From MAILER-DAEMON Sun Feb 13 07:13:02 2000 Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA08344 for ; Sun, 13 Feb 2000 07:13:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02331 for ; Sun, 13 Feb 2000 07:12:59 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200002131212.HAA02331@listserv.albany.edu> Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 07:12:59 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8d)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG9912A" To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Content-Length: 132573 Lines: 2681 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 07:04:02 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Treatment for mites in Missouri (a tardy response) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" On Tuesday, November 23, Allen Dick wrote: ... > Then the question is whether Apistan is working, and how well. There are > a number of ways, and the simplest is likely to just get some Apistan(r) > and insert it for a day or two and track the mite drop numbers. Then > remove it and try an alternate method... CheckMite, is available and > effective and not closely related to Apistan, so it would be a logical > choice.... Continuing my crusade against this never gas derivative I feel compelled to share a recommendation from Cornell University, which is to do a post-Apistantreatment ether roll to see if mites are still present. Only if the ether roll is positive should resort to coumophos. Aaron Morris - thinking there's nasty stuff brewing! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 07:22:12 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Better for what purpose Bees? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" morharn@KYND.NET wrote: > I have the European contingent of a U.N. of bees here and they're all > different, useful, and nice. For instance, my Cordovans make no surplus > honey but make loads of bees, but they are so good at nursing brood, and so > sweet to handle for these manipulations, that I will keep a colony of > Cordovans just to raise queens from brood of other stock, and for a ready > supply of bees and brood.... "Cordovan" is a genetic trait associated across breeds, it is not a breed in and of itself. There are Cordovan Italians and Cordovan Carniolans and cordovan... The cordovan trait is a genetic lack of color pigment, somwhat akin to albino mice (white with pink eyes) or albino humans. It is a recessive trait, so it is hard to keep in open mated queens. As such, it can be a good indicator to determine if your cordovan queen has been superseded. The hive bees can change from a light golden color to a much darker color when the progeny of the new queen emerges. I keep a few cordovan hives in my bee yards as they make good show-n-tell stories for visitors. The foragers are also easily identified away from the hive. On can quickly tell that the bee on that dandelion came from my hive! Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 08:52:04 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Borst Subject: Re: Bitter Honey In-Reply-To: <199912010506.AAA22675@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Re: Bitter Honey Might be privet (Ligustrum). Pellet's "American Honey Plants" says: "Privet honey is ... distinctly bitter in taste ... the bitterness is liable to spoil good honey with which it may be mixed." PB ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 09:43:45 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Blane White Subject: Re: AFB Today Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Hi Allen, Just a couple of thoughts. First ETO treatment needs to be done correctly and monitored ( using biological indicators and sending in samples for confirmation) so you know if it actually worked of course. There is some risk but one beekeeper here burned all AFB colonies last fall - he only had a few and figured it was the best way to go - trying to nip the problem in the bud so to speak. The result? A major outbreak of AFB in his outfit this summer. In this case the source of infection was not robbing of honey jars but nucs purchased a couple of years ago. Yes it took this long for the infection to become apparent but it is in those used frames that came with the nucs. Again the main way AFB is spread is movement of combs. Yes robbing can spread it but nearly all spread is from infected combs that we beekeepers move to healthy hives. Now a few comments on honey bees resistant to AFB. Hygienic stock will certainly help but hygienic isn't the only factor in resistance to AFB as noted on this list before. In fact, to know for sure that a stock is resistant to AFB one must do an actual disease challenge. Some ( a few) hygienic will get low levels of AFB when challenge with infected comb but truly resistant lines will not even show a single cell of AFB. Not that may be a minor point as the hygienic susceptible colonies usually eventually contain and even clear up the infection but just because the bees are hygienic does not mean they will not get AFB ever. The other issue is not to expect too much from any resistant stock. By that I mean don't buy hygienic breeder queens, raise production queens from them which are open mated and expect all the colonies to be hygienic. The level of hygienic behavior will increase markedly but it will take 3 to 5 years of buying those hygienic breeders before your bees will have high levels of hygienic behavior and brood diseases will be nearly absent from your bees. At that time you will find colonies where the bees are removing pupa which are still white in color and had no identifiable disease but not disease you can clearly identify. Of course it is important that these bees also produce honey, winter well, and are generally a good productive bee to work with. Not the same reasoning applies to the varroa resistant stocks being released - it will take a number of years for the traits are at high enough levels to result in varroa resistance in the field of any importance. Don't try them the first year and give up on them because if the breeder continues to purchase resistant breeders in a few years the bees in his outfit will be more resistant to varroa mites but it will take at least a few years for this to happen. Now a little case study on AFB resistance or more accurately hygienic bees. There is a beekeeper here ( commercial beekeeper ) who has been getting hygienic breeder queens from Dr Spivak for at least 3 years. In those years the incidence of chalkbrood has decreased markedly in his bees to the point of being nearly completely gone. In fact brood disease is gone from his bees. One will find a few pupae in some hives which the bees are removing from their cells which are still white in color and one cannot tell why they are being removed. It could be brood disease ( any of the brood diseases ) or varroa mites but they are being removed before any disease is to the infectious stage so the colonies have very good brood patterns and nice large clusters. His honey production has been up the last two years and he is pleased with the bees. So it can help but it took a few years to get where he is today. I suspect that if he continues to get the hygienic breeders he may see continued improvement in the bees but from a disease standpoint he really can't get much better than he already is. Get any disease resistant stock you can and don't expect it to completely take care of the problem in one year. This applies to any resistance either to disease or mites. Hygienic is one easy way to screen for colonies with good brood disease resistance and therefore a good character to look for in breeders. As a plus it also seems to help slow the increase in varroa mites in the colonies. This has gotten rather longer but hope it is helpful. blane ****************************************** Blane White MN Dept of Agriculture blane.white@state.mn.us ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 10:16:56 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pollinator@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Bitter Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/1/99 7:05:54 AM Pacific Standard Time, plb6@CORNELL.EDU writes: << "Privet honey is ... distinctly bitter in taste ... the bitterness is liable to spoil good honey with which it may be mixed." >> We have a LOT of privet here, some gone wild and grown into trees. It blooms profusely in late spring and make a dark, rich honey. I've never detected any bitterness in it at all. Once in a while, a hive gets into something in the summer that is so bitter you are tempted to eat some sand, just to get the taste out of your mouth. I have not identified the plant, as a yard of bees may be unaffected except for one or two hives. The honey is usually ELA or white and comes in late July or early August. Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Home Page: http://www.pollinator.com The Pollination Scene: http://users.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop (Varietal Honeys and Beeswax Candles, Beeswax Creche, gifts, now credit card orders): http://users.aol.com/SweetnessL/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 07:14:08 PST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: T & M Weatherhead Subject: Re: AFB today In-Reply-To: <199912011631.LAA03846@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Blane White wrote > There is some risk but one > beekeeper here burned all AFB colonies last fall - he only had a few > and figured it was the best way to go - trying to nip the problem in > the bud so to speak. The result? A major outbreak of AFB in his > outfit this summer. In this case the source of infection was not > robbing of honey jars but nucs purchased a couple of years ago. Yes > it took this long for the infection to become apparent but it is in > those used frames that came with the nucs. Again the main way AFB is > spread is movement of combs. Yes robbing can spread it but nearly all > spread is from infected combs that we beekeepers move to healthy > hives. There has been research carried out in Australia to look at the effect of antibiotic treatment on AFB. Hives showing symptoms of AFB, and having been diagnosed in a laboratory as such, were treated with oxytetracycline hydrochloride (OTC). It was found that the clinical signs disappeared initially but that the AFB came back again in between 3 and 15 months. This was what had been expected. We have been told that OTC does not actually kill all the AFB but stops it from multiplying so that the bees can then get on top of the AFB. So, while OTC gave the hive some temporary relief, it did not cure the hive of AFB. This is one of the main reasons why Australia does not support the use of OTC to control AFB. This experiment showed that OTC does not stop a hive from breaking down with AFB at a later date. If you use these chemicals, then you are spreading around infected material between hives and is exactly as described by Blane. The use of hygenic bees is one aspect being looked at here in Australia but as Blane and others have described, the problem is that the hygenic behaviour is associated with recessive genes. Whilst we can bred quens from stock that is hygenic, and we do have them in Australia, the mating is unontrollable and unless you get mating with some drones that carry the hygenic behaviour, then the progeny will not exhibit the hygenic behaviour. However it is not a lost cause, just a big challenge which we are facing up to. In Australia one method that we are encouraging is the use of barrier systems to limit any damage that may be caused by AFB and also allow for immediate trace back to identify any hive material that may be infected. The infected material is either burnt or irradiated. We are making much use of irradiation as this allows for the material to be used straight away after irradiation. There are many types of barrier systems and each beekeeper is encouraged to look at the systems in use and then adopt a system that will gel with their own operation. This is a non chemical system and, used in conjunction with testing honey for the presence of AFB spores, is an effective method of AFB control. Trevor Weatherhead AUSTRALIA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 14:03:14 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Scott Mitchell Subject: Propolis Comments: To: Beekeeping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, I realize this is abit late to the discussion of Propolis but IM just in from my hives in Va. After the discussion of propolis and the amount that was being produced (of the like, we very seldom see in Texas) I wanted to comment on my hives in Va. Early in the fall I saw curtains of Propolis being drawn to cover the entrance. Now I opened my hives to feed them and to do some last minute management I have found curtains or barriers built between the frames and combs in what appeared to be the future cluster. Each hive has various amounts of propolis but each had at least 2 frames with these barriers. Sorry if this is old to some but the thread on propolis was a good one and one that interested me. Any others have this same observation? