From jcb13@cornell.eduMon Sep 4 13:24:50 1995 Date: Mon, 4 Sep 1995 09:17:55 -0400 From: "Jennifer C. Bokaer-Smith" To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: DEER CONTROL HELP NEEDED We fence in 3 acres of organic vegetables with a seven strand six ft tall high-tensile fence. This keeps out woodchucks as well as deer. However, deer *can* get over a 6 ft fence if they want to, and sometimes in the fall they do. (We've heard of them clearing 10 ft, no problem.) A few ways to get around this: -Errect a mulit-strand fence, as per Larry's specs. Then, errect ANOTHER strand 3 feet in front of the main fence, 3 feet high. While deer can jump high, jumping distances seems to scare them. -Put up a fence that is slanted. This requires lots of maintence and is expensive to install, but those we know who've done it have no complaints. One important bit of advice: fence in more area than you need right now. We fenced in one acre a few years ago, but this year we expanded a whole lot and needed to take down our 'permanent' fence. The new replacement fence is not yet all the way up, and deer are getting in, as are woodchucks. The moral of the story: if you're errecting a 10 year fence, fence in all the land you possibly see yourself using in the next 10 years. It's really expensive and a big pain in the butt to re-do a high-tensile fence! Good luck. PS--I think perhaps the wildlife pressure has been so bad this year because of the severe drought we're experiencing in the NE. Next year might be easier if it rains and there's more wild food available. Jennifer Bokaer-Smith Division of Nutritional Sciences 231N MVR Hall Cornell Univesity Ithaca, NY 14853 Phone: 607/255-7153 FAX: 607/255-0178 e-mail: jcb13@cornell.edu From london@calypso-2.oit.unc.eduMon Sep 4 13:26:41 1995 Date: Sat, 2 Sep 1995 23:53:07 -0400 (EDT) From: "Lawrence F. London, Jr." To: TroyBogdan@aol.com Cc: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: DEER CONTROL HELP NEEDED On Sat, 2 Sep 1995 TroyBogdan@aol.com wrote: > Next season I will invest in an electric fence. I have talked to a few fence > companies and it seems like each company recommends a different fence setup. > Does anybody have any proven fence setups or suggestions. We are probably > going to fence in about a two acre field. I am an organic grower also and will be fencing 2-3 acres of my six. An electric fence is all you will need to keep them completely out of your garden. You will need to use the right equipment and install it properly. Specs: 1) 8' galvanized, painted T-posts with plastic screw-on insulators. 2) The hottest charger you can get - New Zealand types are best but pricey, may be overkill anyway - American-made brands will probably be adequate (International is a good brand). 3) 1-3 8' copper-clad ground rods driven into ground under charger. Use heavy copper wire (10 gauge minimum) to connect charger to them Best not to install your charger near your electric service - lightning strikes are more likely to take your charger out in that situation (I've lost 2 that way). Connect hot lead to fence with 10 gauge copper wire using a brass clamp. 3) 14-gauge galvanized steel wire - minimum; don't use aluminum (no matter what advice you get to the contrary) and don't use lighter than 14 gauge. Use 12 1/2 gauge hi-tensile 200 lb.-test wire for the lines they are likeliest to run into, 14 gauge is OK for the rest. 4) Space the lines 16" to 28" apart from the ground up - the first 4 lines are critical, the remaining uppermost ones can be spaced further apart - you absolutely don't want them going between the wires. 5) Turn the fence charger off as infrequently as possible. 6) Initially, bait the fence with peanut butter and corn in aluminum foil boats hung from the middle wire (about 3' from ground) They quickly catch on and avoid the fence. Their feeding pattern gets disrupted and they move to other areas. They always know when the fence is on and will avoid it - they usually won't come closer than 30-40 '. This will absolutely keep them out of your garden. Nothing less will work and no more is neccessary. ------------------------------------------------------- Lawrence F. London, Jr. - london@sunSITE.unc.edu http://sunSITE.unc.edu/london/Information_By_Topic.html http://sunSITE.unc.edu/london/permaculture.html ------------------------------------------------------- From dbsschxx@ix.netcom.comTue Sep 5 23:13:52 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 14:16:34 -0700 From: DBS To: london@calypso-2.oit.unc.edu Subject: Re: DEER CONTROL HELP NEEDED You wrote: > >On Sat, 2 Sep 1995 TroyBogdan@aol.com wrote: > >> Next season I will invest in an electric fence. I have talked to a few fence >> companies and it seems like each company recommends a different fence setup. >> Does anybody have any proven fence setups or suggestions. We are probably >> going to fence in about a two acre field. > >I am an organic grower also and will be fencing 2-3 acres of my six. >An electric fence is all you will need to keep them completely out >of your garden. You will need to use the right equipment and install it >properly. > >Specs: > >1) 8' galvanized, painted T-posts with plastic screw-on insulators. >2) The hottest charger you can get - New Zealand types are best but > pricey, may be overkill anyway - American-made brands will probably be > adequate (International is a good brand). >3) 1-3 8' copper-clad ground rods driven into ground under charger. > Use heavy copper wire (10 gauge minimum) to connect charger to them > Best not to install your charger near your electric service - > lightning strikes are more likely to take your charger out in that > situation (I've lost 2 that way). Connect hot lead to fence with 10 > gauge copper wire using a brass clamp. >3) 14-gauge galvanized steel wire - minimum; don't use aluminum (no matter > what advice you get to the contrary) and don't use lighter than 14 gauge. > Use 12 1/2 gauge hi-tensile 200 lb.