Article 21955 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!howland.erols.net!portc02.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: jajwuth@aol.com (Jajwuth) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: imported comb Lines: 4 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder07.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 08 Nov 1999 13:34:28 GMT Organization: AOL Canada http://www.aol.ca X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler Message-ID: <19991108083428.19580.00000674@ngol02.aol.com> Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21955 Does anybody know if there is import restrictions on bulk comb?. Seems to me that is something that they may want to prohibit. Thanks Al Article 21956 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!faatcrl.faa.gov!hammer.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.cis.ohio-state.edu!nntp.sei.cmu.edu!nntp.club.cc.cmu.edu!pitt.edu!portc02.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: bobpursley@aol.com (Bob Pursley) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: apistran (sp?) strip question Lines: 15 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder05.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 08 Nov 1999 13:36:03 GMT References: <3826667D.104E7E74@greensboro.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler Message-ID: <19991108083603.21990.00000170@ngol02.aol.com> Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21956 In article <3826667D.104E7E74@greensboro.com>, "R. Foust" writes: > >My dad put those apistan (sp?) strips into his hive about two months >ago.and hasn't gotten around to taking them out... will it harm the bees >if left in too long. I was told not more than 45 days, but not why. > > Why cant folks read labels and follow them? Leaving it in at low strength greatly increases the probablility of breeding drug resistant mites. If fact, it guarantees it. Then the rest of us suffer forever. Article 21957 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!faatcrl.faa.gov!hammer.uoregon.edu!news-feed.fnsi.net!netnews.com!newspeer1.nac.net!news-FFM2.ecrc.net!news.mindspring.net!newsfeed.mindspring.net!firehose.mindspring.com!pool-207-205-212-158.dnvr.grid.net!user From: HiStretch@GoStretch.com (Charles "Stretch" Ledford) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 08:44:46 -0600 Organization: STRETCH PHOTOGRAPHY Lines: 13 Message-ID: References: <19991107162421.11855.00001904@ng-cj1.aol.com> <3825FDE8.5916@midwest.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: cf.cd.d4.9e X-Server-Date: 8 Nov 1999 15:45:06 GMT Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21957 In article <3825FDE8.5916@midwest.net>, lithar@midwest.net wrote: > http://www.pitt.edu/~hslst7/honey/honey.html > This guy can't be serious, right? Surely that write-up is tongue-in-cheek... -- Charles "Stretch" Ledford STRETCH PHOTOGRAPHY "North America and the Entire World" http://www.GoStretch.com Article 21958 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!faatcrl.faa.gov!hammer.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.axxsys.net!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: AL Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 12:11:18 -0600 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 19 Message-ID: <38271246.69A0@midwest.net> References: <19991107162421.11855.00001904@ng-cj1.aol.com> <3825FDE8.5916@midwest.net> Reply-To: lithar@midwest.net X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21958 Charles Stretch Ledford wrote: > > In article <3825FDE8.5916@midwest.net>, lithar@midwest.net wrote: > > > http://www.pitt.edu/~hslst7/honey/honey.html > > > > This guy can't be serious, right? Surely that write-up is tongue-in-cheek... > > -- > Charles "Stretch" Ledford Who knows? Whoever it is, they went to a lot of trouble to support that position. Reading it makes me want to run out and eat a *big* ole corn fed beef steak just for spite. AL Article 21959 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: From: "Ladislao A. Guerra, Ph.D." Subject: Vermont beekeepers Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 13:07:43 -0500 Lines: 3 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Message-ID: Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!cpmsnbbsa04!cpmsnbbsa05 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21959 Is there a beekeepers organization in the state of Vermont? Article 21960 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.vt.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!feeder.qis.net!nntp.abs.net!remarQ-easT!remarQ.com!supernews.com!news.mindspring.net!firehose.mindspring.com!pool-207-205-212-158.dnvr.grid.net!user From: HiStretch@GoStretch.com (Charles "Stretch" Ledford) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 11:41:13 -0600 Organization: STRETCH PHOTOGRAPHY Lines: 15 Message-ID: References: <19991107162421.11855.00001904@ng-cj1.aol.com> <3825FDE8.5916@midwest.net> <38271246.69A0@midwest.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: cf.cd.d4.9e X-Server-Date: 8 Nov 1999 18:39:07 GMT Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21960 In article <38271246.69A0@midwest.net>, lithar@midwest.net wrote: > Who knows? Whoever it is, they went to a lot of trouble to support that > position. Reading it makes me want to run out and eat a *big* ole corn > fed beef steak just for spite. Spite, hell... I'm a card carrying member of PETA... "People Eating Tasty Animals"... I don't need an excuse! ;) -- Charles "Stretch" Ledford STRETCH PHOTOGRAPHY "North America and the Entire World" http://www.GoStretch.com Article 21961 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail From: smalc@connect.ie Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: bees in barn owl nestboxes Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 19:10:21 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy. Lines: 12 Message-ID: <80776p$dlc$1@nnrp1.deja.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 194.106.128.134 X-Article-Creation-Date: Mon Nov 08 19:10:21 1999 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.01 [en] (Win16; I) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x25.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 194.106.128.134 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDsmalchris Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21961 I'm looking for assistance from bee-keepers and bee researchers. We have a number of nest boxes constructed for barn owls in Asia and in Africa, but bees are becoming a common problem, taking over nest boxes, so that the barn owls do not use them. Nest boxes are attached to trees or are constructed on poles about 14ft (4m) aboove the ground. In Africa, the species is Apis mellifica. Can anyone suggest how to keep bees from nest boxes? Thanks, Chris Smal Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. Article 21962 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!news.eecis.udel.edu!netnews.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news.monmouth.com!not-for-mail From: sanford@monmouth.com Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 13:21:48 -0500 Organization: Monmouth Internet Lines: 19 Message-ID: <382714BC.619A@monmouth.com> References: <19991107162421.11855.00001904@ng-cj1.aol.com> <3825FDE8.5916@midwest.net> Reply-To: sanford@monmouth.com NNTP-Posting-Host: sl-tc-ppp142.monmouth.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; U) Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21962 Charles Stretch Ledford wrote: > > In article <3825FDE8.5916@midwest.net>, lithar@midwest.net wrote: > > > http://www.pitt.edu/~hslst7/honey/honey.html > > > > This guy can't be serious, right? Surely that write-up is tongue-in-cheek... > > -- > Charles "Stretch" Ledford > STRETCH PHOTOGRAPHY > "North America and the Entire World" > http://www.GoStretch.com I don't think so Stretch-and he is a she. College educated and obviously an authority on how all of us should choose to live, think etc...so many people out there just don't think like I do ;-) Shari Article 21963 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!faatcrl.faa.gov!hammer.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!iad-peer.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!ord-read.news.verio.net.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Ellen Anglin" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping References: <7vua53$1h06$1@node17.cwnet.frontiernet.net> <19991105204820.10772.00001171@ng-cr1.aol.com> Subject: Re: Evil Hive Beetle/ Biological control Lines: 28 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 09:23:21 -0800 NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.69.69.151 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verio.net X-Trace: ord-read.news.verio.net 942088924 209.69.69.151 (Mon, 08 Nov 1999 19:22:04 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 19:22:04 GMT Organization: Verio Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21963 I can't comment on the hive beetle, But I have a LOT of assasin bugs in my yard- These are a bug in the order Hemiptera that is a predator. (Same order as Stink bugs, but these are smaller, and colored black and red.) I assume that they are feeding on earwigs and other nasties in my flower beds. Well anyway- I built a stand with a roof to store my supers on- it's floor is 1/4 inch hardware cloth to keep out mice, but otherwise open. The assasin bugs have been crawling all over the empty supers- I'll be suprised if I find any wax moth damage next spring. These assasins are voracious predators, and I imagine the wax moth larvae are quite tasty. Anyone else have experience with these predators? Ellen Anglin JMitc1014 wrote in message news:19991105204820.10772.00001171@ng-cr1.aol.com... > Is this Gold Start stuff chemical? > Has anybody tried predator bugs, nematodes or bacteria against the SHB? How > about Bacillus thruingiensis (Bt), the stuff they use against gypsy moths and > tomato hornworms? How about that stuff they sell in the stores for Japanese > beetles called Doom or Grub Attack? > Article 21964 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.vt.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!netnews.com!feeder.via.net!newshub1.home.com!news.home.com!news1.sshe1.sk.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Hugh Tait" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping References: <19991107162421.11855.00001904@ng-cj1.aol.com> <19991107183315.08811.00000205@ngol01.aol.com> Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Lines: 49 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 19:59:06 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.65.109.115 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news1.sshe1.sk.home.com 942091146 24.65.109.115 (Mon, 08 Nov 1999 11:59:06 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 11:59:06 PST Organization: @Home Network Canada Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21964 > > The practise of gasing/killing bees in Northern Climates rather than > overwintering them has been considered to show lack of proper respect for bees. > I am not sure but I think this was mentioned in Sue Hubble's book. > Al As a general rule, I know no one who gasses bees now, it is a carry over from when beekeepers up here used to buy packages each spring and gas each fall. The existence of varroa resulted in a closed border, in the mid 80's, at which point beekeepers learned to overwinter bees, ( which was previously thought very difficult if not impossible) There are few if any who would choose to gas bees now. It was always a sad thing. We can thank varroa for producing better beekeepers, improving management skills, and a larger knowledge base about what can and cannot be done for bees. Vegans have formed an idea that they would like to promote, and pick and choose facts to support their concepts, disregarding truths and avoiding full disclosure of the facts. It displays a lot of elements that are found in cults. I have read several internet "lectures" and books and found enough holes in their thinking that they dismiss their own arguments. To follow through and dictate to others a personal philosophy, one must temper it with the compromises the individual has to make themselves. Credibility is hard to maintain when you try to dictate that others live by your pholosophy, yet the individual ( vegans) are still living in modern dwellings, and are exploiting/enslaving the worlds resources with the rest of society. I myself will start entertaining their ideas as valid, when they achieve the following. a) open their eyes to all the facts b) adopt the concept that the world is composed of shades of grey not black and white c) start offering solutions as opposed to critisisms d) and develope a knowledge of what they are critisising That being said, it is a very cool world, that has all these different thinking minds and viewpoints, regardless of how much they piss me off. hugh Boschman hughes Apiaries Article 21965 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.mindspring.net.MISMATCH!news.mindspring.net!firehose.mindspring.com!pool-207-205-212-158.dnvr.grid.net!user From: HiStretch@GoStretch.com (Charles "Stretch" Ledford) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 11:40:25 -0600 Organization: STRETCH PHOTOGRAPHY Lines: 23 Message-ID: References: <19991107162421.11855.00001904@ng-cj1.aol.com> <3825FDE8.5916@midwest.net> <382714BC.619A@monmouth.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: cf.cd.d4.9e X-Server-Date: 8 Nov 1999 18:38:19 GMT Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21965 In article <382714BC.619A@monmouth.com>, sanford@monmouth.com wrote: > I don't think so Stretch-and he is a she. College educated and > obviously an authority on how all of us should choose to live, think > etc...so many people out there just don't think like I do ;-) > Shari No, Shari, what I mean is... If it weren't for kept bees we'd have one helluva problem with pollination due to, among other things, the effects of diseases and pesticides on feral colonies. It's my understanding that it's only because of beekeepers that honey bees survive at all in North America. Seems like the writer is swallowing a camel while choking on a mite. -- Charles "Stretch" Ledford STRETCH PHOTOGRAPHY "North America and the Entire World" http://www.GoStretch.com Article 21966 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!newsfeed.enteract.com!news.enteract.com!not-for-mail From: "Barry Birkey" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: apistran (sp?) strip question Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 18:02:12 -0600 Organization: The Birkey Group, Inc. Lines: 27 Message-ID: <807o9a$ns2$1@eve.enteract.com> References: <3826667D.104E7E74@greensboro.com> <19991108083603.21990.00000170@ngol02.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.80.34.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21966 Yea, why can't folks read the label? I know the label states to leave the strips in for a minimum of 45 days but can be left in up to about 54(?) days. I don't have a packet in front of me but it's somewhere around that time. Strips should come out now I suspect. -Barry ---------- In article <19991108083603.21990.00000170@ngol02.aol.com>, bobpursley@aol.com (Bob Pursley) wrote: > In article <3826667D.104E7E74@greensboro.com>, "R. Foust" > writes: > >> >>My dad put those apistan (sp?) strips into his hive about two months >>ago.and hasn't gotten around to taking them out... will it harm the bees >>if left in too long. I was told not more than 45 days, but not why. >> >> > > Why cant folks read labels and follow them? > > Leaving it in at low strength greatly increases the probablility of breeding > drug resistant mites. If fact, it guarantees it. Then the rest of us suffer > forever. Article 21967 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: AL Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 17:59:30 -0600 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 17 Message-ID: <382763E2.708E@midwest.net> References: <19991107162421.11855.00001904@ng-cj1.aol.com> <3825FDE8.5916@midwest.net> <38271246.69A0@midwest.net> Reply-To: lithar@midwest.net X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21967 Charles Stretch Ledford wrote: > > In article <38271246.69A0@midwest.net>, lithar@midwest.net wrote: > > > Who knows? Whoever it is, they went to a lot of trouble to support that > > position. Reading it makes me want to run out and eat a *big* ole corn > > fed beef steak just for spite. > > Spite, hell... I'm a card carrying member of PETA... "People Eating Tasty > Animals"... I don't need an excuse! ;) Got any bumper stickers? AL Article 21968 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!portc04.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: jajwuth@aol.com (Jajwuth) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Lines: 5 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 09 Nov 1999 02:22:28 GMT References: Organization: AOL Canada http://www.aol.ca X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler Message-ID: <19991108212228.24118.00000058@ngol08.aol.com> Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21968 I looked at the website that this vegan has created. He seems to not mind so much top bar hives and free range honey. It is almost like the guy had that conclusion and subjectively set out to arrive at it. Al Article 21969 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!news.idt.net!peerfeed.news.psi.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!spamz.news.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: jajwuth@aol.com (Jajwuth) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: updates Lines: 11 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder05.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 09 Nov 1999 02:44:53 GMT References: <3825ce27_2@news.cybertours.com> Organization: AOL Canada http://www.aol.ca X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler Message-ID: <19991108214453.10782.00000054@ngol07.aol.com> Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21969 "Midnitebee" writes: >More photos of "exposed" honey colony:Location is Nepal >http://www.cybertours.com/%7Emidnitebee/html/raji.html > Got photos? Send to us and we will insert them on our web site. I like that picture. It's the kind of pictures I'm looking for in National Geographic etc. Thanks Al Article 21970 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!news.idt.net!peerfeed.news.psi.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!portc01.blue.cs.com!spamz.news.aol.com!audrey05.news.cs.com!not-for-mail From: texasdrone@cs.combees (Robert Williamson) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: apistran (sp?) strip question Lines: 13 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.cs.com X-Admin: news@cs.com Date: 09 Nov 1999 04:39:19 GMT References: <3826667D.104E7E74@greensboro.com> Organization: CompuServe (http://www.compuserve.com/) Message-ID: <19991108233919.16564.00003110@ng-fn1.news.cs.com> Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21970 >My dad put those apistan (sp?) strips into his hive about two months >ago.and hasn't gotten around to taking them out... will it harm the bees >if left in too long. I was told not more than 45 days, but not why. > One of the main reasons not to leave apistan in a hive for too long is that the fluvalinate degrades and becomes weaker thereby giving the mites a chance to develop an immunity to it. Kinda like a flu shot. Robert Williamson Southeast Texas Honey Co. P.O. Box 176 Vidor, Tx. 77670 " A simple and independent mind does not toil at the bidding of any prince" Article 21971 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed.frii.net!uunet!ffx.uu.net!news.infoave.net!news.infoave.net!not-for-mail From: Jerry Hathaway Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Best foundation? Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 22:52:53 -0600 Organization: Info Avenue Internet Services Lines: 18 Message-ID: <3827A8A5.522355E0@geneseo.net> Reply-To: hathaway@geneseo.net NNTP-Posting-Host: genppp49.geneseo.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: news3.infoave.net 942123229 25005 206.28.227.116 (9 Nov 1999 04:53:49 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news3.infoave.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 9 Nov 1999 04:53:49 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21971  

