From MAILER-DAEMON Sun Feb 13 07:12:56 2000 Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA08308 for ; Sun, 13 Feb 2000 07:12:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02304 for ; Sun, 13 Feb 2000 07:12:54 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200002131212.HAA02304@listserv.albany.edu> Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 07:12:54 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8d)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG9910B" To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Content-Length: 84188 Lines: 1861 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 22:19:33 -0400 Reply-To: Garry Libby Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garry Libby Subject: Re: Integrated Pest Management Theory Hello Tom, Dewey Caron at the University of Delaware has this page about IPM: http://www.udel.edu/entomology/dmcaron/public_ html/pestmanagementmethods.htm I hope this helps. Garry Libby Attleboro, MA USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 17:40:34 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Lipscomb, Al" Subject: FW: FGMO Revisited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >>On 6 Oct 99, at 10:29, Ted Fischer wrote: >> You didn't say whether or not you also used control nucs without the >> treatment, or whether the nucs were made up from Apistan treated mother >> colonies. In the absence of controls, all these observations are simply >> that: observations. The first step in the scientific method, but >> certainly no basis for making any kind of conclusion. If you have no >> varroa, and your aim is production rather than science, it is perfectly >> fine. Yet such observations must be verified by controlled scientific >> experiments by others as well. >WHY? I am totally baffled by this. Does this mean that *observation* >and discussion of it, is not allowed on this list? Also why should >such observations be verified by anyone whether it be scientific or >otherwise? Are we to assume that I am for some reason fabricating >results of a free treatment? No, observation is just fine. The question was "did you use controls?" What he wants to know is it possible that we have another "cold fusion" observation? Now take that how you will but the two who made the "cold fusion" mistake were pretty smart folks. It took a good deal of looking to find the flaw in their work. All that is being offered is the old "post hock, ergo propter hoc" argument. I did this, that happend therefore what I did caused that. How would the original posting have been if control nucs were used and they also showed the exact same mite counts? It's not that I think badly about what you are doing, I am glad you are putting in the work and are kind enough to share your results. I am following it carefuly and taking it into my own work. It is great. But, you could be fooled by results or mistaken in your mesurement, you are after all just human. Here is an example two of my hives had their mite populations drop to nothing. I could not find mites in either hive. I had not treated with Apistan, Essential Oils, or FGMO. But if I were I may have been fooled into thinking that something I was doing was producing the results. Today one of the hives still looks to have no mite population and the other has gone queenless. But when you ask about discussion of your observation, do you discount the question asked? That is the very discussion that one should expect. Too be fair you posted a formula and a theory. "do this and the mites are controled." It is not fair to expect you to front the total expense of the trial and control. I for one am going to try and help out. I have two hives that will work as a good test/control pair. Now my sample size will be way too small for the results to matter but if I can get a few others to do the same thing we can get a very good test. One hundred hives, fifty test and fifty control would be a good way to start. But the test will have to be controled and agreeed to so that we don't polute the results with our variations. So if someone can define the experiment for the test please post it and lets see what we can do. Someone has been kind enough to do some ground work for us, lets not let it go to waste! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 18:20:34 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: FGMO REVISITED MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Once again we have an acute and detailed original observation from David Eyre. Ted Fischer has pointed out why it is an observation and not science and no, David, there is nothing wrong with observations: science begins and ends with them. David is doing what he does best - beekeeping. On top of that he is showing us that he is an observer and has the will and the resources not only to experiment but also to share his results with the world. Pause for applause. On the other hand, David is also showing us that he is not a scientist - this is not a criticism, neither am I. I offer the following suggestion which may enable the List to conduct science rather than just talk about it. Could one of the learned professors on the list lend David a science student for a season? The object would be to enable David's experiments to be conducted on a scientific basis; the student would carry out original research which would help his/her degree; David would get cheap labour for the season; the student would learn practical commercial beekeeping; the rest of us would gain real knowledge rather than just interest from the symbiosis. How about it? Chris Slade Thinking somebody must have thought of this before. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 09:05:58 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Marc Sevigny Subject: Entrance Reducer for Winter MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As I was putting in my entrance reducer, I was wondering if it is best to install it with the opening against the hive body, rather than on the bottom board. As bees die and drop to the bottom board, I assume the exit can get blocked. Is this common practice? I saw no mention of the positioning in my book. Also, I want to make sure I'm doing the right thing. I made my own reducer. Rather than a 1" wide X 3/4" long opening, as reducers are sold, I made a 4" wide X 1/2" opening, so that the bees have a larger exit, better ventilation (until it gets very cold) and it can double as a mouse guard. Anything wrong with this? ----------------------------------------------------------------- Marc Sevigny marcs@legato.com Legato Systems (508) 229-0400 X101 Summit Place 4th Floor 420 Lakeside Ave fax: (508) 229-0400 Marlborough, MA 01752 www.legato.com ----------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 17:05:54 +0200 Reply-To: jtemp@xs4all.nl Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jan Tempelman Organization: Home sweet home Subject: BNEWS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In the past i got the Bnews-letter from Andy N. Specialy interest was the up to date honey market prices. I see there IS something about US gouvernement, agriculture, honeymarket i surf the "hole gouvernement site" but find only something on a subscibe on a emailserver BUT NO URL for that site Can someone point my in the right direction?? and tell my the URL of that site????? ------------------------------------- NATIONAL HONEY MARKET NEWS NO: 9 U.S. DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTLURE AGRICILTURAL MARKETING SERVICE DATE: OCT. 9, 1998 FRUIT AND VEGETABLE DIVISION 201 5 SOUTH I ST STREET - RM 4 YAKIMA, WA 08003-2231 PHONE: (500) 575-2494 HONEY MARKET FOR THE MONTH OF SEPTEMBER, 1998 IN VOLUMES OF 10,000 POUNDS OR GREATER PRICES PAID TO BEEKEEPERS FOR EXTRACTED, UNPROCESSED HONEY IN MAJOR PRODUCING STATES BY PACKERS, HANDLERS & OTHER LARGE USERS, CENTS PER POUND, F.O.B. OR DEUVERED NEARBY, CONTAINERS EXCHANGED OR RETURNED, PROMPT DELIVERY & PAYMENT UNLESS OTHERWISE STATED. ARKANSAS - SOYBEAN, EXTRA LIGHT AMBER, 60 CENTS - FLORAL UNKNOWN, LIGHT AMBER, 58 CENTS CALIFORNIA - ALFALFA/SAGE, LIGHT AMBER, 55 CENTS - MIXED FLOWERS, EXTRA LIGHT AMBER, 57-58 CENTS - MIXED FLOWERS, LIGHT AMBER, 55-56 CENTS - ORANGE, WHITE, 61-62 CENTS COLORADO - ALFALFA, WHITE, 67 CENTS FLORIDA - GALLBERRY, EXTRA LIGHTAMBER, 65 CENTS - GALLBERRY, LIGHT AMBER, 58 CENTS - ORANGE BLossom, MEDIUM AMBER, 79 CENTS .......... ....... ------------------------------------- regards, jant -- the orginal drone methode, fight the varroa chemistry free Jan Tempelman Kerkstraat 53 NL 7471 AG Goor xx.31.