From MAILER-DAEMON Sun Feb 13 07:13:00 2000 Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA08336 for ; Sun, 13 Feb 2000 07:13:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02328 for ; Sun, 13 Feb 2000 07:12:59 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200002131212.HAA02328@listserv.albany.edu> Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 07:12:59 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8d)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG9911E" To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Content-Length: 23414 Lines: 542 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 18:40:02 -0500 Reply-To: info@beeworks.com Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David Eyre Subject: Re: Smoke substitutes In-Reply-To: <199911271423.JAA18040@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 27 Nov 99, at 9:10, William Morong wrote: > This past season I tried once, and only once, a supposedly wonderful smoke > substitute, that may or may not be similar to what David describes, called > Fabi-Spray. It was horrible, for the following reason. I was the one who introduced Fabi Spray to North America and once again someone has copied without doing any research!! Fabi Spray is not a smoke substitute, it was first introduced as a clearing agent, to clear bees from honey supers. I did some work on using it as a calming agent for angry bees, for which it is perfect. There are some hives that smoke riles them up, instead of calming it makes them even more aggressive, more smoke, more aggression. Fabi Spray is ideal for these types of hive, a couple of sprays and it seems to numb them and stops the aggression dead, ideal for reqeening those angry hives. Whoever sold it to you didn't do you or anyone any favours. The product has a black mark against it, unfairly!! > What level of awareness does Liquid Smoke induce? On discussing it with Jean who has a trifle more experience with it, she prefers Liquid smoke over Fabi Spray. She says and I agree, that Liquid smoke doesn't numb the bees like Fabi Spray, and work in the hive is not interupted. Mind, I suppose it's like all things, sometimes 'a little is better than a lot'. I do know one thing, my old smoker will be given a well deserved rest next year. ***************************************** The Bee Works, 9 Progress Drive, Unit 2, Orillia, Ontario, Canada.L3V 6H1. Phone (705)326 7171 Fax (705)325 3461 David Eyre, e-mail http://www.beeworks.com This months special:- Beekeeping Jacket **************************************** ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 19:18:21 -0500 Reply-To: nickw@beekeeping.co.nz Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Nick Wallingford Subject: Re: AFB, CONTROL W/O ANTI-BIOTICS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_uReach_com_26916734994383470127201xxx_" --_uReach_com_26916734994383470127201xxx_ Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > "Elimination of American Foulbrood without the use of Drugs". The book doesn't so much describe a single 'method' but rather a series of strategies to reduce and ultimately eliminate AFB. It was produced by the Nat Bkprs Assn of NZ as part of our Pest Management Strategy. I may be biased, but I personally think it is one of the most amazingly readable texts I've seen on the subject, one that may not get talked about in places where antibiotics, particularly prophylactically, are the norm. It is scientifically sound (with an extensive bibliography), and incorporates both commonsense and the 'lore' of being a commercial beekeeper that may not often get written down. And the final punchline? BUY THE BOOK - it is well worth it. But you can also go to http://www.nba.org.nz/pms/manual ________________________________________________ Get your own "800" number - Free Free voicemail, fax, email, and a lot more http://www.ureach.com --_uReach_com_26916734994383470127201xxx_-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 08:40:42 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: honey.road@SYMPATICO.CA Organization: My Beekeeping Homepage: http://www3.sympatico.ca/honey.road Subject: Re: AFB, CONTROL W/O ANTI-BIOTICS Comments: To: luichart.wollens@VIRGIN.NET MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi there Harry, I saw the book at Apimondia and snached up a copy right away at 15$ Canadian! Save you money! To Sumerise, burn every hive with AFB! The book apeared good at first, but it contains the reasearch and Statistics for the basis of reducing AFB nation wide in New Zealand. Allen Banks Harry Goudie wrote: > I have received a catalogue form Northern Bee Books today and on the first > page is an advert to a book by Mark Gookwin & Cliff Van Eaton about the > "Elimination of American Foulbrood without the use of Drugs". It would > appear to be of New Zealand origin (the book I mean!) Has anyone read this > or can comment on the method used? > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 10:36:44 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Borst Subject: Re: Oil of wintergreen In-Reply-To: <199911270500.AAA13482@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Greetings, Although I have never tried it near bees, I do know that most muscle rubs contain synthetic wintergreen (methyl salicilate). You can rub on as much as you like of that. Mine also has menthol in it, which may also work as a repellent. Has anyone tried ordinary insect repellents? Adrian wrote: I suspect such compounds work in the same manner as how smoke may work--- by hampering the odor sensing ability of bees for a short while. Interesting. I have heard 3 theories about why smoke works. Either smoke makes the bees think the hive is on fire and they gorge on honey before fleeing, or somehow it breaks down the chemical communication systems, much like a terrible noise (like a jet plane) would effect human conversations. The third theory (my own) is that smoke affects bees like alcohol affects humans: it stupefies them and removes their inhibitions (causing them to gorge on honey). It should be noted that there are many situations when smoke doesn't seem to work at all, like at night or when the bees are already furious. And I understand that it does not effect all insects in the same way. In Eva Crane's "Bees & Beekeeping" there is a list of plant materials