From MAILER-DAEMON Sun Feb 13 07:12:56 2000 Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA08303 for ; Sun, 13 Feb 2000 07:12:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02301 for ; Sun, 13 Feb 2000 07:12:54 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200002131212.HAA02301@listserv.albany.edu> Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 07:12:54 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8d)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG9910A" To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Content-Length: 132291 Lines: 2926 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 17:09:02 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Accidents In-Reply-To: <199909302213.SAA23769@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > ...do these modern aids in lifting remove you from the 'splash zone'? Well, the drum is a very sturdy one with small, standard sized bungs only, and the platform very steady. No glass to cut anyone. And we had an open head drum of water and buckets within ten feet. > as for walking across the rough ground of an orchard carrying a Nassenheider > evaporator My feelings about any treatment that involves transporting quantities of liquid acid away from a controlled and planned work zone, or which extends the period of time or increases the number of environmental factors encountered while the liquid acid is being sored and transported. > which if I remember correctly contains about 500cc of 65% > dilution formic acid. Depends on the treatment. Quoting the BEE-L logs after a 30 msecond search on Nassenheider at the site in my signature below: "I have a Nassenheider Evaporator in my hand-- and the instructions -- as I write this. The Nassenheider Evaparator requires either 100 cm2 or 150 cm2 (ml) of 60% formic. Two such units must be used if there is brood in 2 chambers such there is in Alberta in the fall. This totals 200-300 ml of 60% formic". > That is for the 65% dilution Allen, were you taking these precautions when > you were handling the concentrated stuff? I confess, no. Not these exact precautions, but we did take reasonable precautions and were very very careful and thought everything through in advance. We were outdoors with a good breeze, and fumes were not apparent, except that we did catch occasional light whiffs of the acid. FWIW, I have put my fingers in the acid momentarily, followed by a thorough washing with plain water and am satisfied that such contact does not cause harm. I would be very concerned about head or body contact, however. > ...I was totally in support of the formic acid pads known > as Illertissener Milbenplatte or IMP pads... produced commercially in 'safe' > conditions... Good idea. > But before continuing down your formic acid path Allen may I inform you of > what I consider is the greatest cause of ACCIDENTS - tiredness, so when you > are trundling towards the umpteenth hive please bear this in mind. Thanks, Ken. We are aware, and ever alert. But, there are no guarantees in life... allen ----- See if your questions have been answered in over a decade of discussions. BEE-L archives & more: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Bee-l.htm Search sci.agriculture.beekeeping at http://www.deja.com/ or visit http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee to access both on the same page. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 13:05:21 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Hugo Thone Organization: Alcatel Telecom Subject: Re: Accidents MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Allen Dick wrote: > > write this. The Nassenheider Evaparator requires either 100 cm2 or 150 cm2 > (ml) of 60% formic. 100 cm2 or 150 cm2 (ml) ???? Are you living in another dimension ? cheers, Hugo -- Hugo Thone (VJ93) email htho@se.bel.alcatel.be Alcatel Telecom phone (32) 3 240 94 52 F. Wellesplein 1 fax (32) 3 240 99 49 B2018 - Antwerpen ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 07:49:15 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Honey in the medical news MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A nice article on the work of Nick's friends in NZ using honey to treat wounds and burns- on Dr. Koop's site. Here is the link. Not much new but good PR for honey. http://www.drkoop.com/news/stories/september/honey.html Bill T Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 06:10:40 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Accidents In-Reply-To: <199910011127.HAA11659@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Allen Dick wrote: > > The Nassenheider Evaparator requires either 100 cm2 or 150 cm2 > > (ml) of 60% formic. > 100 cm2 or 150 cm2 (ml) ???? Are you living in another dimension ? Hehehe. Very observant. I was quoting from the logs. And guess whom I was quoting? Myself, more or less quoting the Nassenheider instructions! Actually I just now reviewed the instruction sheets (available from the 'varroa and formic' link at http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee) and the error is mine. Interestingly enough, no one caught it in the original post. And, of course you are right there is only an infinitesimal amount of acid in 100 cm2 or 150cm2. That should bee '100 cm3 or 150 cm3'. Which is about the same as 100 ml or 150 ml, and reasonably close to 90g or 135g OF 60% formic, which is the concentration they recommended at the time the instructions were written. In re-reading the Nassenheider instructions from several years back, I notice quite a discrepancy in the amounts of formic they discuss on various pages. It seems to vary from sheet to sheet, as does the duration of treatment. I imagine they now have newer documentation. Anyhow, thanks for the humourous tuneup. One of these days I WILL make a post with zero errurz. allen ----- See if your questions have been answered in over a decade of discussions. BEE-L archives & more: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Bee-l.htm Search sci.agriculture.beekeeping at http://www.deja.com/ or visit http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee to access both on the same page. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 08:22:44 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Accidents MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Given Allen's recent track history he could get a job with NASA! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 07:53:16 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: Russian bees and varroa Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Jean-Marie Van Dyck wrote (in part): >Ok! It is urgent to find bees tolerant to Varroa. But perhaps the problem >can be solved differently: It could be Varroa which adapts and does not >kill any more the colonies that it infects, for example: while becoming >much less prolific. By using chemical methods, we are killing ALL >Varroas, the >killers of bees and those which could adapt to the bees ... That assessment is quite correct --- evolution works on both host and on parasite at the same time. Since mites have a shorter generation time than bees, we could expect that mites might well become less of a problem sooner than it would be for bees to develop a resistance to the mites. The "resistant" Russian bees might be harboring a less virulent mite. The same seems to be true here in Santa Barbara and elsewhere in California. Feral colonies now abound, especially in locations not near large scale beekeeping operations. That I why I published the following letter in the AMERICAN BEE JOURNAL (September issue): ********** Colony Survival: A Better Bee or a Milder Mite? The use of any poison to control varroa serves only as a stopgap measure. That is why we have seen much research effort these past decades, world-wide, to seek or breed a European honey bee strain resistant to those mites. At the same time, we curiously have colony survival in some remote regions where neither chemical treatments nor managed colonies exist. A question thus arises: Is the honey bee colony rebound in remote areas due to survival of mite resistant bee colonies or to natural selection toward a weaker strain of varroa mites? Consider the situation here in Santa Barbara, a city that stretches from the ocean halfway up to the top of the nearly mile high mountain range close behind. Our city also has an ordinance against beekeeping. Behind Santa Barbara one finds a vast area of U.S. National Forest and designated wilderness areas. Few or no roads exist in most of that area. The constant threat of wildfires means that few beekeepers would risk using locations there - if they could obtain permission. Hence, any resurgence of colonies in that area would not likely have arisen by swarms escaping from managed colonies. After varroa mites first arrived in the late 1980s in the Santa Barbara area, honey bee visitation to blossoms in urban gardens plummeted to a near absence, as it did in the back country. However, feral honey bee colonies have rebounded in both areas these past few years, with documented survival of some colonies over several years and a large number of swarms reported by residents during the last two years. A two story shingled-sided Boy Scout house in Manning Park, for example, currently has eight colonies in its walls. Inspection of a few of the older surviving feral colonies has revealed a low incidence of varroa mite infestation, with most of the reproduction in drone cells and very little in worker cells. While many might favor the conclusion that feral bee colonies in this area may have become resistant to varroa mites, one can consider another hypothesis - milder mites. Varroa mites go through many generations each year, and we apparently have more one strain in this country already. Even with brother-sister matings, a strong selection pressure might have impacted the varroa mites more than honey bees in our vast unpopulated area; the genetically most lethal mites could have been outcompeted by a less virulent strain. If so, feral colonies and mites in our back country could have achieved an accommodation due to a change in the biology or genetic strain of the varroa mites rather than (or as well as) in the honey bees. One can see where this thread might lead. We could perhaps exploit a weak strain of varroa mites as well as strive to find a mite tolerant strain of honey bees. Time is of the essence in our area, however; the Africanized bees might well be here within a year ! Adrian M. Wenner (805) 963-8508 (home phone) 967 Garcia Road (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 **************************************************************************** ******* * * "...it is lamentable how each man draws his own different conclusions from * the very same fact." * * Charles Darwin, in a letter to Alfred Russel Wallace (1 May 1857) * **************************************************************************** ******* ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 12:43:26 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Lipscomb, Al" Subject: Re: Russian bees and varroa MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >After varroa mites first arrived in the late 1980s in the Santa Barbara >area, honey bee visitation to blossoms in urban gardens plummeted to a near >absence, as it did in the back country. However, feral honey bee colonies >have rebounded in both areas these past few years, with documented survival >of some colonies over several years and a large number of swarms reported >by residents during the last two years. A two story shingled-sided Boy >Scout house in Manning Park, for example, currently has eight colonies in >its walls. Inspection of a few of the older surviving feral colonies has >revealed a low incidence of varroa mite infestation, with most of the >reproduction in drone cells and very little in worker cells. I wonder if the practice of limiting drone production in hives has helped select for Varroa that are more "willing" to use worker brood? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 14:15:34 -0400 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Organization: ACB Dept., Univ of Michigan Subject: Resistant bees or mild mites? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Adrian Wenner suggests that an alternative to honey bees becoming resistant to mite parasitism would be a mite that is sublethal to bees (at least to a colony of bees). How would this work? It seems to me that at least two alternatives might be possible: 1) The mites would restrict their activity to drones, and not enter worker cells at all. This would result in the parasitized colony succeeding very well - but what of future generations? It would be unlikely that the mites would attack only the drones least suitable for genetic improvement, and that in all likelihood most of the drones would be damaged and unable or poorly able to fly. What would the result be for the next generation? Would queens still be able to mate with superb drones? Would any drones be left at all? This alternative seems still quite dangerous to honey bee survival. or 2) The mites would feed on body parts less important for flying. What do we know about the feeding habits of varroa on brood? Do they favor one body part over another? Is there any data that shows what happens to a bee after different parts have been chewed upon in the pupal stage by mites? It would seem a reasonable hypothesis that a milder mite would be one that preferred to dine upon abdominal regions rather than upon those destined to become a wing or leg. One of the saddest sights I've seen in the beeyard is hundreds of twisty-winged bees crawling around in the grass, unable to fly and not allowed back in the hive. Maybe their sisters, also bitten by mites but in a different place, are able to function normally. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 12:34:56 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: FW: UK : New Fears over GM Crops MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: UK : New Fears over GM Crops From: Godfrey Bartlett Date: 1999/09/30 Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping UK : Shock surprise! UK Government finds that Bees carry GM-comtaminated pollen < 3 miles! The UK Government says it will review the distances it allows between genetically-modified (GM) and other crops after tests showed GM pollen could travel as far as 4.5 kilometres (2.7 miles). The current isolation barriers mean GM crops must be more than 50 metres from conventional crops and 200 metres from organic fields. But a monitoring exercise set up by the pressure group Friends of the Earth and the BBC's Newsnight programme found pollen travelled up to 20 times those distances. Tests around a GM trial site at Watlington in Oxfordshire showed that airborne pollen had carried distances of up to 475 metres. Pollen carried by bees had reached beehives at distances between 500 metres and 4.5 kilometres from the site. The Environment Minister, Michael Meacher, told the BBC: "I accept we need to look at it again. They may need to be larger than they are at the present time. We need to look at this evidence which has been presented and make a decision." Although it has been known for a long time that pollen can travel many tens of kilometres, this is the first study looking specifically at the movement of GM pollen. It will be useful in assessing the impact of the farm-scale trials now underway in the UK. The work was carried out during June and July by the national Pollen Research Unit and a bee specialist. With pollen from oilseed rape capable of surviving for up to three days, there is concern that it could fertilise compatible species. "The commercialisation of these crops should not take place until we have enough information to make decisions about whether they will have an effect on biodiversity and in our countryside," said Brian Johnson of English Nature. The study is the first to find GM pollen in beehives. Honey packers do their own tests for it, but none has yet been discovered. "Most of the honey comes from commercial beekeepers and they're already well used to moving their hives around to follow the various crops, and they will avoid GM sites," said Laurie Keys of the Honey Association, "Of course, if it gets more widespread and extends beyond more than just a few trial sites, then it would be more of a concern." Friends of the Earth is calling for the government to abandon the whole GM trials programme. ---------- Godfrey Bartlett Essex UK. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ You can view this message and the related discussion by following this link: http://www.deja.com/%5bST_rn%3dmd%5d/dnquery.xp?search=thread&svcclass=dnserver& recnum=%3c37F3BCDE.83CDB3E8@nospamqichina.demon.co.uk%3e%231/1 ----- See if your questions have been answered in over a decade of discussions. BEE-L archives & more: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Bee-l.htm Search sci.agriculture.beekeeping at http://www.deja.com/ or visit http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee to access both on the same page. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 16:26:05 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Scott Moser Subject: HFCS vs. Sugar Syrup MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings all, Due to the dry spell around the St. Louis area, several of my hives were on the light side. I wanted to increase the weight, so I began feeding the recommended 2:1 sugar syrup in baggie feeders. I then switched to High Fructose Corn Syrup because the price was 1/3 that of sugar. It was recommended to mix 3 parts water to 1 part HFCS. I made the first batch of it like that and added about 2 cups of old dark honey I extracted last fall. It seemed too weak, so I started mixing 2:1, and adding about the same amount of honey. Question is, they don't seem to use 2 quarts of HFCS as fast as 2 quarts of sugar syrup. Is this normal? If not, how can I increase the intake to get as much stored for the winter as possible. I don't want to have to rely entirely on candy trays this winter. Feel free to e mail me direct. Thanks, Scott Moser ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 00:39:04 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: peter dillon Subject: Re: FW: UK : New Fears over GM Crops MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bonjour, Laurie keys apparently states that beekeepers avoid G.M.O. sites- a bit difficult here in France as the authorities refuse to divulge the position of such sites to interested parties such as Beekeepers. Long live open government!! Best wishes to all Peter. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 01:32:33 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bernie Duggan Subject: Re: Take home message from Apimondia In-Reply-To: <199909301359.JAA07578@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello Tom, >I have no problem with using the correct tools in fighting varroa, or any >other pest, but when my sword bends in my hands what can I do?. Fashion a new sword or re-forge your old one! >The problem is that the tools we are using to fight varroa are making the >enemy invulnerable. It seems to me to be a case of, 'we are damned if we >treat and damned if we don't'. So can anybody tell me what do we do next?. >Or is there nothing we can do but wait for a 'silver bullet', and hope that >it arrives whilst there are still bees to treat. By carefully attending to informed opinion and acting on it, I hope to be part of the making of the silver bullet. >I, in common with Irish beekeepers, am presently awaiting the first strike >of varroa in my apiaries. I daresay that beekeepers in Australia, New >Zealand and Hawaii are doing the same thing. I am using the approved >chemical to detect the appearance of the pest. But if I am fighting a >resistant pest, as is now rapidly appearing to be the case, then the battle >is lost before it starts. I readily understand your apprehension:- Varroa was first diagnosed (4th Apr 1992) in the UK at Cockington apiary - the experimental apiary of South Devon Beekeepers (my local association) which is run on exemplary lines. This was my first year as a beekeeper and I felt a terrible sense of hopelessness. I have been impressed by the diligence and optimistic attitude of my colleagues in adopting a variety of control methods, chemical and physical (e.g. bait drone-comb). Varroa is a pain in the arse but like many other bee-afflictions I believe it will be contained by good husbandry rather than being eradicated. >It is not in my nature to sound so negative, You sound pretty normal in the circumstances >But I am ever hopeful That's my boy! >...it would seem that nothing short of a >miracle will do. Penicillin was repeatedly described as miraculous when it was first used. I wouldn't care to argue about how the Deity works his wonders! Just sucking my first egg, Regards, Bernie Duggan White Rock Ogwell Cross Denbury Devon England ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 19:15:13 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: HFCS vs. Sugar Syrup In-Reply-To: <199910012221.SAA00148@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > ... I then switched to High > Fructose Corn Syrup because the price was 1/3 that of sugar. It was > recommended to mix 3 parts water to 1 part HFCS...It seemed too weak, > so I started mixing 2:1, and adding about the same amount of honey...etc I think someone gave you a bum steer and got it backwards. You want 3 parts of HFCS and one part of water. But, at this time of year, if granulation due to cool weather is not a problem, you can use HFCS straight. allen PS: HFCS is good winter feed, but sucrose is apparently better in terms of bee longevity. ----- See if your questions have been answered in over a decade of discussions. BEE-L archives & more: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Bee-l.htm Search sci.agriculture.beekeeping at http://www.deja.com/ or visit http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee to access both on the same page. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 21:50:39 -0400 Reply-To: admin@beeworks.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Formic. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT WARNING. Just recently there has been a number of posts regarding Formic Acid, some of which I find very worrisome to say the least. Apart from the very cavalier approach regarding the handling of an extremely dangerous product, plus the complete screwup regarding the method of measurement, *caution* should be the password. Firstly, cms or centimeters in it's full term, is a measurement of distance, mls or milliliters is a measurement of liquid, the two are not interchangeable. By squaring (cms2) or cubing (cms3) does not convert one to the other. The only analogy I can employ is, feet and yards do not translate to pints and gallons. We were requested recently to raise the level of Bee-L to University standards, this is no higher than Elementry School chemistry level. My advice, stick to the measurement you're accustomed to, Imperial or metric, if you're not sure, look it up. Secondly, Formic Acid is only used as a spring treatment, intended to kill mites within the brood cells, it should not be used in the fall. To do so would risk driving the bees out of the hive (under some conditions) at a time when clustering should be encouraged. Also it is still uncertain that 60% or even 65% acid is totally safe with all queens, and has been known to cause queen loss. Needless to say losing a queen so late in the season spells certain death to the hive you're busy trying to save. An execise in futility!! Finally, Ken Hoare is quite correct. Formic acid will and does take your skin off, someone else states it's up there with sulphuric acid (battery acid) and only a fool handles that without due care and attention. There are better and *softer* treatments available. Just think, if it does that to you, what's it doing to your bees? ***************************************** The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada.L3V 6H1. Phone (705)326 7171 Fax (705)325 3461 David Eyre, e-mail http://www.beeworks.com This months special:-Vest/veil combination **************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 03:26:41 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Anglin Subject: Re: re Formic / Oxalic Acids MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We use formic acid in the Textile Lab I work in- 85% concentration. (If I recall correctly- we purchase it in the concentration we use because handing, diluting and and rebottling it is too hazardous.) It is handled only inside a fume hood, and the wearer must have on heavy gloves, a full length plastic apron, and a full face shield. 75% formic will dissolve nylon- It can also damage acrylic and may damage other plastics when concentrated . It is not safe to assume that all plastics are impervious to all acids-get the wrong types together and your containers may break down in contact with the acid. The chemical supply houses use special plastics in their chemical handling containers, and special acid resistant waste containers are required for safe disposal of waste. Formic is nasty stuff- much worse in some ways than sulfuric acid, which we use by the gallon. I have gotten splashed on the arm with 70% sulfuric acid, and tho I took my time getting to the sink, felt little discomfort beyond a slight itching. The fumes alone of formic acid are enough to cause my eyes to tear, and my throat to sting. For more info on acid resistant safely equipment try Fischer scientific http://www.fishersci.com They have a full MSDs on formic acid- You should read this if you are working with the stuff. Here is a section (Copied directly) of the MSDS: EMERGENCY OVERVIEW Appearance: Not available. Flash Point: 69 deg C. Danger! Corrosive. Harmful. Combustible liquid.Hygroscopic. Heat sensitive. Causes eye and skin burns. Causesdigestive and respiratory tract burns. Target Organs: None. Potential Health Effects Eye: Causes severe eye burns. May cause conjunctivitis. Lachrymator. Causes redness and pain. Lachrymator. Skin: Causes skin burns. Causes redness and pain. Ingestion: Harmful if swallowed. May cause kidney damage. May cause severe digestive tract irritation with abdominal pain, nausea, vomiting and diarrhea. May cause burns to the digestive tract. Inhalation: May cause irritation of the respiratory tract with burning pain in the nose and throat, coughing, wheezing, shortness of breath and pulmonary edema. Causes chemical burns to the respiratory tract. Chronic: Not available. Section 4 - First Aid Measures Eyes: Immediately flush eyes with plenty of water for at least 15 minutes, occasionally lifting the upper and lower lids. Get medical aid immediately. Skin: Get medical aid immediately. Immediately flush skin with plenty of soap and water for at least 15 minutes while removing contaminated clothing and shoes. Ingestion: Do NOT induce vomiting. Get medical aid immediately. Wash mouth out with water. Give milk of magnesia. Inhalation: Get medical aid immediately. If not breathing, give artificial respiration. If breathing is difficult, give oxygen. Notes to Physician: Treat symptomatically and supportively. Ellen Anglin ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 21:45:35 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: EMakovec@AOL.COM Subject: What disease killed my bees? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I checked my bees today and found bad news. One of my three colonies, which was very prosperous and crowded in July, has all but died. It's down to a few hunderd bees (and I suspect those are robbers). The only evidence I see of disease are a few uncapped brood that are shriveled on the sides of their cells. They do not look dark and crusted like I have read of American foulbrood. The hive next to it is relatively strong, but with very little honey stores (after a very dry summer). There is some evidence of the shriveled brood, though most of the brood look healthy. What am I looking at? What is the best way to save the second colony? And is it safe to use the empty hive in the Spring, or do I need to disinfect it somehow? Any help would be appreciated. Eugene Makovec Kirkwood, MO ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 11:06:36 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Re: Take home message from Apimondia Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello All Thanks to all who took the time and trouble to answer the misgivings of this Irish beekeeper on the subject of resistant mites. I am heartened by the positive attitudes by most of the members. I trust that this eventually translates into a viable long lasting solution to varroa. But we must wait and see. One message however did come across to me. See the situation for what it is, learn as much as you can about varroa, and how to fight the pest. Learn how to use alternative treatments working together to put maximum pressure on the mites, and minimum pressure on the bees. I suppose that we are now facing into a fully scientific approach to beekeeping. That being the case so be it. I for one am prepared to do what must be done to remain a beekeeper. I will feed greedily on every scrap of information I can possibly put my hands on when it comes to varroa. Then when the pest arrives I will hopefully not make too many mistakes in dealing with it. Thanks to this wonderful list for making this knowledge available to us all. Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park, Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland Tel + 353 1 289 5269 Fax + 353 1 289 9940 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 08:09:03 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: re Formic / Oxalic Acids MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ellens post is excellent because it addresses Formic Acid specifically. However, in other posts there are general references to acids which lump their properties together. Mine was one. I listed the strengths, actually the ph relationships, of Formic, Oxalic and Sulfuric. Problem is, that is not enough, and I apologize for the post. Each Acid has its own characteristics. Formic appears nonpoisonous while Oxalic is. We eat acetic and tout honey and vinegar as a folk remedy. You can get serious burns with a weak acid, depending on the chemical activity of the acid. That goes for the vapors. Some acids can be stored in plastic. Some will eat right through it. When I was in graduate school we would be reminded of the dangers of different chemicals by the deaths of chemists working on them. And these were experienced professionals working with all precautions. I knew of two working in my discipline. We have not even addressed the long term effects of breathing small amounts of the vapors or minor skin contact. Both can lead to serious problems later. Bill T Bath, Me ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 08:22:21 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: HFCS vs. Sugar Syrup MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Allen Dick wrote: > PS: HFCS is good winter feed, but sucrose is apparently better in terms of bee > longevity. True, by tests run in England many years ago. HCFS was found to be better than honey fed to bees for over wintering. In climates where the bees can have many cleansing flights in the winter, any of them would be fine. You will never notice the difference. Generally the problem is solids that they have to eliminate, hence sugar is best with lesser particulate feeds in order after that. Generally is important here too, because there are other factors. For instance adding tartaric acid or boiling the sugar also leads to greater bee mortalitity. So the chemical makeup of the sugars is important. Bill T Bath., Me ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 22:53:40 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Harry Goudie Subject: Re: Formic. Comments: To: admin@beeworks.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Firstly, cms or centimeters in it's full term, is a measurement of > distance, mls or milliliters is a measurement of liquid, the two are > not interchangeable. By squaring (cms2) or cubing (cms3) does not > convert one to the other. The only analogy I can employ is, feet and > yards do not translate to pints and gallons 1 cubic metre = 1000 litres I think they are therefore interchangeable. Harry ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 13:36:51 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John M Caterino Subject: malathion Comments: To: bee-l@uacsc2.albany.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have several operating hives in Westchester county, and I have heard = that Westchester County is to begin spraying malathion on Monday, = October 4th. I would appreciate any information concerning measures I = could take to protect my hives from this pesticide... Thanks in advance = to any replies... John Caterino FIATSCO@Bestweb.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 08:40:22 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John and Angie Partin Subject: Re: pollination: 19 of 70 colonies lost pesticide question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit So any way my question is for pollinators what if any are > some pesticides I can suggest to this grower that are not as lethal to the > bees, hes growing squash, peppers, cucumbers, mellons etc. mostly all > vegetabels. > As with our plight with varroa, the number of pesticides are very limited for farmers. Your best bet is to get the farmers to do their spraying when it is dark and the bees aren't flying. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 17:03:17 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Kai-Michael Engfer Subject: German Beekeeping homepage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear all, please note the following URL: http://insel.heim.at/mainau/330017/ There You will find the latest news on the Dark European honeybee, all its queen breeders in Europe and some new, nice photos! Also the Buckfast, Italian, Carniolan, the African and even Cape bees are described. Look at the colourful pics!!! Use the guestbook for Your greetings, Your statements and discussions! Kai-M. Engfer Ostlandstr. 1 D-24247 Mielkendorf ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 22:02:56 -0400 Reply-To: admin@beeworks.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Formic. In-Reply-To: <199910022208.SAA19702@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 2 Oct 99, at 22:53, Harry Goudie wrote: > > interchangeable. By squaring (cms2) or cubing (cms3) does not convert > > one to the other. The only analogy I can employ is, feet and yards do > > not translate to pints and gallons > > 1 cubic metre = 1000 litres > > I think they are therefore interchangeable. Where did that come from? So, reducing your equation 1cubic milimeter = ? mililiters? Sorry dosen't work for me. Where are the math geniuses? The full table of metric measurement of liquids reads:- 10 mililitres = 1 Centilitre 10 Centilitres =1 Litre 10 Litres =1 Dekalitre 10 Dekalitres = 1 Hectolitre 10 Hectolitres =1 Kilolitre So 10x10x10 =1000 which is equal to 1 Kilolitre Most formlae gives metric liquid measurement in ccs or centilitres or smaller quantities in mls or mililiters. If I'm wrong, then I stand corrected, and apologise. ***************************************** The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada.L3V 6H1. Phone (705)326 7171 Fax (705)325 3461 David Eyre, e-mail http://www.beeworks.com This months special:-Vest/veil combination **************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 08:51:17 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John and Angie Partin Subject: Re: malathion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I would appreciate any information concerning measures I = > could take to protect my hives from this pesticide. Have them restrict spraying to night time hours or move your bees out of the spray zone. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 19:09:44 +0100 Reply-To: John Burgess Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Burgess Subject: Re: Resistant bees or mild mites? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: Ted Fischer > or 2) The mites would feed on body parts less important for flying. > What do we know about the feeding habits of varroa on brood? Do they > favor one body part over another? Is there any data that shows what > happens to a bee after different parts have been chewed upon in the > pupal stage by mites >One of the saddest sights I've seen in the beeyard is hundreds of twisty->winged > bees crawling around in the grass, unable to fly and not allowed back in > the hive. Maybe their sisters, also bitten by mites but in a different > place, are able to function normally. Although it is possible that mite bites can cause deformities in bees, the major cause of wing deformities is a virus infection transmitted by the mites. In the absence of viruses in the colony, mite populations of many tens of thousands can be tolerated without significant deformities or colony collapse. The work of Brenda Ball at IACR Rothampstead has identified the viruses responsible, and there is much useful information with photos on their web-site http://www.iacr.bbsrc.ac.uk/res/depts/entnem/research/briangrp/varnorm/tvarn orm.html John Burgess, Editor Gwenynwyr Cymru, The Welsh Beekeeper ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 19:15:08 +0100 Reply-To: John Burgess Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Burgess Subject: Re: Take home message from Apimondia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- >From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd >But if I am fighting a >resistant pest, as is now rapidly appearing to be the case, then the battle >is lost before it starts. Tom, I think you are a bit premature in your pessimism. As far as I know, resistance in Europe is confined to a relatively few areas of the continent, parts of Italy, Switzerland and perhaps France. (I stand to be corrected on the details, and no doubt the situation changes from year to year). There have been no reported cases of resistance in the UK and I would expect, with responsible use of appropriate control methods, it will be many years before resistant mites appear in Ireland. Even then resistance will be to one class of treatment, and alternatives should become available. Don't give up yet! John Burgess, Editor Gwenynwyr Cymru, The Welsh Beekeeper ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 01:14:18 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ken Hoare Subject: Final input on acids MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Ellen Anglin wrote We use formic acid in the Textile Lab I work in - 85% concentration. (If I recall correctly - we purchase it in the concentration we use because handing, diluting and rebottling it is too hazardous.) It is handled only inside a fume hood, and the wearer must have on heavy gloves, a full length plastic apron, and a full face shield.< That's my point Allen, if beekeeping apparel has to resort to these levels of dresswear please inform me of a goat keeping, ostrich farming, or maybe a golfing (no forget the last one) bulletin board as I want no more of this hobby. As for dunking your fingers in the substance to establish positive/negative caustic action I am flabbergasted, have a gas leak - got a box of matches??? Have just returned from the Scottish Beekeepers Association meeting in Edinburgh. A great weekend but why did someone have to ruin it by standing up to say that oxalic acid was the ultimate cure for varroa. They were honest enough to state that treatment much be carried out during broodless periods, i.e. November in Scotland, and probably the majority of the UK, but were slightly dishonest when they stated, "Just a couple of minutes work on each hive". Anyone that can remove 10 to 12 frames in that time, spray them with acid, replace them in the box and put the roof on again I am sure would be welcomed as voluntary labour in any extracting room. And I know of very few, in fact none, beekeepers who wish to carry out a full manipulation during the winter months, surely bees are best left alone at this time. Please note I did state, "from memory" when quoting the capacity of the Nassenheider evaporators, 100 or 500 ml of this very caustic substance, both would fail to improve my already grizzly looks. I want to see the demise of the chemical strips as rapidly as anyone else but until you can find an alternative that is as efficient, as quick and as safe, I will remain with them. So my final input on this subject is to use Bayvarol, Apistan, Checkmite, Apivar or whatever treatment is APPROVED in your country, use it strictly as recommended by the manufacturer, do not attempt shortcuts either to extend there efficiency (have you noted that Ken - but I still plead Not Guilty - probably a waste of time as he has already been sent to the gallows) or reduce capital outlay, and trust that the scientists will soon come up with an environmentally friendly but efficient alternative. Ken Hoare ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1999 20:20:05 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: Formic. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit 1 centimetre cubed = one millilitre. 1 cc in the medical field is 1 milliltre. A "cc" is a cubic centimetre cc n : a metric unit of volume equal to one thousandth of a liter [syn: milliliter, millilitre, mil, ml, cubic centimeter, cubic centimetre] Source: WordNet ® 1.6, © 1997 Princeton University The metric system's whole purpose is to simplify things and this correlation is not a coincidence. >> Firstly, cms or centimeters in it's full term, is a measurement of >> distance, mls or milliliters is a measurement of liquid, the two are >> not interchangeable. > 1 cubic metre = 1000 litres > > I think they are therefore interchangeable. > > Harry > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 05:36:20 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Anglin Subject: Re: Formic. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > 1 cubic metre = 1000 litres > > I think they are therefore interchangeable. > > Harry > Only if it is pure water, at the right temperature. This definition of a litre is defined by the substance- pure water, and temperature of the water, because water expands and contracts with temperature. (Sorry I cannot recall the standard temperature.) Close, but not quite the same when other liquids or temperatures are involved. Ellen ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 17:57:21 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jorn Johanesson Subject: About the metric system! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit 1 cm equal to 1 cm 10 cm equal to 1 dm 100 cm equal to 1m 1cm2 equal to 1cm2 10cm2 equal to 1dm2 or 100 cm2 100cm2 equal to 1m2 or 10000 cm2 1cm3 equal to 1cm3 or 1ml 10cm3 equal to 1000cm3 or 1dm3 or 1l (1000ml) it is also 1kg of water at 20 degrees Celsius. By the way, those of you who got my CD at the apimondia 99 please mail me your postal address so that I can replace the CD, that seems to have got errors by writing the CD. Pollendatabase have errors in the database concerning a bitmap picture and will not load! the Pollendatabase have errors so that it can not be run! For you who can read Danish there is a report abut oxalic acid and its use and effect on Varroa. find it under DBF/tidsskrift that I by accident put on the CD! best regards Jorn Johanesson EDBi = multilingual Beekeeping software since 1987 http://home4.inet.tele.dk/apimo (Denmark) http://apimo.dk (USA) apimo@post4.tele.dk Jorn_Johanesson@apimo.dk ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 13:48:16 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pollinator@AOL.COM Subject: Re: malathion Comments: cc: FIATSCO@bestweb.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/2/99 4:37:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time, FIATSCO@BESTWEB.NET writes: << I have several operating hives in Westchester county, and I have heard = that Westchester County is to begin spraying malathion on Monday, = October 4th. I would appreciate any information concerning measures I = could take to protect my hives from this pesticide... >> 1. Are there still blossoms in your area? Goldenrod and aster? If they are, the bees will be foraging on any nice day. 2. Go to the vector control people at the county and ask for a copy of the label. There are many fomulations of this pesticide. I believe all of them have the following directions: Under Environmental Hazards: "This product is highly toxic to bees exposed to direct treatment on blooming crops or weeds. Do not apply this product or allow it to drift to blooming crops or weeds if bees are visiting the treatment area." It also says, under Directions for Use: "It is a violation of Federal Laws to use this product in a manner inconsistant with its labeling." Nighttime applications are in compliance with the label directions, because bees will not be foraging. Tell them that if they plan to spray during the day, they must have a monitoring system to determine when bees are foraging. Offer to help them monitor. You can easily tell when bees are carrying goldenrod pollen, at the entrance of the hives. Or you can watch them on the flowers. Usually the mornings are cool, this time of year and foraging begins at mid-day, so morning applications would be okay until bees start work. The foraging comes to a peak in late afternoon, but, if it is warm, may continue until dusk. Emphasize that this is the Law; they must have real data on when bees forage, not just guesswork or conjecture. While you are willing to help them comply with the law, you are also willing to swear out a warrant for their arrest if they wilfully disobey the law. And, if they demand that you protect or move the bees, they are stating their intention to ignore the label directions, which is clear evidence of wilfulness in any violations that occur. The flow chart for cotton pesticide applications would be useable here, with minor adaptations. Print it out from: http://www.pollinator.com/cotton/ Get ahold of a camcorder with a clock and date imprint on the film. If they apply in the daytime, while bees are foraging, record the application and the foraging bees. The hardest thing is to catch the planes, as they can move very fast. Then make sure they get prosecuted. Find out who is in charge of pesticide enforcement in your state. You probably can do that online. You may wish to make a preparatory call to them. Most of all, you have to have some backbone. Many beekeepers just cave in. As long as we are willing to run and run and run some more, they will get away with these label violations. And there will eventually be no place for us to run to...... And they'll get away with demanding that hobby beekeepers take time off from their regular jobs, and commercial beekeepers be in a half dozen places at the same time (seizing our property without compensation). After a number of cases where the state pesticide chief would not enforce the law, I filed a civil rights claim on him personally, because his refusal to enforce the law amounted to a seizure of my property without compensation, a violation of the Bill of Rights. Since then, enforcement has improved, though it still has a long way to go. I have not pushed the claim, but he knows I can reactivate it. You may wish to present a Freedom of Information Request to your county vector control people and/or any contractors they hire, asking the material used, a copy of the label, and the procedures used to comply with the bee directions. This helps them clarify the need to do this right. I have also done the same (FOI request) for our pesticide regulator's office regarding any communication or enforcement actions with applicators. I notified them the typical hours bees forage on goldenrod and that applicators must be aware of bee foraging patterns, if they plan any daytime applications. Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Home Page: http://www.pollinator.com The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles): http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 13:52:50 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Scott Moser Subject: Metric Measurement MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings all, Thought the U.S. does not use the metric system of measurement, as a science teacher, I must teach it to my students. When the system was devised after the French Revolution, it was decided that a new measuring system was needed. The first unit that was defined was the meter. It was equal to one ten millionth of the distance between the equator and the North Pole. From the metric measurement of length came the units that defined volume as well. Since volume is actually the amount of space in an area, it was determined that the amount of space in a cube that was 1 cm. X 1 cm. X 1 cm. equaled a milliliter. Hence, 1cc= 1ml. There are 1000 milliliters or 1000 cc's per liter. Tomorrow's lesson will be the difference between mass and weight! Hope this helps. Scott ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 23:06:49 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Converting metric to Imperial was Formic Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello All I have read the discussion on the metric system. The following conversions are on the basis of the British system of reckoning volumes in Imperial gallons - I understand that the USA system is different. I also show my calculations for determining the proportions of sugar and water for making up syrup (sirup). length 10 millimetres = 1 centimetre 100 centimetres or 1000 millimetres = 1 metre 1000 metres = 1 kilometre Volume 1000 cubic centimetres (cc) = 1 litre (A cc is also referred to as a millilitre (ml)) Some equivalents to the other system. 1 litre = 1.74 pints 1 metre = 39.37 inches 1 inch = 25.4 millimetres 1 gallon = 4.54 litres The following formulae will assist in converting one system to the other. Convert millimetres to inches - multiply by .03937 Convert litres to Imperial pints - multiply by 1.762 Convert kilometres to miles - multiply by .625 To convert the other way around multiply by the reciprocal Convert inches to millimetres- multiply by 25.4 Convert Imperial pints to litres - multiply by .5675 Convert miles to kilometres - multiply by 1.6 Some important relationships for beekeepers 1 Imperial Gallon of water weighs 10 pounds 1 Litre of water weighs 1 kilo Making up syrup for bees in the proportion of 2:1 (winter feeding) requires Results in Litres Water Kilos Sugar Litres Syrup Density 1 2 2.24 1.34 Making up syrup for bees in the proportion of 1:1 (stimulative feeding) requires Litres Water Kilos Sugar Litres Syrup Density 2 2 3.24 1.23 Thus to change a syrup from 2:1 to 1:1 required adding 1 litre of water to every 2.24 litres of syrup or 44% of the original volume. How much would 1 gallon of 2:1 syrup weigh? 1 gallon of water weighs 10 lbs. The density of the syrup is 1.33, therefore 1 gallon of syrup weighs 10 X 1.34 = 13.4 lbs. How much would 1 gallon of 1:1 syrup weigh? 1 gallon of water weighs 10 lbs. The density of the syrup is 1.23, therefore 1 gallon of syrup weighs 10 X 1.23 = 12.3 lbs. If you had a gallon of 2:1 syrup, how much water would you have to add to it to turn it into 1:1 syrup?. Answer: 44% or about 3.5 pints. I hope that the above are correct! Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park, Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland Tel + 353 1 289 5269 Fax + 353 1 289 9940 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 23:40:07 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pollinator@AOL.COM Subject: Re: malathion Comments: cc: FIATSCO@bestweb.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A slightly edited copy of the report of a violation near here today, posted here for the Bee List: vmccskl@clemson.edu, Dr. Von H. McCaskill, Department Head SC Dept. of Pesticide Regulation mhood@clemson.edu Dr. Mike Hood SC Apicultural Specialist Shortly after 4pm, I observed an Horry County spray truck making application along the roadsides on Rt 701, north of Conway, and Bakers Chapel Road, and Rt 319. Goldenrod is at peak of bloom and is being heavily worked by both honeybees and bumblebees, as well as many other insects. I observed bees on goldenrod prior to this incident, and afterwards right up to about 5:45 pm. I talked with the applicator, one **********, and he said they were spraying malathion (which prohibits application while bees are foraging). I told him what the label directions said, and that bees were foraging on the goldenrod along the roadsides. I asked him to stop, as the application was in violation of the label, and that, if he continued, it would be a wilful (criminal) violation. He said I'd have to talk with his boss, and I indicated that I would follow him back to talk with him. He stopped spraying, and I followed as he turned toward Conway. Then he turned the sprayer back on and continued to spray. At that point I called for the police and requested that he be cited for wilful violation. The police refused to cite him. Mr. ******* indicated that his boss had told him by radio to continue to spray. I am not sure if he was referring to ********or ******** when he referred to his boss. He listed both names. The police allowed him to continue to perpetrate this criminal misuse. I am notifying the attorney general of the refusal of these police officers to stop a crime in progress. I am requesting a criminal citation against Mr. ******* and his supervisors. I am also requesting a stop and desist order for all county vector control agencies that no further daytime applications in violation be made, and that all daytime applications from henceforth must be based on actual monitoring of the bee forage times, to make certain no violations ever occur again. I would be glad to assist in setting up monitoring programs in each county. These illegal applications compound the environmental devastation that has already occurred. The law protects our pollinators, if enforced, but poor enforcement will lead to loss of our bees, and could even bring