From MAILER-DAEMON Sun Feb 13 07:13:03 2000 Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by luna.oit.unc.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA08357 for ; Sun, 13 Feb 2000 07:13:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from listserv.albany.edu (listserv.albany.edu [169.226.1.24]) by listserv.albany.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02343 for ; Sun, 13 Feb 2000 07:13:02 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200002131213.HAA02343@listserv.albany.edu> Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 07:13:02 -0500 From: "L-Soft list server at University at Albany (1.8d)" Subject: File: "BEE-L LOG9912E" To: adamf@METALAB.UNC.EDU Content-Length: 51605 Lines: 1105 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 03:44:52 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: "James C. Guppenberger" Subject: Hive designs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Does anyone know if there are any certain types of wood that is toxic to bees, besides pressure treated wood? I mean I was thinking of fooling with some more out of the ordinary woods for hive and super construction. Maybe I can get a little moth protection or varrora protection mildly from some of the more aromatic woods. Well at least I might have some pretty hives if all else fails! Chris Guppenberger "When I talk about my honey...... its my bees....not my mean wife" ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 05:02:07 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: how to kill bees In-Reply-To: <199912231417.JAA22399@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > ... said that "I put in the hive one half glass of Bleach > and half glass of liquid Ammonia"...Be VERY careful doing that. > Personally you'd never catch me mixing that combination together. Here's a quote from http://www.i-help.com/vol1no1.htm The following information appeared recently in a newspaper article from a Philadelphia paper. A man who tried to unclog his toilet by mixing household chemicals died when he was overcome by toxic gases. In addition, two city fire-rescue paramedics who went to his aid also had to be hospitalized, though they were not seriously hurt. In an effort to unclog a second-floor toilet, the man had mixed household bleach, household ammonia and a drain cleaner. The combination released toxic gases, including chlorine gas and possibly phosgene gas, according to fire officials. This tragic case is just one of a many that occur each year involving people who unknowingly mix common household chemicals in ways they were never intended to be used. Used by themselves, and according to proper directions, most of these chemicals are harmless and quite useful. When mixed, however, they enter into chemical reactions that can be dangerous. The case mentioned above is one of the most common. Many liquid household bleaches contain the element, chlorine. In its pure form chlorine (Cl2) is an extremely toxic gas. In bleach, however, it is combined with other chemicals in a very weak solution - a hypochlorite solution. The composition varies, depending on the manufacturer's formula. Likewise household ammonia is not the pure chemical, ammonia (NH3), but a mixture with other chemicals, and in a weak solution. When the bleach and household ammonia are inadvertently combined, however, the chlorine molecule may be released and forms chlorine gas. If this occurs in a small, poorly ventilated place, the results can be deadly. The topic of killing bees comes up from time to time and has been dealt with quite thoroughly in the archives. A search at http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Bee-l.htm will add quite a bit of perspective to the recent comments. There are only a few safe and approved methods to kill bees, but there are many methods that are not safe or approved. Some methods are simply ineffective, some are dangerous, and some may contaminate the bee equipment so that it is unfit for further use. Some may poison anyone who consumes honey produced on that equipment in the future. Compounds that are applied to the interiors of beehives are controlled by laws and regulations in most civilized places -- for very good reasons. The long term effects of placing anything in contact with combs may not be very obvious, but may be serious for bees in the future or humans that come into contact with them or their products. One of the things that worries me the most about buying honey or hive products, particularly from farmers' markets or bazaars, is that they may have originated from some creative amateur who regards his beehives as a playground, not a food production site. The fumes of burning sulphur are traditional for killing bees on combs. Although I don't know if there is any official approval, I think that sulphur fumes are generally considered safe for a food environment. Not sure. Soapy water is effective, although I am not sure I want soap in the hive. Shaking the bees out before killing them makes a lot of sense if there is any risk of applying an unapproved substance to the combs. Always consult your local authorities before trying ANYthing you read about on the 'Net. In Canada, as previously pointed out, calcium cyanide is AFAIK still approved, however one needs to be certified in Alberta as an applicator. This is a simple procedure, I believe -- I think I am still certified AFAIK, although it is years since I tried to kill a hive of bees. Nowadays, we are mostly concerned with keeping them alive. allen ----- See if your questions have been answered in over a decade of discussions. BEE-L archives & more: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Bee-l.htm Search sci.agriculture.beekeeping at http://www.deja.com/ or visit http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee to access both on the same page. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 08:08:12 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Bill Truesdell Subject: Re: how to kill bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Allen Dick wrote: > One of the things that worries me the most about buying honey or hive products, > particularly from farmers' markets or bazaars, is that they may have originated > from some creative amateur who regards his beehives as a playground, not a food > production site. But they could promote the honey as safe, since they chlorinate it just like cities do the water supply. And, if they could add fluoride.... Bill Truesdell Bath, ME ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 07:12:15 -0700 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Allen Dick Subject: Re: SAFB of just AFB..? In-Reply-To: <199912200005.TAA19900@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I appreciate Martin's perspective on this question. He is in a position to add some facts that we are so far lacking in this discussion. --- > The whole thing Mr. Dick described in his original message > ignores and omits many important facts. I can understand it, > perhaps Mr. Dick has never been to Argentina nor he has many > sources of information. Good guess. I have never been to Argentina, nor do I expect that I ever will go there. I hope that travelling there is not necessary for getting an understanding of the facts of matter. As for sources of information, one can never have enough. The quality of sources is always a question too, since some people have been known to lie or omit important facts that they have at hand. I personally *am* lacking good information on the question of SAFB, and that is why I originally wrote. I brought up the topic and gave everything I had in hopes that others would do the same and we could get a better understanding. So far we still have limited information. I am glad that you have joined in this discussion and hope you can add more perspective. >From what I can tell *no one* has a good understanding of it and that is precisely the point. We do not know where we go from here. > ... American beekeepers who make a regular use > of illegal drugs for the prevention and treatment of AFB. I am > speaking of Sulphatiazole Sodium and Tylosin. That is a very interesting topic, and may have a bearing on the current AFB situation. A bit more information would be very useful, particularly in regards the use of tylosin. > In the first place, before starting a witchhunting, Hey, no witch hunts or finger pointing, okay? I have *specifically* said that a witch hunt would serve *no* useful purpose, but that it IS important to understand what is going on and who is involved in what way. Hiding the truth does a lot of harm in the long run. Pointing fingers is not productive, but identifying causes and sources is. If untreatable AFB is being shipped around the world in honey, then maybe the authorities should be inspecting international or even internal shipments for AFB (SAFB?) spores. > you should assess whether the first resistant strain wasn't created > somewhere in North America, then spread and perhaps reintroduced > into your territory. This may be possible, but the actual source is not of that much importance other than for understanding how it came about. We need to know how to deal with it. I merely suggested that we call this SAFB because it was discovered first in South America. AFB apparently came from Europe, but is called American Foul Brood, so it would seem proper that, if SAFB came from North America, we should call it South American Foul Brood (SAFB). (This whole matter was, and is, meant to be taken with a bit of humour). > AFB was introduced and detected in Argentina during 1989. I said > "introduced" because in fact AFB was not present in Argentina > before 1989... > AFB was introduced in the central part of Buenos Aires province > in a huge shipment (more than one thousand) of US queen bees > (North American - not South American certainly)... > AFB was first introduced in Argentina in 1989 but I can't see how > it became resistant so fast... If our AFB is indeed > resistant -which I doubt- I am led to believe it was already a > resistant strain when it reached our country. > The researcher that seemingly demonstrated that we have a > "resistant strain" has only done IN VITRO experiments. Not a > single FIELD trial was made to corroborate her findings. At the > same time many other researchers found strong evidence that there > was not any AFB resistance to Terramycin in Argentina. It is a > pity those researchers didn't have the same publicity as the one > who said the opposite. I'll say! That is pretty interesting. I'd like to hear some more about this from other sources. From this I understand that you are saying that there is NO known oxytetracycline resistant AFB in Argentinean operations? We do know that there is oxytetracycline resistant AFB in Canada and the US. If this is the case, then I have leaned some of what I set out to learn, but owe Argentina an apology. I still like the name SAFB, though, even if the SAFB was only in vitro. > When l told many large Argentine beekeepers of this absurd > discussion about AFB or SAFB the only thing we could do was to > laugh and