From MAILER-DAEMON Fri Sep 17 12:52:18 1999 Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27328 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:52:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA11111 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:52:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199909171652.MAA11111@listserv.albany.edu> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:52:12 -0400 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8d)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG9906C" To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Content-Length: 113266 Lines: 2441 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 15:06:42 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Barricklow, Walt" Subject: Hackler Punch Comments: To: bee list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A capping scratcher is much cheaper, works better, and as I have a 9 frame supers I don't want the comb all cut off or smashed A Hackler is overpriced, and In my opinion does not work well. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 08:16:36 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: P-O Gustafsson Subject: Re: Drone Layer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > How a queen > knows whether the egg she lays is to be fertilized and how she controls it is > beyond me. I believe she measures the diameter of the cells with her front legs. -- Regards P-O Gustafsson, Sweden beeman@algonet.se http://www.algonet.se/~beeman/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 17:56:30 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: darn@FREENET.EDMONTON.AB.CA Subject: Re: Hackler Honey Punch In-Reply-To: <199906141628.MAA22854@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 14 Jun 1999, Lloyd Spear wrote: > > I understand that this device is really popular in Europe, but has never > caught on in the US. I would appreciate any advice concerning whether this > device is worthwhile or whether I should choose something else. They are much more expensive and much less convenient than just scratching the cappings off with a scratcher. If you want a Hackler Honey Punch you can have mine. Best regards, Donald Aitken Edmonton Alberta Canada ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 17:57:30 -1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mohsen M Ramadan Subject: It has healing for mankind In-Reply-To: <199906121243.IAA20264@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi everyone, Just wanted to add a very old reference (>1400 years ago) to Stefan's list on the healing power of honey from the Muslim Holy Book (The Quran): "And thy Lord taught the Bee to build its cells in hills, on trees, and in men's habitations; then to eat of all the produce of the earth, and find with skill the spacious paths of its Lord: there issues from within their bodies a drink of varying colours, wherein is healing for men: Verily in this is a sign for those who give thought" Chapter 14, Surah (Alnahl=the bees), Verses (68,69). This may trigger a discussion on references in the holy books of other religions or teachings. Aloha Mohsen On Fri, 11 Jun 1999, Stefan Stangaciu wrote: > Honey is however much better because it contains a much wider spectrum > of useful compounds.These compounds (minerals, enzymes, natural antibiotics, bioflavonoids) > even if present in very small amounts, helps for a better and faster > healing. > Stefan Stangaciu. > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 21:18:43 +0300 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jan Tempelman Organization: Goor Subject: Re: help -- organic beekeeping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris Wave wrote: I have been unsuccessful in locating any information on the subject. on varroa and drugs see http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/dronemethod.html greeting jan -- Jan Tempelman Kerkstraat 53 NL 7471 AG GOOR tel: xx.31.(0)547-275788 -- http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/index3.html mailto:jtemp@xs4all.nl -- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 12:47:15 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Anthony N Morgan Organization: Sor-Trondelag College, Division of Electronic Engineering Subject: Re: painting a queen with a white dot MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gothoney@aol.com wrote: > > Is there a right way to do this? How do you hold her? What kind of paint? > What is the risk of doing her harm? Where do you put the paint? How much? etc Some immobilise the queen with a marking cage, some catch her by hand and some even mark her "on the fly"! I'm sure others can recommend a good method (see also earlier postings). Paints, varnishes etc whether in pen type applicators or applied by brush, rod etc have been found by many to be unreliable as far as quantity delivered is concerned and to cause problems due to the "smell" ie the organic solvents. Our supply house here is, this year, selling UNI POSCA water-based marker pens that so far have proved to give well formed spots of consistent quantity/quality. The spot dries very quickly and appears to have little or no smell. The durability of the marking is as far as I'm concerned still an open question, but on all other counts I rate UNI POSCA a winner! Tony Morgan ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 11:37:24 +0200 Reply-To: pln@wanadoo.fr Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jean-Pierre LE PABIC Subject: Re: help -- organic beekeeping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Chris Wave a écrit: > Can anyone on the list point me to organic methods of beekeeping. No > antibiotics, no drugs? Have a look at http://www.apiculture.com/plateau-anti-varroas/ (text in French, English and German). I have been personally using this anti-varroa bottom board for a few years and it looks it works. Until last February, I found between 50 and 200 varroa drops per week under each hive, without any treatment. This remaining infestation was too low to be harmful and from all points of view, all my hives looked quite healthy. Since a few months, I have found only a few varroa drops from time to time. Presently, it is even difficult to find a varroa mite to show to non-beekeepers friends. This unexpected event is too recent to draw any conclusion but it is very encouraging. Besides, waste as well as condensed water are automatically eliminated, which avoids production on the board of bacteria and fungus, potentially a source of diseases. Jean-Pierre LE PABIC RUEIL-MALMAISON (10 km from Paris) FRANCE ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 04:40:01 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Zee Byrd Subject: Extractor speed - manual crank MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I have a two-basket extractor in which I place four super frames for extracting. Since the extractor is a manual hand crank version and came with no instructions, I do not know at how many RPM (revolutions per minute) I should be cranking it. Is there a recommended RPM that will not damage the comb or foundation? Zee zeebyrd@yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 08:31:56 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Extractor speed - manual crank MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/15/99 6:47:56 AM EST, zeebyrd@yahoo.com writes: > > Is there a recommended RPM that will not damage the > comb or foundation? > My wristwatch tachometer is in the shop but I also have an extractor like you describe. Start slow increase speed slowly then stop and reverse the frames and start slow on the other side. You will end up turning the frames in your extractor around 2 times this way but you will avoid blowouts if you only spin them fast when both sides are already more than half empty. I find blowouts from the back side of the comb to be more of a problem than blowouts from the front when you first start cranking. Brand new snow white combs tend to blow out a bit more than combs that have been around a few seasons. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 10:15:31 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Thomas Subject: Unwanted Wild Hive Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, My name is Wade and I have an unwanted wild bee hive forming on the bottom of the trailer in which I live. Could you perhaps offer some information on how to remove it safely. I don't work with bees and I don't know anyone around my area that does. I wouldn't even know how to go about looking for someone to remove it for me. If you have any members of any organizations that are around the Chillicothe OH area I would appreciate it if you would give them my e-mail so I can get the hive from where it is. It is only about 12" square right now but it is in the area that we must use to enter the home. Thanks Allot, Wade aces@eurekanet.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 19:18:16 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Daniel Thommen Subject: Re: help -- organic beekeeping Comments: cc: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jean-Daniel_Charri=E8re?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Chris, If you consider using organic acids (formic and oxalyc acid) to fight against varroa "organic beekeeping", the information on our URL might interrest you. Over here many beekeepers treat their hives with formic acid since about 10 years with great succes. Lately we also used oxalic acid that is even more efficient if applied during no brood periods. Jan's URL given in his last mail desribes a method that also shows good results over here (up to 80% efficiency). We use the method less methodicaly and just cut capped dornes out of the hive. But this treatment alone in unsufficient if done without other measures. Jean-Pierre talked about anti-varroa bottom board in his last mail . We also use it but only to follow the varroa infestation to avoid unnecessary treatment if the varroa chute rate is low enough. Our varroa board is removable and a mesh avoing bee entrance from the bottom is inserted between the colony and the board. Of course, the falling varroas fall rigth through the mesh on to the ground and decreases infestation. But I can assure you that I still need to treat my hives against varroa mites to keep the population under a reasonnable limit. If you are interrested in these treatments, have a look on the articles referenced under http://www.club-association.ch/apigeneve/varroa.html . I'm sorry they are in french ! If you do not know french and do not want to learn it quickly please ask the author or co-author of these articles for an english translation, his address is :Jean-Daniel.Charriere@fam.admin.ch. :-) Daniel Thommen (10 DB hives at 420 m ) Grand Pré 76 1202 Genève (Switzerland) http://www.club-association.ch/apigeneve ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 20:45:49 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Hans van der Meijs Subject: Using linseed oil MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit About the question why using linseed oil, I had to go back for the answer to my old beekeeping teacher. He has used this for many years (decades) when giving beekeeping courses. He told me that he had learned this trick from his old beekeeping-teacher when he was doing his beekeeping teacher course. He told me that this was a method which was also used by old time beekeepers. His and mine experience is that bees are less prone to sting than when you work with with bare hands with nothing on it. About why this is can be of discussion, because I could not find (not yet) any written or scientific evidence. The advantages of using linseed oil. ( You must make your hands rather greasy): 1. because your hands are greasy bees are not prone to sit on it as quickly. 