-test wire for the > lines they are likeliest to run into, 14 gauge is OK for the rest. >4) Space the lines 16" to 28" apart from the ground up - the first > 4 lines are critical, the remaining uppermost ones can be spaced > further apart - you absolutely don't want them going between the wires. >5) Turn the fence charger off as infrequently as possible. >6) Initially, bait the fence with peanut butter and corn in aluminum > foil boats hung from the middle wire (about 3' from ground) > They quickly catch on and avoid the fence. Their feeding pattern > gets disrupted and they move to other areas. They always know > when the fence is on and will avoid it - they usually won't come > closer than 30-40 '. > >This will absolutely keep them out of your garden. Nothing less >will work and no more is neccessary. > >------------------------------------------------------- >Lawrence F. London, Jr. - london@sunSITE.unc.edu >http://sunSITE.unc.edu/london/Information_By_Topic.html >http://sunSITE.unc.edu/london/permaculture.html >------------------------------------------------------- > RECENT ARTICLE SHOWED A NEW WAY LAY FENCE X X X X X X X X X X X U RUN THE TOP WIRE ONLY FROM THE POST AND HANG A FIBERGLASS POLE PREDRILLED POST THRU THE TOP LAYOUT IN 45 DEGREE THEN RUN ALL OTHER STRAND S THRU POLE ......THIS IS WAS USED BY APPLE GROWERS IN MINN . THE DEER WOULD HAVE CLEAR 6 FT HIGH AND 6 LONG RATHER THAN STRAIGHT 8 FT HIGH THAT CAN JUMP. THE MINN EXTENSION MAY HAVE MORE INFO ON DESIGN. From milesc@wsu.eduWed Sep 6 23:28:17 1995 Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 10:57:06 -0800 From: "Carol A. Miles" To: sanet-mg@amani.ces.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: DEER CONTROL HELP NEEDED In response to Troy Bogdan request for deer fence information. New Zealand fencing is generally very good for deer. But it tends to be a little expensive. However, you pay for durability. I have seen people attach strips of aluminum foil to the fence, and put a dab of peanut butter on the foil. One taste is generally all any one deer will attempt. It's pretty shocking. A nice arrangement I recently saw surrounding a market garden was a pair of 6 foot fences set 6 feet apart. Within the two fences were free range chickens and ducks - if you sell eggs this is an added advantage. The poultry did an excellent job keeping down the insects and the slugs (which here in Washington are almost as devasting as the deer!) Another fence you can try is a blackberry fence. A thick (6 foot spread and 4-5 feet high) blackberry hedge does a pretty good job of keeping out deer. You may have to do some weaving of vines to keep it all together, but it works moderately well. >Hello everyone, > >I run a small certified organic organic farm in Western Pennsylvania (Near >Pittsburgh) and we have been hurt pretty badly this year by deer damage. The >deer entirely wiped out our tomatoes this year (our main cash crop), did >significant damage to our pumpkins and winter squash and also wiped out our >sunflowers. They also kicked holes in our floating row covers so they could >get to the beets and swiss chard, while also letting in insects. > >I tried a few things to persuade them to go elsewhere, but it really didn't >do any good. Some of the things we tried were . . . bars of soap (new bars >and used bars with human scent) spread out among the crops, dogs, smelly >clothing left in the fields, radio on at night, a spray called "Repel" which >is made from ammonium soaps sprayed around the tree line, scarecrow balloons, >etc. I even chased them away myself by running after them. I have been >carrying a shotgun lately, but it seems they hide anytime I come around with >the gun. I don't really prefer to hunt them down, since I don't eat meat, >and I enjoy having wild animals around, but this is my financial survival >we're talking about. > >Next season I will invest in an electric fence. I have talked to a few fence >companies and it seems like each company recommends a different fence setup. > Does anybody have any proven fence setups or suggestions. We are probably >going to fence in about a two acre field. > >Does anybody have any other proven techniques which I may try to keep them >out of our fall crops (If we have any fall crops this year due to the >drought). > >Thanks in advance for your help. I am really desperate. > > Sincerely, Troy Bogdan - > troybogdan@aol.com > Pure Earth Organic >Farm, Bridgeville, PA Carol A. Miles, Ph.D. Washington State University Extension Agricultural Systems 360 NW North Street Chehalis, WA 98532 PHONE 360-740-1295 FAX 360-740-1475 milesc@wsu.edu From jiml@ncatfyv.uark.eduThu Sep 7 12:00:22 1995 Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 07:35:41 -0500 (CDT) From: Jim Lukens To: "Sust. Agric. Mailing Group" Subject: Re: DEER CONTROL HELP NEEDED Like several other posters, I have experienced success fencing deer out with electric fence. I don't claim that my method will always work, especially since deer pressure varies so much year to year and place to place. However, for me it has proven to be a successful alternative to a tall permanent fence, which I wanted to avoid if possible. I tried a number of fencing tricks, including baiting the fence and building two fences several feet apart. Success came when I used 1/2" wide electric tape instead of wire. I have only three strands, with the highest about four feet from the ground. The tape is highly visible, and flutters in the slightest breeze. My theory on its effectiveness is that the deer are curious enough about the tape that they investigate rather than just jumping right over, which they clearly could do. This is definitely a psychological barrier, rather than an impenetrable physical one. It might not work if the deer were driven by severe hunger rather than merely the temptation of more tasty treats. However, before this fence, they were devastating our crops, and we see no damage now. -- Jim Lukens ATTRA, National Center for Appropriate Technology Fayetteville, AR 501-442-9824 jiml@ncatfyv.uark.edu