From mthunzeker@aol.com Mon Aug 8 12:45:29 EDT 1994 Article: 666 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!uunet!newstf01.cr1.aol.com!search01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: mthunzeker@aol.com (MTHunzeker) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: PENCAP-M (?) Insecticide Date: 4 Aug 1994 23:51:05 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 20 Sender: root@search01.news.aol.com Message-ID: <31scv9$n9e@search01.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: search01.news.aol.com (This seems to be my night for insecticide questions.) A local aerial applicator is pushing PENCAP-M (I think I have the name right) for treating corn just after it has tassled. According to one of the commercial beekeepers in our local beekeepers association, PENCAP is a serious threat to bees, especially in tassling corn, but the applicator maintains that he "doesn't ever see any bees in corn" (probably because he is flying 6 feet above it at 60 knots). Is this actually a legal use of PENCAP? Does anyone have any experience with this? Are there studies we can use to demonstrate the danger of PENCAP? Has anyone been successful in forcing limits on the use of PENCAP? Any available information would be greatly appreciated. Mike Hunzeker MTHunzeker@aol.com Boulder County Colorado Beekeeper From adamf@Hopper.itc.Virginia.EDU Mon Aug 8 12:45:30 EDT 1994 Article: 667 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!murdoch!Hopper.itc.Virginia.EDU!adamf From: adamf@Hopper.itc.Virginia.EDU (Adam Finkelstein) Subject: Re: PENCAP-M (?) Insecticide Message-ID: Sender: usenet@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU Organization: Public Access Internet at UVa. References: <31scv9$n9e@search01.news.aol.com> Date: Fri, 5 Aug 1994 12:20:35 GMT Lines: 24 In article <31scv9$n9e@search01.news.aol.com>, MTHunzeker wrote: >A local aerial applicator is pushing PENCAP-M (I think I have the name >right) for treating corn just after it has tassled. According to one >of the commercial beekeepers in our local beekeepers association, >PENCAP is a serious threat to bees, especially in tassling corn, but >the applicator maintains that he "doesn't ever see any bees in corn" >(probably because he is flying 6 feet above it at 60 knots). Mike, check with your state apiarist, about the law. Here in VA, if there are known bees present, an applicator must notify the beekeeeper well ahead of time before application, for it is illegal to spray during bee flight as per the label. PENCAP-M resembles pollen, and since bees are working corn, gathering pollen, PENCAP-M, applied at this time , would be deadly to colonies foraging. The applicator needs to know that there are bees present. Involve your Dept. of Agriculture in this issue, bee inspection or the State apiarist's office, but get somebody on the situation. Label laws are very hard to enforce in bee kills. Adam (VA Bee inspector) -- ============================================================================ Adam Finkelstein adamf@hopper.itc.virginia.edu adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu =============================================== |Bees To Please| ======= From SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu Mon Aug 8 12:45:31 EDT 1994 Article: 668 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news.duke.edu!MathWorks.Com!news2.near.net!usenet.elf.com!rpi!rebecca!uacsc2.albany.edu!SYSAM From: SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu (Aaron Morris) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Insecticide in bee venom? Date: Fri, 05 Aug 94 08:43:43 EDT Organization: University at Albany, Albany NY 12222 Lines: 13 Message-ID: <170097AC3S86.SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu> References: <31scrh$n7j@search01.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: uacsc2.albany.edu In article <31scrh$n7j@search01.news.aol.com> mthunzeker@aol.com (MTHunzeker) writes: >So we are wondering if it is possible for a bee to pass on an >insecticide in her venom? Has any research been performed in this >area? Stating up front that this is mere speculation on my part, I would imagine that insecticide would do in/off/kill a bee before there would be time for any insecticidal residues to be absorbed/transferred to bee venom. Furthermore, I'd speculate that a poisoned bee would not be up to the task of defending a hive or stinging a beekeeper: she'd be too busy kicking the bucket! From rsrodger@wam.umd.edu Mon Aug 8 12:45:32 EDT 1994 Article: 669 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news.duke.edu!eff!news.umbc.edu!haven.umd.edu!cville-srv.wam.umd.edu!rsrodger From: rsrodger@wam.umd.edu (R S Rodgers) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: What to do with empty hive? Date: Fri, 05 Aug 1994 12:14:54 -0500 Organization: University of Maryland College Park Lines: 18 Message-ID: <-LcGkO9RtM7B069yn@wam.umd.edu> References: <170078E13S86.SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu> Reply-To: rsrodger@wam.umd.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: rac6.wam.umd.edu Originator: rsrodger@rac6.wam.umd.edu In article <170078E13S86.SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu>, SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu (Aaron Morris) wrote: > (worst case scenario (American Foulbrood) calls for > treatment by fire). Pardon a question from an interested reader (no knowledge whatsoever of beekeeping), but what are "Robber Bees" (wasps?) and what is American Foulbrood? I ask because I'm curious as to what kinds of diseases strike bees. In my pesticide class, we covered the use of biological agents instead of chemical pesticides (fungi, etc.), but nothing about diseases that strike beneficial insects. -- Previous .sig deleted because some people couldn't parse "from email _received_ re: a post on comp.sys.powerpc." From sandrock@aries.scs.uiuc.edu Mon Aug 8 12:45:33 EDT 1994 Article: 670 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news.duke.edu!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!overload.lbl.gov!lll-winken.llnl.gov!fnnews.fnal.gov!mp.cs.niu.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!aries!sandrock From: sandrock@aries.scs.uiuc.edu (Mark Sandrock) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: The hive ain't empty... Date: 5 Aug 94 20:05:12 GMT Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana Lines: 38 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: aries.scs.uiuc.edu Since I stirred things up a bit with my questions about empty hives and robber bees, I thought it might be good to let people know what I've found since then. Today at lunchtime I opened the hive and found a lot of bees crawling about. They were especially dense on the sunnier side of the hive as opposed to the shady side. I could see that they were busy adding comb on three frames closest to the side. In fact, these frames looked so thick with comb that I did not initially try to move them, but instead removed one of the middle frames. It had some honey cells along the top, which I remembered from before, but in the center there appeared to be brood cells on which the covering was broken. I don't know if this is a normal appearance for hatched out cells, so this concerned me somewhat. The bees seemed quite calm and gentle. A dozen or two were floating around the hive, a few seemed to check me out, but they mostly seemed to ignore me--a rather gratifying attitude to my way of thinking. :-) I could easily see dozens of bees crawling around on the frames, and one thing that puzzled me a bit was they mostly seemed to ignore the smoke I would puff at them occasionally. Still, it felt reassuring to have the smoker handy. I'm going out of town this weekend, but next week I intend to look at a few more frames and try to spot the queen and/or active brood cells. Anyway, my newbie impression is that a colony has indeed moved in, but perhaps someone would care to interpret what I've seen so far. Thanks again to everyone for the helpful comments. Mark Sandrock -- Univ. of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign "Fruechte reifen durch die Sonne, Chemical Sciences Computer Center Menschen durch die Liebe." 505 S. Mathews Ave., Urbana, IL 61801 --Julius Langbehn Email: sandrock@uiuc.edu From rshough@tasc.com Mon Aug 8 12:45:35 EDT 1994 Article: 671 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news.duke.edu!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!uunet!newsserver.tasc.com!newsserver.read.tasc.com!rshough.read.tasc.com!user From: rshough@tasc.com (Rick Hough) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: What to do with empty hive? Date: Fri, 05 Aug 1994 17:56:06 -0500 Organization: TASC Lines: 55 Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <170078E13S86.SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu> <31ro0v$8hs@news1.hh.ab.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: rshough.read.tasc.com In article <31ro0v$8hs@news1.hh.ab.com>, Paul.Ferroni@ab.com wrote: > In article <170078E13S86.SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu>, SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu (Aaron Morris) writes: > > I'm surprised that there isn't more concern about the "Empty Hive" > > thread that has been going on the past few days. > > [...munch...] > > > And while I'm on my soapbox, does anyone else have a problem with the > > moth balls on top of the frames suggestion? Especially when the very > > same posting states that the wax WILL absorb moth ball chemicals! > > Can you spell honey contamination? I can just picture a honey judge: > > "Hmmm. Nice color. Pleasant order with just the right subtle > > undertones of moth balls!" Glad I am that I've never had the pleasure. > > > > I am the poster of the mothballs suggestion... My (longwinded) comments > follow. [...munch...] > NOTE: No mention of Paradichlorobenzene (moth balls) in this section. Ah - it suddenly becomes clear! There are two kinds of "moth balls"!! There is the kind that my mom uses to keep the moths out of her sweaters (I forget the chemical name), and then there is Paradichlorobenzene (PDB) that beekeepers use to deal with Wax moth. I'm under the impression that use of PDB on stored comb is widespread, and not detrimental to the comb, although there is a need to air out the combs for several days prior to putting them on the hives. While my mom's moth balls would probably kill the wax moth, I'm pretty sure that there is a problem with that chemical staying in the wax. Besides, my mom's moth balls aren't labeled (read legal) for use on combs (I think PDB is labeled for use on stored comb... isn't it??) Any comment, Aaron?? > The bottom line is that its obviously best to keep stong hives, and store > your empty supers in sealed bags, in cold areas (freezing) where possible. Amen to that!! Have a good weekend, all! Rick Hough **************************************************** * Rick Hough * email: rshough@tasc.com * * TASC * Phone: (617) 942-2000 * * 55 Walkers Brook Drive * FAX: (617) 942-7100 * * Reading, MA 01867 * * **************************************************** SET DISCLAIMER ON The above is my opinion, and not my employer's or anyone else's. From rshough@tasc.com Mon Aug 8 12:45:36 EDT 1994 Article: 672 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news.duke.edu!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!uunet!newsserver.tasc.com!newsserver.read.tasc.com!rshough.read.tasc.com!user From: rshough@tasc.com (Rick Hough) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: What to do with empty hive? Date: Fri, 05 Aug 1994 18:16:14 -0500 Organization: TASC Lines: 36 Message-ID: References: <170078E13S86.SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu> <-LcGkO9RtM7B069yn@wam.umd.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: rshough.read.tasc.com In article <-LcGkO9RtM7B069yn@wam.umd.edu>, rsrodger@wam.umd.edu wrote: > In article <170078E13S86.SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu>, > SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu (Aaron Morris) wrote: > > (worst case scenario (American Foulbrood) calls for > > treatment by fire). > > Pardon a question from an interested reader (no knowledge whatsoever > of beekeeping), but what are "Robber Bees" (wasps?) and what is > American Foulbrood? Robber Bees = honey bees that come from a different hive to steal honey from a weak or uninhabited hive. American Foulbrood (AFB) is a disease of honeybee brood (young bees) - it strikes the pupal stage, and is fatal to the individual bees that it infects. If enough individuals get it, it can kill an entire hive. It is spread by spores, which can contaminate the honey (thus the transference of AFB by robber bees), as well as the combs. AFB spores are not dangerous to humans - our digestive system takes care of that, but the poor bees don't fare so well. The darn spores are very tough to kill, and thus the fire treatment is the method of choice for dealing with serious infections. Hope this answers your questions. Rick **************************************************** * Rick Hough * email: rshough@tasc.com * * TASC * Phone: (617) 942-2000 * * 55 Walkers Brook Drive * FAX: (617) 942-7100 * * Reading, MA 01867 * * **************************************************** SET DISCLAIMER ON The above is my opinion, and not my employer's or anyone else's. From chowe@cthoneybee.win.net Mon Aug 8 12:45:37 EDT 1994 Article: 673 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news.duke.edu!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!swiss.ans.net!malgudi.oar.net!witch!cthoneybee!chowe Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Message-ID: <138@cthoneybee.win.net> References: <31scv9$n9e@search01.news.aol.com> Reply-To: chowe@cthoneybee.win.net (Charles Howe) From: chowe@cthoneybee.win.net (Charles Howe) Date: Sat, 06 Aug 1994 06:04:57 GMT Subject: Re: PENCAP-M (?) Insecticide Lines: 68 In article <31scv9$n9e@search01.news.aol.com>, MTHunzeker (mthunzeker@aol.com) writes: >(This seems to be my night for insecticide questions.) > >A local aerial applicator is pushing PENCAP-M (I think I have the name >right) for treating corn just after it has tassled. According to one >of the commercial beekeepers in our local beekeepers association, >PENCAP is a serious threat to bees, especially in tassling corn, but >the applicator maintains that he "doesn't ever see any bees in corn" >(probably because he is flying 6 feet above it at 60 knots). > >Is this actually a legal use of PENCAP? Does anyone have any >experience with this? Are there studies we can use to demonstrate the >danger of PENCAP? Has anyone been successful in forcing limits on the >use of PENCAP? > >Any available information would be greatly appreciated. > >Mike Hunzeker >MTHunzeker@aol.com >Boulder County Colorado Beekeeper > > Oh yes, Pencap-M is micro-encapsilated methylparathion as I recall. Until Connecticut's regulation was modified to stop the use of this material on tasseling corn we were loosing many colonies to methylparathion poisoning every year in CT. This stuff is particularly deadly to bees since they apparantly gather the stuff along with the pollen (they seem to *not* be able to discriminate between pollen and the capsules of insecticide). Once the stuff is brought back to the colony it gets incorporated into the combs (wax probably) and is left there when the colony expires. When new bees are installed into the colony they may also die from the remaining material in the combs. For our bees corn pollen ranks up there with dandylion pollen as favorites among the top five. When corn tassels my bees pollen production jumps from about 1/3 cup per day to 2 cups of corn pollen. To get a regulation limiting the use of Pencap-M in CT. we started by sending insecticide killed bees to the State Entomologist for analysis. This showed that, as I recall, about 1/2 of the bees were killed by the active ingredient in Pencap-M. If it wasn't 1/2 it was the largest single insecticide killer of bees. At that point, we (the CT. Beekeepers Assn.) hired a lawyer for advice and the process of getting a regulation in CT. stopping the use of Pencap-M on tasseling corn left the Association with a substantial debt. We went through this process over 10 years ago. I don't know if it ended up in a change in the label for other states, but Connecticut's more limiting use restrictions for Pencap-M still stands. It is noteworthy, that after the regulation went into affect the number of insecticide poisonings sharply declined. If more detailed information is required I will try to come up with names and addresses of people who worked closely with the problem at that time. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- | Chuck Howe - Editor | Phone or FAX: (203)491-2338 | | Connecticut Honey Bee | 86, 5 1/2 Mile Road | | INTERNET - CHOWE@CTHONEYBEE.WIN.NET | Goshen, CT. 06756 | | COMPUSERVE - 72726.1437@COMPUSERVE.COM | USA | ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From rsrodger@wam.umd.edu Mon Aug 8 12:45:39 EDT 1994 Article: 674 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news.duke.edu!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!news.umbc.edu!haven.umd.edu!cville-srv.wam.umd.edu!rsrodger From: rsrodger@wam.umd.edu (R S Rodgers) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: What to do with empty hive? Date: Sat, 06 Aug 1994 10:22:17 -0500 Organization: University of Maryland College Park Lines: 10 Message-ID: References: <170078E13S86.SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu> <-LcGkO9RtM7B069yn@wam.umd.edu> Reply-To: rsrodger@wam.umd.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: rac2.wam.umd.edu Originator: rsrodger@rac2.wam.umd.edu In article , rshough@tasc.com (Rick Hough) wrote: > Hope this answers your questions. Yes, thanks. -- Previous .sig deleted because some people couldn't parse "from email _received_ re: a post on comp.sys.powerpc." From roadent@halls1.cc.monash.edu.au Mon Aug 8 12:45:40 EDT 1994 Article: 675 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!msuinfo!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!halls1.cc.monash.edu.au!roadent From: roadent@halls1.cc.monash.edu.au (Adrian Graham DENT - Rodent) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: What to do with empty hive? Date: Sun, 7 Aug 1994 00:45:27 GMT Organization: Halls of Residence, Monash University Lines: 16 Message-ID: References: <170078E13S86.SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: roberts-1f3-03.cc.monash.edu.au In article <170078E13S86.SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu> SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu (Aaron Morris) writes: >From: SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu (Aaron Morris) >Subject: Re: What to do with empty hive? >Date: Wed, 03 Aug 94 10:06:08 EDT >I'm surprised that there isn't more concern about the "Empty Hive" >thread that has been going on the past few days. The scenario was In quick defence of myself, I did express some such concerns (I always do.... I am on a CRUSADE against diseases...my fathers entire apiary was wiped out by AFB) I did actaully reply along that vein, but from my other account, and I don't seem to be able to get the news posting facility on that acount to work... Adrian (trying to help myself this time....) From roadent@halls1.cc.monash.edu.au Mon Aug 8 12:45:41 EDT 1994 Article: 676 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!msuinfo!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!roberts-1f3-03.cc.monash.edu.au!roadent From: roadent@halls1.cc.monash.edu.au (Adrian Graham DENT - Rodent) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: The hive ain't empty... Date: Sun, 7 Aug 1994 00:59:21 GMT Organization: Halls of Residence, Monash University Lines: 31 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: roberts-1f3-03.cc.monash.edu.au In article sandrock@aries.scs.uiuc.edu (Mark Sandrock) writes: >From: sandrock@aries.scs.uiuc.edu (Mark Sandrock) >Today at lunchtime I opened the hive and found a lot of bees crawling >about. They were especially dense on the sunnier side of the hive as That sounds reasonably typical of a colony (to me at least) >opposed to the shady side. I could see that they were busy adding comb >on three frames closest to the side. In fact, these frames looked so >thick with comb that I did not initially try to move them, but instead >removed one of the middle frames. It had some honey cells along the The way I usually open up a hive is to remove one of the edge frames, in your case, the shady side one as it would have less bees and wax on it, then move the others across so that you have room to manipulate them. >top, which I remembered from before, but in the center there appeared >to be brood cells on which the covering was broken. I don't know if Find some literature on AFB, and compare any pictures in it with what you see...also chalk brrod, EFB, and other brood diseases. If you are still in doubt, cut a piece of the affected comb and send it to a bee inspector type place...they will be able to give an accurate diagnosis (free in australia...) apart from all that, good luck, and enjoy. Adrian. From at664@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Mon Aug 8 12:45:42 EDT 1994 Article: 677 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!at664 From: at664@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (R John Northcote) Subject: Re: What do I do about skunks? Message-ID: Sender: news@freenet.carleton.ca (Usenet News Admin) Organization: The National Capital FreeNet, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Date: Sun, 7 Aug 1994 01:11:53 GMT Lines: 16 Skunks will scratch at the entrance and eat the bees as they come out to investigate. I have some bottom boards with 3/8 inch scratches in them from the skunks. I have found a dead skunk in one of my yards but otherwise know of two methods which work. The first is to have a landlord (eg farmer) who shoots them for me with asking - aim for the backbone/neck sho he doesn't 'fire'. THe other method is to inject a raw egg with cynaide or arsenic and bury the egg in front of the hive (one inch or so). You'll find the skunk nearby. Buying cyanide/arseic is a sometimes a problem though - depends on the state/province you live in. -- R John Northcote c/o National Capital Freenet From at664@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Mon Aug 8 12:45:43 EDT 1994 Article: 678 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news.duke.edu!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!at664 From: at664@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (R John Northcote) Subject: Re: 1993 Honey Prices Message-ID: Sender: news@freenet.carleton.ca (Usenet News Admin) Organization: The National Capital FreeNet, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Date: Sun, 7 Aug 1994 01:18:06 GMT Lines: 11 Prices in US are usually by the pound (remember that quaint Measure?). Here in Canada we usually quote honey in pounds as well (except for the government which uses Kilos). In 93 Canadian wholesale prices were in the 60-65 cents/pound range in 45 gal (CDN) barrels. At the time the exchange rate was about 1 CDN$ = .79 US$ (currently 72 cnets). -- R John Northcote c/o National Capital Freenet From sph@usgp4.ATT.COM Mon Aug 8 12:45:44 EDT 1994 Article: 679 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!panther.Gsu.EDU!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!ames!ncar!uchinews!att-out!nntpa!nntpa.cb.att.com!sph From: sph@usgp4.ATT.COM (nac250300-Hill) Subject: old honey Message-ID: Sender: news@nntpa.cb.att.com (Netnews Administration) Nntp-Posting-Host: usgp4.ih.att.com Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories Date: Sun, 7 Aug 1994 17:02:26 GMT Lines: 19 I have one hive of bees down in central Il, and I have 4 gallons of honey left that is 3 - 5 years old. It used to taste pretty good, but it has gotten dark, is crystalized, and does not taste that great anymore. It was not stored in the best of conditions. If I feed this to my bees will it make this year's crop dark and taste old? Or will the bees "freshen it up" somewhat? One more question: I have had this colony for 7 years now, and it was re-queened 2 years before I bought it. Should I consider buying a new queen next year, or should I just let them go as long as they seem strong ( and they looked great yesterday ). Thanks in advance Stephen P. Hill sph@uscbu.ih.att.com From roadent@halls1.cc.monash.edu.au Mon Aug 8 12:45:46 EDT 1994 Article: 680 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!msuinfo!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!roberts-1f3-07.cc.monash.edu.au!roadent From: roadent@halls1.cc.monash.edu.au (Adrian Graham DENT - Rodent) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: old honey Date: Mon, 8 Aug 1994 07:22:30 GMT Organization: Halls of Residence, Monash University Lines: 31 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: roberts-1f3-07.cc.monash.edu.au In article sph@usgp4.ATT.COM (nac250300-Hill) writes: >From: sph@usgp4.ATT.COM (nac250300-Hill) >honey left that is 3 - 5 years old. It used to taste pretty good, but >If I feed this to my bees will it make this year's crop dark and >taste old? Or will the bees "freshen it up" somewhat? Usually bees wont store honey that is given to them in a honey condition, they will just eat it, and use it for brood food, so it shouldn't affect the honey quality. BUT are you sure (if it wasn't stored in good conditions) that it is disease free??? >One more question: I have had this colony for 7 years now, and it was >re-queened 2 years before I bought it. Should I consider buying a new >queen next year, or should I just let them go as long as they seem >strong ( and they looked great yesterday ). Well...the naverage life span of a queen is about two years, so you should have had a few queens since then, although you may not have noticed. Some beekeepers requeen every two to four years, but I only do so if I have an unproducitve hive, or one that is paricularly unpleasant to work with. I also like to requeen if I am splitting a hive, because there is a theory that leaving a "swarm induced" queen will promote the swarm impulse gene... if there is such a thing. Adrian (was I helpful this timt?? hu? huh? was I??) From roh033.mah48d@rohmhaas.com Mon Aug 8 12:45:48 EDT 1994 Article: 681 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsserver.jvnc.net!rohvm1!roh033.mah48d Nntp-Posting-Host: 136.141.220.39 Date: Mon, 8 Aug 1994 07:26:06 -0400 From: roh033.mah48d@rohmhaas.com (John E. Taylor III) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Followup-To: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Distribution: world Subject: Re: What to do with empty hive? Message-ID: References: <170078E13S86.SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu> <31ro0v$8hs@news1.hh.ab.com> , rshough@tasc.com (Rick Hough) wrote: > In article <31ro0v$8hs@news1.hh.ab.com>, Paul.Ferroni@ab.com wrote: > > Ah - it suddenly becomes clear! There are two kinds of "moth balls"!! > There is the kind that my mom uses to keep the moths out of her sweaters > (I forget the chemical name), and then there is Paradichlorobenzene (PDB) > that beekeepers use to deal with Wax moth. The "other" mothballs (the ones you should NOT use) are naphthalene. It's a hydrocarbon (polycyclic hydrocarbon, if you're into details) that would be quite soluble in wax and would thus diffuse readily into the comb. -- John Taylor (W3ZID) | "The opinions expressed are those of the roh033.mah48d@rohmhaas.com | writer and not of Rohm and Haas Company." From altabios@bham.ac.uk Mon Aug 8 12:45:50 EDT 1994 Article: 682 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!panther.Gsu.EDU!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!fulcrum!bham!usenet From: altabios@bham.ac.uk (John E. Fox) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: The hive ain't empty... Date: 8 Aug 1994 12:10:14 GMT Organization: The University of Birmingham, UK Lines: 53 Message-ID: <3257b6$i3o@sun4.bham.ac.uk> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: bcs118.bham.ac.uk X-Newsreader: WinVN version 0.80 In article , sandrock@aries.scs.uiuc.edu (Mark Sandrock) says: > >Since I stirred things up a bit with my questions about empty hives >and robber bees, I thought it might be good to let people know what >I've found since then. > >Today at lunchtime I opened the hive and found a lot of bees crawling >about. They were especially dense on the sunnier side of the hive as >opposed to the shady side. I could see that they were busy adding comb >on three frames closest to the side. In fact, these frames looked so >thick with comb that I did not initially try to move them, but instead >removed one of the middle frames. It had some honey cells along the >top, which I remembered from before, but in the center there appeared >to be brood cells on which the covering was broken. I don't know if >this is a normal appearance for hatched out cells, so this concerned >me somewhat. > >The bees seemed quite calm and gentle. A dozen or two were floating >around the hive, a few seemed to check me out, but they mostly seemed to >ignore me--a rather gratifying attitude to my way of thinking. :-) > >I could easily see dozens of bees crawling around on the frames, and >one thing that puzzled me a bit was they mostly seemed to ignore the >smoke I would puff at them occasionally. Still, it felt reassuring to >have the smoker handy. > >I'm going out of town this weekend, but next week I intend to look at >a few more frames and try to spot the queen and/or active brood cells. > >Anyway, my newbie impression is that a colony has indeed moved in, >but perhaps someone would care to interpret what I've seen so far. > >Thanks again to everyone for the helpful comments. > >Mark Sandrock >-- >Univ. of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign "Fruechte reifen durch die Sonne, >Chemical Sciences Computer Center Menschen durch die Liebe." >505 S. Mathews Ave., Urbana, IL 61801 --Julius Langbehn >Email: sandrock@uiuc.edu Seeing brood cells with the tops broken is a disturbing sign. The only time this should happen is when the new bee is coming out. The cap is then quickly removed and the cell cleaned up for the next occupant. It may be that these contain dead bees and they have been opened by the new workers. It's hard to quantify numbers of bees by Email but you should be seeing frames covered with bees, in their hundreds. Certainly they may not move for smoke, the main effect of smoke is to make them feed and get so full they can't sting you. I would suggest looking for eggs and brood. If they are there, you have a working queen. From SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu Mon Aug 8 12:45:50 EDT 1994 Article: 683 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news.duke.edu!MathWorks.Com!news2.near.net!usenet.elf.com!rpi!rebecca!uacsc2.albany.edu!SYSAM