What is the best foundation for a hobby beekeeper to start with?  I have read that the plastics are
not well received by the bees. Is Duraguilt better received then Perma-dent? Or should I stick with
all wax foundation?  Any suggestions would be appreciated.

I will be starting my first hives in the spring and am enjoying getting ready.
 

      Thank you,
 
     Jerry Hathaway
     Geneseo, Illinois Article 21972 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!interpath.net!den-news-01.qwest.net!qwest!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news.idt.net!peerfeed.news.psi.net!jump.innerx.net!not-for-mail From: Charlie Kroeger Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Reply-To: ckrogrr@frankensteinface.com Message-ID: References: <19991107162421.11855.00001904@ng-cj1.aol.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 65 Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 23:16:06 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 38.31.250.79 X-Trace: jump.innerx.net 942124846 38.31.250.79 (Tue, 09 Nov 1999 00:20:46 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 00:20:46 EST Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21972 ShoersBabe says: >I have the world's dumbest question. After reading your question I've known some dumber ones than that, like a woman on a list having to do with wiccans ask: "what is cannabis?" which just goes to show that it's true what they say: there are aliens from other planets living among us. > I was asking the resident vegan uh ho..vegans, who appear to have their heart in the right place, but are nonetheless, resistant to discussion or the broader view, and so it's pointless to engage them in any subjects involving counterpoint. Like all fanatics, they're passionate believers with no patience. Unless you admire that and chime in, (this is true for all fanatics) there is nothing much you can say after someone says they're a "vegan" but look at your watch and clear out. > why she does not eat honey when it is the only truly cruelty-free food. Honey is not cruelty-free food if you accept a kind of Judeo Christian attempt to empathize with pain and suffering when it isn't happening to you. Lots of bees die when it comes to removing their honey. I would think a species of creature that had been on the planet as long as bees, would have figured out a way to do away with pain as we understand it. No one has been able to ask the bees what they think. Take a cabbage for instance, I'm sure Vegans eat cabbages and yet, have they ask themselves if a cabbage feels pain when it's cut off, untimely, from it's roots, or doesn't it even care? Take salt for instance, we're talking about crystalline life being possibly used against its will. If one decides that cruelty has occurred by the reaction of the creature, then bees are fighting and dying to defend their stores of honey. Bees have a rigid society run by the intricacies of a 100 million years of development; when the beekeeper arrives, by the division of labour within the hive, hundreds of bees react according to their job description. Those designated as guardians of the hive, will attack with all the ferocity of a regiment of vegans storming the walls of Iowa Beef Packers. As cruelty goes, that is, the recent understanding of that event, and or policy, or enjoyment, or however you see the concept, does not enter into the world of the bees as I see it, but is only in the minds of humans that attempt to define it in terms of their misplaced and possibly over developed sense of empathy for the world around them. We may then assume, no one knows, so it's just what you want to believe. >have now been asked to back up my assertation that it is, in fact, cruelty free. It's not cruelty free, but neither is having slums in a rich city or people living in drain pipes across from churches where fat christians meet on sunday, or having a job that pays a demeaning wage, or sitting through another celebrity interview or another success story on another television talk show, and I haven't even mentioned what's left of our global bio diversity or the state of the eco system on which we all depend. In short, there are a lot things out there to occupy your mind instead of backing up your asserted thoughts to vegans. >Chances of my making it back over to this newsgroup are small That's too bad Carolyn we need more dumb questions here. Get yourself a real dialup and then a newsreader. Leave your portal behind and enter the murky but lively world of usenet. Charlie Kroeger Article 21973 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!howland.erols.net!portc02.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: orangerose@aol.com (Orangerose) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Lines: 58 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder07.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 09 Nov 1999 07:03:10 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <19991109020310.10925.00002319@ng-cm1.aol.com> Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21973 Okay folks. Can't keep my mouth shut this time. I won't address individual statements, but commonalities I see in the comments on this thread. First--I have been a vegetarian for fifteen years. I was vegan for two of those years. I began as an animal rights activist (at fifteen!) but I am now mostly concerned with the ethics of supporting an industry that pollutes our environment so dramatically. That said, I do not preach vegetarianism as if it were religion; I make my own choices to live as I see fit. In response to the comments here: I am shocked and dismayed at the hostility and narrow-mindedness expressed here. Veg*nism is a dietary choice. Not all--not even most--veg*ns prosteletize their lifestyle. Most of them make choices based on their own sense of justice/ethics/morals. The decision to *not* eat honey comes from a decision to *not* benefit at the expense of another animal. Such vegans often do not even keep pets. Extreme? yes. Anything wrong with it? I doubt it. Not all veg*ns think that humans are a scourge on the earth. Only a few, very noisy veg*ns give this impression. Most want only to live in a way that reflects their great concern for animal life in it's natural, unmanipulated state. Most do not expect others to uphold the same standards. Next: The vegetables-are-alive-too argument. How many times do I have to hear this? It is not valid logic. Veg*ns are concerned with the treatment of _animals_. The (mis)treatment of plants has nothing to do with it and is merely a red herring to divert the argument. I have never been asked this question by someone who did not seem to feel that MY dietary/lifestyle choice somehow threatened theirs. Finally, I must make a comparison with veg*anism and religion. Moral/Ethical veg*ns make a lifestyle choice based on (duh) morals and ethics. Religious people, Christians for example, also make lifestyle choices based on a code of morals and ethics. I would put forth that prosteletizing Christians are just as annoying as prostelitizing veg*ns. Although I am not a Christian, I think of Christians as basically nice people who are trying to do the right thing in this world by living compassionately and with grace. Where I live (San Francisco) veg*ns probably outnumber Christians, and most people I know haven't actually known any Christians first-hand. These people are the ones first to say that Christians are sanctimonious, hypocritical, and overbearing (hmm...who's that at the door? The only Christian some of these folks have ever met.) Not a Christian, yet I am the first to defend Christians with all my heart and soul. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but when that opinion is based on misinformation and fear, I feel the need to interject. Most veg*ns are basically good people with good values and good intentions and a healthy respect for life and the natural world. The website in question seems to me to be written *for* vegans in a response to arguments within the vegan "community" about the use of honey. She does sound self-righteous and preachy. She does not represent every veg*n in the world, nor even a majority. She is just noisy enough to get alot of attention. Sincerely, Kelly ~hastily donning flame-proof undergarments~ Article 21974 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!news.netins.net!newshub.nntp.mr.net!news7.onvoy.net!not-for-mail From: "E. Rogers" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping References: <3826667D.104E7E74@greensboro.com> <19991108083603.21990.00000170@ngol02.aol.com> Subject: Re: apistran (sp?) strip question Lines: 43 Organization: news.starpoint.net X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 01:45:01 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.32.197.5 X-Complaints-To: abuse@onvoy.com X-Trace: news7.onvoy.net 942133806 209.32.197.5 (Tue, 09 Nov 1999 01:50:06 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 01:50:06 CST Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21974 Bob Pursley wrote in message <19991108083603.21990.00000170@ngol02.aol.com>... >In article <3826667D.104E7E74@greensboro.com>, "R. Foust" >writes: > > >Why cant folks read labels and follow them? > >Leaving it in at low strength greatly increases the probablility of breeding >drug resistant mites. If fact, it guarantees it. Then the rest of us suffer >forever. I disagree, that is all the beekeepers in this area of SW Minnesota have gone out of business using apistan. They put there trust in this product by paying their premium price. Most comercial beekeepers, I talked to personally, feel that some of the windfall profits should have gone into research for alturnative treatments. But no, the Apistan people just kept their profits. As a result beekeepers were left begging for a new treatment, and it looks like those beekeepers will be left paying high prices for those treatments. This tells me that the apistan people could give a rats a_ _ about the beekeeper who truly needs a cure for the varroa mite. I am one beekeeper that has not used apistan for the past 3 years and is 100% mite free. When I started with 25 colonies 3 years ago I threw the worthless apistan out and started looking for alturnative treatments. I now have over 100 colonies and very healthy bees. As I see it the only thing worse than the varroa mite on the bees, is the blood sucking chemical companies on the backs of hard working beekeepers that are trying to make a buck with bees. All this with the blessing of the federal government. As I keep increasing in size each year I do understand every dollar I keep from the blood suckers the more I will have for improvements or family life. Good luck with your mite problems or blood sucker problems. Elroy Article 21975 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!remarQ-easT!remarQ.com!supernews.com!cyclone-l3!cyclone-l3.usenetserver.com!news5.usenetserver.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: hamilton@pbssite.com (Dave Hamilton) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Message-ID: <38281842.693598578@news.usenetserver.com> References: <19991107162421.11855.00001904@ng-cj1.aol.com> <3825FDE8.5916@midwest.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Lines: 25 X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Complaints-To: admin@usenetserver.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 07:44:25 PST Organization: UseNet Server, Inc. http://www.usenetserver.com - Home of the fastest NNTP servers on the Net. Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 12:50:44 GMT Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21975 I always intended to go to Sue Colby's insemination class .. Glad I was saved from raping my queen due to my ignorant thinking I could improve on mother nature's choices Dave On Mon, 08 Nov 1999 08:44:46 -0600, HiStretch@GoStretch.com (Charles "Stretch" Ledford) wrote: >In article <3825FDE8.5916@midwest.net>, lithar@midwest.net wrote: > > >> http://www.pitt.edu/~hslst7/honey/honey.html >> > >This guy can't be serious, right? Surely that write-up is tongue-in-cheek... > >-- >Charles "Stretch" Ledford >STRETCH PHOTOGRAPHY >"North America and the Entire World" >http://www.GoStretch.com Article 21976 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!portc04.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: hk1beeman@aol.com (Hk1BeeMan) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Sandoz Lines: 8 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 09 Nov 1999 11:20:02 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <19991109062002.06955.00002352@ng-ff1.aol.com> Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21976 hehe noticed last night on the history chanel that the wonderful folks that brought us apistan are the same folks that brought us the wonder drug LSD. GO FIGURE...... Kevin Johnson, Big Johnson Beekeeping, Lillington NC Article 21977 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!portc04.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: jmitc1014@aol.com (JMitc1014) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Best foundation? Lines: 5 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder07.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 09 Nov 1999 12:58:06 GMT References: <3827A8A5.522355E0@geneseo.net> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <19991109075806.04211.00003303@ng-ff1.aol.com> Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21977 I started with almost all uncoated wax foundation (from Dadant, a beekeeping supplier). It was fine. However, I did use one box of Duragilt for a honey super. A few of the outside frames weren't drawn out for quite a while, then when the bees did start to draw them, they made drone comb. John Article 21978 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!howland.erols.net!portc02.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: harrisonrw@aol.com (HarrisonRW) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: apistran (sp?) strip question Lines: 10 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 09 Nov 1999 11:38:12 GMT References: <19991108083603.21990.00000170@ngol02.aol.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <19991109063812.01879.00002216@ng-ci1.aol.com> Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21978 >Why cant folks read labels and follow them? The problem is not always the person using the strips. Many bee supply companies are buying the Apistan strips in bulk and then just shipping the strips wraped in a palstic bag with no instructions as to their use. Ralph Harrison Milford CT Article 21979 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!remarQ-easT!remarQ.com!supernews.com!cyclone-l3!cyclone-l3.usenetserver.com!news5.usenetserver.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: hamilton@pbssite.com (Dave Hamilton) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Best foundation? Message-ID: <382818dd.693753890@news.usenetserver.com> References: <3827A8A5.522355E0@geneseo.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Lines: 59 X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Complaints-To: admin@usenetserver.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 07:59:13 PST Organization: UseNet Server, Inc. http://www.usenetserver.com - Home of the fastest NNTP servers on the Net. Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 13:05:33 GMT Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21979 Last year there was an article in ABJ which claim more hobbiests were discourage by Duraguilt than any other cause. About a week later, Nebraska had a beginner beekeeping class and I volunteered to help people assemble their first hives. In the beginning kit they got 10 crimp wire wax and 10 Duraguilt foundations. Another person helping was a long time beekeeper who also remarked about the poor choice for beginners of the Duraguilt. I went home and thought on this .. having already bought a case of Duraguilt and also a case of crimp wire, I made up 4 new hives each from nucs with 4 drawn frames. 2 hives had the remaining 15 frames ( and a division board feeder) of Duraguilt and 2 had the remaining 15 frames of crimp wire. During the first 2 weeks I recorded that it was true that the crimp wire was getting pulled faster. However by the third week there was no difference and within a month all hive bodies were fully pulled with feeding 1-1 every 5th day for the first 6 weeks. I also manipulated frames as I normally would moving them inward or rotating to get all pulled. I continued the experiment on these 4 hives with supers above the queen excluder. 2 hives got new foundation of Duraguilt and 2 hives got new crimp wire .. 10 frames per hive .. 3 supers per hive. It is my normal way to drip feed over the super foundation to get the ladies to move through the excluder .. this I did equally. Again by August 15th ( about the 12 the week now ) foundation was pulled equally as well. I continued to manipulate frames to get all pulled through out the flow and harvested September 15. Its is my humble unscientific opinion that Nebraska bees work Duraguil and crimp wire the same. Dave On Mon, 08 Nov 1999 22:52:53 -0600, Jerry Hathaway wrote: > >  > >

What is the best foundation for a hobby beekeeper to start with?  >I have read that the plastics are >
not well received by the bees. Is Duraguilt better received then Perma-dent? >Or should I stick with >
all wax foundation?  Any suggestions would be appreciated. > >

I will be starting my first hives in the spring and am enjoying getting >ready. >
  > >

