From MAILER-DAEMON Sun Feb 13 07:12:57 2000 Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA08315 for ; Sun, 13 Feb 2000 07:12:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02310 for ; Sun, 13 Feb 2000 07:12:56 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200002131212.HAA02310@listserv.albany.edu> Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 07:12:56 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8d)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG9910D" To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Content-Length: 69645 Lines: 1515 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 00:50:33 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "W. Allen Dick" Subject: Re: Formic, Lactic and Oxalic Acid for Fighting Varroa Comments: To: seppo.korpela@MTT.FI On Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:39:58 +0200, Seppo Korpela wrote: >This solution is the so called original italian solution... > ...ca. 300 colonieswere treated fall 1998 in Nordic countries > with either 2.1 or 4.2 % (original italian) oxalic acid solutions > using the trickling method. This experiment did not show in > most cases differences in colony strengths in spring between > experimental groups and the control group. Tests planned > for this fall should show whether doses somewhat lower than > the original italian solution ... Here's an update: I recently received by email a copy of results of similar work published in la revue suisse d'apiculture for September 1999. I gather that the conclusions were that the original Italian solution is a bit strong for central and northern europe in the opinion of the writers, and and can lead to winter losses when compared to a slightly milder solution that proved equally effective in mite kill. The report is very nicely written with charts and is presented in a .pdf format. It is in French, but non-french readers could probably get something out of the tables if they are sufficiently motivated. The file can be retrieved from my server at http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Misc/ATT00007.pdf and is only a 45k download. An Acrobat reader, available free at http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readermain.html is necessary to view the file. Usually your browser will automatically open the reader to view a PDF file if you have it installed when you click on a PDF link. The doc also refers to a brochure "Varroa Treatment by Oxalic Acid Trickling, field Trials 1998/1999" which 'presents these results in an exhaustive manner' and can be gotten at Liebefeld. allen ----- See if your questions have been answered in over a decade of discussions. BEE-L archives & more: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Bee-l.htm Search sci.agriculture.beekeeping at http://www.deja.com/ or visit http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee to access both on the same page. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 06:05:50 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: FW: Honey Prices from sci.agriculture.beekeeping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Charlie Kroeger [mailto:ckrogrr@frankensteinface.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 1999 7:50 PM To: sci.agriculture.beekeeping@list.deja.com Ellen Anglin ask: > OK- so if I make up propolis ticture, what do I tell people it is for? Ahh..tell them it's big medicine. There is a book called: "The Miracle of Propolis" by Mitza Vosnjak. He published this in 1978. Mitza is a guy that became enthusiastic about propolis after hanging out with beekeepers and a country doctor that used propolis tincture on his patients, especially children with fever. Mitza was also a Yugoslav Ambassador to the GDR and is apparently known as a poet and novelist. Judging from Mitza's writing style in "The Miracle of Propolis" he tends to express himself along the style of Victorian melodrama and his writing suffers from excessive tedium; but, I'll give him a break, as maybe this is how Jugoslav sounds when translated into English. However, he went on to include some interesting results from "reasonably" scientific experiments. If you take everything in the book as presented, there would be no reason to have any other medicines in your house but propolis, if you were injured topically, or ill or becoming ill, or had pimples. There are chapters on propolis healing ulcers, (this is believable now that they know ulcers are caused by bacteria) and young girls clearing up their facial blemishes, and healing infected dental wounds, and a prophylaxis for the flu. Propolis is also represented as a natural antibiotic, and a cure for cancer (question mark) and test results to indicate many viruses vanquished. Although every publication about keeping bees will give a fearless description of what propolis is, and how bees collect resins from the trees and do their sacred mantra " hummmm" over it and other mysterious incantations and only then is it transformed into propolis and gets spread all over the inside of the hive. I'm not so sure I've ever read a satisfactory explanation of exactly why propolis seems to be such a steady state in the universe, like beeswax. In other words, to say that resins are collected and used by the bees as propolis is a very weak answer to what exactly propolis is, and if I was writing a book on bees, I wouldn't presume to know what it is or how, precisely, it's produced. If there are those among us who feel they can post a factual account regarding this substance and how it's done, I would enjoy reading it. If you have any dealings with propolis you will know that it's nothing like the resin from trees, so the question is what do the bees do to produce this stuff that is practically insoluble in naturally occurring liquids, save alcohol, which in itself is not so natural in the strengths required to tincture propolis. The bees literally cover everything in the hive with it. As soon as a new wax cell is used to raise a bee for the first time, it gets a coating of propolis for every subsequent egg laid in that cell. If the combs are used for years, they are completely black with propolis. Anyone that has melted down old brood comb knows that propolis "capsules" are not easily changed by the heat required to melt the wax. In fact the amount of propolis capsules produced compared to the wax rendered, is not so good, unless you just have a lot of time to spend for a little wax, and not such a good quality wax either. Old brood combs on clapped out frames make impressive fire starters if you have a fireplace, a better thing to do with them if you're like me, and only have a small number of hives. Getting back to Mr. Vosnjak's book, in a chapter he titles: "the medicine of tomorrow" he talks about a meeting of doctors, veterinarians, pharmacist, chemists, biologist and microbiologist and they called it the: "Second International Symposium on Propolis, Bratislava, 1976" and I quote: >The symposium on propolis consisted of sixty reports on its value in > mending broken bones, speeding up cell growth, curing diseases of > mucous membranes, skin, high blood pressure, and various other conditions. >The organizer of the symposium, Dr. Chizmarik from the University of