risk of doing her harm? Where do you put the paint? How much? etc ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 07:55:42 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Stefan Stangaciu Subject: Re: help -- what do feeble beekeepers do? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>Please advise -- What tricks have aging or physically deteriorating >>beekeepers developed for lifting or carrying or moving or changing bee >>hive parts? Like designs for retirement bee hives? Hi there, Besides "technical" helps, I think all beekeepers in this situation should take care, of course, of their own muscular and joints health. In this respect, the use of all bee products may be of great help. So, if no counter-indication is present, take daily or as often as possible: Honey (the best personal fuel): 20-30 grams a day in liquids. Bee Pollen (the best protein and amino acids source for our muscles): 20-30 grams a day. Royal Jelly (the best helper for our kidneys and adrenals): 500 - 1,000 mg a day. Propolis (the best stimulator of the breathing processes at cellular level): 2-5 grams a day (raw) + 10-20 drops of tincture 20-30%, on a piece of bread or better, on a half teaspoon of honey, between meals. Bee Venom: bee stings, especially on the lower back, on the kidneys areas and on any other sensible to pressure points on the back and knees areas. According to the Traditional Chinese Medicine, the best points (buy a good book on acupuncture) are: Urinary bladder 52 (Zhishin) Urinary bladder 23 (Shenshu) Governing vessel 4 (Mingmen) Gall bladder 34 (Yanglingchuan) Stomach 36 (Zusanli). Using for a while the above method, you may need not anymore "technical" help, at least for another couple of years... :-)) Best wishes, Stefan Stangaciu apither@gmb.ro ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 15:45:57 -0400 Reply-To: String & Linda Monteith Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: String & Linda Monteith Subject: Re: help -- what do feeble beekeepers do? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Elizabeth, I do put all my hive parts together, but I have only two hives at present. I also have three kids to help. They get extra priviledges for beework (an afternoon of work for a banana split if the best deal for all concerned). I did a demonstration for a 4-H group once & part of it was hands on. They came to my house, each with their own hammer, I showed them how hive boxes were put together, we all glued & hammered. They loved it & wanted to come back to paint them. I needed them sooner than their next monthly meeting. Maybe next time I buy hive boxes, I'll plan ahead & call them! I switched to ALL Illinois supers (I use them as honey super & brood boxes). Next year I hope to be able to afford switching to all shallow supers, as the full Illinois supers are still too heavy for me. (I am a wimp) Our bees winter fine in Southern Ohio in 3 Illinois supers. They are much easier for me to handle. Linda ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 17:10:56 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tim Sterrett Subject: Re: what do feeble beekeepers do? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > But keeping two deeps and swapping them is just not feasible or > realistic for me. Can't hardly carry a super with honey in it. ***************** Let's hear why bees cannot be kept in shallow, extracting supers; the whole hive would be in shallows. At extracting time, frames could be pulled one at a time and placed into an empty shallow super on a cart then to be wheeled to an extracting location. I have put boards on top of a stable garden cart (like the leaves that can be added to a dining room table, but with pieces added so that the ends of the boards cannot slide off). This becomes the workbench on which I set hive bodies. When I finish work, I do not have to bend and lift the heavy weight from the ground. Tim -- Tim Sterrett sterrett@voicenet.com (southeastern) Pennsylvania, USA 40.0 N 75.5 W ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 19:20:10 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Chris Wave Subject: Re: help -- organic beekeeping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Can anyone on the list point me to organic methods of beekeeping. No antibiotics, no drugs? I have been unsuccessful in locating any information on the subject. Chris Wave ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 14:16:49 +0300 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jan Tempelman Organization: Goor Subject: peace corps MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ------quotation-------- The North Malaita Honey Bee Association was established in June 1994............ ..........The idea of the establishment was the initiated by the two American Peace Corps Volunteers who were based at Mahu'u Sub-Station at that time ----end of quotation------------ someone on the list who can gif my more information. greeting jan -- Jan Tempelman Kerkstraat 53 7471 AG GOOR telefoon: 0547-275788 -- http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/index3.html mailto:jtemp@xs4all.nl -- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 07:30:48 -0400 Reply-To: BobCan@tdpi.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Subject: what do feeble beekeepers do? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I saw a hive just the otherday that was two deeps that were attached with two door henges. All that was needed was to lift the front up and place something to hold it up while examining. >Please advise -- What tricks have aging or physically deteroriating > beekeepers developed for lifting or carrying or moving or changing bee > hive parts? Like designs for retirement bee hives? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 09:34:10 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: help -- what do feeble beekeepers do? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Elizabeth, For minimial lifting of supers, but this is time consuming, visit the beeyard the day before removing supers and put on a bee excape. I like the triangular ones that are on a inner cover. The next day, early, bring an empty super-no frames - on a gardenway cart. Take the frames out of the top full super and put them into the empty super on the cart. Then take off the empty super and fill it up. Continue on through all your hives. You can modify this to only take six frames out then lift the rest off, in any case it makes for less to lift. I would not change the supers for mediums. Keep them and use three mediums in place of two deeps, or just leave the deeps alone and get help if you need it to look in the bottom deep. Bill T Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 10:31:06 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter@AOL.COM Subject: Fwd: help -- what do feeble beekeepers do? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_f7bec1a9.24966c2a_boundary" --part1_f7bec1a9.24966c2a_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --part1_f7bec1a9.24966c2a_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: BeeCrofter@aol.com From: BeeCrofter@aol.com Full-name: BeeCrofter Message-ID: Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 10:29:43 EDT Subject: Re: help -- what do feeble beekeepers do? To: anlin@erinet.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows sub 11 A smart feeble beekeeper would probably mentor a strong fit beginner and swap some experience for some muscle. While this may not always be convenient it will work. Somewhere around here we have a couple of old gents who work together on the hives but I have yet to meet them. --part1_f7bec1a9.24966c2a_boundary-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 10:35:24 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Lipscomb, Al" Subject: Re: what do feeble beekeepers do? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > But keeping two deeps and swapping them is just not feasible or > realistic for me. Can't hardly carry a super with honey in it. ***************** > Let's hear why bees cannot be kept in shallow, extracting supers; the > whole hive would be in shallows. Let me see if I can think this one out. I know it should be possible. Bees do fine in hollow logs etc so we are just trying to make things work best for us and the bees with our boxes. To start we need to trade two deeps for shallows. Basic size would give us two shallows for each deep. But we now have more "top bars" and "bottom bars" due to the fact that we have doubled the number of frames as well. To come up even we may need to add a fifth shallow. That is a lot of work to keep this all in good shape and to inspect. Second issue could be the brood patterns. The bees have a natural shape they like. Deeps work for this pattern and mediums seem to be acceptable. I am not sure if shallows would work as well. Since the bees seem to break up the comb into brood, pollen, honey areas the larger number of frames could mean less actual area for egg laying. Also when things get cool the larger number of areas could make it harder for the bees to keep the brood warm. Just some thoughts. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 10:36:26 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Lipscomb, Al" Subject: Re: Using water rather than smoke MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" After reading all the postings I decided to see what effect the water would have on the hive. I needed to staple some hives together for moving so I felt that this would be a good place to experiment since I would not be opening the hives. I wanted the bees as calm as possible and as few flying as I could get. It was a hot day (95 degrees F). I filled a spray bottle with cold water and ice chips so the water would also serve to cool the beekeeper in the heat. I worked two hives with this. Both hives had a heavy "beard" of bees all over the lower chamber, front sides and even the back. I gave the first hive a puff of smoke and waited. Then sprayed down all bees in the entrance and then those on the sides and back. The mist soaked them down pretty good and they seemed to just hang on and take it. I then used staples to attach the bottom board to the lower chamber and saw no reaction from the bees. I had to adjust the chambers on this hive to align them for attachment and this took a good deal of time and in the hot sun the cool spray was nice to have. After I finished the hive seemed calm and just a little wet. The second hive took less time with the same results. It had a heavy beard and needed some adjustments. After I was done the hive seemed calm. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 10:59:21 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Quoting previously posted material MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi Folks, The first guideline for posting to BEE-L reads: 1. Do not include excessive quotes of previous submissions. If you must quote previous postings, include only what is necessary to make your point. Submissions that in- clude the entirety of previous posts will be rejected without comment or notice. I don't know how to put this into more clear prose. More than a half dozen submissions to BEE-L have been rejected since last Saturday because they were submitted with the entirity of a previous submission. When submitting to BEE-L, please turn off the "Include original message in reply" option in your mailer or only include the portion of the original post that is necessary to make your point. Excessive quotes clutter up BEE-L archives and WILL NOT be approved. Sincerely, Aaron Morris ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 10:45:30 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Musashi Subject: Re: what do feeble beekeepers do? > I have put boards on top of a stable garden cart (like the leaves that can be > added to a dining room table, but with pieces added so that the ends of the > boards cannot slide off)... I did the same thing with a garden cart using a sheet of plywood. Instead of using pieces of wood the stick over the outside edges of the cart, I just nailed two cleats on the bottom of the plywood so they would fit into the cart and keep the wood from sliding anywhere. As a matter of fact, I just made it Saturday because I needed to move some heavy honeycomb. It works great. Another idea that has been previously mentioned but not yet this time around is to set the hives up on hive stands so you don't have to do any bending over. I make mine out of 2x4's with 4 legs made from 4/4's. It is like the frame of a table without the top, just wide enough for the bottom board to stretch across. It lifts my hives 2 feet up off the ground. It could be a problem if your supers are stacked up really high, but where I live, I don't have that problem because our nectar flow isn't too heavy. Otherwise you could just extract more often. My garden cart is too small for the supers to fit inside of it, so the piece of wood on top is the only way I can use it. Another addition to the plywood cover for the cart might be to put a "lip" around the top edge to keep things from accidentally sliding off if you go over bumpy ground. My garden cart is really a lifesaver some times (at least a backsaver). Layne Westover College Station, Texas ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 12:28:26 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Hackler Honey Punch MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was considering buying a Hackler Honey Punch for a friend's birthday as he is always complaining about the cappings mess when extracting. In fact, he told me that he is considering 1999 being his last year unless he can find a way of eliminating the cappings mess. He uses a Pierce hot knife now and someone told me that the Hackler is the best thing since sliced bread. I checked the archives and there were just four references. Of interest, two loved it, and two hated it! Everyone seemed to agree that use eliminated the cappings mess, but the two who hated it found that they were really slowed down by having to continually immerse the device in hot water to keep it clean. The manufacturer suggests use of an electric device to keep hot water nearby. If this is the only objection, it seems to me that owning two, with one always in the hot water, would eliminate this objection. Compared to Pierce knifes they are inexpensive (about $40). I understand that this device is really popular in Europe, but has never caught on in the US. I would appreciate any advice concerning whether this device is worthwhile or whether I should choose something else. Lloyd LloydSpear@msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 13:33:32 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Hackler Honey Punch MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Having used a Hackler punch my opinion is it is a piece of junk that continually clogs with wax. I changed over to cappings forks and will not go back. The punch might have a use in the field to open honey to stimulate a hive in the spring but as an uncapping tool it was not fun. The honey extracts a lot quicker when the entire capping is removed also.