      Thank you, >
  >
     Jerry Hathaway >
     Geneseo, Illinois > Article 21980 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!vonorlow.dialup.fu-berlin.DE!not-for-mail From: Melanie von Orlow Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: bombus honey Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 14:07:12 +0100 Organization: Freie Universitaet Berlin Lines: 18 Message-ID: <38281C80.F45843FD@chemie.fu-berlin.de> References: <19991027164913.09001.00001264@ngol01.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: vonorlow.dialup.fu-berlin.de (160.45.227.8) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 942152699 770414 160.45.227.8 (16 17 19) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW0321e (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21980 Hi, Al, I thought about it for the same reason. Even if it's more or less the same stuff it should be interesting for some people with a special taste for rare and expensive things. But harvesting bumble bee honey is a tideous work. It has to be performed by hand, using a syringe or a little spoon to scratch out the honey. And it's very hard to collect enough. You need also to feed up the hive afterwards as they keep only enough honey for 2 or 3 bad days. So you will need many hives for this rare stuff. Here, in germany, the law is also a hurdle - bumble bees are strictly protected by law and using them for commercial reasons like breeding them for pollination or honey production is not allowed...that's why it is done in the netherlands. BTW, it tastes good but not extraordinary... Melanie www.hymenoptera.de Article 21981 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!remarQ-easT!remarQ.com!supernews.com!news.mindspring.net!firehose.mindspring.com!pool-207-205-213-166.dnvr.grid.net!user From: HiStretch@GoStretch.com (Charles "Stretch" Ledford) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 07:56:02 -0600 Organization: STRETCH PHOTOGRAPHY Lines: 20 Message-ID: References: <19991107162421.11855.00001904@ng-cj1.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: cf.cd.d5.a6 X-Server-Date: 9 Nov 1999 14:54:00 GMT Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21981 In article , ckrogrr@frankensteinface.com wrote: > Bees have a rigid society run by the intricacies of a 100 million years > of development; when the beekeeper arrives, by the division of labour > within the hive, hundreds of bees react according to their job > description. Those designated as guardians of the hive, will attack > with all the ferocity of a regiment of vegans storming the walls of Iowa > Beef Packers. ROTFLMAO! Now THAT's funny! -- Charles "Stretch" Ledford STRETCH PHOTOGRAPHY "North America and the Entire World" http://www.GoStretch.com Article 21982 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.mindspring.net.MISMATCH!news.mindspring.net!newsfeed.mindspring.net!firehose.mindspring.com!pool-207-205-213-166.dnvr.grid.net!user From: HiStretch@GoStretch.com (Charles "Stretch" Ledford) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 08:00:50 -0600 Organization: STRETCH PHOTOGRAPHY Lines: 26 Message-ID: References: <19991109020310.10925.00002319@ng-cm1.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: cf.cd.d5.a6 X-Server-Date: 9 Nov 1999 14:58:49 GMT Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21982 Hi, Kelly... I, too, was a bit surprised at how much hostility was brought forth from our normally docile bunch of beekeepers when confronted with a vegan... I guess it's human nature to attack when provided with the kind of openings for attack that vegans seem to have... Anyway... In article <19991109020310.10925.00002319@ng-cm1.aol.com>, orangerose@aol.com (Orangerose) wrote: > all veg*ns think...Only a few, very noisy veg*ns ... Veg*ns are > concerned... a comparison with veg*anism and religion... prostelitizing veg*ns... Etc... What's with the asterisk? -- Charles "Stretch" Ledford STRETCH PHOTOGRAPHY "North America and the Entire World" http://www.GoStretch.com Article 21983 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!howland.erols.net!outgoing.news.rcn.net.MISMATCH!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail From: Steve Huston Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: apistran (sp?) strip question Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 11:30:22 -0500 Organization: Riverace Corporation Lines: 18 Message-ID: <38284C1E.6765BB15@riverace.com> References: <3826667D.104E7E74@greensboro.com> <19991108083603.21990.00000170@ngol02.aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: xJ45c+800x+bBY35LLlBf6nBQnFwSdsZSxmTVX82oOA= X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 9 Nov 1999 16:30:24 GMT X-Accept-Language: en X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; U) Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21983 "E. Rogers" wrote: > I am one beekeeper that has not used apistan for the past 3 years and is > 100% mite free. When I started with 25 colonies 3 years ago I threw the > worthless apistan out and started looking for alturnative treatments. I now > have over 100 colonies and very healthy bees. Could you please describe your treatment methods? I'd love to go without Apistan. Thanks, -Steve -- Steve Huston Riverace Corporation Email: shuston@riverace.com http://www.riverace.com Specializing in TCP/IP, CORBA, ACE (508) 541-9183, FAX 541-9185 Expertise to help your projects succeed We support ACE! Article 21984 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!woodbridge-rd.demon.co.uk!dave From: Dave Black Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 18:44:41 +0000 Organization: Woodbridge Message-ID: References: <19991109020310.10925.00002319@ng-cm1.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: woodbridge-rd.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: woodbridge-rd.demon.co.uk:194.222.228.123 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 942173269 nnrp-02:24786 NO-IDENT woodbridge-rd.demon.co.uk:194.222.228.123 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: Turnpike (16) Version 3.05 Lines: 25 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21984 In article <19991109020310.10925.00002319@ng-cm1.aol.com>, Orangerose writes >The website in question http://www.pitt.edu/~hslst7/honey/honey.html >seems to me to >be written *for* vegans in a response to arguments within the vegan "community" >about the use of honey. She does sound self-righteous and preachy. She does >not represent every veg*n in the world, nor even a majority. She is just noisy >enough to get alot of attention. Never-the-less, it is an excellent, well reseached lesson in web documents, and one which we (meat-eating bee-keeping persons) ought to be less dismissive of. Actually too many beekeepers here have been self- righteous and preachy. More respect (and a bookmark) is due. Yours, in fetching blue asbestos Dave Black Surrey, UK. http://www.guildford.ac.uk/beehive Article 21985 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!news.cis.ohio-state.edu!news.compuserve.com!news-master.compuserve.com!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: orangerose@aol.com (Orangerose) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Lines: 17 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder07.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 09 Nov 1999 19:08:31 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <19991109140831.26069.00000028@ng-bx1.aol.com> Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21985 >What's with the asterisk? Vegans--eat no animal products, including dairy, eggs, and maybe honey. Vegetarians--may eat eggs or dairy or some may even eat fish--though there is hot debate among vegetarians against fish-eaters calling themselves vegetarian. When talking about both groups on the Usenet, a convenient shorthand is "veg*ns" to include both sets of people who eat a non-animal-based diet. It's more inclusive. :-) Kelly Article 21986 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!faatcrl.faa.gov!hammer.uoregon.edu!news-feed.fnsi.net!news.idt.net!peerfeed.news.psi.net!jump.innerx.net!not-for-mail From: Charlie Kroeger Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: bombus honey Reply-To: ckrogrr@frankensteinface.com Message-ID: References: <19991027164913.09001.00001264@ngol01.aol.com> <38281C80.F45843FD@chemie.fu-berlin.de> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 27 Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 14:47:12 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 38.31.250.169 X-Trace: jump.innerx.net 942180716 38.31.250.169 (Tue, 09 Nov 1999 15:51:56 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 15:51:56 EST Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21986 Melanie said: >But harvesting bumble bee honey is a tideous work. Hummm, I never realized that Germans were the masters of understatement I thought that was only reserved for the British. Well, you are sort of cousins anyway. Just a thought, (and the ethical must now turn away) but why should it only be left up to the corporations to do what they like? Since in America conspicuous consumption is an important display to perform as a sign you've triumphed in the national obsession for success. By this need therefore products must be forthcoming to satisfy this demand. The Bombus goes to the same flowers as the Apis..so "small attractive 2 oz. bottles" with the label: Bumblebee Honey price $10 (USD) I don't think that's being greedy, I've got the bombus to show off if a question is raised. Sure beats the hell out of trying to keep them going year round for pollination. Charles Kroeger Head of marketing: The Bombus Corp. rare products division Article 21987 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!news.sgi.com!enews.sgi.com!decwrl!pa.dec.com!lead.zk3.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!not-for-mail From: Jim Moore Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: My Wife's Pissed Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 12:58:18 -0500 Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 4 Message-ID: <38270F3A.446B@gemgrp.enet.dec.com> References: <381DDDFA.D7DDDD19@bms.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: gemeun.zko.dec.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; OSF1 V4.0 alpha) Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21987 As suggested do the bulk cleanup with shovel or dust pan, then finish of with speedy-dri or cat litter used for cleaning up oil spills. This saves using watter and speading the problem. Article 21988 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!nntp-xfer.ncsu.edu!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!portc04.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: hk1beeman@aol.com (Hk1BeeMan) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Best foundation? Lines: 8 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder05.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 09 Nov 1999 08:31:36 GMT References: <3827A8A5.522355E0@geneseo.net> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <19991109033136.18198.00000124@ng-cs1.aol.com> Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21988 >Or should I stick with >all wax foundation?  Any yep, works fine Kevin Johnson, Big Johnson Beekeeping, Lillington NC Article 21989 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!feeder.qis.net!nntp.abs.net!attmtf!ip.att.net!wn4feed!worldnet.att.net!wnmaster1!not-for-mail From: "George Styer" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Best foundation? Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 14:25:37 -0800 Organization: Productive Solutions Lines: 157 Message-ID: <80a6v9$8v6$1@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net> References: <3827A8A5.522355E0@geneseo.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.72.43.31 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0090_01BF2ABE.4B047780" X-Trace: bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net 942186281 9190 12.72.43.31 (9 Nov 1999 22:24:41 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 9 Nov 1999 22:24:41 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21989 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0090_01BF2ABE.4B047780 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Of all the types of foundation that I have used, my least favorite is = Duragilt. Bees move wax around. If it is not introduced at the = appropriate time (i.e a flow on) the bees will chew off the wax from one = sheet to use on another frame. You are left with a sheet of plastic that = the bees will never draw out. This could be the reason for the = beekeepers comments. Best I have used is either Plasti-cell (snaps in a conventional wood = frame) or Pierco. I prefer Pierco since there is no frame to assemble. A = great thing when one has a real job and realizes another super needed to = be added yesterday. Another benefit of the plastic is that if the bees = botch some of it, just scrape it back to the plastic and they will = rebuild it. I have to say though that my experience is that it is the = most beautifully drawn frame you'll find. Wall-to-wall worker cells. I = had one hive that drew out 5 supers of 9 frames each this last summer, = so I wouldn't say that the bees are reluctant to draw it out. Any = foundation must be introduced under the RIGHT CONDITIONS. One word of warning about Pierco, it is probably not for you if you are = a habitual peeker. It can result in a lot of burr comb. I think this is = due to the thickness (or lack thereof) of the topbar. It is not a full = inch like the wood frames so the bees want to make the upper and lower = frames 1 long comb. I am going to do some experimenting in the spring to = see if I can eliminate this problem. But since I am not a peeker, but = really is not an issue with me. Wax is great but is labor intensive and expensive. It is largely a matter of personal preference. --=20 Geo Sacramento, in California's great Central Valley "Honey is sweet but the bee stings" gstyLer@worldnet.att.net To reply via e-mail get the "L" out of there Jerry Hathaway wrote in message = news:3827A8A5.522355E0@geneseo.net... =20 What is the best foundation for a hobby beekeeper to start with? I = have read that the plastics are=20 not well received by the bees. Is Duraguilt better received then = Perma-dent? Or should I stick with=20 all wax foundation? Any suggestions would be appreciated.=20 I will be starting my first hives in the spring and am enjoying = getting ready.=20 =20 Thank you,=20 =20 Jerry Hathaway=20 Geneseo, Illinois=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0090_01BF2ABE.4B047780 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Of all the types of foundation that I have used, my least favorite = is=20 Duragilt. Bees move wax around. If it is not introduced at the = appropriate time=20 (i.e a flow on) the bees will chew off the wax from one sheet to use on = another=20 frame. You are left with a sheet of plastic that the bees will never = draw out.=20 This could be the reason for the beekeepers comments.
 
Best I have used is either Plasti-cell (snaps in a conventional = wood frame)=20 or Pierco. I prefer Pierco since there is no frame to assemble. A = great=20 thing when one has a real job and realizes another super needed to be = added=20 yesterday. Another benefit of the plastic is that if the bees botch some = of it,=20 just scrape it back to the plastic and they will rebuild it. I have to = say=20 though that my experience is that it is the most beautifully drawn frame = you'll=20 find. Wall-to-wall worker cells. I had one hive that drew out 5 supers = of 9=20 frames each this last summer, so I wouldn't say that the bees are = reluctant to=20 draw it out. Any foundation must be introduced under the RIGHT = CONDITIONS.
 
One word of warning about Pierco, it is probably not for you if you = are a=20 habitual peeker. It can result in a lot of burr comb. I think this is = due to the=20 thickness (or lack thereof) of the topbar. It is not a full inch like = the wood=20 frames so the bees want to make the upper and lower frames 1 long comb. = I am=20 going to do some experimenting in the spring to see if I can eliminate = this=20 problem. But since I am not a peeker, but really is not an issue with = me.
 
Wax is great but is labor intensive and expensive.
 
It is largely a matter of personal preference.

--
Geo
Sacramento, in California's great Central=20 Valley
"Honey is sweet but the bee stings"
gstyLer@worldnet.att.net
= To reply=20 via e-mail get the "L" out of there
 
 
Jerry Hathaway <hathaway@geneseo.net> = wrote in=20 message news:3827A8A5.522355E0@genese= o.net...
 =20

What is the best foundation for a hobby beekeeper to start = with?  I=20 have read that the plastics are
not well received by the bees. Is=20 Duraguilt better received then Perma-dent? Or should I stick with =
all wax=20 foundation?  Any suggestions would be appreciated.=20

I will be starting my first hives in the spring and am enjoying = getting=20 ready.
 =20