Bratislava >was able to report that science had been able to analyze more than half of the >components of propolis. Only three and a half years earlier, at the first symposium >less than a third of the components had been isolated. >A scientist from Halle in Germany had been trying to establish which of all the >substances in propolis had the highest value, which was the most effective in the > fight against microbes. Many times he thought he was on the brink of finding >the answer. It would be of real value, since factories throughout the >world would be able to use his discoveries to produce a medicine from >the most useful substance. But it seemed that this would, afterall, not >be achieved for some time: to date research has not been able to >surmount the unexpected difficulties which arose almost at the end of >the research programme. Perhaps there is not just one substance in >propolis which is more valuable than all the others; perhaps propolis >exist only as a whole, and can only be repoduced by one factory in the >entire world, the beehive! MY EXPERIENCE: We use propolis tincture at our house. We believe and have experienced evidence of it's abilities in calming an upset stomach when taken with a mint tea. (recipe to follow) to lowering and removing a fever, and inducing a relaxed feeling that promoted sleep. We take it in tea if we feel we are catching a cold or flu. We use it as a topical dressing on small wounds much like the medical experts use iodine. It has an effect on skin problems from fungus (it does not cure the fungus, but stops the itching) to fever blisters. Basically it does everything Echinacia does without Echinacia's side effects and allergies associated with that herbal remedy. We have never experienced any side effects from propolis tincture. We take propolis internally as follows: To a mug of boiling water add an infusion of mint. It can be a mint tea bag. We like celestial seasonings peppermint, also Taso "refresh" and to the tea add the juice from 1/2 of a small lemon, and sweeten to taste with lots of honey. Now add a 1/2 teaspoon (5 cc.) of the 1:2 propolis tincture to the tea and give it a stir. Propolis tincture has a strong "medicinal" smell and flavor that may necessitate the use of more honey. To use the propolis topically, just dab a "Q" tip or cotton swab (puds to you Aussies) in the tincture and paint on. >What are the selling points for thes $25 bottles? There are two big expenses in the way I sell propolis, one is the fancy glass bottle, it looks nice like an old fashion apothecary bottle with a glass top that has a way to dispense drops of the tincture by turning the ground glass stopper. The ethanol I use, is from the local liquor store (off license) and is sold with a lot of tax. It's called "everclear." I pay about $10.00 for a pint. (16oz. 473 ml.) If you had a neighbor that made good moonshine, white lightening, corn squeezings, and the like, and would trade you a bottle of that for one of honey, you would lower your cost considerably. By the fact that I'm mixing up 250cc amounts for each dispensing bottle, I really have to buy two pints of everclear because I don't have a centrifuge to recover that part of the tincture within the undissolved bits left over. I loose about a fifth of the overall amount. That means $10 for the dispensing bottles, and $20 for the alcohol, and hopefully $50 in sales for the two bottles to cover harvesting, processing, and bottling. Plus the "X" factor one is invited to believe propolis offers. Now, in America, the American Medical Association (A.M.A.) has at least as many lobbyists in Washington to bribe the lawmakers as Monsanto, and they take their position as guardians of the prescribed drug very seriously. I will just say that to avoid the AMA calling their man at the FDA (Federal Drug Administration) to dispatch the black helicopters to our house and have their agents break down our door and shoot our pets and wreck our house, clap us in irons, and confiscate our bottles of propolis, because it may have been construed that I was prescribing medicine (now known as medications) without the proper credentials and that I may have suggested a better course for the common cold than say an antibiotic, that, believe it or not, is still prescribed by some licensed general practitioners for that common endemic illness; in short, I'm not telling you that propolis can cure any illness, I'm just relating my experience and certain details of Mr. Vosnjak's interesting book. Charles Kroeger ----- See if your questions have been answered in over a decade of discussions. BEE-L archives & more: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Bee-l.htm Search sci.agriculture.beekeeping at http://www.deja.com/ or visit http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee to access both on the same page. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 17:12:36 +0200 Reply-To: Apiservices - Gilles Ratia Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Apiservices - Gilles Ratia Organization: Apiservices Subject: New free services offered by the Virtual Beekeeping Gallery!!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi all, The Virtual Beekeeping Gallery now has an extremely efficient system for Beekeeping Classified Ads (BCA). This is a free service (make the most of it, the Gallery receives over 30,000 visits a month!) and can be found at the following address: http://www.beekeeping.com/photoads/ The classified ads come under 8 headings: 1) Honey (trading) 2) Other hive products (royal jelly, pollen, beeswax, propolis, venom, etc.) 3) Bees (hives + colony, swarms, queens, etc.) 4) Beekeeping equipment (extractors, pumps, honey ripeners, trucks, etc.) 5) Jobs (situations vacant and wanted) 6) Training, courses (offered, wanted) 7) Pollination (contracts) 8) Miscellaneous (other beekeeping items) Don't hesitate to put forward any other useful headings to: webmaster.AD@apiservices.com The system contains a host of powerful functions: A) When submitting a Classified Ad: - you will be able to enhance it with one of your own photos - you will be able to select its running time, 1, 2 or 3 months - you will receive your own password enabling you to return and change the text or image, renew the ad for another 1, 2 or 3 months or to simply delete it - you will receive a warning by email ten days before its expiry date - your email address cannot be seen within your classified ad (nor in the HTML code for each page) thanks to advanced Smartmail technology. As a result it will not be snapped up by the robots that spam our electronic mail boxes. People interested in your ad will write to you via a form which also uses Smartmail technology. B) When consulting the Classified Ads : - you are able to home straight in on the Classified Ads due to a powerful key words' search function - if you are after a particular item and would like to avoid returning to the ads section every day, you have the option of subscribing to a free warning system. To do this, you define the key words you are interested in, for example "extractor" and "propolis", and you will be informed by a personalized email each time one of these words appears in a classified ad posted after your last visit. We hope this already popular