From MAILER-DAEMON Fri Sep 17 12:52:27 1999 Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27391 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:52:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA11159 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:52:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199909171652.MAA11159@listserv.albany.edu> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:52:22 -0400 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8d)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG9909C" To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Content-Length: 19358 Lines: 415 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:41:29 -0400 Reply-To: admin@beeworks.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: FGMO helped my bees In-Reply-To: <199909141305.JAA09967@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 14 Sep 99, at 8:48, Bill Truesdell wrote: > The few real tests of FGMO still seem to indicate it does not > work. And after reading the emails from those who put their faith > in essential oils and lost everything, I will stay with Apistan, > which is much more benign than formic acid. I go with the most > benign but effective pesticide. If FGMO, which is being used as a > pesticide, can be show to work, I would use it today. It would appear my recent post regarding our use of FGMO was a total waste of time, or could it be a little head in sand from Bill T. ;-)) As far as I'm concerned anything which reduces the impact of Varroa on my bees... WORKS....! Having seen a drop test from a customers hive with no treatment, and the diference in the drop test performed by us on a Drone mother hive, you would use FGMO as well. It stands to reason, my hives with only 100 mites per drop test, will winter considerably better than our customers with thousands of mites per drop test. The damage to his bees is scary and I won't be suprised if he has bad winter losses. ***************************************** The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada.L3V 6H1. Phone (705)326 7171 Fax (705)325 3461 David Eyre, e-mail http://www.beeworks.com This months special:-Vest/veil combination **************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:41:29 -0400 Reply-To: admin@beeworks.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Misuse of strips In-Reply-To: <199909121650.MAA14605@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 12 Sep 99, at 10:59, Al wrote: > hint of attacking the person there are times their actions need to be > rebuked. Black and white issues are all over the place and we just love to > dodge them by claiming shades of grey. What David did was in error, he > even comes to that conclusion in the post that started all of this. David > was "in the dark" because he had been given bad information. I think he > did his best to act on the information given, but he was doomed from the > start. That is why this list is here, to bring about the sharing of > information. Now that David has the correct information, he would not > repeat the actions. To put it into another light, David has confessed > (agreed) his error and has repented (turned) from the error, it is now > time to forget the transgression. > Thanks you all for the use of the pulpit. Whoa, back up the bus on this one. I wasn't 'in the dark' on this matter, quite the reverse. I knew precisely what I was doing, and far from being 'repentant', you can be sure if I have to, I'll do it again. My aim is to keep my bees alive, not to be so enamoured with labels that I would risk the life of a hive to conform to others standards. The Indians have a very good saying, " Don't criticise a man till you've walked a mile in his moccasins" might be worth thinking about!! ***************************************** The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada.L3V 6H1. Phone (705)326 7171 Fax (705)325 3461 David Eyre, e-mail http://www.beeworks.com This months special:-Vest/veil combination **************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 10:27:25 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ed Costanza Subject: AHB - Teaching safety to children MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit School classrooms have been coming to our apple orchard for field trips and orchard tours for years now. We give them a tour of our processing plant, a hay ride and then a beekeeping demonstration that includes our observation bee hives. We bring out supers to show the children what honey looks like before we extract and then we give an extracting demonstration. A few bees always find a way to join in on the fun the second they smell the honey. Even a vew wasps and bumble bees show up for the occassion. These stray bees gives us a chance to show the students that foraging bees are not a danger to anyone unless you try to pick it up or if they accidently sit on one (we use a little humor here and throughout our tours). We had one child stung last year out of 2,000 students. He accidently put his hand on a bee that was gathering honey from a honey stix thrown on the ground. The questions always come up about killer bees (African bees). The students, teachers and parents want to know what they can do if they were to encounter such a situation that would possibly put them in danger. I have recently encountered two very aggressive hives in my bee yards. One was so agressive that it made me retreat. My pant legs were so covered with crawling bees I could hardly see the