and their use as pacifiers or repellents. "Melissa officinalis: rubbing the hands with the leaves is claimed to help in preventing stings." PB ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 08:50:40 -0500 Reply-To: "jfischer@supercollider.com" Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: James Fischer Subject: Microscope for Tracheal Mite Spot-Checks MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Folks: I am sure that everyone has seen magnified photos of bee trachea, infested with Tracheal Mites. What magnification is required to see a bee trachea well enough to spot-check a dead bee for mite infestation? I have noticed several under $50 microscopes in Christmas displays with magnifications ranging from 80x to 1000x. Also, can one do this sort of spot-check with the occasional dead bees found in front of the hives and on the landing board? Do the tracheal mites abandon a dead bee's body? While I realize that I may be viewed as being silly on this last point, I would prefer to avoid killing any bees if I can avoid it, and I assume that a recently deceased bee has a good chance of being an elderly bee, one that has had maximum time to be exposed to mites, and hence, infested. james fischer ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 17:34:01 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Al Subject: Re: FW: altering Ph in bees In-Reply-To: <199911272339.SAA24180@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > A first year beekeeper whom i have been mentoring has an interesting > theory re: Ph balance in bees and the relationship to overall health but > also the possibility of not being as susceptible to the parasitic mites. Ph > balance in humans can be altered to some degree and some believe this helps > fight off illness etc. ie. 1 tbls. of vinegar a day and so on. He has > introduced certain herbs and natural ingredients into sugar syrup and fed > this last spring and fall. This seems to fall into the general work being done with plant oils. There is a great deal of information in the archives, but I must admit this is one of the few posts that spell out what the introduction of the substances is trying to do to the bees to make them undesirable to the mites. I think you should keep an eye on what is going on, take good notes and try and use control hives in your observations (maybe one or two of your own hives would be good for this). Since the mites are "eating" the bees "blood" it is very possible that you can do just what your friend is thinking about, making the hemolymph toxic to the mites. Just remember whatever is being fed to the bees is going to get into the honey, and just because nature made it does not make it safe to eat. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 19:17:14 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ken Hoare Subject: A strange request MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Maybe one of the moderators will be able to answer this one offline, thank you 'Team' in anticipation. A professional microscopist friend has had a request to supply photographs of bee and wasp stings. I can easily supply samples of bees but although a few wasps were about a couple of weeks ago a recent cold spell has sent them packing. My question, are wasps (yellow jackets) still active in the southern states of the USA, maybe my friend would be willing to pay carriage and minimal expenses. Ken Hoare bees@kenlia.enta.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 08:44:42 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Leen and Maria van den Berg Subject: Re: Oil of wintergreen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter Borst wrote : > > In Eva Crane's "Bees & Beekeeping" there is a list of plant > materials and their use as pacifiers or repellents. "Melissa > officinalis: rubbing the hands with the leaves is claimed to help in > preventing stings." > > Last summer I happened to use handlotion with the scent of vanilla and got remarkably less stings than both my fellow workers,sometimes not even one a day. Maria van den Berg. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 12:51:25 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tom Akin Subject: Bitter honey Comments: To: BEE-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Has anyone tasted honey with a bitter edge to it? I harvested our four hives here at the Arnold Arboretum in late June, and then again in very early September. The June crop was wonderful, probably due to all of our Lindens; however, the September crop has an edge to it. The bees were all over the hollies, golden rain trees and chinese sumacs; none of these are in the ericaceous family (rhododendron, mountain laurel, etc), but I am confused as to where the edge is coming from. Any help would be most appreciated. Tom Akin Thomas J. Akin Internship Coordinator/Ass't Superintendent of Grounds Arnold Arboretum of Harvard University tel 617-524-1718 x112 fax 617-524-1418 Visit our web site at http://arboretum.harvard.edu/LC/LC080.HTM ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 14:26:06 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: William Morong Subject: Smoke substitute? "read the label" ? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Thanks to David Eyre for his post on Liquid Smoke, and my apologies if my post unfairly impugned Fabi Spray for its appropriate use. I tried it as a smoke substitute with the results I reported, and my unreported trial of it as a clearing agent was atypical. Its directions are in English, German, and French. The English and French directions emphasize its use as a rapidly deployable defense, to the truth of which I can attest, and which accord with what David wrote. The German part of the label says (translated) "Proven alternative to smoke". It is the German label that caused my trouble. A case where thoroughly reading the label is not good? Bill Morong ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 14:45:27 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pollinator@AOL.COM Subject: Re: A strange request Comments: cc: bees@kenlia.enta.