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 14:23:41 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Graham Law Subject: Translucent Hives Hi Bill, I have noticed that observations hives are always easy to manage as when opened the bees stay on the comb even when the same bees were not so inclined before occupying the observation hive. I figured that the bees were now used to light and light was one trigger factor with bitchy bees when opening a normal colony. I have just built a translucent roof to try next spring to see if it could be a useful tool whilst dealing with awkward bees. (Ok I know breeding quite bees is an ideal but meanwhile is the real world...). One concern is direct sunlight hence translucent and not transparent. If I have any conclusive results I will let you know. cheers Graham ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 11:59:13 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: AFB Today In-Reply-To: <199912011642.LAA04360@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks Blane, your comments are very interesting. > ...one > beekeeper here burned all AFB colonies last fall - he only had a few > and figured it was the best way to go - trying to nip the problem in > the bud so to speak. The result? A major outbreak of AFB in his > outfit this summer. I take it he did not use prophylactic antibiotics after the ETO? AFB is everywhere, even if it is not in other equipment in one's own outfit. I originally started out years ago with all new equipment, but soon learned that one cannot be free of disease if it is in the neighbourhood. The lesson there was that either I had to clean up everyone else as well as myself, or get with a drug regimen. A question on the antibiotic resistant AFB you have encountered: is it entirely unaffected by the application of drugs, or does it require a higher dose to achieve control? > Get any disease resistant stock you can and don't expect it to > completely take care of the problem in one year. This applies to any > resistance either to disease or mites. Hygienic is one easy way to > screen for colonies with good brood disease resistance and therefore a > good character to look for in breeders. As a plus it also seems to > help slow the increase in varroa mites in the colonies. The universal use of hygienic bees should reduce the reservoirs of diseases and benefit us all. If we can get bees that can handle the diseases and still produce, we can get off the drug treadmill. BTW, for those who are interested, another large email in the 'Saga' series came through today and is at the onelist site. It makes interesting reading and is not without merit. allen ----- See if your questions have been answered in over a decade of discussions. BEE-L archives & more: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Bee-l.htm Search sci.agriculture.beekeeping at http://www.deja.com/ or access both from http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 07:56:00 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: SAFB is a New and Distinct Contagious Disease MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've been thinking about the new oxytetracycline resistant ABF that has suddenly been appearing in numerous places and which seems to be spreading, and realise that beekeepers don't realise that it is a =whole new disease= (more on that below). As such it deserves and new name, and in honor of where it first appeared, I'll call it South American Foul Brood or SAFB for short. Only a few years ago, a noted American researcher reportedly investigated contemporary AFB compared to AFB that had been in storage for many years and concluded that there had been little, if any, change in response to oxytetracycline over the years: oxytet worked as well as ever. Then we heard that AFB in Argentina was exhibiting resistance to traditional drugs. Now we have found resistance in the USA and Canada. I am sure it will appear worldwide shortly -- at least wherever Argentinean honey is imported and sold. That is not to say that all resistance necessarily originates in the Argentine, but we do know that AFB can be very contagious in the absence of resistant bees or drugs that are effective, and we do know that honey carries AFB spores very nicely. We also know that honey is 1. discarded in open sites, 2. honey drums are re-used, sometimes without washing for feeding bees, 3. hobbyists (and occasionally commercial beekeepers) sometimes purchase honey to feed their bees. You don't have to be a rocket surgeon to figure out the rest... The mechanisms of micro organisms developing resistance are quite interesting. In the process of putting off writing this article last night, I sat down and watched TV and, serendipitously, discovered a program that detailed the search for new antibiotics, and which filled in the background of some of the vague ideas that were nagging me while I was snowboarding at Lake Louise last weekend. The long and the short of it is that antibiotics are generally derived from the compounds that micro organisms have developed to hold off competitors. As we know, penicillin was discovered because someone noticed germs would not grow near a specific mold colony in a petrie dish in a bacterial culture experiment gone awry. I am certainly no expert, and I am sure we have a few on the list who may be able to help out here, but my understanding is that antibiotics can be classified into families and have specific mechanisms that they use to disable or limit growth in certain classes of micro organisms. I have heard, for example that oxytetracycline and sulfathiazole have similar mechanisms for AFB control, and that if the bacterium is resistant to one, it is resistant to the other. However, there are known drugs with different mechanisms that can attack oxytetracycline resistant AFB causing bacteria. What I learned watching TV last night was that micro organisms swap DNA on a regular basis when they come into contact with one another and that resistance in one bacterium can and will transfer into others that come into contact. This may explain why suddenly we are seeing resistance appear all over the place in types of bacteria that have previously been isolated and very limited in their habitat such as those causing AFB; perhaps they are meeting more ubiquitous types of bacteria that are resistant and the resistance is transferring. Apparently many types of bacteria associated with livestock operations are now resistant to many antibiotics and it is not hard to see how AFB organisms (notice how I avoid naming them) could have come into close contact. Anyhow, maybe -- and just maybe, separate mutations of oxytetracycline resistant bacteria are appearing in different locations spontaneously due to exposure to other resistant varieties, but until that is proven, I would place my money on there being only one -- or at most very few -- original mutations and that all other cases are spread from them. That brings me (at last) to my point: SAFB is a new contagious disease. It is distinct and separate from the AFB that is already in the environment and your equipment and mine. It MUST come from *elsewhere* if we are to experience a breakdown. There is a negligible chance that it will arise spontaneously and locally. The problem is that it looks exactly the same. The only way you know that it is different from the variety we have all come to know and love, is that it does not go or stay away when you use oxytet in normal amounts. This is the problem, and the reason it will spread like wildfire. You won't know you have a fatal problem until it has had a chance to spread -- if you have been counting on drugs to control AFB, as we all do in North America -- unless you burn or melt all outbreaks immediately, and unless you actually inspect all frames regularly. This is a daunting task for huge commercial operations. Since SAFB will have to come from outside if it is to appear at all. The likely sources are a neighbour who has bought diseased equipment, a migratory outfit, or someone putting contaminated Argentine honey where bees can get it. The upshot of this fact, once beekeepers catch on, will be that beekeepers will suddenly become much more interested in what their neighbours are doing and in governmental controls on everything from movement of bees to sale of honey that contains spores. Some isolated countries already are operating this way, and this new variety of AFB -- if it gets there -- will have relatively little impact, but for those of us in free trading and free movement areas, there will be a huge change. This is unless we get new, effective drugs for alternate treatment into place NOW. As I have said before, I think that if Steve Tabor is right and that breeds of hygienic bees can control AFB, this may be the ultimate solution to SAFB and a significant defence against other problems. But, in the meantime, we must be certain that we are prepared with new drug(s) and observant or else much of the equipment and bees in North America will make a huge bonfire. allen ----- See if your questions have been answered in over a decade of discussions. BEE-L archives & more: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Bee-l.htm Search sci.agriculture.beekeeping at http://www.deja.com/ or visit http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee to access both on the same page. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 20:43:56 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Cosman and Whidden Honey Company Subject: Re: Bitter honey In-Reply-To: <199911291856.NAA01644@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" In some areas of Nova Scotia in late July and early August, knapweed produces an abundant crop of light colored honey with a green tinge and a pronounced bitter aftertaste. Tom Cosman ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 17:34:31 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Anne Becker Subject: Bee's natural immunity? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I realize I am coming from a fairly naive position, but I have heard of the highly antibacterial properties of several types of honey, not to mention propolis itself--are the bee's weapons just not strong enough to fight off these diseases and pests? If not, is the natural order of things dictating that bees are doomed? How is it that there is a strain of bacteria so potent that no antibiotics can kill it? (or the only ones that seemed to be working were sterilizing the queens--is this true?) Any or all of these questions, I guess, are fueled by my knowledge of antibiotic over/mis-use in humans and farm animals, and prompted by the last posting about DNA swapping between micro-organisms. thanks-- anne ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 08:57:32 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Irish Beekeeping List Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello All I do not know if this message is acceptable to the Moderators but here goes any way!. I have just set up an Irish Beekeeping List. I show below the procedures for joining it if you may be interested. SUBSCRIBING TO THE LIST. If you decide to join the new list do the following: Send an e mail to IrishBeekeeping-subscribe@listbot.com Do not put anything in the Subject or in the body of the message. You will obtain an acknowledgment and you will be asked to reply to it. You are now a subscriber. Membership of the list is completely free of charge. SENDING A MESSAGE TO EVERYBODY ON THE LIST. To send a message to everybody on the list, send an e mail to IrishBeekeeping@listbot.com UNSUBSCRIBING FROM THE LIST. At any time, if you decide to unsubscribe from the list (maybe when going on holidays etc), do the following: Send an e mail to IrishBeekeeping-unsubscribe@listbot.com To see the archives (nothing much there at present!), visit http://www.listbot.com Click on Member Login, Click on View List Archives and Click on Irish Beekeeping discussion list. Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park, Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland Tel + 353 1 289 5269 Fax + 353 1 289 9940 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 09:32:35 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Lipscomb, Al" Subject: Re: Bee's natural immunity? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > I realize I am coming from a fairly naive position, but I have heard of the >highly antibacterial properties of several types of honey, not to mention >propolis itself--are the bee's weapons just not strong enough to fight off >these diseases and pests? If not, is the natural order of things dictating >that bees are doomed? I would use caution in the "highly" modifier to "antibacterial". There is some good indications that some forms of honey work against some forms of bacteria. But there are different types of bacteria, and different types of antibiotics that work against them. American Foul Brood is of type of bacteria that form spores to reproduce. Spore forming bacteria are very hard to kill when compared to the bacteria that do not form spores. Examples of spore forming bacteria that also cause humans great problems would be botulism and anthrax. Antibiotics that are used against spore forming bacteria attack the "adult" form of the germ. The spores that do not become active during the antibiotic treatment are not harmed. With AFB that means that spores in the wax are available to attack the next generation of brood as soon as the treatment is ended. Prolonged use of any antibiotic will result in selection pressures that can promote resistant strains. I always wonder at what is to be understood as "the natural order". If the human race is to be thought of as part of nature then as long as we are working to keep the bees going then they should not thought of as doomed by nature. What you have to understand is that the problem of antibiotic resistant bacteria is a problem for humans as well. There are now staff and strep germs that only respond to a handful of the known antibiotics. This is not against nature, but an example of the process of nature in selection. As was mentioned in another post on AFB most antibiotics are based on compounds found in nature. For that matter many toxic substances are based on things found in nature. One species develops a defense, another changes its method of attack. It has always been a war, we are just among the larger players in the battle. >How is it that there is a strain of bacteria so potent >that no antibiotics can kill it? (or the only ones that seemed to be working >were sterilizing the queens--is this true?) Any or all of these questions, I >guess, are fueled by my knowledge of antibiotic over/mis-use in humans and >farm animals, and prompted by the last posting about DNA swapping between >micro-organisms. thanks-- Most misuse of antibiotics have their roots in consumer desires. When we have a cold, which is caused by a virus we want the good doctor to do something. Since a little relief can be found in attacking the bacteria that are taking advantage of the viral foothold, we are given antibiotics. How would the patient of today react to the old "take two aspirin and call me in the mourning". In the food industry we want the big chickens and fat beef but we want it cheap. So the farmer is put under pressure to use antibiotics. In the end we all have a little bit of blame in the problems. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 10:52:30 -0500 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Organization: ACB Dept., Univ of Michigan Subject: Re: SAFB is a New and Distinct Contagious Disease MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Allen probably has a good point, in the SAFB is a distinctly new and different disease. It probably did arise, however, from ordinary AFB which by genetic mutation picked up resistance to OTC. This is nothing new, as has been said already. I'm wondering how widespread SAFB is in Argentina, and for that matter other South American countries. Also, what is the effect on beekeeping operations there. I wonder if we still have Argentinean members on this list who could comment on what is really going on in that part of the world. Is it really as devastating as the hype we're hearing may lead us to believe, or are the traditional AFB controls (burning, etc.) effectively containing it? Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 07:38:17 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Propolis Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Scott Mitchell wrote (in part): ) I >wanted to comment on my hives in Va. Early in the fall I saw curtains of >Propolis being drawn to cover the entrance. In our studies of feral bee colonies on Santa Cruz Island, we frequently had the same observation --- not just a curtain, but a wall of propolis (with vertical ribs on the inside surface) --- so that the entrance was nearly sealed. Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 963-8508 (home phone) 967 Garcia Road (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 **************************************************************************** ******* * * "The history of physics is the history of giving up cherished ideas." * * Andrew Strominger, Harvard physicist (1999) * **************************************************************************** ******* ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 10:44:39 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Blane White Subject: Re: SAFB is a New and Distinct Contagious Disease Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Hi Everyone, I have to comment on this. ****************************************** Blane White MN Dept of Agriculture blane.white@state.mn.us >>> Allen Dick 12/01/99 08:56AM >>> >I've been thinking about the new oxytetracycline resistant ABF that has suddenly >been appearing in numerous places and which seems to be spreading, and realise >that beekeepers don't realise that it is a =whole new disease= (more on that >below). As such it deserves and new name, and in honor of where it first >appeared, I'll call it South American Foul Brood or SAFB for short. I suggest we call it bad AFB in honor and memory of Andy N. and his Bad and Sad bees. >Only a few years ago, a noted American researcher reportedly investigated >contemporary AFB compared to AFB that had been in storage for many years and >concluded that there had been little, if any, change in response to >oxytetracycline over the years: oxytet worked as well as ever. Then we heard >that AFB in Argentina was exhibiting resistance to traditional drugs. Now we >have found resistance in the USA and Canada. I am sure it will appear worldwide >shortly -- at least wherever Argentinean honey is imported and sold. Hold on Allen. There were reports of OTC resistance in Argentina at least as far back as 1989 well before that study was published. In fact OTC resistance was found in the US for the first time within a year of the publication of that article when an inspector found some AFB that was responding to treatment and sent in a sample for testing. We would have found it earlier if we had thought to send in the right samples and asked for the testing. Good thing that inspector though of it or we would not have understood what was going on at the time. >That is not to say that all resistance necessarily originates in the Argentine, >but we do know that AFB can be very contagious in the absence of resistant bees >or drugs that are effective, and we do know that honey carries AFB spores very >nicely. We also know that honey is 1. discarded in open sites, 2. honey drums >are re-used, sometimes without washing for feeding bees, 3. hobbyists (and >occasionally commercial beekeepers) sometimes purchase honey to feed their bees. >You don't have to be a rocket surgeon to figure out the rest... >What I learned watching TV last night was that micro organisms swap DNA on a >regular basis when they come into contact with one another and that resistance >in one bacterium can and will transfer into others that come into contact. This >may explain why suddenly we are seeing resistance appear all over the place in >types of bacteria that have previously been isolated and very limited in their >habitat such as those causing AFB; perhaps they are meeting more ubiquitous >types of bacteria that are resistant and the resistance is transferring. >Apparently many types of bacteria associated with livestock operations are now >resistant to many antibiotics and it is not hard to see how AFB organisms >(notice how I avoid naming them) could have come into close contact. Again hold on there! First horizontal gene transfer ( the process referred to above ) appears to not be that frequent of an event and requires close contact between the organisms involved. Second the rise of antibiotic resistance does not require such transfer nor mutation. Simply using an antibiotic will select for those organisms in the target population which have such resistance. Each and every use of the antibiotic will select for resistance that is already in the population. In fact here resistance appeared first in those beekeeper's outfits who were most diligent in their treatment program i.e. they subjected the population of AFB in their hives to the strongest selection for resistance. Another observation is that resistance appeared a few years after the widespread use of TM extender patties which hold the antibiotic in the hive for extended periods of time in an active form hence vastly increasing the selection for resistance. In short, we probably have imported some but we almost certainly also selected some of our own. Now reread that stuff above on selection and use pesticide instead of antibiotic and you have a pretty good description of how varroa resistance to apistan or other treatments develops. The development of resistance in both cases involves very similar mechanisms. And I agree one of the keys to getting off the chemical treadmill we have created here in North America is the widespread use of resistant stocks of honey bees. Good discussion and very relevant. blane ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 18:16:31 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jean-Marie Van Dyck Subject: Re: Propolis In-Reply-To: <199912021633.LAA07597@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Scott Mitchell wrote (in part): > > I >>wanted to comment on my hives in Va. Early in the fall I saw curtains of >>Propolis being drawn to cover the entrance. > Adrian M. Wenner reply: > In our studies of feral bee colonies on Santa Cruz Island, we frequently >had the same observation --- not just a curtain, but a wall of propolis >(with vertical ribs on the inside surface) --- so that the entrance was >nearly sealed. It seems that this observation has been made a very long time ago, since the very name of this matter results from this special feature : the name propolis comes from the Greek "pro" (ahead) and "polis" (the city) : matter that bees put ahead the city. Jean-Marie Van Dyck Namur (Belgium) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 12:03:00 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: William Morong Subject: Antibacterial properties of honey Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Anne wrote "I have heard of the highly antibacterial properties of several types of honey, not to mention propolis itself-". According to many bee books, (ABC-XYZ, etc.) honey of all types, if its moisture content is appropriately low, is antibacterial. It is not that honey is magically toxic to bacteria, but merely that being dry and hydrophilic it causes high osmotic pressure across the bacteria's cell walls that dries out and withers the pathogens, if they be in their active form. This property of honey itself is part of why it keeps, and why it is sometimes used to kill pathogens in wounds. Unfortunately, when some pathogens are thus challenged, they form very durable spores which remain viable in honey for a long time. Botulism is from such a spore-forming pathogen, and foulbrood is from another. Thus it seems unlikely that any type of honey is part of bees' chemical defense against disease, but rather that inherent behavior involving disposal of diseased brood material is the means by which "hygienic" bees defend themselves. Bill Morong ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 10:14:31 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Blane White Subject: Re: AFB Today Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Hi Allen and everyone, I need to clearify a couple of points below. > ...one > beekeeper here burned all AFB colonies last fall - he only had a few > and figured it was the best way to go - trying to nip the problem in > the bud so to speak. The result? A major outbreak of AFB in his > outfit this summer. >I take it he did not use prophylactic antibiotics after the ETO? He burned all infected colonies. He did not treat with ETO( Ethyleen Oxide ). He also continued his good TM program. Still the major outbreak. Why? The AFB in his outfit is not responding to the antibiotic treatment it is as if he quit using it. >A question on the antibiotic resistant AFB you have encountered: is it entirely >unaffected by the application of drugs, or does it require a higher dose to >achieve control? As above sometimes it appears to not respond at all but sometimes we see reduced effectiveness in that you can keep a colony strong with continued treatment but there is still some active AFB and highly infectious scale is being created infecting more frames in the colony.... >The universal use of hygienic bees should reduce the reservoirs of diseases and >benefit us all. If we can get bees that can handle the diseases and still >produce, we can get off the drug treadmill. Dr Spivak's stock is also good for honey production here in MN. She was very careful to also select for honey production, wintering, and workability so it is an overall good stock but again it will take a few years to see the major results. Now the first year you will see some improvement but the real improvement comes in later years as the drones in your outfit also carry the traits so the frequency of the hygienic traits increases in your workers. ****************************************** Blane White MN Dept of Agriculture blane.white@state.mn.us ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 19:02:46 +0000 Reply-To: the.dr@tesco.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tim Subject: cordovan? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone know of a "cordovan keeper" in the U.K i would like to try some next spring ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 06:37:05 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: Treatment for mites in Missouri Comments: To: Rod Rupert In-Reply-To: <000401bf39d5$074d31a0$890a10ac@rrr1775p.aeci.