From: SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu (Aaron Morris) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: What to do with empty hive? Date: Mon, 08 Aug 94 10:52:16 EDT Organization: University at Albany, Albany NY 12222 Lines: 69 Message-ID: <1700C98E5S86.SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu> References: <170078E13S86.SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: uacsc2.albany.edu Some final comments on my "Empty Hive" missal. First, I'm glad that readers saw through the flames and took the face value of my post. Bees will do what bees will do, beekeeper or not. There are no value judgments involved. Bees will visit an empty hive, irregardless of the reasons why the hive is empty. Valid reasons or bad excuses don't matter to the bees who see an empty hive as an empty hive. Concerning the moth ball thread, I guess it breaks down into a couple of things: commercial vs hobby beekeeping and greens vs browns (organic vs chemicals). I am a hobby beekeeper with twenty years experience. My beekeeping concerns are small potatoes. I don't have to store large numbers of honey supers and am able to spend more time/labor tending my equipment. My goal in keeping bees is to be outside enjoying the buzz. The hobby is its own reward, the honey harvest is a bonus. I also lean towards the green side. I garden organically whenever possible, although I've been known to resort to herbicides (flower gardens only, never vegetable/consumable gardens) when the weeding task is beyond my ability to handle it organically. I do however, avoid nonorganic pesticides at all costs. Better to lose to the buggers than poison them with chemicals in my book. This explains my distaste for fumigants, sanctioned or not. I too got out my copy of "The_Hive_and_the_Honeybee" and read up on fumigants. Finding a reference that says that it's ok to use PDB and/or moth crystals doesn't make it ok for ME to use it/them. Knowing that the U.S. government says that after three days of airing out the supers they will be "OK" doesn't necessarily give me comfort, although I ALWAYS believe whatever the governments says ;-) . As a small potatoes beekeeper, I am able to wrap ALL of my honey supers in plastic garbage bags and with diligence, I can avoid problems with wax moths. I have no need to resort to fumigants when mechanics will serve my needs. I would probably sing a different tune were my operation multiplied a hundred fold, but I am more comfortable knowing that my honey has not been exposed to fumigants, whether used properly or not. When a query is posted about whether honey is exposed to chemicals, the answer can't be "No, it was produced in honey supers that were exposed to chemicals in a sanctioned manner", the answer is "Yes, the honey has been exposed to chemicals". It's up to the consumer to decide to what degree they are comfortable with the USDA sanctioned exposure. Laying all my cards on the table, I'll admit to using Apistan. I've lost too many hives to mites, and there is no alternative at the present time, so USDA sanctions away, I use the strips and follow the "moving target" directions. I'm not reassured by following the directions and I know that at least on a molecular level, my honey contains a contaminate that it did not before I started using the strips. I'm not comfortable with whatever level of contaminates there may or may not be, but given the alternatives I'll use the strips and live with the discomfort. This is not meant to start off an organic vs chemicals flame war, that's already covered on rec.gardens. I'll continue to avoid fumigants, I'll continue to use Apistan, I'll continue to monitor progress on genetic resistance, and I'll continue to be comforted in knowing that the honey produced by my bees has a lower level of exposure to sanctioned chemicals than most. Cheers! Aaron Morris P.S. On a different note, while browsing "The_Hive_and_the_Honeybee" I stumbled across a reference to a US president in the '70s who was a real believer in the positive benefits of bee pollen, but the reference didn't say which US president (Nixon, Ford, Carter, Regan). I'll bet it was Carter, but does anyone know for sure? From SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu Mon Aug 8 12:45:52 EDT 1994 Article: 684 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news.duke.edu!MathWorks.Com!news2.near.net!usenet.elf.com!rpi!rebecca!uacsc2.albany.edu!SYSAM From: SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu (Aaron Morris) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: "Mothballs" as a fumigant? Date: Mon, 08 Aug 94 11:12:33 EDT Organization: University at Albany, Albany NY 12222 Lines: 30 Message-ID: <1700C9DA1S86.SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: uacsc2.albany.edu >In article , >rshough@tasc.com (Rick Hough) wrote: > >> ... >> Ah - it suddenly becomes clear! There are two kinds of "moth balls"!! >> There is the kind that my mom uses to keep the moths out of her >> sweaters (I forget the chemical name), and then there is >> Paradichlorobenzene (PDB) that beekeepers use to deal with Wax moth. > >The "other" mothballs (the ones you should NOT use) are naphthalene. >It's a hydrocarbon (polycyclic hydrocarbon, if you're into details) >that would be quite soluble in wax and would thus diffuse readily into >the comb. >-- >John Taylor (W3ZID) | "The opinions expressed are those of the >roh033.mah48d@rohmhaas.com | writer and not of Rohm and Haas Company. " Thanks to Rick and especially John for clarifying this. Quite a difference there, no? That's one thing that bothers me about the Information Superhighway: the ability to disperse misinformation worldwide. Perhaps there is more to be learned from Adrian's sig ("No help at All!?") than meets the eye! (Not attributing misinformation to Adrian, just acknowledging his sig). Again, thanks to those who set this record straight! Keep up the good work! Perhaps there should be a very explicit section in the FAQ along the lines "Can I use my mother's moth balls to control wax moths?"? Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! From SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu Mon Aug 8 12:45:52 EDT 1994 Article: 685 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news.duke.edu!MathWorks.Com!news2.near.net!usenet.elf.com!rpi!rebecca!uacsc2.albany.edu!SYSAM From: SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu (Aaron Morris) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: The hive ain't empty... Date: Mon, 08 Aug 94 11:14:44 EDT Organization: University at Albany, Albany NY 12222 Lines: 42 Message-ID: <1700C9E28S86.SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: uacsc2.albany.edu In article sandrock@aries.scs.uiuc.edu (Mark Sandrock) writes: > ... one of the middle frames ... had some honey cells along the >top, which I remembered from before, but in the center there appeared >to be brood cells on which the covering was broken. I don't know if >this is a normal appearance for hatched out cells, so this concerned >me somewhat. This COULD be a bad sign. Normal appearance for hatched out cells is a bee emerging/chewing its way through the cell cap. If there are no emerging bees evident there may me reasons for concern. If there are dead bees behind the broken caps there is definite cause for concern, as this is a symptom of American Foulbrood. The good news is that you're poking around in the hive! Check again, but go throught the entire hive. The capping pattern as you described may be normal, but it's hard to say without knowing what things looked like surrounding that frame. It may be the case that the middle frame you picked was an area of the brood chamber that had just hatched all of the bees and had not yet been reused by the queen. Hopefully, this is the case. Or, it may be indicative of a brood disease. The things to look for are whether the cells are empty and clean, ready for the next generation, and how the pattern you observed compares to the pattern of the surrounding frames. Also, use your other senses: sound and smell. These are harder senses to develope and exploit when working your bees, but they are very valuable to the beekeeper. Listen to the buzzing of the bees. Is it a busy, hive at work sort of sound (that's the impression I get from your description) or is it a stressed tone? It's hard to describe the difference, and perhaps the destinction only comes with experience. Smell is also important. Does the hive smell normal? Literature describes the smell of foulbrood as sickly sweet, but it's hard to put those words into an olfactory experience other than to experience it. And if you are able to experience it, learn it(!), because it's not an experience you'll care to oft' repeat. Otherwise, it sounds like you're getting into the experience of beekeeping. Good luck with your subsequent inspections! Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! From mthunzeker@aol.com Fri Aug 12 10:57:16 EDT 1994 Article: 665 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!uunet!newstf01.cr1.aol.com!search01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: mthunzeker@aol.com (MTHunzeker) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Insecticide in bee venom? Date: 4 Aug 1994 23:49:05 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 16 Sender: news@search01.news.aol.com Message-ID: <31scrh$n7j@search01.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: search01.news.aol.com One of the members of our local beekeepers association was checking his colonies after finding some spray kill and got stung. (They sure don't like to get sprayed!) His reaction was quite a bit more severe than usual with a very large red area and swelling. He was worried he had developed a serious allergic reaction, but has been stung numerous times since then and only had a standard (mild) response. So we are wondering if it is possible for a bee to pass on an insecticide in her venom? Has any research been performed in this area? Mike Hunzeker MTHunzeker@aol.com Boulder County Colorado Beekeeper From mthunzeker@aol.com Fri Aug 12 10:57:17 EDT 1994 Article: 666 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!uunet!newstf01.cr1.aol.com!search01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: mthunzeker@aol.com (MTHunzeker) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: PENCAP-M (?) Insecticide Date: 4 Aug 1994 23:51:05 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 20 Sender: root@search01.news.aol.com Message-ID: <31scv9$n9e@search01.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: search01.news.aol.com (This seems to be my night for insecticide questions.) A local aerial applicator is pushing PENCAP-M (I think I have the name right) for treating corn just after it has tassled. According to one of the commercial beekeepers in our local beekeepers association, PENCAP is a serious threat to bees, especially in tassling corn, but the applicator maintains that he "doesn't ever see any bees in corn" (probably because he is flying 6 feet above it at 60 knots). Is this actually a legal use of PENCAP? Does anyone have any experience with this? Are there studies we can use to demonstrate the danger of PENCAP? Has anyone been successful in forcing limits on the use of PENCAP? Any available information would be greatly appreciated. Mike Hunzeker MTHunzeker@aol.com Boulder County Colorado Beekeeper From adamf@Hopper.itc.Virginia.EDU Fri Aug 12 10:57:18 EDT 1994 Article: 667 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!murdoch!Hopper.itc.Virginia.EDU!adamf From: adamf@Hopper.itc.Virginia.EDU (Adam Finkelstein) Subject: Re: PENCAP-M (?) Insecticide Message-ID: Sender: usenet@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU Organization: Public Access Internet at UVa. References: <31scv9$n9e@search01.news.aol.com> Date: Fri, 5 Aug 1994 12:20:35 GMT Lines: 24 In article <31scv9$n9e@search01.news.aol.com>, MTHunzeker wrote: >A local aerial applicator is pushing PENCAP-M (I think I have the name >right) for treating corn just after it has tassled. According to one >of the commercial beekeepers in our local beekeepers association, >PENCAP is a serious threat to bees, especially in tassling corn, but >the applicator maintains that he "doesn't ever see any bees in corn" >(probably because he is flying 6 feet above it at 60 knots). Mike, check with your state apiarist, about the law. Here in VA, if there are known bees present, an applicator must notify the beekeeeper well ahead of time before application, for it is illegal to spray during bee flight as per the label. PENCAP-M resembles pollen, and since bees are working corn, gathering pollen, PENCAP-M, applied at this time , would be deadly to colonies foraging. The applicator needs to know that there are bees present. Involve your Dept. of Agriculture in this issue, bee inspection or the State apiarist's office, but get somebody on the situation. Label laws are very hard to enforce in bee kills. Adam (VA Bee inspector) -- ============================================================================ Adam Finkelstein adamf@hopper.itc.virginia.edu adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu =============================================== |Bees To Please| ======= From SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu Fri Aug 12 10:57:19 EDT 1994 Article: 668 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news.duke.edu!MathWorks.Com!news2.near.net!usenet.elf.com!rpi!rebecca!uacsc2.albany.edu!SYSAM From: SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu (Aaron Morris) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Insecticide in bee venom? Date: Fri, 05 Aug 94 08:43:43 EDT Organization: University at Albany, Albany NY 12222 Lines: 13 Message-ID: <170097AC3S86.SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu> References: <31scrh$n7j@search01.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: uacsc2.albany.edu In article <31scrh$n7j@search01.news.aol.com> mthunzeker@aol.com (MTHunzeker) writes: >So we are wondering if it is possible for a bee to pass on an >insecticide in her venom? Has any research been performed in this >area? Stating up front that this is mere speculation on my part, I would imagine that insecticide would do in/off/kill a bee before there would be time for any insecticidal residues to be absorbed/transferred to bee venom. Furthermore, I'd speculate that a poisoned bee would not be up to the task of defending a hive or stinging a beekeeper: she'd be too busy kicking the bucket! From rsrodger@wam.umd.edu Fri Aug 12 10:57:20 EDT 1994 Article: 669 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news.duke.edu!eff!news.umbc.edu!haven.umd.edu!cville-srv.wam.umd.edu!rsrodger From: rsrodger@wam.umd.edu (R S Rodgers) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: What to do with empty hive? Date: Fri, 05 Aug 1994 12:14:54 -0500 Organization: University of Maryland College Park Lines: 18 Message-ID: <-LcGkO9RtM7B069yn@wam.umd.edu> References: <170078E13S86.SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu> Reply-To: rsrodger@wam.umd.