fabric, and my hands and body were dotted with clinging bees trying to penetrate the cloth. Bees were furiously striking at my veiled face and upper torso that it sounded like I was in the middle of a small hail storm. I puffed my smoker in the air all about me as I backed up a considerable distance from the bee yard. This did not discourage the attackers and the agressive bees continued their fierce attack. I ducked for cover in a dark building. This seemed to help tremendously as the flying bees sought the light from outdoors. Most bees seem to return to the hive, but a handful still waited outside. I ducked out a back door and a few of the bees still found me and continued the fight. I was greatful that day that I was fully protected when I encountered this hive. What would have happened if I hadn't been? Based upon this experience, I decided to seek thoughts and answers from the list as to what advice you would give to a person, young or old, were they to encounter agressive bees? Ed Costanza ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 11:07:37 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: FGMO helped my bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Eyre wrote: > It would appear my recent post regarding our use of FGMO was a total > waste of time, or could it be a little head in sand from Bill T. ;-)) >As far as I'm concerned anything which reduces the impact of Varroa > on my bees... WORKS....! > Only one question. Do you also use Apistan or other varroa treatment such as Formic Acid in additon to FGMO, or are you onlyusing FGMO? Bill T ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 11:28:36 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: FGMO helped my bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry for asking David if he used Apistan strips. Did a quick search of the archives and found that David wrote- "I had to leave our strips in last year and we've had no problems. As an aside when Varroa first hit Ontario it was advised to leave the strips in for the first winter!" -which was a part of the discussion last month on leaving the strips on all winter. So it seems he uses them. I repeat, until a good study comes along, FGMO is not proven. Many of the posts during the great FGMO flame wars ran along the same path. "It works and I use Apistan and the bees make it through the winter so it was because of FGMO." Often the use of Apistan was omitted until pressed and then admitted. The only studys I have seen that were independent of Dr. R showed FGMO a failure to control varroa when used by itself. I throw on a oil soaked towel in the hives every year. I also use Apistan every year, but only in the fall. I did not lose hives before I put the towels in and I have not lost any since. But it is more for tracheal mites than varroa. By the way, have you heard about lice droppings, very hard to accumulate, but I know someone who knows someone who says it kills varroa on contact and has not lost a hive to varroa since he started using it and Apistan strips. I will conduct a study this winter using lice droppings and let you know how well my bees overwinter. Probably apply it at the same time I put in the Apistan strips. Bill T ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 10:57:07 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Anglin Subject: Re: FGMO helped my bees/ Pure Beeswax? Comments: To: BEE-L@cnsibm.albany.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am concerned with FGMO mixing with the wax in a hive, and in effect, contaminating the beeswax with mineral oil. We know the two mix and melt together- at what level will the level of adulteration cause rendered beeswax to be softer, sticker or whatever? When adding other oils to a hive, we are contaminating the wax with another substance- It may (or may not) be more benign than Fluvalinate, but it is still a contaminate. Can we consider this FGMO/beeswax any purer than if we threw a little paraffin into the mix?? Ellen Anglin ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 12:59:10 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Lipscomb, Al" Subject: Mite population increase in one hive. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I have switched my treatment plan from "spring and fall", to what I hope is a correct Integrated Pest Management (IPM) system. At this time I have one hive that, according to my sticky board, has a higher than desired mite population (I still have several hives that still do not show any mite populations, which I think is strange). Since I still have supers on the hive I am going to avoid ANY chemical treatment. That would include FGMO. While FGMO is very safe for human consumption I would not want to find out that while extracting I have contaminated the honey. What I have done is put a closed screen bottom board in place. This unit is the one that sits above the normal bottom board and leaves dead space for the mites to drop into. I think that this one is the best design for my area. It should help keep the small ants out of the hive, yet not let the mites back up. I have also added an upper entrance using an Imirie Shim between the supers. My thoughts are that the mite drop losses will help slow the population growth. The upper entrance will reduce the number of times that bees are moving through the brood area. If older bees never have to move down to the brood chamber there is a better chance that the adult mites will not get near brood when reproduction time comes around. If I can slow the growth rate of the mite population with these methods I can wait a little longer before I need to treat with another agent. This treatment will be with Apistan(R), but I am hoping that we will have a solid alternative (not cumophos) by next spring. Also it appears that there is going to be more mite tolerant queens available for purchase next year. Both queens from Russian stock as well as "survivor" queens. I like the "survivor" stock as they have had a little more of a test period. Since these bees have not been treated for Varroa mites and have still survived we can hope that they have some greater tolerance for the mites. If this translates into less frequent treatment then all the better. Thoughts? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 17:29:25 -0400 Reply-To: mpalmer@together.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Palmer Organization: French Hill Apiaries Subject: passing of Charles Mraz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Middlebury, Vermont Charles Mraz, age 94, died early Monday morning at his home, surrounded by his family, following a brief illness. Charles was born on July 26, 1905 in Woodside New York City, son of Karl and Maris Mraz. Charles moved to Middlebury in 1928 and established Champlain Valley Apiaries. He became a world renowned beekeeper and maintained New England's largest apiary for over 60 years. He traveled to South and Central America, Europe, Asia, and the Middle East as a consultant on beekeeping methods and technology. In 1992, the American Beekeeping Federation recognized Charles among the five most distinguished beekeepers in this country for his advances in commercial beekeeping. He was a columnist and contributing writer for "Gleanings in Bee Culture" and the "American Bee Journal". respectively. Charles was recognized in this country as the pioneer of bee venom therapy, the use of bee stings to treat autoimmune diseases. He initiated clinical research with scientists at Sloan-Kettering Institute and Walter Reed Army Institute. He established the standard for purity for dried whole venom for the FDA and was the supplier of venom to pharmaceutical companies throughout the world. He was a founding member and Executive Director of the American Apitherapy Society. Charles earned the gratitude of thpusands of people who traveled to his home for bee venom treatments or met him at apitherapy conferences around the country. In 1994 he authored "Health and the Honey Bee", a recounting of his experience with bee venom therapy. Charles was an avid gardener and dedicated to the practice of organic farming. He was a president and board member of the Natural Food and Farming Association, the precursor to the Northern Organic Farming Association. Memorial contributions may be made to American Apitheripy Society, 5370 Carmel Rd., Hillsboro, Ohio, 45133. I thought the list should know of the passing of "Charlie." He was a great man, and will be missed by all. Mike ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 21:12:43 -0400 Reply-To: beeman@kingston.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: kent stienburg Subject: Re: passing of Charles Mraz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have always found it ironic that it takes the passing on of someone before you find out what an amazing contribution to beekeeping and humanity that person made, in this case Charles Mraz. It's sad and humbling when you stop and think of the magnitude of people on this list who have made a contribution and yet most aren't noticed till they're gone. Kent ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 18:33:59 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "W. G. Miller" Subject: A nasty hive (Re: AHB - Teaching safety to children) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The prescription for a nasty hive is to requeen it with gentler stock. Unfortunately, there is no nastier job in beekeeping. The best advice I can give for making such a hive a little easier to work is to split the hive into two smaller units (no need to find out immediately which one has the queen). Work in the middle of a cool afternoon if possible. Each of the two sub-hives will be less populous and will tend to be easier to work. Once the queen is found and replaced, the hives can be reunited. W. G. miller Gaithersburg, MD ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 00:33:29 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: FGMO Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello All I have followed the recent discussion on FGMO. I do remember around two years ago that Dr R to whom many references have been made, was continually on the list extolling the virtues of FGMO. Now there is a deafening silence from the same Dr R. Could the silence be the most eloquent testimony possible to the failure of the FGMO approach? Or would the good doctor be kind enough to tell us to the contrary if such be the case? I look forward to hearing from Dr R so that this debate can be assisted either way. But meantime, have we now got a new generation of Dr R's who, whilst sharing the genuine genuine belief of Dr R in FGMO because of its seductively eco friendly regime, are merely re running the anecdotal approach, and will eventually disappear into silence, because their genuine beliefs, like those of Dr R are fundamentally flawed?. Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park, Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland Tel + 353 1 289 5269 Fax + 353 1 289 99