(0)547.275788 http://www.xs4all.nl/~jtemp/index3.html mailto:jtemp@xs4all.nl -- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 11:54:20 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Dr. Malcom (Tom) Sanford" Organization: Dept of Entomology/Nematology, U. of Florida Subject: Integrated Pest Management for Varroa and AFB reporting MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Tom Barrett asks about Integrated Pest Management Theory. It is not a theory, but put into practice by much of production agriculture. Here is a note about its use for Varroa control from the pages of APIS: http://www.ifas.ufl.edu/~mts/apishtm/apis96/apoct96.htm#3 INTEGRATED PEST MANAGEMENT FOR VARROA In keeping with the essential oils theme, the person doing a good deal of research in this area, Dr. Nicholas Calderone, formerly part of Dr. H. Shimanki's Beltsville research team and now on the faculty of Cornell University has provided some insight. A synopsis of his work presented to the Canadian Association of Professional Apiculturists (Hive Lights, Canadian Honey Council, May 1996) was republished in The Speedy Bee (July 1996, Vol. 25, No. 7, pp. 1-2). The emphasis of his remarks was not on oils, however, but on using Integrated Pest Management (IPM), which uses both chemical and non-chemical means to control Varroa. Dr. Calderone's IPM strategy is to use a mix of methodologies to control Varroa populations. One is the use of what he calls "natural products" many of which can be called "oils." These include tymol, eucalyptus, camphor and menthol. Research using this treatment showed good results in the fall, when most mites were on adult bees and little brood was present. When more brood was present, however, the treatment didn't work as well, although it still had some effect. The difference in amount and kind of brood, depending on the season of the year, is always a key issue in Varroa control (see October 1994 APIS). Two other methods used in conjunction with the natural products suggested by Dr. Calderone are mechanical. The first is the use of sticky boards. It seems that mites naturally fall off bees all the time and can return, unless they are physically trapped (stuck) on the boards. The final control measure is trapping mites in drone brood. In this method, drone foundation is inserted into the brood nest. When drawn out and populated with drone brood, the comb is removed and destroyed along with the mites that are trapped inside the sealed cells. According to an article in Bee Science (Vol. 4, No. 1, 1996, pp 1-13 ), "Bio-technical manipulations used in Vietnam to control Varroa jacobsoni and Tropilaelaps clareae in colonies of Apis mellifera," the latter method listed by Dr. Calderone is used when no chemical use is possible either because of cultural or economic reasons. In Vietnam, for example, corners of worker comb are cut off or empty frames are placed into colonies. When these are drawn out and populated with drone brood (preferred by Varroa over worker brood), they are removed and destroyed. In a variation of this technique, destruction of brood in conjunction with new queen introduction to provide a break in the brood cycle is also practiced. Whether using essential natural products, essential oils, pesticides or mechanical control methods, The IPM principles discussed by Dr. Calderone above should always be kept in mind. This is especially true for chemicals. Employing any such substance exclusively and/or to excess for Varroa control may lead to resistance and subsequent loss of the material as an effective control agent (see November 1994 and February 1995 APIS). A key ingredient in most IPM programs is sampling bee populations to determine the number of mites present. Only when this number exceeds a certain level is it generally considered wise to employ control measures (see October 1989 and February 1993 APIS). This is further complicated, however, by possible rapid reinfestation from nearby untreated apiaries (see March 1993 APIS) Harry Goudie asks if there are requirements to report AFB. In Florida if AFB is found by an inspector, the colony is burned no questions asked. There is a small compensation. Requirements to report AFB are not part of the law to my knowledge. For Florida bee regs see: http://doacs.state.fl.us/~pi/bees.html Tom Sanford -- =========================================================================== Dr. Malcolm (Tom) Sanford, Extension Apiculturist, University of Florida Bldg. 970, P.O. Box 110620, Gainesville, FL 32611-0620 Ph. 352/392-1801 ext. 143 Fax 352/392-0190 E-mail: mts@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Publisher of the APIS newsletter: http://www.ifas.ufl.edu/~mts/apishtm/apis.htm To electronically subscribe, send the following to listserv@lists.ufl.edu: subscribe Apis-L First Name Last Name ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Author of "Beekeeping in the Digital Age" http://bee.airoot.com/beeculture/digital/ =========================================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 13:04:45 PDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Katie Stepp Subject: Re: Integrated Pest Management Theory Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >I have recently come across the term Integrated Pest Management Theory, >which I understand relates to using different but complimentary methods to >control a pathogen. Integrated Pest Management has also been described as "A strategy that uses various combinations of pest control methods, biological, cultural, and chemical in a compatible manner to achieve satisfactory control and ensure favorable economic and environmental consequences." (Section 3, National Coalition on IPM, 1994). One of the buzz words in IPM is economic thresholds. That means the level of pest infestation that is likely to cause an economic loss to the beekeeper. This is somewhere below the level of infestation that will completely wreck the colony. You only treat for the pest when its population exceeds the threshold. For varroa jacobsoni the thresholds (numbers of mites detected) in Georgia are: February 4.3 adhesive sheet method 2 ether roll method August 117-187 adhesive sheet method 14-15 ether roll method (please correct me if these numbers are wrong) >I have searched the Web but all of the sites are specific to a particular >pest, which I daresay is the way it must be. I did not come across any >theory as applied to varroa. Not all the sites are specific. Try searching agriculture journals. Agrichemical and Environmental News for July 99 had a whole issue dedicated to IPM. http://www2.tricity.wsu.edu/aenews/July99AENews/July99AENews.htm The Entomological Society of America is offering free access to it's online journals through December. Register at the site below. http://journals.entsoc.org/ Check out the April 1999 issue of the Journal of Economic Entomology for two articles about varroa. Also, university web sites have search engines for academic papers sometimes. I go to the University of Georgia and used my school's website http://www.uga.edu to find links. Try the extension service at the local agriculture school as well. UGA's page: http://www.ces.uga.edu/default.htm University of Flordia's page: http://www.ifas.ufl.edu/~mts/apishtm/apis.htm (look at APIS issue October 1996, Vol 14, number 10) Cornell University's site: http://www.cce.cornell.edu/ The National Integrated Pest Management Network: http://www.reeusda.gov/nipmn/ Don't know how much all that helps you, Tom, but the Americans on the list may find it useful. Katie Stepp student of apiculture ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 07:42:09 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: A little trivia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A friend recently sent me this. He is not a beekeeper, but it is amazing how much information you get from non-beekeepers who want to keep you informed. >Honey is the only product of a non-kosher creature that is Kosher! >You have probably known this forever, but I just found it out from the textbook that we are using in a course Introduction to Judaism at USM. It is taught by Rabbi Harry Sky. This, of course, is not the major thrust of the subject, but it was something I ran across in reading the text book. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 14:57:42 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Foulbrood MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In the UK both foulbroods are notifiable diseases. I do not think Varroa is notifiable if you are "below the line". The assumption is that if you haven't got it you haven't looked hard enough. I have not seen the line (of advancing varroa) published lately, maybe MAFF has given up and now assume the whole of UK is infested. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 23:50:09 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "W. Allen Dick" Subject: Bees and Trains I have some land near railway tracks where several freight trains a day go through, usually at considerable speed. Occasionally they stop to shunt cars. I'm considering using a building about 50 feet from the tracks for wintering bees indoors. Has anyone had any *actual experience* with wintering bees near railway tracks? I'm not sure if honey bees are aware of airborne noises or if the ground might vibrate under the building sufficiently to disturb them. I suppose I'll have to observe carefully when a train goes by to see if I can notice any vibration through the ground that far away. I'm wondering if the vibration and noise are sufficient to cause problems. I've heard that noisy, vibrating fans in wintering buildings lead to losses in hives near them, but wonder if the occasional passing train would be a problem. Has anyone any data on bee sensitivity to noise or vibration that might apply? allen ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 08:42:03 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pollinator@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Bees and Trains MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/10/99 4:41:13 AM Pacific Daylight Time, allend@INTERNODE.NET writes: << I suppose I'll have to observe carefully when a train goes by to see if I can notice any vibration through the ground that far away. I'm wondering if the vibration and noise are sufficient to cause problems. I've heard that noisy, vibrating fans in wintering buildings lead to losses in hives near them, but wonder if the occasional passing train would be a problem. Has anyone any data on bee sensitivity to noise or vibration that might apply? >> Allen, I can't speak for the effect on bees, though I suspect it will be significant. I think the question is not whether the bees will notice, but whether they will adapt. And your comment on the fans might answer that. I can speak for the effect of trains on the area. I know of a community well (six feet in diameter) that can be pumped at 500 gallons per minute without lowering the water level more than a couple inches. A heavy freight train going by (tracks are right next to the well) can raise the water level 12-18 inches. I would not want to live on that type of ground. The right kind of earthquake wave would instantly liquefy the ground under your feet...... It is an old valley in the bedrock that was entirely glacially filled with sand and gravel (depths of a couple hundred feet, at least) and now is a major aquifer for the area. Anyway, the weight and vibrations from a train definitely affect the area...... Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Home Page: http://www.pollinator.com The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles): http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 18:17:36 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Beekeeperc@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Combining HIves MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If you are using two deeps place one swarm in the bottom and the other in the top box placing a sheet of newspaper between the deeps. Put a couple of small holes in the newspaper. The phermones from the two swarms will mix together and they will get along fine. As for the queen one of them will have to be elimated. Good luck. Norm ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 19:46:28 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rick Smits Subject: (no subject) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Has there been any research done on feeding bees lactose sugar? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 17:11:38 PDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GREGOIRE@ENDOR.COM Subject: Re: Entrance Reducer for Winter MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hello Gang, Do not install any entance reducer. A wind break is much better. Ventilation is better with just a simple piece of tar paper stapled to the hive body front so as to over lap the landing area of the bottom board. This blocks the wind and still allows the bees to get air from the triangle shaped air gap that is made from the hive body to the bottom board on the sides of the entrance opening. There should be a space large enough for your fist at each side of this over lapping piece of tar paper. The wind will not have a direct path into the hive and air can circulate. In addition to this get a insulating board and place it between the inner and outer cover. Homesote is good, it absorbs moisture and insulates. Make a groove in the Homesote cutting from the hole in the inner cover and the same width as that hole running to the back of the hive. Cut this slot about 3/8 inch deep and make sure that the slot reaches the outside of the hive. This will conduct moisture from the inner hive to the outside world while it is in vapor form. It will condense outside rather than inside where it can hurt the bees. A 4 by 8 foot sheet will make 14 of these insulating boards. I dado the edges to make it fit as an insert, flush to the inner cover except for the grove, which conducts the warm moist hive air to the cold outside winter air. Years ago , abc&xyz's had a picture of this board in it. Richard Bonneys book, Hive management that I think had a similar photo too, but I lent that book to my grandson so I don't know for sure. Slatted racks add to the winter safety of the bees by providing an internal wind break. All my boxes have a 3/4 inch hole in them just below the handle and these stay open all year. If the bees want a hole closed up then they will close it. A wind break allows for air movement while keeping out the icy blasts. They gotta have air. Moving air, but not too much. Ernie Gregoire "Beekeeper," def.= partially brave, partially excentric Grist Mill Apiary Canaan, NH. USA ------------------------------------- 10/08/99 17:11:38 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 11:51:48 -0500 Reply-To: lithar@midwest.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: AL Subject: Re: Combining HIves MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Beekeeperc@AOL.COM wrote: > > The phermones from the two swarms will mix > together and they will get along fine. As for the queen one of them will > have to be elimated. Good luck. > > Norm So far when combining swarms, I've had success in letting the bees decide which queen stays. If both swarms are freshly caught, which they have been in my situations, I just spray them down with a weak solution of vanilla, toss 'em together into a deep brood box and let them figure things out. I suppose there's a risk of one swarm taking off but that hasn't happened - yet. AL ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 17:59:46 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Guy F. Miller" Subject: "Mind your own beeswax" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I was showing and talking about bees at a country event over the weekend, and a young boy asked me where the saying "Mind your own beeswax" came from. For the non Americans on the list, it means "Mind you own business." I have no idea of the origin. Anybody? Guy F. Miller "Start every day with a smile, and get it over with." Charlottesville VA W.C. Fields ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 21:05:19 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: JCooper Subject: Re: "Mind your own beeswax" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Random House Historical Dictionary of American Slang, (J. E. Lighter, editor), cites beeswax as a jocular, "intentional malapropism." ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 23:52:04 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jean-Francois Lariviere Subject: Re: Bees and Trains MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We kept a couple of hives on the rooftop of our 6 story apartment building in Manhattan for the period of a year. A subway station is only 45 ft from our building and we could feel the vibrations from the subway. The hives were also placed next to the Elevator shaft, which also generated noise and vibrations. The only noticable difference with these hives (compared to hives in Upstate NY) was an increased use of Propolis. The frames were always very, very well secured. But, their behavior, summer and winter, was not disturbed. Bee Healthy, Jean-Francois Lariviere President, BeeHealthy Farms 242 W. 104th St. Suite 1EF NY NY 10025 http://hometown.aol.com/BeeHealthy/beehive.htm << Has anyone had any *actual experience* with wintering bees near railway tracks? I suppose I'll have to observe carefully when a train goes by to see if I can notice any vibration through the ground that far away. Has anyone any data on bee sensitivity to noise or vibration that might apply? >> ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 09:37:09 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pollinator@AOL.COM Subject: Bees, Beekeepers Clobbered by Illegal Spraying! Comments: cc: mhood@clemson.