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: rac6.wam.umd.edu Originator: rsrodger@rac6.wam.umd.edu In article <170078E13S86.SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu>, SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu (Aaron Morris) wrote: > (worst case scenario (American Foulbrood) calls for > treatment by fire). Pardon a question from an interested reader (no knowledge whatsoever of beekeeping), but what are "Robber Bees" (wasps?) and what is American Foulbrood? I ask because I'm curious as to what kinds of diseases strike bees. In my pesticide class, we covered the use of biological agents instead of chemical pesticides (fungi, etc.), but nothing about diseases that strike beneficial insects. -- Previous .sig deleted because some people couldn't parse "from email _received_ re: a post on comp.sys.powerpc." From sandrock@aries.scs.uiuc.edu Fri Aug 12 10:57:22 EDT 1994 Article: 670 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news.duke.edu!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!overload.lbl.gov!lll-winken.llnl.gov!fnnews.fnal.gov!mp.cs.niu.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!aries!sandrock From: sandrock@aries.scs.uiuc.edu (Mark Sandrock) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: The hive ain't empty... Date: 5 Aug 94 20:05:12 GMT Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana Lines: 38 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: aries.scs.uiuc.edu Since I stirred things up a bit with my questions about empty hives and robber bees, I thought it might be good to let people know what I've found since then. Today at lunchtime I opened the hive and found a lot of bees crawling about. They were especially dense on the sunnier side of the hive as opposed to the shady side. I could see that they were busy adding comb on three frames closest to the side. In fact, these frames looked so thick with comb that I did not initially try to move them, but instead removed one of the middle frames. It had some honey cells along the top, which I remembered from before, but in the center there appeared to be brood cells on which the covering was broken. I don't know if this is a normal appearance for hatched out cells, so this concerned me somewhat. The bees seemed quite calm and gentle. A dozen or two were floating around the hive, a few seemed to check me out, but they mostly seemed to ignore me--a rather gratifying attitude to my way of thinking. :-) I could easily see dozens of bees crawling around on the frames, and one thing that puzzled me a bit was they mostly seemed to ignore the smoke I would puff at them occasionally. Still, it felt reassuring to have the smoker handy. I'm going out of town this weekend, but next week I intend to look at a few more frames and try to spot the queen and/or active brood cells. Anyway, my newbie impression is that a colony has indeed moved in, but perhaps someone would care to interpret what I've seen so far. Thanks again to everyone for the helpful comments. Mark Sandrock -- Univ. of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign "Fruechte reifen durch die Sonne, Chemical Sciences Computer Center Menschen durch die Liebe." 505 S. Mathews Ave., Urbana, IL 61801 --Julius Langbehn Email: sandrock@uiuc.edu From rshough@tasc.com Fri Aug 12 10:57:23 EDT 1994 Article: 671 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news.duke.edu!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!uunet!newsserver.tasc.com!newsserver.read.tasc.com!rshough.read.tasc.com!user From: rshough@tasc.com (Rick Hough) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: What to do with empty hive? Date: Fri, 05 Aug 1994 17:56:06 -0500 Organization: TASC Lines: 55 Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <170078E13S86.SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu> <31ro0v$8hs@news1.hh.ab.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: rshough.read.tasc.com In article <31ro0v$8hs@news1.hh.ab.com>, Paul.Ferroni@ab.com wrote: > In article <170078E13S86.SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu>, SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu (Aaron Morris) writes: > > I'm surprised that there isn't more concern about the "Empty Hive" > > thread that has been going on the past few days. > > [...munch...] > > > And while I'm on my soapbox, does anyone else have a problem with the > > moth balls on top of the frames suggestion? Especially when the very > > same posting states that the wax WILL absorb moth ball chemicals! > > Can you spell honey contamination? I can just picture a honey judge: > > "Hmmm. Nice color. Pleasant order with just the right subtle > > undertones of moth balls!" Glad I am that I've never had the pleasure. > > > > I am the poster of the mothballs suggestion... My (longwinded) comments > follow. [...munch...] > NOTE: No mention of Paradichlorobenzene (moth balls) in this section. Ah - it suddenly becomes clear! There are two kinds of "moth balls"!! There is the kind that my mom uses to keep the moths out of her sweaters (I forget the chemical name), and then there is Paradichlorobenzene (PDB) that beekeepers use to deal with Wax moth. I'm under the impression that use of PDB on stored comb is widespread, and not detrimental to the comb, although there is a need to air out the combs for several days prior to putting them on the hives. While my mom's moth balls would probably kill the wax moth, I'm pretty sure that there is a problem with that chemical staying in the wax. Besides, my mom's moth balls aren't labeled (read legal) for use on combs (I think PDB is labeled for use on stored comb... isn't it??) Any comment, Aaron?? > The bottom line is that its obviously best to keep stong hives, and store > your empty supers in sealed bags, in cold areas (freezing) where possible. Amen to that!! Have a good weekend, all! Rick Hough **************************************************** * Rick Hough * email: rshough@tasc.com * * TASC * Phone: (617) 942-2000 * * 55 Walkers Brook Drive * FAX: (617) 942-7100 * * Reading, MA 01867 * * **************************************************** SET DISCLAIMER ON The above is my opinion, and not my employer's or anyone else's. From rshough@tasc.com Fri Aug 12 10:57:24 EDT 1994 Article: 672 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news.duke.edu!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!uunet!newsserver.tasc.com!newsserver.read.tasc.com!rshough.read.tasc.com!user From: rshough@tasc.com (Rick Hough) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: What to do with empty hive? Date: Fri, 05 Aug 1994 18:16:14 -0500 Organization: TASC Lines: 36 Message-ID: References: <170078E13S86.SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu> <-LcGkO9RtM7B069yn@wam.umd.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: rshough.read.tasc.com In article <-LcGkO9RtM7B069yn@wam.umd.edu>, rsrodger@wam.umd.edu wrote: > In article <170078E13S86.SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu>, > SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu (Aaron Morris) wrote: > > (worst case scenario (American Foulbrood) calls for > > treatment by fire). > > Pardon a question from an interested reader (no knowledge whatsoever > of beekeeping), but what are "Robber Bees" (wasps?) and what is > American Foulbrood? Robber Bees = honey bees that come from a different hive to steal honey from a weak or uninhabited hive. American Foulbrood (AFB) is a disease of honeybee brood (young bees) - it strikes the pupal stage, and is fatal to the individual bees that it infects. If enough individuals get it, it can kill an entire hive. It is spread by spores, which can contaminate the honey (thus the transference of AFB by robber bees), as well as the combs. AFB spores are not dangerous to humans - our digestive system takes care of that, but the poor bees don't fare so well. The darn spores are very tough to kill, and thus the fire treatment is the method of choice for dealing with serious infections. Hope this answers your questions. Rick **************************************************** * Rick Hough * email: rshough@tasc.com * * TASC * Phone: (617) 942-2000 * * 55 Walkers Brook Drive * FAX: (617) 942-7100 * * Reading, MA 01867 * * **************************************************** SET DISCLAIMER ON The above is my opinion, and not my employer's or anyone else's. From chowe@cthoneybee.win.net Fri Aug 12 10:57:25 EDT 1994 Article: 673 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news.duke.edu!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!swiss.ans.net!malgudi.oar.net!witch!cthoneybee!chowe Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Message-ID: <138@cthoneybee.win.net> References: <31scv9$n9e@search01.news.aol.com> Reply-To: chowe@cthoneybee.win.net (Charles Howe) From: chowe@cthoneybee.win.net (Charles Howe) Date: Sat, 06 Aug 1994 06:04:57 GMT Subject: Re: PENCAP-M (?) Insecticide Lines: 68 In article <31scv9$n9e@search01.news.aol.com>, MTHunzeker (mthunzeker@aol.com) writes: >(This seems to be my night for insecticide questions.) > >A local aerial applicator is pushing PENCAP-M (I think I have the name >right) for treating corn just after it has tassled. According to one >of the commercial beekeepers in our local beekeepers association, >PENCAP is a serious threat to bees, especially in tassling corn, but >the applicator maintains that he "doesn't ever see any bees in corn" >(probably because he is flying 6 feet above it at 60 knots). > >Is this actually a legal use of PENCAP? Does anyone have any >experience with this? Are there studies we can use to demonstrate the >danger of PENCAP? Has anyone been successful in forcing limits on the >use of PENCAP? > >Any available information would be greatly appreciated. > >Mike Hunzeker >MTHunzeker@aol.com >Boulder County Colorado Beekeeper > > Oh yes, Pencap-M is micro-encapsilated methylparathion as I recall. Until Connecticut's regulation was modified to stop the use of this material on tasseling corn we were loosing many colonies to methylparathion poisoning every year in CT. This stuff is particularly deadly to bees since they apparantly gather the stuff along with the pollen (they seem to *not* be able to discriminate between pollen and the capsules of insecticide). Once the stuff is brought back to the colony it gets incorporated into the combs (wax probably) and is left there when the colony expires. When new bees are installed into the colony they may also die from the remaining material in the combs. For our bees corn pollen ranks up there with dandylion pollen as favorites among the top five. When corn tassels my bees pollen production jumps from about 1/3 cup per day to 2 cups of corn pollen. To get a regulation limiting the use of Pencap-M in CT. we started by sending insecticide killed bees to the State Entomologist for analysis. This showed that, as I recall, about 1/2 of the bees were killed by the active ingredient in Pencap-M. If it wasn't 1/2 it was the largest single insecticide killer of bees. At that point, we (the CT. Beekeepers Assn.) hired a lawyer for advice and the process of getting a regulation in CT. stopping the use of Pencap-M on tasseling corn left the Association with a substantial debt. We went through this process over 10 years ago. I don't know if it ended up in a change in the label for other states, but Connecticut's more limiting use restrictions for Pencap-M still stands. It is noteworthy, that after the regulation went into affect the number of insecticide poisonings sharply declined. If more detailed information is required I will try to come up with names and addresses of people who worked closely with the problem at that time. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- | Chuck Howe - Editor | Phone or FAX: (203)491-2338 | | Connecticut Honey Bee | 86, 5 1/2 Mile Road | | INTERNET - CHOWE@CTHONEYBEE.WIN.NET | Goshen, CT. 06756 | | COMPUSERVE - 72726.1437@COMPUSERVE.COM | USA | ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From rsrodger@wam.umd.edu Fri Aug 12 10:57:26 EDT 1994 Article: 674 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news.duke.edu!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!news.umbc.edu!haven.umd.edu!cville-srv.wam.umd.edu!rsrodger From: rsrodger@wam.umd.edu (R S Rodgers) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: What to do with empty hive? Date: Sat, 06 Aug 1994 10:22:17 -0500 Organization: University of Maryland College Park Lines: 10 Message-ID: References: <170078E13S86.SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu> <-LcGkO9RtM7B069yn@wam.umd.edu> Reply-To: rsrodger@wam.umd.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: rac2.wam.umd.edu Originator: rsrodger@rac2.wam.umd.edu In article , rshough@tasc.com (Rick Hough) wrote: > Hope this answers your questions. Yes, thanks. -- Previous .sig deleted because some people couldn't parse "from email _received_ re: a post on comp.sys.powerpc." From roadent@halls1.cc.monash.edu.au Fri Aug 12 10:57:27 EDT 1994 Article: 675 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!msuinfo!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!halls1.cc.monash.edu.au!roadent From: roadent@halls1.cc.monash.edu.au (Adrian Graham DENT - Rodent) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: What to do with empty hive? Date: Sun, 7 Aug 1994 00:45:27 GMT Organization: Halls of Residence, Monash University Lines: 16 Message-ID: References: <170078E13S86.SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: roberts-1f3-03.cc.monash.edu.au In article <170078E13S86.SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu> SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu (Aaron Morris) writes: >From: SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu (Aaron Morris) >Subject: Re: What to do with empty hive? >Date: Wed, 03 Aug 94 10:06:08 EDT >I'm surprised that there isn't more concern about the "Empty Hive" >thread that has been going on the past few days. The scenario was In quick defence of myself, I did express some such concerns (I always do.... I am on a CRUSADE against diseases...my fathers entire apiary was wiped out by AFB) I did actaully reply along that vein, but from my other account, and I don't seem to be able to get the news posting facility on that acount to work... Adrian (trying to help myself this time....) From roadent@halls1.cc.monash.edu.au Fri Aug 12 10:57:28 EDT 1994 Article: 676 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!msuinfo!