famine, if it continues. Dr. McCaskil, you refused to enforce the law in the mosquito spraying after Hurricane Hugo. This cost the farmers millions in lost pollination, and put me at the poverty level, from which I have not been able to recover. I ask you not only to protect our wild and domestic pollinators, but also the productive citizens who are known as beekeepers. To refuse to enforce the label directions is a de facto seizure of the beekeeper's property, in violation of the Bill of Rights. Sincerely yours, David L. Green Pot o'Gold Honey Co. POB 1200, Hemingway, SC 29554-1200 CC: copies will be provided to the media ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 23:16:19 -0600 Reply-To: darn@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: darn@FREENET.EDMONTON.AB.CA Subject: Re: Formic. Comments: To: David Eyre In-Reply-To: <199910031404.KAA29995@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sat, 2 Oct 1999, David Eyre wrote: > Where did that come from? Unaccustomed as I am to publicly defending the metric system, I must point out that it is not really as idiotic as David makes it out to be. It is best to understand the basis of the system. The relevant definitions are as follows: Unit of length is the meter. It was originally supposed to be one ten millionth of quarter the circumference of the earth, was redefined as the distance between two lines scribed on a piece of metal kept in France and redefined again in terms of the wavelength of light emitted by a heated Krypton atom. Unit of mass is the kilogram. It was originally supposed to be the mass of the water contained in a cube whose side was one tenth of a meter and was later redefined as the mass of a particular lump of metal stored in France. Unit of volume is the liter. It was defined as the volume of a cube whose side is one tenth of a meter. The prefix "centi" means one hundredth and the prefix "milli" means one thousandth. The expressions "cc." , "cubic centimeter" and "cm3" all mean the volume of a cube whose side is one centimeter. Ordinary arithmetic shows that one milliliter ( abbreviated ml.) is the same as one cubic centimeter. Personally, I prefer ounces and pounds. Best regards, Donald Aitken Edmonton Alberta Canada ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 08:32:52 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: What disease killed my bees? In-Reply-To: <199910020146.VAA04090@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > ... One of my three colonies, which was very prosperous and crowded in July, > has all but died ... a few uncapped brood that are shriveled on the sides of their > cells. The minimal description given is anadequate for anyone to give a valid diagnosis. It begins to sound like PMS (which is also the diagnosis in vogue). Find someone local who can look at your hive and help (state bee inspector or beekeeping association). > What is the best way to save the second colony? Find out definitively what was the demise of your first hive, and if necessary manage your second hive accordingly. > is it safe to use the empty hive in the Spring, or do I need to disinfect it > somehow? No one can answer this without knowing definitively what was the cause of the hive's demise. Aaron Morris - thinking it'd take a crystal ball on this one. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 14:40:50 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rimantas Zujus Subject: Re: About the metric system! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-4" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jorn Johanesson writes: > > 1cm2 equal to 1cm2 > 10cm2 equal to 1dm2 or 100 cm2 > 100cm2 equal to 1m2 or 10000 cm2 > > 1cm3 equal to 1cm3 or 1ml > 10cm3 equal to 1000cm3 or 1dm3 or 1l (1000ml) it is also 1kg of water at 20 degrees Celsius It seems to me a very strangely written equation when 10=1000 with the same dimension both sides. Maybe, you wanted to say that: 1cm x 1cm equal to 1cm2 10cm x 10cm equal to 1dm2 or 100 cm2 100cm x 100cm equal to 1m2 or 10000 cm2 1cm x 1cm x 1cm equal to 1cm3 or 1ml, and so on... Sincerely Rimantas Zujus ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 15:12:48 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Lino E. Matuka" Subject: Re: Converting metric to Imperial was Formic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi! I've seen your discussion about converting. For those people who has similar problems, see the conversion calculator on http://www.beekeeping.co.nz/convert.htm I find it very helpful. By, Lino E. Matuka Zagreb, Croatia maneci-pneumatika@zg.tel.hr ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:39:50 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Marko Randjic Subject: AFB Once again... In-Reply-To: <199910041236.IAA18866@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hello, I have read about yet another way of treating this disease. I wonder whether it is used in other countries, since it seems to be the most effective of the all previously mentioned. It is best applied on LR hives. Brood frames are moved into honey storage part of the hive (which is separated from the brooding are by a grating). They are replaced by empty frames. A queen bee must then be treated with medicine and it should start to produce healthy brood. Infected larvae are easier detected and expelled by bees, since they are now in honey storage area. This method should be used only by an experienced beekeeper. However, as it was shown by the recent discussion in some countries (including my country, Yugoslavia), any case of foulbrood has to be reported to the local inspector. No treatment is allowed without a veterinarian. Sometimes the infected colonies are destroyed and beekeeper gets the compensation for his loss. Marko ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 21:14:43 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Scott Moser Subject: Irradiation of Equipment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings all, I have read the posts about AFB and I understand that the equipment can be sterilized with radiation, and it kills the AFB spores. Two things I was hoping to get help on. First, how do I go about finding a place to get the equipment irradiated? I am sure that in a city like St. Louis, that is possible, but where do I start looking? The second thing is, even if colonies do not show signs of infection, should the equipment be periodically irradiated, or would this be a waste of money? Thanks all. Scott Moser ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 22:44:52 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: AFB Once again... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Research scientists and entomologists have been trying to find a cure or something to kill the AFB spore for at least 100 years; and our government laboratories as well as university laboratories are STILL TRYING now in 1999. We still have not found a single thing that kills the AFB spore but does not harm the bee, and hence, we burn the bees, frames and honey. If the hive body, bottom board and top are in good condition, the AFB spores that have invaded the wood can be killed by atomic radiation, boiled in lye, or fumigated with ethylene oxide gas; and all of these treatments are labor intensive, costly and dangerous handling. You mentioned treating the queen with medicine. What medicine? You mentioned approval by a veterinarian. In the U. S., veterinarians treat only mammals, no insects. I suggest that you spend your time with proper bee care, because you might be wasting your energy trying to find a treatment against AFB. Now, in the U. S., we have almost eliminated AFB,. now down to about 1-2% of all hives. AFB is a tough disease that the best scientists in all countries have not been able to find a treatment. It reminds me of all the work and science that has been put into trying to find a cure for lung cancer in humans, and still we have not found anything positive. I am a retired scientist, and all of these problems just make me feel inadequate. Good luck! George Imirie ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 22:59:08 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jean-Francois Lariviere Subject: Lebanese start to pay sharply more for their honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit BEIRUT, Oct 4 (Reuters) - Lebanon has slapped a new tariff on honey that effectively doubles the price of the 400-500 tonnes consumed annually in the market, importers said on Monday. The Higher Council of Customs at the end of last week imposed a minimum tariff of $5 per kilogram on imported honey and raised the tariff from 34 to 35 percent. Tariff was a flat 34 percent before the new decree. ``It is ridiculous. Honey is not like bananas or apples of which there is ample domestic production. They are effectively depriving people of eating honey,'' said a large supermarket owner. Imported honey accounts for 95 percent of the market, he said. Last year Lebanon raised customs two percent across the board and sharply raised tariffs on agricultural goods, a move which free traders said contradicted official policy to join regional and international trade pacts. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 04:44:01 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Final input on acids In-Reply-To: <199910040056.UAA07059@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > 85% concentration... It is handled only inside a fume hood, and the > > wearer must have on heavy gloves, a full length plastic apron, and > > a full face shield. > > That's my point Allen, if beekeeping apparel has to resort to these levels > of dresswear ...I want no more of this hobby. As for dunking your fingers > in the substance to establish positive/negative caustic action I am > flabbergasted, have a gas leak - got a box of matches??? I am here to find out what has and has not been actually done and to share what I actually know from actually doing. I'm not here to tell anyone what he or she must or must not do, and I don't expect everyone to be able to do what I do. I am a practical beekeeper, and don't go around guessing any longer than I must. Although Ellen relates what protective gear is used in the laboratory or industrial environment handling concentrate, I think it is clear that all the above specified dress is not necessary in every situation. I don't know if the battery shops have bowed to the wave of excessive fear of everything that is going around, but the last time I noticed, fairly concentrated sulfuric acid was being slung around somewhat casually in plastic bags and poured into batteries without any extreme precautions. In days not long past, every houshold kept a can of lye around used it freely for a number of purposes. It's not an acid, but the effects are similar. As for trying the acid on skin, I've worked around acids in one form or another all my life. The effect of most acids is time and temperature related. I've had a battery explode in my face, throwing concentrated sulphuric acid on me. I washed it off and was fine. (I was lucky it did not get into my eyes, and I don't recommend the experience ). I've used Hcl on masonary and also as a flux for welding and soldering. It spatters. So, I've had acid on me before. No big deal. And before feeling the formic, I did read all the warnings and the toxicity information =very= carefully. Some acids are very toxic and have residual efects. Formic is not and does not. I don't find rhetoric, hypothesizing or speculation to be any substitute for hands on (hands in?) experience. I can understand irrational fears of products. Today, the precautions prescribed for use of many common and safe products are simply ludicrous because of opportunistic lawyers and frivolous suits brought against suppliers, employers, governments, and anyone else who has money. Buy a toaster or a ladder or a toothbrush, and you are likely to waste ten minutes reading warnings that are not necessary for a person of any experience or intelligence. Sometimes the warnings proscribe the common normal use of the item. (Do not stand on a ladder). Such ridiculous warnings obscure any real concerns and make it difficult for the uninitiated to know what to expect. When a clock radio carries as many warnings as a jug of acid, who is to know the extent of any hazards? What is clear and beyond dispute is that formic -- whether concentrated or dilute -- needs respect and careful handling. Personally I have reached the same conclusion as most of the beekeepers and the researchers who have handled it, and that is that formic *can* be handled safely by most adults and is a useful control for both varroa and tracheal mites. In some ways, formic may actually be safer than Apistan. And, FWIW, dilute formic already absorbed in pads is available for those who consider beekeeping a hobby and/or doubt their abilities to handle a common industrial chemical in the raw form. While we are talking about harsh chemicals, I do not consider the use of formic in the same class with the use of hot lye that is advocated by many for 'disinfecting' beekeeping equipment. This latter practice, besides being dangerous, is entirely gratuitous. Formic use is beneficial. And, yes, Ken I =do= check for gas leaks with matches. I wouldn't recommend it to everyone in every situation, and I usually do use a spray bottle; but I do know when and how to use matches. Matches are a valid and safe method -- in the right hands at the right time. (Don't try this at home, kids). > I want to see the demise of the chemical strips as rapidly as anyone else > but until you can find an alternative that is as efficient, as quick and as > safe, I will remain with them. They will not remain "efficient, as quick and as safe" if no other unrelated method is used in rotation. Formic is a valid alternative. > So my final input on this subject is to use Bayvarol, Apistan, Checkmite, > Apivar or whatever treatment is APPROVED in your country, Formic is APPROVED in my country. And recommended. > ... and trust that the scientists will soon come up with > an environmentally friendly but efficient alternative. I hope so, if the beekeepers don't find one first. allen ... Opinions are not facts... Wish me Happy Birthday ----- See if your questions have been answered in over a decade of discussions. BEE-L archives & more: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Bee-l.htm Search sci.agriculture.beekeeping at http://www.deja.com/ or visit http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee to access both on the same page. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 06:50:59 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Irradiation of Equipment In-Reply-To: <199910050215.WAA08903@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > This message was originally submitted by smoser@RURALCOM.NET to the BEE-L > list at LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU. You can approve it using the "OK" mechanism, > ignore it, or repost an edited copy. The message will expire automatically > and you do not need to do anything if you just want to discard it. Please > refer to the list owner's guide if you are not familiar with the > "OK" mechanism; these instructions are being kept purposefully short Scott Moser asked: > ... First, how do I go about finding a place to get the > equipment irradiated? A good place to start is the BEE-L archives at: http://listserv.albany.edu/archives/bee-l.html A search on radiation will yield advice to check food preparation industries and medical facilities. Irradiation facilities are not a dime a dozen, but they are not uncommon either. I suspect a city like St. Louis might have such a facility. > The second thing is, even if colonies do not show signs of infection, > should the equipment be periodically irradiated...? Well, it certainly wouldn't hurt if you have the time and money and have no phobias about irradiation. However, it might be more cost effective to rotate your combs. Aaron Morris - Thinking out with the old, in with the new! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 06:49:37 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Farrington/Bequia Canvas Subject: malathion Comments: To: Bee-L submissions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello all; The Pollinator has recently sent two posts to the List about Malathion.=20 David Green, it is people like you with the integrity and fortitude to = take irresponsible and illegal applicators of insecticides to task that = keep this weary old world running. You give courage to others. Beekeepers everywhere owe you a debt of gratitude. Bob in Bequia ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 15:11:05 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Marko Randjic Subject: Re: AFB Once again... In-Reply-To: <199910051049.GAA17135@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On 05-Oct-99, GImasterBK@AOL.COM wrote: >Research scientists and entomologists have been trying to find a cure or >something to kill the AFB spore for at least 100 years; and our government >laboratories as well as university laboratories are STILL TRYING now in 1999. > You mentioned treating the queen with medicine. What medicine? Oxytetracycline... > You mentioned approval by a veterinarian. In the U. S., veterinarians treat >only >mammals, no insects. It is the same here, but he has to give his opinion whether or not the disease if actually the AFB, so that the other legal measures could follow. So, your veterinarians don't study bees. >I suggest that you spend your time with proper bee care, because you might be >wasting your energy trying to find a treatment against AFB. Now, in the U. Thanks, but, I am already giving my best to do so. I actually do not have problems with AFB, I was only curious to know what is the other people's opinion on this list >S., we have almost eliminated AFB,. now down to about 1-2% of all hives. BTW, Why is it called "American foulbrood"? >AFB is a tough disease that the best scientists in all countries have not >been able >to find a treatment. It reminds me of all the work and science that has been >put into trying to find a cure for lung cancer in humans, and still we have >not found >anything positive. It doesn't mean that it will not succeed in the future. >I am a retired scientist, and all of these problems just make me feel >inadequate. Modern science is maybe neglecting some important aspects of nature, that is maybe why it can't handle some important problems Regards! Marko Randjic ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 10:21:47 -0400 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Organization: ACB Dept., Univ of Michigan Subject: Re: Irradiation of Equipment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Scott Moser wrote: > The second thing is, even if colonies do not show signs of (AFB) > infection, > should the equipment be periodically irradiated, or would this be a waste of > money? Thanks all. As George Imirie has replied to another post along these same lines, I gather that the incidence of AFB in the US is very low. Therefore, it just seems unnecessary to go through all the bother getting equipment irradiated. Why not just inspect your colonies and equipment yourself and burn the contaminated stuff? In an operation of 100 colonies that would be about 1 or 2 colonies a year. (I haven't had any in my operation for at least five years now.) AFB is one of the easiest diseases to detect and the treated equipment would always remain suspect anyhow (at least it would for me). Burning the equipment of so few hives would surely be cheaper and easier than transporting and irradiating the whole lot. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 17:31:57 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jorn Johanesson Subject: report of use of oxcalic acid and formic acid 1997-98 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I got the permission to translate the Varroa report into English and to publish it on my web! anybody out there interested in this work please e-mail ok-report@apimo.dk . I also want to ask for help in making corrections to my translation. My English is not that good, that I dare to publish the report without corrections. Who will help me in this work ???? e-mail to the above. best regards Jorn Johanesson EDBi = multilingual Beekeeping software since 1987 http://home4.inet.tele.dk/apimo (Denmark) http://apimo.dk (USA) apimo@post4.tele.dk Jorn_Johanesson@apimo.dk ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 16:50:05 +0100 Reply-To: Ruary Rudd Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ruary Rudd Subject: Re: Anti-Varroa Bottom Board MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: John Mitchell Date: 26 September 1999 16:57 Subject: Re: Anti-Varroa Bottom Board >board.> > >), but isn't it true that the moths are only a problem in the >summer? All of the wax moths and larvae will die off with the first frost. >Don't most beekeepers do "spring cleaning" at some point? >The moths are the lesser of two evils. >John > You can use a scraper to remove the mess from the bottom board below the Varroa screen. It needs to have a long handle to reach into the corners. If, as it should be, the bottom board is placed with the entrance to the rear, there is no disturbance to the hive or colony and the work can be done at any time. Ruary Rudd rrudd@eircom.net ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 15:52:32 -0400 Reply-To: list@mail.yazbek.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Baxter YazBek.com" Subject: Re: Lebanese start to pay sharply more for their honey Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii hello everybody, thank you Jean-Francois Lariviere for pasting the reuters article. in fact after more then 2 years of struggle the syndicate of lebanese beekeepers has managed to get the bill thru. BEIRUT, Oct 4 (Reuters) - Lebanon has slapped a new tariff on honey that effectively doubles the price of the 400-500 tonnes consumed annually in the market, importers said on Monday. >>>The Higher Council of Customs at the end of last week imposed a >>minimum >>tariff of $5 per kilogram on imported honey and raised the tariff >>from 34 to >>35 percent. Tariff was a flat 34 percent before the new decree. in fact the tax neede to be flat because of the low prices of imported honey (namely 1$). >>``It is ridiculous. Honey is not like bananas or apples of which >>there is >>ample domestic production. They are effectively depriving people of >>eating >>honey,'' said a large supermarket owner. this is partially true in bad honey flow years, this year the local production was way higher then the "normal" years and the bill will help keep the prices profitable for local producers. >>Imported honey accounts for 95 percent of the market, he said. this is also widely exagerated, imports and exports of honey are published by the syndicate of lebanese beekeepers on http://YazBek.com/AraBee >>Last year Lebanon raised customs two percent across the board and >>sharply >>raised tariffs on agricultural goods, a move which free traders said >>contradicted official policy to join regional and international trade >>pacts. indeed lebanon is famous for its highly liberal open economy, the gvt/MPs signed the euro-med accords, GATT accords and bilateral accords with many countries to reduce tariffs, most include agricultural goods, and some of these pacts start in the year 2000, i suppose the customs will only be in place for a few years. lebanese beekeepers have no state subsidees whatsoever,... and the yield/hive is low, i think the high tariffs is a short term solution, until we can find a way to make lebanese beekeeping sustainable thru marketing and consumer awareness, like all of us. IMHO it is more positiv then negativ. baxter yazbek agric. eng. founding member of the lebanese beekeeprs syndicate http://yazbek.com discount beekeeping store http://yazbek.com/AraBee The largest reference on beekeeping in arab countries. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 18:34:21 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pollinator@AOL.COM Subject: Caught in the Act! Wilful violation/mosquito spraying MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In our efforts to stop these violations that kill our pollinators, we have been monitoring. On Sunday, we caught Horry County mosquito control red-handed, applying malathion in violation of the label. After notification of the violation, the applicator continued - a wilful violation. Details at: http://users.aol.com/gardenbees/ BTW, the server for www.pollinator.com is down all day. Has it been down long? Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Home Page: http://www.pollinator.com The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles): http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 21:56:53 -0400 Reply-To: admin@beeworks.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: FGMO Revisited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Oh! boy, I stirred a whole hornet's nest with my comments on the metric system. My thanks to all with sensible information, a raspberry to the superior ones! Some days ago I wrote regarding my results with FGMO and essential oils, more information is available which I think will explain some of the mixed results reported by others. As some of you know we raise queens using baby nucs, small mini hives with just a handful of bees, which at this time of year become disposable. We wait till all the brood has emerged then shake the bees into specially prepared hives capable of accepting more bees. These babies are examined in great detail, firstly for stray queen cells, then for virgins, and finally to check all the brood has emerged. So, there is extensive manipulation of lots of these babies over a period of 3 weeks. Early in the year we had to decide on a Varroa treatment, otherwise these mini's would be over run by the end of the summer. The jury is still out as to whether queens are damaged by Varroa, but we didn't want to find out. It was decided to try essential oil in the feed and FGMO oil as a treatment. The problem was how and when. At the wrong time and the virgin could be damaged as they run all over the box looking for rivals soon after emergence. We decided on a stream across the top bars, same as the big hives, but just after introducing the new cell, which allowed 48 hours for it to be spread around before the queen emerges. Allowing for our timing this means each baby got FGMO treatment every 14 days. We are now in the process of dismantling all the baby nucs and here's the good news.*No Varroa.* We have tried a number of different tests and can't find one. We've even gone so far as to examine the cell roofs of dozens of frames with a large binocular magnifier looking for the feces of Varroa, nothing. I believe the results we have are an explanation of the variety of results reported by other users of FGMO. The bigger the hive the more the treatment is diluted by the sheer volume of bees. This is borne out by our results, nothing in our baby nucs and steadily getting more and more till the maximum Apistan drop was from a drone mother hive. I am left with a simple conclusion, FGMO works, to produce good results as the hive gets bigger, either increase the volume or frequency of the treatment. Comments? ***************************************** The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada.L3V 6H1. Phone (705)326 7171 Fax (705)325 3461 David Eyre, e-mail http://www.beeworks.com This months special:-Vest/veil combination **************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 20:36:56 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GImasterBK@AOL.COM Subject: Re: AFB Once again... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Marko; Oxytetracline does NOT KILL AFB spores! Too many beekeepers believe that it is a valid treatment to kill the AFB disease. The only thing that Terramycin does to AFB is CONTROL it so that infected bees can stay alive and work, but it has absolutely no KILLING power. It is almost identical to a diabetic getting a shot of insulin EVERY day. Insulin can NOT kill the diabetes pathogen, only control it. However, if the patient stops taking insulin, diabetes kills them rather quickly. That is why I have not used Terramycin in my 66 years of beekeeping! I hope your vets are well trained to positively identify AFB. I hope my memory is correct. The spore of ABF was first isolated by an American scientist in the late 19th century, and noting the difference from European Foul Brood, named it American Foul Brood. However, AFB was found worldwide and did not originate in America. In fact, when the first settlers laded in America in 1607, they soon found that honey bees were NOT native to this entire hemisphere and hence had to import bees from England. I do not share your opinion that science is overlooking important things in nature. Scientists investigate all facets of things provided by nature and tries to improve those nature things that improve humanity; but nature, in itself, cannot, do likewise. Regards George Imirie ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:29:46 -0400 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Organization: ACB Dept., Univ of Michigan Subject: Re: FGMO Revisited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Eyre wrote: > I am left with a simple conclusion, FGMO works, to produce good > results as the hive gets bigger, either increase the volume or > frequency of the treatment. > Comments? You didn't say whether or not you also used control nucs without the treatment, or whether the nucs were made up from Apistan treated mother colonies. In the absence of controls, all these observations are simply that: observations. The first step in the scientific method, but certainly no basis for making any kind of conclusion. If you have no varroa, and your aim is production rather than science, it is perfectly fine. Yet such observations must be verified by controlled scientific experiments by others as well. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:46:45 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pollinator@AOL.COM Subject: Copy FYI: Request for emergency action MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Copy to Bee List FYI: This is a request for emergency action. If you are in a similar situation with massive mosquito spraying, you may wish to make a similar request of your state authorities: vmccskl@clemson.edu, chrnndz@clemson.edu, lgllwy@clemson.edu, mhood@clemson.edu BKOSTYK@CLEMSON.EDU Dr. Von H. McCaskill, Department Head, Dept. of Pesticide Regulation Cecil Hernandez, Regulatory Specialist, Charleston Barry Kostyk, Regulatory Specialist, Horry County Lee Galloway, Pee Dee Research & Experiment Center Dr. Mike Hood Apicultural Specialist, Clemson Universtity Sent at 11:30 am, October 6, 1999 Dear Sirs: As you know, I provided the Department of Pesticide Regulation a report of a clearcut violation of the pesticide label in Horry County Sunday. We all know there are many more violations going on, but I cannot monitor the entire situation. I have donated about a week of my time for this public service monitoring, but I also am self employed and have to pay my bills. Bees will be foraging heavily today, and for the next few days. Goldenrod, a prime bee forage plant is in full bloom; asters are beginning. There are also many other fallflowers along the roadsides and in fields that are foraged by bees. Applications in violation, of materials that prohibit application while bees are foraging, will cause massive damage to our pollinator populations. Growers who have lost their crops to drought and flooding this year may lose them next year to lack of pollinators. The second loss is from an entirely human cause, and is preventable, simply by requiring that applicators obey the law. Bees began carrying pollen this morning at about 10 am. I expect they will be carrying it heavily throughout the afternoon, reaching peak foraging in mid to late afternoon and, based on experience should end around 6 or 6:30 pm. The latter time is an estimate, and actual application should be based on actual figures. I request the following emergency action: 1. That the Department of Pesticide Regulation make spot checks during the hours that bees are foraging, to determine that applicators are in compliance with the bee-protection label directions. 2. That the Department require applicators to determine, prior to applications, by actual obervance, not by guess, that bees are not foraging, with all materials that prohibit application during bee forage times. 3. That State Apiary Specialist, Dr. Mike Hood, provide assistance to applicators by monitoring the times that bees are foraging, to provide an official source of information to applicators, and to personally come to the area experiencing these widespread post-hurricane applications to assist beekeepers in monitoring and enforcement. 4. That the Department of Pesticide Regulation no longer condone applicator evasion of the label requirements, by requiring beekeepers to protect bees. Besides being an illegal scheme, it is an impossible scheme, as beekeepers have enough problems with flooding, mud, downed trees, little funds and the normal responsibilities of making a living. 5. That the Department of Pesticide Regulation seek to require violators to make restoration, just as those who poison a stream are required to restock fish. Horry County should be required to restock honeybees by March 20, 2000 at the rate of 2 hives per square mile, to replace honeybees and other pollinators lost in these violations. This is also a Freedom of Information request from each of the named addresees for documentation of the response to this letter. David L. Green Pot o'Gold Honey Co. Hemingway, SC ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 18:41:56 +0100 Reply-To: John Burgess Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Burgess Subject: Re: AFB Once again... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Now, in the U. S., we have almost eliminated AFB,. now down to about 1->2% of all hives. > George Imirie > If AFB has almost been eliminated in the U.S., why is oxytetracycline (terramycin) so widely used as a preventative measure? My understanding is that this treatment only suppresses the disease and that the only way to eliminate it is to burn bees, frames and wax, and to scorch (to a layer of charcoal) the boxes. Am I right? John Burgess, Editor Gwenynwyr Cymru, The Welsh Beekeeper ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 21:19:51 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jorn Johanesson Subject: varroa report thanks! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I have now received enough interest for the Varroa report to go forward with the translation from Danish into English! Thanks to all who reflected! here is an appetite wakeup : The purpose of the report is to describe the research work, that is done by the Danish Federal Beekeeper association in cooperation with beekeepers from the whole Danish country. Some of the investigations are done in cooperation with the projectgroup beekeeping, which is the authoritative state organ for bee diseases, to which reports of e.g AFB must be reported. the research is made to produce result for the benefit of practical beekeeping. The results are used in guides used by consultants and Varroainspectors at meetings and course given in local beekeeper associations and when articles are done in Tidskrift for Biavl ( The Danish beekeeper association magazine). the cooperation with the Hosts of the research ensure, that test is done under equal conditions as the results are to be used under. Special comity, established by the head of DBF, has the head responsibility for the research work. on frequently meetings with this group is proposal submitted and approved and ideas and plans are approved too. more is a cooperation with consultants and researcher from the other Nordic counties and Lithuania about exchange of ideas and praktical felt research by use of ecological Varroa treatment methods. the report comprises the following items : nosema tests test of production queens long-time test of formic acid - free formic acid - krämer plates Test of formic acid evaporation tools -universal tools -burmeister - Apidea- Nassenheider oxcalic acid test - wintering bee strength -spring test -repeated treatments through the season -autumn treatment -aftercare after other treatments queen imprisonment and formic acid treatment of catch frames. I will start the translation this week-end. Jorn Johanesson EDBi = multilingual Beekeeping software since 1987 http://home4.inet.tele.dk/apimo (Denmark) http://apimo.dk (USA) apimo@post4.tele.dk Jorn_Johanesson@apimo.dk ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 13:37:48 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "BOGANSKY,RONALD J." Subject: Chemical Safety MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, While following the formic acid discussion, I noticed the actual issue of using formic to treat against varroa got a bit lost in the side discussions on metric equivalents and safe handling. These were good posts, however, and provided some very useful information and because Allen was taken to task a bit, I thought I would wait for his response before posting. First, I want to start off by saying I hate using any chemicals, anywhere in connection with beekeeping. But being a realist by nature, I know they are necessary. When it comes to chemicals it is usually misuse and sometimes overuse that results in problems. One must read and follow label directions when using any chemical. If we are not doing this we are no better than the folks, who willfully misuse pesticides, that cause Dave and other beekeepers so much heartache. Chemicals are handled safely on a daily basis by thousands of individuals. I have worked in the Chemical industry for over 20 years in various functions including production, R&D, laboratory and emergency response. For the past 12 years I have be involved in Safety. I have conducted seminars and training sessions on safe chemical handling. In teaching I always emphasize that chemicals only respect two things: KNOWLEDGE and COMMON SENSE. If you know and understand a chemical's properties you can handle it safely. Knowledge comes from learning, by reading labels, MSDSs, etc. Common sense, well, who knows where that comes from and unfortunately not everyone has enough of it. In investigating accidents you are amazed by what someone has done and never will understand why. This lack of common sense is one of the reasons that the government has laws to "protect workers". Unfortunately gathering the knowledge is not always easy either. If you read two MSDSs from different suppliers for the same chemical you may notice striking differences, possibly some disagreement. This is partly because, as Allen pointed out, warning statements are becoming absurd. Many are written, not to inform or protect the end user, but to protect the manufacturer. This has become necessary because of all the ridiculous law suits. You have to take the knowledge you gain and use common sense to apply it. It doesn't take a lot of common sense to determine that if I am mixing or using acids that are capable of splashing I should be wearing some sort of eye protection. There is risk associated with every job. Yon need to manage the risk. Is the risk the same applying the formic acid pads as when doing the mixing. Probably not. But that doesn't mean you should be carrying them is your back pocket either. Let me close by saying there is a real simple acid test (no pun intended) to determine how great the risk is in something you are doing. Don't ask yourself, "Is this safe for me to do?". What you really need to ask is "Would I let my son or daughter or some other loved one do this?". If the answer is no, then you need to ask why and correct it. I will not let my son mow the lawn without wearing safety shoes (although this is done by many in bare feet). I explained why they were important but I told him I really want him to wear him because I love him and I don't want to see him hurt. He always wears them without my reminding him. We can work with chemicals safely. They have become a part of the life we have come to know. Just learn about them and use common sense. Think safety in everything you do. Safety never costs, it only pays. Ron Bogansky Kutztown, (eastern) PA, USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 14:56:14 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Chemical Safety In-Reply-To: <199910062017.QAA08752@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > ...because Allen was taken to task a bit... Hehehe. No problem. I enjoy a bit of controversy and criticism. That's often how I learn, although I do like it best when my critics know what they are talking about, are good natured, and emphasize fact over fancy and rhetoric. > Chemicals are handled safely on a daily basis by thousands of > individuals... Is the risk the same applying the formic acid > pads as when doing the mixing(?)