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bees, Beekeepers Clobbered by Illegal Spraying! Barren Spring Predicted for Farmers, Gardeners 10-10-99 Conway, SC: The environmental destruction of Hurricane Floyd has now been augmented by the destruction of pollinators, one of our most important environmental resources, during ongoing pesticide misuse by county officials. Farmers who lost their crops this year from drought and flood, will likely lose more next year from lack of pollination. Horry County has many crops that require bee pollination, including strawberries, blueberries, watermelons, cantaloupes, and cucumbers. Gardeners will find their cucumbers curled and knotty, and their melons small and tasteless from lack of bee visits to the blossoms. Malathion is being used in a massive assault against mosquitoes. Unfortunately, when misused, malathion seems to cause more damage to bees than to mosquitoes. In areas that were sprayed yesterday, mosquitoes were still fierce, while bees were dead and dying. It is obvious that these daytime applications are not only illegal, but ineffective as well. The malathion label prohibits application while bees are foraging in the application area, but county sprayers seem to be getting away with ignoring the label directions and spraying full-tilt while bees are out doing their work. Bees foraged today from 9:45 AM to 6:20 PM. This was determined by observations of bees carrying pollen to the hives, and/or by actual sightings of bees on the flowers. But county mosquito control personnel refuse to monitor the times that bees forage, which is necessary, if they are to comply with the law. Sunday morning, after bees began foraging, L. W. Rabon, of Aynor, SC, observed aerial applications over his home bee yard and other yards beginning at 10:50 and repeated passes occurring for about an hour. Bees had definitely begun foraging, so this was a clear violation of the malathion label. He has serious damage to his bees, with many dead and dying bees at the entrances of the hives. Beekeepers know that many of the bees never make it back to the hives, so the damage that is seen is only a part of the total. I estimate Rabon's damage to be in excess of $10,000 when all is said and done. Requests to the Department of Pesticide Regulation, the Attorney General and the Governor have met with stonewalling so far. What really hurts is that Extension Apiary Specialist, Dr. Mike Hood, has been totally silent, despite pleas for help for beekeepers, in the form of official monitoring of forage times, and helping beekeepers determine when label violations are occurring. We would think that, of these, the extension bee man would be the best advocate for bees and beekeepers. Perhaps the list members could add their pleas for him to GIVE US SOME HELP! His address is mhood@clemson.edu The applications continue today, probably in violation.... More info is available at a special web site created for this situation: http://members.aol.com/gardenbees/ Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Home Page: http://www.pollinator.com The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles): http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 09:27:27 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Feeding bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello All Suppose I feed my bees say 20lbs of sugar syrup, what weight of consumable stores end up in the combs as the result of such feeding?. Thanks for any help Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park, Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland Tel + 353 1 289 5269 Fax + 353 1 289 9940 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 17:41:13 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Feeding bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello All I recently wrote: >Suppose I feed my bees say 20lbs of sugar syrup, what weight of consumable >stores end up in the combs as the result of such feeding?. I should have added that the syrup is 2:1 ie 2 kilos of sugar to 1 litre (1 kilo) of water. Sorry for this omission. Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park, Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland Tel + 353 1 289 5269 Fax + 353 1 289 9940 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 12:03:49 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Feeding bees In-Reply-To: <199910111646.MAA24572@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Suppose I feed my bees say 20lbs of sugar syrup, what weight of consumable > >stores end up in the combs as the result of such feeding? > I should have added that the syrup is 2:1 ie 2 kilos of sugar to 1 litre (1 > kilo) of water. That's the mix we use for fall feeding. Spring too, for that matter. How much weight gain can you expect from a given amount of feed? That's a million dollar question. There are theoretical answers, but I doubt anyone will ever answer the question definitively for all practical situations, since there are so many complex factors involved when bees are not kept isolated from the environment. Having said that, I'll try to sketch in the factors involved so an educated guess may be possible: At this time of year, there are normal daily weight losses taking place in hives up at our latitudes. Old bees are dying off, stores are being condensed and the final capping is taking place. If the hives were nicely settled down and semi-dormant before the feeding starts, then the metabolism of the hive is increased by the stimulation of the feed. Bees will become active to deal with the opportunity, and the hive's background daily metabolic weight loss will ramp up to a higher plateau for the duration of the feeding. This results in accelerated weight *loss* for the duration of the stimulation (feeding) and a for a while thereafter. At minimum, fall feeding must be sufficiently heavy to pay back this more or less fixed cost. Only after that is accomplished, do the hives begin to gain weight that will stay with them after the feeding period. Remember: spring stimulative feeding deliberately ramps up the hive metabolism and encourages brood rearing and foraging by providing small dilute amounts from time to time. This is the opposite of what we want to do in the fall. If a small amount is fed (a gallon or less), the feed may actually not raise the weight of the hive much, if at all, and brood rearing may resume or increase, actually negating the weight gain from the feeding, consuming stored pollen, and wearing out the bees. On the other hand, if large amount is fed quickly, then it will be usually stored fairly efficiently. There are naturally, some losses associated with the effort of converting to invert sugars, the energy consumed in warming the feed and transporting it, and in evaporation of the water component. Ambient temperatures and humidity will have an effect on this, as will the condition of the hive and the combs which are to be filled, and the location, the temperature and the concentration of the sugar syrup fed. The gains that arise directly from the feeding alone are hard to isolate. Bees are often flying around looking for things on a nice day, even when the hives are settled, or partially settled for the season. Sometimes there may be a potential or actual light flow available which will complicate any effort to evaluate the gains from feeding; the stimulation of feeding may draw them away from the alternate (free) source, or conversely stimulate them to discover it or to exploit it more fully. On top of that, feeding may cause some robbing of your hives by neighbouring bees or vice versa, further complicating the measurement. Some types of bees may be stimulated to fly much farther than others by feeding activities, and may lose more of their populations due to fighting or other factors. Diseases such as nosema will affect the ability of the bees to utilize syrup provided. We have always intended to weigh two yards, feed one a measured amount of feed leaving the other unfed, and then calculate the weight gain/loss in each. I doubt that the results would be conclusive, and I think I would have to repeat it many times and take an average. I have always felt in many of the experiments that I have run, sometimes involving thousands of hives, that the effect of outside factors is often larger than the effect I am attempting to measure. No matter what I do, and how many hives I use in a test, I cannot get the neat tabulated results that the researchers do using only a few hives. Never could figure that one out. Anyhow, all in all, in my experience, when hives are fed all the 67% sugar syrup they will take in a short period of time, we figure the weight gain will be roughly equal to the sugar content of the feed. That allows about 15 to 20% energy consumption in the storage and conversion. However we find that when 40 hives share 500 pounds of feed or less, we are lucky if they stay the same weight and don't lose, so be aware that feeding significantly lesser amounts than a gallon may not accomplish any gain, and may actually result in overall weight loss. allen Thanks to all who wished me a happy birthday :) ----- See if your questions have been answered in over a decade of discussions. BEE-L archives & more: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Bee-l.htm Search sci.agriculture.beekeeping at http://www.deja.com/ or visit http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee to access both on the same page. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 14:05:13 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ian Watson Subject: Re: Feeding bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nick Wallingford has a very useful page of calculators on his site. For the one you are looking for, you need to know the volume of syrup or the weight of the sugar. From this it looks like the bees would store about 9 pounds of honey from 20 pounds of sugar at 2:1 Here is the url: http://www.beekeeping.co.nz/convert.htm#sugarstore2 Ian Watson > >Suppose I feed my bees say 20lbs of sugar syrup, what weight of consumable > >stores end up in the combs as the result of such feeding?. > > I should have added that the syrup is 2:1 ie 2 kilos of sugar to 1 litre (1 > kilo) of water. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 12:54:39 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: Re: lactose Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Has there been any research done on feeding bees lactose sugar? According to my copy of "The Hive and the Honeybee", lactose is poorly digested by bees. I used to use skim milk powder in my pollen extender mix, but it was the most expensive ingredient. Whey powder is really cheap, and sweet (about 70% lactose), and I bought some intending to use that, but after rereading the info, I decided to just feed it to calves. Calves did very well on it. Stan ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 09:14:42 EDT Reply-To: mnasr@evbhort.uoguelph.ca Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Medhat Nasr Organization: Environ. Biology & Horticulture Subject: Re: Integrated Pest Management for Varroa and AFB reporting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Dear Tom: In Ontario we have been working on development of IPM program for parasitic mites (Tracheal mites and varroa mites) over the last 7 years. This program is based on monitoring the mite infestation level in bee colonies. We sample every bee yard by taking a composite sample of about 300 bees from the yard in the fall and spring. An equal number of bees/ hive is taking in yard samples. 250 bees are dissected to check for tracheal mites. If the mite infestation is < 10% no treatment will be required. If mite infestation is >10% treatment is required. For monitoring varroa mites, we use natural fall of mites on sticky boards in 24 h. If the number of fallen varroa mites/hive/24h is 5-10 in spring treatment is required. In the fall if the number of fallen (Late august-early September) is >100mites/hive/24h treatment is required. For the IPM treatment program, we are using the following tools: 1. Trachreal mite- Hygienic bees developed in Ontario for the last 7 years. 2. Formic acid single application pad (250 ml of 65% formic acid/hive). Hives treated with a single application pad for 21 days. 3. Use of Apistan. 4. Extra protection for Wintering bees. IPM Program: 1. Spring: treat with formic acid. 2. late spring and summer: requeen with mite resistant stock. 3. Fall: treat with Apistan. 4. winter protection boxes Early in the program we used to treat in spring and fall with formic acid in addition to Apistan in the fall. We found in our research that fall formic acid treatment is not necessary when we use Tracheal mite resistant- Hygienic bees. Sofar this program is working in Ontario for the last 5-7 years. Our colony mortality is down from 40-50% to about 10% for the last 3 years. We are adding using drone brood for trapping mites to the program. Efficacy is being determined. Testing for Apistan resistant varroa showed that varroa mites in Ontario are susceptible to Apistan. Although, we have have been using Apistan for the last 8 years, mites have not developed resistance to Apistan. This is one of the advantages of alternating formic acid with Apistan and reduction of Apistan treatment into a single treatment in the fall. Development of an IPM program should be done and tested in each location to determine sampling time and efficacy. Thus, results will be reliable. IPM Program is an expensive program but it pays off in the long term. Medhat Nasr. results are Medhat Nasr, Ph.D. Research Scientist, Ontario Beekeepers' Association Dept. Environmental Biology University of Guelph Guelph, Ontario, Canada N1G 2W1 Tel: (519) 824-4120 Fax:(519)837-0442 e-mail: mnasr@evbhort.uoguelph.ca ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 16:59:33 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Hugo Thone Organization: Alcatel Telecom Subject: Re: Integrated Pest Management for Varroa and AFB reporting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Medhat Nasr wrote: > > . > . > For monitoring varroa mites, we use natural fall of mites on sticky > boards in 24 h. If the number of fallen varroa mites/hive/24h is 5-10 > in spring treatment is required. In the fall if the number of fallen > (Late august-early September) is >100mites/hive/24h treatment is > required. > These figures for natural fall seem extremely high to me. I have been monitoring natural mite fall this summer during approx. 2 months : I counted max. 5 mites/hive/week (I was not using sticky boards) ^^^^ When I treated my colonies at the end of August with Apistan, the mite drop increased to a few hundered mites the first two days and then decreased very fast. This corresponds with what I found on a danish website : natural mite drop x 100 = real varroa population in the colony. cheers, Hugo (the half a bee) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 12:48:50 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: FREE BEEKEEPING CLASSIFIEDS are working again MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just a note to let everyone know that the popular FREE BEEKEEPING CLASSIFIEDS are working again (I hope), after a period of difficulties. If you are not familiar with FREE BEEKEEPING CLASSIFIEDS, it is 'a place for beekeepers and suppliers worldwide to advertise bee related websites or coming events of interest to beekeepers such as courses or meetings and to trade bees, supplies, etc... You may Post Ads to buy or sell new or used beekeeping supplies, equipment or bees, or to advertise courses, products, services or websites of direct interest to beekeepers. Dealers, publishers and traders are welcome, too.' If you have been wondering about whether it would be right to try posting an ad to BEE-l or sci'agriculture.beekeeping and concluded it would be in poor taste, you are probably right. But all appropriate ads are welcome on FREE BEEKEEPING CLASSIFIEDS. BTW, I'm using a new system at Delphi for the ads, and am not sure how everyone will like the way it works, so please let me know if you think it is an improvement, or you find it cumbersome or unsatisfactory. The new site accepts pictures and HTML in ads and supports direct email responses, so I hope everyone loves it as much or more than the old site. THe old site is still there with all the ads going back several years. I suppose I should delete some of the old ads, but some of the stuff is still for sale. Maybe I should ask everyone to repost on the new site any items or events that were posted more than six months ago on the old site so I can delete the old material. Please? To get to FREE BEEKEEPING CLASSIFIEDS go to http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee and choose the 'Free Bee Ad Page' link or go direct to http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/BeeAds/ Enjoy. allen ----- See if your questions have been answered in over a decade of discussions. BEE-L archives & more: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Bee-l.htm Search sci.agriculture.beekeeping at http://www.deja.com/ or visit http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee to access both on the same page. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 16:26:22 -0400 Reply-To: admin@beeworks.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: FGMO Revisited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Chris Slade wrote >David is doing what he does best - beekeeping. On top of that he is >showing us that he is an observer and has the will and the resources >not only to experiment but also to share his results with the world. >Pause for applause. >On the other hand, David is also showing us that he is not a >scientist -this is not a criticism, neither am I. Surprise, a supporter at long last! I was beginning to think trying to give information was a total waste of time, as all I got was criticism. There has been conflicting reports on the use of FGMO, one or two reported they had tried it-successfully, still others who were quite vehement in their distrust etc. IMHO it works, it's the delivery method that requires refining, plus the dose rate for hives of various sizes. Bill Truesdell wrote >Dr. R ran tests of the same method of application and abandoned >it since it did not work. So we have two observations and two >separate conclusions. Sorry, incorrect, I think if you read his work on Barry's pages you'll find he didn't abandon it at all, this list drove him off to continue working on it all from a different angle. There are some who consider the methods of this list to be damaging to original thought. Destructive to say the least. Blane White wrote >As for the lower populations in mating nucs that is what I >would expect based on the biology involved i.e. these are small >colonies that never raised much brood and had frequent breaks in >broodrearing. Under these conditions varroa populations are unable >to build up quickly due to the breaks in broodrearing and may even >decline. I would expect the varroa populations to be considerably >lower in the nucs than in full sized colonies in the same location. Here is a classic. Drawing 'conclusions' without all the facts. Our baby nucs have no breaks in brood, well perhaps a couple of days at most. We work very hard with the logistics problem of keeping them full and in brood all the time, as soon as a queen is ready to be harvested a cell is ready to refill it. With the information out of Alberta recently regarding the longevity of Varroa on ostensibly dead brood, I don't believe a short break in brood has such a noticeable impact on mite quantities, after all they live all winter and expand rapidly in the spring, a long time in our area. Some time ago Aaron renamed this list "Informed DISCUSSION of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology" If I may be so bold to point out the word 'discussion', because of the actions of a few, this list suffers for lack of it. If you persist in shredding others views soon there won't be discussion, only questions, the answers will come off list and only benefit the one who raises the question. I am quite dismayed by the amount who wrote to me direct expressing their views re. FGMO and their reluctance to post knowing they would be taken to task by the critics. Nothing is achieved by criticism. What it does do, is to demean the writers viewpoint at a time when we should be encouraging experimentation regarding alternative treatments, as it's up to us, the beekeepers. You won't find help from the 'establishment' on free alternative treatments, new chemistry-yes. Note how quickly Coumaphos has been accepted as a regular treatment for Varroa? So, a simple request, if you can't say something pleasant, say nothing, there are some not so thick skinned. ***************************************** The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada.L3V 6H1. Phone (705)326 7171 Fax (705)325 3461 David Eyre, e-mail http://www.beeworks.com This months special:-Vest/veil combination **************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 17:33:40 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Bees and trains MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have kept bees on the top of a railway cutting for 15 years. I can feel the vibrations through my feet as trains pass by when I am working the bees. The bees don't seem to notice and neither do the trains. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 20:49:32 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Paul S LeRoy Subject: Exporting queen bees Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Can any of the queen breeders on the list please advise me if there is any way to ship queen bees to St Vincent and the Grenadine Islands? Would like to introduce some genetic variety as well as a more gentle bee as the stock out there seem to have become quite aggressive. Please answer direct to pleroy@wctel.net as the answer probaly is not of interest to others. Thanks in advance, Paul LeRoy ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 21:47:07 -0400 Reply-To: admin@beeworks.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Integrated Pest Management for Varroa and AFB reporting In-Reply-To: <199910121528.LAA00717@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 12 Oct 99, at 16:59, Hugo Thone wrote: > These figures for natural fall seem extremely high to me. > I have been monitoring natural mite fall this summer during > approx. 2 months : I counted max. 5 mites/hive/week > (I was not using sticky boards) ^^^^ > > When I treated my colonies at the end of August with Apistan, > the mite drop increased to a few hundered mites the first two > days and then decreased very fast. > This corresponds with what I found on a danish website : > natural mite drop x 100 = real varroa population in the colony. I also question the numbers, but might I suggest that the lack of sticky boards would skew the numbers. I've also found the bees will carry mites out of the hive and drop them on the alighting board, without sticky boards to catch and hold the mites numbers could be all over the place. It's quite remarkable how far these mites can travel. I watched one in a tray we use for drop tests move (walk?) a considerable distance, how far it could go I'm not sure as I gave up at 2.75 inches. Incidently that same tray had live mites 4 days after the test, without any food of any sort. Tough little devils to say the least. ***************************************** The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada.L3V 6H1. Phone (705)326 7171 Fax (705)325 3461 David Eyre, e-mail http://www.beeworks.com This months special:-Vest/veil combination **************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 05:53:22 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jorn Johanesson Subject: Re: Integrated Pest Management for Varroa and AFB MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: Medhat Nasr Til: BEE-L@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU Dato: 12. oktober 1999 15:22 Emne: Re: Integrated Pest Management for Varroa and AFB reporting >Development of an IPM program should be done and tested in each >location to determine sampling time and efficacy. Thus, results will >be reliable. > >IPM Program is an expensive program but it pays off in the long term. We have had a varroa research proram for several years here in Denmark in several locations. Those investigations clearly shows that it is possible to treat against Varroa without using Apistan or the like, but using formic acid and spring or autumn treatment with oxalic acid. Why we in Denmark is avoiding fluvalionate is the risk for contamination of the wax and thereby the risk for contamination of the honey, because of accumulation of the fluvalionate contamination. We are working with food, and as so we have to take care of as clean food to the customers as possible. That we can take care of that is shown in the fact that all honey in Denmark can be sold to a price equal to 5 Canadian Dollars a 450 g jar, while we don't trust the imported Canadian Honey that much. Canadian honey is sold in Denmark for about 3 Canadian Dollars a 450g Jar. a workers salary here in Denmark is about 20-25 Canadian Dollars an hour. I am working on a translation of the Danish report, and with help from beekeepers from the list I hope to finish it in reasonable time. The report will be available on my web for download when it is finished. Best regards Jorn Johanesson EDBi = multilingual Beekeeping software since 1987 http://home4.inet.tele.dk/apimo (Denmark) http://apimo.dk (USA) apimo@post4.tele.dk Jorn_Johanesson@apimo.dk ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 23:26:45 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Integrated Pest Management for Varroa In-Reply-To: <199910121528.LAA00725@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I have been monitoring natural mite fall this summer during > approx. 