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!roberts-1f3-03.cc.monash.edu.au!roadent From: roadent@halls1.cc.monash.edu.au (Adrian Graham DENT - Rodent) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: The hive ain't empty... Date: Sun, 7 Aug 1994 00:59:21 GMT Organization: Halls of Residence, Monash University Lines: 31 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: roberts-1f3-03.cc.monash.edu.au In article sandrock@aries.scs.uiuc.edu (Mark Sandrock) writes: >From: sandrock@aries.scs.uiuc.edu (Mark Sandrock) >Today at lunchtime I opened the hive and found a lot of bees crawling >about. They were especially dense on the sunnier side of the hive as That sounds reasonably typical of a colony (to me at least) >opposed to the shady side. I could see that they were busy adding comb >on three frames closest to the side. In fact, these frames looked so >thick with comb that I did not initially try to move them, but instead >removed one of the middle frames. It had some honey cells along the The way I usually open up a hive is to remove one of the edge frames, in your case, the shady side one as it would have less bees and wax on it, then move the others across so that you have room to manipulate them. >top, which I remembered from before, but in the center there appeared >to be brood cells on which the covering was broken. I don't know if Find some literature on AFB, and compare any pictures in it with what you see...also chalk brrod, EFB, and other brood diseases. If you are still in doubt, cut a piece of the affected comb and send it to a bee inspector type place...they will be able to give an accurate diagnosis (free in australia...) apart from all that, good luck, and enjoy. Adrian. From at664@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Fri Aug 12 10:57:29 EDT 1994 Article: 677 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!at664 From: at664@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (R John Northcote) Subject: Re: What do I do about skunks? Message-ID: Sender: news@freenet.carleton.ca (Usenet News Admin) Organization: The National Capital FreeNet, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Date: Sun, 7 Aug 1994 01:11:53 GMT Lines: 16 Skunks will scratch at the entrance and eat the bees as they come out to investigate. I have some bottom boards with 3/8 inch scratches in them from the skunks. I have found a dead skunk in one of my yards but otherwise know of two methods which work. The first is to have a landlord (eg farmer) who shoots them for me with asking - aim for the backbone/neck sho he doesn't 'fire'. THe other method is to inject a raw egg with cynaide or arsenic and bury the egg in front of the hive (one inch or so). You'll find the skunk nearby. Buying cyanide/arseic is a sometimes a problem though - depends on the state/province you live in. -- R John Northcote c/o National Capital Freenet From at664@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Fri Aug 12 10:57:30 EDT 1994 Article: 678 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news.duke.edu!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!at664 From: at664@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (R John Northcote) Subject: Re: 1993 Honey Prices Message-ID: Sender: news@freenet.carleton.ca (Usenet News Admin) Organization: The National Capital FreeNet, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Date: Sun, 7 Aug 1994 01:18:06 GMT Lines: 11 Prices in US are usually by the pound (remember that quaint Measure?). Here in Canada we usually quote honey in pounds as well (except for the government which uses Kilos). In 93 Canadian wholesale prices were in the 60-65 cents/pound range in 45 gal (CDN) barrels. At the time the exchange rate was about 1 CDN$ = .79 US$ (currently 72 cnets). -- R John Northcote c/o National Capital Freenet From sph@usgp4.ATT.COM Fri Aug 12 10:57:31 EDT 1994 Article: 679 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!panther.Gsu.EDU!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!ames!ncar!uchinews!att-out!nntpa!nntpa.cb.att.com!sph From: sph@usgp4.ATT.COM (nac250300-Hill) Subject: old honey Message-ID: Sender: news@nntpa.cb.att.com (Netnews Administration) Nntp-Posting-Host: usgp4.ih.att.com Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories Date: Sun, 7 Aug 1994 17:02:26 GMT Lines: 19 I have one hive of bees down in central Il, and I have 4 gallons of honey left that is 3 - 5 years old. It used to taste pretty good, but it has gotten dark, is crystalized, and does not taste that great anymore. It was not stored in the best of conditions. If I feed this to my bees will it make this year's crop dark and taste old? Or will the bees "freshen it up" somewhat? One more question: I have had this colony for 7 years now, and it was re-queened 2 years before I bought it. Should I consider buying a new queen next year, or should I just let them go as long as they seem strong ( and they looked great yesterday ). Thanks in advance Stephen P. Hill sph@uscbu.ih.att.com From roadent@halls1.cc.monash.edu.au Fri Aug 12 10:57:31 EDT 1994 Article: 680 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!msuinfo!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!roberts-1f3-07.cc.monash.edu.au!roadent From: roadent@halls1.cc.monash.edu.au (Adrian Graham DENT - Rodent) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: old honey Date: Mon, 8 Aug 1994 07:22:30 GMT Organization: Halls of Residence, Monash University Lines: 31 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: roberts-1f3-07.cc.monash.edu.au In article sph@usgp4.ATT.COM (nac250300-Hill) writes: >From: sph@usgp4.ATT.COM (nac250300-Hill) >honey left that is 3 - 5 years old. It used to taste pretty good, but >If I feed this to my bees will it make this year's crop dark and >taste old? Or will the bees "freshen it up" somewhat? Usually bees wont store honey that is given to them in a honey condition, they will just eat it, and use it for brood food, so it shouldn't affect the honey quality. BUT are you sure (if it wasn't stored in good conditions) that it is disease free??? >One more question: I have had this colony for 7 years now, and it was >re-queened 2 years before I bought it. Should I consider buying a new >queen next year, or should I just let them go as long as they seem >strong ( and they looked great yesterday ). Well...the naverage life span of a queen is about two years, so you should have had a few queens since then, although you may not have noticed. Some beekeepers requeen every two to four years, but I only do so if I have an unproducitve hive, or one that is paricularly unpleasant to work with. I also like to requeen if I am splitting a hive, because there is a theory that leaving a "swarm induced" queen will promote the swarm impulse gene... if there is such a thing. Adrian (was I helpful this timt?? hu? huh? was I??) From roh033.mah48d@rohmhaas.com Fri Aug 12 10:57:32 EDT 1994 Article: 681 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsserver.jvnc.net!rohvm1!roh033.mah48d Nntp-Posting-Host: 136.141.220.39 Date: Mon, 8 Aug 1994 07:26:06 -0400 From: roh033.mah48d@rohmhaas.com (John E. Taylor III) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Followup-To: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Distribution: world Subject: Re: What to do with empty hive? Message-ID: References: <170078E13S86.SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu> <31ro0v$8hs@news1.hh.ab.com> , rshough@tasc.com (Rick Hough) wrote: > In article <31ro0v$8hs@news1.hh.ab.com>, Paul.Ferroni@ab.com wrote: > > Ah - it suddenly becomes clear! There are two kinds of "moth balls"!! > There is the kind that my mom uses to keep the moths out of her sweaters > (I forget the chemical name), and then there is Paradichlorobenzene (PDB) > that beekeepers use to deal with Wax moth. The "other" mothballs (the ones you should NOT use) are naphthalene. It's a hydrocarbon (polycyclic hydrocarbon, if you're into details) that would be quite soluble in wax and would thus diffuse readily into the comb. -- John Taylor (W3ZID) | "The opinions expressed are those of the roh033.mah48d@rohmhaas.com | writer and not of Rohm and Haas Company." From altabios@bham.ac.uk Fri Aug 12 10:57:34 EDT 1994 Article: 682 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!panther.Gsu.EDU!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!fulcrum!bham!usenet From: altabios@bham.ac.uk (John E. Fox) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: The hive ain't empty... Date: 8 Aug 1994 12:10:14 GMT Organization: The University of Birmingham, UK Lines: 53 Message-ID: <3257b6$i3o@sun4.bham.ac.uk> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: bcs118.bham.ac.uk X-Newsreader: WinVN version 0.80 In article , sandrock@aries.scs.uiuc.edu (Mark Sandrock) says: > >Since I stirred things up a bit with my questions about empty hives >and robber bees, I thought it might be good to let people know what >I've found since then. > >Today at lunchtime I opened the hive and found a lot of bees crawling >about. They were especially dense on the sunnier side of the hive as >opposed to the shady side. I could see that they were busy adding comb >on three frames closest to the side. In fact, these frames looked so >thick with comb that I did not initially try to move them, but instead >removed one of the middle frames. It had some honey cells along the >top, which I remembered from before, but in the center there appeared >to be brood cells on which the covering was broken. I don't know if >this is a normal appearance for hatched out cells, so this concerned >me somewhat. > >The bees seemed quite calm and gentle. A dozen or two were floating >around the hive, a few seemed to check me out, but they mostly seemed to >ignore me--a rather gratifying attitude to my way of thinking. :-) > >I could easily see dozens of bees crawling around on the frames, and >one thing that puzzled me a bit was they mostly seemed to ignore the >smoke I would puff at them occasionally. Still, it felt reassuring to >have the smoker handy. > >I'm going out of town this weekend, but next week I intend to look at >a few more frames and try to spot the queen and/or active brood cells. > >Anyway, my newbie impression is that a colony has indeed moved in, >but perhaps someone would care to interpret what I've seen so far. > >Thanks again to everyone for the helpful comments. > >Mark Sandrock >-- >Univ. of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign "Fruechte reifen durch die Sonne, >Chemical Sciences Computer Center Menschen durch die Liebe." >505 S. Mathews Ave., Urbana, IL 61801 --Julius Langbehn >Email: sandrock@uiuc.edu Seeing brood cells with the tops broken is a disturbing sign. The only time this should happen is when the new bee is coming out. The cap is then quickly removed and the cell cleaned up for the next occupant. It may be that these contain dead bees and they have been opened by the new workers. It's hard to quantify numbers of bees by Email but you should be seeing frames covered with bees, in their hundreds. Certainly they may not move for smoke, the main effect of smoke is to make them feed and get so full they can't sting you. I would suggest looking for eggs and brood. If they are there, you have a working queen. From SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu Fri Aug 12 10:57:35 EDT 1994 Article: 683 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news.duke.edu!MathWorks.Com!news2.near.net!usenet.elf.com!rpi!rebecca!uacsc2.albany.edu!SYSAM From: SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu (Aaron Morris) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: What to do with empty hive? Date: Mon, 08 Aug 94 10:52:16 EDT Organization: University at Albany, Albany NY 12222 Lines: 69 Message-ID: <1700C98E5S86.SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu> References: <170078E13S86.SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: uacsc2.albany.edu Some final comments on my "Empty Hive" missal. First, I'm glad that readers saw through the flames and took the face value of my post. Bees will do what bees will do, beekeeper or not. There are no value judgments involved. Bees will visit an empty hive, irregardless of the reasons why the hive is empty. Valid reasons or bad excuses don't matter to the bees who see an empty hive as an empty hive. Concerning the moth ball thread, I guess it breaks down into a couple of things: commercial vs hobby beekeeping and greens vs browns (organic vs chemicals). I am a hobby beekeeper with twenty years experience. My beekeeping concerns are small potatoes. I don't have to store large numbers of honey supers and am able to spend more time/labor tending my equipment. My goal in keeping bees is to be outside enjoying the buzz. The hobby is its own reward, the honey harvest is a bonus. I also lean towards the green side. I garden organically whenever possible, although I've been known to resort to herbicides (flower gardens only, never vegetable/consumable gardens) when the weeding task is beyond my ability to handle it organically. I do however, avoid nonorganic pesticides at all costs. Better to lose to the buggers than poison them with chemicals in my book. This explains my distaste for fumigants, sanctioned or not. I too got out my copy of "The_Hive_and_the_Honeybee" and read up on fumigants. Finding a reference that says that it's ok to use PDB and/or moth crystals doesn't make it ok for ME to use it/them. Knowing that the U.S. government says that after three days of airing out the supers they will be "OK" doesn't necessarily give me comfort, although I ALWAYS believe whatever the governments says ;-) . As a small potatoes beekeeper, I am able to wrap ALL of my honey supers in plastic garbage bags and with diligence, I can avoid problems with wax moths. I have no need to resort to fumigants when mechanics will serve my needs. I would probably sing a different tune were my operation multiplied a hundred fold, but I am more comfortable knowing that my honey has not been exposed to fumigants, whether used properly or not. When a query is posted about whether honey is exposed to chemicals, the answer can't be "No, it was produced in honey supers that were exposed to chemicals in a sanctioned manner", the answer is "Yes, the honey has been exposed to chemicals". It's up to the consumer to decide to what degree they are comfortable with the USDA sanctioned exposure. Laying all my cards on the table, I'll admit to using Apistan. I've lost too many hives to mites, and there is no alternative at the present time, so USDA sanctions away, I use the strips and follow the "moving target" directions. I'm not reassured by following the directions and I know that at least on a molecular level, my honey contains a contaminate that it did not before I started using the strips. I'm not comfortable with whatever level of contaminates there may or may not be, but given the alternatives I'll use the strips and live with the discomfort. This is not meant to start off an organic vs chemicals flame war, that's already covered on rec.gardens. I'll continue to avoid fumigants, I'll continue to use Apistan, I'll continue to monitor progress on genetic resistance, and I'll continue to be comforted in knowing that the honey produced by my bees has a lower level of exposure to sanctioned chemicals than most. Cheers! Aaron Morris P.S. On a different note, while browsing "The_Hive_and_the_Honeybee" I stumbled across a reference to a US president in the '70s who was a real believer in the positive benefits of bee pollen, but the reference didn't say which US president (Nixon, Ford, Carter, Regan). I'll bet it was Carter, but does anyone know for sure? From SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu Fri Aug 12 10:57:36 EDT 1994 Article: 684 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news.duke.edu!MathWorks.Com!news2.near.net!usenet.elf.com!rpi!rebecca!uacsc2.albany.edu!SYSAM From: SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu (Aaron Morris) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: "Mothballs" as a fumigant? Date: Mon, 08 Aug 94 11:12:33 EDT Organization: University at Albany, Albany NY 12222 Lines: 30 Message-ID: <1700C9DA1S86.SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: uacsc2.albany.edu >In article , >rshough@tasc.com (Rick Hough) wrote: > >> ... >> Ah - it suddenly becomes clear! There are two kinds of "moth balls"!! >> There is the kind that my mom uses to keep the moths out of her >> sweaters (I forget the chemical name), and then there is >> Paradichlorobenzene (PDB) that beekeepers use to deal with Wax moth. > >The "other" mothballs (the ones you should NOT use) are naphthalene. >It's a hydrocarbon (polycyclic hydrocarbon, if you're into details) >that would be quite soluble in wax and would thus diffuse readily into >the comb. >-- >John Taylor (W3ZID) | "The opinions expressed are those of the >roh033.mah48d@rohmhaas.com | writer and not of Rohm and Haas Company. " Thanks to Rick and especially John for clarifying this. Quite a difference there, no? That's one thing that bothers me about the Information Superhighway: the ability to disperse misinformation worldwide. Perhaps there is more to be learned from Adrian's sig ("No help at All!?") than meets the eye! (Not attributing misinformation to Adrian, just acknowledging his sig). Again, thanks to those who set this record straight! Keep up the good work! Perhaps there should be a very explicit section in the FAQ along the lines "Can I use my mother's moth balls to control wax moths?"? Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! From SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu Fri Aug 12 10:57:37 EDT 1994 Article: 685 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news.duke.edu!MathWorks.Com!news2.near.net!usenet.elf.com!rpi!rebecca!uacsc2.albany.edu!SYSAM From: SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu (Aaron Morris) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: The hive ain't empty... Date: Mon, 08 Aug 94 11:14:44 EDT Organization: University at Albany, Albany NY 12222 Lines: 42 Message-ID: <1700C9E28S86.SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: uacsc2.albany.edu In article sandrock@aries.scs.uiuc.edu (Mark Sandrock) writes: > ... one of the middle frames ... had some honey cells along the >top, which I remembered from before, but in the center there appeared >to be brood cells on which the covering was broken. I don't know if >this is a normal appearance for hatched out cells, so this concerned >me somewhat. This COULD be a bad sign. Normal appearance for hatched out cells is a bee emerging/chewing its way through the cell cap. If there are no emerging bees evident there may me reasons for concern. If there are dead bees behind the broken caps there is definite cause for concern, as this is a symptom of American Foulbrood. The good news is that you're poking around in the hive! Check again, but go throught the entire hive. The capping pattern as you described may be normal, but it's hard to say without knowing what things looked like surrounding that frame. It may be the case that the middle frame you picked was an area of the brood chamber that had just hatched all of the bees and had not yet been reused by the queen. Hopefully, this is the case. Or, it may be indicative of a brood disease. The things to look for are whether the cells are empty and clean, ready for the next generation, and how the pattern you observed compares to the pattern of the surrounding frames. Also, use your other senses: sound and smell. These are harder senses to develope and exploit when working your bees, but they are very valuable to the beekeeper. Listen to the buzzing of the bees. Is it a busy, hive at work sort of sound (that's the impression I get from your description) or is it a stressed tone? It's hard to describe the difference, and perhaps the destinction only comes with experience. Smell is also important. Does the hive smell normal? Literature describes the smell of foulbrood as sickly sweet, but it's hard to put those words into an olfactory experience other than to experience it. And if you are able to experience it, learn it(!), because it's not an experience you'll care to oft' repeat. Otherwise, it sounds like you're getting into the experience of beekeeping. Good luck with your subsequent inspections! Aaron Morris - I think, therefore I bee! From hthomas@solid.phys.ethz.ch Fri Aug 12 10:57:38 EDT 1994 Article: 686 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!jussieu.fr!univ-lyon1.fr!swidir.switch.ch!scsing.switch.ch!elna.ethz.ch!otto-4.ethz.ch!user From: hthomas@solid.phys.ethz.ch (Hans-Ulrich THOMAS) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Varroa resistant honeybees Date: 11 Aug 1994 06:34:14 GMT Organization: Solid State Physics, ETHZ, Switzerland Lines: 14 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: otto-4.ethz.ch Some days ago somebody enquired about such bees. The journal "Bee World" carried in its issue 2 1994 an interesting article written by Mr. Ralph Buechler about this aspect. The answer is: Yes this behaviour is possible. Honeybee races vary widly in there natural resistance to varroatosis. The article gives a good overview and shows the efforts by some researchers in finding such races through selection or breeding. In case somebody needs this article I can mail a copy. Please send e-mail to - hthomas@solid.phys.ethz,ch Hans From hthomas@solid.phys.ethz.ch Fri Aug 12 10:57:38 EDT 1994 Article: 687 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!jussieu.fr!univ-lyon1.fr!swidir.switch.ch!scsing.switch.ch!elna.ethz.ch!otto-4.ethz.ch!user From: hthomas@solid.phys.ethz.ch (Hans-Ulrich THOMAS) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: BeeNet Date: 11 Aug 1994 12:55:33 GMT Organization: Solid State Physics, ETHZ, Switzerland Lines: 11 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: otto-4.ethz.ch In an older issue of "Bee World" I read about an other beekeeping BBS. It's called "BeeNet". Does anybody know how to access it through the Internet or any other means? In case you want to e-mail I can be reached via: - hthomas@solid.phys.ethz.ch Thanks for your help. Hans From SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu Fri Aug 12 10:57:39 EDT 1994 Article: 688 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news.duke.edu!MathWorks.Com!news2.near.net!usenet.elf.com!rpi!rebecca!uacsc2.albany.edu!SYSAM From: SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu (Aaron Morris) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: What to do with empty Date: Thu, 11 Aug 94 09:59:28 EDT Organization: University at Albany, Albany NY 12222 Lines: 12 Message-ID: <1700F8C83S86.SYSAM@uacsc2.albany.edu> References: <33A15839@beenet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: uacsc2.albany.edu In article <33A15839@beenet.com> ANDY.NACHBAUR@beenet.com (andy nachbaur) writes: >>SYSAM@UACSC2.ALBANY.EDU queried >> ... a US president in the '70s who was a >>real believer in the positive benefits of bee pollen... > >Andy responded: > It was RR! Someone gave him some pollen bars...or something. Well if that's the case I would never make a claim about bee pollen having a positive effect on one's memory! From jwg2y@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU Fri Aug 12 10:57:40 EDT 1994 Article: 689 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!murdoch!poe.acc.Virginia.EDU!jwg2y From: jwg2y@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Warner Granade) Subject: best time to harvest Message-ID: Sender: usenet@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU Organization: University of Virginia Date: Thu, 11 Aug 1994 16:12:43 GMT Lines: 21 I remember reading that the best time to harvest honey was in the middle of the day and that bees tended to get madder during a low-pressure time like before a thunder storm. Well, on Sunday, I went out (admittedly late in the day at 5pm) to get into my hive, and were they mad. I took out 4 frames and left after getting my rite of passage sting--my first in the three years I've had this hive. Last year, they hardly bothered me. The frames were totally covered with bees in this super with some uncapped frames. OK, I decided to try again yesterday in the middle of the day, temp 80degrees in the shade and hazy. They were even more angry like I had dissed the queen or something and hundreds of them flew at my veil. OK, maybe 50 total flew at my veil, but it seemed liked hundreds. I was smoking them like crazy and even smoking myself. I thought sure everyone would be out to lunch, but apparently not. So, is there a better time/condition than others to open a hive and harvest the honey? Should I take a sprayer of cool water or something? -- Warner Granade *****jwg2y@virginia.edu 804-924-7409 From fgt@cadre.com Fri Aug 12 10:57:42 EDT 1994 Article: 690 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!xanth.cs.odu.edu!news.larc.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!panther.Gsu.EDU!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!jussieu.fr!univ-lyon1.fr!swidir.switch.ch!newsfeed.ACO.net!Austria.EU.net!EU.net!uunet!cadre!usenet From: fgt@cadre.com (Fred G. Thurber) Subject: Re: best time to harvest Message-ID: Sender: usenet@cadre.com (News Account) Nntp-Posting-Host: cadre.cadre.com Reply-To: fgt@cadre.com Organization: CADRE TECHNOLOGIES INC. References: Date: Thu, 11 Aug 1994 18:26:01 GMT Lines: 5 Angry bees have also become a problem for me. Could it be that there is little nectar right now in my area because of dry conditions? Would feeding them a big dose of undiluted honey calm them down? From adamf@Hopper.itc.Virginia.EDU Fri Aug 12 10:57:43 EDT 1994 Article: 691 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!darkstar.UCSC.EDU!news.hal.COM!olivea!uunet!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!murdoch!Hopper.itc.Virginia.EDU!adamf From: adamf@Hopper.itc.Virginia.EDU (Adam Finkelstein) Subject: Re: best time to harvest Message-ID: Sender: usenet@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU Organization: Public Access Internet at UVa. References: Date: Fri, 12 Aug 1994 01:25:09 GMT Lines: 10 In article , Fred G. Thurber wrote: > Angry bees have also become a problem for me. Often when harvesting honey the bees may be aggressive. Adam -- ============================================================================ Adam Finkelstein adamf@hopper.itc.virginia.edu adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu =============================================== |Bees To Please| ======= From lapointe@netcom.com Fri Aug 12 10:57:44 EDT 1994 Article: 692 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news.duke.edu!MathWorks.Com!yeshua.marcam.com!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!csusac!csus.edu!netcom.com!lapointe From: lapointe@netcom.com (Douglas LaPointe) Subject: What is bee pollen? Message-ID: Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest) X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1] Date: Fri, 12 Aug 1994 04:18:28 GMT Lines: 10 First I will apologize for asking such a newbee question, but I could not find my answer in the FAQ. I saw bee pollen for sale in a health food store. Is this pollen that has been harvested by honey bees? It was touted as being extremely nutritious, "you can live off of this stuff". Is this true? TIA Douglas From roadent@halls1.cc.monash.edu.au Wed Aug 17 00:30:41 EDT 1994 Article: 693 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!agate!msuinfo!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!roberts-1f3-06.cc.monash.edu.au!roadent From: roadent@halls1.cc.monash.edu.au (Adrian Graham DENT - Rodent) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: best time to harvest Date: Fri, 12 Aug 1994 07:21:04 GMT Organization: Halls of Residence, Monash University Lines: 28 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: roberts-1f3-06.cc.monash.edu.au In article fgt@cadre.com (Fred G. Thurber) writes: >From: fgt@cadre.com (Fred G. Thurber) >Subject: Re: best time to harvest >Date: Thu, 11 Aug 1994 18:26:01 GMT > Angry bees have also become a problem for me. Could it be that >there is little nectar right now in my area because of dry conditions? >Would feeding them a big dose of undiluted honey calm them down? The best thing to do is to get a reasonably gentle strain of bees, and to not rush into opening the hive...wiat a minute or so after the first puff of smoke so they have a chance to start gorging thenselves. Something else you might like to check is the type of smoker fuel you are using...I have noticed marked differences between eucalyptus leaves, pine needles and heshian sacking... Another thing I have started doing recently is to take a shaker of thin sugar syrup and shake this over the bees as soon as I open the hive, and right before I close it...I don't use honey, purely to avoid any risk of spreading disease. I don't think I have any disease (apart from some noseema) in any of my hives, but I don't want to suddenly find out that the hive I got my feeding honey from had AFB...as the way I would probably find this would be because all my hives would die... mostly, the bees are easier to handle if they are the right temperature, queenrite, and well fed. Adrian (I hope I'm helpful this time...) From laakkone@cc.Helsinki.FI Wed Aug 17 00:30:42 EDT 1994 Article: 694 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!rutgers!biosci!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!news.funet.fi!news.csc.fi!news.helsinki.fi!not-for-mail From: laakkone@cc.Helsinki.FI (Tero Laakkonen) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: maximizing vicia villosa seed crop with bees? Date: 13 Aug 1994 14:02:55 +0300 Organization: University of Helsinki Lines: 10 Message-ID: <32i98v$l25@kruuna.Helsinki.FI> NNTP-Posting-Host: kruuna.helsinki.fi Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit hi, what kind of bee (and at what density) do i need for maximum seed crop of vicia villosa? what is a good (and up-to-date) reference? thanks! -- "i abhor you pretentious insight. i respect conscious guessing because it consists of two good qualities: courage and modesty." -imre lakatos From roadent@halls1.cc.monash.edu.au Wed Aug 17 00:30:42 EDT 1994 Article: 695 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!munnari.oz.au!yarrina.connect.com.au!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!roberts-1f3-06.cc.monash.edu.au!roadent From: roadent@halls1.cc.monash.edu.au (Adrian Graham DENT - Rodent) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Gosh, it's quiet in here.... Date: Sun, 14 Aug 1994 11:34:25 GMT Organization: Halls of Residence, Monash University Lines: 49 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: roberts-1f3-06.cc.monash.edu.au Keywords: echo!!! Helo??? ooo?? ooo?? ooo?? I thought it might echo a little.....there does seem to have been a little fall of in the number of postings here lately...I suppose all you people on the upside of the planet are busy out harvesting tanker loads of honey... I suppose it is really going to start getting quiet as everyone slows the pace down for their winter operations....I think we need more Aussies online so that we can have inane chat about obvious things all year 'round. I guess, just as I am getting ready for my fourth harvest (well my fourth personal harvest...not counting the five or six I did with the guy who's hive management techniques seemes to be responsible for over 300 hives including my fathers 30, being wiped out by AFB) everybody else will be busy talking about storage of combs and various other winter operations.... I suppose the small hiatus in the activity that comes in your Autumn and my spring will give time for me to get to work on the australian sections of the FAQ instead of being totally useless trying to help everybody...:-> While there is a bit less in the way of hive activity going on, why don't we all swap best/worst experiences about beekeeping... My worst experience was trying to work our first (at least we think it was first) AFB infected hive. Actually they belonged to the guy I mentioned above, but all our hives where in with his....he had all the equipment, we just had hives.. Anyway, this hive gave me more stings in one day than I have had before or since....in fact probably even if I was to add up all the stings I'd ever had, this would have been more.... This hive was the worst pack of niggly little bitches I have ever seen ( although those of you that have seen Afric. bees have probably seen worse) and as soon as we started smoking the hive, all four of us were attacked.... once we had the hive opened, one person stayed there as each of the rest of us went to was our srings to get rid of the venom smell....our bucket of water was about ten metres away from this particular hive, and as soon as we took our gloves of to get at the sting, another two or three would seemingly materialise next to it...then after washing the arm or whatever and moving to put the glove back on, we would get stung again. We closed that hive up, but for the next few hours, if we walked withing three or four meters of it, we got stung. The reason I believe this hive to be responsible for promoting the spread of AFB through the apiary is because even the guys that had been doing bees for years were to wary of this hive to do all the work it needed for swarm and disease control, in fact it was rarely opened, and it wasn't even robbed for a year or two. I was about 14 at the time, and blissfully unaware that such things as bee diseases existed....but the older guys should have known better... Well...thats all for now....I just thought I'd share that...oh...my best experience.....every year when the first bit of honey flows out of the bottom of the extractor....