From grargall@alphalink.com.au Thu Mar 11 22:31:21 1999 Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 10:29:58 +1100 From: Argall Family To: sanet-mg@ces.ncsu.edu Subject: RE: UW release: acid linked to soil aging [ The following text is in the "iso-8859-1" character set. ] [ Your display is set for the "US-ASCII" character set. ] [ Some characters may be displayed incorrectly. ] I am newly subscribed to Sanet. I have had a (very small) certified organic orchard in south eastern Australia for some years, previously did some conventional cattle farming, also very small. Steve Diver wrote >1. Why did the researchers suggest that natural sources of nitrogen such as legumes (clovers, vetches, cover crops) cause as much acidification as chemical nitrogen sources (ammonium nitrate, anhydrous ammonia, etc.)??? This generalisation about plant effects does seem to need qualification. Acacia spp actually raise pH while also fixing nitrogen. Hence, the value of allowing/encouraging natural [here in Australia] regeneration of wattle [Acacia] trees in an orchard when it is young. The wattles, a major pioneer species here, grow quickly, most of them would if left alone fall over at age 15-20, but if removed at 3 years or so will noto nly have done a major job opening rock with invasive root systems, but also will (easily observed) produce a nitrogen effect in the root area, for other trees/plants/pasture for a couple of years at least. The rotting root systems also provide soil benefit, apart from the nitrogen nodulation. These trees do not sucker, unlike the nitrogen fixing pioneer Alder. Sadly, these facts on the value of wattles are known better to permaculture people than to conventional farmers here, who clear out wattles (woody weeds) and plant pasture adding superphosphate, believing that the rapid performance of the newly cleared land is due to the phosphorus when it is probably almost entirely due to the clearance of the nitrogen fixers and the sulphuric acid in the super bag. I would think a major distinction should be made between use of legumes as rotation, where they die or are dug back in, and constant maintenance of a leguminous pasture. I have always had the (intuitive) view that no nitrogen fixing plant with any brains, any more than any other organism, is concerned about looking after others rather than itself. Maximum nitrogen effects are likely to arise from allowing a succession away from the nitrogen fixer. Keeping a nitrogen fixer in one place for a long time is likely to have deleterious effects as with any other monoculture. Which is not to say that I disagree with the following, which emphasises that it is not the legumes per se but the cultural practices associated with their use which impact on soil negatively or positively. >If you think [Steve said] about long-term studies and real life situations where side by side farms are managed by organic or conventional methods, I am pretty sure you'd find wide enough differences in soil quality characteristics to disprove the statement that nitrogen from legumes is just as harmful as chemical nitrogen.... especially when viewed from a whole farm perspective, there are humus complexes and soil foodwebs that can bind and fix nitrogen thus preventing its ability to contribute towards soil acidification. Steve also wrote: >Interestingly, compost is known to raise the pH of acid soils closer to neutral, as well as lowering the pH of basic soils closer to neutral. Compost helps soils adjust towards neutral whether the pH is high or low. ...which is why it is useful to regard composting as essentially simply an acceleration, centralisation and intensification of good soil building techniques, with some further health benefits if high temperatures are established. One green manure technique for bringing available calcium into the biological content of the soil, which is inexpensive on a small property, is to spread inexpensive feed oats and cut the young (calcium scavenging) crop, before it goes to seed. Dennis Argall To Unsubscribe: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "unsubscribe sanet-mg". To Subscribe to Digest: Email majordomo@ces.ncsu.edu with the command "subscribe sanet-mg-digest". All messages to sanet-mg are archived at: http://www.sare.org/san/htdocs/hypermail