also wonder whether Mr. Dick has any other kind of > problem with Argentine honey that prompts him to discredit our > fine and high quality honey. Well, this, I am afraid, is not the case. It appears I'm not the only one speculating here. The point is to learn the truth of the matter, determine if there is a danger to beekeeping worldwide, and what to do. FWIW, I personally don't rely on honey for much income. I am currently involved in pollination an produce very little honey. Honey is more of a nuisance than a boon. And, for that matter, I am a Canadian. Canada, like Argentina, is an exporting country. Canada apparently has SAFB, so if there were to be restrictions, we would be subject to them, as would the USA. There are other reasons besides self-interest for examining issues. I think this matter has to be above partisanship. I think if the honey trade is a threat to domestic stocks in any country, then it should be examined before being accepted and spread around inside or outside countries. Presence of significant levels of AFB spores is not that expensive or hard to ascertain. I believe that New Zealand and perhaps Australia have some restrictions on honey imports for these phytosanitary reasons. I hope someone will verify this and perhaps expand on it. If you read my posts, (available by searching at http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Bee-l.htm) you will find that I am interested in, and sometimes argue both sides of, any issue. Although we are locked into a drug treatment regime due to our location, other ways of dealing with AFB are of great interest and deserving of respect. As long as drugs work and are available, the distribution of AFB contaminated honey is of little interest. However, in areas where drugs are not used, some controls must be made over distribution of contaminated honey or disease is a certainty. We in North America are counting on new drugs to allow us to continue to medicate in dealing with AFB. It would be nice to get off his merry-go-round, but there is little hope unless the whole continent does so. I have received some private correspondence recently describing first hand successful use of some management techniques that experience seems to have taught us cannot work here. Nonetheless, they are being used in a similar environment, so maybe we have missed something. We must examine them again. > Mr. Dick: if you wish to impose a trade barrier or promote a > quota system for our honey I won't stop you. But please, I urge > you not to confuse the mind of people with > pseudoscientific and misleading information. Hmmmm. You are the first and only to suggest a quota system or trade barriers in this discussion. I *have* only suggested that honey from suspected trouble areas be screened for potential for causing contagious and untreatable disease, and then controlled if appropriate. If you have no SAFB, then I don't care who buys your honey. I am simply interested in getting to the bottom of this whole matter before we all have untreatable SAFB with no economically feasible exit. I think it needs wider discussion and I am sure a lot of other things will be said, and argued, and corrected before the matter is settled, so please do not take offence. > It is quite obvious Argentina has not become one of the largest > honey exporting countries with a simultaneous spread of AFB > resistant to Terramycin. Long before producing so much honey we > would have lost most of our hives. Do you understand it? Yup. I sure do and this is something I was wondering about. I'm still wondering. We had an Argentine beekeeper with 4,000 colonies up to Alberta as a feature speaker at our ABA convention and we thought we'd learn a lot. Unfortunately, it turned out that he said that he had never been stung and was just a desk jockey. I'm sorry to say that he didn't turn out to be much of a speaker, either, and I was unable to learn much from him except that the Argentine climate is quite agreeable compared to Alberta and that the people who do the real beekeeping in Argentina apparently get about $250 US per month as pay (along with some small bonuses). That's about 1/7th of what I am paying in Canada. I do understand that with such low wages like that one could afford to make a lot of mistakes. Maybe we should have invited you, Martin. I'm sure we would have gotten our money's worth. Thanks for your comments and I hope -- as always -- you have some more input. allen ----- See if your questions have been answered in over a decade of discussions. BEE-L archives & more: http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee/Bee-l.htm Search sci.agriculture.beekeeping at http://www.deja.com/ or visit http://www.internode.net/HoneyBee to access both on the same page. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 09:38:31 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: William Morong Subject: Crazy Italian Cordovans Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Yesterday morning it was 10F, still, and sunny when a bee flew over my head. It seemed mighty cold for flying, so I went to the hives to investigate. All colonies but one were behaving themselves, peeking out from between the frames. The Italian Cordovans, however, were in a dither, hanging around the upper entrance expelling drones, and flying. Their flights were high and distant, like scouting flights. This did not seem right, so I got a prybar, broke loose the bottom board from the stand, and hefted the hive. They had gone through well over 100# of honey in three months. They sounded like there were a million of them. Having been warned by my mentor that Italian Cordovans would eat their honey before New Years and turn it into bees, I had left a division board feeder under the shavings box, which I filled, and they gluttonously attacked. They all went inside, quieted down, and haven't come out since. This morning is the same, and they're "quiet" but their rushing noise of a quiet colony is quite loud. Since it is quite warm under the shavings, I'm planning to insert a big 5 gallon feeder today. I'm told they'll drink a gallon of heavy syrup a week until the red maple bloom, and then they'll be so huge they'll want to swarm very early. This colony got so huge last season I had to split them twice. When I let them raise one queen from other brood, they were great nurses. If they survive, I'll put some brood more suitable for central Maine than sunny Italy into next Spring's split (splits?). I'm curious about others' experiences with these crazy animals, and what additional things I might do to help them survive. And how many ovaries DO their queens have? Bill Morong ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 11:37:42 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Pollinator@AOL.COM Subject: Bumblebee list has moved MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Some of the members of this list may be interested in another bee list, which deals with bumblebees. As the commercial use of bumblebees for pollination grows, this area of discussion will also grow. There are many bumblebee-related issues that also overlap to honeybees, such as the crossover of the new afrobeetle parasite, which has been in recent discussion. This is generally an academic list, and not near as active as Bee List. There are other mailing lists of bees and insects, and I'll be glad to point the way to anyone who is interested. Chris Plowright at the University of Ottowa has recently retired as listowner, and the new listowner is David W. Inouye of the University of Maryland. Here are the appropriate directions for use of this list: To subscribe, send the message to LISTSERV@umdd.umd.edu sub bombus-l To delete your subscription, send the message to LISTSERV@umdd.umd.edu signoff bombus-l To get a list of available archives, send the message index bombus-l Dave Green Hemingway, SC USA The Pollination Home Page: http://www.pollinator.com Unique Y2K gifts for your pollination customers, and gardening friends: http://members.aol.com/PotGold/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 14:57:29 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Scott Moser Subject: Cordovan Italians MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Bill and all, I have one hive of Cordovan, that I truly love. They are quite gentle, and that distinct coloring is what I liked best about them. I went out yesterday and checked hives, including that one. Here in St. Louis, it was 45 degrees. This hive is in the sun, but no real activity. I lifted the 15 pound tray of hard candy off, and saw that they were deep in the hive. They hadnt begun working on the candy yet. I checked another yard, and under the same weather conditions, I was greeted by a few bees from a hive of Italians that I have there. The hive that they were flying from had already eaten a hole out of the candy the size of a tennis ball. No other hives, in any other yards, had even touched the candy yet! I personally believe it is just differences from hive to hive. I tend to discount blanket statements about one type of bee over the next. Prejudice and folklore tend to keep these ideas going. If we believed all we do about bees, no one would keep Carniolans because some say they swarm so bad. In fact, those that I know who have them love them, and say that they swarm no more than any other bee. Good luck with them! Have a wonderful and Happy New Year! Sincerely, Scott " I believe that beekeeping mirrors life. One must endure a few stings to reach the final sweet reward." S. Moser ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 18:09:16 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: William Morong Subject: Re: Cordovan Italians Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Scott, I must agree with you about loving them. These bees are total sweethearts. In summer, if they crawl up my pants they just cluster on my shorts, and I've often taken them back from the house loaded with clean honey after changing clothes. They were running low on what I gave them yesterday by noon today. It was 15F with a nasty NW breeze, but it wasn't going to get better, so my wife and I headed down with a huge feeder and gallons of heavy syrup spiked with clean honey to advertise it by smell. I filled the feeder, Merri lifted the shavings box, and within 5 seconds gallons of food were in the hive. Hardly a bee flew, though there were thousands on top and they were warm. They seem to know who feeds them. I caught a glimpse of the packed frames, which would have been an impressive sight in early summer. The huge mass of bees extends down at least two boxes where I can see them packed between the frames through the upper entrance. Once dinner was served they abandoned the entrance and a load buzz began as they gluttonously attacked the feeder. I've got over 200# of sugar and 30# of bee honey to spike it, so they can eat to their hearts content. These bees make no honey, just loads of bees. Twice this season they got so huge that I reluctantly had to split them, but they sure are good nurses and raised me a corker of a Carniolan queen from some