service, over 50 Classified Ads in the first few days, will prove useful to you. Warning! This classified ads section is not to be used for discussions. For discussions, go to the following address: http://www.beekeeping.com/forum/ These pages contain: 1) three Apiservices forums (FAQ, Poisoning and International Honey Market) 2) seven Apimondia forums (Apitherapy, Biology, Beekeeping equipment, Economy, Flora and Pollination, Pathology, Rural Development) 3) an SPMF forum (Honey adulteration) Thank you for reading through right to the end. Any suggestions to improve our services will be most welcome. Once again, many thanks. Best regards, Gilles RATIA Beekeeping Consultant Webmaster of the "Virtual Beekeeping Gallery" President of the Apimondia Standing Commission on Beekeeping Technology and Equipment APISERVICES Beekeeping Development "Le Terrier" F-24420 Coulaures - FRANCE Phone: +33 (0)5 53 05 91 13 Mobile: +33 (0)6 07 68 49 39 Fax: +33 (0)5 53 05 44 57 Do not dial (0) out of France Email: gilles.ratia@apiservices.com Web: http://www.beekeeping.com and http://www.beekeeping.org and http://www.apiculture.com and http://www.apicultura.com and http://www.imkerei.com and http://www.apiservices.com Latitude : N 45° 17' Longitude : E 001° 01' _________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 22:10:06 -0400 Reply-To: admin@beeworks.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Queen- cell infestation with varroa mites In-Reply-To: <199910201555.LAA27065@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 20 Oct 99, at 9:24, Allen Dick wrote: > > shrinking brood nest. In commercial queen rearing the starter > > colonies often have very little open brood. They are then given large > > numbers of grafted queen cells to accept and/or finish. Mature varroa > > mites then have little choice and will enter queen cells under these > > conditions. Of course, due to the short period of development and > > pupation, no varroa nymph will mature in a queen cell, but the damage > > done by the adult mite and its immature brood is sufficient to render > > the queen larva a runt and incapable of ever performing as a queen. It > > is a pity that the work cited above did not examine the number of > > ovarioles of damaged gueens; just as in drones, the hidden damage is > > affecting the queen's quality, not its looks. Infestation by several > > mites killed queens in sealed cella and up to 50% of cells did not > > emerge at all. It is a comforting thought that varroa mites ' rarely > > enter queen cells under natural circumstances. This was my thinking and the reason for instigating FGMO for all our hives during the summer, in an attempt to keep Varroa down to manageable amounts to prevent queen damage. Does anyone have experience of this problem? ***************************************** The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada.L3V 6H1. Phone (705)326 7171 Fax (705)325 3461 David Eyre, e-mail http://www.beeworks.com This months special:-Vest/veil combination **************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 14:08:42 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Queen- cell infestation with varroa mites Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello All Allen Dick wrote: > > In commercial queen rearing the starter > > colonies often have very little open brood. Why not place a frame of open drone brood into queen rearing colonies, to ensure (as much as one can), that the mites do not enter the queen cells by giving them far better options with the drones?. Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park, Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland Tel + 353 1 289 5269 Fax + 353 1 289 9940 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 15:35:16 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Barricklow, Walt" Subject: hive beetle MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In putting the hives in order for winter, Ive found a hive beetle = infestation, in all the hives that I checked. Does coumaphos work in the = hive. What about outside of the hive on the ground, any known chemicals = that can be sprayed. I put all my hives on boards, trying to stop the = trip to the ground, surrounding each one of my hive with at least 3 feet = of wooden ground barrier. If I was to move all of the hives out of a = particualr area. Will all the beetles be dead by spring, or do they = just keep recycling. We have very mild winters in South Carolina. I = never saw any beetles until now, and only in the one yard. Any help = will be greatly appreciated. Walt in Sunny SC =20 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 17:33:40 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Subject: Re: hive beetle Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Walt - Do you know for sure what kind of beetle you have? Have you had the beetles tested for identification? Before moving ahead with treatment, I would suggest you know for sure what you're dealing with IF you haven't yet. I say this because I had small beetles in my hive this spring that looked like THE small hive beetle but testing proved otherwise. Do you have beetle larva in the hive or just adult beetles? > In putting the hives in order for winter, Ive found a hive beetle = > infestation, in all the hives that I checked. Does coumaphos work in the = ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 21:41:09 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Excluder Variability Comments: cc: "sci.ag.bee" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, I've been wondering, with all the talk of big bees and little bees and whether virgins can get through excluders, what the facts are. No one has presented any numbers, so I decided to measure some excluders that we have accumulated over the years. I've put the results at http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Misc/Excluders.htm rather than plug up the list with the numbers. We did not have any zinc excluder or 5 mesh hardware cloth handy when we were measuring. Both work nicely as excluders, so if anyone has any measurements for these, I'd appreciate the input. Now that I'm thinking about this, I wonder about the origin of excluders and who did the original work. It appears that the various brands and ages (up to 40 or 50 years old) of excluders we have are all built to pretty much the same gap specs, even if the wire size and orientation does vary. I might mention here that the variations in the older excluders shown in the table did not seem to bother the bees at all. All the excluders seemed to work very well. We see only a handful of queens above excluders in a year - much less than 1%, and some excluders I come across have wires bent enough that there is almost double the normal gap in one or two small spots. As far as whether virgins can get through excluders as some have asserted here, it is my understanding that although the abdomen is somewhat compressible and also varies with the condition of a queen, it is the thorax size that determines whether or not a bee can get through the gap, and that this characteristic does not vary over the life of a queen. Is this true? Anyhow, all this leads to the questions: * How wide a gap could we have in a successful queen excluder? Would a wider gap work just fine and make things easier for the bees and beekeeper? * Is the present excluder specification a result of careful repeated research or copycats of one successful design? * How much do various strains and individual specimens of currently popular honey bees vary, and if using varying sizes of foundation results in different bee sizes as suggested, should we be using matching excluders? allen ----- See if your questions have been answered in over a decade of discussions. BEE-L archives & more: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Bee-l.htm Search sci.agriculture.beekeeping at http://www.deja.com/ or visit http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee to access both on the same page. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 20:52:04 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Harry Goudie Subject: Re: AFB, CONTROL W/O ANTI-BIOTICS Comments: cc: GREGOIRE@ENDOR.COM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > The colony is manipulated by shaking all of the bees out of the infected > hive, it is then held in a box for three days in order to consume > any honey in the bees stomachs, and then placed in a brand new hive > on foundation. I also like this method. The only thing I have question is the length of time that the bees are sealed in their box. When this method was first explained to me the bees had to be starved and when I asked how you knew they were starving the answer was when they are seen to be dying. Perhaps three days would be sufficient - I am not sure. Harry, Scottish Bee Issues:- http://www.luichartwoollens.freeserve.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 19:47:20 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Marc Studebaker Subject: Re: Tools to bed for winter MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Amy Thompson wrote: I was wondering what you >experienced beekeepers do to put your tools to bed for the winter? How do >I clean my veil, and get the propolis and grunge off of my gloves? Should >I oil or sharpen anything? Do I need to do anything to the smoker? Freeze your gloves and scrape off the propolis, then wash off the honey with dishsoap and water. They will be stiff after they dry until you use them enough to soften them up. Wash your hive tool. Your veil and smoker are fine. The main reason to clean your hive tool and gloves is to prevent the spread of disease. Marc Studebaker Geneva, IN. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 06:59:58 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: AFB, CONTROL W/O ANTI-BIOTICS In-Reply-To: <199910251212.IAA27318@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > When this method was first > explained to me the bees had to be starved and when I asked how you knew > they were starving the answer was when they are seen to be dying. Frankly, I doubt bees that have been starved will ever amount to much, unless they have a long time until winter and lots of ideal conditions. allen ----- See if your questions have been answered in over a decade of discussions. BEE-L archives & more: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Bee-l.htm Search sci.agriculture.beekeeping at http://www.deja.com/ or visit http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee to access both on the same page. > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 10:07:56 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pollinator@AOL.COM Subject: Fall Culling (was: Re: AFB, CONTROL W/O ANTI-BIOTICS) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/25/99 6:27:39 AM Pacific Daylight Time, allend@INTERNODE.NET writes: << > When this method was first > explained to me the bees had to be starved and when I asked how you knew > they were starving the answer was when they are seen to be dying. Frankly, I doubt bees that have been starved will ever amount to much, unless they have a long time until winter and lots of ideal conditions. >> I agree. This is introducing new stresses in addition to the loss of brood, pollen and honey feed. I have done this a number of times, with usual success, without the starvation idea. I simply put the bees on foundation and feed them heavily with HFCS. I doubt that many spores survive the experience. If they are still so weak that they break down again, I'm not sure I want that stock. I sometimes wonder if I want the stock anyway, but sometimes I do this early in the season, which is not now, in the northern temperate zone. Which brings up a thought I like to remind newbies of, each year at this time... And that is CULLING. Culling is the flip side of good breeding. As you look over your hives and prepare them for winter, look at them closely. If you see weak hives, greasy looking bees, chalkbrood, sacbrood, EFB, sour smell (to be distinguished from the smell of goldenrod nectar), poor pollen stores....any sign that you have weak genetic stock, it's time to eliminate them now, and focus your energy into the rip-roaring bees you'll want to breed from next year. You waste far more energy (and money), in nursing along junk, which may not survive the winter (or if it does, will still require nursing in the spring), than you will in making up new hives from good stock next spring. A good beekeeper will routinely cull 10-20%, sometimes more, in the fall. The bees can be combined with good colonies, but don't combine two or three poor colonies, and still wind up with a sorry queen. Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Home Page: http://www.pollinator.com The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles): http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/sweetlit.htm ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 08:50:02 -0700 Reply-To: JamesCBach Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: JamesCBach Subject: Tools to bed for winter MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Amy asks how to care for her beekeeping tools: I wash my coveralls, veil, and leather gloves in the washing machine, when they get too dirty looking, at medium water level. I spray all heavy propolis and soiled spots on the gloves and coveralls with Spray-N-Wash (clothing stain remover) first. Let the spots soak for an hour or two before you wash. I also add one half cup of S-N-W to the wash. Use warm water so that you dislodge the propolis but do not melt it to the barrel of your machine to be picked up by delicate clothes at the next wash. I then put the coveralls and gloves (give them a stretching) in the dryer on medium heat for 20 to 30 minutes. The veil can be dried in a towel and then hung up somewhere to dry. Upon taking the gloves from the dryer I stretch them again and put them on, bend the fingers, make a fist etc. to give them a good stretching. You can also rub a leather softener into them when you have them on, do the inside if you wish. I clean my hive tools by scraping one with the other and washing them with rubbing alcohol. I then sharpen both ends with a medium file, or sharpening stone. Hive work, wax and propolis removal is easier if the tools are sharp. James C. Bach jbach@agr.wa.gov jcbach@yvn.