From MAILER-DAEMON Sun Feb 13 07:13:03 2000 Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA08350 for ; Sun, 13 Feb 2000 07:13:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02337 for ; Sun, 13 Feb 2000 07:13:01 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200002131213.HAA02337@listserv.albany.edu> Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 07:13:01 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8d)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG9912C" To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Content-Length: 104431 Lines: 2317 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 22:42:11 -0500 Reply-To: beeman@kingston.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: kent stienburg Subject: Re: A beginner's question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Carmenie, Well AFB can be spread from robbing or drifting of bees. However, since your hives where used and I assume you didn't know why bees where no longer kept in them then the spores may have been in the equipment. Since you have burnt one hive. Watch the remaining hives this spring. If it shows up again in my opinion you have 2 choices. 1. Burn the hive. 2. Move the bees in to a completely new hive with fresh foundation and feed heavily with fresh syrup. Leave all the brood and honey behind. Burn them then bury the remains. The spores are passed to the larvae in food. By the time the queen has cells to lay in the bees should have used up any food they may have had with them. I would only do this if there are enough bees to make it worth while. Just my opinion. Good luck Kent Kingston, Ontario ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 22:54:23 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: kathleen darrell Subject: Re: A beginner's question Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > > Carmenie,of > > Markdale, Ontario, Canada > wrote about her experience with AFB and old equipment. I have kept bees for over 25 years and still worry about used bee equipment. Yes, Carmenie, I think you got AFB with the equipment. Check out the method suggested by Doug McRory, Provincial Apiarist Ontario Ministry of Agriculture, in that the bees, from the AFB infested hive, are saved by shaking them onto a cloth in front of a hive body with foundation. The old infested frames are burned, while hive bodies etc are scorched if otherwise worthy. The Dufferin Beekeepers Association meets in Orangeville Ontario at the OMAFRA office, second Tuesday each month at 7:30PM. Tomorrow is our Christmas Potluck Dinner. Join us then or in the newyear. Bob Darrell RR#2 Caledon Ontario CANADA L0N1C0 80W44N ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 11:51:06 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Murray McGregor Subject: Re: fumidil experiment In-Reply-To: <199912141301.IAA03329@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 >FWIW, I am somewhat skeptical that comb fumigation with acetic acid, and >comb renewal programs are sufficient to solve the problem (although I do not >disbelieve the European experience). I started over 200 packages this past >spring from New Zealand, and they were shaken from two different beekeepers. >I also picked up another batch of over 200 for other beekeepers. In both >cases the majority of the load came in excellent condition and some were >very very poor. It was determined that one of the beekeepers had high >levels of nosema and this was the likely cause. Although it is some years now since we imported package bees due to health restrictions, there was always a golden rule. NEVER, NEVER instal them without a good feed of clean fumidil treated syrup. The same applies in almost as great importance to shaken swarms, which we HAVE done in more recent years (basically a package you make yourself). Without treatment bees subjected to this kind of stress suffer a high attrition rate from Nosema, and related dysentry. Untreated, as many as 75% could die in the coming winter, yet that can drop to below 20%, even below 10% with the use of fumidil. 5 years ago I was tempted to do an experiment with shaken swarms (in May) and found that of the 20 left untreated only 3 survived (and all 3 were weak) the coming winter, even after the whole summer to recover from what had been done to them, but 16 of the treated ones came through, of which many were strong. I reckon that is an experiment not worth repeating. It does take bees a good while...up to a year, and sometimes more... to fully get over having this done to them. They have been stressed severely and that does make them vulnerable to the nosema which is around everywhere. Even migratory operations sometimes are plagued with high numbers of small colonies and slow build up in spring which is often related to some degree of nosema, again stress related. Yes, we fumigate all the combs from winter dead outs. Yes, we cut out and burn any heavily soiled combs from apparently nosema troubled colonies. No, we do not routinely treat with fumidil, except where stress has been likely. However, all these have their place in a balanced programme of management for nosema. Local factors have a great influence as well. We have cold, but not severely so, winters here in Scotland, which tend to be long, grey, and damp. Typical of maritime climates, but by tradition this is just the kind of winter to give rise to nosema troubles. Others on the list will have completely different problems which means that there will be no substitute for local knowledge of what works and what does not for your area. I guess that what this really comes round to is that I probably agree with Stan. Given management practices involving high amounts of migration, coupled with the use of packages or shaken swarms and temperate to cold weather wintering, that fumidil is an important weapon in the battle to contol nosema. I do not subscribe to the view that it should be a universal, annual treatment, certainly in our local circumstances. Murray -- Murray McGregor ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 08:49:02 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Roger Flanders Subject: U.S. Public Lands MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My search of the Bee-L archives revealed only scattered references to bees on public lands. I'm wondering if it is legal, and if so, how is permission obtained, to "pasture" bees, even temporarily, on U.S. Forest Service or BLM public lands? Do any of the list's subscribers, particularly from western states, know whether it would be legal to move a trailer of hives temporarily onto public land to try to take advantage of a mountain wildflower bloom? --Rog Flanders ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 20:20:26 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Midnitebee Subject: Update/articles MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings! We have updated the "Bee Articles"... Dec.issue (George Imirie) http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee Herb/Norma Holly-B Apiary P.O. Box 26 Wells,Maine 04090-0026 Beekeeping Site http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee Stony Critters Maine's First Rock Painting Site http://pages.ivillage.com/wh/stonycritters/index.html "an educated consumer is YOUR best customer" ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 21:21:47 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tim Rich Subject: Re: Hive design MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Carmenie Stemmler asked about the D.E hive design.=20 Chris Slade said:=20 I have looked at the design of the David Eyre hive on his web site . . . = The innovation is the ventilation system which I have not tried but is = on my very long list of things to do. And Garry Libby said: I have two D.E. Hives and I think they are great. During the hottest days of last summer when My ten other hives had huge beards on the = front, My D.E. Hives had none, this is due to the great ventilation those hives feature. I also have the conversion kit on one hive, then, as I am a hobby wood = worker tried making an 11 frame D.E. hive to - as I have a significant = investment in Peirco frames(sorry Dave). I have experimented with = several different hive bottoms and am experimenting to make a hive = bottom that will allow mite drop counts without moving hive bottom. = However, I must admit that my years of bee keeping to not compare with = those who have been doing this for years. The thing that amazed my = neighbor, who has kept bees for more than 50 years is how many bees were = in my hives - and being in the Southern USA, that they never had a = beard! He puts additional covers over his hives (plywood painted white) = to keep his bees from all hanging out! =20 As to productivity - I just know that I have more honey than we need, = and find it to be a great way to give gifts to those who have = everything. Except honey from my sons hives. Cannot compare to my = neighbor's hives - has different bees(more aggressive) and wooden frames = with foundation. I bought a queen from him for one of my hives that = went queen-less after split(I am still learning) and will learn how to = replace a productive queen this spring as I don't like to be stung! =20 He likes the design of the hive and we will try it on his hives next = spring. Will take his most unproductive hive and one of his more = productive hives for production experiment. Best of luck to you in your bee keeping. =20 Tim Rich=20 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 13:18:50 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: U.S. Public Lands In-Reply-To: <199912151521.KAA12315@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:49 AM 12/15/99 -0600, you wrote: The issue is not so much the public lands, but state laws. For example, in MT, you can't place bees anywhere without registering the apiary. The location must be down to the 1/4 section. You can't place your bees close than 3 miles to the next nearest beekeeper (who has a properly registered bee site). There are some exceptions to this distance limit for landowners who keep bees and hobbiests. So, if you pull your trailer into MT and set it on an unregistered site, you will probably get to meet the local Sheriff. Next door in Washington, the registrations work somewhat differently. Jerry J. Bromenshenk, Ph.D. Director, DOE/EPSCoR & Montana Organization for Research in Energy The University of Montana-Missoula Missoula, MT 59812-1002 E-Mail: jjbmail@selway.umt.edu Tel: 406-243-5648 Fax: 406-243-4184 http://www.umt.edu/biology/more http://www.umt.edu/biology/bees ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 15:47:12 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: William Morong Subject: Hive ventilation Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I cannot say whether the D.E. hives successfully address the ventilation problem, but can vouch for the fact that the usual arrangement does not. This Fall, with the colonies populous and finishing off their Fumidil syrup, the top shavings in the shavings boxes got quite wet. I tried spacing the outer covers up 1/2", then 1", using drywall screws. Despite 1/2" clearance horizontally all around between the box and the outer cover, and the new vertical clearance made above the box edges, things were still too wet. I made new outer covers which greatly increased ventilation above the shavings box, and succeeded in getting things dried out. Now with the syrup gone, and temperatures between 20 and 40 F, the bees have settled down, and just for a test I tried a regular cover, which now seems to work, but you can bet that once Spring feeding starts and the willow and maple yield nectar, that regular outer cover will make things wet again. It is deceptive to check the dryness out in mildly cool weather when the bees' metabolic rates are low. My guess is that in this climate, any detectable moisture now is too much. It's no wonder that I saw a little chalkbrood in some colonies early last Spring. Furthermore, last season when the bees were curing honey, things got too moist and some bees started gnawing wood at cracks to get more ventilation. (The outer covers were already spaced up about 3/8".) I made a 5" diameter hole in each inner cover and screened it with metal screen. Had the bees found this excessive they easily could have propolized it, but did not. Perhaps larger holes were needed. I suspect that despite all this, plus a 2" high entrance with Killion slatted boards, my bees' ventilation was marginal. If the bees bring in 15# of nectar in a day and cure it, much water must come out of the hive. It is further questionable whether my central location of the screened hole was good, as the bees tend to block off the lower central combs containing brood with their bodies when fanning and direct their fanning to pull air down at the sides of the hive. Perhaps the bees' propensity to fill central combs more willingly relates to the difficulty in establishing good airflow in corners. Do we humans have an inkling of 10% of what would be optimal? The season's end frustrated further learning, but what was learned made the need for something like the D.E. hive seem very real. Bill Morong ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 15:36:07 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: U.S. Public Lands Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To place hives on U.S. Forest land, I believe one must have a "grazing" permit from that agency ahead of time. That is, bee pasture becomes leased out to individual beekeepers, with a fee charged for each hive in place and the actual site negotiated with the regional ranger. At least, that is what I did in the past. Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 963-8508 (home phone) 967 Garcia Road (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 **************************************************************************** ******* * * "The history of physics is the history of giving up cherished ideas." * * Andrew Strominger, Harvard physicist (1999) * **************************************************************************** ******* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 19:15:49 -0800 Reply-To: JamesCBach Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: JamesCBach Subject: Fumidil experiment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Stan Sandler and Murray McGregor make some good comments on Nosema in honey bees. But remember that, as with all diseases, and conditions of colonies you don't know whether the bees have Nosema, or other organism, unless you do some laboratory work. Observations may suggest that the "condition" of a colony(s) is not as it should be, but defining the condition or identifying the malady can only be done by the laboratory. (Even though Varroa can be seen you don't know the level of infection until you conduct a survey.) Anything else is mere conjecture. Conjecture costs the beekeeping industry hundreds of thousands of dollars each year in the US because the business decision was not based upon laboratory work or doing a literature search. Drs. Furgala and Mussen did the definitive work on Nosema years ago and there has been some additional science since then. You might read my article in the November 1999 Gleanings on Page 34 for additional studies in Washington State. Thanks James C. Bach jcbach@yvn.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 19:28:30 -0800 Reply-To: JamesCBach Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: JamesCBach Subject: U.S. public lands MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We have recently completed more than four years of work on advocating the use of public lands (state and federal) for bee pasture and staging areas. As Adrian and Jerry state, you can't just put bees on public lands, or private for that matter. Such action is trespassing. The US. Forest Service and BLM have specific language in code allowing them the discretion of issuing use permits to beekeepers. Access to specific sites is based upon the specific or general statutory purpose of the land use. If apiary sites mesh with the statutory purpose, then permits may be issued. Example: WA Fish and Wildlife won't permit apiaries on sites during wildlife calving periods. Usually the fee is based upon some schedule defining the current market value for the use. In Washington, state land is permitted in the same manner. Private land is permitted according to the policy of the owner and usually there is more negotiation about the cost of the permit. James C. Bach jcbach@yvn.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 22:17:37 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David & Sarah Grew-Foss Subject: Apistan Lifespan Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Last week I wrote about the high levels of mites in the drone bood of one of my hives when I pulled my Apistan strips. The strips were one year old at the time of placement in the hive and had been stored in their original package, out of sunlight. At the suggestion of Lloyd Spear I called the manufacurer. They felt that the strips were NO GOOD becasue they were old. Their reasoning was that because the original packaging was not sealed in an airtight package the fluvinate dried up and lost effectiveness. If you have extra strips after treating be sure to put them in two zip-lock bags, one inside the other, otherwise the strips may go to waste. Now if only they would really tell you how to store them we might not lose as many bees. I would like to thank Lloyd for his help. Sarah Grew Wildcat Canyon, CA USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 21:06:52 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Subject: FGMO Update Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I have the latest update from Dr. Rodriguez on this years use of FGMO and his application method and results. http://www.birkey.com/BLB/Beekeeping/mineraloil.html -Barry -- Barry Birkey West Chicago, IL U.S.A. www.birkey.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 08:05:42 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Murray McGregor Subject: Re: Fumidil experiment In-Reply-To: <199912160449.XAA05264@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 In article <199912160449.XAA05264@listserv.albany.edu>, JamesCBach writes > But remember that, as with all diseases, and conditions of colonies >you don't know whether the bees have Nosema, or other organism, unless you >do some laboratory work. I agree, but in a practical world, where we have 1700 hives, and two people to do them all, finding the time to do lab work just detracts from getting on with the job. There are others on this list with far more colonies to get through than us, so the sheer logistics of the suggestion that they should all be sampled and tested (even at an outside lab) is not practicable. > Observations may suggest that the "condition" of a >colony(s) is not as it should be, but defining the condition or identifying >the malady can only be done by the laboratory. We always, at a commercial level, have to play the odds rather than going for complete certainty. We have 50 years experience of seeing the effects of nosema, and although we won't be right every time we get a pretty good idea of what is going on just by observation. >Conjecture costs the beekeeping industry >hundreds of thousands of dollars each year in the US because the business >decision was not based upon laboratory work Unless you value your time at a very low level, and are able to do your tests yourself, which is admittedly a possibility at a smaller scale level, the cost of a lab test is many times more than the cost of a fumidil treatment. If you know the vulnerability of certain colonies due to stress etc, and that a high proportion of them will exhibit some degree of nosema symptoms, then a prophylactic treatment is prudent and economically sound. Perhaps, for arguments sake, say 50% turned out not to need it in lab tests, you will have saved the cost of treating 50% of them, but added the cost of treating 100% of them. Thus I would probably argue that this conjecture, which is only valid if based on experience and/or good research, actually SAVES a lot of money. Once again though, I am NOT arguing for universal annual prophylactic treatment. Only where a definite risk pattern is established should it be applied to all colonies subject to these circumstances. Another situation could be where you have noted a rising trend of nosema related symptoms occurring in your colonies, because waiting until you have a serious outbreak proven by testing is, at least economically, way way too late. One round of treatment applied at the correct time can tidy you up for seasons to come. Sometimes you will get it wrong, but in a small minority of cases. The colony which does not have nosema, but is in a high risk group, will not be harmed by treatment. Occasionally your symptoms may be the result of something else stressing the colony, such as tracheal mites or queen problems, although nowadays colonies failing from tracheal (acarine) mites is relatively rare here. In those cases you wasted the treatment and the colony will still fail, when an alternative measure may have succeeded. Once again, though, this brings us back to commercial reality, where this