From MAILER-DAEMON Fri Sep 17 12:52:19 1999 Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27331 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:52:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA11114 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:52:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199909171652.MAA11114@listserv.albany.edu> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:52:13 -0400 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8d)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG9906D" To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Content-Length: 237940 Lines: 5214 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 15:21:37 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: eparker Subject: New member Comments: To: Bee List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Everyone, My name is Ed Parker. I'm new to beekeeping, the list, and very glad to meet you all. I'll try to keep the mistakes in the apiary and the computer to a minimum. One of my major interests is chemical free "organic" honey. Some people have told me this can't be done and there is no organic honey produced in the United States. Others say it is possible. Am I just crazy or can it be done on a small scale. I am currently using essental oils in my 2 hives (I hope to increase the number to what my farm can support) and a wire mesh "floor" raised 1/2 inch above the bottom board for mite control. I plan to use "grease patties" and "tracking strips" also. Thanks for any input and a nice day to all. Ed Parker Bell, Florida ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 17:45:18 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: LJConnor@AOL.COM Subject: Press Release: Apiculture in the 21st Century Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU, jeremy@recordermail.demon.co.uk, chc2@ra.msstate.edu, kim@airoot.com, roghoopy@pilot.msu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit PRESS RELEASE "Apiculture in the 21st Century" is Published. Edited by Roger A. Hoopingarner and Lawrence J. Connor When Professor Roger A. Hoopingarner decided to retire from Michigan State University, he called a few of his friends and asked them to help him put on a symposium. His premise was simple: What do you think will be the most critical issues in 21st Century apiculture? Fortunately, Hoopingarner's friends include members of the world's leading bee research teams. "I tried to think of what were the most pressing subjects, as well as those that would be the most topical, for the first years of the next century, " Hoopingarner writes in the Preface of the book. "When I selected the topics, then I picked four section leaders to then select the four or five leaders in their fields to present research discussions for the symposium," Hoopingarner explained. Apiculture For the 21st Century reflects the written views of 15 such teams. They identify subjects critical to the growth of human knowledge about bees and bee culture as they impact upon the future success of apiculture. "The limit of numbers caused me to drop such topics as pollination even though this was a subject that was very probably closest to my main research interests—though not a subject that has pressing research needs," noted Hoopingarner. The result is more than a snapshot in time. It is both a carefully constructed review of current research efforts as well as a preview of the future. Following two decades of rapidly changing international beekeeping, these views will carry forward into the 21st century. This book is an essential addition to any serious apicultural library. Topics Covered: Honey bee breeding methods Honey bee defensive behavior Breeding bees in Africanized areas Foraging task organization Hormonal control of division of labor African versus European bees African bee genetics and physiology Genetic changes to feral bees Apis cerana biogeography Apis nigrocinta Asian bee mite biology Status of tracheal mites Problems with varroa chemotherapy Non-chemical varroa control Selecting resistance to varroa mites Wicwas Press announces the shipment of Apicuture for the 21st Century on June 21, 1999. The book is available in two editions; both contain 128 pages with 4 photographs and 42 illustrations and figures. The book includes an index, table of contents, list of speakers, and a list of conference participants. • The LIMITED COLLECTORS EDITION ($49.95 ISBN: 1-878075-10-1 Perfect bound) is bound with a classic linen cover. [Copies of this edition will be sent automatically to Symposium participants who pre-purchased a copy). • The GENERAL EDITION ($25.95 ISBN: 1-878075-11-X Perfect bound, 12 pt. varnished cover.) Check with your favorite bee-book reseller to see if they stock this Wicwas Press title, or order directly from the publisher: Wicwas Press, LLC, P.O. Box 817, Cheshire Connecticut 06410 USA. Phone 203 272 6574 or Fax 203 250 7575. Email address is ljconnor@aol.com. Add $2.95 per copy for shipping. Payment must be in U.S. Dollars by U.S. Check, money order, Visa or MasterCard (include number and expiry date). ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 05:24:51 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: GM rapeseed Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Allen and All: Allen wrote that on further investigation he found that indeed the hybrid canola WAS genetically modified, but he did not see much significance to the bees. He and others might be interested in this back article from the New Scientist: >Plants that have that have been genetically >engineered to ward off destructive insects could also >harm beneficial ones such as bees, shortening their >lives and impairing their ability to recognise flower >smells, researchers have found. > >Minh-Hà Pham-Delègue of the Laboratory of >Comparative Invertebrate Neurobiology in >Bures-sur-Yvette, France, and colleagues in Britain >and Belgium have investigated the effects of >engineered rapeseed on pollinating insects. The >rapeseed contains genes, found naturally in some >plants, that produce protease inhibitors--proteins that >interfere with enzymes in the intestinal tracts of >insects. >The idea is that beetles and other pests feeding on the >leaves and stalks of the engineered rapeseed should >develop a lethal case of indigestion. But bees would >also be exposed to the destructive proteins, through >nectar and pollen. "Rapeseed is particularly important >to bees," says Pham-Delègue. "The plants do not >depend strictly on bees to pollinate them, but it is the >first plant to bloom in large quantities in the spring. >Bees harvest a lot of nectar from them." > >The researchers found no protease inhibitors in the >pollen or nectar of the rapeseed. But they suspect that >because the proteins are expressed in the leaves and >stem of the plant throughout its life, they could be >present in the pollen and nectar at levels too low to be >detected. If so, they could eventually become >concentrated in honey stored back at the hive, which >the bees feed on. > >To find out how bees might be affected by high levels >of protease inhibitors in stored nectar, the researchers >exposed captive bees to sugar solutions containing up >to 100 times the concentration of proteins found in >the tissues of the engineered rapeseed. Bees fed on >this solution for 3 months died up to 15 days earlier >than those fed on normal sugar. After 15 days, the >bees had trouble learning to distinguish between the >smells of flowers. > >The researchers are now studying whether the toxic >proteins do build up in hives of bees feeding on the >concentrated sugar solutions and on the transgenic >plants themselves, and if so, how quickly they >accumulate. They point out that the engineered >rapeseed that eventually appears in farmers' fields >could secrete higher levels of protease inhibitors than >the plants they tested. Their work is part of a >three-year project begun last October to evaluate the >impact of transgenic plants on pollinating insects. > > From New Scientist, 16 August 1997 Regards, Stan ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 18:43:12 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: The use of Apistan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit At long last the swarming season has arrived here - about a month late. I bought some Apistan which is new on the market in the UK. It comes in packs of 10 strips. I need to use only 2 to treat a swarm. I want to keep the rest to treat established hives in the Autumn (Fall in US). Is this feasible? Will the remaining strips start losing their useful life once the packet is opened? How does one best keep opened packs of Apistan? Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 06:53:03 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Swarms issue with first sealed cell? I think not. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Tom Barrett wrote: > ... and if they were swarm cells, the swarm would normally be gone when > the first queen cell was sealed. Similar statements have been made in the recent past here on BEE-L, the comments went unchallanged and now seem to be accepted as "truth". Not wanting to start a rukus, but not willing to accept such a general blanket statement, I have to challange the assertion that swarms usually issue when the first queen cell is capped. I have not found this to be so. It's the height of swarm season here in upstate New York. Since I've produced more honey in the past few years than I am able to sell (remember, $1 per pound wholesale, $2 retail or I'll stockpile it) I'm less concerned with swarming than I have been in the past. I still check my hives for signs of impending swarms, but now when I find hives in imminent swarm condition I don't bother to attempt to keep the bees at home, rather, I split the hive into as many nucs as I am able to make up using the swarm cells at hand. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm breeding swarmy bees. I prefer to look at it as I'm propagating stock that builds up to large populations, I'm not concerned about that. My point is, many times I come across hives with sealed swarm cells (some with quite developed queens) which have not yet swarmed, the original queen is still present. I do not think one can make and accept such a general statement that a swarm usually issues as soon as the first swarm cell is sealed. I'll be happy to read where authors have written this statement to see if it's backed up by studies and/or experiments if anyone can provide references, but even then I'll stick to my assertion that it ain't necessarily so, at least not in my beeyards. Aaron Morris - thinking it ain't necessarily so! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 07:59:50 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: tomas mozer Subject: Re: Pesticide Use POSTED FOR INFORMATION/DISCUSSION PURPOSES ONLY: Beekeeper charges pesticide abuse, leaves Arkansas River Valley By Deborah Frazier Denver Rocky Mountain News Staff Writer Colorado's largest beekeeper has pulled his winged pollinators out of the state's melon-growing region after suspected pesticide abuse killed about 10 percent of his troops last month. The decision potentially could cut Rocky Ford melon production 25 percent. "I don't want to hurt the melon growers, but I'm not going to put them back unless we can get protection," said Lyle Johnston of Rocky Ford. He estimated the loss at $30,000 to $40,000. Johnston put 1,000 hives at six locations near Fowler, in southeast Colorado, locations he has used safely for 20 years. An aerial sprayer applied pesticides to a nearby alfalfa field without warning Johnston. The sprayers are supposed to notify beekeepers of their plans so the hives can be moved. A hive contains 50,000 to 60,000 bees. "The bees were upset and mean," said Johnston, who said winds carried the toxic chemicals to his hives. "The bees attack you. I knew it was pesticides from the dead bees on the ground." In the Arkansas River Valley near Rocky Ford, growers sell about $2.6 million of cantaloupes a year and pick up extra money from honeydews and watermelons. Melon pollen is sticky and wet and not easily carried by wind, so growers rely on bees to pollinate. Growers credit Johnston and his bees with a 25 percent boost in yield. Statewide, bees add an estimated $17 million a year to crops. Johnston hauls his bees all over Colorado, California and New Mexico. "If he doesn't come, it could hurt us," said Gene Hirakata of Hirakata Farms, a major melon producer in Rocky Ford. "He was the only beekeeper left. We used to use insects and ladybugs, but sprays have killed most of them." This isn't the first time Johnston has lost bees and threatened to pull out. Last year, he said, he lost about 700 hives near Lamar when pesticide from a neighboring cornfield drifted into the hives. The culprit was never found. In 1996, he claimed another loss because of pesticides, but state tests found no trace of chemicals in his hives or bees. Johnston, who has about 2,800 hives, isn't the only beekeeper to complain about bee deaths. He's one of only 30 remaining commercial bee operations in the state. There are about 100 hobbyist beekeepers. In 1990, Colorado had 55,000 bee colonies and produced 3.5 million pounds of honey. By 1998, there were only 27,000 colonies producing 1.9 million pounds of honey. Pesticides aren't the only problem, said Chuck Hudson, head of market statistics at the state agriculture department. Beekeepers also are battling a parasite mite infection that killed about one-third of the bees in 1997. "But we can't blame it all on the mite," Hudson said. The mites have been around for 11 years and usually weaken the bees but don't usually kill them. Most bees in Colorado have mite infections, researchers have found. One factor that isn't a problem is the long-feared invasion of aggressive Africanized honey bees, sometimes called killer bees. Colorado's winters have kept them out of the state, he said. Last year, the Colorado Department of Agriculture received 37 complaints from beekeepers about pesticide deaths; 14 resulted in investigations. Janet Jackson, a department spokeswoman, said penalties for errant aerial applicators included warning letters, canceled licenses, fines and injunctions. "We'll do anything we can to stop any kind of pesticide misapplication," Jackson said. In 1997, the state agriculture department investigated conditions in 1,259 hives statewide, sampling dead bees, plants in the bee yard, mite treatment practices and chemicals in the hive. Montana cross-checked the results. The results indicated a few instances of pesticide poisoning, but also one case of bee starvation, several cases of severe overuse of the antibiotic used to treat mites and one instance of locoweed poisoning. Johnston said the agriculture department has tried to blame beekeepers for the deaths. Beekeepers have now limited the department to testing only for pesticides. So this year, agriculture experts gathered samples from Johnston's hives, vegetation in the area and plants in the field. Dead bees were also collected. No results are available, but the deaths are under investigation, she said. That's not enough for Johnston. "If I had killed $30,000 worth of cattle, I'd be behind bars," Johnston said. "Why is it that the applicators can get away with it?" Johnston and the other Colorado beekeepers aren't alone. "Pesticides have been a problem nationwide for years," said Troy Fore, executive director of the American Beekeeping Federation. "Farmers have to control pests, but there are chemicals that are less harmful. "And, there are ways of applying pesticides that are less harmful." June 20, 1999 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 08:45:39 PDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GREGOIRE@ENDOR.COM Subject: Re: Finding the Queen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Dave Green wrote: <> Yes, there is a better way of course. The excluder method is for finding a queen when you MUST find the queen AND she is to be killed. Traveling to remote yards is such an occasion. There is no substitute for skill developed by repeated attempts at finding a queen. The excluder method was offered as one way to find a queen, and is not the best way to do it. It is simply one of many to choose from. Each beekeeper uses a variety of methods for various manipulations, and it is up to him to choose the best method for a given situation. Grist Mill Apiary Ernie Gregoire Canaan, NH. USA ------------------------------------- 06/22/99 08:45:40 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 08:51:40 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: The use of Apistan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris, I only have three hives and run into this problem all the time. I wrap the unused strips in Saran Wrap, then in a plastic bag. Mark the bag and put it in the freezer so it does not get mistaken for something else. It should keep for a year or more. My guess is a lot more, but I cannot prove it so err on the short side. Use Saran Wrap and not other brands of plastic wrap since it will not breath like other wraps. The colder you keep pesticides, the longer they last, since their half live is temperature dependent. Bill T Bath, ME How does one best keep opened packs of Apistan? > Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 09:26:25 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Thom Bradley Subject: Re: New member MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ed, Welcome. The difficulty is not necessarily in keeping non-food chemicals from your hives. (although that can be difficult enough.) Can you even determine what kind of chemicals are used on flowers and plants in a 2 mile radius of your colonies? (forage range.) I do believe there is a 'keeper in Arizona that produces organic honey, he is in a very isolated area. Thom Bradley Chesapeake, VA eparker wrote: > One of my major interests is chemical free "organic" honey. > Some people have told me this can't be done and there is no > organic honey produced in the United States. Others say > it is possible. Am I just crazy or can it be done on a small > scale. > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 07:19:16 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: eabell Subject: requeening with cells MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am looking for an easy way to do a lot of requeening with cells. Easy is the important word here. It would also be nice if the technique was successful. Somewhere in the back of my memory I remember reading something about inserting a cell above an excluder. She was to emerge and fly - returning to the normal bottom entrance. Any observations? It would be my hope that she would be accepted and often replace the old queen. Would this have more chance of success if the cell was below the excluder? Eric & Marnie Abell Box 87 Gibbons, AB T0A 1N0 Canada Phone/fax (780) 998 3143 eabell@compusmart.ab.ca ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 09:48:22 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pollinator@AOL.COM Subject: Re: New member MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/22/99 7:01:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time, eparker@atlantic.net writes: > One of my major interests is chemical free "organic" honey. > Some people have told me this can't be done and there is no > organic honey produced in the United States. Others say > it is possible. Am I just crazy or can it be done on a small > scale. > > I am currently using essental oils in my 2 hives (I hope to > increase the number to what my farm can support) and a > wire mesh "floor" raised 1/2 inch above the bottom board > for mite control. I plan to use "grease patties" and "tracking > strips" also. Put me down as skeptical, particularly in Florida. You can't control where the bees go, and they can range quite far. Furthermore you have area-wide applications, such as those for mosquitoes and medflies. You might get on some of the very wide river swamps in the north for tupelo, and they'd be relatively safe from spraying there, but are apt to starve at other times of the year. Remember though, that honey is sort of self-cleansing, because the bees process it internally. If a batch of nectar is contaminated with an insecticide, the bees that process it die, so that is not added to the total honey production. Of course it kills off your "livestock," but it keeps the honey pure. (This protective system is NOT in place for pollen, which is carried externally back to the hive, or pollen trap.) It's all a relative thing. We do the best we can, but must remember that pollutants and pesticides drift for hundreds of miles, and there will always be some tiny percentage of contamination, at least in the eastern USA. If I knew a honey were produced in the Sonoran desert of Arizona (yes, honey is produced there), I'd be less inclined to be skeptical about an organic label. But there are few such spots in the US. With honey, in most of the USA, at least, "organic" is a marketing technique, not a reality. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html The Pollination Home Page: http://www.pollinator.com Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 12:34:20 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Chewing furniture MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sara says "Upon closer inspection, however, I discovered that they were chewing the surface off of the wood and leaving hundreds of small tracks. I tried spraying the wood with bee/hornet spray but this has not deterred them." Sara, these are almost certainly what we call "Bald Faced Hornets". An inch to 1 1/2" long, black, white and yellow body, and a white face. Right? These are also called paper wasps and build the huge cylindrical nests you see in trees...most often after the leaves drop in the fall. They are literally gnawing strips of wood and the "tracks" you describe are where they have taken a thin layer! They masticate (chew) it, mix it with saliva, and use it to expand their nest. Good news...they are not going to do any real damage to your furniture; except if you are fussy and don't like the streaks where they have confiscated some surface teak. Bad news...they are very aggressive, can and do sting several times, and are easily provoked. You bee/hornet spray is not deterring them because it has a very short residual life. It kills quickly upon contact, but disintegrates very quickly. My experience is that 2-3 individuals are doing the damage. Kill them, by hitting them with spray, and your problems will be solved (at least until next year). But be careful, because they will attack! Lloyd Lloyd Spear Owner, Ross Rounds(tm). The finest in comb honey production. http://www.rossrounds.