brood. They can't be pried off brood for examination. I'm trying to keep them alive and well until it is possible to split them in the Spring before they go nuts from being crowded and swarm. I have bees of all the usual races, and some that were feral. They're all very nice, and some are better for one job, some better for another. These are unusually prolific, and there are good uses for that trait. However, if they weren't pets it would be hard to justify what I'm doing. If they survive, I think I'll bring them into a cool room in a big (huge?) observation hive for next winter where it will be easier to pamper them and I can watch them suck down the syrup. As far as enduring stings, I have difficulty getting enough stings from 16 colonies to help my arthritis. My bees just don't like to sting me, and I may have to go to a fellow beekeeper to get that done. Wishing you and your bees the best, Bill Morong ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 13:04:56 -0600 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Dan McFeeley Subject: Journal Addresses Needed Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Would anyone have the addresses for the following journals? I'm interested in submitting a manuscript for publication. Bee World Journal of Apicultural Research Journal of Economic Entomolgy Thanks in advance! <><><><><><><><><><> <><><><><><><><> Dan McFeeley mcfeeley@keynet.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 23:56:41 +0100 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Jorn Johanesson Subject: Sv: Re: how to kill bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: Allen Dick Til: BEE-L@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU Dato: 29. december 1999 13:10 Emne: Re: how to kill bees >In Canada, as previously pointed out, calcium cyanide is AFAIK still approved, >however one needs to be certified in Alberta as an applicator. This is a simple >procedure, I believe -- I think I am still certified AFAIK, although it is years >since I tried to kill a hive of bees. Well as far as I heard at Apimondia, Cyanied is not available in Canada any Longer! If they need some for research the Researcher have to turn to the beekeepers :-) But I heard from Trevor that he had plenty of it left, enough for a hundred Yers use, and he is killing all hees production hives every Year. about 3000. families. But anyway, why kill the bees, when there are other ways to handle it. Here in Denmark we only kill bees if it is not possible to combine those with stronger hives. And we only killl bees in a AFB situation. By the way the naming of the Foulbroood as American or European is due to, that it was first official reported in those parts of the world. And if we kill them, we use gasoline, and then destroye the equitment afterwards. Best regards Jorn Johanesson EDBi = multilingual Beekeeping software since 1987 http://apimo.dk (USA) apimo@post4.tele.dk Jorn_Johanesson@apimo.dk ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 08:56:09 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: George Richtmeyer Subject: Re: how to kill bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I sell Honey at Farmer,s Market & most of all the people who sell at farmer market are state inspected I have a state license & have a state inspector at my place once a month . George's Apiary George Richtmeyer Owner Noble Ok. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 21:24:18 +1300 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ron Law Subject: Re: Journal Addresses Needed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bee World Dr Pamela Munn Editor, Bee World 18 North Road Cardiff CF1 3DY United Kingdom Fax: (+44) 1222 665522 E.mail: munnpa@cardiff.ac.uk Dan McFeeley wrote: > Would anyone have the addresses for the following journals? > I'm interested in submitting a manuscript for publication. > > Bee World Goto http://www.cardiff.ac.uk/ibra/bwgdline.html Dr Pamela Munn Editor, Bee World 18 North Road Cardiff CF1 3DY United Kingdom Fax: (+44) 1222 665522 E.mail: munnpa@cardiff.ac.uk > > Journal of Apicultural Research Go to http://www.cardiff.ac.uk/ibra/jar.html Editor, Journal of Apicultural Research Honey Bee Breeding, Genetics and Physiology Laboratory 1157 Ben Hur Road Baton Rouge Louisiana 70820 United States of America Fax: (+1) 504-766 9212 E.mail: lbeaman@asrr.arsusda.gov > > Journal of Economic Entomolgy ?? > > > Thanks in advance! > > <><><><><><><><><><> > <><><><><><><><> > Dan McFeeley > mcfeeley@keynet.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 11:56:09 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Lloyd Spear Subject: Strains of bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In discussing traits of different lines of honeybees, Scott Moser says "I personally believe it is just differences from hive to hive. I tend to discount blanket statements about one type of bee over the next." I guess my thought is that it is slightly more complicated than just differences from hive to hive. The different species do, in fact, have some general characteristics. Thus, Carnolians do tend to swarm more than others (because they maintain a different brood nest), and also tend to totally cease brood production during the winter. Italians do tend to rob more and also will often maintain some brood production during the peak of winter. Africanized bees do tend to be far more aggressive than others, etc. (I am deliberately not using the proper Latin names in recognition of the fact that most, if not all, of these species have been