2. propolis will stick less on your hands. 3. because linseed oil is of plant origion, the smell is probably more pleasant for bees. It camouflages the smell of your hands. Are there more beekeepers who have experience with using linseed oil? Or using other substances? Greetings Hans van der Meijs hvdmeijs@kabelfoon.nl ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 16:34:00 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BOGANSRJ@APCI.COM Subject: Beekeeping Ergonomics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If beekeeping was a newly emerging industry I am sure the hive would not look at all as it does today. Ergonomics is not just another buzz word of the 90's, designed to keep consultants gainfully employed. I work in the safety department for a large corporation. We have learned how a properly designed workplace or job function prevents accidents and injuries. I don't see any major design changes in the equipment we use but some simple modifications can be made to make the work safer and easier. I refer to full depth supers as hive bodies. IMHO this is all they should be used for. They are too heavy to handle when filled with honey. I know a commercial beekeeper will argue this because of cost and efficiency of using just one super size. This true but most large operations have cranes, fork lifts etc., that help to overcome some of the handling problems. Regardless of what size super you use the first modification you should make is to the handhold. The half inch groove cut into the side is too small. Attach a cleat, at least 3/4 inch thick, above the handhold. If you try this you will immediately notice the difference it makes. Lifting with just the tips of the fingers is bad for the hands. It may also cause you to rush (because you may feel like it will drop), make a quick twist or turn and injure some other part of your body. The bigger the handhold, the better. You will have better control and when working colonies you won't upset the bees by banging heavy supers. I prefer the medium super to both the shallow or the deep. If I was starting all over, this would be the only size I would use. During the uncapping/extracting process there is the same amount of work with a shallow as a medium with less honey in the end, however shallows have their place too. I have a bad back so I use both shallows and mediums. When the supers are starting to stack up on the hive I try and have the shallows on the very top (above 6 feet). In the honey house I will place three shallows on the floor followed by a few mediums and then shallows on the very top. This way when I bend to the floor or reach above five feet it is with the lighter shallow. This does not create extra work just some common sense planning. When moving a colony, unless it is in the early spring and there is not much honey left, I get a helper. I use a two-person hive lifter and have no problem with the weight. Remember it is not how heavy an item is it is how you lift that counts. A major injury can happen from a poorly lifted 15 lb. weight. Use your legs whenever possible. Outyards present another problem. Placing honey supers in the trunk of a car can really lead to an injury. A pickup truck with a cap is not much better. You overextend trying to get the super in the truck over the tail gate. Removing the tailgate is an inconvenience, but helps a lot. A small trailer may be well worth the investment. The important thing is to think about what you are doing before you do it. Whenever I investigate an accident or injury a number of times we find that is exactly what the employee didn't do. Bee Safe Ron Bogansky ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 01:03:36 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jorn Johanesson Subject: Sv: Hackler Punch MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: Barricklow, Walt Til: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Dato: 15. juni 1999 13:20 Emne: Hackler Punch >A capping scratcher is much cheaper, works better, and as I have a 9 frame >supers I don't want the comb all cut off or smashed >A Hackler is overpriced, and In my opinion does not work well. A hackler punch is used for heather Honey, which you can't get out, without physical influence of the honey. that's why the needles. They are not to scratch with, but the needles have to get up down into the cells. You can use the combs afterwards as usual, because the bees will repair the damage to the combs that might have occurred. best regards Jorn Johanesson EDBi = multilingual Beekeeping software since 1987 http://home4.inet.tele.dk/apimo (Denmark) http://wn.com.au/apimo (Australia) http://apimo.dk (USA) Now much more efficient for download apimo@post4.tele.dk apimo@wn.com.au Jorn_Johanesson@apimo.dk > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 02:27:05 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Sid Pullinger Subject: Measuring cells MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit <<<<>>>> I read somewhere many years ago of experiments designed to check this. Removal of a portion of one antenna left the queen completely dis-orientated and she laid worker and drone eggs indiscriminately. I suppose that using antennae would be more sensitive than using legs. Perhaps someone can come up with more positive evidence. Sid P. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 18:54:55 +0100 Reply-To: John Burgess Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Burgess Subject: Re: help -- organic beekeeping Comments: To: pln@wanadoo.fr MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jean-Pierre LE PABIC wrote> > Have a look at http://www.apiculture.com/plateau-anti-varroas/ (text in > French, English and German). As I recall, this device is a hive floor constructed of closely spaced metal tubes, which allow the mites to fall through. My question is: does this have any advantages over the mesh varroa floor used without a bottom board, as discussed in posts earlier this year? John Burgess, Editor Gwenynwyr Cymru/The Welsh Beekeeper ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 21:05:34 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tom Elliott Subject: Re: help -- what do feeble beekeepers do? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Harry Goudie wrote: > Have you thought about using a Top Bar Hive rather than the conventional > style? . . . The only lifting you will have to do is one frame at a time. For a hobbiest with only a few hives it is quit convenient to use standard deeps moving only one frame at a time. At harvest time, for example you begin with an empty box on a hand truck (or what ever you may choose to use) and fill it one frame at a time. When the super you are harvesting is empty, it becomes the next empty to be filled. It won't work with very many hives since it is time consuming, bit it is easy to lift. Tom -- "Test everything. Hold on to the good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21) Tom Elliott Chugiak, Alaska U.S.A. beeman@gci.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 11:10:48 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ahlert Schmidt Subject: Re: help -- what do feeble beekeepers do? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Elizabeth Petrofi! You have been asking what to do with heavy supers needed to be lifted in beekeeping. Well, there is one solution which could be helpful in your situation, however this will involve a quite different way of bee keeping you might be used to. The principle is the following: There is a hive (in Germany called Golz-Beute) which has a setup, that you have the one broodchamber with say 17 combs (my system I am working with) and this brood chamber is seperated by a vertical queen excluder for the honey room. By such a setup you can reach any comb in a beehive without lifting anything, just take off the lid and you can reach either a comb from the bood chamber or the comb from the honey room. There are no supers etc, just one bee hive, which is standing an a small stand, so that you do not need to bend over. In such a system you are lifting only one comb at a time, thats it. I am aware, that people are saying that such a system would not work, since bees will take the honey to the top and not to the "backyard". However, this is not true. I am working with such a system now for 25 years ( with 30 hives) and I love it; I would not like to work with the langstroth type bee hive at all, since beekeeping with such a "Golz-Beute" is quite easier and handling the bees is much quieter. A lot of beekeepers, especially oder once are using this system for reasons that they are not able to keep bees inlvolving heavy lifting. If you are interested, I could send you some pictures and a drawing of the hive dimensions etc. I assure you, it is pleasant to work with a system where each comb can be reached withoud any lifting. With best regards Ahlert Schmidt Prof. Dr. Ahlert Schmidt Institute of Botany University of Hannover Germany e-mail: Ahlert.Schmidt@mbox.botanik.uni-hannover.de ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 15:16:42 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Haberl Organization: Hessische Landesanstalt fuer Tierzucht Subject: Re: Measuring cells MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sid Pullinger wrote: >> I believe she measures the diameter of the cells with >> her front legs. > I read somewhere many years ago of experiments designed > to check this. ... Perhaps someone can come up with more > positive evidence. >>> Posting number 25870, dated 6 Jan 1999 11:38:49 ... A study by Dr. Koeniger (1970) nicely demonstrated that the front legs of a queen are involved in a queen's 'decision' whether to fertilise or not to fertilise an egg. When both front legs are amputated (at the trochanter = part of an insect's leg near the body) queens laid about 89 % fertilised eggs in drone cells. Amputation at more distal parts of the front legs resulted in lower frequencies of fertilised eggs in drone cells. The author suggests that sperm release is the 'normal' status and that drone cells block the release. He speculates that queen cells do not contain this inhibiting stimulus of drone cells and therefore eggs laid in queen cells get fertilised. ... -- Michael Haberl Hessische Landesanstalt fuer Tierzucht, Abt. Bienenzucht Erlenstr. 9, 35274 Kirchhain, Germany, 51n 9w Tel: ++49 6422 9406-12; Fax: -33 haberl@mailer.uni-marburg.de ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 06:59:41 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: eabell Subject: Re: help -- what do feeble beekeepers do? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I fail to see how bee escapes minimize lifting. You must first remove the supers to get the bee escape in place. Seems to me you will do more lifting, not less. Bill Truesdell wrote: > Elizabeth, > For minimial lifting of supers, but this is time consuming, visit > the beeyard the day before removing supers and put on a bee > excape. I like the triangular ones that are on a inner cover. The -- Eric & Marnie Abell Box 87 Gibbons, AB T0A 1N0 Canada Phone/fax (780) 998 3143 eabell@compusmart.ab.ca ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 08:30:03 -0500 Reply-To: beekeeper@honeyhillfarm.