      Thank you,
 =20
     Jerry Hathaway =
    =20 Geneseo, Illinois

------=_NextPart_000_0090_01BF2ABE.4B047780-- Article 21990 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mindspring.net!firehose.mindspring.com!not-for-mail From: Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 18:07:46 -0500 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 8 Message-ID: <80a9bi$vqq$1@nntp5.atl.mindspring.net> References: <19991107162421.11855.00001904@ng-cj1.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: d1.8a.c0.c5 X-Server-Date: 9 Nov 1999 23:05:22 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21990 My question is .....If we ate a Vagan would it be considered an act of cruelty ShoersBabe wrote in message <19991107162421.11855.00001904@ng-cj1.aol.com>... Article 21991 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!faatcrl.faa.gov!hammer.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.axxsys.net!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: AL Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 18:22:38 -0600 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 31 Message-ID: <3828BACD.454F@midwest.net> References: <19991109020310.10925.00002319@ng-cm1.aol.com> Reply-To: lithar@midwest.net X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21991 Dave Black wrote: > > In article <19991109020310.10925.00002319@ng-cm1.aol.com>, Orangerose > writes > > >The website in question > > http://www.pitt.edu/~hslst7/honey/honey.html > > >seems to me to > >be written *for* vegans in a response to arguments within the vegan "community" > >about the use of honey. She does sound self-righteous and preachy. She does > >not represent every veg*n in the world, nor even a majority. She is just noisy > >enough to get alot of attention. > > Never-the-less, it is an excellent, well reseached lesson in web > documents, and one which we (meat-eating bee-keeping persons) ought to > be less dismissive of. Actually too many beekeepers here have been self- > righteous and preachy. Aw comeon - who could pass up something like this??? http://www.greatfoodwholesale.com/consumer/products/grtfood/ACKERMAN/icons/AC99041-02L.jpg :) AL Article 21992 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: AL Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 18:30:23 -0600 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 17 Message-ID: <3828BC9F.44B3@midwest.net> References: <19991107162421.11855.00001904@ng-cj1.aol.com> <80a9bi$vqq$1@nntp5.atl.mindspring.net> Reply-To: lithar@midwest.net X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21992 rjanney@pipeline.com wrote: > > My question is .....If we ate a Vagan would it be considered an act of > cruelty > > ShoersBabe wrote in message > <19991107162421.11855.00001904@ng-cj1.aol.com>... Not if lightly seasoned, grilled, and served on a wild rice pilaf with a Ceasar salad and a tasty red wine. Those who recoil at the idea of alcohol could substitute a Big Red soda. BTW, I think its vegan - or veg*an if you want a wider choice of game. AL Article 21993 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!portc04.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: jeff1020@aol.comxxx (Jeff Reader) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Lines: 10 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 10 Nov 1999 00:53:23 GMT References: <19991109020310.10925.00002319@ng-cm1.aol.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <19991109195323.06151.00004156@ng-fa1.aol.com> Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21993 I think most of the problem is that although being vegetatin is a choice most people think it is because of cruility to animals. This is why the killing of plants is always brought up. If veg*ns don't want to here about killing plants they need to educate the rest of us that this is a choice for some other reason than cruility to animals because to me cruility is crulity and life is life. Putting one above the other is( except for survival) is a great travisity. Jeffery E Reader where did you get the undergarments No XXX in my E-mail Article 21994 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: "DP" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Best foundation? Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 20:19:48 -0500 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 72 Message-ID: References: <3827A8A5.522355E0@geneseo.net> <382818dd.693753890@news.usenetserver.com> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3612.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3612.1700 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21994 I would have to agree... Duraguilt and crimp wire are the same, you'll be safe choosing eather. Dave Hamilton wrote in message <382818dd.693753890@news.usenetserver.com>... >Last year there was an article in ABJ which claim more hobbiests were >discourage by Duraguilt than any other cause. About a week later, >Nebraska had a beginner beekeeping class and I volunteered to help >people assemble their first hives. In the beginning kit they got 10 >crimp wire wax and 10 Duraguilt foundations. > >Another person helping was a long time beekeeper who also remarked >about the poor choice for beginners of the Duraguilt. > >I went home and thought on this .. having already bought a case of >Duraguilt and also a case of crimp wire, I made up 4 new hives each >from nucs with 4 drawn frames. 2 hives had the remaining 15 frames ( >and a division board feeder) of Duraguilt and 2 had the remaining 15 >frames of crimp wire. > >During the first 2 weeks I recorded that it was true that the crimp >wire was getting pulled faster. However by the third week there was >no difference and within a month all hive bodies were fully pulled >with feeding 1-1 every 5th day for the first 6 weeks. I also >manipulated frames as I normally would moving them inward or rotating >to get all pulled. > >I continued the experiment on these 4 hives with supers above the >queen excluder. 2 hives got new foundation of Duraguilt and 2 hives >got new crimp wire .. 10 frames per hive .. 3 supers per hive. It is >my normal way to drip feed over the super foundation to get the ladies >to move through the excluder .. this I did equally. Again by August >15th ( about the 12 the week now ) foundation was pulled equally as >well. I continued to manipulate frames to get all pulled through out >the flow and harvested September 15. > >Its is my humble unscientific opinion that Nebraska bees work Duraguil >and crimp wire the same. > >Dave > > >On Mon, 08 Nov 1999 22:52:53 -0600, Jerry Hathaway > wrote: > >> >>  >> >>

What is the best foundation for a hobby beekeeper to start with?  >>I have read that the plastics are >>
not well received by the bees. Is Duraguilt better received then Perma-dent? >>Or should I stick with >>
all wax foundation?  Any suggestions would be appreciated. >> >>

I will be starting my first hives in the spring and am enjoying getting >>ready. >>
  >> >>