crossbred here in the US.) However, the degree to which bees have been and are being crossbred in North America, combined with the extensive specialized breeding and selection that has produced lines such as New World Carnolians, means that Scott is also correct in his observation that "blanket statements" are inappropriate. Beekeepers do well to identify which characteristics are important to them, and then search out queen breeders that are selecting for those traits. Novices, who do not yet have the ability to identify important characteristics for their location will do well to join a local bee club and inquire which are most important in their area. Finally, many experts are advocating that more beekeepers make their own selections from their own stock and are pointing out the advantages of such selective breeding. Fortunately, many, many honeybee characteristics are controlled by genes and improved bees can easily be developed. (The opposite is also true. If selection is not carefully controlled by good observations and records, undesirable characteristics can quickly develop.) Those wishing to learn more about making their own selections and doing some "backyard queen breeding" may be interested in Marla Spivak's Successful Queen Rearing. The booklet sells for around $15 and is available from most US dealers. Lloyd Lloyd Spear, Owner, Ross Rounds, Inc. The finest in comb honey production. www.rossrounds.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 12:53:33 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Peter Borst Subject: Re: killing bees In-Reply-To: <199912300503.AAA15933@listserv.albany.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" RE: "But anyway, why kill the bees, when there are other ways to handle it." REPLY: The original post was an inquiry on how to get rid of mite-infested hives that don't respond to Apistan. Obviously, combining these bees with other hives would be unacceptable. Also, many people wish to rid themselves of very aggressive hives, especially in areas where the Africanized bees are found. Keeping bees alive is of course our main interest, but this may involve killing some colonies, when the need arises. To let mite infested hives die out is foolish, because the mites probably drift. I appreciated the anecdote "A man who tried to unclog his toilet by mixing household chemicals died when he was overcome by toxic gases." I think this is very important thing to know. PB ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 20:50:07 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: RASpiek@AOL.COM Subject: Dec pollen? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is this strange? I had about 6 frames of honey in the house to eat on this winter. Wax moths got into it. I put it out side to freeze them out but I left it out and it has turned warm. My bees are about a quarter mile away but they found the honey and it was covered with bees today. That's ok because I am worried about them having enough stores for the winter. We have had an extreem drought and since June, they have not made much honey so I am letting them have this. I am also feeding 2 to 1 syrup. Now what is strange is that I saw bees coming into the hive with their pollen sacks full of bright red pollen. What could this be? Pollen on Dec.30? Richard ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 07:40:52 -0000 Reply-To: Ruary Rudd Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Ruary Rudd Organization: Westgate, waterville Subject: Re: Dec pollen? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: 31 December 1999 01:50 Subject: Dec pollen? > Now what is strange is that I saw bees coming into the hive with their pollen > sacks full of bright red pollen. What could this be? > Pollen on Dec.30? > Richard > Without knowing where you live it is very hard to say definitively but, It might be Broom, (Furze in Irish parlance) or gorse various species of which are in flower at different times the genus thus flowering throughout the year. Ruary Rudd ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 11:33:37 +0200 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rimantas Zujus Subject: Gabon or Apistan Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-4" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Beefriends Recently there were many messages devoted to Apistan effectiveness. Last three seasons we are offered to use new chemical for Varroa Jacobsoni treatment. This is a product of Chek Republic named Gabon PA 92. My beefriend and I tried Gabon strips first in 1998. The mites fell down like tree leaves in late autumn. I noticed many brown drops in the entrances of my 3 beehives the same evening. On the second day since the treatment we looked through a colony of my beefriend. We were astonished seeing a long brown pile not less than 5mm height situated along of one side walls (parallel to comb surface). One could think we never treated our bees before. The reality is that we used Apistan strips a few years in success. This autumn we used Gabon again. Neither my friend nor me noticed any Varroa mites in beehive entrances since treatment started. We were puzzled. Later in the meeting of Kaunas Beekeeper Society we were informed about the mite situation in Lithuania this year. The statistics is that Varroa mite level this year is very low. It seems the main reason was the drought and very high temperature (30-35 C / 86-95 F) in Lithuania and the surrounding countries that continued almost two months last summer. There is known a way to treat Varroa mites by