... Now, funny you should bring this up. I've beem meaning to mention to the group that one of my guys did manage to get some dilute acid in an eye yesterday while applying pads. It was one of those freak things. He was working alone and had a bucket of pads (no free acid) on the ground beside a single hive. Normally he would have had it on top of the next hive, but this hive was by itself, so he set the pail on the ground. Anyhow, he lifted one side of the telescoping lid, and the brick slid off and landed in the bucket with sufficient force to squeeze the pads and spray a bit of acid far enough to get him in the eye. Seems he wasn't wearing his goggles (you can bet he is today), but fortunately he was trained to immediately flush the eye with the fresh water which he had with him (part of our safety plan). He said he noticed a little smarting when the acid hit him and he immediately flushed the eye for the prescribed 15 minutes. By then could detect no effect of incident, and continued on with the job. He pretty well forgot about it, but mentioned it this morning and says that the eye feels okay. A close examination shows no visible effects. Goes to show that it does not pay to make assumptions, and that it is important to have a 'plan B'. > What you really need to ask is "Would I let my son or daughter > or some other loved one do this?" Think safety in everything you do. > Safety never costs, it only pays. Good points. I remember that when I worked in the mines that the supervisors would not let the men do anything dangerous, but always insisted on doing it themselves if it had to be done. It seems we are willing to take risks ourselves that we would not ask, or even allow, others to face. allen ----- See if your questions have been answered in over a decade of discussions. BEE-L archives & more: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Bee-l.htm Search sci.agriculture.beekeeping at http://www.deja.com/ or visit http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee to access both on the same page. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 19:10:39 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Foulbrood MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In the UK members of the British Beekeepers' Association have automatic insurance cover against AFB and EFB for 2 hives included in their subscription. Additional hives cost another 33 pence (say 50 cents US) each. There is a separate scheme for commercial bee farmers who are defined as those with more than 40 hives. I may be slightly out of date on these details from my memory. Perhaps the BBKA will correct me. Compensation is paid according to the number and quality of combs destroyed by burning. The policy of burning and burying the contents of infected hives combined with a compensation scheme financed by the beekeepers themselves has enabled the UK to reduce the incidence of AFB to about 1% and keep it at that seemingly irreducible level for many years. EFB is more problematical and less understood. More research is needed and the BBKA is providing some pump priming funding to encourage this. Until recently the policy was to burn and bury as with AFB but now in cases of slight infection the beekeeper is given the option to accept treatment which is applied by the Man (or woman, sorry Beulah) from the Ministry. Anecdotal evidence suggests that EFB has been increasing since this policy was introduced. This may not be correct and even if it is correct there may not be a direct cause and effect. Perhaps one of the MAFF experts lurking on the list will be kind enough to comment on this. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 21:42:42 -0400 Reply-To: admin@beeworks.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: FGMO Revisited In-Reply-To: <199910061433.KAA25941@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 6 Oct 99, at 10:29, Ted Fischer wrote: > You didn't say whether or not you also used control nucs without the > treatment, or whether the nucs were made up from Apistan treated mother > colonies. In the absence of controls, all these observations are simply > that: observations. The first step in the scientific method, but > certainly no basis for making any kind of conclusion. If you have no > varroa, and your aim is production rather than science, it is perfectly > fine. Yet such observations must be verified by controlled scientific > experiments by others as well. WHY? I am totally baffled by this. Does this mean that *observation* and discussion of it, is not allowed on this list? Also why should such observations be verified by anyone whether it be scientific or otherwise? Are we to assume that I am for some reason fabricating results of a free treatment? Tomorrow morning I will observe the sun rising, from that I will conclude that it's going to get brighter and lighter. Does that need a controlled scientific experiment to prove I'm correct in my observation? I didn't set out to prove anything, I was only interested in keeping my bees alive and healthy, hardly conducive to allowing bees to die as a 'control'. Perhaps in future we should all keep our *observations* to ourselves? The old beekeepers used to do this before Bee-L and the information age, from which we all benefit. Therefore, I would suggest criticism for the sake of criticism, is distructive rather than constructive. ***************************************** The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada.L3V 6H1. Phone (705)326 7171 Fax (705)325 3461 David Eyre, e-mail http://www.beeworks.com This months special:-Vest/veil combination **************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 05:54:22 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: R & S Adams Subject: Combining HIves MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; boundary="YKYXSBZcEYNUePEMPeHdQCHNGKDVBJ"; charset="iso-8859-1" We have captured two "wild" hives, one from a tree and one from the wall of a house. Neither is very strong so it seems that they should be combined. Which should go on top? The weak or the the stronger. One definitely has a queen, we will go thru the other hive tonight to see if it does. Thanks, Randy Adams ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 07:04:08 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: FGMO Revisited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Eyre wrote: Perhaps in future we should all keep our > *observations* to ourselves? The old beekeepers used to do this > before Bee-L and the information age, from which we all benefit. > Therefore, I would suggest criticism for the sake of criticism, is > distructive rather than constructive. This is not intended to be critical, but some old timer's observations can get you into as much trouble as those from an uninformed newbee. And when it is passed on as the way to do it to a new beekeeper, the results can be one less beekeeper keeping bees. I have seen that too often in Maine. I did not treat for varroa at any time this year. I had no varroa. My observation is that you do not need to treat for varroa. From this I can surmise that no treatment is an excellent way to control varroa. That is why you need controls. One piece of advice we give to all new beekeepers is to have two hives so you can compare. Otherwise you have no idea if the one hive is doing good or bad. My concern is only with absolutes- the statement "I am left with a simple conclusion, FGMO works, to produce good results as the hive gets bigger, either increase the volume or frequency of the treatment." Dr. R ran tests of the same method of application and abandoned it since it did not work. So we have two observations and two separate conclusions. Again, no criticism intended. Bill Truesdell ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 07:42:55 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Caldeira Subject: Take home message from Apimondia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In addition to the informative talks at Apimondia, it was nice to see all the innovative items on display at the Expo. Plastics especially seemed to making further advances in beekeeping equipment, from queen rearing tools to hive parts. A few photos of creative beekeeping equipment from Apimondia exhibitors are now on my web site at: http://home.earthlink.net/~jcaldeira/beekeeping/api99.htm John Caldeira Dallas, Texas, USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 08:02:02 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Subject: Re: FGMO Revisited Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Just so people are informed on this, Dr. Rodriguez's latest report posted on my web page was precisely on FGMO applied in fog. He is using a Burgess Portable Propane Insect Fogger to apply. Read for yourselves. It's in English. No Bablefish required! -Barry -- Barry Birkey West Chicago, Illinois http://www.birkey.com ---------- >From: Bill Truesdell > Dr. R ran tests of the same method of application and abandoned > it since it did not work. So we have two observations and two > separate conclusions. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 09:03:48 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Blane White Subject: Re: FGMO Revisited Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII David Eyre wrote: Perhaps in future we should all keep our > *observations* to ourselves? The old beekeepers used to do this > before Bee-L and the information age, from which we all benefit. > Therefore, I would suggest criticism for the sake of criticism, is > distructive rather than constructive. Hi David and everyone, The reason that others have asked about control colonies and pointed out the need for them is really simple. If you have no comparison you don't know if your observed outcome ( low varroa populations ) is actually due to your treatment or something else in the environment of those honey bee colonies. Your observations of low varroa populations are valid within the limits of your testing methods but you have no basis to determine the cause of those low populations without control colonies. You used apistan to treat for varroa mites which could fully explain your observations. As for the lower populations in mating nucs that is what I would expect based on the biology involved i.e. these are small colonies that never raised much brood and had frequent breaks in broodrearing. Under these conditions varroa populations are unable to build up quickly due to the breaks in broodrearing and may even decline. I would expect the varroa populations to be considerably lower in the nucs than in full sized colonies in the same location. Your treatments may work but based on your observations you cannot conclude that they are actually working without the use of untreated controls. The use of untreated controls does not necessarly mean that those colonies would die only that they would be untreated during the experiment ( summer ) and treatment applied at the end of the observation period when comparative data would be collected. We are not being critical for the sake of criticism but pointing out why your conclusions are not justified by your data ( observations). Let us keep our conclusions within our data or we will be lead astray. blane ****************************************** Blane White MN Dept of Agriculture blane.white@state.mn.us ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 17:12:01 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Integrated Pest Management Theory Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello All I have recently come across the term Integrated Pest Management Theory, which I understand relates to using different but complimentary methods to control a pathogen. I have searched the Web but all of the sites are specific to a particular pest, which I daresay is the way it must be. I did not come across any theory as applied to varroa. What I am interested in is in any documentation which covers this theory in respect of varroa jacobsoni. I have come across isolated statements such as 'you must not reduce the mite percentage below 99% as this may result in a greater possibility of resistance'. What I am looking for is more of this type of theory so that I can better study varroa, and how to cope with it. Any help greatly appreciated. Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park, Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland Tel + 353 1 289 5269 Fax + 353 1 289 9940 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 19:20:59 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Harry Goudie Subject: Re: Foulbrood MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > The policy of burning and burying the contents of infected hives combined > with a compensation scheme financed by the beekeepers themselves has enabled > the UK to reduce the incidence of AFB to about 1% and keep it at that > seemingly irreducible level for many years. I suppose this 1% will be due to feral colonies and colonies which have not been reported with the disease. Is there actually a law which states that foulbrood must be reported? I ask this because it does not seem to be the case for varroa. In the case of varroa there seems to be no obligation to either report or to treat an infestation. Harry