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 12:42:50 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Dr. Malcom (Tom) Sanford" Organization: Dept of Entomology/Nematology, U. of Florida Subject: Small Hive Beetle MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I agree with Barry. You should first make sure that the beetles are indeed small hive beetles, Aethina tumida. Information on small hive beetle is found at: http://www.ifas.ufl.edu/~mts/apishtm/threads/smbeetle.htm and http://www.ifas.ufl.edu/~insect/misc/bees/small_hive_beetle.htm Tom Sanford ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Publisher of the APIS newsletter: http://www.ifas.ufl.edu/~mts/apishtm/apis.htm To electronically subscribe, send the following to listserv@lists.ufl.edu: subscribe Apis-L First Name Last Name ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Author of "Beekeeping in the Digital Age" http://bee.airoot.com/beeculture/digital/ =========================================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 13:28:34 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter@AOL.COM Subject: Fwd: Tools to bed for winter MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_0.88e93a7a.2545ed42_boundary" --part1_0.88e93a7a.2545ed42_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --part1_0.88e93a7a.2545ed42_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: BeeCrofter@aol.com From: BeeCrofter@aol.com Full-name: BeeCrofter Message-ID: <0.ae2aba68.2545ed0d@aol.com> Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 13:27:41 EDT Subject: Re: Tools to bed for winter To: jcbach@yvn.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows sub 11 I run a sharpening service. So far the best way I have found to do a hive tool is with an abrasive flap wheel. This allows you to thin the tool so it slips into the cracks between supers easily. Alternately sandpaper tacked to a board works well, I favor the silicon carbide wet or dry paper used in automotive work. --part1_0.88e93a7a.2545ed42_boundary-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 14:07:19 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Tools to bed for winter In-Reply-To: <199910251834.OAA08438@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > So far the best way I have found to do a hive tool is with an abrasive flap > wheel. This allows you to thin the tool so it slips into the cracks between > supers easily. Alternately sandpaper tacked to a board works well, I favor > the silicon carbide wet or dry paper used in automotive work. We sharpen a lot of hive tools. A normal body shop angle grinder works for us. We place the grinder so that it is positioned like a gramophone turntable, then hold the tools so that the surface to be ground is flat on the disk. We then grind a little, look, then adjust our angle, if required and grind some more. The hooked (scaper) end we just grind to the factory angle. The other end usually does not need grinding unless it is a bit bent or chipped. When necessary, we start by squaring the end, then slightly grind both flat surfaces. After that, if it is too sharp, we deliberately dull the sharpened end very slightly by grinding a slight flat so that the end does not act like a knife, but rather wants to go into the crack between boxes. allen ----- See if your questions have been answered in over a decade of discussions. BEE-L archives & more: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Bee-l.htm Search sci.agriculture.beekeeping at http://www.deja.com/ or visit http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee to access both on the same page. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 15:14:17 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Hector Morales Sanchez Subject: Inquiry In-Reply-To: <199910191425.KAA16020@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello all Beemails I was looking for some information about the Confederação Brasileira de Apicultura and only found this: c/o Paulo Gustavo Sommer Rua Milton Carneiro, 369 Pilarzinho 80520-630 Curtiriba - PR Brazil Does anyone have any general information which I may use or liks on the WWW regarding to this University? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 18:41:17 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Qheen cell infestation with Varroa mites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tom's suggestion of adding a frame of open drone brood to queen rearing colonies should solve the problem of Varroa infestation. However, the drone larvae will have to be fed and they will be competing with the queen larvae for a share of a finite quantity of royal jelly/ brood food. Without human interference the normal hive will produce only a few queen cells but a few hundred drones. It is likely therefore that the drones may be fed preferentially although this is an untested hypothesis. Perhaps the drone brood should be added when it is fully fed and ready for sealing. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 11:15:31 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Lino E. Matuka" Subject: =?iso-8859-2?Q?Re:____Confedera=E7=E3o_Brasileira_?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here is just a clue: try to mail to apismeralda@softservice.com. They are webmastering the Brasilian bee sites, so they could know. Lino Lino E. Matuka Maneci pneumatika packing machines, Zagreb, Croatia www.maneci.hr maneci-pneumatika@zg.tel.hr ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 06:47:29 -0400 Reply-To: mpalmer@together.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Palmer Organization: French Hill Apiaries Subject: Re: AFB, CONTROL W/O ANTI-BIOTICS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A friend of mine told me of a colony he had that was starving. "Barely twitching" they were. This was late spring. He had no sugar on the truck. Poured a Coca-Cola all over them, and stuck the label between the supers so he'd remember which colony it was. The colony recovered and made a good crop of honey. Allen Dick wrote: > > When this method was first > > explained to me the bees had to be starved and when I asked how you knew > > they were starving the answer was when they are seen to be dying. > > Frankly, I doubt bees that have been starved will ever amount to much, unless > they have a long time until winter and lots of ideal conditions. > > allen > ----- > See if your questions have been answered in over a decade of discussions. > BEE-L archives & more: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Bee-l.htm > Search sci.agriculture.beekeeping at http://www.deja.com/ > or visit http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee to access both on the same page. > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 07:37:24 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Queen cell infestation with Varroa mites In-Reply-To: <199910252306.TAA16962@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Chris Slade wrote: > Tom's suggestion of adding a frame of open drone brood to queen rearing > colonies should solve the problem of Varroa infestation. However, the drone > larvae will have to be fed and they will be competing with the queen larvae... > Perhaps the drone > brood should be added when it is fully fed and ready for sealing. Chris