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Rod Rupert [mailto:rrupert@mail.orion.org] > Thanks for your comments on my mite situation here in Missouri. I wanted to > provide some additional information, but not being sure if this was of > general interest, decided to send it to you directly instead of the list. With Rod's permission, I have CC'd this reply to the list, along with my comments and those of another commentator who adds an interesting insight. I think this problem and its resolution is of general interest and answers questions in the readers' minds inspired by the earlier posts. Moreover this discussion blows a warning whistle and brings in an interesting mention of formic acid... > The hive in question is the center hive of a 3 hive apiary I have in my back > yard. This hive (# 2 in my recordkeeping scheme) was a runt all spring > chiefly because it swarmed twice. One of those swarms was completely my > fault, which is a whole other story, and I am not sure what I could or > should have done to prevent the second. The second swarm issued on May 30 > and I was unable to recover it. I inspected the hive on June 12 and found > no young brood but did find the queen with what appeared to be an egg > sticking out of her abdomen. I ordered a new queen and split the hive with > a double screen and installed the new queen on June 17. The queen I thought > had a problem turned out to be okay because during my inspection on June 27 > I found brood in all stages both above and below the double screen. I > killed the old queen anyway and reunited the hive bodies using the newspaper > method. I never installed any honey supers on this hive. > > My next inspection was on July 17. The upper body contained much capped > brood and the lower body the queen, eggs, and larva. However, for the first > time in my 2 years of beekeeping, I saw mites on bees and a number of bees > with deformed wings. This looked bad to me, so I installed 2 strips in each > hive body in the areas where there was brood. > > The following day I pulled the honey supers from the other two hives. In > hive #1 I saw mites on drone brood that I pulled apart from the queen > excluder. I didn't see any in hive #3 but did not check thoroughly. After > extracting I put the empty supers back on hives #1 & 3 for the bees to > clean. > > On August 7 I removed the supers from hives #1 & 3 and inspected the brood > chambers. Because of the obvious problems with mites in hive 2, and the > fact I had seen mites in the drone brood in hive #1, I reasoned I should go > ahead and treat these hives. In preparation I had purchased a mite check > tray and a Beltsville screen insert from Brushy Mountain. I installed the > tray in hive #1 and the screen insert in hive #3, and two Apistan strips in > the brood area of each hive. After 4 hours I pulled the tray from hive #1 > and the sticky board from beneath the screen insert from hive #3 and found > what I would estimate to be 200 mites or more on each. Because of this I > reasoned treating at that time was the correct thing to do. Several weeks > into the treatment on hive #2 I installed a screen insert and sticky board > which I would check occasionally. As I noted, it was not possible to get an > accurate mite count because the ants were carrying them off. I decided to > leave the screen insert on this hive all winter but close up the back during > cold weather. > > August 29 - Removed Apistan strips from hive #2. > October 2 - Removed Apistan strips from hives #1 & 3 and removed screen > insert from hive #3. > November 11 - Did the sticky board check as described in my earlier message. > > Recent Actions: > > On November 21 the bees in hive #2 had completed the second gallon of 2:1 > syrup with Fumidil, so I did a quick inspection of the upper hive body. Saw > no deformed bees and noted capped brood about to hatch on the center frames. > Population seemed more than adequate for the winter. Two days ago with > temps in the 50's and some bees flying, I installed a sticky board under the > screen insert on hive #2. Yesterday the weather was in the upper 60's with > bees flying and bringing in yellow pollen. Noted orientation flights from > hive #2. This morning, November 28, I removed the sticky board. It had > been in about 46 hours. I counted about 60 mites, all but a few appear > dead. > > The question remains: What is the significance of this level of mite fall at > this time of the year in this climate? I am concerned that I may have > treated too early. Last year I installed strips around Oct. 1 and removed > them at Thanksgiving, but I never tried to measure mite levels last year > either. Given the indications I had this year in July and August, treating > then sure seemed like the correct thing to do. > > My first inspection of the year is usually in February. Perhaps I will have > the answer then. > > Thanks for your comments. > > Rod > > BTW, I had a request from the U. of Northern Iowa to send them my sticky > board with mites. They wanted them for some DNA research they are doing on > the viruses that the mites carry in an effort to develop a biological > control. They received them last week. This gives us a detailed description of what happened and also clarifies some of the questions raised from previous posts. Obviously Rod is careful and observant, so I doubt that his application was at fault, unless the product was defective for some reason. I can see nothing to indicate that the summer treatments should not have worked and the writer seems to have followed all the instructions very carefully and used good judgement as to timing. The only flaw -- and it was justified and very minor -- was the slight offset in timing of the treatments of adjacent hives. Frankly, I think that it could not begin to account for the current level of infestation. Going back to our previous discussions, that leaves re-infestation from outside or Apistan (r) resistant mites. Blane White wrote me about that when I sent him Rod's note, and I quote in full with his permission: > From: Blane White [mailto:Blane.White@state.mn.us] > I will offer one little piece of the picture that I left out of my > original post. This season there has been a very large increase in > fluvalinate ( Apistan ) resistant varroa in the US. I know here in MN > that very very few commercial beekeepers are still getting varroa > control at all with Apistan. In many cases many colonies have died > after treatment with Apistan this fall before the beekeeper got back > to them and realized that the Apistan did not work. This fluvalinate > resistance has also been showing up in colonies belonging to small > beekeepers and they are reporting high varroa populations after > Apistan treatment or colony death with symptoms of varroa. In short > given the situation here in the US by far the most likely conclusion > is that the varroa in those hives are resistant to varroa and get an > alternate treatment in there as quickly as possible to save them. > They could be past saving but one will never know unless one tries. > > On another related topic: > Some colonies seem to tolerate much higher varroa populations than > others and remain healthy and productive. There are likely many > factors involved but some stocks appear to be much more resistant to > the viruses that varroa vector and that contributes to this toughness. > I have successfully wintered colonies here in St Paul outdoors with > fairly high varroa loads - note I can afford to not treat with Apistan > and have been using drone brood removal to try to keep colonies alive. > I have had colonies die from varroa but have also had some survive > pretty high mite loads it has been interesting trying to learn how a > small beekeeper can live with varroa without using the so called hard > chemical treatments. Now I am not apposed to chemical treatment per > se but am somewhat concerned about residue of treatments in wax so I > will use formic acid next spring as it is now legally available here > now. I don't have numbers of mites in hives etc just observations > with my few colonies and know I can keep them alive and productive but > actually focus much of my management on managing varroa instead of the > bees so it is not reasonable on a larger scale but we have to start > learning somewhere. I am looking for an IPM approach to the varroa > problem. > FWIW > blane > Blane White > MN Dept of Agriculture > blane.white@state.mn.us ----- See if your questions have been answered in over a decade of discussions. BEE-L archives & more: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Bee-l.htm Search sci.agriculture.beekeeping at http://www.deja.com/ or visit http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee to access both on the same page. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 14:52:06 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Translucent Hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" This message was originally submitted by ilogmria@CAV.PWORLD.NET.PH to the BEE-L list at LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU. It was edited to remove previously posted material. ----------------- Original message (ID=F71109CF) (55 lines) From: "Joel F. Magsaysay" Hi Bill and Graham, I am also running transluscent beehives made of one layer of fiberglass and other opaque beehives made of 2 and 3 layers of fiberglass as controls. The honey season is starting here. We are about 1,500 feet above sea level. Temperatures range from 15 to 22C. It will be interesting to note that my fiberglass hives are triples whilst my wooden hives are only in doubles. Of course, I've got only a few fiberglass hives, and much more wooden beehives. I am trying to improve rigidity for migratory honey production by in-laying aluminum angular bars in my next prototype. Also, I have devised venting systems to make up for lost wicking action of wood. Joel F. Magsaysay ILOG MARIA HONEYBEE FARMS Cavite Highlands, Philippines ilogmria@cav.pworld.net.ph (063) 46-865-0018 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 14:44:11 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Bitter Honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" This message was originally submitted by bobbarnett@ATT.NET to the BEE-L list at LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU. It was edited to remove quotes of previously posted material. ----------------- Original message (ID=7178BE4B) (75 lines) Hello All: Dave Green has described exactly honey from the "Bitter Weed", Hellenium tenuifolium; see Pellett's American Honey Plants (Dadant), fifth Edition, Page 56 forward, described perfectly and accurately. It is very common in the south especially on rural roadsides and waste land. It does bloom very late July and in August here in Alabama when there is otherwise relative of nector. It ranges from Missouri across Tenn. into North Carolina, and South. My observation is that bees don't work it actively, and though several people have reported collection of a superful of honey in this time frame (30 pounds), it is inedible. Pellett cites a report that states bitterweed can be fatal to horses and mules in the Gulf States, which I have not heard of, but milk cows will eat it readily, and you can take my word for it, one can hardly drink the milk or eat the butter. I have had one colony positioned to work this plant, but one saw few bees on the plant or bloom. The whole plant, narrow leaves, stem, foliage, bud, bloom and pollen are all bitter as bitter can be. If you don't believe that, find some and taste it! ( as Dave Green said, you can't get this out of your mouthin an hour). Hellenium amarum, also known as 'Bitterweed', is described in the Manual of the Vascular Flora of the Carolinas by Radford A. Bell, and occurs very widely in both N. and S. Carolina. I do not know whether it is worked by bees or produces honey, facts not mentioned in this reference. Hope this helps. Bob Barnett Birmingham, AL ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 14:50:19 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Translucent Hives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" This message was originally submitted by jjbmail@SELWAY.UMT.EDU to the BEE-L list at LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU. It was edited to remove previously posted material. ----------------- Original message (ID=1133E0EF) (51 lines) From: Jerry J Bromenshenk At 02:23 PM 12/1/99 -0500, you wrote: Just a guess, but I'd say you may have some real problems: 1) Our observation hive is fine in subdued light, but starts building propolis on the outer surfaces when the light brighter 2) We kept continuous logging temperature probes in some polyethylene disposable hives - bees had a real hard time controlling temperatures, probably because of a greenhouse effect. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 19:08:19 -0600 Reply-To: lkrengel@mc.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Larry Krengel Subject: mead MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We are in search of a source for someone to make a presentation on mead at the Midwest Beekeeping Symposium. So far we have struck out. Does anybody have any contacts that might be willing and interesting? Larry Krengel Marengo, IL USA ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 23:15:27 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Robert J. Bassett" Subject: Re: SAFB is a New and Distinct Contagious Disease Comments: To: tvf@umich.edu Comments: cc: benwagg@concentric.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/02/1999 11:56:06 AM Eastern Standard Time, tvf@UMICH.EDU writes: << Allen probably has a good point, in the SAFB is a distinctly new and different disease. It probably did arise, however, from ordinary AFB which by genetic mutation picked up resistance to OTC. >> This strain of Foul Brood reminds me of a situation I had a number of years ago when I was raising show chickens. Don't laugh, I will bring this full circle. I was so interested in genetics that I would read everything I could get my hands on involving the subject. Chickens have diseases too. Some of the diseases are just as devastating to the commercial poultry producers as AFB is to our bees. The big universities and commercial guys spent lots of time and money developing chickens to produce either meat or eggs. Those were the goals, their productivity. Vaccines and medications followed to keep the prodctive birds going and all was well until some evil microbe or virus popped up and started wiping out the super productive chickens. The 'super' chickens just didn't have much resistance because it was not a priority in their development. The hobbiest kept his chickens in the back yard and didn't have the resources to vaccinate and medicate like the big boys. He would raise his birds from stock that had no "commercial" value, but they did have disease resistance. They were not bred for resistance, they just ended up that way because the hobbiest raised his birds from the survivors of the various poultry plagues. Later on, the hobbiests got into medicating and that is another story. I knew this because I had read about it and I was determined to have resistant stock. The first year I had my flock of Dutch Bantams (little show chickens) I lost about half of the flock when some kind of plague came through. I didn't medicate. The next year I lost about 25% to the same thing. I didn't medicate. The next year was a repeat but I only lost about 10% and in the years to follow, I only lost a bird here and there. I never experienced a "plague" again. My friends in the hobby were always medicating and always had a few birds that would get sick. They would save them with medications and breed more birds from them, which would also "need" medicating. Here's the point. We know that bees cand have a resistance to the various diseases or we would have lost them all a long time ago. I do advocate the use of medications when the situation warrants it but we are now seeming to enter into a era where the decision to medicate or not will not be ours any more. Breeding for resistance would seem to be a priority for all of us at this time. Breeding for genetic traits is not a new thing. It has been done for centuries. Some of our domestic animals don't even look like the wild type they came from anymore because weve been dinking around with the gene pool for centuries. We can develop stock that will be resistant to all of the maladies, in my opinion. We just need to be observant and develop our stock to stand against the maladies affecting us at this time. There may not be (or probably isn't) a single gene responsible for various types of disease resistance. It may be a combination of genes that form the "trait" we need. I am confident we can do it or it may just be done for us if we wait long enough. Bob Bassett ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 06:50:40 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Bitter honey MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > In some areas of Nova Scotia in late July and early August, knapweed > produces an abundant crop of light colored honey with a green tinge and a > pronounced bitter aftertaste. The green tinge sounds more like purple loosestrife. Some have described p.l. as a bitter honey (personally I don't agree, but to each their own). However the green tinge is classic p.l. Knapweed produces later in the season in upstate NY, around the beginning of September (I don't think the season in Nova Scotia is a full month behind upstate NY) and knapweed honey is more medium-dark with no greenish hue. Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 08:35:40 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Borst Subject: Re: Treatment for mites Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Treatment for mites: One concept that I would like to add to the discussion on treating for mites is that one cannot deal mainly with individual colonies but must deal with the apiary. If the apiary has mites, you must treat the whole apiary. If one hive has excessive mites in summer and you treat it then, it is out of sync with the others, like you described. So it is liable to get reinfested when you are treating the others in fall. You must always consider drifting. Drifting is far mar common than most people suppose. So, I would suggest keeping strictly to the regimen of treating in the fall after the supers come off. Get them off early and any extra honey gathered will go into the hive for winter. Treat the whole apiary. If some hives die before treatment, that must be expected. An alternative would be to take non-producing hives to a "hospital yard" where again, all hives are being treated. Also, one should always raise nucs in the summer. If you have new colonies coming along, you will not despair of losing a hive now and again. Beekeeping is about percentages. You try to have a high percent of your hives working, cull out the failures, and keep making increase. Many beekeepers lose 50 percent of their numbers annually and plan for this by doubling their spring count, etc. Finally, the truth is we cannot even afford to deal mainly with apiaries but we must deal with beekeeping as a whole. It would be far better for everyone if everyone was treating the same way at the same time. When bee inspection was common, there was an legal method of dealing with disease and all beekeepers were expected to follow it, in order to control disease throughout the country. Now it's every man for himself (an old expression not intended to be sexist), and almost nobody agrees nor follows the instructions on the label. I am constantly baffled by beekeepers who state simply that they will not use coumaphos. If fluvalinate fails to work after a while and you don't use something else, the bees die! Fortunately we have a much better alternative in formic acid, which should be readily available soon. But I would suggest we use every *legal* method to keep the bees alive. It used to be against the law to keep diseased (AFB) hives. I am not saying we need the laws back, but we do need uniform recommendations that are followed throughout the entire beekeeping population. Treat in producing colonies in spring and in fall (or late summer in some areas), and if you have nucs, you can treat these in summer for 6 weeks and again in fall. If you have mites after treatment, you may need coumaphos or formic the next time. Furthermore, if a hive is crashing in late summer, nothing will help it as much as the addition of four or five frames of healthy brood and bees and a new queen added at that time. Peter Borst plb6@cornell.edu http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/plb6/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 04:49:13 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Al Subject: Re: Killing spores in wax and honey In-Reply-To: <199911281003.FAA01840@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > My interpretation of the material is that honey has been unfairly > singled out, but it has now passed into urban myth territory from > where we cannot retrieve it. However we do have to be on our > guard as evidenced by a recent press release from Ministry of > Health in New Zealand. This was pointing out that honey should > not be fed to infants in NZ - when : > > 1. NZ has the highest per capita honey consumption in the World > 2. There has never been a recorded instance of Infant Botulism. > In the United Stated beekeepers have a greater problem to overcome: lawyers. Once such a myth finds acceptance in a court of law the "facts" of law become stronger than the "facts" of science. I see the "do not feed honey to children under 1 years old" as standard on honey labels in the stores. Of course this is the same reason that anything that comes in a five gallon pail has a warning label on the pail as to the dangers of five gallon pails to children. My standard answer now to those who inquire about feeding honey to their children is to consult with their health care provider. It is not what I like, but we do have more lawyers than beekeepers. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 11:31:16 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Knapweed and knotweed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aaron said "Knapweed produces later in the season in upstate NY, around the beginning of September (I don't think the season in Nova Scotia is a full month behind upstate NY) and knapweed honey is more medium-dark with no greenish hue." Aaron, is your reference knapweed or knotweed? I am reasonably sure knapweed (a thistle-like noxious weed) starts producing around July 15 and is a very light honey, similar to yellow-star thistle; to which it is related. Knotweed, I think, is a bamboo-like plant and seems to produce as you stated. Lloyd Lloyd Spear, Owner, Ross Rounds, Inc. The finest in comb honey production. www.rossrounds.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 14:23:37 -0500 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Organization: ACB Dept., Univ of Michigan Subject: Re: Knapweed and knotweed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lloyd Spear wrote: > ...is your reference knapweed or knotweed? I am reasonably sure > knapweed (a thistle-like noxious weed) starts producing around July 15 and > is a very light honey, similar to yellow-star thistle; to which it is > related. Knotweed, I think, is a bamboo-like plant and seems to produce as > you stated. > I would agree with Lloyd. Here in southeastern Michigan knapweed (better known here as star thistle) is *the* major summer honey flow source. The honey is very light and delicate, and the plant is abundant, filling all waste places and roadsides. It blooms here from about July 15 to August 15, and when this bloom is over it's time to extract. Interestingly, this honey is exceedingly slow to granulate, a thick liquid through most of the winter. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 11:07:13 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: The BEE-L FAQ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A note to new list members and a reminder to the regulars: OUR FAQ: We have a wonderful FAQ. It consists of the archives of our past decade of discussions, and almost any topic is covered there. Rather than trying to define and answer a limited set of questions, our FAQ allows you to ask any question you want. The beauty of this kind of FAQ is that rather than getting one person's idea of the correct answer to your question, you will get several (sometimes contradictory) replies from which to choose, along with discussion comparing the points of view. SEARCHING: It takes a little time to learn to use the search engine at the archives to give you only the answers you want, but it is well worth the time to learn to search well. There are good instructions available at the site, and a little playing around by searching with synonyms and word fragments and Boolean operators like 'AND' and 'OR' soon teaches one how to search effectively. GUIDELINES: BEE-L is a moderated list with guidelines for acceptable posts. The guidelines are largely to protect the list from SPAM, flames trolls and such abuse, but there are some other requirements for acceptance having to do with tag lines, large signatures, commercials, and quoting previous articles. Please click on this link: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Bee-l.htm for everything you need to participate happily in BEE-L on one page. The site also provides a link to a page where you can post directly to the list. allen ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 19:20:45 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: AFB TODAY MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hygienic behavior which reportedly confers some resistance to AFB is said to be carried on recessive genes. If this is so then there are advantages and disadvantages. It is difficult to eliminate a recessive gene. You cannot identify it to destroy it until the parent, which does not display it herself, carrying it has reproduced offspring which reveal that mum is a bearer of the gene. Then you have to prevent further reproduction from that mother and all her children and seek out and destroy any that have already done so. That is on the presumption that a single gene is responsible when simple Mendellian ratios will apply - heterozygote crossed with heterozygote will produce 25 per cent homozygote dominant, 50 per cent heterozygote and 25 per cent homozygote recessive. It is only the Hz recessive which will be hygienic. If more than one gene is involved, which is more than likely, then we are entering the realms of higher mathematics which are beyond me. I am sure that several of our scientific correspondents will produce formulae which can be applied (please!). Using the simple single gene presumption the beekeeper will have to test his bees for hygienic behavior early in the season before drones are flying. There are several simple ways of doing this. With reasonable luck and a large enough sample a quarter of the colonies will be relatively hygienic. The rest must be culled and replacements bred from the recessives. The loss need not be as drastic as this seems at first sight. All you need to kill are selected queens and drone brood. With careful uniting and subsequent splitting and requeening with queens reared from the hygienic stock you could be getting back to original numbers by the end of the season, but they will be proportionally more hygienic than when you began. With open mating it will be some years before you reap the benefit of flooding the neighbourhood with recessive drones but with perseverance it will come. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 22:27:40 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: SAFB is a New and Distinct Contagious Disease In-Reply-To: <199912021749.MAA10445@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >As such it deserves and new name, and in honor of where it first > >appeared, I'll call it South American Foul Brood or SAFB for short. > > I suggest we call it bad AFB in honor and memory of Andy N. and his > Bad and Sad bees. Well, it crossed my mind, but what I see here is something that needs to be recognized as a distinct new problem and the word 'bad' doesn't make it distinct enough, just makes it seem a bit worse, not VERY DIFFERENT. I'm *not* picking on South America here, anymore than anyone is picking on Americans when speaking of ordinary old AFB or on Europeans when talking of EFB. South America is where this new variety was first detected and therefore deserves the honour IMO. But even if we do not honour Andy in that way, I will honour his spirit by pressing my politically incorrect point past the point of comfort for many, and by adhering to what some have perceived as my politically incorrect appellation: SAFB. > Hold on Allen. There were reports of OTC resistance in Argentina at > least as far back as 1989 well before that study was published. Okay. That was *one* instance AFAIK. I maintain that we may well be still talking about that one instance, but that it has spread. Prove to me that the new outbreaks are not just the same one spreading. > In fact OTC resistance was found in the US for the first time within a > year of the publication of that article when an inspector found some > AFB that was responding to treatment and sent in a sample for testing. Okay, but where did it come from? Does anyone really know? Why assume spontaneous generation occurred when there is a simple and credible alternate theory? Opinions are not facts. Enquiring minds need PROOF that the US and Canadian samples are not descended from the Argentine AFB. Although it is plausible that resistance could have occurred independently, we know that the appearance of AFB resistance to oxytet had not been a common occurrence prior to the South American find. In fact the Argentine case was *unique* for many years. If one accepts Occam's razor there is no excuse for ignoring and for not favouring the obvious simple theory that the subsequent cases are just one and the same virulent strain of a very communicable