2 months : I counted max. 5 mites/hive/week > (I was not using sticky boards) ^^^^ > > When I treated my colonies at the end of August with Apistan, > the mite drop increased to a few hundered mites the first two > days and then decreased very fast. > This corresponds with what I found on a danish website : > natural mite drop x 100 = real varroa population in the colony. This latter result seems to me to be very much in line with what we found in early September. At that time we got one mite in 40 hives in 24 hours by natural mite fall, but then found about 51 as I recall using a 24 hour 2 strip Apistan test on the same 40 hives (see my earlier post for details). However we were using sticky boards. I'm curious how you counted the drop without them. Were you using a screen bottom and paper? At the time we tested, there was anywhere from a frame to three frames of brood in the colonies, so I am assuming that there were many more mites in cells than on bees. If the Danish site used a one week natural fall, their benchmark (700 -- *assuming* that the one mite we got with natural drop in 24 hours can be multiplied by 7 to get a 7 day drop) would be very close to what I estimate. Personally, I have a lot of trouble understanding the idea of leaving more than *a handful* of mites in a colony going into wintering because of the fact that if there are a few hundred -- or thousands -- of mites going into winter, we know that they are going to go into the first several hundred -- or thousand -- cells sealed when the bees raise brood in January and reduce the vitality and life expectancy of that limited amount of brood and the very important first bees, n'est-ce pas? Maybe a few hundred bees is not many, and this is acceptable once you get used to the idea, but I have problems with it. A few hundred cells is only a few square inches and the bees raise a hundred or more square inches once they start up, but anything that damages the bees makes them even more vulnerable to the factors that already cause us hive losses in early spring. Maybe I'm missing something? Anyhow, I don't know how many have visited the varroa resources on my "Varroa and Formic" page which is accessible from the menu on the left side of http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/. If you have not been there and you are interested in the subject, I invite you there now. There is a tremendous volume of material to be found from the links. In spite of all the sources and links listed there, I must confess, however, that I have learned far more and far faster from the books listed on that page than from all the web pages I have catalogued, the discussions I have read, and the lectures I've attended. (There is another book that I have lent or misplaced as well, and maybe I'll be able to list it later). I recommend the books most strongly. It's not that I'm ungrateful for the advice and help I have received on the net and this group. The encouragement and pointers received here have been invaluable to guide and encourage, but there is no substitute for the knowledge crammed into those books. Interestingly enough the books I mention were written early in this decade, and there does not seem to be much new since then -- that I have been able to discover. Europe has had varroa for several decades now, and the Europeans have tried pretty well anything imaginable. The 'new' ideas in North America are pretty much old hat in Europe. It will be interesting to see what the big breakthrough will be. I know it's coming... allen ---- See if your questions have been answered in over a decade of discussions. BEE-L archives & more: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Bee-l.htm Search sci.agriculture.beekeeping at http://www.deja.com/ or visit http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee to access both on the same page. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 06:51:31 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard Drutchas Subject: FGMO - Revisited Comments: To: Bee-List MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David, just to clear up the facts, are the bees from the mating nucs coming from apistan treated hives. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 07:33:38 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: FGMO Revisited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Eyre wrote: > Bill Truesdell wrote > >Dr. R ran tests of the same method of application and abandoned > >it since it did not work. So we have two observations and two > >separate conclusions. > > Sorry, incorrect, I think if you read his work on Barry's pages > you'll find he didn't abandon it at all, this list drove him off to > continue working on it all from a different angle. There are some who > consider the methods of this list to be damaging to original thought. > Destructive to say the least. It was reported to me that Dr. R is using the fogger method of application since previous methods of application did not work. He has abandoned the top bar and wick methods. I also get emails from those who are afraid to post on this list when FGMO is mentioned. Also on Barry's pages are all the reports by Dr. R.. If you read the first ones they are very convincing that the top bar application method gave good results. The main concern was the number of times one had to apply the oil. So the wick method was proposed. It now appears that other factors were at work, since when the tests were conducted by others, varroa was not checked at all. If challenging the statement -FGMO works- is not appropriate for this list, that would damaging to not only origional thought but any thought. But this is not a hobby beekeeper list. It is supposed to be a little more advanced than that. And if an absolute statement is made with only one data point, expect it to be challenged. To not challenge it would be wrong. Bill Truesdell ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 21:41:29 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: daems frans Subject: Trip to Orlando. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Beekeepers, On december 17th I am visiting Orlando, Tampa, The Everglades and = Clearwater beach. Who is prepared to see us for a little visit to the = bees. I am interested in a small dicussion about the method of working, = the crops and the offer of different beeproducts to the marked. You can = fix yourself the time that you will spend on our visit. We are normalyy = with 4 persons. Thanks for your reactions Best regards Frans Daems (mail to: Jozef.Daems@Skynet.be) (Web site: http://www.users.skynet.be/bijen) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 00:18:15 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bernie Duggan Subject: Re: Feeding bees In-Reply-To: <199910111812.OAA27688@listserv.albany.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" On 11/10/99 at 12:03 Allen Dick wrote: >There are naturally, some losses associated with the >effort of converting to invert sugars I have read that when making fondant (candy), adding Cream of Tartar will invert the sugar. Is it possible to use this or any other catalyst in preparing feeding-syrup? Regards, Bernie Duggan White Rock Ogwell Cross Denbury Devon England ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 04:53:45 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Feeding bees In-Reply-To: <199910141033.GAA07975@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I have read that when making fondant (candy), > adding Cream of Tartar will invert the sugar. > Is it possible to use this or any other catalyst > in preparing feeding-syrup? There are exactly 19 matches under 'tartar' in the BEE-L archives and 30 under 'tartaric acid' in the BEE-L logs. The ones I looked at answered the question from many angles. allen ----- See if your questions have been answered in over a decade of discussions. BEE-L archives & more: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Bee-l.htm Search sci.agriculture.beekeeping at http://www.deja.com/ or visit http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee to access both on the same page. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 07:37:09 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Feeding bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bernie Duggan wrote > I have read that when making fondant (candy), > adding Cream of Tartar will invert the sugar. > Is it possible to use this or any other catalyst > in preparing feeding-syrup? Cream of Tartar does increase bee mortality, but not so you will see it. The best feed is cane sugar dissolved in warm, not boiling, water. That is from British scientists who ran tests many years back. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 07:16:36 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: FW: Sting remedy from sci.agriculture.beekeeping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit : >Question #1: do I need a prescription to get an Epipen? : yes : >#2: The next time I get stung by a yellow jacket, will the reaction be any : >different? : yes, you could very possibly die Speaking of which, I was just re-reading the last chapter of _The_Hive_ _and_the_Honey_Bee_ last night (the chapter that talks about sting reactions and allergies). One of the things that was pointed out was that, in the U. S., only about 40 people die every year from insect sting allergies (which is far less than the 300 or so who die every year from penicillin allergies, for example). This number incidentally includes wasp, hornet, and ant stings, as well as honeybees. This is out of the estimated 0.4% of the population (about 1 to 2 million people) that has a potentially life-threatening reaction to stings. So, it sounds like even the serious reactions are more frightening than anything else, and not really that likely to kill, particularly if the victim gets reasonably timely treatment. That isn't to say that you shouldn't get an epi-pen, and get treatment if you are having a generalized reaction (as opposed to a large local reaction, or a skin-only reaction), but it sounds like it isn't anything to get terrorized about, either. This chapter had a lot of other interesting information in it, I recommend that everyone interested in these things read it. If nothing else, it will make you less likely to blindly accept it when somebody tells you, "I'm terribly allergic to beestings, if I'm stung, I might die." It turns out a lot of people have been very misled about these things. Tim Eisele tceisele@mtu.edu _____________________________________________________________ Deja.com: Before you buy. http://www.deja.com/ * To modify or remove your subscription, go to http://www.deja.com/edit_sub.xp?group=sci.agriculture.beekeeping * Read this thread at http://www.deja.com/thread/%3C7tt1o4%24rcg%241%40campus3.mtu.edu%3E ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 10:06:20 EDT Reply-To: mnasr@evbhort.uoguelph.ca Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Medhat Nasr Organization: Environ. Biology & Horticulture Subject: Re: Integrated Pest Management for Varroa MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hugo Thone wrote: > These figures for natural fall seem extremely high to me. > I have been monitoring natural mite fall this summer during > approx. 2 months : I counted max. 5 mites/hive/week > (I was not using sticky boards). The natural fall numbers that have been used is based on using a sticky board placed on the bottom board of a bee hive without any chemical treatment. The level of mites that require treatments vary from on location to another. Therefore, research needs to be conducted in various locations to find the economic threshold and timing for treatment. Mussen recommended treatment in California, USA if August insert yield 20-200 mites/24 h /day. Hoopingarner in Michigan recommended summer treatment if >10 mites found on sticky boards within 24 h. Delaplane and Hood justified treatment in August in Georgia and South Carolina, USA if number of fallen mites reach 117 mites/day. In Ontario Nasr and Mcrory recommend treatment in late August-early September when fallen mites is 50-120 mites/day. These mentioned figures can be used as a guide line for starting the treatment of bee colonies. Thus, we can avoid treatment according to the Calender which in some cases may be too late or too early. The purpose of treatment is to protect bees from varroa mites, to have enough time to make honey and harvest the honey, and to ensure having healthy bees for the winter. Cheers Medhat Nasr Medhat Nasr, Ph.D. Research Scientist, Ontario Beekeepers' Association Dept. Environmental Biology University of Guelph Guelph, Ontario, Canada N1G 2W1 Tel: (519) 824-4120 Fax:(519)837-0442 e-mail: mnasr@evbhort.uoguelph.ca ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 10:19:08 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Thom Bradley Organization: Thom's Honeybees Subject: Re: FGMO Revisited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Barry Birkey wrote: > > Just so people are informed on this, Dr. Rodriguez's latest report posted on > my web page was precisely on FGMO applied in fog. > -Barry > The report is written in a form showing it is ready for publication. I would very much like to see if it can be published in a peer review journal and the findings duplicated. The work seems to describe a very economical and effective way to control mites. In particular, the "observation" is made that there is a good reason to test for tracheal mite control as well. I have been following these threads closely during my recent hospitalization and see where the communication breakdown occurs is in realizing good observation is required in order to identify areas of research. Informed observation is as important as a well done experiment. Also, we do not expect our researchers to also delve into the practical aspects of large scale commercial beekeeping. It would be unfair to disallow practical beekeepers to publish astute observation since there is no claim of scientific method. Practical method does not always include formal control measures. If I am trying a new way to load the bees on my trailer, I will not institute a control, I may simply recall my past experience. Sometimes my quick conclusion is that it didn't work here but, in this other circumstance it would be of advantage. No need to write a paper and submit it for review. The next time I see Art or Woody and say" Hey, I tried it this way..." They can accept, reject or submit it for trial. Sometimes it is happily accepted. Sometimes an item of derision. Always taken for what it is. It is never, ever criticized for the submission as it is intended and the observation, half-assed test or research is not miss represented as otherwise. All are important and I expect all to recognize these as such, and an expected, respected an important part of the discussion. Thom Bradley Chesapeake, VA Thom's Honeybees ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 09:01:37 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Glen van Niekerk Organization: Onderstepoort Biological Products Subject: Wax melting Hello to all on list! I have made a solar wax melter and have it in full operation. One problem that I am experiencing is that when I use nice new combs from wild hives that I have captured everything is melted, but as soon as I use old to very old combs it does not want to work as well.If I leave it longer it becomes hard and then I have to scrape it out, but it still does not want to melt. Does anybody have any solution to this problem? Glen van Niekerk South Africa ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 15:42:39 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Scott Moser Subject: Honey Stores MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings all, Here in eastern Missouri, the dry weather really hit home this fall. I have been feeding my hives sugar syrup for quite a while now. Stores in the hives are not great. I was wondering if I should go into each hive, and arrange the stores that are there, so the majority of the honey is in the upper box, or leave it alone where it is. I was concerned that so much major change inside the hive might demoralize a colony that has enough stress already from the dry fall, and lack of fall flow. Any ideas out there. Feel free to e mail me direct. Thanks! Scott Moser ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 18:14:10 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Exporting queen bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Importing a different race of bees into the Islands may give an immediate improvement in docility but as soon as the next generation comes along and the bees crossbreed look for a marked deterioration. You may jump out of the frying pan into the fire. I suggest culling the worst you have and breeding from the best before trying imports: once you start importing you will probably have to continue. Chris Slade