minority that are not right are just accepted to be write-offs which will die( that could start a few flames!). Of course, you do not know which ones they are until they are dead in spring. There is just no economic sense in testing everything exhaustively to look for a few colonies which do not fit into the pattern your experience or knowledge dictate. In the case of the few colonies suffering tracheal mite related symptoms, saving them, especially in a situation where the vast majority of the colonies are mite tolerant, just perpetuates the problem. >You might read my article in the November 1999 Gleanings on Page 34 for >additional studies in Washington State. I don't get Gleanings. I used to back in the 80's, but currently the only US journal I subscribe to is ABJ. Is there an on line version I can go to look at? Kind regards to all Murray -- Murray McGregor ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 10:01:14 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Anthony N Morgan Organization: Sor-Trondelag College, Division of Electronic Engineering Subject: Re: FGMO Update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Barry Birkey wrote: > > I have the latest update from Dr. Rodriguez on this years use of FGMO and > his application method and results. > > http://www.birkey.com/BLB/Beekeeping/mineraloil.html Dr. Rodriguez refers to the use of Penreco Drakeol (FGMO), having found a site http://www.chemexpo.com/show/exhibitorhall/penreco/html/mineral-oils.html that gives specifications for Penreco Drakeol white mineral oils (food grade) I note that there are *many* viscosity grades. The latest update from Dr. Rodriguez does NOT specify which grade was used with the Burgess Propane Insect Fogger, nor is the composition of the "FGMO/sugar emulsion, provided by Penreco Technology Center laboratories" specified. For the report to be meaningful this lack of information should be corrected forthwith. Applying FGMO by two methods simultaneously is not justified in the report - each method used alone was presumably not considered enough - some explanation of the reasoning ought to be included. Anthony N Morgan, ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 10:18:21 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Midnitebee Subject: 2000 Beekeeping Workshop MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greetings! Just letting other folks know about the Auburn University Honey Bee = Management Symposium Herb/Norma Holly-B Apiary P.O. Box 26 Wells,Maine 04090-0026 Rare and Old Beekeeping Books http://www.cybertours.com/%7Emidnitebee/html/books.html Beekeeping Site http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee Stony Critters Maine's First Rock Painting Site http://pages.ivillage.com/wh/stonycritters/index.html "an educated consumer is YOUR best customer" Auburn University Honey Bee Management Symposium Saturday, February 12, 2000=20 8:00 a.m. to 3:30 p.m. Auburn University -- Lowder Business Building 415 West Magnolia Ave Auburn, Alabama Registration: $15.00 per person Sponsors: =20 Alabama Extension System (Department of Entomology & Plant Pathology, = Auburn University) State of Alabama, Dept. of Alabama & Industries, Plant Protection = Section =20 In cooperation with The Alabama State Beekeepers' Association Instructors =20 .Mr. Bobby Fanning, President, Alabama State Beekeepers' = Association, Huntsville, AL .Mr. John Grafton, Ohio Department of Agriculture, Apiculture = Section, Reynoldsburg, OH .Mr. David Heilman, Apiculturist and Master Beekeeper, = Entomology, The Ohio State University .Mr. Dwight Tew, President, Tennessee State Beekeepers' = Association, Franklin, TN .Dr. James E. Tew, Entomology, The Ohio State University and = Extension Consultant, Auburn University Symposium Topics=20 .Small Hive Beetle .Commercial = Pollination .New Bee Equipment Ideas .Bee Biology & = Behavior .Getting Started in Beekeeping .Marketing Your Honey = Locally Auburn Beekeeping Workshop Registration Form Pre-Registration Deadline: February 4, 2000 Name(s):=20 Address: City: State: = Zip: =20 Telephone: ( ) Fax: = E-Mail: Quantity = Total Registration @ $15.00 per person Make check payable to: Auburn University Mail to: Ms. Sandy Pouncey, Dept. of Entomology, 301 Funchess Hall, = Auburn University, AL 36849-5615; Telephone: (334) 844-2551; Fax: = (334) 844-5005; E-mail: spouncey@acesag.auburn.edu Topic Tracks Track 1 topics are considered to be of interest to beekeepers = having about 5 years or more of beekeeping experience. Track 2 topics are considered to be of interest to beekeepers = having less than 5 years of experience or having no experience at all. = However, participants may go to any session that they wish regardless = of experience. =20 Program 8:00 - 8:45 a.m. Registration 8:45 - 9:00 Welcome and Opening Remarks =20 9:00 -10:00 Keynote: The Small Hive Beetle in Alabama -- = Should We Worry - Jim Tew 10:00 -10:30 Controlling Varroa -- What's Old and What's = New - Dave Heilman 10:30 -10:45 Break 10:45 -11:30 American Foulbrood -- A Familiar Enemy - John = Grafton 11:30 -12:00 New Bee Equipment Ideas -- What's Good & = What's Bad - Dave Heilman 12:00 -1:00 p.m. Lunch (On Your Own) - (Open Hive Demonstration = During Lunch*) 1:00 -2:00 Track 1 Getting Started in Beekeeping - = Bobby Fanning Track 2 Commercial Pollination - It's Not = Boring Any More - Jim Tew 2:00 -3:00 Track 1 Bee Biology and Behavior (Outdoor = Demonstration*) - John Grafton Track 2 Developing a Local Market for Your = Honey Crop - Dwight Tew 3:00 -3:15 Both Tracks: The Present State of Alabama = Beekeeping - Jim Tew 3:15 Door Prizes, Evaluations, and Goodbye *Outdoor demonstrations are weather dependent. If weather prohibits, = discussions will proceed indoors with visual aids rather than live bees. = Bring your personal protective equipment for outdoor demonstrations. Dr. James E. Tew State Specialist, Beekeeping Department of Entomology The Ohio State University Wooster, OH 44691 (330)263-3684 Tew.1@osu.edu http://www2.oardc.ohio-state.edu/agnic/bee/ http://www2.oardc.ohio-state.edu/beelab/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 11:21:26 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: FGMO Update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A couple of other questions. Were there only two controls, or are the hives that died all controls? The controls got no treatment, at least that is my guess. Or did they? What other preventative measures were used, if any? When was the sampling taken? We know that mite drop occurs with the introduction of FGMO, so you will get reduced mite count after an application. If the others that died were not controls, then you have 20% mortality in the group with the controls- both died- and 24% mortality in the other apiary with no controls. It is a little difficult to see just what is going on with the data presented, other than FGMO works 75% of the time. Bill T ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 19:34:58 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Chris Ignasiak <75442.1721@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: NOVA - "Tales from the Hive" My husband is a newspaper editor and received the following press release from our local PBS station. I thought other beekeepers would be interested. What's the buzz? NOVA explores one of nature's most fascination creatures on "Tales from the Hive", airing Tuesday, January 4 at 9 p.m. on WVIZ/PBS. Filmed in stunning micro-detail, as if by a bee with a Betacam, the program covers key moments in the life of a honey bee hive. The "Bee-cam" footage is some of the most extraordinary nature photography ever made, supplying intimate glimpses of bees on the wing and at home. Honey bees are the ultimate intelligent insects, with a sophisticated system for communicating the location of food plus a selfless instinct for confronting danger and sharing resources. The press release continues for another page with details of the program. Local times may be different throughout the country but it sounds like a great program and worth taping. Chris Ignasiak Avon, Ohio ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 18:07:12 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Nancy D Subject: 2000 Beekeeping Class in AR Comments: To: TO SEND MESSAGE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Fayetteville, Ar classes begin January 27, 2000. Continues every Thurs. evening from 6pm to 9pm for 4 sessions. Instructor: Ed Levi, State Apiary Inspector. Cost will be $15.00 per participant and the fee will cover the cost of the text book. The classes will be at the Washington Co Cooperative Extension Office in Fayetteville. For further information you can call:The Cooperative Extension at 501-444-1755 or the Apiary office at 501-225-1598. You can also call the NWA Beekeeper's Association President, Horace Bryant at 501-756-2909 or Nancy Dalrymple 501-267-6348. Hope to see ya there!! Anyone that is interested in bees is more than welcome to join us. Nancy Dalrymple rymple@pgtc.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 09:15:55 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Borst Subject: Re: Apistan Lifespan In-Reply-To: <199912170500.AAA10457@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 12:00 AM 12/17/99 -0500, you wrote: >Their reasoning was that because the original packaging was not sealed in an >airtight package the fluvinate dried up and lost effectiveness. The >strips were one year old at >the time of placement in the hive and had been stored in their original >package, out of sunlight. I don't think that this is borne out by the experience of the majority. I think you may have fluvalinate resistant mites. I suggest you try an alternative treatment. DON'T overlap chemicals, however. Studies have shown that fluvalinate is present in the combs for weeks after using the strips. I would remove all the brood and freeze it. Then you can give the combs back and the bees will clean them out. Use a different chemical in January or February. Try having your hives build some drone comb. By giving a frame with most of the comb cut out, you can get nice drone combs built in the spring. Remove these when the drone brood is capped and freeze it. If your hives are close together, you will want to treat them all the same because if there are resistant mites around, they will piggyback on drifting bees and soon all your hives will have them. PB ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 22:53:28 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: christopher.slade@ZBEE.COM Organization: ZbeeNet computer networking for beekeepers Subject: Treatments for bee diseases CHRS: IBMPC 2 CODEPAGE: 850 MSGID: 240:244/186 7ed41e93 REPLY: 240:44/0 6045a95b PID: FDAPX/w 1.13 UnReg Peter Borst asks how Europeans kill diseased colonies of bees. In the case of AFB the hive is closed in the evening after flying has ceased and petrol is poured through the feed hole in the crown board. This kills the bees rapidly and humanely and also probably assists the subsequent funeral pyre. I have killed a colony of dangerously psychopathic bees by spraying each comb of bees with very dilute detergent washing up liquid using a mist sprayer. Chris Slade, UK --- * Origin: Beenet Point (240:244/186) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 11:49:04 -0500 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Organization: ACB Dept., Univ of Michigan Subject: Re: Treatments for bee diseases MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit christopher.slade@ZBEE.COM wrote: > Peter Borst asks how Europeans kill diseased colonies of bees. In the case of > AFB the hive is closed in the evening after flying has ceased and petrol is > poured through the feed hole in the crown board. This kills the bees rapidly > and humanely and also probably assists the subsequent funeral pyre. I have > killed a colony of dangerously psychopathic bees by spraying each comb of bees > with very dilute detergent washing up liquid using a mist sprayer. I have seen bees treated with petrol (gasoline), and it is not very nice. Yes the outer bees are killed, but they rapidly cluster, and the inner ones die very slowly. They also are extremely irritable, and if the cluster is opened, much stinging will occur. Yes, I agree that the funeral pyre will be well fueled, but again - petrol (gasoline) is extremely dangerous to ignite, and serious burns may result. I agree that the method of spraying with a detergent solution does a quick and much more humane job than the former. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 12:39:37 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Dr. Malcom (Tom) Sanford" Organization: Dept of Entomology/Nematology, U. of Florida Subject: Colloidal Silver Comments: To: "aapa-l: American Association of Professional Apiculturist" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I have been asked about feeding colloidal silver to honey bees in water. It appears to have worked in humans, chickens, dogs, etc...why not insects? Tom Sanford -- =========================================================================== Dr. Malcolm (Tom) Sanford, Extension Apiculturist, University of Florida Bldg. 970, P.O. Box 110620, Gainesville, FL 32611-0620 Ph. 352/392-1801 ext. 143 Fax 352/392-0190 E-mail: mts@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Publisher of the APIS newsletter: http://www.ifas.ufl.edu/~mts/apishtm/apis.htm To electronically subscribe, send the following to listserv@lists.ufl.edu: subscribe Apis-L First Name Last Name ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Author of "Beekeeping in the Digital Age" http://bee.airoot.com/beeculture/digital/ =========================================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 20:29:27 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ken Hoare Subject: Re: Treatments for bee diseases MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ted Fischer writes "I have seen bees treated with petrol (gasoline), and = it is not very nice. Yes the outer bees are killed, but they rapidly = cluster, and the inner ones die very slowly. They also are extremely = irritable, and if the cluster is opened, much stinging will occur. Yes, = I agree that the funeral pyre will be well fuelled, but again - petrol (gasoline) is extremely dangerous to ignite, and serious = burns may result." The first part is not my experience - the experience of destroying = nearly 50 colonies infested with American Foul Brood during my last year = carrying out disease inspections. I might add that 99% of these were = owned by one beekeeper so I know who is the major spreader of this = disease. As for the method of controlling this disease, I firmly believe that for = once us Brits have got it right. That might provoke a comment or two = from the multiple hive American beekeeper, those that have hundreds, = even thousands of hives. Not earning my living from bees I don't know if = I would feel the same if I was in their shoes. But I do know that if I = ever moved to any part of the world where terramycin was the method of = control, with my 20 colonies I would say, "No thanks" and grab for the = petrol can. And I destroyed many more in previous years, about a half pint of petrol = (never measured it) poured in through a feed hole and within seconds, = yes literally seconds, the whole colony is destroyed and can be = dismantled ready for the fire. But from there onwards I agree with Ted, it's not a very nice job and I = can still hear that terrific roar as the petrol is poured in. And = somehow, even with the petrol can sealed, they seemed to sense those = vapours and you need to work fast. The dangers of petrol I totally agree = with having taken the cap off the can whilst at least 15 feet from the = fire and the lot exploded and started spewing flames. I suppose I done = the natural thing and threw the can, that was a big mistake. A strand of = flaming petrol poured from it. But I was lucky and unscathed (and cannot blame the balding head on this = event). The accident was reported to those that sit in plush leather = chairs and suggested we use carbon tetracycline (think that is the = correct name, was used for dry cleaning and in some fire extinguishers) = to do the job. Apparently this is very carcinogenic, but maybe petrol is = also a lot cheaper. I also have to disagree with my countryman Chris when he states, "killed = a colony of dangerously psychopathic bees by spraying each comb of bees = with very dilute detergent washing up liquid using a mist sprayer." I = know that Chris lives in a very rural part of the UK, so do I, but there = are residents within easy flying distance of all my hives. I try and = consider their safety, very few households have a Sherriffs outfit = tucked away in the linen cupboard. No a half a pint of petrol is = generally safer for both beekeeper and non-beekeeper - and hell to the = damage caused to the combs. May I use this opportunity to promote www.ludlow-beekeepers.co.uk I know = some of the pages are pretty slow in loading, old in the tooth but just = a boy when it comes to building web pages. Save yourself time and go = straight to the Talking Point - Pollination pages. There are photographs = of pollen there that I find more beautiful than anything I could see in = our National or Tate Galleries. But I warn you, I cannot release copies = (unless you are willing to pay), you might be trying to make a living = from bees, this friend is doing the same with microscopy. I'm sorry that Ken is in an argumentative mood this evening. Ken Hoare, now ludlowbe@freenetname.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 18:47:37 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: SAFB IS A NEW AND CONTAGIOUS DISEASE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Multiple antibiotic resistant Tuberculosis is still called TB. It may be a new strain but it is not a new species. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 18:47:46 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re Nosema MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Murray is right to emphasise that Nosema is very much stress related. The main limb of any treatment must be to identify and remove the causes of stress. If the beekeeper through his practices is the cause of the stress and for reasons of his own finds this unavoidable then I agree that the use of Fumidil is probably the best compromise. It has been used for so many years now that I wonder why resistance has not arisen. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 17:13:51 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Al Subject: Re: Apistan Lifespan In-Reply-To: <199912171510.KAA20930@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > >Their reasoning was that because the original packaging was not sealed in an > >airtight package the fluvinate dried up and lost effectiveness. > I don't think that this is borne out by the experience of the majority. I > think you may have fluvalinate resistant mites. I wonder if a simple experiment would work to test the mites for resistance. Take a strip and "bend" it around the inside of a large mason jar so that if forms a ring around the inside of the jar. Punch a few holes in the lid for air (ever wonder what a entrance feeder could be good for? :) Put in a little candy for food and then scoop up some bees in the same manner you would for an ether roll. Instead of ether just put the lid on and place the jar in a cool, dark place. 24-48(?) hours later release the bees back to the hive and see how many dead mites are left in the jar. Maybe before you release the bees a visual inspection for attached mites? Any thoughts? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 23:47:28 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Scott Moser Subject: Beginning Beekeeping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings all, I would also like to announce that there will be a beginning beekeeping class offered in the St. Louis, Missouri area. The Jefferson County Beekeepers Association, in cooperation with Jefferson College, will be offering a 5 week, Adult Education class entitled Beginning Beekeeping. The course will meet each Tuesday, Feb 15, 22, 29, and March 7 &14, from 6:30 - 8:30 pm, at the Hillsboro, Missouri Campus. The campus is located on Highway 21 in Hillsboro, approximately 40 miles southwest of St. Louis. Cost of the class is $45.00, which includes textbook. In addition, each participant receives Adult Education credit, plus one years membership in the Jefferson County Beekeepers Association. For info, call (636) 797-3000 or (636) 789-3000. Class size is limited. Hope to see you there! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 08:32:32 -0000 Reply-To: Ruary Rudd Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ruary Rudd Organization: Westgate, waterville Subject: Re: Apistan Lifespan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Borst Sent: 17 December 1999 14:15 Subject: Re: Apistan Lifespan > >Their reasoning was that because the original packaging was not sealed in an > >airtight package the fluvinate dried up and lost effectiveness. The > >strips were one year old at > >the time of placement in the hive and had been stored in their original > >package, out of sunlight. > > I don't think that this is borne out by the experience of the majority. I > think you may have fluvalinate resistant mites. > As the comment came from the manufacturers, then I think it has to be accepted. The question now is what is the shelf life of Apistan strips kept out of sunlight in the original packaging? Secondly what is the shelf life when kept in hermetically sealed conditions? Ruary Rudd rrudd@eircom.