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: wtroyer Organization: Honey Hill Farm Subject: Re: Beekeeping Ergonomics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit BOGANSRJ@APCI.COM wrote: > When moving a colony, unless it is in the early spring and there is not much > honey left, I get a helper. I found a method for lifting hives that may be very beneficial to anyone with access to a tractor having a hydraulically operated three point hitch. Many small farm tractors have this hitch as standard equipment. I found an inexpensive platform type loader at a tractor supply store for about $50 that fits standard catergory one, three point hitches. Add a 3/4 inch thick plywood floor and front and the platform becomes an excellent hive loader. Just back up to the hive, lower the platform, slide the hive on, lift it gently up, then haul it to the new location. To reset the hive, back up to the hive stand, lower it, slide it off and the work is done. I can move a 180 pound hive alone by using this equipment to do the actual lifting. I only have to provide the force necessary to slide the hive on and off the platform. This sliding force is only a fraction of the total hive weight. I position the platform a bit lower than the hive base for loading and a bit higher for unloading. Bees react very favorably to gentle handling with this loading method. I usually don't have to close the entrance for a short move. This information should be useful to those with lifting limitations and to those who want to more safely handle hives. Contact me for more detail. Wade -- Web: http://www.honeyhillfarm.com Mail: beekeeper@honeyhillfarm.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 10:47:37 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: help -- what do feeble beekeepers do? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit eabell wrote: > I fail to see how bee escapes minimize lifting. You must first > remove the supers to get the bee escape in place. Seems to me you > will do more lifting, not less. If you have more than two supers on a hive, agree. But with two, tilt them up, slide in the excape, position it by nudging the supers over it and then the excape over the hive body. Pushing is easier than lifting. Or, use beegone or something similar to clear the supers. I do not like it and use escapes instead. Nor would I use a bee brush. Too many bees in the air. Bill T Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 20:09:01 +0200 Reply-To: pln@wanadoo.fr Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jean-Pierre LE PABIC Subject: Re: help -- organic beekeeping Comments: To: John Burgess MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit John Burgess a écrit: > As I recall, this device is a hive floor constructed of closely spaced metal > tubes, which allow the mites to fall through. > My question is: does this have any advantages over the mesh varroa floor > used without a bottom board, as discussed in posts earlier this year? > > John Burgess, Editor Gwenynwyr Cymru/The Welsh Beekeeper This hive floor is constructed of plastic tubes and not of metal tubes for a few reasons : Plastic is cheap. Such a manufactured bottom-board would not be more expensive than an ordinary bottom board. It may be transparent, allowing light to enter the hive, which makes bees milder. It is not heat-conducting. Even when it is freezing, bees can walk on the tubes without getting cold. The comparison that I can do between the tubes board and the mesh board is the following : The holes are much bigger in the tubes board : 3.5 X 450 mm instead of 2.2 X 2.2 mm. A much higher proportion of varroa mites should therefore fall through the board. Much bigger scraps are also eliminated. I can find cells caps under my hives. And the smaller the holes are, the easier they are filled in. Ventilation is mild and evenly distributed in the tubes board. The total aperture is six times less than in the mesh board. A second slatted bottom board to be used in winter is therefore unnecessary, at least in place where winters are not too cold. Here in Paris, temperature may drop to -5 °C during a week or two. I have not yet experimented lower temperatures. Stainless steel mesh is very expensive. A first experiment has been carried out in France on one hive with a mesh board (See : L’Abeille de France, July-August 1998). The author reported that withered wings bees appeared during the first year without treatment and disappeared later. That is about what I observed myself. One of my hives has not receive any treatment for three years, the others for two years. Best regards. Jean-Pierre LE PABIC RUEIL-MALMAISON (10 km from Paris) FRANCE ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 20:09:29 +0200 Reply-To: pln@wanadoo.fr Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jean-Pierre LE PABIC Subject: Re: help -- organic beekeeping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Daniel Thommen a écrit: > > Jean-Pierre talked about anti-varroa bottom board in his last mail . We also > use it but only to follow the varroa infestation to avoid unnecessary > treatment if the varroa chute rate is low enough. Daniel, You should try to stop any treatment on at least a few hives. (See : L’Abeille de France, July-August 1998). There will be withered wings bees during a year or two but not enough to really weaken the hives. One of my hives has not received any treatment for three years, the others for two years. It is so much better not to have to treat in any way. Best regards. Jean-Pierre LE PABIC RUEIL-MALMAISON (10 km from Paris) FRANCE ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 20:09:15 +0200 Reply-To: pln@wanadoo.fr Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jean-Pierre LE PABIC Subject: Re: help -- organic beekeeping Comments: To: De Witt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit De Witt a écrit: > Have you had any problems in wintering over? I.e. hive gets too cold? I was > going to try to make one using PVC water pipe but was talked out of it for > this problem. In winter in Paris temperature usually drops to -5 °C during a week or two. The hives could certainly stand lower temperatures. The diameter of the tubes must be the frame spacing less the gap between them. This gap must be as large as possible but bees must not be able to go through. With a frame spacing of 37.5 mm and a gap of 3.5 mm, the tubes diameter must be 34 mm. I doubt that you find PVC water pipes with this diameter. > It seems to make sence as the only feral hive I know of is hung under a > branch and the mites just fall out of the hive. Last year, I was called to remove bees from a poplar in a garden near La Défense. I noticed that the bees had many holes to get in and out but none of them were in the bottom. It was empty under the combs and, in the bottom, there were plenty of waste, but bees never went there. And it was impossible to fallen varroa mites to climb back to the colony. Best regards. Jean-Pierre LE PABIC RUEIL-MALMAISON (10 km from Paris) FRANCE ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 22:17:16 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: HOCHHEIMER@AOL.COM Subject: To kill AHB without damaging comb MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Beekeepers; I just wanted to share my experiences in killing off a colony this week using dry ice. I have been following this thread with keen interest, as I have an overly mean hive in the apiary to dispose of. I followed the best advice given here, in my opinion, and obtained a block of about three pounds of dry ice. I simply placed this on the inner cover over the small center opening. The entrance was first sealed off with the reducer strip of wood. Then a large industrial sized plastic trashbag was used to engulf the two deep hive bodies. The bottom edges were drawn taught and taped to the bottomboard. This was done at dusk last night and and it took about 10 minutes. The carbon dioxide gas immediately anesthetized the bees and they were silent within about fifteen to twenty minutes. I was not sure how long it would take to completely suffocate them, so I left the hive in this condition until this evening. About 98% of the bees were dead, and the survivors were not a problem. I cleaned up the sections with a beebrush and scrapper. While there was some moisture, and wet bees, it was not a problem. This is a simple and effective method and does not rely on any toxic chemicals. My equipment is now ready for some new gentle stock! Thanks for the good advice Lane Westover, Scott Moser, and Adrain Wenner. Tom Hochheimer Hochheimer@aol.com Chester County (southeastern), PA 40.0 N, 75.5 W ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 18:39:11 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Joseph Augusta Subject: Honey in San Francisco (or bay area)? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I can't find any good honey in S.F. I wondered if anyone on the list could point me in the direction of a local beekeeper or vender. any help appreciated! private replies can be sent to faugusta@sprynet.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 17:31:06 -1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mohsen M Ramadan Subject: It has healing for mankind MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Dear Stefan, Sarah, and Jennifer: The Arabic translation for "wherein is healing for men" refers to the honey and may also refer to the bee as a whole, its secretions (venom, royaljelly), and bee products (Pollen, propolis). However, the English translation of the verses does not show the gender of the bees. The Arabic verbs (to build, to eat, to find, and to issue from their bodies) are all refering to a female gender (=worker). Which makes me wonder if there is any healings from drones or queens. Peace Mohsen ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 07:47:14 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: P-O Gustafsson Subject: Re: Measuring cells MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > The author suggests that sperm release is the 'normal' > status and that drone cells block the release. He speculates > that queen cells do not contain this inhibiting stimulus > of drone cells and therefore eggs laid in queen cells > get fertilised. I have found that the bees make the entrance to a queen cell the same diameter as worker cells, so I think the same mechanism determine the fertilization of the queen cells. Bees make some cell cups early in the season, with larger size entrance. Closer to swarming time they start reducing the entrance, you can actually judge how close to swarming they are from the look of those cell cups often found on the bottom bars of the frames. But I also believe there are some "chemical" stimuli involved to get the queen to lay in them at the "right" time. -- Regards P-O Gustafsson, Sweden beeman@algonet.se http://www.algonet.se/~beeman/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 15:13:09 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Anthony N Morgan Organization: Sor-Trondelag College, Division of Electronic Engineering Subject: Re: Measuring cells MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sid Pullinger wrote: > ...Removal of a portion of one antenna left the queen completely > dis-orientated and she laid worker and drone