Slade Well, ready for sealing drone brood might not offer much of a window for the mites to enter the cells prior to sealing. I imagine mites on the bees sealing the cells would have ample opportunity to enter the drone cells, but I imagine those mites on bees performing other duties may not find their way into cells prior to sealing. However, Harbo has done some impressive experiments showing how powerful an attractant is drone brood, so perhaps there would be a massive immigration. Considering the dynamics of varroa population and cell builder colonies and time of year when each are "building", I opine that the benefit of drone brood to capture varroa would outweigh the hinderance of competing for food. A properly set up cell builder colony should not have much else to do other than feed cells, whether they're queens or drones. In a properly set up cell builder, the "limited supply" of brood food is not that limited. Furthermore, it was stated that it takes really high levels of varroa to have them target queen larva. I imagine that a single cycle of a single frame of drone brood during the 6-8 weeks of a cell builder colony's usefulness would be sufficient to keep varroa populations in check. Competition should be negligible. For the record, this is all speculation and opinion not backed up by any data collection or scientific method, but not without informed consideration. Might be on target, might be pure crap! Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 08:38:48 PDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GREGOIRE@ENDOR.COM Subject: Re: AFB, CONTROL W/O ANTI-BIOTICS Comments: To: Harry Goudie MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=iso-8859-1 <> Hello Harry, and gang, I do not think that anyone knows for sure. That is an educated guess for me. If I do get to try this technique I will keep records and try to learn from what happens. My philosophy is to over winter nothing but robust colonies. Should hives show themselves to be anything less than robust in August, I combine them with other strong colonies. This gives the combined hives time to gather copious amounts of golden rod and aster nectar. I am a student of the Richard Taylor Principle. "Strong colonies in the Fall make strong colonies in the Spring." I realize that there is no guarantee in agriculture, but we can hedge our bets by stacking the odds in our favor. I distribute the assets of the weaker ones to the stronger ones, be that bees, capped honey, or pollen. So doing helps the bees to handle AFB on their own. Ernie Gregoire "Beekeeper," def.= partially brave, partially excentric Grist Mill Apiary Canaan, NH. USA ------------------------------------- 10/26/99 08:38:48 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 11:18:50 -0400 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Organization: ACB Dept., Univ of Michigan Subject: Re: Small Hive Beetle MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dr.Malcom lists two excellent links for the small hive beetle, the second with some good photographs. However, these photos are really quite small (even when clicking on their links) for clear identification purposes. Following the first link leads to another, gnv.ifas.ufl.edu/~entweb/aethina.html, which has very good enlarged shots of the adult, larva and larvae in cells. These should be very helpful to anyone making a preliminary identification of the beetle. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 09:29:29 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Queen cell infestation with Varroa mites In-Reply-To: <199910261239.IAA01367@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Tom's suggestion of adding a frame of open drone brood to queen rearing > > colonies should solve the problem of Varroa infestation... > Well, ready for sealing drone brood might not offer much of a window for the > mites to enter the cells prior to sealing.... This all seems to be a lot of bother. What's wrong with adding an Apistan Strip if in doubt? Or using bulk bees that had Apistan treatment? One does not normally produce honey on cell builders or nucs, so almost any treatment that kills v-mites and does not affect cell building should be okay. allen ----- See if your questions have been answered in over a decade of discussions. BEE-L archives & more: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Bee-l.htm Search sci.agriculture.beekeeping at http://www.deja.com/ or visit http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee to access both on the same page. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 11:14:38 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: LJConnor@AOL.COM Subject: Email Newsletter on bee books and related items. Comments: To: BEE-L@cnsibm.albany.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Bee-L member: Starting very soon, I will issue an Email Newsletter on bee books and related items (video tapes, slide sets, and other educational stuff). I expect each Newsletter will be about a page long, and will appear once or twice per month, depending upon the amount of material available. Some issues will discuss new titles. Others may go into one subject area at a time. For example, one Newsletter may deal with books on bee mites, the next on books on propolis. And, borrowing and idea from a local wine shop, there will be special discounts and promotions in most letters. These prices will be offered only in the email notice. But you may forward the letter to anyone you know who might be interested, and I will honor the discount. I will BCC (blind copy) all mailings, so your screen name should not appear on a long list on the letter. This should insure your privacy a bit. To subscribe, just send me your name and your screen name, and ask to be included on the new Email Newsletter on bee books. Contact me at LJConnor@aol.com. That's all there is to it. And you can always be taken off the list. Just let me know! Larry Connor, Ph.D. Wicwas Press P.O. Box 817 Cheshire, CT 06410-0817 Voice phone with digital answering machine: 203 272 6574. Fax 203 250 7575 LJConnor@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 08:10:09 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Lackey, Raymond" Subject: Turkey Visit MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I expect to be visiting Turkey, Ankara Region, in a couple weeks. Since Turkey is one of the ten largest honey producing countries in the world, I'd love to visit beekeepers in the area if possible. If anyone has a contact in the area, I would appreciate hearing from you. Raymond J. Lackey Sweet Pines Apiary Honeybee Consultant - North American Fruit Explorers Master Beekeeper - Eastern Apiculture Society/OSU Past President - Long Island Beekeepers Association Speaker -BOCES (schools) and LI Speaker's Association ~60 colonies(honey) >18 years experience on Long Island Phone:(516)567-1936 FAX:(516)262-8053 mail: 1260 Walnut Avenue, Bohemia, NY 11716-2176 web page: http://www.tianca.com/tianca2.html email home: lackey_rj@dtnhome.com email office: lackeyr@hazeltine.