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 10:21:48 -0700 Reply-To: ryarnell@orednet.org Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard Yarnell Subject: Re: Chewing furniture >Sara says "Upon closer inspection, however, I discovered that they were >chewing the surface off of the wood and leaving hundreds of small tracks. >I tried spraying the wood with bee/hornet spray but this has not deterred >them." As Lloyd points out, "these are almost certainly what we call 'Bald Faced Hornets'." We treat our teak furniture every year with a light sanding and a fresh application of teak oil. That will discourage the hornets and extend the life of the furniture. If your patio furniture includes a table, no matter how short the effective life of the insecticde is supposed to be, I'd not risk spraying a surface which might come in contact with food or the hands which will put it in my mouth. -- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 13:42:39 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Edwards Organization: Hayden Bee Lab, USDA-ARS,Tucson, Arizona Subject: Re: Using water rather than smoke MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Lipscomb, Al" wrote: > After reading all the postings I decided to see what effect the water would > have on the hive. >>> > I filled a spray bottle > with cold water and ice chips so the water would also serve to cool the > beekeeper in the heat. > I worked two hives with this. >>> After I was done the hive seemed calm. Hi, all : (Catching up after several weeks investigating the wonders of the sciatic nerve.) We have had several encounters with water sprayers here in Tucson - - - Liz Coe brought back the technique from Germany after her year there - works really slick on queen nucs. - The late great Jim Smith of Yuma, Arizona used a small spray bottle on Africanized bees the first time he saw them in central America, and basically said " what's all the fuss about these bees ?" I believe his idea might have been to wash some of the pheromone out of the air and off of the bees. - Since then, the technique has only been used sporadically, once by a visiting Liz Coe during a "demo" of AHB for a large group of beekeepers. She added a small amount of a flower scent (I believe she said it was a homeopathic "remedy"), and the bees really behaved themselves !! (which, of course, "ruined" the AHB demo). It's my understanding that sprayers especially made for this purpose are available in Europe, but the 99 cent variety works fine here. I like the idea of the ice. How about a low volume mist system such as some outdoor restaurants and patios use here, to keep a entire small apiary at bay while it is being worked .... anybody in Texas want to try this ?? -- John ----------------------------------------------------------- John F. Edwards Biological Lab. Technician Carl Hayden Bee Research Center Tucson, Arizona 85719 http://gears.tucson.ars.ag.gov/home/edwards/index.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 16:52:52 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Partin Subject: Re: requeening with cells In-Reply-To: eabell 's message of Tue, 22 Jun 1999 07:19:16 -0700 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) I try and make a living beekeeping. We run about 500 to 1000 hives in Florida. Here we have 3 major flows a year. I have also always had a very hard time finding queens because I'm color blind. For this reason I have tried every way that I have read in order to find a queen. About 3 years ago we read about forced supercedure. This method has been great for us. We run all 6 5/8 supers and hive bodies and no excluders. These things has helped our operation more than any thing that we have done sInce we have been bee keeping. Forced supeercedure has all but stoped swarming, I have not seen a swarm in a yard of my bees in 3 years. This is one reason that I know that the method has worked. By not using excluders we have the freedom on placeing the cells up high in order to save` labor in putting them in. The lack of excluders helps keep the brood area open a great deal. The use of all 6 5/8 supers makes it real easy to exchange frams when the queen lays too high in the hive. We pay 1.50 for cells and we do it two times a year to ensure that we have a new queen each year. This is a lot cheeper than queens and a hell of a lot easier. BUD ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 20:59:08 +1200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Organization: Bay of Plenty Polytechnic Subject: Re: requeening with cells > I am looking for an easy way to do a lot of requeening with cells. Easy is Send a message to nolook@beekeeping.co.nz (don't just reply - that would come to this list...) You'll be sent a copy (about 10k) of a NZ Beekeeper magazine article I wrote some years ago, describing an effective method of requeening without looking for the queen. It won't suit everyone's operation, but it might give you some ideas for development... (\ Nick Wallingford {|||8- home nickw@beekeeping.co.nz (/ work nick.wallingford@boppoly.ac.nz NZ Beekeeping http://www.beekeeping.co.nz ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 19:37:52 -0300 Reply-To: eunice.wonnacott@pei.sympatico.ca Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Eunice Wonnacott Subject: Re: GM rapeseed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All: When Canola was origianlly modified from its parent, Rape, the modification was botanical, with no genetic material from other species. The modification was planned ( and succeeded) to produce a plant which was not toxic to live stock. The name was changed at that time, to ensure users would be sure which they were groowing, as they are indistinguishable from each other in the field. Canola growers presented a fine video to the Annual meeting of the Canadian Honey Council, meeting in Toronto, emphasizing the values to honey producers for both nectar and pollen. It was hoped that each would help the other in production of the desired product. Obviously bee pollination would result in a much greater set of seed, from which Canola Oil is produced. Genetic modification has occurred in many hybrids in the plant, and in the animal worlds. I believe there is some consternation at the idea of adding, for instance, human genes to plants. Of course pesticides imbedded in the plants look to me like a time bomb, without anyone knowing how long the fuse is!! Eunice ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 23:11:25 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dennis Murrell Subject: Easy Queen Cell Introduction MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I raise and distribute about 2500 queen cells per year. The cells are raised in JZ BZ plastic cups and ripe cells are inserted into JZ BZ top bar cell protectors. The cells and protectors are centered between frames in the top brood box below the first honey super. No queen excluders are used. The cells are inserted about the peak of our major honey flow in July, often when pulling honey. My experience indicates that an insignificant number cells fail to hatch, that about 15 percent of the old queens will survive and about 20 percent of the initial virgin queens that kill the old queen will not succeed. About half of those hives will have raised their own queen. Research has been done indicating a success rate of about 30 percent, but many factors are involved. I have experienced a range of rates from 40 percent to above 80 percent. Also, some varieties of bees consistently yield lower rates(25 percent) than others(80 percent). Best Wishes D. Murrell ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 07:21:14 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Edited submission from vdonahue@EARTHLINK.NET on The use of In-Reply-To: <199906231113.HAA11883@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT ----------------- Original message (ID=F86E0EF8) (31 lines) ------------------- > Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 00:18:29 -0400 > To: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu > From: Vivian Donahue > Subject: The use of Apistan Regarding the use of saran wrap to store Apistan, Vivian asks: > Bill, do you think that several ziplocked bags (one inside the other) would > be equivalent? > > Vivian ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 13:24:03 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Hugo Thone Organization: Alcatel Telecom Subject: Re: requeening with cells MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John Partin wrote: > . > . > Forced supeercedure has all but stoped swarming, I have not seen a > swarm in a yard of my bees in 3 years. This is one reason that I know > that the method has worked. By not using excluders we have the freedom > . > . What exactly is "Forced supercedure" ? tia Hugo -- Hugo Thone (VJ93) email htho@se.bel.alcatel.be Alcatel Telecom phone (32) 3 240 94 52 F. Wellesplein 1 fax (32) 3 240 99 49 B2018 - Antwerpen ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 08:03:25 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: eparker Subject: Organic standards MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello all, =20 Thanks for all the responses to my first note. I found the Florida = Organic Growers (FOG) standards for certification to be "nothing within = two miles/three kilometers that could contaminate the honey. These can = include towns, golf courses, garbage dumps or sanitary landfills and = flowering agricultural crops which have been sprayed with prohibited = substances". Most of the land around my apiary is planted in grasses for pasture. = But going two miles without finding a watermelon field will be tough in = most years. An inspector is coming out to check my vegetables within = the next few weeks. I will ask him then about my bees. If I get my bee's "certified" or not, I will try to run my hives = chemical free. Because beekeeping is a hobby I can afford to lose a few = hives or harvest no honey. I'm in a good position to experiment with = alternative methods of control to some of the problems we face. Never = know, I could stumble across a system that works AND is economically = feasible. I read about bees as much as possible. If anyone finds articals, = research papers etc. that they feel are interesting please let me know. = I always start a new project by reading what I can, then plowing into = the "hands on" full force. Thanks again. Regards ED Parker ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 08:24:34 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Edited submission from vdonahue@EARTHLINK.NET on The use of MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Bill, do you think that several ziplocked bags (one inside the other) would > > be equivalent? Probably. Just get the air out as much as possible. The reason I use Saran is from a Consumer Reports test that showed it was almost impermeable to air while all the other wraps were to some extent. There was a great ad a while back that had meat wrapped in Saran and in another brand. A tiger sniffed at both and tore up the other brand. End of commercial endorsement. Main thing is to keep the Apistan away from air, heat and light, the big three contributors to reduced efficacy. Bill T Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 08:25:44 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Partin Subject: Re: requeening with cells In-Reply-To: Hugo Thone 's message of Wed, 23 Jun 1999 13:24:03 +0200 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Mr. Murrell I have looked very hard for the research on this and have not been able to find any. I took the word of two of the most informed beekeepers that I know, Dave MISKA who produces about 1500 cells every other day in the spring in Florida and Jack Griffis in Mi. The % they quote is a lot higher than yours.. Would you please inform us of your source. If we use your 30% figure and we do it two times a year the % of take will still be not so bad. Do not foget you have a good % of natural supercedure in your hives if you do nothing. I do not think we can do do quite as well as finding the old queen and killing her but we would be close. The time and money saved is well worth it. Do not forget that I have not found a swarm in my yards in three years, I am sure that I have had some but not many. BUD ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 08:50:26 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Partin Subject: Re: requeening with cells In-Reply-To: Hugo Thone 's message of Wed, 23 Jun 1999 13:24:03 +0200 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Hugo I will try and tell you about forced supercedure. I hope Mr. Murrell will also he is a lot better with words than I, but here goes. As Mr. Murrell says we put a cell with a protector up in the honey supers during a honey flow. As you know during the flow bees are so busy putting up honey you can do things that you can not do when they are not making honey. They pay little attention to the new queen when she comes out. She then does what all new queens do and goes out and mates comes back to the hive. We think that what happens is when she comes back you will have two queens laying until the flow is over and then most of the time one of the queens makes it and we do not know what happens to the other queen. Most of the the time the new queen will be the one that makes it. I think one of the reasons the new queen does not make it is that during the flow the air is full of bees and she does not find her way back to the correct hive. We put our hives in large yards, 40 to 60 per yard, and if you had smaller yards your success rate would be a lot higher. BUD ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 08:34:00 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Gusrow@AOL.COM Subject: Bee stings and pain medication MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello fellow beekeepers. During my career in the military as a Security Police I received several injuries indicative of the job. Because of these injuries I have to take anti-inflammatory medications such as Motrin, Ibprofin, and large doses of tylonol. My problem is that in taking these medications I have very nasty reactions when I receive a bee sting. I am not willing or going to give up beekeeping. Is there anyone out there that can tell me a good over the counter pain medication that should not react with the stings that a beekeeper no matter how careful is going to receive during the routine work with bees? Thank You. Bob Landolfi, NM USAF RET. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 08:53:43 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Thom Bradley Subject: Re: Edited submission from vdonahue@EARTHLINK.NET on The use of MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Are we sure about air? Last I heard ws that air was not a solvent for the active chemical and it was contact only. Thom Bradley Chesapeake, VA Bill Truesdell wrote: > Probably. Just get the air out as much as possible. > > Main thing is to keep the Apistan away from air, heat and light, > the big three contributors to reduced efficacy. > Bill T > Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 07:41:39 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: eabell Subject: Re: Chewing furniture MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > We have a problem with these bald-faced hornets around the honey house some > summers. Our solution is to place a 15 kg (or any large) pail outside with a > little honey in the bottom. This attracts these hornets in quantity. > Occassionaly we will place a lid loosely on the pail and spray inside with > something like RAID. In a few minutes remove the lid and collect a new > batch. No need to clean out the pail between treatments. While I believe > the potential form stings is there, we have never had a stinging incident and > there have been lots flying around our heads while we load and unload. > > > My experience is that 2-3 individuals are doing the damage. Kill them, by > hitting them with spray, and your problems will be solved (at least until > next year). But be careful, because they will attack! > > Lloyd > Lloyd Spear Owner, Ross Rounds(tm). The finest in comb honey production. > http://www.rossrounds.com -- Eric & Marnie Abell Box 87 Gibbons, AB T0A 1N0 Canada Phone/fax (780) 998 3143 eabell@compusmart.ab.ca ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 10:37:38 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Edited post from Eric Abell on apistan storage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > ----------------- Original message (ID=3256DC33) (47 lines) ------------------- Regarding the storage of apistan: > I have been led to believe that the active ingredient(s) in Apistan will > migrate into plastic. Then a better storage container would be cardboard or > something like aluminum foil. > > Eric & Marnie Abell > Box 87 > Gibbons, AB T0A 1N0 > Canada > Phone/fax (780) 998 3143 > eabell@compusmart.ab.ca ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 11:00:13 -0400 Reply-To: String & Linda Monteith Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: String & Linda Monteith Subject: Re: Chewing furniture MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Our solution is to place a 15 kg (or any large) pail outside with a >> little honey in the bottom. This attracts these hornets in quantity. >> Occassionaly we will place a lid loosely on the pail and spray inside with >> something like RAID. In a few minutes remove the lid and collect a new >> batch. No need to clean out the pail between treatments Since I am an organic gardener/beekeeper, I use a similar method of luring pests into a SMALL bucket, snap the lid down tight when I capture some and stick it in the freezer. I dump the carcasses into the compost or feed to the chicken when dead. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 11:13:36 -0400 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Organization: ACB Dept., Univ of Michigan Subject: Nucs from preswarm colonies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aaron Morris wrote: > I still check my hives for signs of impending > swarms, but now when I find hives in imminent swarm condition I don't bother to > attempt to keep the bees at home, rather, I split the hive into as many nucs as > I am able to make up using the swarm cells at hand. I did this too this year with a good colony that started many swarm cells. I broke it down into 7 nucs, each with at least 1 or 2 swarm cells, plus a small split with the original queen and no swarm cells. I stacked the nucs on the original stand, since I operate my hives with multiple openings in all brood chambers anyway, and bees continued to go in and out into all the nucs. However, after two weeks when I examined the nucs, every one of them had torn down the swarm cells and were busily storing nectar in all available cells. I decided to reunite the "nucs" and restore the original colony. I was sort of surprised that they didn't raise a single queen from all those swarm cells. I wonder if I had taken the nucs away and distributed them in other yards if they would have done the same. Any thoughts, Aaron or anyone else? Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 11:51:59 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Haberl Organization: Hessische Landesanstalt fuer Tierzucht Subject: Re: Swarms issue with first sealed cell? I think not. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aaron Morris wrote: > ... many times I come across hives with sealed swarm cells > (some with quite developed queens) which have not yet swarmed, the original > queen is still present. I have made the same experience. And also in the other direction: Once an (overcrowded) nucleus colony (about 3000 workers) swarmed (it was my mistake to fill in too much bees at the beginning). I was not so much surprised that it happened but when. I examined the nucleus hive and found that the oldest worker larvae were just about 2 days old, so the queen has just been laying eggs for about 5 days. Additionally, I found 4 swarm cells with eggs in them! No older queen larvae nor pupae. I also was impressed by the low number of workers that remained in the nucleus hive, they were only about 100! Probably this remaining 'colony' would never have made it. (I got the swarm and put it back. But I took away half of the workers and the queen cells) Michael Haberl Germany, 51n 9w haberl@mailer.uni-marburg.de ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 11:49:54 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Nucs from preswarm colonies In-Reply-To: <199906231511.LAA15518@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > > ... split the hive into as many nucs as > > I am able to make up using the swarm cells at hand. > > ... I wonder if I had taken the nucs away and distributed them in other yards > if they would have done the same.... Dunno for sure but I suspect it's the leaving them in the same spot where you went wrong. I've had no problems with the swarm cells hatching, queens mating and start laying. I've even left the nucs in the same yard but different location. As always, your results may vary depending on time, location, season, sun spots and whether you're left handed! Sincerely, Aaron ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 11:59:29 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: harold37@EAGNET.COM Subject: Re: Bee stings and pain medication MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: Gusrow@AOL.COM To: BEE-L@listserv.albany.edu Date: Wednesday, June 23, 1999 9:40 AM Subject: Bee stings and pain medication Yes, I have the same problem and I use ecctron or escritption both are strong aspiren. Harold ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 12:30:28 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Edited submission from vdonahue@EARTHLINK.NET on The use of MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thom, I am looking at oxidation or reduction reactions that gradually degrade most pesticides. Oxygen is the oxidizer. I should have added water to the list of degraders. There was another post on apistan migrating to plastic. Could be. I do not know its chemistry. My guess is that it is the contact with the plastic that is the issue, since the wrap would be more likely to pull off the Apistan it comes in contact with, there-by degrading the strip, than any chemical migration. So, leave it in the box and wrap the box. Bill T Bath, ME Thom Bradley wrote: > > Are we sure about air? Last I heard ws that air was not a solvent for the active > chemical and it was contact only. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 11:44:14 -0500 Reply-To: lkrengel@mc.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Larry Krengel Subject: Re: Nucs from preswarm colonies Comments: To: tvf@umich.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I made two nucs with swarm cells this spring. I have done this before with reasonable success. I separated the nucs from the parent colony by 15-20 feet. This year two strikes - When I checked back, there was no queen and no queen cell in either. I don't know why they did not raise a queen. I have now given one of the colonies another queen cell and the other a frame with eggs from which to raise an emergency queen. I am about to check to see if they are queen right. Just when we think we know what we are doing, the bees fool us. Larry Krengel Marengo, IL USA > every one of them had torn down > the swarm cells and were busily storing nectar in all available cells. I was sort > of surprised > that they didn't raise a single queen from all those swarm cells. I wonder if I > had taken the nucs away and distributed them in other yards if they would have > done the same. Any thoughts, Aaron or anyone else? > > Ted Fischer > Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 10:30:07 PDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Greg Holley Subject: honey removal Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I am using bee-go for honey removal. I leave the bee-go felt board on top of the super for about 10 minutes. However, when I remove the super and take it into my honey house, I still have lots of bees in the super. Any suggestions or am I doing something wrong? Greg Holley holleygreg@hotmail.com _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 14:14:05 -0400 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Organization: ACB Dept., Univ of Michigan Subject: Re: honey removal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greg Holley wrote: > I am using bee-go for honey removal. I leave the bee-go felt board on top of > the super for about 10 minutes. However, when I remove the super and take > it into my honey house, I still have lots of bees in the super. Any > suggestions or am I doing something wrong? I would say 10 minutes is far too long. Three or four minutes should be long enough, in warm weather. Air temperature is definitely a factor - bee-go will not work well at all in cold weather. Also, burr and brace comb may impede free movement of bees to a lower super. They get jammed up and can't move down. I always use a bee blower with bee-go. I never depend upon it alone. (The blower then also removes some of the objectionable fumes as well.) Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 14:19:02 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Anglin Subject: Re: Edited post from Eric Abell on apistan storage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I asked this question a while back- sent it in to the question and answer column of one of the bee magazines. I was told that the manufacturer recommends keeping the extras in the original foil packet, and storing in a cool place. (Freezing is not necessary.) So I would surmise wrapping in foil is best, if the packet is severely damaged. Ellen Anglin ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 13:50:54 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Lipscomb, Al" Subject: Re: honey removal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >I am using bee-go for honey removal. I leave the bee-go felt board on top of >the super for about 10 minutes. However, when I remove the super and take >it into my honey house, I still have lots of bees in the super. Any >suggestions or am I doing something wrong? I have had the same problem, you may be waiting too long. The bees seem to move down for about three minutes and then some will start to move back up. This depends on a few factors such as temperature. Afterwards I use a small shop vac set to blow out the nozzle to clear any remaining bees. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 14:49:41 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: kenn.tuckey@AGRIC.GOV.AB.CA Subject: Swarm Issuing and other fallacies Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii 1. I agree with Aaron about the swarms not issuing when the queen cells are first capped. One of my most memorable beekeeping experiences was in a yard of bees about 40 years ago. A sideline beekeeper had been suffering from poor health and my friend and I went to do his bee work for him. The colonies were plugged right out and badly in need of supers. On several occasions as we opened the top of a colony the bees would be swarming out the entrance at the bottom. As we examined the combs in those colonies we would see virgin queens emerging as we held the frames. In the end there wasn't much we could effectively do but super up the hives and catch the swarms that stayed close by. 2. Bees in queenless colonies DO collect pollen - or at least they do in Alberta. Because of the frequency of assertions to the contrary here I was beginning to question my memory. I recall noticing many times that queenless colonies had a lot more FRESH pollen available than queen-right colonies. This spring when I went to unwrap my bees all of the live colonies seemed to be the same. Essentially the same traffic levels and the same proportion of bees gathering pollen. However two of the colonies were hopelessly queenless but the bees were quite industriously bring in pollen and storing it in what should have been the brood nest. Kenn ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 17:07:48 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tim Sterrett Subject: Re: honey removal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Greg Holley wrote: > > I am using bee-go for honey removal. I leave the bee-go felt board on > top of the super for about 10 minutes. However, when I remove the > super and take it into my honey house, I still have lots of bees in > the super. ***************** (These supers have no brood in them, right?) A puff of smoke into the top of the hive before the Bee-Go and board are set on top may help start the bees down. But (and I use benzaldehyde) I agree with Greg that the process is slower than I had thought it would be. Tim -- Tim Sterrett sterrett@voicenet.com (southeastern) Pennsylvania, USA 40.0 N 75.5 W ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 18:33:23 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Finding the queen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It is not usually THAT important to find the queen but on the odd occasion that it is essential she will know and will hide. You know this will happen as you have heard of Murphy's Law. Take along a spare brood box. Place it on a board a few feet away from the hive. Go through the hive. Take out frames one by one. Examine for the queen and place them in the spare box arranged in pairs with a gap between each pair. When you have half emptied the brood box use the space you have created to arrange the remaining frames in pairs within that box. Leave the boxes open to the sky. Take a break for a few minutes for the bees to sort themselves out. Watch for clues to the whereabouts of the queen such as fanning. The queen will shy away from the light and, if she is there, will be in the dark between two frames. Take out the frames from the box in pairs and part them as if opening a book and usually she will then be found fairly easily. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 18:42:04 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Scott Mitchell Subject: Gloucester Beekeepers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All I seem to be in a situation to move to Gloucester Va, this will be during mid September, Im real excited about the move. I am interested in locating Beekeepers in this area. Can anyone help? Thanks, Scott Mitchell smitch@totalaccess.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 17:45:51 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dennis Murrell Subject: requeening with cells MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Bud and everyone, I have checked for the original source for the reference to the 30% acceptance noted by the researchers. I clipped an article over a decade ago and could not locate it. However, I did find another reference in the ABC and XYZ of Bee Culture on page 421 citing a Canadian study by T. Szabo. In that study about 77% of the colonies remained queen right. Of these, about 13% were successful with the introduced cell, 53% retained their own queen and 24% raised a new queen. I am not familiar with the details of this study. My own experience indicates that about 85% of the colonies will initially accept the cell and rear the virgin queen. About 65% of the hives will get a virgin successfully mated. Our yards are large and setup for easy access. Like you, I think much of this additional loss is due to drifting and could be reduced. But with the heat of summer, the bee suit and at times it seems a zillion hives to work fast, easy hive access outweighs the drifting loss. About 10% will raise a new queen. So about 75% of the hives will get a new queen one way or the other, 15% will retain the old queen and 10% will need additional work. I hope this helps clarify my original post. Best Wishes D. Murrell ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 20:44:25 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pollinator@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Nucs from preswarm colonies Comments: To: tvf@umich.edu, BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 99-06-23 11:46:08 EDT, you write: << I stacked the nucs on the original stand, since I operate my hives with multiple openings in all brood chambers anyway, and bees continued to go in and out into all the nucs. However, after two weeks when I examined the nucs, every one of them had torn down the swarm cells and were busily storing nectar in all available cells. I decided to reunite the "nucs" and restore the original colony. I was sort of surprised that they didn't raise a single queen from all those swarm cells. >> Young queens are a lot dumber than workers about drifting, and drifting, for a young queen, can be fatal. We always spread out our queen nucs, and try to leave lots of landmarks to help them locate their own. Also, was there a spell of bad weather, just about the time they were to mate? We had a week of cold rain in late spring, and I lost almost every nuc that would have been mating during that time. Dave Green SC USA The Pollination Home Page http://www.pollinator.com The Pollination Scene http://members.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop on the Internet (honey & beeswax candles) http://members.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 21:08:41 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: What happened...? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A strange thing happened recently. I wanted to requeen a colony so I squished the old queen. The MARKED queen arrived but because of alternating rain and extremely HOT weather, I didn't put the new queen in for 5 or 6 days. A week after that, I went to look at the colony and there was a lot of eggs, but I found an UNMARKED queen. I doubt the bees could have taken off the marking material so soon. I also found two opened swarm cells that I must have missed in an earlier inspection. There must have been a swarm, but did the new queen leave with the swarm? Did the colony swarm before I introduced the new queen and did the virgin swarm queen kill the introduced queen? I captured this queen and ordered another queen and installed it today but I am wondering what happened. Any Ideas? Ian Watson ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 21:28:01 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jean-Francois Lariviere Subject: Re: Bee stings and pain medication MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob, First of all, any pain medication MUST NOT be part a NSAID (non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug). This is the cause of your reaction. Secondly, have you tried BVT (bee venom therapy) on the areas of your body that are in pain? I would suspect there is some traumatic arthritis already settle in those areas. Try contacting the AAS (American Apitherapy Society, secy. is Linda Day lday@in-touch.net) for someone in your area that can show you how to do this. It's worked for me. Always Bee Healthy, Jean-Francois Lariviere NYC USA http://hometown.aol.com/ BeeHealthy/beehive.htm In a message dated 6/23/99 9:44:59 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Gusrow@AOL.COM writes: << Because of these injuries I have to take anti-inflammatory medications such as Motrin, Ibprofin, and large doses of tylonol. My problem is that in taking these medications I have very nasty reactions when I receive a bee sting. I am not willing or going to give up beekeeping. >> ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 22:58:29 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: RASpiek@AOL.COM Subject: Re: honey removal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Has anyone tried a hand held hair dryier with the heat element disconnected to blow bees from frames? I intend to try this . Richard ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 08:04:53 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: P-O Gustafsson Subject: Re: requeening with cells MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dennis Murrell wrote: > My own experience indicates that about 85% of the colonies will initially > accept the cell and rear the virgin queen. About 65% of the hives will > get a virgin successfully mated...... > ...... About 10% will raise a new queen. So about 75% of the > hives will get a new queen one way or the other, 15% will retain the old > queen and 10% will need additional work. This is very similar to my experience. I believe we have the same kind of short explosive summer development when the bees get so engaged in honey during the main flow that we can do this operation without disturbing them much. I'm on lat 60 north, and will be going out with loads of cells in a couple of weeks.. -- Regards P-O Gustafsson, Sweden beeman@algonet.se http://www.algonet.se/~beeman/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 07:08:42 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Stefan Stangaciu Subject: Re: Bee stings and pain medication MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob Landolfi (Gusrow@AOL.COM) wrote: > Because of these >injuries I have to take anti-inflammatory medications such as Motrin, >Ibprofin, and large doses of tylonol. (snip) > Is there anyone out there that can >tell me a good over the counter pain medication that should not react with >the stings that a beekeeper no matter how careful is going to receive during >the routine work with bees? Hello dear Bob and Bee-L friends, You should try propolis (raw, tablets, tincture, spray etc.). Propolis is two times better than aspirin (according to an Oxford study) so it has very good anti-inflammatory properties + it is very good antiallergic (because of several factors, including the presence in it of cvercetin) + it has anti-pain activity too. You may find it directly in your hives... References on propolis properties please find in our Apitherapy Reference Data Base ( www.sci.fi/~apither ) Good luck and stay healthy!!! Yours, Stefan Stangaciu, MD, LAcup. PS 1-2% of the population may present a local reaction (allergy) to propolis; so, test it first (raw + as tincture) in very small amounts, on your fore-arm, before you will use it internally. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 07:34:28 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Stefan Stangaciu Subject: Apimondia, Sept. 99. "Apitherapy for beekeepers" workshop. Comments: cc: Apither-L MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Bee-L friends from all over the world! As you hopefully know, in September 16-th (Thursday night, between 19-22 h.), during the Apimondia Congress (Vancouver, Canada), it will be organized the first ever held "Apitherapy for beekeepers" Workshop. My intention (as main organizer) is to select excellent speakers, already specialized in the practical and theoretical aspects of apitherapy, and to create (in the workshop's room ideally) a small, but high qualitative, temporary exhibition of apitherapics. Could you please give me any suggestions or direct help? Do you know of any Apitherapy related Companies in your area? I would be happy to invite them to this workshop. Please advise and... help!!! Any idea will be welcome!!! Friendly yours, Stefan Stangaciu (MD, LAcup.) President of the German Apitherapy Society Webmaster and Board Member of the American Apitherapy Society Apimondia's Apitherapy Data Base Coordinator apither@gmb.ro drstangaciu@apitherapy.com www.gmb.ro/personal/apither www.sci.fi/~apither www.apitherapy.org www.apitherapy.org/aas www.apitherapy.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 15:16:51 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Justin O Schmidt Subject: Re: [Fwd: Help, bees eating teak furniture.] In-Reply-To: <376FFD26.B24B8D5E@tucson.ars.ag.gov> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII These are almost certainly yellowjackets, not bees. They are scraping food fibers off the teak to make paper for constructing their nests. Justin ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 07:02:43 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: The use of Apistan Comments: cc: max.watkins@vita.demon.co.uk In-Reply-To: <199906240925.FAA06219@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > This message was originally submitted by max.watkins@VITA.DEMON.CO.UK to the > BEE-L list at LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU. It was edited to remove excessive quotes of > previously posted material. > > ----------------- Original message (ID=D45A4AA2) (67 lines) ------------------- > From: "Max Watkins" > To: "Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology" > Subject: RE: The use of Apistan > Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 10:22:30 +0100 > If you're treating a swarm (equivalent of a small broodless colony, you need > only use 1 APISTAN strip, hung through the centre of the cluster; use 2 > strips if it's a large swarm. > > For storage of APISTAN, keep it away from direct sunlight, preferably at or > around room temperature, in its original packaging. The product is stable > for 3 years from the date of manufacture, as stated on the pouch label. No > additional special storage requirements, other than given on the label. > > The open pouch does not need to be re-sealed to protect the shelf life of > the remaining strips. They will be stable until the expiry date shown on the > side of the pouch. However, it is advisable to either wrap the open pouch in > something or else put it into a closeable bag, to avoid any possibility of > the strips being contaminated by other substances. > > > Regards, > > > Max > > > Dr Max Watkins > > Vita (Europe) Limited Tel 44 (0) 1256 473177 > Brook House, Alenton Link, Fax 44 (0) 1256 473179 > Basingstoke, Hampshire RG21 7RD, UK ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 08:13:02 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: RASpiek@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Bee stings and pain medication MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I also have had neck injuries/surgeries and take 1800mg ibupropen or relafen daily. no reaction from stings, usually don't get stung but when the bees are pmsing and I get 4 or 5 stings(after that I put on long pants and shirt) I do not need any medication for 3 or 4 days. It is qutie amazing. Richard ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 08:35:45 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pollinator@AOL.COM Subject: Re: What happened...? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/24/99 6:54:59 AM Eastern Daylight Time, realtor@NIAGARA.COM writes: > A week after that, I went to look at the colony > and there was a lot of eggs, but I found an > UNMARKED queen. I doubt the bees could > have taken off the marking material so soon. > I also found two opened swarm cells that I must > have missed in an earlier inspection. There must > have been a swarm, but did the new queen leave > with the swarm? Did the colony swarm before I > introduced the new queen and did the virgin swarm > queen kill the introduced queen? I captured this > queen and ordered another queen and installed it > today but I am wondering what happened. When they swarm, they are broodless for awhile, so I would guess that they did not swarm. Did you notice if the population was down? More likely they were in process of supercedure. The old queen and the young queen may both lay for awhile, so there may be no interruption in the brood cycle. If they already had their own young queen, they wouldn't accept the one you gave them. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html The Pollination Home Page: http://www.pollinator.com Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 07:37:44 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Blane White Subject: Re: The use of Apistan Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Hi Everyone, We had of apistan strips here at the Department that were used for varroa mite survey in 1988 and the following years. I found an opened packet in the warehouse over 5 years later and had the pesticide lab here test them they still had well over 8% fluvalinate. The warehouse is heated but not cooled so the temperatures do get fairly warm at times but the fluvalinate did not seem to break down very quickly at all. It also does not vaporize at normal temperatures. So if you store unused apistan strips in their orginal package wrapped in a plastic bag in a cool place like a basement away from other pesticides and children they should be fine. blane ****************************************** Blane White MN Dept of Agriculture blane.white@state.mn.us ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 08:10:54 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Blane White Subject: "organic" honey Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Hi Everyone, I recently got a request for some information on mite treatments alternatives from an organic certification organization. I asked if they certify honey and was told yes so I asked how. They will certify honey as "organic" based on laboratory testing shows no pesticide residues in the honey. So they will certify honey produced here in the US as organic based on lab test results not the absence of pesticide use in the foraging range of the bees. FWIW blane ****************************************** Blane White MN Dept of Agriculture blane.white@state.mn.us ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 07:11:15 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Zee Byrd Subject: Re: The use of Apistan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii In regards to the use of Apistan, I have the following questions. Does anyone know what the half-life of Apistan is? If a beekeeper decided to keep one super on a "weaker" hive at the time Apistan was in place (the super being for the bees' winter consumption), when would it be safe to allow the comb in the frames in that super to again be used for honey for human consumption (if this is extractable comb)? This question came up at a recent beekeeper's association meeting and no one knew the answer. Zee zeebyrd@yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 11:06:56 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: BEE-L: approval required (E90309DB) In-Reply-To: <199906241409.KAA09292@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Zee asks: > Does anyone know what the half-life of Apistan is? Nowhere on the label of Apistan will you find a reference for half life. The label clearly states that honey supers are not to be on the hive while the bees are producing honey for human consumption. OR honey exposed to Apistan is NOT to be exposed to human taste buds. PERIOD. There is no room to wiggle on this one. No half-lives, no mention of personal consumption vs honey for sale, no mention of exposing honey to sunlight, no mention of fluvalinate not disolving in water only disolving in wax, the label states honey exposed to Apistan is not fit for human consumption, EVER! Aaron Morris - wondering if they really mean it though! YES, THEY MEAN IT!!!!!!! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 14:17:42 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: What happened...? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > When they swarm, they are broodless for awhile, so I would guess that they > did not swarm. Did you notice if the population was down? More likely they > were in process of supercedure. The old queen and the young queen may both > lay for awhile, so there may be no interruption in the brood cycle. > Yes, I forgot to mention that the population was down quite a bit from before. I think there were some supercedure cells there when I squished the old queen, but I removed them at that time. But there were the two empty cells at the bottom of the frame which I assume were swarm cells. When I went to see if the new queen was accepted, it was a week after she was introduced and 2 weeks after I made the colony queenless. It was then that I noticed only eggs, no larvae and this unmarked queen. Does this extra info help? Thanks, Ian Watson ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 14:59:52 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pollinator@AOL.COM Subject: Re: "organic" honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 99-06-24 09:26:41 EDT, Blane.White@STATE.MN.US (Blane White) wrote: << They will certify honey as "organic" based on laboratory testing shows no pesticide residues in the honey. So they will certify honey produced here in the US as organic based on lab test results not the absence of pesticide use in the foraging range of the bees. >> That might or might not be good news, Blaine. The critical point: How much does the testing cost? IOW, is the cost in line with the realistic value added by such certification? Dave Green SC USA The Pollination Home Page http://www.pollinator.com The Pollination Scene http://members.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop on the Internet (honey & beeswax candles) http://members.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:05:02 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: bill bartlett Subject: Splitting Hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, I too make splits from my hives when I see hives that I like and they are preparing to swarm. Just removing the frames with Queen cells and placing them in hive bodies or nuc boxes. Also remove a frame or frames with honey and pollen. I have pretty much done the same for several years and I find that my success rate is around 50 to 60%. This year I had 100% ( 9 ). Even a blind beekeeper gets a jar of honey once in awhile. Billy Bee ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:54:42 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Walter Boyce Subject: lamarckii queens Is anyone using Apis mellifera lamarckii queens in a commercial or hobbyist setting? Is there a source for purchasing or obtaining lamarckii queens? Walter Boyce wmboyce@ucdavis.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 20:08:02 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: SoVerNet Verification (on garnet.sover.net) sover.net from tempa18.bf.sover.net [207.136.202.18] 207.136.202.18 Thu, 24 Jun 1999 20:06:50 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jeffrey R. Hills" Subject: Re: Using water rather than smoke MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I used sprayed water with just a touch of vinegar this evening on my Southern Vermont Bees and was delighted with how wonderfully calm they were! I smoked first from the outside at the bottom and top entrances and then used just the water for the "inside" work. This was not chilled water. Very pleased with this so far. Jeff Hills ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 21:13:25 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Chris Wave Subject: Re: Bee stings and pain medication MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have used homeopathy ex for my stings. I am an RN who has developed great fear of even minor meds! My treatment for honey bee stings is a product called Sting Stop. Its a gel available at any good healthfood store. I then take 4 tablets of Apis Mell. every 1/2 hour until pain subsides. I've yet to get past two doses. I also apply baking soda paste to the site if the victim is a child. I have had great success with this method. Chris Wave Woodstock, IL USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:55:06 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Shari A. Stocker" Subject: Bee Stings - a question Comments: To: bee-l@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I live in Central PA where a young child died from a bacterial = infection. The bacteria, according to the Department of Environmental Protection (PA division) came from a bee = sting. I know that bees can carry bacteria on their body but can a sting cause = the bacterial infection. We, in the area, believe that the bacteria came from the biosolid = dumping that occurred at that time in the reclaiming of the strip mines = in that area. Does anyone have any information on this subject or could you lead me to a source that might. Any help you could give would be appreciated. Margaret R Stockley shari@vicon.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 22:09:37 -0700 Reply-To: jslavett@worldnet.att.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Hasta B. Shasta" Subject: Re: Bee Stings - a question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My own reaction to stings is five minutes of pain followed by two or three days of swollen tissue and persistent itching. I've scratched at these areas, sometimes so much as to wear away small patches of skin. Considering the generally filthy habits of young children, it could have been this child's fingernails that innoculated the bacteria into the area of the sting. The worst I've ever seen at the actual site of a beesting is a pinhead sized wound which may weep slightly for a day or two and then dry to a pale yellow crust or scab. I've never seen any kind of inflammation of the tissues adjacent to the point of injection, merely the general swelling due to the venom. Compared to a host of insect species, bees lead a pretty clean life; they don't get down in the dirt much, don't burrow through or eat manure or carrion. From the standpoint of infection, I would worry much more about bites from wasps or horseflies. Shari A. Stocker wrote: > > I live in Central PA where a young child died from a bacterial = > infection. The bacteria, according to the > Department of Environmental Protection (PA division) came from a bee = > sting. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 23:11:04 -0600 Reply-To: fltdeck1@ix.netcom.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Matthew Subject: Swarm with bad bee-directions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all! Here's something a few of you will find interesting: Today I went to pull out a feral hive which made a new home in the side of a condominium building. On the way the manager called and said "Come quick! A swarm just arrived close to the other hive". Both the swarm and the feral 'hive' were found on the same side of the building, same corner, same height, same paint color, same air-duct, etc., - but they were different buildings, one next to the other. More unusual, when the feral 'hive' was cracked open all that could be found was a dead hive and old comb from years ago. The only bees coming and going were obviously scouts (20-30 of them) doing dances and making appearances at the entrance. No live bees were clustered inside. Either a swarm was on it's way to that old hive or the one I took found it's way to the wrong building by bad bee-directions. Coincidence? Matthew Westall // Earthling Bees, Inc. >8(())))- "Take me to your feeder" \\ Castle Rock, CO - USA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 10:32:25 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Eliminating finding the queen Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello All We had a very useful exchange of stratagems on avoiding the need to find the queen, and I thank all who assisted in developing the idea. I have been thinking some more on this. Many beekeepers recognise that having a marked queen is better than not, and so do I. I am going to try out an approach, which if it works, will assist me to mark the queen by cutting down the number of frames to be searched to just one. Suppose I create an artificial swarm using the 'Queen Isolator' so that the parent hive ends up with the queen (unmarked), one frame of brood and the rest empty frames (standard procedure). This hive will be some distance from its old stand to reduce the number of bees in the hive. I then close up this hive and wait say half an hour or so. Will not the queen be on the frame of brood?. If this works it should give me confidence in finding the queen on a limited search and then as confidence builds, who knows that maybe next year I can dispense with this procedure and search the entire hive. Any thoughts please? Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park, Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland Tel + 353 1 289 5269 Fax + 353 1 289 9940 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 15:46:25 +1100 Reply-To: brownie@eck.net.au Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Anne Brown Organization: Brown's of 'Snake Hill' Subject: Re: Finding the queen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am grateful for all the suggestions on finding the queen, particularly the idea of setting up a nuc close by to lure some of the others away. When we are preparing our display case for school classes we need to include the queen. Its amazing how many times that little lady can disappear, even when she is marked! Picture this - it is 7 am and we have a 100 km drive in front of us to the school who has booked us to tell their little darlings all about the wonders of honey bees. We are all packed ready to go, all we have to do is get two frames of bees including the queen. Fine, nice frames showing sealed & unsealed brood, pollen, sealed & unsealed honey, lots of bees but where the hell is the queen. So far, touch wood, she has always turned up but the day is going to come when our patience runs out or we actually decide to file for divorce right there in the middle of a paddock full of bee hives! As it is winter here in south eastern Australia at the moment we do not have any school bookings but come the spring we will be up and running again. I can't wait to try this new method of queen-finding (and I am going to try the water spray idea too). Thank you all, Anne Brown Browns Busy Bees ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:01:10 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Partin Subject: Re: requeening with cells In-Reply-To: Dennis Murrell 's message of Wed, 23 Jun 1999 17:45:51 -0600 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) I have been thinking of useing Cordovan queen cells ever other year in order to easily check for a take or not. I sure do like the queens I'm useing now but I might try a few. If they work out it sure would take the quess work out of requeening by forced supercedure. BUD ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 22:33:19 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Scott Moser Subject: Insect Repellant MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings all, Summer is definitely here in the St. Louis area! So are the ticks and chiggers. We had a very mild winter, so there are lots of ticks around. Two of my outyards have a terrible tick infestation. I didn't used to worry much about ticks, but now that Lyme disease is rather prevalent around here, I am concerned. I do follow all the suggestions for ticks. Light clothes, head to toe inspection afterwards, etc. Question is, would it be safe to use some type of repellent on my clothes? Any suggestions for a good one to use? Would it be a problem for the bees? My bees are important, but from what I hear, Lyme disease is not one of the more fun diseases to get! Any suggestions out there. Are there any products that could be used in the yards to keep the tick numbers down. I do frequently use the weed eater to keep vegetation down, but this doesn't help a whole lot. Thanks for the help folks! Scott Moser " I believe that beekeeping mirrors life. One must endure a few stings to reach the final sweet reward." S. Moser ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 08:00:33 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pollinator@AOL.COM Subject: Forwarded request for swarm help MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subj: bee help From: bmcintyre@marcus-online.net (Brent McIntyre) I am looking for help with a swarm that i have been adopted by. I am in Eau Claire,Wi 54701 Brent McIntyre. Do you know any groups or people in my area? (715) area code. Thanks Brent ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 08:00:42 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jean-Francois Lariviere Subject: Re: Bee stings and pain medication MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You bring up a very good point - that the beestings and the pain disappearing (no need for medication) are associated experiences. Yes, this is science and has been documented and studied and currently being studied. Even the FDA has approved of a Phase I study to identify the working components of bee venom and the relief associated with them. The American Apitherapy Society (even myself) would be glad to speak/communicate offline with you on what you need to do to work with bee venom for aches & pains (generally attributed to some type of arthritis). As for the itching associated with the stings -- give it time. We have found that after 60 stings, you don't itch any more. You may still swell up, but that's a normal reaction. Jean-Francois Lariviere http://hometown.aol.com/BeeHealthy/beehive.htm NYC NY << I also have had neck injuries/surgeries and take 1800mg ibupropen or relafen daily. no reaction from stings, usually don't get stung but when the bees are pmsing and I get 4 or 5 stings(after that I put on long pants and shirt) I do not need any medication for 3 or 4 days. It is qutie amazing. >> ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 07:37:26 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Van Roekel Subject: Re: Insect Repellant In-Reply-To: <199906251114.HAA25592@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Question is, would it be safe to >use some type of repellent on my clothes? Any suggestions for a good one to >use? Would it be a problem for the bees? I have only heard HORROR stories when it comes to using insect repellents around honey bees. One was published in one of the journals several years back. The other was a beekeeper who had hives near horses. He and the property owner had no problems until she sprayed the horses/barn to keep flies off the horses. The bees then drove the horse half crazy. The beekeeper went out, moved the bees, and helped destroy the ones still hanging around the horse. And I think this occurred in the late evening just before dusk (the bees didn't go home when they should have). If you decide to use an insect repellent, please let us know how it worked. As far as ticks, they seem to be much thicker around here this year also. (However we did just move to an acreage last fall, and have spent more time outside this spring) I have heard that having a few Guinea fowl running around may cut down the tick population. Good luck, and let us know with any ideas that you find effective. Bill ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 08:15:35 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: RASpiek@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Eliminating finding the queen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I wonder if I am the only confused beginer watching this exchange of ideas. If you take a frame of brood for a nuc, then say that you have only 1 frame to search through to find the queen, confuses me. How do you know that you took the queen with that frame to the nuc and if you did, why not find her then? I have missed something. please help. Richard P.S. I know this is an informed bee list. I am trying. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 07:54:18 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jean-Francois Lariviere Subject: Re: Bee Stings - a question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This does not make sense to me and I have never heard of infection getting out of hand. Sure, there are occasions when a sting sight develops a pustile. I find it very unlikely that a beesting would cause an infection. Perhaps the itching that followed caused the child to scratch open a wound and that wound was infected by outside bacteria. Jean-Francois Lariviere http://hometown.aol.com/BeeHealthy/beehive.htm NYC << I know that bees can carry bacteria on their body but can a sting cause = the bacterial infection. >> ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:54:43 -0400 Reply-To: String & Linda Monteith Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: String & Linda Monteith Subject: Re: Insect Repellant MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Are there any products that could be used in the >yards to keep the tick numbers down. While living in a VERY rural setting in Kentucky, I was also worried about Lyme disease. (My brother was infected with it in Wisconsin). An old farmer told me not to worry since we had plenty of wild birds on our property (turkey, pheasants, quail, etc.) He said if I was really concerned I could buy a couple guinea hens. We never did that, but we got a flock of chickens and let them free range. In the two years we were there, we spent MANY hours walking our woods and camping in the clearing in the woods. We only had two ticks in two years!! The kids spent almost all day in the woods in the summer and they never stayed on the trails. We had more problems with poison ivy than ticks. Is it possible to encourage wild birds in your bee yard? We never had a problem with anything trying to get our bees there, but lost many chickens to fox, owl, weasel, & coyote. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 10:54:59 -0300 Reply-To: eunice.wonnacott@pei.sympatico.ca Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Eunice Wonnacott Subject: Re: Insect Repellant MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bill Van Roekel wrote: Your story aboout insect repellents, bees and horses reminds me of an experience I had several years ago. My hives were located in an area where I also had a small vegetable garden and myrid black flies. I used Deep Woods Off on myself to protect from the flies, and was driven away by attacking bees. (I am allergic to bee sting). My neighbor , who taught chemistry at our local University, helped me tosolve this one!. apparently the active ingredient in the repellant closely parallels the chemistry in bee venom, so that the bees got the message to sting. My personal solution to the flies was suitable clothing, veils, etc, and no sprays. EDW ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 10:08:05 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Elizabeth Petofi Subject: Re: Insect Repellant MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bill Van Roekel wrote: > " I have heard that having a few Guinea fowl running around may cut > down the tick population. " > Yes, but they will cut down on the bee population, too. Guineas love > bees!!!! Elizabeth Petofi, bees in Orange County, VA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:00:16 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Musashi Subject: Re: Eliminating finding the queen Hello beekeeping friends, One persistent recurring thought/question I now have on this subject is, "If you saw a group of 25 bees with a queen among them, would you recognize which one was the queen." Would some of the people who can't find queens even recognize a queen if they saw one? Bad eyesight can be one problem that is very difficult to overcome, but barring that, if you had a box of mixed screws and bolts, could you sort them into two separate piles? Recognizing patterns and differences can be difficult for some people. In my opinion, you have to have first seen a queen, watched her walk and act, observe the physical differences between her and the rest of the bees, then come back to it and try again. In my personal experience, having a one frame observation hive in my livingroom as a conversation piece for two years (with an unmarked queen each year) was a very helpful item. I often looked for the queen as an "exercise" just to see if I could find her. Sometimes I found her right away and sometimes I could not find her at all and I had to give up. Finally, though, it got so I could find her almost every time. You have to remember that my one frame observation hive had glass on both sides and I could both sides of the frame. I would often go back to it later with a flashlight and try again before going to bed. It was a challenge and fun. That experience probably greatly assisted my ability to quickly find a queen because it was something that I had (unintentionally, but as a fun game) practiced doing over and over and over again with my observation hive. I recommend it as a worthwhile thing to do (keep an observation hive for fun, education, and practical experience). Best wishes to all in increasing our beekeeping skills and having fun while doing it. Layne Westover College Station, Texas p.s. can you pick out the queen when you get one in a queen cage in the mail with 4 or 5 attendant workers? There's another good exercise for beginners. Sometimes it's not easy (in the beginning) to tell which one is the queen, especially when they are active. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 10:18:53 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Frank Bresee Subject: Re: Insect Repellant MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit << Are there any products that could be used in the yards to keep the tick numbers down. >> If you live in the country, I would strongly recommend purchasing some guinea fowl. Although they can be quite noisy, they do a wonderful job of keeping the tick population down and will forage a very wide area. This is the time of year that guineas can be purchased from most farm supply stores. I would suggest that you build some sort of wire fencing around your hive(s). As the guineas are such voracious bug eaters, they don't know a good bug from a bad bug and can stand at a hive entrance for a snack until the stinging gets to bee too much. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 11:08:52 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garry Frey Subject: Re: Insect Repellant MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All I have finally found where i can add to the list and not just receive, i have contended with deerticks for years in my forays afeild and have found 2 things effective that i find have no affect on my bees, first and best deterrent for ticks is a cheap pair of rubber hip boots (keyword RUBBER) the ticks seem to be unable to cling to it and will not be able to travel up to the vital areas.....the other method effective in areas of sshort grasses or low foliage is the good fleea&tick collars for dogs tape your pantleg closed at the ankle and wear one collar on each leg at the top of the calf. Hope this woks as good for you as it does for me Garry ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 17:03:06 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Max Watkins Subject: Re: The use of Apistan with supers In-Reply-To: <199906241502.LAA09920@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Tau-fluvalinate, the active ingredient in APISTAN is hydrophobic meaning that it will not easily pass into water-soluble materials such as honey. APISTAN can be used at any time of year (but depending on country-specific labelling legislation) as the product is regarded as "safe"; the European Commission classified it under Annex II, NO MAXIMUM RESIDUE LIMIT NECESSARY due to the low toxicological and residue profile in hive products. However, the active is more attracted to fats, including beeswax but unless your strips are really embedded in the wax, there should not be any appreciable residue transfer to the wax. What residues have been found in wax in studies over the past 13 years are pretty low (average below 1 ppm) which in toxicological language is negligible. Tau-fluvalinate will not transfer from wax to honey unless forced - requiring huge contamination of the wax beforehand. Once in the wax, the molecule is stable and will not degrade over one season. The wax residue, if indeed measurable, should not affect honey subsequently in the same frame. This is a brood frame, and chances are you won't extract honey for human consumption anyway. When that brood frame is eventually melted down for cleaning/recycling, some of the tau-fluvalinate (if there ARE residues) will be destroyed and otherwise the concentration, what little there may be, will be dissipated. The APISTAN is placed between brood frames. Supers should not be in contact with strips. Very occasionally there may be trace residues in cappings on supers following APISTAN treatment but this is not common. Needless to say, any traces that may be found will be tiny and not at all of toxicological importance. If you're still concerned, use the APISTAN outside the honeyflows. Regards, Max Dr Max Watkins Vita (Europe) Limited Tel 44 (0) 1256 473177 Brook House, Alençon Link, Fax 44 (0) 1256 473179 Basingstoke, Hampshire RG21 7RD, UK ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:34:31 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter@AOL.COM Subject: Re: The use of Apistan with supers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In rendering brood combs down to recover the wax what effect does the heat used to melt the combs have on residual fluvalinate.? I would assume that a solar wax melter would destroy the most of it but am curious as to the effect of heat alone. Also has anyone with the equipment to detect residues tested foundation available from the larger suppliers? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:42:24 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Geoff Kipps-Bolton Subject: Colony on tree branch Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" I collected a large swarm from high up in a tree yesterday. It had been there some months and had built a very impressive number of combs. I sawed off the branch and trimmed off all the twigs then put the whole thing in an empty hive. It just fits in a brood body with one super. I suspended the branch inside to minimise the collapse although I don't know how effective it is since the whole thing is breaking away from the branch. Does anyone have any ideas how I can deal with it? I have put another brood box with some drawn combs on top in the hope that they might move up, but I'm not optimistic. I wondered about making a top bar hive, breaking up the wild combs and wiring them onto bars. Any suggestions gratefully received. Geoff Kipps-Bolton ffff,0000,0000Numquam desperare! Sed scire cum desistere verberare equum mortuum! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 17:50:06 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Insect Repellant Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello All I was wondering if it were possible to use some form of repellent to prevent or reduce the number of stings on bare hands. A product which would not harm the bees is obviously essential. I have seen mention of linseed oil, oil of wintergreen, vinegar and bleach. The only one I tried once was a weak solution of bleach, but I must say that I was not happy with this kind of product, apart from the fact that I do not think it made any difference. Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park, Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland Tel + 353 1 289 5269 Fax + 353 1 289 9940 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 13:15:51 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Gothoney@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Colony on tree branch MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the sooner you abandon the branch the better! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:21:50 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Warren Otto Subject: Re: Insect Repellant MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This may have been mentioned already but I just heavily smoke any exposed skin (i.e. legs, arms, hands, etc) b/f handling the bees. Stinging is a rare event, although it does occur. Warren Otto ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 10:31:44 -0700 Reply-To: mcmanus Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: mcmanus Subject: Re: Insect Repellant MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All Tom mentioned if there was a product that would help with bee stings when working with bare hands. I have tried several things with nature in mind. Yesterday I was working with a baseball cap to keep bees out of my hair, a short sleeve shirt, Levies and no gloves. I first used some grass that I rubbed on my open skin. Then I exhaled my breath in a direction away from the hive and breathed low and slow. Lifted the cover slowly, sprayed sugar water as I went in. This worked quite well. I did get stung once from a hive that was a little nasty. I stepped away, rubbed more grass on, making sure that I covered the sting spot and went back to work, I showed no fear and I'm not that brave, but wanted to see if it could be done. I say yes. The more we can stay away from chemicals, the better off we will be. Joe McManus Loving You Honey Farms Bremerton, WA. USA mcmanus@budsters.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:58:15 -0500 Reply-To: lithar@midwest.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: AL Subject: Re: Colony on tree branch MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Geoff Kipps-Bolton wrote: > > I collected a large swarm from high up in a tree yesterday. It had been there some months and had built a very impressive number of combs. I sawed off the branch and trimmed off all the twigs then put the whole thing in an empty hive. It just fits in a brood body with one super. I suspended the branch inside to minimise the collapse although I don't know how effective it is since the whole thing is breaking away from the branch. > > Does anyone have any ideas how I can deal with it? I have put another brood box with some drawn combs on top in the hope that they might move up, but I'm not optimistic. I wondered about making a top bar hive, breaking up the wild combs > > and wiring them onto bars. > > Any suggestions gratefully received. > > Geoff Kipps-Bolton You can tie them into empty frames using a thin twine. The bees will eventually attach the comb to the frames, chew the twine up and remove it. Actually the method involves wrapping the twine around the frame with the comb positioned in the middle. The twine just cradles the comb until the bees can get it attached. I can't remember what kind of twine is recommended - someone once claimed to have used cotton which created a lot of lint when the bees chewed it up. AL ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 14:27:57 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Lipscomb, Al" Subject: Re: Insect Repellant MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >I was wondering if it were possible to use some form of repellent to prevent >or reduce the number of stings on bare hands. A product which would not harm >the bees is obviously essential. I like to use laytex gloves (medical kind). To me they provide the following: 1) Bees do not touch skin. Not as much chance of a sting. 2) Hands do not touch hive chemicals. 3) Hands do not touch anything that could have AFB spores or EFB bacteria. Same goes with any other hive problem. Changing gloves between brood chamber visits reduces chances of me taking something to next hive. 4) Hands do not pick up hive or queen scent. When handling queens this could reduce chances of balling queen. 5) Gives good sense of touch. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 14:33:19 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Lipscomb, Al" Subject: Re: Colony on tree branch MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >Does anyone have any ideas how I can deal with it? I have put another brood box with some drawn >combs on top in the hope that they might move up, but I'm not optimistic. I wondered about >making a top bar hive, breaking up the wild combs Put a hive body under the box and shake or drive the bees down. You need to make sure the queen gets to the bottom box. Then put an excluder on and put the box with the wild comb up top. Feed well so the bees will draw out any foundation. After a week make sure the queen is down below. Wait a few more weeks until all brood in the wild comb is hatched. Use bee-go to empty the upper box and remove the comb. If you get lucky you will have some nice wild comb filled with honey to show off. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 20:21:07 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Harry Goudie Subject: Re: New member MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dave Green Hemingway wrote:- > > With honey, in most of the USA, at least, "organic" is a marketing >technique, not a reality. > I have noticed this concept quite often of late and find it difficult to believe. Surely it is possible to produce organic honey in Alaska for example or has this too been contaminated. I would like to know what is the opinion of the American members of this list on this subject. Are you worried that you can't produce organic honey or do you think the the situation is acceptable? What is the American opinion on organic food? Would you pay more to eat organic food? Is there a general revulsion against pesticide use or is it acceptable provided no bees are killed? Harry ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 01:10:10 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Carol Malcolm Subject: Re: Bee Stings - a question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I live in Central PA where a young child died from a bacterial = >infection. The bacteria, according to the >Department of Environmental Protection (PA division) came from a bee = >sting. I am a beekeeper but have a background in biology with a lot of college background in bacteriology, etc. With that in mind, I would suggest that the situation might be more accurately described as one in which the "open wound" caused when the bee stinger broke through the skin, open the person to the invasion of bacteria from all sources. This includes bacteria that normally reside on the skin, as well as those which are in the air, or on bees. When the skin is broken, the bodies barrier against bacteria is breeched. Like when you get a mosquito bite (or fireant bite here in TX) and scratch until you have an open wound. All matter of organisms are free to invade. Normally, ones immune system comes to the rescue. Reddness and swelling are the normal reaction as the body send white blood cells to the area. Some of these cells are successful at "eating" or engulfing bacteria and the "injury" is resolved. In other cases, staph, strep, tetanus bacteria are not eliminated at the wound site and an infection ensues. I once neglected a cut on my foot, until the reddness developed into streaks on my leg. Had I not received prompt medical care, I could have developed a severe infection. If the causitive agent (bacteria) had been one that was severe, I might have had a worse situation. In summary, "bacteria from a bee" is an inaccurate over generalization. In my opinion. Carol Carol K. Malcolm dewsnap@worldnet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 01:29:12 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Carol Malcolm Subject: Re: Colony on tree branch Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I collected a large swarm from high up in a tree yesterday. It had been there some months and had built a very impressive number of combs. I sawed off the branch and trimmed off all the twigs then put the whole thing in an empty hive. It just fits in a brood body with one super. I suspended the branch inside to minimise the collapse although I don't know how effective it is since the whole thing is breaking away from the branch. > > >Does anyone have any ideas how I can deal with it? Here in Austin, I have spent 6 evening a week responding to swarm calls and collecting swarms. Some are actually established hives, and if I find comb with brood, this is what I do. I collect the brood comb in a box and handle in carefully. When I get back home, I pull out the rubberbands and empty frames. I cut and past the salvaged brood comb and rubberband it into empty frames --sometimes mediums and then hang the frames in the hive where I dump the salvaged bees. Their comb seems to be an incentive to "stay"...I have had swarms leave! I watch for burr comb, and pull those transfer frames when the brood has hatched. Yes, it's lotsa work. But, in my mind the "wild swarms" hold the key to mite resistance! I want all the swarms I can get since I have some assurance that they've lived in the wild and not been medicated! Would appreciate any imput on my tactics. I'd like to think that I haven't spent all those hours up ladders and under sheds for just a small handfull of bees. Carol Carol K. Malcolm dewsnap@worldnet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 01:35:53 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Carol Malcolm Subject: Re: Insect Repellant Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Hello All > >I was wondering if it were possible to use some form of repellent to prevent >or reduce the number of stings on bare hands. A product which would not harm >the bees is obviously essential. Tom, When I approach strange bees, especially on a hive removal I usually get stung. Or at least, my bee suit does. The sting leaves that old alarm pheremone, and to remove it I grab the most fragrant plant I can find. Once it was a juniper bush branch, if I am prepared I carry a few stalks of my rosemary bush. This is what I'm thinking.... bees respond to chemical "scents" in the air...what can I put in the air to confuse them? As a kid in the Rocky Mountains of the US, I know that "pine trees smell like Xmas", so I just hit those bees with a smell that says "I'm just a tree here...leave me bee [ 8-) ]. It works pretty well, but your skin suffers from being rubbed with branches. Just my opinion, but try it. Carol Carol K. Malcolm dewsnap@worldnet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 22:09:25 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: denise garoutte Subject: Re: Bee Stings - a question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think the infection is a strain of staph which is found everywhere. The bee sting may have just provided open skin for the bacteria to enter through. The best thing I've tried for a bee sting is a poltice. My whole hand used to swell from a sting until I tried a couple of different poltice's. One was a +ACI-drawing salve+ACI- a thick black salve from the drug store. The other was my mother's home remedy of dry bar soap shavings and a sprinkle of sugar with a couple drops of water on a bandaide. Both of these remedies +ACI-draw+ACI- the poison out by means of osmosis, I think. Anyway, it works. I've wondered why they don't try this for more serious infections. -+AD4APg- I live in Central PA where a young child died from a bacterial +AD0- +AD4APg- infection. The bacteria, according to the +AD4APg- Department of Environmental Protection (PA division) came from a bee +AD0- +AD4APg- sting. +AD4- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 13:21:44 +0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Durk Ellison Subject: Presentation Comments: To: Bee-List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, I'm looking for a beekeeper that would be willing to do a presentation in the fall to a 5 grade class in the Alum Rock School District, San Jose, California. USA. If you'd be interested please contact me at e-mail : Durk.Ellison@beenet.pp.sci.fi Thank you Regards from: Durk Ellison Vantaa, Finland BeeNet : 240:346/300.8 e-mail : Durk.Ellison@beenet.pp.sci.fi Packet : oh2zas @ oh2rbt.#hki.fin.eu ICQ# : 1954595 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 17:56:16 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Dr. Gerald L Barbor" Subject: Re: Insect Repellant MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Scott, There is an animal dip available called Permethrin (I buy it as a 3.5% solution) which I have used as a repellant on clothes while traveling in Africa. I got the idea from a bird watcher who gave me an article out of a birder magazine. Seens the military tested it and found that a 0.5% sloution sprayed on clothes was effective for up to a year, even through a number of army launderings. If you are interested I will try to find the article and send you more particulars. Jerry in PA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 17:14:44 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pollinator@AOL.COM Subject: Attitudes about Pesticides (was: Re: New member) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/25/99 3:35:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, harry@LUICHARTWOOLLENS.FREESERVE.CO.UK writes: > > With honey, in most of the USA, at least, "organic" is a marketing > >technique, not a reality. > > > I have noticed this concept quite often of late and find it difficult to > believe. Surely it is possible to produce organic honey in Alaska for > example or has this too been contaminated. Er... is Alaska part of the USA? Seriously, I would accord Alaska the same credibility of organic claims that I would the Sonoran Desert. But it's a tough place to keep bees. I know there is an small but active beekeeping industry on the panhandle. I doubt there is much in the rest of the territor.....er....state. I would like to know what is the > opinion of the American members of this list on this subject. Are you > worried that you can't produce organic honey or do you think the the > situation is acceptable? What is the American opinion on organic food? > Would you pay more to eat organic food? Is there a general revulsion > against pesticide use or is it acceptable provided no bees are killed? You find a small contingent, particularly around the universities that wants, and is willing to pay for, organic food. Otherwise I can't say there is a general revulsion against pesticide use, and bee kills are quite acceptible to the majority, because they have little concept of their role in their food supply. The average person's picture of the beekeeper is of someone's (rather strange) elderly uncle "messing around" with his three or four hives, so there is no general concept of the destruction of a specialized famer's livelihood by pesticide poisoning. The kind of beekeeper in the image is pretty much gone today. Today's typical beekeeper is either a full time commercial (family) migratory operation, or an upper middle class, middle aged, suburbanite who took up beekeeping to help out his garden. Our rural gardens around here are generally chalky looking (Sevin dust) about this time of year, so you don't have a lot of concern, even when people grow their own food. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html The Pollination Home Page: http://www.pollinator.com Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 16:04:09 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Musashi Subject: Re: New member Harry writes: "What is the American opinion on organic food? Would you pay more to eat organic food? Is there a general revulsion against pesticide use or is it acceptable provided no bees are killed?" You asked for opinions, so I'll give you (and the rest of the list) a few of mine on this subject. I have opinions, experience, and hearsay knowledge on the subject. When in high school, I did a term paper on Rachel Carson's "Silent Spring" for my English class (that was in the 60's). I've studied "Biological Control" and subscribed to "Organic Farming and Gardening", I compost, and I don't use chemical pesticides or fertilizers in my gardening. I have considered myself an "organic gardener" for many many years. Since I've also studied chemistry and toxicology and read extensively, I may have a little different attitude toward it than some (I like to think I have a "more knowledgeable" attitude), but here it is: (don't forget--everything you read from now on is only opinions) People who like/prefer organically produced foods are fearful of chemical contamination of foods, which contamination might lead to cancer and other illnesses. Maybe you could call it "chemophobia". They also believe in the "balance of nature" and that mother nature will take care of problems for us if we will only let her. They believe that chemicals (both poisons and fertilizers) pollute the environment and poison life on it. They've heard of lake eutrophication caused by fertilizers. They've read of illnesses caused by pesticides and other chemicals. These things happen. They care very much about their health and don't want to do anything to jeopardize it. They believe that poisons normally kill beneficial as well as harmful organisms. They worry about the long term effects of these materials in the environment and in the food chain. They are therefore willing to pay more for foods that they believe are free or these unwanted chemicals. Depending on how much of a "purist" the "organic" person is, they may accept materials of biological origin as being "natural" or "organic" and acceptable to use for, say, insect control. For example, diatomaceous earth dust or sabadilla dust might be considered all right, while malathion or diazinon would not be. They probably prefer to get their vitamins (at least some people do) from the wholesome foods they eat rather than from synthetically produced vitamin pills. To some people it is a "religion" or at least it has the same strength in their lives as a religion. Some people can be entirely fanatical about it. Medicines are another area that is related to this philosophy (don't use them). Now on to how it relates to beekeeping: this philosophy would rule out using terramycin (antibiotics) or Apistan (chemical/pesticide) to treat bee diseases or parasites. There would also, of course, be concern about bees foraging in areas treated by chemicals (particularly pesticides) where the chemicals could be picked up by the bees either in pollen, nectar, or directly on their bodies by being sprayed. There is also some concern of chemical residues being in or on the materials used for hive construction. The "working reality" of whether the honey, for example, is "organic" or not should ultimately be determined by what chemical residues are found in it. Chemicals and pollutants may be found everywhere in the environment, whether on the highest mountain top, the North Pole, or in the remotest wilderness or desert, but if none of these things were applied within the foraging area of the bees (with a clean buffer zone for good measure), then I personally would consider the honey "organically produced" and would feel good about using it and that it is "as clean as can be". In reality, nothing is perfectly pure, but also in reality, some things are cleaner or purer than others. That is obvious. A great part of it is a matter of perception and belief, and as Dave Green says "is used as a marketing tool." IMHO This is my opinion and perception. People will act in accordance with their belief systems. Lots of people will pay a premium price for food they believe is cleaner or purer. I, for one, will not. That's why I do my own gardening and keep my own bees, and, yes, there is a general revulsion among many people toward toxic chemicals, and for good reason. Now that I've said all that, I will also say that fluvalinate is one of the least toxic chemicals around, and I don't worry much about it being at all dangerous. Now let me add before I end this long epistle (sorry about that), and repeat, we act based on our beliefs, and subsequently (hopefully) learn from our experiences. Good beekeeping. Layne Westover College Station, Texas ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 13:25:58 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Geoff Kipps-Bolton Subject: Colony in tree - update Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" I was absolutely positive that the queen wouldn't leave the nest! Unfortunately she didn't know this! I went to clear out my van this morning. When I opened the back doors to let the few remaining bees out one dropped on the floor at my feet. Yes, it was the queen! Before I could grab her she flew into the blue yonder. I wonder whether this might be a blessing in disguise. I suppose I can now safely put a brood box with a caged queen underneath with an excluder and hopefully they will sort them selves out. Geoff Kipps-Bolton ffff,0000,0000Numquam desperare! Sed scire cum desistere verberare equum mortuum! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 15:57:43 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lance Almond Subject: Re: Insect Repellant MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit greetings all Tom I have been using linseed oil for about three weeks with excellant acceptance from my bees-very few stings, a good side benefit my wife likes my lotion soft touch. Last week I removed a swarm from a second story house that had been there some months, judging from the amount comb from the fire break to the ceiling studs, I was able to get the queen, colony and some brood comb, but many of the worker bees hide behind the fiberglass showerstall that even the queen in my swarmbox could not draw out, a few days later another bee-rescurer came out and listened with his stethascope and confirmed that they were all worker bees in that space, how could he hear that??? As a first year beekeeper will i ever develop the level of skill this god-like person must have? bewildered, lance ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 13:38:24 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Insect Repellant MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just got back from the Dr and my son was diagnosed with Lyme desease. Caught it only three days ago so can be cured with antibiotics, but it is a bad desease if not treated. Origionally thought it was ringworm but there was feaver and flue like symptoms, so we went to the Dr. The ticks are carried on both deer and mice. They are nearly invisible when on the mice and on you. My son thought he had been bitten by a spider. No trace of a tick. Best guess is he got it camping. The best preventative is vaccination. My wife was vaccinated because she goes out painting in areas where deer are plentiful. In the Northeast, 60-80 percent of the ticks that can carry lyme disease are infected. Bill T Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 17:22:13 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Cakefight9@AOL.COM Subject: Question on Pesticide Application TIming & Bee Mortality MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello! I just finished reading Carl Johansen's POLLINATOR PROTECTION HANDBOOK. In it he says that many states have regulations stating the time of day that certain pesticides can be applied "as to prevent hazards to bee pollinators." Does anyone know how I could go about finding information on application regulations/guidelines in NY, WA, FL, and CA? Any clues on who to call? I am also wondering if these regulations are in place to protect bees in general or just managed hives. If it was primarily for managed hives, I'd expect there to be more regulations in the states that rely heavily on crop pollination. Thanks in adavance for any input!! I am new at locating this type of informtaion, and the book was a bit grey about who exactly to call. It could be different in each state- which would further complicate things!!! Lori Quillen ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 21:52:55 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Pollution Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello All This post is in response to Layne Westover. I fear that the days of organic honey or organic anything else as heretofore understood are long gone. We must now accept IMO that we are all living on a polluted planet and the best that we can say is that any product we produce or eat is at least as polluted as what may be termed 'The Average Planet Pollution Level'. This IMHO is the average pollution which we will tend to meet on the planet. It may be less in some places and more in others, but in this context, the concept of anything being 'organic' is impossible, unless we re define organic as possessing a level of pollution lower than the 'Average Planet Pollution Level' And how do we define this? Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park, Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland Tel + 353 1 289 5269 Fax + 353 1 289 9940 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 12:36:03 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Partin Subject: Re: Insect Repellant In-Reply-To: "Dr. Gerald L Barbor" 's message of Fri, 25 Jun 1999 17:56:16 -0400 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Is Permethrin the brand name of the subtance or is that the active part of the insecticide. If you can find the article please post it. How does it work with bees and other biting insects. BUD ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 12:08:46 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Insect Repellant MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/26/99 9:13:26 AM EST, glbarbor@JUNO.COM writes: > There is an animal dip available called Permethrin (I buy it as a > 3.5% solution) There used to be a product with that chemical on cotton balls which field mice would use as nesting material. The deer ticks other host is field mice and this broke their cycle. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 11:52:46 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: RASpiek@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Insect Repellant MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The best/first line of defense against ticks is a weedeater & lawn mower. A tick likes tall vegetation so it can climb up and wait for a warm blooded animal to brush by so it can climb on. I live in an area in Ky that is always full of ticks (at least 4 different kinds) and I spend 80% of my time out doors. I remove ticks from myself almost daily. If i stay in the short grass, I have no problem. If I am going into the woods or tall grass, I use Rainbow Jungle Formula Repellant(N,N-diethyl-m-toluamide / N-Octylbicycloheptene dicarnboximide). I works and I cannot see any difference in the bee's behavior. I use it only below the knees. Lyme disease must not be prevalent here for I know of no cases in this area, ever in 30 years of working on phone lines. Just my opinion, Richard ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 10:42:28 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: R & S Adams Subject: Re: Insect Repellent (SW Missouri) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; boundary="YAYPHELeQIZcdTXQVRZHIVBBUSeFPP"; charset="iso-8859-1" I loved Gary's remedy of a Flea/Tick collar around each ankle! We have joked about this, but never actually tried it. Our hives are spread around out in the country, meadows at the edge of the woods, so Guineas are not an option for us. I have been working the bees in shorts, t-shirts and sandals this year, so far so good (I do wear a veil and usually gloves). But I HATE ticks & chiggers (disease aside, they give me the creeps). I spritz my feet, ankles & calves with "Skin-ta-stick" insect spray or Cutter's new "lite" repellent and the bees appear not to notice it. I did end up with an armful of ticks when I reached into the bag of pine needles that we burn in the smoker, but got them brushed off before they had a chance to go anywhere. One bee yard in particular is loaded with chiggers and when we both go in, it's obvious that the one who uses the spray comes out chigger free. The bees don't pay much attention to either of us. Susan Adams adamseden@ipa.net (We bee, therefore we are) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 12:05:10 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Insect Repellant MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/26/99 9:22:05 AM EST, Lcalmond@AOL.COM writes: > a few days later another bee-rescurer came out and listened with > his > stethascope and confirmed that they were all worker bees in that space, how > could he hear that? When you lift the cover of a queenless hive the bees "roar" somewhat like the sound of a colony that has been smoked too much. Perhaps that is what your friend heard. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 10:59:42 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: eparker Subject: Organic trends. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hollo Harry and all, Sorry for the slow/short responses. I am at the tail (stinger) end of my busy season And just trying to keep-up. I don't have the latest numbers, but sales of organic fruits and vegetables has increased about 20% (annually) for some years now. This is expected to increase even more as more of the large food chainstores enter the market. Organic honey is difficult to produce. Here are some standards that must be met in FL. 2 mile uncontaminated area, Sugar & sugar products prohibited during honey flow, Colonies infected with AFB must be destroyed, No "fume boards", Apiares must be on "certified" land, Synthetically compounded materials for health care are prohibited, and the extraction facility must adhere to all regulations for organic processing. There are many more regs. but I think you get the picture. I always did like a good challenge! Thanks again to all, keep the info (& honey) flowing. Ed Parker eparker@atlantic.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 19:59:51 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Dr. Gerald L Barbor" Subject: Insect repellant MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was initially unable to find my copy of the the Permethrin article, but below are some sites. While checking these pages I found the ABA Sales Catalog entry which gives the reference to Dr. Mellor's article in WINGING IT Sept 1992 (I believe that must be an Americam Bird Association publication). The essence of the article is to spray 0.5% Permethrin on clothes until damp and allow to dry. They mention Coulton's formula, which I was unable to identify. I have used a 3.20% product simply called Permethrin which is "Maunfactured for AGRA LABORATORIED LTD, P.O. Box 3103 St. Joseph MO. 64503 USA." I dilute it to 0.5% and spray on all clothes. The article claims that the material bonds to the fabric of the cloth, is virtually non-toxic to humans, is deactivated upon contact with the skin (and therefore must be used in conjunction with DEET on exposed skin). In tick experiments in Massachusetts they got 100% protection against all three stages of the deer tick and the same with the black legged tick in western U.S. I buy mine for $21.95 a quart (32 Fl Oz.) at a store called AnimalMedic and need use only a few ounces diluted to spray all of my africa clothes. I also use the same stuff on my dogs, which love to run in the grass, and find that I need to dip them every six weeks to keep the ticks off. The unanswered question is, "What will it do to the tranquility of the bees if it is covering your clothes?" http://myglobalmall.com/scs/perm.htm Government program http://myglobalmall.com/scs/dod.htm The DOD Protective System >From ABA Sales Catalog Odorless Duranon Tick Repellent Prevent Lyme Disease! Information on the effectiveness of Permethrin in repelling ticks, chiggers, and mosquitoes is available from ABA Sales on request, and is supplied to each purchaser of Duranon. As well, you will find complete application directions on the can's label. Duranon is your first-line defense against insect-borne diseases such as Rocky Mountain spotted fever, encephalitis, and Lyme Disease. It repels and kill the "Lyme" tick. Odorless Duranon is NOT applied directly to your skin, but is applied to your birding clothing and must be allowed to dry before you wear the clothing. One can is sufficient to treat a set of pants, socks, long-sleeved shirt, and hat. For more information about insect-borne diseases and their prevention, read Prevent Insect Bites by Dr. Norman H. Mellor in Winging It, September 1992. Sorry but we are not able to ship Duranon out of the USA. Plan your purchases to allow time to surface shipment. Air shipment is available, but is VERY costly. Item #995 Duranon 6oz spray can $5.25 Item #996 Duranon 6oz pump bottle $5.25 Item #997 Duranon 8oz liquid concentrate $21.95 Jerry Barbor in PA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 20:31:08 -0700 Reply-To: JamesCBach Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: JamesCBach Subject: Pesticide application timing, state regulations MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lori Quillen asks about how to find information on chemical application regulations/guidelines in several states. In some states pesticides are regulated by a division within a department of agriculture with a name similar to Pesticide Management Division, such as here in WA. If you contact the home pages of state departments of agriculture, look under headings that refer to pesticides, environment, department organization or any other title that gets you to the various functions within the departments. Then scan the home pages for pesticides or similar titles, and then look for what are usually called statutes and regulations. Here in WA are statutes are called Chapters in the Revised Code of WA (RCWs) and Chapters in the Washington Administrative Code (WACs, also called regulations). The RCW is the umbrella authority instrument enacted by the legislature, the WACs are enacted by the authority granted to the director of the Department of Agriculture by the legislature. The RCW has language of a general nature relating to public health, worker safety, pesticide use, mixing, and disposal, while the WAC is written to address specific problems not covered in the EPA Section 3 label or to tailor the product use to a specific crop and local environment, or for research purposes. It may be difficult to find the chapters on the web without a lot of searching under a lot of titles because these may be quite different from state to state. Another way to look for statutes and rules is to go to the state home page, then the code revisor (or some such designation). You may also find a link to the code revisor under the state's legislative page. I usually find that it is easiest to go to the state's home page, find the department of agriculture, find the pesticide page and send an e-mail to the contact person, or just send an email to the department's home page contact person and ask for a copy of the statutes and rules about the subject you're interested in. Some states, including WA do not have a fully developed home page or division pages yet. We're just now developing our Industry Apiary Program home page. On it I want links to statutes and rules about bees, pesticides, honey, sanitation, and other topics of interest to beekeepers. Lori, I will look into the pesticide Chapter numbers for WA and get back to you with the texts. I think I can do that by next Thursday. In some states pesticide statutes and rule language have been influenced by the beekeeping community to protect pollinators, i.e. usually thought of as managed honey bees. This is certainly true in WA and CA. Here in WA we have put a lot of effort into education, and regulatory language to protect honey bees. Most of the native pollinators are non-existent in areas of general agriculture because of all the chemicals used over the years. Regards, James C Bach WA State Apiarist jbach@agr.wa.gov jcbach@yvn.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 22:31:44 -0500 Reply-To: lkrengel@mc.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Larry Krengel Subject: Re: Insect Repellant MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I was wondering if it were possible to use some form of repellent to prevent > or reduce the number of stings on bare hands. A product which would not harm > the bees is obviously essential. I work with bare hands and rarely receive a sting. I am careful to have hands absent of strange smells. (The other day I avoided taking the smell of some delicious shrimp to the hive.) If I think I have an odor problem, I usually solve it by smoking my hands before handling the bees. So far it seems to work. In response to the mention of bee-horse problems, I keep horses within 50 feet of my bee yard. In the last ten years I have (knock on wood) never had a problem. Even when we use fly spray or "sheen coat" on the horses, the bees never pay attention. The only interaction between the two creatures often chigrins me. After a rain, the bees often find the damp manure pile of interest. I don't know what draws them there - doesn't seem much like nectar to me! Larry Krengel Marengo, IL USA ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 23:57:22 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Gary Lewis Subject: New Queen Need Help! Hello Bee Folks, I had a new queen arrive a few weeks ago. I placed her in a deep super with a few frames of brood sealed and open. I also placed in a few empty frames of drawn comb and filled the rest of the space with frames of honey. I checked the hive today the queen was walking around checking out empty cells, there was a nice patern of of new eggs and brood. My concern is there are very few workers in the hive. I fear I will end up with the new hive and queen dying. What can I do? I have another hive that is in good shape bringing in nectar and some pollen. Can I and should I switch the hives allowing the field force from the strong hive come in to the hive with the new queen in it? If I do this will the new queen be in danger of being killed? Should I also put an extra super on top of the new hive, as the strong hive is two deeps. Should I feed the new hive with a pollen substitute in patty form? Or will the feild bees begin to take care of the needs of the queen? All advice will be of great help. Also the sooner the better I don't think there is much time left with so few workers in the new hive. There is sealed brood but even that will not be a great increase. Gary C. Lewis Duke Center, Pa. U.S.A. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 10:22:15 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Pollution Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello All Ed Parker wrote inter alia >Apiares must be on "certified" land, But how do you stop the bees from gaining access to polluted forage when you cannot control where they visit within their foraging radius unless you own or otherwise totally control the crops grown on the land over which they forage. Given that bees will fly lets say up to 3 miles (4.8 km) for forage, the area covered by a beehive must be PI* 3*3 square miles (28.27) which works out as 18093 acres. Quite a large area indeed!. Do you write something like 'To the best of my knowledge and belief this honey is produced from forage which is largely not polluted, but I cannot guarantee that the bees have not visited polluted crops' on the label. But what good would that be to a market place that wants unconditionally guaranteed organic products?. The fact that nobody can now supply such products is neither here nor there. Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park, Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland Tel + 353 1 289 5269 Fax + 353 1 289 9940 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 06:40:49 -0500 Reply-To: ribac@wi.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Randy & Isa Chase Subject: Re: Insect Repellant MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have been using latex surgical gloves when working the bees. The gloves greatly reduce the amount of propolis I somehow manage to cover myself with and the stings that I do receive are not as nasty because of the latex. If the amount of alarm pheromone gets too high (characterized by repeated attacks to the same area), I remove the offending glove and use another one. One note of caution, some people may have an allergic reaction to latex. Another potential problem is that in hot weather your hands tend to sweat a lot. The sweat will accumulate in the gloves which generally results in "prune hands" and a quantity of water in the fingertips if the gloves are not on tight. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 06:28:57 -0600 Reply-To: fltdeck1@ix.netcom.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Matthew Subject: Re: Colony on tree branch MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Unless you prefer to be a bee-haver than a beekeeper, I'm with 'Gothany' below. If you bend a sympathetic spirit and allow the bees to keep their wild comb however beautiful it may be, you'll end up with a ratty uncontrollable mess. Bees prefer to continue building on their own designs no matter how great you think your wax foundation is in the super below or above. You won't do your bees any favor by letting them keep the branch. Shake the bees and toss the comb where they can rob out the remnants. Depending on the flow, I'll place feral honeycomb outside on their landing boards and cover with a tile or cardboard scrap. Note that you can easily invite hive robbers depending on nearby hives or the nectar flow. If you want to salvage the comb, place them inside empty frames (size according to the majority of brood-comb). Twine can be used to hold them in place but beware of materials that fray into fine threads. After the bees chew through the fibers you'll find little 'bee-traps' here and there and their feet get caught when passing. Skinny rubber bands do great! Two or three seem to hold an average comb tight enough to keep the comb from shifting. Make sure you move the comb as close to one side as possible giving the bees three sides for support (four if you have a comb large enough to completely fill the frame) and place the combs all to one side of your hive so you don't end up with unnecessary space between combs. Matthew Westall - Castle Rock, CO > the sooner you abandon the branch the better! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 20:57:02 -0700 Reply-To: JamesCBach Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: JamesCBach Subject: Organic food, honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here in WA the organic food program in the department of agriculture is increasing in size because more growers are producing organic produce. In 1997 I studied the organic standards proposed by the Oregon Tilth Association. I found it to be 15 pages of ideas and standards that fit soil grown produce fairly well but in my opinion, didn't meet the need of honey producers at all. Its language for bees and honey strongly indicated that the authors didn't know anything about beekeeping, disease management, or honey production and packing processes. It included such things as the hives must be a stated distance from garbage land fills, poorly described roads, industrial areas, and cities. It required the beekeeper to know where the cattle drinking facilities were, what chemicals were applied by everyone within the foraging distance of the apiary, to keep records on all this information, and be subject to inspection at cost. None of the requirements were based on science. There wasn't any requirement to ascertain the level of pollution, chemicals, or other man-made materials in so-called non-organic honey, nor was there a requirement to test organic honey. In other words, there is no scientific evidence, that I am aware of, that so-called organic honey is more pure than non-organic honey nor of any more health benefit to consumers. It appeared that the standards were based upon soil grown, prescribed site production rather on the work of free flying insects. I wrote a 14 page analysis of the Standards for our organic program manager stating all of the shortcomings of the document. Needless to say when the USDA proposed their standards I wrote in opposition to them on the same grounds as found in the Oregon Standards. There had been some talk that the OR Standards were to become the federal proposed standards. There may be some areas in the continental US and Alaska where organic honey may be produced but here in WA where ever flowers grow there will be some impact from industry, urban areas, synthetic fertilizers, cattle foraging, or the effects of down wind movement of these. Add to these the need for chemical use in the maintenance of bee colonies to keep them alive and I think it becomes extremely difficult to cost effectively produce organic honey. James C. Bach jbach@agr.wa.gov jcbach@yvn.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 23:11:19 -0500 Reply-To: lkrengel@mc.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Larry Krengel Subject: Name that disease MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A little help from the list, please. I have one colony that is not doing well. I think I can identify most usual bee diseases, but I am not sure with this one. (Is it even a disease?) There is a peppered appearance to the brood nest with brood of numerous ages of brood and eggs intermixed. It seems that the queen is doing her job, but the brood seem to not be surviving. I considered foul brood. Yet there is not the stringy appearance to dead brood and no characteristic smell. It also seems that the brood are dying at different ages. Some seem to be a blob of white stuff. Some have pupated (a word?) and the pupa is dead... sometimes white, sometimes brown in color. I know chalk brood and there are no mummies. A month ago this colony seemed fine and I added the first super. They licked the wet super clean and have stored nothing. Not surprising because there numbers are shrinking. I have thought of requeening, but the queen is laying lots of eggs. Maybe for some reason the eggs are not viable. I have removed the super and considered removing one hive body. (All the action is in the top of two hive bodies.) Perhaps this will reduce the stress and allow them to recuperate. I considered medicating them for foul brood - late though it may be - but this doesn't seem to be foul brood disease. Being a hobbyist, I have the time to ponder, play, and expend time to save this group. I'm sure the pros would restart the colony from scratch. Any suggestions? What am I dealing with? Larry Krengel Marengo, IL ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 00:47:17 -0400 Reply-To: ad012@osfn.rhilinet.gov Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Frederick Chase Subject: flying by moonlight? Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Do bees ever fly on warm, full-moon nights? If not, why? Is there a minimum amount of light needed? Fred Chase ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 00:51:41 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Vivian Donahue Subject: Insect Repellent (SW Missouri) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" One of the country "remedys" for ticks and chiggers we used when I lived in the woods was Selsun Blue shampoo. We would wash down with it both before and after going out and never had much of a problem with ticks and chiggers after we started using it. I don't recall if I ever worked my bees using it, so don't know how they would respond to it. But it is the sulpher in it that keeps the chiggers and ticks away. Vivian vdonahue@earthlink.net >Our hives are spread around out in the country, meadows at the edge of the >woods, so Guineas are not an option for us. I have been working the bees in >shorts, t-shirts and sandals this year, so far so good (I do wear a veil and >usually gloves). But I HATE ticks & chiggers (disease aside, they give me >the creeps). I spritz my feet, ankles & calves with "Skin-ta-stick" insect >spray or Cutter's new "lite" repellent and the bees appear not to notice it. >I did end up with an armful of ticks when I reached into the bag of pine >needles that we burn in the smoker, but got them brushed off before they had >a chance to go anywhere. >One bee yard in particular is loaded with chiggers and when we both go in, >it's obvious that the one who uses the spray comes out chigger free. The >bees don't pay much attention to either of us. > >Susan Adams >adamseden@ipa.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 23:11:12 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tom Elliott Subject: Re: Insect Repellant MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit BeeCrofter@AOL.COM wrote: > When you lift the cover of a queenless hive the bees "roar" somewhat like the > sound of a colony that has been smoked too much. > Perhaps that is what your friend heard. In my experience it takes more than a few days to have a hive start to "sound queenless." -- "Test everything. Hold on to the good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21) Tom Elliott Chugiak, Alaska U.S.A. beeman@gci.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 16:01:01 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pollinator@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Question on Pesticide Application TIming & Bee Mortality Comments: cc: Cakefight9@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/26/99 7:43:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Cakefight9@AOL.COM writes: > I just finished reading Carl Johansen's POLLINATOR PROTECTION HANDBOOK. > In it he says that many states have regulations stating the time of day that > certain pesticides can be applied "as to prevent hazards to bee pollinators." > > Does anyone know how I could go about finding information on application > regulations/guidelines in NY, WA, FL, and CA? Any clues on who to call? All states have an agency that enforces pesticide laws. In many states it is the environmental agency. Here in South Carolina it is a specialized enforcement unit under Clemson University. Most of them should have web sites by now. You need to go to the state government's main page and do some searching. When you find the head person, e-mail them for a copy of the laws. South Carolina has also been placing their entire law code on the internet. I don't know if it is finished, but this is another source of answers to your question. You should also be aware that the primary operative protection for bees is in Federal law, the 1972 act called FIFRA (I believe "Federal Insecticide, Fungicide, and Rodenticide Act"). The specific law for each pesticide is now placed on the label of that material, and it is a violation to use the pesticide not in accordance with the label directions. It is a criminal act to willfully violate label directions. Prior to FIFRA, in many court decisions about bee poisonings in the '40's, '50's, and '60's, bees were declared to be "trespassers" and the courts always made it the responsibility of the beekeeper to "protect" them. Private property interest reigned in favor of the applicators (though some crop duster planes got burned). FIFRA set aside the "trespasser" concept, and recognized bees as an environmental resource, making the applicator responsible for their protection. That is why you find bee protection directions on the labels under "Environmental Hazards" Americans have traditionally had a high regard for private property. But this has some limitations. You can no longer kill songbirds, poach wild game, fish with dynamite, poison your stream, or kill the bees that forage on your property. The core of environmental laws are federally mandated, but state enforced. States can make laws more stringent than the federal law, but cannot make them more lenient. For example, Connecticut has a law that bans the use of Penncap M after a certain date (June 15?), because there was so much damage. But states frequently make an "end run" around federal law, by providing applicators a means to evade the label directions, and pass back the responsibility to the beekeepers, by beekeeper notification setups. These schemes can, and should be challenged, because they weaken the federal law, but you know how hard it is to get beekeepers to do anything as a whole. And any pesticide advisors that tells applicators to call the beekeeper and require them to "protect" the bees, is making a recommendation of misuse. He should be prosecuted, because he is giving applicators a way to evade compliance with the label directions. The pre-FIFRA mindset is strong, because beekeepers are politically weak, and the interests that use pesticide are strong. Enforcement is best in areas where growers know they need bees (orchard and vegetable areas) and is very weak in other areas such as cotton country (where growers "think" they don't need bees, and they have a lot of clout with Clemson and other universities). The vector control people have been lobbying EPA for exemption from bee protection directions, a back door way of admitting that they routinely break the law. Dr. Roger Morse is one of the few people within the system with the courage and the prestige to stand up and be counted. He told the medfly folks in Florida that, if they were killing bees, they were misusing the pesticide. I look to our bee experts within the university/extension system to pull for implementation and enforcement of the label directions, as they should be doing. But they are bought and paid for by the system, which is bought and paid for by large corporations and powerful agricultural groups, such as cotton growers. Most of the time they wimp out (including Carl Johansen), and go back to pre-FIFRA mentality, leaving beekeepers holding a bag that has driven many into bankruptcy. There is NO WAY, I can chase to multiple sites on any given day during cotton bloom and "protect" my bees. And a hobby beekeeper is not going to be in good standing with his boss, if he has to stay home and "protect" his bees, every time a neighbor sprays. We have got to insist on enforcement of the labels, and these labels place the responsibility squarely on the applicators. I watched a Cornell fruit advisor try to stand up for better enforcement of the label laws (this in a fruit belt, where growers know they need pollinators, yet too many poison them anyway), and he got badly reamed out by his superiors. To my knowledge he has never said another word about it. > I am also wondering if these regulations are in place to protect bees in > general or just managed hives. If it was primarily for managed hives, I'd > expect there to be more regulations in the states that rely heavily on crop > pollination. The labels do not distinguish between feral and domestic honeybees, nor even for other bee species, but regulators commonly avoid including wild bees, citing "history" of the law as precedent. I don't know if this would hold up in a challenge, as all bees are an environmental resource. Wild bees are more apt to be damaged than domestic ones (especially where the "call your beekeeper" schemes rule), and have less chance of recovery, since they don't have a beekeeper to try to salvage them. Of course bees can't defend themselves, so those who have a keeper to fight for an end to pesticide misuse have a better chance than wild ones. > Thanks in adavance for any input!! I am new at locating this type of > informtaion, and the book was a bit grey about who exactly to call. It > could > be different in each state- which would further complicate things!!! To protect bees: 1. Get copies of labels of materials commonly used in your area. Thoroughly know the law. Know what blossoms the bees are working. 2 Carry a camcorder when blooming crops, or crops with intermingled blooming weeds, are being sprayed. Report applications, as "suspected" violations, if you think the label is being violated. Record the applications and the bees visiting the blossoms in the treatment area. 3. Be assertive. I've had inspectors refuse to come, refuse to take samples, or delay to where samples won't show anything. I've filed personal civil rights claims against some of them. They usually come the same day now. It's an uphill fight to get protection, though the bees are an environmental resouce, and we are citizens who do have rights. Common violations that cause bee kills: 1. Orchard floor has clover, mustard or other attractive weeds growing; bees coming to them are killed by insecticide applications for the fruit. 2. Applications for mosquitoes, medflies, gypsy moths, grasshoppers, etc. that are made when bees are foraging on blossoms in the treatment area. -Often done by public agencies, who should know better. I try to contact them ahead of time, let them know bees are foraging in the treatment area, offer to help them determine what hours bees are working, and warn them that I will seek criminal charges if they violate the label. So far it hasn't changed practices much; they are stuck in a pre-FIFRA groove. Every year the mosquito control people run ads in the paper asking beekeepers to notify them where they keep bees, so they can be notified of pending applications). We just had a clearcut violation here in Heminway, when the county sprayed for mosquitoes at midmorning when all the spring bloom was open, just prior to a festival. I am awaiting to see if the regulators will file criminal charges. If they don't, I will swear out a warrant myself, and am looking into the possibility of including the regulators, who try to "look the other way," for a fellow public official. 3. Non-attractive crops that have attractive blossoms growing as weeds, such as mustard in wheat. 4. Orchardists "jump the gun" on petal fall applications, before full petal fall. (I will soon be posting some aids for cotton applicators to monitor bee foraging in order to comply with the laws. I'll try to post this info here as well.) Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html The Pollination Home Page: http://www.pollinator.com Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 17:34:40 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pollinator@AOL.COM Subject: Cotton belt: Looking for (experienced, volunteer) beekeepers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A pesticide applicator looking at the label directions sees that it is forbidden to apply when bees are foraging in the application area. But, unless he has a monitor hive, he has no real way to determine when the bees are there. I have repeatedly asked Clemson to set up a hot line, or a web site, to post the hours bees are carrying cotton pollen. So far they have refused, even though I offered to donate the hives that would be needed. So I am going to set up a volunteer web site, as part of The Pollination Home Page. I am going to do this for SC, at least, but weather conditions and other factors would introduce variables for other areas. If you would like to be part of a network to provide info for your region, you could help to reduce pesticide poisoning in the entire cotton belt. The responsibilities would include having one or two monitor hives close to cotton and close to where you are, so you can check them several times a day, twice a week (or more if possible). Note when bees start carrying cotton pollen. As soon as bees are no longer carrying cotton pollen, e-mail me of the start/finish hours, so they can be posted for the following day. If your bees have a poisoning incident, you should also report that, with as much detail as you can. If you want to do this anonymously, I'll respect that. The page will have a notice that this is for information only, done by volunteers, and no responsiblity will be taken for the use of this info. The address of the page will be http://www.pollinator.com/cotton/ (It's not even online yet....) I'm sorry, we don't want beginners here. I'm looking for beekeepers with years of experience around cotton. I hope to have at least one from GA, NC, AL, MS, TX (2, if possible) and CA and AZ. If you are not in these states, but have a significant amount of cotton around you, contact me anyway. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html The Pollination Home Page: http://www.pollinator.com Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 18:07:42 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Recent threads MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To draw a few recent threads together, I have in the last few days been put on Ibubrofen for a lower back problem which, besides being painful makes me walk crabwise - pressure on a nerve. Mindful of the recent warnings on the list, when I went to play with my bees yesterday I put a couple of Apis mel. pills under my tongue before opening up. Although the smoker was lit as back up I hardly used it but used a plain water mist from a sprayer instead. It worked like a charm. I did collect about 4 stings on my ungloved hands from as many hives but there was no reaction and within a few minutes I couldn't say which hand had been stung. This morning I helped my bee buddy hive his first swarm. They were fine but being in my hands and knees I put a hand on a bee and was stung. I did not take Apis mel. My hand swelled and is still swollen 12 hours later. Although this is a mere anecdote and not scientific evidence I think I'll keep the Apis mel. handy for as long as I'm on the Ibubrufen. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 21:56:47 -0400 Reply-To: slnewc@alltel.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Steve Newcomb Subject: Re: Question on Pesticide Application TIming & Bee Mortality MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Lori Try calling the local cooperative extension service in the state and counties concerned. They should have all the information you need, or be able to point you in the right direction. Here in Ohio, pesticide license testing is done at the extension service offices. Steve ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 12:22:16 -0500 Reply-To: lkrengel@mc.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Larry Krengel Subject: Re: flying by moonlight? Comments: To: ad012@OSFN.RHILINET.GOV MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Do bees ever fly on warm, full-moon nights? If not, why? > Is there a minimum amount of light needed? > > Fred Chase Fred - I would expect not... though I am not the authority... because bees navigate by ultraviolet rays from the sun. I would expect that little if any ultraviolet is reflected from the moon. With no navigation system night flight of any distance would be lethal. Larry Krengel Marengo, IL USA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 14:18:52 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pollinator@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Name that disease Comments: To: lkrengel@mc.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/27/99 9:27:17 AM Eastern Daylight Time, lkrengel@mc.net writes: >There is a peppered appearance to the brood nest with brood of numerous ages of brood and eggs intermixed. It seems that the queen is doing her job, but the brood > seem to not be surviving. I considered foul brood. Yet there is not the stringy > appearance to dead brood and no characteristic smell. It also seems that > the brood are dying at different ages. Some seem to be a blob of white stuff. > Some have pupated (a word?) and the pupa is dead... sometimes white, sometimes brown in color. I know chalk brood and there are no mummies. One can only conjecture from this distance, and without any testing. I see one occasionally that would fit your description. I put it down as "weak stock." One possibility that occurs to me, is that, in this time of dwindling bees, there are fewer and fewer drones out there, and the probability increases, of the young queen mating with her brothers. This brood becomes very poor, as a lot of it is not viable. This coupled with bees that have poor hygiene, could lead to symtoms such as you describe. Tracheal or varroa damage, with associated viruses, and poor-hygiene bees could also be an explanation. > I have thought of requeening, but the queen is laying lots of eggs. Maybe > for > some reason the eggs are not viable. I have removed the super and > considered > removing one hive body. (All the action is in the top of two hive bodies.) > Perhaps this will reduce the stress and allow them to recuperate. I > considered > medicating them for foul brood - late though it may be - but this doesn't > seem > to be foul brood disease. > My primary means of dealing with such bees is requeening, with a cell from my own vigorous stock, or a purchased mated queen. It usually cleans right up, if it is not too late in the season. I doubt if terra would make any difference, unless you have european foulbrood, which is another thought that crossed my mind. With EFB, the larva dies in a curved position, not quite so flat and centered on the bottom of the cell, and of course, doesn't string. I have seen EFB, chalkbrood and sacbrood, all in the same hive, in different cells (what else could better tell you that it is weak stock!). EFB is not common, but pops up now and then. Antibiotic would "cure" it, but you still have susceptible bees, so I'd requeen also. Pollinator@aol.com Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html The Pollination Home Page: http://www.pollinator.com Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles) http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 14:51:56 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: eparker Subject: Certified Apiary MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Tom and everyone, The main reason the apiary must be on "certified land" is for inspections. To be certified a land owner MUST agree to announced & unannounced inspections. An inspector would be trespassing during an unannounced inspection if the land were not certified. The "forage area" need not be certified, just the apiary. I had an "announced" inspection of my vegetables today. He said he would be here at 8:00 AM. He knocked on the door at 8:30 saying he had already been through the fields and unlocked buildings. We then went through the locked buildings and spent 3 hours going=20 over records. People who don't follow the rules do get caught.=20 No one could "guarantee" 100% purity. But let's take my place and a 2 mile radius around it for an example. North - grass pasture, woods & 900 blueberry plants at my neighbors. Blueberries are not sprayed during fruit set. Any spraying is done after harvest. West - watermelon at 1.7 miles and another watermelon field at 1.9 miles. total area between the fields approx. 