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 08:44:02 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Murray McGregor Subject: Re: Apistan Lifespan In-Reply-To: <199912180316.WAA10319@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Why not just test this by using a set of completely fresh strips in the hive? Put in a sticky insert on the floor and see how many mites you kill. (Of course, you could be in a northern latitude and in the grip of winter, thus it is of no use at all to test now (other than by the suggested jar method) and you must wait until the weather starts to open up again in spring, but before large amounts of brood are present) Whilst the risk of resistant mites should not be underestimated, as it is significant and spreading, my understanding of the situation is that a very high proportion of those resistant mite reported by beekeepers turn out not to be so when properly tested under the correct conditions. Many of the cases turn out to be because of deficiencies in how, or when, the treatment was applied (including incorrect storage of strips). I would be wary of jumping to a conclusion either way until such time as you have tried fresh strips under good conditions Reading between the lines a bit I wondered if you had bought a full pack of Apistan, opened it, and used some of the strips the previous year. Then you put the pack back on the shelf unsealed to keep the rest for this year. If this is indeed the case then whoever told you about the strips having lost there effectiveness is probably correct as the fluvalinate will largely have evaporated off during the period of incorrect storage. If. however, they were perfectly sealed up, then you could have either resistant mites, or (more likely in my opinion) a re-infestation problem. As this appears to have been the colony you both treated first, and removed treatment first, still in the active season, then I would hazard a guess at re-infestation from a collapsing colony or colonies within a reasonably short distance from your hives. In some experiments re-infestation has been shown to occur at an alarming speed (I have heard reports of 2000 mites entering a colony in a single day) during the peak period for collapsing (possibly just about the time you took the strips out of the colony). Your other colonies would still be protected as they had full treatment still in progress. The final fall back is the resistant mite scenario. To ascertain if you have this trouble we come back to the treatment with fresh strips. Even better would be to test them with flumethrin (Bayvarol or similar) rather than fluvalinate. True resistance confers cross resistance to both pyrethroids, so if nice fresh flumethrin also fails to kill them, when applied at the correct time, then your resistant mite problem will probably be confirmed. As mere e-mail correspondents none of us really seem to have enough information to jump to any conclusions about your situation. Thus it is best that you go through a process of elimination to find out what has happened. My GUESS from the information provided is that your most likely problem is duff strips, and next best bet is re-infestation, and finally resistant mites. Seek advice from your beekeeping authorities locally, and if you don't trust them, try a local beekeeper whose knowledge and expertise you have faith in. Good luck, Murray -- Murray McGregor ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 11:10:01 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Borst Subject: Killing bees with mites Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Hi! Thanks for all the comments in response to my query about killing bees. I have used gasoline (petrol) many times and I think it is fast and safe, if a small quantity is used. However, in an over regulated country like ours, you are supposed to use approved pesticides and there aren't any approved for beekeepers to use (that I know of). Most chemicals require a licensed pesticide applicator. In any case, what I was looking for (I guess this was unclear) was a way of killing mite-infested colonies. In other words, if one decides not to treat for mites using coumaphos or whatever, and wishes to halt the spread of mites, killing the colony is a possible choice. Unfortunately, the usual methods ruin the honey, and in the case of gasoline, presuppose the burning of the equipment. With mites, there is no reason not to extract out the honey and reuse the hive. Normally, when a colony is "no good" one could just dump it out on the ground and take away the equipment. Of course, with mites, this would result in driving the mites into neighboring colonies. I suppose one could vacuum the bees out of the hive and then do away with them in soapy water... PB ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 11:11:18 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: darn@FREENET.EDMONTON.AB.CA Subject: Re: Killing bees with mites In-Reply-To: <199912181723.MAA23029@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII The method used in Alberta for killing colonies ( In the past when package bees were bought in the spring and killed in the fall) was to put a tablespoon of calcium cyanide on a piece of paper, insert the paper into the lower entrance and close up the hive. The calcium cyanide reacts with the water vapour in the air to form hydrogen cyanide gas and lime. There was essentially no contamination of the hive equipment. Cyanide is quite dangerous, but so is gasoline. Best regards, Donald Aitken Edmonton Alberta Canada ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 14:04:47 -0800 Reply-To: JamesCBach Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: JamesCBach Subject: Killing bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I use soapy water to kill bees in weak, mite infested colonies, or AFB diseased hives. I use either a five gallon bucket or a heavy plastic garbage bag containing warm soapy water. The bucket of soapy water is set in the apiary, the garbage bag with soapy water is set on the ground with one side up against a hive. One side of the mouth of the sack is laid on the cover of the hive and held in place with two bricks or rocks. I use two or three gallons of soapy water depending on how many colonies (frames of bees) I will be killing. Take the hive apart at night or on a rainy day when the bees aren't flying. Shake each comb of bees into the water by grasping one end of the frame. Hold open the sack with one hand and shake the bees in. The process is faster if you have a buddy along to assist, especially if you have several hives to shake. Destroy combs containing AFB symptoms, scrape the other frames, boxes, bottom and top boards thoroughly with a sharp hive tool. Mark the hive in some manner so that you know it has had AFB. Shake a large swarm (or several small ones) into the hive next spring and pour medicated syrup over the bees at least twice two or three days apart, and put some in a feeder. If the state inspector is the person who found the AFB problem you will be required to follow the procedure specified by the inspector within the specified time period. It may be different than the method I have given above. James C. Bach jcbach@yvn.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 14:25:03 PST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GREGOIRE@ENDOR.COM Subject: Used Christmas trees/ Hive ventilation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hello Gang, I shut off my electric fence for the winter this week. The cold and wind have kept the weather winter like enough to make me think that the bears have finally called it quits for the rest of the season. Whew!! My hives are wrapped in open cell foam backed plastic with air holes cut to the ajoining holes in the hive bodies for ventilation. The mouse guards are on too. The wind is "Ah-Blowin a livin gale out theyah!" as we say in New England. I usually place a sheet of tar paper in front of the entrances to block a strong blast of wind. The paper forms a lean to at the entrance and does not completely block it shut. This also allows for the bees to enter and egress. This year I tried something new. I cut some branches from Chirstmas trees that border our land and placed them in front of each hive entrance instead of using the tar paper. It took from three to five branches depending on how thick they were. The bees can still come and go, the sun shines through the branches, and the force of the wind is broken from having a direct access to the entrance. I figure that just after the first of the year there will be lots of raw material around anywhere in the country for wind breaks.And as a bonus, I completely covered a nuc igloo style with the entrance side branches slightly over hanging box. The branches in the front are arranged so the sun shines right on the box but the branches protect the entrance from the wind. Merry Christmas to all , Ernie Gregoire "Beekeeper," definition= partially brave, partially excentric Grist Mill Apiary Canaan, NH. USA ------------------------------------- 12/17/99 14:25:03 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 17:28:22 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Al Subject: Re: Killing bees with mites In-Reply-To: <199912181726.MAA23048@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > In any case, what I was looking for (I guess this was > unclear) was a way of killing mite-infested colonies. In other words, > if one decides not to treat for mites using coumaphos or whatever, > and wishes to halt the spread of mites, killing the colony is a > possible choice. Unfortunately, the usual methods ruin the > honey, and in the case of gasoline, presuppose the burning of the > equipment. With mites, there is no reason not to extract out the > honey and reuse the hive. > Close the entrance tight, place a large piece of dry ice under the cover and then put a large plastic bag over the hive for a few minutes. Once things get quiet get the hive open because the dying bees are going to release a lot of water. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 10:29:50 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Borst Subject: Re: Apistan resistance In-Reply-To: <199912190502.AAA06897@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Regarding the shelf life of Apistan, many beekeepers have reused the strips after they have hung in the hive and have found them still working. I want to emphasize that I DO NOT RECOMMEND this, but state it only to underscore the concept that one year old strips stored wrapped up in the dark are very unlikely to be stale. The fluvalinate is not particularly volatile; otherwise it would evaporate rapidly in the warm hive and would not remain active for the six weeks that is needed to destroy the mites in a colony. On the other hand, since the correspondent was writing from California and had captured swarms as a means of obtaining bees, I felt the warning about resistant mites was justified. California, due to its large concentration of migratory beekeepers, as well as amateurs, has always had more than its share of bee disease. I lived in San Diego for decades and saw many abandoned apiaries rife with AFB. Many commercial beekeepers told me that they simply kept Terramycin in the hives year-round. I don't doubt that many of them do the same with Apistan, despite the admonitions. Finally, we must not ever get into the habit of thinking any one treatment is going to always work. Try as many different ones as possible. In the recent "Gleanings," Prof. Calderone notes that colonies that are split in the spring tend to wind up with lower concentrations of mites. It may be worthwhile to develop a management technique that employs larger numbers of medium strength colonies rather than fewer very strong ones, even if one is raising bees for honey. If one is pollinating for a fee, this is probably the approach one is already using. Peter Borst plb6@cornell.edu http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/plb6/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 16:17:29 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Carol Malcolm Subject: Virgin Island beekeeper? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Please contact me off list; I have a request for help from the Virgin Islands. Thanks in advance Carol Carol K. Malcolm dewsnap@worldnet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 14:21:35 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ken Hoare Subject: Enviromentally friendly disease control MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I wonder why James Bach, who I know and hold in great respect as a beekeeper, never mentions using the gas torch on AFB infected equipment. The UK practice is to torch the interior surfaces of the boxes paying particular attention to corners and along the frame runners, castellated spacers or whatever is used. I know it cannot be guaranteed 100% to destroy spores, neither can the medications now that the disease has become resistant. No need to burn the woodwork, a dark coffee colour is sufficient. I know James has suggested, "destroy combs containing AFB symptoms", but with frames costing about 50 pence (is that 80 cents) locally you would not catch me, "scraping infected frames clean" - and what is 'clean'? As James knows the practice in the UK is that AFB infected colonies MUST be destroyed, whereas EFB colonies can be treated if the National Bee Unit decide the level of infection (and other criteria) is low, then with the permission of the owner they can be medicated (by an authorised officer). Fortunately, personally I have never experienced either of the diseases but they would NEVER get my permission to apply medications - DESTROY BEES AND BURN EQUIPMENT THAT CANNOT BE STERILISED WITH THE GAS TORCH - and in the UK sit back and await Bee Disease Insurance to give very generous compensation (that is unless the UK beekeeper has been so stingy not to pay his dues - for each hive less than the cost of one of those frames). And all of this is available to the commercial beekeeper - just that the subscriptions are a little higher. No us Brits are thinking along the right lines regarding disease control (off to unfold the Union Jack). Ken Hoare in Shropshire where that 'wet stuff' has changed to 'white stuff'. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 14:08:05 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Killing bees with mites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I put a couple spoonfulls of sufur in the smoker and fill the hive with the fumes of burning sulfur and then tape over the opening. In a few hours all is quiet. Grim work no matter how it is done. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 13:02:32 -0800 Reply-To: JamesCBach Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: JamesCBach Subject: AFB disease control MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ken Hoare asks why I don't mention using a gas torch on AFB infected equipment. Here is my answer. Years ago (1981) Dr. Gochnaur told me that 99.5 percent of the AFB spores are in the cells of AFB residue, and that while spores may be found in propolis, and honey in the brood nest (depending on whether there is honey) there are probably too few to break down a colony to further symptoms. He mentioned, and I've seen it in the literature, that it takes about 50,000 spores to break a colony down to visual symptoms (obviously depending on the hygienic behavior of the bees). His ideas suggested to me that removing the frames with infected comb from the hive and scraping all other hive parts may sufficiently reduce the spore level in the hive below the economic threshold. In fact, I have picked up a lot of AFB hives over the years and removed the disease as I suggest and managed the hives for three years afterward without any prophylactic treatments and never seen the hives break down. As a state inspector I must ask myself if it is good public policy and enforcement practice to destroy $150.00 worth of bees and equipment for a few cells of AFB, or even a few frames with infected combs, if abatement can be accomplished in an effective manner and at lower cost. In law, requiring the burning of an infected hive is called a "taking" by government and there have been several comparable cases in law enforcement that raise a serious question whether states can reasonably require burning of a hive for a few cells of AFB. We deliberately removed certain language from our state statute to address this issue. Our goal is to consult with industry and define a more economic and practical approach to disease abatement. Of course if the beekeeper wants to burn the whole hive for one cell of AFB, that is their choice and loss. In the case of 40 year old equipment, burning may be cost effective. I don't try to save the frame containing the infected comb. It is not cost effective from a labor point of view. My suggestion of scraping the frames clean was intended to mean removing burr and bridge comb from the frame surfaces, and the box with a sharp hive tool. My personal opinion is that while beekeepers in the UK seem to remain satisfied with the level of government activity in controlling AFB in their hives, that much government power doesn't suit me. I am of the mind that, here in the US, it is the beekeeper's responsibility to abate disease and pests in their hives, for economic reasons and also to protect the interest of other beekeepers in the industry. Beekeeper's have granted authority to the states in the US to exercise certain powers in the form of efforts aimed at gaining beekeeper performance of disease abatement in the interest of the industry (i.e. state apiary statutes). I am also of the opinion that we in government should change our approach to enforcement, and disease abatement, based on the latest scientific data, legal cases and opinions, and the economic impact of our action on the industry. Having burned hives for 80 years or so does not necessarily justify continuing to do so. I have burned new five story hives for one cell of AFB because of the letter of the law. What a waste! What an unnecessary negative economic impact on a beginning beekeeper who only made the mistake of not knowing enough to recognize the disease before the inspector appeared in the apiary! That's my view. Thinking that new approaches to historic actions should be explored continuously. "Antiquity is not always authority, but may just be the old age of error," Charles Wesley. James C. Bach jcbach@yvn.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 22:16:22 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: christopher.slade@ZBEE.COM Organization: ZbeeNet computer networking for beekeepers Subject: Enviromentally friendly disease control CHRS: IBMPC 2 CODEPAGE: 850 MSGID: 240:244/186 7f739370 REPLY: 240:44/0 3d818ef9 PID: FDAPX/w 1.13 UnReg(32) Following on from what Ken has said, I think that the bee disease insurance is the key to effective AFB control. The insurance company is a non profit making company set up and run by beekeepers who are unsalaried. It means that beekeepers have no great financial incentive to break the (UK) law and conceal or treat American foul brood. We all know that antibiotic treatment can only prolong any outbreak of AFB and increase the chances of it spreading. Burning and compensation nips it in the bud. The effectiveness of this policy is demonstrated by the fact that the insurance premiums are so low - no, it is not subsidised. I am relieved to learn that Ken has not personally suffered from AFB: how about his bees? Chris Slade --- * Origin: Beenet Point (240:244/186) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 20:45:30 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Martin Braunstein Subject: SAFB of just AFB..? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This discussion about SAFB caught me in the heaviest time of our queen and package bee season here in Central Argentina. I am sorry but I couldn't give my 2 cents before. The whole thing Mr. Dick described in his original message ignores and omits many important facts. I can understand it, perhaps Mr. Dick has never been to Argentina nor he has many sources of information. Conversely I have had the chance of working many years in the USA for commercial outfits (in California and Georgia) and have seen how AFB is treated and make a fair comparison with what is done here in Argentina. I could tell (but I won't do it in this list) the names of important American beekeepers who make a regular use of illegal drugs for the prevention and treatment of AFB. I am speaking of Sulphatiazole Sodium and Tylosin. In the first place, before starting a witchhunting, you should assess whether the first resistant strain wasn't created somewhere in North America, then spread and perhaps reintroduced into your territory. AFB was introduced and detected in Argentina during 1989. I said "introduced" because in fact AFB was not present in Argentina before 1989. You can check this assertion with any of our animal health authorities. Before 1989, AFB was something we only read about in bee journals and bee books. AFB was introduced in the central part of Buenos Aires province in a huge shipment (more than one thousand) of US queen bees (North American - not South American certainly). It is likely the candy of those queen cages was not made neither with HFCS nor with irradiated honey. It was a terrible mistake and an accident. I can't think of any beekeeper Canadian, American or whoever who deliberately makes queen cage candy with infected honey. Terramycin mixed with powdered sugar has been used for several years to treat and prevent EFB in Argentina before AFB was detected. With the arrival of AFB a few beekeepers (included myself) tried patties made up of Margarine and terramycin but something in the margarine made the bees refuse the patties so we gave up with them. Needless to say, Crisco is not available in Argentina. What I mean is that sublethal dosis were never used in Argentina as it was the case in the US with some patties. AFB was first introduced in Argentina in 1989 but I can't see how it became resistant so fast... If our AFB is indeed resistant -which I doubt- I am led to believe it was already a resistant strain when it reached our country. The researcher that seemingly demonstrated that we have a "resistant strain" has only done IN VITRO experiments. Not a single FIELD trial was made to corroborate her findings. At the same time many other researchers found strong evidence that there was not any AFB resistance to Terramycin in Argentina. It is a pity those researchers didn't have the same publicity as the one who said the opposite. When l told many large Argentine beekeepers of this absurd discussion about AFB or SAFB the only thing we could do was to laugh and also wonder whether Mr. Dick has any other kind of problem with Argentine honey that prompts him to discredit our fine and high quality honey. Mr. Dick: if you wish to impose a trade barrier or promote a quota system for our honey I won't stop you. But please, I urge you not to confuss the mind of people with pseudoscientific and misleading information. Mr. Dick: we do have varroa mite resistance to fluvalinate and we don't mind to admit it. If we had AFB resistance to Terramycin we wouldn't care to admit it either. Before blaming anybody I suggest you to be better informed. It is quite obvious Argentina has not become one of the largest honey exporting countries with a simultaneous spread of AFB resistant to Terramycin. Long before producing so much honey we would have lost most of our hives. Do you understand it? Martin Braunstein Breeder & Exporter of Queen Bees Criador y Exportador de Abejas Reinas Malka Cabaņa Apicola e-mail: malka@webnet.com.ar http://www.apiservices.com/malka/ Phone (54+11)4446-8350 Fax (54+221)421-4318 - ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 08:11:09 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: AFB disease control MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit JamesCBach wrote: > > Ken Hoare asks why I don't mention using a gas torch on AFB infected > equipment. Here is my answer. > > Years ago (1981) Dr. Gochnaur told me that 99.5 percent of the AFB spores > are in the cells of AFB residue, and that while spores may be found in > propolis, and honey in the brood nest (depending on whether there is honey) > there are probably too few to break down a colony to further symptoms. He > mentioned, and I've seen it in the literature, that it takes about 50,000 > spores to break a colony down to visual symptoms (obviously depending on the > hygienic behavior of the bees). According to ABC and XYZ of bee culture, 2500 Million! spores of AFB are in one dead pupa. .5% of that leaves 12.5 million spores outside the cell to infect the bees or 2500 times the number needed to break down the colony- from one dead pupa. Obviously there are other things at work here than just numbers. If we have exceptional beekeepers who manage properly, much of what Jim says is probably workable. My experience has been with beekeepers who let the disease progress to the point it spreads to the exceptional beekeepers hives, not once but many times and over several years as the bad one reuses equipment. With burning, the problem is eliminated in more ways than just the disease. Generally the bad beekeeper eventually gives up. It can wear the good one down too. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 05:24:24 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Karl Dehning Subject: evaporating nectar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi bee liners We recently have experienced very hot weather in Cape Town and the bees have not produced to my expectation. I have heard the theory that the nectar evaporates from the blossoms before the bees can get to gather it. Has anyone info regarding the the effect of hot weather on honey production. Also the bees were not very protective when we reaped the golden rewards. Usually we have to remain in our veils untill about 200 meters away. That day we stripped a mere 5 or so meters away. Comments??? Kind Regards Karl Dehning __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 09:51:46 -0500 Reply-To: mpalmer@together.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Palmer Organization: French Hill Apiaries Subject: Re: Treatments for bee diseases MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ken Hoare wrote: > > As for the method of controlling this disease, I firmly believe that for = > once us Brits have got it right. That might provoke a comment or two = > from the multiple hive American beekeeper, those that have hundreds, = > even thousands of hives. Not earning my living from bees I don't know if = > I would feel the same if I was in their shoes. But I do know that if I = > ever moved to any part of the world where terramycin was the method of = > control, with my 20 colonies I would say, "No thanks" and grab for the = > petrol can. > As one of those Multiple Hive Americans, let me make a comment. I have > a yard on the US/Canadian border(Vermont/Quebec). We almost never see any > AFB(a couple cases in 20 years). I use Terramycin dust in the spring. I ran > out of dust, and didn't medicate this yard. Oh well I thought, there's no > AFB around anyway. There aren't any other beekeepers located nearby. I don't > have AFB in my equipment. Guess what. My US bees snuck across the > international border, and brought home a good dose of foulbrood(like the > boys sneaking up to the strip clubs). I burned everything that showed the > disease, even though the inspector told me just to medicate the hell out of > 'em. With failing inspection programs here in the states(maybe in Canada > too, eh?), I see no way around my spring medication program. > > > The accident was reported to those that sit in plush leather = > chairs and suggested we use carbon tetracycline (think that is the = > correct name, was used for dry cleaning and in some fire extinguishers) = > to do the job. > The chemical is carbontetrachloride - C-Cl4 > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 12:05:17 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard Yarnell Subject: Re: Apistan Lifespan Comments: To: Ruary Rudd In-Reply-To: <199912181255.HAA19115@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Regarding storage: plastic film of all kinds will pass gas at some rate. For example, "Storage Bags" are far more permeable than "Freezer Bags." Even the rigid plastic containers, including food grade 4 and 5 gallon pails you can now buy, will exchange some gas. For that reason, we put things we want to store long term, in glass jars. It's worth the investment in gallon jars with screw type lids. We paint the outside of those we use for material which degrades in light. Why glass instead of cans? Cans rust, rarely seal as well as glass jars, and can be thoroughly cleaned and reused for something else. On Sat, 18 Dec 1999, Ruary Rudd wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Peter Borst > Sent: 17 December 1999 14:15 > Subject: Re: Apistan Lifespan > > >Their reasoning was that because the original packaging was not sealed in > > >an airtight package the fluvinate dried up and lost effectiveness. --------------- Richard Yarnell, SHAMBLES WORKSHOPS | No gimmick we try, no "scientific" Beavercreek, OR. Makers of fine | fix we attempt, will save our planet Wooden Canoes, The Stack(R) urban | until we reduce the population. Let's composter, fly tying benches | leave our kids a decent place to live. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 10:47:33 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Leen and Maria van den Berg Subject: Re: evaporating nectar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Karl Dehning wrote : > Hi bee liners > > We recently have experienced very hot weather in Cape > Town and the bees have not produced to my expectation. > I have heard the theory that the nectar evaporates > from the blossoms before the bees can get to gather > it. > > Has anyone info regarding the the effect of hot > weather on honey production. You don"t write whether it was dry as well. Last summer was very dry here in the Peace River Area in Alberta, Canada. We had bees in a beautiful field of clover that was still in full bloom when we supered for the third time, but not much honey to pull when we came to take those supers off. Leen and Maria van den Berg ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 14:30:11 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: evaporating nectar Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Karl Dehning wrote: >We recently have experienced very hot weather in Cape >Town and the bees have not produced to my expectation. >I have heard the theory that the nectar evaporates >from the blossoms before the bees can get to gather >it. Yes, that can happen --- particularly if warm weather occurs during a drought. We normally have a manzanita flow in January here. In drought years, though, the blossoms may actually dry up after yielding no nectar. A tap of a blossom cluster into the palm of a hand reveals the presence or absence of nectar. We are now approaching the halfway mark in our rainy season, with just over an inch of rain so far. If this continues, we can expect no manzanita flow in this area. Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 963-8508 (home phone) 967 Garcia Road (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 **************************************************************************** ******* * * "The history of physics is the history of giving up cherished ideas." * * Andrew Strominger, Harvard physicist (1999) * **************************************************************************** ******* ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 12:34:07 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Smart, Billy Y" Subject: Re: Treatments for bee diseases MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > Ted Fischer writes "I have seen bees treated with petrol (gasoline), and = > > - petrol (gasoline) is extremely dangerous to ignite, and serious = > burns may > result." > Has anyone considered using diesel oil instead of gasoline(petrol)? Diesel doesn't evaporate as rapidly as gasoline and as a result doesn't flash when ignited. I use it when burning brush on my farm for this reason. Diesel also contains a lot more energy, ounce-for-ounce, than does gasoline and is better for getting fires started on wet wood. Billy Smart ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 22:28:08 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ken Hoare Subject: AFB disease control MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gentlemen Sorry to come back to AFB, its just that I have a particular interest in bee diseases (and queen rearing, swarm control, gentle bees etc etc. Honey, horrible sticky stuff, will leave that to you) and think I am a better beekeeper than chemist - many have corrected me regarding the chemical that was used for dry cleaning purposes, "The chemical is carbontetrachloride - C-Cl4", copied from Michael Palmer's mail so you can now blame him if it is wrong. Thank you Michael and all. First a promotion. American Foul Brood was found locally at the end of the 1999 season, and the colonies were destroyed. The beekeeper is a member of Ludlow & District Beekeepers' Association of which I am Secretary. I have pushed hard to ensure that the business side of our Annual General Meeting on 5 February 2000 will quickly be dispensed with, and we will then receive an illustrated talk by Mr Robin Hall, the Regional Bee Inspector, on Foul Brood Recognition. HOPEFULLY sealed samples will be available to inspect. ANY beekeeper within easy travelling distance of Shropshire should not miss the opportunity to attend this presentation, to be able to observe the signs and symptoms as they appear in the comb is such a valuable tool when working one's own colonies. Its free admission (raffle pays for the hall hire) and anyone wanting further details can contact me at ludlowbe@freenetname.co.uk Earlier this morning I downloaded messages from James Bach and Martin Braunstein which appear to be in opposition to each other. James suggests that scraping frames clean is probably sufficient to remove the 50,000 spores needed to re-infect a colony. I have no doubt that this number of spores could probably be contained on a pinhead. Martin states that he believes AFB was imported into Argentina in the candy used to ship a consignment of queens. A lot of pinheads in the small amount of candy used but it proves to me the insidious nature of this disease, just cannot be treated anything other than treacherous. Consequently I will strictly promote and adhere to the UK doctrine of destroying bees and comb, sterilising what is left with the gas torch and (for my own colonies) avoid the antibiotics like the plague. May I ask James if I would be correct in thinking that my bees already have AFB and EFB, together with many of the other bee diseases, are they all endemic in my hives, just needing something to push them over the edge? That something might be beekeeper induced stress as in the case of Nosema (or in my own case, I believe in the early days of Varroa, that was the agent). Could the mite also be the cause of the breakdown of natural immunity to major bee diseases like AFB and EFB? Ken Hoare in Shropshire (where that white stuff gets deeper, and deeper, and ....) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 18:59:11 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pollinator@AOL.COM Subject: Re: evaporating nectar Comments: cc: honeybush_99@yahoo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 99-12-20 08:51:08 EST, honeybush_99@YAHOO.COM (Karl Dehning) wrote: << We recently have experienced very hot weather in Cape Town and the bees have not produced to my expectation. I have heard the theory that the nectar evaporates from the blossoms before the bees can get to gather it. Has anyone info regarding the the effect of hot weather on honey production. >> Has it also been dry and windy? I would tend to think it more likely that the nectar is not being produced in the first place, though I would allow the possibility of some evaporation. Usually heat and drought go together around here, and I think that stressed plants may show a more or less normal looking bloom without significant nectar production. This past summer here (South Carolina) was extremely hot and dry, with very poor nectar sources. Interestingly the best bees I had were on irrigated canteloupes and squash, crops that I don't consider good nectar producers. These crops produced enough to keep the bees from dwindling during the heat, and some of them actually produced a super of honey. Also the bees become stressed particularly if they don't have shade and lots of close fresh water. They may spend all their energies seeking out water and bringing it back for cooling. <> When it's 100 degrees F, my bees could be worked naked. They just look at you, and say, "Whew, it's hot!" I've heard that's not true of the afrobees, but I think the ones we refer to, originated in central Africa, not south Africa..... Dave Green SC USA The Pollination Home Page http://www.pollinator.com The Pollination Scene http://members.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop on the Internet (honey & beeswax candles) http://members.aol.com/SweetnessL/ Pollinator Y2K calendar: http://members.aol.com/PotGold/calendar.htm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 05:28:45 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Della Cortiglia Paolo Subject: how to kill bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have seen and read on these page, many methods to kill bees affected by deseas. I found that an easy way is to close firmly the entrance door ( in the night or raining day ). >From the syrup hole distributor I put in the hive one half glass of Bleach ( the clorine that your wife use for clothes and home cleaning) and half glass of liquid Ammonia (your wife use for home cleaning, very common here in Europe ). This mixture is harmfull owig to poisoning gasses produced. Once Closed the hole , in few minutes, all bees will die. To kill a bees family is always a failure but necessay it may be, the cheapes and safer way is always welcome. Merry Xmast and happy new millenium to all beekeepers. Paolo Hives ( Italy ) ---------------------------------------------------------------- Get your free email from AltaVista at http://altavista.iname.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 13:15:58 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Ross Rounds MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anyone out there in Canada, Mexico, or the US who has at least 350 first quality Ross Round(tm) sections for sale? Buyer needs several thousand. If interested, please contact me by private email or at 518-370-4989 between 9:30 AM and 3:00 PM EST. Lloyd Lloyd Spear, Owner, Ross Rounds, Inc. The finest in comb honey production. www.rossrounds.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 14:32:26 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Midnitebee Subject: Dr. Ferdinand Ruzicka/ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greetings! Dr. Ferdinand Ruzicka has informed us about his English "speaking" web = site. Most interesting reading about Apidology "Honey Bee Viruses and Varroa = jacobsoni" http://www.geocities.com/drruzicka/index.html Happy Holidays! Herb/Norma Holly-B Apiary P.O. Box 26 Wells,Maine 04090-0026 Rare and Old Beekeeping Books http://www.cybertours.com/%7Emidnitebee/html/books.html Beekeeping Site http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee Stony Critters Maine's First Rock Painting Site http://pages.ivillage.com/wh/stonycritters/index.html "an educated consumer is YOUR best customer" =20 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 13:01:14 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pollinator@AOL.COM Subject: Re: how to kill bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/21/99 6:05:29 AM Pacific Standard Time, a1b2c3@INAME.COM writes: << From the syrup hole distributor I put in the hive one half glass of Bleach ( the clorine that your wife use for clothes and home cleaning) and half glass of liquid Ammonia (your wife use for home cleaning, very common here in Europe ). This mixture is harmfull owig to poisoning gasses produced. Once Closed the hole , in few minutes, all bees will die. >> Be careful! That's a good way to also kill yourself. It has been done. Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Home Page: http://www.pollinator.com Unique Y2K gifts for your pollination customers, and gardening friends: http://members.aol.com/PotGold/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 09:45:57 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: how to kill bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit So far the only really safe way to kill bees is the dry ice method. Carbon Tet is a carcinogen. Clorine gas is released with ammonia and bleach. But if you touch the dry ice.... So maybe the safest way to kill bees is to give them to another beekeeper. Bill T Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 16:42:43 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: How to kill bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Bill Truesdell wrote: >So far the only really safe way to kill bees is the dry ice method. Carbon >Tet is a carcinogen. Clorine gas is released with ammonia and bleach. A question: Will chlorine gas kill AFB spores? Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 963-8508 (home phone) 967 Garcia Road (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 **************************************************************************** ******* * * "The history of physics is the history of giving up cherished ideas." * * Andrew Strominger, Harvard physicist (1999) * **************************************************************************** ******* From MAILER-DAEMON Sun Feb 13 07:13:03 2000 Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA08350 for ; Sun, 13 Feb 2000 07:13:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02337 for ; Sun, 13 Feb 2000 07:13:01 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200002131213.HAA02337@listserv.albany.edu> Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 07:13:01 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8d)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG9912C" To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Content-Length: 104431 Lines: 2317 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 22:42:11 -0500 Reply-To: beeman@kingston.