(what else?? :-> ) Adrian. From adamf@Hopper.itc.Virginia.EDU Wed Aug 17 00:30:43 EDT 1994 Article: 696 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!murdoch!Hopper.itc.Virginia.EDU!adamf From: adamf@Hopper.itc.Virginia.EDU (Adam Finkelstein) Subject: Bes/Wicwas Press Catalog Message-ID: Sender: usenet@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU Organization: Public Access Internet at UVa. Date: Mon, 15 Aug 1994 00:03:46 GMT Lines: 26 Forwarded from Bee-l: From: "" Subject: New catalog Expect delivery of our new catalog this week, with book, slide and video list of current bee/beekeeping/social insect titles. Will send a free copy to any Bee-L people who request it. Also, if you have a club or class, I will ship them in bulk. Indicate the number you require. Again, no charge. Mail address is: BES/Wicwas Press Larry Connor, Ph.D., Owner P. O. Box 817 Cheshire CT 06410 USA I'd assume he'd send anyone on USENET a free copy too, at least so he figures out we're here! Adam -- ============================================================================ Adam Finkelstein adamf@hopper.itc.virginia.edu adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu =============================================== |Bees To Please| ======= From griffin@dorsai.org Wed Aug 17 00:30:44 EDT 1994 Article: 697 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!gatech!udel!news.sprintlink.net!news.dorsai.org!griffin From: griffin@dorsai.org (Leslie_Bildner) Subject: Image of Beehive in art Message-ID: Organization: The Dorsai Embassy, New York, NY X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Date: Mon, 15 Aug 1994 07:41:25 GMT Lines: 14 Hi there: I stumbled across this newsgroup and couldn't resist posting a question that I have had for a while. I have long wondered about the dome shaped 'bee-hive' that is traditionally shown in emblems, cartoons, etc. It certainly doesn't look like any natural bee-hive that I've ever seen. Is this a stylized representation of some sort of artificial hive? Some versions that I've seen appear to be woven, like a wicker basket. Thanks, <<< Les <<< From roe@crosfield.co.uk Wed Aug 17 00:30:44 EDT 1994 Article: 698 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!pipex!crosfield.co.uk!roe From: roe@crosfield.co.uk (Malcolm Roe) Subject: Re: Image of Beehive in art Message-ID: <1994Aug15.123959.3168@crosfield.co.uk> Organization: Crosfield, Hemel Hempstead, UK References: Date: Mon, 15 Aug 1994 12:39:59 GMT Lines: 37 In article griffin@dorsai.org (Leslie_Bildner) writes: >I have long wondered about the dome shaped 'bee-hive' that is >traditionally shown in emblems, cartoons, etc. It certainly doesn't look >like any natural bee-hive that I've ever seen. Is this a stylized >representation of some sort of artificial hive? Some versions that I've >seen appear to be woven, like a wicker basket. You're almost right, Les. They were made of straw and called skeps. To protect them from the rain they were often placed under some sort of cover. Sometimes recesses in walls called bee boles were used. I don't know exactly how widespread the use of skeps was. They were certainly used by the British and in other parts of the world where British influence prevailed. They slowly went out of use after the invention of removable frame hives in the middle of the 19th century. What the beekeeper did was to catch swarms in the spring and encourage them to take up residence in the skeps. At the end of the summer a few were put to one side (to provide the swarms for next year) and the rest of the hives were killed. Often this was done by placing them over a fire onto which sulpher had been placed. Once the bees were dead the honey comb was cut out and the skeps put to one side until the next spring. I believe methods rather like this are still used in some less developed parts of the world such as Africa (using log hives) but throughout most of the world removable fame hives have become almost universal. They have many advantages although I don't have time to discuss that here. Indeed, in some countries it is illegal to keep bees in anything but a removable frame hive. This is because it is otherwise impossible to inspect for disease. -- Malcolm Roe Phone : +44 442 230000 ext 5104 Crosfield Electronics Ltd Fax : +44 442 232301 Hemel Hempstead, Herts. HP2 7RH, UK E-mail : roe@crosfield.co.uk ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From rspear@sookit.jpl.nasa.gov Wed Aug 17 00:30:45 EDT 1994 Article: 699 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!netline-fddi.jpl.nasa.gov!sookit!rspear From: rspear@sookit (Richard Spear) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: weak hive? Date: 15 Aug 1994 15:13:19 GMT Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory - Pasadena CA Lines: 13 Message-ID: <32o0mf$s1o@netline-fddi.jpl.nasa.gov> Reply-To: rspear@sookit.jpl.nasa.gov NNTP-Posting-Host: sookit.jpl.nasa.gov Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL0] hi - my two new hives have survived the summer (still raging here in california), but one of them seems quite weak. the two were started from five frame nucs ... i've added two honey supers to one of them and the other has yet to fill the brood chamber. as october/november approaches, i'm a bit concerned about this weaker hive ... can i take some honey frames (and bees) from the strong hive and add them to the weak one? anyone have any other ideas on how to strengthen the weak hive? regards, richard rspear@sookit.jpl.nasa.gov From roe@crosfield.co.uk Wed Aug 17 00:30:46 EDT 1994 Article: 700 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news.duke.edu!MathWorks.Com!yeshua.marcam.com!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!crosfield.co.uk!roe From: roe@crosfield.co.uk (Malcolm Roe) Subject: Re: weak hive? Message-ID: <1994Aug15.171748.5112@crosfield.co.uk> Organization: Crosfield, Hemel Hempstead, UK References: <32o0mf$s1o@netline-fddi.jpl.nasa.gov> Date: Mon, 15 Aug 1994 17:17:48 GMT Lines: 24 In article <32o0mf$s1o@netline-fddi.jpl.nasa.gov> rspear@sookit.jpl.nasa.gov writes: >i've added two honey supers to one of them and the other >has yet to fill the brood chamber. as october/november approaches, i'm a bit >concerned about this weaker hive You can boost the weaker hive but before you do that you should ask yourself, "Why are the two colonies so different?" It could be disease. Inspect your weak hive carefully for brood diseases and mites. If you find anything then treat as appropriate. Another possibility is that you have a poor queen. I'll return to that. Assuming the hive is healthy then transfer a frame or two of brood, depending on how much is available, from the stronger to the weaker hive. Its best to shake most of the adult bees off. Make sure you don't transfer the queen! It's young bees you want at this time of year to build up for the winter. If the hive still doesn't thrive then requeening is probably indicated. -- Malcolm Roe Phone : +44 442 230000 ext 5104 Crosfield Electronics Ltd Fax : +44 442 232301 Hemel Hempstead, Herts. HP2 7RH, UK E-mail : roe@crosfield.co.uk ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From altabios@bham.ac.uk Wed Aug 17 00:30:46 EDT 1994 Article: 701 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!swrinde!pipex!warwick!bham!usenet From: altabios@bham.ac.uk (John E. Fox) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: honey yields Date: 16 Aug 1994 12:22:28 GMT Organization: The University of Birmingham, UK Lines: 9 Message-ID: <32qb24$8dg@sun4.bham.ac.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: bcs118.bham.ac.uk X-Newsreader: WinVN version 0.80 Just out of interest, what sort of honey yield does everyone else get, say the average per hive? I have four working hives this year, the fifth one was a filled in June with a new swarm. I got a total of 180lb of honey off the four hives and am quite pleased with myself (and the bees who did all the work). How many tons/hive do you get in the States? Everything there being bigger and better than in the old UK! From roadent@halls1.cc.monash.edu.au Wed Aug 17 00:30:47 EDT 1994 Article: 702 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news.duke.edu!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!agate!msuinfo!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!howitt-b04-01.cc.monash.edu.au!roadent From: roadent@halls1.cc.monash.edu.au (Adrian Graham DENT - Rodent) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: honey yields Date: Tue, 16 Aug 1994 13:10:49 GMT Organization: Halls of Residence, Monash University Lines: 11 Message-ID: References: <32qb24$8dg@sun4.bham.ac.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: howitt-b04-01.cc.monash.edu.au In article <32qb24$8dg@sun4.bham.ac.uk> altabios@bham.ac.uk (John E. Fox) writes: >Just out of interest, what sort of honey yield does everyone else get, >say the average per hive? WEll, I can't speak for the u.s.a....but here in a.u.s., we can get up to 100kg per hive over two extractions. In a good year (or even just an ordinary year in the north) it can be much more than this. Average for me is about 15 - 10 kg per hive, but then I have only been extracting once each year.... Adrian. (yet another failed attempt at being helpful....) From mikee@eskimo.com Wed Aug 17 22:50:36 EDT 1994 Article: 703 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news.duke.edu!MathWorks.Com!mvb.saic.com!eskimo!mikee From: mikee@eskimo.com (Mike Koehn) Subject: Fennel Message-ID: Organization: Eskimo North (206) For-Ever Date: Wed, 17 Aug 1994 04:22:15 GMT Lines: 5 My bees are into the fennel and mint bloom. Will this ruin the taste of the honey? It's mostly blackberry so far. Thanks in advance, Mike Koehn From moroney@world.std.com Wed Aug 17 22:50:37 EDT 1994 Article: 704 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!emory!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!MathWorks.Com!blanket.mitre.org!world!moroney From: moroney@world.std.com (Michael Moroney) Subject: Re: weak hive? Message-ID: <6eOKkaE96ZrT065yn@world.std.com> Sender: moroney@world.std.com (Michael Moroney) Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA References: <32o0mf$s1o@netline-fddi.jpl.nasa.gov> Date: Wed, 17 Aug 1994 04:54:46 GMT Lines: 30 In article <32o0mf$s1o@netline-fddi.jpl.nasa.gov>, Richard Spear wrote: > > hi - my two new hives have survived the summer (still raging here in > california), but one of them seems quite weak. the two were started from > five frame nucs ... i've added two honey supers to one of them and the other > has yet to fill the brood chamber. as october/november approaches, i'm a bit You may wish to consider that you may be better off with one strongish hive going into winter rather than two weaker ones. If the hive comes through winter strong they'll have a good jump on the spring and you will be rewarded. Otherwise you may have a weak hive and a very weak (or dead) hive and get less total honey. To do this combine the hives. Remove whichever queen is less desireable (prob. the one from the weaker hive), or don't bother if you want the bees to sort things out. Remove the outer and inner cover from one hive, place a sheet of newspaper over it (with a couple small holes in it) and place the other hive body on it. The bees will chew the paper and slowly get acquainted in the process. You can split the hive in the spring if they're doing well/trying to swarm, and get your two hives back. However you're from California so therefore don't have the winters we do here, so maybe they'll do OK anyway. Regardless be darn sure the weak hive is not diseased before you do anything that will contaminate the other. -Mike From crumley@jabba.cybernetics.net Wed Aug 17 22:50:38 EDT 1994 Article: 705 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!rutgers!ukma!jobone!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!panix!MathWorks.Com!news.duke.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!panther.Gsu.EDU!gatech!ncar!csn!jabba.cybernetics.net!not-for-mail From: crumley@jabba.cybernetics.net (Steve Crumley) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Tips on finding queen? Date: 17 Aug 1994 12:42:50 -0400 Organization: Creative Cybernetics -online services (704-549-5553 voice) Lines: 8 Message-ID: <32tema$bu5@jabba.cybernetics.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: jabba.cybernetics.net X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] This is my second year of beekeeping and I'm still having trouble locating the queen. I know what she looks like, and sometimes when I am working a hive (I have 4) I will see her, but I can't just go into a hive and find her whenever I want to. This fall I need to re-queen 2 hives (captured swarms) so I need some tips on how to find the elusive little lady. Thanks -Steve Crumley (Louisburg NC) From adamf@Hopper.itc.Virginia.EDU Wed Aug 17 22:50:39 EDT 1994 Article: 706 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!murdoch!Hopper.itc.Virginia.EDU!adamf From: adamf@Hopper.itc.Virginia.EDU (Adam Finkelstein) Subject: Tracheal Mite Samples Message-ID: Sender: usenet@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU Organization: Public Access Internet at UVa. Date: Wed, 17 Aug 1994 20:23:46 GMT Lines: 38 Date: Tue, 16 Aug 1994 11:04:23 -0400 From: Diana Sammataro Subject: Tracheal Mite Samples To all bee/or bee mite researchers out there: I am currently screening tracheal mites from different countries and regions of the US to see if DNA patterns are different. I would be grateful if some other cooperators would send me samples of mites, or infested bees, from colonies that died of mites and from those still alive but infested. Alcohol samples of mites in the tubes or infested bees is fine, if the samples were previously frozen or collected within the past year. Bees left in alcohol too long are difficult to find mites. However, mite samples within the tubes can be over a year. Use 70% EtOH and label all samples In addition to A. woodi, A. externis and A. dorsalis would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your help. If there are any questions, please write, call or email. Diana Sammataro Dept Entomology Ohio State University 1735 Neil Ave Columbus OH 43210 1220 Phone: 614 292 9089, Fax: 614 292 2180 Email: dsammata@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu -- ============================================================================ Adam Finkelstein adamf@hopper.itc.virginia.edu adamf@vtaix.cc.vt.edu =============================================== |Bees To Please| ======= From ez021641@dale.ucdavis.edu Sun Aug 21 21:06:04 EDT 1994 Article: 707 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news.duke.edu!MathWorks.Com!