eggs indiscriminately. > ... Michael Haberl wrote: > ...When both front legs are (partially) amputated queens laid about > 89 % fertilised eggs in drone cells. Amputation at more distal > parts of the front legs resulted in lower frequencies of > fertilised eggs in drone cells. > ... I do not find these two "findings" incompatible. If the queen positions herself head down into the cell opening making use of the front legs and then "measures" the diameter of the cell with her antennae it would not be surprising if "damage" to either the legs or the antennae resulted in a "mis-judgement" of the cell size. This theory does not quite match the findings reported above however, particularly the second which should logically result in unfertilised eggs in worker cells. Any comments anyone? cheers Tony -- Anthony N Morgan, Førsteammanuensis Institutt for Elektroteknikk Høgskolen i Sør-Trøndelag N-7004 Trondheim, Norway anthony@iet.hist.no Tlf. 73 55 96 04 Fax. 73 55 95 81 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 14:32:29 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Eliminating the need to find the queen Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello All Great emphasis is placed in my area on finding queens. In fact there are two kinds of beekeepers, those who can find queens at the drop of a hat (or a veil!), and those who like myself have a major problem in finding her. I am now of the opinion that I will never be in the league of the expert queen finders, and I must use different procedures to attempt to achieve the same end. With my track record, I cannot live with procedures which depend on finding the queen. I have trawled through as much documentation as I can, to find stratagems to carry out beekeeping without ever seeing a queen, and I show below how I am using some of these approaches. I would be most grateful for comments and improvements, as I have only recently started using them. I use what may be termed a 'Queen Isolator'. It consists of a Brood Chamber to which a queen excluder in pristine condition is nailed on the underside. The queen excluder must be in tip top condition since I am totally depending on it to exclude the queen. A cloth is placed to the top of the 'Queen Isolator' to protect the brood from chilling. 1. IMHO I never need to see the queen among thousands of bees. During normal manipulations I need to see evidence of her existence in the form of eggs or larvae. (And if I cannot see eggs, I come back in four days and I should see larvae). 2. I must however be certain of where the queen is NOT. during swarm control, creating nucs, and requeening a hive. To generate a 'box' of bees and brood without the queen, I remove one by one from the hive, the frames in which I am interested, and gently brush off ALL of the bees back into the hive. I do not shake, especially if the frame contains a queen cell in which I am interested. I then place the frames as they are cleared of bees, into the 'Queen Isolator' and cover them with the cloth. Having processed all of the frames in which I am interested, I place the 'Queen Isolator' on a strong hive. Bees, without the queen, will move up through the queen excluder to cover the frames. It normally takes about a half an hour (depending on temperature), to get a good covering of bees on the frames. Other hives can then be examined while the 'Queen Isolator' is being loaded with bees, and any frames from other hives in which I am interested eg those with queen cells, can be added to the 'Queen Isolator' as required, where for example I am building mating nucs. I have used the above procedure during this season, and it seems to work. The contents of the 'Queen Isolator' can then be used to create an artificial swarm or a series of nucs etc. because we know that it does not contain a queen. 3. Although I have not yet tried it, I am going to use this procedure to eliminate the queen when a colony is to be requeened. (I have such a colony coming up for this procedure shortly). I am going to use the procedure outlined in 2 above until all but the queen and the drones have moved into the 'Queen Isolator', and the queen, then in the hive box should be easily identified among the drones. In fact can the old brood chamber be just tossed out on to the grass some distance away, allowing the drones to fly and the queen to be lost?. The 'Queen Isolator' now contains the bees and brood from the entire hive, but without the queen. I do not know how long it will take to isolate the queen and the drones in this case, but I am looking forward to trying it. 4. A variation on 3 above appeared in the American Bee Journal which effectively works in reverse. Under this system, the queen and drones end up in the 'Queen Isolator'. This approach has the advantage that the process can be speeded up by using smoke, since the bees are being driven down from the 'Queen Isolator' into a spare brood chamber. I am going to try this also. Using the above procedures IMHO, a beekeeper never has to be worried about finding the queen. Just use the 'Queen Isolator' and any problem involving the queen can be solved. One thing that does strike me is, that the system depends on the assumption that a queen can never pass through a queen excluder. I would imagine that this proposition is not completely true, as queens with abnormally small thoraxes must sometimes occur. This means that the system is not 100% dependable but I would guess that it will succeed far more times than it will fail. Comments, criticisms and additional information received as always with gratitude. Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park, Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland Tel + 353 1 289 5269 Fax + 353 1 289 9940 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 10:02:58 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Measuring cells Comments: cc: wenner@lifesci.ucsb.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT The discussion of whether it's the queen's antenna or forelegs and the experiments involving removing portions thereof and the conclusions drawn as it regards laying of fertilized (or not) eggs reminds me of the scientist who was experimenting on the distance a frog can jump. The scientist measured the jumping distance of a four legged frog by screaming at the frog, "JUMP FROG, JUMP!" After many trials the scientist determined that the mean jumping distance of a four legged frog is twelve feet. The scientist then chopped off a leg of his guinea pig, er, test frog and yelled, "JUMP FROG, JUMP!" After many trials the scientist determined that the mean jumping distance of a three legged frog is 8 feet. Continuing with the experiment, the scientist chopped another of the frog's legs and shouted, "JUMP FROG, JUMP!" and after many trials concluded that the mean jumping distance of a two legged frog is three feet, and likewise determined that the mean jumping distance of a one legged frog is one foot. Taking the experiment to it's logical conclusion the scientist chopped off the frog's last leg and yelled "JUMP FROG, JUMP!". When the frog didn't move the scientist shouted, "JUMP FROG, JUMP!". Unfortunately no amount of screaming, yelling or shouting could get the poor frog to jump, at which point the scientist concluded that all frogs with no legs are deaf. My recollection from the latest edition of the queen rearing text by Laidlaw and Paige (sorry, I don't recall the specific title) is that the mechanics whereby a queen fertilizes an egg (or not) are fully understood, but the triggering mechanism is mere speculation, including a possible realization on the queen's part that she is laying in a worker or drone cell, possible because she can SEE the difference. So I wonder if queens with portions of their antenna and/or forelegs removed might be blind. Aaron Morris - thinking apologies are due to frog lovers. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 11:05:54 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Thom Bradley Subject: finding queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sometime ago I posted re: the use of a new/guarded queen in a cage to entice an existing queen to the cage in order to ease the effort of finding her. The first time it worked. I have had the opportunity to try this on three other occasions. I wish to report that on none of these occasions has this method been productive. Unless another 'keeper has the opportunity to fine-tune this method, I will abandon it as a good effort and logical concept but not in the character of the bees. Thom Bradley Chesapeake, VA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 10:44:51 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Musashi Subject: Re: Eliminating the need to find the queen Using a "Queen Isolator" as described by Tom Barrett (Dublin, Ireland) would seem to me to be a handy addition to one's set of choices for tools to use in making splits and being relatively assured of when the queen is NOT. It uses good logic and ought to work almost all of the time. I would wonder about how much of the time the queen that is dumped out somewhere else with the drones might make it back into the hive. Theoretically, if she is in full laying form, she will have great difficulty flying to make it back, but bees often surprise us and do things we think they cannot do. Still, odds are that it will work. The second thought I had was that (and this is probably assumed and implicit in what Tom was describing) virgin queens have to be able to get out and back into the hive for mating and returning to lay. That's why if a hive supersedes with a pollen collector on the entrance, it can become queenless. If there is a queen excluder on the bottom and no top entrance, you'd have the same problem. Therefore I assume that as soon as you've isolated the frames and bees from which to make the split that you move them into a normal hive body with no excluder in place so the new queen can normally mate and return. Other than that, I don't see why everything Tom has described shouldn't work fine. I, on the other hand, personally receive a great sense of accomplishment when I find a queen, and wouldn't want to deprive myself of that feeling and pleasure in concluding a successful hunt with its attendant thrill. That way I also have a winder range of options open to me. It's part of the satisfaction I receive from beekeeping. As a matter of fact, I got a great sense of satisfaction the other day from finding a laying worker in one of my hives and dispatching her. Her size was not so much different from the other workers, and her body form was only slightly queen-like, but her behavior was quite different from the other bees, and their behavior towards her was different than toward each other. I was therefore "sure" I had found her. I recommend this experience as a very good one to anyone who hasn't had it yet. Layne Westover College Station, Texas ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 08:06:58 +1200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lewis Subject: New Scientist honey bee article MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The June 5, 1999 New Scientist magazine has an article on honey bees - Home Sweet Home. This article describes how a swarm of bees go about describing where to start their new hive. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 16:13:53 -0700 Reply-To: r@citybees.