      Thank you, >>
  >>
     Jerry Hathaway >>
     Geneseo, Illinois >> > > > > Article 21995 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!faatcrl.faa.gov!hammer.uoregon.edu!newshub.northeast.verio.net!howland.erols.net!portc02.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: orangerose@aol.com (Orangerose) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Lines: 25 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 10 Nov 1999 02:45:30 GMT References: <19991109195323.06151.00004156@ng-fa1.aol.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <19991109214530.02623.00002708@ng-ck1.aol.com> Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21995 >This is why the killing of >plants is always brought up. If veg*ns don't want to here about killing >plants >they need to educate the rest of us that this is a choice for some other >reason >than cruility to animals because to me cruility is crulity and life is life. >Putting one above the other is( except for survival) is a great travisity. So why put cruelty to humans above cruelty to animals? There are vegans who are also fruititarians--they do not eat any plant part that kills the entire plant. There are vegetarians (like me) who eat eggs and dairy as long as they are from small farmers who raise their animals humanely. Here's a website with some interesting discussion. It's written by a meat-eating guy whose girlfriend is a vegan. It probably explains better than I can the ins and outs of the veg*n community. The undergarments are from the depths of the Usenet, from the ng alt.undergarments.flameproof. A non-animal source, of course. Kelly Article 21996 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!news.sgi.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!remarQ-easT!remarQ.com!supernews.com!news.mindspring.net!firehose.mindspring.com!pool-207-205-180-52.phnx.grid.net!user From: HiStretch@GoStretch.com (Charles "Stretch" Ledford) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 22:51:48 -0600 Organization: STRETCH PHOTOGRAPHY Lines: 14 Message-ID: References: <19991107162421.11855.00001904@ng-cj1.aol.com> <80a9bi$vqq$1@nntp5.atl.mindspring.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: cf.cd.b4.34 X-Server-Date: 10 Nov 1999 05:52:27 GMT Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21996 In article <80a9bi$vqq$1@nntp5.atl.mindspring.net>, wrote: > My question is .....If we ate a Vagan would it be considered an act of > cruelty > (THINKING====> "DON'T SAY IT!!! DON'T SAY IT!) -- Charles "Stretch" Ledford STRETCH PHOTOGRAPHY "North America and the Entire World" http://www.GoStretch.com Article 21997 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!fu-berlin.de!news.icm.edu.pl!plonk.apk.net!news.apk.net!news.nitco.com!not-for-mail From: Chad Howell Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 22:21:37 -0600 Organization: NetNITCO Internet Services Lines: 27 Message-ID: <3828F2D1.808CF135@netnitco.net> References: <19991109195323.06151.00004156@ng-fa1.aol.com> <19991109214530.02623.00002708@ng-ck1.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: valpo-quad-3-7.netnitco.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: hyperion.nitco.com 942208393 1705 216.176.151.7 (10 Nov 1999 04:33:13 GMT) X-Complaints-To: newsadmin@netnitco.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 10 Nov 1999 04:33:13 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21997 Fire in the hole!!!!! Orangerose wrote: > >This is why the killing of > >plants is always brought up. If veg*ns don't want to here about killing > >plants > >they need to educate the rest of us that this is a choice for some other > >reason > >than cruility to animals because to me cruility is crulity and life is life. > >Putting one above the other is( except for survival) is a great travisity. > > So why put cruelty to humans above cruelty to animals? > > There are vegans who are also fruititarians--they do not eat any plant part > that kills the entire plant. There are vegetarians (like me) who eat eggs and > dairy as long as they are from small farmers who raise their animals humanely. > > Here's a website with some interesting discussion. It's written by a > meat-eating guy whose girlfriend is a vegan. It probably explains better than > I can the ins and outs of the veg*n community. > > The undergarments are from the depths of the Usenet, from the ng > alt.undergarments.flameproof. A non-animal source, of course. > > Kelly Article 21998 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!faatcrl.faa.gov!hammer.uoregon.edu!newshub.northeast.verio.net!news.idt.net!peerfeed.news.psi.net!jump.innerx.net!not-for-mail From: Charlie Kroeger Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Reply-To: ckrogrr@frankensteinface.com Message-ID: References: <19991109020310.10925.00002319@ng-cm1.aol.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 121 Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 00:07:13 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 38.11.203.145 X-Trace: jump.innerx.net 942214317 38.11.203.145 (Wed, 10 Nov 1999 01:11:57 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 01:11:57 EST Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21998 Orangerose said: >I am shocked and dismayed at the hostility and narrow-mindedness expressed >here. Veg*nism is a dietary choice. It's a little known fact that after keeping bees for many years, the beekeeper is overcome by the stronger culture of the bees and becomes the one who is kept. Some beekeepers are traditional farmer-like, plodding, boringly patriotic tedious non thinking homophobic, and vegan hating. We had some guy posting here recently who was on about fornicators spreading aids with the help of mosquitos, probably a typical southern beekeeper. > Such vegans often >do not even keep pets. Extreme? yes. Anything wrong with it? Extremism is as American as Tom Delay, perfectly normal; but how come you don't you want a real friend, a nice dog? A dog won't care if you're a vegan, although he might not get too enthusiastic over the table scraps, he/she will, love you just the same. You should see how many are out there, just take a visit to the pound, every cage full. > The (mis)treatment of plants has >nothing to do with it and is merely a red herring to divert the argument. I >have never been asked this question by someone who did not seem to feel that MY >dietary/lifestyle choice somehow threatened theirs. Relax, nothing you do threatens me. If your reasons for not mis-treating animals are well articulated, then it's only natural to attach that logic to everything we eat. I think for instance that the relentless hybridizing and now genetically modifying and patenting necessary food plants is evil and should be stopped. It is for instance, monstrous to put fish genes in tomatoes just to increase shelf life in a supermarket. I also think it's disrespectful to the plant, and discounts the plant's evolutionary struggles to arrive at its present stable and nutritious form. There are fundamental truths of nature, like realizing a few genes separate homos from being some other primate, or a plant, and depending on the code you get, depends on what you turn out to be. Maybe those hindus are on to something. >I would put forth that prosteletizing Christians are just >as annoying as prostelitizing veg*ns. I agree. > I think of Christians as basically nice people who are trying to do the right thing in >this world by living compassionately and with grace. Some people need to have religion, I think that's pretty well established; but, when they start operating radio and television stations and are allowed by the state, to accumulate large amounts of cash and property because mostly they pay no taxes, like corporations, then their next step is toward politics; in fact, they've already taken it, and we're seeing the early benefits of this thinking in our present sitting congress; even though many who got out the vote are now disappointed to find their representatives have been more changed by the system (i.e. bribery and corruption) than the other way around; but, as all can see, even christians have now rationalized greed. I think christians should take a page out of that book where Jesus is quoted by his trusted apostle Matthew in that part of the synoptic gospels of the same name, where Jesus, unequivocally states: (Mat. 6:5) and warns against conspicuous prayer, and spreading tedium. Jesus further adds cryptically: "they shall have their reward" and I would add, I hope so. I keep remembering what H.L. Mencken said about the puritans: "I don't mind them thinking like they do, I just don't want them wanting me to think like they do." >Not a Christian, yet I am the first to defend Christians with all >my heart and soul. Maybe you should come to Amarillo, Texas, join one of those off the wall christian churches (there are more than 300 odd) and don't forget to tell them you're a vegan. You may have to explain what that means, but after that, you'll be able to formulate a more educated opinion regarding your above statement. > Most veg*ns are basically good people with good values and good intentions and a healthy >respect for life and the natural world. I bet that most vegans are educated, fairly well off, mostly white people that have probably never had a bad day. You have to have a pretty stable and peaceful upbringing to be concerned about animal rights at 15; then again, you could just be a weird kid. I'm not suggesting that's bad, but that you come from a somewhat rarified ideal environment (San Francisco too) that allows these concerns to nurture. Vegans get more attention than they deserve rather like the communist manifesto, when it was first published. This is because those ideas threatened the establishment that knows it's basically wrong, but would rather die than change, or have you die for reminding them. >Everyone is entitled to their opinion Now, I'll fight for that. Charlie Kroeger - They intoxicate themselves with work so they won't see how they really are. Aldous Huxley Article 21999 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!news.sgi.com!newsfeed.mathworks.com!howland.erols.net!portc02.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: beecrofter@aol.comBee (BeeCrofter) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Lines: 9 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 10 Nov 1999 13:29:56 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <19991110082956.13159.00001419@ng-cr1.aol.com> Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:21999 Cow or carrot no matter, something must die to sustain us. Enlightenment comes from the middle path. Tom There is an extra Bee in the Email address after the AOL.com Article 22000 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!interpath.net!nntp.news.xara.net!xara.net!gxn.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!colt.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.enteract.com!news.enteract.com!not-for-mail From: "Barry Birkey" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Best foundation? Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 08:26:27 -0600 Organization: The Birkey Group, Inc. Message-ID: <80bv9r$387$1@eve.enteract.com> References: <3827A8A5.522355E0@geneseo.net> <80a6v9$8v6$1@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.229.150.25 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Lines: 15 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22000 Jerry, If you want the best piece of advice from all that's been blown around here so far...... I credit George for putting much of it in its proper place with the following statement. Barry ---------- In article <80a6v9$8v6$1@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>, "George Styer" wrote: > are reluctant to draw it out. Any foundation must be introduced under the > RIGHT CONDITIONS. Article 22001 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!feeder.qis.net!news.idt.net!newshub.nntp.mr.net!newshub.tc.umn.edu!news1.tc.umn.edu!not-for-mail From: David Kelley Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 08:56:41 -0600 Organization: Dept. of Soil, Water, and Climate Lines: 3 Message-ID: <382987A8.1D574C8E@soils.umn.edu> References: <19991107162421.11855.00001904@ng-cj1.aol.com> <80a9bi$vqq$1@nntp5.atl.mindspring.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: x160-46.soils.umn.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22001 Tried one once. Tasted like chicken... Article 22002 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.vt.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!pitt.edu!not-for-mail From: Silviu-Alin Bacanu Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Honey production/acre (/ha) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 10:58:27 -0500 Organization: University of Pittsburgh Lines: 10 Message-ID: <38299623.B4661DA9@msx.upmc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: bacanusa-nt40.wpic.pitt.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22002 Hi guys! Do you know any good website that gives the honey production/acre (or /ha) for different plants. It would be also nice to have the time and duration of flowering for those plants. Most of the sites are more concerned with the effects of polination on seed production than honey production. Article 22003 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!pitt.edu!not-for-mail From: Silviu-Alin Bacanu Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Paulownia Honey Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 11:02:05 -0500 Organization: University of Pittsburgh Lines: 9 Message-ID: <382996FC.4D137877@msx.upmc.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: bacanusa-nt40.wpic.pitt.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22003 Hi guys! It's me again. I saw a lot of tall stories on the web about paulownia wonder plant and that is a good honey producer. Can some one give me a ball park estimate of the honey production of Paulownia(lb/acre or kg/ha), time and duration of flowering in the temperate zone? Article 22004 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!faatcrl.faa.gov!hammer.uoregon.edu!news-feed.fnsi.net!news.idt.net!peerfeed.news.psi.net!jump.innerx.net!not-for-mail From: Charlie Kroeger Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Reply-To: ckrogrr@frankensteinface.com Message-ID: References: <19991110063423.02758.00002923@ng-cc1.aol.com> <19991110082713.13159.00001417@ng-cr1.aol.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 26 Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 11:56:28 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 38.31.250.215 X-Trace: jump.innerx.net 942256873 38.31.250.215 (Wed, 10 Nov 1999 13:01:13 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 13:01:13 EST Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22004 Tom the BeeCrofter ask: >I thought they had laws against sex with mosquitos down south I think that's chickens Tom. And that would be East Texas, that's definitely in the south, but West Texas is in the south west, a big difference. In Texas we also still have a law on the books that states firmly that shooting Indians from a moving car is breaking the law. Remember Texas was the only state that was a republic for ten years before it decided to join the U.S. as a state. It is because of this, Texas is the only state that can fly its state flag at the same level as the U.S. flag, but no one seems to know this. My cousin (now dead) once served on a committee in Austin (Texas state capitol) to review the legal implications and possibilities involved with bills sponsored by our respective state representatives. He said they actually did "review" a bill from a certain east texas representative about just that thing: banning sex with chickens. The honorable member was voicing the concerns of some of the industrial chicken and egg producers in his district that were apparently worried this practice would damage business. Charlie Kroeger Article 22005 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!faatcrl.faa.gov!hammer.uoregon.edu!news-feed.fnsi.net!netnews.com!newspeer1.nac.net!peer1.news.dircon.net!peer2.news.dircon.net!reader.news.dircon.net!not-for-mail From: steven.turner@zbee.com (Steven Turner) To: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Beenet at the National Honey Show Message-ID: <942257494@zbee.com> Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 18:09:40 +0000 Distribution: world Organization: ZbeeNet computer networking for beekeepers CHRS: IBMPC 2 CODEPAGE: 437 MSGID: 240:244/118 7a8ff652 PID: FDAPX/w+ 1.13 EH00015 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 194.112.43.78 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 194.112.32.19 Lines: 16 NNTP-Posting-Host: newsread3.dircon.co.uk X-Trace: reader.news.dircon.net 942261486 4119 194.112.32.19 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22005 Hello All, Today Thursday the 10th of November 1999. Come and visit us at the Beenet stand at the National Honey Show in London Steve, Peter, Clive are here to demo Beenet for the whole 3 day event. Pick up a FREE Beenet diskette at our stand. See Peter demo the BIBBA sofware Regards Steve PS. Please send us greetings at the show --- * Origin: Live from the National Honey Show (240:244/118) Article 22006 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!cyclone.nyroc.rr.com!news.nyroc.rr.com!typhoon.nyroc.rr.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Message-ID: <3829C864.ED67D1B2@twcny.rr.com> From: JGinNY X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question References: <38297F4F.4A4BEBFC@twcny.rr.com> <19991110131553.11319.00000292@ngol01.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 19 Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 14:34:13 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.24.11.225 X-Complaints-To: abuse@twcny.rr.com X-Trace: typhoon.nyroc.rr.com 942262107 24.24.11.225 (Wed, 10 Nov 1999 14:28:27 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 14:28:27 EST Organization: Time Warner Road Runner - Syracuse NY Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22006 Jajwuth wrote: > Could somebody counter what the vegan guy is saying about honey being bee barf? > Every time I go for honey I'm thinking of it. > Al "Barf" implies that the bees are sick, or perhaps that the honey is laden with germs. The honey-stomach is not their real stomach where the food they eat is digested. It is just a vessel for the transport and ripening of nectar. If you think about almost any food long enough -- or see how it is processed -- you might find yourself having second thoughts about how "edible" it is. Just think about where milk comes from, or eggs... imo Article 22007 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!nntp-xfer.ncsu.edu!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!wn3feed!worldnet.att.net!wnmaster1!not-for-mail From: "George Styer" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 19:17:42 -0800 Organization: Productive Solutions Lines: 20 Message-ID: <80ao4t$jbi$1@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net> References: <19991109195323.06151.00004156@ng-fa1.aol.com> <19991109214530.02623.00002708@ng-ck1.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.72.47.197 X-Trace: bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net 942203869 19826 12.72.47.197 (10 Nov 1999 03:17:49 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 10 Nov 1999 03:17:49 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22007 So how does a fruititarian vegan reconcile that the bees which pollinate this (some) fruit are enslaved and abused? Just curious as to how far down the line a vegan concerns him or herself. -- Geo Sacramento, in California's great Central Valley "Honey is sweet but the bee stings" gstyLer@worldnet.att.net To reply via e-mail get the "L" out of there Orangerose wrote in message news:19991109214530.02623.00002708@ng-ck1.aol.com... > > There are vegans who are also fruititarians--they do not eat any plant part > that kills the entire plant. Article 22008 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!news.sgi.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!cleanfeed.inet.tele.dk!not-for-mail From: "Jorn Johanesson" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: apistran (sp?) strip question Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 00:17:01 +0100 Organization: EDBi Lines: 20 Message-ID: <80cuc5$13n$2@news.inet.tele.dk> References: <3826667D.104E7E74@greensboro.com> <19991108083603.21990.00000170@ngol02.aol.com> <38284C1E.6765BB15@riverace.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ip8.mrgnxr1.ras.tele.dk X-Trace: news.inet.tele.dk 942275781 1143 195.249.242.8 (10 Nov 1999 23:16:21 GMT) X-Complaints-To: Department of Abuse NNTP-Posting-Date: 10 Nov 1999 23:16:21 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22008 > >Could you please describe your treatment methods? I'd love to go without >Apistan. Visit this URL, and see how we handle this in Denmark! http://apimo.dk/Varroa_report/varro-report.htm best regards Jorn Johanesson EDBi = multilingual Beekeeping software since 1987 http://home4.inet.tele.dk/apimo (Denmark) http://apimo.dk (USA) apimo@post4.tele.dk Jorn_Johanesson@apimo.dk Article 22009 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!newsfeed2.news.nl.uu.net!sun4nl!iol.ie!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!newspost.theplanet.net!not-for-mail From: "Peter Edwards" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Best foundation? Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 21:50:50 -0000 Organization: Customer of Planet Online Lines: 75 Message-ID: <80d14p$bpa$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk> References: <3827A8A5.522355E0@geneseo.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-23.beryllium.dialup.pol.co.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0060_01BF2AFC.7CC9FA40" X-Trace: news7.svr.pol.co.uk 942278617 12074 62.136.1.151 (11 Nov 1999 00:03:37 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 11 Nov 1999 00:03:37 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22009 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0060_01BF2AFC.7CC9FA40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Important thing to consider is when, rather than what. =20 Give any foundation at the wrong time and the bees will ignore or damage = it. Jerry Hathaway wrote in message = news:3827A8A5.522355E0@geneseo.net... =20 What is the best foundation for a hobby beekeeper to start with? I = have read that the plastics are=20 not well received by the bees. Is Duraguilt better received then = Perma-dent? Or should I stick with=20 all wax foundation? Any suggestions would be appreciated.=20 I will be starting my first hives in the spring and am enjoying = getting ready.=20 =20 Thank you,=20 =20 Jerry Hathaway=20 Geneseo, Illinois=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0060_01BF2AFC.7CC9FA40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Important thing to consider is when, rather than what. 
 