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: kent stienburg Subject: Re: A beginner's question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Carmenie, Well AFB can be spread from robbing or drifting of bees. However, since your hives where used and I assume you didn't know why bees where no longer kept in them then the spores may have been in the equipment. Since you have burnt one hive. Watch the remaining hives this spring. If it shows up again in my opinion you have 2 choices. 1. Burn the hive. 2. Move the bees in to a completely new hive with fresh foundation and feed heavily with fresh syrup. Leave all the brood and honey behind. Burn them then bury the remains. The spores are passed to the larvae in food. By the time the queen has cells to lay in the bees should have used up any food they may have had with them. I would only do this if there are enough bees to make it worth while. Just my opinion. Good luck Kent Kingston, Ontario ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 22:54:23 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: kathleen darrell Subject: Re: A beginner's question Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > > Carmenie,of > > Markdale, Ontario, Canada > wrote about her experience with AFB and old equipment. I have kept bees for over 25 years and still worry about used bee equipment. Yes, Carmenie, I think you got AFB with the equipment. Check out the method suggested by Doug McRory, Provincial Apiarist Ontario Ministry of Agriculture, in that the bees, from the AFB infested hive, are saved by shaking them onto a cloth in front of a hive body with foundation. The old infested frames are burned, while hive bodies etc are scorched if otherwise worthy. The Dufferin Beekeepers Association meets in Orangeville Ontario at the OMAFRA office, second Tuesday each month at 7:30PM. Tomorrow is our Christmas Potluck Dinner. Join us then or in the newyear. Bob Darrell RR#2 Caledon Ontario CANADA L0N1C0 80W44N ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 11:51:06 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Murray McGregor Subject: Re: fumidil experiment In-Reply-To: <199912141301.IAA03329@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 >FWIW, I am somewhat skeptical that comb fumigation with acetic acid, and >comb renewal programs are sufficient to solve the problem (although I do not >disbelieve the European experience). I started over 200 packages this past >spring from New Zealand, and they were shaken from two different beekeepers. >I also picked up another batch of over 200 for other beekeepers. In both >cases the majority of the load came in excellent condition and some were >very very poor. It was determined that one of the beekeepers had high >levels of nosema and this was the likely cause. Although it is some years now since we imported package bees due to health restrictions, there was always a golden rule. NEVER, NEVER instal them without a good feed of clean fumidil treated syrup. The same applies in almost as great importance to shaken swarms, which we HAVE done in more recent years (basically a package you make yourself). Without treatment bees subjected to this kind of stress suffer a high attrition rate from Nosema, and related dysentry. Untreated, as many as 75% could die in the coming winter, yet that can drop to below 20%, even below 10% with the use of fumidil. 5 years ago I was tempted to do an experiment with shaken swarms (in May) and found that of the 20 left untreated only 3 survived (and all 3 were weak) the coming winter, even after the whole summer to recover from what had been done to them, but 16 of the treated ones came through, of which many were strong. I reckon that is an experiment not worth repeating. It does take bees a good while...up to a year, and sometimes more... to fully get over having this done to them. They have been stressed severely and that does make them vulnerable to the nosema which is around everywhere. Even migratory operations sometimes are plagued with high numbers of small colonies and slow build up in spring which is often related to some degree of nosema, again stress related. Yes, we fumigate all the combs from winter dead outs. Yes, we cut out and burn any heavily soiled combs from apparently nosema troubled colonies. No, we do not routinely treat with fumidil, except where stress has been likely. However, all these have their place in a balanced programme of management for nosema. Local factors have a great influence as well. We have cold, but not severely so, winters here in Scotland, which tend to be long, grey, and damp. Typical of maritime climates, but by tradition this is just the kind of winter to give rise to nosema troubles. Others on the list will have completely different problems which means that there will be no substitute for local knowledge of what works and what does not for your area. I guess that what this really comes round to is that I probably agree with Stan. Given management practices involving high amounts of migration, coupled with the use of packages or shaken swarms and temperate to cold weather wintering, that fumidil is an important weapon in the battle to contol nosema. I do not subscribe to the view that it should be a universal, annual treatment, certainly in our local circumstances. Murray -- Murray McGregor ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 08:49:02 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Roger Flanders Subject: U.S. Public Lands MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My search of the Bee-L archives revealed only scattered references to bees on public lands. I'm wondering if it is legal, and if so, how is permission obtained, to "pasture" bees, even temporarily, on U.S. Forest Service or BLM public lands? Do any of the list's subscribers, particularly from western states, know whether it would be legal to move a trailer of hives temporarily onto public land to try to take advantage of a mountain wildflower bloom? --Rog Flanders ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 20:20:26 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Midnitebee Subject: Update/articles MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings! We have updated the "Bee Articles"... Dec.issue (George Imirie) http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee Herb/Norma Holly-B Apiary P.O. Box 26 Wells,Maine 04090-0026 Beekeeping Site http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee Stony Critters Maine's First Rock Painting Site http://pages.ivillage.com/wh/stonycritters/index.html "an educated consumer is YOUR best customer" ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 21:21:47 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Tim Rich Subject: Re: Hive design MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Carmenie Stemmler asked about the D.E hive design.=20 Chris Slade said:=20 I have looked at the design of the David Eyre hive on his web site . . . = The innovation is the ventilation system which I have not tried but is = on my very long list of things to do. And Garry Libby said: I have two D.E. Hives and I think they are great. During the hottest days of last summer when My ten other hives had huge beards on the = front, My D.E. Hives had none, this is due to the great ventilation those hives feature. I also have the conversion kit on one hive, then, as I am a hobby wood = worker tried making an 11 frame D.E. hive to - as I have a significant = investment in Peirco frames(sorry Dave). I have experimented with = several different hive bottoms and am experimenting to make a hive = bottom that will allow mite drop counts without moving hive bottom. = However, I must admit that my years of bee keeping to not compare with = those who have been doing this for years. The thing that amazed my = neighbor, who has kept bees for more than 50 years is how many bees were = in my hives - and being in the Southern USA, that they never had a = beard! He puts additional covers over his hives (plywood painted white) = to keep his bees from all hanging out! =20 As to productivity - I just know that I have more honey than we need, = and find it to be a great way to give gifts to those who have = everything. Except honey from my sons hives. Cannot compare to my = neighbor's hives - has different bees(more aggressive) and wooden frames = with foundation. I bought a queen from him for one of my hives that = went queen-less after split(I am still learning) and will learn how to = replace a productive queen this spring as I don't like to be stung! =20 He likes the design of the hive and we will try it on his hives next = spring. Will take his most unproductive hive and one of his more = productive hives for production experiment. Best of luck to you in your bee keeping. =20 Tim Rich=20 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 13:18:50 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jerry J Bromenshenk Subject: Re: U.S. Public Lands In-Reply-To: <199912151521.KAA12315@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:49 AM 12/15/99 -0600, you wrote: The issue is not so much the public lands, but state laws. For example, in MT, you can't place bees anywhere without registering the apiary. The location must be down to the 1/4 section. You can't place your bees close than 3 miles to the next nearest beekeeper (who has a properly registered bee site). There are some exceptions to this distance limit for landowners who keep bees and hobbiests. So, if you pull your trailer into MT and set it on an unregistered site, you will probably get to meet the local Sheriff. Next door in Washington, the registrations work somewhat differently. Jerry J. Bromenshenk, Ph.D. Director, DOE/EPSCoR & Montana Organization for Research in Energy The University of Montana-Missoula Missoula, MT 59812-1002 E-Mail: jjbmail@selway.umt.edu Tel: 406-243-5648 Fax: 406-243-4184 http://www.umt.edu/biology/more http://www.umt.edu/biology/bees ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 15:47:12 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: William Morong Subject: Hive ventilation Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I cannot say whether the D.E. hives successfully address the ventilation problem, but can vouch for the fact that the usual arrangement does not. This Fall, with the colonies populous and finishing off their Fumidil syrup, the top shavings in the shavings boxes got quite wet. I tried spacing the outer covers up 1/2", then 1", using drywall screws. Despite 1/2" clearance horizontally all around between the box and the outer cover, and the new vertical clearance made above the box edges, things were still too wet. I made new outer covers which greatly increased ventilation above the shavings box, and succeeded in getting things dried out. Now with the syrup gone, and temperatures between 20 and 40 F, the bees have settled down, and just for a test I tried a regular cover, which now seems to work, but you can bet that once Spring feeding starts and the willow and maple yield nectar, that regular outer cover will make things wet again. It is deceptive to check the dryness out in mildly cool weather when the bees' metabolic rates are low. My guess is that in this climate, any detectable moisture now is too much. It's no wonder that I saw a little chalkbrood in some colonies early last Spring. Furthermore, last season when the bees were curing honey, things got too moist and some bees started gnawing wood at cracks to get more ventilation. (The outer covers were already spaced up about 3/8".) I made a 5" diameter hole in each inner cover and screened it with metal screen. Had the bees found this excessive they easily could have propolized it, but did not. Perhaps larger holes were needed. I suspect that despite all this, plus a 2" high entrance with Killion slatted boards, my bees' ventilation was marginal. If the bees bring in 15# of nectar in a day and cure it, much water must come out of the hive. It is further questionable whether my central location of the screened hole was good, as the bees tend to block off the lower central combs containing brood with their bodies when fanning and direct their fanning to pull air down at the sides of the hive. Perhaps the bees' propensity to fill central combs more willingly relates to the difficulty in establishing good airflow in corners. Do we humans have an inkling of 10% of what would be optimal? The season's end frustrated further learning, but what was learned made the need for something like the D.E. hive seem very real. Bill Morong ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 15:36:07 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: U.S. Public Lands Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To place hives on U.S. Forest land, I believe one must have a "grazing" permit from that agency ahead of time. That is, bee pasture becomes leased out to individual beekeepers, with a fee charged for each hive in place and the actual site negotiated with the regional ranger. At least, that is what I did in the past. Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 963-8508 (home phone) 967 Garcia Road (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 **************************************************************************** ******* * * "The history of physics is the history of giving up cherished ideas." * * Andrew Strominger, Harvard physicist (1999) * **************************************************************************** ******* ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 19:15:49 -0800 Reply-To: JamesCBach Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: JamesCBach Subject: Fumidil experiment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Stan Sandler and Murray McGregor make some good comments on Nosema in honey bees. But remember that, as with all diseases, and conditions of colonies you don't know whether the bees have Nosema, or other organism, unless you do some laboratory work. Observations may suggest that the "condition" of a colony(s) is not as it should be, but defining the condition or identifying the malady can only be done by the laboratory. (Even though Varroa can be seen you don't know the level of infection until you conduct a survey.) Anything else is mere conjecture. Conjecture costs the beekeeping industry hundreds of thousands of dollars each year in the US because the business decision was not based upon laboratory work or doing a literature search. Drs. Furgala and Mussen did the definitive work on Nosema years ago and there has been some additional science since then. You might read my article in the November 1999 Gleanings on Page 34 for additional studies in Washington State. Thanks James C. Bach jcbach@yvn.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 19:28:30 -0800 Reply-To: JamesCBach Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: JamesCBach Subject: U.S. public lands MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We have recently completed more than four years of work on advocating the use of public lands (state and federal) for bee pasture and staging areas. As Adrian and Jerry state, you can't just put bees on public lands, or private for that matter. Such action is trespassing. The US. Forest Service and BLM have specific language in code allowing them the discretion of issuing use permits to beekeepers. Access to specific sites is based upon the specific or general statutory purpose of the land use. If apiary sites mesh with the statutory purpose, then permits may be issued. Example: WA Fish and Wildlife won't permit apiaries on sites during wildlife calving periods. Usually the fee is based upon some schedule defining the current market value for the use. In Washington, state land is permitted in the same manner. Private land is permitted according to the policy of the owner and usually there is more negotiation about the cost of the permit. James C. Bach jcbach@yvn.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 22:17:37 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: David & Sarah Grew-Foss Subject: Apistan Lifespan Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Last week I wrote about the high levels of mites in the drone bood of one of my hives when I pulled my Apistan strips. The strips were one year old at the time of placement in the hive and had been stored in their original package, out of sunlight. At the suggestion of Lloyd Spear I called the manufacurer. They felt that the strips were NO GOOD becasue they were old. Their reasoning was that because the original packaging was not sealed in an airtight package the fluvinate dried up and lost effectiveness. If you have extra strips after treating be sure to put them in two zip-lock bags, one inside the other, otherwise the strips may go to waste. Now if only they would really tell you how to store them we might not lose as many bees. I would like to thank Lloyd for his help. Sarah Grew Wildcat Canyon, CA USA ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 21:06:52 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Barry Birkey Subject: FGMO Update Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I have the latest update from Dr. Rodriguez on this years use of FGMO and his application method and results. http://www.birkey.com/BLB/Beekeeping/mineraloil.html -Barry -- Barry Birkey West Chicago, IL U.S.A. www.birkey.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 08:05:42 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Murray McGregor Subject: Re: Fumidil experiment In-Reply-To: <199912160449.XAA05264@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 In article <199912160449.XAA05264@listserv.albany.edu>, JamesCBach writes > But remember that, as with all diseases, and conditions of colonies >you don't know whether the bees have Nosema, or other organism, unless you >do some laboratory work. I agree, but in a practical world, where we have 1700 hives, and two people to do them all, finding the time to do lab work just detracts from getting on with the job. There are others on this list with far more colonies to get through than us, so the sheer logistics of the suggestion that they should all be sampled and tested (even at an outside lab) is not practicable. > Observations may suggest that the "condition" of a >colony(s) is not as it should be, but defining the condition or identifying >the malady can only be done by the laboratory. We always, at a commercial level, have to play the odds rather than going for complete certainty. We have 50 years experience of seeing the effects of nosema, and although we won't be right every time we get a pretty good idea of what is going on just by observation. >Conjecture costs the beekeeping industry >hundreds of thousands of dollars each year in the US because the business >decision was not based upon laboratory work Unless you value your time at a very low level, and are able to do your tests yourself, which is admittedly a possibility at a smaller scale level, the cost of a lab test is many times more than the cost of a fumidil treatment. If you know the vulnerability of certain colonies due to stress etc, and that a high proportion of them will exhibit some degree of nosema symptoms, then a prophylactic treatment is prudent and economically sound. Perhaps, for arguments sake, say 50% turned out not to need it in lab tests, you will have saved the cost of treating 50% of them, but added the cost of treating 100% of them. Thus I would probably argue that this conjecture, which is only valid if based on experience and/or good research, actually SAVES a lot of money. Once again though, I am NOT arguing for universal annual prophylactic treatment. Only where a definite risk pattern is established should it be applied to all colonies subject to these circumstances. Another situation could be where you have noted a rising trend of nosema related symptoms occurring in your colonies, because waiting until you have a serious outbreak proven by testing is, at least economically, way way too late. One round of treatment applied at the correct time can tidy you up for seasons to come. Sometimes you will get it wrong, but in a small minority of cases. The colony which does not have nosema, but is in a high risk group, will not be harmed by treatment. Occasionally your symptoms may be the result of something else stressing the colony, such as tracheal mites or queen problems, although nowadays colonies failing from tracheal (acarine) mites is relatively rare here. In those cases you wasted the treatment and the colony will still fail, when an alternative measure may have succeeded. Once again, though, this brings us back to commercial reality, where this minority that are not right are just accepted to be write-offs which will die( that could