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:47:46 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Dr. Malcom (Tom) Sanford" Organization: Dept of Entomology/Nematology, U. of Florida Subject: Re: bees for Guam? Comments: To: jhl@kuentos.guam.net MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Dear Mr. Lawrence, I would be extremely careful about importing any honey bees as this practice is fraught with all kinds of potential problems. It is the way many exotics have been brought to all parts of the world. Guam should know this very well, given television shows here emphasizing the brown tree snake phenomenon. I would strongly recommend trying to work with what is already there, rather than importing something that in the end might make the Guam situation worse than it is. At any rate, I am passing on this note to the bee-l discussion list. Perhaps someone from Australia or New Zealand might be of some help. "lawrence, john h." wrote: > > Dr. Sanford: > > I am writing to inquire about sources of queen bees. A local farmer, who > has significant experience with bee keeping, has been trying > unsuccessfully to bring in bees from the mainland. Permits are not a > problem, it is just finding a willing vendor. > > Apparently the bees must travel 'below decks' in the plane and the > temperature and other conditions put the cluster under too much > hardship. I don't know about this but I am sure that if bees can > overwinter during a hard winter in W. Washington, where I am from, they > should be able to tolerate an 8 hour plane ride? > > The local bees here, while gentle, don't really produce well. This > farmer would like to increase his hive numbers, from a couple of dozen > now, to a couple of hundred. There is only one commercial hive operation > on island now with about 250 hives. > > Could you recommend any commercial vendors willing too ship us some > queens? Might New Zealand be a better source? > > Also, are you aware of two recent? ICMOD publications: > > Bee Flora of the Hindu Kush-Himalayas. Uma Partap. ICMOD 1997 > Pollination Management of Mountain Crops through Beekeeping. Uma Partap. > ICMOD 1999 > > Both can be ordered on line from the ICMOD webpage. I find them > interesting and well development sources of information. Our crop area > here is limited so most of the foraging by bees is done on native or > introduced plants. Coconuts are a major source of production! > > any search engine should pull up the ICMOD URL for you. > Use "ICMOD and Bees" as keywords. > > I look forward to hearing from you. > > Best regards, > > John H. Lawrence > Soil Conservationist > USDA-NRCS > Pacific Basin, GUAM > > 671.735.2111 > 671.735.2110 fax > > jhl@kuentos.guam.net -- =========================================================================== Dr. Malcolm (Tom) Sanford, Extension Apiculturist, University of Florida Bldg. 970, P.O. Box 110620, Gainesville, FL 32611-0620 Ph. 352/392-1801 ext. 143 Fax 352/392-0190 E-mail: mts@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Publisher of the APIS newsletter: http://www.ifas.ufl.edu/~mts/apishtm/apis.htm To electronically subscribe, send the following to listserv@lists.ufl.edu: subscribe Apis-L First Name Last Name ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Author of "Beekeeping in the Digital Age" http://bee.airoot.com/beeculture/digital/ =========================================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 17:15:33 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Stan Sandler Subject: attention Canadian beekeepers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I have written to the bee-l before about Canadian honey labelling laws and did not get any response. However, I know from reading the postings that there are many list members who want to produce unheated and/or unfiltered honey. The way that things stand now, using the terms "raw", "unfiltered", "unheated", and "unpasteurized" are all prohibited on Canada graded honey. And honey that is settled and coarse filtered would have to be Canada No. 3, because it would have some residue on an 80 mesh filter, regardless of whether it met the moisture levels of Canada No. 1 On Nov. 4 there is going to be a meeting between the Canada Food Inspection Agency and a Honey Advisory Committee discussing this matter. Now one would think that the Canadian Honey Council which is on this committee would be pressing for a new grade, but it my understanding that THEY are the ones who asked that "unpasteurized" be a banned term (due to a very complicated situation regarding store brand honeys misusing the word) and the food people were just going along with it, although now they are reconsidering. I know far too little of the politics involved to make any criticism of the Canadian Honey Council (and so I am NOT!), however through the wonder of email and the ease of the bee-l I am able to tell all the Canadian beekeepers who might have opinion on this matter the email address of the Canadian Food Inspection Agency representative who will be at this meeting, and he is open to receiving the opinion of beekeepers who contact him: His name is John McCool and his email is jmccool@em.agr.ca My opinion to him was that we need a new grade called "Canada No. 1 raw" or "Canada No. 1 unfiltered" and that "unheated over x degrees" be allowable. Feel free to send him your opinion (if you are a Canadian beekeeper). Regards, Stan ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 07:43:27 +0100 Reply-To: alan.riach@which.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Alan Riach Subject: Canadian Honey Grades MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ref. Stan Sandler's post on Canadian honey If unpasteurized honey is not allowed in Canada, does this mean that there is no comb honey on sale "officially"? In terms of a new grade "raw" and "unfiltered" are perhaps not the best of marketing words - perhaps best to avoid the bad associative words (raw=meat) and the "un-" words need care although "unheated" would probably be OK.Better words might be "Natural, Hive, Straight.Perhaps the B-L'rs out there who are more market savvy than me can make a few attractive suggestions. Alan Riach Nr.Edinburgh,Scotland ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 16:42:34 PDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Re: Bees for Guam In-Reply-To: <199910271547.LAA08189@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dr. Tom Sanford wrote > At any rate, I am passing on this note to the bee-l discussion list. > Perhaps someone from Australia or New Zealand might be of some help. I for one would be very interested in sending queen bees to Guam and I am sure that other queen breeders in Australia and New Zealand would be also. However, as Guam is officially part of the USA we are not allowed to export to the USA at present but look forward to when we can. It is interesting with honey bees on some of the Pacific Islands. From all accounts there is limited opportunities for honey flows and the bees tend to be low in protein for most of the time and when a good flow does come around, the bees often collapse because of the low body protein. There have been several attempts to establish queen rearing operations on these islands and they have not succeeded because of the reasons given above. In the case of Tonga they found a pollen mite called Edbaralus (or similiar spelling) which resulted in the markets they were sending to (mainly the UK as I recall) placing bans on the imports from Tonga. There was no evidence that these pollen mites would affect Apis mellifera but they were shut out. As these islands do not have any of the parasitic mites at present, I would counsel any one thinking of sending queens from areas that have parasitic mites to places like Guam NOT to. They could get them from Hawaii at present as it is part of the USA and would have no restricitons as we do. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:50:22 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Janko Bozic Subject: Re: Turkey Visit MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Here is one address. Prof. Sorkun is very kind women and has good contacts among beekeepers. I don't have her e-mail. Janko Bozic Assc. Prof. Dr. Kadriye Sorkun Hacettepe Üniversitesi Fen Fak Biyoloji Bölümü 06532 Beytepe-Ankara Turkey Fax: +90 312 299 2028 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 06:57:07 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Canadian Honey Grades In-Reply-To: <199910280711.DAA03533@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > If unpasteurized honey is not allowed in Canada, does this mean that > there is no comb honey on sale "officially"? Comb honey is totally unregulated in Canada, and in export. Importing countries, however do have their own standards. > In terms of a new grade "raw" and "unfiltered" are perhaps not the > best of marketing words... 'Raw' is not necessarily a bad word when used with carrots or peas or other vegetables, and makes people stop and think. I don't know what the answer is. You can read a lot on the topic of packing honey and regulations in the logs. In particular, I said much of what I have to say in my post #9467, dated 24 Jun 1996, available by sending the following order to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU: getpost bee-l 9467 or by reading through the archives at http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Bee-l.htm using keys like 'unpasteurized' and 'unpasteurised' and 'raw' and 'filter'. As for the Canadian regs, I don't know the answer there either. I've been involved in dealing with the regs, honey council, and inspection agency - plus its predecessor over the years -- and am not sure if there even exists a politically acceptable answer to the problem. The above post will perhaps help explain then conundrum that beekeepers and packers are in when it comes to labelling and marketing honey, as will some of the other posts on the topic. BTW, where is the meeting? allen ----- See if your questions have been answered in over a decade of discussions. BEE-L archives & more: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Bee-l.htm Search sci.agriculture.beekeeping at http://www.deja.com/ or visit http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee to access both on the same page. > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 08:44:06 EDT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: John Mitchell Subject: Re: Canadian beekeepers & pasturization MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I have searched the archives for this list and nowhere have I found a clear, definitive statement on whether it is possible to heat honey to a high enough temperature that it would be "pasturized" — and still be suitable for human consumption, and if so, not be so badly damaged that it would be unsalable in the marketplace. Or to put it another way, when my honey customers ask if my honey is pasturized, I tell them there is no such thing as "pasturized" honey because in order to heat it high enough to kill all bacteria, the honey flavor, and maybe even the honey itself, would be destroyed. Honey is only heated high enough to facilitate bottling and filtering. So would somebody please correct me if I'm diseminating wrong information. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 10:51:36 -0400 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Organization: ACB Dept., Univ of Michigan Subject: Re: Canadian beekeepers & pasturization MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit John Mitchell wrote: > I have searched the archives for this list and nowhere have I found a clear, > definitive statement on whether it is possible to heat honey to a high enough > temperature that it would be "pasturized" — and still be suitable for human > consumption, and if so, not be so badly damaged that it would be unsalable in > the marketplace. According to the Chamber's Technical Dictionary (3rd. edition), pasteurization is a process whereby a fluid (such as milk) is heated to 62.8 - 65.5 C (145 - 150 F) and held at this temperature for 30 minutes. I suppose that commercially honey may be heated momentarily to these temperatures (flash heating) to facilitate filtering (as oppposed to straining, which is easily done at 37.8C (100F)), but holding it there for 30 minutes would damage its flavor. Therefore, it cannot be said that honey is ever really "pasteurized", and consequently any label statement that honey is unpasteurized would be unnecessary. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 08:54:04 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Canadian beekeepers & pasteurisation In-Reply-To: <199910281345.JAA08875@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > I have searched the archives for this list and nowhere have I found a clear, > definitive statement on whether it is possible to heat honey to a high enough > temperature that it would be "pasteurised" — and still be suitable for human > consumption, and if so, not be so badly damaged that it would be unsalable in > the marketplace. A quick search at http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/BEE-L/ for 'pasteur AND temperature' with substring search checked gives 23 hits. Several provide the info you seek plus more. FWIW, AFAIK, the pasteurisation time/temperature table is the same for honey as other foods, such as milk and is easily achievable without extreme heat or severe damage. However, AFAIK, pasteurisation does not eliminate spores, and this may be what you are thinking about. I don't think this aspect has been discussed at all. allen ----- See if your questions have been answered in over a decade of discussions. BEE-L archives & more: Search sci.agriculture.beekeeping at http://www.deja.com/ or visit http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee to access both on the same page. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:08:42 -0400 Reply-To: dublgully@fuse.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Judy and Dave Subject: Honey extractor Comments: To: bee-l@cnsibm.albany.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bee Culture had an article a few months back with plans for a one man extractor, handheld, above the head, swinger type of thing. Our beekeepers in our club are relatively new with few hives. A couple decided to try the design. The extractor came out just like the picture. More honey came out in the uncapping phase. 4 men about had heart attacks swinging that thing around. The rest of us about had accidents from laughing so hard. Made for a wonderful bee-type experience. Judy in Kentucky, USA