Give any foundation at the wrong time and the bees will ignore or = damage=20 it.
Jerry Hathaway <hathaway@geneseo.net> = wrote in=20 message news:3827A8A5.522355E0@genese= o.net...
 =20

What is the best foundation for a hobby beekeeper to start = with?  I=20 have read that the plastics are
not well received by the bees. Is=20 Duraguilt better received then Perma-dent? Or should I stick with =
all wax=20 foundation?  Any suggestions would be appreciated.=20

I will be starting my first hives in the spring and am enjoying = getting=20 ready.
 =20

      Thank you,
 =20
     Jerry Hathaway =
    =20 Geneseo, Illinois

------=_NextPart_000_0060_01BF2AFC.7CC9FA40-- Article 22010 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!news.sgi.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: orangerose@aol.com (Orangerose) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Lines: 114 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder07.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 10 Nov 1999 09:16:13 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <19991110041613.02249.00002900@ng-bk1.aol.com> Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22010 >> Such vegans often >>do not even keep pets. Extreme? yes. Anything wrong with it? > >Extremism is as American as Tom Delay, perfectly normal; >but how come you don't you want a real friend, a nice dog Please read more carefully. I am not one of these vegans--notice how it says "such vegans". And again--read more carefully, I'm not even vegan. I was for two of the fifteen years I've been a vegetarian, though. And no dogs cuz I already have a cat. >If your reasons for not mis-treating animals are well articulated, then >it's only natural to attach that logic to everything we eat. Why? This is not "natural" logic. Animals are not plants (though humans are animals...) If you follow the logic that we can't know if animals or plants have emotions/feelings so veg*ns should err on the side of caution (ie respect the plants right to live free, too) then, for that matter, we don't know for sure that any human other than myself actually feels pain or needs to be free. I can think it, believe it, but I can't *know* it. > I think >for instance that the relentless hybridizing and now genetically >modifying and patenting necessary food plants is evil and should be >stopped. I agree, but not for the same reasons I'm a vegetarian. I try to buy only organic products, I don't shop at big chains, I support my local farmers (including beekeepers) by buying at the farmers market. But that's another story entirely. I believe in the power of the dollar and I exert my power by where I spend my money. >Some people need to have religion, I think that's pretty well >established; but, when they start operating radio and television >stations and are allowed by the state, to accumulate large amounts of >cash and property Still, your average Joe Christian is a nice guy who wants to do good in the world. Just because a few beaurocrats and greedy politicians use Christianity as a front to grab more money/power does not mean most Christians are evil. This is exactly my point about vegans. Just because the only vegans most people see are the animal rights activists throwing red paint on fur coated opera-goers does not mean that most vegans aren't compassionate, non-confrontational people. >Maybe you should come to Amarillo, Texas, join one of those off the wall >christian churches (there are more than 300 odd) and don't forget to >tell them you're a vegan. I'm not. I'm a vegetarian. >You may have to explain what that means, but >after that, you'll be able to formulate a more educated opinion >regarding your above statement. And I grew up a Missouri Synod Lutheran. Went to Sunday school every week, was an acolyte, sang in the children's choir. My mother is a choir director, my grandfather a lay preacher. Why do you think I know that Christians are basically good people? I was surrounded by them for half my life. I would not call my opinion exactly uneducated. >I bet that most vegans are educated, fairly well off, mostly white >people that have probably never had a bad day. You have to have a >pretty stable and peaceful upbringing to be concerned about animal >rights at 15; then again, you could just be a weird kid. I was a weird kid. My dad hunts deer, geese, pheasant, quail, and the occasional rabbit. I ate meat three times a day as a kid, saw half slaughtered deer in the garage from the time I was a toddler, helped my dad clean fish and pull feathers. I'm still not squeamish about meat. Blood and guts don't gross me out. If I was starving, I could kill a chicken, maybe. But my father also raised me with a healthy respect for the natural world. When I discovered the horrible conditions in which animals are raised for food, I was traumatized. Couldn't stop thinking about it. So, in the single minded way 15-year olds sometimes do, I got political. > I'm not >suggesting that's bad, but that you come from a somewhat rarified ideal >environment (San Francisco too) that allows these concerns to nurture. I live here (San Francisco) but I'm not from here. I'm from Delaware. Southern Delaware, if you're familiar with the state. Boondocks, backwater, the sticks, whatever you want to call it. When I moved to California (Sacramento when I was 17) I had never seen an avocado, a punk rocker, or a neo-nazi skinhead. Learned about all those before my 18th birthday, though. Not to ramble about my past: I just want it to be clear that I am not your average white affluent suburban girl who got worried about the poor bunnies and so became a veg*n. >Vegans get more attention than they deserve rather like the communist >manifesto, when it was first published. This is because those ideas >threatened the establishment that knows it's basically wrong, but would >rather die than change, or have you die for reminding them. This is a very interesting thought. I will keep it in mind the next time I get in a why-don't-you-care-about-the-poor-broccoli argument. Might not give me more leverage, but might give me more peace of mind. Also, I forgot the URL in my last post. Here's the website I mentioned: http://www.veganmeat.com/faq.html Just informative. (At least I thought so.) Kelly Article 22011 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!faatcrl.faa.gov!hammer.uoregon.edu!news.algonet.se!algonet!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!cleanfeed.inet.tele.dk!not-for-mail From: "Jorn Johanesson" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Residual Apistan buuild up in comb Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 00:15:25 +0100 Organization: EDBi Lines: 46 Message-ID: <80cuc3$13n$1@news.inet.tele.dk> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: ip8.mrgnxr1.ras.tele.dk X-Trace: news.inet.tele.dk 942275779 1143 195.249.242.8 (10 Nov 1999 23:16:19 GMT) X-Complaints-To: Department of Abuse NNTP-Posting-Date: 10 Nov 1999 23:16:19 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22011 Michel Crichton skrev i meddelelsen ... >Hi all, > >I have a quick question regarding Apistan. I have recently heard that use >of Apistan year after year in a hive will cause a residual amount to build >up in the comb. Is there any truth to this Yes, there is a build up of stuff in wax! >and if so is it harmful to the >consumer? Not as faar as I know, but why take the risk ? >Is there a solution to the problem or do you simply have to scrap your comb >every couple of years Think of using an other way to get ried of the mites, you can start here : http://apimo.dk/Varroa_report/varro-report.htm It shows how we handle this beast here in Denmark best regards Jorn Johanesson EDBi = multilingual Beekeeping software since 1987 http://home4.inet.tele.dk/apimo (Denmark) http://apimo.dk (USA) apimo@post4.tele.dk Jorn_Johanesson@apimo.dk . > >Thanks for any input, >Mich > > Article 22012 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!news.sgi.com!howland.erols.net!netnews.com!newspeer1.nac.net!news-FFM2.ecrc.net!news.mindspring.net!firehose.mindspring.com!pool-207-205-213-103.dnvr.grid.net!user From: HiStretch@GoStretch.com (Charles "Stretch" Ledford) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 18:18:34 -0600 Organization: STRETCH PHOTOGRAPHY Lines: 36 Message-ID: References: <19991110063423.02758.00002923@ng-cc1.aol.com> <19991110082713.13159.00001417@ng-cr1.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: cf.cd.d5.67 X-Server-Date: 11 Nov 1999 01:16:48 GMT Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22012 In article , ckrogrr@frankensteinface.com wrote: > Tom the BeeCrofter ask: > > >I thought they had laws against sex with mosquitos down south > > I think that's chickens Tom. And that would be East Texas, that's > definitely in the south, but West Texas is in the south west, a big > difference. > > In Texas we also still have a law on the books that states firmly that > shooting Indians from a moving car is breaking the law. Remember Texas > was the only state that was a republic for ten years before it decided > to join the U.S. as a state. > > It is because of this, Texas is the only state that can fly its state > flag at the same level as the U.S. flag, but no one seems to know this. > Not to mention that TEX-us leads the nation in the number of executions it carries out each year and in the number of people on death row. Interestingly, this puts them (and Dubya, their fearless leader) right up there with such notables as Iraq, Iran, China, and Saudi Arabia, none of which are noted for their commitment to individual liberties or human rights. And, yet, some would STILL trust the rest of the country in the hands of Dubya. Truth is indeed stranger than fiction. -- Charles "Stretch" Ledford STRETCH PHOTOGRAPHY "North America and the Entire World" http://www.GoStretch.com Article 22013 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!faatcrl.faa.gov!hammer.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.axxsys.net!nntp.abs.net!feeder.qis.net!WCG!news.nitco.com!not-for-mail From: Chad Howell Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 19:57:17 -0600 Organization: NetNITCO Internet Services Lines: 42 Message-ID: <382A227C.76845A19@netnitco.net> References: <19991110063423.02758.00002923@ng-cc1.aol.com> <19991110082713.13159.00001417@ng-cr1.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.176.155.143 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: hyperion.nitco.com 942286136 25103 216.176.155.143 (11 Nov 1999 02:08:56 GMT) X-Complaints-To: newsadmin@netnitco.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 11 Nov 1999 02:08:56 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22013 An eye for an eye. George Bush rules!!!!! Besides it's better than what we've got now or could hope to get from the liberal side. Charles Stretch Ledford wrote: > In article , > ckrogrr@frankensteinface.com wrote: > > > Tom the BeeCrofter ask: > > > > >I thought they had laws against sex with mosquitos down south > > > > I think that's chickens Tom. And that would be East Texas, that's > > definitely in the south, but West Texas is in the south west, a big > > difference. > > > > In Texas we also still have a law on the books that states firmly that > > shooting Indians from a moving car is breaking the law. Remember Texas > > was the only state that was a republic for ten years before it decided > > to join the U.S. as a state. > > > > It is because of this, Texas is the only state that can fly its state > > flag at the same level as the U.S. flag, but no one seems to know this. > > > > Not to mention that TEX-us leads the nation in the number of executions it > carries out each year and in the number of people on death row. > Interestingly, this puts them (and Dubya, their fearless leader) right up > there with such notables as Iraq, Iran, China, and Saudi Arabia, none of > which are noted for their commitment to individual liberties or human > rights. > > And, yet, some would STILL trust the rest of the country in the hands of Dubya. > > Truth is indeed stranger than fiction. > > -- > Charles "Stretch" Ledford > STRETCH PHOTOGRAPHY > "North America and the Entire World" > http://www.GoStretch.com Article 22014 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!news.sgi.com!newsfeed.mathworks.com!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!nntp.earthlink.net!posted-from-earthlink!not-for-mail From: John Caldeira Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Best foundation? Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 20:12:27 -0600 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <3827A8A5.522355E0@geneseo.net> <382818dd.693753890@news.usenetserver.com> X-Posted-Path-Was: not-for-mail Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-ELN-Date: 11 Nov 1999 02:13:17 GMT X-ELN-Insert-Date: Wed Nov 10 18:15:39 1999 Organization: EarthLink Network, Inc. X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 Lines: 21 Mime-Version: 1.0 NNTP-Posting-Host: sdn-ar-004txdallp334.dialsprint.net Message-ID: Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22014 hamilton@pbssite.com (Dave Hamilton) wrote: >Its is my humble unscientific opinion that Nebraska bees work Duraguil >and crimp wire the same. Duragilt and wax foundation may be drawn out the same way initially, but when there is damage from moth larva or a mouse, the bees will not rebuild the Duragilt - The beekeeper is left with bare plastic. The bees are much more likely to rebuild wax foundation. Frames with Duragilt near the entrance that get chewed back are also never rebuilt by the bees. 100% plastic foundation like Plasticell does create beautiful worker cell patterns and is easy to "pop in" to wood frames, but wax foundation gets drawn out better in a mild nectar flow. -John John Caldeira Dallas, Texas jcaldeira@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~jcaldeira/beekeeping/ Article 22015 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!news.sgi.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!peerfeed.news.psi.net!jump.innerx.net!not-for-mail From: Charlie Kroeger Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Reply-To: ckrogrr@frankensteinface.com Message-ID: References: <19991110063423.02758.00002923@ng-cc1.aol.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 7 Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 20:45:47 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 38.31.250.217 X-Trace: jump.innerx.net 942288632 38.31.250.217 (Wed, 10 Nov 1999 21:50:32 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 21:50:32 EST Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22015 Kevin Johnson said: >grrrrrrrrrr......... come on Kevin, don't set the hounds on me I'm just funnin' you here. Charlie Kroeger Article 22016 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!faatcrl.faa.gov!hammer.uoregon.edu!newshub.northeast.verio.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!u-2.maxwell.syr.edu!news1.radix.net!not-for-mail From: honeybs@radix.net (honeybs) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Best foundation? Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 11:04:28 GMT Organization: RadixNet Internet Services Lines: 31 Message-ID: <80bi5u$sao$3@news1.Radix.Net> References: <3827A8A5.522355E0@geneseo.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p4.a1.du.radix.net X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22016 Jerry Hathaway wrote: > >  >