start a few flames!). Of course, you do not know which ones they are until they are dead in spring. There is just no economic sense in testing everything exhaustively to look for a few colonies which do not fit into the pattern your experience or knowledge dictate. In the case of the few colonies suffering tracheal mite related symptoms, saving them, especially in a situation where the vast majority of the colonies are mite tolerant, just perpetuates the problem. >You might read my article in the November 1999 Gleanings on Page 34 for >additional studies in Washington State. I don't get Gleanings. I used to back in the 80's, but currently the only US journal I subscribe to is ABJ. Is there an on line version I can go to look at? Kind regards to all Murray -- Murray McGregor ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 10:01:14 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Anthony N Morgan Organization: Sor-Trondelag College, Division of Electronic Engineering Subject: Re: FGMO Update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Barry Birkey wrote: > > I have the latest update from Dr. Rodriguez on this years use of FGMO and > his application method and results. > > http://www.birkey.com/BLB/Beekeeping/mineraloil.html Dr. Rodriguez refers to the use of Penreco Drakeol (FGMO), having found a site http://www.chemexpo.com/show/exhibitorhall/penreco/html/mineral-oils.html that gives specifications for Penreco Drakeol white mineral oils (food grade) I note that there are *many* viscosity grades. The latest update from Dr. Rodriguez does NOT specify which grade was used with the Burgess Propane Insect Fogger, nor is the composition of the "FGMO/sugar emulsion, provided by Penreco Technology Center laboratories" specified. For the report to be meaningful this lack of information should be corrected forthwith. Applying FGMO by two methods simultaneously is not justified in the report - each method used alone was presumably not considered enough - some explanation of the reasoning ought to be included. Anthony N Morgan, ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 10:18:21 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Midnitebee Subject: 2000 Beekeeping Workshop MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greetings! Just letting other folks know about the Auburn University Honey Bee = Management Symposium Herb/Norma Holly-B Apiary P.O. Box 26 Wells,Maine 04090-0026 Rare and Old Beekeeping Books http://www.cybertours.com/%7Emidnitebee/html/books.html Beekeeping Site http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee Stony Critters Maine's First Rock Painting Site http://pages.ivillage.com/wh/stonycritters/index.html "an educated consumer is YOUR best customer" Auburn University Honey Bee Management Symposium Saturday, February 12, 2000=20 8:00 a.m. to 3:30 p.m. Auburn University -- Lowder Business Building 415 West Magnolia Ave Auburn, Alabama Registration: $15.00 per person Sponsors: =20 Alabama Extension System (Department of Entomology & Plant Pathology, = Auburn University) State of Alabama, Dept. of Alabama & Industries, Plant Protection = Section =20 In cooperation with The Alabama State Beekeepers' Association Instructors =20 .Mr. Bobby Fanning, President, Alabama State Beekeepers' = Association, Huntsville, AL .Mr. John Grafton, Ohio Department of Agriculture, Apiculture = Section, Reynoldsburg, OH .Mr. David Heilman, Apiculturist and Master Beekeeper, = Entomology, The Ohio State University .Mr. Dwight Tew, President, Tennessee State Beekeepers' = Association, Franklin, TN .Dr. James E. Tew, Entomology, The Ohio State University and = Extension Consultant, Auburn University Symposium Topics=20 .Small Hive Beetle .Commercial = Pollination .New Bee Equipment Ideas .Bee Biology & = Behavior .Getting Started in Beekeeping .Marketing Your Honey = Locally Auburn Beekeeping Workshop Registration Form Pre-Registration Deadline: February 4, 2000 Name(s):=20 Address: City: State: = Zip: =20 Telephone: ( ) Fax: = E-Mail: Quantity = Total Registration @ $15.00 per person Make check payable to: Auburn University Mail to: Ms. Sandy Pouncey, Dept. of Entomology, 301 Funchess Hall, = Auburn University, AL 36849-5615; Telephone: (334) 844-2551; Fax: = (334) 844-5005; E-mail: spouncey@acesag.auburn.edu Topic Tracks Track 1 topics are considered to be of interest to beekeepers = having about 5 years or more of beekeeping experience. Track 2 topics are considered to be of interest to beekeepers = having less than 5 years of experience or having no experience at all. = However, participants may go to any session that they wish regardless = of experience. =20 Program 8:00 - 8:45 a.m. Registration 8:45 - 9:00 Welcome and Opening Remarks =20 9:00 -10:00 Keynote: The Small Hive Beetle in Alabama -- = Should We Worry - Jim Tew 10:00 -10:30 Controlling Varroa -- What's Old and What's = New - Dave Heilman 10:30 -10:45 Break 10:45 -11:30 American Foulbrood -- A Familiar Enemy - John = Grafton 11:30 -12:00 New Bee Equipment Ideas -- What's Good & = What's Bad - Dave Heilman 12:00 -1:00 p.m. Lunch (On Your Own) - (Open Hive Demonstration = During Lunch*) 1:00 -2:00 Track 1 Getting Started in Beekeeping - = Bobby Fanning Track 2 Commercial Pollination - It's Not = Boring Any More - Jim Tew 2:00 -3:00 Track 1 Bee Biology and Behavior (Outdoor = Demonstration*) - John Grafton Track 2 Developing a Local Market for Your = Honey Crop - Dwight Tew 3:00 -3:15 Both Tracks: The Present State of Alabama = Beekeeping - Jim Tew 3:15 Door Prizes, Evaluations, and Goodbye *Outdoor demonstrations are weather dependent. If weather prohibits, = discussions will proceed indoors with visual aids rather than live bees. = Bring your personal protective equipment for outdoor demonstrations. Dr. James E. Tew State Specialist, Beekeeping Department of Entomology The Ohio State University Wooster, OH 44691 (330)263-3684 Tew.1@osu.edu http://www2.oardc.ohio-state.edu/agnic/bee/ http://www2.oardc.ohio-state.edu/beelab/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 11:21:26 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: FGMO Update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A couple of other questions. Were there only two controls, or are the hives that died all controls? The controls got no treatment, at least that is my guess. Or did they? What other preventative measures were used, if any? When was the sampling taken? We know that mite drop occurs with the introduction of FGMO, so you will get reduced mite count after an application. If the others that died were not controls, then you have 20% mortality in the group with the controls- both died- and 24% mortality in the other apiary with no controls. It is a little difficult to see just what is going on with the data presented, other than FGMO works 75% of the time. Bill T ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 19:34:58 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Chris Ignasiak <75442.1721@COMPUSERVE.COM> Subject: NOVA - "Tales from the Hive" My husband is a newspaper editor and received the following press release from our local PBS station. I thought other beekeepers would be interested. What's the buzz? NOVA explores one of nature's most fascination creatures on "Tales from the Hive", airing Tuesday, January 4 at 9 p.m. on WVIZ/PBS. Filmed in stunning micro-detail, as if by a bee with a Betacam, the program covers key moments in the life of a honey bee hive. The "Bee-cam" footage is some of the most extraordinary nature photography ever made, supplying intimate glimpses of bees on the wing and at home. Honey bees are the ultimate intelligent insects, with a sophisticated system for communicating the location of food plus a selfless instinct for confronting danger and sharing resources. The press release continues for another page with details of the program. Local times may be different throughout the country but it sounds like a great program and worth taping. Chris Ignasiak Avon, Ohio ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 18:07:12 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Nancy D Subject: 2000 Beekeeping Class in AR Comments: To: TO SEND MESSAGE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Fayetteville, Ar classes begin January 27, 2000. Continues every Thurs. evening from 6pm to 9pm for 4 sessions. Instructor: Ed Levi, State Apiary Inspector. Cost will be $15.00 per participant and the fee will cover the cost of the text book. The classes will be at the Washington Co Cooperative Extension Office in Fayetteville. For further information you can call:The Cooperative Extension at 501-444-1755 or the Apiary office at 501-225-1598. You can also call the NWA Beekeeper's Association President, Horace Bryant at 501-756-2909 or Nancy Dalrymple 501-267-6348. Hope to see ya there!! Anyone that is interested in bees is more than welcome to join us. Nancy Dalrymple rymple@pgtc.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 09:15:55 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Borst Subject: Re: Apistan Lifespan In-Reply-To: <199912170500.AAA10457@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 12:00 AM 12/17/99 -0500, you wrote: >Their reasoning was that because the original packaging was not sealed in an >airtight package the fluvinate dried up and lost effectiveness. The >strips were one year old at >the time of placement in the hive and had been stored in their original >package, out of sunlight. I don't think that this is borne out by the experience of the majority. I think you may have fluvalinate resistant mites. I suggest you try an alternative treatment. DON'T overlap chemicals, however. Studies have shown that fluvalinate is present in the combs for weeks after using the strips. I would remove all the brood and freeze it. Then you can give the combs back and the bees will clean them out. Use a different chemical in January or February. Try having your hives build some drone comb. By giving a frame with most of the comb cut out, you can get nice drone combs built in the spring. Remove these when the drone brood is capped and freeze it. If your hives are close together, you will want to treat them all the same because if there are resistant mites around, they will piggyback on drifting bees and soon all your hives will have them. PB ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 22:53:28 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: christopher.slade@ZBEE.COM Organization: ZbeeNet computer networking for beekeepers Subject: Treatments for bee diseases CHRS: IBMPC 2 CODEPAGE: 850 MSGID: 240:244/186 7ed41e93 REPLY: 240:44/0 6045a95b PID: FDAPX/w 1.13 UnReg Peter Borst asks how Europeans kill diseased colonies of bees. In the case of AFB the hive is closed in the evening after flying has ceased and petrol is poured through the feed hole in the crown board. This kills the bees rapidly and humanely and also probably assists the subsequent funeral pyre. I have killed a colony of dangerously psychopathic bees by spraying each comb of bees with very dilute detergent washing up liquid using a mist sprayer. Chris Slade, UK --- * Origin: Beenet Point (240:244/186) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 11:49:04 -0500 Reply-To: tvf@umich.edu Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ted Fischer Organization: ACB Dept., Univ of Michigan Subject: Re: Treatments for bee diseases MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit christopher.slade@ZBEE.COM wrote: > Peter Borst asks how Europeans kill diseased colonies of bees. In the case of > AFB the hive is closed in the evening after flying has ceased and petrol is > poured through the feed hole in the crown board. This kills the bees rapidly > and humanely and also probably assists the subsequent funeral pyre. I have > killed a colony of dangerously psychopathic bees by spraying each comb of bees > with very dilute detergent washing up liquid using a mist sprayer. I have seen bees treated with petrol (gasoline), and it is not very nice. Yes the outer bees are killed, but they rapidly cluster, and the inner ones die very slowly. They also are extremely irritable, and if the cluster is opened, much stinging will occur. Yes, I agree that the funeral pyre will be well fueled, but again - petrol (gasoline) is extremely dangerous to ignite, and serious burns may result. I agree that the method of spraying with a detergent solution does a quick and much more humane job than the former. Ted Fischer Dexter, Michigan USA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 12:39:37 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Dr. Malcom (Tom) Sanford" Organization: Dept of Entomology/Nematology, U. of Florida Subject: Colloidal Silver Comments: To: "aapa-l: American Association of Professional Apiculturist" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I have been asked about feeding colloidal silver to honey bees in water. It appears to have worked in humans, chickens, dogs, etc...why not insects? Tom Sanford -- =========================================================================== Dr. Malcolm (Tom) Sanford, Extension Apiculturist, University of Florida Bldg. 970, P.O. Box 110620, Gainesville, FL 32611-0620 Ph. 352/392-1801 ext. 143 Fax 352/392-0190 E-mail: mts@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Publisher of the APIS newsletter: http://www.ifas.ufl.edu/~mts/apishtm/apis.htm To electronically subscribe, send the following to listserv@lists.ufl.edu: subscribe Apis-L First Name Last Name ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Author of "Beekeeping in the Digital Age" http://bee.airoot.com/beeculture/digital/ =========================================================================== ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 20:29:27 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ken Hoare Subject: Re: Treatments for bee diseases MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ted Fischer writes "I have seen bees treated with petrol (gasoline), and = it is not very nice. Yes the outer bees are killed, but they rapidly = cluster, and the inner ones die very slowly. They also are extremely = irritable, and if the cluster is opened, much stinging will occur. Yes, = I agree that the funeral pyre will be well fuelled, but again - petrol (gasoline) is extremely dangerous to ignite, and serious = burns may result." The first part is not my experience - the experience of destroying = nearly 50 colonies infested with American Foul Brood during my last year = carrying out disease inspections. I might add that 99% of these were = owned by one beekeeper so I know who is the major spreader of this = disease. As for the method of controlling this disease, I firmly believe that for = once us Brits have got it right. That might provoke a comment or two = from the multiple hive American beekeeper, those that have hundreds, = even thousands of hives. Not earning my living from bees I don't know if = I would feel the same if I was in their shoes. But I do know that if I = ever moved to any part of the world where terramycin was the method of = control, with my 20 colonies I would say, "No thanks" and grab for the = petrol can. And I destroyed many more in previous years, about a half pint of petrol = (never measured it) poured in through a feed hole and within seconds, = yes literally seconds, the whole colony is destroyed and can be = dismantled ready for the fire. But from there onwards I agree with Ted, it's not a very nice job and I = can still hear that terrific roar as the petrol is poured in. And = somehow, even with the petrol can sealed, they seemed to sense those = vapours and you need to work fast. The dangers of petrol I totally agree = with having taken the cap off the can whilst at least 15 feet from the = fire and the lot exploded and started spewing flames. I suppose I done = the natural thing and threw the can, that was a big mistake. A strand of = flaming petrol poured from it. But I was lucky and unscathed (and cannot blame the balding head on this = event). The accident was reported to those that sit in plush leather = chairs and suggested we use carbon tetracycline (think that is the = correct name, was used for dry cleaning and in some fire extinguishers) = to do the job. Apparently this is very carcinogenic, but maybe petrol is = also a lot cheaper. I also have to disagree with my countryman Chris when he states, "killed = a colony of dangerously psychopathic bees by spraying each comb of bees = with very dilute detergent washing up liquid using a mist sprayer." I = know that Chris lives in a very rural part of the UK, so do I, but there = are residents within easy flying distance of all my hives. I try and = consider their safety, very few households have a Sherriffs outfit = tucked away in the linen cupboard. No a half a pint of petrol is = generally safer for both beekeeper and non-beekeeper - and hell to the = damage caused to the combs. May I use this opportunity to promote www.ludlow-beekeepers.co.uk I know = some of the pages are pretty slow in loading, old in the tooth but just = a boy when it comes to building web pages. Save yourself time and go = straight to the Talking Point - Pollination pages. There are photographs = of pollen there that I find more beautiful than anything I could see in = our National or Tate Galleries. But I warn you, I cannot release copies = (unless you are willing to pay), you might be trying to make a living = from bees, this friend is doing the same with microscopy. I'm sorry that Ken is in an argumentative mood this evening. Ken Hoare, now ludlowbe@freenetname.co.uk ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 18:47:37 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re: SAFB IS A NEW AND CONTAGIOUS DISEASE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Multiple antibiotic resistant Tuberculosis is still called TB. It may be a new strain but it is not a new species. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 18:47:46 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: CSlade777@AOL.COM Subject: Re Nosema MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Murray is right to emphasise that Nosema is very much stress related. The main limb of any treatment must be to identify and remove the causes of stress. If the beekeeper through his practices is the cause of the stress and for reasons of his own finds this unavoidable then I agree that the use of Fumidil is probably the best compromise. It has been used for so many years now that I wonder why resistance has not arisen. Chris Slade ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 17:13:51 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Al Subject: Re: Apistan Lifespan In-Reply-To: <199912171510.KAA20930@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > >Their reasoning was that because the original packaging was not sealed in an > >airtight package the fluvinate dried up and lost effectiveness. > I don't think that this is borne out by the experience of the majority. I > think you may have fluvalinate resistant mites. I wonder if a simple experiment would work to test the mites for resistance. Take a strip and "bend" it around the inside of a large mason jar so that if forms a ring around the inside of the jar. Punch a few holes in the lid for air (ever wonder what a entrance feeder could be good for? :) Put in a little candy for food and then scoop up some bees in the same manner you would for an ether roll. Instead of ether just put the lid on and place the jar in a cool, dark place. 24-48(?) hours later release the bees back to the hive and see how many dead mites are left in the jar. Maybe before you release the bees a visual inspection for attached mites? Any thoughts? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 23:47:28 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Scott Moser Subject: Beginning Beekeeping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings all, I would also like to announce that there will be a beginning beekeeping class offered in the St. Louis, Missouri area. The Jefferson County Beekeepers Association, in cooperation with Jefferson College, will be offering a 5 week, Adult Education class entitled Beginning Beekeeping. The course will meet each Tuesday, Feb 15, 22, 29, and March 7 &14, from 6:30 - 8:30 pm, at the Hillsboro, Missouri Campus. The campus is located on Highway 21 in Hillsboro, approximately 40 miles southwest of St. Louis. Cost of the class is $45.00, which includes textbook. In addition, each participant receives Adult Education credit, plus one years membership in the Jefferson County Beekeepers Association. For info, call (636) 797-3000 or (636) 789-3000. Class size is limited. Hope to see you there! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 08:32:32 -0000 Reply-To: Ruary Rudd Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ruary Rudd Organization: Westgate, waterville Subject: Re: Apistan Lifespan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Borst Sent: 17 December 1999 14:15 Subject: Re: Apistan Lifespan > >Their reasoning was that because the original packaging was not sealed in an > >airtight package the fluvinate dried up and lost effectiveness. The > >strips were one year old at > >the time of placement in the hive and had been stored in their original > >package, out of sunlight. > > I don't think that this is borne out by the experience of the majority. I > think you may have fluvalinate resistant mites. > As the comment came from the manufacturers, then I think it has to be accepted. The question now is what is the shelf life of Apistan strips kept out of sunlight in the original packaging? Secondly what is the shelf life when kept in hermetically sealed conditions? Ruary Rudd rrudd@eircom.net ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 08:44:02 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Murray McGregor Subject: Re: Apistan Lifespan In-Reply-To: <199912180316.WAA10319@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Why not just test this by using a set of completely fresh strips in the hive? Put in a sticky insert on the floor and see how many mites you kill. (Of course, you could be in a northern latitude and in the grip of winter, thus it is of no use at all to test now (other than by the suggested jar method) and you must wait until the weather starts to open up again in spring, but before large amounts of brood are present) Whilst the risk of resistant mites should not be underestimated, as it is significant and spreading, my understanding of the situation is that a very high proportion of those resistant mite reported by beekeepers turn out not to be so when properly tested under the correct conditions. Many of the cases turn out to be because of deficiencies in how, or when, the treatment was applied (including incorrect storage of strips). I would be wary of jumping to a conclusion either way until such time as you have tried fresh strips under good conditions Reading between the lines a bit I wondered if you had bought a full pack of Apistan, opened it, and used some of the strips the previous year. Then you put the pack back on the shelf unsealed to keep the rest for this year. If this is indeed the case then whoever told you about the strips having lost there effectiveness is probably correct as the fluvalinate will largely have evaporated off during the period of incorrect storage. If. however, they were perfectly sealed up, then you could have either resistant mites, or (more likely in my opinion) a re-infestation problem. As this appears to have been the colony you both treated first, and removed treatment first, still in the active season, then I would hazard a guess at re-infestation from a collapsing colony or colonies within a reasonably short distance from your hives. In some experiments re-infestation has been shown to occur at an alarming speed (I have heard reports of 2000 mites entering a colony in a single day) during the peak period for collapsing (possibly just about the time you took the strips out of the colony). Your other colonies would still be protected as they had full treatment still in progress. The final fall back is the resistant mite scenario. To ascertain if you have this trouble we come back to the treatment with fresh strips. Even better would be to test them with flumethrin (Bayvarol or similar) rather than fluvalinate. True resistance confers cross resistance to both pyrethroids, so if nice fresh flumethrin also fails to kill them, when applied at the correct time, then your resistant mite problem will probably be confirmed. As mere e-mail correspondents none of us really seem to have enough information to jump to any conclusions about your situation. Thus it is best that you go through a process of elimination to find out what has happened. My GUESS from the information provided is that your most likely problem is duff strips, and next best bet is re-infestation, and finally resistant mites. Seek advice from your beekeeping authorities locally, and if you don't trust them, try a local beekeeper whose knowledge and expertise you have faith in. Good luck, Murray -- Murray McGregor ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 11:10:01 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Borst Subject: Killing bees with mites Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Hi! Thanks for all the comments in response to my query about killing bees. I have used gasoline (petrol) many times and I think it is fast and safe, if a small quantity is used. However, in an over regulated country like ours, you are supposed to use approved pesticides and there aren't any approved for beekeepers to use (that I know of). Most chemicals require a licensed pesticide applicator. In any case, what I was looking for (I guess this was unclear) was a way of killing mite-infested colonies. In other words, if one decides not to treat for mites using coumaphos or whatever, and wishes to halt the spread of mites, killing the colony is a possible choice. Unfortunately, the usual methods ruin the honey, and in the case of gasoline, presuppose the burning of the equipment. With mites, there is no reason not to extract out the honey and reuse the hive. Normally, when a colony is "no good" one could just dump it out on the ground and take away the equipment. Of course, with mites, this would result in driving the mites into neighboring colonies. I suppose one could vacuum the bees out of the hive and then do away with them in soapy water... PB ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 11:11:18 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: darn@FREENET.EDMONTON.AB.CA Subject: Re: Killing bees with mites In-Reply-To: <199912181723.MAA23029@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII The method used in Alberta for killing colonies ( In the past when package bees were bought in the spring and killed in the fall) was to put a tablespoon of calcium cyanide on a piece of paper, insert the paper into the lower entrance and close up the hive. The calcium cyanide reacts with the water vapour in the air to form hydrogen cyanide gas and lime. There was essentially no contamination of the hive equipment. Cyanide is quite dangerous, but so is gasoline. Best regards, Donald Aitken Edmonton Alberta Canada ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 14:04:47 -0800 Reply-To: JamesCBach Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: JamesCBach Subject: Killing bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I use soapy water to kill bees in weak, mite infested colonies, or AFB diseased hives. I use either a five gallon bucket or a heavy plastic garbage bag containing warm soapy water. The bucket of soapy water is set in the apiary, the garbage bag with soapy water is set on the ground with one side up against a hive. One side of the mouth of the sack is laid on the cover of the hive and held in place with two bricks or rocks. I use two or three gallons of soapy water depending on how many colonies (frames of bees) I will be killing. Take the hive apart at night or on a rainy day when the bees aren't flying. Shake each comb of bees into the water by grasping one end of the frame. Hold open the sack with one hand and shake the bees in. The process is faster if you have a buddy along to assist, especially if you have several hives to shake. Destroy combs containing AFB symptoms, scrape the other frames, boxes, bottom and top boards thoroughly with a sharp hive tool. Mark the hive in some manner so that you know it has had AFB. Shake a large swarm (or several small ones) into the hive next spring and pour medicated syrup over the bees at least twice two or three days apart, and put some in a feeder. If the state inspector is the person who found the AFB problem you will be required to follow the procedure specified by the inspector within the specified time period. It may be different than the method I have given above. James C. Bach jcbach@yvn.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 14:25:03 PST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: GREGOIRE@ENDOR.COM Subject: Used Christmas trees/ Hive ventilation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hello Gang, I shut off my electric fence for the winter this week. The cold and wind have kept the weather winter like enough to make me think that the bears have finally called it quits for the rest of the season. Whew!! My hives are wrapped in open cell foam backed plastic with air holes cut to the ajoining holes in the hive bodies for ventilation. The mouse guards are on too. The wind is "Ah-Blowin a livin gale out theyah!" as we say in New England. I usually place a sheet of tar paper in front of the entrances to block a strong blast of wind. The paper forms a lean to at the entrance and does not completely block it shut. This also allows for the bees to enter and egress. This year I tried something new. I cut some branches from Chirstmas trees that border our land and placed them in front of each hive entrance instead of using the tar paper. It took from three to five branches depending on how thick they were. The bees can still come and go, the sun shines through the branches, and the force of the wind is broken from having a direct access to the entrance. I figure that just after the first of the year there will be lots of raw material around anywhere in the country for wind breaks.And as a bonus, I completely covered a nuc igloo style with the entrance side branches slightly over hanging box. The branches in the front are arranged so the sun shines right on the box but the branches protect the entrance from the wind. Merry Christmas to all , Ernie Gregoire "Beekeeper," definition= partially brave, partially excentric Grist Mill Apiary Canaan, NH. USA ------------------------------------- 12/17/99 14:25:03 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 17:28:22 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Al Subject: Re: Killing bees with mites In-Reply-To: <199912181726.MAA23048@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > In any case, what I was looking for (I guess this was > unclear) was a way of killing mite-infested colonies. In other words, > if one decides not to treat for mites using coumaphos or whatever, > and wishes to halt the spread of mites, killing the colony is a > possible choice. Unfortunately, the usual methods ruin the > honey, and in the case of gasoline, presuppose the burning of the > equipment. With mites, there is no reason not to extract out the > honey and reuse the hive. > Close the entrance tight, place a large piece of dry ice under the cover and then put a large plastic bag over the hive for a few minutes. Once things get quiet get the hive open because the dying bees are going to release a lot of water. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 10:29:50 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Borst Subject: Re: Apistan resistance In-Reply-To: <199912190502.AAA06897@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Regarding the shelf life of Apistan, many beekeepers have reused the strips after they have hung in the hive and have found them still working. I want to emphasize that I DO NOT RECOMMEND this, but state it only to underscore the concept that one year old strips stored wrapped up in the dark are very unlikely to be stale. The fluvalinate is not particularly volatile; otherwise it would evaporate rapidly in the warm hive and would not remain active for the six weeks that is needed to destroy the mites in a colony. On the other hand, since the correspondent was writing from California and had captured swarms as a means of obtaining bees, I felt the warning about resistant mites was justified. California, due to its large concentration of migratory beekeepers, as well as amateurs, has always had more than its share of bee disease. I lived in San Diego for decades and saw many abandoned apiaries rife with AFB. Many commercial beekeepers told me that they simply kept Terramycin in the hives year-round. I don't doubt that many of them do the same with Apistan, despite the admonitions. Finally, we must not ever get into the habit of thinking any one treatment is going to always work. Try as many different ones as possible. In the recent "Gleanings," Prof. Calderone notes that colonies that are split in the spring tend to wind up with lower concentrations of mites. It may be worthwhile to develop a management technique that employs larger numbers of medium strength colonies rather than fewer very strong ones, even if one is raising bees for honey. If one is pollinating for a fee, this is probably the approach one is already using. Peter Borst plb6@cornell.edu http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/plb6/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 16:17:29 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Carol Malcolm Subject: Virgin Island beekeeper? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Please contact me off list; I have a request for help from the Virgin Islands. Thanks in advance Carol Carol K. Malcolm dewsnap@worldnet.att.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 14:21:35 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ken Hoare Subject: Enviromentally friendly disease control MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I wonder why James Bach, who I know and hold in great respect as a beekeeper, never mentions using the gas torch on AFB infected equipment. The UK practice is to torch the interior surfaces of the boxes paying particular attention to corners and along the frame runners, castellated spacers or whatever is used. I know it cannot be guaranteed 100% to destroy spores, neither can the medications now that the disease has become resistant. No need to burn the woodwork, a dark coffee colour is sufficient. I know James has suggested, "destroy combs containing AFB symptoms", but with frames costing about 50 pence (is that 80 cents) locally you would not catch me, "scraping infected frames clean" - and what is 'clean'? As James knows the practice in the UK is that AFB infected colonies MUST be destroyed, whereas EFB colonies can be treated if the National Bee Unit decide the level of infection (and other criteria) is low, then with the permission of the owner they can be medicated (by an authorised officer). Fortunately, personally I have never experienced either of the diseases but they would NEVER get my permission to apply medications - DESTROY BEES AND BURN EQUIPMENT THAT CANNOT BE STERILISED WITH THE GAS TORCH - and in the UK sit back and await Bee Disease Insurance to give very generous compensation (that is unless the UK beekeeper has been so stingy not to pay his dues - for each hive less than the cost of one of those frames). And all of this is available to the commercial beekeeper - just that the subscriptions are a little higher. No us Brits are thinking along the right lines regarding disease control (off to unfold the Union Jack). Ken Hoare in Shropshire where that 'wet stuff' has changed to 'white stuff'. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 14:08:05 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: BeeCrofter@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Killing bees with mites MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I put a couple spoonfulls of sufur in the smoker and fill the hive with the fumes of burning sulfur and then tape over the opening. In a few hours all is quiet. Grim work no matter how it is done. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 13:02:32 -0800 Reply-To: JamesCBach Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: JamesCBach Subject: AFB disease control MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ken Hoare asks why I don't mention using a gas torch on AFB infected equipment. Here is my answer. Years ago (1981) Dr. Gochnaur told me that 99.5 percent of the AFB spores are in the cells of AFB residue, and that while spores may be found in propolis, and honey in the brood nest (depending on whether there is honey) there are probably too few to break down a colony to further symptoms. He mentioned, and I've seen it in the literature, that it takes about 50,000 spores to break a colony down to visual symptoms (obviously depending on the hygienic behavior of the bees). His ideas suggested to me that removing the frames with infected comb from the hive and scraping all other hive parts may sufficiently reduce the spore level in the hive below the economic threshold. In fact, I have picked up a lot of AFB hives over the years and removed the disease as I suggest and managed the hives for three years afterward without any prophylactic treatments and never seen the hives break down. As a state inspector I must ask myself if it is good public policy and enforcement practice to destroy $150.00 worth of bees and equipment for a few cells of AFB, or even a few frames with infected combs, if abatement can be accomplished in an effective manner and at lower cost. In law, requiring the burning of an infected hive is called a "taking" by government and there have been several comparable cases in law enforcement that raise a serious question whether states can reasonably require burning of a hive for a few cells of AFB. We deliberately removed certain language from our state statute to address this issue. Our goal is to consult with industry and define a more economic and practical approach to disease abatement. Of course if the beekeeper wants to burn the whole hive for one cell of AFB, that is their choice and loss. In the case of 40 year old equipment, burning may be cost effective. I don't try to save the frame containing the infected comb. It is not cost effective from a labor point of view. My suggestion of scraping the frames clean was intended to mean removing burr and bridge comb from the frame surfaces, and the box with a sharp hive tool. My personal opinion is that while beekeepers in the UK seem to remain satisfied with the level of government activity in controlling AFB in their hives, that much government power doesn't suit me. I am of the mind that, here in the US, it is the beekeeper's responsibility to abate disease and pests in their hives, for economic reasons and also to protect the interest of other beekeepers in the industry. Beekeeper's have granted authority to the states in the US to exercise certain powers in the form of efforts aimed at gaining beekeeper performance of disease abatement in the interest of the industry (i.e. state apiary statutes). I am also of the opinion that we in government should change our approach to enforcement, and disease abatement, based on the latest scientific data, legal cases and opinions, and the economic impact of our action on the industry. Having burned hives for 80 years or so does not necessarily justify continuing to do so. I have burned new five story hives for one cell of AFB because of the letter of the law. What a waste! What an unnecessary negative economic impact on a beginning beekeeper who only made the mistake of not knowing enough to recognize the disease before the inspector appeared in the apiary! That's my view. Thinking that new approaches to historic actions should be explored continuously. "Antiquity is not always authority, but may just be the old age of error," Charles Wesley. James C. Bach jcbach@yvn.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 22:16:22 +0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: christopher.slade@ZBEE.COM Organization: ZbeeNet computer networking for beekeepers Subject: Enviromentally friendly disease control CHRS: IBMPC 2 CODEPAGE: 850 MSGID: 240:244/186 7f739370 REPLY: 240:44/0 3d818ef9 PID: FDAPX/w 1.13 UnReg(32) Following on from what Ken has said, I think that the bee disease insurance is the key to effective AFB control. The insurance company is a non profit making company set up and run by beekeepers who are unsalaried. It means that beekeepers have no great financial incentive to break the (UK) law and conceal or treat American foul brood. We all know that antibiotic treatment can only prolong any outbreak of AFB and increase the chances of it spreading. Burning and compensation nips it in the bud. The effectiveness of this policy is demonstrated by the fact that the insurance premiums are so low - no, it is not subsidised. I am relieved to learn that Ken has not personally suffered from AFB: how about his bees? Chris Slade --- * Origin: Beenet Point (240:244/186) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 20:45:30 -0300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Martin Braunstein Subject: SAFB of just AFB..? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This discussion about SAFB caught me in the heaviest time of our queen and package bee season here in Central Argentina. I am sorry but I couldn't give my 2 cents before. The whole thing Mr. Dick described in his original message ignores and omits many important facts. I can understand it, perhaps Mr. Dick has never been to Argentina nor he has many sources of information. Conversely I have had the chance of working many years in the USA for commercial outfits (in California and Georgia) and have seen how AFB is treated and make a fair comparison with what is done here in Argentina. I could tell (but I won't do it in this list) the names of important American beekeepers who make a regular use of illegal drugs for the prevention and treatment of AFB. I am speaking of Sulphatiazole Sodium and Tylosin. In the first place, before starting a witchhunting, you should assess whether the first resistant strain wasn't created somewhere in North America, then spread and perhaps reintroduced into your territory. AFB was introduced and detected in Argentina during 1989. I said "introduced" because in fact AFB was not present in Argentina before 1989. You can check this assertion with any of our animal health authorities. Before 1989, AFB was something we only read about in bee journals and bee books. AFB was introduced in the central part of Buenos Aires province in a huge shipment (more than one thousand) of US queen bees (North American - not South American certainly). It is likely the candy of those queen cages was not made neither with HFCS nor with irradiated honey. It was a terrible mistake and an accident. I can't think of any beekeeper Canadian, American or whoever who deliberately makes queen cage candy with infected honey. Terramycin mixed with powdered sugar has been used for several years to treat and prevent EFB in Argentina before AFB was detected. With the arrival of AFB a few beekeepers (included myself) tried patties made up of Margarine and terramycin but something in the margarine made the bees refuse the patties so we gave up with them. Needless to say, Crisco is not available in Argentina. What I mean is that sublethal dosis were never used in Argentina as it was the case in the US with some patties. AFB was first introduced in Argentina in 1989 but I can't see how it became resistant so fast... If our AFB is indeed resistant -which I doubt- I am led to believe it was already a resistant strain when it reached our country. The researcher that seemingly demonstrated that we have a "resistant strain" has only done IN VITRO experiments. Not a single FIELD trial was made to corroborate her findings. At the same time many other researchers found strong evidence that there was not any AFB resistance to Terramycin in Argentina. It is a pity those researchers didn't have the same publicity as the one who said the opposite. When l told many large Argentine beekeepers of this absurd discussion about AFB or SAFB the only thing we could do was to laugh and also wonder whether Mr. Dick has any other kind of problem with Argentine honey that prompts him to discredit our fine and high quality honey. Mr. Dick: if you wish to impose a trade barrier or promote a quota system for our honey I won't stop you. But please, I urge you not to confuss the mind of people with pseudoscientific and misleading information. Mr. Dick: we do have varroa mite resistance to fluvalinate and we don't mind to admit it. If we had AFB resistance to Terramycin we wouldn't care to admit it either. Before blaming anybody I suggest you to be better informed. It is quite obvious Argentina has not become one of the largest honey exporting countries with a simultaneous spread of AFB resistant to Terramycin. Long before producing so much honey we would have lost most of our hives. Do you understand it? Martin Braunstein Breeder & Exporter of Queen Bees Criador y Exportador de Abejas Reinas Malka Cabaņa Apicola e-mail: malka@webnet.com.ar http://www.apiservices.com/malka/ Phone (54+11)4446-8350 Fax (54+221)421-4318 - ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 08:11:09 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: AFB disease control MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit JamesCBach wrote: > > Ken Hoare asks why I don't mention using a gas torch on AFB infected > equipment. Here is my answer. > > Years ago (1981) Dr. Gochnaur told me that 99.5 percent of the AFB spores > are in the cells of AFB residue, and that while spores may be found in > propolis, and honey in the brood nest (depending on whether there is honey) > there are probably too few to break down a colony to further symptoms. He > mentioned, and I've seen it in the literature, that it takes about 50,000 > spores to break a colony down to visual symptoms (obviously depending on the > hygienic behavior of the bees). According to ABC and XYZ of bee culture, 2500 Million! spores of AFB are in one dead pupa. .5% of that leaves 12.5 million spores outside the cell to infect the bees or 2500 times the number needed to break down the colony- from one dead pupa. Obviously there are other things at work here than just numbers. If we have exceptional beekeepers who manage properly, much of what Jim says is probably workable. My experience has been with beekeepers who let the disease progress to the point it spreads to the exceptional beekeepers hives, not once but many times and over several years as the bad one reuses equipment. With burning, the problem is eliminated in more ways than just the disease. Generally the bad beekeeper eventually gives up. It can wear the good one down too. Bill Truesdell Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 05:24:24 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Karl Dehning Subject: evaporating nectar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi bee liners We recently have experienced very hot weather in Cape Town and the bees have not produced to my expectation. I have heard the theory that the nectar evaporates from the blossoms before the bees can get to gather it. Has anyone info regarding the the effect of hot weather on honey production. Also the bees were not very protective when we reaped the golden rewards. Usually we have to remain in our veils untill about 200 meters away. That day we stripped a mere 5 or so meters away. Comments??? Kind Regards Karl Dehning __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 09:51:46 -0500 Reply-To: mpalmer@together.net Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Michael Palmer Organization: French Hill Apiaries Subject: Re: Treatments for bee diseases MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ken Hoare wrote: > > As for the method of controlling this disease, I firmly believe that for = > once us Brits have got it right. That might provoke a comment or two = > from the multiple hive American beekeeper, those that have hundreds, = > even thousands of hives. Not earning my living from bees I don't know if = > I would feel the same if I was in their shoes. But I do know that if I = > ever moved to any part of the world where terramycin was the method of = > control, with my 20 colonies I would say, "No thanks" and grab for the = > petrol can. > As one of those Multiple Hive Americans, let me make a comment. I have > a yard on the US/Canadian border(Vermont/Quebec). We almost never see any > AFB(a couple cases in 20 years). I use Terramycin dust in the spring. I ran > out of dust, and didn't medicate this yard. Oh well I thought, there's no > AFB around anyway. There aren't any other beekeepers located nearby. I don't > have AFB in my equipment. Guess what. My US bees snuck across the > international border, and brought home a good dose of foulbrood(like the > boys sneaking up to the strip clubs). I burned everything that showed the > disease, even though the inspector told me just to medicate the hell out of > 'em. With failing inspection programs here in the states(maybe in Canada > too, eh?), I see no way around my spring medication program. > > > The accident was reported to those that sit in plush leather = > chairs and suggested we use carbon tetracycline (think that is the = > correct name, was used for dry cleaning and in some fire extinguishers) = > to do the job. > The chemical is carbontetrachloride - C-Cl4 > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 12:05:17 -0800 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Richard Yarnell Subject: Re: Apistan Lifespan Comments: To: Ruary Rudd In-Reply-To: <199912181255.HAA19115@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Regarding storage: plastic film of all kinds will pass gas at some rate. For example, "Storage Bags" are far more permeable than "Freezer Bags." Even the rigid plastic containers, including food grade 4 and 5 gallon pails you can now buy, will exchange some gas. For that reason, we put things we want to store long term, in glass jars. It's worth the investment in gallon jars with screw type lids. We paint the outside of those we use for material which degrades in light. Why glass instead of cans? Cans rust, rarely seal as well as glass jars, and can be thoroughly cleaned and reused for something else. On Sat, 18 Dec 1999, Ruary Rudd wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Peter Borst > Sent: 17 December 1999 14:15 > Subject: Re: Apistan Lifespan > > >Their reasoning was that because the original packaging was not sealed in > > >an airtight package the fluvinate dried up and lost effectiveness. --------------- Richard Yarnell, SHAMBLES WORKSHOPS | No gimmick we try, no "scientific" Beavercreek, OR. Makers of fine | fix we attempt, will save our planet Wooden Canoes, The Stack(R) urban | until we reduce the population. Let's composter, fly tying benches | leave our kids a decent place to live. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 10:47:33 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Leen and Maria van den Berg Subject: Re: evaporating nectar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Karl Dehning wrote : > Hi bee liners > > We recently have experienced very hot weather in Cape > Town and the bees have not produced to my expectation. > I have heard the theory that the nectar evaporates > from the blossoms before the bees can get to gather > it. > > Has anyone info regarding the the effect of hot > weather on honey production. You don"t write whether it was dry as well. Last summer was very dry here in the Peace River Area in Alberta, Canada. We had bees in a beautiful field of clover that was still in full bloom when we supered for the third time, but not much honey to pull when we came to take those supers off. Leen and Maria van den Berg ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 14:30:11 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: Re: evaporating nectar Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Karl Dehning wrote: >We recently have experienced very hot weather in Cape >Town and the bees have not produced to my expectation. >I have heard the theory that the nectar evaporates >from the blossoms before the bees can get to gather >it. Yes, that can happen --- particularly if warm weather occurs during a drought. We normally have a manzanita flow in January here. In drought years, though, the blossoms may actually dry up after yielding no nectar. A tap of a blossom cluster into the palm of a hand reveals the presence or absence of nectar. We are now approaching the halfway mark in our rainy season, with just over an inch of rain so far. If this continues, we can expect no manzanita flow in this area. Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 963-8508 (home phone) 967 Garcia Road (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 **************************************************************************** ******* * * "The history of physics is the history of giving up cherished ideas." * * Andrew Strominger, Harvard physicist (1999) * **************************************************************************** ******* ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 12:34:07 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "Smart, Billy Y" Subject: Re: Treatments for bee diseases MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > Ted Fischer writes "I have seen bees treated with petrol (gasoline), and = > > - petrol (gasoline) is extremely dangerous to ignite, and serious = > burns may > result." > Has anyone considered using diesel oil instead of gasoline(petrol)? Diesel doesn't evaporate as rapidly as gasoline and as a result doesn't flash when ignited. I use it when burning brush on my farm for this reason. Diesel also contains a lot more energy, ounce-for-ounce, than does gasoline and is better for getting fires started on wet wood. Billy Smart ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 22:28:08 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ken Hoare Subject: AFB disease control MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gentlemen Sorry to come back to AFB, its just that I have a particular interest in bee diseases (and queen rearing, swarm control, gentle bees etc etc. Honey, horrible sticky stuff, will leave that to you) and think I am a better beekeeper than chemist - many have corrected me regarding the chemical that was used for dry cleaning purposes, "The chemical is carbontetrachloride - C-Cl4", copied from Michael Palmer's mail so you can now blame him if it is wrong. Thank you Michael and all. First a promotion. American Foul Brood was found locally at the end of the 1999 season, and the colonies were destroyed. The beekeeper is a member of Ludlow & District Beekeepers' Association of which I am Secretary. I have pushed hard to ensure that the business side of our Annual General Meeting on 5 February 2000 will quickly be dispensed with, and we will then receive an illustrated talk by Mr Robin Hall, the Regional Bee Inspector, on Foul Brood Recognition. HOPEFULLY sealed samples will be available to inspect. ANY beekeeper within easy travelling distance of Shropshire should not miss the opportunity to attend this presentation, to be able to observe the signs and symptoms as they appear in the comb is such a valuable tool when working one's own colonies. Its free admission (raffle pays for the hall hire) and anyone wanting further details can contact me at ludlowbe@freenetname.co.uk Earlier this morning I downloaded messages from James Bach and Martin Braunstein which appear to be in opposition to each other. James suggests that scraping frames clean is probably sufficient to remove the 50,000 spores needed to re-infect a colony. I have no doubt that this number of spores could probably be contained on a pinhead. Martin states that he believes AFB was imported into Argentina in the candy used to ship a consignment of queens. A lot of pinheads in the small amount of candy used but it proves to me the insidious nature of this disease, just cannot be treated anything other than treacherous. Consequently I will strictly promote and adhere to the UK doctrine of destroying bees and comb, sterilising what is left with the gas torch and (for my own colonies) avoid the antibiotics like the plague. May I ask James if I would be correct in thinking that my bees already have AFB and EFB, together with many of the other bee diseases, are they all endemic in my hives, just needing something to push them over the edge? That something might be beekeeper induced stress as in the case of Nosema (or in my own case, I believe in the early days of Varroa, that was the agent). Could the mite also be the cause of the breakdown of natural immunity to major bee diseases like AFB and EFB? Ken Hoare in Shropshire (where that white stuff gets deeper, and deeper, and ....) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 18:59:11 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pollinator@AOL.COM Subject: Re: evaporating nectar Comments: cc: honeybush_99@yahoo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 99-12-20 08:51:08 EST, honeybush_99@YAHOO.COM (Karl Dehning) wrote: << We recently have experienced very hot weather in Cape Town and the bees have not produced to my expectation. I have heard the theory that the nectar evaporates from the blossoms before the bees can get to gather it. Has anyone info regarding the the effect of hot weather on honey production. >> Has it also been dry and windy? I would tend to think it more likely that the nectar is not being produced in the first place, though I would allow the possibility of some evaporation. Usually heat and drought go together around here, and I think that stressed plants may show a more or less normal looking bloom without significant nectar production. This past summer here (South Carolina) was extremely hot and dry, with very poor nectar sources. Interestingly the best bees I had were on irrigated canteloupes and squash, crops that I don't consider good nectar producers. These crops produced enough to keep the bees from dwindling during the heat, and some of them actually produced a super of honey. Also the bees become stressed particularly if they don't have shade and lots of close fresh water. They may spend all their energies seeking out water and bringing it back for cooling. <> When it's 100 degrees F, my bees could be worked naked. They just look at you, and say, "Whew, it's hot!" I've heard that's not true of the afrobees, but I think the ones we refer to, originated in central Africa, not south Africa..... Dave Green SC USA The Pollination Home Page http://www.pollinator.com The Pollination Scene http://members.aol.com/pollinator/polpage1.html Jan's Sweetness and Light Shop on the Internet (honey & beeswax candles) http://members.aol.com/SweetnessL/ Pollinator Y2K calendar: http://members.aol.com/PotGold/calendar.htm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 05:28:45 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Della Cortiglia Paolo Subject: how to kill bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have seen and read on these page, many methods to kill bees affected by deseas. I found that an easy way is to close firmly the entrance door ( in the night or raining day ). >From the syrup hole distributor I put in the hive one half glass of Bleach ( the clorine that your wife use for clothes and home cleaning) and half glass of liquid Ammonia (your wife use for home cleaning, very common here in Europe ). This mixture is harmfull owig to poisoning gasses produced. Once Closed the hole , in few minutes, all bees will die. To kill a bees family is always a failure but necessay it may be, the cheapes and safer way is always welcome. Merry Xmast and happy new millenium to all beekeepers. Paolo Hives ( Italy ) ---------------------------------------------------------------- Get your free email from AltaVista at http://altavista.iname.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 13:15:58 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Ross Rounds MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anyone out there in Canada, Mexico, or the US who has at least 350 first quality Ross Round(tm) sections for sale? Buyer needs several thousand. If interested, please contact me by private email or at 518-370-4989 between 9:30 AM and 3:00 PM EST. Lloyd Lloyd Spear, Owner, Ross Rounds, Inc. The finest in comb honey production. www.rossrounds.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 14:32:26 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Midnitebee Subject: Dr. Ferdinand Ruzicka/ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greetings! Dr. Ferdinand Ruzicka has informed us about his English "speaking" web = site. Most interesting reading about Apidology "Honey Bee Viruses and Varroa = jacobsoni" http://www.geocities.com/drruzicka/index.html Happy Holidays! Herb/Norma Holly-B Apiary P.O. Box 26 Wells,Maine 04090-0026 Rare and Old Beekeeping Books http://www.cybertours.com/%7Emidnitebee/html/books.html Beekeeping Site http://www.cybertours.com/~midnitebee Stony Critters Maine's First Rock Painting Site http://pages.ivillage.com/wh/stonycritters/index.html "an educated consumer is YOUR best customer" =20 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 13:01:14 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pollinator@AOL.COM Subject: Re: how to kill bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 12/21/99 6:05:29 AM Pacific Standard Time, a1b2c3@INAME.COM writes: << From the syrup hole distributor I put in the hive one half glass of Bleach ( the clorine that your wife use for clothes and home cleaning) and half glass of liquid Ammonia (your wife use for home cleaning, very common here in Europe ). This mixture is harmfull owig to poisoning gasses produced. Once Closed the hole , in few minutes, all bees will die. >> Be careful! That's a good way to also kill yourself. It has been done. Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Home Page: http://www.pollinator.com Unique Y2K gifts for your pollination customers, and gardening friends: http://members.aol.com/PotGold/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 09:45:57 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: how to kill bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit So far the only really safe way to kill bees is the dry ice method. Carbon Tet is a carcinogen. Clorine gas is released with ammonia and bleach. But if you touch the dry ice.... So maybe the safest way to kill bees is to give them to another beekeeper. Bill T Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 16:42:43 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Adrian Wenner Subject: How to kill bees Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Bill Truesdell wrote: >So far the only really safe way to kill bees is the dry ice method. Carbon >Tet is a carcinogen. Clorine gas is released with ammonia and bleach. A question: Will chlorine gas kill AFB spores? Adrian Adrian M. Wenner (805) 963-8508 (home phone) 967 Garcia Road (805) 893-8062 (UCSB FAX) Santa Barbara, CA 93106 **************************************************************************** ******* * * "The history of physics is the history of giving up cherished ideas." * * Andrew Strominger, Harvard physicist (1999) * **************************************************************************** *******