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!news.ucdavis.edu!dale.ucdavis.edu!ez021641 From: ez021641@dale.ucdavis.edu (Son Trinh) Subject: Yellow Jackets (sp?) Message-ID: Sender: usenet@ucdavis.edu (News Guru) Organization: University of California, Davis Date: Thu, 18 Aug 1994 04:51:35 GMT Lines: 15 I have a hive in my back yard, and everyday, i see there are two or three yellow jackets hoovering around the hive entrance. Sooner or later, one of them will land on a semi-dead bee near the entrance. Any body has any idea of what's going on? I tried to find out what the yellow jacket were doing, but to no avail. I also observe that the worker bee drags away the dead bee beyond my sight. For curiosity sake, is there any published paper on the distance that the worker actually disposed of the dead bee?? I would appreciate if you can reply directly to my email acct (ez021641@bullwinkle. ucdavis.edu). Thank you for ur help An inquiring mind, -ST From killoran@ll.mit.edu Sun Aug 21 21:06:05 EDT 1994 Article: 708 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news.duke.edu!MathWorks.Com!uhog.mit.edu!xn.ll.mit.edu!ll.mit.edu!killoran From: killoran@ll.mit.edu (Mike Killoran) Subject: Bee disease: preventative vs treatment Message-ID: <9408181210.PN00869@LL.MIT.EDU> Sender: news@ll.mit.edu Organization: MIT Lincoln Lab -- Lexington, MA Date: Thu, 18 Aug 94 12:10:17 -0400 Lines: 44 Another newbie question from someone who just started this spring! I've read a bit about the various bee diseases and what to do about them, but I'm always left wondering how old the information is (especially in the case of mites) and whether the treatment is preventative or only used when the problem becomes obvious. Here's what I believe - please expand on this info or correct: There are four problems to worry about: 1 Foulbrood (both American and European) 2 Nosema 3 Varroa mites 4 Tracheal mites >From reading I think the following is to be done: 1 Feed terramycin in spring and fall to control foulbrood. It seems like this is always present to some degree, but is manageable. 2 Fumidil 'B' for control of Nosema. Again, spring and fall feedings for prevention. 3 Apistan strips when you KNOW you have Varroa mites. Not preventative, but reactive. 4 Extender pattys (vegetable shortening) or Menthol when you KNOW you have Tracheal mites. Not preventative either. So... I haven't done anything yet to my bees (the package they came in had an Apistan strip which I didn't move into the hive). This fall I plan to feed both Terramycin and Fumidil 'B'. As the hive seems very healthy, I will not treat for any mites. Am I doing the right thing? Any other diseases to worry about? Should I not treat for anything? Etc, etc... I've heard of hives with AFB being burned and certainly don't want my hive to have to end this way! Your personal ideas and schedule for disease control would be helpful. Thanks, Mike Killoran -- Mike Killoran Zen says: killoran@ll.mit.edu Cease to do evil, (617) 981-2667 Try to do good. From altabios@bham.ac.uk Sun Aug 21 21:06:07 EDT 1994 Article: 709 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news.duke.edu!convex!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!warwick!bham!usenet From: altabios@bham.ac.uk (John E. Fox) Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Subject: Re: Tips on finding queen? Date: 19 Aug 1994 12:18:03 GMT Organization: The University of Birmingham, UK Lines: 21 Message-ID: <3327tr$dbr@sun4.bham.ac.uk> References: <32tema$bu5@jabba.cybernetics.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: bcs118.bham.ac.uk X-Newsreader: WinVN version 0.80 In article <32tema$bu5@jabba.cybernetics.net>, crumley@jabba.cybernetics.net (Steve Crumley) says: > >This is my second year of beekeeping and I'm still having trouble >locating the queen. I know what she looks like, and sometimes when >I am working a hive (I have 4) I will see her, but I can't just >go into a hive and find her whenever I want to. This fall I need >to re-queen 2 hives (captured swarms) so I need some tips on how >to find the elusive little lady. >Thanks > -Steve Crumley (Louisburg NC) I find it hard to see the queen as well, although I rarely specifically look for her The queen tends to shun the light so if you keep half of the brood chamber covered she will tend to be in that half. You can also mark the queen with paint, in the UK there is a colour coding system so you can tell her age. The paint helps to find the queen as well. I once spent an hour trying to find a marked queen without success, put all the frames back in place and while wondering what to do, saw the queen going over the top of the frames. The queen is rarely on the outer frames so you can take these out of the hive, it makes for fewer frames to look through From adamf@Hopper.itc.Virginia.EDU Sun Aug 21 21:06:09 EDT 1994 Article: 710 of sci.agriculture.beekeeping Newsgroups: sci.agriculture.beekeeping Path: bigblue.oit.unc.edu!concert!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!murdoch!Hopper.itc.Virginia.EDU!adamf From: adamf@Hopper.itc.Virginia.EDU (Adam Finkelstein) Subject: Apis Magazine 8/94 Message-ID: Keywords: Apis, beekeeping, bee, sanford, magazine Sender: usenet@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU Organization: Public Access Internet at UVa. Date: Sat, 20 Aug 1994 03:58:01 GMT Lines: 247 Florida Extension Beekeeping Newsletter Apis--Apicultural Information and Issues (ISSN 0889-3764) Volume 12, Number 8, August 1994 PERMITTING HONEY PROCESSING Dr. Keith Delaplane at the University of Georgia recently discussed food regulations in his column "Strictly for the Hobbyist," American Bee Journal, July, 1994. His concern comes from hard experience. It seems that a food inspector visited a store that was buying Dr. Delaplane's honey. The merchant ceased doing business because Dr. Delaplane was not licensed by the state. At first disgruntled by yet another "imposition of government on agriculture and grass-roots living," Dr. Delaplane has changed his opinion. He now urges beekeepers to be proactive on this issue. Even the smallest beekeepers who sell honey to the public must comply with facility licensing laws in Georgia. According to Dr. Delaplane, "The licensing consists of a permit issued at no cost following a satisfactory inspection. Facilities are inspected quarterly thereafter." The above policy used to be about the same in Florida. However, as of January 1993, the rules have changed. According to Florida Statute 500.12, Section 1(a), "A food permit from the department is required of any person in the business of manufacturing, processing, packing, holding, preparing or selling food at retail . . . " Most of this statement was already in the old law, but Section 1(b) says "Applications for a food permit from the department shall be accompanied by a fee to be determined by department rule, not to exceed $350. Food permits shall be renewed annually on or before January 1." Thus, the time is over when food processors can obtain free permits. For small producers (less than $10,000 in sales), this translates to a fee of $60.00 per year, according to Dr. John Rychener of the Bureau of Food and Meat Inspection, Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services. Although the strict letter of the law requires all beekeepers selling honey to the public to obtain permits, there is some latitude. Florida employs only eighty-four food inspectors to oversee the food safety in over 25,000 processing plants and retail stores. The occasional small honey producer can be missed, according to Dr. Rychener. However, if and when the food inspection service becomes aware of any person/business without a permit, it must act. There is no penalty the first time one is discovered. Nevertheless, once contacted by a food inspector, one must obtain a license which is renewable annually with imposition of a late fee, if applicable. Section 5E-6.008 of the same law provides sanitary regulations governing manufacture, processing, packing, or other handling of honey. They are summarized in Hints for the Hive 106, soon to be distributed as ENY 106 in the IFAS CD-ROM FAIRS program: (1) HONEY HOUSE. A honey house is any stationary or portable building, including equipment, used for the purpose of extracting, processing, packing or other handling of honey. (2) FLOORS. Floors...shall be impervious and easily cleaned...smooth, in good repair, and kept clean...and if having a drain, be drained into a septic tank, or cesspool, or be connected to local sewage disposal facilities. (3) WALLS AND CEILINGS. Shall have smooth washable surfaces, be clean and in good repair. (4) LIGHTING AND VENTILATION. Shall be adequately ventilated...permit efficient operations and cleaning of equipment. (5) DOORS AND WINDOWS. Shall be screened, kept in good repair, and equipped with bee escapes. (6) WATER SUPPLY. Shall be properly located, constructed and operated in accordance with local sanitary codes...easily accessible and sanitary. (7) CONSTRUCTION, CARE, USE AND REPAIR OF HONEY HOUSE, CONTAINERS AND EQUIPMENT. During operation, the honey house shall be used exclusively for extraction, processing, packing or other handling of honey and for the storage of equipment related to the business of the honey house. Containers shall be free of internal rust, cleaned before reuse...all open equipment should be covered when not in use. (8) WATER DISPOSAL. There shall be an efficient waste disposal system. Toilet facilities, including wash basins, shall be conveniently available to honey house personnel. Toilet rooms shall not open directly into any room of the honey house. Toilets without plumbing shall be at least 75 feet from the plant...screened and have a self-closing door. (9) STORAGE OF EQUIPMENT. Equipment shall be stored free from rust and contamination. (10) HEATING EQUIPMENT. No boiler, oil stove or other heating equipment that gives off dust or odor may be used within the honey house, unless it has proper ventilation...and shall comply with fire regulations. (11) WORKER SANITATION. Workers shall wear clean and washable clothing... keep hands clean, and be provided with clean and sanitary towels. (12) CARE AND HANDLING OF COMBS OF HONEY. Combs should be loaded and handled so as to protect them from contamination. (13) USE OF HONEY PUMPS. Before being pumped, honey shall be strained through a screen of at least eight meshes to the inch or pumped from a baffled sump tank which provides a constant supply of honey for the pump. (14) CONTAINERS AND STORAGE. Honey shall not be packed in containers which have previously contained pesticide, creosote, gasoline, kerosine, fuel oil, paint, glue or other toxic substances. Storage tanks are to be protected from contamination and packed honey stored in a clean and sanitary manner. (15) PESTICIDE PROHIBITED. The application of spray type pesticides in the honey house is prohibited during extracting, processing and packing honey. Questions pertaining to Florida honey house sanitation should be directed to Dr. John Rychener or Mr. Kevin Lufkin, Bureau of Food and Meat Inspection, Food Safety Division, Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services, 3125 Conner Blvd., Tallahassee, FL 32399-1650, Ph. 904/488-3951 or 1-800/HELPFLA, "select or say 6" for Food Safety. HONEY ADULTERATION ON THE RISE There is evidence that honey adulteration is approaching epidemic proportions in Florida and elsewhere. As in the past, the prime culprit is high fructose corn syrup (HFCS). The addition of HFCS to honey, even in large amounts, is difficult to detect without laboratory testing. And occasionally, vendors simply sell corn syrup as honey. Any of the above practices renders honey either adulterated and/or misbranded under the Florida Food Law. Many people are concerned about adulteration of honey, but it is extremely difficult to police. In a way, honey is its own enemy in this effort. The sweet is so healthful that, even when adulterated, it is not a health hazard. State and federal inspectors are stretched to their limits examining high risk foods. According to Mr. Lufkin of the Food Safety Division, mentioned in the previous article, there are not enough personnel resources left to enforce deceptive labelling practices. Inspectors are focusing instead on meat, milk and other products that are less forgiving than honey in their processing. "Detection of honey adulteration is the easy part," Mr. Lufkin says, "Tracking the violators is the constant challenge. All too frequently, the trail leads to phantom producers and distributors, hiding behind false labels and cash transactions." Only when enough people contact food inspectors, legislators and other policy makers with solid information can some effective action be taken. In the recent past, adulteration was reduced after an especially blatant case came to trial followed by conviction. However, the practice is raising its ugly head again. Honey adulteration adversely affects the apicultural industry by displacing its product in the marketplace. It also lowers the price as imports have been accused of doing. However, at least most imports are real honey and paying assessment for promotion to the National Honey Board. Adulterers reap double benefits: high prices for their product, cheaper to market than even the least expensive imported honey, coupled with no promotional assessment. As in the past, the beekeeping industry is the first line of defense against adulteration. A "self-policing" program, sponsored by the American Beekeeping Federation continues to be in effect. Suspicious honey is tested and, if found adulterated, the Federation notifies the proper officials and sends a report to the person who sent the sample for their follow-up. In spite of the recent adulterating activity, the Federation is receiving very few samples. Feeding bees sugar syrup and/or HFCS and extracting "honey" containing these products is also adulteration. Thus, beekeepers cannot be too careful. Even small amounts of adulterants are detected by tests currently in use. It is impossible to tell adulterated honey by either taste, smell or color. The only real evidence comes from defined techniques certified by the National Association of Chemists. Experience has shown, however, that adulterated product has one or all of the following characteristics: 1. No flavor, just sweet. 2. Very light or very dark 3. Molasses flavor 4. Consistently low price In addition to the above characteristics, adulterated honey has often been associated with "rustic" labels and "Mason" type jars. If you see suspicious product, send a sample to the Secretary-Treasurer, American Beekeeping Federation, P.O. Box 1038, Jesup, GA 31545, ph 912/427-8447, along with the following information: Date ____________________ DESCRIPTION OF HONEY SAMPLE: (include the label or copy the information on printed label including size of package, brand, name and address of