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert MacKimmie Subject: Bees in the San Francisco Bay Area ... Comments: cc: faugusta@sprynet.com Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 4.2mach v148) The San Francisco Bay Area is terrific for bees and honey! It may be more difficult to produce, but it is worth it. While we may have to battle fog when the rest of the country is sweltering, the Bay Area climate creates a vast array of microclimates which produce very unique honeys neighborhood to neigborhood, and each hive can vary dramatically by season. As if we didn't know that about each of our hives, but in San Francisco the variety is heightened by the extremes of the climate. There is a good contingent of beekeepers in this area. If I could offer up two shameful shameless plugs, there is the article just a few weeks old that was front page in the Sunday paper: "http://eXaminer.com/990523/0523farms.html" and there is the website "http://www.citybees.com", which has what might be a helpful resources page of internet links and information for every level of beekeeping. Hope this helps. Cheers, robert@citybees.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 10:00:44 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: FAITHAB@AOL.COM Subject: Fascinating discovery - literary, that is MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, As a writer I sometimes need to find the source for a quote. Today I needed to find a good use of the word "honey" in the Bible. What a surprise. There are 59 such usages. If anyone is interested or just curious about which ones they are and what they say, check out this site. http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible Faith Andrews Bedford, Ivy VA and Tampa - ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 16:07:50 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Jean J. MENIER" Subject: how many ... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Bee-lers, My apologies if this question has been raised many times before : do we have an estimation of the number of bee-hives in the world ? web address(es) on the subject welcome too. Thanks a lot, Sincerely, Jean J. Menier Professor, Head of Coleoptera Dept., Head of SEM and TEM Dept. Muséum national d'Histoire naturelle 45, rue Buffon, 75005 Paris France Telephone : 01 40 79 33 92 Telecopy : 01 40 79 36 99 Visit us at : http://www.mnhn.fr ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 12:14:45 -0500 Reply-To: lkrengel@mc.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Larry Krengel Subject: Re: Fascinating discovery - literary, that is MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Adding to Faith's recent literary discovery - If you find yourself in Madison, Wisconsin USA... visit the special collections. They have over 5000 volumes in the C. C. Miller collection... most on honey bees... and some as much as 400 years old. Under their watchful eye, you are welcome to read any of these priceless tomes. The curator, Jill Rosenschield, knows the story behind many of them. It is an interesting stop well worth the time. Larry Krengel Marengo, IL ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 13:18:12 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ernest Huber Subject: Eliminating the need to find the queen? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello BEE-L, On 6/17/99 Tom Barret wrote about using what he called a Queen Isolator to avoid having to find the queen. Unfortunately there are times when one MUST find the queen. For us hobbyist beekeepers one of these times comes at the worst time-ie when the hive population is really huge (like two or three layers deep on the frames) and also when the hive is very aggressive (like they fly up at your face as soon as you barely crack the inner cover). If such a hive is very productive and has overwintered well AND if it is remote from humans then normally one might tend to leave it be, or at worst one could carry out anti-swarm procedures by shaking frames or brushing frames in order to carry out a Demaree. A backyard hobby beekeeper however needs to do something about such a hive in a more benign, less disruptive way in order to reclaim his backyard and to keep his neighbors from complaining. The standard advice in this case is to requeen, which means you MUST find the old queen. I have tried just about every method that has ever been described in print-and some that aren't in print to find the queen in this type of situation. I have tried the upside-down version of the Queen Isolator that Tom alludes to, as described in the ABJ. It didn't work because, a) these particular bees' response to smoke was to move UP and not DOWN through the excluder and,b) because this particular queen, I am convinced, could fly (and did). About the only method that I have consistently had success with under the above described situation is to MOVE THE HIVE a short distance and then leave behind a nucleus colony to recapture the foragers from the moved colony. Then, about a day or two or three later-after the mean old foragers have gone back to the old hive stand- the moved colony can EASILY be gone through for queen finding. The bees are no longer two or three deep on the frames. They no longer erupt in a cloud when you crack the inner cover and they no longer dive-bomb your face in a ferocious attack. The left-behind nucleus colony then contains the new queen for reconstructing the old colony on the original spot. I would appreciate it if some of you other BEE-L members would comment on my method, but it is the only method that I have found to be a reasonable one for aggressive hives in a close-to-the-neighbors type of situation. Sincerely, Ernie Huber ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 22:16:45 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Becky or Al S Boehm Subject: all those drone brood There has been alot of conversation about drone brood and what to do about it and also about drone brood laying queens. When I come across an extra amount of drone brood even whole frames I watch them till they are almost ready to come out of there cells but still snow white. Check every couple days. Then pop them in the freezer. Next I tell a man I work with that the bait is ready. He pays hansomly with fresh fish and I get a clean frame back. Swears that the sinker never takes the line all the way down. Someday I will go fishing with him and check it out for myself. Al Boehm NC ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 14:51:09 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Eliminating the need to find the queen Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello All Ernest Huber describes an interesting method for handling the re queening of an aggressive colony in a location surrounded by neighbours. He has effectively 'bled' off the aggressors and at the same time got them to accept the new queen by placing the nucleus on the stand of the old hive. This seems like an excellent idea. If he now uses the Queen Isolator on the moved hive will not the queen be trapped below the Isolator and be easily dispatched without having to be found in the traditional way?. I suppose the question of brushing off or shaking the bees in a suburban location may possibly cause alarm due to the number of flying bees, but at least we are now dealing with the less aggressive bees. I have recently begun using water instead of smoke to calm the bees during manipulations, and the next time I use the Queen Isolator, I am going to spray the bees slightly (rather like the procedure for getting bees for an Apidea), before I brush them into the hive, as I believe that this will significantly reduce the number of flying bees. I will try Ernest's suggestion of using the nucleus, and I will post an account of what happens. Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park, Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland Tel + 353 1 289 5269 Fax + 353 1 289 9940 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 16:03:29 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Scott Moser Subject: Pesticide Use MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings all, I have a question for the list about the use of pesticides in the garden. My tomato plants are beginning to show signs of being eaten by tomato worms. I was told Rotenone is safe to use on plants around bees, and was wondering if this is true. I was also wondering if the bacteria dust called Dipel is even safer to use since it targets worms like the tomato worm and cabbage worms. Which would be safest and most effective. Any info would be great. Thanks. Scott Moser " I believe that beekeeping mirrors life. One must endure a few stings to reach the final sweet reward." S. Moser ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 16:01:10 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Robert Barnett Subject: Re: Eliminating the need to find the queen? Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit >Hello BEE-L, This simple method will work almost as well. I have an old picnic table that I keep behind my backyard colonies...about 20-25 feet behind them in fact. Unstack the supers to one side of the colony, break the brood nest from the bottom board, and carry the brood box back to the table. Place the supers back on the bottom board. Place an extra unused brood box three feet down the table . Now extract the frames in order, examine for the queen, and let the guards all ornery workers fly! They immediately go back over to the hive site and enter the supers, ready to defend them. As observed in the response post, most all but the young bees and queen return. If you fail to find the queen in one time through, relook as you return the frames to their proper box... At that point there are many fewer bees and almost no meanies, and there should be no problem finding the queen. I have one other suggestion for Tom, who says he just doesn't have the ability to find the queen. Try this. Build a four frame, stand size Nuc containing all those ingredients for making an emergency queen....eggs, day old larvae or a grafted Jzz..Bzz cell, pollen, and honey- feed syrup. Watch these cells develop, carefully observing what happens and when. They should cap at 4 1/2-5 days, and hatch on day 10.5-12.. Out on the 11the day start looking in the nuc at least daily, or even more....this doesn't have to be a true SWARM BOX. you want a good queen, but a great one is not necessary. But go into this nuc as often as you can...You may not even need smoke; virgin queens tend to be 'runny' or nervous, but grow rapidly especially after they mate, but are usually quite easy to find, even just hatched virgins, with few bees and none mean. Your problem, Tom, is that you have not been to successful finding the queen, and I recall when I first became a beekeeper, my confidence level was not great either, and this little trick taught me how to find queens. I do add however, I hope you are using Italians....these big yellow to Orange babes are eyecatching! Caucasians and other dark bees with coal black queens are never as easy to spot....when I have had these, I just MARK 'EM...with a white liquid paper dot! You can't beat this with a stick! And good luck! ---------- > From: Ernest Huber > Subject: Eliminating the need to find the queen? > Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 13:18:12 -0400 > . The standard advice in this case is to requeen, which >means you MUST find the old queen. > About the only method that I have consistently had success with >under the above described situation is to MOVE THE HIVE a short distance and >then leave behind a nucleus colony to recapture the foragers > I would appreciate it if some of you other BEE-L members would >comment on my method, but it is the only method that I have found to be a >reasonable one for aggressive hives in a close-to-the-neighbors type of >situation. > Sincerely, Ernie Huber > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 09:57:27 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Harry Goudie Subject: Re: Eliminating the need to find the queen? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ernie Huber Wrote:- > I would appreciate it if some of you other BEE-L members would >comment on my method, but it is the only method that I have found to be a >reasonable one for aggressive hives in a close-to-the-neighbors type of >situation. > I agree that this method is a good one for finding the queen in an aggressive stock. I don't know why Tom was trying to find the queen but if his reason was to requeen to obtain a non aggressive stock then he would have to make sure that the replacement queen was from a non aggressive strain. It would be no good just to allow the bees to produce another queen naturally. I suspect that all the bees in his area are of an aggressive strain. The danger of importing varroa then becomes very real and he might just have to work with aggressive bees. Harry Scottish Bee Issues:- http://www.luichartwoollens.freeserve.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 16:58:00 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Pesticide Use Comments: cc: HDoleKlein@compuserve.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Scott Moser asked: > I have a question for the list about the use of pesticides in the >garden. My tomato plants are beginning to show signs of being eaten by >tomato worms. I was told Rotenone is safe to use on plants around bees, and >was wondering if this is true. I was also wondering if the bacteria dust >called Dipel is even safer to use since it targets worms like the tomato >worm and cabbage worms. Which would be safest and most effective. Any info >would be great. Thanks. In our book: 1991 Klein, H.D. and A.M. Wenner. Tiny Game Hunting: Environmentally Healthy Ways to Trap and Kill the Pests in Your House and Garden. Bantam, New York, we advocated placing some light colored material (such as worn out sheets --- don't use your wife's good sheets) under the tomato plants. In a few hours, look for the tomato hornworm fecal pellets. Then just look straight up and find the culprit. Even though the larva may be remarkably well camouflaged, the fecal pellets give it away (they can only fall straight down, you know). I enjoy taking the hornworms so found and tossing them out on the lawn for the jays to consume --- making new friends in the process. Remember, pesticides kill far more targets than those intended. Your library may have a copy of our book, but it is now out of print. Fortunately, the University of California Press will publish a new version once we get through with revisions. Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 963-8508 (home phone) 967 Garcia Road (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 **************************************************************************** ********** * * "The most difficult task of the scientist is to suspend judgment about what is * true and what is not." * (Susan Cozzens, 1985) * **************************************************************************** ********** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 11:27:12 GMT+0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garth Organization: Rhodes University South Africa Subject: An ergonomically correct langstroth hive MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi All I have read the posts regarding ergonomics of hives and 'feeble' beekeeper problems - I believe given the nature of the human back we are all feeble so the following is universally useful. I have a few hives given to me by an elderly beekeeper. He used a single deep hive body and shallow supers. On the side of each box he attached two of those metal braces one uses for attaching 1.5cm (1inch) plastic piping to walls. These were screwed in. When he came to the hive he would have a sturdy iron pole with him which he placed through all the braces. Then he had a wheel barrow with extracted super frames and boxes next to him - he would open the top of the hive, remove any capped frames and then replace them with light empties, then he would rotate the now empty super so it was suspended next to the hive on the pole (like a hinge) and he would move on to the next super and work his way down. Then he got somebody to push the wheel barrow back to the farmhouse and swung the hive back together. This system works very nicely although with the number of hives I have it is impractical. Keep well Garth Garth Cambray Camdini Apiaries 15 Park Road Grahamstown Apis mellifera capensis 6139 South Africa Time = Honey ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 20:39:02 +0900 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: j h & e mcadam Subject: Re: Eliminating the need to find the queen? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Ernie Huber wrote: > I have tried the upside-down version of the Queen Isolator that >Tom alludes to, as described in the ABJ. It didn't work... > About the only method that I have consistently had success with >under the above described situation is to MOVE THE HIVE a short distance and >then leave behind a nucleus colony to recapture the foragers from the moved >colony. The method described by Ernie was recommended to me as a new beekeeper faced with an aggressive colony by a local queen breeder. I also recommend it for all small scale beekeepers or those who have their hives close at hand so travelling time is not a consideration. This method avoids all confrontation and works within the instinctive behaviour pattern to make life easier for the beekeeper and still achieve the desired manipulation. It is not necessary to move the hive far. I simply turn the aggressive hive at 90 degrees and place the new hive box in the front. I do not introduce a queen to the front hive. It may help the bees settle if a frame of sealed brood is placed in the front. After a few days, all foragers will have returned to the front hive and the original hive can be searched with minimum smoke since it will then be populated mainly by the queen, drones and nurse bees. After culling the queen (with great satisfaction), the hive can be united and a new queen introduced. Since the front box has not been exposed to a competing queen, they will accept an introduced queen with alacrity. One hint for locating hard-to-spot queens. If queen is in bottom brood box (I use queen excluders), smoke entrance lightly and wait 1 minute. Open hive and remove any supers. Remove outside frame, examine for queen and lean against front. Do the same for other outside frame. Now, leaving a space between frames and the hive side, lift one frame at a time working from one side to the other, looking ONLY for the queen (no distractions, no admiring of brood pattern, no egg inspection). 30 seconds a frame is usually enough. Smoke the entrance if bees start to run about on the frame but not the top of the frames. If the queen still eludes you, repeat the frame inspection. It is very rarely that I cannot find the queen within 3 minutes using this method. With practice, the queen can be located by identifying where the majority of bees are. As the queen moves across the frame, workers will turn their heads towards her leaving a small space around her and this pattern is easy to detect. As long as the hive has not been alarmed, the queen will be going about her duties. By continually selecting lines for docility and productivity and culling aggressive hives (measuring the level of aggression against the other hives in the apiary on that day) I rarely encounter the aggressive behaviour of my early hives. Because of travelling time to apiary sites, I now use the Queen Isolator described by Tom. The queens to be culled are known before I arrive in the apiary and I take extra care to pause after smoking and to move very, very slowly in removing frames. I carry the queens in introduction cages to the apiary and plan on requeening 10 - 12 hives in one day, as well as working 30 + hives for honey. Betty McAdam HOG BAY APIARY Penneshaw, Kangaroo Island J.H. & E. McAdam Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Pesticide Use MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit With every post like this, you will get loads of don't use them at all. Good advice, but early in the season I use sevin, which is deadly to bees, to kill cucumber beetles. If I did not, I would lose most of my plants. So, if you are going to use pesticide around bees do not use powders. Bees will pick it up like pollen and carry it back, if they make it, to the hive which results in more bees killed, and maybe even the queen. Encapsulated powders are even worse, since they are about the size of pollen. In order of least harmful to most- oil or water based sprays, wettable powder, powder, encapsulated powder. If you use rotenone, do not use it as a powder but mix it with water and spray. Spray in the evening after the bees have stopped flying. Avoid flowers but aim at foliage. Avoid drift to flowering plants- even weeds- in the area. Spray when the weather is warm, because the pesticide breaks down faster with temperature. Bill T Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 09:24:25 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pollinator@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Pesticide Use Comments: cc: smoser@ruralcom.