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 99-11-29 10:34:09 EST, bees@KENLIA.ENTA.NET (Ken Hoare) wrote: << My question, are wasps (yellow jackets) still active in the southern states of the USA, maybe my friend would be willing to pay carriage and minimal expenses. >> Got all kinds of them here yet. yellow jackets, red wasps, even a bumblebee or two. Last week I saw a carpenter bee. I can collect YJ's easily, just by breaking some wax blocks outside. They come for the sweet smell. Dave Green SC USA The Pollination Home Page http://www.pollinator.com The Pollination Scene http://members.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop on the Internet (honey & beeswax candles) New! Nativity Set and more! http://members.aol.com/SweetnessL/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 11:52:20 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Elizabeth Vogt Subject: Re: Microscope for Tracheal Mite Spot-Checks MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Mr Fischer: > > As part of my business, I sample hives for tracheal mites (Acarapis woodi). > I use a dissecting microscope with magnification at 60x or higher. At > magnifications much lower than that, it is difficult to see eggs and > immatures. > > For practice, you can certainly sample dead bees. If there is a mite > infestation, you may find some immature mites within the bees. However, > you'll run into a problem with deterioration of the bee, and possibly > misleading information. > > Also, you may want to start with drones; they are larger and easier to > manipulate. > > For an excellent lesson in dissecting for tracheal mites, sample sizes to > consider, etc., see The Beekeeper's Handbook, third ed., 1998, by Sammataro > and Avitabile. > > Good luck ! > > Sincerely, > > Elizabeth Vogt > www.beeinspectionservice.com > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 11:20:21 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Blane White Subject: Re: AFB Today Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Hi Allen, Nice update. Actually, I already knew about confirmed cases of tm resistance in the US at the time these posts were being sent. We had found some in MN. The situation now is much different with oxytet resistant AFB becoming rapidly widespread. Beekeepers are loosing colonies and equipment at a time when low honey prices are really squeezing them. I have even found a commercial outfit here that does contract sterilization using ETO and is willing to treat beekeeping equipment. Of course there is a significant cost for treatment but it is somewhat less than replacement and if you have enough there is a nice volume discount ( the larger volume allows them to fill their chamber ) that makes it less costly per box. blane ****************************************** Blane White MN Dept of Agriculture blane.white@state.mn.us ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 16:34:33 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: AFB Today In-Reply-To: <199911302105.QAA08502@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > ...The situation now is much different with oxytet > resistant AFB becoming rapidly widespread. Beekeepers are losing > colonies and equipment at a time when low honey prices are really > squeezing them. I wonder if the AFB you are seeing is *at all* responsive to oxytet? And I also wonder if there have been any noticeable differences in the strains of bees involved in the AFB breakdowns. > I have even found a commercial outfit here that does > contract sterilization using ETO and is willing to treat beekeeping > equipment. We used to have a big publicly owned ETO chamber here in Alberta, but sold it. There were concerns about the breakdown products of ETO and the many beehive constituents. It also does not work if there is anything in the cells such as honey or pollen. (lots more in the archives). With a drug backup ETO is okay, but I would think that using ETO alone, one would be having a lot of bonfires or making many return visits. Unless there are drugs that can be proven effective, immediate and thorough burning is the only absolute solution and we are back to square one, where we are once again very vulnerable to what our neighbours do. The nice thing about drugs is that it does not matter at all what your neighbour does. If he leaves AFB lying all around the place, you will not have any problems if you use the drugs correctly. At least that is how it used to be. Now if some housewife nearby throws a jar of unwanted Argentine honey into the dumpster you are in big trouble. The interesting thing about this spreading outbreak is that we are seeing a NEW DISEASE invading new territory. Using new equipment, etc. will not prevent it, because it is obviously quickly becoming established in the environment. Resistant bees are the best defence. Hope they are up to the job. I THINK IT IS TIME WE ALL DEMAND HYGIENIC BEES -- AND ONLY *PROVEN* HYGIENIC BEES -- FROM ALL OUR SOURCES. FWIW, This fiasco was entirely foreseeable and preventable. While the North American regulators were focused on imaginary diseases in some offshore bee sources, the real threat went ignored and now is on the shores. Makes one want to go help out at the WTO protest, methinks. allen ----- See if your questions have been answered in over a decade of discussions. BEE-L archives & more: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Bee-l.htm Search sci.agriculture.beekeeping at http://www.deja.com/ or visit http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee to access both on the same page. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 20:41:32 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: William Morong Subject: Translucent materials for hives Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Does anyone have experience with the use of translucent materials, such as natural-colored polyethylene, for hives? Is reliable information available on whether bees of working colonies are hindered, or helped, by diffuse illumination of their hive interior? Bill Morong ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 17:50:25 -1000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Mohsen M Ramadan Subject: Re: Bitter honey In-Reply-To: <199911291856.NAA01644@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Dear Tom: Honey produced from Ivy gourd (Coccinia grandis) on Oahu Island (Hawaii) has a bitter taste. Check your area for similar cucurbit plants. Mohsen On Mon, 29 Nov 1999, Tom Akin wrote: > Has anyone tasted honey with a bitter edge to it?