disease, spread around by international trade. Now, maybe I am wrong and someone has PROVEN that the strains that are appearing in the US and Canada are *not* at all closely related genetically to the strains causing problems in the Argentine, but I have not heard of such proof. That's all it would take to change my understanding and my stance: PROOF. I would have thought that if there were any real proof, that someone would have taken the pleasure of proving me wrong on this point by now. But no one has. I'm beginning to believe that -- on this point, at this time -- no one can. Until we get such proof, I must prefer the most simple and most obvious explanation -- that the disease is imported and the outbreaks are related. It is very hard for me to believe that after many, many uneventful years of use and abuse of sulfa and oxytet, that suddenly, independently and spontaneously AFB at *apparently* isolated locations all over the hemisphere is spontaneously developing resistance. Experience seems to have proven over many years that -- for some reason, and surprisingly -- in consideration of how the drugs were used -- development of oxytet and sulfa resistance in AFB organisms was a very improbable event. At least, that was true until a few years ago, when suddenly everything changed and the improbable *appeared* to become somewhat common. That makes me really suspicious. Why? Is there a change in the environment? Is there somehow communication between distant populations of the bacterium? Or are they the same original colony of resistant micro organisms, spread by modern transportation? To me this last explanation has the most obvious merit, and the first and most popularly accepted explanation is to me the least convincing. It seems, however, that the most obvious explanation -- true or false -- happens to be politically uncomfortable, and the least meritorious argument is the one that makes the most people happy. Why is it that everyone looks the other way when the question of importation is raised, or takes offence; and why is it that those who bother to argue against the suggestion do not offer any proof. Instead they dismiss this possibility out of hand and dwell happily on the politically acceptable alternatives. I realize that people *have* been looking for a common factor between the breakdowns of this new AFB disease, and have settled on extender patties as an explanation: they see extender patties as something new in the administration of drugs and assume that everything else is the same as ever. It also conveniently allows everyone to blame powerless beekeepers rather than well connected international traders, the government scientists, the extension people and the regulators. But hold on there a minute. There is something wrong with the extender patty scenario. Sulfathiozole apparently uses the same mechanism against AFB as oxytet does. Sulfathiazole is a very persistent compound which stays on and on in hives, much like the oxytet in extender patties. If continuous application of such an antibiotic were going to cause widespread independent episodes of resistance, why did this not happen when everyone was using sulfa? Sulfa was universally used and much preferred to oxytet, except where EFB might be a problem. And, I wonder how much serious thought has been given to the idea of communication between the bacteria, either through ubiquitous barnyard or human associated bacteria coming into contact with AFB. It is no secret that there has been widespread tolerance of antibiotics in such familiar and commonplace bacteria and that the resistance to common antibiotic treatments has snowballed recently in such organisms, organisms that are whisked around the world with cattle, hogs and fowl... > >That is not to say that all resistance necessarily originates in the Argentine, > >but we do know that AFB can be very contagious in the absence of resistant bees > >or drugs that are effective, and we do know that honey carries AFB spores very > >nicely. We also know that honey is 1. discarded in open sites, 2. honey drums > >are re-used, sometimes without washing for feeding bees, 3. hobbyists (and > >occasionally commercial beekeepers) sometimes purchase honey to feed their bees. > >You don't have to be a rocket surgeon to figure out the rest... I stick with this. > >What I learned watching TV last night was that micro organisms swap > >DNA on a regular basis when they come into contact with one another and that > >resistance in one bacterium can and will transfer into others that come into > >contact. This may explain why suddenly we are seeing resistance appear all over > >the place in types of bacteria that have previously been isolated and very > >limited in their habitat such as those causing AFB; perhaps they are meeting more > >ubiquitous types of bacteria that are resistant and the resistance is transferring. > > Again hold on there! First horizontal gene transfer ( the process > referred to above ) appears to not be that frequent of an event and > requires close contact between the organisms involved. True, perhaps, but it is just as reasonable -- if not more so -- an explanation as the unsubstantiated party line being supplied to beekeepers by government employees. > Second the > rise of antibiotic resistance does not require such transfer nor > mutation. Simply using an antibiotic will select for those organisms > in the target population which have such resistance. Each and every > use of the antibiotic will select for resistance that is already in > the population. No argument here. But why now, and all over the place, not years ago? The mechanisms of resistance may or may not involve mutation. It depends whether there are any individuals in the population that normally have resistance. From the zero incidence of resistance appearing over the first few decades of antibiotic use against AFB, we must assume that the incidence of resistant individuals in normal populations was a number very closely approaching zero, and that mutation must have been necessary, or that the resistant members of normal populations were not sufficiently fit to stand by themselves if selected. > In fact here resistance appeared first in those > beekeeper's outfits who were most diligent in their treatment program > i.e. they subjected the population of AFB in their hives to the > strongest selection for resistance. I have no evidence of this -- other than anecdotal. Where can I get an authoritative account that I can subject to scrutiny? Who has critiqued these conclusions? Who has analysed them for flaws and pursued alternate explanations and commonalities? And, why were they so diligent? Were they finding that they were unable to control AFB and therefore stepping up their treatment efforts? One is not normally that diligent unless the problem is pretty bad. > Another observation is that > resistance appeared a few years after the widespread use of TM > extender patties which hold the antibiotic in the hive for extended > periods of time in an active form hence vastly increasing the > selection for resistance. See above comments re the probabilities and how my hives seldom were without significant sulfa residues in the brood chambers. > In short, we probably have imported some > but we almost certainly also selected some of our own. Okay, Thanks for conceding the point about probable importation. That was my guess too. And, "almost certainly" is an interesting way of putting the possibility of our having generated our own. IF we have not generated our own and we HAVE INDEED imported some, who is responsible? > Now reread that stuff above on selection and use pesticide instead of > antibiotic and you have a pretty good description of how varroa > resistance to Apistan or other treatments develops. The development > of resistance in both cases involves very similar mechanisms. Yup, same thing. Give the beekeeper only one legal treatment, one that has a certainty of failure in a finite time if used alone without rotation, let resistance develop, then blame the beekeeper -- if some of the SAFB is "Made in USA" (and Canada) -- which I *still* doubt. One thing for sure is that fluvalinate resistance in mites is a lot faster coming about and much more commonplace than the SAFB phenomenon was for many, many, years. Very different in my estimation. > Good discussion and very relevant. Agreed, and it's fun. Thanks for the workout. I look forward to your response. allen ----- See if your questions have been answered in over a decade of discussions. BEE-L archives & more: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Bee-l.htm Search sci.agriculture.beekeeping at http://www.deja.com/ or visit http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee to access both on the same page. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 21:49:56 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Scott Moser Subject: Bee Candy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings all, Spent several evenings making bee candy for candy trays. The basic recipe I followed was 1 qt. water, 15 pounds sugar, bring to a boil, and boil a few minutes. The cream of tartar in the recipe I used was optional. Problem I had with a few of the batches was that they didn't completely harden, and oozed sugar syrup. Did I not boil it long enough, or boil it too long? Any help would be appreciated. Feel free to email me, since it may be redundant for the list. s_moser@mailcity.com Thanks! Scott Moser ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 12:50:20 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Troy Fore Subject: ABF Convention Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The American Beekeeping Federation will hold its annual convention in Fort Worth, Texas, Jan. 12-15. The convention program is filled with presentations of the latest beekeeping information and predictions of what's ahead for the industry, as some of the best speakers address the convention theme: "Seeking New Ways to Be Profitable in 2000 and Beyond." Included in the schedule are the ABF Trade Show exhibiting the newest beekeeping innovations, educational workshops for in-depth exploration, Special Interest Groups for each segment of the industry, a field trip to a beekeeping operation and a honey packing plant, and more. And mixed through all this will be enough fun and social activities to make this a most memorable convention week. The convention opens on Wednesday, Jan. 12, and the keynote address will be by Dr. Bill Wilson "Bee Research Priorities in 2000 and Beyond." The ABF's Special Interest Groups are set for the afternoon. On Thursday, after a half-day of formal sessions, the ABF heads out to Waxahachie for tours of Burleson's honey plant and Mark Brady's new extracting house. Texas beekeepers are planning some show-and-tell displays for the visitors. All this will be followed by a western hoe-down complete with a barbecue dinner. And, for those who may be interested, arrangements will be made to stop by some of Waxahachie's many quaint shops and antique stores. The convention will be held at the Radisson Plaza Hotel, located on the edge of downtown Fort Worth. For more information on the ABF Convention, contact the ABF Office, ph.: 912-427-4233, fax: 912-427-8447, e-mail: info@abfnet.org. Troy Fore Executive Director American Beekeeping Federation, Inc. P.O. Box 1038 ‹ Jesup, Georgia 31598 USA Tel. 912-427-4233 ‹ Fax 912-427-8447 Internet: Serving the Industry Since 1943 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 12:42:59 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard Yarnell Subject: Re: Bee Candy In-Reply-To: <199912051619.LAA28471@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Any general cookbook which has a section on candy will give you a table of temperatures required for the results you want. The "stages" are dependent on temperature. "Crack" or "Hard Crack" are brittle. Time isn't a reliable gauge - it's dependent on altitude, the amount of water in the batch to begin with, etc. But boiling point temperature is an accurate indication of water content. "Joy of Cooking" (Rombauer/Becker) list the following: "Hard Ball" begins at 270F - rigid but pliable "Soft Crack" begins at 270F - cold threads will bend "Hard Crack" begins at 300F - threads break "Caramelized" begins at 310F. Anything above 338F is toast. Once you get close to these temps, stir constantly and keep the thermometer in the solution. Temperature rises very quickly and margins are slender. On Sat, 4 Dec 1999, Scott Moser wrote: > Spent several evenings making bee candy for candy trays. The basic > recipe I followed was 1 qt. water, 15 pounds sugar, bring to a boil, and > boil a few minutes. The cream of tartar in the recipe I used was optional. > Problem I had with a few of the batches was that they didn't completely > harden, and oozed sugar syrup. Did I not boil it long enough, or boil it > too long? --------------- Richard Yarnell, SHAMBLES WORKSHOPS | No gimmick we try, no "scientific" Beavercreek, OR. Makers of fine | fix we attempt, will save our planet Wooden Canoes, The Stack(R) urban | until we reduce the population. Let's composter, fly tying benches | leave our kids a decent place to live. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 14:44:14 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard Bonney Subject: Re: Bee Candy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I have offered the information below on creme of tartar in the past - two years ago or more. The information on making hard candy is new here. It is from an old handout of mine. The recipe is imprecise as to amount of sugar. I haven't made it in a while but I think 10 pounds per quart of water is a good starting point. Dick Bonney rebonney@javanet.com * * * * * * HARD CANDY FOR WINTER FEED Ingredients - granulated sugar and water. For a couple of hives, bring a quart of water to a near boil. Turn off the heat and add as much sugar as will dissolve in the water. Then bring to a full boil, stirring constantly. Take care not to scorch this mixture. Boil for at least thirty minutes, perhaps longer. Test for the soft crack stage by using a candy thermometer. Temperature should be about 275° - 280° F. In the absence of a thermometer, drop a little of the candy into ice water. When done, the mixture should form hard threads in the water, bendable but not brittle. When the candy has reached the proper temperature, pour out onto wax paper, forming a sheet about one quarter inch thick. After it has started to harden, score the surface to aid in breaking the candy into pieces. The finished color should be a light amber. If it is appreciably darker it may be scorched. Scorched candy will kill bees. To use, lay pieces of this candy on top of the frames, over or very close to the brood area. An alternate method is to pour the candy onto the rimmed side of a spare inner cover, instead of onto waxed paper. This cover can then be inverted and placed on the hive over the brood. Using Cream of Tartar. A part of the normal process when bees convert nectar to honey in the hive involves the chemical inversion of sugar. Simply stated, sucrose is converted to glucose and fructose. When we feed bees sugar syrup, they make a similar inversion. The standard feed, granulated sugar, is sucrose. The bees convert this to glucose and fructose before storing it. It has long been the practice of many beekeepers to add tartaric acid to sugar syrup to aid in the inversion process, and instructions for making syrup often call for tartaric acid, either as such, or in the form of cream of tartar. The acid also prevents crystallization of the syrup later. Many years ago a researcher (Leslie Bailey) found that if no natural nectar was coming in, feeding syrup containing cream of tartar (or vinegar) caused dysentery, shortening the lives of the bees to one third that of bees fed plain sugar syrup. This finding was written up at the time but does not seem to have become part of the common knowledge of beekeepers. Tartaric acid is still occasionally recommended, without any qualification as to the possible ill effects. Use it judiciously if at all. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 17:32:45 -0400 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jeff Holbrook Subject: Re: Bee Candy In-Reply-To: <199912052111.QAA02307@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All, There was plenty of good advice from Richard Yarnell and Richard Bonney on candy formation but I wanted to add my 2 cents. Temperature is the critical variable to watch but watch it you must. As any good Maple Syrup producer knows, the temperature required to reach syrup, soft ball or hard ball, hard crack, etc. varies according to barometric pressure. This can be the result of elevation or weather. Even minor changes can effect a major change. For this reason most maple producers will boil water and note the temp. at which it boils prior to finishing any maple product. Each product, has a specific temperature over the boiling point of water at which it must be finished. This way you will get a consistent product. The danger in using a set temperature is that what works for you one day may not work at all the next time as the barometric pressure may be totally different. I hope this helps Thanks for listening! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 21:53:56 GMT Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Computer Software Solutions Ltd Subject: Apiguard Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello All I have recently come across literature from Vita (Europe) Ltd advertising Apiguard. The claim is that Apiguard is a near natural product which in effect liberates Thymol into the hive using a gel system which controls the degree of release. The literature claims that this product is effective in controlling acarapis woodi (Acarine) and also varroa. Has anyone any experience in the use of this product.? Sincerely Tom Barrett 49 South Park, Foxrock Dublin 18 Ireland Tel + 353 1 289 5269 Fax + 353 1 289 9940 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 21:23:42 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: "Keith B. Forsyth" Subject: Re: Apiguard MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi: Dr. Gard Otis of the University of Guelph has done some work with Apiguard. His report was published in the Canadian Honey Council's Hivelights vol. 12, # 3, Aug. 1999, http://www.honeycouncil.ca/chc-ccm/apigard.html . Hope this is of some help. Keith ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 20:20:30 -0500 Reply-To: Garry Libby Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Garry Libby Subject: Re: Bee Candy Hello, I have read that fondant is easier for the bees to eat. This seems very easy to make. As soon as Your sugar syrup reaches the softball stage You place the pan into a sink filled with water and ice, then begin stirring with a whisk. As it cools it will turn to a consistency similar to cake frosting. This is also easier to dispense to the bees. After the crazy weather I experienced in the Northeastern part of the US this year I have a feeling I'll be making a lot of this during this winter. Garry Libby Attleboro, MA USA LibBEE@email.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 06:59:53 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Murray McGregor Subject: Re: Bitter honey In-Reply-To: <199911291856.NAA01634@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 You don't have any Strawberry Trees do you (Arbutus unedo)? We have samples of that honey here and it comes mainly from S. Europe, and Corsica. Looks quite normal, but has a horrid aftertaste like the cough medicine I used to be given 30 or more years ago. Sweet Chestnut is another possibility, especially if the honey is dark. Needless to say there will be a whole host of uniquely N. American species that will also fit the bill, but for 4 hives near an arboretum it could be something from just about anywhere temperate. -- Murray McGregor ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 07:33:46 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Knapweed and knotweed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > Aaron said "Knapweed produces later in the > season in upstate NY, around the beginning of September (I don't think the > season in Nova Scotia is a full month behind upstate NY) and knapweed honey > is more medium-dark with no greenish hue." > > Aaron, is your reference knapweed or knotweed? Yes, I stand corrected. Indeed I confused my knapweed with knotweed. Aaron Morris - thinking this knot head needs a nap! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 07:50:37 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: Bee Candy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This recipe is a bit softer than the others and is the one generally given out each year in our newsletter. 5 lbs sugar 1 pint water bring to boil and heat to 242-245F Pour onto greased cookie sheet to a depth of no more than 3/8 inch so fits under inverted inner cover- or on it if not inverted. Put it over the cluster or on the inner cover. I use about a quarter sheet per hive, but I also overwinter with well in excess of 100lbs of honey per hive. The candy is only for emergency food in case of a cold snap in the spring and the bees cannot get at the honey, but can get to the candy since it is right over them. The sugar slab is white and taken up well by the bees. I freeze excess and use it the next year with no problems. The recipe is similar to the one in Hive and Honey Bee as far as temperature is concerned, but does not use Cream of tartar. Never use Cream of Tartar. It does cause dysentary. You will probably not see the effects in warm climates in the spring with normal rapid buildup and the bees can fly and void, but it will slow them down, so why use it. Lots on this in the archives, pro and con. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 09:15:08 BST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: andy sutherland Organization: Manchester University and UMIST Subject: Re: BEE-L Digest - 4 Dec 1999 to 5 Dec 1999 (#1999-253) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi Tom, You wrote I have recently come across literature from Vita (Europe) Ltd advertising Apiguard. The claim is that Apiguard is a near natural product which in effect liberates Thymol into the hive using a gel system which controls the degree of release. The literature claims that this product is effective in controlling acarapis woodi (Acarine) and also varroa. Has anyone any experience in the use of this product.? Sincerely Tom Barrett I am Secretary of the Oldham & District Beekeepers Association. We were asked to try this in trials at our Association Apiary before it went on general sale to see how good it was. We used the Apiguard gel trays in the hive for up to the specified time ( Although as it also works at a certain Temperature and above it cannot be used very late in the year). The results were very good and we also used it for testing any swarms we collected last year, and within two days of putting the treatment in the fall was significant. I have used Apistan this year, but many members chose to use Apiguard and were just as impressed. Hope this helps Andy Andy Sutherland E-Mail:- Andy.Sutherland@man.ac.uk Manchester University Tel:- 0161 275 4641 Electronics Section Fax:- 0161 275 4598 Chemistry Dept M13 9PL ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 07:46:57 -0000 Reply-To: Ruary Rudd Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ruary Rudd Organization: Westgate, waterville Subject: candy Comments: To: s_moser@mailcity.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Scott, I think that you didn't boil it long enough, and probably didn't beat it enough either, I use the mnemonic of 1,2,3,4,5, to remember the formula; one part water to 5 parts sugar by weight, and boil to a temperature of 234 degrees Fahrenheit. Take off heat and cool rapidly stirring continuously, when mixture starts to whiten pour off into containers, this must be done quickly or the candy will harden as it pours. I have never use cream of tartar Ruary Rudd rrudd@eircom.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 15:31:27 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Max Watkins Subject: Re: Apiguard In-Reply-To: <199912052308.SAA04583@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Apiguard came on to the market in the UK last summer and is being registered in most EU Member States and several other countries now, hopefully for next summer. Most of the trials (over the past 5 years) have been conducted by beekeepers and bee institutes/Universities in Europe, especially in Italy, France and Switzerland, areas of substantial pyrethroid resistance. Average results are 90%+ (varroa and trachael mite) but there is some variation with temperature (more variable when external median temperature is less than 15 C). Widescale tests by beekeeping organisations in France and Italy this year gave good results in some 6000 colonies. Trials in the UK {independent beekeepers} and Jersey {Ministry of Agriculture} went very well too. However, this product is NOT going to be, and was not intended to be another Apistan. Control levels of 98-99% are not expected [although we have seen this many times with Apiguard] but the product is designed to be one tool in an integrated approach to mite control. A secondary treatment later/earlier in the season should be performed, just in case - eg drone brood trapping, use of formic acid etc. Max Dr Max Watkins Vita (Europe) Limited Tel 44 (0) 1256 473177 Brook House, Alençon Link, Fax 44 (0) 1256 473179 Basingstoke, Hampshire RG21 7RD, UK http://www.vita.demon.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 16:21:58 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "A.JOHNSTON" Subject: Apiguard. Comments: To: BEE-L MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tom & others. Herewith the results of my OBSERVATIONS! on my use of Apiguard on six = colonies, 5 Modified Commercial 16"x10"--Nos.1 to 5, No.6 --B.S.National = 14"X 8" combs.Single brood chambers. Started on 21/8/99 after the honey = had been taken. No1. No2. No3. No4. No5. = No6. 21/8/99 2 1 4 0 = 2 0 Natural mite = fall 1 week = 1stApiguard in 4/9/99 2nd Apiguard in as per instructions. Total No. of mites counted weekly from 21/8/99 to 3/10/99 654 132 318 71 = 356 53 On the 3/10/99 when the empty Apiguard trays were removed two Apistan = strips were inserted.The colonies were also fed sugar syrup at this time = as feeding before or during Apiguard use reduces it's = effectiveness(Communication with Max Watkins,Vita Europe) Total No. of mites counted on three occasions from 3/10/99 to 13/11/99 325 62 2 7 = 17 12 Total No. of mites since 21/8/99 979 194 320 78 = 373 65 It seems that Apiguard needs temperatures above 15deg.C I did not = record Temps. but we have had the warmest and sunniest autumn since 1956 If this comes over as "gobledegook" e-mail me and I will send the whole = document attached. Andy Johnston. "Bedfordshire" Southeast England. e-mail ajohn@globalnet.co.uk=20 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 21:43:07 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pollinator@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Knapweed and knotweed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/6/99 6:42:58 AM Pacific Standard Time, AMorris@UAMAIL.ALBANY.EDU writes: << > Aaron said "Knapweed produces later in the > season in upstate NY, around the beginning of September (I don't think the > season in Nova Scotia is a full month behind upstate NY) and knapweed honey > is more medium-dark with no greenish hue." > > Aaron, is your reference knapweed or knotweed? Yes, I stand corrected. Indeed I confused my knapweed with knotweed. Aaron Morris - thinking this knot head needs a nap! >> C'n I add to the confusion? Knapweed (more poetically called star thistle) is a very fine light honey, that is good enough to frequently and fraudulently be sold as sourwood. Knotweed, (because of it's jointed stems) is also called bamboo, or Japanese bamboo, though it is not a true bamboo. It is a broadleaf plant that is a cousin to buckwheat, and could be called a mild buckwheat honey (very nice). It is common along the Susquehenna River flood plain, where it tends to force out all other vegetation, and can produce big crops in August. I am surprised by the reference to a greenish hue in knotweed honey, as I would call it a rich brown. Is there some purple loosestrife in the greenish honey referred to above? Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Home Page: http://www.pollinator.com Unique Y2K gifts for your pollination customers, and gardening friends: http://members.aol.com/PotGold/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 23:05:48 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jean-Francois Lariviere Subject: Re: Antibacterial properties of honey NEWS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Fresh off the presses & in reply to Anne who wrote "I have heard of the highly antibacterial properties of several types of honey, not to mention propolis itself-". : National Honey Board Honey as Medicine! Australia Produces a World's First LONGMONT, Colo., Dec. 6 /PRNewswire/ -- Australia achieved a world-first on November 30, 1999 with the release of a pure honey treatment for wounds and sores -- MEDIHONEY(R). Developed in association with Capilano Honey Limited and researched by the Agency for Food and Fiber Sciences and the University of Waikato Honey Research Unit in New Zealand, MEDIHONEY(R) is the first topical honey product in the world to achieve Therapeutic Goods Administration (TGA) listing in Australia. Scientific literature shows that highly active antimicrobial honey from the nectar of particular Leptospermum trees has been used to successfully heal a wide variety of wounds and infections which have not responded to other treatments. Research conducted by Associate Professor Dr. P.C. Molan at University of Waikato Department of Biological Sciences in New Zealand, has shown that the antimicrobial component of the Leptospermum honey is particularly effective against virulent 'Golden Staph' (Staphylococcus aureus) bacteria -- even when diluted more than 50 times. The use of honey as a wound dressing goes back to ancient times and has continued into present-day folk medicine. It is a common observation in medical journal reports that numerous benefits result from using honey to dress wounds: * The viscosity of honey provides a protective barrier to prevent wounds from becoming infected. * Honey stimulates the re-growth of tissue involved in the healing process. It stimulates the formation of new blood capillaries and the growth of fibroblasts that replace the connective tissue of the deeper layer of the skin and produce the collagen fibers that give strength to the repair. * Honey does not stick to the underlying wound tissues, so there is no tearing away of newly formed tissue, and no pain, when dressings are changed. * Honey has an anti-inflammatory action, which reduces the swelling around a wound. This improves circulation and thus hastens the healing process. It also reduces pain. The amount of fluid exuding from wounds is also decreased by the anti-inflammatory action. * The high sugar content of honey draws lymph out of a wound, which lifts dirt out of the wound bed. * Honey rapidly clears infection from wounds. It is fully effective even with antibiotic-resistant strains of bacteria. Unlike antiseptics and antibiotics there is no impairment of the healing process through adverse effects on wound tissues. Honey researchers feel that the therapeutic potential of honey is grossly underutilized. It is widely available in most communities and although the mechanism of action of several of its properties remains obscure and needs further investigation, the time has now come for conventional medicine to look at this traditional remedy. With increasing interest in the use of alternative therapies and as the development of antibiotic-resistant bacteria spreads, honey may finally receive its due recognition. For information contact Mary Ann Johnson at 415-268-5421 or mjohnson@zfpartners.com SOURCE National Honey Board CO: National Honey Board; Capilano Honey Limited; Agency for Food and Fiber Sciences; University of Waikato ST: Colorado, Australia, New Zealand IN: HEA MTC FOD SU: PDT 12/06/1999 14:29 EST http://www.prnewswire.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 11:01:55 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Arburn47@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Scientists Comb Hives for Mite-Resistant Honey Bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thought this might be of interest: This item is one of the news releases and story leads that ARS Information distributes on weekdays to fax and e-mail subscribers. You can also get the latest ARS news on the World Wide Web at http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/thelatest.htm. * Feedback and questions to ARS News Service via e-mail: isnv@ars-grin.gov. * ARS Information Staff, 5601 Sunnyside Ave., Room 1-2251, Beltsville MD 20705-5128, (301) 504-1617, fax 504-1648. ---------- From: "ARS News Service" To: "ARS News List" Subject: Mite-Resistant Honey Bees Date: Tue, Dec 7, 1999, 6:40 AM STORY LEAD: Scientists Comb Hives for Mite-Resistant Honey Bees ----------- ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA Marcia Wood, (510) 559-6070, mwood@asrr.arsusda.gov December 7, 1999 ----------- Beekeepers can produce and maintain colonies of domesticated honey bees that are resistant to varroa mites, one of the insects' worst enemies, according to nearly five years of tests by Agricultural Research Service scientists in Tucson, Ariz. Varroa mites are eight-legged, blood-sucking parasites that have decimated hives of the domesticated honey bee, Apis mellifera, in nearly every state. Eric H. Erickson of the ARS Carl Hayden Bee Research Center in Tucson led the Arizona study, in which about 190,000 bees were analyzed. The scientists populated three research apiaries with survivor bees from Arizona hives not treated with mite-killing chemicals called miticides. To see if the colonies would become naturally infested, the scientists kept the hives free of the miticides. Then, the researchers determined whether the bees had been attacked by mites. Colonies of susceptible bees were removed and replaced with progeny from the mite-tolerant colonies. The test hives averaged only 7 mites per 100 bees at the end of about four years of this selective breeding. In some years, some hives were mite free. The ARS experiment, reported in the December 1999 issue of the American Bee Journal, provides more evidence that beekeepers and breeders can keep hives relatively free of mites through selective breeding to populate apiaries with mite-tolerant stock. The scientists recommend that beekeepers regularly inspect their colonies for mite resistance and then select queens--for breeding--from the colonies with the lowest mite populations. Some beekeepers and breeders are already doing this. And scientists in Germany and Russia, for instance, have also found Apis mellifera hives that are naturally resistant to the mites. Erickson did the work with Anita H. Atmowidjojo of the University of Arizona and commercial beekeeper Lenard H. Hines of Sierra Vista, Ariz. According to Erickson, it is relatively easy to find varroa-tolerant colonies in commercial hives and to produce and maintain varroa-tolerant honey bees. Currently, miticides are the principal control. The new findings offer beekeepers another new option for strengthening their hives' mite resistance. What's more, ARS announced in August that mite-tolerant queens, descended from honey bees the agency imported from Russia, would be commercially available next year. ARS scientists in Baton Rouge, La., led by Thomas E. Rinderer, imported and tested the mite-tolerant Russian honey bees. The Agricultural Research Service is USDA's chief research agency. ---------- Scientific contacts: Eric H. Erickson, ARS Carl Hayden Bee Research Center, 200 East Allen Rd., Tucson, AZ 85719, phone (520) 670-6481, ext. 104, fax (520) 670-6493, eric@tucson.ars.ag.gov, and Thomas E. Rinderer, ARS Honey Bee Breeding, Genetics and Physiology Research Unit, 1157 Ben Hur Rd., Baton Rouge, LA 70820, phone (225) 767-9280, fax (225) 766-9212, trinderer@asrr.arsusda.gov. ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 12:29:44 -0700 Reply-To: vconnell@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: vconnell@FREENET.EDMONTON.AB.CA Subject: caucasian queens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Does anyone know of commercial queen breeders in Australia, New Zealand or Canada who sell queens which are predominantly caucasian ? Malcolm Connell ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 15:47:53 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: William Morong Subject: Re: Scientists Comb Hives for Mite-Resistant Honey Bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:01 AM 12/7/1999 EST, Arburn47 wrote: >The scientists recommend that beekeepers regularly >inspect their colonies for mite resistance and then select queens--for >breeding--from the colonies with the lowest mite populations. Some >beekeepers and breeders are already doing this. This can create a dilemma. I have one colony from a package that arrived with other packages infested with Apistan resistant mites. This colony lived all season amidst mite infested neighbors, but no matter how hard or long I looked, there was nary a mite in that colony. Every one of hundreds of drone pupae was totally clean. They made more comb sections by far than any other colony, under the same conditions. They are always exceedingly populous. They are of average gentleness. Now the other horn of the dilemma: Despite copious brood space and lots of supers, they made juicy swarm cells all summer long, persisting into mid October after the leaves had fallen, after killing frosts, etc., at which time they were found checking out the landowner's garage. This peskiness ceased after the last juicy cell was cut out in late October. As you can imagine, with cells always in progress that colony was copiously provided with other colonies' mite-carrying drones. Now I'm debating with myself whether next season to propagate this queen's stock for their good points, or to pinch the old girl off. I'm leaning toward preserving them and trying them in a long hive to attempt to satisfy them. A dilemma. Bill Morong ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 23:34:33 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jorn Johanesson Subject: is Varroa Varroa ! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Referencing an article in the Danish Beekeeper magazine! Anderson & Truemann a lot is pointing at, that 5-6 sorts of Varroa is present in the World. All which is harming the bees differently. Varroa Jacobsoni Oud, that was first described in 1904 is apparently not that Mite, that is spread in the most of the world. The suspect about this was raised in New Guinea, where it was found, that some mites were very dangerous to European bees while other didn't harm the families. An examination of mites from 32 different places in the world shows that there exists 5-6 different Varroamites. They are of clearly different size, character of reproduction and in mihochondie DNA composition. It obviously shows that Varroa Jacobini keeps to its original host the Asiatic honey bee Apis cerana. Obviously it is only this sort that can harm beefamilies. Special the so known Korean type is found in Europe and USA, while the Japanese type is found in South America and in a few places in USA. It is only those two strains that have been able to infest the European bee, while the other lives on the Asiatic bee Apis cerana. This could explain that the South American bees are tolerant to ! the mites. Maybe the Japanese type is not that aggressive as the Korean type that we find on our (Danish) bees. best regards Jorn Johanesson EDBi = multilingual Beekeeping software since 1987 http://apimo.dk (USA) apimo@post4.tele.dk Jorn_Johanesson@apimo.dk Read the article about use of oxalic and formic acid in the fight of the Varroa at the above URL now also as Adobe PDF format! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 15:57:14 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: deelusbybeekeeper@UP2ME.COM Subject: Fwd: Coumaphos reaction with fluvalinate Comments: To: BEE-L@uacsc2.albany.edu Comments: cc: Gordon@apis.demon.co.uk Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 ------- Start of forwarded message ------- Subject: Coumaphos reaction with fluvalinate To: honeybee@rsru2.tamu.edu From: deelusbybeekeeper@up2me.com Cc: trindere@asrr.arsusda.gov Date: 07 Dec 1999 15:54:18 PST Hi my friends, this is Dee. Question: remember the bad results in mixing fluvalinate with amitraz awhile back?Getting calls now on strange happenings with the new coumaphos: possible reaction? So I checked out some chemical books i just happen to have.....Question:In my Agricultural Chemicals Book 1 Insecticides, 1992 revision, by W.T. Thomson, page 220 now quoted in reference to using coumaphos "Do not use before or after application of natural or synthetic pyrethrins or compounds used to synergize them." If fluvalinate is a class 2 synthetic-pyrethroid and many beekeepers are now going to switch to coumaphos, has this warning under coumaphos not to use with pyrethrins been checked out? Does Germany where coumaphos is used also use fluvalinate safely or hasn't it been checked out either? I'd hate to see another amitraz/fluvalinate blowout repeated. Signed: Dee ______________________________________________________________ Get your FREE Web based email account now at www.up2mail.com - and send and receive emails worldwide! ------- End of forwarded message ------- ______________________________________________________________ Get your FREE Web based email account now at www.up2mail.com - and send and receive emails worldwide!