25 acres. South - woods and pasture. East - lake and low land. (There is a farm across the swamp but I don"t know how they get there! For now let's=20 assume it to be pasture.) Of 8658 acres, 25 acres(.003%) are flowering and=20 contaminated. (Once again, thats provided I don"t find a large flowering crop across the swamp) The only other "known" source of contamination is sometimes during wet periods farmers will spray their pasture with a fungicide. This is done in late spring and could happen during a honey flow. Should that be enough contamination to void "certified organic". Everyone's view on this is important to me. Please "say it how you feel it" Thanks Ed Parker eparker@atlantic.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 00:58:37 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Subject: Re: New Queen Need Help! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gary Lewis wrote: > there was a nice patern of of new eggs and brood. My concern is > there are very few workers in the hive. I fear I will end up with the > new hive and queen dying. What can I do? > > I have another hive that is in good shape bringing in nectar and some > pollen. > Can I and should I switch the hives allowing the field force from the > strong hive come in to the hive with the new queen in it? Your new queen will eventually produce enough new bees to eliminate the population problem. They won't produce more brood than they can take care of. However, reversing the hives is an old and good method for rapid equalization of populations. It can be done easily during a honey flow with no untoward effects. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 22:22:57 -0700 Reply-To: JamesCBach Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: JamesCBach Subject: Name that disease MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Larry Krengel asks about the possible cause of the dead and dying brood in his colony. His description is very good, just what I like to hear from an observer. The colony is also diminishing in strength. One bit of information Larry could have supplied would have been whether both of his colonies were started this spring. I think Dave Green is headed in the right direction with his reply. He suspects "weak stock." I would also ask Larry to observe whether there is a queen retinue around the queen when she stops on the comb face or whether they ignore the queen, and whether the bees evenly cluster over the brood rearing area or whether they run off the comb or seem to be listless, whether they are quiet or noisy. I have seen these same symptoms since 1969 in bee hives. My explanation is as follows: 1. The queen is not producing the pheromones necessary to cause the proper worker bee behavior, 2. The workers will not form a queen retinue but rather ignore her, 3. The colony will be "noisy" (making a queenless noise from 60 to 85 decibels) for some indeterminate period until they become listless then silent, 4. The lack of pheromone means the bees are not stimulated to feed brood, (and maybe the brood is not producing the pheromone that triggers nurse bee feeding behavior) thus the dead and dying brood at various ages, and the spotty brood pattern, 5. The queen's genetics is poor i.e.. from inbred stock. My recommendations in the following order: 1. Order or obtain a new queen. 2. Feed her and the attendants with Fumidil-B in water for two days. 3. Add two or three frames of only emerging brood and young bees from your other colony to the weak colony. 4. Then find the current queen and kill her by crushing her on the screen of the new queen cage. Leave the queen's remains on the screen or let them drop into the open hive. 5. Insert the cage down between the center combs of the single story hive (10 or less combs of bees); or up between the combs of the second story if the colony is 15 or more combs of bees. 6. Go back in three to five days to see if you see fresh eggs and remove the queen cage. Be sure the queen has exited the cage before you remove the cage. Or, depending on the length of your honey flow and whether the bees can store enough honey for winter, pinch the queen, throw her out of the hive and combine the colony with your other hive. Next spring split the remaining colony to get your second hive. James C. Bach jbach@agr.wa.gov jcbach@yvn.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 22:35:12 -0700 Reply-To: JamesCBach Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: JamesCBach Subject: Do bees fly on full moon nights? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Fred Chase questions if bees will fly with a full moon, and if not why not. I have observed bee flight on hot summer nights (90s during the day, and 70s at night) here in Yakima, WA. During the honey flow I have heard (you couldn't observe) bees flying back to the apiary when it was so dark you couldn't see to walk in the yard without turning on the porch light. There was only the slightest tint of light in the western sky at the horizon. When it became "pitch dark" there was no more bee flight. I also observed the same thing in the morning. Bees flying away from the apiary when it was too dark to see the ground in front of you. I have not observed bees to fly with a full moon, without some light from the setting sun. I think the literature says that bees fly using polarized light which may be why they can fly when it is so dark, and even on a heavily clouded day. I presume the moon doesn't give off polarized light. Later in the fall when the temperatures drop and the honey flow tapers off the bees no longer fly so early or so late. James C. Bach jbach@agr.wa.gov jcbach@yvn.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 08:43:46 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Partin Subject: Re: Certified Apiary In-Reply-To: eparker 's message of Sun, 27 Jun 1999 14:51:56 -0400 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) ED the watermelon patches are a problem in that they spray all the time. If the melons are not blooming the blackberrys on the fence rows are and the drift always gets them. If the ranchers have a hay field , in your area nearly all do, they are sprayed often for army worms. Bees work pastures in Florida sometimes. I do not know how many people have gardens around you but in Fl. nearly all use chem. to grow them. I am surprised that a corn field is not within two miles of your farm, there is a lot of corn grown in your area. The ranchers that own those pastures have cattle and they spray their cattle all the time and they might use antibiotics in the water also. In a populated rual area like yours I do not think you can make what I think and would call organic honey. I lease about 150,000 acres of timber land for bees and I would be glad to let you have a few yards where you would not be within two miles of any other beekeeper or any spray. Most gallberry and palmetto honey that is produced has a better chance of being called organic even if the beekeeper uses a miteside and antibiotics than a person calling their honey organic if produced in an area like yours. GOOD LUCK BUD your neighbor ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 08:28:48 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Thom Bradley Subject: Re: Cotton belt: Looking for (experienced, volunteer) beekeepers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dave, You really need to include Virginia in the list. There is a significant amount of cotton grown here starting about 50 miles west of the ocean. Unfortunately I am not that far west. I think the idea is outstanding and one of those things we need to do to insure our existence. Thom Bradley Pollinator@AOL.COM wrote: > I'm looking for beekeepers with > years of experience around cotton. I hope to have at least one from GA, NC, > AL, MS, TX (2, if possible) and CA and AZ. If you are not in these states, > but have a significant amount of cotton around you, contact me anyway. > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 10:33:31 -0500 Reply-To: lkrengel@mc.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Larry Krengel Subject: Re: Name that disease Comments: To: JamesCBach MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit James - Thanks for your response. Here are the answers you wished. > One bit of information Larry could have supplied would have been whether both > of his > colonies were started this spring. These were both overwintered colonies with 2 year old queens, but I visit them only sporadically, so I don't follow their progress closely. The queen was not marked, so she may have been superseded. > I would also ask Larry to observe whether there is a queen retinue around the > queen There seemed to be no organization to the bees on the brood area. The queen was not well attended, but that is not unusual when disturbed by open the hive. I was struck by the fact that the nurse bees where not busy nursing as I would normally see. > whether they run off the comb or seem to be listless, whether they are quiet > or noisy. No great noise, but they were more excitable. I use smoke only sparingly, but they over reacted to just a little smoke. > maybe the brood is not producing the pheromone that triggers nurse bee > feeding behavior) Interesting, I didn't realize that the brood produced a pheromone to draw the nurse bees to them. > 5. The queen's genetics is poor i.e.. from inbred stock. This hive is in a very isolated area. The four hives I keep there are likely miles from any but feral colonies... and feral colonies are very scarce right now. An imported queen is on the agenda. Larry Krengel Marengo, IL USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 10:41:28 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Thom Bradley Subject: Genetically Engineered Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This article was from FOX News online last Friday. I can't find the link again today. Thom Bradley Chesapeake, Virginia Bio-Engineered Honey Could Help Medicine Go Down > 9.14 a.m. ET (1314 GMT) June 24, 1999 > > LONDON - Dutch researchers are breeding genetically modified plants whose > nectar could be used to produce honey containing drugs or vaccines, New > Scientist magazine said Wednesday. > Scientists at the Center for Plant Breeding and Reproduction Research in > Wageningen are adding genes for various drugs to the plants to produce a > healing nectar. > > They discovered a genetic switch, or promoter, that activates the genes in > > the nectary of the plant where the nectar is made. The switch is specific > to > the nectary so the drugs are produced only in the nectar. > > "It's a production system that would require very little purification," > Tineke Creemers told New Scientist magazine. > > The genetically modified honey could either be fed to patients or the > drugs > could be taken from it. > > Creemers and her colleagues are using a similar system to grow genetically > > modified petunias to produce a vaccine against a dog disease called > parvovirus. > > "Once the plants are fully grown and begin producing nectar, bees will be > unleashed on them to produce honey that the researchers hope will contain > the vaccine," the magazine added. > > The study is restricted to greenhouses so the researchers can guarantee > the > bees are only feeding on the modified plants. > > The scientists are also looking into whether the sugar in honey will act > as > a preservative which could be a big advantage for vaccination programs in > tropical countries which lack large supplies of refrigeration equipment. > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 12:54:01 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Hough, Rick S." Subject: Re: Genetically Engineered Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Thom Bradley recently quoted an article on Bio-Engineered Honey from FOX News online. The URL to that article is http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/062499/nectar.sml Rick Hough, rshough@tasc.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 12:58:58 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Greg Hankins Subject: Organic Honey Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Appreciated James Bach's post on this one -- about inappropriateness of Oregon Standards. Carrying his notion a bit further, I wonder if the notion of "organic" produce hasn't gotten a bit sidetracked into focusing too exclusively on keeping certain things (pesticides, chemical fertilizers) *out* of foods, rather than on fostering organic (i.e., farming systems championed by Rodale and others) gardening and farming practices that put more *in* to foods (nutrition, flavor) and have, as an important side benefit, the effect of supressing pests and disease, helping to eliminate the need for pesticides and such. I prefer organic produce -- that I grow myself -- because it tastes fresher and better, and I think it's better for me.. And I prefer my own comb honey, or chunk honeu that included strained, unheated liquid honey in the pack, because it tastes better, and I think it's better for me. Seems to me people who want to know more about their food should exercise their option to buy from local suppliers they know and/or can question about the food they're buying. Having an "organic" stamp from Oregon, California, Florida, or the USDA on my tomatoes, honey or eggs tells me almost nothing useful about how the person who produced it keeps his or her garden, bees, or chickens. Greg ______________________________________________________________ Greg Hankins Happy Hank's Honey House ghankins@ac.net Mt. Gilead, North Carolina ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 13:01:00 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BOGANSRJ@APCI.COM Subject: Fume Boards MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello All, There has been some talk on the problems with the use of Bee Go/Honey Robber for removing bees from supers. I prefer Honey Robber because it has the fruit smell added to "cut" the odor. This may not work as well as the straight product but I can live with that. I have had good success using this product. Obviously, it works best on a warm sunny day, but we don't always get that. The trick in using this product on any day is to ensure that the fume board (FB) is warm. I noticed this when pulling honey from colonies that were in partial shade. It never seemed to work as well in these areas regardless of the temperature. I don't know what types of fume boards are out there but the one I use is a simple frame covered with felt and backed by sheet metal. For my system the sheet metal is important. I store these in black trash bags. I use two FBs at a time. As soon as I arrive at the apiary I place the boards, still in the black bag, in direct sunlight. This will warm them up a bit. I will then prepare the colonies. I smoke two of the colonies lightly and take the covers off. I will add Bee Go to the FB as needed. I just sprinkle a small amount criss-crossing the surface, making sure there is a good amount near the edges. The most difficult bees to remove seem to be found on the sides of the supers. I place one FB on the top of each colony, wait a few minutes and begin removing supers alternating between colonies. In the time it takes me to remove the super and place it on the truck the next one is ready on the alternate colony. If I can get one of my children to help, their job is to place the FB back on as soon as the super is removed. This really speeds up the process and removes almost all of the bees. I also place covers on the removed supers. Some remaining bees will move up to these. They can be shaken off before leaving. If there are any left when I return home, I will blow them out before taking them into the honey house. I noticed that some apiaries were consistently harder to work than others. These were somewhat shaded or being worked at the end of the day. That's when I realized it was the more important for the FB to be warm than the actual outside temperature. If the board gets cold it should be warmed up. The chemical must vaporize to work properly. On moderately sunny days I will place the black trash bag on top of the FB. In shady spots on sunny days you can place it back in the sun for a while. However there are areas when this just won't work. You could place a warm smoker on the FB, it helps but not a lot. What is needed is a portable heating device. I have found that a small propane torch works great. You need one with an automatic igniter. This is important because it allows one hand operation, is much more efficient, and keeps you from leaving the torch burning because "constant relighting is a bother". Safety First! You only need to pass the flame over the METAL covered FB a few seconds to warm it up. It should never get so hot that it can't be touched with a bare hand. Please be careful and take your time. We don't need any fires or burned beekeepers. Don't just throw the torch on the ground. Having a small metal bucket to place the torch in when not using is a good idea and also some water (which you should have with you anyway). This should not become the primary method of heating the FB. Use the sun whenever you can. I have had better success using fume boards than any other method. The bees don't tend to become very upset as I have found when using a blower. Last year while using fume boards and being assisted by my daughter we did experience one problem. We were pulling supers and the boards were working very well. I would pull and she would replace the FB. On one colony I took the last super and went to the truck. She didn't notice it was the last and placed the FB on the hive body. It didn't take too long before half the colony was hanging on the outside. The board was removed and they retreated in a few minutes. I don't like stressing them like that but they seemed ok by the time we left. This shows that FBs do work. There is one other problem that could arise unless proper precautions. If you wish to remain an accepted member of the family, NEVER bring the fume boards in the house. Once I left them in the truck when it needed service. The garage called and wanted to know what was the "horrible smell" from my truck and when would it be gone. Ron Bogansky Kutztown, (eastern) PA, USA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 10:53:46 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Von Frisch hypothesis and swarming Comments: To: Social Insect Biology Research Comments: cc: ENTOMO-L@LISTSERV.UOGUELPH.CA, HPSST-L@POST.QUEENSU.CA, greenber@WSUHUB.UC.TWSU.EDU, berwick@ai.mit.edu, chomsky@MIT.EDU, schram@bio.uva.nl, joschmid@U.Arizona.EDU, edwards@tucson.ars.ag.gov, buchmann@tucson.ars.ag.gov, BCULTURE@aol.com, IBRA@cardiff.ac.uk, Dadant@dadant.com, wmangum@mwc.edu, Dewsbury@psych.ufl.edu, smilius@sciserv.org, fltdeck1@IX.NETCOM.COM, wenner@onlinemac.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Julian O'Dea from Australia asked (in part): >For some time, I have been interested in Adrian Wenner's >criticisms of the evidence in support of the von Frisch "dance >language" hypothesis. >I recently found [a popular] article in New Scientist (UK) of 5 June >1999 on the decision-making process in honeybee swarming, >which seemed to provide strong support for the classical >von Frisch hypothesis. >"Group decision making in a swarm of honey bees" by >Thomas Seeley and Susannah Buhrman, "Behavioral >Ecology and Sociobiology", vol. 45, p.19, 1999 and >"Collective decisions and cognition in bees" by Kirk >Visscher and Scott Camazine, "Nature", vol. 397, p.400, >1999. -- CLIP -- Those interested in the swarming phenomenon might well read the following paper: Wenner, A.M. 1992. Swarm movement: A mystery explained. AMERICAN BEE JOURNAL. 132 (Jan.):27-31. That article illustrates why one need not embrace the bee language hypothesis when trying to understand swarming behavior among honey bees. An odor-search hypothesis suffices. Julian surmised as much when he wrote: >However, there are some issues that come to mind. Is it possible that >[bees >become recruited as postulated] merely because they are picking up >familiar >odours from the other scout bees, and dancing in accordance with >their memory of >the associated sites? That is, the communication is via >odour not via >the dance? Virtually all beekeepers know that virtually all bees in a moving swarm fly pretty much in circles --- not in a bee line as expected by the language hypothesis. The swarm apparently has been led by Nasanov gland odors emitted by the hundreds of scouts that have made the trip many times. Julian also asked: >My first reading of the New Scientist article was that there >was new, strong evidence against Professor Wenner's critique of the >von Frisch interpretation. But now I am not so sure. Does anybody >have an opinion? ********* Many of those who have followed the bee language controversy these past several years now realize that we live in two parallel universes on this issue (as is so often true in controversies). A rather small body of avid language advocates embraces all supportive evidence and pays essentially no heed to the great amount of negative evidence that has accumulated this past half century (even that evidence inherent in von Frisch's own publications), with respect to that pervasive hypothesis. Advocates "preach to the choir" (as it were) and appeal greatly to receptive reporters in the popular media as they continue their mission to keep the language hypothesis intact. It appears that most applied bee researchers now ignore the whole issue --- knowing full well that neither they nor beekeepers have profited from the promises inherent in the original hypothesis (I can furnish a brief summary of those original promises for anyone interested). Thus, this issue has far more interesting implications than simply whether an insect can have a language; instead, it revolves about how we do science, a topic covered in the following publication: 1997 Wenner, A.M. The role of controversy in animal behavior. Pages 3-37 in Greenberg, C. and E. Tobach (eds). Comparative Psychology of Invertebrates:The Field and Laboratory Study of Insect Behavior. Garland Publishing, New York. Unfortunately, the media all too readily embraces exotic explanations --- a major part of the problem. How long will the impasse last (the existence of two parallel worlds)? One can find some input on that question in the following publication: 1998 Wenner, A.M. Honey bee "dance language" controversy. Pages 823-836 in Greenberg, C. and M. Hara, (eds.), Comparative Psychology: A Handbook. Garland Publishing, New York. Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 963-8508 (home phone) 967 Garcia Road (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 **************************************************************************** ********** * * "The most difficult task of the scientist is to suspend judgment about what is * true and what is not." * (Susan Cozzens, 1985) * **************************************************************************** ********** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 13:38:34 -0400 Reply-To: BobCan@TDPI.Com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bob Subject: Honey Extractors MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was looking into purchasing an extractor and was looking for some advice. I have 10 hives and look at this as a hobby. I don't mind cranking although if I could find an extractor for a small amount more with a motor I would spend the extra money. Is there a brand/manufacture that someone might recommend for a hobbyist?