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/19/99 6:32:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, smoser@ruralcom.net (Scott Moser) writes: > I have a question for the list about the use of pesticides in the > garden. My tomato plants are beginning to show signs of being eaten by > tomato worms. I was told Rotenone is safe to use on plants around bees, and > was wondering if this is true. I was also wondering if the bacteria dust > called Dipel is even safer to use since it targets worms like the tomato > worm and cabbage worms. Which would be safest and most effective. Any info > would be great. Thanks. You are to be commended. Many gardeners never give bees a thought. I can show you numerous gardens around here that have butter beans, squash, cucumbers and other blooming plants covered with Sevin dust. This not only kills bees, but it is illegal. Understanding the law is quite instructive. The label directions give the law for the particular pesticide. This is true for all pesticides. Insecticides are the ones of concern to us here. All insecticides that are toxic to bees have specific directions to protect the bees that come to any blossoms in the treatment area. Look for these directions under the title: Environmental Hazards. The bees are considered an environmental resource, and pesticide applicators must protect them. So first we need to determine if the law applies. Are bees visiting the tomato blossoms? If there are no blossoms yet, no bees will be there, and, as long as you don't contaminate other blossoms on other vegetables, you need not be concerned with bees. They will not be exposed, if they are not there. After blossoms form, are bees coming to them? Tomatoes are not highly attractive to bees. They often are entirely wind and motion pollinated (of course they yield better, if they are bee pollinated). You need to make some observations to see if bees are coming. If no bees are visiting, the label law does not apply and you can use the material. If bees are coming to blossoms within the spray area, then the bee-protection directions will apply. If there are no bee protection directions on the material, then you can be assured that it is not hazardous to bees, and you can go ahead and use it, even if bees are coming. There are two types of bee directions. One explains that the material is toxic to bees by direct contact. This is a material that works fast, but it does not have a residual effect. To use this material without hazard to bees, simply wait until late in the day, when no bees are coming to the flowers, and spray then. If bees are visiting, and the pesticide is applied, the adult field force of the hive can be killed off. Often with contact poisons, the bees never make it back to the hives. The hive has lost the adult portion of the population that is responsible for feeding it, and the hives begin a desperate race for survival, as they use up their feed resources to try to produce more field force before the nectar season is over. Hives that are badly damaged by non-residual, contact poisons don't usually die at once, but often die of starvation the following winter. The second type of bee direction label explains that the material is toxic to bees by direct contact and by residue. If you use this material while bees are not visiting the blossoms, there will still be residues the next day that can kill the bees. Most powered or dust forms of insecticides are extremely residual, and they become part of the pollen loads that bees carry back to the hive. So not only are adult bees killed, but young bees and brood can be fed this poisoned pollen and also die. Many times these residual poisons kill hives outright. The bee directions are extremely important for the protection of our pollinators. They are frequently ignored, but the applicator is responsibile and action is being taken more and more often, as the pollination crisis raises consciousness. One applicator on a farm crops paid a $1500 fine here in South Carolina recently, when he applied insecticide while bees were visiting a blooming crop (and did several thousand dollars worth of damage to my bees). It has become a shibboleth among extension agents: "Read and follow label directions." Oftentimes its just a way to protect their butts, because they say it when they have just finished giving pesticide applicators a way to AVOID following the directions ("Call your local beekeeper and make HIM protect the bees.") ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 16:05:20 -0400 Reply-To: info@beeworks.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Eliminating the need to find the queen In-Reply-To: <199906171454.KAA05518@listserv.albany.edu> On 17 Jun 99, at 14:32, Computer Software Solutions L wrote: > Great emphasis is placed in my area on finding queens. In fact there are > two kinds of beekeepers, those who can find queens at the drop of a hat > (or a veil!), and those who like myself have a major problem in finding > her. There has been lots written recently regarding finding queens. Another slick method, add a queen excluder, wait 5-6 days, the queen is where the eggs are, at least this way you can reduce the amount of frames to examin by 50%. Then use the take away method, where that box is removed some distance from the hive allowing mature bees to return to the main hive. I would think it should be relatively easy. Another method. Buy from us a small phial, marked 'experience', not overly expensive, but vital when dealing with bees. ***************************************** The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada.L3V 6H1. Phone (705)326 7171 Fax (705)325 3461 David Eyre, Owner e-mail http://www.beeworks.com This months special:- Labels **************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 18:58:33 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Eliminatimg the need to find the queen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Me too on moving the hive. If you can't find the queen the easiest thing is to let somebody else do it for you! Join your local beekeepers' association and (neighbours permitting) have an apiary meeting at your place and get the more experienced people to help with the demonstration of whatever feat you wish to perform. A dozen eyes are better than two. If you want to keep a low profile with your neighbours then find a "bee buddy" from your local association to help you. Your "street cred" in the local beekeeping world might diminish slightly but it will make somebody else feel good and your turn will come in due course when you have gained the knack and can help others. This afternoon I attended (with my bee buddy) an apiary meeting where the beekeeper, a retired carpenter, had a number of hives of various designs of his own. His home made gallon size smoker was lit but was hardly needed at all. We found queen cells in one hive so decided to make up a nuc to make good use of them. The lugs on the top bar on one home made frame were too long to fit so a saw was (palindrome) instantly produced from his kit to shorten them with the bees undisturbed on the frame! He has a top bar hive made from off cuts of timber (the edge bits of trees still with the bark on) and a couple of colonies in glass bottles - the large ones the milk runs through in dairies. He has a bee house with door, windows, pitched roof with mock chimney and in it a colony. We found the queen, young and flighty. Brian picked her up while Richard produced the marking pen. Brian fumbled, Richard grabbed her, she escaped again, I caught her and passed her to Richard but she took flight before the pen was applied. We hung around, not moving too much as we reassembled the hive. Soon workers were fanning to call her home. Richard walked around the rear of the group and found the queen on Lyn's back. This time she was trapped and marked successfully and reintroduced to the hive. Then back to the summer house for tea and cakes and bee talk. Can you think of a pleasanter way of spending a Sunday afternoon in summer? Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 18:09:06 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Christopher J. Kwon" Subject: Help, bees eating teak furniture. Comments: To: bee-l@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Help. I understand the many benefits of having bees in one's garden so I wasn't concerned when I first noticed their affinity for my teak garden furniture. Upon closer inspection, however, I discovered that they were chewing the surface off of the wood and leaving hundreds of small tracks. I tried spraying the wood with bee/hornet spray but this has not deterred them. I have no idea what type of bees they are but I know they are not carpenter bees. If anyone has any information I would be extremely interested and appreciative. Many thanks, Sara [cjkmd@mindspring.com] ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 16:05:12 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Stefan Stangaciu Subject: Re: all those drone brood MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Al Boehm wrote: >There has been a lot of conversation about drone brood and what to do >about it and also about drone brood laying queens. Hello dear Al and friends, For human and veterinary uses of drone brood you may check "The Apitherapy Reference Data Base" (www.sci.fi/~apither). Go to "Apilarnil" bibliographic pages. If you have more questions, please feel free to contact me at: apither@gmb.ro Best wishes, Stefan Stangaciu. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 07:49:01 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Edited post from Stefan Stangaciu In-Reply-To: <199906211142.HAA23094@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT This message was originally submitted by apither@GMB.RO to the BEE-L list at LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU. It was edited to remove excessive quotes of previously posted material. > ----------------- Original message (ID=2156A672) (51 lines)------------------- >> From: "Stefan Stangaciu" >> To: "Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology" >> Subject: Re: It has healing for mankind >> Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 23:02:53 +0200 >> >> Mohsen M Ramadan wrote: >> >> >(Are there) any healings from drones or queens. >> > Hi Mohsen and friends, > > Yes, there is healing from drones; see the modern "Apilarnil" and > the use of bee brood (which includes drone brood) since ancient times as > a rich proteins, enzymes and vitamins source for human and animal > beings. > > Why "healing" with a food? Because food may be also a drug, when > metabolic and other dis-balances are present in someone's body. > > Best wishes, > > Stefan Stangaciu. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 19:50:15 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "John K. Warsaw" Subject: Re: Pesticide Use MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If you're talking about the tomato hornworm, a thick green caterpillar type pest 2-3 inches long with a large (but harmless) spike on his back end, you can just squish them! My wife and I do this whenever we see signs of damage. We look for chewed leaves or fruit, and follow the trail of droppings to the critter. They are a bit hard to spot until you get the knack of it. We use the squish method on anywhere from 18-36 tomato plants, and have no trouble fighting off the hornworms. John ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Moser To: Sent: June 18, 1999 5:03 PM Subject: Pesticide Use > Greetings all, > I have a question for the list about the use of pesticides in the > garden. My tomato plants are beginning to show signs of being eaten by > tomato worms. I was told Rotenone is safe to use on plants around bees, and > was wondering if this is true. I was also wondering if the bacteria dust > called Dipel is even safer to use since it targets worms like the tomato > worm and cabbage worms. Which would be safest and most effective. Any info > would be great. Thanks. > Scott Moser > > > " I believe that beekeeping mirrors life. One must endure a few stings to > reach the final sweet reward." S. Moser ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 09:08:26 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tim Sterrett Subject: Finding the Queen Comments: To: BEE-L MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Some years ago, a beekeeping acquaintance told me that he had never seen a queen in his bee colonies and asked if I would show him a queen. As I stood in my shorts and tee shirt watching him suiting up, I said, "Where's your smoker?" "What's a smoker?" he replied. So I showed him how to smoke the bees and showed him the queens in his colonies. Most of us on this list have probably watched someone else open a colony of bees, and many of us have shown the inside of a colony to other people. We need to remember that some of the people on our Bee-L list have not had a chance to watch a hive being opened; some of them may live a long way from another beekeeper. In 1971, when I was shown how to open and inspect a hive, I was stung through my bluejeans (trousers), and I wondered what I had gotten myself