What is the best foundation for a hobby beekeeper to start with?  >I have read that the plastics are >
not well received by the bees. Is Duraguilt better received then Perma-dent? >Or should I stick with >
all wax foundation?  Any suggestions would be appreciated. >

I will be starting my first hives in the spring and am enjoying getting >ready. >
  Don't get me started on Duraguilt. The guilt part comes from Dadant selling this shit to unsuspecting people and stealing their money. The Dura part is from the fact that Dadant has continued to sell it for years. It is absolute trash so don't waste your money. Greg the beekeep // Bee Just & Just Bee! =8{ })))- Chicamuxen, Maryland, USA \\ www.radix.net\~honeybs Article 22017 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!faatcrl.faa.gov!hammer.uoregon.edu!news-feed.fnsi.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!portc02.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: hk1beeman@aol.com (Hk1BeeMan) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Lines: 8 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 10 Nov 1999 11:34:23 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <19991110063423.02758.00002923@ng-cc1.aol.com> Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22017 >who was on about fornicators spreading aids >with the help of mosquitos, probably a typical southern beekeeper. grrrrrrrrrr......... Kevin Johnson, Big Johnson Beekeeping, Lillington NC Article 22018 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!faatcrl.faa.gov!hammer.uoregon.edu!news-feed.fnsi.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: harrisonrw@aol.com (HarrisonRW) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Lines: 4 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder05.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 11 Nov 1999 11:39:15 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <19991111063915.04653.00000003@ng-ce1.aol.com> Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22018 >Not to mention that TEX-us leads the nation in the number of executions it >carries out each year and in the number of people on death row. Are these people who left apistan strips in longer than 42 days :) Article 22019 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!news-relay.ncren.net!newsgate.duke.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!newsfeed.enteract.com!news.enteract.com!not-for-mail From: "Barry Birkey" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Best foundation? Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 08:47:12 -0600 Organization: The Birkey Group, Inc. Lines: 27 Message-ID: <80eksn$662$1@eve.enteract.com> References: <3827A8A5.522355E0@geneseo.net> <382818dd.693753890@news.usenetserver.com> <382aba6d.866185765@news.usenetserver.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.229.150.129 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22019 This is correct, damaged comb is damaged comb regardless of the foundation type and bees will almost always rebuild with drone comb. This might be one plus for using Plasticell or Pierco type foundation. In the end, ALL types of foundation will work and ALL types have their drawbacks. Unfortunately, this thread got off to a bad start when Jerry asked, "What is the best foundation" of which the reply should have been, "there isn't a best, just a lot of different kinds to choose from." -Barry ---------- In article <382aba6d.866185765@news.usenetserver.com>, hamilton@pbssite.com (Dave Hamilton) wrote: > But they always fix with drone comb .. so this is not a valid point. > > IMHO > > Dave > On Wed, 10 Nov 1999 20:12:27 -0600, John Caldeira > wrote: > >>Duragilt and wax foundation may be drawn out the same way initially, >>but when there is damage from moth larva or a mouse, the bees will not >>rebuild the Duragilt - The beekeeper is left with bare plastic. The >>bees are much more likely to rebuild wax foundation. Article 22020 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!nyc-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!portc02.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: beecrofter@aol.comBee (BeeCrofter) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Lines: 22 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 10 Nov 1999 13:27:13 GMT References: <19991110063423.02758.00002923@ng-cc1.aol.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <19991110082713.13159.00001417@ng-cr1.aol.com> Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22020 >>who was on about fornicators spreading aids >>with the help of mosquitos, probably a typical southern beekeeper. > >grrrrrrrrrr......... > > >Kevin Johnson, Big Johnson Beekeeping, Lillington NC > Hmmm I thought they had laws against sex with mosquitos down south Tom There is an extra Bee in the Email address after the AOL.com Article 22021 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!hydra.cs.rochester.edu!news.eecis.udel.edu!netnews.com!news.idt.net!peerfeed.news.psi.net!psinr!nr1.ottawa.istar.net!not-for-mail From: "Michel Crichton" Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Residual Apistan buuild up in comb Lines: 13 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3612.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3612.1700 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 13:01:25 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.53.180.130 NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 08:01:25 EDT Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22021 Hi all, I have a quick question regarding Apistan. I have recently heard that use of Apistan year after year in a hive will cause a residual amount to build up in the comb. Is there any truth to this and if so is it harmful to the consumer? Does it affect the taste/smell/appearance of the honey produced? Is there a solution to the problem or do you simply have to scrap your comb every couple of years. Thanks for any input, Mich Article 22022 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!faatcrl.faa.gov!hammer.uoregon.edu!newshub.northeast.verio.net!newsfeed.mathworks.com!cyclone.nyroc.rr.com!news.nyroc.rr.com!typhoon.nyroc.rr.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Message-ID: <382989B1.AB42EAD3@twcny.rr.com> From: JGinNY X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question References: <19991107162421.11855.00001904@ng-cj1.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 16 Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 10:06:25 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.24.11.225 X-Complaints-To: abuse@twcny.rr.com X-Trace: typhoon.nyroc.rr.com 942246065 24.24.11.225 (Wed, 10 Nov 1999 10:01:05 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 10:01:05 EST Organization: Time Warner Road Runner - Syracuse NY Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22022 Charlie Kroeger wrote: > [...] Lots of bees die when it comes to removing their honey. [...] It's practically impossible to not kill *any* bees, but many of us do try to minimize that, even if it does takes a little more time during manipulations. To try and avoid "bee mashing" is in our best interest anyway -- release of alarm pheromones is reduced, and consequently the bees don't get so riled up. Colony life can then resume, with little disturbance. At the very least, we don't burn or sulphur the bees like they did way-back-when. (Generally. Some find it more economical to kill the bees off after harvest, but AFAIK the practice is not too common. Maybe I'm mistaken on this?) Article 22023 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Message-ID: <38296D9D.71EAB928@twcny.rr.com> From: JGinNY X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: info on ANP inserts? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 13 Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 08:06:26 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.24.11.225 X-Complaints-To: abuse@twcny.rr.com X-Trace: typhoon.nyroc.rr.com 942238873 24.24.11.225 (Wed, 10 Nov 1999 08:01:13 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 08:01:13 EST Organization: Time Warner Road Runner - Syracuse NY Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!hydra.cs.rochester.edu!biko.cc.rochester.edu!news.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!cyclone.nyroc.rr.com!news.nyroc.rr.com!typhoon.nyroc.rr.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22023 What's the deal with the ANP plastic combs, with the tapered cell walls -- how does the cell design lend itself to "biological" varroa control? Does it interfere with mites entering the cells w/larvae, or does it affect the development time of the brood? Has anyone on the ng. tried them? I'm not considering them for use but wondered what the idea was behind the design. Not even sure that they are still on the market these days. thanks jg Article 22024 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!faatcrl.faa.gov!hammer.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.maxwell.syr.edu!u-2.maxwell.syr.edu!news1.radix.net!not-for-mail From: honeybs@radix.net (honeybs) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Best foundation? Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 16:48:23 GMT Organization: RadixNet Internet Services Lines: 30 Message-ID: <80eqn1$kj$1@news1.Radix.Net> References: <3827A8A5.522355E0@geneseo.net> <382818dd.693753890@news.usenetserver.com> <382aba6d.866185765@news.usenetserver.com> <80eksn$662$1@eve.enteract.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p48.a4.du.radix.net X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82 Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22024 "Barry Birkey" wrote: >This is correct, damaged comb is damaged comb regardless of the foundation >type and bees will almost always rebuild with drone comb. This might be one >plus for using Plasticell or Pierco type foundation. In the end, ALL types >of foundation will work and ALL types have their drawbacks. >Unfortunately, this thread got off to a bad start when Jerry asked, "What is >the best foundation" of which the reply should have been, "there isn't a >best, just a lot of different kinds to choose from." >-Barry The true test is five years from now when you start throwing out the durapuke foundation frames. I cuss it and Dadant constantly every I go though a hive and find sheets of plastic where the bees have chewed the wax off. The new HD foundations like rite-cell are the only way to go. Greg the beekeep // Bee Just & Just Bee! =8{ })))- Chicamuxen, Maryland, USA \\ www.radix.net\~honeybs Article 22025 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Message-ID: <38297FFA.FE284899@twcny.rr.com> From: JGinNY X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question References: <19991110082956.13159.00001419@ng-cr1.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 12 Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 09:24:49 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.24.11.225 X-Complaints-To: abuse@twcny.rr.com X-Trace: typhoon.nyroc.rr.com 942243570 24.24.11.225 (Wed, 10 Nov 1999 09:19:30 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 09:19:30 EST Organization: Time Warner Road Runner - Syracuse NY Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!hydra.cs.rochester.edu!biko.cc.rochester.edu!news.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!cyclone.nyroc.rr.com!news.nyroc.rr.com!typhoon.nyroc.rr.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22025 Saw the vegan web page on beekeeping a few weeks ago and found it rather disturbing. Lots of hair-splitting. Some people have way too much time on their hands. If it weren't for beekeepers (largely) there wouldn't be honey bees around nowadays anyway. You might even say that we bee-folks are involved in "conservation," & helping a threatened species. Very noble, eh? Give us each a gold star. What a time to be alive. You can even get vegetarian dog food now. So your dog doesn't have to be immoral. If I could only convince my cats that they should eat greens, and leave the damn rodents alone. They're really good cats, evidently just mistaken, or just not enlightened yet. -j. Article 22026 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!rutgers!faatcrl.faa.gov!hammer.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!portc01.blue.aol.com!spamz.news.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: jajwuth@aol.com (Jajwuth) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid question Lines: 3 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder05.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 10 Nov 1999 18:15:53 GMT References: <38297F4F.4A4BEBFC@twcny.rr.com> Organization: AOL Canada http://www.aol.ca X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler Message-ID: <19991110131553.11319.00000292@ngol01.aol.com> Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22026 Could somebody counter what the vegan guy is saying about honey being bee barf? Every time I go for honey I'm thinking of it. Al Article 22027 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu!unc-cs!news-relay.ncren.net!gatech!newsfeed.mathworks.com!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail From: AL Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Best foundation? Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 10:13:21 -0600 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 25 Message-ID: <382AEB21.3530@midwest.net> References: <3827A8A5.522355E0@geneseo.net> <382818dd.693753890@news.usenetserver.com> Reply-To: lithar@midwest.net X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Xref: fddinewz.oit.unc.edu sci.agriculture.beekeeping:22027 John Caldeira wrote: > > 100% plastic foundation like Plasticell does create beautiful worker > cell patterns and is easy to "pop in" to wood frames, but wax > foundation gets drawn out better in a mild nectar flow. > > -John > > John Caldeira I've been following this thread waiting for someone to ask about Rite-cell foundation - guess I get to be the one. It is all I've used since I started this hobby two years ago and as far as I know it works pretty well. I'm a bit on the lazy side and a bit short of time so the plastic was just the ticket. What I don't know is how Rite-cell compares with Plasticell - are these one and the same item or is there a substantial difference in design? AL Article 22028 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping: Path: fddine