heating air inside a beehive. I'd like to give you some Gabon treatment experience described by a President of "Lithuania's Beekeepers Union" Habil. Dr. Jonas Balzekas published in "Lithuania's Beekeeper" Nr. 21. Here are some statements. "In 1994-1998 there was investigated the Gabon PA 92 effectiveness for Varroa mites in field bee colonies. The Apistan strip is more expensive (as 8 to 2 Lt), the effectiveness is similar, the amount of acting medicine is much higher (as 470 to 1) and it penetrates into wax and honey, mites get used to treatment. There wasn't noticed the Gabon effectiveness decrease treating the same colonies a few years in success. After 25 day treatment with 2 Gabon strips per colony in August about 100 Varroa mites left in a 2 kg bee colony and the bees were infected with mites less than 0,5%. If the neighboring colonies were treated at the same time the Gabon strip effectiveness was 0,09+-0.02%, and for Apistan 0,14+-0.02%. Data evaluated for 1994 - 1998 year period for various distant colonies." Best wishes for the year 2000 to all beekeepers. I'd like to apologize my friends in the List. I lost my computer memory almost a year before and their e-mail addresses as well. Sorry. Sincerely Rimantas 55 N, 24 E http://rizujus.lei.lt e-mail : zujus@isag.lei.lt ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 06:40:58 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Thom Bradley Subject: Re: Dec pollen? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There really is lots of stuff that bloom in the winter. It's just that we don't see it. In my area, maple trees bloom in February, which is the month we have our coldest temps. There always seems to be enough warm days for them to go get it. It is tough to speculate on what your particular pollen may be because you haven't included your location. Sometime in the past we all agreed to identifying location in some way in our posts and we have gotten away from it. I think it's a good idea to start it up again. Thom Bradley Chesapeake, VA, USA RASpiek@AOL.COM wrote: > > Is this strange? > > Now what is strange is that I saw bees coming into the hive with their pollen > sacks full of bright red pollen. What could this be? > Pollen on Dec.30? > Richard ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 07:06:17 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Aaron Morris Subject: Re: Gabon or Apistan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi Rimantas and all, > Last three seasons we are offered to use new chemical for Varroa Jacobsoni > treatment. This is a product of Chek Republic named Gabon PA 92. Can you tell us more about Gabon PA 92? What is the active ingredient? Who is the manufacturer? Is it available outside of the Chek Republic? Happy New Year! Aaron Morris - thinking the new millennium has been hyped to death! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 12:17:45 +0000 Reply-To: maria_gerault@ip.pt Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Comments: Authenticated sender is From: maria_gerault@IP.PT Subject: Is there any turkish beekeeper subscribed to this list? In-Reply-To: <199912311150.GAA14769@listserv.albany.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Happy New Year, ladies and gentlemen! We have been trying to contact turkish beekepers. If you can help us with that, we would be extremely thankful. Thanks in advance, Jean Pierre & Maria, from Portugal ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 14:21:50 -0000 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: Rex Boys Subject: BEESOUNDS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A friend told me that my name and some of my ideas had appeared on = this site so I thought I'd better join up but all I can find is a single = item back in 1996. Can anyone guide me to something more recent? To introduce myself; I live in England on the borders of = Worcestershire and Gloucestershire, not far from where Shakespeare's = Avon joins the River Severn. Having taken my first swarm at the age of = 16(in 1939), I did no more beekeeping till retiring in 1978. After wartime service as an RAF radar mechanic, I became an engineer = at the BBC where, in the 1960's, my regular lunchtime companion in the = Broadcasting House canteen was the late Eddie Woods. He was the = beekeeper who went around poking a microphone into hives listening to, = recording and analysing various sounds made by the bees. One sound that fascinated him was queen piping which is quite a rare = phenomenon. I reckon that statistically an average beekeeper with two = hives can expect to hear it once every 20 years. Fortunately, Eddie had = access to over 1,000 hives. He also identified some sounds that enabled him to design an = instrument that gave him up to 3 weeks notice of swarms. Called an = 'Apidictor', in never caught on; it was last made in 1964 and only about = 300 were sold worldwide. Nevertheless, many are still in use and on = average I get about 2 calls a year for technical data from beekeepers = who are desperate to get their's repaired. Eddie's most significant discovery was the way in which the bee = generates its sounds. Most people would assume that the buzzing noise = comes from the wings beating the air in the manner of a loudspeaker = diaphragm. Because he understood loudspeakers, Eddie realised that the = volume of sound was too great to be generated in this way so he looked = for another source. This is where you need to brush up your physics. A bee does not breathe through its mouth but through a total of 16 = tubes(tracheae) distributed along the thorax and abdomen. Air goes in = and out through holes called spiracles and what Eddie discovered was = that just inside each spiracle is a valve that opens and closes to = interrupt the airflow in exactly the same way that a trumpet player = vibrates his lips to produce a musical note. In the case of a worker bee in flight, the vibration frequency is = 250 times a second which produces a note close to middle B on the piano. = You can easily check this out if you can persuade a bee to fly around = your piano - or any other musical instrument you can play! Even more remarkable, though, was Eddie's discovery that the = spiracle valves are controlled, through the nervous system, by the wing = motors. The significance of this is that the note produced by the = spiracles is exactly the same as the much quieter one that comes from = the wings, anyway. For many years I wondered why the great designer in the sky made = such a complicated arrangement and why He considered it necessary for a = bee to buzz when many similar insects fly around in silence; those hover = flies that pretend to be bees, for example. Now I think I have the = answer but it is going to stretch any non-technical brains out there. Sound consists of alternate pulses of compression and rarefaction = that travel through the air and push the eardrum in and out. The ear = measures the frequency and sends a signal to the brain e.g.,"I am being = vibrated 440 times a second". The brain replies, "Thank-you. I = recognise that as the musical note middle A". (Actually it's a lot more = complicated than this.) In the case of the bee, the spiracle sound is synchronised with the = wing beats and it would be a simple matter to phase things so that the = compression pulse coincided with the downbeat. A wing pushing down on = compressed air would generate more lift. On the upbeat, the rarefaction = pulse would have no effect because the wing is feathered. Hence, the = fact that the buzzing is audible is irrelevant, its purpose is to help = the bee to fly. If this theory is correct, for one thing it resolves the paradox = that back in the 1930's a group of mathematicians calculated that, in = theory, a bee should not be able to fly; obviously they did not know = about the contribution of the buzz to its aerodynamics. I am also = encouraged by the observation that insects that buzz generally have = small wings compared to their body size. My real problem is that when I lecture to beekeepers on the subject, = their eyes glaze over and I have long since concluded that the sort of = people who are interested in living creatures are not technically minded = and vice versa. I have written it all up in a booklet that is sold too = cheaply by Northern Bee Books who are listed in = sci.agriculture.beekeepingFAQ What I would really like to see before I die is an enthusiastic = graduate getting down to some research that proves or disproves my = theory. That is quite enough for this contribution. If it does not = produce too many glazed eyeballs, I'll do another piece about the = Apidictor and what future it might have. May I wish you all successful beekeeping in the year 2000 or, if you = have an old computer, 1900. Rex Boys =20 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 07:34:27 EST Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: RASpiek@AOL.COM Subject: Dec. Pollen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry folks. I live in Ky. USA ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 09:33:11 -0500 Reply-To: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: William Morong Subject: Bee helmets, hats Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" In reviewing 1999 season notes, an item on the nuisance of bee helmets came up. Firstly, as noted in the archives, bees can get through the vents on plastic helmets, and did. Furthermore, plastic helmets are clunky and uncomfortable. I was about to purchase a woven helmet when a fellow starting beekeeping joined me on my rounds. His woven helmet exhibited another nuisance that plastic helmets also have. The crowns are rounded, so as one works the elastic in the top causes the veil to ascend, which is in constant need of being pulled down. Instead I bought an imported straw cowboy hat for $1, stitched around the brim, trimmed its diameter, and stitched on a binding. This hat was much better than my bee helmet, though it has a slight taper which causes some ascension of the veil. This hat is now worn out. Searching for a proper straw hat, I came upon a picture of an Amish man with the perfect straw hat. This hat has a relatively narrow and absolutely flat brim. The crown is a fairly short section of a cylinder with a flat top, perhaps 2" high, rising perpendicularly from the brim. Probably the Amish use these hats every summer. Does anyone know how I might obtain such a hat for my 2000 season bee clothing? Bill Morong ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 16:37:18 +0100 Reply-To: olda.vancata@quicknet.se Sender: Informed Discussion of Beekeeping Issues and Bee Biology From: olda.vancata@QUICKNET.SE Subject: Re: Gabon or Apistan In-Reply-To: <13392775805009@LISTSERV.ALBANY.EDU> > > Last three seasons we are offered to use new chemical for Varroa Jacobsoni > > treatment. This is a product of Chek Republic named Gabon PA 92. > Can you tell us more about Gabon PA 92? What is the active ingredient? Who > is the manufacturer? Is it available outside of the Chek Republic? Take a look at : http://www.beedol.cz/beedolan.html Happy New Year! \vov