into! I did not see the queen in my own colony (a captured swarm) until eleven months later. The note in my journal says: "April 23, Saw the Queen! Wasn't looking for her." Queen bees seem most obvious when I am not looking for them and are most difficult to find when I am looking for them. Tim -- Tim Sterrett sterrett@voicenet.com (southeastern) Pennsylvania, USA 40.0 N 75.5 W ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 09:29:16 PDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GREGOIRE@ENDOR.COM Subject: Re: Finding the Queen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hello Gang, A trick I learned at a local bee workshop for finding a queen in a situation where she will be captured and killed, as in requeening is this: Place a queen excluder on top of a brood chamber, with other supers in place on top of this, smoke the bees heavily in the entrance. The bees will escape the smoke by moving up to the supers. The queen will not be able to pass through the excluder and will be seen on the bottom side of it. Simply pick her off the excluder with your fingers. Grist Mill Apiary Ernie Gregoire Canaan, NH. USA ------------------------------------- 06/21/99 09:29:16 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 10:12:17 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pollinator@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Finding the Queen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/21/99 9:51:59 AM Eastern Daylight Time, GREGOIRE@endor.com writes: > A trick I learned at a local bee workshop for finding a queen > in a situation where she will be captured and killed, > as in requeening is this: > > Place a queen excluder on top of a brood chamber, with other supers > in place on top of this, smoke the bees heavily in the entrance. > > The bees will escape the smoke by moving up to the supers. > The queen will not be able to pass through the excluder and > will be seen on the bottom side of it. Simply pick her off > the excluder with your fingers. Can't say I'd NEVER do this, but I sure can't recommend it as a routine method. Do you realize how much stress this causes the bees? Bet they won't do any useful work for a week afterward. And some will actually be killed by this kind of smoking, especially brood. Queens aren't THAT hard to find. If you can't find her one time, close it up, and try later. The saddest thing is when you spend ten minutes looking over every frame, for what is obviously a nice queen, then spot a clump of bees on the bottom board, and realize that you rolled her when you pulled the first frame. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html The Pollination Home Page: http://www.pollinator.com Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 08:17:41 -0600 Reply-To: fltdeck1@ix.netcom.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Matthew Subject: Swarm cells found - remove old queen for swarm prevention? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All! Yesterday I waltzed through some of my older hives for inspection and found two with 2-3 swarm cells each. One of these had a queen which was still laying a great pattern. I found here wandering about - so I removed her. Will removing a queen (likely) stop a swarm from taking place? The Q-cells are capped and look 3-4 days from hatching. I've never read anything on simply removing the old queen once swarm cells are found, but I'm wondering why this approach shouldn't work? (to small to split) Matthew Westall - Castle Rock, CO ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 12:57:31 -0400 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Organization: ACB Dept., Univ of Michigan Subject: Re: Help, bees eating teak furniture. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit These are not bees, they are one of the many species of wasps and hornets that make paper nests. Bees have no interest in scraping wood. Even carpenter bees don't do this - they bore round holes in the wood for their brood. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 21:39:11 -0700 Reply-To: jslavett@worldnet.att.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jeffrey Lavett Subject: Where's Waldo? Comments: To: info@beeworks.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Eyre wrote: > Another method. Buy from us a small phial, marked 'experience', not > overly expensive, but vital when dealing with bees. A flock of geese, chased by a fox, scatters frantically in all directions. The fox fixes its attention on one goose and begins its chase, only to be distracted time and time again as another goose cuts across its path from one side or another. With luck and a sufficiently unfocused fox, each and every goose just might succeed in getting airborne in time to excape becoming dinner. Older, more experienced foxes learn to pick one goose and stick to that goose no matter how many other geese flap across their noses. Such a fox can oftentimes taste more than feathers. What are the mental tricks old beekeepers use to find queens? Could beekeepers have the opposite problem from the fox, that is, unfocusing the vision instead of tunneling it toward one more or less arbitrary goose. How much of queen finding is simply determination to keep staring at the side of a frame until she is spotted? What kinds of cues do the other bees give to the queen's location? There's got to be a better way than smoking an entire hive through an excluder. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 13:52:58 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Where's Waldo? In-Reply-To: <199906211717.NAA00987@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > What are the mental tricks old beekeepers use to find queens? Well, I'm not that old but here goes. First, learn where to expect to find the queen and where not. If you pull a frame that is solid honey or honey and pollen, put it back. It's doubtful you'll find the queen on such a frame. Likewise, it is unlikely you will find your queen on frames of capped brood. You are most likely to find your queen on frames that have work worthy of a queen. What is a queen's purpose in the hive? To LAY EGGS! You are most likely to find the queen upon frames where she can lay. If you pull a frame with newly laid eggs you're gettin' pretty darn close or you have in your hand the frame with the queen. Examine that frame closely! If you're in an area of the brood nest where there is no work for the queen to do, you don't need to examine closely there because the queen is most likely elsewhere. Now, this assumes that you have gotten into the brood nest with little disruption (little smoke, gently frame pulling, not a lot of banging around). If on the other hand you burst your way into the brood chamber like a bull in a china shop you are not likely to find the queen anyway. One of the videos from Brushy Mountain(?), I believe it was "Making Splits" demonstrated the presenter's (Steve Forrest?) skill at finding the queen. He could often times tell which frame held the queen by assessing bees' "between the frames" activity. He would make this assessment prior to pulling any frames at all. It was amazing to see him assess and pull the queen on his first attempt, three out of four times! So if you're trying to find the queen, do so with finess. Ease your way into the brood nest, minimize disruption, know when to examine and when to just put the frame back and move on. And realize that even then there are some times when the queen simply elude you. And obviously, a marked queen is easier to spot than one that is not marked. And yes, reading lots of "Where's Waldo" books DOES help ;) Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 13:17:52 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Van Roekel Subject: Re: Where's Waldo? Comments: To: Informed@iastate.edu.Discussion.of.Beekeeping.Issues.and.Bee.Biology In-Reply-To: <199906211725.NAA01526@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ALL, >What are the mental tricks old beekeepers use to find queens? How much of queen finding is simply determination to keep staring >at the side of a frame until she is spotted? What kinds of cues do the >other bees give to the queen's location? As with every other beekeeper I have ever met, I have trouble finding the queen at times also. As far as clues-- look on those frames that have fresh (or any age) eggs. Although she is not always there, it is a good place to start, since she has been there recently. She is infrequently found on the outer frames that contain only honey (I look there last). If the bees have not been disturbed too badly, there may be a "daisy" -- the queen in the center of a group of workers all of which are facing her. Examine the frames as well as you can, one by one. If you cannot find her, put everything back, and GIVE UP. It is seldom important enough for me to spent 45 minutes trying to find her. I understand that if one is requeening, the old queen must be found, and in that circumstance, I would do one of two things. After a few minutes of looking, I'd put the hive back together and take a walk for a few minutes ( or check other hives etc)come back to it after half an hour or so, and start all over again. If still unsuccessful, (and this is the second thing) I would put an excluder between the brood boxes and come back in a day or three. Look for eggs to determine which box of the brood chambers she is in, and begin the search. This time there would be only half the number of brood boxes to search. I know this requires an additional trip to the yard, time and distance would determine whether it is more worthwhile to continue to search on the first trip, or come back later. Most of the beekeepers I know have at one time or another just plain given up on finding the queen. It seems that more often than not the next time they look into the same hive (a few days or a couple weeks or more later), it is almost like she has a signal lamp flashing and she is spotted almost immediately upon opening the hive. Go figure. Those GOLDEN Italian queens are much easier to find( and prettier also). But even they can be elusive. Take any opportunities you can to help other beekeepers to find queens ( or assist in any other beework). This will help you develop an 'eye' for finding the queen ( although as I said before, there will be times when she is just nowhere to be found). Good luck!! Bill ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 23:43:48 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Swarm Cells found remove old queen for swarm prevention? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello All Matthew Westall wrote re the above. I am wondering if Matthew is looking at supersedure cells since they are so few in number, and if they were swarm cells, the swarm would normally be gone when the first queen cell was sealed. If they are supersedure cells then I would leave them alone as the bees have decided to replace the queen. The fact that the hive is too small to split seems to reinforce the possibility that you have a failing queen. You could also give one or two of the cells to nucs or apideas if you wished to raise some queens, given of course that you are happy with the queens in the hives concerned. I have read somewhere that supersedure queen cells (all other things being equal), turn into good queens. Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park, Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland Tel + 353 1 289 5269 Fax + 353 1 289 9940